| 00:03.30 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:03.40 | *** join/#wowuidev bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 00:03.50 | bleetah | Dolby: http://img.runlevel6.org/W3C%20Twitter.png |
| 00:03.56 | bleetah | n.. other website maintainers |
| 00:06.14 | Kaelten | bleetah: that'd have my endorsement |
| 00:06.17 | Kaelten | and on that note, poof |
| 00:07.48 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 00:09.46 | *** part/#wowuidev bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 00:16.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-68-57-187-183.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 00:17.48 | Thunder_Child | http://fukung.net/v/810/060427_vhs.jpg |
| 00:17.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Syzgyn (n=ghost429@75.138.80.103) |
| 00:18.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Aiiane (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu) |
| 00:18.50 | Lopeppeppy | Why does Lara Croft get a package from UPS when she lives in England? |
| 00:19.11 | Thunder_Child | does UPS not ship international? |
| 00:19.33 | Lopeppeppy | They do, but usually I thought packages were delivered by subcontract in other countries. |
| 00:21.01 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 00:25.21 | Kirov | Lopeppeppy - because it was made by americans, and UPS paid them for the advertisement? |
| 00:25.56 | dardack | is NUM_BAG_SLOTS one of those CVar things? |
| 00:26.08 | theorbtwo | UPS has direct operations in many countries, and subcontracts in others. |
| 00:26.31 | theorbtwo | I'm not sure which category the UK falls in. |
| 00:27.24 | theorbtwo | They certianly aren't popular over here, if they exist at all. |
| 00:27.35 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 00:54.34 | Ackis | wtb clique and spellbinder working for dual specs |
| 00:54.45 | Thunder_Child | didnt know that Fisker- was on fukung http://fukung.net/v/10271/d55fe82e3e218d94a833fea657735fbe.jpg |
| 00:54.58 | Lopeppeppy | Ackis, I thought Clique did work already? |
| 00:54.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-68-57-187-183.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 00:55.05 | Ackis | i dunno |
| 00:55.07 | Thunder_Child | Ackis, it does |
| 00:55.09 | Thunder_Child | go to options |
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| 01:00.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 01:04.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@82.111.113.184) |
| 01:16.37 | Lopeppeppy | ttfn! |
| 01:16.48 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-184-95.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 01:16.51 | Thunder_Child | http://fukung.net/v/16583/92a418fb0f3d121cc19aa26ea4b7ac1d.jpg |
| 01:19.03 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Thunder_Child: win |
| 01:21.56 | ScytheBlade1 | ah, the wonders of star trek |
| 01:22.14 | Thunder_Child | quite |
| 01:23.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Orangestick (n=eric_lim@90.212.48.60.jb01-home.tm.net.my) |
| 01:34.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost2 (n=Shirik@ppp182-71.broadband.gorge.net) |
| 01:34.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 01:36.24 | Thunder_Child | http://fukung.net/v/11480/9c50dae7abaee7a40f2165cc8284fb62.png |
| 01:37.17 | Shirik | rawr |
| 01:37.22 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 01:37.26 | Shirik | huggles Gryphen |
| 01:37.30 | Gryphen | huggles Shirik |
| 01:42.10 | Cairenn | Thunder_Child: I approve of the above post |
| 01:42.39 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn, i found it amusing |
| 01:42.59 | kd3 | lol |
| 01:43.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Orangestic (n=eric_lim@118.100.105.85) |
| 01:43.04 | kd3 | that's pretty amusing |
| 01:47.20 | Shirik | I like how for the last 10 minutes, the wow updater has said "Estimated time left: less than 2 minutes" |
| 01:47.28 | kd3 | har |
| 01:48.10 | Shirik | please tell me we're on 3.1.1 |
| 01:48.29 | airtonix | ??!?! |
| 01:48.30 | kd3 | 3.1.3 |
| 01:48.40 | airtonix | i see no update pending |
| 01:48.50 | airtonix | only rolling restarts last night |
| 01:49.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (n=Shirik@209.216.190.123) |
| 01:50.43 | Guest58105 | I may not ghost shirik |
| 01:50.50 | Guest58105 | DENIED |
| 01:50.53 | airtonix | Thunder_Child, is there a comparison like that one for tamuz, jesus and mithra? |
| 01:50.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Guest58105] by ChanServ |
| 01:50.58 | kd3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:51.12 | Shirik | Apparently we're actually on 3.1.3 |
| 01:51.14 | Shirik | yay more downloading |
| 01:51.28 | Torhal | Shirik: WHen was the last time you played WoW? :) |
| 01:51.28 | airtonix | Shirik, when did you last update? |
| 01:51.29 | kd3 | have you been too busy working on minion to play? |
| 01:51.35 | Shirik | about 2-3 months ago |
| 01:51.39 | airtonix | lulz |
| 01:52.00 | Shirik | what patch are we really on? |
| 01:52.14 | Shirik | lol @ "less than 2 minutes" |
| 01:52.25 | Torhal | 3.1.3 |
| 01:52.30 | airtonix | WoW-3.1.2.9901-to-3.1.3.9947-enUS-patch |
| 02:01.27 | Cide | http://dev.ctmud.net:81/ -- anyone want to test this and tell me how the initial design looks? |
| 02:01.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 02:01.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 02:01.51 | Cide | will probably need some beta testers during the coming weeks too |
| 02:03.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Korenl (n=koren@97-95-35-149.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 02:03.53 | Thunder_Child | airtonix, i have no idea |
| 02:05.34 | airtonix | Thunder_Child, doesnt really matter, but they are all having pretty much same points too |
| 02:05.53 | airtonix | mythmakers, when will they stop? |
| 02:06.08 | Thunder_Child | Cide, the section frames @ http://dev.ctmud.net:81/behind-the-game/ is kinda eye tearing |
| 02:06.14 | Shirik | lol |
| 02:06.16 | Shirik | I log in |
| 02:06.23 | Shirik | "HEY WELCOME BACK NOW COME TO 25 ULDUAR TY" |
| 02:06.25 | Cide | those are very not done |
| 02:06.54 | Cide | frames? |
| 02:06.54 | airtonix | [ninja sounds] |
| 02:08.10 | Thunder_Child | Cide, the white lines around each persons block of text |
| 02:08.27 | Cide | it's missing a lot of art |
| 02:10.35 | Thunder_Child | i cant belive combat is timed |
| 02:10.46 | Cide | why not? |
| 02:10.49 | *** join/#wowuidev sacarasc (i=sacarasc@cpc3-kemp3-0-0-cust48.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 02:11.20 | Thunder_Child | it's browser based...you may want to some something other than click....like walk away for a moment....or go to another tab |
| 02:11.24 | Thunder_Child | or do some work |
| 02:11.30 | Cide | so do that when you're not in combat |
| 02:11.32 | Thunder_Child | a lot of web browser games are done at work |
| 02:11.35 | AnduinLothar | mmmm tacos |
| 02:11.40 | Cide | but your suggestion is noted |
| 02:11.42 | Cide | besides |
| 02:11.55 | Cide | in pvp you don't want to sit around and wait for the other player for a decade |
| 02:12.00 | Cide | or if you're playing several people in a party |
| 02:15.14 | AnduinLothar | i have 5 del taco paper bags next to my computer.... |
| 02:15.32 | Thunder_Child | http://fukung.net/v/9037/untitled.jpg |
| 02:19.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 02:31.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@95.222.224.90) |
| 02:32.03 | kd3 | hm... 2 minutes left |
| 02:32.37 | dardack | can someone tell my why print fires like 6 times when there is only 1 item in my bags: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/115751 |
| 02:35.13 | Torhal | dardack: for slot=1, GetContainerNumSlots(bag) do |
| 02:35.20 | Torhal | That says "Do this for every bag slot" |
| 02:35.24 | kd3 | oh wow. detroit's going empty net |
| 02:35.49 | mikma | they got nothing to lose... wait, what? |
| 02:36.57 | dardack | Torhal: yea i know but that doesnt explain why the print fires 6 times inside the If statement |
| 02:37.36 | mikma | insert break |
| 02:37.40 | Torhal | Because you have, I assume, a 6 slot bag, and you're telling it to do this for every bag slot. You're not checking for an item, or that it's performed the action, and brekaing out of the loop. |
| 02:38.28 | Cairenn | SHIT! |
| 02:38.33 | Torhal | Cairenn: I refuse! |
| 02:38.35 | kd3 | hello game 7 |
| 02:38.40 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:38.58 | Cairenn | that breakaway was so sweet, I thought we were going to tie it up there |
| 02:39.01 | kd3 | you've gotta admit, that was a hell of a set of saves right there at the end |
| 02:39.06 | Cairenn | DAMNIT |
| 02:39.10 | Cairenn | yes, it was |
| 02:39.11 | Cairenn | but DAMN |
| 02:39.13 | Cairenn | lol |
| 02:39.23 | Cairenn | sorry, hockey |
| 02:39.25 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 02:39.31 | Cairenn | is SUCH a Canadian ;) |
| 02:39.49 | dardack | torhal i have 4 20 slot bags |
| 02:39.57 | dardack | so the if is what fires the print |
| 02:40.12 | dardack | if i have 1 item in my bag that matches the blacklist the print should only fire once |
| 02:41.12 | Torhal | print("Deleted: "..iitem.."in bag "..tostring(bag)..", slot "..tostring(slot)) |
| 02:41.25 | Torhal | shrugs. |
| 02:41.58 | Torhal | I completely disregarded the if because there was so much whitespace after it that I missed it. |
| 02:42.13 | dardack | sorry about that was separting it to see if i could see the problem |
| 02:42.34 | dardack | once i'm done with voa 25 i'll try to debug with that print you listed |
| 02:44.01 | mikma | dardack: http://svn.wowinterface.com/filedetails.php?repname=mikma&path=%2FMikma%2FDropShards.lua |
| 02:44.40 | dardack | mikma: it successfully only deletes that item, but the print prints 6 times |
| 02:44.46 | dardack | and my code kinda looks like that |
| 02:45.08 | mikma | well hit return after the print then |
| 02:45.18 | Torhal | mikma: Hey, here's a screenshot for ya: http://www.wowace.com/projects/geargauge/images/1-tooltip/ |
| 02:45.36 | mikma | torhal: holy hell |
| 02:45.56 | mikma | tekkub: ^--- see the screenshot |
| 02:46.38 | Torhal | mikma: Holy hell as in, "My eyes are bleeding!", or...? |
| 02:46.41 | mikma | torhal: lolololooo you look like Lozareth! |
| 02:46.46 | Torhal | Who? |
| 02:47.01 | mikma | coder of discord mods |
| 02:47.21 | Torhal | Ah |
| 02:47.46 | Thunder_Child | agreed |
| 02:48.13 | mikma | torhal: and my eyes are not bleeding, i find the image clear |
| 02:48.30 | Torhal | Ah |
| 02:49.37 | mikma | also, WG addons are stupid. |
| 02:50.00 | mikma | theres like 7 of them and 4 uses different broadcast method |
| 02:59.06 | Jamash | it's blizzard's fault for not making the WG timer visible from outside northrend |
| 03:06.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:06.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:08.44 | Shirik | ok |
| 03:08.52 | Shirik | there's got to be a way to do this without access to the router |
| 03:09.13 | Shirik | I want to monitor the wireless network for activity, so I can tell who's the one flooding the network |
| 03:09.15 | Shirik | go! |
| 03:09.51 | Iriel | tcpdump on the wired side of the router/ |
| 03:10.12 | Iriel | one of the various wireless traffic capture utilities? |
| 03:10.15 | Shirik | wouldn't the router not distribute? |
| 03:10.58 | Iriel | it would depend on how it's set up, if you had a hub on the immediate wired side you'd see everything destinated for a non-wireless host |
| 03:11.23 | Iriel | though if the flooding is wireless-wireless, you're mostly stuck with wireless sniffing tools |
| 03:12.12 | Shirik | it's wireless->external I think |
| 03:12.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 03:12.18 | Shirik | i.e., torrents |
| 03:13.25 | ScytheBlade1 | you should be able to pick up all wireless traffic without anything fancy, just switch the interface into promiscous mode |
| 03:14.16 | Torhal | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------6666666666666 |
| 03:14.21 | Torhal | Damn cat |
| 03:14.48 | Dagmar | What? |
| 03:15.09 | kd3 | wonders how painful it would be to create some kind of programmatic 'a cat is sitting on the keyboard, ignore input' filter |
| 03:15.23 | Dagmar | No, you can't actually monitor wireless effectively by merely throwing on the promisc bit |
| 03:15.23 | Torhal | Hah |
| 03:15.32 | Dagmar | It'll work about as well as sniffing your own switch port. |
| 03:16.04 | ScytheBlade1 | No? Funny, I have :P |
| 03:16.26 | Shirik | Sniffing your own switch port doesn't make any sense |
| 03:16.37 | Shirik | by definition, a switch won't distribute a packet to a given pot unless it has a reason to |
| 03:18.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Associate with the AP, fire up wireshark, it'll tell you pretty quickly |
| 03:20.38 | dardack | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/115752 ok i added a return and it still prints 6 times, the bag and slot are always the same for each 6 prints |
| 03:20.43 | Iriel | Shirik: I'll note I clearly said HUB |
| 03:21.07 | Shirik | Iriel: And I'll note I realized that after I made my response to you; the second one was not directed at you :) |
| 03:22.20 | Iriel | dardack: Put a print at the top of the function, before the loop |
| 03:22.25 | Torhal | dardack: LWIW_Delete() isn't registered to an event is it? |
| 03:22.30 | Iriel | dardack: observe that it's probably being called 6 times |
| 03:22.39 | dardack | ok |
| 03:22.47 | Torhal | Iriel: Or that |
| 03:22.57 | Iriel | I suspect you have it registered on an event that's firing for multiple objects, as Torhal is wondering |
| 03:22.59 | Dagmar | Yo. The reason it's a problem is that you're not likely to see the other people |
| 03:23.03 | Dagmar | s transmitted packets. |
| 03:23.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Considering it is all broadcast, why not? |
| 03:23.20 | Dagmar | You can see what the AP sends back to them, but it just doesn't work the same way as cabled ethernet |
| 03:23.21 | Iriel | Dagmar: In theory all he needs to see is the responses to figure out who they are tho, right |
| 03:23.34 | Dagmar | Yeah but it makes MITM attacks bitchy |
| 03:23.38 | Iriel | Dagmar: and it does depend heavily where they are in relation to him |
| 03:23.48 | Iriel | ( and the AP ) |
| 03:24.52 | dardack | this is the function is fires from http://wowuidev.pastey.net/115753 which is tied to loot open |
| 03:25.11 | Iriel | dardack: Initialize blacklisted to false OUTSIDE of the if |
| 03:25.20 | Iriel | ? |
| 03:25.31 | Iriel | ALso, where is event defined? |
| 03:25.39 | dardack | before checking if the event is loot opened? |
| 03:25.51 | Iriel | Well, you put the test OUTSIDE of the if statement for the event check |
| 03:25.52 | Dagmar | Oh wait. Heh. |
| 03:26.00 | Dagmar | I was assuming the point was to look at other people's traffic. |
| 03:26.04 | Dagmar | Silly me. |
| 03:26.05 | dardack | right |
| 03:26.10 | dardack | my bad |
| 03:26.33 | dardack | you mean where is the event registered? |
| 03:26.58 | Iriel | No, what sets the event variable? Are you using the (hopefully deprecated at some point) globals? |
| 03:27.53 | dardack | LootWhatIWant:RegisterEvent("LOOT_OPENED"); LootWhatIWant:SetScript("OnEvent", LootWhatIWant_LOOT_OPENED), if that's not what your askign for i don't understand what your asking for |
| 03:28.07 | Iriel | You indirectly answered my question |
| 03:28.22 | Iriel | You really should do: function LootWhatIWant_LOOT_OPENED(self, event) |
| 03:28.40 | Iriel | so the event is passed as a parameter |
| 03:28.58 | Iriel | (or pedantically, so it's received as a parameter, since it's automatically passed as one) |
| 03:30.51 | dardack | well setting the false to outside the if seems to have worked, thanks |
| 03:30.58 | dardack | totally blanked on that |
| 03:31.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Koren (n=koren@97-95-35-149.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 03:39.19 | kd3 | hm... tie game with 2:40 left |
| 03:39.27 | kd3 | ponders |
| 03:44.01 | Primer | it's all rigged |
| 03:44.07 | Primer | the Lakers are supposed to lose today |
| 03:45.57 | Primer | See? He was supposed to miss that free throw |
| 03:46.00 | kd3 | har. kobe still can't sink free throws |
| 03:52.30 | Jamash | man, I do all this work to become a champion of sen'jin and the troll champion's flag sucks |
| 03:52.33 | dardack | there is a basketball player that says the ball does what the call is (ok the words are messed up) but basically if the call was wrong he'll miss and right he'll make, now i don't htink it's true but when i first heard it was neat to think about |
| 03:54.20 | dardack | ok i figured out my problem, i registered bag_update and then unregistered when you mentioned taking the blacklist=false outside the if, but aparantly the item doesn't actually make it into the bag until bagupdate, and that seems to fire 6 times for 1 loot sometimes, so i needed to test for that event and after calling the delete function once set the variable back to false, now it works... |
| 03:54.22 | dardack | ...thanks for the help |
| 03:55.18 | Shirik | ~wiki SSDP |
| 03:55.29 | Shirik | Wireshark says there's a lot of SSDP spam going out |
| 03:55.54 | kd3 | linksys firmware loves spamming SSDP |
| 03:56.01 | Shirik | we're using D-Link |
| 03:56.12 | Shirik | but see, someone is actually using it |
| 03:56.15 | Shirik | 192.168.0.188 |
| 03:56.18 | Shirik | now the question is who is that |
| 03:56.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: what host is it headed for? |
| 04:00.35 | Primer | guessing it's broadcast traffic |
| 04:00.40 | Primer | 255.255.255.255 |
| 04:03.45 | Thunder_Child | "If we drop axes, rogues cant use them. If we drop swords, shamans cant use them. If we drop fists, death knights cant use them. We are looking at changing one of these restrictions in 3.2, though it likely wont be for shamans to use swords." |
| 04:03.50 | Thunder_Child | someone might get happy |
| 04:06.04 | Shirik | no, 239.255.255.250 |
| 04:06.05 | ZorbaTHut | what are they thinking about changing it for? some legendary dps weapon? |
| 04:06.14 | Shirik | which seems to be linked to some kind of IGMP |
| 04:06.16 | Shirik | request |
| 04:06.40 | Shirik | ~wiki llmnr |
| 04:06.51 | Shirik | multicast, yay |
| 04:06.52 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Thunder_Child: $5 says dk's get fist weapons |
| 04:06.54 | Shirik | on a network of 5 |
| 04:06.57 | Shirik | totally necessary |
| 04:07.25 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSan1, i dont think i am going to take that bet |
| 04:07.36 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ZorbaTHut: more likely, they just want to consolidate 1h dps weapon drops |
| 04:07.56 | ScytheBlade1 | That'd be multicast, yeah |
| 04:08.02 | ScytheBlade1 | (Which is why I asked) |
| 04:08.03 | ZorbaTHut | that'd be sort of sad just for the sake of the missing variety |
| 04:08.19 | ZorbaTHut | they'd also have to work on racial bonuses if they did that, or it'll end up strongly biased. but it does make sense. |
| 04:08.24 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Sort of, but 1h weapons dps weapons are in kinda a shitty state right now |
| 04:12.58 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: behold, f11: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504934 |
| 04:13.12 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: (be sure to check out the second monitor photo) |
| 04:14.55 | Shirik | so once I identify an IP |
| 04:14.58 | Shirik | how do I figure out who it is |
| 04:14.59 | Shirik | hmm |
| 04:15.14 | kd3 | oh wow |
| 04:15.14 | Shirik | maybe nmap will give me a good OS detection |
| 04:15.17 | ScytheBlade1 | The MAC address may give you a vendor, which would let you narrow the field |
| 04:15.21 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: good stuff, huh? |
| 04:15.34 | Shirik | I know it's 192.168.0.195 causing the problems |
| 04:15.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Block them, and see who whines |
| 04:16.05 | Thunder_Child | triangualtion |
| 04:16.13 | Shirik | I don't have access to the router |
| 04:16.13 | Thunder_Child | triangulation* |
| 04:16.16 | kd3 | weirdly, f11 was working fine using nouveau when I turned on the second monitor in gnome before I swapped to the nvidia driver |
| 04:16.18 | Shirik | hence my problem |
| 04:16.39 | kd3 | I was expecting all kinds of breakage |
| 04:17.00 | Shirik | how can I pair a mac address to vendor |
| 04:17.04 | Shirik | any ideas? |
| 04:17.14 | kd3 | wireshark can do it for you automagically |
| 04:17.37 | Shirik | it says Source: IntelCor_18:58:2d (00:21:5c:18:58:2d) so I ssume all it can tell me is Intel? |
| 04:18.05 | kd3 | ya |
| 04:18.52 | Shirik | maybe I can just syn flood the person and see whom complains |
| 04:19.04 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: iirc, you have a slightly older card (based on a different chipset) |
| 04:19.20 | kd3 | ya. same thought crossed my mind a little after I typed it |
| 04:19.24 | kd3 | pokes noveau's site |
| 04:20.50 | Thunder_Child | couldnt you stick an antenna on a laptop with the correct software pretend to be a wireless access point and do hot/cold for a particular return signal? |
| 04:24.46 | Shirik | ok dlink needs to fucking chill |
| 04:24.53 | Shirik | why do people say these are good routers again? |
| 04:24.59 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't |
| 04:25.04 | kd3 | ^ |
| 04:25.16 | Shirik | my roommate is convinced |
| 04:25.20 | Shirik | "linksys is shit dlink is awesome" |
| 04:26.28 | Shirik | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/f7c94582c8be5f701b2f60dc228fb700.png |
| 04:27.33 | Thunder_Child | as much as i detest ciscos OS they do decent stuff |
| 04:27.44 | Shirik | cisco has an os? |
| 04:27.50 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 04:27.50 | ScytheBlade1 | ios |
| 04:28.30 | kd3 | ~wiki Cisco_IOS |
| 04:28.34 | kd3 | grr |
| 04:28.44 | Shirik | ok an embedded OS |
| 04:32.14 | Shirik | What is the command in ARP for "STFU" |
| 04:32.28 | Shirik | I'm sick of this router spamming my screen when I'm trying to look for stuff :P |
| 04:32.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Tell it the router is at MAC FF:FF:FF:FF:FF or something |
| 04:32.42 | kd3 | !arp in the filter box? |
| 04:32.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh |
| 04:32.53 | ScytheBlade1 | In wireshark |
| 04:32.55 | Shirik | that doesn't really solve the problem kd3 :P |
| 04:33.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Somewhat less malicious than what you were going for |
| 04:33.05 | kd3 | no, but if you're trying to solve other problems... |
| 04:33.19 | Thunder_Child | /netsend? or whatever the damn command is |
| 04:33.27 | Thunder_Child | assuming they have ms |
| 04:33.38 | Shirik | I could just change my IP to 192.168.0.195 lol |
| 04:33.57 | ScytheBlade1 | You'd trade off functioning networking abilities in 30 second spans |
| 04:34.08 | Shirik | well it seems the router isn't getting any response |
| 04:34.24 | Shirik | it's just sitting here spamming the network every second with "Who has 192.168.0.195?" |
| 04:34.38 | Shirik | obviously it hasn't been able to figure it out |
| 04:35.01 | Shirik | (and if dlink's ARP cache is 1 second, that's just pathetic :P) |
| 04:38.38 | Shirik | C:\Windows\system32>arp -s 192.168.0.195 00-1F-3B-43-54-EB |
| 04:38.39 | Shirik | The ARP entry addition failed: Access is denied. |
| 04:38.43 | Shirik | any other suggestions? |
| 04:42.41 | Thunder_Child | is it taking up that much bandwidth? |
| 04:43.53 | Shirik | that isn't, no |
| 04:43.57 | Shirik | but it's still stupid |
| 04:44.10 | Shirik | is a 1 KB/sec memory leak really taking up a lot of memory? |
| 04:46.19 | Thunder_Child | then why bother? |
| 04:46.37 | Shirik | why bother fixing memory leaks? |
| 04:47.13 | Thunder_Child | i thought this was about bandwidth |
| 04:47.29 | Shirik | not when the person causing the problem is disconnected |
| 04:47.45 | Shirik | I also think I figured out who it is |
| 04:48.01 | Shirik | it seems he's making a lot of domain name requests to chinese sites, and I only have one chinese roommate |
| 04:50.53 | Shirik | fortunately mr. chinese guy is also not the network admin, so I can go up to the admin and be like "yo limit him to 10K/sec" |
| 04:50.59 | Shirik | and he'll be like "cool homie g" |
| 04:51.44 | Thunder_Child | you have a net admin that says that? |
| 04:51.55 | Shirik | net admin being one of my roommates |
| 04:51.57 | Shirik | owner of the router |
| 04:52.05 | Thunder_Child | ah |
| 04:56.03 | kd3 | winces at xkcd |
| 05:02.21 | Cairenn | ooooow |
| 05:04.05 | Thunder_Child | i dunno...seems usual |
| 05:15.49 | Thunder_Child | blizz really needs to let us /follow npc for escort quests |
| 05:18.48 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:19.28 | mikma | and enabling flying mounts all over old content |
| 05:19.57 | Shirik | wouldn't that defeat the quest? |
| 05:20.09 | Thunder_Child | how so? |
| 05:20.30 | Shirik | honestly, it's like one of the last pieces of lore that still floats around in the game. You could at least try to take it in rather then be all pew pew with the game |
| 05:20.57 | Thunder_Child | ok then what if you at least made them move at a speed that is equal to yours |
| 05:21.10 | Thunder_Child | but this off kilter crap is iritating |
| 05:21.17 | Shirik | how would you catch up if you fell behind? |
| 05:22.02 | Thunder_Child | hence the /follow. you still havent said wht it defeats the quest |
| 05:22.28 | Shirik | because then you don't listen to all the whispers, etc. |
| 05:22.34 | Shirik | you just go afk |
| 05:22.51 | Thunder_Child | what whispers? |
| 05:23.00 | Shirik | all the stuff you get told while following the guy arond |
| 05:23.13 | Thunder_Child | you are talking about one specific quest? |
| 05:23.57 | Thunder_Child | and besides after the first time most people pay attention anyway |
| 05:24.03 | Shirik | are you talking about the shatt/cot/etc. quests? |
| 05:24.11 | Thunder_Child | just any escort quest |
| 05:24.18 | Shirik | well what do you mean by escort |
| 05:24.22 | Shirik | like where the guy shows you around? |
| 05:24.30 | Shirik | who escorting who |
| 05:24.34 | Thunder_Child | usually where you have to protect an npc that goes from point a to point b |
| 05:24.38 | Shirik | s/g who/g whom/ |
| 05:24.45 | Shirik | ok |
| 05:24.48 | Shirik | that's different :P |
| 05:25.01 | Thunder_Child | it's called an escort quest none the less |
| 05:25.06 | Shirik | yes |
| 05:27.22 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@c-76-107-188-90.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:28.14 | Thunder_Child | though it is rather iritating that they force you to read it that going afk should be an option |
| 05:30.41 | Thunder_Child | it isnt much more different than a 10 min cutscene you cant eqc out of |
| 05:30.46 | Thunder_Child | esc* |
| 05:33.47 | Shirik | ok so like |
| 05:33.54 | Shirik | what if I wrote a program that monitors the wireless connection |
| 05:34.17 | Shirik | and every time I see an ARP discovery broadcast, I respond with my MAC, no matter what my IP is |
| 05:34.40 | Shirik | that would effectively give me all the IP addresses, right? |
| 05:34.54 | Shirik | until someone else contests it, of course, then all hell breaks loos |
| 05:35.47 | Thunder_Child | why would a router give a MAC more than one IP? |
| 05:39.02 | Shirik | well, that's not really the important part |
| 05:39.09 | Shirik | the important part is it's asking who has that IP |
| 05:39.13 | Shirik | and it only cares that one time |
| 05:39.16 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 05:39.22 | Shirik | if it remembers, it won't ask again; if it doesn't remember, it will |
| 05:39.36 | Shirik | so simple theory, if it revokes my old IP when I respond, then I'll just get it back at the next request |
| 05:39.38 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 05:39.59 | Thunder_Child | http://kotaku.com/5284787/things-dying-in-starcraft-ii |
| 05:40.02 | Shirik | the important part here is this: By doing this, I would be denying an IP to someone else |
| 05:40.05 | ScytheBlade1 | whoo, got the second monitor working properly |
| 05:43.25 | Shirik | so the zerg just randomly burst into flames? |
| 05:43.28 | Shirik | Can someone explain that one? |
| 05:43.37 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 05:43.42 | Thunder_Child | its for visuals |
| 05:44.08 | Shirik | things don't just spontaneously combust |
| 05:44.14 | Shirik | even when they're shot |
| 05:44.18 | Thunder_Child | they do when you code them to |
| 05:44.21 | Shirik | ... |
| 05:44.33 | mikma | spastic bowl |
| 05:44.40 | Thunder_Child | but that would be the graphic after getting hit by the teran flamers |
| 05:44.46 | Thunder_Child | i assume |
| 05:44.47 | mikma | (is that right? lal) |
| 05:45.14 | mikma | bowel* |
| 05:46.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: that's the death you'd see when they died by flame - note how the one before it is the same unit, but a different death animation |
| 05:46.48 | Shirik | ok |
| 05:47.07 | ScytheBlade1 | s/died/were killed/ |
| 05:53.05 | Shirik | tackles ScytheBlade1 |
| 05:53.19 | ScytheBlade1 | promptly dies |
| 05:53.27 | Shirik | flames? |
| 05:53.32 | Thunder_Child | that wasnt very nice Shirik |
| 05:53.35 | ScytheBlade1 | it is likely |
| 05:53.51 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 called me fat :( |
| 05:53.54 | Shirik | Cairenn ban him please |
| 05:54.01 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 05:54.02 | ScytheBlade1 | http://textsfromlastnight.com/ |
| 05:54.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+b ScytheBlade1!*@*] by Cairenn |
| 05:54.15 | *** kick/#WoWUIDev [ScytheBlade1!n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn] by Cairenn (Cairenn) |
| 05:55.00 | Thunder_Child | thats interesting |
| 05:55.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-b ScytheBlade1!*@*] by Cairenn |
| 05:55.17 | *** join/#wowuidev ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 05:55.20 | Shirik | loves Cairenn |
| 05:55.23 | ScytheBlade1 | And now my channel numbers are all messed up |
| 05:55.24 | Shirik | I didn't think she'd do it |
| 05:55.28 | Shirik | I expected her to ban me |
| 05:55.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Cairenn: ban Shirik, he called me fat |
| 05:55.34 | Cairenn | heh |
| 05:55.37 | Shirik | no I didn't :/ |
| 05:55.43 | ScytheBlade1 | I didn't call you fat |
| 05:55.45 | mikma | cairenn: op me, i called shirik pretty... |
| 05:55.46 | ScytheBlade1 | It worked just the same |
| 05:55.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-o mikma] by Shirik |
| 05:55.57 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 05:56.00 | Shirik | There, now you have negative ops |
| 05:56.06 | Cairenn | lol |
| 05:56.18 | mikma | shirik: / 0 |
| 05:56.19 | Cairenn | huggles all her silly geeks |
| 05:56.30 | Shirik | shirik / 0 = infinity |
| 05:56.34 | Shirik | ? |
| 05:56.36 | ScytheBlade1 | sighs at #wowuidev having moved from tab 5 to 9 |
| 05:57.00 | mikma | shirik / 0 = oh shi... |
| 05:57.00 | Shirik | sighs at ScytheBlade1 having a crappy IRC client |
| 05:57.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Hey now buddy, I'm not the one addicted to mirc |
| 05:57.08 | Shirik | hey hey hey |
| 05:57.08 | ScytheBlade1 | =] |
| 05:57.14 | Shirik | is using nbs-irc 2.39 (theme: cold) - www.nbs-irc.net |
| 05:57.23 | mikma | Irssi 0.8.10 (20051211) - http://irssi.org/ <3 |
| 05:57.37 | Shirik | you're using a 3 year old irssi? |
| 05:57.42 | mikma | yeap |
| 05:57.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Just because your cocaine is laced with other stuff doesn't make it anything other than cocaine |
| 05:57.47 | Shirik | goes to search exploits |
| 05:57.51 | mikma | and it works *great* |
| 05:58.11 | mikma | thats the time when cras was still in control of irssi =/ |
| 05:58.29 | mikma | now its just a bunch of geeks that lost their irc-channel, haahaa |
| 05:59.17 | Shirik | damn it |
| 05:59.20 | Shirik | go back to 0.8.9 |
| 05:59.45 | mikma | i can't! i would have to co pile that one myself =( |
| 05:59.55 | mikma | compile* |
| 06:00.02 | Shirik | but that one has a DCC vulnerability |
| 06:00.12 | mikma | is it a cool one? |
| 06:00.19 | Shirik | it is for me! |
| 06:00.44 | Shirik | The DCC ACCEPT command handler in irssi before 0.8.9+0.8.10rc5-0ubuntu4.1 in Ubuntu Linux, and possibly other distributions, allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (application crash) via certain crafted arguments in a DCC command. |
| 06:00.44 | ScytheBlade1 | haha - from the onion - "Bored Predator Drone Pumps A Few Rounds Into Mountain Goat" |
| 06:01.11 | Shirik | linky |
| 06:01.22 | ScytheBlade1 | It's just a headline and a photo of a predator drone |
| 06:01.36 | Shirik | :/ |
| 06:01.41 | Shirik | oh wait predator |
| 06:01.51 | Shirik | ehehe |
| 06:01.53 | Shirik | that's my field! |
| 06:01.56 | ScytheBlade1 | There you go |
| 06:02.01 | Thunder_Child | military apps? |
| 06:02.23 | Shirik | I work for a company that develops autonomous unmanned aircraft, primarily for the military |
| 06:02.42 | Primer | I hope you're not using Microsoft products |
| 06:02.56 | Shirik | we are in fact using visual studio to develop :) |
| 06:03.16 | Shirik | visual studio team suite is really nice :/ |
| 06:03.32 | Shirik | and it actually knows how to use all 8 cores too |
| 06:03.41 | Shirik | during compile |
| 06:03.44 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-35-130.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 06:04.03 | Thunder_Child | now that is impressive |
| 06:04.03 | Primer | Hopefully this is not the US military... |
| 06:04.16 | Shirik | what's wrong with Visual Studio? |
| 06:04.24 | Shirik | If it makes you feel any better, I modded my visual studio to act like vim |
| 06:07.28 | ScytheBlade1 | neat, you can script stuff on android phones in python and.. lua! |
| 06:07.34 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 is slow |
| 06:07.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Very, I just finished reading a few hundred rss entries |
| 06:07.53 | Shirik | Read the Lua mailing list :) |
| 06:08.15 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't do that, but I do read the apache mailing list |
| 06:08.28 | Shirik | so who here has xchat |
| 06:08.33 | ScytheBlade1 | And right now, there are a few people pushing to replace all existing httpd config files with lua scripts |
| 06:08.43 | ScytheBlade1 | (That'd include .htaccess) |
| 06:08.51 | Shirik | that would be awesome |
| 06:08.56 | Shirik | because apache's config format is horrid |
| 06:09.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Er, I think only one person wants to replace, the rest want to supplement |
| 06:09.16 | Shirik | supplement is fine |
| 06:09.19 | Shirik | so long as I don't have to use them |
| 06:09.28 | Shirik | s/them/the old ones/ |
| 06:13.14 | ScytheBlade1 | The next major version of apache already has lua built in |
| 06:13.19 | ScytheBlade1 | So you'll be happy regardless |
| 06:13.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 06:15.22 | mikma | luapache |
| 06:15.42 | Shirik | sounds like an italian indian |
| 06:16.11 | mikma | yes, it does actually |
| 06:17.11 | Thunder_Child | heh http://kotaku.com/5284467/global-agenda-pokes-fun-at-world-of-warcraft i linked the video yesterday but the writing is amusing |
| 06:19.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 06:20.04 | Thunder_Child | http://kotaku.com/5285207/why-valve-dont-develop-for-the-ps3 |
| 06:22.58 | Shirik | So, random statements |
| 06:23.15 | Shirik | I was reading a book by Stroustrup today, a section about OO design |
| 06:23.17 | mikma | cake |
| 06:23.27 | Shirik | he brought up a really interesting point |
| 06:23.44 | Shirik | Let us say we have a class, Rectangle. It has two methods: SetWidth() and SetHeight(). |
| 06:23.57 | ScytheBlade1 | starts nodding off |
| 06:24.07 | Shirik | It seems everyone is taught that we could have a class, Square, which is derived from Rectangle |
| 06:24.24 | Shirik | ? |
| 06:24.26 | Shirik | er |
| 06:24.31 | Shirik | yay for deleting entire line |
| 06:24.44 | Shirik | Anyway, it makes sense, right? A square is a specialization of a rectangle. |
| 06:25.07 | mikma | SetDepth(deep shit) |
| 06:25.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Or vice-versa |
| 06:25.33 | Shirik | He went into this long discussion about how Square cannot correctly be derived from Rectangle because it cannot satisfy SetWidth and SetHeight without violating Rectangle's contract |
| 06:25.47 | mikma | stop being a [] |
| 06:25.58 | Shirik | because for a square, setting one would have to set the other, whereas users of Rectangle would expect that the other would remain the same |
| 06:26.05 | Thunder_Child | stop being a bracket? |
| 06:26.19 | mikma | sure you can |
| 06:26.42 | Shirik | It's funny because now that I've read this book, I somewhat agree with him; I thought Java was a well-designed OO language because it was made ground-up to be OO |
| 06:26.52 | Shirik | but really its libraries seem flawed in the same manner |
| 06:27.06 | Shirik | that inheritance is overused |
| 06:27.40 | Shirik | ~bible |
| 06:27.41 | purl | bible is probably http://wowprogramming.com |
| 06:27.44 | Shirik | mikma ^ |
| 06:27.53 | ZorbaTHut | OO is great for a surprisingly small subset of coding. in the places where it's not great, it's very, very frequently overused |
| 06:28.02 | ScytheBlade1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:28.17 | Shirik | I must say, for what I'm working on at work right now, I am so glad for OO; it has made things so easy |
| 06:28.30 | ZorbaTHut | my CS151 professor had this absolutely amazing linked list. least efficient thing I've ever seen, and nearly impossible to do anything interesting with |
| 06:28.32 | ZorbaTHut | but oh man was it OO! :D |
| 06:28.45 | Shirik | my supervisor came by and wanted to run a test on my code, and it threw an exception "Unsupported element type" |
| 06:28.56 | *** join/#wowuidev potato (n=potato@dsl-247-126-178.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 06:28.56 | Shirik | So I was like "oh sorry" hit about 3 buttons, typed 3 lines of code, and it worked |
| 06:29.06 | Shirik | that's what OO is meant to do |
| 06:29.12 | Shirik | allow old code to use new code |
| 06:29.15 | Shirik | not allow new code to use old code |
| 06:29.25 | ScytheBlade1 | How exactly do you make an inefficient linked list? |
| 06:29.30 | ScytheBlade1 | a->b->c->d |
| 06:29.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Now I'm curious |
| 06:29.51 | Shirik | you have a triply-linked-list |
| 06:30.04 | Shirik | it points to the one before it, the one after it, and itself |
| 06:30.22 | Shirik | Actually this brings up a fun challenge to anyone who wants to take the bait |
| 06:30.34 | Shirik | Let's say I have a linked list of any size (potentially infinite) |
| 06:30.36 | theorbtwo | Youch. That's even worse then the obvious way of being inefficent. |
| 06:30.37 | mikma | An object's abilities. In language, methods (sometimes referred to as "functions") are verbs. Lassie, being a Dog, has the ability to bark. So bark() is one of Lassie's methods. |
| 06:30.38 | Thunder_Child | look out it's a trap |
| 06:30.40 | mikma | She may have other methods as well, for example sit() or eat() or walk() or save_timmy(). |
| 06:30.44 | mikma | loloo |
| 06:31.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Gonna have to add let_timmy_burn() |
| 06:31.05 | ScytheBlade1 | s/burn/drown/ |
| 06:31.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Works equally well |
| 06:31.11 | Shirik | How would you determine if the linked list has a loop in it? |
| 06:31.19 | Shirik | example: a->b->c->d->b->c->d->b... |
| 06:31.53 | Shirik | I probably shouldn't have said "potentially infinite" so you can take that out, but just say arbitrary size |
| 06:31.59 | Shirik | "infinitely sized linked list" doesn't have much meaning |
| 06:32.25 | theorbtwo | Shirik: There are two methods; one involves keeping a "seen" hash, the other is called turtle walking. |
| 06:32.41 | Shirik | you've seen this problem before |
| 06:32.43 | Shirik | you suck |
| 06:32.48 | theorbtwo | Yes. |
| 06:33.02 | Shirik | I didn't know the name for the approach I took, though |
| 06:33.08 | Shirik | so thanks :P |
| 06:33.15 | theorbtwo | "Higher Order Perl", by Mark-Jason Dominous. |
| 06:33.49 | Shirik | It was asked by my supervisor to me as a little challenge :P |
| 06:34.08 | theorbtwo | Mastering Algorithms with Perl is also quite good, and quite likely covers this as well, but I don't remember it as well. |
| 06:34.23 | Shirik | there was another fun one |
| 06:34.28 | Shirik | let's say you have a rectangular cake |
| 06:34.34 | ScytheBlade1 | om nom nom |
| 06:34.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Too bad it wasn't pie |
| 06:34.47 | Shirik | actually, a square cake, to make it easier |
| 06:34.57 | theorbtwo | Quite possibly it doesn't; perl's own array implementation is good enough that there's rarely a reason to roll your own in perl. HOP does because it *does* support infinite linked lists. |
| 06:35.01 | Shirik | now, ScytheBlade1 was mean, so there is a rectangular piece missing somewhere from the cake |
| 06:35.02 | Shirik | somewhere |
| 06:35.23 | Shirik | but theorbtwo and I still want cake, so we're going to cut the remaining cake into two equal parts |
| 06:35.32 | Shirik | how do you cut the cake such that it only takes a single, straight slice? |
| 06:37.06 | theorbtwo | Hmm, I don't see an obvious general answer to this one. |
| 06:37.18 | Shirik | this one I will admit took me a while |
| 06:37.24 | Shirik | and a lot of drawing |
| 06:37.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Nitra (n=Nitra@c-0367e255.233-4-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 06:38.42 | mikma | shirik: corner to corner! topleft to bottomright |
| 06:38.45 | Thunder_Child | tis easy with math |
| 06:39.09 | Shirik | mikma: And what about the piece missing? |
| 06:39.21 | Thunder_Child | but that isnt equal since the peice missing is random |
| 06:39.22 | ScytheBlade1 | okay something is weird here |
| 06:39.24 | mikma | shirik: blame scytheblade1 |
| 06:39.27 | Shirik | lol |
| 06:39.31 | theorbtwo | mikma: The missing rectangle is in the bottom left corner, then. It's in Shirik's piece, not mine. I WIN! |
| 06:39.38 | Shirik | lol |
| 06:39.40 | ScytheBlade1 | This stereo, turned OFF, is putting out quite a bit of noise |
| 06:40.00 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: Very few devices actually go "off" when you turn them off |
| 06:40.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes I know |
| 06:40.10 | ScytheBlade1 | But this is quite different |
| 06:40.19 | ScytheBlade1 | This is a VERY audible... hum. |
| 06:40.22 | Shirik | it's about to explode |
| 06:40.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Possibly |
| 06:40.27 | mikma | so i was thinking today... |
| 06:40.31 | ScytheBlade1 | That fits better than anything else I can think of |
| 06:40.33 | Shirik | answer the cake problem! |
| 06:40.47 | Thunder_Child | massive EMI? |
| 06:40.48 | mikma | there is a way to measure how long ie. a pole is based by its shadow |
| 06:41.01 | Shirik | yes, trig |
| 06:41.01 | mikma | but how to do that? |
| 06:41.11 | Shirik | it's fairly trivial trig |
| 06:41.14 | Shirik | since it's a right triangle |
| 06:41.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Guess what? |
| 06:41.31 | ScytheBlade1 | It isn't a rectangle, it's a star |
| 06:41.32 | ScytheBlade1 | NOW WHAT |
| 06:41.47 | ScytheBlade1 | (A 19-point star) |
| 06:42.02 | Shirik | the angle at which the sun is with respect to the ground will be angle A, we'll say |
| 06:42.13 | Shirik | that is opposite of the pole |
| 06:42.19 | theorbtwo | wonders who was attacking his cake with a moravian star cookie cutter. |
| 06:42.28 | Shirik | the shadow is adjacent to angle A |
| 06:42.35 | Fisker- | Shirik |
| 06:42.39 | Fisker- | reveal your secrets |
| 06:42.41 | mikma | i think thats impossible to determinate without some kind of tool? |
| 06:42.44 | Shirik | tan(A) = opp / adj = pole / shadow |
| 06:42.59 | Shirik | shadow * tan(A) = pole |
| 06:43.14 | ScytheBlade1 | tan(A) = pie |
| 06:43.24 | Shirik | well you could probably estimate the angle of the sun with respect to the ground |
| 06:44.07 | Thunder_Child | lua> 82548/351 |
| 06:44.07 | lua_bot | Thunder_Child: 235.17948717949 |
| 06:44.07 | Shirik | worst case scenario you get a protractor |
| 06:44.07 | Shirik | no big deal |
| 06:44.19 | Fisker- | online predator? |
| 06:44.27 | Shirik | anyway, you guys want the answer to the cake problem? |
| 06:44.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Turn it into a pie |
| 06:44.51 | ScytheBlade1 | And all is forgiven |
| 06:45.07 | Shirik | believe it or not, if the cake were in fact a pie with a missing piece, the problem's solution would be identical |
| 06:45.08 | theorbtwo | Oh, hell. |
| 06:45.10 | Shirik | now that I think about it |
| 06:45.13 | theorbtwo | I know the solution. |
| 06:45.29 | Shirik | go for it |
| 06:45.32 | Thunder_Child | bake a new one |
| 06:45.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Who cuts a rectangle out of a pie? |
| 06:45.38 | ScytheBlade1 | wtf? |
| 06:45.41 | theorbtwo | You cut parallel to the table, halfway up. |
| 06:45.42 | Shirik | you obviously |
| 06:45.47 | Shirik | hahaha |
| 06:45.48 | Shirik | no, I tried that |
| 06:45.52 | theorbtwo | I take the top, with the frosting. You get the bottom. |
| 06:46.00 | Thunder_Child | cake it works, pie it doesnt |
| 06:46.00 | Shirik | he said no because that means only one person gets the icing |
| 06:46.17 | Shirik | ok here's the real solution |
| 06:46.21 | Thunder_Child | that assumes you have icing |
| 06:46.31 | Shirik | let's assume cake monster ScytheBlade1 hasn't touched the cake yet |
| 06:46.52 | ScytheBlade1 | what |
| 06:46.53 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 06:46.54 | Shirik | there is an infinite number of ways to cut the cake in two, but all of them go through the center |
| 06:47.05 | Shirik | with me so far? |
| 06:47.28 | Shirik | (for a pie, it would be any slice which represents the diameter of the pie) |
| 06:47.38 | theorbtwo | Well, no, I can think of plenty of ways to cut a cake that don't go through the centre, but keep going. |
| 06:47.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Matsy (n=Matsy@a143167.upc-a.chello.nl) |
| 06:47.40 | ScytheBlade1 | er |
| 06:47.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Unless you cut the rectangle out of the middle |
| 06:47.52 | ScytheBlade1 | In which case you never went through it |
| 06:48.03 | Shirik | I said you haven't touched it yet |
| 06:48.03 | Thunder_Child | theorbtwo, with one straight line? |
| 06:48.06 | Shirik | so it's still a whole cake |
| 06:48.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Just saying. It would be cut in two without going through the center |
| 06:48.27 | Shirik | ok, so now we go back to the problem, ScytheBlade1 has removed the piece somewhere |
| 06:48.41 | Shirik | our objective is to cut the remaining portion in two equally |
| 06:48.49 | krka | draw a line through the center of cake and the center of the missing rectangle? |
| 06:48.51 | Shirik | a congruent problem is to cut the missing portion in two, equally |
| 06:48.56 | Shirik | krka wins |
| 06:48.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019133.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:49.08 | mikma | shirik: http://5.media.tumblr.com/FJtUhxZXBj8kb8wlM4Qly4Ubo1_400.jpg |
| 06:49.15 | theorbtwo | Right. Yeah, I think that works. |
| 06:49.20 | Shirik | The exact same problem exists in the missing piece - cut it in two. This cut through the hole will always go through the middle as well |
| 06:49.24 | krka | there are of course other solutions too, but that one seems easiest |
| 06:49.35 | theorbtwo | (Shirk + krka)++ |
| 06:49.42 | Matsy | ... what the |
| 06:49.47 | Shirik | So, the single solution that goes through the center of the original cake and through the missing piece will always divide the remaining portion in two |
| 06:50.02 | Shirik | Yes there are of course other solutions but it would take al ot more calculations I think |
| 06:50.14 | Thunder_Child | http://i.gizmodo.com/5285178/futurama-is-back-for-26-more-episodes weeeeee |
| 06:50.17 | Shirik | the most obvious one is "cut straight down the center, and then compensate left or right" |
| 06:50.18 | ScytheBlade1 | The better solution is to turn it into a cake |
| 06:50.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Err |
| 06:50.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Epic fail |
| 06:50.30 | ScytheBlade1 | s/cake/pie/ |
| 06:50.37 | Shirik | the cake is a pie? |
| 06:50.47 | ScytheBlade1 | It should be if it isn't |
| 06:50.49 | theorbtwo | Shirik: And there is no spoon. |
| 06:51.09 | theorbtwo | Also, the network is the computer, and the medium is the message. |
| 06:51.13 | Shirik | anyway, what ScytheBlade1 brought up is interesting, because as I was talking about earlier, the problem is identical whether it's a rectangle or a circle |
| 06:51.26 | Shirik | the only issue is that I don't think people cut circles out of pies |
| 06:51.48 | mikma | so, what happens when you merge two wow accounts into one bnet account and you log in to wow? |
| 06:52.07 | theorbtwo | Shirik: Though, interestingly, I don't think that will work with a 19-pointed star. |
| 06:52.26 | Shirik | if you made a 19-pointed star cake, you have other issues |
| 06:52.30 | Matsy | I've tried only one, mikma :< |
| 06:52.31 | theorbtwo | (Becuase it's possible that going through both centres will leave a spike on one side and not the other.) |
| 06:52.34 | Matsy | I didnt want to mess it up |
| 06:52.41 | ScytheBlade1 | No no |
| 06:52.45 | ScytheBlade1 | That's what I cut out of it |
| 06:52.45 | Thunder_Child | http://i.gizmodo.com/5284863/new-rifle-can-fire-bullets-through-walls-explode-them-once-inside |
| 06:52.57 | Shirik | well we already know ScytheBlade1 has issues |
| 06:53.11 | theorbtwo | ScytheBlade1: Er, yes, I know. That's what I meant. |
| 06:53.22 | theorbtwo | The hole is a 19-sided star. |
| 06:53.37 | Shirik | sounds like bunker buster, Thunder_Child |
| 06:53.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Sounds like something we should test on Shirik |
| 06:53.52 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, close the tech is interesting though |
| 06:53.56 | ScytheBlade1 | (Who am I? Fisker-?) |
| 06:54.31 | Shirik | ponders loading a UAV with one of those things |
| 06:54.35 | Shirik | oh, sorry, UAS |
| 06:54.36 | Shirik | not UAV |
| 06:54.44 | krka | hmm.. shouldn't it work with a 19-poined star? does such a star give uneven partitions when splitting in half in a line through the center? |
| 06:54.46 | Thunder_Child | sitn it UCAV? |
| 06:54.51 | Shirik | The FAA got pissed about people calling it "UAV" |
| 06:54.52 | Thunder_Child | isnt* |
| 06:55.07 | Shirik | because of the word "Vehicle" they apparently lost their jurisdiction |
| 06:55.27 | ScytheBlade1 | krka: probably, it'd work with any symmetrical shape |
| 06:55.29 | Shirik | so they're calling for "UAS" - Unmanned Aerial System I think |
| 06:55.29 | krka | i suspect it would work on a 19-pointed star too |
| 06:55.41 | Thunder_Child | wouldnt it be UCAS then? |
| 06:55.47 | Shirik | What's the C? |
| 06:55.51 | Thunder_Child | comabt |
| 06:55.59 | Thunder_Child | as per current naming conventions |
| 06:56.01 | Shirik | ah |
| 06:56.06 | Shirik | well I don't deal with combat systems :) |
| 06:56.10 | airtonix | lua> ("string is string is string"):gmatch(%W+")() |
| 06:56.11 | lua_bot | airtonix: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near '%' |
| 06:56.12 | Shirik | All the stuff I work with is ISR |
| 06:56.15 | airtonix | lua> ("string is string is string"):gmatch("%W+")() |
| 06:56.15 | lua_bot | airtonix: No output |
| 06:56.20 | theorbtwo | ScytheBlade1: I think it only works with a shape that is symetrical across 90 degree rotations. |
| 06:56.27 | ScytheBlade1 | hm |
| 06:56.34 | ScytheBlade1 | You're probably right |
| 06:56.38 | theorbtwo | Wait. No, 180 degree rotations. |
| 06:57.11 | airtonix | lua> print(("string is string is string"):gmatch("%w+")()) |
| 06:57.11 | lua_bot | airtonix: string |
| 06:57.19 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, ISR? |
| 06:57.25 | krka | should work for all shapes, if your center is the gravitational center |
| 06:57.28 | airtonix | lua> print(({1,2,3,4,5,6}):concat(", ")) |
| 06:57.28 | lua_bot | airtonix: luabot:1: attempt to call method 'concat' (a nil value) |
| 06:57.34 | Thunder_Child | my alphabet soup seems to have failed me |
| 06:57.35 | Shirik | intelligence, surveilence (sp?), and reconnaisance (sp?) |
| 06:57.35 | batbot | Shirik, nothing found. |
| 06:57.40 | Thunder_Child | ah |
| 06:57.46 | ScytheBlade1 | okay general Java question |
| 06:57.50 | Matsy | Yay |
| 06:57.52 | Shirik | use a class |
| 06:58.00 | theorbtwo | krka: Hm, maybe. |
| 06:58.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I need to index several pairs of K,V by another K |
| 06:58.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Best way to do this? In both cases, K is a string |
| 06:58.11 | krka | for any 2d-shape there is a point it can "balance" on |
| 06:58.20 | theorbtwo | Fails at being visually obvious, though. |
| 06:58.21 | Shirik | Map<String, Map<K,V> > |
| 06:58.21 | krka | (though the point may be outside the shape) |
| 06:58.25 | Matsy | LinkedList<String,LinkedHashMap<String,Test>> |
| 06:58.37 | ScytheBlade1 | That's more or less what I'm doing, but the memory usage is crazy |
| 06:58.42 | Shirik | I doubt that |
| 06:58.42 | Matsy | Whatever test is doing :< |
| 06:58.45 | Matsy | Use a hashmap! |
| 06:58.54 | krka | storing much data consumes much memory |
| 06:58.56 | krka | who'd guess? |
| 06:58.58 | Shirik | Minion uses a ton of hash maps all over the place and doesn't have a significant problem wit memory usage |
| 06:59.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm not storing tons of data, that's the thing |
| 06:59.11 | krka | LinkedList... *shudder* |
| 06:59.16 | krka | i don't think i've ever used that in java :P |
| 06:59.20 | ScytheBlade1 | About 15 ints and 4 strings per |
| 06:59.20 | Matsy | Oh |
| 06:59.21 | Matsy | What |
| 06:59.23 | Shirik | It stores approximately 4 sets of indexes for all addons |
| 06:59.25 | Matsy | Why did I mess that up. |
| 06:59.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Freaking 70MB of RAM |
| 06:59.34 | Matsy | ScytheBlade1 |
| 06:59.42 | Matsy | Are you sure that's caused by the application? |
| 06:59.42 | ScytheBlade1 | For just a few hundred entries |
| 06:59.45 | Matsy | Because, I can't even imagine. |
| 06:59.49 | Shirik | and then another index of every combination of 3 or more letters in addon names |
| 06:59.50 | ScytheBlade1 | yes :/ |
| 06:59.57 | Matsy | What's your code, currently\? |
| 07:00.04 | Shirik | 70MB for just the hash map? |
| 07:00.06 | Shirik | I doubt that |
| 07:00.11 | ScytheBlade1 | For a few of them |
| 07:00.12 | krka | 70 MB for 100 entries? |
| 07:00.14 | krka | i doubt that |
| 07:00.14 | Matsy | Because, I had all permutations from 0-9 |
| 07:00.15 | Shirik | Which Map implementation are you using? |
| 07:00.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Few hundred |
| 07:00.22 | Matsy | And I still didnt have 70MB |
| 07:00.26 | krka | MemoryConsumptionMap |
| 07:00.26 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1, let me a bit more clear :) |
| 07:00.30 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd paste it but that computer is off right now |
| 07:00.40 | Matsy | You're using Hashmaps? |
| 07:00.41 | Matsy | ;o |
| 07:00.42 | Shirik | Minion has somewhere along the order of 70 thousand entries across 5 maps |
| 07:00.48 | Shirik | and I don't think the maps break 100 MB |
| 07:00.49 | krka | 70 MB for 1000 entries is about 70 KB per entry... i doubt it |
| 07:01.24 | ScytheBlade1 | ohh, better question |
| 07:01.28 | Shirik | Hell, I even initialize the map size to 16384 elements |
| 07:01.30 | Shirik | on construction |
| 07:01.34 | Matsy | Why's that? |
| 07:01.36 | Matsy | :< |
| 07:01.49 | Matsy | I don't think I've ever worked with map sizes. |
| 07:01.52 | ScytheBlade1 | How would I insert into the outer map when I won't know the K for it until I parse the very last value? |
| 07:01.54 | theorbtwo | This is one of the reasons I love perl. Hashes are such lovely things, you *really* want good language support for them. |
| 07:01.55 | Matsy | Well, I don't work with static maps anyway |
| 07:01.56 | Shirik | For speed, because it's loaded very fast |
| 07:02.15 | Shirik | I don't want it to keep recomputing the hash during loading |
| 07:02.27 | Matsy | Uhuh |
| 07:02.32 | Matsy | Could you rephrase that? |
| 07:02.39 | ScytheBlade1 | It defaults to size 10 |
| 07:02.42 | krka | Shirik: that's at most a factor 2 :P |
| 07:02.51 | ScytheBlade1 | When it exceeds that, it makes a new one *2 in size, and then rehashes all of the entries |
| 07:03.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat to load a few thousand entries |
| 07:03.05 | Matsy | I know. |
| 07:03.15 | ScytheBlade1 | (Or, just make it big enough by default, and never rehash) |
| 07:03.38 | Matsy | Which is either an insane gain in speed, or an insane loss in speed |
| 07:03.40 | krka | ScytheBlade1: don't insert until you know the K? |
| 07:04.09 | Shirik | how would you lose speed? |
| 07:04.14 | theorbtwo | Hm. It defaults to *10*? Strange, you normally do hashes in powers of 2. |
| 07:04.15 | Shirik | The only thing I see you losing is memory |
| 07:04.24 | ScytheBlade1 | krka: which is what I'm doing, I was just wondering if there was a better way of doing it |
| 07:04.34 | krka | you can't insert by key until you know the key |
| 07:04.39 | ScytheBlade1 | right |
| 07:04.39 | Matsy | Shirik |
| 07:04.41 | krka | that's not just java, that's logic |
| 07:04.50 | Matsy | That's what I mean. |
| 07:04.54 | ScytheBlade1 | It just seems weird, the order in which I wind up doing all of my inserts |
| 07:04.55 | Matsy | And well |
| 07:04.59 | Matsy | It takes time to compute those hashes too. |
| 07:05.03 | Shirik | I'm confused |
| 07:05.14 | Shirik | what ScytheBlade1 said is 100% my justification for doing that |
| 07:05.23 | theorbtwo | Shirik: Init to too large a size. Memory is time, when you use lots too much. You throw things out of cache, or even worse, out of actual RAM into swap. |
| 07:05.43 | Shirik | theorbtwo: I just rechecked java's documentation, its default is 16 with a load factor of 0.75 |
| 07:05.51 | krka | hash values is a one time calculation for immutable objects or equality = identity objects |
| 07:06.31 | krka | Shirik: you do realize that it's still only at most a factor 2 faster by preallocating? |
| 07:06.57 | theorbtwo | krka: shouldn't be, because it should depend on the number of buckets in the hashmap. |
| 07:07.00 | ScytheBlade1 | shrugs |
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| 07:07.06 | Shirik | better than nothing krka :) |
| 07:07.07 | ScytheBlade1 | The change in code amounts to 7 bytes |
| 07:07.11 | Shirik | I heavily optimized this area |
| 07:07.13 | krka | probably much less in practice |
| 07:07.22 | Shirik | because it was a hot spot |
| 07:07.37 | Shirik | I also spent a lot of time tuning the load factor |
| 07:09.17 | krka | theorbtwo: if you start with size=16 and want to insert 10000 objects, you'd need to rehash about 16 + 32 + 64 + 128 + ... 8196, which is 16384 which is less than a factor 2 from 10000 |
| 07:09.54 | krka | Shirik: is load factor even relevant if you set the capacity way above your real usage? |
| 07:10.02 | Shirik | that's not way above real usage ) |
| 07:10.03 | Shirik | :) |
| 07:10.11 | theorbtwo | krka: Oh, yeah, you'll recompute *less* if you get closer to your actual final size (without going over). |
| 07:10.29 | theorbtwo | I was objecting to "hash values is a one time calculation for immutable objects or equality = identity objects". |
| 07:11.03 | krka | right, for the internal hash |
| 07:11.24 | ScytheBlade1 | It is a small optimization, sure. But iirc, the difference in source code amounts to 5 bytes |
| 07:11.24 | krka | the object hash is constant, but the internal hash is generally just object hash & (capacity - 1) |
| 07:11.30 | ScytheBlade1 | So meh |
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| 07:12.13 | Shirik | so since we have a bunch of java gurus here |
| 07:12.16 | Shirik | riddle me this |
| 07:12.34 | ScytheBlade1 | 42 |
| 07:12.42 | krka | center of the cake! |
| 07:12.45 | Jamash | apt-get remove java |
| 07:12.49 | zenzio | riddles Shirik's this |
| 07:12.52 | Jamash | apt-get install perl |
| 07:13.01 | Jamash | you're welcome |
| 07:13.10 | Shirik | T makeANewT<T>() { return new T(); } |
| 07:13.12 | theorbtwo | is *not* a java guru, but I do know a reasonable bit about hashes. |
| 07:13.22 | Jamash | you got C++ in my java |
| 07:13.25 | Shirik | is there a way to legally do this in Java? |
| 07:13.26 | krka | can't do that |
| 07:13.29 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 07:13.30 | Shirik | boo! |
| 07:13.33 | Shirik | at Java |
| 07:13.36 | krka | generics only exists at compiletime |
| 07:13.48 | Shirik | C# did some things right and Java did some things right |
| 07:13.54 | Shirik | now if they could just get the two to be merged together |
| 07:14.01 | Shirik | C# does it by doing |
| 07:14.02 | krka | <T> T createT(Class<T> t) { return t.newInstance(); } |
| 07:14.03 | Matsy | Eh |
| 07:14.04 | Matsy | Just so you know |
| 07:14.06 | Matsy | In a HashMap |
| 07:14.07 | Thunder_Child | time to write your own platform Shirik |
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| 07:14.10 | Matsy | It doesnt hash the entries |
| 07:14.13 | Shirik | T makeANewT<T> where T:new() { return new T(); } |
| 07:14.34 | Jamash | generic maps generally use trees, not hashes |
| 07:14.40 | krka | Shirik: usually you get around it by providing the class object |
| 07:15.09 | Shirik | but that's unsafe |
| 07:15.14 | krka | not really |
| 07:15.18 | Shirik | let us assume a better example |
| 07:15.32 | krka | and it's not really much harder to write: obj = createT(SomeClass.class) than obj = createT<SomeClass>(); |
| 07:15.44 | krka | you still get the type safety Shirik |
| 07:15.44 | Shirik | T makeANewT<T> where T:Foo, new() { return new T(); } |
| 07:15.53 | krka | i usually use that idiom for generics in java |
| 07:15.57 | Shirik | that would be the same as <T extends Foo> in C# |
| 07:16.00 | Shirik | er |
| 07:16.02 | Shirik | ? extends Foo |
| 07:16.11 | Matsy | It doesnt rehash the values |
| 07:16.17 | Matsy | Whenever it resizes itself |
| 07:16.20 | Shirik | now, what's stopping me from extending Foo, but not providing a default constructor? |
| 07:16.31 | krka | sure, there's always that problem |
| 07:16.36 | krka | does C# solve that? |
| 07:16.47 | Shirik | the "where T:new()" enforces that T must provide a default constructor |
| 07:16.59 | krka | i see |
| 07:17.07 | Shirik | in fact, you can't instantiate a T unless you specify what constructors must be provided by T |
| 07:17.25 | krka | i haven't ever seen a case where you need the behaviour you specify |
| 07:17.29 | ScytheBlade1 | sleeps |
| 07:17.35 | Shirik | actually I used it recently, tha'ts why I know about it |
| 07:17.46 | Shirik | there's probably a way around it in Java |
| 07:17.52 | krka | you may have used it, but you probably could have solved it another way |
| 07:17.53 | Jamash | the contortions that static languages go through to try to emulate OOP make my head hurt |
| 07:18.03 | krka | i think that sort of usage of generics is really ugly |
| 07:18.11 | Shirik | the reason was this |
| 07:18.25 | krka | i'd supply a provider or something instead |
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| 07:19.05 | Shirik | I have some Parent. He makes some children. These children may be all different types. But he can't make them on his own, he needs assistance from one other Parent |
| 07:19.07 | airtonix | the act of pruning a table entry is called what? |
| 07:19.14 | Shirik | so we have two parents creating a single child |
| 07:19.24 | Jamash | Shirik's discovered sex! |
| 07:19.45 | Thunder_Child | it still wont deter him |
| 07:19.50 | Shirik | I used a generic to be able to cleanly handle the situation |
| 07:20.02 | Shirik | one calls the other's generic method which returns the child |
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| 07:20.14 | Shirik | the caller gets to specify what for mthe child will be in |
| 07:20.30 | Shirik | wow this really is a lot like sex :/ |
| 07:20.31 | Shirik | wtf |
| 07:20.40 | Jamash | okay, so the male parent supplies the X or Y chromosome to the female parent... |
| 07:20.45 | Jamash | go on |
| 07:21.02 | Shirik | the female ends up supplying and delivering the child... |
| 07:21.12 | Shirik | s/supplying/creating/ |
| 07:21.25 | Jamash | I would have paid a lot more attention in health class if they'd provided a properly documented API |
| 07:21.33 | Shirik | ha |
| 07:21.49 | Thunder_Child | ~lart Jamash |
| 07:21.49 | purl | nukes Jamash with a single large nuke |
| 07:22.07 | Shirik | anyway krka the design may seem a bit strange at first, but it has saved me an immense amount of time not having to recode that method |
| 07:22.12 | Shirik | which happens to sit in an abstract class |
| 07:22.19 | krka | bad design is bad :P |
| 07:22.30 | Matsy | Needs more 'a instead of <A> :< |
| 07:22.40 | Shirik | you know what's really fun |
| 07:22.45 | Shirik | creating a UML diagram of a UML diagarm |
| 07:23.01 | Shirik | Because what I'm working on right now is automatic code generation from UML and SysML |
| 07:23.10 | Shirik | and I had to come up with a design to appropriately parse the UML diagram |
| 07:23.13 | Matsy | Stuff like that already exists? |
| 07:23.19 | Shirik | not good enough :) |
| 07:23.20 | Matsy | ;o |
| 07:23.24 | Matsy | What. |
| 07:23.29 | Matsy | The eclipse addons do a wonderful job. |
| 07:23.36 | Shirik | before I get into "eclipse is bad" |
| 07:23.40 | Matsy | You shouldn't. |
| 07:23.48 | Shirik | I promise you, the FAA wouldn't like it |
| 07:23.51 | Shirik | even if it was perfect in every way |
| 07:23.56 | Matsy | Okay |
| 07:23.59 | Matsy | Now, get into the 'eclipse is bad' |
| 07:24.05 | Shirik | eclipse is bad |
| 07:24.06 | Shirik | in every way |
| 07:24.14 | Jamash | I tried to use eclipse once |
| 07:24.16 | Matsy | Do you have an example? |
| 07:24.28 | Shirik | it's not netbeans |
| 07:24.34 | Jamash | it's like the emacs of software development tools |
| 07:24.45 | Matsy | HAHA |
| 07:24.45 | Matsy | You prefer |
| 07:24.45 | Matsy | NETBEANS |
| 07:24.45 | Matsy | over Eclipse? |
| 07:24.46 | krka | eclipse has some flaws compared to intellij but it's still pretty good |
| 07:24.47 | Shirik | netbeans is god |
| 07:24.49 | Matsy | Wow |
| 07:24.50 | Matsy | What |
| 07:24.53 | Matsy | No, seriously |
| 07:24.56 | Matsy | I had not expected this |
| 07:25.01 | Matsy | Sure, intellij |
| 07:25.05 | Matsy | That's doable |
| 07:25.08 | Matsy | But, netbeans... |
| 07:25.16 | Shirik | admittedly I haven't used eclipse in about 4 years now |
| 07:25.16 | Matsy | Have you ever created some web project in Netbeans? |
| 07:25.20 | Matsy | ... |
| 07:25.20 | Shirik | however |
| 07:25.20 | Matsy | 4 years |
| 07:25.24 | Matsy | That makes sense then |
| 07:25.33 | Shirik | it was bad enough 4 years ago to not make me want to go back :) |
| 07:25.40 | Matsy | And instead |
| 07:25.45 | Matsy | You pick the buggy Netbeans |
| 07:25.51 | Shirik | buggy? |
| 07:25.54 | Matsy | Yes, buggy. |
| 07:26.07 | Shirik | The only bug I've found so far is that it doesn't like my @inheritDoc javadoc tags across projects |
| 07:26.11 | Shirik | keeps saying missing @throws |
| 07:26.13 | Matsy | Uh. |
| 07:26.16 | Matsy | Again the question then |
| 07:26.24 | Matsy | Have you ever worked with Services? |
| 07:26.27 | Matsy | Web services |
| 07:26.33 | Shirik | nope, no reason to |
| 07:26.39 | Matsy | I get your point then |
| 07:26.41 | Shirik | I have to admit, I don't like Java |
| 07:26.41 | Matsy | I really liked Netbeans |
| 07:26.43 | Matsy | Until I worked with that |
| 07:26.49 | Matsy | Netbeans bugged the hell out of me |
| 07:26.53 | Shirik | Like I really don't like Java |
| 07:26.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (n=pancake@cpe-071-076-230-073.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 07:26.59 | Matsy | Who does? |
| 07:27.03 | Matsy | I'm forced to use it |
| 07:27.17 | Shirik | I realize that it has very specific niches which should be used when it is the right tool for the right job |
| 07:27.22 | Shirik | but if it weren't for that I wouldn't use it |
| 07:27.36 | Matsy | I still can't find ANYTHING in Java that C# lacks. |
| 07:27.45 | Shirik | well |
| 07:27.49 | Matsy | Other than horrible background code |
| 07:27.51 | Shirik | that's because 90% of the english language is a keyword in C# |
| 07:28.03 | Matsy | Yes. |
| 07:28.14 | Shirik | like seriously, prime example |
| 07:28.19 | Shirik | there is no need for a "foreach" keyword |
| 07:28.48 | Matsy | Why not? |
| 07:28.59 | Matsy | Java does it with for(x : y) |
| 07:29.04 | Shirik | exactly |
| 07:29.05 | Matsy | And C# does it with foreach(x in y) |
| 07:29.09 | Shirik | so why can't we do that |
| 07:29.13 | Matsy | Why would we? |
| 07:29.16 | Matsy | I like the second way more |
| 07:29.18 | Shirik | you're tying up another potential variable name |
| 07:29.22 | Shirik | two actually |
| 07:29.26 | Shirik | since I don't think "in" has any other use |
| 07:29.35 | Matsy | Okay |
| 07:29.39 | Matsy | Why'd you call a variable: in |
| 07:29.42 | Matsy | Or, foreach |
| 07:29.49 | Matsy | You're a horrible coder whenever you need variable names like that. |
| 07:29.50 | Shirik | foreach may be bad name, but in is meaningful |
| 07:29.55 | Shirik | System.in? |
| 07:29.56 | Matsy | How so? |
| 07:30.08 | theorbtwo | grins. |
| 07:30.12 | Shirik | The other keyword I get pissed about is "is" |
| 07:30.12 | Matsy | Okay :< |
| 07:30.18 | Shirik | because I abbreviate InputStream is |
| 07:30.21 | Matsy | if(test is ObjectType) |
| 07:30.23 | Matsy | That one? |
| 07:30.25 | Shirik | yes |
| 07:30.29 | Matsy | Yeah |
| 07:30.33 | theorbtwo | My pet language, perl, has a for keyword and a foreach keyword. They are completely synonymous; use whichever you like. |
| 07:30.36 | Matsy | But |
| 07:30.43 | Matsy | The way to do that in Java is even more horrible |
| 07:30.49 | Shirik | I will agree with that |
| 07:31.09 | Shirik | Though, in all honesty, Visual Studio basically refuses to let me use "is" for anything |
| 07:31.17 | Shirik | because generally when I use "is" I intend to cast it afterwards |
| 07:31.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Freek (n=Freek@unaffiliated/freekboy) |
| 07:31.26 | Shirik | after which it yells at you for not caching the result with "as" instead |
| 07:31.56 | Shirik | if (foo is Bar) { bar = (Bar) foo } |
| 07:32.01 | Shirik | results in two classcast opcodes |
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| 07:32.23 | Shirik | bar = foo as Bar; if (bar != null) { ... } |
| 07:32.27 | Shirik | results in only one |
| 07:32.39 | Shirik | a meaningful warning, but I find myself lacking the need for "is" frequently :) |
| 07:32.43 | Shirik | But it needs to be there for sure |
| 07:32.47 | Shirik | that's not something you can do without |
| 07:32.49 | Matsy | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:32.52 | Matsy | Why dont you do that? |
| 07:32.59 | Shirik | wtf is that |
| 07:33.04 | theorbtwo | Er, surely this should be fixed by the optimizer rather then the programmer. |
| 07:33.06 | Matsy | You can use all keywords |
| 07:33.08 | Matsy | With an @ before them. |
| 07:33.16 | Shirik | bleh I'm not going to do that :P |
| 07:33.19 | Matsy | >_> |
| 07:33.27 | theorbtwo | Matsy: Because it's ugly and easy to muck up? |
| 07:33.37 | Matsy | Not quite. |
| 07:33.39 | Shirik | Is @ a valid identifier character anywhere, or just at the start? |
| 07:33.56 | Matsy | At the start only |
| 07:34.15 | Shirik | !!!! |
| 07:34.40 | Shirik | Is @is = new As() as Is; if (@is is As) { ... } |
| 07:34.42 | Shirik | that is win |
| 07:34.45 | Matsy | LOL |
| 07:34.57 | Jamash | oh ho ho |
| 07:36.00 | Shirik | theorbtwo: Back to your statement, that's probably true |
| 07:36.11 | Shirik | however (1) it seems Microsoft doesn't really care about optimizing as much as they do in C++ |
| 07:36.26 | Shirik | and (2) this is code analysis; regardless of whether or not it can be optimized away, it should tell you when you're being stupid |
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| 07:37.06 | Matsy | Code Analysis actually works pretty well on VS2010 |
| 07:37.13 | Shirik | I'm not sure whether I like it or not |
| 07:37.20 | Shirik | it's too aggressive in my opinion |
| 07:37.32 | Shirik | for example, it insists on pulling people away from the old naming convention of CAPITALIZED_CONSTANTS |
| 07:37.56 | Shirik | "public members should be PascalCase" "public members should not use underscores" |
| 07:38.40 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 07:38.50 | Matsy | I really hate those entries too |
| 07:38.55 | Shirik | I just ignore them |
| 07:39.02 | Matsy | Nono |
| 07:39.03 | Matsy | I mean |
| 07:39.04 | Matsy | In Java |
| 07:39.12 | Shirik | hm? |
| 07:39.13 | Matsy | All the enums / finals are capitalized |
| 07:39.17 | Corrodias | allow me to impose my arbitrary standards upon you. |
| 07:39.26 | Shirik | That's how it's been for years |
| 07:39.27 | Matsy | So, it's really annoying to type them out. |
| 07:39.29 | Matsy | Yeah |
| 07:39.31 | Shirik | You know |
| 07:39.37 | Corrodias | can't you just hold shift? |
| 07:39.38 | Shirik | if you had netbeans you probably wouldn't have to type them out >.> |
| 07:39.42 | Matsy | Uh |
| 07:39.46 | Matsy | In Netbeans |
| 07:39.46 | Shirik | Actually, I was really scared today |
| 07:39.48 | Corrodias | CAPITAL letters |
| 07:39.50 | Matsy | You can't do whatever you can do with Eclipse! |
| 07:39.55 | Shirik | We use Visual Assist at work |
| 07:40.02 | Shirik | and omg it was reading my mind |
| 07:40.07 | Shirik | I guess I kept using the same set of enums |
| 07:40.20 | Shirik | MessageBoxButtons.OK, MessageBoxDefaultButton.Button1, MessageBoxType.Warning, etc. |
| 07:40.31 | Shirik | So it got to the point where I literally didn't have to type anything |
| 07:40.39 | Shirik | I type MessageBox.Show(message, caption, |
| 07:40.54 | Shirik | and instantly it pops up MessageBoxButtons, so I just hit the "dot" and it pulls up "OK" |
| 07:41.00 | Shirik | and these weren't the first options in the list, it was pre-selecting them |
| 07:41.06 | Matsy | Eh ;p |
| 07:41.12 | Shirik | so I guess it figures out over time which ones you use the most |
| 07:41.15 | Shirik | and starts offering those first |
| 07:41.22 | Matsy | Have you ever tried ReSharper? |
| 07:41.24 | Shirik | it was kinda scary though |
| 07:41.25 | Shirik | nope |
| 07:41.30 | Matsy | Do you know about it? |
| 07:41.33 | Shirik | nope |
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| 07:41.38 | Matsy | Never mind then ;p |
| 07:41.59 | Shirik | but by far the best add-in I have is viemu |
| 07:42.13 | Shirik | if nothing else, it prevents other people from using my computer |
| 07:42.14 | Shirik | muahaha |
| 07:42.44 | Shirik | oh |
| 07:42.47 | Shirik | since you've been using VS2010 |
| 07:42.59 | Shirik | did they get rid of the incredibly stupid restriction where you have to suspend the process before you can modify code? |
| 07:43.30 | Shirik | Like I can't even type comments while the process is running |
| 07:43.33 | Shirik | that's horrid |
| 07:43.52 | zenzio | is that VC++ or VC#? |
| 07:43.57 | Shirik | C# |
| 07:44.00 | Shirik | C++ doesn't do that |
| 07:44.20 | Fisker- | i can try it out |
| 07:44.27 | Shirik | if I show you how to get bigger balls? |
| 07:44.33 | Fisker- | maybe |
| 07:45.47 | Fisker- | still can't change anything |
| 07:46.07 | Shirik | what crap |
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| 07:46.31 | Shirik | anyway, do you really want me to tell you how Fisker-? |
| 07:46.32 | Shirik | It's really simple |
| 07:47.22 | Thunder_Child | it is actually |
| 07:47.33 | Shirik | the very first line in the program is "local e = {}" |
| 07:47.44 | Shirik | I changed it to "local e = {}; PEGGLE=e" |
| 07:47.55 | Shirik | then /dump PEGGLE and you will find a lot of fun stuff to play with |
| 07:48.13 | Shirik | just don't make your balls too big |
| 07:48.21 | Shirik | ther'es actually like a "sweet spot" |
| 07:48.34 | Shirik | around 30 or so is pretty good |
| 07:48.48 | Shirik | if you make it too big then it starts going through things |
| 07:48.55 | Fisker- | There's an option to make editing possible btw |
| 07:48.59 | Wobin | om nomnomnom |
| 07:49.00 | Fisker- | just doesn't work in VS2010 apparently |
| 07:49.02 | Wobin | xiao long bao |
| 07:49.40 | Shirik | she she |
| 07:49.56 | Fisker- | http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/csharpide/thread/62eecd4c-3a54-47f1-9710-3c260205342d |
| 07:50.00 | Fisker- | Try taking a look at that though |
| 07:50.01 | Shirik | anata wa nihongo ga wakarimasu ka? |
| 07:50.02 | Fisker- | may work for you |
| 07:50.11 | Wobin | oh these are good! |
| 07:51.29 | Shirik | that's a very odd option to turn off |
| 07:51.37 | Shirik | because that option is NOT directly related to the problem |
| 07:51.46 | Shirik | but I'll try it; it makes sense |
| 07:51.52 | Shirik | but it seems more side-effecty than anything else |
| 07:51.56 | Jamash | ããã¯ãããã´ã¤ãã§ã |
| 07:52.31 | Shirik | æ¥æ¬èªãããã¾ãããï¼ï¼ |
| 07:52.51 | Jamash | I can only write japanese, I can't read it |
| 07:52.59 | Wobin | I can read hirigana |
| 07:53.03 | Wobin | I just can't understand it |
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| 07:53.07 | Shirik | lol |
| 07:53.17 | Shirik | I'm closer to Wobin's boat right now |
| 07:53.24 | Wobin | And I can make relatively good guesses with the kanji |
| 07:53.24 | Elkano | well, I can read, write and understand some basic stuff |
| 07:53.25 | Shirik | though that says "I don't understand Japanese" |
| 07:53.28 | Wobin | but only the simpler characters |
| 07:53.41 | Wobin | eg, first three mean "Japanese language" |
| 07:53.49 | Shirik | youp |
| 07:54.03 | Elkano | how did you enter the chars? C&P from a website? |
| 07:54.04 | Shirik | "wakarimasen" -- don't understand |
| 07:54.11 | Shirik | I have japanese IME installed |
| 07:54.12 | krka | wakka wakka wakka |
| 07:54.43 | zenzio | that sounds Australian krka |
| 07:54.47 | Jamash | I wrote "this is a pencil" |
| 07:54.52 | Wobin | but seriously these dumplings rock |
| 07:55.02 | Shirik | wakka wakka wakka wakka wuu wuu wuu |
| 07:55.20 | Wobin | if you can find a good resteraunt that does genuine shanghainese xiao long bao, I heartily recommend it |
| 07:57.00 | Shirik | you know |
| 07:57.08 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 07:57.09 | Shirik | reading wikipedia's "proposed deletion" pages |
| 07:57.12 | Shirik | very amusing |
| 07:57.15 | Wobin | so.. how does one fill these battlebots up? |
| 07:57.19 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zots |
| 07:57.52 | Thunder_Child | Wobin http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/faq/mountain-dew.html |
| 07:57.53 | Thunder_Child | midway down |
| 07:58.02 | Thunder_Child | ok, a little low |
| 07:58.04 | Thunder_Child | er |
| 07:59.18 | Wobin | rrr |
| 07:59.25 | Wobin | You mean I can't earn fuel |
| 07:59.29 | Wobin | because I'm not a US citizen? |
| 07:59.34 | Wobin | FAILDEW |
| 07:59.44 | Thunder_Child | lua> 13237/351 |
| 07:59.44 | lua_bot | Thunder_Child: 37.712250712251 |
| 07:59.50 | Cairenn | Wobin: ditto |
| 07:59.52 | Thunder_Child | Wobin, how is that? |
| 08:00.07 | Wobin | I have to be a legal US resident to sign in |
| 08:00.11 | Cairenn | yep |
| 08:00.26 | Wobin | I wonder if I can just change my country to US |
| 08:00.33 | Thunder_Child | yet EU can get the bots... |
| 08:00.39 | Cairenn | we can get the bots |
| 08:00.42 | Cairenn | we can't get the fuel |
| 08:00.46 | Wobin | we just can't do anything with them =P |
| 08:01.16 | Thunder_Child | i cant find where it says that |
| 08:01.24 | Wobin | it happens when you try to sign in |
| 08:01.30 | Thunder_Child | to? |
| 08:01.39 | Cairenn | the Mt. Dew site |
| 08:01.45 | Cairenn | you have to sign in to get the fuel |
| 08:01.51 | Thunder_Child | but didnt you have to do that to get the key? |
| 08:01.53 | Cairenn | just like to get tokens for the prizes |
| 08:01.54 | Cairenn | no |
| 08:01.58 | Cairenn | you can get the pet |
| 08:02.00 | Cairenn | but not the fuel |
| 08:02.25 | Thunder_Child | odd..the rules say you have to sign in to get the pet |
| 08:02.34 | Cairenn | to your battlenet account |
| 08:02.38 | Cairenn | not to the mt. dew site |
| 08:02.50 | Thunder_Child | How do I get the Battle-Bot Ignition Key? |
| 08:02.50 | Thunder_Child | To claim the Battle-Bot pet, visit the promotion website at www.mountaindewgamefuel.com and follow the instructions there |
| 08:02.53 | Thunder_Child | etc. |
| 08:03.09 | Thunder_Child | *srugh* |
| 08:03.14 | Thunder_Child | shrug* |
| 08:03.16 | Cairenn | yeah, but if you click on the button for the pet (top right corner) it takes you to your battlenet account sign in |
| 08:03.54 | Wobin | what's a zipcode in hawaii? |
| 08:04.02 | Wobin | I've always wanted to live there |
| 08:04.09 | Cairenn | You think I wouldn't be hammering the page for all I was worth if I could be? I would dearly love a shot at a free laptop |
| 08:04.39 | Wobin | meh, chances of the competition being valid in oceania is about zero |
| 08:04.47 | Cairenn | it isn't |
| 08:04.52 | Cairenn | US only |
| 08:04.58 | Cairenn | pet can be by anyone |
| 08:06.53 | Matsy | ... |
| 08:06.55 | Matsy | fail |
| 08:06.59 | Matsy | You need to be a US resident |
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| 08:09.48 | Wobin | Matsy: Come live with me in Oregon 97214 |
| 08:10.02 | Wobin | we can make a commune |
| 08:10.06 | Matsy | I live in Main already! |
| 08:10.14 | Matsy | Brooklin, Main, 04616! |
| 08:10.29 | Matsy | At the address of some sailing company |
| 08:10.36 | Matsy | I can't move that fast :< |
| 08:11.40 | Matsy | what |
| 08:11.42 | Matsy | I need a WoW account |
| 08:11.56 | Thunder_Child | a trial works amusingly enough |
| 08:12.19 | Matsy | Yet |
| 08:12.24 | Matsy | Uh |
| 08:12.27 | Matsy | How can I transfer that |
| 08:12.29 | Matsy | To a european account |
| 08:12.31 | Matsy | I dont think I can, right |
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| 08:16.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Mclol (n=Eustaqui@200.pool85-60-59.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 08:17.27 | Mclol | hi |
| 08:17.34 | Thunder_Child | hello |
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| 08:29.49 | Mclol | do you have any idea to make a simple addon? ^^ |
| 08:30.02 | Shirik | hahaha wtf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireplague |
| 08:31.08 | Mclol | xDDDDD |
| 08:34.05 | Matsy | Use {{hangon}}! |
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| 08:36.24 | Matsy | I'm improving it |
| 08:38.10 | Corrodias | "adopted a number of myths and characteristics that were distinctly unique." |
| 08:39.04 | Corrodias | that's the most redundant -and- paradoxical thing i've read in my time. |
| 08:39.36 | Matsy | Who is that, LOL |
| 08:39.37 | Matsy | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:46.48 | Shirik | oh holy crap |
| 08:46.59 | Shirik | ok so I'm on some other article |
| 08:47.05 | Shirik | I mark it as a candidate for speedy deletion |
| 08:47.13 | Shirik | I go over to the user's talk page to put up a warning |
| 08:47.32 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kappa |
| 08:47.36 | Shirik | That is a hell of a lot of warnings |
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| 08:53.35 | Thunder_Child | wow, someone needs to do a sociology study on wikipedia since it seems to have it's own internal legal/government system |
| 08:54.39 | Shirik | :P |
| 08:55.03 | Shirik | there are a lot of policies :) |
| 08:55.18 | Shirik | I don't try to understand them all, when I mess with wikipedia I just tend to spend time in the "cleanup" areas |
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| 09:00.47 | Shirik | wow |
| 09:01.01 | Shirik | if only our government was that fast |
| 09:01.24 | Shirik | I put up deletion request, went over to history page to look up who made it to put up a warning, and the page was already gone >.> |
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| 09:15.39 | jnwhiteh | so why would I want to merge my wow account and my battle.net account? |
| 09:16.05 | Grum | so you can lose access to multiple games when you get hacked |
| 09:17.05 | jnwhiteh | schweet |
| 09:17.37 | Cairenn | and so they can order a whole whack load of stuff from the Blizz Store on your CC |
| 09:18.02 | jnwhiteh | even more schweet |
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| 09:29.30 | Jamash | only reason I merged mine was to get the battle bot |
| 09:30.50 | Thunder_Child | same |
| 09:30.55 | Thunder_Child | and i feel dirty now |
| 09:31.26 | ZorbaTHut | I think I'm explicitly not getting the battlebot, partially because I don't want to merge 'em :P |
| 09:32.47 | Thunder_Child | it's going to happen eventually i figure i might as well get something out of it other than iritation |
| 09:33.49 | Jamash | I decided that I would only merge my account if they offered something I couldn't get otherwise |
| 09:33.57 | Jamash | and they did, so. |
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| 10:13.07 | Arrowmaster | i swear im going to come up with something to make downloads use multiple short connections instead of a single long connection just to fuck with isps that do this gay delayed download speed cap shit |
| 10:15.01 | zenzio | I know GetRight has some sort of segmented downloading mode |
| 10:15.16 | zenzio | can't remember if it required different servers or whether it can do it on a single server |
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| 10:18.57 | Arrowmaster | i had an xdcc transfer going at 2MB/s at first then it cut down to 1MB/s |
| 10:19.07 | ZorbaTHut | alright, suggestions wanted: there's a common UI mod that's buggy and breaks Questhelper. I'm tired of fielding bug reports about it. What should I do? Post a message on logon "you are using X, it's broken, I can't do anything about it", or something else? |
| 10:19.43 | Arrowmaster | sounds fine |
| 10:19.43 | zenzio | I'd give a warning message about it once, but not on every load |
| 10:19.46 | Arrowmaster | whats the addon? |
| 10:20.04 | ZorbaTHut | There's three bugs listed in their tracker on it, it's a common subject on their message boards, they're just clearly not going to fix it now :/ |
| 10:20.07 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, Cartographer |
| 10:20.18 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 10:20.31 | zenzio | how does it interfere with QH? |
| 10:20.39 | ZorbaTHut | oh hey you're listed as an author :P |
| 10:20.56 | Arrowmaster | make a patch and i might apply it |
| 10:21.01 | ZorbaTHut | zenzio, QH calls functions to find out where the player is. Cartographer hooks those functions, and if they're called, shits itself and disables the right-click button |
| 10:21.10 | zenzio | I see |
| 10:21.42 | ZorbaTHut | problem is, if it's only mentioned once, nobody will see it. I think I might put it in with a command to disable it |
| 10:22.27 | Arrowmaster | if you know where the problem is in cartographer make a patch, i have no clue where it is and cant be asked to find it |
| 10:22.39 | zenzio | when I say "warning message", I mean a frame in the middle of your screen that you need to dismiss manually |
| 10:22.47 | ZorbaTHut | the problem is with cartographer instance, but I have no idea where in there |
| 10:24.11 | ZorbaTHut | if you disabled that, that'd fix it, at least :P |
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| 11:32.28 | Arrowmaster | i feel like more of an old man today, ill go sleep now |
| 11:33.55 | sp0ckk | haha |
| 11:33.58 | sp0ckk | look it too |
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| 12:22.05 | laeg | when i equip my fishing pole with a macro the music stops, when i use the same macro to unequip it the music continues |
| 12:22.08 | laeg | any ideas? |
| 12:23.01 | Gotai | You probably have a fishing addon that does that. |
| 12:23.47 | Gotai | Most of them have an option to disable music and make sfx louder so you can hear the bobber splash more clearly. |
| 12:25.47 | jnwhiteh | so |
| 12:25.49 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:26.05 | jnwhiteh | What quest lines do I need to do to escape the phasing in Storm Peaks and Icecrown? |
| 12:26.13 | jnwhiteh | although I suspect this is a complex question |
| 12:31.09 | [Ammo] | jnwhiteh: I solved that by doing them all |
| 12:31.12 | [Ammo] | good gold! :) |
| 12:31.24 | a_nil_value | Has anyone done anything with gnomish telephone book that would create a webpage out of the saved vars? |
| 12:31.51 | a_nil_value | sorry, gnomish yellow pages |
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| 12:36.02 | Wobin | laeg: FishermansFriend or somesuch |
| 12:36.13 | Wobin | jnwhiteh: escape? |
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| 12:38.33 | zenzio | tickles Lopeppeppy |
| 12:38.59 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, zenzio! |
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| 12:42.37 | Mclol | hey |
| 12:43.01 | Mclol | is there any way to link "professions" with custom recipes? |
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| 12:46.53 | Aelobin | how dyou get to the nexus without a flying mount? |
| 12:47.27 | zenzio | flight path from the place just southeast of Coldarra |
| 12:49.55 | Aelobin | amber ledge? not showing a flight path from there |
| 12:50.43 | zenzio | the dragon should have it |
| 12:50.43 | laeg | Wobin: i've no fishing mods at all? |
| 12:50.52 | zenzio | Aelobin: maybe you have to do some quests there first before they'll offer the fligth path, I'm not sure |
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| 12:51.12 | Wobin | laeg: That's the only thing I know of that'll affect music with the fishing rod that way |
| 13:06.29 | laeg | Wobin: i'm equiping it with a macro which has a hotkey of alt+` |
| 13:06.30 | laeg | ? |
| 13:09.54 | laeg | don't think it's the key combo because it happens when i use outfitter to make the change also |
| 13:10.03 | laeg | the macro i've been use that's hot keyed has outfitter functions in it |
| 13:10.25 | Grum | is there any lootsetting that combines masterloot with ffa for anything which is below the treshold? |
| 13:13.31 | Lopeppeppy | There used to be, Grum... we used it back in Molten Core with the corehounds... but I think it got removed. |
| 13:14.39 | Grum | is there any addon which can do this then? |
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| 13:14.53 | Grum | when you engage a boss put on ML and drop back to FFA whenever you want? |
| 13:15.53 | Lopeppeppy | I don't think an addon can make a change in combat like that... but I could be wrong. |
| 13:16.18 | Grum | oh you can change it in combat |
| 13:16.28 | Lopeppeppy | The get crackin' on your addon. :) |
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| 14:00.33 | airtonix | is the only way to determine the unit a spell is being cast upon via combat log? |
| 14:01.07 | airtonix | considering the scenario where a player uses mousover macros to heal? |
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| 14:03.56 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/121141140 |
| 14:05.45 | Pharaunmizz | airtonix: last time I looked at the API, that was what it came down to, parsing after the fact on damage / etc. |
| 14:06.12 | Grum | when you merge with a battlenet-thingie does your user/password change that you log in with on wow? |
| 14:06.17 | Grum | or just the blizz forums? |
| 14:06.54 | alestane | Grum: If your battle.net account password is different from your WoW account password, then yes, it will change. |
| 14:07.03 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, you will be changing your username to something email based too. |
| 14:07.03 | Grum | and your wow-login? |
| 14:07.10 | Grum | sigh |
| 14:07.12 | Grum | crappy shit |
| 14:07.31 | Lopeppeppy | Fun times. |
| 14:07.34 | Grum | and obvioulsy during the transition you cant know which details will let you log in |
| 14:08.17 | Lopeppeppy | I had pretty much instant update when I updated to battlenet, I was able to log into WoW with the info right away. But YMMV. You may be locking yourself out of WoW for a period of time, so maybe do it last thing before bed? |
| 14:08.41 | Grum | aye |
| 14:08.43 | Grum | or not at all |
| 14:08.51 | Grum | there is 0 benefit other than a possible pet you can keep in EU |
| 14:10.52 | Fisker- | Pets > 0 |
| 14:10.57 | Fisker- | Also multiple accounts |
| 14:10.59 | Fisker- | also starcraft 2 beta |
| 14:11.07 | Fisker- | also battle.net authenticator |
| 14:17.15 | airtonix | Pharaunmizz, sweet i'm using ouf and all i needed to do was : self:RegisterEvent("UNIT_SPELLCAST_SENT", UNIT_SPELLCAST_SENT) on my style function |
| 14:17.45 | airtonix | Pharaunmizz, this one event returns the recipient of a spell |
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| 14:21.27 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
| 14:22.25 | zGhost | morning kneeki |
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| 14:27.12 | dardack | morning |
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| 14:46.45 | jnwhiteh | Wobin: I can't kill worms =) |
| 14:46.49 | jnwhiteh | because they're not there for me. |
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| 14:54.15 | AckisWork | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/funny-pictures-you-have-a-very-dangerous-box.jpg |
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| 15:06.12 | AckisWork | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/fail-owned-puddle-win.jpg |
| 15:07.41 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/artbrowser or http://wowprogramming.com/utils/texbrowser |
| 15:07.44 | jnwhiteh | which name would you prefer? |
| 15:08.22 | AckisWork | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/iworshipackisandtomtomisakeylogger |
| 15:08.44 | zenzelezz | jnwhiteh: I'd go with art |
| 15:08.56 | zenzelezz | but only because the other makes me think of (La)TeX |
| 15:08.57 | cog|away | i'd say "art" since that's what the addon kit calls it |
| 15:09.06 | cog|away | (blizzard interface art) |
| 15:09.13 | zenzelezz | good point |
| 15:09.40 | jnwhiteh | ok |
| 15:09.41 | jnwhiteh | thanks for the feedback |
| 15:10.42 | Seerah | art also cause tex always makes me think text |
| 15:10.47 | jnwhiteh | heh |
| 15:10.51 | jnwhiteh | yeah thats what i was thinking |
| 15:12.48 | AckisWork | what's this about if you don't mind me being a dumbass? |
| 15:13.08 | cogwheel | you say that as if it's a change from normal |
| 15:13.20 | cogwheel | :P |
| 15:13.31 | *** join/#wowuidev dibri (n=dibri@obelix.its-s.tudelft.nl) |
| 15:14.49 | Hirsute | Bah. No level 80 tenacity pets. None above 77 for alliance. *shakes fist* |
| 15:15.37 | alestane | And doesn't it hardly matter anymore? You can train a friggin' level 30 turtle out of Alterac and it'll be level 75. |
| 15:16.01 | Hirsute | alestane: Aye, it's *far less* irritating to level pets. That 5 levels still takes a while though. |
| 15:16.20 | jnwhiteh | AckisWork: whats what about? |
| 15:16.27 | jnwhiteh | its about being able to browse the blizz interface art on the web |
| 15:16.29 | jnwhiteh | if that's what you mean |
| 15:16.35 | alestane | http://notalwaysright.com/fudge-in-flight/2066 |
| 15:16.37 | AckisWork | ah yah that's what I was asking |
| 15:16.58 | Hirsute | I'm abandoning a level 80 rhino for a pet I can use in my SV build, and am not really *wanting* to re-level a pet, but I certainly can do it. |
| 15:17.18 | Hirsute | also: the level 78 horde-only tenacity pet? Coolest boar model I've ever seen. |
| 15:17.41 | zenzelezz | which one is that? |
| 15:17.42 | End | how is it horde only? is it alliance aligned or something? |
| 15:17.49 | Hirsute | End: Yes |
| 15:17.57 | Hirsute | zenzelezz: one moment |
| 15:18.42 | zenzelezz | Beast Mastery 81-point talent: "Strong Persuasion. Allows you to tame other hunters' pets" |
| 15:19.00 | Hirsute | http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=29996 <---zenzelezz |
| 15:19.18 | Hirsute | Nice thing is, if I *do* decide to go ahead and level it, there are other boars with the same model. |
| 15:19.30 | End | lol |
| 15:19.44 | End | it's an npc's pet already even :P |
| 15:19.45 | zenzelezz | I see |
| 15:20.18 | Hirsute | *nod* |
| 15:20.40 | Hirsute | Looks like a trip to RFK is in my future. |
| 15:22.01 | Hirsute | I need to go there for the achievement anyway, looks like. |
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| 15:46.32 | dibri | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=114923143&sid=1 <- anyone expericing this on LAN? |
| 15:46.49 | dibri | not really a dev question though |
| 15:47.12 | ScytheBlade1 | er, that thread is from 07 |
| 15:47.31 | dibri | ScytheBlade1: yet I have the exact same problem |
| 15:47.57 | AckisWork | i think i have a lump in my man-boob |
| 15:48.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Might I suggest applying multiple year old router firmware updates then? =] |
| 15:48.07 | dibri | whats a manboob |
| 15:48.29 | End | ~lart AckisWork |
| 15:48.29 | purl | changes AckisWork's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 15:48.31 | dibri | ScytheBlade1: as can be seen in the thread it's not router related, I dont even use a router |
| 15:49.08 | AckisWork | ~rlart |
| 15:49.08 | purl | whips spode with a wet and grimy noodle just because |
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| 15:51.14 | Lopeppeppy | You know what dibri, I'd suggest posting in that thread, if the solutions found in it can't help you. |
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| 15:54.41 | Pharaunmizz | !api death |
| 15:54.41 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'death': GetDeathReleasePosition, UnitIsFeignDeath |
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| 15:56.24 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Lunessa. |
| 15:56.28 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:02.22 | Hirsute | !api UnitIsFeignDeath |
| 16:02.22 | lua_bot | UnitIsFeignDeath: Returns whether or not a given unit is feigning death (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/UnitIsFeignDeath) |
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| 16:04.05 | Pharaunmizz | Mm do you think using PARTY_MEMBER_DISABLE a good enough proxy for determining party wipes? |
| 16:05.26 | durcyn | i use UnitIsDeadOrGhost and UnitIsFeignDeath for wipe detection in Casualty, it's Good Enough(tm) |
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| 16:06.14 | Pharaunmizz | do you just poll all party members every so often? |
| 16:06.38 | Pharaunmizz | or on a disable event, poll all party members? |
| 16:08.49 | Hirsute | Would UnitAffectingCombat work on Boss's/ |
| 16:08.51 | Hirsute | ? |
| 16:09.04 | Gnarfoz | sure |
| 16:09.14 | Hirsute | If so, you could probably just use it to check to see if the boss is in combat. If he was, but no longer is, and he's not dead, you wiped. |
| 16:10.15 | durcyn | i check the roster on CLEU/UNIT_DIED, Pharaunmizz |
| 16:10.23 | durcyn | well, check the unit anyway |
| 16:10.24 | Gnarfoz | unitaffectingcombat is a relationship check though, so if you're checking "player" vs "target" |
| 16:10.28 | Gnarfoz | and you're dead |
| 16:10.31 | Gnarfoz | then it will return false |
| 16:10.36 | Hirsute | Ah |
| 16:10.38 | Gnarfoz | even though someone else might still be in combat with them |
| 16:10.40 | Hirsute | Good call |
| 16:10.56 | Gnarfoz | in other news: http://www.wimp.com/publicbeatboxer/ < awesome |
| 16:12.23 | Hirsute | I need to stay off the forums today. There's a big, obnoxious and persistent part of me that wants to fight with users. I'm still in a rotten mood after my Ulduar run the other night. |
| 16:12.31 | Mystical | hi there |
| 16:12.42 | Pharaunmizz | Hmm I was sort of looking for a way to not have to touch CLEU :( but if that's the only for sure way, then bah |
| 16:13.32 | zenzelezz | you don't need to touch, just listen |
| 16:13.33 | zenzelezz | ;-o |
| 16:13.47 | Pharaunmizz | ba-dum tchhhh |
| 16:13.53 | durcyn | CLEU's not evil |
| 16:14.14 | Pharaunmizz | No it's not evil, it just happens a lot more often than something like P_member_disable |
| 16:14.15 | Gnarfoz | just make sure you bail out early if it's something else than you want to know |
| 16:14.22 | durcyn | it's spammy, sure, but one ifcheck on subevent == "UNIT_DIED" isn't going to destroy your framerate |
| 16:14.31 | Pharaunmizz | true |
| 16:15.20 | durcyn | after that just check the bitfields, bit.band should be inexpensive as well |
| 16:15.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 16:15.55 | Gnarfoz | if you make a local copy to that that doesn't do a table access each time, too ;) |
| 16:16.08 | durcyn | upvalues are for later, don't fill his head with premature optimizations |
| 16:16.14 | Gnarfoz | right, hehe |
| 16:16.51 | Hirsute | So, in Ulduar the other night, the token for my t8 pants drops. There's one other hunter there, one one warrior who already has the 8.5 pants, and a Shammy who's wearing the t8 pants, too. |
| 16:17.16 | Hirsute | We use a 3 tiered roll system, and I didn't have enough points to roll the highest tier (Shroud). The other hunter did. |
| 16:17.18 | Gnarfoz | loot makes you angry? :> |
| 16:17.27 | Hirsute | I was a little disappointed, but happy for the hunter. |
| 16:17.36 | Fisker- | slaps Gnarfoz around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:17.41 | Hirsute | Then he says, "I'll probably never use them, but that makes 5/5!" |
| 16:17.41 | Fisker- | hey |
| 16:18.12 | Hirsute | It ticked me off just a bit. I can't imagine outrolling someone, on purpose, for something you're not planning to use. |
| 16:19.04 | Hirsute | He was within his rights, and I didn't lodge any complaints about it with the raid organization or anything. But I've been a little grumpy ever since. |
| 16:19.47 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202164112.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 16:20.11 | Hirsute | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:20.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@95.222.224.90) |
| 16:28.15 | Jamash | find a better raid imo |
| 16:28.33 | AckisWork | i need facebook help... I'm in a group and the only admin of the group doesn't seem to be in the group anymore, their name is black (can't click on it), facebook says you can take over the group but I can't find out how? |
| 16:28.59 | Hirsute | AckisWork: No idea. |
| 16:29.42 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 16:31.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-082-212-057-162.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:32.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Hirsute: loot council wins |
| 16:33.56 | Hirsute | ScytheBlade1: Yeah. Like I said, he was within the rules, it was my first time with the group, where he's been with them for a while, it was night two and I hadn't been there on night one. I can't blame him at all for rolling on the pants. I'd have been just fine losing the roll to him, if he hadn't immediately afterward said he didn't think he'd ever use them. |
| 16:34.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (n=Dune@208-104-142-238.rhhe1.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 16:35.50 | zenzelezz | personally I prefer the system my first raid guild used; based on simple plain DKP, but you couldn't have first priority on more than one item per raid (instance) per reset |
| 16:36.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper2 (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-082-212-057-162.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:37.27 | Hirsute | This system works out really well for us, probably 99% of the time, because people are usually pretty cool and sensible about how they use their points. This is the first time I've seen this happen. |
| 16:37.55 | Lunessa | I'm the guy saying "No." http://xkcd.com/595/ |
| 16:37.59 | Hirsute | And, interestingly, I just looked him up on the armory. He *is* using them, and I feel much better now. |
| 16:40.56 | durcyn | Hirsute: at least it's a piece you can get easily from Emalon |
| 16:41.50 | Lopeppeppy | *zzzzap* |
| 16:41.53 | Hirsute | *nod* Like I said, it was the "I'll probably never use them" that bugged me. I'm all about people winning rolls on stuff they'll use. |
| 16:42.29 | zenzelezz | Hirsute: by the way, you said it was your first time with the group; do you mean you're new to the guild? |
| 16:43.16 | Hirsute | zenzelezz: No, my guild is part of a raiding organization that runs... usually between 50 and 100 raids a week, under different charters, or groups. |
| 16:43.34 | zenzelezz | Hirsute: okay, I see |
| 16:43.35 | Hirsute | I've regularly run with this charter, but it was my first time with their Ulduar group |
| 16:43.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Hirsute: really, the only reason loot council is "superior" is because when someone feels like they wrongfully got the short end of the stick, they have a person (or group of persons) to talk to/take it out on, rather than "the system" which prevents any sort of retribution |
| 16:43.56 | Hirsute | I've been doing Naxx25 getting geared up. |
| 16:44.06 | Aelobin | is there any way to use multiple .lua files without having to use global variables? |
| 16:44.18 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 16:44.27 | ScytheBlade1 | There will always be a global variable involved to do that |
| 16:45.02 | Hirsute | ScytheBlade1: *nod* And they occasionally call loot councils when something egregious happens. This was just an irritation that made me somewhat grumpy that I felt like qqing about today, because I realized it's making me want to bite users' heads off. |
| 16:45.13 | foxlit | This concern brought to you by "Every time you use a global, god kills a kitten" foundation. |
| 16:45.14 | ScytheBlade1 | hehe |
| 16:45.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah I know that feeling |
| 16:45.24 | zenzelezz | depends what you mean Aelobin. If the .lua files don't need to exchange data, then you don't need globals |
| 16:45.26 | Hirsute | Really, though, I'm done qqing about it. |
| 16:45.48 | ScytheBlade1 | I ran with DKP from Molten Core through Black Temple |
| 16:45.51 | Aelobin | zenzelezz: they do :< |
| 16:45.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Made me want to stab my guildies |
| 16:46.06 | Aelobin | is there a way to exchange local variables through some kind of global function? |
| 16:46.36 | ScytheBlade1 | globalVar = {["File1"]={}} ? |
| 16:46.38 | zenzelezz | whether or not DKP works varies greatly from guild to guild; in my experience anyway. Had both great and horrible systems :-| |
| 16:47.33 | durcyn | Aelobin: if you're using, say, ace3, just local Foo = LibStub("AceAddon-3.0"):GetAddon("Foo") and go from there, otherwise emulate that functionality with one global table, same idea |
| 16:48.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 16:50.35 | Gnarfoz | Hirsute: 50 to 100 raids a week? wtf |
| 16:51.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@95.222.224.90) |
| 16:52.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:52.23 | Hirsute | Gnarfoz: Yep. As of now there are 93 on the schedule for this week. |
| 16:52.23 | zenzelezz | "21.5 inch monitor"... that just sounds wrong |
| 16:52.37 | Mystical | could someone have a look at the code i've written so far and tell me if there is any "dirty code" within? It's my first (pseudo?) object orientated wow addon so i dont want to build up on smth. that may be wrong / "dirty". All files browsable at http://forsaken.homeip.net/watchthis/oop_lua_apiclass.html (even if there are many files already its not that much code) |
| 16:52.54 | Gnarfoz | Hirsute: :O is this something server side, basically organzied PUGs? or how does it work? |
| 16:52.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 16:52.59 | Gnarfoz | err... server-wide |
| 16:53.49 | Hirsute | Gnarfoz: Alliance only, but... it isn't really organized pugs. Charters are organized (often around guild lines), but people sign up in advanced, get experience with a fairly consistent group of people. There are 40 charters. |
| 16:54.09 | zenzelezz | Hirsute: which realm is this? |
| 16:54.14 | Hirsute | Silver Hand |
| 16:54.19 | Gnarfoz | sounds like that encompasses more players than my realm has, total |
| 16:54.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 16:54.20 | Gnarfoz | ;D |
| 16:54.21 | zenzelezz | EU or US? |
| 16:54.27 | Hirsute | US |
| 16:54.35 | Hirsute | Group is called Leftovers |
| 16:54.52 | Gnarfoz | how appropriate |
| 16:54.57 | Hirsute | It's a big, big organization. |
| 16:55.11 | Gnarfoz | yeah, I get that feeling, hehe |
| 16:55.40 | Hirsute | Basically was started by people in a couple of guilds that were PvP guilds, mainly, but wanted to see end-game raid content, so they formed a "meta guild" that allowed them to organize their raids without leaving their in-game guilds. |
| 16:55.50 | Hirsute | That was 5 years ago, and it's been growing ever since. |
| 16:56.11 | zenzelezz | sounds really cool |
| 16:56.38 | zenzelezz | I guess that also allows people to have a bit more relaxed schedules |
| 16:56.40 | Hirsute | It is. It's the only way I'm ever able to raid, because my schedule is pretty restricted because of school. |
| 16:56.46 | zenzelezz | haha |
| 16:56.47 | zenzelezz | exactly |
| 16:57.15 | Hirsute | So I hop on, look for a charter that's running a raid I'm geared for at the time I can run, and can usually find something. |
| 16:57.37 | Gnarfoz | amazing, sounds like the solution to PUGs being piles of steaming... terribads |
| 16:57.38 | zenzelezz | pity it's US ;) |
| 16:57.38 | Hirsute | A charter will generally run the same raid at about the same time every week, so it let's me go learn. |
| 16:57.45 | Aelobin | is it possible to check if a blizz function has been editted? |
| 16:57.53 | Aelobin | like causing taint |
| 16:58.07 | Hirsute | Gnarfoz: *nod* I've never PuG'd a raid, thankfully. |
| 16:58.07 | Gnarfoz | issecurevariable()? |
| 16:58.18 | Mystical | Here an example of the usage of the functions i define in the object for better understanding: http://nopaste.us.to/1730641d32.html |
| 17:02.12 | foxlit | lua> t = {}; setmetatable(t,t); |
| 17:02.13 | lua_bot | foxlit: No output |
| 17:02.55 | foxlit | lua> t = {}; t.__index=t; setmetatable(t,t); print(t.foo); |
| 17:02.55 | lua_bot | foxlit: luabot:1: loop in gettable |
| 17:04.09 | Mystical | lua_bot: is there a nopaste to your problem? |
| 17:04.10 | lua_bot | Mystical: luabot:1: '=' expected near 'there' |
| 17:04.19 | Mystical | sry ;) |
| 17:05.37 | Mystical | what are you trying to do? cant find the question |
| 17:05.38 | Aelobin | is it possible to monitor security of custom variables with an addon? |
| 17:06.03 | Hirsute-Away | Gnarfoz: Well, I need to qualify that statement. I've never PuGd a level-appropriate raid. I pugged Hyjal a little while ago for kicks and giggles, and Grull and Mags |
| 17:06.18 | alestane | Aelobin: What do you mean? |
| 17:06.46 | Aelobin | well for example if you made an addon create a variable, could you set it as "secure" so that if any other addon editted it, the original addon would know |
| 17:06.49 | Aelobin | kinda like blizzard's taint |
| 17:06.54 | durcyn | Aelobin: copy it on load, overwrite it on close |
| 17:07.05 | AckisWork | Aelobinkinda like blizzard's taint <-- HAHHAHAHAHAHAH |
| 17:07.09 | AckisWork | (I laughed, I'm immature) |
| 17:07.17 | durcyn | ~stab AckisWork |
| 17:07.18 | purl | ACTION runs at AckisWork with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 17:07.31 | Stanzilla | ~AckisWork-- |
| 17:07.32 | Aelobin | :P |
| 17:08.14 | alestane | The issecurevariable() function will, I believe, return the "owner" of the taint on a variable, but I'm not sure if the taint owner changes when the variable was already tainted when it was written. |
| 17:08.26 | Hirsute-Away | You could copy it on load to a local copy, then periodically compare it to the local copy, I believe. That could get a little processor intensive. |
| 17:08.35 | Hirsute-Away | depending on how you implement it. |
| 17:09.00 | AckisWork | ~rlart |
| 17:09.01 | purl | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on Pneumatus |
| 17:09.16 | foxlit | "It [Perl] would prefer that you stayed out of its living room because you weren't invited, not because it has a shotgun." |
| 17:10.17 | Aelobin | Hirsute-Away: ty |
| 17:10.24 | Aelobin | gonna do something like that |
| 17:10.32 | Aelobin | not the checking though |
| 17:11.09 | Hirsute-Away | Ah, you just want any changes to be reverted at logout? |
| 17:11.38 | Hirsute-Away | You don't actually need your addon to *know* that the variable has been changed, it just needs to revert any changes at a particular point? |
| 17:11.41 | Aelobin | nah i want it to load a variable (therefore that variable has to be global) but then i want that global to only be accessible/edittable by the addon |
| 17:11.58 | Aelobin | so i'll load it, make it a local, refer to that local throughout, then save it to global on logout |
| 17:11.58 | foxlit | Honestly, don't bother. |
| 17:12.15 | foxlit | Nobody else is interested in your saved variables, and if they are, you lose by default. |
| 17:12.19 | Hirsute-Away | copy the global to a local, nil the global, use the local and copy it back to global while logging out. Aye |
| 17:12.28 | Aelobin | foxlit: my savedVars are sexeh :P |
| 17:12.39 | Hirsute-Away | One of our addons used to do that, but I think it was pulled out eventually. |
| 17:13.27 | Aelobin | which one? |
| 17:13.43 | AckisWork | any excel guru's here? |
| 17:13.57 | Aelobin | used to be but not used it in ages :P |
| 17:14.42 | AckisWork | I have a formula: =IF(Inclusion!F5="NO",0,Inclusion!H10*SoW!B5) and then one like: =IF(Inclusion!F5="NO",0,Inclusion!H10*SoW!C5) all the way down to AZ |
| 17:14.50 | AckisWork | I need to change all the F5 references to F12 |
| 17:15.39 | Mystical | is there a way to pass on all functions & variables of an existing class to a new one? |
| 17:15.42 | AckisWork | (it's more complicated, but that's the just of it) |
| 17:15.54 | Hirsute-Away | Aelobin: Gatherer |
| 17:16.19 | Mystical | just newClass = oldClass; and then defining further functions for it? |
| 17:16.35 | Pharaunmizz | ackis: can't you change one, then copy all the way down? |
| 17:16.43 | Pharaunmizz | using $F$12 or something |
| 17:16.48 | Hirsute-Away | AckisWork: I haven't done this in a while, but I think if you click in the cell, so you're editing the contents and do a find/replace, it should work. |
| 17:17.13 | alestane | Mystical: In what language? |
| 17:17.19 | Aelobin | what Pharaunmizz said |
| 17:17.20 | Mystical | lua ... ^^ |
| 17:17.33 | Hirsute-Away | If you want to do it over multiple cells, highlighting the ones you want should yield the same effect. |
| 17:17.57 | alestane | Well, if you have a table that defines the class, you can use it as the __index metamethod for the new class object. |
| 17:18.15 | Mystical | ah |
| 17:18.18 | Mystical | okay thanks |
| 17:18.50 | AckisWork | Hirsute-Away: omg ty so much, I didn't know they had find/replace for cell forumla |
| 17:19.15 | Hirsute-Away | AckisWork: No problem, hopefully it works like I remember it working. |
| 17:20.29 | AckisWork | Hirsute-Away: yes it worked perfectly |
| 17:21.49 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=chatzill@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 17:22.00 | Lopeppeppy | has a hateful. Rawr. |
| 17:22.17 | AckisWork | rawrs at Lopeppeppy |
| 17:22.34 | KarlKFI | Rawrs at AckisWork |
| 17:22.51 | Aelobin | cowers. |
| 17:23.19 | KarlKFI | huggles Gryphen |
| 17:23.23 | Gryphen | huggles KarlKFI |
| 17:23.38 | Lopeppeppy | Awwwww. |
| 17:23.53 | KarlKFI | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 17:24.33 | Lopeppeppy | Awwww. :) |
| 17:24.53 | |Jelly| | tickles Peppy .. since she's already been huggled! |
| 17:24.59 | KarlKFI | hateful pvp gear? |
| 17:25.03 | durcyn | gosh, you're such a huggle slut, KarlKFI |
| 17:25.10 | durcyn | p.s. where's mine? |
| 17:25.11 | KarlKFI | ^.^ |
| 17:25.12 | Lopeppeppy | Nu uh, that's totally me, durcyn. |
| 17:25.24 | zenzelezz | KarlKFI: no, she has Hateful Strike |
| 17:25.49 | Lopeppeppy | zenzelezz, no, I have sheeples |
| 17:26.26 | zenzelezz | she has Hateful Strike to use on sheeple |
| 17:27.04 | Lopeppeppy | Oooh, I wish. |
| 17:27.08 | alestane | starts loading a livestock trailer full of wolves. |
| 17:27.32 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:27.39 | Lopeppeppy | Mmmmm, nom nom. |
| 17:27.53 | Hirsute-Away | Protip: I understand it's frustrating to have your thread derailed, but that doesn't mean people are going to overlook it when you get bitchy at the people you're asking for permission to use/distribute/modify their stuff. |
| 17:28.08 | Hirsute-Away | Yep. I should have avoided forums today. |
| 17:28.23 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 17:29.23 | Mystical | alestane: sorry but i still dont seem to get it. like this simplyfied example? http://nopaste.us.to/430ccd2dc3.html |
| 17:29.56 | foxlit | honestly, there's a good *technical* solution to that thread. |
| 17:30.30 | foxlit | Namely add your own addon manager in-game, and have it categorize addons however your heart desires. |
| 17:30.46 | Hirsute-Away | foxlit: Heh. *nod* |
| 17:30.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kirov (n=Kirov@173-10-85-26-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 17:31.06 | foxlit | (Of course, there's the question of whether you're allowed to redistribute anything at all in compilations, but people seem to be leaning on the side of "yes, without asking" there) |
| 17:32.35 | Hirsute-Away | It's funny that it's going to look like I told him "no" about my addons because I think he's a twit, when in all reality, I'd have told him no even if I thought he was the hoopiest frood around. |
| 17:32.47 | Hirsute-Away | Though I still do think he's a twit. |
| 17:33.12 | KarlKFI | twits dont get to distribute your addons? |
| 17:34.31 | Hirsute-Away | KarlKFI: No, but I don't want anyone else distributing *my* addons (not the norganna addons, as those aren't mine, I just work on them), either. In general. |
| 17:34.52 | Hirsute-Away | I'll post my addons on the sites I want to allow to distribute them. |
| 17:34.53 | KarlKFI | didn't read the thread |
| 17:35.05 | Hirsute-Away | KarlKFI: You're probably better off that way. |
| 17:35.17 | KarlKFI | figured as much |
| 17:35.27 | KarlKFI | is afeared of the forums |
| 17:35.32 | Hirsute-Away | Meh |
| 17:35.41 | KarlKFI | rawr |
| 17:35.45 | Hirsute-Away | I visit the WoWI forums occasionally. Today was one of those days. |
| 17:35.47 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 17:35.56 | KarlKFI | huggles Gryphen |
| 17:36.00 | Gryphen | huggles KarlKFI |
| 17:36.02 | Hirsute-Away | It also happens to be a day I feel like looking for twits and picking fights with them. |
| 17:36.36 | KarlKFI | pats the Gryphen bot on the head, "Good bot" |
| 17:36.37 | Lunessa | Let's all go to Spatula City! |
| 17:36.39 | Gryphen | pats the KarlKFI bot on the head, "Good bot" |
| 17:36.55 | Lopeppeppy | We sell spatulas, and that's all. |
| 17:37.04 | KarlKFI | sells Gryphen a spatula |
| 17:37.08 | Gryphen | sells KarlKFI a spatula |
| 17:37.08 | foxlit | No. I demand we go to Gorilla city. |
| 17:37.25 | Lopeppeppy | Um... you go, I'll just watch from orbit. |
| 17:37.48 | KarlKFI | can't we go to The Time Machine instead? |
| 17:37.56 | Lunessa | waits for Foxlit to meet the gorilla who thinks he looks might cute in them jeans. |
| 17:38.03 | foxlit | Because I need a quality, pre-owned gorilla. |
| 17:38.29 | KarlKFI | who doesn't! |
| 17:39.57 | ScytheBlade1 | w |
| 17:39.58 | ScytheBlade1 | t |
| 17:39.58 | ScytheBlade1 | f |
| 17:40.13 | Jamash | wtf is ftw backwards |
| 17:41.43 | Lopeppeppy | I'd never take a pre-owned gorilla, the warrantees are all crap on used models. |
| 17:41.56 | Hirsute-Away | ... "It's not my fault I double posted, the admins told me my other post was gone!" |
| 17:42.19 | Hirsute-Away | If the admins said they deleted your other post, why in the world would you think it was a good idea to start another about the same thing?! |
| 17:42.38 | Lopeppeppy | Sheer asshattery! |
| 17:42.43 | AckisWork | wants a linky |
| 17:44.15 | Hirsute-Away | AckisWork: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24603 |
| 17:45.17 | AckisWork | ugh |
| 17:48.54 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-238-189.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:51.30 | Pharaunmizz | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:51.43 | Pharaunmizz | I could almost cook food on my laptop, that's a bad sign |
| 17:52.03 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, yes it is. |
| 17:52.45 | cogwheel | Pharaunmizz: you could OVERCOOK food on that laptop... |
| 17:56.13 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Pharaunmizz: i'll have scrambled eggs, bacon, and toast, please. |
| 17:57.04 | Lopeppeppy | Now I'm hungry again. Bacon! |
| 17:57.54 | dardack | mmm bacon |
| 18:00.20 | Lopeppeppy | See? |
| 18:05.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 18:05.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn] by ChanServ |
| 18:08.17 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 18:10.09 | |Jelly| | tackles cogwheel! |
| 18:10.30 | cogwheel | *huggle* |
| 18:10.33 | Lopeppeppy | fishes with cogwheel |
| 18:14.01 | *** join/#wowuidev AckisWork (i=8ee5528d@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis) |
| 18:19.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Korenl (n=koren@97-95-35-149.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 18:20.57 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:34.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-071-076-230-073.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 18:35.19 | Lopeppeppy | TTFN, I have a lengthy sheeple shearing to attend. |
| 18:35.27 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 18:38.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 18:40.46 | Lunessa | 2.5 hours of my day flushed down the "Create Domain accounts" crapper. |
| 18:49.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Nitra (n=Nitra@c-0367e255.233-4-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:49.42 | Hirsute | Is it possible to query the threat table of a mob that is not being targetted and engaged by someone in your group? |
| 18:51.04 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 18:52.44 | Hirsute | Or, I'll even look myself if someone can suggest where in the ui code I'd look for UnitThreatSituation |
| 18:53.53 | Hirsute | Ah, there it is. FrameXML/UnitFrame |
| 18:54.40 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213.21.89.60) |
| 18:54.49 | durcyn | grep is fun! |
| 18:55.59 | Hirsute | Or Google with inurl tags |
| 18:56.32 | Hirsute | Bah, except that's just somewhere it's called... |
| 18:56.48 | Hirsute | Time to download it it seems. |
| 18:58.26 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 18:58.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 18:58.34 | alestane | UnitThreatSituation is a C++ API exported into Lua, and not defined anywhere in the FrameXML files. |
| 18:59.48 | Hirsute | alestane: Ah, thanks. |
| 19:00.07 | Hirsute | I'm just trying to find more information about what it will accept for arguments |
| 19:11.25 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 19:11.44 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213.21.89.60) |
| 19:12.35 | *** join/#wowuidev terkitoss (n=Eustaqui@220.pool85-54-246.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 19:16.32 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@123.255.41.172) |
| 19:22.52 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 19:24.44 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:24.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:29.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute-Away (n=Rupert@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute) |
| 19:37.14 | Tem|work | sadface |
| 19:37.29 | Tem|work | I'm getting some issues with my new video card |
| 19:37.33 | AckisWork | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/funny-pictures-your-laptop-has-a-new-password1.jpg |
| 19:37.34 | AckisWork | eeek |
| 19:38.13 | Tem|work | when I boot up, I get to the login screen |
| 19:38.16 | Tem|work | log in |
| 19:38.16 | AckisWork | and for lulz http://www.wow.com/2009/06/10/guildwatch-hes-really-really-sorry/ |
| 19:38.44 | Tem|work | and as soon as vista starts trying to turn on it's pretty effects, I get a blank screen |
| 19:39.08 | Tem|work | (it's blank, but not black. I think it's my desktop color) |
| 19:46.30 | Tem|work | I also hear a click in my case |
| 19:46.35 | Tem|work | like something turning off |
| 19:46.48 | Tem|work | I'm assuming it's the GPU killing itself |
| 19:46.58 | Tem|work | but I'm sort of at a loss on how to diagnose the problem |
| 19:47.49 | zenzelezz | try some linux live CD to see if it can enter X? |
| 19:47.53 | Tem|work | EVGA's site was unhelpful |
| 19:48.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:48.33 | Tem|work | also, it worked fine last night |
| 19:48.46 | Tem|work | so I'm just kind of blarg |
| 19:52.55 | Hirsute | Really stupid question: Where do I find information about posting my addon to WoWI? |
| 19:53.27 | Hirsute | nevermind, found it. |
| 19:57.58 | Thunder_Child | ~blorb |
| 19:57.59 | purl | ACTION blorbs |
| 19:59.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (n=Dune@208-104-142-238.rhhe1.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 19:59.38 | Hirsute | wtb way to commit changes to two svn repositories for the same project at once |
| 20:00.08 | theorbtwo | Hirsute: Why do you have two svn repos for the same project? |
| 20:00.13 | theorbtwo | That's just asking for pain. |
| 20:00.31 | Hirsute | theorbtwo: One on curse and one on WoWI |
| 20:01.06 | ckknight | Hirsute: we have an svn sync thing on curseforge |
| 20:01.11 | ckknight | so you can point it at the wowi one |
| 20:01.17 | ckknight | and it'll run svnsync for you |
| 20:01.25 | Hirsute | ckknight: Interesting. I'll look into it! |
| 20:01.32 | Hirsute | Thanks! |
| 20:01.34 | ckknight | alternatively, use a modern repo system like hg or git |
| 20:01.42 | ckknight | git push --all |
| 20:01.47 | theorbtwo | Declare one to be cannonical, and either sync the other from it, or just delete the other one, except for a README that says to use the cannonical one instead. |
| 20:02.03 | Torhal | ckknight: WoWI's git repo support is coming "Soon". |
| 20:02.15 | ckknight | I see |
| 20:02.23 | ckknight | ' |
| 20:02.45 | Hirsute | ckknight: But I'm so very comfortable not having to learn something new right now! ;) |
| 20:02.55 | ckknight | bbl |
| 20:03.04 | Hirsute | Is there a git version of Tortoise for Windows? |
| 20:03.13 | ckknight | TortoiseGit |
| 20:03.31 | Hirsute | Looking it up now |
| 20:03.59 | Mystical | is it possible to change the meta table of a frame without loosing its member functions? |
| 20:04.15 | Hirsute | Now to see if they'll coexist peacefully. |
| 20:04.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (i=d1d8bcf7@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 20:04.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 20:04.50 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) |
| 20:05.19 | *** join/#wowuidev TecnoBrat (n=tecnobra@tecnobrat.com) |
| 20:05.54 | alestane | Mystical: Don't mess with the metatable of an actual frame, unless you're 100% positive the frame is unprotected or will NEVER be modified during combat. |
| 20:06.13 | Shirik|Ghost | still shouldn't mess with it :P |
| 20:06.44 | Mystical | okay ^^ |
| 20:07.43 | AckisWork | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/9446405683-additional-instances-cannot-be-launched.html |
| 20:07.45 | AckisWork | :( |
| 20:09.48 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 20:10.55 | Shirik|Ghost | GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE |
| 20:11.14 | Torhal | AckisWork: I told you it was due to people overrunning the instance server :) |
| 20:11.25 | Zyndrome | falls out of his chair |
| 20:11.26 | Fisker- | hey Shirik |
| 20:11.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Aiiane (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu) |
| 20:12.00 | Vonhinten | Ackis, yeah... same old line |
| 20:12.39 | AckisWork | I just can't play the game because of it :( maybe the changes to the bc chests will alleviate it? |
| 20:12.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (i=proditor@c80-217-104-100.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 20:12.59 | nicoli_s | arkenstone = you ackis? |
| 20:13.07 | AckisWork | no |
| 20:13.11 | AckisWork | ackis == ackis |
| 20:13.26 | End | ackistone |
| 20:13.38 | Vonhinten | What's the story with BC chests? They couldn't have been very good money |
| 20:13.50 | AckisWork | some exploit |
| 20:14.06 | durcyn | it's scholomance all over again, teleporting chinese farmers |
| 20:14.37 | ScytheBlade1 | They were removed and replaced with rare spawns |
| 20:14.41 | AckisWork | You have received a case of Blue Battle Fuel. |
| 20:14.58 | Esamynn | changes to bc chests, hmm, what? |
| 20:15.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Random world spawn chests, like you would find throughout the old world |
| 20:15.19 | AckisWork | all BC chests in instances have been removed |
| 20:15.38 | Esamynn | O Rly? |
| 20:15.46 | AckisWork | ya rly |
| 20:16.15 | Esamynn | some exploit huh? |
| 20:17.12 | Vonhinten | There was a period of time where rogues were heavily farming mech and other instances for chests... I don't understand why we're running into this problem now, and not then |
| 20:17.51 | Esamynn | oh, so this isn't a recent thing |
| 20:18.31 | Vonhinten | dunno.. might be something new... farming BC chests back in the day wasn't very good gold/hr |
| 20:18.31 | AckisWork | no it was recent |
| 20:18.32 | Hirsute | BC chest? Forgive the stupid question: BC stands for what? |
| 20:18.33 | AckisWork | aka yesterday |
| 20:18.40 | AckisWork | BC = burning crusade |
| 20:18.45 | Hirsute | ... |
| 20:18.46 | Hirsute | dur |
| 20:18.48 | Hirsute | Silly me |
| 20:18.52 | AckisWork | the mech chest was modified but this new one modifies all chests |
| 20:18.58 | nicoli_s | burnt cookies |
| 20:19.48 | Hirsute | ... Bah. I need a preview screenie to upload my addon to WoWI.... I guess this will wait. |
| 20:20.12 | AckisWork | use a placeholder |
| 20:20.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Hirsute: feel free to use http://s.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw6457.png |
| 20:20.43 | ScytheBlade1 | (It's mine) |
| 20:20.43 | Vonhinten | Open Paint, text tool, type: Ackis loves the cock. save, upload |
| 20:20.57 | Hirsute | Fair enough. |
| 20:21.17 | Esamynn | I wonder, I bet saved raid instances count towards the limit, and I bet there are a LOT more of those hanging around than ever before |
| 20:21.47 | Tem|work | oh wow fail |
| 20:21.48 | ScytheBlade1 | No, only "active" raid instances |
| 20:21.51 | Vonhinten | I would expect those to be cached, not memory resident |
| 20:21.53 | Tem|work | I know what my video card problem is |
| 20:22.01 | ScytheBlade1 | For example, performing a soft reset of a raid instance removes it from the list |
| 20:22.02 | Esamynn | ScytheBlade1: was just gonna say that, yah, I was being silly |
| 20:22.04 | ScytheBlade1 | But keeps details around |
| 20:22.05 | ScytheBlade1 | yeha |
| 20:22.12 | ScytheBlade1 | *yeah |
| 20:22.48 | Vonhinten | Hey Tem, how your raid attendance lately? |
| 20:22.48 | Fisker- | http://www.wow.com/2009/06/10/the-truth-about-authenticators/ <-i want to habeeb |
| 20:23.48 | durcyn | why are you reading wow.cmo |
| 20:23.57 | durcyn | com even, it's such drek |
| 20:25.10 | Tem|work | Vonhinten: my personal attendance is like 95% |
| 20:25.17 | Vonhinten | no, the guild |
| 20:25.21 | Tem|work | our overall attendance as a guild is HORRIBLE |
| 20:25.24 | Tem|work | H |
| 20:25.25 | Tem|work | O |
| 20:25.26 | Tem|work | R |
| 20:25.26 | Tem|work | I |
| 20:25.28 | Tem|work | B |
| 20:25.29 | Tem|work | L |
| 20:25.29 | Tem|work | E |
| 20:25.32 | terkitoss | S |
| 20:25.33 | Vonhinten | lol, so you're in the same boat then... |
| 20:25.42 | Vonhinten | I'm about to call our raids for the summer |
| 20:25.51 | Tem|work | We haven't been able to run a 25man since last wednesday |
| 20:26.04 | Tem|work | If we don't run one again tonight, we're in serious trouble |
| 20:26.42 | Tem|work | So anyhow, my video card problem is my PSU is too weak |
| 20:26.52 | Esamynn | ouch |
| 20:27.00 | NeoTron | Seems more than one guild is ahving issues |
| 20:27.01 | Tem|work | I thought I had bought an 800w one when I got the computer |
| 20:27.05 | Tem|work | but it's only 450 |
| 20:27.09 | Esamynn | erk |
| 20:27.10 | NeoTron | people are getting tired of WoW it seems |
| 20:27.12 | Tem|work | the card requires 500 |
| 20:27.13 | Vonhinten | ouch, yeah, that won't cut it |
| 20:27.37 | Vonhinten | probably want to step up to 600 or 700 |
| 20:27.37 | alestane | High summer and midwinter are always tough times for raiding guilds in my experience. |
| 20:27.57 | Tem|work | we've been having problems since ulduar release, though |
| 20:28.01 | Esamynn | our attendance has gone up since school ended |
| 20:28.03 | Vonhinten | yeah, same with us |
| 20:28.04 | Tem|work | it's just gotten much worse lately |
| 20:28.21 | Tem|work | I can count on one hand the number of times we've raided with a full 25 |
| 20:28.21 | Esamynn | our main problem is we are sometimes a little low on healers |
| 20:28.24 | Tem|work | since ulduar |
| 20:28.34 | Esamynn | :( |
| 20:28.43 | Tem|work | Vonhinten: what guild are you in again? |
| 20:28.45 | Vonhinten | I even gave my guild 2 weeks off pre-ulduar to get their shit together, but I don't think it's enough |
| 20:28.49 | Vonhinten | Tem, Dragon Bane |
| 20:28.54 | Tem|work | I know you told me a while back, but.. thanks |
| 20:29.05 | Tem|work | how are you guys doing progression wise? |
| 20:29.46 | Vonhinten | As a 25man, horrible, everything up to Hodir. As a 10man, we've tried Yogg, but we're having trouble getting people together for a 2nd night |
| 20:29.50 | NeoTron | alestane: out attendance issues is more due to people quitting wow |
| 20:30.18 | Vonhinten | We have too many casual players, with no DPS... there are nights I'm doing 12% of raid damage |
| 20:30.19 | NeoTron | we're losing long term, high skill key players to that |
| 20:30.39 | Esamynn | Vonhinten: I feel your pain, we have that problem too |
| 20:31.14 | Esamynn | and gear really doesn't solve that problem |
| 20:31.19 | Vonhinten | nope |
| 20:31.25 | Vonhinten | We've had big drama recently about it |
| 20:31.38 | Tem|work | Vonhinten: then I know what your solution is |
| 20:31.45 | Tem|work | take your good players and run |
| 20:31.47 | Tem|work | ... to us |
| 20:31.51 | Esamynn | lol |
| 20:32.01 | Tem|work | we could take on probably about 10 people |
| 20:32.03 | Vonhinten | Tem, I've thought about it seriously |
| 20:32.06 | Esamynn | you on the same server? |
| 20:32.09 | Tem|work | aye |
| 20:32.12 | Esamynn | which? |
| 20:32.16 | Tem|work | we need a tank, some healers, and lots of good dps |
| 20:32.17 | Tem|work | Garona |
| 20:32.38 | Esamynn | I swear, I *never* run into anyone else who plays on Dragonblight |
| 20:32.43 | Tem|work | I'm actually and officer now so consider this an "official" PLEASE APPLY |
| 20:33.23 | Vonhinten | Our problem is that we're a family guild (and I'm one of the oldest officers), leaving is a tough proposition |
| 20:33.34 | Tem|work | yeah I understand |
| 20:33.41 | Tem|work | I had that problem in BC |
| 20:33.47 | Tem|work | in fact, my mage is still GM of that guild |
| 20:33.52 | Tem|work | I refuse to let her leave it |
| 20:35.34 | Tem|work | I refused to leave when the guild broke up at the start of BC |
| 20:35.57 | Tem|work | and ended up getting GM because the GM quit the game and I wanted to buy the bank tabs |
| 20:36.42 | Vonhinten | If you want to think about a coordinated effort, I could probably get our 10 better players to tag along... I don't think any of us really care about gear so much as having a good raid. Otherwise, I'm still thinking about jumping ship.. it's just hard |
| 20:37.24 | Tem|work | To take 10 people, we'd have to sit some of our people |
| 20:37.47 | Tem|work | basically, We need some depth to the roster |
| 20:37.51 | Tem|work | and we need to replace some dps |
| 20:38.01 | Vonhinten | I hear ya |
| 20:39.07 | Tem|work | but we've recruiting anything that moves right now |
| 20:39.12 | Tem|work | (out of fire) |
| 20:39.23 | Lunessa | is still spinning his wheels trying to get ANY raiding to happen. |
| 20:39.23 | Tem|work | (or into the good kind, you know how it is...) |
| 20:39.29 | End | but fire is candy! |
| 20:39.40 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp121-45-35-130.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 20:39.47 | Tem|work | Vonhinten: well uh |
| 20:39.47 | Vonhinten | what kills me, is I have an alt mage that does more dps than 80% of our DPS, and my 19hours played feral druid does more dps than 50% of the raid |
| 20:39.49 | cogwheel | sorry Lunessa :'( |
| 20:39.51 | Tem|work | are you saved? |
| 20:40.00 | Tem|work | (to ulduar 25) |
| 20:40.01 | Lunessa | Not your fault cog. |
| 20:40.12 | Tem|work | hey Lunessa |
| 20:40.16 | Vonhinten | oh my mage or rogue? |
| 20:40.22 | Lunessa | Hiya Tem. |
| 20:40.23 | Tem|work | remember how I wanted you to transfer to my server? |
| 20:40.27 | Tem|work | I still do |
| 20:40.30 | Lunessa | Yeah. :P |
| 20:40.37 | End | Lunessa: it's a trap |
| 20:40.53 | Lunessa | End. You need a fish-face when you say that. |
| 20:41.25 | Tem|work | Vonhinten: this is me trying to make you join us tonight |
| 20:41.40 | Tem|work | we didn't do a 25 last night so our ulduar is fresh |
| 20:42.24 | Tem|work | and we'll be damned if we don't do a 25 tonight |
| 20:42.30 | Lunessa | I've had time to level 4 toons to 80, on from 1-60, and 3 others to 60 while chivvying people together to raid. Gotten 3-4 good nights out of it. Something tells me I'm "doin it wrong." |
| 20:42.57 | Tem|work | So, people with more knowledge than me: I have an underpowered video card. How can I continue to run it this way without seriously damaging it until I get a new PSU? |
| 20:43.00 | Vonhinten | I've got a 10man Uld cleanup tonight from 7-10 server, unfortunately |
| 20:43.07 | Tem|work | *glare* |
| 20:43.10 | ScytheBlade1 | You can't |
| 20:43.24 | ScytheBlade1 | You could massively underclock it, but that's no guarantee |
| 20:43.31 | Vonhinten | If I bailed on that, it'd make more than a few people hate my guts =P |
| 20:43.35 | ScytheBlade1 | (And actually could induce more instability) |
| 20:43.38 | Bibi` | try spinning the fans with your fingers |
| 20:43.40 | Bibi` | it might help |
| 20:43.48 | Tem|work | so like, opening up the case for ventilation and unplugging a fan wouldn't help? |
| 20:43.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (n=Cralor`@c-98-216-219-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:44.04 | Lunessa | Tem|work: Only if you want to fry the fing thing |
| 20:44.10 | Tem|work | the card HAS RUN like this for a couple days |
| 20:44.19 | Tem|work | but it's protested a little... |
| 20:44.23 | Vonhinten | it'll run, until it start working hard, then it'll shit the bed |
| 20:44.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Compare a fan to a video card in terms of usage - it is something like comparing a skyscraper to an ant :P |
| 20:44.33 | ScytheBlade1 | /usage/power consumption/ |
| 20:44.37 | ScytheBlade1 | s/usage/power consumption/ |
| 20:44.38 | ScytheBlade1 | =[ |
| 20:44.42 | ScytheBlade1 | =[ =[ |
| 20:44.50 | Tem|work | yeah I know |
| 20:44.54 | Fisker- | hey ScytheBlade1 |
| 20:44.55 | Tem|work | but I'm grasping at straws here |
| 20:45.08 | ScytheBlade1 | New PSU |
| 20:45.20 | ScytheBlade1 | In the mean time, don't do anything that uses the 3D accel |
| 20:45.48 | ScytheBlade1 | (Which kicks the REALLY power hungry components into gear) |
| 20:46.45 | Lunessa | As in, no WoW. |
| 20:47.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Or Vista Aero |
| 20:47.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Or most of anything other than web browsing |
| 20:47.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Even then, flash can start your GPU up |
| 20:48.22 | ScytheBlade1 | oh, right |
| 20:48.38 | ScytheBlade1 | display properties, adjust the hardware acceleration slider to the bare minimum |
| 20:48.46 | ScytheBlade1 | That should hard disable anything that really uses it |
| 20:50.21 | AckisWork | Stanzilla: you're holy priest right? |
| 20:50.34 | AckisWork | ever got suckered into going shadow? |
| 20:52.03 | Tem|work | ScytheBlade1: I crash right now if I try to start up windows with Aero enabled |
| 20:52.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Safe mode? |
| 20:52.23 | Tem|work | safe mode works |
| 20:52.23 | ScytheBlade1 | That disables all hardware accel |
| 20:52.27 | Tem|work | and I can turn off aero |
| 20:52.38 | ScytheBlade1 | From there you can kill aero dead, reboot, and then turn off all hardware accel for good |
| 20:52.41 | AckisWork | I need a sugestion on a dottimer |
| 20:52.42 | cogwheel | switch to VGA drivers? |
| 20:52.49 | Tem|work | I guess I'm just gonna put my old card back in until I get a new PSU |
| 20:54.44 | Cralor` | what video card did you just get? |
| 20:55.01 | Tem|work | GTX 260 |
| 20:55.14 | Tem|work | old card is a 7600 GS |
| 20:55.16 | Cralor` | whats watt of your curent PS |
| 20:55.16 | ScytheBlade1 | heh, same card as me |
| 20:55.24 | Tem|work | current PSU is only 450 |
| 20:55.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Current PSU probably lacks the needed power pinouts, I'd wager? |
| 20:56.00 | Cralor` | maybe too low volt on the rail |
| 20:56.26 | Cralor` | if i may suggest a video card, get a Corsair one |
| 20:56.30 | Cralor` | i mean PSU |
| 20:56.59 | Tem|work | video card claims it needs 500 watts |
| 20:57.08 | mikma | over 500???? |
| 20:57.20 | Tem|work | and I wanna say 36V +12 rail or something to that effect |
| 20:57.29 | foxlit | Video cards claim *your system* needs 500 watts |
| 20:57.35 | Tem|work | right |
| 20:57.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Two +12v rails here |
| 20:57.41 | foxlit | Their actual power usages are somewhere in the hundreds. |
| 20:58.15 | ScytheBlade1 | (+ the power over the PCIe channel) |
| 20:58.17 | Tem|work | (I don't know what the +12 or whatever means in this case because I quit EE after half of circuits 2 and went back to programming) |
| 20:58.58 | Cralor` | i just know that is the video card output slots :) |
| 20:59.21 | Cralor` | Tem, would you like single or multiple rail better |
| 20:59.49 | Esamynn | I really wish it was easier to find out what the power usage of each specific component was :/ |
| 21:00.04 | Cralor` | Would be nice |
| 21:00.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Tem|work: I've got http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002 |
| 21:00.54 | Cralor` | sb1: nice choice :) i got the 650w single rail |
| 21:00.56 | Esamynn | I have this overpowered monster of a PSU =D |
| 21:01.12 | Esamynn | for my over-powered monster box =D |
| 21:01.47 | Cralor` | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005 |
| 21:02.53 | Tem|work | ScytheBlade1: that's beyond my budget atm |
| 21:02.55 | Tem|work | :( |
| 21:03.48 | Tem|work | http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009333 is more in rage |
| 21:03.50 | Tem|work | range |
| 21:03.54 | Tem|work | but I wish that was MIR |
| 21:04.03 | Tem|work | wan't |
| 21:04.08 | Tem|work | wasn't** |
| 21:07.03 | Adys | that was FAN-TASTIC |
| 21:07.12 | Esamynn | hmm? |
| 21:07.44 | Adys | I installed WoW 1.1.2 (release 2005 enGB) around 4pm |
| 21:08.03 | Adys | I logged in to get a patch to bring me to TBC automatically downloaded |
| 21:08.23 | Adys | automatically patched, and a launcher to start up to do exactly the same for WotLK |
| 21:08.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Erm, you know that the site has a downloader that just installs Wrath, no need to install TBC/vanilla? |
| 21:08.47 | ScytheBlade1 | You also know that your Wrath disc does the same thing? |
| 21:09.07 | Esamynn | the wrath disk is a full install? |
| 21:09.08 | Adys | which then downloaded patch 3.0.3 without me doing ANYTHING |
| 21:09.11 | Esamynn | did not know that |
| 21:09.11 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 21:09.15 | ScytheBlade1 | It sure is |
| 21:09.18 | Adys | which then downloaded 3.0.8, and 3.0.9 |
| 21:09.21 | ScytheBlade1 | (Which is why they went to DVD, I'm sure) |
| 21:09.35 | Adys | which then downloaded 3.1 (again, I'm not giving any kind of input) |
| 21:10.04 | Adys | I started up with a 1.1.2 enGB client 8 hours ago |
| 21:10.12 | Adys | and I now have a fully up-to-date wotlk client |
| 21:10.14 | Adys | deDE. |
| 21:10.14 | Esamynn | 1.1.2 or 1.12? |
| 21:10.20 | Adys | 1.1.2 |
| 21:10.42 | Adys | Im still trying to figure out how it switched to german some time today |
| 21:10.43 | Hirsute | So someone just starting out would only need to purchase the Wrath disk? Not Vanilla+BC+Wrath? |
| 21:10.52 | Adys | Hirsute: no |
| 21:10.53 | cogwheel | Hirsute: no |
| 21:10.56 | Adys | theyd need tbc |
| 21:11.00 | Esamynn | Hirsute: need codes for their account |
| 21:11.04 | cogwheel | you have to have keys |
| 21:11.16 | Adys | but you only need wrath disk yeah |
| 21:11.18 | Hirsute | Can those not be purchased via account management? |
| 21:11.20 | Esamynn | just to just install the client, that is correct, if I understand |
| 21:11.31 | Hirsute | (shows how often I visit my account management page) |
| 21:11.38 | Adys | they can |
| 21:11.45 | Esamynn | bliz store, but same diff |
| 21:11.53 | Hirsute | *nod* |
| 21:12.15 | kd3 | ugh. I hate working outside this time of year |
| 21:12.41 | kd3 | >80F, >90% humidity |
| 21:14.10 | Adys | kd3: want my country? |
| 21:15.07 | kneeki | where were the olympics in china held? |
| 21:15.08 | Adys | also 80F is 27C |
| 21:15.16 | Adys | which is COLD. |
| 21:15.31 | Adys | here it's 35C and 90% dust |
| 21:15.33 | Cralor` | Beijing |
| 21:15.39 | kneeki | Ah |
| 21:15.53 | *** join/#wowuidev ComicSansMS (n=nospam@p5B0DDCD1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:16.03 | *** part/#wowuidev ComicSansMS (n=nospam@p5B0DDCD1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:16.17 | Hirsute | bwahahaha: http://notalwaysright.com/the-devil-is-in-the-ridiculous-details/2068 |
| 21:16.38 | kneeki | Cralor`: Any idea where in Bejing? i'm trying to find it on google maps |
| 21:17.50 | Cralor` | not really |
| 21:17.52 | zenzelezz | kneeki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Summer_Olympics_venues ? |
| 21:18.06 | Hirsute | Or this one is also win: http://notalwaysright.com/fudge-in-flight/2066 |
| 21:18.45 | Cralor` | kneeki: i found some of it actually |
| 21:18.52 | kneeki | ahh |
| 21:18.53 | kneeki | i found it |
| 21:18.55 | kneeki | lol |
| 21:18.57 | Thunder_Child | kneeki, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=olympics,+beijing&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=90.681271,228.515625&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=39.996948,116.392765&spn=0.022685,0.05579&t=h&z=15&iwloc=C |
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| 21:24.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 21:27.35 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202164112.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 21:27.37 | Vonhinten | lol http://notalwaysright.com/well-played-indeed/624 |
| 21:31.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyndrome (n=faggotry@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 21:33.30 | AckisWork | http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbhZZGxfVRfzcfqfzAo:qihVzc <-- good for shadowpriests? |
| 21:36.39 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim6270 (n=p3lim@084202164112.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 21:46.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 21:48.37 | mikma | http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/10/2594258.htm?section=entertainment |
| 21:51.45 | Thunder_Child | AckisWork, pvp/pve? |
| 21:52.04 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/06/like_this_how_to_make_tetris_n.php |
| 21:52.39 | AckisWork | Thunder_Child: pve raiding |
| 21:52.52 | Thunder_Child | AckisWork, are you expecting to not do a lot of dmg then? |
| 21:53.03 | p3lim6270 | can break have "arugments" like return? |
| 21:53.16 | AckisWork | Thunder_Child: I was about 2k dps last night |
| 21:53.17 | p3lim6270 | like return x, y |
| 21:53.21 | p3lim6270 | break x, y |
| 21:53.35 | AckisWork | Thunder_Child: I need to improve w/o getting gear :P |
| 21:53.47 | AckisWork | was told 5 minutes before raid "you're going to be shadow on xt hard mode" |
| 21:53.48 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 21:53.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=EAndre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 21:53.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:54.02 | AckisWork | apparently I'm going to be shadow tonight on some other hard mode |
| 21:54.16 | mikma | http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=47367&langId=-1 |
| 21:54.41 | Thunder_Child | AckisWork, this is what i raid with http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Cenarius&cn=Shadyhealer&gn=Wasted+Space |
| 21:55.13 | Thunder_Child | well http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=5&tal=0503203030300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005323051203010323150301351 this i guess |
| 21:55.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-68-57-187-183.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 21:56.35 | AckisWork | yah threat isn't an issue for me yet |
| 21:57.42 | Thunder_Child | neither is it for me but there is nothing else to take that increases dps |
| 21:58.05 | AckisWork | imp shadow form helps w/ knockback |
| 21:58.15 | Thunder_Child | of which there is maybe 2 |
| 21:58.37 | Thunder_Child | only aoe affects you and few dont have some kind of silence with them |
| 21:58.46 | Thunder_Child | in ulduar that is |
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| 21:59.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:00.49 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/06/new_monkey_island_game_coming.php |
| 22:01.53 | Lopeppeppy | Used gorilla farm? |
| 22:02.10 | foxlit | grumble, TreeSet. |
| 22:02.20 | foxlit | iterating over you backwards is a load of hurt :( |
| 22:02.25 | Thunder_Child | yup mikma, looking forward to that |
| 22:04.45 | foxlit | [complaint addressed at wrong class. qq!] |
| 22:13.10 | Fisker- | gaaaaaaaaaaaaay |
| 22:13.13 | Fisker- | gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay |
| 22:13.17 | Fisker- | ~wowalert |
| 22:13.18 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 22:13.25 | Fisker- | http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert <-gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay |
| 22:14.02 | kd3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:14.17 | Fisker- | pointlessly lame |
| 22:14.34 | Fisker- | "oh nos EU has access to a promotional item" |
| 22:14.38 | Fisker- | STOP THE PRESSES |
| 22:14.59 | NeoTron | exploiters! |
| 22:16.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Korenl (n=koren@97-95-35-149.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 22:18.50 | foxlit | "It's a trap!" |
| 22:21.36 | BlackNet | any type of in game relay via irc for wow by chance? |
| 22:21.53 | NightHawkTheSan1 | no |
| 22:22.16 | kd3 | and also explicitly not possible |
| 22:23.14 | Thunder_Child | overlay is the only way as of now |
| 22:23.20 | BlackNet | sure it's possible |
| 22:23.35 | ScytheBlade1 | not with anything that WoW provides |
| 22:23.37 | NightHawkTheSan1 | its only possible by means that violate the ToU |
| 22:23.40 | kd3 | if you can pull it off I'm sure the hacks team would love to hear about it |
| 22:23.42 | BlackNet | have a tcp stack to use right? |
| 22:23.42 | ScytheBlade1 | If you want to change that, you get to rewrite WoW's binary or memory |
| 22:25.24 | BlackNet | reason im asking is some ppl were telling me earlier the in game irc relay we have going in vendetta online was a bad thing and all |
| 22:25.50 | alestane | That would depend on the other game. |
| 22:25.55 | BlackNet | figured i would check see if anything like that was in wow |
| 22:25.58 | alestane | And its ToU, etc. |
| 22:25.58 | ScytheBlade1 | WoW was designed from the ground up to have no real time access with anything other than the WoW servers |
| 22:25.59 | kd3 | vendetta != wow |
| 22:26.10 | BlackNet | i am all to aware of that kd3 |
| 22:26.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Changing that is a violation of the terms you agreed to, and will likely get your account closed in quick order |
| 22:26.48 | ScytheBlade1 | (Specific to WoW) |
| 22:26.50 | Zyndrome | maybe something like this then : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjuY-ThwP0M&fmt=18 |
| 22:26.52 | Zyndrome | an overlay |
| 22:27.06 | Codayus | Anarchy Online has supported various forms if in-game chat to external chat/IRC stuff forever. It works fine. WoW has chosen to do things differently, but not for strictly technical reasons. |
| 22:27.22 | BlackNet | so what type of tcp structure does wow have for plugins? |
| 22:27.26 | kd3 | none |
| 22:27.28 | ScytheBlade1 | none |
| 22:27.35 | BlackNet | none? |
| 22:27.36 | ScytheBlade1 | None. |
| 22:27.38 | kd3 | all wow plugins are run locally by the game client itself |
| 22:27.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Inside of WoW's sandbox, which has clearly defined walls |
| 22:27.57 | alestane | Blizzard wanted strict control over the network traffic associated with their game. |
| 22:28.11 | BlackNet | how about i/o |
| 22:28.14 | ScytheBlade1 | None |
| 22:28.15 | kd3 | none |
| 22:28.26 | BlackNet | so no file i/o support either? |
| 22:28.28 | NightHawkTheSan1 | addons have zero access to anything outside wow. period. |
| 22:28.34 | kd3 | ^ |
| 22:28.43 | ScytheBlade1 | The most you can do is write text strings to disk every time you log out |
| 22:28.48 | ScytheBlade1 | (Or reload your UI) |
| 22:28.54 | BlackNet | so there is i/o support |
| 22:28.58 | kd3 | yup |
| 22:29.08 | kd3 | but not in any kind of real-time sense for what you're trying to do |
| 22:29.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Not in the low level I/O sense either |
| 22:29.33 | BlackNet | i/o would be file/disk access among other things. |
| 22:29.35 | ScytheBlade1 | You can more or less write lua variables to disk, and read them back |
| 22:29.39 | ScytheBlade1 | No, none |
| 22:29.55 | NightHawkTheSan1 | "addons have zero access to anything outside wow. period." |
| 22:30.13 | ScytheBlade1 | That is handled by WoW, and is something addon authors cannot manage on their own |
| 22:30.15 | Codayus | Basically, you can save data structures and variables to disk, but they're read when the game starts, written when the game ends. You don't get any control beyond that. |
| 22:30.37 | BlackNet | Codayus that's what i was asking about |
| 22:31.16 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Saving_variables_between_game_sessions |
| 22:31.24 | ScytheBlade1 | What are you trying to do? |
| 22:31.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Let's put it that way |
| 22:31.26 | Codayus | So you might run an external script to scrape DKP from a website, write it to a lua file, start WoW, an addon reads it, and displays it in game. Then the addon saves new bosses killed while you raid, and writes it out when you quit WoW. You run a script which reads the lua file, and uploads it to a website. |
| 22:31.26 | kd3 | that's the only outside access variables have |
| 22:31.49 | Codayus | That is, basically, the most communication you'll ever get. |
| 22:32.01 | BlackNet | ScytheBlade1 right now just looking to see what is supported/possible and what is not |
| 22:32.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Fair enough |
| 22:32.39 | ScytheBlade1 | If there was something specific you had in mind, we could tell you very quickly if it was possible (without breaking the rules, that is) |
| 22:33.20 | ScytheBlade1 | But as far as an addon author is concerned, there is no disk i/o nor network i/o in the traditional sense - but instead, saved state and limited communication with other players |
| 22:33.28 | BlackNet | ok the guild i am in vendetta we have this uber app i wrote. it shares data between guild members and it's pushed to a mysql db so users can pull any of the data they want anytime while in game. |
| 22:33.52 | alestane | Yeah, can't do things like that in-game in WoW. |
| 22:33.56 | BlackNet | am also curious about the plugin managers to |
| 22:34.13 | KarlKFI | plugin managers? |
| 22:34.25 | BlackNet | like curse.com for example. |
| 22:34.42 | Codayus | In WoW, you might have a database of mineral nodes, which are synced within a guild. There's NO independent data store though - all data is stored in each client. |
| 22:34.47 | nicoli_s | you mean like the curse client blacknet? |
| 22:34.50 | BlackNet | wowinterface.com and the like. there's about 1/2 dozen or so of them |
| 22:34.51 | BlackNet | yea |
| 22:35.01 | foxlit | Curse has a blacknet? |
| 22:35.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Half dozen maybe, but only two or three really worth using |
| 22:35.11 | foxlit | Those ninjas :( |
| 22:35.19 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 22:35.24 | nicoli_s | well i'd throw my opinion in the ring but im a little biased :P |
| 22:35.41 | BlackNet | yea dont mean to start flame wars over stuff |
| 22:36.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I meant just distribution sites, not primary points of contact for development |
| 22:36.17 | NightHawkTheSan1 | most people here aren't the kind that would start a flame war over that, i suspect nicoli_s meant that he works for curse |
| 22:36.20 | NightHawkTheSan1 | so he's obviously biased ;) |
| 22:36.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20653.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:36.37 | nicoli_s | indeed i is |
| 22:36.40 | tekkub | that and he's a total dick |
| 22:36.41 | Codayus | (If your comparing games, it's worth stressing that the limitation in WoW have been implemented by Bliz to support their policy goals - restricting botting, stuff like that. It's not a security or technical issue per se, and plenty of games have opted to solve the botting problem differently.) |
| 22:36.43 | tekkub | *hides* |
| 22:36.45 | nicoli_s | ouch tekkub |
| 22:36.54 | tekkub | ouch? |
| 22:36.58 | NightHawkTheSan1 | well, from tekkub, that's a compliment |
| 22:37.01 | nicoli_s | for calling me a total dick |
| 22:37.02 | BlackNet | i got one of the vendetta dev's to write us a set of functions, to load/save data to the local disk. it spickles tables and you just dump a table into it. |
| 22:37.02 | ScytheBlade1 | hahahahaha |
| 22:37.04 | tekkub | you should know that's a compliment from me |
| 22:37.09 | Kraps | wat http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/17730203925-spriests-are-penalized-for-fair-dps.html |
| 22:37.17 | nicoli_s | while i may have been a dick in my past internet life, not here at curse |
| 22:38.09 | ScytheBlade1 | BlackNet: you can have a persistent store of lua variables on any client |
| 22:38.15 | Thunder_Child | you arent doing your job then |
| 22:38.18 | BlackNet | hmm botting. yea i can see a great need for many things in game. |
| 22:38.29 | BlackNet | am all for cutting down on rmi's and the like. |
| 22:38.31 | ScytheBlade1 | (Which is saved to disk) |
| 22:39.03 | BlackNet | does wow use iup by chance? |
| 22:39.24 | airtonix | googles iup |
| 22:39.25 | alestane | Since I've never heard of it, probably not. |
| 22:39.28 | Codayus | Anarchy Online, on the other hand, saw nothing wrong with people running in-game chat bots, DKP tracking bots, info bots, etc. So, for example, there was an info-bot you could whisper to ask where a quest giver was, and so forth - all completely player run, although the devs liked it enough they advertised it. |
| 22:39.49 | airtonix | http://code.google.com/p/iupp/ |
| 22:40.05 | Vonhinten | buff bots in DAoC |
| 22:40.07 | airtonix | iUP: apples upload service |
| 22:40.08 | nicoli_s | i wanted to do something like that with aoc, too bad it tanked |
| 22:40.15 | BlackNet | k so what does wow use for the gui stuff. |
| 22:40.22 | nicoli_s | as the chat protocol is very similar to ao |
| 22:40.28 | BlackNet | combo boxes, list boxes, check boxes, control boxes, etc.. |
| 22:40.34 | airtonix | lua? |
| 22:40.37 | airtonix | xml? |
| 22:40.41 | alestane | An internal widget API written in Lua. |
| 22:40.42 | airtonix | mudkips? |
| 22:40.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Their own GUI toolkit |
| 22:40.49 | ScytheBlade1 | widget API |
| 22:40.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Whatever you want to call it |
| 22:40.57 | BlackNet | lua doesn't do graphical stuff. you need some gui kit to go with it |
| 22:41.04 | ScytheBlade1 | It does in WoW |
| 22:41.05 | airtonix | mudkipAPI |
| 22:41.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Or can, rather |
| 22:41.18 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Widget_API |
| 22:41.20 | alestane | WoW exports its widget API into Lua. |
| 22:41.39 | BlackNet | it's using some 3rd party widget like kd3 just posted to me . |
| 22:41.52 | NightHawkTheSan1 | thats not a 3rd party widget |
| 22:41.53 | airtonix | orly? |
| 22:42.01 | kd3 | if by 3rd party you mean what blizz wrote and we documented on wowwiki |
| 22:42.04 | Jamash | it's 100% blizzard, so it's a 1st-party widget set |
| 22:42.11 | NightHawkTheSan1 | kd3 linked you the community documntation for blizzards internal widget api |
| 22:42.16 | airtonix | lulz |
| 22:42.29 | BlackNet | by 3rd party meaning it's not straight lua, they added some other stuff to it for that |
| 22:42.32 | Codayus | To some extent, it's a question of scale I suppose. I don't know if they still do it, but for years Anarchy Online made a point of having a GM visit every new player to chat about the game and ask if they were having any problems. |
| 22:42.42 | ScytheBlade1 | WoW took lua and embedded it into the engine |
| 22:42.51 | airtonix | isn't most stuff in lua '3rd party' though? |
| 22:42.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Then they exported thousands of C functions into the lua runtime |
| 22:42.56 | Codayus | Bliz doesn't do that with WoW, for obvious reasons. |
| 22:43.10 | BlackNet | i.e. bitlib would be 3rd party |
| 22:43.21 | NightHawkTheSan1 | if you're going to go that route, it'd be more appropriate to say that lua is a 3rd party language that blizzard used in wow |
| 22:43.28 | airtonix | as would mudkipLib |
| 22:43.35 | BlackNet | bitlib is not standard in lua but it's an addon project. |
| 22:43.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Which Blizz took and integrated into their engine |
| 22:44.10 | ScytheBlade1 | If you're going to be that literal in terms of definitions |
| 22:45.08 | ScytheBlade1 | WoW doesn't use lua, it uses WoWLua |
| 22:45.08 | alestane | It's mostly used with the combat log and occasionally with bag addons. |
| 22:45.08 | BlackNet | http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/v/vendetta/plugins/TA/dump0002.png.html this is iup stuff. |
| 22:49.50 | airtonix | tekkub, i love the new api at github btw |
| 22:50.17 | tekkub | I'll take credit for that even though I had nothing to do with it |
| 22:50.20 | tekkub | ^^ |
| 22:50.24 | BlackNet | lol we have totaly fubar'd the github project. |
| 22:50.45 | BlackNet | it was a mess to fix it to |
| 22:51.22 | alestane | And is this something to celebrate? |
| 22:51.24 | BlackNet | so it looks like wow uses xml for the gui stuff? |
| 22:51.32 | BlackNet | alestane no it's somethign to face palm about. |
| 22:51.32 | alestane | It can. |
| 22:51.36 | ScytheBlade1 | or lua |
| 22:52.00 | BlackNet | is blizzard sharing or showing the client lua code? |
| 22:52.10 | airtonix | wowcompare.com |
| 22:52.11 | alestane | You can describe widgets in XML and have the game load them from your description, or you can supply the actual Lua code to create them. |
| 22:52.32 | BlackNet | one faster than the other? |
| 22:52.43 | alestane | Blizzard provides an extractor, and the community maintains a repository at wowcompares.com. |
| 22:52.43 | jnwhiteh | They serve different purposes. |
| 22:52.46 | ScytheBlade1 | not really |
| 22:52.49 | foxlit | Not to the point of you caring. |
| 22:52.52 | ScytheBlade1 | ^ |
| 22:52.55 | alestane | Speed isn't enough of a factor to care about. |
| 22:53.07 | ScytheBlade1 | XML was the original way to do it, period |
| 22:53.22 | theorbtwo | A few seconds of your time is far more important then a few microseconds of computer time. |
| 22:53.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Later, after launch, Blizzard exported tons of C functions into the lua runtime, to allow a pure-lua solution |
| 22:53.56 | BlackNet | ok any way to see what quests a character has already completed? |
| 22:54.02 | kd3 | nope |
| 22:54.03 | alestane | BlackNet: No. |
| 22:54.07 | kd3 | something we've been asking for for years |
| 22:54.22 | alestane | The server knows all, but it's not telling. The client doesn't get that info. |
| 22:54.28 | BlackNet | noticed that when i put lightheaded on last night |
| 22:54.45 | BlackNet | well noticed a great need for that |
| 22:54.46 | alestane | Partly, I think, to avoid network congestion on lengthy quest list requests. |
| 22:54.55 | jnwhiteh | its not something anyone really needs |
| 22:54.56 | Lopeppeppy | EveryQuest will help you track them as you do them, but nothing knows what you have done in the past. |
| 22:55.01 | jnwhiteh | you can get a close enough approximation |
| 22:55.09 | jnwhiteh | and i dont think anyone has a really good use case for it, other than the achievement. |
| 22:55.25 | BlackNet | well if your on 3 of 10 for a quest you can assume 1-2 are complete |
| 22:55.26 | kd3 | yay for low-level quest tracking |
| 22:55.31 | jnwhiteh | certainly not enough to justify the communications overhead :P |
| 22:55.32 | jnwhiteh | kd3: idd |
| 22:55.36 | alestane | I'd like to see WoWLua evolve to the point where XML has little added value, but there's unlikely to actually be any reason to get rid of XML from WoW. |
| 22:55.43 | jnwhiteh | BlackNet: the series information is not available without parsing the DBC files |
| 22:55.48 | jnwhiteh | alestane: I don't see what you gain by that |
| 22:55.54 | jnwhiteh | I think that would be an enormous loss. |
| 22:55.55 | jnwhiteh | a huge loss. |
| 22:56.11 | foxlit | As if a thousand tags cried out in pain... |
| 22:56.15 | alestane | For WoW, you don't gain much, because there's already a great deal of legacy XML. |
| 22:56.35 | BlackNet | this would be where a sql db comes in handy :) |
| 22:56.37 | Vonhinten | I've had need for quest history before. Items that I overlooked from a quest reward were good, needed to check to see if I had done the quest. |
| 22:56.44 | tekkub | wow's lua has evolved to the point you dodn't gain anything from the XML :P |
| 22:56.46 | jnwhiteh | alestane: I gain validation against a schema. |
| 22:56.50 | jnwhiteh | Lua cannot provide that, and never will |
| 22:56.52 | Vonhinten | Just recently actually, with my feral druid, and an Idol I didn't take |
| 22:56.54 | jnwhiteh | You gain plenty from the XML |
| 22:57.00 | jnwhiteh | just because you don't use it doesn't negate that |
| 22:57.00 | jnwhiteh | >< |
| 22:57.06 | jnwhiteh | I hate when people spread that crap =/ |
| 22:57.17 | tekkub | you're just a whiner :P |
| 22:57.31 | alestane | But Lua is originally a data description language, and with a little tweaking, you can write frame descriptions in Lua with comparable clarity. |
| 22:57.31 | alestane | As it happens, I do use XML quite a bit where I think it's useful. |
| 22:57.33 | tekkub | seriously, what does the xml give that the lua doesn't? |
| 22:57.41 | jnwhiteh | alestane: yesz.. an thenyou have to write a validation tol |
| 22:57.42 | jnwhiteh | tool |
| 22:57.43 | BlackNet | i am also not sure at this point if i will be doing any plugins for wow, kinda just want to play the game and enjoy it for what it is |
| 22:57.44 | jnwhiteh | it already exists for XML |
| 22:57.49 | jnwhiteh | it can drive editors |
| 22:58.00 | jnwhiteh | why would you reinvent that? |
| 22:58.07 | BlackNet | oh that's another thing |
| 22:58.19 | BlackNet | any history of rogue or bad plugins in wow? |
| 22:58.38 | BlackNet | hear many stories about accounts getting hacked etc.. figured there would have been some rogue plugins out there |
| 22:58.48 | jnwhiteh | addons can't have any effect on that |
| 22:58.49 | jnwhiteh | so no. |
| 22:59.03 | alestane | Well, firstly, I'm not thrilled about the way it divides code between different locations in the stock UI. I have to read at least two different files in two different languages to understand how a frame works. |
| 22:59.16 | airtonix | tekkub, can i create secure group templates for ouf in lua? |
| 22:59.28 | tekkub | yes |
| 22:59.35 | tekkub | factories, not templates |
| 22:59.37 | jnwhiteh | alestane: that doesn't negate the benefits that you get as a result |
| 22:59.43 | airtonix | awesome, does your github have examples? |
| 22:59.48 | jnwhiteh | and logically it makes sense to separate the two |
| 22:59.56 | jnwhiteh | that's very standard |
| 22:59.57 | tekkub | uh, I think I pushed ouf_tek? |
| 23:00.09 | jnwhiteh | visual definition here, logic there. |
| 23:00.12 | alestane | However, they're not properly separated if that's your goal. |
| 23:00.20 | tekkub | most of the ouf templates out there use something along those lines unless they do XML |
| 23:00.30 | BlackNet | plugin_A can read/write data structures from plugin_B so how can you ensure security? simple answer is you can not |
| 23:00.31 | jnwhiteh | no its far from perfect |
| 23:00.33 | airtonix | tekkub, yeah problem im having is that i want my party frames to have pet and target frames too, is this possible with factories? |
| 23:00.33 | jnwhiteh | itsXML ffs. |
| 23:00.44 | jnwhiteh | XML is always a problem |
| 23:00.48 | jnwhiteh | but that doesn't mean there isn't a benefit to XML |
| 23:00.58 | jnwhiteh | or rather, to frame definitions in XML in this context. |
| 23:01.01 | tekkub | I do my pets with a separate header, I don't know how you do them all on the same header |
| 23:01.08 | Codayus | BlackNet: Depends what you mean. Account security? Addons have no access to that, full stop. Of course you can ensure security. |
| 23:01.19 | tekkub | which means the pets don't line up to their owners, but I don't care about that |
| 23:01.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 23:01.49 | alestane | I wouldn't actually want to purge XML from WoW, there's little benefit to removing it either. But if I were writing another MMO, I'd hesitate to include multiple structures for creation. |
| 23:02.07 | jnwhiteh | having something that can be formally validated is a good thing |
| 23:02.17 | jnwhiteh | for rapid development, deployment both in-house and out of house. |
| 23:02.19 | *** part/#wowuidev Movix (n=Movix@mail.schiffmann.fr) |
| 23:02.23 | airtonix | tekkub, http://github.com/airtonix/oufsmee2groups/blob/ab0a1654dab5f1fa74c0b726e746221ccbf8bc13/oUF_Smee2_Groups/party-template.xml |
| 23:02.32 | jnwhiteh | if you don't think it has use, use an XML editor with tab completion :P |
| 23:02.33 | BlackNet | Codayus that's actually a fuction of how wow loads, i did notice the first time that it does indeed load in a secure manner. however, once it loads the plugins practically all bets are off at that point. |
| 23:03.08 | *** part/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 23:03.14 | tekkub | doesn't develop houses, he develops software |
| 23:03.14 | jnwhiteh | .. I don't undestadn what you're saying |
| 23:03.22 | jnwhiteh | there is absolutely no risk to running an addon in world of warcraft |
| 23:03.25 | jnwhiteh | in any way, shape or form |
| 23:03.44 | tekkub | and for the most part, tab-completion in an editor causes me more trouble than it helps |
| 23:03.49 | Vonhinten | "no risk" is a pretty bold statement |
| 23:04.02 | jnwhiteh | i stand by it |
| 23:04.02 | alestane | Code is mostly self-validating though. If you try to create a texture in another texture, that method doesn't exist. I'll concede that you have to run the code to determine that, instead of grinding it through XMLSpy or whatever. |
| 23:04.03 | jnwhiteh | 100% |
| 23:04.07 | BlackNet | yea it is a bold statement but i understand what was said |
| 23:04.21 | Vonhinten | Does an addon that logs your chat and broadcasts it to a secret channel pose a risk? |
| 23:04.21 | BlackNet | and jnwhiteh is correct on that to |
| 23:04.33 | jnwhiteh | alestane: But you ahve to _ruN- the code to validate |
| 23:04.37 | jnwhiteh | halting problem, much? |
| 23:04.37 | tekkub | airtonix: I may end up toying with my layout a bit to see if I can get lineup-pets |
| 23:04.49 | jnwhiteh | formal models are good. |
| 23:04.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 23:04.52 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 23:04.53 | Lopeppeppy | Vonhinten, you installed it, why would you install something you don't want? |
| 23:05.01 | Vonhinten | LOL |
| 23:05.29 | Esamynn | tekkub: Re: Kennel, you already have a list of conditions where it won't try to put out a pet, could you add GetUnitSpeed("player")>0 to that if statement please |
| 23:05.29 | Vonhinten | Lope, people don't install malware on purpose, usually :) |
| 23:05.36 | Lunessa | OMG - someone is reading my chat? Like you guys don't read enough of my crap in IRC? Pointless relay of chat is pointless. |
| 23:05.38 | Lopeppeppy | If you don't like brussel sprouts, don't put any on your plate. "risk" is crap, the worst an addon can do is accidentally crash your wow. |
| 23:05.42 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 23:05.53 | tekkub | Esamynn: no |
| 23:05.58 | jnwhiteh | Lopeppeppy: locks are worse than crashed, but yes =) |
| 23:06.02 | Esamynn | tekkub: why? |
| 23:06.03 | Vonhinten | Can an addon kick someone from your guild? |
| 23:06.12 | tekkub | because you can put pets out when moving |
| 23:06.13 | Vonhinten | with permissions? |
| 23:06.14 | alestane | Or possibly, ask you for your login information, but if you type that into WoW chat, you frankly deserve what you get. |
| 23:06.24 | Esamynn | tekkub: Kennel killed me the other day because it put a pet out while I was falling (I'm a Druid) |
| 23:06.28 | Codayus | BlackNet: Mmm, there's not a great deal of security within the sandbox, but the sandbox is secure. It'd be pretty hard to be sure you wearn't running a "black hat" addon that tells people your gold total, or what bosses you had killed. On the other hand, do you care? Really? |
| 23:06.34 | Lopeppeppy | Lock, crash, you're pickin' nits on me, jnwhiteh. |
| 23:06.36 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 23:06.43 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Eh, I dont think social engineering should count as addons being insecure. |
| 23:06.46 | airtonix | tekkub, reason i asked about xml-less templates is i have a fairly comprehensive option config for both my ouf layouts. now the problem im having with the party aspect is that i would like to be able to treat parttargets as one group sepeareate from the party member frames |
| 23:06.59 | BlackNet | Vonhinten you could do things like auto send mail of items/gold/etc.. cause intentional lag, other annoyances that would give others an unfair advantage over your toon |
| 23:06.59 | airtonix | tekkub, ouf.units.party = header blah |
| 23:07.01 | tekkub | ah, but you could be falling withoutmoving horizontally, so won't speed report 0? |
| 23:07.02 | Codayus | The worst thing that springs to mind is an addon that vendors stuff. |
| 23:07.08 | airtonix | tekkub, ouf.units.partytargets = header blah |
| 23:07.12 | Lopeppeppy | If you're paranoid, don't use 'em. |
| 23:07.19 | Esamynn | true, but at least as long as I don't do that, it won't kill me ;) |
| 23:07.20 | Codayus | (That you don't want vendored, that is.) |
| 23:07.30 | Esamynn | so I at least have a work-around |
| 23:07.31 | BlackNet | not paranoid. i just ask if there has been any like that in the past |
| 23:07.41 | tekkub | airtonix: you can make them separate, on a sperate header like I do... |
| 23:07.54 | tekkub | but like I said, they won't line up then, they're just spawned in order |
| 23:07.55 | BlackNet | figured there were some in the past or what not considering how many accounts get hacked and stuff |
| 23:07.57 | Esamynn | wonders why putting out a pet triggers the GCD |
| 23:07.57 | airtonix | i cant see your template on your github |
| 23:08.03 | Codayus | BlackNet: The worst real case I can think of is an addon that under some circumstance which now escapes me made you yell somehting stupid periodically. |
| 23:08.04 | airtonix | tekkub, there is no xml file there |
| 23:08.14 | airtonix | http://github.com/tekkub/ouf_tek/tree/master |
| 23:08.16 | Lopeppeppy | Codayus, that was the Mazzlegasm |
| 23:08.23 | BlackNet | Codayus fair enough |
| 23:08.30 | tekkub | Esamynn: it used to be you couldn't while moving, so back then there was a condition |
| 23:08.39 | tekkub | we just need IsFalling() is all |
| 23:08.44 | Vonhinten | Quite right. "risk" is a moving bar. Malware in the past used to be quite annoying. These days you don't even know you have it most of the time, it's doing stuff behind the scenes. |
| 23:08.51 | alestane | There have occasionally been addons that violated design intention or exploited loopholes in the UI to break limitations on gameplay, but they get disabled or banned very quickly, and I have no more intention to discuss the particulars. |
| 23:08.52 | Lopeppeppy | No addon can hack your account or eat your dog, so long as it runs in the addon framework and isn't an outside application. |
| 23:09.03 | Esamynn | heh, yah, so we don't kill our companions along with us when we go splat! ;) |
| 23:09.25 | tekkub | where's that zoot bitch |
| 23:09.27 | Codayus | Lopeppeppy: Mmm, I think I was thinking of a different case. *shrug* But yeah, I don't know of a more serious case of bad behaviour than yelling. Or in once case, a PvP addon which wouldn't load for alliance, but that wasn't really "bad", just silly. |
| 23:09.33 | Lunessa | Account hacking is almost always the result of users who a) fail to secure their computer, b) social engineering, or c) combination attacks of malware and bad web sites. |
| 23:10.27 | Esamynn | and you could argue C falls under A & B |
| 23:10.29 | Tem | reboots to install driver for old video card :( |
| 23:10.30 | BlackNet | Lunessa have seen some that had 'secure' passwords |
| 23:10.42 | Codayus | I don't know of hard stats, but my feeling is social engineering is the main one. |
| 23:10.51 | airtonix | tekkub, nvm i found your use of SecureGroupPetHeaderTemplate |
| 23:11.12 | BlackNet | my understanding from what i have seen and heard so far is it's almost always someone they hackee knows or knew. |
| 23:11.20 | Lunessa | BlackNet: If I install a keylogger, your secure password isn't worth cheap toilet paper. |
| 23:11.37 | Codayus | For example, the spectral tiger mount scam, where people say their selling the code to get it, send a fake code along with a link to a non-legit redemption website that asks for your account details. |
| 23:11.38 | BlackNet | Lunessa yup you get the point i was making on that |
| 23:12.04 | Codayus | Pretty basic phishing techniques wrapped in some clever social engineering. |
| 23:12.04 | BlackNet | or that chinese gold stuff i hear loadsa bout on the trade channels |
| 23:12.27 | Lunessa | Stupidity - more common than Hydrogen, and far more dangerous. |
| 23:12.51 | Esamynn | ^ |
| 23:12.54 | jnwhiteh | sleeps |
| 23:12.59 | BlackNet | have seen more client ( i do network consulting btw) fall victim to scareware programs than anything else, including spam email |
| 23:15.24 | Codayus | If I was Bliz...I think I'd just include an authenticator in every box of the next MMO I did. |
| 23:15.36 | BlackNet | that's what i thought to |
| 23:15.51 | BlackNet | i also think they should embed authenticators in all credit cards as well |
| 23:15.51 | alestane | They gave them out free to BlizzCon attendees last year. |
| 23:15.59 | BlackNet | that would stop all cc scam and stolen numbers. |
| 23:16.04 | jnwhiteh | not really |
| 23:16.05 | Lopeppeppy | It most certainly would not. |
| 23:16.08 | jnwhiteh | depends on the company asking for things |
| 23:16.15 | BlackNet | make a purchase, put in the key auth and it's null after say 20 mins or so. |
| 23:16.16 | jnwhiteh | so they add your authenticator number to the fake website |
| 23:16.24 | Lopeppeppy | [19:11] BlackNet: my understanding from what i have seen and heard so far is it's almost always someone they hackee knows or knew. |
| 23:16.51 | Codayus | It would help, but it doesn't stop man in the middle attacks, for example. |
| 23:17.08 | BlackNet | would certainly make a HUGE dent in the problem that's for sure |
| 23:17.26 | Lopeppeppy | Now that a much more moderate statement that people can agree with to some extent. |
| 23:17.28 | BlackNet | you would still have physically stolen cards and the like. |
| 23:18.10 | BlackNet | would have issues with auto rebilling. the classic web order stole your cc# would be history |
| 23:18.58 | Esamynn | BlackNet: they already ARE (<BlackNet>i also think they should embed authenticators in all credit cards as well) |
| 23:19.14 | Esamynn | what do you think those new Chip Credit Cards are? |
| 23:19.35 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=chatzill@adcom005v.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 23:21.19 | BlackNet | not quire the same thing but close |
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| 23:23.26 | Esamynn | how is it different? |
| 23:24.12 | BlackNet | what i mentioned you would push a button on the card and enter the session code |
| 23:24.33 | Esamynn | that's my point, the chip automates that process |
| 23:24.57 | BlackNet | so you make a web order you enter that code to complete the transaction |
| 23:25.56 | Esamynn | true, it doesn't work for web orders |
| 23:26.19 | BlackNet | you see the snafu that starbucks made recently with the 1 million orders? |
| 23:26.31 | Esamynn | nope |
| 23:26.47 | BlackNet | when they did end of the day processing all 1 million orders were rebilled, |
| 23:27.00 | BlackNet | so instead of one $5 charge you got 2x $5 charges |
| 23:27.08 | BlackNet | 1 million cards |
| 23:29.06 | BlackNet | May 22 and 23 at 7,800 company-owned stores in the U.S. and Canada. |
| 23:29.28 | BlackNet | http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2009-06-09-starbucks-doublebills-accidentally_N.htm |
| 23:30.29 | Esamynn | lol |
| 23:30.46 | Esamynn | now, the chip cards will prevent that! |
| 23:30.52 | Lopeppeppy | No they won't. *laugh* |
| 23:31.06 | Esamynn | why not? |
| 23:31.14 | BlackNet | the setup i just mentioned with the authenticator would prevent that quickly |
| 23:31.23 | BlackNet | as long as it was over the time limit, |
| 23:31.33 | theorbtwo | They are meant to make it harder, at least. |
| 23:31.41 | theorbtwo | May or may not actually do so, of course. |
| 23:31.57 | BlackNet | brb |
| 23:32.04 | theorbtwo | It's a backcompat issue. You can still process chip cards as magstripe cards. |
| 23:32.12 | Esamynn | yes, you can |
| 23:32.17 | Lopeppeppy | If the company is handling all transactions at the end of the day, they already have your info stored, and just accidentally use it twice instead of once. |
| 23:32.18 | theorbtwo | If the second charge goes through as a magstripe charge, it'll work. |
| 23:32.42 | Esamynn | but if the original charge was done using the chip, the 2nd one will be denied, because they won't have the mag strip info |
| 23:32.59 | theorbtwo | Esamynn: Won't they? There really isn't that much mag strip info. |
| 23:33.16 | Esamynn | no, when you use a chip card in a chip enabled machine, you don't swip it |
| 23:33.22 | Esamynn | swipe* |
| 23:33.34 | Esamynn | mag strip isn't involved at all |
| 23:33.36 | theorbtwo | Esamynn: I know. They're the normal case over here. |
| 23:33.49 | Lopeppeppy | I don't think so, Esamynn. I think they did their CoD twice accidentally, and had actually been storing info for end of day mass processing. |
| 23:34.10 | theorbtwo | Esamynn: But I know what information is actually encoded on the mag stripe, and I think at least almost all of it is available on the chip as well. |
| 23:34.14 | Esamynn | Lopeppeppy: exactly, which won't be POSSIBLE with chip chard systems |
| 23:34.25 | Esamynn | well |
| 23:34.27 | Esamynn | let me back up |
| 23:34.36 | Esamynn | if they implemented it in a sane fashion, is shouldn't be |
| 23:34.42 | Esamynn | it* |
| 23:34.55 | Lopeppeppy | See? |
| 23:34.58 | theorbtwo | Esamynn: Correct. They aren't implemented in a sane fashion. |
| 23:35.01 | Esamynn | I am making a certain set of assumptions here |
| 23:35.06 | Lopeppeppy | Now we're back to the ifs that fall on my side, which is that it won't help. |
| 23:35.33 | theorbtwo | Esamynn: What information is on the stripe is readily available with a little googling. |
| 23:36.08 | theorbtwo | It's pretty much the credit card number and expiry, and a little bit of information on what sorts of authentication and charges are allowed. |
| 23:36.19 | Esamynn | see, I would have thought that the only way to do a chip transaction was in REAL TIME |
| 23:36.21 | Esamynn | is this not the case? |
| 23:36.32 | Esamynn | ie. you need to have a connection to the card company |
| 23:36.48 | theorbtwo | Esamynn: I'm not sure. I do know that some of my magstrips say that's the only way to do a transaction. |
| 23:37.05 | ScytheBlade1 | My friend has a magstripe reader |
| 23:37.15 | ScytheBlade1 | He's passed MANY cards through it, out of curiosity |
| 23:37.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Never has there been any valuable information on the stripe that wasn't printed on the card or on your drivers license |
| 23:37.32 | theorbtwo | I have one, but haven't done all that much with it. |
| 23:48.33 | airtonix | having the card in the first place is half the deal though? |
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| 23:51.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Depends on the vendor |
| 23:52.06 | ScytheBlade1 | In pretty much every case, if you have the card details memorized, the numbers can be punched in, no card needed |
| 23:52.23 | ScytheBlade1 | The question is, if the vendor allows you to do that |
