| 00:00.12 | Shadowed | hah |
| 00:00.13 | Amarande | btw, what exactly are they suggesting is going to happen to wetlands? |
| 00:00.27 | Shadowed | probably won't be as wet |
| 00:00.28 | Amarande | wonders if this will SIGNIFICANTLY impact Horde leveling, in particular |
| 00:00.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 00:00.41 | ZorbaTHut | dude, Catalysm will significantly impact *all* leveling |
| 00:00.43 | Amarande | because if Deathwing is rising from Grim Batol, I imagine Wetlands will become a rather high level area |
| 00:00.45 | ZorbaTHut | this is not "we're going to change some zones" |
| 00:00.46 | Lunessa | alestane: Cool people rule |
| 00:00.52 | Amarande | Zorba: I'm particularly thinking of the 35-45 range, though |
| 00:00.54 | ZorbaTHut | this is "we might not change a few zones, but overall, everything is changing" |
| 00:00.55 | Amarande | when you would go to Badlands |
| 00:01.08 | Amarande | and thinking if you can EVEN GET TO BADLANDS AT ALL reasonably at 35-40 with the changes |
| 00:01.08 | Shadowed | Amarande, pretend that 1-60 never existed |
| 00:01.11 | NeoTron | Fighting the titans directly, at full power, seems like a rather hopeless endevour. I mean they wipe out and create life on whole worlds.. |
| 00:01.15 | ZorbaTHut | I wouldn't really worry about it. If it's a problem they can just reassign some other zone. |
| 00:01.16 | Mikk | Amarande: well we already know that azshara will become a low level zone |
| 00:01.17 | Shadowed | now pretend that they are doing a new expansion that adds completely new 1-60 content |
| 00:01.27 | Shadowed | That is basically Cataclysm |
| 00:01.37 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, even with ilvl844 gear? ;) |
| 00:01.54 | Mikk | need over 9000 |
| 00:02.00 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: they can look at you and you die :P |
| 00:02.01 | Shirik | ~dict positiving |
| 00:02.07 | Shirik | ^ Dolby |
| 00:02.11 | Shadowed | The act of being positive |
| 00:02.13 | Lunessa | Hey - we're going to get to fight Ranaros at his FULL POWER! Woo! This time, it's not too soon! |
| 00:02.13 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, and you look at them, and they die, as does their entire family :) |
| 00:02.27 | NeoTron | of course, suspension of belief and all, but lore wise actually defeating a fully powered up old god or a titan is unreasonble, relatively speaking |
| 00:02.33 | ZorbaTHut | one thing that amuses me: if WoW *does* continue forever, eventually someone is going to solo Flame Leviathan without a vehicle. |
| 00:02.36 | Amarande | Yeah, Badlands is going to have to change levels. |
| 00:02.41 | Lunessa | NeoTron: They don't even have to look. They can just sort of imagine you and you die, or cease to exist. |
| 00:02.58 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, I dunno. I mean, immediately, yes, it's kind of unreasonable |
| 00:03.03 | Amarande | This is a definite, if Wetlands is being ruined up by Grim Batol uprising. |
| 00:03.07 | ZorbaTHut | but in four or five expansions, who knows |
| 00:03.10 | Amarande | There is a very simple reason for this: |
| 00:03.14 | NeoTron | but then again, Deathwing himself is rather hard opponent. But I'm of the belief that mere mortals killing Malygos is also unreasonble |
| 00:03.14 | Amarande | well, two |
| 00:03.21 | Amarande | * Badlands is mainly a Horde questing zone (there being no alliance outpost) |
| 00:03.26 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:03.27 | ZorbaTHut | maybe we get to the point where Azeroth is the hub of a galactic war, and we're just frantically building equipment imbued with the raw primal power of creation itself |
| 00:03.29 | NeoTron | but deathwing is hell of a lot more pwn than recently insane Malygos |
| 00:03.40 | Amarande | * There is NO WAY to get to Badlands at 35 in any reasonable manner as horde if Wetlands becomes a high level zone. |
| 00:03.48 | ZorbaTHut | put on this breastplate and you, yourself, will become a veritable god |
| 00:03.55 | Amarande | Because, really, there's only 3 routes to get there. |
| 00:04.11 | Amarande | One being through the Blackrock Mountain areas (but you need to be in the high 40s early 50s to survive the trek) |
| 00:04.14 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, rewrite the *entire world* |
| 00:04.14 | Mikk | Getting to badlands is wonky enough as is now |
| 00:04.18 | ZorbaTHut | now there are more ways to get there, if needed |
| 00:04.23 | Amarande | One being through Ironforge (which you need to be alliance to get through in one piece) |
| 00:04.36 | Amarande | And the other being through Wetlands (which is the only way Horde can really do it at the level now) |
| 00:04.43 | Amarande | Ergo, Badlands becomes a high level zone. |
| 00:04.48 | Mikk | Bah |
| 00:04.49 | Amarande | And we'll have to use Searing Gorge for mithril. :) |
| 00:04.52 | Mikk | They can easily add a zeppelin |
| 00:04.53 | Mikk | Tadaa |
| 00:04.54 | NeoTron | the only really bad thing with this expansion is, honestly.. |
| 00:05.07 | NeoTron | "ok level 1 to 60 was awesome!!!" and "wtf, outlands - that sucks" |
| 00:05.08 | Mikk | Or have a mountainrange break down |
| 00:05.25 | Mikk | NeoTron: and northrend won't? =P |
| 00:05.28 | theorb | Or make a tunnel through it. |
| 00:05.35 | Amarande | Mikk: Northrend is newer than Outland |
| 00:05.46 | NeoTron | northrend too but yeah it's a few years newer |
| 00:05.48 | Amarande | If Azeroth gets a total revamp, the aging of Outland by comparison to the rest of the content will show glaringly |
| 00:05.55 | Mikk | and northrend won't be old in one year? =P |
| 00:05.56 | NeoTron | and a bit better and both zones will be superior when you can fly there |
| 00:05.56 | Lunessa | Seriously - old world will be hardly t all like it is now. the flow of zones will completely change. The diagrams they showed at BlizzCon made that VERY evident |
| 00:06.14 | Amarande | Granted, you can TECHNICALLY get to 70 without actually visiting Outland. |
| 00:06.17 | Amarande | But it's a real pain in the ass to do. |
| 00:06.40 | Mikk | Mhm. Fight mobs outside Karazhan for fun and profit. |
| 00:06.41 | NeoTron | level 1-60 fun for tourguide btw |
| 00:06.42 | Amarande | You basically have to keep running Scholo, Strat, and Dire Maul until you reach 65-66, and then start killing the mobs near Kara to 68-70 and then you can hit Northrend, but that's really damn tedious. |
| 00:07.00 | Amarande | Maybe not SO tedious as before, since you can easily reach 62-63 on questing the 55-60 areas alone |
| 00:07.01 | Amarande | but still. |
| 00:07.27 | Shadowed | eh? |
| 00:07.31 | Shadowed | Outlands is really not that bad |
| 00:07.32 | Amarande | 'course, if people end up hating outland that much, people might do that :) |
| 00:07.37 | Amarande | Shadowed: yeah, outland isn't all that bad |
| 00:07.38 | Amarande | except hellfire |
| 00:07.41 | Amarande | hellfire is crappy :) |
| 00:07.43 | Mikk | outland will have "aww the good old days" value in a year |
| 00:07.45 | Mikk | you'll see |
| 00:07.46 | Shadowed | hellfire is fine too :p |
| 00:07.55 | Amarande | it's weird. netherstorm is at least as wastelandy |
| 00:07.59 | Amarande | and I love that zone |
| 00:08.03 | Amarande | but I hate hellfire |
| 00:08.07 | Amarande | I think a lot of it is the aggro situation |
| 00:08.24 | Shadowed | the map is designed really weirdly in Hellfire which makes it suck at 58-59 |
| 00:08.31 | Shadowed | but overall the quests are fine |
| 00:08.37 | theorbtwo | Hm, I haven't found outland to be bad at all... though, come to think of it, I am going back and leveling my herbilisim, and just started a new undead mage... |
| 00:08.44 | Amarande | yeah, at 58-59 it gets tedious because you aggro everything |
| 00:08.56 | Amarande | I usually go to outland around 62 now though |
| 00:09.08 | Amarande | of course, that's got to do with my preferences in zones |
| 00:09.13 | Amarande | I think Silithus is pretty neat, and I LOVE Winterspring |
| 00:09.17 | Amarande | so I get a lot of exp most people skip |
| 00:09.41 | Amarande | I also tend to quest the plaguelands, too |
| 00:09.56 | Shadowed | plaguelands aren't bad provided you don't try and do every single quest |
| 00:10.00 | theorbtwo | Shadowed: Hm, I found that to be reversed. I went to outland at 58, went "wow, new stuff", and now I'm at 60, and kind of bored of all of this red dry fire stuff. |
| 00:10.07 | Amarande | heh. let's put it this way, some things my character doesn't feel complete without |
| 00:10.10 | Shadowed | eh |
| 00:10.10 | Amarande | the scholomance key is one of them. :) |
| 00:10.33 | Shadowed | Classic/Outlands zone designs are relatively boring yea |
| 00:10.34 | Amarande | Actually, I think faction may come into play for the "crappiness" of Hellfire, too |
| 00:10.42 | Amarande | Alliance probably have a more fun time than Horde |
| 00:10.47 | Shadowed | Horde is fine :p |
| 00:10.54 | Amarande | the trouble with horde is you've already quested a few zillion hours in dry red rocks zones |
| 00:11.00 | Amarande | badlands ... durotar ... parts of the barrens ... |
| 00:11.09 | Jerub | theorbtwo: I was SOOO happy to get to the pretty looking zones. I hate hellfire peninsula. |
| 00:11.11 | Amarande | then you get to hellfire |
| 00:11.13 | Amarande | "yay, more red rocks" |
| 00:11.14 | Amarande | heh |
| 00:11.24 | Lunessa | I'm leveling new or newly revamped toons - and I don't feel the need to get everything again. I have characters who did it all the hard way. Now I don't care as much. And I have one character who is the "Achievement Toon." |
| 00:11.53 | Amarande | maybe that's why I liked netherstorm more |
| 00:11.54 | Amarande | it's rocks |
| 00:12.08 | Amarande | but they're not the same blah generic hordish red rocks that we see way too damn much of as horde |
| 00:12.56 | Amarande | thing is as alliance you see a lot fewer of it, so it's still a bit fresh and shiny and new when you get to hellfire |
| 00:13.20 | Amarande | since as alliance, you don't go to durotar, you don't really see much of the barrens other than the road from stonetalon to ratchet, and you probably don't go to badlands much unless you do uldaman or need mithril |
| 00:13.43 | Mikk | mm badlands is a bit optional for alliance |
| 00:13.59 | theorbtwo | Part of why I'm doing this new char the way she is is mages get a nice short-range teleport, undead get extra swimming, and horde get areas & quests I haven't seen -- different content to explore, and hopefully find the bits that we aren't supposed to see. |
| 00:14.05 | Lunessa | Badlands has some good stuff in it though, so there's reason to go. |
| 00:14.23 | Amarande | meh, undead's extra breath length seems not as big a perk anymore |
| 00:14.29 | Amarande | with the three minute swimming normally, anyway |
| 00:14.36 | Mikk | Mhm. 3 minutes is lol long. |
| 00:14.36 | Jerub | <3 druid swim form. |
| 00:14.49 | theorbtwo | Amarande: Maybe not. I'll find out, I guess. |
| 00:14.50 | Amarande | hell, I don't even use unending breath much anymore on my BE lock |
| 00:14.55 | Amarande | other than for the swim speed boost from the glyph |
| 00:15.11 | theorbtwo | Fatague seems more annoying then breath most of the time. |
| 00:15.23 | *** join/#wowuidev joeymarx (n=hudlee@pool-72-72-31-202.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:15.25 | Amarande | yeah, I usually hoof it as soon as I see a fatigue bar |
| 00:15.50 | theorbtwo | There's one bit that really annoyed me, between the feathermoon stronghold and the mainland. |
| 00:18.54 | Cairenn | :( RIP Patrick Swayze |
| 00:19.17 | theorbtwo | Indeed. |
| 00:21.03 | Shirik | who? |
| 00:21.07 | Lunessa | Oh man, I just saw a show with him in it on TV last night. |
| 00:21.13 | Cairenn | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28582715/ns/entertainment-celebrities/ |
| 00:21.45 | Cairenn | best known for Dirty Dancing, Ghost, etc. |
| 00:22.36 | joeymarx | What do I need todo to avoid nil owner names returned from GetAuctionItemInfo() on a getAll scan? Calling GetAuctionItemInfo() waiting 500ms, and calling it again works for 50 items but not a full 10,000 plus fast scan. ref notes: http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetAuctionItemInfo |
| 00:22.47 | Cairenn | also Top Gun |
| 00:23.51 | Shadowed | joeymarx: You can't, you have to wait about 0.5s or possibly more if you are doing a getall scan |
| 00:24.39 | NightHawkTheSane | :o Patrick Swayze died? |
| 00:25.02 | joeymarx | I've tried waiting 2 secs with the full scan it made no difference from .5.... |
| 00:25.45 | Shadowed | Maybe one of the Auctioneer people know more, but my experience has been you're out of luck |
| 00:25.54 | Shadowed | unless you just do single queries and repeat the query if it keeps returning a bad owner |
| 00:27.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 00:28.01 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: Today. |
| 00:28.16 | NightHawkTheSane | yes, i just read that. :\ |
| 00:30.20 | NightHawkTheSane | :o And Intuit acquired mint.com |
| 00:33.49 | KarlKFI|work | yeah i dunnohow i feel abotu them having my logins |
| 00:35.27 | joeymarx | is ChatThrottleLib still needed or does wow it'self simply throttle rather than disconnect these days I feel like it's been years since I've got d/c'ed? |
| 00:36.55 | KarlKFI|work | prolyl cause all the big authors are using ChatThrottleLib |
| 00:37.50 | joeymarx | ie I just requested thousounds of GUID-to-name queries (according to http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetAuctionItemInfo) without waiting and I didn't get d/c (most of them don't arrive instead) I'm not doing any throttling |
| 00:43.21 | Amarande | hmm |
| 00:43.29 | Amarande | which patch allowed one to ride mounts through Timbermaw Hold? :) |
| 00:43.56 | alestane | Whichever patch it was, I haven't been there since then. |
| 00:44.10 | NightHawkTheSane | You know, interviewing with small startups is always a very odd experience. |
| 00:44.14 | joeymarx | I noticed that 2 weeks ago probably last winter/spring maybe? |
| 00:45.23 | WobWork | NightHawkTheSane: sotrue |
| 00:47.05 | bleeter | incoming bad taste alert |
| 00:47.34 | bleeter | 'I see Swayze's finally making a sequel to Ghost' |
| 00:47.48 | bleeter | blames ##australia and whistles innocently |
| 00:48.45 | NightHawkTheSane | interesting... "It ends up that Apple has invoked some serious jiggery-pokery for Perl and Python on Snow Leopard such that they both run in 64-bit mode by default, while still offering full backwards compatibility with 32-bit binaries and with older versions of Perl and Python." |
| 00:51.22 | WobWork | I call shenanigans |
| 00:52.06 | bleeter | joeymarx: afaik, the whole GetAll thing uses severe voodoo... probably best to idle in #norganna and ask the guys there who've worked it |
| 00:52.32 | joeymarx | oh the voodoo be severe all right |
| 00:52.44 | WobWork | you remind me of the girl |
| 00:55.27 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 00:55.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 00:55.55 | Shirik | Does anyone here use Windows and a username with a dot in it? |
| 00:56.01 | Shirik | (And currently has access to that computer) |
| 00:57.50 | NeoTron | thinking about getting a new mouse. Has anyone tried this one and and is worth the somewhat high cost? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012FIDGU |
| 00:59.27 | Jerub | Shirik: I can have access to it. what's up? |
| 00:59.35 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: cute. |
| 00:59.41 | Shirik | I need you to test something |
| 00:59.50 | Shirik | I need to see the legacy format for folders |
| 00:59.53 | Shirik | so... |
| 01:00.04 | Shirik | you should have a folder like C:\Users\matthew.delbuono\ or whetever |
| 01:00.27 | Shirik | I want you to verify that there is also a folder C:\Users\matthe~1.del\ |
| 01:00.31 | Shirik | you can do this at command prompt or so |
| 01:00.34 | Amarande | NeoTron: Get the Logitech G9. :) |
| 01:00.55 | Jerub | ah, no idea. my windows machine is a win2k3 domain server I use for testing |
| 01:01.02 | Shirik | that is, the first 6 letters of the first part, followed by ~1, followed by dot, followed by the first 3 letters of the second part |
| 01:01.08 | alestane | Shirik: I can't actually check, but that should be a junction or a CLI alias. |
| 01:01.20 | Shirik | it shouldn't be a junction, it should "just work" |
| 01:01.30 | Shirik | should be a feature of the filesystem |
| 01:01.39 | Shirik | (yay for windows 3.1 compatibility) |
| 01:03.55 | alestane | Well, I don't think it'll appear in a directory listing in or anything. But you might get there when you try to cd to it. |
| 01:05.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 01:06.57 | Olison | Adys: ping |
| 01:07.19 | NeoTron | The amazon savings is nice though. 23% off retail isn't bad! |
| 01:07.32 | NeoTron | truly an "UnbeatableSale" |
| 01:07.53 | NeoTron | Amarande: I have a feeling that you didn't actually check that site ;-) |
| 01:08.28 | WobWork | bleeter: "i hope kanye doesn't show up to patrick swayze's funeral. " i'll let you get back to your funeral in a minute...but michael jackson had the best death of the year. just sayinnn" |
| 01:09.07 | Cairenn | WobWork: that was bad :p |
| 01:09.10 | NeoTron | s/site/link/ |
| 01:10.22 | WobWork | Shirik: Doesn't work for me |
| 01:11.20 | WobWork | NeoTron: What a BARGAIN |
| 01:12.07 | NeoTron | isn't it? lots of savings waiting to be had |
| 01:12.23 | WobWork | any deal in which I save 60 grand, I'm for! |
| 01:13.15 | WobWork | I'm not sure how they messed that up. |
| 01:13.19 | WobWork | Maybe they leant on the keyboard |
| 01:15.22 | NeoTron | it's not like they just added a few zeros |
| 01:17.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-167-195-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:19.16 | Shirik | WobWork: How did you test it? |
| 01:19.29 | Shirik | alestane: That's how it's supposed to work |
| 01:20.06 | Arrowmaster | why are you concerned about dos compat in windows filesystems? |
| 01:20.34 | Arrowmaster | actually thats just in fat, ntfs doesnt have that |
| 01:20.35 | Shirik | because Minion keeps hitting this strange bug/feature/discrepancy in Java where it thinks the temp path is the legacy path |
| 01:20.54 | WobWork | Shirik: went to my Docs and Settings folder |
| 01:20.59 | WobWork | (unless you're looking for vista+) |
| 01:21.11 | Shirik | Which would work perfectly fine, except that the security manager is like "wtf is this folder?" and denies access |
| 01:21.15 | WobWork | went cd ben.la~1 |
| 01:21.22 | Shirik | no |
| 01:21.30 | Shirik | ben~1.la |
| 01:21.43 | Shirik | The purpose of this name is "8.3 format" |
| 01:21.57 | Shirik | so no more than 8 characters in the part before the . and no more than 3 characters in the part after the . |
| 01:22.07 | WobWork | so the predot has to be greater than 8? |
| 01:22.07 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@WoWUIDev/Cosmos/AnduinLothar) |
| 01:22.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 01:22.22 | Shirik | I honestly don't know what happens if it's not greater than 8 but the extension is greater than 3 |
| 01:22.34 | WobWork | how would Ravcom.BULLSEYE convert? |
| 01:22.43 | Shirik | Try Ravcom~1.BUL |
| 01:22.55 | WobWork | works |
| 01:23.22 | Shirik | such a hack |
| 01:23.30 | Shirik | I really wish this didn't exist at all anymore |
| 01:23.55 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: i think it might have something to do with the path used when the app is launched |
| 01:24.08 | NeoTron | know what would be fun? |
| 01:24.10 | NightHawkTheSane | wait, so what if you had both, say Ravcom.BULLSEYE and Ravcom.BULLSEAR ? >.> |
| 01:24.14 | NeoTron | java development in an 8.3 world |
| 01:25.12 | NeoTron | class MnSvcCal { } .. :) |
| 01:25.13 | Arrowmaster | would be better if windows just didnt have the quirks in it anymore where it likes to have programs use all 8.3 paths if the program gets launched using an 8.3 path |
| 01:25.18 | theorbtwo | NightHawkTheSane: The first one becomes ravcom~1.bul, and the second ravcom~2.bul. |
| 01:25.31 | NightHawkTheSane | hm, godforbit you have more than 9? |
| 01:25.33 | Arrowmaster | better yet if windows just didnt have 8.3 paths anymore |
| 01:25.34 | NightHawkTheSane | less* |
| 01:25.45 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@124.205.157.51) |
| 01:25.51 | theorbtwo | It doesn't, if you don't use FAT FSes, I think. |
| 01:26.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: yeah, there's a solid argument to be made for killing antiquated tech |
| 01:26.03 | Arrowmaster | you can still add the ~1 to files that are short enough they dont need it |
| 01:26.21 | Arrowmaster | theorbtwo: it does |
| 01:26.31 | theorbtwo | That's rather a shame. |
| 01:26.48 | Arrowmaster | it kept doing it on my windows box formated in ntfs |
| 01:27.29 | Arrowmaster | sometimes when clicking a url in mirc without having firefox open, it would cause firefox to be started using an 8.3 spec |
| 01:27.47 | Arrowmaster | so taskmgr showed FIREFO~1.EXE |
| 01:27.57 | theorbtwo | Uff. |
| 01:28.08 | theorbtwo | Learn to cannonize, folks... |
| 01:28.13 | WobWork | would it then go Firef~10.exe? if it had more than 9? =)_ |
| 01:28.32 | theorbtwo | WobWork: I think so. |
| 01:28.46 | theorbtwo | It might go ~A first, but I don't think it does. |
| 01:28.48 | Shirik | WobWork ? |
| 01:28.50 | Shirik | Why ~10 |
| 01:28.54 | Shirik | oh |
| 01:28.55 | WobWork | after ~9? |
| 01:28.59 | NightHawkTheSane | windows is crazy |
| 01:28.59 | Shirik | I don't know what happens |
| 01:29.04 | Shirik | I've only seen it go to ~2 lol |
| 01:29.10 | Arrowmaster | its patented |
| 01:29.10 | WobWork | Shirik: I don't think MS knows either =) |
| 01:29.13 | Arrowmaster | you can look it up |
| 01:29.21 | WobWork | Arrowmaster: the crazy? |
| 01:29.30 | NightHawkTheSane | hah |
| 01:29.39 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, i think windows' special brand of crazy IS patented. |
| 01:29.42 | Arrowmaster | the long file names to 8.3 compat is patented |
| 01:29.57 | bleeter | WobWork: yeah saw that, i thought the ghost sequel line will be more lasting :P |
| 01:30.16 | WobWork | bleeter: true =P |
| 01:30.23 | theorbtwo | Just goes to show you how little the patent office considers "obvious to a practitioner skilled in the art". |
| 01:30.28 | WobWork | well, at least for GenXers |
| 01:30.47 | bleeter | theorbtwo: patent office needs/ed more computing phd'ers |
| 01:31.08 | WobWork | bleeter: Is that pronounced "feeders"? |
| 01:31.09 | Amarande | gah! |
| 01:31.17 | Amarande | how do I figure out which one of my addons is destroying ArkInventory in combat? |
| 01:31.28 | WobWork | Amarande: binary search =P |
| 01:31.35 | Amarande | at some point during adventuring, usually, whenever I'm in combat I am no longer able to access my inventory at all |
| 01:31.41 | NightHawkTheSane | bleeter: the patent office needs a lot of things. |
| 01:32.10 | Amarande | they should just stop having the notion of a patent, in the first place. |
| 01:32.27 | Amarande | at some point it's going to break technological innovation, possibly even software dev in general, for all but the largest of companies. |
| 01:32.38 | Arrowmaster | it already has |
| 01:32.40 | bleeter | or at least wind back the length of time they're excercisable for, or something |
| 01:32.40 | Amarande | the ones who can afford to have an entire division JUST TO BLOODY RESEARCH PATENTS |
| 01:33.01 | theorbtwo | I think there's a lot to be said for limiting the patent and copyright term strongly. |
| 01:33.02 | bleeter | yeah US patents are craaazy |
| 01:33.09 | theorbtwo | I read a great argument re that for copyrights. |
| 01:33.10 | Amarande | well, the largest of companies, and the ones who can afford to have a military division to send government agents packing when they try to enforce rights against them LOL |
| 01:33.21 | Amarande | umbrella corp FTL I guess lol |
| 01:33.38 | theorbtwo | Sadly, it won't happen; nobody has any interest in defending the public domain. |
| 01:33.57 | Amarande | Somehow, I don't think anyone will be able to assert their rights against, say, Umbrella or Weyland-Yutani type companies. But then, you gotta be pretty big to found something like that. :D |
| 01:34.30 | Amarande | actually, maybe it's time we started moving away from the notion of 'rights' |
| 01:34.40 | Amarande | sadly, people seem to believe that rights and freedom are somehow equivalent |
| 01:34.42 | Amarande | *bzzt* |
| 01:34.51 | Amarande | rights are the antithesis of freedom, as intellectual property shows :) |
| 01:34.59 | alestane | I spent a month and a half as part of a team scanning a bunch of patent suit files for Polaroid. They filled up three walls of a conference room. And these weren't actual patents, just documentation of legal activity surrounding those patents. |
| 01:35.20 | Amarande | I suppose you could always just drag your feet and refuse to pay your patent infringement suits |
| 01:35.31 | Amarande | but I'm not sure how long you can do that before you end up having the choice of either going to prison or being shot by cops :) |
| 01:35.37 | alestane | Rights are the ability to keep other people from destroying your freedom, at least in theory. |
| 01:35.38 | Arrowmaster | you mean like all the big companies do? |
| 01:35.38 | NightHawkTheSane | "rights are the antithesis of freedom"? wow seriously? that's like saying "potatoes are the antithesis of cake" |
| 01:35.40 | Arrowmaster | like MS |
| 01:35.40 | Lunessa | Amarande: Rights are not the antithesis of freedom. That's like saying breathing somehow makes you incapable of life. |
| 01:35.54 | Amarande | Lunessa: Every right requires an increasingly large web of restriction to make sure it is not infringed. |
| 01:35.58 | theorbtwo | Microsoft did that quite successfully to the EU for a fair while. |
| 01:36.05 | Amarande | Eventually, the restrictions become as absolute as being in an Encasing Webs debuff for eternity. |
| 01:36.22 | Amarande | Because, apparently, a world of people doing nothing is better than a world where people's rights are stepped on al lthe time. |
| 01:37.06 | Lunessa | Amarande: That's poppycock. You're confusing all meanings of "rights" into a single thing. Which means your argument is going to be lfawed. |
| 01:37.27 | Amarande | The problem is that people these days think that companies' ability to make money off of stuff is more important than creativity and innovation continuing. |
| 01:37.50 | Amarande | Basically, people are so into the recessionist mentality now that they will fight to preserve the community's livelihood dispensers, at all costs, even that of the future. |
| 01:38.05 | Lunessa | So, you don't believe in intellectual property? |
| 01:38.09 | Amarande | Or is it more the case that eventually, we need to come to realize that all of this stuff, except for medical and military related stuff |
| 01:38.10 | NightHawkTheSane | which has nothing to do with either rights or freedom.. |
| 01:38.12 | Amarande | IS NOT REALLY IMPORTANT |
| 01:38.18 | theorbtwo | Almost all rights have on their other side restrictions. The ones I'm most fond of, fortunately, are mostly the other side of restrictions on the government. |
| 01:38.35 | Amarande | and doesn't really help society much, in fact in general it saps resources and only helps at all because it helps keep the money flowing around |
| 01:39.03 | Amarande | after all, say video games were strictly pieces of art that didn't make any money for anyone |
| 01:39.03 | alestane | Amarande: which is exactly what's important in a conventional modern economy. |
| 01:39.03 | NightHawkTheSane | (does anyone have any idea what he's going on about? i got lost like a half a page back..) |
| 01:39.03 | theorbtwo | Sadly, the government enforces those restrictions on itself, mostly. The amount of attention they pays varies a lot... |
| 01:39.03 | Amarande | would they be of any importance |
| 01:39.09 | Amarande | or would they be an insane scourge on society as they sap away productivity without helping anything? |
| 01:39.30 | Lunessa | I think he's pissed off because someone has a copyright or patent that means he can't do something he wants to. |
| 01:39.46 | Amarande | Lunessa: more like, a lot of someones have copyrights or patents that mean that eventually |
| 01:39.50 | Amarande | NO ONE will be able to do ANYTHING they want to |
| 01:39.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: I think he's just unfocused and confused. |
| 01:40.02 | Amarande | other than companies with 9+ digit income |
| 01:40.05 | Lunessa | Amarande: Again, incorrect. |
| 01:40.23 | Amarande | anyone else will either a) be unable to afford the licenses, or b) be unable to afford the research in the first place and thus be doomed to be ruined by patent suits |
| 01:40.24 | theorbtwo | BTW, one thing I didn't know until quite recently: not-for-profit is a defense against patent infringement. |
| 01:40.33 | Lunessa | However, you would be vastly entertained by most Cyberpunk fiction. |
| 01:40.33 | theorbtwo | (But not copyright infringement.) |
| 01:40.41 | Amarande | theorbtwo: there's one problem with that |
| 01:40.57 | NightHawkTheSane | theorbtwo: really? wasn't aware, although it makes sense |
| 01:40.57 | Amarande | intellectual property is ruined because it is, essentially, a banana republic run by the biggest holding companies. |
| 01:41.02 | Amarande | it doesn't matter what is legal, for most people |
| 01:41.11 | Amarande | because most people are forced to cave in as soon as a company decides they don't like what they are doing |
| 01:41.16 | Amarande | since they do not have anything resembling the resources to fight it |
| 01:41.24 | Amarande | ergo, the law is no longer the law ... the companies ARE the law |
| 01:41.44 | Amarande | hell, that's how Microsoft probably gets a lot of their property |
| 01:42.03 | alestane | "because most people are forced to cave in as soon as a company decides they don't like what they are doing" <- this usually implies that they were doing something for which the courts are willing to hold them accoutnable. |
| 01:42.08 | Amarande | they just go in and take it, and if anyone complains, they run out of money so rapidly in the lawsuit that they're forced to sell whatever it was to MS anyway to stay afloat |
| 01:42.22 | Amarande | alestane: doesn't really matter whether the courts are -really- willing |
| 01:42.30 | Lunessa | So, because you're afraid of someone with money, you're willing to tear down the system that has caused the greatest flourishing of knowledge and creativity since the greeks built city stattes? |
| 01:42.50 | Amarande | all that matters is that the company can convince someone they have enough of a case to get into court, win or lose |
| 01:43.24 | theorbtwo | Lunessa: 1: I'm not sure your cause and effect hold water. 2: I think there's been a lot of changes to the balance of late. |
| 01:43.28 | Amarande | Lunessa: I think it's time for 'extensive modifications so that creativity can be preserved' |
| 01:43.45 | Lunessa | And to think, I thought I was the political radical in this channel. Now I'm not so sure. |
| 01:43.53 | theorbtwo | Terms have gotten *much* longer, and at the same time, the useful lifetime of many invenions has gotten much shorter. |
| 01:43.57 | ZorbaTHut | lunessa, the problem is that the patent system of today is not the patent system of 100 years ago |
| 01:44.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: *shrug* you my be A political radical |
| 01:44.03 | Amarande | Unless creativity is no longer important, and overpopulation is a sufficient problem that it's time for us to scrap it so that we can stabilize the infrastructure of "the basics" so that we can ensure survival |
| 01:44.12 | ZorbaTHut | the terms are vastly longer, and a lot of legal loopholes have been found to accomplish unintended things |
| 01:44.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: but you far and away not THE political radical. ;) |
| 01:44.20 | alestane | And there are procedures like motion for summary dismissal that are designed to prevent stupid cases from running away and draining everyones' resources, as well. |
| 01:44.26 | theorbtwo | For that matter, perhaps more importantly, the time to market has gotten shorter. |
| 01:44.44 | theorbtwo | alestane: That's the one saving grace in this situation, I think. |
| 01:44.59 | Amarande | iow, our first priority needs now to be to hold the hands of big companies so that they do well and can afford to give jobs to everyone |
| 01:45.01 | Shadowed | Hrm, easy way of checking if a folder contains __MACOSX folders on OSX? As it looks like they are completely hidden :< |
| 01:45.06 | Lunessa | ZorbaTHut: On that score we agree. And I know that change is needed and inevitable. But I completely disagree with Amarande's assertions that ziabatsu's will soon rule humanity |
| 01:45.10 | NightHawkTheSane | theorbtwo: yeah, I think cutting term length alone would do lot for fixing some of the patent problems |
| 01:45.11 | Amarande | because an increasing number of babies are entering this world and will need jobs 20 years from now |
| 01:45.22 | Amarande | and this makes creativity something that SHOULD go on the back burner to preserve profitability, perhaps? |
| 01:45.27 | Zyn | ^ wall of text |
| 01:45.34 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: that's so unbelievably wrong, it almost hurts. |
| 01:45.34 | Arrowmaster | Shadowed: every folder does i think |
| 01:45.35 | ZorbaTHut | lunessa, I think it's a danger. I don't think it's guaranteed, bu things like the recent relaxation of corporate political donations rules make me worry |
| 01:45.38 | Amarande | Then there's trademarks. |
| 01:46.01 | Amarande | A number of folks on RPG creation boards are starting to wonder now when we'll have to name everything things like "Zxawigekal" because all the reasonable names will be trademarked by some other 'verse. :P |
| 01:46.08 | Shadowed | I'll let the curse admins find out |
| 01:46.28 | Amarande | Night: so you support corporate profitability as a priority over the preservation of creation into the future? |
| 01:46.40 | Arrowmaster | Shadowed: youll probably find out right away when you attempt to upload it |
| 01:46.57 | Shadowed | It's not automatic |
| 01:46.58 | ZorbaTHut | I am not worried about profitability and people's ability to get jobs. Humanity is richer today than it ever has been in history, and people can survive on fewer and fewer hours of work |
| 01:46.59 | Adys | awwh hahah |
| 01:47.00 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/187703635 |
| 01:47.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: a) that has absolutely nothing to do with catering to corporations and them being the dominant job providors |
| 01:47.13 | alestane | Shadowed: Why do you need to know? |
| 01:47.20 | Lunessa | ZorbaTHut: *nod* Influence is still tied to money - we may never escape that. You should see how crazy every thinks I am when I say that a secretary in a cubical here should get the same level of support that we provide a director. And that just because you're BMOC you shouldn't get different service. But the stuff I'm reading here strikes me as naive. |
| 01:47.24 | ZorbaTHut | hell, a substantial number of people make livings off things as silly as webcomics or WoW UI mods |
| 01:47.28 | Amarande | or is one of the things we need to consider here, also, whether there's much left *worth* creating to consider the idea of risking such destabilization to "preserve creativity"? |
| 01:47.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: furthermore, your entire argument that creativity is currently being stifled by the needs of corporate profitability are provably wrong in many sectors. |
| 01:47.30 | ZorbaTHut | (to use two arbitrary examples) |
| 01:47.46 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: really? which addons are self-funding? |
| 01:47.49 | theorbtwo | Amarande: The question is if protectionisim or innovation is more effective in creating jobs. |
| 01:47.49 | Shadowed | alestane: Cause my WoWI/Curse pushing scripts are in Java, and not sure if the Java one is including the __MACOSX folders, I assume they aren't though |
| 01:47.56 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, Questhelper. I don't know if any others are. |
| 01:47.56 | Shadowed | wait what |
| 01:47.59 | Amarande | I think it comes down to. If we get forced to a choice, between keeping corporations profitable or keeping creativity alive |
| 01:48.00 | Amarande | we MUST select creativity. |
| 01:48.05 | theorbtwo | I think innovation is, mostly because small businesses are so much *less* efficent. |
| 01:48.08 | Amarande | to do otherwise is to stagnate humanity for all eternity. :) |
| 01:48.09 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: that's so cool. |
| 01:48.10 | ZorbaTHut | QH doesn't pay all my bills, but if I wasn't in the Bay Area it probably would. and I'm working on getting more. |
| 01:48.10 | Arrowmaster | Jerub: carbonite was and nUI was and might still be |
| 01:48.14 | Shadowed | There are like 2 addons if at that which are self funding |
| 01:48.30 | Shadowed | and you can't get as much since you can't spam donation requests in-game anymore |
| 01:48.40 | Amarande | what would we get by making the profitability choice in such a situation, anyway? :) |
| 01:48.44 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, I propose that this is a mistake on behalf of the addon writers more than anything else. I know how little I'm doing right now to get money. There's a huge amount of untapped income. |
| 01:48.58 | Shadowed | Yes well |
| 01:49.01 | alestane | Shadowed: Scripts that push your add-ons to the sites? |
| 01:49.03 | Jerub | ZorbaTHut: I would totally buy a witty questhelper t-shirt |
| 01:49.08 | NightHawkTheSane | theorbtwo: the answer, of course, is that neither is. ;) |
| 01:49.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: you're creating a false dichotomy |
| 01:49.08 | NightHawkTheSane | this is not a mutually exclusive situation. This is not the end of the world. |
| 01:49.12 | Jerub | (and tshirts is how webcomic artists make all their cash) |
| 01:49.21 | Shadowed | Most of us write addons for the enjoyment, rather than be greedy and complain about donations all the time :> |
| 01:49.28 | Arrowmaster | NHTS seems lagged |
| 01:49.29 | ZorbaTHut | jerub, that is either my next project or the project immediately following that :) it's tough to come up with a good t-shirt idea though |
| 01:49.33 | Shadowed | alestane: Yea, I have two scripts that pull from my git repo and push to Curse/WoWI |
| 01:49.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: yeah, I think i am. |
| 01:49.43 | theorbtwo | ZorbaTHut: Thanks again for questhelper, BTW. |
| 01:49.48 | Amarande | Shadowed: which also makes a giant hole in the arguments I've seen from too many people in favor of aggressive intellectual property protectionism, also |
| 01:49.52 | kd3 | grr, I've got too much hit rating |
| 01:49.57 | Amarande | the biggest bogus argument I see most of the time |
| 01:50.03 | ZorbaTHut | theorb, glad it works for ya :) |
| 01:50.07 | Amarande | is "if people couldn't make money by creating things, no one would create anything" |
| 01:50.07 | alestane | Shadowed: Do they push zip files, or source? |
| 01:50.13 | Shadowed | Amarande: I haven't been reading the argument, but from the sounds of it it's a stupid one |
| 01:50.18 | Amarande | which makes even my most out-there arguments seem legitimate, probably :) |
| 01:50.20 | Arrowmaster | Shadowed: use git archive and youll never have a problem of osx adding extra stuff |
| 01:50.24 | Shadowed | alestane: ZIPs |
| 01:50.39 | Shadowed | Arrowmaster: git archive doesn't do a second directory if I recall, so you extract and you get all of the files |
| 01:50.43 | Shadowed | double checks |
| 01:50.50 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, there's a large difference between "being greedy" and "putting a small amount of work in to allow you to spend far more time on the enjoyable bits" :) |
| 01:50.58 | Shadowed | not really |
| 01:51.10 | alestane | Shadowed: How are you you zipping them, and are you doing the ZIPping on a Mac? |
| 01:51.19 | Amarande | I imagine another problem is the general lack of enjoyability people find with work. |
| 01:51.31 | Amarande | It would be a different thing entirely, if people came to work each day because they wanted to do the work. |
| 01:51.45 | ZorbaTHut | *shrug* I dunno about you, but I think it's pretty neat that my hobby is also my day job. |
| 01:51.52 | Amarande | Unfortunately, most people come to work each day simply because they want the paycheck each Friday, which means the profitability receives additional importance or the work doesn't get done. :) |
| 01:51.58 | theorbtwo | A great argument in favor of lower copyright periods, BTW: http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/copyright/200909-submission.php |
| 01:51.59 | Arrowmaster | Shadowed: might be able to with some of the options, otherwise you could just use git archive to get a tar then pass that into a script, shouldnt be that hard to work with a tar from standard input using a scripting language like python or ruby, they have libraries for everything |
| 01:52.39 | Amarande | Unless, of course, one of my biggest flaws here is that I would much love to shove the world into a paradigm where we live based on desire and pleasure |
| 01:52.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: huh? How do you even remotely get from "people don't enjoy their work" to "profitability comes first or work doesn't get done" that last part doesn't even make sense. |
| 01:52.49 | Amarande | and "need" is something to be regarded secondary, and scoffed at :) |
| 01:52.52 | Shadowed | I'm just using the standard ZipOutputStream alestane, I'll probably have to look into what Arrowmaster is talking about |
| 01:53.07 | Amarande | Night: well, if people don't enjoy their work, then they *only* come to work because they *need* to to get the paycheck |
| 01:53.23 | Amarande | which means, if the work wasn't profitable, people wouldn't get the paycheck, thus wouldn't have a reason to come to work and it wouldn't get done. |
| 01:53.42 | Arrowmaster | Shadowed: i like git archive because then you can use %Format% |
| 01:53.42 | NightHawkTheSane | You're misusing the term profitable. |
| 01:53.48 | theorbtwo | On the other hand, are those people doing work that is funded by IP rights? |
| 01:54.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Further, what theorbtwo said. :P |
| 01:54.13 | alestane | Ah. I'm not sure what code supports that, but I know the zip command line utility doesn't add any Mac-specific shadow files, which things like the "Make Archive" context menu item do. |
| 01:54.16 | Amarande | theorbtwo: well, I suppose the janitor at Microsoft's campus is funded by IP rights. :) |
| 01:54.25 | Shadowed | That probably means the Java one isn't either, thanks alestane |
| 01:54.33 | Amarande | And only comes to work because he needs to to get paid, and probably wouldn't show up if he didn't. :) |
| 01:54.35 | Shadowed | I would hope that apple isn't doing crazy shit like forcing the misc ones to :p |
| 01:54.41 | NightHawkTheSane | "Profitable" work means that the company is making money above and beyond what it needs to meet expenses (which include employee wages/salaries) |
| 01:54.44 | Shadowed | Arrowmaster: yea I was using SVN before I was using git mostly |
| 01:55.04 | Amarande | Night: which is probably in turn why people are so passionate about IP, I suppose |
| 01:55.08 | theorbtwo | NightHawkTheSane: OTOH, if a company isn't profitable, they fold and stop paying wages. |
| 01:55.25 | Amarande | because companies need to be profitable for the stocks to retain value, and people are looking at those 401k's that got decimated a couple years ago. |
| 01:55.31 | Arrowmaster | no true |
| 01:55.42 | alestane | Shadowed: Careful about that assumption, the Java in OS X is Apple's version of Java. |
| 01:55.45 | *** join/#wowuidev MrRuben5 (n=MrRuben5@85.148.20.110) |
| 01:55.45 | Amarande | heh, what was my joke? 401k is how much you probably lost by choosing one rather than a safer retirement investment :D |
| 01:55.49 | Arrowmaster | facebook and twitter dont make a profit |
| 01:55.56 | WobWork | hm |
| 01:55.56 | Shadowed | alestane: I'll let the Curse admins find out :P |
| 01:55.59 | NightHawkTheSane | theorbtwo: Arguably so, but there's no real relation between the incentive of a person to do their job due to salary/wage and the profitabilty of a company |
| 01:56.01 | WobWork | I'd not like my hobby to be my job |
| 01:56.06 | Lunessa | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:56.12 | Amarande | There's also the argument of whether we could survive anymore without our IP industry. |
| 01:56.29 | Amarande | It seems to be one of the few industries the US has left that hasn't been sent off to another country where it's cheaper to do the work. |
| 01:56.30 | alestane | Lunessa: Karazhan, last boss. |
| 01:56.33 | NightHawkTheSane | except in the fairly narrow field where a person has a personal stake in the profitability of a company. on the whole, that's probably under 1% of all employees |
| 01:56.36 | WobWork | I'd like my job to be something challenging, and able to keep my interest |
| 01:56.53 | Amarande | I wonder what we'd do without the IP industry. |
| 01:56.55 | WobWork | but making my hobby my job will make me dislike my hobby after a while |
| 01:57.02 | Lunessa | alestane: You face not Mechlezar alone, but the legions I command! |
| 01:57.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: we'd invent it. |
| 01:57.27 | Amarande | We'd probably go to war a lot, so we could keep the gun industry going instead. :) |
| 01:57.29 | NightHawkTheSane | IP is not some artificial creation that the corporate overmind thought up |
| 01:57.32 | theorbtwo | There's also a degree of "no point in showing how good an employee I am, nobody's going to have a job in a month anyway". |
| 01:57.34 | ZorbaTHut | wob, I think you have to practice some moderation in this situation |
| 01:57.39 | NightHawkTheSane | IP is a.. whats the word.. emergent property of creation. |
| 01:57.46 | theorbtwo | No, it really isn't. |
| 01:57.47 | ZorbaTHut | there's a reason I pretty much took a break after releasing 1.0 finally |
| 01:58.04 | Amarande | Night: and one the level of validity of which is hardly black and white, and subject to considerable debate |
| 01:58.12 | Amarande | because generally speaking, the value of an idea becomes dual due to IP |
| 01:58.18 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: To me, a 'job' is something that is as permanent as I can make it, for the main reason for incoming money |
| 01:58.20 | theorbtwo | The framers of the constitution thought it up in order to, I quote, "promote the useful arts". |
| 01:58.21 | Amarande | there is the monetary value to the creator from it being a piece of IP |
| 01:58.30 | Amarande | vs. the value to creative society as a whole as an idea |
| 01:58.34 | WobWork | a 'hobby' is something I enjoy that I can put aside at any time I want, with no repercussions |
| 01:58.52 | NightHawkTheSane | er, it kind of is. Humanity by its nature is fairly greedy. |
| 01:58.52 | ZorbaTHut | wob, to me, a job is something I make money on. Long-term permanence is not only noncritical, it is something to be actively avoided. |
| 01:58.52 | Amarande | the problem is that back in the day, patents used to have both such values. |
| 01:58.53 | theorbtwo | The concept of IP rights automatically beginning without having to be explicitly claimed is even newer. |
| 01:59.00 | ZorbaTHut | if you're doing one thing for ten years, it's either because you absolutely love it, or it's because you're stuck in a rut. and the two can be hard to distinguish. |
| 01:59.17 | Amarande | now they pretty much have only the value to the creator as IP. |
| 01:59.26 | NightHawkTheSane | theorbtwo: er, my point is that its something that would have evolved regardless. |
| 01:59.35 | Amarande | because by the time they ARE given to society by law, they're about as useful as "hey, I just came up with a new way to defeat Hogger" |
| 01:59.47 | Arrowmaster | copyright and patents were originally intended to protect the individual from the big companies, the problem is just that in the hands of the big companies it doesnt protect anything but their profit |
| 02:00.15 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, amen |
| 02:00.19 | Amarande | Arrow: And that people are willing to side with the big companies as essential fixtures, to the expense of other considerations |
| 02:00.24 | ZorbaTHut | and "fifty years after death" protects nobody but the companies |
| 02:00.34 | Amarande | Although ... I'm not sure whether we could survive anymore with small business. |
| 02:00.56 | Amarande | Assuming that small businesses in each area worked together at the areas' junctions to keep infrastructure things like the Internet chugging |
| 02:01.03 | Amarande | there's a big matter of, particularly, FIT. |
| 02:01.05 | NightHawkTheSane | i think the millions of successful small businesses like to think we could |
| 02:01.10 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: There are responsibilities involved in a job that shouldn't be in a hobby, however, imo |
| 02:01.14 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, we might have to reduce our standards a little. however, I see no reason to *protect* large businesses - if we need large businesses for certain things, they'll spring up |
| 02:01.19 | Amarande | Night: I'm more thinking what would happen if we had no big corporations at all, just small businesses |
| 02:01.28 | theorbtwo | That's one thing that really pisses me off -- there's been a few musicians in the UK complaning that their copyrights on their early work are expiring. |
| 02:01.31 | Amarande | and wondering, in particular, how we would avoid communities dying horribly from FIT. |
| 02:01.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: again, big corporations would be created. it's an emergent property of globalization |
| 02:01.37 | ZorbaTHut | wob, see, I disagree. I think there are responsibilities involved in a job that *should* be in any hobby that involves other people |
| 02:01.46 | theorbtwo | OH NO, CRY ME A RIVER, YOU ARE NO LONGER GETTING MONEY FOR SOMETHING YOU DID 50 YEARS AGO. |
| 02:01.49 | ZorbaTHut | it bugs me when mod authors just decide to blow off their users without comment |
| 02:01.56 | Amarande | Remember that 20-30% of the money paid to members of a given community goes OUT of that community right away, because those people must pay FIT on their income. |
| 02:02.13 | Amarande | That means logically that at least 20-30% or so of a community's business MUST BE FROM OUTSIDE that community |
| 02:02.27 | Amarande | or the community is doomed to die of financial attrition to the federal government, as it can't replace what goes out to tax |
| 02:02.33 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: >.> hey, i do it because i'm lazy :( |
| 02:02.52 | Lunessa | Amarande: Wealth is not a zero-sum game |
| 02:02.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-167-195-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:02.59 | WobWork | ZorbaTHut: It depends on who you are writing for |
| 02:03.15 | Shadowed | ^ |
| 02:03.15 | WobWork | I write my addons for myself, mostly |
| 02:03.15 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: Also, once you take enough job-like "responsibilities" and move them into your hobby, it stops being a hobby |
| 02:03.15 | Amarande | And I'm not sure you can maintain that ratio without some pretty big business. |
| 02:03.15 | WobWork | and if they work as I expect them to work |
| 02:03.15 | ZorbaTHut | wob, it does, but if you intend to be taken seriously, I think there's some responsibility involved |
| 02:03.20 | Shadowed | not really |
| 02:03.20 | NightHawkTheSane | just because you don't (necessarily) get paid for it doesn't mean its not a job |
| 02:03.20 | WobWork | I'm not going to add functionality I don't use |
| 02:03.21 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, I disagree. I think it can still be a hobby |
| 02:03.37 | WobWork | NightHawkTheSane: I agree |
| 02:03.40 | Amarande | You know, FIT attrition makes me understand some of those evil towns in the South |
| 02:03.47 | WobWork | It might become a 'job you enjoy' |
| 02:03.53 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: Eh, I think the instant when other people have an influence over your work on something, it stops being a hobby. |
| 02:03.54 | Amarande | the ones that set themselves up on the highway and make their local speed limit like 35 mph so they can ticket half the people passing through |
| 02:03.54 | WobWork | but it's moved out of the 'hobby' definition |
| 02:04.00 | Shadowed | It's also a lot easier to say you should respond to all users when you have one addon |
| 02:04.03 | Shadowed | and not say, 10-30 |
| 02:04.04 | Amarande | a lot of those towns probably need that revenue to offset what leaves the town in taxes and such :| |
| 02:04.05 | WobWork | a 'hobby' is a purely personal thing for me |
| 02:04.25 | Shadowed | not to mention that half the comments are usually "I can't read, help me" |
| 02:04.29 | Amarande | Night: the question is, what's a hobby then? |
| 02:04.31 | ZorbaTHut | I suppose my distinction is that a job is when someone hires you, or when you'd end up with severe financial penalties for calling it quits |
| 02:04.44 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, that's why I have volunteers to help me answer questions ;) |
| 02:04.46 | Amarande | By that definition, you can't do, for instance, hobby WoW addons at all :) |
| 02:04.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: something done purely for your own enjoyment, to which you owe no others nothing. |
| 02:05.00 | WobWork | Amarande: Why not? |
| 02:05.01 | Amarande | Since Blizzard has a direct influence over your work (in particular, every patch has a good chance of breaking something or other.) |
| 02:05.13 | WobWork | That's like flying a kite as a hobby |
| 02:05.19 | WobWork | You're still beholden to the winds |
| 02:05.41 | WobWork | (wow, that was philisophical =P) |
| 02:06.16 | NightHawkTheSane | WobWork: well, it sounds like it is, at least. ;) |
| 02:06.19 | Shadowed | I bribe God to ensure proper win |
| 02:06.19 | Shadowed | d |
| 02:06.41 | ZorbaTHut | wob, you're a poet and you didn't even previously realize that fact |
| 02:07.24 | Amarande | c'mon Bills. |
| 02:07.27 | Amarande | SQUISH THE PATRIOTS |
| 02:07.53 | NightHawkTheSane | buffalo's playing the pats? yeah, they're going to lose. |
| 02:08.04 | Amarande | Night: right now they're down by one point with 45 seconds left in the game |
| 02:08.08 | Amarande | and they have the ball |
| 02:08.19 | NightHawkTheSane | where are they? |
| 02:08.30 | Amarande | on their 21, it looks like |
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| 02:08.42 | NightHawkTheSane | heh, i give it a 30% chance |
| 02:08.44 | Amarande | wait, I think they just got a first down thanks to T.O. |
| 02:08.49 | Amarande | GO TO |
| 02:09.07 | Amarande | I can't stand the Patriots. They're like the Yankees of football. |
| 02:09.24 | Amarande | Can't stand the Lakers in basketball for the same reason. |
| 02:09.36 | NightHawkTheSane | I dont mind them, but I'm a buffalo fan. So i -hope- buffalo wins. They just haven't been very impressive. :\ |
| 02:09.47 | Amarande | they're on their 40, 22 seconds to go |
| 02:09.59 | NightHawkTheSane | fortunately, I have the seahawks now, so I can feel bad on both sides of the nfl. |
| 02:10.02 | Amarande | The problem with the Yankees and Patriots and Lakers is I tend to get the impression they purchase their victories. |
| 02:10.57 | Amarande | It would be like being able to suddenly command the top T9 guild on your server by just starting a guild with enough gold and items in the Guild Bank to give to people willing to join you. Bah. Real skill > riches. |
| 02:11.20 | Amarande | Actually, I can think of a perfect example of the failure of the capitalist system to equate money with success. |
| 02:11.25 | Amarande | We call them the New York Mets. :D |
| 02:12.06 | alestane | I team whose fans prize its ability to pull defeat from the jaws of victory? |
| 02:12.11 | alestane | A* team |
| 02:12.33 | Amarande | alestane: a team that does that, and does it with the third highest payroll in baseball. |
| 02:12.36 | Amarande | BOOOOOOOOO |
| 02:12.44 | Amarande | 25-24 NE final :P |
| 02:12.47 | alestane | It's true our relationship with them is a little odd...no-one can lose quite as painfully as they can. |
| 02:12.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: told yoiu. |
| 02:13.07 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: oh, i beg to differ. |
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| 02:13.15 | alestane | Cubs fan? |
| 02:13.30 | NightHawkTheSane | buffalo bills, back in the kelly era. |
| 02:13.32 | Amarande | Well, at least the Eagles had a landslide victory this week. :) |
| 02:13.38 | NightHawkTheSane | yay, 4 superbowls.. no wins.. :( |
| 02:13.48 | Amarande | Yeah, alestane ... the Mets didn't lose four World Series in a row. :) |
| 02:13.54 | NightHawkTheSane | -consecutive- superbowls. |
| 02:14.33 | Amarande | anyway, I tend to dislike the notion that the team who can pay out the highest payroll deserves to reap the benefits of those resources. :) |
| 02:15.09 | Amarande | Let's put it in a WoW perspective again, that's like saying that ownership of one of those mammoths with the merchant etc. on it makes you a better WoW player than someone who's never had more than 6k gold or so at a time. :) |
| 02:15.39 | Amarande | Although ... I would kind of like to get 8800 gold together, so I can get the ilvl 226 Kirin Tor ring. |
| 02:15.43 | NightHawkTheSane | I'm pretty sure we all understand the underlying concepts, and don't need an absurd metaphor. |
| 02:15.47 | NightHawkTheSane | analogy* |
| 02:15.49 | alestane | Not for us the "Come-from-behind" victory; we get the pride of making up a four-run deficit to a tie in the eighth inning, stretching it out for three extra innings, and THEN losing. |
| 02:15.50 | NightHawkTheSane | sighs. |
| 02:16.05 | Lunessa | My Mekgineer's Chopper says I'm the most awesome WoW player ever. It's good for picking up chicks too. |
| 02:16.17 | Adys | Amarande |
| 02:16.20 | Amarande | sorry, Lunessa. |
| 02:16.24 | Amarande | the Mechano-Hog is better. :) |
| 02:16.37 | alestane | Amarande: Payroll is generally supposed to approximate success precisely because you can recruit promising players. Paying rookies more doesn't make them better. |
| 02:16.41 | Adys | are you one day going to make less analogies to wow when they truly arent necessary |
| 02:16.57 | Amarande | The Mechano-Hog is better for one specific reason. |
| 02:17.02 | Amarande | Because it's Horde. And Horde are awesome. |
| 02:17.17 | Adys | LIKE YOU JUST DID |
| 02:17.18 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: "Sources say no." |
| 02:17.21 | Amarande | For instance, Horde are red. Alliance are blue. Now, for the relative value of red vs. blue, how many of you would choose the red pill? :) |
| 02:17.31 | Adys | ITS UNFUNNY |
| 02:17.36 | Adys | THE OPPOSITE OF FUNNY >< |
| 02:17.46 | Amarande | For another instance. Horde actually has relatively unique and interesting races. |
| 02:18.04 | Amarande | Except for the Draenei, Alliance has the same old boring generic D&D races as just about every other MMORPG. |
| 02:18.12 | Amarande | Ergo. Horde > Alliance. |
| 02:18.26 | Adys | sigh |
| 02:18.32 | NightHawkTheSane | hugs Adys |
| 02:18.39 | ZorbaTHut | except for the tauren, horde has the same old boring generic d&d races also |
| 02:18.52 | Amarande | Zorba: except horde races aren't normally available to players in D&D :) |
| 02:18.54 | NightHawkTheSane | tauren are just minotaur |
| 02:19.10 | Amarande | except for Tauren aka Minotaurs in Dragonlance, maybe |
| 02:19.15 | ZorbaTHut | they are still just as cliche :P |
| 02:19.41 | Amarande | Well, there's still one matter of superiority for Horde, though |
| 02:19.43 | Amarande | We don't have gnomes. :) |
| 02:19.50 | Adys | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rpKpj6ZO9w |
| 02:19.53 | Arrowmaster | you normally dont play orcs trolls minotaur or undead in DnD games, well unless you happened to be playing with my group of friends back when they all still lived nearby |
| 02:20.03 | Amarande | Night, Adys, tell me neither of you plays gnomes. :| |
| 02:20.30 | NightHawkTheSane | I've played them all, at one point or another. |
| 02:20.42 | Adys | Amarande ffs. |
| 02:20.48 | Adys | nobody in this channel plays wow |
| 02:20.54 | Arrowmaster | i think ive been in a campaign with them all before |
| 02:21.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: *shrug* By virtue of them not being the presented player choices, true. But its not totally unheard of to run "monstrous" campaigns. |
| 02:21.14 | Amarande | Arrow: I suppose there's also DMs whose groups abused the Savage Species book |
| 02:21.35 | Amarande | actually, 3E was nice for broadening the horizons on player race choices |
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| 02:21.54 | Arrowmaster | our DM didnt let us play exotic races much in 3E |
| 02:21.54 | Lunessa | So, like, I don't play WoW? Wow. That's heavy, man. |
| 02:22.03 | Amarande | 1E and 2E required stupid amounts of retooling to balance in some worlds |
| 02:22.05 | Arrowmaster | but every now and then we got one in |
| 02:22.24 | NightHawkTheSane | I repeatedly say "if you want to play something thats not a default choice, talk to me about it first.".. few people actually take me up on that |
| 02:22.41 | Amarande | though there are a few things that are still difficult to do in 3E as player races |
| 02:22.45 | Amarande | Undead is probably the biggie. |
| 02:22.50 | Amarande | Especially undead caster classes. |
| 02:22.54 | NightHawkTheSane | the few that do i've generally said "yeah, sure, whatever." :\ |
| 02:23.02 | Amarande | The main thing is that for caster classes, a large part of their balance is having crappy hit points by comparison. |
| 02:23.05 | Arrowmaster | NHTS same but you had to sell the DM on letting you play the race |
| 02:23.27 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: yeah. ALthough as a DM i'm a pretty easy sell on a lot of stuff. |
| 02:23.28 | Arrowmaster | undead casters are easy |
| 02:23.29 | Arrowmaster | lich |
| 02:23.32 | Amarande | However, in D&D, undead -always- get 12 sided hit dice, and apparently if I remember the undead creature templates correctly, even present and future class hit dice are to be replaced with d12 |
| 02:23.49 | NightHawkTheSane | that's 3e. |
| 02:24.02 | Amarande | Plus you're immune to everything that takes a Fortitude save unless it works on objects. |
| 02:24.08 | Arrowmaster | is there anything other than 3e? |
| 02:24.17 | Lunessa | 4 is out. :P |
| 02:24.18 | Arrowmaster | you dont actually play that 4e garbage do you? |
| 02:24.19 | NightHawkTheSane | I actually enjoy 4e :) |
| 02:24.30 | Amarande | I've had a look at 4E, I'm still not sure yet on switching over from 3E, though |
| 02:24.52 | Arrowmaster | i hate it, i dont fucking want even more cooldowns |
| 02:24.57 | Amarande | Night, how did they distinguish the Wizard and Sorcerer in 4E once both classes were out? |
| 02:25.11 | Amarande | It seems to me that the way that the magic system works in 4E, pretty much all casters follow the 'sorcerer' model |
| 02:25.24 | Amarande | aka, a few spells they can use at will within certain limitations |
| 02:25.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Wizards gain additional daily & utility powers that they know, but can only prepare one of each level |
| 02:25.33 | NightHawkTheSane | so.. you know.. EXACTLY like they did in 3e |
| 02:25.52 | Shirik | A chronic disposition to inquiry deprives domestic felines of vital qualities. |
| 02:25.52 | Shirik | mpdelbuono@li23-154 ~ $ |
| 02:25.53 | Shirik | wtf? |
| 02:25.58 | Shirik | what the hell does that mean |
| 02:26.05 | Amarande | curiosity killed the cat? |
| 02:26.06 | NightHawkTheSane | curiosity killed the cat. |
| 02:26.11 | Shirik | ... oh. |
| 02:26.18 | NightHawkTheSane | pats shirik on the head. |
| 02:26.45 | Thunder_Child | INT +2, WIS 0 |
| 02:27.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: in practice, its not really that bad. The obnoxious bit is with magic item powers, i do NOT like how they did that. :\ |
| 02:27.10 | NightHawkTheSane | but the encounter/daily stuff ends up working pretty well |
| 02:27.24 | Amarande | yeah, for the most part 4E looks like it's pretty good |
| 02:27.35 | Arrowmaster | it would suck horribly for the campaigns ive been in before |
| 02:27.39 | Amarande | however, it's also a lot different in many ways from 3E, and I'm not sure I want to put the time into retooling old ideas for the new edition |
| 02:27.53 | NightHawkTheSane | It fixes a lot of the brokenness of 3e |
| 02:27.57 | Arrowmaster | we had a lot of time limited missions where we didnt really have much downtime to rest |
| 02:28.08 | Amarande | yeah, Arrowmaster has a point |
| 02:28.20 | Amarande | I was beginning to think of some classic fights where the cooldown system works poorly |
| 02:28.36 | Amarande | for instance, in the War of the Lance saga for Dragonlance, the Battle of the High Clerist Tower, that's a big one |
| 02:28.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: er, in 3e if you dont rest your spellcasters eventually run out of steam, yeah? |
| 02:28.57 | Amarande | because it's a big long war battle where you get little downtime, so 'encounter' abilities will get used up pretty quickly and never recharge |
| 02:29.04 | Amarande | so eventually, you have to use only your at-wills |
| 02:29.13 | Amarande | Night: yeah, that's the case |
| 02:29.28 | Amarande | however, a lot of things that are basically 'encounter' in 4E, you could memorize multiple copies of in 3E |
| 02:29.40 | Amarande | and thus be ready for extended battle royale sequences |
| 02:30.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Er, yeah. and about ~4ish "encounters" worth of stuff later, you're just as spent |
| 02:30.08 | Lunessa | Waiting for e-mail from a state agency is like water-torture. |
| 02:30.23 | NightHawkTheSane | d&d never worked well in long-term/large-scale war style fights |
| 02:30.35 | Amarande | Night: you know, that's actually a somewhat interestingly odd fact |
| 02:30.41 | Amarande | given that D&D originated with wargames :) |
| 02:30.52 | NightHawkTheSane | different scale, though. |
| 02:31.26 | Amarande | I guess when I think of caster at will abilities in 4E, I'm thinking that they're still quite weak after their encounter stuff is gone |
| 02:31.32 | Amarande | and probably even more so still than warriors |
| 02:31.38 | Amarande | after all, warriors have Attack and their at-wills. |
| 02:31.46 | NightHawkTheSane | er.. that's wrong, though |
| 02:31.50 | Amarande | for casters, their at-wills pretty much *are* their "attack" command |
| 02:31.52 | NightHawkTheSane | All the at-wills are pretty comparable across the board |
| 02:32.09 | Arrowmaster | yeah they toned down the melee attacks a lot in 4E |
| 02:32.14 | NightHawkTheSane | And no one uses "just" attack, save for Opp. attacks. |
| 02:32.22 | Amarande | Arrow: probably a good thing |
| 02:32.27 | NightHawkTheSane | (well, and save for specific warlord powers that grant basic attacks) |
| 02:32.32 | Amarande | fighters were chronically overpowered in earlier versions of (A)D&D |
| 02:32.48 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, overpowered early on, underpowered later on |
| 02:32.49 | Amarande | The Warlord is actually a class that I always disagreed with when 4E was new. |
| 02:32.59 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, the most powerfull at-will is the ranger 'twin strike' |
| 02:33.04 | Amarande | I always thought that was more of a role to be played than a class |
| 02:33.27 | Thunder_Child | Amarande, it came from Tome of Battle: Book of nine swords. from the white raven path |
| 02:33.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: I dunno, Chaos bolt in the hands of a wild magic sorcerer can be more obscene |
| 02:33.31 | Amarande | actually, in 1E AD&D, it may have been the case that the fighter WAS OP, and on purpose |
| 02:33.53 | Arrowmaster | pff our fighter tank sometimes did more damage than my rogue in one campaign just because he had way more ATK |
| 02:33.56 | Amarande | Apparently the late E. Gary Gygax said some time ago that the "ideal RPG character" is specifically a male, human, fighter |
| 02:34.09 | Arrowmaster | fucking hard has hell to hit crap |
| 02:34.17 | Arrowmaster | and i couldnt do any damage |
| 02:34.22 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, my avg dmg with twin strike hitting with both is 26 not including quary |
| 02:34.33 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: o_0 odd, with comparable stats/gear, rogues should always have a +attack advantage. |
| 02:34.49 | Thunder_Child | quarry* |
| 02:34.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: you've seen chaos bolt, right? as long as you keep rolling evens on your attack roll, it keeps bouncing to a new target. Until you run out of targets. ;) |
| 02:35.10 | NightHawkTheSane | so with a bit of luck, and enough enemies, you can do -way- more than that |
| 02:35.17 | Arrowmaster | NHTS: fighters get more ATK from leveling than rogues |
| 02:35.30 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, i know. but you are talking 50% from the first shot, it goes down from there |
| 02:35.36 | Thunder_Child | even with the dagger |
| 02:35.37 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: er, eh? Are you talking 4e or 3e? |
| 02:35.40 | Thunder_Child | it's not huge |
| 02:35.42 | Arrowmaster | 3E |
| 02:35.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: ah, my mistake, sorry |
| 02:36.04 | Amarande | Rogues. When I think of Rogues, I think of the first Neverwinter Nights and how sick overpowered rogues were. |
| 02:36.10 | Arrowmaster | rogues had to rely on their abilities to avoid the enemies dodge AC |
| 02:36.10 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, i have both a ranger and sorc |
| 02:36.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: yeah, the BAB stuff in e3 was really awkward, esp for "dps" classes that had that middle progression |
| 02:36.26 | Amarande | I'm still fuzzy on whether that's actually how the 3E rules are intended to work, or whether that was imba introduced by the conversion to a computer game |
| 02:36.33 | Arrowmaster | which fucking sucks when you are fighting things that dont have a lot of dodge AC and instead just have a lot of AC because they are gods/demigods |
| 02:37.17 | Amarande | Basically, in NWN1, all a Rogue needed was one partner in melee and they got Sneak Attack! Sneak Attack! EVERY round |
| 02:37.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: Yeah, i just think both abilities are reasonably comparable. They're both on the upper end of the spectrum for sure |
| 02:37.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: get a ring of blink. ;) |
| 02:37.43 | Lunessa | - http://www.stratfu.com/ |
| 02:37.51 | Arrowmaster | in 3e as long as the target is attacking something else you always get sneak attacks if you are behind it |
| 02:37.58 | Lunessa | "Chin Lightning – No explanation needed, just OP as fuck " |
| 02:38.12 | Amarande | to the point that you play a rogue, you take Linu, and you basically own the living tar out of everything that isn't immune to sneaks |
| 02:38.14 | Arrowmaster | or as i also did in that campaign, stand behind the tank with a polearm |
| 02:38.25 | Arrowmaster | or spear |
| 02:38.44 | Amarande | yeah, rogues were imba in 3E |
| 02:38.44 | NightHawkTheSane | as a rogue? that must have sucked to feat into |
| 02:39.05 | Arrowmaster | rogues could use spears i think in 3E |
| 02:39.09 | NightHawkTheSane | nah |
| 02:39.15 | Amarande | Night: play human, take a couple levels in fighter :) |
| 02:39.20 | NightHawkTheSane | course, you could just pick up a level of fighter, and bam, there you go |
| 02:39.31 | NightHawkTheSane | (and a free feat to boot) |
| 02:39.32 | Amarande | actually, take four levels in fighter and the rest in rogue and for a penalty of 2d6 off your sneaks you're just totally out there imba |
| 02:39.49 | Arrowmaster | well by the end of that campaign i was a rogue/fighter/wizard + shadow |
| 02:39.49 | Amarande | maybe I should move on to 4E |
| 02:39.52 | Amarande | 3E is too easy to break, heh |
| 02:39.52 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, 4e calmed that shit down. |
| 02:40.07 | Amarande | 2E wasn't so bad, until they introduced the Complete Book of Elves |
| 02:40.12 | Amarande | heh, bladesingers |
| 02:40.31 | Amarande | I wonder if those were a poison pill Williams had developed to discredit AD&D by ruining the game balance totally heh |
| 02:41.22 | NightHawkTheSane | unless you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist, no. |
| 02:41.27 | Jerub | using the book of rangers I managed to get a legolas that at level one could do 3 ranged attacks every round. |
| 02:41.42 | Amarande | Night: actually, there seems to be a lot of talk that Lorraine Williams was doing her best to ruin D&D |
| 02:41.45 | Jerub | ad&d book that is. |
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| 02:41.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 02:41.57 | theorbtwo | What? You can minmax in D&D? Say it isn't so! |
| 02:42.02 | Amarande | and it became one of the major reasons why TSR failed and had to be rescued by Wizards of the Coast |
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| 02:42.17 | Jerub | theorbtwo: this isn't even minmaxing, it's just class selection. |
| 02:44.46 | Amarande | "Williams was a financial planner who saw the potential for transforming the debt-plagued company into a highly profitable one. However, she was disdainful of the gaming field, viewing herself as superior to gamers.[9][10] Williams implemented an internal policy under which playing games was forbidden at the company." |
| 02:44.50 | Shirik | so let me run down the druid list again nevcairiel |
| 02:44.53 | Shirik | Druids can: |
| 02:45.00 | Shirik | - Use cyclone like a nutcase |
| 02:45.00 | Amarande | Basically, Williams owned a gaming company and hated gamers. |
| 02:45.04 | Shirik | - Heal like gods |
| 02:45.14 | Shirik | - Gather herbs while in flight form |
| 02:45.18 | Amarande | Is it no wonder she let things like the bladesinger get sicced on us? :P |
| 02:45.32 | Shirik | - Be immune to mana burn at will |
| 02:45.46 | Shirik | that probably covers 10% of mechanics |
| 02:45.47 | NightHawkTheSane | I think we should all just take a moment and mourn: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu9mx_patrick-swayze-chippendale_dating |
| 02:45.51 | ScytheBlade1 | - Take very minimal falling damage |
| 02:45.55 | ScytheBlade1 | - Stealth |
| 02:46.14 | Shirik | well rogues can do those too... |
| 02:46.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I just sat down, I have no idea what the context is |
| 02:46.30 | Shirik | how OP druids are |
| 02:46.38 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a druid |
| 02:46.40 | ScytheBlade1 | I love my druid |
| 02:46.49 | Shirik | see statement regarding OP |
| 02:47.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: this kind of drivel is more suited to trolling in the official druid forums. :\ |
| 02:47.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Guy has a point there |
| 02:49.13 | Amarande | well, yeah, druids are kinda OP in a sense that they're pretty much the "do anything" class |
| 02:49.33 | Amarande | ok. |
| 02:49.36 | Amarande | druids are OP. |
| 02:49.38 | Amarande | but we love them for it. |
| 02:49.40 | ZorbaTHut | druids really have to be considered differently in PvP and PvE |
| 02:50.03 | ZorbaTHut | in PvE they're not imbalanced because you virtually never do more than one thing at a time. they do one thing well, as well as a "native user", and that's it |
| 02:50.05 | Amarande | I would say druids weren't OP if they weren't able to do all of their roles as well as a comparable non-hybrid class |
| 02:50.07 | Amarande | however, they can. |
| 02:50.20 | Amarande | they heal arguably better than any other healing class according to some |
| 02:50.26 | Amarande | both moonkin and cat DPS are acceptable |
| 02:50.34 | ZorbaTHut | in PvP they're not imbalanced because they tend to be very restricted in each role. When they're in cat form, they don't have the panic buttons and emergency buttons that rogues do. In tree form they have zero offense. |
| 02:50.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: except by your own statements, that means they ARE balanced. |
| 02:50.47 | Amarande | their only *potential* deficiency is tanking, and I'm not sure anything in WotLK exercises their deficiencies in that especially much |
| 02:50.48 | Shirik | Here's the epic problem with hybrid classes |
| 02:50.50 | ZorbaTHut | Yes, a druid can do everything. But they can't do everything simultaneously. |
| 02:50.53 | Shirik | You have two sides |
| 02:51.17 | Shirik | On one side, priests will say they should be better healers than druids because they are a "primary healing class" -- it's what they were designed to do (let's act before shadow became what it is today) |
| 02:51.29 | Amarande | and the only reason they're potentially deficient in tanking is because there may be boss encounters for which a shield is a necessity - but I'm not sure what ones those are |
| 02:51.34 | Amarande | and in any case, DK tanks would suffer in the same way |
| 02:51.35 | Shirik | But if they are better healers, then what good is a druid healer? Always bring priests. |
| 02:51.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: That argument is invalid these days, though, with shadow being fully viable |
| 02:51.40 | Shirik | So druids are just as good |
| 02:51.51 | Amarande | Shirik: priests can't remove curses :) |
| 02:51.52 | Shirik | But, if druids are just as good, then one argues "why bring a priest?" |
| 02:52.04 | Amarande | druids can't dispel magic, if I'm not mistaken |
| 02:52.05 | Jerub | also, a geared druid is useless in his other forms. |
| 02:52.14 | Shirik | Blizzard has done relatively well at solving this problem |
| 02:52.17 | Shirik | but there are still some problems |
| 02:52.24 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, because in 99% of cases, a druid doesn't use his hybrid forms in standard PvE. he *is* just a healer. |
| 02:52.24 | Jerub | if I'm dps specced, my heals are crap, and if i'm heal specced it's not worth me going kitty ot bear |
| 02:52.26 | Amarande | I'm *pretty* sure among the main types of dispellable debuffs, each healer class is sans the cure for at least one. |
| 02:52.33 | Shirik | I'm still convinced nobody should be able to get over 9000 HPS in a fight |
| 02:52.35 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: 90% of the problems are created by the community |
| 02:52.40 | Amarande | which is one of the major things keeping the healing classes from making each other useless. |
| 02:52.41 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, I don't believe any class can cure more than two of the four. |
| 02:52.50 | Shirik | ESPECIALLY if you're a horrible healer |
| 02:52.52 | Shirik | but still able to do it |
| 02:53.11 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLon_ (i=nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
| 02:53.22 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: you mean 3 of the 4 |
| 02:53.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: its also one thing thats going to change in cataclysm |
| 02:53.29 | Amarande | and most raid instances use all the different types of debuff |
| 02:53.35 | Amarande | so yeah, you kinda need more than one type of healer in each |
| 02:53.35 | Jerub | droods can cure curses and poisons only. |
| 02:53.43 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, who can do three? |
| 02:53.50 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: shamans and paladins |
| 02:54.01 | Arrowmaster | shamans only if talented |
| 02:54.05 | Arrowmaster | but yeah |
| 02:54.05 | ZorbaTHut | ah, alright |
| 02:54.08 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, but EVERY resto takes that talent. |
| 02:54.14 | NightHawkTheSane | its not optional. |
| 02:55.13 | Amarande | and paladins can cure all five with bubble, but only on themselves |
| 02:55.28 | Amarande | by 'five' I'm also referring to Red debuffs, which are otherwise AFAIK non dispellable at all |
| 02:55.35 | Gnarfoz | not all of them, anyway. |
| 02:55.39 | Amarande | which was always one of my gripes about PvP balance. |
| 02:55.48 | Gnarfoz | and no, not every resto takes that talent |
| 02:56.06 | Amarande | the fact that both warlocks and melee classes are similar, in that they both rely on debuffs heavily |
| 02:56.18 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: why wouldn't you? its 1 point, and curing curses is way more useful than anywhere else you could put it |
| 02:56.37 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: I'm not resto, just saying I've seen enough shaman without it ^^ |
| 02:56.38 | Amarande | however, warlock debuffs are all stupidly easy to remove, while except for poison and maybe some Paladin stuff you can't dispel melee debuffs at all |
| 02:56.53 | Amarande | unless melee DOES depend somehow on the "you're screwed" nature of its debuffs for its balance |
| 02:56.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: I hesitate to believe those were very good shaman. It's a gimme. |
| 02:56.55 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: there aren't that many, though |
| 02:57.07 | Amarande | but then, you could argue the same, that warlocks depend on their dots for most of their strength |
| 02:57.17 | Amarande | yes, I know there's shadow bolt |
| 02:57.25 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: I'm not saying that, but not everyone plays 08/15 EJ spec ^^ |
| 02:57.26 | Amarande | however, I also know that shadow bolt takes WAY too long to cast in a PvP sense |
| 02:57.41 | WobWork | Gnarfoz: any healing shaman will take that =P |
| 02:57.45 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: heh, if there's one thing I tend to accept EJ as gospel on, it's talent spec :P |
| 02:57.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: fair enough. I just don't really think about people who fail that badly. ;) |
| 02:57.52 | Gnarfoz | WobWork: what other resto shaman besides healing shaman do you know? :D |
| 02:58.12 | WobWork | Gnarfoz: I dunno =P That's why I specified in case there was some wacky off the wall resto dps spec there =P |
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| 02:58.50 | WobWork | in any case, it's not like resto shaman are particularly starved for points in the resto tree |
| 02:58.55 | NightHawkTheSane | WobWork: does it count if i get so bored healing that i start to dps? |
| 02:59.02 | WobWork | NightHawkTheSane: I do the same =P |
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| 02:59.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 02:59.10 | WobWork | esp on Loatheb 25 |
| 02:59.11 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse_ (n=chatzill@124.205.157.51) |
| 02:59.32 | WobWork | and any other boss that does a constant aoe, so my WS keeps getting hit |
| 02:59.38 | WobWork | (eg, infinite mana) |
| 03:00.00 | NightHawkTheSane | heh, back before 3.1, i swapped to my dps gear on thaddius-25 and just dpsed the entire fight. My guild at the time didn't have the dps to reliably kill him before he berserked, and like 3 healers could do that fight.. :P |
| 03:00.17 | WobWork | NightHawkTheSane: we've had to do that a couple of times =) |
| 03:00.38 | WobWork | with the polarity buff you can put out some decent dps, even in resto spec |
| 03:00.47 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah |
| 03:00.58 | WobWork | (as long as everyone else doesn't fail =)) |
| 03:01.02 | NightHawkTheSane | i mean, i never competed with actual dps, but i didn't do badly. |
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| 03:01.52 | WobWork | I'm quite happy with my shaman, I'm one of the best healers in our uld 25 |
| 03:02.40 | WobWork | ie, coming second to the top holy priest |
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| 03:03.16 | WobWork | although I only count that if my overheal is less than 40% |
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| 03:03.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Kody-] by irc.freenode.net |
| 03:03.18 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, I was easily one of the top 2-3 healers in my guild, before i stopped playing. |
| 03:03.18 | NightHawkTheSane | bah, overheal only matters if you run out of mana. :) |
| 03:03.18 | NightHawkTheSane | which.. i only rarely did. |
| 03:03.18 | WobWork | true |
| 03:03.18 | Jerub | the ticks from hots now count as overhealing. |
| 03:03.18 | WobWork | mp5 is a wonderful thing |
| 03:03.44 | WobWork | Jerub: really? |
| 03:03.44 | NightHawkTheSane | it wasn't so much mp5 |
| 03:03.44 | Jerub | yeah, it's a recent change. |
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| 03:03.51 | WobWork | I tend to throw around riptide like a wave pool |
| 03:04.09 | NightHawkTheSane | as it was me stacking int/crit, and pulling massive replenishment tics, and lots of imp ws procs |
| 03:04.09 | Jerub | yeah, same with me and rejuv and lifebloom. |
| 03:04.09 | Jerub | er not lifebloom, wild growth. |
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| 03:04.10 | WobWork | I think riptide is the -best- healing spell -ever- |
| 03:04.21 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, riptide & lhw spam was my m.o. |
| 03:04.21 | WobWork | "Here, BUCKET OF WATER ON THE HEAD!" |
| 03:04.31 | Jerub | when i don't have to heal the MT or anything I'll spend my GCD throwing rejuv on random raid members. |
| 03:04.36 | WobWork | I do Riptide and CH a lot |
| 03:04.55 | WobWork | intelligent shaman heals ftw |
| 03:05.09 | NightHawkTheSane | i leverged AA for that. |
| 03:05.13 | WobWork | yeah |
| 03:05.27 | NightHawkTheSane | some fights I think AA accounted for like 12-15% of my healing |
| 03:05.36 | WobWork | Although, with my latency, i tend to anticipate heals a whole lot more =\ |
| 03:05.48 | WobWork | 500ms healing is FUN =P |
| 03:05.51 | NightHawkTheSane | ah, yeah, you're aussie, poor guy. :\ |
| 03:05.55 | Jerub | WobWork: welcome to australia. |
| 03:06.08 | Jerub | WobWork: are you in an australian server/guild? |
| 03:06.18 | WobWork | I was on an oceanic server |
| 03:06.23 | WobWork | but moved to Proudmoore |
| 03:06.26 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@rrcs-71-42-217-66.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 03:06.29 | WobWork | to join ToG |
| 03:06.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 03:06.44 | WobWork | and I've not looked back. It's an awesome guild |
| 03:06.58 | WobWork | and game community |
| 03:07.15 | Jerub | I'm in a social guild on an oceanic server. |
| 03:07.19 | Jerub | we're doing naxx10 and uld10 |
| 03:07.22 | NightHawkTheSane | ToG? |
| 03:07.28 | WobWork | TheOlderGamers |
| 03:07.41 | WobWork | http://www.theoldergamers.com/ |
| 03:07.44 | NightHawkTheSane | hm.. sounds familiar for some reason that i can't place |
| 03:07.54 | WobWork | we have guilds in many many games |
| 03:08.00 | WobWork | from MMORPGS to FPS |
| 03:08.11 | WobWork | and RTS |
| 03:08.23 | WobWork | and you have to be over 25 to join =P |
| 03:09.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Speeddymon (n=chatzill@209.33.85.62) |
| 03:10.39 | NightHawkTheSane | neat |
| 03:12.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (n=Sesshu@ip-6-17.travedsl.de) |
| 03:21.10 | Lunessa | And they've been around a long time. :) |
| 03:28.10 | Lunessa | Ok, I'm out tomorrow so I'll see you happy folk on Wednesday. |
| 03:28.15 | WobWork | have fun |
| 03:39.33 | Amarande | eep, did I just hear that on the TV |
| 03:39.37 | Amarande | "Designer Snuggie" ? :| |
| 03:39.49 | Amarande | RUN! THE SNUGGIES WILL DESTROY US ALL! |
| 03:41.00 | Amarande | heh, maybe that should be a cruel joke Blizzard could come up with for Cataclysm |
| 03:41.00 | Amarande | make the next 5-man epic cloth chest piece look like a Snuggie when worn :) |
| 03:41.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (n=faggotry@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 03:49.19 | WobWork | one day |
| 03:49.22 | WobWork | I will be sick |
| 03:49.25 | WobWork | and at home |
| 03:49.35 | Amarande | and wear a snuggie. |
| 03:49.35 | WobWork | and will bless my purchase of a snuggie |
| 03:49.40 | Amarande | heh |
| 03:49.46 | WobWork | eh, it was $4 |
| 03:49.49 | WobWork | How could I say no? =P |
| 03:50.03 | Amarande | can you imagine if, say, the T12 mage set ended up looking like you were wearing a snuggie. :) |
| 03:50.14 | Amarande | It would have to be mage, I guess |
| 03:50.26 | WobWork | truly, www.catchoftheday.com.au is a -terrible- site for those of us with poor purchasing impulse control |
| 03:50.27 | Amarande | that way, they'd at least have the defense of "DO NOT MAKE ANY SNUGGIE JOKES OR YOU CAN BUY YOUR OWN FOOD AND DRINK" :D |
| 03:50.48 | Jerub | WobWork: dealdump.com.au |
| 03:50.58 | Jerub | WobWork: also, booko.com.au |
| 03:51.11 | WobWork | you're a terrible enabler, Jerub =( |
| 03:52.03 | Jerub | also, shirt.woot.com - my coworkers byu too many shirts from there |
| 03:52.17 | WobWork | omg 50% Off Morro Olive Oil 4 litres $24.99 @ Woolworths |
| 03:52.29 | WobWork | Jerub: They don't ship to oz, ... do they? |
| 03:52.34 | Jerub | shirt.woot.com do |
| 03:52.37 | WobWork | I buy from teefury.com |
| 03:52.49 | WobWork | nicer shirts, I've seen than from shirt.woot |
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| 04:01.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
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| 04:02.51 | Arrowmaster | just played the demo for WET, that was perty fucking fun |
| 04:03.31 | Gnarfoz | so... Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium or ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 ;\ |
| 04:05.19 | Arrowmaster | xonar |
| 04:05.24 | Arrowmaster | just because its not creative |
| 04:05.50 | Gnarfoz | heh, yeah |
| 04:06.17 | Gnarfoz | but what are the chances of a custom DSP used by only that Asus card to be supported under anything but XP/Vista? ;\ |
| 04:06.51 | Arrowmaster | WobWork: a snuggie for $4..... pff i have a slanket and its well wroth the price over all the cheap knockoffs |
| 04:06.53 | Gnarfoz | also, that card for some reason has an extra power connector (woot?) and combines the optial output with the line-in & mic ports |
| 04:07.42 | Arrowmaster | asus doesnt use custom chips, they are just rebranded chips with the model numbers changed |
| 04:08.04 | Fisker | slaps Gnarfoz around a bit with a large trout |
| 04:08.05 | Fisker | slaps Arrowmaster around a bit with a large trout |
| 04:08.14 | Fisker | I AM UNSTOPPABLE |
| 04:08.26 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: they're still the only one using that one, IIRC |
| 04:08.36 | Gnarfoz | it's some cirrus logic chip afaik |
| 04:09.24 | Fisker | Gnarfoz |
| 04:09.27 | Fisker | i'm unstoppable |
| 04:09.28 | Gnarfoz | no u |
| 04:09.30 | Fisker | :( |
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| 04:18.18 | tem | hmm |
| 04:18.23 | tem | does Genesis work on Feral bleeds? |
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| 04:20.32 | Jerub | feral bleeds aren't dots i don't think. |
| 04:20.40 | Jerub | oh, lacerate is. |
| 04:20.56 | Jerub | http://www.wowwiki.com/Genesis says no, does'nt affect bleeds. |
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| 04:22.44 | Shadowed | Seerah: Option to turn the red error text off, not sell grays, it's just worded poorly :p |
| 04:22.54 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2CVLWOoNsY |
| 04:22.57 | Seerah | never assume ;) |
| 04:23.08 | Seerah | :) |
| 04:24.49 | tem | Jerub, all feral bleeds are dots |
| 04:25.04 | tem | Rake, Pounce Bleed, Rip |
| 04:25.11 | tem | also lacerate |
| 04:26.16 | Jerub | tem: sorry yeah, i get confused because mangle is + to bleed and shred |
| 04:26.25 | Jerub | so i think of shred as a bleed ability. |
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| 04:28.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Lothaer (n=jamiecoo@122-49-177-243.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 04:28.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lothaer] by ChanServ |
| 04:29.40 | Lothaer | hey guys i used to have a mod that would track my trade skills and abilites and each time i gained a level or reached a certain level in my professions it would report what im now able to learn any idea what the mod was? |
| 04:32.22 | pompy1 | Lothaer: you can use ARL |
| 04:32.53 | Lothaer | really? |
| 04:33.11 | pompy1 | Lothaer: http://www.wowace.com/addons/arl/ |
| 04:33.55 | Shirik | nobody commented on my youtube video :( |
| 04:35.25 | pompy1 | Comcast won't let me upload 3MB of stuff, they suck! |
| 04:35.25 | Thunder_Child | you have a video? |
| 04:35.29 | Bruners | http://www.noob.us/humor/americans-observing-911-by-trying-not-to-masturbate/ |
| 04:35.36 | Thunder_Child | oh...is it ove you teaching Shirik? |
| 04:35.41 | Thunder_Child | of* |
| 04:35.46 | Shirik | no |
| 04:35.50 | Shirik | the one I linked 10 minutes ago |
| 04:35.51 | Thunder_Child | boo |
| 04:37.08 | Fisker | damn |
| 04:37.22 | Fisker | what the hell did blizzard smoke when designing the mats for cardinal rubies |
| 04:38.03 | Fisker | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=66659 <-that's like 10 times the cost of any other transmutation |
| 04:38.54 | Bruners | why ? |
| 04:39.12 | Bruners | except that the red gems are more expensive |
| 04:39.51 | Lothaer | popmy1: i know ARL does that but what the mod im looking for did was when you reached a certain trade skill level or Character Level it would spam chat with something like "you can now learn" and then a list of skills and abilities |
| 04:40.03 | Fisker | except they're pretty much the same price as any other gem on the market on our server |
| 04:40.12 | Fisker | So you're literally paying 10 times the price for 0 times the benefit |
| 04:40.47 | Lothaer | pompy1* |
| 04:44.30 | Shirik | what is this LG TruMotion 240Hz crap |
| 04:44.58 | Thunder_Child | screen if i had to guess |
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| 04:45.25 | Shirik | there's no point |
| 04:45.43 | Shirik | It's the same crap as the audio companies were doing with their "Playback Oversampling" crap 10 years ago |
| 04:45.56 | Shirik | you gain nothing except the ability to sell it at a higher price |
| 04:46.17 | Arrowmaster | its so they can sell it as a 3d screen |
| 04:46.24 | Arrowmaster | for use with shitty shutter glasses |
| 04:46.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=Adium@74.207.247.205) |
| 04:46.42 | Shirik | but this is a TV |
| 04:46.43 | Gnarfoz | uhm, it's actually more of the scanning backlight variety, probably |
| 04:46.55 | Arrowmaster | yes they are making 3d shutter glasses tvs |
| 04:47.01 | Shirik | really? |
| 04:47.07 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 04:47.12 | Gnarfoz | yes, but I doubt that's one of them |
| 04:47.16 | Shirik | anyway, that's not what the marketing guys are making out of it |
| 04:47.25 | Shirik | they're saying it's for "more lifelike motion" |
| 04:47.28 | Gnarfoz | yes. |
| 04:47.32 | Gnarfoz | scanning backlight |
| 04:47.38 | Fisker | your mom is more lifelike |
| 04:47.40 | Shirik | elaborate |
| 04:47.46 | Gnarfoz | they're flashing the backlight on and off at 240Hz |
| 04:47.50 | Arrowmaster | why? |
| 04:47.58 | Dagmar | They're probably just doing frameinterpolation |
| 04:47.59 | Gnarfoz | for "more lifelike miton" :D |
| 04:48.14 | Gnarfoz | scanning backlight is not about interpolation at all |
| 04:48.16 | Fisker | i would've xD'd Gnarfoz |
| 04:48.17 | Shirik | Dagmar: If they are, that would be quite impressive |
| 04:48.19 | Shirik | But I doubt that |
| 04:48.22 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: every lcd does that for years |
| 04:48.26 | Gnarfoz | it's because eyes perceive it differently |
| 04:48.33 | Shirik | Arrowmaster? |
| 04:48.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=Adium@li89-205.members.linode.com) |
| 04:48.53 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Excepting they don't have a backlight hinting at likelihood that they're quadrupling (or at least doubling) the frame rate with interpolation |
| 04:49.04 | Arrowmaster | every lcd does processing on the frames for overdrive, what do you think causes reverse ghosting |
| 04:49.05 | Shirik | Shadowed has a linode! |
| 04:49.13 | Shadowed | mmm? |
| 04:49.23 | Shirik | mine is lower number |
| 04:49.25 | Shirik | obviously it's better |
| 04:49.30 | Gnarfoz | I don't see what the hype is about Linode, tbh |
| 04:49.36 | Shadowed | Not exactly :> |
| 04:49.49 | Shadowed | more like I'm tunneling Adium through SSH to get around dorm restrictions |
| 04:49.59 | Shadowed | and it's not mine |
| 04:50.54 | Gnarfoz | whee: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/scanning-backlight.htm |
| 04:53.23 | Arrowmaster | Gnarfoz: guessing thats different than dynamic contrast on new lcd monitors? |
| 04:53.48 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: dynamic contrast is inter-frame, scanning backlight should be intra-frame |
| 04:54.03 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 04:54.19 | Gnarfoz | (intra-frame dynamic contrast, a.k.a. local dimming is not quite that wide-spread, and more a TV thing) |
| 04:54.25 | Arrowmaster | ive heard the dynamic contrast looks horrible when watching something that causes it to trigger a lot |
| 04:54.52 | Gnarfoz | do you remember CRTs that "pumped" the picture when going from black to white and back? |
| 04:55.15 | Arrowmaster | not really |
| 04:55.16 | Gnarfoz | equally as annoying IMHO, however, not every monitor does it the same way/as bad as the next one, so YMMV |
| 04:55.36 | Dagmar | Some mess it up substantially more than otehrs |
| 04:55.37 | Gnarfoz | I think I turned off dynamic contrast on my LCD monitor ^^ |
| 04:56.05 | Gnarfoz | and brightness sits at 10% or something, it'd burn my eyes out otherwise |
| 04:56.17 | Arrowmaster | "Standard-definition television screens refresh 60 times a second, whereas recent HDTV televisions refresh as many as 480 times per second. While television manufacturers claim the higher refresh rates translate into smoother displays of fast action, the individual viewer may have difficulty telling the difference between a high-end model and an ultra-high-end model." |
| 04:56.35 | Dagmar | s/may have/will have/; |
| 04:56.48 | Gnarfoz | truth |
| 04:57.22 | Dagmar | A LOT of it is just plain hype |
| 04:57.33 | Arrowmaster | yeah ofcourse the manufacturers are going to claim it makes the picture smoother even though you are watching a dvd so 3:2 pulldown is being used making all the motion jittery |
| 04:57.40 | Arrowmaster | .... |
| 04:57.44 | Dagmar | No telecine? |
| 04:57.47 | Arrowmaster | fucking hate dvds being interlaced |
| 04:58.00 | Dagmar | Half the DVDs I have are telecine, now that I know how to actually recognize it |
| 04:58.07 | Arrowmaster | 3:2/2:3 whatever it is is telecine |
| 04:58.09 | Dagmar | I thought Handbrake was just being tetchu |
| 04:58.13 | Dagmar | s/chu/chy/; |
| 04:58.45 | Dagmar | For instance, The Colour of Magick |
| 04:58.59 | Dagmar | I must have reencoded that thing eleven times |
| 04:59.19 | Dagmar | If I left Handbrake alone, it would figure it out and I'd get nice smooth output |
| 05:00.00 | WobWork | Arrowmaster: a.. slankit? Sounds like something you do to a rival in a max security prison |
| 05:00.01 | Dagmar | If I tried to force 24fps or 30fps without reminding it that telecine is there, it would judder like nobody's business |
| 05:01.03 | Arrowmaster | if you were forcing to 24fps or 30fps and not the proper 24000/1001fps or 30000/1001fps then yeah it would look fucking horrible |
| 05:01.32 | Dagmar | It wasn't that |
| 05:01.35 | Gnarfoz | fucking bs 23.97 etc framerates, that has always bothered me :p |
| 05:01.39 | Dagmar | It was just grabbing the wrong frames entirely |
| 05:01.56 | Arrowmaster | lua> 24000/1001 |
| 05:01.56 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: 23.976023976024 |
| 05:01.57 | Gnarfoz | wtb plain 24fps progressive \o/ |
| 05:02.13 | Arrowmaster | Gnarfoz: you forgot the .006 |
| 05:02.28 | Gnarfoz | no, I just left it out intentionally :p |
| 05:03.22 | Gnarfoz | I don't bother with that shit anymore, I just get bluray stuff encoded by people who know their stuff |
| 05:03.35 | Dagmar | I rip my own |
| 05:04.12 | Gnarfoz | if I was in the position to rip bluray, I'd just watch the original bluray. :D |
| 05:04.20 | Arrowmaster | ive only got a ps3 that can play bluray and no hdtv for it but im still about to start buying bluray just because of the stupid interlacing and telecine on dvds |
| 05:04.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 05:04.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 05:05.09 | Amarande | Arrow: don't you pretty much need an HDTV to be *allowed* to play bluray, though? |
| 05:05.16 | Dagmar | Well... |
| 05:05.16 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 05:05.32 | Amarande | I thought the copyright czars got all pissy about the "analog hole" and will only allow bluray to be played on secured digital panels |
| 05:05.40 | Dagmar | Being that this channel doesn't have much that could cause an issue, there's some french guys who have a nice thing for crushing HDCP |
| 05:05.58 | Dagmar | It's kinda pricey, and it's not *haha* legal if you don't use the screws on the connector |
| 05:06.02 | Arrowmaster | ive seen multiple HDCP killers |
| 05:06.05 | Amarande | oh, that's just obvious, anyway, it plays into the first rule of DRM :P |
| 05:06.09 | Arrowmaster | ive seen legal ones |
| 05:06.16 | Amarande | The first rule of DRM is that any DRM you create will be broken. |
| 05:06.25 | Gnarfoz | true enough |
| 05:06.34 | Dagmar | Well, these guys claim theirs is legal, becuase when you screw the connector onto the back of your TV, the unprotected content is no longer "easily available" |
| 05:06.40 | Amarande | Then there is the *second* rule of DRM, which is the more complicated and elaborate you make your DRM system, the *more* attracted pirates become to your system and the sooner they will break it. :D |
| 05:06.57 | Dagmar | Gotta be the thinnest excuse I've heard in years tho |
| 05:07.46 | Arrowmaster | and yet they have a license to make HDCP chips |
| 05:07.50 | Dagmar | Two hunnert bucks |
| 05:07.56 | Arrowmaster | ive seen cheaper |
| 05:08.45 | Dagmar | They only recently came up with that excuse |
| 05:09.15 | Dagmar | I'm not too sure they ever bothered to secure any licence, being that it's _just_ taking HDCP out of the scenario |
| 05:09.43 | Dagmar | THey've been selling this thing since 2004 or so |
| 05:10.04 | Arrowmaster | http://www.hdfury.com/ |
| 05:10.18 | Dagmar | Every so often someone will come into $MythTV-users and mention it and we have to say "Shhh... No. You can't talk about that here." |
| 05:10.22 | Dagmar | Yep that's the one |
| 05:10.32 | Dagmar | They're starting to look more legit now at least |
| 05:12.18 | Dagmar | When I first heard about them, the site they had looked so shifty... I had visions of them getting raided and all customer orders being followed up with a lawsuit like with those Hu cards |
| 05:12.47 | Gnarfoz | French guys, hmm, I can only find stuff about German guys and they seem to have removed their product |
| 05:13.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Vonhinten (n=Kiss@c-98-192-131-177.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 05:13.26 | Dagmar | HDFury, as far as I know, are in France |
| 05:13.39 | Dagmar | Their site's freakin' registered out of China now tho |
| 05:13.39 | Gnarfoz | yeah, I just switched back to IRC and saw the link |
| 05:13.49 | Gnarfoz | mine was "Spatz Tech" |
| 05:13.57 | Dagmar | "Intellectual Property? We LOVE your intellectual property!" |
| 05:14.14 | Gnarfoz | DVI magic & DVI HDCP or something, I remember reading about it in c't |
| 05:14.30 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:14.40 | Fisker | Gnarfoz |
| 05:14.48 | Gnarfoz | Fisker: you're unstoppable? |
| 05:14.54 | Fisker | hands Gnarfoz a handful of snot |
| 05:15.00 | Gnarfoz | thanks |
| 05:15.09 | Fisker | inorite? |
| 05:17.41 | Bruners | Fisker: come click my zandalar honor tokens for me |
| 05:18.06 | Dagmar | Isn't there an addon to do that for you by now |
| 05:20.23 | Amarande | Bruners: Account sharing! You're B&! |
| 05:21.00 | Bruners | Amarande: how is having Fisker click my mouse account sharing ? |
| 05:21.26 | Amarande | heh, it's a little sad in a sense that Blizzard is so anti account sharing now |
| 05:21.40 | Amarande | given how account sharing made one of, for instance, their previous games probably a lot more on the gaming charts |
| 05:21.50 | Amarande | Remember RUSSBarb? :) |
| 05:22.11 | Gnarfoz | no, but GERBarb! :P |
| 05:24.58 | Thunder_Child | i just realized that true lies has one of the uglies cast of characters in a move |
| 05:25.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@99-57-35-190.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:25.31 | Amarande | Back in the days of Diablo II, they didn't mind account sharing so much, and it was account sharers who probably made the game more popular with that frenzied rush to 99! |
| 05:25.38 | Amarande | Now they don't want you to share accounts anymore. |
| 05:25.50 | Amarande | And based on the changes to XP in Diablo II, I'm not sure they want you to get to level 99 anymore, either. :) |
| 05:26.59 | Dagmar | What would be the point |
| 05:27.24 | Dagmar | If they set it's max level to 3,000, there'd be no-life hamsters who would play the same missions over and over until they got to 3,000 |
| 05:27.47 | Amarande | Heh, there were actually fan mods for Diablo II that pretty much did that |
| 05:29.23 | Dagmar | Hmm... I am slowly gathering from the CO forums that their average player is a little slow |
| 05:30.02 | Dagmar | I finished a public mission I was underpowered for with the top score that happened to be 1337 and got three calls of "OMGHAX" |
| 05:30.29 | Dagmar | Felt kinda like I was talking to the kids on the short bus |
| 05:35.17 | Jerub | omg i love that movie |
| 05:39.11 | bleeter | oO |
| 05:39.15 | bleeter | "We will not be conducting our usual weekly maintenance during the week of Tuesday, 9/15/09. There will be no planned downtime, and no server-wide restarts. " |
| 05:40.00 | Dagmar | We should go on the forums and demand to be charged more |
| 05:40.28 | Gnarfoz | bleeter: oO indeed |
| 05:40.33 | WobWork | this is an outrage |
| 05:40.38 | WobWork | I planned for the night off =P |
| 05:40.46 | bleeter | I'm looking for the lines which say that Oceania gets this later, yet when the clock ticks over we get it at the same time as everyone else... |
| 05:41.19 | WobWork | damn their insensitivity =P |
| 05:41.48 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 05:42.35 | Bruners | 226 clicks later, exalted! |
| 05:43.06 | WobWork | Bruners: time to download autohandin? |
| 05:43.40 | NightHawkTheSane | man, the number of kayne west mockery images on reddit borders on absurd |
| 05:44.11 | Dagmar | That's because Kanye's an idiot |
| 05:44.21 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, no argument. |
| 05:44.41 | bleeter | i'll argue it |
| 05:44.52 | bleeter | calling him an idiot is insensitive to idiots!!! |
| 05:45.05 | NightHawkTheSane | meh, who cares about them, they're idiots ;) |
| 05:45.24 | WobWork | he's got a point... idiot =P |
| 05:46.25 | _rane | aside ffrom recount, is there an addon for showing how someone died in arenas etc. |
| 05:48.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (n=WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 05:50.34 | NightHawkTheSane | if you won, they did good, if you lost, they didn't ;) |
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| 05:54.37 | Gnarfoz | _rane: Acheron, Expiration, GrimReaper? |
| 05:54.48 | _rane | GrimReaper rings some bells, thanks |
| 05:55.44 | Amarande | agh! |
| 05:55.56 | Amarande | I think I discovered a sight worse than Yogg-Saron's Lunatic Gaze |
| 05:56.19 | Amarande | it's called ... having a far view distance while trying to fly through icecrown and realizing you're near the south end and able to see dalaran ... :( |
| 05:56.31 | Amarande | Pretty much the Medusa View. Heh. |
| 05:56.40 | Jerub | ahh, dalaran, the city of lag. |
| 05:57.12 | Gnarfoz | city of low fps? |
| 05:57.17 | Amarande | heh |
| 05:57.23 | Amarande | there's worse things lag-wise than being *in* dalaran |
| 05:57.40 | Amarande | flying around SE icecrown/NW crystalsong and getting an aerial view of dalaran is probably the worst of all :) |
| 05:57.56 | _rane | you mean fps-wise? |
| 05:58.24 | Amarande | yeah, heh |
| 05:58.34 | Amarande | I didn't realize I could see dalaran from this far, either |
| 05:59.09 | Jerub | too often i've flown into lagaran and gone into the inn or the badge vendors place, and had to wait while the vendors and the mobs appear. |
| 05:59.18 | Jerub | (and myself, for that matter, I'm just a shadow on the gournd for a while) |
| 05:59.43 | _rane | what a great idea from blizzard to design a city like that knowing it couldn't house all the players without lag |
| 05:59.52 | Amarande | http://www.lunasanguine.com/images/WoWScrnShot_091509_015343.jpg <- LAGGY VIEW :) |
| 06:01.50 | Amarande | Like I said, I didn't think I was that close to Dalaran. :) |
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| 06:07.50 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont really lag in dal.. |
| 06:08.14 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: being in the same continent as the servers helps. |
| 06:08.28 | NightHawkTheSane | probably. ;) |
| 06:08.58 | _rane | are you saying their servers couldn't have certain amount of people bandwidth-wise? |
| 06:09.22 | _rane | because according to my experiences it gets laggy when there's too many people |
| 06:09.51 | Jerub | _rane: i always find dalaran useless during peak times. hearthing will result in a logout, and framerate drops to nothing |
| 06:14.01 | Jerub | but this is australia, where 300ms is a good ping |
| 06:14.04 | Gnarfoz | I've never experienced performance as low as that. |
| 06:14.12 | Gnarfoz | and I highly doubt it's network related |
| 06:15.58 | _rane | it's not |
| 06:17.01 | Shirik | wow |
| 06:17.03 | Shirik | firefighter is intense |
| 06:17.22 | ZorbaTHut | I am saved to four separate raids right now. I'm not sure I've ever been saved to more |
| 06:18.34 | Gnarfoz | I'm certain I've been saved to more |
| 06:18.39 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: yes, it is |
| 06:18.47 | Gnarfoz | even after the nerfs ^^ |
| 06:18.50 | Gnarfoz | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1212013/Revealed-The-ghost-fleet-recession.html <-- eery |
| 06:21.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:22.35 | ZorbaTHut | I sort of wonder how much of that is "economy" and how much of that is "increasingly digital" |
| 06:22.58 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, I can tell you what the majority of my entertainment money has been spent on in the last few months, and the few parts that needed to be shipped are very, very small |
| 06:28.47 | kd3 | wow |
| 06:28.48 | tem | Shirik, 10 or 25? |
| 06:28.50 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 06:28.52 | kd3 | no maintenance this week |
| 06:28.59 | Shirik | doing 10 now, tem, but both |
| 06:29.19 | tem | I've only ever done 10 |
| 06:29.23 | tem | it was a BLAST |
| 06:29.34 | tem | probably the most fun I've had in ulduar so far |
| 06:29.35 | Shirik | lol |
| 06:29.36 | Shirik | I get it |
| 06:29.36 | Shirik | blast |
| 06:29.49 | tem | useewatididthere? |
| 06:30.01 | tem | (but seriously, that fight is awesome) |
| 06:30.43 | Shirik | oh I'm loving it |
| 06:30.48 | Shirik | it's everything I love about being a priest healer |
| 06:31.01 | tem | Tanking it was amazing |
| 06:31.16 | tem | on our first kill, I resisted a shock blast >.> |
| 06:31.26 | tem | in phase 4! |
| 06:31.34 | tem | I didn't quite get far enough from it |
| 06:31.41 | Shirik | bad |
| 06:31.41 | tem | and then I got obscenely lucky :) |
| 06:40.02 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 06:52.42 | Thunder_Child | ...ok, the MMO simcity has crossed the line of stupidity |
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| 07:03.08 | Shirik | woot |
| 07:03.09 | Shirik | firefighter done |
| 07:03.14 | Shirik | tem that was the most fun I've had in a while :) |
| 07:05.16 | Jerub | :( I'm 2 mobs from my naxx 10 achievement. doesn't look like i'll be able to do KT today before shutdown, and I need to do heigan again. |
| 07:10.58 | Elkano | Jerub, just extend the id ;) |
| 07:11.36 | Elkano | (well, you most likely wont find anyone coming with you then but well, it's possible...) |
| 07:14.28 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:18.33 | tem | grats, Shirik :) |
| 07:18.38 | tem | get your rusted drake yet? |
| 07:18.59 | Shirik | no :< |
| 07:19.08 | Arrowmaster | woh fallout1 fallout2 and fallout tactices on steam.... does that mean they patched it to actually run on a newer graphics card? |
| 07:19.16 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: !!! |
| 07:19.20 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: DON'T TELL ME THESE THINGS |
| 07:19.47 | tem | Shirik, me either... I'm just short One Light |
| 07:20.02 | tem | we've done it as a group, but never went back |
| 07:20.03 | Arrowmaster | i had to apply a bunch of unofficial patches to get fallout2 to run on my 5 year old pc |
| 07:20.12 | tem | I also need yogg with no deaths for Champions |
| 07:20.17 | tem | I probably won't get either :( |
| 07:20.29 | tem | just because we don't really do uld10 anymore |
| 07:24.49 | _rane | any ideas why Quartz doesn't have option for having target name on focus castbar while target castbar does? is it technically impossible? |
| 07:25.02 | _rane | because if not, I'm gonna hack it in |
| 07:26.49 | Arrowmaster | Jerub: seems the steam version of fallout2 is broken |
| 07:26.56 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: thank god for that |
| 07:28.27 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:39.35 | Arrowmaster | it seems interplay stole some fan made unofficial patches and mods for fallout2, included one of them in an official fallout trilogy (guessing the 3rd one is tactics not 3) box for stores and included both of them in the version they gave to steam for distribution |
| 07:40.34 | Arrowmaster | then it seems something happened and everybody using steam got a mixed version one with english quest text, french intro movie and menus, and no children like the uk version |
| 07:40.35 | Corrodias | innnteresting... |
| 07:42.59 | Arrowmaster | fallout2 wont even run on vista without one of the fan patches it seems, the other fan patch is a big mod that effects gameplay but isnt completely stable |
| 07:44.04 | Arrowmaster | interplay is just trying to milk some more cash without actually doing anything it seems |
| 07:46.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (i=vschiu@adsl-76-253-94-106.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:48.23 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 07:48.30 | Fisker | should i get the wow magzine for the lulz? |
| 07:48.53 | Shirik | you should get 42 magazines |
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| 08:02.20 | Bruners | http://www.wwtdd.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/toosoonjpg.jpg |
| 08:05.59 | Fisker | 9i890oyou know what Shirik? |
| 08:06.04 | Fisker | fffuuu cat |
| 08:06.14 | Fisker | i'll order 1000 copies of the wowmagazine to your doorstep |
| 08:06.42 | Shirik | kk |
| 08:07.09 | Shirik | have fun paying |
| 08:11.17 | Fisker | i will |
| 08:11.27 | Fisker | have fun paying for a clean up |
| 08:12.44 | devZero | ... |
| 08:14.02 | tem|afk | Fisker, that's actually mail fraud in the US |
| 08:14.09 | tem|afk | and a federal crime |
| 08:14.20 | tem|afk | so enjoy getting raped in prison |
| 08:14.39 | devZero | this just gets worse and worse |
| 08:17.12 | Fisker | i'm not in the US tem |
| 08:17.19 | Fisker | pwnt |
| 08:17.29 | Fisker | Though it doesn't matter |
| 08:17.35 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 08:17.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
| 08:17.48 | Fisker | as the government would just use one of their new "terror" laws to extradite me to the US |
| 08:17.54 | Fisker | because i'm such a terrorist |
| 08:17.57 | Shirik | Fisker could get away with it |
| 08:18.03 | Shirik | he is the ultratroll |
| 08:19.54 | Fisker | anyone recall the quest that gives you access to the knights of the ebon blade? |
| 08:19.58 | Fisker | need tabard! |
| 08:21.06 | Fisker | looks like i found it already |
| 08:21.18 | Fisker | i'm awesome like that |
| 08:21.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Codayus (i=cody@lilly.csoft.net) |
| 08:24.56 | Fisker | i lovehate sick of clicking dailies |
| 08:25.10 | Fisker | because i love it when it doesn't log me out because i forgot to turnin the daily |
| 08:25.17 | Fisker | but i hate it because it doesn't log me out |
| 08:27.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@76-231-27-217.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 08:30.02 | industrial | I love idQUestAutomation because it probably does the same but then for all quests ingame \:D/ |
| 08:30.29 | industrial | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Terenas&n=Mymilkshake |
| 08:30.37 | industrial | Fisker: beholy my new fake pally! |
| 08:30.56 | industrial | hehe, nice typo, beholy |
| 08:36.11 | Fisker | :o |
| 08:50.27 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 08:58.20 | Shirik | when do servers go down? |
| 09:01.09 | Zyn | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/23/19820636189-no-weekly-maintenance--91509.html |
| 09:01.26 | Zyn | dunno if it's in EU too |
| 09:02.31 | devZero | ugh... finally finished w/ zang |
| 09:03.05 | Corrodias | i'd love to hear the story behind the boat |
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| 09:13.21 | Fisker | i can't remember the last time EU had rolling restarts |
| 09:13.29 | Fisker | :O |
| 09:13.33 | Fisker | not even rolling restarts |
| 09:13.35 | Fisker | no maintanence |
| 09:15.35 | Zyn | I remember my server having almost DAILY maintenance ;< |
| 09:24.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124.170.123.52) |
| 09:37.08 | Shirik | I just completed yogg +1 with 2 sanity left |
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| 09:43.50 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 09:47.53 | ZorbaTHut | who really needs sanity anyway |
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| 09:48.19 | *** part/#wowuidev Lonny` (n=anonymou@bzq-84-109-210-254.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 09:49.47 | Fisker | i can do that as well Shirik |
| 09:51.37 | Shirik | Fisker your sanity is already gone |
| 09:54.42 | Fisker | Yeah i can never die on yogg :( |
| 09:54.54 | Fisker | i'm kinda like Fry |
| 09:54.59 | Fisker | except i'm not my own grandpa |
| 09:55.01 | Fisker | ...yet |
| 10:01.43 | Shirik | temporal logic is so confusing |
| 10:01.49 | Shirik | changing the past doesn't make any sense |
| 10:07.04 | Jerub | what does /camp do? |
| 10:07.39 | Fisker | omg |
| 10:07.42 | Fisker | you're new to mmo's booo |
| 10:07.44 | Fisker | get out! |
| 10:07.53 | Fisker | /camp is logging out |
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| 10:29.28 | NiLon_ | to became elite - you need to be elite |
| 10:37.44 | industrial | Fisker: only because one certain MMO intoduced that. |
| 10:38.10 | industrial | wow has that to make people feel comfortable etc |
| 10:49.54 | Wobin | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1213383/Megan-Fox-dumb-rock-claim-Transformers-film-crew.html |
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| 11:08.34 | nevcairiel | who cares Wobin |
| 11:08.39 | nevcairiel | don't have to talk to her |
| 11:09.02 | Wobin | just feel sorry for those that work with her =P |
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| 12:24.42 | airtonix | wtb website link from wence this came from : http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/180039/humour/20060219.gif |
| 12:25.58 | airtonix | actually nvm |
| 12:26.27 | Wobin | like.. the page on the side of the image? =P |
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| 12:56.01 | mikma | anyone knows the cure for windows that keeps logging me out after some time of inactivity (keeps programs running tho) |
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| 13:02.32 | Wobin | mikma: turn off the "Lock computer when idle" under screensavers? |
| 13:03.47 | mikma | wobin: almost that... |
| 13:03.57 | mikma | there's this "On resume, display Welcome screen" |
| 13:04.10 | mikma | it was checked... and why is it checked? i have NO idea |
| 13:04.58 | mikma | wobin: but good guess anyway |
| 13:05.08 | mikma | let's hope that does the trick |
| 13:05.49 | Wobin | what an awesome looking frog: http://www.amphibia.boo.pl/galeria/anura/theloderma_corticale/theloderma_corticale_1.jpg |
| 13:06.28 | mikma | homer would love that |
| 13:07.26 | Wobin | Also, wow, the US has not taken up the Darwin movie |
| 13:07.46 | mikma | of course not |
| 13:07.49 | mikma | in god they trust |
| 13:07.52 | mikma | not in darwin! |
| 13:07.59 | Wobin | Cause they deem a movie about Darwin and his "struggle between faith and reason" to be 'inappropriate' |
| 13:08.08 | foxlit | there is a darwin movie? |
| 13:08.18 | Wobin | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6173399/Charles-Darwin-film-too-controversial-for-religious-America.html |
| 13:08.21 | mikma | hah! so it was about god |
| 13:09.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Textmode (n=boneidle@adsl-syd-3-172.ozonline.com.au) |
| 13:09.30 | mikma | man, i hate when my jokes prove to be the correct reason |
| 13:09.41 | Wobin | Sadly true |
| 13:10.30 | *** join/#wowuidev FaceCannon (n=face@chil-nrp2-cs-151.vdsl.bright.net) |
| 13:10.44 | FaceCannon | hey can anyone tell me an lua function to repair the players items?? |
| 13:11.53 | Wobin | Some kids stack cups.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irykjLjuKo8&feature=player_embedded |
| 13:12.03 | FaceCannon | *sigh*& |
| 13:12.15 | Wobin | FaceCannon: Have you looked at the API? |
| 13:12.34 | FaceCannon | Sorry, i am clueless. |
| 13:12.34 | Wobin | PS, we're so terribly sorry we don't drop everything to answer you RIGHT AWAY |
| 13:12.56 | Textmode | what was that, about 20s? |
| 13:13.01 | Wobin | Go, have a browse through the API functions on wowprogramming.com |
| 13:13.07 | Textmode | with lag, prolly less... |
| 13:13.17 | Wobin | Textmode: We're slacking |
| 13:13.34 | FaceCannon | lol |
| 13:13.42 | FaceCannon | Wait, |
| 13:13.49 | FaceCannon | I wasnt rushing you. |
| 13:14.08 | FaceCannon | I would hate for someone to um..... think i was like freking out "THERE NOT ANSWERING ME"! |
| 13:14.28 | FaceCannon | Ty for the quick response |
| 13:16.24 | FaceCannon | hey um, does the api apply to server side lua? |
| 13:16.50 | Wobin | how do you mean? |
| 13:17.26 | FaceCannon | Like I am making, a gossip item. |
| 13:17.31 | FaceCannon | That would repair items |
| 13:17.44 | Wobin | I'm not quite following. A gossip item? |
| 13:17.52 | FaceCannon | oh sorry |
| 13:17.53 | FaceCannon | And item |
| 13:18.07 | Wobin | .. are you perhaps running on a private server? |
| 13:18.09 | FaceCannon | An item in your bag, that when you click it brings up a menu |
| 13:18.46 | FaceCannon | Yes, will i instantly be flamed now? |
| 13:18.59 | Wobin | Alas, yes. |
| 13:19.11 | Wobin | You'll be offered no support, I'm afraid. |
| 13:19.27 | FaceCannon | Its not like its some crazy private server, |
| 13:19.34 | FaceCannon | Its just some junk running on my pc |
| 13:19.42 | FaceCannon | for me and my old school buddies |
| 13:19.43 | Wobin | in any case, chances are pretty good that we just don't know, cause we don't -use- the server side lua |
| 13:19.55 | FaceCannon | K, ty. |
| 13:20.50 | FaceCannon | So, the api is all client side correct? |
| 13:20.57 | Wobin | indeed |
| 13:21.03 | FaceCannon | Tyvm |
| 13:21.42 | Cruciformer | hey kids |
| 13:22.47 | Cruciformer | anyone have strong opinions about an LDB display mod? I want to get rid of fubar |
| 13:22.58 | Wobin | I like ninja panel |
| 13:23.01 | Wobin | cause IJW |
| 13:23.04 | Cruciformer | Im thinking of ninjapanel coz I trust cladhaire |
| 13:23.23 | Cruciformer | IJW? |
| 13:23.29 | Wobin | It Just Works |
| 13:23.45 | Wobin | I don't bother anymore with massive configuration |
| 13:23.47 | Cruciformer | like most thingd clad does :) |
| 13:24.05 | Cruciformer | s/thingd/things/; |
| 13:24.26 | Wobin | clad is very good at minimising complexity in configuration =) |
| 13:24.43 | jnwhiteh | or lazy |
| 13:24.45 | jnwhiteh | depends on the addon :P |
| 13:25.08 | Cruciformer | so ninjapanel is it? no others worth checking out? |
| 13:25.11 | jnwhiteh | the NinjaPanel code isn't terrible either |
| 13:25.15 | jnwhiteh | if you don't need a centered panel |
| 13:25.18 | jnwhiteh | or more than one panel |
| 13:25.21 | jnwhiteh | then yeah, it works great :P |
| 13:25.30 | jnwhiteh | and the lack of those is only due to mine and PProvost's time. |
| 13:25.31 | Cruciformer | i like centered panels |
| 13:25.35 | jnwhiteh | or anyone else who wants to jump on board |
| 13:25.40 | jnwhiteh | adding a centered section wouldn't be too hard |
| 13:25.43 | jnwhiteh | just no one has done it yet. |
| 13:26.16 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (i=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 13:26.24 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 13:26.35 | Wobin | there's also ChocolateBar I've heard of |
| 13:26.39 | Wobin | not tried though |
| 13:26.48 | Cruciformer | 2 people in my guild said to avoid it |
| 13:26.54 | jnwhiteh | mitch0 is working on a new "fubar" panel |
| 13:26.57 | jnwhiteh | i'm sure it'll be nice |
| 13:27.07 | Wobin | I say give ninja a go |
| 13:27.11 | jnwhiteh | i could tell you exactly what I _wont_ add to NinjaPanel |
| 13:27.16 | jnwhiteh | if you ask |
| 13:27.22 | jnwhiteh | and then you know whether to look elsewhere :P |
| 13:27.28 | Wobin | if it's insufficient, you can bug mitch0 =) |
| 13:27.29 | Cruciformer | wossat? |
| 13:27.52 | Elkano | jnwhiteh, HoN? ;) |
| 13:27.56 | mikma | cruciformer: 2 people in your guild have no idea what they are talking about, therefore making them complete morons. :) |
| 13:27.57 | jnwhiteh | can't, righ tnow |
| 13:28.03 | jnwhiteh | working on stuff atm =/ |
| 13:28.11 | jnwhiteh | fucking erlang. |
| 13:28.13 | Cruciformer | mika: If only it were only 2 :) |
| 13:28.17 | Elkano | k ^^ |
| 13:29.10 | Cruciformer | <- would like wowinterface to have a different section for broker displayers versus data suppliers |
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| 13:41.26 | Cruciformer | mikma: So I gather chocaltebar is your ldb displayer of choice? |
| 13:43.05 | mikma | mine is NinjaPanel :) |
| 13:43.40 | Elkano | I still use Fortress |
| 13:43.50 | Cruciformer | so other than not being able to center stuff, can it at least left or right-justify things? |
| 13:44.01 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraioc_ (n=tomh@client0033.vpn.ox.ac.uk) |
| 13:44.01 | Elkano | and that proves that my initial design idea was a total success :) |
| 13:44.13 | jnwhiteh | Cruciformer: of course, you just drag and drop them where you want the. |
| 13:44.19 | jnwhiteh | its tiny, best bet is to just download it and see. |
| 13:44.51 | Cruciformer | ya I think I'll do just that |
| 13:44.55 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (i=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 13:52.14 | Cruciformer | what is next in the sequence: primary, secondary, tertiary .... |
| 13:52.41 | Cruciformer | is there a word for the 4th option? |
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| 13:53.38 | Wobin | quartery |
| 13:53.46 | Wobin | or maybe quaternary |
| 13:53.48 | Cruciformer | yeah? |
| 13:53.59 | Cruciformer | oh u r guessing I thought you were asserting :) |
| 13:54.16 | Wobin | Quaternary |
| 13:55.12 | Cruciformer | ty wobin :) And I am guessing 5th would be quinternary? |
| 13:55.42 | Wobin | quinary, senery, septenary, octonary, nonary, denary |
| 13:55.55 | Wobin | nothing for eleventh, I don't think, twelfth is duodenary |
| 13:56.02 | Wobin | and twentieth is vigenary |
| 13:56.13 | Cruciformer | lol where did u find this? :) |
| 13:56.21 | Wobin | http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/primary |
| 13:56.55 | Cruciformer | <3 wobin :) I was actually thinking before i typed the question "I wonder if the OED has an ask the experts entry on it" :P |
| 13:57.16 | Wobin | They're so clever =) |
| 13:57.27 | Cruciformer | smarmy bastards lol |
| 14:00.38 | Wobin | hehe. "Clowder" is the most commonly cited collective noun for cats |
| 14:00.40 | Cruciformer | ha! |
| 14:00.50 | Cruciformer | I can add to their faq |
| 14:01.02 | Cruciformer | http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/vowels?view=uk |
| 14:01.35 | Wobin | add to it? |
| 14:01.42 | Cruciformer | they forgot about the word "onomatopoeia" which also has 4 vowels, and the alternate spelling for its adjective, onomatopoeiaic which has 5. |
| 14:02.04 | Cruciformer | although the normal spelling is onomatopoeic |
| 14:03.04 | Wobin | hehe 'semordnilap' |
| 14:03.23 | Wobin | a proposed term for a word which is another word spelt backwards =P |
| 14:04.30 | Grum | Wobin: epic :) |
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| 14:06.50 | Cruciformer | i wanna know what the official phobia is for frogs, coz I have it, I am deathly afraid of frogs. some say batracaphobia, and theres another word too which I forget. |
| 14:08.13 | Wobin | Ranidophobia? |
| 14:08.26 | Wobin | I saw a photo of a really cool looking frog earlier today |
| 14:08.29 | Wobin | but I won't link it =P |
| 14:09.10 | Cruciformer | Rhabdophobia |
| 14:09.26 | Cruciformer | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:09.26 | Cruciformer | I bet thailand has that in abbundance |
| 14:09.30 | Cruciformer | *fat=fear |
| 14:09.36 | Wobin | nah, that's Singapore you're thinking of |
| 14:09.40 | Wobin | and Malaysia |
| 14:09.42 | Cruciformer | meh |
| 14:09.45 | Wobin | with the rattan caning |
| 14:09.46 | Cruciformer | all teh same to me |
| 14:09.58 | Cruciformer | I thiought thailand did it too |
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| 14:10.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 14:10.06 | Wobin | pft, get your southeast asian geography straight =P |
| 14:10.10 | Wobin | they probably do |
| 14:10.25 | Wobin | but it's less advertised |
| 14:11.12 | Cruciformer | personally Im all for public canings |
| 14:11.23 | Cruciformer | hell I got enough of them when I was in school |
| 14:11.36 | Wobin | and look how -you- turned out! =) |
| 14:11.43 | Lopeppeppy | What are geogriphaies? |
| 14:11.53 | *** part/#wowuidev Textmode (n=boneidle@adsl-syd-3-172.ozonline.com.au) |
| 14:12.07 | Cruciformer | I turned out just fine (he says as he wuipes the blood off his axe and fires up the woodchipper) |
| 14:13.10 | Cruciformer | bbl got to go to teh store afore it closes |
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| 15:03.32 | haste | Bruners: poke |
| 15:03.41 | Bruners | haste: hi |
| 15:03.55 | haste | Bruners: kagon wants to cut you! |
| 15:04.02 | Bruners | aww |
| 15:04.21 | haste | also known as gems are needed :p |
| 15:04.34 | Bruners | uhm, grim batol down |
| 15:04.40 | Bruners | or offline as it says |
| 15:04.45 | haste | yep, it just died :p |
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| 15:26.54 | cog|work | construction workers should provide complimentary pain killers for the headaches they induce imo... |
| 15:27.22 | Cruciformer | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:27.48 | cog|work | chances are they know where to get the best ones too... |
| 15:27.53 | cog|work | slaps his wrist |
| 15:35.34 | Lopeppeppy | Nom nom nom. |
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| 15:45.01 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 15:45.03 | Fisker | my fucking ssd |
| 15:45.05 | Fisker | it's being sent |
| 15:46.13 | Bruners | Fisker: x25? |
| 15:47.55 | Fisker | yes |
| 15:49.23 | Bruners | nice |
| 15:50.33 | Fisker | http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1253028633404.png |
| 15:50.40 | Lopeppeppy | SFW? |
| 15:50.46 | Bruners | yes |
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| 15:51.11 | durcyn | it's fisker, not even safe for planet earth |
| 15:52.01 | Lopeppeppy | That's my usual default, durcyn. :) |
| 15:52.44 | Fisker | that makes me sad :( |
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| 15:57.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:59.52 | Lopeppeppy | That image freezes my IE. What the hell. |
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| 16:03.26 | Bruners | Lopeppeppy: and now the question, why are you using IE in the first place |
| 16:04.24 | Lopeppeppy | I have all links that I click on open in IE, so as not to somehow accidentally crash, close or annoy my work broswer, FF. |
| 16:05.50 | foxlit | teehee, "I use IE because FF is fragile" <3 |
| 16:06.20 | Lopeppeppy | Well, not "fragile", but if I somehow bork it, I could lose a lot of work, which I prefer not to. |
| 16:10.00 | Bruners | may i ask what work you could loose if firefox crashes? |
| 16:10.27 | Bruners | if firefox crashes for some stupid extension i just start it up and continue |
| 16:10.44 | durcyn | she loses her porn, okay, back off. |
| 16:11.29 | Lopeppeppy | Bruners, sometimes it can't recover some of the form work I do. I prefer not to risk my work, so I open links in another browser. |
| 16:13.02 | kdtresh | understandable, but... ie? |
| 16:13.23 | foxlit | ie works(tm). |
| 16:14.08 | foxlit | Just ask fisker :) |
| 16:14.50 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (n=gdbzet26@79.239.235.149) |
| 16:14.57 | *** part/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 16:16.05 | mikma | so |
| 16:16.11 | mikma | linux and windows games. do they mix? |
| 16:17.03 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 16:17.26 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, you mean like WoW? |
| 16:17.28 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 16:17.41 | mikma | i mean like... |
| 16:17.49 | mikma | Marvel - Ultimate Alliance |
| 16:17.54 | mikma | Fallout3 |
| 16:17.56 | mikma | ... |
| 16:18.21 | Lopeppeppy | I'm gonna guess you'd have graphics drivers issues... but go googlefu and see what you can find. |
| 16:18.56 | Bruners | http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94687-Norwegian-Man-Takes-Incredibly-Long-Incredibly-Geeky-Name the danish genes are strong in this one |
| 16:19.21 | mikma | bruners: you are about week late, haste already pasted that one ^^ |
| 16:20.14 | Bruners | mikma: i saw the norwegian version a week ago :P |
| 16:21.13 | mikma | but haste did show us a englist version! |
| 16:21.15 | mikma | haste rocks. |
| 16:21.36 | mikma | that dude still looks like a wookie. |
| 16:23.55 | *** join/#wowuidev sag_ich_nicht (i=bitch2k@85-127-116-141.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 16:28.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 16:28.16 | ArrowmasterClass | i want to know what the fuck IT did to this computer over the summer |
| 16:28.24 | Fisker | GEE WIZ ASUS |
| 16:28.28 | Fisker | THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP |
| 16:28.33 | ArrowmasterClass | everything i run off my flash drive is slow |
| 16:28.51 | Fisker | a new bios for my motherboard was released |
| 16:29.08 | Fisker | "*Please update Marvell 88SE6320 SAS Controller Firmware update Version 3.1.0.2300 after Bios update" |
| 16:29.31 | Fisker | So ok i followed the link and got the firmware for the controller, made a bootable usb drive and flashed my bios |
| 16:29.44 | Fisker | So i reboot and setup my bios, everything goes well |
| 16:30.03 | Fisker | And then the system locks up when booting |
| 16:30.07 | Fisker | Guess what the firmware fixed |
| 16:30.14 | Fisker | System cant pass POST if enable AHCI |
| 16:30.27 | Fisker | Which is funny since i have to get past the POST to actually flash it |
| 16:30.29 | Fisker | durr |
| 16:30.30 | Fisker | hurr |
| 16:30.33 | Fisker | derp derp derp |
| 16:31.01 | Fisker | Luckily i could reset it back to system defaults and disable the controller |
| 16:31.03 | Fisker | but i lol'd |
| 16:31.45 | Lopeppeppy | This is why I do not update these things... |
| 16:32.18 | Fisker | wanted to see if a bios update fixed some hdd oddities |
| 16:32.53 | kdtresh | my boss always wants to update stuff, even when there isn't a problem |
| 16:33.00 | kdtresh | 9 times out of 10 he breaks it |
| 16:33.20 | kdtresh | and then has to "go to a meeting" |
| 16:33.24 | kdtresh | so i get to fix it |
| 16:34.28 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, that's my grand boss too. |
| 16:34.30 | Fisker | and you get to still have a job |
| 16:34.33 | Fisker | isn't it great? |
| 16:34.57 | Lopeppeppy | Maybe. |
| 16:35.28 | kdtresh | it's possible there is a fantastic opportunity just waiting for me to leave this place |
| 16:35.41 | kdtresh | but i wouldn't hold my breath |
| 16:36.13 | kdtresh | at least i can play wow, that makes an idiot boss easier to handle |
| 16:37.43 | kdtresh | i use wow to proactively diagnose network latency issues before users complain |
| 16:40.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (n=Sixen@173-25-22-158.client.mchsi.com) |
| 16:49.29 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:49.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:00.32 | foxlit | hop 2 1043.532 ms 997.536 ms 1094.244 ms |
| 17:00.35 | foxlit | yikes. |
| 17:01.14 | Ackis | with wow metres online can you search/save all submitted reports with your info? |
| 17:10.39 | foxlit | sighs. |
| 17:10.54 | foxlit | Foiled again :/ |
| 17:12.44 | Ackis | i'm having issues getting the pick of the week in RSS format :( |
| 17:13.37 | Lopeppeppy | Hmm? |
| 17:14.16 | Ackis | I can't get it to work lol I'm just getting wowi's site news which I have already |
| 17:14.32 | Lopeppeppy | I just added it to my news feed, we'll see what I get. |
| 17:15.18 | Lopeppeppy | Takes me to pick of the week no problem. |
| 17:16.01 | Ackis | hm |
| 17:16.13 | Lopeppeppy | I'm adding news to see what it gives me. |
| 17:17.23 | Ackis | on another note, I always find wowi confusing to navigate for me heh |
| 17:18.03 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (n=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 17:21.10 | Lopeppeppy | Hey, trying to add that RSS crashed my reader. Neat. |
| 17:21.15 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-7f7be155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:21.53 | Ackis | heh |
| 17:29.50 | foxlit | Lopeppeppy: it seems that applications around you tend to crash :) |
| 17:30.20 | Ackis | she should be careful on the drive home |
| 17:31.17 | Lopeppeppy | Ackis! You watch your mouth, my car might hear you. |
| 17:31.31 | Lopeppeppy | Foxlit, it is well known that Windoze is unstable, and I don't have enough RAM for what I do. |
| 17:35.43 | roastx | i dont remember the last time windows crashed |
| 17:36.06 | Lopeppeppy | You are luckier than I am. |
| 17:36.17 | roastx | yer one of those linux commies arent you |
| 17:37.50 | Lopeppeppy | No, I use windows exclusively. |
| 17:38.21 | roastx | i dual boot vista and 7 |
| 17:38.25 | durcyn | there's a special level of hell reserved for windows users |
| 17:38.30 | roastx | but i havent had any reason to go back to vista |
| 17:38.32 | durcyn | wherein they will be forced to use windows for eternity |
| 17:38.45 | foxlit | durcyn: I'm not sure I understand the reasoning. |
| 17:38.49 | roastx | i love windows |
| 17:38.52 | alestane | Durcyn: I was going to say, "Yes, it's called 'Windows'." |
| 17:38.53 | foxlit | They're already suffering, what's the point in prolonging it? |
| 17:39.04 | roastx | shutup you communists |
| 17:39.14 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo_ (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFCFB6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:39.37 | Lopeppeppy | I'm already in hell, durcyn. |
| 17:39.42 | alestane | My wife has decided to read a chapter a day of Windows Internals to debug her servers better. She has procleimed it heavy in fiber. |
| 17:39.44 | durcyn | I rest my case. |
| 17:40.27 | alestane | It bombards her with terms like "semaphore" and "fully re-entrant", some of which, thankfully, I understand. |
| 17:41.00 | Lopeppeppy | Poor Kat. Tell her my eyes bleed for her. |
| 17:41.13 | NeoTron_ | man and I thought the $200k mouse I posted yesterday was expensive. This is... wow http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002EUMI4 |
| 17:41.22 | NeoTron_ | but, nice 31% savings over retail |
| 17:41.29 | foxlit | alestane: perhaps the target audience for the book won't mind those terms :) |
| 17:42.24 | roastx | a little too rich for my blood |
| 17:42.56 | *** join/#wowuidev NightHawkTheSan1 (n=jonathan@63-231-37-97.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:45.12 | foxlit | After installing SL, I've discovered that the version of MS Office I do not use apparently requires Rosetta. |
| 17:45.54 | alestane | Does Snow Leopard not support Rosetta anymore? |
| 17:46.24 | durcyn | it's available, but not included by default |
| 17:46.36 | durcyn | shaves something like 5 gigs off the installation footprint, by some reports |
| 17:47.56 | Shirik | what is rosetta? |
| 17:48.13 | alestane | Rosetta runs PowerPC binaries on Intel Processors. |
| 17:48.37 | Slafsinator | rosetta is just a couple of megs |
| 17:48.40 | Slafsinator | doesn't shave off much :) |
| 17:48.41 | NightHawkTheSan1 | I was kinda surprised at how many apps i had that used it. |
| 17:48.54 | Slafsinator | shaving off PPC executables in every bundle OTOH, that shaved off more :) |
| 17:48.58 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ^^ |
| 17:53.49 | End | internet explorer sucks :( |
| 17:54.12 | alestane | There is no headache to being a gnome like having to go all the way to the top of teh steps to start casting. |
| 17:54.30 | Lopeppeppy | Or being underwater in the swamps while everyone else is running fine. |
| 17:55.06 | Dagmar | They moved the POV point from the feet finally? |
| 17:55.16 | Lopeppeppy | You can do that yourself... |
| 17:55.22 | End | for a gnome it doesn't matter where the POV is |
| 17:55.33 | Dagmar | The POV point used for LOS calculations for casting? |
| 17:55.34 | End | their foot bone connects to their neck bone |
| 17:55.34 | Lopeppeppy | We're still too damn short. |
| 17:56.01 | Dagmar | You can't move that yourself |
| 17:56.05 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure |
| 17:56.12 | Dagmar | <-- dwarf hunter |
| 17:56.26 | Dagmar | <-- long since used to climbing extra stairs, but it's got nothing to do with shortness |
| 17:56.46 | alestane | Frostbite + Shatter + Ignite = Unfair. |
| 17:57.33 | alestane | To the mobs, anyway. |
| 17:58.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:58.25 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 18:12.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (n=Mikk@78-73-111-137-no162.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:14.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (n=WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 18:14.50 | Pneumatus | bad times, i think the memory controler on my mobo is on its way out :< |
| 18:15.16 | Lopeppeppy | No fun. |
| 18:15.37 | Pneumatus | with 4 sticks of ram in it crashes constantly, if i take any one out it is fine |
| 18:16.05 | cbreak | does it matter which stick? |
| 18:16.09 | Pneumatus | nope :< |
| 18:16.10 | cbreak | does it matter which slot? |
| 18:16.12 | Pneumatus | nope |
| 18:16.15 | cbreak | are the sticks the same configuration? |
| 18:16.24 | Pneumatus | matched pairs, yes |
| 18:16.27 | Pneumatus | well, they are all the same |
| 18:16.36 | cbreak | so with three it works? weird |
| 18:16.41 | Pneumatus | but if i take 1 stick out which forces it to run single-channel, its fine |
| 18:16.47 | cbreak | and two? |
| 18:16.55 | Pneumatus | running with 2 in dualchannel works also |
| 18:16.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:17.00 | Pneumatus | but 2x dual channel doesnt |
| 18:17.03 | cbreak | weird. |
| 18:17.42 | Pneumatus | have run memcheck on each stick individually and its fine, with any 2 in either of the dualchannels its fine |
| 18:18.00 | Pneumatus | with 3, leaving each of the 4 slots empty its fine |
| 18:18.09 | Pneumatus | but 4 it crashes, and so does windows |
| 18:18.43 | Pneumatus | i wonder if updating my ancient bios would make any difference |
| 18:19.11 | Pneumatus | it was running fine till yesterday tho |
| 18:20.34 | cbreak | so the problem is not related with a config change? |
| 18:21.08 | Pneumatus | nope |
| 18:21.29 | Pneumatus | and it's crashing memtest from a cd, so it's not windows related either |
| 18:21.57 | cbreak | maybe CPU/Mainboard/Bus/Controller related |
| 18:22.09 | cbreak | or power related? hmm... |
| 18:22.16 | cbreak | memcheck should not crash |
| 18:22.41 | cbreak | at least not on memory errors outside it's own mem space |
| 18:22.45 | Pneumatus | with 4 ram sticks in, memcheck appears to crash when it's switching to check the 2nd channel's ram |
| 18:22.57 | Pneumatus | well, it just restarts |
| 18:22.59 | Pneumatus | back to bios |
| 18:23.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 18:23.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.05 | cbreak | I'd check the memory in an other system |
| 18:24.10 | cbreak | that way you can exclude it |
| 18:24.29 | cbreak | (although it does already seem quite excluded) |
| 18:24.31 | Pneumatus | not an option at the moment |
| 18:26.03 | *** join/#wowuidev joeymarx_ (n=hudlee@pool-72-72-31-202.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:29.10 | *** join/#wowuidev vince` (i=vschiu@adsl-76-253-94-106.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:32.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 18:32.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 18:33.05 | Shirik | rawr |
| 18:33.11 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 18:33.16 | Shirik | huggles Gryphen |
| 18:33.20 | Gryphen | huggles Shirik |
| 18:40.47 | Shirik | hi TC-Away |
| 18:40.52 | Shirik | hi Cide |
| 18:40.54 | Lopeppeppy | RAWR |
| 18:41.00 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 18:41.09 | Lopeppeppy | huggles Gryphen obligingly. |
| 18:41.10 | Shirik | hi Lopeppeppy |
| 18:41.12 | Gryphen | huggles Lopeppeppy obligingly. |
| 18:41.20 | Shirik | obligingly? |
| 18:41.38 | Lopeppeppy | I'm an obliging sort of girl today. |
| 18:41.56 | Lopeppeppy | Jones soda is doing D&D? Neat. |
| 18:42.27 | Shirik | ponders Lopeppeppy |
| 18:43.03 | Lopeppeppy | I am ponderable. |
| 18:43.41 | Cide | hi Shirik |
| 18:46.25 | alestane | obliges Lopeppeppy |
| 18:47.12 | Lopeppeppy | Aww, gee, you're swell, alestane! |
| 18:47.31 | alestane | *snrk* |
| 18:50.12 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:50.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:55.07 | Thunder_Child | thats rather eerie Shirik |
| 18:55.13 | Shirik | ? |
| 18:55.30 | Thunder_Child | i was tempted to say something to you just before you said hi |
| 18:55.39 | Shirik | that's because I'm awesome |
| 18:55.42 | Lopeppeppy | ooga booga |
| 18:57.30 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:57.32 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 18:57.34 | Fisker | <-ssd |
| 18:59.10 | NightHawkTheSan1 | hah, those jones soda flavors are amusing. |
| 18:59.29 | NightHawkTheSan1 | "illithid brain juice" yummy |
| 19:00.02 | Lopeppeppy | I totally want some. :) |
| 19:00.05 | Shirik | Fisker is a solid state device? |
| 19:00.18 | Keias | Jones Soda is amazing |
| 19:00.29 | Keias | Although the Turkey and Gravy flavor kinda scared me |
| 19:00.44 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Lopeppeppy: Yeah, i may have to go out of my way to get some of that.. |
| 19:00.50 | Shirik | ok, hm |
| 19:00.54 | Shirik | things not to say in your lab report |
| 19:01.22 | Shirik | "Honestly I didn't learn anything I didn't already know and felt this was a waste. Our data was spot on with only the resistance being slightly off in the beginning which is completely beyond control and I don't have the faintest clue as to why it happened." |
| 19:02.04 | Shirik | ... |
| 19:02.26 | Shirik | "VIII. Appendices: See result analysis because answering all those questions again would be a waste of my time." |
| 19:04.18 | Fisker | 15. september 2009 17:01 Data til forsendelse modtaget |
| 19:04.21 | Fisker | take that Shirik |
| 19:04.29 | Lopeppeppy | NHTS, I've never seen it in my area, I'm going to have to cruise a few grocery chains to see if anyone carries it. |
| 19:07.12 | Lopeppeppy | Doesn't look like it's for stores, only for ordering. |
| 19:07.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (n=WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 19:15.34 | Shirik | Fisker: Not the modtaget! |
| 19:15.50 | Shirik | Thunder_Child what were you going to say to me? :) |
| 19:15.51 | Shirik | :( |
| 19:16.17 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, it was somthing about you rawring...i forget now |
| 19:21.26 | Shirik | :( |
| 19:24.17 | Fisker | yes the modtaget Shirik ! |
| 19:25.23 | Shirik | Cide, what's a modtaget? |
| 19:25.37 | Shirik | ~x ne en modtaget |
| 19:25.52 | Shirik | I don't even know what language that is :( |
| 19:26.43 | foxlit | Failrik! |
| 19:26.47 | foxlit | It's fisker-tongue. |
| 19:26.59 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, recived |
| 19:27.06 | Thunder_Child | ~x de en modtaget |
| 19:27.19 | foxlit | ~x no en modtaget |
| 19:27.20 | Fisker | fail Thunder_Child |
| 19:27.33 | foxlit | c'mon, bokmål. Don't fail on me! |
| 19:27.35 | Fisker | lets built irc over google wave |
| 19:27.38 | Thunder_Child | err..whats danish |
| 19:27.40 | Fisker | built-in translations |
| 19:27.41 | Thunder_Child | 2 letter |
| 19:27.44 | Fisker | ~x dk en modtaget |
| 19:27.45 | Thunder_Child | thingy |
| 19:27.47 | Fisker | ~x da en modtaget |
| 19:27.48 | Shirik | I thought it was ne |
| 19:27.56 | foxlit | dutch, shirik? |
| 19:28.06 | Shirik | I dunno :( |
| 19:28.13 | Fisker | GOOGLE WAVE FOR IRC |
| 19:28.19 | NightHawkTheSan1 | dutch is nl, yeah? |
| 19:28.21 | Thunder_Child | it's 'received' in danish |
| 19:28.39 | Shirik | ~x do en modtaget |
| 19:28.42 | foxlit | Fisker: IRC FOR GOOGLE WAVE |
| 19:28.48 | foxlit | purl is hanging. |
| 19:28.49 | Shirik | ~x du en modtaget |
| 19:28.54 | Shirik | I think we broke purl :( |
| 19:28.59 | foxlit | ~en en de wave |
| 19:29.04 | foxlit | ~x en de wave |
| 19:29.06 | foxlit | ~~~~ |
| 19:29.07 | purl | ARGH!!! STOP IT foxlit!!! |
| 19:29.11 | Shirik | :P |
| 19:29.19 | NightHawkTheSan1 | its probably trying to figure out wtf "du", "do", and "dk" are supposed to be :P |
| 19:29.31 | foxlit | "da", too |
| 19:29.35 | NightHawkTheSan1 | da is danish |
| 19:29.40 | foxlit | Suffice to say, it seems to be unable to translate from fiskertongue. |
| 19:29.46 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSan1: it didn't answer to da either |
| 19:29.48 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep` (i=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 19:30.06 | NightHawkTheSan1 | foxlit: *shrug* hey, i was being sarcastic, i dont know whats up with purl. :P |
| 19:30.28 | foxlit | Minimal length of a sarcastic remark is 5 words :) |
| 19:30.31 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/09/14/funny-pictures-dis-oh-wait-dey-iz/ |
| 19:30.32 | Fisker | google wave |
| 19:30.49 | Fisker | irc |
| 19:31.01 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, was this you? (let me know if you can't see the posting) http://chronicle.com/blogPost/Student-Is-Charged-After-Van/8049/ |
| 19:31.21 | Shirik | .. |
| 19:31.32 | Shirik | I'm glad you have such confidence in me |
| 19:31.37 | Lopeppeppy | zenzelezz, awww. |
| 19:31.40 | zenzelezz | Shirik was busted |
| 19:31.49 | Lopeppeppy | Just making sure you're not getting into trouble with your speriments. |
| 19:32.16 | Shirik | ours is primarily electrical anyway |
| 19:32.18 | Lopeppeppy | Besides, it's in Toronto,so I know very well it's not you. :P |
| 19:33.37 | Ackis | toronto sucks! |
| 19:34.42 | Lopeppeppy | Come to Troy NY, the only place that both sucks and blows... |
| 19:34.49 | Ackis | I wished i was a hot female so I can be a camwhore and get free stuff for the hint of showing my boobs off :( |
| 19:34.57 | Lopeppeppy | ? |
| 19:35.13 | Ackis | sorry, playing around w/ wishlists |
| 19:38.01 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy: Isn't that a good thing? |
| 19:38.42 | Ackis | did robert jordan die? |
| 19:38.55 | Ackis | bah |
| 19:38.56 | Ackis | he did |
| 19:39.02 | Ackis | like 2 years ago |
| 19:39.04 | alestane | Ackis: Months ago. |
| 19:39.42 | Ackis | bastard needs to get resurected to finish off that lame book series wheel of time |
| 19:40.22 | alestane | Not if it's lame, he doesn't...and someone else is working on it anyway. |
| 19:40.35 | Lopeppeppy | He left outlines for the ghost writer. |
| 19:40.41 | Ackis | ah ok |
| 19:40.48 | zenzelezz | "someone else" means "this will suck" 90% of the time |
| 19:40.48 | Ackis | just the last couple of books were really slow |
| 19:41.01 | Ackis | at least with sword of truth he finished it up with a wicked story arc |
| 19:41.03 | Lopeppeppy | I want someone to go all Misery on George RR Martin. |
| 19:41.12 | Lopeppeppy | Sword of Truth actually got finished???!! |
| 19:41.21 | Lopeppeppy | I thought it was going to be the same book over and over until I died. |
| 19:41.28 | zenzelezz | the remaining 10% being "I'm broke so I'll milk what my (spouse/parent/mentor) started" |
| 19:41.32 | Lopeppeppy | What was the official series count at the end? |
| 19:41.45 | Ackis | not sure what the count was, it was less than wheel of time |
| 19:42.38 | alestane | Geaorge RR Martin I can deal with, although the last book left Anya in an awful place. |
| 19:42.38 | Ackis | 11 total |
| 19:42.38 | Ackis | alestane: aye that was the first book I looked for on amazon... they have an estimated release date of 2035 for it haha |
| 19:43.03 | alestane | Dance with Dragons, or whatever he's proposed to call it? |
| 19:43.25 | Ackis | yah |
| 19:43.26 | Lopeppeppy | Whatever he's calling it. |
| 19:43.31 | Lopeppeppy | He's too busy making a movie of the first one. |
| 19:43.41 | Ackis | sword of truth: 11 books, Wheel of Time: 11 out now, 14 planned |
| 19:43.48 | Ackis | http://www.amazon.ca/Dance-Dragons-George-R-R-Martin/dp/0739375970/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I36856CAS4DN2J&colid=3HNKDPPD6CD2X |
| 19:43.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (n=Geo@71-215-121-109.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 19:45.03 | Ackis | and david weber has a new one coming out in the honorverse |
| 19:48.24 | Ackis | apparently there's another book in the game of thrones series... the hedge knight (I knew #1 was a comic, #2 is out apparently) |
| 19:49.37 | Shirik | cog|work is scary stalker man |
| 19:50.47 | Lopeppeppy | Hedge Knight is a small spin off comic thing, IIRC. |
| 19:51.06 | Ackis | aye |
| 19:51.14 | Ackis | I didn't know there was a sequal to the first one though |
| 19:51.27 | Lopeppeppy | Me either. |
| 19:53.58 | Fisker | haha |
| 19:54.04 | Fisker | mimiron repaired as he died |
| 19:54.12 | Fisker | just managed to his hp go to full then he died |
| 19:54.13 | Fisker | or half |
| 19:55.17 | zenzelezz | better thank in Naxx40 when our tank would make Anub'Rekhan evade every time, restoring ~40% HP or however much it was |
| 19:55.26 | zenzelezz | -k |
| 19:55.43 | zenzelezz | I am seriously scared by my lack of skill at typing |
| 19:57.06 | Shirik | did Firefighter last night |
| 19:57.08 | Shirik | so much fun |
| 19:57.14 | Shirik | soooo much fun |
| 19:58.18 | foxlit | I'm confused by this avatar: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/member.php?u=161501 |
| 19:59.03 | Lopeppeppy | Looks like a spear-wielding bunny resting against this equipment. |
| 19:59.26 | Shirik | it's cute |
| 19:59.58 | foxlit | Lopeppeppy: no ears or eyes that I can discern? |
| 20:00.24 | zenzelezz | peppy's no elf, but she does have ears |
| 20:00.31 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, so his helmet is helping him sleep. |
| 20:00.49 | Lopeppeppy | I think the ears hang down on both sides. And he's pudgy. |
| 20:01.43 | foxlit | the brown things appear to be shoes :/ |
| 20:02.41 | Thunder_Child | or potatoes |
| 20:02.56 | foxlit | They're resting in a rather odd position, then. |
| 20:02.57 | Shirik | shoes and potatoes are two radically different things... |
| 20:03.15 | Lopeppeppy | Shoes. His feet are all relaxed. |
| 20:03.36 | Lopeppeppy | Sit down against a wall, with your legs straight out in front of you. Then let your ankles relax, and you look like Chubby Spear Bunny |
| 20:08.18 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (n=f@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 20:10.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:12.02 | *** join/#wowuidev NeoTron (n=neotron@pool-173-64-144-162.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:12.18 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (n=sven@p57A49ACD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:14.42 | *** part/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:16.51 | Thunder_Child | i like this shirt http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/im-all-for-being-social-but-this-is-fucking-bullshit/ |
| 20:17.15 | durcyn | http://contexts.org/socimages/2009/08/15/childs-shirt-with-nipple-tassles/ |
| 20:17.24 | durcyn | trumped. |
| 20:21.10 | foxlit | "The seniors walk in straight lines, and the only way of changing their direction is to give them promises of camphor candy." |
| 20:21.35 | Lopeppeppy | Or a smack with a baseball bat. |
| 20:25.44 | foxlit | "The goal of the Whac-a-Mole game is to... well... whack moles. With a hammer. To make the job easier you have first consulted the fortune teller and now you know the exact appearance patterns of the moles." |
| 20:26.06 | Lopeppeppy | That's a nice hack. |
| 20:26.36 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 20:26.44 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (i=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 20:27.47 | Shirik | interesting durcyn |
| 20:28.05 | foxlit | "The Army of Coin-tossing Monkeys (ACM) is in the business of producing randomness." |
| 20:28.34 | Ackis | http://www.massively.com/2009/09/15/massivelys-star-trek-online-beta-key-giveaway/ <-- in case anyone cares (chance to win only) |
| 20:28.38 | nicoli_s | durcyn: that shit is awesome, just brought some laughs to the whole office |
| 20:32.26 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:34.30 | Aelobin | trying to cycle through the guild roster on login, and GetNumGuildMembers() is returning 0 at ADDON_LOADED |
| 20:34.45 | Aelobin | which i kinda expected due to you "not being in a guild immediately after login" |
| 20:34.53 | Aelobin | any ideas how to get around it? |
| 20:35.13 | foxlit | (a) You have to request guilde roster data. |
| 20:35.42 | foxlit | (b) There should exist an event that would tell you that the client has received guild roster data. |
| 20:36.05 | Aelobin | aye GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE which i also tried using but it returned 0 whe i did |
| 20:36.16 | Aelobin | sec ill move some stuff around :P |
| 20:36.49 | Shirik | ... wtf? |
| 20:36.59 | Shirik | Microsoft has said they won't resolve a DoS issue on Windows XP? |
| 20:37.23 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 20:37.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Backporting code over a period of 12 years sucks |
| 20:37.49 | kdtresh | it's a shame they didn't do what apple did and ditch the backwards compatibility |
| 20:38.09 | Shirik | still |
| 20:38.10 | kdtresh | ms owns virtual pc, they could certainly include it in the new version(s) |
| 20:38.12 | Shirik | XP is fairly widely used |
| 20:38.15 | Shirik | I can understand 2k |
| 20:38.49 | Aelobin | foxlit: still wont work |
| 20:39.13 | Aelobin | i called GuildRoster() on ADDON_LOADED, and hook GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE but GetGuildNumMembers() returns 0 |
| 20:39.45 | Shirik | why do it at ADDON_LOADED? |
| 20:39.52 | Shirik | You're not going to receive GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE that quickly anyway |
| 20:39.54 | Shirik | do it at PEW |
| 20:40.09 | Aelobin | the GuildRoster() ? |
| 20:40.16 | Shirik | UpdateGuildRoster() yes |
| 20:40.53 | tem | !api GuildRoster |
| 20:40.53 | lua_bot | GuildRoster: Requests guild roster information from the server (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GuildRoster) |
| 20:41.01 | tem | !api UpdateGuildRoster |
| 20:41.15 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'UpdateGuildRoster'. |
| 20:41.15 | Shirik | sorry, GuildRoster() |
| 20:41.15 | Shirik | whatever |
| 20:41.16 | Shirik | you were right |
| 20:41.16 | tem | didn't think so |
| 20:41.16 | Shirik | wtb consistent naming |
| 20:41.41 | Aelobin | but still, would that affect my result? |
| 20:41.55 | Shirik | try it |
| 20:41.59 | Aelobin | calling it later shouldnt change the outcome on the G_R_U event should it? |
| 20:42.05 | Shirik | it could |
| 20:42.35 | Shirik | it all depends on how the server decides to figure out what guild you're in |
| 20:42.40 | Shirik | and how to obtain that data |
| 20:43.36 | Aelobin | dam still no luck :< |
| 20:44.35 | Shirik | show your code? |
| 20:45.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 20:45.08 | Aelobin | aye 2 secs |
| 20:47.01 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (n=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 20:47.19 | Aelobin | Shirik: http://www.pastey.net/125215 line 39 |
| 20:47.37 | Aelobin | just realised ive removed the GuildRoster() >_< |
| 20:47.40 | Aelobin | after i tested it |
| 20:47.44 | smcn | i has an internet of my own! |
| 20:50.08 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (n=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 20:51.11 | Ackis | I just posted in a forum thread that had my ex-gf, the dude she is/was dating, a former guild leader I called a cunt, another person I told them that I'd kill them IRL if I ever met them, and another person who I called a backstabbing <beep> |
| 20:51.46 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (n=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 20:52.24 | tem | what could that beeped word be that it warrented censoring when cunt didn't? |
| 20:52.26 | tem | boggles |
| 20:52.46 | Aelobin | i hated that game called Boggle |
| 20:52.49 | Cairenn | ... |
| 20:52.49 | Aelobin | it just wasnt fun |
| 20:53.24 | Cairenn | snarls at Ackis |
| 20:53.42 | Ackis | I didn't want to censor myself twice in one sentance at least I did it once |
| 20:54.10 | Cairenn | I would have censored the other one, if I were you |
| 20:54.39 | Ackis | sorry didn't mean to offend, I'll self-ban |
| 20:54.42 | *** part/#wowuidev Ackis (n=Ackis@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis) |
| 20:54.42 | smcn | man it feels good to not being using unsecured wifi for a change |
| 20:54.44 | Cairenn | ... |
| 20:55.36 | A-KO | smcn: I use a VPN for that reason :P |
| 20:55.41 | foxlit | "THE CAKE IS ALIVE!" |
| 20:55.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Ackis (n=Ackis@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis) |
| 20:55.42 | A-KO | when I get to public wifi points it's VPN time |
| 20:55.46 | alestane | mikma: My is your WoWI avatar Jon Arbuckle? |
| 20:55.55 | Shirik | Aelobin, you're really storing DKP values in officer notes? |
| 20:55.58 | mikma | alestane: yes |
| 20:56.05 | alestane | Why* |
| 20:56.13 | mikma | alestane: yes |
| 20:56.26 | alestane | Ah. |
| 20:56.35 | Aelobin | Shirik: no, im storing them in savedvars and then "uploading" them to officer notes for members to see |
| 20:56.44 | Aelobin | the main store is in savedvars |
| 20:56.55 | Shirik | anyway, I don't see where you're looking for the number of guild members |
| 20:57.00 | Shirik | 41? |
| 20:57.03 | Shirik | it's commented out |
| 20:57.06 | Aelobin | yup |
| 20:57.16 | Aelobin | commented out so i could check the other bits were working :P |
| 20:57.36 | Aelobin | but i was talking about the for loop where it cycles through the guild roster at abotu line 39 |
| 20:59.13 | Shirik | I don't see anything calling GuildRoster()? |
| 20:59.35 | Aelobin | i trid it in both the ADDON_LOADED and GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE events |
| 20:59.38 | Aelobin | to no avail |
| 21:00.13 | Shirik | how do you know GetNumGuildMembers() returns 0? |
| 21:00.27 | Aelobin | i printed it :P |
| 21:00.35 | Shirik | ok |
| 21:00.38 | Shirik | here's what you need to do |
| 21:00.46 | Shirik | you need to create a minimal test case |
| 21:00.48 | Shirik | and solve the problem |
| 21:00.48 | Aelobin | sorry if that doesnt show my accurate testing, i neatened it up again to send my GM a roughly working version |
| 21:01.08 | foxlit | Shirik: I've got a foolproof plan for solving any problem. |
| 21:01.19 | foxlit | 1. Identify problem. 2. ??? 3. Solve problem. |
| 21:01.19 | Shirik | poke it with a stick until it works? |
| 21:01.32 | Aelobin | hmm ill do a RegisterAllEvents and find out when GetNumGuildMembers returns > 0 |
| 21:08.58 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 21:08.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 21:17.08 | NightHawkTheSan1 | neat linuxMCE video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025602905109829# |
| 21:27.30 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (n=sven@p57A49ACD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:34.00 | roastx | 1. Collect Underpants 2. ???? 3. PROFIT! |
| 21:35.54 | Stew_a | does anybody know a good replacement for Satellite that is maintained |
| 21:36.58 | roastx | a giant antenna |
| 21:38.47 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSan1: interesting choice of actor. |
| 21:39.20 | Stew_a | -.- |
| 21:40.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 21:40.29 | Fisker | waah |
| 21:40.31 | Fisker | i lost 9 out of 10 arena matches : |
| 21:40.33 | Fisker | :( |
| 21:41.05 | Sesshu | poor Fisker |
| 21:41.38 | foxlit | Fiskerific :( |
| 21:42.33 | Fisker | i did my very best |
| 21:47.21 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@121.45.124.47) |
| 21:49.16 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 21:52.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:52.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Aquavett@74-137-176-182.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:59.52 | Shirik | Fisker, I am not surprised |
| 22:00.11 | nicoli_s | fisker, i sure hope yer a little better at sc2 |
| 22:00.16 | Shirik | nana |
| 22:00.20 | Shirik | I will destroy him at sc2 |
| 22:01.27 | tem | Shirik, like you lost to me at blizzcon? |
| 22:01.30 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@wireless-128-62-145-93.public.utexas.edu) |
| 22:01.33 | tem | you won't be destroying anyone like that |
| 22:01.33 | Shirik | ? I didn't lose |
| 22:01.40 | Shirik | I played peppy |
| 22:01.41 | tem | or was that AL? |
| 22:01.44 | Shirik | yeah |
| 22:01.48 | tem | I played against one of you guys at blizzcon |
| 22:01.56 | Shirik | you played AL |
| 22:02.58 | Stew_a | anybody? replacement library for satellite? |
| 22:04.09 | MentalPower|AFK | satellite does what exactly? |
| 22:04.11 | Fisker | haha i suck nicoli_s |
| 22:04.20 | MentalPower|AFK | I know its part of cosmos, but I don't remember its purpose |
| 22:04.42 | Fisker | Only contributions i'll make to the beta is give Blizzard a reason why they need a league underneath the practice league |
| 22:04.46 | NeoTron | Since there are cat people here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KswnjMa-MQ |
| 22:04.50 | KarlKFI|work | ? |
| 22:05.20 | MentalPower|AFK | KarlKFI|work: Stew_a is looking for a satellite replacement |
| 22:05.26 | KarlKFI|work | no Stew_a: much of the advanced functionality of Satellite is no longer possible due to tainting |
| 22:05.51 | KarlKFI|work | and the simple stuff like chat command registration is availible in other packages |
| 22:05.53 | Stew_a | oh :-( |
| 22:06.11 | foxlit | Out of interest, what advanced functionality? |
| 22:06.13 | KarlKFI|work | but it's no longer possible to create fake channels |
| 22:06.23 | foxlit | ^ that was the answer I was looking for. |
| 22:06.46 | foxlit | But it seems odd. |
| 22:07.01 | KarlKFI|work | foxlit: http://www.wowwiki.com/Satellite |
| 22:07.12 | foxlit | KarlKFI|work: I presume that page does not explain why it's broken. |
| 22:07.22 | KarlKFI|work | nope |
| 22:07.24 | KarlKFI|work | taint |
| 22:07.47 | KarlKFI|work | also the chat was restructured so the code would need updating even if it were possible |
| 22:08.21 | KarlKFI|work | btu afaik Satellite was the only mod to ever allow some of that functionality, and it's no longer possible |
| 22:08.30 | foxlit | I have reservations about declaring that things are impossible. |
| 22:08.31 | KarlKFI|work | it used liek 20 hooks |
| 22:08.51 | KarlKFI|work | i tried replacing them but could onyl replace abotu half of them successfully |
| 22:09.20 | KarlKFI|work | of course this was a long time ago... btu i dont think the situation has changed much |
| 22:09.34 | foxlit | I mean, you could just go ahead and fake EVERYTHING involved. |
| 22:09.38 | KarlKFI|work | same problem Archeaologist had |
| 22:09.55 | KarlKFI|work | you'd have to fake the chat frames themselves foxlit |
| 22:10.02 | foxlit | What, :AddMessage is secure? |
| 22:10.06 | KarlKFI|work | which of course would break secure execution |
| 22:10.38 | Stew_a | so no more custom chat-types then :-( |
| 22:10.55 | KarlKFI|work | defaultColor and defaultFrames are probably still possible |
| 22:11.10 | KarlKFI|work | and you could prolly still add thigns to /help |
| 22:11.31 | KarlKFI|work | the onX is probably still possible |
| 22:11.32 | foxlit | (I'm looking at this from more of an output-routing angle than an input-handling one) |
| 22:11.47 | KarlKFI|work | sticky is still possible |
| 22:11.58 | KarlKFI|work | hideMenuOption is not |
| 22:12.14 | KarlKFI|work | printHeader i don't think so |
| 22:12.40 | KarlKFI|work | and you can't create custom chat types any more |
| 22:12.56 | KarlKFI|work | because that would taint the blizzard code that handles slash commands afaik |
| 22:14.29 | Stew_a | well i'm using the register slash command part of the code, and it does look like a custom chat type, and haven't had any taint problems |
| 22:14.40 | KarlKFI|work | i coudl create an addon to do all the stuff that still worked but no one would use it, because people hate libraries unless it actually adds functionality |
| 22:15.00 | Fisker | what sick man sends Shirik to fight |
| 22:15.34 | KarlKFI|work | pastey your registration Stew_a |
| 22:17.21 | KarlKFI|work | also: i hate slash commands |
| 22:17.26 | KarlKFI|work | ;) |
| 22:17.31 | foxlit | KarlKFI|work: looking at ChatFrame.lua, the ChatType stuff seems fully exposed. |
| 22:17.54 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 22:18.00 | KarlKFI|work | exposed meaning what, it's easier to taint? |
| 22:18.28 | foxlit | That too. |
| 22:18.31 | KarlKFI|work | i dunno they may have fixed it by wrappign it int hose secure execution blocks but i doubt it |
| 22:18.38 | Stew_a | http://pastey.net/125228 |
| 22:18.45 | airtonix | ncsoft: because telling you the truth will reduce our stock price. |
| 22:18.47 | foxlit | But comments like "-- Handle chat types. No need for a securecall here, since we should be done with anything secure." make me think that they've moved it somewhere tainting it wouldn't bother the default UI. |
| 22:18.53 | Stew_a | but it throws lua errors nowadays when trying to dispatch events on a custom chat type |
| 22:19.15 | foxlit | The trick seems to be that they run secure stuff, if any matches, first. |
| 22:19.23 | foxlit | And only then do the (potentially insecure) dispatch. |
| 22:19.38 | KarlKFI|work | well i coudl give it another look maybe today |
| 22:19.56 | KarlKFI|work | but can't garentee anything |
| 22:20.25 | Stew_a | i mean you could just :AddMessage it into the chat frame, but its really nowhere near as good as a fully fledge custom chat-type from a user experience perspective |
| 22:20.58 | KarlKFI|work | right |
| 22:21.23 | KarlKFI|work | yeah well that "Other Messages" Menu doesn't even exist anymore |
| 22:21.34 | KarlKFI|work | i'd have to figure out some hack to make the colors work again |
| 22:21.45 | KarlKFI|work | and vissibility |
| 22:22.03 | Stew_a | it doesn't exist as a menu, but it got moved into the 'other' chunk of the chat-config |
| 22:22.10 | KarlKFI|work | right |
| 22:22.56 | KarlKFI|work | hooks dont really like it whent he thing they're hooking gets removed or renamed ;) |
| 22:23.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-236-005.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:23.20 | KarlKFI|work | and getting made into a different ui means a rewrite |
| 22:23.35 | KarlKFI|work | last updated 01-04-2007 |
| 22:23.37 | KarlKFI|work | it's been a while |
| 22:23.52 | Stew_a | indeed, which was why i was asking if there was anything else providing similar functionality, but i guess not |
| 22:23.59 | KarlKFI|work | not afaik |
| 22:24.32 | KarlKFI|work | i'm the only one crazy enough to try to write libraries that depend on hooking apparently |
| 22:25.15 | KarlKFI|work | maybe jnwhiteh is ;) |
| 22:25.23 | KarlKFI|work | btu he's a busy man these days |
| 22:34.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Pytlask (i=c64a263b@gateway/web/freenode/x-bjmqzzgohzicrwyx) |
| 22:34.30 | jnwhiteh | KarlKFI|work: I haven't hooked in a while :P |
| 22:34.33 | Amarande | hmm |
| 22:34.44 | Amarande | what's the configgle to activate the taint log? |
| 22:34.47 | KarlKFI|work | so it's just me then |
| 22:35.15 | KarlKFI|work | it's ok i haven't really done it ina 'long while' either |
| 22:35.16 | Amarande | needs to figure out how the inventory window keeps getting tainted :| |
| 22:36.14 | Stew_a | btw is it just me or did blizz borrow iriel's devtools for 3.2? |
| 22:37.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes, they did |
| 22:38.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-236-005.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:38.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 22:39.13 | Stew_a | fair enough |
| 22:39.34 | Stew_a | is it going to be just a one-off or the start of something bigger? |
| 22:41.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-236-005.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:43.07 | Kraps | "off the record" fail http://www.politico.com/click/stories/0909/did_obama_call_kanye_a_jackass.html |
| 22:44.02 | smcn | obama doesn't care about black people! |
| 22:45.37 | airtonix | haha |
| 22:46.26 | Kraps | the white house has no comment OOPS THEY DID |
| 22:51.59 | nicoli_s | whats wrong about that? kanye is a total jackass |
| 22:54.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 22:55.09 | Stew_a | perhaps headline should read "World first - politician tells the truth" :P |
| 22:55.15 | Arrowmaster | Kraps: die |
| 22:55.36 | Kraps | Arrowmaster: you clicked the link asshole |
| 22:55.55 | Arrowmaster | you linked the shitty site that crashed my browser |
| 22:57.19 | Kraps | see my 6:55 |
| 22:58.06 | Arrowmaster | you make it sound like you knew it would crash browsers |
| 22:59.06 | Kraps | what |
| 23:06.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Recluse (n=me@71.145.160.46) |
| 23:12.15 | Thunder_Child | actuallt Arrowmaster, it's your fault for not protecting yourself from sites |
| 23:12.58 | Arrowmaster | i use noscript, i have no fucking idea how that site managed to crash firefox without javascript or flash |
| 23:14.07 | Thunder_Child | i have noscript as well and i didnt have a problem |
| 23:15.26 | Arrowmaster | opened a different firefox process and loaded the page and its fine |
| 23:15.59 | Arrowmaster | but when i loaded it in my main process it crashed, and then when i restored the session it crashed again so i had to restore the session and close the tab before it loaded |
| 23:16.42 | Thunder_Child | two conflicting tabs maybe |
| 23:17.56 | A-KO | bug in FF :P |
| 23:18.01 | A-KO | I've been using, gasp, at work, IE8 |
| 23:18.02 | A-KO | by choice |
| 23:18.11 | A-KO | use chrome on my desktop |
| 23:18.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabie1 (n=Mr_Rabie@pool-98-110-148-206.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:19.07 | mikma | esamynn|away: http://www.twitvid.com/49DD3 |
| 23:22.26 | Kraps | http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/3511/page/1 |
| 23:24.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Drool (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:37.12 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GHnEh_APs |
| 23:39.43 | mikma | nevcairiel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw_zdwNZ1aE |
| 23:42.14 | Kraps | whats number 8? |
| 23:42.56 | Kraps | oh gule |
| 23:42.56 | Kraps | glue |
| 23:42.56 | mikma | glue |
| 23:43.09 | mikma | nr.7 was funny |
| 23:45.53 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYEqePMQcdA man, that's funny :D |
| 23:45.59 | mikma | 10 point landing |
| 23:49.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 23:49.11 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 23:50.38 | Adys | Google Chrome 3.0 is out |
| 23:50.58 | mikma | haha, good one. |
| 23:51.59 | Adys | ? |
