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| 00:04.10 | Hirsute | ... The game just transmorgrified one of my pets into an exact copy of another one.... |
| 00:04.25 | Lopeppeppy | Is that good or bad? |
| 00:04.45 | Adys | !api MAIL_SHOW |
| 00:04.45 | lua_bot | MAIL_SHOW: Fires when the player begins interaction with a mailbox (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/events/MAIL_SHOW) |
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| 00:39.25 | foxlit | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8220220.stm |
| 00:39.28 | foxlit | Interesting image. |
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| 00:48.04 | Cloudwolf | so who all has tried the ptr? ( i havn't since a long time ago) |
| 00:50.26 | Cloudwolf | or does any one now the difficulty scale of onyxia heroic? |
| 00:51.01 | Jerub | your mum is harder. |
| 00:51.09 | bleeter | Cloudwolf: ain't been near it, tbh |
| 00:51.33 | Cloudwolf | kjust wondering if its suppsoed to be harder than nax or harder than uldaur or inbetween the two is all i realy wanted to know |
| 00:54.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (i=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 00:54.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
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| 00:54.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 00:55.18 | Shirik | rawr |
| 00:55.23 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 00:55.28 | Shirik | huggles Gryphen |
| 00:55.32 | Gryphen | huggles Shirik |
| 00:56.57 | ScytheBlade1 | SHIRIK |
| 00:57.05 | ScytheBlade1 | WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN TRYING TO SEND ME |
| 00:57.17 | Shirik | you are evil man that does not support docx |
| 00:57.33 | Cloudwolf | LOL! is your mouth unemployed? we can give it a job! |
| 00:57.37 | ScytheBlade1 | I think you have things backwards |
| 00:57.50 | Shirik | you are an evil docx that does not support man? |
| 00:57.54 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm an awesome man who refuses evil things such as docx |
| 00:58.15 | the-golem | lol |
| 00:58.24 | the-golem | docx = vomit |
| 00:58.39 | Shirik | docx is going to get Microsoft in trouble anyway |
| 00:58.50 | ScytheBlade1 | You have yet to answer my question |
| 00:59.29 | Cloudwolf | OH GOD!..... home made electric toothbrush.... its a toothbrush taped to a vibrator.... |
| 00:59.57 | Jerub | what a waste of a vibrator. |
| 01:00.15 | Cloudwolf | its just scotch tape lol |
| 01:01.02 | Cloudwolf | http://failblog.wordpress.com/files/2009/06/fail-owned-doll-pricing-fail.jpg |
| 01:05.38 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1, epic failure |
| 01:05.42 | Shirik | Request timed out. |
| 01:05.52 | ScytheBlade1 | DCC sucks, too |
| 01:05.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Send again |
| 01:05.56 | Shirik | you suck |
| 01:06.18 | Cloudwolf | http://failblog.wordpress.com/files/2009/06/fail-owned-tongue-swelling-fail.jpg |
| 01:06.28 | Cloudwolf | why doesn't fail blog hav e adirect link to thier images |
| 01:08.58 | bleeter | mmm bacon http://www.listen2unclejay.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/bacon%20bra.jpg (NSFW) |
| 01:09.22 | Cloudwolf | ewww..... |
| 01:09.27 | Cloudwolf | thats realy realy realy scary |
| 01:09.42 | Torhal | I'm not even sure tekkub would enjoy that |
| 01:11.48 | bleeter | Torhal: lol |
| 01:12.07 | Torhal | bleeter: Actually, knowing tekkub, he'd probably say "Would be better as a jock-strap." |
| 01:12.35 | Cloudwolf | lol nasty the bacon bra would be better if it was cooked |
| 01:13.01 | tekkub | you don't know me well |
| 01:13.05 | bleeter | Torhal: and cloudwolf 'ewww'd at the bra idea |
| 01:13.31 | tekkub | I don't get jock straps at all |
| 01:13.36 | Torhal | tekkub: Apparently my IRC client fails. Typing "t" and hitting TAB resulted in "the-golem". |
| 01:13.52 | Torhal | tekkub: Fine. bacon loincloth. |
| 01:14.04 | bleeter | I don't get how that image turned up as #2 on a google image search for 'round bacon' |
| 01:14.07 | tekkub | lioncloths are kinda cute |
| 01:14.19 | bleeter | and #3 are bacon watches |
| 01:14.36 | Torhal | bleeter: Watches? Somehow, I don't want to know,. |
| 01:14.40 | bleeter | http://www.mcphee.com/pixlarge/11925.jpg |
| 01:14.44 | bleeter | ITS BACON TIME |
| 01:14.52 | kd3 | is it ever not? |
| 01:14.56 | kd3 | and hrm... new PTR build |
| 01:15.46 | kd3 | ! |
| 01:15.58 | kd3 | known issues this ptr build: "A button for changing your race will appear on the character select screen." |
| 01:16.37 | Shirik | o.O |
| 01:16.43 | Shirik | does it actually work? |
| 01:18.06 | kd3 | apparently not |
| 01:18.13 | kd3 | I'm still trying to get the damn thing downloaded |
| 01:19.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 01:20.23 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/latest hurray |
| 01:21.23 | kd3 | ...lmao. 'summon reinforced thunderstrike'? |
| 01:21.29 | kd3 | is it going to be level 78? |
| 01:21.32 | bleeter | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/69541/pandaren-monk/ |
| 01:23.05 | kd3 | Shirik, now that I've got it downloaded... 'almost'. |
| 01:23.13 | kd3 | everything but the accept button after the recustomization works |
| 01:23.38 | kd3 | gnome mage -> draenei/human and I can play with all 5 of the options |
| 01:23.40 | AnduinLothar | is Onyxia revamp in 3.2.2 immediately or is it not active till nov? |
| 01:23.50 | kd3 | probably as soon as 3.2.2 lands |
| 01:24.33 | Adys | pretty sure itll be ya |
| 01:24.37 | Adys | off to bed Im dead |
| 01:24.38 | Adys | night all |
| 01:25.04 | bleeter | kd3: 'damn thing downloaded' -> still with Wine UPnP issues? |
| 01:25.16 | kd3 | nah. it just took a few minutes to get handed seeds |
| 01:25.20 | bleeter | ZOMG HAI SIXEN |
| 01:25.21 | Adys | last wine doesnt have problems |
| 01:25.26 | Adys | and yeah kd3 had the same |
| 01:25.28 | kd3 | finished in a few minutes flat once I got some |
| 01:25.35 | Sixen | hai bleet |
| 01:25.36 | Sixen | brb |
| 01:26.03 | bleeter | Adys: thanks, I haven't bothered trying recently. though I am using git in *nix, I've been on Windows for a while for the Blizzcon streams |
| 01:26.17 | Adys | well upnp isnt fixed really |
| 01:26.17 | Adys | but meh |
| 01:27.53 | Dashkal | "Many Whelps! Handle It!" |
| 01:29.51 | kd3 | wtf... 31 mouse buttons |
| 01:30.15 | Cloudwolf | MORE DOTS |
| 01:30.46 | Cloudwolf | !more dots |
| 01:30.51 | Cloudwolf | D: |
| 01:30.57 | Cloudwolf | !wiki more dots |
| 01:31.06 | Cloudwolf | err wait is it ~.... |
| 01:31.08 | kd3 | ~g more dots |
| 01:31.09 | Cloudwolf | !cookie |
| 01:31.13 | kd3 | er, sigh |
| 01:31.15 | Cloudwolf | ah it is ~ |
| 01:31.17 | kd3 | !g more dots |
| 01:31.18 | batbot | kd3: YouTube - Onyxia Wipe Animation <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04> |
| 01:31.18 | Cloudwolf | >.> shh |
| 01:32.50 | Cloudwolf | ~cookie |
| 01:35.41 | Cloudwolf | lol i would hate running iwth that asshole MORE DOTS heh |
| 01:45.10 | bleeter | HOLY SHIT I JUST PEED MY PANTS http://www.mathlete.com/portfolio/wakeNbacon.php |
| 01:45.58 | Cloudwolf | EPIC WIN |
| 01:46.55 | Jerub | have you seen the bacon flavoured lollypops yet? |
| 01:47.05 | bleeter | Jerub: WUT |
| 01:47.06 | Cloudwolf | no but i have tasted bacon salt |
| 01:47.08 | Cloudwolf | its good |
| 01:47.10 | Cloudwolf | salty but good |
| 01:47.25 | Jerub | man, you're not bacon lovers at all. |
| 01:47.29 | Jerub | you're just noobs. |
| 01:47.44 | bleeter | well I do live on the pimple at the arse end of the world |
| 01:47.51 | bleeter | takes some time for these products to reach me |
| 01:48.00 | Jerub | http://www.thegreenhead.com/2008/07/maple-bacon-flavored-lollipops.php |
| 01:48.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Relcuse (n=me@adsl-71-145-173-251.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:48.23 | Jerub | http://www.lollyphile.com/products/maple-bacon |
| 01:48.41 | Jerub | bleeter: where do you live? |
| 01:49.35 | bleeter | Jerub: about as far from anywhere as it's possible to be |
| 01:49.58 | Jerub | bleeter: man, i know dudes who spent time on the antarctic station. |
| 01:50.07 | Cloudwolf | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LESDGbLqh6k&feature=player_embedded |
| 01:50.10 | Jerub | (the australian one) |
| 01:50.26 | bleeter | Jerub: OK, I live in Australia. I'm closer to Antarctica than to Perth, Western Australia ;) |
| 01:50.36 | Jerub | heh |
| 01:50.39 | Jerub | i'm in brisbane |
| 01:50.58 | bleeter | it's a lot colder and wetter where I am ;) |
| 01:51.15 | ajmitch | bleeter: tasmania? |
| 01:51.18 | bleeter | mind you, I could probably throw rocks at the AntDiv's boat if I was so inclined |
| 01:51.38 | bleeter | so I'm not totally out in the sticks |
| 01:56.06 | Cloudwolf | i need to stop looking at fail blog and start acutaly play wow |
| 01:57.14 | Cloudwolf | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-myspace-fail.jpg |
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| 02:08.44 | ScytheBlade1 | I need a better heat sink on this |
| 02:08.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Stupid thing is running at 80C |
| 02:10.25 | Cloudwolf | btw one of hte worst things possible |
| 02:10.28 | Cloudwolf | your heatsink coming loose... |
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| 02:12.01 | industrial | 80C ouch |
| 02:16.06 | kd3 | 80c? gack |
| 02:16.20 | A-KO | yay Ikaruga fight |
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| 02:16.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 02:16.53 | Shirik | tackles Seerah |
| 02:19.34 | Seerah | huggles Shirik |
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| 02:44.03 | Cloudwolf | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/fail-owned-insect-fail.jpg?w=499&h=348 |
| 02:46.23 | Corrodias | http://io9.com/5344802/twilight-inspired-sparkle-sex-toy-heralds-the-coming-apocalypse |
| 02:47.00 | Corrodias | i call your incest with a dildo! |
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| 02:48.59 | Jerub | funny, that's what your mum said. |
| 02:49.38 | Corrodias | :D |
| 02:52.25 | Torhal | mikma: Hooker! |
| 02:54.06 | Cloudwolf | sparkley dildo ftl |
| 02:54.53 | Jerub | did you see that list of books that are more difficult to read than twilight? |
| 02:55.01 | Jerub | http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1789244 |
| 02:57.56 | Cloudwolf | did i link you guys the fail article about a boy who turned 16 and thier parents wanted to surprise him at school by sending a guy dressed in a gorilla suit to his class? they got a mix up in the order and sent a stripper in a sexy police officer outfit and she stripped infront of his entire class and then had him rub cream on her ass rofl |
| 03:00.25 | Jerub | you didn't, but i remember it, that's a classic |
| 03:00.31 | Zhinjio | so... graphics question |
| 03:00.58 | Cloudwolf | photoshop graphics wow graphics gimp graphics |
| 03:01.06 | Cloudwolf | graphic images of people dieing |
| 03:01.13 | Zhinjio | I have no issues making image with a completely transparent/completely opaque areas |
| 03:01.31 | Zhinjio | however, I'm having trouble with edges where the intent is create partial transparency |
| 03:01.36 | Zhinjio | that doesn't seem to work |
| 03:01.40 | Zhinjio | is it just me doing it wrong? |
| 03:01.57 | Cloudwolf | 1 alpha layer 2 black = draw white = dont draw grey = an inbetween |
| 03:02.10 | Cloudwolf | use a gradient |
| 03:02.18 | Cloudwolf | or a shade of grey |
| 03:02.29 | Zhinjio | hmm |
| 03:02.41 | Cloudwolf | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/fail-owned-tissue-dispenser-fail.jpg?w=500&h=399 |
| 03:02.52 | Zhinjio | I *think* what I did was equivalent to that |
| 03:02.53 | Zhinjio | namely |
| 03:03.04 | Jerub | isn't there a difference between using a single colour in the palette as a 'transparent' colour, and actually using a grpahics encoding that has the concept of an alpha channel? |
| 03:03.05 | Zhinjio | I have a black shape on a transparent background |
| 03:03.15 | Zhinjio | used a "smooth" edger to blend it into the transparent |
| 03:03.16 | Cloudwolf | background != alpha |
| 03:03.24 | Zhinjio | then created my mask from source opacity |
| 03:03.29 | Zhinjio | then saved the mask to alpha channel |
| 03:03.48 | Cloudwolf | never tried that method |
| 03:04.01 | Cloudwolf | is the alpha mask black and white? |
| 03:04.09 | Zhinjio | I suppose I could try the original image (black on white) and then create the mask from source luminance |
| 03:04.23 | Zhinjio | hmm |
| 03:04.26 | Zhinjio | I'll try that |
| 03:08.33 | Zhinjio | damnit, that had the same effect. |
| 03:09.20 | Zhinjio | either the step of creating the mask, or saving the mask to the alpha channel is messing with it |
| 03:11.31 | Cloudwolf | then try and do it by hand? |
| 03:12.05 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (n=Adium@cpe-67-9-162-75.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 03:12.40 | Zhinjio | I'm restarting to make sure its not an artifact of the original image load |
| 03:14.04 | Zhinjio | hmm |
| 03:14.08 | Zhinjio | I think maybe it worked |
| 03:14.21 | Zhinjio | it just looks sort of whitish |
| 03:14.38 | ScytheBlade1 | lua> 240/60 |
| 03:14.39 | lua_bot | ScytheBlade1: 4 |
| 03:14.44 | Zhinjio | anyway, this is good enough |
| 03:17.51 | Cloudwolf | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fail-owned-itune-nuke-fail.jpg?w=500&h=379 |
| 03:20.21 | AbsolutRayne | rofl |
| 03:20.27 | AbsolutRayne | ToC just crashed |
| 03:20.38 | Cloudwolf | trail of champions crashed O.o? |
| 03:20.41 | Jerub | AbsolutRayne: you broke it! |
| 03:21.07 | AbsolutRayne | Yeah, on my server |
| 03:21.16 | AbsolutRayne | We were on Icemaw and it just cut out like lawl |
| 03:21.20 | Jerub | we had a boss in gundrak bug and reset the other day. our tank and healer were off the platform when the lockout happened. |
| 03:21.44 | Jerub | but the tank managed to kite the boss off the platform, and as soon as that happened it all reset. weird as. |
| 03:23.42 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (i=as@69.143.90.155) |
| 03:25.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Relcuse (n=me@adsl-71-145-173-251.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:31.24 | Dagmar | Cloudwolf: Do you know *why* that passage is in there? |
| 03:31.36 | Cloudwolf | no i do not know why |
| 03:31.36 | Dagmar | William Gibson. |
| 03:32.45 | Dagmar | Sadly, he used storage of illicit data in iPods as a plot device |
| 03:32.47 | Zhinjio | well, this is about as good as I could get it |
| 03:32.48 | Zhinjio | http://geo.trippy.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2856&g2_serialNumber=1 |
| 03:32.56 | Jerub | exporting the playstation 3 to certain countries in the middle east would get you picked up by the CIA. |
| 03:33.10 | Dagmar | ...their legal team apparently decided it was plausible, which it is, but it's looney to put that in the agreement. |
| 03:33.22 | Cloudwolf | why the dragons? |
| 03:33.52 | Cloudwolf | just for looks or are they going to be for some functionality? |
| 03:33.55 | Zhinjio | hell if I know. Doing it for a friend. |
| 03:34.02 | Zhinjio | decorative, I assume |
| 03:34.03 | Cloudwolf | ah heh |
| 03:34.11 | Jerub | oh, yeah, that was 'Spook Country' |
| 03:34.14 | Jerub | I hated that book. |
| 03:34.40 | Jerub | then again, I only read william gibson so i can stop people telling me inane subplots from his novels. |
| 03:35.01 | ScytheBlade1 | lua>13*5 |
| 03:35.02 | lua_bot | ScytheBlade1: 65 |
| 03:36.48 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 03:36.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 03:45.48 | ScytheBlade1 | lua>(15.3*5)/100*(1024*6) |
| 03:45.48 | lua_bot | ScytheBlade1: 4700.16 |
| 03:47.30 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:47.47 | ScytheBlade1 | ? |
| 03:53.03 | ScytheBlade1 | lua>445/60 |
| 03:53.03 | lua_bot | ScytheBlade1: 7.4166666666667 |
| 03:53.27 | Dagmar | Whatcha doin? |
| 03:53.40 | ScytheBlade1 | a friend is abusing CPU/RAM |
| 03:54.03 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm calculating how long each round takes and how much total RAM he's munching on |
| 03:54.12 | Dagmar | Ah |
| 03:54.33 | ScytheBlade1 | 23:45 < ScytheBlade1> lua>(15.3*5)/100*(1024*6) |
| 03:54.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Was RAM :) |
| 03:54.47 | Cloudwolf | !api scale |
| 03:54.47 | lua_bot | Found 11 possible results for 'scale': GetBattlefieldMapIconScale, Frame:SetScale, Model:GetModelScale, Scale:GetScale, Scale:SetScale, Scale:SetOrigin, Model:SetModelScale, Frame:GetEffectiveScale, SetupFullscreenScale, Scale:GetOrigin, Frame:GetScale |
| 03:55.10 | Cloudwolf | meh that doesn't help me much lol |
| 03:56.37 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:56.41 | Shirik | explain rebase to me |
| 03:56.43 | ScytheBlade1 | 23:47 < ScytheBlade1> ? |
| 03:56.50 | ScytheBlade1 | rebase to you? |
| 03:56.52 | ScytheBlade1 | oh |
| 03:56.53 | ScytheBlade1 | explain |
| 03:57.14 | Ackis | when is brewfest? |
| 03:57.21 | ScytheBlade1 | git-rebase - Forward-port local commits to the updated upstream head |
| 03:57.25 | Shirik | yes ty >< |
| 03:57.28 | Shirik | I can read man pages >< |
| 03:57.55 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-rebase.html |
| 03:58.01 | ScytheBlade1 | has awesome ASCII diagrams |
| 03:58.02 | Shirik | sighs |
| 03:58.09 | ScytheBlade1 | hehe |
| 03:58.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Look at the first two under Description |
| 03:58.46 | Shirik | also, why does git have a different command for every operation |
| 03:58.49 | Shirik | instead of just one command |
| 03:58.57 | ScytheBlade1 | hm? |
| 03:59.04 | Shirik | or is that just how the man pages are written |
| 03:59.10 | ScytheBlade1 | What do you mean? |
| 03:59.22 | Shirik | git-rebase, git-clone, etc., instead of git rebase, git clone, etc. |
| 03:59.26 | ScytheBlade1 | oh |
| 03:59.29 | ScytheBlade1 | history lesson! |
| 03:59.32 | Shirik | yay |
| 03:59.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Initially git provided you with 217398172 binaries |
| 03:59.49 | ScytheBlade1 | git-rebase, git-clone, etc |
| 03:59.53 | ScytheBlade1 | and threw them all in your path |
| 03:59.59 | ScytheBlade1 | which was nasty for your path |
| 03:59.59 | Shirik | sounds like a great idea |
| 04:00.04 | Shirik | and also something like Linus would come up with |
| 04:00.07 | Shirik | please continue :) |
| 04:00.10 | ScytheBlade1 | now, just git sits in your path |
| 04:00.23 | ScytheBlade1 | but as man pages can't (I think) have spaces in their names |
| 04:00.52 | ScytheBlade1 | that stuck around |
| 04:00.53 | Shirik | why exactly was it originally made that way? |
| 04:00.53 | Shirik | is there any logical reason? |
| 04:01.02 | ScytheBlade1 | offhand, no idea, I wasn't one of the devs |
| 04:01.27 | ScytheBlade1 | and concerning rebase, really, the first two ASCII diagrams + surrounding text does a great job of explaining what it does |
| 04:01.37 | Shirik | I do have to say hg is ... interesting |
| 04:01.41 | Shirik | I can't say I like it over svn yet |
| 04:01.43 | Shirik | but it's interesting |
| 04:04.19 | Shirik | however I do have one problem with hg |
| 04:04.28 | Shirik | it's in python, and python uses it |
| 04:04.36 | Shirik | that's like two strikes right there |
| 04:04.38 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 04:06.06 | Jerub | for DVCS you have a choice between C, python, python and haskell. |
| 04:06.23 | Shirik | git is the devil |
| 04:06.27 | Shirik | so no C |
| 04:06.27 | Jerub | Shirik: Agreed. |
| 04:06.36 | Jerub | Which leaves python, python and haskell. |
| 04:06.42 | Jerub | The rocks are ganging up on the hard place :P |
| 04:06.46 | *** join/#wowuidev cyndis (i=cyndis@82-128-203-74-Korvensuora-TR1.suomi.net) |
| 04:06.47 | Shirik | you know what's interesting |
| 04:06.54 | Shirik | git is in C, hg is in python |
| 04:07.03 | Shirik | yet everything I've read suggests that hg's performance blows git away |
| 04:07.11 | ScytheBlade1 | er? |
| 04:07.14 | ScytheBlade1 | where have you read that? |
| 04:07.17 | ScytheBlade1 | also, define performance |
| 04:07.29 | Shirik | just do a google search for git vs hg :) |
| 04:07.34 | Jerub | dvcs performance isn't about execution speed. it's about not doing wasteful i/o operations |
| 04:07.37 | Shirik | network consumption, checkout time, etc. |
| 04:07.50 | Shirik | sorry |
| 04:07.53 | Shirik | I'm not used to distributed |
| 04:07.55 | Shirik | clone, not checkout |
| 04:07.59 | Jerub | whatever. |
| 04:08.17 | Jerub | i've used darcs, hg and bzr. |
| 04:08.35 | ScytheBlade1 | http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitBenchmarks |
| 04:08.39 | ScytheBlade1 | is pretty comprehensive looking |
| 04:08.55 | Shirik | that's biased imo :P |
| 04:09.13 | ScytheBlade1 | It was also the first result |
| 04:09.54 | Shirik | bleh :/ |
| 04:10.01 | Shirik | I just found something git has over hg |
| 04:10.24 | ScytheBlade1 | ? |
| 04:10.26 | Jerub | hard resets multiple times a day? |
| 04:10.38 | Shirik | fisheye does not support hg |
| 04:10.40 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 04:11.29 | Jerub | my wife used git-svn in a job 6 months ago. she would have to hard reset at least 3 times a day. |
| 04:12.02 | ScytheBlade1 | The problem there is the last four letters |
| 04:12.14 | Shirik | a day? |
| 04:12.18 | Jerub | yeah. |
| 04:12.32 | Shirik | no, I'm trying to figure out what "the last four letters" is |
| 04:12.38 | Jerub | just doing a checkout or a commit or an update would put the thing in an inconsitent state and she'd have to blow everything away. |
| 04:12.41 | Jerub | '-svn' |
| 04:13.12 | ScytheBlade1 | ^ |
| 04:13.21 | Shirik | http://jira.atlassian.com/browse/FE-530 :( |
| 04:13.24 | Shirik | Looks like not any time soon |
| 04:13.33 | Jerub | I've also seen a guy put a foot wrong in a 'this is an intro to how awesome git is' talk at a conference, and have to do a hard reset to be able to continue his presentation. |
| 04:13.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Trying to force drastically different VCSs together is always a... trick |
| 04:14.07 | Jerub | will stick to svn until the situation improves globally. |
| 04:14.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/article/dvcs-round-one-system-rule-them-all-part-3 |
| 04:14.49 | Cloudwolf | rarrrr.... thisisphotobomb has so many dicks....... |
| 04:14.53 | Ackis | so the race change on the ptr is that just race or is it faction? |
| 04:16.25 | Cloudwolf | http://thisisphotobomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/thumbs-up1.jpg |
| 04:16.27 | Cloudwolf | LOL!!! |
| 04:16.28 | kd3 | just race; it's not working at present |
| 04:16.52 | kd3 | as a gnome mage, I could swap to human or draenei |
| 04:17.13 | ScytheBlade1 | not that you'd want to |
| 04:17.26 | Ackis | kd3: ah ok, wasn't sure what it was |
| 04:18.29 | Ackis | found two sets of original/bc keys for wow.. unused |
| 04:18.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal_ (n=callahan@74-132-207-20.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 04:18.53 | Cloudwolf | why do you have 2 of those O.o |
| 04:18.57 | Ackis | i dunno |
| 04:19.01 | Ackis | just found them laying around lol |
| 04:19.07 | Ackis | I think there was a sale one day |
| 04:19.20 | Cloudwolf | lol give them to a friend |
| 04:19.30 | Cloudwolf | that makes no sense to me to have that many of them xD |
| 04:19.30 | Ackis | they either play wow or quit wow like me :P |
| 04:19.37 | Nechckn | auction them off to the highest bidder! Never mind this friend stuff |
| 04:19.44 | Cloudwolf | ackis which are you player or quitter? |
| 04:19.52 | Ackis | ok so I have a bid of $500 from Nechckn |
| 04:20.08 | Ackis | Cloudwolf: I'm a lover |
| 04:20.12 | Ackis | bend over |
| 04:22.13 | Cloudwolf | http://thisisphotobomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tip-tidal-wave.jpg |
| 04:22.55 | Shirik | curious ScytheBlade1 |
| 04:23.00 | Shirik | but how easy is git to use? |
| 04:23.10 | Shirik | i.e., am I forced to a CLI? |
| 04:23.19 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 04:23.23 | ScytheBlade1 | mgitsys or msysgit |
| 04:23.25 | ScytheBlade1 | one of the two |
| 04:23.38 | Shirik | seriously? |
| 04:23.40 | ScytheBlade1 | has a decent GUI, though not your precious shell extensions |
| 04:23.42 | Shirik | those are two different things? |
| 04:23.44 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 04:23.51 | ScytheBlade1 | I can't just can't remember which it is |
| 04:23.54 | Shirik | oh |
| 04:23.56 | Shirik | I was about to say... |
| 04:23.59 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 04:24.02 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne_ (n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-29.barrettxplore.com) |
| 04:24.18 | ScytheBlade1 | The git workflow is different, and yes you'll have another program open 'most of the time' |
| 04:24.24 | ScytheBlade1 | But it is riddled with keybinds |
| 04:24.36 | Shirik | what do you mean it's different? |
| 04:24.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Once I got used to it, I'd alt+tab over, hit a couple keystrokes, type a commit message, and be done with it |
| 04:24.43 | Cloudwolf | ROFLMFAO |
| 04:24.45 | Cloudwolf | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fail-owned-swimmer-trapped-fail.jpg?w=500&h=337 |
| 04:24.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Different in the sense that git is different, really |
| 04:25.04 | ScytheBlade1 | You have a section of your modified files |
| 04:25.12 | ScytheBlade1 | A section for the files going into this commit |
| 04:25.20 | ScytheBlade1 | a diff viewer, and a box for a commit message |
| 04:25.37 | Shirik | Cloudwolf... |
| 04:25.45 | Cloudwolf | i'll stop now XD |
| 04:25.54 | ScytheBlade1 | ty. |
| 04:26.17 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: I meant different from hg |
| 04:26.23 | ScytheBlade1 | oh, no idea |
| 04:26.26 | Shirik | since I've already been given something of a runthrough of the hg workflow |
| 04:26.29 | ScytheBlade1 | I have not used hg extensively |
| 04:26.33 | Shirik | bleh |
| 04:26.38 | ScytheBlade1 | As I told you |
| 04:26.58 | ScytheBlade1 | you add the files to want the index, you commit |
| 04:27.07 | Shirik | ~g asdwuilmt |
| 04:27.13 | Shirik | !g asdwuilmt |
| 04:27.13 | batbot | Shirik: no results |
| 04:27.43 | Shirik | and I can make whatever branches I want |
| 04:27.47 | Shirik | do my magical changes locally |
| 04:27.47 | ScytheBlade1 | yup |
| 04:27.53 | Shirik | pull them back in |
| 04:27.57 | Shirik | and you will never see my secret branches? |
| 04:28.01 | ScytheBlade1 | nope |
| 04:28.13 | Shirik | I really wish English were more like French where there's two "no"s |
| 04:28.18 | Shirik | er, two "yes"es |
| 04:28.29 | Shirik | well, a "no" a "yes" and a "noyes" |
| 04:28.40 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 04:28.46 | Shirik | what does "nope" mean |
| 04:28.50 | Shirik | no you won't see them? |
| 04:28.56 | Shirik | or no I can't do that |
| 04:29.15 | ScytheBlade1 | I'll be able to see your commit messages and version history if you merge the branch in to another branch |
| 04:29.37 | Shirik | what if I wanted it to look seamless |
| 04:29.53 | ScytheBlade1 | But generally, people have a main, central git repo (not unlike svn), which is pushed to/pulled from |
| 04:30.00 | Shirik | Like what if we had A->B->C->{Huge knot of stuff}->D->E |
| 04:30.06 | Shirik | I can't just turn that "huge knot" into something else? |
| 04:30.11 | ScytheBlade1 | You could just do a `git diff master mybranchname` |
| 04:30.19 | ScytheBlade1 | and apply the diff to your master branch |
| 04:30.20 | ScytheBlade1 | push that |
| 04:30.29 | ScytheBlade1 | no history aside from this massive patching coming out of nowhere |
| 04:30.35 | Shirik | kik |
| 04:30.37 | Shirik | lol |
| 04:30.45 | Shirik | and people going "wtf" |
| 04:30.49 | ScytheBlade1 | (and then nuke your branch) |
| 04:30.50 | ScytheBlade1 | correct |
| 04:31.02 | Shirik | I guess really what the question is is how complicated would that knot look |
| 04:31.08 | Shirik | if someone is just curious about the master branch |
| 04:31.20 | Shirik | would it be impossible to navigate? |
| 04:31.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Define knot, I guess |
| 04:31.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Not sure what you're asking |
| 04:32.11 | Shirik | like let's say you made revision C |
| 04:32.23 | Shirik | I clone that and do 50 different changes across 20 branches on my computer |
| 04:32.27 | Shirik | to implement one feature |
| 04:32.41 | Shirik | then I push that back and now we have D |
| 04:32.56 | ScytheBlade1 | It would only be as messy as you made it |
| 04:33.03 | Shirik | Is it easy to go "A->B->C->D->E" when viewing the history, wherre I can just see "D is <implemented feature X>" |
| 04:33.12 | Shirik | without bothering to look at that knot |
| 04:33.26 | ScytheBlade1 | there are several gui browsers out there that let you do that, yeah |
| 04:34.22 | ScytheBlade1 | and considering the history + commit log, assuming you wrote "Merged in feature X" |
| 04:34.41 | ScytheBlade1 | If you /want/ to make a mess of things, you can |
| 04:34.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Which is generally why people have a master repo which is controlled in terms of who can write to it |
| 04:34.57 | the-golem | are we talking about git, or hg, here? |
| 04:35.00 | ScytheBlade1 | git |
| 04:35.15 | Shirik | well we're discussing the difference |
| 04:35.22 | the-golem | k |
| 04:35.27 | ScytheBlade1 | People clone the master, go nuts |
| 04:35.43 | ScytheBlade1 | If they make a big messy pile out of it, no one cares, and hopefully they learned something about it |
| 04:36.18 | ScytheBlade1 | But ultimately they can get their repo (which is essentially a branch of the master repo) into a clean state, pull/merge in the master changes, and then push it back to the master |
| 04:36.54 | ScytheBlade1 | The huge advantage there is the part where the developer is the one who does the merging of their own code into the main repo |
| 04:38.19 | Shirik | as opposed to? |
| 04:38.44 | ScytheBlade1 | As opposed to anyone else trying |
| 04:38.58 | Shirik | I've heard this argument before, and I still don't get it |
| 04:39.13 | Shirik | in the end, someone is going to have to do the merge |
| 04:39.35 | Shirik | and that person doing the merge is going to have no idea what is on the other side of the merge, in most cases |
| 04:39.48 | Shirik | so a best guess is made on conflicts |
| 04:39.57 | Shirik | or, let's look at it from a different angle |
| 04:39.58 | ScytheBlade1 | which is exactly what this style changes |
| 04:40.07 | Shirik | how is that merging strategy different from svn's merging strategy? |
| 04:40.20 | Shirik | pull & merge from master, then push to master |
| 04:40.26 | Shirik | as opposed to svn update, resolve, commit |
| 04:40.36 | ScytheBlade1 | in that regard, not at all |
| 04:40.44 | ScytheBlade1 | It can be setup in a workflow very very very similar to SVN |
| 04:41.03 | ScytheBlade1 | (Which is why I always chuckled a bit at your 'git destroys the process' bit) |
| 04:41.29 | Shirik | it does |
| 04:41.52 | Shirik | in fact, I've already gone over some of those "features" in this discussion |
| 04:41.58 | Shirik | sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing |
| 04:42.07 | Shirik | I'm still not convinced of git being good for a corporate environment |
| 04:42.10 | ScytheBlade1 | What exaclty? (curious) |
| 04:42.37 | Shirik | the very fact that a branch can be made, a ton of changes made, and either the revision history collapsed or all the changes destroyed |
| 04:42.54 | Shirik | there is no record of those changes anywhere on the server |
| 04:43.12 | ScytheBlade1 | You can push a branch to a remote branch |
| 04:43.17 | Shirik | right |
| 04:43.38 | Shirik | however, I find the lack of record of branching to be detrimental in a corporate environment |
| 04:43.46 | Shirik | (until commit time, that is) |
| 04:44.17 | the-golem | afaik, thats only if you *want* to do it that way. If you want it to keep track of every little change you do, I'm sure you can do that too. Then again, I barely understand this stuff, so I'll shut up now. |
| 04:44.29 | ScytheBlade1 | http://git.xmms.se/ |
| 04:44.29 | the-golem | points to tekkub |
| 04:44.38 | tekkub | what? |
| 04:44.47 | tekkub | I didn't have pants on when I came in |
| 04:44.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Which is why in a lot of cases, developers push their own repos to a remote server, but not the master repo |
| 04:45.16 | Shirik | again, we're talking about two different use cases here :) |
| 04:45.28 | ScytheBlade1 | I should add that merely cloning a repo amounts to branching, period |
| 04:45.38 | Shirik | I know |
| 04:45.38 | the-golem | tekkub: I was just going to say, imho, that you'd be a good guy to go to regarding the ins and outs of git. :-) You have 8 zillion git repos. |
| 04:45.59 | Shirik | tekkub is a NE druid |
| 04:46.00 | ScytheBlade1 | True enough @ use cases |
| 04:46.01 | Shirik | I cannot trust him |
| 04:46.03 | the-golem | Plus, you work for them, or something I read. |
| 04:46.25 | ScytheBlade1 | He works for github, a commercial group who provides git hosting/support |
| 04:46.41 | Shirik | alors, there are two reasons I cannot trust him |
| 04:46.45 | tekkub | the-golem: fuck that, send them to github support |
| 04:46.51 | the-golem | ScytheBlade1: yeah that's the "them" I so vaguely referred to. |
| 04:46.56 | tekkub | then I get paid for it |
| 04:47.00 | the-golem | LOL |
| 04:47.00 | Shirik | lol |
| 04:47.23 | Shirik | some day I will convert tekkub to horde |
| 04:47.26 | tekkub | also, I am NOT a nelfruid |
| 04:47.31 | Shirik | you're not? |
| 04:47.34 | Shirik | are you sure? |
| 04:47.35 | tekkub | only beef |
| 04:47.37 | Shirik | ! |
| 04:47.40 | Shirik | I <3 you now |
| 04:47.43 | tekkub | and wolf in the future |
| 04:48.04 | Jerub | i have a balding alliance mage i need to level a little. |
| 04:48.10 | Shirik | no you don't |
| 04:48.13 | Shirik | he's better off dead |
| 04:48.13 | tekkub | then I can be a manbeartigerowl...walrus |
| 04:48.51 | tekkub | that's the beauty of worgen... I'll never have to see that horrid "I run like I have a big buttplug installed" human form |
| 04:49.12 | tekkub | unless I just want to see the nead transform animation |
| 04:49.15 | tekkub | *neat |
| 04:49.22 | Iriel | It's more like a smoky explosion |
| 04:49.25 | Iriel | at least, it was |
| 04:49.51 | Shirik | wtb true morphing graphics |
| 04:49.56 | the-golem | that would be neat |
| 04:50.04 | Shirik | like, it would be so awesome if a druid's form changing was actually dynamic |
| 04:50.04 | Zhinjio | anyone have an extra murloc marine code? *grin* |
| 04:50.06 | Shirik | instead of just a "poof" |
| 04:50.07 | the-golem | they should introduce more transformations |
| 04:50.15 | Shirik | it would also be incredibly difficult |
| 04:50.18 | Shirik | but it would be so awesome |
| 04:50.20 | Iriel | The Blizzcon build was definitely a work in progress, so who knows what the final version will be like |
| 04:50.32 | Shirik | I doubt they'll do that |
| 04:50.47 | Shirik | that's a "delighter" |
| 04:50.48 | kd3 | "You want to rescue the drowning guys? Fat chance!" |
| 04:50.50 | Shirik | not a feature |
| 04:50.52 | kd3 | grrs |
| 04:51.00 | tekkub | I wonder if they'll add druid transform animations |
| 04:51.02 | Jerub | drood confuses me. |
| 04:51.14 | tekkub | the "i fart and I'm a bear" ones are rather lacking |
| 04:51.34 | the-golem | Worgen get their own bear and cat forms ( so will trolls ) |
| 04:51.43 | Jerub | you have to click on the icons for the different forms, so swapping form mid combat is frantic mousing. |
| 04:51.50 | Jerub | hates mousing |
| 04:51.58 | Jerub | (at least without a macro/addon/whatever) |
| 04:52.03 | tekkub | they didn't promise it, but considering that they seem to have ample artists, they probably will |
| 04:52.20 | tekkub | (troll/worgen bear/cat forms that is) |
| 04:53.00 | the-golem | I hope the "bear" form is a gigantic Warg or something |
| 04:53.35 | tekkub | werebear! |
| 04:53.40 | tekkub | screw the feral bear |
| 04:53.40 | the-golem | heh |
| 04:53.55 | tekkub | give them the liger from ZG for cat |
| 04:54.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: looking like this is turning out pretty well: http://code.google.com/p/tortoisegit/ |
| 04:54.48 | the-golem | lol |
| 04:54.59 | the-golem | A gigantic Gurahl, that would be awesome |
| 04:54.59 | Shirik | why the hell is everything tortoise |
| 04:55.08 | tekkub | fuck yea, there you go, give trolls Nalorakk |
| 04:55.11 | Iriel | How about bear form being just a giant hairy human? |
| 04:55.16 | Iriel | (for worgen) |
| 04:55.26 | tekkub | the human models blow though |
| 04:56.02 | tekkub | and troll flight form can just be Jan'alai |
| 04:56.08 | Shirik | Am I the only one that doesn't like the new druid forms? |
| 04:56.17 | tekkub | which ones? |
| 04:56.20 | ScytheBlade1 | but, before I sleep, I am curious |
| 04:56.25 | Shirik | most specifically the cat ones |
| 04:56.27 | tekkub | the nelfbears have old man ear hair |
| 04:56.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: in looking at hg/git, have you seen anything you liked better than svn? |
| 04:56.55 | Shirik | merging that does not require a brick to beat your head against |
| 04:56.55 | Jerub | Shirik: I don't think they're top shit, but the purple nelf kitty and the black tauren kitty are nice imho |
| 04:57.19 | Nechckn | It's at least a start in the right direction |
| 04:57.21 | Shirik | and cleaner branching |
| 04:57.36 | Nechckn | they should add a few extras/make them available for doing truly "epic" things |
| 04:57.41 | Shirik | none of this "let's just copy a bunch of stuff elsewhere" |
| 04:57.50 | ScytheBlade1 | tagging too |
| 04:58.00 | Shirik | well in svn branching and tagging is the same operation :P |
| 04:58.00 | tekkub | svn got tags soooooooo wrong |
| 04:58.12 | tekkub | a tag should just point to a commit |
| 04:58.24 | Shirik | well it does ^_^ |
| 04:58.28 | Iriel | Well, a path and a revision. |
| 04:58.36 | Iriel | Without there being ANY chance of making a change to it |
| 04:58.49 | Iriel | I end up using path based access control to lock /tags/ once created |
| 04:58.52 | Ackis | deletes git tags all the time lol |
| 04:59.11 | Shirik | tekkub makes tags that spam my screen |
| 04:59.24 | Shirik | like every saturday or sunday or something |
| 04:59.27 | tekkub | Iriel: well, and SVN one yes |
| 04:59.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Iriel: ha, that's a pretty good idea actually |
| 04:59.35 | tekkub | a git/hg one doesn't need a path |
| 04:59.53 | tekkub | Shirik: none of that spam are tags :) |
| 04:59.56 | Shirik | o |
| 05:00.01 | tekkub | tags dont fire off hooks on github |
| 05:00.01 | Shirik | you really make that many changes? |
| 05:00.11 | *** join/#wowuidev daev`1 (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:00.11 | tekkub | tagging process, yes |
| 05:00.39 | tekkub | because I write the version into the toc, and the tagger script automatically updates shit like toc number and changelog |
| 05:00.49 | Iriel | The other tag approach is to use svn externals with fixed revision numbers, I /think/ that works |
| 05:01.08 | ScytheBlade1 | hm, dirty, but I can see that working too |
| 05:01.20 | Shirik | mmm, dangerous imo |
| 05:01.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-167-195-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:02.20 | Shirik | it can work, but it's not going to prevent commits to that branch. Users won't see the changes, but they will be there if anyone ever ends up checking out that "tag" at HEAD for some reason |
| 05:02.36 | Shirik | anyway, point is, SVN branching and tagging is fundamentally broken |
| 05:02.48 | Shirik | though they have improved merging recently, git/hg definitely have it down a lot better |
| 05:02.56 | kd3 | s/branching and tagging// |
| 05:03.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: while I can't say anything about hg, I can say that git adds several nice things (on top of proper tagging/branching/merging) that make it really nice to work with, such as archives, diffing, stashing, the staging area, and a few others I'm probably forgetting |
| 05:03.26 | Jerub | I have automated tools for my package building that deal with tags. |
| 05:03.28 | Iriel | I guess I'm going to stick with feeling that 'broken' is the wrong word'different' is the right one |
| 05:03.39 | Iriel | I've been using SVN for years in a real world environment without a single problem |
| 05:03.48 | Shirik | so have I, and I like svn |
| 05:03.57 | ScytheBlade1 | I used it for quite a while |
| 05:04.12 | Shirik | however, I have a problem with the fact that everything exists in the same location whereas, for example, perforce, puts it in a different place entirely |
| 05:04.14 | ScytheBlade1 | never stuck for whatever reason |
| 05:04.45 | Iriel | I will say I like git's approach to where it puts my version control files better than svn, but I dont view svn as broken again, just different. |
| 05:04.54 | Iriel | Both have advantages and disadvantages |
| 05:05.17 | tekkub | I view svn as doing it ass backwards :) |
| 05:05.29 | Shirik | don't get me wrong, I still dislike git, and I probably always will, if not simply because I dislike Linus |
| 05:05.30 | tekkub | not broken, just, wrong |
| 05:05.31 | ScytheBlade1 | ah, tekkub, what would we do without you |
| 05:05.41 | tekkub | Shirik: fuck linus |
| 05:06.01 | Shirik | I would prefer not to, but if you wish to that is your perogative |
| 05:06.24 | Jerub | Shirik: ... You know, I think I like you. |
| 05:06.25 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-188-150.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:06.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: I should add, then, that Linus is no longer the primary developer in any sense |
| 05:06.38 | the-golem | tekkub does penguins? |
| 05:06.45 | ScytheBlade1 | It may still be his lovechild, but it is maintained by someone else |
| 05:06.51 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: The same argument is made about the Linux kernel |
| 05:06.55 | the-golem | lolwut? :P |
| 05:07.01 | Shirik | however, I still think Linux is fundamentally broken |
| 05:07.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (n=Proditor@c80-217-98-61.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 05:07.09 | ScytheBlade1 | no, he pretty actively maintains the linux kernel |
| 05:07.15 | ScytheBlade1 | In fact, that's all he really does |
| 05:07.15 | tekkub | no, I couldn't stand linux long enough to make it of any use |
| 05:07.19 | Shirik | my understanding is that he actively pulls in a bunch of changes |
| 05:07.23 | Shirik | not makes his own changes |
| 05:07.24 | tekkub | having to tinker with EVERYTHING was not fun |
| 05:07.35 | ScytheBlade1 | pretty much. he's the project manager |
| 05:07.39 | tekkub | I don't like tinkering for days to get my work environment functional |
| 05:07.40 | ScytheBlade1 | git has a different project manager |
| 05:07.41 | Shirik | don't get me wrong, that's a lot of work |
| 05:07.45 | the-golem | for some people, it is :-) |
| 05:07.45 | ScytheBlade1 | (and developer) |
| 05:07.49 | Shirik | i.e., reviewing the stuff, etc. |
| 05:07.51 | ScytheBlade1 | *develoeprs |
| 05:07.54 | the-golem | tinkering |
| 05:07.55 | ScytheBlade1 | sigh |
| 05:07.56 | Shirik | but I don't consider that developing :) |
| 05:07.59 | ScytheBlade1 | **developers |
| 05:08.06 | tekkub | I like tinkering, I'm a fucking programmer |
| 05:08.16 | tekkub | I don't like when it is required to get everything to work |
| 05:08.20 | the-golem | That's why I use LiteStep. I like to tinker with my desktop. |
| 05:08.26 | Iriel | tekkub: This is why I haven't looked back from OSX |
| 05:08.36 | tekkub | that takes tinkering from a fun pasttime to full time work |
| 05:08.42 | Iriel | though in fairness, linux has been stable enough for serious use as long as you can avoid the bleeding edge for quite some time |
| 05:08.43 | tekkub | Iriel: indeed |
| 05:08.51 | kd3 | looks at his pretty hacked up DE |
| 05:08.52 | the-golem | does OSX have an OEM version? |
| 05:08.52 | Shirik | That's not really the problem I have with Linux |
| 05:09.00 | Shirik | I have a problem with Linux in the fact that it is way too monolithic |
| 05:09.03 | tekkub | the-golem: hackintosh |
| 05:09.07 | wsoul | NO OSX doesn't have OEM version |
| 05:09.08 | the-golem | :-( |
| 05:09.11 | tekkub | also a lot of tinkering |
| 05:09.14 | the-golem | boo |
| 05:09.19 | Iriel | If your time is worth something to you, buy a damn mac |
| 05:09.23 | tekkub | mac for work, windows for wow |
| 05:09.26 | kd3 | so... compile a stripped down kernel? |
| 05:09.28 | Iriel | Bingo |
| 05:09.34 | Shirik | uh, no |
| 05:09.34 | wsoul | 129e, 29e for those who have Leopard for the next upgrade |
| 05:09.38 | tekkub | I'm not willing to pay out the ass for hardware to run wow on |
| 05:09.41 | Shirik | that is not what monolithic means |
| 05:09.59 | the-golem | Is there any kind of decent CAD program for Mac? |
| 05:10.01 | Shirik | monolithic means for these things to work, they have to be written in kernel mode code |
| 05:10.05 | kd3 | blah. it's past bedtime. read that as something else entirely |
| 05:10.06 | tekkub | cad, lawl |
| 05:10.09 | Shirik | Which is why EVERYTHING is a kernel module |
| 05:10.16 | the-golem | not lawl :-( |
| 05:10.17 | Shirik | I find that to be broken |
| 05:10.18 | tekkub | do they still do all that dongle bullshit with cad? |
| 05:10.30 | the-golem | lol no |
| 05:10.32 | Shirik | I want something like QNX but as a GPOS |
| 05:10.37 | tekkub | I remember they did with GIS years ago when I worked for Gilpin County |
| 05:10.57 | tekkub | I think that's the only reason PC mobos still have LPT ports |
| 05:11.00 | the-golem | just a mouse |
| 05:11.05 | Shirik | non-monolithic kernel is not "no features" it's simply "we don't need all this stuff in the kernel" |
| 05:11.06 | tekkub | the dongletards never figured out USB |
| 05:11.40 | the-golem | the new thing anyway is BIM |
| 05:11.51 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: a lot of stuff has moved to userland and away from the linux kernel |
| 05:11.58 | Shirik | QNX is a true microkernel. Even the process manager is not in the kernel. The biggest piece of the kernel is the scheduler. No drivers. In fact there is no such thing as a driver in QNX |
| 05:12.01 | tekkub | BIM? |
| 05:12.07 | Shirik | A driver is an application |
| 05:12.11 | Shirik | no different from any other application |
| 05:12.14 | tekkub | that sounds like a failure sound effect for bing |
| 05:12.26 | the-golem | Business Information Modeling, iirc |
| 05:12.28 | tekkub | stupid MS, give up on your search engine, google won years ago |
| 05:12.29 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@99-57-35-45.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:12.44 | ScytheBlade1 | not just years |
| 05:12.51 | ScytheBlade1 | over a decade ago is my vote ;) |
| 05:12.58 | tekkub | a decade is years |
| 05:13.00 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: I use gentoo. I compile my kernel regularly. So I like to think I have a good bead on how many things are in the kernel. |
| 05:13.07 | Shirik | The fact that there is more than 1 page of options depresses me. |
| 05:13.16 | tekkub | Shirik: I have an xkcd for you |
| 05:13.25 | the-golem | lets you do 3d extrapolation, allowing people to do electric engineering, plumbing, etc .. all on one set of plans or something. I just heard about it today really. (first day of school) |
| 05:13.25 | Shirik | I know where this is going |
| 05:13.36 | ScytheBlade1 | doesn't, but is curious |
| 05:13.38 | tekkub | good I don't have to find it then |
| 05:14.08 | the-golem | interestingly one of the *in* programs for this is Google SketchUp. |
| 05:14.09 | tekkub | fine, fuck you ScytheBlade1 |
| 05:14.10 | tekkub | http://xkcd.com/456/ |
| 05:15.13 | Shirik | ok, I have very much headacheage so I shall return to sleep |
| 05:15.21 | Shirik | a demain, mes amis |
| 05:16.02 | the-golem | SketchUp I've heard of. I read about it like 2 weeks ago in a woodworking magazine at Home Depot. |
| 05:17.50 | tekkub | yea, google needs to kill GIS with maps and CAD with sketchup :) |
| 05:18.09 | tekkub | I never got why CAD software was treated like it was made of fucking platinum |
| 05:18.13 | Iriel | SketchUp works on OSX, too 8-) |
| 05:18.18 | Iriel | Just so you know, for when you buy your mac |
| 05:18.19 | tekkub | drafting isn't hard, CAD is just doing it in paint |
| 05:18.51 | the-golem | tekkub: tbh, I don't like 2d drafting on the effing computer. I'd rather do it by hand. |
| 05:18.56 | ZorbaBeta | hah, I just accidentally tanked twin valkyr in my solo prot gear |
| 05:19.11 | tekkub | indeed, it's funner by hand too |
| 05:19.13 | the-golem | The nice parts are portability I guess. |
| 05:19.22 | tekkub | and then you get to kill braincells when you blueprint it |
| 05:19.35 | the-golem | Why carry around a gigantic tube of rolled up paper, when it can fit on a thumbdrive |
| 05:20.05 | tekkub | thumbdrive and dongle |
| 05:20.11 | tekkub | they could combine them! |
| 05:20.15 | tekkub | BAM problem solved |
| 05:20.16 | the-golem | :-) |
| 05:20.24 | tekkub | only allow the software to run from the flash drive |
| 05:20.45 | tekkub | fuck, someone contact AutoDesk and tell them they owe me royalties |
| 05:20.51 | the-golem | lol |
| 05:21.09 | the-golem | speaking of Autodesk, they bought Maya and 3dsmax. |
| 05:21.20 | the-golem | I just found this out. I'm sure its oldnews |
| 05:22.36 | Iriel | the-golem: they bought alias in 2005 |
| 05:22.49 | the-golem | they also bought Revit around that same time, maybe earlier |
| 05:23.05 | the-golem | Alias is new to me. :-/ |
| 05:23.13 | Iriel | \2002 (Revit) |
| 05:23.19 | tekkub | I know nothing of cad or GIS in the past 10 years |
| 05:23.30 | tekkub | GIS shit was for one summer when I was in school |
| 05:23.31 | Iriel | Alias were the makers of Maya |
| 05:23.55 | tekkub | all I did all summer was fix label positions on the big book of address maps that the 911 services in the county used |
| 05:24.28 | tekkub | that was the worst peice of software I ever used, fucking google maps automatically places labels a million times better than it did |
| 05:24.36 | tekkub | and that software was fucking expensive |
| 05:24.49 | Iriel | tekkub: But YOU were cheap |
| 05:25.00 | Iriel | tekkub: So they didn't have to spend lots of money writing software for placement |
| 05:25.03 | tekkub | $14/hr for an "intern" |
| 05:25.11 | tekkub | plus it was the gov't |
| 05:25.25 | Iriel | Gah, that's almost what my starting rate was when I moved to this country to work full time. |
| 05:25.26 | tekkub | in one of two counties in CO that allows gambling |
| 05:25.43 | tekkub | they had plenty of money :) |
| 05:28.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal- (n=callahan@74.132.207.20) |
| 05:28.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 05:29.36 | Synpra | pokes Dolby |
| 05:29.56 | Dolby | how rude |
| 05:30.03 | Synpra | It's Jason |
| 05:30.11 | Synpra | setting April up with IRC |
| 05:30.28 | Dolby | ah |
| 05:30.35 | Dolby | Hi April |
| 05:31.30 | Cairenn | April! |
| 05:31.43 | Cairenn | huggles April |
| 05:32.42 | Synpra | hugs Cairenn |
| 05:36.51 | Nechckn | ted kennedy died from that crazy brain cancer crap... |
| 05:37.30 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 05:38.04 | Iriel | I just saw that news pop up too |
| 05:38.28 | Nechckn | some sorry stuff. Man, I'm happy to be relatively unknown this year! |
| 05:39.19 | Nechckn | It's like "If your fame level is above XX%, you best keep an eye out for the Grim Reaper". |
| 05:40.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-207-20.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 05:40.51 | Nechckn | I just wonder if the replacement process will be as murky as the Obama and Clinton slots were |
| 05:42.22 | bleeter | RIP Ted Kennedy ... few american pollies I can respect, despite their flaws.. he seemed to be one of them. |
| 05:42.37 | bleeter | Nechckn: bah you're faster.. this time |
| 05:42.47 | bleeter | Nechckn: it was the chicken burger thing that made you speed up wasn't it |
| 05:43.15 | Nechckn | it was |
| 05:43.40 | Nechckn | Made me review my life's priorities |
| 05:44.29 | Nechckn | So, now the Internet take prescedence over all else. |
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| 05:46.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c155020.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 05:47.25 | *** join/#wowuidev parovka (n=Miranda@82-100-4-187.net.maiva.cz) |
| 05:47.41 | parovka | Hello |
| 05:47.57 | parovka | Is here anybody, when know WoW API? I have small problem, i download Addon "InviteMe", but i have more exigencies. I edited and upgraded, but when somebody send me "inv" addon invite him, but it's not working all the time. When somebody leaves, addon stop working :-( + I need get the player Level, which function is on it? (UnitLevel(name) -> it is not, return 0) |
| 05:48.04 | parovka | I send the lua&toc files via pastebin, can somebody help me? |
| 05:48.23 | Nechckn | parovka you can use http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ for the two files and then, hopefully, some one will have a few to lend a hand. |
| 05:48.49 | parovka | Nechckn: thx, i use http://pastebin.cz |
| 05:48.57 | parovka | because Iam from Czech republic.. |
| 05:49.12 | Nechckn | that works too... just give the URL of the files |
| 05:50.14 | parovka | Lua files: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/123382 |
| 05:50.54 | the-golem | one problem I see is that maxLvl = 70 |
| 05:51.00 | the-golem | line 8 |
| 05:51.00 | parovka | Toc http://wowuidev.pastey.net/123383 |
| 05:51.15 | the-golem | that should be changed to 80 |
| 05:51.53 | parovka | it's not problem, change it |
| 05:53.03 | |Yssaril| | parovka: have you tried the latest version of the addon from http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/inviteme.aspx ? |
| 05:54.40 | parovka | before "InviteUnit(nam)" I try local level = UnitLevel(name), if minLvl <= level and maxLvl >= level then -> invite , but UnitLevel doesn't return level player, which whisp me "inv" |
| 05:55.09 | parovka | |Yssaril|: yes, it's original, but for my needs, i need more options -> Size of Raid, Player Limit |
| 05:55.30 | nevcairiel | UnitLevel only works for your target and players in your group. You can't easily get the level for people whispering you. You need to /who them, or add them to the friendlist, or something. |
| 05:55.34 | parovka | and message for people over Limit - raid is full |
| 05:55.44 | |Yssaril| | kk just checking :) |
| 05:56.11 | parovka | i send my "version" of this autor of original inviteme |
| 05:56.44 | erikd | do any of you guys know of a version of wow model viewer that works with the latest patch (with player models)? i'm working on a video and i'm trying to get some video of a character that i can chroma key |
| 05:56.58 | parovka | nevcairiel: can you help me with this? iam programing in Lua from yeasterday |
| 05:57.00 | parovka | :-) |
| 05:57.49 | parovka | i use wow api on wowiki... |
| 05:59.27 | parovka | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_SendWho i see this, but where is return of this function.. :-( |
| 05:59.57 | *** join/#wowuidev leizeQ (n=opera@212.89.228.195) |
| 06:00.01 | leizeQ | morning |
| 06:00.26 | the-golem | parovka: there is no return. |
| 06:00.49 | the-golem | parovka: thats basically just a script form of typing in "/who" in your chatbox |
| 06:01.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 06:03.51 | parovka | I make events (on unofficial server, but this addon is helpful for another purposes - Guild BG...), when i make event for Level limit 50-60, its peoples, which send me whisp "inv", but they are not in Level limit -> addon doesn't send them Raid Invite |
| 06:05.07 | parovka | it's bad, i need this easy tool :-( |
| 06:08.37 | nevcairiel | you shouldnt have said that, now noone is talking to you anymore =P |
| 06:09.53 | Fisker | slaps nevcairiel around a bit with a large trout |
| 06:09.54 | the-golem | parovka: I think you want this: http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetWhoInfo |
| 06:11.56 | the-golem | combined with that SendWho |
| 06:11.57 | parovka | the-golem: yes, its helpful, but where I take argumet Index? |
| 06:12.32 | the-golem | parovka: Assume you did a who query in game. |
| 06:12.33 | parovka | i need One Number = player level |
| 06:12.54 | the-golem | you get a list of people, sorted alphabetical by default i think |
| 06:13.04 | parovka | for 40 people at a time? |
| 06:13.26 | the-golem | parovka: the index is where their name falls on that who list. |
| 06:13.30 | parovka | i send /who query and i wrote index into script? or I understend :-( |
| 06:13.41 | parovka | not |
| 06:14.02 | the-golem | parovka: if you perform an exact SendWho("playername") ... then you should only net one result |
| 06:14.09 | parovka | yes |
| 06:14.28 | parovka | and then i yous GetWhoInfo..? |
| 06:14.34 | parovka | use |
| 06:14.54 | parovka | sry for my english |
| 06:14.58 | the-golem | yeah, using an index 1. I think. I'm not sure if lua tables start at one or zero |
| 06:15.07 | parovka | i test.. :-) |
| 06:15.22 | parovka | *I try it.. |
| 06:15.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c155020.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:15.48 | Jerub | unoffical server? is that possible? |
| 06:15.50 | the-golem | parovka: or, you could store the results in a table, throw the GetWhoInfo into a loop |
| 06:16.08 | the-golem | Unofficially, yes. :-) |
| 06:16.25 | the-golem | IS SEKRIT. NO TELL!!1! |
| 06:17.26 | the-golem | parovka: I only vaguely know what to do. |
| 06:17.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:18.06 | the-golem | Hmmm. |
| 06:18.40 | parovka | Jerub: yes it is |
| 06:19.08 | Cairenn|afk | Jerub: private servers, against Blizzard rules, and as such: NOT SUPPORTED IN THIS CHANNEL |
| 06:19.17 | parovka | iam not good in english... |
| 06:19.29 | the-golem | You might, MAYBE, be able to do it like GetWhoInfo(SendWho(n-\"<char_name>\") |
| 06:19.45 | parovka | Cairenn|afk: I not need support with PRIVATE SERVER, but with ADDON!... |
| 06:19.54 | parovka | *support = help |
| 06:20.00 | Cairenn|afk | for a private server |
| 06:20.13 | parovka | This addon can be use on Official Server... |
| 06:20.24 | Arrowmaster | so work on it on an official server |
| 06:20.26 | the-golem | parovka: you shouldn't have mentioned that. It's not legal, private servers. |
| 06:20.35 | Cairenn|afk | should have left your private server out of it then |
| 06:20.52 | Arrowmaster | we wont help you since private servers dont behave the same way as the official servers, so we CANT help you |
| 06:21.02 | the-golem | deftly erases "|afk" |
| 06:21.08 | Jerub | hey wow, i think i just discovered a sore point. |
| 06:21.18 | Jerub | remembers the time he referred to 'DRM' as 'damage' in a mac channel. |
| 06:21.34 | the-golem | Jerub: do you always talk to your WoW? |
| 06:21.40 | Jerub | the-golem: don't you? |
| 06:21.59 | the-golem | Sure, sure. We aren't on a firstname basis though. |
| 06:22.01 | Cairenn|afk | Jerub: it has nothing to do with whether it's a sore point or not, it has to do entirely with the fact that we are official fan sites and as such can't support them |
| 06:22.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 06:22.27 | Jerub | Cairenn|afk: at least that's a coherant reason. |
| 06:22.46 | Jerub | i'd love to actually see some documentation about it so i understand the issues involved though. |
| 06:22.58 | parovka | GetWhoInfo(SendWho(n-\"<char_name>\") - this works, only, if SendWho returns index |
| 06:23.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 06:23.56 | the-golem | parovka: quote "This returns up to 50 apparently-random players, throughout the world, as if you had simply typed "/who" into the chat frame" |
| 06:24.11 | the-golem | idk if that means it toggles the window and displays the list .. or what |
| 06:24.36 | parovka | I try.. |
| 06:24.51 | Cairenn|afk | Jerub: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/eula.html 2. Additional License Limitations, g. Facilitate ... |
| 06:26.11 | parovka | Its some debugger for this? |
| 06:26.17 | parovka | for lua?... |
| 06:26.46 | Cairenn|afk | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html 2. Additional License Limitations, f. facilitate ... |
| 06:27.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 06:28.26 | Jerub | I'm no lawyer, but this EULA is a joke. |
| 06:29.23 | the-golem | Cairenn|afk: what are "matchmaking services" in 2:F |
| 06:29.24 | the-golem | er |
| 06:29.29 | the-golem | 2:E |
| 06:29.41 | the-golem | eHarmony for WoW? |
| 06:29.48 | Nechckn | It's pretty standard. And, if you have played the game, then you accepted the terms, joke or not. |
| 06:30.21 | Jerub | now checks the fansite rules. |
| 06:30.21 | parovka | i try this: charname, guildname, level, race, class, zone, classFileName = GetWhoInfo(SendWho(n-name) but addon doesn't start |
| 06:31.12 | the-golem | Jerub: its a joke to say "Don't reverse engineer our stuff and run non-legal servers"? |
| 06:31.39 | Jerub | the-golem: I think you're using words in an imprecise manner there. Non-offical servers are not illegal in any way shape or form. |
| 06:32.05 | Jerub | However, accessing a server that is not the official server causes you to be a copyright violator of the game client. |
| 06:32.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 06:33.37 | nevcairiel | the process of reverse engineering already violates the agreements, thus you already violated the copyright while producing the server |
| 06:33.49 | the-golem | Seriously. |
| 06:35.06 | Jerub | yeah, but i don't have to reverse engineer anything to run someone else's software. |
| 06:35.27 | Nechckn | Not to mention, it is the policy of the various WoW support channels to not support such activity - whether specifically illegal in a given locale, or not. |
| 06:35.39 | nevcairiel | i dunno about US laws, but software that was produced using illegal methods is also illegal to run :P |
| 06:35.47 | nevcairiel | at least here |
| 06:35.58 | Jerub | look, i'm not trying to say "you're wrong for not supporting non-blizzard servers", i'm just trying to get a clear idea of the reasons. |
| 06:36.02 | the-golem | nevcairiel: that sounds right to me. |
| 06:36.09 | Jerub | that's certainly not the case in australia. |
| 06:36.21 | Jerub | reverse engineering for the purposes of interoperability is specifically protected under law. |
| 06:36.51 | nevcairiel | its here too, but thats not the case here. Its reverse engineering to get around paying |
| 06:36.54 | the-golem | Reverse engineering a game to play for free doesn't count, I'm sure. |
| 06:37.00 | Nechckn | running "private servers" has nothing to do with interoperability, especially when most charge for access in one way or another. |
| 06:37.21 | Nechckn | or use them as bait for other malicious software insertion |
| 06:38.27 | Nechckn | I'm not sure about you, but I am pretty sure Blizz has a bigger legal department than I, so I'd not like to try mincing words with them. |
| 06:39.51 | Jerub | okay, just looked into the fansite information. one of the requirements to continue being an official fansite is that you don't encourage violation of terms of use. |
| 06:40.06 | Thunder_Child | they prolly have a very small legal department actually. one or two people. however they prolly have a large firm on retainer |
| 06:40.29 | Nechckn | Not that they, or just about any company is infallible but.. such is the environment. |
| 06:40.45 | Nechckn | Okay, Thunder_Child monetary resources to back up any such claim. better? |
| 06:40.51 | Jerub | that doesn't stop you from running a fansite that does, just stops you from running an officially recognised one. |
| 06:40.55 | Thunder_Child | indeed Nechckn |
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| 06:41.08 | Nechckn | I'm happy to meet with your stern requirements. |
| 06:41.22 | Thunder_Child | :) |
| 06:41.39 | Jerub | they can of course terminate their license to use their trademarked materials on your site, that's a reasonably serious concern. |
| 06:41.45 | Thunder_Child | though i doubt 'happy' |
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| 06:41.56 | Jerub | no logos, names, etc. |
| 06:42.08 | Thunder_Child | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large trout |
| 06:47.37 | Jerub | so, after a thorough reading, there's basically no difference between using the wow game client on an unofficial server and pirating a copy of any other single player game. |
| 06:47.40 | parovka | the-golem: thx for help, but i must go |
| 06:48.09 | Jerub | and running an unofficial server without connecting to it is entirely allowed, and using blizzard's trademarks is allowed until explictly revoked. |
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| 06:54.38 | the-golem | OH |
| 06:54.43 | the-golem | Now I know what matchmaking is |
| 06:54.53 | Grum | the making of a match! |
| 06:55.21 | the-golem | its what melds "the Game" and "the Service" |
| 06:56.11 | the-golem | Jerub: btw, your unofficial server is covered in the Terms of Use, 2E |
| 06:56.52 | haste | ~!wowalert |
| 06:56.54 | haste | ~wowalert |
| 06:56.55 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 06:58.36 | the-golem | My "special" former bro-in-law tried to get me to play on a private Lineage2 server, which required installing a "patched" Lineage 2 game client. |
| 06:59.02 | Jerub | the-golem: I don't have, nor do I intend to run, an unofficial server. |
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| 06:59.52 | the-golem | Jerub: i didn't mean "your" as in "the one that belongs to you", but as in "the one of which you were speaking" |
| 07:00.25 | the-golem | and we both know you knew that. |
| 07:00.34 | Jerub | well, maybe, but it's definately under 2G |
| 07:00.56 | the-golem | Jerub: indeed |
| 07:01.05 | Jerub | and this is all in-for-a-penny stuff. as soon as you violate the license you're violtaing the copyright on the game client. |
| 07:01.10 | the-golem | I think 2D through 2G cover it. |
| 07:01.42 | Jerub | the-golem: yeah, but running the server doesn't require a copy of the game client - therefore it's impossible to violate the copyright of it. |
| 07:01.58 | the-golem | Jerub: its proprietary |
| 07:02.11 | Jerub | if you don't have a copy of the game client this EULA is irrelevent. |
| 07:02.17 | ZorbaBeta | golem, merely being proprietary doesn't mean blizzard has full godlike control over whatever happens with it |
| 07:02.31 | ZorbaBeta | it's slowly turning that way in the US, but the US is also not the legal worldwide authority |
| 07:03.12 | ZorbaBeta | also, merely because something exists in the EULA doesn't mean it's binding. People give out and sign contracts with unenforcable terms all the time. |
| 07:03.29 | the-golem | that's not what I mean. |
| 07:04.14 | the-golem | What I'm saying is that THEIR server software is kinda only limited to them. So someone else running a server that pretends to be them... well that makes them fibbers >.< |
| 07:04.59 | the-golem | and i'm pretty sure I saw something in there about emulation of "the Service", but *shrug* |
| 07:05.03 | Jerub | the-golem: okay, i understand what you're trying to say, but provided reverse engineering is done in a country where it's not illegal to do so, blizzard has no say in anyone running a reverse engineered server. |
| 07:05.50 | Jerub | what happens when the software is illegally reverse engineered is actually something i've no clue about. |
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| 07:06.14 | Jerub | openttd is an example of a reverse engineered game in wide distribution because it was reverse engineered in sweeden. |
| 07:06.16 | Nechckn | sitting with it not connected to anything, perhaps. but how it got that way is another matter, and is when someone connects to it. |
| 07:06.31 | Jerub | yes, that person is then committing copyright infrigement. |
| 07:06.57 | Nechckn | And, again, until each portion is tested in a court with jurisdiction, it's all just pissing in the wind, anyway. |
| 07:07.08 | Jerub | the real lever that blizz has is they hvae their trademarks, and the right to revoke them at any time, and they have our accounts on their servers, which they can also revoke at any time. |
| 07:07.24 | Nechckn | If you really want to go up against the Vivendi/Blizz resources to try a point, feel free. |
| 07:07.33 | the-golem | I suppose, that if you were to reverse engineer something just for kicks and giggles, but not attempt to use it, would be "fine". |
| 07:07.57 | the-golem | w/e, I ain't no lawyer |
| 07:08.13 | Jerub | so blizz could come down, figure out who the users are and destroy their presnece on the official servers, and block anyone running a website from using any trademarked blizz material. |
| 07:08.13 | the-golem | eh, I ain't a lawyer? |
| 07:08.32 | Jerub | and that's a serious freaking threat imho. |
| 07:08.45 | Jerub | much more serious than anything legal about copyright. that's basically unenforcable. |
| 07:09.04 | Nechckn | All depends on where/who |
| 07:11.56 | Jerub | okay, you americans are screwed. |
| 07:12.02 | theorbtwo | They can't really "block anyone from running a website from using any trademarked blizz material". |
| 07:12.11 | Jerub | statory damages of up to $150,000 per program. |
| 07:12.20 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, the US copyright laws are ridiculous |
| 07:12.29 | Jerub | theorbtwo: they really can. trademark law is very clear cut. |
| 07:12.32 | theorbtwo | Nobody can stop me using the word "Blizzard". |
| 07:12.45 | theorbtwo | They can stop me from claiming that I am Blizzard. |
| 07:12.51 | ZorbaBeta | theorb, it depends on what country you're using it and what you're using it for |
| 07:12.56 | ZorbaBeta | they can certainly sue you for it |
| 07:12.58 | Jerub | theorbtwo: they can stop you from using anything associated with the blizzard brand. |
| 07:13.01 | ZorbaBeta | and if you can't afford to defend yourself, they win :P |
| 07:13.34 | the-golem | no, they can't stop you from using "blizzard" |
| 07:13.39 | theorbtwo | I'm still of the opinion that you need a case that's not meaningless on it's face for that. |
| 07:14.04 | Jerub | theorbtwo: trivial litigation for trademark happens all the time and the trademark owners win. |
| 07:14.21 | Jerub | theorbtwo: the reason for that is, if you don't protect a trademark actively, you lose the right to defend it. |
| 07:14.22 | the-golem | they can stop you from using "Blizzard®" (as in, the Blizzard branding, the stylized logo, etc) |
| 07:14.52 | theorbtwo | Jerub: Where they *are* refering to the brand in quesiton, and they are clearly saying that they don't own it? |
| 07:15.09 | Jerub | if I were going up against blizz, I would be really really freaking paranoid about using anything even remotely connected with blizzards registered trademarks. |
| 07:15.29 | the-golem | and btw |
| 07:15.38 | the-golem | I believe the official branding is http://www.teamteabag.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/blizzard-logo.gif |
| 07:15.42 | Jerub | because that's a really serious way to go bankrupt. |
| 07:15.44 | the-golem | as in, Blizzard Entertainment |
| 07:16.21 | the-golem | indeed |
| 07:16.31 | Jerub | and, again, i should be clear, I'm just exploring the issue, I'm not contemplating doing anything in violation of any agreement with blizzard entertainment. |
| 07:16.37 | the-golem | as seen here: http://www.blizzard.com/us/legalfaq.html |
| 07:16.52 | theorbtwo | The point is that if I open a web page and say "the protocol used by world of warcraft, by Bilzzard Enternatainment, is suchandsuch", they have plenty of potential cases -- but trademark isn't one of htem. |
| 07:16.56 | theorbtwo | them. |
| 07:17.13 | Dagmar | That would be a different lawsuit |
| 07:17.19 | Dagmar | ...that you would also lose. |
| 07:17.20 | theorbtwo | Trademark prevents me from using the terms "world of warcraft" and "blizzard enterntainment" to refer to completely different things. |
| 07:17.56 | the-golem | well, and claiming it as your own, but I suppose you could argue that amounds to the same thing |
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| 07:18.15 | Dagmar | Even if he didn't claim that as his own they'd pwn him on trade secrets |
| 07:18.25 | Jerub | anyway, i'm heading home, thanks for the chat. :) |
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| 07:18.49 | the-golem | Dagmar: i was speaking of the trademark, not the trade secrets |
| 07:19.03 | the-golem | but, point taken |
| 07:19.16 | theorbtwo | Right. The first judge to look at the case would say "no, I'm throwing out the case. Sue him for something else." |
| 07:19.37 | theorbtwo | I'd go bankrupt for sure, but not on a trademark case. |
| 07:20.12 | ZorbaBeta | actually, you pretty much can't sue over trade secrets in the US. that's exactly what they are - secrets - and once they're not secrets anymore, they're not protected. |
| 07:20.36 | ZorbaBeta | reverse engineering, specifically, trumps trade secrets. if you want to protect against that, you need to trademark or patent. |
| 07:21.20 | Dagmar | Reverse engineering for the purposes of compatibility or evaluating security fitness only |
| 07:21.28 | Dagmar | IIRC those are the two exemptions |
| 07:21.30 | the-golem | i'm sure their proprietary stuffs is all taken care of legally |
| 07:22.39 | the-golem | I'm sure those two excemptions (although I'm really just guessing) would be performed with the party fully aware of it. |
| 07:24.11 | ZorbaBeta | if you're hiring someone to work on your trade secret, you make 'em sign an NDA |
| 07:24.14 | the-golem | For a theoretical example, "the government" has "sanctioned hackers" that direct viruses or whatever at their security software, or whatever, seeing how vulnerable they are/are not. |
| 07:24.19 | ZorbaBeta | which is binding |
| 07:24.20 | the-golem | shuts up. |
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| 07:24.45 | ZorbaBeta | if someone just decides to reverse-engineer the formula to coca-cola, there's nothing Coke can do about it. |
| 07:25.43 | the-golem | ZorbaBeta: unless they have it patented, or whatever is applicable. |
| 07:26.03 | the-golem | I found it! ... then Coke says, yah well, we had it first. *yoink* |
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| 07:26.13 | ZorbaBeta | right. which they don't - the formula to Coke is pretty much the archetypical example of a trade secret :) |
| 07:26.28 | the-golem | COKE ZERO STOLE IT! |
| 07:27.15 | the-golem | I saw it on commercials |
| 07:27.19 | the-golem | It must me true |
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| 08:37.39 | TopTop18 | Is it possible to retrive the name of a table and assign it to a variable?(The name only) And Is it possible to name a table the same as a variable?(like set some name to a variable, then name the table after variable) |
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| 09:10.22 | mikma | torhal-: hailol |
| 09:12.39 | Grum | TopTop18: not easily; a table is a variable |
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| 09:25.04 | Torhal- | mik Whore. |
| 09:25.04 | Torhal- | mikma: :D |
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| 09:41.02 | TopTop18 | Grum, is it possible to get the name of a table? |
| 09:41.47 | Grum | yes and no, you can iterate over all values in _G and see if anything matches with your table |
| 09:41.55 | Grum | there is absolutely no way *ever* you need/want this though |
| 09:42.26 | [SW]Dodge | is it still so that suggestions should be postet in US forums instead of EU forums if possible? |
| 09:45.37 | haste | TopTop18: it's possible, but also filled with issues |
| 09:45.47 | haste | TopTop18: several variables can refer to a single table and so on |
| 09:45.50 | NiLon | TopTop18 I think what you are looking is called variable variable and it usually means that you have very bad design on code if you need it |
| 09:46.05 | haste | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:49.25 | olafski | maybe it would be better if you explain what you want to achieve toptop18, then we can suggest another way to solve it :) |
| 09:51.48 | haste | lies |
| 09:53.08 | olafski | well we can try :P |
| 09:57.53 | mikma | torhal: yes, i have modified the addon from my end, but not the lib :D |
| 10:01.23 | Torhal | mikma: Still, you're a slovenly being. |
| 10:01.26 | Torhal | :D |
| 10:02.05 | the-golem | >.< |
| 10:02.14 | the-golem | perl has those |
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| 10:02.23 | the-golem | var variables |
| 10:02.59 | olafski | php too! but it doesn't mean they are a good thing usually :P |
| 10:03.35 | mikma | torhal: :( |
| 10:03.43 | olafski | like reflection in java.. if you don't really know what you're doing you probably don't need it |
| 10:03.48 | mikma | torhal: but have any ideas what's the cause of that? |
| 10:03.51 | the-golem | there are some specific instances that they are useful, which I cannot recall, but it was explained to me once. |
| 10:04.05 | Torhal | mikma: The fact is - you're attempting to perform multiple actions which each requie a hardware event. |
| 10:04.42 | olafski | the-golem: sure but as I said it's not often.. what toptop18 wants could probably be solved with using a table to house all of his variables(?) |
| 10:04.52 | mikma | torhal: that's what i thought, cause /script AcceptBattlefieldPort(1,1) works and leaves from bg 1 queue |
| 10:05.06 | Torhal | s/requie/require/ |
| 10:05.15 | Torhal | purl: Hooker. |
| 10:05.40 | Torhal | mikma: Make menu options to individually leae queues. |
| 10:05.47 | Torhal | MotherFUCK |
| 10:06.01 | Torhal | sacrifices his keyboard to Cairenn. |
| 10:06.18 | mikma | torhal: yeah that's prolly a good idea |
| 10:07.59 | the-golem | olafski: could be. I dunno exactly what he wants. |
| 10:08.12 | Torhal | mikma: Sowwy. |
| 10:08.46 | mikma | torhal: it's np, automated stuff is always a problem ^^ |
| 10:09.27 | Torhal | mikma: s/automated stuff/Blizzard's method of execution/ |
| 10:09.46 | haste | l2 proper syntax Torhal ! |
| 10:09.52 | haste | <mikma>s/a/b/ |
| 10:09.56 | the-golem | lol |
| 10:10.01 | the-golem | var vars remind me of calculus |
| 10:10.06 | Torhal | haste: Don't make me subtitle you. |
| 10:10.23 | the-golem | Hey everyone, lets find the second derivative! Ready, Set, Go! |
| 10:10.32 | the-golem | Jerk :-( |
| 10:11.21 | mikma | haste: butomated? |
| 10:11.24 | leizeQ | is it possible to toggle the interactivity of chat frame from an addon ? |
| 10:11.49 | Torhal | leizeQ: Explain. |
| 10:12.10 | the-golem | Oh yeah. I see |
| 10:12.30 | haste | leizeQ: without knowing exactly what you mean: yes |
| 10:12.39 | haste | leizeQ: they aren't secure, so you can rape them pretty heavily |
| 10:12.52 | leizeQ | Torhal: when you right click on a chat frame tab, you have option to make it noninteractive or interactive; is it possible to toggle this from addon ? |
| 10:13.05 | haste | leizeQ: yes |
| 10:13.14 | leizeQ | great; thx |
| 10:14.31 | the-golem | olafski: here is an overly simplified example of what I was thinking of: http://perl.plover.com/varvarname.html |
| 10:15.39 | Pneumatus | doesnt perl have $$var or something to achieve that? |
| 10:15.53 | the-golem | Yeah |
| 10:15.54 | olafski | yes that's what the-golem is trying to point out I think :P |
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| 10:16.09 | the-golem | I just needed an example to prove I wasn't insane |
| 10:16.11 | the-golem | :-) |
| 10:16.42 | olafski | this kind of stuff makes me dizzy |
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| 10:19.13 | the-golem | :-( |
| 10:19.20 | the-golem | I have math on the brain |
| 10:19.36 | the-golem | I was thinking of loops |
| 10:19.50 | the-golem | and I was like, hey, thats like sigma notation! |
| 10:20.02 | olafski | :) |
| 10:20.08 | olafski | I have math on the brain too unfortunately :P |
| 10:20.10 | olafski | makes my head spin too |
| 10:20.14 | the-golem | haha |
| 10:20.32 | the-golem | I think calculus is awesome. |
| 10:20.34 | olafski | :P |
| 10:20.40 | olafski | doing my masters thesis in graph theory |
| 10:21.04 | the-golem | Its like .. all this dumb stuff I learned in trig and alg2 that I didn't get alluvasudden makes sense |
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| 10:21.57 | the-golem | olafski: you are way beyond me. I just took Calc I over the summer. |
| 10:22.33 | olafski | :) |
| 10:22.38 | olafski | I hardly remember that subject |
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| 10:24.32 | TopTop18 | I'll try and explain my addon later on, kinda busy now xD |
| 10:24.58 | olafski | :) |
| 10:25.02 | olafski | no worries |
| 10:25.10 | the-golem | idk what graph theory is anyway |
| 10:25.14 | the-golem | *wikis* |
| 10:25.37 | olafski | which part of the education are you in the-golem? |
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| 10:25.56 | the-golem | Depends. Education of what? |
| 10:27.41 | the-golem | I'm in junior college. I'm studying Architecture, but have just now enrolled in some core courses. |
| 10:28.05 | olafski | ah |
| 10:28.10 | the-golem | Wasn't sure if you meant "whats your major" or "what year of college" |
| 10:28.17 | olafski | the latter :) |
| 10:28.21 | the-golem | :-) |
| 10:28.27 | olafski | we learned about graphs in high school but it seems they don't teach that anymore.. most of my fellow students don't know what they are |
| 10:28.30 | the-golem | JC doesn't really matter |
| 10:29.28 | the-golem | I know a graph as far as cartesian coords go. |
| 10:29.59 | the-golem | This have anything to do with the "map problem?" |
| 10:30.08 | olafski | graph nodes don't have coordinates |
| 10:30.11 | olafski | they are an abstraction |
| 10:30.25 | the-golem | aka the "four color problem" |
| 10:30.29 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (i=sinus@213-238-64-229.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 10:30.32 | olafski | you can model virtually any compsci problem in a graph, as well as some math problems |
| 10:30.43 | olafski | yeah that's a basic example of a graph coloring problem :) |
| 10:32.12 | the-golem | I understand graphs as far as it pertains to architecture, in determining flow etc. vaguely |
| 10:32.57 | the-golem | That's probably altogether different. |
| 10:33.00 | olafski | a basic graph is just a collection of vertices and a collection of edges |
| 10:33.27 | olafski | if you combine that with rules to "transform" them you have a turing complete "programming" language ;) |
| 10:33.28 | the-golem | Yeah, I know that. My graph paper tells me that much :-) |
| 10:35.04 | the-golem | I suppose I understand graphs where it pertains to electronics. I was a electronic calibration/repair technician. |
| 10:35.41 | olafski | yeah those diagrams electricians use could be considered graphs |
| 10:35.57 | olafski | or the diagram at the train station that shows which stations are connected |
| 10:36.08 | the-golem | Right. |
| 10:36.26 | olafski | I'm mostly using it to show the state of a program |
| 10:36.27 | the-golem | Our RT has that. Very simple trainstation |
| 10:36.41 | olafski | and then using transformation rules to perform steps of the program |
| 10:37.02 | olafski | if you then compute the full state space that can be obtained from applying these rules you can perform model checking on the state space |
| 10:37.16 | the-golem | this thing: http://www.sacrt.com/schedules/current/maps/R507.gif |
| 10:37.26 | the-golem | Sacramento Public Transportation is fail :-( |
| 10:37.27 | olafski | yep that's one ;) |
| 10:38.16 | the-golem | olafski: you lost me with that state space stuff. |
| 10:38.26 | olafski | :) |
| 10:38.38 | olafski | suppose you have a graph G which contains some arbitrary stuff |
| 10:38.46 | the-golem | okie |
| 10:39.04 | olafski | and a rule R which says "try to find pattern A in G, then locally transform that pattern into B (by removing / adding stuff)" |
| 10:39.12 | olafski | if you apply R to G you get a different graph G' |
| 10:39.36 | olafski | or possibly different graphs G', G'', G''' etc if pattern A is found several times in G |
| 10:39.47 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 10:40.06 | olafski | so you can draw another graph (actually a transition system) which starts with G and has some transitions to G', G'', G''' |
| 10:40.21 | olafski | from these new graphs you can (could) apply the rule again if A is found in them etc |
| 10:40.32 | olafski | the resulting transition system is called a state space |
| 10:41.18 | olafski | hope I'm making some sense :P |
| 10:42.54 | the-golem | huh |
| 10:43.17 | the-golem | a transition system is a branchoff, right? |
| 10:43.39 | olafski | umm. not sure what that is :< |
| 10:43.52 | olafski | did you get the part about the graph transformation rule? |
| 10:43.56 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 10:44.16 | the-golem | I get it |
| 10:44.25 | Torhal | mikma: Problem solved, or is a blowtorch required? |
| 10:44.34 | olafski | ok. so if G can be transformed into G' by applying R, we write G --R--> G' |
| 10:44.39 | the-golem | by applying a rule to G, you get another graph, G' |
| 10:45.01 | olafski | in the transition system each node represents a graph and each edge represents a transformation |
| 10:45.17 | the-golem | Alright |
| 10:45.38 | olafski | G' could then be transformed into G'''' if rule R still matches |
| 10:45.48 | Torhal | Fisker: mikmais in dire need of Troll Intervention. |
| 10:45.55 | olafski | (note that the pattern R is looking for is a subgraph) |
| 10:46.03 | Torhal | s/mikmais/mikma/ |
| 10:46.17 | olafski | if you try to follow "all" transitions (it might be boundless, but you can hope it's not ;)) |
| 10:46.37 | Torhal | To those who care: Spelling and/or grammar are not a concern when drunk. |
| 10:46.39 | olafski | you get a transition system which shows all possible graphs that can be created with your start graph G and the rule R |
| 10:46.44 | foxlit | http://www.brothersoft.com/publisher/wow-addon.html |
| 10:46.46 | foxlit | sighs |
| 10:47.02 | olafski | :< |
| 10:47.13 | Torhal | foxlit: Old asshats are old. |
| 10:54.31 | mikma | torsker |
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| 11:16.53 | bleeter | foxlit: interesting part is, you're under wow-addon.html, and auctioneer's under nechckn.html |
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| 11:18.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 11:18.13 | Cide | hi |
| 11:18.34 | olafski | herro |
| 11:23.49 | Fisker | jnwhiteh my friend |
| 11:23.50 | Fisker | you here? |
| 11:24.21 | Fisker | then i hate you |
| 11:24.23 | bleeter | think he's moving in to his new house today, prolly afk |
| 11:24.57 | Fisker | he can't just move houses when i need him |
| 11:26.05 | bleeter | nah he was moving before then |
| 11:26.40 | Fisker | i might just kill you bleeter |
| 11:26.46 | Fisker | but only because i hate you |
| 11:26.54 | Fisker | so it's totally legit |
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| 11:44.29 | the-golem | lol |
| 11:49.55 | Torhal | Fisker: Blizzard just announced that they're nerfing you. |
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| 12:07.03 | bleeter | Fisker: I think Torhal just wtfpwned you |
| 12:17.04 | Bruners | not sure if im happy or mad about my server still being down |
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| 12:37.56 | zenzelezz | intensively snuggles Lopeppeppy |
| 12:40.36 | Lopeppeppy | Oooh. What a way to wake up, rawr! Morning, zenzelezz. |
| 12:40.58 | zenzelezz | :) |
| 12:41.55 | Lopeppeppy | What the hell. I'm trying to check the ingredients in my Dayquil... and the entire Vicks website has crashed with a mysql error. *dies laughing* |
| 12:42.31 | zenzelezz | mysql_connect() in bold? |
| 12:42.38 | Lopeppeppy | Yup. |
| 12:42.44 | zenzelezz | sighs |
| 12:43.48 | zenzelezz | obviously it's better to avoid the penalty of the @ operator on the mysql_connect call than to present the user with a proper website with an error message |
| 12:44.40 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah. Even the fail whale is better that that crap. |
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| 12:46.37 | Cruciformer | 'lo all |
| 12:46.46 | Cruciformer | can someone explain this to me: |
| 12:46.59 | Cruciformer | lua> if (true and 0) then print ("yes") end |
| 12:46.59 | lua_bot | Cruciformer: yes |
| 12:47.25 | zenzelezz | lua> if 0 then print("yes") end |
| 12:47.26 | lua_bot | zenzelezz: yes |
| 12:47.30 | olafski | lua> if 0 then print ("yes.. damn |
| 12:47.30 | lua_bot | olafski: luabot:1: unfinished string near '<eof>' |
| 12:47.41 | Cruciformer | obviously the number 0 is not evaluating as a boolean false, which is ... very odd. |
| 12:47.42 | olafski | too soon! |
| 12:47.56 | zenzelezz | IIRC, only false and nil are false |
| 12:48.36 | Cruciformer | I loved Lua up until this point. |
| 12:48.41 | Cruciformer | thats just whacked. |
| 12:49.13 | Cruciformer | first language I've ever encountered where integer 0 evaluates to boolean true |
| 12:49.26 | Elkano | lua> x = 0; if x and x~=0 then print(true) else print(false) |
| 12:49.27 | lua_bot | Elkano: luabot:1: 'end' expected near '<eof>' |
| 12:49.31 | Elkano | lua> x = 0; if x and x~=0 then print(true) else print(false) end |
| 12:49.32 | lua_bot | Elkano: false |
| 12:49.40 | Elkano | lua> x = 1; if x and x~=0 then print(true) else print(false) end |
| 12:49.40 | lua_bot | Elkano: true |
| 12:49.47 | Elkano | best you get ;) |
| 12:50.33 | Cruciformer | yeah I figured I can always change if (not variable) to if (variable == 0) but that seems so counter-intuitive |
| 12:51.03 | Cruciformer | esp when I was hoping if (not variable) would trap the "variable is nil or 0" case |
| 12:51.40 | Cruciformer | I'm sure some Lua fanboi can justify that behaviour but its just odd. No two ways about it. |
| 12:51.41 | Elkano | well, see it as: variable is set and not false |
| 12:52.02 | Elkano | and 0 is simply not false since we have a real boolean type |
| 12:52.57 | Cruciformer | yeah I get that. Like I said its just counter-intuitive if you come from just about any other programminglanguage I know of. |
| 12:53.21 | olafski | most programming languages will give you an error if you try to convert an integer to a boolean.. scripting languages don't ;) |
| 12:53.23 | Cruciformer | just took me by surprise ... time to go through my code with a fine tooth comb now |
| 12:53.54 | Cruciformer | olafski: I am not converting an integer to a boolean I am using it in a boolean truth expression |
| 12:54.03 | Cruciformer | there is a difference |
| 12:54.10 | olafski | implicitly you're casting it to a boolean |
| 12:54.12 | olafski | try it in java ;) |
| 12:54.34 | Cruciformer | you mean to tell me in java you can't if (0) then ... dead code ..? |
| 12:54.48 | olafski | don't think so |
| 12:54.58 | Wobin | http://survivingtheworld.net/Lesson428.html |
| 12:55.05 | Cruciformer | reason number 38 to hate Java: its whack with boolean truth too. |
| 12:55.47 | olafski | 14:55:05 < olafski> -exec if (0) { sysout("yep"); } |
| 12:55.47 | olafski | 14:55:05 < Suzy-chan> execPlugin/Exec.java:42: incompatible types |
| 12:55.48 | olafski | 14:55:06 < Suzy-chan> found : int |
| 12:55.48 | olafski | 14:55:06 < Suzy-chan> required: boolean |
| 12:55.55 | olafski | how so? |
| 12:55.57 | TopTop18 | Olafski, you ready? |
| 12:55.59 | olafski | boolean truth is boolean truth |
| 12:56.12 | olafski | if (X) expects X to be a boolean, nothing else |
| 12:56.24 | olafski | toptop18: sure, but I'm not the only one here.. just explain and somebody will try to make something of it :) |
| 12:56.51 | TopTop18 | Oki :D |
| 12:58.06 | Cruciformer | nah it makes sense in a twisted sort of way. reason number 934785 to like C: boolean truth works intuitively. |
| 12:58.33 | zenzelezz | I wouldn't say there's anything intuitive about "0" being false and everything else being "true" |
| 12:58.47 | zenzelezz | it's convention, but that's about it |
| 12:59.42 | olafski | intuitively is just what you're used to |
| 12:59.52 | olafski | 0 can be a valid result from some calculation |
| 13:00.04 | olafski | it's much more intuitive (to me!) to write x == 0 |
| 13:00.05 | Cruciformer | olafski: which pretty much defines the entire world view as I care about :P |
| 13:00.10 | olafski | ehh, x != 0 |
| 13:00.47 | TopTop18 | I'm trying to build an DKP manager addon. I've already did some stuff, but I'm now working on Creating and sharing the database to other guildmembers. The data will be placed in a table. That table contains tables that are named after people with dkp, those tables containthe data for that person. Is there something wrong with that already? xD |
| 13:01.04 | olafski | doesn't sound wrong to me |
| 13:02.40 | olafski | it doesn't require what you described earlier though |
| 13:02.57 | TopTop18 | But I'll need the name of the btable, so i know what person it's about and from what person I'm sending/receiving the data |
| 13:03.29 | olafski | oO |
| 13:03.38 | olafski | dkpValues["personName"] is not good enough? |
| 13:04.01 | TopTop18 | Oh lol that's so simple I didn;t thought of it xD |
| 13:04.09 | Cruciformer | TopTop18: just word of advice since I just finished writing a loot mod. using user names is a generally bad idea unless you give them some way of renaming users. if a user pays for a name change they shouldn't lose their DKP data. |
| 13:05.01 | TopTop18 | Question2: Don't I need the name of the table to look the things up? Maybe an other way to name the tables, but how as there will be a variable number of tables :S |
| 13:05.16 | olafski | same thing oO |
| 13:05.24 | olafski | put all those tables in one container table |
| 13:05.28 | olafski | e.g. nested table |
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| 13:20.00 | *** join/#wowuidev roastx (i=roasticl@CPE00265414365d-CM00159a3ad154.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:20.12 | TopTop18 | Hmm I'll try to explain it somewhat better. I've a table, DKPTable, in thi stable other tables are created with inside those tables are the date for each user/character in guild. Mu problem is how I name/create those tables inside DKPTable so I can still look them up easily and send the data easily where needed. |
| 13:21.02 | roastx | make a supertable |
| 13:21.19 | TopTop18 | Cruciformer, is there an other way to know who it's about? Think I'll ad an option to change names and merge data then |
| 13:21.58 | olafski | yeah make a supertable :) |
| 13:22.14 | mikma | local YoDawg = { TableInTable = { SoYouCanTableWhileYouTable = {} } } |
| 13:22.16 | olafski | perhaps you can make a little mockup of the data you would like to store |
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| 13:22.39 | Cruciformer | if you just have a /mod renameuser command its fine to just rename the user. For my mod where I keep careful sync I actually assign a userid, and have the name as the attribute of teh user ID, and all table indices etc use the userid not the name. |
| 13:23.02 | olafski | probably a good idea cruciformer :) |
| 13:23.45 | Cruciformer | it made so many other problems so much simpler. |
| 13:23.59 | roastx | is making a frame youve already created tabbed easy to do? |
| 13:24.37 | Cruciformer | For example the userid is always a 3-digit hex number, nothing variable about its length, so I could make a big long list of userid's simplt by concatenating them together, which reduced the amount of data I had to transmit over the addon channel. |
| 13:25.05 | TopTop18 | How does a supertable solve the problems with naming the userdata tables and looking the data up? |
| 13:25.30 | olafski | toptop18: stable["yourTable"] = { your original dkp table } |
| 13:25.38 | olafski | stable["anothertable" = { table with more data } |
| 13:25.47 | olafski | this way you won't have to do any variable name magic |
| 13:26.01 | olafski | as I said perhaps you can make a mockup of the data you want to store to make it easier to comprehend |
| 13:26.20 | roastx | it allows the quantum hydro-thermal crossover matrix to subanalyze the spectrum data of other tables, allowing for more dominant macro table functions |
| 13:26.38 | TopTop18 | Olafski, still don;t get it xD |
| 13:27.35 | olafski | make that mockup then :P |
| 13:27.37 | TopTop18 | Data I want to store are a number(the key), +/- amount of dkp(one per key) and data/time |
| 13:27.56 | olafski | so for each person a table with a number, the amount of dkp and the last update time? |
| 13:27.57 | TopTop18 | s/data/date/ |
| 13:28.33 | TopTop18 | For each person a table with multiple numbers and for every number a date/time and amount of dkp +/- |
| 13:28.50 | TopTop18 | date/time of change |
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| 13:28.59 | olafski | so that sound like a triple nested table |
| 13:29.06 | TopTop18 | And that's actually that purl worked for me :D |
| 13:29.22 | Kraps | hey guys |
| 13:29.28 | TopTop18 | Olafski I'll pastey the idea |
| 13:29.31 | TopTop18 | brb |
| 13:29.44 | Kraps | went to my first yankee game yesterday |
| 13:30.07 | Cruciformer | dkptable = { ["user1"] = { { date, 10}, { otherdate, -20}, { yetanotherdate, -50} } } |
| 13:30.57 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:31.13 | Cruciformer | if user spends dkp then table.insert (dkptable[username], {now, dkpspent }) |
| 13:31.33 | olafski | toptop18: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/123407 |
| 13:31.35 | olafski | something like that? |
| 13:35.28 | TopTop18 | http://toptop18.pastey.net/123409 |
| 13:36.44 | TopTop18 | Olafski got it right :D |
| 13:36.46 | olafski | that doesn't look like valid lua syntax |
| 13:36.54 | olafski | but it looks more or less like what I wrote |
| 13:36.59 | olafski | also like what cruciformer wrote :P |
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| 13:37.06 | TopTop18 | But the problem is I think the names of the tables me thinks |
| 13:37.08 | olafski | I was a little more verbose about it but the idea is the same |
| 13:37.15 | olafski | I really don't see that problem |
| 13:37.26 | olafski | you have only one table of which you need the "name", which is DKPTable and it's static |
| 13:37.35 | olafski | all other things are keys in the table |
| 13:37.46 | olafski | which you can get by either using player names or player ids or whatever |
| 13:39.15 | Cruciformer | TopTop18: will it help you to understand that the "name" of the table can in fact be a string, which is the user name? |
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| 13:39.36 | TopTop18 | Hmm think I got it right, I'll start coding further and see when I bump into a problem :D |
| 13:39.43 | Cruciformer | since it is just a key into the master table (called DKPtable), and the contents of that key (indexed by name) is in fact another table. |
| 13:39.58 | TopTop18 | Cruciformer, yes it does, thanks! |
| 13:39.58 | Cide | Cruciformer, why not { ["user1"] = { [date] = 10, [otherdate] = -20, [yetanotherdate] = -50 } }? |
| 13:40.19 | Cruciformer | CideL thats a valid choice too :) even more compact. |
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| 13:40.31 | TopTop18 | Cide, cause I use numbers as keys to prevent some problems |
| 13:40.40 | Cide | like? |
| 13:40.49 | olafski | cide: I'd use datetime then, not just date ;) |
| 13:41.06 | TopTop18 | Sec spitting through some logs |
| 13:41.11 | Cide | olafski, you can always modify a value if it already exists |
| 13:41.16 | Cruciformer | TopTop18: Lua sparsely populates tables, so table[1] = true, table[10000] = true does not create a table with 10000 entries in it. |
| 13:41.16 | olafski | hmyeah |
| 13:41.17 | TopTop18 | Might even be old problems xD |
| 13:41.27 | olafski | but if someone takes 2 items in 1 raid I'd say you want several entries in the table |
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| 13:41.42 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
| 13:42.01 | Cruciformer | morning kneeki |
| 13:42.12 | foxlit | http://www.wow.com/2009/08/26/blizzcon-2009-an-interview-with-vasco/#continued |
| 13:42.19 | foxlit | "Vasco and Blizzard kind of mutually." |
| 13:42.30 | foxlit | accidentally the whole thing. |
| 13:42.49 | zenzelezz | they accidentally the whole expansion! |
| 13:43.42 | foxlit | "Do they code the Authentication in that?" "They put it in the game, they do everything." |
| 13:44.14 | foxlit | I can't decide whether it was the interviewer, the interviewee, or both of them that were drunk. |
| 13:44.42 | zenzelezz | is it an interview wow.com did themselves? |
| 13:44.53 | foxlit | presumably |
| 13:45.01 | TopTop18 | Cide, so you can just have the latest number of your change, so you know what data is missing, thought it would be easier then dates/times |
| 13:45.02 | zenzelezz | that could explain some of it ;-o |
| 13:49.14 | TopTop18 | And numbers are mostly shorter and easier to maintain then dates |
| 13:49.34 | olafski | oO |
| 13:49.42 | olafski | dates are very nice to use as indices imo |
| 13:49.56 | Cide | "shorter"? |
| 13:50.39 | Cide | probably the strangest argument I've ever come across |
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| 13:51.14 | Cide | and it's not any easier to maintain |
| 13:51.19 | Cide | if not the opposite |
| 13:51.25 | zenzelezz | I felt I wasted so much space with all those 0 bits in my data, so I started just collecting the 1 bits and throwing away the rest |
| 13:51.52 | olafski | basic compression right there |
| 13:52.03 | kneeki | If I wanted to use "Interface\\GLUES\\CharacterCreate\\UI-CharacterCreate-Classes.blp" to assign a different class icon to 10 different frames, how would I do that? Show only one part of that graphic I mean |
| 13:52.21 | foxlit | ~api Texture_SetTexCoord |
| 13:52.21 | purl | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_Texture_SetTexCoord |
| 13:52.33 | kneeki | thx =) |
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| 14:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202209241.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 14:11.01 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (n=Adium@wireless-128-62-141-157.public.utexas.edu) |
| 14:11.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: ever figure out rebase? |
| 14:11.35 | Shirik | kinda |
| 14:11.39 | Shirik | I think I get it |
| 14:11.55 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/user-manual.html#using-git-rebase |
| 14:12.08 | ScytheBlade1 | found that, puts it into perfectly clear words |
| 14:12.09 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@did75-14-82-236-19-233.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:13.53 | TopTop18 | Cide and as a doublechack against failures |
| 14:14.20 | Cide | what? |
| 14:17.27 | Fisker | damn Shirik |
| 14:17.31 | Fisker | Twin Valkyrs are hard |
| 14:17.47 | Fisker | We used 5-10 seconds finding out that loot dropped from both bosses |
| 14:17.53 | Fisker | that was probably the hardest part of the fight |
| 14:20.00 | Shirik | hi Cide |
| 14:20.05 | olafski | that sounds difficult fisker :( |
| 14:20.08 | Cide | hi Shirik |
| 14:20.10 | olafski | maybe I'll actually raid tonight |
| 14:20.15 | Shirik | hi Lopeppeppy |
| 14:20.16 | olafski | to see the ikaruga bosses.. best game ever |
| 14:20.27 | foxlit | Hrm. |
| 14:20.31 | foxlit | Shadow priest levelling is odd. |
| 14:20.51 | Shirik | s/Shadow// |
| 14:21.00 | foxlit | Things tend to die with most of my dots still on them, feels like wasted mana |
| 14:21.33 | olafski | so put a few dots up and run to the next mob :) |
| 14:22.09 | foxlit | But then there are mobs flailing away at my fragile cloth armor. |
| 14:22.14 | Shirik | o.o |
| 14:22.21 | Shirik | my cable company now offers a 22mbps service |
| 14:22.34 | Shirik | I remember when I was saying my router will never have a reason to operate above 10mbps... |
| 14:22.39 | Cruciformer | still with a 128k uplink? :p |
| 14:22.58 | Shirik | lol probably |
| 14:23.01 | Shirik | they don't advertise it |
| 14:23.08 | foxlit | I think the new interesting metric is time. |
| 14:23.24 | foxlit | i.e. the time that you can use your connection at full bandwidth before being banned/throttled/denoted a pirate. |
| 14:23.59 | olafski | foxlit: you're a shadowpriest, surely you can VE through that ;) |
| 14:24.13 | foxlit | olafski: And then there's that choice. |
| 14:24.18 | foxlit | Do I even waste a GCD casting it? |
| 14:24.20 | Cruciformer | what if u r not a pirate tho and just a collector of por.... national geogaphic documentaries? |
| 14:24.37 | Cide | http://faculty.rhodes.edu/wetzel/random/mainbody.html |
| 14:24.48 | Cide | can you beat my random sequence in statistical likeliness? |
| 14:25.02 | olafski | yeah I often wonder that too foxlit |
| 14:25.04 | Cide | grep for "Type in your" |
| 14:25.22 | olafski | I usually go vampiric touch, SW:P, VE, mindblast |
| 14:25.32 | Cide | type in a sequence of "h" and "t" until the box won't accept more (100 chars) and hit OK and then analyze |
| 14:25.37 | Cide | and scroll down |
| 14:25.42 | olafski | but then at lvl 80 with some spellpower gear it's hardly necessary to cast more than 2 spells while soloing |
| 14:27.04 | foxlit | VT, SWP, MF, MB |
| 14:27.27 | olafski | or that :) |
| 14:27.38 | foxlit | But that's also uncomfortable |
| 14:27.41 | mikma | i usually got antimagicshield -> kill the priest |
| 14:27.48 | olafski | I guess with shadowfiend and dispersion, replenishment isn't really needed either |
| 14:27.55 | olafski | (when soloing) |
| 14:28.16 | foxlit | It leaves the mob with about 6 seconds to live. |
| 14:28.24 | foxlit | Which raises the question of whether another MF is useful or not. |
| 14:28.30 | Shirik | Cide: What was your result? |
| 14:28.35 | foxlit | And if it is, should it go before or after the MB? |
| 14:28.48 | Stanzilla | vt mb flay |
| 14:28.52 | Cide | 51, 45, 7, 0.57, 0.43, 0.1399 in order |
| 14:28.53 | Stanzilla | enough for most of the mobs |
| 14:29.08 | Kraps | Players of the sci-fi game EVE Online experienced another parallel yesterday between what happens in the game's virtual economy and the real-world financial woes that have hit the banking industry. EBANK -- the game's largest player-run financial entity, disclosed that they are 1.2 trillion ISK (InterStellar Kredits) in the red, and froze the accounts of all players and player organizations... |
| 14:29.10 | Kraps | ...which had invested with the bank. |
| 14:29.21 | foxlit | Stanzilla: that wouldn't kill them, though. |
| 14:29.50 | foxlit | [Or, rather, not immediately] |
| 14:30.03 | foxlit | And without SWP, you lose the MF damage buff. |
| 14:30.41 | Cide | Shirik, what was yours? |
| 14:30.56 | Shirik | horrible :P |
| 14:30.58 | Shirik | I tried to trick it |
| 14:31.04 | Shirik | it didn't take the bait |
| 14:31.38 | Cide | trick it how? :P |
| 14:31.38 | foxlit | What's the last number? |
| 14:32.08 | Cruciformer | 59 16 25 0.88 0.17 0.71 |
| 14:32.38 | Cide | longest run of 25? how statistically likely. |
| 14:32.38 | foxlit | ah, I see, that other table. |
| 14:32.59 | Shirik | prob of [H given H] = 0.49 prob of [H given T] = 0.53 trial = 2 |
| 14:33.04 | Shirik | I think that's pretty good |
| 14:33.09 | Cide | give the other values |
| 14:33.50 | Shirik | 52 54 8 0.49 0.53 -0.04 |
| 14:34.02 | Cruciformer | it was easier to hold down h than sit and type hththth :P |
| 14:34.05 | Cide | that's pretty nice |
| 14:34.15 | Shirik | My first numbers |
| 14:34.21 | Cide | Cruciformer: hththth is not very statistically likely either |
| 14:34.27 | Shirik | 51 33 8 0.69 0.31 0.379 |
| 14:34.30 | Shirik | but that was me trying to trick it |
| 14:34.57 | Cruciformer | Cide: i didnt mean that exact sequence but just randomly hitting keys |
| 14:35.55 | Shirik | I should point out this is not, in my opinion, a good test of randomness |
| 14:35.56 | Cide | 53, 49, 5, 0.56, 0.5, 0.06 |
| 14:36.20 | Cide | Shirik: it's hard to do proper analysis on 100 flips :P |
| 14:36.44 | Shirik | Well, it's flawed to base the entire analysis on H|H and H|T |
| 14:38.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin_ (n=Aelobin@81.170.17.142) |
| 14:39.04 | Cide | it also lists number of heads, number of runs and longest run |
| 14:39.28 | Shirik | I bet I can get a "perfect" result |
| 14:39.35 | Cide | I don't think the prob diff should count as the "final analysis" |
| 14:39.50 | Cide | Shirik: that's not very difficult :P |
| 14:40.05 | Cide | since you're just dealing with one sample, all it can judge is the statistical likeliness of getting such a sample |
| 14:40.19 | Shirik | there we go |
| 14:40.28 | Shirik | 51 52 7 0.5 0.5 0 |
| 14:40.44 | Shirik | But my point is, the sample is completely unrandom |
| 14:40.44 | Cide | fail |
| 14:40.46 | Shirik | any human would pick it up |
| 14:40.59 | Cide | hhtthhtt? |
| 14:41.00 | Shirik | hhhhhhhttttttthththththththhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthhtthh |
| 14:41.00 | Cide | ... |
| 14:41.12 | Cide | ah |
| 14:41.14 | Shirik | No, you have to handle the 7 run |
| 14:41.16 | Cide | ya |
| 14:41.46 | Shirik | there are true tests of statistical randomness that would catch this :P |
| 14:41.58 | Cide | definitely |
| 14:42.06 | Shirik | of course there is no perfect test |
| 14:42.13 | Lopeppeppy | I am perfect. |
| 14:42.15 | Shirik | because the definition of random implies that it must occasionally fail the test |
| 14:42.18 | Cide | but the test was more of a "can you do random if you try to do random?" |
| 14:42.31 | Cide | (most people can't) |
| 14:42.39 | Shirik | However, my earlier (-0.04 numbers) were in fact random :) |
| 14:42.53 | Cide | could be good, could be bad ;) |
| 14:43.02 | Shirik | my mind is very random |
| 14:43.11 | Shirik | and yes Lopeppeppy is perfect |
| 14:43.19 | Shirik | Cide, what do you think of git vs hg? |
| 14:43.25 | Cide | haven't used either |
| 14:43.43 | Cide | I've only used svn and bzr |
| 14:43.48 | Cide | not particularly fond of bzr |
| 14:43.58 | Cide | probably going to go back to svn |
| 14:44.15 | Cide | (manually pushing to a remote source is frickin' annoying) |
| 14:44.32 | Shirik | referring to bzr? |
| 14:44.34 | Cide | yes |
| 14:44.40 | Shirik | yeah I don't know anything about bzr |
| 14:44.58 | Cide | deployment is: bzr commit, bzr push (pushes to the remote server), ssh into remote server, bzr update |
| 14:45.04 | Cide | svn: svn commit |
| 14:45.08 | Shirik | wtf? |
| 14:45.14 | Shirik | what is the ssh part about |
| 14:45.35 | Cide | when you push it only pushes the revision, it doesn't update the checked out copy |
| 14:45.39 | Cide | in svn terms |
| 14:45.40 | Fisker | Apple store Genius finds child pornography on a Power Mac G5 |
| 14:45.50 | Cide | so you have to manually do that |
| 14:45.52 | Fisker | I wonder if he's a genius for finding CP or Genius for being a tech? |
| 14:46.08 | Shirik | uh Fisker |
| 14:46.19 | Shirik | Genius is an application |
| 14:46.20 | Cide | there's a plugin that does it for you but that first establishes the ssh connection to push, and then closes it, and then establishes it again to update |
| 14:46.27 | Cide | can't use the same connection |
| 14:46.31 | Cide | so I have to input the password twice |
| 14:46.39 | Fisker | "Snow Leopard to feature built-in malware protection" is similar to "Apple shows 2-button mouse" |
| 14:46.40 | Fisker | hoho |
| 14:46.40 | Cide | (no, it can't store it for whatever reason) |
| 14:46.44 | Fisker | aww Shirik |
| 14:46.45 | Fisker | i hate you |
| 14:46.47 | Fisker | h8 infact |
| 14:47.03 | Shirik | that is so wierd Cide |
| 14:47.09 | Shirik | and Fisker, I know you truly <3 me |
| 14:47.13 | Cide | yes |
| 14:47.24 | Cide | it's all Adys' fault for getting me to try it |
| 14:47.40 | Cide | I like the simple branching but it's not worth the hassle |
| 14:47.49 | Shirik | use hg :) |
| 14:47.55 | Cide | local commits are also nice |
| 14:48.16 | Shirik | use hg :) |
| 14:48.18 | ScytheBlade1 | whoa |
| 14:48.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik saying anything other than 'use svn' is news to me |
| 14:48.40 | Shirik | well he's talking about something that svn does poorly |
| 14:48.48 | nevcairiel | sadly someone told him about hg before he learned how awesome git is |
| 14:49.01 | Shirik | no, I don't really see a difference between hg and git right now |
| 14:49.08 | Shirik | and unfortunately I probably WILL have to choose git |
| 14:49.16 | Shirik | but I refuse to say "use git" right now |
| 14:49.37 | *** part/#wowuidev kenuvis (n=kenuvis@pD9EAE228.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:49.44 | Shirik | I haven't seen any reasonable discussion about git vs hg |
| 14:50.05 | Shirik | except "git is harder to use" and "git is [unnoticably] faster" |
| 14:50.45 | ScytheBlade1 | and the former point is largely entirely untrue, too |
| 14:50.50 | Shirik | I laughed at how those graphs you showed me last night, ScytheBlade1, kept saying "look at how git beats hg!" And I'm like "it's 20k commits and you're complaining about .1s" |
| 14:51.10 | ScytheBlade1 | good |
| 14:51.23 | ScytheBlade1 | really, good |
| 14:51.29 | Shirik | buuut |
| 14:51.35 | Shirik | git has one point up on hg |
| 14:51.41 | Shirik | fisheye supports git and not hg |
| 14:51.47 | nevcairiel | ha :P |
| 14:51.54 | ScytheBlade1 | It has another point, but it is one you hate |
| 14:52.03 | Shirik | it's made by linus? |
| 14:52.07 | Shirik | That is a negative point |
| 14:52.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Because it is linus's lovechild, many many many many others will use it for that reason, ensuring a userbase and a pretty secure future |
| 14:52.57 | Shirik | oh hg has one point against it too |
| 14:53.05 | Shirik | Python uses hg, and hg is in python |
| 14:53.15 | nevcairiel | all the python people only use hg |
| 14:53.18 | nevcairiel | they are so weird |
| 14:53.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 14:53.26 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: There's a flaw in that logic |
| 14:53.38 | Shirik | BECAUSE it is linus's lovechild, many people will use it. Also, many people will hate it. |
| 14:53.50 | Shirik | It's like turning the contrast up to max |
| 14:53.56 | Shirik | instead of this gradual shift from hate to love |
| 14:54.03 | ScytheBlade1 | kind of, yes |
| 14:54.04 | Shirik | you have a bunch of people at "hate" and a bunch of people at "love" |
| 14:54.06 | Shirik | and nothing in between |
| 14:54.18 | ScytheBlade1 | but you know it isn't going away or will suddenly lose support any time soon |
| 14:54.19 | nevcairiel | I don't care either way who wrote it |
| 14:54.22 | nevcairiel | is in between |
| 14:54.38 | Cide | so why should I use git over hg? |
| 14:54.42 | Shirik | nevcairiel is 18% gray |
| 14:54.50 | Shirik | yes, that's the question I've been trying to get from anywhere |
| 14:54.53 | Shirik | and nobody's been able to answer |
| 14:54.55 | Cide | does git even have windows support? |
| 14:54.58 | Shirik | why git over hg (or vice versa) |
| 14:55.31 | ScytheBlade1 | it has piles of windows support, now |
| 14:55.33 | nevcairiel | there are windows binaries based around mingw |
| 14:55.40 | nevcairiel | someone even made a TortoiseGit |
| 14:56.10 | nevcairiel | there is QGit (Qt based GUI) |
| 14:59.57 | Shirik | how did ScytheBlade1 make that pretty little graph? |
| 15:00.05 | ScytheBlade1 | which? |
| 15:00.18 | Shirik | I dunno a long time ago you were all like "lol try this merge with svn" |
| 15:00.29 | ScytheBlade1 | that was gitk |
| 15:00.33 | ScytheBlade1 | which qgit can do too |
| 15:00.52 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.spearce.org/2007/07/ugly-gitk.gif |
| 15:01.44 | ScytheBlade1 | http://lwn.net/images/ns/kernel/gitk.png is probably more sane, but still an extreme example |
| 15:03.42 | Shirik | btw |
| 15:03.50 | Shirik | Verilog is quite possibly the worst language I have ever encountered |
| 15:04.10 | Shirik | Any language which is capable of destroying hardware is evil |
| 15:04.53 | olafski | aren't all hardware description languages capable of that? |
| 15:05.01 | Shirik | no |
| 15:05.05 | Shirik | VHDL isn't stupid |
| 15:05.25 | Shirik | VHDL would be all "nah nah wtf are you doing nubsauce" |
| 15:05.32 | olafski | :) |
| 15:05.37 | olafski | but it can still destroy hardware can't it :( |
| 15:05.42 | Adys | [17:46:30] <+Cide> so I have to input the password twice |
| 15:05.43 | Adys | er |
| 15:05.44 | olafski | not sure.. been a while since I last used that |
| 15:05.51 | Shirik | nope |
| 15:05.55 | Adys | use ssh trusted client system |
| 15:05.55 | Shirik | anything it comes up with will be safe |
| 15:05.57 | Shirik | it may be horribly wrong |
| 15:05.59 | Adys | thats where all the awesomeness is |
| 15:06.00 | Shirik | but it will be safe |
| 15:06.03 | Cide | Adys: yep |
| 15:06.11 | Shirik | For example |
| 15:06.13 | Cide | too bad I have to input a password to use that |
| 15:06.15 | Shirik | VHDL won't let you do |
| 15:06.17 | Shirik | A <- B |
| 15:06.25 | Cide | and it won't store what keys I want to use |
| 15:06.26 | Adys | Cide: why? |
| 15:06.28 | Shirik | C <- B |
| 15:06.32 | Shirik | crap |
| 15:06.33 | Cide | so I have to input that every time I start the computer |
| 15:06.43 | Shirik | I mean, C <- A, B <- A, A <- C |
| 15:06.43 | kneeki | Has anyone setup SetTexCoord for each class and have that info laying about somewhere? I'm having a really hard time understanding how to use it =\ |
| 15:06.44 | Adys | nnnhgnn |
| 15:06.46 | Shirik | VHDL won't let you do that |
| 15:06.48 | Adys | no idea what you mean |
| 15:07.20 | Shirik | not without extra work that is |
| 15:08.57 | Adys | http://www.spearce.org/2007/07/ugly-gitk.gif |
| 15:09.04 | Adys | id like to know who the hell understands those charts |
| 15:09.58 | malreth | http://www.savagechickens.com/2009/08/spider.html |
| 15:12.12 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (n=kdtresh@76.212.99.109) |
| 15:13.25 | Shirik | okbye |
| 15:13.48 | Adys | wow |
| 15:13.50 | Adys | this is epic |
| 15:15.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Synpra (n=Synpra@75.80.16.10) |
| 15:22.49 | Adys | Cide |
| 15:22.51 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/adys/quote.png |
| 15:22.51 | Fisker | wut Adys ? |
| 15:22.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@bb116-14-20-26.singnet.com.sg) |
| 15:22.59 | Adys | this, fisker |
| 15:23.04 | Adys | flash ad |
| 15:23.06 | Adys | with SOUND. |
| 15:23.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Pharaun (n=dmoy@tempura.cs.umn.edu) |
| 15:23.59 | Zyn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpkQmCGgMus |
| 15:24.03 | Zyn | that ... is bullshit |
| 15:25.22 | Pharaun | what the hell XD |
| 15:25.57 | olafski | looks familiar :P |
| 15:26.13 | olafski | haha she's playing that with 1 finger oO |
| 15:26.50 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/08/youre_doing_it_wrong_bacon_oak.php |
| 15:26.51 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 15:27.36 | Lopeppeppy | I'm soooo hungry |
| 15:27.56 | Adys | wow mikma |
| 15:28.00 | Adys | theres this boxer ad again there |
| 15:28.03 | Adys | TWO of them |
| 15:28.04 | Adys | ffs |
| 15:28.39 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 15:30.37 | mikma | haste: http://www.geekologie.com/2009/08/1500_hours_of_lego_photography.php |
| 15:31.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Relcuse (n=me@adsl-71-145-173-251.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:32.52 | Aelobin_ | does entering a vehicle require a hardware event? |
| 15:36.13 | olafski | holy crud mikma |
| 15:36.15 | Adys | Aelobin: yes |
| 15:36.17 | olafski | that guy has too much time :P |
| 15:36.24 | Aelobin | dam :< |
| 15:36.25 | olafski | or those guys probably |
| 15:36.48 | Adys | Aelobin: anything that requires interaction with creature or object requires a hw event |
| 15:37.23 | Aelobin | hmm k |
| 15:40.57 | haste | omg old mikma :-----------------------------------D |
| 15:41.21 | *** join/#wowuidev ambethia (n=jasper@28-208.187-72.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 15:43.54 | Pharaun | Oi what's the best way to tell when a party member dies (preferrably from arbitrary distances, since close up I'm already doing a chat filter)? |
| 15:44.04 | durcyn | CLEU/UNIT_DIED |
| 15:44.23 | olafski | does that work from arbitrary distances? |
| 15:44.31 | olafski | !api UNIT_DIED |
| 15:44.31 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'UNIT_DIED'. |
| 15:44.50 | Pharaun | I can't remember, let me test that real quick :D |
| 15:45.04 | Pharaun | iirc, UNIT_DIED doesn't work from long distances, but I could be mistaken |
| 15:45.12 | durcyn | nothing works from long distances. |
| 15:45.30 | Adys | !api PARTY_MEMBERS_CHANGED |
| 15:45.30 | lua_bot | PARTY_MEMBERS_CHANGED: Fires when information about the membership of the player's party changes or becomes available (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/events/PARTY_MEMBERS_CHANGED) |
| 15:45.31 | durcyn | not without polling their unit token on an OnUpdate and checking health or UnitIsDeadOrGhost() |
| 15:45.39 | Pharaun | SHIT I was hoping that wasn't the answer |
| 15:45.44 | durcyn | you're not going to get any events if they're out of range |
| 15:45.51 | durcyn | the question is, why do you care when they're out of range |
| 15:45.52 | Adys | yes, you are |
| 15:46.04 | Adys | you'll just get them with a delay |
| 15:46.13 | Adys | the client polls itself |
| 15:47.01 | End | it's not on a short interval, of course |
| 15:47.17 | olafski | partymemberschanged seems like a good option |
| 15:47.23 | olafski | depending on how quickly you need the info I guess |
| 15:48.20 | Pharaun | party members changed doesn't do anything if someone just dies and stays in party |
| 15:49.07 | olafski | oh :< |
| 15:50.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Zeksie (n=zeksie@cpc1-nott9-0-0-cust756.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 15:50.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 15:50.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 15:50.42 | Pharaun | I'mma go figure out for sure whether or not I get events from distance |
| 15:50.48 | Pharaun | I think no, but what the hell |
| 15:50.55 | Pharaun | hearthstone is up :_) |
| 15:50.56 | olafski | I very much doubt it |
| 15:51.01 | Pharaun | yea I doubt it as well |
| 15:51.06 | olafski | you'd get the events for all players in the world then oO |
| 15:52.39 | Pharaun | ya |
| 15:52.50 | Pharaun | so the only way is to poll on onupdate? |
| 15:52.52 | Pharaun | :( |
| 15:53.11 | olafski | why do you want to know this information? |
| 15:53.19 | Pharaun | I'd like to be able to log when party members die |
| 15:53.28 | olafski | hmm |
| 15:53.31 | durcyn | yes, but if they die on another continent, does it matter |
| 15:53.50 | Pharaun | no, probably not |
| 15:53.57 | olafski | guess polling is what you need to do then.. |
| 15:54.32 | durcyn | i'd recommend that you start out with a simple combat log event handler, get that sorted, then worry about edge cases. |
| 15:54.56 | Pharaun | CLEU doesn't give me crap from hundreds of yards away :( |
| 15:55.16 | durcyn | anything that renders on your screen should deliver combat log events |
| 15:55.25 | durcyn | which as i recall is approximately 150 yards |
| 15:55.26 | Pharaun | hmm |
| 15:55.47 | nevcairiel | of course it varies on your visibility gfx settings et al |
| 15:55.49 | Pharaun | what about from outside an instance though? if someone is impatient and releases, ex |
| 15:56.08 | durcyn | if someone -else- releases, they're already dead and you already got an event |
| 15:56.13 | olafski | yer :) |
| 15:56.14 | durcyn | if -you- release, then you did it to yourself. |
| 15:56.18 | Pharaun | what if the someone is me being impatient? :D |
| 15:56.35 | olafski | what are you trying to make if i may ask? :) |
| 15:56.58 | Pharaun | At the moment I'm simply trying to log stuff, which includes parties dying in horrible fashions |
| 15:57.24 | durcyn | well, far be it for me to suggest it's the best common practice, but most addons which do that rely solely on said combat log |
| 15:57.24 | Pharaun | the overall scheme is an addon that I'll hopefully be pushing out for an NSF funded research grant on online communities |
| 15:57.43 | durcyn | with some success, i might add. |
| 15:58.17 | olafski | oO |
| 15:58.19 | Pharaun | Fair enough, I may just leave it to my existing chat filter then, since it's already being done |
| 15:58.22 | olafski | sounds ambitious |
| 15:58.44 | Pharaun | ambitious -> will crash and burn is my fear... |
| 15:58.58 | Pharaun | I'm not the stats guru on the project, but we might need at least a few hundred submitting data to make statistical significance |
| 15:58.59 | durcyn | why a chat filter? that's party-only and is a rather roundabout way of getting the event |
| 15:59.12 | Pharaun | because I'm already doing it for other functionality in the addon |
| 15:59.16 | olafski | NSF = national service framework? or national socialist front ;) |
| 15:59.22 | Pharaun | National Science Foundation |
| 15:59.33 | olafski | kay :) |
| 15:59.58 | Pharaun | someone thought it would be worth a 300~500k to research online communities, and World of Warcraft is specfiically mentioned in a grant or two that we have in lab |
| 16:00.00 | durcyn | that's a specious argument. |
| 16:00.01 | Pharaun | so... yea |
| 16:00.33 | Pharaun | I mean... I'm literally already calling a string:match() that can easily give me people dying in addition to the other stuff I'm already doing with it |
| 16:00.44 | Pharaun | so up close people dying isn't much more expensive |
| 16:01.30 | olafski | oO |
| 16:01.41 | olafski | why string:match when you have an event for unit deaths? |
| 16:01.53 | Pharaun | I'm already doing it for other functionality in the addon |
| 16:01.56 | olafski | mkay |
| 16:02.36 | olafski | I'm curious how player deaths are significant in a research about online communities.. would you mind telling us or is it a secret? |
| 16:02.37 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 16:02.37 | Pharaun | oh, that's just behind the scenes logging information |
| 16:02.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (n=WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 16:03.09 | Pharaun | the group went through a list of things we could theoretically log, picked cheaper ones, and I vetted things when they wanted crazy/expensive/andor impossible logs |
| 16:03.23 | Pharaun | since in order to actually get relevant data and research published, we have to log something ._. |
| 16:03.36 | Pharaun | survey-only stuff is less... meaningful |
| 16:03.42 | Pharaun | at least for the crowd we're aiming for |
| 16:04.08 | Pharaun | I don't know, at some level I'm just the undergraduate code monkey on the project :P |
| 16:04.26 | olafski | haha |
| 16:04.29 | olafski | sounds fun :P |
| 16:04.32 | olafski | where do you work? |
| 16:04.41 | Pharaun | University of Minnesota, in a computer science graduate lab |
| 16:04.57 | olafski | nice, you're graduating or postdoc? |
| 16:04.58 | Pharaun | no way would you get funding for this shit outside of acdemia, lol |
| 16:05.04 | Pharaun | I'm still an undergrad ._. |
| 16:05.10 | olafski | kay :) cool |
| 16:05.27 | Pharaun | yea it's a hell of a job, haha :) |
| 16:05.27 | olafski | sounds very different from what we do in our compsci labs:P |
| 16:05.33 | Pharaun | Yeaaaaa we're the... |
| 16:05.37 | Pharaun | fringe lab, of sourts |
| 16:05.44 | olafski | I wouldn't mind doing a wow addon for my study tbh ;0 |
| 16:05.59 | Pharaun | The field is Human Computer Interaction |
| 16:06.01 | Pharaun | HCI |
| 16:06.04 | olafski | ah |
| 16:06.13 | Pharaun | sort of a cross between Comp Sci, Psychology, and social stuff |
| 16:06.14 | olafski | makes some sense.. we have a HMI group too |
| 16:06.24 | olafski | an* |
| 16:07.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (n=nahh@41.80-202-154.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:07.12 | Pharaun | The addon is basically like Badapples, Karma, DoIKnowYou, etc |
| 16:07.24 | Pharaun | with some slightly different functionality |
| 16:07.33 | Pharaun | and the added benefit of a centralized rating database |
| 16:08.02 | olafski | don't know any of those :< the titles sound a bit like a centralized "blacklist" |
| 16:08.10 | Pharaun | Yup XD |
| 16:08.19 | Pharaun | actually, that's what the thread on Elitist Jerks is about, lol |
| 16:08.34 | Pharaun | we're hoping it can move beyond that, dunno |
| 16:09.08 | olafski | hope I can see the results of this research sometime ;) |
| 16:09.22 | Pharaun | Well if we publish, I'll toss a link in here lol :D |
| 16:09.31 | olafski | ^^ |
| 16:09.43 | olafski | deal! I'll toss in a link to my research paper when it's done too then :P |
| 16:09.46 | Pharaun | a couple people in the research group have already published papers on WoW lol |
| 16:10.20 | Pharaun | there's actually quite a bit of literature on the subject already o.o |
| 16:10.30 | Pharaun | Nick Yee's work probably being the most famous lol |
| 16:11.21 | Pharaun | For this project though, the addon is bound to be so buggy it's not even funny :( |
| 16:12.14 | olafski | haha the superstitions thing.. so true |
| 16:12.42 | Pharaun | There's so much bloat to get research data... a lot of code that is useless to the real functionality for the user that's just bound to mess with it |
| 16:15.04 | Pharaun | Ok yea for future reference, CLEU and the chat messages you get like "SOandso has died." have the same range |
| 16:15.14 | olafski | what's CLEU :$ |
| 16:15.28 | olafski | combat log event.. u? |
| 16:15.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Zealin (n=Lucas_Bi@cm56-200-51.liwest.at) |
| 16:15.37 | Pharaun | unfiltered |
| 16:15.41 | olafski | ah |
| 16:15.42 | Pharaun | same thing, just a superset |
| 16:15.49 | olafski | bloated research data doesn't matter, apply some statistics to it and you will get the results you want, guaranteed :) |
| 16:15.58 | Pharaun | ^ EXACTLY, haha |
| 16:16.05 | *** part/#wowuidev leizeQ (n=opera@212.89.228.195) |
| 16:16.09 | olafski | I'm still trying to justify my research |
| 16:16.19 | Pharaun | this is why it won't really matter if they end up using it as a blacklisting addon... because that's significant in that way, at least :) |
| 16:16.20 | olafski | all I can think of at the moment is "my supervisor told me it would be useful" |
| 16:16.23 | Pharaun | haha |
| 16:16.26 | Pharaun | you read phdcomics.com ? |
| 16:16.33 | olafski | I don't really mind, I just want this out of the way so I can get a job |
| 16:16.40 | olafski | i.e. I don't mind feeling like I'm doing useless stuff atm |
| 16:16.44 | olafski | no.. will open it now |
| 16:16.57 | Pharaun | that's some seriously funny shit dude, spend several hours burning through from comic 1 at some point in time |
| 16:17.23 | Pharaun | anyone who works in an academic research lab, especially a comp sci one, should read that XD |
| 16:17.25 | olafski | wow what a horrible layout |
| 16:17.29 | Pharaun | yea |
| 16:17.42 | olafski | opened the page and I couldn't even directly see how to get to the comic :P |
| 16:17.45 | Pharaun | the content makes up for it |
| 16:17.48 | olafski | :) |
| 16:17.50 | olafski | I like thedailywtf.com |
| 16:17.56 | Pharaun | yeaaaa haha |
| 16:18.43 | Pharaun | We have an ongoing dispute with our lab, systems staff, and the administrative people at the front desk involving timecards that almost qualifies |
| 16:18.57 | olafski | haha funny comic |
| 16:19.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-40-61.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:19.10 | olafski | http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1212 :D |
| 16:19.23 | Pharaun | yupppp |
| 16:19.24 | Pharaun | haha |
| 16:20.01 | Pharaun | One of the early ones is hilarious http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=8 |
| 16:20.37 | olafski | :DDD |
| 16:20.56 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 16:21.13 | olafski | hm my supervisor asked for volunteers to help on another project he was working on... with a conference presentation on malta or cyprus or something |
| 16:21.17 | olafski | maybe I should do it :P |
| 16:22.14 | foxlit | clearly it's just a test to see whether you're working hard enough. |
| 16:22.22 | Pharaun | haa |
| 16:22.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 16:22.52 | Pharaun | aw this next paper for our paper meeting is somewhat depressing |
| 16:23.02 | Pharaun | :"User loyalty and online communities:Â why members of online communities are not faithful" |
| 16:23.20 | Kraps | faithful in what way? |
| 16:23.29 | Pharaun | I'm not sure yet, haven't read it |
| 16:23.34 | Cide | they don't offer as many sexual favors as desired |
| 16:23.44 | Kraps | ^ |
| 16:23.59 | durcyn | "Remarkably, though, we did learn that MySpace users are seven times more likely to put out than their peers" |
| 16:24.06 | Pharaun | loyalty is apparently staying in the same community, vrs. changing from one community to another or dwindling usage in a given community |
| 16:24.41 | Pharaun | 9 main reasons: Lack of interesting people/friends, low quality content, low usability, harassment & bullying, time-consuming& isloating, low trust, over-commercializeation, dissatisfaction with moderators (?!), and "unspecified boring" |
| 16:24.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Elusive (n=designer@unaffiliated/elusive) |
| 16:24.47 | zenzelezz | I'm sure it has already been linked, but anyway: http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4967/outrageous.jpg |
| 16:25.01 | Pharaun | ha!!!!!! |
| 16:25.16 | olafski | pharaun: what about anonymity? :/ |
| 16:25.30 | Pharaun | I don't know... not mentioned in the abstract yet |
| 16:28.28 | olafski | wish I could be bothered to make proper tikz pictures of my transition systems |
| 16:28.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 16:29.06 | Pharaun | The only real mention of anonymity seems to be that it facilitates bullying & flaming (see fuckwad theory http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/), and also adds to the lack of real trust |
| 16:29.35 | Pharaun | so it's a variable that impacts what they're calling the main factors for jumping ship |
| 16:29.39 | olafski | yarp that's the thing :) |
| 16:29.49 | olafski | I still feel bad if I leave a guild |
| 16:29.52 | olafski | even though they don't know me |
| 16:29.56 | Pharaun | yup, same |
| 16:29.57 | Kraps | Q: What are your thoughts on LUA? How important is it to know it? A: Obvious we love it, because we use it so much in WoW. If you're not already working in a game job, making mods is a great way to show that you're committed to getting started in games, and shows that you can finish [projects]. |
| 16:30.17 | olafski | ok |
| 16:30.27 | Pharaun | is this a cringe at the caps, or what? XD |
| 16:30.29 | Lopeppeppy | Except of course that lua is only half the field... |
| 16:30.39 | Kraps | How much do you use LUA outside of WoW? A: We use it to run tests and all kinds of things, and is very easy to integrate into C++. We actually use it in DIII too. |
| 16:30.58 | olafski | pharaun: it's much worse in things like xbox live gaming.. imagine the anonymity there |
| 16:31.09 | olafski | would be cool if wow had a player rating system :D |
| 16:31.15 | Pharaun | I know |
| 16:31.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 16:31.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 16:31.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.26 | Lopeppeppy | olafski, that's a social thing, the game doesn't *need* it to run. |
| 16:31.35 | Pharaun | if you could get blizzard to implement it server-side though, it could be awesome |
| 16:31.59 | Pharaun | not really server-, more like game- and not addon- |
| 16:32.32 | Pharaun | I mean... there are a lot of other places that use rating systems, for example online vendors (ebay & amazon) |
| 16:32.49 | Pharaun | It's different, yea |
| 16:32.56 | Pharaun | but what if you could extend that into an online game? |
| 16:33.06 | Pharaun | that's basically what our research project is looking at |
| 16:33.21 | Lopeppeppy | There are addons to do that already. *gentle shrug* |
| 16:33.51 | olafski | it would work a lot better if everybody has it though |
| 16:34.02 | olafski | but yeah.. xbox live has it, I'm not sure how well it works there though |
| 16:34.05 | Lopeppeppy | Oh hell no, I wouldn't want it, and I don't want anyone else's opinions. |
| 16:34.13 | olafski | so ignore those opinions |
| 16:34.43 | olafski | or turn off their displaying |
| 16:35.23 | zenzelezz | up-rates peppy |
| 16:35.23 | Lopeppeppy | Then why force me to have it at all, if I'm just going to turn it off? ... and THAT is why it's not a game feature. :) |
| 16:35.28 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr. |
| 16:35.35 | Pharaun | Yea there are addons that do it, but there aren't addons that have a centralized database, and there can't be an addon that would be really official or authenticated |
| 16:35.45 | Pharaun | It's not going to happen in WoW |
| 16:35.48 | olafski | lopeppeppy: not everybody uses the side action bars.. yet they're in the game |
| 16:35.49 | Pharaun | exactlyb ecause of that |
| 16:36.00 | Lopeppeppy | What Pharun just said. |
| 16:36.14 | Pharaun | people are used to having no implication to their actions from a rating system, and you can't really pile it on behind the scenes because it affects other people |
| 16:36.15 | olafski | that's the reason an _addon_ could not do it |
| 16:36.17 | Pharaun | even if they turn it off |
| 16:36.32 | Pharaun | Blizz won't implement that into WoW... |
| 16:36.34 | olafski | if blizzard would save this info in their player database it should certainly be possible |
| 16:36.39 | Pharaun | but for future games, the research could be relevant |
| 16:36.40 | olafski | I can sort of see why they won't do it |
| 16:36.43 | zenzelezz | Blizzard wouldn't want player ratings. There's enough griefing in the game already |
| 16:36.47 | olafski | it would piss players off :P |
| 16:36.51 | Cide | thing is though |
| 16:36.52 | Pharaun | yup |
| 16:36.56 | Cide | the system wouldn't affect people |
| 16:37.01 | Cide | people's actions would affect people |
| 16:37.06 | olafski | indeed |
| 16:37.11 | Pharaun | Yup |
| 16:37.19 | olafski | and there's enough work on karma systems to make "griefing" with this system not much of an issue imo |
| 16:37.23 | Cide | stop crying if you end up with no friends because you're crying all the time |
| 16:37.30 | Lopeppeppy | It's a social feature, why on earth would they spend their time supporting it? |
| 16:37.37 | Pharaun | Because it's a social game |
| 16:37.44 | Pharaun | people stay in it for social reasons a lot of the time |
| 16:37.44 | Cide | I'm not saying they should |
| 16:37.46 | zenzelezz | olafski: the benefits of a player rating system is negligible |
| 16:37.51 | olafski | e.g. if you consistently give ratings that contradict most ratings for other players, your opinion won't weigh as heavily |
| 16:37.56 | Cide | but there's no real argument against it |
| 16:37.57 | Pharaun | zenzelezz: how do you know? |
| 16:37.58 | Lopeppeppy | For you, perhaps, but you're not the person paying to support this social ratings system. |
| 16:38.02 | Lopeppeppy | WoW is not Facebook, people. |
| 16:38.09 | Cide | Lopeppeppy: blizzard can choose to implement whatever they want |
| 16:38.10 | olafski | zenzelezz: to you :) I would very much like it |
| 16:38.12 | Cide | if you don't like it, don't pay |
| 16:38.12 | zenzelezz | Pharaun: this is IRC, I'm stating opinions, not facts |
| 16:38.17 | Pharaun | oh sorry |
| 16:38.19 | zenzelezz | down-raets olafski |
| 16:38.23 | zenzelezz | rates too |
| 16:38.37 | Pharaun | I really was just curious 'cus it is a research topic, if you had evidence you might have just shot our project in the gut :P |
| 16:38.39 | Cide | the same goes for this hypothetical system as for any other feature |
| 16:38.51 | olafski | currently if I say "LF dps for nexus hc, last spot" I will get maybe 5 whispers.. I then check these people's guilds and their armory to see which one I take |
| 16:38.57 | olafski | would be nice if I could check their reputation instead |
| 16:39.05 | Lopeppeppy | So use one of the addons, olafski |
| 16:39.05 | Adys | CIDE |
| 16:39.06 | Adys | http://translationparty.com/#3460732 |
| 16:39.08 | Adys | CIDE. |
| 16:39.16 | olafski | I have never heard of someone using such an addon lopeppeppy |
| 16:39.17 | Pharaun | I realize that WoW isn't facebook, but I'm pointing out that a future MMO that implemented a system-wide player rating system a la EBay or Amazon or something could be useful |
| 16:39.24 | zenzelezz | olafski: there are several |
| 16:39.24 | Cide | mine was better :P |
| 16:39.27 | zenzelezz | websites too |
| 16:39.29 | Adys | this one is funny. |
| 16:39.31 | olafski | sure zenzelezz but I have never _heard_ of someone using it |
| 16:39.35 | Lopeppeppy | There are several, and many people I know who pug a lot use them. |
| 16:39.43 | olafski | hmm |
| 16:39.45 | Pharaun | None with centralized servers, and none with significant enough coverage |
| 16:39.52 | Pharaun | to make it really work, it'd have to be built in from the start |
| 16:39.54 | olafski | the coverage is important to me :) |
| 16:39.57 | Lopeppeppy | They can share data across guilds, IIRC, so that everyone in the guild who use it can share. |
| 16:40.02 | Pharaun | Yup |
| 16:40.06 | Pharaun | DIKY shares across guilds |
| 16:40.08 | olafski | I want to share my data with everybody |
| 16:40.11 | Pharaun | karma & a few others can do more widespread |
| 16:40.17 | Lopeppeppy | olafski, I don't want your data. :) |
| 16:40.24 | Pharaun | the addon I'm making will allow you to share with everyone via a server |
| 16:40.28 | olafski | stop hating lopeppeppy |
| 16:40.31 | olafski | we're discussing this openly |
| 16:40.34 | Pharaun | XD |
| 16:40.39 | Pharaun | But what if your data smells? |
| 16:40.46 | Lopeppeppy | So am I. I just openly think it's not a good idea. |
| 16:40.59 | olafski | I just said that if you're "griefing" by downrating good people it could be caught pharaun :) |
| 16:41.02 | Pharaun | That is a legitimate problem, because without it being built in someone can really fuck with the system, and there's not much you can do with it 'cus there's no real authetnication |
| 16:41.15 | Pharaun | Yea, maybe with some fancy algorithms |
| 16:41.16 | Lopeppeppy | In another game, sharing via a server could work, and you could have tons of fun. As well as griefers who abuse the system, etc etc. |
| 16:41.40 | durcyn | Lopeppeppy, have you ever read Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom? |
| 16:41.43 | olafski | some websites I visit have such a algorithm pharaun :) |
| 16:41.44 | Pharaun | Yup, and that's all that could realistically come of the research. WoW is what it is, and it's not changing |
| 16:41.50 | Lopeppeppy | Why not, as part of your research, convince your guild to use one of the karma addons, see how it works in practice? |
| 16:42.01 | Pharaun | I know, we have algorithms for it already, our lab runs a lot of recommendation systems taht can do this sort of thing |
| 16:42.19 | Pharaun | Shit we have a whole library for it :) Creepily named "MultiLens" or something |
| 16:42.56 | Pharaun | Lope: 'cus we have to get data |
| 16:43.01 | olafski | sounds interesting, I'll check some of these addons out.. I wonder if any of them has an option to show how many people are currently using it |
| 16:43.07 | Lopeppeppy | So go create data. Do some pugs. |
| 16:43.22 | Pharaun | Yea, I mean we have to physically log the data, so that's the majoirty of what this addon is doing |
| 16:43.40 | Pharaun | What you're saying is essentiallyw hat we'll be doing... trying to convince enough people to use it so we can get enoughd ata |
| 16:43.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-056-210-160.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:44.07 | Pharaun | then when we're done with research, pull out all the logging code and leave the (now much better) addon and centralized rating database for people to use |
| 16:44.22 | Lopeppeppy | Good luck and have fun getting participants. |
| 16:44.31 | Pharaun | downside to the getting data is that we have to get people to run a (horribly coded) executable ._. |
| 16:44.38 | Pharaun | Yea, it'll be interesting o.o |
| 16:44.39 | olafski | DIKY looks good.. but I'm in a small guild |
| 16:44.57 | olafski | an executable :< |
| 16:45.03 | olafski | not while playing I assume? |
| 16:45.08 | Pharaun | yea |
| 16:45.18 | Pharaun | http post and get data from our server |
| 16:45.36 | Lopeppeppy | So rewrite DIKY to use the addon channel, and give it a new name, and see if anyone else downloads it. |
| 16:45.40 | olafski | mkay |
| 16:46.07 | Pharaun | DIKY already uses the addon channel, and what I've essentially done is a rewrite of DIKY / Karma |
| 16:46.15 | Pharaun | with added stuff for research significance >.> |
| 16:46.19 | Pharaun | stupid psychology lol |
| 16:46.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-200-5.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 16:46.32 | Lopeppeppy | Then olafski is your first recruit! |
| 16:46.38 | Pharaun | heh :D |
| 16:46.45 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (n=spode@55867fcb.cust.multi.fi) |
| 16:46.47 | olafski | I'll happily run an addon if that helps you :) |
| 16:46.58 | Pharaun | sweet :) |
| 16:46.58 | olafski | if it doesn't drop my fps by more than 5 :P |
| 16:47.10 | olafski | not sure how much longer I'll be playing though |
| 16:47.20 | olafski | I'm feeling unwilling to play lately |
| 16:47.27 | Pharaun | the only time it drops your FPS is when you get a ridiculous fuckton of data and it tries to transfer it behind the scenes |
| 16:47.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Asuah (n=Mook@68.32.68.36) |
| 16:47.34 | Pharaun | because as of yet I've been too lazy to pad that |
| 16:48.07 | Pharaun | Yea I know what you mean |
| 16:48.12 | Pharaun | I quit over a year ago |
| 16:48.21 | Pharaun | got brought on to this project like 6 or 7 months ago |
| 16:48.25 | Pharaun | and still have 0 urge to start playing again |
| 16:48.37 | olafski | I like playing actually |
| 16:48.42 | olafski | I'm just actively avoiding my guild |
| 16:48.50 | olafski | I should really make a decision on what to do with it |
| 16:48.53 | olafski | considering I'm the GM.. :< |
| 16:48.58 | Pharaun | ahh, haha |
| 16:49.09 | olafski | being GM has drained my willingness to play I think |
| 16:49.22 | olafski | people crying about everything to me, none of the other officers get any complaints |
| 16:49.35 | kdtresh | what do they whine about? |
| 16:49.36 | olafski | I get blamed for people being on vacation, healers slacking, dps being bad, tanks facing mobs the wrong way |
| 16:49.45 | olafski | well, "blamed" might not be the right word |
| 16:49.56 | olafski | but they tell me about it instead of taking it up with the healer/dps/tank in question |
| 16:50.19 | olafski | I had a lot of fun solo leveling my (unguilded) shaman last night, I just don't want to log any guilded chars cause of the qq :P |
| 16:50.26 | kdtresh | sounds like bad guild members |
| 16:50.29 | mikma | torhal: i hate your face. no really, there's something funky going with the LibQTip |
| 16:50.29 | Pharaun | Maybe you need a built in system for letting guildmembers give each other feedback |
| 16:50.37 | olafski | well most of them are good players and nice people |
| 16:50.41 | olafski | it's just that they expect me to handle everything |
| 16:50.50 | olafski | which maybe I should do as GM.. but I'm just not cut out for it |
| 16:51.05 | Codayus_ | Heh |
| 16:51.11 | olafski | one of the trials keeps mocking everything I do, I feel like removing him but then people will not like me because he's one of the 3 healers we have :P |
| 16:51.30 | Torhal | mikma: Did you stab it repeatedly, and maybe slap it around? |
| 16:51.37 | mikma | torhal: the "leave all queues" works outside LibQTip perfectly, but if i try to execute it from LQT it errors |
| 16:52.14 | Torhal | Bleargh. |
| 16:52.18 | Lopeppeppy | I love guild mute. :) |
| 16:53.02 | olafski | i.e. turning off guild chat? |
| 16:53.21 | olafski | maybe I should just set /dnd and ignore everything that comes my way :P |
| 16:53.33 | mikma | torhal: any ideas? :) i tried adding them as separate entries in LQT, same result. error in chat. |
| 16:53.35 | olafski | but it feels irresponsible to do what I do now, I should make someone else leader or disband |
| 16:53.48 | cog|work | ~seen lunessa |
| 16:53.51 | purl | lunessa <n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 10d 19h 22m 27s ago, saying: 'Ciao! I'm out of here and off to California.'. |
| 16:53.54 | Codayus_ | As GM, I once had to give one of our rogues some impropty relationship counciling on Christmas Eve - apparently he'd just had a messy fight with his live in GF (also a guild member) and they had split up. |
| 16:54.16 | Codayus_ | That was weird. |
| 16:55.20 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 16:55.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 16:55.31 | Codayus_ | ...they ended up marrying though, so... *shrug* People are weird. |
| 16:56.49 | Pharaun | being a GM is tough and/or weird like that :P |
| 16:57.11 | Cide | one of our officers was secretly in love with a [paladin] guild member (I'll add they'd never met), and when we wanted to give some paladin drop to another paladin (who happened to be yet another officer), she threw a fit, called us biased, left the guild with her lovee and ended up shattering the guild |
| 16:57.30 | Slafsinator | girls in guilds!! |
| 16:57.32 | Codayus_ | Awesome. |
| 16:57.38 | Cide | frickin' women. |
| 16:57.39 | Lopeppeppy | Twoo wuv is what bwrings us togewer today |
| 16:57.47 | Pharaun | lol |
| 16:57.55 | Lopeppeppy | Bite me, Cide, frikkin' men. :) |
| 16:58.03 | Cide | :D |
| 16:58.04 | kdtresh | that bwessed awwangement? |
| 16:58.07 | olafski | ha codayus_, I get that stuff too |
| 16:58.15 | olafski | one guy told me he was depressed and tried to commit suicide |
| 16:58.21 | olafski | I'd prefer a bit more anonymity in my game >_< |
| 16:58.27 | Codayus_ | Heh, long ago... I was a member of a guild which was in a raid allaince with a larger guild. The other guilds GM had a live in GF who was an officer. She, in turn, was having a real life affair with another officer. |
| 16:58.28 | sylvanaar | lol |
| 16:58.55 | zenzelezz | Codayus_: sharing is caring |
| 16:59.02 | Lopeppeppy | I had a soldier in Iraq and his little brother, who used WoW to "get together" once a week. Fun times. |
| 16:59.03 | Torhal | mikma: This is the reason I used Dewdrop for Revelation. |
| 16:59.11 | Codayus_ | The other office, incidentally, ran the guilds forums. This led to all sorts of messy backstabbing, drama, and (this was fun) deleted signups on the forums...stuff like that. |
| 16:59.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=Shadowed@174.34.168.226) |
| 16:59.15 | olafski | I also fooled around with the gf of my guildmaster years ago, who was also an officer (and she managed the raid invites and drops) |
| 16:59.19 | mikma | torhal: :D |
| 16:59.22 | Torhal | mikma: I suppose it's time I added secure frame-handling to LQT. |
| 16:59.33 | Torhal | Bleargh. |
| 16:59.34 | olafski | somehow I got into all raids, got innervates whenever I needed them etc |
| 16:59.34 | *** join/#wowuidev bartlomehus (n=bartlome@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:59.35 | mikma | torhal: well if it wouldn't be a huge problem that would be nice |
| 16:59.44 | Codayus_ | All behind the GMs back. He found out, had a big fight with his GF, they made up, emptied the guild bank, disbanded the guild, and transferred off the server. |
| 16:59.49 | Torhal | My little tooltip lib is getting all bloaty... |
| 16:59.56 | mikma | and usefull |
| 17:00.18 | Codayus_ | Yay for drama. |
| 17:00.29 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 17:00.33 | nevcairiel | how nice for an end |
| 17:01.14 | Torhal | Lopeppeppy: Princess Bride FTW. |
| 17:01.28 | Lopeppeppy | Very ftw |
| 17:01.50 | Pharaun | ya |
| 17:01.51 | kdtresh | it's a dweem wivvin a dweem |
| 17:02.59 | Pharaun | And you say WoW isn't facebook, shit |
| 17:03.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (n=WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 17:03.07 | cog|work | umm... anyone unable to access aol.com? |
| 17:03.22 | Lopeppeppy | I get a welcome page. |
| 17:03.23 | Pharaun | works for me |
| 17:03.24 | kdtresh | anyone actually WANT to access aol.com? |
| 17:03.28 | Pharaun | ^ yea lol |
| 17:03.29 | cog|work | moos |
| 17:03.43 | Pharaun | wait what kennedy died? |
| 17:03.53 | zenzelezz | apparently cog|work is not welcome at AOL |
| 17:03.56 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, he died overnight. Long hard fight. |
| 17:04.03 | cog|work | kdtresh: trying to sign up some of our users at work for AIM pro |
| 17:04.04 | AbsolutRayne_ | @_@ |
| 17:04.07 | Pharaun | fuckkk |
| 17:04.13 | zenzelezz | Pharaun: he was out of cooldowns |
| 17:04.21 | kdtresh | last stand was down |
| 17:04.29 | Lopeppeppy | Hi hi, AbsolutRayne_. |
| 17:04.38 | AbsolutRayne_ | hiya |
| 17:05.12 | Pharaun | I heard there's no respawn point in RL, damnt |
| 17:05.23 | kdtresh | and priests are totally different |
| 17:05.48 | Lopeppeppy | Or INdifferent. :P |
| 17:07.11 | Kraps | kdtresh: are you kidding? this past year was his last stand |
| 17:07.30 | kdtresh | yeah, but he couldn't pop it again |
| 17:07.36 | Kraps | yeah |
| 17:07.40 | kdtresh | heals must not have been up to snuff |
| 17:07.54 | zenzelezz | they were trying to keep the rogues alive |
| 17:07.59 | Cide | <olafski> somehow I got into all raids, got innervates whenever I needed them etc |
| 17:08.01 | kdtresh | they're all rogues :P |
| 17:08.14 | olafski | cide: ? :) |
| 17:08.16 | Cide | see, other people rely on skill to get that |
| 17:08.24 | olafski | so did I |
| 17:08.29 | olafski | sweettalking skill |
| 17:08.32 | sylvanaar | you got innervates? |
| 17:08.40 | Kraps | kdtresh: troll rogues |
| 17:08.46 | Cide | if I played I'd get every innervate ever |
| 17:08.53 | sylvanaar | lol |
| 17:09.09 | olafski | I can't say I was a bad healer.. but having a pushtotalk button only to that particular officer helped in getting the innervates on time :P |
| 17:09.19 | Cide | I'd be the mekka of druids |
| 17:09.31 | sylvanaar | "innervate please"...."sorry used" |
| 17:09.36 | Cide | mecca I suppose it's in english |
| 17:09.44 | kdtresh | mecha! |
| 17:09.58 | sylvanaar | mecca |
| 17:10.10 | Cide | mecca or makkah according to wp |
| 17:10.12 | zenzelezz | Cide would be the mocha of druids |
| 17:10.26 | sylvanaar | ^ |
| 17:10.32 | sylvanaar | thats witty |
| 17:11.22 | olafski | sylvanaar: "innervate please".."sorry used".."huh I didn't hear anyone ask for it" :P |
| 17:11.33 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 17:11.46 | sylvanaar | "yeah noone did, so i just used it on myself" |
| 17:11.52 | Kraps | srsly the guild talents will be the new major drama wagon |
| 17:12.07 | sylvanaar | really? |
| 17:12.29 | zenzelezz | haven't most other MMOs had some sort of "guild favors" for a while? |
| 17:12.37 | Kraps | no idea |
| 17:12.52 | Cide | zenzelezz: yes, but they rely on the existence of [willing] female guild members |
| 17:13.00 | zenzelezz | I know Anarchy Online let your guild members gain bonuses to stats based on your guild city (from the Alien Invasion expansion) |
| 17:13.22 | zenzelezz | Cide: damn, I must have been in the wrong guild |
| 17:13.33 | Kraps | Cide: fem draenei or go home |
| 17:13.33 | Cide | evidently. |
| 17:13.42 | olafski | I think the guild talent thing sounds fun |
| 17:13.50 | olafski | but can't really judge it until I've seen more |
| 17:14.16 | mikma | torhal: is it done yet? ;) |
| 17:14.41 | Torhal | mikma: NEIN! |
| 17:14.54 | mikma | scheisse |
| 17:15.47 | Lopeppeppy | merde |
| 17:16.04 | mikma | like wiping your ass with s...andpaper |
| 17:16.34 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 17:20.02 | mikma | torhal: done yet? ;) |
| 17:20.11 | Pharaun | zenzelezz: Yea I've seen a few other MMOs with guild talent / skill / etc things before |
| 17:20.28 | Pharaun | Ranging from useless to gamebreaking |
| 17:21.35 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb_ (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 17:22.48 | Kraps | if i make an audio file that has 30 second clips of a bands songs, is that considered fair use or not? |
| 17:23.11 | End | maybe |
| 17:23.25 | kdtresh | what are you using it for? |
| 17:23.56 | Kraps | a video that also has pics of the band |
| 17:24.08 | Pharaun | it might be 29 seconds, I don't nkow o.O |
| 17:24.20 | Pharaun | :P |
| 17:24.35 | Pharaun | No I honestly have no idea what constitutes fair use, talk to a copyright lawyer |
| 17:24.41 | Pharaun | I only know patent & trademark lawyers |
| 17:25.08 | Cide | I would guess using it in a non-commercial context goes a long way towards being accepted as "fair use" |
| 17:25.12 | Cide | but IANAL |
| 17:25.42 | zenzelezz | we always considered you anal |
| 17:25.57 | Kraps | i made such a vid and put it youtube, but it got smacked |
| 17:26.07 | zenzelezz | (not *that's* over-stretching a pun) |
| 17:26.10 | zenzelezz | *now |
| 17:26.26 | Cide | yes |
| 17:26.27 | Codayus_ | Note that youtube tends to be much more restrictive than fair use. |
| 17:26.42 | zenzelezz | I swear I'm getting stupider by the minute, my typing has deteriorated |
| 17:26.44 | kdtresh | i saw an in-depth study on what youtube's filters were searching for |
| 17:26.51 | kdtresh | the first 30 seconds are the key |
| 17:26.59 | Pharaun | Youtube smacks a lot of videos that are fair use |
| 17:27.07 | Pharaun | or rather |
| 17:27.08 | kdtresh | if you have silence for 30 seconds, you can play the rest of the song and it won't kill it |
| 17:27.18 | Codayus_ | Just because they yanked it doesn't mean it's a copyright violation (and just because it's not, doesn't mean they won't yank it). And they won't care a bit if you complain, either. :-) |
| 17:27.18 | Pharaun | youtube gets requests to smack videos that are fair use and then does so without checking to see if they are or not |
| 17:27.48 | Codayus_ | *nod* Good distinction. |
| 17:28.26 | Kraps | says warner music flagged it |
| 17:28.34 | End | you can protest it |
| 17:28.35 | *** part/#wowuidev Elusive (n=designer@unaffiliated/elusive) |
| 17:28.40 | End | and youtube will put it back up |
| 17:28.40 | Kraps | i will |
| 17:28.58 | End | but then time warner will be able to and have to get at you directly |
| 17:29.15 | Kraps | really? |
| 17:29.24 | End | yes |
| 17:29.25 | End | it' |
| 17:29.27 | End | bleh |
| 17:29.34 | End | it's trivial to take it down and put it back up by design |
| 17:30.20 | zenzelezz | do Time Warner and the others have people employed to just sit around on Youtube all day to check for their content? |
| 17:31.09 | End | so long as youtube complies with dcma requests promptly, they're protected, but the uploader can protest it, at which point if the dcma sender wishes to continue further, youtube has to direct them to the uploader |
| 17:31.20 | zenzelezz | "This is John, he's our Green Day filterer" |
| 17:31.24 | End | lol |
| 17:31.31 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:31.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:31.44 | Kraps | but they dont know who i am, just some guy who really likes nickelback |
| 17:32.09 | End | they at least have your ip address |
| 17:32.33 | zenzelezz | Kraps: have you never watched CSI? They just enter your IP in a program and woosh! Here's your current GPS coordinate, your SSN, and your cat's secret middle name |
| 17:32.52 | Kraps | so they'll send me a letter or something? |
| 17:33.08 | Kraps | zenzelezz: inorite |
| 17:33.10 | zenzelezz | imagine the irony... being tracked down by IP for infringing on IP |
| 17:33.16 | End | dunno, they'd probably have to get a hold of your isp to track you down :P |
| 17:33.27 | ScytheBlade1 | that's pretty tricky, as I don't have a cat |
| 17:33.36 | zenzelezz | ScytheBlade1: that's what they want you to think |
| 17:33.37 | Zhinjio | that makes it even more secret! |
| 17:34.21 | End | anyhow, this is all covered in part of the DCMA |
| 17:34.23 | alestane | This will eventually make me tear my hair out. |
| 17:34.32 | End | safe harbot provisions and whatnot |
| 17:34.37 | End | harbor* |
| 17:35.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Elusive (n=designer@unaffiliated/elusive) |
| 17:35.30 | ScytheBlade1 | alestane: what will? |
| 17:35.32 | alestane | Anyone have experience with using a remote NFS directory as a home folder in Leopard? |
| 17:35.39 | End | ah, if you tell youtube to put it back up, you probably have to give enough contact information in case time warner decides to pursue you :P |
| 17:35.49 | ScytheBlade1 | haha. wow. yeah. that'll induce pain. |
| 17:36.22 | nevcairiel | I know how to do it on linux, but dont ask me about macs :P |
| 17:36.42 | Kraps | Type your full name to serve as your electronic signature |
| 17:36.47 | Kraps | yeah yeah |
| 17:37.34 | Kraps | i'll "accidentally" misspell it |
| 17:38.12 | zenzelezz | as in Steve becomes Sarah? |
| 17:38.41 | Kraps | lololol |
| 17:38.53 | alestane | I'm not even sure yet that the share is being exported correctly. |
| 17:39.01 | End | welcome to nfs |
| 17:39.18 | zenzelezz | so what is it about NFS, everyone seems to hate it, but still use it? |
| 17:39.40 | Torhal | zenzelezz: Name a good alternative for Windows. |
| 17:39.45 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 17:39.46 | nevcairiel | there isnt really much of an alternative, unless you use CIFS .. and thats a microsoft thing :P |
| 17:39.46 | ScytheBlade1 | "It has been around for decades" answers both |
| 17:39.51 | zenzelezz | Torhal: it was a genuine question |
| 17:39.54 | zenzelezz | I'm not familiar with NFS |
| 17:39.57 | End | nfs works well enough you can use it and don't want to make a better version, but its bad enough for making sure it works and getting it set up |
| 17:40.11 | Torhal | zenzelezz: NFS is the de-factor Microsoft filesystem |
| 17:40.18 | Torhal | s/factor/facto/ |
| 17:40.23 | ScytheBlade1 | wtf? |
| 17:40.24 | ScytheBlade1 | No |
| 17:40.25 | ScytheBlade1 | That's NTFS |
| 17:40.29 | Torhal | Nah |
| 17:40.31 | Torhal | Er, bah |
| 17:40.31 | End | also, nfs is fairly portable |
| 17:40.35 | Torhal | yah |
| 17:40.37 | nevcairiel | seriously, NFS isnt related to MS :P |
| 17:40.39 | Torhal | I definitely need sleep |
| 17:40.41 | ScytheBlade1 | NFS is an entirely different thing |
| 17:40.44 | Torhal | NFS is not NTSF |
| 17:40.46 | alestane | zenzelezz: I think it was originally a Sun thing. But it's been so long established in the *nix world that most people at least know something about configuring it. |
| 17:40.47 | Torhal | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:40.56 | zenzelezz | I see |
| 17:40.58 | End | yeah, it's a Sun thing |
| 17:41.18 | nevcairiel | But what network filesystems do we have? we have NFS from the *nix world, and CIFS from microsoft .. i dont know anything else :P |
| 17:41.25 | End | and almost every unix system supports it :P |
| 17:41.25 | alestane | It also supports POSIX paths and file permissions, which most other sharing schemes don't. |
| 17:41.32 | alestane | AFP. |
| 17:41.42 | alestane | But no-one uses that but Apple. |
| 17:41.54 | nevcairiel | Heh, i was trying a guess that it was a apple-only thing |
| 17:42.01 | zenzelezz | I still find it odd that NTFS supports POSIX file names, but that lots of Windows components don't |
| 17:42.34 | nevcairiel | Most components can work with them just fine, they just complain when you try to create them |
| 17:42.37 | durcyn | NT actually had a decent posix layer when microsoft acquired it |
| 17:42.54 | zenzelezz | nevcairiel: Windows Explorer would not let me access them |
| 17:43.10 | nevcairiel | what was in your file name? |
| 17:43.18 | zenzelezz | a period at the end |
| 17:43.29 | End | huh |
| 17:43.45 | End | explorer has trouble -creating- files with periods at the beginning I've noticed :P |
| 17:43.53 | nevcairiel | yeah, it doesnt like that |
| 17:43.56 | End | but will let you access those just fine |
| 17:43.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h161n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 17:43.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 17:44.02 | nevcairiel | have to use a bash and touch them or something |
| 17:44.06 | End | yup |
| 17:44.37 | End | hm |
| 17:44.47 | End | well, explorer won't let me create files with periods at the end either |
| 17:44.56 | nevcairiel | it automagically strips it |
| 17:45.13 | End | yeah, period at the beginning gives an error though :P |
| 17:45.19 | End | creating I mean |
| 17:45.31 | alestane | Wow,very nearly fried my install there. |
| 17:45.42 | alestane | vi to the rescue. |
| 17:45.48 | End | hmmmmm |
| 17:45.55 | zenzelezz | I still need to fix my Slackware box at work after my somewhat utter failure at upgrading GTK |
| 17:46.10 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 17:48.06 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, frying is for eggs, not games. |
| 17:48.38 | End | I think alestane is talking about his OS X install |
| 17:48.54 | alestane | My computer right now is in a condition similar to having just moved into a new house...you can do everything you did before you moved, as long as you're willing to dig through enough boxes. |
| 17:49.13 | End | heh |
| 17:49.41 | nevcairiel | hah |
| 17:49.45 | Pharaun | If I had a nickel for every time I misspelled a variable using an IDE without good spellchecking... |
| 17:49.45 | alestane | And what I am trying to do right now is the rough equivalent of moving my old apartment into a storage unit...and then building the storage unit onto the side of my new place so it's "just another room." |
| 17:50.01 | zenzelezz | "digging through boxes" sounds like me trying to locate anything on the Mac at work |
| 17:50.25 | Pharaun | zing |
| 17:50.46 | alestane | In fact, I think I need to log out to get my Users folder to show up properly again. |
| 17:50.49 | alestane | brb. |
| 17:50.53 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:51.24 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:51.24 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:51.27 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:52.51 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 17:53.03 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:53.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:53.36 | zenzelezz | I swear the Software Update program on my mini-Mac at work is always waiting until it sees I have a dozen windows open before it goes "hey, you should update this. Oh, and you'll have to reboot" |
| 17:54.31 | alestane | It's showing that a share is mounted over the folder, it seems to think it's working, but the share is showing as empty. |
| 17:55.48 | kdtresh | you mean it doesn't "just work" |
| 17:55.48 | End | if you mount the share in a non-user breaking place, does it show up correctly? |
| 17:55.49 | kdtresh | ? |
| 17:56.42 | alestane | No, it says, "Could not connect to the server because the name or password is not correct." |
| 17:56.51 | End | o_O |
| 17:57.19 | alestane | That's when I use the Finder "Connect to Server" command with an nfs:// url. |
| 17:57.49 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 17:57.55 | alestane | Going to go play WoW for half an hour or so and let the insanities fade a bit. |
| 17:57.59 | End | but..nfs..doesn't use..nfs |
| 17:58.02 | End | I mean |
| 17:58.07 | End | nfs doesn't use username/passwords, does it? |
| 17:58.20 | alestane | Not as far as I know, it uses network restrictions. |
| 17:58.25 | End | yeah |
| 17:58.34 | End | I'd try with the mount command |
| 17:58.40 | alestane | I can try taking the subnet restriction off the share. |
| 17:58.43 | End | maybe the connect to server command is confused |
| 17:58.53 | mikma | skynet |
| 17:58.57 | alestane | Still going to go play WoW first. |
| 17:58.58 | End | nfs:// ...sure you mean smb://! |
| 17:59.00 | End | hehe |
| 17:59.01 | End | fair enough |
| 17:59.32 | alestane | Brain is toast, I've been working on this computer for four days. |
| 18:00.04 | kdtresh | bleh, freaking elekks need to be shorter |
| 18:00.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 18:00.15 | kdtresh | i'm tired of thwacking my forehead on doorways |
| 18:00.42 | End | tauren on mammoths is worse |
| 18:00.59 | End | well |
| 18:01.00 | Kraps | anything on mammoths is worse |
| 18:01.03 | End | anything on mammoths is worse |
| 18:01.03 | NightHawkTheSane | elekks nothing, trolls on raptors cant fit through the damn UC elevator >< |
| 18:01.04 | End | yea' |
| 18:01.13 | End | NightHawkTheSane: true enough! |
| 18:01.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@78.70.60.161) |
| 18:01.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 18:01.28 | kdtresh | ugh, uc is bad enough without running into stuff |
| 18:01.37 | alestane | Between obtaining an install image that would work with an Intel, finding a way to make it load, getting the install working, Installing Vista and finding Boot Camp drivers, and now trying to share my old box because I don't have room for my user directories on the new box, I'm pretty fried. |
| 18:02.16 | NightHawkTheSane | o_0 |
| 18:02.25 | Lopeppeppy | The day that a sheeple can follow written directions, I will quit my job in utter happiness. |
| 18:02.25 | alestane | I may end up deciding to do without the wonders of Windows on a Mac just to make room for my files. |
| 18:02.51 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb_ (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 18:03.08 | alestane | Not like I don't have other Windows machines. |
| 18:03.12 | Thunder_Child | looks like you will be employed forever then Lopeppeppy |
| 18:03.17 | End | Lopeppeppy: that's the day you'll have to find a new job |
| 18:03.28 | NightHawkTheSane | windows on a mac isn't that impressive unless you really like rebooting |
| 18:03.48 | alestane | Since right now it's eating a third of my drive. |
| 18:04.00 | NightHawkTheSane | yeesh |
| 18:04.08 | NightHawkTheSane | laptop or just a small drive? |
| 18:04.46 | alestane | It was a surplused computer at a good deal, only has 60Gb. And I can't move my old 80Gb because the move from PowerPC to Intel was accompanied by a move from IDE to SATA. |
| 18:06.47 | Dashkal | Nab a cheap half TB drive? |
| 18:08.22 | alestane | See, we shouldn't really have spent the money on the COMPUTER. I have zero budget for upgrades or I wouldn't be begging durcyn for his surplused Gig of RAM. |
| 18:08.33 | Pharaun | Why is it that horde cities are 100x more lethal than alliance cities? |
| 18:08.44 | durcyn | alestane: speaking of, it should go out this afternoon |
| 18:08.59 | alestane | durcyn: Sweet, thank you. |
| 18:09.05 | kdtresh | they're designed by deat people and ogres |
| 18:09.10 | kdtresh | dead too |
| 18:09.41 | alestane | This machine is considerably more playable on a half-gig than my G4 was, but 512Mb is NOT enough when you have to go to Dalaran or the tournament grounds. |
| 18:09.59 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, nope. |
| 18:10.04 | kdtresh | i had a dual g4 with 1.5gb ram |
| 18:10.15 | kdtresh | sold it because it was meh |
| 18:10.26 | Kraps | felicia day gets... embarrassed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbFjePdOpK8&feature=popt00us11 |
| 18:10.39 | alestane | And eventually I should be able to upgrade to 2Gb which should be decent, but first I need the $50. |
| 18:10.44 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:11.23 | alestane | Someday I may even be able to switch out for dual cores, if I can still find the right CPU by the time I can afford it. |
| 18:11.39 | kdtresh | i got 350 for it |
| 18:11.46 | kdtresh | now i just need to sell my 12" ibook g3 |
| 18:12.22 | alestane | I love how her co-star has to explain it to her. |
| 18:12.58 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 18:13.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 18:13.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 18:13.19 | Shirik | hai |
| 18:13.29 | alestane | hai2u |
| 18:13.39 | Thunder_Child | /wave @ Shirik |
| 18:13.42 | kdtresh | yes? |
| 18:15.06 | Shirik | ãããã§ããï¼ |
| 18:15.41 | alestane | Whoops, new OS installation doesn't have IME enabled yet. |
| 18:16.00 | Shirik | bleh |
| 18:16.03 | Shirik | what OS |
| 18:16.24 | alestane | Leopard. It should work when I turn it on. |
| 18:16.33 | Shirik | s/work/break/ |
| 18:17.13 | Shirik | another kennedy died wtf :/ |
| 18:17.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Cloudwolf (n=chatzill@c-71-231-97-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:18.16 | kdtresh | it happens |
| 18:18.33 | alestane | I think that's the last of the brothers, yes? |
| 18:19.21 | Shirik | so it seems |
| 18:20.28 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI|mobile (n=KarlKFI@ip68-231-217-61.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 18:21.22 | Kraps | Shirik: he was old |
| 18:21.30 | Shirik | 77 is old? |
| 18:21.45 | Kraps | older |
| 18:21.48 | Shirik | I wanna be at least 90 |
| 18:21.49 | Kraps | than 76 |
| 18:22.20 | alestane | ãããããã |
| 18:22.39 | alestane | There, got it turned on. |
| 18:23.02 | Lopeppeppy | *giggle* |
| 18:23.09 | nevcairiel | average lifespan for the US is 77-80 or so, so yeah, he was old |
| 18:23.19 | alestane | Naughty Peppy is naughty. |
| 18:24.24 | alestane | But you know we wouldn't want her any other way. |
| 18:24.41 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 18:26.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=eandre@78.70.60.161) |
| 18:26.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 18:26.12 | Adys | http://translationparty.com/#3466348 |
| 18:26.14 | Adys | cide |
| 18:26.18 | Cide | hi |
| 18:26.24 | Adys | clicky |
| 18:26.45 | Cide | that's awesome |
| 18:27.25 | Adys | http://translationparty.com/#3466431 |
| 18:27.58 | Cide | lol |
| 18:28.01 | olafski | hahahahaha adys |
| 18:28.20 | olafski | the second one is weird too :P |
| 18:28.21 | End | did you just try forever? |
| 18:28.25 | End | instead of for never? |
| 18:28.40 | Adys | did you just click? |
| 18:29.07 | End | of course, but you get a similar result with forever |
| 18:29.29 | Kraps | ãã ã |
| 18:29.33 | olafski | did you click the first link he posted? |
| 18:29.35 | Adys | Duke Nukem Forever |
| 18:29.35 | Adys | It is doubtful that this phrase will ever reach equilibrium. |
| 18:29.46 | Adys | Ever. |
| 18:32.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:33.05 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 18:36.55 | Fisker | yay |
| 18:36.58 | Fisker | we fucked up mimiron |
| 18:37.04 | olafski | gz |
| 18:38.05 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 18:38.09 | Lopeppeppy | Yay. |
| 18:40.34 | olafski | hm. I expected "lol mimiron is super easy" then realized I'm not on quakenet |
| 18:40.53 | durcyn | mimiron is easy Fisker |
| 18:41.57 | kdtresh | your mom... nevermind |
| 18:43.06 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 18:43.37 | Cide | haha mimiron is really really simple |
| 18:43.39 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-30.barrettxplore.com) |
| 18:46.47 | Bruners | i would not go as far and say he is easy |
| 18:46.51 | Fisker | firefighter durcyn |
| 18:46.55 | Bruners | but he is not hard either |
| 18:47.23 | Fisker | naw |
| 18:47.34 | alestane | Simple and easy are not quite the same thing. |
| 18:47.37 | Fisker | 1 hour of tries |
| 18:47.38 | Fisker | :P |
| 18:51.06 | durcyn | Fisker: firefighter's easy man, l2p. |
| 18:51.23 | durcyn | or l2nbd as the case may be |
| 18:51.28 | durcyn | (not be danish) |
| 18:51.28 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:51.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:52.17 | Fisker | i didn't say it was hard durcyn |
| 18:52.31 | Fisker | it was rewarding though |
| 18:52.39 | Fisker | especially compared to twin valkyrs ;E |
| 18:54.01 | Bruners | Oreo's are quite good |
| 18:55.59 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 18:58.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Dolby (n=Dolby@MMOI/Administrator/Dolby) |
| 18:58.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Dolby] by ChanServ |
| 19:02.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (i=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 19:02.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 19:03.25 | *** part/#wowuidev Shirik (i=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 19:03.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (i=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 19:03.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (i=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 19:03.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 19:04.06 | Shirik | :/ |
| 19:04.08 | Shirik | I severely broke mirc |
| 19:04.27 | ScytheBlade1 | not hard |
| 19:04.38 | Lopeppeppy | Stop doing those things. :) First the AC, then the mirc. |
| 19:04.49 | Shirik | don't worry |
| 19:04.51 | Shirik | soon it will be git |
| 19:04.54 | Shirik | and then the world will praise me |
| 19:05.08 | durcyn | people still use mirc? |
| 19:05.25 | Shirik | all the other IRC clients are ugly |
| 19:05.31 | Shirik | I use mirc because it interfaces with nbs-irc |
| 19:06.57 | Shirik | hi Lopeppeppy! |
| 19:07.01 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Shirik |
| 19:07.40 | Shirik | ok mr. ScytheBlade1 |
| 19:07.43 | Shirik | how complex is it to set up git? |
| 19:07.48 | olafski | people still use mirc? :P |
| 19:07.51 | durcyn | git init |
| 19:07.51 | durcyn | done |
| 19:07.56 | ScytheBlade1 | 6 |
| 19:07.57 | industrial | cd foo;git init |
| 19:07.58 | ScytheBlade1 | * ^ |
| 19:08.03 | Shirik | and how pissy does git get with binary files? |
| 19:08.16 | ScytheBlade1 | depends on what type of files you're trying to put in there |
| 19:08.27 | Shirik | assume them to be images |
| 19:08.30 | nevcairiel | as long as it detects it properly, its fine iwth them |
| 19:08.39 | ScytheBlade1 | indeed |
| 19:08.43 | Shirik | I'm more thinking of pdf files probably |
| 19:08.52 | ScytheBlade1 | just fine |
| 19:08.54 | durcyn | ain't a problem |
| 19:09.02 | Shirik | post-commit hooks? |
| 19:09.06 | ScytheBlade1 | assuming you aren't checking in multi-gig binary files, you're fine |
| 19:09.07 | Shirik | easy? |
| 19:09.09 | ScytheBlade1 | .git/hooks/ |
| 19:09.11 | ScytheBlade1 | look in there |
| 19:09.18 | Shirik | now obviously post-commit hooks are only to the server being pushed to |
| 19:09.21 | Shirik | not commit everywhere |
| 19:09.57 | zenzelezz | I thought the whole idea behind git was "being everywhere" |
| 19:09.58 | ScytheBlade1 | no, that'd be post-update |
| 19:10.09 | ScytheBlade1 | post-commit is post every commit |
| 19:10.16 | Shirik | it doesn't seem very logical that it would be possible for "every commit" |
| 19:10.22 | Shirik | take example: You clone from a remote server |
| 19:10.28 | Shirik | make 3 commits to your copy |
| 19:10.31 | ScytheBlade1 | hooks aren't cloned |
| 19:10.41 | Shirik | none of those will trigger the server's commit hook |
| 19:10.51 | ScytheBlade1 | none of them will trigger anything |
| 19:10.53 | ScytheBlade1 | as you have no hooks in that situation |
| 19:10.54 | Shirik | right |
| 19:10.57 | Shirik | that's my point |
| 19:11.01 | Shirik | just making sure |
| 19:11.03 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 19:11.15 | Shirik | is there a "preferred way" to set up git? |
| 19:11.19 | ScytheBlade1 | git init |
| 19:11.20 | Shirik | like svn's trunk/tags/branches |
| 19:11.46 | durcyn | just go fiddle with it, do it wrong once, and become enlightened. |
| 19:11.49 | ScytheBlade1 | no. Convention is that your 'master' branch is named 'master' |
| 19:11.54 | ScytheBlade1 | That's about it |
| 19:12.33 | ScytheBlade1 | git manages your project how you want it to |
| 19:12.54 | ScytheBlade1 | it doesn't force your file structure to do anything at all to work properly |
| 19:13.33 | Shirik | wtf |
| 19:13.44 | Shirik | why is there a git-1.6.4, git-1.6.3.4, etc. |
| 19:13.47 | Shirik | and then a git-9999 |
| 19:13.54 | ScytheBlade1 | wow, you're bad |
| 19:14.06 | ScytheBlade1 | -9999 is gentoo convention for "from devel sources" |
| 19:14.09 | Shirik | :( |
| 19:14.19 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd imagine that -9999 pulls git.git down and builds that |
| 19:14.24 | ScytheBlade1 | kde-9999 |
| 19:14.29 | ScytheBlade1 | pulls kde down from the kde svn |
| 19:14.58 | durcyn | Available versions: (~)1.6.3.1 1.6.3.3 (~)1.6.3.4 (~)1.6.4 **9999 |
| 19:15.02 | durcyn | whatever could the mask mean! |
| 19:15.26 | ScytheBlade1 | it means "emerge git" and don't worry about it :) |
| 19:15.33 | Shirik | well that's what I always do |
| 19:15.44 | Shirik | I just went to gentoo-portage to look it up and saw that sitting there |
| 19:16.03 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 19:16.34 | durcyn | use eix |
| 19:16.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=Shadowed@174.34.168.226) |
| 19:16.50 | Shirik | ....... |
| 19:16.54 | Shirik | why did I already have git installed |
| 19:17.02 | Shirik | EVIL |
| 19:17.07 | ScytheBlade1 | because you're awesome |
| 19:17.14 | Cide | ScytheBlade1: or emergit |
| 19:17.28 | Shirik | here's the part I'm really missing |
| 19:17.36 | durcyn | because you set USE="git" years ago and forgot about it? |
| 19:17.41 | Cide | that was so bad I don't think anyone will understand it :/ |
| 19:17.56 | Shirik | why the fuck would I ever do USE="git" |
| 19:17.56 | durcyn | Cide: i got it, and i hated it. |
| 19:17.56 | Shirik | anyway, there's no other aspect to git, like svnserve, that acts as a server? |
| 19:17.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Cide: Yes. |
| 19:18.05 | Shirik | Cide: I got it |
| 19:18.06 | Shirik | <3 |
| 19:18.10 | ScytheBlade1 | there is gitdaemon or similar |
| 19:18.13 | ScytheBlade1 | but it is read only |
| 19:18.18 | ScytheBlade1 | most all git dev is done over ssh |
| 19:18.30 | Shirik | ew |
| 19:18.48 | Shirik | so I'm sitting here on a windows PC |
| 19:18.52 | Shirik | how do I get someone to pull from me? |
| 19:18.56 | ScytheBlade1 | you *can* push it over HTTP, and write to it with webdav enabled |
| 19:19.15 | ScytheBlade1 | generally, you don't, because NAT sucks |
| 19:20.33 | ScytheBlade1 | it more or less requires a *nix server right now, though you'll get an equal level of support using windows shares |
| 19:20.55 | ScytheBlade1 | (but probably not over the general internet) |
| 19:21.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah (n=James@5ad3ebfb.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:23.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 19:23.55 | Kraps | Natalie Portman rapping is hilarious |
| 19:24.14 | Kraps | and hot |
| 19:24.27 | durcyn | Kraps: you seen her on Between Two Ferns yet? |
| 19:24.39 | Kraps | no, whats that |
| 19:25.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 19:25.34 | Cide | Kraps: where? |
| 19:25.47 | Kraps | Cide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8e6-IeQ0aw |
| 19:26.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 19:26.48 | Lopeppeppy | Okay, I've slaved my butt off all day... I got through the list, have an hour left of work, and I cannot brain. Yay me! |
| 19:27.28 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1, so I have to create an ssh account for everyone using it? |
| 19:27.49 | ScytheBlade1 | or use a single account, with multiple keys listed in authorized_keys |
| 19:27.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 19:27.55 | durcyn | Lopeppeppy: Two Beer Lunch? |
| 19:28.19 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: Is there a way to authenticate beyond ssh? |
| 19:28.36 | ScytheBlade1 | git in and of itself has zero identity mechanisms |
| 19:28.44 | Lopeppeppy | Tempting, durcyn, but lunch was 3.5 hours ago. :P |
| 19:28.44 | Shirik | so how do I enforce usernames? |
| 19:28.49 | Shirik | just through ssh? |
| 19:28.54 | Shirik | Does git listen to the username specified in ssh? |
| 19:29.12 | ScytheBlade1 | er |
| 19:29.23 | ScytheBlade1 | You're thinking too much svn |
| 19:29.37 | ScytheBlade1 | If you want to give someone write access, you create an account with write access |
| 19:29.38 | durcyn | git push git@foo:/path/to/repo |
| 19:29.44 | durcyn | is the traditional method |
| 19:29.53 | ScytheBlade1 | If you want an account with read access, you create an account, and add just read access |
| 19:30.03 | ScytheBlade1 | git has no concept of repo-based users |
| 19:30.22 | foxlit | http://scie.nti.st/2007/11/14/hosting-git-repositories-the-easy-and-secure-way |
| 19:31.08 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 19:31.11 | ScytheBlade1 | I would not call that [gitosis] easy or any more secure than a standard user account |
| 19:33.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: define 'enforce usernames' |
| 19:33.14 | Shirik | ok when something is pushed to the server |
| 19:33.20 | Shirik | doesn't it track who made the change? |
| 19:33.36 | kd3 | yes. we need to know who to blame |
| 19:33.46 | ScytheBlade1 | not in the sense that you're thinking |
| 19:33.51 | ScytheBlade1 | it pushes the commits + history |
| 19:33.57 | ScytheBlade1 | which are all local to the person pushing |
| 19:34.06 | Shirik | right, so how do I know the commits weren't made with a bogus name |
| 19:34.10 | Shirik | or, for example, someone else's name |
| 19:34.14 | ScytheBlade1 | You don't |
| 19:34.20 | Shirik | isn't that....bad? |
| 19:34.22 | ScytheBlade1 | You beat your developers over the head with a stick if they do that |
| 19:34.37 | foxlit | [and you know which one of them to beat how?] |
| 19:34.38 | ScytheBlade1 | no, because random person Z doesn't have write access |
| 19:34.57 | NightHawkTheSane | are you planning on developing in an environment where you expect your devs to lie about their commits? |
| 19:35.06 | Shirik | well I hope not |
| 19:35.12 | Shirik | but it raises a valid question |
| 19:35.38 | durcyn | it raises some bullshit handwringing, revert the commit and disable their access and get on with your damn life |
| 19:35.45 | durcyn | ffs. |
| 19:35.56 | NightHawkTheSane | the question i see is that you're planning on working with people who you think might lie to you :P |
| 19:36.01 | ScytheBlade1 | you could have someone clone the repo and rewrite the entire thing under your name |
| 19:36.04 | ScytheBlade1 | it's distributed |
| 19:36.12 | ScytheBlade1 | they could then publish that repo under your name |
| 19:36.13 | alestane | It doesn't sound like you use git if detailed accoutnability is your foremost concern. |
| 19:36.33 | foxlit | SB1: and yet it [validating who committed what] is not an impossible problem to solve |
| 19:36.35 | durcyn | its purposes is decentralization, which seems contrary to Shirik's goal |
| 19:36.39 | durcyn | purpose* |
| 19:37.05 | ScytheBlade1 | foxlit: that's true. the question is, if the effort is worth it for a very small team |
| 19:37.06 | Cide | durcyn: disable whose commit access? :P |
| 19:37.13 | durcyn | Cide: yours! |
| 19:37.14 | ScytheBlade1 | this is also assuming that everyone works out of the same repo |
| 19:37.18 | Shirik | why Cide's |
| 19:37.20 | ScytheBlade1 | as opposed to their own |
| 19:37.35 | Shirik | well ScytheBlade1, you just said "generally you don't pull" |
| 19:37.35 | foxlit | It doesn't matter. |
| 19:37.45 | foxlit | Just require pushes to be signed with a known key. |
| 19:37.56 | foxlit | You have a key? Good. Sign it, or your commit isn't going in. |
| 19:38.00 | Shirik | so if people push instead of pull, then it follows that there must be some common repo |
| 19:38.07 | ScytheBlade1 | sure |
| 19:38.11 | foxlit | You do not have anyone else's key, so you cannot pretend to be anyone. |
| 19:38.25 | Shirik | but there is no mapping between they key and the developer |
| 19:38.29 | ScytheBlade1 | and then the project manager can then pick what he cares about |
| 19:38.41 | Shirik | so you might have write access, and then say "oh it's actually Cide making this push tehehehe" |
| 19:39.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Which, in the example of the xmms2 project as I linked yesterday |
| 19:39.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Is why each developer has their own repo |
| 19:39.27 | ScytheBlade1 | And only a couple people at most have write access to the master repo |
| 19:39.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Developers push to *their* server side repo, managers pull/merge those in to the master |
| 19:42.58 | Cide | yeah, now *that's* easier :P |
| 19:44.05 | ScytheBlade1 | when you consider how 'hard' git branching/merging is, it sounds a lot harder than it actually is |
| 19:45.05 | Cide | I mostly meant 'clumsy' as opposed to 'difficult' |
| 19:45.36 | ScytheBlade1 | not really |
| 19:47.53 | Arrowmaster | ok that was a very unexpected feature to find, hovering the mouse over a wav file in nautilus starts playing it..... |
| 19:49.14 | Cide | you're an unexpected feature |
| 19:49.35 | kd3 | it'll play any file gstreamer can decode |
| 19:49.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Philemon (i=Philemon@pool-173-67-144-5.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:51.09 | Arrowmaster | lucky it doesnt start playing video files when hovering over them |
| 19:51.11 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 19:55.17 | zenzelezz | yeah, always awkward when your porn starts playing at work |
| 19:55.28 | Lopeppeppy | Tsk tsk for having it available at work! |
| 19:56.14 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb__ (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 19:56.20 | Pharaun | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:57.14 | durcyn | ForceQuit() works in macros? |
| 19:57.25 | Sesshu | no |
| 19:57.41 | Pharaun | Yea it does |
| 19:57.49 | Pharaun | I just quit my client using it |
| 19:59.28 | Sesshu | ah ok |
| 19:59.37 | Cide | I have a shorter version |
| 19:59.44 | Sesshu | forcelogout is protected... |
| 19:59.53 | Cide | /run ForceQuit() |
| 20:00.02 | mikma | cide: ya =D |
| 20:00.06 | Pharaun | Yea, but the point was to obfuscate it a tiny bit to make it not easily apparent to people who can't read code |
| 20:00.29 | Cide | /run _G["Force".."Quit"]() |
| 20:00.31 | Pharaun | and then tag it on the end of a macro for someone who's being a total d-bag |
| 20:00.40 | durcyn | if someone's going to copy and paste your macro without reading it, obfuscation doesn't realy seem worth it. |
| 20:00.45 | Pharaun | true |
| 20:00.48 | durcyn | but whatever tickles your dick. |
| 20:01.12 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 20:01.45 | foxlit | oh please. /run CreateFrame("Frame"):SetScript("OnUpdate", function() _G[next(_G)] = nil; end); |
| 20:01.53 | alestane | I did sort of like that macro that replaces all your macros with one that spams "Durp durp durp"...and re-replaces all your macros when it does so. |
| 20:03.23 | Sesshu | hm no /run while do end |
| 20:03.23 | Sesshu | 1 |
| 20:03.24 | Sesshu | ! |
| 20:03.24 | Sesshu | while true do end* |
| 20:03.56 | Cide | /run WorldFrame:Hide() |
| 20:03.58 | Cide | is eviler |
| 20:04.06 | Cide | if that's even a word |
| 20:04.14 | Sesshu | one of my favorite |
| 20:04.19 | mikma | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:04.30 | alestane | Won't do anything. |
| 20:04.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-188-150.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 20:04.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 20:04.59 | Lopeppeppy | Seeeeeerah! :) |
| 20:05.24 | foxlit | WorldFrame:SetScript("OnMouseDown", function() end); |
| 20:05.47 | Sesshu | hm |
| 20:06.04 | Sesshu | you have to make something with the anachors of the world frame |
| 20:06.15 | Sesshu | and userplaced(true) |
| 20:06.29 | alestane | I don't think the WorldFrame uses an OnMouseDoen script, either. |
| 20:06.39 | foxlit | alestane: That's the beauty of it. |
| 20:06.40 | End | making the world frame drag would be fun |
| 20:06.48 | foxlit | I invite you to see what happens :) |
| 20:06.57 | Sesshu | (End): yes that is fun! |
| 20:07.18 | End | getting addon frames stuck to the cursor wasn't fun enough! |
| 20:08.36 | Pharaun | <3 you guys XD |
| 20:08.51 | Sesshu | yea i love me too |
| 20:09.50 | End | hm |
| 20:10.08 | Sesshu | hm |
| 20:10.51 | End | that's just slightly annoying |
| 20:11.15 | End | I like how it clips the actual display to the edge of the screen |
| 20:11.53 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:12.49 | End | (so my character can't go off the screen, because its centered in the visible WorldFrame) |
| 20:13.11 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 20:15.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-095-208-172-199.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
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| 20:27.21 | kd3 | how do I do a regex match for formatted whole numbers with thousands separators? (e.g. 12,345) |
| 20:27.46 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 20:28.11 | cncfanatics | kd3: ([%d][,]?)* |
| 20:28.21 | cncfanatics | replace %d with whatever your regex engine uses for digits |
| 20:28.24 | cncfanatics | that should work I think |
| 20:28.35 | cncfanatics | (oh, this is wowuidev, oops, won't work in lua :p) |
| 20:28.54 | kd3 | not worried about lua. hacking around in python atm >.> |
| 20:29.36 | cncfanatics | should work in python |
| 20:29.57 | cncfanatics | or just get rid of the seperators with replace before matching |
| 20:30.17 | Duman | hmm |
| 20:31.35 | devZero | question... When writing an addon, would it be better to use hooks, or to run a function based on an event? I know their both pretty much will fire the same time ( i.e. Event fires function, which could be hooked ), but I'd just thought I'd get clarification. |
| 20:31.57 | devZero | trying to conform to any best practices... If any |
| 20:32.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Use events where available |
| 20:32.14 | mikma | devzero: always go with event when other option is hooking. |
| 20:32.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Otherwise use hooks |
| 20:32.22 | devZero | thanks |
| 20:32.40 | devZero | I've been using events, just seen some addons just go straight to hooking, so I wasn't sure. |
| 20:32.53 | devZero | hahaha... "hooking" |
| 20:32.59 | devZero | goes back to work |
| 20:33.00 | mikma | hooking is sometimes the only option |
| 20:33.03 | durcyn | yes, prostitution jokes are hilarious |
| 20:33.12 | devZero | durcyn: glad you agree :) |
| 20:33.17 | durcyn | sex for money, luuuuuul? |
| 20:33.35 | Sesshu | sex? where? |
| 20:33.46 | roastx | make sure your functions are protected if you hook them |
| 20:33.46 | devZero | points @ durcyn |
| 20:34.30 | devZero | roastx: what sort of things would happen if a hook wasn't secure? |
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| 20:35.01 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o jnwhiteh] by irc.freenode.net |
| 20:35.01 | cncfanatics | this is what happens when you talk about sex, freenode netsplits >.> |
| 20:35.18 | roastx | it might open a hole and put alot of white spaces in your data file |
| 20:35.18 | Pharaun | jesus |
| 20:35.18 | Pharaun | remind me not to let my friends in this channel, ha |
| 20:35.44 | devZero | Probably shouldn't talk about friends either... I hear the ircd gets jealous |
| 20:36.09 | roastx | FRIENDS DETECTS - INTRUDER ALERT - INTRUDER ALERT |
| 20:36.11 | devZero | It's a side effect from spawning children |
| 20:36.51 | mikma | UUUUAAAA UUUUUAAAAAAA UUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
| 20:37.03 | tekkub | k |
| 20:37.31 | Cloudwolf | freenode splosions are interesting |
| 20:38.14 | mikma | BYE BYE REPO |
| 20:38.20 | mikma | whoops, caps |
| 20:38.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:38.33 | mikma | btw, what the hell is curse repo-bot doing here |
| 20:38.43 | roastx | its just freeing nodes |
| 20:38.44 | mikma | kick it kick iiiiiit |
| 20:38.48 | roastx | normal behavior |
| 21:00.29 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter_ (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 21:01.25 | Kaso| | Does renaming change guid? |
| 21:05.54 | mikma | pay & try & tell us |
| 21:10.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@ip503d59c0.speed.planet.nl) |
| 21:14.15 | Dewin | Kaso|: I believe it does not. |
| 21:14.36 | Dewin | a portion of the guid is based on realm, and server transfers keep their old guid IIRC |
| 21:14.48 | Kaso| | interesting |
| 21:14.53 | ScytheBlade1 | ... no |
| 21:15.08 | ScytheBlade1 | GUIDs are realm specific and contain no intrinsic realm data |
| 21:15.37 | Dewin | Scytheblade1: What I meant is that characters creating on realm X have a guid with some portion unique* to realm X. |
| 21:15.47 | Dewin | and even if they're transferred, their guid does not change. |
| 21:15.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Wrong |
| 21:15.58 | ScytheBlade1 | If transfered, the GUID changes |
| 21:16.07 | ScytheBlade1 | If moved from account to account, but stays on the same server |
| 21:16.10 | ScytheBlade1 | The GUID changes |
| 21:16.22 | Dewin | Hmmm. |
| 21:16.26 | ScytheBlade1 | A player GUID consists of one thing |
| 21:16.39 | ScytheBlade1 | An int, expressed in hex, using a simple +1 counter specific to that realm |
| 21:16.50 | Dewin | oh, you're right, I misremembered what I read on wiki |
| 21:17.00 | Dewin | "Renaming a character does not trigger a new GUID, as that process is much simpler than a full character move. " |
| 21:17.06 | ScytheBlade1 | wrote that |
| 21:19.27 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/spotthebusey.jpg |
| 21:20.03 | End | I wonder if it lets you keep the same guid if you only move inside the battlegroup |
| 21:20.09 | ScytheBlade1 | nope |
| 21:20.13 | Dewin | Oh god, has that meme spread even more? |
| 21:20.34 | ScytheBlade1 | GUIDs are server specific, not battlegroup specific |
| 21:24.26 | *** join/#wowuidev rgouveia (n=rgouveia@a213-22-229-11.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 21:26.03 | End | ScytheBlade1: they are battlegroup |
| 21:26.09 | End | or else XR bgs wouldn't work |
| 21:26.20 | ScytheBlade1 | wrong! |
| 21:26.29 | End | then how the hell does it handle battlegrounds? |
| 21:26.30 | ScytheBlade1 | they're masked with server specific IDs as needed |
| 21:27.11 | batrick | (If anyone wants a HoN (Heroes of Newerth) Beta key PM me) |
| 21:27.13 | End | I swore I saw slouken say other, but maybe not |
| 21:27.17 | End | otherwise |
| 21:27.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (n=TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 21:27.42 | foxlit | That sounds like a nightmare to actually test. |
| 21:29.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:30.58 | End | ScytheBlade1: how is it masked? |
| 21:31.34 | ScytheBlade1 | that I couldn't tell you. Also unsure of the scope in relation to the clients |
| 21:31.59 | End | well, it doesn't look masked to me |
| 21:32.13 | ScytheBlade1 | because there is no need, as there are no dupes in your current battleground |
| 21:32.29 | End | how the hell did you even determine there was masking then? |
| 21:32.47 | ScytheBlade1 | See, that's the question you should have asked in the first place |
| 21:32.50 | ScytheBlade1 | And I can't say :) |
| 21:32.55 | ScytheBlade1 | (Which... should tell you everything right there) |
| 21:33.30 | kd3 | >.> |
| 21:33.41 | foxlit | You are worthless, Alec Baldwin. |
| 21:33.44 | End | well, obviously you DO need to tell which bg they are in |
| 21:33.59 | End | er |
| 21:34.00 | End | I mean |
| 21:34.01 | End | server |
| 21:34.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 21:34.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 21:34.32 | ScytheBlade1 | right - which the BG servers are aware of |
| 21:34.51 | ScytheBlade1 | They know which realm the character data is coming from |
| 21:34.53 | End | well |
| 21:35.00 | End | it's definitely unmasked when -I- get it |
| 21:35.19 | End | I being the guy using UnitGUID |
| 21:35.49 | mikma | http://wowinterface.com/downloads/info14537-WsTurnIn.html <- anyone care to explain what's the idea in this one? what Warsong marks?! |
| 21:35.53 | End | maybe the switch on some extra bits if there's dupes, but I'd need to see something more concrete to believe that |
| 21:36.11 | ScytheBlade1 | no, it is only masked /when needed/ - or when there is a dupe in the BG |
| 21:36.22 | ScytheBlade1 | note: I'm getting epic packet loss, so, bear with me if I lag several minutes behind |
| 21:36.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-68-57-187-183.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 21:36.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125-239-28-214.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 21:36.44 | End | ah |
| 21:37.08 | ScytheBlade1 | and no, I've never seen a masked GUID in a BG |
| 21:37.14 | End | well still, I have nothing but your word |
| 21:37.18 | ScytheBlade1 | true |
| 21:37.28 | ScytheBlade1 | And I have nothing but (person X's) word |
| 21:37.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Burgundy (i=bingothe@188.26.247.111) |
| 21:37.48 | ScytheBlade1 | I just kinda trust person X on the matter |
| 21:38.28 | End | I could try an inter-battlegroup transfer to try to prove you wrong, but that takes money on something I don't care enough to check :P |
| 21:38.41 | foxlit | wait, inter? |
| 21:38.47 | End | and that'd assume they did shortcuts in their transfer process |
| 21:38.54 | ScytheBlade1 | I know for a fact that any transfers in any form change the GUID |
| 21:39.02 | ScytheBlade1 | that is first hand experience |
| 21:39.45 | End | you actually thought to check before and after? |
| 21:39.49 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 21:40.28 | ScytheBlade1 | ... "because of how the process works (the character "ceases to exist" for a short period, and is then recreated)." |
| 21:40.32 | ScytheBlade1 | (me, on wowwiki) |
| 21:40.59 | Dagmar | That sounds very unsettling |
| 21:41.17 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd imagine that they take a backup first ;) |
| 21:41.24 | End | well |
| 21:41.32 | End | it has to exist somewhere, even if its in temporary memory :P |
| 21:41.49 | ScytheBlade1 | right |
| 21:41.51 | Dagmar | Yes, and temporary memory is temporary |
| 21:41.56 | End | but exist in the tables, yeah, I could see it being completely wiped before the new copy is made |
| 21:42.02 | ScytheBlade1 | but as far as the game servers are concerned |
| 21:42.16 | ScytheBlade1 | even account --> account but same server gets you a new GUID |
| 21:42.23 | End | interesting |
| 21:42.47 | ScytheBlade1 | It is also relatively easy to discover that GUIDs are server local |
| 21:42.53 | End | how so? |
| 21:43.04 | foxlit | Find a collision. |
| 21:43.04 | ScytheBlade1 | the trick is finding two servers in the same BG with "close enough" GUID stamps for character creation |
| 21:43.27 | End | the server has GUID stamps? |
| 21:43.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Every new character += GUID counter |
| 21:44.07 | ScytheBlade1 | The lower bytes of a character GUID = simple int counter, bigger is newer in terms of creation date |
| 21:44.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 21:44.47 | ScytheBlade1 | In any one battlegroup, you can have one server giving out GUIDs in the FFFFFFF range, while another is in the FFFF range, and another still is in the FFFF range |
| 21:45.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I created enough characters in rapid progress to find this out, and then had my theory confirmed with said random person X |
| 21:45.53 | ScytheBlade1 | s/progress/succession/ |
| 21:46.23 | foxlit | Meh. |
| 21:46.31 | foxlit | And you didn't level them to 10 to join WSG? Fail! |
| 21:46.38 | ScytheBlade1 | dear no |
| 21:51.30 | End | oh, duh, I know what you mean by guid stamps now |
| 21:51.45 | End | each server has a most recent guid that was created |
| 21:51.47 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 21:51.51 | ScytheBlade1 | right |
| 21:51.57 | End | I'm doing strat at the same time :P |
| 21:53.12 | mikma | hmm |
| 21:53.35 | mikma | two easiest 1h weapons for dk... http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45203 ? |
| 21:54.31 | ScytheBlade1 | hm |
| 21:54.33 | ScytheBlade1 | 17:43 < ScytheBlade1> Every new character += GUID counter |
| 21:54.35 | ScytheBlade1 | is wrong |
| 21:54.39 | ScytheBlade1 | I meant GUID counter += 1 |
| 21:54.44 | End | that what confused me I think |
| 21:54.52 | ScytheBlade1 | That probably would have made more sense in the first place |
| 21:55.15 | End | in fact, the way I understood it was contradicting your original claim |
| 21:55.21 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah, sorry |
| 21:56.07 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:56.15 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:56.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 21:59.31 | ScytheBlade1 | lua> 10612/60/60 |
| 21:59.31 | lua_bot | ScytheBlade1: 2.9477777777778 |
| 22:04.23 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn|phone (n=durcynph@166.205.7.2) |
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| 22:11.02 | devZero | question... I'm working with quite a few events, and I thought maybe I'd organize them and their function calls into an organized table... Here's an example --> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/123441 |
| 22:11.13 | devZero | the problem I'm running into, is that the function aren't firing with the event. |
| 22:14.16 | devZero | oops... sorry, I mixed up the SetScript and RegisterEvent ordering in the example... |
| 22:14.21 | devZero | it's correct in my code. |
| 22:14.36 | ScytheBlade1 | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/123443-34fk:123441-2x3e |
| 22:14.38 | ScytheBlade1 | try that |
| 22:15.07 | End | huh |
| 22:15.08 | foxlit | hey, no fair. |
| 22:15.08 | End | that's weird |
| 22:15.12 | mikma | devzero: i dont know is that a good idea, but looks nifty |
| 22:15.15 | foxlit | No fixing obvious errors and leaving the glaring issue in there :) |
| 22:15.22 | End | it gives "" as the server name for party members who aren't nearby |
| 22:15.25 | ScytheBlade1 | ssshhh |
| 22:15.43 | ScytheBlade1 | er |
| 22:15.43 | ScytheBlade1 | ha |
| 22:15.50 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah that's a pretty obvious error in hindsight |
| 22:15.55 | ScytheBlade1 | in any case I've gotta afk |
| 22:15.57 | ScytheBlade1 | foxlit: enjoy! |
| 22:16.21 | foxlit | Being helpful is against my policy, ScytheBlade1 :) |
| 22:16.27 | devZero | ScytheBlade1: I've also tried the method you're mentioning... Without the params in the table.. |
| 22:16.28 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 22:16.33 | devZero | unless I misunderstand L. |
| 22:17.23 | Arrowmaster | you have no idea how funny it is to me to have wow running on my new linux computer, standing in dalaran getting 30fps, while im messing with the compiz 3d cube rotate |
| 22:17.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-40-61.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:18.07 | Arrowmaster | my old windows computer couldnt pull off that fps in dalaran even when i wasnt fucking with other 3d apps at the same time |
| 22:20.38 | foxlit | cubes are cheap. |
| 22:20.45 | foxlit | Dalarans are the bottleneck :) |
| 22:21.43 | mikma | devzero: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/123444 <- all the pros do this! |
| 22:22.08 | bleeter | http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7308/microsoftlocalisation.jpg |
| 22:22.43 | *** part/#wowuidev rgouveia (n=rgouveia@a213-22-229-11.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 22:23.01 | mikma | bleeter: http://kuvaton.com/bshit/spotthebusey.jpg |
| 22:23.12 | devZero | mikma: really? That makes my eyes hurt |
| 22:23.47 | bleeter | mikma: heh |
| 22:23.52 | mikma | devzero: yah, see teks addons and you'll see the same pattern over and over |
| 22:23.55 | foxlit | All the pros just copy the wowwiki example :) |
| 22:24.14 | mikma | foxlit: no, teks addon template! |
| 22:24.39 | devZero | foxlit: I went to the wowwiki example, and it too made my eyes hurt... In essence I'm doing the same thing, but I'm storing my data in a table for easy reference during later development. |
| 22:24.39 | tekkub | yea fuck wowwiki that shit's years old |
| 22:25.02 | foxlit | the particular shit I'm peddling at the moment is fresh, man. |
| 22:25.08 | tekkub | plus if what I think it is, it's slow and wasteful |
| 22:25.42 | tekkub | foxlit: linky? |
| 22:25.47 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/Handling_events |
| 22:26.01 | tekkub | oh I thought we were talking localization |
| 22:26.14 | foxlit | Yes. Localization tutorials suck. |
| 22:26.31 | foxlit | [The conversation was probably about event handlers] |
| 22:26.49 | tekkub | hrm, wowwiki's makes an unnecessary table, but handles all the registration for you |
| 22:26.52 | foxlit | And there are like three of them. |
| 22:26.58 | tekkub | ASSUMING you want the events registered at al times |
| 22:27.32 | tekkub | and wowwiki's is out of date anyway :P |
| 22:27.38 | tekkub | the note about the global args |
| 22:28.11 | foxlit | Someone undeprecated them? |
| 22:28.27 | mikma | i'm still going after teks code! muahaha |
| 22:28.45 | tekkub | I t hought they were gone now that the default handlers were all converted to proper args |
| 22:29.07 | foxlit | They exist in their own limbo world. |
| 22:29.08 | tekkub | they were only around in 2.0 because shit like the chat handler still used them |
| 22:30.12 | foxlit | They exist on live. |
| 22:31.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (n=Cralor`@c-98-216-219-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:31.18 | foxlit | [ local f = CreateFrame("Frame"); f:RegisterAllEvents(): f:SetScript("OnEvent", function() print(event); end); ] |
| 22:31.21 | Pneumatus | nothing populates arg1..9 anymore do they? |
| 22:31.50 | mikma | foxlit: lawl |
| 22:32.02 | foxlit | Pneumatus: every event dispatch does. |
| 22:32.26 | Cralor` | New format: local arg1, arg2 = ... |
| 22:32.29 | Pneumatus | surely /dump arg1, arg2, arg3, arg4, arg5, arg6, arg7, arg8, arg9 would return something other than nils if that were the case? |
| 22:32.56 | foxlit | Bad assumption :) |
| 22:33.12 | foxlit | They only exist during the event dispatch. |
| 22:33.13 | Pneumatus | they get cleaned up immediately then? |
| 22:33.41 | foxlit | I'm not entirely sure what's going on -- they could be cleared, or it could be an environment trick -- but you can observe that by using an argument-less OnEvent handler. |
| 22:33.54 | Cralor` | function Frame_OnEvent(self, event, ...) |
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| 22:41.52 | *** part/#wowuidev daev` (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 22:46.11 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:47.13 | devZero | ... |
| 22:47.25 | devZero | *facepalm* |
| 22:47.56 | alestane | Not sure how much I like Adium's IRC display. Colloquy was much more compact. |
| 22:48.08 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/170665062 |
| 22:48.11 | Kraps | i want cataclysm NOW |
| 22:48.17 | Lopeppeppy | Does it work? |
| 22:48.24 | alestane | Good luck with that. |
| 22:48.42 | alestane | lopeppeppy: Does what work? |
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| 22:49.33 | Lopeppeppy | Does Adium at least work? |
| 22:49.53 | alestane | It does, although its GUI for joining rooms doesn't handle passwords well. |
| 22:50.05 | alestane | But Colloquy wasn't much better at that. |
| 22:51.02 | alestane | And it also supports most other chat types like AIM, which is what I used it for before. |
| 22:51.22 | alestane | I'm torn between the only needing one program, and teh fact that Colloquy is more readable. |
| 22:51.32 | Lopeppeppy | Ah. |
| 22:51.37 | Lopeppeppy | I stuck with only needing one program. |
| 22:55.22 | alestane | Hrm, mount_nfs says "No such file or directory" when it trys to retrieve my share. |
| 22:55.36 | Cralor` | How can I accomplish a large editbox so I could make a "Note" frame? |
| 22:56.01 | alestane | Maybe look and see how the macro editbox does it? |
| 22:56.13 | Cralor` | Hmm.. worth a try |
| 22:56.51 | Aelobin | hmm you can't convert triumph into conquest? :< |
| 22:57.18 | foxlit | Not yet. |
| 22:57.34 | foxlit | Large edit boxes are a pain. |
| 22:57.54 | Aelobin | can you exchange them in the next season/patch? |
| 22:57.56 | foxlit | It's a multiline editbox inside a scrollframe and a bunch of supporting code to make scrolling work properly. |
| 22:58.05 | NightHawkTheSane | >.> okay, dumb question. aside from stormwind harbor, what's the other alliance place to get to northrend? |
| 22:58.18 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: Menethil |
| 22:58.19 | Aelobin | menethil harbor in wetlands |
| 22:58.20 | kdtresh | menethil |
| 22:58.29 | NightHawkTheSane | thank you |
| 23:00.32 | alestane | showmount says nothing is being shared, hmm. |
| 23:02.50 | alestane | Which is only funny because Directory Utility says the server appears to be working. |
| 23:02.59 | mikma | nighthawkthesane: anywhere from mage portal! |
| 23:03.49 | Kraps | http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/3444/The-List-Five-Infuriating-MMOs.html |
| 23:04.56 | mikma | thats shiiiit kraps |
| 23:05.17 | Kraps | what is this i dont even |
| 23:06.29 | NightHawkTheSane | mikma: i'm on a warrior. that i haven't played in... a couple years? |
| 23:08.27 | mikma | nighthawkthesane: and you cant bribe mage to give you a portal because of...? |
| 23:09.24 | NightHawkTheSane | because i dont know anyone on this server, apparently only have ~50g, and don't feel like pestering mages when i'm just going to go to one of the entry points anyway :P |
| 23:10.13 | mikma | try: /1 wtb portal to dalaran, 10g! |
| 23:11.09 | ScytheBlade1 | 10g is really freaking weak |
| 23:11.48 | mikma | usually gets my alts to dalaran ^^ |
| 23:12.01 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a 50g minimum =] |
| 23:12.36 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont even want to -go- to dalarn :P |
| 23:12.39 | NightHawkTheSane | dalaran* |
| 23:12.41 | mikma | being crazy is not asking, its paying |
| 23:12.55 | Lopeppeppy | "But I don't wanna go to Alderan!" |
| 23:13.39 | NightHawkTheSane | huh, apparently this character still had a full pre-bc FR set |
| 23:15.15 | mikma | vann ist invites to bolton moor |
| 23:22.11 | ScytheBlade1 | so when is this onyxia revamp going to be public? |
| 23:22.31 | ScytheBlade1 | because I've played too long to miss out on this one-shot pet just for logging in |
| 23:23.15 | alestane | The vanity pet should be awarded if you log in in the first week of November. |
| 23:23.25 | alestane | Fifth-Anniversary special. |
| 23:23.39 | ScytheBlade1 | So I have several months then |
| 23:23.49 | Lopeppeppy | November is a stunning month. |
| 23:24.03 | ScytheBlade1 | My account has been dead since march-ish |
| 23:24.22 | ScytheBlade1 | But I have two accounts, so I'll just use a scroll of resurrection on the both of them and tada |
| 23:24.26 | ScytheBlade1 | free pet |
| 23:25.35 | Lopeppeppy | Ta da |
| 23:25.38 | ScytheBlade1 | =] |
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| 23:58.35 | alestane | There, my share finally appears to be working correctly. |
| 23:58.54 | alestane | At least, I can see its contents remotely. |
| 23:59.14 | Lopeppeppy | Excellent start. |
| 23:59.50 | alestane | Now I think I need to reboot. |
| 23:59.56 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=Adium@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
