| 00:00.15 | Lunessa | Going home. Dinner, raid, and iMac time. |
| 00:01.26 | Kraps_ | http://notalwaysright.com/our-great-dumbocracy/1357 |
| 00:03.13 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:18.23 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@78-86-82-152.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:27.55 | *** join/#wowuidev sacarasc_ (i=sacarasc@cpc3-kemp3-0-0-cust48.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:34.20 | Kraps_ | http://notalwaysright.com/paging-leonidas-to-the-front-desk/1218 |
| 00:36.03 | Duman | heh |
| 00:37.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@78.151.178.104) |
| 00:41.00 | Shirik | rawr |
| 00:41.06 | Gryphon | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 00:41.11 | Shirik | licks Gryphon |
| 00:41.15 | Gryphon | licks Shirik |
| 00:41.38 | Kraps_ | halo 3 is rated M? |
| 00:41.58 | Shirik | why wouldn't it be |
| 00:42.20 | Kraps_ | its just an fps |
| 00:42.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 00:42.27 | Kraps_ | i think |
| 00:42.35 | Kraps_ | like CoD |
| 00:42.46 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 00:42.54 | Shirik | All of them were rated M |
| 00:43.11 | Kraps_ | interesting |
| 00:44.01 | Thunder_Child | "just an fps"? there are few thing more graphic than and FPS |
| 00:44.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 00:45.03 | Kraps_ | what |
| 00:45.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 00:46.08 | Kraps_ | is it extra bloody? |
| 00:47.09 | theorbtwo | Most people consider "clearly sciencefictiony" to make something less evil, and "violence against aliens" as less evil then "violence against humans". |
| 00:48.44 | Kraps_ | CoD 4 is M too |
| 00:51.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-23-218.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:51.49 | Thunder_Child | hell duke nukem was prolly the first mainstream game with porn in it |
| 00:52.02 | Kraps_ | http://notalwaysright.com/how-to-scam-a-scammer-part-3/242 |
| 00:53.02 | Dashkal | hrm, how is the 3dr liquidation going? I wanna know who gets the duke nukem 3d franchaise |
| 00:56.08 | Shirik | olllld Kraps_ |
| 00:58.46 | tem | POTATOES |
| 01:05.01 | Shirik | POTATTOES |
| 01:05.43 | sacarasc_ | POEHTAYTTOESES |
| 01:05.54 | Thunder_Child | idiots |
| 01:08.04 | sacarasc | That's me! |
| 01:08.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 01:12.47 | bleeter | eagles and turkies |
| 01:13.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (n=Taroven@HW-ESR1-208-102-197-5.fuse.net) |
| 01:18.49 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@c-68-62-175-169.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 01:18.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 01:20.49 | bleeter | http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1268.jpg |
| 01:20.54 | bleeter | safe for work |
| 01:22.57 | Shirik | poor X :( |
| 01:23.19 | Corrodias | now if any of those promises were feasible or even possible... |
| 01:23.32 | Corrodias | threats, i should say |
| 01:27.47 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/2645/ghost-wolf/ |
| 01:27.53 | Adys | atchoo-think? |
| 01:59.46 | End | Adys: it feels less confusing at least |
| 01:59.58 | Adys | hurray! |
| 02:00.43 | bleeter | http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vistahardware/thread/720108ee-0a9c-4090-b62d-bbd5cb1a7605 |
| 02:08.43 | *** join/#wowuidev ilovemrdoe (i=ddd@anon-9-149.ipredate.net) |
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| 02:14.29 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraioc_ (n=sioraioc@78-86-82-152.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 02:14.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (i=dagmar@c-98-193-197-72.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 02:18.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Tierrie (n=tierrie@209.172.101.206) |
| 02:18.45 | Cairenn|afk | tacklehugs Tierrie! |
| 02:18.49 | Cairenn|afk | hey stranger! :) |
| 02:18.59 | Tierrie | haha is that a mIRC script sexy? |
| 02:19.10 | Tierrie | i half expected to be trout slapped |
| 02:19.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Dolby (n=Dolby@MMOI/Administrator/Dolby) |
| 02:19.19 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Dolby] by ChanServ |
| 02:19.19 | bleeter | mIRC?! |
| 02:19.22 | Tierrie | sssh |
| 02:19.30 | bleeter | Cairenn|afk: TRAITOR!! :P |
| 02:19.43 | Tierrie | hugs Cairenn|afk |
| 02:19.44 | Cairenn|afk | Tierrie: no, it isn't |
| 02:19.52 | Tierrie | hey Ackis you there? :) |
| 02:19.55 | Cairenn|afk | bleeter: as if! sheesh, you know me better than that |
| 02:19.57 | Tierrie | pokes Ackis |
| 02:20.09 | bleeter | Cairenn|afk: yeah, that's what scares me ;) |
| 02:20.36 | Tierrie | long time no see Cairenn.. anonymous trysts not withstanding ;) |
| 02:20.46 | *** join/#wowuidev aesir (n=Aesir@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Aesir) |
| 02:21.45 | Cairenn|afk | ;) |
| 02:28.17 | Kraps_ | hey Tierrie havent seen you before, are you dev/hacker too? |
| 02:28.32 | Cairenn|afk | he's a trouble maker, is what he is! |
| 02:28.38 | Cairenn|afk | snuggles Tierrie |
| 02:30.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (i=dagmar@c-98-193-197-72.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 02:30.37 | Thunder_Child | he has the honor of being the 1st perrson to get a peice of Cairenn|afk's ass |
| 02:30.42 | Cairenn|afk | lol |
| 02:30.45 | kd3 | ! |
| 02:30.50 | Kraps_ | dayum |
| 02:30.53 | Thunder_Child | from IRC anyway |
| 02:30.58 | Cairenn | not precisely the first, but yeah ... ;) |
| 02:31.55 | theorbtwo | applauds. |
| 02:32.13 | bleeter | have blizz got off their bums and produced a 'patch any WotLK->3.1.3' yet? |
| 02:32.31 | bleeter | can't seem to find one on his local mirror, if such a beast exists |
| 02:33.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 02:34.03 | Kraps_ | lame, normal ptr is down |
| 02:35.39 | Kraps_ | pally q&a is up |
| 02:36.13 | Kraps_ | In this segment, we will be talking with Greg Street |
| 02:36.25 | Kraps_ | what hes not CG anymore? |
| 02:37.29 | Tierrie | Kraps: sorry i was distracted by a very amazing story told by a great story teller |
| 02:37.32 | bleeter | http://www.avg.com/jobs.nid-93712 |
| 02:37.45 | bleeter | ^^ for the EU OSX developers.. if there are any |
| 02:37.56 | Kraps_ | Tierrie: what story? |
| 02:37.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:37.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:38.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 02:38.18 | Tierrie | Kraps: lol.. it was a fine fine ass, and my regret that it had a see, but no touch policy |
| 02:38.23 | Tierrie | at that time anyway ;) |
| 02:38.33 | Cairenn | chuckles again |
| 02:38.34 | Kraps_ | oooo |
| 02:38.54 | Tierrie | the story of how someone fell down a rabbit hole and got to rome ;) |
| 02:39.06 | Cairenn | he seems to like my write up |
| 02:39.20 | Tierrie | i am on saturday and i had to stop |
| 02:39.42 | Tierrie | you should read it Kraps, its a great story |
| 02:39.50 | Cairenn | bah |
| 02:40.03 | Cairenn | it's not like I'm a professional tourist writer or something |
| 02:40.28 | Tierrie | you know how some stories just tell you "well blah blah is happening, blah blah he got stuck with a sword" |
| 02:40.33 | Tierrie | and you have to imagine all that crap yourself? |
| 02:40.51 | Tierrie | well, i think the best writers describe all that |
| 02:41.00 | Thunder_Child | thats the differnce between a movie and a book |
| 02:41.46 | Tierrie | the tiny details like "fresh fruits" just kind of adds a folksy feel to the story |
| 02:44.36 | Tierrie | time to run, see you later guys, and TC and Cairenn ;) |
| 02:44.46 | Cairenn | snuggles Tierrie some more |
| 02:45.16 | Tierrie | Kraps: yes i used to be an ui dev, did a couple of huds, then i quit wow, started scuba diving, riding motorcycles, and generally doing things people should not do sober |
| 02:45.30 | Cairenn | lol |
| 02:45.34 | Kraps | DAYUM |
| 02:45.48 | Kraps | are you back to wow? |
| 02:46.03 | Tierrie | ah no, but i am thinking of going to blizzcon so i can get some good photographs |
| 02:46.15 | Kraps | when did you quit? |
| 02:46.17 | Tierrie | i went 3 years ago, and my blizzcon photos are some of my bests |
| 02:46.36 | Tierrie | now that i am better, i think i can get some more amazing photos |
| 02:47.04 | Tierrie | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tierrie/2107683941/in/set-72157601245826900/ |
| 02:47.42 | Kraps | damn whos that? |
| 02:47.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 02:48.07 | Tierrie | human priest |
| 02:48.11 | Tierrie | female i think ;) |
| 02:48.37 | Kraps | lulz i thought it was someone you know |
| 02:48.47 | Tierrie | i know her boyfriend |
| 02:48.52 | Cairenn | oh good, at least there isn't one particular one as part of that group :p |
| 02:48.57 | Cairenn | I don't have to kill you |
| 02:49.05 | kd3 | lmao |
| 02:49.17 | Tierrie | part of what group? |
| 02:49.24 | Cairenn | your favourites |
| 02:49.46 | Kraps | whoa Cairenn what are we missing? |
| 02:49.52 | Kraps | <.< |
| 02:49.58 | Kraps | >.> |
| 02:50.01 | Cairenn | exactly what TC said earlier |
| 02:50.02 | NightHawkTheSane | she's... averse... to pictures of her. :P |
| 02:50.05 | kd3 | >.> |
| 02:50.26 | kd3 | still remembers a few people running in to the ladies' room to drag a certain someone out for the group photo a few years ago |
| 02:50.27 | Tierrie | Cairenn: why do you think i am going to blizzcon again? |
| 02:50.32 | Cairenn | *grin* |
| 02:51.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 02:51.06 | Tierrie | have you seen it Kraps? The Picture? |
| 02:51.10 | Cairenn | it's still one of my favourite "nickname/description" though ;) |
| 02:51.25 | Kraps | Tierrie: the priest? |
| 02:51.30 | Kraps | yes |
| 02:51.32 | Tierrie | Cairenn's |
| 02:51.32 | Cairenn | "little frisky hamster, hopped up on sugar and crack" |
| 02:51.50 | Tierrie | lol |
| 02:51.56 | kd3 | oof, brox is still offline |
| 02:51.58 | Thunder_Child | i never thought it was that good since it was a picture of an ass.... |
| 02:52.05 | Kraps | Tierrie: no |
| 02:52.14 | Kraps | show me :p |
| 02:52.26 | Tierrie | looks at Cairenn for permission to paste the link |
| 02:52.35 | kd3 | has this image of Cairenn strangling half the channel over the net |
| 02:52.47 | Kraps | ^ |
| 02:52.58 | NightHawkTheSane | if there was fire over ip, we'd all be in flames. |
| 02:53.07 | Tierrie | lol well i got to run, so, she can't catch me anyway |
| 02:53.18 | Tierrie | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tierrie/1023663909/l/ <- cairenn /ignores you |
| 02:53.36 | Tierrie | noo |
| 02:53.39 | Thunder_Child | lol |
| 02:53.41 | Tierrie | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tierrie/1023663909/sizes/l/ |
| 02:53.41 | kd3 | lol |
| 02:53.51 | Tierrie | now she's /ignoring you |
| 02:54.13 | Kraps | rofl |
| 02:54.21 | Thunder_Child | it's her own damn faoult |
| 02:54.26 | Tierrie | cya guys ;) |
| 02:54.50 | Kraps | yeah Cairenn ass isnt everything ;) |
| 02:55.01 | theorbtwo | If Cairenn ignoring me looks like that, I hope she does. |
| 02:55.03 | theorbtwo | ducks. |
| 02:55.13 | Kraps | boing |
| 02:55.50 | Thunder_Child | you know imagining Cairenn cringing is amazing |
| 02:55.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (n=Arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 02:55.57 | Thunder_Child | it brings a smile to me face |
| 02:56.01 | Cairenn | heh |
| 02:56.17 | theorbtwo | Thunder_Child: You don't actually have to imagine it; there's a picture of her cringing if you click on the tag. |
| 02:56.36 | Thunder_Child | only thing that could be added is to invite some people into the "Cairenn Fan Club" |
| 02:56.37 | theorbtwo | Fortunately, there is also a picture of her not cringing, which looks about 1000% better |
| 02:56.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Tukz[BNC] (i=Tukz@c75.152.28-250.clta.globetrotter.net) |
| 02:57.47 | Arrowmaster | i really hate western digital |
| 02:58.40 | *** join/#wowuidev ecstasia (n=ecs@unaffiliated/ecstasia) |
| 02:59.24 | kd3 | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/d1b8d43cec662118bede4aba40ecb5e6.png |
| 02:59.27 | kd3 | wanders off |
| 02:59.36 | kd3 | (^ is sfw) |
| 02:59.44 | Arrowmaster | has yet another dead harddrive |
| 03:00.12 | Adys | [04:53:41] <Tierrie> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tierrie/1023663909/sizes/l/ |
| 03:00.14 | Adys | I laughed |
| 03:00.18 | Adys | mostly though |
| 03:00.24 | Adys | because of the "Download the larger size" above it |
| 03:00.39 | NightHawkTheSane | heh |
| 03:01.04 | Corrodias | i enjoy this image, but only a little. |
| 03:01.14 | Adys | Arrowmaster: what about WD? |
| 03:01.25 | Adys | I got an external hd for years from them |
| 03:01.29 | Thunder_Child | Adys, " Arrowmaster has yet another dead harddrive" |
| 03:01.34 | Arrowmaster | Adys: im upto a 72% failure rate with them |
| 03:01.43 | Arrowmaster | 8/11 dead |
| 03:01.45 | kd3 | your luck sucks |
| 03:01.49 | Iriel | What are you DOING to those poor drives? |
| 03:01.49 | Arrowmaster | no WD sucks |
| 03:02.06 | Arrowmaster | using them, what else |
| 03:02.06 | Adys | no |
| 03:02.08 | Adys | HDs suck |
| 03:02.09 | Arrowmaster | all internal drives |
| 03:02.19 | Adys | my next drive is a SSD |
| 03:02.28 | Adys | so heres hoping none fails until ssd prices are a bit lower. |
| 03:02.39 | Iriel | Arrowmaster: in one machine, or several? |
| 03:02.46 | Arrowmaster | one box |
| 03:03.05 | Iriel | Maybe there's something wrong with the box's power? or physical stability? |
| 03:03.23 | Thunder_Child | i dont think i have every had an HD fail |
| 03:03.32 | Iriel | I've had power outages take drives out |
| 03:03.37 | Arrowmaster | nope |
| 03:03.37 | kd3 | ^ |
| 03:03.47 | Iriel | And I had one of the more craptastic IBM deskstar drives fail after a few years |
| 03:03.57 | Iriel | but otherwise, pretty good luck |
| 03:04.22 | Arrowmaster | one that just failed came up in SMART as too many reallocations after it failed |
| 03:05.28 | VonhintenHOME` | Apparently Intel's gonna have a new SSD out soon |
| 03:05.53 | Thunder_Child | "Cooliris has released the latest version of its image browsing plug-in. Version 1.11 allows the Cooliris 3D Wall to be used within a browser tab, enabling toggling between tabs of image walls." thats better than the fullscreen crap it was doing |
| 03:06.13 | Iriel | The fullscreen was kind of fun |
| 03:06.17 | Thunder_Child | meh |
| 03:06.29 | Iriel | I built cooliris support into some tools at work for the hell of it 8-) |
| 03:06.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 03:12.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellbinder (i=Spellbin@c-ab7ce455.312-21-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 03:13.03 | Cairenn | hands ccox some chicken noodle soup and a fuzzy warm snuggly blanket |
| 03:13.13 | ccox | thanks Cairenn |
| 03:13.33 | ccox | now on antibiotic number 3, hope this one works |
| 03:13.38 | Cairenn | :( |
| 03:13.51 | Cairenn | hurry up and get feeling better so you can party with us at BC! |
| 03:14.06 | ccox | I'll try |
| 03:14.42 | Cairenn | :) |
| 03:16.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 03:18.13 | Kraps | i despise leveling :( |
| 03:20.00 | Shirik | !api veresion |
| 03:20.01 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'veresion'. |
| 03:20.04 | Shirik | !api version |
| 03:20.06 | lua_bot | Documentation for '_VERSION' can be found at http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-_VERSION |
| 03:20.10 | Shirik | you suck |
| 03:22.19 | *** join/#wowuidev ilovemrdoe (i=ddd@anon-9-149.ipredate.net) |
| 03:23.13 | Aqua | so what do you do when subverison looses your work |
| 03:25.41 | Codayus | Switch to mercurial. |
| 03:29.03 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/66109/ |
| 03:29.04 | Adys | COLORS |
| 03:29.12 | Adys | pwetty colors. |
| 03:29.44 | Shirik | Aqua: Subversion never looses work |
| 03:29.49 | Shirik | you tell it to lose work |
| 03:30.18 | Adys | switch to bzr |
| 03:30.19 | Shirik | either it's still there or you did something wrong |
| 03:30.27 | Adys | night all |
| 03:30.38 | bleeter | one can actually lose chanelog history with relative ease |
| 03:30.52 | bleeter | hg > bzr |
| 03:31.14 | Adys | foff |
| 03:31.15 | Adys | bzr > * |
| 03:31.19 | Adys | apart from git |
| 03:31.23 | Adys | which is a special case |
| 03:31.27 | Adys | anyway night |
| 03:31.45 | bleeter | serial source control < * |
| 03:31.48 | bleeter | gnight Adys |
| 03:32.01 | Shirik | bleeter? |
| 03:32.02 | Adys | it can be set to act like git |
| 03:32.04 | Adys | afk. |
| 03:32.07 | Shirik | How do you intend to do that? |
| 03:32.23 | bleeter | Shirik: do what? |
| 03:32.27 | Shirik | lose changelog |
| 03:35.01 | Kraps | wow cool http://www.flickr.com/photos/tierrie/1023986137/ |
| 03:35.07 | bleeter | try doing some funky branching, renaming, remerging etc., it's not that hard if one knows the downfalls of serial stuff. |
| 03:35.28 | bleeter | not quite in the right frame of mind to track down a demonstratable case, but they're out there and not uncommon |
| 03:35.43 | bleeter | long as I'm thinking the same thing... which I may not be coz (a) I'm stupid (b) not a good moment right now |
| 03:36.41 | Iriel | I think you may be.. it's perhaps easy to forget where somethng is... but i've never seen SVN actually forget something |
| 03:36.54 | Iriel | (may be NOT thinking the right thing, that is) |
| 03:37.01 | Shirik | bleeter, I think you would have to do something wrong to do it |
| 03:37.22 | Shirik | I have done some extremely extensive stuff in SVN |
| 03:37.29 | Shirik | and never once seen it forget something unless I did something wrong |
| 03:37.55 | Shirik | by the nature of what SVN does, it should be impossible |
| 03:42.19 | bleeter | maybe it's just my thinking that 'forget' relates to an ability to do stuff without human intervention |
| 03:42.25 | bleeter | or lack thereof |
| 03:44.39 | Kraps | a guild just defeated algalon 25 on my server, server first |
| 03:49.33 | Zyndrome | that's grate |
| 03:49.54 | Zyndrome | we cant kill him 10-man with a setup many others guilds have done him with |
| 03:49.59 | Zyndrome | sadly .... we dont have the same healers |
| 03:50.13 | Zyndrome | can't keep the raid or the tanks up for shit |
| 03:50.43 | Shirik | pop quiz |
| 03:50.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Conexion (n=chatzill@pool-98-111-94-121.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:50.50 | Shirik | what is common between all of the following: |
| 03:50.57 | Shirik | sol, vegas, pyxis, gemini |
| 03:51.59 | Corrodias | i suspect they are astronomy-related. not sure. |
| 03:52.11 | Shirik | hm |
| 03:52.15 | Shirik | !g pyxis |
| 03:52.16 | batbot | Shirik: Pyxis products | Cardinal Health <http://www.cardinal.com/pyxis/> |
| 03:52.23 | Shirik | !g pyxis astronomy |
| 03:52.23 | batbot | Shirik: Pyxis Astronomy <http://www.pyxis.astronomy.com.ph/> |
| 03:52.25 | Shirik | .. |
| 03:52.28 | bleeter | Shirik: all stars |
| 03:52.34 | Shirik | are they? |
| 03:52.38 | bleeter | I dunno |
| 03:52.39 | Corrodias | http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/Wingmakers/Pyxis.html |
| 03:52.39 | Shirik | I don't know what pyxis or vegas are |
| 03:52.42 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, all made of matter |
| 03:52.43 | bleeter | my mind's all over the place |
| 03:52.54 | Shirik | those are 4 server names I know of |
| 03:52.57 | Corrodias | "vega" is a star |
| 03:52.58 | Shirik | and I'm trying to figure out the convention |
| 03:53.01 | bleeter | pulls out stellatium |
| 03:53.02 | Shirik | maybe it's vega then |
| 03:53.06 | Shirik | I may have misremembered the name |
| 03:53.14 | Corrodias | pyxis is a star. sol is a star. gemini is at least a constellation, isn't it? could be a star name, too. |
| 03:54.12 | bleeter | pyxis is also a constellaion |
| 03:54.15 | Conexion | Hmm, anybody know where I can find information about adding options for my AddOn in the Interface>AddOn tab of WoW? |
| 03:57.52 | Kraps | tierrie's blizzcon pics are great |
| 03:58.17 | Thunder_Child | interesting, i just found a drawer of old HD's |
| 03:58.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Conexion: it's documented in the UI source code |
| 03:59.21 | Conexion | ScytheBlade1: Ah, k. Sorry I'm still pretty new and forgot about looking there :) |
| 03:59.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Conexion: it's one of the *few* things that *is* documented, so no worries |
| 04:00.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Conexion: http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source/blob/b51ff7a91e63f3b34be074ab8e8b3809537e52c9/FrameXML/UIOptionsFrame.lua |
| 04:00.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Conexion: line 492 on |
| 04:01.10 | Conexion | ScytheBlade1: Awesome, thanks :) |
| 04:14.34 | Thunder_Child | wth is it that 90% of the people on DA are under 16? |
| 04:14.56 | cog|away | http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/unholysmf/800379286_f49996b113.jpg |
| 04:21.59 | Shirik | Thunder_Child: Ignore them :) |
| 04:22.02 | Shirik | Most of the sane people are over 16 |
| 04:22.17 | Shirik | (and accordingly, most of the people I watch) |
| 04:24.09 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, i meant about http://hq.deviantart.com/blog/25797544/ |
| 04:24.33 | Thunder_Child | nist can not go because their pairents wont let them.... |
| 04:24.38 | Thunder_Child | most* |
| 04:25.10 | Kraps | "dude id toss some of these chics an inv anyday nahmsayin. " |
| 04:25.55 | Kraps | any of you gonna do a contest at blizzcon? |
| 04:29.25 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, what catagory do i put pictures in that are more than "...featuring a minimal amount of colour and exposure adjustment." and less than "...images that have been composed of two or more photographic elements to create something new." |
| 04:38.58 | Kraps | everyone who was a priest wore avatar |
| 04:39.31 | Thunder_Child | Kraps, you might also find something interesting here http://blizzcon.norganna.org/main.php |
| 04:45.20 | Kraps | most judgment costumes looked like crap to the 07 con |
| 04:46.24 | Kraps | tierrie's stuff is from what year? |
| 04:47.03 | Thunder_Child | the one berfor 07 |
| 04:47.19 | Thunder_Child | the problem being it wasnt '06 so i am not syre |
| 04:47.22 | Thunder_Child | sure* |
| 04:47.31 | Thunder_Child | bah, i can not type worth a damn tonight |
| 04:49.54 | Kraps | i think i saw http://www.flickr.com/photos/tierrie/1024888226/ in the 07 vid, and tierrie marked it as 07 |
| 04:50.26 | Thunder_Child | you know, maybe it was '07 |
| 04:56.01 | Kraps | waves at TC http://blizzcon.norganna.org/main.php/v/blizzcon2007/Face/2007-08-04+at+21-35-55.jpg.html |
| 04:58.02 | ScytheBlade1 | oh man |
| 04:58.06 | ScytheBlade1 | on the index page |
| 04:58.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Anyone notice the "Add Photo To Cart" under Cair's name? |
| 04:58.46 | ScytheBlade1 | waits for the banstick |
| 04:59.40 | Kraps | lol |
| 04:59.52 | Shirik | um |
| 05:00.01 | Shirik | Thunder_Child, I categorized my pictures based on their content |
| 05:00.03 | Shirik | not what I did to them |
| 05:00.59 | Kraps | who owns this account? |
| 05:01.16 | Cairenn | Kraps: what account? |
| 05:01.28 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:01.35 | Cairenn | Esamynn |
| 05:01.40 | Cairenn | more or less |
| 05:02.52 | Iriel | more or less because canadians can't own property? You merely lease it with a penguin or polar bear as collateral? |
| 05:03.21 | Cairenn | no, more or less because other people have access/rights on it, but Esamynn is the one that originally set it up |
| 05:03.36 | Cairenn | sticks her tongue out at Iriel |
| 05:04.55 | Kraps | canadians can't own property |
| 05:04.55 | Iriel | I like my version better |
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| 05:05.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v norgs] by ChanServ |
| 05:06.25 | Kraps | same chick who sing lament of the highborne ingame sang live at con? |
| 05:07.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Zuz666 (n=Zuz666@195.58.20.25) |
| 05:07.17 | Iriel | yes |
| 05:07.30 | Dagmar | This is awesome http://blizzcon.norganna.org/main.php/v/blizzcon2008/Saturday/Closing/L80ETC/IMG_1483.jpg.html |
| 05:07.34 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5694913/Man-uses-nail-clippers-in-DIY-circumcision.html |
| 05:08.35 | Shirik | Iriel: Canadians can't own property? |
| 05:08.50 | Shirik | I think a corrolary to that is that I should be able to take pictures of Cairenn at any time |
| 05:08.56 | Shirik | since she has no rights to herself |
| 05:09.01 | Kraps | Shirik: You merely lease it with a penguin or polar bear as collateral |
| 05:09.04 | Cairenn | >< |
| 05:09.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: good luck with that one. |
| 05:09.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: playing with fire.. |
| 05:09.24 | NightHawkTheSane | let us know how that turns out, yeah? |
| 05:09.29 | ScytheBlade1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:09.30 | Shirik | hey hey |
| 05:09.32 | Corrodias | NightHawkTheSane: i like how the article switches halfway through to talking about something completely unrelated. |
| 05:09.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Alternately, let us watch and see how it turns out |
| 05:09.38 | Thunder_Child | "@Shirik: Thunder_Child, I categorized my pictures based on their content" thats secondary, not primary |
| 05:09.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Corrodias: indeed |
| 05:09.43 | Shirik | my new camera can take pictures at 1/8000 second! |
| 05:09.49 | Thunder_Child | waves back @ Kraps |
| 05:09.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: i bet she can murder you faster. |
| 05:10.04 | Kraps | http://blizzcon.norganna.org/main.php/v/blizzcon2008/Faces/Lopeppeppy-Cairenn.jpg.html |
| 05:10.10 | Kraps | *cough* |
| 05:10.24 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl @ description |
| 05:10.30 | ScytheBlade1 | "Lamp Pole (middle)" |
| 05:10.34 | ScytheBlade1 | hahaha |
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| 05:10.39 | Cairenn | yeah, that always makes me chuckle, too |
| 05:10.43 | Cairenn | blame that on Dolby |
| 05:10.58 | Shirik | Cairenn and peppy with only a pole between them |
| 05:11.05 | Shirik | totally not surprised |
| 05:11.20 | Cairenn | *dws* |
| 05:11.22 | Dolby | lol |
| 05:11.28 | Shirik | ~dws |
| 05:11.29 | purl | somebody said dws was Dripping With Sarcasm |
| 05:11.36 | Cairenn | not |
| 05:11.42 | Thunder_Child | $5 says Shirik only said that because peppy isnt here |
| 05:12.03 | Shirik | someone can link it again tomorrow if desired |
| 05:12.12 | Thunder_Child | but you wont be around to get hurt |
| 05:12.14 | Cairenn | purl, no, dws is <reply> Cairenn's patented "deliciously wicked smile" |
| 05:12.15 | purl | Cairenn: okay |
| 05:12.18 | Dolby | that picture was the only time they werent dancing with the pole |
| 05:12.22 | Cairenn | ~dws |
| 05:12.23 | purl | Cairenn's patented "deliciously wicked smile" |
| 05:12.36 | Cairenn | Dolby: ;) |
| 05:12.46 | Kraps | Driving While Stupid? |
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| 05:13.21 | ScytheBlade1 | purl: dws is also dripping with sarcasm |
| 05:13.22 | purl | ScytheBlade1: okay |
| 05:13.27 | Dolby | Delivering wet snales |
| 05:13.30 | ScytheBlade1 | (best not to agitate the IRC demons) |
| 05:14.19 | Kraps | http://blizzcon.norganna.org/main.php/v/blizzcon2008/Faces/Blizzcon2008UIGroupLabeled.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1 you guys/gals are basically THE modders? |
| 05:15.13 | Kraps | are there more? |
| 05:15.13 | Cairenn | there are lots more, but that's a pretty good showing |
| 05:15.15 | Shirik | I look so short in that picture |
| 05:15.30 | Thunder_Child | yer hunched |
| 05:15.34 | Dolby | your sitting |
| 05:15.39 | Dolby | how can you look short? |
| 05:15.52 | ScytheBlade1 | It's because you ARE short |
| 05:15.56 | Shirik | Thunder_Child's right, I'm resting on my elbows |
| 05:16.01 | Shirik | instead of sitting up |
| 05:16.17 | Shirik | I'm about the same height as Tem iirc |
| 05:19.48 | Dagmar | Someone might wanna mention to Esamynn that one of those costume pics isn't quite safe for the kiddies |
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| 05:20.47 | Kraps | link |
| 05:20.53 | Shirik | those are actually better than what you would have seen if you went there |
| 05:20.56 | Dagmar | There's only like five pics in that section |
| 05:21.10 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure you can figure out which one and why |
| 05:21.11 | Shirik | One of the BE chicks I swear was wearing practically nothing |
| 05:21.22 | Dagmar | She wasn't wearing it in the right place, to be sure |
| 05:21.31 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@76.107.188.90) |
| 05:21.33 | Kraps | they look like NEs |
| 05:21.49 | Shirik | actually I missed that Dagmar |
| 05:22.14 | Dagmar | I was trying to figure out how they handled the rigid costume pieces and then realized the answer was "not so well". heh |
| 05:22.57 | Thunder_Child | interesting ep of penn and teller |
| 05:23.03 | Shirik | random link of doom, click if you dare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDfuGKcACvI |
| 05:23.07 | Thunder_Child | "The duo debunks the theory of politicians and other alarmists that playing video games leads to teen violence by handing over a real semiautomatic weapon to a nine-year-old video game player to see if he becomes a human killing machine." |
| 05:23.19 | Dagmar | Woo! |
| 05:24.13 | Dagmar | They probably have better fire-discipline than the average adult |
| 05:24.30 | Shirik | agree |
| 05:24.40 | Shirik | Hell, I held a gun when I was in 6th grade |
| 05:24.43 | Shirik | I wasn't stupid |
| 05:24.59 | Shirik | Fired a few rounds at a target. I was pretty damn accurate too, sorta |
| 05:25.14 | Shirik | after the second shot, I was told I wasn't supposed to be aiming for the head, I was supposed to be aiming for the mark on his chest :/ |
| 05:25.18 | Dagmar | lol |
| 05:25.23 | Dagmar | I had the same problem |
| 05:25.37 | Kraps | twilight is casting! |
| 05:25.45 | Dagmar | Quick! Start cutting! |
| 05:26.14 | VonhintenHOME` | [01:21] <@Shirik> One of the BE chicks I swear was wearing practically nothing |
| 05:26.27 | VonhintenHOME` | ^^ pics |
| 05:26.37 | VonhintenHOME` | can't make a statement like that without following up man, protocol |
| 05:26.37 | Shirik | I'm sure there's pics out on the net somewher |
| 05:26.45 | Kraps | night guys |
| 05:26.49 | Dagmar | I saw at least one |
| 05:27.10 | Dagmar | I'm going to have to think about how it is my gf noticed that *immediately* |
| 05:27.45 | VonhintenHOME` | like a moth to a flame... eyes to breasts |
| 05:27.45 | Thunder_Child | dont think to hard about it |
| 05:27.52 | Dagmar | VonhintenHOME`: Try lower |
| 05:28.01 | VonhintenHOME` | ok... pics |
| 05:28.26 | Wobin | omnomnom |
| 05:28.34 | Wobin | I'm going to make this mushroom spinich bake more often |
| 05:28.45 | Wobin | s/nich/nach/ |
| 05:28.46 | Dagmar | You really picked the wrong time to say that first bit. |
| 05:29.05 | Cairenn | Wobin: just for you: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y61/commonsnat/Copypasta/nom.jpg |
| 05:29.14 | Wobin | heehee |
| 05:29.16 | Wobin | NOM |
| 05:33.21 | Wobin | oh btw, VonhintenHOME` there was a study on eye tracking |
| 05:33.47 | Wobin | er Dagmar |
| 05:34.37 | Wobin | "Men spent more time, and had a higher probability of, looking at female faces. NC Women had more first looks towards, spent more time, and had a higher probability of, looking at genitals." |
| 05:34.52 | Wobin | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17362952 |
| 05:34.58 | Wobin | (NC is 'Normal Cycling') |
| 05:40.45 | Wobin | (aha, that's what a peppy looks like, eh?) |
| 05:40.46 | theorbtwo | That's not terribly interesting. For the average clothed man and woman, you can tell a lot more about the genitals of the man. |
| 05:41.10 | Wobin | ... instead of the face? |
| 05:43.41 | VonhintenHOME` | Most men spend their time TRYING to look at the woman's face |
| 05:43.46 | VonhintenHOME` | This research is BS |
| 05:44.03 | Wobin | wow, Zoot really does look kinda gnomish |
| 05:48.28 | theorbtwo | VonhintenHOME`: I'd like to see their methodology. |
| 05:48.33 | bleeter | any crazy glib hackers out there, http://hg.guifications.org/purple_signals/file/ccb48ffaf202/purple_signals.c |
| 05:48.40 | theorbtwo | I get the impression that they did a neck-up test and a neck-down test. |
| 05:49.44 | Shirik | VonhintenHOME`: It seems like true research |
| 05:49.59 | Shirik | and if that's the case, then the people went in knowing nothing about what's being tested |
| 05:50.11 | Shirik | so I wouldn't really see the "TRYING to look" part |
| 06:01.47 | Wobin | btw shirik: "One of the BE chicks..." ... -only- one? =P |
| 06:04.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Wobin: one on the right. I've looked at them before but missed it countless times until it was pointed out. |
| 06:05.13 | Wobin | ScytheBlade1: sorry? |
| 06:05.15 | ScytheBlade1 | also, NE chicks. |
| 06:05.57 | Thunder_Child | look closer, it's not what you think |
| 06:08.09 | Wobin | I think I'm missing a link |
| 06:08.17 | Wobin | so to combat that, I offer another: http://www.nerve.com/personalessays/Saknussemm/my-ten-favorite-fetishes-a-lifelong-sex-researcher-on-his-most-unusual-discoveries/ |
| 06:08.23 | Wobin | (PS, if you didn't guess, NSFW) |
| 06:08.51 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: Totally different conversation |
| 06:09.42 | ScytheBlade1 | oh |
| 06:09.43 | ScytheBlade1 | meh |
| 06:10.00 | Thunder_Child | this remind me of tekkub "Pogonophilia The fixation on bearded men" |
| 06:10.03 | Thunder_Child | reminds* |
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| 06:49.00 | Conexion | I know you can get a list of all the XML tags from UI.xsd, but is there a list anywhere that describes what each tag does? |
| 06:49.47 | jnwhiteh | my book |
| 06:49.52 | jnwhiteh | what would you like to know? |
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| 06:50.23 | bleeter | jnwhiteh: so many books, so little time! :P |
| 06:50.55 | Conexion | lol, well I'm already waiting for one WoW AddOn book, but just a description of each tag and the properties, etc For example |
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| 06:51.22 | Conexion | Anchor and all the possible values |
| 06:52.33 | Conexion | which I know is like TOPLEFT, etc... all of that |
| 06:52.38 | Conexion | but for other values |
| 06:55.04 | jnwhiteh | No, because somethign liek that isn't very useful. |
| 06:55.11 | jnwhiteh | without understanding the concepts behind each |
| 06:55.23 | jnwhiteh | which book are you waiting for, out of curousity? |
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| 06:56.08 | jnwhiteh | either way, I can answer pretty much any question you have |
| 06:56.39 | Conexion | Okay, I'd like to know why each one is used - and I believe I got your book if you are James Whitehead II :P |
| 06:57.01 | jnwhiteh | then you need to read the book i'm afraid |
| 06:57.04 | jnwhiteh | if you don't have specific questions |
| 06:57.16 | jnwhiteh | I'd love to give you an interactive tutorial, but that's why we wrote it =) |
| 06:57.49 | jnwhiteh | learning the WoW Ui is a constructive process, not a "here's all the information of what everything does" |
| 06:57.54 | Conexion | Is it with the book? :) And I appreciate the book! |
| 06:57.55 | bleeter | Nechckn: "Look into the eyes of a chicken and you will see real stupidity - bottomless stupidity" - Werner Herzog |
| 06:57.59 | Conexion | And I bet :) |
| 06:58.17 | jnwhiteh | simply because there are .. 30 different frame widgets, 1500 different functions, 250 different methods, etc. |
| 06:58.29 | jnwhiteh | so telling you how and why everything is used just isn't really possible =) |
| 06:58.52 | jnwhiteh | is furious that microsoft removed VBA support in Office 2008 for Mac |
| 06:58.53 | jnwhiteh | >< |
| 06:59.06 | Conexion | Haha, I bet :D |
| 06:59.41 | jnwhiteh | i wonder |
| 06:59.43 | jnwhiteh | what is "faster"] |
| 06:59.48 | jnwhiteh | mac office 2004 on rosetta |
| 06:59.55 | jnwhiteh | or vmware running a windows instance with ms office |
| 07:00.04 | Conexion | I'd try the later |
| 07:00.15 | jnwhiteh | i've done both |
| 07:00.22 | jnwhiteh | but i detest the fact that i need to use word at all |
| 07:00.23 | jnwhiteh | ah well |
| 07:00.27 | Conexion | Haha, yeah. |
| 07:00.34 | Conexion | What did you use for writing your book? |
| 07:00.38 | jnwhiteh | word |
| 07:00.40 | jnwhiteh | because i have no choice |
| 07:00.44 | jnwhiteh | and its the only thing i ever use word for |
| 07:00.47 | jnwhiteh | >< |
| 07:00.50 | NightHawkTheSan1 | why do you have no choice? |
| 07:01.02 | jnwhiteh | NightHawkTheSan1: I've been given no choice, that's how the document must be sent to my editgor. |
| 07:01.14 | NightHawkTheSane | thats stupid. |
| 07:01.37 | Conexion | Interesting, I assume it wasn't possible to do it in another editor and export it without formatting messing up, etc? |
| 07:01.54 | jnwhiteh | there are a number of macros that need to be run at different points in time |
| 07:01.58 | jnwhiteh | sure i can write stuff in another editor |
| 07:02.02 | jnwhiteh | and hten import it and format it |
| 07:02.06 | jnwhiteh | but that actually takes longer |
| 07:02.21 | NightHawkTheSane | out of curiosity, what kind of macros? |
| 07:02.42 | jnwhiteh | first the ones that disable the autocorrection "help" that word provides |
| 07:02.54 | Shirik | night night |
| 07:03.01 | jnwhiteh | then there are a number of custom toolbars that help you navigate the 750 styles much easier |
| 07:03.53 | NightHawkTheSane | so, mostly macros to make the fact that it IS word suck less. |
| 07:04.13 | Conexion | I noticed in part of the description of the book, there is a section on AddOn Studio... I've tried it a little, but find it adds a lot of extra stuff I don't need as well as things not working how I expect them. Do you think more people hand code or use AddOn Studio? |
| 07:04.34 | jnwhiteh | most hand-code |
| 07:04.39 | jnwhiteh | but it depends on whether you want a full scale IDE |
| 07:05.29 | Conexion | Ah. Growing up I often disliked IDE's after QBasic because of their bloat :P what do you prefer personally? |
| 07:08.15 | jnwhiteh | I write everything by hand |
| 07:08.20 | jnwhiteh | but I've been doing this for almost 5 years =) |
| 07:08.41 | jnwhiteh | Lua is fine in any text editor, especially if you have syntax coloring |
| 07:08.48 | Conexion | Very cool :) Did someone approach you on writing the book or did you just decide to do it? |
| 07:08.55 | Conexion | Yeah, I like using Notepad ++ or Vim |
| 07:09.06 | jnwhiteh | If you're writing XML you should plan to use a schema aware editor, or use a validator to ensure your document conforms |
| 07:09.26 | jnwhiteh | i was approached |
| 07:10.27 | Conexion | Cool, sorry for asking questions like that, I'm sure you get a lot of it |
| 07:10.35 | jnwhiteh | no problem, not really |
| 07:11.19 | Conexion | Ha... how long did it take to write the book? |
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| 07:14.57 | jnwhiteh | umm.. 7 month for the first edition |
| 07:15.53 | Conexion | Very cool. I have a goal someday to write a book... no clue when or what ,but some day. |
| 07:16.31 | jnwhiteh | its very time consuming, but can be very rewarding |
| 07:17.00 | Conexion | I imagine, I have 2 friends who have your book |
| 07:17.10 | Conexion | They really like it |
| 07:19.58 | Conexion | The book should be arriving in 2-4 days... I have drawn up a small diagram of the look and the option menu, but only know how to get a "Hello World" application running. Any suggestions on what I could do in the mean time? |
| 07:21.14 | jnwhiteh | umm |
| 07:21.25 | jnwhiteh | that's hard to say |
| 07:21.33 | jnwhiteh | you could read up some stuff on wowwiki or wowprogramming |
| 07:21.39 | jnwhiteh | the snippets, or some examples |
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| 07:23.18 | krka | read other people's addons can be fun |
| 07:23.23 | jnwhiteh | *nod* |
| 07:23.24 | krka | but choose a small one |
| 07:23.56 | krka | that way you can probably tweak stuff which is a friendly way to get started |
| 07:24.22 | jnwhiteh | definitely a good idea |
| 07:24.30 | Conexion | WoWWiki is decent, but so far I get more out of WoWPrograming lol. I noticed layouts can be done in both Lua and XML... Do most people use both, or pure Lua? |
| 07:24.35 | Conexion | Yeah :) |
| 07:24.40 | jnwhiteh | Conexion: it depends on the purpose |
| 07:24.44 | jnwhiteh | some zealots refuse to use XML |
| 07:24.56 | jnwhiteh | but XML is nice because you can validate it and make templates using it |
| 07:25.03 | jnwhiteh | but Lua allows you to create frames dynamically |
| 07:25.07 | jnwhiteh | so you end up doing a mix between the two |
| 07:25.30 | ReAn | i've always found it easier to build w/ lua than w/ xml, mainly cuz it's less to remember |
| 07:25.31 | ReAn | :D |
| 07:25.43 | ReAn | but that's just me |
| 07:25.44 | jnwhiteh | I couldn't disagree more =) |
| 07:25.50 | ReAn | the xml is usefull tho |
| 07:25.51 | jnwhiteh | but thats okay! |
| 07:26.18 | ReAn | jnwhiteh: templating is very usefull, but i just make factory functions usually >_> |
| 07:26.39 | Conexion | Ah. I assume the book addresses when to use XML and Lua? |
| 07:26.39 | jnwhiteh | sure, you can do it in different ways |
| 07:26.58 | jnwhiteh | Conexion: It's a decision for you to make, but yes it will help you make that decision |
| 07:27.03 | ReAn | Conexion: i think it's a matter of when YOU want to |
| 07:27.14 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 07:27.54 | Conexion | Ah :) I like the structure of XML as I'm already quite familiar with it. I find it harder to "see" the structure of how a lua program is set up |
| 07:28.01 | Conexion | But that could just be my lack of experience in Lua |
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| 07:28.41 | krka | is a zealot who refuses to use xml :P |
| 07:28.42 | jnwhiteh | then the first few chapters will serve you well, I suspect |
| 07:28.43 | ReAn | from what i recall, when CreateFrame() was introduced, everyone jumped on LUA based ui's because @ the time the xml parser for wow was slow, but since then has been improved and thus speed isn't an issue |
| 07:28.45 | krka | ReAn: I think you meant to say Lua there. :-) |
| 07:29.00 | jnwhiteh | ReAn: that's not accurate in the least =( |
| 07:29.07 | jnwhiteh | there is no issue with the XML parser |
| 07:29.08 | ReAn | oh? |
| 07:29.13 | ReAn | WAS |
| 07:29.15 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 07:29.16 | ReAn | is what i HEARD |
| 07:29.17 | jnwhiteh | not true |
| 07:29.18 | jnwhiteh | never was =) |
| 07:29.21 | jnwhiteh | i know |
| 07:29.22 | ReAn | ok then |
| 07:29.22 | jnwhiteh | i'm clarifying |
| 07:29.25 | ReAn | i stand corrected |
| 07:29.27 | jnwhiteh | people talk lots of shit |
| 07:29.31 | ReAn | *shrug* |
| 07:29.34 | jnwhiteh | CreateFrame just allows you to create new frames after the game has been loaded |
| 07:29.35 | jnwhiteh | full stop |
| 07:29.36 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:29.37 | ReAn | i used xml until Ace3 |
| 07:29.38 | jnwhiteh | XML does not |
| 07:29.45 | krka | people have never used lua just because the xml parser was slow |
| 07:29.56 | Conexion | Would practicing non-wow Lua help me while I'm waiting for the book? |
| 07:29.57 | krka | i have literally never heard that argument |
| 07:30.01 | jnwhiteh | CreateFrame() was introduced to allow developers to create frames dynamically. |
| 07:30.04 | krka | Conexion: yes |
| 07:30.09 | jnwhiteh | Conexion: sure it will |
| 07:30.24 | jnwhiteh | just don't skip the first 6 chapters when you actually get the book =) |
| 07:30.30 | Conexion | I wouldn't :D |
| 07:30.51 | krka | you could try doing some project euler problems in lua or something |
| 07:30.58 | jnwhiteh | <3 project euler |
| 07:31.02 | jnwhiteh | okay i need to go |
| 07:31.05 | jnwhiteh | need to get some work done |
| 07:31.09 | jnwhiteh | bbl |
| 07:31.37 | Conexion | Have fun. You around WoWUIDev often jnwhiteh ? (if ya haven't gone) :p |
| 07:31.45 | jnwhiteh | i'm always here |
| 07:31.46 | ReAn | well yes jnwhiteh: that's obvious, i just HEARD that people switched over to it almost exclusively because of speed issues, but i never said it was fact, that's what I had been told, i use lua cuz it's less flip flopping between 2 files really >_> |
| 07:31.58 | jnwhiteh | but if you have questions about the bbook feel free to join #wowprogramming |
| 07:31.59 | Conexion | Very cool |
| 07:32.01 | jnwhiteh | ReAn: I'm not saying you're wrong |
| 07:32.05 | Conexion | Alright :) |
| 07:32.05 | ReAn | Conexion: he's a channel operator, it typically means he's here often |
| 07:32.05 | jnwhiteh | I'm saying the people who told you that were =) |
| 07:35.26 | Nechckn | bleeter GAH!?!?!!? |
| 07:35.42 | Nechckn | Herzog is obviously a hack, with thoughts such as that. |
| 07:36.27 | ReAn | Nechckn: you seem out of context >_> |
| 07:36.45 | Nechckn | bleeter will know of what I am speaking ;-) |
| 07:37.05 | Nechckn | returns to the shadown of the coop |
| 07:37.16 | Nechckn | s/shadown/shadows/ |
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| 07:52.00 | bleeter | Nechckn: hack, hahaha |
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| 08:05.54 | bleeter | don't forget to celebrate Mr Tesla's birthday by licking a power point or five |
| 08:08.51 | End | weird |
| 08:08.59 | End | I think something is wrong with my other computer |
| 08:09.05 | End | it keeps panicking on start up |
| 08:09.19 | Torhal | RAM! |
| 08:09.24 | Torhal | Maybe. |
| 08:09.28 | End | good point |
| 08:10.05 | End | oh neat |
| 08:10.13 | End | ubuntu comes with memtest in the grub menu |
| 08:10.25 | End | uh oh |
| 08:10.35 | End | Torhal wins a cookie. :( |
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| 08:12.07 | Torhal | Hehe |
| 08:12.11 | Torhal | Oh |
| 08:12.20 | Torhal | You mean it already found bad RAM? |
| 08:12.32 | End | yeah, although I'm thinking maybe it's mobo instead |
| 08:12.45 | End | but if it's mobo, that's the situation where I move the drives into my main computer |
| 08:14.46 | End | guess I'll try taking one of the sticks out and seeing if that helps |
| 08:17.00 | Torhal | I hope it's not the mobo. That would suck. |
| 08:18.34 | End | the computer never failed memtest until now, but it would fail prime95, so I'm pretty sure the mobo has always been dodgy |
| 08:20.08 | Torhal | Ah, but memory can fail. That's like saying "You didn't have to take a piss five minutes ago." |
| 08:20.11 | Torhal | :D |
| 08:20.48 | End | yeah |
| 08:21.14 | End | and the mobo being flakey didn't keep it from booting before :P |
| 08:21.32 | End | well |
| 08:21.42 | End | I think its the mobo |
| 08:21.50 | End | or both sticks of ram are bad |
| 08:22.10 | End | or something |
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| 08:30.44 | Torhal | Icky |
| 08:31.45 | mikma | sticky |
| 08:33.05 | End | indeed |
| 08:38.17 | bleeter | try swapping the memory around, sometimes it's just placement and reseating/moving of slots can fix things for a while |
| 08:38.23 | bleeter | oh |
| 08:38.25 | bleeter | oops |
| 08:38.28 | bleeter | was scrolled up my bad |
| 08:41.28 | End | I didn't try all combinations of both sticks, but I tried all slots for each stick individually |
| 08:41.35 | End | strangely memtest only fails for one stick |
| 08:41.42 | End | but it fails to boot with either |
| 08:42.05 | bleeter | does the mobo need two slots populated? |
| 08:42.12 | End | no |
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| 08:42.26 | End | it might require a slot to be filled, but it only needs one stick |
| 08:42.44 | bleeter | just asking, that kinda thing used to drive me crazy. glad it's gone away. |
| 08:42.52 | End | hehe |
| 08:43.04 | End | yeah, I started out with only one stick when I first built the computer |
| 08:43.20 | End | I later went from 1 512 stick to 2 512 sticks, oh noes! |
| 08:43.33 | bleeter | then each mobo was different, some had to have slower in one than the other, or smaller, or if slower had to be bigger, or small.. or.. argh |
| 08:43.40 | bleeter | god I hate PCs |
| 08:43.52 | End | yeah, some of that shit can be really screwy sometimes |
| 08:44.02 | bleeter | cept for ease of home use, yeah, I hate 'em |
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| 08:44.48 | bleeter | new g/f's all 'hey.. is there anything in computing you don't hate'.. and I'm ... 'Um... no' she's 'well gtfo then!' hahaha |
| 08:44.59 | End | lol |
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| 08:50.35 | Nechckn | Smart lady, sheepy =) |
| 08:54.46 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/07/whoo_party_like_its_123456_070.php |
| 08:55.26 | TopTop18 | Jnwhiteh, About the databse, would it be to big if it saves changes fro 3 months? This'll probably be, 200people*40raidsper3months*25averagechangesperraid=200000 maximum entries, probably around 50000 on average. Auctioneer saves lots of auctions to, so i think this would be manageable? |
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| 09:00.10 | Wobin | mikma: I love the comments and anti-american rants |
| 09:01.10 | Wobin | TopTop18: Most people don't care past a month or two. I'd have an export option that allowed them to export the info to a website or something for anything older than a month or two |
| 09:02.38 | foxlit | http://vimeo.com/5451420 << heey, that looks familiar. |
| 09:02.56 | TopTop18 | Wobin, 3 months is for a more failsafe system, not for llokups :D Cause people get kicked out of the guild when not online for 3 months->you can update to all data available always->more failsafe system |
| 09:03.33 | mikma | wobin: oh, i forgot you always read comments :D |
| 09:03.36 | mikma | wobin: http://www.shocktillyoudrop.com/news/topnews.php?id=10988 |
| 09:03.49 | Wobin | but if you get kicked out for more than 3 months, who cares what happened? |
| 09:05.03 | mikma | hehee... |
| 09:05.03 | mikma | http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2009/06/inglourious_basterds_theatrica.php |
| 09:08.47 | Wobin | hehe twitter wow gold seller fail http://www.twitter.com/Alvicthefirst |
| 09:09.06 | Wobin | the first batch of his spam ads failed to separate #wow with the subsequent word |
| 09:09.11 | Wobin | so noone ever saw them =P |
| 09:15.54 | TopTop18 | Wobin if you get back from a long vacation from say 2.5 months you want to still ahve your dkp, and update from what happened in the meantime |
| 09:16.39 | Wobin | TopTop18: just recall that although Auctioneer has dbs that large |
| 09:16.52 | Wobin | People do not mass send auctioneer dbs to their guildmates |
| 09:17.47 | TopTop18 | Just wondering what so much entries will take from your pc |
| 09:18.03 | Wobin | storage probably isn't an issue |
| 09:18.08 | Wobin | transmission would be |
| 09:18.39 | TopTop18 | I don;t know anything about sending yet, but I think io got a system that might work |
| 09:18.41 | Wobin | you don't want your addons sending huge amounts of data if someone logs on in the middle of a raid |
| 09:19.15 | Wobin | suddenly, you'll have your raidleader sending 3 months of data across the line whlie he's trying to heal/tank the boss |
| 09:19.17 | TopTop18 | Disable stuff when in combot or not in a safe zone? |
| 09:19.36 | Wobin | you still don't want to transmit huge amounts of data anyway |
| 09:19.40 | TopTop18 | And don;t heal the boss that's bad |
| 09:20.24 | TopTop18 | Data will only be huge if people don;t log in for months, but that'll be a single case, average would be a weektime of data |
| 09:20.28 | Wobin | pft, that's the mage's fault for not dispelling the curses |
| 09:20.44 | Wobin | ypi |
| 09:20.55 | Wobin | you'll have to store the data using versions then. |
| 09:21.41 | Wobin | but you yourself brought up the case of someone logging in after a while, you can't just pass it off as a single instance happening =P |
| 09:22.06 | Wobin | The problem is that it -will- happen |
| 09:22.17 | Wobin | and your addon will have to deal gracefully with it, no matter the situation |
| 09:23.27 | TopTop18 | It will happen, but not so much. Just a lag spike when sending the datamass, but that happens even when not doing so :D |
| 09:23.30 | Wobin | also, the ToS for addons include rules that prevent large amounts of data being transmitted if it impacts gameplay |
| 09:23.48 | TopTop18 | ToS? |
| 09:23.55 | Wobin | Terms of service/use/etc |
| 09:24.42 | Aqua | Shirik_: subversion can lose your work when the server that it was on goes belly up |
| 09:24.43 | Wobin | the policy |
| 09:24.43 | Wobin | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/policy/ui.html |
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| 09:26.27 | Torhal | TopTop18: You may also be disconnected when spamming the addon channel. |
| 09:26.44 | TopTop18 | Oh and my idea was to tag changes with dates/times for personal use, but also with tags per person. Like every new entry for a person would get the next number. So when you log in after a while oof absence your addon can request the latest tag for each person, see what misses and request that data |
| 09:27.02 | Torhal | That doesn't modify the savedvariables, so when they log in again... |
| 09:27.14 | TopTop18 | Jnwhiteh please also comment the above idea please :D |
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| 09:32.27 | TopTop18 | Torhal, I'll let it spam nice and slowly :D |
| 09:34.48 | Nechckn | TopTop18 or you could just use http://AuctioneerDB.Com that does all of that for you- and keeps the data floods outside of the in-game AddOns channel(s) |
| 09:35.21 | Nechckn | Not to mention allowing you to search when offline for pricing info, etc. |
| 09:35.34 | TopTop18 | I'll take a look sec |
| 09:35.49 | TopTop18 | This's not about pricing info but a dkp addon :D |
| 09:36.43 | Nechckn | Ah, very well, was just going by your comment where you mentioned Aucitoneer |
| 09:36.48 | TopTop18 | I'll need a shared database to keep every guild member updated about there dkp |
| 09:37.07 | TopTop18 | Lol, mentioned auctioneer in the context of loads of data |
| 09:37.45 | TopTop18 | Any idea if 200000 entries of dkp is compareable with auctioneers datamasses? |
| 09:39.40 | Nechckn | All depends on how much information you are saving, per entry. |
| 09:39.50 | *** join/#wowuidev smulen (n=henrik_8@ti0049a380-0702.bb.online.no) |
| 09:40.56 | smulen | looking for powerleveling partner.. u get 30 days free playtime and a lvl 60 char of your choice with 1-2 days playtime! PM! |
| 09:41.32 | TopTop18 | an entry will save name, chnage of dkp, tag(<number>) and date/time |
| 09:41.39 | Nechckn | should be fairly small, but as suggested by Wobin likely more useful/better done outside of the game proper. |
| 09:42.09 | Nechckn | Especially since people like to search that sort of thing, toy with data, etc. |
| 09:43.07 | Nechckn | What is nice about that is, then you can use anything you want as far as parsing, et cetera. |
| 09:43.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+b *!*@ti0049a380-0702.bb.online.no] by Cairenn |
| 09:45.06 | TopTop18 | Problem is I can;t program anything outside the game(net even inside game properly yet xD) and don;t think my guild wants to pay for a server |
| 09:45.22 | TopTop18 | So I'm trying to build it inside the game :D |
| 09:45.35 | Nechckn | Keep your eye on your audience, then build from there. Likely a post on the WoWI message board asking for input or something. |
| 09:45.55 | Nechckn | Have you looked at the host of other DKP addons and such? |
| 09:46.30 | Nechckn | Would seriously start there, then, if one does not meet your needs exactly, try to modify it. That would be much, much easier than beginning anew. |
| 09:47.21 | Nechckn | With that.. have an appointment soon. Good luck with your project! |
| 09:48.30 | TopTop18 | Audience=guild, Not looked at other dkp addons a lot yet, but GM tried some out, none worked properly. And I'm starting a new one to learn programming addons, so i don't want a quick solution xD I'm trying to build a addon from gruond up |
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| 10:20.23 | TopTop18 | Nechckn, please add Eonar EU to that auctioneerdb :D |
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| 12:35.27 | dardack | sigh |
| 12:35.39 | Maldivia | :P |
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| 12:40.17 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:40.29 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, alestane. Happy damn Friday! |
| 12:40.47 | alestane | Mmm, yes. |
| 12:41.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@81.170.42.133) |
| 12:42.13 | alestane | Last weekend => my parents came to visit; this weekend => her parents come to visit; next weekend => her fraternity convention. When the heck do we just take some time off? |
| 12:42.13 | alestane | Of course, for you, last weekend & this weekend & next weekend ==> packing, so I suppose I shouldn't rant too much. |
| 12:43.42 | Lopeppeppy | And the next two will be *unpacking*... Rawr. |
| 12:44.47 | alestane | I fid that less tedious. |
| 12:44.50 | alestane | find* |
| 12:53.13 | alestane | "...we did not (and still do not) believe in the standard multithreading model, which is preemptive concurrency with shared memory: we still think that no one can write correct programs in a language where âa=a+1â is not deterministic." |
| 12:53.24 | Lopeppeppy | Bless you. |
| 12:54.47 | alestane | Sorry, rereading the "History of Lua article." |
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| 12:59.39 | dardack | man my realm back down again |
| 13:01.42 | ZorbaTHut | hey, someone a week or two ago in here posted a UI mod that let you see a quick visual breakdown of someone's gear/enchanting/gemming ingame. anyone know what the UI mod was, or can think of something similar? |
| 13:02.04 | alestane | ~logs |
| 13:02.05 | purl | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. |
| 13:02.23 | alestane | (No, I don't, I'm afraid). |
| 13:02.28 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I've got logs too, but it'll take me a bit to figure out what to search for ;) |
| 13:02.32 | ZorbaTHut | ah well, time to go hunting |
| 13:10.06 | dardack | zorba if you figure it out let me know, that would be perfect for 25 man pugs |
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| 13:14.31 | airtonix | ZorbaTHut, gearcheck, inventoryonpar |
| 13:14.31 | *** join/#wowuidev TT18 (n=TopTop18@82.173.37.231) |
| 13:14.40 | TT18 | Back whahaha |
| 13:14.51 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix1 (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 13:16.26 | airtonix | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/search.php?search=gear |
| 13:16.28 | TT18 | How do I kick my ghost out? |
| 13:17.26 | aesir | should be /msg nickserv ghost nick password |
| 13:17.50 | TT18 | kk |
| 13:21.07 | dardack | looking for new UI mod, any recommendations |
| 13:21.29 | Lopeppeppy | um... what *kind* of addon do you want, dardack? Specifics are good. |
| 13:21.43 | dardack | something to replace oUF |
| 13:21.56 | dardack | i kinda dont' ahve time for hard coding anymore |
| 13:21.59 | Lopeppeppy | Sage, Pitbull.. .those are the two I kow. |
| 13:22.20 | dardack | i could never get pitbull to be set up well i guess |
| 13:22.23 | Lopeppeppy | Check Vranx's categories if you want to see more. http://www.vranx.com/ |
| 13:23.31 | dardack | yea he uses ouf it looks like |
| 13:24.21 | dardack | can you get vertical 3d portraits in xperl or pitbull? (like between health/mana bars?) |
| 13:25.53 | alestane | Pitbull is pretty frackin' flexible from what I remember. |
| 13:26.37 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info13863-GearGauge.html is the one I was thinking about |
| 13:26.41 | dardack | yea almost overly from what i remember |
| 13:28.22 | TopTop18 | nUI to maybe? |
| 13:28.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-47-184.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 13:28.34 | dardack | nui is a whole compilation |
| 13:28.41 | dardack | i like all my mods already |
| 13:28.47 | TopTop18 | kk |
| 13:28.53 | dardack | just don't want to take the time anymore to hardcode lua for my UI part |
| 13:29.47 | Kraps | herllo |
| 13:30.19 | alestane | "The wide adoption of Lua in games came as a surprise to us. We did not have game development as a target for Lua. (Tecgraf is mostly concerned with scientific software.)" |
| 13:30.36 | dardack | guess i'll try pitbull and see if i can configure it properly |
| 13:32.06 | dardack | sigh note to self disable old unit frames before logging in |
| 13:34.26 | *** join/#wowuidev MuNk (n=Saito-Sa@i-83-67-141-11.freedom2surf.net) |
| 13:34.27 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (n=bluspace@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 13:34.51 | bluspacecow | anyone here running a Mac OS X box ? 10.5.7 ? |
| 13:35.22 | alestane | 10.4.11, sorry. |
| 13:35.36 | Aqua | I've got a mac book pro |
| 13:35.37 | bluspacecow | dang |
| 13:35.38 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy_ (n=stolenle@d86-32-223-111.cust.tele2.at) |
| 13:35.38 | Aqua | but i'm not on it atm |
| 13:35.47 | bluspacecow | whats this command output for you : |
| 13:35.48 | bluspacecow | ls -l /Library/Receipts/db/a.receiptdb |
| 13:35.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 13:35.56 | bluspacecow | i think i borked my receipts folder |
| 13:35.57 | MuNk | Hello all. is WoW Addon Studio a good place to start with? |
| 13:36.07 | bluspacecow | ewww |
| 13:36.10 | Aqua | i'm on my vista box atm, sorry, i'd have to switch over eventually |
| 13:36.19 | Arrowmaster | MuNk: no |
| 13:36.37 | bluspacecow | it writes badly outdated code |
| 13:36.40 | MuNk | any recommendations? |
| 13:36.49 | Arrowmaster | www.wowprogramming.com |
| 13:36.51 | bluspacecow | take an addon you like |
| 13:36.55 | bluspacecow | and pull it apart |
| 13:37.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Nitra (n=Nitra@78-70-174-173-no155.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:37.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 13:37.40 | MuNk | fair enough |
| 13:37.52 | tlund | i know there is an addon that makes green/blue/purple border around items in the bags and in the characterpane, but my googleskills fail me when i try to find it :( any hints?! |
| 13:38.44 | Arrowmaster | fizzle i think |
| 13:39.38 | tlund | thanks |
| 13:40.30 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:41.13 | MuNk | I want to do a variatioin on the Need-Greed system, anyone know a addon that works with this at all? |
| 13:42.31 | bluspacecow | hmm |
| 13:42.33 | bluspacecow | tlund |
| 13:42.37 | TopTop18 | MuNK, I just got the wowprogframming book and it's great! |
| 13:42.38 | bluspacecow | bagnon does that too now |
| 13:43.07 | bluspacecow | written by cogwheel and a few other notables i cant remember but totally not a dig against them |
| 13:43.14 | Bruners | tlund: oGlow ! |
| 13:44.58 | aesir | MuNk: Two different modified loot rollers were pushed recently, but I don't use them so their names got instantly flushed from my brain cache. Search for loot roll addon or similar and I think you'll find something close to what you are looking for. |
| 13:45.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Nitra (n=Nitra@78-70-174-173-no155.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:45.39 | MuNk | ok thank aesir |
| 13:46.12 | aesir | Well, I just searched "loot" at wowinterface and got a bunch of likely suspects. |
| 13:46.26 | aesir | stuff like this http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5855-Lootster.html |
| 13:47.06 | dardack | tlund i use bagnon that does that |
| 13:47.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 13:47.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 13:47.16 | dardack | nvm bluspacecow already mentioned that |
| 13:47.17 | dardack | i fail |
| 13:47.23 | bluspacecow | I did ? |
| 13:47.48 | dardack | [09:42]<bluspacecow>bagnon does that too now |
| 13:48.36 | aesir | OneBag3, ArkInventory, Bagnon (and Combuctor) have bag glow features. I don't know if they also glowify paperdoll equipped items |
| 13:48.54 | bluspacecow | heh i fail |
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| 13:52.18 | tlund | dardack: but .. i just want the border, nothing else |
| 13:53.19 | dardack | well i always hated having separate bag windows, but bagnon now uses the same skin as blizz's bag's just keeps it in one window, no idea of one that just glowifies blizz's standard bags |
| 13:53.35 | dardack | plus i like being able to double click the top bar and typing in words to hightlight what i'm looking for |
| 13:53.46 | dardack | cause sometimes your eyes just glance over what your looking for |
| 13:57.25 | Wobin | Classy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSXbVm9E8c |
| 14:00.13 | Grum | Bolero is bloody awesome :) |
| 14:00.38 | Wobin | I like their History of Music too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG6Ef-NQCi4&feature=related |
| 14:00.42 | Grum | reminds me of holidays when i was tiny, they would play that on the camping we were each morning from very soft to BLOODY hard :P |
| 14:01.09 | Wobin | how many riffs can you recognise! |
| 14:01.27 | Wobin | Grum: our school orchestra used it as a encore piece |
| 14:01.44 | Grum | quite amazing they manage to do it on 1 instrument O.o |
| 14:01.47 | Wobin | They'd finish their concert and the conductor would turn around to talk to the audience |
| 14:02.24 | Wobin | and while his back was turned, the whole orchestra buggered off, except for one person on a snare drum, meanwhile, the conductor is talking up the whole encore piece, saying how wonderful it is and everything |
| 14:02.33 | Wobin | Then he turns back, and there's just one guy sitting there |
| 14:02.36 | Wobin | "Oh." |
| 14:02.42 | Wobin | "Well, we'll see what we can do" |
| 14:02.51 | Wobin | and then everyone comes in, one instrument at a time =P |
| 14:03.15 | Grum | nice :D |
| 14:03.27 | Wobin | You know, I think I saw Stringfever in Dublin |
| 14:03.29 | Wobin | busking =) |
| 14:03.39 | Wobin | I recognise their instruments |
| 14:04.00 | Grum | those skeletal electric guitars look awesome :) |
| 14:04.09 | Grum | fg |
| 14:04.12 | Grum | wce :( |
| 14:04.15 | Wobin | ahahah |
| 14:04.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Erkki (n=Vilkku@86-60-149-169-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 14:04.25 | Wobin | there are some awesome effects you can do with electric string instruments |
| 14:05.04 | Grum | awsome that history of music :D |
| 14:05.05 | Grum | haha |
| 14:07.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@213.39.222.74) |
| 14:15.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Addys (n=adys@AMarseille-252-1-51-92.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 14:19.53 | foxlit | "Whatcouldpossiblygowrong!" "Blue sky of death?" |
| 14:20.05 | Lopeppeppy | Cat invasion |
| 14:26.43 | Wobin | Grum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrV9CL3IpGc&feature=related the movie medley |
| 14:27.14 | ZorbaTHut | I wish low-level water was better :( I'm at level 28 and the level25 water only regenerates about 70% of my mana |
| 14:27.35 | Grum | pfft they can almost get 'vocals' from those instruments :D |
| 14:27.40 | foxlit | clearly you're wearing too much int! |
| 14:27.53 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, probably true, admittedly, I am fully heirloomed-out |
| 14:27.57 | foxlit | [Universal solution to all problems: take off your pants] |
| 14:28.22 | ZorbaTHut | I wonder if I'm gonna end up doing pantsless heroic tanking in 3.2 |
| 14:28.26 | Lopeppeppy | I concur, foxlit |
| 14:29.04 | theorbtwo | , personally, wants an achievement for killing things more then N levels higher then you while naked and bare-handed. |
| 14:29.20 | foxlit | and not being a paladin |
| 14:29.31 | foxlit | "You are not a paladin + 10 Achievement Points" |
| 14:29.55 | theorbtwo | (Or something like that. Tweak as appropriate for level 80s.) |
| 14:30.31 | Grum | Wobin: lol .. 2:33 .. that is some freaky sound they get from their instruments :D |
| 14:32.18 | Wobin | innit great? =) |
| 14:33.23 | ZorbaTHut | yeah that really would be the "you're a paladin/druid" achievement |
| 14:33.33 | ZorbaTHut | at the very least, it would also be the "you're not a warrior" achievement |
| 14:33.36 | Grum | Wobin: its completely awesome :D |
| 14:33.37 | ZorbaTHut | (rogue also) |
| 14:33.53 | dardack | i tank naxx pantless |
| 14:34.05 | Wobin | pft |
| 14:34.08 | Wobin | doesn't everyone? |
| 14:34.12 | Wobin | It's so much more comfortable |
| 14:34.14 | Grum | so you are tripplewielding? |
| 14:34.35 | dardack | i wish i could DW 2h's as a dk |
| 14:35.19 | ZorbaTHut | I hope DKs can never, ever do that. it's one of the few cool things warriors have left :P |
| 14:35.25 | dardack | i know |
| 14:35.45 | dardack | i know when 3.2 comes out i'm going to be tanking heroics all day long |
| 14:35.57 | dardack | i get whispers all day now |
| 14:36.00 | dardack | gonna be worse in 3.2 |
| 14:36.43 | Kalroth | spec ret! |
| 14:36.45 | ZorbaTHut | I'm unsure if I'm looking forward to it or not. I mean, awesome, I can get better gear in heroics now, yay |
| 14:36.49 | foxlit | http://www.commandandconquer.com/cnc4/index.html < moo? |
| 14:37.05 | ZorbaTHut | but it seems to be curiously true that if you take a bad player, and give them really good gear, they somehow turn into a *worse* player |
| 14:37.17 | Kalroth | haha |
| 14:37.23 | dardack | true zarba |
| 14:37.29 | ZorbaTHut | and I'm really not looking forward to that :P |
| 14:37.30 | dardack | zorba |
| 14:38.49 | Shirik|Ghost | foxlit: Conclusion? |
| 14:39.11 | dardack | yea more dk tanks will be out, and at least on my server (if your not in an Ulduar raiding guild) a lot suck as tank |
| 14:39.13 | foxlit | Shirik: meh, they've already written their lifetime-allowance of sequels. |
| 14:39.25 | Shirik|Ghost | lol |
| 14:39.40 | Shirik|Ghost | it's ok they have 3 expansions allowed for it anyway |
| 14:40.13 | ZorbaTHut | at this point I honestly feel like, with a few exceptions, if you want to raid and you're not in an Ulduar raiding guild, it's either because you're a new 80 or because you're terrible at it |
| 14:40.25 | foxlit | I was actually considering buying RA3:Uprising, but, to my surprise, retail stores around here don't stock it. |
| 14:40.35 | ZorbaTHut | beginning ulduar raiding is easy enough that you can at least take a shot at it even without much experience |
| 14:40.37 | Shirik|Ghost | or because you don't want to be, ZorbaTHut |
| 14:40.41 | Fisker | It was a digital only release foxlit |
| 14:40.44 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, that's why I said "if you want to raid" |
| 14:40.49 | Shirik|Ghost | oh |
| 14:40.50 | dardack | eh i haven't left my guild cause i'm more casual and i've been playing with some of these guys for 3.5 yrs, but we are only at thorim |
| 14:40.52 | foxlit | Fisker: So I can only get it at EA Crapstore? |
| 14:40.58 | foxlit | Nerf that. |
| 14:40.59 | ZorbaTHut | yes, obviously there's an exception there for people who are just uninterested ;) |
| 14:41.03 | Shirik|Ghost | dardack: That still qualifies as "ulduar raiding" |
| 14:41.08 | ZorbaTHut | dardack, that counts, yeah |
| 14:41.11 | dardack | true |
| 14:41.16 | ZorbaTHut | my guild's working on Yogg but hasn't hit up any hardmodes yet |
| 14:41.17 | dardack | i've just pugged up to mirion |
| 14:41.23 | Fisker | They didn't think the release could warrant a full retail release |
| 14:41.25 | nicoli_s | btw, everyone see the shiny new screenie from the new cc? |
| 14:41.29 | Fisker | i.e. waste of resources, money, etc. |
| 14:41.29 | ZorbaTHut | man, pugs on my server can barely take down FL |
| 14:41.31 | dardack | please tell me you've at leaset done 2 tower Levi? |
| 14:41.39 | ZorbaTHut | dardack, nope. |
| 14:41.45 | dardack | 1 tower? |
| 14:41.49 | ZorbaTHut | 1-tower 10-man. 0-tower 25-man, our GL refuses to try until we beat Yogg :( |
| 14:41.56 | dardack | what? |
| 14:41.57 | MuNk | Any recommended tools , docs etc.. concerning UI design guys? |
| 14:42.01 | dardack | 1 tower is cake on 25/10 |
| 14:42.03 | foxlit | NOTEPAD. |
| 14:42.06 | foxlit | EoS |
| 14:42.08 | ZorbaTHut | (we'd probably be managing more with 10-man if we could actually get a full guild 10-man group going) |
| 14:42.09 | dardack | and 2 tower 10 is almost cake |
| 14:42.11 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (n=bluspace@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 14:42.22 | ZorbaTHut | dardack, yeah, I know. We'd destroy it. But no, he doesn't want to spend time on it until Yogg is dead. |
| 14:42.25 | ZorbaTHut | (i think this is silly) |
| 14:42.26 | dardack | don't thorw anyone, keep 10 stacks from both demo's |
| 14:42.45 | dardack | man my guild casuals, first night of 2 tower tooks us 2 attempts, now we 1 shot |
| 14:43.00 | dardack | we hvaven't tried 3 just so we can get attempts at thorim |
| 14:43.11 | dardack | still have issues with hodir too |
| 14:43.12 | ZorbaTHut | yeah. there's a few problems with my guild. I think the GL isn't doing it because he wants to beat cool bosses |
| 14:43.20 | ZorbaTHut | he's doing it because he wants to be leading a guild that's really high on the rankings |
| 14:43.24 | dardack | oh |
| 14:43.31 | ZorbaTHut | and he thinks yogg is more important than X-tower FL, so we do Yogg. |
| 14:43.44 | dardack | eh i used to be like that hard raiding guild in pre BC early BC, but had a couple kids, bought a house |
| 14:44.02 | ZorbaTHut | unfortunately, he's head-and-shoulders above the other options on the server, and I haven't wanted to transfer yet :P |
| 14:44.06 | dardack | what about hardmode XT with that sick 2h, omg i drool over that in my atlasloot, heh |
| 14:44.17 | ZorbaTHut | pfft, sick 2h? sick 1h tanking mace |
| 14:44.22 | ZorbaTHut | and yes I drool over that one :P |
| 14:44.50 | dardack | the 2h has 2 gem slots with str/stam tanking dk dream |
| 14:45.04 | dardack | heh |
| 14:45.07 | ZorbaTHut | the 1h has more DPS than a Titansteel Destroyer. |
| 14:45.13 | dardack | damn |
| 14:45.24 | dardack | i don't even look at 1h anymore |
| 14:45.29 | dardack | i tried the whole dw thing before the nerf |
| 14:45.32 | dardack | never liked it |
| 14:45.38 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I don't look at 2h ;) |
| 14:45.47 | dardack | true dat |
| 14:45.49 | dardack | pally? |
| 14:45.53 | ZorbaTHut | DKs use normal 2h DPS weapons for tanking, right? there's no "2h tanking weapon"? |
| 14:45.55 | ZorbaTHut | Warrior |
| 14:45.57 | MuNk | so apart form foxlit super suggestion of notepad... is there a complete documentation of the XML Objects and there varbiels any place? |
| 14:46.08 | dardack | well zorba some 2h don't have str/stam |
| 14:46.13 | MuNk | well the UI XML objects wow uses |
| 14:46.16 | foxlit | MuNk: FrameXML/UI.xsd |
| 14:46.17 | ZorbaTHut | ah, hunter statsticks? |
| 14:46.19 | dardack | like the polearm off ignis |
| 14:46.41 | MuNk | ok thank |
| 14:46.42 | dardack | yea high stam/str |
| 14:46.49 | dardack | the best one was heroic naxx trash drop |
| 14:46.53 | dardack | str/stam/and agil for dodge |
| 14:47.02 | dardack | i haven't found an equivelant in ulduar yet |
| 14:47.27 | dardack | i know a dk tank that is in all t8/8.5 and still uses that for tanking |
| 14:47.33 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, they really don't want to add an entire new category of weapon for dk tanking |
| 14:47.48 | dardack | which is fine, just put some agil or something on it |
| 14:48.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@76.107.188.90) |
| 14:48.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:48.21 | dardack | i'm unlucky with drops anyways, i was lucky once 25 man voa t8.5 pants, first week, since then barely anything |
| 14:48.29 | dardack | i finally broke down and bought the 12 orbs to make the boots/belt |
| 14:49.22 | dardack | although both times our dps dk hasn't been there for hodir kill the 2h from hodir has dropped so i have 2 of those, 1 for tanking, 1 for dps enchanted |
| 14:49.30 | ZorbaTHut | haha, nice |
| 14:49.38 | dardack | yea has a ton of hit on it |
| 14:49.42 | dardack | so helps a lot |
| 14:49.58 | ZorbaTHut | I managed to pick up no less than six onspec upgrades on my first naxx25 run with my guild, plus Armageddon for offspec |
| 14:50.04 | ZorbaTHut | it was pretty sweet |
| 14:51.50 | dardack | nice, yea i took my time leveling my dk, leveled my BC main first (shaman) but always had wanted to try tanking, and i kinda fell in love in my first UK instance at 70 on my DK, so by the time i was 80 my guild was already clearing naxx 25, so they were short the day i turned 80, so i kinda got dragged along, i got my t7.5 pants/shoulders/chest first run and the first OS 25 run i got my... |
| 14:51.52 | dardack | ...gloves, since then i think the wow universe said you were too lucky that first week |
| 14:52.26 | dardack | finally draenor back up |
| 14:52.34 | bluspacecow | realm down ? |
| 14:52.56 | dardack | my realm was part of that 3 hr maintenance this morn |
| 14:53.08 | dardack | i hope they finally fix that instance full crap |
| 14:54.03 | bluspacecow | oh dear |
| 14:54.07 | bluspacecow | ~/pat dardack |
| 14:54.15 | bluspacecow | ~pat dardack |
| 14:54.16 | purl | ACTION pats dardack and says "Nicely Done!" |
| 14:54.26 | bluspacecow | -_- purl .... |
| 14:54.28 | dardack | anyone know if pitbull supports the dk runes? they are just stuck in the upper left corner |
| 14:55.53 | Lopeppeppy | I thought PB4 did. |
| 14:56.09 | dardack | oh i have 3 |
| 14:56.11 | dardack | crap |
| 14:56.18 | dardack | do i have to redo all my customization? |
| 14:56.19 | Lopeppeppy | That might explain that, Lucy. |
| 14:56.22 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy_ (n=stolenle@d86-32-223-111.cust.tele2.at) |
| 14:56.28 | Lopeppeppy | I have no idea. |
| 14:56.51 | Seerah | yes |
| 14:56.57 | Lopeppeppy | http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/pitbull4.aspx |
| 14:56.57 | Seerah | but you'll have to switch eventually :p |
| 14:57.11 | dardack | oh crap |
| 14:57.15 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@69.73.16.202) |
| 14:57.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 14:57.57 | Seerah | or you could use a rune mod |
| 14:58.18 | Lopeppeppy | Or you could use a rune mod. :) |
| 14:58.19 | dardack | yea but if i have to switch eventually |
| 14:58.26 | dardack | might as well do it now |
| 14:58.53 | dardack | does pitbull4 support vertical 3d portraits like pb3 did? |
| 15:00.18 | Lopeppeppy | Dunno. I'd assume so, but you'll find out right quick. |
| 15:00.36 | dardack | yep logging in now |
| 15:01.06 | dardack | aparently righ tout of the box it does heh |
| 15:01.49 | Lopeppeppy | My personal understanding was that version 4 was about making configuration easier. |
| 15:02.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=EAndre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 15:02.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 15:04.20 | Cruciformer | greetings earthlings (and other assorted aliens) |
| 15:04.36 | Nafe | ~FrameXML |
| 15:04.37 | purl | Get the official Blizzard Interface AddOn Kit: http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=21465 or view it online at http://wowcompares.com/ |
| 15:04.44 | Nafe | thanks purl =) |
| 15:05.21 | TopTop18 | 'Hmm any ETA for when Jnwhiteh becomes active? |
| 15:08.01 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: sup |
| 15:08.14 | Grum | TopTop18: NOW!! |
| 15:08.17 | TopTop18 | xD |
| 15:08.22 | Grum | oh dang too late |
| 15:08.34 | cogwheel | rawr |
| 15:08.46 | TopTop18 | Scroll back till when I called your name, need some comments on the ideas from there |
| 15:08.47 | jnwhiteh | purl, no FrameXML is Get the official Blizzard Interface AddOn Kit: http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=21465 or view it online at http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser |
| 15:08.47 | purl | okay, jnwhiteh |
| 15:09.11 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: no offense, but i got lots going on, can you pastey or coy them for me. |
| 15:09.14 | jnwhiteh | don't have much time to go hunting |
| 15:09.20 | TopTop18 | Okay |
| 15:09.24 | TopTop18 | gonna spit the log :D |
| 15:09.37 | foxlit | jnwhiteh: does that page really have to display the file names twice? |
| 15:09.43 | jnwhiteh | to me in PMs |
| 15:09.47 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: no, it doesn't. |
| 15:09.49 | jnwhiteh | good point |
| 15:09.52 | jnwhiteh | i'll clean it up at some point |
| 15:10.00 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: don't do it here, pastey it or PM it to me, please. |
| 15:11.14 | TopTop18 | I'll pastey the log |
| 15:12.00 | TopTop18 | Shall I cut out irrelevant stuff? |
| 15:12.07 | jnwhiteh | that would help me =) |
| 15:12.10 | jnwhiteh | but if its at the top |
| 15:12.11 | jnwhiteh | i can skip with my eyes |
| 15:12.32 | TopTop18 | I've already cut the part that matters, but still a lot of log on/off messages in there |
| 15:12.46 | bluspacecow | hai cog |
| 15:13.13 | cogwheel | hai2u |
| 15:13.44 | Ackis | jnwhiteh: so is wowcompares not being updated anymore? |
| 15:13.50 | jnwhiteh | Ackis: at the moment its broken |
| 15:13.54 | jnwhiteh | so i'm hosting the compares |
| 15:13.56 | jnwhiteh | err |
| 15:13.59 | jnwhiteh | the live/ptr |
| 15:14.03 | Ackis | ah |
| 15:14.05 | jnwhiteh | and wowace is hosting the diffs of the framexml |
| 15:14.12 | Ackis | cool stuff |
| 15:15.07 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 15:15.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 15:16.52 | dardack | anyone know in pitbull4 where the disable portrail option is? |
| 15:17.06 | bluspacecow | there was a post on wow interface about that ackis ...something about the author wanting to recode wowcompares now its on wow interface |
| 15:17.52 | Shirik_ | man, I feel like I missed daylight savings time or something |
| 15:17.58 | Shirik_ | there's practically nobody here |
| 15:18.17 | bluspacecow | hai shitik |
| 15:18.26 | bluspacecow | >_< |
| 15:18.31 | bluspacecow | sorry sorry sorry |
| 15:18.35 | bluspacecow | Shirik |
| 15:19.16 | Wobin | http://blog.sanriotown.com/nanao_chan:kuririnmail.com/files/2008/05/mario-kids-cosplay.jpg |
| 15:19.29 | Shirik | I meant at work |
| 15:19.30 | Shirik | not here :) |
| 15:19.45 | TopTop18 | Jnwhiteh, http://pastey.net/117318 |
| 15:19.56 | TopTop18 | Only cutted links out |
| 15:20.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Jim-Bim (n=thorben_@217.231.5.60) |
| 15:20.51 | Wobin | jnwhiteh: there are two people that have no idea what cosplay is =) *points up* |
| 15:20.57 | jnwhiteh | >< |
| 15:21.00 | *** join/#wowuidev cyndis (i=cyndis@82-128-203-74-Korvensuora-TR1.suomi.net) |
| 15:21.02 | jnwhiteh | thats because it does not exist |
| 15:22.41 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: How do you merge two officer's data? |
| 15:22.44 | foxlit | wru, PHP's Lua unpack? |
| 15:22.49 | TopTop18 | Jnwhiteh, Edited version that leaves discussion stuff |
| 15:22.57 | jnwhiteh | I read it |
| 15:22.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@24.126.106.246) |
| 15:22.59 | jnwhiteh | no ned, thanks. |
| 15:23.55 | TopTop18 | Okay, officer logs on, addon checks latest tag available for each person, request new date when needed, then checks own database for missing entries and request when needed |
| 15:24.10 | jnwhiteh | okay |
| 15:24.13 | jnwhiteh | but two officers have conflicting data |
| 15:24.17 | jnwhiteh | how do you merge it? |
| 15:24.21 | Shirik | foxlit: It exists |
| 15:24.26 | Shirik | I can't remember the name |
| 15:24.38 | TopTop18 | Q: how do conflicting data occur? |
| 15:24.43 | foxlit | Shirik: the closest I remember is list(), but that's a very different thing |
| 15:24.45 | Shirik | not exactly in the same form though |
| 15:24.47 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: for example, there's no 100% reliable way to get the server time in seconds |
| 15:25.04 | jnwhiteh | so for timestamps to work, everything has to happen a full minute apart |
| 15:25.14 | foxlit | I wanted to do something like sprintf('blah', unpack($array)); |
| 15:25.26 | TopTop18 | Don't the tags make up for that? |
| 15:25.36 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: why, each person has their own tag |
| 15:25.40 | jnwhiteh | unless i'm missing something |
| 15:25.49 | jnwhiteh | what about corrupt data? |
| 15:25.54 | jnwhiteh | where's the integrity check? |
| 15:26.14 | TopTop18 | Every new entry gets data/time attached AND a number tag |
| 15:26.23 | TopTop18 | No integrity check yet |
| 15:26.33 | jnwhiteh | where does the number tag come from? |
| 15:26.48 | TopTop18 | +1 onto last data known |
| 15:26.50 | TopTop18 | Hmm |
| 15:26.52 | jnwhiteh | and the problem gets much more complex with integrity :P |
| 15:27.01 | Shirik | ah well I don't think that can work foxlit |
| 15:27.24 | Shirik | I don't think php's interpreter is prepared to work with the fact that a function might have multiple return values |
| 15:27.54 | TopTop18 | IThe number tags and date/time are to doublecheck stuff, Only need to think up what it'ld do when two same numbers occur |
| 15:27.59 | Shirik | that being said, sprintf should just take an array :) |
| 15:28.06 | Shirik | or be like C# |
| 15:28.15 | Shirik | and there's no difference between an array and a set of arguments |
| 15:28.31 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: WIthout integrity, the system isn't worth all that much =/ |
| 15:28.46 | TopTop18 | q: what exactly is integrity xD |
| 15:28.51 | jnwhiteh | I can run a macro |
| 15:28.54 | jnwhiteh | and increase my dkp |
| 15:28.56 | jnwhiteh | or remove someone elses's |
| 15:29.01 | jnwhiteh | your system cannot catch this |
| 15:29.21 | TopTop18 | It'ld check for officer/gm status? |
| 15:29.25 | jnwhiteh | what good is a database when anyone can inject whatever data they want |
| 15:29.27 | jnwhiteh | and trust all your GMs? |
| 15:29.35 | jnwhiteh | offiers, I mean |
| 15:29.37 | TopTop18 | Yes we do |
| 15:29.44 | jnwhiteh | then go nuts =) |
| 15:29.56 | TopTop18 | ? |
| 15:30.05 | TopTop18 | We only ahve like 5 officers |
| 15:30.19 | Kraps | how many do you need? |
| 15:30.44 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: if you're willing to blindly trust data, then your system will work as long as you figure out how to deal with conflicts |
| 15:30.46 | jnwhiteh | and merging |
| 15:31.00 | Kraps | loot council ftw |
| 15:31.35 | TopTop18 | That's what I got to figure out xD But yes we trust officers->We rtrust the adjustments by officers->we trust the data :D |
| 15:31.42 | *** join/#wowuidev tem|work (i=d195b804@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 15:31.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem|work] by ChanServ |
| 15:31.48 | jnwhiteh | yes |
| 15:31.57 | jnwhiteh | but what happens when I make it look like you made an adjustment to another guild member |
| 15:32.00 | Kraps | in my last guild EVERYTHING was LC, current one only weapons |
| 15:32.09 | TopTop18 | Explain? |
| 15:32.22 | jnwhiteh | Of course if I fake data |
| 15:32.25 | TopTop18 | I made an adjustment? |
| 15:32.28 | jnwhiteh | I'm not goign to make it appear as if I did it. |
| 15:32.34 | jnwhiteh | so I inject a record into the Db |
| 15:32.39 | jnwhiteh | saying that you adjusted someon eelse's data |
| 15:32.52 | jnwhiteh | that info spreads to 2-3 other people |
| 15:32.56 | jnwhiteh | so you dont know wher eit originated from |
| 15:32.58 | jnwhiteh | when you actually get it |
| 15:33.01 | TopTop18 | oO we don't have people in guild that know anything about programming xD |
| 15:33.03 | jnwhiteh | and say "hey, i didn't do this" |
| 15:33.37 | TopTop18 | You no fake data, to fake data is bad! But I get the problem |
| 15:34.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Lukian (n=wizard@203.171.70.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au) |
| 15:34.12 | alestane | Unless you want to issue a public key to your officers and build the private key into the data parser, it's really really hard to defend the integrity of a distributed database like that. |
| 15:34.38 | alestane | I suppose you could look into the work they've done trying to secure DNS against spoofers, that might be of interest. |
| 15:34.55 | TopTop18 | I'll look it up |
| 15:35.01 | tem|work | fuck me it's only 10:30 and I'm out of ways to waste time |
| 15:35.09 | tem|work | longest friday ever |
| 15:35.28 | alestane | Oh right, you're in Leezianna. |
| 15:35.29 | Cide | http://dev.ctmud.net |
| 15:35.30 | Cide | go play |
| 15:35.47 | TopTop18 | Password to enter data would help ye |
| 15:35.55 | tem|work | alestane: how does that relate to my level of friday boredom? |
| 15:35.59 | *** part/#wowuidev ckanight (n=stolenle@d86-32-223-111.cust.tele2.at) |
| 15:36.06 | alestane | It relates to the fact that it's 10:30. |
| 15:36.14 | Cide | (don't, the demo is very limited) |
| 15:36.19 | TopTop18 | it's 17:36! |
| 15:36.20 | ZorbaTHut | you don't really need to build it into the parser, just add a little button to have everyone mail/tell each other their keys |
| 15:37.20 | jnwhiteh | Cide: the header is too big =/ |
| 15:37.21 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (n=stolenle@d86-32-223-111.cust.tele2.at) |
| 15:37.25 | Seerah | tem|work: you could read through all the Dark Legacy, Looking For Group, and/or Flintlocke comics.... or play this: http://shygypsy.com/farm/p.cgi |
| 15:37.27 | jnwhiteh | i have to scroll to see anything |
| 15:37.31 | TopTop18 | Just a secure window before you can enter data: "Key please", that way it don;t have to check if an officer is supplying data, the password would be enough to protect the data? |
| 15:37.33 | Cide | jnwhiteh: I'm aware of the issue |
| 15:37.34 | tem|work | alestane: oh right you're east coast |
| 15:37.46 | jnwhiteh | kk |
| 15:37.51 | Cide | jnwhiteh: we're likely hiding/making it smaller for the game page |
| 15:37.56 | Cide | so you don't have to scroll |
| 15:37.59 | tem|work | I was thinking about doing more Euler Project puzzels |
| 15:38.07 | tem|work | but I don't have an install of python on this machine |
| 15:38.08 | Cide | it's probably staying for the main pages though |
| 15:38.14 | ZorbaTHut | toptop, the question is whether you're trying to protect against people who won't touch the source, or people who will |
| 15:38.17 | Cide | tem|work: lua> :P |
| 15:38.17 | alestane | Peppy, Cairenn|afk and I are all on EDT right now. Shirik often is, but I'm not sure about this exact moment. |
| 15:38.19 | tem|work | and there's only so much you can do with a web shell |
| 15:38.29 | ZorbaTHut | if the former, just embed a list of authorized users into the mod and refuse to let people enter data unless their current username is one of those |
| 15:38.34 | Seerah | alestane: his Internship is in WA, so no :) |
| 15:38.37 | ZorbaTHut | it's totally insecure, but it may be good enough |
| 15:38.39 | Shirik | I'm not currently, no |
| 15:38.43 | tem|work | Cide: I don't think lua bot is going to like me doing things like finding every prime from 1-2e7 and summing them |
| 15:38.45 | Shirik | I'm usually on EDT, but right now on PDT |
| 15:38.51 | Cide | tem|work: probably not... |
| 15:38.58 | Cide | plus |
| 15:39.00 | alestane | Seerah is...Central? |
| 15:39.02 | Seerah | I'm CDT! /me huggles tem |
| 15:39.04 | Seerah | yep |
| 15:39.05 | Cide | list comprehensions are just too fun for that |
| 15:39.11 | tem|work | exactly |
| 15:39.32 | tem|work | sum([x for x in range(2e7) if isprime(x)]) |
| 15:39.33 | tem|work | done |
| 15:40.03 | TopTop18 | Zorbathut, I don;t thinkI'm defending against people who won't touch the source, but if they do we can;t do anything against it |
| 15:40.20 | jnwhiteh | Cide: seems fun Cide |
| 15:40.28 | alestane | Where is that "if isprime(x)" syntax documented? It appears to create a query. |
| 15:40.32 | Cide | thanks, it's still early in development |
| 15:40.42 | jnwhiteh | Cide: when entering a new combat it doesn't scroll or clear the old combat window |
| 15:40.44 | Cide | alestane: it's part of the list comprehension syntax, acting like a filter for entries to add |
| 15:40.57 | Cide | jnwhiteh: I know, I think it gets spammy but ts wants it that way |
| 15:40.59 | ZorbaTHut | toptop, if you want to defend against people who will touch the source, you're looking at public-key crypto. |
| 15:41.00 | TopTop18 | So just only let officer/gm enter the "edit mode" will probably be enough defense |
| 15:41.04 | Cide | maybe I can make it a setting |
| 15:41.09 | jnwhiteh | well it just needs to scroll down |
| 15:41.14 | Cide | yeah |
| 15:41.15 | alestane | I just don't recall seeing it the documentation I read before, but it seems really useful for culling lists down. |
| 15:41.21 | TopTop18 | Zorbathut, what's that? |
| 15:41.27 | Cide | alestane: I'm pretty sure it's documented |
| 15:41.45 | Cide | jnwhiteh: well, we're making the header smaller on that page so that will also help |
| 15:41.46 | alestane | I figure it is, I just wanted to read up on it more. Make to python.org I guess. |
| 15:41.50 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:41.56 | jnwhiteh | Cide: oh, i meant the actual edit box |
| 15:42.01 | Cide | jnwhiteh: also, is it scrolling up because of a href="#" links? |
| 15:42.05 | Cide | oh |
| 15:42.07 | Cide | it should scroll down |
| 15:42.08 | jnwhiteh | i have to scroll down in the box to see the "combat starting in" message |
| 15:42.10 | ZorbaTHut | cryptography :) basically you can rig things so that person A can send a message which person B can verify as coming from person A, and know that it was not forged |
| 15:42.11 | jnwhiteh | it doesn't for me |
| 15:42.19 | Cide | if the scroll is at the bottom it should auto-scroll |
| 15:42.29 | TopTop18 | Zorbathut, sounds hard |
| 15:42.32 | Cide | but that code relies on a hack so I haven't tested it extensively cross-browser |
| 15:42.33 | ZorbaTHut | WoW actually makes some of crypto's nastier issues quite easy to solve, since you *do* have verified-safe channels that you can rely on |
| 15:42.37 | TopTop18 | And stuff's hard enough already xD |
| 15:42.43 | ZorbaTHut | Yup. It'd be nontrivial. |
| 15:42.52 | Cide | (namely, most browsers set <scrollValue> to the maximum if you attempt to set it to a value above the maximum) |
| 15:42.57 | Wobin | ZorbaTHut: except when you're drunk =) |
| 15:43.03 | Wobin | for custom channels |
| 15:43.06 | ZorbaTHut | someday I need to sit down and write a PKI library for Lua |
| 15:43.10 | TopTop18 | But if someone changes the code for his addon you can;t defend against his messages |
| 15:43.11 | Wobin | although the addon channel is not affected by that |
| 15:43.16 | jnwhiteh | ZorbaTHut: someone already did |
| 15:43.18 | Cide | jnwhiteh: what browser are you running? |
| 15:43.26 | jnwhiteh | ZorbaTHut: allowing for remote trusted patching. |
| 15:43.28 | jnwhiteh | Cide: Safari 4 |
| 15:43.33 | Cide | alright, will check it out |
| 15:43.43 | ZorbaTHut | toptop, with PKI, you can - you can trivially verify that his messages didn't come from someone "in charge", and therefore, you just ignore them |
| 15:43.44 | Cide | unrelated browser news: chrome's new New Tab page is hot |
| 15:43.47 | tem|work | ... I'm compelled to create a character named Hakmud |
| 15:43.53 | tem|work | and tell him he's my buddy |
| 15:43.59 | ZorbaTHut | jn, what's the name of it? |
| 15:44.00 | TopTop18 | Zorbathut, will that also defend against people who chnages the code of their addon nto allow all messages |
| 15:44.02 | Cide | doit |
| 15:44.07 | TopTop18 | From everyone |
| 15:44.18 | Cruciformer | tem: I like that you can finally remove pages from the new tab page |
| 15:44.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Angelike (n=Angelike@dslb-088-073-187-189.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:44.21 | Cide | tem|work: are you talking about my site now or something else? |
| 15:44.22 | TopTop18 | Don;t think it'll cause the message won;t be forged |
| 15:44.30 | tem|work | Cide: yours |
| 15:44.33 | Cide | ah |
| 15:44.35 | Cide | join the arena |
| 15:44.45 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: mafia wars job halp pls!!!! |
| 15:44.47 | tem|work | Cruciformer: in chrome? |
| 15:44.57 | ZorbaTHut | top, it makes it completely impossible for anyone to masquerade as an officer. People could still suppress messages between them, but once the officer logs on those messages would end up sent one way or another anyway |
| 15:45.05 | tem|work | Cide: I'm in LOVE with chrome's new tab page |
| 15:45.11 | Cide | me too |
| 15:45.11 | MuNk | to see if a frame is currently showing is there a Frame:Showing type varible? |
| 15:45.13 | tem|work | I hate using firefox at work now |
| 15:45.16 | ZorbaTHut | also, you could set things up so that they were unable to transmit one message from an officer without also transmitting all previous messages, so they couldn't pick-and-choose |
| 15:45.18 | Cruciformer | tem|work: yup. |
| 15:45.18 | jnwhiteh | MuNk: you can't know that |
| 15:45.20 | tem|work | because chromes thingy is so much better |
| 15:45.25 | jnwhiteh | but there is IsShown and IsVisible |
| 15:45.26 | Cide | MuNk: IsShown() |
| 15:45.27 | jnwhiteh | !api IsShown |
| 15:45.28 | lua_bot | VisibleRegion:IsShown: Returns if the region is shown (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/VisibleRegion/IsShown) |
| 15:45.31 | jnwhiteh | !api IsVisible |
| 15:45.32 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'IsVisible': VisibleRegion:IsVisible, UnitIsVisible |
| 15:45.36 | jnwhiteh | !api Region:IsVisible |
| 15:45.38 | lua_bot | VisibleRegion:IsVisible: Returns if the region is visible (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/VisibleRegion/IsVisible) |
| 15:45.45 | MuNk | ahh thank :) |
| 15:45.58 | tem|work | IsShown is if a frame could be actually visible |
| 15:46.00 | Cide | dang |
| 15:46.12 | jnwhiteh | tem|work: word |
| 15:46.27 | Cide | chrome loads so much faster |
| 15:46.28 | tem|work | IsVisible is if the frame is actually visible and is equivilant to (return IsShown() and parent:IsVisible()) |
| 15:46.50 | tem|work | Cide: you useing ff 3.5 to compare? |
| 15:46.56 | TopTop18 | Zorbathut, I don't really get it yet. What'll happen if someone changes the code from the addon so it will allow changes from his character to, so the data won't be forged but the security avoided |
| 15:47.02 | Cruciformer | tem|work: Now if you hover over one of the page overviews in teh new tab dialog, you get a blue frame. hover a little longer the frame gets an X at the top, and you can remove it. So if you visited a porn site by accident and werent in incognito mode you can remove it :) |
| 15:47.04 | tem|work | it's got a rather nasty "feature" at the moment that causes it to load VERY slowly |
| 15:47.06 | Cide | tem|work: no, maybe it's better |
| 15:47.09 | Cide | oh |
| 15:47.35 | Cide | it's not exactly slow |
| 15:47.38 | ZorbaTHut | toptop, you can't keep people from changing their own client - people can do whatever they want on their client. you *can* keep them from being able to pollute anyone else's client |
| 15:47.41 | Cide | just.. slow-er |
| 15:47.48 | TopTop18 | Well I'll talk about it nwith the officers/GM to get their opinion |
| 15:47.48 | Cide | mostly at launching |
| 15:47.50 | tem|work | rather than seeind the PRNG with the current time or similar like most sane devs, they seed it with data from random temp files on windows |
| 15:47.55 | ZorbaTHut | this way you can make sure that nobody with an unmodified client has their data corrupted by malicious data |
| 15:48.00 | tem|work | which can take upwards of a minute if you have a lot of them |
| 15:48.10 | tem|work | s/seeing/seeding/ |
| 15:48.11 | Cide | wtf? |
| 15:48.14 | Cide | why? |
| 15:48.15 | tem|work | wtf indeed |
| 15:48.17 | TopTop18 | How can you see someone is using a unmodified client? |
| 15:48.31 | ZorbaTHut | you can't. You'd have to assume your officers are not malicious users. :P |
| 15:48.39 | ZorbaTHut | (if they are, you've got bigger problems on your hands anyway) |
| 15:48.51 | TopTop18 | I don;t ment that |
| 15:49.13 | Cide | should enable our multiplayer demo soon |
| 15:49.25 | tem|work | Cruciformer: lol @ "accidently visited a porn site while not incognito" |
| 15:49.38 | Cruciformer | hehe |
| 15:49.38 | Cide | I really hope our server will be able to keep up with it tho :/ |
| 15:49.52 | TopTop18 | What if a normal member adjustes his client so that he's allowed to make changes. Those changes would be send to other clients, as those clients wouldn't know it didn;t originate from a midified client |
| 15:50.12 | ZorbaTHut | toptop, the normal member is unable to create the digital signature that would show it as coming from an officer |
| 15:50.34 | tem|work | Cide: if I choose the pyromancer, am I going to be FUCKED by fire immune mobs? |
| 15:50.35 | Cruciformer | tem|work: But I am right there with you on <3 the new chrome tab thing |
| 15:50.35 | TopTop18 | And how'ld that work |
| 15:50.44 | ZorbaTHut | it's the equivalent of some guy showing up and saying "I have a letter from the police!", and he's got a dingy stained scrap of paper with "PLEAS GIV ME MONY" written on it |
| 15:50.48 | Cide | tem|work: no |
| 15:50.53 | Cide | tem|work: but you ought to pick blademaster |
| 15:50.56 | TopTop18 | Isn;t it easier to build into the client that it only can receive data from an officer? |
| 15:50.59 | Cide | since that's the only class with spells implemented |
| 15:51.01 | ZorbaTHut | well, that's where you need to look into public key signing |
| 15:51.04 | tem|work | hahah okay |
| 15:51.04 | Cide | and not all of them are in |
| 15:51.18 | Cide | and there are like 10 zones you can move in |
| 15:51.20 | ZorbaTHut | yes, you could do that - I assumed you wanted some kind of a distributed database layout. If you're okay with just receiving from officers, that's probably easiest. |
| 15:51.34 | Cide | and the enemies give too little xp since quests aren't in |
| 15:52.22 | TopTop18 | I could also add that they can also RECEIVE from the rank "knight'The knight rank is in our guiold for members that have proven emself worthy raiding, but I've to ask GM if he's okay with that |
| 15:52.58 | ZorbaTHut | again, from a crypto standpoint, you don't want to allow people to receive from anyone that does not also have permission to write messages, unless you're doing something secure to verify who messages actually come from |
| 15:53.57 | TopTop18 | Yep, what I meant was that if we added the rank knight to those who can get updated from you'ld have a larger/better dtabase and more chance to get missing data |
| 15:54.32 | ZorbaTHut | and more people who can infiltrate the database, of course. ;) |
| 15:54.47 | ZorbaTHut | really, it comes down to your particular balance of security/difficulty/trust/need for rapid updates |
| 15:54.55 | ZorbaTHut | if you find a combination of those you're happy with, go for it |
| 15:55.28 | ZorbaTHut | it *is* possible to make a secure system where anyone can help provide rapid updates, and yet it's secure against tampering and only the elite can broadcast accepted changes. But it may not be worth the effort. |
| 15:55.34 | TopTop18 | Yep gotta ask GM/officers for their opinion LD |
| 15:56.02 | ZorbaTHut | jnwhiteh, what's the name of the lua crypto library? |
| 15:56.08 | TopTop18 | Zorbathut, when I have the basis done I'll ask you on how to accomplish that :D |
| 15:56.10 | jnwhiteh | it was never reallyr eleased |
| 15:56.16 | jnwhiteh | and involved the creation and signing outside of wow |
| 15:56.23 | jnwhiteh | since doing it inside was too heavy |
| 15:56.24 | ZorbaTHut | oh bah |
| 15:56.28 | jnwhiteh | Shirik should know something about it, methinks. |
| 15:57.09 | TopTop18 | Shirik? Saty what you know about that thingy please :D |
| 15:57.18 | Shirik | prism? |
| 15:57.20 | TopTop18 | s/saty/say |
| 15:57.26 | ZorbaTHut | I do wish blizz would use something like luajit to speed up lua, but I imagine it's not too important for them |
| 15:57.51 | Shirik | yeah I used it |
| 15:57.54 | Shirik | but I have to go to a meeting |
| 15:57.55 | jnwhiteh | well not much we do in lua is slow |
| 15:57.57 | Shirik | be back in 15 or so |
| 15:58.00 | jnwhiteh | and something liek that wouldn't be made that much faster |
| 15:58.01 | ZorbaTHut | speak for yourself ;) |
| 15:58.09 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 15:58.12 | jnwhiteh | yours is hardly the normal case |
| 15:58.21 | ZorbaTHut | but it's so much fun :D |
| 15:58.27 | jnwhiteh | and LuaJit has its own set of issues |
| 15:58.33 | jnwhiteh | i sincerely doubt you'll ever see something liek that |
| 15:58.42 | ZorbaTHut | and it'd probably help a lot with something like PKI math |
| 15:58.50 | ZorbaTHut | what sort of issues? I've been using it locally pretty extensively without trouble |
| 16:00.50 | tem|work | .. wow |
| 16:00.51 | tem|work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAtC1SzWSXg&fmt=18 |
| 16:00.55 | tem|work | check the voice acting there |
| 16:02.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Qzot2 (n=qzot@mail.guidewire.com) |
| 16:03.32 | Kraps | VERY INTENSE!!!1111 |
| 16:04.06 | MuNk | the best way to create a Frame that changes its varibles is with LUA and CreateFrame aint it? |
| 16:04.21 | krka | MuNk: Lua is actually a portuguese word and it means "moon" ^_^ |
| 16:04.39 | Kraps | tem|work: karen just woke up apparently |
| 16:04.53 | tem|work | drugs imo |
| 16:05.30 | tem|work | Cide: ping |
| 16:05.51 | Cide | pong |
| 16:05.53 | tem|work | blademaster's defend appears to be working oddly |
| 16:06.02 | Cide | it is |
| 16:06.04 | Cide | known bug |
| 16:06.12 | tem|work | I never see the buff fall off |
| 16:06.17 | Cide | that's the bug |
| 16:06.19 | Cide | not sure why yet |
| 16:06.21 | Cide | maybe a regression |
| 16:06.22 | tem|work | do I have the extra dodge permanently? |
| 16:06.29 | tem|work | or is it just a display issue? |
| 16:06.30 | Cide | I don't think the dodge is working either |
| 16:06.35 | tem|work | oh lol |
| 16:06.45 | tem|work | does kick interrupt spells? |
| 16:07.03 | Lopeppeppy | It's *supposed* to... If it hits. |
| 16:07.04 | Cide | no |
| 16:07.18 | Lopeppeppy | Oh well. Too long not playing my rogue. |
| 16:07.38 | Cide | Lopeppeppy: wrong game :P |
| 16:07.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@92.27.243.210) |
| 16:08.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@129.7.93.51) |
| 16:08.58 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, that explains that, now dunnit? |
| 16:09.07 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:09.18 | Lopeppeppy | Good morning, Lunessa-dear. |
| 16:09.24 | Fisker | good night |
| 16:11.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Tristanian (n=Tristani@cpe-77-83-168-214-dsl.netone.gr) |
| 16:11.29 | tem|work | Cide: where can I go to heal? |
| 16:12.29 | Cide | you can't.. there's regeneration implemented but it's off atm |
| 16:13.29 | airtonix | what's this talk of 'blademaster' ? |
| 16:14.53 | MuNk | When two Addons Communicate how do they normally do it, like when Catorgrapher sends nodes of ore to others with the addon |
| 16:15.19 | kd3 | www.wowwiki.com/API_SendAddonMessage |
| 16:15.24 | airtonix | http://www.wowwiki.com/AddOn_communications_protocol |
| 16:15.24 | MuNk | ty |
| 16:15.27 | Cide | tem|work: should be on now |
| 16:15.30 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI8Schos7g0&feature=related number 4 the guy in the red shirt I'M. SO. BAD. ASS. |
| 16:19.06 | tem|work | oh god Kraps |
| 16:19.10 | tem|work | I can't watch any more of this |
| 16:19.15 | tem|work | it hurts |
| 16:19.27 | Kraps | yeah i stopped at that one |
| 16:19.36 | Fisker | this is my :(-face |
| 16:23.24 | alestane | http://notalwaysright.com/honesty-is-the-best-return-policy/2199 *snrk* |
| 16:23.30 | Lunessa | Are we tormenting Fisker for some new reason? |
| 16:24.01 | NightHawkTheSane | we need a reason to do that? |
| 16:24.33 | Torhal | Lunessa: No, Blizzard is. |
| 16:24.40 | Torhal | StarCraft2 beta, and all that. |
| 16:24.52 | Lunessa | Ah, I wondered. |
| 16:25.15 | nicoli_s | tormenting me too :( |
| 16:25.51 | nicoli_s | some people had some fake announcements saying the first phase of sc2 beta had started, but it didnt :( |
| 16:27.22 | alestane | http://notalwaysright.com/introducing-the-ika-chunk/2192 Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot. |
| 16:28.27 | Kraps | alestane: those screwy ol people |
| 16:28.35 | Lopeppeppy | Wonder how keyloggery those fake announcements are. |
| 16:30.01 | Kraps | what about that maelstrom beta eh? i want in! |
| 16:30.20 | alestane | I think there have been at least a few documented keyloggers claiming to be SC2 beta-optins. |
| 16:30.41 | Lopeppeppy | I'm sure, it's too good a scam to pass up. |
| 16:31.53 | nicoli_s | yeah those sc2 keyloggers are pretty hilarious, i saw one called sc2 beta inviter |
| 16:32.01 | nicoli_s | as if you just run a program and then you get invited somewhow |
| 16:34.09 | Lopeppeppy | Sheeple are notoriously stupid |
| 16:34.25 | alestane | You mean that's not how it works? |
| 16:35.02 | Lunessa | OMG, you mean that app was a fake? OH NOES, I PAID TO GET INTO SC2 BETA! |
| 16:35.04 | MuNk | is RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE fired when you join a raid? |
| 16:35.44 | Lopeppeppy | Oh noes, Lunessa! |
| 16:36.12 | airtonix | MuNk, it's fired when just about anything to do with the raid roster changes |
| 16:37.11 | MuNk | it says thats if third party addons are used its not called, so if i used pitbull it wont be called? or is it used no matter what? |
| 16:37.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-207-20.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 16:37.26 | airtonix | ? |
| 16:38.37 | MuNk | wowprogramming. "Please note that only changes made in the standard raid interface will cause this event to fire." |
| 16:38.46 | MuNk | im guessing im reading it wrong? |
| 16:39.02 | airtonix | how else are you going to change the roster? |
| 16:39.45 | MuNk | im not planning to, just want to detect when the player joins a party/raid |
| 16:39.51 | airtonix | the answer to your question is yes |
| 16:40.24 | kd3 | that line refers to mods like ct_ra doing their own MT/MA windows before they got implemented in the default UI |
| 16:42.10 | Nafe | lua> print"A"print"B" |
| 16:42.10 | lua_bot | Nafe: A, B |
| 16:42.25 | Nafe | lua> print("A")print("B") |
| 16:42.25 | lua_bot | Nafe: A, B |
| 16:42.50 | Nafe | lua> fori=1,2doprint"A"end |
| 16:42.51 | lua_bot | Nafe: luabot:1: malformed number near '2doprint' |
| 16:42.59 | Nafe | lua> fori=1,2do print"A"end |
| 16:43.01 | lua_bot | Nafe: luabot:1: malformed number near '2do' |
| 16:43.04 | Nafe | lua> fori=1,2 do print"A"end |
| 16:43.07 | lua_bot | Nafe: A |
| 16:43.23 | Nafe | lua> if1==1thenfori=1,2 do print"A"endend |
| 16:43.24 | lua_bot | Nafe: luabot:1: '=' expected near '==' |
| 16:43.32 | Nafe | lua> if1==1 thenfori=1,2 do print"A"endend |
| 16:43.35 | lua_bot | Nafe: luabot:1: '=' expected near '==' |
| 16:43.46 | Nafe | lua> if 1==1 thenfori=1,2 do print"A"endend |
| 16:43.49 | lua_bot | Nafe: luabot:1: 'then' expected near 'thenfori' |
| 16:43.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (i=martin_j@0x5da167bd.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:43.56 | Lunessa | Nafe: lua-bot takes private messages |
| 16:43.58 | NightHawkTheSane | do that in PMs if you're going to spam |
| 16:44.02 | alestane | You need a space between for and i. |
| 16:44.09 | Nafe | haha awesome thanks Lunessa |
| 16:44.23 | Nafe | sorry about the spam guys =\ |
| 16:45.48 | Lunessa | "Mercury Falling" by Sting is such a good album. |
| 16:49.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom_ (n=nahh@214.80-202-154.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:49.38 | Maldivia | that's the one from mid-90s right? |
| 16:50.20 | Kraps | love the name http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=2947 |
| 16:50.48 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/139063700 |
| 16:50.58 | Lunessa | Maldivia: Yeah. He toured with Natalie Merchant for that album. Awesome show. |
| 16:51.10 | NightHawkTheSane | mmm.. natalie merchant... |
| 16:51.29 | Maldivia | morning Adys :) |
| 16:51.37 | Adys | morning! |
| 16:51.42 | Lunessa | I got smacked hard during that show because I had a "mmm.. natalie merchant..." moment |
| 16:51.53 | Maldivia | hehehe |
| 16:52.43 | Lopeppeppy | She was a PITA to have as a show. |
| 16:52.50 | NightHawkTheSane | seems justifiable to me, Lunessa |
| 16:53.06 | Lunessa | She was singing, and got up to dance on stage, and I said, "I'm in love." My fiance haled off and hit me so hard I had a bruise for a week. |
| 16:53.08 | NightHawkTheSane | (the moment, not the slap) |
| 16:53.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-078-043-049-006.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:53.55 | dardack | pitbull4 doesn't hide the default buff/debuff frame? |
| 16:54.18 | Lopeppeppy | Like, the one up in the corner of the screen? |
| 16:54.46 | Lunessa | It does. As long as you have the auras module active. |
| 16:54.55 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.woot.com/Blog/ViewEntry.aspx?Id=8689 |
| 16:54.57 | dardack | nvm somehow in the module for that hide |
| 16:55.09 | dardack | the only thing not checked was buff/debuffs |
| 16:55.25 | dardack | just figured it would be checked by default |
| 17:01.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 17:12.56 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 17:15.22 | dardack | anyone know the command to close the loot window? |
| 17:16.46 | Nafe|away | ~API CloseLoot |
| 17:16.47 | purl | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_CloseLoot |
| 17:16.47 | NightHawkTheSane | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/ |
| 17:16.51 | Nafe | did I do it wrong? |
| 17:16.52 | Nafe | nvm |
| 17:16.52 | dardack | i searched close loot |
| 17:16.54 | Adys | !api closeloot |
| 17:16.54 | lua_bot | CloseLoot: Ends interaction with a lootable corpse or object (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/CloseLoot) |
| 17:16.56 | dardack | must of typed something wrong |
| 17:17.06 | dardack | thanks |
| 17:21.43 | cogwheel | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHF0VXPanU8 |
| 17:33.48 | Duman | hmm |
| 17:39.01 | cogwheel | lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJV56WUDng |
| 17:39.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Aiiane (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu) |
| 17:46.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Jim-Bim (n=thorben_@pD9E7053C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:46.38 | Ackis | hmm is there a pdf -> jpeg conversion out there? |
| 17:47.24 | Ackis | nm I'm a moron |
| 17:47.36 | durcyn | this is true |
| 17:48.02 | Stanzilla | ^^ |
| 17:48.26 | airtonix | as in you didn't know about imagemagik? |
| 17:48.56 | Ackis | no there's a built in converter in adobe heh |
| 17:49.08 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:49.10 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:50.12 | Stanzilla | Ackis: just take a screenshot :P |
| 17:50.13 | durcyn | or, i dunno, ghostscript |
| 17:50.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 17:51.27 | airtonix | no mc donalds drive through has a button. ITS OK |
| 17:54.28 | *** join/#wowuidev kneeki (n=chatzill@66.45.169.50) |
| 17:54.48 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
| 17:55.01 | Ackis | apparently snake eyes was in the new transformers movie |
| 17:55.16 | Ackis | http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6772_131782376507_608941507_3463314_3067794_n.jpg not sure if you can see that or not |
| 17:55.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-078-043-049-006.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:57.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Kirov (n=Kirov@173-10-85-26-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 17:59.55 | Cide | tem|work: if you care, defend was just a display issue |
| 18:00.01 | Cide | Adys: ping |
| 18:00.05 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.theonion.com/content/columnists/im_not_questing_with_you?utm_source=onion_rss_daily |
| 18:01.56 | Cide | lua> 1-0.6^4 |
| 18:01.57 | lua_bot | Cide: 0.8704 |
| 18:02.10 | Cide | lua> 0.6^4 |
| 18:02.13 | lua_bot | Cide: 0.1296 |
| 18:03.00 | Cide | lua> 0.58^4 |
| 18:03.01 | lua_bot | Cide: 0.11316496 |
| 18:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras_ (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 18:16.24 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 18:16.28 | TopTop18 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:16.33 | TopTop18 | meh |
| 18:19.37 | Adys | Cide: pong |
| 18:20.12 | Adys | ~pong |
| 18:20.12 | purl | ~ping |
| 18:20.45 | Adys | CIDE |
| 18:20.49 | Adys | ANSWER ME MY LOVE :( |
| 18:21.53 | Cide | how long have you used django? |
| 18:26.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-47-184.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:29.09 | nicoli_s | throws a asp.net at django |
| 18:31.57 | Kraps | can a 65 dk do NR? |
| 18:31.58 | Adys | Cide: long enough |
| 18:32.01 | Adys | like a year or so |
| 18:32.08 | Adys | actually wait no |
| 18:32.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:32.17 | Adys | more like 7 months |
| 18:33.47 | alestane | Kraps: I don't thin k you're eligible for most of the quests until 68. |
| 18:34.18 | Kraps | suckage |
| 18:35.08 | Kraps | what if i grind mobs :p |
| 18:35.09 | Kaelten | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5e4YNGlv4o&feature=channel |
| 18:35.24 | Adys | Cide: what did you need? |
| 18:35.40 | Cide | nothing |
| 18:35.48 | Cide | you're too inexperienced |
| 18:35.50 | Cide | lolol jk |
| 18:35.56 | Adys | ? |
| 18:36.06 | Cide | sec |
| 18:42.32 | alestane | Gah. How, again, do you set the characteristics and font of a button's built-in text in XML? Just include a <FontString> inside the <Button> element? |
| 18:44.02 | alestane | No, looks like the <ButtonText> element. |
| 18:46.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:46.52 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi (n=chris@c-75-75-186-99.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:02.36 | alestane | Cool, they sent my old passport back. |
| 19:03.25 | alestane | I get to keep the expired Japanese visa where they stamped in "as entertainer" by accident, stamped a double bar over it, and squeezed the stamp "as instructor" into the space over it. |
| 19:05.50 | Thunder_Child | so instead of "me love you long time" it's "I will teach you how to 'Love me long time'" |
| 19:06.24 | Thunder_Child | s/love me/Me love you/ |
| 19:06.34 | Thunder_Child | stupid caps |
| 19:13.31 | Nechckn_AFK | alestane Were you just renewing? |
| 19:14.21 | alestane | Not quite renewing, it had expired by something like 9 months when we got them redone. |
| 19:14.24 | nicoli_s | hey Adys, you really should just not show the "Retriving tooltip" text if the tooltip loads fast enough, and yers load pretty fast |
| 19:14.49 | Adys | Yeah nicoli_s was thinking the same the other day |
| 19:14.53 | Adys | ill get it done |
| 19:15.08 | nicoli_s | k |
| 19:15.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@78.146.117.120) |
| 19:16.05 | alestane | jnwhiteh: For some reason the wowprogramming reference pages always seem to be one pixel taller than my window. |
| 19:16.24 | alestane | Even when the content comes nowhere near filling the window. |
| 19:18.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:18.30 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 19:18.44 | TopTop18 | Cide? |
| 19:18.52 | Cide | what? |
| 19:19.08 | TopTop18 | Tried that game and got an error on character creation, want a report? |
| 19:19.34 | Cide | just the exception, the file and line number |
| 19:20.32 | Cide | a paste would do but ok |
| 19:21.13 | TopTop18 | http://pastey.net/117335 |
| 19:21.36 | Cide | what name did you put in? |
| 19:21.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Jiminizer (n=jiminize@jiminizer.plus.com) |
| 19:21.50 | TopTop18 | TopTop18 |
| 19:22.11 | TopTop18 | And it did create the character |
| 19:22.35 | Cide | can you post the full error? |
| 19:22.41 | Cide | the source, that is |
| 19:22.51 | TopTop18 | Lost it now :S |
| 19:22.52 | Cide | as in |
| 19:22.54 | Cide | meh |
| 19:23.07 | TopTop18 | I'll save whole error report next time |
| 19:23.37 | Cide | did you hit f5? |
| 19:24.07 | TopTop18 | Nope |
| 19:26.25 | Shirik|AFK | Cide: That looks fun |
| 19:26.28 | Shirik|AFK | what are you releasing? |
| 19:27.01 | nicoli_s | wnats to know too |
| 19:27.02 | TopTop18 | Cide, replicated error |
| 19:27.07 | TopTop18 | I think |
| 19:27.29 | TopTop18 | What info do you wnat= |
| 19:27.30 | TopTop18 | ? |
| 19:27.31 | Shirik|AFK | cheers at Cide using relational databases |
| 19:27.39 | Cide | as opposed to? :P |
| 19:27.43 | Cide | mysql? :D |
| 19:27.45 | Shirik|AFK | MyISAM |
| 19:27.53 | Cide | I'm working on a gam |
| 19:27.54 | Cide | e |
| 19:28.02 | Cide | TopTop18: take the error source |
| 19:28.04 | Cruciformer | Which database do you use? Hopefully it PostgreSQL |
| 19:28.06 | Shirik|AFK | But even people that use a relational database don't always actually USE the relational capabilities |
| 19:28.07 | Cide | the html file |
| 19:28.10 | Cide | Cruciformer: yes |
| 19:28.14 | Shirik|AFK | screw pgsql |
| 19:28.20 | Cruciformer | Cide: *clap* good man |
| 19:28.21 | Shirik|AFK | MySQL + InnoDB is fine |
| 19:28.27 | Cide | but pgsql is better |
| 19:28.31 | Shirik|AFK | nope |
| 19:28.32 | Cide | but innodb is fine |
| 19:28.32 | Shirik|AFK | it's ugly |
| 19:28.48 | Cide | pretty sure pgsql performs better |
| 19:28.52 | Shirik|AFK | it probably does |
| 19:28.54 | Cruciformer | pgsql gives you a much better upgrade path to oracle since its plsql is almost identical. |
| 19:28.55 | Shirik|AFK | but mysql is prettier |
| 19:28.56 | Cide | anyway, it's the recommended database for django |
| 19:28.56 | nicoli_s | mssql ftw |
| 19:29.14 | Shirik|AFK | Cruciformer: If you're using a database and don't have a layer of abstraction, it's your own damn fault |
| 19:29.16 | TopTop18 | Html file? :S |
| 19:29.18 | Cide | so I'd rather use that and get full support |
| 19:29.26 | Cide | TopTop18: the error page |
| 19:29.27 | Cruciformer | and if you care about such things it is muchmore ACID compliant than mysql |
| 19:29.28 | Cide | copy its source |
| 19:29.36 | Cide | and paste it somewhere |
| 19:30.08 | Cide | so did Nechckn_AFK get a worm? |
| 19:30.12 | Cide | Nechckn_AFK> Psst... He used to hang in #Norganna and was the same way. I'm happy he's found a new home! He's very eager, but the "typical" teenager when it comes to actually doing it. |
| 19:30.12 | Cide | <Nechckn_AFK> Not bad by any means, just fun to have around. |
| 19:30.26 | Cide | or is he advertising |
| 19:30.27 | Cruciformer | Shirik|AFK: If you are using an "sql" database and SQl isnt enough of an absrreaction layer in itself your database is wrong. |
| 19:30.41 | Cruciformer | *abstraction ... forgive my typing |
| 19:30.48 | Nechckn_AFK | Wormless |
| 19:30.54 | Shirik|AFK | SQL is nowhere near as standard as it needs to be |
| 19:30.55 | Cide | so what is that thing? :P |
| 19:31.02 | Cide | ^ |
| 19:31.05 | Cide | truth @ Shirik|AFK |
| 19:31.09 | Cide | sadly |
| 19:31.17 | Cide | the standard is evolving slowly |
| 19:31.47 | Cruciformer | Fortuntely yhere is only 1 real commercial contender (Oracle, dont even insult me by saying MS-SQL), and the one open source one that is closes to Oracle is pgsql. |
| 19:32.02 | Shirik|AFK | I encountered this just yesterday when we moved from SQLite (local data per application instance) to SQL Server 7 (shared copy) I noticed significant differences |
| 19:32.12 | Shirik|AFK | hell, I've used databases for years and it took me a while just to find the problem |
| 19:32.18 | nicoli_s | has never had problems with ms-sql |
| 19:32.22 | Shirik|AFK | that being that SQL Server doesn't allow for double quotes for strings |
| 19:32.35 | nicoli_s | yeah, that is really strange |
| 19:32.47 | nicoli_s | and they use the '' to escape instead of the normal \' |
| 19:32.59 | Cruciformer | nicoli_s: I havent had particular porblems with it other than the fact that it doesnt scale adn remote maintenance is much more difficult becuase it runs on Windoze. |
| 19:33.01 | foxlit | And you're sure your normal is standard? |
| 19:33.18 | Shirik|AFK | I'm sayin there really isn't a standard |
| 19:33.20 | alestane | Did you really name your son "Robert'); DROP TABLE Students;--" ? |
| 19:33.30 | Shirik|AFK | there is, but it's not mature enough |
| 19:33.42 | foxlit | I'm not asking *you* :) |
| 19:33.46 | Shirik|AFK | o |
| 19:33.46 | TopTop18 | Still don;t gte what you mean, but here's the whole report: http://pastey.net/117336 |
| 19:34.01 | Cide | TopTop18: right-click, view source |
| 19:34.02 | foxlit | It's \' vs '': that could actually be specified. |
| 19:34.12 | Cide | select all, copy, paste |
| 19:34.27 | Shirik|AFK | We need to get some ISO all up on this junk |
| 19:35.17 | nicoli_s | pshhh standards are overrated |
| 19:35.34 | foxlit | 1987, Shirik. |
| 19:35.37 | Shirik|AFK | yeah, with people like Microsoft and Apple they're mostly worthless anyway |
| 19:35.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Jim-Bim (n=thorben_@pD9E7053C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:35.43 | Nechckn_AFK | especially since few follow them, even when they do exist =) |
| 19:36.12 | TopTop18 | Any place to paste it, cause pastey asks annoying links, and don't wnat to scan 1600 lines fro it xD |
| 19:36.31 | foxlit | There's a pastey-specific link |
| 19:36.46 | Arrowmaster | i sent it to him |
| 19:37.14 | foxlit | that promises to pastey that you are not a bot; at which point it won't ask you to perform a bot task. |
| 19:37.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Devil_Doc (n=null@ip72-192-183-163.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 19:37.16 | Cide | TopTop18: just paste it all |
| 19:37.20 | Cide | on pastey.net |
| 19:37.26 | Cruciformer | Shirik|AFK: Whats wrong with SQL'08? Its an ISO standard (ISO 9075) |
| 19:37.34 | Devil_Doc | Is there a wowui help channel? |
| 19:37.42 | Cide | never seen it |
| 19:37.46 | Shirik|AFK | The standard existing does not imply its relevance |
| 19:37.47 | alestane | When someone says "Disclaimer: Please do not Iceblock, Dispersion, or Bubble when a warrior is bladestorming you. You break the game." is what they really mean, "HEY! No fair getting out of all the damage I was trying to deal to you!"? |
| 19:37.55 | Shirik|AFK | Two things need to happen |
| 19:37.59 | Shirik|AFK | (1) vendors need to follow it |
| 19:38.07 | TopTop18 | http://pastey.net/117337 |
| 19:38.12 | Cruciformer | Shirik|AFK: You asserted ISo need to "get up in this" ... I said it already has. you are changing things. |
| 19:38.13 | foxlit | alestane: likewise, please stop reflecting my pyroblast. |
| 19:38.14 | TopTop18 | good luck with it |
| 19:38.17 | Shirik|AFK | (2) the standard must be feature-complete enough in the majority of cases |
| 19:38.28 | Shirik|AFK | I haven't read that standard |
| 19:39.04 | Shirik|AFK | It's either too new for both #1 and #2 to be satisfied, or there is a reason they aren't being satisfied (in which case ISO needs to try again) |
| 19:39.16 | Cruciformer | then how do you know its not feature-complete? And realistically, can ANY standard every be feature *complete*? |
| 19:39.23 | Shirik|AFK | and btw |
| 19:39.28 | Shirik|AFK | I say "on this" not "in this" |
| 19:39.55 | Devil_Doc | Is there a WoWUI help channel? |
| 19:39.56 | Shirik|AFK | (1) I never said I thought it wasn't feature-complete, and (2) you dropped off the word immediately following feature-complete |
| 19:40.00 | Cide | Devil_Doc: never seen one |
| 19:40.15 | Devil_Doc | thanks Cide |
| 19:40.23 | Cide | ... |
| 19:40.27 | Cide | Devil_Doc: this is it |
| 19:40.39 | Devil_Doc | Oh |
| 19:40.41 | Shirik|AFK | He may actually mean WoWUI, as in incgamers |
| 19:40.44 | Devil_Doc | Thanks again :) |
| 19:40.47 | foxlit | "DARPA Stops Trying Not to Be Terrifying, Funds Chainsaw-Wielding, Flesh-Eating Robot" |
| 19:41.04 | Devil_Doc | I'm having trouble getting a UI I downloaded to behave. |
| 19:41.05 | alestane | Wherefore art the test realms down? |
| 19:41.15 | foxlit | Patch. |
| 19:41.17 | Shirik|AFK | wouldn't that be "whyfore"? |
| 19:41.18 | foxlit | Or something. |
| 19:41.35 | foxlit | The answer is "Therefore", so there's a bit of logic there. |
| 19:42.42 | Devil_Doc | I'm trying to use the BlinkyUI. I've followed the install directions, enabled all permissions on folders and files, have "run as admin" set where appropriate, and have read the comments thread associated with the UI and the FAQ. But I'm still having trouble. All the UI elements are mashed into the center of the screen |
| 19:43.08 | alestane | Shirik: No, "wherefore" asks a reason. Hence the whole "Wherefore art thou *Romeo*?" i.e. "Why do you have to be this guy my family hates?" |
| 19:43.27 | Shirik|AFK | it was more of a joke :P |
| 19:43.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Mikk (n=Mikk@217-210-105-33-no19.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:43.49 | Shirik|AFK | However, I always thought that was more of a "where are you romeo" |
| 19:44.00 | alestane | foxlit: All they say right now is, "Down for 4-6 hours starting 10am PDT". |
| 19:44.08 | Shirik|AFK | as I think does most of the rest of the world (probably incorrectly) |
| 19:44.21 | nicoli_s | i always thought wherefore meant where is too |
| 19:44.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik|AFK: nothing probably about it. :P |
| 19:44.32 | Devil_Doc | or is it "Why are you Rpme"? |
| 19:44.38 | Devil_Doc | Romeo* |
| 19:44.52 | Shirik|AFK | well that would be a pretty stupid question |
| 19:44.56 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.google.com/search?q=define:wherefore |
| 19:45.03 | Shirik|AFK | obviously it was because that's what his parents named him |
| 19:45.11 | Devil_Doc | don't read that error as "rapeme" |
| 19:45.17 | nicoli_s | i love the kenyan one |
| 19:45.57 | alestane | Shirik|AFK: A common misconception, but even Linus comments on how that's not actually what she asks. |
| 19:46.12 | Devil_Doc | Linus who? |
| 19:46.14 | Shirik|AFK | Linus comments on a lot of things I don't care to hear from him |
| 19:46.25 | Shirik|AFK | in fact, pretty much everything he says I don't care to hear |
| 19:47.07 | Shirik|AFK | however, I am willing to believe you, I just think most of the world believes what I thought was true (again, incorrectly) |
| 19:47.21 | alestane | And you're right in that regard so far as I know. |
| 19:47.32 | Shirik|AFK | it's a pretty easy mistake to make if you haven't bothered to look it up |
| 19:47.50 | alestane | Also, just to be clear, I mean Linus van Pelt, the Peanuts character, not, say, Linus Torvalds the programmer. |
| 19:47.54 | Shirik|AFK | oh |
| 19:47.58 | Shirik|AFK | ok then |
| 19:48.05 | Devil_Doc | That's what I suspected. |
| 19:48.06 | Shirik|AFK | he's cool |
| 19:48.14 | Shirik|AFK | anyway, change of subject |
| 19:48.17 | Shirik|AFK | let's talk about dictionaries |
| 19:48.22 | Shirik|AFK | I would like to start a revolution |
| 19:48.29 | Shirik|AFK | dictionaries should no longer say "archaic" |
| 19:48.33 | Shirik|AFK | instead they should say "deprecated" |
| 19:48.35 | Cide | http://cide.ws/error.html -- why django is awesome |
| 19:48.35 | Devil_Doc | My dictionary is quite large. |
| 19:48.41 | Shirik|AFK | e.g., http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wherefore |
| 19:48.52 | alestane | Shirik|AFK: How about "Obsolete"? |
| 19:48.53 | Shirik|AFK | should say 1. (deprecated) Why, for what reason, because of what. |
| 19:49.04 | Shirik|AFK | Obsolete should become "Superceded" |
| 19:49.15 | foxlit | Shirik: The English language. Step away from it and no one gets hurt. |
| 19:49.17 | Shirik|AFK | or maybe |
| 19:49.20 | Shirik|AFK | abstract! |
| 19:49.20 | Shirik|AFK | Yes! |
| 19:49.28 | Shirik|AFK | We could say its replacement was inherited from the obsolete word |
| 19:49.33 | Shirik|AFK | so the obsolete word is abstract |
| 19:49.40 | Cide | TopTop18: I have no idea what you're doing |
| 19:49.44 | Cide | but you're not doing it right |
| 19:49.55 | Cruciformer | "deprecated" adds less information than "archaic" does. "archaic" implies deprecated whereas the reverse is not true. "archaic" implies usage a very long time ago. "deprecated" could mean it was last in common use 20 years ago. |
| 19:49.59 | Shirik|AFK | you can't instantiate the obsolete word anymore, however you can use its replacement as if you had one |
| 19:50.00 | alestane | Except that "archaic" is a perfectly reasonable word for what they mean. |
| 19:50.17 | Shirik|AFK | but you don't use archaic in programming terminology |
| 19:50.25 | Shirik|AFK | you never declare a method archaic |
| 19:50.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Dave2 (i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2) |
| 19:50.28 | Shirik|AFK | you declare it deprecated |
| 19:50.40 | Devil_Doc | I'm trying to use the BlinkyUI. I've followed the install directions, enabled all permissions on folders and files, have "run as admin" set where appropriate, and have read the comments thread associated with the UI and the FAQ. But I'm still having trouble. All the UI elements are mashed into the center of the screen. |
| 19:50.48 | foxlit | So your argument is that languages should be defined based on programming terminology |
| 19:50.50 | NightHawkTheSane | fun fact: written/spoken languages are not, actually, programming languages. |
| 19:50.52 | Shirik|AFK | yes |
| 19:50.57 | Cruciformer | you said you wanted dictionaries, the codification of spoken language (as the term generally means) to use deprecated. |
| 19:50.59 | foxlit | Right. Dismissed. |
| 19:51.00 | alestane | "Deprecated" also implies that some body or organization is recommending a word be discontinued, where "archaic" simply implies that it does not show up in actual contemporary usage. |
| 19:51.05 | foxlit | New subject: find me a book to read. |
| 19:51.14 | Shirik|AFK | foxlit: Wikipedia |
| 19:51.27 | foxlit | I'm not sure there are multiple copies of that. |
| 19:51.35 | NightHawkTheSane | i suppose you actually COULD declare a method archaic |
| 19:51.36 | foxlit | And I'm not sure reading it online would be... productive. |
| 19:51.38 | Devil_Doc | Guns, Germs, and Steel. By Jared Diamond. |
| 19:51.39 | Shirik|AFK | I heard someone published a book of wikipedia |
| 19:51.48 | Cide | foxlit: Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman |
| 19:51.52 | Shirik|AFK | not its entire contents, but a significant portion of the most popular portions |
| 19:52.00 | Shirik|AFK | er |
| 19:52.04 | Shirik|AFK | well, you get the idea |
| 19:52.40 | foxlit | ~Cide++ |
| 19:52.48 | Cide | have you read it? |
| 19:52.56 | Devil_Doc | foxlit: Guns, Germs, and Steel. By Jared Diamond. |
| 19:53.17 | foxlit | Cide: no, more that I've heard positive things about it. |
| 19:53.41 | Cide | it's the most interesting (I shouldn't say the best, since it's not the typical type of book) book I've read |
| 19:53.47 | Devil_Doc | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel |
| 19:53.47 | Cide | I'd recommend it to anyone |
| 19:53.56 | Cide | s/d r/d strongly r/ |
| 19:54.12 | Cide | Shirik|AFK: you should read it |
| 19:55.29 | Shirik|AFK | anyway foxlit if you're looking for a real answer |
| 19:55.37 | Shirik|AFK | I enjoyed PREY by Michael Crichton |
| 19:55.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 19:55.42 | nicoli_s | me too |
| 19:55.43 | Cide | good book |
| 19:55.53 | nicoli_s | that was one of his last wasnt it? |
| 19:55.57 | foxlit | Devil_Doc: while the premise is interesting, I'm quite satisfied with reading the synopsis there -- I'm sure examples could be interesting, but I'm not sure I want to heart them :) |
| 19:56.01 | Cide | NEXT is also not bad |
| 19:56.05 | foxlit | -t |
| 19:56.12 | Shirik|AFK | http://www.amazon.com/Prey-Michael-Crichton/dp/0066214122 |
| 19:56.17 | Cide | but read the feynman book if you can get ahold of it imo |
| 19:56.41 | Shirik|AFK | anyway I have to get back to work |
| 19:56.42 | Shirik|AFK | baibai |
| 19:57.01 | Devil_Doc | mai waifu |
| 19:57.12 | TopTop18 | Cide, create character, click a class(ranger i tried) Then quickly click another class a few times quick(Heretic I tried) |
| 19:57.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:57.22 | nicoli_s | are you making a game Cide? |
| 19:57.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@129.7.93.51) |
| 19:57.29 | Cide | nicoli_s: yes |
| 19:57.30 | Lunessa | STATION |
| 19:57.43 | nicoli_s | web based? |
| 19:57.53 | Cide | yes |
| 19:59.05 | Lunessa | Power out for 3+ hours... so much fun in IT |
| 19:59.57 | Lopeppeppy | Oh ugh... brownout from how hot it is down there? |
| 20:00.05 | nicoli_s | can i see Cide? |
| 20:00.11 | Cide | http://dev.ctmud.net |
| 20:00.27 | Cide | TopTop18: that's like submitting a form multiple times (bad) |
| 20:00.35 | Cide | thanks for finding a bug |
| 20:00.35 | Kraps | cool, music of azeroths taverns |
| 20:00.55 | TopTop18 | Cide, np, Love breaking stuff |
| 20:01.09 | Cide | now to get komodo to support bzr |
| 20:01.14 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: Don't know the cause. But they kept us stewing in the building for 3 hours because they didn't want to close the campus. |
| 20:01.44 | Lopeppeppy | I'm gonna guess weather-related, Lunessa. I'm so sorry. *hug* |
| 20:02.10 | Lunessa | Well, all is back up now. And the computer room can come off emergency power. So -- back to work. :) |
| 20:02.26 | *** join/#wowuidev dave` (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:03.33 | foxlit | Cide: so is T still around? |
| 20:03.38 | Cide | yes |
| 20:05.51 | *** part/#wowuidev Shirik (i=d1d8bcf7@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 20:05.52 | Adys | mv: try to overwrite `cached_screenshots/item_47892.jpg', overriding mode 0644 (rw-r--r--)? |
| 20:05.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (i=d1d8bcf7@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 20:05.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 20:05.57 | Adys | is there an option in mv |
| 20:06.06 | Adys | to avoid that? and force it |
| 20:06.25 | durcyn | -f |
| 20:06.28 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI0Zry_R4RQ |
| 20:06.50 | durcyn | assuming it's gnu coreutils |
| 20:07.08 | durcyn | actually it should work in any posix mv, it's -v that bsd variants lack |
| 20:07.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (n=Cralor`@c-98-216-219-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:07.50 | Devil_Doc | Anyone one know a place to get UI help other than the website or here? |
| 20:08.12 | ScytheBlade1 | UI & Macro forums? |
| 20:08.14 | Lopeppeppy | ~wowprogramming |
| 20:08.15 | purl | World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons ~ http://tinyurl.com/5hnxob ~ a book written by Cladhaire, Cogwheel and Kaelten, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 20:09.00 | foxlit | Devil_Doc: try the comment section for whatever UI you're having problems with. |
| 20:09.05 | foxlit | ^s |
| 20:09.16 | Devil_Doc | I did, 6 hours ago |
| 20:09.16 | Lopeppeppy | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info13380-BlinkyUI1680x1050.html#comments |
| 20:09.29 | Lopeppeppy | People have Real Lives (tm), the author could be at work or asleep. |
| 20:09.59 | foxlit | Some of us are also Lazy(tm), which means you might wait a week or so for a reply. |
| 20:10.11 | Cralor` | If I wanted to send a chat message to the last person I recieved a message from, would I do SendChatMessage("message", "WHISPER") |
| 20:10.18 | Devil_Doc | I was hoping that people other than the author would be knowledgeable enough to offer some assitance. |
| 20:10.23 | foxlit | Cralor`: doubtful. |
| 20:10.31 | foxlit | You should probably store the name of that person. |
| 20:10.48 | Cralor` | Would GetChannelName do that? |
| 20:11.08 | foxlit | I don't see the connection there. |
| 20:11.23 | foxlit | Although.. the default UI must store it somehow. |
| 20:11.36 | foxlit | Look up what happens when you hit reply :) |
| 20:11.37 | Lopeppeppy | Devil_Doc, the problem with a compilation is that they're fussy things to install. You could have just about anything wrong with it, and only someone sitting at your computer can effectively troubleshoot. It was last updated last month, perhaps something has broken in the meantime? |
| 20:11.57 | foxlit | function ChatFrame_ReplyTell(chatFrame) ... local lastTell = ChatEdit_GetLastTellTarget(); |
| 20:12.01 | alestane | The default UI keeps track in the chat frame of the people you've sent whispers to or received them from. |
| 20:12.05 | foxlit | You can get the name from ChatEdit_GetLastTellTarget() |
| 20:12.22 | Cralor` | foxlit: thanks |
| 20:12.30 | foxlit | (beware: returns an empty string rather than nil if there isn't such a person) |
| 20:12.35 | Cralor` | ok |
| 20:13.03 | Devil_Doc | Lopepuppy, I'm pretty competent with a computer and at doing basic troubleshooting. |
| 20:13.24 | Lopeppeppy | This is not "computer troubleshooting", it's "addon troubleshooting", which is different. |
| 20:13.32 | Lopeppeppy | Similar, but different. |
| 20:13.47 | foxlit | And, honestly, I don't think anyone wants to touch other people's UI compilations with a 10-foot-pole. |
| 20:13.54 | Lopeppeppy | What foxlit said. |
| 20:14.18 | durcyn | UI compilations are the new mix tapes. |
| 20:14.24 | durcyn | that is to say, they invariably suck. |
| 20:14.40 | Lopeppeppy | the most common thing that one does wrong with a compilation is not follow the instructions for installing it... not renaming the folders properly, or not having write permissions to the drive, etc. |
| 20:14.52 | Devil_Doc | All I really wanted was the visual aspect of that compilation |
| 20:15.10 | Lopeppeppy | Try looking around for one that's easier to install then, if you're impatient for a response. |
| 20:15.30 | Devil_Doc | I followed the directions precisley and triple checked my efforts |
| 20:16.21 | Lopeppeppy | If it's not installing, either you're not following the directions, or the addons are too outdated to be installed properly, which is a common issue with compilations. |
| 20:16.27 | Lopeppeppy | Or it's not made for your resolution. |
| 20:16.35 | Lopeppeppy | Or the moon is in Saggitarius. |
| 20:16.36 | Devil_Doc | Check, check, check |
| 20:16.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-47-184.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:16.48 | Lunessa | And more than once some one published a compilation and left out a profile, or explanation for setting something... and people never figure it out. UI Compilations are nothing more than a collection of settings. Your Results Will Vary and That's Just Tough. |
| 20:17.06 | Lopeppeppy | Then no one can help you, if you're doing it right and it's coming out wrong. YRWV and TJT, as Lunessa says. |
| 20:17.37 | Devil_Doc | I figured that it came down to a missing profile |
| 20:17.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Nitra (n=Nitra@c-5963e255.233-4-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:18.59 | Devil_Doc | The comments section had some folks with a similar problem and the response was to load a particular profile. A profile that seemed to be absent from the compilation. Unless I am looking for it incorrectly. |
| 20:20.03 | foxlit | #1, #2, #3 in Science Fiction & Fantasy: Twilight, Twilight, Twilight. |
| 20:20.12 | Cide | ok, so I have a directory structure |
| 20:20.15 | Devil_Doc | Quick question, when renaming the server folder, does it have to be all one word? For instance "THE FORGOTTEN COAST" or "THEFORGOTTENCOAST"? |
| 20:20.24 | Cide | where every subdirectory contains a .svn folder |
| 20:20.38 | foxlit | two words |
| 20:20.40 | Cide | best way to copy this directory tree (with subdirectories) without the .svn folders? |
| 20:20.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Cide: find ./ -type d -exec rm -rf '{}' \; |
| 20:20.46 | ScytheBlade1 | =] |
| 20:20.50 | foxlit | er, multiple words. |
| 20:20.50 | ScytheBlade1 | err |
| 20:20.53 | Cide | yeah I think I'll skip that one |
| 20:20.56 | Devil_Doc | I've tried both ways and no improvement. |
| 20:20.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Cide: find ./ -type d -name .svn -exec rm -rf '{}' \; |
| 20:21.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Jiminizer (n=jiminize@jiminizer.plus.com) |
| 20:21.07 | Devil_Doc | Foxlit, thanks. |
| 20:21.09 | foxlit | Mine are also proper-capsed, though that shouldn't matter on most operating systems. |
| 20:21.13 | Cide | ScytheBlade1: can I trust that one? :P |
| 20:21.37 | foxlit | It's got "rm" "-fr" and "/" What more could you possibly want?! |
| 20:21.43 | ScytheBlade1 | That one will nuke all of your .svn folders |
| 20:21.43 | Devil_Doc | foxlit, the install instruction stated the server name should be caps. |
| 20:22.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Copy it, then nuke in the new location? |
| 20:22.16 | Cide | oh, nvm |
| 20:22.20 | Cide | it's only a checkout |
| 20:22.23 | Cide | not a working copy |
| 20:22.25 | Cide | no .svn folders! |
| 20:22.27 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 20:22.48 | Cide | it appeared to work though, thanks ScytheBlade1 :) |
| 20:22.58 | Cide | (lots of file not found errors) |
| 20:23.13 | ScytheBlade1 | hm, that shouldn't happen |
| 20:23.37 | Cide | that's fine |
| 20:24.11 | MuNk | where would i find the different tyeps of buttons eg. ItemButtonTemplate, UIPanelCloseButton etc.. |
| 20:24.35 | ScytheBlade1 | That's one of the things that I REALLY hate about SVN - the hidden folder spam |
| 20:24.38 | Aelobin | rofl i can solo galv on my 69 dk >_< |
| 20:24.59 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 20:25.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:26.20 | Cide | ScytheBlade1: yep |
| 20:26.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Breaking tab completion, stupid things |
| 20:29.59 | durcyn | Cide: rsync -av --exclude=.svn |
| 20:30.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-24-126-106-246.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 20:30.29 | Cide | the problem is solved (there weren't any .svn folders in that checkout), but thanks :) |
| 20:30.42 | durcyn | well, screw you too :( |
| 20:30.45 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 20:31.07 | *** join/#wowuidev kamdis (i=405f8902@gateway/web/freenode/x-88c2818e667ca6ff) |
| 20:32.07 | Kraps | a guy just compared the emblem changes to someone complaining that they deserve to play as well as tiger woods. people are stupid |
| 20:32.31 | Aelobin | tiger woods plays wow? |
| 20:33.12 | Kraps | golf? |
| 20:33.53 | Lunessa | emblem changes are good. Just because my grandfather had to chop wood to cook his dinner doesn't mean I shouldn't get to use an eelectric stove. |
| 20:34.02 | Devil_Doc | I've got it mostly hammered out. |
| 20:34.08 | Devil_Doc | With the UI |
| 20:34.35 | Kraps | "But you can buy the same clubs that Tiger uses. You may never play in a major tournament, but you still have access to the same gear he uses. And I'm pretty sure Tiger doesn't care that you have the same clubs as him either. " |
| 20:34.38 | Kraps | this |
| 20:35.14 | NightHawkTheSane | see, thats just a lie. tiger goes around hunting down people with the same gear as him, and KILLS THEM. |
| 20:35.18 | NightHawkTheSane | nods |
| 20:35.39 | Kraps | lulz |
| 20:36.31 | Kraps | Lament of the Highborne is teh shit |
| 20:36.37 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXhx40DcU6Y |
| 20:37.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (n=Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 20:37.45 | Shadowed | since it only came out a few hours ago guessing people haven't seen it yet, but build 10083: http://github.com/Shadowed/wow-ui-source/commit/ef5bb8e43e8bee03322bee6719dc7688fc2ffebc |
| 20:38.30 | nicoli_s | wow, thats alot of changes for a minor patch |
| 20:38.46 | Shadowed | it's nothing really that big |
| 20:39.17 | Shadowed | or not, new FontString attribute wordwrap |
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| 20:42.05 | Shadowed | looks like they redid the POI stuff again too |
| 20:42.32 | alestane | Lunessa: An insane amount of absurdity has been perpetrated in the name of "Why should anyone else get to skip the hardship I went through?" |
| 20:43.08 | Lunessa | alestane: I know. It's stupid. |
| 20:51.18 | Torhal | Seerah|away: You help me strangulate daxdax? |
| 21:01.41 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 21:11.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@89.243.246.190) |
| 21:14.35 | alestane | I still have not been able to stamp out /clearfocus [target=focus,noexists]. Expansion 6 will come out and people will still be using it in macros and passing it around message boards. |
| 21:15.34 | foxlit | why are you stamping that out? :) |
| 21:15.46 | Lunessa | I know, right? /clearfocus or /focus will do the trick |
| 21:16.01 | alestane | A futile attempt to raise the overall IQ level of macro users? |
| 21:16.12 | foxlit | But what's the actual issue? |
| 21:16.18 | Arrowmaster | it does nothing? |
| 21:16.25 | alestane | Lunessa: A *blank line* will have the same effect. |
| 21:16.26 | foxlit | The intent, as far as I can determine it, is to wipe your focus unit if your focus isn't in range. |
| 21:17.11 | Arrowmaster | foxlit: that happens anyway |
| 21:17.11 | foxlit | (client visibility range) |
| 21:17.11 | alestane | Clear your focus, but only if you don't have a focus? |
| 21:17.11 | foxlit | A long, long time ago, I recall it reappearing if the unit reappeared. |
| 21:17.11 | Lunessa | Yeah, bad construct is bad, m'kay? |
| 21:17.21 | Arrowmaster | foxlit: it did, when focus was first added, but they changed it |
| 21:17.45 | Lunessa | foxlit: but it doesn't do that now. Hell, some fights (Sarth+) they clear your focus when the damned thing moves. |
| 21:18.09 | foxlit | Ah. That explains it. |
| 21:20.40 | Arrowmaster | Shadowed: whoever the new person incharge of the UI is, theyre deffinently a long time C programmer |
| 21:20.56 | Shadowed | Arrowmaster: what makes you say that |
| 21:21.00 | alestane | Most of them are also C/C++ programmers. Why? |
| 21:21.21 | Shadowed | I didn't see anything that would make you conclude that |
| 21:21.38 | Shadowed | short of the new equipment code in paperdoll? |
| 21:21.48 | alestane | Wait, I should check...which game are you talking about? |
| 21:21.57 | Arrowmaster | new code added in the ptr had 'if(...) then', everywhere else its always 'if ( ... ) then', also theres changes that are nothing but adding a trailing ; |
| 21:22.03 | Shadowed | I linked the build 10083 diff an hour ago, so I assume he means wow |
| 21:22.05 | NightHawkTheSane | i think he means some semicolons and parens |
| 21:22.32 | Shadowed | oh that |
| 21:22.54 | Shadowed | pretty sure a lot of Blizzard code even old stuff was 'if ( ... ) then' too |
| 21:24.01 | alestane | They have a standing convention that if clauses have parentheses and spaces around the conditional, and that all statements end with semi-colons; and yes, I think it stems from someone who's used to C feeling more at home with it that way. |
| 21:24.43 | alestane | Iriel and I spent a chunk of time making sure that everything we wrote for the secure stuff followed that convention. |
| 21:25.16 | Arrowmaster | the readablity sucks with this gear manger stuff, with all these _* vars |
| 21:25.28 | foxlit | I'm surprised you didn't spend a chunk of time writing an auto-formatting script, tbh. |
| 21:25.49 | Shadowed | I don't get the point in the _* vars, if I remember right it's a way of showing a variable is private in some languages? |
| 21:25.56 | Shadowed | but thats usually obvious in the WoW stuff |
| 21:26.02 | Arrowmaster | + if (foundIndex == nil) then |
| 21:26.04 | Arrowmaster | noob |
| 21:26.18 | alestane | It's just sort of a convention, I think, that the variable is for "internal use only". |
| 21:26.20 | Shadowed | you should go apply for the lua implementer job Arrowmaster :p |
| 21:26.28 | Shadowed | alestane internal use only? |
| 21:26.32 | Arrowmaster | Shadowed: i would if i could afford to move to cali |
| 21:26.34 | Shadowed | isn't all the local variables in the Blizzard stuff internal only thought |
| 21:26.53 | alestane | That is, it's part of an impementation, and not part of the interface for the code in question. |
| 21:27.08 | Torhal | Shadowed: The leading underscore denotes that this function should not be used on its own - it's a component in a system |
| 21:27.20 | Shadowed | got it |
| 21:27.32 | Shadowed | although it's variables not functions in this case :< |
| 21:29.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 21:30.08 | Arrowmaster | reguarding the changes in FrameXML/VideoOptionsPanels.lua, what the hell is it with wow and floating point errors, floating point errors rarely happen anymore but its like in wow its rare if they dont happen |
| 21:31.52 | foxlit | I thought "0.1" was a reasonably problematic thing for floats |
| 21:32.07 | Thunder_Child | i hate writing cover letters |
| 21:32.11 | Thunder_Child | hate hate hate |
| 21:32.31 | Cide | it has a decently sized error, yes, foxlit |
| 21:32.59 | Arrowmaster | ive never had issues with floats in lua, just when WoW interacts with the floats |
| 21:33.14 | Arrowmaster | lua> 1/10 |
| 21:33.14 | foxlit | Lua's floats are doubles. |
| 21:33.17 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: 0.1 |
| 21:33.22 | foxlit | Who knows what wow uses for slider storage |
| 21:33.56 | Arrowmaster | they should use doubles too imho then they could forget about all this extra code for fixing floating point errors |
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| 21:37.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@92.28.0.254) |
| 21:37.47 | Duman | hmm |
| 21:38.39 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, your o has never been h |
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| 21:45.35 | Nafe | foxlit: focus targets used to not wipe if your focus went out of range? *sigh* why can't we have an option for that |
| 21:45.53 | alestane | Later folks, in-laws are here. |
| 21:52.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:56.57 | Shirik | :( |
| 21:56.59 | Shirik | I feel stupid |
| 21:57.16 | Thunder_Child | well feeling != fact |
| 21:57.19 | Shirik | I've been debugging this problem for 30 minutes, saying to myself "wtf why can't I get this mutex, it's taking forever" |
| 21:57.36 | Shirik | finally realized it's because it's working exactly as it's supposed to :/ |
| 21:58.05 | nicoli_s | fun bugs :) |
| 21:59.26 | Kraps | whats with the emphases on Rhonins "fiery red hair"? |
| 21:59.46 | foxlit | he's secretly on fire. |
| 22:00.22 | Shirik | he's hawt |
| 22:01.24 | foxlit | Hm. |
| 22:01.30 | foxlit | "Be Prepared" in German. |
| 22:01.37 | Kraps | looks like Knakk (sp) kept writing about his hair in every other line |
| 22:01.38 | batbot | Kraps, Knack. |
| 22:01.42 | foxlit | It's amusing! |
| 22:01.53 | Kraps | The fiery haired mage came forth into the Hall, his flaming tassels blowing in the breeze. |
| 22:01.55 | Kraps | "You know not what you speak of," said the mage, his fiery hair still blowing, his expression of extreme dislike for those in the room evident. |
| 22:01.57 | Kraps | He turned to leave, the fiery locks blowing backwards as he turned. |
| 22:01.58 | Kraps | An army of Raptors followed in his wake. |
| 22:03.05 | Kraps | foxlit: Be Prepared o_o |
| 22:03.33 | Kraps | realiez (sp) |
| 22:03.34 | batbot | Kraps, realize. |
| 22:03.47 | Kraps | blahhh (sp) |
| 22:03.47 | batbot | Kraps, nothing found. |
| 22:03.52 | Kraps | ha! |
| 22:04.02 | foxlit | for sensational news, Kraps. |
| 22:04.27 | Kraps | well? |
| 22:04.54 | foxlit | A shining new era? |
| 22:05.14 | Kraps | wow is dead :( |
| 22:05.24 | foxlit | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKOJ5bEKPLY << there |
| 22:06.02 | Kraps | heh |
| 22:07.16 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IuLjWoEtr8&feature=related Hakuna Matata (German) |
| 22:09.14 | foxlit | Kraps: http://www.thefump.com/fumps/ts128_CthulhuFthagn_lo.mp3 tbh |
| 22:09.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-39-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:10.44 | Shirik | so here's an awesome race condition |
| 22:11.09 | Shirik | Mutex m, condition variable c releases m on wait |
| 22:11.31 | Kraps | i dont know anything about cthulhu but that was funny |
| 22:11.38 | Shirik | Thread 1: Take m, wait on condition c (release m) |
| 22:11.48 | Shirik | thread 2: Take m: post condition c |
| 22:12.02 | Shirik | thread 2: wait on condition c |
| 22:12.09 | Shirik | Thread 2 can pick up its own post |
| 22:12.14 | Arrowmaster | foxlit: in an amazing feat (amazing since i dont know C but did it in C since i couldnt think of any other languages with both a float and double type) i have verified that blizzard does infact store numbers as 32bit floats instead of 64bit doubles causing all the rounding problems, 0.4 as a float turns into the exact same number listed in the diff of FrameXML/VideoOptionsPanels.lua |
| 22:12.18 | Shirik | despite the fact that it wasn't waiting for it at the time it was posted |
| 22:13.02 | foxlit | "So I decided to blame..." "Whose fault was it?" "The whole human race!" "Yeah, what were they doing hanging around with an acidic mass of flesh-devouring polyps anyway?" |
| 22:13.03 | Shirik | bad Arrowmaster |
| 22:13.05 | Shirik | C++ > C |
| 22:13.12 | Shirik | well, technically ++C > C, C++ == C |
| 22:13.15 | Shirik | but that's not the point |
| 22:13.17 | Shirik | C++ > C |
| 22:13.38 | Thunder_Child | i thought C++ was just OOP C...no? |
| 22:13.48 | foxlit | I don't see how you can say that without a precondition on the value of C |
| 22:13.54 | foxlit | It could be that ++C < C |
| 22:14.01 | Shirik | that's the flawed use of C++, Thunder_Child |
| 22:14.11 | Shirik | and yes, foxlit, I'm assuming the imaginary infinitely sized integer |
| 22:14.39 | Shirik | the standard does not specify the length of an int |
| 22:14.43 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, so you are saing C++ fails @ OOP? |
| 22:14.45 | Shirik | so it could theoretically be of infinite size |
| 22:14.51 | Shirik | no, I'm saying the users of C++ fail at C++ |
| 22:14.57 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: that mp3 is -awesome- |
| 22:15.02 | Shirik | that they use C++ as C, and it shouldn't be used as C |
| 22:15.08 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: :) |
| 22:15.17 | foxlit | They have a podcast. |
| 22:16.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-207-20.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 22:16.44 | drfuzzykins | C++ sets itself up for fail |
| 22:16.54 | drfuzzykins | so it's to be expected |
| 22:16.57 | Shirik | foxlit: never responded to my justification of ++C > C |
| 22:16.59 | Shirik | :( |
| 22:17.34 | foxlit | was it worth remarking on? |
| 22:18.39 | foxlit | Of course, the crazy language probably allows you to overload ++ to execute -- instead. |
| 22:18.59 | drfuzzykins | btw, I'm also pretty sure ++C == C and C++ < C (assuming the overloaded operators are standard) |
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| 22:26.39 | Kraps | Shield Slam: The benefit from additional block value this ability gains is now subject to diminishing returns. Diminishing returns occur once block value exceeds 30 times the player's level and caps the maximum damage benefit from shield block value at 34.5 times the player's level. |
| 22:26.49 | Kraps | math makes my head hurt |
| 22:27.19 | Kraps | so now theres a cap |
| 22:27.32 | Arrowmaster | theres not much math there since you only have 2 points |
| 22:27.51 | Arrowmaster | lua> 80*30, 80*34.5 |
| 22:27.51 | lua_bot | Arrowmaster: 2400, 2760 |
| 22:27.59 | NightHawkTheSane | thats a lot of BV |
| 22:28.23 | NightHawkTheSane | although, i guess since they're doubling it, not so much |
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| 22:28.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:29.18 | NightHawkTheSane | interesting, i wonder why they capped it instead of just reducing the scaling |
| 22:30.02 | foxlit | that'd nerf it |
| 22:30.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (n=Jamash@c-98-234-176-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:30.48 | Kraps | no more 100% block/miss/dodge/parry sets |
| 22:31.08 | Kraps | ciderhelm made one once |
| 22:31.33 | Jamash | I'm learning Java |
| 22:31.38 | foxlit | That doesn't follow from your quote |
| 22:31.41 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: its kind of a nerf as is. i'm skeptical of how scalable that is, i could be wrong, though |
| 22:32.11 | foxlit | Doesn't affect you if you have under 2400 BV |
| 22:33.03 | foxlit | And besides, it's just on shield slam? Weird stuff. Perhaps they want to reduce damage output while wearing defensive gear. |
| 22:33.30 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, thats clearly the intention |
| 22:33.38 | NightHawkTheSane | which also seems odd |
| 22:33.57 | NightHawkTheSane | (note, the pally SotR go the same treatment) |
| 22:34.07 | Jamash | pray for my soul |
| 22:34.35 | foxlit | s/Jamash/Javash/? |
| 22:34.56 | Shirik | drfuzzykins: You're wrong, btw |
| 22:35.03 | Jamash | lulz |
| 22:35.04 | Kraps | "Perhaps they want to reduce damage output while wearing defensive gear." buy /why/ ? warrior tank dps sucks as it is |
| 22:35.04 | NightHawkTheSane | fucking finally, "Wind Shock: Has been renamed Wind Shear and no longer shares a cooldown with Flame, Frost or Earth Shock." |
| 22:35.07 | Shirik | ++C can never be == C |
| 22:35.18 | drfuzzykins | ++C would evaluate prior to the == |
| 22:35.20 | Shirik | and C++ can only be < C in very rare situations |
| 22:35.29 | drfuzzykins | so comparing ++C == C would be true |
| 22:35.30 | Shirik | lua> 1/2^32 |
| 22:35.31 | lua_bot | Shirik: 2.3283064365387e-10 |
| 22:35.34 | drfuzzykins | because C would then be equal to ++C |
| 22:35.39 | Shirik | specifically that rare |
| 22:35.41 | Shirik | on most systems |
| 22:36.06 | drfuzzykins | C.operator ==(C.operator++(), C) that is |
| 22:36.08 | Shirik | goes to recheck the bible |
| 22:36.10 | drfuzzykins | the == happens second |
| 22:36.25 | Shirik | the == is not the part that's relevant |
| 22:36.32 | Shirik | == does not evaluate its arguments, it evaluates the comparison |
| 22:36.51 | drfuzzykins | right, and I'm assuming the ++C happens prior to the comparison |
| 22:37.05 | drfuzzykins | so at that point you're comparing the new value of C after increment to...the value of C |
| 22:37.09 | drfuzzykins | so it would be equal |
| 22:37.23 | VonhintenHOME` | correct |
| 22:37.33 | VonhintenHOME` | assuming it overloaded both operators |
| 22:38.29 | Shirik | oh wow |
| 22:38.32 | Shirik | It's actually undefined |
| 22:38.43 | VonhintenHOME` | shouldn't be |
| 22:38.48 | Shirik | "The order of evaluation of subexpressions within an expression is undefined. In particular, you cannot assume that the expression is evaluated left to right." |
| 22:38.55 | drfuzzykins | yeah, that doesn't surprise me |
| 22:38.59 | drfuzzykins | that's why I hate C++ |
| 22:39.01 | Shirik | Stroustroup, 6.2.2, p122 |
| 22:39.16 | Jamash | amen |
| 22:39.27 | drfuzzykins | logically, it should happen bottom up, like I described, but it probably doesn't -_- |
| 22:39.44 | Shirik | Reason: "Better code can be generated in the absence of restrictions on expression evaluation order. However, the absence of restrictions on evaluation order can lead to undefined results. For example: v[i] = i++" |
| 22:39.59 | Kraps | see ya |
| 22:40.15 | drfuzzykins | not that it really matters, because anyone with such a line of code should be shot |
| 22:40.19 | Shirik | agree |
| 22:40.48 | Dagmar | haha |
| 22:40.52 | Dagmar | But I LOVE code like that |
| 22:41.20 | Dagmar | I'd like a little landmine for anyone who isn't in tune with a language's eval order |
| 22:41.35 | drfuzzykins | well the problem is C++ doesn't have one :P |
| 22:41.46 | Dagmar | That makes it *magic* code |
| 22:41.53 | Shirik | I got the magic code |
| 22:42.38 | drfuzzykins | I tend to only use C++ if I have no other options anyway |
| 22:43.10 | VonhintenHOME` | I miss using C++, spending all my time in C# now |
| 22:43.21 | drfuzzykins | C# is one of the other options I'd much rather use :P |
| 22:45.07 | Shirik | C++ is a great language |
| 22:45.16 | Shirik | C#, not so much, but it beats many alternatives |
| 22:45.35 | drfuzzykins | C++ is a horrible mess of syntax and keywords |
| 22:46.05 | Shirik | that's because you don't understand it |
| 22:46.08 | Shirik | you need to be one with C++ |
| 22:46.16 | Shirik | you cannot use C++ |
| 22:46.21 | drfuzzykins | except I do, I used to use it exclusively prior to C# |
| 22:46.22 | Shirik | you must BE C++ |
| 22:46.24 | foxlit | you need to sacrifice a goat. |
| 22:46.28 | foxlit | End of story. |
| 22:46.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=EAndre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 22:46.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 22:46.39 | Shirik | agree, goats are helpful |
| 22:46.49 | Shirik | that must be interesting to join to |
| 22:46.55 | drfuzzykins | heh |
| 22:47.05 | foxlit | he's a clone, anyway. |
| 22:47.06 | VonhintenHOME` | (you must carry around Stroustrup, and read comp.std.c++) |
| 22:47.07 | drfuzzykins | C# is significantly cleaner |
| 22:47.25 | drfuzzykins | please ignore C# 3.0's var and anonymous classes |
| 22:47.34 | VonhintenHOME` | no way! |
| 22:47.58 | VonhintenHOME` | var has a great synergy with LINQ and anonymous types |
| 22:48.04 | drfuzzykins | also ignore anyone's use of lamdas in a block format, like (x, y) => { multiple lines } |
| 22:48.20 | VonhintenHOME` | boooo |
| 22:48.20 | drfuzzykins | yes Vonhinten, it does, except people use var EVERYWHERE now, like var x = new WebClient() |
| 22:48.30 | drfuzzykins | why var? you know it's a WebClient |
| 22:48.53 | VonhintenHOME` | Well, that's because people are using to including namespaces like the kitchen sink |
| 22:49.04 | VonhintenHOME` | because, they probably won't have any conflicts |
| 22:49.44 | VonhintenHOME` | but, if that were, var x = Blah.Blah.BleeBlahBoodyBlah.WebClient(); suddenly it makes a little more sense :) |
| 22:49.53 | drfuzzykins | pfft, you shouldn't have that problem anyway imo |
| 22:50.03 | drfuzzykins | something needs to be refactored in that case |
| 22:51.25 | Shirik | C#'s "var" is actually a brilliant idea |
| 22:51.30 | Shirik | ah, VonhintenHOME` already got there |
| 22:51.32 | Shirik | and C++ is adopting it |
| 22:51.40 | Shirik | C++'s "auto" will be capable of doing what C#'s var does |
| 22:51.47 | Shirik | You might NOT know what it is drfuzzykins |
| 22:51.48 | VonhintenHOME` | oh god |
| 22:52.14 | drfuzzykins | I might not know what what is? |
| 22:52.14 | VonhintenHOME` | stop evolving C++ pls, kthx |
| 22:52.31 | VonhintenHOME` | var x = new string(); now that's a stupid use for var |
| 22:52.46 | Shirik | var myVar = from foo in bar select new {a = foo.baz, b = foo.quux}; |
| 22:52.50 | drfuzzykins | all I'm saying is that var is not intended as the C# equivalent of VB .NET's Dim x As New String which is very concise |
| 22:52.55 | drfuzzykins | it's intended for LINQ |
| 22:52.57 | drfuzzykins | nothing else |
| 22:52.57 | Shirik | How do you plan to write that without var? |
| 22:53.07 | drfuzzykins | read what I said ^ |
| 22:53.09 | VonhintenHOME` | right, that's the synergy with anonymous types |
| 22:53.25 | Shirik | when I saw var first I thought it was stupid too |
| 22:53.29 | Shirik | then I used it two days ago |
| 22:53.34 | Shirik | and was like "damn that would have sucked" |
| 22:53.48 | drfuzzykins | I look through codebases and see var x = 4; |
| 22:53.52 | drfuzzykins | that's what I have a problem with |
| 22:53.54 | drfuzzykins | not LINQ |
| 22:54.01 | Shirik | well that's when you blame the coders, not the language |
| 22:54.10 | Shirik | I don't actually thing C++0x's auto will let you do that |
| 22:54.13 | Shirik | maybe |
| 22:54.18 | Shirik | I haven't researched it enough |
| 22:54.19 | VonhintenHOME` | yeah, I agree, I don't want to see C# turn into javascript |
| 22:54.27 | drfuzzykins | I did blame the coders :P |
| 22:54.41 | Shirik | I'm glad they're giving the auto keyword purpose though |
| 22:54.44 | Shirik | I've always felt bad for it |
| 22:54.47 | drfuzzykins | I cringe because in C# 4 they're adding the dynamic keyword |
| 22:54.48 | Shirik | it does nothing right now |
| 22:54.55 | VonhintenHOME` | wait, auto has been around a long time |
| 22:54.57 | drfuzzykins | dynamic x = 4; x = "Hello"; |
| 22:54.59 | VonhintenHOME` | auto int |
| 22:55.00 | Shirik | yes, but it's really useless |
| 22:55.21 | drfuzzykins | dynamic, like var, will be excellent for its intended use |
| 22:55.25 | Shirik | it's the default |
| 22:55.29 | Shirik | so nobody ever puts it there |
| 22:55.30 | drfuzzykins | but people will use it for god knows what |
| 22:55.54 | Shirik | I don't actually know of a context in which auto MUST be used right now |
| 22:57.15 | Shirik | lol |
| 22:57.38 | Shirik | from Stroustrup: "If you absolutely must be explicit about this, C++ provides the redundant keyword 'auto'" |
| 22:57.42 | Shirik | Seems he doesn't like it either :) |
| 22:58.04 | drfuzzykins | C++ doesn't do things because they're useful or good, silly |
| 22:58.15 | VonhintenHOME` | yeah, it's pointless anymore... |
| 22:58.23 | Shirik | I'm not sure whether I like or hate nullptr |
| 22:58.30 | Shirik | I've always hated that 0 has special meaning in C++ |
| 22:58.39 | Shirik | but I also think it's going to break things |
| 22:58.40 | cbreak | it has a special meaning? |
| 22:58.42 | VonhintenHOME` | I think the only reason to use it would be to be explicit in a case where you have a bunch of variables and you want to say something like: |
| 22:58.46 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:58.51 | drfuzzykins | It depends on what mood I'm in |
| 22:58.52 | Shirik | char* foo = 0; // legal |
| 22:58.56 | VonhintenHOME` | register int a; register int b; auto int c; |
| 22:58.57 | Shirik | char* foo = 1; // illegal |
| 22:59.10 | cbreak | c style casts ftw :) |
| 22:59.25 | drfuzzykins | if I'm doing scripting, null being false and 0 is really intuitive. If I'm writing some real code though, I prefer for null to have its own separate unambiguous meaning |
| 22:59.26 | Shirik | point is, 0 is the only integer value that does not require a cast to a pointer |
| 22:59.40 | Shirik | explicit cast* |
| 22:59.43 | cbreak | it's also implicitly a pointer value |
| 23:00.09 | VonhintenHOME` | Well, NULL used to be a (void*)0 |
| 23:00.24 | Shirik | in C |
| 23:00.26 | VonhintenHOME` | right |
| 23:00.34 | Shirik | not in C++ :) because that would also be illegal |
| 23:00.34 | foxlit | Hm, I wonder if RSS comes with a good mechanic for "give me older entries" |
| 23:00.45 | Shirik | since casting from a void* to anything requires a specific cast |
| 23:01.03 | Shirik | should be a reinterpret_cast, though everyone does c-style |
| 23:01.04 | drfuzzykins | foxlit: query string or request parameters if the RSS is served over HTTP |
| 23:01.14 | foxlit | But that's not automated |
| 23:01.18 | VonhintenHOME` | they're functionally equivalent |
| 23:01.23 | Shirik | in that case |
| 23:01.27 | ScytheBlade1 | foxlit: no. they are more or less static files. |
| 23:01.38 | Shirik | C-style casts are dangerous and shouldn't be used |
| 23:01.50 | Shirik | you should always tell the compiler exactly what you mean |
| 23:01.50 | foxlit | I'm thinking more along the lines of "if you, the subscribing agent, want to see older entries than what you're seeing now, you can find them |
| 23:01.54 | foxlit | (here)" |
| 23:02.01 | cbreak | the only danger is that they are less obvious/explicit than C++ style |
| 23:02.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh. No, I don't believe so |
| 23:02.20 | cbreak | (additional danger to casts inherent danger) |
| 23:02.20 | VonhintenHOME` | They're not dangerous in terms of compiled result, they're dangerous in terms of developer understanding of intent |
| 23:02.20 | Shirik | cbreak: They are prone to incorrect use |
| 23:02.22 | ScytheBlade1 | The RSS specs could tell you, though you'd also have to check the atom specs |
| 23:02.30 | drfuzzykins | foxlit: rss is extensible, so... |
| 23:02.43 | VonhintenHOME` | reinterpret_cast tells people "I meant to do this, I didn't just fuck up a dynamic_cast" |
| 23:02.54 | Shirik | or a static_cast |
| 23:03.00 | foxlit | drfuzzykins: If I was writing an application, I wouldn't have this problem in the first place :) |
| 23:03.08 | VonhintenHOME` | right |
| 23:03.10 | Shirik | here's the problem |
| 23:03.16 | Shirik | a C-style cast is a static cast, sometimes |
| 23:03.20 | Shirik | and a reinterpret cast other times |
| 23:03.25 | Shirik | and sometimes it can even be a dynamic cast |
| 23:03.31 | drfuzzykins | C++ is fun. |
| 23:03.31 | Shirik | oh don't forget const cast wrapped in there too |
| 23:03.44 | Shirik | it does too much |
| 23:03.52 | foxlit | It's more that I want to serve up a relatively small file, but want to ensure that subscribing agents don't miss individual messages. |
| 23:04.02 | NightHawkTheSane | haha... http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/07/10/this-totally-did-not-save-the-media |
| 23:04.05 | foxlit | So the solution would be for them to request older entries until they see one they've seen previously. |
| 23:04.10 | Shirik | and it gets better! |
| 23:04.14 | Shirik | Sometimes it's none of the above! |
| 23:04.19 | Shirik | Sometimes it's an overriden cast operator! |
| 23:04.21 | drfuzzykins | foxlit: is it necessary to use RSS? perhaps another method? |
| 23:04.43 | foxlit | RSS seemed convenient. |
| 23:05.14 | VonhintenHOME` | as much as I'd like to keep talking languages, I gotta hit the shower and get some chicken tikka masala in my cake hole |
| 23:05.33 | drfuzzykins | in C# it's only ever two kinds of casts: the basic type casts, or the static method calling kind. |
| 23:06.19 | drfuzzykins | well I suppose there's boxing but that's transparent |
| 23:08.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125-239-23-202.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:08.50 | Shirik | everything's a reference in C#, too |
| 23:08.53 | Shirik | they get off a little easier |
| 23:09.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 23:09.15 | drfuzzykins | value types are not references |
| 23:09.27 | drfuzzykins | ints, etc. |
| 23:10.32 | drfuzzykins | those are simply values on the stack |
| 23:12.29 | drfuzzykins | any struct actually, to be exact |
| 23:12.39 | Shirik | yeah |
| 23:12.42 | Shirik | but none of the classes |
| 23:12.52 | Shirik | they're all references |
| 23:13.09 | Shirik | unless you start talking about unsafe code |
| 23:13.15 | Shirik | then you just get into a huge mess |
| 23:13.53 | Shirik | I'm gonna go home |
| 23:13.59 | Shirik | not getting anything done here, and I'm at a good spot to stop |
| 23:14.03 | drfuzzykins | of course they're all references, and unsafe code should be avoided at all costs because it is in fact a mess :P |
| 23:14.52 | drfuzzykins | there's not even a reason to really use it at the application level, 99.9% of the time |
| 23:15.16 | Shirik | I had a reason to the other day |
| 23:15.23 | Shirik | then I quickly decided I'm not going to bother |
| 23:15.37 | Shirik | it was epic though |
| 23:15.41 | drfuzzykins | what was it? |
| 23:15.44 | Shirik | anyway pz, brb |
| 23:15.45 | Shirik | Will tell you when I get home |
| 23:15.51 | drfuzzykins | alright |
| 23:21.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 23:31.27 | bleeter | jnwhiteh: btw, yes.. real seriously bad. you realise you'll never be able to enter Australia? |
| 23:32.49 | Thunder_Child | anyone know a word that means "to make inaccessible"? |
| 23:32.55 | Corrodias | i hope i never have to enter Austrlia |
| 23:33.16 | Corrodias | or spell it right |
| 23:33.28 | Thunder_Child | my cousin is going to do 6mo - 1yr there for school, maybe i will go visit while she is there |
| 23:34.01 | drfuzzykins | Thunder_Child: lock? |
| 23:34.04 | drfuzzykins | :P |
| 23:34.16 | Thunder_Child | well that doesnt actually mean that |
| 23:34.24 | Dagmar | Fourteen-hour plane ride |
| 23:34.26 | Dagmar | You have fun with that |
| 23:34.32 | drfuzzykins | what's the context you need it in? |
| 23:34.33 | Thunder_Child | i like plane rides |
| 23:34.46 | Dagmar | I would need hard drugs. |
| 23:34.54 | Shirik|AFK | anyway drfuzzykins |
| 23:34.57 | Shirik|AFK | it was epic |
| 23:35.03 | Thunder_Child | i am fairly sure there is a word for that regardless of context |
| 23:35.16 | Dagmar | embargo |
| 23:35.27 | Thunder_Child | that also has a specific meaning |
| 23:35.31 | Shirik | I needed a lambda function to update something that it didn't have access to |
| 23:35.40 | Shirik | and it's not allowed to modify a ref parameter in its enclosing function |
| 23:35.55 | Shirik | so I gave the lambda function the address of what I wanted to update |
| 23:36.10 | Shirik | and bam |
| 23:36.12 | Shirik | beautioful |
| 23:36.18 | drfuzzykins | that's your opinion x.x |
| 23:36.27 | Shirik | all I had to do was ensure that the object never moves |
| 23:36.33 | Shirik | which was fairly easy with stackalloc |
| 23:36.52 | Shirik | problem was it was something I wouldn't know about until later |
| 23:36.55 | Shirik | but I needed to reference it now |
| 23:37.07 | Shirik | it's kinda hard to explain |
| 23:37.09 | Shirik | but it was awesome |
| 23:37.27 | Shirik | I also abuse LINQ though, so you might disagree with my statements of awesome |
| 23:37.39 | drfuzzykins | abuse it how? |
| 23:38.02 | Shirik | some would argue "use it too much" |
| 23:38.07 | Shirik | oh I have a good example |
| 23:38.16 | Shirik | I can't access it from here though |
| 23:38.19 | drfuzzykins | I use it anywhere it makes my code more concise |
| 23:38.21 | Shirik | but it's like a 20-line-long query |
| 23:38.44 | Shirik | but if I didn't use LINQ it would have been about 200 lines with like 4 nested foreach statements and if statements all over the place |
| 23:38.54 | drfuzzykins | then it was probably a good use of LINQ :P |
| 23:39.03 | drfuzzykins | as long as it doesn't require unsafe code... |
| 23:39.03 | Shirik | Well, FxCop didn't like it |
| 23:39.11 | drfuzzykins | FxCop doesn't like a lot of things, like tabs |
| 23:39.11 | Shirik | it immediately went "wahhh too complex gtfo" |
| 23:39.17 | Shirik | Tabs are bad |
| 23:39.19 | Shirik | right Cide-? |
| 23:39.22 | ScytheBlade1 | ~ping |
| 23:39.23 | purl | ~pong |
| 23:39.30 | Cide- | yes |
| 23:39.47 | Shirik | anyway, my understanding is that FxCop reads the bytecode |
| 23:39.56 | drfuzzykins | oh damnit |
| 23:39.58 | Shirik | and as a result it just saw the five million "if" constructs that resulted |
| 23:40.00 | drfuzzykins | I'm thinking of StyleCop |
| 23:40.06 | drfuzzykins | not FxCop |
| 23:40.25 | Shirik | well regardless, tabs are bad |
| 23:40.35 | drfuzzykins | it's an opinion thing |
| 23:40.42 | Shirik | not really |
| 23:40.49 | drfuzzykins | yes it is :P |
| 23:40.55 | Shirik | nope |
| 23:40.59 | Shirik | tabs break things, spaces don't |
| 23:41.02 | Shirik | therefore spaces are better |
| 23:41.13 | drfuzzykins | I use tabs for indenting my C# code because Visual Studio and the other major .NET IDEs allow you to set a tab size |
| 23:41.22 | Cide- | NOBODY CARES ABOUT TAB SIZE |
| 23:41.30 | Jamash | YES WE DO |
| 23:41.32 | Cide- | EDITORS CAN CONVERT SPACETABS TO VARIABLE LENGTHS AS WELL |
| 23:41.38 | Cide- | GET YOUR COATS AND DIAF |
| 23:41.42 | Shirik | pats Cide- |
| 23:41.48 | drfuzzykins | tell that to the guy I know who uses 1 space to indent his code |
| 23:41.54 | drfuzzykins | what editor knows that 1 space = tab |
| 23:42.04 | Cide- | one that you tell that it is |
| 23:42.06 | Shirik | at least it's consistent |
| 23:42.11 | drfuzzykins | so are tabs :P |
| 23:42.15 | Cide- | as long as it's consistent editors shouldn't have any issues |
| 23:42.16 | Shirik | negative |
| 23:42.23 | Thunder_Child | positive? |
| 23:42.26 | Shirik | tabs are not consistent |
| 23:42.36 | Shirik | I wish I had Cide's demonstration of why tabs are bad still |
| 23:42.37 | drfuzzykins | how? |
| 23:42.39 | Shirik | I threw it out |
| 23:43.11 | Shirik | fundamental misunderstanding: a tab is not a number of spaces |
| 23:43.22 | Shirik | it is a 'move to next tabstop' |
| 23:43.33 | drfuzzykins | okay, and? |
| 23:43.36 | Shirik | therein lies the problem |
| 23:43.37 | Jamash | you should see Matt McIrvin's indent-o-meter |
| 23:43.46 | drfuzzykins | I don't see a problem there |
| 23:43.56 | Arrowmaster | right, which is why you only use tabs for indenting between the beginning of the line and the text, one you use something other than a tab you stop using tabs |
| 23:43.57 | Shirik | as soon as you realize that, you realize that changing tabstop widths has the potential to cause misalignment |
| 23:44.06 | Thunder_Child | ~wtf sip |
| 23:44.08 | drfuzzykins | misalignment how? |
| 23:44.10 | Thunder_Child | ~sip |
| 23:44.11 | purl | [sip] http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/ X11 PPP dialer interface written in gtk+. URL: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Campus/3104/sip/ Session Initiation Protocol (see RFC 3261) |
| 23:44.24 | drfuzzykins | one block is indented once, the next is indented twice |
| 23:44.24 | Shirik | I wish I could show you |
| 23:44.30 | drfuzzykins | no matter what my tabstops, it's one, then two |
| 23:44.32 | Shirik | but I'm too lazy to reproduce Cide's example |
| 23:44.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Thunder_Child: VoIP protocol, more or less |
| 23:44.47 | Shirik | drfuzzykins: Ok, but how many tabstops is foo()? |
| 23:44.55 | drfuzzykins | why does that matter? |
| 23:44.59 | Thunder_Child | ScytheBlade1, decent one? |
| 23:45.01 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: it only causes misalignment if you use tabs someplace other than the beginning of a line |
| 23:45.01 | Shirik | because that's where the problem surfaces |
| 23:45.06 | drfuzzykins | how? |
| 23:45.12 | Shirik | because it's inconsistent |
| 23:45.14 | drfuzzykins | I use tabs for INDENTATION is what I said |
| 23:45.29 | drfuzzykins | if I need to line up all my equals signs like people love to do |
| 23:45.36 | drfuzzykins | I'll use spaces past the indentation level |
| 23:45.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Thunder_Child: used to build the sessions from host to host. One component of many |
| 23:45.41 | Shirik | why not just use spaces? |
| 23:45.45 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: those of us that do use and prefer tabs are usually smart enough to know to only use them for indentation |
| 23:45.56 | Shirik | hm, tell that to my senior class :P |
| 23:46.01 | drfuzzykins | because then when someone looks at my code, they can change the tabspot to suit their fancy |
| 23:46.06 | drfuzzykins | *stop |
| 23:46.15 | drfuzzykins | be it the width of 2 spaces or 5 |
| 23:46.36 | drfuzzykins | but the spaces continue to keep my equals signs aligned (I don't actually align my equals signs and stuff most of the time) |
| 23:47.36 | drfuzzykins | so I can code in 3 space-width tabs as my preference, but my weird ass friend can set them to the width of a single space and somehow read it |
| 23:50.25 | Jamash | I started at 8, then went to 6, then 4, then 3, then 2 |
| 23:50.34 | Jamash | next up: one |
| 23:53.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-68-57-187-183.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:56.23 | Shirik | why would you do that |
| 23:56.26 | Shirik | that's so inconsistent |
| 23:56.28 | Shirik | l2log |
| 23:56.55 | Shirik | Should be something like |
| 23:57.01 | Shirik | 16, then 4, then 2, then 1 |
| 23:57.09 | Jamash | 16 space tabstops, huh |
| 23:57.14 | drfuzzykins | or 8, 6, 4, 2 |
| 23:57.20 | drfuzzykins | skip 3 next time |
| 23:57.25 | Shirik | actually sqrt(2) is not 1 |
| 23:57.28 | Shirik | so that still kinda fails |
| 23:57.40 | Jamash | I think you mean 16 8 4 2 1 |
| 23:57.47 | drfuzzykins | 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 would work yeah |
| 23:57.55 | Shirik | However I think a 1.414-space tabstop would be difficult |
| 23:57.58 | Shirik | no, screw 8 |
| 23:58.07 | Shirik | 16, 4, 2, then if you really feel gutsy, 1.414 |
| 23:58.20 | Corrodias | the square root of 2 is my favorite number |
| 23:58.22 | Jamash | you just need to create your own font |
| 23:58.29 | drfuzzykins | if I could get my editor to use 1.414 tabs, I would |
| 23:58.31 | Shirik | sqrt(2)/2 is my favorite number |
| 23:58.32 | Cide- | Corrodias: so prove it's irrational ;) |
| 23:58.32 | drfuzzykins | just because |
| 23:58.35 | Jamash | with irrational spaces |
| 23:58.39 | Shirik | you know why? Because my company invented it! |
| 23:58.43 | airtonix | lol |
| 23:58.51 | Corrodias | i will prove nothing; i will just enjoy my root |
| 23:58.54 | Cide- | Shirik: prove sqrt(2)/2 is rational |
| 23:59.03 | airtonix | 42 |
| 23:59.04 | Shirik | lua> tonumber(math.sqrt(2) / 2):sub(1,5) |
| 23:59.05 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: attempt to index a number value |
| 23:59.10 | Shirik | lua> tostring(math.sqrt(2) / 2):sub(1,5) |
| 23:59.10 | lua_bot | Shirik: 0.707 |
| 23:59.13 | Shirik | ^ |
| 23:59.14 | NightHawkTheSane | how do you invent a number? |
| 23:59.24 | drfuzzykins | Cide-: Do any numbers have genders? |
| 23:59.25 | Cide- | prove sqrt(2)/2 is uninteresting |
| 23:59.26 | Shirik | lua> tonumber(tostring(math.sqrt(2) / 2):sub(1,5)) * 1000 |
| 23:59.27 | lua_bot | Shirik: 707 |
| 23:59.33 | Shirik | better? |
| 23:59.34 | MuNk | LUA is a String Length function? |
| 23:59.39 | krka | MuNk: If you are referring to the programming language, you should write Lua instead of LUA :-P |
| 23:59.46 | drfuzzykins | because if not, sqrt(2)/2 is rational because it is not a woman. |
| 23:59.52 | MuNk | meh bad happying :) |
