| 00:03.25 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:21.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 00:21.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 00:30.14 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 00:32.14 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Shirik-dear. How goes things? |
| 00:32.19 | Shirik | very tired |
| 00:32.53 | Lopeppeppy | I hear you there. |
| 00:33.02 | Lopeppeppy | fluffs up some pillows for a good night's sleep |
| 00:33.34 | Shirik | ^_^ |
| 00:33.46 | Thunder_Child | you cant sleep Shirik, you need to make money for an upgraded camera |
| 00:34.17 | Shirik | .. |
| 00:34.17 | Lopeppeppy | TC, if he doesn't sleep he won't be alive to use a camera. |
| 00:34.45 | Thunder_Child | actually he would be alive, simply insane |
| 00:35.02 | Lopeppeppy | no, he would eventually die of it. |
| 00:35.38 | Shirik | I love how much confidence you guys have in me |
| 00:36.09 | Lopeppeppy | I am trying to put you to bed, it's TC who wants you to stay up! |
| 00:36.27 | Shirik | you're trying to put me to bed by saying I'm going to die |
| 00:36.43 | Lopeppeppy | Hmm. |
| 00:36.54 | Lopeppeppy | fluffs more pillows |
| 00:37.18 | Thunder_Child | no person is known to have died from sleep deprivation |
| 00:37.29 | Shirik | how about that guy who played WoW |
| 00:37.44 | Thunder_Child | heart attack irrc |
| 00:37.48 | Thunder_Child | iirc* |
| 00:38.18 | Lopeppeppy | Everyone dies because their heart stops going. Contributing factors, however, must be acknowledged. |
| 00:38.45 | Shirik | "We presume the cause of death was heart failure stemming from exhaustion," a Taegu provincial police official told the Reuters news agency. |
| 00:39.04 | foxlit | <insert contrived example of someone with a beating heart being dead for all practical purposes> |
| 00:39.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 00:40.09 | Lopeppeppy | Bah, humbug. Someone make me some cookies |
| 00:40.26 | Shirik | bakes Lopeppeppy tons of cookies |
| 00:40.31 | Shirik | I will happily stay awake for youo |
| 00:40.53 | Thunder_Child | i only make cookies with no chocolate |
| 00:43.08 | Lopeppeppy | Awww, I'll eat Shirik's cookies then, I think he would make them chocolate chip sometimes. |
| 00:43.27 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 00:43.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 00:43.31 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy wants me to die |
| 00:44.01 | Lopeppeppy | What? You are the Cookie God, I worship you. |
| 00:44.25 | Shirik | but you said if I don't sleep I'll die |
| 00:44.29 | Shirik | and then you told me to make cookies |
| 00:44.40 | Shirik | unless you want me to use an oven while asleep |
| 00:44.44 | Shirik | which is probably also quite dangerous |
| 00:44.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 00:46.51 | Lopeppeppy | I can't win! Go to bed, sleep well, dream of happy programs that work exactly like they should, all the time! :P |
| 00:47.34 | Jerub | creepy pants all the time |
| 00:47.38 | Yssaril | isn't it exaclty those dreams that cause nightmares because you know it can't possibly be true so everything realigns and goes to hell? |
| 00:47.51 | Lopeppeppy | You people aren't helping.... *tap tap tap* |
| 00:48.20 | mikma | gah |
| 00:48.33 | mikma | 172 days until chuck s3. poop. |
| 00:48.42 | Lopeppeppy | Awww. |
| 00:51.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (n=Sixen@173-25-22-158.client.mchsi.com) |
| 01:00.19 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, sleep then slave over cookies. |
| 01:11.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Arcalyth (n=arcalyth@c-24-11-8-47.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 01:15.39 | batrick | Shirik: keep me posted on the sploit |
| 01:16.59 | batrick | Someone recommend me a good digital camera under 200$ |
| 01:17.02 | batrick | pls =) |
| 01:18.58 | Gnarfoz | oxymoron :o |
| 01:20.17 | *** join/#wowuidev devZero (n=devZero@209-20-86-91.slicehost.net) |
| 01:20.36 | wsoul | ttp://www.cc.puv.fi/~e0401396/ss.jpeg |
| 01:21.02 | batrick | Gnarfoz: oxymoron? |
| 01:21.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 01:21.29 | batrick | I'm guessing you are saying that there exists no digital camera that is good quality under 200$ |
| 01:21.34 | batrick | that's a paradox :P (if true) |
| 01:21.43 | batrick | but I just want the best for under 200$ :P |
| 01:25.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Angelike (n=Angelike@dslb-088-073-229-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:26.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Jiminizer (n=jiminize@jiminizer.plus.com) |
| 01:27.36 | Lopeppeppy | I'm happy with my Canon PowerShot SX100 IS. It's not a dinky one, not an awesome one, but good for family/friend type usage. |
| 01:31.10 | Thunder_Child | batrick, do you know what type of things you want your camera to do? |
| 01:32.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-89-17.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 01:37.45 | Thunder_Child | batrick, you really need to know what sort of things you want your camera to do as well as in what situations. for DSLR's you can get lenses for different situations, however with a budget of 200$ you will be looking at a compact |
| 01:38.10 | Thunder_Child | and compacts are more targeted to certian things |
| 01:43.30 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 01:45.08 | batrick | I just need a decent camera to take pictures with, where the resolution of said pictures won't suck. |
| 01:45.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:45.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 01:48.23 | Thunder_Child | wow, that helps loads.... |
| 01:50.04 | Gnarfoz | if that's what you're going for, you don't even have to spend $100, probably ;D |
| 01:50.10 | Gnarfoz | the pictures will still be shitty though |
| 01:55.27 | batrick | I really don't know what you are trying to get out of me... |
| 01:56.17 | batrick | I just want a camera that will take excellent pictures at high resolution with a price cap of 200 dollars. |
| 01:56.33 | Gnarfoz | get the one with the biggest possible optics and sensor size. resolution does not matter |
| 01:57.35 | Iriel | You might want to define "high resolution" |
| 02:03.44 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLon (i=nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
| 02:17.49 | *** join/#wowuidev art3mis (n=art3mis@WoWUIDev/WoWI/HKUI/art3mis) |
| 02:17.58 | art3mis | any of you guys play sports pools? |
| 02:18.33 | art3mis | figured I'd link this www.lightspeedpool.com |
| 02:18.44 | art3mis | its got weekly prizes its free and meh it's something to do |
| 02:29.34 | WobWork | woo, it rates a 'meh' =) |
| 02:31.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@ip-95-222-224-247.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 02:36.21 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@adsl-75-15-199-228.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:42.41 | Thunder_Child | batrick, what is high res to you? clear pictures in a standard photograph size or perfect pictures at 1080p res? |
| 02:43.06 | batrick | uh, 1080p would be nice sure |
| 02:43.12 | batrick | but I realize my price cap is 200$ |
| 02:43.28 | batrick | I don't need fancy features like video |
| 02:43.38 | batrick | although most cameras come with that by default as I understand |
| 02:43.39 | batrick | it |
| 02:44.12 | Thunder_Child | well you will want some sort of stablization since that makes for better pictures |
| 02:44.22 | batrick | right |
| 02:44.58 | batrick | I would most value the ability to take excellent pictures despite my own ineptitude |
| 02:44.58 | Thunder_Child | is the 200$ fudgeable? or is it an absolute? |
| 02:45.04 | batrick | fudgeable |
| 02:45.10 | Thunder_Child | so face recognition as well? |
| 02:45.19 | batrick | If I ask for camera help without a cap I'll get referred to 1500$ cameras :) |
| 02:45.25 | batrick | at least in this channel :P |
| 02:45.36 | Thunder_Child | true |
| 02:45.45 | batrick | dunno why face recognition is important? for auto focus? |
| 02:45.58 | Thunder_Child | though if you had said compact it would have been in the 400 or so range |
| 02:46.03 | kdtresh | you looking for video or still camera? |
| 02:46.08 | Thunder_Child | still |
| 02:46.12 | batrick | still camera |
| 02:46.15 | Thunder_Child | yes, for auto foucs |
| 02:46.32 | kdtresh | i recommend canon powershots |
| 02:46.32 | batrick | Thunder_Child: sure that would be nice then |
| 02:46.47 | kdtresh | my wife has an a620 and loves it |
| 02:46.55 | kdtresh | it replaced an a80 that she also loved |
| 02:47.17 | kdtresh | takes excellent video too, though not 1080 |
| 02:47.25 | kdtresh | 7.1mp |
| 02:47.32 | Jerub | I hvae a A520 i think. |
| 02:47.43 | Jerub | 4 double a batteries. |
| 02:48.18 | kdtresh | yes, uses AA batteries |
| 02:48.22 | kdtresh | which adds to the weight a bit |
| 02:48.27 | kdtresh | but you can buy AA batteries anywhere |
| 02:48.37 | kdtresh | and it gets a decent amount on a single set of batteries |
| 02:49.03 | kdtresh | the 620 has a swivel screen, so you can flip the screen out for self-pics and different angles |
| 02:49.21 | kdtresh | as well as flip it so the lcd is inward so it doesn't get dinged |
| 02:49.36 | kdtresh | it also takes good low-light video |
| 02:49.39 | Jerub | yep, i think the only real difference is the megapixels between the 620 and 520 ;) |
| 02:49.45 | Jerub | good camera. |
| 02:49.46 | kdtresh | we got some good clips of the electrical parade at disneyland |
| 02:50.20 | Thunder_Child | batrick, is weight or size an issue (or a preference) |
| 02:50.32 | batrick | not really an issue |
| 02:50.36 | Yssaril | what do you guys think http://i27.tinypic.com/210hr43.jpg (am still working on the itemsorting right now its based on drop rate) |
| 02:51.01 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.2.x ToC: 30200 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | "Wasted time by wearing a starfish on my head. Starfish very very annoyed. Put starfish back. Starfish seemed happier." - Tierre |
| 02:51.40 | Thunder_Child | what he doesnt say is where he put the starfish back..... |
| 02:51.43 | AnduinLothar | what, no pie chart? |
| 02:52.14 | batrick | Thunder_Child: what do you think of this one: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Powershot-SD990IS-Stabilized-Black/dp/B001G5ZTWM/ref=pd_cp_e_2 |
| 02:52.17 | kdtresh | hmmm, it looks like they pulled the swivel lcd, that stinks |
| 02:53.45 | batrick | Jerub: What does the 620 offer over the one I linked above? It looks like the one I linked is superior, especially in MP. |
| 02:53.54 | kdtresh | http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=144&modelid=17480 |
| 02:53.55 | batrick | despite 620 costing almost twice as much |
| 02:53.59 | kdtresh | 10x optical zoom |
| 02:55.04 | Jerub | man, i don't know, i bought a camera on a whim 3 years ago. |
| 02:55.07 | kdtresh | we bought our a620 new for $225 4 years ago, $549 is obscene |
| 02:55.13 | kdtresh | you can get a d-reb for that much |
| 02:55.29 | kdtresh | a620 has been discontinued for a while, that must be why it's expensive |
| 02:55.31 | Jerub | 3-4 years. |
| 02:56.21 | kdtresh | it's kinda surprising how handy that flipscreen is, though |
| 02:56.30 | kdtresh | sad that they don't include it on any current models |
| 02:57.22 | kdtresh | 630 has it, but it looks like it has also been discontinued |
| 02:57.35 | Thunder_Child | batrick, regardless of what you get, use http://www.dpreview.com/ |
| 02:57.57 | batrick | ok ty |
| 02:59.17 | kdtresh | in my experience, nikons tend to be a little red-heavy, but otherwise good |
| 02:59.38 | kdtresh | haven't had any complaints with any of the canons we've had |
| 03:00.00 | kdtresh | cybershot, powershot, digital rebel |
| 03:00.39 | kdtresh | got my dad a g9 still camera, takes better videos than his camcorder, lol |
| 03:01.09 | kdtresh | and the lcd looks big enough to watch tv on |
| 03:03.46 | bleeter | kd3: it' still all black to me :( |
| 03:03.57 | Aquavette2k1 | pff anyone around that deals with servers a lot? |
| 03:04.04 | bleeter | kd3: gah, I didn't moan at guillotine when he was here asking about bugs =) he'd love that one ;) |
| 03:04.26 | kd3 | lol |
| 03:04.29 | kd3 | and yah, mine is too |
| 03:07.06 | Aqua | You guys want to here some BS, so my work place bought this motherboard, dual LGA 771 Xenon... It doesn't fit in our server case. We start looking for a new server case, Intel recommends three, plus their models. I go to the manufacturers site, look at the three Intel recommends, and the manufacturer doesn't list the board as being comp with the case. |
| 03:07.11 | bleeter | though I did get off the realm change bug at him... personally I'd rather see that fixed than the black OGL 'coz I get realm change bug in native OSes, too |
| 03:07.56 | bleeter | Aqua: standard BS, nothing special there |
| 03:08.10 | Aqua | So who do i go buy then? |
| 03:08.23 | Aqua | *by... |
| 03:09.06 | Aqua | Intel who says they tested the board int he case, or the case builder who says it won't fit |
| 03:10.18 | Aqua | Its confusing the hell out of me at this point |
| 03:10.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@85.233.16.92) |
| 03:13.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@ip-95-222-224-247.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 03:22.18 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@ip68-231-217-61.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 03:22.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 03:25.31 | batrick | It's generally true that a HDD with lower capacity gets higher bytes/$ right? |
| 03:26.30 | batrick | I'm looking at these two WD drives on newegg, the 1 TB drive gets 10.5 GB/1$ and the 640GB drive gets 8.5GB/1$. |
| 03:26.46 | batrick | Drives are the same except for capacity... |
| 03:26.48 | Jerub | it's a curve. |
| 03:27.04 | Jerub | and the peak bytes/meg is in the middle. |
| 03:27.20 | Jerub | and clearly there are anomalies. |
| 03:27.37 | batrick | well naturally |
| 03:28.55 | Jerub | i've stopped buying harddrives, and am content to steal drives out of dead machines for all my storage. |
| 03:29.38 | batrick | i'm preparing to build a huge ZFS array |
| 03:29.42 | A-KO | lol |
| 03:29.42 | A-KO | zfs |
| 03:29.44 | batrick | so, "I'm in the market" |
| 03:29.47 | A-KO | uhm |
| 03:29.56 | batrick | A-KO: ? |
| 03:30.12 | A-KO | until they open that shit up it's not worth it IMO :P |
| 03:30.19 | batrick | open what shit up |
| 03:30.28 | batrick | the source code is open? |
| 03:31.10 | A-KO | you running a sun box? |
| 03:31.46 | batrick | how is that relevant to your finding my making a ZFS array humorous? |
| 03:32.07 | A-KO | because zfs is going to die away unless they change its license? |
| 03:32.17 | batrick | uh, that's a load of crap |
| 03:32.32 | A-KO | unless you're running Sun's hardware, it's not :P |
| 03:32.37 | batrick | ZFS is used in plenty of places, just because it can't be included in linux doesn't mean it will die |
| 03:32.44 | A-KO | OSX and Sun |
| 03:32.47 | A-KO | and OSX is losing support for it |
| 03:32.48 | A-KO | so |
| 03:32.49 | A-KO | Sun |
| 03:32.52 | A-KO | :P |
| 03:32.59 | batrick | or you can uh, port it |
| 03:33.00 | Aqua | Intel.... |
| 03:33.07 | A-KO | intel's backing btrfs |
| 03:33.10 | batrick | plus there's nothing wrong with running a Sun fileserver |
| 03:33.24 | batrick | and you don't need Sun's hardware |
| 03:33.30 | batrick | your arguments are shit |
| 03:33.35 | WobWork | go with the case builder |
| 03:33.55 | WobWork | Aqua: ^ |
| 03:34.14 | Jerub | mmm btrfs. |
| 03:34.17 | WobWork | Cause if they say it won't fit, they've clearly tried =P |
| 03:35.19 | Jerub | we use ZFS at work. |
| 03:35.28 | Jerub | raid Z is awesome. |
| 03:35.37 | A-KO | zfs is cool, but it's just not going to get adoption |
| 03:35.43 | A-KO | unless Sun seriously changes their shit |
| 03:35.52 | Jerub | who cares? it's a network filesystem. |
| 03:36.13 | Jerub | we just serve it from an opensolaris box, and all the machines that access it are linux or windows or mac. :D |
| 03:36.19 | A-KO | we're using netapp sans |
| 03:39.58 | batrick | Anyway, I'm going to be using virtual box to run open solaris in the background managing my ZFS array. I'll setup some local network access to the disks. |
| 03:40.23 | *** join/#wowuidev cyndis (i=cyndis@82-128-203-74-Korvensuora-TR1.suomi.net) |
| 03:42.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 03:52.05 | cog|away | mmm ... cheese & salami sandwich... 2 pieces of cheese sandwiched by three layers of salami. |
| 03:53.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps_ (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:53.50 | Kraps_ | what the hell |
| 03:53.53 | WobWork | would you like some bread with your sandwich? |
| 03:54.57 | cog|away | too filling :> |
| 03:55.35 | cog|away | now, if only it were batter fried... |
| 03:56.02 | cog|away | in bacon grease |
| 03:56.31 | Kraps_ | you log on to do stuff, no one needs dps, the cos guy kicked me for a friend, and i cant do dailies cuz of this teabagging hunter |
| 03:57.03 | Kraps_ | QQQQQQQ |
| 03:57.47 | WobWork | cog|away: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/32665106/ns/today-today_food_and_wine/ |
| 03:57.56 | Jerub | my wife has a tank specced paladin that just got to 80, so really can't do heroics until she gears up |
| 03:57.59 | Jerub | but needs heroics to gear up. |
| 03:58.12 | WobWork | It's a vicious circle |
| 03:58.28 | WobWork | but you can gear up for heroics on non heroics |
| 03:58.41 | Kraps_ | Jerub: that happened to me at 70 |
| 03:58.58 | cog|away | WobWork: http://www.bbqaddicts.com/blog/recipes/bacon-explosion/ |
| 03:59.28 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah|away (n=Ryan@c-76-107-188-150.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 03:59.30 | WobWork | old =P |
| 03:59.38 | cog|away | ya well :P |
| 03:59.45 | Jerub | i think i'm just going to have to drood heal her through heroics and hope we pug some high dps. |
| 04:01.14 | WobWork | do CoS |
| 04:01.16 | WobWork | for the shield |
| 04:01.23 | WobWork | it'll be easy for her cause it's all undead |
| 04:02.45 | Jerub | we did the speed run with 8 minutes to spare the other day. |
| 04:02.49 | Jerub | :( then i lost the roll on the reins. |
| 04:04.28 | Kraps_ | buff rolls |
| 04:08.47 | Kraps_ | lol at soloing as fury in batt stance, 2.5 sec kills |
| 04:19.56 | WobWork | Ok, so I have an image with an arbitary size |
| 04:20.15 | WobWork | say, W and H as width and height |
| 04:20.34 | WobWork | Now I have a defined max height and width to -store- an image |
| 04:21.18 | WobWork | so how can I find what height and width to scale the original image to fit in whichever of the larger of the max height or max width |
| 04:22.11 | Iriel | calculate the ratio of desired to actual height, width |
| 04:22.27 | Iriel | then pick the larger or smaller of them depending on whether your desire is a minimum or maximum |
| 04:25.06 | WobWork | Iriel: something akin to http://wowuidev.pastey.net/124884 ? |
| 04:25.28 | Iriel | Well, i'd probably do... |
| 04:25.51 | Iriel | hRatio = image.Height / MaxImageHeight |
| 04:26.05 | Iriel | wRatio = image.Width / MaxImageWidth |
| 04:26.08 | Iriel | if (hRatio > 1 or wRatio > 1) then |
| 04:26.20 | Iriel | local ratio = math.max(hRatio, wRatio) |
| 04:26.35 | Iriel | -- Scale both axes by dividing by ratio |
| 04:26.36 | Iriel | end |
| 04:26.43 | WobWork | awesome |
| 04:26.46 | WobWork | thank you |
| 04:28.48 | Kraps_ | so i just jousted with 4 champions and i got no marks, hmm i wonder why....... OH I HAVE NO BAG SPACE |
| 04:28.57 | WobWork | it's in the mail |
| 04:29.02 | WobWork | right now =) |
| 04:29.10 | Kraps_ | !!! |
| 04:29.12 | WobWork | so you can potentially save for tomorrow's hand in too |
| 04:29.19 | WobWork | but they only last for 24 hours |
| 04:29.54 | WobWork | Just as a note, if you do the lumberjack daily, you can work ahead on that one too |
| 04:30.10 | WobWork | I had it so I could just pick up the daily and hand it straight in |
| 04:30.15 | WobWork | for about a week |
| 04:31.43 | Kraps_ | the "bested <city>" debuff is shorter too |
| 04:32.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@69.57.184.216) |
| 04:33.14 | Kraps_ | but i still cant fight the cities i won? |
| 04:33.35 | Kraps_ | nvm |
| 04:33.57 | Kraps_ | i thought you could joust w/o the quest :( |
| 04:39.42 | Yssaril | WobWork: that one is no more since they finished building |
| 04:40.04 | Kraps_ | i did not know you could select the kraken and chain fire the harpoon |
| 04:44.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 04:51.06 | kd3 | yar |
| 05:10.49 | Kraps_ | Customer: âCatalina Island is an ISLAND?!â |
| 05:12.36 | WobWork | Yssaril: oh yeah |
| 05:12.45 | WobWork | Yssaril: I forgot since I don't do the new dailies |
| 05:12.58 | WobWork | I've been grinding the original quests for rep |
| 05:13.31 | Jerub | I want to get the loremaster achievements. |
| 05:13.44 | Jerub | but maybe i'll wait until i can fly in eastern kingdoms. |
| 05:14.02 | *** join/#wowuidev VonhintenHOME` (n=Kiss@c-98-192-131-177.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 05:14.32 | WobWork | Jerub: well, cataclysm bucket list =) |
| 05:14.52 | WobWork | when you can fly in Eastern Kingdoms, all the old quests will be gone =) |
| 05:15.56 | Jerub | imagine how easy it will be to get the quests for WC! |
| 05:15.57 | Jerub | :D |
| 05:15.59 | Jerub | ;) |
| 05:16.24 | kd3 | doing old-world quests now: good idea. they'll probably be gone come cataclysm |
| 05:16.44 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@99-57-35-45.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:31.26 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 05:32.00 | Shirik | Are we currently on 3.2.0 or 3.2.1? |
| 05:34.05 | Cairenn | .0 |
| 05:37.43 | Dagmar | Hm... I guess technically Fileplanet started giving non-members keys on the 8th |
| 05:37.58 | Dagmar | I thought we were on 3.2.1 |
| 05:38.01 | kd3 | there is no 3.2.1 |
| 05:38.11 | Jerub | it's going straight from 3.2.0 to 3.2.2 afaik. |
| 05:38.18 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Patches |
| 05:38.35 | Dagmar | Okay. I just figured it incremented up from .0 when they did that quickie patch that also kicked my addons into the dirt again |
| 05:39.15 | Dagmar | Jerub: <excited>3.2.2 is where I finally get some more drums!</excited> |
| 05:39.36 | Yssaril | Dagmar: how did they screw up your addons? |
| 05:39.42 | Dagmar | Kinda a bummer that they're long-term buffs instead of quickies for burst DPS, but I'll take 'em |
| 05:40.46 | Dagmar | Yssaril: Whenever there's a revision they're either flipping something in the client or incremementing the version it checks for, so I generally assume that it's been incremeneted when I see "Out Of Date" sprawled all down the right hand side of the addons screen |
| 05:40.53 | Jerub | Dagmar: drums? |
| 05:40.58 | Dagmar | _That_ would be what I mean by tha |
| 05:40.59 | Dagmar | t |
| 05:41.08 | Yssaril | ahhh |
| 05:41.14 | Dagmar | Jerub: Yeah finally leatherworkers are getting some bloody non-Ulduar pattersn |
| 05:41.15 | Jerub | that quickie patch is awesome because it unscrews rendering on macs. |
| 05:41.21 | Jerub | Dagmar: oh sweet. |
| 05:41.37 | Dagmar | Two buff drums, one for 30 minutes and one for an hour |
| 05:41.42 | Jerub | sweet. |
| 05:41.50 | Jerub | i always forget to hit drums and trinkets and stuff. |
| 05:41.51 | Dagmar | I've been watching the other professions get new stuff with envy |
| 05:42.15 | Dagmar | ...and since the Ulduar recipes would be a waste of time for me to consider, I've kinda played with all the toys in that box already. |
| 05:42.32 | Dagmar | I *always* had drums handy when we could use them |
| 05:42.38 | Jerub | there are ToC recipes too |
| 05:42.50 | Dagmar | The guild leader would call for burst and I could mash a whole slew of buttons |
| 05:42.53 | Dagmar | REALLY? |
| 05:42.54 | Jerub | not that i have any of eather. |
| 05:43.04 | Dagmar | Surely not in Trial of the Champion |
| 05:43.06 | Jerub | atlasloot tells me so. |
| 05:43.09 | Jerub | no, crusader |
| 05:43.15 | Jerub | the 10/25 man ones |
| 05:43.18 | Dagmar | Oh okay |
| 05:43.32 | Dagmar | Same problem there. The guild's too small to do much of that on a regular basis |
| 05:43.52 | Dagmar | The moment you have to get SIX of something that also only drops in there, it all goes out the window |
| 05:45.12 | Jerub | the crusader orbs? |
| 05:45.16 | Jerub | yeah, that's a joke. |
| 05:45.53 | Dagmar | It pretty much puts those recipes and the gear they make exclusively into the hands of raiding guilds |
| 05:45.57 | Jerub | but i've got 4 stacks of every type of leather. |
| 05:46.07 | Dagmar | I've got a bit more than that |
| 05:46.24 | Dagmar | I stopped hoarding heavy borean leather when I got 1,000 of them |
| 05:46.36 | Jerub | i see.... |
| 05:46.44 | Jerub | looks at his 80... |
| 05:46.53 | Jerub | considers how many 1000 would be... |
| 05:46.57 | Dagmar | Animals in Northrend should be genetically predisposed to flee at the sight of dwarves by now |
| 05:47.15 | Jerub | i've only been skinning in instances ;) |
| 05:47.23 | Jerub | but everything there drops 2-4 borean |
| 05:47.33 | Dagmar | I skin everything that's "in my way" |
| 05:47.46 | Jerub | tee hee |
| 05:47.52 | Dagmar | ...plus I didn't realize I had been stashing so many away when they hit rock bottom in the AH |
| 05:47.59 | Jerub | do you get as irritated as i do when the tank is chain pulling and not looting? |
| 05:48.35 | Dagmar | Most of the time I'm running with guild people and there's a tacit agreement that I do *not* flood the guild bank with stuff likke that |
| 05:48.51 | Dagmar | By BY GOD no one in my guild wants for lack of leather goods. :) |
| 05:49.24 | Dagmar | I was just keeping a set of all the purples in the guild bank |
| 05:51.20 | Dagmar | I'm about to watch W7 explode muchly here in a bit, I'm sure. |
| 05:51.28 | Jerub | W7? |
| 05:51.46 | Jerub | oh, you've got the exploit lined up and ready to shoot? |
| 05:51.48 | Dagmar | Windows 7 |
| 05:51.55 | Dagmar | No, just trying to _use_ it |
| 05:51.59 | Jerub | oooh right. |
| 05:52.04 | Jerub | puts crash.py away. |
| 05:52.08 | Dagmar | Champions Online is making the 8800 wheeze and pant on 32-bit XP |
| 05:52.25 | Dagmar | So... with W7 64-bit, Dalaran actually behaves better. |
| 05:52.40 | Jerub | i'm on ppc64/tiger and dalaran sucks. |
| 05:52.42 | Dagmar | I'm about to throw Aion and Champions Online at W7 and um probably order another video card, btu we'll see |
| 05:53.15 | Shirik | Lol |
| 05:54.08 | Shirik | My school sends out these messages from career services "weekly job list" -- it's getting caught by the school's spam filter because it includes things like "APPLY NOW" and, my favorite part, the fact that "Specialist" includes "Cialis" |
| 05:54.37 | Jerub | Shirik: win. |
| 05:55.13 | Jerub | Shirik: any spam filter that relies on content examination has already lost the war on spam. |
| 05:55.51 | Shirik | what I really don't get is it's classified as "explicit" |
| 05:55.56 | Dagmar | Whoa. 9800 GTXs have hit the $120 mark |
| 05:56.22 | Arrowmaster | my school uses gmail and some of their first emails after switching everything to gmail got flagged as spam |
| 05:56.24 | Dagmar | I guess that's a sign it's time to upgrade |
| 05:56.56 | Shirik | 25Contains Stringvirgin |
| 05:56.57 | Shirik | seriously? |
| 05:57.03 | Shirik | Because it has the word "Virginia" in it? |
| 05:57.15 | Arrowmaster | what spam filter are you using? |
| 05:57.23 | Shirik | some POS |
| 05:57.27 | Arrowmaster | seriously |
| 05:57.31 | Shirik | MessageScreen |
| 05:57.46 | Arrowmaster | it should match words with extra spaces in them but not missing spaces |
| 05:58.02 | Jerub | tee hee |
| 05:58.05 | Shirik | O |
| 05:58.09 | Shirik | I'm not sure if it's not my school's fault |
| 05:58.19 | Shirik | I don't know if it comes with the rules or if IT comes up with the rules |
| 05:58.29 | Shirik | I would not be surprised if IT makes stupid rules like these... |
| 05:58.31 | Arrowmaster | its your schools fault for even using it |
| 05:58.46 | Shirik | 90 (30 x 3)For Each Instanceanal |
| 05:58.48 | Arrowmaster | spamassassin is the only option |
| 05:58.49 | Shirik | -90 (-30 x 3)For Each Instanceanaly |
| 05:59.12 | Shirik | Because, you know, we never use the letters "anal" together for any other reason |
| 05:59.36 | Arrowmaster | when the hell does spam ever contain the word anal? |
| 06:00.03 | Shirik | this is under the "explicit" filter |
| 06:00.11 | Arrowmaster | .... |
| 06:00.12 | Shirik | "Explicit Content Score Details" |
| 06:00.22 | Arrowmaster | why the hell is there an explicit filter? |
| 06:00.41 | Shirik | WTF IS THIS RULE |
| 06:00.47 | Shirik | 15SubjectContains String, |
| 06:00.54 | Shirik | You're not allowed to have a comma in the subject? |
| 06:01.35 | Jerub | Shirik: actually, look at that. |
| 06:01.52 | Jerub | it looks like it's counted 3 'anal' as 90, but reversed it for 'analy' |
| 06:01.58 | Shirik | well yes JerekDain |
| 06:02.00 | Shirik | Jerub |
| 06:02.03 | Shirik | but my point is |
| 06:02.19 | Shirik | unless they covered every possible word |
| 06:02.22 | Jerub | yeah, it's insane. |
| 06:02.33 | Shirik | I think it's stupid to try to catch every combination of "anal" and then try to undo it for correct words |
| 06:02.34 | Jerub | my spam filtering doesn't do anything that nuts. |
| 06:03.04 | Shirik | This is awesome too |
| 06:03.07 | Jerub | it just uses word boundaries. and we don't have any default rules that search for any words at all. that's for anal retentive administrators to do. |
| 06:03.07 | Shirik | 20Contains Stringhttp://2 |
| 06:03.12 | Shirik | I haven't been able to figure that one out |
| 06:03.37 | Jerub | Shirik: that's detecting an ip address url. |
| 06:03.45 | Jerub | i.e. http://203.12.41.21/ |
| 06:03.50 | Shirik | horrible way to do it |
| 06:03.53 | Jerub | but also the website for my conference: http://2009.osdc.com.au/ |
| 06:03.53 | Shirik | they have regex support |
| 06:03.55 | Jerub | no kidding! |
| 06:04.15 | Arrowmaster | im guessing your school IT department, like all others, are fucking retards |
| 06:04.32 | Jerub | yep, they are. |
| 06:04.41 | Shirik | they are |
| 06:04.49 | Shirik | I kicked them out of one of my labs |
| 06:04.54 | Shirik | so I try to avoid them as much as possible |
| 06:05.30 | Arrowmaster | are you just a student? |
| 06:05.47 | Arrowmaster | or a TA or something? |
| 06:05.56 | Shirik | TA yes |
| 06:06.05 | Shirik | but um |
| 06:06.15 | Shirik | I'm a student with access to pretty much every lab in the building |
| 06:06.19 | Shirik | because I actually know how to fix things |
| 06:06.22 | Shirik | and IT knows how to break things |
| 06:07.04 | Shirik | so I eventually complained about how IT continually broke this one set of computers, even after I told them "you cannot install this update or these computers will die" twice. So, complaining to the dean == IT no longer allowed in that room, and we're responsible for the computers ourselves. |
| 06:07.07 | Thunder_Child | i used to work in the IT department at my school |
| 06:07.26 | Arrowmaster | this semester im going to be in the same lab again that ive been in for the past 3 semesters, except this time ive got one of the stupid teachers instead of the part time teacher that designed the lab |
| 06:07.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c222127.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:07.36 | Shirik | So now problems with that lab go to me, lol |
| 06:08.08 | Arrowmaster | IT kept breaking the printer in that lab |
| 06:08.20 | Jerub | are wow's statistics always stupidly broken? |
| 06:08.38 | Shirik | ? |
| 06:09.23 | Jerub | looking at my stats on wowarmory, apparently under dungeons&raids->call of the crusade i've never beaten any boss on norm or heroic toc, but i've killd Koralon the Flame Watcher on both 10 and 25 man. |
| 06:09.37 | Jerub | i've only killed him on 25. |
| 06:10.21 | Arrowmaster | every computer in the lab has 3 nics, and theres 2 or 3 physical networks that are seperate, except theres a switch or router somewhere that connects them, you are suppost to be able to print to this printer from either network but for some reason whenever you set the default gateway on the printer it only works for that network then |
| 06:10.34 | Arrowmaster | they kept setting the default gateway |
| 06:11.31 | Arrowmaster | or replacing the printer, saying 'ok we fixed it', and leaving the default gateway set on the new printer |
| 06:11.40 | Shirik | lol |
| 06:11.46 | Shirik | they don't even test it? |
| 06:12.01 | Arrowmaster | not on the secondary network |
| 06:13.13 | Arrowmaster | all the computers connect to the primary school network, and when we run vmware it uses the other network adapters and secondary network |
| 06:13.44 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (n=sven@L0.moenchengladbach01.fdknet.de) |
| 06:14.00 | Arrowmaster | oh yeah i should take my boot cd with me so i can create an admin account on the computer again |
| 06:28.47 | Shirik | I'm bored |
| 06:28.50 | Shirik | someone givem e something to do |
| 06:29.04 | Thunder_Child | bake cookies |
| 06:33.15 | Corrodias | play dungeon siege 2 |
| 06:33.41 | Shirik | I have no baking sheets |
| 06:34.18 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@99-57-35-45.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:34.47 | Thunder_Child | you have never baked cookies before Shirik? |
| 06:34.56 | Shirik | I never said that |
| 06:35.26 | Thunder_Child | then how do you not have sheets? |
| 06:37.19 | Shirik | I use those disposable ones |
| 06:37.25 | Shirik | maybe I could clean one off I guess |
| 06:39.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 06:41.11 | Thunder_Child | disposable? you sir, are not a proper cook! |
| 06:42.03 | Fisker | slaps Thunder_Child around a bit with a large trout |
| 06:42.17 | Fisker | gentlemen |
| 06:46.46 | the-golem | Fisker: lies |
| 06:48.02 | Fisker | herro |
| 06:48.11 | the-golem | h'lo |
| 06:48.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 06:48.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 06:54.52 | industrial | I now have a button in winwodws 7 that just locks up my pc and nothing else |
| 06:55.01 | industrial | (my audio driver icon) |
| 06:55.02 | Corrodias | cool |
| 06:55.15 | Jerub | sweet. |
| 06:55.18 | industrial | (why do audio 'drivers' always have their own mixer just make it so i hear shit!) |
| 06:55.25 | Jerub | industrial: i don't need that button, i have a program that crashes windows 7 remotely. |
| 06:59.32 | Fisker | no you don't |
| 06:59.44 | haste | and it's written in python! |
| 06:59.47 | haste | ~wowalert |
| 06:59.48 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 06:59.59 | Fisker | your mom was written in python haste |
| 07:00.04 | Jerub | no i don't what? |
| 07:00.12 | Jerub | have a tool that will crash a windows machine? |
| 07:00.21 | haste | it's Fisker Jerub |
| 07:00.21 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 07:00.32 | Jerub | wait, who's fisker? |
| 07:00.34 | Jerub | I'm not fisker. |
| 07:01.31 | *** join/#wowuidev NightHawkTheSan1 (n=jonathan@63-231-23-41.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 07:02.27 | Fisker | i'm Fisker |
| 07:02.28 | Jerub | I'm actually really tempted to rewrite this so it takes a subnet on the commandline. |
| 07:02.35 | Jerub | your mum's fisker. |
| 07:02.39 | Fisker | naw |
| 07:02.47 | Fisker | go ahed |
| 07:02.51 | Fisker | ahead* |
| 07:02.58 | Fisker | you still won't crash any windows 7 machines |
| 07:03.39 | Jerub | i already have... |
| 07:03.59 | haste | why would you want to do something like that Jerub? |
| 07:04.07 | Dagmar | I'm about to crash this one by force majeure |
| 07:04.34 | Dagmar | It just needs to fail without a good explanation on uncompressing this nine gigabyte file one more time |
| 07:05.41 | Jerub | Dagmar: what's the filesystem? |
| 07:05.46 | Dagmar | NTFS |
| 07:05.51 | Jerub | hm, should work. |
| 07:06.01 | Jerub | probably ram or something. is it a zip file or something more fancy? |
| 07:06.05 | Dagmar | No doubt |
| 07:06.11 | Dagmar | It's not RAM |
| 07:06.23 | Dagmar | It's a 7zip archive because I'm certain that won't eff up |
| 07:06.56 | Dagmar | I don't mind it screwing up, so much as I mind it taking ten minutes to do it |
| 07:07.33 | Dagmar | It *probably* finally noticed that about eight minutes before I was ruthlessly clicking on the Cancel and Close buttons to no avail |
| 07:08.27 | haste | it's always amazed me how many people add a cancel button that usually doesn't work |
| 07:10.56 | Arrowmaster | its kinda hard to cancel when your app isnt multithreaded so your interface cant be used while the app is doing work |
| 07:13.29 | haste | I'm fully aware of that |
| 07:15.32 | Shirik | it makes people feel more secure, haste |
| 07:15.38 | Shirik | make people think they're in control |
| 07:15.52 | haste | people are odd |
| 07:15.55 | haste | we need more haiku! |
| 07:16.44 | the-golem | mmmm haiku |
| 07:16.50 | the-golem | with rice? |
| 07:16.52 | the-golem | ;-) |
| 07:17.05 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobwork@136.136.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 07:17.46 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:17.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Zeksie (n=zeksie@cpc1-nott9-0-0-cust756.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 07:18.00 | haste | wat |
| 07:18.01 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:18.46 | WobWork | people put a cancel button on dialogs to raise your hopes |
| 07:19.11 | WobWork | people feel more comfortable if they're under the impression they can break out of an operation at any time |
| 07:19.15 | WobWork | even if in reality they can't |
| 07:19.24 | Dagmar | Well, in this case I suspect it's got something to do with the disagreement between windows and 7zip about what certain window attributes mean |
| 07:19.41 | Dagmar | Man Windows 7 is *secure* |
| 07:19.52 | Corrodias | what are you talking about? |
| 07:19.57 | Dagmar | It won't even let me have access to my own @#$%@ files right now |
| 07:20.04 | Dagmar | They've got to sort this permissions thing out |
| 07:20.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (n=faggotry@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 07:20.08 | Corrodias | what attribute? |
| 07:20.13 | WobWork | We don't want to let the unwashed masses access to FILES |
| 07:20.19 | Dagmar | Just the usual "let me read the damn file" attributes, actually. |
| 07:20.44 | Corrodias | there are no such attributes. do you mean access permissions and/or ownership? |
| 07:20.44 | Dagmar | I've got an ongoing game here of W7 pretending to adjust the ACLs for the WinXP drive |
| 07:20.47 | Jerub | *grin* |
| 07:20.52 | Corrodias | yeah, don't extract those... |
| 07:21.07 | Jerub | sounds just like the horror and frustration that is selinux. |
| 07:21.17 | Dagmar | Well, this is just plain "effing up" |
| 07:21.41 | Dagmar | It seems that it fails to actually recurse properly when adding new ACLs |
| 07:21.55 | Dagmar | So I get to go through the permissions structure one directory at a time |
| 07:21.57 | Dagmar | yay |
| 07:22.02 | Corrodias | D: |
| 07:22.16 | Dagmar | ~fail corrodias |
| 07:22.17 | purl | corrodias: FAIL! |
| 07:22.18 | Corrodias | are they all set to inherit permissions, and you're telling the top-level one to replace permissions on all subdirectories? |
| 07:22.25 | Dagmar | Telling it to add |
| 07:22.41 | Dagmar | I watched it fail to do this to D:\ across the board several times, but never figured out why |
| 07:22.50 | Dagmar | NOW I see that it's just flat out failing to recurse |
| 07:23.24 | Fisker | if only someone would, or could crash my Windows 7 box :( |
| 07:23.45 | Dagmar | I can check each one as admininstrator and actually see that it never added the joe user to the list below the top of where I told it |
| 07:23.54 | Shirik | Dagmar: don't do that |
| 07:23.57 | Shirik | use cacls |
| 07:24.04 | Dagmar | Yeah well, I'm gullible |
| 07:24.20 | Corrodias | did you tell it to replace inheritable permissions on all subfolders? work with me, baby. |
| 07:24.24 | Shirik | if you ever have to recursively set permissions, I just use cacls |
| 07:24.24 | Dagmar | I expect that when W7 hands you a nice tool that's supposed to do it because you were clearly wanting it done, that it won't fail |
| 07:24.33 | Dagmar | cacls is about to be the next weapon against |
| 07:24.34 | Dagmar | it |
| 07:24.56 | Dagmar | I've done this same thing on NT4 and Vista even 2000 |
| 07:25.46 | Dagmar | I'm half tempted to just run the VMware image and share the damn files to myself over SMB |
| 07:26.36 | Dagmar | Man where's that Windows Experience Improvement button when you need it |
| 07:27.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.hjnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 07:27.47 | Jerub | i have a workmate who has had success with every windows machine he's dealt with. |
| 07:27.50 | Jerub | servers, desktops, whatever. |
| 07:28.01 | Dagmar | Check under his dresser for the contract he signed with Satan |
| 07:28.12 | Dagmar | ...or his mouse for teethmarks, |
| 07:28.12 | olafski | I love every windows machine I've used too |
| 07:28.19 | Jerub | we have him writing real software, but when the task is, "get squid to work with kerberos auth against windows 2008" somehow he gets it done. |
| 07:28.42 | Dagmar | You're not trying hard enough |
| 07:28.49 | Dagmar | Make him link it with LDAP |
| 07:29.02 | Jerub | this is with windows 7 clients as well. |
| 07:29.32 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@115.170.188.90) |
| 07:30.40 | Dagmar | This is the first issue I've had with W7 but it's pretty spectacular |
| 07:33.24 | Shirik | What's the difference between perl's 'join' and dot operator? |
| 07:34.16 | Fisker | Jerub when are you going to crash me? :( |
| 07:36.18 | Dagmar | The dot operator is for concatenating strings together. |
| 07:36.26 | Dagmar | Join concatenates array elements into one string |
| 07:36.53 | Dagmar | ...hence the @ARG |
| 07:37.01 | *** join/#wowuidev kbsd (i=k@tcl.divx.se) |
| 07:41.12 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 07:42.20 | Shirik | hm? |
| 07:42.24 | Shirik | I was told |
| 07:42.34 | Shirik | join "foo", "bar", "baz" would yield "foobarbaz" |
| 07:42.44 | Dagmar | Yes, but that's a bizarre way to use it |
| 07:42.48 | *** join/#wowuidev pb_ee1 (n=nospam@meilleu015869-2.clients.easynet.fr) |
| 07:43.06 | Shirik | ok |
| 07:43.08 | Shirik | good enough for me |
| 07:43.10 | *** join/#wowuidev ilovemrdoe (i=ddd@93.182.190.67) |
| 07:43.13 | Dagmar | $soup = "alpha" . "bets"; |
| 07:43.32 | Shirik | isn't it called "alphabits"? |
| 07:43.37 | Dagmar | Not exactly a good idea to make it turn something into an array just to turn it back into a simple scalar |
| 07:43.46 | Dagmar | That's not soup. |
| 07:43.50 | Shirik | I wasn't aware that it took arrays |
| 07:43.57 | Dagmar | Yes, that's the point of join. |
| 07:43.57 | Shirik | I just saw this being discussed and I don't know perl at all |
| 07:44.04 | Dagmar | Join and split are cousins |
| 07:44.40 | Dagmar | If you have "All work and no play makes jack a homocidal lunatic" and you want those words in an array, split(/ /, "long string of words here") |
| 07:44.42 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 07:44.54 | Dagmar | If you want to turn it back later, you use join |
| 07:44.54 | the-golem | I bite my keyboard |
| 07:45.11 | the-golem | Slimmer, easier to fit in mouth :P |
| 07:45.20 | olafski | *cough* %w{long string of words here} :P |
| 07:45.41 | haste | welcome to perl |
| 07:45.42 | Shirik | is that seriously perl? |
| 07:45.45 | olafski | no :) |
| 07:45.48 | haste | the language with 312312323 solutions to everything |
| 07:45.49 | Shirik | ok |
| 07:45.51 | haste | bawww |
| 07:45.53 | olafski | it's Ruby |
| 07:45.55 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 07:45.56 | Shirik | haste: And none of them readable |
| 07:46.00 | haste | yy |
| 07:46.02 | Dagmar | They're all quite readable. |
| 07:46.02 | the-golem | lol |
| 07:46.03 | olafski | agreed shirik |
| 07:46.21 | olafski | perl is so horrible to me.. never used it but I can't usually figure out what they're doing if I look at code |
| 07:46.25 | haste | and so is all J/K/R/Q/S solutions Dagmar ! |
| 07:46.26 | the-golem | 321321312321 solutions to everything sounds like python |
| 07:46.31 | Dagmar | ...but if you go 'round doing things like join "word", "notherword", "and" you should expect what you get |
| 07:46.37 | haste | no |
| 07:46.39 | Shirik | hey like I said |
| 07:46.40 | the-golem | hides again |
| 07:46.44 | haste | python has like 2 solutions to everything |
| 07:46.47 | Shirik | that's what I saw in use, and I saw it really wierd |
| 07:46.57 | Dagmar | They were just being stupid |
| 07:47.15 | Dagmar | I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure that that's just a computationally wasteful way to use join |
| 07:47.44 | Dagmar | Join is for things like $rec = join(':', $login,$passwd,$uid,$gid,$gcos,$home,$shell); |
| 07:47.47 | Shirik | seems logical to me |
| 07:47.54 | Dagmar | ...which makes sense that way |
| 07:48.43 | Dagmar | $lol = join(':', split(':', $gecos)); |
| 07:51.35 | Dagmar | This would also be one of those cases where I *think* you could yank out the parentheses if you wanted more hate mail |
| 07:54.48 | haste | sounds like something haste would do |
| 07:56.12 | Dagmar | Some people get upset when they see perl that heavily relies on the way perl treats scalars and arrays |
| 07:56.13 | Shirik | why do people like perl again? |
| 07:56.21 | Dagmar | Because it's really, really fast |
| 07:56.29 | Shirik | how do you define fast |
| 07:56.34 | Shirik | computationally? |
| 07:56.36 | Corrodias | because it's like php, i dunno |
| 07:56.40 | theorbtwo | Shirik: I can get something done quickly. |
| 07:56.41 | Dagmar | If you have to glue things together or process text, it takes no time to write perl code at all |
| 07:56.54 | Shirik | so you mean development time |
| 07:56.58 | Dagmar | When it comes to strings, it can _almost_ do as well as pure C regexp |
| 07:57.12 | haste | Shirik: obviously, not like any script language beats lua these days |
| 07:57.12 | Dagmar | Development time, and operational time for what it was meant for |
| 07:57.12 | theorbtwo | That is, I can write something in 5 minutes that would take me 5 days to write in C. |
| 07:57.14 | Shirik | Ok, so you sacrifice all maintainability by gaining implementation speed |
| 07:57.22 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 07:57.27 | theorbtwo | Shirik: No, quite the oppisite, really. |
| 07:57.30 | Corrodias | sounds like that's what they mean, yeah |
| 07:57.39 | Shirik | You cannot argue perl is more maintainable than other languages |
| 07:57.46 | theorbtwo | Shirik: I most certianly can. |
| 07:57.53 | haste | lua-jit is like 4 times slower than native code! |
| 07:57.54 | Dagmar | You can't argue that it's completely unmaintainable either |
| 07:58.02 | Shirik | I would love to see that justification, the-golem |
| 07:58.03 | haste | you know what? |
| 07:58.04 | theorbtwo | It doesn't have the manual memory management tricks of C, for example. |
| 07:58.05 | Shirik | theorbtwo |
| 07:58.06 | haste | let's just say this |
| 07:58.09 | haste | at least it isn't PHP |
| 07:58.18 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: If you need those tricks, you're _using the wrong language_ |
| 07:58.22 | Shirik | theorbtwo, I never said C was maintainable |
| 07:58.28 | Shirik | I am not a fan of C |
| 07:58.33 | Shirik | C++ is much better |
| 07:58.35 | Dagmar | Don't blame perl because it doesn't do things it was by and large NOT built for |
| 07:58.56 | Dagmar | If you want to do a bunch of math ops on a large chunk of binary data, and you're doing it in perl, you need to be slapped until you sober up |
| 07:59.16 | Shirik | perl was written to be a text processor, as I understand it |
| 07:59.17 | haste | D is much better! |
| 07:59.20 | Shirik | but people use it for everything |
| 07:59.28 | Dagmar | If you need to soak up a few terabytes of some text and force it down your SQL server's throat, perl has your back |
| 07:59.28 | Shirik | the second half of that is what I don't understand |
| 07:59.38 | theorbtwo | Shirik: You still need to do manual memory management of many things in C++ -- you still need to not return pointers to static data, you still need to do reference counting yourself for when you return pointers to anything. |
| 07:59.43 | Shirik | no theorbtwo |
| 07:59.48 | Shirik | a good C++ programmer knows what RAII is |
| 07:59.55 | haste | rai rai? |
| 08:00.00 | Shirik | and if you follow RAII, you will have maintainable memory management |
| 08:00.12 | Dagmar | Shirik: This would be because even if it doesn't do them great, for small tasks you can slap a perl program together that will do it in a VERY short amoutn of time |
| 08:00.19 | theorbtwo | Shirik: RAII is a trick. |
| 08:00.23 | Corrodias | <Shirik> a Shirik C++ programmer knows what RAII is |
| 08:00.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125-239-28-214.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 08:00.25 | Shirik | RAII is not a trick |
| 08:00.39 | Shirik | it is an intelligent paradigm |
| 08:00.49 | Arrowmaster | a lot of open source developers prefer C over C++ just because it keeps the idiots out |
| 08:01.15 | Shirik | If you are allocating memory in a function and then returning it from a function in C++, you are Doing it Wrong (tm) |
| 08:01.56 | Corrodias | makes sense |
| 08:02.00 | Corrodias | is that it? |
| 08:02.03 | Dagmar | Another big thing perl coders like is relatively painless associative arrays |
| 08:02.05 | theorbtwo | Shirik: RAII is a way of working around the limitations of the language. It's a fairly elegant way, sure. Yes, you are doing it wrong, in C++. |
| 08:02.21 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@193.252.170.81) |
| 08:02.23 | Shirik | theorbtwo: No, RAII is a way of using C++'s features |
| 08:02.35 | Shirik | Read the C++ bible before you make statements like that |
| 08:02.38 | Shirik | C++ was designed around RAII |
| 08:02.48 | Shirik | not the other way around |
| 08:03.17 | Dagmar | It's a formal way of saying "Don't write things like join "olle", "mysw", "nbutt" |
| 08:03.23 | tem | Any of you leveled through Hellfire Peninsula lately? |
| 08:03.46 | Shirik | Besides, if you really need reference counting, use an auto pointer |
| 08:03.56 | tem | or just happen to know off the top of your head if you hit honored with honor hold before you finish the zone |
| 08:03.56 | Shirik | There's no "limitation" of this feature in C++ |
| 08:03.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 08:04.00 | theorbtwo | OTOH, sometimes that's exactly what the clearest way of writing it would be, except for the fact that it sucks... in C++. |
| 08:04.02 | Dagmar | Is it feeling all peaceful and tranquil to you now that you can see Fel Reavers from MILES away? |
| 08:04.15 | Dagmar | Oh you get close |
| 08:04.22 | Dagmar | I just remember it wasn't a problem |
| 08:04.49 | Dagmar | I've done it since they made DK's but I split out of there the moment I got 3/4 through Zangarmash for Northrend |
| 08:04.58 | theorbtwo | Shirik: Have you ever read the C++ FQA? |
| 08:05.00 | kd3 | meh... I still have fond memories of seeing the camera shake and me mashing the run key and only getting about 15 feet before getting stomped |
| 08:05.13 | Dagmar | Frequently Questionable Answers? |
| 08:05.22 | Shirik | nope, theorbtwo |
| 08:05.29 | theorbtwo | Frequently Questioned Answers. |
| 08:05.47 | tem | Basically, I'm trying to decide if I should wait to buy flying on my pally who just hit 60 |
| 08:05.57 | tem | in order to wait for the faction discount at honored |
| 08:06.39 | *** join/#wowuidev art3mis_ (n=art3mis@lethargic.gothi.ca) |
| 08:06.40 | Dagmar | I didn't bother to teach the DK to fly until he was ready to hit the Tournament |
| 08:06.40 | Slafsinator | in order to save what, 1g? |
| 08:06.43 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-088-077-213-049.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:06.45 | theorbtwo | tem: I hit 60 pretty recently... and presently, I don't really want a new mount, or, at least, I don't want it 500 gold worth. |
| 08:06.47 | Corrodias | this is what's bad about C++ |
| 08:06.49 | tem | more like 250ish |
| 08:06.52 | Corrodias | it's mired in philosophy and legacy |
| 08:06.58 | Dagmar | I was too busy leveling to bother flying with the free epic land mount |
| 08:07.08 | Shirik | Corrodias, what do you mean by this? |
| 08:07.21 | Shirik | I think C++ suffers from only one fault: Trying to be compatible with C |
| 08:07.34 | Arrowmaster | but it isnt |
| 08:07.36 | Corrodias | that is what i meant by legacy |
| 08:07.45 | Shirik | However there are a lot of things that C++ does differently from Java not because of C, but rather because Java is broken |
| 08:07.52 | Corrodias | as for philosophy, people arguing about how to use it "right" |
| 08:08.06 | Shirik | I don't think there is any argument between C++'s users on how to use it right |
| 08:08.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0134.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:08.13 | Arrowmaster | there is |
| 08:08.14 | Shirik | I think the argument comes from people without experience with C++ |
| 08:08.31 | kd3 | "don't shoot yourself in the foot, taking your leg with it" |
| 08:08.32 | tem | Java is a perfectly cromulent language |
| 08:08.32 | Shirik | That is, people familiar with C trying to write C++ code and refusing to believe that they need to accept a new paradigm |
| 08:08.35 | kd3 | isn't that the only rule? |
| 08:08.47 | theorbtwo | Dagmar: Free epic land mount? |
| 08:09.08 | Shirik | I honestly rarely see disputes regarding these practices between experienced C++ developers |
| 08:09.11 | the-golem | Shirik: I don't need justification. I have no grounds to stand on. |
| 08:09.35 | the-golem | :-) |
| 08:10.01 | theorbtwo | Shirik: There's a certian echo-chamber effect in what you are claming there -- people become experinced C++ devs because they are OK with the way C++ does things. |
| 08:10.30 | theorbtwo | For that matter, you are, I have little doubt, calling somebody experinced mostly because you see that they are OK with the way you think of experinced C++ devs do things. |
| 08:10.32 | Shirik | I admit C++ has its faults, but it is one of the best OOP languages I've worked with so far |
| 08:10.36 | the-golem | I know a guy that can do practically anything in python. I don't know anything about the language myself. |
| 08:10.51 | theorbtwo | Shirik: I admit Perl has its faults, but it is one of the best languages I've worked with so far. |
| 08:11.02 | Shirik | I don't know anything about Perl |
| 08:11.09 | Shirik | so I can't confirm or deny that |
| 08:11.10 | theorbtwo | Shirik: I know very little about C++. |
| 08:11.18 | Shirik | then why are you trying to make this argument against it :P |
| 08:11.18 | the-golem | lol |
| 08:11.30 | Arrowmaster | cant you write a css decoder in 2 lines of perl? |
| 08:11.37 | theorbtwo | Shirik: Becuase you made the argument that Perl was unmaintainable. |
| 08:11.53 | theorbtwo | Arrowmaster: Probably. I'd use a few more then that. |
| 08:11.55 | Shirik | That mostly stems from the fact that everyone I've talked to (including people that love perl) admit that perl is unreadable |
| 08:12.06 | theorbtwo | Of course, one of the lines would be "use CSS::Parser", or the like. |
| 08:12.16 | Arrowmaster | wrong kinda css |
| 08:12.19 | theorbtwo | Shirik: That's ... somewhat surprising. |
| 08:12.25 | Arrowmaster | dvd css |
| 08:12.28 | Shirik | I think the most common example I've seen cited is something like |
| 08:12.30 | theorbtwo | OH! |
| 08:12.39 | Shirik | while (<>) { print $_ } |
| 08:12.41 | Shirik | or something like that |
| 08:12.43 | the-golem | perl CAN be unreadable. |
| 08:12.49 | theorbtwo | Shirik: Yeah. I don't find that unreadable. |
| 08:12.54 | the-golem | that doesn't mean you hafta write it like that. |
| 08:13.20 | theorbtwo | Perl can be difficult to read if you don't know perl. So can C++, or English. |
| 08:13.30 | Shirik | granted |
| 08:13.38 | Shirik | to me that looks unreadable, but I also didn't come up with that example |
| 08:13.40 | the-golem | English can be difficult to read regardless. |
| 08:13.46 | Shirik | that is an example I was cited by someone who uses perl daily |
| 08:13.55 | Shirik | All this being said |
| 08:14.02 | Shirik | I'm learning a new language and paradigm now |
| 08:14.02 | Arrowmaster | either you are going to say lua is easy to read if you don't know it or i guess im special |
| 08:14.05 | Shirik | and it is REALLY cool |
| 08:14.08 | haste | the-golem: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo! |
| 08:14.14 | Shirik | aspect-oriented programming (and AspectJ) |
| 08:14.43 | Shirik | and I'll admit initially I found it unreadable |
| 08:14.49 | Shirik | but it's really neat |
| 08:15.11 | the-golem | haste: you do what to cows? |
| 08:15.25 | Arrowmaster | i learned lua from reading other peoples code, i could just about always figure out what it was doing |
| 08:15.29 | theorbtwo | Shirik: That's one thing I like about perl; it's very flexable, so you can easily bring in lots of different philosophies without abandoning the language. |
| 08:15.44 | Arrowmaster | ive managed to hack my way through C code like that but i still dont really understand it well |
| 08:15.46 | Shirik | I doubt perl can do aspect-oriented programming :P |
| 08:15.49 | theorbtwo | You don't need an AspectPerl, an aspect library for perl is quite sufficent. |
| 08:15.53 | theorbtwo | Shirik: It can. |
| 08:15.58 | Shirik | how is that possible |
| 08:16.02 | Shirik | you need an aspect weaver |
| 08:16.09 | Arrowmaster | i tried to figure out what some perl code as doing and i had to go find some docs to figure out what the fuck 'my' was |
| 08:16.31 | Arrowmaster | and i still dont understand it |
| 08:16.38 | theorbtwo | Shirik: What's an aspect weaver? It's just running some code references. |
| 08:16.50 | Shirik | I don't even think Lua's metamethods can handle aspect oriented programming |
| 08:17.06 | Arrowmaster | lua cant do proper OO |
| 08:17.09 | Arrowmaster | period |
| 08:17.12 | theorbtwo | Arrowmaster: What background are you coming from? "my" is, in essence, a declaration of a variable. |
| 08:17.19 | the-golem | Arrowmaster: its like 'local' or something |
| 08:17.25 | Shirik | aspect weaver is like a compiler which "weaves" the aspects into code |
| 08:17.39 | Shirik | combines the business logic code with the aspects which have been created |
| 08:17.47 | Arrowmaster | the-golem: i know that but i dont have a clue what the difference between my and local is |
| 08:18.13 | theorbtwo | When beginning, these days, it's easy -- don't use local. |
| 08:18.48 | Fisker | kisses Shirik |
| 08:19.08 | the-golem | Arrowmaster: they are visible only to whatever names them. It's sorta like a private var |
| 08:19.15 | theorbtwo | (There's a few exceptions -- if you want a good explination, read http://perl.plover.com/FAQs/Namespaces.html , and http://perl.plover.com/local.html) |
| 08:19.55 | Shirik | Let's have a vote |
| 08:20.00 | theorbtwo | Oh, hm, I should email him -- several of his useful uses of local don't need local anymore. |
| 08:20.03 | Kalroth | I vote for Fisker!! |
| 08:20.07 | Shirik | worst mainstream language? |
| 08:20.09 | theorbtwo | Shirik: I may be confusing aspect with something else. |
| 08:20.20 | theorbtwo | php |
| 08:20.22 | Kalroth | Shirik: Python! |
| 08:20.22 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: anything that ends in .NET |
| 08:20.26 | the-golem | lol |
| 08:20.28 | Arrowmaster | oh php is a good one too |
| 08:20.29 | Shirik | .NET isn't a language :P |
| 08:20.34 | the-golem | asp :P |
| 08:20.38 | Shirik | I couldn't decide between PHP and VB |
| 08:20.45 | Kalroth | Shirik: I know, it's a trick question; spanish! |
| 08:20.53 | the-golem | haha |
| 08:21.00 | theorbtwo | Java is a close second. |
| 08:22.02 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: you were saying something about lua not being able to do aspect whatever right? |
| 08:22.14 | Shirik | I said I wasn't sure if it can |
| 08:22.15 | jnwhiteh | Shirik: the abc compiler is better than the AspectJ one :P |
| 08:22.20 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: http://aspectlua.luaforge.net/ |
| 08:22.36 | Shirik | nice Arrowmaster :) |
| 08:22.46 | Shirik | jnwhiteh: I'm just getting started with AOP so I don't really know all the choices yet :) |
| 08:23.44 | theorbtwo | http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Aspect-0.21/lib/Aspect.pm seems to be the way of doing AOP in Perl, or, at least, the obvious-looking one. |
| 08:23.51 | theorbtwo | There's an Aspect::Weaver in there. |
| 08:26.09 | theorbtwo | In fact, Aspect::Weaver looks to be quite simple. Dynamic languages, and easy closures allow for some pretty powerful things. |
| 08:26.37 | Shirik | I see, they do the weaving whenever an advice is created |
| 08:26.37 | theorbtwo | Shirik: Have you looked at the new closures-in-C-derived-languages stuff in Snow Lepoard, BTW? |
| 08:26.51 | Shirik | the what? o.o |
| 08:27.11 | Shirik | C++ supports closures in C++0x btw :D |
| 08:27.12 | theorbtwo | Hold on a sec, let me find it. |
| 08:27.27 | theorbtwo | Hm, interesting, I hadn't heard that. |
| 08:27.32 | Shirik | it's kinda ugly though imo |
| 08:28.52 | Shirik | for example if you have a bunch of numbers, std::vector<int> |
| 08:29.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 08:29.03 | Shirik | std:vector<int> set; |
| 08:29.45 | theorbtwo | Hm, does it look like a function pointer declartion, with a ^ instead of a *? If so, that's the same as Snow Lepoard. |
| 08:29.54 | theorbtwo | Er, isn't that just a variable declaration? |
| 08:29.55 | Shirik | you can sum them with int sum = 0; std::for_each(set.begin(), set.end(), [&sum](int v) { sum += v;}); |
| 08:30.05 | Fisker | Shirik norwegian |
| 08:30.25 | Fisker | Jerub is a jerk btw :( |
| 08:30.28 | Shirik | where the [&sum](int v) ... creates an anonymous closure |
| 08:30.30 | Fisker | He won't crash my computer |
| 08:30.54 | Shirik | you can't actually specify types of closures, theorbtwo, you would just use "auto" |
| 08:30.56 | Shirik | so like |
| 08:31.07 | Shirik | auto myClosure = [&sum](int v) { sum += v;} |
| 08:31.31 | Shirik | or maybe there is a type |
| 08:31.33 | Shirik | I just haven't seen it used |
| 08:31.44 | Shirik | it may be incredibly complex and better for the compiler to figure it out |
| 08:31.59 | theorbtwo | Ah. Yeah, those seem quite different from Snow Lepoard's, and I think I like Apple's better, which is rather a shame. |
| 08:32.05 | Shirik | I said it was ugly :) |
| 08:32.15 | theorbtwo | I thought auto was a storage class? Is it a way of specifing types now too? |
| 08:32.25 | Shirik | yeah it has a new functionality |
| 08:32.34 | Shirik | it acts like C#'s "var" keyword |
| 08:32.44 | theorbtwo | Interesting. |
| 08:32.50 | Shirik | tells the compiler to figure out the type on its own, without losing type safety |
| 08:32.57 | Shirik | it's necessary for some of the other constructs |
| 08:33.01 | haste | the-golem: just some valid english for you! |
| 08:33.41 | theorbtwo | Shirik: Interesting. Maybe I should give C++ a deeper look at some point. |
| 08:34.12 | theorbtwo | ...after I learn Lua, though. |
| 08:34.25 | the-golem | haste: thanks. Your concern is heartwarming :P |
| 08:34.31 | Fisker | slaps haste around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:34.34 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 08:34.38 | Fisker | your language is the worst :( |
| 08:34.38 | theorbtwo | My camera, it turns out, is scriptable in Lua, and I've got something I want to write for it. |
| 08:35.16 | theorbtwo | Interestingly, there's really no wow addons I want to write, dispite having joined this channel to do so. |
| 08:35.18 | haste | Fisker: at least we can understand each other! |
| 08:35.29 | haste | Fisker: also, you just bought a 1000 liters of milk |
| 08:35.50 | theorbtwo | Ah: http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6.ars/10 |
| 08:37.00 | theorbtwo | I wonder why Apple went with something different then c++0x is doing. |
| 08:37.16 | Shirik | doesn't apple use objective-c? |
| 08:38.01 | haste | they do |
| 08:38.05 | theorbtwo | Shirik: Yes, but they added the functionality on the C layer, and let all the C-derived languages pick it up. |
| 08:38.13 | Shirik | strange |
| 08:38.21 | Shirik | I really wish people would stop modifying standard languages |
| 08:38.25 | Fisker | :( haste |
| 08:38.31 | Shirik | Like what microsoft did to C++.NET |
| 08:38.38 | Shirik | With the whole ^ operator and gcnew and crap |
| 08:39.23 | Fisker | But in reality you just bought a 1000 liters of milk haste |
| 08:39.32 | Shirik | was it your milk Fisker? |
| 08:39.34 | theorbtwo | Oh, great, so now there are two vendor-lock-in C++ dialects so that ^ means two different things that aren't bitwise xor? |
| 08:39.43 | Shirik | yup theorbtwo |
| 08:39.49 | Shirik | however, I have to say, Microsoft did it about 6 years ago |
| 08:39.54 | theorbtwo | rolls his eyes. |
| 08:39.55 | Shirik | so it's Apple's fault that there's a conflict |
| 08:40.25 | Shirik | Microsoft uses ^ for "reference to an object on the GC heap" |
| 08:40.42 | theorbtwo | Er, um, can't it just use & for that? |
| 08:40.58 | Fisker | i enraged btw |
| 08:41.07 | Shirik | They wanted to separate GC objects and non-GC objects |
| 08:41.10 | Fisker | the SSD i wanted to buy i just went up 20% here |
| 08:41.16 | Fisker | i hate you haste |
| 08:41.17 | theorbtwo | That is, shouldn't the compiler be smart enough to know if an object is on the GC heap, so I don't have to? |
| 08:41.29 | Shirik | I'm not sure if that's possible |
| 08:41.43 | Shirik | void Foo(Bar& bar) |
| 08:41.52 | Shirik | how do I know if bar is a managed or unmanaged object? |
| 08:42.09 | Shirik | This is important to know because we need to know things like "can I take the address of it?" |
| 08:42.16 | theorbtwo | Because the type Bar is either managed or unmanaged? |
| 08:42.38 | Shirik | hm, yeah I guess you can't mix managed and unmanaged of the same type |
| 08:42.49 | Shirik | I don't use .NET enough to think about these things :P |
| 08:43.04 | theorbtwo | Neither do I, that's why I was asking you. :) |
| 08:44.21 | Shirik | ah here theorbtwo |
| 08:44.24 | Shirik | what about |
| 08:44.31 | Shirik | void Foo(int^ bar) |
| 08:44.37 | Shirik | vs void Foo(int& bar) |
| 08:44.46 | Elkano | hmmm... HoN vs LoL... |
| 08:44.48 | tem | lol @ trade chat on my server |
| 08:44.55 | Shirik | that would be indistinguishable |
| 08:44.59 | tem | guy 1: WTS [Fury of the Five Flights] |
| 08:45.11 | Fisker | why so lol? |
| 08:45.16 | tem | guy 2: WTB [Fury of the Five Flights] but the 6 flight version |
| 08:45.30 | Shirik | wtf? |
| 08:45.56 | Fisker | i don't get it |
| 08:46.28 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 08:46.47 | theorbtwo | Yes. The way perl fixes that is, more or less, by not having unmanaged types. C++.NET could fix it by just making them somewhat harder -- requring a function to get the address of the managed thingy, that also marks it as unmoveable... I guess. |
| 08:46.58 | theorbtwo | Again, backcompat puts you between a rock and a hard place. |
| 08:49.13 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@124.205.157.51) |
| 08:49.49 | theorbtwo | It does look like you can disambugate apple's ^ from microsoft's ^, though. |
| 08:50.42 | theorbtwo | apple's ^ needs a pair of parens after it, whereas microsoft's can't have one... if I'm working through the implications properly, which I may well not be. |
| 08:52.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-056-241-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:59.38 | Shirik | LAST 9 DAYS! UP TO 70% OFF! |
| 09:00.19 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLon (i=nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
| 09:05.20 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@78.251.30.37) |
| 09:08.22 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:08.30 | Fisker | do you think you can stop me Shirik ? |
| 09:10.31 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLon (i=nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
| 09:11.26 | Shirik | Fisker: Well, it's last 9 days |
| 09:13.27 | Fisker | you just ordered a thousand liters of milk |
| 09:14.13 | Shirik | where does the milk come from |
| 09:14.21 | Fisker | the cow |
| 09:14.22 | Fisker | i.e. your mom |
| 09:14.24 | Fisker | oh snap |
| 09:16.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@wpa-195.kthopen.kth.se) |
| 09:16.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 09:16.52 | Cide- | hi |
| 09:17.13 | Shirik | hi Cide |
| 09:20.08 | Shirik | it's ok Cide |
| 09:20.16 | Shirik | you don't have to talk to me |
| 09:20.34 | Cide- | oh cool |
| 09:20.39 | Cide- | hi Shirik |
| 09:21.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125-239-28-214.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:21.17 | Adys | cide <3 |
| 09:22.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0134.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 09:24.12 | Cide- | hi Adys |
| 09:26.24 | Fisker | time to take out my problems on everyone else |
| 09:27.05 | Cide- | see Shirik, you're the one not talking to me |
| 09:27.13 | Shirik | hi Cide |
| 09:27.16 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:30.31 | *** join/#wowuidev art3mis (n=art3mis@lethargic.gothi.ca) |
| 09:31.12 | Cide- | how are you? |
| 09:32.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Dezzimal (n=Dezzimal@207-118-129-158.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 09:34.41 | *** part/#wowuidev art3mis (n=art3mis@WoWUIDev/WoWI/HKUI/art3mis) |
| 09:42.05 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFE403.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:42.35 | Cide- | I should stop committing broken code really |
| 09:45.07 | tem | working code is overrated |
| 09:45.36 | Cide- | this is true |
| 09:48.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-056-241-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:49.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124-170-123-52.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:01.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=Kazie@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 10:11.42 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-7f7be155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 10:12.42 | *** join/#wowuidev freameup (n=caminid@92.83.131.124) |
| 10:13.29 | freameup | Hello all. Do you guys know if theres any function do extract the factionID not the faction name? |
| 10:14.30 | jnwhiteh | ~xmlvalidate |
| 10:14.32 | jnwhiteh | Someone here wrote a simple web app to validate an XML file against the WoW schema |
| 10:14.34 | jnwhiteh | anyone know where it is, or who wrote it? |
| 10:16.14 | Elkano | you didn't? would be sth for your bookpage |
| 10:16.57 | freameup | Is their any function to display current faction ID's, instead of the faction names? |
| 10:17.58 | jnwhiteh | I'd know if I'd written it |
| 10:17.59 | jnwhiteh | but I didn't. |
| 10:19.08 | Elkano | freameup, if there was I wouldn't have written it :( |
| 10:19.35 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:19.48 | jnwhiteh | lol |
| 10:20.48 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:23.42 | freameup | This is dumb, you get faction names, but can't get factionID's? |
| 10:25.08 | freameup | function getFactionInfo() cant display ID? :|||:|:|:| |
| 10:25.56 | Wobin | http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__XCWUd8FFjQ/SqZektNKcFI/AAAAAAAAHzI/QVBwCxvfJzc/s1600-h/PowerGlove.jpg |
| 10:29.27 | jnwhiteh | !api Faction |
| 10:29.27 | lua_bot | Found 20 possible matches for 'Faction'. Please be more specific |
| 10:29.43 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:29.50 | Dagmar | !api factionid |
| 10:29.51 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'factionid'. |
| 10:29.55 | Dagmar | Ah well |
| 10:29.55 | jnwhiteh | freameup: What do you mean.. |
| 10:29.59 | jnwhiteh | a faction does not have an ID |
| 10:30.09 | jnwhiteh | in WoW |
| 10:30.21 | jnwhiteh | It has an index, but that's different for every character |
| 10:31.17 | jnwhiteh | Are you referring to the wowhead faction ids (http://www.wowhead.com/?faction=890). If so, no there is no way to obtain that information in-game. |
| 10:31.53 | jnwhiteh | And I'm not sure there's a compelling reason for them to do so |
| 10:32.15 | mikma | lae lae |
| 10:32.17 | A-KO | I assume the factions aren't localized? |
| 10:32.41 | jnwhiteh | A-KO: they are localized |
| 10:32.46 | jnwhiteh | as far as I am aware |
| 10:33.03 | A-KO | oh |
| 10:33.05 | jnwhiteh | but i can't launch my deDE client to check |
| 10:33.19 | mikma | wobin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYDuy7wM8Gk |
| 10:33.37 | freameup | Faction doesnt have ID's ? |
| 10:33.46 | A-KO | no freameup |
| 10:33.50 | freameup | They do have, type the name of a faction in wow head. |
| 10:33.56 | freameup | See they have. |
| 10:33.57 | jnwhiteh | freameup: that's not in WoW |
| 10:34.00 | A-KO | did you not just read what he said? |
| 10:34.01 | jnwhiteh | there is no notion of a faction id in WoW |
| 10:34.06 | jnwhiteh | do I just type for my health :P |
| 10:34.13 | freameup | How about repID? |
| 10:34.18 | jnwhiteh | nope |
| 10:34.21 | jnwhiteh | you can get spell ids |
| 10:34.22 | jnwhiteh | quest ids |
| 10:34.23 | jnwhiteh | item ids |
| 10:34.25 | jnwhiteh | and that's it. |
| 10:34.28 | jnwhiteh | and getting those was a bit of a fight. |
| 10:34.36 | jnwhiteh | but it was necessary to expose them |
| 10:35.18 | freameup | I understand... |
| 10:35.23 | freameup | Thank you. |
| 10:35.40 | jnwhiteh | you're welcome |
| 10:36.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-056-241-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:36.45 | mikma | freameup: still coding for the private server? |
| 10:37.04 | jnwhiteh | >< |
| 10:37.04 | A-KO | lol |
| 10:37.17 | jnwhiteh | Why in the hell are all the private server douches coming out lately =/ |
| 10:37.33 | A-KO | because they think they're playing wow :P and legitimate enough to do it |
| 10:38.12 | jnwhiteh | but there's just so many of them now. |
| 10:38.35 | jnwhiteh | freameup: its not mean, we would have figured it out in very little time anyway. |
| 10:39.32 | jnwhiteh | *sigh* |
| 10:39.47 | jnwhiteh | and they always cause a netsplit when they get busted :P |
| 10:39.47 | A-KO | oh he's still here :P |
| 10:39.58 | jnwhiteh | I know, I'm just kidding. |
| 10:40.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Freek (i=Freek@phobos.znchosting.com) |
| 10:40.04 | freameup | You don't need to be mean guys... |
| 10:40.10 | jnwhiteh | we're not, actually |
| 10:40.13 | jnwhiteh | but we're not going to help you |
| 10:40.15 | freameup | My mom and I play on the server :| |
| 10:40.22 | jnwhiteh | okay, that's great for you and your mom |
| 10:40.25 | freameup | And 2 neighbours :| |
| 10:40.26 | jnwhiteh | but you're wasting our time by asking us for help |
| 10:40.33 | freameup | I'm not public or something. |
| 10:40.39 | jnwhiteh | it really doesn't matter to us |
| 10:40.48 | jnwhiteh | you could pay your subscription like the rest of us, and be a help to the community |
| 10:40.52 | jnwhiteh | rather than a hinderance |
| 10:41.06 | mikma | ~jnwhiteh++ |
| 10:41.23 | jnwhiteh | I'm not being a dick.. I'm being serious |
| 10:41.36 | jnwhiteh | By being a member that only works on a private server, you don't contribute to the overall addon community at all |
| 10:41.43 | jnwhiteh | and you ask for help from us, which is just a waste of our time |
| 10:41.57 | jnwhiteh | At least new authors who play the game have a remote chance of releasing an addon. |
| 10:42.23 | A-KO | private servers aren't even the 'game' also |
| 10:42.31 | A-KO | they're nothing remotely close to what the game actually is like |
| 10:42.49 | jnwhiteh | which is why most of us don't "get" it |
| 10:42.50 | jnwhiteh | I suspect. |
| 10:43.05 | A-KO | just because you can have an empty shell of a server + a database of where mobs are from wowhead (and trust me, a vast majority of the time they're wrong), doesn't mean you're playing WoW |
| 10:43.15 | Arrowmaster | "I'm the Doctor and you're in the biggest library in the universe..... look me up." I fucking love that line |
| 10:43.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 10:43.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (n=Mikk@78-73-111-137-no162.tbcn.telia.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:44.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Corrodias (i=no@adsl-75-17-204-12.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:44.20 | A-KO | so friend of mine I think fried her new laptop |
| 10:44.22 | A-KO | ..... |
| 10:44.25 | Arrowmaster | yes ive been rewatching doctor who |
| 10:44.26 | A-KO | by trying to put ram into it |
| 10:45.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-056-241-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:46.01 | A-KO | guess I shouldn't have told her ram upgrades are easy |
| 10:46.02 | A-KO | :/ |
| 10:46.55 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 10:46.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
| 10:50.37 | Adys | http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/09/typical-inbox-morning/ |
| 10:50.41 | Adys | rofl |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLon (i=nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.hjnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Aquavett@74-137-176-182.dhcp.insightbb.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Cruciformer (n=jkj@kahluamod.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev nichdu (n=nichdu@nerdcraft.eu) |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev jaxdahl (i=foobar@cpe-70-112-126-227.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev [Ammo] (n=wouter@WoWUIDev/WowAce/ammo) |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Sentri (n=sentri@tango-179.srv.hosting.fi) |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev tlund (i=tlund@nxs.se) |
| 10:50.41 | *** join/#wowuidev copystring (i=11794cop@o0o.o0o.o0o.o88-51-51-6o9.co.uk) |
| 10:50.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (i=Cide@wpa-195.kthopen.kth.se) |
| 10:50.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 10:50.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-056-241-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:55.42 | Fisker | think i'll go complain on the forums that the servers got up early |
| 11:04.08 | Zeksie | they didn't.. |
| 11:09.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@88.193.199.46) |
| 11:11.07 | Fisker | fail Adys |
| 11:11.18 | Fisker | they did in regards to the new ETA Zeksie |
| 11:13.52 | Adys | [13:44:50] <Arrowmaster> yes ive been rewatching doctor who |
| 11:13.53 | Adys | me too |
| 11:13.55 | Adys | lets have sex |
| 11:14.30 | Fisker | me three then! |
| 11:15.19 | mikma | Thoraq's Death Coil hits Mikma for 4118 Shadow.(Critical) |
| 11:15.19 | mikma | sure, right |
| 11:15.19 | mikma | 4118 through 677 resilience |
| 11:15.19 | Fisker | chaos bolt for eleventy billion k right? |
| 11:15.19 | Fisker | mikma dies. |
| 11:15.39 | Fisker | Here's my fight against warlocks |
| 11:15.46 | Fisker | Something that puts me out of control of my character |
| 11:15.50 | Fisker | immolate |
| 11:15.51 | Fisker | chaos bolt |
| 11:15.55 | Fisker | Fiskerdin dies. |
| 11:15.58 | mikma | wrong class asshole :) |
| 11:16.00 | Fisker | :( |
| 11:16.09 | mikma | that was death knight xD |
| 11:16.15 | Fisker | aww |
| 11:16.23 | Fisker | death knights are isimode for paladins :P |
| 11:16.36 | mikma | paladins are easymode for death knights |
| 11:16.53 | Fisker | my anger level rises |
| 11:17.00 | mikma | i love going 1vs1 with paladin in bg's. 95% i win ^^ |
| 11:17.10 | mikma | the rest 5%, he gets help |
| 11:31.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@ip503d59c0.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:33.54 | Fisker | btw mikma |
| 11:33.57 | Fisker | my ssd :( |
| 11:35.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 11:37.47 | mikma | your ssd |
| 11:41.01 | Kalroth | your ssd brings all the boys to the yard, they say it is better than mine |
| 11:41.42 | mikma | :D |
| 11:41.45 | mikma | ~kalroth++ |
| 11:44.47 | Fisker | :O |
| 11:47.41 | Cruciformer | 'lo all |
| 11:49.42 | Cruciformer | Q: If I position a frame using SetPoint ("TOPLEFT", ...) and SetPoint ("BOTTOMRIGHT", ...) ... why is it that frame:GetWidth() and frame:GetHeight() always return 0? |
| 11:50.05 | Cruciformer | GetWidth() and GetHeight() seem to only return values if you explicitly called SetWidth() and Setheight(), is that correct? |
| 11:53.01 | mikma | By akridas 5 hr 16 min ago (Patch 3.2.0) |
| 11:53.05 | mikma | cataclysm is here, orcs can already ride a ... worgen |
| 11:53.06 | mikma | haha |
| 11:56.28 | Mikk | Cruciformer: they'll return correct values after the next onupdate. they haven't been computed before that. |
| 11:56.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Jelly_ (n=Jelly@68-187-35-8.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 11:57.22 | Cruciformer | Mikk: shit. So if I want to use those values in calculations I have to wait for the frame to actually be drawn? |
| 11:57.42 | Mikk | correct |
| 11:57.54 | Cruciformer | makes sense, but still. Crap. |
| 11:58.01 | Cruciformer | back to the drawing board. |
| 11:59.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0134.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 12:03.07 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 12:04.10 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 12:04.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 12:09.24 | Zeksie | Cruciformer: if you anchor 2 corners they should also return values |
| 12:10.09 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 12:10.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 12:16.38 | Mikk | Zeksie: still only after an onupdate |
| 12:16.53 | Mikk | (note that he WAS anchoring both topleft and bottomright there) |
| 12:19.53 | wsoul | Hmm, each time i pick up a daily it displays the text on my screen on the right hand side |
| 12:20.34 | wsoul | i re-installed all my addons earlier and cannot tell which one is causing it |
| 12:20.38 | Mikk | yes, that's the standard blizzard quest tracker |
| 12:20.50 | wsoul | hmm |
| 12:21.30 | wsoul | automatic quest tracking |
| 12:21.33 | wsoul | right, thanks |
| 12:22.04 | mikma | http://matin.maapallo.org/kuvatuuppari/ctrlaltdel/1338/20090909.jpg |
| 12:24.47 | *** join/#wowuidev laeg (n=laeg@unaffiliated/laeg) |
| 12:24.47 | foxlit | http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php, surely? |
| 12:24.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 12:24.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:24.57 | laeg | anyone having trouble logging into a european realm? |
| 12:25.00 | laeg | can't get past authenticating |
| 12:25.09 | Lopeppeppy | Isn't Wed. EU maintenance day? |
| 12:25.21 | laeg | yeah but it's 1:30pm GMT |
| 12:25.39 | laeg | crap just rad it's til 15:30 |
| 12:25.42 | laeg | *read |
| 12:25.43 | laeg | thanks |
| 12:25.43 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah? NA maintenance was a longer window yesterday, perhaps you have a longer window today. |
| 12:25.50 | wsoul | mikk i've unchecked it yet it's still there |
| 12:25.50 | Lopeppeppy | See? *smile* |
| 12:25.53 | laeg | :D |
| 12:26.01 | laeg | but i have a date with my internet girlfriend |
| 12:26.22 | laeg | she's a draenei warrior with a spikey mace she likes to rub up and down her thigh |
| 12:26.25 | laeg | ;) |
| 12:26.30 | Lopeppeppy | She's running late too, laeg, she'll understand. |
| 12:26.38 | laeg | hehe i'm jk |
| 12:27.17 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 12:30.00 | mikma | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:30.03 | mikma | haha |
| 12:30.15 | wsoul | Hrm, I don't see it under "interface" option to disable it even |
| 12:41.19 | Mikk | laeg: i've heard from people with non-battlenet accounts that they're having login problems. again. get it converted already. |
| 12:41.51 | foxlit | Not until they have an adorable murloc for it. |
| 12:42.07 | Arrowmaster | should be a few weeks away |
| 12:42.13 | Arrowmaster | in the mail |
| 12:42.16 | krka | anyone here in EU that can authenticate? seems to be down for me |
| 12:42.34 | Lopeppeppy | krka, see above, extended maintenance for EU today |
| 12:43.02 | krka | oic |
| 12:43.13 | krka | the alert is lying to me then :/ |
| 12:43.29 | Lopeppeppy | [08:26] laeg: crap just rad it's til 15:30 |
| 12:43.46 | krka | that's only for the web maintenance though |
| 12:43.54 | krka | "Additionally we will perform web maintenance from 03:00 Paris time (CEST) until approximately 15:30 Paris time (CEST)" |
| 12:43.57 | Wobin | ahaha http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/09/08/your-guide-to-anime-costumes-you-might-not-be-familiar-with/ |
| 12:44.05 | Lopeppeppy | Whenever the web is down, the auth servers wind up hosed too. :) |
| 12:44.49 | krka | i see :/ |
| 12:45.46 | Mikk | krka: get converted to battlenet |
| 12:46.06 | Mikk | the web maint hits the old logins, not battlenet |
| 12:48.23 | Arrowmaster | oh shit |
| 12:48.47 | Arrowmaster | my routers bandwidth logs say for the last 30 days ive used 225gigs |
| 12:49.00 | Lopeppeppy | That's... quite a bit. |
| 12:49.11 | Arrowmaster | 175 down 50 up |
| 12:49.13 | *** join/#wowuidev taleden (n=atfrase@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 12:49.51 | Arrowmaster | im proud of the day i did 40gigs down |
| 12:50.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (i=Cide@p188-n239.kthopen.kth.se) |
| 12:50.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 12:51.15 | Arrowmaster | ok i should go sleep now since i have a class tonight |
| 12:51.28 | krka | Mikk: hm, perhaps i shall |
| 12:51.43 | krka | i created one battlenet account, but that was just for the SC2 beta opt in |
| 12:56.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (i=jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 12:58.15 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=10831233047&postId=108301983747&sid=1#1 |
| 12:58.17 | Fisker | hohohoohoh |
| 13:01.00 | Lopeppeppy | I hear Jabba the Hut. |
| 13:01.33 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:01.36 | Fisker | zomg krka |
| 13:01.40 | Fisker | no sc2 beta for you |
| 13:01.53 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, I get a server error from your link, what did it say? |
| 13:02.13 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@115.170.168.44) |
| 13:02.21 | Fisker | It seems amazing how little rep you get from WSG.... |
| 13:02.21 | Fisker | EG: |
| 13:02.21 | Fisker | If i wear a kirin tor tabbard in an instance and i sneeze, i gain more rep from that 1 sneeze than i would a whole 3 flag win in WSG |
| 13:02.28 | Fisker | Me: |
| 13:02.28 | Fisker | Well then i have some fantastic news for you. |
| 13:02.28 | Fisker | Since WSG was introduced Blizzard introduced a feature that doesn't require you to grind WSG rep if you don't want to. |
| 13:02.32 | Fisker | hoho |
| 13:02.56 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 13:09.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (n=Sixen@173.25.22.158) |
| 13:13.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (n=kraftman@81.170.122.196) |
| 13:35.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Zealin (n=Lucas_Bi@cm56-200-51.liwest.at) |
| 13:36.43 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-084-063-120-237.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:41.33 | *** join/#wowuidev thazzen (n=thaz@81.191.197.159) |
| 13:56.15 | alestane | At least we can presume he should be going to have a good time. |
| 13:57.24 | Lopeppeppy | Or that he wishes he were. |
| 13:59.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-236-005.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:01.33 | laeg | crap now the eu realms says login servers aren't operating at full capacity |
| 14:01.43 | laeg | even though schedueled maintenance is over |
| 14:02.45 | Lopeppeppy | Y'all have a borked. Sorry. /comfort |
| 14:04.25 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-088-076-062-068.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:04.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Saint-N (n=art3mis@WoWUIDev/WoWI/HKUI/art3mis) |
| 14:04.54 | Saint-N | hrm |
| 14:04.56 | *** join/#wowuidev nicoli_s (n=nsinkule@69.73.16.202) |
| 14:05.02 | Saint-N | is fraps still the best screen recorder? |
| 14:05.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v nicoli_s] by ChanServ |
| 14:05.33 | foxlit | For wow: a. Get a mac. b. Use built-in recording. |
| 14:05.39 | Saint-N | laugh not for wow |
| 14:05.43 | Saint-N | just in general |
| 14:05.58 | Saint-N | need a decent screen recorder(preferablly freeware) |
| 14:06.09 | Lopeppeppy | I love Adobe Captivate. I forget what freeware we used before that. |
| 14:06.30 | foxlit | I'm convinced that frap's codec messes with colors. |
| 14:06.39 | alestane | Camtasia is pretty good, although not free. |
| 14:06.40 | foxlit | s/'s/s'/ |
| 14:09.10 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202209241.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 14:09.34 | *** join/#wowuidev plazia (n=plazia@cpc2-pete9-2-0-cust672.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 14:10.14 | *** part/#wowuidev plazia (n=plazia@cpc2-pete9-2-0-cust672.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 14:11.14 | laeg | Lopeppeppy: it looks like blizz have just quit on us. you know what they called quitters in WW2? they called them french. blizz aren't french are they? :) |
| 14:12.07 | svenadh | think those gms are all somewhere near paris... |
| 14:12.28 | p3lim | EU Blizzard HQ is in paris |
| 14:12.39 | p3lim | That would make them french |
| 14:13.51 | laeg | lol |
| 14:14.01 | laeg | i think they've a centre here in ireland too |
| 14:14.04 | Lopeppeppy | Because maintenance takes longer, they've quit? |
| 14:14.07 | laeg | that would make them drunk |
| 14:14.12 | laeg | Lopeppeppy: nah i can login now |
| 14:14.13 | Lopeppeppy | I never understand all the whining on maintenance day. I really don't |
| 14:14.22 | Ackis | Cruciformer: http://www.curse.com/forums/t/118328.aspx |
| 14:14.29 | laeg | i has the whine flu :) |
| 14:14.37 | foxlit | Peppy: QQ I CANNOT FARM FURBOLG REP WHILE SERVERS ARE DOWN. |
| 14:14.44 | Lopeppeppy | Seriously. |
| 14:14.49 | Lopeppeppy | Whine flu should be fatal, IMO |
| 14:14.55 | laeg | :( |
| 14:15.03 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: you take someones addiction away and they'll QQ, it's not about common sense, it's about addiction |
| 14:15.36 | Lopeppeppy | Maybe it's the addiction I don't get. If you can't walk away, it's not healthy, so why do it? |
| 14:15.52 | Ackis | because you're addicted and you can't |
| 14:16.31 | Lopeppeppy | Get help. |
| 14:16.40 | foxlit | Electroshock help. |
| 14:17.13 | Lopeppeppy | Like I said, I don't understand it. |
| 14:17.40 | foxlit | Then you must do what any sensible scientist would do. |
| 14:18.04 | Lopeppeppy | I play. I'm just not addicted. |
| 14:18.50 | foxlit | I'm out of soundbites. |
| 14:18.52 | foxlit | Sorry :( |
| 14:19.15 | Lopeppeppy | *kiss kiss* |
| 14:29.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (n=WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 14:32.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-195-111.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 14:32.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:38.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (n=Sesshu@ip-153-17.travedsl.de) |
| 14:41.54 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 14:41.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 14:42.56 | Ackis | so apparently carbonite has anti-private server code? |
| 14:43.57 | alestane | ...shucks? |
| 14:44.10 | Ackis | oh I'm not complaining... yet! |
| 14:44.16 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@did75-14-82-236-19-233.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:44.16 | Ackis | I like the concept |
| 14:44.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:44.40 | Ackis | alas can't read their code :P |
| 14:44.47 | Ackis | (there's my complaint! :P) |
| 14:45.52 | Ackis | are the zh servers up and running and are they on 3.2? |
| 14:47.28 | Lopeppeppy | If you can't read it, is it complex, or obfuscated? There's a difference. |
| 14:47.58 | |Jelly| | It's obfuscated! Run to Blizzard! :P |
| 14:48.41 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: I think they have a line that is a bazillion characters :P |
| 14:49.28 | alestane | These days, rather than being delibrately encrypted, Carbonite is merely compressed into unreadability. |
| 14:49.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 14:49.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 14:50.11 | zenzelezz | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/09/08/funny-pictures-request-cause-its-stupid/ |
| 14:50.14 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/124905 |
| 14:50.19 | foxlit | alestane: is there really a difference, considering you could just hook loadstring and get anything? :) |
| 14:51.39 | alestane | You could, yes, although it was something of a hassle. |
| 14:52.50 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/09/09/funny-pictures-just-doing-my-part/ |
| 14:56.00 | Seerah | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/09/07/funny-pictures-you-dont-hav-wun/ |
| 14:57.48 | alestane | "Itâs 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of dog treats, your eyes glow in the dark and weâre not wearing collars. Hit it." |
| 14:57.48 | Lopeppeppy | That stuff is sexy, Ackis |
| 14:58.29 | Seerah | alestane: liked that one, too :) |
| 14:59.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (i=Unknown@c-98-245-39-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:00.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 15:00.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 15:02.48 | devZero | is anyone aware of a programmatic method for determining if an item is "Heroic" without reading the tooltip? |
| 15:03.29 | zenzelezz | heroic? |
| 15:04.38 | devZero | aye, heroic |
| 15:04.38 | devZero | http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/48620/liadrins-legplates-of-triumph/ |
| 15:05.05 | foxlit | item level. mwha. |
| 15:05.11 | Fisker | naw foxlit |
| 15:05.12 | Fisker | nawnawnaw |
| 15:05.37 | devZero | I thought about that... but as new items come out with higher item levels, or if 258 becomes a standard item level, it becomes flawed |
| 15:06.23 | foxlit | Why would you care about whether an item is heroic, anyway? |
| 15:06.35 | Fisker | it's already flawed as far as i know |
| 15:06.42 | Fisker | heroic 10-man is ilevel 245 i believe |
| 15:07.03 | Seerah | foxlit: looks like there's a different version for non-heroic: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/48623/liadrins-legplates-of-triumph/ |
| 15:08.06 | devZero | I'm working on a small item database. |
| 15:08.36 | devZero | I really dislike reading tooltips... The same as I dislike scraping web pages. |
| 15:09.07 | devZero | was just curious if there was a flag or something that was set, but I guess I'll google some more. |
| 15:11.51 | Seerah | devZero: since the word Heroic will always appear on line 2 or 3 (3 if it's a compare tooltip and you have it "currently equipped") then you could just check to see if GameTooltipTextLeft2 or GameTooltipTextLeft3 == "Heroic". But it would also need to be localized to work that way |
| 15:12.32 | devZero | Seerah: thanks for the info, I've been aware of how to grab it that way. Was just looking for another option :) |
| 15:12.39 | devZero | ...if one exists |
| 15:13.24 | Seerah | unless you want to keep a database of itemIDs |
| 15:13.47 | Seerah | regular legplates are 48623 while heroic are 48620 |
| 15:14.29 | devZero | right right... |
| 15:14.34 | devZero | well. I guess tooltip it is :/ |
| 15:14.36 | devZero | thanks |
| 15:17.23 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D989.flatrate.dk) |
| 15:22.29 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@76.212.99.109) |
| 15:28.15 | Seerah | Happy 9-9-09 btw, folks! |
| 15:28.34 | alestane | And yet there's no Final Fantasy game being released. |
| 15:28.38 | nicoli_s | its the upside down devil's day! |
| 15:28.55 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@80.162.217.137) |
| 15:29.10 | nicoli_s | i remember being a cashier and people would freak out if their total reached 6.66 |
| 15:29.12 | Seerah | what was that movie where they look at the kids head upside down and say " nah, it says 999 - he's okay"? |
| 15:30.27 | _rane | this may sound stupid but is there some kind of addon skeleton with typically used libraries (like WowAce?) that you could use when starting development of a new addon? |
| 15:30.45 | Seerah | no |
| 15:31.15 | Seerah | first, WowAce is a website, not libraries, and second, libraries aren't needed to create a simple addon |
| 15:31.34 | Seerah | (or even a not-simple one) |
| 15:34.51 | _rane | ... *sigh* |
| 15:35.25 | devZero | The problem with people is that they assume that we're more than just animals. That somehow we influence the universe in ways that bring on things such as armageddon, and the end of days... When it comes down to it, we're mammals. Nothing more, nothing less. |
| 15:35.31 | devZero | numbers are number :P |
| 15:35.32 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@85.225.123.127) |
| 15:35.56 | Cide- | _rane: if you're starting off developing addons, don't use a library |
| 15:36.02 | Cide- | period. |
| 15:36.12 | _rane | I'm not exactly starting |
| 15:36.12 | devZero | I had that conversation with my mother once... She's extremely religious. |
| 15:36.44 | Cide- | devZero: except we have technology |
| 15:36.45 | Seerah | _rane: well, once you have a specific question, we can stop guessing what you're up to and give specific answers ;) |
| 15:36.56 | Mikk | _rane: well there's the example ace3 addon |
| 15:37.24 | Cide- | you can't say "well, we have this nuke that can blast a country or three to pieces, but since we're just mammals we can't blow up the earth." |
| 15:37.34 | devZero | Cide-: technology doesn't make us magially better than other mammals. Other creatures have "technology" too. It's just more primitive. |
| 15:38.02 | devZero | Cide-: nuclear armageddon is not the same thing as the "666" mark of the beast armageddon |
| 15:38.07 | devZero | http://somethingabsurd.net/images/stories/59192cabe89cbe25f91c8cf8bfb77b82.jpg |
| 15:38.10 | Mikk | _rane: it's in the wowace forums iirc |
| 15:38.13 | Mikk | in a sticky |
| 15:38.49 | Cide- | wtf |
| 15:38.56 | Mikk | devZero: lmao |
| 15:39.09 | devZero | "Free dog souls with conversion" |
| 15:39.13 | Cide- | devZero: well humans (or any other mammal) can't bring forth something that doesn't exist |
| 15:39.33 | Mikk | "all rocks go to heaven" ftw |
| 15:39.37 | Cide- | that much is obvious |
| 15:39.48 | Seerah | lol |
| 15:40.17 | devZero | Cide-: my point was humans have delusions of grandeur that leads them to beleive they're more important than they really are. |
| 15:40.23 | devZero | that was all |
| 15:40.24 | devZero | :) |
| 15:40.44 | kdtresh | so would it be arrogant to think that humans could cause something like global warming? |
| 15:40.57 | kdtresh | after all, we are just mammals, with a bit of technology |
| 15:40.59 | Lopeppeppy | tsk tsk |
| 15:41.13 | Lopeppeppy | don't take the argument too far. our actions have consequences. |
| 15:41.32 | kdtresh | it's the scale of those consequences that isn't determined, though |
| 15:41.45 | devZero | no, our actions can very well bring on the end of this world... But to think that the entire universe was created for the sole purpose of us, and that we're the only ones in it, and that it will all end ultimately because of us ( Rapture, Higher Being. etc... ) is a joke |
| 15:42.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 15:42.14 | Wobin | devZero: I do like the enterprising atheists who are making money off those that believe the Rapture will leave their pet stranded |
| 15:42.15 | devZero | anyhow, this could go on forever... sorry, this could have been better discussed in a more appropriate setting. |
| 15:42.31 | kdtresh | i'd say something that brings comfort to millions of people shouldn't be considered a joke |
| 15:42.43 | kdtresh | heck, billions |
| 15:43.02 | Wobin | laughing is bad? |
| 15:43.11 | devZero | I respect those with religious preferences... I think the close mindedness of it is a joke |
| 15:43.39 | kdtresh | the absence of proof is not the proof of absence |
| 15:43.52 | kdtresh | but you're right, this isn't really the proper setting, lol |
| 15:44.20 | devZero | kdtresh: on that logic, the smurfs are real. |
| 15:44.41 | Wobin | la la la la-la-la |
| 15:44.42 | kdtresh | i didn't say anything was or was not real |
| 15:44.42 | devZero | anyhow, sorry again... |
| 15:44.44 | devZero | :P |
| 15:44.53 | Wobin | (and now you have the smurf song stuck in your head) |
| 15:44.56 | Wobin | (muhahaha) |
| 15:45.16 | devZero | no, I have the hole in the bottom of the sea song in my head |
| 15:45.42 | devZero | "There's a tube in the throat of the elderly man, in the hospital bed, on the frog, on the log, in the hole of the bottom of the sea!" |
| 15:46.08 | kdtresh | and the green grass grows all around, all around? |
| 15:47.01 | kdtresh | apparently not |
| 15:48.47 | devZero | http://www.trilulilu.ro/Ana/0dbd5ef25b63ca |
| 15:48.56 | kdtresh | sweet, finally no oculus for the daily |
| 15:49.19 | devZero | ugh... I've not run occulus for at least 7 months |
| 15:50.11 | kdtresh | me either, lol |
| 15:50.16 | kdtresh | i'm boycotting it |
| 15:50.37 | Saint-N | thatll show em |
| 15:50.48 | kdtresh | they'll crack at some point |
| 15:50.51 | kdtresh | they gotta |
| 15:51.18 | Saint-N | http://lightspeedpool.com <-- free football pool with decent prizes.. go play di di mau! |
| 15:53.20 | devZero | I'm still bummed that I lost my Crusader title when I switched factions :/ |
| 15:53.34 | devZero | I know it was in the FAQ, but I've lost all motivation to regain it. |
| 15:54.35 | tlund | it was? when i quickly read it earlier it seemed like everything like that would be converted? |
| 15:54.51 | devZero | nah, it states every _except_ the tourney stuff |
| 15:54.56 | tlund | ok :/ |
| 15:55.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:55.46 | devZero | the move was well worth it for me... I just miss my title. I'm just glad they didn't take my Argetn Hippogryph |
| 15:55.49 | foxlit | oh? |
| 15:55.50 | devZero | Argent* |
| 15:56.04 | foxlit | But why would you lose it? |
| 15:56.31 | Fisker | anyone knows if it's possible to identify if an enviroment is wine or win32? |
| 15:56.45 | foxlit | Ah, token quest handins. Sucks. |
| 15:56.47 | devZero | **Please note that all achievements relating to the Argent Tournament will be reset.** |
| 15:56.53 | devZero | http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&tag=FCFAQ |
| 15:57.13 | kdtresh | http://www.thetresh.net/oc1.png |
| 15:57.37 | devZero | More specifically: **Please note that all titles relating to the Argent Tournament will be reset.** |
| 15:57.54 | kdtresh | can you do the quests again for the new faction, or are you just out? |
| 15:58.01 | devZero | You can re-do them |
| 15:58.05 | devZero | from the very start |
| 15:58.18 | Lunessa | So it should only take 2-3 weeks to get Crusader again. |
| 15:58.30 | devZero | yes, but as I said before. I just lost the motivation |
| 15:58.54 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:59.03 | foxlit | 5 days / faction * 5 factions == ouch. |
| 15:59.10 | kdtresh | i haven't had the motivation to do it the first time, lol |
| 15:59.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Zealin (n=Lucas_Bi@cm56-200-51.liwest.at) |
| 15:59.18 | devZero | I assume that I'll eventually do it again. Just kinda bummed me out. I didn't read the FAQ before I transferred |
| 15:59.48 | kdtresh | i'm champ with two, and i've stalled out |
| 16:00.06 | devZero | Once you get to the crusader dailies, you get a bit of variety |
| 16:00.47 | kdtresh | i've never really been able to do more than a couple dailies a day for an extended period of time |
| 16:01.04 | devZero | same, but I wanted the hippogryph |
| 16:01.12 | kdtresh | i wanted the tank sword |
| 16:01.19 | devZero | I usually just do the JC, and Fishing dailies |
| 16:01.32 | kdtresh | usually i do cooking and fishing |
| 16:01.41 | kdtresh | unless they're runaround ones |
| 16:01.56 | kdtresh | i like the cooking ones that stay in dalaran, i'm lazy |
| 16:02.08 | kdtresh | can't be bothered to go looking for carrots |
| 16:03.03 | devZero | I need to start raiding again. I've not raided since before the first Ulduar nerf. |
| 16:04.00 | devZero | and ... I'm tired of waiting for my Grunty :P |
| 16:04.15 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D989.flatrate.dk) |
| 16:05.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 16:05.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Vangual (n=bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual) |
| 16:07.06 | Lunessa | <3 my Grunty. |
| 16:07.31 | Fisker | slaps Lunessa around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:07.35 | Lunessa | I just need to find someone who has Murky and would be willing to slide him my way so I can have the complete set. |
| 16:07.55 | Fisker | you have a lurky? |
| 16:08.07 | Lunessa | Lurky was EU only, no? |
| 16:08.08 | devZero | Next year, I'm asking the boss to send me to Blizzcon :P |
| 16:08.14 | Fisker | yeah Lunessa |
| 16:08.18 | Fisker | but then it's not the complete set :3 |
| 16:08.27 | Lunessa | Complete US set - fucker. |
| 16:08.33 | Fisker | blizzard fucked up my trolling |
| 16:08.56 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/f/lower-city/ |
| 16:08.58 | Adys | yay for factions |
| 16:09.34 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@WoWUIDev/Cosmos/AnduinLothar) |
| 16:09.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 16:17.30 | devZero | Work can be so unmotivating at times. |
| 16:17.36 | devZero | even if it is wow related :/ |
| 16:18.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 16:22.00 | Lunessa | Work, it's what's for killing your soul. |
| 16:22.08 | Lopeppeppy | Tell me about it. |
| 16:22.48 | *** join/#wowuidev netcurse (n=hthieblo@dsl092-049-237.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:23.51 | Ackis | Fisker killed my soul. So did netcurse. |
| 16:24.07 | devZero | Well, the code I work through isn't exactly condusive to being productive. |
| 16:24.27 | devZero | I'm re-writing the majority of it though |
| 16:24.36 | A-KO | eh, I'm productive at work as long as they keep giving me new toys to play with |
| 16:24.45 | A-KO | :) |
| 16:25.16 | nicoli_s | but not me right ackis? |
| 16:25.16 | devZero | I get no toys... I do get to write off my wow accounts though :P |
| 16:25.28 | nicoli_s | where do you work where you can do that devzero? |
| 16:25.30 | Ackis | never you NiLon |
| 16:25.32 | Ackis | bah |
| 16:25.34 | Ackis | nicoli_s: |
| 16:25.36 | Ackis | asdffsdasdfafsda |
| 16:25.50 | nicoli_s | you tried ackis, thats all that matters :) |
| 16:26.27 | Ackis | I failed |
| 16:26.40 | A-KO | devZero: haha. I get neat toys :P so far I've had 3 different flavors of firewalls and a few different client management solutions for inventory/asset management, software deployment, etc. |
| 16:27.26 | devZero | well, I guess you could consider my "toys" being a new challenge every day... Although, I don't consider a lack of comments, and non descriptive single variables much fun :P |
| 16:27.39 | devZero | single char variables I mean |
| 16:28.18 | nicoli_s | DevZero: who do you work for? |
| 16:28.26 | devZero | Thott |
| 16:28.29 | nicoli_s | ahhh |
| 16:28.32 | nicoli_s | i used to too :P |
| 16:28.38 | devZero | orly? |
| 16:28.41 | nicoli_s | yep |
| 16:28.52 | nicoli_s | he still using perl? |
| 16:29.00 | devZero | indeed |
| 16:29.20 | nicoli_s | man he was a brutal task master to me, id turn something in, then hed tell me to cut down the number of lines in half :P |
| 16:29.24 | nicoli_s | but i was a total noob back then |
| 16:29.25 | devZero | I've implemented a ton of changes, but it's like a never eveding cycle |
| 16:29.37 | devZero | ending* |
| 16:29.40 | nicoli_s | yah, thats how working on DB sites is, the work is never done |
| 16:30.24 | devZero | Yeah, he hired me for webdev, and then promptly put me on the collector... Now, I've rewritten the cosmos patcher, done web work, re-writing the collector. |
| 16:30.27 | nicoli_s | thott was a cool guy though, would have enjoyed staying with him longer, but i got moved to ogaming's(who owned thott at the time) eq2 and ffxi databases |
| 16:31.01 | devZero | He's a nice guy for sure. |
| 16:31.20 | nicoli_s | i doubt any of my code is still in there though, i was hired on to show thott about how to read in dbcs and wdbs |
| 16:31.23 | devZero | Been working for him for about a year now. |
| 16:31.27 | nicoli_s | since before that he got spell data from lua :P |
| 16:31.39 | devZero | Yeah, I'm minimizing the lua |
| 16:31.54 | devZero | So much of it is outdated |
| 16:32.02 | nicoli_s | fun fun, im glad i havent had to deal with any lua work lately |
| 16:32.11 | nicoli_s | i got so tired of it working on war and rom |
| 16:33.14 | devZero | It's okay, I mostly get frusterated with the guess work. IMO you shouldn't be guessing in programming. |
| 16:34.43 | nicoli_s | i hear that, but most games dont really plan for the level of data mining we need when they are designing lua, so theres always hacks and what ifs |
| 16:34.46 | devZero | Overall I'd say I love my job, but there's just things here and there that drive me crazy :P |
| 16:34.57 | nicoli_s | heh, sounds 100% like here at curse |
| 16:36.21 | kdtresh | hmmm |
| 16:36.23 | devZero | Working with Thott has taught me a lot... I'd never done c++, obj-c, or Lua before working with him. |
| 16:36.28 | kdtresh | i like my job too |
| 16:36.33 | kdtresh | not wow-related, but i can play wow, lol |
| 16:36.48 | kdtresh | though i don't get to write off the bills |
| 16:37.16 | nicoli_s | obj-c? what are you working with that for? a mac version of the cosmos patcher? |
| 16:37.38 | devZero | I've got a ton of changes coming to thottbot. Though, I can't legally discuss any of them :P |
| 16:37.51 | nicoli_s | yah i know how that is |
| 16:37.51 | devZero | nicoli_s: it's already done. Thott just hasn't put it up on the site yet |
| 16:37.54 | nicoli_s | ahh |
| 16:38.26 | devZero | I was trying to pick up some beta testers for it, but the number of people I know in game is minimal. |
| 16:38.42 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (n=smcn@c-76-23-41-122.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:39.16 | devZero | I tell you what... Trying to convert all the MFC was a pita |
| 16:39.39 | nicoli_s | i can imagine |
| 16:39.51 | nicoli_s | im always hearing obj-c horror stories from the mac curse client dev |
| 16:39.51 | devZero | great learning experience though |
| 16:40.05 | devZero | I liked it so much more than c++ itself |
| 16:40.20 | devZero | then again, I'm sure they use .net for the windows version |
| 16:40.23 | nicoli_s | yah |
| 16:40.42 | nicoli_s | im so glad to finally have a language i can do all my web and client dev in |
| 16:40.46 | nicoli_s | good ol .net |
| 16:40.53 | devZero | Obj-C to me was pretty clear, and easy to understand. |
| 16:41.08 | devZero | <3 Interface Builder |
| 16:41.44 | nicoli_s | the number one complaint i've heard is how they add cool new coding functions in 10.5 and 10.6 that you cant use if you want to support 10.4 |
| 16:43.14 | foxlit | It's a platform philosophy |
| 16:43.29 | foxlit | With their upgrade percentages, you do not really have to support much more than the last version. |
| 16:46.00 | devZero | what foxlit said |
| 16:46.41 | devZero | And honestly, You have to stop supporting older versions at some point. It's unfortunate, but it's true. |
| 16:47.49 | Lopeppeppy | You'd think they'd stop supporting 9, but at least have all versions of 10 be compatible... |
| 16:48.24 | alestane | Sadly for Microsoft, they stand to offend a much larger number of people whenever they stop supporting something. |
| 16:48.54 | devZero | I'm somewhat biased though http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1481743/office.jpg |
| 16:48.57 | devZero | :) |
| 16:49.14 | devZero | just built that new setup not too long ago |
| 16:49.25 | kdtresh | egad |
| 16:51.00 | Lunessa | It was 45 years ago today, Sgt. Pepper's Band began to play. |
| 16:53.30 | AnduinLothar | hmm, that setup looks fun, but it's still not http://i28.tinypic.com/262umur.jpg |
| 16:53.57 | industrial | is that half a monitor? |
| 16:54.00 | devZero | what is that on the side? |
| 16:54.11 | AnduinLothar | a 20" rotated. |
| 16:54.12 | kdtresh | angled? |
| 16:54.15 | devZero | nice |
| 16:55.12 | kdtresh | i've got a 24" flanked by two 19's here at work |
| 16:55.17 | devZero | the image I posted doesn't show it, but on the shelf above the books, I've got a mac mini, and a Drobo running as well. <3 my Drobo. |
| 16:56.04 | devZero | I've never seen a rotated lcd like that... I like it |
| 16:56.18 | AnduinLothar | for comparison: my desk is 9' long and 2.5' deep |
| 16:57.04 | devZero | heh, I built my desk to 7' x 8' L shaped long.. 2' deep, and about 6' high |
| 16:57.26 | devZero | it ended up being a bit more massive then I realized when I specced it |
| 16:57.35 | AnduinLothar | the 20" rotated is ideal for aim, irc, web browsing or coding while i do something fullscreen on the 30" |
| 16:57.36 | devZero | it kinda dominates the entire room. |
| 16:57.55 | devZero | I'm drooling over your 30" cinema display. |
| 16:57.56 | nevcairiel | coding on a rotated screen? I need long lines ;) |
| 16:57.57 | devZero | I must admit |
| 16:58.16 | devZero | I can't seem to justify to the wife why I need 3 of them :) |
| 16:58.21 | industrial | nevcairiel: get a smaller font! (sheldon narrow for example :3) |
| 16:58.24 | AnduinLothar | you don't need lines longer than a foot :P |
| 16:58.49 | AnduinLothar | what you need is 3 pages open at the same time :P |
| 16:58.54 | nevcairiel | industrial, the type of font doesnt really define its size .. i can scale down my too :P |
| 16:59.18 | AnduinLothar | anyway, work time |
| 16:59.22 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:59.31 | AnduinLothar | btw Dawn of Discovery is rediculously addictiong |
| 16:59.49 | AnduinLothar | it told me to stop playing cause i'd been playing for 8 hours |
| 16:59.55 | devZero | haha |
| 17:00.09 | devZero | my wii does that when I go on binges of Tiger Woods 10 |
| 17:00.32 | _rane | is there an event that allows hooking to any message that appears in the chat frame? |
| 17:01.10 | durcyn | you might could conceivably hook AddMessage |
| 17:02.59 | devZero | so, I finally bought the "World of Warcraft Programming" book. I'm finding it to be more useful than I originally thought. |
| 17:03.12 | Lopeppeppy | I really hate my building. It combines 4 buildings, with no clear signs for which one you're in. Palamountain, tower at one end. Bolton, the hallway connecting the tower to Dana. Harder, the small extension on the other end of Dana. |
| 17:03.38 | _rane | actually it's those yellow messages that I'm after so CHAT_MSG_SYSTEM might do |
| 17:03.41 | devZero | I hadn't bought it before, because I thought I could just get the information online. I'm liking the book over scanning online. |
| 17:03.57 | zenzelezz | palamountain, is that some sort of paladin past time game? |
| 17:04.14 | Lopeppeppy | Heavy high administration mucky mucks livethere. |
| 17:04.58 | devZero | _rane: yes, CHAT_MSG_SYSTEM is what you want then. |
| 17:06.55 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 17:06.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 17:08.32 | foxlit | http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/916-Wolfenstein |
| 17:08.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0134.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:10.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 17:12.23 | *** join/#wowuidev NeoTron (n=neotron@pool-173-64-144-162.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:21.58 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|work (n=chatzill@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 17:23.32 | Lopeppeppy | I want Wolfenstein, so bad. |
| 17:23.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 17:24.18 | theorbtwo | I want HL2E3, and World of Goo 2. |
| 17:24.23 | nevcairiel | Just buy it? |
| 17:24.47 | Thunder_Child | wolfenstein was rather boring |
| 17:24.57 | Lopeppeppy | but I love the Wolfenstein! *laugh* |
| 17:25.02 | Thunder_Child | world of goo was quite entertaining however |
| 17:27.24 | nicoli_s | i liked the latest wolfenstein |
| 17:28.49 | nicoli_s | the new halo was very dissapointing though |
| 17:29.06 | nevcairiel | i didnt play wolfenstein yet, but i heard from loads of people that it fails |
| 17:29.11 | devZero | neat... http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.etsy.com%2Fview_listing.php%3Fref%3Dvt_related_3%26listing_id%3D30647708&h=6604d1e1f958f3c884d2103bea03f25f |
| 17:29.18 | devZero | crap.. wrong chan |
| 17:29.58 | nicoli_s | etsy has some cool shit |
| 17:30.06 | nicoli_s | my gf sells hoola hoops in there |
| 17:30.25 | alestane | Okay, Crusader Bidenbrad is WAY too polite. |
| 17:30.46 | nicoli_s | nevcairiel, i havent tried the mp, but the single player was enjoyable, the open world was pretty cool, so the enemy encounters were pretty random which was cool, and the weapons and upgrade system was great |
| 17:31.06 | industrial | nevcairiel: actually sheldon narrow is a bitmap font, it only comes in 9pt and it's designed for programming |
| 17:31.15 | nevcairiel | screw bitmap fonts |
| 17:31.30 | industrial | why :p |
| 17:32.18 | devZero | I've been using Menlo, and it's nice :) |
| 17:32.45 | industrial | http://www.tobias-jung.de/seekingprofont/index.html |
| 17:33.07 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@87.62.107.174) |
| 17:37.03 | cog|away | anyone with msdn/technet get ridiculously slow speed on Windows Small Business Server 2008 disc 1? |
| 17:37.25 | cog|work | (like 25KB/s) |
| 17:38.37 | zenzelezz | small speeds for small businesses |
| 17:39.02 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo_ (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFCC6A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:39.32 | cog|work | http://instantrimshot.com |
| 17:40.39 | zenzelezz | I rue the day that my coworkers discovered the sound-programs for their iPhones |
| 17:41.00 | zenzelezz | all of a sudden the office was reverberating with rimshots, applause, and Arnold |
| 17:41.24 | zenzelezz | Hooo is yor daddy, and h-what dos he dooo? |
| 17:41.33 | Lunessa | Because no matter how wonderful a computer is, or how much labor it saves, some jackass will use it for fart and toilet noises. |
| 17:42.12 | devZero | I'm glad I don't have co-workers |
| 17:44.55 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 17:44.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 17:48.01 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@c-71-229-131-32.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:51.40 | Lopeppeppy | I have them, just not in my immediate office area. Like, across the hall and stuff. |
| 17:52.18 | devZero | Well, I guess you could consider Thott my co-worker, but I don't talk to him for weeks at a time sometimes. |
| 17:52.26 | zenzelezz | you should join me in my immediate office area peppy |
| 17:52.29 | KarlKFI|work | Wolfenstein was fun |
| 17:52.47 | KarlKFI|work | the multiplayer is meh |
| 17:52.52 | KarlKFI|work | and the graphics are meh |
| 17:52.58 | KarlKFI|work | but the game was entertaining |
| 17:53.42 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 17:53.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
| 17:56.52 | Lopeppeppy | zenzelezz, they occasionally allow me to telecommute, but I don't think I'd keep my job if I tried to full-time telecommute. :) |
| 17:57.55 | zenzelezz | then let's just run off with their money! |
| 18:09.06 | Fisker | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:09.07 | Fisker | slaps zenzelezz around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:10.30 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 18:11.23 | Lopeppeppy | The sheeple continue to surprise me. I just had one call me, irate, because she has to size photos before using them on her web page, and she didn't allot enough time to do that. So not my problem. |
| 18:11.53 | kdtresh | resizer powertoy |
| 18:12.02 | Lopeppeppy | Photoshop Express free online, go go go. |
| 18:12.15 | Thunder_Child | correct Lopeppeppy, NMP is the phrase of the lifetime |
| 18:16.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:19.16 | Lunessa | Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part. Do your job, and don't try to make it mine. |
| 18:22.16 | Lopeppeppy | I call it Vitamin P7. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. |
| 18:29.29 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 18:31.21 | Thunder_Child | ~weather klax |
| 18:31.56 | Lopeppeppy | ~weather kalb |
| 18:32.32 | Lopeppeppy | Only this time of year do California and New York match. :) |
| 18:32.32 | *** part/#wowuidev Saint-N (n=art3mis@WoWUIDev/WoWI/HKUI/art3mis) |
| 18:37.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (n=N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
| 18:37.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Nechckn] by ChanServ |
| 18:39.04 | devZero | Neat space stuff for those who like that sort of thing |
| 18:39.05 | devZero | http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/multimedia/ero/index.html |
| 18:39.43 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.238) |
| 18:46.29 | NiLon | Ackis you maybe should do something about that misshighlight :D |
| 18:46.52 | Ackis | bah :P |
| 18:49.34 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:51.28 | durcyn | makes you feel kind of stupid: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1212005/Teenager-invents-23-solar-panel-solution-developing-worlds-energy-needs-human-hair.html |
| 18:52.24 | Ackis | whenever I feel that way durcyn I just read something you write and it's all better ;) |
| 18:52.31 | Cairenn | wow |
| 18:53.21 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:53.47 | Ackis | no come back :( |
| 18:53.52 | nicoli_s | that was scathing ackis |
| 18:54.10 | Seerah | ~lart Ackis |
| 18:54.11 | purl | puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at Ackis |
| 18:54.13 | Ackis | no you guys are making me feel bad |
| 18:54.16 | Ackis | only a little |
| 18:54.19 | durcyn | i'm just happy to be able to enlighten you, Ackis |
| 18:54.21 | Ackis | because it was a good pwwn |
| 18:54.24 | Seerah | thanks, durcyn - that was an interesting read :) |
| 18:54.29 | Ackis | ohh well played durcyn |
| 18:56.13 | Cide- | did a lot of servers just go down? |
| 18:57.16 | sag_ich_nicht | http://offsystem.sourceforge.net/ ahahahah this is hilarious |
| 18:57.22 | sag_ich_nicht | good bye DMCA and copyright law |
| 18:59.23 | industrial | sag_ich_nicht: very nice |
| 18:59.41 | industrial | I read something about systems like this once, always wondered if it would actually work. |
| 18:59.58 | industrial | and what implications it has on copyright law |
| 19:00.03 | industrial | and if it will even hold or not ;P |
| 19:00.18 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (n=f@WoWUIDev/Durcyn) |
| 19:00.36 | alestane | I don't think that will defend people very well...intention is clear even if data is not. |
| 19:02.05 | nicoli_s | interesting stuff |
| 19:02.10 | industrial | well if you make it so you technically do not take or own the claimed copyrighted content then they will be sueing you for random files which neither owns |
| 19:03.26 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR2 (n=brandonm@24.114.252.243) |
| 19:04.40 | Ackis | when have they needed proof to try and sue anyone? :P |
| 19:04.51 | alestane | If a file's contents are consistent with a copyrighted work, I doubt it matters how it was obtained. |
| 19:05.27 | industrial | if you repaint a painting to the most miniscule detail does that make you a theif? |
| 19:05.42 | Lopeppeppy | If you sell it as the original, of course. |
| 19:05.47 | alestane | No, but it makes you a forger. |
| 19:06.02 | nevcairiel | Are you a forger, if you only do it to hang it on your own wall? |
| 19:06.10 | industrial | no. |
| 19:06.28 | industrial | you are an artist |
| 19:06.40 | Ackis | imma sandwich artist! |
| 19:06.42 | industrial | ofcourse that doesnt apply to eg ripping a movie |
| 19:06.57 | Lopeppeppy | Different copyrights. |
| 19:06.57 | alestane | If you were creating anything, sure. But this is basically a way to copy data at one remove. It won't stand up. |
| 19:07.18 | Cide- | alestane: what may have implications is that all the law breaking occurs locally rather than over the net |
| 19:07.20 | alestane | If they have to, they will change the law. This won't be allowed to stand. |
| 19:07.43 | alestane | I'm sure they can find a way to describe it separately from other uses. |
| 19:07.50 | nevcairiel | Copyright laws need to change anyway. I'm being sued if i try to sell a CD that i bought before? |
| 19:07.53 | nevcairiel | Thats like, wtf. |
| 19:08.14 | Cide- | alestane: the problem isn't making it illegal but catching the people using it (imo) |
| 19:08.25 | Lopeppeppy | The laws are old, I think most people will agree they need revising. |
| 19:08.53 | durcyn | they were fine before corporate feudalism resulted in their nigh upon indefinite extensions |
| 19:09.00 | Cide- | it's harder to detect since a given file can be represented in basically arbitrary ways |
| 19:09.12 | durcyn | the public domain should not be a wasteland |
| 19:09.24 | industrial | "ITunes uses an identical process to enable friends to play each others music without copying.via streaming." |
| 19:09.29 | alestane | They were generally fine before data could be reproduced infinitely and losslessly. |
| 19:09.34 | industrial | isnt letting the stream reaching a local buffer then playing it also a copy? |
| 19:10.01 | durcyn | infinite lossless copies are irrelevant for anything beyond profit |
| 19:10.31 | industrial | the same kid of copy as then copying it from that local buffer to a file |
| 19:10.37 | industrial | eg ripping it |
| 19:11.17 | alestane | A profit is not without honor, save when it's in someone else's pocket. |
| 19:11.33 | durcyn | my beef is with the term of said copyright, not with the concept itself |
| 19:11.39 | Lunessa | The implication of their article is that any sequence of numbers mathematically can represent any data - the way to get the data out in the format you want is with the relationship filter. It seems that they want to shift the responsibility for violations of copyright violations from the storer to the decoder. |
| 19:11.42 | durcyn | life of the author plus what, 85 years? |
| 19:11.50 | durcyn | 85 years is a long time to deprive the commons. |
| 19:12.16 | durcyn | and all so steamboat willie doesn't enter the public domain and affect disney's margins |
| 19:12.26 | Cide- | Lunessa: which is interesting |
| 19:12.44 | industrial | I'm voting for my national pirate party the moment they set up to be elected |
| 19:12.49 | industrial | I think 5 years is more then enough |
| 19:13.04 | nevcairiel | no pirate party in NL yet? |
| 19:13.07 | industrial | (which is on their agenda to bring it down to) |
| 19:13.09 | industrial | working on it |
| 19:13.19 | Lunessa | Or mine, or Microsoft's, or anyone else who invents or creates something. Should Bullwinkle belong to everyone just because a set time frame has passed since his first apperance? |
| 19:13.20 | nevcairiel | i'm a member of the german pirate party |
| 19:14.41 | Lunessa | Information doesn't seek to be free, yo. People seek to have it for free. |
| 19:15.39 | industrial | I don't think the author needs to be protected anymore after such a long time |
| 19:15.39 | industrial | instead let it be an addition to the world's culture |
| 19:15.47 | nevcairiel | protecting the author is fine, but the customers need protection too |
| 19:15.51 | nicoli_s | lunessa obviously owns a lot of copyrights :P |
| 19:15.53 | nevcairiel | they are just being abused right now |
| 19:16.58 | Lunessa | In many cases, sure. But telling me that I can't profit on the work of my brain/skill because "it should belong to the commons" is just tyranny of the masses instead of tyranny of the depsot. |
| 19:17.00 | sag_ich_nicht | [21:07] <+Cide-> alestane: what may have implications is that all the law breaking occurs locally rather than over the net <--this. thus nobody can track it, thus nobody can proof it unless you get raided |
| 19:17.30 | industrial | and ofcourse you have everything set up encrypted but then you get sued for not giving them they key :( |
| 19:17.38 | alestane | Does the difficulty of proving that someone is infringing mean that they aren't? |
| 19:17.54 | Cide- | sag_ich_nicht: and even so you could store your files with the same system |
| 19:18.19 | sag_ich_nicht | alestane: if a tree falls down in the woods and nobody is there, does it make a sound |
| 19:18.23 | Cide- | thus making it more or less impossible to say what you have stored |
| 19:18.24 | sag_ich_nicht | same argument, basically |
| 19:18.55 | industrial | Lunessa: but protecting the author even after death? copyrights are just passed down for descendants to profit from as well (or people that buy the copyrights) |
| 19:19.06 | durcyn | Lunessa: except that in 99.999999 percent of these cases, the 'author' is actually a corporate kleptocracy |
| 19:19.06 | Cide- | it's problematic for sure |
| 19:19.15 | industrial | it just doesn't make sense except for making money. |
| 19:19.32 | alestane | sag_ich_nicht: According to the "proper" definition, a sound is not a sound unless something hears it, because sound is defined as a perception. But it still crushes any other trees in its way. |
| 19:19.32 | industrial | durcyn: exactly |
| 19:19.37 | nevcairiel | Lunessa, only silly extremists ask for that. The real issues are the laws that allow the companys to completly abuse the customers and bend everything their way. If i buy a music-CD, do i purchase the medium, or the license to the music? If its the medium, why cant i sell it without being sued? If its the license, why can't i copy it as backup? |
| 19:19.51 | sag_ich_nicht | alestane: I was just making an analogy :| |
| 19:19.53 | Lunessa | industrial: I do think that if I want to pass down the rights to my invention or creative work to my descendants, I should be able to. |
| 19:20.09 | durcyn | so, no, 50 years later, i do not under any circumstances feel that the estates of the beatles should still be collecting hideous amounts of money |
| 19:20.19 | durcyn | or rather, their record label, as it turns out. |
| 19:20.21 | alestane | The question is, is intellectual property owned in perpetuity? |
| 19:20.38 | alestane | Material property is. |
| 19:20.55 | alestane | I do acknowledge that there are differences between them. |
| 19:21.10 | durcyn | convince me that property is the correct term for it |
| 19:21.13 | Lunessa | And what's going to happen when we decide that your genetic information is not your property? (just to be vicious and crule) |
| 19:21.30 | nevcairiel | Even worse are software patent, sadly the industry was strong enough to get them in place in the US. I'm so glad we successfully avoided them in the EU. |
| 19:21.40 | durcyn | and let's take the technology out of it. if beethoven's works were under copyright today, would that be a net positive impact on the commons? |
| 19:22.18 | Lunessa | Bethoven is safely outside the copyright period. So is shakespere. |
| 19:22.34 | durcyn | right. pretend it isn't for a minute, and think on the consequences |
| 19:22.43 | industrial | so could be everything made by everyone saved forever losslessly copied infinately |
| 19:22.52 | nevcairiel | Lunessa, think in 100 years, or even 200, what about stuff from *now*? :) |
| 19:22.57 | industrial | for the good of mankind so to say |
| 19:23.02 | Lunessa | But you're saying J.K. Rowling shouldn't get to protect her works beyond her own life? |
| 19:24.00 | nevcairiel | For some period of time, sure. But not too long, and definately not indefinitely |
| 19:24.11 | durcyn | i'm saying I don't personally feel she should be able to profit from them for some arbitrary point past their original publication, length of her life is only relevant because that's how it's defined some places |
| 19:24.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@70.167.195.98) |
| 19:24.26 | durcyn | and right now said arbitrary point has grown far too large for my taste |
| 19:25.08 | alestane | So, basically, you think there should be a point at which the public domain is considered to have purchased the property from its creator? |
| 19:25.21 | nevcairiel | There already is that point. |
| 19:25.26 | durcyn | i'm not sure purchase is the best word for it |
| 19:25.36 | nevcairiel | Its just way too long in the future |
| 19:25.42 | durcyn | but once copyright expires, where else does creative work go? yes, the public domain, absolutely |
| 19:25.46 | durcyn | the question then becomes when |
| 19:25.55 | Lunessa | That's fine - I feel differently than you about it. But we only have to agree that people should be able to profit from their creative or inventive work. |
| 19:25.56 | alestane | The other significant difference between intellectual property and material property is that intellectual property (as it is generally defined) can be resold infintely. |
| 19:26.05 | industrial | Lunessa: yes. |
| 19:26.14 | durcyn | you can't tell me you find the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act (bought and paid for by the Disney Corporation) to be fitting and proper, can you? |
| 19:26.16 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=brandonm@24.114.252.238) |
| 19:26.27 | durcyn | i'd like to know if you can, it'd simplify this discussion a bit for me |
| 19:26.39 | Lunessa | Don't know the details of the act - so I can't argue the point. |
| 19:26.46 | alestane | The origins of an act don't define its propriety as much as its content, which I am not familiar with. |
| 19:27.12 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:27.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:27.47 | durcyn | specifically the extension of copyright it mandated |
| 19:27.52 | durcyn | let me see if i can find the specifics |
| 19:28.12 | durcyn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act |
| 19:28.20 | Lunessa | I wrote some very compelling fiction that Games Workshop wanted to use. But because their contracts all require "work for hire" status of the work, obviating any copyright claim I have, they didn't get to publish it. We might argue that is depriving the commons 'cause I'm selfish. |
| 19:29.12 | durcyn | and your creative work will languish on a shelf. why? |
| 19:29.36 | durcyn | actually that's a whole other can of worms |
| 19:31.54 | Lunessa | Because I didn't want to give up my claim to someone else. That's why. |
| 19:32.05 | industrial | I think it would be very nice for people in the future to be able to acces things we made today in a much much better way we can access things made 500 years ago for free for everyone as part of the history of mankind. They will really see how life is right now whereas we can not do that with times past |
| 19:32.10 | alestane | durcyn: I get the definite feeling you're looking at this predominantly from a "greatest good for the greatest number" standpoint. While I don't particularly disagree, not everyone feels that that's the ultimate value. |
| 19:32.24 | Lunessa | There are lots of issues related to copyright, but the central one is "this is mine, I made it. I should be able to profit from it." |
| 19:32.47 | nevcairiel | Noone argues that the author should not profit from it. |
| 19:33.02 | alestane | It is also intended to protect invention (both scientific and creative) by preserving incentive. |
| 19:33.03 | *** join/#wowuidev giovanni_ (n=chatzill@151.16.233.102) |
| 19:33.29 | durcyn | my only assertion is that said incentive should not be indefinite |
| 19:33.39 | alestane | That was part of the controversy surrounding the AddOn policy. |
| 19:34.32 | alestane | That is the question, since selling a license to your intellectual property doesn't currently diminish your ability to sell further licenses to that property. |
| 19:34.51 | alestane | Thus, its value does not diminish as long as there are buyers. |
| 19:35.10 | alestane | Unlike real estate or material goods. |
| 19:35.43 | nevcairiel | at least in german copyright law, you can sell an "exclusive" license |
| 19:35.53 | Lunessa | Digital Age has made an interesting twist - some kinds of goods become more valuable the more copies there are in use of them (Operating Systems, Office Suites, etc.) |
| 19:36.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Jiminizer2 (n=jiminize@jiminizer.plus.com) |
| 19:39.19 | Lopeppeppy | INAL! |
| 19:39.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 19:39.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 19:39.47 | alestane | durcyn: As far as I can tell, the real question you're raising is not what sort of term is acceptable but rather whether it's appropriate for intellectual property to have inexhaustible resellability. |
| 19:41.04 | durcyn | alestane: i suppose. the idea of copyright in perpetuity frightens me. |
| 19:42.13 | durcyn | seeing as the vast majority of copyright holders are not artists but their publishers/labels/studios/etc, it kind of feels like yet another step closer to corporate feudalism |
| 19:42.24 | Shirik | alestane |
| 19:42.28 | Shirik | that had way too many big words |
| 19:42.33 | Shirik | and I am very scared that I understood it |
| 19:42.42 | alestane | ROLFMAO |
| 19:42.50 | Lunessa | Shirik: Today, you are a Man. |
| 19:42.50 | alestane | FL* |
| 19:47.00 | industrial | Does anyone here have experience with PAC proxy files? |
| 19:47.19 | industrial | Using the information on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_auto-config with pac file http://gist.github.com/183972 and configuration url file://C:/path/to/file.pac I can not get chrome to proxy one url and not all others. Is my javascript wrong or something? |
| 19:57.03 | Lunessa | Breaking news. Apparently, someone has hijacked a plane in Mexico. |
| 19:57.26 | Ackis | ZOMG 9/9!!! |
| 19:57.30 | Ackis | http://my.curse.com/blogs/sheeeeep/default.aspx <-- my blog |
| 19:57.53 | industrial | curse has sub blogs now? |
| 19:58.07 | Ackis | aye any yahoo can do it |
| 19:58.13 | industrial | what doesn't it try to do! |
| 19:58.21 | Shirik | why do people hijack planes? |
| 19:58.45 | Shirik | unless you're intending to kill yourself, these people have never successfully accomplished anything |
| 19:58.47 | devZero | Adys: the color hurts my eyes |
| 19:58.50 | devZero | :P |
| 19:59.12 | devZero | it makes me feel like your too aggressive, and angry :P |
| 19:59.15 | industrial | Shirik: they were out of salty food thingies? |
| 19:59.43 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-7f7be155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:59.46 | Ackis | damn that Adys right devZero? |
| 20:00.16 | devZero | damn nick completion... |
| 20:00.19 | devZero | I means Ackis |
| 20:00.21 | devZero | meant |
| 20:00.25 | devZero | gah, I give up |
| 20:01.36 | Adys | which color devZero ? |
| 20:01.44 | devZero | umm... all of it :P |
| 20:01.52 | Adys | wut |
| 20:01.53 | Adys | what? |
| 20:01.54 | Adys | explain |
| 20:01.57 | foxlit | "Read Before You Install iTunes.app" |
| 20:01.57 | devZero | Adys: sorry, I meant to type Ackis |
| 20:02.08 | devZero | irssi nick completion screwed it i[ |
| 20:02.12 | devZero | up* |
| 20:02.12 | Adys | k |
| 20:02.25 | foxlit | (it even uses the rtf icon -- curse you, apple) |
| 20:02.43 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@69.73.16.202) |
| 20:02.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 20:02.50 | devZero | foxlit: what are you talking about? |
| 20:03.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Jiminizer (n=jiminize@jiminizer.plus.com) |
| 20:03.22 | foxlit | devZero: There are two things in the itunes update package: the installer, and the readme app. |
| 20:03.28 | devZero | ah |
| 20:03.37 | foxlit | It's curious that their readme is executable masquerading as a normal text file. |
| 20:04.10 | devZero | I just use software update |
| 20:05.10 | foxlit | (The reason is that they want to substitute the locale-specific readme without you thinking about it, but it's still evil) |
| 20:05.21 | devZero | "Home sharing enables file transfers between up to five local computers of songs, videos and even apps." sounds to promise a lot of dissapointment |
| 20:05.55 | durcyn | i'm disappointed they used 'between' instead of 'among' in that sentence. |
| 20:06.07 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@wireless-128-62-80-149.public.utexas.edu) |
| 20:06.34 | industrial | if you have 5 computers in the house you better know how to set up a file server |
| 20:06.41 | foxlit | Among seems to relate more to humans. |
| 20:06.51 | industrial | oh right, itunes doesn't regcognize location other then local right? |
| 20:06.57 | Shirik | huggles Cairenn and Lopeppeppy |
| 20:06.59 | durcyn | 'between' implies a quantity of two, or am i mistaken? |
| 20:07.13 | devZero | I've been struggling with actual iTunes sharing forever... I've got a total of 2 iMacs, 1 Mac Pro, 1 Macbook, 1 Macbook Pro, 1 Mac Mini, and an AppleTV... I don't like the standard sharing feature because I have to use a specific computer for purchases... Why can't they just introduce syncing already :/ |
| 20:07.24 | alestane | durcyn: I think it might, but it's a distinction largely vanished from modern English. |
| 20:07.32 | Shirik | durcyn is right |
| 20:07.38 | foxlit | devZero: Now they have. |
| 20:07.39 | durcyn | then i've got no truck with modern English |
| 20:07.40 | alestane | Rather like the further-farther or less-fewer disctionction. |
| 20:07.49 | industrial | I'll just use any one of these other free available music players to play my perfectly organized music collection that I can play from 1..100 computers in my house! |
| 20:07.54 | Shirik | however, "between" seems correct |
| 20:07.59 | Cairenn | huggles Shirik and everyone |
| 20:08.01 | devZero | foxlit: I'm downloading now... I hope it's a decent solution :P |
| 20:11.53 | devZero | okay, so the Home Sharing does look promising |
| 20:12.07 | devZero | finally! |
| 20:12.41 | nicoli_s | wow thats alot of macs devzero |
| 20:13.02 | devZero | I bought my wife one of the iMacs, and the Macbook |
| 20:13.05 | devZero | the rest are mine :) |
| 20:13.21 | alestane | http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/between-versus-among.aspx |
| 20:13.24 | Shirik | he's corrupted forever, nicoli_s |
| 20:13.42 | devZero | Corrupted? or Enlightened? :P |
| 20:13.51 | alestane | Yes, it's two vs. more than two. |
| 20:13.56 | nicoli_s | lol, i've never been a huge mac person myself, not that i dislike apple, i love their music players, just never found a reason to use a mac over a pc |
| 20:14.19 | Shirik | alestane, that doesn't tell the whole story though |
| 20:14.24 | nicoli_s | i mean i know there are advantages, just none that ive found that are applicable to me |
| 20:14.28 | Shirik | I believe apple is correct with "between" here |
| 20:14.32 | NightHawkTheSan1 | nicoli_s: i find one every time i have to install windows somewhere. :( |
| 20:14.35 | Shirik | because the sharing is not across all of the computers |
| 20:14.37 | devZero | I used to be a pc guy, but I decided I didn't want to deal w/ third party hardware anymore... Too many issues, and a high margin for error. |
| 20:14.39 | Shirik | it is across two computers |
| 20:14.50 | Shirik | you don't multicast music |
| 20:14.53 | Shirik | I mean you could |
| 20:14.55 | Shirik | but I doubt you would |
| 20:14.57 | devZero | Shirik: up to five. |
| 20:15.00 | Shirik | correct |
| 20:15.06 | Shirik | but at any given time it would only be two computers communicating |
| 20:15.43 | devZero | indeed.. I keep my main library on my mac mini / drobo running osx server. The cool thing for me now, is I can buy what I want on any computer, and then sync it up to the mini later. |
| 20:15.57 | devZero | I can also sync my iPod from any computer now too ( I think ) |
| 20:16.06 | devZero | that would be an awesome addition |
| 20:16.24 | alestane | It's purely a correctness of agreement, rather than a significance of implication. |
| 20:16.56 | alestane | Which is partly just me throwing in big words for the heck of it, I'll admit. |
| 20:16.57 | NightHawkTheSan1 | any indication of itunes9 being 64bit only? (or rather, intel only?) |
| 20:17.13 | devZero | NightHawkTheSane: nope, still 32 |
| 20:17.17 | NightHawkTheSane | woo! |
| 20:17.30 | Shirik | why would they do that NightHawkTheSane |
| 20:17.54 | devZero | Because iTunes is one of only 3 applications from Apple that's still 32bit. |
| 20:17.57 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ |
| 20:18.04 | devZero | that come with the base os |
| 20:18.08 | NightHawkTheSane | eventually, all of apple's software will be 64bit/intel |
| 20:18.13 | devZero | yep |
| 20:18.15 | durcyn | i think he's more interested in whether or not they're shipping it with a powerpc fat binary, natch |
| 20:19.01 | NightHawkTheSane | My music library is on my old G5, so the longer i can keep using that and still have all the fancy new features, the better. :) |
| 20:19.24 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: yeah, thats more or less it. |
| 20:19.39 | foxlit | What really would be useful is the ability to share speakers |
| 20:19.42 | devZero | I think it's about time that someone actually took the effort for full 64bit compatibility. Windows had it wrong w/ the forceful requirement of having to have 64bit drivers signed. Windows XP 64bit was a good OS, but the signing was a huge setback. |
| 20:19.45 | Shirik | why is Apple trashing Motorola? |
| 20:19.51 | Shirik | they had such a good relationship |
| 20:19.58 | NightHawkTheSane | huh? who said they were? |
| 20:20.01 | foxlit | i.e. force the laptop you're on to stream music to your desktop's speaker |
| 20:20.08 | Shirik | Well you just said they're going Intel |
| 20:20.11 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: airtunes? (i think thats the name) |
| 20:20.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: .. uh.. dude, welcome to like 6 years ago. |
| 20:20.21 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: Yes. But for generic devices. |
| 20:20.25 | Shirik | well yes |
| 20:20.26 | devZero | foxlit: I do that with Airport Express and AppleYV |
| 20:20.28 | devZero | AppleTV |
| 20:20.32 | Shirik | but they still supported Motorola |
| 20:20.40 | Shirik | you seem to be implying that they're just completely getting rid of them now |
| 20:20.45 | foxlit | cba getting an AE station for each pair of speakers around the house. |
| 20:20.47 | NightHawkTheSane | no |
| 20:20.48 | devZero | Shirik: they are... |
| 20:20.51 | NightHawkTheSane | They didn't support motorola |
| 20:20.55 | NightHawkTheSane | they supported their previous hardware |
| 20:21.01 | devZero | Snow Leopard is a step in no more PPC |
| 20:21.16 | Shirik | the question still remains "why" |
| 20:21.32 | devZero | Because Intel provides a good chip at a nice price? |
| 20:21.44 | NightHawkTheSane | why what? Why drop support for the ppc architecture? |
| 20:21.48 | Shirik | So? Apple doesn't provide a computer at a nice price. |
| 20:21.49 | devZero | I don't pretend to know... I'm just talking out of my ass at this point. |
| 20:22.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Because at some point, apple doesn't want to use valuable development resources maintaining support for a rapidly obsoleting platform |
| 20:22.23 | Shirik | I'm not sure it's obsoleting |
| 20:22.30 | Shirik | tons of systems use Motorola chips |
| 20:22.30 | devZero | Shirik: I think Apple's pricing is decent. You get what you pay for, and I pay for not having to deal w/ third party manufacturers who could care less if the pos they sold me works. |
| 20:22.31 | NightHawkTheSane | As far as apple is concerned, it is. |
| 20:22.40 | NightHawkTheSane | so? Apple devices do NOT |
| 20:22.45 | alestane | I think it was somewhere between the compatibility point and the increasing shift to multi-core, although I don't know if Intel had that much more expertise on that front than Motorola. |
| 20:22.52 | Shirik | So you're saying it's obsoleting because Apple's making it obsolete |
| 20:22.58 | Shirik | which goes back to the question "why are they doing that" |
| 20:23.02 | NightHawkTheSane | ... are you being intentionally dense? |
| 20:23.07 | devZero | No one said it's obsolete... It's just not what apple is using anymore. |
| 20:23.19 | NightHawkTheSane | Apple has obsoleted it's ppc product lineup. it did this -6- years ago. |
| 20:23.31 | Shirik | You are ignoring the question |
| 20:23.36 | Shirik | or not answering the right one |
| 20:23.39 | devZero | 0.o |
| 20:23.42 | Shirik | I am totally aware they did it |
| 20:23.45 | NightHawkTheSane | It maintains support because thats what it does as a not-craptacular company, but at some point, it needs to stop wasting its resources, and focus on its current products |
| 20:23.46 | Shirik | You aren't saying why |
| 20:24.05 | devZero | ^ |
| 20:24.14 | Shirik | alestane is the only one who's actually given me an answer to my question |
| 20:24.15 | foxlit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleâIntel_transition#Reasons |
| 20:24.16 | NightHawkTheSane | You're confusing "Motorola" with "Apple PPC devices" |
| 20:24.17 | Shirik | which is arguable |
| 20:24.18 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:24.20 | foxlit | Knock yourself out, Shirik :) |
| 20:24.32 | alestane | I think they wanted to offer Intel-based Macs, and didn't want to maintain their support across two platforms to do it. |
| 20:24.34 | foxlit | In particular, "Steve Jobs stated that Apple's primary motivation for the transition was their disappointment with the progress of IBM's development of PowerPC technology, and their greater faith in Intel to meet Apple's needs." |
| 20:24.34 | Shirik | that doesn't exist, foxlit? |
| 20:24.44 | foxlit | Your link highlighter probably sucks. |
| 20:24.58 | foxlit | (so much for their good relationship) |
| 20:25.03 | Shirik | no, your link creator sucks |
| 20:25.04 | alestane | "Steve Jobs stated that Apple's primary motivation for the transition was their disappointment with the progress of IBM's development of PowerPC technology, and their greater faith in Intel to meet Apple's needs. In particular, he cited the performance per watt (that is, the speed per unit of electrical power) projections in the roadmap provided by Intel. This is an especially important consideration in laptop design, which affects th |
| 20:25.07 | Shirik | it's a hyphen not a en-dash |
| 20:25.21 | Shirik | oh I guess en-dash is supported too |
| 20:25.21 | foxlit | /care |
| 20:25.22 | alestane | Oops, duplicate. |
| 20:25.24 | foxlit | Works for me :) |
| 20:25.34 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: showed up fine for me too :P |
| 20:25.54 | Shirik | Hm, Intel does in fact do a lot of work in power consumption |
| 20:26.16 | alestane | That was one of the points on which they sold the Celeron. |
| 20:26.27 | devZero | I apologize, I mistook Motorola, for PPC... |
| 20:26.29 | alestane | It certainly wasn't processing power. |
| 20:27.11 | Shirik | I thought the selling point of the celeron was its price |
| 20:27.46 | devZero | Is there any good reason to have a Celeron? |
| 20:28.00 | Shirik | price, and according to alestane, power consumption |
| 20:28.02 | devZero | They were terrible processors. |
| 20:28.16 | NightHawkTheSane | I imagine for low-power/cheap devices they might be useful. |
| 20:28.23 | alestane | I base that opinion on advertising, not specs. |
| 20:28.41 | devZero | I've only had 2 celeron pc's... Both of them ran hot, and never gave half the processing power of the equally priced models |
| 20:29.34 | devZero | Crap manufacturers ( read: Dell, HP ) use Celerons to cut costs, and make their clientelle beleive they're obtaining a quality product. |
| 20:30.10 | Shirik | but what if you don't need the processing power |
| 20:30.22 | Shirik | oh, equally priced |
| 20:30.26 | devZero | I've replaced numerous celerons for clients, because they just aren't solid products. These clients simply do word processing, and web browsing |
| 20:34.11 | Shirik | what exactly is a "value added tax"? |
| 20:34.17 | Shirik | i.e., how is it difference from sales tax? |
| 20:34.25 | Cide- | what's sales tax? |
| 20:34.57 | Cide- | VAT appears to be a type of sales tax according to wp |
| 20:35.03 | Lopeppeppy | Where is this seen, Shirik, context is everything. |
| 20:35.08 | Shirik | http://blogs.reuters.com/commentaries/2009/09/08/why-the-us-needs-a-value-added-tax/?p=3634?tempedition=debatehub |
| 20:35.10 | foxlit | " In contrast to sales tax, VAT is neutral with respect to the number of passages that there are between the producer and the final consumer; where sales tax is levied on total value at each stage (though in US and many other countries sales tax is only charged at final sale to the final consumer and use tax final user, thus there are no sales taxes paid at wholesale or production level), the result is a cascade (downstream taxes levied on upstream taxes). |
| 20:35.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Neat article by monte cook: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/days-of-high-adventure/6469-Gamers-on-Their-Own-The-Challenges-of-Early-D-D |
| 20:35.16 | Shirik | they seem to argue that the US does not charge a VAT |
| 20:35.34 | Shirik | yes I didn't understand that foxlit |
| 20:35.43 | Shirik | because immediately after saying what the difference is between sales tax and VAT |
| 20:35.49 | Shirik | they say "but the US doesn't charge sales tax like that" |
| 20:35.54 | Shirik | and I read it "They charge it like a VAT" |
| 20:36.10 | Lopeppeppy | Sounds like the US charges sales tax once, and other places charge it multiple times, calling it VAT instead. |
| 20:36.19 | Cide- | VAT only charges once |
| 20:36.33 | Cide- | sales tax on the contrary doesn't |
| 20:36.40 | Shirik | except in the US |
| 20:36.42 | Cide- | right |
| 20:36.44 | Shirik | so how is what the US is doing not a VAT |
| 20:36.47 | Cide- | no clue |
| 20:36.57 | Cide- | who here plays a death knight "competitively"? |
| 20:37.07 | NightHawkTheSane | from that article.. "a VAT is extremely easy to collect. This is partly because it is gathered from each producer in a chain." |
| 20:37.19 | NightHawkTheSane | that seems to contradict the idea that a VAT is collected only once |
| 20:37.27 | NightHawkTheSane | so.. someone somewhere seems confused about this |
| 20:37.44 | Cide- | Tax cascading is avoided by permitting the seller to remit to the government only the difference between the tax charged to the purchaser and the tax paid by the seller to its suppliers |
| 20:38.05 | Shirik | ah I get it |
| 20:38.17 | Shirik | so "value added" being "I tax the difference between my purchase price and my sales price" |
| 20:38.21 | Cide- | i.e. it's gathered from each producer but only the difference from sell price vs buy price |
| 20:38.33 | Shirik | that makes sense |
| 20:38.42 | NightHawkTheSane | ahah |
| 20:39.07 | NightHawkTheSane | on the surface, not a terrible idea |
| 20:39.15 | Cide- | it works in practice :P |
| 20:39.17 | NightHawkTheSane | although i really dislike the disdain he gives to taxing the rich. we should do that TOO. |
| 20:39.30 | Cide- | hey, we have it here. |
| 20:39.48 | Lunessa | We tax the fuck out of the rich. |
| 20:39.58 | Lunessa | Don't pretend we don't. |
| 20:40.06 | Shirik | I'm going to be rich soon |
| 20:40.08 | Shirik | :D |
| 20:40.34 | Lunessa | Excellent - you can subsidize many more people then. :P |
| 20:40.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: we should do it more, though, and allow less loopholes. :) |
| 20:40.43 | durcyn | is ppc even still motorola? i thought they spun that off to Freescale and IBM shat all over it. |
| 20:40.52 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: NO, THANK YOU. |
| 20:41.01 | durcyn | and Apple has a shaky-at-best history with IBM, iirc |
| 20:41.12 | Lunessa | Stupid Caps Lock key |
| 20:42.04 | NightHawkTheSane | durcyn: indeed, I dont believe Motorola or Apple are currently involved with the PPC specification |
| 20:42.22 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: I'm still fighting with the IRS over taxes they claim I owe from when I was "rich" - and the amount they claim I owe is nearly 3 years salary. |
| 20:42.39 | Shirik | durcyn: Freescale is Motorola |
| 20:43.07 | Shirik | ah I guess they divested |
| 20:43.09 | Shirik | ic |
| 20:43.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: the fact that you put rich in quotes means that either you weren't rich as I'm using it, or you were, but are somehow deluded into thinking otherwise. I'm going to assume it's the former ;) And I'm certainly not saying the IRS doesn't have any flaws. |
| 20:45.03 | Lunessa | Our tax system punishes you for making income. It's a silly way to do things. SILLY. I'm more interested in a government that doesn't use jack-booted thugs and prison terms to finance itself. |
| 20:45.56 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 20:46.02 | foxlit | "Punishing" is an interesting term. |
| 20:46.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: would you rather it punish people for NOT having income? That's even worse. |
| 20:46.09 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ also |
| 20:46.45 | Lunessa | I used it intentionally. And our system does currently punish you for not having money too. Just in a different way. |
| 20:46.51 | alestane | I do think that every dollar by which you increase your earnings should increase your income, but I don't have a problem with a certain level of diminishing returns. Might encourage people to stop and smell the roses occasionally. |
| 20:47.29 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: which is another flaw. |
| 20:47.54 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: or, just not horde wealth in a rich-get-richer-and-damn-the-rest scenario? |
| 20:48.09 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: Yeah, but if we go down this road much further I'm going to be asked to leave the channel. |
| 20:48.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: yeah, the same could easily apply to me. ;) |
| 20:50.16 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (i=as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 20:52.10 | Lunessa | In geekier news, I just created the computer account for the school's new anime club. |
| 20:52.23 | alestane | That's pretty geeky news. |
| 20:52.37 | NightHawkTheSane | woo |
| 20:52.55 | Shirik | Lunessa, how would you make a tax system which doesn't "punsh people for making income"? |
| 20:53.08 | NightHawkTheSane | so, the sci-fi channel's dune remake is really bad. |
| 20:53.17 | NightHawkTheSane | a lot worse than i remember it being when i first watched it. |
| 20:53.42 | Thunder_Child | syfy now |
| 20:54.37 | NightHawkTheSane | fuck that noise. |
| 20:54.40 | alestane | Shirik: Some people like a flat tax idea. |
| 20:54.47 | Shirik | I think that's a horrible idea |
| 20:54.55 | *** join/#wowuidev kneeki (n=chatzill@66.45.169.50) |
| 20:55.00 | kneeki | Hey everyone |
| 20:55.11 | Cairenn | hey |
| 20:55.17 | kneeki | Is 'if type == "SWING_DAMAGE" or "DAMAGE_SPLIT" or "DAMAGE_SHIELD" or "ENVIRONMENTAL_DAMAGE" then' the correct syntax? |
| 20:55.23 | Shirik | no |
| 20:55.28 | kneeki | Makes sense |
| 20:55.37 | Shirik | type == "SWING_DAMAGE" or type == "DAMAGE_SPLIT" ... |
| 20:55.41 | kneeki | Yeah, thought so |
| 20:55.48 | Lunessa | Shirik: Funny, I think a flat tax is a better idea than a progressive tax system. |
| 20:55.48 | Shirik | technically what you said is syntactically correct |
| 20:55.50 | kneeki | I was hoping there was a way to make it a bit easier to read |
| 20:55.50 | Shirik | but not what you wanted |
| 20:55.51 | devZero | Would be a nice shorthand though :/ |
| 20:56.02 | Shirik | devZero: Except it's ambiguous with valid syntax |
| 20:56.06 | Shirik | that is perfectly valid |
| 20:56.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa, Shirik: for everyone's sake, lets just not talk about taxes anymore. :) |
| 20:56.58 | Cide- | python does it right |
| 20:57.03 | Shirik | python does nothign right |
| 20:57.10 | alestane | Only is "flat tax" taken to mean "You owe $500 regardless of your income," or "You owe 20% of your earnings, regardless of how much it is?" The U.S. system presently increases its rates with income. |
| 20:57.11 | Cide- | type in ("SWING_DAMAGE", "DAMAGE_SPLIT", "DAMAGE_SHIELD" ...) |
| 20:57.22 | Lunessa | *nod* I'm treading dangerously close to an aneurism (sp?) as it is. |
| 20:57.23 | batbot | Lunessa, aneurism is correct. |
| 20:57.23 | Shirik | does python force tabs or can you do spaces? |
| 20:57.29 | mikma | shirik: the privateserver coder was here again today, this time jnwhiteh let him hear some points of truth |
| 20:57.29 | Adys | ofc you can do spaces |
| 20:57.31 | Cide- | it strongly encourages spaces |
| 20:57.41 | kneeki | Cide-: oooooo! |
| 20:57.45 | Adys | as long as you keep a consistant indent in a single block |
| 20:57.45 | Shirik | Adys I refuse to talk to you about tabs |
| 20:57.46 | kneeki | now that I like |
| 20:58.00 | Cide- | kneeki: it's python not lua |
| 20:58.05 | kneeki | oh damnit |
| 20:58.07 | kneeki | =( |
| 20:58.33 | Shirik | bbl |
| 20:58.55 | NightHawkTheSane | you could fake that in lua with a table, but it'd be hacky. :P |
| 20:59.04 | Cide- | no 'contains' operator |
| 20:59.11 | Cide- | anyone know offhand if an event is fired for when a rune comes off cd? |
| 20:59.21 | Cide- | I'm lazy |
| 20:59.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide-: I think so. |
| 20:59.27 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide-: i forget exactly which, though |
| 20:59.28 | alestane | Yes, but I forget what. |
| 20:59.46 | Cide- | RUNE_TYPE_UPDATE? |
| 20:59.54 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, that sounds right |
| 21:00.12 | NightHawkTheSane | I think that fires on any rune update as well |
| 21:00.13 | Cide- | I tried but didn't figure it out |
| 21:00.17 | alestane | Blizzard_CombatText.lua will tell you if you look near the end of CobmatText_AddMessage |
| 21:00.24 | Cide- | maybe my code is bugged |
| 21:01.28 | Cide- | f = CreateFrame("Frame"); f:RegisterEvent("RUNE_TYPE_UPDATE"); f:SetScript("OnEvent", function(self, ...) print(...) end) |
| 21:02.52 | Cide- | nope |
| 21:04.42 | Cide- | it's used in several rune addons |
| 21:07.25 | alestane | RUNE_POWER_UPDATE |
| 21:07.33 | Cide- | that does runes too? interesting |
| 21:07.44 | Cide- | I figured it was runic power |
| 21:07.56 | alestane | That's a different event. |
| 21:08.01 | NightHawkTheSane | ah, yeah |
| 21:08.10 | NightHawkTheSane | runic power is just the standard unit power stuff, i think |
| 21:08.37 | foxlit | UNIT_RUNICPOWER |
| 21:08.38 | foxlit | teehee. |
| 21:09.01 | alestane | Or ENERGIZE, RUNIC_POWER |
| 21:09.09 | foxlit | (Seriously, though: UNIT_MANA, UNIT_ENERGY, UNIT_FOCUS, UNIT_RAGE, UNIT_RUNICPOWER should all be merged) |
| 21:09.23 | NightHawkTheSane | man, i havnt looked through my code for this in ages, practically forgot how it works. >< |
| 21:09.32 | alestane | I think there may be a UNIT_POWER event, but not sure. |
| 21:09.53 | foxlit | (How does Druids' eternal mana bar work?) |
| 21:09.55 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: i think the problem with merging them is druids. |
| 21:10.20 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: even then, just pass a resource index if it's that much of a deal. |
| 21:10.41 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: yeah.. |
| 21:10.43 | foxlit | i.e. UNIT_POWER(unit, resourceId); cur, max = UnitMana(unit, resourceId); |
| 21:11.47 | foxlit | the latter apparently exists as UnitPower |
| 21:11.56 | foxlit | [that change snuck up on me] |
| 21:15.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 21:15.52 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 21:16.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:18.10 | cog|work | ~lart C++ |
| 21:18.10 | purl | chops C++ in half with a free AOL CD |
| 21:18.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Sentri (n=sentri@tango-179.srv.hosting.fi) |
| 21:20.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-68-57-187-183.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 21:21.37 | Kraps | <startrant> |
| 21:21.38 | Kraps | hey there, DONT USE THE FUCKING HANDICAPPED STALL IF YOU ARENT HANDICAPPED |
| 21:21.40 | Kraps | and if you're too FAT to use the regular stall, LOSE SOME FUCKING WEIGHT |
| 21:21.42 | Kraps | </endrant> |
| 21:21.53 | cog|work | malformed xml imo |
| 21:22.22 | Tuller | winner |
| 21:23.35 | Kraps | this is a true story btw, theres an obese guy in the building where i work, im pretty sure the regular stall is a tight fit for him |
| 21:23.51 | Ackis | Kraps: are you handicapped? |
| 21:24.01 | Kraps | Ackis: wheelchair |
| 21:24.11 | Ackis | ah |
| 21:24.17 | Ackis | then you're allowed to bitch |
| 21:24.23 | Ackis | :D |
| 21:24.28 | Kraps | :p |
| 21:25.22 | Ackis | I like the handicapped washrooms here at work since they're segregated so I can fart in peace |
| 21:25.43 | foxlit | gr. LaTeX is clearly to convenient for writing math in. |
| 21:25.53 | foxlit | s/to/too/ |
| 21:26.36 | Kraps | ~lart Ackis |
| 21:26.36 | purl | plops Ackis into a giant vat of herring |
| 21:28.07 | Kraps | good day for the market |
| 21:28.44 | foxlit | hm, so where is this new itunes store ui :/ |
| 21:29.26 | devZero | It's there.. subtle, but there |
| 21:29.46 | devZero | meh, I wish the home share was a two way push. |
| 21:29.48 | foxlit | Only notice the new black top bar. |
| 21:30.03 | devZero | I would like to push things to the home share, instead of grabbing |
| 21:30.58 | alestane | It's really not designed around the idea of a centrallized repository. I think they assume that if you want something from machine B played on machine A, you'll share it from B. |
| 21:31.15 | devZero | yet another iTunes fail. |
| 21:31.56 | devZero | still I guess this is better than nothing |
| 21:32.05 | foxlit | Given the lack of actual DRM, it seems odd that they're restricting sharing. |
| 21:32.29 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont think its about restricting sharing, but designed around specific use cases. |
| 21:32.36 | devZero | I don't know anyone who keeps their music library across multiple computers. |
| 21:32.54 | devZero | Everyone I know has a central repository type setup. It's the logical way :/ |
| 21:33.06 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: I'd assume it takes extra code to limit the home sharing to a specific number of computers :) |
| 21:33.10 | alestane | Everyone you know is probably something of a computer geek. |
| 21:33.12 | devZero | 5 |
| 21:33.21 | devZero | alestane: you win |
| 21:33.44 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: oh, you mean the 5 computer limit? yeah, probably, and thats probably more about its ties with iTMS |
| 21:33.50 | alestane | I used to work for a guy who ran a document scanning business, converting paper documents to digital archives. |
| 21:34.02 | NightHawkTheSane | ultimately, nothing stops you from pulling the actual music and moving/copying it wherever. |
| 21:34.06 | Arrowmaster | remember the target consumer audience is actually stupid enough to buy music on their cell phones |
| 21:34.21 | alestane | Computers were the foundation of his whole business. What sort of file server do you suppose he had? |
| 21:34.31 | foxlit | A windows share. |
| 21:34.49 | devZero | Please don't say SCO :P |
| 21:35.00 | devZero | I just really wanted a reason to bring up SCO... sorry |
| 21:35.05 | Ackis | FLOPPY DRIVE |
| 21:35.08 | Ackis | flop flop floppppppy drive |
| 21:35.10 | Cide- | please say it was all printed and stored in file cabinets |
| 21:35.39 | alestane | A workgroup. There was no centralized server at all. Each machine stored the files scanned on scanners connected to it, and he shared his root drives for when he needed to move files between machines. |
| 21:35.56 | devZero | ugh |
| 21:35.59 | foxlit | declares himself the winner. |
| 21:36.17 | Ackis | is on a work group with a file server! wheeeee |
| 21:36.21 | alestane | Every one of his machines was running whichever OS it shipped with at the store, which meant Windows ME in the case of his laptop. |
| 21:36.29 | devZero | ew |
| 21:36.36 | Ackis | windows me > macs |
| 21:36.47 | Ackis | oh yes... I went there |
| 21:36.56 | alestane | Them's fighting words. |
| 21:36.57 | devZero | gives Ackis a cookie |
| 21:37.26 | alestane | Your opponent will be this rabid pain-maddened bear. Enjoy. |
| 21:37.45 | foxlit | For all the bad publicity ME has been getting, I haven't actually had any problems with it in the short span of its existence. |
| 21:37.49 | Arrowmaster | i have a 4.6 terabyte raid array shared on a workgroup |
| 21:37.49 | Ackis | mauls the bear and gives it even more rabies! |
| 21:37.51 | devZero | anyone planning on watching "The Cleveland Show"? |
| 21:38.08 | Ackis | foxlit: ME worked for me as well, I had no issues with it |
| 21:38.10 | Shirik | batrick |
| 21:38.11 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 21:38.12 | Shirik | verilog is evil |
| 21:38.38 | Arrowmaster | i also had a laptop with windows ME, and didnt have any issues with it |
| 21:38.38 | roasticle | when i had ME desktop icons would randomly change |
| 21:40.01 | Kraps | what do you do if your ancient computer at work takes forever to close stuff and log off? hit the power button! |
| 21:40.26 | *** join/#wowuidev JerekDain (n=JerekDai@71-82-127-149.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 21:41.32 | Cide- | you go home? |
| 21:41.33 | kd3 | yay power blinks |
| 21:41.43 | alestane | But yeah. This was a guy who ran his own business based on computers. When he found himself short of computing power he went out to a BestBuy or CompUsa and came back with the best media-oriented PC they had, since they generally had more RAM and bigger hard disks. |
| 21:43.09 | kneeki | Any idea why, "SWING_DAMAGE" is not firing in http://pastey.net/124917 ? Everything else works just fine. |
| 21:43.43 | Kraps | DDO is F2P, so why is that a big deal? |
| 21:44.57 | Arrowmaster | DDO is? |
| 21:45.32 | Arrowmaster | im shocked it lasted this long |
| 21:45.52 | Kraps | so this means that its in decline? |
| 21:46.27 | Arrowmaster | its always been a horrible game, i dont know why anybody would play it |
| 21:47.06 | Arrowmaster | like absolute worst attempt at converting the D&D ruleset to a computer game |
| 21:47.20 | alestane | There were things about it that I liked, but they weren't enough to make it a playable game. |
| 21:48.14 | Arrowmaster | the game was completely unplayable if your class had any abilities that were limited to a certain amount of uses per day |
| 21:48.16 | KarlKFI|work | anyone have a good naming suffix for database objects other than ...DBObject? |
| 21:49.37 | Cide- | kneeki: what class? |
| 21:49.39 | Kraps | comment of the week |
| 21:49.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 21:49.47 | Kraps | "If this was implemented in WoW, it would get me back to playing. |
| 21:49.48 | Kraps | I used to raid hardcore, but couldn't stand having to farm dailies for 2 hours a day to be able to raid. If I could have bought my flasks and repair costs with real life cash, I definitely would have stayed." |
| 21:49.50 | kneeki | Cide-: Playing a deathknight atm |
| 21:50.05 | Kraps | wtf |
| 21:50.12 | mikma | kraps: real life cash? wtf? |
| 21:50.33 | Cide- | dunno |
| 21:50.36 | Cide- | off to bed. |
| 21:50.40 | Cide- | night. |
| 21:50.42 | Kraps | musta won the lottery or something |
| 21:50.43 | Cide- | spam. |
| 21:51.08 | mikma | well... blizz should give us like 10 free flasks every monts for the subscription fee |
| 21:52.49 | Adys | http://twitter.com/derrenbrown |
| 21:53.56 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/183687414 |
| 21:55.57 | mikma | adys: what's that twittah |
| 21:56.18 | Adys | derren being awesome thats what it is |
| 21:56.28 | Adys | and I cant fucking watch it |
| 21:56.31 | Adys | i hate you all, brits |
| 21:56.40 | Adys | i hate all of britain with passion for not being my home country |
| 21:57.09 | mikma | who is he |
| 21:57.23 | Adys | your new god |
| 21:57.54 | mikma | i'm atheist, i have no god |
| 21:57.58 | Adys | so is he |
| 21:58.01 | Adys | HE IS YOUR NEW GOD |
| 21:58.08 | mikma | i have no god. |
| 21:58.12 | Adys | now you do |
| 21:58.20 | mikma | nope, don't feel like it |
| 21:58.32 | mikma | having god should be some sort of |
| 21:58.40 | mikma | "HOLY FUCK I HAVE BEEN ENLIGHTED" -experience |
| 21:58.51 | Adys | then go watch the UK lottery |
| 21:58.54 | Adys | instead of being a wad. |
| 21:59.00 | mikma | link me |
| 21:59.13 | mikma | don't have uk channel near me |
| 21:59.23 | Adys | http://uknationallotterydraw.com |
| 21:59.34 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 21:59.38 | foxlit | invalid host. |
| 21:59.43 | mikma | Firefox can't find the server at www.uknationallotterydraw.com. |
| 21:59.46 | Adys | wtf |
| 21:59.46 | mikma | is that a bad thing? |
| 21:59.51 | Adys | uknationallottery exists |
| 21:59.55 | foxlit | And his blog is timing out,. |
| 21:59.58 | mikma | ya |
| 22:00.04 | Adys | yeah his blog is being ddosd |
| 22:00.07 | foxlit | So meh. Color me unimpressed. |
| 22:00.08 | mikma | i did try his blog 3mins ago |
| 22:00.50 | Adys | <span style="color: #boring">Foxlit</span> |
| 22:01.27 | foxlit | That's an instant parse error, you. |
| 22:01.43 | foxlit | So in the absence of any other reliable source, what did he do, Adys? |
| 22:02.32 | Adys | "predicted" correctly the uk national lottery |
| 22:02.41 | Adys | I'm trying to find tonight's recording ffs |
| 22:03.11 | mikma | so people who went with his line got.. 2 pounds? |
| 22:03.24 | Adys | he did it late enough |
| 22:03.45 | mikma | after people couldn't register their numbers? |
| 22:03.50 | Adys | ya |
| 22:03.54 | mikma | impressive |
| 22:04.33 | mikma | "C4 still won't let me buy a ticket. Everyone put poo on their doorstep please." |
| 22:04.40 | foxlit | So there's obviously some cheating going on. |
| 22:04.52 | foxlit | The question is whether it's the boring kind. |
| 22:04.54 | devZero | blah.. 200 gigs of music, and I can't find anything worth listening to today :/ |
| 22:05.00 | ScytheBlade1 | "You may have heard that we had an unannounced guest at this year's PAX, a creature of global reach and renown - H1N1, whose Gamertag is Swine Flu." |
| 22:05.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Tycho has an awesome way with words |
| 22:05.22 | mikma | devzero: philosomatika.com |
| 22:05.53 | devZero | mikma: not bad |
| 22:07.03 | mikma | devzero: i had a feeling i need some goa tonight so i tuned on 18mins ago ^^ |
| 22:10.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:13.11 | Cairenn | Lunessa: ;) |
| 22:13.16 | Lunessa | ;) |
| 22:13.34 | mikma | gas |
| 22:15.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:15.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:21.11 | Adys | Trying to find the Microsoft logo on [microsoft's] various sites is like playing "Where's Waldo" when Waldo keeps changing his shirt color and can move while you're looking for him (and sometimes he's hidden by a pop-over ad). |
| 22:26.16 | The_Worst_IRC_Ni | :( |
| 22:26.32 | Kraps | stupid limit |
| 22:27.25 | Kraps | supper teim |
| 22:29.35 | tem | well that's awesome |
| 22:29.48 | tem | I just got an MSDN AA account via my computer science major |
| 22:37.31 | Adys | tar: dbackup.tar.bz2: Cannot open: No such file or directory |
| 22:37.31 | Adys | tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now |
| 22:37.31 | Adys | tar: Child returned status 2 |
| 22:37.31 | Adys | tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors |
| 22:37.40 | Adys | wtf is wrong with tar, one message is enough |
| 22:38.49 | Lunessa | Where's Waldo - should be a game played with liquor and firearms. |
| 22:39.36 | Adys | oh god awesome |
| 22:39.42 | Adys | the events ep2 is friday |
| 22:39.49 | Adys | i thought it was next week |
| 22:40.14 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D989.flatrate.dk) |
| 22:45.43 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:45.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 22:45.56 | alestane | bbs |
| 22:45.59 | foxlit | Hm, someone flipped the iTunes 9 store switch in this region. |
| 22:46.14 | foxlit | It's now magically prettier. |
| 22:54.10 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:54.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.32 | ScytheBlade1 | http://vita.fapis.com/cake.jpg |
| 22:59.21 | alestane | Lies! |
| 22:59.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Well played |
| 23:00.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 23:00.54 | Adys | terrible |
| 23:01.36 | kd3 | yay, new ptr build. not broken in wine |
| 23:02.08 | Adys | they fixed d3d? |
| 23:02.18 | Adys | er |
| 23:02.19 | Adys | opengl |
| 23:02.20 | kd3 | s/d3d/opengl/ |
| 23:02.23 | kd3 | yes |
| 23:02.31 | Adys | that's sort of a shame |
| 23:03.13 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 23:04.49 | mikma | now make the add hardware cursor |
| 23:05.24 | kd3 | ! |
| 23:05.30 | kd3 | -MAX_BATTLEFIELD_QUEUES = 3; |
| 23:05.30 | kd3 | +MAX_BATTLEFIELD_QUEUES = 2; |
| 23:05.36 | ArrowmasterClass | dear god this computer is slow |
| 23:05.40 | mikma | wat the hell |
| 23:05.58 | ArrowmasterClass | hmm its a 3ghz P4 with 1gig ram running XPsp2.... |
| 23:06.01 | Lunessa | Watching Zero Punctuation at work is risky. |
| 23:06.05 | kd3 | queue the forums exploding... |
| 23:06.07 | kd3 | now |
| 23:06.29 | foxlit | Meh, it's fair. |
| 23:06.46 | foxlit | Wait times for battlegrounds in my battlegroup seem to be small. |
| 23:06.57 | alestane | I take it that means you can only be queued for two battlefields simultaneously? |
| 23:07.03 | kd3 | yar |
| 23:07.07 | foxlit | Worst case, you have one BG you really want to go to, and one that you'll be playing meanwhile. |
| 23:07.11 | kd3 | -ERR_BATTLEGROUND_TOO_MANY_QUEUES = "You can only be queued for 3 battles at once"; |
| 23:07.11 | kd3 | +ERR_BATTLEGROUND_TOO_MANY_QUEUES = "You can only be queued for 2 battles at once"; |
| 23:07.22 | alestane | I'm rarely even queued for one. |
| 23:07.38 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.38 | Adys | why is blizz hardcoding numbers that are available elsewhere |
| 23:08.51 | foxlit | Because that number is not available elsewhere. Next question. |
| 23:08.54 | Lopeppeppy | To make you spastic |
| 23:13.41 | Adys | ... yes it is foxlit |
| 23:13.52 | Adys | MAX_BATTLEFIELD_QUEUES = 2; |
| 23:13.52 | Adys | ERR_BATTLEGROUND_TOO_MANY_QUEUES = "You can only be queued for 2 battles at once"; |
| 23:13.55 | Adys | see the problem? |
| 23:15.41 | foxlit | Yes. That's quite some latency you have there. |
| 23:15.45 | alestane | Because they didn't want to put it through a format statement when they displayed it? |
| 23:16.39 | Lopeppeppy | Because if it's hard-coded it can't be spoofed? |
| 23:16.41 | theorbtwo | alestane: Because it makes it easier to translate, if you don't have a terribly good translation system. |
| 23:17.17 | theorbtwo | Of course, the fact that they use the digit 2 instead of the word two in english suggests they aren't overly concerned. |
| 23:17.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc7c100-46.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:22.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-89-17.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:24.21 | foxlit | Hey, win. Nested ALL/ANY conditions for playlists. Still not quite as good as tagging, but it can now at least fake it. |
| 23:26.08 | cog|work | lol... "Smith, where Jones had had 'had had', had had 'had', 'had had' had had the examiner's approval" |
| 23:26.55 | alestane | That might be funnier in context. |
| 23:26.58 | Adys | um |
| 23:27.04 | cog|work | alestane: there is no context |
| 23:27.29 | Adys | I dont see how "There is a maximum of X queues" is harder to translate than "There is a maximum of 3 queues" |
| 23:27.46 | cog|work | or it's its own context ;) It's just one of those funny examples of proper English that doesn't look so proper :P |
| 23:28.41 | foxlit | I'm somewhat doubtful about that last comma. |
| 23:28.42 | alestane | If I can parse it at all, my brain wants the third comma to be a semi-colon. |
| 23:29.01 | cog|work | agreed, but i think it's still valid |
| 23:29.16 | kd3 | oh wow |
| 23:29.29 | kd3 | pre-2.0 honor titles don't change on a faction swap |
| 23:29.36 | foxlit | Or even a full stop. |
| 23:29.40 | cog|away | has had enough |
| 23:29.45 | cog|away | ~rimshot |
| 23:29.46 | purl | ba-dum CHH |
| 23:29.53 | foxlit | kd3: That seems eternally fixable. |
| 23:35.53 | Kraps | is there a way to block specific numbers from your phone? |
| 23:38.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra_ (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 23:38.45 | NeoTron | Kraps: google phone! |
| 23:39.00 | NeoTron | sorry Google Voice |
| 23:39.27 | Lopeppeppy | And some phone carriers will also have ways you can do it. |
| 23:41.09 | foxlit | as in outgoing or incoming? |
| 23:41.17 | Kraps | incoming |
| 23:41.23 | foxlit | [It doesn't make a difference to my answer: I don't know; but you might probably want to specify it anyway] |
| 23:44.08 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:50.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@76-231-27-217.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:51.57 | ArrowmasterClass | omg this computer is fucking slow |
| 23:52.16 | ArrowmasterClass | i blame the mcafee AV |
| 23:52.45 | *** part/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@76-231-27-217.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:53.21 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 23:53.48 | Lopeppeppy | That does eat up some processing time, ArrowmasterClass. |
| 23:54.09 | ArrowmasterClass | oh heh im still proxing my web traffic through my home computer, but that still wouldnt cause the unresponsive programs |
| 23:54.28 | Lopeppeppy | Usually that's a memory issue, neh? |
| 23:54.34 | Kraps | "That is an excellent question and I'll be happy to help you with that" |
| 23:54.36 | Kraps | "Unfortunately call blocking for specific numbers is not an available service" |
| 23:54.40 | Lopeppeppy | So close some un-necessary crap. |
| 23:54.41 | Kraps | wat |
| 23:54.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 23:54.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.13 | Kraps | thank for wasting both our time Micheal |
| 23:55.31 | ArrowmasterClass | Kraps: what country are you in? |
| 23:55.57 | Kraps | the US |
| 23:56.12 | ArrowmasterClass | then they can block specific numbers |
| 23:56.22 | ArrowmasterClass | they have to be able to afaik |
| 23:56.41 | ArrowmasterClass | by law afaik |
| 23:56.58 | Kraps | Micheal from Cablevision disagrees |
| 23:57.01 | Lopeppeppy | No... the law goes the other way, there's a Do Not Call list you join, it's not up to individual carriers. |
| 23:57.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@99-57-35-65.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:57.22 | Lopeppeppy | Like someone said, sign up for Google Voice and route stuff through there, they have caller blocking. |
| 23:57.30 | Shirik | I like the service AT&T gives me |
| 23:57.47 | Kraps | Lopeppeppy: it wont mess up my current stuff? |
| 23:57.50 | Shirik | if anyone calls me with a number that CallerID can't identify, they intercept the call and ask who it is first |
| 23:58.00 | Shirik | then I get the call with info on who it is |
| 23:58.24 | ArrowmasterClass | Kraps: you get a new phone number with google voice |
| 23:58.37 | Shirik | I still don't have an invite :( |
| 23:58.39 | Lopeppeppy | I odn't know what your "current stuff" is, Kraps. |
| 23:58.48 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, did you sign up for the wait list? |
| 23:58.51 | Shirik | yes |
| 23:58.54 | Shirik | like a month ago |
| 23:59.03 | Kraps | a new number? what for? |
| 23:59.06 | ArrowmasterClass | i got an invite when it opened |
| 23:59.26 | ArrowmasterClass | but i dont use it since its not on the account i want it on |
| 23:59.26 | Lopeppeppy | Um, because it's Google Voice and not AT&T? |
| 23:59.56 | Kraps | so its a separate service? |
