| 00:00.01 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okly05HmKEA <- never play chicken with tank |
| 00:00.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 00:01.52 | Amarande | Adys: how does it compare on CPU and memory usage vs. Firefox? |
| 00:02.04 | Adys | half a thousand times better? |
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| 00:02.21 | Amarande | I've been thinking I should get a more efficient browser so it doesn't take me forever and a day to alt-tab between WoW and Wowhead :P |
| 00:02.23 | Adys | "it doesn't actually use 100% of your memory" |
| 00:02.23 | Amarande | Heya Peppy |
| 00:02.33 | Adys | get chrome then |
| 00:02.34 | Lopeppeppy | Hi hi. Yay, Astra works!! |
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| 00:08.42 | A-KO | chrome is the fastest browser |
| 00:08.49 | A-KO | but IE8 ranks high in social engineered security |
| 00:09.00 | A-KO | in fact, completely obliterates the competition in that department |
| 00:09.11 | A-KO | so if you're prone to that :P (though I would hope nobody in here is), might want to go wit hthat |
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| 00:13.58 | kneeki | Anyone know how to stop that partial global cooldown graphics effect? Like, you hit an action button, but the spell doesn't actually go off, but the global cooldown clock graphic appears for half a second. How can I turn that off? |
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| 00:27.30 | Amarande | ummmmmm, this is odd. |
| 00:27.46 | Amarande | is there a known bug with hearthing from the horde/alliance zeppelins in icecrown? |
| 00:28.23 | Amarande | I just tried it and ended up waaaaaaay over the ocean, out in fatiguespace, then with about half a minute of fatigue left I finally hit water, and then suddenly (fatigue didn't even run out) I died |
| 00:28.29 | Amarande | and ended up in the graveyard in the Barrens. |
| 00:29.29 | Seerah | neat: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/the-150-space-camera-mit-students-beat-nasa-on-beer-money-budget?npu=1&mbid=yhp |
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| 00:35.49 | mikma | adys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eL6Gmy94y4 |
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| 00:42.22 | Adys | not so funny |
| 00:44.25 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzc8vS-ac-g ... that's nice |
| 00:44.33 | mikma | 88 dollars with cents... |
| 00:45.50 | mikma | pennies, cents.. |
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| 01:02.07 | Shirik | is rest XP gained exponentially? |
| 01:02.19 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 01:02.46 | Shirik | I must be counting wrong |
| 01:03.07 | Lopeppeppy | It's like... X% per X hours or something. |
| 01:03.08 | Adys | Shirik: what do you mean? |
| 01:03.24 | Shirik | I swear yesterday I checked and I gained 1 bubble |
| 01:03.28 | Adys | ah |
| 01:03.28 | Shirik | and today I look and I have 4 |
| 01:04.59 | kd3 | ouch |
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| 01:05.01 | kd3 | http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/09/actiblizzard-ceo-kotick-policy-rewards-profits-removes-fun.ars |
| 01:08.36 | ScytheBlade1 | okay, who can explain the badge system to me? I quit when we only had valor and heroism, and now there is conquest and triumph and I have no idea wtf is going on |
| 01:08.37 | Taroven | Would it be possible to move a couple addons to/from optional status, or will I need to reupload them and have the old ones deleted? |
| 01:08.43 | NeoTron | kd3: yay. |
| 01:09.01 | kd3 | sbo; conquest drops everywhere that isn't the coliseum |
| 01:09.13 | kd3 | triumph drops in the coliseum and as a reward from doing the heroic daily |
| 01:09.22 | kd3 | feel free to downgrade to earlier stuff as you will |
| 01:09.25 | ScytheBlade1 | okay, easy enough |
| 01:09.30 | NeoTron | I think the "fun" factor is one main reason why game developers are able to pay less salaries and have people work longer hours than non-game programming jobs |
| 01:09.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah, I see |
| 01:09.35 | ScytheBlade1 | But we can't upgrade? |
| 01:09.37 | kd3 | no |
| 01:09.45 | Amarande | SB: there's still a bunch of stuff you pretty much have to downgrade for |
| 01:09.49 | ScytheBlade1 | stares at his stack of 124 valor tokens |
| 01:09.55 | ScytheBlade1 | starts twitching |
| 01:09.55 | Amarande | for instance, if you want a badge offhand, you STILL have to downgrade all the way down to heroism |
| 01:09.56 | kd3 | then we'd just redo the isle of quel'danas badge fest |
| 01:10.01 | Amarande | there STILL aren't any better badge offhands |
| 01:10.11 | Amarande | hell, there's a veritable dearth of caster offhands in wotlk, period |
| 01:10.13 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: you can spend those, and you can downtrade to get the last remaining badges required to buy something so you end up with 0 left. |
| 01:10.26 | ScytheBlade1 | I have no use for any valor or heroism tokens |
| 01:10.27 | ScytheBlade1 | at all |
| 01:10.37 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: you can trade them for gems or something can't you? |
| 01:10.46 | ScytheBlade1 | I take it back, I could do that |
| 01:10.46 | Amarande | in fact once you buy the badge offhand, the naxx10 offhand is no longer really an upgrade and you don't see any better one till 25-mans or Ulduar |
| 01:11.14 | ScytheBlade1 | But that's really, really frustrating having my 124+23 badges obseleted in their entirety |
| 01:11.24 | ScytheBlade1 | If it was a result of a new expansion, sure, great |
| 01:11.27 | ScytheBlade1 | But this? -.- |
| 01:11.50 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: triumph are hard to get. you get 2/day from heroic dailys + more from doing trial of the crusader, which is the new instance. |
| 01:12.01 | ScytheBlade1 | I've noticed |
| 01:12.03 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: and conquest drop 4-6 from every heroic instance. |
| 01:12.31 | Jerub | every new instance basically IS a new miniexpansion |
| 01:12.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Is it triumph -> conquest -> valor -> heroism? |
| 01:12.39 | Jerub | I think so. |
| 01:12.41 | ScytheBlade1 | In downgrade order |
| 01:12.54 | Jerub | cries at the thought of downgrading triumph to conquest |
| 01:13.15 | Amarande | Jerub: and yet you'll probably be doing it once icecrown hits, I'm sure :) |
| 01:13.26 | Amarande | since then they'll probably add some NEW type of badge |
| 01:13.37 | Amarande | and triumph will be the regular heroic badge and you'll have to go to icecrown for the new badges |
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| 01:14.02 | Amarande | speaking of which, you know what would be neat for Cataclysm or a later expansion? |
| 01:14.16 | Amarande | if they would do away with the dependence on the RNG for raid loot altogether, and just have raid bosses drop more badges |
| 01:14.24 | Amarande | and have -all- the raid stuff be bought for badges |
| 01:14.47 | Amarande | except maybe Legendaries, those could still be rare boss drops |
| 01:15.16 | Jerub | Amarande: that makes sense at the first glance, but then you realise that instead of 4-5 people of a 25man getting an upgrade the first time they clear a new instance, you have 25 people after 4 runs of the instance getting a single upgrade. |
| 01:15.54 | Amarande | Jerub: and yet, it makes sense still |
| 01:16.03 | Amarande | because each X runs of the instance, the whole raid gets to pick up another upgrade |
| 01:16.41 | Amarande | on the other hand, god knows how many raid guilds experience progression stall issues due to the necessary upgrades for critical members (particularly tanks and healers) just not dropping |
| 01:16.42 | kd3 | but... you're not going to have the gear to get past the first boss or two... |
| 01:17.15 | Amarande | kd3: didn't they basically design naxx so you can do the whole thing with gear from heroic 5-mans? |
| 01:17.32 | Amarande | in other words, gear from naxx is for getting ready for the -next- raid instance, not just to be able to make it through naxx |
| 01:18.18 | Amarande | and I'm pretty sure kara was designed to be doable without having to get the gear from kara just to be able to finish kara, too |
| 01:18.39 | Amarande | otoh, you probably needed the gear from Kara to do well against Maggie and Gruul. |
| 01:18.54 | Amarande | and then the gear from Maggie and Gruul to get your foot in the door for T5. etc. |
| 01:19.44 | Amarande | and what happens when for several weeks in a row the upgrades the MT in particular needs just don't drop, while you keep getting the same upgrades the DPS and healers already have so many times over that your guild is singlehandedly fueling the market for Crystals? :) |
| 01:21.02 | Amarande | (I'm going off the assumption here that the MT's gear is the most critical among the raid as a whole, which may be *slightly* but probably not wholly wrong) |
| 01:22.00 | Jerub | Amarande: sure, naxx can be done in 5man gear, but it's really freaking hard. |
| 01:22.20 | Amarande | Jerub: not to mention totally unnecessary - all thanks to badges |
| 01:22.20 | Jerub | I've wiped ... 15? times on KT this week. |
| 01:22.35 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, I think that more means that your group is pretty crummy |
| 01:22.43 | Jerub | that's also true! |
| 01:22.45 | Amarande | by the time you manage to get the heroic 5-man drops you need to put together your raid set, you probably have enough badges to get at least one or two good pieces of Ulduar+ grade gear |
| 01:22.51 | Amarande | nowadays, anyway |
| 01:22.59 | Jerub | yeah, i've got 2 pieces of U25 |
| 01:23.13 | Jerub | but the remaining pieces require that i run raids. |
| 01:23.20 | Jerub | only chest+head set pieces are available. |
| 01:23.32 | Amarande | chest+head from T8, and leggings+what was it from T7? |
| 01:23.56 | Amarande | although I'm not sure how viable the T7 badge gear is now compared to newer badge gear |
| 01:24.32 | Jerub | tee hee. i'm wearing some pvp gear because it dropped in voa25 and was way better than what i was wearing. |
| 01:24.39 | mikma | shirik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-flQmtL_IQ |
| 01:25.31 | Taroven | lulz. |
| 01:26.22 | Amarande | you know, I wonder if pvp gear will possibly become even more wanted as starting tanking gear in Cataclysm |
| 01:26.58 | Jerub | i'm on a pve server, and really have very little interest in pvp. |
| 01:27.13 | Amarande | since Defense is being removed, and you're going to get uncrittable from talents, you might as well go for the things like dot mitigation (and mana drain mitigation if you're a paladin) and the utter boatloads of stamina on the pvp stuff |
| 01:27.38 | Jerub | (and i'm a druid with a set of feral tank, feral dps and healer gear, and always carry it) |
| 01:27.43 | Amarande | or at least, defense as a gear stat |
| 01:27.53 | Amarande | I'm not sure if they're ditching the Def stat entirely, but apparently it is going away from gear |
| 01:28.08 | Amarande | and all tanking classes will be expected to get their uncrittability from talents, like druid tanks do now |
| 01:28.14 | ScytheBlade1 | so to sum up the badge stuff... ignoring the ToC badges, there is now a single badge type that drops in 25s, 10s, and heroic 5s? |
| 01:28.22 | Amarande | Scythe: Yeah. |
| 01:28.25 | Jerub | I hope they end up with rogues and kitties wanting exactly the same gear, or actually provide gear for both |
| 01:28.28 | ScytheBlade1 | So retarded |
| 01:28.32 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: yep. |
| 01:28.40 | Amarande | Scythe: Which is probably why it's becoming as hard to get a heroic group now sometimes as it was in BC |
| 01:28.51 | Jerub | it's hard to get a heroic group? |
| 01:28.55 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 01:28.58 | Amarande | sometimes, especially for single dungeons |
| 01:28.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Maybe your server just sucks then |
| 01:28.59 | Jerub | man, I say, /4 tree lfg |
| 01:29.06 | ScytheBlade1 | I chain ran 6 heroics today |
| 01:29.10 | Amarande | sometimes people get groups together to do several heroics in a row in a chain run |
| 01:29.11 | Jerub | and I accept the first invite. |
| 01:29.32 | Amarande | but if you're just going to do one dungeon, you might as well do a raid |
| 01:29.47 | Jerub | I don't see many pug raids on my server. |
| 01:29.56 | Amarande | let's see, 3-5 badges from a 5-man heroic vs. what, 15 badges from naxx10 or naxx25? |
| 01:30.00 | Jerub | apart from voa after we win WG though. |
| 01:30.14 | Amarande | I see lots of naxx pugs, but not many others |
| 01:30.32 | Amarande | Jerub: also, you're a tree |
| 01:30.36 | Amarande | you're a healer. everyone wants you |
| 01:30.38 | Jerub | Amarande: I can run gundrak in less than 30 minutes. pug raids are so fail I'd expect to wait 20 minutes between bosses in naxx25 |
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| 01:30.49 | Amarande | if you go "DPS LF any heroic" you still get ignored half the time |
| 01:31.20 | ScytheBlade1 | That's because DPS are a dime a dozen |
| 01:31.25 | Jerub | Amarande: what class? |
| 01:31.28 | Amarande | this is the one most grating thing about being a warlock main |
| 01:31.39 | Amarande | I love playing warlock, but there's so much competition to get into groups |
| 01:31.51 | Amarande | and a lot of times you're out-competed from the start because most people can grab 3 DPS from guild with ease |
| 01:32.38 | Amarande | and if you start your own group, most of the time you get together two more DPS and it's midnight or later by the time you manage to find both a tank and healer (and manage to get the first one to stay while you find the other) |
| 01:32.56 | Amarande | I've once thought <Disgruntled DPS Trio> would be a good guild name. :) |
| 01:33.28 | Jerub | heh, cute. |
| 01:33.47 | Jerub | yeah, I actually get confused when I see LF2M tank+heal g2g on LFG |
| 01:34.39 | Jerub | most groups I run with are started by a tank, they recruit me, fill with random dps, and run immediately. by being ina group of 3 dps you actually exclude yourself from groups. |
| 01:35.37 | ScytheBlade1 | I joined LFG on my druid as a healer for about 4 seconds |
| 01:35.40 | ScytheBlade1 | And got 2 whispers |
| 01:35.40 | Jerub | some of my guildies are really opposed to pugs, I think due to bad experiences with ninjas and stuff. but I don't give a crap, I just want badges. |
| 01:36.19 | Jerub | and I can heal any heroic except ToC without having to gearcheck. |
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| 01:36.31 | Jerub | ToC on the other hand, I will NOT do without gearchecking everyone now. |
| 01:36.39 | ScytheBlade1 | 5 man ToC? |
| 01:36.41 | Jerub | yeah |
| 01:36.43 | Jerub | 5man. |
| 01:36.45 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 01:36.47 | Jerub | I've yet to do 10man |
| 01:37.10 | ScytheBlade1 | My druid had 1450 +heal when it did H-ToC-5 for the first time |
| 01:37.19 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: yeah, mine too. |
| 01:37.20 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm pretty sure that would be an epic fail on your gear check |
| 01:37.22 | ScytheBlade1 | But I did it fine |
| 01:37.39 | ScytheBlade1 | (healing) |
| 01:37.42 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: oh, the healer is fine at 1500, it's just you need to have 2k+ dps to do it without epic failure. |
| 01:38.09 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: btw, the 25 triumph badge tree idol is full of epic win. |
| 01:38.18 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: +234 spellpower while you have a rejuv up |
| 01:38.22 | Amarande | what's the general upper-end raid DPS level these days, not counting gimmick battles like Thaddius where there's stupid powerful buffs in play? |
| 01:38.28 | Jerub | it's basically a +234 sp idol. |
| 01:38.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes indeed |
| 01:38.38 | ScytheBlade1 | I am running HToC every day to get that |
| 01:38.45 | Jerub | i bought it :D |
| 01:39.12 | Amarande | I was watching an Ulduar video and I thought I saw everyone with DPS in the 3000-4000 range or so only, unless I was reading 8000 as 3000 due to crappy youtube quality |
| 01:39.34 | Amarande | and yet I've heard some folks want like ... 5000 DPS out of casters :) |
| 01:39.41 | ScytheBlade1 | That's beliveable |
| 01:39.56 | ScytheBlade1 | My mage is decked out in gear from january, and I did 4200DPS the other day |
| 01:40.01 | Taroven | My rogue would usually run around 5k dps with raid buffs. |
| 01:40.16 | Amarande | I'm wondering if a Rawr estimate of ~ 2200 means my gear is "decent for stuff from 5-mans" or "you fail at gearing" |
| 01:40.18 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a single item over 223 and it is a 226 |
| 01:40.22 | Jerub | ScytheBlade1: as a druid, is there a way to destun someone? I'm tired of having to explain easydric to the priests and paladins in my htoc5 groups. |
| 01:40.33 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 01:40.39 | ScytheBlade1 | none |
| 01:40.40 | Jerub | k, i'll bind it to a macro. |
| 01:41.05 | Jerub | I explain how the hammer of richeousness works in EVERY pug i do. It's fucking frustrating. |
| 01:42.41 | tlund | Amarande: UPPER END raid dps is around 10K these days |
| 01:42.50 | Amarande | Jerub: you're expecting every player to know right off the bat, all the ins and outs of how a relatively new instance works? |
| 01:43.21 | ScytheBlade1 | tlund: in 25s? 10s? 5s? |
| 01:43.26 | ScytheBlade1 | qualify that :) |
| 01:43.29 | Amarande | I'm not sure having to explain toc to people is that bad a thing right now |
| 01:43.31 | Jerub | Amarande: I expect people running H ToC to know how to avoid the trivial wipe on the second boss. |
| 01:43.32 | tlund | ScytheBlade1: 25 |
| 01:43.36 | Amarande | now, if you had to explain heroic utgarde keep to your players every pug |
| 01:43.40 | Amarande | then it's time to transfer servers :D |
| 01:43.40 | ScytheBlade1 | That I believe |
| 01:44.17 | tlund | ScytheBlade1: http://www.worldofraids.com/news/847-world-first-a-tribute-to-mad-skill-by-paragon.html |
| 01:44.30 | tlund | ScytheBlade1: it has damage done (with DPS) from "upper end raiding". |
| 01:44.33 | Amarande | (especially since the healer I had last time through heroic UK pretty much implied that the instance is so easy that you could trust an untrained monkey to tank it by randomly flinging poo at their keyboard ...) |
| 01:44.49 | tlund | ScytheBlade1: actually, it doesnt really get any closer to the upper end :) |
| 01:44.56 | bleeter | wow... sfw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=518XP8prwZo |
| 01:45.28 | tlund | "This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions." :( |
| 01:48.58 | bleeter | wut? :( |
| 01:51.41 | bleeter | hah http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/19820876667-drama-at-the-wrathgate.html |
| 01:52.42 | kd3 | ahahaha |
| 01:52.51 | Taroven | XD |
| 01:54.48 | Seerah | rofl |
| 01:56.32 | Amarande | god |
| 01:56.37 | WobWork | bleeter: yeah, the sand artist's stuff doesn't appear to be able to be shown in some places |
| 01:56.37 | Amarande | these paragon damage meters are making me feel wimpy |
| 01:57.06 | Amarande | they're also making me wonder how stupidly powerful characters in cataclysm will be |
| 01:57.38 | Amarande | with DPS figures like that at the high end of 80, I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be wiping the floor with level 80 mobs in SECONDS even while they're STILL YELLOW heh |
| 01:58.05 | Amarande | and possibly in under a second while they're still green? :) |
| 01:58.15 | Amarande | actually, come to think of it, 80 mobs will be green till at least the expansion after next, right? |
| 01:59.34 | Jerub | Amarande: apparently it will be a significant effort to go from 80 to 85. i don't know how they're going to accomplish that |
| 02:00.26 | Shirik | lmao bleeter |
| 02:00.54 | kd3 | simple; 2 million xp per level |
| 02:01.41 | ZorbaTHut | it wouldn't surprise me if 80-85 had about the same proportional XP gain that 70-80 did |
| 02:02.39 | Seerah | iirc, that's what was implied, yes |
| 02:03.27 | Amarande | Jerub: and yet, 80 mobs will presumably still be green as you're completing the final stages of 84 |
| 02:03.36 | Amarande | unless they're going to have only like, ONE level of green before mobs go gray |
| 02:03.49 | Amarande | which ... even at the lowest levels, there's always at least a two-level green band, isn't there? |
| 02:04.02 | Jerub | who cares about 'green'? surely that's moot at level cap |
| 02:04.14 | kd3 | locks do |
| 02:04.14 | Amarande | Jerub: actually, it has bearing for some classes |
| 02:04.15 | kd3 | soul shards |
| 02:04.19 | Jerub | oh |
| 02:04.21 | Amarande | especially warlocks, yeah |
| 02:04.29 | Jerub | hm. true. |
| 02:04.33 | Amarande | and come to think of it |
| 02:04.41 | Amarande | I wonder if they'd have to even ditch the green phase COMPLETELY to begin with |
| 02:04.49 | Amarande | and have 80 mobs go gray as soon as 82-83 for balance reasons |
| 02:04.53 | Amarande | I mean, look at say Paragon's DPS meters. |
| 02:05.15 | Amarande | By 83-85, if gear progresses like it did from BC to WotLK, we'll probably already have gear comparable to high end 80 raid gear. |
| 02:05.22 | Amarande | Which means we'll be doing DPS like Paragon. |
| 02:05.36 | Jerub | sigh |
| 02:05.38 | Amarande | Which means a 12,600 HP level 80 non-elite mob is dead in like two seconds |
| 02:05.40 | kd3 | not likely. most players don't have that kind of skill |
| 02:05.47 | Jerub | I need to go do dailies or something. i'm nearly out of money due to repair bills |
| 02:05.48 | kd3 | amarande; I do that now |
| 02:05.56 | Amarande | well, maybe 3-5 seconds, since spells have to have time to be cast and dots need time to tick |
| 02:06.45 | Amarande | so you can't really translate "OMG my DPS is over nine thousand!" to "mobs die in two seconds or so" since the "zero to sixty" time for DPS to start up factors in :) |
| 02:07.42 | Amarande | It does make me wonder how players are going to be attracted to Cataclysm leveling areas at all instead of saving them till 84-85, though |
| 02:08.09 | ajmitch | the same inflation in quest XP as BC->wotlk? |
| 02:08.12 | Amarande | when it will clearly be stupidly easy (for characters who haven't already used up the WotLK solo questing) to do Storm Peaks and Icecrown |
| 02:08.25 | kd3 | not if they give crap xp compared to cataclysm |
| 02:08.43 | Amarande | I suppose there's also the flying mount money matter |
| 02:08.55 | Amarande | I know a lot of more casual players have trouble saving up for things like their flying mount |
| 02:08.56 | Arrowmaster | yeah when TBC launched the hellfire quests gave atleast double the xp as old lvl 60 quests |
| 02:09.06 | Amarande | and the 77-80 wotlk areas for the most part require one |
| 02:09.45 | Amarande | which means a lot of the more casual players might hit 78 off zul'drak and sholazar and then instead of investing the money into flying and cold weather flying to be able to go to icecrown and stormpeaks might just go straight to hyjal |
| 02:10.30 | Amarande | It also helps that perforce, people will be able to get their feet wet in Cataclysm without even having to buy Cataclysm |
| 02:10.30 | Arrowmaster | its only epic flying thats expensive |
| 02:10.35 | Arrowmaster | the rest are dirt cheap |
| 02:10.52 | Amarande | because the cataclysm areas are azerothian zones, so even people with basic WoW have access to them |
| 02:10.59 | Arrowmaster | no they wont |
| 02:11.29 | Amarande | I'm assuming anyway, since adding flying mounts to Azeroth seems to me like it will make it impossible to cordon off areas like they did for Ghostlands/Eversong/IQD and the Draenei areas in BC |
| 02:11.30 | Jerub | yeah, you can't go to the belf area unless you have BC. |
| 02:11.40 | Amarande | ok, but if you already have BC and WotLK |
| 02:11.48 | Amarande | you'll get to try the Cataclysm zones without buying Cat, probably |
| 02:11.55 | Amarande | and most likely only have to buy it to level beyond 80 |
| 02:12.04 | Arrowmaster | you will have to zone into the underwater zone and the indoor zone |
| 02:12.09 | Jerub | i think there will be 'changed' zones and 'catacylsm' zones. |
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| 02:12.19 | Amarande | because like I said, a lot of the stuff is just impossible to cordon off with flight in Azeroth |
| 02:12.19 | Jerub | like dalaran is a crater even if you don't have wotlk |
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| 02:12.33 | Jerub | but you can't GO to where dalaran was moved to in NR without having wotlk |
| 02:12.35 | Amarande | for instance, how do you keep non-cataclysm owners out of 78-82 Cat Hyjal when they have a flying mount? |
| 02:12.45 | Jerub | Amarande: teleport you away |
| 02:12.51 | Yssaril | Amarande: fatigue |
| 02:12.52 | Arrowmaster | finger of death |
| 02:12.59 | Jerub | ALL THREE |
| 02:13.26 | Amarande | or more significantly, a number of those areas that are being razed by Deathwing are probably going to become 80+ areas |
| 02:13.27 | ScytheBlade1 | heh @ Zarhym's signature |
| 02:13.28 | Yssaril | invisible wall via phasing |
| 02:13.30 | Amarande | and being part of the original area ... |
| 02:13.50 | A-KO | if they're a part of the original game I would imagine you'll be able to get to them. For example, non-cataclysm owners will be able to level 1-60 in the new cataclysm leveling scheme |
| 02:13.55 | A-KO | with the new areas |
| 02:13.59 | Amarande | unless you are going to tell players they can no longer go to zones they've gone to since like 1.2 or so without buying the expansion to regain access |
| 02:14.09 | Amarande | or worse, parts of zones |
| 02:14.10 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHqTGkxXCuk :D |
| 02:14.15 | A-KO | as far as deepholme |
| 02:14.19 | Amarande | e.g., they say southern barrens will be a 'higher' level area, they haven't said how high. |
| 02:14.20 | A-KO | they probably won't be able to get there |
| 02:14.30 | Amarande | And I imagine Wetlands is going to become an 80s zone if Grim Batol is rising up. |
| 02:14.59 | Amarande | Are they going to tell people without Cat that they can only cross from northern to southern EK at all now if they either buy the expansion or exclusively use the alliance boats/horde zepp? |
| 02:15.03 | Arrowmaster | theres a zone to the east of wetlands on the world map |
| 02:15.16 | Amarande | yeah, but Deathwing's stronghold is Grim Bato |
| 02:15.17 | Amarande | l |
| 02:15.22 | Amarande | and Grim Batol is *in* Wetlands |
| 02:15.30 | Arrowmaster | probably not |
| 02:15.39 | Arrowmaster | i bet the redefine zone lines |
| 02:15.48 | Amarande | There's going to be at least *some* Cat content you'll be able to see before buying it. |
| 02:16.01 | Amarande | Just like if you didn't buy BC and happened by the southern part of Deadwind Pass. |
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| 02:17.21 | Amarande | I wonder what exactly they're going to do with the Hyjal zone in Cat. |
| 02:17.53 | Amarande | I seem to remember one of the claims always made for never allowing access there was that Hyjal's storyline really all takes place in the past and thus there's supposedly nothing *to* do there |
| 02:18.28 | Arrowmaster | they blew up the fucking world, they get to make up whatever the fuck they want now |
| 02:18.49 | tem | ROFL |
| 02:18.59 | tem | there's a guy in dalaran whose name is Brotatoe |
| 02:19.04 | tem | that's _awesome_ |
| 02:20.08 | bleeter | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/15/ozzie_censorship_mess/ |
| 02:22.55 | WobWork | bleeter: heh heh... -butt- |
| 02:23.14 | Cairenn | unh, wha? that makes no sense at all |
| 02:23.22 | bleeter | WobWork: we're not the arse end of the world for nuffin ;) |
| 02:23.40 | bleeter | Cairenn: welcome to the strange world of Australian Senate politics... |
| 02:24.02 | Arrowmaster | bleeter: goatse them |
| 02:24.11 | A-KO | eh |
| 02:24.19 | A-KO | not a whole lot worse than groups like "Focus on the Family" here in the US |
| 02:24.27 | A-KO | they would put in similarly equal laws if they had power |
| 02:24.57 | bleeter | Arrowmaster: I guess you're not familiar with Mapplethorpe's work, then |
| 02:25.16 | Arrowmaster | bleeter: i looked at the link, its still not goatse |
| 02:27.40 | Arrowmaster | most US isps already block (not really they just dont list them in their dns servers) the few real childporn websites that are running from countries that have laws that allow it, yet idiots still think full filtering systems need to be put in place that wouldnt be more effective |
| 02:28.05 | Gnarfoz | name a country that allows it, tbh |
| 02:28.47 | Amarande | agh |
| 02:28.50 | Amarande | I'm a bit fuzzy on this ... |
| 02:28.52 | Gnarfoz | german polticians already tried and failed |
| 02:29.04 | Amarande | is the class color at the top of those paragon meters hunter green, or rogue yellow? :S |
| 02:29.08 | Gnarfoz | I think they tried India, which resulted in a neat backlash from the indian ambassador xD |
| 02:29.14 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: rogue |
| 02:29.24 | Arrowmaster | laws are funny things, the act may be illegal but the content distrubtion might not be depending on ages involved |
| 02:29.33 | Arrowmaster | and vice versa |
| 02:29.39 | Amarande | wow ... |
| 02:29.42 | Arrowmaster | a lot of countries have some fucked up laws |
| 02:29.47 | Arrowmaster | including the US |
| 02:29.50 | Amarande | so I guess this means that certain classes actually are inferior in raids, or? |
| 02:30.25 | Amarande | particularly: hunter, shaman and warlock |
| 02:30.26 | Gnarfoz | no? those paragon meters are for anub'arak heroic 25, an encoutner that, so far, requires very specific tactics. |
| 02:30.38 | Amarande | it looks like they have only one each shammy and lock and no hunters |
| 02:30.39 | Gnarfoz | there's no hunter present there, afaik, which says nothing bad or good about them. |
| 02:31.03 | Gnarfoz | their setup is just stacked for AoE. don't judge something from damage meters if you don't know the circumstances ;) |
| 02:31.19 | Amarande | I'm looking at the raid class composition as a whole |
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| 02:31.25 | Amarande | also, the warlock thing I read about in the comments |
| 02:31.42 | Amarande | where a whole bunch of warlocks were invited to give soulstones, apparently, and then asked to leave so that other classes could take their place in the actual raid |
| 02:31.51 | Gnarfoz | uhm, the class composition is *stacked* for that encounter |
| 02:32.00 | Gnarfoz | no, you can't leave and keep the soulstone |
| 02:32.14 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: it was hotfixed apparently ... so apparently you used to be able to :S |
| 02:32.16 | Gnarfoz | actually, soulstones should fade on zoning now |
| 02:32.22 | Gnarfoz | no, leaving never worked. |
| 02:32.27 | Gnarfoz | they had to stay in the raid |
| 02:32.47 | Gnarfoz | ok "never" is wrong, that was the status after the *last* hotfix to it :D |
| 02:32.55 | Arrowmaster | Gnarfoz: well theres a very few amount of sites in existence that are outside of jurisdictions or treaties to get shutdown, they are probably still illegal though but they exist or atleast used to when i found out ISPs did do some filtering years ago |
| 02:33.10 | Amarande | so basically, for optimum anub'araking, you want to tell most of your warlocks and shammies and all of your hunters to take a hike so you can stack melee. :| |
| 02:33.20 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: no... |
| 02:33.29 | Gnarfoz | do you know what Anub'arak heroic involves? |
| 02:33.39 | Amarande | actually, I'm not that up to speed on the newer content |
| 02:33.54 | Amarande | I'd read up some about Ulduar, and that's the latest I really know much about, other than normal ToC 5 |
| 02:34.00 | Gnarfoz | please read up then or use another encounter to get metrics on who's in and who's out these days |
| 02:34.19 | Gnarfoz | also, it's a heroic version, so "bring the player, not the class" doesn't apply by Blizz's own admission anyway |
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| 02:35.06 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: well, the point in Germany's case of internet censorship bullshit laws is that they're just redundant because they could've spent the time implementing them sending C&D's to 95% of the list of sites they have and they'd all be gone in under 48hours |
| 02:35.37 | Gnarfoz | but they say they "can't do that" |
| 02:35.58 | Gnarfoz | lol, but they can place a fucking STOP sign there, implemented by DNS blacklists, that'll help |
| 02:36.19 | bleeter | hey neat, Blizz don't forum filter the word 'jackass' |
| 02:36.20 | Gnarfoz | of course, if you ever get to such a stop sign, your data will be logged (not that it isn't logged already *anyway*) |
| 02:36.34 | Gnarfoz | bleeter: wut? that's weird, they used to filter 'ass' |
| 02:36.35 | Amarande | Yeah, I'm looking at the wowwiki entry on Anub now |
| 02:36.44 | Amarande | I see a lot of "and throws the target up in the air" abilities |
| 02:36.44 | Arrowmaster | or in aussies case spend less than 1 hour running domain whoises to find out over half the domains arent even registered anymore |
| 02:36.48 | Amarande | maybe this is why it favors melee :) |
| 02:37.03 | Amarande | casters and "and throws the target up in the air" abilities are a scream-inducing combination |
| 02:37.08 | Amarande | (Ichoron, anyone? :D) |
| 02:37.26 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: it's... one ability |
| 02:37.49 | Amarande | I know my knockback heavy battles well from Ichoron, heh ... "Interrupted. Can't do that while moving. Interrupted. CAN'T DO THAT WHILE MOVING, BITCH." |
| 02:37.56 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: or that, yeah. and funnily enough, Germany's insane politicians the reference the "working systems" in finland and australia, lol |
| 02:38.36 | Amarande | Gnar: actually, both pursuing spikes and impale knock into the air |
| 02:38.54 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: impale? |
| 02:39.05 | Gnarfoz | impale is the ability of the lead spike, I'd venture |
| 02:39.14 | Amarande | " Impale — When Anub'arak reaches his target he will cast this spell. Fires a spike up through the floor above Anub'arak, inflicting 17672 to 19828 Physical damage to anyone within 6 yards and sending them flying high up in the air (50% fall damage)." |
| 02:39.27 | Jerub | A-KO: focus on the fmaily is basically the same people as our 'Family First', who have a member in the senate. |
| 02:39.36 | Amarande | " Pursuing Spikes — Fires a spike through the floor, impaling all targets within 4 yards, dealing 2,828 to 3,172 damage and knocking them up in the air. This attack ignores armor." |
| 02:39.51 | mikma | http://fukung.net/v/11862/b8a554c951bdbd2fba892180cd2cb0a1.jpg |
| 02:39.52 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: yes, it's the ability of the lead spike, as I said |
| 02:39.59 | Amarande | granted, the damage from the latter is fairly pitiful for a raid boss |
| 02:40.09 | Amarande | but it's still a real pain in the ass for any casters that get caught in it |
| 02:40.17 | Gnarfoz | nobody gets caught in it |
| 02:40.27 | Gnarfoz | people who get caught in it die, earn -dkp and wipe the raid :p |
| 02:40.33 | Gnarfoz | at least on heroic :P |
| 02:40.49 | Gnarfoz | on normal... well, they probably still die and get laughed at at least ;p |
| 02:40.51 | Amarande | anyway, I'm still trying to figure out from the abilities listed why the battle favors rogues and DKs so heavily |
| 02:41.15 | Gnarfoz | "the battle" doesn't, Paragon's and Premonition's tactic does |
| 02:41.24 | Gnarfoz | and it's all about the differences in heroic mode |
| 02:41.29 | Amarande | especially, I'm not sure I'd want too many DKs at all, given this: |
| 02:41.31 | Amarande | " Leeching Swarm 50,000 yd range — Releases a swarm of insects that attack the caster's enemies, leeching 10% (Hard Mode 30%) of each target's CURRENT (not maximum) health every 1 second. A minimum of 250 health will be leeched. This ability heals Anub'arak" |
| 02:41.36 | Gnarfoz | it also favors mages just as much, btw. |
| 02:41.40 | Amarande | DKs tend to have a lot of HP. A lot of HP means a lot of healing for Anub. |
| 02:41.50 | Amarande | Squishies tend to have a lot less HP to begin with, which means less healing for Anub. |
| 02:41.58 | Gnarfoz | no, since you get reduced to about 1-2k hp anyway, that's the same fore veryone |
| 02:42.10 | ZorbaTHut | dammit I cannot maintank raid bosses unless I am given at least one heal every six seconds |
| 02:42.14 | Gnarfoz | it's irrelevant, you only have the "big" drop from 100% to 5% or so once |
| 02:42.14 | ZorbaTHut | grrr |
| 02:42.26 | Gnarfoz | ZorbaTHut: lol, I'd hope you get more than taht |
| 02:42.29 | Gnarfoz | *rhat |
| 02:42.34 | Gnarfoz | damnit typing! |
| 02:42.35 | Amarande | zorba, is your healer like that druid from that one escort quest who kept falling asleep every five steps? :D |
| 02:42.42 | ZorbaTHut | gnarfoz, so would I, but apparently not! :P |
| 02:42.54 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, nah, usually good, I think something just SNAFUed |
| 02:43.03 | ZorbaTHut | still it's pretty sad to die halfway through the first boss of Northrend Beasts |
| 02:43.34 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: want me to break it down for you, or are you content in (not?^^) figuring it out yourself |
| 02:44.01 | ZorbaTHut | well, they're up to icehowl, so this should be fine |
| 02:44.34 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: I'm still fuzzy on what trick they might have used, without actually being told. |
| 02:44.46 | Amarande | FWIW, I've never played a DK past 64-66 or so, and I've never played a rogue at all |
| 02:44.49 | Gnarfoz | it's less of a trick than a requirement |
| 02:44.59 | Amarande | so I'm not sure at all what abilities they have that are key to Paragon's strategy |
| 02:45.13 | Gnarfoz | there's adds that you need to burn down, and there are four of them, and they keep spawning |
| 02:45.18 | Gnarfoz | you can't ignore them |
| 02:45.24 | Amarande | (although I do have this sinking feeling that the achievement might be classist, depending on whether Paragon/Premonition strategy is the only reasonable way to achieve it without waiting till 85) |
| 02:45.30 | Gnarfoz | so the best solution is indeed heavy AoE |
| 02:45.52 | Gnarfoz | Premo's meters feature more mages btw, even though they still have 4 rogues |
| 02:46.06 | Amarande | I don't see how rogues help towards heavy AoE though |
| 02:46.13 | Amarande | I always thought rogues were mostly a "one target at a time" type class |
| 02:46.30 | Gnarfoz | see, there's the problem |
| 02:46.45 | Gnarfoz | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=51723 <- new since WotLK |
| 02:46.46 | Amarande | IIRC they do have a few gimmick abilities that can do multiple targets, but for the most part rogues seem to be designed to be single-target killers |
| 02:47.09 | Jerub | fan of knives is a favoiurite of one of my guild's rogues. |
| 02:47.21 | Gnarfoz | rogues can (as the meters show) be devastating in AoE now |
| 02:47.51 | Gnarfoz | FoK also combines with blade flurry, and they might have (depending on spec) Killing Spree, another multi-target cooldown, which also combines with Blade Flurry |
| 02:47.56 | Jerub | yeah, basically everyone has an aoe now don't they? |
| 02:48.07 | Jerub | even kitties have aoe |
| 02:48.50 | Gnarfoz | well, most "have" some sort, but they're at various levels of "omg this is OP" ness |
| 02:48.50 | Amarande | so basically, from what you mentioned earlier |
| 02:49.00 | Amarande | 10's are about bringing the player, but 25's tend to instead be about bringing the right class? |
| 02:49.09 | ZorbaTHut | haha, icehowl down with four players alive, including zero healers |
| 02:49.11 | ZorbaTHut | that was a bit close |
| 02:49.26 | kd3 | oops |
| 02:49.28 | Amarande | rather hopes things don't end up degenerating into the hell Guild Wars was for most classes |
| 02:49.36 | Jerub | Amarande: what hell was that? |
| 02:49.46 | Amarande | Jerub: a lot of classes just DID NOT GET to see the highest end content |
| 02:50.03 | Jerub | Amarande: really? that sucks. |
| 02:50.06 | Amarande | because basically, 99.999% of groups for such content used established class build combinations that were proven to work |
| 02:50.10 | Amarande | and only had room for certain primary classes |
| 02:50.22 | kd3 | until we get back to the sunwell situation there's not much room for complaining |
| 02:50.22 | kd3 | hi2u 5 shamans and 5 warlocks |
| 02:50.29 | Amarande | for instance, Domain of Anguish, you brought a warrior, a necromancer, three elementalists, and three monks |
| 02:50.36 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: hm? no |
| 02:50.42 | Amarande | there were six other classes in the game, and for the most part they simply did not get to do DoA |
| 02:50.44 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: "heroic" doesn't mean 25man anymore |
| 02:50.53 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: there's 10man and 25man normal and heroic, so, 4 versions |
| 02:51.27 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: and the heroic versions are designed based on specific optimal class combinations, I'm supposing, which mean certain classes pretty much don't get to go most of the time? |
| 02:51.35 | Amarande | e.g., hunters for Anub'arak |
| 02:51.47 | Gnarfoz | actually, I'd have considered *one* hunter pretty vital |
| 02:51.49 | ajmitch | ZorbaTHut: yeah, we did it with 2 people left at ~10% health each |
| 02:51.52 | Amarande | (I've only seen Paragon's meters, did Premonition's raid have any hunters, or were they left out in the cold there too?) |
| 02:51.52 | kd3 | uh... no. maybe for the first kill or two but it'll balance out after that |
| 02:51.56 | Gnarfoz | but apparently, DKs work, too because of Death Grip |
| 02:52.10 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: it's totally not about "being left out in the cold" |
| 02:52.18 | Amarande | Or is it more either |
| 02:52.19 | ajmitch | it was a bit nervous when the remaining tank dropped when icehowl was at 4% |
| 02:52.24 | Gnarfoz | it's about "how do we kill this mother... let's try EVERYTHING" |
| 02:52.29 | Amarande | a) hunters are a passe class for the most part |
| 02:52.41 | Amarande | or more likely b) there are just THAT FEW top end raid skilled players who main hunters? |
| 02:52.43 | Gnarfoz | hunters do amazing single target dps |
| 02:53.02 | Gnarfoz | and good multi target. AoE? they can do for trash, but probably not as insane as FoK spam from rogues, DKs and mages can do |
| 02:53.35 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: c) the encounter requires one player to manage the frost orbs. on non-heroic, that's usually a hunter because of the high range. |
| 02:53.50 | Amarande | and on heroic? |
| 02:53.56 | Gnarfoz | really, I can only suggest again not to take heroic "current endboss of the game" as a metric for anything |
| 02:54.48 | Gnarfoz | well, maybe their raid leaders said "ok, lets try bringing even MORE aoe dps, a DK can still death grip the frost spheres" |
| 02:54.51 | Amarande | Yeah, Guild Wars probably also isn't a good general metric to refer to for class balance situations gone bad, either |
| 02:54.53 | Gnarfoz | or... there wasn't a hunter online |
| 02:55.10 | Amarande | There are certain considerations in GW that tend to lead to classist encounters being much more common and acceptable, particularly |
| 02:55.24 | Gnarfoz | I don't know how it came to be in Paragon's case, but anyway, it's neither a "good" or "bad" for anything in this situation |
| 02:55.57 | Amarande | in particular, the fact that it is stupidly easy to get a character through level 20, and even to finish a campaign on normal mode (which you have to do to unlock the hard mode and at least the Nightfall elite mission Domain of Anguish) |
| 02:56.16 | Amarande | plus the fact that except for armor, which must be custom bought and crafted anyway, there is basically no BOP gear in GW |
| 02:56.26 | Amarande | so pretty much you gather gear with your most effective class and then pass it on to the others |
| 02:57.17 | Amarande | WoW by comparison it takes a considerable time investment to get raid ready so most people pick a class and stick with it, plus a lot of stuff is BoP so you *have* to bring the class that needs the gear rather than just whoever raids best |
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| 02:58.12 | Amarande | I *have* noticed some classes seem to have decreased significantly in popularity, though. |
| 02:58.23 | Amarande | I can't really grudge the rogues for their top spot in Anub heroic, in particular |
| 02:58.40 | Amarande | because for most of the first several months in WOTLK it seemed like rogues had virtually vanished entirely from PvE |
| 02:58.54 | kd3 | zOMG, a flavor of the month? |
| 02:58.55 | Amarande | at least on the servers I played on |
| 02:58.56 | kd3 | no way |
| 02:59.13 | Amarande | in BC, you used to see rogues quite often ... once WotLK came out, a lot of the rogue players rerolled DK I think |
| 02:59.43 | Amarande | Warlocks also seem to have been somewhat rare off and on as well |
| 03:00.13 | Amarande | in BC, it was not uncommon for there to be a second warlock in a group, often enough that we'd waste a soulstone by not consulting before both applying it to the healer |
| 03:00.25 | Amarande | this almost never is the case in WotLK 5-man groups, in my experience |
| 03:00.59 | Amarande | although warlocks may have been on the wane before that, I remember in the kara raid I was in last year I was the only cloth DPS caster, period |
| 03:01.31 | Amarande | (and despite thus being in the catbird seat for all such loot, none of it dropped! Damn you RNG!) |
| 03:02.04 | Amarande | I think this might be a rule |
| 03:02.18 | Amarande | if you're the only class in the group/raid who can make good use of a particular piece of loot, which you also happen to desite |
| 03:02.20 | Amarande | er, desire |
| 03:02.30 | Amarande | either a) you will be showered in that loot or b) *none* drops. |
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| 03:04.16 | Amarande | actually, now I think I can understand the heavy DK usage, after looking more into the Permafrost mechanic |
| 03:04.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (n=Taroven@HW-ESR1-208-102-197-5.fuse.net) |
| 03:04.43 | Amarande | Hunters can easily create permafrost due to the range, but on the other hand, a DK can create permafrost, make sure it's *near them* and then use that to tank the burrowers |
| 03:04.51 | Amarande | otoh, a hunter can't tank :) |
| 03:05.08 | Amarande | and seeing as you apparently only get six spots of permafrost in the whole area in heroic ... yeah |
| 03:05.36 | Amarande | have I gotten a good handle on it now? :) |
| 03:06.51 | Gnarfoz | err, now that you've come back from that tangent on class representation, I think you're getting there |
| 03:06.55 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 03:07.43 | Gnarfoz | main reason for heavy AoE class representation is: Burrowers keep spawning in timed intervals so you have to kill them or they'll just gib your tank, but you also need to kill Anub'arak himself... so AoE it is |
| 03:08.08 | Amarande | you know what else I noticed about anub that's odd? |
| 03:08.20 | Amarande | I don't think I've ever seen a raid boss with separate sets of loot for Alliance and Horde before |
| 03:08.33 | kd3 | most of the toc bosses do that |
| 03:08.38 | kd3 | they're the same stats, just different names/art |
| 03:08.58 | kd3 | same reason why there's like 50850 versions of tier 9 |
| 03:09.16 | Amarande | I also seem to remember seeing some crafted epics that can not be sold cross-faction, but I forget which they were |
| 03:09.17 | kd3 | 3-9 sets per class per side |
| 03:09.40 | Amarande | not that cross-faction sales seem to be common |
| 03:09.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (n=Sesshu@ip-249-19.travedsl.de) |
| 03:09.58 | Amarande | I remember the first time I got to Gadgetzan with a character and expected the neutral AH to be fairly abuzz only to find it usually never had more than 100 items total or so on the whole thing |
| 03:10.06 | Gnarfoz | nothing that is BoP can be sold cross faction, everything else can :D |
| 03:10.58 | Amarande | actually, not quite anymore |
| 03:11.15 | Amarande | take a gander at, say, http://www.wowhead.com/?spells=11.164#0-7+1 |
| 03:11.33 | Amarande | those blacksmithing epics are all BoE, and yet all have race specifications so they can only be used by the faction that crafted them |
| 03:12.02 | Gnarfoz | they can still be sold :p |
| 03:12.15 | Gnarfoz | I get your point though, hehe |
| 03:12.31 | Gnarfoz | it's not like you actually need to get the other faction involved, anyway, though |
| 03:12.52 | Amarande | also, you can't effectively sell the mechano-hog or mekgineer's chopper cross faction either IIRC |
| 03:13.41 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D989.flatrate.dk) |
| 03:14.05 | Amarande | although, those might actually be the same thing pretty much :) |
| 03:14.23 | Amarande | At first I felt cheated as Horde, because I assumed the 'chopper' was some sort of helicopter |
| 03:14.34 | Amarande | and thus figured the Horde version couldn't fly and the Alliance one could and I was like WTF |
| 03:14.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 03:14.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 03:14.57 | Amarande | I probably should have thought more about that one though seeing as engineering already had helicopters from BC :) |
| 03:16.13 | Amarande | that reminds me, I need to level my hunter, he's my engineer |
| 03:16.26 | Amarande | and my BS, as well |
| 03:16.34 | Amarande | let's just say ... <3 one-click mining heh |
| 03:17.03 | Amarande | on another crafting related point |
| 03:17.16 | Amarande | is it yet possible to obtain Primal Nether in any way solo, or do you still need to beg a tank and healer to go with you? |
| 03:17.37 | kd3 | it's boe |
| 03:17.40 | kd3 | go hit up the ah? |
| 03:17.45 | Amarande | well, yeah. |
| 03:17.49 | Amarande | but just in case there isn't any in AH |
| 03:17.59 | Amarande | I'm not sure if 70 dungeons, let alone 70 heroics are soloable yet, mainly |
| 03:18.01 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Primal_Nether |
| 03:18.09 | End | some are easily soloable |
| 03:18.14 | End | some are hard |
| 03:18.17 | Amarande | the highest end dungeon I tried to solo in BC once I hit 80 was Auchenai Crypts, and even that was fairly hard |
| 03:18.18 | End | depending on class of course |
| 03:18.21 | Amarande | (on normal) |
| 03:18.36 | End | which class specifically? |
| 03:18.47 | Amarande | well, my only current 80 is a warlock |
| 03:18.55 | End | yes, you can definitely solo |
| 03:19.32 | Amarande | I also forget the list of easiest to hardest heroics in BC |
| 03:19.38 | Amarande | which was some really weird order I cannot remember at all |
| 03:19.44 | Amarande | other than that the hardest by far were MgT and Sethekk |
| 03:20.00 | Amarande | (hell, even normal mgt was harder than most of the heroics, heh) |
| 03:20.06 | End | sethekk's trash is annoying |
| 03:20.23 | Amarande | The only time I went to Heroic Sethekk we got to the boss with all the elemental adds |
| 03:20.25 | End | I've done it on my warlock, but I don't suggest it |
| 03:20.33 | Amarande | and we got our asses handed to us enough times to make us give up |
| 03:20.42 | End | I'd suggest slavepens |
| 03:21.05 | kd3 | meh. I'm sad they fixed some of the geometry fun in sp. I used to enjoy soloing stuff in there as a mage |
| 03:21.09 | Amarande | I'm considering getting the nethers in particular for the idea of making my hunter a Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer to use in the first few levels of Northrend |
| 03:21.20 | End | yeah, they did |
| 03:21.29 | End | but slave pens was still pretty easy to solo on my warlock at 80 |
| 03:21.38 | End | hardest part are the two champion trash |
| 03:21.44 | Amarande | I'd hate trying to solo instances as a mage :) |
| 03:21.52 | Amarande | mages go sqoosh, heh |
| 03:21.59 | kd3 | it's just a function of knowing how to make stuff not hit you |
| 03:22.08 | Amarande | yeah, which is not my forte |
| 03:22.16 | kd3 | go watch faxmonkey's old stuff |
| 03:22.18 | Amarande | e.g., it's why I fail horribly at Devil May Cry and the like |
| 03:22.28 | kd3 | stupid mage tricks and the like |
| 03:22.29 | Amarande | it's also why I <3 my warlock |
| 03:22.47 | Amarande | because with aff, you really don't have to worry too badly about being hit, unless the monster has interrupts that will screw up your whole shadow school |
| 03:23.16 | Amarande | haunt heals you, corruption heals you with the talent, if that's not enough you have drain life, your potion AND your healthstone ... yeah. |
| 03:23.18 | ZorbaTHut | haha, nice. three-way 10-man ToC speed competition |
| 03:23.28 | ZorbaTHut | we killed anub'arak before the next group had finished Twin Valkyr |
| 03:24.25 | Amarande | valkyr ... those are those glowing winged women things, I'm assuming :) |
| 03:24.37 | kd3 | yes |
| 03:24.41 | kd3 | www.wowwiki.com/Val'kyr |
| 03:24.43 | Amarande | Blizzard seems to love pairs of curvy female things in their raids now :) |
| 03:24.55 | Amarande | sunwell had the eredar sisters, now we have twin valkyr ... |
| 03:25.21 | ZorbaTHut | who *doesn't* love pairs of curvy female things in their "raids"? |
| 03:25.29 | Amarande | lol, yeah. :) |
| 03:25.35 | Amarande | and the eredar sisters were pretty unique, too |
| 03:25.39 | Amarande | since basically every other eredar in BC is male |
| 03:25.49 | ZorbaTHut | twin valkyr is just an incredibly fun fight, too |
| 03:25.50 | Amarande | the valkyr are more common, but not too much so :) |
| 03:26.08 | Amarande | I really only tend to stop much to fight them in stormpeaks, because IIRC there's a mob-specific epic drop from the nascent val'kyr |
| 03:26.16 | Amarande | though it's been so long since I last looked that I can't remember what, heh |
| 03:26.39 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 03:27.03 | Amarande | oh, right, the tears of bitter anguish |
| 03:27.11 | Amarande | I'm a bit fuzzy off the top of my head on what class that's best for |
| 03:27.15 | Amarande | but they still probably sell well :) |
| 03:27.24 | Amarande | there's also a JC design that only drops from them, too, and which I still need |
| 03:27.42 | Amarande | you know, being a JC makes me especially hate expansions :| |
| 03:27.58 | Amarande | you finally gather up most of the current JC designs and then the expansion comes along and they're useless |
| 03:28.17 | Amarande | well, ok, maybe not totally useless, since even Thrallmar vendor gems are better than leaving a socket empty, but yeah. :) |
| 03:29.30 | End | cheaper/better to get a green quality northrend though :P |
| 03:30.11 | Amarande | at least I probably did better in that regard this time around though |
| 03:30.21 | Amarande | since I focused first on getting the epic ring and necklace recipes rather than loading up on gem cuts |
| 03:30.35 | Amarande | which I suppose might still be worth making as leveling gear |
| 03:31.06 | Amarande | especially since titanium will become stupidly common once Cat hits and icecrown/stormpeaks get deserted |
| 03:31.29 | Amarande | actually, titanium is already getting stupidly common on my server in my experience |
| 03:31.39 | Amarande | I swear I see it at least four or five times as often now as I did before I went on break from WoW |
| 03:36.23 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, I dunno, how useful were crafted BC epics two levels into Northrend? |
| 03:36.55 | ZorbaTHut | I'm suspecting some painful levels of starter gear inflation in Cataclysm, just thanks to how much raid gear is inflating in Wrath |
| 03:37.08 | ZorbaTHut | not as bad as the BC inflation, but worse than the Wrath inflation |
| 03:37.28 | kd3 | meh, the fact that the devs were caught off guard by how bad gear's inflated is not a good sign |
| 03:37.54 | ZorbaTHut | when you plan to have three difficulty levels and one super-difficulty level, and separate them all by a tier, well, that's what happens :P |
| 03:39.44 | End | if they only add two tiers of icecrown gear, we'll actually be reasonably close to TBC |
| 03:40.02 | Ycarene | They should make all the mobs that are 81+ use the elite stats for hp and damage. |
| 03:40.12 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly|__ (n=Jelly@68-187-35-8.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 03:40.13 | End | elite stats? |
| 03:40.36 | Ycarene | Essentially almost un-soloable |
| 03:41.08 | End | why would they do that? |
| 03:41.15 | Amarande | Zorba: I think it took me a few levels to replace some of the BC blues, let alone epics |
| 03:41.58 | Amarande | Ycarene: if you like unsoloable leveling, they have a game for you |
| 03:42.00 | Amarande | it's called FFXI |
| 03:43.18 | Amarande | and one reason I do not play FFXI is because it demands that you basically have five regular friends who have basically, exactly the same gaming rhythm as you |
| 03:43.18 | Amarande | if they play more often than you, you'll fall behind, lose your party & be unable to level for a good while till you find a new one |
| 03:43.18 | Amarande | (which can be either easy or horrendously hard depending on class from what I know about FFXI) |
| 03:43.38 | Amarande | if you play more often than them, you'll get bored to death because you'll have days at a time when you can't do anything but farm super low level mobs and craft low level gear from their mats |
| 03:44.01 | Amarande | which, really, is one of the reasons WoW is so successful |
| 03:44.02 | Ycarene | I was thinking more along the lines of making people tolerate each other enough to gain exp so you don't have this huge elitist sect at the endgame. |
| 03:44.13 | Amarande | lots of solo content, including solo leveling, means that you can actually play at your pace |
| 03:44.25 | Amarande | Ycarene: there's a big downside to that at 85, though |
| 03:44.42 | End | that's a terrible idea once you're not in the middle of the leveling curve |
| 03:44.45 | Amarande | people who are unable to have access to good groups on a daily basis will fall way behind on tradeskills and gold wealth vs. people who can |
| 03:44.59 | Amarande | because presumably you'll still need to group everywhere to be able to get any mats |
| 03:45.12 | Ycarene | There's a huge gap between the gear on a fresh 80 and someone who's been 80 for a while, and closing that gap is almost impossible because nowadays, people want you in ulduar gear to run heroics. |
| 03:45.28 | Jerub | Amarande: how do you mean? tradeskills work fine in isolatoin |
| 03:45.38 | Amarande | Jerub: you'd need the group to survive to be able to gather the mats in the first place |
| 03:45.46 | Amarande | or to be able to get anything to sell on AH to make the money to buy mats from there |
| 03:45.50 | Jerub | Amarande: meh. I survived fine for many levels. |
| 03:46.09 | Amarande | Ycarene: Meh. It's not quite THAT bad, on my server anyway, and Turalyon tends to be one of the more progressive PvE servers. |
| 03:46.19 | Amarande | It's still light years better than BC, which was indeed pretty much as bad as you say |
| 03:46.52 | Amarande | Now a FRESH 80 I imagine would need to do a ton of rep grinding and get a lot of crafted pieces made to be able to even set foot in heroics |
| 03:46.59 | Jerub | I don't mind people being in ilvl 190-200 gear, but if you're still lugging around ilvl 130 greens, i'll encourage you to gear up a bit before you run heorics. |
| 03:46.59 | Amarande | but you're still pretty ok if you're in ilvl 200 or so |
| 03:47.01 | Ycarene | Amarande - if I didn't have my guild, I'd still be stuck in quest greens and blues with one or two epics because no-one wants you in a heroic unless ridiculously outgear the instance to begin with. |
| 03:47.12 | Amarande | Ycarene: which tard server do you play on? |
| 03:47.14 | Jerub | Amarande: I did heroics on day 1 of being 80 |
| 03:47.26 | Ycarene | Destromath |
| 03:47.36 | Amarande | On Turalyon it's actually become a lot more *laid back* than it used to |
| 03:47.37 | Jerub | Ycarene: my server isn't at all like that. |
| 03:47.55 | Amarande | Back in the days when Naxx was current, there were a lot of meter maids around insisting you test recount at least a certain amount before you could go with them |
| 03:47.59 | Amarande | Now we don't even have that. |
| 03:48.24 | Amarande | I guess people realized that being meter maids was just as stupid as it always was. |
| 03:48.49 | Amarande | And really it only worked out in early BC because tanking was stupidly powerful. |
| 03:48.55 | Amarande | er. not early BC. early WotLK |
| 03:49.16 | Jerub | yeah, i've not seen a meter maid in a long time. |
| 03:49.25 | Amarande | in BC, especially, meter maidism was disastrous |
| 03:49.34 | Ycarene | I got kicked out of an Emalon group because I had "low dps", which came from moving out of the novas and running to the overcharged mobs to kill them. The raidleader was a rogue pulling 4k dps, after looking at the recount (yes I know) I noticed why his DPS was insane. He never left the boss. |
| 03:49.42 | Amarande | people would be so focused on proving themselves for that raid that dps were constantly pulling aggro off the tank |
| 03:49.44 | Jerub | for 25uld and 25toc they ask for a certain level of dps. |
| 03:49.53 | Jerub | on my server, but i've not seen it elsewhere |
| 03:49.58 | Amarande | apparently, they never quite understood before the fact that your dps when you are dead is pretty zeroish :) |
| 03:50.43 | Amarande | I suppose for Ulduar and TOC it might be reasonable in a way. |
| 03:51.02 | Amarande | For Ulduar, you don't want to blow your only chance for the week at Algalon if you feel like you might be able to take him at all. |
| 03:51.12 | Ycarene | Jerub - I could see that, I'm talking more heroics and regular instances than raids though. |
| 03:51.13 | Amarande | And TOC is top-end content right now. |
| 03:51.52 | Amarande | Heroics and other raids, it seems not so bad, as long as you can beat enrage timers where applicable |
| 03:52.42 | Amarande | although there is that stupidly hard boss in heroic TOC5 that is pretty much a meter maid fight |
| 03:52.44 | Jerub | argent confessor palestress in htoc5 requires reasonable dps because her ranged attacks ignore agro |
| 03:52.56 | Jerub | yeah, argent confessor palestress |
| 03:53.07 | Amarande | although, I'm not sure how bad even Paletress is compared to, say, a lot of BC heroic bosses |
| 03:53.23 | WobWork | a 'meter maid' fight? |
| 03:53.29 | Jerub | 'gear check' perhaps |
| 03:53.33 | Amarande | Wob: one where raw metered DPS performance is especially critical |
| 03:53.39 | WobWork | oh |
| 03:53.53 | WobWork | I was envisaging some sort of traffic cop in a tight uniform doing something |
| 03:53.54 | Amarande | as opposed to ones where you should be alright without super awesomeness as long as you have reasonable gear and don't stand in shit |
| 03:53.55 | End | weird, I wasn't even aware paletress was a gear check? |
| 03:54.09 | Jerub | i've heard patchwork referred to as the 'gearcheck' naxx fight. |
| 03:54.11 | End | if anything the black knight is more about gear |
| 03:54.11 | WobWork | it's not -really- a gear check |
| 03:54.21 | End | because of his stacking debuff |
| 03:54.25 | WobWork | BK phase 3 is a gear check |
| 03:54.29 | End | yeah |
| 03:54.38 | WobWork | if your healing isn't good enough, your dps won't survive long enough |
| 03:54.45 | Jerub | End: Of all the times i've done HToC5, I have never had a touch of trouble with the black knight unless we wiped at least 3 times on argent confessor palestress. |
| 03:54.50 | WobWork | if your dps isn't good enough, you won't be able to keep the healing up |
| 03:54.55 | End | well |
| 03:54.57 | End | to be fair |
| 03:55.00 | End | I don't pug it often |
| 03:55.04 | Amarande | A lot of raid fights, the meters don't really matter all that much, because as long as the tank and healer are good enough, the DPS don't TOTALLY suck and people don't stand in fire, you're ok. |
| 03:55.21 | Amarande | the latter is unfortunately a problem. |
| 03:55.23 | WobWork | I've four manned HToC5 a few times |
| 03:55.23 | Jerub | I've never even had a death on BK if we survived ACP without a wipe. |
| 03:55.28 | WobWork | it just takes decent people |
| 03:55.34 | End | hard modes tend to take dps into account more :P |
| 03:55.37 | Amarande | a lot of players seem to come with a large stack of "Like Moths to the Flame" debuff attached. :| |
| 03:55.47 | End | but yeah, usually normal modes are really lax on dps requirements |
| 03:56.09 | Jerub | normal mode you can do with piddly dps provided you've got a geared healer. |
| 03:56.13 | Amarande | End: to use a really cheesy Blood Elf joke, I think Blizzard remembers the Sunwell :) |
| 03:56.19 | WobWork | "Oooh... shiny... ARRARRAGHH" |
| 03:56.49 | Jerub | I 4 manned norm ToC 5 with a geared healer and tank and 2 clothies in ilvl 130 greens. |
| 03:56.55 | Amarande | As for higher gear requirements for heroics ... |
| 03:56.59 | Amarande | well ... let's put it this way |
| 03:57.01 | Jerub | was the easiest ToC run i've ever done. |
| 03:57.10 | Amarande | in BC, you needed that gear, because BC heroics were just brutal |
| 03:57.15 | WobWork | goddamn normal ToC |
| 03:57.25 | Amarande | in WotLK, you don't so much *need* the gear, as it is *reasonable* to expect people to have at least decent blues first |
| 03:57.40 | WobWork | you never realise you're in normal ToC and not heroic until the badges don't drop and everything seems surprisingly -easy- =P |
| 03:57.49 | Jerub | WobWork: hahahahahaha |
| 03:57.51 | Amarande | simply because WotLK gives such easy access to at least starter grade blues via dailies and the resulting rep and gobs of gold |
| 03:58.02 | Jerub | i did 1/2 HoL and we were all like 'wtf is this so easy' before 'omg it's on norm' |
| 03:58.13 | WobWork | Amarande: and normal toc gears people up ridiculously fast |
| 03:58.19 | Amarande | so WotLK, despite reasonably expecting better gear for 80 dungeons |
| 03:58.24 | Amarande | is actually better off |
| 03:58.39 | Amarande | BC had a huge spiral of sadness because not only did you need to be geared but it was almost impossible to *get* geared in the later months of it |
| 03:58.48 | WobWork | oh god, BT =( |
| 03:58.51 | Amarande | because most of the reasonable starter heroic/raid gear required that you either |
| 03:58.59 | Amarande | a) go to heroics, which required you already -have- heroic/raid gear pretty much |
| 03:59.14 | WobWork | I got -so- sick of TK heroics |
| 03:59.15 | Amarande | b) go to level 70 normal instances, which by late BC people had abandoned in favor of the heroics |
| 03:59.28 | WobWork | except Mechanar |
| 03:59.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 03:59.39 | WobWork | I could run that all day, if there was a lock in the party |
| 03:59.39 | Jerub | i guess tihs is why we have the easish heroics, and the badge system we have now |
| 03:59.43 | Amarande | or c) rep up with factions, and at that point most factions had little in the way of dailies or turnins at the higher end, so that STILL meant going to level 70 instances which leads back to b. |
| 03:59.58 | WobWork | it was a viscous circle |
| 04:00.08 | Amarande | Wob: indeed |
| 04:00.12 | Amarande | also, to make it worse |
| 04:00.13 | WobWork | cause people circled... then got bogged down... and stopped =P |
| 04:00.21 | Amarande | level 70 BC dungeon bosses tended to have larger loot tables |
| 04:00.32 | Amarande | each heroic boss in WotLK seems to have fewer possible items, in general |
| 04:00.46 | Amarande | so not only did you have to run those 70 dungeons but you had to do them a lot in order to actually get what you needed |
| 04:00.53 | Jerub | i <3 how i can get a little bit of U25 just by being an awesome heroic healer. |
| 04:00.54 | WobWork | goddamn abacus =( |
| 04:01.03 | Amarande | whereas WotLK, you usually don't have to do a heroic more than once or twice unless you are really unlucky or are rep farming |
| 04:01.22 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, four times - every end boss drops four purple items |
| 04:01.24 | WobWork | Amarande: ... can I just say "Seal of the Pantheon" and "Essence of Gossamar"? =P |
| 04:01.32 | ZorbaTHut | but still, only four items. |
| 04:01.33 | Ycarene | I got my abacus like two weeks before wotlk came out and replaced it almost instantly. |
| 04:01.45 | Amarande | Zorba: exactly |
| 04:01.52 | Amarande | whereas BC bosses had huge honking long loot tables |
| 04:01.59 | WobWork | I ground HoL/AN -so- many times for those damned items =( |
| 04:02.00 | Amarande | also, WotLK heroic gear is mix and match |
| 04:02.07 | Amarande | while in BC they were still doing the Dungeon Sets |
| 04:02.23 | ZorbaTHut | wob, I've seen three Gossamers, and I've only run it five times ;) |
| 04:02.33 | Amarande | which were just PURE EVIL, especially when your dungeon set (as warlocks' did for instance) required two items from the SAME boss |
| 04:02.41 | Amarande | especially when that boss was from an instance everyone HATED |
| 04:02.45 | Amarande | (Shadow Labs, I'm looking at you) |
| 04:02.45 | ZorbaTHut | although VH is a bitch in that regards |
| 04:02.47 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: hates you, preciousssws |
| 04:02.53 | ZorbaTHut | I've run VH 13 times now, and still haven't seen Lavanthor |
| 04:02.56 | Jerub | I <3 VH |
| 04:03.04 | Amarande | Zorba: yeah, but at least it's easy to get a group for VH |
| 04:03.08 | ZorbaTHut | true |
| 04:03.10 | Dagmar | Amarande: Problem. The odds of two drops coming off the same boss is the same as two drops coming from two bosses. |
| 04:03.10 | WobWork | I <3 VH just cause it's so handy to get to |
| 04:03.10 | Amarande | because most people won't pass up three quick badges and the rep |
| 04:03.23 | Dagmar | They're just not as likely to both drop at the same time |
| 04:03.46 | WobWork | Dagmar: there's more chance in getting two items off two bosses that you want |
| 04:03.53 | WobWork | than two items off a single boss a single time =P |
| 04:04.03 | WobWork | if the bosses only drop one item, say =P |
| 04:04.07 | Amarande | Dagmar: Remember, though. WotLK gear is mix and match. |
| 04:04.15 | Dagmar | WobWork: If they only drop one item, but you're still basically running the same odds |
| 04:04.21 | WobWork | not so |
| 04:04.22 | Amarande | In BC, pretty much your first gear objective at 70 was your Dungeon Set 3 before you continued from there. |
| 04:04.24 | Dagmar | THen again people just love to torture themselves |
| 04:04.28 | WobWork | There's a chance both items will drop one from each boss |
| 04:04.31 | Amarande | Now imagine being a warlock in late BC. |
| 04:04.36 | WobWork | but there's no chance that two items will drop off a single boss |
| 04:04.36 | Dagmar | Amarande: Wasn't for me |
| 04:04.40 | Amarande | TWO of your Oblivion items are both 12% drops from Murmur. |
| 04:05.07 | Amarande | Murmur is the last boss of Shadow Labs, an instance that was terribly hard to get groups for |
| 04:05.07 | WobWork | Murmur: *HONK!* *QUARK!* |
| 04:05.13 | Dagmar | I take what drops and could give two craps about the odds |
| 04:05.17 | Amarande | and when you DID get groups for them, half the time they broke up after Inciter or Vorpil due to excessive frustration |
| 04:05.23 | Ycarene | I hated shadow labs, especially since you had to go there to get your kara key. |
| 04:05.39 | Amarande | If you were LUCKY, you got a few people together who still wanted their kara key and there you went. |
| 04:05.40 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:05.56 | Amarande | But that still only got you one pass through. |
| 04:05.57 | Dagmar | Lucky? |
| 04:06.13 | Amarande | And since warlocks needed 2 set items from the last boss of the dungeon, you needed usually several trips. |
| 04:06.24 | Dagmar | ./guild Hey guys... You bored? What say we see how quick we can drop teh Kara bosses now that we're 80 |
| 04:06.33 | Dagmar | You can five man that thing now |
| 04:07.07 | WobWork | I can't even get excited over steamrolling kara now =( |
| 04:07.18 | Amarande | Vorpil was also an annoying gear checky boss, too, in large part. |
| 04:07.27 | Dagmar | Right so that "you needed several trips" thing seems like you're taking the approach that once you've got the drops, you're "done" and there's no point in going back |
| 04:07.28 | WobWork | truth |
| 04:07.31 | Amarande | So a lot of times you never even got to Murmur because the party would get frustrated and quit. |
| 04:07.34 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 04:07.35 | Dagmar | Thinking like that isn't sane for a game |
| 04:07.46 | Dagmar | ...because it's a game, not a job. |
| 04:07.49 | Amarande | Dagmar: for a lot of people that was the case |
| 04:07.57 | Amarande | they got the gear they needed, and then they stopped doing that instance |
| 04:07.59 | Dagmar | Those people probably have shit jobs |
| 04:08.03 | WobWork | Dagmar: well. Oculus, is one instance I do once on heroic for the achievement on each toon |
| 04:08.07 | End | it's weird, because it was -normal mode- that you did :P |
| 04:08.08 | WobWork | and that's it =P |
| 04:08.09 | Amarande | Shadow Labs and Shattered Halls were especially prone to this, because so many people hated the boss battles there |
| 04:08.17 | End | I mean |
| 04:08.21 | End | weird compared to now |
| 04:08.26 | Dagmar | WobWork: If it were a bit shorter. Maybe one or two less island hops, I wouldn't be avoiding that one |
| 04:08.44 | Amarande | And god help you if you wanted something from Heroic Crypts. |
| 04:08.50 | Amarande | Because NO ONE WENT TO HEROIC CRYPTS. |
| 04:08.58 | Dagmar | There's LOTS of warping around in freaking Oculus. I don't mind the vehicles one bit because there's no tards in my guild |
| 04:09.09 | WobWork | well nowadays, people run all the instances, because even if they don't want the drops, they still get the badges |
| 04:09.10 | Amarande | Mainly, because there were only two bosses, and it wasn't worth the time and torture for just two badges. |
| 04:09.16 | Dagmar | Amarande: Those and HP were a bitch at the level they were |
| 04:09.19 | Jerub | I hate occy |
| 04:09.26 | Jerub | but i haven't done it on heroic yet. |
| 04:09.26 | Dagmar | Every step of the freaking way was a struggle, even if you're "geared" for it |
| 04:09.30 | WobWork | I hated having to explain the entire run |
| 04:09.33 | Amarande | There was also the STUPID GLOWIE BALL. |
| 04:09.36 | Dagmar | Those damn things were rough at 75 |
| 04:09.47 | Amarande | Actually, that gives me bad memories. SCREW YOU GLOWIE BALL. |
| 04:09.51 | Dagmar | lo |
| 04:09.53 | Dagmar | ll |
| 04:09.57 | Amarande | You know the one I mean. |
| 04:10.10 | WobWork | glowy ball? |
| 04:10.23 | WobWork | oh beholder |
| 04:10.26 | WobWork | yeah |
| 04:10.28 | WobWork | he sucked |
| 04:10.29 | Amarande | Wob: One of the most deadly mobs in crypts, mainly because it takes just a second too long to register |
| 04:10.33 | Amarande | And I don't mean the eye boss. |
| 04:10.42 | WobWork | ah, the one that tossed you back |
| 04:10.43 | Amarande | Basically. The one time I *DID* get to go to heroic crypts, I was called in as subs after the first boss was downed |
| 04:11.04 | Amarande | And since the person who had left was the warlock, I couldn't get a summon and had to walk. |
| 04:11.16 | Amarande | I got in, noticed there were no respawns, so I just walk on down to meet up with the party ... |
| 04:11.25 | Amarande | and as I'm crossing the bridge, I see this little red glowie ball. |
| 04:11.46 | Amarande | I didn't think much of it at first, because I figured, there's no respawns, and how could the party have missed something *on the bridge they had to come across*? |
| 04:11.59 | *** join/#wowuidev bvtbttrnqj (i=iamparad@c-68-57-80-15.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 04:12.11 | Amarande | Well, then I see it's red named and hostile and begin to run, and before I get very far, I'm being launched into the air against the side of the room and then I had a nice fall to my dooooooooooo ..... |
| 04:12.29 | Amarande | Fuck you glowie ball. |
| 04:12.34 | Amarande | :| |
| 04:12.40 | WobWork | =| |
| 04:14.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Jerek_Dain (n=JerekDai@71.82.127.149) |
| 04:14.04 | Amarande | Like I said, it's deadly because the amount of time to register that it *isn't* just scenery, and that it *is* hostile, is enough for it to launch you. :) |
| 04:14.39 | Amarande | I'm just glad I wasn't a Paladin. |
| 04:14.55 | Amarande | After all, then my first reaction to a fatal fall would probably be to bubble, and then I'd have been stuck at the bottom of the bridge with no way to get back up heh |
| 04:15.34 | Gnarfoz | no, those kinds of falls instakill anyone |
| 04:15.37 | Gnarfoz | even paladins ;) |
| 04:15.51 | Amarande | ah, is that bridge on the edge of outland voidy type space? |
| 04:16.13 | Amarande | I know WoW is pretty rife with spots you can fall in and can't get out of, though |
| 04:16.24 | Amarande | like I remember falling once in Ashenvale and being stuck behind a tree I couldn't jump around |
| 04:16.37 | Amarande | and there's that stupid little pit in Burning Steppes, which hopefully is fixed up in Cataclysm |
| 04:16.40 | Gnarfoz | I'd say those spots are rather rate, actually oO |
| 04:17.26 | Amarande | There's also getting stuck on outer ledges in Outland pre 70 where the only way off is off into the twisting nethery void, and having your hearthstone on CD |
| 04:17.52 | Jerub | hm, i can't remember the name of the zones. |
| 04:18.01 | Amarande | I remember the pit in Burning Steppes the most, though |
| 04:18.16 | Jerub | checks a map |
| 04:18.23 | Amarande | the main problem with that one is it's shallowish and not too sharp edged, so you can't really see it well from a distance |
| 04:18.36 | Amarande | it's also easy to fall into if you are making circuits around the perimeter for thorium |
| 04:18.37 | Jerub | I once jumped down a waterfall and it resulted in wow crashing, and i had to file a ticket to get moved. |
| 04:19.03 | Jerub | ah, between darkshore and felwood. |
| 04:19.30 | Amarande | also, it's too shallow to take damage falling into (so you'll never die falling in), AND it's really far from the nearest mobs so you can't get them to kill you, AND it's JUST deep and steep enough that you can't climb out of it even with a mount. |
| 04:19.47 | Amarande | Guess who landed in there while mining thorium and had their hearthstone on CD and had to /g for a summon to Shattrath to get out? :) |
| 04:21.28 | Amarande | Jerub: I remember falling off that cliff ... but I don't remember wow crashing or needing a ticket to get moved |
| 04:21.44 | Amarande | however, I do remember having a literally half hour corpse run after that :| |
| 04:22.25 | Amarande | since I died in the cliffs, which were too high to climb up to as a ghost to get to my body |
| 04:22.55 | Amarande | so I had to, as a ghost, head all the way south out of Darkshore, all the way through most of Ashenvale, back north into Felwood and jump down the cliff again as a ghost in order to get to my body :| |
| 04:23.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Maldivia (n=the_real@merge.beerzone.dk) |
| 04:24.05 | Amarande | At least one can walk through Astranaar as a horde ghost without the night elves getting you. Nyahnyah, Alliance. :D |
| 04:26.15 | WobWork | hehe |
| 04:26.22 | WobWork | I tried running from Darkshore to Darnassus |
| 04:26.26 | WobWork | as a horde |
| 04:26.47 | WobWork | well, when I say 'running' I meant after the first time of swimming |
| 04:26.49 | WobWork | wherein I died |
| 04:26.55 | WobWork | Then running as a ghost |
| 04:26.58 | WobWork | until I died as a ghost |
| 04:27.14 | WobWork | Then I had to die as a ghost multiple times in order to get my 'corpse' out of deep water |
| 04:27.39 | WobWork | and then finally get to Darnassus and complete the damn fire festival quests =P |
| 04:29.13 | Amarande | hmm |
| 04:29.17 | Amarande | I remember just taking the boat, actually |
| 04:29.39 | Amarande | the Darkshore guards don't seem particularly interested in following you onto the boat, nor do the boat NPCs seem to care to attack you |
| 04:29.55 | Amarande | btw, where is the boat from Darnassus going to go in Cataclysm if Auberdine is nuked? |
| 04:30.21 | kd3 | the new alliance base in north darkshore? |
| 04:30.48 | Amarande | Wob: I can get into Darnassus dying only once, pretty much |
| 04:30.59 | Amarande | Basically ... |
| 04:31.22 | Amarande | Get onto the boat, jump off the boat BEFORE it gets to the Darnassus dock (guards won't aggro) |
| 04:31.34 | Amarande | stay underwater and go around Teldrassil until you get to the roots on the eastern side |
| 04:31.41 | Amarande | think it was around 74,74 or thereabouts that you want to get to |
| 04:31.58 | Amarande | then you climb as far up the root as you can and hurl yourself onto the ground below it |
| 04:32.00 | Amarande | and spirit rez |
| 04:33.07 | Amarande | and since spirit healers don't care about faction, you end up in Dolanaar |
| 04:33.11 | Jerub | I've done the darkshore to daranassus corpserun |
| 04:33.19 | Jerub | in aquatic form. |
| 04:33.19 | Amarande | and you're still not even PvP flagged unless you actually enter Darnassus :) |
| 04:33.31 | Amarande | that's how I did the Teldrassil exploration achievement on my lock |
| 04:33.33 | Jerub | I saved myself from res sickness by hitting 'accept' while on the boat |
| 04:34.26 | Amarande | And really after that I felt that the explorer achievement is somewhat unfair to Horde |
| 04:34.50 | Amarande | because Alliance has those heavily protected places like Teldrassil (and maybe the Draenei islands, but nobody goes there anyway ... heh) |
| 04:34.51 | Jerub | Amarande: I got my explorer achievement during the fire festival |
| 04:35.01 | Amarande | while Horde doesn't have any area that's similarly hard for Alliance to reach to get credit for |
| 04:35.22 | kd3 | just go as a group during a 'for the horde!' run? |
| 04:35.47 | Amarande | heh, I'm not sure how well I'd do on such a run kd3 |
| 04:35.51 | Amarande | I have like ... zero resilience :) |
| 04:35.58 | kd3 | so? |
| 04:36.15 | ajmitch | you think people actually bother defending most of the time? |
| 04:36.22 | Jerub | we defended thrall the other day. |
| 04:36.31 | Amarande | you're right, it's darnassus |
| 04:36.32 | Dagmar | I do. |
| 04:36.32 | Jerub | it was epic. none of the alliance actually made it two steps inside the door. |
| 04:36.36 | Amarande | it's about as deserted as exodar heh |
| 04:36.39 | Dagmar | I LOVE free kills in Ironforge |
| 04:36.43 | Jerub | we had a 30man raid lying in wait. |
| 04:37.02 | Jerub | (someone spotted them making the raid in ratchet) |
| 04:37.03 | Amarande | now IF and SW are probably a real pain without arena gear |
| 04:37.27 | Dagmar | There's pretty much one thing that works, and it's using sustained AoE fire as an area-denial tactic |
| 04:37.32 | Jerub | we were doing low level dungeon runs in my guild the other day, for achievements, and getting into SW was annoying. |
| 04:37.47 | Amarande | ugh, that was the worst thing ever for me |
| 04:37.49 | Jerub | and during the fire festival i ran along the tramline on foot ;) |
| 04:37.51 | Dagmar | Drag Wrynn off into that side room and then every caster with AoE just hammer the antechamber. |
| 04:37.54 | Dagmar | No one is getting through. |
| 04:38.03 | Amarande | I had to get naked because I knew there'd be lots of corpse running involved |
| 04:38.13 | Amarande | And it really didn't help either that |
| 04:38.25 | Amarande | 1) I had never played Alliance much before that, so I didn't know the lay of the land in SW |
| 04:38.50 | Amarande | and 2) WotLK was still really new, and just about every WoW site had incorrect coordinates for the Stockades entrance |
| 04:38.52 | Amarande | so I kept getting lost |
| 04:39.09 | Jerub | hahahaha |
| 04:39.26 | Jerub | Amarande: yeah, we had someone get lost and ganked a few times. |
| 04:39.41 | Shirik | DOS is so |
| 04:39.42 | Shirik | so bad |
| 04:39.43 | Jerub | we had cleared most of the isntance before they got there. |
| 04:39.50 | Jerub | Shirik: DOS? |
| 04:39.52 | Jerub | as in MS-DOS? |
| 04:39.54 | Shirik | yes |
| 04:40.01 | Shirik | how to output a blank line |
| 04:40.02 | Shirik | echo. |
| 04:40.03 | Amarande | MS-DOG? :) |
| 04:40.09 | Shirik | . is required |
| 04:40.11 | Shirik | and cannot have a space |
| 04:40.33 | Shirik | both `echo` and `echo .` do something different |
| 04:40.40 | Dagmar | Pretty sure 'echo " "' works too |
| 04:41.12 | kd3 | whee string failures on the ptr again |
| 04:42.51 | Amarande | I don't know how people manage the Stockade achievement as horde on more hardcore PvP servers. :) |
| 04:43.13 | Amarande | I wonder if on some servers there's no real choice of it but to do lots of arena, get a really high rating and be able to stack the highest resil gear available just to get that one achievement |
| 04:43.49 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-143-5.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 04:43.55 | Amarande | rating requirements on pvp gear was the most fail idea ever :S |
| 04:44.23 | Amarande | it makes it even more impossible to catch up in arena than it ever was to, say, catch up in BC PvE |
| 04:44.31 | Jerub | Shirik: I had a coworker send a patch for a piece of software upstream on monday, it was rejected because it would decrease efficiency on MS-DOS too much. |
| 04:44.53 | Dagmar | *snicker* |
| 04:44.56 | Amarande | LOL! |
| 04:45.15 | Amarande | I mean on that impossibility ... I am a chess player. I therefore know very intimately how ELO rating systems work. |
| 04:45.46 | Amarande | One of the things I therefore know very well then is, even if there wasn't a Blizzard matching system and you WERE allowed to actively choose which teams you played against |
| 04:45.58 | Dagmar | It would be gamed like a mother |
| 04:46.27 | Amarande | Dagmar: basically, the thing about Elo is, you really can't ever push your rating much more than 400 points above your opposition even if you always win |
| 04:46.33 | Dagmar | I know 4-5 grandmasters |
| 04:46.40 | Dagmar | I have to listen to it when I go to the coffee house |
| 04:46.59 | Shirik | no Dagmar |
| 04:47.01 | Shirik | this is not Windows |
| 04:47.03 | Shirik | er |
| 04:47.03 | Amarande | therefore, even if you cherry picked only weak opponents, you still wouldn't have much luck getting arena gear. |
| 04:47.05 | Shirik | this is not Bash |
| 04:47.09 | Shirik | echo " " will output " " |
| 04:47.24 | Shirik | s/Bash/Any sane shell/ |
| 04:47.24 | Amarande | in order to get your rating high enough to get arena gear, whether Blizzard picked your opponents or not, you pretty much have to play people who already HAVE a rating high enough to get arena gear. |
| 04:47.28 | Amarande | Now you can see the problem. |
| 04:47.35 | Dagmar | Okay well, using batch for anything much is a non-starter for me anyway |
| 04:47.41 | Amarande | They already HAVE arena gear. YOU DON'T. |
| 04:48.19 | Dagmar | I'd install qbasic on things to avoid batch if it required anything like clean outputs |
| 04:48.23 | Amarande | Which means you have piss-poor resil vs. them and since resil seems to be the #1 determinant of PvP outcome, to the point where even actual skill has a hard time compensating, you stand a very slim chance of not getting utterly owned. |
| 04:48.31 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yeah, you can have a gap. |
| 04:48.54 | Amarande | Actually, I'm not even sure anymore if actual skill even counts now in PvP other than maybe at the very highest levels where gear is all equal again |
| 04:48.55 | Dagmar | I have to agree with you about resilience |
| 04:49.24 | Dagmar | I can remember sitting there pouring what *would* have been 2.2k DPS onto some Tauren's face in AV and him just standing there for a good 20 seconds before doing anything about it |
| 04:49.28 | Amarande | or if an untrained monkey with 800 resil will beat a team of topflights just by flinging random poo at their keyboard. :P |
| 04:49.34 | Jerub | i've never done arena. is it worth playing? how do I start? |
| 04:49.48 | Dagmar | Jerub: First... you'll probably need a pacifier. |
| 04:49.58 | Amarande | Jerub: Pacifiers can be acquired in AV. |
| 04:50.34 | Amarande | If you are Horde anyway. |
| 04:50.40 | Dagmar | Then you have to be willing to post to the forums "U SHUD NERF <insert other class signature ability here> BCUZ IT R TOO OP" |
| 04:50.42 | Ackis | Cairenn/Seerah: Pictures of kitties uploaded to facebook, one where one of the buggers is sticking his tongue out at the camera :P |
| 04:50.49 | Amarande | If you're Alliance, you're just screwed, since just about everyone who can drop a pacifier is friendly to Alliance. :) |
| 04:50.50 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 04:50.52 | Cairenn | okay |
| 04:50.57 | Seerah | :) |
| 04:50.58 | Dagmar | haha |
| 04:51.08 | Jerub | ... is this a joke? |
| 04:51.28 | Amarande | Jerub: Seriously, there are three things you need to get started in arena. |
| 04:51.32 | Amarande | actually, four. |
| 04:51.33 | Jerub | Are you thinking of http://www.wowwiki.com/Nubless_Pacifier ? |
| 04:51.47 | Amarande | 1. One, two, or four friends who have this same masochistic interest as you. |
| 04:51.51 | Amarande | 2. Lots of spare time. |
| 04:51.58 | Amarande | 3. Ventrilo would be a really good idea. |
| 04:52.07 | Amarande | 4. Most importantly, tissues. You are going to need a lot of tissues. |
| 04:52.23 | Seerah | are you stuffing your bra? |
| 04:52.35 | Amarande | Seerah: Nope, these are for him to cry into. |
| 04:52.52 | Amarande | The reason you are going to need a lot of tissues is because of the thrice-damned fact that you can only get decent PvP gear AFTER you establish a reasonably high arena rating. |
| 04:53.08 | Jerub | so i take it if I pvp in my pve gear, i'll die? |
| 04:53.14 | Jerub | I have 50k honor sitting there unspent. |
| 04:53.18 | Dagmar | Not always |
| 04:53.22 | Amarande | However, without the PvP gear to begin with, establishing this rating is going to involve a lot of small forges ahead, a lot of giant steps backward, and a lot of crying, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. |
| 04:53.24 | Dagmar | 57k here. |
| 04:53.27 | Amarande | The latter being why you need the tissues. :) |
| 04:53.41 | Dagmar | At 80 there's plenty of people who aren't making PvP their life |
| 04:53.48 | Dagmar | They're just in it to shoot people and make a ruckus |
| 04:54.06 | Dagmar | Amarande: ...and the pacifier |
| 04:54.10 | Amarande | Jerub: basically, yeah, if you PvP in your PvE gear, you'll die. :) |
| 04:54.16 | Amarande | ESPECIALLY in arena. |
| 04:54.28 | Dagmar | In Isle of COnquest, not so much |
| 04:54.30 | Amarande | All I can really say is that in the beginning, stack stam. |
| 04:54.42 | Amarande | You really can't get enough resil to matter from gems, so you pretty much have to stack stam. |
| 04:54.45 | Dagmar | Oh god yes |
| 04:54.52 | Shirik | (00:52:16) (@Seerah) are you stuffing your bra? |
| 04:54.53 | Shirik | o.O |
| 04:55.06 | Jerub | my bear has 37k hp, but that's not a useful pvp form afaik |
| 04:55.10 | Dagmar | ...or just hop on those guns in IoC and begin murdering people en masse. |
| 04:55.24 | Dagmar | Not being able to shoot me > resilience |
| 04:55.25 | Seerah | http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=facetious&gwp=13 |
| 04:55.37 | Jerub | so can i buy any decent pvp gear with that mcuh honour? i've never looked. |
| 04:55.39 | Dagmar | <--- knows to find a _really_ unfair advantage |
| 04:55.46 | Amarande | Also: If your main is a warlock, roll a new character to do serious PvP with. |
| 04:55.57 | kd3 | qq |
| 04:56.14 | Dagmar | Amarande: I take it that Wintergrasp Buff Of Overpoweredness is now no longer happening? |
| 04:56.34 | Amarande | The warlock, unfortunately, while it's had a few buffs to its cause lately, and will be helped out some more with Cataclysm (since apparently Armor Penetration gear is going away), is simply by design the least suited class to PvP. |
| 04:56.52 | Dagmar | I know on off hours you used to see some damn 'lock come up and cast whassit, corruption(?) on the big siege engine and kill it, and everyone inside. |
| 04:56.52 | kd3 | starts playing the world's smallest violin |
| 04:57.13 | Dagmar | Theres' no amount of strategy that's going to help when one dude can one-shot your whole damn group |
| 04:57.19 | Amarande | kd3: I'm thinking of it more this way. |
| 04:57.24 | Fisker | thinks that's impossible as Fisker has the worlds smallest violin |
| 04:57.28 | Jerub | my main is a drood |
| 04:57.28 | Fisker | btw kd3 |
| 04:57.33 | Fisker | my stomach hurts :( |
| 04:57.39 | Fisker | bawwws |
| 04:57.41 | Amarande | None of warlocks' means of significant offense really pan out well in an organized PvP environment. |
| 04:57.50 | kd3 | organized? pvp? |
| 04:57.57 | Amarande | kd3: like this "arena" thing |
| 04:58.06 | Dagmar | Amarande: That's probably why hitting Witergrasp at 4am was so popular then |
| 04:58.18 | Amarande | The problem is that warlocks have two main means of offense: |
| 04:58.23 | kd3 | so... don't play arena? |
| 04:58.30 | kd3 | fear. nuke |
| 04:58.33 | Dagmar | A clothie running around droping 20k a tick dots and with 55k hit points.... pfft |
| 04:58.33 | Amarande | a) Shadow Bolt and the like, which for the most part cast far too slowly to be viable. |
| 04:58.42 | Amarande | b) Debuffs, including Fear and DoTs. |
| 04:59.17 | Amarande | Unfortunately, except for curses, all Warlock debuffs are Magic, and therefore all the other side needs is a priest to completely counter them. |
| 04:59.28 | Amarande | Other than the backlash damage from UA, but that's piddly with the healing people have access to now. |
| 04:59.41 | kd3 | then... lock down the priest and kill it? |
| 05:00.03 | Amarande | kd3: easier said than done, too |
| 05:00.23 | Amarande | the side with a warlock usually ends up on the defensive as soon as the opponents see this, because for various reasons warlocks are by far squishier than just about any other class in PvP |
| 05:00.25 | kd3 | you're complaining about arena. are your partners not helping you nuke the priest? |
| 05:01.44 | Amarande | as for "don't play arena" |
| 05:01.48 | Amarande | talk to Blizzard about that one |
| 05:02.12 | Amarande | they were the ones that saw fit to put in all these rating requirements so only players experienced in, specifically, the arena format get to have high end PvP gear |
| 05:02.25 | kd3 | so get top rank-1? |
| 05:02.32 | kd3 | the stuff sans arena rating requiremetns? |
| 05:02.33 | Fisker | kd3 |
| 05:02.34 | Fisker | sup? |
| 05:02.38 | kd3 | 'lo |
| 05:02.43 | Amarande | It doesn't matter if you're the best person in the world in WG, EotS, AB, AV, WSG, and SotA. You still have to do arena to get that gear. |
| 05:03.03 | Amarande | kd3: if I remember the changes to the tiers, that only gets you "starter" PvP gear |
| 05:03.12 | Amarande | pretty much all the epic stuff is controlled by rating |
| 05:03.17 | Amarande | ever since S3, actually |
| 05:03.21 | Dagmar | yep\ |
| 05:03.30 | Fisker | ssd i'm getting my damn ssd |
| 05:03.33 | Jerub | you can buy some pvp gear with honor, conquest and stone keeper tokens, cna't oy?u |
| 05:03.34 | ajmitch | or you pick it up with emblems of conquest/triumph |
| 05:03.37 | Jerub | like to get started? |
| 05:03.41 | Fisker | 16. september 2009 02:19 Ankommet til 704 Københavns Pakkecenter |
| 05:03.54 | Dagmar | Jerub: Mainly it's stuff you wouldn't even wear to a PvE run |
| 05:03.54 | Amarande | Jerub: well, yeah, conquest and triumph emblems |
| 05:03.57 | ajmitch | you can get furious gladiator gear from emblems of triumph at the moment, I think |
| 05:04.04 | ajmitch | if you want to waste them on that |
| 05:04.09 | Amarande | those are the only ones even half worth getting though |
| 05:04.15 | Amarande | and it's still a terrible waste of badges |
| 05:04.20 | Jerub | I have 1 piece of furious gladiator from a 25voa |
| 05:04.22 | kd3 | so... gasp. pvp gear without arena requirements |
| 05:04.58 | zenzelezz | Vengeful, Hateful, Furious... the next gladiator rank should be called "Compassionate Gladiator" |
| 05:05.26 | Amarande | Also, you can't PUG your way to arena gear AT ALL |
| 05:05.32 | Amarande | because you need both the personal AND team rating |
| 05:05.46 | Amarande | so you can't even go for it at all without having an established group of people with the same goal in mind |
| 05:06.05 | Amarande | which to me seems stupidly lame |
| 05:06.17 | ajmitch | this is probably one reason for introducing rated BGs |
| 05:06.24 | kd3 | ^ |
| 05:06.24 | Amarande | that would be like requiring for raid gear that your guild have a certain performance rating, and not just you |
| 05:06.58 | Amarande | obviously, one can tell that if Blizzard ever did something *that* dumb that it would kill off virtually all friendly guilds :) |
| 05:07.10 | Amarande | so why kill off friendly arena play, too? |
| 05:07.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=Kazie@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 05:07.32 | Shirik | LMAOOOO |
| 05:08.00 | zenzelezz | <Amarande> that would be like requiring for raid gear that your guild have a certain performance rating, and not just you <--- I can picture Illidan 2... "You do not have enough rating." |
| 05:08.46 | Shirik | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/b78dbd8e11355373f727f498728775a5.png |
| 05:09.19 | zenzelezz | heh |
| 05:09.28 | Amarande | I suppose how easily one can get into PvP though really in the end has most to do with how superior S7 gear is to S6 |
| 05:10.03 | Amarande | since it looks like the rating requirements for S6 are so low that all you have to do is keep an unspoiled basic 1500 in one bracket, accumulate your arena points in another bracket, start a new team in the unspoiled bracket (which will come with a basic 1500) and buy away |
| 05:10.38 | Amarande | One can understand the rationale behind rating requirements, as it makes the arena gear a reward for being good. |
| 05:11.05 | Amarande | However, at the same time, Blizzard seems to consistently fail to remember that because of certain considerations, particularly the importance of the single stat Resilience, you need the gear *to* be good in the first place. |
| 05:11.14 | Amarande | This is the basic problem with PvP gear since BC. |
| 05:11.32 | Fisker | herr Shirik |
| 05:11.45 | Amarande | The gear is a reward for performance which heavily leans on having the gear or close to it to begin with. |
| 05:11.57 | Amarande | Can we see a problem with this logic? :) |
| 05:12.28 | Fisker | i hate your ui Shirik |
| 05:12.32 | Fisker | i hope it goes to hell and dies |
| 05:12.41 | Fisker | also l2disable |
| 05:12.44 | Shirik | my ui? |
| 05:12.54 | Amarande | The whole arena system is brought to you by the letters Q and Q and by the number MOAR. |
| 05:13.15 | kd3 | enough tabs there in chrome? |
| 05:13.23 | Shirik | That's pretty low |
| 05:14.44 | Fisker | yes Shirik |
| 05:14.52 | Fisker | small taskbar + text = gay |
| 05:15.01 | Shirik | negative |
| 05:15.02 | Amarande | See, lower end PvP'ers like us get to QQ because we can't have the good PvP gear. |
| 05:15.08 | Amarande | High end PvP'ers get to QQ just as much, too. |
| 05:15.09 | Fisker | yes Shirik |
| 05:15.13 | Shirik | I am not a Mac user |
| 05:15.18 | Shirik | nor do I wish to be affiliated with being one |
| 05:15.55 | Amarande | This is because the highest ranked arena teams almost never get to play, because as their rating gets more stratospheric the chance that even the second highest active team will get matched with them rather than with the third highest active team decreases further and further. |
| 05:16.44 | Amarande | And when you *do* get matched with that team, you get to play maybe one game. And that's it for the night, because if you do anything whatsoever to try to get them to stay and play more so you can actually, you know, have some FUN |
| 05:16.51 | Amarande | it's OMG WIN TRADING B& AND GIVE BACK S7 |
| 05:17.23 | Amarande | Apparently, Blizzard seems to have forgotten the all-important notion that people play games *because they are fun*. :) |
| 05:17.36 | Amarande | When games are no longer fun, people QQ. |
| 05:17.39 | kd3 | wonders if it's experience or hearsay talking |
| 05:17.49 | Amarande | kd3: I read a lot about the topic on the forums |
| 05:17.56 | Amarande | it apparently was the worst around S4 |
| 05:18.02 | kd3 | tabs back out |
| 05:18.15 | Fisker | GC promised me a damn patch |
| 05:18.24 | Amarande | a number of high ranking teams were complaining of being accused of win trading and being forced to take 72 hour vacations and return their S4 gear to Blizzard |
| 05:19.10 | Amarande | And the known facts got so fuzzy that mass paranoia ensued, to the point that top arena teams were afraid to even talk about arena with anyone outside their teams lest they be accused of win trading |
| 05:19.24 | Amarande | You know what the laughable thing is? |
| 05:19.30 | ZorbaTHut | it'd be kind of interesting if Blizzard managed to figure out some kind of reliable handicapping system, so that a 2400 rating team could fight a 1500 rating team and have a "fair fight" |
| 05:19.46 | Amarande | Let's put it bluntly ... in the game from which we get the rating system used in WoW arenas, namely chess |
| 05:19.52 | Corrodias | i dunno... wow has always been about grinding and angst |
| 05:19.56 | ZorbaTHut | I don't have a lot of trust in Blizzard's ability to do so, but it'd be neat |
| 05:20.12 | Amarande | basically the ENTIRE top end tournament circuit is based on exactly the sort of fixed matchups that are called "blatant win trading" here heh |
| 05:20.25 | Amarande | this is WHY Kasparov, Kramnik and the like maintained such high ratings so easily |
| 05:20.56 | Amarande | they played almost exclusively in high end invitational tournaments specifically for the few very top rated players in the world, thus ensuring they almost never came into contact with players low enough in rating to taint their high scores significantly |
| 05:21.11 | Amarande | and yet, in chess, this is not called "win trading" but "the way things are" |
| 05:21.57 | Corrodias | innnteresting |
| 05:22.01 | Amarande | although, when I get on this topic, I start to end up on tangents of potential legal paranoia on the part of Blizzard |
| 05:22.10 | Amarande | mainly, the thing that sticks in my mind as a potential Blizzard worry is gambling laws |
| 05:22.18 | Amarande | with the whole e-sport thing and such |
| 05:23.00 | Amarande | remember, chess is much more established than WoW as a pure contest of skill |
| 05:23.54 | Amarande | WoW is fairly new, and suffers (from the point of view of potential government busybody intrusion to tournaments with entry fees and RL prizes) from two chief potential sticking points, namely that it does have random elements, and it's also a video game in a day and age where a lot of people want video games cracked down on. |
| 05:24.21 | Amarande | I wouldn't put it past some disgruntled e-sport tournament participant to go to his rich connected parents and try to have the hammer brought down on the WoW Arena claiming it's a gambling scam. |
| 05:24.44 | Amarande | IANAL so I don't know if that would fly at all in court, but it'd certainly throw a nasty wrench in Blizzard's PR |
| 05:25.32 | Amarande | therefore, it seems to behoove Blizzard to keep things -especially- squeaky clean and avoid even the -appearance- of corruption I suppose? |
| 05:25.47 | Corrodias | or it could further lend them credence in "professional sports" to be the ones to be accused |
| 05:26.40 | Amarande | I still find the notion of professional gaming to be kinda silly |
| 05:26.42 | Amarande | it's gaming |
| 05:26.44 | Amarande | it's supposed to be fun :) |
| 05:26.49 | Amarande | it's not supposed to be your job |
| 05:27.05 | Corrodias | the same could be said about any sport, i think |
| 05:27.13 | Amarande | Not to mention I've never quite understood the choice of games in most pro gaming leagues |
| 05:27.17 | Amarande | like, for instance, Counter-Strike |
| 05:27.30 | Arrowmaster | oh god |
| 05:27.35 | Amarande | one would think a FPS with equal objectives on both sides, like Unreal Tournament team deathmatch, would be favored instead |
| 05:27.38 | Arrowmaster | dont fucking get me started on counter-strike players |
| 05:27.51 | Corrodias | it's like using a crowbar to hit an alien. it's not "supposed to be" a weapon, but what things are or are not "supposed" is entirely pointless. |
| 05:27.59 | Arrowmaster | ive worked major lan partys and had to deal with counter-strike tournies |
| 05:28.00 | Ycarene | Anyone use minimap button frame? |
| 05:28.12 | Amarande | Arrow: what is it about CS, anyway? |
| 05:28.38 | Amarande | I mean, how did it edge out in the tournament popularity vs. things like HL2 DM and UT2004? |
| 05:29.14 | Amarande | Like I said, one would think a tournament game would more ideally be a game (and yeah, actually WoW Arena is indeed one of them) where both sides have identical objectives |
| 05:29.16 | Corrodias | my intuitive guess would be that people already good at the game wouldn't want to change to another game |
| 05:29.36 | Jerub | I have hated counterstrike since i played beta4 at a lan. |
| 05:29.51 | Arrowmaster | well originally it was a good fps that was in a nice spot between the twitchy death match games that tend to end up as 1v1s and the slower paced fps games like raven sheild i guess |
| 05:29.52 | Amarande | I tried CS:Source, it was kinda meh. |
| 05:29.56 | Amarande | And I died a lot. |
| 05:30.08 | Amarande | And I got called a noob and idiot for making wise strategic decisions, too. |
| 05:30.17 | Arrowmaster | i started playing CS back in the 0.3 or 0.4 days |
| 05:30.34 | Arrowmaster | the players now are just fucking winy ass bitches |
| 05:30.50 | Arrowmaster | they dont even fucking play the game as its intended they just play a TDM |
| 05:30.59 | Amarande | For instance. Near the end of one round. It's one where the T's win by default if they have anyone left standing at the end. |
| 05:31.13 | Amarande | I'm the only surviving CT and I have the super awesome sniper (the Krieg 550) |
| 05:31.24 | Arrowmaster | autosnipe |
| 05:31.27 | Amarande | and only have a little bit of health left, the round is almost over and most importantly I have NO IDEA where the remaining one or two T's are |
| 05:31.45 | Amarande | so, instead of going out there with my tiny bit of health and thus making my K550 a gift on a silver platter for the T's to use next round |
| 05:31.58 | Amarande | I camped in a corner, so that I could save the weapon for next round and have 100% health again to use it with. |
| 05:32.01 | Arrowmaster | they wouldnt have used it |
| 05:32.04 | Amarande | And I get called a noob ... |
| 05:32.08 | Arrowmaster | they all run around with nothing but aks |
| 05:32.35 | Amarande | I get called a noob for making a reasonable judgment that the round was lost and therefore seeking to preserve what I can for the next round rather than start it with nothing. :| |
| 05:33.23 | Amarande | and by round was lost, I mean, if I even found the enemy, I had so little health left I'd have probably died before being able to even shoot |
| 05:33.58 | Amarande | apparently, they don't like it when you use strategy. |
| 05:34.02 | Amarande | I haven't played CS:S since. |
| 05:34.26 | Jerub | i've never played it |
| 05:34.28 | Corrodias | sounds exactly like almost every other competetive game to me |
| 05:34.29 | Arrowmaster | i havent played the game in many years except with friends |
| 05:34.40 | Amarande | Corrodias: it's more severe in CS:S, though |
| 05:34.41 | Jerub | however, L4D is a game that I enjoy far too much |
| 05:34.45 | Amarande | since when you die, you drop your weapon for the enemy to take |
| 05:34.51 | Corrodias | anybody who doesn't just like to run around in mass chaos gets yelled at |
| 05:34.52 | Amarande | in most FPS, when you die, your weapons just disappear into the ether |
| 05:35.01 | Corrodias | and you have to find a specific group of good people to play with. just like WoW. |
| 05:35.10 | Amarande | also, in CS:S, you don't get to just pick up weapons off the ground like in Doom or UT |
| 05:35.22 | Arrowmaster | i think me and another friend both got over 200 kills on a map of scoutzknifez at a lan party |
| 05:35.39 | Amarande | you have to buy them, which means it behooves you to try to keep weapons between rounds if you at all can |
| 05:36.08 | Amarande | plus you don't get to respawn like you do in most FPS (well, other than LMS games) |
| 05:36.34 | Arrowmaster | you max out on cash every round once you start getting a positive K/D ratio |
| 05:36.47 | Amarande | The other trouble with CS:S was there were only like two or three maps everyone played :| |
| 05:36.49 | Amarande | Ho hum. |
| 05:37.07 | Amarande | UT and UT2004 made me a big fan of custom maps and you hardly ever saw customs in CS:S. |
| 05:37.53 | Amarande | I'm not sure how customs are doing in the newest UT, since I never got around to getting it |
| 05:38.05 | Amarande | although it does seem that even in games that *have* the facility for custom content, we see less and less of it each game now |
| 05:38.16 | Amarande | compare, say, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 in terms of custom content :( |
| 05:38.41 | Arrowmaster | morrowind |
| 05:38.48 | Amarande | It makes me wonder sometimes if amateur game design is doomed to die, probably within the decade |
| 05:39.07 | Corrodias | it would have helped if NWN2 were, you know... better |
| 05:39.12 | Amarande | other than maybe a few backwaters like the iPhone/iPod Touch platform (and even there, you have to have a Mac to develop, so only a small minority have access to the hardware) |
| 05:40.18 | Amarande | Corrodias: NWN1 was probably at least as fearfully buggy at release, too |
| 05:40.54 | Amarande | Arrow: actually that seems to just prove my point |
| 05:41.06 | Amarande | I'm pretty sure a lot more custom stuff was made for Morrowind than for Oblivion, though I could be off there |
| 05:41.12 | Arrowmaster | it was |
| 05:41.19 | Arrowmaster | because oblivion fucking sucked |
| 05:41.50 | Amarande | I wonder what the Dragon Age design tools are going to be like. |
| 05:41.55 | Arrowmaster | although i did find a mod for a replica of clowds sword from ff7ac which was fucking awesome |
| 05:42.03 | Amarande | oh god |
| 05:42.06 | Amarande | buster sword ftl :( |
| 05:42.22 | Arrowmaster | no the one in ff7ac thats made of like 7 different swords |
| 05:43.16 | Arrowmaster | you could pick which parts you wanted to use either separately or added together, was very cool |
| 05:43.31 | Amarande | ah, I didn't get into the FF7 spinoffs |
| 05:43.38 | Amarande | I didn't even think FF7 itself was worth the hype |
| 05:43.40 | Arrowmaster | ff7ac is a movie |
| 05:43.55 | Amarande | FF7 was ok, but not the alpha and omega of games like the fanboys claim :) |
| 05:44.32 | Amarande | I found it good enough to bother to finish the game, though I never bothered with the Weapons or chocobo breeding or KOTR or such |
| 05:44.59 | Arrowmaster | but really because of the dialog change between morrowind and oblivion the modders couldnt do as extensive stuff |
| 05:45.33 | Corrodias | Oblivion removed something from the script language that Morrowind had |
| 05:45.40 | Corrodias | i think it may have been string literals |
| 05:46.05 | Amarande | wow, that was dumb of them |
| 05:46.07 | Amarande | why take a step backwards? |
| 05:46.20 | Corrodias | no idea. |
| 05:46.23 | Amarande | compare to say NWN2, where they pretty much took the same script engine from NWN1 and actually added some extra stuff |
| 05:46.28 | Arrowmaster | you couldnt reference objects by names but had to reference them by ids |
| 05:47.23 | Arrowmaster | perty much all the morrowind limitations were solved by external tools to automatically fix them |
| 05:47.51 | Amarande | Anyway, I'm wondering what's going to happen to amateur game design when the current crop of moddable games go by the wayside. :| |
| 05:48.13 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, the indie game scene is exploding right now. I wouldn't be too worried. |
| 05:48.15 | Amarande | It seems increasingly likely that moddability is going to itself go by the board soon enough, as engines get too complicated and the graphical standard gets too high |
| 05:48.18 | Arrowmaster | we get crap like spore and littlebigplanet |
| 05:48.28 | Amarande | heh |
| 05:48.30 | Amarande | was spore really that bad |
| 05:48.36 | Arrowmaster | YES |
| 05:48.52 | ZorbaTHut | yeah spore was really an abomination of a game |
| 05:48.54 | Amarande | or was it just hated because the DRM was dumb enough to make even, say, your very very very least favorite quest in WoW seem fun and awesome by comparison? :) |
| 05:48.59 | Arrowmaster | although i did get to the center of the galaxy before the game was even released |
| 05:49.18 | ZorbaTHut | take four terrible games, reskin one of them, and package them together |
| 05:49.20 | ZorbaTHut | that's Spore |
| 05:49.24 | Arrowmaster | but really the space age wasnt fun |
| 05:49.35 | Arrowmaster | and yet it was the main game |
| 05:49.42 | ZorbaTHut | it turns out that four crappy games added together doesn't make a good game. |
| 05:49.43 | Amarande | as for LBP, I don't know much about it |
| 05:49.46 | ZorbaTHut | and there is no good game in Spore. |
| 05:49.54 | Amarande | except that it's one of the few things that kept the PS3 platform afloat |
| 05:50.11 | Amarande | although I don't know if the PS3 even now has a real future |
| 05:50.13 | ZorbaTHut | LBP is basically a physics toolbox/puzzle game |
| 05:50.25 | Amarande | or if Sony is probably going to end up following in the footsteps of Sega and end up exiting the console market and only making games instead |
| 05:50.49 | Corrodias | that'd be nice |
| 05:50.54 | ZorbaTHut | the PS3 is a good system in a lot of ways, they just fucked themselves with the initial pricing and not enough good games |
| 05:50.54 | Arrowmaster | i just tried LBP demo the other night, its ok i guess but i dont think doing custom design inside a game is ever a good idea, theres a reason design tools exist |
| 05:51.07 | Corrodias | their internal game team(s) actually has some value |
| 05:51.07 | Amarande | yeah, there *still* isn't much in the way of great games for PS3 |
| 05:51.20 | Arrowmaster | PS3, great hardware, fucking horrible software |
| 05:51.28 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 05:51.32 | Amarande | although personally I don't really find any of the "next" gen consoles (I'm still stuck in PS2 days :P) to have enough awesome for them to warrant me spending the money |
| 05:51.36 | Corrodias | i'm not really convinced about the great hardware part |
| 05:51.42 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: I am glad I have finally found someone else that thinks spore was bad |
| 05:51.50 | Shirik | I don't understand why everyone keeps saying spore is great |
| 05:51.54 | ZorbaTHut | that's another problem with the PS3, the hardware is just too hard to program for |
| 05:51.59 | ZorbaTHut | it is very *powerful* hardware |
| 05:52.02 | Amarande | The 360 has that new Star Ocean game and the Wii has Brawl, but I'm not going to buy a console for ONE game |
| 05:52.03 | ZorbaTHut | but there's a reason we don't code in assembly anymore. |
| 05:52.16 | Corrodias | is it powerful with respect to the things games -need-? |
| 05:52.17 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: 360 has lots of good games |
| 05:52.19 | ZorbaTHut | modern hardware flat-out needs to be more general-purpose than the PS3's is. |
| 05:52.37 | Amarande | Arrow: not much in the way of traditional RPGs, though |
| 05:52.38 | ZorbaTHut | corrodias, yes - if you're willing to spend huge resources optimizing everything |
| 05:52.41 | Shirik | Amarande: Star Ocean is AWESOME |
| 05:52.44 | ZorbaTHut | if you're not, then no, it's brutally slow. |
| 05:52.45 | Amarande | which is by far the bread and butter of my console gaming |
| 05:52.48 | Shirik | Totally worth buying a 360 just for that |
| 05:52.49 | Amarande | Shirik: It's still one game. |
| 05:52.55 | Shirik | I loved it |
| 05:53.05 | Shirik | Granted, I beat it in about 4 days |
| 05:53.09 | Arrowmaster | i got battlefield bad company for like $20 and its a fucking awesome game, not for the gameplay but for the humor that goes along with it |
| 05:53.09 | Shirik | but it was 60 hours play time |
| 05:53.13 | ZorbaTHut | in a lot of ways the PS3 is a system designed specifically for AAA big-budget games. |
| 05:53.15 | Amarande | Well, okay, I could play two games on a 360 if I got one, seeing as KOTOR is one of the backward compatibility games |
| 05:53.16 | Shirik | and I still haven't "beaten" the game |
| 05:53.18 | Amarande | but that's about it. heh |
| 05:53.18 | Shirik | just got to the end |
| 05:53.19 | ZorbaTHut | Turns out AAA big-budget games are kinda on the way out. |
| 05:53.29 | Amarande | Zorba: and good riddance |
| 05:53.41 | ZorbaTHut | I'll be sad if they go away completely |
| 05:53.42 | ZorbaTHut | I mean |
| 05:53.43 | ZorbaTHut | God of War 3 |
| 05:53.52 | ZorbaTHut | can you truthfully tell me that game doesn't look badass? |
| 05:53.57 | Corrodias | i never got around to playing god of war 1. :P |
| 05:53.59 | Amarande | the problem with AAA big budget games is that, unless they are sports games, they almost always gravitate towards one specific gaming type |
| 05:54.15 | Arrowmaster | im thinking about getting WET after i played the demo, it just came out today and i had never even heard of it a week ago |
| 05:54.19 | Amarande | that "third person shooter with a smidge of RPG elements" type like Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry etc. |
| 05:54.21 | ZorbaTHut | but, yeah, the indie games are really starting to nose into the AAA gaming market's house, and poke around in its refrigerator, and use its bathroom |
| 05:54.36 | Amarande | I did try DMC3 and it was pretty fun, but meh. (Also, I died a lot.) |
| 05:54.42 | Corrodias | the advertisement for WET i saw earlier today was utterly uninteresting. i hope the demo sells it better. |
| 05:54.45 | Corrodias | if it's actually decent. |
| 05:55.00 | Amarande | and that "typical AAA" formulaic model is poisoning the RPG genre now, too |
| 05:55.01 | Arrowmaster | no the problem with AAA games is that they hype the fuck out it then you end up with nothing but disappointments |
| 05:55.25 | Amarande | there's all too many so-called RPGs now that turn out to be so much action game and so little RPG that if you call them RPGs, you almost really do have to call the likes of Devil May Cry "RPGs" too |
| 05:55.59 | Corrodias | i am not sure that RPG has a strong definition. role-playing? playing a role? in every game, you play a role. |
| 05:56.02 | Shirik | Star Ocean was a real RPG |
| 05:56.05 | Amarande | News flash, AAA devs: Taking an action game, adding a rudimentary inventory system and calling the health and power bars "HP" and "MP" does not an RPG make :) |
| 05:56.14 | Arrowmaster | Corrodias: demo on 360 and ps3 took me a while to get the hang of the gameplay but then i could complete the demo in like 15 minutes without dying once |
| 05:56.17 | Shirik | Some people think Star Ocean was a movie actually |
| 05:56.20 | Shirik | which is also true |
| 05:56.21 | Corrodias | the common jrpg just has you using menus and following a script |
| 05:56.22 | Shirik | but it was a damn good movie |
| 05:56.34 | Amarande | Shirik: heh, is it as heavy on movie scenes as Star Ocean 3 was? |
| 05:56.39 | Amarande | or Xenosaga I? |
| 05:56.40 | Shirik | Let me put it this way |
| 05:56.44 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: people also think MGS4 was a movie |
| 05:56.44 | Corrodias | Arrowmaster: well, okay, but i wouldn't consider ease to be equivalent to quality |
| 05:56.49 | Arrowmaster | and it was a damn good one |
| 05:56.51 | Shirik | There were at least 3 cut scenes where my controller timed out twice |
| 05:56.54 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, i was about to say that |
| 05:56.55 | Amarande | I remember Xenosaga I was called a fun movie once, too |
| 05:56.59 | Shirik | and I think the controller times out after 15 minutes |
| 05:57.16 | Arrowmaster | Corrodias: no i was just meaning that it took me a while to get the hang of the gameplay but then i started to really love it |
| 05:57.21 | Amarande | I remember the Star Ocean 3 disc transition point made me almost late for work one day :| |
| 05:57.27 | Shirik | but it really is awesome |
| 05:57.50 | Amarande | because IIRC you didn't get a chance to save after the boss fight preceding it |
| 05:57.55 | Thunder_Child | i think the C&C series has the all around best cut scenes of any game |
| 05:57.58 | Amarande | (I think it was a boss fight anyway) |
| 05:58.05 | Amarande | and I had no idea of course how long the cutscenes would be |
| 05:58.09 | Corrodias | heh, lots of games i will probably never play. partly because i spend some of my days talking on irc like this. |
| 05:58.16 | Amarande | and I HAD to save before I could leave for work or I had to do the last dungeon all over again |
| 05:58.36 | Amarande | by the time the cutscene was done, I was like fire-engining it to work heh |
| 05:59.38 | Amarande | actually, this is a major factor that causes me to have great difficulty getting started on the games that I still haven't played yet |
| 05:59.52 | ZorbaTHut | dammit, the EJ prot tanking spreadsheet is still not updated |
| 05:59.54 | Amarande | today's games, especially JRPGs, tend to have a fairly lengthy sequence at the beginning before you can do anything, often before you can even save |
| 06:00.28 | ZorbaTHut | the only game lately that I've seen pull off cutscenes *perfectly* was Dead Space |
| 06:00.31 | Amarande | and oftentimes, when I feel like gaming, I don't have time for that single long burst time investment to get the game rolling before you get more freedom to act :| |
| 06:00.43 | ZorbaTHut | most games just botch them hideously |
| 06:01.06 | Amarande | I'm so used to those lengthy noninteractivity sequences, actually, that I boggled when I started Romancing Sa Ga |
| 06:01.20 | Amarande | and I'm saving, and I look at the time on the save and I'm like OMG I actually finished two quests in the FIRST HOUR |
| 06:01.32 | ZorbaTHut | I used to play FFX with dinner |
| 06:01.37 | ZorbaTHut | I'd make dinner and go to start FFX |
| 06:01.44 | Amarande | most games I'm lucky if I can do anything significant, or even SAVE in the first hour heh |
| 06:01.46 | ZorbaTHut | usually, by the time I had any kind of control over the game, I'd be done with dinner |
| 06:02.49 | Arrowmaster | meh i used to just raid MC while eating dinner |
| 06:02.53 | Amarande | yeah, FFX was pretty bad with that |
| 06:02.57 | Arrowmaster | just autofollow somebody and eat |
| 06:02.59 | Amarande | especially since you couldn't skip cutscenes until FFX-2 |
| 06:03.01 | Arrowmaster | nobody ever notices |
| 06:03.15 | Amarande | and even in FFX-2, if you did skip cutscenes, you lost the % credit for them for that playthrough |
| 06:03.42 | Corrodias | lol |
| 06:03.42 | Amarande | I liked X-2, though |
| 06:03.49 | Amarande | sure, there was a fair amount of bubblegum girlyish type stuff |
| 06:03.56 | Arrowmaster | ill admit, me and a friend did play halo one night for most of an MC raid we were both in |
| 06:03.57 | Amarande | but a lot of it was just plain awesome |
| 06:03.59 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, I've done that as a tank with Ulduar |
| 06:04.16 | ZorbaTHut | grab a few bites while everyone's arguing about which paladin is responsible for which buff this time |
| 06:04.21 | Amarande | and it's probably got the best battle system of any FF |
| 06:04.32 | ZorbaTHut | eat while everyone bids up Rune Edge |
| 06:04.34 | Amarande | lots of people laughed at the "Dress Sphere" thing |
| 06:04.53 | Amarande | but otoh, what Dress Sphere -really- did was bring back the Job system, which had been AWOL since FF5 |
| 06:05.10 | ZorbaTHut | someday I gotta play FFX |
| 06:05.13 | ZorbaTHut | er, FFX-2 |
| 06:05.13 | Amarande | and was a really good type of class system |
| 06:05.25 | Amarande | it's also the highest evolution of the ATB battle system |
| 06:05.32 | Amarande | probably as far as Square will take ATB, I imagine |
| 06:05.37 | ZorbaTHut | I'm kind of interested in seeing where they go with FFXIV, honestly. FFXI had some neat features but some real problems, and I'm hoping they fix the problems and leave the features |
| 06:05.38 | Arrowmaster | someday i gota play an FF newer than FF8 |
| 06:05.49 | Amarande | they moved away from it for FF12 (which I really hated the battle system of ... it felt like trying to play a solo MMORPG) |
| 06:06.03 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, eh, honestly there haven't been many that have been all that exciting |
| 06:06.06 | Amarande | and since if I understand right, the patent on Active Time Battle expires in 2012, Square might want to move to something more proprietary in the next few years |
| 06:06.20 | ZorbaTHut | FF12 is sort of neat just in writing little programs for your teammembers |
| 06:06.23 | Corrodias | the naming system is stupid. world of warcraft wasn't named warcraft 4, and there was a good reason. |
| 06:06.24 | ZorbaTHut | but yes it's basically a singleplayer MMORPG |
| 06:06.40 | Amarande | Zorba: a very grindy one too |
| 06:06.46 | Amarande | I remember wooting when I got a 999 chain at one point |
| 06:06.51 | Amarande | and then I realize that 999 license points barely buys shit |
| 06:06.56 | ZorbaTHut | with some hilariously bad design decisions - like, some of the biggest spells you can only have one cast of starting at a time |
| 06:07.06 | ZorbaTHut | and that includes enemy spells |
| 06:07.10 | Dagmar | Wait, you have to actually CODE your players behaviours in FF12? |
| 06:07.22 | Arrowmaster | i put knights of the round on a magic counter in FF7 |
| 06:07.25 | Arrowmaster | i broke the game |
| 06:07.29 | Amarande | Dagmar: you don't strictly *have* to, but it makes things a lot easier |
| 06:07.36 | ZorbaTHut | so you'll sit there watching them cast Holy Shit Enormous Explosion and every single one of your characters will be standing there waiting to cast Get A Lot Of Health Back |
| 06:07.42 | ZorbaTHut | but they can't, because there's a big spell happening! :D |
| 06:07.43 | Dagmar | I wondered when things would reach that point |
| 06:07.46 | Dagmar | I might try it |
| 06:07.56 | Amarande | Dagmar: in particular, the battle system in FF12 really doesn't lend itself conveniently to constant switching of control between characters |
| 06:08.00 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, the concept is neat, and if you're interested in game design I recommend giving it a shot |
| 06:08.04 | Dagmar | It hasn't in awhile |
| 06:08.11 | ZorbaTHut | I'm not convinced it works in FF12, but largely because of issues in FF12, not because of issues in the concept |
| 06:08.13 | Amarande | so even if you control one character, it tends to be much, much easier to at least code Gambits for the other two |
| 06:08.20 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Mainly I'm interested in finer-grained control over what the loons do |
| 06:08.37 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, it handles that rather nicely |
| 06:08.48 | Amarande | and if you code Gambits for everyone, you only have to worry about walking around and taking "emergency" type measures and you can let the party members handle the busywork of grinding for you |
| 06:08.51 | ZorbaTHut | you can easily rig things up like "heal people who are nearly dead". |
| 06:09.25 | ZorbaTHut | or even more complicated stuff, like "buff dudes, debuff the monster, cleanse debuffs on us, heal heal heal" |
| 06:09.47 | ZorbaTHut | the leveling system is awful though. |
| 06:09.57 | Amarande | yeah |
| 06:10.05 | Amarande | EXP is fine but they don't give anywhere near enough LP |
| 06:10.14 | ZorbaTHut | it's not that they don't give enough |
| 06:10.23 | ZorbaTHut | it's that 2/3 of the way through the game, everyone has every ability for the role you chose for them |
| 06:10.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 06:10.31 | ZorbaTHut | and then you just make all the characters identical by buying everything. |
| 06:10.37 | ZorbaTHut | by the end of the game, everyone's got everything. |
| 06:10.40 | Dagmar | That's pretty much what I wanna do |
| 06:10.45 | Amarande | I take forever to even start developing the characters into roles |
| 06:10.45 | Dagmar | I could only take things so far in the last version |
| 06:10.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c222083.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:10.53 | Amarande | because the first thing I tend to go for is as many of the Augments as I can |
| 06:10.55 | Dagmar | No. |
| 06:10.58 | Dagmar | No roles. |
| 06:11.06 | Dagmar | I don't want any more jabbering Yunas in those games ever |
| 06:11.09 | Amarande | which is why I'm doing really really well still with virtually starter grade gear |
| 06:11.47 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, so you'd rather have every character be effectively identical in combat? everyone's a melee-capable healer/caster? :P |
| 06:11.53 | Amarande | I think the last thing I fought was Garuda |
| 06:12.03 | Dagmar | Frankly, I'd be quite fine if when you walked outside, the main NPC simply says "Hmm... Looks like those people over to the south might have some nice stuff for the takin'" and everyone else says "Yep." and we head out. |
| 06:12.04 | Amarande | and I was like afterwards "wait you mean I was supposed to use this item to weaken it" heh |
| 06:12.16 | Amarande | I pretty much just spammed Thunder at it and that was that, maybe had to heal once or twice |
| 06:12.27 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: No actually I wanted them playing off each other's strengths more |
| 06:12.31 | Amarande | of course, I was like mid-20s with most of the augments at that point |
| 06:12.39 | ZorbaTHut | ah, alright :) |
| 06:13.03 | Dagmar | I mean, a sackfull of heavily equipped warmages isn't bad, but it's not as interesting to watch, and typically games give you more overall bar control if you specialize |
| 06:13.32 | Amarande | then I went on a break from FF12 though |
| 06:13.45 | Amarande | because I realized my next boss was Demon Wall and didn't feel like doing yet another LP grind so I can use status resist gear |
| 06:14.05 | Amarande | Dagmar: several FFs discourage specialization though pretty much |
| 06:14.20 | Amarande | FF2 and 12 particularly encourage the warmage archetype |
| 06:14.56 | ZorbaTHut | wow, I just got an amazing questhelper comment |
| 06:14.56 | Arrowmaster | FF7 discourages using the best healer as a healer |
| 06:15.01 | ZorbaTHut | I'm a noob. I get this one screen that keeps popping up and then i just close it when i start a quest. So maybe i'm doing something wrong. And btw if i can get lost with a garmin, can you imagine me getting lost with your questhelper, it's just one thing i'm useless with directions. |
| 06:15.01 | ZorbaTHut | But other than that maybe you guys can make the levels higher for the players to make it more interesting, to be stuck on 80, it's getting boring for some of them and then they don't wanna play anymore. |
| 06:15.11 | Amarande | and FF7, well, characters' warrior capability develops consistently as you upgrade their weapons, and meanwhile you're generally encouraged to keep a nice mix of materia on each |
| 06:15.47 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: hehehehe |
| 06:15.52 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: that sounds like a parody. |
| 06:15.59 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: that was a joke btw |
| 06:16.00 | Thunder_Child | ~lart Amarande |
| 06:16.00 | purl | teaches Amarande the basics, including how to RTM |
| 06:16.04 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, it might be, but I suspect it's real |
| 06:16.24 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: that's too perfectly noobish to be real. |
| 06:16.39 | Arrowmaster | oh its real |
| 06:16.44 | Arrowmaster | people really are that stupid |
| 06:16.54 | Amarande | Arrow: as a general rule, in games like that that let you learn any spell on any character, I tend to make it so everyone can heal |
| 06:17.08 | Amarande | FF2 on PSP, too, I made sure everyone learned the Cure Tome |
| 06:17.16 | Amarande | and they'll learn Life too, once I have the gil |
| 06:17.51 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ZorbaTHut: did he just ask you to make the quest levels higher? o_0 |
| 06:17.57 | Amarande | Zorba: by "this one screen" they mean the quest text screen? :) |
| 06:17.59 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, I'm pretty sure he did. |
| 06:18.06 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ZorbaTHut: thats awesome. |
| 06:18.12 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, it might be. It also might be a crash screen telling him that there's a bug. |
| 06:18.24 | ZorbaTHut | It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he hasn't updated since before 3.2. |
| 06:18.25 | Amarande | Zorba: Lemme guess, this is the same sort of noob who asks where to find the iron chain in the death knight starting area. :P |
| 06:18.31 | NightHawkTheSan1 | I want to see a commit to QH saying "arbitrarily adding 1-6 to displayed quest levels" :P |
| 06:18.39 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, man, who the hell knows :) |
| 06:18.52 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, I've kind of wanted to write a UI mod that makes every number larger |
| 06:18.57 | ZorbaTHut | every monster and quest is 100 levels higher |
| 06:19.00 | Amarande | That's probably the single most annoying question in the DK starting area |
| 06:19.06 | ZorbaTHut | all hit points, damage, and healing is increased by a factor of 1000 |
| 06:19.10 | ZorbaTHut | *look how awesome your character is now* |
| 06:19.13 | NightHawkTheSan1 | nicec |
| 06:19.25 | Amarande | it's right there IN the quest text where the iron chain is to be found |
| 06:19.27 | Amarande | and people still ask |
| 06:19.40 | Jerub | Is it possible to know what quests you've done and not done? |
| 06:19.47 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 06:19.48 | NightHawkTheSan1 | no |
| 06:19.50 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, in fairness, I think it says something like "the blacksmith", not "the building to the northwest" |
| 06:19.56 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, write 'em down as you do 'em. besides that, no |
| 06:20.02 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: c'est la vie. |
| 06:20.05 | Amarande | Jerub: only if you have an addon like QG and use it from the very start of your character's career |
| 06:20.27 | Jerub | QH perhaps? |
| 06:20.38 | ZorbaTHut | no, QG. QH doesn't currently record that stuff |
| 06:20.41 | ZorbaTHut | (though it probably should) |
| 06:20.44 | Jerub | oh, what's QG? |
| 06:20.50 | ZorbaTHut | QuestGuru, I suspect |
| 06:20.54 | Jerub | k |
| 06:21.07 | Seerah | ZorbaTHut: but all blacksmith buildings (in human areas, at least) look the same |
| 06:21.22 | Seerah | or you can just see the giant forge from 10 miles away |
| 06:21.30 | Jerub | when I did H CoS was basically the first time i've seen a non-ruined human town |
| 06:21.32 | ZorbaTHut | seerah, doesn't help you find it if you're having trouble seeing it. I think I had trouble my first time :P |
| 06:21.36 | Arrowmaster | or you can look for sparklies |
| 06:21.48 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, the chain's inside a building, if you can see the sparklies you've already found the chain |
| 06:22.21 | Seerah | don't you have to go to the blacksmith building for the earlier eye quest? to get info? |
| 06:22.33 | Amarande | the sad thing is that's one of those quests that's particularly good with the description of where to go, and people still ask. |
| 06:22.50 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, but I know I had trouble navigating around. I'm good with landmarks and that area is kind of low on usable landmarks |
| 06:22.56 | Amarande | unfortunately, before we complain about people not reading the quest text, we do kinda have to blame Blizzard for sucky quest text in a large number of cases. |
| 06:23.08 | Seerah | helped that they added the big red arrows over the buildings for that eye quest ;) |
| 06:23.11 | Arrowmaster | you mean all of pre wrath? |
| 06:23.16 | ZorbaTHut | I'd have to call that one one of the less-good quests, just because it relies on you knowing where the blacksmith is |
| 06:23.17 | Amarande | Arrow: even in wrath |
| 06:23.20 | Jerub | if the quest text had the salient points highlighted, I'd read every single one. |
| 06:23.21 | ZorbaTHut | but yes, they've certainly gotten better overall |
| 06:23.31 | Jerub | but at the moemnet I know 90% of it is useless prose, so I throw out the baby |
| 06:23.33 | Arrowmaster | its only since wrath that they basically added the exact location of every quest item to the quest text |
| 06:23.33 | Amarande | there's quite a number of quests where I'd keep flying around and around and eventually have to alt-tab out to wowhead to check coordinates |
| 06:23.40 | NightHawkTheSan1 | .. I never thought quest text was particularly problematic for most quests. |
| 06:23.58 | Jerub | I hate how the quest texts are all the same length, regardless of the complexity of the quest. |
| 06:23.59 | NightHawkTheSan1 | at least, I never had issues figuring most of them out. |
| 06:24.09 | Amarande | Night: generally the issue is when the description of where to go describes generically an area that turns out to be rather large |
| 06:24.10 | Jerub | simple quests should have short prose. complicated ones longer prose. I'd read them all then too. |
| 06:24.22 | Amarande | especially if it's also mountainous or the like, and/or the object you are looking for is rather small |
| 06:24.41 | Jerub | before I got QH, I'd use thott, because i was questing in the barrens and had NO idea where these mobs would spawn. |
| 06:24.53 | Arrowmaster | yeah barrens was kinda bad |
| 06:24.58 | Amarande | It gets worse later on, because on flying mounts if you fly too high up (such as to stay clear of mountains in places like icecrown or stormpeaks) sometimes you're too high up for the quest destination to register as near enough for the yellow ? to appear |
| 06:25.19 | Amarande | I know I ended up having to check wowhead to figure out exactly where that soldier in icecrown that's dying of plague was |
| 06:25.32 | Amarande | I must have flown by him about ten times missing him |
| 06:25.41 | ZorbaTHut | Blizzard still suffers from a lot of the classic "guess what I'm thinking" GM mistake |
| 06:25.50 | Fisker | ZorbaTHutmen |
| 06:25.56 | ZorbaTHut | "it's fun to make you run around in circles! Fun for me, I mean." |
| 06:26.11 | Fisker | explain to me |
| 06:26.26 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ZorbaTHut: partially, i think. I think it's also a bit of the idea of making you actually have to do a little work/looking instead of just drawing a big arrow and bulls-eye |
| 06:26.36 | Amarande | and that soldier in icecrown is a good example of insufficiently specific quest instructions |
| 06:26.43 | NightHawkTheSan1 | which i'm not arguing is strictly better or worse |
| 06:26.45 | Amarande | "the northeast part of icecrown" ooooookay, this is a rather large area |
| 06:26.52 | Amarande | "silent vigil" okay, this is *still* not too tiny an area |
| 06:26.52 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, I think eventually they'll realize that it's better to make the work *at the quest point*, not looking for things |
| 06:26.59 | ZorbaTHut | nobody has ever, in the history of video games, enjoyed a pixel hunt |
| 06:26.59 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: thats one of the great things about morrowind, when you had a quest to go someplace you could ask most npcs for directions |
| 06:27.23 | Amarande | plus it's mountainy, and if you stay high enough in the mountains to not keep bumping into them |
| 06:27.24 | ZorbaTHut | if an object's location is meant to be a mystery, make a quest chain involving you uncovering the mystery. |
| 06:27.37 | ZorbaTHut | if it's not, point them at the object. |
| 06:27.40 | Amarande | you end up being too high up for Bradenbrad's yellow ? to appear on the minimap. |
| 06:27.42 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ZorbaTHut: Eh, I think there's some value in "looking", but I'll gladly admit if it's a needle-in-a-haystack kind of thing, its absurd |
| 06:27.57 | Amarande | also at that height it's really hard to see a single human sized object |
| 06:28.42 | Amarande | the phasing also doesn't help matters at times |
| 06:28.52 | NightHawkTheSan1 | but I have trouble really liking quests so absurdly simple that you just stare at a minimap blip, or what-have-you and get the quest done. |
| 06:29.03 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, I agree that those quests are bad |
| 06:29.11 | ZorbaTHut | I just think that "guess where the monster is" is even worse :) |
| 06:29.19 | Amarande | e.g., that quest, again in icecrown, where you're sent to the top of the pillar in the northern part to meet up with the NPCs for the horde airstrike quest |
| 06:29.23 | NightHawkTheSan1 | yeah, there's a balance somewhere between the two. :) |
| 06:29.30 | Amarande | the problem there is, if you do not actually LAND on top of the pillar |
| 06:29.32 | ZorbaTHut | I don't think there is a balance between the two, actually |
| 06:29.37 | ZorbaTHut | I think they're both examples of bad quests |
| 06:29.39 | Amarande | you don't even see the ? mark because that area is phased, and doesn't phase in until you land |
| 06:29.52 | Amarande | so you keep flying round and round looking for the yellow ? and never see it |
| 06:29.54 | ZorbaTHut | and that quests have to be more interesting - a separate, third option - rather than trying to toe the line between "boring" and "annoying". |
| 06:30.09 | Amarande | Zorba: urgh, like Ursius on any class but a hunter? :) |
| 06:30.10 | Arrowmaster | "guess where the monster is" is the worst, because then they created the game they were probably expecting people to just pickup the quests go out killing or doing other quests and randomly run into the mob |
| 06:30.17 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ZorbaTHut: well, what I mean is it's not black/white between those extremes. There's shades of gray where 'looking' is not "guess where something is" and also not "it's here. just go there and click." |
| 06:30.18 | Arrowmaster | yet people dont play that way anymore |
| 06:30.48 | ZorbaTHut | I kinda like when they do it in the opposite direction |
| 06:30.49 | Jerub | imho, if blizzard name a place in a quest, it should be on the dratted map. |
| 06:30.55 | ZorbaTHut | kill a monster, get an item, get a quest from the item |
| 06:31.02 | ZorbaTHut | "oh good job you killed the Whatever, have some money" |
| 06:31.06 | Amarande | Arrow: depends, Jame's leveling guides used a lot of those sort of quests |
| 06:31.18 | Jerub | I don't want to have to remember that the place they've named is a zone that i've been through before but didn't remember its exact name and location |
| 06:31.24 | Amarande | of course, Jame's leveling guides were like, insanely optimized for max xp/hour and thus designed to keep you on as many quests as possible at a time |
| 06:31.27 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Jerub: i'd agree with that, at least marking a fairly close location on your map would be awesome. if it's not a gps-level accuracy |
| 06:31.28 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: exactly, you need a guide to do them |
| 06:31.45 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSan1: or hell, an indicator that you're in the right place once you get there. |
| 06:31.56 | Seerah | oooh - cool stuff :) http://vimeo.com/5732745 |
| 06:32.03 | Jerub | and FREAKING HELL BLIZZARD THE Z AXIS EXISTS |
| 06:32.09 | Arrowmaster | people want to go 'ok im going to do this quest now' and go do it, not hold onto it until they run into the target |
| 06:32.12 | Amarande | other bad quest design examples: |
| 06:32.19 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ZorbaTHut: Yeah, i DO like the quest-item-drop stuff. I thought it was pretty awesome with that group of 4-5 nameds out in netherstorm |
| 06:32.22 | Jerub | I hate being on the wrong level/underground/aboveground/etc |
| 06:32.30 | ZorbaTHut | I really do feel like about half of blizzard's current API choices are specifically designed to keep UI mods from making boring parts of the game easier |
| 06:32.36 | Amarande | Quest A: "go through this area and kill X number of mobs" |
| 06:32.37 | Jerub | like the spirit caverns under TB |
| 06:32.49 | ZorbaTHut | they spend way too much time enforcing their bad game designs, and not nearly enough coming up with new interesting game designs |
| 06:32.57 | Amarande | Quest B, only gettable AFTER doing quest A: "go to (this same area) and obtain X number of (this quest item) which drops from (same mobs) ONLY NOW THAT YOU HAVE THIS QUEST" |
| 06:33.06 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ZorbaTHut: probably true |
| 06:33.13 | ZorbaTHut | Questhelper just flat-out shouldn't need to exist, but I strongly suspect they'd ban it if they thought they could get away with it. |
| 06:33.44 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: thats mostly a problem with the old world, they kinda fixed that with having quest hubs in tbc |
| 06:33.48 | ZorbaTHut | and the "objective location" API they were planning to put into 3.2 (what happened with that, blizzard? :P) was pretty specifically designed to be as useless as possible to UI mods |
| 06:34.11 | Amarande | oh, then there's all those various quests in northrend involving fetching samples of saronite |
| 06:34.23 | Amarande | only, you always have to go out and get the special quest samples of saronite from that specific area |
| 06:34.40 | Arrowmaster | i dont really remember those |
| 06:34.44 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, which is doubly amusing when you're showing up in full saronite platemail |
| 06:34.45 | Amarande | when 1) WE KNOW YOUR "MYSTERY ROCK" IS BLOODY SARONITE ALREADY OK? and 2) I already HAVE about 43 stacks of saronite ore IN MY PACK |
| 06:34.56 | Amarande | why can't I give you THOSE :P |
| 06:35.02 | ZorbaTHut | they're like, "there is a mystery metal! Go find some" and you're like "I am COVERED IN IT" |
| 06:35.25 | ZorbaTHut | "LOOK, MY SWORD IS MADE OUT OF SARONITE" |
| 06:35.38 | Amarande | and 2) becomes ever increasingly true for me |
| 06:35.43 | Jerub | Amarande: case in point there is the harpy quests in NW barrens. |
| 06:35.43 | Amarande | seeing as I'm a compulsive miner |
| 06:35.46 | Jerub | A) Go kill smallest harpies, B) Go kill next smallest harpies C) go kill medium harpies D) kill badass harpies |
| 06:35.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125-239-21-122.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 06:35.57 | Amarande | and even if I'm busy questing will proceed to make time to land and grab each mining node |
| 06:35.57 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 06:36.02 | Arrowmaster | FUCKING WORST QUESTS EVER |
| 06:36.05 | Arrowmaster | fuck those harpies |
| 06:36.11 | Amarande | Arrow: yeah, those ones were really bad |
| 06:36.16 | Amarande | you know what the worst thing with those quests was? |
| 06:36.20 | Amarande | you'd pick up the first one |
| 06:36.25 | Amarande | and then end up abandoning it later anyway |
| 06:36.26 | Arrowmaster | fucking 15-20 minute run back and forth isnt it? |
| 06:36.36 | Amarande | because by the time you fucking get around to doing it when you're doing any reasonable quest circuit pattern |
| 06:36.38 | NightHawkTheSan1 | tomorrow's licd is awesome |
| 06:36.38 | Amarande | it's already gone gray |
| 06:36.47 | Amarande | hell |
| 06:36.55 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Arrowmaster: not quite, but easily 5ish |
| 06:36.56 | Amarande | I think Hosho's guide to the Barrens has you pick up that quest and then you never do it |
| 06:37.02 | Amarande | and then you realize it's gray already by the end |
| 06:37.25 | Arrowmaster | NightHawkTheSan1: depending on your level and how much you want to avoid random encounters or not it takes 10 i guess |
| 06:37.42 | NightHawkTheSan1 | true |
| 06:37.46 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: I ended up doing those harpy quests as a group |
| 06:38.20 | Arrowmaster | what with somebody with a tundra mamoth? |
| 06:38.38 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: LOL! |
| 06:38.44 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: no, just as a level 18 group or something |
| 06:39.02 | Jerub | but yeah, i hate those freaking harpies so hard |
| 06:39.41 | NightHawkTheSan1 | i was sad when they nerfed the harpy quest in thousand needles. :( |
| 06:40.15 | Arrowmaster | i followed my friend around when he was in the barrens with his warrior while i was on my 60 lock, it took him forever to figure out why he kept going from full hp to half hp |
| 06:50.39 | WobWork | Arrowmaster: blood pact? =) |
| 06:50.49 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 06:50.56 | Arrowmaster | he was more than doubling his hp |
| 06:51.18 | Arrowmaster | and he didnt have numeric hp display |
| 06:51.27 | Jerub | tee hee |
| 06:51.41 | Jerub | i love it when i'm running through the barrens and i have thorns and motw on hotkeys |
| 06:51.50 | Jerub | all these little level 15s getting buffs from nowhwere |
| 06:52.56 | *** join/#wowuidev JerekDain (n=JerekDai@71-82-127-149.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 07:02.36 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 07:06.56 | Amarande | Goodbye, EOTS. We knew you well. :( |
| 07:07.02 | Amarande | "A new Battleground will not launch until the maximum number of players on each side are in the queue (i.e. 40 players per side for Alterac Valley)." -- 3.2.2 PTR patch notes |
| 07:07.26 | Jerub | Amarande: hm? |
| 07:07.50 | Jerub | oh, you're referring to how it's impossible to fill a EOTS? |
| 07:07.52 | Amarande | Jerub: apparently, people are finding it takes long enough to get into EOTS as it is, without battlegrounds being REQUIRED to have max players to start as this implies |
| 07:08.04 | Amarande | What is WORSE, 3.2.2 will ALSO limit players to 2 battleground queues at a time, rather than the current 3 |
| 07:08.25 | Jerub | that might make things better or worse. |
| 07:08.27 | Amarande | so far fewer people who really want to do BGs will be willing to use a queue slot for an achingly long EOTS queue |
| 07:08.46 | Amarande | after all, if it's currently impossible to fully fill an EOTS |
| 07:08.53 | Amarande | and they're going to require all battlegrounds start full |
| 07:08.56 | Jerub | I hate how it's possible to get into a BG that will quit in 3 minutes because people won't hit accept |
| 07:09.29 | Amarande | anyone who goes in a queue for it anyway is going to end up waiting like, about as long as horde had to for AV on Stormstrike back in the 2.3 days |
| 07:09.32 | Amarande | or was it 2.2 |
| 07:09.34 | Amarande | around then, anyway |
| 07:09.55 | Amarande | around 2.2 or 2.3 Horde on Stormstrike had to wait like 3+ hours to get into AV at all because Alliance were babies and refused to play |
| 07:10.07 | Amarande | (Guess which faction and battleground Amarande plays on!) |
| 07:10.56 | Amarande | There was talk that Alliance was actively boycotting, I don't know if that was actually true |
| 07:11.33 | Amarande | but what we did know was that Stormstrike was one of the two or so battlegroups where Horde actually won AV consistently, and *both* such battlegroups if I remember quickly developed severe queue hell for Horde because Alliance pretty much quit playing AV |
| 07:11.54 | jnwhiteh | well, why bother playing a BG that doesnt' guarantee good honor gain |
| 07:11.59 | jnwhiteh | that's the only reason we do it =) |
| 07:11.59 | Amarande | which, sadly, was only cured by making concessions in AV design for 2.4 to actively favor Alliance |
| 07:12.20 | Amarande | which then pissed the hell off of the other seven battlegroups where Horde was about even or worse in AV and now was feeling it was practically impossible for them to catch a break at all |
| 07:13.18 | ZorbaTHut | the real problem with BGs is that people play BGs for, like, four different and largely-incompatible reasons |
| 07:13.18 | Amarande | I always thought AV was good for honor |
| 07:13.25 | Amarande | because it was 40-man and had a lot of skirmishes leading to plenty of HKs |
| 07:13.29 | ZorbaTHut | and Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, has seen fit to jam them all together into one battleground so they can yell at each other for playing wrong |
| 07:13.36 | Amarande | compare to, say, WSG with its tendency to degenerate into double turtles |
| 07:14.21 | Amarande | or AB which always seemed to me far too spread out |
| 07:14.54 | Amarande | of course, AV is even larger, but battles in AV tend to concentrate around one or two points at a time and there's 80 people in the BG |
| 07:15.11 | Jerub | http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20090916 |
| 07:15.40 | Amarande | I always liked EOTS, but I'm glad I got several achievements there the last time I went |
| 07:15.50 | Amarande | because if 3.2.2 is any indication, it's going to get as dead as Jade Quarry in GW |
| 07:20.44 | WobWork | Jerub: amusing, but nothing that hasn't already been done a gadjillion times and better by other webcomics =P |
| 07:21.09 | Amarande | hmm, also rumor looks like they're going to solve the gear issue in Cataclysm by pulling a BC again |
| 07:21.19 | WobWork | Amarande: Clown Suits? |
| 07:21.41 | ZorbaTHut | wob, "welcome to Cataclysm, you can turn in your old raid gear for brand-new greens right here" |
| 07:21.48 | Amarande | Wob: "emphasize Stamina hugely on new gear and make sure shit hits hard enough that you need the stam enough to throw away your old gear" |
| 07:22.13 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, so, 50k unbuffed on tanks? |
| 07:22.21 | Amarande | zorba: heh, wouldn't be surprised |
| 07:22.36 | Amarande | "Well, blizz said that Cataclysm armor (especially for tanks) is going to contain a lot more stam and a lot less everything else. Does that mean the new bosses are going to his a LOT harder and that they won't be doable in 80 gear, which apparently is going to lack the needed health to survive even one shot?" -- boards |
| 07:22.41 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: pff i kept my lvl 60 epics until 70 |
| 07:23.07 | Arrowmaster | but then again i was one of the best if not the best geared locks on the server at 60 |
| 07:23.22 | Amarande | yeah, definitely sounds like the way they're going to clear this whole epic mess off the board is by simply making things hit so hard that you have to drop all your other awesome simply in order to pick up extra stamina to survive |
| 07:23.22 | ZorbaTHut | "harder" is a relative thing anyway, I'd be quite happy if they retuned bosses so that it was no longer a series of oops-almost-died blows |
| 07:23.42 | Amarande | which seemed to be the case in BC also - especially for tanks, too! |
| 07:23.54 | Amarande | I still remember when I had a prot pally on Quel'dorei, I did most of the old world content including scholo and strat |
| 07:24.02 | Arrowmaster | BC did make avoidance a bit too important |
| 07:24.04 | Amarande | was geared up in nice blues and such |
| 07:24.08 | Jerub | yeah, i'd me more happier if it were a race to keep the tanks health up, with the boss winning/losing against my hots, than the 400ms gap between my heal hittng and healing the tank to full and the boss hitting with another crit and killing them |
| 07:24.28 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, if your tank is being crit, he's doing it wrong ;) besides that, though, agreed |
| 07:24.30 | Amarande | and then, was essentially forced in order to tank even Ramparts reliably to start shedding tons of those blues in favor of stamina-laden greens from the AH |
| 07:24.41 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: crit, hit by a special attack, whatever. |
| 07:24.56 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: that was only because they changed the stam forumula for gear |
| 07:24.59 | Amarande | because while all those blues gave me probably good enough -overall- stats, I never seemed to have enough HP. |
| 07:25.17 | Jerub | as a drood healer I can snap a tank to full health with a single spell |
| 07:25.23 | Amarande | That board quote suggests that Blizzard will once again solve the problem of gear having got out of control by forcing HP to the forefront again |
| 07:25.23 | Jerub | but it takes 3.5 seconds to cast. |
| 07:26.08 | Amarande | And this, is why I play DPS, and avoid PvP. |
| 07:26.13 | ZorbaTHut | honestly, I think they could just pull a similar BC thing and just hand out brand-new high-end greens |
| 07:26.19 | Amarande | I play games like WoW because I like to kill mobs. |
| 07:26.35 | ZorbaTHut | step into Cataclysm entry zone, a goblin hands you a green suit of armor roughly equivalent to ilvl250 gear today |
| 07:26.38 | Amarande | Not so I can load up like a pansy on giant hit point pools and survival gear. |
| 07:26.44 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: tee hee |
| 07:26.57 | ZorbaTHut | "Item level is money, friend!" |
| 07:26.59 | Jerub | yeah, hitting BC after getting some serious level 60 items was like, "omg, this is AWESOME" |
| 07:27.03 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: they arent going to change the stam calc again though, they are removing a shit ton of stats from the game and adding them to existing stats |
| 07:27.14 | Jerub | that was a big problem with 1-60: quest rewards were only their vendor sale value, nothing else. |
| 07:27.16 | Amarande | Although ... I actually did like tanking when I had a prot pally |
| 07:27.22 | Arrowmaster | which means they have to reitemize all gear not just new gear |
| 07:27.37 | Jerub | (except for that belt quest reward that was Use: to restore health, that was an excellent quest reward) |
| 07:28.22 | Fisker | i want 3.2.2 |
| 07:28.24 | Fisker | gc promised |
| 07:28.32 | Grum | Amarande: could you suggest another solution than getting more hp each expansion? |
| 07:28.47 | Grum | more hp gives them more tools, dont forget that healers also want to see their numbers go up |
| 07:29.06 | Amarande | Grum: I suppose we could make 80 gear still rule the roost if you have it, until some progression point at 85 |
| 07:29.16 | Arrowmaster | it probably will |
| 07:29.21 | Amarande | which would have the beneficial side effect of not making the old content ghost townish |
| 07:29.29 | Grum | for guilds like ensidia it will |
| 07:29.32 | Amarande | because there is entirely too much awesome in Azeroth that no one bothers with |
| 07:29.46 | Fisker | stupid cat |
| 07:29.57 | Grum | ah cmon each expansion makes the old content completely useless |
| 07:30.01 | Fisker | that mouse isn't a real mouse it's a computer mouse! |
| 07:30.08 | Grum | just look at how much time you spend in outland |
| 07:30.19 | Grum | there is no real way to make that different though |
| 07:30.35 | Amarande | actually, outland can be minimized almost to the vanishing point now |
| 07:30.40 | Arrowmaster | high end gear from a previous expansion has carried people to the max level in the new expansion twice now, its going to do it a 3rd time |
| 07:31.01 | Amarande | if you quest WPL/EPL/Winterspring/Silithus, you can easily start Outland at 62-64 or so |
| 07:31.15 | Amarande | and then you can go on to northrend at 68 |
| 07:31.21 | Amarande | not that I recommend it, but you can |
| 07:31.26 | Grum | erm you can |
| 07:31.38 | Arrowmaster | you can also goto outlands at 57 |
| 07:31.38 | Grum | but leveling in WPL etc gives very little xp compared to outland |
| 07:31.41 | Arrowmaster | i did it once |
| 07:31.43 | Arrowmaster | very very bad |
| 07:31.49 | Amarande | I'm a firm adherent to that one should be level 60+ for Outland and 70+ for Northrend |
| 07:31.51 | Grum | yes 58 is sortof minimal there |
| 07:31.59 | Arrowmaster | hellboars killed my rogue |
| 07:32.06 | Grum | yeah ehhe |
| 07:32.12 | Arrowmaster | my combat rogue |
| 07:32.12 | Grum | those are quite annoying at lowlvl :) |
| 07:32.13 | Amarande | kobolds ate your baby! |
| 07:32.34 | Grum | though being lvl60 or 64 makes little or no difference |
| 07:32.44 | Grum | mostly because you dont have any questgear with the extra stamina |
| 07:32.44 | Arrowmaster | i came back though with a HWL sword, mutilate, and cheat death and got my revenge |
| 07:33.25 | Amarande | apparently blues are saying that one thing they want to do with Cat is give classes roughly similar health across the board |
| 07:33.30 | Grum | i once grinded lvl62-67 inside ramparts |
| 07:33.39 | Amarande | so mages would end up with near the same HP as tanks, and such |
| 07:33.50 | Grum | no, same stamina |
| 07:33.50 | Arrowmaster | wont happen |
| 07:33.52 | Grum | not same health |
| 07:34.03 | Grum | tanks get extra modifiers to make their stamina worth more hp |
| 07:34.19 | Amarande | Arrow: plate wearers still have more mitigation |
| 07:34.29 | Amarande | I imagine it would just give mages and priests more of a case of warlockitis |
| 07:34.38 | Amarande | yay for having a ton of hp and still being just as squishy as if you didn't :) |
| 07:34.48 | Grum | locks are not so squishy |
| 07:35.04 | Arrowmaster | they are when they dont have arena gear |
| 07:35.04 | Amarande | locks are a lot squishier than their stamina and HP pools suggest, though |
| 07:35.27 | Grum | i think they should just add some pvp specific talents to increase your armor from cloth by 300% and 150% from leather and 50% from mail orso |
| 07:35.40 | Amarande | "The idea is more to decrease the disparity in health pools between cloth and plate wearers. A distinction will still exist in the ability to mitigate damage taken." |
| 07:35.43 | Grum | just to get the scales a tad closer |
| 07:35.44 | Amarande | Good idea, actually. |
| 07:35.51 | Amarande | Should make it easier to design bosses with AoE magic attacks. |
| 07:36.01 | Amarande | As it is, if you want such attacks to be a threat to tank classes, you basically make them one shot the squishies |
| 07:36.03 | Grum | yes, they need more hp to make it more intresting |
| 07:36.21 | Grum | that is the only reason they double our xp each expansion :p |
| 07:36.25 | Grum | erm hp |
| 07:36.31 | Grum | and xp as well ;( |
| 07:36.38 | ZorbaTHut | actually, I think there's some truth to that |
| 07:36.54 | ZorbaTHut | they've been gradually converging the HP scale since Classic |
| 07:37.10 | Grum | did they? |
| 07:37.23 | Grum | i remember having something like 5.somethingk hp on my priest |
| 07:37.37 | *** part/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (i=tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 07:37.40 | Arrowmaster | i hit 8k on my warlock in classic |
| 07:37.42 | Grum | and 14 orso in tbc and 25 in wotlk |
| 07:37.43 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (i=tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 07:37.50 | Arrowmaster | which was a fucking lot for a warlock even |
| 07:38.03 | Arrowmaster | but i was also mega buffed |
| 07:38.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 07:38.16 | Arrowmaster | with zalandar i think and other stuff |
| 07:38.18 | Fisker | I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA I WILL FUCKING SHRED YOU TO PIECES |
| 07:38.32 | Fisker | my computer isn't a fucking mouse either |
| 07:38.35 | Grum | well according to what they are saying, i should be on plate level which would mean ~32k after buffs |
| 07:38.53 | Fisker | and it somehow triggered some kind of shortcircuit prevention |
| 07:38.54 | Grum | mages easily sit on 22k |
| 07:39.46 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@124.205.157.51) |
| 07:40.27 | Grum | i just wonder what will happen with stuff like shadowpriests, which get -15% dmg taken for being in a certain stance |
| 07:40.41 | Shirik | I wonder if my server just died |
| 07:41.14 | End | probably won't go away as long as shadow priests don't really have any escape mechanisms |
| 07:41.33 | End | fear and ..uh, I guess dispersion is helpful now |
| 07:41.40 | Grum | because if you look at the numbers, a spriest has to take ~36.5k dmg to get past a single PWS+25k hp pool |
| 07:42.01 | Grum | and yes we're still gimp in pvp :) |
| 07:42.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125.239.21.122) |
| 07:42.20 | Amarande | yay. more forum QQ that the first and foremost thing Blizzard looks at now when balancing class abilities is PvP, specifically arena. |
| 07:42.22 | End | similarly, I don't see soul link going away for warlocks |
| 07:42.32 | Amarande | (although, I'm not sure this is entirely not the case :|) |
| 07:42.51 | Grum | its quite fun, in arena targets always get picked the same way, elem sham > ret > dk > mage > priest > rogue > warrior > hunter >< |
| 07:43.00 | Arrowmaster | soul link has been nerfed to be almost nothing of what it used to be |
| 07:43.13 | Amarande | Grum: that's because hunters suck in arena these days |
| 07:43.14 | *** join/#wowuidev pb_ee1 (n=nospam@meilleu015869-2.clients.easynet.fr) |
| 07:43.17 | Grum | well it still mitigates 30% dmg right? |
| 07:43.21 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 07:43.21 | End | 20% |
| 07:43.25 | Grum | Amarande: uuh no, you *never* attack hunters |
| 07:43.27 | Grum | and i mean *NEVER* |
| 07:43.29 | Amarande | yet, strangely enough, Blizzard's reaction to the fact that hunters aren't doing well in arena |
| 07:43.31 | Amarande | is to ... nerf hunters |
| 07:43.32 | Amarande | heh |
| 07:43.36 | Arrowmaster | 20%? i thought it was 10% now |
| 07:43.39 | End | they nerfed soul link to lik 10% for a while |
| 07:43.44 | Grum | hunters are so severely OP in arena |
| 07:44.17 | End | but then they unnerfed it |
| 07:44.17 | Grum | you cant touch them for ~40 seconds orso |
| 07:44.17 | Amarande | PATCH NOTES: We have decided that Rock is unusually vulnerable to Paper. Therefore, we have reduced Rock's defensive capabilities from XXX to YYY ... |
| 07:44.17 | Arrowmaster | it was 10% at start of wrath |
| 07:44.17 | End | yup |
| 07:44.28 | Arrowmaster | it was originally 50% |
| 07:44.33 | End | yea |
| 07:44.34 | Arrowmaster | for all of classic |
| 07:44.36 | End | that was classic though |
| 07:44.38 | Grum | Amarande: the list i gave was the targets we always pick depending on what we get |
| 07:44.46 | Grum | oh druids are super easy to kill as well |
| 07:44.49 | Grum | they should be above dks :) |
| 07:44.56 | Fisker | http://i25.tinypic.com/28lxvuc.gif <-my cat after it had just crashed my computer |
| 07:45.08 | Grum | looks like your mother |
| 07:45.43 | End | hm wowwiki claims it was 15% at start of wotlk |
| 07:45.47 | End | although I thought it was 10% |
| 07:45.48 | Amarande | Grum: how about locks? |
| 07:45.51 | Grum | the hunter nerfs are justified tbh |
| 07:45.55 | Grum | Amarande: cc them |
| 07:45.59 | Grum | and then ignore :p |
| 07:46.19 | Amarande | heh, actually, you're probably right |
| 07:46.22 | Amarande | or maybe just plain ignore us |
| 07:46.26 | Grum | locks are really hard to kill unless you have 2 melee |
| 07:46.39 | Grum | or erm 2 physical dps |
| 07:46.39 | End | I was playing arena a little bit today for the first time in a while |
| 07:46.39 | Amarande | after all, if we use debuffs, either your priest will dispel them, or you'll just ignore them because resilience is so effective on dots |
| 07:46.46 | End | I was pretty much just getting ignored |
| 07:46.48 | Amarande | Grum: and if you do, they're sitting ducks, apparently |
| 07:47.02 | Grum | affliction locks are horrible though |
| 07:47.08 | Grum | fear, unstable affliction |
| 07:47.11 | Grum | and LOLOLOLOL |
| 07:47.19 | Amarande | I mean, what can you really do to save a squishy who's being hit at armor 0 every hit due to armor pen and has a pile of Red debuffs on them? |
| 07:47.27 | Amarande | that's pretty much a warlock under attack by 2+ melees |
| 07:47.37 | Grum | well, you cant kill a lock with casting |
| 07:47.43 | Grum | because of the .. damn .. whats the name |
| 07:47.55 | Grum | that resistance thing they get when you get em |
| 07:47.59 | End | nether protection |
| 07:48.04 | Grum | yeah |
| 07:48.12 | End | it's not resistance though :P |
| 07:48.16 | Amarande | and the real problem for the lock in such a case ("assist train" it's called) is that not only is there a good chance of the warlock dying outright |
| 07:48.16 | End | it's damage reduction |
| 07:48.21 | Grum | same difference, its annoying |
| 07:48.34 | Amarande | but if we *don't* die, our healer had to spend so much mana to heal through the bleeds that they're OOM and we're doomed for the rest of the fight |
| 07:48.35 | Grum | locks are quite OP tbh :) |
| 07:48.40 | Arrowmaster | pff ive 1v1'd locks with nether protection while i didnt have it and won before, and that was back when it was immunity |
| 07:48.40 | Grum | they can kite 2 melee around if they know their game |
| 07:48.58 | Amarande | how about a triple melee + priest + druid enemy team? |
| 07:49.04 | Amarande | how does warlock do there? |
| 07:49.09 | Grum | what kind of melee? :P |
| 07:49.18 | Amarande | rogue/warrior mix, mainly |
| 07:49.51 | Grum | i'd personally vote for spawning a succi and ccing the warrior and sheeping the priest |
| 07:50.07 | End | sheeping? |
| 07:50.10 | Grum | rogue you can outheal, warrior you cant :P |
| 07:50.39 | Amarande | yeah, most of the warlock QQ seems to have boiled down to one simple and probably true thing |
| 07:50.42 | Grum | End: you should being proper classes in your own team :) |
| 07:50.48 | Amarande | MS + Executioner was stupidly overpowered against cloth |
| 07:50.57 | Grum | MS is OP |
| 07:51.03 | Grum | for the fact you cannot dispel it |
| 07:51.08 | Grum | if you can dispel it, np |
| 07:51.18 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 07:51.20 | Amarande | Grum: it didn't really get out of hand till 2.3 and Zul'Aman with the Executioner enchant though |
| 07:51.24 | Amarande | then it went totally out of control |
| 07:51.29 | End | I guess I don't usually run with usual comps |
| 07:51.36 | End | although for 5s its not as set in stone |
| 07:51.37 | Grum | we've had in our 3v3s a warrior fully pve geared, decked in ARP with a druid+priest |
| 07:51.46 | Grum | you get 5.6k whirlwind hits |
| 07:51.56 | Amarande | because you combine MS's OP with the fact that Executioner and the other armor pen stuff ZA handed out like candy basically let warriors do way too many of their strikes against cloth as if the clothie had ZERO armor |
| 07:51.57 | Grum | gogo get away with your hamstringed ass |
| 07:52.16 | Amarande | and we also know that the armor formula means that the lower the armor, the more significant a given amount of armor penetration is in terms of extra damage |
| 07:52.27 | Grum | yeah |
| 07:52.34 | Grum | it should be the other way around |
| 07:52.41 | Grum | higher armor should be more attractive to use it against |
| 07:52.41 | Amarande | And thus warlocks basically ended up screwed |
| 07:52.47 | Grum | locks? |
| 07:52.48 | Grum | no way |
| 07:52.52 | Amarande | because back then they had no demonic portal |
| 07:52.53 | Grum | try priests/mages |
| 07:52.57 | Grum | oh yeah |
| 07:53.00 | Grum | now you can just portal :P |
| 07:53.00 | Amarande | so they didn't really have any significant means of escape |
| 07:53.09 | Grum | and stun the warrior |
| 07:53.11 | Amarande | also, the other thing is warlocks also don't have any real mitigation either |
| 07:53.24 | Amarande | the only thing they had (at the time at least) was Soul Link with their pet |
| 07:53.27 | Grum | al you say is about 10 times worse for a shadowpriest btw ;) |
| 07:53.56 | Amarande | don't tell me sac voidwalker, because if you sacced your voidwalker (and at the time it was a full sac) |
| 07:54.11 | Amarande | then you had no pet to get even SL's meager protection from once the bubble was gone |
| 07:54.25 | Amarande | and ... errr ... you're not going to have 10 seconds to cast a new one in an arena. |
| 07:54.36 | Grum | you have a talent to insta spawn one |
| 07:54.41 | Grum | 5m cooldown though |
| 07:54.53 | End | 3 minute now |
| 07:54.55 | Grum | aye |
| 07:54.55 | Amarande | yeah, basically warlocks were screwed in the mitigation department |
| 07:55.05 | Amarande | screwed in the escape department, too (they had PvP trinket and that was it at that point) |
| 07:55.05 | Grum | every clothy is |
| 07:55.18 | Amarande | Grum: not really, priests have PW:S and mages have various resources |
| 07:55.47 | Amarande | at least they weren't screwed quite as bad as locks were |
| 07:55.49 | Grum | mage: iceblock (x2 if frost and 30s cd); priest: dispersion (holy/disc ... LOLOL); lock: portal/stun |
| 07:55.55 | Amarande | basically in 2.3-2.4 |
| 07:55.58 | Grum | pws just gets dispelled :P |
| 07:56.17 | Amarande | locks had so little defense against warriors |
| 07:56.27 | Grum | warrior are kinda op still |
| 07:56.34 | Grum | warriors+hunters |
| 07:56.34 | Amarande | that a 3-melee team with a warrior in 5's |
| 07:56.39 | Grum | and FoK rogues |
| 07:56.43 | Grum | but i havent seen those for quite a while |
| 07:56.45 | Amarande | would just assist train the warlock literally to death making it virtually 5v4 right off the bat |
| 07:57.31 | Amarande | apparently, things in BC arena were already somewhat rocky for warlocks even before that, but like I said, the huge amount of armor penetration crap added with Zul'Aman just threw it completely over the edge |
| 07:57.56 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn_ (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 07:58.01 | End | I dunno, melee seemed kinda weak until ZA |
| 07:58.12 | Grum | you mean until arp? ;) |
| 07:58.18 | End | yes |
| 07:58.19 | Amarande | End: heh, that's one of the issues with wow, too |
| 07:58.30 | End | I remember early TBC, I ate warriors on my warlock |
| 07:58.40 | Amarande | I'm not sure Blizz invests the time ever to really do a full across-the-board rebalance, except maybe at expansion time |
| 07:58.46 | Arrowmaster | i remember early TBC |
| 07:58.51 | Arrowmaster | warriors were fucking broken |
| 07:58.52 | Amarande | they just kinda go through the skills and try to decide which ones are imba |
| 07:58.56 | End | rogues were only a problem because of cloak of shadows, but most rogues weren't very good at using it |
| 07:59.01 | Amarande | which leads to table-leg adjustments :) |
| 07:59.02 | Arrowmaster | then they nerfed them |
| 07:59.03 | Amarande | if you get what I mean |
| 07:59.18 | Amarande | End: heh, CoS was considered so OP a while ago that it was called "Cloak of Skill" |
| 07:59.23 | Amarande | as in you didn't need any skill, just CoS |
| 07:59.24 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (n=TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 07:59.33 | End | eh |
| 07:59.34 | Amarande | by "table leg adjustment" of course |
| 07:59.41 | End | there's a good time to use CoS, and bad times |
| 07:59.45 | Amarande | I mean how one might try to adjust the length of an off table leg by chopping off the extra. |
| 07:59.49 | Amarande | only you find you overbalanced. |
| 07:59.56 | Amarande | so you chop off part of another leg to try to get it right. |
| 07:59.59 | Arrowmaster | i was in a WSG at 70 where one warrior with a blacksmithing weapon was getting 5k crits on every clothy in there, 5k MS 5K cleave |
| 08:00.01 | Amarande | and eventually, you just have the tabletop :D |
| 08:00.23 | Grum | Arrowmaster: keep in mind that BG'd people usually dont wear pvp gear |
| 08:00.43 | End | I don't remember getting hit very hard by any warriors, but I remember doing arena, and the GODDAMN MACE STUN GODDAMMIT |
| 08:00.46 | End | :P |
| 08:00.51 | Grum | i am quite curious what the s7 gear will do for the total amount of mitigation through resilience |
| 08:01.04 | Amarande | anyway, the armor penetration got to the point that at first, locks just barely hung on with SL/SL spec |
| 08:01.04 | nevcairiel | End, i was so happy when they removed that |
| 08:01.06 | Grum | it appears you'll end up ~300 higher than before |
| 08:01.09 | End | nevcairiel: me too! |
| 08:01.11 | Amarande | and after that they just stopped being viable in 5's |
| 08:01.23 | Amarande | they only worked well in 2's and 3's where the team size wasn't enough to allow a triple melee assist train |
| 08:01.47 | Grum | oh yes. mace stun, *the* /roll winner ever =) |
| 08:01.49 | Amarande | heh, stuns are still kinda imba. |
| 08:01.56 | Grum | yes |
| 08:02.02 | Grum | stuns should be dispellable |
| 08:02.03 | Amarande | and by that I mean really imba |
| 08:02.08 | End | some are dispellable :P |
| 08:02.17 | Grum | yes, pally ones |
| 08:02.23 | Amarande | because any skill that makes the enemy helpless for long enough time to finish them off without them having ANY recourse |
| 08:02.24 | Grum | stuns should break after 1k dmg |
| 08:02.28 | Amarande | thus basically being an I.W.I.N. button |
| 08:02.32 | Amarande | is broken |
| 08:02.37 | Grum | and just postpone a cast instead of interrupting it |
| 08:02.42 | End | 1k damage sounds too low, but I get your point :P |
| 08:02.53 | Grum | well i think its ~1.5k to break a fear |
| 08:02.57 | Grum | or frostnova |
| 08:02.57 | Amarande | oh yeah, casting |
| 08:03.05 | Amarande | that was another reason warlocks were screwed in the late BC days |
| 08:03.07 | nevcairiel | interrupting the cast is fine, you're stunned afterall |
| 08:03.13 | Amarande | in the late BC days, pushback was still unlimited |
| 08:03.24 | nevcairiel | but its silly that a good rogue can just kill you in the stuns :P |
| 08:03.27 | Grum | nevcairiel: its not really fine, shamans can inteerupt you every 6 seconds |
| 08:03.41 | Amarande | which meant a good melee assist train, if they couldn't interrupt a fear or shadow bolt right away, could just keep whamming you until enough rage/energy is available for a pummel/shieldbash/kick |
| 08:03.46 | Grum | so with CoTongues on you you can *hopefully* get a cast out |
| 08:03.48 | Amarande | and then there goes basically your entire slate of capabilities on CD |
| 08:03.53 | Grum | if you dont have instants you are fucked :P |
| 08:04.04 | End | a -geared- rogue in pve gear can easily kill me within stun through my VW bubble |
| 08:04.19 | End | which is why, my pvp trinket shouldn't have a cooldown |
| 08:04.29 | Amarande | End: that's imba too, though |
| 08:04.33 | Amarande | if your PvP trinket doesn't have a cooldown |
| 08:04.47 | Amarande | then basically every form of snare, stun, immobilization etc. loses 100% of its value |
| 08:04.53 | Arrowmaster | yeah my friend stoped pvping in pvp gear on his rogue back when cheat death was still good |
| 08:04.56 | End | yeah, I was kidding, kinda |
| 08:04.58 | Amarande | and a lot of those skills really only see usefulness as it is in PvP :) |
| 08:05.08 | Grum | tbh, if the pvp trinket would have a 5s cooldown and would just remove stuns, it would be nicish |
| 08:05.10 | Arrowmaster | he had dual glavies |
| 08:05.15 | nevcairiel | they should just remove pvp from the game and stop breaking pve for it |
| 08:05.16 | Amarande | oh yeah, cheat death was a horrible bugged piece of shit |
| 08:05.18 | nevcairiel | imho :P |
| 08:05.20 | End | but I got tangled in some pvp, so my trinket was down, -but- I was still in pvp gear, and I just got rolled |
| 08:05.23 | Grum | nevcairiel: that is a fact indeed |
| 08:05.31 | Grum | its just fucked they change pve because of it |
| 08:05.32 | Amarande | although the way they nerfed it was kinda shitty, too |
| 08:05.34 | Grum | just make 2 sets of rules |
| 08:05.47 | Arrowmaster | i think he was in a 3 rogue arena team |
| 08:05.54 | Amarande | because cheat death used to be a useful talent for rogues in tougher PvE situations (soloing elites maybe?) |
| 08:06.02 | Amarande | and then it became useless outside of PvP because it was tied to resilience |
| 08:06.05 | Grum | oh as long as we're qqing |
| 08:06.09 | Grum | lets start about ferals |
| 08:06.17 | Grum | doing 18k shreds on cloth is *not ok* |
| 08:06.21 | End | D: |
| 08:06.24 | Arrowmaster | what? |
| 08:06.28 | Arrowmaster | 18k? |
| 08:06.31 | nevcairiel | wear more leather, then! |
| 08:06.31 | Grum | 18k >< |
| 08:06.36 | Arrowmaster | how? |
| 08:06.40 | Grum | i have no idea |
| 08:06.45 | Arrowmaster | thats how much hp i have |
| 08:06.53 | Grum | but i'm fully furious ... and 18k shredded my ass |
| 08:07.06 | End | that's how much I have in pve gear with my imp out :P |
| 08:07.14 | Grum | i have 27k orso in pvp gear |
| 08:07.15 | Grum | but still |
| 08:07.19 | Grum | 'dude wtf' |
| 08:07.26 | Amarande | in any case, warlocks were screwed because: executioner, MS, triple melee, unlimited pushback, interrupts, dots got reduced by resil |
| 08:07.27 | End | (well, maybe slightly more) |
| 08:07.39 | Amarande | and worst of all, locks have no pushback resistance when casting anything useful in pvp. |
| 08:07.51 | Grum | so what? |
| 08:07.52 | Amarande | mages and priests at least have ways of evading pushback. |
| 08:07.53 | Arrowmaster | i drain soul in pvp |
| 08:08.03 | Grum | Amarande: only upto 70% |
| 08:08.07 | Arrowmaster | i used to use BRM to farm shards preraid |
| 08:08.19 | Amarande | Grum: no pushback resistance + almost all spells are in one school (shadow) = you're fucked in PvP |
| 08:08.27 | Amarande | in 2.x anyway |
| 08:08.34 | Grum | Amarande: it would be useful to start talking about the 'now' |
| 08:08.37 | Grum | who cares how it was ? ;) |
| 08:08.46 | Grum | you'd play affliction in 2.x anyhow |
| 08:08.49 | Amarande | because it meant a three-melee gang had enough time to keep pushing you back till they could interrupt |
| 08:08.54 | Amarande | Grum: well, yeah |
| 08:08.59 | Grum | if you want to qq |
| 08:09.00 | Amarande | because shadow bolt was unusable for the reasons noted |
| 08:09.04 | Amarande | but then they made dots susceptible to resil |
| 08:09.18 | Grum | qq about FoK rogues with insta interrupt on 5 casters |
| 08:09.18 | Amarande | which made affliction crap |
| 08:09.19 | Grum | affliction is not crap at all? |
| 08:09.33 | Grum | seriously, if its well played you get fucked up *so* hard |
| 08:09.42 | Amarande | well, *now* things are getting better |
| 08:09.45 | Amarande | *then* the warlock QQ was genuine |
| 08:09.49 | Grum | who cares? |
| 08:10.02 | Grum | cmon, stop living in the past ;) |
| 08:10.08 | Amarande | <3 affliction now |
| 08:10.13 | Arrowmaster | im a warlock and i dont really care since i dont even play anymore |
| 08:10.20 | Amarande | nothing like that stupid gnome in wintergrasp dying of dots right after even if they get you :) |
| 08:10.26 | Arrowmaster | oh yeah this weekend is the next world event right? |
| 08:10.33 | End | I think so? |
| 08:10.39 | Amarande | brewfest starts next week yeah |
| 08:10.50 | Grum | meh brewfest |
| 08:10.52 | Arrowmaster | yay protodrake! |
| 08:11.01 | Amarande | In the Nether there is no beer ... That's why we drink it here. |
| 08:11.03 | Grum | that means doing those runs twice a day for 14 days >< |
| 08:11.21 | End | twice? |
| 08:11.27 | End | on what, your alt? |
| 08:11.36 | Grum | cooldown is 12hrs |
| 08:11.51 | Grum | or was last time :) |
| 08:12.03 | End | oh, I had no idea |
| 08:12.08 | End | but meh |
| 08:12.12 | Grum | yes it sucks :P |
| 08:12.17 | End | I'll probably run it a few times and then get bored :P |
| 08:12.30 | End | I have the ram already at least |
| 08:12.31 | Grum | i need to run it to get ~650 points orso to get the achievements needed for the drake |
| 08:12.39 | End | although |
| 08:12.45 | End | I guess I -do- have to kill him |
| 08:12.51 | End | just for the achievement |
| 08:12.56 | Arrowmaster | i just need to kill the boss |
| 08:13.03 | Arrowmaster | although i could use a drill remote |
| 08:13.11 | Arrowmaster | i was trying to get one last year but never did |
| 08:13.18 | End | <3 mole machine remote |
| 08:13.27 | Grum | yes! |
| 08:13.36 | Grum | i love that thing =) |
| 08:13.36 | Grum | oh damn |
| 08:13.46 | Grum | this also means doing the daily quest for the kodo |
| 08:14.10 | Arrowmaster | you can quest for a kodo? |
| 08:14.27 | End | the quest to summon him I think he means? |
| 08:14.49 | End | there wasn't any sort of quest to specifically get it last year |
| 08:15.05 | Arrowmaster | i have all 3 mounts and both brewmaiden trinkets |
| 08:15.42 | Arrowmaster | and i have to purchase another brew of the month club membership |
| 08:15.45 | Arrowmaster | since mine broke |
| 08:15.49 | Shirik | jnwhiteh, were you the one that said you don't like AspectJ as a language? |
| 08:16.13 | Bruners | i need some coding tips to make my profession link addon not spam the link if someone types the same keyword again and again, the basic setup is not hard and already done http://wowuidev.pastey.net/125246 |
| 08:17.23 | Shirik | you have been learning bad programming habits Bruners :) |
| 08:17.42 | Shirik | ChatFrameEditBox:GetAttribute"channelTarget" |
| 08:17.53 | Arrowmaster | hes been learning from haste |
| 08:17.58 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 08:18.00 | Bruners | Shirik: that is all haste :P |
| 08:18.05 | Grum | urf that is aweful |
| 08:18.14 | Arrowmaster | haste is an asshat like that |
| 08:18.17 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 08:18.28 | Shirik | also the use of "type" as a variable name is confusing :P |
| 08:18.30 | Grum | 'OMG 2 chars less to type but 2 mins more to understand' |
| 08:18.40 | Shirik | Grum: Sounds like perl |
| 08:18.46 | Amarande | say, is it still the same brewfest boss as last year or will it be 83 elite now? |
| 08:18.49 | Arrowmaster | haste has some completely unreadable stuff |
| 08:18.51 | Grum | sounds like compressed perl :) |
| 08:19.04 | Grum | Amarande: its a 'boss' so 83 |
| 08:19.13 | *** join/#wowuidev laeg_ (n=laeg@unaffiliated/laeg) |
| 08:19.16 | Grum | i wonder how this will go in cataclysm, lvl88? :P |
| 08:19.32 | industrial | Infected Wounds now reduces the movement speed of the target by 16/34/50% (up from 8/17/25%) and its attack speed by 6/14/20% (up from 3/7/10%). |
| 08:19.35 | industrial | what. |
| 08:19.44 | Grum | but! you can dispel that |
| 08:19.51 | tem | industrial, no longer stacks |
| 08:19.51 | industrial | not if you are a hunter! |
| 08:19.54 | industrial | ah ok |
| 08:19.55 | tem | so it's the same |
| 08:19.56 | industrial | phew! |
| 08:20.06 | Grum | cTime > (sWTime+wWTime) <-- that is just .. bad variable names |
| 08:20.16 | *** join/#wowuidev laeg (n=laeg@unaffiliated/laeg) |
| 08:20.32 | laeg | can somebody recommend an addon for telling me things like how many seconds are left until towers are capped in AV etc? |
| 08:20.34 | Bruners | why is that bad variable names? |
| 08:20.38 | industrial | Grum: yes. |
| 08:20.41 | End | Arrowmaster: probably same, since they didn't update the midsummer boss either |
| 08:20.45 | industrial | Bruners: they do not tell what they do |
| 08:20.47 | Grum | Bruners: because they mean shit |
| 08:20.59 | industrial | whats sW, sW and s? just spell the whole name |
| 08:21.01 | Bruners | kinda have explained them when they are defined in the local |
| 08:21.06 | Grum | current_time, last_whisper, whisper_delay |
| 08:21.22 | Grum | or whisper_wait |
| 08:21.27 | Grum | that is just crap :) |
| 08:21.34 | Amarande | Next QQ: Seems to imply that Blizzard treats certain top arena teams as their baby, and will nerf techniques that ruin those teams' cardinal strategy. |
| 08:21.35 | Grum | last_whisper_say even |
| 08:21.45 | Grum | or last_whisper and last_guild :p |
| 08:22.01 | industrial | Amarande: or rather, some teams are sticking out too much yet again so batnerftiemz |
| 08:22.02 | Grum | Amarande: ofc they do |
| 08:22.18 | Grum | right now the 'flavor of the month' is DK+hunter+(priest/druid/shaman) |
| 08:22.22 | industrial | glass is half full etc |
| 08:22.24 | Amarande | Specifically: that Blizzard is nerfing hunters because a really famous 3's arena team depends heavily on chain CC for their continued tournament victory, and anyone who comes up with a successful counter that hasn't been prominent before is obviously OP and needs to be nerfed |
| 08:22.27 | Grum | or dk :p |
| 08:22.29 | Grum | errrrr pala |
| 08:22.30 | Amarande | Grum: not even FotM |
| 08:22.31 | Bruners | if you look past my variable names and hastes code, how should i solve the issue |
| 08:22.38 | Grum | fotm? |
| 08:22.42 | Amarande | apparently, the hunter immunity team beat out the chain CC team that keeps winning 3's tourney after tourney |
| 08:22.51 | Bruners | do i make it with a table storing all names or would that be overkill |
| 08:23.03 | Amarande | in other words, they found a simple weakness in one of the e-sport's most famous teams, so obviously they need to be nerfed is what the QQ'er implies. |
| 08:23.21 | Amarande | hmm |
| 08:23.29 | Amarande | wonder if it's necessary in order to help e-sports flourish though |
| 08:23.31 | Grum | Bruners: you could just make a table and an onupdate to clean out entries older than X seconds? |
| 08:23.45 | Amarande | sports without a really famous celebrity team to equate with them tend to lose popularity like a spigot, right? :) |
| 08:23.53 | Amarande | hence why, say, in the US we don't really care much about soccer. |
| 08:23.57 | Grum | Amarande: hunter immunity is something which is stupidly OP atm |
| 08:24.05 | Bruners | im starting to think about letting whispers go untimed and only stop guild spam |
| 08:24.06 | Grum | not being able to touch them for 28 seconds is just .. wtf |
| 08:24.15 | Amarande | because the big name soccer teams are from places like Brazil and the UK. we don't really have one. :) |
| 08:24.36 | Grum | Bruners: i'd make both tbh |
| 08:24.42 | Amarande | and hockey is always tottering on the brink of slipping away from popularity, both because of its low-scoring nature and because there doesn't seem to be a huge standout team in hockey lately |
| 08:24.55 | Amarande | meanwhile, baseball, football and basketball prosper, probably because they have iconic teams |
| 08:25.19 | Amarande | I wonder if it's reasonable then to expect that Blizzard would nurture the success of the chain-CC 3's team in order to help foster an "iconic team" for this new sport |
| 08:25.53 | Amarande | Grum: if it's that OP though, why are hunters the least represented team in arena? |
| 08:26.01 | Grum | tbh, i hate the fact that if you get sheeped you can actually go OOC so a rogue in RMP can sap you again O.o |
| 08:26.11 | Grum | Amarande: its only since s7 that they are getting more popular |
| 08:26.27 | Amarande | "So beast cleave wins a tourney. So RMP is so OVERPOWERED that an immune setup can get away with just beating the ONE team that has won 3v3 tournaments for YEARS with OVERPOWERED chain CC rotations." |
| 08:26.30 | Amarande | -- forum QQ |
| 08:26.44 | laeg | can somebody recommend an addon for telling me things like how many seconds are left until towers are capped in AV etc? |
| 08:26.54 | Amarande | apparently, like I said, the implication is that Blizzard wants that "one team that has won 3v3 tournaments for years" to continue to shine |
| 08:27.01 | Grum | laeg: try Battleground (newly made) or sspvp4 |
| 08:27.08 | Grum | eeer sspvp3 .. |
| 08:27.17 | Grum | or dbm also has a battleground module |
| 08:27.47 | Grum | good rmp is just op, but they already put blind/fear on the same DR |
| 08:27.50 | laeg | Grum: ty |
| 08:28.03 | Grum | which is not helping as you still cannot remove blind in any way |
| 08:28.31 | Grum | rmp is completely based on a healer using its trinket, after that stuff dies |
| 08:28.32 | Amarande | If you were Blizzard, and keeping the e-sport thing in mind, would you try to at least a little favor the team that keeps winning each year with a recognizable style? |
| 08:28.46 | Amarande | Or would you be nerfing them (like seems like should be the case, if chain CC is that overpowered) |
| 08:29.14 | Amarande | I guess I'm thinking in relation to RL sports |
| 08:29.17 | Grum | tbh, poison application rate should be lowered and it should be under a slow DR |
| 08:29.35 | Grum | you simply cannot dispel rogue poisions |
| 08:29.37 | Amarande | Would baseball be as successful, for instance, if the commissioner of baseball tried to change to rules to deal with "The Yankees are OP"? |
| 08:29.37 | Grum | 0i |
| 08:29.55 | Amarande | Or would it be in danger of withering as fans start thinking the game is being dithered with? |
| 08:30.10 | Grum | smells like the same crap they are pulling in F1 |
| 08:30.15 | Arrowmaster | theres one major problem with that though |
| 08:30.20 | Arrowmaster | the yankees suck |
| 08:30.32 | Amarande | Unfortunately, I'm not sure that nerfing the best doesn't damage a sport :| |
| 08:30.35 | Amarande | Look at football, for instance |
| 08:30.50 | Amarande | it was exposed some time back by the New York Times that the game regulators analyze the scores and TV ratings each year |
| 08:31.12 | Amarande | and then will nerf defensive play in particular, in order to boost scores because "TOUCHDOWN!" equates to a ratings boost and more ad revenue |
| 08:31.43 | Amarande | and thus, a lot of folks are starting to wonder about the credibility of football as a consistent sport from year to year |
| 08:32.13 | Arrowmaster | professional isnt |
| 08:32.39 | Arrowmaster | college does a lot of sleeze moves recruiting |
| 08:32.42 | Amarande | I wonder if it could well be that if Blizzard rebalanced arena so that 3v3 team is knocked off its high horse, they'd be afraid that e-sport fans would be turned off |
| 08:33.03 | Arrowmaster | really there arent many e-sport fans afaik |
| 08:33.04 | Amarande | like "how can you really call this a consistent sport when the rules keep getting changed each year because people kept winning?" |
| 08:33.52 | Arrowmaster | i mean sure theres people that will watch recordings or watch at a tournement like blizzcon |
| 08:33.53 | Amarande | not to mention said team is probably their best chance to get an iconic team, like the Yankees, Lakers, Patriots etc. for real pro sports |
| 08:33.59 | laeg | hmm |
| 08:34.04 | Amarande | like I said ... can a sport survive without an iconic team? |
| 08:34.06 | laeg | isn't my eu realm supposed to be down for maintenance |
| 08:34.08 | Arrowmaster | but other than that the attention people give it is very low |
| 08:34.16 | Amarande | or would it be doomed to the obscurity that, for instance, "Major League Soccer" suffers from in the USA? |
| 08:35.09 | Arrowmaster | i guess really the closest you can compare e-sport to is golf since its the only major single player sport, everything else is huge teams |
| 08:35.26 | Amarande | in which case |
| 08:35.45 | Amarande | would golf really have a tournament circuit if it wasn't for iconic players like Nicklaus, Palmer, Woods, etc.? |
| 08:36.15 | Arrowmaster | probably, but it might not have the tv coverage it has now |
| 08:36.27 | Amarande | or would it have collapsed long ago because it wouldn't have a focal point to bring in the fans and advertising money, and golf courses would have to be exposed for the unaffordably expensive acreage they are and probably eventually taken over by cities because the course folks wouldn't be able to pay property tax? |
| 08:37.19 | Arrowmaster | most golf courses are privately owned by clubs attended by very rich people, they can afford the taxes |
| 08:37.41 | Amarande | (alternate timeline) "so, what happened to this 'golf' thing I read about in the encyclopaedia?" "oh, it kinda disappeared a while back, there was no real big name and course owners couldn't bring in enough big money, they couldn't afford their taxes and now your car right there is parked where hole 18 once was" |
| 08:38.05 | Amarande | yeah, but how did they attract those people to begin with? |
| 08:38.23 | Arrowmaster | i really dont know |
| 08:38.33 | Amarande | it seems like in the capitalist world, it really is more important to make a "name" than to build an actually better mousetrap |
| 08:38.52 | Arrowmaster | capitalism sucks |
| 08:38.54 | Amarande | hence for instance in gaming |
| 08:38.56 | laeg | golf is the best way to ruin a good walk |
| 08:39.12 | Amarande | the relative obscurity of, say, the awesome Shadow Hearts series until games 2 and 3 exposed it for the awesome it was |
| 08:39.12 | Arrowmaster | trust me capitalism will destroy the world |
| 08:40.29 | Amarande | I can tell you EXACTLY why Shadow Hearts, despite being one of THE most awesome RPGs of the first few years of PS2 didn't become famous for a good long while |
| 08:40.38 | Arrowmaster | actually i predict capitalism will destroy many worlds when humans spread out into space and planets are mined to litteral nothingness for profit |
| 08:40.39 | Amarande | Shadow Hearts, release date: December 11, 2001 |
| 08:40.45 | Amarande | Final Fantasy X, release date: December 17, 2001 |
| 08:41.07 | Amarande | FFX's name eclipsed it too much, SH had to wait till its sequel to gain fame |
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| 08:41.26 | Amarande | despite the fact that FFX is by far the inferior game :) |
| 08:41.29 | Arrowmaster | that happens a lot with more than just games |
| 08:41.33 | Arrowmaster | happens with movies too |
| 08:42.01 | Amarande | yeah, one movie makes runaway first-weekend ticket sales and the others are never heard from again until they're on discount DVD heh |
| 08:42.09 | Arrowmaster | a lot of cult classics are cult classics because they had a bad release date and did horrible in theaters |
| 08:42.56 | Arrowmaster | and i have more discount dvds than i want to count |
| 08:43.04 | Amarande | yeah, me too |
| 08:43.11 | Amarande | most of which I put away in a box somewhere without watching :S |
| 08:43.49 | Arrowmaster | speaking of dvds, where the fuck did i put my knight rider box set, i dont think its in this room where most of my box sets are |
| 08:46.20 | Amarande | anyway |
| 08:46.23 | Amarande | I should get some sleep before work |
| 08:46.24 | Amarande | night :) |
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| 09:00.43 | laeg | can anyone recommend a mut rogue pvp guide covering tactics on different classes, namely how on earth i'm supposed to catch a good frostmage? |
| 09:17.51 | Torhal | Heh: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/09/actiblizzard-ceo-kotick-policy-rewards-profits-removes-fun.ars?utm_source=microblogging&utm_medium=arstch&utm_term=Main%20Account&utm_campaign=microblogging |
| 09:20.10 | Corrodias | the article suggests he came in from the Activision side |
| 09:20.33 | Corrodias | interesting how that works |
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| 10:22.13 | Fisker | this is madness :( |
| 10:26.15 | laeg | Grum: battleground doesn't display the time until bases are capped |
| 10:26.25 | Grum | so? :D |
| 10:26.30 | laeg | Grum: i'll try sspvp3 |
| 10:26.34 | laeg | hehe |
| 10:26.35 | laeg | :P |
| 10:26.36 | Grum | :P |
| 10:26.42 | laeg | seems useful enough |
| 10:26.45 | Grum | do oyu need to know about them unless they are capped? ;) |
| 10:27.01 | laeg | without reading it all it seems to allow you to message groups of people at certain bases, also displays the number at each |
| 10:30.27 | Fisker | haste :( |
| 10:31.41 | haste | Fisker: stop sucking |
| 10:32.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 10:34.59 | Fisker | windows 7 won't boot the installer :O |
| 10:35.10 | Fisker | Or atleast it hangs after starting |
| 10:35.11 | Fisker | :( |
| 10:37.08 | Fisker | moo: hdd: C:\ 89.25GB/279.46GB D:\ 939.25GB/1.82TB K:\ 74.44GB/74.53GB |
| 10:37.31 | Fisker | gonna try again |
| 10:37.35 | Fisker | i love you haste |
| 10:37.42 | Adys | http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/yahoo-search-engineers/ |
| 10:37.47 | Adys | matt's awesome |
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| 11:30.09 | nevcairiel | anyone having trouble with sound in wow using wine 1.1.29? |
| 11:30.23 | nevcairiel | i get like no sound at all anymore :( |
| 11:32.01 | Fisker | it's easy to fix though nevcairiel |
| 11:32.10 | Fisker | requires a reboot though |
| 11:32.48 | Fisker | All you have to do is take a windows cd/dvd put it in the cd/dvd drive, reboot and follow on-screen instructions |
| 11:33.00 | nevcairiel | i don't even need a cd, i have dual boot setup :P |
| 11:33.23 | nevcairiel | but i got it to work, apparently the alsa output is broke, using OSS and the padsp wrapper works :P |
| 11:36.33 | Fisker | i still like my method better |
| 11:36.49 | Fisker | i just have to figure out why Windows needs like 10 minutes to load the setup part of Window |
| 11:36.51 | Fisker | Windows |
| 11:37.01 | Fisker | my confused level is over 9000 |
| 11:55.25 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@wnn72112.wireless.dtu.dk) |
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| 12:23.29 | Jerub | i worked out this evening that between savage road and my +agility idol procing, i do 1kdps from my melee attack alone |
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| 12:44.34 | Fisker | I DID WELL |
| 12:44.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 12:44.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:44.45 | Fisker | fail award goes to me btw :( |
| 12:45.05 | Lopeppeppy | Why for? |
| 12:45.30 | Fisker | i installed Windows 7 E |
| 12:45.44 | Lopeppeppy | Bah, everyone has to try crack once in their life. |
| 12:46.07 | nevcairiel | didnt they dump the E versions again with their funny browser-choosing-page? :P |
| 12:46.16 | Fisker | i did it unknowingly Lopeppeppy :( |
| 12:46.19 | Fisker | yes nevcairiel |
| 12:46.25 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (n=chatzill@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 12:47.35 | Fisker | Which means i'll have to reinstall in a few minutes |
| 12:47.38 | Fisker | when i've stopped raging |
| 12:48.26 | Fisker | I also have to find out why one of my Windows 7 ISO's are named after Non-E when they are E |
| 12:51.20 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, how did you do something "unknowingly" to your computer? That's very fail, I totally expect better of everyone in here. *poke* |
| 12:52.34 | Fisker | The first Visual signs that a copy of Windows is E is when the install is done |
| 12:52.46 | Fisker | and like you'd look at that either |
| 12:52.50 | Lopeppeppy | You installed it, silly bear. |
| 12:52.51 | Fisker | rasps |
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| 13:10.17 | industrial | at what NPC can I stop XP gain again? |
| 13:10.24 | industrial | my druid is still 60 and I wanna have some fun in bgs |
| 13:12.02 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (i=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 13:12.16 | industrial | nm got it |
| 13:18.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 13:28.53 | foxlit | 60 is the low end of the 60-69 bracket, however. |
| 13:31.45 | industrial | wat |
| 13:31.47 | industrial | sigh |
| 13:31.48 | industrial | :| |
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| 13:32.20 | foxlit | AV might do something special |
| 13:32.34 | foxlit | It does. |
| 13:33.26 | foxlit | AV is 51-60, 61-70, 71-80 -- the others are the x*10-(x*10+9) |
| 13:34.52 | roastx | whats windows E |
| 13:35.10 | Fisker | A version of Windows without Internet Explorer |
| 13:35.38 | roastx | why not just not use ie eh? |
| 13:35.44 | foxlit | E for Exceptional. |
| 13:35.49 | Lopeppeppy | It has it's uses, I guess. |
| 13:36.04 | nevcairiel | It was only there to please the EU |
| 13:36.12 | roastx | yeah i get the occasional site that doesnt work right with firefox |
| 13:36.16 | nevcairiel | but it was dumped again and replaced by another thing to calm them down |
| 13:36.19 | roastx | and only works in IE |
| 13:36.53 | roastx | some things on my credit card site only work in IE |
| 13:36.56 | roastx | :| |
| 13:37.00 | alestane | I think you can get IE for it, it just doesn't have IE embedded into it. |
| 13:37.48 | roastx | i want linux with IE embedded. |
| 13:38.01 | foxlit | I want a unicorn pony. |
| 13:38.07 | Lopeppeppy | I want ice cream. |
| 13:38.16 | roastx | i asked first. |
| 13:38.16 | foxlit | Where's my pony, alestane? |
| 13:38.35 | Lopeppeppy | It got stopped by customs in shipping. |
| 13:39.33 | foxlit | lua> 8*5*60 |
| 13:39.34 | lua_bot | foxlit: 2400 |
| 13:39.58 | roastx | bah anyone have the problem with windows live calendar |
| 13:40.08 | roastx | where its like constantly trying to update |
| 13:40.50 | alestane | sends foxlit a pwny. |
| 13:41.22 | Fisker | roastx how do you propose i download a browser(Don't bother i already know, though it's annoying as hell) or use services/applications in Windows that depend on IE8 as an application? |
| 13:42.09 | roastx | you already know |
| 13:42.18 | roastx | theres your answer |
| 13:43.10 | Fisker | that i already know doesn't mean a billion other do |
| 13:43.17 | Fisker | also you didn't answer my second question |
| 13:43.36 | roastx | im lazy i just worked all night |
| 13:43.41 | roastx | stop trying to hurt my brain |
| 13:43.42 | roastx | :( |
| 13:43.58 | industrial | foxlit: thanks |
| 13:45.31 | A-KO | IE8 is a good browser |
| 13:45.35 | A-KO | I wouldn't remove it :P |
| 13:45.41 | A-KO | I use it on my machine at work, use it on my netbook |
| 13:46.00 | A-KO | it's not the fastest browser in the world but it is rated very high for security (especially combined with Windows Vista/7) |
| 13:46.01 | Fisker | IE8 is awesome |
| 13:46.04 | nevcairiel | Its IE, that contradicts good |
| 13:46.23 | A-KO | nevcairiel: Time to drop the viewpoint from IE5/6 |
| 13:46.51 | nevcairiel | Alone the point that it needs a list of weg-pages that need "compat-mode rendering" is a point of failure |
| 13:46.53 | A-KO | If you're the person that everyone you know who's a computer dumbass calls to fix their computer problems, get them on IE8 |
| 13:46.57 | nevcairiel | web-pages* |
| 13:47.11 | foxlit | nevcairiel: That's not an IE problem. |
| 13:47.12 | roastx | INTERNET EXPLODER LOL |
| 13:47.16 | A-KO | nevcairiel: That's only because the websites do browser checking, find IE, and render for IE6/7. |
| 13:47.27 | A-KO | that's not IE's fault |
| 13:47.33 | A-KO | IE8's, anyway |
| 13:47.33 | nevcairiel | of course it is |
| 13:47.34 | roastx | i prefer FireCox |
| 13:47.39 | A-KO | incorrect |
| 13:47.45 | nevcairiel | a history of broken rendering doesnt make it good now :P |
| 13:47.54 | nevcairiel | its still completly weird with rednering stuff |
| 13:48.01 | foxlit | A history of broken rendering doesn't make it bad now either. |
| 13:48.02 | Fisker | naw |
| 13:48.18 | mikma | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:48.25 | mikma | another good reason to play DDO |
| 13:48.29 | A-KO | oh noes |
| 13:48.38 | A-KO | going to QUIT THE GAME because of a single change |
| 13:48.49 | Fisker | DERP DERP Online mikma ? |
| 13:48.51 | Wobin | mikma: what's the cooldown? |
| 13:49.04 | foxlit | mikma: it's np, we've had plenty of time to level another character. |
| 13:49.25 | Fisker | that's what you get for fotm'ing |
| 13:49.33 | mikma | wobin: 1min |
| 13:49.39 | foxlit | I hereby declare it fotp'ing |
| 13:49.41 | mikma | Glyph of Bone Shield - Adds 1 additional charges to your Bone Shield. (Down from 2) |
| 13:49.43 | A-KO | according to wowhead there's no cd on bone shield |
| 13:49.46 | foxlit | p for patch :) |
| 13:49.50 | foxlit | wowhead is borked, then. |
| 13:50.01 | Wobin | A-KO: it says 2min for me =P |
| 13:50.02 | mikma | there is cd |
| 13:50.07 | A-KO | meh, big deal |
| 13:50.08 | Wobin | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49222 |
| 13:50.09 | mikma | it's 1min atm on ptr |
| 13:50.17 | A-KO | oh |
| 13:50.19 | A-KO | I looked up wrong spell |
| 13:50.20 | A-KO | go me |
| 13:50.31 | Wobin | it's not BONERSHIELD |
| 13:50.40 | Lopeppeppy | *snark* |
| 13:52.16 | mikma | Bone Shield: This ability now has 3 charges instead of 4. Cooldown reduced to 1 minute. |
| 13:52.17 | roastx | bonershield - this shield uses penis instead of armor rating - 9000 penises = 60% damage reduction |
| 13:52.19 | mikma | there we go |
| 13:52.30 | mikma | so, that's max 4 bones, lasts 1min, cd 1min |
| 13:52.54 | Fisker | over 9000 penises |
| 13:53.02 | A-KO | not a big deal IMO |
| 13:53.12 | A-KO | cd 1 minute lasts 1 minute.... |
| 13:53.17 | Fisker | not pvp wise anyways |
| 13:53.25 | mikma | or tanking |
| 13:54.07 | foxlit | Mikk: that would appear to be a buff. |
| 13:54.11 | foxlit | *ma |
| 13:54.17 | Fisker | mikkma? |
| 13:54.22 | Fisker | BAM |
| 13:54.24 | mikma | ma: |
| 13:54.40 | foxlit | * is the "correct using magic" operator. |
| 13:54.52 | Fisker | ma? |
| 13:54.57 | Fisker | ah |
| 13:54.59 | Fisker | correct using magic |
| 13:55.02 | Fisker | ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu- |
| 13:55.18 | Fisker | atleast i found a disc with the right version of windows 7 on it |
| 13:55.31 | Fisker | Now i just need to copy (zzz) and then install (zzz) |
| 13:55.51 | Fisker | for some odd reason Windows 7 uses like 20 minutes on loading(srsly) and then 3-5 minutes of copying files |
| 13:56.06 | foxlit | My disk partitioning strategy paid off. |
| 13:56.14 | nevcairiel | it did that when i installed it off my usb stick |
| 13:56.16 | Fisker | waited like 10 minutes for the initial "Install now" screen and then another 5-10 minutes on the screen where you setup disk partitions |
| 13:56.20 | nevcairiel | but from dvd its fine |
| 13:56.25 | Fisker | doesn't matter here |
| 13:56.40 | foxlit | Buy a new disk, allocate all of it but ~200gb, start using the allocated portion for data. |
| 13:56.57 | Fisker | But the previous install i had via usb worked fine |
| 13:57.01 | foxlit | Allocate the other 200gb to get a new system partition when updating the OS, and throw out the old disk. |
| 13:57.33 | Fisker | my VelociRaptor have also started acting up |
| 13:57.51 | Fisker | Every few "cold" boots it won't detect my drive |
| 13:58.04 | nevcairiel | owned Fisker |
| 13:58.18 | foxlit | Owned for trusting raptors, surely. |
| 13:58.33 | Fisker | And then it'll do anything from not detect it at all, from detecting a HDD but getting an error, and from using 1 minute to properly find and initialize it |
| 13:58.37 | Fisker | Then after that it works fine |
| 13:58.48 | Fisker | But as long as the computer has been shutdown it will do that |
| 13:59.00 | nevcairiel | I had that, turned out the memory was running on wrong timings and that caused it :P |
| 13:59.21 | nevcairiel | no idea how those interacted, but it stopped when i fixed the memory timings |
| 13:59.58 | Fisker | mine are running to factory specs as far as i can see :P |
| 14:04.44 | *** join/#wowuidev `-FISKER_Q (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 14:05.07 | `-FISKER_Q | the least it could've done was to not crash until i had copied mah files :( |
| 14:06.21 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@241.209.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:06.37 | `-FISKER_Q | haha |
| 14:06.44 | `-FISKER_Q | it was either complete or just about complete |
| 14:07.46 | zenzelezz | I must say... "Fisker-" sounds better than "`-FISKER_Q" |
| 14:07.49 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (i=sinus@77.255.240.130) |
| 14:08.16 | `-FISKER_Q | yes zenzelezz |
| 14:08.18 | `-FISKER_Q | i also hate you |
| 14:08.22 | zenzelezz | \o/ |
| 14:15.19 | mikma | wobwork: http://www.psychedelik.com/tunein-psy.pls :D |
| 14:29.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@67.101.72.26) |
| 14:31.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 14:32.40 | Kraps | hey, if a vendor sends me an email saying that he "sended the responds" to me, was he just in a rush or is that an english fail? |
| 14:33.02 | zenzelezz | bit of both perhaps |
| 14:36.06 | Fisker | *yawn* |
| 14:36.38 | Kraps | morning fisky |
| 14:37.09 | Fisker | naw |
| 14:37.13 | Fisker | copying files |
| 14:37.27 | Fisker | need to install windows 7 |
| 14:37.27 | Fisker | (again) |
| 14:38.02 | Kraps | betas fail |
| 14:38.45 | Fisker | It's RTM |
| 14:38.47 | Fisker | so no beta |
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| 14:44.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:44.55 | Shirik | Kraps: imo, he was from India |
| 14:45.39 | Kraps | lol, doubt it |
| 14:54.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@ip503d59c0.speed.planet.nl) |
| 14:55.03 | *** join/#wowuidev kneeki (n=chatzill@66.45.169.50) |
| 14:57.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@174.98.2.214) |
| 15:01.08 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (i=sinus@87.205.146.222) |
| 15:11.41 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
| 15:13.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 15:16.52 | Shirik | no kneeki |
| 15:17.09 | kneeki | Shirik: =( |
| 15:18.11 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@76.212.99.109) |
| 15:21.12 | Kraps | kneeki: wednesday is usually not a good morning sry |
| 15:21.25 | kneeki | It hasen't been a good one for me so far =\ |
| 15:21.36 | kneeki | some of the most retarded tech calls just at the start of my day =( |
| 15:22.37 | Kraps | "wheres the any key?" |
| 15:22.45 | kneeki | exactly that |
| 15:23.03 | kneeki | I tried talking a woman through click the alt key on the keyboard, to show the File Edit View ... at the top of IE |
| 15:23.06 | zenzelezz | "i accidentally the whole boot record!" |
| 15:23.12 | kneeki | she COULD NOT comprehend 'clicking' |
| 15:23.45 | zenzelezz | "how do you know when to left- or right-click?" |
| 15:24.02 | kdtresh | most keyboards don't click now, it's more pressing than clicking |
| 15:24.15 | kdtresh | i used to have one with good click action |
| 15:24.46 | Kraps | yeah, never heard of clicking a key |
| 15:24.59 | zenzelezz | lurved his Trust Direct Access keyboard |
| 15:26.19 | Seerah | I don't click keys. I press or "hit" them |
| 15:27.21 | Kraps | ^ |
| 15:27.51 | Shirik | I tried to click a key |
| 15:27.55 | Shirik | but the mouse won't go down there |
| 15:27.58 | Shirik | please fix |
| 15:28.26 | Kraps | lulz |
| 15:28.40 | kdtresh | my mouse reaches my keyboard |
| 15:28.43 | kdtresh | do you have a trackball? :P |
| 15:28.53 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-143-5.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 15:29.12 | nevcairiel | Shirik, turn on the clicky-keyboard in the accessibility settings |
| 15:29.29 | kdtresh | or open charmap |
| 15:29.33 | Kraps | pick up the mouse and press the keys with it |
| 15:30.19 | Lopeppeppy | Or use your nose, that's very popular these days. |
| 15:30.37 | kdtresh | be careful, you might get the swine flu |
| 15:31.13 | kdtresh | a few weeks back, one of my coworkers went to mexico for a week |
| 15:31.16 | Lopeppeppy | Tell me about it, I work at a college. |
| 15:31.17 | kdtresh | got sick, came home |
| 15:31.24 | kdtresh | and came into work on monday >< |
| 15:31.33 | kdtresh | yeah, he had swine flu |
| 15:32.10 | kdtresh | they sent a crew around to bleach all the doorknobs |
| 15:32.38 | Lopeppeppy | People just need to be more responsible, if you're sick, do not go to work, how hard is that? |
| 15:32.45 | kdtresh | seriously |
| 15:32.55 | kdtresh | especially if you just spent a week in the heart of swine flu country |
| 15:33.07 | Lopeppeppy | Employers are causing themselves endless trouble by not being flexible enough with work-from-home when someone is sick. |
| 15:33.34 | Gnarfoz | why would I work when I'm sick? :o |
| 15:34.02 | kdtresh | the first employment tier here gets 3 weeks of sick time per year |
| 15:34.14 | kdtresh | there's no excuse to come in with swine flu |
| 15:36.43 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 15:37.09 | Lopeppeppy | If I teach one moe sheeple how to copy a webpage, I will slay someone. |
| 15:38.02 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy |
| 15:38.08 | Shirik | my webpage |
| 15:38.10 | Shirik | it needs copying |
| 15:38.11 | Lopeppeppy | un-rawr. |
| 15:38.15 | Lopeppeppy | Very unrawr. |
| 15:38.30 | Lopeppeppy | eats Shirik from the feet up, so he can hear himself scream the entire time! |
| 15:38.36 | Shirik | o.o |
| 15:38.44 | Kraps | back away |
| 15:39.11 | kdtresh | "hey farva, what's that restaurant you like with all the goofy shit on the walls and the mozzarella sticks" |
| 15:39.15 | Lopeppeppy | I'm gonna go out for lunch, I'm too cranky to sit still. Back in 45! |
| 15:39.27 | Shirik | bye |
| 15:39.30 | Kraps | its only 11:30 |
| 15:39.32 | kdtresh | see ya |
| 15:39.56 | nevcairiel | its 5:40, what are you doing at work still? |
| 15:40.12 | NightHawkTheSan1 | technically, she's not AT work anymore... |
| 15:41.30 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D989.flatrate.dk) |
| 15:41.52 | nevcairiel | you guys should move to europe, and you can all leave work alot earlier :P |
| 15:42.15 | kdtresh | but how early do you have to get up? |
| 15:42.38 | nevcairiel | thats not the point :P |
| 15:44.34 | Kraps | you can drive at 120 mph, which is cool |
| 15:44.50 | nevcairiel | germany even has areas which are completly unlimited |
| 15:45.00 | nevcairiel | which is even cooler |
| 15:48.14 | Shirik | I don't think my car would stay together if I reached 100 |
| 15:48.26 | Kraps | and they're not MVA hotspots nevcairiel ? |
| 15:48.32 | NightHawkTheSan1 | I don't even own a car.. |
| 15:54.04 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:54.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 15:55.15 | nevcairiel | Kraps, MVA? |
| 15:55.33 | Kraps | car crashes |
| 15:55.39 | nevcairiel | oh, no |
| 15:55.47 | nevcairiel | if they were, they would limit it |
| 15:56.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (i=Unknown@c-98-245-39-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:56.30 | Kraps | where do you live? |
| 15:56.51 | nevcairiel | northern germany |
| 15:57.19 | Kraps | born and raised? |
| 15:57.29 | nevcairiel | yea |
| 15:57.59 | airtonix | lololol ocean comic by warren ellis : #1 "thats platform , owned and operated by the Doors Corporation." #2 "hey, the same people whose operating system makes my computer turn blue and fall over twice a day. why do they have a station out here?" |
| 15:58.39 | airtonix | http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=3723 |
| 15:59.02 | airtonix | http://rapidshare.com/files/272136555/_Warren_Ellis___Ocean.rar |
| 16:02.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 16:03.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 16:03.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@79-79-224-67.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:04.24 | Aelobin | remind me to inspect the raid leader before ever going into a toc 10 pug again >_< http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Maelstrom&n=Otacon |
| 16:04.37 | durcyn | at least he has a cool name |
| 16:04.44 | Aelobin | :P |
| 16:05.12 | Aelobin | i swear he was leading a toc 10 pug :P no lies |
| 16:05.34 | nevcairiel | probably an alt of a raider |
| 16:05.41 | *** join/#wowuidev jadakren (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-107-27.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 16:05.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Bruners (i=lasseb@colargol.tihlde.org) |
| 16:05.49 | ZorbaTHut | I've seen worse, if the guy knows what he's doing he can probably get through toc 10 |
| 16:05.57 | ZorbaTHut | the rings are kind of WTF though |
| 16:06.06 | Aelobin | so is the lack of gems and enchants |
| 16:06.07 | ZorbaTHut | as are the gems and enchants |
| 16:06.09 | ZorbaTHut | yeah |
| 16:06.09 | cog|work | tickles Lunessa |
| 16:06.17 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:06.28 | Aelobin | and pvp gear doesnt help :P |
| 16:06.35 | Aelobin | anyway, aelo bitchfest over xD |
| 16:06.46 | ZorbaTHut | I have still seen worse though - a rogue with tailoring, using only stuff they crafted themselves, plus a pair of weapons 15 levels too low |
| 16:06.55 | Aelobin | in toc 10? xD |
| 16:07.04 | ZorbaTHut | no, level 45 or so ;) |
| 16:07.10 | Aelobin | :P |
| 16:07.43 | Aelobin | ive only ever been in 2 ToC10 pugs |
| 16:07.53 | Aelobin | and both times, at least half the raid are missing bracer enchants, belt sockets |
| 16:07.56 | nevcairiel | i've never played since 3.2 :P |
| 16:07.57 | Aelobin | yknow, the basic stuff |
| 16:08.30 | nevcairiel | i should just get onlien again and get a toc pug for fun |
| 16:10.09 | Lunessa | Would it be a PuG full of Fail and Pain leading to Repairs and Despair? |
| 16:10.32 | Aelobin | lol you could make so many guild names out of that message Lunessa :P |
| 16:10.48 | durcyn | no you couldn't, none of it's cliche latin phrases. |
| 16:11.01 | Lunessa | There's a person in my guild who says that pugging is all about pain and repairs. |
| 16:12.14 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (i=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 16:13.19 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@81.57.79.123) |
| 16:13.26 | Kraps | especially on Sapph 10 after a pretty nice naxx clear :/ |
| 16:16.19 | jadakren | only serious business when you have neuro-canula |
| 16:16.24 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:17.18 | jadakren | http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20090723ptan20090187159.php |
| 16:26.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Brunera (i=lasseb@colargol.tihlde.org) |
| 16:30.54 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@WoWUIDev/Cosmos/AnduinLothar) |
| 16:30.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 16:33.29 | laeg | ugh 3 hour ban |
| 16:33.41 | theorbtwo | What were *you* up to, eh? |
| 16:33.57 | laeg | "Details of incident: Inappropriate references towards other players' sexual orientation" |
| 16:33.57 | Lopeppeppy | Bad monkey. |
| 16:34.34 | theorbtwo | Wow. Now I wish I was an op, so I could give you a three hour ban from here, too. |
| 16:34.46 | laeg | keep wishing bub |
| 16:35.49 | laeg | he told a friend that he smelt of noob so i told him he smelt of gay, that's all |
| 16:37.14 | Lopeppeppy | *sigh* |
| 16:38.00 | *** join/#wowuidev jadakren (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-188-112.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 16:39.11 | Fisker | good thing you got banned |
| 16:42.23 | foxlit | What's this, moderation done right?! |
| 16:42.40 | foxlit | Outrageous. |
| 16:43.36 | Lopeppeppy | Accidents happen |
| 16:47.24 | cog|work | i'm with the gms imo... |
| 16:47.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (n=Sixen@173.25.22.158) |
| 16:47.56 | cog|work | hai Sixen1 |
| 16:48.37 | foxlit | Hm, I wonder if it's time update ffmpeg. |
| 16:48.55 | foxlit | My desktop encodes at something like twice the speed of my laptop :( |
| 16:49.56 | foxlit | </unrealisticexpectations> |
| 16:51.26 | foxlit | Disappointing, the laptop has newer everything. |
| 16:51.41 | alestane | But more memory/clock speed. also? |
| 16:52.13 | kd3 | ...the hell? "Driver left off with a warning after crashing SUV into cafe. News: Driver is five and a half. Fark: Driver is a dog [Amusing]" |
| 16:52.17 | foxlit | The desktop is a 2.66GHz C2D, the laptop is a 2.4GHz C2D |
| 16:52.54 | foxlit | Same amount of ram, different operating systems. |
| 16:52.58 | smcn | well if he's a dog that makes him 38. not that amazing |
| 16:54.10 | alestane | foxlit: Yeah, might want to look into other resource usage on the machines. |
| 16:54.59 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-088-077-197-204.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:56.45 | foxlit | alestane: They aren't doing anything else, so the only other thing I can think of is IO bandwidth. |
| 16:56.47 | durcyn | not all C2Ds are created equal |
| 16:57.10 | durcyn | E8000 > T7000 |
| 16:57.17 | alestane | Also, are the motherboards equivalent? |
| 16:57.27 | foxlit | Between a desktop and a laptop? :) |
| 16:57.34 | nevcairiel | ha |
| 16:58.05 | nevcairiel | power saving off and all? ;) |
| 16:58.15 | foxlit | While plugged in. |
| 16:58.26 | nevcairiel | that doesnt mean its off :P |
| 17:01.00 | foxlit | E6750 vs P8600 |
| 17:01.42 | nevcairiel | <3 E6750 |
| 17:04.16 | foxlit | It's an apples-to-oranges comparison in every respect, really. |
| 17:08.45 | Lunessa | wants a new computer at home. Something better than his 5 year old Dual Core. |
| 17:08.56 | *** join/#wowuidev DagmarX_ (i=dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 17:14.40 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (i=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 17:19.03 | kneeki | Lunessa: You can build a nice one for less than $800 (if you already have monitor/keyboard/mouse) |
| 17:19.46 | Lunessa | kneeki: Yeah, the tick is having the $800 in the budget. I might resort to ordering a MoBo one moth, then RAM, then a CPU... |
| 17:19.54 | Lopeppeppy | Am I heretic for NOT wanting President Obama to visit my local area? |
| 17:20.14 | kneeki | Lunessa: Well, I would save up enough to get the Mobo + CPU first, if you can reuse your ram |
| 17:20.27 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: No, not really. I'm sure everyone else who didn't vote for him likely feels the same way. |
| 17:20.27 | kneeki | replace each part by part reusing each one until it's replaced |
| 17:20.58 | Lunessa | kneeki: I would but I think when I replace the guts, I'm going to want to move up from PC2100 RAM anyway. |
| 17:21.20 | kneeki | Lunessa: Ah, getting an i7? |
| 17:21.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (n=TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 17:21.44 | Lunessa | Maybe. I expect the prices will come down to "something I can pay" in a few more months. |
| 17:21.54 | Lopeppeppy | It's not a matter of voting, Lunessa... We have little rural roads with no shoulder. If it's a public visit, I shudder to think of the traffic problems. I just want to be able to travel to and from my home. |
| 17:21.55 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:22.35 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: *nod* I've been in that position too. Nothing like a motorcade to destroy traffic. |
| 17:23.07 | kd3 | meh; I felt the same way when pres bush came by school before the election last year |
| 17:23.22 | kd3 | I just hunkered down in my apartment so I didn't have to deal with the traffic |
| 17:24.34 | ScytheBlade1 | It'd be neat to meet the president |
| 17:24.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, rather, /a/ president |
| 17:24.44 | ScytheBlade1 | But yeah, traffic sucks |
| 17:26.14 | Lopeppeppy | I literally would not be able to get to the highway, or get back home. There's only one way in, one way out. |
| 17:26.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkkuu (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:26.26 | Lopeppeppy | I'd work from home that day, guaranteed, and not leave the house at all. |
| 17:26.40 | Lunessa | I've never met a US President. I've been in the same building, but that's 'cause I was a sound/light tech in the 80s and the president (Regan) was speaking at a building we supported. |
| 17:27.18 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, I just don't buy into the hype of a president. Let them do their job, I'll do mine, I don't have to ooooh at them close up. |
| 17:27.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 17:28.14 | foxlit | ./configure |
| 17:28.15 | foxlit | No working C compiler found. |
| 17:28.20 | Lunessa | All I can say is President of the US has got to be the worst damned job in the world. |
| 17:28.23 | foxlit | is crit for 9001 damage. |
| 17:31.56 | Dagmar | Lunessa: Almost as bad as a forum moderator |
| 17:32.19 | foxlit | sigh. |
| 17:32.40 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Nah, at least forum moderators can quit and don't have 24/7 tv coverage of their blunders. |
| 17:32.58 | foxlit | GCC tells the configure script to get stuffed because the configure script incorrectly guesses machine architecture :/ |
| 17:33.44 | Lopeppeppy | And people taking their off the record statements from another news company and twittering them.... |
| 17:33.57 | Lopeppeppy | If I have to teach one more person to cut/paste/copy today I will SCREAM! |
| 17:34.35 | foxlit | as in make a lovely painting? |
| 17:35.17 | Lopeppeppy | With their entrails, on the wall of my office. |
| 17:35.28 | Lopeppeppy | It's like this is Stupid Week at Stupid University. |
| 17:35.36 | KarlKFI|work | peppy needs a day off |
| 17:36.09 | Dagmar | foxlit: You got lucky then. Most configure scripts can easily fool gcc. ;) |
| 17:36.22 | Lunessa | Hey, at least you didn't kick off a "This is the 'U4U'" advertising campaign today. |
| 17:36.29 | Kraps | i knew there was pizza here, i wasnt offered any :( |
| 17:36.38 | Dagmar | I've gotten into a couple of luridly detailed arguments with MythTV devs about how broken the CPU detection code in the libavcodec is |
| 17:36.42 | foxlit | Dagmar: this feels more frustrating than lucky :) |
| 17:38.02 | Lopeppeppy | U4U? Oh, Lunessa, I'm sorry. *hug* |
| 17:38.13 | Kraps | guess the pizza is ffor anyone not in accounting |
| 17:38.20 | Lopeppeppy | I kick off a social network site in January, it might be named "Skids". Skids. |
| 17:38.38 | Dagmar | It's okay. We buried the english language long ago. It can't feel any more pain. |
| 17:38.39 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: We're a freaking institution of higher learning. And we PAID a MARKETING FIRM to come up with that slogan based on "research.' |
| 17:38.52 | Dagmar | It's in a better place. |
| 17:39.29 | Lunessa | Honestly, it's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. |
| 17:39.42 | Lopeppeppy | Wow for being paid to be lame. That's a sweet job. |
| 17:40.17 | Kraps | Lunessa: higher learning vs higher learning that you fucking use in the real world, see? |
| 17:40.35 | Dagmar | Start circulating memos written like "Our flowers need your help. Feel free to write news headlines in SMS-speak and you can help fertilize their soil." |
| 17:40.37 | Lunessa | You know the saddest part? We're huge for teaching teachers. Our School of Education is enormous and we even offer a doctorate in the field. |
| 17:40.46 | Lopeppeppy | *shudder* |
| 17:41.32 | Lunessa | And we use "U4U" and "Putting U in Technology" for slogans. I die a little each day. |
| 17:42.04 | KarlKFI|work | lol @ "Putting U in Technology" |
| 17:42.05 | amro | but... there's no U in technology |
| 17:42.10 | KarlKFI|work | ^ |
| 17:42.32 | Lunessa | amro: Now you see why I want to kill our expensive marketing team. |
| 17:42.36 | *** join/#wowuidev joeymarx (n=hudlee@pool-72-85-145-151.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:43.40 | Lopeppeppy | U in technology, would that be the British spelling, like colour? |
| 17:44.16 | smcn | technoulougy |
| 17:44.33 | Dagmar | Nah |
| 17:44.45 | Dagmar | Their equal opportunity stuff for vowels doesn't reach that far |
| 17:46.26 | Lunessa | No it's supposed to be a clever play on You and University. It's STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. |
| 17:48.36 | KarlKFI|work | if there was a U in technology then it might be clever |
| 17:48.43 | KarlKFI|work | but there aint! |
| 17:49.42 | cbreak | Mages: Putting the mage into "Damage"! |
| 17:49.43 | KarlKFI|work | notices he gets more and more sleep deprived daily |
| 17:49.53 | KarlKFI|work | or nightly as the case may be |
| 17:49.55 | Lopeppeppy | Damn mage! |
| 17:50.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:50.29 | cog|work | whee! finally sending out offerings using the new online ordering system I made. (by "made" I mean "spent two near-sleepless weeks developing after being told they want to start taking credit cards in two days, and then they didn't even look at it for ~4 weeks after i finished") |
| 17:50.43 | Dagmar | lol |
| 17:50.45 | Seerah | cat adventures 2400 miles from home: http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/vid/15590006 |
| 17:51.06 | Seerah | yay, cog! |
| 17:51.26 | Dagmar | As per usual, if you're not a part of the solution, you're probably management |
| 17:51.46 | Lopeppeppy | Congrats on a successful dev, cogwheel! |
| 17:52.28 | KarlKFI|work | cog|work: sounds nice and secure |
| 17:52.38 | Lunessa | Well done Cog. |
| 17:53.33 | cog|work | KarlKFI|work: i no rite? >< |
| 17:54.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:54.19 | KarlKFI|work | it's ok, can't be as bad as the thousands of people usign a free open source beta php shopping cart |
| 17:54.49 | KarlKFI|work | beta + credit cards....smart |
| 17:55.42 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-7f7be155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:56.04 | KarlKFI|work | well, it COULD be that bad |
| 17:56.11 | KarlKFI|work | depends on hwo awesome you are |
| 17:57.29 | cog|work | nah, we're not even doing the actual processing on the site right now, just taking the submission and then we have to process them in the office. |
| 17:57.49 | Fisker | eats some food |
| 17:58.04 | Lunessa | Now that sounds really secure. Too many people with the potential for access to those digits. |
| 17:59.04 | KarlKFI|work | are they stored encrypted? |
| 17:59.41 | cog|work | KarlKFI|work: yes, but it's not like everyone in the office wouldn't have access to the hard copies anyway... |
| 17:59.41 | KarlKFI|work | with a user that only has write access? |
| 17:59.46 | cog|work | KarlKFI|work: yep |
| 17:59.56 | KarlKFI|work | good good |
| 18:00.19 | KarlKFI|work | that fixes most sploits |
| 18:01.10 | KarlKFI|work | protecting db info from office peeps aint my area |
| 18:01.25 | KarlKFI|work | that's a training and password security issue |
| 18:01.39 | cog|work | we only have 5 office peeps anyway and they all have a hand in order processing |
| 18:02.13 | KarlKFI|work | they all dont need the cc#'s tho, neh? |
| 18:02.38 | cog|work | everybody around here does every part of the process at one point or another thanks to vacations, etc. |
| 18:02.44 | KarlKFI|work | ahh |
| 18:03.11 | KarlKFI|work | hope you trust them |
| 18:04.23 | cog|work | just be glad i'm not telling you about the access database I inherited... Let's just leave it at everyone needing administrator accounts to even be able to load it :| |
| 18:04.36 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.238) |
| 18:05.08 | KarlKFI|work | ... |
| 18:05.19 | cog|work | yeah... i've got job security for a while... |
| 18:05.22 | cog|work | >< |
| 18:05.32 | DWSR | jnwhiteh |
| 18:06.01 | KarlKFI|work | i've got fairly good job security... now i just need more $ |
| 18:06.37 | cog|work | the current online ordering is a big workaround. I'm going to do a proper version for the next release which will reproduce much of our database in SQL. Hopefully then I can convince them to let me redo all the Access applications. |
| 18:06.41 | KarlKFI|work | looks for someone above him to knock off |
| 18:11.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:22.28 | Lopeppeppy | Back a while, upgrading my client... |
| 18:22.29 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 18:25.57 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (n=stolenle@d86-32-230-75.cust.tele2.at) |
| 18:26.13 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:26.14 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:27.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 18:28.31 | Torhal | http://www.comicsalliance.com/2009/09/14/the-21-awesomest-superhero-mods-for-my-little-pony/ |
| 18:30.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 18:30.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 18:36.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 18:36.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 18:39.03 | Lopeppeppy | Updating to Astra was easy. Someone ping me a whisper so I can see how they show up? |
| 18:39.23 | Lunessa | Torhal: I'm torn between thinking "That's awesome!" and "That's a little creepy." |
| 18:40.06 | Lopeppeppy | Yay, they work well. |
| 18:40.44 | DWSR | anyone else having problems with the new SBF? |
| 18:41.00 | DWSR | Options frame wont' come up, but it makes everything into the *config* mode. |
| 18:41.49 | Lunessa | "new" SBF? As in Satrina released an update recently? |
| 18:41.53 | DWSR | yes |
| 18:42.18 | Lunessa | Hrm, I haven't grabbed it yet. |
| 18:42.45 | Lopeppeppy | Neat. |
| 18:46.26 | Shirik | tackles Lopeppeppy |
| 18:47.05 | Lopeppeppy | is duly very tackled. But wait, didn't she eat Shirik earlier? |
| 18:47.21 | cog|work | whee 1st order received |
| 18:47.29 | Lopeppeppy | Yaaaay! |
| 18:47.30 | Shirik | cog|work is a stalker like Lopeppeppy |
| 18:47.45 | Lopeppeppy | Watch the ants process the fruits of your labor, Cog! |
| 18:47.48 | cog|work | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large Fisker |
| 18:48.35 | cog|work | Lopeppeppy: more like the fruit flies... they should be coming around soon now that we've got grape juice rotting in barrels... |
| 18:50.28 | Lopeppeppy | Buy your fly strips and hang them up EARLY this year, Cog. |
| 18:51.15 | Shirik | fly strips? |
| 18:51.18 | Lunessa | Mmmm... rotted fruit juice. |
| 18:52.17 | cog|work | eeew those bugs were nasty... They weren't flies though, and they were only around teh barrel rooms. luckily we're in the new office now which is about as far from the barrel rooms as you can get in this building |
| 18:54.54 | alestane | Okay, win... |
| 18:55.12 | alestane | "My name is Prince Philip of Argonath; I've been a frog for six weeks." |
| 18:55.17 | alestane | "HI PHILLIP!" |
| 18:55.26 | Dagmar | heh |
| 18:55.36 | Dagmar | Myth-Anon? |
| 18:56.03 | Lopeppeppy | There are support groups for that. |
| 18:56.32 | alestane | The coartoon title is "The Enchanted Pond Support Group", indeed |
| 18:56.49 | Dagmar | Hm... support groups. Never good |
| 18:57.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (n=faggotry@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 18:58.50 | Kraps | Lopeppeppy: If shrek 3 is any indication, fairy tale characters need some serious, years-long rehab and detox |
| 18:59.12 | Lopeppeppy | Shriek is not a good example! |
| 19:00.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra_ (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 19:01.18 | Lunessa | Kraps: Pinnochio in that film had some gender-identity issues. |
| 19:03.50 | Shirik | :/ |
| 19:03.53 | Shirik | Stop saying Shrek |
| 19:03.56 | Shirik | it's confusing |
| 19:04.30 | Kraps | i dont remember too many details but i do remember Cinderella being OCD |
| 19:04.35 | Lunessa | We'll stay up late swapping manly stories, and in the morning... I'm makin' WAFFLES. |
| 19:06.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (n=Taroven@HW-ESR1-208-102-197-5.fuse.net) |
| 19:07.27 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm. I really need breakfast in bed. |
| 19:08.08 | nicoli_s | thatd be nice |
| 19:08.23 | nicoli_s | id do it for my gf but she always wakes up at the same time as me |
| 19:10.09 | Shirik | I swear |
| 19:10.19 | Shirik | every student has given me a different spelling of my last name on their reports |
| 19:10.31 | Shirik | and one of them found out my middle name somehow... |
| 19:10.41 | Lopeppeppy | Your name is neither common nor easy. |
| 19:10.48 | Dagmar | Was that a female student? |
| 19:10.51 | Lopeppeppy | But it's not common for students to get the middle name either, that's weird. |
| 19:11.31 | Kraps | Dagmar: what would that imply? |
| 19:11.33 | Dagmar | Ah but it's stalky |
| 19:11.41 | Lunessa | Shirik: Heh, we have an easy to spell first name, but you'd be shocked at how many inventive spellings I've seen of it. |
| 19:11.44 | Dagmar | ...which you know, under the right conditions, can be useful |
| 19:14.47 | alestane | Why did interface designers get this idea that it would be useful to make text selection snap to word boundaries? |
| 19:14.59 | Shirik | yeah |
| 19:15.01 | Shirik | I can't stand it |
| 19:15.17 | Shirik | it's a nice feature sometimes, but there needs to be a way to override it |
| 19:15.20 | Shirik | or not be the default |
| 19:16.26 | Lunessa | Ugh - I hate it. I hate when I want to grab a piece of text, but the selection grabs more, or grabs surrounding spaces/characters. It makes me long for PERL's CHOMP feature. |
| 19:17.36 | Dagmar | <3 <3 <3 |
| 19:18.18 | Kraps | 3>3>3> |
| 19:19.31 | Shirik | what is that |
| 19:19.50 | alestane | Smriking devils, maybe? |
| 19:20.29 | Lopeppeppy | Backwards lovin'. |
| 19:20.43 | Fisker | slaps nicoli_s around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:20.44 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:20.45 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:21.03 | Lopeppeppy | ~Fisker ++ |
| 19:21.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host217-44-191-254.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:21.17 | Shirik | oh snap |
| 19:21.21 | Shirik | Fisker just got ++ed |
| 19:21.48 | Kraps | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large smriking devils |
| 19:23.14 | *** part/#wowuidev boshi23 (n=chris@c-75-75-186-99.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:23.48 | KarlKFI|work | boobs hanging out a v-neck? |
| 19:23.55 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^ (i=as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 19:24.02 | Shirik | lua> (890-820)/820 |
| 19:24.03 | lua_bot | Shirik: 0.085365853658537 |
| 19:26.44 | Kraps | KarlKFI|work: im interested, tell me more |
| 19:27.19 | KarlKFI|work | 3> |
| 19:27.33 | Lunessa | Pretty much all you have to do to get most guys to show interest is pepper your conversation or presentation with the word or images of boobs. |
| 19:28.12 | Dagmar | Not me |
| 19:28.20 | KarlKFI|work | tough ona mixed audience tho |
| 19:28.21 | Shirik | are you a eunich? |
| 19:28.24 | Kraps | and thats... bad? |
| 19:28.35 | Dagmar | If a girl mentions that she's a unix geek who runs Slackware I'm all over it tho |
| 19:28.48 | Dagmar | Shockingly, this has actually happened. |
| 19:29.01 | Dagmar | The girl in question has a history of beating her boyfriends apparently. |
| 19:29.05 | KarlKFI|work | my girl quotes star trek with me, so i'm covered |
| 19:29.10 | Dagmar | I'm still trying to decide how I feel about that. heh |
| 19:29.56 | Dagmar | I can withstand a domestic assault or two if it means we'll breed true |
| 19:29.57 | Lunessa | Dagmar: I work in IT and a large number of our techs are women. I love my job. |
| 19:30.33 | A-KO | programming? |
| 19:30.33 | A-KO | we've got a few Indian female programmers |
| 19:30.33 | A-KO | no women in our actual IT department though |
| 19:31.07 | Dagmar | Yeah I had hopes to find someone here that might qualify risking dipping pens in inkwells and so forth. |
| 19:31.09 | Dagmar | No such luck. |
| 19:31.40 | Lunessa | A-KO: Most of the hard core programmers are men. A few DBAs and "Content Programmers (aka script and flash monkeys)" are women. About half of our service techs are women. |
| 19:31.52 | Dagmar | THey did have a swedish girl here for awhile, but she was working in HR. |
| 19:31.55 | Dagmar | So... HAHAHA no. |
| 19:32.17 | Dagmar | There's this icelandic girl in astrophysics tho. :) |
| 19:32.19 | KarlKFI|work | we have some hidious women coders here at work, yes. |
| 19:32.28 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Some of the ones I refer to above are very attractive. Even if they weren't into the same things I'm into. |
| 19:32.33 | KarlKFI|work | and a bunch of old women in management |
| 19:32.45 | KarlKFI|work | saggy boobs everywher! |
| 19:32.49 | Dagmar | Lunessa: The ones here are all married |
| 19:33.01 | Dagmar | Or, you know, unmarried for good reason |
| 19:33.41 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Not here, but only a few are "unattached" - and of those, I have either a) not a chance in hell or b) wouldn't approach because "pen. company ink" etc. |
| 19:34.31 | Kraps | "pen. company ink"? |
| 19:35.10 | KarlKFI|work | google |
| 19:35.18 | Kraps | no time |
| 19:35.26 | Kraps | like a higher up? |
| 19:35.26 | KarlKFI|work | then stop using irc |
| 19:35.33 | Dagmar | Kraps: Never heard the expression "Don't dip your pen in the company inkwell"? |
| 19:35.43 | Lunessa | "Don't dip your pen into company ink" "Don't shit where you eat" |
| 19:35.55 | Lunessa | "Don't date where you work" |
| 19:36.07 | Dagmar | "Riding the company bike is fun!" |
| 19:36.29 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Up until the chain breaks and you have to replace a flat... |
| 19:36.46 | Dagmar | euw |
| 19:37.10 | Kraps | KarlKFI|work: irc is quicker so :p |
| 19:37.26 | KarlKFI|work | !google pen. company ink |
| 19:37.27 | batbot | KarlKFI|work: Urban Dictionary: dipping your pen in company ink <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dipping+your+pen+in+company+ink> |
| 19:37.33 | KarlKFI|work | l2irc then |
| 19:38.24 | ccox | "don't fish off the company pier" |
| 19:38.38 | ccox | "don't get your bread and your meat at the same store" |
| 19:38.47 | KarlKFI|work | >.< |
| 19:39.10 | Dagmar | I wanna say "jew" but it would be wrong |
| 19:40.19 | Kraps | Dagmar: good move |
| 19:40.35 | Kraps | else ima fire mah lazer |
| 19:41.03 | Lunessa | I just make it a rule for happy living/working that I don't date anyone who works where I do - especially in the same department. It would be different (I suppose) if they worked in another building, doing things totally unrealted to my work. |
| 19:41.34 | Dagmar | You gotta admit that's a rather specific version of the axiom tho |
| 19:41.45 | Dagmar | Kosher prohibition against mixing of meat and so on |
| 19:43.41 | ccox | well,, the lady who keeps telling me that is a jewish mother (and admin at the office) |
| 19:43.49 | Fisker | i would've raged if it wasn't for the trade system for bop items |
| 19:43.54 | Lunessa | Well, keeping to food laws is more than just a jewish tradition. |
| 19:44.58 | Lopeppeppy | It's good common sense for staying healthy! |
| 19:45.17 | Lopeppeppy | That said, I'd date a guy wherever I found him, I like to fish in odd spaces. *weg* |
| 19:46.34 | Lunessa | http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1791517 - #3 |
| 19:47.49 | Fisker | I WOULD'VE RAGED |
| 19:48.21 | Lopeppeppy | Mom, WTF! |
| 19:49.44 | Fisker | i have no idea what a dry spell being broken is |
| 19:49.53 | Fisker | i presume it has something to do with getting laid though |
| 19:50.03 | Lunessa | Fisker: Probably because you still haven't broken yours. |
| 19:50.13 | Fisker | QQ |
| 19:50.25 | Fisker | or probably because english isn't my motherlanguage |
| 19:50.34 | Fisker | or first language whatevar |
| 19:53.17 | Kraps | motherlanguage |
| 19:53.25 | Lunessa | Fisker: Couldn't resist - I had to take the shot. |
| 19:54.09 | Kraps | Fisker: you german? |
| 19:54.34 | Shirik | lol @ #3 |
| 19:54.59 | Fisker | naw Kraps |
| 19:55.01 | Fisker | i'm so danish |
| 19:55.33 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@wireless-128-62-92-189.public.utexas.edu) |
| 19:55.42 | Kraps | you still have a mutersprach thing right? |
| 19:58.03 | Lunessa | He's Danish. Those guys have to learn a second language. No one uses theirs. |
| 19:58.20 | Kraps | hehe |
| 19:58.53 | Lopeppeppy | Office politics suck donkey. |
| 20:01.59 | Shirik | mutersprach! |
| 20:03.12 | alestane | "Let's see...you want 400 temp, physically fit, climbing abilities a plus, able to swing heavy objects, and with a penchant for anti-social behavior... |
| 20:03.39 | Thunder_Child | i think donkey sucking s a profession in mexico.... |
| 20:03.55 | Lopeppeppy | It's a profession here at We Suck U. |
| 20:03.59 | Lopeppeppy | *grin* |
| 20:04.13 | Shirik | in soviet russia, we sucks you? |
| 20:04.27 | Lopeppeppy | Wii? |
| 20:04.50 | foxlit | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/11/10901330354-nerf--buff-x.html |
| 20:05.27 | foxlit | The thread title is <Nerf / Buff x>, someone isn't doing output escaping. |
| 20:05.32 | Shirik | lol |
| 20:05.48 | Shirik | XSS time! |
| 20:05.58 | foxlit | We just have to find a cooperative blue. |
| 20:06.29 | Shirik | we will just have to kidnap one when they come in |
| 20:08.09 | Shirik | um |
| 20:08.24 | Shirik | what is the name of the tense/mood used for commands like "Run to the car" |
| 20:09.05 | Shirik | imperative |
| 20:09.05 | Shirik | nm |
| 20:09.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:10.16 | Kraps | wat |
| 20:22.05 | foxlit | score. |
| 20:22.16 | foxlit | sacrifices a goat to the compiler gods. |
| 20:22.53 | foxlit | (Built a 64-bit binary for ffmpeg and related junk) |
| 20:22.58 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 20:26.19 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (i=as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 20:28.09 | foxlit | And now my laptop encodes things at the same speed as the desktop. |
| 20:36.13 | Lunessa | foxlit: Poor goat |
| 20:38.30 | Fisker | slaps foxlit around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:38.32 | Fisker | hey foxlit |
| 20:38.35 | foxlit | Lunessa: meh, it was a goat. |
| 20:38.37 | Fisker | why so srs Shirik ? |
| 20:38.57 | Shirik | always @(posedge clk) |
| 20:38.57 | Shirik | begin |
| 20:38.57 | Shirik | dispActive <= 4'b1110 /* 3 left ones are always off */ | !player // right one on only during p2 turn |
| 20:39.01 | Lunessa | foxlit: So... gyros at your place then? |
| 20:39.05 | Shirik | and that's why the insert button should not be so close to enter |
| 20:43.18 | Lunessa | I need direct thought control over my input. |
| 20:43.27 | Zhinjio | Off Topic: If anyone is interested in a for-fun (not for money) Fantasy Hockey League, please PM me, and I'll get you an invite. You may now return to your regularly scheduled nonsense. |
| 20:47.11 | Lunessa | never really *got* fantasy sports. |
| 20:48.35 | *** join/#wowuidev JerekDain (n=JerekDai@71-82-127-149.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 20:49.12 | Arrowmaster | sweet a 250gb limited editon xbox360 for modern warfare2, i should cash out some curse reward points so i can buy one |
| 20:50.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@69.73.16.202) |
| 20:50.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 20:51.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Rabbitbunny (n=Rabbitbu@unaffiliated/rabbitbunny) |
| 20:51.58 | Rabbitbunny | Does FuBar still work? |
| 20:52.07 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 20:52.11 | Rabbitbunny | namely, when I load 3.6, I see nothing. |
| 20:52.31 | Arrowmaster | you probably need to install some libraries seperately |
| 20:52.38 | Rabbitbunny | Oh. |
| 20:52.40 | Rabbitbunny | Thanks. |
| 20:54.37 | *** join/#wowuidev gliterati (n=davey@d75-153-38-205.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 21:00.40 | Rabbitbunny | Man, where is it going to tell me what I need to do? It's failing silently. |
| 21:01.17 | Arrowmaster | you need to enable lua errors then |
| 21:01.24 | Arrowmaster | it will never fail silently |
| 21:01.55 | Rabbitbunny | Oh, Thanks. |
| 21:02.30 | mikma | http://matin.maapallo.org/kuvatuuppari/ctrlaltdel/1341/20090916.jpg |
| 21:02.49 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 21:03.13 | foxlit | Hm, silly advertising |
| 21:03.33 | foxlit | "How high is your IQ?" and they show you a red-green colorblindness test with the number 74. |
| 21:04.26 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/jep_et_ole_alykas_jos_olet_varisokea.jpg |
| 21:04.31 | mikma | foxlit: there you go |
| 21:05.32 | foxlit | http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/103/colourblindiq.jpg << hah, it's global. |
| 21:05.38 | Lunessa | I want some damned shaman-only +WIN gems |
| 21:07.06 | alestane | "Run away! It's a coconut ent! Run away!" |
| 21:09.06 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/189372667 |
| 21:10.04 | nicoli_s | given up on linking translationparty already adys? |
| 21:10.58 | Adys | nicoli_s: http://translationparty.com/#4211916 |
| 21:15.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:17.01 | kdtresh | http://translationparty.com/#4212032 |
| 21:18.17 | Kraps | http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/ModernTube-Young-Phillies-fan-rejects-dad-s-fou?urn=mlb,189941 |
| 21:21.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 21:21.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 21:26.23 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 21:26.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 21:26.45 | Lunessa | Anyone fooled around with this - http://www.voicechatter.org/ - yet? |
| 21:28.13 | nicoli_s | soooo....sloww..... |
| 21:33.31 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 21:38.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@pool-96-248-0-53.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:38.36 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@rrcs-71-42-217-66.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:47.50 | bleeter | http://www.yooouuutuuube.com/v/?rows=36&cols=36&id=pAwR6w2TgxY&startZoom=1 |
| 21:49.12 | Rabbitbunny | Arrowmaster: Ya know, Telling me that the updated version were on curse, and that WoWI had the old error-ridden ones... That would have been nice. |
| 21:49.27 | Rabbitbunny | just figured that out, manually. |
| 21:49.55 | Lunessa | You know, taking responsibility for your own addon use, that would be nice. |
| 21:50.09 | mikma | lolwned |
| 21:50.24 | Rabbitbunny | .. |
| 21:50.32 | Rabbitbunny | He's one of the devs for it. |
| 21:51.24 | Arrowmaster | one of the wowi mods keeps ckks stuff updated on wowi, Seerah i think |
| 21:51.40 | Rabbitbunny | it's like four months out of date. |
| 21:52.26 | gliterati | can we make a new saying instead of "qq" call it "crying like glen beck"? or its a bit cumbersome |
| 21:52.39 | gliterati | CLGB is not bad i guess. |
| 21:53.13 | KarlKFI|work | glenbecking? |
| 21:53.26 | gliterati | thats good too |
| 21:53.47 | mikma | stop gliterating |
| 21:54.06 | KarlKFI|work | oligarh? |
| 21:54.48 | KarlKFI|work | nah, lets nto immortalize him in slang |
| 21:55.23 | gliterati | nono lets he really blubbers its so funny |
| 21:56.52 | Rabbitbunny | Hmm, the crappy part. What would you name an addon that watches for when you pickup gear, and autoequips if upgrade? UpgradeFu? |
| 21:57.09 | foxlit | clowsuit. |
| 21:57.16 | foxlit | clownsuit. |
| 21:57.32 | Kraps | 3 minutes of awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbl-vMN2gzo |
| 21:57.36 | KarlKFI|work | AutoEquipUpgrade |
| 21:58.04 | Rabbitbunny | Good one. |
| 22:04.40 | kdtresh | i like clownsuit |
| 22:06.03 | Lunessa | Can I have my three minutes back please? |
| 22:06.56 | mikma | lunessa: unpossible. |
| 22:07.16 | Lunessa | mikma: This is why reality blows. |
| 22:07.41 | mikma | yeap |
| 22:11.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Dereka (n=Hello@87.117.3.97) |
| 22:18.33 | Adys | http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2009-09-16-n28.html |
| 22:18.34 | Adys | awesome |
| 22:18.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:18.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:20.40 | Kraps | Lunessa: are you sure you want that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp9UD3DK_XE |
| 22:23.06 | Lunessa | kraps - damnit |
| 22:23.30 | *** part/#wowuidev Dereka (n=Hello@87.117.3.97) |
| 22:23.37 | kdtresh | geico can go to hell |
| 22:23.47 | kdtresh | or at least get a new ad agency |
| 22:25.00 | Kraps | kdtresh: they have sucked of late |
| 22:25.22 | Kraps | googly eyes is the worst thing ever |
| 22:27.02 | alestane | Kraps: And thus, the universe comes to an end. |
| 22:28.37 | Lopeppeppy | Universe can bite me, that's what I say. |
| 22:29.22 | alestane | Ohai Peppy, didn't see you there. |
| 22:30.52 | Lopeppeppy | Heya. I just got home from work and stopped trying to kill things, so I logged back in. |
| 22:31.07 | alestane | I see...what were you trying to kill? |
| 22:31.14 | alestane | People who can't copy and paste? |
| 22:31.55 | Lopeppeppy | work politics and backbiting. I hate working with other women. |
| 22:32.05 | alestane | Is working with men any better? |
| 22:32.56 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, the politics are quite different, actually. |
| 22:33.31 | alestane | It's things like your experiences training people on things like basic computer skills that assures me that the "solution" this guy suggests in his last post won't actually work: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19820325093&sid=1 |
| 22:35.21 | Lunessa | alestane: I notice his guild is recruiting. I'm totally sure raiding/guilding with him would be so pleasant that I would achieve enlightenment and nirvana. |
| 22:36.13 | Lopeppeppy | That thread is no longer on the first page, correct? |
| 22:36.20 | Lunessa | Frankly, he's the kind of customer who asks for X and then complains when it doesn't come with Y, Z and AA - and refuses to pay. |
| 22:36.45 | alestane | Lunessa: Nirvana is freedom from all desire and suffering, as I understand it; that guild might indeed make you give up all hope. |
| 22:36.53 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: It isn't. |
| 22:37.02 | alestane | Second or third by now. |
| 22:37.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=Adium@li89-205.members.linode.com) |
| 22:37.30 | Lunessa | alestane: Perhaps by ingestion of highly euphoric and fatally toxic chemicals? |
| 22:37.42 | nicoli_s | highly euphoric? where? |
| 22:38.02 | Lopeppeppy | I'm not going to reply then, let it die a death. |
| 22:38.20 | alestane | I was tempted to tell him that the default UI is in fact infinitely customizable, with no additional software required beyond a basic text editor. |
| 22:38.22 | Lunessa | nicoli_s: Many toxins give you a serious high as they kill you. :P |
| 22:39.02 | nicoli_s | most of the stuff that gives you a high kills you :P |
| 22:39.21 | Lopeppeppy | <nasty comment not entered, about idiots on the forum> |
| 22:39.45 | Lunessa | nicoli_s: Hey three levels of toxicity - stimulant, depressant, fatal. :P |
| 22:40.14 | nicoli_s | i likes them first two :P |
| 22:41.00 | Lunessa | needs more stimulants. |
| 22:41.33 | nicoli_s | try harvesting adrenaline from someone else's brain, i hear thatll do the trick |
| 22:41.47 | gliterati | u can just do a cat i heard. |
| 22:41.57 | Lunessa | amyl? No thanks. |
| 22:42.19 | Lopeppeppy | Eat more chocolate |
| 22:44.02 | nicoli_s | or just freebase it |
| 22:45.38 | kdtresh | adrenochrome? |
| 22:45.54 | nicoli_s | mmmm |
| 22:46.03 | nicoli_s | i love that movie |
| 22:46.31 | Lopeppeppy | Chocolate rules the worls |
| 22:46.42 | nicoli_s | loves some chocolate |
| 22:46.52 | alestane | Must go pow-wow with game developers now, catch you all later. |
| 22:46.53 | Lopeppeppy | World even. This gimp left hand is going to drive me spare. |
| 22:47.08 | nicoli_s | missing some fingers? |
| 22:49.33 | Lunessa | nicoli_s: I re-read "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" about once a year. I glean something new from it nearly every time. |
| 22:51.55 | kdtresh | i can't help but read that whole book in johnny depp's voice |
| 22:52.47 | Lunessa | kdtresh: Have you ever listened to Hunter S. Thompson's voice? Johnny Dep did a reasonable facsimile of it for the movie. |
| 22:53.23 | mikma | we cant stop here |
| 22:53.30 | nicoli_s | i need to read the book, i just watch the movie alot |
| 22:55.02 | kdtresh | i had never seen hunter when i watched the movie |
| 22:55.12 | kdtresh | then i saw him on conan and was blown away at how good depp was |
| 22:55.57 | kdtresh | johnny followed him around for like a month, apparently he was taking good notes |
| 22:56.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Cidwel (i=533536b7@gateway/web/freenode/x-emxzcmydfofezgvx) |
| 22:56.40 | Cidwel | hello all |
| 22:59.02 | kdtresh | hello |
| 22:59.48 | Cidwel | I have a question. If I want to change a fontstring in a XML with something saved in a variable, does the variable needs to be global? |
| 23:00.13 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
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| 23:00.53 | Cidwel | omg so a local variable works inside the whole addon |
| 23:01.02 | jnwhiteh | no, just within that file. |
| 23:01.03 | ScytheBlade1 | .... kind of |
| 23:01.19 | ScytheBlade1 | within scope would be the better answer, but then I'd have to define scope |
| 23:01.25 | Cidwel | so, a lua file and a XML file are different |
| 23:01.27 | Lopeppeppy | nicoli_s, I have a gimpy thumb this week that is making it hard to type. |
| 23:01.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes |
| 23:01.30 | jnwhiteh | :P |
| 23:01.42 | Cidwel | gawg... |
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| 23:03.00 | Cidwel | mygosh, I'm describing the whole bible in a global variable format :s |
| 23:04.48 | Lunessa | ... that's not a good thing. Think globally, act within local variable scope. |
| 23:05.18 | Cidwel | but i want my xml baaaaawww |
| 23:05.56 | ScytheBlade1 | You can still use your xml... |
| 23:06.06 | ScytheBlade1 | fontString:SetText(whatever) |
| 23:06.09 | ScytheBlade1 | is perfectly valid |
| 23:07.23 | mikma | bible, in wow? |
| 23:08.45 | Lunessa | I think the point was length of text, not actually the King James version. |
| 23:17.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nnnnnnnn@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
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| 23:19.37 | mikma | how is the game buying from steam happening? |
| 23:19.46 | mikma | do you get the serial right away? |
| 23:21.41 | Zyn | yeah, when you start a game you get a popup box showing you the serial |
| 23:21.51 | Zyn | (if it requires it) |
| 23:23.21 | mikma | basicly, i buy the game from steam, i get a link to download and serial..? |
| 23:24.24 | Zyn | you download the game through the client, and when it's done, you just launch the game and it will show you the serial-key for your account in a popup-box in one of the corners |
| 23:24.40 | mikma | thats awesome |
| 23:25.01 | mikma | concidering to buy left 4 dead, eventho v2 is on the way (2 months) |
| 23:25.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (n=Taroven@HW-ESR1-208-102-197-5.fuse.net) |
| 23:25.37 | Thunder_Child | one of the more rote and boring games |
| 23:26.16 | mikma | atleast its something to do while i'm bored |
| 23:27.01 | Lunessa | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/the-150-space-camera-mit-students-beat-nasa-on-beer-money-budget/ |
| 23:28.03 | Kraps | EU wants a ghostcrawler http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=7701050350&sid=1&pageNo=1 |
| 23:28.47 | ZorbaTHut | mikma, in the vast majority of cases, you just download the game and it works |
| 23:28.54 | ZorbaTHut | I've never had to enter a serial number for anything |
| 23:29.18 | ArrowmasterClass | mikma: steam only games like L4D dont have serials |
| 23:29.43 | mikma | extremely tempting |
| 23:29.50 | mikma | l4d is only 30 bucks |
| 23:30.16 | ArrowmasterClass | i got it when it was like 50% off |
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| 23:50.22 | NeoTron | wow this looks like an awesome game. Pity I missed it when it was fresh and new - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rigs:_Over_the_Road_Racing |
| 23:51.22 | WobWork | NeoTron: reminds me of that awesome Stallone movie! |
| 23:51.39 | WobWork | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_the_Top |
| 23:52.58 | Lopeppeppy | I miss Elvira, Mistress of the Night. She'd have laughed her ass off. |
| 23:53.32 | WobWork | "Over the Top is a 1987 dramatic film starring Sylvester Stallone, produced and directed by Menahem Golan about a long haul truck driver who tries to win back his alienated son while becoming a champion arm wrestler. " |
| 23:53.36 | WobWork | says it all, really =P |
| 23:54.18 | Lunessa | So many bad movies were made in the 80s. |
| 23:54.29 | NeoTron | WobWork: so much information right there |
| 23:54.32 | WobWork | and so many good ones! |
| 23:55.14 | Lunessa | Just go look at the kinds of movie trailers hollywood used to make. They told the whole story in the trailer - it was lame. |
| 23:55.35 | NeoTron | like The Neverending Story |
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| 23:55.57 | mikma | neotron: awesome game that big rigs |
| 23:56.24 | NeoTron | what's amazing is that it was released. at all. |
| 23:57.10 | Lopeppeppy | They'll put any shit on the shelves. |
| 23:57.11 | Adys | http://whythatsdelightful.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/weeee40912.jpg?w=450&h=1554 |
