| 00:00.42 | Legorol | rofl |
| 00:03.48 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:04.41 | kd3 | hm. wonder how horridly badly this is going to go |
| 00:04.52 | kd3 | is screwing around trying to install .net3.5 in a clean wineprefix |
| 00:05.02 | ScytheBlade1 | terribly badly is my vote |
| 00:14.20 | bleeter | worse than terribly badly, is mine |
| 00:17.34 | ScytheBlade1 | chances are from the silence, he's busy pulling his hair out |
| 00:17.46 | kd3 | just watching things crash and burn |
| 00:17.52 | kd3 | good thing I did this in its own prefix |
| 00:19.21 | Dagmar | I'm just going to assume there's some .NET-specific dependence that's preventing the use of Mono |
| 00:19.40 | bleeter | WinForms sucks! |
| 00:19.47 | kd3 | trying to figure out how to install cc4's where I'm getting started |
| 00:19.53 | kd3 | doesn't know how to handle .application files |
| 00:20.02 | bleeter | Dagmar: you shoulda seen the hoops we had to leap through for auctioneerdb.com... kd3 can attest to the asshattery of it ;) |
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| 00:20.35 | bleeter | having said that, norgs proved once again he's a genius for getting it going |
| 00:21.23 | bleeter | with some help from kd3 and some other guy who's no doubt a complete tosser |
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| 00:22.59 | kd3 | heh, fail. http://images.gammatester.com/pics/f9568daa88c5292c81f2831a1c4d592a.jpg |
| 00:27.09 | Dagmar | bleeter: Man if I'd have known that was up i'd have already been submitting data for my server |
| 00:27.31 | Dagmar | Good thing you've mentioned it now |
| 00:28.04 | theorbtwo | Wow. That's some pretty fail in the merchant window. |
| 00:28.35 | Dagmar | They want their damn copper! |
| 00:28.58 | Dagmar | Those prices are kinda hilarious tho |
| 00:29.29 | Dagmar | I'm thinking the average person with 25 tokens could probably shake out their other pants and find the small change in gold the items cost |
| 00:29.36 | bleeter | Dagmar: spread the word, auctioneerdb.com is slowly growing. Far as I can tell, they have more datapoints already than WoWEcon |
| 00:29.47 | bleeter | Dagmar: but still will benefit from more submissions, etc. |
| 00:29.50 | Dagmar | bleeter: Oh I'm sure of that. It would be hard to have _less_ data |
| 00:30.01 | Dagmar | I'll hassle the people I've taught how to make money too |
| 00:30.04 | bleeter | Dagmar: and 'coz it's the auctioneer folks... you know we're kinda cool :) |
| 00:30.26 | Dagmar | Well, most notably, I know you're _not into making a profit at the expense of the entire server population_ |
| 00:30.29 | Dagmar | That's the important bit to me |
| 00:31.01 | Dagmar | Like, when did I stop religiously submitting data to Thottbot? When they got bought by goldfarmers and I started seeing skewed numbers |
| 00:31.27 | bleeter | hmm well it's not cheap to operate, we'll have to look in to recovering expenses at some stage. |
| 00:31.40 | bleeter | though we'll never go the gold selling route, or other such nasties :) |
| 00:31.48 | Dagmar | Thank god |
| 00:34.01 | theorbtwo | bleeter: N hits/day free, higher prio from the load balancers and more hits/day max with a small fee? |
| 00:36.21 | bleeter | we'll see |
| 00:36.44 | bleeter | on a tangental note... anyone who operates 'bug' websites noticed a major drop off in IE usage in the past month or two? |
| 00:37.05 | bleeter | some mates here in .au have noticed IE has dropped from ~75% to ~40% since April |
| 00:37.21 | theorbtwo | bleeter: Hm. Would be really nice to remove outliers from some of the summary stats. |
| 00:37.48 | Dagmar | People are finally getting the damn hint |
| 00:38.20 | theorbtwo | ...and to have "any EU", "any US", "any TW" as choices on the relm dropdowns. |
| 00:38.31 | Shirik | Dagmar: I honestly think Firefox is currently a worse choice than IE |
| 00:38.40 | bleeter | theorbtwo: yeah I was going to mention the dropdown thing to norgs when I next get a chance |
| 00:38.41 | Dagmar | "Hi kids! Ever seen a mysterious window asking you where you'd like to save '893.pdf' while browsing the web? No? it's because YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN PWNED." |
| 00:38.53 | Dagmar | Shirik: You would be greivously mistaken |
| 00:39.01 | Shirik | I disagree |
| 00:39.09 | bleeter | Galeon or bust!!! |
| 00:39.21 | Shirik | And actually, I don't think you can tell me whether or not I'm mistaken about what I think |
| 00:39.22 | bleeter | actually.. I'm back to dillo recently |
| 00:39.27 | Shirik | I'm fairly certain I know more about what I think than you do |
| 00:39.37 | bleeter | Shirik: you think? |
| 00:39.52 | Shirik | rarely |
| 00:39.53 | Corrodias | Dagmar: i got quite a few of those "did you request this pdf?" instances while reading notalwaysright.com a while back. never did save them. |
| 00:39.59 | Dagmar | Man, the thing I just made a joke about is an actual, in the wild exploit against Adobe PDF which _fails_ on Firefox because it becomes obvious. On IE, you don't generally get any warning. |
| 00:40.02 | bleeter | and by that, it's not an exclamation of surprise that you think.. more that... you think that you think that? |
| 00:40.07 | bleeter | I think |
| 00:40.13 | Corrodias | what's that all about? |
| 00:40.13 | Corrodias | ah |
| 00:40.22 | Shirik | Funny thing about PDFs is |
| 00:40.26 | Shirik | it has nothing to do with IE |
| 00:40.34 | Dagmar | Corrodias: If you ever want a recent exploit, just save the file somewhere and then open it on some machine that is less happy about trying to generate previews of documents (or Linux) |
| 00:40.36 | theorbtwo | I wonder what happened to silk cloth on the 28th. At first I thought it was probably a single outlier... but then I noticed that the volume went way up on the same date, *and stayed up*. |
| 00:40.40 | Shirik | Last I checked, IE doesn't know anything about PDFs |
| 00:40.48 | Shirik | I can write a horribly insecure module for Firefox to |
| 00:40.51 | Shirik | you going to blame that on firefox? |
| 00:40.54 | Corrodias | yes, most people's firefoxes are configured to use the adobe plugin to just automatically display any PDF |
| 00:41.03 | Dagmar | Shirik: It's a difference in how IE handles files for plugins |
| 00:41.03 | *** join/#wowuidev VonhintenHOME` (n=Kiss@c-71-203-103-139.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 00:41.16 | Shirik | In that it uses the IE one instead of the Firefox one? |
| 00:41.20 | Corrodias | that's one of the first things i disable, since that plugin pisses me off... |
| 00:41.20 | Dagmar | Corrodias: Except this exploit requires the file be on "local disk" |
| 00:41.28 | Corrodias | interesting |
| 00:41.31 | Shirik | Because neither has a security model |
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| 00:41.40 | Dagmar | Wow. You're just wrong there. |
| 00:41.48 | theorbtwo | I still wonder why somebody would buy a silk cloth for 57.51.19. |
| 00:41.52 | Shirik | I would love an explanation |
| 00:42.06 | Shirik | because I know for a fact I can write a module for firefox that damages your computer |
| 00:42.14 | Shirik | why else would it ask you for confirmation before installing it? |
| 00:42.20 | Adys | FUCKING FUCKING FUCK FIREFOX |
| 00:42.25 | Dagmar | Shirik: They both compartmentalize and classify data as they pull it down, and will flatly refuse to do some things to data that came from the Internet, man |
| 00:42.34 | Adys | PIECE OF SHIT BROWSER OUTTA MY SWEET SWEET BODYPARTS. |
| 00:42.40 | Dagmar | "installing it"? What are you talkign about |
| 00:42.52 | Adys | could someone help me solve a floating problem in ff? |
| 00:42.54 | Shirik | You are still blaming a security vulnerability on someone that has nothing to do with it |
| 00:42.57 | Gnarfoz | a firefox module, try reading |
| 00:43.12 | theorbtwo | The only difference here is that you have the IE PDF plugin installed, and not the FF PDF plugin. |
| 00:43.15 | Dagmar | No, I'm blaming a vulnerability on the people who made the tool that facilitates it. |
| 00:43.18 | Gnarfoz | Adys: just tell whoever the audience is what you just told us in caps :P |
| 00:43.20 | Adys | wow |
| 00:43.21 | Shirik | You mean Adobe? |
| 00:43.25 | Dagmar | ...and there's been PLENTY of other such cases |
| 00:43.26 | Shirik | I'm pretty sure Adobe didn't make IE |
| 00:43.31 | Adys | I get fuck-annoyed to bits with firefox |
| 00:43.32 | Adys | i tab here |
| 00:43.38 | Adys | you guys are complaining more about ff than I am |
| 00:43.40 | Dagmar | ...many of which never involved any plugins at all. |
| 00:43.45 | Adys | where the hell am I supposed to get any hope |
| 00:44.02 | Dagmar | The whole ActiveX control debacle for one thing |
| 00:44.02 | Shirik | Yes, let's switch topics now that we've proven that the PDF vulnerability has nothing to do with IE |
| 00:44.02 | Gnarfoz | Adys: no, we aren't actually :D |
| 00:44.02 | Shirik | Great idea |
| 00:44.06 | Corrodias | well spotted, Shirik :( |
| 00:44.12 | Dagmar | Shirik: No we haven't "proven" that. |
| 00:44.14 | Corrodias | i was hoping this would go somewhere... |
| 00:44.21 | Dagmar | *I* can freaking get it past someone's IE |
| 00:44.22 | Adys | Gnarfoz: just help me out with this shitty thing |
| 00:44.30 | Dagmar | ...and I'm not doing blackhat stuff anymore |
| 00:44.56 | Corrodias | you're... blaming IE for letting you use the adobe pdf plugin? |
| 00:45.03 | Dagmar | We can try this anotehr way... Prove FF is less secure |
| 00:45.11 | Shirik | I didn't say FF was less secure |
| 00:45.14 | Adys | FF is less secure, end of discussion |
| 00:45.18 | Dagmar | I can at least point to the source code of FF and say "no known vulnerabilities" |
| 00:45.18 | Shirik | I said it wasn't as good |
| 00:45.24 | bleeter | Adys: you're beyond hope, tho :P |
| 00:45.33 | Shirik | I believe FF is bloated beyond comparison to IE 8 |
| 00:45.34 | Adys | gtfo and install chrome |
| 00:45.34 | Dagmar | You can't very well say that about IE because they've got this three-month lead time before they generally even admit there's a problem |
| 00:45.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Adys: ... chrome? |
| 00:45.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Adys: no. |
| 00:45.51 | Corrodias | i don't want that many processes ._. |
| 00:45.52 | bleeter | dillo or bust! |
| 00:46.01 | Adys | ScytheBlade1: why not? |
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| 00:46.18 | Gnarfoz | Corrodias: you'll end up with them sooner or later anyway ;) |
| 00:46.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Adys: get it working under linux, and tell me that it was worth it |
| 00:46.30 | Shirik | Fact of the matter is you're taking the FF fanboi route and blaming Microsoft for all the problems in the world, quite literally those that do not involve Microsoft at all, in an attempt to say Firefox is better |
| 00:46.34 | Corrodias | i don't understand, Gnarfoz |
| 00:46.34 | ScytheBlade1 | (Hint: it isn't, and never will be) |
| 00:46.42 | Adys | ScytheBlade1: sudo apt-get install google-chrome-unstable |
| 00:46.44 | Shirik | And that is precisely what I was trying to point out from my initial statement |
| 00:46.46 | Adys | its my main browser |
| 00:46.51 | Adys | and flash is almost working |
| 00:46.51 | Shirik | <eom> |
| 00:47.00 | Adys | what the fuck are you complaining about? |
| 00:47.02 | Corrodias | end of month? >_> |
| 00:47.15 | ScytheBlade1 | should really read up as to why this debate is occuring |
| 00:47.16 | Shirik | end of message |
| 00:47.22 | Dagmar | I'm blaming Microsoft because their browser is broke and _regularly_ turns out new ways of tricking IE into thinking a file it *just downloaded* is a _local file_ |
| 00:47.31 | Dagmar | ...which is where the vast majority of their problems come from. |
| 00:47.47 | bleeter | why am I having flashbacks to the 90's??? |
| 00:47.49 | Dagmar | Now I'll be taking my CISSP and wandering off thank you |
| 00:47.56 | bleeter | browser wars are so last century |
| 00:47.58 | bleeter | build a bridge |
| 00:48.06 | theorbtwo | bleeter: s/'s/s/ |
| 00:48.11 | Shirik | bridge pattern is overrated |
| 00:48.20 | Dagmar | You don't even SEE the latest PDF exploit happening with IE |
| 00:48.25 | Shirik | I prefer the visitor pattern |
| 00:48.31 | Dagmar | It _just happens_ because IE doens't bother to present you with a dialog |
| 00:48.50 | Gnarfoz | here he goes pulling this cissp crap again |
| 00:48.51 | bleeter | theorbtwo: 'of the decade commencing in the year 1990' -> 90's :P |
| 00:49.06 | Adys | bleeter: hes right |
| 00:49.14 | Adys | grammarfucked, but right |
| 00:49.27 | Adys | and dont you fucking correct me, my quotes take two keystrokes |
| 00:49.32 | Esamynn | IE (and by extension Microsoft) are the root of all EVIL!!! :P |
| 00:49.39 | bleeter | Esamynn: no, that's me |
| 00:49.40 | Adys | besides Im pissed off at firefox real bad right now |
| 00:49.40 | Esamynn | s/are/is/ |
| 00:49.44 | Shirik | I thought it was proven that women were the root of all evil? |
| 00:49.45 | theorbtwo | Dagmar: FF is only presenting you with a dialog box because you don't have the plugin installed. |
| 00:50.05 | Shirik | http://www.heaven.org.au/blogs/heretics/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/proof_that_girls_are_evil.jpg |
| 00:50.19 | Esamynn | Shirik: is that work safe? |
| 00:50.22 | Shirik | yes |
| 00:50.27 | Gnarfoz | he's named like my mom anyway (not kidding), can't take him seriously even if I tried |
| 00:50.35 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: I have the plugin installed. |
| 00:50.39 | theorbtwo | Gnarfoz: Er, who is? |
| 00:52.33 | Gnarfoz | theorbtwo: the ex-blackhat with the cissp ;-) |
| 00:52.40 | Esamynn | Shirik: I have the distinct feeling I have seen that before |
| 00:52.49 | Shirik | it's fairly common |
| 00:56.34 | tase | Is there an addon that lets you create alerts, like "if target has hp < 200 then show message ...." ? |
| 00:57.00 | Dagmar | PowerAuras |
| 00:57.13 | tase | thanks going to check it out |
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| 00:58.04 | Cruciformer | Oldie but goodie: http://unix42.com/manwoman.jpg |
| 00:58.15 | Cruciformer | (work safe) |
| 00:58.19 | Dagmar | sphery: Neither |
| 00:58.19 | Adys | lol |
| 00:58.32 | Adys | grats Cruciformer you managed to cheer me up |
| 00:58.50 | Cruciformer | Adys: I live to serve :) |
| 00:58.57 | Adys | now fix this POS, Cruciformer |
| 00:59.09 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/c/34497/fjola-lightbane/ |
| 00:59.10 | Cruciformer | which POS in particular |
| 00:59.14 | Adys | this pos |
| 00:59.19 | Adys | the <screenshot> div |
| 00:59.31 | Adys | its supposed to be to the right of the infobox |
| 00:59.43 | Adys | its fine in ff3.5, the current code is standard |
| 00:59.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-58-198.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:59.57 | Adys | however in ff3.0 it will show above the tooltip due to order rules |
| 01:00.16 | Adys | easily fixed by moving the #screenshot under the #infobox |
| 01:00.27 | Cruciformer | all of a sudden I have an ugent need to be elsewhere ... GL with that Adys :) |
| 01:00.28 | Adys | but that means it'll go to the right of the infobox in ff3.5 |
| 01:00.47 | Adys | good luck with your stepbrother just coming back from portugal Cruciformer |
| 01:01.22 | Cruciformer | But seriously ... any reason you dont just use a table? I know people have this weird notion tables are evil but ... I think they're still valid. |
| 01:01.23 | Wobin | I think they hotfixed the worgen pet >< |
| 01:02.14 | Wobin | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/1db13448fbb6abb15d710ea147e29402.jpg |
| 01:02.32 | bleeter | well.. shite.. why didn't upnp.dll build /sigh |
| 01:02.35 | Cruciformer | but when you need horizontal positioning, I find table cells quite handy |
| 01:03.02 | Dagmar | Yep. It's been fixed |
| 01:03.21 | Dagmar | Wouldn't it be nice to have it in that size hot |
| 01:03.26 | Dagmar | s/hot/tho/; |
| 01:03.47 | Cruciformer | Adys: Does that help any or are you alergic to tables? |
| 01:03.48 | Adys | Cruciformer: because its more complicated with tables |
| 01:03.56 | Adys | and yea Im allergic |
| 01:04.19 | Legorol | I was just reading the patch notes about the raid ID extension mechanics, and I noticed this one, which is particularly nice: |
| 01:04.21 | Legorol | "An extension can be reversed on an individual basis provided the player does not do anything in the instance during the extended lockout period that would save that player to the instance" |
| 01:04.36 | Adys | I really rather piss myself off a few times and do it correctly than do it the easy way and piss myself on a few times in a couple of years |
| 01:05.06 | Legorol | In other words: progress up to Hard Boss. Run out of time in the raid week, extend ID. Keep trying Hard Boss for a bit during new raid week. Eventually decide that you can't kill hard boss. Reverse ID to "reset" instance. |
| 01:05.12 | Kraps | i'm watching blue's clues ftw |
| 01:05.24 | Corrodias | interesting, you can extend them now? |
| 01:05.30 | kd3 | come 3.2 |
| 01:05.50 | Legorol | yah, extending is very exciting in and of itself, but the ability to reverse an extension is particularly nice |
| 01:06.56 | Legorol | hm, this will give rise to some weird mechanics, i wonder if Blizz covered all scenarios. For example: |
| 01:07.19 | Legorol | Consider a raid consiting of player A and B. During week 1, they get locked to an instance. |
| 01:07.19 | mikma | http://wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=14022#comments :O |
| 01:07.48 | Legorol | Player A decides to extend the ID, but B does not. During week 2, A and B form a raid group again, with A as the leader (still holding the ID). |
| 01:08.05 | Legorol | When B enters the instance, presumably he will get saved to the ID again. Now what happens? |
| 01:08.37 | Legorol | A has the ability to reverse his extension still, but B got freshly saved to it, so does it result in a scenario whereby A can drop his ID but B can't? |
| 01:08.37 | tase | Does power auras allow defined values instead of %s in health check ? |
| 01:08.44 | Cruciformer | presumably if B wasnt saved to that instance no problem. If they were, they cant join becuase of different raid IDs |
| 01:08.55 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/pirate_compo.jpg |
| 01:08.57 | Adys | Legorol: they share the same ID, so if A extends, B extends. if A reverts, B reverts |
| 01:09.08 | Legorol | Adys: extension and reversion is on individual basis |
| 01:09.16 | Legorol | it's up to each player, according to the notes |
| 01:09.17 | Adys | really? |
| 01:09.18 | Legorol | which makes sense |
| 01:09.18 | Adys | piece of shit |
| 01:09.26 | Legorol | otherwise, a PUG leader could screw over a bunch of people |
| 01:09.49 | Adys | meh |
| 01:09.56 | Legorol | it's more flexible this way |
| 01:09.58 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/2108.jpg |
| 01:09.59 | Legorol | which is good |
| 01:10.33 | theorbtwo | Option 1: When the group reforms, B picks up A's ID, so they are in the same extension. Option 2: A and B cannot form a raid group. |
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| 01:11.32 | Legorol | theorbtwo: presumably you can always form a raid group regardless. |
| 01:11.45 | Legorol | I like your theory about B picking up the same extension |
| 01:11.56 | Legorol | so maybe B also gains the ability to reverse it |
| 01:12.14 | Legorol | this will be exciting to experiment with |
| 01:13.04 | bleeter | is it just me or is failbook failing hard right now? highlights heading with no highlights, peoples photos and stuff ain't showing in the news feed etc.? |
| 01:15.36 | kd3 | lol, "Not One, But Two Jormungars" didn't get changed |
| 01:17.00 | Nechckn | bleeter it's extra-laggy |
| 01:17.11 | theorbtwo | What'd be more interesting is if A kept the original ID, but B reverted, then started again. |
| 01:21.25 | Gnarfoz | I'm rather more interested in if the theory that reverting an extension after the original lock has expired will give you access to that week's fresh ID is really how it's going to be |
| 01:26.22 | Legorol | Gnarfoz: i think that's the whole idea |
| 01:26.31 | Legorol | so that if you mistakenly extend, you can undo it |
| 01:26.31 | Kraps | kd3: DUDE ITS LIKE TWO JORMUNGARS MAN |
| 01:26.52 | Legorol | according to the notes, you can extend recently expired IDs, meaning you can extend when the new week is already underway |
| 01:27.05 | Dagmar | ...so ther will hopefully be no more "WTF!? WHERE IS EMALON, MAN?!?@!" |
| 01:27.18 | Legorol | no dagmar, that is still going to be there |
| 01:27.23 | Dagmar | Joy |
| 01:27.31 | Legorol | but that's been adressed by the recently added confirmation box when you enter an instance |
| 01:28.10 | Arrowmaster | i bet it will lock you when you zone into an extended instance just like how it locks you now if you enter an instance after others are locked to it |
| 01:34.11 | Kraps | what should a tank get on his shield if he doesn't need +20 defense? |
| 01:35.56 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: yes that much we suggested, the question is, do you get locked to a reversible or irreversible ID? |
| 01:36.33 | Legorol | The person who extended the ID is still able to reverse it, so his is "reversible". Another person who acquires the ID via entering the instance may or may not get a "reversible" ID. |
| 01:38.03 | Arrowmaster | they would still probably get the 'you will be locked in 60 seconds' popup |
| 01:38.10 | Legorol | indeed |
| 01:38.31 | Legorol | actually, if you read this again: ""An extension can be reversed on an individual basis provided the player does not do anything in the instance during the extended lockout period that would save that player to the instance" |
| 01:38.54 | Legorol | It says anything that would save you to the instance. Entering an instance normally saves you to it if it's already an active ID. |
| 01:39.15 | Legorol | So it may come down to being as simple as: "did you enter the instance again this week? if so, you can't reverse it" |
| 01:39.29 | Legorol | that then makes it work consistently for people with no ID who enter your extended ID |
| 01:39.47 | Legorol | they'd get the ID, and since they entered the instance, would not be able to reverse it |
| 01:40.31 | Dagmar | Gotcha. thanks |
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| 01:40.47 | Legorol | i'm guessing the reversing is intended as a short-term remedy for misclicks etc., not as a way for you to be able to run around in the instance a bit more then reset it if you can't kill any more bosses |
| 01:41.05 | Arrowmaster | it could be on boss kill but like you pointed out, i dont think blizzard wants it used for high end guilds to get another 6 days of attempts on a really hard boss before giving up and clearing everything else on the last day |
| 01:41.17 | Legorol | indeed |
| 01:42.56 | Arrowmaster | good for those 'hey our alt 10man doesnt have enough time to clear the entire instance every week so now we can kill the last bosses instead of farming the first ones over and over for nothing useful' situations |
| 01:43.19 | Legorol | yup |
| 01:43.31 | Legorol | good for KT, when your aim is the higher ilevel |
| 01:44.07 | Legorol | i even know of casual guilds that get a raid group together from time to time, once a week or so, and are not able to clear Naxx in one night |
| 01:44.21 | Legorol | this way they get to do different wings on different weeks, and maybe even get to KT |
| 01:45.12 | Legorol | btw, does anyone have the PTR patch (10048 to 10072) for enGB? |
| 01:45.15 | Adys | bleeter: (...) however this can be curcumvented my immediately launching the connection info, and then closing it, and ignoring the error message. |
| 01:45.45 | Corrodias | it -could- be their way of handling the balance between short resets (hard to get far, but fast looting) and long ones (good progression, slow looting) |
| 01:47.54 | Legorol | good night folks |
| 01:51.16 | Gnarfoz | wtb dsl |
| 01:52.25 | bleeter | Adys: wut? |
| 01:52.39 | Adys | the downloader crash |
| 01:53.05 | bleeter | oh I'd rather see a working upnp stub in tree ;) |
| 01:53.23 | Cruciformer | Adys: Trying to get the PTR stuff down? |
| 01:53.38 | Adys | no, just pasting from appdb |
| 01:53.51 | bleeter | Cruciformer: trying to see if Wine really WILL need some upnp support so folks can get 3.2, yeah ;) |
| 01:54.17 | bleeter | Adys: ah.. fair enough. not really a practical long term solution, is it |
| 01:54.26 | Cruciformer | upnp? I thought that was like set-top-box and media streamer shit |
| 01:54.43 | Arrowmaster | and router autodetection |
| 01:54.48 | bleeter | Cruciformer: peer-to-peer across router stuff |
| 01:54.57 | Arrowmaster | and automatic port forwarding for bittorrent |
| 01:54.58 | Cruciformer | oic |
| 01:55.12 | bleeter | Cruciformer: for example, file transfer on AIM is largely fail without some form of upnp networking |
| 01:56.02 | Arrowmaster | aim always uses the same port, you just need to forward it |
| 01:56.10 | Arrowmaster | no i dont remember what port it is |
| 01:56.47 | bleeter | Arrowmaster: from memory, though, that depends if you want to reveal your IP address n stuffs |
| 01:57.01 | bleeter | and whether you want to be able to do multiple simultaneous transfers, too |
| 01:57.16 | bleeter | it's been a few years since the prpl was changed to support iut |
| 01:57.18 | bleeter | it |
| 01:57.56 | Arrowmaster | although its probably 5190, but like most file transfer stuff it tends to only work in one direction unless both sides have open ports |
| 02:03.50 | bleeter | yeah and it's the open port foo that upnp really helps with, otherwise it's all via slow-ass AOL proxies |
| 02:03.59 | bleeter | and libpurple does it's own upnp implementation |
| 02:04.14 | bleeter | which is then reused inside the AIM foo |
| 02:05.50 | ScytheBlade1 | upnp needs to die, viva la ipv6 |
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| 02:52.18 | Shirik | upnp always needed to die, ScytheBlade1 |
| 02:52.21 | Shirik | cause of so many more problems, including many awesome DoSes |
| 02:54.24 | Dagmar | Only local stuff. Not much of a deal there |
| 02:55.13 | Shirik | that's a very interesting perspective from someone with a CISSP |
| 02:55.52 | Shirik | you mean only on the same subnet? That's just flat out wrong |
| 02:56.09 | ScytheBlade1 | you don't need upnp to DoS a remote target |
| 02:56.22 | Shirik | well sure |
| 02:56.43 | Shirik | so you're saying "I have one security hole, so why not make it two" |
| 02:57.08 | Dagmar | If it allowed you to take the average LInksys router and make it fire packets at a third party, THEN it would be a big deal |
| 02:57.30 | Dagmar | Getting a local network foothold is generally kinda a bigger deal than anything you can do with uPnP |
| 02:57.40 | Shirik | yeah, who cares if we kick off 1000 users from the internet |
| 02:57.47 | Shirik | no problem there |
| 02:58.01 | Dagmar | How exactly do you intend to do that with uPnP? |
| 02:58.19 | Shirik | find 1000 people with vulnerable hardware, send appropriate packet, say "bye bye" |
| 02:58.42 | Dagmar | That's not the way that sort of thing works, man |
| 02:58.56 | Shirik | uh, yes it does |
| 02:59.01 | Shirik | because I was personally affected by it |
| 02:59.07 | Dagmar | Sucks to be you. |
| 02:59.17 | Dagmar | I use a firewall that doesn't take candy from strangers. |
| 02:59.21 | Shirik | Yeah, also sucks to be someone with a worthless certification, huh? |
| 02:59.37 | Dagmar | I'm pretty sure I also killed more people than just 1,000 with exploits before uPnP was even common |
| 02:59.42 | Shirik | It was a very well-known problem for WRT54G and co. routers |
| 03:00.04 | Shirik | So once again, you're taking the road of "There's enough other vulnerabilities, this one's ok" |
| 03:00.16 | Shirik | Which, I repeat, is a very interesting perspective from someone with a CISSP |
| 03:00.22 | Dagmar | *sigh* It's not a "vulnerability" when you set up a service that doesnt' require credentials and something uses it |
| 03:00.26 | Dagmar | It's just called "stupid" |
| 03:00.35 | Shirik | uh |
| 03:00.44 | Shirik | I'm pretty sure putting the router into a deadlock is a vulnerability |
| 03:00.52 | Shirik | I mean, it might be just me, but most software isn't intended to deadlock |
| 03:01.03 | Shirik | I know I don't intentionally write code like that |
| 03:01.10 | Shirik | Maybe the guys at Linksys know more than me |
| 03:01.11 | Dagmar | So since when do those take instructions from the internet side? |
| 03:01.19 | Shirik | since this vulnerability existed |
| 03:01.49 | Shirik | I think you're missing the quite obvious point that a vulnerability is code which operates in a manner other than what it was intended to operate |
| 03:02.52 | Dagmar | I think perhaps when you start paying your bills doing IT security you'll have the latitude to act like you're doing now. |
| 03:02.52 | bleeter | most vulns come out of ugly hacks to work around crappy orginal designs |
| 03:03.01 | Dagmar | Until then you're just mildly irksome |
| 03:03.02 | bleeter | eg, upnp to overcome the ipv4 issue |
| 03:03.44 | Shirik | Dagmar: I forgot, people who get paid are always more intelligent than those that aren't. Damn, the people in my IT department must be geniuses then. |
| 03:03.54 | Dagmar | ~failrik |
| 03:03.55 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 03:04.04 | Dagmar | Nuff said |
| 03:04.41 | bleeter | I'm glad the ops in this # have never applied to be ops in #pidgin or #guifications... 'coz they're so crap at being ops :P |
| 03:04.55 | bleeter | i'd be all NOOOO! THEY FAIL |
| 03:05.25 | Dagmar | I suppose if it happens to you personally you'd consider it a high risk problem |
| 03:05.38 | Shirik | are you implying that I should be more willing to kb someone instantly, bleeter? |
| 03:05.45 | Dagmar | Everyone else doesn't get very excited about vulnerabilities in hardware you can buy for $50 that's only meant for hom use |
| 03:06.14 | bleeter | Shirik: soon as an argument becomes circular, or ad hominem.. sure thing. there's a reason #pidgin is hated by so many ;) |
| 03:06.39 | bleeter | I know sometimes I've been expecting a kick in here and have been... surprised ... when it's not happened |
| 03:06.41 | Shirik | hey I found out one of my coworkers uses pidgin today! |
| 03:06.51 | bleeter | Shirik: leave your job.. just walk away |
| 03:07.02 | Shirik | it's ok, he's not on my team |
| 03:07.17 | bleeter | Shirik: the end of pidgin really started when Microsoft submitted patches for the MSN protocol plugin |
| 03:07.24 | Shirik | in fact I'm working on making his team obsolete ^_^ |
| 03:07.40 | Thunder_Child | i use pidgin |
| 03:07.41 | Shirik | when I'm done with my project, all the code they write will be auto-generated muahaha, though they'll probably end up maintaining that code |
| 03:07.48 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: you would! :P |
| 03:07.53 | Thunder_Child | indeed |
| 03:07.59 | Shirik | they do, bleeter? |
| 03:08.00 | bleeter | Cairenn's usage of pidgin is excusable |
| 03:08.04 | Shirik | That's interesting actually |
| 03:08.05 | kd3 | meh, so... not quite the threat of replacing them with a very small shell script, but close? |
| 03:08.24 | bleeter | Shirik: they did, when there was some weird thing MSN did that required proxy to 'work' for a while, and the code wasn't perfect |
| 03:08.35 | bleeter | Shirik: some internal admin types send a patch or two |
| 03:09.13 | bleeter | btw, if anyone else gives good blizzcon pics like Cairenn, their usage of Pidgin would also be excusable |
| 03:09.24 | bleeter | though I do suspect half the pidgin users in here should really be using finch |
| 03:09.32 | bleeter | such as yours truly *cough* |
| 03:10.21 | Shirik | bleeter: What about good blizzcon pics OF Cairenn? |
| 03:10.41 | Shirik | would that be the next level? |
| 03:11.17 | Thunder_Child | bleeter, i like how pidgin has a faq for finch but doesnt actually say what it is |
| 03:12.03 | Gnarfoz | bleeter: the banhammer for this channel is made by Nerf :> |
| 03:12.21 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: from the FAQ ... "For details on how to do this, read 'man finch'." |
| 03:12.31 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: nuff said :P |
| 03:12.47 | Thunder_Child | hardly, that just say what it runs on, not what it is/does |
| 03:13.03 | Gnarfoz | also, I'm still completely amazed that Stars obliterated Yogg+0 ;O |
| 03:13.38 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: from 'man finch' |
| 03:13.39 | bleeter | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:13.48 | bleeter | but.. I'll mention it to sadrul et al |
| 03:15.37 | Shirik | howdo you pronounce pidgin anyway? |
| 03:15.37 | Shirik | is it just like pigeon? |
| 03:15.43 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: OK, I have two official responsed for you: |
| 03:15.50 | bleeter | 1) It's a secret only for cool kids |
| 03:15.59 | bleeter | 2) People who can't read a man page shouldn't use it so GTFO |
| 03:16.05 | bleeter | Shirik: like.. erm.. pidgin |
| 03:16.06 | ScytheBlade1 | pid-gen |
| 03:16.17 | bleeter | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:16.18 | bleeter | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:16.18 | bleeter | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:16.21 | ScytheBlade1 | yup |
| 03:16.27 | Thunder_Child | 1) cool kids dont have seecrets because then no one would know they were cool |
| 03:16.32 | bleeter | look it up in your local dictionary for your dialect's pronunciation |
| 03:16.32 | Thunder_Child | 2) i can read them just fine |
| 03:16.49 | Shirik | I didn't realize it was a real word |
| 03:16.52 | bleeter | we don't care if no one knows we're cool.... we know.. and that's cool |
| 03:16.52 | ScytheBlade1 | It is |
| 03:17.01 | Dagmar | Reading is fundamental |
| 03:17.01 | ScytheBlade1 | It's a word that fits the program *perfectly* |
| 03:17.12 | Shirik | wtf |
| 03:17.13 | Shirik | Etymology |
| 03:17.13 | Shirik | From pigeon English, from a Chinese attempt to pronounce the English word business during trades in the Far East. |
| 03:17.22 | bleeter | Shirik: it's a total play on pidgin languages, pidgin protocols... as well as being kinda like the bird word.. and gaim<>game, game bird.. etc. etc. |
| 03:17.35 | Thunder_Child | 'Cool' is a comparison |
| 03:17.50 | Fisker | oh god i'm stabbing you Shirik |
| 03:17.54 | Shirik | k |
| 03:18.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: think about it for a moment - "IM English" is in a way, "pidgin English" |
| 03:18.21 | Dagmar | I wouldn't say "in a way", I'd say it is |
| 03:18.33 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah, it is |
| 03:18.45 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: :) |
| 03:19.11 | bleeter | txt speak, leet speek, then each protocol seems to have developed it's own shorthands, depending on regions too |
| 03:19.20 | ScytheBlade1 | yup |
| 03:19.20 | bleeter | a linguist could have a lifetime of doctorates etc. |
| 03:19.25 | ScytheBlade1 | they're all pidgin languages |
| 03:21.17 | ReAn | lol linguistics, there was a course offered @ my uni that was Linguistics of Extraterrestrial Languages |
| 03:21.24 | ReAn | they study klingon and the such |
| 03:21.25 | ReAn | :p |
| 03:21.43 | Dagmar | Geez |
| 03:21.43 | bleeter | there's an aussie perl guru who gives talks in klingon |
| 03:22.00 | bleeter | seem to recall he did it to try and get a tax refund on some trekky gear, but the tax office didn't fall for it |
| 03:22.03 | MentalPower | oh dear... |
| 03:22.21 | Dagmar | He didn't try hard enough |
| 03:22.25 | MentalPower | klingon is suprisingly complete |
| 03:22.45 | Dagmar | If it was a selling point that he was doing those in Klingon then klingon-literacy materials woudl totally be valid for deductions |
| 03:22.48 | MentalPower | and for that matter so is tolkien's elvish |
| 03:22.51 | theorbtwo | bleeter: PJF? |
| 03:23.11 | bleeter | theorbtwo: might be the one |
| 03:24.12 | theorbtwo | He was just going on about how a conference let him fufill his lifelong goal of claiming a trek uniform as an expense on his taxes. |
| 03:24.19 | bleeter | http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2009/public/schedule/detail/8165 |
| 03:24.58 | bleeter | oh, he got it? I thought he was saying at linux.conf.au he got knocked back.. mm might've been some other tax scam others were trying to run |
| 03:25.20 | bleeter | bIlujDI' yIchegh()Qo'; yIHegh()! |
| 03:25.21 | bleeter | It is better to die() than to return() in failure. |
| 03:25.27 | theorbtwo | Yep, Paul Fenwik eq PJF. |
| 03:25.43 | bleeter | funny chap, good value |
| 03:25.51 | bleeter | knows his stuff too |
| 03:26.42 | theorbtwo | He certianly should. He proposed and wrote autodie. |
| 03:26.52 | theorbtwo | ...and does perl training for a living. |
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| 03:30.01 | Shirik | MentalPower: How complete could it possibly need to be? |
| 03:30.05 | Shirik | "Halt" |
| 03:30.07 | Shirik | "I kill you" |
| 03:30.11 | Shirik | "Honor" |
| 03:30.16 | Shirik | I think that's about all that's necessary |
| 03:30.26 | tase | no Killing Spree ? |
| 03:30.37 | Fisker | mourns the death of Shirik |
| 03:38.05 | AnduinLothar | ok, so i need a damage meter that just tracks damage and dps rankings for the current/last boss encounter.... |
| 03:38.50 | Kraps | got FL to half health with 3 towers up |
| 03:39.31 | Shirik | !api GetDepositCost |
| 03:39.31 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'GetDepositCost'. |
| 03:41.33 | Fisker | mourns the death of Shirik |
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| 04:10.40 | Shirik | damn |
| 04:10.43 | Shirik | sourceforge got pimped out |
| 04:11.17 | Cairenn | lol, that's been a common refrain the last few days, hasn't it? |
| 04:11.18 | bluspacecow | in a good wayor in a bad way ? |
| 04:11.46 | bleeter | bluspacecow: it's been downhill since ~1999.. so... ;) |
| 04:12.25 | bluspacecow | we talking in terms of the ui design of their site or their services in general ? |
| 04:14.35 | Shirik | ui surely |
| 04:15.09 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 04:15.23 | bluspacecow | ~fish Fisker |
| 04:15.23 | purl | ACTION slaps Fisker around with a large trout |
| 04:15.38 | Fisker | sourceforge supports piracy omg sue |
| 04:16.30 | bluspacecow | names not sue |
| 04:16.33 | bluspacecow | its jane :D |
| 04:17.05 | ReAn | i used to raid w/ some sf admins >_> |
| 04:17.27 | ReAn | they were pretty pissed cuz the company is basically a beurocratic joke now |
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| 04:38.18 | Shishire | does the function GuildSetLeaderByName("member") still exist? I'm seeing it return an error for it being a nil value |
| 04:38.46 | Dagmar | Just to show I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, I've checked 15 different advisory sites now... Strangely no one else on the internet seems to think the LInksys uPnP problem was more than a moderate irritation |
| 04:38.49 | Dagmar | Imagine that |
| 04:39.27 | Dagmar | ...but hey, people who aren't forced to worry about their enterprise gateways being compromised can declare dinky home equiment problems to be "awesome DOS" and get away with it |
| 04:41.10 | Dagmar | ...and saying that uPnP is bad because Linksys screwed up is about as sensible as saying HTTP is broken because IE lets bad things happen to people's browsers |
| 04:42.25 | bleeter | oh god |
| 04:42.45 | bleeter | I thought I was the villiage idiot for ranting and raving |
| 04:42.51 | bleeter | please don't step on my shoes |
| 04:43.06 | theorbtwo | The thing is that upnp is, to a degree, broken by design. However, I'm far too tired to argue the point now. |
| 04:44.02 | Dagmar | bleeter: Well, I tend to get a little irritated when every time there's a disagreement between me and him, he starts in with the personal attacks almost immediately |
| 04:44.15 | Dagmar | ...and he's just dead wrong about this one. |
| 04:44.34 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: It's not broken by design, it just wasn't designed to be a "secure" protocol |
| 04:44.54 | Dagmar | Like your VCR doesn't ask for a password when you eject a tape. It wasn't a design consideration because it was only supposed to be used on small networks |
| 04:45.03 | Dagmar | specifically, home networks |
| 04:45.33 | Dagmar | Expecting it to be a secure protocol is where failure happens |
| 04:45.40 | theorbtwo | Dagmar: But while home networks have low target profiles, they also have very little protecting them. |
| 04:45.57 | Dagmar | It doesn't take much aside from a firewall that doesn't allow inbound connections |
| 04:46.06 | Corrodias | so just what does upnp do? |
| 04:46.11 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (n=bluspace@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 04:46.15 | Dagmar | Users will click on whatever looks shiniest on the workstations |
| 04:46.41 | theorbtwo | Dagmar: Yes. The thing is, that if you have upnp enabled, you no longer have a firewall that doesn't allow incomming connections. |
| 04:46.44 | Dagmar | Corrodias: The networking stuff takes requests from local devices for forwarding traffic external to the network on given ports to an internal host |
| 04:46.55 | Dagmar | I.e., it's a low-effort protocol for setting up tunnels for incoming connections |
| 04:47.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 04:47.11 | theorbtwo | But it's not just low-effort, it's also insecure and insecurable. |
| 04:47.18 | Corrodias | hmm. since it only takes requests from local devices, why should it be secure? |
| 04:47.23 | theorbtwo | There's no provision for requiring a username and password to do it. |
| 04:47.30 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: Linksys muffed it. It's not *supposed* to take connections from external network interfaces. Heck by default clients set a TTL of 4 usually |
| 04:48.09 | theorbtwo | So anything that can exploit locally can suddenly open up a listen socket, dispite there being a firewall in the way. |
| 04:48.10 | Corrodias | if somebody's in a position to connect to your network locally, there's a hell of a lot worse they can do than forward a few ports |
| 04:48.30 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: Yes, because if your program is asking for it it should be smart enough to deal with it |
| 04:48.35 | Shishire | The biggest problem is and always will be PEBKAC. If the user gets software which request such things, nothing on earth will prevent them from being insecure. |
| 04:48.37 | Dagmar | Corrodias: Exactly |
| 04:48.49 | Dagmar | Like a lead pipe is about all you need for DHCP security |
| 04:49.04 | Dagmar | You can go find a problematic DHCP client and smash it 'cuz there's wires leading right to it. ;) |
| 04:49.22 | Corrodias | that's like letting someone locally cycle the power on the modem. i mean, okay, it kinda sucks, but the fact that they can rampantly post child porn on the web through your connection is a bit more of a concern |
| 04:49.27 | Dagmar | I used to have one mounted on my desk |
| 04:49.57 | theorbtwo | The problem I see is where you download a virus. It opens up a port on your firewall, makes a shell server, and announces it on the web, for all comers. |
| 04:50.51 | Corrodias | that sounds like a reasonable concern |
| 04:51.14 | Shishire | A well made virus, which is targeted, can bypass any sort of firewall stuff. If necessesary, it could probably use curl to tell the router to open ports. Most routers have default passwords. |
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| 05:02.03 | kd3 | har at xkcd |
| 05:02.43 | Shirik | kd3: I've already tried to convince people of that one |
| 05:02.51 | Shirik | Only family members have believed me so far |
| 05:04.26 | bleeter | I suspect it'll be a problem, but moreso in the embedded market than in the desktop/server market like Y2K was |
| 05:05.16 | Corrodias | automatically disbelieves anything Shirik says, because he is evil. |
| 05:05.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 05:05.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 05:05.40 | Corrodias | see! SEE! |
| 05:08.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 05:08.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 05:10.09 | bleeter | Dagmar: I just tend to find bating and/or arguing with chanops is fairly pointless |
| 05:10.25 | Shirik | why does purl respond to pings incorrectly :/ |
| 05:11.09 | bleeter | Shishire: I'd tend to agree it's mostly caused by PEBKAC, but when the OS shipped on, say, the cheap Dell one's bought from Walmart, etc., is already highly susceptible to such PEBKAC issue for new users... is it *really* PEBKAC or crap engineering? |
| 05:11.27 | bleeter | either way, upnp is evil and should die in a fire |
| 05:11.52 | bleeter | Why BLizz insist on requiring it is anyone's guess /sigh |
| 05:12.07 | bleeter | oh wait hang on no guesswork required ;) |
| 05:12.14 | Shirik | why are we still talking about this |
| 05:12.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Rincewind` (n=Rince@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Rincewind) |
| 05:12.25 | Shirik | I thought we were talking about klingon |
| 05:12.28 | Shirik | let's go back to that discussion |
| 05:12.58 | bleeter | Shirik: coz I was having a discussion in #Pidgin about why fixing up the add/deny buddy API so that it's consistent is actually a really bad idea ;) |
| 05:13.03 | Aqua | what do star trek and toilet paper have in common? they both go around ur-anus and fight off klingons.... |
| 05:13.14 | bleeter | and having that discussion without explicitly saying why is darn tricky |
| 05:13.24 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 05:13.45 | bleeter | Shirik: I'd prefer it if Fisker slaps you instead of you talk Klingon! |
| 05:13.54 | Aqua | got visual studio 2008 sp1 makes me want to cry.... it takes so long to install. |
| 05:14.17 | Shirik | haha |
| 05:14.21 | Shirik | dealt with that last week :) |
| 05:14.25 | Shirik | Try team suite! It's even worse |
| 05:14.44 | Aqua | hey, i'm reinstall professional / sp1 |
| 05:14.47 | Aqua | that is bad enough |
| 05:14.57 | Aqua | I've done team suite a long time ago |
| 05:15.01 | Aqua | back when it was just ".net" |
| 05:15.43 | Aqua | I gotta install SQL Express yet... |
| 05:15.45 | Aqua | argh... |
| 05:16.47 | Aqua | and i gotta figure out how to dockable panels inside of windows forms, this ought to be fun |
| 05:17.27 | Aqua | althought windows preferentation foundation might be easier |
| 05:22.15 | Aqua | Shirik? you messed with wpf any? |
| 05:24.07 | Shirik | nop! |
| 05:24.27 | Aqua | pretty cool stuff |
| 05:24.29 | Shirik | I hate .NET in general |
| 05:24.33 | Shirik | and only use it when I have to |
| 05:24.40 | Aqua | yea |
| 05:28.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 05:28.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 05:30.25 | Duman | hmm |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 05:33.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 05:34.22 | Fisker | raaaaaaaaaaaaaaage |
| 05:34.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: connect through ssh+irssi already |
| 05:34.51 | Shirik | fuck that |
| 05:34.55 | Shirik | I don't want to keep reconnecting to ssh |
| 05:35.04 | ScytheBlade1 | compared to reconnecting to freenode? |
| 05:35.11 | Shirik | I don't even notice that ^_^ |
| 05:35.14 | Shirik | autoreconnect ftw |
| 05:35.22 | Shirik | spamming you though huh |
| 05:35.26 | ScytheBlade1 | The other 149 people here probably do though! |
| 05:35.31 | Shirik | I don't really get why it's happening |
| 05:35.57 | ScytheBlade1 | look into http://www.psybnc.at/ |
| 05:36.09 | ScytheBlade1 | it's an IRC proxy |
| 05:37.57 | Thunder_Child | woo hoo "Tales of Monkey Island Episode 101 Launch of the Screaming Narwhal" |
| 05:38.02 | bleeter | http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/aus/1121771299.html |
| 05:38.07 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: wut?? |
| 05:38.13 | ScytheBlade1 | oh man, /aus/ |
| 05:38.17 | ScytheBlade1 | this has got to be good |
| 05:38.34 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 05:38.35 | ScytheBlade1 | wat |
| 05:38.49 | Thunder_Child | bleeter, the release date is today |
| 05:39.26 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: I plan on making my own bnc some day :) |
| 05:39.39 | Shirik | because none of the ones out there satisfy my desires |
| 05:39.41 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: you know, I might actually change my opinion of you merely for bringing me this news... now, it better be good ;) |
| 05:39.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: some day is not today! it is not now! |
| 05:39.44 | ScytheBlade1 | boo |
| 05:39.53 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 05:41.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 05:41.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 05:41.09 | Thunder_Child | bleeter, so sayeth the reviews |
| 05:41.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: http://shirik-fail.pastey.net/117210 |
| 05:41.36 | Shirik | I'm on irssi now |
| 05:41.51 | ScytheBlade1 | So you are |
| 05:41.54 | ScytheBlade1 | nods in approval |
| 05:42.07 | Shirik | how do I switch between "tabs" again? |
| 05:42.11 | Shirik | I thought it was < > |
| 05:42.12 | ScytheBlade1 | alt+number |
| 05:42.16 | Shirik | boo |
| 05:42.23 | ScytheBlade1 | that's what I use |
| 05:42.26 | Shirik | and get off my CTCP |
| 05:42.35 | Shirik | not trusting me :( |
| 05:42.35 | ScytheBlade1 | hey, I had to be sure you could be trusted! |
| 05:43.03 | Shirik | you all suck |
| 05:43.05 | End | :D |
| 05:43.37 | Thunder_Child | indeed |
| 05:43.43 | Shirik | p.s. now that I'm connected to irssi, the internet won't cut out anymore |
| 05:43.46 | Thunder_Child | ctcp flood? |
| 05:43.51 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 05:43.54 | ScytheBlade1 | probably |
| 05:44.13 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: good, it'll give me something to spend my 2 account's subs on while I wait for Blizz to fix their dumbass scaling issues |
| 05:44.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik, you should set up a saved putty session |
| 05:44.56 | Shirik | I do |
| 05:45.05 | Shirik | I just wish it would auto-reconnect better |
| 05:45.11 | ScytheBlade1 | then you should make a shortcut to launch that session |
| 05:45.12 | Shirik | You know what someone needs to do |
| 05:45.14 | Shirik | make a screen client |
| 05:45.21 | Shirik | so that not only do you connect to ssh |
| 05:45.27 | Shirik | but also reconnect to the screen you were on |
| 05:45.45 | bleeter | Shirik: man alias |
| 05:45.54 | bleeter | oh, you mean a win32/64 app? |
| 05:45.56 | ScytheBlade1 | actually iirc putty can execute a command upon login |
| 05:45.56 | bleeter | bwhahaha |
| 05:46.04 | Shirik | I meant anything, really |
| 05:46.07 | Shirik | X app, whatever |
| 05:46.10 | bleeter | yeah could prolly easily change putty |
| 05:46.25 | bleeter | on *nix, just an alias would suffice I think |
| 05:46.34 | Shirik | but I'd still have to type it out |
| 05:46.44 | End | I'm not sure how to execute a command, if you apparently can set an environment variable |
| 05:46.50 | End | oh wait |
| 05:46.51 | End | found it |
| 05:47.00 | End | Under Connection->SSH |
| 05:47.29 | ScytheBlade1 | There you go |
| 05:47.38 | ScytheBlade1 | You can have a session that reconnects to your screen session automatically |
| 05:47.49 | End | also, s/if/but/ |
| 05:47.55 | Shirik | while we're on the topic of SSH |
| 05:48.02 | Shirik | let's discuss Trinity (The Matrix) |
| 05:48.35 | Shirik | In doing some resarch a few days ago I came across an interesting point - Trinity uses a hack against SSHv1 about 3 years before it was discovered |
| 05:48.44 | ScytheBlade1 | erm |
| 05:48.46 | ScytheBlade1 | no? |
| 05:48.52 | End | 3 years before it was discovered? |
| 05:48.57 | Shirik | yah |
| 05:49.01 | ScytheBlade1 | link. |
| 05:49.17 | kd3 | http://wowi.pastey.net/117211 |
| 05:49.25 | kd3 | anyone know if I can cut anything out of that? |
| 05:49.36 | Shirik | http://insecure.org/stf/neiljk.html |
| 05:49.36 | End | cheese |
| 05:49.51 | End | oh |
| 05:49.54 | Shirik | ok not 3 years |
| 05:49.56 | Shirik | 1 year |
| 05:49.57 | Shirik | whatever |
| 05:49.58 | End | years by setting |
| 05:50.01 | Shirik | "before" is the important part |
| 05:50.14 | Aqua | wow is C# for visual studio really called Visual C# |
| 05:50.23 | Shirik | Yes |
| 05:50.38 | End | what does that macro even do? |
| 05:51.06 | Shirik | anyway, I prefer to take the second option - Trinity came across it in the future by reading old-world stuffs |
| 05:51.08 | kd3 | prints out the list of stuff in a vendor and what they cost in terms of items (like badges) |
| 05:51.25 | Shirik | kd3: How many chars you looking for? |
| 05:51.39 | kd3 | whatever I can save |
| 05:51.52 | End | is this for PTR or something? |
| 05:51.55 | kd3 | ya |
| 05:51.58 | kd3 | I'm at 250/255 right now |
| 05:53.10 | Shirik | kd3: I have an answer |
| 05:53.12 | Shirik | it's awesome |
| 05:53.13 | Shirik | you'll love it |
| 05:54.18 | Shirik | lua> #([[/run local g,a,b,n,t,x,s,g="GetMerchant" for i=1,_G[g.."NumItems"]()do n,t,_,_,_,_,x=_G[g.."ItemInfo"](i)if x then s='' _,_,x=_G[g.."ItemCostInfo"](i)for j=1,x do a,_,b=_G[g.."ItemCostItem"](i,j)s=s..b..a..' 'end end ChatFrame4:AddMessage(n..' '..t..' '..s)end]]) |
| 05:54.24 | lua_bot | Shirik: 260 |
| 05:54.28 | Shirik | crap |
| 05:54.30 | Shirik | it got longer? |
| 05:54.35 | Shirik | :( |
| 05:54.47 | Shirik | I ugess I miscounted |
| 05:55.39 | End | why are you declaring g twice? |
| 05:55.58 | kd3 | if you only do it once the interpreter complains about an invalid = |
| 05:56.11 | End | really, I've never seen that |
| 05:56.22 | kd3 | that last , could be a space and it'd make a bit more sense |
| 05:56.30 | Shirik | uh, the last g was supposed to disappear |
| 05:56.40 | Shirik | I moved it around |
| 05:56.51 | kd3 | or gah, not thinking straight |
| 05:56.55 | End | haha |
| 05:57.34 | Shirik | lua> #([[/run local g,a,b,n,t,x,s="GetMerchant" for i=1,_G[g.."NumItems"]()do n,t,_,_,_,_,x=_G[g.."ItemInfo"](i)if x then s='' _,_,x=_G[g.."ItemCostInfo"](i)for j=1,x do a,_,b=_G[g.."ItemCostItem"](i,j)s=s..b..a..' 'end end ChatFrame4:AddMessage(n..' '..t..' '..s)end]]) |
| 05:57.38 | lua_bot | Shirik: 258 |
| 05:58.00 | Shirik | lua> #([[/run local a,b,n,t,x,s for i=1,GetMerchantNumItems()do n,t,_,_,_,_,x=GetMerchantItemInfo(i)if x then s='' _,_,x=GetMerchantItemCostInfo(i)for j=1,x do a,_,b=GetMerchantItemCostItem(i,j)s=s..b..a..' 'end end ChatFrame4:AddMessage(n..' '..t..' '..s)end]]) |
| 05:58.03 | lua_bot | Shirik: 250 |
| 05:58.09 | Shirik | Why is it so much longer :/ |
| 05:58.12 | Shirik | What am I miscounting |
| 05:58.24 | Shirik | _G[g..""] is shorter than GetMerchant |
| 05:58.30 | Thunder_Child | because you are only a CE and not an NE |
| 05:59.00 | Shirik | oh but we have the overhead of setting it up |
| 05:59.05 | Shirik | blah |
| 05:59.05 | End | yea |
| 05:59.10 | Shirik | I thought my solution was clever :( |
| 05:59.22 | End | it was if you use GetMerchant* more |
| 06:00.41 | Shirik | kd3: Any particular reason for the "local"? |
| 06:00.48 | Shirik | I mean, I'll always be the first one to yell at people for using globals |
| 06:00.55 | Shirik | but in a macro setting... |
| 06:01.05 | kd3 | force of habit |
| 06:01.21 | Shirik | I guess that's the only thing I see that's easily dropped |
| 06:01.45 | End | hn |
| 06:01.47 | End | hm |
| 06:02.10 | Shirik | btw, for the record, since I connected to SSH my internet has not disconnected |
| 06:02.58 | End | I have a theory |
| 06:03.19 | End | wait, no, there'd be a enough traffic |
| 06:03.24 | End | I have another theory |
| 06:03.31 | End | your isp prioritizes ssh |
| 06:03.35 | Shirik | lol. |
| 06:03.38 | End | prioritizes(sp?) |
| 06:03.39 | batbot | End, prioritizes is correct. |
| 06:03.39 | ScytheBlade1 | or rather hates irc |
| 06:03.50 | Shirik | I could see an isp downgrading ssh traffic |
| 06:03.55 | Shirik | because they can't see it |
| 06:03.59 | Shirik | not prioritizing it |
| 06:03.59 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Away (n=TC@cpe-76-169-229-41.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 06:04.27 | End | I've heard people say they increase the priority, since people tend to do "important" stuff with it |
| 06:04.39 | bleeter | sure it's not ClientAliveInterval 30 |
| 06:04.43 | bleeter | ClientAliveCountMax 1000 |
| 06:04.45 | bleeter | or similar? |
| 06:04.49 | ScytheBlade1 | However, I can totally see people hating on IRC connections |
| 06:04.58 | Shirik | I totally can see hating IRC connections too |
| 06:05.01 | End | yeah |
| 06:05.06 | End | IRC is filled with nasty people 8-) |
| 06:05.09 | bleeter | or am I misunderstanding where the ssh conntection is taking place |
| 06:05.11 | End | who are up to no good |
| 06:05.20 | bleeter | End: su true, it's got you and me for starters! |
| 06:05.28 | bleeter | s/su/so/ |
| 06:05.40 | ScytheBlade1 | bleeter: his straight to freenode disconnects, his SSH --> other server + irssi --> freenode does not |
| 06:05.41 | End | :P |
| 06:05.45 | Shirik | but it has angels like me to balance you out |
| 06:06.02 | Shirik | it's actually the entire internet cutting out, btw |
| 06:06.03 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: ah, yeah then prolly ssh->other server, other server has keep alive magics ;) |
| 06:06.13 | Shirik | not just IRC |
| 06:06.18 | Shirik | I lose all internet connectivity |
| 06:06.33 | bleeter | same diff,they hate your irc |
| 06:07.05 | Shirik | Sometimes I really wish how many ISPs would be able to survive if they actually had a SLA |
| 06:07.15 | Shirik | lolcomcast |
| 06:07.25 | End | ^ |
| 06:07.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Most do... though that largely depends on your wallet |
| 06:07.35 | Shirik | When I had an SLA with Brighthouse damn Icould call at 2AM and they sent someone out |
| 06:07.41 | Shirik | right away |
| 06:08.01 | Shirik | That was not something I could afford on my own though :) |
| 06:08.44 | bleeter | most abilities to provide an SLA depend on upstream SLA |
| 06:08.58 | Shirik | I guess SLA wasn't the right term for what I had |
| 06:09.02 | bleeter | and in a place like .au, that's just a total joke so there are, for all intents and purposes, no SLAs |
| 06:09.19 | Shirik | bleeter: Well, with people dropping anchors on internet lines and such |
| 06:09.23 | Shirik | lol |
| 06:09.30 | Shirik | I still can't believe that happened |
| 06:10.41 | Shirik | Ok, random rant |
| 06:11.07 | Shirik | who the hell came up with this brilliant idea of making an alarm clock whom is programmed such that if the alarm is set less than one hour in the future, it applies to the next day |
| 06:11.14 | bleeter | Shirik: happens more often than you think, however there are a few places on the planet where lack of redundancy, or redundancy available but already overloaded, cause an issue |
| 06:11.35 | bleeter | Shirik: wut.. say that again so I'm sure I'm not on acid or sumthing |
| 06:11.44 | Shirik | I'm serious |
| 06:11.56 | Shirik | I missed raid today because I decided to take a nap, and set the alarm to 45 minutes later |
| 06:12.09 | Shirik | when it didn't wake me up, I decided to try to reproduce it to see if I slept through it |
| 06:12.14 | Shirik | and sure ennough, that's how it works |
| 06:12.26 | Shirik | I haven't actually figured out that it's exactly one hour, that's just an estimate based on available data |
| 06:14.28 | Cairenn | awwwww! http://ihasahotdog.com/2009/07/07/cute-puppy-pictures-i-pup/ |
| 06:15.16 | Corrodias | i can sleep through an alarm pretty easily if i'm really tired and it catches me in the middle of a dream cycle |
| 06:15.54 | Shirik | Either I don't have dreams or don't ever remember them |
| 06:16.10 | Shirik | I should say "rarely" there |
| 06:16.12 | Shirik | not never |
| 06:16.19 | Shirik | sleep is very boring for me |
| 06:16.34 | Shirik | In all honesty I wish sleep didn't exist; it's a flaw of humanity that reduces productivity significantly |
| 06:16.45 | ScytheBlade1 | You know, Shirik |
| 06:16.47 | Corrodias | lucky bastard. although i must admit yesterday's dream that i remember wasn't so bad. it involved flying away from a weird monster bird... but not in a scary way. i was taking "screenshots". |
| 06:16.50 | ScytheBlade1 | You're somewhat insane |
| 06:16.54 | Shirik | :( |
| 06:16.56 | Shirik | why |
| 06:17.28 | Shirik | like look |
| 06:17.32 | Shirik | if I didn't have to sleep |
| 06:17.35 | Shirik | I could spend 12 hours at work |
| 06:17.39 | Shirik | and still have 12 hours to myself |
| 06:17.40 | ScytheBlade1 | as someone who has -never- slept even a little bit well, |
| 06:17.42 | ScytheBlade1 | w |
| 06:17.42 | ScytheBlade1 | t |
| 06:17.43 | ScytheBlade1 | f |
| 06:17.45 | ScytheBlade1 | YOU ARE BROKEN |
| 06:17.47 | Warcraft3 | omg :/ u r insane |
| 06:18.12 | Shirik | Obviously if sleep wasn't necessary it wouldn't feel bad to not sleep |
| 06:18.19 | Shirik | that's a natural correlation |
| 06:18.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Then let me state one thing, re: "flaw of humanity" |
| 06:18.55 | bleeter | hmmm http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/08/2620225.htm |
| 06:19.09 | kd3 | End, Shirik: Output of that macro earlier: http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Kaydeethree/Macros#Vendor_info |
| 06:19.12 | Shirik | aha! that's what it is! |
| 06:19.13 | ScytheBlade1 | There is significant research stating that for most (99%) people, sleeping is required to keep living |
| 06:19.23 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: Alt+left arrow/Alt+right arrow |
| 06:19.37 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: Well... yeah |
| 06:19.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: 3D3D3D3D3D3C3C3C3C3C <-- left x4, right x4 |
| 06:19.54 | Shirik | uh |
| 06:19.58 | Shirik | try harder |
| 06:20.04 | ScytheBlade1 | 3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C3C |
| 06:20.05 | Duman | blargh |
| 06:20.19 | End | is your term type correct? |
| 06:20.33 | Shirik | Anyway, I totally realize that sleeping is required |
| 06:20.35 | Shirik | to live |
| 06:20.40 | Shirik | I'm saying that's a flaw of our species |
| 06:20.40 | ScytheBlade1 | TERM=xterm |
| 06:20.41 | End | and also |
| 06:20.49 | End | kd3: yeah, that's about what I figured it'd work |
| 06:20.51 | TC-Away | rem is, i not so sure about sleeping |
| 06:20.53 | End | but it doesn't work on live ;p |
| 06:20.56 | Shirik | If it could be corrected so that it would not be necessary to live, then we'd be happy |
| 06:21.01 | Shirik | or rather, I'd be happy |
| 06:21.12 | kd3 | make sure you've got a chatframe4? |
| 06:21.14 | End | Shirik: through ssh or putty? |
| 06:21.21 | Shirik | putty |
| 06:21.21 | End | it's blowing up on x |
| 06:21.24 | End | err |
| 06:21.35 | End | ScytheBlade1: through ssh or putty? |
| 06:21.39 | End | I fail |
| 06:21.46 | ScytheBlade1 | ssh |
| 06:21.49 | End | it doesn't help you're both talking about the same thing |
| 06:21.51 | Shirik | let me try ssh |
| 06:21.56 | End | ssh works for me |
| 06:21.57 | ScytheBlade1 | shirik is through putty |
| 06:22.05 | End | oh |
| 06:22.05 | ScytheBlade1 | konsole --> ssh --> screen --> irssi |
| 06:22.10 | End | I' |
| 06:22.15 | End | I'm using gnome-terminal though |
| 06:22.19 | Shirik | !!!!! |
| 06:22.21 | ScytheBlade1 | shouldn't really matter |
| 06:22.24 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: is using kd3? |
| 06:22.26 | Shirik | er |
| 06:22.28 | Shirik | kde |
| 06:22.31 | kd3 | >.< |
| 06:22.32 | ScytheBlade1 | always. |
| 06:22.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:22.42 | Thunder_Child | lol |
| 06:23.00 | Shirik | I thought you hated kde |
| 06:23.02 | End | ok |
| 06:23.03 | ScytheBlade1 | http://aboveaverageurl.com/.images/2009/07/fedora-desktop.png http://aboveaverageurl.com/.images/2009/07/kde4-desktop.png |
| 06:23.04 | End | let's see |
| 06:23.06 | End | no |
| 06:23.07 | ScytheBlade1 | wrong |
| 06:23.10 | End | works in konsole as well |
| 06:23.12 | Shirik | <3 |
| 06:23.16 | End | hrm |
| 06:23.17 | Shirik | kde4 is win |
| 06:23.20 | ScytheBlade1 | kde is the epic and the win in DEs |
| 06:23.29 | Shirik | I just wish my windows key worked for it |
| 06:23.41 | ScytheBlade1 | erm, if it doesn't, you're pretty broke |
| 06:23.44 | ScytheBlade1 | End: don't sweat it |
| 06:23.47 | Shirik | :/ |
| 06:23.49 | ScytheBlade1 | End: I prefer alt+# anyway |
| 06:24.02 | End | FINE |
| 06:24.05 | End | be that way |
| 06:24.06 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 06:24.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Well IF YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD |
| 06:24.11 | End | crush my curiousity |
| 06:24.14 | ScytheBlade1 | FINE THEN |
| 06:24.15 | ScytheBlade1 | GO FOR IT |
| 06:24.30 | End | Well, I think I'd have to ask for a lot of details because I'm not really sure where the problem would be :P |
| 06:24.40 | Shirik | maybe I should add an AI module to Shiibot to detect overuse of caps :P |
| 06:24.49 | End | Shirik: FINE |
| 06:24.57 | End | and I use alt+# |
| 06:25.05 | End | I didn't know it existed until Shirik mentioned it |
| 06:25.33 | Shirik | I join my channels in a particular order and I tend to have meaning behind "next" and "previous" |
| 06:25.37 | Thunder_Child | BUT SHIRIK, CAPS IS CRUSIE CONTROL FOR WIN! |
| 06:25.44 | Shirik | CRUSIE |
| 06:25.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Thunder_Child: stop that |
| 06:25.47 | End | I usually jump to which one is active |
| 06:25.52 | Thunder_Child | yes that |
| 06:25.56 | Shirik | me crusie |
| 06:26.05 | End | tom crusie |
| 06:26.16 | ScytheBlade1 | All I really know, is that this channel is 5 |
| 06:26.18 | Shirik | did he die recently? |
| 06:26.23 | ScytheBlade1 | alt+5 and I'm here |
| 06:26.28 | Shirik | no it's not, it's 21 |
| 06:26.30 | Shirik | 2* |
| 06:26.37 | End | it's 2 for me too |
| 06:26.44 | Shirik | and besides, what happens if you have more than 8 channels? |
| 06:26.45 | Thunder_Child | for some one that did it twice ScytheBlade1, you really dont have the moral stance to tell me to stop |
| 06:27.18 | ScytheBlade1 | There's a difference - yours was simply to agitate Shirik |
| 06:27.33 | Thunder_Child | which is quite valid |
| 06:27.44 | Shirik | as opposed to every other time people are agitating me? |
| 06:27.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-153-219-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 06:27.52 | ScytheBlade1 | THOUGH PERHAPS THAT IS A GOOD IDEA IN HINDSIGHT |
| 06:28.06 | Shirik | I'm sure I can go back like 30 minutes in the logs and find an example |
| 06:28.13 | Shirik | Actually I can't because of my internet |
| 06:28.18 | Shirik | but if my internet didn't suck |
| 06:28.50 | Thunder_Child | i dunno, fingering Shirik is more fun but less...social |
| 06:28.57 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 06:28.58 | Thunder_Child | as a form of annoyance |
| 06:29.12 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm going to wipe that from my memory |
| 06:29.13 | ScytheBlade1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:29.15 | ScytheBlade1 | And sleep |
| 06:29.29 | Thunder_Child | sweet, i managed to disturb you as well |
| 06:29.37 | ScytheBlade1 | yes well that isn't hard |
| 06:29.39 | ScytheBlade1 | poofs |
| 06:29.48 | Thunder_Child | i'm just glad the lady in charge didnt see that |
| 06:30.31 | Shirik | Cairenn: Thunder_Child is touching me in inappropriate places |
| 06:30.50 | Thunder_Child | i hate you Shirik |
| 06:31.00 | Shirik | I'm not actually sure she knows what fingering is, actually >.> |
| 06:31.10 | Shirik | in the computer sense, of course |
| 06:31.28 | Thunder_Child | she does have experiance with irc |
| 06:31.37 | Shirik | but it's not really an IRC thing |
| 06:31.40 | Shirik | it's a UNIX thing |
| 06:32.21 | Cairenn | i r dum |
| 06:32.46 | Thunder_Child | indeed, it was one of the origional forms of exploration |
| 06:33.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Zuz666 (n=Zuz666@195.58.20.25) |
| 06:35.35 | Shirik | hi bye |
| 06:37.23 | Shirik | so like, in a command "./foo > bar" |
| 06:37.31 | bleeter | touches Shirik with noodly goodness |
| 06:37.34 | Shirik | is there a way to prevent buffering? |
| 06:38.07 | Shirik | One significant problem that's been bothering me with Shiibot is its logs don't really show up if I'm following them with tail -f until about 10 minutes later |
| 06:39.08 | Thunder_Child | just like every other man, you want it right now |
| 06:40.08 | Shirik | well I don't even know what man page that would go under |
| 06:40.26 | Shirik | I've done some googling and determined that stdout is default fully buffered except for ttys where it's line-buffered |
| 06:40.30 | Shirik | but see no way of overriding that |
| 06:41.11 | End | you can |
| 06:41.27 | End | maybe I can find how |
| 06:41.37 | End | What's Shiibot written in? |
| 06:41.45 | End | (I fear I know the answer) |
| 06:41.51 | MentalPower | lua probably |
| 06:42.10 | End | that's what I think it is |
| 06:42.42 | End | oh, is Shiibot spitting output to stdout, and then you redir to file? |
| 06:43.18 | Shirik | yes, it spits it out to stdout, and shiibot is in Lua |
| 06:43.30 | Shirik | specifically so I can change code on the fly |
| 06:44.42 | Shirik | anyway, I run the process via "nohup ./core.lua &" |
| 06:44.52 | Shirik | nohup takes stdout and appends it to nohup.out |
| 06:45.07 | Shirik | nohup's man page says nothing about buffering though |
| 06:45.56 | bleeter | Shirik: stdout is just a file, so the issue is really one of file buffering. fix that, fix stdout buffering ;) |
| 06:46.35 | End | I think you'd have to do setbuf(stdout, NULL); |
| 06:46.37 | batrick | !g opengroup setbuf |
| 06:46.37 | batbot | batrick: setbuf <http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/setbuf.html> |
| 06:46.40 | batrick | Shirik: ^ |
| 06:47.16 | Shirik | but I can't really call that myself :/ |
| 06:47.36 | End | yeah, well, that's why I was afraid you're using lua |
| 06:47.42 | batrick | shirik make a log system that flushes after each message |
| 06:48.19 | batrick | btw nohup is evil, use disown |
| 06:48.56 | End | is disown a part of bash or something? |
| 06:48.59 | batrick | yes |
| 06:49.22 | Shirik | if I did that, I'd end up rewriting shiibot anyway |
| 06:49.25 | Shirik | probably in C++ |
| 06:49.38 | Shirik | there's a lot of things wrong with shiibot simply because of the speed at which I had to write it |
| 06:52.00 | Shirik | batrick: ! |
| 06:52.03 | batrick | ? |
| 06:52.05 | Shirik | Have you looked at C++0x?! |
| 06:52.12 | Shirik | If you don't switch to C++ now I will disown you |
| 06:52.14 | batrick | why would I look at it |
| 06:52.17 | MentalPower | I thought there was a flush() in Lua... |
| 06:52.20 | batrick | link me |
| 06:52.25 | End | is there? |
| 06:52.26 | batrick | there is |
| 06:52.33 | batrick | !lua io.flush |
| 06:52.33 | batbot | batrick: > function: 0x6f1990 |
| 06:52.43 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B0x |
| 06:53.01 | batrick | I'm hoping the new ISO C standard for 2009 isn't shit |
| 06:53.10 | batrick | there is talk of adding threading support |
| 06:53.12 | Shirik | It's got lambda functions! |
| 06:53.17 | Shirik | and threading support |
| 06:53.44 | Shirik | This whole "concept" idea seems pretty cool, though I'm still wrapping my head around it |
| 06:54.31 | MentalPower | Shirik: I presume you're flushing in Lua after every line? |
| 06:55.04 | batrick | do you want my log library shirik? |
| 06:56.12 | batrick | constexpr looks dumb |
| 06:56.17 | bleeter | ‽‽‽‽‽ |
| 06:56.19 | Shirik | no I'm not MentalPower |
| 06:56.24 | Shirik | but I don't really want to |
| 06:56.31 | Shirik | that would be a lot of work :) |
| 06:56.37 | batrick | how so? |
| 06:56.41 | batrick | are you using prints()? |
| 06:56.47 | Shirik | batrick: that I agree with |
| 06:56.50 | Shirik | and yes, I'm using print |
| 06:56.58 | batrick | hook print and flush stdout |
| 06:57.03 | batrick | bing boom done |
| 06:57.06 | Shirik | hm |
| 06:57.13 | End | ding dong |
| 06:57.17 | Shirik | well anyway, I haven't quite understood the purpose of constexpr yet |
| 06:57.17 | End | beep boop |
| 06:57.32 | Shirik | I haven't been shown an example that can't be done with a true constant |
| 06:57.35 | *** join/#wowuidev nevcairiel (n=hleppkes@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) |
| 06:59.02 | batrick | i really hope the new C standard doesnt fuck up threading |
| 06:59.09 | batrick | they've done some dumb shit in the past |
| 06:59.15 | bleeter | haha |
| 06:59.31 | bleeter | batrick: I think you'll be hoping for a lot |
| 06:59.39 | bleeter | batrick: prior performance.. etc. etc. ;) |
| 06:59.44 | batrick | There needs to be support for fucking with the C stack too. |
| 06:59.53 | batrick | so we can have C coroutines |
| 07:00.06 | Shirik | "fucking with the C stack"? |
| 07:00.17 | batrick | something beyond longjmp |
| 07:00.19 | Shirik | like, you mean popping something off of the stack yourself? |
| 07:00.22 | batrick | no |
| 07:00.27 | batrick | as in switching to a different stack |
| 07:00.38 | Shirik | hm |
| 07:00.46 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@58.20.47.166) |
| 07:00.50 | Shirik | __asm ESP = MyCoolerStack |
| 07:00.50 | Shirik | :D |
| 07:00.58 | batrick | :P |
| 07:01.04 | Shirik | that's a Microsoft extension actually |
| 07:01.16 | Shirik | __asm MOV ESP, MyCoolerStack |
| 07:01.18 | Shirik | would be more accurate |
| 07:01.46 | Shirik | I really hate gcc's inline assembly syntax |
| 07:01.50 | Shirik | like REALLY hate |
| 07:02.07 | bleeter | rewrite it and submit a patch, then! |
| 07:02.24 | batrick | "Null pointer constant" |
| 07:02.27 | batrick | sighs |
| 07:02.27 | Shirik | It would break too much old code |
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| 07:02.39 | Shirik | batrick: That's been asked for for a while |
| 07:02.41 | Shirik | because as it stands now |
| 07:02.45 | Shirik | void* foo = NULL is legal |
| 07:02.53 | Shirik | but void* foo = 1 is not |
| 07:02.59 | Shirik | and NULL is simply defined as 0 |
| 07:03.09 | Shirik | so wtf makes 0 so special |
| 07:03.11 | Thunder_Child | so, what kind of HW problem causes both a system freeze and a loss of video? |
| 07:03.32 | Shirik | Thunder_Child: Bad video driver/hw? |
| 07:03.32 | nevcairiel | isnt NULL defined as (void *)0 ? |
| 07:03.44 | batrick | NULL doesn't have to be defined as 0 afaik |
| 07:03.46 | Shirik | Not in C++ I don't think so |
| 07:03.48 | batrick | it just generally is |
| 07:03.51 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, it usualy doesnt cause a system freeze |
| 07:03.53 | batrick | ya well C++ is dumb |
| 07:04.04 | batrick | I haven't had any trouble with NULL |
| 07:04.34 | Shirik | just rechecked it |
| 07:04.42 | Shirik | C++ defines NULL as 0L |
| 07:04.48 | Shirik | C defines it as (void*)0 |
| 07:04.56 | batrick | jesus |
| 07:04.58 | batrick | GC in C++? |
| 07:05.08 | nevcairiel | no GC |
| 07:05.11 | Shirik | not exactly |
| 07:05.25 | Shirik | they're starting to provide the mechanism to handle it, but not actually GC upfront |
| 07:06.20 | batrick | so they're going Python's way to adding UTF strings? |
| 07:06.23 | batrick | so ugly |
| 07:06.33 | batrick | sorry Shirik |
| 07:06.46 | nevcairiel | didnt they always have wchars? |
| 07:07.59 | Shirik | nope, that's an extension |
| 07:08.12 | *** join/#wowuidev koll (n=tim@c-98-229-123-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 07:08.20 | Shirik | anyway, nevcairiel, the reason behind not defining it as (void*)0, btw, is because of typin |
| 07:08.35 | Shirik | const char* foo = NULL; would be illegal if NULL is (void*)0 |
| 07:08.44 | Shirik | const char* foo = 0; // legal |
| 07:08.56 | Shirik | const char* foo = (void*)0; // illegal - cannot implicitly cast from void* to const char* |
| 07:09.19 | batrick | C doesn't have any problems with that IIRC |
| 07:09.27 | Shirik | C is less strongly typed than C++ |
| 07:09.48 | batrick | that's a dumb error anyway |
| 07:10.21 | batrick | I'm really critical today. I'm going to go do something else. cya Shirk =) |
| 07:10.25 | Shirik | casting from void* to char*? |
| 07:10.30 | Shirik | That's bad! |
| 07:10.38 | nevcairiel | its two pointers, why is it bad? |
| 07:11.02 | ZorbaTHut | because it turns out that typesafety is *really fucking helpful* |
| 07:11.45 | ZorbaTHut | and once you have a void*, you have absolutely no idea what it might or might not actually be, unless you know what it is, in which case why didn't you just use a pointer of that type |
| 07:11.59 | Shirik | if you're going to do something as bad as use a void*, you should be forced to convince the compiler that you know what it is |
| 07:12.37 | nevcairiel | Anyway, in ANSI C its even frowned upon to explictly cast the return of malloc (which is void*) |
| 07:12.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.hjnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 07:12.51 | Shirik | well in C++ we don't use malloc, either :) |
| 07:12.57 | Shirik | new returns the correct type |
| 07:13.34 | nevcairiel | new cheats |
| 07:13.42 | nevcairiel | its a language construct, not a function =P |
| 07:13.48 | Shirik | I disagree! |
| 07:13.50 | Shirik | It is a function! |
| 07:13.53 | Shirik | All operators are functions |
| 07:13.55 | End | it's an operator! |
| 07:14.10 | nevcairiel | at some low-level its implemented as one :P |
| 07:14.10 | ZorbaTHut | new does have some extra non-overridable magic attached to it |
| 07:14.24 | Shirik | sure :P |
| 07:15.11 | nevcairiel | hm you can't reallocate in any way in like realloc can, right? |
| 07:15.25 | Shirik | nope |
| 07:15.41 | Shirik | though most compilers work around that |
| 07:15.56 | Shirik | if they see a delete-new section |
| 07:16.30 | Shirik | or rather, new-delete |
| 07:16.30 | nevcairiel | I guess thats a good point to optimize for a compiler, if it notices that i alloc a new area, move data over, and drop the old one |
| 07:16.31 | Shirik | I guess |
| 07:17.00 | Shirik | in actuality if you're doing that in C++, though, you're probably not using something you should be using in a lot of cases |
| 07:17.04 | Shirik | such as vector |
| 07:17.40 | nevcairiel | I guess |
| 07:17.47 | nevcairiel | although i havent been using C++ for a while |
| 07:17.53 | nevcairiel | out of the whole STL business |
| 07:17.57 | nevcairiel | i'm always stuck wtih C |
| 07:18.36 | Shirik | I'm sorry for your sanity |
| 07:18.37 | nevcairiel | The last thing i wanted to write in C++ i ended up writing in Python because it was so mighty fast to complete =p |
| 07:19.07 | Shirik | I've recently been re-acquainting myself with C++ due to some advanced stuff I need to be working on |
| 07:19.11 | nevcairiel | Although i did apply for an internship which focuses on C++ coding |
| 07:19.13 | Shirik | and I'm realizing how broken Java is |
| 07:19.30 | Shirik | despite how much of a "great OO language" it supposedly is |
| 07:19.37 | Shirik | there's a lot of OO concepts that it flat out breaks |
| 07:19.59 | ZorbaTHut | Java has a lot of huge problems. It wasn't really designed well IMHO, although a lot of its issues probably couldn't have been foreseen all that well |
| 07:20.05 | nevcairiel | There aren't that many languages that don't break any theoretical OO concepts |
| 07:20.35 | ZorbaTHut | some of it was just overconfidence, though. there's a *reason* C++ does not give precise bounds for datatypes, and now Java has multibyte characters because of it |
| 07:20.40 | Shirik | The biggest problem I have is that I find that interfaces should not exist |
| 07:20.55 | Shirik | while interfaces have their place in, say, a UML diagram, it shoudl not be a language construct |
| 07:21.12 | Shirik | There is literally no difference between an interface and an abstract class except in how it is used |
| 07:21.21 | nevcairiel | There is. |
| 07:21.28 | Shirik | C++ capitalizes on that by making interfaces nonexistent |
| 07:21.31 | nevcairiel | In absence of multiple-inheritance, you can still have interfaces |
| 07:21.36 | End | you'd have to introduce true polyinheritance |
| 07:21.38 | Shirik | Well therein lies the problem |
| 07:21.48 | Shirik | I don't see a good reason to drop multiple-inheritance |
| 07:21.54 | nevcairiel | Simplification |
| 07:22.00 | Shirik | "Because people can shoot themselves in the foot" is not a good asnwer |
| 07:22.00 | nevcairiel | It comes with so many problems |
| 07:22.18 | nevcairiel | Alot of languages just decide to drop it, to avoid the common problems |
| 07:22.20 | Shirik | Unfortunately, 99% of Java's decisions were based on "because people could shoot themselves in the foot" |
| 07:22.40 | ZorbaTHut | it turns out that you can't save programmers from themselves |
| 07:22.46 | Shirik | They have KEYWORDS that do NOTHING because of this |
| 07:23.00 | nevcairiel | I agree that a language with multiple-inheritance doesnt need interfaces, but if it doesnt have multiple, interfaces are a good thing. |
| 07:23.01 | Shirik | "We're going to make a 'goto' keyword because people might accidentally use it" |
| 07:23.04 | Shirik | .... what?! |
| 07:23.09 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 07:23.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 07:23.24 | Shirik | well sure, nevcairiel |
| 07:23.31 | nevcairiel | On that note, how does C++ resolve conflicts from multiple-inheritance? |
| 07:23.31 | Shirik | I just don't think that should be a condition that is met :) |
| 07:23.34 | End | java has a goto? |
| 07:23.42 | Shirik | Yes, java has a keyword called 'goto' |
| 07:24.09 | End | How does that keep people from shooting themselves in the foot? |
| 07:24.19 | nevcairiel | it probably is a void funciton =P |
| 07:24.49 | ZorbaTHut | end, it has a "goto" keyword. use of this keyword in any position is an error. :P |
| 07:24.57 | End | oh |
| 07:25.01 | End | strange |
| 07:25.09 | bleeter | maybe they put it in there when they had that whack idea of writing drivers with java |
| 07:25.25 | Shirik | there's another keyword like that too |
| 07:25.27 | Shirik | I forget what it is |
| 07:25.31 | End | only reason I could see to do that is in case they decided to implement it |
| 07:26.02 | Shirik | ah right |
| 07:26.06 | Shirik | "const" is also a keyword |
| 07:26.14 | Shirik | which gives an error whenever it is used |
| 07:26.56 | nevcairiel | does it atleast tell you how to do constants right? |
| 07:27.42 | Shirik | not really sure |
| 07:28.57 | Shirik | ./test.java:20: illegal start of expression const int i = 0; |
| 07:28.58 | End | lol |
| 07:29.06 | End | it told me to delete this token |
| 07:29.26 | Shirik | ./test.java:20: not a statement int const = 0; |
| 07:29.42 | End | Syntax error on token "const", delete this token |
| 07:29.49 | Shirik | well that's a bit nicer :) |
| 07:30.17 | bleeter | Google Chrome OS, eh |
| 07:30.31 | Shirik | vim is smart though |
| 07:30.33 | bleeter | http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html |
| 07:30.35 | End | in facy |
| 07:30.38 | End | in fact |
| 07:30.45 | End | anywhere I use const, it tells me to delete this token |
| 07:30.53 | Shirik | Whenever you use "goto" or "const" in a Java file it gets background red, text white |
| 07:30.54 | End | oi, whut |
| 07:30.56 | Shirik | very visible |
| 07:30.59 | End | I'm using the eclipse compiler |
| 07:31.00 | Shirik | like "omgwtfhax gtfo" |
| 07:31.08 | End | eclipse has its own java compiler? |
| 07:31.44 | bleeter | wonders if ChromeOS with run WinMine |
| 07:31.49 | bleeter | s/with/will/ |
| 07:31.58 | End | and I'm using gij as my java interpter |
| 07:31.59 | End | weird |
| 07:32.00 | nevcairiel | I always assumed it does End, since it only requires a JRE and not a JDK |
| 07:32.14 | Shirik | netbooks? |
| 07:32.49 | bleeter | Shirik: smaller hardware driver footprint requirement, I guess |
| 07:33.09 | Shirik | huh |
| 07:33.21 | Shirik | OS that "gets you on the web in seconds" eh? |
| 07:33.49 | bleeter | read between the marketing fluff |
| 07:33.58 | nevcairiel | everyone is running for NetBook OSes now .. they should make ChromeOS a full-blown user-friendly linux distribution |
| 07:34.14 | bleeter | nevcairiel: read my paste |
| 07:34.19 | bleeter | http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html |
| 07:34.30 | bleeter | oh... sorry.. i misunderstood |
| 07:34.38 | bleeter | re-reading your comment, you prolly have.. my bad |
| 07:34.55 | Shirik | I would prefer that ChromeOS not be a linux distribution |
| 07:35.05 | bleeter | Shirik: BSD? |
| 07:35.17 | Shirik | I haven't had enough experience with BSD to answer that |
| 07:35.30 | bleeter | Shirik: well which open source kernel, then? |
| 07:35.39 | Shirik | I don't have an answer for you, just not Linux :) |
| 07:35.47 | nevcairiel | Its not what you call a distribution usually |
| 07:35.53 | nevcairiel | but it does use the linux kernel |
| 07:36.07 | Shirik | did they announce that it will be linux? |
| 07:36.10 | nevcairiel | they are writing a new window manager |
| 07:36.11 | bleeter | depends what's in the patch that they strip stuff out with |
| 07:36.24 | bleeter | "The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel." |
| 07:36.26 | nevcairiel | "The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel. " |
| 07:36.27 | nevcairiel | bah |
| 07:36.28 | nevcairiel | :) |
| 07:36.31 | bleeter | :P |
| 07:36.54 | Shirik | huh, I don't see that in this article |
| 07:36.55 | Shirik | oh well |
| 07:37.08 | bleeter | they'll plug most of it into their services, so you'll just ahve to hope it don't go down |
| 07:37.23 | nevcairiel | google and going down? |
| 07:37.27 | Shirik | that's not really my problem; I just think the Linux kernel is fundamentally broken |
| 07:37.36 | nevcairiel | how so? |
| 07:37.42 | Shirik | it's too monolithic |
| 07:37.48 | bleeter | nevcairiel: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/06/dziuba_google_app_engine/ |
| 07:38.07 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 07:38.13 | bleeter | nevcairiel: while there's hatred there of a previous employer, the point is rather valid whether using Google stack or Amazon |
| 07:38.20 | nevcairiel | i never noticed the google search engine being down, and thats about all i use |
| 07:38.37 | nevcairiel | plus gmail, but only the smtp/pop servers.. :) |
| 07:38.39 | bleeter | relying on 3rd part for app avalability is a bit... flawed... and kinda demands a bit better explanation of downtime than what google give there |
| 07:38.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 07:38.53 | bleeter | nevcairiel: it wasn't search, it was the App Engine stuff |
| 07:39.19 | bleeter | ie, the stuff people 'hire' from google, like amazon s3 whatsit |
| 07:39.29 | Shirik | QNMsome day my internet will stop disconnecting |
| 07:39.42 | Shirik | anyway, look at QNX, there's a good example of what a kernel should be |
| 07:40.05 | Shirik | you can't even tell the difference between drivers and applications |
| 07:40.13 | Shirik | drivers don't even run in kernel mode |
| 07:40.29 | Kalroth | well duh, QNX is a real-time kernel :) |
| 07:40.40 | Shirik | I don't see why you can't take that and move it to a GPOS |
| 07:41.08 | bleeter | I'd rather VxWorks... /shrug |
| 07:42.26 | Shirik | VxWorks got bought out by Intel |
| 07:42.29 | Shirik | you know? |
| 07:42.34 | Shirik | that's going to be interesting |
| 07:42.40 | Shirik | that is, Wind River got bought out |
| 07:42.45 | bleeter | indeed |
| 07:44.19 | bleeter | or minix, that's already open source to start with |
| 07:44.41 | Shirik | QNX is open source :) |
| 07:44.53 | Shirik | well, "can be" is more accurate |
| 07:45.29 | bleeter | only for past 18months :P |
| 07:45.30 | Shirik | open source for non-commercial applications I believe |
| 07:46.13 | krka | nicew |
| 07:46.17 | krka | err |
| 07:46.27 | Shirik | denice krka |
| 07:46.50 | *** join/#wowuidev pb_ee1 (n=nospam@meilleu015869-2.clients.easynet.fr) |
| 07:47.16 | Shirik | anyway |
| 07:47.19 | Shirik | I goes too sleeps now |
| 07:47.21 | Shirik | baibai |
| 07:47.23 | krka | shirik interfaces are pretty awesome in java, i tend to only use them instead of super classes if possible |
| 07:47.29 | Shirik | blah |
| 07:47.33 | Shirik | now you're going to bring this up >< |
| 07:47.39 | bleeter | bwhahahaha |
| 07:47.40 | krka | i read the log |
| 07:47.44 | nevcairiel | haha keep him out of bed =P |
| 07:48.23 | krka | sometimes you miss multiple inheritance, but that's pretty much only when you're using 3rd party code that was designed by drunken parrots |
| 07:48.36 | Shirik | anyway, yes, interfaces in the conceptual sense are good |
| 07:48.55 | Shirik | Inheritance is very bad (I choose to think realization as not inheritance, though it is at the implementation level) |
| 07:49.01 | krka | generally i only use super classes instead of interfaces when i want to share code. but i still use interfaces for those cases too, to present the contract |
| 07:49.04 | Shirik | realization is really a decoupling, not a coupling |
| 07:49.37 | Shirik | I just don't think interfaces should be distinct from abstract classes with no members or defined methods |
| 07:49.52 | krka | so i have InterfaceA, AbstractBaseA and ImplA |
| 07:50.08 | krka | abstractbasea implements interfacea and impla extends abstractbasea |
| 07:51.07 | Shirik | I wish I could show you the class diagram I have from work right now, but that shows fairly well how interfaces should be used, in my mind |
| 07:51.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c178202.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 07:51.19 | krka | as stated, extending multiple abstract classes is trickier than implementing multiple interfaces |
| 07:52.10 | Shirik | C++ seems to do it fine |
| 07:52.23 | krka | c++ does almost nothing fine |
| 07:52.26 | Shirik | there's only one catch: virtual inheritance |
| 07:54.07 | Shirik | I just find it funny that something that literally has no difference in UML except for a stereotype should have completely different constructs in a language |
| 07:54.41 | mikma | ~wowalert |
| 07:54.41 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 07:55.01 | Shirik | in any case, Java abuses inheritance |
| 07:55.17 | Shirik | There is way too much inheritance going on in Java for me to be excited about |
| 07:56.29 | Shirik | And my favorite example of people learning Java and inheritance |
| 07:56.50 | Shirik | "Abstract class: shape. Concrete class: rectangle. Concrete subclass: square" |
| 07:56.59 | Shirik | is also broken |
| 07:57.19 | Shirik | but yes, C++ has its flaws too. I really wish for another language |
| 07:57.31 | Shirik | C# is in the right direction, but also does things wrong |
| 07:57.43 | Shirik | along with the fact that it's running out of english words to use as keywords |
| 07:57.49 | nevcairiel | C# is a marketing thing to steal java peopel =P |
| 08:00.11 | Shirik | what we're really missing is a language that (1) doesn't break OO concepts, and (2) is up-to-date with technology |
| 08:00.28 | *** join/#wowuidev VonhintenHOME` (n=Kiss@c-98-192-131-177.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 08:00.42 | nevcairiel | lets write one! |
| 08:00.59 | Shirik | I feel that both C and C++ are a bit behind the times in that their standard libraries rely too much on old technology. For example, multithreading support is just starting to be considered in standards |
| 08:01.42 | nevcairiel | I should learn D |
| 08:01.50 | nevcairiel | and see how it does stuff |
| 08:01.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0530.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:02.08 | Shirik | Ruby was supposed to be revolutionary |
| 08:02.44 | ZorbaTHut | I feel like C++ is, by quite a large margin, the best high-performance language out there. I also think that high-performance languages are niche languages, and getting nicher |
| 08:03.20 | nevcairiel | I really like Python alot |
| 08:03.22 | ZorbaTHut | especially as optimization gets better and "low-performance scripting languages" start pushing up against C++ or Java's performance |
| 08:03.25 | Shirik | I don't see why it should be a niche language |
| 08:03.42 | Shirik | There's nothing wrong with supporting both managed and unmanaged memory |
| 08:03.52 | Shirik | Thats' another thing I feel is missing in languages |
| 08:03.52 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, high performance is generally coupled with more precise control, which takes programmer time. Generally, programmer time is vastly more important than small amounts of extra CPU used. |
| 08:03.57 | Shirik | C# somewhat touches on that |
| 08:04.15 | bleeter | looks away and tries not to start |
| 08:04.15 | Shirik | I feel if a language supports GC, it should also provide a way to get away from that |
| 08:04.17 | ZorbaTHut | if you could reduce programmer time by 50%, and likewise reduce execution speed by 50%, that would be a huge win for the vast majority of projects. |
| 08:04.33 | Shirik | that way people that wish to use the GC can, and those who wish to avoid it can also |
| 08:05.51 | bleeter | one can always reduce programmer time by stealing other's code, using inappropriate languages, reworking crappy designs etc. doesn't make any particular language better for a job, a job cheaper, or easier, or better at scaling.... raaar... raaar...raaar... |
| 08:05.58 | bleeter | has more flashbacks to the 90's |
| 08:06.00 | bleeter | wait |
| 08:06.01 | bleeter | 80's |
| 08:06.03 | bleeter | oh hell |
| 08:06.13 | ZorbaTHut | bleeter, I'd argue that certain languages can indeed be better for certain jobs than others :) |
| 08:06.14 | krka | what do you mean by java abusing inheritance? |
| 08:06.28 | krka | in the standard library or libraries in general or what? |
| 08:06.54 | bleeter | ZorbaTHut: it's just the same old argument... lemme find the lyrics from that TISM song... |
| 08:07.15 | Shirik | krka: You would have to give me some time to find a concrete example |
| 08:07.22 | krka | or an abstract example |
| 08:07.35 | Shirik | however, I tend to feel that they use inheritence in the incorrect direction a lot of the times, and especially Java programmers do |
| 08:07.46 | Shirik | that people use inheritence to reuse, instead of to be reused |
| 08:07.55 | krka | i can agree that a lot of developers overuse it, but that's hardly the languages fault |
| 08:07.57 | Shirik | I have a Foo that does almost what I want, so I'll make a Bar that extends Foo |
| 08:08.06 | Shirik | no, that's wrong |
| 08:08.39 | Shirik | But thing is, the standard library does this same thing |
| 08:08.59 | krka | any particular part of it you disagree with? |
| 08:09.06 | bleeter | ZorbaTHut: http://bleeter.pastey.net/117216 |
| 08:09.25 | Shirik | I meant "no that's wrong" to my statement |
| 08:09.36 | Shirik | you shouldn't extend something to reuse all of what it has |
| 08:09.45 | Shirik | you should extend something so old code can use what you're about to make |
| 08:09.47 | bleeter | thinks Shirik should read that pastey too :P |
| 08:10.20 | krka | right, for just reusing, it's enough to have an object of that type to ask stuff from |
| 08:10.56 | krka | imo the java standard library has too little interfaces |
| 08:10.58 | Shirik | I feel that the standard library encourages that behavior, and if I had time I could probably show examples of it occuring within the library itself |
| 08:11.07 | krka | InputStream should be an interface, not an abstract class |
| 08:11.08 | Shirik | Hell, the Java standard library itself breaks contracts |
| 08:11.20 | Shirik | There's Map which has a contract |
| 08:11.21 | krka | the collection types mostly got it right though |
| 08:11.36 | Shirik | then certain Map implementations which say right in the javadoc "Actually we break the contract with this implementation, but too bad" |
| 08:11.47 | Shirik | and I'm sitting here like "...wtf" |
| 08:11.57 | krka | for read only maps or something? |
| 08:12.04 | Shirik | I forget what it was |
| 08:12.27 | Shirik | InputStream is a good example, yes |
| 08:12.32 | krka | that's not optimal i agree, but they have a bit of legacy to support, they can't just modify the underlying structure |
| 08:13.35 | Shirik | The #1 thing I hate about Java, though, is special treatment for classes. Sadly, C++0x is going that route too |
| 08:14.13 | Shirik | That is, String gets a + operator, java.lang is imported automatically |
| 08:14.21 | Shirik | C++0x is doing it with its std::initializer_list class |
| 08:15.00 | Shirik | but I guess that's just me being pick |
| 08:15.00 | krka | that's a minor point imo |
| 08:15.01 | Shirik | picky |
| 08:15.09 | Shirik | It just doesn't seem clean |
| 08:15.42 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, I don't have a huge problem with that, because "we have special treatment for these classes" is just another way of saying "we have a built-in language feature that is easiest to define partially in terms of our existing class structure" |
| 08:15.45 | Shirik | I won't go into Java's generic support simply because it's pretty well known it's a bit jacked up |
| 08:16.00 | ZorbaTHut | I do have a problem with Java deciding that operator overloading is obviously useless for everyone, *except* for its string class |
| 08:17.19 | krka | i am glad they didn't copy the retarded operator overloading that c++ has though :) |
| 08:17.22 | Shirik | Maybe if I were to sit down and try to devise a language, I would run into issues saying "oh, so that's why they won't do xxx" |
| 08:17.35 | ZorbaTHut | krka, what's wrong with it? |
| 08:17.46 | Shirik | but really, these are the things I'm missing from a language right now |
| 08:18.12 | Shirik | and I'm sorry I refuse to comply with the status quo; obviously I'm still using C++ and Java because it's what I have right now, and I probably will be for a long time |
| 08:18.23 | Shirik | but I'm still going to complain while there's something wrong |
| 08:18.32 | Shirik | that's how innovation occurs |
| 08:18.51 | ZorbaTHut | I'm pretty much C++ and Lua at this point. it's a sweet combo |
| 08:19.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 08:20.40 | Shirik | I go to sleep now |
| 08:20.47 | Shirik | baibau |
| 08:21.17 | batrick | damn |
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| 08:54.45 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/07/there_can_be_only_one_train_vs.php |
| 08:55.07 | mikma | there's something you don't see everyday |
| 08:57.37 | Cairenn | oh shit! |
| 08:57.55 | Cairenn | not pretty |
| 09:01.29 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/07/id_live_there_amazing_papercra.php |
| 09:04.41 | mikma | wobin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ-l5PlDa-k |
| 09:10.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@79-71-233-162.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:10.47 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (n=Mike@68.38.45.3) |
| 09:11.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 09:17.27 | mikma | wobin: yo yo with yo-yo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL-heHX8QlM |
| 09:19.56 | Zyndrome | http://www.hotsvideos.com/video/2012/Freight-Train-vs-Tornado--Amazing |
| 09:19.57 | Zyndrome | Oo |
| 09:20.32 | mikma | zyndrome: i wonder where have i seen that one before |
| 09:20.43 | Zyndrome | the internets |
| 09:21.07 | Zyndrome | was linked somewhere else on a different site to a different site |
| 09:21.13 | Zyndrome | WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE |
| 09:21.21 | mikma | <1154> <mikma> http://www.geekologie.com/2009/07/there_can_be_only_one_train_vs.php |
| 09:21.24 | mikma | <1219> <Zyndrome> http://www.hotsvideos.com/video/2012/Freight-Train-vs-Tornado--Amazing |
| 09:21.27 | mikma | yeah ^^ |
| 09:32.04 | Wobin | mikma: the alarm clock? |
| 09:32.16 | mikma | wobin: yes, my lord |
| 09:32.18 | Wobin | I bet he made it so that Mom doesn't ask questions when she hears the bed squeaking |
| 09:32.42 | Wobin | "Just waking up, Mooom! Just a bit longer...!" |
| 09:33.00 | mikma | :D |
| 09:34.51 | Fisker | i was hopinh iy would EXPLOOOOOODE |
| 09:34.54 | Fisker | wtf |
| 09:34.58 | Fisker | hoping it* |
| 09:38.02 | Wobin | Fisker: yeah I thought that was a fuel tank |
| 09:38.27 | Zyndrome | incineration surely wakes you up |
| 09:46.35 | Wobin | hm, this movie appear familar to anyone? http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2457/vlcsnap238913.png |
| 09:48.04 | bleeter | Wobin: your family have nightly movie comps or something? |
| 09:49.21 | Zyndrome | it's "Land of Steep Roads" |
| 09:49.33 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-178-171.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 09:50.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellbinder (i=Spellbin@c-ab7ce455.312-21-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:51.40 | Wobin | "And next on Painfully Obvious Movie Names, we're going to watch 'Movie Where Something Goes Terribly Wrong And Someone Dies'" |
| 09:51.41 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-178-171.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) |
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| 09:53.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster` (n=Arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 09:53.37 | Wobin | and also, in the Because They Can category.... http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html |
| 09:53.37 | *** join/#wowuidev ecs (n=ecs@unaffiliated/ecstasia) |
| 09:53.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh_ (n=Srosh@213.39.178.202) |
| 09:54.11 | mikma | old news is old, wobin!!11 |
| 09:54.30 | Wobin | eh, yesterday =) |
| 09:54.46 | Wobin | All my feelings felt so faaar awaaay |
| 09:55.02 | mikma | also, i did read that 2h ago.. hehe |
| 09:55.32 | Wobin | also |
| 09:55.32 | Wobin | Just to clarify, at level 80 players can buy this heirloom item for 1,000 gold and send it to an alt of the same realm, faction and account. The tome can be used to learn Cold Weather Flying at level 68, consuming the tome in the process. |
| 09:55.46 | Wobin | crazy =P |
| 09:55.55 | nevcairiel | i like that |
| 09:56.01 | nevcairiel | maybe i'll finally level my warrior |
| 09:56.03 | nevcairiel | when he can fly |
| 09:56.22 | Wobin | also, they hotfixed Garwal =( |
| 09:56.28 | Wobin | Now he's just a vanity pet |
| 09:56.35 | airtonix | also : [Staff of Facism] < Forces five others to group with you and prevents them from logging off > |
| 09:56.37 | nevcairiel | did they remove yours? |
| 09:56.39 | Wobin | until they hotfix that too |
| 09:56.59 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 09:57.33 | mikma | wobin: garwal as in your worg minion? |
| 09:57.43 | Wobin | yeh |
| 09:57.54 | Wobin | no I still have him |
| 09:57.58 | Wobin | he has no pet skills though |
| 09:58.03 | nevcairiel | oh |
| 09:58.04 | mikma | ^^ |
| 09:58.04 | Wobin | can't be fed, etc |
| 09:58.10 | Aelobin | and does he look like a wolf? |
| 09:58.13 | Wobin | nope |
| 09:58.16 | Wobin | still worgy |
| 09:58.16 | Aelobin | =o |
| 09:58.21 | Wobin | er worgeny |
| 09:58.22 | nevcairiel | going to keep him in the stables? |
| 09:58.25 | Wobin | yeah |
| 09:58.43 | Wobin | this is what I logged into: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/1db13448fbb6abb15d710ea147e29402.jpg |
| 09:59.00 | Wobin | "Hi Mr Wolf..." |
| 09:59.11 | airtonix | nomnomnom |
| 10:00.41 | mikma | wobin: :D |
| 10:01.43 | mikma | where can i find the latest listing of wow icons (as images)? wowwiki doesn't seem to have some of the icons that are in game atm |
| 10:02.04 | nevcairiel | run the addonkit and extract artwotk? |
| 10:02.08 | nevcairiel | *artwork |
| 10:02.18 | mikma | they are .blp? |
| 10:02.24 | jnwhiteh | mikma: uhh |
| 10:02.29 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/artbrowser |
| 10:02.33 | jnwhiteh | does no one use the damn sites I write =) |
| 10:02.41 | Cairenn | nope! :p |
| 10:02.45 | mikma | what sites? |
| 10:02.47 | Aelobin | Wobin: rofl |
| 10:02.57 | nevcairiel | your tools are always so hidden :( |
| 10:02.59 | Aelobin | i'm in your character screen, eating your characters |
| 10:03.10 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: ... they are all listed ont he utils page.. how is that hidden? |
| 10:03.15 | foxlit | mikma: which items? |
| 10:03.22 | mikma | jnwhiteh: now, do a image-listing! like http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:WoW_Icons/Icon_List/Images (warning, heavy) |
| 10:03.24 | nevcairiel | its not red and blinking |
| 10:03.24 | foxlit | s/items/images/ |
| 10:03.36 | mikma | foxlit: there's this skull that can be looted, but it's not listed in wowwiki |
| 10:03.44 | jnwhiteh | mikma: I plan to |
| 10:03.49 | mikma | it's questitem in icecrown (solution solution or something) |
| 10:03.49 | foxlit | PTR or live? |
| 10:03.56 | jnwhiteh | but those PNGs are really lightweight :P |
| 10:03.57 | mikma | live |
| 10:04.07 | foxlit | Ah. I can fix that, then. |
| 10:04.25 | airtonix | <jnwhiteh rages> |
| 10:04.47 | mikma | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43609 |
| 10:04.59 | mikma | don't see that one in there |
| 10:05.20 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/File:INV_Misc_Bone_HumanSkull_02.png boo? |
| 10:06.12 | mikma | listed? |
| 10:06.21 | *** join/#wowuidev ilovemrdoe (n=ddd@88-104-34-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:06.28 | mikma | all i see is HumanSkull_01 |
| 10:06.46 | foxlit | And that's all there is. The listing is incomplete; but the image is around. |
| 10:06.58 | Fisker | slaps mikma around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:06.59 | mikma | yeah :) |
| 10:07.02 | foxlit | So qq for us -- that page needs an update :( |
| 10:07.10 | mikma | is ignoring you |
| 10:07.18 | mikma | foxlit: QQ |
| 10:07.42 | foxlit | But clearly the solution to your problem is to get a mac :) |
| 10:07.55 | Wobin | http://www.wowwiki.com/File:INV_Armor_Helm_Plate_Naxxramas_RaidWarrior_C_01.png always confused me as an icon |
| 10:07.59 | Wobin | It looks like a bird |
| 10:08.29 | mikma | a sick, twisted bird |
| 10:08.57 | Wobin | yeah =( |
| 10:09.24 | Fisker | mikma that's in red text |
| 10:09.25 | nevcairiel | you have to have alot of imagination to see a bird there |
| 10:09.45 | foxlit | Nah, the horns are crappy. |
| 10:10.12 | mikma | fisker: ok, new try with name not colored: |
| 10:10.19 | mikma | is ignoring you |
| 10:10.37 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/06/michael_jackson_singer_dancer.php |
| 10:20.51 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/artbrowser/Icons.list |
| 10:22.45 | Wobin | mikma: that's cool |
| 10:24.34 | *** join/#wowuidev sacarasc (i=sacarasc@cpc3-kemp3-0-0-cust48.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:27.01 | Wobin | oh. awesome |
| 10:27.02 | Wobin | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/07/07/xmen%20affairs%202.jpg |
| 10:28.05 | Wobin | -everyone's- slept with Wolverine =P |
| 10:28.16 | Zyndrome | yup |
| 10:28.32 | ZorbaTHut | yeah wolverine is a serious pimp |
| 10:28.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 10:28.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 10:29.42 | Zyndrome | probably the sideburns |
| 10:36.31 | mikma | wobin: hah |
| 10:37.57 | mikma | industrial: spotify:track:4oiTO50P8t1lBl0TL0m5r9 |
| 10:40.33 | bleeter | Wobin: spics n specks time! |
| 10:40.39 | Wobin | woo |
| 10:41.08 | Wobin | bleeter: btw |
| 10:41.14 | Wobin | have you seen the new vegemite? |
| 10:41.47 | bleeter | nope |
| 10:42.00 | bleeter | any good? |
| 10:42.17 | bleeter | Wobin: and when are you gunna idle in ##australia? |
| 10:42.31 | mikma | ewwwwwwwgemite |
| 10:42.45 | Wobin | hm |
| 10:42.50 | Wobin | I dunno, I'm about to try it later |
| 10:43.00 | Wobin | it's... vegemite and cream cheese mix... |
| 10:43.04 | Wobin | I'm skeptical =P |
| 10:43.15 | mikma | where can we send "RIP" postcards? |
| 10:43.29 | bleeter | Wobin: cream cheese, eh? I guess cheese was too obvious ;) |
| 10:46.26 | mikma | wobin: is Dancing Rune Weapon a buff you can detect on target? |
| 10:46.56 | Wobin | mikma: it's technically a pet |
| 10:47.08 | mikma | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49028 |
| 10:47.21 | mikma | see the buff part :P |
| 10:47.59 | mikma | don't really wanna respec my dk just to see is it a detectable buff.. hehe |
| 10:50.07 | Wobin | oh |
| 10:50.13 | Wobin | I never looked =) |
| 10:50.19 | Wobin | it wouldn't be the target, it'd be the dk |
| 10:50.21 | Wobin | probably |
| 10:50.34 | foxlit | But if you care, why not use the combat log? |
| 10:50.35 | Wobin | just start a premade dk on the ptr =P |
| 10:51.17 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 10:51.21 | Legorol | morning! |
| 10:51.28 | Wobin | good morning Mr Rol |
| 10:51.42 | Legorol | WTB EU PTR 10048 to 10072 patch |
| 10:52.14 | Fisker | WTS EU PTR 10048 to 10072 patch |
| 10:52.31 | Legorol | i have a slightly used, second-hand 10026 to 100048 patch, will you trade that in? |
| 10:52.43 | Legorol | on a serious note, Fisker, any way you could get the patch to me? |
| 10:52.50 | Legorol | the downloader is failing here for me |
| 10:53.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 10:53.18 | nevcairiel | start the launcher instead of the client |
| 10:53.20 | nevcairiel | and it works |
| 10:53.27 | Legorol | unfortunately not, nevcairiel |
| 10:53.38 | nevcairiel | that did it for me :P |
| 10:53.45 | Legorol | PTR patches are traditionally only downloadable via peer-to-peer and not direct HTTP |
| 10:53.50 | Legorol | but i can't use peer-to-peer here |
| 10:54.04 | Legorol | this has been a problem for me ever since PTRs existed ;) |
| 10:54.23 | Fisker | got a rapidshit up in a few minutes |
| 10:54.44 | Legorol | you are a star (for once)! |
| 10:54.59 | Legorol | ~Fisker++ |
| 10:55.03 | Fisker | fu |
| 10:55.15 | Legorol | hm, purl not around? |
| 10:55.23 | Legorol | oh there he is |
| 10:55.30 | Legorol | ~botsnack |
| 10:55.30 | purl | Legorol: thanks |
| 10:55.39 | Fisker | he doesn't respond to karma updates |
| 10:55.41 | Fisker | ~karma Fisker |
| 10:55.41 | purl | fisker has karma of -9 |
| 10:55.46 | Fisker | You're ruining it |
| 10:55.52 | Legorol | you are not doing too great, are you |
| 10:55.58 | Legorol | only -9? not even two digits? |
| 10:56.06 | Fisker | I have you to thank for that |
| 10:56.14 | Legorol | :*( |
| 10:56.29 | Fisker | yeah you better have an anus in your face |
| 10:56.54 | Fisker | http://rapidshare.com/files/253359806/WoW-0.2.0.10048-to-0.2.0.10072-enGB-patch.exe.html |
| 11:03.26 | Legorol | thanks, downloading it now |
| 11:11.50 | Wobin | hm |
| 11:12.24 | Wobin | anyone recall that comic where they go "You win the game!" then they get into a fight with an Lightning Enchanted Hogger ala Diablo? |
| 11:12.49 | Legorol | Fisker: awesome, worked. Do you prefer a ++ or a --? |
| 11:37.32 | bleeter | Legorol, Fisker: purl is a she |
| 11:49.01 | bleeter | http://users.on.net/~bleeter/code/compile_this.c |
| 11:55.10 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l0c6pBNPCI&feature=related |
| 11:55.11 | Wobin | ahaha |
| 11:55.13 | Wobin | I love Bas |
| 11:55.16 | Wobin | he's my hero |
| 11:55.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 11:58.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@80.61.89.192) |
| 12:05.25 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y |
| 12:05.33 | Wobin | Just the sound effects are fantastic |
| 12:06.48 | mikma | so, crowdcontrol spells that have castingtime, polymorph, cyclone, entangling roots.. what more? |
| 12:07.29 | nevcairiel | fear |
| 12:07.35 | nevcairiel | from locks |
| 12:07.43 | mikma | oh, good one |
| 12:07.58 | nevcairiel | frog from shamans mabye? |
| 12:08.02 | nevcairiel | dunno if it has a casting time |
| 12:08.29 | nevcairiel | banish on poor druid trees =( |
| 12:08.36 | Wobin | he's so entertainingly violent |
| 12:08.46 | Wobin | hex has a cast time |
| 12:09.01 | Wobin | hunter fear |
| 12:09.03 | Wobin | on druids |
| 12:09.07 | Wobin | scare beast |
| 12:09.14 | nevcairiel | sleep from druids on druids =P |
| 12:09.20 | Grum | haha |
| 12:09.52 | mikma | good, good.. |
| 12:10.50 | Grum | mikma: what will you name it? :D |
| 12:11.02 | mikma | grum: cairenn named it OhSnap |
| 12:11.22 | Grum | because OhShit was to harsh? :D |
| 12:11.31 | Wobin | what's it do? |
| 12:11.41 | mikma | OhCrap was the first suggestion, which changed to OhSnap in 5 seconds~ |
| 12:11.41 | Grum | report pvp spellcasts |
| 12:11.53 | Grum | pvp relevant spellcasts |
| 12:11.57 | mikma | wobin: http://wow.reaktio.net/WoWScrnShot_070709_190713.jpg |
| 12:12.00 | Grum | + cooldowns (?) |
| 12:12.12 | mikma | nope, for cooldowns there's Afflicted |
| 12:13.43 | Grum | mm i still want arena-target frames somehow :D |
| 12:13.52 | mikma | Gladius |
| 12:14.11 | Grum | yeah but the target of the arena[1-5] frames :) |
| 12:14.25 | mikma | Gladius |
| 12:14.37 | Grum | mm couldn't find that o.IO |
| 12:15.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 12:15.32 | airtonix | mind control has a cast time |
| 12:15.38 | Grum | ah yeah |
| 12:15.40 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (n=bluspace@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 12:15.46 | Grum | howl of terror as well |
| 12:15.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 12:15.52 | airtonix | shakles too, which yo ucan use on dk pets |
| 12:16.07 | airtonix | and risen allies |
| 12:16.09 | Fisker | slaps Grum around a bit with a large trout |
| 12:16.20 | Grum | fists Fisker with a large trout. |
| 12:16.23 | Fisker | fu |
| 12:16.28 | Grum | FUFUFUFUFUUUUUU |
| 12:16.38 | bluspacecow | fu fu ? |
| 12:16.49 | Grum | Fisker is wearing a TUTUTUTUTUTTTTUUU |
| 12:16.53 | airtonix | fiskers eyes glaze over |
| 12:16.58 | bluspacecow | ~drink Grum |
| 12:16.59 | purl | drinks Grum in one swig, turns blue, green, and ultraviolet, and then vomits Grum across the room |
| 12:17.12 | Grum | whiii i can see my house from up here |
| 12:18.28 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi (n=chris@75.75.186.99) |
| 12:19.55 | mikma | wobin: http://wow.reaktio.net/trackedspells.lua i know you are good at stuff like this, are these ok? ;) |
| 12:21.29 | Wobin | does polymorph still regenerate? |
| 12:21.37 | Grum | yes afaik |
| 12:21.48 | Kalroth | I don't think so |
| 12:21.59 | Kalroth | also |
| 12:22.00 | Kalroth | -- Anti-Magic Shell |
| 12:22.00 | Kalroth | [48707] = "75% Shield", |
| 12:22.04 | Wobin | You'll want to be specific with the banish/scare/hibernate |
| 12:22.09 | Kalroth | should be "75% Magic Shield", no? |
| 12:22.15 | Wobin | as in "Tree Druid" or "Feral" |
| 12:22.37 | mikma | kalroth: trying to keep the comments as short as possible, but that's one way of doing it |
| 12:22.43 | Wobin | Kalroth: technically the tier gear gives physical too, no? Not that they'll likely be wearing it |
| 12:22.45 | mikma | need to ask what does jnwhiteh think about that |
| 12:22.56 | Kalroth | mikma: well it depends on the context of course |
| 12:22.57 | Fisker | Wobin i believe they do in pvp |
| 12:22.58 | Fisker | but not in pve |
| 12:23.15 | Kalroth | Wobin: yeah, but that's just 20% or so, no? |
| 12:23.23 | Fisker | or actually |
| 12:23.26 | Wobin | yeah, something like that, not sure precisely |
| 12:23.37 | Wobin | Fisker: at least not when cast on players in pve |
| 12:23.47 | Fisker | it's probably more accurate to say that polymorphs cast by mobs don't regenerate, but polymorphs cast by players do |
| 12:23.48 | nevcairiel | Hm, when exactly was the combat-shutdown when logging in? is P_E_W still save? |
| 12:23.50 | Adys | So |
| 12:23.53 | Grum | mikma: dont forget the priest hymns |
| 12:23.57 | Adys | who's been whining about chrome OS yet? |
| 12:24.05 | mikma | grum: which one and what about them? :O |
| 12:24.07 | Fisker | i said "old" |
| 12:24.14 | Wobin | Adys: what's to whine about? |
| 12:24.21 | Wobin | It sounds WONDERFUL! |
| 12:24.27 | Wobin | Finally I can have an OS that does.. er.. |
| 12:24.29 | Wobin | um |
| 12:24.30 | Wobin | . |
| 12:24.32 | Grum | well divine hymn does ~15-25k healing on every member |
| 12:24.32 | Adys | Dunno, as soon as google does something everyone usually goes OMFFGPRIVACYYYY |
| 12:24.40 | Grum | and is interruptable |
| 12:24.57 | Adys | Wobin: you mean like a linux distribution that doesnt suck? |
| 12:25.02 | Wobin | pft |
| 12:25.07 | Grum | sort of like .. what its called from a druid the *massive* aoe heal, tranq orso? O.o |
| 12:25.10 | Fisker | but it is omg privacy Adys |
| 12:25.14 | Wobin | tranquility? |
| 12:25.16 | Adys | it's going to be amazing |
| 12:25.26 | bluspacecow | *waggles finger in ear* |
| 12:25.28 | airtonix | grum, tranquility is party only isnt it? |
| 12:25.29 | bluspacecow | Chrome OS ? |
| 12:25.30 | Fisker | It's going to be niché |
| 12:25.36 | bluspacecow | as in operating system ? |
| 12:25.39 | Fisker | i just hope android takes over the mobile market |
| 12:25.40 | Adys | yes |
| 12:25.43 | Grum | airtonix: hmm dunno tbh |
| 12:25.43 | Wobin | I think it's area based? |
| 12:25.52 | Adys | bluspacecow: http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2009-07-08-n47.html |
| 12:25.52 | airtonix | i think it is only party |
| 12:25.53 | Grum | Divine Hymn is area based |
| 12:25.56 | Wobin | raid wide, but within a radius |
| 12:26.07 | Grum | 30 yards and then the lowest 5 targets orso |
| 12:26.14 | Grum | for 5 ticks of ~3k healing orso |
| 12:26.22 | Wobin | In any case, since this is for PVP, you're more likely to be affected by it if your partner casts it |
| 12:26.31 | bluspacecow | http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html |
| 12:26.38 | airtonix | becuase i've had missing health and been standing right next to a druid channeling tranquility , got nothing |
| 12:26.57 | Grum | well, lets just say if you are listing spells you need to interrupt -- the 2 priest hymns are some you dont want to miss |
| 12:27.06 | Grum | and for example shadowfiend, innervate, drinking |
| 12:27.12 | airtonix | penance |
| 12:27.16 | Wobin | ah yeah, only party |
| 12:27.25 | Grum | airtonix: too small an effect |
| 12:27.30 | airtonix | hardly |
| 12:27.30 | Wobin | you can't really 'interrupt' shadowfiend |
| 12:27.34 | Wobin | you have to kill it, no? |
| 12:27.39 | airtonix | my penance heals for 16k |
| 12:27.40 | Grum | no but knowing it spawned -- you can kill it |
| 12:27.44 | foxlit | Run away, little girl, run away! |
| 12:28.03 | Grum | airtonix: mikma is looking for important cooldown things, those would fall under it imho :) |
| 12:28.21 | Grum | i pop div hymn every 5v5 i do O.o |
| 12:28.31 | Grum | especially against !@#(!@ cleaveteams |
| 12:28.39 | airtonix | penance is channeled, has a 6sec cooldown and has a chance to proc a shield three times throughout the channel |
| 12:29.21 | Wobin | 10 sec cooldown unglyphed? |
| 12:29.26 | Wobin | and untalented |
| 12:29.33 | airtonix | think so yes |
| 12:29.33 | Grum | 8s cooldown isnt it? |
| 12:30.06 | airtonix | in anycase its a heal that will revers all your hard work of removing health |
| 12:30.17 | Wobin | and glyph gives another 2seconds |
| 12:30.32 | airtonix | and you have plenty of time to interrupt it if you are paying attention |
| 12:30.34 | Wobin | Aspiration gives the 8sec cooldown |
| 12:30.54 | Wobin | 3 seconds is a long time =\ |
| 12:31.10 | airtonix | simply taking the priests target out of range from penance or forcing the priest to move will interupt it |
| 12:34.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 12:34.23 | Grum | or tossing/hitting the priest will at least take heal away |
| 12:35.17 | airtonix | so many options to interupt it |
| 12:35.25 | Wobin | I saw a tactic for Razorgore the other day. "Tank the adds near the cliff face, and have a shaman/boomkin thunderstorm/typhoon them off the edge" |
| 12:35.29 | Wobin | I wonder if that'd work =P |
| 12:35.46 | Grum | airtonix: a single hit is enough to drop 25% of the casting time and you only 'shoot' once |
| 12:35.57 | airtonix | hilarious, since npcs have this amazing skill unavilable to players called 'mountain climbing' |
| 12:36.03 | Wobin | Grum: There are nasal delivery systems nowadays that can fix that |
| 12:36.18 | foxlit | airtonix: only if there's a mountain to climb, really. |
| 12:36.21 | mikma | so far it looks like "Drink" is the only one making to the list ^^ |
| 12:36.28 | airtonix | lol |
| 12:36.35 | Grum | ha! i added something! |
| 12:36.37 | Fisker | BRAIN FREEZE |
| 12:36.39 | nevcairiel | heh they fixed that the Call of Air spells ignored the cooldown on totems |
| 12:36.40 | nevcairiel | too bad |
| 12:36.40 | Grum | but gladius already has that |
| 12:37.19 | mikma | yeah, the idea is not to show spells to be interrupted |
| 12:37.30 | mikma | but the spells that are extremely .. dangerous to you |
| 12:38.45 | Grum | i'd say that divine hymn is really dangerous to you if you are in a cloth-team and you almost killed the stupid fan of knives spamming rogue |
| 12:39.25 | *** join/#wowuidev theorbtwo (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 12:41.40 | Wobin | damn those FOKSR |
| 12:41.42 | mikma | yes, but gotta draw the line somewhere |
| 12:41.57 | mikma | i'll keep the CC spells in instead |
| 12:42.07 | mikma | oh, and Mana Burn ^^ |
| 12:43.47 | dardack | this brief maintenance hardare upgrade on my realm, is this for the instance full crap? |
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| 13:04.18 | Adys | need some opinions |
| 13:04.32 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/42257/relentless-gladiators-mutilator/ - ignore the jpg artifacts; better here or where it was before (in the infobox, wowheadish) |
| 13:07.48 | Arrowmaster | omfg i love codemasters, i finally opened up overlord2 and started playing it and in the prelude you have your minions steal some childrens cloths and dress up as children, and they fucking started signing, i couldnt stop laughing |
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| 13:21.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-58-198.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 13:25.26 | Kraps | http://blog.pandora.com/pandora/archives/2009/07/important_updat_1.html |
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| 13:30.08 | *** join/#wowuidev peacehoof (n=ibroadfo@212.159.79.216) |
| 13:30.40 | peacehoof | the worst thing about trying to build addons is starting a new character to sanity test them |
| 13:30.54 | peacehoof | and then ending up playing that character instead of writing code... |
| 13:31.25 | Wobin | peacehoof: nah, I'm having a problem with writing a social network addon with only one account =P |
| 13:31.54 | mikma | i'm guessing mirror images ain't a buff either |
| 13:32.35 | Kraps | Just to confirm, Tome of Cold Weather Flight is actually a new heirloom item planned to go into patch 3.2. At level 80 players can buy this heirloom item from the Cold Weather Flying Trainer in Dalaran for 1,000 gold and send it to an alt of the same realm, faction and account. The tome can be used to learn Cold Weather Flying at level 68, consuming the tome in the process. |
| 13:32.46 | Kraps | HOLY !@#$ |
| 13:36.58 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/137717430 |
| 13:37.30 | Adys | what's so holy-shit about tome of cold weather flight? |
| 13:37.43 | Adys | the fact you can fly as of lvl 68 in NR? |
| 13:38.38 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 13:38.46 | Kraps | CATERING TO CASUALS BLAH BLAH... meh its too early for that |
| 13:39.24 | peacehoof | having an 80 with a spare 1kG and an alt at 68 is un-casual enough :) |
| 13:40.02 | Kraps | XD |
| 13:42.35 | Adys | meh |
| 13:42.44 | Adys | you can skip everything now on alts |
| 13:42.58 | Adys | blizz is going too far, too fast with this simplifying of the game |
| 13:43.10 | Kraps | lies |
| 13:43.24 | VukodlaK | if you can skip everything please tell me how..im sick of leveling this priest |
| 13:43.25 | Kraps | simple != easy |
| 13:43.37 | peacehoof | actually, i think the one thing I'm most looking forward to is 1.5s cast on ground mounts |
| 13:43.39 | Kraps | what VukodlaK said |
| 13:43.59 | Kraps | mines been at 74 for ages |
| 13:44.28 | VukodlaK | mines 61 and its been a pita |
| 13:46.27 | dardack | finally server back up |
| 13:46.51 | VukodlaK | wow mine just crashed |
| 13:47.03 | dardack | and aparently now you can send cold weather flying from a level 80 to an alt 68 |
| 13:47.24 | Wobin | what an awesome looking watch: http://www.watchnetwork.com/ClassiApp/ClassiNews/News?process=printable&large_images=1&NewsStoryID=79&return_to_archive=&start= |
| 13:51.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (i=martin_j@93.161.100.24) |
| 13:51.56 | Industrial | http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/lv_zhongfang_tiwe_watch.jpg http://www.geekologie.com/2008/08/27/rogue-1.jpg http://www.coolgadgets.org/gucci-led-watch/ |
| 13:52.00 | Industrial | :P |
| 13:52.24 | peacehoof | world of watchcraft? |
| 13:55.34 | Wobin | Industrial: pft |
| 13:55.46 | Wobin | do -they- cost $47,000? |
| 13:55.54 | mikma | damn the stupidity of some people... http://www.break.com/index/couch-airbag-explosion-surprise.html?mrr=we |
| 13:57.31 | Kraps | http://uowow.com/ |
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| 13:58.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 13:58.34 | mikma | tekkub: i know you like assjobs, so have a look: http://www.break.com/index/couch-airbag-explosion-surprise.html?mrr=we |
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| 14:03.15 | aesir | oh good. google OS. Now we can have fully searchable keylogging |
| 14:07.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-132-207-20.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 14:12.43 | Wobin | this site is kind of fantastic: http://www.sixtysymbols.com/ |
| 14:15.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Zealin (n=Lucas_Bi@cm56-200-51.liwest.at) |
| 14:18.47 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3__ (n=kd3@user-112131k.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 14:19.30 | mikma | oh great, a mad professor |
| 14:23.35 | Wobin | Kraps: that's... weird |
| 14:25.10 | Wobin | "NOPE U NO HAS TO BE DOWNLOADING EXPANSIONS" |
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| 14:28.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 14:32.35 | Wobin | wow, that's the best explanation of the Heisenberg Uncertainty principal |
| 14:37.04 | Wobin | also http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=89025590568&ref=nf |
| 14:37.05 | Wobin | >< |
| 14:37.14 | Shirik | hi Wobin |
| 14:37.21 | Wobin | "Join this FB group and get your name in the Guinness Book of Records" |
| 14:37.37 | Wobin | Yeah right, the GBoR is going to list however many thousands of names |
| 14:38.10 | Wobin | hi shirik |
| 14:40.48 | Shirik | Wobin: GBOR: Largest public collection of stupid people |
| 14:41.01 | Wobin | this is truth |
| 14:42.01 | haste | Bruners: ! |
| 14:43.11 | haste | ~framexml |
| 14:43.12 | purl | Get the official Blizzard Interface AddOn Kit: http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=21465 or view it online at http://wowcompares.com/ |
| 14:44.00 | Kraps | its really cold here |
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| 14:49.33 | Industrial | http://www.break.com/index/gymnast-shawn-johnson-put-to-sleep-at-17.html |
| 14:49.34 | Industrial | wtf |
| 14:49.36 | Industrial | is this real? |
| 14:49.43 | Industrial | Wobin: tell me this isnt real |
| 14:50.10 | Wobin | uploaded by OnionNewsNetwork? |
| 14:50.20 | Wobin | You tell me =P |
| 14:50.27 | Industrial | wtf is that |
| 14:50.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@ip-95-222-224-77.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 14:50.45 | Lopeppeppy | Um, of course it's not real, hello. Onion is a famous humor icon. |
| 14:50.48 | mikma | industrial: QQ network |
| 14:50.49 | Kraps | Industrial: its the onion, relax |
| 14:50.53 | Industrial | >_< |
| 14:51.35 | mikma | ahhahahahaha |
| 14:51.38 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M91dv1_QuuA |
| 14:51.41 | mikma | that's hilarious :D |
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| 14:52.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o jnwhiteh] by ChanServ |
| 14:52.54 | mikma | hehe |
| 14:53.08 | mikma | "also euthanized figure skater debbie thomas" :D |
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| 14:53.59 | Wobin | I love how the Onion has moved from a simple web 'news' site |
| 14:54.19 | Wobin | to having actors and daily updates and shows |
| 14:54.47 | mikma | earlier i saw a onion news about some student dropping a smoke and burning the whole dorm down |
| 14:55.10 | Kraps | http://quiz.wegame.com/wow_class_quiz/ |
| 14:55.15 | Kraps | i'm a shaman apparently |
| 14:55.27 | mikma | http://www.theonion.com/content/video/police_slog_through_40_000 |
| 14:55.28 | mikma | here :D |
| 14:55.44 | Wobin | Kraps: ugh, the questions are so staged =P |
| 14:55.46 | Kraps | but i wont be leveling him until 3.2 goes live :) |
| 14:56.05 | Wobin | Kraps: Even the Elder Scrolls had a better character class choosing choices than this =P |
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| 14:57.37 | mikma | kraps: Rogue here ^^ |
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| 15:31.07 | Wobin | woo thank god |
| 15:31.07 | Wobin | http://www.femaledwarf.com/ |
| 15:31.14 | Wobin | the hunter dps spreadsheet online |
| 15:33.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 15:33.17 | Kraps | In an interview with VideoGamer, Chilton said, "I certainly think it's possible that we could do some kind of microtransaction stuff. Whether or not World of Warcraft ever goes the direction of, I guess like Anarchy Online has gone the direction of going free-to-play with microtransactions. |
| 15:33.30 | Kraps | lame |
| 15:37.32 | nicoli_s | well i mean when you think about it, they already are doing microtransactions |
| 15:37.46 | nicoli_s | server moving, appearance/faction changing |
| 15:38.42 | Kraps | buying non-cosmetic ingame stuff is a different story |
| 15:39.23 | nevcairiel | Soem games even only sell cosmetic stuff, and loads of people buy |
| 15:39.47 | nevcairiel | tabards, mounts, pets, special hair styles |
| 15:39.53 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@58.20.47.166) |
| 15:42.10 | nicoli_s | but did they say anything about that kraps? |
| 15:42.49 | Kraps | not from what ive read |
| 15:46.14 | theorbtwo | is fairly certian he once tried a game that allowed you to buy breast implants. |
| 15:46.51 | theorbtwo | It was utterly horrible. |
| 15:48.09 | Kraps | whatttttt |
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| 15:54.46 | Ackis | teabags the channel. |
| 15:54.54 | Torhal_ | Ackis: Slut. |
| 15:55.26 | Ackis | you like it your dirty dirty boy |
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| 16:03.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@129.7.95.67) |
| 16:03.34 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:04.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Jim-Bim (n=thorben_@pD9E7269D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:04.12 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Lunessa dear. Are you thoroughly baked yet? |
| 16:05.59 | nicoli_s | hey lunessa doesnt do drugs! |
| 16:06.45 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr__ (n=tardmrr@ip98-183-82-154.lf.br.cox.net) |
| 16:07.08 | Lunessa | Well, dopamine, serotonin, and other naturally occurring ones in my brain sure. |
| 16:07.29 | Lunessa | And it's not too bad today. 88 and low-ish humidity. |
| 16:08.40 | Kraps | wooo i made an active thread http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=10001&sid=1 |
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| 16:12.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
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| 16:26.35 | Lunessa | Today on my WoW:Year of Fear calendar is - Majordomo Executus - "Reckless mortals! None may challenge the sons of the Living Flame!" - to which I say, "Too soon, Executus!" |
| 16:27.15 | Lopeppeppy | Too soon! |
| 16:31.33 | Lunessa | Going back to roll through Classic raids is kind of fun. |
| 16:32.13 | Lopeppeppy | *nod* |
| 16:32.26 | Lopeppeppy | I remember when MC was a total bear to finish in one night... |
| 16:39.35 | Lunessa | A party of 5 level 80s can roll through there in about 45 minutes for a full clear. |
| 16:41.06 | Lopeppeppy | That's almost funny. :) |
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| 16:44.31 | Wobin | mostly cause they just ignore the majority of the fight mechanics =P |
| 16:46.11 | Kraps | the default map still sucks ass /sigh |
| 16:47.20 | Lopeppeppy | Well, the map of MC is **old**, Kraps, I don't expect them to ever bother to change that. |
| 16:48.36 | Kraps | talking about wows maps in general |
| 16:52.12 | Kraps | ptr client crashed |
| 16:54.00 | Shirik_ | Lunessa: Year of Fear? |
| 16:54.08 | Wobin | http://www.mosnews.com/weird/2009/07/07/strongvagina/ |
| 16:54.11 | Wobin | I... have no words |
| 16:54.14 | Wobin | NSFW |
| 16:54.16 | Lunessa | It's the name of the 2009 desk calendar. |
| 16:54.21 | Wobin | if the url didn't tip you off |
| 16:54.39 | Wobin | Except "Unforgettable? *SNAP*" |
| 16:54.45 | Lunessa | Wobin: WHY, WHY, WY would you link that while I'm at work? |
| 16:55.02 | Wobin | well... it's not exactly porn |
| 16:55.04 | Lunessa | Now I'm going to wonder ALL DAY |
| 16:55.08 | Wobin | heeheehee |
| 16:56.28 | Lopeppeppy | I will tell you, Lunessa! |
| 16:56.56 | Lunessa | waits to get told. |
| 16:57.22 | theorbtwo | View with a text-mode browser. |
| 16:57.32 | Wobin | there are no incriminating pictures |
| 16:57.46 | Wobin | just the subject matter that might be considered nsfw |
| 16:58.14 | MentalPower | theres a banner at the top |
| 16:58.15 | theorbtwo | OTOH, the very large headline might be too. |
| 16:58.15 | Fisker | haha |
| 16:58.25 | MentalPower | with a topless woman |
| 16:58.25 | Fisker | looks like the yogg kill was basically a gimimck after all |
| 16:58.49 | theorbtwo | Oh, hey, so there is. |
| 17:00.24 | Kraps | theres nothing nsfw there |
| 17:00.37 | theorbtwo | Depends a lot on your 'w'. |
| 17:00.41 | Kraps | just a stupid news article |
| 17:00.44 | Wobin | there's a banner |
| 17:00.50 | Wobin | for ruscams.com |
| 17:01.28 | Kraps | World’s strongest vagina breaks own record lifting 14 kilos |
| 17:01.32 | Kraps | happy? |
| 17:02.08 | Wobin | pft, you spoiled the air of mystery that was keeping Lunessa on tenterhooks |
| 17:02.15 | Wobin | Fisker: exploity? |
| 17:02.18 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c83-250-8-84.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:02.28 | Lunessa | Bah, Someone told me. |
| 17:02.42 | Kraps | more importantly: wouldnt a guy be afraid to gave sex with her? |
| 17:03.12 | Wobin | yeah, that was my comment =P |
| 17:03.24 | Wobin | but she could probably hold you up =) |
| 17:03.31 | Wobin | given enough training |
| 17:04.26 | Fisker | Wobin yeah i'd call it an exploit |
| 17:04.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 17:05.01 | Kraps | Fisker is jealous |
| 17:05.18 | Fisker | not rly |
| 17:05.36 | Cruciformer | Why is fisker jealous? Co HIS vajayjay can only hold 13kg? :) |
| 17:05.58 | Lunessa | wobin - 14 kilos? PLEASE. She's going to have to do better if life me. |
| 17:06.11 | Wobin | she's clearly working up to it |
| 17:06.25 | Wobin | in the meantime, you better strengthen up |
| 17:06.29 | Wobin | otherwise it'll just snap |
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| 17:06.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 17:07.31 | Kraps | k new topic /shudders |
| 17:09.00 | Kraps | lol really? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHHGCzSdbHM&feature=fvw |
| 17:09.06 | Wobin | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wow.com/media/2009/07/thet_rooiswin.jpg |
| 17:09.08 | Kraps | World of Warcraft The Maelstrom Beta - Leaked |
| 17:11.02 | Wobin | "also don't worry about getting banned. Blizzard needs testers and they won't ban you for helping them fix bugs" |
| 17:11.03 | Wobin | >< |
| 17:11.32 | Kraps | lulz |
| 17:11.34 | Fisker | i want to physically harm scammers |
| 17:12.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Wobin: "lulz" indeed. |
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| 17:15.59 | foxlit | Why aren't there any *eloquent* scams? |
| 17:16.46 | Kraps | wtb warrior q&a |
| 17:17.28 | ZorbaTHut | kraps, wtb warrior redesign :( |
| 17:17.58 | Kraps | wtb thunderclap cd reduction |
| 17:18.14 | ZorbaTHut | wtb heroic strike not giving RSI |
| 17:18.16 | Kraps | ZorbaTHut: also thats too broad |
| 17:18.22 | Kraps | oh |
| 17:18.26 | ZorbaTHut | I almost think it's necessary at this point |
| 17:18.32 | foxlit | just remove heroic strike |
| 17:18.34 | foxlit | problem solved. |
| 17:18.57 | Kraps | i dont use it much except on bosses |
| 17:19.01 | ZorbaTHut | we've got the worst stance mechanic, some of the most annoying buffs, a major mechanic that requires hammering buttons ridiculously quickly, and are (afaik) the only class that has talents with negative side effects |
| 17:19.27 | Shirik_ | nevcairiel: I apologize, apparently C++ does standardize wchar_t |
| 17:19.32 | ZorbaTHut | on the other hand I'll never get tired of warbringer. |
| 17:19.35 | Shirik_ | I was wrong last night |
| 17:19.55 | foxlit | ZorbaTHut: good things come with bad things :) |
| 17:19.55 | nevcairiel | no standardized unicode strings? |
| 17:21.18 | Shirik_ | I'm looking through my C++ bible now :) |
| 17:21.55 | ZorbaTHut | nev, as I recall, no standardized unicode strings |
| 17:22.01 | ZorbaTHut | wchar_t is just a "wider char" |
| 17:22.13 | nevcairiel | well which you usually use to store unicode chars |
| 17:22.15 | ZorbaTHut | I believe better internationalization support is slated for c++0x (most likely c++1x) |
| 17:22.26 | nevcairiel | I never really used the STL <string> |
| 17:22.28 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, you'd presumably use it for that, but there's no library support for "unicode" |
| 17:22.29 | nevcairiel | so i dunno how it is |
| 17:22.30 | Shirik_ | it only provides a way to do, for example, L"Foo" |
| 17:22.35 | Shirik_ | Which doesn't say what encoding it is |
| 17:22.39 | Shirik_ | only that it will fit in a wchar_t[] |
| 17:22.51 | nevcairiel | i've seen that in code alot |
| 17:22.53 | ZorbaTHut | it's just "hey look now you have wider characters". |
| 17:23.15 | Shirik_ | "Wide character literals are of the form L'ab' where the number of characters between the quotes and their meanings is implementation-defined to match the wchar_t type." |
| 17:23.37 | nevcairiel | implementation-defined isnt that great |
| 17:23.56 | Shirik_ | hence C++0x's changes :) |
| 17:24.21 | nevcairiel | Its still to early to consider it for any real use, sadly |
| 17:26.59 | Shirik_ | g++ already has 0x support :) |
| 17:27.28 | Shirik_ | Unfortunately VS does not :( |
| 17:27.29 | Shirik_ | error C2065: 'nullptr' : undeclared identifier |
| 17:27.50 | Shirik_ | which is strange because it's highlighted like a keyword |
| 17:31.07 | Cruciformer | gosh this is an awefully good song. I'd forgotten just how good Pearl Jam can be when they are good. |
| 17:33.19 | Lunessa | Cruciformer: Get any of their "live" stuff - the concerts they released on CD - usually cheap, and often AWESOME. |
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| 17:35.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:35.59 | Cruciformer | Lunessa: I'll check that out. I am listening to given to fly. AWESOME tune. |
| 17:36.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (n=TC@cpe-76-169-229-41.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 17:36.40 | Lunessa | Check out "Bush Leager" |
| 17:37.29 | Cruciformer | oh that reminds me I need to listen to more Bush. Gavin Rosdale has a good voice. |
| 17:37.52 | Kraps | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/11/9941635630-double-dps-teams.html |
| 17:44.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 17:45.41 | jnwhiteh | any macro conditional that does something if the unit is a player rather than an npc? |
| 17:46.00 | Seerah | not to my knowledge |
| 17:46.07 | Lunessa | Kraps: Awesome. |
| 17:46.19 | alestane | You could try [unit=npc, exists], but I don't know if that works. |
| 17:46.26 | Lunessa | jnwhiteh: no conditionals. |
| 17:46.51 | nevcairiel | the npc unit only works if you talk to an vendor |
| 17:46.52 | nevcairiel | afaik |
| 17:46.54 | Lunessa | slash commands, yes /targetenemyplayer - but no conditionals. |
| 17:47.06 | jnwhiteh | alestane: yeah that's not what they want |
| 17:51.07 | Kraps | whats the mining hack? |
| 17:51.07 | Adys | REGEXES |
| 17:51.07 | Adys | sre_learned = re.compile(r"\?s(\d+)\[([^\]]*)\]\[([^\]]*)\]") # $?s59307[foo][bar] |
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| 17:52.34 | Dagmar | pure win, that is |
| 17:52.35 | Lopeppeppy | Shakespeare loved regexes too. |
| 17:52.47 | Kraps | http://freekorea.us/2009/07/08/is-kim-jong-il-dying/ |
| 17:54.28 | Dagmar | Adys: That's an excellent example of commenting for technical complexity |
| 17:55.18 | Dagmar | I know regexp and just looking at that one makes me want to pound my forehead on the desk |
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| 18:15.56 | alestane | I am filled with frustration at the file override debate. |
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| 18:25.35 | Ackis | cog|work, Seerah: A.C.K.I.S.: Artificial Cybernetic Killing and Infiltration Soldier |
| 18:26.20 | alestane | "Dispersion: Cooldown reduced to 3 minutes, down from 2 minutes." ??? |
| 18:27.40 | Fisker | no Ackis |
| 18:27.41 | Fisker | just no |
| 18:27.47 | Seerah | hehe |
| 18:28.45 | msoull | one thing i'd like to see with the next patch, dks dual wielding |
| 18:28.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 18:29.21 | Lunessa | alestane: As am I. |
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| 18:30.11 | alestane | People think they know what the *&^% they're talking about. |
| 18:30.21 | Lopeppeppy | *hug* |
| 18:30.47 | ZorbaTHut | file override debate? |
| 18:31.01 | Lopeppeppy | Time for a standard response. "Blizz reads this forum. When they decide they don't want it to work, they'll break it. There's nothing to discuss, it's not up to a forum consensus team." |
| 18:31.22 | alestane | Whether or not it's permissible to put files in places where Blizzard will load them instead of contents from the MPQs. |
| 18:31.24 | Lunessa | People who don't understand logic arguing "logically." |
| 18:31.27 | ZorbaTHut | ah, I see |
| 18:31.46 | ZorbaTHut | I hope they leave that in, I have that set up to disable the horrible aggro-pulling sound :P |
| 18:31.52 | Lopeppeppy | And I just posted exactly that, and will do so in every thread I find. :) |
| 18:32.11 | quasar | if only that would stop them lol |
| 18:32.36 | ZorbaTHut | I do see why it seems a little sketchy - there's some very hackish stuff you can do with it - but it would be real, real easy for blizz to disable it |
| 18:32.49 | Lopeppeppy | It will, if every forum regular stops trying to argue, and posts the same thing. |
| 18:33.01 | Lopeppeppy | And if Bliz decides to, they'll disable it and poof, no more problem! |
| 18:33.02 | Ackis | wow |
| 18:33.03 | alestane | Since it's a deliberate feature of the client, and not a freaky exploit? Yeah. |
| 18:33.08 | Ackis | ZorbaTHut: hackish pinged me |
| 18:33.08 | Ackis | lol |
| 18:33.13 | ZorbaTHut | hah |
| 18:33.42 | alestane | Unless, as someone claims, it's "thereto facilitate things for the developers" and not intended for public use, which isn't actually stated anywhere. |
| 18:34.21 | Lopeppeppy | Never would be. |
| 18:34.23 | ZorbaTHut | even if it is, though, they could easily disable it for a release build |
| 18:34.31 | Lopeppeppy | Stick with what I just added to the thread, it's easier. |
| 18:34.33 | Lopeppeppy | :) |
| 18:34.47 | Lunessa | City of Heroes had issues with people using their overrides. Cryptic specifically disabled the feature. Blizzard has not. I'm not concerned that I'll be hit with the ban-hammer. |
| 18:35.05 | Lopeppeppy | Ban hammer hurts. Don't use it if you're worried. :) |
| 18:35.10 | Lopeppeppy | I put that in there too. :) |
| 18:36.35 | Fisker | Blizzrad considers it's modification with file overrides |
| 18:36.44 | Fisker | my fingers suck today |
| 18:36.57 | Fisker | They're not doing what my brain tells them to :( |
| 18:37.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:37.07 | Lopeppeppy | *hug* |
| 18:37.40 | durcyn | i override sounds, and until there's an option to fire people into the sun when they use toy train sets, i will continue to override those sounds |
| 18:38.00 | Lunessa | durcyn: Get the trainwrecker. |
| 18:38.05 | Lopeppeppy | Free choice is a staple of life. |
| 18:38.20 | Dagmar | The trainwrecker's mere existance has made trains in the AH a rarity on my serve |
| 18:38.21 | Dagmar | r |
| 18:38.37 | durcyn | Lunessa: every raid is an epic battle of trains vs robots these days |
| 18:38.47 | durcyn | meanwhile i refuse to listen to it |
| 18:38.50 | alestane | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18315574491&pageNo=3&sid=1#57 I have to say this guy just FILLS me with confidence in his post. |
| 18:38.52 | Fisker | noone can be bothered to buy a trainwrecker here |
| 18:38.57 | Fisker | But i hate that wintertime developer |
| 18:39.02 | Lunessa | durcyn: We have a rule - drop a train, sit out. |
| 18:39.11 | Fisker | I used to put up BRD transporters on top of the WG portal |
| 18:39.22 | Fisker | But Wintertime warns against it :( |
| 18:39.28 | durcyn | Lunessa: i'm seriously considering adding a /gremove to trainwhistle |
| 18:39.36 | nevcairiel | haha durcyn |
| 18:40.20 | Lopeppeppy | alestane love, let it go, or bit it to death. *hug* |
| 18:40.25 | Lopeppeppy | No more of stress over forumstupid! |
| 18:40.40 | Lunessa | durcyn: The 'raid alliance' I go with has some pretty slack rules - and people go AFK a lot at the first sign of down time. But they got really harsh about trainsets and posting recount reports. |
| 18:40.41 | alestane | Oh, he's a different issue. |
| 18:40.55 | Adys | Dagmar: regexes are awesome |
| 18:41.04 | Adys | the thing is |
| 18:41.07 | Adys | this one's pretty simple |
| 18:41.17 | Adys | except I need to have brackets excluded |
| 18:41.19 | Shirik_ | :( |
| 18:41.20 | Dagmar | It has toothpicks and brackets syndrome |
| 18:41.24 | Shirik_ | required whitespace is annoying |
| 18:41.25 | alestane | Not that he's involved or what he thinks, but that he's trying to offer advice based on how knowledgable he is when he can't even be bothered to PUNCTUATE. |
| 18:41.26 | Adys | so thats escaped brackets within brackets |
| 18:41.33 | Shirik_ | Repository.Print("Laying out phase "+++i+"..."); |
| 18:41.35 | Lopeppeppy | :) |
| 18:41.35 | Shirik_ | not valid code :( |
| 18:41.42 | Dagmar | It looks like an epileptic ninja went at it |
| 18:42.31 | Lunessa | alestane: Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, code. Those who can't code, post of forums. |
| 18:43.47 | Dagmar | We need a Torture-Over-IP protocol |
| 18:44.10 | Dagmar | There's several people in that thread desperately in need of slapping |
| 18:44.42 | Lunessa | When my "Stab You in the Face over IP" device is ready, I will be rich. |
| 18:44.57 | Dagmar | Can we put in advance orders? |
| 18:45.00 | Adys | http://www.just-whatever.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/google-grill.jpg |
| 18:45.06 | Adys | what to do if inside of Shirik gets wet? |
| 18:45.33 | alestane | Lunessa: I teach, code, AND post on forums. Does that make me the test of the principle, or the king of failures? |
| 18:45.48 | Lunessa | alestane: Hey, I do all those too. We're exceptional. |
| 18:46.09 | Lunessa | Though, honestly I'm a crap programmer these days. |
| 18:46.59 | alestane | They renamed UIOptionsPanels to InterfaceOptionsPanels? |
| 18:47.27 | End | They renamed the file |
| 18:47.32 | End | did they rename anything inside? |
| 18:48.26 | Lunessa | End: only by extension if you're using say /click |
| 18:48.46 | alestane | My diff software is confused by the change and didn't compare them, so I haven't looked yet. |
| 18:49.27 | alestane | nevcairiel: The current PTR build should support emulating the totem bar. |
| 18:49.41 | nevcairiel | I know, but i don't want to |
| 18:49.44 | nevcairiel | too much work |
| 18:49.49 | alestane | Just sayin'. |
| 18:49.58 | nevcairiel | Yeah i saw the new handler in the secure code |
| 18:50.21 | alestane | For once, I'd like to have the secure templates support emulating a stock feature when it comes out, and not two patches later. |
| 18:50.37 | nevcairiel | It does now |
| 18:50.38 | alestane | I don't use Bartender, no nevermind to me if you do, as long as you're able to. |
| 18:50.38 | nevcairiel | :) |
| 18:50.52 | nevcairiel | I just made the default bar movable |
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| 18:51.03 | nevcairiel | so that shamans are not lost |
| 18:52.26 | Lunessa | Here's hoping Tuller does either emulate it or does the same thing you did. :) Though I'm not sure even with the new thing I want to give up YATA. |
| 18:52.40 | nevcairiel | It is kidna nice for putting down a whole set |
| 18:53.12 | Lunessa | Yeah, that'll give me 6 more seconds of DPS time. :) |
| 18:53.43 | Dagmar | They should take the safeties off the lightning totem |
| 18:53.44 | Lunessa | Which will make a HUGE difference. |
| 18:53.56 | Lunessa | lightning totem? |
| 18:54.07 | Dagmar | The one that the multiboxers are fond of |
| 18:54.10 | alestane | An emulation would also be able to support things like casting the totem on right-click and setting the slot on left-click. |
| 18:54.43 | Kaelten | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/eula/pro.mspx |
| 18:55.21 | Cairenn | ? |
| 18:55.34 | nevcairiel | someone tested something =p |
| 18:55.49 | Lopeppeppy | Awww, how cute |
| 18:56.08 | quasar | rofl |
| 18:56.41 | Kaelten | Cairenn: check the link |
| 18:56.47 | Cairenn | yeah, blank page |
| 18:56.55 | Ackis | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/funny-pictures-kitten-has-a-charging-port.jpg |
| 18:57.00 | nevcairiel | the page changes though |
| 18:57.00 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 18:57.05 | nevcairiel | the title was blue-ish |
| 18:57.07 | nevcairiel | now its black |
| 18:59.01 | Cairenn | stays the same for me |
| 19:03.52 | alestane | http://notalwaysright.com/undeclared-4-life/2183 |
| 19:09.36 | jnwhiteh | so the 13" new mbp |
| 19:09.48 | jnwhiteh | does not run wow all tha tmuch better than a 15" c2d macbook pro |
| 19:09.55 | jnwhiteh | the first c2d. |
| 19:09.59 | foxlit | Well DUH? |
| 19:10.02 | foxlit | :) |
| 19:10.02 | jnwhiteh | Not enough to justify "upgrading" to it |
| 19:10.11 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: the graphics card change should have done more :P |
| 19:10.17 | Fisker | Nothing justifies a mac |
| 19:10.39 | foxlit | jnwhiteh: except it doesn't have a discrete graphics chip. |
| 19:10.44 | jnwhiteh | my mac can say "I hate Fisker" |
| 19:10.46 | jnwhiteh | that's worth it |
| 19:11.06 | Fisker | my PC can say "I hate jnwhiteh" |
| 19:11.11 | jnwhiteh | mine does it easier :P |
| 19:11.43 | Fisker | i disagree |
| 19:11.48 | nicoli_s | its true, the text to speech on a mac is much better |
| 19:12.17 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 19:12.25 | TopTop18 | Eey! |
| 19:12.27 | nicoli_s | im always hearing its creepy voice from Kaelten and ckknights office |
| 19:12.31 | jnwhiteh | say "I hate fisker" |
| 19:12.32 | Fisker | i didn't say it was better |
| 19:12.37 | Fisker | i said it could say i hate jnwhiteh |
| 19:12.43 | nicoli_s | <@jnwhiteh> mine does it easier :P |
| 19:12.44 | nicoli_s | <Fisker> i disagree |
| 19:12.48 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 19:12.50 | Fisker | that's easier not better |
| 19:12.52 | Fisker | try again |
| 19:12.53 | nicoli_s | well easier, better whatever |
| 19:12.53 | jnwhiteh | i like nicoli_s, fights my fights for me |
| 19:13.14 | foxlit | Loses them on your behalf :) |
| 19:13.17 | nicoli_s | so any of you guys try out aion? |
| 19:13.50 | jnwhiteh | nicoli_s: its not for mac, i think |
| 19:13.55 | TopTop18 | I got the programming book yesterday :D |
| 19:14.08 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: which book? |
| 19:14.08 | nicoli_s | sadly not jnwhiteh, not sure why they didnt bother |
| 19:14.09 | Dagmar | THey're being stingy with the betas still |
| 19:14.18 | nicoli_s | probably your book jnwhiteh |
| 19:14.23 | TopTop18 | Wowprogramming |
| 19:14.27 | jnwhiteh | oh, cool |
| 19:14.29 | jnwhiteh | let me know how much it sucks |
| 19:14.31 | jnwhiteh | quick |
| 19:14.38 | jnwhiteh | so i can fix it for the second edition |
| 19:14.39 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 19:14.39 | TopTop18 | I can even understand stuff ogf it xD |
| 19:14.40 | nicoli_s | lol i think like half our office has your book |
| 19:14.49 | TopTop18 | Found some faults though |
| 19:15.02 | jnwhiteh | most of the errata is the damn publisher =( |
| 19:15.15 | jnwhiteh | but go ahead and let me know (or post on our forums) with any issues you encounter |
| 19:15.16 | TopTop18 | Like end in a function not being in the same lettertype as code must be somwhere |
| 19:15.17 | jnwhiteh | if you can =) |
| 19:15.21 | jnwhiteh | oh yeah |
| 19:15.25 | jnwhiteh | damn production team |
| 19:15.29 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 19:15.30 | jnwhiteh | screwed our codei n some places |
| 19:15.33 | jnwhiteh | made -- into an emdash |
| 19:15.34 | jnwhiteh | >< |
| 19:15.38 | TopTop18 | lol |
| 19:15.38 | jnwhiteh | after we changed it back 13 times |
| 19:15.45 | TopTop18 | xD |
| 19:15.49 | nevcairiel | write them a mean letter next time |
| 19:15.51 | Lopeppeppy | Ouch. |
| 19:15.57 | Lopeppeppy | They should know better when editing technical things! |
| 19:16.25 | TopTop18 | Already on page 74 out of 1022 xD |
| 19:16.40 | Ackis | TopTop18: if you get tired of reading it, it holds up a couch quite nicely ;) |
| 19:16.47 | TopTop18 | But last 600 pages is reference stuff |
| 19:16.49 | nevcairiel | I still have my 2 extra copys around |
| 19:16.57 | nevcairiel | I should give them to someone |
| 19:17.00 | TopTop18 | Ackis, why did you think I came over here? |
| 19:17.25 | jnwhiteh | hehe |
| 19:17.28 | TopTop18 | Nevcairiel, couldn;t you say that before I spended 36 euro? |
| 19:17.38 | TopTop18 | xD |
| 19:17.45 | nevcairiel | someone i know* |
| 19:17.46 | nevcairiel | :p |
| 19:17.54 | TopTop18 | You no know me? oO |
| 19:18.01 | Ackis | nah it's a good book, I found the reference stuff to be useless tbh because we can access it online (not meant as a slight at all jnwhiteh) |
| 19:18.14 | Fisker | herro Ackis |
| 19:18.17 | jnwhiteh | Ackis: i use it in my office and other times |
| 19:18.23 | jnwhiteh | but yeah |
| 19:18.27 | nevcairiel | I looked at some of the examples |
| 19:18.29 | jnwhiteh | i guess the thought was we spent so much damn time on it |
| 19:18.32 | jnwhiteh | might as well print it =) |
| 19:18.32 | nevcairiel | but i really dont have the need to read it |
| 19:18.54 | TopTop18 | Is the reference really a full complete whole reference? |
| 19:19.01 | nevcairiel | Its a bit outdated by now |
| 19:19.02 | nevcairiel | but yeah |
| 19:19.03 | Ackis | jnwhiteh: oh it could come in handy I think, just not for me personally |
| 19:19.13 | TopTop18 | oO Ye that'll cost some time |
| 19:19.23 | nevcairiel | We worked with a lot of people on it |
| 19:19.36 | jnwhiteh | that API reference was 3 months of my life |
| 19:19.37 | jnwhiteh | gone |
| 19:19.38 | jnwhiteh | =( |
| 19:19.53 | nevcairiel | how many people did you have working that script in the end? |
| 19:19.55 | TopTop18 | Reading your book=3 months of my life gone xD |
| 19:20.02 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: 13 i think |
| 19:20.04 | jnwhiteh | to varying degrees |
| 19:20.09 | jnwhiteh | but i have svn logs of everyone and know how much everyone did |
| 19:20.10 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 19:20.13 | nevcairiel | hehe |
| 19:20.16 | Lopeppeppy | I love my copy! |
| 19:20.29 | nevcairiel | I have one on my desk right here |
| 19:20.33 | nevcairiel | and 2 under my bed =P |
| 19:20.33 | TopTop18 | Same already |
| 19:20.43 | TopTop18 | Lol why ahve 3? |
| 19:20.53 | TopTop18 | For if one breaks? |
| 19:21.03 | nevcairiel | a man gotta have redundancys |
| 19:21.16 | jnwhiteh | i only got 3 in the uk |
| 19:21.18 | jnwhiteh | and 7 more in the us |
| 19:21.20 | jnwhiteh | those all went to fam tho |
| 19:21.24 | jnwhiteh | and i need one more actually here |
| 19:21.24 | jnwhiteh | =( |
| 19:21.27 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 19:21.31 | jnwhiteh | since i have to answer questions whether i'm in the office or home |
| 19:21.35 | jnwhiteh | and one to travel with when i'mw riting |
| 19:21.52 | nevcairiel | You should bring out a pocket version |
| 19:21.57 | nevcairiel | which isnt that heavy |
| 19:21.58 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 19:22.10 | jnwhiteh | i could make one for myself, i have all the pdfs =) |
| 19:22.26 | nevcairiel | Do you want to split reference into a second book in the 2nd edition? |
| 19:22.28 | nevcairiel | or still one big? |
| 19:22.57 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: http://wowprogramming.com/forums for any issues or problems, my RSS is updated every hour or so so i'm pretty quick response if i'm around |
| 19:22.59 | TopTop18 | Will the second edition cahnge a lot? |
| 19:23.01 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: its still one big |
| 19:23.04 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: not really, actually |
| 19:23.10 | TopTop18 | Great :D |
| 19:23.13 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: some of the more difficult systems changed |
| 19:23.25 | jnwhiteh | but the new one covers the new combat log, the new animation system, ui panels, etc. |
| 19:23.25 | TopTop18 | Okay, like? |
| 19:23.27 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: tho I've though about that |
| 19:23.40 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: just not sure what to do |
| 19:23.44 | nevcairiel | It would be alot more manageable |
| 19:23.49 | jnwhiteh | nevcairiel: we've spent too much time on the reference to throw it out |
| 19:23.57 | jnwhiteh | and without it, the book isn't complete |
| 19:24.04 | jnwhiteh | we'd have to go back through and document a TON of stuff inline |
| 19:24.07 | nevcairiel | I guess you can't really sell it as one and ship the two |
| 19:24.15 | jnwhiteh | nope, not really |
| 19:24.19 | jnwhiteh | tho i agree that would be handy |
| 19:24.25 | jnwhiteh | maybe i should bring that up, lol |
| 19:25.07 | nevcairiel | I agree that it would be problematic if its split and people only order the instruction book |
| 19:25.37 | TopTop18 | Maybe a somewhat more solid cover would be great to |
| 19:26.02 | nevcairiel | ya it would stand better then =P |
| 19:26.05 | nevcairiel | mine always falls over |
| 19:26.35 | TopTop18 | lol |
| 19:27.26 | TopTop18 | Woudl it be a good idea to start with a DKP addon after I fully read the book? |
| 19:27.43 | Ackis | start with hello world |
| 19:27.46 | foxlit | Start one now, read the book later. |
| 19:27.46 | nevcairiel | that depends how much functionality you want |
| 19:28.05 | TopTop18 | a lot simple functionality xD |
| 19:28.26 | TopTop18 | simple event/button triggered add/loss of dkp from a database with guild names and dkp scores |
| 19:28.44 | TopTop18 | Think that's manageable :D |
| 19:29.51 | jnwhiteh | depends |
| 19:29.58 | jnwhiteh | is the database only for one person? |
| 19:30.17 | jnwhiteh | i.e. is the same person always responsible for being there and dishing out loot and adding/subtracting points? |
| 19:30.18 | jnwhiteh | it so, yes. |
| 19:30.21 | jnwhiteh | if not, no =) |
| 19:31.23 | TopTop18 | Hmm was thinking of 2 "versions"One that can manage stuff, would be accessible for say first three ranks of guild, second version only displays stuff for normal members |
| 19:31.47 | jnwhiteh | a distributed database is about as complex as you can get in WoW |
| 19:31.49 | TopTop18 | They can sync through addon channel? |
| 19:31.52 | jnwhiteh | even if you use guild data to store it |
| 19:31.59 | jnwhiteh | most people here wouldn't even bother trying to do that |
| 19:32.05 | jnwhiteh | they'd just use something someone else wrote =) |
| 19:32.15 | TopTop18 | Lol, I will |
| 19:32.16 | jnwhiteh | not meant to discourage you in any way |
| 19:32.18 | jnwhiteh | because yes, it can be done |
| 19:32.19 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 19:32.40 | TopTop18 | I'll get over here if stuff doesn;t work xD |
| 19:32.49 | Ackis | imo stay here forever |
| 19:32.50 | Ackis | and ever |
| 19:33.06 | TopTop18 | Will be a great practice before i go study informatics in 2 yeaars :D |
| 19:33.20 | foxlit | Ackis: does horrible things to your productivity. |
| 19:33.37 | TopTop18 | It does already to me xD |
| 19:33.45 | TopTop18 | And I've only been here 5 mins |
| 19:34.02 | TopTop18 | (and a lot of time a few months ago) |
| 19:34.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:35.22 | TopTop18 | Hmm what's Matthew Orlando's nickname around here? |
| 19:35.40 | Cairenn | cogwheel |
| 19:35.54 | TopTop18 | Ohkay, No know him :D |
| 19:36.23 | cog|work | looks around suspiciously |
| 19:36.36 | Ackis | foxlit: what productivity? |
| 19:36.40 | Ackis | mollests cog|work |
| 19:36.57 | foxlit | Ackis: qed. |
| 19:37.21 | TopTop18 | lol |
| 19:37.24 | Lopeppeppy | Lorem ipsum |
| 19:37.47 | foxlit | dolor sit amet, |
| 19:38.17 | TopTop18 | Pie |
| 19:38.35 | cog|work | agrees |
| 19:39.02 | jnwhiteh | cog|work: pie indeed. |
| 19:39.18 | TopTop18 | Now some hard maths: Pie>Cake |
| 19:40.17 | foxlit | Cake is clearly bigger than Pie. |
| 19:40.28 | ReAn | but pie is better than cake |
| 19:40.43 | TopTop18 | Cake isn;t bigger then pie if pie's bigger then cake |
| 19:40.49 | ReAn | it's yummyness is more dense |
| 19:41.22 | Lopeppeppy | *giggle* |
| 19:41.34 | Lopeppeppy | ~seen AbsoRayne |
| 19:41.36 | purl | absorayne <n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-30.barrettxplore.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 179d 23h 33m 52s ago, saying: 'oops'. |
| 19:41.48 | Lopeppeppy | That's not right. *sigh* |
| 19:41.54 | Lopeppeppy | ~seen AbsoluteRayne |
| 19:41.55 | purl | i haven't seen 'absoluterayne', Lopeppeppy |
| 19:41.58 | Lopeppeppy | I give up. |
| 19:42.13 | ScytheBlade1 | ~seen absolutrayne |
| 19:42.14 | purl | absolutrayne <n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-30.barrettxplore.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 13d 22h 9m 20s ago, saying: 'Still 404s on Login'. |
| 19:42.37 | TopTop18 | powned |
| 19:43.53 | Duman | hmm |
| 19:45.01 | TopTop18 | ~seen purl |
| 19:45.02 | purl | purl <i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt> was last seen on IRC in channel ##kierra, 509d 7h 25m 27s ago, saying: 'Tallahassee, Tallahassee Regional Airport, FL, United States; (KTLH) 30-23-35N 084-21-12W 16M; last updated: 2008.02.15 1153 UTC; Dew Point: 30.9 F (-0.6 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.33 in. Hg (1027 hPa); Pressure tendency: 0.07 inches (2.3 hPa) higher than three hours ago; Relative Humidity: 84%; Sky conditions: clear; ... |
| 19:45.24 | TopTop18 | lol |
| 19:45.56 | Duman | heh |
| 19:47.27 | TopTop18 | Yay chapter 6 only 21 chapter sto go |
| 19:50.49 | Lopeppeppy | Thank you, ScytheBlade1. Apparently my desire for perfect spelling is defeated by his nick. :) That's still a long time he's been away |
| 19:58.37 | ScytheBlade1 | hehe |
| 20:04.29 | jnwhiteh | so cute: http://wowprogramming.com/BlizzArt/TARGETINGFRAME/UI-TargetingFrame-Sheep.png |
| 20:05.49 | ScytheBlade1 | and tiny |
| 20:19.36 | Lunessa | baaaa, baaaa |
| 20:19.57 | Lopeppeppy | Meow. |
| 20:21.44 | Grum | alestane: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/117237-34tg <-- the assist macro that rewrites itself -- actually made it working :) |
| 20:22.40 | TopTop18 | Hmm was thinking a bit, shouldn;t foo be F00? |
| 20:22.44 | ScytheBlade1 | lol @ macro name |
| 20:22.52 | TopTop18 | for function00 |
| 20:23.15 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 20:23.23 | TopTop18 | sounds way more logical |
| 20:23.55 | alestane | Ah, yes, more args to EditMacro. |
| 20:24.02 | foxlit | DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage ? print! |
| 20:24.17 | mikma | now.. |
| 20:24.22 | Lunessa | grrr... 4gb ram is not enough |
| 20:24.28 | Grum | oh right! |
| 20:24.31 | mikma | someone will surely assrape you foxlit because you are saying he should use print |
| 20:24.55 | foxlit | he should use print. |
| 20:24.58 | foxlit | is defiant. |
| 20:26.11 | Lunessa | TopTop18: "foo" is just a word used to represent a random variable. - Like teenagers use "like" or "what" |
| 20:26.50 | TopTop18 | Okay, but still f00 is more logical :D |
| 20:27.14 | durcyn | ~google metasyntactic variable |
| 20:27.22 | foxlit | numbers in variable names seem silly. |
| 20:27.25 | ckknight | deadbeef |
| 20:27.40 | Lunessa | not to mention f00 could be a hex value |
| 20:27.44 | ScytheBlade1 | !g metasyntatic variable |
| 20:27.45 | batbot | ScytheBlade1: Metasyntactic variable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metasyntactic_variable> |
| 20:27.53 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 20:28.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Rincewind` (n=Rince@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Rincewind) |
| 20:29.11 | Lunessa | "Clothing has never been what you might call a thingy of dog wossname.", and then adds, "Two metasyntactic variables there. Sorry." - lawl |
| 20:29.30 | TopTop18 | "Wibble, wobble, wubble and flob are often used in the UK[7]." |
| 20:29.38 | TopTop18 | They are way more fun then foo |
| 20:31.11 | Dashkal | foo > everything |
| 20:31.19 | Dashkal | or perhaps foo >= everything |
| 20:31.54 | TopTop18 | foo=foo and if anyone can prove that's not try you get a cookie |
| 20:31.56 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: [bonusbar:5] show;hide = correct BT4 syntax for showing a bar when "possessing" in BT4? (I don't use it, asking for someone else.) |
| 20:32.12 | Dashkal | foo != foo just as undefined != undefined |
| 20:32.18 | nevcairiel | Lunessa: yeah |
| 20:32.20 | Dashkal | for the same reason |
| 20:32.24 | Lunessa | Nev, thanks |
| 20:32.32 | nevcairiel | like macros, just without the /slash |
| 20:32.40 | nevcairiel | and show hide as values =p |
| 20:33.05 | Lunessa | Yeah, I thought so. |
| 20:33.31 | TopTop18 | "FOO is an abbreviation of Forward Observation Officer, the British Army term in use as early as the First World War[2]` |
| 20:34.14 | Lunessa | Ok, we get it. You don't like foo. |
| 20:34.26 | TopTop18 | Nope I don´t |
| 20:34.30 | Dagmar | The internet's a bad place to be for people who don't like foo. |
| 20:34.40 | Dashkal | You well, however, have to get used to it. foo is everywhere. |
| 20:34.49 | TopTop18 | foo is nearly the same as poo and I don+t like poo so i don+t like foo |
| 20:34.49 | Dashkal | s/well/will/ |
| 20:34.51 | Lunessa | The foo is out there. |
| 20:35.02 | Dagmar | Foo wants to be free. |
| 20:35.37 | Lunessa | Foo - it's in there. |
| 20:35.57 | TopTop18 | We'll see if I can avoid/crush foo whahahahahahaha |
| 20:36.33 | Dashkal | The irony of foo is if you actually use it for any reason other than to explain a concept, you're likely doing something wrong |
| 20:36.52 | jnwhiteh | anyone know well how SetAlphaMode() works? |
| 20:37.39 | jnwhiteh | trying to figure out how best to explain it so need to come up with a good example |
| 20:38.18 | TopTop18 | Hmm I'll look it up in your book |
| 20:38.25 | jnwhiteh | *cackle* |
| 20:38.31 | jnwhiteh | i wrote that documentation |
| 20:38.40 | jnwhiteh | i need more info and was hoping to save some time |
| 20:38.46 | TopTop18 | It's not in :S |
| 20:39.05 | TopTop18 | Your complete reference is not complete! |
| 20:39.51 | TopTop18 | Although a helload of stuff is in there |
| 20:40.47 | jnwhiteh | its documented online |
| 20:40.59 | jnwhiteh | i did write that =) |
| 20:41.28 | jnwhiteh | Mikk: i need you |
| 20:44.07 | TopTop18 | It's not online either |
| 20:44.36 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/UITYPE_AlphaMode |
| 20:44.58 | jnwhiteh | yes foxlit i know |
| 20:45.00 | jnwhiteh | that doesn't help |
| 20:45.10 | jnwhiteh | i do know how to use google |
| 20:45.18 | TopTop18 | There's stuff about alpha on wowprogramming.com but nothing about SetAlphaMode() |
| 20:45.27 | foxlit | good to know. |
| 20:45.30 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: yes, SetAlphaMode is on wowprogramming, which i wrote |
| 20:45.31 | jnwhiteh | O.o |
| 20:45.35 | jnwhiteh | forget it, i'll figure it out |
| 20:45.38 | Mikk | jnwhiteh: i have visitors over so i can help if it's quick |
| 20:45.53 | jnwhiteh | Mikk: just wondering if you know much about setalphamode and the way the examples on that page are created |
| 20:45.59 | jnwhiteh | if so, i'll email you if not i'll play with it |
| 20:46.42 | Mikk | You can do that in e.g. gimp. Probably photoshop also. |
| 20:46.47 | jnwhiteh | but go enjoy your party |
| 20:46.47 | Mikk | or I |
| 20:47.00 | jnwhiteh | don't worry about it |
| 20:47.03 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 20:47.04 | jnwhiteh | i'll figure something out |
| 20:47.07 | jnwhiteh | thanks for the help |
| 20:47.56 | Mikk | Wait I take that back. Those images would have to be created in-game |
| 20:48.01 | jnwhiteh | *nod* |
| 20:48.06 | Mikk | Gimp uses the "value" of pixels when it's masking |
| 20:48.10 | jnwhiteh | I'm just trying to work out how it all works |
| 20:48.11 | Mikk | Not just the alpha channel |
| 20:48.19 | Mikk | The examples are a bit poop tbh |
| 20:48.22 | jnwhiteh | alright |
| 20:48.28 | jnwhiteh | i want to find default textures that have alpha set properly |
| 20:48.31 | jnwhiteh | so i'll work a bit more. |
| 20:48.37 | TopTop18 | jnwhiteh, where's setaplhamode on wowprogramming then? |
| 20:48.38 | Mikk | I understand them only because I know how they work already |
| 20:48.43 | jnwhiteh | !api SetAlphaMode |
| 20:48.51 | jnwhiteh | !api SetBlendMode |
| 20:49.01 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'SetAlphaMode'. |
| 20:49.02 | *** join/#wowuidev ilovemrdoe (n=ddd@88-104-34-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:49.10 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: its http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/Texture/SetAlphaMode |
| 20:49.12 | jnwhiteh | err |
| 20:49.12 | lua_bot | Texture:SetBlendMode: Set the blend mode of the texture. (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/Texture/SetBlendMode) |
| 20:49.14 | jnwhiteh | SetBlendmOde |
| 20:49.21 | jnwhiteh | Mikk: alright, go have fun =) |
| 20:49.25 | jnwhiteh | i know how they work conceptually |
| 20:49.31 | jnwhiteh | so i dont really know what my question is |
| 20:49.33 | jnwhiteh | so no worries :P |
| 20:49.47 | TopTop18 | lol |
| 20:50.37 | mikma | http://wow.reaktio.net/Invataxi/ |
| 20:50.38 | mikma | haha |
| 20:50.53 | TopTop18 | Ah thanks jnwhiteh, I'm just completely stupid and you;re allmighty! |
| 20:51.05 | jnwhiteh | you're not stupid |
| 20:51.08 | jnwhiteh | and i am not almighty |
| 20:51.14 | jnwhiteh | you just don't seem to get that I wrote all of this =) |
| 20:51.14 | Mikk | no. me > jnwhiteh clearly |
| 20:51.21 | jnwhiteh | so I do know what is there :p |
| 20:51.50 | TopTop18 | Meh, you wrote ALL of it? |
| 20:52.11 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 20:52.13 | Mikk | jnwhiteh: I think I'd use an image with a pattern of more colors. And also show what the alpha channel looks like. |
| 20:52.21 | jnwhiteh | but over 85% yes |
| 20:53.04 | TopTop18 | alpha=opacity? |
| 20:53.26 | TopTop18 | (I worked a bit with gimp a few months ago) |
| 20:53.28 | jnwhiteh | yes |
| 20:53.33 | jnwhiteh | Mikk: i'll just make a graphic |
| 20:53.42 | jnwhiteh | was going to find one in the default MPQs |
| 20:53.42 | jnwhiteh | but |
| 20:53.43 | jnwhiteh | meh |
| 20:57.04 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch_ (n=ajmitch@120.89.80.154) |
| 21:02.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (n=TC@cpe-76-169-229-41.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 21:03.15 | Thunder_Child | huh...having 2 of the exact same monitors connecting to the same card on two different connections shows obvious differences |
| 21:08.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=EAndre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 21:08.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:11.23 | Duman | hmm |
| 21:15.25 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202209241.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 21:16.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Fisker: it's kinda creepy seeing you /not/ trolling |
| 21:17.52 | Lunessa | New mac arrived... back later |
| 21:18.00 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 21:18.31 | durcyn | he better bring unbox porn back with him. |
| 21:19.23 | Thunder_Child | it's mac porn though |
| 21:19.39 | NightHawkTheSane | that's the best kind of unbox porn |
| 21:21.52 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim6270 (n=p3lim@084202209241.customer.alfanett.no) |
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| 21:42.56 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: either (a) Fisker sold his account, or (b) Someone's put something in Fisker's town water |
| 21:43.44 | NightHawkTheSane | bleeter: if it's b, can we pay them to keep doing it? |
| 21:44.06 | bleeter | I hope so, NightHawkTheSane. I truly do! |
| 21:44.35 | bleeter | 'coz then I might be able to get my hands on the stuff, too ;) |
| 21:44.52 | durcyn | first one's free, fifty bucks a hit after that |
| 21:44.55 | ScytheBlade1 | bleeter: on the bnet forums |
| 21:45.48 | bleeter | cog|work: lemme a fiver??!! |
| 21:46.53 | cog|work | aud? sure ;) |
| 21:47.12 | cog|work | "Two Mexican Midget Wrestlers Killed by Fake Prostitutes" http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529935,00.html?mrp |
| 21:47.25 | bleeter | cog|work: ain't gunna be zimbabwe dollars now, is it?! |
| 21:47.28 | ScytheBlade1 | ... that's an awesome story for fox news |
| 21:47.58 | Dagmar | Better news... |
| 21:48.07 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202209241.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 21:48.14 | Dagmar | "'Harry Potter' Star Could Face 14 Years for Growing Marijuana Farm" http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,530669,00.html?mrp |
| 21:48.16 | Dagmar | Screw Crabbe |
| 21:48.39 | cog|work | bleeter: your fivers are cheap ;) |
| 21:48.57 | cog|work | !g 5 aud in usd |
| 21:48.58 | batbot | cog|work: Aud/Usd; Wave 5) in Progress? <http://www.forexfactory.com/news.php?do=news&id=178288> |
| 21:49.03 | bleeter | cog|work: what can I say.. I'm cheap.. but not as cheap as if I were in Zimbabwe |
| 21:49.20 | cog|work | ~lart !g |
| 21:49.20 | purl | cats /dev/urandom into !g's ear |
| 21:49.27 | durcyn | aw, Oscar Mayer died. |
| 21:49.43 | bleeter | "As with almost every other major currency, the Australian dollar gained against the US dollar, after a very powerful rebound off the daily blue trend-line support that we mentioned on Tuesday." |
| 21:49.49 | durcyn | i wonder if they'll bury him in a miniature wienermobile |
| 21:49.49 | bleeter | bwhahahaha |
| 21:50.25 | Dagmar | More likely they'll just soak him in preservatives, roll him in a skin wrapper and then tie the ends off |
| 21:50.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Addys (n=adys@AMarseille-252-1-51-92.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:51.52 | bleeter | cog|work: about USD$4.. after fees etc. it'll prolly be more like USD$6 :P |
| 21:52.26 | cog|work | i'll send you a bill for the fees ;) |
| 21:52.43 | bleeter | 1 US Dollar = 37,456,777 Zimbabwe Dollar |
| 21:52.52 | bleeter | 1 Zimbabwe Dollar (ZWD) = 0.00000003 US Dollar (USD) |
| 21:52.57 | bleeter | harsh |
| 21:53.43 | Dashkal | That currency is in amazing freefall. They've already chopped a few zeroes off |
| 21:54.45 | Dagmar | Shush |
| 21:54.58 | Dagmar | At the rate they're going I'll be able to buy the whole damn country in two more months |
| 21:55.01 | Dagmar | Don't spoil it |
| 21:55.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Buuyo (n=josh@24.64.240.174) |
| 21:55.27 | bleeter | 07/31/2008 57381544140.0 |
| 21:55.28 | bleeter | 08/01/2008 6.5690 |
| 21:55.30 | bleeter | lol |
| 21:55.32 | Dashkal | *blinks* they made a wow themed peggle now. Guess they had to after the peggle wow addon |
| 21:55.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@76-231-27-217.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:56.15 | bleeter | Dashkal: actually, looks like they've locked it off.. or something. |
| 21:56.21 | bleeter | http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxhistory |
| 21:56.34 | bleeter | take a look at the 12 month track... ugh painful |
| 21:56.47 | bleeter | but gets stuck around 02/04/2009 |
| 21:57.07 | Dashkal | mmm |
| 21:57.09 | Dashkal | not surprised |
| 21:57.25 | Dashkal | with the currency doing that, there was no point in using it. Barter |
| 21:58.07 | Dagmar | Sometimes the roll is empty |
| 21:58.57 | Buuyo | How do does one loop through the guild member list and grab info on everyone both online and offline? |
| 21:59.45 | *** part/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@76-231-27-217.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:00.01 | Buuyo | I noticed there's a GetGuildRosterInfo(index) function, but i'm not sure how to handle 'index'. Is that just something I can start with 0 and increment until the function returns nil? |
| 22:00.10 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 22:00.16 | Duman | hmm |
| 22:00.24 | VonhintenHOME` | ~api Guild |
| 22:00.25 | purl | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_Guild |
| 22:00.33 | Buuyo | I've been looking there. :P |
| 22:00.48 | VonhintenHOME` | hmm, that didn't work |
| 22:00.49 | Buuyo | wel,l not that page in particula |
| 22:00.49 | cog|work | !api Guild |
| 22:01.01 | Buuyo | but ive been scanning over the api list for guild related functions :P |
| 22:01.03 | lua_bot | Found 115 possible matches for 'Guild'. Please be more specific |
| 22:01.33 | Buuyo | There's an event I know for guild roster updates to the client's cache, but the nearest thing I can find is a way to check for only online players. |
| 22:02.01 | VonhintenHOME` | GetNumGuildMembers |
| 22:02.48 | cog|work | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/events/GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE |
| 22:02.55 | jnwhiteh | Buuyo: GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE is the event, and the index is between 1 and GetNumGuildMembers |
| 22:03.11 | Buuyo | jnwhiteh, that's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. |
| 22:03.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow1722 (n=Miranda@bams-c151.cust.svensktbredband.se) |
| 22:05.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@92.27.220.228) |
| 22:06.56 | durcyn | make sure you use GetNumGuildMembers(true) if you want offline as well |
| 22:07.06 | durcyn | and don't do something dumb like toggle the online/offline display on the UI |
| 22:07.12 | Kaso | is it not possible to macro Judgement of Wisdom/Light in such a way as to not loose target when doing targetarget stuff, i guess because its a melee strike it doesnt work the same |
| 22:09.30 | NightHawkTheSane | you mean like /cast [target=targettarget] Judgement of Wisdom? |
| 22:09.43 | NightHawkTheSane | (or whatever the ToT unitid actually is) |
| 22:09.44 | Buuyo | Does /cast [target=targettarget] Judgement of Light not work? I use things like /cast [target=mytank-target] Judgement of Light quite a bit on my pala. |
| 22:10.18 | Kaso | doing /cast [target=targettarget] always switches your target to the enemy |
| 22:10.25 | Kaso | also tried doing /targetlasttarget |
| 22:10.32 | NightHawkTheSane | it shouldn't... |
| 22:10.49 | Buuyo | it sets your target if you dont have one I think |
| 22:10.55 | Buuyo | but ive n ever had it change my current target |
| 22:12.01 | Kaso | my macro is /cast [harm,nodead][target=targettarget,harm,nodead] Judgement of whatever |
| 22:12.15 | bleeter | me posts some old code again to watch people's reaction... http://users.on.net/~bleeter/code/compile_this.c |
| 22:12.20 | bleeter | bah |
| 22:12.22 | bleeter | posts some old code again to watch people's reaction... http://users.on.net/~bleeter/code/compile_this.c |
| 22:12.34 | Kaso | but when targetting friendly i always end up with enemy targetted after casting |
| 22:13.01 | Buuyo | bleeter, is this that ancient days of christmas code? |
| 22:13.05 | nicoli_s | that looks fun bleeter, did you enter that in a code obfuscation contest or something? |
| 22:13.12 | Kaso | lol no chance in hell im compiling something like that ;p |
| 22:13.22 | bleeter | nicoli_s: nah not my code, I think it predates the IOCC |
| 22:13.33 | Buuyo | I remember seeing that shit 10 years ago heh. |
| 22:13.38 | bleeter | Kaso: compile it... then step thru it with a debugger if you don't trust me :P |
| 22:13.52 | Kaso | that takes far too much effort1 |
| 22:14.00 | bleeter | hehe |
| 22:14.00 | Buuyo | http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/tball/papers/xmasgift/ |
| 22:14.05 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:14.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 22:14.05 | Buuyo | ^ This is someone taking it apart |
| 22:14.11 | Buuyo | Almost as interesting as what it does. |
| 22:14.16 | bleeter | Buuyo: yup |
| 22:14.45 | bleeter | my brother sent it to me last night and I was 'wtf this shit is old... gah kids these days!' ... thus I posted it here. apologies to the old hands ;) |
| 22:15.27 | nevcairiel | hm it wont compile in visual studio |
| 22:15.32 | nevcairiel | starts linux vm |
| 22:15.36 | Buuyo | It compiles in the old gcc's |
| 22:15.44 | nevcairiel | i only have new gccs |
| 22:15.47 | nevcairiel | crys |
| 22:15.49 | Buuyo | I dunno about new ones. But no -Wall or -ansi or -pedantic :p |
| 22:17.29 | nevcairiel | lol wtf |
| 22:17.32 | nevcairiel | thats amazing =P |
| 22:17.50 | Buuyo | I posted a link to a pathing analysis of it. |
| 22:18.04 | Buuyo | I showed it to my comp sci prof a long time ago and he couldn't figure it out :p |
| 22:19.00 | nevcairiel | just fyi, recent gccs compile it fine |
| 22:19.12 | jnwhiteh | yeah |
| 22:19.17 | jnwhiteh | macosx default worked just fine |
| 22:19.21 | jnwhiteh | and thats impressive :P |
| 22:20.50 | Buuyo | I dont know if anyone knows who wrote it originally |
| 22:21.19 | Buuyo | http://mysite.verizon.net/les.peters/id2.html <-- a good one too ;) |
| 22:21.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-68-57-187-183.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:22.26 | bleeter | for anyone who gets a kick outta that kinda foo, http://www0.us.ioccc.org/main.html |
| 22:23.22 | nevcairiel | you don't even have to try to obfuscate perl |
| 22:23.38 | nevcairiel | it just happens |
| 22:23.49 | Buuyo | My old boss used to compare perl to line noise |
| 22:24.25 | Dagmar | Obfuscated perl happens when you don't beat your coders enough |
| 22:29.33 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 22:37.51 | Buuyo | Hmm. |
| 22:38.09 | Buuyo | GetNumGuildMembers(true) is returning 0 for me despite being in a guild with many members. heh. |
| 22:38.49 | tekkub | when |
| 22:38.53 | tekkub | login? |
| 22:39.07 | foxlit | there might be something about refreshing the guild roster anyway. |
| 22:39.09 | Buuyo | In a slash command. It's a race condition however. |
| 22:39.34 | Buuyo | if I run the command twice GuildRoster() gets time. I'll have to make an event handler for it and handle this async. |
| 22:39.41 | Buuyo | :/ |
| 22:39.51 | tekkub | yes, you need to do it on the update event |
| 22:40.08 | tekkub | your slash should request a roster and register for the event |
| 22:45.59 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* i wish newegg wasnt located in CA |
| 22:46.17 | AnduinLothar | why, tzx? |
| 22:46.35 | Thunder_Child | yep, $125 good reasons not to |
| 22:46.36 | NightHawkTheSane | i wish newegg was located in my pants. |
| 22:46.44 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 22:46.57 | Thunder_Child | you could not afford it |
| 22:49.05 | jnwhiteh | Buuyo: you have to call GuildRoster() and then wait for the update, pretty much everything must be done async. |
| 22:49.40 | Buuyo | jnwhiteh, yeah. Also interestingly GuildRoster() will not signal the event if it's been about 10 seconds since the last call. |
| 22:50.00 | jnwhiteh | so says the documentation: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GuildRoster |
| 22:50.04 | Buuyo | yar |
| 22:50.28 | Buuyo | so I'll fairly likely have to maintain my own internal roster in an array. Update as necessary. |
| 22:50.47 | jnwhiteh | correct |
| 22:50.51 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:50.53 | jnwhiteh | err |
| 22:50.56 | jnwhiteh | you want to do that eitehr way |
| 22:51.23 | foxlit | what, the API doesn't keep its own cache? |
| 22:51.49 | jnwhiteh | it does, yes. |
| 22:52.00 | jnwhiteh | in the GetGuildRosterInfo() |
| 22:52.08 | jnwhiteh | but if you're going to be using it alot, its better to store it locally |
| 22:53.25 | Buuyo | Oh beautiful. There we go. We're in business. ;) |
| 23:02.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@129.7.90.176) |
| 23:03.07 | Lunessa | Station |
| 23:04.20 | Lunessa | new iMac just broke it's seal - so deliciously fast. |
| 23:06.00 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 23:07.25 | Lunessa | I know, I know... I'm geeking out over a work machine. But... I has a happy. |
| 23:08.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabies3 (n=mrrabies@166.137.5.180) |
| 23:12.34 | durcyn | Lunessa: pics or gtfo |
| 23:13.10 | jnwhiteh | yeah serious |
| 23:13.13 | jnwhiteh | where were the unboxing pics |
| 23:13.32 | Lunessa | Product pic - http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac?mco=MTE3MDQ |
| 23:13.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Lunessa: as long as you aren't one of th-- ... those freaks who take pictures as youunbox your mac... |
| 23:13.40 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 23:13.45 | NightHawkTheSane | hah |
| 23:14.14 | Lunessa | Hrm... I suppose I could bluetooth some pics from my crappy blackberry perl... |
| 23:14.24 | ScytheBlade1 | No! |
| 23:14.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I mean |
| 23:14.27 | ScytheBlade1 | No need |
| 23:14.32 | ScytheBlade1 | !g mac unboxing party pictures |
| 23:14.33 | batbot | ScytheBlade1: iPhone repair rental unboxing photos - Mac Forums <http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=341301> |
| 23:14.38 | ScytheBlade1 | bah |
| 23:14.46 | ScytheBlade1 | not what I was hoping for |
| 23:15.33 | Lunessa | The problem is, I can't shoot pics of the box with the iSight. |
| 23:15.50 | NightHawkTheSane | you have a cell with a camera? :P |
| 23:16.38 | Lunessa | My crappy Blackberry Pearl. |
| 23:16.56 | Dagmar | Why can't you folks look at porno like NORMAL people |
| 23:16.58 | NightHawkTheSane | better than no unboxing porn :P |
| 23:17.10 | Dagmar | Unboxing photos for a loaner phone... Pfft. |
| 23:17.29 | batrick | How can the federal government be concerned about antitrust problems with Google and its forthcoming operating system when Microsoft controls most of the OS market? |
| 23:17.52 | batrick | ""Another: it opens new competition with Microsoft and, potentially, a new reason for antitrust regulators to pay close attention to Google's moves."" |
| 23:19.06 | batrick | (http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/07/08/google.chrome.os/index.html) |
| 23:19.14 | Dagmar | YEs because obviously the only thing that can successfully challenge a monopoly is another monopoly |
| 23:19.22 | Dagmar | That's just so retarded |
| 23:20.49 | jnwhiteh | goodnight! |
| 23:21.01 | mikma | nn |
| 23:27.44 | Lunessa | So lame. Blackberry won't let me upload the media card contents via bluetooth. Need a stupid cable, which is at home. |
| 23:27.57 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 23:27.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 23:29.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabies3_ (n=mrrabies@166.137.5.37) |
| 23:30.19 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, ideally, you start keeping an eye on a company *before* it becomes a monopoly, not *after* |
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| 23:31.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 23:31.53 | theorbtwo | Er, the thing is being a monopoly isn't illegal. |
| 23:32.12 | theorbtwo | What's illegal is using your monopoly powers in one market to push your position in another market. |
| 23:32.29 | ZorbaTHut | sure, but being an abusive monopoly is, and many monopolies turn abusive one way or another |
| 23:32.54 | ZorbaTHut | also, look at what google's doing. they have a near-monopoly in one market, and they're releasing a free product, designed to interoperate, in a completely different market |
| 23:33.04 | theorbtwo | Like, say, using your position as seller of advertising on the internet to push your position as a provider of operating systems for phones and desktop computers. |
| 23:33.09 | ZorbaTHut | I don't actually believe they're being an abusive monopoly, but there are very few flags in that situation that *aren't* red. |
| 23:33.20 | theorbtwo | ZorbaTHut: My point exactly. |
| 23:33.50 | ZorbaTHut | personally I'm glad someone's keeping an eye on 'em. :) |
| 23:34.36 | theorbtwo | Interestingly, I bet it's going to go "Fed: You are providing it for free. You must be using your monopoly bankroll to try to undercut microsoft and then raise prices when *you* become a major player." Google: "What? It's so cheap because it cost us a dollar fifty!" |
| 23:35.21 | Dagmar | Pretty much |
| 23:36.08 | Dagmar | The problem being that GOogle isn't really likely to advertise the OS beyond just letting it show up on Google Labs |
| 23:36.19 | batrick | I doubt that |
| 23:36.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabies3__ (n=mrrabies@166.137.4.23) |
| 23:36.31 | batrick | crushing microsoft is something I believe they all want over there |
| 23:36.32 | Dagmar | It's not like they took out magazine ads for Chrome |
| 23:36.38 | Dagmar | ...unlike certain other companies |
| 23:36.38 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I bet it's going to be showing up on netcomputers within a year |
| 23:36.50 | Dagmar | I doubt it. |
| 23:36.51 | ZorbaTHut | the end-user isn't the market for it, the manufacturer is |
| 23:37.00 | batrick | I think Google might only have problems with antitrust if they put google search and docs on the books by default |
| 23:37.04 | batrick | on the OS* |
| 23:37.06 | Dagmar | Unless Google starts making netbooks, Microsoft already locked that market up |
| 23:37.08 | ZorbaTHut | the manufacturer just has to be convinced that the end-user won't hate it |
| 23:37.25 | ZorbaTHut | the only reason ms has locked that market up is because there wasn't a competitor |
| 23:37.26 | Dagmar | Or the manufacturer could be given money to install it |
| 23:37.29 | ZorbaTHut | now there's a competitor :P |
| 23:37.45 | theorbtwo | ZorbaTHut: There was, kind of, but it was very disjoint. |
| 23:37.54 | Dagmar | MS locked that market up by offering free tech support and fifteen dollar licences |
| 23:37.57 | theorbtwo | For a while, it was linux, linux, and linux. |
| 23:37.58 | batrick | I wish the damn government would go after computer manufactors for putting microsoft on the computers by default |
| 23:38.03 | batrick | that shit pisses me off |
| 23:38.22 | Dagmar | ..a.nd then suddenly, almost overnight, all the Linux netbooks disappeared and were replaced with Microsoft |
| 23:38.36 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, MS realized there was a market and moved into it :) |
| 23:38.37 | Dagmar | ...and in the very same month, somehow Microsoft's sales went to nearly 100% on netbooks |
| 23:38.52 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, you can get computers without Windows installed |
| 23:39.00 | theorbtwo | Part of that is because linux is a scary name. When it becomes "google's new operating system", it will be much more popular. |
| 23:39.05 | Dagmar | Not unless you build them yoursefl |
| 23:39.09 | ZorbaTHut | I don't blame most companies for installing it by default, most people want it :P |
| 23:39.16 | Lunessa | batrick: It was part of the anti-trust suit in the 90s |
| 23:39.26 | Dagmar | Jumping through hoops to get your money back for the copy of Windows that came whether you wanted it or not is NOT the same thing |
| 23:39.34 | ZorbaTHut | http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/home/mini_laptop_deals/fs.aspx?refid=mini_laptop_deals&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1 <-- leftmost computer, look at "operating system" |
| 23:39.52 | batrick | uh, you can't get microsoft free laptops from main manufactors |
| 23:39.53 | theorbtwo | bets this is a US/EU thing. |
| 23:39.56 | Dagmar | I can mail order machines with Be on them. Doens't mean much. |
| 23:39.59 | batrick | e.g. Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. |
| 23:40.03 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, Dell isn't a main manufacturor? |
| 23:40.06 | ZorbaTHut | again, look at that link. |
| 23:40.07 | theorbtwo | batrick: You mean in the US, right? |
| 23:40.08 | Dagmar | Good luck finding anything with linux on it in a store in the US |
| 23:40.18 | theorbtwo | Exactly. |
| 23:40.23 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, it disproves the original point made |
| 23:40.27 | batrick | ya but all those linux PCs cost extra and you have severely limited choices for hardware |
| 23:40.27 | Dagmar | No it doesnt'. |
| 23:40.30 | ZorbaTHut | you *can* get computers with Linux on them, without much extra trouble |
| 23:40.40 | theorbtwo | ZorbaTHut: If you live in Europe, yes. |
| 23:40.52 | Dagmar | *I* can, but that's because I can have them shipped from China with little fuzzy critters painted on them |
| 23:41.00 | Dagmar | Joe User stands zero chance |
| 23:41.02 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs <-- here's Dell's Ubuntu US page |
| 23:41.12 | ZorbaTHut | so you can get them in the US also :P |
| 23:41.14 | Dagmar | Those people won't ever even know it's available |
| 23:41.23 | batrick | ZorbaTHut: have you looked at the prices and choices? |
| 23:41.23 | Dagmar | Call Dell. |
| 23:41.27 | Dagmar | Talk to their sales people |
| 23:41.27 | batrick | Dell blows. |
| 23:41.34 | Dagmar | Watch how they try to steer you away from Linux |
| 23:41.41 | Dagmar | I'm not even kidding about that |
| 23:41.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Tyler (n=chatzill@pool-72-70-12-94.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:41.48 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, you're backpedaling. we've gone from "you can't get it" to "you can't get it from major manufacturors" to "you can't get from dell in the US" to "well, at least you can't get it easily" |
| 23:41.57 | batrick | no you can't get it |
| 23:41.59 | Dagmar | I'm not backpedaling |
| 23:41.59 | NightHawkTheSane | you can actually search on amazon and easily find several netbooks with linux loaded... |
| 23:42.02 | Dagmar | You can't gte it. |
| 23:42.04 | batrick | that is a ploy by Dell to shut up the government |
| 23:42.11 | batrick | Microsoft probably encourages it. |
| 23:42.17 | Dagmar | Mail ordering it doesn't matter because you can mail order just about anything. |
| 23:42.20 | batrick | You don't see Linux PCs at the store |
| 23:42.22 | ZorbaTHut | you're seriously claiming that if I clicked "buy" on that page, dell would refuse to sell me a computer? |
| 23:42.29 | batrick | no |
| 23:42.29 | Guest61832 | anyone know how to get the percentage of damage your armor blocks? |
| 23:42.42 | batrick | I'm saying it exists to show to the government that people have choices when tthey really don't |
| 23:42.42 | Dagmar | If you try to find that in a brick and mortar store, INCLUDING Dell kiosks at malls, you will _not_ find anything running Linux for sale |
| 23:42.53 | Dagmar | I actually "did the rounds" here two months ago |
| 23:42.58 | batrick | the main way their market their computers, at stores like ?Best Buy, do NOT offer linux pcs |
| 23:43.03 | Dagmar | I'm very sure there's not a single linux-equipped netbook for sale in Nashville. |
| 23:43.05 | Corrodias | you don't find linux preloaded on computers at a store because nobody would buy them. |
| 23:43.17 | Corrodias | what linux user is going to use a prebuilt pc from Dell? |
| 23:43.25 | Dagmar | Corrodias: The netbooks were actually selling pretty well |
| 23:43.29 | NightHawkTheSane | also, doesn't wal*mart sell cheap computers loaded with *nix? |
| 23:43.33 | batrick | impoverished people will buy them |
| 23:43.35 | Corrodias | what linux user isn't going to want to fine-tune their own distro? |
| 23:43.37 | Dagmar | Not anymore they don't. |
| 23:43.54 | batrick | if you have the option not to pay 100$ more dollars for a M$ then people will not buy them |
| 23:43.56 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont keep up with what wal*mart does.. so |
| 23:43.56 | Corrodias | netbooks were selling well? but they didn't have linux, right? because they don't sell that in stores. |
| 23:43.56 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: Every computer *in* a Wal-Mart will be running Windows |
| 23:44.01 | Dagmar | That's the first place I went looking actually |
| 23:44.34 | Dagmar | Corrodias: Are you unaware that the vast majority of the first netbooks were shipping with Linux only? |
| 23:44.38 | Corrodias | notebooks might be a special case, because it's hard to build one yourself |
| 23:45.00 | Dagmar | One of the ways the companies got the price point down below $350 was by putting Linux on them |
| 23:45.08 | Corrodias | Dagmar: so... linux -was- available, on a computer, in a store |
| 23:45.15 | Corrodias | i thought you said that the problem was that it -wasn't-? |
| 23:45.16 | Dagmar | Corrodias: And now is no longer |
| 23:45.30 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202209241.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 23:45.38 | Corrodias | oh. did they just discontinue this supposedly well-selling product, or what happened? |
| 23:45.39 | Dagmar | Most of the netbooks were running Linux and then literally overnight they all got pulled |
| 23:46.09 | Dagmar | s/literally/figuratively/ |
| 23:46.40 | batrick | I had to buy a laptop with windows on them because there really was no choice in the matter. |
| 23:46.47 | batrick | even though first thing I did was take it off |
| 23:47.09 | batrick | Websites that claim to sell linux laptops actually buy windows laptops from places like Dell and then change the OS |
| 23:47.29 | Guest61832 | can someone answer an addon question for me? |
| 23:47.41 | batrick | ~asktoask |
| 23:47.42 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 23:47.52 | Guest61832 | >im trying to get the percentage of damage blocked by a persons armor and I wasnt able to find that function anywhere, does it exist? |
| 23:48.05 | Guest61832 | all i can get is the amount but not the percent |
| 23:48.14 | batrick | I believe you use combat events for that |
| 23:48.26 | batrick | goes to look |
| 23:48.37 | Dagmar | far as I know you'd have to compute it |
| 23:48.44 | NightHawkTheSane | ... if you have the amount of damage avoided due to armor, isn't calculating the percentage trivial arithmatic? |
| 23:48.44 | Guest61832 | figures :/ |
| 23:49.05 | Corrodias | maybe we should stop buying these prebuilt laptops and force the big manufacturers to just make build-your-own shit like we use for desktops |
| 23:49.25 | theorbtwo | For laptops? |
| 23:49.29 | Dagmar | hah |
| 23:49.36 | batrick | there are build-you-own laptops |
| 23:49.41 | batrick | but there is no choice for OS |
| 23:49.49 | Corrodias | it would have no OS |
| 23:49.49 | theorbtwo | batrick: I've heard of them. I've never *seen* them. |
| 23:49.54 | Corrodias | you'd buy ah ard drive. |
| 23:49.58 | Dagmar | They'd be expensive as hell I suspect |
| 23:50.02 | Thunder_Child | meh Corrodias, i have enough iritation building my own towers, i dont need to make it worse with a laptop |
| 23:50.25 | batrick | wowwiki is so fucking slow today |
| 23:50.31 | batrick | fuck it |
| 23:50.31 | theorbtwo | The thing is sockets eat space. |
| 23:50.46 | batrick | Guest61832: look for the COMBAT_LOG_UNFILTERED event or whatever |
| 23:50.48 | theorbtwo | Also, cases that you can get into and muck about with and put back together eat space. |
| 23:50.57 | batrick | one of the arguments tells you how mmuch damage was blocked |
| 23:51.02 | batrick | if i recall correctly |
| 23:51.22 | theorbtwo | Laptops, especially these days, focus on small and densely packed. Every cubic millimeter must be doing the most that it can. |
| 23:51.59 | theorbtwo | A friend of mine once bought an alienware thing that was supposed to be a laptop with lots of reconfigurability and upgradability. |
| 23:52.33 | theorbtwo | ...but when it worked, it was heavy and akward, and quickly it turned out that unless you had it propped up *just* right, it didn't work. |
| 23:52.44 | theorbtwo | ...and I hear alienware stopped making parts for it. |
| 23:53.01 | Thunder_Child | alienware is a shit company anyway |
| 23:53.10 | theorbtwo | Yep. |
| 23:54.36 | Lunessa | Alienware - overpriced crap. |
| 23:55.12 | Dagmar | Yep.. |
| 23:55.28 | Thunder_Child | not jsut that. any company that requires you to have an account with them (that can only be created at the time of purchase) to download drivers is complete shit |
| 23:55.40 | foxlit | "Q) Where's all the trash? |
| 23:55.40 | foxlit | A) There isn't any in this raid zone. Really. " |
| 23:55.44 | foxlit | Whaaaaaaat! |
| 23:56.18 | Corrodias | but you can always get them from the manufacturer or popular mirrors, can't you? |
| 23:56.28 | theorbtwo | My current laptop has four ports that are designed to be user-accessable -- RAM, mini-PCI, "PC Card", and battery. |
| 23:56.31 | theorbtwo | ...and I love it. |
| 23:56.34 | Corrodias | or hardware... uh, developer... whatever they're called |
| 23:57.05 | Lunessa | Manufacturer |
| 23:57.11 | theorbtwo | It's light, and it just fucking works. I couldn't make a better laptop, and I mean that quite literally. |
| 23:57.15 | Corrodias | nvidia, for example |
| 23:57.23 | Thunder_Child | Corrodias, and you would know who they are how? also there was not popular mirrors for what i was looking for |
| 23:57.27 | theorbtwo | They're now a brand name of Dell, IIRC. |
| 23:57.44 | Dagmar | Which totally makes sense |
| 23:58.07 | Corrodias | i suppose nvidia either makes or contracts the construction of the GPU's. but i don't know when the actual video cards are put together. |
| 23:58.15 | Dagmar | ...considering that the only "cheap" Dell computers are the ones you get when you call the Home sales division and buy a bare-bones machine |
| 23:58.44 | Dagmar | Corrodias: OEMs make the cards and put the nVidia chips on them |
| 23:58.59 | theorbtwo | Corrodias: IIRC, nvidia doesn't make video cards, or sell them. They only make chips, and only sell to people who make boards. |
| 23:59.10 | Corrodias | so just what do we call nvidia? they're not the "manufacturer". designer? developer? |
| 23:59.29 | theorbtwo | Ah, they are the mfgr -- of the chip, not the card. |
