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| 00:07.44 | mikma | neotron: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f3HDsgLV68&hl=fi |
| 00:09.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-89-17.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 00:16.29 | Shirik | so ScytheBlade1 |
| 00:16.32 | Shirik | get this |
| 00:16.49 | Shirik | the department head contacts me today about a new class they're trying to create |
| 00:17.01 | mikma | haha |
| 00:17.04 | Shirik | he asks "Do you know of any open source code generation tools? I've seen a few but they don't seem that robust" |
| 00:17.07 | mikma | you are fired! |
| 00:17.42 | Kaso | is there some clever way to work out which order to hand in argent tournament writs to best utilise spill over rep that i cant think of? |
| 00:20.24 | tem | always do your lowest rep? |
| 00:21.16 | Lopeppeppy | Then when you max it, do your next lowest? |
| 00:21.19 | ArrowmasterClass | you mean highest? |
| 00:21.20 | Kaso | in considered that but i'd be nice if you could precompute it so you dont have to keep jumping between vendors |
| 00:21.37 | ArrowmasterClass | you dont get spillover if the secondary rep is higher than the primary afaik |
| 00:21.45 | tem | oh? |
| 00:21.50 | tem | I didn't know that |
| 00:21.52 | Kaso | interesting i didnt know that either |
| 00:22.01 | ArrowmasterClass | its been like that forever i think |
| 00:22.16 | ArrowmasterClass | you could try testing it |
| 00:23.26 | Lopeppeppy | Or look up reputation min/maxing strategies, see if anyone's written you a guide. :) |
| 00:24.02 | Kaso | ive written some lua code to try and calculate it, but im not sure if its correct |
| 00:24.24 | Lopeppeppy | Check EJ, they have min-max guides for everythign else. |
| 00:28.43 | Kaso | i think i've got it http://pastey.net/125291 |
| 00:30.44 | Kaso | wait |
| 00:30.55 | Kaso | that doesnt account for spillover working as Arrowmaster |
| 00:30.57 | Kaso | said |
| 00:36.52 | DWSR | ugh |
| 00:36.59 | DWSR | H ToC 10 is actually...hard |
| 00:37.16 | Shirik | meh |
| 00:37.17 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (i=tocohl@69.12.150.49) |
| 00:37.17 | Shirik | it's not bad |
| 00:37.25 | NeoTron | mikma: nice video! |
| 00:38.09 | DWSR | Anyone been having odd problems with Bartender4 recently? |
| 00:38.38 | DWSR | I've been having odd behaviour. I will be doing an instance, and suddenly my 1 bar will be partly bar1, partly bar2, and partly bar3. |
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| 02:13.43 | Rabbitbunny | So... What panels addon are you guys using? FuBar seems to have changed a good bit, and many sites are saying Titan is way better. I just want the basic noob modules, something for gear rating, and a way to get my addons into it... |
| 02:13.47 | Rabbitbunny | Tips? |
| 02:14.23 | Lopeppeppy | I use SL Datatext (IIRC, not able to look it up right now), laid on a kgpanel. |
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| 02:14.44 | Rabbitbunny | looks |
| 02:26.29 | Arrowmaster | nothing has changed with fubar |
| 02:28.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (i=amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 02:29.14 | Amarande | well, that was a bit of a tumble. |
| 02:29.38 | Amarande | I'm still boggling at having been able to 4-man most of the bosses in H UK |
| 02:29.45 | Amarande | I guess I didn't think my gear was that good |
| 02:31.21 | Lopeppeppy | Gear, skill, luck, and good company. |
| 02:31.26 | ZorbaTHut | heroics aren't really hard with the new badge gear, and UK was never one of the toughest ones in the first place |
| 02:31.56 | ZorbaTHut | have fun with 'em, blaze through 'em :D |
| 02:32.35 | Amarande | also, I probably don't need to worry too much about my DPS |
| 02:32.45 | Amarande | if anything, I may have *too* much DPS for typical heroic groups at this point :S |
| 02:33.05 | Amarande | let's just say the tank had a ... hard time holding aggro over me against Keleseth |
| 02:33.34 | Dagmar | You can never have too much DPS |
| 02:33.39 | Lopeppeppy | Tsk tsk, be gentle to your tank. |
| 02:33.46 | Dagmar | ...but people can be idiots and deliver too much DPS |
| 02:33.51 | ZorbaTHut | fuck that, abuse the hell out of your tank. I love it when people push up against me in threat |
| 02:33.54 | ZorbaTHut | it means I won't be bored :D |
| 02:35.17 | Amarande | Peppy: apparently, that's none too easy as aff |
| 02:35.33 | Amarande | not only is aff DPS awesomely high, but there's also all the healing aggro |
| 02:35.47 | Amarande | I think Omen clocked me at about a sustained 3000+ TPS against Keleseth :| |
| 02:36.04 | Dagmar | Don't stare at Omen. |
| 02:36.06 | Dagmar | It's rude. |
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| 02:38.33 | Amarande | yeah, tanks really have it hard as aff |
| 02:38.47 | Amarande | one, aff is one of the highest output DPS specs, for starters |
| 02:38.52 | Amarande | two, aff has a lot of self healing |
| 02:39.14 | Amarande | which means the tank *really* has to be on the ball, because if an aff lock starts taking significant hits at all, especially in 5-mans where the healer has to stay focused on the tank ... yeah. |
| 02:40.14 | Lopeppeppy | Means the lock has to be on the ball too, don't push responsibility for lock threat onto the tank and healer. Locks can *choose* to skip a spell occasionally, to let the tank stay the focus. |
| 02:42.12 | AnduinLothar | i prefer to think of it as casting a survival spell that costs zero mana |
| 02:42.27 | AnduinLothar | channeling spell |
| 02:42.50 | AnduinLothar | longer you cast, the less threat you have |
| 02:43.48 | Amarande | Anduin: but they say you're *not* supposed to let the dots drop off! |
| 02:44.10 | Amarande | That's how we roll as aff. We get a full stack o'doom on the target, and let it stick. :) |
| 02:44.29 | alestane | ...and pull aggro. |
| 02:44.38 | Dagmar | ...then you die and many lulz are had by all. |
| 02:44.38 | Amarande | alestane: the balance is pretty delicate apparently |
| 02:44.55 | alestane | And there is always Soulshatter. |
| 02:45.01 | Amarande | since according to some discussions, if you're aff and *not* pushing the envelope threat-wise, then you're what is called not a very good aff lock. |
| 02:45.16 | Amarande | alestane: actually, that's also been debated/QQ'd about (not sure which is the case) |
| 02:45.25 | Amarande | Soulshatter itself, not really being the issue, but rather its CD |
| 02:45.25 | Lopeppeppy | Pushing the envelope is one thing, getting it shoved over your head and wiping your party is another. |
| 02:45.50 | Amarande | Peppy: not sure there's really a solution to that, unless it's to stick solely to destro in PUGs |
| 02:45.59 | Amarande | remember, as a lock, you can't take back your dots once you've cast them |
| 02:46.14 | tem | I fucking hate faction champions |
| 02:46.16 | Lopeppeppy | ... so count to three before casting that last dot? |
| 02:46.21 | tem | this kind of shit has ZERO business in pve |
| 02:46.24 | Amarande | so in order to consistently not suck and not pull aggro both, you have to be intimately familiar with your tank's TPS |
| 02:46.38 | Amarande | which is not really something that's the case in a pug |
| 02:47.01 | alestane | Affliation might have a reduced affliction threat talent (I have 21 points there, not a total expert), but generally I find that rather than having a passive moderate threat reduction, 'locks have an active massive threat dump. |
| 02:47.07 | ZorbaTHut | tem, why not? it's still a pve fight, just a slightly more hectic one |
| 02:47.08 | alestane | Affliction* |
| 02:47.12 | Lopeppeppy | So... don't cast the spell OMG immediately. Give it an extra beat. That's actually smarter playing than causing wipes. |
| 02:47.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: re, earlier: what? |
| 02:47.19 | ZorbaTHut | it's not like the enemies are going to adapt to your strategy or anything |
| 02:47.35 | AnduinLothar | or ARE they |
| 02:47.43 | Amarande | My usual pattern is to get corruption and haunt going, apply UA and CoA |
| 02:47.59 | tem | ZorbaTHut, no threat |
| 02:48.00 | Amarande | then spam shadowbolt until something (usually UA, as that one's not instant) is about to need refreshing |
| 02:48.08 | Amarande | refresh it, spam shadowbolts until something else needs refreshing |
| 02:48.12 | tem | excessive and random CC |
| 02:48.14 | tem | it's annoying |
| 02:48.15 | ZorbaTHut | tem, "threat" does not a PvE fight make |
| 02:48.17 | tem | and not worth the time |
| 02:48.19 | Amarande | (or until the mob is below 25%, in which case one switches from SB to Drain Soul) |
| 02:48.54 | Amarande | oh, yeah, I really need to see if there's an addon that specifically suppresses the "you have too many" message for soul shards and only soul shards |
| 02:49.13 | Amarande | that's the other nagging thing about aff, you use drain soul so much that you're ALWAYS hearing "I can't carry any more of those!" after like, every mob :P |
| 02:49.26 | alestane | I have error speech turned off. |
| 02:49.53 | Adys | This channel is not available in your country. |
| 02:49.55 | Adys | what a fail |
| 02:50.07 | Amarande | Adys: which? |
| 02:50.11 | Adys | bbc |
| 02:51.15 | Amarande | Adys: Australia, right? |
| 02:51.39 | tem | ZorbaTHut, I'm a tank. Any fight I can't tank and controll it pisses me off and is overly frustrating |
| 02:52.03 | Amarande | alestane: there actually *is* a threat reduction talent in affliction |
| 02:52.16 | Adys | Amarande: huh? |
| 02:52.17 | Dagmar | Amarande: Better. There are addons that dispose of the surplus |
| 02:52.18 | Amarande | however, the standard established optimal DPS affliction build doesn't include it |
| 02:52.20 | Adys | bcc uk |
| 02:52.24 | Jerub | tem: does resillience gear help on the faction champions? |
| 02:52.41 | Amarande | Adys: I'm trying to remember which country it is you're in that you don't get BBC in |
| 02:52.43 | tem | no |
| 02:52.48 | Adys | I'm in greece |
| 02:52.55 | Adys | http://youtube.com/user/BBC |
| 02:52.56 | Amarande | ah, why did I think you were australian, heh |
| 02:53.01 | Jerub | i'm the australian. |
| 02:53.06 | ZorbaTHut | tem, so am I. You're not doing it right. :P |
| 02:53.22 | alestane | Amarande: Yes, and I think basically every lock with over fove points in Affliction takes Improved Drain Soul for the mana refill. |
| 02:53.25 | ZorbaTHut | as a warrior tank I can lock down pretty much any target I choose. I pick the high-dps guys and the fight's significantly easier. |
| 02:53.41 | alestane | over four* |
| 02:53.51 | Dagmar | I'll stick with shooting anyone that looks like they could heal people first |
| 02:54.10 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, that's great for DPS, but I don't do a lot of damage and my time is better spent keeping our healers alive ;) |
| 02:54.30 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, it helps in the sense that it keeps people from being critted. Which is useful. |
| 02:55.14 | tem | ZorbaTHut, I'm a DK |
| 02:55.20 | Lopeppeppy | kill the one in the dress first |
| 02:55.20 | tem | I get chains of ice |
| 02:55.21 | Dagmar | I figure the NPC healers are at least as good as players, and they don't have lag or typos |
| 02:55.23 | tem | which gets dispelled |
| 02:55.41 | Dagmar | Plus, they hit like girls. :) |
| 02:55.50 | ZorbaTHut | tem, death grip, at the very least |
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| 02:56.37 | Mikk | and just mashing it in the face to keep it interested in you |
| 02:56.38 | Amarande | alestane: actually, IDS is apparently considered a heavily substandard talent for group content |
| 02:56.40 | tem | and then the motherfucker shadowsteps away |
| 02:56.45 | tem | I fucking hate this fight |
| 02:56.46 | Amarande | it's pretty clear why, actually |
| 02:56.49 | ZorbaTHut | tem, so you death grip it again once the cooldown is up |
| 02:57.02 | Mikk | and tell the druids to stop sucking and get some FF on the rogue |
| 02:57.12 | Amarande | IIRC, the mana regain from IDS *only* counts *if* the actual final blow to the mob is from either Drain Soul itself or from one of your own dots. |
| 02:57.23 | Amarande | It's not enough for the mob to simply die during Drain Soul. |
| 02:57.32 | ZorbaTHut | you can chaintaunt it several times before it becomes immune, and then you can just target someone else and chaintaunt *them* |
| 02:57.38 | ZorbaTHut | yes, your job's harder, but it's still doable. |
| 02:57.54 | Amarande | In group content, you're going to be sharing damage dealing with at least three people, so what's the real chance you're actually going to finish a given mob and be able to take advantage of the mana regain? |
| 02:57.58 | ZorbaTHut | (and yeah, death knight tanks don't have an obvious job in that fight) |
| 02:58.14 | alestane | I know that was the case at one time, double-checking the text. |
| 02:58.30 | ZorbaTHut | doesn't your ghoul have a stun? |
| 02:58.39 | alestane | Yes, still says "if the target is killed by you while you drain its soul." |
| 02:58.41 | Mikk | if you're unholy |
| 02:58.59 | Amarande | The other thing is that you don't really need that mana recharge nearly as much now because you WILL be using Life Tap at least once every 40 seconds virtually regardless of your actual mana situation |
| 02:59.02 | Mikk | any other spec and the ghoul is just a dumb guardian that does what it feels like |
| 02:59.31 | Amarande | since letting the GoLT buff drop off is simply stupid |
| 02:59.55 | Amarande | I suppose it could also have to do with the tank. |
| 03:00.04 | Mikk | and yeah imp drain soul is something you use for levelling |
| 03:00.09 | Amarande | Tanks in heroics after all tend to come in two categories |
| 03:00.20 | Mikk | if you have a healer, Just Life Tap |
| 03:00.34 | Dagmar | hahahah |
| 03:00.35 | Amarande | a) tanks that are still gearing up themselves, and thus naturally can't put out enough TPS simply because they're not as progressed as you |
| 03:00.40 | Lopeppeppy | You make Healer Peppy cry. |
| 03:00.47 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=KarlKFI@ip68-231-217-61.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 03:00.53 | Amarande | (for reference, my progression point is roughly where I'm beginning to think I should start to at -least- do naxx.) |
| 03:00.55 | Lopeppeppy | And thank god it's my bedtime. :P Y'all have a good night. |
| 03:00.59 | Amarande | Night Peppy :) |
| 03:00.59 | Dagmar | I would describe them differently. |
| 03:01.02 | Mikk | if they can't spare a gcd to fill up your tap, the group needs to stop sucking :P |
| 03:01.04 | Dagmar | a) Tanks with clue |
| 03:01.09 | Dagmar | b) Tanks with gear |
| 03:01.16 | Amarande | b) tanks that are in high end gear |
| 03:01.19 | Amarande | now |
| 03:01.20 | Dagmar | a disunion b |
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| 03:01.35 | Mikk | lies i have both |
| 03:01.36 | Amarande | I don't know how much of an issue it is in WotLK compared to BC, as I haven't actually tried to tank in WotLK |
| 03:01.55 | Amarande | but I know at least in BC, being overgeared for the content you're tanking is a -severe- handicap |
| 03:02.04 | Mikk | though it's true that overgeared tanks tend to just chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge |
| 03:02.10 | Jerub | I've tanked in low end groups, and only sometimes have i had the 4k+ damage coming from the hunter or rogue beat out my threat. |
| 03:02.23 | Jerub | this is while i was first gearing for tank |
| 03:02.33 | Amarande | Jerub: is being overgeared still the kiss of rage/mana starvation death like it was in BC? |
| 03:02.38 | Mikk | Amarande: nah, my warrior alt is in ~t9 gear and has no problem tanking regular heroics |
| 03:03.00 | Jerub | Amarande: i'm not overgeared |
| 03:03.08 | Amarande | Mikk: btw, healers aren't supposed to need to spare a GCD to fill up a lock's tap unless the lock is destro or demo |
| 03:03.13 | Jerub | Amarande: but i'm never not on full rage when tanking |
| 03:03.19 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, nah, it's not that bad anymore |
| 03:03.29 | Mikk | Jerub then you need to HS & cleave more =) |
| 03:03.31 | ZorbaTHut | you get enough rage off weapon damage to make up for it. it's not great, but it's not terrible |
| 03:03.32 | Amarande | Aff locks are expected to regain that health on their own via all the self healing capabilities attached to aff |
| 03:03.33 | Jerub | except between fights clearly. |
| 03:03.35 | Jerub | Mikk: bear |
| 03:03.39 | Mikk | ah |
| 03:04.00 | Amarande | although, this is also one of the contributors to the threat threat, too |
| 03:04.01 | *** join/#wowuidev felipe` (n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se) |
| 03:04.26 | Mikk | Amarande true but aff locks suck ass in 5mans to begin with :P |
| 03:04.26 | Amarande | because aff has so much self healing attached, I'm starting to get the distinct and sinking feeling that our TPS:DPS ratio is significantly greater than one |
| 03:04.42 | Amarande | in fact, probably higher than any class and build but, well, actual tanking builds |
| 03:05.04 | Mikk | And don't worry. Overheal doesn't cause aggro, and healing is 1:10 |
| 03:05.19 | tem | I hate this fight so much |
| 03:05.25 | Jerub | tem: would you like a hug? |
| 03:05.30 | Amarande | Mikk: yeah, hence my noting earlier that with an aff lock in the party, as tank, you really, really need to be much more careful to keep the lock from getting hurt |
| 03:05.35 | ZorbaTHut | I do tend to vigilance aff locks when I can, since their threat does tend to be astronomical |
| 03:05.38 | Jerub | :( i've not yet done toc10 :( |
| 03:05.39 | tem | no, I would like my gear with green Heroic text on it please |
| 03:06.00 | ZorbaTHut | tem, 10 or 25? |
| 03:06.00 | tem | 25 |
| 03:06.01 | Jerub | :( i've not yet done toc25 :( |
| 03:06.03 | Amarande | the more the lock gets hurt, the more Corruption and Haunt end up actually healing the lock, and the more threat that gets done. |
| 03:06.08 | Mikk | That's just because aff locks tabdot all the off targets because they know the main target will die before their dots start ticking :P |
| 03:06.11 | ZorbaTHut | we are having trouble getting past NB on 25-heroic :( |
| 03:06.26 | Amarande | Mikk: actually, the main encounter I had difficulty with aggro with tonight was Keleseth |
| 03:06.43 | Jerub | what frustrates me is that my guild won't do toc10 yet, and pugs demand you know all the fights |
| 03:06.50 | Amarande | although, granted, we had some ... issues during that fight |
| 03:06.56 | Dagmar | You could always read WoWWiki |
| 03:06.57 | Amarande | the main healer's connection was severely unstable |
| 03:07.15 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, why not? |
| 03:07.20 | Amarande | in fact, soon afterwards, the main healer disconnected completely and we had to four man the rest, by having the shadowpriest in the party switch to his holy spec |
| 03:07.21 | Mikk | Amarande: yeah rage driven tanks get starved there because the fucker never hits |
| 03:07.33 | Mikk | but then again the fucker never hits |
| 03:07.38 | ZorbaTHut | also, the fights aren't really all that hard. watch tankspot videos, then just claim you know them |
| 03:07.39 | Dagmar | Mikk: Tank pantsless |
| 03:07.41 | Mikk | so doesnt matter if he's nuking you or the tank :P |
| 03:07.47 | Amarande | then again, we must have been doing something right |
| 03:07.55 | Amarande | since we DID manage to 4-man the rest of the instance with no real boss trouble afterwards |
| 03:08.08 | Amarande | and as for Keleseth, we actually managed to get On The Rocks, and I'm not sure we were actually attempting it |
| 03:08.09 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: lameness. |
| 03:08.57 | Jerub | not as bad as the 'must pst achievement' bullshit i sometimes see. |
| 03:09.01 | Jerub | but lame :( |
| 03:09.05 | Amarande | the original group combo was ... tankadin, holydin, shadowie, hunter and afflock |
| 03:09.12 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, three solutions to that |
| 03:09.17 | Amarande | note: please do not confuse afflock with AFLAC |
| 03:09.24 | ZorbaTHut | "here's my achievement, but I've got it cleared on another character" |
| 03:09.33 | ZorbaTHut | "here's my achievement, I generated it with one of the tools that generates full achievements" |
| 03:09.43 | Amarande | o.0 |
| 03:09.48 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: you can do that? |
| 03:09.51 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 03:09.52 | ZorbaTHut | "here's my achievement, you're not going to click on it anyway so I'm just going to link you an empty achievement and you're not going to realize it because you're an idiot" |
| 03:09.52 | Amarande | you mean it's actually a trivial thing to do with addons to lie about your achievements? :| |
| 03:10.03 | Dagmar | You dont' even need addons if you can type. |
| 03:10.11 | ZorbaTHut | yep, you can generate false achievments |
| 03:10.17 | Jerub | bows |
| 03:10.20 | Amarande | Dagmar: c'mon, who actually remembers all the stupidly long text strings you need to link something by manually typing it |
| 03:10.21 | Dagmar | Drop a world first level 80 blood elf achievement in /2 as a dwarf and watch the freaking out |
| 03:10.22 | ZorbaTHut | bonus points for dating the false achievement from before WoW classic was released |
| 03:10.23 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: master, teach me how |
| 03:10.35 | ZorbaTHut | google, I don't remember the details. I haven't had to do it myself :) |
| 03:11.03 | tem | ASLKFHALSKDHJASLDKFHASDF |
| 03:11.07 | ZorbaTHut | but yeah, I've heard blatant lying can actually get you into most groups |
| 03:11.08 | Amarande | yeah, I've seen a few groups (especially toc10/25 pugs) demand achievement lists |
| 03:11.15 | Amarande | and I'm like wtf |
| 03:11.18 | ZorbaTHut | "What's your defense?" "1300." |
| 03:11.24 | Amarande | because I thought meter maids were bad enough, and now this? |
| 03:11.25 | ZorbaTHut | "What's your AP?" "119 million." |
| 03:11.27 | Dagmar | Definitely throw in a world first for the opposing faction then |
| 03:11.31 | Amarande | speaking of which, meter maids seem to be making a comeback |
| 03:11.35 | Amarande | and it's not just TOC5 heroic either |
| 03:11.40 | ZorbaTHut | "How much DPS do you do?" "Once I one-shot Algalon." |
| 03:11.54 | Amarande | I saw someone demand something like 2.5-3.5k DPS for freaking HEROIC AHN'KAHET |
| 03:12.01 | roastx | how fat are you , 500 lbs |
| 03:12.04 | roastx | ok yer in |
| 03:12.05 | Amarande | and I'm definitely WTFing at this point |
| 03:12.10 | Amarande | because, let's put it this way |
| 03:12.11 | Jerub | Amarande: that's insane. |
| 03:12.13 | ZorbaTHut | roast, exactly. make up a number, you're set |
| 03:12.16 | Amarande | Ahn'Kahet was the FIRST heroic I EVER did |
| 03:12.20 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, some people ask that because they just want to blitz through the heroic |
| 03:12.26 | Amarande | back when I was in quest blues and greens and getting my first real gear |
| 03:12.32 | Dagmar | I'd say most of them ask becusae they're idiots |
| 03:12.33 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, I do heroics with all Ulduar/ToC-geared members, and it's awesome, we just carve through |
| 03:12.39 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: ? |
| 03:12.40 | Jerub | oh, btw, what's a good spellpower figure for a druid healer? |
| 03:12.41 | roastx | i wonder what 500lbs feels like |
| 03:12.47 | ZorbaTHut | once we got to the first boss before we realized we forgot to bring a healer. that sort of thing. |
| 03:12.48 | Jerub | I've been trying to find information and can't see much |
| 03:12.51 | Amarande | although, granted, we *did* epicfail on the shroom boss when I was on that run. |
| 03:12.58 | Amarande | Zorba: doh |
| 03:13.02 | roastx | probably like jabba the hut |
| 03:13.13 | ZorbaTHut | it wasn't so bad, I thought we had a healer because I'd invited a dude who almost always heals |
| 03:13.17 | ScytheBlade1 | You said something about code generation earlier |
| 03:13.18 | ZorbaTHut | he'd just dualspecced DPS |
| 03:13.20 | ScytheBlade1 | And I was confused |
| 03:13.23 | ZorbaTHut | we told him to switch to heals, he did :P |
| 03:13.27 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: that's lolworthy |
| 03:13.37 | Dagmar | roastx: Like having a 300 pound guy fall on you |
| 03:13.45 | Amarande | roastx: I've known some folks who weighed that much, and many of them were quite happy and apart from perhaps knees, pretty healthy people too |
| 03:13.53 | ZorbaTHut | although honestly I'm pretty sure I could run most heroics heal-less at this point |
| 03:13.58 | Amarande | but let's face it |
| 03:14.01 | Amarande | knees are design fail anyway |
| 03:14.01 | Amarande | heh |
| 03:14.21 | ZorbaTHut | I botched a Mal'Ganis pull a while back and he one-shot the healer as an opening move, we won anyway. I've got better gear now and so do my guildies :P |
| 03:14.31 | Jerub | I did 3 heroics in a row, ended up with the same priest in all 3 (all separate pugs). I DPS'd, Heal'd, and DPS'd, he DPS'd, DPS'd and Heal'd. That was weird. |
| 03:14.37 | ZorbaTHut | in fact I was still in Naxx gear back then |
| 03:14.51 | Amarande | I need to start progressing into naxx here. |
| 03:15.04 | Jerub | Amarande: do you know the naxx fights? |
| 03:15.05 | ZorbaTHut | naxx is pretty fun |
| 03:15.10 | Jerub | I did my first naxx nearly-full-clear last week. |
| 03:15.14 | Amarande | Jerub: some of them I'm pretty read up on |
| 03:15.15 | Dagmar | Amarande: You *will* want to read up on them |
| 03:15.18 | Amarande | other ones I'm rather fuzzy on |
| 03:15.28 | Dagmar | Four Horsemen for instance |
| 03:15.30 | ZorbaTHut | honestly, they're all fun. the only boss fight in the game I don't like is Malygos |
| 03:15.37 | ZorbaTHut | and that's because all the moving shit starts getting me motion-sick :/ |
| 03:15.38 | A-KO | I rather liked the maly fight |
| 03:15.43 | Jerub | I'm missing heigan for my achievemnet because i released like a noob and didn't get the kill credit. |
| 03:15.49 | A-KO | I wish they had a more hardcore version of the heigan dance |
| 03:15.56 | Jerub | otoh, i played men in hats through vent for half that fight. |
| 03:16.09 | Jerub | :D |
| 03:16.14 | Amarande | A-KO: you want something more hardcore choreographed than heigan? |
| 03:16.17 | Amarande | we call that fucking netherspite |
| 03:16.19 | Dagmar | They need a smoke grenade vending machine outside Heigan's room |
| 03:16.21 | Amarande | note the presence of the F word there |
| 03:16.40 | Amarande | because netherspite is an annoying and totally bloody irritating piece of shit that makes me glad kara is no longer current content |
| 03:16.46 | A-KO | Amarande: no, I mean something that requires the whole raid to constantly keep moving and to kill players instantly if they fuck up :P |
| 03:16.55 | Dagmar | Amarande: There's that boss in the underwater place in Zangarmarsh |
| 03:17.08 | ZorbaTHut | I always wanted to do Netherspite, he looked awesome |
| 03:17.10 | Dagmar | The nice one where four guys have to grab a whatsis, and then toss it to four other guys, and then they toss it at the boss |
| 03:17.21 | Amarande | Zorba: Netherspite is really irritating. Trust me. |
| 03:17.34 | A-KO | it was a dumb fight |
| 03:17.36 | A-KO | but easy enough |
| 03:17.41 | Amarande | Every time we did it on Quel'dorei, people would either get caught by the stupid black holes |
| 03:17.48 | A-KO | that's their fault |
| 03:17.56 | Amarande | or really the bigger problem was |
| 03:17.58 | A-KO | it's not like they were hard to move out of |
| 03:17.59 | Dagmar | The first time I did it, the red beam spawned right behind me |
| 03:18.07 | A-KO | blue beam ftw |
| 03:18.11 | Dagmar | I was soooo happy. |
| 03:18.19 | Amarande | do the beam spawn spots rotate depending on netherspite's facing or such each time, perhaps? |
| 03:18.22 | Jerub | MOAR DOTS |
| 03:18.36 | A-KO | no |
| 03:18.36 | A-KO | they were constant every time afaik |
| 03:18.36 | Dagmar | "F**K. I AM SCREWED!" |
| 03:18.36 | tem | omfg |
| 03:18.36 | tem | make it stop |
| 03:18.44 | Amarande | because our biggest problem was always that we would always end up not near enough to the beams to catch them when the beam phase started again |
| 03:18.45 | A-KO | it's been a long time since I did that fought though so |
| 03:18.48 | Dagmar | I still can't believe I managed to hold off hitting FD until the tank got in front of me |
| 03:18.51 | Amarande | I remember the end of my last attempt against netherspite |
| 03:19.03 | Dagmar | Serious rabbit-in-the-headlights action there |
| 03:19.07 | A-KO | lol Dagmar |
| 03:19.09 | Amarande | it consisted of my last gasps being trying to drag myself desperately into the green beam because the person who was supposed to had already died |
| 03:19.10 | Amarande | then we wiped |
| 03:19.32 | Dagmar | A-KO: Yeah sitting there watching that guy during the setup and then having him just come straight for me. *wilt* |
| 03:19.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 03:20.04 | Amarande | really that was the biggest problem we had |
| 03:20.07 | Amarande | someone always died |
| 03:20.15 | Amarande | and netherspite is one of those ones where one death usually guarantees a wipe |
| 03:20.25 | A-KO | if people died they failed |
| 03:20.28 | Dagmar | Interesting |
| 03:20.53 | Dagmar | We had two people on freaking satellite connections the last time. Very clearly they ate the floor. |
| 03:20.56 | Amarande | and actually I seem to recall those black holes being pretty big |
| 03:21.14 | Amarande | death often came because a black hole spawned right on top of someone with too much debuff from the beam |
| 03:21.18 | Dagmar | Yay for HughesNet's extra 2000ms latency |
| 03:21.26 | Jerub | so how on earth do you get the voa achievemnet for killing all 3 bosses within 60 seconds? |
| 03:21.36 | Jerub | excessive kiting? |
| 03:21.40 | Dagmar | Jerub: By having special pants made to handle your giant testicles |
| 03:21.54 | Amarande | Jerub: you get it now probably, I'm sure |
| 03:21.58 | Jerub | Dagmar: [x] special pants. |
| 03:22.08 | Jerub | Amarande: APART from hacking it |
| 03:22.13 | Dagmar | I think they put that one in there to make people say, "Wait... you do WHAT now?!?" |
| 03:22.16 | Amarande | since any way to do it that you can probably think of off the top of your head that isn't insanely evil |
| 03:22.22 | Amarande | is probably an abuse and will get nerfed |
| 03:22.35 | Amarande | it's probably eventually going to be up there for hard with beating volazj in 2 minutes or whatever it was |
| 03:22.57 | Dagmar | Just getting the first two close together is a disturbing thing to try |
| 03:23.03 | Jerub | is there a way to find out if it's ever been done, and by whom? |
| 03:23.14 | Dagmar | If someone does it, it'll be on YouTube |
| 03:23.23 | Amarande | yay youtube |
| 03:23.35 | Amarande | kicks youtube like a disobedient dog. |
| 03:23.39 | Jerub | how do people take those videos? are they all taken by people with macs? |
| 03:23.44 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 03:23.46 | Amarande | people really need to move to viddler or dailymotion for wow videos :| |
| 03:23.56 | Dagmar | Xfire's client actually does a decent job of recording, but you will need LOTS OF DISK |
| 03:23.56 | Amarande | youtube videos are so low res, even in "HD" |
| 03:24.12 | Amarande | like, gee thanks for showing us a strategy you can barely really even see what they're doing because the RESOLUTION IS FUCKING CRAP |
| 03:24.24 | Dagmar | ...it does basically almost no compression of what it records on the fly |
| 03:24.40 | Dagmar | Amarande: That would be because people use horrible encoding params |
| 03:24.44 | Amarande | that's like making a video about how to do something in RL |
| 03:24.49 | Dagmar | ...and then it gets reencoded to Flash because they were dim |
| 03:24.53 | Amarande | and misting up the inside of the cam lens before recording :P |
| 03:25.13 | Jerub | lol |
| 03:25.30 | Amarande | well, youtube also *does* seem to have crappier resolution than viddler or dailymotion |
| 03:25.48 | Jerub | http://tinyurl.com/nama5n <- this is a video i took on my mac |
| 03:26.04 | Amarande | Jerub: before I click, is this a music video of Never Gonna Give You Up? :) |
| 03:26.10 | Jerub | Amarande: no. |
| 03:26.21 | Jerub | Amarande: it's the murloc suit and dance. |
| 03:27.05 | Jerub | I made the frame small so the framerate owuld be alright, then recorded it. |
| 03:27.22 | Amarande | hey, I remember that quest. :) |
| 03:27.38 | Dagmar | Yes. The one I complained to GMs about |
| 03:27.44 | Jerub | Dagmar: hm? why? |
| 03:27.46 | Dagmar | Everywhere else those murlocs RUN LIKE THE WIND |
| 03:27.52 | Dagmar | _Everywhere_ else. |
| 03:28.09 | Dagmar | Mr. I-Need-An-Escort-Murloc however, has all the time in the world to mosey out |
| 03:28.21 | Jerub | Dagmar: lol |
| 03:28.39 | Dagmar | I was like, just once, I'd like to see an escort mob say "OMG we're in danger! Let's get out of here" and then _haul ass_ |
| 03:28.46 | Jerub | is tempted to record guild raids. |
| 03:28.47 | Dagmar | I figured a murloc would be that escort |
| 03:29.21 | Jerub | because that recording is waaay better quality than what i see on youtube. |
| 03:29.56 | Amarande | Dagmar: actually, that was the PROBLEM with escort quests in the past |
| 03:30.04 | Amarande | the escort mob would indeed haul ass |
| 03:30.28 | Amarande | often so fast that you would inevitably get mobbed to death by mobs along the way because you aggroed them and did not have time to fight them without failing the quest due to the escort getting too far away :P |
| 03:30.29 | Dagmar | I'd take it |
| 03:30.32 | Dagmar | I can do DPS on the fly |
| 03:30.41 | Dagmar | I eat that stuff for breakfast |
| 03:30.46 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: use the fullscreen mode on yt and you get the full res the uploader uploaded in... |
| 03:31.26 | Gnarfoz | so yes indeed, most yt videos with bad quality, it's the uploader's fault ;\ |
| 03:32.13 | Dagmar | If you can stand the excess emo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs79_5n848Q is pretty good proof that you can indeed get decent quality video on YouTube |
| 03:35.31 | Jerub | http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/earth-wind-and-fire-%2810-player%29-by-vanquish/?PHPSESSID=pgn3tm2216ljjpqgg5m4j8i902 |
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| 03:38.32 | Dagmar | Something is wrong. |
| 03:38.49 | Dagmar | Who gave Zero Punctuation a fistful of valium? |
| 03:39.04 | Dagmar | Fess up! |
| 03:39.26 | Jerub | also, what's a 'clicker' |
| 03:39.52 | Dagmar | Someone who's permanently slow (in more than one way) because they forever move their mouse pointer to icons and click on them. |
| 03:40.04 | Jerub | Dagmar: i wasn't me! last thing I said to yatzhee was to appologise for my fat fuck of a friend that had just called him a cockhead. |
| 03:40.15 | A-KO | Dagmar: his review of batman was.....good |
| 03:40.15 | A-KO | lol |
| 03:40.18 | Dagmar | Regardless of what they want to claim about clicking, it DOES hurt you |
| 03:40.25 | Dagmar | A-KO: Yes, I know. Someone has drugged him. |
| 03:40.37 | A-KO | maybe, for once, he just likes the game :P |
| 03:41.06 | Dagmar | Yeah, right. |
| 03:42.55 | Dagmar | If that's true I should be checking CNN for news that Dick Cheney released all his communications in the last ten years under FOIA willingly |
| 03:43.31 | Dagmar | ...or like, a big gaping hole in my mirror from where I accidentally fell through it into opposite-land this morning while shaving. |
| 03:43.43 | ZorbaTHut | in related news, Blizzard has decided to open-source World of Warcraft under the BSD license |
| 03:43.53 | Dagmar | Yeah that would be a natural follow up |
| 03:44.26 | kd3 | wait, wait. didn't he like portal? |
| 03:44.45 | Jerub | hehe, never saw this before: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=17 |
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| 03:48.34 | Dagmar | I think the publishing company slipped a hypnotoad into the Arkham box |
| 03:51.06 | Dagmar | He spends less than a minute talking about portal |
| 03:51.44 | Dagmar | I think he picked up the Swine Flu and is delirious with fever |
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| 04:03.13 | tem | I never want to do this encounter again |
| 04:03.14 | tem | ever |
| 04:03.38 | Dagmar | Then tell the guy in the van you have all the candy you need next time |
| 04:03.41 | Jerub | tem: did you finish it? |
| 04:03.47 | tem | no |
| 04:03.56 | tem | we aren't making any progress |
| 04:04.00 | Jerub | how many hundred g in expenses so far? |
| 04:04.08 | tem | none |
| 04:04.14 | tem | guild pays all raiding expenses |
| 04:04.24 | tem | probably the only reason I just tolerated 25 wipes to that bullshit |
| 04:06.53 | tem | given that a full repair is about 135g for us and 25 wipes is almost 3 full repairs we're talking like 400g per person in repairs |
| 04:07.07 | tem | not including flasks and fish feasts |
| 04:07.14 | ZorbaTHut | 10,000g in repairs total :D |
| 04:07.15 | tem | and potions |
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| 04:37.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
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| 04:54.11 | Rabbitbunny | Well, this isn't going as planned. |
| 04:56.04 | Jerub | Rabbitbunny: m? |
| 04:58.19 | Rabbitbunny | It turns out I hate windows more than I remembered, and I haven't succeeded in getting a panel addon to show my bs, aside from the point that I'm not tooo happy about rewriting my BS, or learning the new math. |
| 04:58.49 | Rabbitbunny | Things changed in the last year, And I'm catching up. |
| 04:59.39 | Rabbitbunny | oh, and PuTTy sucks ass. |
| 05:00.08 | Rabbitbunny | cries into his [Linked Shoulderpads] |
| 05:02.46 | Arrowmaster | putty is awesome except for a few minor bugs |
| 05:03.04 | Jerub | Rabbitbunny: man, i'm so glad i play wow on a mac |
| 05:05.35 | Rabbitbunny | putty pales in comparison to openssh, but it's goos for windows. |
| 05:05.47 | ScytheBlade1 | what exactly sucks about putty? |
| 05:05.53 | Jerub | man, the problems i've had with openssh |
| 05:06.08 | Rabbitbunny | it breaks screen. |
| 05:06.15 | ScytheBlade1 | er, mine doesn't |
| 05:06.34 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 |
| 05:06.36 | Shirik | I was saying |
| 05:06.45 | Rabbitbunny | I've got no tab complete, no last entry, no quick windows switches, and the status bar is glitchy. |
| 05:06.46 | Shirik | department head today asked me if I knew any good open source automatic code generation tools |
| 05:06.52 | Sentri | I have putty at home and on my mobile, never had any problems |
| 05:06.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Rabbitbunny: I have all of those with putty |
| 05:07.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: and I have no idea what that relates to at all |
| 05:07.12 | Rabbitbunny | ScytheBlade1: WHat's the host box? |
| 05:07.12 | Shirik | starfish! |
| 05:07.23 | ScytheBlade1 | I see @ Shirik |
| 05:07.39 | Shirik | p.s. Putty works perfectly fine form e too |
| 05:07.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Rabbitbunny: cent, fedora, gentoo, debian, and iirc openbsd |
| 05:07.45 | Arrowmaster | Rabbitbunny: the problem is likely with the system you are connecting to |
| 05:07.59 | Shirik | on centos and gentoo |
| 05:08.02 | Rabbitbunny | Yes, EXactly. UBUntu. |
| 05:08.08 | Arrowmaster | see tahts your problem |
| 05:08.14 | Arrowmaster | you are using a shitty distro |
| 05:08.15 | Rabbitbunny | also, Capslock is freaking out. |
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| 05:08.47 | tem | ugh |
| 05:08.54 | Rabbitbunny | Yeah, but i knew it was shitty, putty should work around. |
| 05:08.55 | tem | linux distro elitism |
| 05:10.00 | Rabbitbunny | ubuntu-server, web for noobs. |
| 05:10.09 | Sentri | ubuntu at home and debian on my server |
| 05:10.19 | Arrowmaster | Rabbitbunny: putty is a terminal emulator, it cant add workarounds for every buggy ass patch ubuntu decideds to apply because then it would break things for other distros |
| 05:10.44 | Arrowmaster | the server should follow the terminal specs being used |
| 05:11.10 | Rabbitbunny | YOu're going at this wrong. YOu're being logical, I"m hating windows. |
| 05:11.18 | Arrowmaster | so stop using it |
| 05:11.20 | Arrowmaster | i did |
| 05:11.48 | Rabbitbunny | YEah, low-spec box, no Wow in VM in distro |
| 05:12.03 | Arrowmaster | use wine? |
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| 05:12.15 | Rabbitbunny | wont run, nvidia card. |
| 05:12.20 | Arrowmaster | .... |
| 05:12.27 | Rabbitbunny | old nvidia card. |
| 05:12.27 | Arrowmaster | it runs great for me with an nvidia card |
| 05:12.40 | Arrowmaster | now if you had an ati card you might be fucked |
| 05:12.47 | Rabbitbunny | very old nvidia card. |
| 05:12.51 | Sentri | wine + wow = bad, at least on my machine |
| 05:13.02 | Rabbitbunny | FX5200 64MB. |
| 05:13.02 | Arrowmaster | yet you can run wow using it in windows? |
| 05:13.05 | Jerub | wine+wow is bad on my computer too. intel graphics. |
| 05:13.23 | Jerub | i run it, and i get a blank screen and a little bit of music followed by nothing |
| 05:13.25 | Arrowmaster | i have an fx5200 around here somewhere, i swear ive played wow on it |
| 05:13.42 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: under wine? |
| 05:13.47 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 05:13.50 | Rabbitbunny | if you do it under linux, and you get the patch screen to work, that'd be great. |
| 05:13.51 | Sentri | fps is like 1/4 of that of windows |
| 05:14.10 | Rabbitbunny | i'm doing 17fps under xp pro. |
| 05:14.59 | Sentri | ~40-60 on vista |
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| 05:15.26 | Torhal | Rabbitbunny: My FX5200 is 256MB and runs WoW just fine on WinXP. |
| 05:15.44 | Rabbitbunny | double chacks his specs |
| 05:16.24 | Rabbitbunny | Yeah, 64mb all day long. |
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| 05:18.21 | Jerub | might have to do with external monitor actually. |
| 05:19.25 | Torhal | Rabbitbunny: Ugh. I thought the 256MB was rather universal, but apparently it depended on the manufacturer. |
| 05:21.42 | Rabbitbunny | I GOT IT ON SALE AT WAL_MART> |
| 05:21.52 | Rabbitbunny | ERR< STUCK SHIFT KEY> |
| 05:22.01 | Arrowmaster | i got mine on sale from bestbuy |
| 05:22.14 | Jerub | i was given mine by ibm. |
| 05:22.32 | Arrowmaster | then somehow i lost the tnt2 that it replaced and ended up with an fx6200 that i dont know where the fuck it came from |
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| 05:36.47 | Torhal | Rabbitbunny: PuTTY works fine with screen, so long as you set up your terminal emulation properly. |
| 05:37.52 | Torhal | I have no idea how I just saw that in my scrollback and missed it before. Wow. |
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| 06:14.40 | Shirik | tackles Cide |
| 06:16.37 | TC-Away | trips Shirik |
| 06:17.08 | Shirik | :( |
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| 06:44.06 | ScytheBlade1 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19820527626&sid=1 |
| 06:44.09 | ScytheBlade1 | He's a classy poster. |
| 06:45.06 | Rabbitbunny | JjjjjJJJcvvvhttp://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19820527626&sid=1 |
| 06:45.10 | Rabbitbunny | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19820527626&sid=1 |
| 06:45.14 | Rabbitbunny | Sorry. |
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| 06:46.08 | Shirik | wow. |
| 06:46.22 | Shirik | One of my students seems to be claiming that the current through their circuit was 452.1A |
| 06:46.44 | Rabbitbunny | Let me guess, alarm-clock. |
| 06:46.54 | ScytheBlade1 | That is probably more than most students would be dealing with |
| 06:46.55 | nevcairiel | even i don't believe that, and i don't know much about that stuff |
| 06:46.59 | Shirik | that would be one hell of an alarm clock |
| 06:47.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Ne-vyn (i=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 06:47.06 | Shirik | more like an explosion |
| 06:47.08 | Rabbitbunny | It would be awesome. |
| 06:49.21 | Jerub | Shirik: i had a classmate that if he said that, i'd believe him. |
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| 07:04.44 | Shirik | ... |
| 07:05.13 | Shirik | "Measuring i1 [current before the resistor] and i2 [current after the resistor] showed equivalent values, so we deduced that the resistor must have no effect on the current" |
| 07:05.15 | Shirik | headdesks |
| 07:05.27 | Shirik | This is why aerospace engineers are not allowed to touch electrical equipment |
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| 07:06.29 | Thunder_Child | and why EE are not allowed to make things that fly |
| 07:06.30 | Jerub | tee hee |
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| 07:23.01 | Arrowmaster | i would never believe any student that claimed to have a circuit with 452.1A |
| 07:23.17 | Arrowmaster | since i know that 1A is enough to kill |
| 07:23.31 | Arrowmaster | (votts cant kill you, amps do) |
| 07:26.17 | Arrowmaster | i had a teacher thats been electrocuted with 340 3phase before, he said youll notice all long time electricians work with one hand behind their back for a reason |
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| 07:27.46 | Rabbitbunny | They're only long time electricians because they're not dead. |
| 07:28.03 | Jerub | i've done work that involved me shocking myself 40-50 times a day |
| 07:28.05 | Jerub | meh |
| 07:28.06 | Jerub | ;) |
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| 07:28.07 | Rabbitbunny | once had a job installing wiring |
| 07:28.10 | Arrowmaster | thats kinda the point, keeping one hand behind your back keeps you alive |
| 07:29.45 | Rabbitbunny | I was implying that it's not because they're good, it's just because they're safe, btw. |
| 07:32.00 | WobWork | why one hand behind your back? |
| 07:33.05 | Rabbitbunny | It takes two hands to make an electrical path, most times. |
| 07:33.37 | Rabbitbunny | You're leaning on the case (grounded) then you touch the distrobution block... (+120V) then you're looking at the ceiling... |
| 07:33.55 | Rabbitbunny | Also, if it hit accross your hands, it goes through your heart. |
| 07:34.05 | Rabbitbunny | If it hits one hand and out your foot, no heart. |
| 07:34.09 | Arrowmaster | thats exactly the reason |
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| 07:38.34 | Rabbitbunny | You know what all these different panels needs? A reference design. |
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| 07:38.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 07:39.00 | Rabbitbunny | I'm tired of reading some illiterate monkeys scribblings about how to maybe get an addon to work. |
| 07:39.13 | Arrowmaster | they have one |
| 07:39.20 | Arrowmaster | LibDataBroker-1.1 |
| 07:39.22 | Rabbitbunny | link |
| 07:39.36 | Rabbitbunny | Oh, no. |
| 07:39.41 | Rabbitbunny | I looked at that thing. |
| 07:39.45 | Rabbitbunny | It seems to do nothing. |
| 07:39.57 | Arrowmaster | you need a display addon |
| 07:40.47 | Arrowmaster | http://wiki.github.com/tekkub/libdatabroker-1-1/addons-using-ldb |
| 07:40.58 | Arrowmaster | why the fuck does ctrl-c in my firefox address bar not copy |
| 07:40.58 | Rabbitbunny | Since I had assumed that would be the entire point of any addon, you must mean something different by that. |
| 07:41.03 | Rabbitbunny | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19820527626&sid=1 |
| 07:41.12 | Rabbitbunny | bah. |
| 07:41.18 | Rabbitbunny | I can't copy at all. |
| 07:41.46 | Kalroth | haha |
| 07:41.50 | Kalroth | that's one pissed off warlock |
| 07:42.13 | Rabbitbunny | what the... |
| 07:42.33 | Rabbitbunny | The design of addons has changed a large amount. |
| 07:42.55 | Rabbitbunny | Where is "This code makes it say 'hello' on the bar, do what you want with it" ? |
| 07:43.02 | jnwhiteh | .. |
| 07:43.04 | jnwhiteh | he has an example |
| 07:43.07 | jnwhiteh | that does even more than that. |
| 07:43.10 | jnwhiteh | so why don't you use it? |
| 07:43.16 | Rabbitbunny | That's the problem. |
| 07:43.19 | Amarande | dang. I went to take a break and fell asleep. |
| 07:43.24 | jnwhiteh | Rabbitbunny: LDB is not an addon |
| 07:43.24 | jnwhiteh | period. |
| 07:43.26 | jnwhiteh | so stop calling ti one |
| 07:43.27 | Rabbitbunny | What's extraneous and what isn't? |
| 07:43.31 | jnwhiteh | that is your problem |
| 07:43.42 | Rabbitbunny | Calm down sherrif joe. |
| 07:43.46 | jnwhiteh | I am calm |
| 07:43.49 | jnwhiteh | incredibly |
| 07:43.50 | jnwhiteh | I just hit |
| 07:43.50 | jnwhiteh | the |
| 07:43.52 | jnwhiteh | enter key |
| 07:43.54 | Rabbitbunny | They try typing on one line. |
| 07:43.54 | jnwhiteh | a lot. |
| 07:43.57 | jnwhiteh | i can't. |
| 07:43.59 | jnwhiteh | i'm incapable. |
| 07:44.14 | Arrowmaster | tekkub: i think somebody edited http://wiki.github.com/tekkub/libdatabroker-1-1/addons-using-ldb and cut part of the page off |
| 07:44.21 | Rabbitbunny | See, this was a serious and helpful conversation... |
| 07:44.21 | Amarande | hm, speaking of LDB |
| 07:44.24 | jnwhiteh | Rabbitbunny: http://wiki.github.com/tekkub/libdatabroker-1-1/how-to-provide-a-dataobject |
| 07:44.31 | Amarande | Docking Station seems to have this habit of tainting stuff :| |
| 07:44.32 | jnwhiteh | Download a display addon |
| 07:44.38 | jnwhiteh | and that shows you how to provide a data feed |
| 07:44.47 | jnwhiteh | the code of the display addon will show you how to _use_ a data feed. |
| 07:44.49 | Rabbitbunny | provide a data feed? |
| 07:45.00 | Rabbitbunny | Like I said, the entire model has changed. |
| 07:45.02 | tekkub | Arrowmaster: it's a wonky bug we're trying to find |
| 07:45.09 | jnwhiteh | No, the "entire addon model" has not changed |
| 07:45.11 | jnwhiteh | not in the least |
| 07:45.17 | Arrowmaster | tekkub: does the github wiki stuff not have a history? |
| 07:45.21 | tekkub | big text box form submissions are getting cut off |
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| 07:46.00 | tekkub | it has one, that's not the issue :P |
| 07:46.00 | Arrowmaster | just wondering since i didnt see one |
| 07:46.00 | tekkub | dropdown at the bottom |
| 07:46.00 | tekkub | might not actually work |
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| 07:46.48 | Rabbitbunny | jnwhiteh: Not a useful link. |
| 07:46.53 | Arrowmaster | 77 of that page seems to be the one before it got messed up |
| 07:46.58 | jnwhiteh | Rabbitbunny: What do you _want_ |
| 07:47.04 | jnwhiteh | since we've given you all of the relevant links |
| 07:47.19 | Rabbitbunny | jnwhiteh: a reference design that makes "hello" show up on the bar. |
| 07:47.40 | Rabbitbunny | and no, a series of code snippet defined by jargon does not count. |
| 07:48.15 | jnwhiteh | LibStub:GetLibrary("LibDataBroker-1.1"):NewDataObject("HelloWorld", { type = "data source", text = "Hello World"}) |
| 07:48.16 | jnwhiteh | There, done. |
| 07:48.21 | Arrowmaster | LibStub:GetLibrary("LibDataBroker-1.1") |
| 07:48.22 | Arrowmaster | :NewDataObject("HelloExample", {type = "data source", text = "Hello"}) |
| 07:48.25 | Arrowmaster | fuck you |
| 07:48.35 | Arrowmaster | and why is there a newline in mine |
| 07:48.37 | jnwhiteh | we both failed |
| 07:48.40 | jnwhiteh | he asked for it to say 'hello' |
| 07:48.44 | jnwhiteh | and neither of us complied =( |
| 07:48.47 | Rabbitbunny | heh |
| 07:49.01 | Rabbitbunny | That doesn't count either... |
| 07:49.05 | jnwhiteh | ... |
| 07:49.09 | jnwhiteh | why, please explain this to me. |
| 07:49.15 | Arrowmaster | that does exactly what you asked for |
| 07:49.18 | Rabbitbunny | drop that into the interface directory and see what happens. |
| 07:49.26 | jnwhiteh | Rabbitbunny: run it in game |
| 07:49.28 | jnwhiteh | and see what it does |
| 07:49.30 | jnwhiteh | smartass |
| 07:49.38 | Rabbitbunny | Hey, you started it. |
| 07:49.39 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:49.42 | jnwhiteh | does exactly what you wanted |
| 07:49.45 | jnwhiteh | well let me rephrase that |
| 07:49.54 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:49.57 | Rabbitbunny | Great, now you can leave and feel happy. |
| 07:49.58 | jnwhiteh | that does exactly what you want. |
| 07:50.04 | jnwhiteh | Well, I'm not going anywhere. |
| 07:50.08 | jnwhiteh | You're the one who is dismissing our help |
| 07:50.12 | jnwhiteh | without telling us what you want |
| 07:50.14 | jnwhiteh | and expecting something |
| 07:50.25 | jnwhiteh | and further, just continue to claim that the whole "addon model" has changed, when in fact it hasn't. |
| 07:50.26 | *** join/#wowuidev widgertick (n=widgerti@unaffiliated/widgertick) |
| 07:50.32 | jnwhiteh | so forgive my mild frustration |
| 07:50.35 | jnwhiteh | when I'm attempting to help you. |
| 07:50.38 | widgertick | UNFORGIVEN |
| 07:50.40 | Rabbitbunny | Arrowmaster: So anyway, What's this new design flow? addons push data to a queue, and any display addon displays it? |
| 07:50.48 | jnwhiteh | widgertick: so they dub me unforgiven =/ |
| 07:50.51 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 07:50.54 | Cairenn | widgertick!!! |
| 07:50.58 | Cairenn | tacklehugs widgertick |
| 07:51.00 | widgertick | jnwhiteh: <3 |
| 07:51.05 | widgertick | oofs! |
| 07:51.06 | jnwhiteh | Rabbitbunny: Technically its not really a display queue. Do you understand what LibStub is.. for starters? |
| 07:51.18 | Rabbitbunny | No, hence my obvious befuddlement. |
| 07:51.24 | jnwhiteh | Rabbitbunny: LibStub is a simple global table (and 40 lines of code) that allows someone to register a 'library' in the global namespace |
| 07:51.30 | Rabbitbunny | Do you remember addons before LibStub? |
| 07:51.31 | jnwhiteh | libraries can then be looked up by that name, and that's what's happening here |
| 07:51.44 | jnwhiteh | LibDataBroker-1.0.lua defines a library called "LibDataBroker-1.1'. |
| 07:52.00 | Arrowmaster | addons before libstub or libraries before libstub? |
| 07:52.01 | jnwhiteh | err 1.1 and 1.1, forgive my typo |
| 07:52.10 | jnwhiteh | Rabbitbunny: Yes, of course |
| 07:52.13 | Rabbitbunny | addon. |
| 07:52.18 | jnwhiteh | I've been writing addons longer than you have been playing the game |
| 07:52.23 | Rabbitbunny | I wrote a few addons two years ago. |
| 07:52.29 | jnwhiteh | Cool! |
| 07:52.30 | Rabbitbunny | Everything changed since then. |
| 07:52.36 | Arrowmaster | libstub has been around since then |
| 07:52.38 | jnwhiteh | Well even then, LibStub was in wide use, you just may not have been aware of it. |
| 07:52.52 | jnwhiteh | And LibStub is not how "Addons" are written, its how Libraries are written |
| 07:53.01 | jnwhiteh | and you don't ever need to really tough a library if you don't want to |
| 07:53.06 | Rabbitbunny | Well, I didn't use any. at all. |
| 07:53.12 | jnwhiteh | so nothing in the "Addon model" has changed, I promise you.. it's quite the same |
| 07:53.20 | jnwhiteh | you're just venturing outside your comfort zone. |
| 07:53.27 | jnwhiteh | Can I continue with the explanation now? |
| 07:53.39 | Arrowmaster | i thought you said you had a fubar plugin? |
| 07:53.52 | Rabbitbunny | Yeah, and i didn't do anything with a library. |
| 07:53.59 | Arrowmaster | you had to of |
| 07:54.03 | Rabbitbunny | I took the reference design, added my code, and it worked. |
| 07:54.17 | Arrowmaster | its impossible to create a fubar plugin without using libraries |
| 07:54.38 | Rabbitbunny | i'll wait. |
| 07:54.49 | widgertick | poofs! |
| 07:54.51 | jnwhiteh | you'll wait for what? |
| 07:54.56 | widgertick | hugs Cairenn as he goes! |
| 07:55.12 | Rabbitbunny | Him to realize the the reference design does whatever with libraries. |
| 07:55.26 | jnwhiteh | Wow, you're rude. |
| 07:55.45 | jnwhiteh | So you just took code that did something and ignored the bits you didn't write.. but you don't want to do that here.. and that's our fault? |
| 07:55.45 | Rabbitbunny | You're the guy who was lambasting me moments ago when I asked a simple question. |
| 07:55.51 | jnwhiteh | I have not been lambasting you |
| 07:56.00 | jnwhiteh | I'm correcting you, and trying to provide a meaningful explanation |
| 07:56.07 | jnwhiteh | I suggest you re-read the conversation. |
| 07:56.13 | Rabbitbunny | No, I want to ignore the bits I didn't write, Thanks for listening. |
| 07:56.20 | jnwhiteh | Sorry, not going to happen |
| 07:56.26 | jnwhiteh | I'm the only one here actually giving you useful information |
| 07:56.37 | jnwhiteh | why on earth are you insisting on picking a fight with me, |
| 07:56.46 | Arrowmaster | i rewrote LibFuBarPlugin-3.0, trust me its impossible to write a fubar addon without the FuBarPlugin library |
| 07:56.49 | jnwhiteh | So once you've gotten a copy of the library table object from LibStub.. you call the NewDataObject to register a new data object with LibDataBroker. LDB is just again, a simple library that lets you register 'data objects'. There are really only two kinds of data objects, those that provide a button you can click on to do something (launchers) and those that provide some data to be displayed (data feeds). |
| 07:57.21 | Rabbitbunny | Arrowmaster: I worded it wrong, I didn't have to do anything with libraries. The reference design did the for me. |
| 07:57.32 | Arrowmaster | ok thats a better way to put it |
| 07:57.51 | jnwhiteh | The LDB data specifications (http://wiki.github.com/tekkub/libdatabroker-1-1/data-specifications) show what fields your data object can contain.. For a launcher you would want to have an icon and an OnClick function. For a data feed you can provide text and optionally an icon and some other bits and bobs. |
| 07:58.07 | Rabbitbunny | Yeah, I'm not going to use LDB. |
| 07:58.13 | Rabbitbunny | At all ever. |
| 07:58.29 | Arrowmaster | Rabbitbunny: see http://wiki.github.com/tekkub/libdatabroker-1-1/how-to-provide-a-dataobject |
| 07:58.36 | jnwhiteh | So what the one-liner did, was get a copy of LDB from LibStub.. create a new data object that is of type 'data source' and set the text value to 'hello'. |
| 07:58.39 | Arrowmaster | see the part where it says A data "feed"? |
| 07:58.53 | Amarande | Hmm. Is it an unfortunate fact of life that using the LDB micromenu buttons addon causes things like the spellbook to become tainted when the buttons are used, or is that a problem with my LDB panel? |
| 07:59.06 | Arrowmaster | see the 3rd line, after that all you have to do is 'dataobj.text = "new text"' to change what it diesplays |
| 07:59.13 | jnwhiteh | Amarande: I think that's a problem with your panel, as I've never experienced the issue. |
| 07:59.22 | Amarande | dammit. |
| 07:59.25 | Amarande | <3 the look of Docking Station |
| 07:59.31 | Amarande | but it has way too many fracking taint issues :| |
| 07:59.40 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: picobuttons? |
| 07:59.44 | jnwhiteh | Well color me baffled that someone thinks LDB is harder to develop for than FuBar O.o |
| 07:59.47 | Amarande | Arrow: yah |
| 08:00.15 | Amarande | I'd consider Titan, but then I have to rearrange everything -again-, since I don't remember Titan supporting top-and-bottom bars like DockingStation or FuBar do. |
| 08:00.26 | Amarande | And I need 2 rows to fit all my copious info addons in. |
| 08:00.30 | Rabbitbunny | It does. |
| 08:00.31 | jnwhiteh | Amarande: mitch0 is working on a new FuBar LDB display |
| 08:00.43 | jnwhiteh | You may want to look into that. |
| 08:01.04 | Amarande | suspects DockingStation is somehow also responsible for not being able to access inventory during combat eventually a lot of the time. |
| 08:01.46 | Arrowmaster | jnwhiteh: you use picobuttons and dont have issues with the spellbook in combat? |
| 08:01.56 | jnwhiteh | Not that I've noticed, no. |
| 08:02.01 | Amarande | wtf, this taint spreads faster than the Scourge |
| 08:02.02 | Amarande | "9/16 19:31:46.912 An action was blocked in combat because of taint from Ara_Broker_Reputations - PetPaperDollFrame:Hide()" |
| 08:02.11 | jnwhiteh | Trying to _cast_ stuff from the spellbook? |
| 08:02.13 | Amarande | I don't think Ara Broker Reputations even does anything to the pet frame, that I know of ... |
| 08:02.18 | Arrowmaster | i looked at the code and it should taint if opened in combat |
| 08:02.24 | Amarande | Arrow: even not in combat |
| 08:02.28 | Arrowmaster | and no display will be able to fix it |
| 08:02.32 | Amarande | I was in the Barrens the other night after having my weird death incident |
| 08:02.40 | Amarande | and encountered a couple guys who I decided could use healthstones |
| 08:02.55 | Amarande | of course, I couldn't give them the ones that my action bars are set up for, since those need way more than level 11-12 |
| 08:03.07 | Amarande | so I tried to go into my spellbook and cast the lower ranks of create healthstone and got "an action was blocked because of taint" |
| 08:03.18 | Amarande | (apparently, in that case, DockingStation was accused of being the taint provider) |
| 08:04.01 | jnwhiteh | let me try quick with NP |
| 08:04.13 | Arrowmaster | i used to use fubar_micromenu and then tried to fix it and eventually killed it because it wasnt fixable |
| 08:04.35 | Rabbitbunny | Oh, there we go, Titan has a clock. |
| 08:04.49 | Rabbitbunny | I can just delete lines until it doesn't work, then drop in my code. |
| 08:04.57 | Arrowmaster | Rabbitbunny: Titan used LibDataBroker-1.1 too |
| 08:05.04 | Arrowmaster | s/used/uses/ |
| 08:06.07 | jnwhiteh | I really have given you absolutely everything you need to write a simple LDB plugin, but perhaps you are just purposely ignoring me |
| 08:06.10 | Rabbitbunny | Yeah, but it'll be a reference design. |
| 08:06.25 | Arrowmaster | and theres a LDB reference design |
| 08:06.34 | Rabbitbunny | jnwhiteh: No, you gave me everything you need... |
| 08:06.59 | Arrowmaster | you could ask more specific questions |
| 08:07.00 | jnwhiteh | Rabbitbunny: No, I've written three books now about writing addons for World of Warcraft. I consider myself well versed in how to explain topics to someone so that they will understand it. |
| 08:07.16 | jnwhiteh | I don't explain things for me.. because I understand them already. |
| 08:07.23 | Rabbitbunny | i got about two pages into the LDB shit before I gave up with that. It's written by an illiterate, and i don't care to read it. |
| 08:07.37 | Rabbitbunny | Arrowmaster: I'd have to know what I don't know to ask what I need to know. |
| 08:07.58 | jnwhiteh | Wow. |
| 08:08.37 | Arrowmaster | im getting to the point of just fucking writing it for you |
| 08:08.44 | Rabbitbunny | heh |
| 08:08.55 | Rabbitbunny | So, I'll take a moment to get some code to work... |
| 08:09.01 | Arrowmaster | wheres cogwheel to stop me when i need him |
| 08:09.09 | jnwhiteh | you just don't ever stop.. |
| 08:09.16 | jnwhiteh | you have two people.. sitting here tryign to help |
| 08:09.30 | jnwhiteh | and it seems all you are intent on doing is pushing people away, while continuing to complain |
| 08:09.41 | jnwhiteh | This confuses me =( |
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| 08:29.23 | Rabbitbunny | Okay, I'll admit that getting linked into the ldb site showed me all the crappy parts first. |
| 08:29.36 | Rabbitbunny | The API page cleared up a lot of it, for instance. |
| 08:34.46 | jnwhiteh | When I initially asked what you were trying to do, I was trying to figure out whether you were interested in how display addons used LDB data objects (i.e. the API) or how to produce a data object. |
| 08:35.03 | jnwhiteh | but either way, I'm glad it helped to clear things up for you. |
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| 09:05.45 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:05.52 | jnwhiteh | kk |
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| 09:21.16 | Fisker | just so you know jnwhiteh |
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| 09:55.23 | Rabbitbunny | Wow. |
| 09:55.35 | Rabbitbunny | That... that works well. |
| 09:55.43 | jnwhiteh | > |
| 09:55.43 | jnwhiteh | ? |
| 09:55.54 | Taroven | I second that question mark. |
| 09:55.54 | Rabbitbunny | LDB/Titan |
| 09:57.08 | Taroven | Quick! I need an addon name involving general relativity! |
| 09:58.09 | Taroven | EventHorizon and Redshift are, unfortunately, taken... though I can always just hijack Redshift since it's mine in the first place. =P |
| 09:59.32 | Amarande | hm. |
| 09:59.40 | Amarande | here's a little pondering about the evolution of WoW |
| 09:59.51 | Amarande | which single patch (counting only x.y patches) would you say was the *single worst fail of Blizzard*? |
| 10:00.21 | Taroven | I'd almost have to say 2.4. |
| 10:01.18 | Amarande | ehh, 2.4 added too much win to be really criticized, especially an actual reliable source of income that was actually fun |
| 10:01.23 | Amarande | I would say 2.3 |
| 10:01.26 | Taroven | But really, you could say any of them have been the worst, from someone's point of view. |
| 10:01.33 | jnwhiteh | why am i writing shit in these damn languages |
| 10:01.34 | jnwhiteh | >< |
| 10:01.38 | Taroven | Doh, yeah, had them backwards |
| 10:01.53 | Amarande | I could go into a giant wall of text on the fails of 2.3 in both the PvP and PvE worlds |
| 10:02.39 | Taroven | jnwhiteh: ? |
| 10:02.40 | Amarande | Most of it can be traced to Zul'Aman content, particularly the Executioner enchant, to policy changes with S3 and to the changes to leveling |
| 10:03.22 | Amarande | heh, speaking of which, do people even go to ZA anymore? :) |
| 10:03.30 | jnwhiteh | Taroven: im' writing the commstime concurrent benchmark in like 10 different languages |
| 10:03.38 | jnwhiteh | so my mind is .. exploding right now. |
| 10:04.02 | Amarande | or did ZA basically get burned completely out of play through the last massive frenzy right before 3.0 to get the last possible AWBs? |
| 10:04.20 | Taroven | jnwhiteh: Ouch. Just, ouch. |
| 10:04.41 | Taroven | I go to ZA on fresh 70's. |
| 10:04.46 | Amarande | But yeah, Executioner and S3 were a real double whammy to clothies in PvP. |
| 10:04.52 | Taroven | Makes for good quick gear with a couple buddies. |
| 10:05.02 | Amarande | Warlocks had it worst, but I'm sure mages and priests didn't appreciate it either, since armor penetration in general becomes a horrible, horrible clothie killer especially |
| 10:05.09 | jnwhiteh | Just got done writing it in Occam-pi |
| 10:05.12 | jnwhiteh | i mean, seriously? :P |
| 10:05.14 | Taroven | If they'd done armor pen right in the first place Executioner would've been completely fine. |
| 10:05.24 | Amarande | (and actually isn't even all that effective against plate come to think of it, unless you really, really have metric asstons of it) |
| 10:05.39 | Amarande | Executioner was just a "clothies, we hate you, screw you" apparently :| |
| 10:05.57 | Amarande | maybe I take it a tad personally, since both my 60+ characters are cloth, heh |
| 10:06.19 | Amarande | But the real problem was Executioner in combination of S3 |
| 10:06.34 | Taroven | jnwhiteh: I have to agree with the initial question then... Why? o.0 |
| 10:06.37 | Amarande | I mean, not only did they tell warlocks (and to a lesser extent other clothies) "you're going to really hate arena now against warrior-based teams" |
| 10:06.41 | jnwhiteh | research |
| 10:06.43 | jnwhiteh | *shrug* |
| 10:07.05 | Taroven | Amarande: See, my mains (so to speak) are Druid, Warrior, and Rogue, not necessarily in that order. |
| 10:07.12 | Amarande | but S3 introducing the rating thing also introduced "sorry, but you're going to have to do arena ANYWAY if you want the gear that will make you at all competitive in PvP, so just bring some tissues and cope" :P |
| 10:07.41 | Amarande | It was probably the worst at that very point, since at that point honor gear was S1, and S1 was pretty crappy |
| 10:07.54 | Taroven | On the rogue, who receives the most benefit from armor pen, it's actually a decent stat in small amounts pvp-wise. PvE, it's pretty forgettable depending on build. |
| 10:08.03 | Amarande | S2 was pretty awesome as honor gear, but I think S4 was by far the shortest season, so you really didn't have much time to get it |
| 10:08.21 | Taroven | S1 and S2 were perfect from my point of view. |
| 10:08.38 | Taroven | S3 was actually my favorite season. |
| 10:08.44 | Taroven | S4 just blew. |
| 10:08.50 | Amarande | I say warrior based teams because I'm not sure rogue, paladin and druid based melee teams were nearly so bad. |
| 10:09.02 | Amarande | Warriors had the MS+Executioner combo, which was just an IWIN button against cloth |
| 10:09.03 | Taroven | Though I did nearly get gladiator on my druid. Gogo lifebloom spam. -.- |
| 10:09.30 | Amarande | especially against warlocks, since warlocks at the time had little in the way of survivability but extra health and some meager reduction from SL |
| 10:09.42 | Amarande | but I'm sure mages were in just as bad a situation when they'd used their cooldowns :) |
| 10:09.47 | Taroven | Which season are we talking here? |
| 10:09.56 | Amarande | whichever one it was when 2.3 was fresh |
| 10:09.57 | Amarande | 3 I think |
| 10:10.07 | Taroven | Hm. |
| 10:10.21 | Amarande | actually, people *still* regard MS as OP |
| 10:10.25 | Amarande | so ... yeah |
| 10:10.29 | Taroven | Well, I ran SLSL lock + 11/11/37 druid in s3 and s4. |
| 10:10.37 | Amarande | that kind of debuff at least ought to be dispellable :P |
| 10:10.48 | Amarande | Taroven: It wasn't so bad in 2's and 3's |
| 10:10.49 | Taroven | Eh, MS isn't OP, people just love to bitch about bladestorm. |
| 10:11.02 | Amarande | It was 5's were warlocks had the 'screwed' tattoo on their foreheads |
| 10:11.22 | Taroven | Never did 5's. I have trouble wrapping my head around tracking that much at a time. |
| 10:11.23 | Amarande | because in 5's you could have an MS+Exec warrior and 2 other melee and still have room for druid and priest or something effective like that in the back row |
| 10:11.35 | Taroven | 3's I can do, always been playing at a near-pro level in 2's. |
| 10:11.46 | Amarande | and cloth just *didn't live* against a triple melee assault team that included MS |
| 10:12.02 | Amarande | Executioner just made it stupidly IWIN for such teams |
| 10:12.12 | Amarande | btw |
| 10:12.27 | Amarande | I'm trying to remember now, is armor pen slated to get the axe for Cataclysm or was I thinking something else? |
| 10:12.46 | Taroven | Probably something else, I could look it up if I had the energy. |
| 10:13.03 | Amarande | yes it is. |
| 10:13.04 | Amarande | w00t. |
| 10:13.37 | Taroven | Well, it was never an interesting stat in the first place. |
| 10:13.51 | Amarande | "Spell DPS classes will no longer rely on spirit for mana regeneration, and spirit will no longer be on spell DPS gear." |
| 10:13.52 | Amarande | ok |
| 10:13.56 | Taroven | It's always been either grossly overpowered or grossly underpowered depending on who you're fighting. |
| 10:13.58 | Amarande | so what WILL spell DPS classes rely on for mana regeneration? |
| 10:14.19 | Amarande | or will everyone want to give my warlock a hug because of life tap meaning mana sustainability, while mages and such will just be doomed to oom? :) |
| 10:14.34 | Taroven | I'm assuming int, or possibly passive/crit/etc effects |
| 10:15.10 | Taroven | Look at the holy paladin. They've done fine for quite a long time without spirit, I'm pretty sure if Blizz wants to axe spirit they can figure something out. |
| 10:15.15 | Amarande | "spirit will no longer be on spell DPS gear." |
| 10:15.16 | Amarande | hmm |
| 10:15.23 | Amarande | wonder if this means warlocks will be wanting to get some pieces of healer gear |
| 10:15.23 | Taroven | Now, making that axe do unique things for each class? That's harder. |
| 10:15.35 | Amarande | especially with things like glyph of life tap suffering badly without sufficient spirit from gear |
| 10:15.49 | Taroven | Or mages. |
| 10:15.53 | Taroven | Hi, Molten Shield. |
| 10:16.15 | Amarande | Fel Armor uses spirit, too |
| 10:16.22 | Taroven | But if Blizz is cutting spirit from the equasion for dps, I have no doubt life tap and its related effects will be changed. |
| 10:16.24 | Amarande | yeah, I see more gear drama in our future |
| 10:16.33 | Amarande | well, yeah, unless they change GoLT and FA |
| 10:16.47 | Amarande | WotLK already has its share of gear drama |
| 10:17.03 | Amarande | "NO THAT'S A HEALER PIECE" "But it has DPS useful stats!" "BUT IT'S GOT MP5, IT'S FOR A HEALER" |
| 10:17.15 | Amarande | that was one good thing about BC, you knew what stuff was for who :) |
| 10:17.22 | Taroven | Huh. Newish ptr build... |
| 10:17.28 | Taroven | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:17.28 | Taroven | Protection |
| 10:17.28 | Taroven | Critical Block now gives your successful blocks a 20/40/60% chance to block double the normal amount. (Up from 10/20/30%) |
| 10:17.51 | Amarande | I still remember reading about the Shahraz loot drama between the mages/locks and holy pallies during pre-WotLK 3.0.2 |
| 10:17.53 | Taroven | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:17.53 | Taroven | Feral |
| 10:17.53 | Taroven | Infected Wounds now reduces the movement speed of the target by 16/34/50% (up from 8/17/25%) and its attack speed by 6/14/20% (up from 3/7/10%). |
| 10:18.46 | Amarande | although, such was fairly limited, and mainly because the spellpower change made some very specific pieces of gear that used to be just for healers suddenly dripping with desire for DPS casters |
| 10:18.53 | Amarande | Nadina's being probably the iconic example |
| 10:19.22 | Taroven | Bored Resto Druids around the world rejoiced at that change. |
| 10:19.41 | Amarande | speaking of Shahraz, I really should visit BT at some point anyway. |
| 10:19.58 | Amarande | I missed too much content in BC because I hit 70 too late and barely got to raid at all, and then only kara, because of the BC Spiral of Sadness |
| 10:20.02 | Taroven | I, for one, immediately started paying about 300-500g a week just so I could blow things up in my healing gear. |
| 10:20.17 | Amarande | anyway: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32370 |
| 10:20.28 | Amarande | before 3.0.2, that had "X healing and Y spell damage" instead of spellpower |
| 10:20.33 | Amarande | I forget exactly what the amounts were |
| 10:20.42 | Amarande | and therefore, it was kinda really really niche gear, mostly holy pally stuff |
| 10:20.56 | Amarande | but as you can see, the way it is now, it was drool city for warlocks and mages |
| 10:21.17 | Amarande | Especially given that in T6 destro was the in thing, and thus warlocks were very magey and thus couldn't have enough crit :) |
| 10:21.46 | Amarande | hm |
| 10:22.02 | Amarande | do we still need lots of SR gear against Shahraz now, or can we just rip BT a new one in 80 heroic gear now? |
| 10:22.16 | Taroven | Door #2 there. |
| 10:22.42 | Taroven | 6-manned Shahraz within a month of our first Naxx clear. |
| 10:22.49 | Amarande | I wonder who Nadina is supposed to be. |
| 10:22.51 | Taroven | No SR gear used. |
| 10:22.59 | Amarande | All these names on gear, and very few of them are ones that actually seem to be in the lore |
| 10:23.20 | Amarande | although not all of them are actually WoW lore anyway |
| 10:23.31 | Taroven | A lot of them are friends and family of the Blizz staff. |
| 10:23.44 | Amarande | for instance, there was actually a popular caster jewelry set in BC that was of all things based on a certain Vladimir Nabokov novel heh |
| 10:23.47 | Taroven | With a little googlefu you can find most of them. |
| 10:24.03 | Amarande | I actually used that set, and it never quite occurred to me that the names were from there |
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| 10:24.32 | Amarande | http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=667 |
| 10:24.56 | Amarande | maybe it's because I've never actually *read* the novel in question, so the name Charlotte of course didn't ring a bell, even if Lola might slightly have. |
| 10:25.29 | Taroven | I was wondering where those came from. |
| 10:26.35 | Amarande | Bought them both from the AH on Quel'dorei back in 08. |
| 10:26.44 | Amarande | IIRC, I didn't replace them till the late 70s at the very earliest. |
| 10:27.00 | Taroven | Oh dear god I'm in love with some of the 3.2.2 changes... my rogue is gonna seriously love the envenom change. |
| 10:27.54 | Taroven | Also, sword spec going to 10% for warriors might actually bring it back into viability... Nice. |
| 10:28.11 | Amarande | hmm, I wonder if http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37757 is referencing the same Charlotte |
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| 10:28.30 | Amarande | and apparently, they earned their name of "chastizing" for far too many players too one patch heh |
| 10:28.57 | Amarande | Giving out an item with a level requirement of 68, then upping it to 75 by patch AFTER people have equipped it? FAIL |
| 10:29.12 | Taroven | X.x |
| 10:29.44 | Amarande | sometimes I wonder if they think before patching things like that |
| 10:29.45 | Amarande | actually, wait |
| 10:29.53 | Amarande | they don't, if I've read some things about humanity correctly |
| 10:30.00 | Amarande | because in fact you don't think about anything before acting |
| 10:30.18 | Amarande | it's some sort of scientific claim that the portion of our brains responsible for rational thought actually doesn't fire until *after* we act |
| 10:30.27 | Amarande | therefore, instead of actually thinking out what we do, like we think we do |
| 10:30.38 | Amarande | we actually spend our lives rationalizing every stupid thing we do right after we do it :) |
| 10:31.37 | Amarande | isn't sure of the truth of this claim though |
| 10:34.37 | Codayus | There's a fair bit - looking at brain scans as people make a decision while saying the thought process out loud, bits that seem to be correlated with "making a decision" seem to fire well before the actual decision is conciously made. |
| 10:34.56 | Codayus | But how to interpret that is harder. |
| 10:36.12 | Codayus | Clearly there's a lot that goes on under the surface of concious thought - but then, that's always been pretty clear. Beyond that... *shrug* |
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| 10:44.45 | Amarande | ok, you know a political discussion on the web is getting bad when you find that some of the more refreshing comments look like this: |
| 10:44.51 | Amarande | "QuickTime Video Converter is currently the best software ..." |
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| 11:06.56 | Amarande | oh good grief. |
| 11:07.12 | Amarande | instead of agreeing warlocks (particularly aff) do too much threat |
| 11:07.27 | Amarande | people on this warlock board are going "warlock threat is fine, get a better tank" |
| 11:07.42 | Amarande | riiiiiiight. it can take an hour or more to lf1m tank for heroics as it is. |
| 11:13.06 | Amarande | obviously these guys on this board think tanks grow on trees or something :) |
| 11:17.18 | Legorol | I can confirm they don't, I grew on a bush instead |
| 11:20.09 | Amarande | Legorol: anyway, how can they expect people to be choosy about tanks when it takes an hour or two just to get a tank? |
| 11:20.22 | Amarande | (and if you reject the first tank that comes along, your healer probably gets disgusted and goes to find a less picky group that's G2G) |
| 11:22.54 | Amarande | And of course I can unfortunately understand tanks being reluctant to PUG (bears being the main exception) |
| 11:23.00 | Amarande | seeing as they bear the brunt of the repair cost :) |
| 11:23.18 | Amarande | whereas for the most part healers will generally be more willing to do so, since squishies don't pay nearly so much per wipe |
| 11:23.31 | Amarande | should know, there are days when I'm glad I wear cloth heh |
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| 11:54.22 | boomnuts | can any one point me to a free resource for learning lua and how to make wow addons? |
| 11:55.27 | jnwhiteh | http://wowwiki.com |
| 11:55.32 | mikma | http://www.google.com |
| 11:55.34 | jnwhiteh | but there's no "how to make addons" page |
| 11:55.43 | jnwhiteh | that's why there are two books about the topic.. neither of which is free :P |
| 11:56.12 | mikma | nyah nyah |
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| 11:56.45 | boomnuts | ya atleast one of the books is on my need to buy list |
| 11:56.58 | jnwhiteh | best way to start is look at another addon |
| 11:57.03 | jnwhiteh | and try to understand the concepts in them |
| 11:57.06 | jnwhiteh | and just read =) |
| 11:57.15 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/snippets might be interesting, not sure. |
| 12:21.47 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 12:22.37 | mikma | so. is windows 7 good |
| 12:24.22 | jnwhiteh | k |
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| 12:24.53 | Fisker | yes mikma |
| 12:24.55 | Fisker | very goo |
| 12:24.56 | Fisker | d |
| 12:25.05 | Wobin | I like it |
| 12:25.14 | mikma | tempted to test it out, but reinstalling the whole os after if expires is... meh :D |
| 12:25.34 | Fisker | install rtm? |
| 12:25.45 | mikma | there's still 4 days time to receive the product key for win7 tho |
| 12:27.25 | mikma | man they are still expensive |
| 12:27.28 | mikma | 119 dollars |
| 12:29.44 | Fisker | 4 days? |
| 12:31.54 | mikma | "Sorry, the Windows 7 RC is no longer available for download. If you.ve got the download and need a product key, they.ll be available until October 21, 2009." |
| 12:32.02 | mikma | http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/download.aspx |
| 12:32.11 | Fisker | we're in october?! |
| 12:33.03 | mikma | hmm, we are not. i was. |
| 12:34.27 | Fisker | it's odd though |
| 12:34.42 | Fisker | My order changed from "Available october 22, 2009" to "Processing" |
| 12:34.52 | Fisker | so i'm hoping they screwed up just like you |
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| 12:36.16 | mikma | i hate having the dates in windows as finnish |
| 12:36.20 | mikma | always fucking up the months |
| 12:37.44 | Fisker | :D |
| 12:38.16 | mikma | now, to find the good win7 from tpb |
| 12:43.58 | Fisker | l2sortafterseeders |
| 12:44.53 | mikma | i'll rather go with the Quality :) |
| 12:45.03 | mikma | +8 / -3 (+5) |
| 12:45.07 | mikma | +15 / -4 (+11) |
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| 13:03.44 | mikma | so, i got AMD Athlon 64 X2 250 processor. should i go with 32bit or 64bit windows 7? :) |
| 13:04.09 | Lopeppeppy | How much RAM on board? |
| 13:04.20 | mikma | 2gb |
| 13:06.34 | Lopeppeppy | I think I'd stick with 32. Unless Windows 7 isn't as much of a RAM hog as Vista? |
| 13:07.13 | mikma | i have no idea. |
| 13:07.21 | roastx | people have run windows 7 on ancient machines |
| 13:07.30 | roastx | so yes it fares better on lower ram than vista does |
| 13:07.31 | alestane | It's supposed to be more resource-effective. |
| 13:07.32 | mikma | what i saw with vista was the fact that none of the drivers exist for x64 :D |
| 13:08.24 | roastx | wat |
| 13:08.30 | roastx | graphics drivers are 64bit |
| 13:08.44 | roastx | therefore twice as much FPS |
| 13:09.05 | Lopeppeppy | That's a good question, how are the drivers for Windows 7? I know it took a good chunk of time before manufacturers caught up and issued Vista drivers. |
| 13:09.22 | roastx | i dual boot win7 and vista |
| 13:09.31 | roastx | i havent had anything not work in 7 |
| 13:09.46 | roastx | so i have no reason to use vista anymore heh |
| 13:10.31 | roastx | my mp3 player even worked off the bat with 7 (doesnt work in vista, go figure) |
| 13:10.43 | Lopeppeppy | Neat. |
| 13:10.58 | mikma | but the question is, are there any advantages with x64? |
| 13:11.01 | Lopeppeppy | I have an older printer that can be cranky about vista sometimes. |
| 13:11.09 | roastx | yeah it appears to have some sort of native support for mp3 players |
| 13:11.50 | roastx | biggest thing with x64 is it doesnt have the 3gb ram limit |
| 13:12.09 | roastx | but after that the performance differences are neglible and application specific |
| 13:12.23 | roastx | large file copying is faster in 65 |
| 13:12.25 | roastx | 64 |
| 13:12.35 | mikma | that i rarely do |
| 13:12.35 | roastx | because of the addressing and all |
| 13:12.46 | mikma | i'm just planning to play games after all |
| 13:12.56 | roastx | there's some os level tweaks but nothing major superfast |
| 13:13.09 | roastx | but applications take alot more advantage if they are 64bit |
| 13:13.38 | roastx | especially for like encoding video and stuff |
| 13:14.08 | roastx | the move to 64bit programming is slow though |
| 13:14.40 | roastx | and probably not even required anyway because most apps arent very taxing on the system |
| 13:15.43 | roastx | for games not much of anything has come out 64bit |
| 13:15.57 | roastx | i think UT might be? |
| 13:16.51 | industrial | is it thirdparty or third party |
| 13:16.52 | industrial | :p |
| 13:17.05 | roastx | www.turdparty.com |
| 13:17.12 | mikma | poop! |
| 13:17.15 | roastx | i just thought that up |
| 13:17.21 | roastx | i wouldnt recommend going to it |
| 13:17.24 | industrial | now think correct help |
| 13:17.27 | industrial | \:D/ |
| 13:17.39 | industrial | because it was a real question. |
| 13:17.56 | roastx | you havent paid your support fee for this month |
| 13:18.02 | roastx | im sorry i cannot answer. |
| 13:18.28 | industrial | im not asking this real time to someone because I have a lot of time either. |
| 13:19.04 | alestane | The appropriat expression is usually something like "third-party software". |
| 13:19.19 | industrial | thanks |
| 13:19.31 | roastx | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=third+party |
| 13:20.28 | roastx | Third-party software component |
| 13:20.28 | roastx | From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
| 13:20.49 | roastx | so yeah the dash looks standard software-wise |
| 13:21.05 | industrial | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=being+nice |
| 13:21.28 | roastx | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fuck+you+:D |
| 13:21.52 | Lopeppeppy | Stay good, kiki. |
| 13:23.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:26.10 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^ (i=as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:26.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (n=Sixen@173.25.22.158) |
| 13:28.35 | Tentacled | doh, why is wowwiki so outdated >_< |
| 13:28.56 | Lopeppeppy | Because you haven't updated it. |
| 13:29.30 | Tentacled | What do you think I'm doing right now ;P |
| 13:29.42 | Tentacled | Just grumbling at the amount of work needed :) |
| 13:30.14 | Tentacled | Moving all XML elements out of the huge-ass wall-of-text "XML UI" page |
| 13:34.16 | Wobin | oo |
| 13:34.17 | Wobin | http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/the_longest_journey |
| 13:34.23 | Wobin | only $10 |
| 13:34.32 | Wobin | (highly recommend this game, btw) |
| 13:35.02 | Tentacled | classic. |
| 13:42.12 | jnwhiteh | Tentacled: use wowprograming |
| 13:42.14 | jnwhiteh | that's what its there for |
| 13:42.34 | Tentacled | but wowprogramming has no XML information, none that I found anyway |
| 13:42.37 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets_hierarchy, http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets |
| 13:42.45 | jnwhiteh | the "xml" information is the same as the "lua" information |
| 13:42.51 | jnwhiteh | its all governed by the API and the schema |
| 13:42.59 | jnwhiteh | what information are you looking for? |
| 13:43.07 | Tentacled | sure, but not all XML attributes and hierarchy is there. |
| 13:43.14 | jnwhiteh | the hierachy is |
| 13:43.19 | jnwhiteh | the schema contains all this infor |
| 13:43.24 | jnwhiteh | you wouldn't want to rely on any online source fo rit |
| 13:43.26 | jnwhiteh | just look at teh XML schema |
| 13:43.28 | Tentacled | for example neither wowwiki nor wowprogramming documented the parentKey attribute |
| 13:43.32 | jnwhiteh | it's always right |
| 13:43.48 | jnwhiteh | actually, parentKey is in the second edition of the book |
| 13:43.57 | jnwhiteh | but we "catch" that by looking at the schema, which we did. |
| 13:44.02 | Tentacled | which I now understand, as it's dead simple, but. |
| 13:45.14 | jnwhiteh | The "right" place for this was here (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18031134556&sid=1), not on either site. |
| 13:45.39 | jnwhiteh | but it wasn't in the schema, because Blizzard didn't update the schema |
| 13:45.46 | jnwhiteh | hence why it wasn't in the patch notes, etc. |
| 13:46.16 | Tentacled | also, wowprogramming has an annoying habit of presenting all the information as one block - no mention what func/variable is inherited and what's in this particular object, for example |
| 13:46.18 | jnwhiteh | its just _used_ in the default UI, which is how we knew about it. |
| 13:46.33 | jnwhiteh | Tentacled: a problem I'm working on fixing.. that's why the hierarchy is there |
| 13:46.35 | jnwhiteh | but when asking people |
| 13:46.41 | jnwhiteh | no one _cares_ what methods are inherited |
| 13:46.45 | jnwhiteh | they only care about what they can call |
| 13:47.10 | jnwhiteh | But I agree, and when I have my next block of free time it will be updated to distinguish between inherited and defined methods. |
| 13:47.50 | Tentacled | Oh, I didn't know I was addressing the wowprogramming author himself :) |
| 13:48.06 | jnwhiteh | meh, that shouldn't change anything =) |
| 13:48.13 | jnwhiteh | I don't use wowwiki because there's nothing to push people to update it |
| 13:48.27 | jnwhiteh | so it has almost nothing covered.. except the few things that someone has written a thesis on |
| 13:48.40 | jnwhiteh | ours is all database driven, so we at least can see what is new and needs to be updated *shrug* |
| 13:48.50 | jnwhiteh | I'll keep working to make it a useful resource :P |
| 13:49.08 | Tentacled | much appreciated. Though I do recall some sort of inconsistency, now that I think of it... let me find it |
| 13:49.40 | A-KO | if not for wowprogramming I wouldn't be writing ui mods :P so, works for me. |
| 13:50.15 | Tentacled | ah, the 'signature' of the functions. |
| 13:50.20 | Tentacled | name, texture, body = GetMacroInfo(index) or GetMacroInfo("name") |
| 13:50.29 | jnwhiteh | k |
| 13:50.31 | jnwhiteh | what about it? |
| 13:50.31 | Tentacled | this is hella confusing for me |
| 13:50.35 | jnwhiteh | Why? |
| 13:50.36 | A-KO | it is? |
| 13:50.39 | jnwhiteh | its either GetMacroInfo(index) |
| 13:50.42 | jnwhiteh | or GetMacroInfo("name") |
| 13:50.48 | jnwhiteh | and either way, it returns name, texture and body. |
| 13:50.51 | Tentacled | exactly - and at the same time it seems like valid LUA code. |
| 13:51.06 | A-KO | lol |
| 13:51.10 | jnwhiteh | well.. no offense |
| 13:51.15 | jnwhiteh | but I expect you to be able to reason that out :P |
| 13:51.18 | jnwhiteh | its a function signature |
| 13:51.19 | jnwhiteh | not code |
| 13:51.44 | Tentacled | in my view this should be separated into possible use cases, like, |
| 13:51.50 | Tentacled | name, texture, body = GetMacroInfo(index) |
| 13:51.51 | Tentacled | or |
| 13:51.54 | Tentacled | name, texture, body = GetMacroInfo("name") |
| 13:51.59 | jnwhiteh | sure I could do that |
| 13:52.01 | jnwhiteh | but one second =) |
| 13:52.11 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetItemInfo |
| 13:52.18 | jnwhiteh | the returns are always the same |
| 13:52.26 | jnwhiteh | duplicating them in a case like that.. would be absurd |
| 13:52.50 | mikma | lulnuub! |
| 13:52.51 | Tentacled | that's indeed an even better example of what I'm speaking |
| 13:52.52 | jnwhiteh | The whole point of a signature is to give you a quick glance look at what the function takes as arguments, and what it returns |
| 13:53.04 | jnwhiteh | Having it on multiple lines breaks that, especially when I need to display signatures. |
| 13:53.17 | Tentacled | as far as documentation format goes, this page suggests that this function takes three arguments. |
| 13:53.22 | jnwhiteh | I can indeed split the display depending on the application, but is it really that confusing? |
| 13:53.32 | jnwhiteh | Tentacled: no, it doesn't. |
| 13:53.45 | alestane | I think wowwiki displays it as something like "name, texture, body = GetMacroInfo("name" | index)", but that has its own confusions. |
| 13:53.57 | jnwhiteh | alestane: that can work, but there are too many special cases |
| 13:54.01 | jnwhiteh | I know, I've gone through all 1500+ ;-) |
| 13:54.13 | jnwhiteh | Doing it like this, or like Tentacled suggested is really the only solution |
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| 13:54.18 | Tentacled | I mean, |
| 13:54.20 | Tentacled | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms644950(VS.85).aspx |
| 13:54.29 | Tentacled | a similar accepted doc format |
| 13:54.35 | alestane | It gets awkward when you have multiple arguments, especially if you have a choice between ("name") and (index, booktype). |
| 13:54.37 | jnwhiteh | yes, with no signature |
| 13:54.47 | jnwhiteh | err rather |
| 13:54.48 | jnwhiteh | they ave one |
| 13:54.50 | jnwhiteh | but they control it |
| 13:54.50 | Tentacled | has "Parameters: arg1 arg2 arg3" |
| 13:54.54 | jnwhiteh | they don't have the nonsense that Blizzard has |
| 13:54.57 | jnwhiteh | something I have no control over |
| 13:55.16 | alestane | Lua as a language doesn't HAVE function prototypes. |
| 13:55.34 | jnwhiteh | these functions have multiple return values, and they can accept any configuration of arguments if they're written that way |
| 13:55.41 | jnwhiteh | But you acknowledging this is precisely _my_ point |
| 13:55.48 | jnwhiteh | You now know, and reading those pages is no longer difficult :P |
| 13:56.00 | Tentacled | Exactly, that's why I think all (typical, at least) cases should be somehow covered. |
| 13:56.09 | jnwhiteh | Huh? |
| 13:56.11 | jnwhiteh | I'm not sure I follow |
| 13:56.17 | mikma | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:56.24 | jnwhiteh | mikma: i sat down =/ |
| 13:56.30 | mikma | oh snap |
| 13:57.51 | Tentacled | Case - Lua functions can have any haywire parameters if they choose to, Lua being untyped and all. Problem - a long list of all the parameters the function can possibly accept in all its variants seems like a list of arguments it precisely needs, as that's how it's usually documented in other languages. |
| 13:58.08 | jnwhiteh | So _how_ do you document it? |
| 13:58.17 | mikma | so, what are we arguing about now |
| 13:58.17 | jnwhiteh | I'm completely open, but you haven't told me how I _can_ do it. |
| 13:58.37 | jnwhiteh | just that you don't like how its done (even though you are fully capable of reading the page as it is) |
| 13:58.51 | Tentacled | First of all, I'm merely suggesting, not complaining :) |
| 13:59.11 | jnwhiteh | Well (again no offense) |
| 13:59.16 | mikma | industrial: http://koti.welho.com/akisalli/ |
| 13:59.23 | jnwhiteh | but until you've presented a solution to the problem you're addressing, its not a suggestion =) |
| 14:00.10 | jnwhiteh | but I'm all ears |
| 14:00.22 | mikma | i say troll, and burn him. |
| 14:00.27 | jnwhiteh | mikma: shush |
| 14:00.49 | alestane | I suppose one could separate the alternate calling conventions by something that isn't valid Lua, like a |pipe|. |
| 14:01.00 | jnwhiteh | alestane: same issue he's talking about now |
| 14:01.09 | jnwhiteh | just without the 'or' |
| 14:01.16 | jnwhiteh | which is simple, but not a real solution to the perceived prblem |
| 14:01.26 | alestane | I'm not sure it would be much an improvement either. |
| 14:01.31 | Tentacled | I'd either use some sort of | [ ]-ridden argument format, instead of the signature as it is, or - if that's too confusing in some particular case, ie. if Blizzard had heads deep enough in their asses to have the same function accept completely absurd sets of arguments - present several sets of calling conventions and their arguments. |
| 14:02.03 | jnwhiteh | Tentacled: There are too many of the above cases (And they would have to be handled manually) |
| 14:02.23 | jnwhiteh | I ask again, is it really that big of an issue? |
| 14:02.23 | Tentacled | Like, SetTexCoord(tlx,tly,blx,bly,............) with args explained, and SetTexCoord(left,right,top,bottom) with args explained |
| 14:02.28 | mikma | jnwhiteh: oh, burn you, too! |
| 14:02.39 | jnwhiteh | Tentacled: and what about when they have a number of returns |
| 14:02.47 | jnwhiteh | I'm duplicating documentation all over the place, which is a much bigger prblem |
| 14:02.55 | jnwhiteh | when i can't keep things updated because I have to go to 3 different locations |
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| 14:03.24 | Tentacled | jnwhiteh: if in all cases the returns are the same, then just one Returns: section, and if there are many cases, perhaps one Returns: section per calling convention. |
| 14:03.47 | jnwhiteh | so all on one page? |
| 14:03.56 | jnwhiteh | I can't believe that it woudl really be an improvement |
| 14:04.04 | jnwhiteh | I don't really have time to make drastic changed like this now anyway |
| 14:04.11 | jnwhiteh | but I'll definitely look at "better" ways to display the information |
| 14:04.15 | Tentacled | I guess that would be clearer than crammed together and the user has to find their way through it. |
| 14:04.31 | Tentacled | Of course, that is additional work, that's why I'm only presenting the idea which you might entertain if you have the time or someone to do it for you or something. :) |
| 14:04.41 | jnwhiteh | I guess I just disagree that any user really has to spend much time "figuring" anything out |
| 14:04.47 | jnwhiteh | no more than reading the page and looking at the information |
| 14:04.52 | Tentacled | Call me dumb ;P |
| 14:04.55 | jnwhiteh | You're not |
| 14:04.57 | jnwhiteh | lazy if anything |
| 14:04.59 | jnwhiteh | btu not dumb =) |
| 14:05.00 | industrial | lol |
| 14:05.11 | jnwhiteh | The function signature isn't runnable Lua code |
| 14:05.19 | jnwhiteh | knowing that, it's relatively clear what is going on |
| 14:05.25 | jnwhiteh | but it could certainly be made clearer |
| 14:05.40 | jnwhiteh | the problem is when I have to display things in a single line, which I do have to do in a number of places |
| 14:05.47 | jnwhiteh | in those cases, this really is one of the best solutions |
| 14:05.48 | jnwhiteh | =( |
| 14:06.08 | Kraps | maintaining an ebay account for my mother and her friend is loooooooooooooool |
| 14:06.21 | industrial | ?? |
| 14:06.21 | Tentacled | Hmm. You know what I think is the clearest hallmark of code for me, personally? The fixed-width font used for the signature. |
| 14:06.39 | jnwhiteh | so if i made the sigantures be in <code> and the or be normal font |
| 14:06.41 | Tentacled | It suggests that it's one of those cutouts of Blizzard calls. |
| 14:06.43 | jnwhiteh | that's pretty easy for me to do. |
| 14:07.15 | Tentacled | Everyone and their brother puts those on WoW UI sites - how Blizzard UI calls their functions. |
| 14:07.28 | Tentacled | And those signatures of yours are not that. |
| 14:07.29 | jnwhiteh | but again |
| 14:07.30 | jnwhiteh | once you've seen it |
| 14:07.32 | jnwhiteh | and you know what it is |
| 14:07.33 | jnwhiteh | ... |
| 14:07.41 | jnwhiteh | I agree _on principle_ |
| 14:08.01 | Tentacled | Sure, but it's confusing for starters. ;P |
| 14:08.05 | Tentacled | Aaand, http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetSpellInfo |
| 14:08.10 | jnwhiteh | well, its explained int he book :P |
| 14:08.13 | Tentacled | now here I got totally confused ;P |
| 14:08.27 | jnwhiteh | why? |
| 14:08.29 | Tentacled | bookType, * pet * spell |
| 14:08.49 | jnwhiteh | those are the possible values for that argument |
| 14:08.52 | Tentacled | this suggests as if these were some sort of subtypes for the bookType argument, not literal string values |
| 14:09.02 | jnwhiteh | then i'l work on the display |
| 14:09.03 | Tentacled | they're displayed identically to the arguments in the list |
| 14:09.05 | jnwhiteh | I just don't have time for it right now. |
| 14:09.09 | jnwhiteh | its all still in a "get shit done" mode. |
| 14:09.12 | jnwhiteh | well |
| 14:09.13 | alestane | jnwhiteh: I do think that one might be clearer if they were listed as "pet" and "spell". |
| 14:09.14 | jnwhiteh | no, they're indented. |
| 14:09.25 | jnwhiteh | alestane: yes, its the fault of the documenter that its not. |
| 14:09.30 | jnwhiteh | and it should be BOOKTYPE_SPELL and BOOKTYPE_PET |
| 14:09.36 | jnwhiteh | but who is counting :P |
| 14:09.51 | alestane | WHich are just variables that happen to equal "pet" and "spell". |
| 14:09.58 | jnwhiteh | but they coudl change |
| 14:10.00 | jnwhiteh | they exist for a reason |
| 14:10.06 | jnwhiteh | and they're more meaningful |
| 14:10.18 | jnwhiteh | Just because a = 3 doesn't mean you can substitute 3 for a in all of your code :P |
| 14:10.41 | alestane | No, I understand this principle. |
| 14:10.48 | jnwhiteh | I know you do =) |
| 14:10.49 | tem | const int FIVE = 4; |
| 14:10.58 | jnwhiteh | :P |
| 14:11.13 | tem | I have a problem |
| 14:11.18 | tem | it's 9:13 am |
| 14:11.20 | Tentacled | #define TRUE FALSE |
| 14:11.23 | mikma | haha |
| 14:11.24 | tem | I'm awake |
| 14:11.25 | Lopeppeppy | Good morning, Tem. |
| 14:11.28 | boomnuts | any one play eve-online? |
| 14:11.58 | tem | and I haven't slept yesterday |
| 14:12.06 | tem | I'm 100% fucked on sleep schedule |
| 14:12.11 | tem | it needs to be fixed |
| 14:12.12 | tem | ASAP |
| 14:12.19 | tem | ideas? |
| 14:12.35 | alestane | Sleep? |
| 14:12.41 | Tentacled | actually, I'm wondering - is it some sort of addon that is broken on my part, or does Blizzard code indeed permit ridiculous talent previews, once >0 talent points have been actually spent? It seems to allow to remove points from talents required for further tiers... |
| 14:13.31 | tem | you have an addon breaking something |
| 14:13.44 | Tentacled | It won't allow to [Learn] such nonsense, but prevents it if the player has 0 talents used, and no longer prevents it when there are talents spent... |
| 14:13.47 | Tentacled | Hmm. |
| 14:13.48 | Tentacled | Odd. |
| 14:13.57 | Tentacled | I was sure I tested it on no addons. |
| 14:14.35 | Lopeppeppy | Tem, stay awake until after dinner, then take something and go to bed. If you must nap, do it before like... 2pm, or your nap will just screw up bedtime. |
| 14:15.20 | tem | I won't need something to go to bed after dinner |
| 14:15.24 | tem | but I wouldn't make it that long |
| 14:15.37 | Tentacled | powernap? |
| 14:15.38 | tem | and any attempt at napping right now would result in me waking up at 5pm |
| 14:16.07 | boomnuts | your like me |
| 14:16.08 | Lopeppeppy | Then you have to stay awake,end of story. Go for a walk, do active not-sitting-still things. |
| 14:16.29 | Legorol | powernap is a good solution too |
| 14:16.35 | Legorol | set all your alarm clocks to 12 noon |
| 14:16.40 | Legorol | and put them out of reach of your arms |
| 14:16.54 | Tentacled | as in, have a coffee, go to sleep for no more than 30 minutes so that caffeine clears up the drowsiness while you're not yet deep in sleep, and make sure to DO wake up 0.5h later? |
| 14:17.03 | Legorol | then make sure to get some exercise of at least half an hour in the afternoon or evening |
| 14:17.10 | Legorol | that will make you drop like a rock by midnight latest |
| 14:18.55 | tem | I think I'm going to bed |
| 14:19.01 | tem | and I'm setting my alarm for 2 |
| 14:19.08 | Lopeppeppy | Sleep well, set an alarm for like 1 or something. |
| 14:19.13 | tem | I'll probably snooze it until 3 |
| 14:19.22 | tem | but I don't do well on less than 8 hours |
| 14:19.28 | tem | so I'll surely be out early tomorrow |
| 14:23.09 | Ackis | asdf |
| 14:23.32 | Lopeppeppy | Bless you. |
| 14:24.07 | Ackis | why tahnk you |
| 14:24.47 | Fisker | slaps Ackis around a bit with a large trout |
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| 14:31.18 | Legorol | Amarande: ping. Re: the earlier discussion on availability (or lack of) tanks: |
| 14:31.51 | Legorol | I don't tihnk that repair bill is a major factor. However, tanks having the most stressful role to play in a 5-man, and often having to act as the leader and strategist in the group, does have to do with it. |
| 14:32.26 | Legorol | For a dps, you can just go in and shoot at stuff brainlessly. A healer has to pay attention, especially if shit hits the fan, which can be stressful, but most of the time it's not that bad. |
| 14:32.53 | Legorol | Whereas a tank has to know the instance inside out, know what order to pull in, how much he can pull, watch people's mana, cope with retarded dps that is overaggroing etc. |
| 14:33.14 | Legorol | I have played all three roles in many 5-mans and tanking is the only one that feels like work and requires active focus. |
| 14:33.30 | Legorol | Which is not necessarily what people want to do when they just want to relax and have some fun. |
| 14:34.52 | alestane | So in other words, it's the hardest role in which to go, "relax, guys, I got this." |
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| 14:35.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 14:36.20 | Legorol | A good analogy comes to mind: tanking a pug is like being the pace-setter at a long distance run, but being expected to win as well :o) |
| 14:37.21 | Lopeppeppy | Tanks and healers can never go "just for fun", they always have to pay attention. |
| 14:37.42 | Ackis | I wouldn't say a healer in a pug is a stress free role :P |
| 14:37.43 | Lopeppeppy | So when we want fun, we log into DPS alts, and you have no healers and no tanks! |
| 14:38.02 | Legorol | I agree, although I think tanks more than healers. If you outgear the content, the healer can often just spam group heals or has plenty time to react even if something goes wrong. |
| 14:38.14 | Legorol | Whereas a tank always has to pay attention to idiot dps who shoots at the wrong thing |
| 14:38.36 | Lopeppeppy | No, healers can never relax, trust me. |
| 14:38.39 | Legorol | I don't envy healers either |
| 14:38.54 | ZorbaTHut | tanks can definitely relax once they get geared enough |
| 14:39.09 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut, that's not my experience at all |
| 14:39.11 | ZorbaTHut | I spend heroics now going "ha ha, AOE, boom boom boom, hey let's grab some more monsters, see if I can wake the healer up, whee dead things" |
| 14:39.17 | Legorol | *especially* not with gear |
| 14:39.31 | ZorbaTHut | it might be that I'm grouping with guildies, so I can sort of assume they're competent |
| 14:39.31 | Legorol | because dps's threat scales with gear (and it seems, idiocy too) |
| 14:39.39 | Legorol | we are talking pugs here |
| 14:39.45 | Legorol | guild groups are very different |
| 14:39.51 | Legorol | i have fun in guild groups |
| 14:39.57 | Lopeppeppy | "wake the healer up" is why healers can't relax. |
| 14:40.01 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, that makes sense then |
| 14:40.13 | Legorol | we were talking about the usual story: why ist here a lack of tanks for pugs |
| 14:40.16 | Lopeppeppy | That is only a fun game once, then I just won't heal for that tank ever again. |
| 14:40.19 | ZorbaTHut | lope, I've had a few healers grumble that they're bored :P |
| 14:40.35 | Lopeppeppy | That's fine, if the healer asks for more work, their lookout. |
| 14:40.58 | ZorbaTHut | I actually had one healer who kept trying to find bigger challenges. at one point he went into UP with two tanks and two DPS, and stood in the middle while they beat down two separate groups of mobs |
| 14:41.00 | Legorol | when i tank a pug, the only way i can relax is if i decide not to give a damn |
| 14:41.09 | Legorol | i go in, do moderate aoe threat, if something goes loose, ignore it |
| 14:41.17 | Legorol | set a moderate pace, and ignore dps that QQs and wants to go faster |
| 14:41.58 | Legorol | ZorbaTHut: if the damage is predictable, it's not so stressful imo |
| 14:42.06 | Legorol | if you kno you have two tanks to keep up consistently, you can be ready for it |
| 14:42.31 | Legorol | it's the sudden bursts of "look, we pulled 3 extra groups, and 4 dps has aggro on 5 different mobs" moments that give healers grey hair |
| 14:42.46 | alestane | And tanks, for that matter. |
| 14:43.11 | Ackis | http://www.thelocal.se/22110/20090916/ everybody panic! |
| 14:43.30 | Legorol | i have another theory too |
| 14:43.43 | Legorol | which is that people who do decide to tank, if they happen to be in a raiding guild, tend to tank in raids |
| 14:43.52 | Legorol | i know there are exceptions, but most tanks that are mains are tanking in raids |
| 14:44.01 | Legorol | at which point, outside raids, you might want to do something different |
| 14:44.11 | zenzelezz | grumbles at "trying to map files from unnamed device 0x0001" |
| 14:44.14 | Legorol | whereas most people that enjoy dps tends to want to do it both in a raid and outside of it |
| 14:44.29 | Legorol | but this is an ageold debate |
| 14:44.39 | Legorol | and is why DKs didn't solve the issue |
| 14:45.40 | Lopeppeppy | Making druids and paladins and dks equally viable tanks has helped tons, but there will always be a shortage of people with the skill and patience to tank, and to heal. |
| 14:46.08 | *** join/#wowuidev zerda (n=chatzill@222.64.177.75) |
| 14:46.23 | Lopeppeppy | Ackis: guns don't kill people, people kill people. The issue isn't games, but people. I love the blame cycle! |
| 14:46.23 | zenzelezz | especially simultaneously |
| 14:46.50 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: I disagree |
| 14:47.15 | Lopeppeppy | A game in a box is not addictive. It has no chemical properties. |
| 14:47.57 | Ackis | you don't know what addiction is, and comparing killing someone with a gun to an addiction is apples/oranges |
| 14:48.33 | Lopeppeppy | Of course it is. But I certainly do know what addiction is, and I think the blame is misplaced, to say it is the fault of the object and not a flaw in the person. |
| 14:48.44 | Lopeppeppy | You cannot fix an object. People, however, can enter therapy and change. |
| 14:48.48 | Ackis | with smoking there have been studies that part of the whole addiction isn't just the drugs in the cig's, it's the process of doing the smoking |
| 14:49.07 | Ackis | you can always fix the object |
| 14:49.21 | Ackis | just society doesn't want to because they're focused on money |
| 14:49.36 | Lopeppeppy | Again... the issue being with people and their focus/values, not necessarily the object. |
| 14:49.57 | ZorbaTHut | "lost generation" - have we ever, in history, ended up with a "lost generation"? |
| 14:49.58 | Lopeppeppy | People can get addicted to hairspray... but the hairspray isn't the problem, the person is the problem. |
| 14:50.17 | Legorol | catch you later boys'n'girls |
| 14:52.21 | *** join/#wowuidev kneeki (n=chatzill@66.45.169.50) |
| 14:52.53 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
| 14:56.27 | zenzelezz | heya |
| 14:56.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@ip503d59c0.speed.planet.nl) |
| 14:57.26 | Lopeppeppy | heyo |
| 14:57.56 | Ackis | http://www.thoughtbludgeon.com/ anyone know of that band? |
| 14:58.14 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraioc_ (n=tomh@client0149.vpn.ox.ac.uk) |
| 14:58.47 | Wobin | I've almost fallen asleep while healing at times |
| 14:58.51 | Wobin | when I'm tired =P |
| 14:59.04 | Wobin | ... during htoc |
| 14:59.29 | Wobin | Ackis: My mother started eating a lot of snacks after giving up smoking |
| 14:59.31 | Lopeppeppy | Good for you! |
| 14:59.38 | Ackis | Wobin: back in MC/BWL days I had a macro that would scan the raid targets, and heal whoever was below a certain %. I'd put someone on autofollow and set up a keyboard click program hah |
| 14:59.50 | Lopeppeppy | Bad monkey |
| 14:59.50 | Wobin | Ackis: Drinky Bird! |
| 15:01.03 | Wobin | ...pandemic threat? |
| 15:01.32 | Wobin | wouldn't a pandemic imply a high level of transferable infection? |
| 15:01.43 | *** join/#wowuidev nicoli_coding (n=nsinkule@69.73.16.202) |
| 15:02.03 | Lopeppeppy | Yes. Yet another reason why I have issues with the article. It's drawing on the hype of h1n1 to induce a higher level of fear response in readers. |
| 15:02.23 | Wobin | It's completely the wrong word, it's terrible |
| 15:02.44 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: if I was scared, would you hug me? |
| 15:02.48 | Wobin | even if we accept it's a possible addiction, -pandemic- isn't even -related- |
| 15:03.05 | alestane | FUD...the media lives on it these days. |
| 15:04.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Lirad (i=1812c503@gateway/web/freenode/x-xgmvqwwzzaapbdqu) |
| 15:04.26 | Kraps | my brother wanted me to make a james hetfield lookalike in champions online, i dont think i'm succeeding :( |
| 15:05.16 | Wobin | what would his special power be? |
| 15:05.48 | Ackis | wicked |
| 15:05.50 | Ackis | cool |
| 15:05.53 | Ackis | asfasdflkasld;fkjasdflkajsflkasjflaskj |
| 15:05.54 | Lopeppeppy | zenzelezz, most likely. |
| 15:08.08 | Ackis | ahnyone know if SWOTR will support addons/etc? |
| 15:08.32 | Kraps | i saw a toon named 50 cent that was a really close copy of him |
| 15:10.21 | mikma | ackis: secret weapons of the raisins? |
| 15:10.42 | Ackis | star wars something something republic |
| 15:10.43 | Wobin | star wars the old republic |
| 15:10.54 | Wobin | Old The republic? |
| 15:11.20 | Ackis | :P |
| 15:11.26 | Ackis | you know i can't type workth shit |
| 15:12.40 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@76.212.99.109) |
| 15:15.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@ip-95-222-224-247.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 15:16.05 | Tresh | meh |
| 15:17.45 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 15:17.48 | Fisker | want to play sc2? |
| 15:18.09 | nicoli_coding | does |
| 15:18.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v nicoli_s] by ChanServ |
| 15:19.05 | Fisker | makes sure nicoli_s can't play sc2 :( |
| 15:19.55 | Ackis | SC2 is out? |
| 15:19.59 | Fisker | yes |
| 15:20.38 | nicoli_s | lies |
| 15:24.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 15:24.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 15:37.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 15:37.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 15:39.38 | kneeki | Where do you buy the deadly gladiators ring? wowhead says the guy in orgrimmar does, but doesn't seem to anymore |
| 15:45.06 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 15:52.50 | Seerah | kneeki: just checked on Thott, and it doesn't even have a ring on there |
| 15:53.09 | kneeki | it's on thott, but the two NPC's (horde side) that are supposed to carry it, dont |
| 15:53.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:53.45 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Lunessa-dear. |
| 15:53.55 | Seerah | ah, didn't come up in my search :/ |
| 15:54.04 | Lunessa | Station Lopeppeppy. |
| 15:54.19 | kneeki | wow, none of the NPC's in dalaran sewers carry it either |
| 15:54.25 | kneeki | Is it no longer purchasable? =( |
| 15:55.37 | Seerah | wowdb shows more locations.... http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=42115#sold-by |
| 15:55.41 | Seerah | shrugs |
| 15:56.17 | kneeki | Seerah: same locations as thott did, none of them carry it |
| 15:56.23 | Ackis | thotbotts your face! |
| 15:56.43 | Lopeppeppy | May have been a patch change, Kneeki... |
| 15:56.52 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:56.54 | kneeki | perhaps |
| 15:57.48 | Lopeppeppy | I'm not finding anythign easily on a google search, check the comments areas on the item in thot and wowhead, see if anyone has commented on availability. |
| 15:58.40 | kneeki | last comment on the ring from wowhead was during patch 3.1.3, no comments on thott either |
| 15:58.58 | Lopeppeppy | Beginning with season 7, players will no longer have access to the newest season's weapons or shoulder armor and will not qualify for the Gladiator title/rewards with ratings from the 2v2 bracket alone. -- Is this is? |
| 15:59.00 | kneeki | I made a forum post, to see if anyone can answer the question w/o flaming me |
| 15:59.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:01.18 | Kraps | Hitler finds out Kanye West Disses Taylor Swift at the VMAs |
| 16:02.04 | Ackis | who is kanye west? who is taylor swift? and what are VMAs? |
| 16:02.16 | Ackis | (I know who Hitler is) |
| 16:02.41 | Lunessa | Video Music Awards. Country-Pop singer, hip-hop singer. |
| 16:02.42 | Kraps | Ackis: you lie! |
| 16:03.06 | Seerah | he knows this, Lunessa :) |
| 16:03.12 | Seerah | ~lart Ackis |
| 16:03.12 | purl | pushes the wall down onto Ackis whilst whistling innocently |
| 16:04.08 | Lunessa | Well, Ackis is routinely misinformed or uniformed. I figured I'd help a brother out just this once. |
| 16:05.28 | Ackis | ok I knew what VMA was, wasn't sure |
| 16:05.34 | Ackis | taylor swift/west I didn't know |
| 16:05.40 | Seerah | seriously? |
| 16:05.44 | Ackis | yes |
| 16:05.47 | Seerah | what rock do you live under? :p :) |
| 16:05.58 | Ackis | I listen to classic rock stations |
| 16:06.13 | Seerah | so do I, mostly |
| 16:06.28 | Lunessa | Honestly, I didn't know who they were until every news outlet in the US had commentary about the 'incident.' |
| 16:06.45 | Ackis | I stopped watching the news since it's utter crap 99% of the time |
| 16:07.10 | Seerah | maybe it's just my connection to the "younger generation". Most of my voice students have wanted to do a taylor swift song at least once |
| 16:07.52 | Ackis | I only figured out hannah montana and miley cirus are the same person |
| 16:07.58 | Ackis | *recently figured out |
| 16:07.59 | Lunessa | I'm assuming you don't have a lot of young male students who just wanted to 'do Taylor Swift.' |
| 16:08.04 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:08.36 | Seerah | fave Kanye West song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jzSh_MLNcY fave Taylor Swift song: ... eh... I don't have a favorite... http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=taylor+swift&search_type=&aq=0&oq=taylor |
| 16:08.47 | Seerah | ~lart Lunessa |
| 16:08.47 | purl | beats Lunessa into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy |
| 16:09.37 | Lopeppeppy | AFK lunchings! |
| 16:11.42 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@70.154.141.184) |
| 16:11.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 16:13.54 | ZorbaTHut | only one more Arena Master badge left |
| 16:20.52 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:21.07 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 16:22.52 | Ackis | Fisker: I told you not to e-mail me sheesh! (just got an e-mail about ORAL TEEN SEX!!!) :P |
| 16:23.42 | ArrowmasterClass | i better pass this class with an A considering the teacher has no fucking clue what hes doing, otherwise im gona be pissed and goto the dean |
| 16:24.02 | kneeki | yay! I can make my Aion character tomorrow =) |
| 16:24.09 | ArrowmasterClass | hes doing things that are blatently wrong |
| 16:25.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 16:26.49 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=KarlKFI@ip68-231-217-61.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 16:27.30 | Codayus | Wrong as in...2+2=5, or wrong as in dangerous, or wrong as in abusing his position? |
| 16:30.25 | ZorbaTHut | or wrong as in bending the laws of reality? |
| 16:31.40 | Lopeppeppy | ArrowmasterClass, why not go to the department chair right now, be proactive? |
| 16:32.23 | Lopeppeppy | Deans can't do much for you after the fact, without serious proof, but a department chair can do something right this very now, usually. |
| 16:33.19 | ArrowmasterClass | perty sure everybody knows this guy is a fucking idiot |
| 16:33.29 | ArrowmasterClass | but hes a full time teacher |
| 16:34.02 | Ackis | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/funny-pictures-kid-reaches-alcohol.jpg <-- I lawled, I kid you not |
| 16:34.11 | alestane | These two facts are by no means exclusive of each other. |
| 16:34.42 | ArrowmasterClass | this is the same teacher that another teacher i had sat in a classroom next to and kept remotely rebooting all the computers in his lab because they didnt have admin passwords set, and this guy thought something had to be wrong with the power |
| 16:35.14 | alestane | I think I understand that sentence. |
| 16:35.40 | nevcairiel | I don't think i do |
| 16:35.46 | ArrowmasterClass | fuck yesterday was the last day to withdraw for a full refund |
| 16:36.27 | Lopeppeppy | ArrowmasterClass, go talk to the department chair today. If you're that concerned, he could work with the registrar about withdrawls. IF you do it now, maybe. |
| 16:36.37 | Codayus | Worst professor I ever had was tenured. Ended up disputing a grade after the fact, but... *shrug* Lopeppeppy is right, mostly the best you can expect from the dean or whatever is that they'll verify he added the test scored up correctly. |
| 16:36.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0228.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:37.28 | ArrowmasterClass | no i know for a fact i will not learn anything from him, i will have to learn everything on my own |
| 16:38.23 | ArrowmasterClass | we are using vmware and he fucking had us create a dual boot VM with the same OS on both partitions instead of just fucking cloning one VM into two |
| 16:38.32 | Codayus | Heh |
| 16:38.58 | Codayus | At least he isn't telling you graphic details about his love life. >.< |
| 16:38.58 | sylvanaar | a dual boot vm, nice |
| 16:40.04 | sylvanaar | i hated college - i couldnt get out fast enough |
| 16:40.07 | Codayus | I mean, really, if I wanted to know if a prof is dating a porno director and how great they are in bed, I would have ASKED... |
| 16:40.39 | sylvanaar | did he offer to show you videos? |
| 16:40.46 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 16:41.01 | nevcairiel | its a director, not an actor <.< |
| 16:41.03 | Codayus | She, and no. |
| 16:41.09 | Lunessa | ... I don't want to think about most people doing the horizontal mambo. It makes me feel decidedly unlibidinous. |
| 16:41.18 | ArrowmasterClass | yeah hes a fucking idiot, he just told us windows 2003 server only supported 4GB of ram |
| 16:41.19 | durcyn | Codayus: ob: is she hot? |
| 16:41.23 | ArrowmasterClass | which is fucking wrong |
| 16:41.28 | Codayus | ArrowmasterClass: Oh dear. |
| 16:41.57 | durcyn | what the hell kind of college are you at that actual has sysadmin-esque classes, anyway |
| 16:41.58 | Codayus | Lunessa: Indeed. |
| 16:42.08 | durcyn | last time i set on campus they were still learning how to spell MIS |
| 16:42.10 | kdtresh | i had an instructor tell me the only way to communicate across the ocean was via satellite |
| 16:42.13 | durcyn | set foot* |
| 16:42.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 16:43.06 | ArrowmasterClass | durcyn: i got a full CISCO CCNA classes in highschool |
| 16:43.15 | sylvanaar | ArrowmasterClass he was right sorta |
| 16:43.28 | Codayus | ...I had an accounting professor try explain options incorrectly. Which wouldn't have been so bad if it hadn't been a graduate level class. |
| 16:43.49 | kdtresh | i had an econ professor who spent the whole semester drawing the supply/demand graph on the board |
| 16:43.50 | sylvanaar | win2k3 did only support 4G |
| 16:43.51 | durcyn | ArrowmasterClass: i got, uh, pascal in high school. you've got it better than you think =P |
| 16:43.52 | Codayus | ...got, I'm typing badly tonight. He tried to explain options, and got it wrong. |
| 16:43.54 | kdtresh | the same graph, no numbers |
| 16:44.04 | kdtresh | just a big x, every day |
| 16:44.06 | durcyn | sylvanaar: win2k3's /PAE boot switch actually works |
| 16:44.19 | Ackis | durcyn: I didn't think fire was invented when you were in school! BURN! |
| 16:44.21 | ArrowmasterClass | sylvanaar: standard only supports 4gb, other versions support higher |
| 16:44.33 | kdtresh | i've got server 2003 standard running 8gb ram |
| 16:44.38 | durcyn | Ackis: Pascal was invented before fire. |
| 16:44.46 | kdtresh | 32-bit |
| 16:44.51 | nevcairiel | 2003 can support up to 32/64 GB ( depending on version ) with PAE |
| 16:44.51 | Ackis | touche |
| 16:44.52 | durcyn | actually, fire was invented so that Pascal might be lit on fire. |
| 16:44.54 | Codayus | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx |
| 16:44.55 | sylvanaar | ArrowmasterClass yeah |
| 16:45.16 | ArrowmasterClass | datacenter supports upto 128gb |
| 16:45.34 | Lunessa | durcyn: You got Pascal? I had to make do with BASIC. We would have KILLED for PASCAL. |
| 16:46.12 | sylvanaar | my cs intro courses were pascall |
| 16:46.34 | ArrowmasterClass | i only got BASIC in my normal highschool, i had to transfer to a special school to get the CISCO CCNA classes |
| 16:46.43 | sylvanaar | what a horrible language |
| 16:47.05 | Codayus | We did Java. I...guess that might be better than Pascal...maybe? |
| 16:47.12 | sylvanaar | *but* now they use java |
| 16:47.17 | Lunessa | At least you didn't have to do COBOL or LISP in high school |
| 16:47.24 | nevcairiel | we did pascal/delphi, tcl, c, java |
| 16:47.29 | sylvanaar | which is as bad or worse |
| 16:47.29 | ArrowmasterClass | i kinda wrote the most advanced BASIC program the teach had ever seen.... |
| 16:47.42 | nevcairiel | they changed tcl for ruby now, or so i heard .. but after my time |
| 16:48.17 | sylvanaar | (well anything < Java 5) |
| 16:48.19 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoGyhWAi5fA nsfw |
| 16:48.57 | ArrowmasterClass | tcl is kinda dead |
| 16:49.04 | sylvanaar | i agree |
| 16:49.22 | Codayus | True |
| 16:49.25 | sylvanaar | its python or ruby |
| 16:51.01 | sylvanaar | my brain still cant handle the python syntax |
| 16:51.18 | Adys | why? |
| 16:51.23 | sylvanaar | i dunno |
| 16:51.48 | Adys | apart from the indent syntax, everything else is completely logical |
| 16:52.00 | sylvanaar | there's nothing wrong with it |
| 16:52.16 | Adys | and even the indent syntax is very logical |
| 16:52.38 | sylvanaar | i just have a hard time with it |
| 16:53.39 | Adys | such as what? |
| 16:54.16 | ArrowmasterClass | i have issues with it too but i havent spent a lot of time trying to learn it |
| 16:54.32 | sylvanaar | yeah me either |
| 16:54.34 | ArrowmasterClass | but maybe its just ckk's python code i have trouble with |
| 16:54.47 | Adys | maybe it's just ckk you have trouble with ! |
| 16:54.59 | ArrowmasterClass | although im probably one of the few people that understands his lua code perfectly |
| 16:55.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:55.39 | ArrowmasterClass | well for the parts that are possible to make sense of |
| 16:58.32 | Lopeppeppy | I have a very serious boredom.... |
| 16:58.50 | KarlKFI|work | weren't you like busy yesterday? |
| 16:59.21 | Adys | KarlKFI: so if you're busy you can't be bored? |
| 16:59.30 | KarlKFI|work | >.> yes |
| 16:59.33 | Adys | and to a second level if you're busy one day you can't be bored the next day? |
| 16:59.35 | Lunessa | Arrowmaster: Understanding CKK is simple. He's young, clever, and likes shots or Baccardi 151 rum. |
| 16:59.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 16:59.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 16:59.50 | Adys | and to a third level, if you're not bored... you're probably busy |
| 17:00.07 | Lunessa | The rum explains his coding... |
| 17:00.10 | Adys | that, to a fourth level means that you can't EVER be bored if you've been busy once in your life |
| 17:00.40 | Codayus | Adys: I think you're overthinking this. Are you bored? :-) |
| 17:00.41 | KarlKFI|work | stops listening |
| 17:00.56 | Adys | I'm not! |
| 17:01.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 17:01.14 | Ackis | Adys: go find out info on the new pets for me :P |
| 17:01.23 | Ackis | fetch booboo fetch! |
| 17:02.20 | Adys | the pandaren monk is bought 10 gold from breanni |
| 17:02.30 | Adys | </leak> |
| 17:02.41 | Codayus | ...really? |
| 17:03.01 | Ackis | I have for farm 10g gold for that? wtf blizz! sheesh! |
| 17:03.09 | Lunessa | see mmo-champion for information. |
| 17:03.21 | Ackis | Lunessa: or ask Adys |
| 17:03.41 | Lunessa | Ackis when I want your opinion, I'll give it to you. |
| 17:03.46 | Ackis | pfft |
| 17:04.02 | sylvanaar | have any of you guys done the toc pvp fight in hard-mode |
| 17:04.17 | Adys | yeah |
| 17:04.28 | Ackis | I got a big lore boner over the new star wars mmo after old server people from SWG contacted me |
| 17:04.34 | Adys | instead of facing different classes you face 3 DKs and 3 ret pallies |
| 17:04.34 | sylvanaar | who did you kill first |
| 17:04.46 | sylvanaar | meh |
| 17:04.57 | sylvanaar | im being serious |
| 17:05.28 | sylvanaar | oh 25-man hard mode |
| 17:06.08 | Adys | 1. Can you confirm or deny whether or not the Wolpertinger will be sold for gold this year or tickets? |
| 17:06.08 | Adys | For our region, the quest should be back. |
| 17:06.10 | Adys | what the fuck |
| 17:06.16 | Adys | "For our region" |
| 17:06.55 | Lopeppeppy | I think the answer is that it will be a quest, not gold, and not tickets. |
| 17:07.11 | Adys | yeah that part I understood |
| 17:07.18 | Adys | its the "For our region" that cracks me off |
| 17:07.23 | Codayus | Heh |
| 17:08.09 | Lopeppeppy | Perhaps it is "our", if the person answering is in the same region? *shrug* |
| 17:08.48 | Ackis | thinks Adys should post a news story about Ackis LFG that will get him all the achievements/mounts in the game without having to dedicate time to raiding/content :P |
| 17:14.42 | sylvanaar | adys - you wanted an example """text""" <-- my brain can't handle looking at that |
| 17:14.59 | KarlKFI|work | blockquote fail |
| 17:15.53 | sylvanaar | i like how lua and c# do it |
| 17:16.10 | KarlKFI|work | it's no weirder than Lua's: [<->[text]<->] |
| 17:16.33 | sylvanaar | well usually lua is [[text]] |
| 17:16.51 | KarlKFI|work | :P yes but it COULD be ["""[text]"""] |
| 17:17.35 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 17:17.38 | KarlKFI|work | but yeah, a triple double quote is kinda weird |
| 17:18.07 | sylvanaar | c# is @"text" |
| 17:18.15 | KarlKFI|work | but at least it still looks like a string, whereas [[text]] doesn't |
| 17:18.28 | Ackis | so with lua's 200 local variable limit, does that count anything in do/end blocks or is it just 200 max for the total number of locals declared for the amin scope of the file? |
| 17:18.32 | alestane | Doesn't Python use those """ for docstrings or something? |
| 17:18.49 | KarlKFI|work | """ is multiline string |
| 17:19.04 | sylvanaar | like [[ ]] in lua |
| 17:19.13 | foxlit | Ackis: Never actually managed to hit that. On the other hand, upvalues have bit me before. |
| 17:19.29 | sylvanaar | """ is that beginning or ending? |
| 17:19.33 | KarlKFI|work | both |
| 17:19.49 | sylvanaar | that might be what i dont like |
| 17:19.57 | Ackis | foxlit: I hit 200 in collectinator trying to make the flags easy to use |
| 17:20.14 | KarlKFI|work | 200 flags O.O |
| 17:20.23 | foxlit | :/ |
| 17:20.26 | foxlit | Tables, silly. |
| 17:20.35 | sylvanaar | do you need 200 lexically scoped vars - yeah use a tabel |
| 17:20.59 | KarlKFI|work | tabEL, it's the french way to say it |
| 17:21.08 | Ackis | it would add a table lookup to the overhead which I was trying to avoid... and there's only about 100-150 flags, the rest were declaring things like table.insert as local |
| 17:21.21 | KarlKFI|work | lol table lookup overhead |
| 17:21.23 | sylvanaar | im rdp'ed and the link is slow |
| 17:21.29 | KarlKFI|work | that's like the cheepest overhead ever |
| 17:22.18 | KarlKFI|work | avoiding table lookup is like avoiding OO cause it's expensive |
| 17:22.24 | Ackis | it would add up for the database generation |
| 17:22.53 | sylvanaar | you'd have to give an example i guess |
| 17:23.06 | KarlKFI|work | optimizing the wong thing |
| 17:23.46 | foxlit | What is it, a factor 10 difference? |
| 17:25.09 | foxlit | meh, less. |
| 17:26.35 | Ackis | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/125316 |
| 17:27.31 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 17:27.33 | Ackis | there's another 50 or so flags missing frm that pastey |
| 17:27.45 | KarlKFI|work | *cringe* |
| 17:28.00 | theorbtwo | wonders why the mechanical squirel box is marked F_UNUSED. |
| 17:28.19 | Ackis | theorbtwo: copypaste error :P |
| 17:29.59 | industrial | ~seen Tuller |
| 17:30.03 | purl | tuller <n=muffins@pool-96-248-0-53.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 4d 22h 22m 10s ago, saying: 'Cide: per the windows calculator 155'. |
| 17:30.08 | industrial | sigh~~ |
| 17:30.09 | Ackis | KarlKFI|work: in ARL all those flags are just numbers, declaring them as locals makes it easier to work with (also adds a bit of overhead but I'll deal with that later) |
| 17:30.59 | foxlit | So what do you actually use them for? |
| 17:31.18 | theorbtwo | Generally, if you have to code by copying and pasting, it's a pretty sure sign you are doing it wrong. |
| 17:31.21 | sylvanaar | you need a preprocesor |
| 17:31.24 | KarlKFI|work | you're adding 3 function overheads for each pet, i dunno why you're worrying about table lookups |
| 17:31.26 | *** join/#wowuidev audible (i=9fab5092@gateway/web/freenode/x-eearicrwotujffph) |
| 17:31.35 | audible | Hello people |
| 17:32.00 | sylvanaar | i'd just preprocess the file |
| 17:32.05 | kneeki | audible: alo |
| 17:32.07 | Ackis | sylvanaar: that's what I thought about tbh |
| 17:32.13 | industrial | ~seen tekkub |
| 17:32.14 | purl | tekkub <n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 9h 46m 14s ago, saying: 'might not actually work'. |
| 17:32.28 | Ackis | KarlKFI|work: I had it as one function passing tables and was yelled at way back when :P |
| 17:32.30 | theorbtwo | For example, you seem to have no concise way of saying not-profession-dependent. |
| 17:32.31 | foxlit | And I wouldn't use numbers unless you actually intended to bitmask them, which you aren't. |
| 17:32.51 | audible | foxlit : why bitmask ? |
| 17:33.14 | audible | faster? |
| 17:33.15 | KarlKFI|work | so you're not storing a bajillion variables in memory... |
| 17:33.46 | Ackis | theorbtwo: all profession flags exist -> non-profession-dependant however it's something that annoys me |
| 17:33.49 | KarlKFI|work | bitmasking is slower but less memory. and it's constant time look up so it's not THAT much slower |
| 17:33.54 | sylvanaar | they are just symbolic constants |
| 17:34.04 | audible | ah, i want speed |
| 17:34.13 | audible | my shit doesnt take that much space as long as globals are kept down |
| 17:34.20 | theorbtwo | Ackis: It's a problem of efficency and of readability. The best way is probably a preprocessor -- make the readable code not be the code that gets executed by anybody other then you. |
| 17:34.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Norsken (n=xkxaxn@84-217-9-130.tn.glocalnet.net) |
| 17:34.26 | foxlit | Searching for a particular combination is easier, though not necessarily in Lua. |
| 17:34.34 | theorbtwo | Ackis: Yeah, no *concise* way. |
| 17:35.37 | foxlit | Tbh, something-delimited strings that gmatch into tables, and be done with it. |
| 17:36.35 | theorbtwo | would use a series of flags and bitmasks, but I'm not sure I'd call it great code. |
| 17:38.01 | sylvanaar | since the locals are just there for readability - you would get better performance by preprocessing them out so they are just literals |
| 17:38.03 | Ackis | my main concern was always about readability, how can I make the db maintenance easier when I get hit by a bus/jump out my office window, but I've tried to optimize as much as I can /shrug |
| 17:38.45 | sylvanaar | put the preprocessing code in a comment |
| 17:39.16 | Ackis | bitmasks were slow and the main issue I had was I didn't know how to do them in lua at all |
| 17:39.34 | Ackis | sylvanaar: wouldn't that have to be done via an external script of some sort? |
| 17:39.41 | sylvanaar | Ackis yes |
| 17:39.44 | ZorbaTHut | ackis, what I'd do is set it up so that if it's marked as neither ALLIANCE nor HORDE, it's assumed to be both |
| 17:39.52 | ZorbaTHut | same deal with crafting skills |
| 17:39.56 | sylvanaar | use lua on your machine |
| 17:40.04 | Pneumatus | you'd have to do something like PT3 does with it's compresssplit.lua |
| 17:40.08 | ZorbaTHut | you can just wrap that into the AddCompanionFlags function, or write another function that calls AddCompanionSkills but does that processing |
| 17:40.22 | Pneumatus | which takes the fat (but pretty) data.lua and puts it into files actually used by WoW |
| 17:40.38 | Lopeppeppy | Windows 7 for 30 bucks for college students. Interesting! http://gizmodo.com/5361767/students-get-windows-7-home-premium-for-30 |
| 17:40.55 | Pneumatus | although, all the PT3 preprocessor does is remove unneccesary spaces |
| 17:41.02 | Pneumatus | and put the right stuff in the right files |
| 17:43.26 | Ackis | any suggestions on how to move from 3 functions to a single function per db entry? |
| 17:43.53 | Fisker | meh Lopeppeppy |
| 17:44.08 | Fisker | that's almost how cheap it was without being a student when the preorder startet :P |
| 17:44.11 | Fisker | started* |
| 17:44.38 | Pneumatus | home premium :< |
| 17:47.01 | KarlKFI|work | "or you at least have a working email address from a university (thanks, my old college!)" |
| 17:47.02 | ZorbaTHut | ackis, AddPet{petID, spellID, "common", "original", flags = {"alliance", "inscription"}, acquire = {"mob", 1223}} |
| 17:47.33 | ZorbaTHut | omit "flags" entirely if it's a general pet, omit "alliance" or "inscription" if it's non-faction or non-profession |
| 17:48.10 | Ackis | won't that generate a lot of garbage? |
| 17:48.23 | ZorbaTHut | like a hundred K? maybe two hundred K? honestly it is just not an issue. |
| 17:48.36 | *** part/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 17:48.43 | Ackis | I thought the table's would? |
| 17:48.43 | foxlit | The question is, what are you actually going to store internally? |
| 17:48.50 | ZorbaTHut | your coding time is more important than a bit of RAM. |
| 17:48.52 | foxlit | Do you just look up the pet data by ID? |
| 17:48.54 | ZorbaTHut | tables aren't all that large. |
| 17:48.58 | foxlit | Do you allow people to search for things? |
| 17:49.09 | Ackis | foxlit: yah it looks up by ID, people can search based off of any number of things |
| 17:49.57 | foxlit | So engineer a structure that you can search easier. |
| 17:50.13 | ZorbaTHut | IMHO, make the database as human-readable and simple as possible |
| 17:50.18 | ZorbaTHut | computers are fast, they can transform quickly |
| 17:50.19 | foxlit | The one time cost of generating a few hundred entries isn't going to eat anyone. |
| 17:50.20 | Lunessa | Seriously - who buys a bluetooth printer. I mean, REALLY. |
| 17:50.31 | foxlit | Lunessa: but I can print stuff from my phone! |
| 17:50.57 | Lunessa | foxlit: If you need to print from your phone, your phone has ceased to be a phone. |
| 17:50.57 | Lopeppeppy | ... yeah. |
| 17:51.05 | Ackis | people will still complain, they always do heh |
| 17:51.13 | NeoTron | last night, this huge spider was trying to attack us. it was sitting biding its time on the ceiling above the bed |
| 17:51.31 | ZorbaTHut | sure, which is sorta the point |
| 17:51.35 | foxlit | NeoTron: have you noticed how the spiders always vanish when the sun rises above the horizon? |
| 17:51.36 | ZorbaTHut | they *always* complain |
| 17:51.41 | ZorbaTHut | so just flip 'em off and keep coding :P |
| 17:51.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (n=TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 17:51.45 | NeoTron | vampire spiders! |
| 17:51.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:52.12 | Ackis | lol |
| 17:52.40 | Lunessa | ZorbaTHut: That's right. Do not bow to the tyranny of the masses. |
| 17:53.01 | ZorbaTHut | if people put up with QH burning 15-25mb, they'll put up with 100k from some other mod ;) |
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| 18:10.12 | alestane | Anyone have any experience with Luxinia? |
| 18:11.05 | Ackis | I think I have tendonitis in every tendon in my body |
| 18:12.59 | Lopeppeppy | Ackis, I think you have the flu. |
| 18:13.35 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: bronchitis |
| 18:13.43 | Lopeppeppy | I was close. |
| 18:14.09 | Ackis | seems I always get it |
| 18:14.40 | Ackis | but I have tendonitis in my shoulder/elbow/wrist and recently (past few months) knee and hip have been giving me issues |
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| 18:15.03 | Lopeppeppy | Get thee to a doctor, Ackis! |
| 18:15.20 | Ackis | they'll give me anti inflamitories which won't work :P |
| 18:15.29 | Ackis | (and I have an appt tomorrow to help w/ bronchitis :P) |
| 18:15.40 | Ackis | if I was a horse I'd shoot myself! |
| 18:16.26 | foxlit | If you were a horse, you'd be unable to shoot yourself. |
| 18:16.37 | Ackis | I'd be a shooting horse |
| 18:16.44 | Ackis | like Mr Ed but one that shoots and doesn't talk |
| 18:16.55 | Lopeppeppy | When you're in for the bronchitis, tell him about the tendonitis too, silly |
| 18:17.07 | NeoTron | Since there are shooting _stars_. Surely a shooting horse isn't that far fetched |
| 18:17.18 | NeoTron | I mean, how would a start even be able to hold a gun without it melting? |
| 18:17.35 | Ackis | it's amazing how bad your health gets after sitting inside for 16 months |
| 18:18.03 | NeoTron | I've been sitting inside for a better part of the last 15-20 years. I don't believe you :P |
| 18:18.24 | NeoTron | Correlation does not imply causation |
| 18:18.32 | Ackis | :P |
| 18:18.45 | Cide | I call myself a vampire nowadays; sunlight is downright deadly |
| 18:18.50 | Shirik | ^ |
| 18:19.00 | alestane | Barring Luxinia, anyone tried the Baja engine at all? |
| 18:19.43 | NeoTron | "The murdered played violent games, thus we know violent games causes people to commit murders". har har |
| 18:19.52 | NeoTron | s/murdered/murderer/ |
| 18:20.29 | alestane | ~wiki Correlation does not equal causation |
| 18:20.47 | NeoTron | In college I went and had dinner at a fast food place a few times. For some odd reason they were only serving dinner at the time |
| 18:20.58 | *** join/#wowuidev nevcairiel (i=nevcairi@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) |
| 18:20.58 | alestane | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation |
| 18:21.10 | NeoTron | man fail |
| 18:21.20 | NeoTron | serving _breakfast_ mean |
| 18:21.34 | *** join/#wowuidev nevcairiel (i=nevcairi@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) |
| 18:21.40 | NeoTron | my college "days" used to have around 30+ hours in them |
| 18:21.56 | foxlit | "The murderer was a human, so we know all humans are murderers" << problem solved. |
| 18:22.04 | NeoTron | foxlit: indeed! |
| 18:25.53 | Lunessa | If a = b = c then naturally c = a - sadly the assumption of equality is only that. |
| 18:26.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 18:26.39 | ZorbaTHut | unless the transitive property holds. |
| 18:26.55 | Rabbitbunny | How long have mounts been able to swim? |
| 18:27.09 | foxlit | 3.1 |
| 18:27.21 | Rabbitbunny | insane. |
| 18:27.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:30.41 | alestane | As the logic professor says, universal affirmatives can be only partially converted. |
| 18:31.18 | alestane | "All X are also Y" implies "Some Y are also X" but not "All Y are also X". |
| 18:31.28 | Adys | THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AWESOME |
| 18:31.39 | Adys | why didn't anyone tell me the zergling pet nukes grunty :P |
| 18:31.41 | kdtresh | but do trout live in trees? |
| 18:32.07 | alestane | I'd heard that the murloc Marine and the Zergling will duke it out. |
| 18:32.35 | Lunessa | Need to find me a friend with a Zergling |
| 18:32.55 | Cide | or |
| 18:32.57 | Arrowmaster | so i almost burst into laughter when i got out of my car just now infront of my house |
| 18:33.11 | Cide | a -> b != b -> a |
| 18:33.18 | Rabbitbunny | fat man on a skateboard? |
| 18:33.28 | Ackis | fyi 200 local error applies to scoped locals as well |
| 18:33.51 | kdtresh | a -> b = ~b -> ~a though |
| 18:33.54 | foxlit | In that any particular scope cannot have more than 200 locals? |
| 18:34.09 | Arrowmaster | new neighbors moved in across the street not long ago and i knew they had a dog but hadnt seen it, i hear this loud deep barking and look over and only see this tiny little yipper standing at the screen door |
| 18:34.30 | Seerah | big dog trapped in a little body |
| 18:34.31 | Cide | kdtresh: yep |
| 18:34.34 | Arrowmaster | then i realized there was this big black dog at another window |
| 18:34.38 | Seerah | ohhh |
| 18:35.26 | Arrowmaster | no theres now way at all by laws of nature for this tiny dog to have been making this loud deep barking, its just physically impossible |
| 18:36.55 | kdtresh | maybe he has a voicechanger collar hooked up to a loudspeaker |
| 18:37.23 | Cide | kdtresh: contrapositives should be used more often |
| 18:37.49 | Cide | "if I sit inside too much, my back will start hurting" ... "since my back isn't hurting, I'm not sitting inside too much" |
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| 18:38.12 | kdtresh | heh |
| 18:38.31 | kdtresh | would definitely require more cognitive ability to carry on conversations |
| 18:39.11 | kdtresh | intellectual pig latin |
| 18:41.39 | Rabbitbunny | Hmm. Rating gear is much harder than I thought. |
| 18:41.42 | Lunessa | Lewis Carroll tried to teach that lesson in Alice In Wonderland. |
| 18:41.49 | Rabbitbunny | Is there a lib that could do it? |
| 18:42.36 | kdtresh | Rabbitbunny: depends on what you mean by "rating" |
| 18:42.44 | Tepel | There are various rating methods |
| 18:42.50 | Lopeppeppy | There's many gear rating addons already. |
| 18:42.52 | Tepel | AEP, EH etc |
| 18:43.01 | kdtresh | ratingbuster, pawn |
| 18:43.10 | Tepel | ratingbuster just compares all stats |
| 18:43.27 | Tepel | It doesn't condense them into a single number, which is what I'm assuming he wants |
| 18:43.31 | kdtresh | pawn lets you set weights for individual stats |
| 18:44.00 | kdtresh | so if you think str is worth 2.3x attack power, you can set ap to 1 and str to 2.3 |
| 18:44.04 | kdtresh | for example |
| 18:44.22 | Lopeppeppy | There is no single number, thank the stars... I prefer how rating buster does it, so I can see if something is an increase in just intellect, but a decrease in mp5, etc. |
| 18:44.42 | kdtresh | i also prefer ratingbuster |
| 18:44.43 | foxlit | Lopeppeppy: "awesomeness rating" |
| 18:45.17 | kdtresh | but if you get good scales in pawn, it can be helpful |
| 18:46.16 | Rabbitbunny | Hmm, I kinda need the single number. |
| 18:46.48 | kdtresh | give pawn a shot, and try to find a couple scales for your class/spec |
| 18:46.50 | Lopeppeppy | GFL. Look up gear addons on the various sites, see what's out there. You may have to see how other addons do it, to code your own for that single number. |
| 18:47.16 | foxlit | There's One Right Way(tm) to do it. |
| 18:47.27 | Rabbitbunny | They don't already take class and spec into consideration? |
| 18:47.27 | Pneumatus | s/One/No/ |
| 18:47.41 | alestane | You can go off of item level to a certain extent, but that doesn't tell you whether it's the right piece of gear for you, only whether Blizzard consideres it better than another piece of gear with similarly proportioned stats. |
| 18:47.48 | kdtresh | well, pawn is just a tool that lets you set values of stats |
| 18:48.06 | kdtresh | a "scale" is just a collection of those values |
| 18:48.11 | Seerah | :( http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090917/ap_on_en_tv/us_obit_henry_gibson |
| 18:48.23 | Lunessa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNanKfY5T9A -SFW |
| 18:48.25 | Rabbitbunny | Well, gonna have to write it myself then. |
| 18:48.28 | kdtresh | when you see a piece of gear, it will take the stats of the gear, multiply them by your weights, and sum up the total |
| 18:49.25 | kdtresh | so if your spec relies more on crit and doesn't have mana problems, you can set the weight for crit much higher than the weight for mp5 |
| 18:49.47 | kdtresh | and with all other things being equal, the one with crit will have a higher "score" |
| 18:49.57 | kdtresh | i think that "score" is what you're looking for |
| 18:50.30 | kdtresh | if you google "pawn scale" + your class/spec, you should find scales people have set up |
| 18:50.48 | kdtresh | you can modify them if you want, make your own, whatever |
| 18:50.59 | kdtresh | or you can take the time to write your own addon that does pretty much the same thing |
| 18:52.13 | Lunessa | Seerah: "A Flower" By Henry Gibson. |
| 18:54.08 | sylvanaar | Ackis i was bored at work, heres your code using luapp http://wowuidev.pastey.net/125321 -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/125322 |
| 18:55.12 | Lopeppeppy | Sad thing is, knowing that it's a better piece of gear than the last piece only tells you it's better overall, but not *why*. If you're balancing stats for intellect, crit, hit rating... you'll be missing out. |
| 18:55.19 | foxlit | uapp - 1 definition - v. luaps, luap-ing, luaped 1. To lead a person on thinking that they have a chance in starting a relationship with you. |
| 18:55.36 | foxlit | Everything's a word nowadays. |
| 18:55.47 | kdtresh | and, it doesn't account for "ok, i'm already hit capped, so i don't need any more hit" |
| 18:55.51 | Lopeppeppy | You'd have to constantly re-write the formula to accomodate which stat you most need in your gear at any one time. Guess that's why I prefer the way Ratingbuster does it, gives me more flexibility when mixing and matching gear. |
| 18:56.00 | kdtresh | so you often have to have one scale for hit capped and one for not |
| 18:56.06 | Pneumatus | or Rawr, for oog :) |
| 18:56.07 | Lopeppeppy | ^ what kdtresh |
| 18:56.10 | Lopeppeppy | ^said |
| 18:56.11 | sylvanaar | whats uapp? |
| 18:56.43 | foxlit | sylvanaar: prefix it with an L; I'm missing the word boundary selection logic. |
| 18:56.57 | sylvanaar | oh |
| 18:57.32 | sylvanaar | http://lua-users.org/wiki/SlightlyLessSimpleLuaPreprocessor |
| 18:58.30 | industrial | so there I was right |
| 18:58.32 | Ackis | sylvanaar: so you just run the code (from that wiki) on the file (125321) and it'll ouput 125322? |
| 18:58.33 | industrial | in a raid. |
| 18:58.37 | foxlit | preprocessors are an abomination. |
| 18:58.38 | sylvanaar | Ackis yes |
| 18:58.44 | industrial | a girl called me. |
| 18:58.56 | industrial | so I tell her 'I'm in a raid call you back ok?' and she totally understood |
| 18:58.59 | industrial | cause she raids too |
| 18:58.59 | Ackis | wicked |
| 18:59.01 | industrial | thats a first! |
| 18:59.08 | Lopeppeppy | Geek Girlfriend 2.0 is a good model |
| 18:59.09 | foxlit | vanishes. |
| 18:59.30 | industrial | need to get me one of those. |
| 18:59.49 | sylvanaar | Ackis so i saved that code to a file luapp.lua, then i did lua luapp.lua infile.lua outfile.lua |
| 19:00.06 | industrial | bbl, gunna go chill with Geek Girl 2.0 :D |
| 19:00.39 | sylvanaar | "lua luapp.lua infile.lua outfile.lua" |
| 19:01.00 | sylvanaar | its actualy pretty neat little thing |
| 19:01.28 | Ackis | thanks sylvanaar |
| 19:01.58 | sylvanaar | i had to grep your original source to surround the constants with $() |
| 19:02.11 | Arrowmaster | grep? why not just sed? |
| 19:02.54 | sylvanaar | actually im using it in the non-literal sense |
| 19:03.04 | sylvanaar | i didnt use grep |
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| 19:30.27 | jnwhiteh | cogwheel: strings like "g", "s" and "c" are never garbage collected by Lua, they are constants and they're locked at compile/load. |
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| 19:44.25 | Lunessa | http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/tinytrex/ |
| 19:46.56 | Lopeppeppy | Interesting proto-feathers on the wee version. |
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| 19:57.26 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-7f7be155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:57.54 | jnwhiteh | http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=20764061 |
| 20:04.51 | Lopeppeppy | Cute |
| 20:05.15 | Ackis | I tried dragging the image around to flip it over |
| 20:05.19 | Ackis | no I'm not taht smrt |
| 20:06.26 | Lopeppeppy | Or you need drugs. |
| 20:07.13 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:07.14 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:07.52 | Ackis | oh I'm on many of those |
| 20:08.42 | Lopeppeppy | Then you need fewer drugs |
| 20:08.50 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25307 |
| 20:08.52 | ScytheBlade1 | is crazy |
| 20:09.03 | ScytheBlade1 | The Blizzard Online Network services group is Pearce's next focus. A huge group, they have data centers from Texas to Seoul, and monitor over 13,250 server blades, 75,000 cpu cores, and 112.5 terabytes of blade RAM. |
| 20:10.43 | kd3 | eeegah |
| 20:10.44 | kd3 | nuts |
| 20:11.05 | Ackis | holy shit |
| 20:11.08 | ZorbaTHut | that's a pretty significant chunk of hardware |
| 20:11.08 | Ackis | I though I was 29 |
| 20:11.09 | ScytheBlade1 | 5.5 million lines of code |
| 20:11.11 | Ackis | I'm only 28 |
| 20:11.16 | Ackis | I gained a year of my life! |
| 20:11.38 | nevcairiel | you fucked up your own age? now thats ... :P |
| 20:12.39 | Ackis | man I'm actually happy now |
| 20:12.52 | Lopeppeppy | I can never remember how old I am or am not. |
| 20:13.08 | kdtresh | how often do you actually think about your age? |
| 20:13.17 | kdtresh | i don't know how old i am, lol |
| 20:13.18 | kd3 | There are over 27 hours of music in World of Warcraft currently, and Brack jokes that fully half of some patches for the game are audio files. |
| 20:13.19 | kd3 | truth ^ |
| 20:16.11 | ScytheBlade1 | It's awesome to see some actual numbers |
| 20:16.19 | kd3 | yes, yes it is |
| 20:16.30 | kd3 | is intensely curious about their internal wiki |
| 20:16.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Join the club |
| 20:16.57 | Fisker | stop shitting on my damn monitor |
| 20:19.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (n=Geo@71.215.121.109) |
| 20:25.30 | Tepel | Age is irrelevant |
| 20:26.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (n=Geo@71-215-121-109.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 20:27.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra_ (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 20:31.34 | NeoTron | notes that his 65 yo dad just changed his hairstyle to a short pink mohawk |
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| 20:35.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 20:35.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (n=Geo@71-215-121-109.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 20:36.04 | Seerah|away | Before I go to work, I thought I'd share this: http://kanyelicio.us/http://www.wsj.com |
| 20:41.41 | foxlit | Seerah|away: http://kanyelicio.us/http://www.beyonce.com |
| 20:43.08 | foxlit | Missed opportunity, that. |
| 20:45.01 | _rane | is it possible to hide to most outer background Pitbull3's party frame? |
| 20:45.06 | _rane | in* |
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