| 00:00.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@70.167.195.98) |
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| 00:18.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@ip130.net253.mw.net) |
| 00:28.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124-168-189-229.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:37.07 | Shirik | Elly? |
| 00:38.25 | Wobin | Cairenn|afk: Wow, Vidi is more... insane than we first thought =P |
| 00:39.44 | Elly | I managed to log into WoW, but I couldn't for a while |
| 00:40.09 | Shirik | Wobin? |
| 00:40.21 | Wobin | http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/05/07/mmoui-minion-is-coming/5#c18742777 |
| 00:40.48 | Wobin | He appears to be frothing at the mouth so badly, he misreads everything to be agreeing with him |
| 00:45.10 | Wobin | I even managed to tie in 'Your Mom' jokes into the explanation of vaporware |
| 00:45.51 | Kirov | Speaking of vaporware, you guys know about Duke Nukem Forever, right? |
| 00:45.57 | Wobin | yeah |
| 00:46.24 | Dagmar | I'd just block him from posting again based on a history of false and misleading malicious statemenst |
| 00:46.44 | Kirov | Duke Nukem Never now that 3dRealms is belly up. |
| 00:46.46 | Wobin | Dagmar: not something we can do |
| 00:46.52 | Cairenn|afk | Wobin: if he's completely off his rocker, then it actually harms his point, not ours, so I'm not going to stress over it |
| 00:46.59 | Dagmar | I suppose this means I get to take a bite out of him then |
| 00:47.06 | Shirik | I really still think you're wasting breath even responding to him |
| 00:47.06 | Wobin | Cairenn|afk: truedat |
| 00:47.14 | Cairenn|afk | Wobin: besides which, I just walked in the door and still have to get caught up on everything :) |
| 00:47.21 | Wobin | pft |
| 00:47.26 | Cairenn|afk | his posts are very far down on the list ;) |
| 00:47.33 | NeoTron | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:47.45 | Shirik | in this economy, not really |
| 00:47.50 | Wobin | Unreasoned quick responses is the whole theme for this month! Get to it! |
| 00:48.01 | Kirov | Honestly, probably has nothing to do with the current economy. |
| 00:48.14 | Kirov | It has everything to do with no having a single product released in 13 years. |
| 00:48.24 | Shirik | lol |
| 00:48.35 | Codayus | I'm pretty surprised it took them this long. |
| 00:48.51 | NeoTron | Shirik: I am n ot sure if THIS economy is related. 12 years without a product is a long fricking time |
| 00:48.56 | Kirov | They made a lot of money off of Duke Nukem, and more off of the sale of the Max Payne IP. |
| 00:49.19 | NeoTron | I mean I can't see how most of the development work from the first 7-8 years - at least - would be remotely revelent today |
| 00:49.21 | Codayus | Heh, if they were all or mostly self-funding, that's almost sadder. |
| 00:49.32 | Kirov | all |
| 00:49.38 | Codayus | NeoTron: Didn't they change engines like...4-5 times? At least? |
| 00:49.46 | NeoTron | Codayus: yeah - why wouldn't they have pulled out earlier? |
| 00:50.02 | NeoTron | and I assume they would have had to considering 2-3 years between engines is a reasonble time period |
| 00:50.12 | Kirov | Quake 2 -> Unreal 2.0 -> Doom 3 -> Custom Engine -> Unreal 3.0 |
| 00:50.19 | Shirik | ..lol |
| 00:50.29 | Codayus | Yeah, that sounds right. |
| 00:50.45 | Shirik | why would you do that |
| 00:50.48 | NeoTron | so there was a discussion about age being a relevant factor in recruiting |
| 00:51.06 | NeoTron | I said we had a strict age limit but were making some excusions |
| 00:51.08 | Kirov | Shirik - One simple reason. "Ooo, new shinies!" |
| 00:51.23 | Shirik | Sounds like a violation to a sane software development process if you ask me |
| 00:51.28 | Pneumatus | parents dont like you cursing at their children over vent/ts, NeoTron :) |
| 00:51.29 | NeoTron | well since then I've had two hunters just disappear (20 or below) and one warrior basically disappearing days here and there (also below 20) |
| 00:51.33 | Shirik | CMMI level -4? |
| 00:51.41 | NeoTron | Pneumatus: we never have THAT young members |
| 00:51.46 | Codayus | Well, the thing is, after a while, you realize "hey, this unreal 2.0 engine is REALLY dated now, and our game is going to look like ass." And it's actually sort of logical to switch. |
| 00:51.53 | Shirik | Level 1 is bad |
| 00:51.55 | Shirik | Level -4 is wow |
| 00:52.14 | Kirov | Shirik - basically, the people in control at 3dRealms had tons of money, and a giant ego, and refused to release anything that they felt wouldn't live up to the high expectations they'd set for themselves. |
| 00:52.17 | NeoTron | Pneumatus: essentially though, it was once again proven to me that younger players almost universally end up less "responsible" |
| 00:52.26 | NeoTron | at least if you leave, say so instead of just vanishing |
| 00:52.30 | Wobin | NeoTron: That's why I like my guild =P Noone under 25 |
| 00:52.34 | Pneumatus | late teens/early twenties can be troublesome as well due to college/university |
| 00:52.46 | Codayus | Then the same completely defective dev processes which meant you missed all release dates for the unreal 2.0 version of the engine mean you miss all the doom 3 version release dates, and your engine is dated, and looks like ass, and you're starting to think it's YOU, which is worrying, so you convince yourself it's the engine... |
| 00:53.07 | NeoTron | the vent chat is a different issue - last night the subject of ass abseses were discussed for some god awful reason |
| 00:53.23 | NeoTron | that was quite pleasant and a nice followup to the previous days discussion about goatse |
| 00:53.28 | Pneumatus | L["General"] = true |
| 00:53.30 | Pneumatus | L["Focus Frame"] = true |
| 00:53.31 | Kirov | Codayus - well, yes and no. Most of the engines they had near final games done on each of them, but instead of getting it done and releasing it at time when they would be graphically relavent, they ditched the engine they were working with for another. |
| 00:53.32 | Pneumatus | L["FocusTarget Frame"] = true |
| 00:53.32 | NeoTron | we had a couple of ppl that had never heard of that before |
| 00:53.46 | Wobin | well, it's more that teenagers tend to have less control of their time |
| 00:53.54 | Codayus | Pneumatus: That's highly variable - some people have vastly more time while in uni that they do after graduation. "Real life" often intrudes a LOT more when people have kids... |
| 00:53.54 | Shirik | Is 3dRealms the official company name? |
| 00:53.59 | Kirov | Yes |
| 00:54.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: was! |
| 00:54.02 | Wobin | ie, if Mom says "Go take out the garbage NOW!" |
| 00:54.11 | Wobin | or "Go pick up your sibling from the station" |
| 00:54.18 | Kirov | They just changed it back to Apogee |
| 00:54.18 | Shirik | They don't even have a CMMI appraisal published |
| 00:54.24 | Shirik | that does not make me very confident of their approach :) |
| 00:54.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (n=WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 00:54.46 | Pneumatus | hmm, i could have sworn i had a script that stopped me pasting stupidly long clipboards |
| 00:55.31 | Pneumatus | well, its not so much the conversational topics on vent that make our's R-rated, its more the fact when people mess up they are told very colorfully :) |
| 00:56.14 | Kirov | NeoTron - there's a guy at work here who hadn't heard of Goatse. He was about to google it. |
| 00:56.17 | Kirov | we stopped him. |
| 00:56.25 | Codayus | Yeah, ultimately, the question of "does this applicant have enough control over their life to make raids" is relevant. The problem is... There's people who are 18 who do, and people who are 40 who don't, so I'd be inclined to allow exceptions rather than have a hard and fast rule. |
| 00:57.22 | Kirov | In my raiding group, we have a 13 year old who's several times more "mature" than a 50+ year old. |
| 00:57.42 | Dagmar | Kirov: I know the feeling. I've had to stop a co-worker from Googling G. G. Allin |
| 00:57.42 | Shirik | oh godf |
| 00:57.48 | Shirik | Trade chat is having an argument about "PST" |
| 00:57.56 | Kirov | PLEASE SEND TALE |
| 00:58.00 | Shirik | and that everyone keeps saying "PST me" which is not gramatically correct |
| 00:58.00 | Codayus | My guild has a lot of people with kids. You get used to pausing pulls because a child has woken up, or cut all their hair off with a pair of safety scissors, or whatever... |
| 00:58.06 | Kirov | NO IT PASS SOME TEA |
| 00:58.11 | Codayus | Shirik: That always bugs me. |
| 00:58.31 | Wobin | Codayus: My guild is from "The Older Gamers" |
| 00:58.50 | Kirov | PST to me |
| 00:58.57 | Kirov | . |
| 00:58.58 | Corrodias | or -just- PST |
| 00:59.00 | Wobin | The only hard rule is "You need to be over 25" |
| 00:59.10 | Wobin | everything else is understood |
| 00:59.13 | Codayus | Heh |
| 00:59.15 | Pneumatus | my guild are generally mid-late 20s with no depenants, although we have a few exceptions |
| 00:59.43 | Corrodias | having children makes you about as reliable during playtime as being children >_> |
| 00:59.48 | Kirov | We have one guy who has a wife and a new kid. One night he came on vent and said. "Alright, muted the wife. I can hear vent now." |
| 00:59.51 | Shirik | Wobin: Why not 22 :( |
| 01:00.07 | Wobin | You're not old enough Shirik =) |
| 01:00.15 | Wobin | But you could probably lie on the application =P |
| 01:00.17 | Shirik | :( |
| 01:00.20 | Kirov | I'm old enough. |
| 01:01.16 | Pneumatus | it always ammuses me when you find people out for lying about their ages on applications though |
| 01:01.26 | Kirov | I find people less than mid 20s can be really annoying just because they think they know better, but usually you can sway them to think "correctly" |
| 01:01.28 | Codayus | I suspect 25 is...a higher restriction than is optimal, especially as a strictly enforced rule. On the other hand, if that's the point of the guild, it doesn't NEED to make sense at all, so... :-) |
| 01:01.33 | Wobin | Pneumatus: usually on Vent =) |
| 01:01.45 | Wobin | Codayus: exactly |
| 01:01.54 | Kirov | I find people over 50 have the same problem, only nothing you say matters. |
| 01:01.55 | Wobin | we're called The Older Gamers... cause.. we're older =) |
| 01:02.06 | Corrodias | 25? i quit playing before i reached that |
| 01:02.20 | Pneumatus | although we wont accept anyone that doesnt have at least 1/2 people in guild that will vouch for them anyway |
| 01:02.31 | Corrodias | must be a small guild |
| 01:02.43 | Corrodias | and/or a very small realm |
| 01:02.56 | Pneumatus | 32 raiders at last count, i think |
| 01:03.14 | Kirov | 50+ players are some of the worst people to play with (if they're a "bad" player). They'll be seriously loot whorish, won't take critism well, and won't research their class. |
| 01:03.15 | Codayus | And honestly? The least mature person in my entire guild is 40, married, with kids. She's also petulant, spiteful, won't sign up to progression content, and will claim to feel sick and leave if we start wiping. ...and she's real life friends with too many people to ever kick. /wrists |
| 01:03.31 | Kirov | Codayus - yeah, exactly. |
| 01:03.43 | Pneumatus | Codayus: we had someone like that in BC, but we managed to ditch her for LK |
| 01:03.51 | Corrodias | grats on that |
| 01:03.51 | Wobin | oh we have those too |
| 01:03.53 | Pneumatus | along with her daughter |
| 01:04.10 | Pneumatus | mostly due to the fact they were too lazy to level at a reasonable rate to start raiding again |
| 01:04.44 | Kirov | We have one guy who's costantly just beating the tanks in damage, and though he's made some seriously bad gear choices (he's an arcane mage w/ 560 hit rating) he complains when we tell him he should try something else. |
| 01:05.13 | Dagmar | You could always start referring to him as "the guild idiot" |
| 01:05.24 | Kirov | We already call him Old Man |
| 01:05.30 | Dagmar | There's no point at all in having hit rating that high |
| 01:05.37 | Dagmar | Tell me he didn't gem to get his HR up |
| 01:05.48 | Kirov | Sadly, gear he had before that was better he DEd |
| 01:05.53 | Pneumatus | he'll be sorted for the next expansion though! |
| 01:05.57 | Kirov | No hit gems |
| 01:06.07 | Dagmar | Well, at least he's not wasting gem slots |
| 01:06.26 | Kirov | anyways, gotta go |
| 01:09.51 | Shirik | holy crap |
| 01:09.57 | Shirik | there's no "realm first yogg-saron kill" |
| 01:10.07 | Shirik | only "realm first hardest hard mode yogg-saron kill" |
| 01:10.10 | Shirik | wtf is that |
| 01:10.14 | Wobin | ugh |
| 01:10.17 | Wobin | vent is being terrible |
| 01:10.28 | Shirik | And I was excited because I think we'll kill yogg-saron tomorrow and get server forst :/ |
| 01:10.31 | Wobin | is there anyway to reroute vent traffic so it's not so laggy? |
| 01:10.31 | Shirik | first* |
| 01:10.43 | Shirik | Wobin: Get a better server or get a better home |
| 01:11.14 | Wobin | alas |
| 01:13.17 | kd3 | grr |
| 01:13.21 | kd3 | makes a rude gesture at his wireless bridge |
| 01:13.47 | Shirik | kd3`hate_net? |
| 01:14.03 | kd3 | quite nearly. I'm shocked I didn't get dropped from IRC |
| 01:26.18 | *** join/#wowuidev kmcguire (n=kmcguire@24-196-12-215.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com) |
| 01:26.53 | kmcguire | Hey, guys. I just about have a patch ready for QuestHelper. It modifes no code, but will bring the working memory from 15MB to 5MB roughly, and maybe a wee bit lower with some more work. |
| 01:27.12 | kmcguire | Thats a fresh install though. No alt data or anything. |
| 01:27.23 | kmcguire | Got to check out the performance of it, bbl. |
| 01:27.46 | Dagmar | Pneumatus: No, he won't. realistically you do not ever level ...and it does this without modifying code? |
| 01:28.00 | Dagmar | bleh. Stupid input buffer |
| 01:28.36 | kmcguire | You talking to me at the end there? |
| 01:29.53 | kmcguire | Yeah, modifies no code at all in QuestHelper, and it actually lowers the memory usage to right at 5MB. |
| 01:30.07 | kmcguire | It does modify the static data. |
| 01:31.01 | kmcguire | But, the proof is in the pudding. So let me work it the rest of the way out. I mean I have already shrunk the data just need to ensure the performance is not hurt. |
| 01:32.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125-239-29-79.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 01:33.07 | mikma | http://wow.tetzfiles.com/addons/DoomedPlayerFrame.jpg |
| 01:33.20 | Jamash | nice |
| 01:40.04 | Antiarc | http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/internal-cooldowns.aspx |
| 01:40.05 | Antiarc | new mod blah blah |
| 01:40.41 | Hjalte | Antiarc: Can you as an author see how many downloaded your alphas? |
| 01:40.50 | Antiarc | I'm not sure |
| 01:40.55 | Antiarc | I don't see more than non-authors do |
| 01:43.09 | Wobin | argh, 30sec ping on vent |
| 01:43.14 | Wobin | makes OT very scary |
| 01:43.32 | Hjalte | Wobin: That's funny, I was also lagging on vent today. It sucked, as I was the only one lagging. |
| 01:43.37 | Hjalte | I lead raids :> |
| 01:43.40 | Wobin | same =\ |
| 01:43.43 | Wobin | Well not lead |
| 01:43.47 | Wobin | but I'm the only one |
| 01:44.36 | Dagmar | Umm... |
| 01:44.50 | Dagmar | Doesn't that make it some extremely esoteric form of masturbation? |
| 01:51.49 | widgertick | Kinda like making a masturbation joke in IRC? |
| 01:52.07 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 01:52.16 | Dagmar | I wasn't making a joke. |
| 01:53.13 | Jamash | when is many levels of nested tables too many, I wonder |
| 01:53.16 | widgertick | I was :) |
| 01:53.45 | Jamash | right now I'm up to self.character.actions[spec][1][2354] = true |
| 01:54.09 | ScytheBlade1 | That's almost tame |
| 01:54.29 | widgertick | Kids these days... |
| 02:13.17 | Dagmar | Can't dump 'em in the lake, and there's no more gypsies to buy 'em |
| 02:13.46 | Dagmar | Damn EPA regulations... |
| 02:14.12 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=Nevin@c-98-217-60-101.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:15.04 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 02:15.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 02:35.31 | kmcguire | Well, 7.46MB not 5. I was not counting some other stuff. |
| 02:35.47 | kmcguire | Still checking on performance. |
| 02:37.08 | Hjalte | kmcguire: You need to contact ZorbaTHut, as he's the author of Questhelper then :) |
| 02:37.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:37.36 | Dewin | wtb vehicles that have working weapons for Flame Leviathan >.> |
| 02:37.58 | Dagmar | The weapon attacks aren't working anymore? |
| 02:38.07 | Dewin | Doing zero damage. |
| 02:38.13 | Dagmar | Wow |
| 02:38.16 | Dagmar | Yeah that could be a bitch |
| 02:38.26 | Dewin | yeah, we just reset the instance, trying again |
| 02:38.38 | Dewin | nearly wiped on trash |
| 02:38.47 | kmcguire | Hjalte, yeah. He will see the messages eventually, lol. |
| 02:38.59 | Dagmar | You're having the tanks stay behind the oil slicks, right? |
| 02:39.22 | Dagmar | Seems to be the #1 problem there--people getting excitable and trying to treat the motorcycles as superfluous there |
| 02:39.58 | Dagmar | I was kinda cussing our tank drivers the first time through because they kept just driving through the flaming oil to shoot at more guys |
| 02:40.23 | Dagmar | ...while the bikes can just drop slicks, and then race off to pull piles of guys into the trap |
| 02:41.22 | Dagmar | Those horns do such little damage about the only reason I can see that they've got that attack is for getting the attention of lots of iron dwarves at once |
| 02:41.30 | Dagmar | ...that and well, they're horns. |
| 02:42.54 | Dezzimal | those horns twoshot dwarves |
| 02:43.05 | Dezzimal | honk honk |
| 02:44.10 | Wobin | hm |
| 02:44.14 | Wobin | I have 40k hp |
| 02:44.17 | Wobin | maybe it's time to regem |
| 02:44.41 | *** join/#wowuidev bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 02:45.06 | bleetah | Shirik: just in case you've missed it... http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/sha-1/ .. I wouldn't be using SHA-1 anymore. This looks quite plausible ;) |
| 02:46.48 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@WoWUIDev/Cosmos/AnduinLothar) |
| 02:46.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 02:48.19 | ZorbaTHut | kmc, what's the trick? |
| 02:49.44 | bleetah | Shirik: and.. http://eurocrypt2009rump.cr.yp.to/837a0a8086fa6ca714249409ddfae43d.pdf |
| 02:50.08 | Shirik | bleetah, while it's interesting, I'm not quite sure how it applies to me |
| 02:50.52 | Torhal | aesir: You're quick on the draw, there. :) |
| 02:51.01 | kmcguire | ZorbaTHut: I have to finish it up then I will show you. |
| 02:51.27 | aesir | I fly Cessnas naked as a jaybird too. No safety chutes for me. |
| 02:51.29 | kmcguire | The only problem I am really worried about is performance. So I have to get that tested. |
| 02:51.51 | Torhal | Hah |
| 02:52.24 | ZorbaTHut | kmc, if you just tell me what it is, I can probably tell you about performance and the like more easily ;) there's a few things I've been planning to do but haven't |
| 02:52.24 | aesir | I'm on a personal vision quest to uncheck "Load out of date addons". |
| 02:53.38 | kmcguire | I convert the entire table structure into a serialized format which includes byte coded offsets, and I use this in conjunction with a cache. |
| 02:53.54 | ZorbaTHut | *nods* I've been planning to do that actually - you mean the stored DB, not the original table? |
| 02:53.57 | ScytheBlade1 | bleetah: "pratical collisions" needs to be more clearly defined |
| 02:54.00 | ZorbaTHut | er, not the working data? |
| 02:54.14 | kmcguire | Yes, just the static data. |
| 02:54.20 | ZorbaTHut | if so, don't bother caching it, there's a cache after the decompression module anyway |
| 02:54.34 | kmcguire | ZorbaTHut, well if you have been planning on doing it then I will not worry about writting it? |
| 02:54.37 | ZorbaTHut | and yeah that ought to be a-ok for performance, although it should be done in the build step not the run step. Yeah, I've been meaning to work on that :) |
| 02:54.59 | ZorbaTHut | do you have the byte coded offsets in the serialized data as well? i.e. one giant binary blob? I'd be interested in seeing how you did it |
| 02:55.05 | ZorbaTHut | I wasn't expecting that much memory improvement |
| 02:55.05 | kmcguire | Well, you have had a loooong time to work on it. |
| 02:55.13 | kmcguire | ROFL |
| 02:55.27 | kmcguire | LMFAO |
| 02:55.33 | kmcguire | drops out dead. |
| 02:55.37 | bleetah | ScytheBlade1: give the guys a break, they only release their analysis late last week. It's not uncommon for the details of a presentation to be ... inside the actual conference and one has to wait a few weeks for details to be printed |
| 02:55.48 | bleetah | ScytheBlade1: that way, conference organisers can kinda guarantee attendance and $$ etc. |
| 02:55.54 | ScytheBlade1 | bleetah: sure, but just the same - I'll believe it when I see it ;) |
| 02:56.15 | bleetah | ScytheBlade1: recall last year's customer PS3 cluster? |
| 02:56.26 | bleetah | ScytheBlade1: that wasn't exactly expensive to set up, well, for a well funded person |
| 02:56.36 | bleetah | tens of thousands, iirc |
| 02:56.44 | ScytheBlade1 | I do remember that |
| 02:56.48 | bleetah | I'd suspect this is quite similar |
| 02:56.54 | ScytheBlade1 | But just the same, it needs to be pratical |
| 02:57.27 | ScytheBlade1 | A 10kB (origianl) file that hashes to a 50MB ("spoofed") file isn't pratical |
| 02:57.38 | ScytheBlade1 | *original |
| 02:57.42 | bleetah | huh? near every breach starts out being theoretical, then it's wedged into the 'practical' realm once edge cases etc. are truly fully understood |
| 02:57.48 | ScytheBlade1 | sure |
| 02:58.00 | kmcguire | ZorbaTHut, you're text data is only about 400k. The static data takes around 12MB of memory. When serialized it only takes 5MB. It is all the tables that you are using which is bloating it up. |
| 02:58.09 | bleetah | thus, I'd contend, eve non-practical methods should be heavily considered when initially raised, not just dismissed with 'non-practical' otherwise you're inviting yourself... for attack |
| 02:58.11 | bleetah | shrugs |
| 02:58.16 | bleetah | *even |
| 02:58.26 | ZorbaTHut | the text data uses very few tables, it's mostly strings :) |
| 02:58.37 | kmcguire | shrug |
| 02:58.45 | kmcguire | I only know what I see nothing more. |
| 02:58.59 | bleetah | Shirik: anyways, if you're using SHA-1 anywhere, I'd heavily recommend you consider dropping it ;) |
| 03:00.08 | kmcguire | ZorbaTHut, I mean string data. Like strings.. do a complete transversal of you static data table hiearchy and count all the strings using string.len and you get like 400k. |
| 03:00.14 | Torhal | aesir: Just didn't expect anyone to even download the latest version within 15 minutes, much less fix the TOC version :) |
| 03:00.37 | kmcguire | Or, something like that. Also the numbers. I think are stored in double format. Not sure, but maybe give 8 bytes for each number too. |
| 03:00.50 | kmcguire | The rest comes from the table overhead. |
| 03:01.08 | Shirik | bleetah: I don't :P |
| 03:01.17 | aesir | Torhal: I'm like your personal albatross. Look at what happened with you snuck in that Ackis change yesterday. |
| 03:01.56 | Torhal | aesir: You're beginning to frighten me, a little. |
| 03:02.06 | bleetah | Shirik: well, yeah.. probably true now I think of it.. dolby's still back with MD5 hashes ;) |
| 03:02.10 | aesir | mwuhahaha*cackle* |
| 03:02.16 | Shirik | hm? |
| 03:02.20 | kmcguire | But, ZorbaTHut. If my idea is okay in performance. Then you shall need to actually build the static data files in this serialized format. At the moment it can take 60 seconds to load WOW when I convert the data. So, either during build or do it incrementally after loading. |
| 03:02.44 | Shirik | the MD5 on our site is just as displayed to users; there's more things going on behind the scenes |
| 03:02.54 | kmcguire | I do not know really. It does not matter to me. But, I will finish it up and give it to you. |
| 03:03.28 | Dolby | lot more than just md5 ;) |
| 03:03.39 | Dolby | thats just for the end user to use |
| 03:03.40 | bleetah | Dolby: any SHA-1, though? :P |
| 03:04.00 | Shirik | bleetah: You act like SHA-1 is bad to use |
| 03:04.02 | Shirik | that's not true |
| 03:04.16 | bleetah | Shirik: you act like I'm not entitled to ask a question |
| 03:04.49 | Dolby | yes, again not the only hash either |
| 03:04.58 | Shirik | no, you just sound like you're trying to raise panic over something for no reason |
| 03:05.38 | Dolby | we use many different methods so if one or two fail there are other methods in place |
| 03:06.00 | Dolby | if you have a suggestion for an additional method I'd like to hear |
| 03:06.13 | Dolby | always open to feedback |
| 03:06.31 | ZorbaTHut | kmc, yeah, doing it while building is easy enough |
| 03:06.37 | ZorbaTHut | how are you making the lookup table? |
| 03:06.47 | bleetah | Dolby: right, so in your closed shop... you've got a bunch of stuff you can't describe. if someone raises a concern you might be using stuff that could be breached soon, you tell them 'if you can come up with something, let us know' yet you won't release what you're doing already? |
| 03:07.06 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, what format is it? |
| 03:07.06 | bleetah | Dolby: so how are people meant to suggest stuff without being told by Shirik to piss off because we don't know what we're talking about? |
| 03:07.21 | ZorbaTHut | (sorry for delays, trying auriaya :) ) |
| 03:07.23 | bleetah | Dolby: or to provide suggestions to you, for that matter? |
| 03:07.25 | Dagmar | bleetah: Perhaps by knowing what they're talking about |
| 03:07.34 | Dolby | I handle the website stuff... |
| 03:07.40 | bleetah | Dagmar: see above about lack of release about what they ARE acutally doing |
| 03:07.45 | Dolby | well for the most part |
| 03:08.07 | bleetah | far as I can tell, the trust relationship is mostly smoke and mirrors |
| 03:08.37 | bleetah | so I ask you, why should I trust your word that it's secure, and not trust the word of some researchers that they're getting close to sha-1? i mean, both aren't releasing details... /shrug |
| 03:08.49 | Dolby | I havent been following this irc channel. I assume your talking about file tampering on the server? |
| 03:08.52 | Shirik | When did I say Sha-1 was secure? |
| 03:08.56 | Shirik | I didn't |
| 03:09.15 | Dagmar | bleetah: See right here where I say who makes it *your* purview to pass judgement on a not-yet-completed project? |
| 03:09.17 | Shirik | However, I DID say that, even if SHA-1 is insecure, it doesn't imply that it shouldn't be used |
| 03:09.28 | Shirik | People still use MD5 to this day |
| 03:09.32 | Shirik | they just use it in combination with other things |
| 03:10.07 | Dagmar | They could still use it for what most people are using it for now, except they'd be bombarded by emails from people who only have a marginal grasp of it's "weakness" |
| 03:10.11 | ScytheBlade1 | eh, just get http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/10/the_skein_hash.html implimented in a few software projects and call it good |
| 03:10.20 | Arrowmaster | md5 plus data size is usually good |
| 03:10.43 | Arrowmaster | since all md5 attacks i know of cause increased file size |
| 03:10.44 | mikma | shirik: you genius, i got a question for you. http://oldsvn.wowace.com/wowace/trunk/Relegation/Data/MessageList.lua -> any idea how to make a de-Rot13 function? |
| 03:10.54 | Shirik | do I have to hurt you mikma |
| 03:10.59 | Dagmar | Guys, the attack on md5 sum basically requires the attacker be the one responsible for generating both the fake document *and* the real one |
| 03:11.12 | Dagmar | It's still non-trivial to replicate an existing sum |
| 03:11.29 | Arrowmaster | ive seen it done |
| 03:11.34 | mikma | shirik: if you ara into bdsm, sure |
| 03:11.51 | Shirik | was that a serious question mikma? |
| 03:11.54 | bleetah | Dagmar: um, I'm a consumer. WoWI is a corporate entity offering commercial services. I'm perfectly in my rights to question anything they do. To suggest otherwise is silly. |
| 03:12.10 | bleetah | Dagmar: however, to call it 'passing judgement' is a stretch ;) |
| 03:12.14 | Dagmar | bleetah: You also have the right to simply not use their product |
| 03:12.20 | Shirik | if so, I suggest you look up the paper on the "2rot13" encryption algorithm, mikma |
| 03:12.23 | Dagmar | Dude you are SO passing judgement on it |
| 03:13.20 | mikma | shirik: well i managed to do one myself, but it returns quite odd results =D |
| 03:13.24 | Dagmar | ...and there's nothing that can kill a project faster than having to comply with a ton of different directives imposed by people not responsible for carrying them out. |
| 03:13.32 | Shirik | mikma: Ok I'll just be straightforward |
| 03:13.39 | Dagmar | Let the CODERS do the work, and let other coders worry about it's fitness and fixing it later. |
| 03:13.49 | Shirik | you realize performing a ROT13 on something twice goes back to the original data, right? |
| 03:13.55 | Shirik | ~rot13 hello, world |
| 03:13.55 | purl | uryyb, jbeyq |
| 03:13.59 | kmcguire | ZorbaTHut, I will just post it first. Just in case you run with the idea and give no credit. =p Then, you can copy it and use it to your desire. |
| 03:14.01 | Shirik | ~rot13 uryyb, jbeyq |
| 03:14.02 | purl | hello, world |
| 03:14.13 | mikma | shirik: no, i didn't know that! |
| 03:14.19 | Dagmar | bleeter: I'm all for outside auditing, but when a project is still in the skeletal stage isn't really the time |
| 03:14.20 | Shirik | ok well now you do :P |
| 03:14.25 | ZorbaTHut | kmc, alright, cool. you're definitely getting credit btw ;) |
| 03:14.26 | mikma | thats cool |
| 03:14.33 | bleetah | Dagmar: which project do you keep saying is in skeletal stages? |
| 03:14.34 | mikma | shirik: day saved, thanks baby |
| 03:14.41 | bleetah | Dagmar: best I can tell, wowi's front pages etc. are all released |
| 03:14.49 | Dagmar | ...especially with software that's close to free. It can absolutely murder a programmers motivation to be hounded by people screaming that what they're doing is wrong. |
| 03:14.57 | bleetah | curse's git repo is up, others are using monotone etc. |
| 03:15.06 | Dagmar | Oh my god they put up a website?!?! |
| 03:15.10 | bleetah | I come in here, suggest people may wanna have a think about this stuff |
| 03:15.11 | Dagmar | It'll get hacored! |
| 03:15.18 | bleetah | and people go off their trollies =)) |
| 03:15.19 | Shirik | mikma: That's the joke behind 2rot13 encryption :) |
| 03:15.25 | Dolby | people? who? |
| 03:15.29 | Shirik | Have fun with http://www.mobikom.at/2rot13.pdf if you get bored |
| 03:15.36 | Dolby | I hope you dont think me. |
| 03:16.08 | Dolby | I thought you were talking about our file upload checks and file tampering pratices |
| 03:16.18 | Dolby | guessing you were talking about the patcher now? |
| 03:16.19 | Dagmar | Wait, you're not seriously saying there should be a mechanism to certify that WoWI's HTML hasn't been tampered with are you? |
| 03:16.46 | Dolby | is confused |
| 03:17.52 | bleetah | ... |
| 03:19.27 | ScytheBlade1 | pats his SSL'd everything on the back and calls it good |
| 03:19.30 | Dagmar | Oh I see... The plan is apparently 1. make hyperbolic but vague statements, 2. get mad no one listens, 3. ??? 4. Profit! |
| 03:19.40 | Torhal | /wrists over the drama. |
| 03:19.44 | Dagmar | I didn't scroll back up far enough to see how looney the complaint really was |
| 03:20.02 | bleetah | Dagmar: only about as loony as your statement that it was a complaint ;) |
| 03:20.22 | bleetah | i love how idiots join convos halfway thru and think they know what the convo is about |
| 03:20.29 | bleetah | generally makes my day every time it happens |
| 03:20.40 | ScytheBlade1 | closes the laptop for a half hour and calls it good |
| 03:20.45 | bleetah | good idea |
| 03:21.03 | Dolby | well this idiot saw his name pinged |
| 03:21.08 | Dolby | only reason i joined in |
| 03:21.21 | bleetah | you're the san one |
| 03:21.23 | bleetah | as usual :P |
| 03:21.24 | bleetah | sane |
| 03:21.28 | *** part/#wowuidev bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 03:21.34 | Dolby | nah I'm an idiot |
| 03:21.39 | Shirik | he is |
| 03:22.16 | Torhal | Shirik: "he is" the sane one, or the idiot? |
| 03:22.17 | Torhal | :D |
| 03:22.21 | Dagmar | bleetah: You should stop reading security papers, or at least stop trying to interpret them to other people |
| 03:22.24 | Shirik | take your pick |
| 03:22.30 | Torhal | Heh |
| 03:22.56 | Dagmar | The SHA-1 attack outlined in that first URL is just as not-viable for most uses as the MD5 one is |
| 03:23.23 | Dagmar | Both cases require the attacker to the be one generating both the good _and_ the malicious file |
| 03:24.12 | Dagmar | ...and by the way, this "idiot" has security certs |
| 03:25.09 | Dagmar | If Shirik publishes a file and the sha or md5 of it in a separate channel, it's going to be non-trivial to spoof it, even in light of the attacks you were talking about |
| 03:25.48 | Dagmar | You may note that there's not really anyone relying on just *one* of these mechanisms for models where an attacker could potentially generate both documents |
| 03:25.51 | Dagmar | Or maybe you didn't. |
| 03:28.50 | Dagmar | A much bigger problem is establishing a good channel for relaying those sums without someone screwing with them |
| 03:29.12 | Shirik | no offense Dagmar |
| 03:29.15 | Dagmar | ...because why bother creating a spoofed document when you can just take your own document, stomp it over the original, and just replace the sum being reported with the correct one for your malicious document |
| 03:29.17 | Shirik | you do realize he left, right? |
| 03:29.21 | Dagmar | Ah bugger |
| 03:29.39 | Torhal | Shirik: He's been...touchy lately. |
| 03:30.29 | Dagmar | Meh. Maybe he'll calm down a bit after this |
| 03:30.54 | Dagmar | It's good that he's interested in these things... not so good that he's going off half-cocked |
| 03:31.21 | Dagmar | Telling people "you should stop using SHA-E because it's insecure" is not very useful. :/ |
| 03:32.02 | Torhal | Dagmar: You should really stop using ipV4, it will crash teh intarwebz soon. |
| 03:32.08 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:32.11 | Dagmar | er I know. |
| 03:33.05 | Dagmar | I want to slap (repeatedly) the guys who were jabbering at the press recently about "internet brownouts" causing people's computers to freeze. |
| 03:33.19 | Dagmar | I stopped short of faxing them a note saying "STFU DIMWITS" |
| 03:33.42 | Dagmar | That's about as an elaborate a response as such nonsense really requires. |
| 03:34.40 | Dagmar | If my parents ask me about it, I probably will. |
| 03:35.44 | Dagmar | In case you're wondering what I'm talking about and didn't see the latest round of "dear god, the insanity" it's at http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article6169488.ece |
| 03:35.51 | ScytheBlade1 | whoa whoa whoa now |
| 03:35.59 | ScytheBlade1 | I've got -every- device here ipv6 enabled! |
| 03:36.06 | Dagmar | "While the net itself will ultimately survive, Ritter said that waves of disruption would begin to emerge next year, when computers would jitter and freeze." |
| 03:36.09 | ScytheBlade1 | ipv4 is going to buuuuuuurrrnnnnnnn! |
| 03:36.13 | ZorbaTHut | oh no cyberspace is filling up |
| 03:36.17 | ZorbaTHut | the tubes might get clogged! |
| 03:36.34 | Dagmar | There's a reason I was on the radio a week before Y2K screaming about "FLAMING COMPUTERS FALLING FROM TEH SKY TO KILL US ALL" |
| 03:36.37 | ScytheBlade1 | tbh, if I didn't have such a technical interest in it |
| 03:36.48 | Dagmar | ...and it's becuase it's completely off-the-charts insane. |
| 03:36.50 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd be cool with keeping millions of people behind NAT and inherently away from my networks |
| 03:36.56 | Torhal | Dagmar: Too many fuckwits. Blargh. |
| 03:36.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Less noobs polluting my games |
| 03:37.33 | Torhal | Dagmar: My favorite pic of 1999 was a handgun with the caption "Y2K...I'd rather be looting." |
| 03:37.55 | Dagmar | Too right |
| 03:38.16 | Dagmar | Some of my co-workers actually sat in the DC and hand-held some of the more panicky managers that night. |
| 03:38.52 | Dagmar | Frankly, of larger concern was that the Bull mainframe (there's a reason you've never heard of them) might actually catch fire |
| 03:39.23 | Torhal | Dagmar: Was the cooling system written in COBOL? :D |
| 03:39.44 | Dagmar | No the thing was just damn OLD and the people over there laughed at us when we asked them if it was Y2K compliant |
| 03:40.08 | Dagmar | The thing was the only one of it's kind still being fed power in the united states by a few years |
| 03:40.17 | Torhal | Heh |
| 03:40.23 | Dagmar | ...and it was only being fed power because no one was real sure which circuit it was on. |
| 03:41.09 | Wobin | goddamn vent |
| 03:41.13 | Wobin | Offtanking razorscale |
| 03:41.16 | Dagmar | They got someone to sort that out about a week after, but it still took another two years to get things squared away so that we could have crazy men with saws come in and take it out |
| 03:41.26 | Wobin | and the last message I hear once she's down is "Oh, she's at 79%" |
| 03:41.29 | Torhal | Well, I would imagine finding the power supply for a semi-truck-sized computer system would be a tad difficult. |
| 03:41.37 | Wobin | then a whole chain of "Wob, taunt her off me now..." |
| 03:41.51 | Wobin | I'm glad I know this fight enough to taunt when appropriate =P |
| 03:41.53 | Dagmar | pats Wobin on the shoulder |
| 03:41.54 | Torhal | Wobin: Vent pwned you. |
| 03:42.04 | Torhal | Pisses me off. |
| 03:42.08 | ZorbaTHut | auriaya is destroying us :( |
| 03:42.18 | Dagmar | Torhal: Kind of a matter of it was so damn large there was a LOT under it |
| 03:42.20 | Torhal | ZorbaTHut: Write RaidHelper! |
| 03:42.30 | ZorbaTHut | it already exists, it's called dbm :P |
| 03:42.36 | Torhal | Heh |
| 03:42.44 | Dagmar | ...and you don't just casually cut power cables as thick as your wrist. ..not if you want to keep your job and/or fingers/limbs. |
| 03:44.35 | ScytheBlade1 | http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4980 the comments on that bug scare me |
| 03:46.01 | ScytheBlade1 | mostly how the final resolution came out |
| 03:46.31 | Dagmar | It's whatcha call a "ecclesiastic argument" |
| 03:46.38 | Dagmar | not *quite* a holy war |
| 03:46.50 | ScytheBlade1 | No, no not quite |
| 03:46.51 | ScytheBlade1 | But wow |
| 03:47.00 | Dagmar | That it has virtually no impact ont he real world just makes them fight harder to get it right |
| 03:47.35 | Dagmar | Comment #18 by Drepper I think is referring to the fixes I remember going in |
| 03:48.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm really curious just how this debian eglibc transition will work out now |
| 03:48.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Actually I'm more scared than curious, I don't want my laptop to die a terrible death |
| 03:48.17 | ScytheBlade1 | I <3 my laptop |
| 03:48.37 | ZorbaTHut | I'm really looking forward to getting rid of glibc. the future is bright: we're replacing gcc and glibc |
| 03:48.52 | Dagmar | lol it's funny to see forum trolls hitting bugzillas now tho |
| 03:49.01 | Dagmar | Soon we'll have to add reputation systems to bug trackers |
| 03:49.11 | ScytheBlade1 | I just hope it isn't that painful (@glibc) |
| 03:49.18 | ScytheBlade1 | And lol @ reputation systems on bug trackers |
| 03:49.56 | Dagmar | It was a "deep problem" which was composed of both broken userspace software, and some gimpyness in the OS |
| 03:50.40 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@c-68-62-175-169.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 03:50.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 03:50.52 | ScytheBlade1 | and uh, where are we replacing gcc? |
| 03:50.58 | Dagmar | Keep in mind they're basically arguing about how packets to localhost should be routed. |
| 03:51.39 | ScytheBlade1 | I heard about the _kernel_ possibly getting their own compiler, designed to do little else than build the kernel |
| 03:51.42 | ScytheBlade1 | But nothing else |
| 03:51.53 | Dagmar | I think that's mainly dying off |
| 03:52.16 | Dagmar | Around 2.9 gcc days there was a spate of weird gcc behaviours and bugs that was causing a lot of grief |
| 03:52.39 | ScytheBlade1 | true |
| 03:52.53 | ZorbaTHut | scythe, LLVM/Clang |
| 03:53.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 03:53.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes, that |
| 03:53.21 | ZorbaTHut | they're already planning to use it as the primary bsd compiler, so it oughta move up in functionality quickly at this point |
| 03:54.05 | Dagmar | ...or cause a lot of really geeky bloodshed. |
| 03:54.16 | Dagmar | Watch 'em fork over it, again |
| 04:07.45 | airtonix | [sound of plane going over head] |
| 04:08.01 | airtonix | what was that? |
| 04:08.15 | Torhal | airtonix: And just as you said that, a plane actually went overhead. |
| 04:08.17 | Torhal | ... |
| 04:08.34 | airtonix | i r in ur....[stabs leet demon] |
| 04:10.01 | Arrowmaster | bloodshed isnt really a compiler last time i looked at it |
| 04:17.15 | Adys | full of win |
| 04:17.16 | Adys | http://derrenbrownart.com/blog/?p=1816 |
| 04:21.58 | Dagmar | I've no idea WTF that sign is about |
| 04:25.25 | Torhal | Dagmar: Win, apparently. |
| 04:25.28 | Torhal | shrugs. |
| 04:31.28 | Dagmar | Oh! It's _that_ Derren Brown |
| 04:31.40 | Dagmar | That sick bastard who pulls pranks we'd get sued cross-eyed for in the US |
| 04:31.47 | Dagmar | ...sooo jealous |
| 04:35.40 | Adys | Dagmar: watch an evening of wonders |
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| 05:11.37 | Shirik | holy shit |
| 05:11.56 | Shirik | Okay, so for the first time yesterday I did Vezax, Yogg-Saron, and Mimiron with a guild that already has a ton of experience with them |
| 05:12.20 | Corrodias | cool |
| 05:12.31 | Shirik | I was already known as the top healer on the realm and just switched to them, but I still felt the need to prove myself. Unfortunately I did poorly on Vezax and Mimiron as I was learning the fight, and so got outhealed by more than I would have liked |
| 05:12.44 | Shirik | I just found out how to look at the Yogg-Saron fights, though, which WWS failed at parsing |
| 05:13.08 | Shirik | I nearly doubled all of the other healers' numbers |
| 05:13.14 | Shirik | So I'm happy again |
| 05:13.18 | Corrodias | that's pretty impressive |
| 05:14.00 | Shirik | of course, numbers mean little in healing |
| 05:14.06 | Shirik | but it's still something I look at just for an overview |
| 05:14.55 | Shirik | let's see how I did on the last Yogg-saron fight where I died about 40% in |
| 05:15.22 | Shirik | aww, #4, but I still beat a bunch |
| 05:15.41 | Shirik | oh well |
| 05:15.43 | Shirik | does a dance |
| 05:23.28 | airtonix | shirik, only thing that means anything to me in regards to numbers and healing is wether or not i am providing divine aegis enough and wether or not my shields are returning me the mana i need |
| 05:23.43 | Shirik | heh |
| 05:23.43 | Nechckn_AFK | please keep your clothes on the next time you do the Shidance. |
| 05:23.50 | Shirik | I'm not disc :) |
| 05:23.51 | Nechckn_AFK | I am not tipping you |
| 05:24.03 | airtonix | comment was made in naxx last night from a druid: i heal 7k in my sleep, and my reply was, i prevent 7k dmg in my sleep |
| 05:24.04 | Corrodias | does not spend mana on actually CASTING healing spells. thus, with perfect mana efficiency, he beats airtonix. |
| 05:24.06 | Shirik | Nechckn_AFK you said you liked it :( |
| 05:24.22 | Shirik | airtonix :) |
| 05:24.27 | Nechckn_AFK | Only when it's in the champagne room, buddy. |
| 05:24.38 | Nechckn_AFK | ;-P |
| 05:27.34 | airtonix | restorative healing vs preventative healing, apart from the way health is nurtured, is there really a difference in the outcome? |
| 05:27.45 | airtonix | i dont think there is |
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| 05:28.06 | ZorbaTHut | they work as a team |
| 05:28.14 | airtonix | true |
| 05:28.17 | airtonix | this new legendary hammer in ulduar might help bring focus on that |
| 05:28.19 | ZorbaTHut | preventative healing is incredibly strong as long as there's a strong restorative backup also |
| 05:28.25 | airtonix | yes |
| 05:28.44 | airtonix | i feel more effective when i work as a team |
| 05:29.19 | airtonix | i only ask that my raid leader and other priests are aware of how to best make use of me |
| 05:29.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 05:30.08 | airtonix | new topic, tooltipexchange. has anyone been using it since wotlk? |
| 05:31.03 | Dezzimal | airtonix: there are a few fights in ulduar where preempative healing is really beginning to shine, thorim hardmode on the main tanks |
| 05:31.07 | Dezzimal | and freya hardmode on your raid |
| 05:31.51 | Dezzimal | in thorim your tank can just get frontloaded for a billion damage, so having that extra 2 or 3k health from a crit-heal shield off a disc priest is money |
| 05:32.18 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I'm really wishing we had a disc priest in ulduar right now |
| 05:32.45 | Dezzimal | basically preempative healing increases your tank's effective health giving restorative healers time to react |
| 05:32.55 | Dezzimal | but really theres no reacting on thorim its spam till you drop |
| 05:32.57 | ZorbaTHut | do disc priests have any aoe shields? |
| 05:33.08 | Dezzimal | no, power word: barrier didn't go through |
| 05:33.21 | ZorbaTHut | pity, I was hoping for some kind of 2-5 minute panic button shield |
| 05:33.26 | Dezzimal | but you can shield 5 people in about 7 seconds because of borrowed time |
| 05:33.49 | ZorbaTHut | oh nice, we do have a discipline priest, I didn't even realize |
| 05:33.51 | ZorbaTHut | alrighty then |
| 05:34.19 | Dezzimal | basically for hardmode freya you want to be watching for ground tremor cooldown, which does ~12k raid damage |
| 05:34.28 | ZorbaTHut | man, my guild leaders have done a real good job of balancing healers. two holy priests, one disc priest, two holy pallies, one resto shaman, one resto druid |
| 05:34.33 | ZorbaTHut | we've got the whole variety pack |
| 05:34.35 | Dezzimal | you can knock 6.5k off that with a well geared disc priest shielding a bunch of people |
| 05:34.44 | ZorbaTHut | man, we're stuck on normal mode auriaya, don't even tell me about hard mode freya :P |
| 05:35.46 | Dezzimal | heh, gl with those cats |
| 05:36.22 | ZorbaTHut | we've finally got the initial pull down smoothly, but the feral defender is giving us huge trouble :( |
| 05:36.40 | ZorbaTHut | I think our current tactic will work, but we only got two tries before calling it for the night. tomorrow. |
| 05:37.01 | Dezzimal | with the pummels and stuff, I really don't know what sort of advice to give in regards to that thing |
| 05:37.06 | Dezzimal | its annoying :( |
| 05:37.35 | Gnarfoz | it's stunnable ;O |
| 05:37.50 | ZorbaTHut | gnarfoz, dimishing returns kicks in pretty hard |
| 05:38.16 | ZorbaTHut | *diminishing |
| 05:38.20 | ZorbaTHut | I missed an entire syllable there |
| 05:40.13 | airtonix | ZorbaTHut, closest to aoe shield is divine aegis procing on holynova and prayer of healing |
| 05:40.37 | airtonix | my holy nova can crit for 4k |
| 05:41.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 05:41.04 | airtonix | pity its group only |
| 05:41.34 | airtonix | sine its so hard to get most raid leaders to understand why i ought to be grouped with all melee |
| 05:41.37 | airtonix | since* |
| 05:42.10 | airtonix | best thing i like about holy nova is each cast only causes 3 points of threat |
| 05:52.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Carepolice (n=nnscript@92.Red-81-39-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 05:57.28 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (n=augustl@s0034-0015.dsl.start.no) |
| 05:59.34 | Arrowmaster | "We appreciate the time you spent applying with us; however, we will not be extending you an offer of employment at this time. We will retain your application on file for a period of one year." |
| 05:59.36 | Arrowmaster | :( |
| 06:02.24 | Torhal | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:02.36 | Torhal | He makes another account after being banned, Dolby unbans the original, and the guy proceeds to continually flame Cairenn and everyone else at WoWI's integrity. |
| 06:02.46 | Zhinjio | TORHAL! |
| 06:02.50 | Torhal | Zhinjio: Bwah? |
| 06:02.55 | Zhinjio | (was that my out loud voice)? |
| 06:02.59 | Zhinjio | hey man |
| 06:03.06 | Torhal | Zhinjio: Definitely wasn't your inside voice. |
| 06:03.37 | Arrowmaster | from what i've heard of their hiring practices i think my job application was ignored because of the personality test they wanted me to complete |
| 06:04.23 | Torhal | Zhinjio: New LibQTip today. Merged Elkano's scrollable branch in and Adirelle added an auto-hiding mechanism. |
| 06:06.00 | Arrowmaster | also who the fuck sends out a plain text only email as base64 encoded html |
| 06:06.52 | *** join/#wowuidev neocryptek (n=neocrypt@76.178.168.168) |
| 06:07.15 | Shirik | Reasons you should not force super() to be the first line in a constructor if it's present: |
| 06:07.26 | Shirik | You force people to write lines as long as this |
| 06:07.28 | Shirik | super(org.jdesktop.application.Application.getInstance(com.mmoui.manager.Main.class).getContext().getResourceMap(UpdateData.class).getIcon("donation.icon")); |
| 06:13.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@60.53.51.208) |
| 06:13.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 06:14.28 | Shirik | hi Cide |
| 06:14.31 | Shirik | ok guys, inc spam |
| 06:14.39 | Cide | hi |
| 06:14.41 | Shirik | 1: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/c587b8e68a8505637d548a1ff575e562.png |
| 06:14.49 | Shirik | 2: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/e9879364bdd511b7c6721116bbac0910.png |
| 06:14.57 | Shirik | 3: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/8c851f60e673656d85ca1e9d954ba489.png |
| 06:15.04 | Shirik | 4: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/cfb51ea502c5976b75a982b09801d9b3.png |
| 06:15.09 | Shirik | which placement of the "Donation" button is the best? |
| 06:17.14 | Cide | 1 or 3 definitely |
| 06:17.35 | Shirik | I liked 1 but Dolby and Cairenn liked 3 |
| 06:17.52 | Cide | leaning towards 1 |
| 06:18.00 | Cairenn | I like 3, but with a bit more space between the donation icon and the download button |
| 06:18.26 | Cide | I think it'd look weird with much more space, but maybe a few pixels |
| 06:18.31 | Cide | I still prefer 1 I think |
| 06:18.33 | Cairenn | 1 is not bad either though - again, I'm make there be a bit more space between though |
| 06:18.44 | Cairenn | s/I'm/I'd |
| 06:18.58 | Cairenn | not saying a lot more, just a touch |
| 06:19.07 | Cairenn | right now they look like they're "running into" each other |
| 06:19.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 06:20.43 | Fisker- | don't you know who i am? |
| 06:21.02 | Cide | definitely saying 1 Shirik |
| 06:21.08 | Cide | rename your bot :/ |
| 06:21.15 | Shirik | :P |
| 06:21.25 | Fisker- | 1 or 3 |
| 06:22.00 | Dolby | 1 makes them look like bullet points |
| 06:22.06 | Cide | I disagree |
| 06:22.08 | Dolby | 3 makes then easier to click |
| 06:22.20 | Cide | besides, an icon in front of a row is a pretty common design |
| 06:22.21 | Cairenn | I'm with Dolby |
| 06:22.28 | Cide | see: forum threads |
| 06:22.32 | Cairenn | my first choice is 3, my second is 1 |
| 06:22.35 | Fisker- | Yeah |
| 06:22.39 | Fisker- | but that also makes it a bit confusing |
| 06:22.39 | Dolby | this is for donations |
| 06:22.43 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:22.46 | Dolby | its not a thread icon |
| 06:22.52 | Cide | it's a common and recognized design |
| 06:23.03 | Cide | both work though |
| 06:23.10 | Cide | but my battery is dying |
| 06:23.11 | Fisker- | But you don't click on a thread icon to donate money though? :P |
| 06:23.14 | Cide | see you in 2-3 days |
| 06:23.18 | Dolby | personally I'd overlook the icons on 1 |
| 06:23.28 | Dolby | because it looks like its part of the design |
| 06:23.41 | Cide | it is part of the design :P |
| 06:23.42 | Cide | later |
| 06:23.55 | Fisker- | infact why doesn't it just have a "Donate" with the cash envelope? |
| 06:24.18 | Zhinjio | Shirik: I like 1. From a design perspective, its an ancillary part of the functional ... ... er, the functions you want ready access to. Thus, having it fully left or right is probably most intuitive. |
| 06:24.23 | Zhinjio | imho |
| 06:24.52 | Dolby | the idea is to get users to click on the donate icon and notice its there right? |
| 06:25.12 | Fisker- | That design doesn't work unless the app is fullsize Zhinjio |
| 06:26.21 | Shirik | well |
| 06:26.21 | ZorbaTHut | if you actually want people to donate, none of those will work well |
| 06:26.32 | ZorbaTHut | people will visually filter it out within days. |
| 06:26.36 | Shirik | while you guys debate over this, I'm going to figure uot why clicking it doesn't work |
| 06:26.41 | Zhinjio | grins. |
| 06:26.54 | ZorbaTHut | also, it'll weight donations heavily towards addons at the top of the list. |
| 06:27.13 | ZorbaTHut | goes to rename his addon to AaaaaQuestHelper |
| 06:28.20 | Cairenn | anyone know if there is a character limit on comments on WowInsider? |
| 06:29.04 | ZorbaTHut | a good donation reminder has to be nonintrusive, but unpredictable, and weighted fairly among all the possible donation places. |
| 06:30.06 | Shirik | ow |
| 06:30.19 | Shirik | ok, clicking it didn't cause the browser to pop up to the right window the first time, or the second |
| 06:30.23 | Shirik | so I clicked it another 8 times |
| 06:30.29 | Shirik | then 8 chrome tabs poped up >.> |
| 06:31.36 | Fisker- | ownt |
| 06:34.06 | Cairenn | Torhal: deleted your post, personal atttack |
| 06:34.57 | Torhal | Cairenn: Oh? I thought I was making an observation. Unless you're referring to the "troll" portion. :( |
| 06:35.56 | Cairenn | meh, undeleted it |
| 06:36.32 | Torhal | causes unintentional havok! |
| 06:37.22 | Torhal | I can remove the troll reference, because that is slightly more attack than observation - but is both :) |
| 06:37.23 | Duman | blarg |
| 06:39.40 | Cairenn | it's fine, just leave it |
| 06:39.54 | Torhal | kk |
| 06:40.09 | Shirik | pets Cairenn |
| 06:40.29 | Fisker- | Wobin my friend |
| 06:42.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 06:44.53 | Wobin | zomg, could it be? No WM related posts on the first page of the UI forum? |
| 06:45.35 | Torhal | Wobin: It's there, just in dumbass code. |
| 06:45.46 | Torhal | Well, maybe. |
| 06:45.54 | Torhal | ...ok, I just made that up. |
| 06:57.30 | Fisker- | Wobin maybe the mods banned all of them? :D |
| 06:57.38 | Fisker- | Anyways you asked your friend about Argent Tournament? |
| 06:57.58 | Wobin | we can only hope |
| 06:59.38 | Wobin | Fisker-: ah, he's going to complete it all tomorrow evening |
| 06:59.50 | Wobin | I'll check then |
| 06:59.56 | Dagmar | I wonder... if you've championed all four cities, do their dailies come back? |
| 07:03.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-8-55.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:09.27 | Fisker- | Dagmar that was my question :P |
| 07:11.16 | Dagmar | I may have boned myself out of some perfectly good faction cows by championing a new city so soon |
| 07:11.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Etanol (n=etanol@hus134a.bobbnet.com) |
| 07:11.46 | Etanol | WHAT? |
| 07:11.49 | Etanol | FRANCE IN TOPIC? |
| 07:11.53 | Etanol | why dont you just SHOOT me? |
| 07:13.14 | Fisker- | shoots Etanol |
| 07:13.16 | Wobin | I think the term is "French" |
| 07:14.22 | Etanol | no |
| 07:14.27 | Etanol | france invaded the topic |
| 07:15.13 | Wobin | France ... invaded? |
| 07:15.49 | Wobin | perhaps you meant "France surrendered the topic" =P |
| 07:15.49 | Fisker- | France haven't invaded shit ever |
| 07:15.56 | Fisker- | stole my idea Wobin |
| 07:16.09 | Etanol | well |
| 07:16.13 | Etanol | how come they are in the topic then? |
| 07:16.19 | Etanol | did you let them? :O |
| 07:17.07 | Wobin | Shirik did |
| 07:17.08 | Fisker- | so |
| 07:17.08 | Wobin | blame him |
| 07:17.10 | Fisker- | The Sims 3 went |
| 07:17.10 | Fisker- | gold |
| 07:17.15 | Fisker- | you guys excited?! |
| 07:17.20 | Fisker- | (hoho) |
| 07:17.26 | Wobin | ~x fr en la fonction majuscule est commande de croisière pour frais |
| 07:17.30 | Dagmar | That depends on whether or not there will be more hookers. |
| 07:17.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 07:17.50 | Fisker- | your mom is a hooker |
| 07:18.14 | Shirik | (14:37:03) (Jamash) ~x en fr CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL |
| 07:18.14 | Shirik | (14:37:06) (purl) la fonction majuscule est commande de croisière pour frais |
| 07:18.41 | Shirik | one of those things were you just had to be there |
| 07:19.13 | Etanol | aha :D |
| 07:20.28 | Arrowmaster | purl doesnt understand utf8 |
| 07:24.42 | Fisker- | no u |
| 07:25.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nchatzil@d64-180-70-86.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 07:25.16 | Wobin | Cairenn: http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll305/chaoswolf1982/Jareth-Liono.jpg |
| 07:25.28 | Cairenn | lol |
| 07:26.21 | Fisker- | bawww |
| 07:26.25 | Etanol | my third time compiling wine now :) |
| 07:26.56 | Etanol | if it doesn't work with this version.... |
| 07:29.44 | Fisker- | I'd feel for you |
| 07:29.54 | Fisker- | But then i found out there's this thing called Windows |
| 07:30.03 | Fisker- | it's the best non-emulator for windows |
| 07:32.44 | Cairenn | http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2009/05/zeus-botnet-hits-the-kill-switch-takes-down-100000-pcs.ars |
| 07:33.51 | Dagmar | Wait, is that recent? |
| 07:34.29 | Cairenn | Last updated 8 May 09, 12:41 PM CT |
| 07:34.41 | Fisker- | that's old news |
| 07:35.56 | Dagmar | Ah it's only a matter of time now |
| 07:39.04 | Dagmar | I just installed W7 godhelpme |
| 07:41.11 | Spellbinder | not even god can help you now son |
| 07:41.16 | Corrodias | everybody i know of who has tried windows 7 seems to like it |
| 07:41.31 | Corrodias | i don't like the NAME, and i am skeptical of the product, but i haven't tried it yet. |
| 07:41.48 | Dagmar | THe sad thing is that I upgraded my laptop to Ubuntu 9 and aesthetically, they're about on par with each other |
| 07:42.32 | Dagmar | Aero's effects seem a little overdone compared to compiz |
| 07:43.02 | Dagmar | Now to see if I can just copy WoW into the user folder and it'll figure out the rest. |
| 07:46.53 | Shirik | Java used to get pissed at aero |
| 07:47.13 | Shirik | When you stop a swing frame in a debugger, and then windows takes over with its "Not responding" crap |
| 07:47.21 | Shirik | when you release the debugger, the frame is stuck permanently |
| 07:47.28 | Shirik | you can't close it, Windows can't even tell who owns it |
| 07:47.34 | Shirik | you can shut down the app and it will stay there |
| 07:47.48 | Shirik | it was pretty awesome |
| 07:48.09 | Shirik | I haven't been able to reproduce it on 7, sadly. But I could easily do so on Vista |
| 07:49.27 | Dagmar | I'm waiting to see big holes tear in my monitor or something |
| 07:50.32 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:51.40 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: i did something like that in xp with a cmd prompt once |
| 07:52.01 | Arrowmaster | it was fucking dead, no process in task manager |
| 07:52.12 | Arrowmaster | but the window still existed and i couldnt close it |
| 07:52.28 | Fisker- | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/714f77dd6c26d0be2d644fa0f63c2829.jpg <-this is my sadface |
| 07:52.52 | Shirik | wtf is a pegi |
| 07:53.01 | Fisker- | european rating system |
| 07:53.03 | Fisker- | i.e. ESRB |
| 08:00.48 | Gnarfoz | Fisker-: you're doing it wrong |
| 08:02.19 | Fisker- | naw Gnarfoz |
| 08:06.06 | Fisker- | I will harm you Gnarfoz |
| 08:06.21 | Gnarfoz | knowledge of your existance is harm enough |
| 08:07.16 | Fisker- | then you will tell me why i am doing it wrong |
| 08:09.27 | Fisker- | i hate you |
| 08:09.54 | Fisker- | One day you'll find yourself dead Gnarfoz |
| 08:11.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@ip68-3-137-183.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 08:17.12 | Gnarfoz | I doubt I ever will |
| 08:19.48 | Fisker- | yes you will Gnarfoz |
| 08:19.53 | Fisker- | Because i'll decapitate you |
| 08:19.59 | Fisker- | And you'll be alive for some seconds |
| 08:20.06 | Fisker- | but you're still very much dead |
| 08:23.24 | batrick | Shirik: chess sir |
| 08:24.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019116.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:25.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (n=TC@cpe-76-169-229-41.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 08:25.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Aiiane1 (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu) |
| 08:27.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=chatzill@wikia/Ose) |
| 08:28.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 08:31.31 | Fisker- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqfwNbB0QqQ <-I see they still advertise Incognito as a way to purchase gifts for your spouse |
| 08:32.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-150-16-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 08:35.28 | *** join/#wowuidev d87_ (n=x@host89-251-107-29.hnet.ru) |
| 08:37.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 09:10.24 | msou| | Does anyone can tell me how to complete only this quest.. at the final stage yet I die everytime by him |
| 09:10.29 | msou| | drukkuru's head |
| 09:10.36 | msou| | Betrayal |
| 09:22.30 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:22.38 | Tem | Use the domination rod to control one of the trolls |
| 09:22.42 | Tem | and use it to kill him |
| 09:22.53 | Tem | make sure to use the heal ability every time it's off cooldown |
| 09:23.05 | Tem | don't stop moving |
| 09:23.21 | Tem | if your pet is going to die, be ready to control a new one |
| 09:24.26 | Fisker- | Why don't you try and stop me? |
| 09:33.48 | Fisker- | kd3 my friend |
| 09:34.15 | Fisker- | btw Cairenn :3 |
| 09:34.26 | Fisker- | Courtesy backfire: 12. Will it datamine the way other clients do? |
| 09:34.57 | Cairenn | ? |
| 09:36.23 | Fisker- | Sounds like all clients do it :P |
| 09:36.33 | Cairenn | not meant to |
| 09:36.36 | Cairenn | just says that some do |
| 09:36.41 | Fisker- | i know :P |
| 09:36.55 | Cairenn | I'll add the word "some" |
| 09:45.10 | Ose | who's on PTR? |
| 09:46.42 | Fisker- | i'm on PTR! |
| 09:47.13 | Etanol | haha |
| 09:47.19 | Etanol | good morning again! |
| 09:47.30 | Etanol | overslept 3 hrs just because! |
| 09:49.36 | Fisker- | oh yeah? |
| 09:54.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019116.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 09:55.43 | Cairenn | I fucking give up |
| 10:02.03 | Ose | Fisker-: can you explain exactly what they are doing regarding the Argent Tournament mounts? |
| 10:05.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc1 (n=Antiarc@70.167.195.98) |
| 10:06.33 | Taroven | ~seen cncfanatics |
| 10:06.34 | purl | cncfanatics <n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 20h 25m 21s ago, saying: ' /nick Lopeppepsi tbh'. |
| 10:12.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (n=Sixen@173-25-20-69.client.mchsi.com) |
| 10:12.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@76-231-27-217.lightspeed.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 10:30.24 | Fisker- | sure Ose |
| 10:30.29 | Fisker- | they are making 5 new mounts |
| 10:30.46 | Fisker- | The 5 old mounts will be available for 5 seals + 500g provided you are exalted with the faction |
| 10:30.53 | Ose | ok |
| 10:31.03 | Fisker- | Those who bought the old mounts will automatically get the new ones when the patch is released |
| 10:33.56 | Ose | any screens of the new ones? |
| 10:34.03 | Ose | checks mmo-champion |
| 10:34.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@60.49.122.0) |
| 10:34.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 10:35.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 10:35.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 10:35.59 | Bibi | yeah good idea, this MMO-Champion guy should have a 3.1.2 category in his left menu |
| 10:36.02 | Grum | by the time they release it everyone should be exalted with all of them |
| 10:36.24 | Bibi | http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=52946.0 |
| 10:36.25 | Bibi | here you go Ose! |
| 10:36.32 | Ose | thanks |
| 10:39.16 | Fisker- | hey Bibi |
| 10:39.32 | Fisker- | How accurate is the translation in the topic? :3 |
| 10:40.12 | Bibi | translation of what in what? |
| 10:42.19 | Fisker- | the topic |
| 10:42.29 | Fisker- | la fonction majuscule est commande de croisière pour frais |
| 10:42.37 | Bibi | what the fuck? |
| 10:42.40 | Fisker- | "CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL" |
| 10:42.47 | Fisker- | ~x en fr CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL |
| 10:42.52 | Fisker- | :3 |
| 10:43.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 10:43.03 | Bibi | we don't even have a translation for cruise control I think. |
| 10:43.09 | Fisker- | heh |
| 10:43.12 | Bibi | and we don't have one for cool. |
| 10:43.25 | Fisker- | you don't have one for victory either |
| 10:43.30 | Fisker- | highfives all the obvious trolls |
| 10:43.35 | Bibi | oh, french jokes, that's new. |
| 10:44.07 | Fisker- | Atleast you were not considered allied with the nazis :P |
| 10:45.37 | Cairenn|afk | if you guys wanna troll, go have at on this guy: http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/05/07/mmoui-minion-is-coming/1#comments (Vidi, he froths at the mouth nicely) |
| 10:46.52 | Fisker- | lol |
| 10:47.12 | Fisker- | I wonder how he gets by in life? |
| 10:47.15 | Fisker- | I mean, everything is free |
| 10:47.32 | Fisker- | You just need to take it |
| 10:49.26 | Zyndrome | he also believes in chemtrails |
| 10:55.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1c58bcad93d686b6) |
| 10:56.44 | Grum | Cairenn|afk: i wonder why people are so 'anti' stuff :D |
| 10:57.06 | Grum | i guess most people have no idea what WM really did and make 'other' stuff up in the process :D |
| 10:57.13 | Bibi | yeah seriously |
| 10:57.18 | Bibi | we should give more money to site owners |
| 10:57.33 | Bibi | my pool of gold is only half full and the summer is coming. |
| 10:57.36 | Grum | its funny how people stamp curse as evil but dont do the same with wowi |
| 10:58.05 | Grum | without curse many of these addons wouldnt even exist, wonder if they realise that :) |
| 10:58.17 | Grum | or at least not in their currente form |
| 10:58.19 | Grum | -e >< |
| 10:58.22 | Cairenn|afk | Grum: WoWI gets just as much crap |
| 10:58.28 | Grum | yeah i noticed |
| 10:58.34 | Grum | people really thing that bandwidth is free |
| 10:58.39 | Zyndrome | :3 |
| 10:58.50 | haste | they also believe that all authors want exposer of their add-ons |
| 10:58.53 | Cairenn|afk | and apparently that we are raking in the dough hand over fist |
| 10:58.55 | Grum | *think ... i wonder if they *ever* tried to get a line with decent bandwidth while allowing for insane traffic spikes |
| 10:59.01 | Zyndrome | they think that if the addons are free, the bandwidth is free, wooooooh! |
| 10:59.15 | Grum | Cairenn|afk: i bet neither curse nor wowi has cash spare |
| 10:59.25 | Cairenn|afk | and keeping it all to ourselves without doing a single thing for the authors |
| 10:59.29 | Grum | and all they do get is invested into the infrastructure nearly instantly |
| 11:00.07 | Grum | any patch day is a week of 'slashdotting' |
| 11:00.16 | Cairenn|afk | yup |
| 11:00.17 | Grum | they have no clue what amount of money gets wasted then |
| 11:00.40 | Grum | unless you have a good contributer with a lot of BW spare, but otherwise |
| 11:00.49 | Grum | also, it so much fun to see how much they think advertisements make |
| 11:01.26 | Grum | unless things have changed over the years, but a few years back a couple of million views a day wouldnt make you roll in money o.O |
| 11:01.34 | Grum | i doubt adrewards have gone up meanwhile |
| 11:01.57 | Cairenn|afk | http://s.wowinterface.com/storage/cairennsmilies/mad.gif |
| 11:02.24 | Grum | Cairenn|afk: what amount of costs are covered by ads-income? is it substantial? |
| 11:02.28 | haste | nice that you have your own smiley pool :D |
| 11:02.39 | Cairenn|afk | haste: heheh |
| 11:03.00 | Cairenn|afk | Grum: I don't know for sure any more |
| 11:03.21 | Grum | rough guessimate? is it covering mostly or barely? |
| 11:04.24 | Cairenn|afk | don't know, Zam deals with it all now |
| 11:04.42 | Grum | what did it use to be? |
| 11:05.02 | Cairenn|afk | it was never my end to deal with |
| 11:09.07 | Wobin | wow, vidi is a little vitriolic |
| 11:10.32 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:10.41 | foxlit | I hate the OptionPanel framework. |
| 11:10.47 | Cairenn|afk | yeah, I'm giving up trying to talk to him |
| 11:10.59 | Cairenn|afk | no matter what I say, he twists it all around to suit himself |
| 11:11.19 | foxlit | Its pcalls are made of evil and re-processed kittens. |
| 11:14.18 | foxlit | high-fives Cairenn|afk. |
| 11:14.22 | foxlit | The conversation -- we killed it. |
| 11:14.30 | Cairenn|afk | heh |
| 11:14.46 | foxlit | (I presume there was one before I joined, at least) |
| 11:15.09 | Cairenn|afk | not really much of one |
| 11:15.14 | Cairenn|afk | I was whining |
| 11:15.40 | Cairenn|afk | it was pretty dead earlier |
| 11:15.42 | Legorol | wowi is teh sucks and evul, kills kittenz and leeches our addonz, plus they have ads on their pages! |
| 11:16.13 | Legorol | hugs Cairenn|afk |
| 11:16.19 | Legorol | whines are always welcome and sometimes needed |
| 11:16.22 | Cairenn|afk | hugs Legorol |
| 11:20.57 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@121.45.29.214) |
| 11:25.17 | Wobin | my god, the ad whining |
| 11:25.24 | Wobin | ZOMG THAT'S NOT A WOW AD! |
| 11:25.28 | Wobin | BAN THEM! |
| 11:26.04 | Wobin | Cairenn|afk: I just posted that if he doesn't want to pay for anything he can get for free, he has no stake in this debate and should bugger off |
| 11:26.10 | Wobin | (in nicer language of course) |
| 11:26.16 | Cairenn|afk | hugs Wobin |
| 11:27.14 | Cairenn|afk | one of the things I can't get is this idea that somehow we don't do any work for the community either - that we just sit back, do nothing and rake in the cash on the sweat of your guys' work |
| 11:28.08 | Cairenn|afk | yeah, we wouldn't have anything to offer if you guys didn't want to host with us |
| 11:28.14 | Cairenn|afk | but we work too |
| 11:29.42 | Cairenn|afk | anyway, whatever, I need to stop stressing, I think D.olby's about to start banning me from the site if I don't :p |
| 11:32.24 | krka | stop listening to retards arguing on the internet, it's not good for you |
| 11:32.46 | Cairenn|afk | hugs krka |
| 11:36.28 | Wobin | what's the word that means 'standing within a community' |
| 11:36.48 | Wobin | as in "You have no <xxx> in this community to make statements like that" |
| 11:37.31 | krka | authority? |
| 11:37.37 | Wobin | no |
| 11:37.50 | Cairenn|afk | status? |
| 11:37.54 | Wobin | almost |
| 11:37.55 | Cairenn|afk | standing works |
| 11:38.03 | krka | reputation? |
| 11:38.18 | Wobin | Basically I'm trying to say "You are a nobody, you have no right to make demands" |
| 11:38.28 | krka | "friends" |
| 11:38.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah1 (n=Ryan_L@adsl-242-180-236.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 11:38.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah1] by ChanServ |
| 11:38.40 | Wobin | hehe "You have no friends!" |
| 11:38.47 | Cairenn|afk | meh, don't want you guys stressing over it either |
| 11:38.54 | Cairenn|afk | I just need to blow off steam sometimes |
| 11:39.03 | krka | significance |
| 11:39.22 | krka | relevance |
| 11:39.30 | Cairenn|afk | and the last [how long has it been now?] has been absolute hell on all of us, with one thing and another |
| 11:39.47 | krka | 28 years for me :P |
| 11:39.54 | Cairenn|afk | krka: heh *hug* |
| 11:40.03 | krka | j-7k |
| 11:40.08 | krka | oops |
| 11:40.17 | krka | hard to type with baby on lap |
| 11:40.27 | Cairenn|afk | :) |
| 11:41.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@89.243.252.83) |
| 11:43.13 | krka | Wobin: you haven't made any contributions to this community |
| 11:43.27 | Wobin | =( |
| 11:43.32 | Wobin | takes his toys and goes home |
| 11:43.48 | krka | someone had to say it |
| 11:43.56 | krka | we've all been thinking it |
| 11:48.02 | Wobin | I've still more downloads than FAIAP =P |
| 11:48.43 | krka | harsh! |
| 11:49.09 | Wobin | ^^ |
| 11:50.20 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@ti0019a380-1138.bb.online.no) |
| 12:12.40 | airtonix | if i talk to brann after the iron council what happens? |
| 12:12.52 | airtonix | will i accidentally the raid? |
| 12:13.08 | Zyndrome | no |
| 12:13.39 | airtonix | just another dialouge? |
| 12:16.50 | Zyndrome | yup |
| 12:16.54 | Zyndrome | or several |
| 12:17.10 | Zyndrome | which are entertaining |
| 12:18.18 | Industrial | uh, theres an event at UC? |
| 12:20.35 | Industrial | its been run over :s |
| 12:32.55 | Wobin | are you doing Wrathgate? =P |
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| 12:45.38 | Etanol | ~x bacon |
| 12:45.51 | Etanol | huh? no bacon? |
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| 12:55.21 | mikma | ~bacon |
| 12:55.22 | purl | from memory, bacon is a filling substance which will make you even fatter than you already are... Take my advice, bacon is a food for the gods or for underweight models such as that McBeal chick... |
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| 13:21.39 | Ose | what was the command to increase camera distance? |
| 13:30.39 | *** join/#wowuidev RockSlicer (n=kvirc@c-71-203-61-61.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 13:34.17 | Pneumatus | /console CameraDistanceMaxFactor 4 |
| 13:34.20 | Pneumatus | iirc |
| 13:35.23 | mikma | anyone has any ideas how can i create a tooltip, just like one that appears if you click your own name from combatlog |
| 13:39.01 | foxlit | magic! |
| 13:40.12 | mikma | woooo! |
| 13:40.21 | mikma | go go harry potter |
| 13:43.16 | Fisker- | slaps mikma around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:43.30 | Fisker- | this is why we can't have nice things |
| 13:43.39 | mikma | mirc slap. how original. |
| 13:44.07 | p3lim | mikma: its an itemref tooltip, take a look how tekkub's GreedBacon does it |
| 13:44.14 | Fisker- | yes mikma |
| 13:44.16 | Fisker- | very original |
| 13:44.41 | Pneumatus | nomnombacon |
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| 13:56.46 | Wobin | hm |
| 13:56.49 | Wobin | interesting: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/05/09/possible-beyond-good-evil-2-concept-footage/ |
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| 14:19.42 | Ose | "LFM NEED 8 HEALER AND 7 TANK AND 21 DPS TO black temple" |
| 14:19.56 | Ose | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:21.59 | zenzelezz | ah yes, the infamous 37-man BT |
| 14:33.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 14:49.22 | kd3 | neat: http://gizmodo.com/5246099/long%20exposure-shot-of-a-roombas-path-shows-beautifully-organized-chaos |
| 14:53.24 | Fisker- | i hate you to hell |
| 14:58.58 | Fisker- | damn kd3 |
| 14:59.05 | Fisker- | Roomba cleans the floor so you don't have to |
| 14:59.21 | Fisker- | In related news, the dishwasher cleans your dishes so you don't have to |
| 14:59.33 | Fisker- | The laundry machine cleans laundry so you don't have to |
| 14:59.35 | Fisker- | etc. |
| 14:59.36 | Fisker- | :3 |
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| 15:10.16 | AbsolutRayne | Yawnish |
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| 15:56.46 | p3lim | I want to make this string 'Text of %s' into just 'Text of' using gsub, anyone that can point me to some documentation on it? |
| 15:57.27 | p3lim | must also be able to handle more words than just 'Text of' because the string is localized |
| 16:00.25 | Shadowed | string.trim(string.gsub(text, "%%s", "")) ... ? |
| 16:00.39 | Aelobin | for pvp, is it only beneficial hitting the soft-cap of 5% hit? (for 2-handed) |
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| 16:03.40 | p3lim | thanks Shadowed |
| 16:04.21 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (n=augustl@s0034-0015.dsl.start.no) |
| 16:04.37 | mikma | string.match(text,"(.*):") |
| 16:04.52 | mikma | well, what shadowed said works best if there's no : |
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| 16:13.23 | Ackis | anyone live in any of these locations: http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/wow/en/OP/tournaments/article_blank.aspx?aid=5521 |
| 16:13.30 | Fisker- | yeah |
| 16:14.05 | Ackis | Fisker-: go there, get the death watcher and a) ebay it for like $100 or send it to me? :P |
| 16:20.09 | Fisker- | i don't live near any of those locations Ackis |
| 16:21.08 | Ackis | ~lart Fisker- |
| 16:21.08 | purl | takes a big bite out of Fisker-'s jugular vein |
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| 16:40.32 | cncfanatics | Taroven: ping |
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| 17:12.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Silversage (n=ericnick@ppp-71-139-195-12.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 17:13.02 | Silversage | Heyo. |
| 17:14.01 | Silversage | What is the easiest-to-configure, and most light-weight mod to get a huge audio or visual alert when my focus target starts to cast one particular spell? |
| 17:14.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Pharaunmizz (n=dmoy@97-116-138-171.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 17:21.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso| (n=Kaso@89.243.252.83) |
| 17:25.26 | Aelobin | anyone got a guestimate of how much goldz you get in northrend? :P |
| 17:25.31 | Aelobin | just from levelling i mean |
| 17:26.33 | Adys | kd3: ping |
| 17:27.34 | Fisker- | i hope his ping times out |
| 17:27.43 | Fisker- | or destination unreachable |
| 17:29.25 | Silversage | Aelobin: I'd guess about 5k. |
| 17:29.34 | Aelobin | hmm cool ty |
| 17:29.44 | Silversage | Repeat: What is the easiest-to-configure, and most light-weight mod to get a huge audio or visual alert when my focus target starts to cast one particular spell? |
| 17:31.11 | *** join/#wowuidev mib_htr1te (i=424b7abc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-db5ee327bccd78e4) |
| 17:35.00 | Pharaunmizz | What kind of alert? A cast bar, for instance? |
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| 17:41.14 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
| 17:47.23 | *** join/#wowuidev kluge (n=dsquare@S0106001b1168ce28.va.shawcable.net) |
| 17:54.27 | p3lim | lua> t = 'Text of %s'; print(string.format('^%s$', string.gsub(t, '%%s', '([^ ]+)'))) |
| 17:54.28 | lua_bot | p3lim: ^Text of ([^ ]+)$ |
| 17:54.44 | p3lim | ok works fine |
| 17:58.40 | Kaso| | why not use %S |
| 17:58.45 | Kaso| | instead of [^ ] |
| 17:59.22 | Silversage | Pharaunmizz: Don't really care. Audio, flashing screen, computer becomes instantly too hot to touch, w/. |
| 17:59.57 | Pharaunmizz | You could just use a cast bar addon like Quartz, but how lightweight do you need? |
| 18:00.58 | Fisker- | http://torrentfreak.com/images/bkdownload.jpg |
| 18:01.40 | Pharaunmizz | Cheap hamburgers = free digital information. |
| 18:01.43 | Pharaunmizz | Yes.... ok. |
| 18:04.15 | p3lim | Kaso|: Im no master, I just do what the interwebs tells me |
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| 18:04.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 18:06.29 | Silversage | Pharaunmizz: or maybe I could roll my own with a macro. |
| 18:06.36 | Silversage | But I can't see why this doesn't work: |
| 18:06.41 | Silversage | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.01 | Silversage | Ah. SetScript takes the frame as first arg. |
| 18:10.18 | Silversage | Nope. That's not enough to fix it. :( |
| 18:11.02 | Silversage | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:22.09 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@24.171.198.84) |
| 18:22.50 | p3lim | Silversage: :SetScript()'s 1st arg is the frame (self), 2nd is the event passed through, 3rd and beyond is the event arguments |
| 18:23.21 | Silversage | Yes. That's what I have... |
| 18:23.41 | End | you need another dummy variable |
| 18:23.47 | End | also focus should be lowercase |
| 18:23.49 | Silversage | SetScript(f, 'OnEvent', ...) is the same as f:SetScript('OnEvent', ...) |
| 18:24.00 | End | nono |
| 18:24.03 | End | on your handler |
| 18:24.07 | End | not :SetScript itself |
| 18:24.27 | Silversage | Would _ be the frame? |
| 18:24.31 | End | yes |
| 18:24.31 | Silversage | *Wouldn't |
| 18:24.34 | Adys | Anyone knows how to disable 3d sounds in wow? |
| 18:24.35 | End | but it also passes event |
| 18:24.39 | Adys | they hurt really bad with headphones |
| 18:24.42 | End | so u isn't the unit |
| 18:24.45 | End | it's the event name |
| 18:24.50 | End | UNIT_SPELLCAST_START |
| 18:25.10 | Silversage | Ah. That makes sense. |
| 18:25.53 | Silversage | Aha. I didn't notice the parenthetic comment for http://www.wowwiki.com/API_Frame_SetScript |
| 18:26.12 | p3lim | local f = CreateFrame('Frame'); f:SetScript('OnEvent', function(self, event, unit, ...) if(unit == 'focus') then print(...) end end) f:RegisterEvent('UNIT_SPELLCAST_SENT') |
| 18:27.43 | p3lim | Adys: check sound settings? |
| 18:28.12 | Adys | did :P |
| 18:29.05 | p3lim | check console variables or your soundcard settings |
| 18:32.31 | theorbtwo | I think the sound settings in WoW have a "force headphones mode" setting, but I'm not in front of the right box to check right now. |
| 18:41.47 | Hjalte | theorbtwo: It does. |
| 18:44.55 | Silversage | Thanks: /run local f=CreateFrame('Frame');f:SetScript('OnEvent', function(_,e,u,s) if (u=='focus' and s=='Greater Heal')then CombatText_AddMessage(s, COMBAT_TEXT_SCROLL_FUNCTION,1,1,1,"sticky")end end);f:RegisterEvent('UNIT_SPELLCAST_START') |
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| 19:06.06 | Adys | huh wth |
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| 19:22.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:23.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@206.169.253.120) |
| 19:24.29 | Fisker- | hello |
| 19:27.23 | *** join/#wowuidev aesir1 (n=Aesir@24.238.95.142.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 19:28.58 | Shirik | I know I've asked this before but I don't know if I got a good answer |
| 19:29.03 | Shirik | I need a free bugtracker that supports roadmaps |
| 19:29.05 | Shirik | any suggestions? |
| 19:29.54 | Shirik | (aka milestones) |
| 19:29.57 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (n=augustl@s0034-0015.dsl.start.no) |
| 19:31.17 | aesir | JIRA makes mention of "multi-project road map portlet" |
| 19:32.15 | Gnarfoz | trac? *ducks* |
| 19:33.04 | aesir | eh, 3 stuck in infinite loops for my display driver in two days. I hope I don't have a hardware fault. I don't want to buy a new card. |
| 19:36.24 | AnduinLothar | dont you already use jira, Shirik? |
| 19:36.38 | Shirik | I may not be eligible to use JIRA for free soon |
| 19:36.41 | AnduinLothar | it has milestone type tickets |
| 19:36.45 | Shirik | I love JIRA, yes |
| 19:36.51 | Shirik | but my license may no longer be valid |
| 19:37.03 | AnduinLothar | why's that, cause it's for profit? |
| 19:37.09 | Shirik | well it's not "for profit" |
| 19:37.14 | ScytheBlade1 | You can define dependency trees with milestones using bugzilla |
| 19:37.24 | Shirik | But it may not be open souce |
| 19:37.45 | AnduinLothar | cause of the security stuff |
| 19:38.01 | AnduinLothar | bummer |
| 19:38.05 | Fisker- | pen and paper > JIRA |
| 19:38.11 | Shirik | They have a non-profit license but I'm not a 501(c) company obviously :) |
| 19:43.33 | Fisker- | count to 10 |
| 19:43.38 | Fisker- | 1 |
| 19:43.41 | ScytheBlade1 | 10 |
| 19:43.47 | Fisker- | 1 |
| 19:43.53 | AnduinLothar | 1 |
| 19:43.59 | Fisker- | 2 |
| 19:44.01 | AnduinLothar | 1 |
| 19:44.03 | Fisker- | 2 |
| 19:44.06 | AnduinLothar | 10 |
| 19:44.08 | Fisker- | 1 |
| 19:44.25 | AnduinLothar | ~lart Fisker- |
| 19:44.25 | purl | says "boot to the head" and knocks Fisker- over |
| 19:44.32 | Fisker- | ;( |
| 19:44.34 | Fisker- | ~tryme |
| 19:44.34 | purl | ACTION spins the revolver, points it at fisker- and fires. Click. |
| 19:45.02 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: I see no mention of milestones or roadmaps on bugzilla's webpage |
| 19:45.08 | Shirik | Gnarfoz: Why duck? Is trac bad? |
| 19:45.13 | Shirik | I've used it before, but never really got into it |
| 19:45.33 | foxlit | stuff everything into mediawiki. Mwhahaha! |
| 19:45.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: sec |
| 19:45.46 | Gnarfoz | dunno, it seems obiquitious to me, so I thought you had maybe already ruled it out for some reason ;) |
| 19:46.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: no, it definitely has milestones |
| 19:46.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.16/html/programadmin.html |
| 19:48.09 | Shirik | so then |
| 19:48.13 | Shirik | bugzilla vs trac |
| 19:48.14 | Shirik | go |
| 19:48.31 | ScytheBlade1 | I've never seen a /fast/ trac site |
| 19:49.36 | ScytheBlade1 | It seems to be a very intensive web app, but I've only really *used* bugzilla on my local laptop |
| 19:50.00 | zenzelezz | I wonder how many trac sites use MySQL, and how many are old enough to use sqlite |
| 19:50.08 | ScytheBlade1 | A good question |
| 19:50.17 | Duman | lol JIRA |
| 19:50.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Wouldn't know |
| 19:50.35 | Shirik | bug Trac is also "nicer" |
| 19:50.38 | Shirik | bugzilla is somewhat ugly |
| 19:50.44 | Duman | RT! ;) |
| 19:50.52 | Shirik | RT? |
| 19:50.54 | ScytheBlade1 | The default bugzilla site that I've seen is very nice looking |
| 19:50.57 | zenzelezz | trac is nicer than bugzilla in looks, but I'm not sure if I like any of them for actual use |
| 19:51.07 | Shirik | I really like how Jira looks :( |
| 19:51.14 | ScytheBlade1 | If you were on ipv6 I'd show you the copy I have on my laptop |
| 19:51.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Tewan (i=4b2ae066@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b4d33cf35d4760f8) |
| 19:51.20 | Duman | "request tracker" |
| 19:51.33 | Duman | http://bestpractical.com/rt/ |
| 19:52.16 | Shirik | I sadly see no roadmap/milestone support for RT |
| 19:55.12 | Shirik | it looks like trac also supports automated testing? |
| 19:55.23 | Shirik | or at least showing the results of automated testing |
| 19:58.12 | p3lim | is away: on the road |
| 19:58.24 | Shirik | stabs p3lim |
| 19:59.31 | *** join/#wowuidev d8722710 (n=x@host89-251-107-29.hnet.ru) |
| 20:01.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Twidget (n=chatzill@adsl-074-229-178-229.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:02.16 | Twidget | Hi... Is it possible for a macro to place an item in a specific bag slot? I have a macro that creates food for my mage and then can use it from a particular bag slot. I would like the create to put it in the specific bag slot so I don't have to move it manually. |
| 20:02.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Zeksie (n=zeksie@cpc1-nott9-0-0-cust93.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:03.50 | Industrial | Twidget: what if you accidentally put something in that bagslot? |
| 20:05.31 | Twidget | normally i just move the food and water to the slot manually... just wondered if there is a way to have the macro place it there automatically |
| 20:05.40 | Twidget | here is my water macro: |
| 20:05.56 | Twidget | #showtooltip [modifier: alt] Conjure Water; 3 1 |
| 20:05.57 | mikma | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:05.57 | Twidget | /cast [modifier: alt] Conjure Water; 3 1 |
| 20:07.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Twidget: that much automatiation requires API scripting, not macro scripting -- it's a bit hard to manage in a macro |
| 20:07.36 | Twidget | okies... thanks! |
| 20:07.39 | Kaso| | yah, surely it would be easier to use one of the serveral bag mods Twidget |
| 20:07.52 | mikma | simple, you cant use macro scripting and api together. that will always fail horribly. |
| 20:07.53 | Kaso| | ones that allow you to have "virtual" bags and decide what goes into them |
| 20:08.07 | Shirik | ok Gnarfoz, I think I'm going to go with trac |
| 20:08.13 | Shirik | any last-minute warnings before I do? |
| 20:08.22 | nevcairiel | don't use sqlite |
| 20:08.25 | Gnarfoz | no idea, never used it. ;) |
| 20:08.41 | Shirik | I think we use mysql |
| 20:08.44 | Shirik | I don't know |
| 20:08.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Who is "we"? |
| 20:09.03 | Shirik | well it would be hosted on wowi's server |
| 20:09.08 | ScytheBlade1 | You have mysql |
| 20:09.18 | Shirik | how do you know that... |
| 20:09.23 | ScytheBlade1 | I know things :) |
| 20:09.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Rincewind` (n=Rince@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Rincewind) |
| 20:13.08 | Fisker- | slaps nevcairiel around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:15.55 | *** join/#wowuidev zod (n=zod@99-22-220-61.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:16.06 | zod | hello |
| 20:16.18 | zod | i'm having a problem with LightHeaded coords |
| 20:16.31 | zod | Hi, |
| 20:20.07 | Shirik | ok, I'm being really stupid here. Why the heck doesn't this match |
| 20:20.18 | Shirik | lua> ("v3.4.0.5"):match("^[Vv]") |
| 20:20.19 | lua_bot | Shirik: v |
| 20:20.23 | Shirik | .... ok well it doesn't match in Java |
| 20:20.36 | Cairenn|afk | hi zod: can you provide a little more detail than that? |
| 20:20.37 | End | does java have a search? |
| 20:20.46 | zod | well, maybe i found the problem |
| 20:20.59 | zod | cartographer is not loading - says out of date - let me figure this out and get back |
| 20:21.06 | zod | i keep clearing it and reloading it |
| 20:21.07 | End | sometimes re packages provide a search and a match, and the match implicitly is wrapped with ^$ |
| 20:21.25 | End | (er, ^string$ I mean) |
| 20:22.02 | zod | does cartographer still have "cartographer [professions]"? |
| 20:22.09 | zod | maybe that is the problem - need to remove that file |
| 20:22.36 | End | I don't think it does |
| 20:22.40 | ckknight | zod: yea, that's no longer there, imo, use GatherMate |
| 20:22.57 | zod | gather mate? |
| 20:23.01 | Gnarfoz | could of course be there if he still has it :D |
| 20:23.02 | zod | never heard of it |
| 20:23.06 | Gnarfoz | old versions don't just vanish :D |
| 20:23.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-569afc5efeda82d7) |
| 20:23.20 | Fisker- | hey Gnarfoz |
| 20:23.22 | Fisker- | i am you |
| 20:23.44 | Gnarfoz | the who am I? |
| 20:23.44 | Shirik | seems you're right, End, it tries to match the whole string |
| 20:23.45 | zod | ok , the problem was with cartographer |
| 20:23.49 | zod | problem fixed |
| 20:23.56 | Fisker- | idk my bff jill? |
| 20:24.04 | zod | so what was the cartographer [professions] originally designed for? |
| 20:24.13 | zod | and what is gathermate |
| 20:24.19 | End | there should be a method for partial searches |
| 20:24.22 | zod | and why did curse stop letting us manually install files |
| 20:24.26 | Gnarfoz | they didn't. |
| 20:24.33 | End | although, maybe it's find, not search. I dunno |
| 20:24.33 | zod | i get link old |
| 20:25.03 | Gnarfoz | you click the flash download link and get "link old"? |
| 20:25.15 | Gnarfoz | also, obviously Cartographer_Professions is just that, a professions module for Cartographer 2.x |
| 20:25.26 | Gnarfoz | or rather, was, since it's no longer maintained |
| 20:25.57 | zod | why don't designers just make 1 folder for add ons |
| 20:26.00 | End | or, you have to create an object to do partial searches |
| 20:26.02 | zod | so when you unrar it |
| 20:26.07 | zod | you have 1 folder to "replace" |
| 20:26.07 | Gnarfoz | GatherMate is a stand-alone version that basically does the same as Cartographer_Professions did, just with support for multiple map addons |
| 20:26.09 | zod | and not a bunch? |
| 20:26.24 | Gnarfoz | zod: more random questions? :D |
| 20:26.30 | Gnarfoz | designers don't make addons, programmers do |
| 20:26.53 | Gnarfoz | also, most addons are in just one folder |
| 20:27.07 | zod | lightheaded is multiple folders |
| 20:27.07 | Gnarfoz | technically, everything else is more than one addon |
| 20:27.09 | Gnarfoz | yes. |
| 20:27.30 | Gnarfoz | it's multiple addons, to save you loading level 1-50 quest info when you're already level 70. or alliance quest data when you're horde. |
| 20:27.42 | Gnarfoz | don't know how it's actually split currently, but you get the idea |
| 20:30.18 | zod | cool |
| 20:30.20 | zod | thanks for your help |
| 20:30.28 | zod | how do I get back to this chat in the future? |
| 20:30.35 | zod | i went through the gatherer / auctioneer website |
| 20:30.42 | zod | and they linked to here |
| 20:31.09 | Gnarfoz | err |
| 20:31.40 | Gnarfoz | not sure how to answer that if you don't actually use an IRC client |
| 20:33.07 | zod | they linked it somehow in chat |
| 20:33.12 | zod | it was like #...... |
| 20:52.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Etanol (n=etanol@81.26.239.76) |
| 20:53.03 | Etanol | SYN |
| 20:53.27 | Shirik | ACK |
| 20:53.33 | Etanol | SYN-ACK |
| 20:53.39 | Etanol | you mean |
| 20:53.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (n=Jamash@75-25-130-215.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:53.42 | Shirik | actually I think I was supposed to send SYN-ACK |
| 20:53.44 | Etanol | don't skip a step |
| 20:53.49 | Shirik | :( |
| 20:54.12 | Fisker- | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:54.18 | Shirik | FIN/RST |
| 20:54.19 | Etanol | ~syn |
| 20:54.20 | purl | ack |
| 20:55.06 | Shirik | Etanol's correct response was RST though |
| 20:55.21 | Etanol | googles |
| 20:55.43 | Shirik | I'm actually tempted now to send an ACK packet after recieving a connection attempt via SYN and seeing what happens to the client |
| 20:56.03 | Fisker- | i'm gonna syn you up |
| 20:56.10 | Shirik | syn floods Fisker- |
| 20:58.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Tristanian (n=Tristani@cpe-77-83-190-39-dsl.netone.gr) |
| 21:00.55 | Etanol | hm |
| 21:01.05 | Etanol | how can pre-allocated files have a correct checksum? |
| 21:01.24 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Tristanian] by Shirik |
| 21:01.30 | Etanol | ~ping |
| 21:01.30 | purl | ~pong |
| 21:01.44 | Etanol | ~fail |
| 21:01.45 | purl | hmm... fail is what happens to you when you follow gamespot's game advice. |
| 21:01.55 | Tenchworks | lol |
| 21:02.26 | Tenchworks | ~tryme |
| 21:02.27 | purl | ACTION spins the revolver, points it at tenchworks and fires. A whale named Theodore who is the size of a small country flies into the target's face |
| 21:02.49 | Shirik | Etanol, what do you mean? |
| 21:03.00 | Tenchworks | lol never got whale'd before |
| 21:04.19 | *** join/#wowuidev QQngsk (n=Gngsk@c-68-48-88-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:15.02 | Shirik | ~md5 test |
| 21:15.08 | Shirik | I love you purl |
| 21:16.59 | *** join/#wowuidev t_ (i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw) |
| 21:21.00 | Fisker- | ~tryme |
| 21:21.01 | purl | ACTION spins the revolver, points it at PProvost and fires. A whale named Theodore who is the size of a small country flies into the target's face |
| 21:27.52 | Fisker- | ~tryme |
| 21:27.53 | purl | ACTION spins the revolver, points it at lua_bot and fires. Click. |
| 21:27.58 | Fisker- | ~tryme Fisker- |
| 21:28.06 | Tenchworks | lol what? |
| 21:28.06 | Fisker- | ffffuuuuuuuu |
| 21:28.14 | Tenchworks | never seen him point it at others |
| 21:28.39 | Tenchworks | ~tryme |
| 21:28.40 | purl | ACTION spins the revolver, points it at tenchworks and fires. Click. |
| 21:28.56 | Etanol | Shirik: If I download a torrent, most torrent programs will pre-allocate the files and nullfill them. if you generate a md5 checksum from the pre-allocated files, the checksum will match the checksum of the finished file |
| 21:30.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Etanol: I'd say you're smoking something |
| 21:30.44 | foxlit | I'd say you need to share whatever that is. |
| 21:31.06 | Kalroth | I'm pretty sure uTorrent handles it a little smarter than that :p |
| 21:31.33 | Shirik | how is that possible, Etanol |
| 21:31.47 | Shirik | I mean, you could just randomize a section of it until it matches |
| 21:31.51 | Shirik | but that doesn't seem very logical |
| 21:31.58 | foxlit | or very possible |
| 21:32.18 | foxlit | You'll finish downloading before you'll finish trying to find a matching hash. |
| 21:32.31 | Etanol | Shirik: it happened to a friend of mine |
| 21:32.38 | Etanol | he used sfv check on the files |
| 21:32.48 | Etanol | 100% match, and the download wasnt complete |
| 21:32.57 | Etanol | which in turn fucked up his bash script |
| 21:32.58 | foxlit | "friend of mine" =>> nobody knows what the heck happened. |
| 21:33.48 | Etanol | hm |
| 21:33.50 | Etanol | wait |
| 21:33.53 | Etanol | not md5 |
| 21:34.00 | kluge | it never made sense to me how such a small sequence of digits is supposed to somehow represent whether or not milllions or billions or w/e of digits are in order.. |
| 21:34.30 | kluge | it cant really be accurate or it would be compression not file checking? |
| 21:34.33 | kluge | meh i dont get it |
| 21:34.34 | Etanol | sfv check sequence example: 081dfcf1 |
| 21:34.43 | Etanol | kluge: it's magic |
| 21:34.48 | kluge | cool |
| 21:34.56 | Etanol | ~sfv |
| 21:35.15 | foxlit | Looks like a 32-bit integer from here. |
| 21:35.22 | foxlit | Which probably means crc. |
| 21:35.33 | foxlit | "represent whether or not milllions or billions or w/e of digits are in order" << the trick is, hashes don't do that. |
| 21:35.35 | Shirik | kluge: There are obviously collisions; there are only a finite number of choices and an infinite number of things to hash |
| 21:35.53 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan (n=karl@66.225.8.145) |
| 21:36.09 | foxlit | Rather, they tell you that if they don't match, you didn't receive the right millions of digits. |
| 21:36.11 | Shirik | However, the fact that two useful but distinct things have the same hash is relatively small |
| 21:37.36 | Etanol | kluge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check#CRCs_and_data_integrity_vs._correctness |
| 21:37.53 | Etanol | but I still don't get how the pre-allocated file can have the correct CRC value before it's finished |
| 21:38.00 | Etanol | (rtorrent) |
| 21:38.54 | Grum | crc is not really foolproof |
| 21:38.58 | ScytheBlade1 | CRC is terribly inaccurate |
| 21:39.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 21:39.44 | Adys | HELP. |
| 21:39.48 | Adys | http://pastebin.com/d6233f1fe |
| 21:39.50 | Adys | srsly. |
| 21:40.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Use the SHA1 hash in the torrent and the (incomplete) file |
| 21:40.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Adys: remove ~/.asoundrc or fix it? |
| 21:40.34 | Etanol | Adys: sudo rm /home/adys/.asoundrc , restart |
| 21:40.43 | Adys | it was permissions |
| 21:40.51 | Adys | edited ~/.asoundrc as root like a tard |
| 21:40.54 | Adys | but what the fuck |
| 21:40.59 | Adys | that wasnt worth 1200 lines of spam |
| 21:41.02 | Etanol | :D |
| 21:42.39 | Etanol | but, ECMA-182 should be somewhat accurate? |
| 21:43.17 | Etanol | or MD5 |
| 21:43.17 | Etanol | ? |
| 21:43.40 | ScytheBlade1 | I've got no idea what ECMA-182 is |
| 21:43.45 | ScytheBlade1 | But MD5 and SHA1 would be fine |
| 21:47.24 | *** join/#wowuidev thekip (n=inet09@84.58.119.97) |
| 21:50.37 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@WoWUIDev/Cosmos/AnduinLothar) |
| 21:50.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 21:52.50 | *** part/#wowuidev Tewan (i=4b2ae066@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b4d33cf35d4760f8) |
| 21:54.48 | ScytheBlade1 | http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2359/2534644455_4cb78c0d2c.jpg |
| 21:55.09 | Etanol | hahaha :> |
| 21:56.43 | Shirik | nice |
| 21:57.16 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 / Grum: CRC is not meant for authenticity verification |
| 21:57.22 | Shirik | It was only ever meant to catch transmission errors |
| 21:57.26 | Shirik | which it does very well |
| 21:57.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Indeed |
| 21:58.05 | Shirik | I rely on CRC8 in a lot of my protocols |
| 21:58.13 | Shirik | serial protocols* |
| 21:58.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Aren't your protocols like -- yeah, that's what I thought |
| 21:59.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Not quite a large file |
| 21:59.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Transfered over TCP |
| 22:01.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 22:02.08 | Shirik | well |
| 22:02.14 | Shirik | it's kinda pointless to recheck integrity over TCP |
| 22:02.18 | ScytheBlade1 | indeed |
| 22:02.34 | Shirik | except in the strange situation like torrents where the file at source may need its integrity checked |
| 22:02.42 | ScytheBlade1 | And yet people still ship CRC checks against large ISOs in torrents |
| 22:02.47 | Shirik | yes :P |
| 22:03.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:03.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 22:03.14 | Etanol | what the.... |
| 22:03.14 | Etanol | http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/design_concepts/EXTERN_0015.jpg |
| 22:03.29 | Shirik | now that is really cool |
| 22:03.41 | Shirik | however I'm scared about the integrity of the sheels |
| 22:03.43 | Shirik | wheels |
| 22:03.49 | Industrial | awesome |
| 22:03.50 | Shirik | though I assume they have a mechanical engineer on it that knows more than me |
| 22:04.07 | Etanol | I think it's just a concept |
| 22:04.24 | Shirik | but I think the concept is to move the gear location and get rid of the spokes and chain :) |
| 22:04.43 | Etanol | http://www.behance.net/Gallery/bike/111883 |
| 22:05.08 | Etanol | for more images |
| 22:06.01 | kmcguire | Ok, 6.89MB, and the performance is looking decent. Now going to test pairs, ipairs, and next. |
| 22:06.33 | mikma | etanol: saw a motorbike like thst in interwebs some time ago |
| 22:06.43 | kmcguire | I think we could shrink QH even futher than that maybe, but no less than 4MB. |
| 22:07.34 | Shirik | Ok guys, poll time |
| 22:07.42 | ScytheBlade1 | 42 |
| 22:07.48 | Shirik | if I had to estimate an "absolute maximum" on the amount of addons someone would have |
| 22:07.55 | Shirik | what would you say? |
| 22:07.58 | Gnarfoz | 1k |
| 22:07.59 | Industrial | I love northrend so much <3 snowy mountains. Sometimes when I'm flying downward over the mountains I get the feeling I'm snowboarding, or at least the thought I could board there =D |
| 22:08.02 | Shirik | .... |
| 22:08.07 | pnorman | I know people with over 150 addons |
| 22:08.09 | Shirik | let me rephrase |
| 22:08.14 | Shirik | "reasonable absolute maximum" |
| 22:08.18 | Industrial | 200 |
| 22:08.20 | Gnarfoz | what for? |
| 22:08.21 | Shirik | I was saying 300, but I thought that might be high |
| 22:08.22 | Etanol | 300 |
| 22:08.27 | ScytheBlade1 | People on the forums are always whining "I have over 200 addons, not updating them all manually!" |
| 22:08.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Well |
| 22:08.31 | ScytheBlade1 | A question |
| 22:08.37 | ScytheBlade1 | What's the downside to setting it at 1k? |
| 22:08.42 | Gnarfoz | also, folders from extracted multi-module addons or just "addons"? |
| 22:08.42 | ScytheBlade1 | As compared to 300? |
| 22:08.43 | Shirik | the time :) |
| 22:08.47 | Shirik | Here's the thing |
| 22:08.48 | ScytheBlade1 | ... it'll matter? |
| 22:08.51 | Etanol | Shirik: what are you doing? |
| 22:08.58 | Industrial | Shirik: over 9000 obviously, tbh |
| 22:09.01 | Gnarfoz | Industrial: +1 |
| 22:09.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Seconded |
| 22:09.21 | Shirik | Minion currently spawns a thread for every addon to update. (This is also user-limitable to cap the number of threads, but that's not the point). It works very well, except for one thing |
| 22:09.39 | pnorman | ls /Applications/World\ Of\ Warcraft/Interface/Addons/ returns 89 lines for me |
| 22:09.53 | Shirik | At startup, you have something like 150 threads competing with each other, and the threadpool has to dump out 150 threads, etc. |
| 22:10.06 | Gnarfoz | pnorman: ls -l, I assume? |
| 22:10.08 | Shirik | If I add, say, a 100ms delay in between starting up the threads, it's likely other threads will die before some start up |
| 22:10.13 | Shirik | which means I can reuse the threads |
| 22:10.26 | pnorman | Gnarfoz: No, piped to another program so it does that automatically |
| 22:10.27 | Shirik | However, if we say 300 addons, that means a 100ms delay translates into a minimum of 30 seconds |
| 22:10.31 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, why not just keep a fixed number running at all time? |
| 22:10.31 | Grum | just update 10 addons at the time? |
| 22:10.34 | ZorbaTHut | like, say, 10-20? |
| 22:10.36 | ScytheBlade1 | ^ |
| 22:10.42 | Shirik | ZorbaTHut: That's a more complicated question than you'd think :) I've tried that |
| 22:10.45 | Grum | there is no point doing more |
| 22:10.54 | ZorbaTHut | or use a worker pool system :) |
| 22:10.55 | Shirik | It raises a modularity issue |
| 22:10.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Cap it at 4 a time |
| 22:11.06 | pnorman | Keep in mind, something like Quartz is 15 addons |
| 22:11.08 | Shirik | I have no way of enforcing that modules tell me when they're blocking on something |
| 22:11.19 | Shirik | and when they're blocked, that doesn't free a thread in the thread pool |
| 22:11.31 | Gnarfoz | EXECThe system cannot find the file specified. |
| 22:11.35 | Gnarfoz | wtf :O |
| 22:11.46 | ZorbaTHut | that's why, IMHO, you just run some large but non-ridiculous number of threads constantly, like, say, 10-20 |
| 22:11.51 | Grum | pnorman: no 15 folders, 1 addon |
| 22:11.56 | ZorbaTHut | the chance that all of them are blocking is pretty low |
| 22:12.01 | mikma | etanol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJPTSaARlvs |
| 22:12.59 | Etanol | sick amounts of win |
| 22:13.31 | Gnarfoz | F:\WoW\Interface\Addons>ls -l | wc -l |
| 22:13.31 | Gnarfoz | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:13.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: cap it at 4 threads and kill any delay in spawning the threads |
| 22:13.46 | Shirik | capping at 4 threads is a bad idea |
| 22:13.49 | Shirik | as I have already mentioned |
| 22:13.49 | Grum | why? |
| 22:13.50 | Iriel | Shirik: I'm arriving at the conversation fairly late but... |
| 22:13.51 | pnorman | Grum: I can enable them and disable them one by one in the addon list, they each have their own .toc file |
| 22:13.53 | ScytheBlade1 | 4 *download/update threads |
| 22:14.00 | Grum | pnorman: so? |
| 22:14.02 | Iriel | Shirik: My suggestion is many threads, but throttle at the 'external' places |
| 22:14.08 | Etanol | 212 |
| 22:14.11 | Iriel | Shirik: I.e. limit concurrent net connections and filesystem ops |
| 22:14.12 | ZorbaTHut | that's why I'm saying cap it at 10 or 20 threads :P |
| 22:14.14 | Grum | for the updater it is one addon |
| 22:14.45 | Iriel | threads are cheap, it's what they're doing that's expensive |
| 22:14.54 | Grum | i would be really pissed if you would start 'as many thread as you pleased' |
| 22:15.01 | Grum | it locks up your whole box if you do that |
| 22:16.02 | kmcguire | rewrite the whole thing |
| 22:16.18 | Shirik | I'm trying to think of a good way to limit the number of concurrent connections but I can't really think of one off the top of my head |
| 22:16.32 | Shirik | not without forcing modules to go through the core to connect |
| 22:16.39 | Grum | enjoy writing the threadmanagement :P |
| 22:16.45 | kmcguire | There is the answer, force them to go through the core. |
| 22:16.47 | ScytheBlade1 | What's wrong with a hard cap of 4 exactly? |
| 22:16.54 | Etanol | root@home: wine "~/.wine/drive_c/downloads/NORTON ANTIVIRUS RAPE XXX FREE KEYGEN CRACK.AVI.exe" |
| 22:16.55 | Etanol | jtgx |
| 22:16.57 | Etanol | kthx |
| 22:17.06 | Etanol | hehe |
| 22:17.07 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: If a module blocks the thread, which actually does happen right now, it won't release another thread in the threadpool |
| 22:17.15 | Shirik | meaning at some point you'll just sit there with everything blocked |
| 22:17.20 | Shirik | when more work could be done |
| 22:17.46 | ZorbaTHut | what do the modules block the thread on? |
| 22:17.52 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd have thought it would be the other way around, namely, the (work) threads brocking the module |
| 22:18.00 | ScytheBlade1 | *blocking |
| 22:18.16 | Shirik | There's a special case where the module is trying to determine if an addon folder is actually part of another addon |
| 22:18.25 | Shirik | so it blocks pending the other addon's completion |
| 22:18.52 | ZorbaTHut | then require addons to signal the core that they're blocking |
| 22:18.59 | Shirik | this will only happen during initial install situations, but it's something that needs to be identified |
| 22:19.01 | ZorbaTHut | and if they don't, it's an addon bug |
| 22:19.49 | Shirik | I guess that's a reasonable statement to make, though I tend to dislike forcing module authors to do something to make it work |
| 22:20.14 | Silversage | Heyo. |
| 22:20.16 | Silversage | Is there a way to tell if an item in your inventory can be equipped by you, other than scanning the tooltip? |
| 22:20.44 | ZorbaTHut | buys his fourth set of gigantique bags |
| 22:21.03 | Shirik | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/IsEquippableItem |
| 22:21.04 | Shirik | ? |
| 22:21.20 | Silversage | That's returning True for mail items when I'm a druid. |
| 22:21.21 | Shirik | (just a guess) |
| 22:21.32 | Shirik | then I'll guess no :) |
| 22:21.35 | Silversage | Yah. I'm past the guessing part. :D |
| 22:24.15 | Grum | Shirik: give X threads per module? like 4 orso? |
| 22:24.28 | Grum | then if a module blocks all of them no-one cares except the module |
| 22:24.38 | Grum | and they know they did it :P |
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| 22:33.28 | Iriel | Am I the only person who has raised an eyebrow at the painting by the Grand Master JC Trainer at the Argent Tournament? |
| 22:34.36 | Osstia | never even noticed it |
| 22:34.48 | Osstia | next time i am up there i will have to take a gander |
| 22:35.32 | Iriel | My guess is that it's intended to be totally innocent |
| 22:38.41 | End | lol Iriel |
| 22:38.57 | Iriel | End: SEE! |
| 22:39.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Screenshot? |
| 22:39.04 | Iriel | End: It's not ALL in my head |
| 22:39.29 | End | I don't think it's -that- bad, but I could see how you'd umm...look at it that way |
| 22:39.45 | Iriel | Yeah, like I said, a raised eyebrow |
| 22:39.51 | ScytheBlade1 | wtb screenshot |
| 22:45.03 | End | it occurs to me now, I could have taken a screenshot, but I forgot and left |
| 22:46.58 | Iriel | Likewise |
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| 23:08.20 | zenzelezz | I find myself having trouble appreciating the Void trilogy (by Peter F. Hamilton) as much as I did the Night's Dawn trilogy, or the Commonwealth Saga :-/ Too much "regular" fantasy, too little sci-fi |
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| 23:09.18 | Corrodias | too many magic swords instead of plasma swords? |
| 23:09.38 | zenzelezz | actually more telekinesis ("third hands") |
| 23:09.43 | Silversage | And arcanobabble instead of technobabble. |
| 23:09.54 | zenzelezz | it's not bad, as such, but I'm more into sci-fi |
| 23:14.33 | zenzelezz | not sure why, but things like stopping bullets Matrix-style through mental powers just doesn't appeal to me as much as bombs that make stars turn nova, or FTL/wormhole technologies |
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