| 00:00.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-50-28.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:01.00 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:01.58 | Coren{de} | lol... http://www.wowgem.fr/ForumsPro.html -- "pro" eh? garbled data ftw :> |
| 00:03.26 | *** join/#wowuidev dustice (n=dustin@c-98-234-71-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:03.48 | Mystical | im going insane -.- |
| 00:03.53 | Mystical | http://nopaste.us.to/26f697d7a6.html |
| 00:03.58 | Mystical | doesnt work either |
| 00:04.03 | Mystical | no lua file |
| 00:04.43 | Mystical | position saved in layout |
| 00:07.13 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@c-68-62-175-169.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 00:07.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 00:07.36 | Mystical | i dont see any way to make it more simple |
| 00:07.51 | End | what's the problem now? |
| 00:08.03 | Mystical | it doesnt stay where i move it to |
| 00:08.19 | End | after reload? |
| 00:08.24 | Mystical | jep |
| 00:08.41 | Mystical | or relog / ... |
| 00:08.49 | Mystical | whatever |
| 00:09.01 | End | what's the result of ForsakenLootLog_Main:IsUserPlaced()? |
| 00:10.54 | Mystical | nil |
| 00:11.23 | Legorol | ~bible |
| 00:11.24 | purl | rumour has it, bible is http://wowprogramming.com |
| 00:14.11 | Mystical | as soon as i start moving it gets 1, and as soon i reloadui whatever wow saves the position to the layout-local but moves it back to the initial position anyway |
| 00:16.00 | Coren{de} | is the "hidden=true" maybe a culprit? |
| 00:16.14 | Coren{de} | (hidden='false' that is) |
| 00:16.23 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 00:17.14 | Coren{de} | maybe Blizz' code doesn't like to move visible frames :> |
| 00:17.35 | Legorol | Mystical: try and remove the <OnLoad> handler you got there :) |
| 00:17.44 | Legorol | i know that it's empty with no code in it, but try it anyway ;) |
| 00:18.36 | *** join/#wowuidev phyber (i=phyber@irssi.co.uk) |
| 00:19.29 | Mystical | Legorol: still |
| 00:19.41 | Legorol | boo |
| 00:19.45 | zenzelezz | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/06/06/funny-pictures-was-really-invented/ |
| 00:20.02 | Legorol | then try doing this:SetMovable(1) from OnLoad |
| 00:20.15 | Legorol | it's still not too late to call that, the UI should still load the info from layout-cache |
| 00:21.40 | Coren{de} | movable="true" should already cover the base of this:SetMovable(1)... |
| 00:21.47 | Mystical | @ Coren{de} making it initally invisible didnt help either |
| 00:22.11 | Mystical | how can this be?!? :(( |
| 00:22.31 | Mystical | the most simple movable frame i can imagine |
| 00:22.51 | Coren{de} | you didn't sacrifice the correct amount of black cats this month! |
| 00:22.58 | Mystical | damn |
| 00:23.00 | Mystical | thats it |
| 00:23.02 | Mystical | :/ |
| 00:23.14 | Legorol | Coren{de}: i know that it *should*, but try it anyway |
| 00:23.29 | Legorol | because if SetMovable works but movable="true" doesn't, then there's something odd going on that's worth investigating further |
| 00:23.55 | *** join/#wowuidev rapidgame (i=rapidgam@115.23.255.123.dynamic.snap.net.nz) |
| 00:24.28 | Mystical | im such despaired i would even try different case :P |
| 00:25.12 | Mystical | bad example, anyway it doesnt fix it |
| 00:27.23 | Legorol | Mystical: my next idea. Change this: |
| 00:27.24 | Legorol | <Anchor point="TOPLEFT"> <Offset><AbsDimension x="0" y="0" /></Offset> |
| 00:27.24 | Legorol | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.26 | Legorol | to this: |
| 00:27.29 | Legorol | oops i mean |
| 00:27.39 | Legorol | I mean change this: |
| 00:27.39 | Legorol | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.39 | Legorol | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.39 | Legorol | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.42 | Legorol | to this: |
| 00:27.51 | Legorol | <Anchor point="CENTER"></Anchor> |
| 00:27.55 | Legorol | i.e. leave out the offset |
| 00:28.11 | Mystical | dont paste multiple lines in chat ;) |
| 00:28.15 | End | I doubt that makes much difference, but the 0,0 isn't needed though |
| 00:28.16 | Legorol | yeah yeah |
| 00:28.18 | Legorol | only 3 lines |
| 00:28.20 | Mystical | but ill try |
| 00:28.26 | Legorol | End: it can make a difference |
| 00:28.33 | End | I doubt it! |
| 00:28.40 | Legorol | WoW works in mysterious ways ;) |
| 00:28.41 | End | maybe it could, but I'm still doubtful! |
| 00:28.46 | Legorol | i'm doubtful too |
| 00:28.50 | Legorol | but brainstorming here |
| 00:28.56 | Legorol | i'm pretty sure we are missing something obvious |
| 00:29.01 | End | probably |
| 00:29.25 | Mystical | it would be too easy .p |
| 00:29.32 | Mystical | dosnt help |
| 00:29.36 | Coren{de} | Mystical, could you try to add ... enableMouse="true" toplevel="true" ... if that makes a difference? |
| 00:29.49 | End | the obvious stuff is the stuff you don't look for |
| 00:29.54 | End | because it's obvious! |
| 00:30.37 | Mystical | nope |
| 00:31.05 | Mystical | it must be obvious ^^ the code is just some lines |
| 00:31.24 | Coren{de} | do you maybe have some addon that is doing window placement of some kind? create a new char on a server and enable only your addon... |
| 00:32.00 | Mystical | no i dont |
| 00:32.12 | Mystical | but trying with a diffrent char is no bad idea |
| 00:32.21 | Legorol | Mystical: i have just tried out the XML snippet you pasted and it's working for me |
| 00:32.26 | Legorol | I have no other addons enabled. |
| 00:32.36 | Legorol | All i have is a single XML file, referenced from a TOC file, and that's it. |
| 00:33.09 | Legorol | However, i noticed that starting from a clean WTF folder, I get a file named "layout-local.txt" in my <realm>\<char> folder |
| 00:33.09 | Mystical | strange |
| 00:33.16 | Legorol | i'm not getting "layout-cache.txt" |
| 00:33.28 | Mystical | it dowsnt work for other chars |
| 00:33.49 | Mystical | and the layout-local.txt is char-dependend |
| 00:34.01 | Mystical | wtf is going on with my wow :( |
| 00:34.21 | Legorol | yes, the layout-local is char dependent |
| 00:34.24 | Legorol | it's supposed to be |
| 00:34.32 | Legorol | user placed frame locations are meant to be char dependent |
| 00:35.23 | Legorol | Mystical: have you tried with a clean WTF folder? |
| 00:36.02 | Mystical | killing all my addon settings? |
| 00:36.10 | Legorol | well make a backup of it first |
| 00:36.18 | Legorol | but after that, yes, delete it completely |
| 00:36.24 | Legorol | have no other addon enabled except this one |
| 00:37.32 | Mystical | renamed it |
| 00:38.03 | Mystical | still not working o.O |
| 00:38.09 | dardack | hey is it true onyxia got buffed? |
| 00:38.13 | Mystical | ill disable all addons except that one |
| 00:39.09 | Mystical | can you post the .toc file you have used on nopaste? |
| 00:39.39 | Mystical | even if i dont think this could change that behavior |
| 00:40.46 | Mystical | strange... now it works |
| 00:41.20 | Legorol | then move your old WTF folder back |
| 00:41.31 | Legorol | try and see what could be in there that causes this problem |
| 00:41.37 | Legorol | it'd be really educational if you could isolate the issue |
| 00:42.05 | Legorol | as long as you keep a backup of your WTF folder, you can just go by process of elimination, deleting stuff from WTF until it starts working |
| 00:42.29 | Mystical | already moved it back |
| 00:42.49 | Mystical | could someone slap me plz ^^ |
| 00:42.59 | Legorol | i will, what is the issue |
| 00:43.02 | End | ~whaleslap Mystical |
| 00:43.03 | purl | ACTION beats Mystical upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 00:43.14 | Legorol | did you just figure out what was wrong? |
| 00:43.34 | Legorol | do tell if you know |
| 00:43.35 | Mystical | somehow i made it to use that frame name in the wrong addon -.- |
| 00:45.24 | Mystical | sorry for keeping you busy for such an dumb thing ^^ spent half of the day searching for that mistake -.- |
| 00:45.36 | Legorol | you mean you had another addon running at the same time? which was also using that frame name? |
| 00:45.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 00:45.44 | Mystical | je |
| 00:45.51 | Legorol | you DO deserve slapping for that |
| 00:45.55 | Legorol | not because you reused the frame name |
| 00:46.05 | Mystical | thats why i asked for it |
| 00:46.05 | Legorol | but because you should never, EVER have other addons running when you are troubleshooting an addon |
| 00:46.28 | Mystical | but i know this addon used the correct name earlier |
| 00:46.28 | Legorol | as a matter of principle |
| 00:46.38 | Legorol | unless it's a reliable development tool addon |
| 00:46.44 | Legorol | always switch everythign else off :) |
| 00:46.59 | End | well, I disable other addons just for fast reloads ;-p |
| 00:47.11 | Mystical | x) |
| 00:49.43 | Legorol | so, it was something obvious after all |
| 00:49.47 | Legorol | obvious stupidity :P |
| 00:50.09 | Legorol | having said that, if i got a dollar for each such stupidity i have ever commited in my life, i'd be a rich ma |
| 00:50.10 | Legorol | *man |
| 00:51.37 | tekkub | ignoring the fact that people don't like healing meters (I don't either...) |
| 00:51.45 | tekkub | does HPS matter much anymore? |
| 00:52.07 | tekkub | like if you were looking to get a good baseline of what you can dish out |
| 00:52.14 | airtonix | i prefer to think reaction time matters more |
| 00:52.22 | dardack | end: i'm wiht you man, i switchc em off not just for debuffbut fast reloadui |
| 00:52.41 | Mystical | HPS doesnt really tells much |
| 00:52.56 | dardack | tekkub: i run with a druid that doubles every other healer he runs with with the lowest overheal |
| 00:53.01 | dardack | don't knwo if it means anything |
| 00:53.07 | airtonix | it doesnt |
| 00:53.22 | dardack | i tank don't heal |
| 00:53.26 | dardack | so no clue |
| 00:53.28 | Coren{de} | overheal measuring for druids is cheating, I wouldn't count that :p |
| 00:53.37 | Mystical | for mt healer maybe but otherwise its totally useless |
| 00:53.50 | Mystical | im doing both :p |
| 00:54.41 | airtonix | wtb combat log that shows the name of the caster of whom had their absorbtion effect used up on their applied target |
| 00:54.52 | dardack | i wish there was a way to filter things from autoloot |
| 00:55.06 | Coren{de} | I usually keep lots of hots running, because I like the buffer :> but it (being Recount) doesn't count as overheal when the target is full health |
| 00:55.27 | airtonix | huh? |
| 00:55.32 | airtonix | hots overheal |
| 00:56.01 | Coren{de} | only the tick that is still doing at least 1 hp actual heal was counted, when I looked |
| 00:56.02 | airtonix | pretty sure i've seen recount show that too |
| 00:57.17 | tekkub | so don't waste time implementing HPS, got it |
| 00:57.20 | tekkub | I didn't wanna anyway |
| 00:57.22 | airtonix | tekkub, in fights where your healing targets will never ever reach full health, maybe yes then HPS might be a factor to consider |
| 00:58.31 | Coren{de} | tekkub, something like "most critical heal" would be a fancy stat :> |
| 00:58.35 | tekkub | I'm guessing that +heal is about the only thing people can check outside of actually playing anyway |
| 00:58.55 | airtonix | meaning? |
| 00:58.59 | tekkub | I'm not really that interested in tracking every stat out there... |
| 00:59.12 | tekkub | meaning to test how good a healer is, you take them on a raid :P |
| 00:59.26 | tekkub | I'm just tinkering with a simple heal meter is all |
| 00:59.39 | Coren{de} | most critical heal |
| 00:59.40 | airtonix | druid : i heal 7k dmg in my sleep, disco : i prevent 7k dmg in my sleep |
| 00:59.51 | Coren{de} | most critical heal = next hit would've killed the tank without |
| 01:00.03 | tekkub | hrm... I need to factor in absorbs too don't I |
| 01:00.14 | tekkub | glad I got a disc offspec |
| 01:00.17 | airtonix | most defnitly or I WILL NOM you |
| 01:00.36 | tekkub | yea I just forgot that disc is more absorb than direct heal |
| 01:00.55 | airtonix | like i said though, combat log won't make that job easy |
| 01:01.01 | mikma | penanceeeeeeee pew pew pew |
| 01:01.26 | airtonix | desired : tank abosrbs 6,488 dmg via priestX Power Word SHield |
| 01:01.30 | Coren{de} | I thought they added appropriate lines for absorb tracking meanwhile? |
| 01:01.39 | airtonix | reality : tank absorbs 6,488 dmg |
| 01:02.18 | airtonix | dude, discipline priests use shadow gear for best-in-slot gear |
| 01:02.29 | foxlit | airtonix: and what exactly is the issue? :) |
| 01:02.30 | airtonix | blizzard could give noms about us |
| 01:02.36 | foxlit | I mean, you know who cast the shield. |
| 01:02.43 | foxlit | You know how much damage was absorbed. |
| 01:02.51 | foxlit | 2 + 2 = ... |
| 01:03.03 | Coren{de} | 5! |
| 01:03.04 | airtonix | two disco in the raid. compute |
| 01:03.13 | dardack | so is it possible to know what's in the loot frame and only loot everything but x? |
| 01:03.17 | airtonix | which divine aegis got eaten? which shield got eaten? |
| 01:03.25 | rapidgame | Anyone else experience random "AceLocale-3.0: Congratz: Missing entry for '%q has been added to message table.':" even though the message is in the AceLocale table?? |
| 01:04.08 | foxlit | I doubt you'd run into issues determining which shield was eaten. |
| 01:04.23 | foxlit | Divine aegis, maybe, but unless that expires more often than it is depleted, you can still do the math. |
| 01:04.33 | mikma | since, he cant be protected with another shield .. |
| 01:04.38 | airtonix | at the moment it's a calculated guess, there is no exact way to tell for sure. |
| 01:05.30 | Coren{de} | well, don't put two discs in a raid la~ must be nerfed anyway :> |
| 01:05.38 | airtonix | and was it the aegis from the priest or the divine shield from the paladin that prevented the damage? |
| 01:06.18 | foxlit | coughs at divine shield |
| 01:07.11 | foxlit | Someone needs to do their paladin homework. |
| 01:07.20 | mikma | bubble+hs |
| 01:07.27 | mikma | did i pass? |
| 01:08.33 | foxlit | mikma: you always pass. |
| 01:08.43 | ScytheBlade1 | ha |
| 01:08.44 | ScytheBlade1 | http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1259413&cid=28236025 |
| 01:08.55 | mikma | woooooo, like human-bender said |
| 01:09.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Korenl (n=koren@97-95-35-149.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 01:10.29 | Coren{de} | tss, not fair, using logic! I wonder when logic will be banned as weapon of mass de-confusion...:> |
| 01:10.36 | airtonix | divine shield absorbs dmg just like Divine Protection and Sacred Shield |
| 01:11.27 | airtonix | so how you going to reliably tell wether a paladin taking dmg absorbed it from either those three or the two a priest can give? |
| 01:11.54 | airtonix | (or another target who the paladin gave sacred shield to*) |
| 01:12.08 | airtonix | it'll be a rough guess at best |
| 01:12.08 | foxlit | Except, you know, divine shield is the self-only 50% damage reduction. |
| 01:12.13 | airtonix | and? |
| 01:12.28 | foxlit | Not an absorption effect. You're talking about something else. |
| 01:13.30 | airtonix | Protects the paladin from all damage and spells for 12 sec, but reduces all damage you deal by 50%. |
| 01:13.46 | airtonix | sound like an absorb to me. |
| 01:14.04 | foxlit | That kind of makes things trivial to handle |
| 01:14.25 | foxlit | protected from all damage and spells -> nobody's shields do any healing |
| 01:14.32 | foxlit | But it's not an absorption mechanic: it's an immunity. |
| 01:14.51 | Wobin | heh |
| 01:15.11 | Wobin | They should have labeled the reskinned druid cat "Sailor Elune Kitty" |
| 01:16.34 | foxlit | In short, my unqualified opinion is that disc priest absorption is trackable in most situations. |
| 01:18.17 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 01:18.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@22.sub-97-15-134.myvzw.com) |
| 01:19.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Guest83631] by ChanServ |
| 01:22.13 | Guest83631 | I said nick Shirik fool |
| 01:24.12 | Shirik | Wikipedia is a wealth of useless stuff |
| 01:24.33 | Shirik | Notes about tetris: Holds the guiness world record for "longest prison sentence for playing a video game" |
| 01:25.43 | End | o_O |
| 01:26.13 | Shirik | 4 months for a dude that refused to stop playing tetris on his cell phone during a flight |
| 01:26.58 | mikma | on soviet russia, games will put you in jail |
| 01:30.48 | foxlit | that... does not work. |
| 01:32.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Jim-Bim (n=thorben_@mnsr-4db169a0.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 01:37.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (n=Jamash@75-25-130-215.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:39.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@host81-157-48-73.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:41.35 | Shirik | ok hold up |
| 01:41.35 | Shirik | seriously? |
| 01:41.35 | Shirik | emacs has a tetris game in it? |
| 01:41.52 | Shirik | Is there any need for more proof that emacs literally has the kitchen sink in it? |
| 01:42.07 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 01:42.07 | End | you're acting surprised |
| 01:42.12 | End | stop acting surprised |
| 01:42.12 | foxlit | I'd like to see a kitchen sink. |
| 01:42.13 | ScytheBlade1 | a picture of a kitchen sink |
| 01:42.29 | Shirik | meta-x kitchen sink |
| 01:42.34 | Shirik | that would be a great command |
| 01:42.40 | Shirik | I should write an emacs patch to do that |
| 01:42.42 | Shirik | and submit it |
| 01:43.47 | foxlit | and probably get rejected because they already implement it in some fashion |
| 01:44.17 | Shirik | lol |
| 01:44.37 | foxlit | ^ed |
| 01:45.06 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 01:45.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 01:46.02 | foxlit | cute, google image search with color filtering |
| 01:46.18 | foxlit | http://images.google.com/images?q=sky&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&sa=G&um=1&imgcolor=pink |
| 01:46.30 | foxlit | works surprisingly well |
| 01:46.40 | MentalPower | This 1 vs 100 thing on xbox live is really cool |
| 01:46.42 | MentalPower | anyone else tried it? |
| 01:47.43 | mikma | foxlit: http://kuvaton.com/bshit/health_mana.jpg |
| 01:47.51 | mikma | shirik: see, bshit again |
| 01:49.24 | mikma | nsf america, propably |
| 01:49.26 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/dirtymind.jpg |
| 01:50.30 | Coren{de} | rofl... good stuff... "trojan horse!" :DD |
| 01:51.26 | Coren{de} | ( http://kuvaton.com/bshit/trojan_horse.jpg ) |
| 01:53.26 | Shirik | oh that's c&h isn't it |
| 01:53.40 | Shirik | yes it is |
| 01:57.21 | Coren{de} | http://kuvaton.com/browse/12063/no_no_no.jpg ... that should be named "no reading skills, yay!" :D |
| 02:02.46 | rapidgame | when trying to record what mob dropped what loot, is it alright to just use the current target when the Loot window opens? I see in other addons such as Mob Info, they keep a record of the last targeted mob, but doesn't the player *always* have to target a mob in order to loot it? |
| 02:03.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (n=Shirik@ppp184-136.broadband.gorge.net) |
| 02:05.54 | End | huh |
| 02:07.59 | End | NightHawkTheSane: is the LDB plugin for StableBoy supposed to be sorted? |
| 02:08.49 | End | my ground mount list is...sort of sorted |
| 02:09.27 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 02:11.07 | *** join/#wowuidev JaggaJatt (n=541punja@87-194-92-118.bethere.co.uk) |
| 02:12.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 02:17.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 02:25.06 | mikma | rapidgame: see how i do the item recording in Nongren |
| 02:30.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Tewan_ (n=quassel@adsl-76-192-228-25.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:30.58 | Tewan_ | I has a problem. D: |
| 02:31.06 | Tewan_ | Actually I have two.. |
| 02:31.10 | Tewan | Now I have one |
| 02:31.42 | Tewan | Whenever I mouse-over a skill on Bartender's bar, it shows the name of the skill but no information about the skill... |
| 02:32.13 | Tewan | Same with the default game bar |
| 02:32.18 | Tewan | I think it's something to do with Tiptac |
| 02:32.24 | Corrodias | so stop doing it! |
| 02:32.32 | Tewan | NO U |
| 02:32.44 | kd3 | turn on advanced tooltip mode in interface options |
| 02:32.47 | Corrodias | ok |
| 02:34.12 | Tewan | kd3: I lurv you. |
| 02:35.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Guest40258] by ChanServ |
| 02:44.33 | mikma | http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/2009/06/05/kisses-from-the-hungarian-monster/#more-1253 |
| 02:45.19 | Arrowmaster | on 1vs100 e3 extended play "Who voices cortana in halo 2?" |
| 02:45.50 | Arrowmaster | answer Jen Taylor, who is also the voice of the announcer in 1vs100 |
| 02:45.56 | Dagmar | Those E3 videos from Sony make me glad I have a PS3 |
| 02:45.56 | Arrowmaster | im perty sure |
| 02:46.03 | Cairenn | RAWR! 3 down, 1 to go! |
| 02:46.23 | End | hockey? |
| 02:46.40 | Dagmar | I have a Wii that's now at my elderly parents' house, it's tracking was not exactly accurate |
| 02:47.02 | Cairenn | yar |
| 02:52.03 | Dagmar | We tried to 9-man Grobbulus last night. |
| 02:52.19 | Dagmar | That, just, um... went wrong |
| 02:52.37 | dardack | heh |
| 02:52.43 | Dagmar | In retrospect, the having to run away for a bit seems to double-dip on nerfing DPS |
| 02:53.15 | Dagmar | Beforehand we were like, "Oi... that guy leaving means we're down to a mere 12.5k DPS lol" |
| 02:59.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Ix-Xitan (n=Ix-Xxita@195.158.101.139) |
| 03:00.00 | Tewan | TweakWoW is awesome :O |
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| 03:19.57 | Ix-Xitan | lol |
| 03:22.11 | Ix-Xitan | Argent Dawn :P ownage |
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| 03:43.55 | Ackis | Aezay2: hai |
| 03:44.15 | Ackis | you know about the bug w/ the latest tiptac? |
| 03:45.00 | Aezay2 | Ackis, what bug is that? |
| 03:47.03 | Ackis | [2009/06/06 21:42:37-362-x1]: TipTac-09.05.26\core.lua:836: attempt to index local 'self' (a nil value) |
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| 03:48.42 | Aezay | Ackis, that seems more like a bad hook somewhere, self shouldn't be nil in GTT:OnShow |
| 03:50.52 | Ackis | *nod* |
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| 04:30.49 | Tewan | Hnn. |
| 04:30.54 | Tewan | Hmm, too. |
| 04:31.11 | Tewan | Anyonek now of a good alternative to Quartz's buff tracker? |
| 04:32.21 | Tewan | This: http://tewan.info/quartz.jpg |
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| 04:45.33 | Guillotine | Elkano's Buff Bars? |
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| 04:59.14 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I use EBB and quite like it |
| 04:59.48 | ZorbaTHut | I used Quartz for a bit, but I ended up dumping it in favor of EBB+Pitbull |
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| 05:03.50 | VonhintenHOME` | I've been using Satrina's Buff Frames and I like it a lot |
| 05:04.19 | VonhintenHOME` | I didn't like the text listing of buffs |
| 05:04.46 | VonhintenHOME` | SBF can do buffs like WoW, only with all of EBB's filtering/catagorizing |
| 05:08.35 | ZorbaTHut | whereas I really like the text listing because I find it easier to recognize certain buffs ;) |
| 05:09.01 | ZorbaTHut | hmm, I wonder if EBB has an option to categorize buffs by class |
| 05:31.49 | Antiarc | So, who'll be at Blizzcon this year? |
| 05:31.53 | Antiarc | cuz I will :D |
| 05:33.13 | Cairenn | I will |
| 05:34.33 | ZorbaTHut | I won't, I couldn't get a ticket :( |
| 05:34.57 | Ackis | grats Antiarc |
| 05:34.58 | Ackis | I won't be |
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| 06:07.54 | Guest40258 | ns ghost Shirik |
| 06:08.54 | daev | Is there a /script command to leave a battleground? |
| 06:09.21 | Shirik | yes |
| 06:09.50 | daev | is it /script LeaveBattlefield() ? |
| 06:10.27 | Shirik | !api LeaveBattlefield |
| 06:10.28 | lua_bot | LeaveBattlefield: Exits the current battleground (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/LeaveBattlefield) |
| 06:10.32 | Shirik | look it up |
| 06:11.27 | daev | thanks :P |
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| 06:36.42 | |Jelly| | And Shirik with the RTFM ... half an hour ago |
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| 06:41.12 | Shirik | so I'm updating my blackberry software |
| 06:41.22 | Shirik | I especially like the step that says "Overwriting device ROM..." |
| 06:41.39 | Spellbinder | rofl |
| 06:41.42 | Matsy | "Poof, battery failure" |
| 06:41.43 | Arrowmaster | thats not a rom |
| 06:41.44 | Corrodias | the definition of read-only has really deteriorated over the years. |
| 06:41.45 | Shirik | I don't see any chips coming through the wire, though. I mean, I would expect the cord has to stretch a bit to fit or something |
| 06:41.47 | Spellbinder | thats an awsome rom |
| 06:42.50 | Spellbinder | i once asked a guy in a computer store if they had primary memory, and he went like, "what like a harddrive you mean?" |
| 06:42.50 | Matsy | Maybe it's EEPROM. |
| 06:43.06 | Shirik | I'm sure it is |
| 06:43.09 | Shirik | but that's not ROM |
| 06:43.13 | Corrodias | "primary memory"... hmm |
| 06:43.16 | Corrodias | never heard that term before |
| 06:43.18 | Matsy | Haha, thats true |
| 06:43.23 | Spellbinder | thats RAM |
| 06:43.23 | Matsy | Yeah, and the terminition is a bit weird |
| 06:43.32 | Matsy | I'd be confused with the term "primary memory" too |
| 06:43.35 | Corrodias | you explaining it doesn't change the fact that i've never heard of it before. |
| 06:43.37 | Shirik | Well technically anything is RAM |
| 06:43.39 | Shirik | except a tape drive |
| 06:43.40 | Spellbinder | oh please |
| 06:44.00 | Spellbinder | RAm is primary, HD and ROMS and such are secondary |
| 06:44.12 | Matsy | Results 1 - 10 of about 87,200 for "primary memory". (0.19 seconds) |
| 06:44.21 | Corrodias | thanks for explaining it again. i reiterate that it doesn't change the past, though... |
| 06:44.21 | Matsy | :( |
| 06:44.24 | Shirik | I disagree, Spellbinder |
| 06:44.28 | Spellbinder | ok |
| 06:44.34 | Shirik | The very first thing every computer reads is not RAM |
| 06:44.40 | Shirik | at startup |
| 06:44.41 | Corrodias | BIOS, yeah? |
| 06:44.42 | Spellbinder | true |
| 06:44.49 | Spellbinder | but is that a memory? |
| 06:44.52 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 06:45.00 | Arrowmaster | bios is eeprom |
| 06:45.04 | Shirik | Furthermore, by the definition of "RAM" literally everything in your computer that stores information is RAM these days |
| 06:45.05 | Corrodias | the BIOS has some firmware connected, yeah |
| 06:45.42 | Shirik | I personally just don't like the term |
| 06:45.50 | Shirik | but it made sense when it was coined |
| 06:46.22 | Spellbinder | also i meant dvd-rom and cd-rom |
| 06:46.26 | Arrowmaster | although bios is actually the software that would be on the cmos |
| 06:46.30 | Spellbinder | not rom as such |
| 06:46.32 | Shirik | And, for the record |
| 06:46.37 | Arrowmaster | which is a type of nand |
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| 06:46.40 | Shirik | "RAM" as you are thinking is not a primary memory |
| 06:46.45 | Shirik | nor is a hard drive a secondary memory |
| 06:46.48 | Shirik | you're off by one |
| 06:46.48 | Spellbinder | http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_primary_memory_and_secondary_memory |
| 06:47.10 | Shirik | RAM is, and always has been, a secondary memory. Hard drives, CD drives, etc., have always been tertiary |
| 06:47.26 | Matsy | Isnt CMOS a type of ram? |
| 06:47.32 | Matsy | At least, from what I know. |
| 06:47.35 | Shirik | Most RAM is CMOS technology |
| 06:47.42 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 06:47.45 | Corrodias | wonders why Spellbinder is linking that article. |
| 06:48.03 | Shirik | just about everything in a computer is CMOS these days, except maybe SRAM |
| 06:48.13 | Shirik | but even SRAM is going to FETs these days |
| 06:48.16 | Spellbinder | "The primary memory itself is implemented by two types of memory technologies. The first is called Random Access Memory (RAM) and the other is read only memory (ROM)", "The secondary memory is usually available in the form of floppy disk storage media, hard disk, CD, DVD, Pen drive (i.e. Mass storage devices), memory chips" |
| 06:48.31 | Shirik | I do not agree with that statement |
| 06:48.35 | Spellbinder | k |
| 06:48.37 | Shirik | And I find it appealing to customers |
| 06:48.43 | Spellbinder | i am maybe too oldschool |
| 06:48.52 | Shirik | Old school or not, RAM has never been "primary memory" |
| 06:49.08 | Shirik | you cannot use RAM directly, therefore it cannot be primary |
| 06:49.10 | Spellbinder | damn all my education down the drain |
| 06:49.21 | Arrowmaster | i still have a computer where the cache is on replaceable chips just like ram |
| 06:49.31 | Shirik | I think I might at my house too :) |
| 06:49.42 | Shirik | I'd have to check |
| 06:49.44 | Arrowmaster | Pentium1 |
| 06:49.48 | Shirik | oh mine was a 486 |
| 06:49.59 | Shirik | we skipped all the odd numbers |
| 06:50.02 | Arrowmaster | yeah 386 and 486 would be teh same way |
| 06:50.06 | Shirik | 486, pentium 2, pentium 4 |
| 06:50.11 | Matsy | I still have a 286 around here. |
| 06:50.19 | Matsy | It's so fast |
| 06:50.49 | Matsy | 6mhz |
| 06:50.52 | Arrowmaster | from where i am sitting right now there is the athlon xp i am using under the table, a p1 also under the table, a p2 and a p3 on the table |
| 06:51.09 | Shirik | It's kinda scary when I think the hard drive in my 486 computer was "massive" |
| 06:51.17 | Arrowmaster | lol same |
| 06:51.19 | Shirik | So massive the windows 3.11 that was running on it couldn't handle anything bigger |
| 06:51.23 | Shirik | 512MB was its limit |
| 06:51.28 | Matsy | What. |
| 06:51.31 | Matsy | 512MB hard disk? |
| 06:51.35 | Matsy | Mine had a 20mb :< |
| 06:51.35 | Shirik | yup |
| 06:51.40 | Shirik | it was pro |
| 06:51.42 | Arrowmaster | people thought i was weird in 2004 when i built a computer with a "massive" 1 terabyte of harddrive space |
| 06:51.50 | Shirik | And now I have more RAM than that |
| 06:51.55 | Shirik | not only that, I have 8 times that |
| 06:51.57 | Shirik | in a laptop |
| 06:52.07 | Matsy | Yeah >_> |
| 06:52.26 | Spellbinder | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_storage |
| 06:52.56 | Shirik | Funny you should link that, Spellbinder |
| 06:52.58 | Shirik | "Primary storage, presently known as memory, is the only one directly accessible to the CPU. The CPU continuously reads instructions stored there and executes them as required. Any data actively operated on is also stored there in uniform manner." |
| 06:53.10 | Shirik | Please show me the nearest computer that directly accesses RAM from the CPU |
| 06:53.23 | Shirik | that is, executes instructions in RAM |
| 06:53.45 | Arrowmaster | l1 cache is a type of ram! |
| 06:53.53 | Shirik | Yeah, a hard drive is a type of RAM too |
| 06:54.09 | Shirik | as I said earlier, the only thing that "isn't" RAM is a tape drive |
| 06:54.13 | Shirik | which nobody uses anymore anyway |
| 06:54.21 | Arrowmaster | i know places that do |
| 06:54.25 | Shirik | really? |
| 06:54.28 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 06:54.35 | Matsy | .. Yeah |
| 06:54.40 | Matsy | A lot of places still use them. |
| 06:54.42 | Arrowmaster | my moms work still uses a tape drive for daily/weakly backups |
| 06:54.43 | Shirik | I would have thought it is too dangerous to keep using |
| 06:54.56 | Shirik | especially for backups |
| 06:55.03 | Shirik | because you have to spool it like once a week or so |
| 06:55.14 | Shirik | or else the static in the tape will destroy itself over time |
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| 06:55.40 | Matsy | Almost all television companies here use taperobots for their backups. |
| 06:55.46 | Arrowmaster | well they only have so many tapes and just write over the oldest one |
| 06:55.55 | Shirik | I see so they're constantly being worked |
| 06:56.45 | Matsy | They do upgrade their tapes every now and then |
| 06:56.59 | Matsy | They use IBM 3592 for a lot of tapes already. |
| 06:57.05 | Matsy | = 1TB of space. |
| 06:57.11 | Shirik | I feel a lot safer with DVDs et al |
| 06:57.12 | Shirik | :) |
| 06:57.17 | Matsy | Yeah ;p |
| 06:57.25 | Shirik | I feel even safer with a second off-site server, which is my real solution :P |
| 06:57.26 | Matsy | They aren't as fast, though |
| 06:57.30 | Arrowmaster | dvds are not a form of long term backup |
| 06:57.38 | Shirik | why not? |
| 06:57.58 | Arrowmaster | because the ink in writable dvds breaks down over time |
| 06:58.12 | Arrowmaster | unlike pressed dvds |
| 06:58.15 | Shirik | ic |
| 06:58.28 | Shirik | I never bothered getting into that technology base |
| 06:58.32 | Shirik | I'll stick with transistor theory tyvm |
| 06:58.53 | Shirik | but now that we have memristor technology within our grasp /drool |
| 06:59.02 | Arrowmaster | you can make dvds last a long time with proper storage but it will eventually become unreadable |
| 06:59.43 | Arrowmaster | really cheap cd-r's could die in a year |
| 07:00.26 | Shirik | once we get away from the transistor, a lot of things are going to change I think |
| 07:00.27 | Arrowmaster | if you had poor storage too, such as leaving them somewhere that sunlight would reach through a window |
| 07:00.35 | Shirik | especially with regards to RAM, which is incredibly inefficient right now |
| 07:00.44 | Shirik | but in all honesty, we might just see hard drives disappear |
| 07:00.49 | Shirik | that will be interesting to see |
| 07:01.00 | Matsy | ... |
| 07:01.14 | Matsy | Are you pointing at the fact that we'll be using the internet for all our applications? |
| 07:01.18 | Shirik | no |
| 07:01.27 | Shirik | I'm saying effectively our permanent storage will be RAM |
| 07:01.28 | Matsy | Then how can hard drives disappear :< |
| 07:01.46 | Matsy | Well, Flash drives. |
| 07:01.58 | Shirik | flash drives are still transistor technology |
| 07:02.10 | Matsy | I know. |
| 07:02.28 | Shirik | point is we have to get away from transistors |
| 07:02.38 | Shirik | except maybe for logic applications |
| 07:02.45 | Arrowmaster | theres multiple mass storage technologies in development that would make the classic magnetic disk harddrive and removable flash memory obsolete |
| 07:02.47 | Shirik | i.e., cpu |
| 07:03.25 | Arrowmaster | holographic storage has been in development and working for a long time |
| 07:07.24 | Shirik | if developed properly (note: beyond our grasp for right now) memristor technology can be faster than a fet-capacitor circuit for general memory use, and it can also hold a state (which cannot be done by DRAM currently) |
| 07:07.24 | Shirik | thus, your RAM can become your hard drive |
| 07:07.26 | Shirik | imagine if the OS never had to perform swaps anymore |
| 07:07.28 | Shirik | a context switch is literally the amount of time to change the base address |
| 07:07.30 | Shirik | and nothing more |
| 07:07.34 | Shirik | But maybe I'm too hopeful, too :) |
| 07:07.38 | Shirik | I will admit I've been one to be too excited about technology advancements in the past |
| 07:07.44 | Shirik | woot, blackberry upgraded |
| 07:10.26 | Matsy | Hmm |
| 07:10.39 | Matsy | Has anyone here tried the i7 branch of processors? |
| 07:10.49 | Arrowmaster | some have |
| 07:11.11 | Arrowmaster | ive been wanting to build an i7 system for my new desktop |
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| 07:15.01 | Shirik | Ackis: You were the one with the blackberry? |
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| 07:22.31 | durcyn | i'm running a 940 on my gaming rig, matsy, it's pretty nice |
| 07:24.38 | Matsy | What setup do you have, though? |
| 07:24.45 | Matsy | Like, motherboard / ram |
| 07:26.13 | Shirik | I got it |
| 07:26.24 | Shirik | someone should make a 486-compatible Pentium 4 emulator |
| 07:26.40 | Shirik | that is, some kind of VM that will translate P4 opcodes that are unsupported into 486 equivalents |
| 07:26.50 | Shirik | Then, we should run WoW on it |
| 07:27.09 | Shirik | and then go to dalaran! |
| 07:27.10 | Shirik | yes |
| 07:27.55 | Arrowmaster | 6gb is common for i7 |
| 07:28.26 | Matsy | Lol |
| 07:28.39 | Matsy | The 486 doesn't even have SSE2 :< |
| 07:29.04 | Matsy | It'd be insanely hard (if not impossible?) to translate that. |
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| 07:30.43 | Arrowmaster | everything before the p4 doesnt have sse2 |
| 07:30.47 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 07:31.31 | Arrowmaster | but sse2 isnt required by anything except osx |
| 07:32.19 | Matsy | It's used by a lot of other things, though |
| 07:32.52 | Arrowmaster | its not required by most though |
| 07:33.19 | Matsy | Games use it quite often, really |
| 07:33.25 | Arrowmaster | they dont require it though |
| 07:33.34 | Arrowmaster | the athlon xp does not have sse2 |
| 07:33.41 | Matsy | I wouldn't want to play a game without it. |
| 07:34.11 | Arrowmaster | i dont know of anything that would refuse to run because i dont have sse2 |
| 07:34.39 | Matsy | Anything based on the CryEngine / Unreal 3 engine |
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| 07:35.08 | Arrowmaster | did farcry1 use the cryengine? |
| 07:35.11 | Matsy | These games do run without SSE2. |
| 07:35.28 | Matsy | But.. heh |
| 07:35.40 | Matsy | It's like using Windows Vista on a 486 |
| 07:37.44 | Matsy | Oh lol |
| 07:37.49 | Matsy | I didn't install the nVidia drivers yet. |
| 07:38.09 | Matsy | That should improve my performance >>_ |
| 07:41.00 | Shirik | wrote a program that requires SSE4 :( |
| 07:41.20 | Shirik | one of my papers relied on SSE4 |
| 07:41.30 | Matsy | What did they do? |
| 07:41.36 | Matsy | HDTV processing? ;p |
| 07:41.44 | Shirik | though I think I had a line on it saying that it should be trivial to pull it down to an older SSE set |
| 07:41.53 | Shirik | infrared dot detection |
| 07:42.01 | Shirik | from a video capture device |
| 07:42.17 | Shirik | It wasn't so much about "doing it" but rather "doing it at extremely high speed" |
| 07:43.08 | Matsy | What instructions did you use for that, though. |
| 07:43.34 | Matsy | Because, it seems like overkill >_> |
| 07:45.07 | Shirik | Actually it wasn't overkill believe it or not |
| 07:45.11 | Shirik | it was for a real problem |
| 07:45.23 | Shirik | but anyway, the SSE4 instruction I relied on I believe was PTEST |
| 07:45.25 | Shirik | !g PTEST |
| 07:45.26 | batbot | Shirik: P Test <http://www.wku.edu/~david.neal/statistics/hyptest/ptest.html> |
| 07:45.34 | Shirik | ok you suck |
| 07:45.41 | Matsy | I know PTEST ;p |
| 07:45.58 | Shirik | Is that SSE4? |
| 07:46.02 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 07:46.21 | Shirik | That would have been the only instruction then |
| 07:46.33 | Matsy | Lol, 128 bit registers. |
| 07:48.16 | Shirik | here we are |
| 07:48.22 | Shirik | the general optimized loop was |
| 07:50.00 | Shirik | MOVDQU, MOVDQA, PMAXUB, PCMPEQB, PTEST, JC. In certain situations this would continue with PTEST, JC, JE, PEXTRB, PEXTRB, ADD, PEXTRB, ADD, CMP, JLE 5 times (each time might be skipped based on the result of the PTEST at the top of the iteration) |
| 07:50.08 | Shirik | those are the only instructions I used |
| 07:50.34 | Nechckn | For 40-50, mostly solo WAR, would Arms be better than Fury? |
| 07:51.16 | Shirik | With some extra work, the initial MOVDQU could be turned into MOVDQA, but my paper left that issue to the reader |
| 07:51.20 | Shirik | (or for a future paper) |
| 07:52.22 | Shirik | the problem was I was processing 5 24-bit pixels at a time, so 15 bytes at a time |
| 07:52.31 | Shirik | so the memory was packed and misaligned |
| 07:52.41 | Shirik | "If memory is processed fifteen bytes at a time, the data must be retrieved using unaligned instructions (such as Intel’s MOVDQU). This instruction will not fault due to unaligned access (including access across cache line boundaries), but it has a performance penalty. It would be preferable if the programmer can fully align the data with padding which can guarantee 128-bit aligned access. In that case faster MOVD |
| 07:53.11 | Matsy | Ouch. |
| 07:53.39 | Shirik | Even with MOVDQU I was showing a 5x performance increase from the compiler's generated code |
| 07:53.43 | Shirik | which was the purpose of my paper |
| 07:53.54 | Shirik | basically that compilers suck at optimizing video processing applications |
| 07:54.10 | Matsy | Wasnt that a general fact, even before your paper? ;p |
| 07:54.30 | Shirik | my point was to prove it, or more directly, to prove that the programmer should be aware of this and not rely on the compiler |
| 07:54.54 | Shirik | sadly, I think most people currently rely on the compiler to do all the optimization and have no idea of the internal workings of a computer |
| 07:55.04 | Matsy | I believe every good video codec thinks about this. |
| 07:55.11 | Matsy | Which is why they're good codecs, haha |
| 07:55.21 | Shirik | perhaps :) |
| 07:55.35 | Shirik | but there are a lot of other applications out there that don't think about this |
| 07:55.38 | Matsy | Because, the SSE opcodes are just BEGGING for video processing. |
| 07:56.05 | Matsy | Like MPSADBW. |
| 07:56.14 | Shirik | The issue that prompted me writing this paper wasn't exactly directly related to video processing, actually |
| 07:56.19 | Shirik | it was for a mouse driver |
| 07:56.22 | Shirik | or rather, a mouse emulator |
| 07:56.23 | Syzgyn | The downside of driving a cloth top car in Atlanta: Had my backpack jacked right out of my car. |
| 07:56.27 | Shirik | but it was in fact vision processing |
| 07:56.32 | Matsy | A mouse emulator? |
| 07:56.32 | Matsy | What |
| 07:56.58 | Shirik | I developed a neat little tool that uses a camera to detect where a pen is in relation to the screen, and turn it into mouse coordinates |
| 07:57.14 | Matsy | As in, on a touch screen? |
| 07:57.22 | Matsy | nvm |
| 07:57.23 | Shirik | to make it /like/ a touch screen, yes |
| 07:57.26 | Shirik | but it's a normal screen |
| 07:57.30 | Matsy | Yeah ;p |
| 07:57.34 | Matsy | Forgot to read the camera part, haha |
| 07:57.38 | Shirik | point is, it's a $40 alternative to buying an expensive touchscreen |
| 07:57.49 | Matsy | Uh. |
| 07:57.54 | Matsy | But, wouldn't be super unreliable |
| 07:57.58 | Matsy | And, slow |
| 07:58.01 | Matsy | Compared to a real touchscreen? |
| 07:58.05 | Shirik | believe it or not |
| 07:58.10 | Shirik | I had some artists use it |
| 07:58.16 | Shirik | when I was developing this I was working for Crayola |
| 07:58.21 | Shirik | so we have a lot of artists there :) |
| 07:58.22 | _rane | is LibSimpleOptions-1.0 any good for implementing a simple settings interface for an addon? use of blizzard's options interface is preferred anyway, right? |
| 07:58.33 | Shirik | And they absolutely loved it |
| 07:58.40 | Shirik | it was more responsive than you might think |
| 07:58.42 | Matsy | I'm amazed. |
| 07:58.47 | Shirik | BUT |
| 07:58.52 | Matsy | Here it comes ;p |
| 07:58.52 | Shirik | Until I went to SSE |
| 07:58.59 | Shirik | I was getting maybe 3 dots a second |
| 07:59.12 | Shirik | which makes some really bad curves :) |
| 07:59.19 | Matsy | ... |
| 07:59.21 | Matsy | Yeah >_> |
| 07:59.23 | Matsy | 3 dots a second |
| 07:59.28 | Shirik | When I switched over to SSE, though, It was closer to 30 |
| 07:59.33 | Matsy | Thats even slower than paint on MS Dos. |
| 07:59.36 | Shirik | which, admittedly, was the frame limit on the camera |
| 07:59.42 | Matsy | Uh. |
| 07:59.52 | Matsy | But, did SSE limit it to 30? |
| 07:59.56 | Matsy | Or, did the frame limit do that? |
| 08:00.00 | Shirik | doubtful, I was only eating about 4% of the CPU |
| 08:00.03 | Matsy | Like, could you have more if you had a better camrera? |
| 08:00.04 | Fisker- | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:00.08 | Fisker- | secrets |
| 08:00.10 | Fisker- | reveal them now |
| 08:00.21 | Shirik | Now, before the whole 3 dots per second issue |
| 08:00.21 | Matsy | Fisker-, you're so random >_> |
| 08:00.29 | Shirik | I thought the application went into an infinite loop |
| 08:00.33 | Fisker- | naw Matsy |
| 08:00.39 | Fisker- | i want to know how to make my balls bigger |
| 08:00.43 | Fisker- | but Shirik won't tell |
| 08:00.45 | Matsy | LOL |
| 08:00.46 | Matsy | What |
| 08:00.48 | Shirik | but that was because I was using a 1024x768 resolution |
| 08:00.49 | Shirik | and |
| 08:00.49 | Matsy | It's STILL about that? |
| 08:00.59 | Shirik | decided to sort the pixels' intensity via bubble sort |
| 08:01.06 | Shirik | that was quite possibly the stupidest decision I've ever made |
| 08:01.06 | Matsy | what |
| 08:01.08 | Matsy | bubble sort? |
| 08:01.11 | Matsy | HAHAHA |
| 08:01.13 | Shirik | I was being lazy! |
| 08:01.17 | Matsy | Sorry for laughing :< |
| 08:01.37 | Shirik | Switched over to merge sort and it obviously became blazing fast :) |
| 08:01.57 | Shirik | (Merge sort offered better performance than quicksort due to the fact that pixels would tend to be clustered together) |
| 08:02.57 | Shirik | It was funny because I decided to go to lunch when I "Determined" the application locked up |
| 08:03.02 | Shirik | I come back an hour later and it finally hit my breakpoint |
| 08:03.27 | Matsy | What version of quicksort did you use, though? |
| 08:03.31 | batrick | Shirik: that's pretty cool :) |
| 08:03.43 | Shirik | I didn't really use any |
| 08:03.48 | Matsy | No I mean |
| 08:03.50 | Matsy | When you compared it |
| 08:03.51 | Shirik | I just came to the conclusion after a logical analysis |
| 08:04.00 | Shirik | I didn't compare, I just thought about the fundamentals of the algorithm |
| 08:04.06 | Matsy | Ah. |
| 08:04.08 | Shirik | mergesort shines when it's used on a set that's already sorted |
| 08:04.24 | Shirik | and in this case the set is in fact already mostly sorted |
| 08:05.07 | Shirik | Mergesort has a best-case performance of O(n), whereas quicksort's best-case performance is O(nlogn) |
| 08:05.11 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 08:05.47 | Matsy | Isnt quicksort O(n^2)? |
| 08:05.55 | Shirik | rarely |
| 08:06.01 | Matsy | Hmm. |
| 08:06.07 | Shirik | It really is a O(nlogn) algorithm |
| 08:06.12 | Shirik | as is mergesort |
| 08:06.21 | Matsy | I can see your point then. |
| 08:06.39 | Shirik | for general use, quicksort is better |
| 08:06.43 | Shirik | but this was a special case |
| 08:06.55 | Shirik | (once again, the programmer has to be aware of use cases and select accordingly!) |
| 08:06.56 | Fisker- | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:07.25 | Shirik | I am actually rather depressed at some of the resposnes I get from developers that use the same thinking for every problem they come across |
| 08:07.35 | Shirik | without thinking of the problem domain or use case |
| 08:08.21 | Matsy | Well. |
| 08:08.28 | Matsy | In some situation, problems need to be solved in a timely manner too |
| 08:08.36 | Shirik | true |
| 08:08.38 | Matsy | *situations |
| 08:08.50 | Matsy | So, not everyone has the time to implement this super-optimized algorithm. |
| 08:09.02 | Matsy | So, they use the "common" way. |
| 08:09.43 | Matsy | It's more fun to optimize it, though ;p |
| 08:09.59 | Matsy | Oh. I'm going to have to reboot. |
| 08:10.05 | Matsy | Drivers are installed |
| 08:10.13 | Matsy | Brb! |
| 08:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb|2 (n=caleb@dsl4E5C0447.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:11.53 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, go ahead |
| 08:11.58 | Shirik | you |
| 08:12.01 | Shirik | are so mean to me |
| 08:12.09 | Shirik | disappearing in my time of need |
| 08:12.21 | Shirik | random question, first: What camera do you have? |
| 08:12.24 | Thunder_Child | my weekends are busier than my weekdays....go figure |
| 08:12.39 | Thunder_Child | Canon 450D i think |
| 08:12.45 | Thunder_Child | rebel xti |
| 08:12.45 | Shirik | what's the battery life like? |
| 08:13.09 | Thunder_Child | very very long |
| 08:13.12 | Shirik | I come from the realm of a battery lasting a month |
| 08:13.16 | Shirik | I don't think you can compete with that |
| 08:13.21 | Shirik | so I'm just wondering how long |
| 08:13.22 | Thunder_Child | it depends |
| 08:13.28 | Shirik | daily charging? |
| 08:13.37 | Thunder_Child | 1+ months taking shots how often? |
| 08:13.43 | Shirik | quite often |
| 08:13.52 | Shirik | keep in mind a film camera needs significantly less battery power :) |
| 08:14.08 | Thunder_Child | i charge it, leave it alone for 4 months then take 1000+ shots before needing to be recharged |
| 08:14.26 | Shirik | so I could at least go a whole day without needing to charge it |
| 08:14.37 | Thunder_Child | yes, and thats in raw dont forget |
| 08:14.46 | Shirik | perfect lead in to my next question |
| 08:14.46 | Thunder_Child | longer in jpg i think |
| 08:14.56 | Shirik | why the hell would I capture in raw+jpg? |
| 08:14.59 | Shirik | as opposed to raw |
| 08:15.11 | Arrowmaster | capture in bmp |
| 08:15.24 | Thunder_Child | because converting can be troublesome, it takes time and if you are not at your computer a bitch to get the conversion software |
| 08:15.33 | Thunder_Child | so it can come in handy |
| 08:15.45 | Shirik | but you're significantly reducing the number of shots you can take, huh? |
| 08:15.49 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 08:15.53 | Thunder_Child | not significant |
| 08:15.58 | Shirik | Reviewing the camera I'm looking at, I see a single raw shot will be about 25MB |
| 08:16.26 | Shirik | I forgot the size of raw+jpg |
| 08:16.29 | Arrowmaster | just get a 16gb sdhc card |
| 08:16.46 | Shirik | ok next question |
| 08:16.55 | Thunder_Child | i have an 8gb card, i can take ~800 pics. if i go to highest quality jpeg i can do 9999 |
| 08:17.01 | Thunder_Child | 800 in raw* |
| 08:17.08 | Shirik | Canon's lenses seem to have some crazy acronyms |
| 08:17.19 | Shirik | some of them say stuff like f/2.8L... what is the L? |
| 08:17.28 | Shirik | I think IS means Image Stabilization. What is II? |
| 08:17.41 | Thunder_Child | i lied, 1800 shots |
| 08:17.50 | Arrowmaster | i think i can only get like 1000 pics on my canon at highest quality jpeg |
| 08:17.58 | Shirik | I was planning on going with about 8GB card |
| 08:18.08 | Arrowmaster | i think i have a 4gb |
| 08:18.09 | Shirik | lua> 8 * 1024 / 30 |
| 08:18.10 | lua_bot | Shirik: 273.06666666667 |
| 08:18.18 | Shirik | 275 pictures is more than enough I think |
| 08:18.24 | Shirik | considering I'm used to no more than 30 |
| 08:18.29 | Thunder_Child | new tech is making a new SD card become the pro defacto |
| 08:18.38 | Thunder_Child | it has massive space and good xfer speeds |
| 08:19.00 | Thunder_Child | II? 2? |
| 08:19.03 | Arrowmaster | you dont want to know how much space my first digital camera that cost $500 could hold |
| 08:19.05 | Thunder_Child | linky? |
| 08:19.09 | Shirik | Maybe it's 2 :/ |
| 08:19.28 | Thunder_Child | also, L is the pro line of lenses for canon |
| 08:19.31 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin_ (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 08:19.34 | Shirik | This is the "L" that I'm thinking about getting. I just want to know what that L means. I love that it's 2.8 all the way through though. |
| 08:19.35 | Shirik | http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=149&modelid=8503 |
| 08:19.41 | Thunder_Child | see above |
| 08:19.59 | Shirik | oh |
| 08:20.08 | Shirik | and II is here: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=149&modelid=7442 |
| 08:20.23 | Thunder_Child | ya, that would be 2 |
| 08:20.31 | Shirik | ok :P |
| 08:20.40 | Thunder_Child | since the other 'numbers' mean something a 2 could be confusing in that context |
| 08:20.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Matsy (n=Matsy@a143167.upc-a.chello.nl) |
| 08:20.48 | Shirik | makes sense |
| 08:20.53 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 08:20.55 | Shirik | so L is their pro line huh |
| 08:20.58 | Thunder_Child | yep |
| 08:21.02 | Thunder_Child | the really expensive ones |
| 08:21.13 | Shirik | Well I saw that, considering it's about a $1000 difference |
| 08:21.21 | Shirik | but having f/2.8 all the way through is really tempting |
| 08:21.22 | Matsy | What did I miss! :< |
| 08:21.31 | Thunder_Child | true |
| 08:21.36 | Shirik | I believe that's teh same lens my coworkere has |
| 08:21.41 | Shirik | I need to check with him |
| 08:21.47 | Matsy | Oh. |
| 08:22.35 | Shirik | it really scares the hell out of me that they have a 28-300mm lens |
| 08:22.43 | jnwhiteh | the L series are amazing |
| 08:23.00 | Thunder_Child | sadly dpreview hasnt reviewed that many lenes |
| 08:23.03 | Thunder_Child | lenses* |
| 08:23.06 | Thunder_Child | http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/ |
| 08:23.16 | Shirik | Well I haven't actually found that lens at any shops either |
| 08:23.59 | Thunder_Child | http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/264304-USA/Canon_8014A002_Zoom_Wide_Angle_Telephoto_EF.html |
| 08:24.00 | Matsy | http://www.wolframalpha.com/ <-- What the. |
| 08:24.07 | Shirik | hey, they reviewed my camera though |
| 08:24.17 | Thunder_Child | welcome to a while ago Matsy ^^ |
| 08:24.19 | Shirik | I'm looking at grabbing http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5dmarkii/ |
| 08:24.24 | Matsy | I just saw it, Thunder |
| 08:24.26 | Matsy | Its sick |
| 08:24.27 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, see my link? |
| 08:25.53 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, that means you are going to have to check and make sure that all lenses you get are full frame |
| 08:25.59 | Shirik | yeah |
| 08:26.01 | Thunder_Child | since the 5d is |
| 08:26.47 | jnwhiteh | what does full frame really get you? |
| 08:27.22 | Thunder_Child | in regards to what? |
| 08:28.17 | jnwhiteh | just in general, people seem to want full frame |
| 08:28.46 | Shirik | true wide-angle, better contrast and especially low light response |
| 08:29.04 | Shirik | these are all mostly side effects, really |
| 08:29.12 | Shirik | but they are the benefits |
| 08:29.59 | Thunder_Child | and you are going to need a seperate flash |
| 08:30.04 | Shirik | yah |
| 08:30.27 | Thunder_Child | i want an external but the damn things are expensive |
| 08:30.33 | Shirik | I have an estimate of $4k-$5k right now |
| 08:30.37 | Shirik | depending on which lens I go with |
| 08:30.55 | Shirik | I can cheap out and get the 24-85 f/3.5-4.5, or I can instead go with the 24-70 f/2.8 |
| 08:31.52 | Industrial | How do i get the name of the frame under the cursor again? |
| 08:32.51 | Matsy | /script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage( GetMouseFocus():GetName() ); |
| 08:32.56 | Matsy | I believe that's the one |
| 08:33.05 | Industrial | thanks |
| 08:33.17 | Shirik | that will work for any frame that can have mouse focus, yes |
| 08:33.23 | Shirik | I don't actually think that's how devtools does it |
| 08:33.32 | Matsy | I dont know about it :< |
| 08:33.39 | Shirik | but to do it the way devtools does would require a ton of code, wouldn't fit in a line |
| 08:33.56 | Shirik | I believe devtools actually enumerates the frames and checks their boundaries |
| 08:34.07 | Shirik | then compares it against the mouse position |
| 08:35.15 | Industrial | oh right devtools |
| 08:35.18 | Industrial | *enables* |
| 08:35.41 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3260&navigator=2 |
| 08:35.44 | Shirik | dtframestack |
| 08:36.08 | Shirik | man |
| 08:36.16 | Shirik | you not giving me enough time to read these reviews! |
| 08:36.21 | Shirik | too fast for me |
| 08:36.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (n=Jamash@75-25-130-215.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 08:36.32 | Thunder_Child | what revies? |
| 08:36.35 | Thunder_Child | reviews* |
| 08:36.37 | jnwhiteh | Thunder_Child: that lens is hot. |
| 08:36.54 | Shirik | looking at dpreview's review on the 5dm2 |
| 08:37.03 | Thunder_Child | i have a sigma lens, they do good stuff |
| 08:37.13 | Shirik | yeah I've heard good things about sigma |
| 08:38.00 | Shirik | I dunno, 60 might be a bit too short for my purposes |
| 08:38.06 | Shirik | 70 was already pushing it |
| 08:38.08 | Thunder_Child | ok, get http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3349&navigator=3 |
| 08:38.12 | Thunder_Child | only 38K |
| 08:38.30 | Shirik | holy shit |
| 08:38.38 | Shirik | how much does that thing weigh |
| 08:38.52 | Thunder_Child | Weight 15,700g/553.7 oz. |
| 08:38.52 | Shirik | lol "minimum aperture: f/22" |
| 08:39.14 | Thunder_Child | heh "For the convenience of the photographer, focusing distances and focal lengths can be viewed on the lens` built-in LCD panel. " |
| 08:39.32 | Shirik | oh they mean most closed |
| 08:39.33 | Shirik | ok |
| 08:39.37 | Shirik | it's actually f/2.8 |
| 08:39.40 | Thunder_Child | would it be ok if the minimum was higher? http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3264&navigator=2 |
| 08:39.46 | Thunder_Child | ya |
| 08:39.49 | Shirik | I thought they meant widest |
| 08:39.50 | Thunder_Child | which is amazing |
| 08:39.56 | Shirik | yeah it is |
| 08:40.26 | Shirik | what is 553oz |
| 08:40.27 | Shirik | in lbs |
| 08:40.35 | Shirik | 16 oz/lb? |
| 08:40.38 | Shirik | lua> 553/16 |
| 08:40.38 | lua_bot | Shirik: 34.5625 |
| 08:40.50 | Matsy | 34 pounds 9 ounces. |
| 08:40.51 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, this however is the largest that i know of http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/pictures-massive-canon-1200-5-6l-usm-telephoto-lens-costs-99-000-used |
| 08:41.10 | Shirik | I think I've seen this before :) |
| 08:41.14 | jnwhiteh | jeersus |
| 08:41.20 | Shirik | However, my friend has brought a new meaning to "supermacro" lately |
| 08:41.32 | Shirik | he taped two lenses together somehow |
| 08:41.35 | Shirik | didn't really inquire how |
| 08:41.50 | Shirik | and his depth of field became practically milimeters |
| 08:41.53 | Thunder_Child | a focal multiplier would work |
| 08:42.35 | Shirik | so |
| 08:42.50 | Shirik | can you combine that 1000mm sigma lens with a 2x? |
| 08:42.53 | Shirik | :) |
| 08:43.07 | Thunder_Child | yes... |
| 08:43.16 | Shirik | Maybe I want to see the threads from the baseball |
| 08:43.48 | Thunder_Child | it would have horrid vignetting i might imagine |
| 08:44.07 | Shirik | you can correct that ^_^ |
| 08:44.15 | Thunder_Child | digitally |
| 08:46.54 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, interesting.... http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS5DMarkII/page26.asp scroll down till you get to "Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8L USM fall off thumbnails' |
| 08:47.08 | Thunder_Child | both lens and camera you are thinking about |
| 08:54.42 | Shirik | that's pretty severe |
| 08:54.51 | Thunder_Child | yep |
| 08:55.03 | Shirik | surprising really; fortunately they say it's almost identical to the original 5d |
| 08:55.09 | Shirik | I'm pretty sure my coworker has the original 5d with that lens |
| 08:55.13 | Shirik | I'll have to ask him about that |
| 08:55.18 | Thunder_Child | though it did say that because canon knows exactly what it is the software can reverse it |
| 08:55.43 | Fisker- | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:55.46 | Thunder_Child | "Whether light falloff is a problem will depend on the scene being shot and also user preference. In most cases the 'problem' can be corrected quite easily in software, but in the most extreme cases (such as shooting the EF 24-105mm F4 L IS USM wide open at the 24mm end) the vignetting is not possible to fix completely even with the Vignetting slider set to full in ACR. This is especially evident in situations where there is a lot o |
| 09:05.16 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, just so you know, deleting pictures take more power than taking them |
| 09:05.28 | Shirik | well |
| 09:05.36 | Shirik | deleting pictures with film took a lot too |
| 09:05.47 | Shirik | usually it ended up in the entire roll being wasted |
| 09:07.20 | Thunder_Child | ...what? |
| 09:07.38 | Shirik | nm, it was a poor attempt at a joke :P |
| 09:07.57 | Thunder_Child | thats what i thought, but i wasnt sure |
| 09:09.28 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (i=tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 09:17.15 | Tewan | you have to be fucking kidding me |
| 09:17.23 | Tewan | wrong chat though |
| 09:17.24 | Thunder_Child | i never joke around |
| 09:17.50 | Corrodias | TC is srs bsns |
| 09:17.58 | Thunder_Child | ^ |
| 09:18.24 | Thunder_Child | though i do like vowels |
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| 09:20.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Windaria (n=Denial@unaffiliated/windaria) |
| 09:23.24 | Shirik | heh |
| 09:23.25 | Shirik | "In use we did not notice the battery depleting very fast, in fact you are much more likely to run out of CF card space than run out of battery power." |
| 09:23.54 | Industrial | so |
| 09:23.55 | Industrial | http://pastey.net/115519 |
| 09:24.42 | Industrial | This addon uses the blizzard actionbuttons and puts them in new bar frames, makes them look 'zoomed' and stacks 5 bars + a petbar on top centered in the bottomcenter of the screen. |
| 09:25.23 | Industrial | My buttons 1 to = are bound to the normal ActionButton buttons (the bottom row shown atm) but when I press the buttons the petbar buttons are used : |
| 09:25.26 | Industrial | :\ |
| 09:26.14 | Industrial | no idea what causes it |
| 09:27.25 | Industrial | I'm not even binding any buttons in the code |
| 09:27.30 | Shirik | thanks for that site Thunder_Child |
| 09:27.40 | Shirik | I may be poking you more later, but for now I have to go to bed |
| 09:29.04 | jnwhiteh | so VoA 25 is the non-heroic, right? |
| 09:30.32 | Thunder_Child | night Shirik |
| 09:33.19 | Fisker- | i hate you Shirik |
| 09:33.28 | Fisker- | hope your nightmares manifest in real life and destroy you |
| 09:33.31 | zenzelezz | jnwhiteh: 10-man = normal, 25-man = heroic; unless they did something special with VoA |
| 09:33.45 | Fisker- | that's how it is |
| 09:33.47 | jnwhiteh | oh.. confusing |
| 09:34.04 | Fisker- | why? |
| 09:34.21 | jnwhiteh | because I was in a 10 man before, that was on heroic mode |
| 09:34.23 | jnwhiteh | in VoA |
| 09:35.06 | Fisker- | then you were doing a 25-man with 10 man |
| 09:35.22 | Fisker- | Or you were already in the 10-man and it was changed to heroic |
| 09:36.19 | jnwhiteh | they normally would not have put it in heroic mode by default, would they? |
| 09:36.29 | jnwhiteh | are the instances actually any difference? |
| 09:36.39 | jnwhiteh | as in the bosses or layout? |
| 09:37.15 | Fisker- | nope |
| 09:37.16 | Fisker- | other than stats of course |
| 09:37.16 | jnwhiteh | okay |
| 09:37.16 | jnwhiteh | maybe that's why we were dying so quick :P |
| 09:37.16 | Fisker- | and sometimes the boss encounters are slightly different |
| 09:37.16 | jnwhiteh | who knows. |
| 09:37.18 | Fisker- | i.e. fewer mobs |
| 09:37.37 | jnwhiteh | Emalon had 4 adds |
| 09:37.56 | Fisker- | same in 25-man |
| 09:39.11 | jnwhiteh | ah hehe |
| 09:39.13 | jnwhiteh | who knows |
| 09:39.16 | jnwhiteh | i'm way undergeared for this |
| 09:39.20 | jnwhiteh | hopefully that's not a major problem =) |
| 09:39.34 | jnwhiteh | guy asked if i was in half feral gear :P |
| 09:42.13 | Corrodias | i'm in pure mojo gear at all times |
| 09:42.59 | zenzelezz | "Previous converstion time: 1h 40min Current conversion time: 23 sec"... that's a pretty nice improvement to the conversion code :-o |
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| 09:44.50 | *** join/#wowuidev qwesto (i=qwesto@stalin.acc.umu.se) |
| 09:48.02 | Matsy | What |
| 09:48.04 | Matsy | jnwhiteh |
| 09:50.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 09:50.59 | *** join/#wowuidev laeg (n=laeg@unaffiliated/laeg) |
| 09:51.10 | laeg | can i have two realtime searches running at once? |
| 09:51.26 | laeg | i want to search for good big bargains and also good buyout bargains but i don't want them all in the same list? |
| 09:59.19 | cbreak | is there an easy way to access the textures for the instance maps? |
| 10:01.37 | laeg | sorry wrong channel. |
| 10:12.47 | _rane | does ## SavedVariables: FooDB automatically create FooDB object for use? |
| 10:13.53 | jnwhiteh | yay |
| 10:13.58 | jnwhiteh | _rane: no |
| 10:14.15 | jnwhiteh | it just saves whatever the global variable points to out when the client closes, reloads |
| 10:14.23 | jnwhiteh | now i have the heroic VoA achievement :P |
| 10:14.25 | jnwhiteh | (s) |
| 10:14.50 | cbreak | lua has no objects |
| 10:14.55 | cbreak | it won't create anything |
| 10:17.39 | Matsy | You made it? |
| 10:17.39 | jnwhiteh | no, I earned it |
| 10:17.39 | jnwhiteh | lol |
| 10:17.39 | Matsy | Were you tanking, or what? |
| 10:17.39 | jnwhiteh | no, healing |
| 10:17.39 | Matsy | Ah, yes |
| 10:17.39 | jnwhiteh | which admittedly lets me chug pots and do what i need to do in order to keep up =) |
| 10:17.39 | Matsy | Healing it is fairly easy |
| 10:17.40 | Matsy | ... oh |
| 10:17.40 | jnwhiteh | but i hold my own |
| 10:17.40 | jnwhiteh | I'm just a bit undergeared |
| 10:17.40 | Matsy | Who were you healing? |
| 10:17.40 | Matsy | MT or OT? |
| 10:17.40 | jnwhiteh | i'm a druid, both =) |
| 10:17.40 | Matsy | Just as versatile as a paladin! |
| 10:17.44 | jnwhiteh | i seriously need to gear up tho |
| 10:17.58 | jnwhiteh | 1224 +sp |
| 10:18.06 | Matsy | ... what! |
| 10:18.13 | Matsy | You managed with 1.2k sp? |
| 10:18.28 | jnwhiteh | it was 25 man |
| 10:18.36 | Matsy | Even more, then. |
| 10:18.40 | Matsy | How many healers did you have? |
| 10:18.49 | jnwhiteh | 4 or 5, i think |
| 10:18.59 | Matsy | Ohhhh |
| 10:19.03 | jnwhiteh | two druids, two paladins and a priest |
| 10:19.09 | Matsy | Makes sense then |
| 10:19.14 | Matsy | We normally do it with 3 |
| 10:19.19 | jnwhiteh | hehe |
| 10:19.25 | jnwhiteh | well our DPS was really good, so wasn't a problem |
| 10:19.28 | jnwhiteh | which was nice for me |
| 10:19.34 | Matsy | Seems DPS is improving, lately |
| 10:19.39 | jnwhiteh | whats standard +healing these days? |
| 10:19.45 | jnwhiteh | i.e. at what point will i not get mocked and laughed at |
| 10:19.57 | Matsy | I dont know it about druids >_> |
| 10:20.01 | Matsy | I'm a paladin myself |
| 10:20.07 | Matsy | So, +healing isnt really a good choice |
| 10:21.08 | jnwhiteh | what I really need is a weapon |
| 10:21.16 | Matsy | Get the 1H mace? |
| 10:21.19 | Matsy | From Blacksmithing |
| 10:21.26 | jnwhiteh | titansteel something or other? |
| 10:21.30 | Matsy | Yeah |
| 10:21.31 | Matsy | titansteel |
| 10:21.49 | Matsy | Titansteel Guardian |
| 10:21.55 | Matsy | Its only 6 bars |
| 10:22.45 | jnwhiteh | tbh i don't even know how to get a bar =) |
| 10:22.49 | jnwhiteh | but i'm looking into it |
| 10:22.55 | jnwhiteh | is that a solid weapon tho, one I'm not likely to replace soon? |
| 10:23.04 | Matsy | Do you do Naxx often? |
| 10:23.12 | jnwhiteh | never |
| 10:23.14 | jnwhiteh | i just hit 80 |
| 10:23.17 | Matsy | oh |
| 10:23.18 | jnwhiteh | don't have time to PVE |
| 10:23.18 | Matsy | Then yeah |
| 10:23.20 | Matsy | Get that one. |
| 10:23.21 | jnwhiteh | barely have time to PVP :P |
| 10:23.32 | Matsy | Make sure you do OS / VoA regularly |
| 10:23.35 | Matsy | They're very short |
| 10:23.37 | Matsy | And quite easy |
| 10:23.53 | Matsy | A normal VoA run should take no more than 30 minutes |
| 10:23.55 | Matsy | Same for OS. |
| 10:24.08 | Matsy | Naxx takes a while :, |
| 10:24.18 | Matsy | At least, when you don't have a guild ;p |
| 10:24.32 | cbreak | OS can take ages if you try something non-simple |
| 10:24.38 | Matsy | True. |
| 10:24.55 | Matsy | But, the 0-drake version is easy |
| 10:25.56 | *** join/#wowuidev d87 (n=x@host89-251-107-29.hnet.ru) |
| 10:26.20 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213.21.89.60) |
| 10:26.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Jim-Bim (n=thorben_@mnsr-4db169a0.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 10:27.06 | Wobin | Emalon can be fail with dodgy pugs |
| 10:27.26 | cbreak | I've only succeeded once on him before the nerf |
| 10:27.31 | Matsy | I don't do pugs regularly |
| 10:27.38 | Matsy | But, every pug I did was pretty good |
| 10:27.38 | Wobin | oh they nerfed him? |
| 10:27.42 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 10:27.51 | Wobin | what did they do? |
| 10:27.55 | Matsy | At least, he seems easier. |
| 10:27.59 | cbreak | I think adds have less health |
| 10:28.07 | cbreak | and his chain lightning is weaker |
| 10:28.28 | Matsy | One shouldnt be hit by chain lightning for a large amount. |
| 10:28.29 | Matsy | :( |
| 10:28.45 | cbreak | spreading is much less important these days I thik |
| 10:28.48 | Matsy | If someone has DBM, it shouldn't be a problem at all |
| 10:28.49 | Matsy | YEah |
| 10:28.52 | Matsy | Groups dont even spread anymore |
| 10:28.58 | Matsy | They just stand there |
| 10:32.43 | jnwhiteh | does the bigwigs range monitor work there |
| 10:32.47 | jnwhiteh | i should probably dl it any way |
| 10:32.50 | Matsy | I dont know about bigwigs |
| 10:32.53 | Matsy | But, the DBM one does |
| 10:32.56 | jnwhiteh | since i'll be doing encounters i'm not familiar with |
| 10:32.58 | Matsy | It's a 15 yard range |
| 10:33.00 | jnwhiteh | yeah but i dont like dbm |
| 10:33.03 | Matsy | Oh. |
| 10:33.11 | Matsy | Does bigwigs have a range monitor |
| 10:33.16 | Matsy | That supports 15 yards? |
| 10:33.24 | jnwhiteh | I think so |
| 10:33.27 | jnwhiteh | dunno, i'd have to ask |
| 10:33.28 | Matsy | Because, it should be alright then |
| 10:33.31 | cbreak | if you have a 15 units spell... |
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| 10:34.11 | Matsy | Hmm |
| 10:34.16 | Matsy | Maybe thats why it didnt work |
| 10:34.29 | Matsy | Do paladins even have one? |
| 10:37.25 | Funkeh` | yes it has a range monitor |
| 10:38.06 | jnwhiteh | Funkeh`: cool :P |
| 10:38.21 | jnwhiteh | did the 5-man version ever happen? |
| 10:38.40 | Funkeh` | yup, littlewigs |
| 10:38.59 | jnwhiteh | heh, i'll check em out |
| 10:47.04 | jnwhiteh | what is the difference between teh two wintergrasp commendation badges? |
| 10:47.13 | jnwhiteh | oh |
| 10:47.17 | jnwhiteh | nothing, they just have different costs |
| 10:47.18 | jnwhiteh | ah =) |
| 10:47.18 | sacarasc | You buy them for different things. |
| 10:48.34 | jnwhiteh | yeah, the currency is different |
| 10:48.37 | jnwhiteh | finally saw that =) |
| 10:48.39 | jnwhiteh | i have WG marks to spend |
| 10:48.45 | jnwhiteh | but need more stone keeper shards |
| 10:50.10 | Industrial | Amusing question: Where do I find the C++ syntax, documentation and official site (eg the lua.org of C++, not the lua-users.org of C++) |
| 10:50.52 | Industrial | I really like making assignments off of google forum results! (not) |
| 10:55.05 | Industrial | eh, eh :D? |
| 10:56.52 | Industrial | right answer gets a cookie |
| 10:57.41 | Wobin | www.cplusplus.com ? |
| 10:57.47 | Wobin | www.cppreference.com/wiki/ ? |
| 10:58.10 | Fisker- | ? |
| 10:59.48 | cbreak | 978-0201700732 |
| 11:01.03 | Gnarfoz | sure thing, cbreak |
| 11:01.07 | Gnarfoz | Fisker-: beta what |
| 11:01.46 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:08.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Macniel (n=Macniel@dyndsl-085-016-171-123.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 11:09.32 | Fisker- | fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 11:09.40 | Fisker- | aw snap |
| 11:09.52 | Fisker- | i forgot there was a new round of sc1 |
| 11:12.36 | Fisker- | fail |
| 11:12.47 | Fisker- | A protoss just lost a reaver to a single hydralisk |
| 11:13.27 | zenzelezz | hm, another example of where capitalization matters... "14-year-old took off with jaguar" vs. "14-year-old took off with Jaguar" |
| 11:14.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 11:14.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
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| 11:49.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 11:50.04 | Fisker- | This is why we can't have nice things |
| 11:53.03 | Matsy | What |
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| 11:53.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 11:58.38 | sp0ckk | indeed |
| 11:59.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@78.151.177.83) |
| 12:06.54 | Arrowmaster | wow the ui forum got mass spammed |
| 12:13.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@88-109-41-199.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:15.53 | *** join/#wowuidev _Warcraft3 (n=Warcraft@210.51.45.202) |
| 12:21.44 | Arrowmaster | so i started watching this video about demigod and how they redesigned the multiplayer networking in 3 weeks because nothing worked on launch day, they said it used peer2peer networking without game hosts, seriously whoever decided to do that needs to be shot |
| 12:23.03 | Arrowmaster | many multiplayer console games have proven that you need dedicated servers for multiplayer or it will either have preformance issues or its going to get exploited to hell |
| 12:26.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 12:28.00 | Matsy | Anyone here has any experience with Java servlets? |
| 12:28.26 | Matsy | Never mind ;p |
| 12:29.24 | Ix-Xitan | :P |
| 12:29.34 | Ix-Xitan | do they use java servlets in wow ? |
| 12:29.39 | Matsy | No? |
| 12:29.49 | Matsy | Maybe on the wow site |
| 12:29.56 | Matsy | Don't know, really |
| 12:30.28 | Ix-Xitan | :P i suggest u search for java channels |
| 12:31.21 | Matsy | Oh |
| 12:31.27 | Matsy | Some people here have some experience with it, I'm sure |
| 12:32.45 | Ix-Xitan | hmm kay :) |
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| 12:34.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
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| 13:07.37 | Wobin | ...p2p networking on multiplayer -without- hosts? |
| 13:08.13 | Wobin | how the hell did that ever get past the drawing board? |
| 13:08.53 | Wobin | zenzelezz: that statement doesn't make any sense either way |
| 13:09.39 | zenzelezz | Wobin: that's because I had to translate it to English or you *really* wouldn't understand it. In Norwegian it does |
| 13:10.35 | Wobin | yes, well, those norwegians are weird |
| 13:13.59 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz-Oj2QgzYw |
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| 13:28.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
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| 13:34.02 | Aelobin | is it 3.1.2 atm? :P |
| 13:34.12 | Matsy | Yesh/ |
| 13:36.03 | Industrial | anyone know what keeps resetting MultiBarLeft/Right every time randomly? |
| 13:36.30 | Industrial | I even did frame.SetPoint = function(...) end to keep it from moving and I nilled in UIPARENT_MANAGE_FRAME_POSITIONS |
| 13:41.49 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:49.45 | Grum | lol .. goldsellers are writing they URL in dead bodies in stormwind o.O |
| 13:54.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-184-95.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 13:54.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:55.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys_ (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 13:59.17 | haste | Grum: been doing that for quite some time |
| 13:59.41 | Grum | they also hack wehile doing so |
| 13:59.43 | Grum | they portal the chars up |
| 13:59.49 | Grum | and they drop dead |
| 14:00.10 | Industrial | area of LOL http://images.gammatester.com/pics/be311d0ca444c5a4078cea12269bcda6.jpg |
| 14:01.32 | haste | Grum: yep |
| 14:02.55 | foxlit | those vultures are evil! |
| 14:02.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Koren (n=koren@97.95.35.149) |
| 14:04.40 | Lopeppeppy | Mountain Dew Alliance Flavor Night Elf Blue tastes... blue. Blue and fizzy. |
| 14:12.23 | Matsy | WOW WHAT |
| 14:12.24 | Matsy | YES |
| 14:12.26 | Matsy | I DID IT |
| 14:12.34 | Matsy | runs around naked |
| 14:13.19 | Lopeppeppy | Yay! |
| 14:15.01 | Matsy | Netsplit! |
| 14:15.12 | zenzelezz | no wai |
| 14:16.54 | Lopeppeppy | I didn't see one. *innocent* |
| 14:18.10 | zenzelezz | of course not, you were busy looking at Matsy running around naked |
| 14:18.21 | Lopeppeppy | As if. I'm packing to move, boyo. |
| 14:18.47 | zenzelezz | finally come to your senses and moving here? =D |
| 14:20.20 | Fisker- | slaps Lopeppeppy around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:20.25 | Fisker- | this is why we can't have nice things |
| 14:20.41 | Matsy | .. what the |
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| 14:21.13 | Fisker- | yes |
| 14:21.32 | Lopeppeppy | ~Fisker-++ |
| 14:21.41 | Fisker- | ffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- |
| 14:21.43 | Lopeppeppy | Be nice to Peppy, boyo, or I'll give you a good reputation. :P |
| 14:21.49 | Fisker- | new nvidia drivers seems to be enabling 3d support even though i has nothings |
| 14:23.18 | Fisker- | ~karma Fisker- |
| 14:23.18 | purl | fisker- has karma of -6 |
| 14:23.19 | Fisker- | ;_; |
| 14:25.39 | Cide | ~test--++ |
| 14:25.42 | Cide | ~karma test-- |
| 14:25.42 | purl | test-- has karma of 1 |
| 14:25.58 | Cide | come on purl |
| 14:25.59 | Cide | ~karma test-- |
| 14:25.59 | purl | test-- has karma of 1 |
| 14:26.04 | Cide | ha, beat you. |
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| 14:26.56 | Fisker- | ~karma test |
| 14:26.56 | purl | test has karma of 1 |
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| 14:31.32 | Matsy | ~karma Matsy\ |
| 14:31.32 | purl | matsy\ has neutral karma |
| 14:31.35 | Matsy | ~karma Matsy |
| 14:31.35 | purl | matsy has neutral karma |
| 14:31.40 | Matsy | :( |
| 14:32.46 | Fisker- | ~matsy-- |
| 14:32.51 | Fisker- | ~karma Matsy |
| 14:32.51 | purl | matsy has karma of -1 |
| 14:32.53 | Fisker- | harr harr |
| 14:33.00 | Lopeppeppy | Hey geek boys, go drool... http://eveningarwen.com/modules/main/ |
| 14:33.34 | Fisker- | Women don't belong in sci-fi universes |
| 14:33.38 | Fisker- | shoos the measly pests away |
| 14:33.55 | Adys | THIS JUST IN |
| 14:33.56 | Adys | People who feel pressure to look attractive are more fearful of being rejected because of their appearance than are their peers, according to a new study by researchers at the University at Buffalo and the University of Kent. |
| 14:34.01 | Adys | wow |
| 14:34.06 | Adys | talk about not obvious |
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| 14:34.49 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: :-o |
| 14:35.23 | Aelobin | Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
| 14:35.30 | Fisker- | old |
| 14:35.37 | mikma | adys: thank you, captain obvious _o> |
| 14:35.46 | Adys | yea |
| 14:35.53 | Aelobin | didnt say it wasn't ;) |
| 14:36.36 | Adys | Alice in Wonderland Corset Costume $425.00 |
| 14:36.40 | Matsy | Where. |
| 14:36.42 | Adys | Fetishists are mad |
| 14:36.50 | Matsy | Omg |
| 14:36.52 | Matsy | That is hot |
| 14:37.12 | Adys | no; it's a little bit disgusting |
| 14:37.23 | Matsy | That too |
| 14:37.26 | Matsy | But the storm trooper |
| 14:37.30 | Matsy | drools |
| 14:38.35 | Matsy | ..... |
| 14:38.37 | Matsy | Alice in Wonderland |
| 14:39.16 | zenzelezz | for those who didn't fancy the rabbit hole |
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| 14:40.19 | Aelobin | lol |
| 14:40.20 | Fisker- | you |
| 14:40.20 | Matsy | I'd so get one for my girlfriend |
| 14:40.21 | Fisker- | your mom? |
| 14:40.21 | Matsy | If she weren't so anti-geeky :( |
| 14:40.21 | Matsy | Yeah, or her |
| 14:41.22 | Lopeppeppy | Lingerie is not for the person wearing it usually, helloooooo. If someone bought me one, I'd totally wear it! |
| 14:41.35 | Matsy | Hahaha |
| 14:41.40 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: *ponder* |
| 14:41.52 | Lopeppeppy | I'm a redhead, so blue would be the best gift. |
| 14:41.57 | Lopeppeppy | Or a stormtrooper outfit, I'd do that too. |
| 14:42.02 | Matsy | ... |
| 14:42.08 | Matsy | Somewhat disturbing |
| 14:42.26 | Matsy | "* Not included: Long term job security, leggings, boots, gloves, lazer blaster, wig. |
| 14:42.27 | Matsy | " |
| 14:42.31 | Lopeppeppy | :) |
| 14:42.33 | Matsy | The lazer blaster is not included |
| 14:42.34 | Matsy | Thats fail |
| 14:42.43 | Lopeppeppy | There's a reason I won't wear the red corset, and it's not just 'cause I'm a redhead. :P |
| 14:42.44 | Matsy | And the gloves / boots, leggings |
| 14:42.57 | Matsy | Uhuh |
| 14:43.00 | Matsy | What would that be? |
| 14:43.12 | Matsy | They're all similar, right |
| 14:43.16 | Matsy | Just a different colour |
| 14:43.23 | zenzelezz | Unnamed Ensign phenomenon? |
| 14:43.59 | Matsy | erythrophobia? |
| 14:44.08 | Fisker- | farts |
| 14:44.28 | Lopeppeppy | Um... red shirts get killed first? Hello. |
| 14:44.36 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:44.39 | Matsy | These aren't all bulls! |
| 14:44.41 | zenzelezz | points at his answer |
| 14:44.56 | Matsy | I still think its erythrophobia |
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| 15:12.12 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
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| 15:31.38 | Lopeppeppy | has a boredom. *tragic sigh* |
| 15:32.09 | |Jelly| | tickles Peppy. |
| 15:32.29 | Lopeppeppy | Yay, good morning Jelly! |
| 15:32.33 | Lopeppeppy | I don't wanna pack. Rawr. |
| 15:32.40 | |Jelly| | Good morning! :) |
| 15:32.47 | |Jelly| | I don't wanna go to work. But I gotta. Ta! |
| 15:33.06 | Lopeppeppy | Have a good day dear! |
| 15:37.55 | mikma | have a good dear day? |
| 15:38.02 | Lopeppeppy | No, I don't wish deer on anyone. |
| 15:38.04 | mikma | om nom nom |
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| 15:43.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Matsy (n=Matsy@a143167.upc-a.chello.nl) |
| 15:45.48 | Grum | Anyone here who can code Java? :D |
| 15:47.01 | Grum | hmmm that says more than enough i guess =) |
| 15:47.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (i=proditor@c80-217-105-36.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:50.03 | haste | there are |
| 15:50.05 | haste | several |
| 15:50.17 | Matsy | Oh |
| 15:50.19 | Matsy | I can, Grum. |
| 15:50.25 | Matsy | What do you need? |
| 15:50.40 | Grum | i need someone who can tell me how/where/why a piece of code sucks |
| 15:50.50 | Matsy | Sure, link me |
| 15:50.51 | Grum | and possibly 'make it more java-like' |
| 15:51.00 | krka | just... post.. the code |
| 15:51.03 | Grum | http://java.pastey.net/115526 |
| 15:51.22 | Matsy | First of all |
| 15:51.23 | krka | 1) import * is usually frowned upon |
| 15:51.25 | Grum | seriously, anything wrong with it, point it out -- someone is making me code java and ... i hate it |
| 15:51.26 | Matsy | Why are you asking this? |
| 15:51.31 | Matsy | Oh |
| 15:51.32 | Matsy | Anything? |
| 15:51.33 | krka | 2) class names start with upper case |
| 15:51.35 | Grum | and i need to know how it 'should' look |
| 15:51.41 | Matsy | Yeah. Only import the classes you use. |
| 15:51.54 | Grum | k |
| 15:52.04 | krka | 3) first = !first is a bug |
| 15:52.09 | krka | this will alternate! |
| 15:52.14 | Grum | oh fek :p |
| 15:52.20 | Grum | yeah fail >< |
| 15:52.45 | krka | for ( String part: strings ) { |
| 15:52.52 | krka | what is strings? it's not defined anywhere |
| 15:52.57 | Grum | oh shit |
| 15:53.03 | Grum | i pasted the wrong one there -- that one i fixed |
| 15:53.05 | Matsy | I think you should do a in.readLine() first. |
| 15:53.15 | Matsy | Oh. |
| 15:53.19 | krka | generally you should atleast compile the code first :P |
| 15:53.20 | Matsy | .. it's below there. |
| 15:53.22 | Matsy | What |
| 15:53.43 | Matsy | Maybe args? |
| 15:54.25 | Grum | yes should be args |
| 15:54.30 | Grum | fixing on the spot gimme a sec |
| 15:54.33 | Grum | i cant fix the '*' as fast |
| 15:54.39 | Grum | as i have no idea where i get certain stuff from |
| 15:54.42 | Grum | (or how it should look then) |
| 15:54.44 | Matsy | What IDE do you use? |
| 15:54.52 | Matsy | Well, they're all in either java.io / java.net |
| 15:54.59 | Matsy | Or, shouldn't need an import. |
| 15:55.03 | Grum | no IDE |
| 15:55.08 | Matsy | .. what |
| 15:55.08 | Grum | tell me how to do it without :) |
| 15:55.14 | Matsy | Okay. |
| 15:55.18 | krka | use eclipse or intellij |
| 15:55.21 | Grum | even if it means a SHITLOAD of work |
| 15:55.24 | Matsy | Go Eclipse. |
| 15:55.26 | Matsy | Anyway |
| 15:55.29 | Matsy | Socket = in java.net |
| 15:55.38 | krka | well, learning to code java with a plain editor is nice to be able to i suppose |
| 15:55.40 | Grum | so it would be: import java.net.Socket; ? |
| 15:55.44 | krka | that's how i started atleast |
| 15:55.46 | Matsy | PrintWriter = java.io, BufferedReader = java.io, InputStreamReader = java.io |
| 15:55.47 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 15:55.55 | Grum | how to import multiple at once? |
| 15:55.58 | Grum | or should i write out a line for each? |
| 15:56.01 | krka | but when you know the language, using an IDE speeds up development immensly |
| 15:56.02 | Matsy | You can't. |
| 15:56.06 | Matsy | A line for each. |
| 15:56.07 | Grum | ok one line for each |
| 15:56.08 | Matsy | Yeah |
| 15:56.12 | Grum | editing ;; gimme a sec :) |
| 15:56.14 | Matsy | Grum, I haven't typed a single import line |
| 15:56.16 | krka | for handwritten imports, I use * too |
| 15:56.17 | Matsy | In.. like, years |
| 15:56.26 | Matsy | Just use Eclipse ;p |
| 15:56.28 | krka | don't worry about it |
| 15:56.37 | Grum | i am sorry, eclipse != vim |
| 15:56.39 | krka | if someone opens this in eclipse, they'll convert the imports automatically |
| 15:56.40 | Grum | i cant use that piece of shit |
| 15:56.40 | krka | :P |
| 15:56.47 | Matsy | Yeah ;p |
| 15:56.52 | Matsy | Haha |
| 15:56.57 | Grum | trust me i tried |
| 15:57.04 | Grum | and i am really afraid i HAVE to use eclipse |
| 15:57.07 | Matsy | Eclipse isnt hard? |
| 15:57.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (n=Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 15:57.08 | Grum | because you simply cant code java without it |
| 15:57.10 | Grum | its not hard |
| 15:57.11 | Matsy | You NEVER have to use Eclipse. |
| 15:57.14 | Grum | it is just made from fail |
| 15:57.17 | Matsy | What |
| 15:57.18 | Matsy | No |
| 15:57.22 | Grum | no, for java i HAVE to use an IDE |
| 15:57.23 | Matsy | Eclipse is the best java IDE out there, by far. |
| 15:57.32 | Matsy | I couldn't live without it |
| 15:57.34 | Grum | but i dont want to have to use an IDE to code something :( |
| 15:57.37 | Pneumatus | the netbeans lovers will disagree |
| 15:57.40 | Grum | and it appears to me mandatory :( |
| 15:57.43 | Grum | *be |
| 15:57.47 | Grum | anyhow, changing code- sec :D |
| 15:57.48 | Matsy | The netbeans lovers never made a web-based application. |
| 15:58.00 | Matsy | They'll convert immediately ;p |
| 15:58.17 | p3lim | I need someone to translate some strings I have into koKR and deDE please |
| 15:58.17 | Matsy | Making anything non-generic is painful in Netbeans. |
| 15:58.26 | krka | intellij is much better for refactoring |
| 15:58.30 | Matsy | True. |
| 15:58.37 | Pneumatus | you know you can import java.io.*, right Grum? :P |
| 15:58.47 | krka | i still use eclipse though, haven't made the effort to switch |
| 15:58.47 | Matsy | Which he shouldnt do. |
| 15:58.57 | Cide | refactor? |
| 15:59.04 | Matsy | Yeah. ;o |
| 15:59.09 | Grum | http://java.pastey.net/115527 |
| 15:59.10 | Cide | refactoring is a critically important software development process :P |
| 15:59.15 | Grum | that is better i presume? |
| 15:59.16 | krka | Cide: agreed |
| 15:59.22 | Matsy | We're currently developing a new refactoring tool for Netbeans. |
| 15:59.33 | Matsy | To implement as many refactors as we can. |
| 15:59.41 | Matsy | Because, Netbeans lacks a lot of 'em |
| 15:59.45 | Matsy | As compared to other IDE's |
| 15:59.50 | Cide | are you refactoring the refactoring tool at all? |
| 15:59.51 | krka | intellij is nice for introducing new classes, parameters, et.c. |
| 15:59.57 | Matsy | Cide. |
| 16:00.00 | p3lim | I need someone to translate some strings I have into koKR and deDE. PM me please |
| 16:00.00 | Cide | cause that would just be dizzifying. |
| 16:00.02 | Matsy | Of course ;p |
| 16:00.15 | Matsy | A compiler needs to be able to compile his own compiler too. |
| 16:00.16 | Pneumatus | Grum: what's the purpose of 'first'? |
| 16:00.30 | Grum | i am trying to send the stuff from the commandline seperated by a space |
| 16:00.36 | Grum | give me 'join' and i'll use it |
| 16:00.38 | Grum | i couldn't find it |
| 16:00.43 | Matsy | join? |
| 16:00.46 | Grum | concat |
| 16:00.47 | Matsy | What |
| 16:00.52 | Matsy | + |
| 16:01.04 | Grum | i have String[] args ... i want it concatted with a " " :p |
| 16:01.08 | Grum | and send that out |
| 16:01.13 | Matsy | Oh. |
| 16:01.18 | Grum | i can give you the perl code if you want |
| 16:01.21 | Grum | it is about 6 lines |
| 16:02.03 | Matsy | I'm getting confused by F#. |
| 16:02.15 | Pneumatus | Grum: would query care if you had a leading space? |
| 16:02.21 | Grum | http://java.pastey.net/115528 <-- |
| 16:02.23 | Grum | Pneumatus: yes |
| 16:02.27 | Matsy | I think the whole purpose of that routine |
| 16:02.31 | Matsy | Is that it removes that leading space |
| 16:02.35 | Grum | indeed |
| 16:02.36 | Grum | or trailing |
| 16:03.20 | Grum | i can do it in another way by: prepending a space; and then instead of toString() call: query.substring( 1 ); |
| 16:03.37 | Grum | both seem to be rather meh |
| 16:03.48 | Pneumatus | or trim() |
| 16:03.57 | Grum | no, because the query might have a space at the end |
| 16:04.19 | Matsy | I always use StringUtils for that >_> |
| 16:04.36 | Matsy | But, you need external libraries to use that |
| 16:04.42 | Grum | o.O |
| 16:04.49 | Grum | there is no 'join' in java? |
| 16:04.54 | Matsy | Nein. |
| 16:04.54 | Pneumatus | http://snippets.dzone.com/posts/show/91 |
| 16:05.02 | Grum | fucking hell its like PHP, it has all goodies but no useful ones :P |
| 16:05.10 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 16:05.20 | Matsy | Pneumatus. That's just ew. |
| 16:05.25 | Cide | just use python and be done with it |
| 16:05.37 | Grum | Cide: my manager decided from out of the blue to switch from perl to java |
| 16:05.45 | Grum | and i mean with 0 warning or discussion |
| 16:05.46 | Cide | why? |
| 16:05.50 | Matsy | .. oh |
| 16:05.50 | Grum | no idea |
| 16:05.52 | Grum | he wont tell o.O |
| 16:05.53 | Pneumatus | not really, Matsy, it just checks if theres an element still in the collection and appends the delimiter if there is |
| 16:05.55 | Matsy | This is for your work? |
| 16:06.08 | Grum | this is to get an idea how the most efficient java would look like to solve this problem |
| 16:06.13 | Matsy | I know, Pneumatus. |
| 16:06.14 | Cide | perl to python has, at least, an alliteration |
| 16:06.16 | Grum | so mess the code over please |
| 16:06.25 | Matsy | Grum |
| 16:06.34 | Matsy | Let me do some things then |
| 16:06.34 | Grum | perl->java is next to a complete mindset change also a complete toolchain change |
| 16:06.43 | Grum | please write 'java code' for my snipet :P |
| 16:07.04 | Grum | i know its the worst possible code, i'd love to see the best possible code |
| 16:07.13 | Matsy | This is nowhere near that |
| 16:07.20 | Grum | thank god :P |
| 16:07.26 | Grum | i hope i can appreciate the good code |
| 16:07.40 | Grum | we had 3 perl experts in our team of 4 coders ... |
| 16:07.46 | Grum | and 1 subpar java guy |
| 16:07.57 | Grum | and the guys just switches languages o.O |
| 16:08.00 | Grum | -s |
| 16:08.24 | Grum | and fired one, and gave me + the nonsubpar guy sort of an ultimatum |
| 16:08.30 | Grum | either learn java or byebye job |
| 16:09.11 | Grum | so i'm trying to get some kind of appreciation for java so the next 3 months will not be complete and utter horror |
| 16:10.05 | Grum | from what i see now: i need to switch from VIM to some kind of IDE (pure horror) -- its at least 3-4 times as long as perl, it requires you to learn way more about different parts of java than you would ever need for perl |
| 16:10.45 | Grum | ea: StringBuilder/PrintWriter/BufferedReader/InputStreamReader ... that shit you cant even find decently in the documentation without reading through most of it :( |
| 16:11.01 | Grum | in other words, im sad atm =) |
| 16:11.10 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 16:11.19 | Matsy | Bleh, I really wouldn't know what to improve on this |
| 16:11.31 | Grum | that is also fine |
| 16:11.32 | Matsy | >_> |
| 16:11.34 | Matsy | Java is limited like this. |
| 16:11.41 | Grum | so you are saying this is about as 'good as it gets' ? |
| 16:11.45 | Matsy | Pretty much. |
| 16:11.55 | Grum | i HATE the fact i have to do a: throws IOException |
| 16:12.01 | Grum | that is just ugly |
| 16:12.02 | Matsy | You can also catch it |
| 16:12.05 | Grum | yes |
| 16:12.09 | Grum | count the amount of places |
| 16:12.09 | Fisker- | slaps Grum around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:12.12 | foxlit | that shit is useful! |
| 16:12.15 | Grum | i count 5 |
| 16:12.20 | Grum | foxlit: it is not |
| 16:12.30 | Matsy | Haha |
| 16:12.35 | Matsy | Or, if you really want to mess it up. |
| 16:12.48 | Matsy | Surround it all with try { } catch(Exception ex) { } |
| 16:12.52 | Matsy | <3 |
| 16:12.57 | Grum | so that means a: try { ... } catch( IOExceptione ) { .. } .. times 5 .. that adds 20 lines |
| 16:13.07 | foxlit | So don't. |
| 16:13.12 | Grum | but i should |
| 16:13.12 | Matsy | This is why I don't use Java often. |
| 16:13.18 | Matsy | Talk to your boss |
| 16:13.19 | Matsy | Say |
| 16:13.20 | Matsy | C# pls |
| 16:13.26 | Grum | we're coming from a perl system |
| 16:13.29 | foxlit | No, you need to figure out what you actually want to happen on an exception |
| 16:13.32 | Grum | c# is equally wrong |
| 16:13.32 | Matsy | yeah |
| 16:13.35 | Matsy | Wha.t |
| 16:13.37 | Matsy | No. |
| 16:13.44 | Matsy | C# could do this in a lot less lines. |
| 16:13.45 | Pneumatus | if you aren't going to act on any exceptions, just catch(Exception e) |
| 16:13.51 | Matsy | ^ |
| 16:14.03 | Grum | that still adds 20 lines of try/catching Pneumatus |
| 16:14.08 | Matsy | No |
| 16:14.10 | Matsy | You could do it all |
| 16:14.10 | Grum | as i have to do it in 5 spots |
| 16:14.10 | Grum | yes |
| 16:14.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Etanol (n=etanol@hus134a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:14.13 | Grum | yeah lol |
| 16:14.13 | Matsy | And catch one. |
| 16:14.14 | foxlit | "throws Exception" is easier. |
| 16:14.18 | Etanol | wat up? |
| 16:14.18 | Grum | just encapsulate the whole thing :P |
| 16:14.20 | Matsy | Yeah ;p |
| 16:14.20 | foxlit | Then catch around your call. |
| 16:14.29 | Grum | ok, if i do that |
| 16:14.38 | Grum | how can i see which call threw the exception? |
| 16:14.44 | Matsy | Stack trace |
| 16:14.47 | Grum | or cna i just see that by dumping the stacktrace? |
| 16:15.01 | foxlit | The big question is whether your program cares what failed. |
| 16:15.04 | Grum | yeah that is bullshit --- i need to know it in the code therefor i need to encapsulate each call |
| 16:15.08 | Pneumatus | foxlit: exactly |
| 16:15.12 | Grum | foxlit: java makes me care |
| 16:15.16 | Pneumatus | most of the time, you wont care what threw an exceptiojn |
| 16:15.18 | Grum | it wont compile unless i catch or throw it on |
| 16:15.29 | Grum | in any case it is more work |
| 16:15.34 | foxlit | Yeah, that's checked exceptions for you. |
| 16:15.44 | Grum | as i learned on my first day playing with java |
| 16:15.46 | Grum | hurray |
| 16:15.46 | foxlit | However, Java just makes sure that someone somewhere is aware that it can fail with that exception. |
| 16:15.57 | Grum | yes and i know what i am doing and i do not care |
| 16:16.10 | Grum | but it makes me write: throws Exception on every function declaration |
| 16:16.12 | foxlit | Whether or not you need to have a swarm of try/catch blocks is your decision, not Java's. |
| 16:16.29 | foxlit | Encapsulate better. |
| 16:16.32 | Pneumatus | so either throw Exception from main, or wrap the whole lot in a try {} catch(Exception e) |
| 16:16.36 | Grum | show me how on this piece of code |
| 16:16.50 | Grum | that just smells bad Pneumatus, cmon :) |
| 16:16.55 | foxlit | which piece of code? |
| 16:17.15 | Grum | that i jst linked |
| 16:17.23 | Grum | let http://java.pastey.net/115527 |
| 16:17.29 | Grum | +me paste it: |
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| 16:18.21 | Grum | 9 lines perl vs 30 lines java :'( |
| 16:18.55 | Pneumatus | java isn't about being able to do as much as possible in a single line |
| 16:19.32 | Grum | and 46 times pressing shift to get a stupid captital letter somewhere |
| 16:19.40 | Grum | Pneumatus: then what is java strong at? |
| 16:19.49 | Grum | making you work for your code orso? |
| 16:19.56 | Grum | it has no map/grep/anything |
| 16:20.05 | Grum | it appears to require an IDE to code efficiently |
| 16:20.37 | Grum | it has rather stupid rules; that file has to be named Whois.java .... what if i want another testfile next to it? ... gah why does it matter what a file is named? |
| 16:21.34 | Grum | mmmm where does it get System from? shouldn't i also import that from somewhere? |
| 16:21.52 | Grum | prolly import java.io.System i guess |
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| 16:24.24 | foxlit | actually, no. |
| 16:24.29 | foxlit | System is java.lang.System |
| 16:25.13 | Grum | k |
| 16:25.16 | Grum | so just that is missing |
| 16:25.41 | Grum | ah well, i'll ask my boss to motivate me to start writing 37 lines of code where 9 should have sufficed |
| 16:25.52 | Pneumatus | java.lang.* is imported by default, you dont need to implicitly import it |
| 16:26.02 | Grum | k good to know |
| 16:26.03 | foxlit | You know, you can probably do it in 3 in lua. |
| 16:26.08 | foxlit | Perl sucks, etc. |
| 16:26.12 | Grum | nah perl is shorter than lua ;) |
| 16:26.22 | Grum | and i even did it completely nice in perl :( |
| 16:26.35 | Grum | no abundant shortcuts, just real 'perl'-perl code |
| 16:26.36 | foxlit | paste the perl version for great giggles. |
| 16:26.41 | Grum | oh i did |
| 16:26.49 | Grum | http://java.pastey.net/115528 |
| 16:27.58 | foxlit | It's almost readable! |
| 16:27.59 | Grum | i agree, perl also has some magic in it; $! |
| 16:28.07 | Grum | foxlit: cmon you can read that :) |
| 16:28.11 | foxlit | "print while <$socket>; " |
| 16:28.12 | Pneumatus | why not use Net::Whois::Raw? |
| 16:28.22 | Grum | Pneumatus: not in core of perl? :) |
| 16:28.58 | Grum | foxlit: that is proper perl short for: while( local $_ = $socket->readline() ) { print $_ } |
| 16:29.13 | Pneumatus | local :o |
| 16:30.01 | foxlit | Yeah, and I can tell that by reading it <3 |
| 16:30.01 | Grum | yeah but perl's local is not lua's local ;) |
| 16:30.01 | Grum | but: 'local $_ = ' can be removed |
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| 16:30.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 16:30.02 | Grum | and ' $_' after print as well |
| 16:30.02 | Matsy | Go to F#, and do this : |
| 16:30.04 | Matsy | let testMap x = x |> Array.map(fun (x:string) -> x + " ") |
| 16:30.24 | Matsy | <3 |
| 16:30.34 | Grum | what does it do? |
| 16:30.44 | Matsy | It adds a space to the end of every element of the array |
| 16:30.45 | Matsy | ;o |
| 16:31.08 | Grum | because i tihnk in perl that would be: map { "$_ " } @list; |
| 16:31.20 | Grum | @list = map ....; actually :) |
| 16:31.20 | Repo | Grum: Error: '=' is not a valid plugin. |
| 16:31.27 | Matsy | Haha |
| 16:31.32 | Matsy | I'm going to have dinner |
| 16:31.54 | mikma | good luck with that |
| 16:32.00 | Grum | sighs |
| 16:32.06 | Grum | wtb sanity @ workplace |
| 16:32.14 | mikma | all out of sanity |
| 16:32.23 | ScytheBlade1 | doesn't exist, please don't try again later or return |
| 16:32.25 | Grum | tossing away ~20 years of perl knowledge so someone can have us code java o.O |
| 16:33.11 | Grum | so has anyone got anything decent to say about java? :D |
| 16:33.32 | sacarasc | The country is beautiful. |
| 16:33.37 | Grum | aye :) |
| 16:33.39 | ScytheBlade1 | It has a decent GC? |
| 16:33.40 | foxlit | mm, java. |
| 16:33.43 | sacarasc | The drink is energy giving. |
| 16:33.49 | foxlit | It's generally decent. |
| 16:35.07 | Grum | generally decent, they say that about neighboring rapists as well right? |
| 16:35.49 | Grum | but really, can anyone give any reason why i should be thrilled to code in java? :( |
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| 16:36.11 | Grum | except for the nice weather obviously ;) |
| 16:36.19 | foxlit | Why are you thrilled to code in perl? |
| 16:36.52 | Grum | because it matches with my mind |
| 16:36.59 | Grum | languages with map/grep are just MEH :p |
| 16:37.11 | foxlit | Your mind matches whatever you work with, so that's no excuse. |
| 16:37.44 | Grum | ok, show me how to make a list of the odd elements in an array with 1..10 in java |
| 16:38.10 | Grum | because it should be as simple as: @odd = grep { $_ % 2 } 1..10; |
| 16:38.14 | alestane | You might like Python, then. |
| 16:38.21 | foxlit | That... is not simple. |
| 16:38.26 | Grum | it is not simple? |
| 16:38.29 | Grum | its bloody trivial |
| 16:38.39 | Grum | how many lines of java do you need for it? |
| 16:38.43 | Grum | ~10-12? |
| 16:38.50 | ScytheBlade1 | 2? A loop? |
| 16:39.06 | ScytheBlade1 | And I'm starting to see why people say that "all perl programmers are insane" |
| 16:39.10 | Grum | please type them :D |
| 16:39.17 | Grum | ScytheBlade1: howso? ;) |
| 16:39.44 | Pneumatus | the sooner you realise that java isnt about writing a whole app in 1 line, the sooner you'll be able to make progresss |
| 16:39.57 | Pneumatus | line count means nothing |
| 16:40.09 | ScytheBlade1 | for (int i = 0; i < array.length; i++) { if (i % 2 == 0) { System.out.println(array[i]); } } |
| 16:40.13 | ScytheBlade1 | :P |
| 16:40.15 | ScytheBlade1 | There, one |
| 16:40.23 | Grum | that doesnt do the same |
| 16:40.29 | Grum | i want a list at the end |
| 16:40.29 | ScytheBlade1 | oh |
| 16:40.37 | ScytheBlade1 | That and I did even numbers |
| 16:40.46 | Grum | waste of 4 chars !!! :p |
| 16:41.05 | ScytheBlade1 | for (int i = 0; i < array.length; i++) { if (i % 2 == 1) { System.out.print(array[i] + ", "); } } |
| 16:41.11 | ScytheBlade1 | It won't be pretty, but it'll work :P |
| 16:41.29 | Grum | no, i want the result in a list, not printed :P |
| 16:41.38 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 16:41.39 | Grum | in an array,list,map,wtfjavacalls it |
| 16:41.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Define list |
| 16:41.46 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 16:41.46 | ScytheBlade1 | k |
| 16:41.54 | foxlit | I think that highlights a Perl problem: even given your code, it's not clear what you want :) |
| 16:42.01 | Grum | foxlit: oh cmon |
| 16:42.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Gotta agree with that |
| 16:42.10 | ScytheBlade1 | 100% |
| 16:42.22 | Grum | @list = grep { $_ % 2 } 1..10; <- even for non perlies that should be quite obvious |
| 16:42.23 | Repo | Grum: Error: '=' is not a valid plugin. |
| 16:42.29 | ScytheBlade1 | no, it isn't |
| 16:42.37 | Pneumatus | perl shorthand only makes sense to people that understand perl shorthand |
| 16:42.39 | Pneumatus | simple as |
| 16:42.46 | Grum | there are no shorthands there o.O |
| 16:42.59 | ScytheBlade1 | and in any case, I'd just replace the System.out.println() with list.add(i) |
| 16:43.02 | Grum | oh sorry there is, 1..10 == (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) |
| 16:43.26 | foxlit | Is it selecting only odd values, or only odd indices? |
| 16:43.43 | Pneumatus | $_ is perl shorthand |
| 16:43.59 | Grum | no, a shorthand can be replace with something else -- this case you cant |
| 16:44.20 | Grum | in a grep {}-block the $_ is the current value passed in from the list it walks over |
| 16:44.27 | ScytheBlade1 | yup, perl guys are bloody freaking insane :) |
| 16:44.29 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 16:44.38 | Pneumatus | Grum: which can be named |
| 16:44.42 | Pneumatus | you dont HAVE to use $_ |
| 16:44.46 | Grum | erm not in a map |
| 16:44.50 | Grum | or grep |
| 16:45.08 | Grum | you can do: for my $current (1..10) { ... } |
| 16:45.09 | foxlit | I wonder why that is called grep. |
| 16:45.12 | Grum | but that is completely different |
| 16:45.19 | foxlit | Doesn't seem much to do with regular expressions |
| 16:45.29 | Grum | foxlit: it discards entries which do not match the codeblock given |
| 16:46.12 | Grum | the codeblock should return true or false (and in perl the last value calculated is automaticly returned -- therefor there is no 'return' (which you are nto even allowed to use in the codeblock anyhow)) |
| 16:46.31 | Grum | grep {} ... is nothing but a filter :) |
| 16:48.35 | foxlit | List<Integer> newList = new ArrayList<Integer>(); for (int i : oldList) if (i % 2 == 1) newList.add(i); |
| 16:49.10 | Grum | and the declaration of the oldList? |
| 16:49.15 | foxlit | Whatever. |
| 16:49.28 | Grum | (really i dont know the efficient way ><) |
| 16:49.37 | foxlit | If you were asking me to print odd numbers from 1 to 10, I'd tell you to use a for loop. |
| 16:49.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Koren (n=koren@97-95-35-149.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 16:50.34 | foxlit | int[] oldList = {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10}; would work |
| 16:50.44 | foxlit | So would anything iteratable. |
| 16:50.46 | Grum | k |
| 16:51.12 | Grum | does java have any proper mail parsing tools? |
| 16:51.24 | Grum | multipart mime crap etc? |
| 16:52.02 | foxlit | Dunno, never had to work with that. |
| 16:52.27 | Pneumatus | somewhere in javax.mail id have thought |
| 16:52.45 | Grum | and ways to 'receive' mails of some kind? |
| 16:53.09 | Grum | or retrieve them? (procmail piping into a java program would probably the simplest endpoint for that) |
| 16:54.22 | ScytheBlade1 | gonna be honest, you're going to have to reinvent a lot of stuff in other ways |
| 16:54.59 | Grum | yeah |
| 16:55.04 | Grum | all the knowledge is lost |
| 16:55.16 | Grum | just trying to get some kind of index of what i am to expect |
| 16:55.27 | Grum | from what i hear is that you even need to decide on a framework before you can start with java |
| 16:55.31 | Grum | that is right isnt it? |
| 16:55.35 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 16:55.43 | Grum | no? mmm |
| 16:55.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Java comes with a pretty complete framework by itself |
| 16:56.07 | Grum | i heard some stuff about 'JBoss' orso from other departments @ work |
| 16:56.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 16:56.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes, maybe |
| 16:57.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b7dd2a4b74c85046) |
| 17:01.37 | p3lim | I need someone to translate some strings I have into koKR and deDE. PM me please |
| 17:02.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-071-076-230-073.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 17:02.41 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 17:02.43 | Industrial | Anyone know of a plugin for firefox that colors videos youve seen? |
| 17:05.13 | zenzelezz | I wish the media would get their expressions straight. They keep intermixing "people" and "passengers" when they speak about airplanes |
| 17:05.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-082-212-057-162.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 17:26.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
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| 17:29.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 17:37.10 | Matsy | Grum |
| 17:37.14 | Matsy | Everything working out with Java, yet? |
| 17:38.38 | Nitra | Any easy way to hide the MainMenuBar forever? I seem to try and hide it too early |
| 17:39.16 | ckknight | Nitra: hook its OnShow script |
| 17:41.30 | Nitra | Ah, then I just have to read up on hooking :) |
| 17:47.51 | Nitra | Thank you |
| 17:47.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 17:47.52 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 17:47.52 | foxlit | "ckknight: Nitra: hook its OnShow script" << How late am I to respond to that? |
| 17:47.52 | ckknight | 3 minutes? |
| 17:47.52 | mikma | it's never late when you comment on ckknight's text |
| 17:47.53 | Matsy | Sigh |
| 17:47.53 | Matsy | shakes fist to Java |
| 17:47.53 | alestane | Nitra: Hide it and unregister it for all events. |
| 17:47.53 | foxlit | Change it's parent |
| 17:47.53 | foxlit | And replace SetParent with a null function |
| 17:47.53 | alestane | Yes, or reparent it to another invisible frame. |
| 17:47.53 | foxlit | (minus the apostrophe) |
| 17:47.53 | foxlit | Thing is, you can't use OnShow because it's protected. |
| 17:49.34 | foxlit | And Hiding/Unregistering tactic has a nasty "figure out what shows me" requirement which is difficult for some frames. |
| 17:49.34 | foxlit | Changing to an invisible parent is thus the best solution. |
| 17:49.40 | alestane | If we get the secure script wrappers sorted out, you'll at least be able to wrap the OnShow script with a [[self:Hide()]] posthook. |
| 17:50.08 | foxlit | That should work on live |
| 17:50.18 | foxlit | But it's akin to using thermonuclear weapons to take care of mosquitoes :) |
| 17:50.25 | alestane | No, there's a hiccup. Script wrappers on a frame that's not explicitly protected are silently ignored. |
| 17:51.12 | alestane | foxlit: Not quite that overkill. It's just a secure way to hook the OnShow. |
| 17:51.53 | foxlit | It just uses the entire restricted execution infrastructure to run one avoidable line :) |
| 17:52.59 | alestane | It's a difference of approach. You'd rather get around all the other possible concerns by locking the frame in a closet (which admittedly isn't actually a bad solution). |
| 17:53.44 | ScytheBlade1 | frames have a sexual orientation? |
| 17:53.50 | ScytheBlade1 | oy, this is going to cause problems |
| 17:53.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 17:54.22 | alestane | Being locked in a closet is not the same as being closeted. |
| 17:54.29 | ScytheBlade1 | ha |
| 17:54.31 | ScytheBlade1 | fair enough |
| 17:59.41 | alestane | foxlit: The other reason it's still a good reason to unregister the frame from all events if you intend it to be permanently hidden, is that it will cut down on purposeless CPU usage. |
| 18:00.04 | foxlit | But only if you can guarantee that those events are not used for anything else |
| 18:00.56 | alestane | True, if the author used poor modularity and the frame is being used as a control point for something else, |
| 18:09.01 | Lopeppeppy | pounces alestane. Because that is **fun** |
| 18:09.26 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.34 | alestane | Hrm? |
| 18:09.38 | Lopeppeppy | Yay. |
| 18:09.46 | alestane | gets tumbled out of his chair. |
| 18:09.47 | Lopeppeppy | I just got rid of my couch, it's *heavy*. |
| 18:09.51 | Lopeppeppy | They forgot how heavy it was. :) |
| 18:10.26 | alestane | Ah, WoW reflexes got the better of me. |
| 18:10.27 | alestane | All too often I have to put a space at the start of a command that I'm trying to explain to someone. |
| 18:11.48 | alestane | No more couch? What will you sit on? What will the Moose scratch when her claws itch? |
| 18:13.05 | Lopeppeppy | Moose never scratched the couch, thank og. |
| 18:13.17 | Lopeppeppy | For now, I sits on the floor. :) |
| 18:13.37 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 18:14.21 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Shirik. |
| 18:15.44 | alestane | I have been very pounced this weekend. |
| 18:15.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Jerek_Dain (n=JerekDai@71-82-127-149.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 18:17.24 | Lopeppeppy | Is complaining? |
| 18:17.27 | Lopeppeppy | *taps foot* |
| 18:18.06 | alestane | Did I complain? |
| 18:18.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@ppp184-136.broadband.gorge.net) |
| 18:18.28 | Lopeppeppy | :) |
| 18:18.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 18:18.37 | Matsy | Hai Shirik |
| 18:19.09 | Lopeppeppy | Did you see these earlier, alestane? |
| 18:19.10 | Lopeppeppy | http://eveningarwen.com/modules/main/ |
| 18:19.11 | Shirik | hi |
| 18:19.30 | Matsy | Do you use Java regularly? |
| 18:19.40 | Matsy | ;p |
| 18:20.51 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: I don't know too many ladies who'd actually consider that in their style, most of them fancy more baroque looks. They're pretty though. |
| 18:21.06 | Lopeppeppy | OMG I want to be a stormtrooper so badly! |
| 18:21.50 | alestane | A hot stormtrooper, ofcourse. |
| 18:22.00 | Lopeppeppy | Well dur, of course! :P |
| 18:22.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@88-109-245-167.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:25.06 | alestane | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/1/12/ |
| 18:29.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:36.59 | Shirik | Linux guys: What is ^H? |
| 18:37.11 | Shirik | haste, that means you |
| 18:37.23 | ScytheBlade1 | control+H |
| 18:37.31 | Shirik | well yes |
| 18:37.34 | Shirik | but does it have some special meaning? |
| 18:37.42 | ScytheBlade1 | backspace |
| 18:37.52 | ScytheBlade1 | open a shell, type a few characters, and hit ^H |
| 18:37.53 | haste | Shirik: backspace on old terminals |
| 18:37.57 | Shirik | got it |
| 18:38.30 | haste | I guess it's regarding my bug report, just hammer your keyboard some |
| 18:38.31 | haste | should do it |
| 18:39.03 | *** join/#wowuidev QQngsk (n=Gngsk@c-68-48-88-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:39.08 | Shirik | I'm going through all the reports and filtering them now |
| 18:39.13 | Shirik | to figure out the next two versions |
| 18:39.44 | Fisker- | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:39.47 | Fisker- | i'm ingame now |
| 18:39.59 | Fisker- | show me how to make my balls larger |
| 18:40.55 | *** join/#wowuidev root (n=root@91.186.70.220) |
| 18:42.08 | *** join/#wowuidev root (n=root@91.186.70.220) |
| 18:43.21 | *** join/#wowuidev root___ (n=root@91.186.70.220) |
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| 18:44.51 | *** join/#wowuidev root___ (n=root@91.186.70.220) |
| 18:45.02 | mikma | shirik: wakey wakey |
| 18:45.07 | mikma | cairenn|afk: wakey wakey |
| 18:45.16 | Cairenn|afk | hi |
| 18:45.39 | mikma | ^- boing boing -user |
| 18:45.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+i] by Cairenn|afk |
| 18:45.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-i] by Shirik |
| 18:45.54 | Matsy | :< |
| 18:45.57 | mikma | make him stoooooop (if he continues xD) |
| 18:46.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+b *!*@91.186.70.220] by Shirik |
| 18:46.29 | Shirik | Why would you go +i o.o |
| 18:46.49 | mikma | cause she has the power to do it |
| 18:46.58 | Shirik | I do like that this guy is logged in as root though :/ |
| 18:47.00 | Cairenn|afk | I thought it was a spam bot, didn't realize it was one person, hadn't looked closely enough |
| 18:47.02 | Shirik | he shouldn't do that |
| 18:47.10 | Shirik | Cairenn|afk: Still, should do +r, not +i :P |
| 18:47.29 | Cairenn|afk | yeah yeah, been so long since we've had to do it, I couldn't remember which one :p |
| 18:47.35 | Shirik | pets Shiibot |
| 18:47.51 | Matsy | +i should work even better! |
| 18:51.30 | End | hail ruined my nap :( |
| 18:52.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (i=62d8db99@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-eb8e4c232c32d482) |
| 18:52.27 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202164112.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 18:52.57 | alestane | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/2/2/ a classic. |
| 18:53.52 | End | lol |
| 18:53.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-082-212-057-162.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 18:54.15 | ScytheBlade1 | There are many classics |
| 18:54.35 | Lopeppeppy | But this one is mine! |
| 18:54.58 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/1/10/ is pretty good |
| 18:55.44 | *** join/#wowuidev JaggaJatt (n=541punja@87-194-92-118.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:06.11 | ScytheBlade1 | lua> 750000/1274 |
| 19:06.11 | lua_bot | ScytheBlade1: 588.69701726845 |
| 19:06.16 | ScytheBlade1 | lua> 750000/1274/4 |
| 19:06.16 | lua_bot | ScytheBlade1: 147.17425431711 |
| 19:06.21 | ScytheBlade1 | pats lua_bot |
| 19:27.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:28.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:28.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 19:30.45 | alestane | Howdy Iriel. |
| 19:31.27 | Iriel | lo |
| 19:31.43 | zenzelezz | http://www.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Mens--moonkin--T-shirt/Detail-3380/Marketplace/Products/detail/article/3521522/department/1/ o_O |
| 19:33.25 | foxlit | not http://www.spreadshirt.com/us/US/-Moonfire--Mens-T-shirt/Detail-3376/Marketplace/Products/detail/article/3521529/ ? |
| 19:34.04 | zenzelezz | I was just browsing the "computers" category, and the one I linked was on the first page. Didn't check many others yet |
| 19:34.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@c-76-107-188-90.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 19:34.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 19:46.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (n=TC@cpe-76-169-229-41.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 19:49.06 | alestane | ...too quiet. |
| 19:49.06 | alestane | pounces the Peppy head-over-heels. |
| 19:51.07 | Lopeppeppy | Owies! :) |
| 19:51.33 | alestane | I thought you were sitting on the floor? |
| 19:51.58 | Lopeppeppy | No, there's a chair at the computer desk, silly |
| 19:53.37 | alestane | Oh. Oops. |
| 19:53.45 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 19:53.54 | alestane | goes looking for Ace bandages and cold compresses. |
| 19:54.17 | zenzelezz | use the default UI bandages, less overhead |
| 19:54.37 | Lopeppeppy | It's more having carried the heavy couch. There's a *reason* I gave it away... it's too heavy! :) |
| 19:54.53 | zenzelezz | LIKE A FOX! |
| 19:55.02 | alestane | zenzelezz, I'm groaning at that one and waiting for the chance to slap you, but I have to admit that was pretty swift. |
| 19:55.12 | Lopeppeppy | :) |
| 19:55.19 | Matsy | Oh yesh |
| 19:55.21 | Matsy | Okay |
| 19:55.24 | Matsy | Just a general question |
| 19:55.31 | Thunder_Child | no, it wasnt worth it alestane |
| 19:55.40 | Matsy | IF an application would be released on your phone, that allowed you to talk to your guild mates via your phone |
| 19:55.44 | Matsy | And friends |
| 19:55.46 | Matsy | Would you use it>| |
| 19:55.59 | alestane | Through the identity of the guild? |
| 19:56.01 | Lopeppeppy | Nope. |
| 19:56.07 | Matsy | Yeah |
| 19:56.13 | Lopeppeppy | I'm not using phone minutes when I can use Ventrilo/TS |
| 19:56.14 | Matsy | Just as your real character. |
| 19:56.21 | alestane | Vent for my phone would probably be more useful in that regard. |
| 19:56.24 | Matsy | Nono |
| 19:56.25 | Matsy | I mean |
| 19:56.26 | Matsy | As a chat. |
| 19:56.38 | alestane | A text chat? |
| 19:56.41 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 19:56.42 | Lopeppeppy | Um... Xfire. Why type on a tiny phone keyboard? |
| 19:56.50 | zenzelezz | aren't there already IRC clients for iPhone? |
| 19:56.52 | Matsy | Not everyone has XFire? |
| 19:57.05 | Matsy | I'm talking about your guild. |
| 19:57.06 | Lopeppeppy | They all have computers at least. |
| 19:57.16 | Lopeppeppy | Not everyone has an iPhone, and it's much harder to get than xfire. |
| 19:57.17 | Matsy | All the people in there without any phone / skype connection |
| 19:57.21 | Matsy | What |
| 19:57.24 | Matsy | They wouldnt need to have it |
| 19:57.29 | Matsy | They'd recieve your messages in-game |
| 19:57.32 | alestane | I think of all the options I can think of, a Vent client for my phone would be the most useful overall. |
| 19:57.38 | Lopeppeppy | Matsy, not possible. |
| 19:57.42 | zenzelezz | Matsy: how would you go about doing that? |
| 19:57.44 | Thunder_Child | it is...in an overlay |
| 19:57.45 | Matsy | It is quite possible. |
| 19:57.48 | Thunder_Child | but thats about it |
| 19:57.51 | alestane | Chat client interface into guild chat isn't something Blizzard is in a hurry to implement. |
| 19:57.58 | Lopeppeppy | Huh? As an overlay, yes, but not directly to the game. |
| 19:58.00 | Matsy | They wouldn't need to |
| 19:58.01 | Matsy | I would. |
| 19:58.03 | Lopeppeppy | Which is why xfire is the same |
| 19:58.05 | Matsy | Not as an overlay either. |
| 19:58.06 | zenzelezz | Matsy: how? |
| 19:58.23 | Matsy | Packet Spoofing? |
| 19:58.32 | Lopeppeppy | Good luck selling it to them, Matsy. Otherwise it's a 3rd party hack that no one here is gonna help you out with. Direct interfacing with the game is verboten by ToS/EULA |
| 19:58.41 | Matsy | How so? |
| 19:58.46 | Matsy | :( |
| 19:58.47 | alestane | You're talking about emulating Blizzard's chat protocols, and possibly communicating with their chat servers from something other than the WoW client, and I' |
| 19:58.58 | alestane | ...I'm pretty sure that's against the ToS. |
| 19:58.58 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 19:59.00 | Matsy | It works, already. |
| 19:59.03 | Lopeppeppy | Go re-read your ToS/EULA, come back afterward. |
| 19:59.11 | Matsy | Actually, Lopeppeppy |
| 19:59.17 | Matsy | Lets look at another matter then |
| 19:59.20 | Matsy | What about an in-game IRC client. |
| 19:59.25 | zenzelezz | Matsy: you'll find that whatever the intention, talking about things that are against the ToS isn't welcome in here |
| 19:59.27 | Cide | also illegal |
| 19:59.32 | Matsy | Not quite, Cide. |
| 19:59.33 | Matsy | It's not illegal. |
| 19:59.35 | alestane | Even less feasible than the other. |
| 19:59.37 | Lopeppeppy | Matsy... sell that to Blizzard, not us. What zenzelezz just said is very very true. |
| 19:59.38 | Cide | not illegal, no |
| 19:59.43 | Cide | but against the tos/eula |
| 19:59.44 | Lopeppeppy | We don't talk about things that break the ToS/EULA. |
| 19:59.45 | Matsy | I talked with a GM about that, even. |
| 19:59.47 | Cide | not allowed |
| 19:59.48 | Matsy | I know |
| 19:59.51 | Matsy | But, the GM approved it. |
| 19:59.53 | Cide | GM's are not the ones to ask |
| 19:59.56 | Cide | gm's are clueless |
| 19:59.59 | Cide | and have no power |
| 20:00.00 | Lopeppeppy | GM is NOT the legal department. |
| 20:00.05 | Thunder_Child | and they do not influence policy |
| 20:00.14 | Matsy | How does it break the ToS / EULA though |
| 20:00.16 | Matsy | I fail to see that |
| 20:00.18 | Lopeppeppy | Write directly to Blizzard and sign a contract with them, THEN do your development. But until then, here is not the place to discuss it. |
| 20:00.25 | alestane | GMs are customer service representatives, not legal. |
| 20:00.28 | Lopeppeppy | Matsy, go READ the ToS/EULA, we're not going to hand feed it to you. |
| 20:00.32 | Matsy | Blizzard ONLY blocks third party programs that allow you to get an unfair advantage. |
| 20:00.37 | Matsy | I READ IT |
| 20:00.38 | Thunder_Child | nope |
| 20:00.38 | Matsy | Multiple times. |
| 20:00.45 | alestane | The client doesn't allow add-ons to communicate with the internet. |
| 20:00.54 | Lopeppeppy | Read it again, with this in mind. 3rd party app is a 3rd party app and forbidden. |
| 20:00.59 | Matsy | Lopeppeppy |
| 20:01.03 | Matsy | Multiboxing is allowed too |
| 20:01.14 | Matsy | And all the applications that arrange the mouse / button clicks |
| 20:01.25 | Matsy | How'd you explain that, then? |
| 20:01.33 | alestane | Matsy: Whether or not they do, they have the authority to take action against 3rd-party apps that interfere with their systems. |
| 20:01.35 | Lopeppeppy | Multiboxing is allowed within reason, and works within WoW. |
| 20:02.01 | Matsy | Yet, it emulates mouse presses / keys |
| 20:02.07 | Lopeppeppy | You're talking apples and oranges here, Matsy. It don't fly. |
| 20:02.11 | alestane | They have defined a pretty clear limit...as long as every action each character takes is still triggered by user input, it doesn't violate the ToS. |
| 20:02.19 | Matsy | Yeah. |
| 20:02.33 | alestane | It's not the use of input software that's forbidden, it's the act of "automation." |
| 20:02.40 | Matsy | Indeed. |
| 20:02.48 | Matsy | So, projecting a screen over the WoW screen. |
| 20:02.54 | alestane | Key cloning software doesn't "automate" the game experience. |
| 20:02.54 | Matsy | How's that related to anything in the ToU? |
| 20:02.58 | Iriel | The issue with in-game IRC is that it permits data to flow in and out of the client, which isn't something they want |
| 20:02.59 | alestane | Overlays are fine. |
| 20:03.03 | Thunder_Child | overlays are ok |
| 20:03.19 | Matsy | It's the same as XFire, really. |
| 20:03.25 | alestane | They don't actually interact with the WoW client, they're done through Windows. |
| 20:03.26 | Matsy | But, then for IRC. |
| 20:03.30 | Matsy | Indeed. |
| 20:03.34 | Lopeppeppy | Overlay whatever you want, but do not try to interact directly with the game client |
| 20:03.35 | Thunder_Child | just like voice controlls are ok for handicaped people |
| 20:03.44 | Matsy | I wasn't implying such a thing. |
| 20:03.57 | Matsy | I see the point for the first matter. |
| 20:05.11 | Matsy | It would be awesome if the first one would be implemented :< |
| 20:05.37 | Lopeppeppy | Not something Bliz is in a hurry to open up, that particular can of worms. Overlay it shall be -- hence, why xfire keeps getting mentioned. |
| 20:06.04 | alestane | Internets don't get in and internets don't leak out. |
| 20:06.13 | Lopeppeppy | *grin* |
| 20:06.17 | Thunder_Child | do they shake it all about? |
| 20:06.37 | Thunder_Child | oh wait..thats the worms one |
| 20:07.21 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@78-86-82-152.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:12.06 | mikma | http://www.truveo.com/world-of-warcraft-gm-power-hack-leaked-tool-from/id/429567220 <-- AHHHahahahaaa |
| 20:12.11 | mikma | of course that works |
| 20:12.14 | mikma | and is virus free |
| 20:13.36 | zenzelezz | "won't work if your account is banned/suspended/frozen"... I would be surprised if GMs were restricted in that way |
| 20:13.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Rincewind` (n=Rince@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Rincewind) |
| 20:14.03 | mikma | hahaahha, verification form! |
| 20:14.17 | mikma | insert details here, secret question, answer ... |
| 20:15.12 | mikma | "wait at least 24 hours. during this waiting period do not change au...." whaaat ;) |
| 20:16.05 | Iriel | Yeah, that's not a phishing tool, oh no |
| 20:16.57 | mikma | of course it's not, it works, like the comments say from... internet anonymous! i bet it's just haste |
| 20:18.18 | mikma | like so: http://www.truveo.com/world-of-warcraft-gm-power-hack-leaked-tool-from/id/429567220 |
| 20:18.24 | mikma | ULTIMATE HAXXXXXXX, and no proof ;) |
| 20:18.55 | zenzelezz | now wait just a minute here mikma. You're not seriously suggesting that people are being untruthful on the Internet? |
| 20:19.45 | Lopeppeppy | OMG no wai! |
| 20:19.46 | mikma | zenzelezz: no i just said that you CAN trust internet anonymous, they always want the best of stuff to happen |
| 20:20.29 | zenzelezz | I'm going to set up a website promoting Internet honesty as soon as my Nigerian money arrives. It should be real soon now |
| 20:22.07 | mikma | yeah, usually theres a small delay cause the money is being transfered overseas |
| 20:26.04 | ScytheBlade1 | That's likely a wow phish, actually |
| 20:27.31 | ScytheBlade1 | lol yeah it is |
| 20:27.44 | ScytheBlade1 | heh, I should read back |
| 20:28.24 | ScytheBlade1 | lol @ the description |
| 20:28.27 | ScytheBlade1 | NO TRIAL ACCOUNTS |
| 20:28.27 | ScytheBlade1 | If you put in a trial account expect some nasty porn in your email the next day. |
| 20:28.31 | ScytheBlade1 | NO TRIAL ACCOUNTS |
| 20:48.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-69-181-37-145.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 20:55.12 | *** join/#wowuidev sp0ckkZzZ (i=mcrilly@209-20-74-178.slicehost.net) |
| 20:55.59 | Tewan | mikma: rofl |
| 20:56.16 | *** join/#wowuidev sp0ckkZzZ (i=mcrilly@209-20-74-178.slicehost.net) |
| 20:57.33 | *** part/#wowuidev sp0ckkZzZ (i=mcrilly@209-20-74-178.slicehost.net) |
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| 21:18.41 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-184-95.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 21:24.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
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| 21:32.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 21:42.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
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| 21:50.55 | sioraiocht | http://www.newsguide.us/technology/games/Porn-Star-Paid-500-000-To-Tattoo-Company-URL-Logo-To-Her-DD-Breasts/ |
| 22:00.13 | jnwhiteh | so how much is it going to take me to skill from 400 - 410 tailoring |
| 22:01.45 | Aelobin | 10 skill points |
| 22:02.59 | jnwhiteh | >< |
| 22:03.01 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 22:03.37 | ScytheBlade1 | more than it should |
| 22:03.40 | ScytheBlade1 | enough to be painful |
| 22:14.28 | foxlit | "A child is a person who can't understand why someone would give away a perfectly good kitten." -- Doug Larson |
| 22:15.41 | Ackis | is [notarget] an appropiate flag in macros? |
| 22:16.33 | foxlit | [target=target,noexists] |
| 22:16.55 | foxlit | but that has an unfortunate side effect of hijacking the casting target |
| 22:17.15 | foxlit | Ackis: do check? :) |
| 22:17.22 | foxlit | It's one SecureCmdOptionParse call away |
| 22:17.45 | Ackis | noexists would work for me |
| 22:19.02 | alestane | Just [noexists] is fine, it will select if you have no target. |
| 22:19.28 | foxlit | target=target would be implied, I guess |
| 22:20.06 | Ackis | been too long since i dicked w/ macros |
| 22:21.45 | alestane | Ackis: Here's a shining example of what NOT to do: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/115537 |
| 22:21.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Patch789 (i=Patch789@68-185-176-218.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 22:22.23 | alestane | Someone just copied it on the forum, said they got it from somewhere else. It's almost painful to read. |
| 22:22.27 | Ackis | lol |
| 22:22.34 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 22:24.34 | Ackis | i should link you my macro page:P |
| 22:25.20 | Ackis | haha just got the sea turtle |
| 22:27.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@95.222.224.90) |
| 22:28.27 | *** join/#wowuidev dardack (n=chatzill@cpe-74-76-2-249.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:32.06 | ScytheBlade1 | This is incredibly immature, but holy crap amazing: http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-nemesis-has-name-changed-by-pranksters-090607/ |
| 22:32.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 22:32.11 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 22:33.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyndrome (n=faggotry@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 22:34.53 | alestane | That's about on a par with calling up Sarah Palin claiming to be the president of France. |
| 22:35.22 | ScytheBlade1 | I wonder how common that is over there |
| 22:39.06 | alestane | I'm a little surprised that no-one at the bureau thought "This seems really strange, maybe we should give him a call", but then, that department probably sees stranger requests. |
| 22:39.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Possibly |
| 22:39.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, yeah |
| 22:39.54 | ScytheBlade1 | They probably had no idea who he was |
| 22:40.58 | zenzelezz | if it's like in Norway, they allow pretty weird names anyway |
| 22:41.18 | foxlit | Is there any reason to think that name changes wouldn't be automated anyway? |
| 22:41.39 | foxlit | Check against a white list -> if it is allowed, just file the paperwork. |
| 22:41.49 | zenzelezz | I imagine they'd have to validate things like their SSN(-equivalent) |
| 22:42.06 | ScytheBlade1 | In the US, you have to go before a judge or similar, I believe |
| 22:42.12 | ScytheBlade1 | And verify any number of things |
| 22:42.15 | zenzelezz | but if there is indeed a white-list or a white-list formula, then I agree with you foxlit |
| 22:42.22 | ScytheBlade1 | To make sure you're not doing it to escape debt, the law, etc |
| 22:42.38 | foxlit | The law keeps records. |
| 22:43.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Doesn't mean distribution of name changes is instantaneous to all departments/agencies |
| 22:43.06 | zenzelezz | from what I've heard, you're not required by law to notify anyone of an address change in the US? |
| 22:43.29 | ScytheBlade1 | no, I don't think so |
| 22:48.14 | zenzelezz | a Norwegian radio personality changed his name to what translates approximately to Espen Thoresen You'rewelcome Thankyou |
| 22:51.24 | foxlit | Are radio personalities people? |
| 22:51.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-184-95.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:51.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 22:52.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyndrome (n=faggotry@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 22:52.21 | zenzelezz | well, "a Norwegian person primarily working in radio but also doing various other random appearances and stuff", if you prefer |
| 22:53.51 | foxlit | It's just the difference between performing under a pseudonym and actually getting a name change. |
| 22:54.40 | zenzelezz | I see. It was his actual name, not a pseudonym |
| 23:05.43 | tekkub | man, you know what I hate |
| 23:05.50 | tekkub | porn actors that break the 4th wall |
| 23:05.58 | tekkub | STOP STARING AT ME WATCHING YOU! |
| 23:07.22 | Thunder_Child | stop watching them and you wont have that problem |
| 23:07.36 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 23:07.52 | zenzelezz | tekkub: that's all the way down on the fourth spot? |
| 23:08.12 | zenzelezz | or wait, you said "wall", not "rule" |
| 23:08.30 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, shirik. Home made blackberry ice cream is dessert! |
| 23:08.41 | Shirik | I like my blackberry :( |
| 23:08.43 | Shirik | don't want to eat it |
| 23:08.53 | tekkub | yes, the fourth wall :P |
| 23:09.22 | zenzelezz | tekkub: it suddenly made sense right after I wrote my first answer |
| 23:10.19 | Lopeppeppy | Wizard's First Rule |
| 23:12.04 | Shirik | Can anyone on Mac OS confirm for me whether or not Minion's "More Info" now works? |
| 23:14.55 | Thunder_Child | lol Lopeppeppy |
| 23:16.30 | Fisker- | i can confirm it if you show me how to enlarge my balls Shirik |
| 23:17.31 | |Jelly| | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:17.43 | foxlit | http://static.wowhead.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/119760.jpg << that is so an ion cannon strike |
| 23:20.54 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy: wizard's first rule? |
| 23:21.01 | Thunder_Child | really Shirik? |
| 23:21.03 | Thunder_Child | >.< |
| 23:21.03 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, it's a book |
| 23:21.05 | Shirik | :( |
| 23:22.11 | |Jelly| | Shirik: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wizard%27s+first+rule <33 |
| 23:22.55 | Lopeppeppy | It's a really good book. |
| 23:22.55 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: never been around a boomkin, have you? :> |
| 23:23.09 | Lopeppeppy | I even recommend the second in the series, but don't bother going further than that, just read the rules online. |
| 23:23.19 | foxlit | meh, sunwell >>>> moonfire |
| 23:24.03 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: starfire more than moonfire, imho |
| 23:24.18 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy, lies |
| 23:24.18 | foxlit | Starfire has a really boring animation |
| 23:24.59 | Gnarfoz | hmmm not? |
| 23:25.09 | Thunder_Child | the other books are resonably good |
| 23:26.10 | Lopeppeppy | TC lies. |
| 23:26.21 | Thunder_Child | heh |
| 23:26.28 | Thunder_Child | i enjoyed them |
| 23:26.30 | Lopeppeppy | After the third I wanted to slit my throat rather than read the same soap opera plot again! |
| 23:26.56 | Thunder_Child | all of the books were soap opera..but they were decent |
| 23:27.09 | Thunder_Child | and it's getting harder and harder to find good books to read |
| 23:27.27 | Lopeppeppy | That is excellently, stupidly, true. |
| 23:27.39 | Lopeppeppy | TC, have you done Jim Butcher (both series) and Simon Green's Nightside yet? |
| 23:27.45 | Thunder_Child | no and no |
| 23:28.01 | Gnarfoz | Baroque Cycle! :> |
| 23:28.10 | Lopeppeppy | That too. |
| 23:28.33 | Thunder_Child | are they all fantasy? |
| 23:28.34 | Lopeppeppy | Give them a look see. I forget what book starts the Newton's Canon series, that one is also excellent. |
| 23:29.00 | Lopeppeppy | Yup, sci fi/fantasy, no hard science 'cause I don't like it. :) |
| 23:29.06 | Thunder_Child | to be fair i prefer sci-fi to fantasy but i will give them a look |
| 23:29.49 | Lopeppeppy | These are not "magic and unicorns" fantasy... just not very sciencie fi, either. |
| 23:31.19 | Thunder_Child | eh, whats sciencie to you? where they have a lot of tech? or where they describe it all? |
| 23:31.21 | Lopeppeppy | The Dresden series by Butcher is sci fi detective noir, so is the Nightside series by Green. The Baroque cycle is sciencie, but in an alchemy is real sort of way. |
| 23:31.47 | Lopeppeppy | Sciencie = star trek, needing to know what laser guns are all about, military alternative reality blowing up planets hard core stuff. |
| 23:32.46 | kd3|hate`net | grr |
| 23:32.48 | Thunder_Child | ah..seems we have different ideas of hard core :) my idea of hardcore is when you need to have a phd in math to follow along in the story |
| 23:32.56 | kd3 | wtb better ISP |
| 23:33.02 | Lopeppeppy | Those are in there with sciencie, TC. Trust me. |
| 23:33.24 | Lopeppeppy | You may enjoy some of Elizabeth Bear's more science-oriented stuff, versus her fantasy stuff. |
| 23:33.31 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy, well most of what you mentioned to me is right up my alley...though i will still give the ones you mentioned a look |
| 23:33.57 | Lopeppeppy | William Gibson doens't suck much either, come to think. |
| 23:34.39 | Thunder_Child | thats why i <3 david weber |
| 23:36.00 | Lopeppeppy | Then do try some of Elizabeth Bear's science-ones. I have packed them all already or I'd read off some titles... Dust is one. The ones starring Jenny, but I can't remember any of the titles right off the top of my head. |
| 23:37.27 | Lopeppeppy | Hammered, Scardown and Worldwired. |
| 23:38.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Soulsbane (n=chatzill@174.32.26.128) |
| 23:40.02 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy got hammered |
| 23:40.02 | Shirik | ? |
| 23:40.32 | Shirik | should lay off the rum |
| 23:40.44 | Lopeppeppy | Of course I do. A signed copy too, she's an acquaintance of mine through mutual friends. |
| 23:43.13 | Thunder_Child | never did understand the desire for that |
| 23:43.38 | Fisker- | so Shirik |
| 23:43.43 | Shirik | so Fisker- |
| 23:43.43 | Lopeppeppy | I have very few of them, but I'm proud of Sarah, I remember her from before she sold a single thing, writing in her living room... |
| 23:43.46 | Fisker- | Do you have anything to say? |
| 23:43.51 | Shirik | no |
| 23:43.54 | Fisker- | Like some kind of command to enlarge my balls |
| 23:43.58 | Fisker- | Then i will curse you |
| 23:44.02 | Fisker- | for the rest of your life |
| 23:44.11 | Lopeppeppy | What is your obsession with balls? Just be happy you have any. |
| 23:44.16 | Shirik | can I be wowinterfaced instead |
| 23:44.16 | Shirik | ? |
| 23:44.21 | Fisker- | naw |
| 23:44.41 | Fisker- | Lopeppeppy Shirik lied about cheating in teh peggle |
| 23:44.49 | Shirik | oh hahaha |
| 23:44.51 | Fisker- | but i called his bluff |
| 23:44.53 | Shirik | that's what you're talking about |
| 23:45.01 | Shirik | yes my peggle scores are quite epic |
| 23:45.56 | Fisker- | nahuh |
| 23:46.54 | Lopeppeppy | *snark* |
| 23:47.55 | Fisker- | but show me Shirik |
| 23:53.28 | Shirik | lua> return 1 "a" |
| 23:53.29 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: '<eof>' expected near '"a"' |
| 23:53.34 | Shirik | lua> return (1) "a" |
| 23:53.35 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: attempt to call a number value |
| 23:54.13 | Shirik | I don't think 1 "a" would be an ambiguous syntax |
| 23:54.18 | Shirik | should totally be legal |
| 23:55.12 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraioc_ (n=sioraioc@78-86-82-152.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:55.34 | Cide | lua> "a" |
| 23:55.35 | lua_bot | Cide: a |
| 23:55.51 | Cide | lua> (function() "a" end)() |
| 23:55.52 | lua_bot | Cide: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near '"a"' |
| 23:55.56 | Cide | ^ |
| 23:56.04 | Shirik | ? |
| 23:56.09 | Cide | it's not ambiguous, it's not valid |
| 23:56.18 | Shirik | lua> (function() return 1 "a" end)() |
| 23:56.18 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: 'end' expected near '"a"' |
| 23:56.19 | Shirik | that |
| 23:56.27 | Shirik | lua> (function() return (1) "a" end)() |
| 23:56.27 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: attempt to call a number value |
| 23:56.36 | Cide | what do you expect it to do? |
| 23:56.52 | Cide | since "a" on its own is invalid syntax, what do you think that should do? |
| 23:57.02 | Shirik | let me be clearer |
| 23:57.20 | Shirik | lua> a = 1; debug.setmetatable(a, {__call = print}); (function() return 1 "a" end)() |
| 23:57.20 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: 'end' expected near '"a"' |
| 23:57.25 | Shirik | lua> a = 1; debug.setmetatable(a, {__call = print}); (function() return (1) "a" end)() |
| 23:57.26 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: attempt to index global 'debug' (a nil value) |
| 23:57.30 | Shirik | ah fu |
| 23:57.35 | Shirik | batbot: a = 1; debug.setmetatable(a, {__call = print}); (function() return (1) "a" end)() |
| 23:57.42 | Shirik | !lua a = 1; debug.setmetatable(a, {__call = print}); (function() return (1) "a" end)() |
| 23:57.42 | batbot | Shirik: 1 a |
| 23:58.01 | Shirik | vs. |
| 23:58.05 | Shirik | !lua a = 1; debug.setmetatable(a, {__call = print}); (function() return 1 "a" end)() |
| 23:58.05 | Fisker- | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 23:58.06 | batbot | Shirik: @ [string "a = 1; debug.setmetatable(a, {__call = print}); (function() ret..."]:1: 'end' expected near '"a"' |
| 23:58.12 | Shirik | I don't see that 1 "a" would be ambiguous |
| 23:58.14 | Cide | ah |
| 23:58.42 | Shirik | It does bring up some interesting questions though |
| 23:59.12 | Cide | yes |
| 23:59.14 | Cide | for example |
| 23:59.18 | Cide | "what is love?" |
| 23:59.28 | Shirik | lua> assert(loadstring("function foo(...) a = 1\n(...)[0]=2 end"))() |
| 23:59.28 | lua_bot | Shirik: No output |
| 23:59.33 | Shirik | Why is that legal |
| 23:59.38 | Shirik | that is an ambiguous syntax |
| 23:59.53 | Shirik | lua> t = {1} assert(loadstring("function foo(...) a = 1\n(...)[1]=2 end"))(t) print(t[1]) |
| 23:59.53 | lua_bot | Shirik: 1 |
