| 00:03.18 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: PaladinBuffer's /pb command conflicts with ProfessionBook, think you could add something like /pbuff, as well? |
| 00:03.25 | Shadowed | /paladinbuffer |
| 00:03.28 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:03.28 | Shadowed | or /paladinbuff |
| 00:03.32 | Shadowed | probably the former |
| 00:03.37 | NightHawkTheSane | typing more than six characters makes me cry |
| 00:03.42 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@c-68-35-53-13.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 00:03.44 | Zyndrome | /bubblebuff |
| 00:03.55 | Shadowed | well, go delete professionbook and you can use /pb! |
| 00:04.01 | NightHawkTheSane | hehe |
| 00:04.05 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm half tempted to anyway. |
| 00:08.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@ip53.net253.mw.net) |
| 00:11.14 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 00:16.15 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 00:16.33 | mikma | http://apina.biz/10000.jpg |
| 00:17.12 | *** join/#wowuidev kollektiv (n=tim@haml-242.res.umass.edu) |
| 00:19.57 | sacarasc | That image lied. I still have Barbie Girl in my head. :( |
| 00:21.14 | Shirik | wakes! |
| 00:21.23 | Shirik | uses Quick Attack on Cairenn |
| 00:21.27 | foxlit | tranq-shots Shirik again. |
| 00:21.32 | Cairenn | hides |
| 00:22.05 | Cairenn | ~seen cogwheel |
| 00:22.07 | purl | cogwheel <n=cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 19h 59m 56s ago, saying: 'so long'. |
| 00:23.12 | Cairenn | :( |
| 00:23.18 | Cairenn | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16137188726&sid=1 |
| 00:23.26 | mikma | cog|quit |
| 00:24.18 | mikma | imho, he went from cool dude to total emo in 1 day |
| 00:24.25 | NightHawkTheSane | :o |
| 00:25.45 | zenzelezz | as far as I've gathered, he was among the people who really didn't appreciate the new policy |
| 00:25.54 | mikma | you think so? |
| 00:26.33 | NightHawkTheSane | such an astute observation. :P |
| 00:26.48 | zenzelezz | yes, but I'm not using more certain words because I could have missed something |
| 00:26.56 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 00:26.57 | Cairenn | you didn't |
| 00:27.18 | zenzelezz | for all I know he could have just been pissed off at someone's response to his reactions, etc. |
| 00:27.31 | zenzelezz | so I chose to use a less bold statement |
| 00:27.48 | Adys | I like to think over my two first years of wow |
| 00:27.59 | Adys | Ive seen some of the best/worst drama even possible |
| 00:28.10 | Adys | from totally hilarious to really disheartening and sad |
| 00:28.21 | Adys | "things you cant imagine" |
| 00:28.23 | foxlit | I wonder if GetModifiedAttribute is in the restricted environment |
| 00:28.48 | Adys | so I always grin a bit when someone goes nuts/emo/pissed off at something as simple as a new policiy |
| 00:29.08 | Adys | I mean I really like cogwheel |
| 00:29.16 | Adys | but this is silly |
| 00:29.44 | Cairenn | :( |
| 00:29.46 | zenzelezz | I'm not sure really. He just has strong feelings about some aspect of it |
| 00:30.01 | Adys | yeah thats understandable |
| 00:30.40 | Adys | but its no reason to leave friends behind; Im sure he does have friends in there and this just looks like hes taking the leave on people he'd care about, over something as stupid as that |
| 00:30.42 | foxlit | Ah, it is. :GetEffectiveAttribute() at least provides some form of access to it |
| 00:31.20 | Cairenn | :( |
| 00:31.29 | Adys | ponders buying wowdrama.com |
| 00:33.50 | Legorol | I'd like to put cog's actions in a slightly different light: |
| 00:34.02 | Legorol | he had strong moral convictions and principles, and had the balls to act on it |
| 00:34.34 | Legorol | not succumbing to peer pressure, knowing the sacrifice he has to make when leaving friends behind, he stood up for what he believed in (even if not always expressing himself eloquently) |
| 00:34.40 | Legorol | that's how i view his actions |
| 00:34.42 | mikma | yeah, getting banned ans quiting? (i know the story behind the ban anyway) |
| 00:34.59 | foxlit | Thing is, WoW is a colossal waste of time. |
| 00:35.03 | mikma | oh well, his choice anyway |
| 00:35.10 | Legorol | it's a sucky deal to have to choose between principles and friends |
| 00:35.12 | Legorol | lose-lose imo |
| 00:35.20 | Adys | yeah its a lose-lose |
| 00:35.33 | Legorol | and most people would not choose principles |
| 00:35.48 | Adys | see when you see this kind of shit for the first time, second time etc |
| 00:36.07 | Legorol | this has nothing to do with WoW as such actually, happens in real life too all the time |
| 00:36.07 | Adys | you tell yourself you'll do the Right Thing, and quit over it or w/e |
| 00:36.13 | zenzelezz | personally I wouldn't call it "have the balls to act". Usually it comes down to whether you value your moral convictions over your friends, plain and simple. But that's my opinion only |
| 00:36.29 | Adys | its not only about friends |
| 00:36.59 | Legorol | zenzelezz: i don't think it's that simple |
| 00:37.20 | Legorol | if it was like that, then the person making the choice would ultimately be a winner (making the hcoice that suits them better) |
| 00:37.21 | zenzelezz | neither do I, but your comment made me wonder if you did |
| 00:37.42 | Legorol | well i don't think it's as black and white as i put it, but i prefer to lean in that direction |
| 00:38.01 | Legorol | in other words, /salute and /respect |
| 00:38.16 | PProvost | Aggressive idealistic attachment to principles leads to unhappiness. Every time. It just isn't pragmatic. And while some may respect it, I think it is foolish and wasteful. |
| 00:38.28 | Adys | its courageous, its brave, its whatever you want |
| 00:38.36 | Adys | but its not respectable and hes making the wrong choice |
| 00:39.10 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (n=airtonix@ppp203-122-216-37.lns12.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 00:39.16 | Adys | this is the same situation when you leave a guild you've been in for years over some change you dont like |
| 00:39.22 | Adys | leave a server, leave a job etc |
| 00:39.31 | mikma | its a game! damnit |
| 00:39.39 | foxlit | "Does this action make me happier?" |
| 00:39.42 | foxlit | "Hell yes." |
| 00:39.42 | Adys | nevermind that its still social |
| 00:40.13 | zenzelezz | I always find it amusing when people try to play down the level of involvement by saying "it's just a game" |
| 00:40.20 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@p3lim.e15-2.tg09.gathering.org) |
| 00:40.20 | Adys | yeah |
| 00:40.36 | Adys | its when you want to do something about it and feel powerless |
| 00:40.41 | mikma | zenzelezz: it still is a fucking bunch of pixels |
| 00:40.42 | *** join/#wowuidev TecnoBrat (n=tecnobra@tecnobrat.com) |
| 00:40.53 | Adys | mikma: you're a fucking bunch of atoms |
| 00:40.57 | zenzelezz | mikma: that made even less sense |
| 00:41.05 | mikma | i've played it since open beta and i still don't give a rats ass about guilds and stuff |
| 00:41.18 | zenzelezz | we're all individuals |
| 00:41.27 | mikma | whats the need to fight over something you can just quit easily |
| 00:41.38 | Adys | who said you had to fight? |
| 00:41.49 | zenzelezz | and who said you can quit easily? People are different |
| 00:42.02 | mikma | legorol said something like that about cockwheel |
| 00:42.20 | zenzelezz | let's not start name calling |
| 00:42.41 | Adys | nor insults |
| 00:42.42 | mikma | honest typo, ck ans g are too close to each other |
| 00:42.58 | foxlit | Yeah, I hit my ck key all the time! |
| 00:44.05 | mikma | we all like to hit ck sometimes |
| 00:44.13 | Adys | ~lart ckknight |
| 00:44.13 | purl | whips out his power stapler and staples ckknight's foot to the floor |
| 00:44.21 | Cairenn | just so you guys know and are thus forewarned - I'm really upset about his quitting, just as I've been upset about this whole charlie foxtrot since the very first day - so please don't give me reason to take that out on you guys by sniping at each other |
| 00:44.48 | mikma | starts pointing pew pew laserz |
| 00:45.17 | Adys | see now when any form of drama happens I just sit |
| 00:45.32 | Adys | sit, wait, watch it happen, do nothing about it, dont react |
| 00:45.46 | zenzelezz | much like France in WW2 |
| 00:45.49 | Adys | worst i can do is poke fun at the ones making it |
| 00:45.52 | mikma | Its like it gets funnier when waiting |
| 00:46.30 | mikma | zenzelezz: yeaaaah. french. |
| 00:47.06 | mikma | cigarettes, wine, french bread and eiffel. |
| 00:47.16 | mikma | fire ze missiles! |
| 00:48.34 | Adys | it doesnt get funnier |
| 00:48.42 | Adys | well |
| 00:48.47 | Adys | not when youve seen so much of it |
| 00:49.02 | Adys | it gets dull |
| 00:49.32 | Adys | seeing everyone do the same mistakes, one by one :) |
| 00:50.36 | Legorol | see, that's where i disagree with the crowd. you make it sound like cog made a mistake |
| 00:50.42 | Legorol | he made a choice |
| 00:50.44 | Adys | for himself |
| 00:50.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso| (n=Kaso@host86-145-163-77.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:50.51 | Adys | yeah he made the wrong choice |
| 00:51.15 | Legorol | you are too judgmental. this is not a factual debate, but very much biased by personal feelings |
| 00:51.31 | Seerah | happy birthday Dolby!!! |
| 00:51.39 | Legorol | you can judge a choice of Lua code like that, i don't think you can judge cog's actions like that |
| 00:51.52 | mikma | SURROUND DOLBY! |
| 00:52.01 | Corrodias | of course it is opinions. for it to be a "wrong" choice, it must be subjective. |
| 00:52.02 | mikma | no, wait... thats not it |
| 00:52.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (n=Rupert@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute) |
| 00:52.21 | Adys | its not opinions anymore when you've seen the same thing done a hundred time |
| 00:52.24 | Adys | even more |
| 00:52.38 | Adys | he quit because he wanted to take act |
| 00:52.40 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan (n=karl@66.225.8.145) |
| 00:53.00 | Corrodias | then don't use the word "wrong". express yourself effectively and clearly. |
| 00:53.45 | Adys | in french we call that "pissing in a violin"; it wont do any good, it wont have the effect he intended it to have |
| 00:53.54 | PProvost | ROFL |
| 00:54.10 | foxlit | Your detachment may be leading to overgeneralization. |
| 00:54.24 | Hirsute | What effect would someone intend pissing in a violin to have? |
| 00:54.45 | PProvost | Dramatic actions based on principles often fall into that category. But for some people, their internal make-up still requires them to do it. |
| 00:54.50 | Corrodias | possibly to keep the violin from working? although you can empty it, so i'm not sure it would work, hence the idiom. |
| 00:55.18 | Adys | Hirsute: its a french expression, we french like to have strange goals. |
| 00:56.24 | Hirsute | I'm just saying that there's only two things I can think of that someone would intend pissing in a violin to do: 1)Get piss in the violin, and 2)Keep other people from playing it (and possibly 3-To it out if it's on fire....), and they might accomplish any of those. ;) |
| 00:56.53 | mikma | adys tell me again, how many wars have french won again? ;)) |
| 00:57.06 | Adys | mikma: none of the ones I didnt fight |
| 00:57.07 | Hirsute | >.> |
| 00:57.25 | foxlit | Gah |
| 00:57.25 | mikma | adys: no wonder folks in there like to piss in violin |
| 00:57.51 | foxlit | I can't handle OnLeave without an OnEnter firing beforehand, which it doesn't for positioned frames |
| 00:58.04 | foxlit | This kind of sucks. |
| 00:58.18 | Hirsute | That seems... |
| 00:58.20 | Hirsute | broken |
| 00:58.37 | mikma | well doesnt that actually require you to enter the box with mouse before you can leave it? |
| 01:00.05 | foxlit | I could be positioning it under the mouse to trap movement out of a specific range |
| 01:00.48 | mikma | basicly the mouse would still enter the frame first? |
| 01:01.26 | foxlit | Yes. |
| 01:02.42 | foxlit | but the practical effect is that the secure OnEnter wouldn't fire because I'm positioning the frame under the mouse rather than moving the mouse over the frame |
| 01:03.13 | Legorol | that's interesting, because if you do a Show() on a frame that's under the mouse, OnEnter still fires |
| 01:03.18 | foxlit | Also, NOTHING fires for small frame dimensions (like w=2,h=2) |
| 01:03.28 | foxlit | Legorol: secure wraps check for motion |
| 01:03.43 | Legorol | ah k |
| 01:05.57 | foxlit | fortunately, there's a hole. |
| 01:05.59 | foxlit | phew! |
| 01:08.06 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 01:15.21 | Pytlask | foxlit: do tell |
| 01:17.24 | *** join/#wowuidev haleyss (n=what@cpe-65-29-222-250.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 01:18.07 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: in your mom. |
| 01:19.37 | NightHawkTheSane | wiping on raz because the healers are too idiotic to figure out their both healing the same understudy kinda sucks. >< |
| 01:19.42 | NightHawkTheSane | they're* |
| 01:22.01 | Adys | my guild is bad |
| 01:22.04 | Adys | i mean |
| 01:22.05 | Adys | really bad |
| 01:22.25 | Adys | but i think its been ages since we needed healing on raz |
| 01:22.35 | Adys | on the understudies that is |
| 01:22.40 | Adys | so its prolly your tanks |
| 01:25.10 | Kaso | i remeber the good old days, doing raz in 40man naxx |
| 01:25.21 | Kaso | :( how the world changes |
| 01:25.28 | Adys | hehe |
| 01:25.33 | Adys | Hide! |
| 01:25.35 | Adys | DPS! |
| 01:25.37 | Adys | Hide! |
| 01:25.42 | Adys | DPS! |
| 01:25.43 | Adys | fun |
| 01:25.52 | Kaso | i was a priest, it was us doing all the bloody work! |
| 01:25.58 | Adys | pfft |
| 01:26.37 | foxlit | Wonder what causes it to eat the first several OnLeave invocations, and then behave properly |
| 01:29.56 | foxlit | It's as if there's some internal "positioned" flag that does not, for some reason, get set |
| 01:30.20 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: actually, if anything it'd be the rest of the dps for not killing him sooner. |
| 01:30.38 | NightHawkTheSane | but that time was just healer failure |
| 01:30.42 | Adys | sounds like you play a tank? :P |
| 01:30.54 | NightHawkTheSane | sometimes, but not right now. :P |
| 01:31.11 | NightHawkTheSane | i just know they werent really doing much wrong in the fight. the dps is kinda poor though |
| 01:32.06 | NightHawkTheSane | half of the dps did less damage than the understudies... |
| 01:32.28 | Shirik | Flame Tsunami |
| 01:32.33 | Shirik | that's the fire wall in Sarth right? |
| 01:32.40 | Adys | yes |
| 01:32.45 | Kaso | Im just looking through some old code |
| 01:32.47 | Kaso | "if 1~=1 then return end" |
| 01:32.47 | foxlit | Ah, it's not on top |
| 01:32.49 | Kaso | wtf is that |
| 01:33.09 | Kaso | sanity check to make sure maths hasn't changed since the code was written perhaps? |
| 01:33.23 | Shirik | Kaso: Perhaps it's some old debug code |
| 01:33.25 | Pytlask | Kaso: Checking for radiation |
| 01:33.36 | Shirik | something you can easily remove/add in for return |
| 01:33.41 | Shirik | since you can't just stick in a return |
| 01:33.50 | Kaso | yah |
| 01:34.01 | Shirik | per the manual, return must always be followed by end |
| 01:34.02 | Kaso | amusing that i left that in on a release version though |
| 01:34.10 | Shirik | (or else, or other end of block) |
| 01:34.26 | Adys | [04:33:25] <Pytlask> Kaso: Checking for radiation |
| 01:34.30 | Adys | what I was thinking |
| 01:35.58 | Kemayo | I always like `do return end` |
| 01:36.13 | Kaso | i love how there's not a single comment in this code |
| 01:36.20 | Kaso | ah i was an excellent coder |
| 01:37.01 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 01:37.08 | Kaso | actually most of my code it still like that >< |
| 01:37.55 | NightHawkTheSane | comments are for pussies |
| 01:38.53 | Shirik | 1:55'34.391nil hits Iennyin for 10041 Arcane. |
| 01:38.59 | Shirik | That's a pro combat log message |
| 01:40.51 | ScytheBlade1 | I totally shouldn't have chosen online privacy as the topic for my writing paper this semester |
| 01:40.59 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm begging to get kinda scared myself :( |
| 01:41.31 | ScytheBlade1 | *beginning |
| 01:41.39 | Adys | ScytheBlade1: BOO! |
| 01:41.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Adys: not quite like that |
| 01:41.55 | Adys | sorry. |
| 01:41.59 | Kaso | EU governments are logging all email and voip calls since this monday |
| 01:42.01 | Kaso | :( |
| 01:42.01 | Adys | was just trying to help |
| 01:42.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=callahan@74-130-66-145.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 01:42.28 | ScytheBlade1 | For example, since jan 05, an estimated 253.7 million records have been h4x0red out of various orginizations |
| 01:42.34 | ScytheBlade1 | And that is only what is made public |
| 01:42.38 | Kemayo | Anyone know if secure frames that are set to run a macro onclick have the same 255 char length limit as regular macros? |
| 01:42.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Kemayo: 1023 char limit |
| 01:43.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Kaso: link to that concerning VoIP and email loggin? |
| 01:43.38 | Kemayo | ScytheBlade1: Nice. Do they just stop working entirely after that length, or does it try to trim 'em? |
| 01:43.48 | ScytheBlade1 | s/n?/ng in the EU?/ |
| 01:43.48 | Kaso | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7985339.stm |
| 01:43.48 | Adys | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/09/1927217&from=rss |
| 01:43.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Kemayo: silently trimmed, iirc |
| 01:44.04 | Adys | am I the only one who thought they were talking about the gecko engine |
| 01:44.04 | Adys | >< |
| 01:44.09 | Kaso | http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/04/06/data-retention-endangers-democracy/ |
| 01:44.24 | ScytheBlade1 | whoo thanks for the links |
| 01:45.10 | Kaso | they're also planning the same for facebook/myspace/etc http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7962631.stm |
| 01:45.42 | ScytheBlade1 | And here I thought that the US was bad concerning online privacy |
| 01:45.47 | ScytheBlade1 | note to self: never ever ever move to the EU |
| 01:45.53 | ScytheBlade1 | s/EU/UK/ |
| 01:45.55 | ScytheBlade1 | whatever |
| 01:46.18 | Kaso | The US is alot more lax when it comes to private companies, the EU data laws regarding companies are quite tight |
| 01:46.27 | Kaso | but its reversed with governments |
| 01:46.40 | ScytheBlade1 | nods |
| 01:47.33 | Kaso | Im not sure which i would prefer |
| 01:47.40 | Kaso | neither reallly, but yeah |
| 01:47.56 | Legorol | what happens to email data that is not with a commercial ISP? |
| 01:48.00 | Legorol | for example, between universities |
| 01:48.06 | Legorol | does that have to be retained as well? |
| 01:48.32 | Kaso | I havent read the full laws yet, ive been meaning to, but i believe in other similar laws, universities count as ISPs under the regulations |
| 01:48.46 | Legorol | i'm wondering if this only applies to commercial ISPs where the user has a mailbox with said ISP, and/or uses the ISP's smtp host |
| 01:49.10 | Legorol | Kaso: when you do get to read it, do let me know |
| 01:49.30 | Legorol | also i'm curious about where's the boundary between entities that have to retain such data, and entities which don't |
| 01:49.35 | Kaso | Its something i've been meaning to do, gotta keep on top of this sort of things |
| 01:49.45 | Legorol | obviously a proprietary system between a few individuals can't be required to retain email |
| 01:49.54 | Kaso | its disturbing how little its in the media as well :( |
| 01:50.03 | Legorol | so i wonder where the line is drawn |
| 01:50.10 | Legorol | for example, where does email stop and IM begin |
| 01:50.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-71-197-12-179.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 01:50.31 | Legorol | what about webmail like gmail, etc. |
| 01:50.42 | Legorol | this raises tons of questions for me:) |
| 01:51.49 | *** join/#wowuidev ecstasia (n=ecs@unaffiliated/ecstasia) |
| 01:54.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: its all semantics, really |
| 01:54.33 | NightHawkTheSane | i mean, ultimately with customized server & client implementations, you could easily use irc as an IM platform |
| 01:54.39 | Adys | http://services.google.com/latitudevideo/ |
| 01:54.41 | Adys | oh god |
| 01:54.49 | Adys | thats really, really awesome |
| 01:56.00 | NightHawkTheSane | what sub-25-man relic to ret pallies use in pve these days? >.> |
| 01:57.19 | Kaso | Legorol, (h) "electronic mail" means any text, voice, sound or image message sent over a public communications network which can be stored in the network or in the recipient's terminal equipment until it is collected by the recipient. |
| 01:57.45 | NightHawkTheSane | Kaso: some "IM" protocols can do that. :P |
| 01:57.49 | Kaso | yup |
| 01:57.57 | Kaso | its fairly vague |
| 01:57.58 | NightHawkTheSane | which brings me back to "its all semantics, really" |
| 01:59.00 | ScytheBlade1 | http://jalopnik.com/5191437/autozone-customer-takes-matters-into-his-own-hands-after-45-minutes-on-hold |
| 02:03.51 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 02:04.47 | Shirik | ..I tell him, "....and I'm STILL on hold!" That's right...I still haven't hung up... |
| 02:04.47 | Shirik | He looks at the phone....picks it up...and says, "Uhh Autzone, may I help you?" |
| 02:04.47 | Shirik | I yell into MY phone, "IT'S ME FUCKER!!!" He jumps and hangs up. |
| 02:04.49 | Shirik | I laughed |
| 02:05.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 02:05.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 02:08.21 | Shirik | funny thing is, that's an interesting story because it proves the system we had when I worked at Best Buy |
| 02:08.25 | Shirik | annoying as hell, but it avoided these problems |
| 02:08.26 | Corrodias | that's hilarious |
| 02:08.44 | Shirik | if a person is on hold for more than 3 minutes, the call rings back, and if it isn't picked up it's sent to customer service |
| 02:08.48 | foxlit | auto-disconnect? |
| 02:20.55 | Torhal | Cairenn: WoWI's popular AddOn thinger is weird. :D |
| 02:21.08 | Cairenn | huh? |
| 02:21.24 | cbreak | bash? don't say bad things about bash! |
| 02:21.35 | cbreak | and it's not from WoWI |
| 02:21.37 | Torhal | Oh, just noticed that one of my addons lost the flag even though it's had 7 new downloads in the past 16 hours :) |
| 02:22.10 | Cairenn | What mod? |
| 02:22.12 | Cairenn | link |
| 02:22.26 | Torhal | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info12432-Volumizer.html |
| 02:22.52 | Torhal | May be a date-based thing, never was sure how it worked. |
| 02:23.49 | Cairenn | that's because we bumped the # of downloads needed to trigger the star is all |
| 02:24.11 | Cairenn | you must have just missed it when we did it |
| 02:24.19 | Cairenn | missed noticing it before this, I mean |
| 02:24.51 | Torhal | Weird. It was there last night. Kept waiting for it to fall off like it did on Revelation, and it finally did. Was trying to pinpoint when it happened. |
| 02:24.55 | Syzgyn | That was exciting |
| 02:25.09 | Syzgyn | Gluth decimates, MT doesnt get topped off. GG Immortal |
| 02:25.10 | Syzgyn | Again |
| 02:25.54 | Codayus | Ouch. |
| 02:30.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (i=vschiu@adsl-76-254-43-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:32.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@ip-88-153-117-200.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 02:36.29 | kd3 | oh, geez... fail |
| 02:36.38 | kd3 | consecutive lines in the patch notes: |
| 02:36.40 | kd3 | * Siege Engines now have the Steam Rush ability from Ulduar. |
| 02:36.40 | kd3 | * Steam Rush: Removed from the Siege Engine due to pathing issues. |
| 02:38.11 | mikma | haha |
| 02:50.31 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 02:58.16 | haste | nice :D |
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| 03:19.04 | NightHawkTheSane | I fucking love john gruber: http://digg.com/d1oNOZ |
| 03:24.37 | Shirik | wtf is that |
| 03:28.43 | Syzgyn | lol |
| 03:28.45 | *** part/#wowuidev wentam543 (n=Wentam54@ppp-69-218-255-225.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net) |
| 03:31.22 | Zyndrome | o wut |
| 03:31.23 | Wobin | http://hacklab.to/archives/another-musical-variation/ |
| 03:34.10 | Shirik | rofl |
| 03:34.18 | Shirik | is that due to the servos turning at different rates? |
| 03:35.01 | Wobin | I imagine there's at least two servos to drive that |
| 03:35.12 | Wobin | so they have two 'music' channels to work with =) |
| 03:35.35 | Wobin | I'm a sucker for weird equipment playing the Mario theme =) |
| 03:41.30 | NightHawkTheSane | your just a sucker. ;p |
| 03:47.01 | Arrowmaster | http://vimeo.com/4028427 shows atleast two different parts moving, i think theres more though |
| 03:47.41 | Arrowmaster | the code is even online so you can find out how many movements it has from that |
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| 04:04.44 | Arrowmaster | those bastards are toying with me |
| 04:06.19 | mikma | twin tesla coils playing mario bros is way better! |
| 04:06.56 | Thrae | Woot got my OpenVPN setup working. |
| 04:09.38 | *** join/#wowuidev vince` (i=vschiu@adsl-76-254-42-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:11.14 | NightHawkTheSane | your MOM Is way etter |
| 04:11.20 | NightHawkTheSane | better* |
| 04:11.46 | mikma | i know |
| 04:11.54 | mikma | my mom owns all of you noobs |
| 04:18.15 | NightHawkTheSane | srsly |
| 04:22.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster` (n=Arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 04:25.06 | Syzgyn | So we're trying a brute force 25man sarth 3 |
| 04:25.22 | Shirik | ? |
| 04:25.40 | Syzgyn | You havent seen the video of the 10 man kill? |
| 04:26.07 | Shirik | I have |
| 04:26.13 | Shirik | I'm not entirely impressed |
| 04:26.18 | Shirik | however, we've run the math on the 25 man |
| 04:26.25 | Shirik | You aren't going to get it done |
| 04:26.26 | Syzgyn | yeah I'm not sure it'll work |
| 04:26.37 | Syzgyn | We'll see how close we get |
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| 04:28.46 | Syzgyn | lol, half the raid died to the first lava wave |
| 04:29.37 | Shirik | Sarth 100-25% - 60 seconds to do 2.35 mil damage with 9 people: 39.2k RDPS from 9 people, 4.3k DPS each. |
| 04:29.38 | Shirik | Sarth 25-0% - 25 secs to do 784k damage with 8 people: 31.4k RDPS from 8 people, 3.9K DPS each. |
| 04:29.38 | Shirik | Considering you'll be bloodlusted for 40 of the 85 secs, +4k DPS is very much doable. Still want as many raid buffs as possible. |
| 04:29.42 | Shirik | That's the summary of the math |
| 04:29.50 | Shirik | please note that's with one healer |
| 04:29.56 | Shirik | oh whoops, wrong one |
| 04:29.58 | Shirik | sorry |
| 04:31.29 | Shirik | one healer, one tank, 23 dps 10 million damage in 75 seconds raid needs to average 5800 DPS, not impossible |
| 04:31.48 | Shirik | however you probably aren't going to do it with one healer |
| 04:32.01 | Shirik | and the numbers are slightly off because you have 22 dps, not 23 |
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| 04:34.06 | NightHawkTheSane | "probably" is "almost certainly" |
| 04:34.23 | NightHawkTheSane | you can get away with single healing 10-man because it's only 10 people |
| 04:34.36 | NightHawkTheSane | 25 people is probably out of the question |
| 04:39.38 | VonhintenHOME` | man, 4 seconds from the 25 patchwerk timer |
| 04:43.16 | Fisker- | Shirik |
| 04:43.18 | Fisker- | it's horrible |
| 04:43.41 | VonhintenHOME` | woot, my rogue just hit #1 on wow-heroes for Garona Rogues |
| 04:46.01 | Shirik | yeah, except that site is so broken it's amazing |
| 04:46.28 | VonhintenHOME` | it is, but I'm not a JC :) |
| 04:46.43 | Shirik | so? |
| 04:47.11 | VonhintenHOME` | That's one of the main ways people get put higher than they should be |
| 04:47.29 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan (n=karl@66.225.8.145) |
| 04:47.30 | VonhintenHOME` | the other thing is, I'm not mixing bad high ilvl gear to get there |
| 04:56.34 | Fisker- | hey Shirik |
| 04:56.38 | Fisker- | i haet u |
| 05:03.02 | Fisker- | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16137218954&pageNo=1&sid=1#10 <-hoho bornakk encouraging exploitation |
| 05:03.03 | Fisker- | tsk |
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| 05:04.26 | Cairenn | forum maintenance notification |
| 05:04.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras_ (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 05:04.59 | Cairenn | huggles Sargeras |
| 05:05.05 | Fisker- | OMG |
| 05:05.15 | Fisker- | YOU CAN'T JUST KILL THE FORUMS A MINUTE AFTER I POST FUNNEHS |
| 05:05.35 | Fisker- | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/16137218954-still-need-ony-cloak-for-bwl.html then |
| 05:05.38 | Cairenn | but they did |
| 05:08.41 | Syzgyn | Shirik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYhqv3EN7WA |
| 05:10.37 | Shirik | that's a neat little trick Syzgyn |
| 05:10.42 | Shirik | I assume that's not you |
| 05:10.46 | Syzgyn | Hah no |
| 05:11.04 | Syzgyn | Our raid dps was 2/3rds what their's was |
| 05:11.34 | Shirik | Yeah um |
| 05:11.39 | Shirik | I don't actually believe that video right now |
| 05:12.01 | Syzgyn | No? |
| 05:12.08 | Shirik | I haven't quite figured it out yet, but things are moving too quickly |
| 05:12.16 | Shirik | but the timestamp is normal |
| 05:12.42 | Syzgyn | I dunno, looked legit to me |
| 05:13.14 | Moleculor | Brute forcing 25 man Sarth is doable. There's a video on Tankspot. |
| 05:13.38 | Fisker- | hah |
| 05:13.40 | Fisker- | they're on my server |
| 05:13.46 | Fisker- | maybe i should report them for exploiting |
| 05:13.47 | Fisker- | hoho |
| 05:13.48 | Shirik | Do I need to show you the myth busters rubik's cube video, Moleculor? |
| 05:13.55 | Moleculor | They make nice videos. |
| 05:13.57 | Moleculor | The what? |
| 05:13.59 | Shirik | I hope that you have a brain and I don't |
| 05:14.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 05:14.21 | Syzgyn | Moleculor: thats where the video came from :P |
| 05:14.28 | Moleculor | Huh? |
| 05:14.40 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zePA3uIbB5I |
| 05:14.40 | Moleculor | What does Myth Busters have to do with Warcraft? |
| 05:14.42 | Syzgyn | Tankspot |
| 05:14.46 | Shirik | watch it and find out |
| 05:15.03 | Shirik | oh, that doesn't have the explanation |
| 05:16.14 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL1cbayRjL4 |
| 05:16.17 | Shirik | That's with the explanation |
| 05:17.18 | Shirik | Then again, I refuse to believe anything until it's proven to be true |
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| 05:17.48 | Fisker- | you can't reverse a sartharion kill duh |
| 05:17.56 | Shirik | ... |
| 05:18.00 | Shirik | I will destroy you |
| 05:18.27 | Moleculor | Technically you could if you don't show the initial pull. |
| 05:19.02 | Shirik | his health would go up :/ |
| 05:19.26 | Moleculor | ... And use a custom mod. |
| 05:19.34 | Moleculor | For health bars on unit frames. |
| 05:19.46 | Moleculor | Er, wait... |
| 05:19.56 | Moleculor | Sorry, I'm thinking of just editing the video. |
| 05:20.02 | Moleculor | Chopping off the first portion of it. |
| 05:20.33 | Moleculor | So I'm still confused though. What's Myth Busters have to do with Sartharion? |
| 05:20.51 | Shirik | I should also point out that I refuse to watch anything that starts off with "lol own" |
| 05:21.03 | Shirik | myth busters proving how easy it is to make anything look legit |
| 05:21.05 | Shirik | on a video |
| 05:21.42 | Shirik | ok, this is awesome |
| 05:21.48 | Shirik | sitting in wintergrasp as a holy priest |
| 05:21.55 | Shirik | I'm just running into masses of alliance and spamming holy nova |
| 05:22.01 | Shirik | 2 deaths, 24 KBs so far |
| 05:22.14 | Fisker- | Moleculor you could reverse it regardless of however he was pulled |
| 05:22.17 | Moleculor | Just think of how good Holy Nova'll be in 3.1. |
| 05:22.32 | Fisker- | But the Sartharion strategy revolves around killing all 3 drakes |
| 05:22.45 | Fisker- | reversing a movie won't remove those drakes |
| 05:23.12 | Fisker- | So unless they had only put up a movie of sartharion's hp bar then it might've been possible |
| 05:23.21 | Moleculor | Yes, I know what the strategy is. I'm talking cutting out the part with the drakes. |
| 05:24.13 | tekkub | hrm.. now there's a thought |
| 05:24.20 | tekkub | watching boss vids backwards |
| 05:24.30 | tekkub | 25 people sucking the magic out of a dragon |
| 05:24.42 | Fisker- | it's actually funny though |
| 05:24.47 | Moleculor | ... That'd be an awesome raid fight. |
| 05:24.50 | Moleculor | Time reverses? |
| 05:24.52 | Fisker- | they were forced to rename from kawk |
| 05:24.54 | Moleculor | Somehow? |
| 05:24.57 | Fisker- | because kawk = cock = duh |
| 05:25.13 | tekkub | sounds like a bronze dragon fight |
| 05:25.15 | Fisker- | But somehow, after a couple of years, they apparently got some GM to put it back |
| 05:25.24 | haleyss | Does anyone know how many xml pulls you can do on the armory per ip per second, minute, hour, to prevent a 24 hour ban? |
| 05:25.37 | Moleculor | Yes! You have to save a bronze dragon from death by somehow doing something that reverses time... killing Infinite Dragonflight mobs. |
| 05:25.39 | tekkub | 3.14 |
| 05:26.11 | Fisker- | Anyways |
| 05:26.16 | haleyss | It's pie? |
| 05:26.23 | Fisker- | looking at teh movie, they don't cut out the drakes, they don't run it reverse and they still do it |
| 05:26.25 | Moleculor | And then once all of his health is back, you do the fight all over again, ala Al'ar's second phase. |
| 05:26.30 | Fisker- | so legit!(though being an exploit etc) |
| 05:26.41 | tekkub | eveyone starts with 0 mana, you have to suck the mana out of the bronze in reverse, then he flips things back to normal and you unload it on the intinate |
| 05:26.45 | Moleculor | Exploit? DPS is an exploit? Or do they actually use one? |
| 05:26.47 | tekkub | repeat |
| 05:27.37 | Fisker- | Moleculor doing something not intended = an exploit |
| 05:28.31 | Moleculor | Creative use of game mechanics. |
| 05:29.10 | Fisker- | Creative (ab)use of game mechanics. |
| 05:29.42 | haleyss | Does anyone know if the armory has scheduled down times and what their maintenance windows are? |
| 05:30.19 | Moleculor | BTW, I keep seeing Blizzard say that DKs and druids made tanking Sarth3D 'trivial'. I haven't the faintest idea how 'nailbitingly close to death every 11 seconds and requiring the use of mutliple life-saving cooldowns in sequence' is 'trivial'. Does anyone have any idea? |
| 05:30.57 | Thrae | Moleculor: Duh you need everyone in Tier 10 at least. |
| 05:31.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Moleculor: DKs have a wide array of anti-magic or magic damage reducing abilities, plus stupid amounts of avoidance. Druids are more or less a blob of HP, dodge, and armor. Both work VERY well for 3D. |
| 05:32.10 | Fisker- | Not to mention tanking patchwerk |
| 05:32.27 | Fisker- | those "cooldowns" got the DK to last twice as long as the other tanks, except the druid |
| 05:32.32 | Moleculor | Yes. Very well. But they still require things like Guardian Spirit and Pain Suppression to be used on them as the fight goes on. |
| 05:32.51 | Shirik | disagree |
| 05:32.56 | ScytheBlade1 | ^ |
| 05:32.58 | Moleculor | They do in my raids. |
| 05:32.59 | ScytheBlade1 | I quit some time ago |
| 05:32.59 | Shirik | I don't remembe the last time I used either of them |
| 05:33.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Got our 3D kill about a week before 2009 |
| 05:33.14 | NightHawkTheSane | your raid may very well need to l2p? :P |
| 05:33.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Many people in assorted greens |
| 05:33.26 | Shirik | The MT is by far the least of our worries in sarth |
| 05:33.36 | Fisker- | i exploited my way to 3D |
| 05:33.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Back then, sure, GS/PS were timed and executed properly |
| 05:33.45 | Shirik | Fisker- you exploit your way through life |
| 05:33.47 | Fisker- | I mean why not? It's not like Blizzard will do anything about it ever |
| 05:33.53 | Fisker- | indeed Shirik |
| 05:33.54 | ScytheBlade1 | But with the gear you'd have now... it'd be trivial |
| 05:33.57 | Fisker- | If anyone else can, so can i |
| 05:34.07 | Moleculor | Our guild has downed 3D a couple times, but it's been an incredible struggle. Are you saying tanks just don't need cooldowns at all now? Because that's not how our fights are going. |
| 05:34.17 | Fisker- | I just have to watch out for corn patrol during Hallow's End |
| 05:34.24 | Shirik | I don't use my cooldowns to say the least |
| 05:34.34 | NightHawkTheSane | well, you're not a tank :P |
| 05:34.36 | Moleculor | Then something is very wrong with our tanks. |
| 05:34.53 | NightHawkTheSane | tanks still use their cooldowns, most likely. thats one thing that puts dks at a bit of an advantage |
| 05:35.11 | Fisker- | In my opinion cooldowns should only be nessecary when you screw up, or there's a phase transition of some sort that might change things up a bit |
| 05:35.12 | Moleculor | So, wait, you're saying you DPS through the second drake before the DK's cooldowns are gone? |
| 05:35.17 | Fisker- | You shouldn't have to use cooldowns to survive normal tanking |
| 05:35.31 | kd3 | sarth+3 isn't normal tanking |
| 05:35.45 | NightHawkTheSane | but, by this point, pretty much everyone even attempting it should be sitting in 25 man gear. |
| 05:35.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin_ (n=Wobin@203-214-143-235.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 05:36.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-214-143-235.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 05:36.04 | Moleculor | We're in 25 man gear, yes. |
| 05:36.10 | Fisker- | kd3 an encounter like that is supposed to challenge your skills and gear |
| 05:36.13 | Fisker- | Not your cooldowns |
| 05:36.25 | Shirik | proper use of cooldowns == skills? |
| 05:36.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes |
| 05:36.40 | Fisker- | depends |
| 05:36.41 | Moleculor | Our tanks still get oneshot by breaths unless they have a cooldown of some sort on them. |
| 05:36.52 | kd3 | hi2u guardian spirit |
| 05:37.16 | Fisker- | As i said "in o shi- moments, or transitions", doesn't rule out the usage of cooldowns |
| 05:40.01 | Moleculor | Ok, let me rephrase this question then: Are you folks managing to DPS down the second drake before you go through three or four cooldowns on a tank? That's about... 40 seconds, if I understand his breath timer correctly. |
| 05:40.20 | Shirik | Moleculor: Then your tanks have a problem |
| 05:40.30 | Shirik | If your tank is getting one shot, no amount of work is going to save them |
| 05:41.21 | Moleculor | So you're saying a tank should be able to survive the 40 or whatever thousand damage without cooldowns in 3D? |
| 05:42.23 | Shirik | oh I misread |
| 05:43.19 | Moleculor | Yeah, see, that's why I'm confused. Blizzard insists Sarth3D should be doable by any tank, and that DKs and druids make it 'too easy', but from my perspective warriors/paladins are 'impossible' and DK/Druid makes the fight 'barely winnable'. I'm trying to understand why. |
| 05:43.40 | NightHawkTheSane | the reasons are exactly what was said earlier |
| 05:43.43 | Fisker- | Because the design is failed :P |
| 05:44.29 | tekkub | because blizzy's definition of hard is "rock solid" and yours is "still floppy, but I can get it in"? |
| 05:44.42 | Fisker- | I think it's silly that you need 25-man gear for 10-man stuff, but i think it's even more silly that they're considering making 10-man only possible with 10-man gear |
| 05:44.57 | kd3 | only the achievements |
| 05:45.05 | kd3 | you're still welcome to roflstomp the instance using 25-man gear |
| 05:45.06 | Fisker- | yeah |
| 05:45.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Fisker-: no one cares what you think |
| 05:45.10 | Fisker- | that's what i meant with "10-man stuff" |
| 05:45.18 | Fisker- | your mom does NightHawkTheSane |
| 05:45.29 | NightHawkTheSane | my mom is no one, so my point stands |
| 05:45.39 | Fisker- | Everyone has a mom |
| 05:45.54 | tekkub | that doesn't mean her opinion matters |
| 05:46.30 | Fisker- | If they really should consider both raiding type seperate raiding paths, then combine the achievements |
| 05:46.47 | Fisker- | brb |
| 05:48.56 | tekkub | they should just provide a "buff" food that effectivly level-caps your gear, so people decked out in 25-man quality gear could go for the achievement at the level they design it for |
| 05:49.20 | tekkub | make the achievement "while wearing items of level x or lower, or with x buff" |
| 05:49.39 | Moleculor | They've got one achievement like that. |
| 05:49.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 05:49.57 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, that'd require work to write in that functionality |
| 05:50.04 | tekkub | so? :P |
| 05:50.08 | Moleculor | Kill Algalon while wearing gear of 226 or lower only in Normal mode. |
| 05:50.19 | NightHawkTheSane | so if i were blizzard, i'd say "fuck that noise" and just go with what they did |
| 05:50.21 | tekkub | wow's lack of artificial level capping is the one thing I've missed from FFXI |
| 05:50.22 | kd3 | so? they've had to write in the code to check the raid's ilvl for the achievement anyway |
| 05:50.36 | tekkub | it'd rock to go into deadmines and everyone is capped at level 25 |
| 05:50.46 | tekkub | no more easymode! |
| 05:50.58 | kd3 | gasp, heroic deadmines |
| 05:50.58 | Moleculor | http://ptr.wowhead.com/?achievement=3316 |
| 05:51.18 | tekkub | it would at least make old content slightly less trivial |
| 05:51.34 | kd3 | one problem though... dks? |
| 05:51.40 | tekkub | sure you won't go to get yourself gear, but you won't just bulldoze it over for the guy that needs it either |
| 05:51.46 | tekkub | what problem? |
| 05:52.12 | tekkub | you cap the player at level x and scale his gear stats down to match, like the heirloom gear already does |
| 05:52.41 | kd3 | ah. was thinking more of a 'grats, you're now level 25 with level-25 abilities' scaling |
| 05:52.43 | Fisker- | The whole itemlevel business is just silly, why should they expect players to keep several sets of DPS/Healing/Tanking gear just so they can do achievements in 10-man because they can't get anyone in 25-man because there's only 15 or so who can actually play properly |
| 05:53.09 | tekkub | that's the point I'm trying to make |
| 05:53.16 | tekkub | don't force people to keep old gear |
| 05:53.28 | tekkub | give them a way to impose artificial level cap |
| 05:53.40 | tekkub | then they can get the achievement that requires lower gear |
| 05:54.09 | Fisker- | Yeah they probably have a 10-man equilivant of every 25-man gear |
| 05:54.47 | tekkub | so they drink a nerf potion and their gear scales down to the 10-man stats |
| 05:55.55 | Fisker- | Well gonna go install W7 7077 |
| 05:56.04 | Fisker- | so i'll be back in half an hour or so |
| 05:56.12 | tekkub | too many 7's |
| 05:56.59 | Fisker- | I'm still waiting for the RTM build to be 7777 |
| 05:57.45 | ScytheBlade1 | ah, memories |
| 05:57.46 | ScytheBlade1 | http://images.aboveaverageurl.com/WoW/misc/Ishanah/chat.png |
| 05:57.52 | ScytheBlade1 | context: http://images.aboveaverageurl.com/WoW/misc/Ishanah/1.png |
| 05:58.15 | kd3 | lol |
| 05:58.32 | kd3 | <3 the guild name |
| 05:58.35 | Fisker- | massive win |
| 05:58.48 | Fisker- | i wish i was a mage :( |
| 05:58.59 | ScytheBlade1 | 'twas a good guild, it died but the forums are still active |
| 05:59.01 | ScytheBlade1 | but yeah |
| 05:59.05 | ScytheBlade1 | "get the gnome in the aldor tower" |
| 05:59.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I mean |
| 05:59.07 | Fisker- | Spellstealing other peoples mounts, polymorphing vendors in sanctuaries, etc. |
| 05:59.31 | ScytheBlade1 | ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz |
| 06:04.03 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 06:07.37 | kd3 | still laughs at the "Clams" section of the 3.1.0 patch notes |
| 06:08.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Ackis (n=asdf@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis) |
| 06:10.44 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 06:13.13 | Moleculor | I wish they'd fix Mind Vision. |
| 06:15.54 | Ackis | [2. Trade] [Norlac]: FRENCH LEGION? So, what do you guys do? Get in the instance and let the bosses kill you? |
| 06:15.56 | Ackis | lol |
| 06:16.53 | Moleculor | Back in the 1.x days, the tooltip was accurate. Unlimited range. So you could be in STV and Mind Vision someone in Eastern Plaguelands and it'd work. Now it's got about a 100 yd range but it still says Unlimited Range. :| |
| 06:21.20 | Ackis | eh you can still chain it can't you? |
| 06:21.59 | Moleculor | Buggily. It'll spontaneously break if they travel over certain areas. And chaining from STV to Eastern Plaguelands is a bit hard. |
| 06:22.30 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
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| 06:35.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Nechckn_AFK] by ChanServ |
| 06:36.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 06:38.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
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| 06:49.39 | Bibi | [08:15:36] <Ackis> [2. Trade] [Norlac]: FRENCH LEGION? So, what do you guys do? Get in the instance and let the bosses kill you? |
| 06:49.40 | Bibi | [08:15:38] <Ackis> lol |
| 06:49.45 | Bibi | and you're wondering why I'm not nice with you. :( |
| 06:54.06 | Ackis | lol |
| 06:54.33 | tekkub | "What causes a sore asshole" |
| 06:54.37 | tekkub | god I love spam |
| 06:54.49 | tekkub | gotta go look at the current subjects every other month or so |
| 06:55.12 | Ackis | Bibi: trade chat was a lot more interesting than that :P |
| 06:56.08 | tekkub | it is? all I've ever seen for the last few months is either "anal [link]" or "movie title with the word murloc substituted" |
| 06:56.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 06:57.01 | Fisker- | hmm |
| 06:57.09 | Ackis | they were making fun of a french speaking guild called french legion, so it was more than the anal stuff, murloc stuff, or thunderfury links |
| 06:57.18 | Fisker- | took a lot longer than it was supposed to |
| 06:57.47 | tekkub | oh true, maybe the french bastards can be more creative than the US children's |
| 06:58.15 | tekkub | Say it frenchie! Say chowdah! |
| 06:58.26 | Fisker- | hey Ackis btw |
| 06:58.50 | Ackis | Fisker-: I owned your face shut up |
| 06:59.16 | Fisker- | how so? |
| 07:00.47 | Ackis | is it wrong that i'm installing lotor online while playing wow? |
| 07:00.56 | Ackis | and Fisker- if you don't know then too bad |
| 07:02.17 | Fisker- | your mom is too bad |
| 07:02.23 | tekkub | Ackis: only if it's wrong for my to use synergy from my vista box to my mac, where I run VirtualBox to load XP so I can test shit in IE6 |
| 07:02.27 | tekkub | fucking IE6 |
| 07:02.46 | Ackis | lol |
| 07:03.17 | VonhintenHOME` | Hasn't MS EoL'd IE6 yet? |
| 07:03.35 | Ackis | my employer still uses IE6 |
| 07:03.37 | tekkub | does that even matter? |
| 07:03.52 | Fisker- | You can use IE7 pre-XP anyways |
| 07:03.53 | tekkub | my client's client's clients won't fucking update |
| 07:04.05 | VonhintenHOME` | typically, yeah. Companies get moving off things that aren't supported anymore |
| 07:04.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c209081.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 07:05.09 | Fisker- | http://www.wowhead.com/?blog=87729 <-well trolled |
| 07:05.29 | Sargeras | Happy Birthday Dolby!! |
| 07:05.45 | tekkub | poor old fuck |
| 07:05.46 | Dolby | not my birthday any more :( |
| 07:07.09 | VonhintenHOME` | christ, people are too serious about death |
| 07:07.32 | VonhintenHOME` | the loot drop comment was entirely within context, and funny, imo |
| 07:07.39 | Ackis | lol yes |
| 07:08.02 | Ackis | when my grandmother died, I wanted to play the song "ding dong, the wicked witch is dead" |
| 07:08.05 | tekkub | yup |
| 07:08.23 | Ackis | Dolby: did you turn old? |
| 07:08.24 | tekkub | well that's just tasteless ackis :P |
| 07:08.43 | Ackis | tekkub: it was true, she was a bitch |
| 07:08.51 | Dolby | no was already old. Found a nice retirement home today |
| 07:09.06 | Ackis | you in a walker yet? |
| 07:09.23 | tekkub | now he's just oldER |
| 07:09.25 | Dolby | yeah, the one with the wheels though |
| 07:09.39 | tekkub | Ackis: I didn't say it wasn't true, just tasteless |
| 07:09.40 | Ackis | good choice |
| 07:09.58 | VonhintenHOME` | it was bad taste.. that's a horrible song |
| 07:10.01 | Ackis | tekkub: family laughed :P I told my mom since I couldn't play it there, she's getting it when she dies |
| 07:10.12 | tekkub | Dolby: the one with real wheels and the little seat you can sit on? |
| 07:10.52 | Dolby | havent gotten my hover round yet. insurance is dragging their feet. |
| 07:11.45 | VonhintenHOME` | Hey, I figure, if you can make it into old age having gone through child birth chemical changes, and then menopause chemical changes, without being a psycho bitch, you're extremely lucky |
| 07:11.54 | VonhintenHOME` | women just go batshit crazy, that's all there is to it :) |
| 07:12.07 | tekkub | go? |
| 07:12.52 | VonhintenHOME` | yeah, some of them get an early start at it by immitating batshit crazy mothers though |
| 07:13.05 | Kemayo | It's sad when someone just copy-pastes huge chunks of your addon into theirs and doesn't even change the comments, or anything. |
| 07:13.16 | Ackis | Kemayo: you caught me finally! |
| 07:13.25 | Kemayo | For shame, Ackis. For shame. |
| 07:17.50 | VonhintenHOME` | Oh man, these Flask changes are roxors |
| 07:18.18 | VonhintenHOME` | goldclover instead of fire leaf for endless rage, and double health on stoneblood! |
| 07:19.28 | tekkub | and the duration and stack changes |
| 07:20.20 | VonhintenHOME` | yeah, knew about those... kinda nice |
| 07:20.30 | VonhintenHOME` | but also kinda screws mixologists |
| 07:20.37 | Fisker- | braid is seriously mindfuck |
| 07:20.42 | tekkub | it does? |
| 07:21.09 | VonhintenHOME` | yeah, you figure they're changing it so people don't have to use 2 flasks for a 3 hour raid and lose an hour |
| 07:21.21 | VonhintenHOME` | but now if there's a quick 1 hr raid, alchemists waste an hour |
| 07:21.32 | tekkub | whiners |
| 07:22.24 | Fisker- | let them last half an hour! |
| 07:22.26 | VonhintenHOME` | well, I'm fine with it.. but it is an interesting flip flop... but I guess the extended duration was an additional bonus above the 40% increase |
| 07:23.57 | Fisker- | potions and flasks should be a one-time craft |
| 07:24.36 | VonhintenHOME` | lol, but then they'd water them down like the Endless Mana Potion |
| 07:25.37 | Fisker- | naw |
| 07:25.46 | Fisker- | no need for that |
| 07:25.53 | Fisker- | Also remove durability |
| 07:26.26 | VonhintenHOME` | I just wish they'd lower the lichbloom requirement on my flask of endless rage... that shit is farmed to hell now |
| 07:26.34 | VonhintenHOME` | 7 per shot is pretty ugly |
| 07:28.24 | VonhintenHOME` | if they made it 3 lichbloom, 4 icethorn for instance, that'd be nice |
| 07:28.35 | VonhintenHOME` | That's about the ratio I get when farming |
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| 08:12.25 | Tem | woah |
| 08:12.35 | Tem | http 500 from blizzard forums |
| 08:12.43 | Tem | and I got the debug output |
| 08:13.24 | Tem | http://www.pastey.net/112019 |
| 08:14.06 | Fisker- | done that forever |
| 08:14.26 | Shirik | oh so that's why they run so badly |
| 08:14.28 | Shirik | they're running JSP |
| 08:14.42 | Shirik | com.blizzard.tassadar.client.filter.ClientFilter.doFilter(ClientFilter.java:132) |
| 08:14.44 | Shirik | awesome package name |
| 08:14.47 | Shirik | com.blizzard.tassadar |
| 08:16.26 | Fisker- | oooooold |
| 08:16.47 | Fisker- | btw Shirik |
| 08:16.54 | Fisker- | i've planted a bomb on the channel |
| 08:17.00 | Shirik | k |
| 08:17.22 | Fisker- | So if you go above 1 kicks per day the bomb blows |
| 08:17.25 | Fisker- | kicks of me of course |
| 08:17.49 | Fisker- | And i got a camera up so i know if you're kicking me |
| 08:21.19 | Fisker- | enjoys being immune |
| 08:23.46 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@dhcp-077-250-125-249.chello.nl) |
| 08:30.19 | Cairenn | ya know, tv programming at 0-dark-hundred really really sucks |
| 08:30.43 | Gnarfoz | is it that time? |
| 08:31.03 | VonhintenHOME` | food network or DVD's, those are your options |
| 08:31.06 | Cairenn | it is here |
| 08:31.15 | VonhintenHOME` | TV sucks period |
| 08:32.06 | Cairenn | yeah, but at o-dark-hundred, it's even lamer than usual |
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| 08:32.53 | Mysticell | agrees. |
| 08:33.21 | Mysticell | 4:34 AM. About to rev up the engine and get media center up... I don't particularly look forward to it. |
| 08:34.07 | Mysticell | feels like he's going to break 30k gold tomorrow. |
| 08:35.22 | VonhintenHOME` | leveling alts is breaking my bank.. 7k gold just to fly fast in wrath, painful |
| 08:35.52 | Mysticell | has no real 'alts.' |
| 08:36.55 | Fisker- | Braid is a mind fuck :( |
| 08:38.26 | Tem | Fisker-, you're just dumb |
| 08:42.59 | tekkub | *BUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPP* |
| 08:43.30 | Gnarfoz | that's nice of you to say, tekkub |
| 08:43.40 | Mysticell | prepares to hibernate, hopefully before the shockwave of *BUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPP* hits. |
| 08:46.15 | Mysticell | Hmm... look at what one of our guildies did to one of the other guildmasters on our realm... http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7030/sacrates3.png |
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| 08:53.08 | Fisker- | ur dumb tem|afk |
| 08:57.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@ip-88-153-117-200.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 09:15.44 | Wobin_ | hehe http://notalwaysright.com/ironically-she-was-seeing-get-smart/1792 |
| 09:22.03 | *** join/#wowuidev haleyss (n=what@cpe-65-29-222-250.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 09:27.00 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:28.46 | *** join/#wowuidev haleys (n=what@cpe-65-29-222-250.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 09:36.37 | Fisker- | GIVE ME BRAID |
| 09:38.01 | Fisker- | http://ftp.kw.bbc.co.uk/backstage/rdtv/episode1/readme.txt <-lol |
| 09:38.54 | Fisker- | gotta shut down BBC |
| 09:41.42 | Fisker- | jnwhiteh |
| 09:41.44 | Fisker- | my mortal enemy |
| 09:42.03 | *** join/#wowuidev haleyss (n=what@cpe-65-29-222-250.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 09:42.04 | Fisker- | ~seen jnwhiteh |
| 09:42.18 | purl | jnwhiteh is currently on #wowprogramming #wowuidev #wowace #curseforge, last said: 'please test first'. |
| 09:42.32 | Fisker- | fail purl |
| 09:42.33 | Fisker- | FAIL |
| 09:43.29 | *** join/#wowuidev JackBurton7676 (n=JackBurt@81.90.21.227) |
| 09:43.50 | JackBurton7676 | how dou dismiss pet with a backslash command? |
| 09:44.10 | JackBurton7676 | how do you enable/disable autocasting of pet spells with a backslash command? |
| 09:44.31 | Fisker- | you can't |
| 09:44.36 | JackBurton7676 | fudge |
| 09:44.39 | Fisker- | backslashes are \'s |
| 09:44.44 | Fisker- | you want one of them /'s |
| 09:44.55 | JackBurton7676 | u know wut i meant dood! |
| 09:44.58 | JackBurton7676 | lol |
| 09:45.06 | Fisker- | had to be said |
| 09:45.08 | Fisker- | :D |
| 09:45.17 | JackBurton7676 | kk you got me. pew pew pew |
| 09:45.42 | JackBurton7676 | .. /em falls down dramatically and stuffs |
| 09:46.00 | Fisker- | :( |
| 09:46.05 | Fisker- | dunno though |
| 09:46.06 | Fisker- | not a pet class |
| 09:48.49 | Gnarfoz | JackBurton7676: /run PetAbandon() |
| 09:49.09 | Gnarfoz | however, that might be releasing it permanently. |
| 09:49.10 | Gnarfoz | xD |
| 09:49.23 | Gnarfoz | !api DismissPet |
| 09:49.23 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'DismissPet'. |
| 09:49.25 | Gnarfoz | !api PetDismiss |
| 09:49.26 | lua_bot | Documentation for 'PetDismiss' can be found at http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/PetDismiss |
| 09:49.49 | Gnarfoz | well |
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| 10:14.37 | *** join/#wowuidev dbguy_ (i=dbguy@nblzone-226-241.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 10:15.28 | dbguy | Hey everyone. Is there a list of Interface Textures I can use somewhere, or does anyone know which data file they are stored in WoW? |
| 10:16.10 | dbguy | I'm running this MyWarcraftStudio (on wine, works fine btw) and checking out these .MPQ files but I'm not seeing any Interface related stuff.. but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place then! |
| 10:17.24 | dbguy | I was just wondering where WoW loads all this "Interface\PaperDollInfoFrame\UI-Character-ActiveTab" stuff from |
| 10:18.20 | zenzelezz | I don't know which files they are stored in, but the UI Kit you can download from Blizzard can extract them for you |
| 10:18.43 | dbguy | Oh ok.. |
| 10:20.56 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:21.03 | airtonix | one of those files |
| 10:21.07 | Kraftman | http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/WoW/other/AddOnKit.zip thats the windows one |
| 10:21.24 | dbguy | ah thanks airtonix! Found it :) just enGB for me |
| 10:21.48 | dbguy | It's just so much easier to view these on this program rather than try to extract blp files and then convert the blp files and then.. |
| 10:22.02 | cbreak | there's one of mac os too |
| 10:22.03 | airtonix | yeah that program is neat |
| 10:22.12 | dbguy | I'm on Linux |
| 10:22.16 | cbreak | and you can download it from http://wowcompares.com/ |
| 10:22.22 | cbreak | or just view the sources online |
| 10:22.29 | airtonix | same, it works fine in wine, except for the md2 models |
| 10:22.39 | airtonix | viewing those causes it to crash without error |
| 10:23.21 | airtonix | dbguy, you can also use BLPConverter.exe in bash scripts fine |
| 10:23.54 | *** join/#wowuidev kollektiv` (n=tim@haml-171.res.umass.edu) |
| 10:23.59 | airtonix | dbguy, do you have zenity installed? |
| 10:24.09 | dbguy | It seems I do. |
| 10:24.25 | airtonix | http://pastey.net/112024 |
| 10:24.38 | airtonix | place in your nautilus scripts folder |
| 10:25.09 | dbguy | I don't use GNOME (or KDE for that matter) but thanks for the offer |
| 10:25.14 | airtonix | openbox? |
| 10:25.20 | dbguy | xmonad |
| 10:25.27 | dbguy | .. and a terminal |
| 10:25.51 | airtonix | ah right, remove the zenity references and it should still work |
| 10:26.37 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 10:26.38 | airtonix | lines 8, 9 & 12 too |
| 10:26.47 | airtonix | those are for the zenity progress bar |
| 10:27.02 | dbguy | it's cool, MyWarcraftStudio works fine :) |
| 10:27.37 | airtonix | i'm still trying to find all the textures used in blacktemple |
| 10:27.49 | airtonix | i've looked everywhere through the mpqs |
| 10:28.16 | airtonix | only found a tiny portion of textures that i see in other peoples screenshots of the place |
| 10:29.37 | airtonix | like i want the complete set that matchs this one : http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/180039/wow-textures/BT_Door.tga |
| 10:30.56 | haleyss | Geez, armory has been down for a long time |
| 10:35.38 | haleyss | oh sexy, eu armory is up, guess I can play with that |
| 10:37.16 | VonhintenHOME` | So, a guildie is getting hacked right now, and has no idea what to do to stop it... can't log into his account, no phone number to call |
| 10:37.53 | airtonix | account as in via game interface? |
| 10:38.01 | zenzelezz | can he log in to account management on the website? |
| 10:39.46 | Gnarfoz | try to make him remember who he gave his account details to |
| 10:39.47 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 10:40.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 10:40.12 | VonhintenHOME` | no, can't log in anywhere, they changed the email too |
| 10:40.55 | Gnarfoz | you know you need access to the old email to change it to anything else? |
| 10:40.58 | zenzelezz | I thought you had to send a confirmation e-mail in order to change your e-mail address? |
| 10:41.58 | Gnarfoz | for this exact reason ^^ |
| 10:42.22 | zenzelezz | when I changed ISP and lost access to my old e-mail, I had to contact Blizzard and supply them with the CD key I used to register the account (+ some more) in order to have them change it for me... seems unlikely that someone would be able to do all that if it's a "simple" hack |
| 10:43.58 | haleyss | Does anyone know if there is an icon package for all the items? i.e. the icons that are used on armory and wowhead? |
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| 11:31.14 | dbguy | grr I hate this UI stuff |
| 11:33.17 | dbguy | any lonely and sad UI developer around? Want to make a good-looking UI (possibly according to my plans) for an otherwise awesome addon? FrameXML/texture/whatever stuff only, I have all backend code in place :x |
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| 11:34.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 11:34.34 | dbguy | (you don't have to be sad or lonely but those qualities are a plus) |
| 11:47.57 | haleyss | I'm debating if I want to cache all the wow items + icons or if I wan to use xml feeds, hrm. |
| 11:49.33 | haleyss | I really don't like relying on xml feeds cuz then you're relying on a3rd party, and if I would do wow's xml feed, but they are sometimes down, i.e. right now |
| 11:51.11 | dbguy | haleyss: cache them (whatever it is you are doing) |
| 11:54.50 | haleyss | Yeah, that's what I was thinking. |
| 11:55.19 | haleyss | I'll have to make a script that checks for item updates like once a week or something |
| 11:57.01 | haleyss | lots of things to play with, heard that blizzard only lets you make so many xml requests in a given period, gotta find out what those EXACT bounds are |
| 11:57.58 | haleyss | I only know php/mysql or else I would help you with your problem. :P |
| 11:59.54 | dbguy | haleyss: that'd be true yes. I used to harvest player data like crazy (for research purposes) with a script I made (bash+wget basically) and the blizzard servers would lock me out for 15 minutes every so often |
| 12:00.37 | dbguy | ip based ban |
| 12:01.09 | haleyss | actually found a full xml list of the items + all the icons from http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/guides.html?guide=502 - wewt :P |
| 12:01.56 | dbguy | making an item database, huh? |
| 12:02.03 | haleyss | yeah, me finding out what those boundaries are, is going to be a top priority here shortly, I need to know the limitations, might just email blizzard directly |
| 12:02.24 | haleyss | you could say that, making a pretty large site. :P |
| 12:02.50 | haleyss | items arem ore static, but need to know the boundaries for armory profile pulls |
| 12:03.55 | haleyss | trying to make a site that is kind of a niche, that hasn't really been done before, even though we'llhave the same content as wowhead, I don't want to compete against wowhead, my site will be using other features, mainly in terms of networking people together |
| 12:05.42 | haleyss | doing a lot of research atm. It seems like most sites are smart and cache armory data, I think that is the only option if you don't want any down time due to armory going offline |
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| 12:06.54 | dbguy | of course you'll *have* to cache the data somehow |
| 12:06.57 | haleyss | Seems like ZAM or more namely http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/guides.html?guide=502 is pretty helpful with outside developers |
| 12:07.00 | dbguy | you can't have every page load hit the blizzard's servers |
| 12:07.14 | haleyss | haha yeah :P |
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| 12:45.35 | WobWork | woo |
| 12:45.36 | WobWork | http://abstrusegoose.com/ebook |
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| 12:52.33 | Fisker- | ~kiss WobWork |
| 12:52.34 | purl | ACTION forces WobWork to give Aiiane a big kiss on the neck |
| 12:53.19 | WobWork | why the neck? |
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| 13:15.02 | Lunessa | station. |
| 13:15.31 | Lunessa | They way to my heart right now would be to offer me a cot, ear-plugs and a sleep-mask. |
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| 14:00.21 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/mom3.jpg |
| 14:00.25 | mikma | cool moms are cool |
| 14:00.34 | zenzelezz | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fail-owned-cut-out-fail.jpg?w=500&h=393 |
| 14:02.08 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 14:04.48 | geargrind | wtb ajmitch a new internet connection |
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| 14:05.24 | Lunessa | I'm going to be very, very, very sick of saying "Passwords should not contain any word easily found in a dictionary, or that could be easily guessed about you. Passwords should contain a mixture of upper and lower case letters, numbers, and special characters. Longer passwords are better than short ones. " |
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| 14:06.29 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/128767765149813455.jpg |
| 14:06.39 | mikma | lunessa: ^--- |
| 14:07.04 | Lunessa | mikma: I hate you. srsly. |
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| 14:07.41 | mikma | woooo |
| 14:08.07 | geargrind | o snap.net.nz |
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| 14:14.09 | haleyss | I had no idea carrot top was so ripped |
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| 14:15.11 | ajmitch | geargrind: it has been rather annoying this week |
| 14:15.18 | mikma | honestly, me neither :I |
| 14:15.25 | Lunessa | roids man, roids. |
| 14:15.43 | geargrind | Photoshopocort? |
| 14:15.56 | geargrind | i hear it's all the rage ;) |
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| 14:33.38 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
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| 14:44.21 | Lunessa | I know it's early, but someone hook a brother up with some vodka? It's going to be one of /those/ days. |
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| 14:49.20 | ZorbaTHut | vodka can be emailed, right? |
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| 15:04.10 | haleyss | With the wow xml feed, it says teamsize and size, anyone know the difference between these 2? |
| 15:04.23 | mikma | i got a wonderful idea for a addon! i'm gonna write it! |
| 15:04.25 | mikma | yey ;) |
| 15:04.58 | geargrind | haleyss: epeen? |
| 15:05.14 | haleyss | <arenaTeam battleGroup="Reckoning" created="1235174400000" faction="Alliance" factionId="0" gamesPlayed="0" gamesWon="0" lastSeasonRanking="0" name="NO TEAM NAMES LEFT GG" ranking="691" rating="1996" realm="Nathrezim" realmUrl="b=Reckoning&r=Nathrezim&ts=2&t=NO+TEAM+NAMES+LEFT+GG&ff=realm&fv=Nathrezim&select=NO+TEAM+NAMES+LEFT+GG" relevance="0" season="0" seasonGamesPlayed="241" seasonGamesWon="131" size="2" team |
| 15:06.02 | haleyss | geargrind: possibly |
| 15:06.42 | geargrind | cut off at size="2" team... (though pastey.net might be better anyway) |
| 15:07.34 | haleyss | size="2" teamSize="2" |
| 15:07.43 | geargrind | oh... |
| 15:07.50 | geargrind | one might account for backups |
| 15:08.01 | geargrind | or whatever the reserve members are called |
| 15:08.37 | haleyss | that's what I was thinking, but I viewed the xml on teams that have more/less than the team size and it still sayed the same number for both attributes |
| 15:08.51 | haleyss | stayed* |
| 15:08.54 | geargrind | odd |
| 15:10.15 | zenzelezz | did you examine (m)any other team XMLs? |
| 15:10.39 | haleyss | looked at 7 that have more/less so far |
| 15:12.16 | haleyss | yup, all the same |
| 15:12.42 | haleyss | i would think teamsize would be the bracket size and size would be the number of players on team |
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| 15:19.04 | geargrind | might be a bug or worth a suggestion. not sure how much attention they pay to suggestions about the website though |
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| 16:03.37 | mikma | [18:57:57] [Bad] whispers: Lol dude ill tell you what i do in BG's... |
| 16:03.40 | mikma | [18:57:58] To [Bad]: you did 700dps, and that's pretty horrible for a dk |
| 16:03.48 | mikma | [18:58:41] [Bad] whispers: CoL > plague strike > Obliriate> double blood strike > double frost strike> white dmg > triple icy touch gg.. |
| 16:04.16 | Wobin | CoL? |
| 16:04.26 | mikma | dunno |
| 16:04.32 | Wobin | is he facerolling? |
| 16:04.55 | foxlit | L, I. |
| 16:05.10 | foxlit | keys are like <--> this close |
| 16:05.11 | Lunessa | And... wtf is he talking about. A DK does 700 DPS just by showing up. |
| 16:05.23 | Wobin | Or maybe looking grumpily at someone |
| 16:05.24 | mikma | I KNOW damnit |
| 16:05.31 | mikma | he did 700dps in 25man VoA |
| 16:05.44 | Wobin | oh that's... terrible |
| 16:05.46 | mikma | he hit the boss 41 times when other melees hit min 2x that |
| 16:05.56 | Wobin | maybe he was running into the wall |
| 16:06.01 | Wobin | or standing in the cloud all the time |
| 16:06.03 | Lunessa | What's he using for a weapon, a wet fish? |
| 16:06.19 | mikma | titansteel destroyer |
| 16:06.22 | Lunessa | ... |
| 16:06.35 | Duman | lol? |
| 16:06.35 | mikma | he was called bad |
| 16:06.39 | mikma | what does that tell you |
| 16:06.40 | Wobin | what spec was he? |
| 16:06.53 | Wobin | that.. he quite possibly lives up to his name? |
| 16:06.55 | Duman | even 0/0/0 would do more than 700dps |
| 16:07.01 | Wobin | Or that he likes Michael Jackson |
| 16:07.02 | Lunessa | Maybe his name should be changed to [DontInviteMeISuck] |
| 16:07.27 | Wobin | I'm doing over twice his dps in 5 mans... |
| 16:07.31 | Wobin | as a 77 hunter |
| 16:07.31 | mikma | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Bad |
| 16:07.38 | mikma | that url doesn't work for me |
| 16:07.41 | mikma | but it's his character |
| 16:07.49 | foxlit | This character profile is currently unavailable, due to a long period of inactivity or as a result of high server load. |
| 16:07.55 | mikma | exactly |
| 16:08.07 | mikma | i get the same, eventho it's the real deal |
| 16:09.02 | Duman | just xferred? |
| 16:09.09 | mikma | it shows up in the list |
| 16:09.17 | Duman | dormant acct that jsut got haxed? |
| 16:09.18 | mikma | http://eu.wowarmory.com/search.xml?searchQuery=Bad&searchType=all |
| 16:09.20 | mikma | second on the list |
| 16:09.50 | mikma | well apparently whole eu armory is fooked |
| 16:10.01 | Duman | oh, well, that could be a better reason ;) |
| 16:11.08 | Wobin | night |
| 16:12.20 | mikma | oh |
| 16:12.23 | mikma | the best part... |
| 16:12.31 | mikma | he used Obliterate 3 times in the fight |
| 16:12.38 | mikma | nr.1 damage from him was icy touch |
| 16:12.42 | mikma | HE'S A CASTER DK! |
| 16:16.35 | mikma | i'm gonna name this addon Liljon |
| 16:17.10 | mikma | http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil_Jon |
| 16:21.01 | Zyndrome | >>fi.wikipedia.org |
| 16:21.11 | mikma | well, replace fi with en |
| 16:25.03 | mikma | http://wow.reaktio.net/WoWScrnShot_041009_192308.jpg |
| 16:25.28 | batrick | "PETA is no stranger to oddball campaigns. A recent one was aimed to re-christen fish as "sea kittens" because "who could possibly want to put a hook through a sea kitten?" " |
| 16:26.51 | dbguy | mikma: what would that addon do? |
| 16:27.12 | mikma | you can add yourself a reminder in the LDB addon to do *stuff* |
| 16:27.19 | mikma | nothing else :P |
| 16:27.41 | dbguy | ah right. Now you just need to remember to look to the topleft corner ;) |
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| 16:28.17 | mikma | yeah, text on screen is easier to see than something you need to remember :D |
| 16:30.53 | foxlit | Levelling up is such a negative event |
| 16:30.58 | dbguy | yeah |
| 16:31.12 | dbguy | that's why I'm still at 70 even though I've explored all of northerend :3 |
| 16:31.38 | foxlit | Ability costs increase, your gear becomes crappier... it's a net loss! |
| 16:32.17 | nevcairiel | You can't really explore all of icecrown or storm peaks on 70 |
| 16:32.47 | dbguy | nevcairiel: I did. I stealthed my way there and died a dozen times. Also a warlock helped me get to a few places where I couldn't go without a flying mount :) |
| 16:32.57 | dbguy | to be honest, there are a few places I haven't explored.. but only a few |
| 16:33.06 | nevcairiel | so you didn't explore it, someone ported you around |
| 16:33.17 | dbguy | well only initially ;) |
| 16:33.55 | nevcairiel | without flying, K3 is about the end of your travels into storm peaks |
| 16:34.00 | nevcairiel | unless someone ports you around |
| 16:34.08 | dbguy | right, and someone did. |
| 16:34.11 | Gnarfoz | hum? |
| 16:34.20 | Gnarfoz | there's free gryphons in storm peaks, nevcairiel |
| 16:34.25 | nevcairiel | but not on 70 |
| 16:34.33 | Gnarfoz | oh, well |
| 16:34.37 | Gnarfoz | didn't read all of this |
| 16:34.37 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 16:34.57 | nevcairiel | wonder if you get a ghost-gryphon when you die at 70 there |
| 16:35.02 | dbguy | nevcairiel: you can |
| 16:35.12 | dbguy | I mean you do get a ghost gryphon but not while alive.. |
| 16:35.33 | dbguy | anyway you don't get zone explorations while dead :( |
| 16:35.59 | nevcairiel | its much more fun exploring the place while questing the storyline, especially in storm peaks |
| 16:36.04 | nevcairiel | best zone, imho |
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| 16:38.09 | foxlit | storm peaks? It's winterspring 2.0! |
| 16:38.21 | geargrind | http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/f/f/get_a_brain_morans.jpg |
| 16:38.43 | geargrind | ^ fail |
| 16:39.23 | dbguy | mikma: Do you own wow.reaktio.net? |
| 16:39.33 | dbguy | mikma: I have a few questions about the screenshots you have there.. |
| 16:40.02 | mikma | dbguy: yes i "own" that address |
| 16:40.07 | dbguy | http://wow.reaktio.net/WoWScrnShot_040709_022523.jpg <-- first of all, what is the name of this addon? I'd like to be able to run Lua code in WoW when developing stuff but using /run is quite painful :( |
| 16:40.18 | mikma | it's same as http://mikma.reaktio.net/wow |
| 16:40.45 | mikma | dbguy: Hack, in wowinterface.com. http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info11101-Hack.html |
| 16:40.53 | dbguy | Thank you. |
| 16:41.03 | geargrind | dbguy: check out http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7366-WowLua.html as well |
| 16:41.11 | dbguy | second question.. do you always play WoW early morning 5 am? |
| 16:41.23 | mikma | sometimes when i don't feel like sleeping |
| 16:41.29 | dbguy | alright |
| 16:41.47 | mikma | night is the best time to code, lots if stupid errors that drive you mad |
| 16:41.53 | Lunessa | sleeping? Who does that? |
| 16:43.10 | dbguy | Lunessa: those who work in the day. |
| 16:43.22 | Lunessa | really? |
| 16:43.41 | Lunessa | Note: I rarely sleep. |
| 16:44.31 | dbguy | <Lunessa>I've had like, three hours of sleep in 2 days and bloodsugar is low, so I might not be as clear as I'd like. <Lunessa>Sleep is for the weak. |
| 16:44.36 | dbguy | yes yes I can see that grepping through my logs.. |
| 16:45.19 | Lunessa | The fact that you grepped for that ... |
| 16:45.28 | mikma | amazing actually |
| 16:46.37 | dbguy | [OT] Lunessa: I'm obsessed with my logs :] I actually run all my logs to a mysql db every night and have Sphinx (full text search engine) index them so I can search everything instantly \o/ |
| 16:47.20 | Lunessa | Between you, the logs feature, and google, I best just shut the hell up. |
| 16:48.25 | mikma | don't forget about the carrot top |
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| 17:16.17 | Fisker- | wonders if blizzard can enable account merges within the next week |
| 17:16.23 | Fisker- | Then it'll only have taken them a month |
| 17:16.24 | Fisker- | :3 |
| 17:20.43 | Dagmar | I begin to wonder if we're going to see the new Noblegarden this year on live |
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| 17:20.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|zZz] by ChanServ |
| 17:22.06 | nevcairiel | sure we will |
| 17:22.17 | nevcairiel | they will postpone the event until 3.1 is live |
| 17:22.19 | mikma | who cares lol! |
| 17:22.34 | mikma | another achievement hunting effect |
| 17:23.20 | Shirik | what event |
| 17:23.35 | mikma | nooblegarden |
| 17:26.11 | Dagmar | No, the bunny ears will be epic entertainment. |
| 17:26.28 | Dagmar | ...because they look absolutely preposterous on most non-female toons. |
| 17:26.36 | mikma | playboy |
| 17:26.46 | Dagmar | Easter Bunny ears. |
| 17:27.04 | Dagmar | I'm waiting to see the first people trying to rename their toon some variation of Viera |
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| 17:28.33 | Dagmar | heh |
| 17:28.54 | Duman | hmm |
| 17:29.07 | Duman | in case people missed it: |
| 17:29.08 | Duman | http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/04/10/obit.david.lance.arneson/ |
| 17:31.01 | *** join/#wowuidev kamdis (i=405f8902@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2a9d6c5ce77e49df) |
| 17:39.08 | Fisker- | hey Shirik |
| 17:44.16 | *** join/#wowuidev d87_ (n=x@host89-251-107-29.hnet.ru) |
| 17:44.58 | Cairenn | Duman: yeah, saw that :( |
| 17:54.09 | Shirik | heh, someone has too much time on their hands |
| 17:54.10 | Shirik | I just noticed our guild bank's gems are in rainbow order |
| 17:54.13 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 17:54.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Mysticell (n=nick@cpe-65-189-203-242.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 18:04.15 | kamdis | every now and then when i can't sleep I compulsively organize our guild bank |
| 18:04.23 | kamdis | it's soothing :) |
| 18:06.34 | Fisker- | hey Shirik |
| 18:06.52 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:06.52 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:07.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-67-183-90-200.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:19.43 | ZorbaTHut | man, I need a UI mod to remind me to pick up emblems |
| 18:20.35 | NeoTron | or wait until 3.1? :P |
| 18:21.01 | ZorbaTHut | or that :P |
| 18:21.13 | Gnarfoz | JusticeForAll |
| 18:21.24 | Gnarfoz | probably update it for wotlk emblem itemids |
| 18:22.25 | NeoTron | seems like a waste when they are making it work "as it should" come 3.1 |
| 18:23.24 | zenzelezz | depends when 3.1 hits |
| 18:23.33 | Gnarfoz | a) that and b) it's like 5 minutes of work :p |
| 18:23.53 | Fisker- | zenzelezz on tuesday or the week after |
| 18:24.29 | zenzelezz | Fisker-: that means he could still have open raids before then where he could forget to loot emblems |
| 18:25.51 | Gnarfoz | or even heroics ^^ |
| 18:28.11 | Fisker- | He could have that regardless of when it was released zenzelezz |
| 18:28.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras_ (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 18:29.50 | zenzelezz | Fisker-: how's that? I thought you said 3.1 would solve it |
| 18:29.59 | Fisker- | it will |
| 18:30.09 | zenzelezz | then I don't understand what you just said |
| 18:30.21 | Gnarfoz | today is friday |
| 18:30.21 | Fisker- | I'm saying you're pointing out the obvious |
| 18:30.24 | Fisker- | ^^ |
| 18:30.28 | Gnarfoz | not tuesday/wednesday |
| 18:30.55 | Gnarfoz | i.e. raids possible in the meantime |
| 18:30.58 | Gnarfoz | i.e. addon still useful |
| 18:31.00 | Gnarfoz | :) |
| 18:42.31 | Fisker- | Gnarfoz |
| 18:42.35 | Fisker- | do you like fishsticks? |
| 18:45.01 | Lunessa | Wired.com: Are either of you married? Matt Yuan: Hmm.... Let's think about this.... We read comic books, obsess over zombies, and still know the THAC0 of a Level 4 thief from D&D (the first version).... Surprise, surprise! We're still single, ladies! - http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2009/04/gun-toting-movi.html |
| 18:46.26 | *** join/#wowuidev subu (n=s@y18.ip6.netikka.fi) |
| 18:49.40 | kamdis | So, if [target=Totem] is working for totem killing macros again, that's a bug, right? I thought they fixed it, but there are some people on the DK forums claiming it's working. |
| 18:50.04 | kamdis | And, if it's a bug, should I report it? |
| 18:50.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Shouldn't work on hostile targets |
| 18:50.19 | ScytheBlade1 | So probably |
| 18:51.27 | ArrowmasterClass | shouldnt work at all |
| 18:51.43 | ArrowmasterClass | people are likely stupid and just think its working when its not |
| 18:56.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Pytlask (i=c64a263b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-56d9446cf90ef86d) |
| 18:56.34 | kamdis | that could be, I guess. |
| 18:57.26 | Gnarfoz | Fisker-: I do, got some? |
| 18:57.28 | Lunessa | I'm perfectly willing to help test - but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work. |
| 18:58.16 | Gnarfoz | that's not the syntax of [target=] anyway |
| 18:58.27 | Gnarfoz | it only takes valid unitnames :X |
| 18:58.38 | nevcairiel | and names of players in your party/raid |
| 18:58.44 | Gnarfoz | (and before you say it takes player names, duh, those are mapped in groups!) |
| 18:58.47 | Gnarfoz | damn you nev |
| 18:58.55 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 18:59.08 | nevcairiel | you're too slow, my friend |
| 18:59.13 | Gnarfoz | indeed |
| 18:59.16 | Lunessa | We know this. :) |
| 18:59.18 | Gnarfoz | should've put it all in one line :p |
| 18:59.29 | Gnarfoz | well, "people on the DK forums" don't :D |
| 18:59.32 | Gnarfoz | someone tell em? :D |
| 18:59.43 | nevcairiel | s/DK// |
| 19:02.35 | Gnarfoz | hehe |
| 19:03.15 | Fisker- | How do you distinguish skytalons in a combat log? |
| 19:03.16 | kamdis | i did tell them |
| 19:03.32 | kamdis | that's when those who posted the [target=totem Name] macros said they worked. |
| 19:03.33 | Gnarfoz | Fisker-: via guid |
| 19:03.48 | Fisker- | yo momma? |
| 19:03.51 | Gnarfoz | kamdis: unpossible! :O |
| 19:03.54 | kamdis | and since it had been an issue previously, that was fixed, I thought perhaps it was a BUG that I should report. |
| 19:03.58 | Fisker- | So guid on the skytalon is the same as the player or what? |
| 19:04.05 | Gnarfoz | when was that an issue? |
| 19:04.34 | kamdis | like 2-3 patches ago |
| 19:04.34 | Gnarfoz | Fisker-: no? it's a unique one per skytalon |
| 19:04.36 | kamdis | when 10 hojillion hunters came crying to UI & M that it "broke" |
| 19:04.37 | Gnarfoz | kamdis: never read about that oO why would it, totems are not units :\ |
| 19:04.45 | Fisker- | Ah yeah but this program seems to be able to figure out which players own the skytalon |
| 19:04.47 | kamdis | it was a bug |
| 19:04.51 | kamdis | that got fixed |
| 19:04.53 | Fisker- | Which i thought wasn't possible |
| 19:05.02 | Gnarfoz | of course that's possible |
| 19:05.14 | Gnarfoz | in game, at least |
| 19:05.16 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 19:05.37 | Gnarfoz | from only the combat log... not sure how far that effort has gotten |
| 19:05.46 | nevcairiel | I haven't checkd in combatlogs, but it could as well be possible |
| 19:05.54 | nevcairiel | depending if they fire a proper event |
| 19:06.12 | Fisker- | Any of you got a malygos log? |
| 19:06.18 | Fisker- | i.e. the combatlog not a parse |
| 19:06.57 | Gnarfoz | yeah, needs a summon event, but the fact that there were people trying to figure out how to match them |
| 19:07.04 | Gnarfoz | kind of tells me it wasn't that easy |
| 19:07.05 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 19:07.05 | Shirik | ok, I think our guild is broken |
| 19:07.11 | Fisker- | fuck yeah Shirik |
| 19:07.22 | Shirik | I'm looking at the roster right now and it says this one member is at our rank "Probie" |
| 19:07.34 | Shirik | so I do /script for x = 1,10 do print(x, GuildControlGetRankName(x)) end |
| 19:07.40 | Shirik | and I see 6 == Probie |
| 19:07.48 | Shirik | ok. So I run through the roster to find what his rank index comes back as |
| 19:07.52 | Shirik | and it comes up as 5 |
| 19:08.03 | Gnarfoz | GuildControlGetRankName()? |
| 19:08.10 | Gnarfoz | isn't there a different function for that? |
| 19:08.18 | Shirik | I dunno |
| 19:08.19 | foxlit | And you assume that those indices refer to the same stuff because... |
| 19:08.23 | Shirik | Because they should! |
| 19:08.31 | foxlit | Ah. No problem there, then. :) |
| 19:08.46 | nevcairiel | I think the damn ranks were offset by one, or something |
| 19:09.07 | nevcairiel | i've seen that in code before |
| 19:09.11 | Shirik | well now I have this problem -- are they /always/ offset by one or should I find a different way of doing it |
| 19:09.12 | nevcairiel | seems to have always been like that |
| 19:11.10 | Gnarfoz | Fisker-: combatlog doesn't seem to tell the story |
| 19:11.12 | nevcairiel | the index for all GuildControl* APIs will always be one higher then the roster value |
| 19:11.13 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 19:14.05 | Fisker- | baw Gnarfoz |
| 19:14.13 | Fisker- | lets kill blizzard irl |
| 19:14.16 | Gnarfoz | Fisker-: what "app" are we talking about here? |
| 19:14.26 | Gnarfoz | Fisker-: certainly, do tell me when you pass through Germany, I'll join you then |
| 19:16.34 | Stanzilla | can we kill Fisker- instead? |
| 19:16.35 | Fisker- | http://ehfs.event-horizon-gilde.de/ |
| 19:16.50 | Gnarfoz | do mobs have the same mobid regardless of instance difficulty? |
| 19:18.02 | Shirik | wow that looks pretty cool |
| 19:18.07 | Shirik | Gnarfoz: GUID? |
| 19:18.20 | Shirik | They don't even have the same GUID between the same encounter |
| 19:18.32 | Gnarfoz | that's why I didn't say GUID? wtf |
| 19:18.33 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 19:18.39 | Shirik | well wtf is "mob id" |
| 19:18.53 | Fisker- | the internal id for the npc |
| 19:18.57 | Shirik | oh |
| 19:19.00 | Gnarfoz | something that is part of the GUID... |
| 19:19.01 | End | the npc id is in the GUID |
| 19:19.12 | Gnarfoz | mobID = tonumber(destGUID:sub(6,12),16) |
| 19:19.13 | Gnarfoz | to be exact |
| 19:19.17 | Gnarfoz | thanks for playing, though! :P |
| 19:19.26 | Gnarfoz | anyone else? :D |
| 19:19.29 | Shirik | If I had to guess, I'd say no |
| 19:19.34 | Fisker- | i'm pretty sure it's the same though |
| 19:19.34 | End | (the other part is the spawn counter) |
| 19:19.43 | Gnarfoz | it seems they do, because wowhead's pages are indexed by that ID |
| 19:19.50 | End | yup |
| 19:20.01 | Gnarfoz | fair enough |
| 19:20.16 | Shirik | wowhead doesn't have 2 entries for malygos? |
| 19:20.29 | Gnarfoz | nope |
| 19:20.34 | Shirik | hm |
| 19:20.40 | Shirik | curious, because they have different attributes |
| 19:20.43 | Gnarfoz | he uses different spellids |
| 19:20.51 | Gnarfoz | but it's the same mob |
| 19:20.57 | Shirik | hp also |
| 19:21.01 | Gnarfoz | that, too |
| 19:21.19 | Gnarfoz | interesting implementation, but I guess it's just evidence that they tacked this on after the initial design |
| 19:21.33 | Gnarfoz | (which is obvious) |
| 19:21.46 | End | probably easier to deal with this way |
| 19:22.51 | *** join/#wowuidev thamaht (n=thamaht@pool-96-228-3-2.rcmdva.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:22.55 | Gnarfoz | easier than to make a change that goes lower in the system ^^ |
| 19:24.50 | End | well, if you think about how the fight works, not only do you have to deal with only one spawn, but the fight script wouldn't have to change as much |
| 19:25.05 | End | well, I guess it wouldn't have to change much |
| 19:25.35 | End | I probably shouldn't speculate too much :P |
| 19:26.03 | Gnarfoz | just goes to show that it would be mighty interesting to have a look at how all this works :P |
| 19:26.11 | End | yeah, I agree |
| 19:26.18 | Shirik | I am consistently scared about how all this works |
| 19:26.25 | Shirik | when you think about how much a given server has to do |
| 19:26.33 | End | or avoids doing >_> |
| 19:26.38 | Shirik | and the response times that its clients are expecting |
| 19:27.01 | End | I can't help but wonder how much gets pushed to client sometimes |
| 19:27.30 | Moleculor | A LOT, I bet. |
| 19:27.33 | Shirik | Well, it's all just risk management, basically |
| 19:27.51 | Shirik | What are you willing to give to the client that either (a) can't have reprocussions, or (b) isn't a major issue if it's circumvented |
| 19:27.59 | thamaht | jumping. |
| 19:28.15 | Gnarfoz | for example ^^ |
| 19:28.17 | Shirik | examples: letting the client come up with damage numbers would be bad, but letting the client figure out how fast to move would be probably ok |
| 19:29.23 | ArrowmasterClass | the client does figure out how fast to move |
| 19:29.29 | Shirik | that's why I said it |
| 19:29.32 | Gnarfoz | xD |
| 19:29.45 | Shirik | my "probably" comment was with regards to the risk associated with it |
| 19:30.14 | ArrowmasterClass | thats the problem with mmos and cheating, a lot of things have to be done by the client because the server doesnt have enough power to do it for all the players |
| 19:30.40 | End | nods. |
| 19:30.45 | Gnarfoz | luckily, WoW is young enough for servers to be fast enough to do close to all the "delicate" stuff |
| 19:30.57 | Shirik | so what you do is figure out what you're going to check server-side and what you're going to check manually |
| 19:31.19 | Shirik | and then try to make checking manually as easy as possible |
| 19:35.15 | Lunessa | Swedish Tax Office Targets Webcam Strippers - The title is worth the read. http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/10/163253&from=rss |
| 19:39.59 | Cairenn | "A slightly disheveled project leader said ... " |
| 19:51.30 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.0.x ToC: 30000 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Okay, who put a "stop payment" on my reality check? |
| 19:54.49 | Shirik | huggles Cairenn |
| 19:54.56 | Cairenn | huggles Shirik |
| 19:56.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:00.40 | thamaht | Anyone know of a solid texture (e.g., Interface/DialogFrame/UI-DialogBox-Background, but not partially transparent) in the base UI, or know where I can find a reference to how to use an external texture? |
| 20:01.20 | foxlit | If you just need a solid texture, you don't need a texture image. |
| 20:01.43 | thamaht | Trying to edit a ButtonFacade skin, and it doesn't like not having the texture line. Already tried just removing it. :I |
| 20:03.17 | thamaht | Instead of just being black, as I'm specifying, it just doesn't show up at all.. and I probably /could/ do it with kgpanels, but that would involve setting up a seperate panel for each buff icon, which would take forever and be terribly inefficient. |
| 20:05.03 | foxlit | The problem is that the default UI never needs a solid texture because it can just do |
| 20:05.07 | foxlit | :SetTexture(1,1,1) |
| 20:05.08 | Fisker- | slaps foxlit around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:05.21 | *** join/#wowuidev kollektiv` (n=tim@haml-69.res.umass.edu) |
| 20:06.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:06.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 20:06.30 | thamaht | If they didn't make antialiasing affect the UI (whose bright idea was that?) or cause pixel straddling it would be so much easier. >_< |
| 20:07.12 | thamaht | Clean 2px black borders with antialiasing on is all I'm after, really. :) |
| 20:08.17 | Iriel | Depending on what resolution you're at, an antialised UI can look lots nicer |
| 20:08.51 | Zyndrome | law, did Sarth melee-zerg |
| 20:08.54 | Zyndrome | 1min 22sec |
| 20:08.57 | Zyndrome | lawl |
| 20:12.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar_ (i=dagmar@c-98-193-195-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 20:14.43 | thamaht | Trying for more of a heavy pixel art style, which doesn't work real well with AA. :p |
| 20:15.09 | foxlit | Are you certain that AA is what your problem is? |
| 20:15.53 | thamaht | If you want, I'll post comparison screenshots. It gets smudged when I turn on AA. :[ |
| 20:16.54 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 20:17.25 | foxlit | Or, well, how do you specify that something must be 2 *pixels* wide? |
| 20:17.49 | TopTop18 | A frame? |
| 20:18.04 | foxlit | or a texture, in your case. |
| 20:18.28 | TopTop18 | In XML? |
| 20:18.39 | thamaht | By either setting a kgpanel behind it 2px larger on all sides without a border, or a kgpanel with a border I've created that will be 2px (how I did buffs and buff bars). Still doesn't work nicely with AA |
| 20:19.16 | foxlit | TopTop18: I don't really care what in. |
| 20:19.38 | TopTop18 | I'll get my files back and give an example in 3 min :D New pc :D |
| 20:19.47 | foxlit | thamaht: the problem I'm trying to point out that the units aren't necessarily pixels. |
| 20:21.17 | foxlit | So you might be saying "2 of something" larger on all sides, while 1 something is actually equal to 1.2 pixels (or whatever -- depending on scaling). |
| 20:21.46 | TopTop18 | Just adjust bit till it's the size you want :D |
| 20:22.04 | thamaht | Wow normalizes against a 1024x768 scale for UI (dunno why). Set UI scale to be 768/1050 (.74 something), so it comes out even. |
| 20:22.24 | thamaht | Here's clean, 2px borders everywhere: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5269/wowscrnshot041009161738.jpg |
| 20:22.33 | theorbtwo | thamaht: Makes perfect sense to me... |
| 20:22.43 | thamaht | Here's dirty: player frame is TERRIBLE. http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7721/wowscrnshot041009161936.jpg |
| 20:22.54 | thamaht | Only difference is AA enabled. :( |
| 20:23.07 | thamaht | Gotta go move my car so I don't get a ticket, brb. |
| 20:24.57 | Shirik | sigh |
| 20:25.07 | theorbtwo | thamaht: Er, I can just barely see any difference, other then the squisshed icons at far right middle vertically, between the two, if I flip back and forth. |
| 20:25.11 | Shirik | I'm reading a paper on security |
| 20:25.16 | theorbtwo | I think you are obsessing over nothing. |
| 20:25.16 | Shirik | Do people even proofread these things? |
| 20:25.31 | TopTop18 | Lol |
| 20:25.54 | Shirik | When performing the attack it would be useful for the attacker to get the SQL Injection results back when exploiting classical non blind SQL Injection, someone could think that it would be fairly difficult given the scenario but it's not, Alex Kouzemtchenko from SIFT (www.sift.com.au) came up with a good and interesting idea [3] which consists of embedding returned data in any HTML tag that can be used for cross dom |
| 20:26.03 | Shirik | That entire paragraph is a single, unreadable sentence |
| 20:26.11 | foxlit | [Future You] is swining Zhar'doom at the infinite dragonflight :/ |
| 20:26.27 | foxlit | how silly |
| 20:26.27 | TopTop18 | new computer works awesome :D Installs wow fully+patching within an hour :D Previous pc did it in abou 12 hours XD |
| 20:26.39 | Shirik | foxlit: That quest is fun :) |
| 20:26.57 | foxlit | I don't know why they haven't thought of casters! |
| 20:27.43 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:27.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 20:27.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-14-202.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 20:27.57 | TopTop18 | Could some say a message with my name? Gotta look if I put all settings right with mIRC XD |
| 20:28.50 | alestane | Test for TopTop18 |
| 20:28.51 | theorbtwo | TopTop18: Try talking to a bot. |
| 20:29.46 | TopTop18 | Nope... |
| 20:31.41 | TopTop18 | How did I made messages with my own name highlight? |
| 20:32.35 | thamaht | Back --- and yeah, I'm insanely anal retentive about what I'm trying to do. I just don't understand the logic in A: normalizing the UI against a 1024x768 default as opposed to just determining positions of ui elements on resolution change or reloadui, and B: making the UI be affected by AA, as they already have the ability to have smooth corners because of supporting tga alpha channels. |
| 20:32.41 | TopTop18 | Purl? |
| 20:33.36 | TopTop18 | Could someone print another test :D |
| 20:33.46 | Shirik | TopTop18: no |
| 20:33.59 | TopTop18 | Meh hate those unfindable settings... |
| 20:34.34 | Shirik | get nbs-irc and be done with it |
| 20:34.46 | Shirik | using mirc without a script is like using a stove without a frying pan |
| 20:34.57 | TopTop18 | :D |
| 20:35.03 | TopTop18 | well works great normally |
| 20:35.08 | Shirik | no it doesn't |
| 20:35.15 | TopTop18 | when i have set all things right XD |
| 20:35.15 | Shirik | you've just never seen anything better |
| 20:35.21 | TopTop18 | Could be |
| 20:35.29 | nevcairiel | I kinda like the fixed UI positioning, that way you don't have to redo your whole UI when you change your resolution |
| 20:35.30 | TopTop18 | Now one last test plz :D |
| 20:35.35 | Shirik | is using nbs-irc 2.39 (theme: cold) - www.nbs-irc.net |
| 20:35.38 | Shirik | go |
| 20:35.39 | Shirik | gogo |
| 20:36.03 | Gnarfoz | xchat on irssi oO |
| 20:36.04 | thamaht | TopTop18 is going to fail the test, imo. |
| 20:36.09 | TopTop18 | TopTop18 Test look if I can test myself :D |
| 20:36.14 | TopTop18 | Nope.... |
| 20:36.18 | theorbtwo | xchat *on* irssi? |
| 20:36.57 | Gnarfoz | theorbtwo: irssiproxy :) |
| 20:37.10 | theorbtwo | Hm, interesting. |
| 20:37.19 | theorbtwo | I always thought xchat was a client in it's own right. |
| 20:37.36 | *** join/#wowuidev kollektiv (n=tim@haml-113.res.umass.edu) |
| 20:37.37 | theorbtwo | uses irssi inside of screen to solve the problem irssiproxy seems designed for. |
| 20:37.55 | TopTop18 | Now it should work |
| 20:38.04 | TopTop18 | Setting was called Highlight :D |
| 20:38.10 | TopTop18 | In some far away menu |
| 20:38.35 | Gnarfoz | theorbtwo: it is a client in it's own right, but I connect to my irssi (abusing it as a proxy that is actually a full client, for when I'm not at home) with it, instead of connecting directly |
| 20:39.08 | TopTop18 | *annoys till I get my final message with my name to check settings* |
| 20:39.35 | Gnarfoz | but you're probably on linux |
| 20:39.38 | theorbtwo | Oh. irssiproxy serves IRC? |
| 20:39.41 | theorbtwo | Gnarfoz: Yes. |
| 20:39.42 | Gnarfoz | yes |
| 20:39.54 | theorbtwo | Interesting design. |
| 20:39.55 | thamaht | TopTop18 /angry |
| 20:39.55 | Gnarfoz | it does, it makes irssi be something like ZNC, psyBNC etc |
| 20:40.00 | TopTop18 | YAY!!! |
| 20:40.08 | TopTop18 | Thx thamaht |
| 20:40.08 | Gnarfoz | theorbtwo: irssi on windows just doesn't feel right somehow ;> |
| 20:40.33 | theorbtwo | Fair enough. |
| 20:40.39 | Gnarfoz | let alone I'd actually be using putty + I'd have "UI" lag |
| 20:40.43 | Gnarfoz | (because of ssh) |
| 20:40.53 | Gnarfoz | I guess I could use irssi to connect to irssi |
| 20:40.54 | Gnarfoz | lol |
| 20:41.11 | TopTop18 | Bye all! |
| 20:41.24 | theorbtwo | UI lag? Shouldn't really be noticable inside your local network. |
| 20:41.29 | Gnarfoz | huh? |
| 20:41.34 | nevcairiel | who said its local? :p |
| 20:41.36 | Gnarfoz | it's not local |
| 20:41.52 | ScytheBlade1 | It isn't noticeable for me at all -- a few thousand miles away |
| 20:42.15 | Gnarfoz | ScytheBlade1: that is, until your home connection is maxed out by some down or upload and you still want to IRC |
| 20:42.32 | Gnarfoz | it's on my dedicated server, which, unlike my home connection, has 24/7 connectivity, that's the main reason |
| 20:43.04 | Gnarfoz | (like most people who use BNCs/proxys) |
| 20:43.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Gnarfoz: oh, you mean when four people here stream HD movies? |
| 20:43.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, that's why I labeled my SSH port as "minimial-latency" |
| 20:43.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Bam, problem solved |
| 20:44.14 | Gnarfoz | nothing to label here that works, also, home connection isn't fast enough to "stream HD movies" |
| 20:44.22 | Gnarfoz | leave alone lack of anyone offering such |
| 20:44.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Just saying that I have a similar problem here and there are solutions |
| 20:44.59 | nevcairiel | QoS doesnt always work |
| 20:45.03 | Gnarfoz | well... what nevcairiel said |
| 20:45.23 | ScytheBlade1 | I have an embedded linux box here, I've managed to *make* it work |
| 20:45.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Bit more effort and money than a standard home router, entirely worth it |
| 20:45.45 | Gnarfoz | upstream is just so limited... downloading at full speed fills up half of the upstream with the download's associated ACK stuff :p |
| 20:45.51 | nevcairiel | it certainly helps, but if your connection is really maxxed out, you'll still notice some lag |
| 20:46.00 | Gnarfoz | I have a full PC (my first one, actually, kind of) as my router. |
| 20:46.02 | Gnarfoz | with wondershaper |
| 20:46.08 | Gnarfoz | doesn't help much, really |
| 20:46.20 | ScytheBlade1 | wondershaper is a bit generic |
| 20:46.40 | Gnarfoz | didn't find anything else I grok'd how to use back then |
| 20:46.46 | ScytheBlade1 | fair enough |
| 20:47.10 | Gnarfoz | I'm gonna revisit it when I get to installing the replacement machine for that old lump of hardware |
| 20:47.12 | nevcairiel | Also, i wish there was a decent HD streaming provider around here, which streams the videos in both german and english, i hate watching movies in german, but usually the US or UK providers don't accept "outside" customers =P |
| 20:47.13 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:47.22 | Gnarfoz | ScytheBlade1: what are you using for QoS? |
| 20:47.35 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: sigh... 100% ack :p |
| 20:47.45 | nevcairiel | I would actually pay for movies then |
| 20:47.56 | nevcairiel | due to t he lack of that, i just pirate 720p rips |
| 20:48.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Gnarfoz: hand-written iptables and tc rules |
| 20:48.40 | Gnarfoz | ugh |
| 20:48.44 | ScytheBlade1 | again, a bit more effort than most people care about |
| 20:48.45 | Gnarfoz | I wouldn't know where to start ;p |
| 20:50.19 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: Proxy through a us IP address? |
| 20:50.40 | nevcairiel | like i get any usable speed then |
| 20:51.07 | Lunessa | I have one word - Netflix. |
| 20:51.16 | alestane | I love the closure on this one: http://notalwaysright.com/best-idea-ive-heard-all-day/1788 |
| 20:51.31 | ScytheBlade1 | alestane: yeah |
| 20:51.34 | *** join/#wowuidev flugh (n=El@166.203.69.6) |
| 20:52.08 | Lunessa | âYes, are you finished?â |
| 20:53.10 | Gnarfoz | Lunessa: netflix? non-us? *scratches head* |
| 20:54.22 | VonhintenHOME` | Anyone have folks in their guild get hacked in the last week? |
| 20:55.40 | Lunessa | Netflix still sends discs internationally (not every where, but... ) |
| 20:57.44 | Gnarfoz | no, we don't share account info, don't buy gold or use leveling services, etc |
| 20:57.52 | ZorbaTHut | I have noticed that there seem to be more than the normal number of people on my server begging for money because their account got compromised |
| 20:58.05 | ZorbaTHut | including one guy who was actually begging for *someone else's account* |
| 20:58.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 20:59.07 | Gnarfoz | perhaps one company re-visiting old acc info? :P |
| 20:59.44 | Lunessa | ZorbaTHut: That's a pretty typical scam for cash. "I got hacked, zomg, lost everything, plx geif halp." |
| 20:59.55 | zenzelezz | no wai |
| 20:59.59 | ZorbaTHut | lunessa, yeah, agreed, I'm just seeing it uncommonly often recently |
| 21:00.18 | Gnarfoz | someone probably re-re-posted the idea on mmowned |
| 21:00.20 | Gnarfoz | or whatever |
| 21:00.27 | ZorbaTHut | although I've never heard the "I got hacked, zomg, lost everything, plx geif me your account also kthx" attempt before |
| 21:00.35 | Lunessa | There's actually a guide or three for MMO players that recommends using that line of bull. |
| 21:00.59 | ZorbaTHut | I've heard the best way imaginable to annoy those people, if you were about to log off |
| 21:01.12 | ZorbaTHut | open a trade window, put 1000g in the box . . . and then just walk away |
| 21:01.19 | ZorbaTHut | from the computer, that is |
| 21:01.20 | Lunessa | Yeah. :D |
| 21:01.29 | ZorbaTHut | best results if you have a plugin that logs whispers. |
| 21:01.30 | tekkub | only 1k? |
| 21:01.40 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, modify value as you see fit. :) |
| 21:01.58 | Gnarfoz | just put in all you have |
| 21:02.00 | Gnarfoz | xD |
| 21:02.22 | zenzelezz | my rule is pretty simple. If you ask for "... g", you get a "/say No <name>, I will not give you any gold"; if you ask for "... s" then you probably will get a few gold |
| 21:02.48 | Lunessa | In EQ, coins had weight, all coins equal in weight. Weight slowed movement. If I felt like jacking with someone, I would give them a nominal amount of money in the smallest value coin for maximal wight and immobilize them. They fell for it every time. |
| 21:03.07 | zenzelezz | heh |
| 21:03.07 | Matrix110 | i would never think about giving anyone begging gold or money(atleast in the country where iam living) |
| 21:03.18 | ZorbaTHut | my rule is that if the person can come up with a sufficiently entertaing reason, I'll give them money |
| 21:03.23 | ZorbaTHut | almost nobody ever does |
| 21:03.58 | zenzelezz | ZorbaTHut: I can't imagine them giving entertaining reasons, but almost every time someone only asks for silver, they can tell me exactly what they need it for; which is good enough for me |
| 21:04.00 | Lunessa | ZorbaTHut: I need in-game g to spend on hookers and blow. Can you help a brother out? |
| 21:04.16 | ZorbaTHut | lunessa, see, I'd give a few gold for that :) |
| 21:04.26 | ZorbaTHut | most people are just "i need it bcuz im new" |
| 21:04.31 | Lunessa | rolls a toon on Zorba's server. |
| 21:05.02 | ZorbaTHut | haha, joke's on you! in order to do that you'd have to play on my server, and no amount of gold could ever make that worthwhile |
| 21:05.08 | zenzelezz | it's amusing though how lowbies will burn your ears with their incessant "plz!!" beggings for gold, but try to give away some gold to a high-level friend and they'll sit at the trade window for 15 minutes asking if you're sure |
| 21:05.44 | Lunessa | ur goldz geif dem 2 me. |
| 21:05.45 | kamdis | lol totally |
| 21:06.06 | kamdis | You should have seen how long it took us to get our guild leader to accept the mechano-hog we made for him. |
| 21:06.23 | kamdis | literally like 25 minutes before he clicked accept |
| 21:06.35 | ZorbaTHut | didn't someone on here have a screenshot of buying a chopper off the AH for 12 gold? |
| 21:06.43 | kamdis | oh man |
| 21:06.50 | kamdis | someone was so sad about that, i'll bet |
| 21:06.54 | alestane | That sounds like a type. |
| 21:06.56 | alestane | typo. |
| 21:06.59 | kamdis | definitely |
| 21:07.03 | kamdis | poor seller :( |
| 21:07.06 | kamdis | lucky buyer |
| 21:07.12 | Lunessa | I made something for a friend, they tried to pay me. I sat there with the window open saying "I can sit here all day until you take the money out of trade. |
| 21:07.22 | kamdis | I think I would have bought it just to send back |
| 21:07.30 | zenzelezz | I remember being tricked once when I was relatively new, in my 30s or something. Had found a locked iron lockbox, and was asking for someone to unlock it. Someone told me to put it in the "Not for trade" part and he'd do it for 1g, and after the trade the box was still locked. "Sorry, must be bugged :(" he said, but he simply hadn't used the skill, and I hadn't checked \o/ |
| 21:07.35 | zenzelezz | I don't even recall if he was a rogue |
| 21:07.36 | ZorbaTHut | I take the money, and then I give it back to them when they do crafting for me |
| 21:07.45 | ZorbaTHut | I think I've shuttled the same 25g back and forth with a friend half a dozen times by now |
| 21:08.03 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.topatoco.com/graphics/qw-cheatsheet-print-zoom.jpg |
| 21:08.17 | Matrix110 | old! |
| 21:08.20 | Matrix110 | but its awesome |
| 21:08.59 | ZorbaTHut | guhhh there's a basic science mistake in the second segment |
| 21:09.06 | ZorbaTHut | that is *not how wings work* |
| 21:09.11 | Lunessa | This is pure win: http://notalwaysright.com/gadgets-morals-make-strange-bedfellows/32 |
| 21:09.56 | kamdis | hahaha |
| 21:12.36 | alestane | http://notalwaysright.com/nature-not-osha-compliant/1776 Um, WHAT? |
| 21:12.52 | Lunessa | alestane: yeah /facepalm |
| 21:15.11 | Lunessa | http://notalwaysright.com/please-do-not-titillate-the-employees/1530 |
| 21:16.01 | alestane | Lunessa: Although the ocean one, at least, has that sound of someone who might be putting the lifeguard on. |
| 21:16.39 | Lunessa | Yes, I've been known to do that sort of thing, but I pick something a little less completely stupid. |
| 21:18.41 | alestane | This, on the other hand, sounds like there's a story attached, and I probably don't want to know: http://notalwaysright.com/this-can-not-end-well-part-2/1771 |
| 21:20.44 | mikma | [00:19:26] [Raid] [Grecus]: Snusnu fails at frogger (11) |
| 21:20.49 | mikma | i love being a druid with million hp :D |
| 21:20.50 | alestane | Unclear on the definition: http://notalwaysright.com/how-about-we-get-them-to-do-an-irish-jig-for-you/1766 |
| 21:21.29 | Lunessa | I hate laggy days + frogger |
| 21:24.10 | mikma | lunessa: that was intentional btw :) |
| 21:24.20 | mikma | it was my "dude your spammer-addon sucks" protest |
| 21:24.27 | Lunessa | mikma: LOL |
| 21:24.48 | mikma | in case you wonder, in bearform the oozes do like 22k damage and i have 43k hp |
| 21:25.22 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 21:25.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 21:25.23 | Lunessa | Well, that blows for me with my 19-ish K raid-buffed health. |
| 21:29.25 | Shirik | hahaha |
| 21:29.29 | Shirik | today's xkcd is brilliant! |
| 21:29.37 | Fisker- | nope |
| 21:29.37 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: indeed. :) |
| 21:29.40 | Fisker- | naw |
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| 21:35.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Nechckn_AFK] by ChanServ |
| 21:35.32 | flugh | just read my scrollback and laughed at the EQ coin weight thing. how many baz mules stood there stuck, /t buddy halp imah stuk!lol :) |
| 21:35.59 | flugh | i never did that myself... more than once anyway |
| 21:36.43 | NightHawkTheSane | >.> people are so dumb. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/04/10/lunchtime-quickie |
| 21:43.24 | Lunessa | http://notalwaysright.com/water-you-stupid/882 |
| 21:48.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Tewan (n=Tewan@ppp-70-253-76-186.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) |
| 21:52.23 | Cairenn | (2009-04-10 17:12:38) alestane: http://notalwaysright.com/nature-not-osha-compliant/1776 Um, WHAT? <== O.O |
| 21:52.59 | alestane | Was the point of that to agree with me, or... |
| 21:53.15 | Cairenn | agree with you |
| 21:55.07 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (i=p3lim@p3lim.e15-2.tg09.gathering.org) |
| 21:59.39 | batrick | Shirik: I knew you would get a chuckle out of that comic too :) |
| 22:02.24 | Lunessa | Ok, Im out - see you guys Monday. :) |
| 22:03.04 | batrick | So I'm looking at the DK patchnotes, where is the nerf I keep hearing about. |
| 22:04.54 | foxlit | "Pestilence does no damage and has only 1 rank. |
| 22:04.55 | foxlit | " |
| 22:05.05 | foxlit | ^ That is the nerf you keep hearing about. |
| 22:07.44 | foxlit | "Viper Sting redesigned: Stings the target, draining 4% of mana over 8 seconds (up to a maximum of 8% of the caster's maximum mana)," |
| 22:08.14 | foxlit | that parenthesized clarification is dangerously close to not making any sense. |
| 22:08.30 | batrick | Ya I don't get it either |
| 22:09.24 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, it drains a percentage of the target's mana, but not more than a percentage of the caster's mana |
| 22:09.40 | ZorbaTHut | if the target has a million billion MP, and the caster has 1000, it'll drain 80 |
| 22:09.44 | foxlit | Obviously :) |
| 22:09.50 | batrick | Ah |
| 22:09.51 | ZorbaTHut | if the target has 1000, but the caster has a million billion, it'll drain 40 |
| 22:09.59 | foxlit | I'm just pointing out that it took a few read-throughs to get that |
| 22:10.08 | ZorbaTHut | but yeah it's pretty badly written :) |
| 22:10.16 | batrick | What was the original amount of MP that Viper Sting drained? |
| 22:10.25 | ZorbaTHut | "4% of the target's mana" would improve things a lot |
| 22:11.07 | foxlit | Doubt anyone will cast it for the drain |
| 22:11.27 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, wowhead says it used to be 16/32%, and now it's 4/8% with a 300% bonus to the hunter |
| 22:11.56 | batrick | good thing they nerfed that |
| 22:12.01 | ZorbaTHut | grr "entered too many instances lately" :( |
| 22:12.03 | batrick | viper sting is so rediculous |
| 22:12.39 | NeoTron | "Draining up to 4% of the target's mana, not exceeding 8% of the caster's mana, over 8 seconds" perhaps |
| 22:13.05 | NeoTron | s/r's mana/r's maximum mana/ |
| 22:17.14 | kamdis | batrick: nerf to DW, nerf to DRW, etc. |
| 22:17.37 | kamdis | however, I think DKs will be just fine and it's all "OMG CHANGE BAD" |
| 22:18.33 | NeoTron | what I don'tlike is that they are making a perfectly fine filler talent mandatory |
| 22:18.40 | NeoTron | even if I don't want the 3% hit I have to take it |
| 22:18.51 | NeoTron | because they didn't like pvpers to have to take 8 points in the tree |
| 22:18.52 | kamdis | which is that? |
| 22:19.33 | NeoTron | Virulence |
| 22:20.20 | Dagmar | Yeah, because they wouldn't want to miss out on any of those other PvP-centric talents |
| 22:21.14 | NeoTron | I think it's bullshit to make a talent "Easier" for the pvp minority, forcing the pve majority to pick it up |
| 22:21.35 | Dagmar | So you realize that there's a 3% chance to hit other players your own level, right? |
| 22:21.42 | Dagmar | s/hit/miss/; |
| 22:21.55 | NeoTron | what are you talking about? |
| 22:22.10 | NeoTron | it's a pvp talent due to the dispell resist |
| 22:22.51 | Dagmar | Oh rather obviously that makes it completely useless for PvE then |
| 22:23.02 | Dagmar | Because mobs never cleanse themselves. |
| 22:23.12 | NeoTron | right |
| 22:23.13 | NightHawkTheSane | in theory, it has some marginal pve use, as you're probably not going to be sitting on the 17% hit you need for spells. |
| 22:23.23 | NeoTron | the 3% hit is a nice filler but not necessary and not worth much at all |
| 22:23.25 | ZorbaTHut | anyone know if there's a way to get better control over a model's animation? the 3.1 minimap arrow seems to have an animation attached to it, and it loops infinitely, which it didn't used to do |
| 22:23.37 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: well, if you need to get deeper in the tree, it probably IS worth it |
| 22:23.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 22:23.41 | NeoTron | the amount of damage that comes from spells is very minimal |
| 22:23.54 | NeoTron | it's "worth" it because there's no alternative to picking it up now |
| 22:24.00 | NeoTron | it's not worth it because if has any use |
| 22:24.04 | Dagmar | So you just swing the axe? |
| 22:24.34 | NeoTron | no of course not. do you? |
| 22:24.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 22:24.50 | Dagmar | Then it's equivalent to 3% more damage from spells. |
| 22:25.09 | kmcguire | Someone just lost all their colonists. |
| 22:25.16 | NeoTron | which is a very small percentage of overall damage |
| 22:25.19 | NeoTron | thus not worth very much |
| 22:25.35 | kamdis | Why would you NOT want to be able to drop 3% spell hit from your gear? |
| 22:25.44 | Dagmar | Well, for some reason Blizz doesn't really want to let people get telents that let them do 300% more damage. |
| 22:25.45 | NeoTron | I run with ~8% hit |
| 22:25.59 | kamdis | right, but virulence isn't melee hit |
| 22:26.03 | Dagmar | Perhaps you should just stick with chasing kids off your lawn. |
| 22:26.04 | kamdis | it's just spell hit |
| 22:26.09 | NeoTron | and usuall 2 pts in virulence (as I asid, filler) so that gives me 10% + 4% from raid buffs |
| 22:26.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 22:26.21 | kamdis | which is 3 under cap |
| 22:26.25 | kamdis | 3% |
| 22:26.28 | NeoTron | which is not worth that talent point |
| 22:26.44 | kamdis | are you deep unholy? |
| 22:26.47 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* honestly, i think you're just whining about a really minor nerf. |
| 22:26.53 | Dagmar | It's pretty much the same cost everone pays for 1% more hit. |
| 22:27.03 | NeoTron | http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/detail/74238420#damageout |
| 22:27.04 | NeoTron | behold |
| 22:27.05 | kamdis | yeah of all things they are doing to DKs, that's not one that annoys me |
| 22:27.07 | NightHawkTheSane | it was either 3% spell hit or 15% DC damage, which if you really care about is only 3 more points away anyway |
| 22:27.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 22:27.43 | NeoTron | like 14% of my damage is spells |
| 22:27.47 | NightHawkTheSane | i'd be really skeptical of any claim that that one change will seriously hurt the dps of any DK |
| 22:28.20 | NeoTron | out of that 14% I had 2.5% miss on unholy blight (which was 2.9% of my damage) |
| 22:28.33 | Dagmar | So bitch to blizzard that they're ruining the game by making you take talents you don't want |
| 22:28.49 | NightHawkTheSane | they're not really making him, thoough |
| 22:28.55 | NightHawkTheSane | i mean, there's always anticipation :) |
| 22:29.03 | Dagmar | Well, it's clear he's run out of kids to chase off the lawn. |
| 22:29.18 | kamdis | Damn kids. |
| 22:29.18 | NeoTron | I'm just showing the talent is pretty useless |
| 22:29.40 | NightHawkTheSane | i never really argued that it was a high-pve-value talent. |
| 22:29.40 | Dagmar | No, it's useless for your interests. |
| 22:29.40 | NeoTron | at the very most, worse case, the talent gives me 0.42% more damage for 3 talent points |
| 22:29.45 | Dagmar | for other people, it's useful. |
| 22:29.59 | Dagmar | So? |
| 22:30.05 | NeoTron | it's not worth it for pve dps |
| 22:30.08 | Dagmar | Duh. Don't take the talent then |
| 22:30.10 | NeoTron | but you're forced to pick it up |
| 22:30.15 | Dagmar | So what? |
| 22:30.23 | Dagmar | All the talent trees are like that |
| 22:30.32 | NeoTron | no all the talent trees are not like that |
| 22:30.40 | NeoTron | it was perfectly fine before, on tier 2, as a filler |
| 22:30.41 | Dagmar | "it's not worth it for pve dps" <-- wrong. |
| 22:30.50 | NeoTron | it's not fine on tier 1 as a mandatory talent |
| 22:30.53 | Dagmar | "it's not worth it for my talent build" (corrected) |
| 22:30.57 | NeoTron | no that is perfectly correct |
| 22:31.06 | kamdis | nothing is MANDATORY |
| 22:31.15 | NeoTron | kamdis: yes it is |
| 22:31.17 | kamdis | you can put points in anticipation |
| 22:31.17 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: you're not really offering any compelling reason why other than "WAH WAH, it's slightly less optimal and I DONT LIKE IT!" |
| 22:31.20 | NeoTron | you need 5 points for tier 2 |
| 22:31.25 | kamdis | no one's forcing you |
| 22:31.28 | foxlit | Talking about virulence? |
| 22:31.30 | Dagmar | Particularly since you only have to spent 5 points in the first tier to unlock the second. |
| 22:31.35 | NeoTron | foxlit: yes |
| 22:31.37 | Dagmar | s/spent/spend/; |
| 22:31.47 | NeoTron | Dagmar: which means the talent is REQUIRED for a dps build |
| 22:31.51 | Dagmar | Maybe we can send some kids to his house so he'll be able to chase them away |
| 22:31.52 | kamdis | besides, it's a dps increase. maybe not one that's properly budgeted, but it's still an increase |
| 22:31.54 | NeoTron | since 0.42% more damage is better than 0% damage |
| 22:32.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-71-197-12-179.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:32.05 | Dagmar | How is it "REQUIRED"? |
| 22:32.14 | NeoTron | typically Blizzard tries to model talents to give 1% more damage per point. not always true but that's what they say |
| 22:32.24 | NeoTron | Dagmar: because theer are no other tier 1 talents for dps |
| 22:32.27 | NeoTron | obviously |
| 22:32.30 | NeoTron | are yiou really that dull? |
| 22:32.34 | Dagmar | You're high, aren't you |
| 22:32.38 | NightHawkTheSane | there ARE other t1 talents, thoough. |
| 22:32.40 | kamdis | Are you really that whiny? |
| 22:32.45 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: not for dps |
| 22:32.51 | NightHawkTheSane | so? |
| 22:33.14 | Dagmar | Holy crap there's talents that don't directly increase DPS |
| 22:33.17 | NightHawkTheSane | you have two choices: take virulence, or take anticipation. you can sit here and bitch like a goddamn little girl about your 3% spell hit, or you can take 3% dodge and bitch about that. |
| 22:33.27 | NeoTron | the problem is that they moved an all-around good t1 talent, not op, to tier 2 so a small pvp minority don't have to spend 5 points to pick up a pvp talent |
| 22:33.31 | NightHawkTheSane | but either way, you're really just bitching because you dont like it |
| 22:33.43 | Dagmar | If all talents were meant to only increase DPS, it would just be a freaking slider and not a tree full of options. |
| 22:34.07 | Dagmar | It's not a PvP talent. |
| 22:34.13 | NeoTron | oh but it is |
| 22:34.15 | NeoTron | that's why it was moved |
| 22:34.16 | Dagmar | No, it's not. |
| 22:34.22 | kamdis | it's not a PvP only talent |
| 22:34.31 | kamdis | there's a pvp aspect to it, yes |
| 22:34.34 | NeoTron | it was moved due to PvP and it's only good as a PvP talent |
| 22:34.39 | NeoTron | it's bad for PvE as I just showed |
| 22:34.42 | kamdis | since i can't think of many raid bosses who dispel or cure |
| 22:34.49 | kamdis | oh jesus christ |
| 22:34.52 | kamdis | it's not bad |
| 22:34.58 | Dagmar | When I'm swinging my axe trying to get some health back and it's *not happening* because the damn mobs shook off the diseases, it's not a damn PvP talent. |
| 22:35.00 | kamdis | it's just not as good as you think it should be |
| 22:35.06 | NeoTron | 0.42% damage for 3 talent points IS bad Kamdis |
| 22:35.18 | NightHawkTheSane | the thing is, 3% spell hit is just as bad for pvp as dispel resistence is bad for pve. |
| 22:35.24 | kamdis | spec frost then |
| 22:35.26 | Dagmar | NeoTron: You're the reason it's only 0.42% damage |
| 22:35.38 | kamdis | or blood |
| 22:35.55 | kamdis | I loved that talent as 32/39 |
| 22:35.59 | Dagmar | You might as well bitch that a talent which reduces a cooldown for an ability you didn't bother to learn is useless. |
| 22:36.19 | kamdis | besides, all talent trees have filler |
| 22:36.25 | kamdis | at least it ups your dps a little |
| 22:36.30 | NeoTron | Blood has even less dmg from spells |
| 22:36.52 | kamdis | I meant, spec something that doesn't require you to put points in Virulence |
| 22:36.59 | kamdis | it's not like you HAVE to by Unholy |
| 22:37.03 | kamdis | *be |
| 22:37.08 | NightHawkTheSane | blizzard is forcing him *nod* |
| 22:37.14 | NightHawkTheSane | they're actually there, with a gun to his head. :P |
| 22:37.30 | Dagmar | At least until the pills kick in |
| 22:37.36 | NeoTron | most talent specs seems to go either unholy/something or something/unholy actually |
| 22:38.19 | NeoTron | and blood dks like the change even less since they want to improve deathcoil and rely more on D&D for aoe due to having no UB/HB for extra aoe |
| 22:38.57 | kamdis | I thought the 3.1 blood spec was going to be 50 blood and UB |
| 22:39.11 | kamdis | because they nerfed DRW so badly it's worse that UB |
| 22:39.19 | kamdis | just like the gargoyle problem |
| 22:39.29 | NeoTron | I can't imagine UB is better than DRW for single target dps |
| 22:39.37 | kamdis | it actually is |
| 22:39.40 | ZorbaTHut | anyone know if SetSequence() works properly from UI mod code? it seems to be interpreting it as "reset the current sequence", I can't actually change sequences |
| 22:39.45 | NeoTron | then they really failed with DRW |
| 22:39.48 | kamdis | on an RP/GCD wasted basis |
| 22:39.50 | kamdis | yes |
| 22:39.52 | kamdis | again |
| 22:40.24 | foxlit | who is a SetSequence? :) |
| 22:40.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Syzgyn (n=ghost429@24-178-70-94.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 22:40.55 | mikma | you are! |
| 22:41.05 | NeoTron | on a sidenote I think the 3.1 unholy tank talent setup will be a lot better than the current setup |
| 22:41.16 | Dagmar | So, what was the goal with DRW then? |
| 22:42.32 | NeoTron | to be a useful and different 51 pointer well worth the point to get it |
| 22:42.54 | NeoTron | but apparently it's hard to make useful 51 point talents |
| 22:43.24 | kamdis | apparently :| |
| 22:43.40 | Dagmar | So, doubling the damage of one's weapon attacks is bad? |
| 22:44.14 | NeoTron | depending on cooldown, runic power cost and duration it certainly can be when compared to another talent |
| 22:45.06 | Dagmar | So, how does this compare to the talent that does a whopping 21 dps |
| 22:45.29 | NeoTron | and what talent would that be? |
| 22:45.44 | Dagmar | To put it another way, there has to be a goal with concrete deliverables which are not met in order to fail. |
| 22:47.04 | NeoTron | UB is about 200-300 DPS, all the time |
| 22:47.07 | NeoTron | when it's up |
| 22:47.28 | Dagmar | Really, because the tooltip is pretty clear about being only good for 21 dps per target. |
| 22:47.45 | kamdis | On the PTR that has been slashed in half for 50% auto attack damage and 32.5% strike damage. In other words DRW will hit like you do at 55 at double the cost because of the duration nerf and cooldown decrease (weighing in at a whopping 260 RP every 3min with RP mastery). |
| 22:47.57 | kamdis | that's a quote from someone else re DRW |
| 22:48.10 | NeoTron | Dagmar: and of course, UB is the only ability in the game that doesn't scale |
| 22:48.14 | kamdis | Also UB only costs 40RP and is now more rotation friendly with the new glyph which increases its duration. |
| 22:48.39 | Dagmar | Either way, this kind of bitching about the most overpowered class in the game is laughable. |
| 22:48.57 | NeoTron | DK's are definitely not the most overpowered class in the game at all |
| 22:49.04 | NeoTron | for DPS |
| 22:49.10 | kamdis | nope |
| 22:49.31 | Dagmar | Enjoy your nerfs, more will be coming soon, and don't forget that if the despair becomes too much, someone's going to have to clean your blood out of the carpet so do your cutting in the bathtub. |
| 22:50.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: you realize that a) UB has multiple ranks, and scales with your AP, right? saying UB is 21dps is like saying fireball only does it's tooltip damage.. |
| 22:50.40 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: I know. It's also just as good as declaring DRW to be "fail" |
| 22:50.47 | ZorbaTHut | anyone know another UI mod besides QH that uses a Rotating-MinimapArrow.mdx model? I'm getting some weird behavior on 3.1 and I can't figure out if it's something I'm doing wrong |
| 22:51.11 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: TomTom, Carbonite |
| 22:51.16 | NeoTron | Dagmar: except kamdis actually has information to back it up while you just make shit up |
| 22:51.49 | Dagmar | NeoTron: I didn't notice you providing any hard figures, or even quoting someone else's haphazardly researched forum post |
| 22:52.06 | NeoTron | I don't know what the average DPS is of DRW but if it's less than ~280 it's clearly worse than UB in a single target fight |
| 22:52.21 | NeoTron | actually can be even less than that since it uses a lot more runic power that could be used for death coils |
| 22:52.23 | ZorbaTHut | ah, tomtom has its own little arrow sprite |
| 22:52.44 | kamdis | I haven't tested it myself, so I'm only relying on the posts I've seen that appear to be intelligent and numbers based. |
| 22:52.47 | kamdis | I could be wrong |
| 22:52.51 | NeoTron | I didn't say how effective DRW was. I said how much DPS it would have to do to be better than UB for a single target fight |
| 22:53.07 | Dagmar | OH holy crap all 51st point talents aren't equal? |
| 22:53.10 | Dagmar | I never knew. |
| 22:53.10 | NeoTron | which I'd guess is around 300-320 DPS or so |
| 22:53.18 | NeoTron | UB is a 21 point talent in 3.1 |
| 22:53.19 | NeoTron | try again |
| 22:53.23 | kamdis | UB will be a 21 pointer |
| 22:53.44 | NeoTron | the whole point for the discussion was that in 3.1 50/0/21 is better than 51/0/20 |
| 22:53.45 | kamdis | the fact that people are [again] even debating which to take when they are 50 points deep in Blood is a problem |
| 22:54.14 | Dagmar | Oh my god you mean talents that are in different places in the trees might be more or less effective than others in different circumstances? |
| 22:54.17 | Dagmar | is aghast |
| 22:54.43 | foxlit | " are [again] even debating which to take" << meh, debating implies a good thing. |
| 22:54.43 | kamdis | you can't seriously think it's not an issue that a 21 point talent in one tree is better than a 51 point talent in another tree. |
| 22:54.45 | NeoTron | a 51 point talent should be better than a 21 point talent. there's no ifs, buts, whens, involed in that logic |
| 22:54.48 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, honestly, I feel like any 51-point talent that isn't worth taking is a mistake |
| 22:54.56 | foxlit | If they were like "No, you fools, you can only take X", the design would be silly. |
| 22:54.58 | ZorbaTHut | the 51-point is meant to be the prize for sticking through the tree for 50 points :P |
| 22:55.15 | ZorbaTHut | (as shown by its value in almost all trees, with a few notable exceptions) |
| 22:55.15 | kamdis | foxlit: point taken, if it's for flavor or something |
| 22:55.29 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Except that would mean you're being slightly shafted by all the lower tiers |
| 22:55.36 | kamdis | bah, they fixed it once, they'll fix it again |
| 22:55.49 | kamdis | i'm just glad to not be DW anymore |
| 22:55.50 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, if the alternatives were "take a bunch of 51-point talents", then yes |
| 22:56.11 | ZorbaTHut | but in the case of most trees, the talents just get better as you move up, with the 51-point, 41-point, and 31-point talents being really useful abilities |
| 22:56.13 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: I disagree with that particular statement, I've no problem with situational talents... but in the case of DRW vs UB, its a pretty easy straight up comparison |
| 22:56.18 | Dagmar | I was under the impression that the 51st point talent was supposed to be a _signature_ talent for the tree. |
| 22:56.27 | Dagmar | Not necessarily merely MOAR DPESS |
| 22:56.30 | NightHawkTheSane | (er, that every 51 point talent should always be worth it if you're 50 in already) |
| 22:56.49 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, yeah, but let's be honest, most people who debate talent trees want talents that make themselves more useful in combat |
| 22:57.07 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, I think *in general* they should be - as in, the general-case situation should be the one where you take it |
| 22:57.17 | ZorbaTHut | yes, there can be special cases where it's not useful :) |
| 22:57.24 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Most of the people who debate these things on the forums also probably have an addiction to internet porn and a functional 6th grade level of literacy |
| 22:57.26 | Dagmar | Your point being? |
| 22:57.40 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, my point being that talent trees aren't built for roleplayers |
| 22:57.44 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: yeah, its a good general case thing to say,but i wouldn't say its out of line to make a 51 point (or whatever top-point) talent be situational |
| 22:57.45 | ZorbaTHut | they're built for ingame effectiveness |
| 22:57.47 | NeoTron | Dagmar: then you fit right in there |
| 22:58.01 | Dagmar | NeoTron: Better check your lawn for kids. |
| 22:58.22 | ZorbaTHut | you wouldn't want the top-level rogue combat talent to be "makes a bunch of flowers appear, now you are a pretty pretty princess", because it has nothing to do with the rest of tree, which is largely about stabbing things in inventive ways |
| 22:58.23 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Since when does "signature" mean RP? |
| 22:58.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: you really can't argue that a 51 point talent that does nothing but add dps has some kind of intrinsic "flavor" value that should keep its dps low? |
| 22:58.45 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, if the "signature" talent isn't useful enough to bother with, it's not very signature, is it? The only possible way it's "signature" at that point is if it provides flavor |
| 22:58.57 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: The exotic pet point doesn't necessarily increase DPS more than any other, but it lets a _beastmaster_ do more mastering of beasts as it were |
| 22:59.01 | ZorbaTHut | and the instant you say "flavor", you're talking about plot and roleplaying, not actual usefulness :P |
| 22:59.16 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:59.23 | NeoTron | Dagmar: actually the exotic pet talent increases DPS and they admitted it wasn't very good when it didn't so they fixed it |
| 22:59.24 | Dagmar | There is more to these games than pure DPS. |
| 22:59.24 | ZorbaTHut | the exotic pet point gives you four more pet talent points. I suspect that's a significant boost in damage. :) |
| 22:59.54 | Dagmar | Gettting into the mindset that straight DPS is the only thing that matters is how you get the tank+healer+cheerleaders bullshit combat from EverQuest. |
| 22:59.55 | ZorbaTHut | yes, there is, there's all sorts of other utility factors. but the new DRW fails on all of those points. The only thing it's good for is looking pretty. |
| 23:00.08 | ZorbaTHut | I agree that there's a place for roleplaying and for plot and flavor |
| 23:00.19 | ZorbaTHut | but that place isn't talent trees. talent trees are supposed to make you more effective. |
| 23:00.26 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: You'd be wrong about that, and it's no more powerful than the tops of the other two trees |
| 23:00.41 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: It's also, relevant to the point, not a direct DPS increase |
| 23:00.51 | ZorbaTHut | which are you talking about, exotic pets or DRW? :P |
| 23:00.56 | Dagmar | Exotic pets |
| 23:01.04 | ZorbaTHut | it's an indirect DPS increase. I don't care how direct it is :P |
| 23:01.34 | ZorbaTHut | and it'd be kind of silly if each 51-point talent was required to be more powerful than the other two 51-point talents, wouldn't it be? I never said that was required in the least |
| 23:01.36 | NeoTron | the exotic pets themselves were (re)designed to do a bit more dps by themselves and they added more high tier hunter pet "talents" that increases damage for the BM hunters |
| 23:01.36 | Dagmar | Talent trees are not supposed to make you "more effective". |
| 23:01.48 | Dagmar | Talent trees are supposed to provide for _variations_ in playstyle |
| 23:02.00 | ZorbaTHut | yes, well, they fail pretty miserably in that situation, don't they? :) |
| 23:02.01 | NeoTron | they are obviously meant to make you more effective |
| 23:02.05 | ZorbaTHut | tries to tank in Fury |
| 23:02.10 | Dagmar | ...so that there's *more* than just ten types of toons out there. |
| 23:02.28 | ZorbaTHut | perhaps originally, and perhaps in intent, but overall people are going to find the "best" talent specs and use them |
| 23:02.41 | Dagmar | So how does that shadow tree make priests better at healing exactly? |
| 23:02.44 | ZorbaTHut | and blizzard has, with a few exceptions, not really gotten the hang of providing variations instead of minmaxing opportunities |
| 23:03.00 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: So what. Little kids put rocks into their mouths unless you stop them |
| 23:03.00 | ZorbaTHut | it . . . doesn't? it's a DPS tree, it makes the priest better at DPS? |
| 23:03.17 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Okay, so then why do non-shadow priests suck at DPS so much then? |
| 23:03.22 | NightHawkTheSane | (one could argue that VE provides an improvement in healing over base abilities) |
| 23:03.27 | ZorbaTHut | because they're not better at DPS? :P |
| 23:03.29 | Dagmar | Talent trees are to provide _class variations_, man. |
| 23:03.51 | omgholydc | howdy howdy |
| 23:03.52 | ZorbaTHut | class variations, alright, you just said "variations" |
| 23:04.09 | Dagmar | I said it several lines back |
| 23:04.11 | ZorbaTHut | yes, which tree you pick changes your behavior quite a bit. But some specs are just better than others |
| 23:04.16 | omgholydc | So what language are people using to make addons these days? |
| 23:04.35 | Dagmar | omgholydc: Lua. Only lua. Always only lua. |
| 23:05.10 | omgholydc | roger, I only know php, haven't tried any other languages. think someone who knows php could pick up on lua, or does it take awhile to learn? |
| 23:05.33 | Dagmar | omgholydc: If you code in PHP and aren't walking into walls much anymore, you can probably figure out lua |
| 23:05.49 | omgholydc | gotchya |
| 23:05.53 | Dagmar | At least it's not .NET |
| 23:06.06 | foxlit | $youwillhatethedollarprefixafterwards |
| 23:06.34 | omgholydc | I love php, and have been wanting to do something other than web programming, so a wow addon might be a nice transition for me to have fun with |
| 23:07.21 | Dagmar | foxlit: Nah, $ has been working for what... 20 years now? |
| 23:07.26 | Dagmar | No sense in stopping now. ;) |
| 23:09.13 | kmcguire | sprock gamma was destroyed, whahaha.. |
| 23:09.18 | mikma | so, 3.1 |
| 23:09.22 | mikma | when will it come? |
| 23:09.33 | Tuller | what's what she said? |
| 23:09.35 | foxlit | approximately at the same time as 2.6! |
| 23:09.45 | zenzelezz | someone should hack in an April Fools in PHP that made the $ localized on first april... so you'd use £ or ⬠or something |
| 23:09.48 | kamdis | tuller: lol |
| 23:13.22 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 23:15.49 | zenzelezz | I remember reading about how some DOS output command used the dollar sign as the "end of string" character, making the function useless for business applications |
| 23:19.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (i=vschiu@adsl-99-190-99-4.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:21.59 | cbreak | escape chars? |
| 23:22.11 | cbreak | or just use ⬠:) |
| 23:24.01 | zenzelezz | ⬠wasn't around back then, and there was no escape character |
| 23:24.10 | zenzelezz | but there was a different function |
| 23:27.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (n=Jamash@75-25-130-215.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:30.48 | Adys | Maldivia: ping? |
| 23:30.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@155.31.170.189) |
| 23:30.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 23:36.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nchatzil@d64-180-70-86.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 23:37.07 | Dagmar | zenzelezz: Whatever you were reading "back then" was less than useless |
| 23:37.26 | Dagmar | ^[ <-- The original ESD. ;) |
| 23:37.33 | Dagmar | s/ESD/ESC/; |
| 23:37.48 | zenzelezz | I wasn't reading it back then; I was reading it a couple of years ago in a book about the assembly language |
| 23:38.04 | Dagmar | ...and the DOS thing you reference is some reporter's idea of "creative licence" I think |
| 23:39.15 | zenzelezz | how is that? |
| 23:39.59 | zenzelezz | it might not even have been DOS, just low-level system function of some sort, my memory's not accurate |
| 23:40.18 | zenzelezz | Google seems to suggest it was talking about the use of int 21h |
| 23:40.45 | Dagmar | What did you search? |
| 23:41.17 | zenzelezz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS_API |
| 23:41.32 | zenzelezz | Googled something like "dos output dollar character" |
| 23:42.27 | Dagmar | Well, to put it more bluntly than I did a minute ago, either you've misremembered it by miles, or the reporter was making s**t up. |
| 23:42.57 | Dagmar | It could easily be the latter. |
| 23:43.14 | zenzelezz | the former is more likely, but you're being unclear about what part exactly of what I said you're aiming at |
| 23:43.31 | Dagmar | That a dollar sign in any way could confuse an output routine |
| 23:44.28 | zenzelezz | well, "AH=9h DS:DX=pointer to '$' terminated string" is the one he was talking about. His exact comments about it, I can't recall |
| 23:45.02 | zenzelezz | I'm not going to argue over it, as I can neither remember nor look up the chapter at the moment |
| 23:45.22 | Dagmar | Advantage: Actually having been a coder then |
| 23:46.22 | zenzelezz | so had he, but I have no idea whether he was any good :-p I'm just saying what I vaguely remember reading |
| 23:46.25 | Dagmar | DOS used null-terminated strings at that level. |
| 23:46.44 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 23:49.01 | Dagmar | Just to clarify, I'm not arguing. I'm telling you flat out that the reporter was dead wrong. |
| 23:49.41 | Gnarfoz | I always have to laugh when I see people period-terminating their sentences JUST when they're trying to emphasize that they're right |
| 23:49.44 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 23:50.28 | Dagmar | Lemme see if there's something in even older versions |
| 23:52.14 | Pytlask | Gnarfoz: It's even better when people null-terminate their sentences to emphasize that they're right. (Ba-dump-chh) |
| 23:52.27 | Gnarfoz | Pytlask: www.instantrimshot.com |
| 23:52.53 | zenzelezz | Dagmar: "DOS service 09H has a slightly odd requirement: That the end of the string be marked with a dollar sign ($). This is the reason for the dollar sign hung incongruously on the end of EAT.ASM's advertising slogan string. Given that DOS does not ask us to pass it a value indicating how long the string is, the end of the string has to be marked somehow, and the dollar sign is DOS's chosen way. It's a lousy way, unfortunately, beca |
| 23:52.53 | zenzelezz | use with the dollar sign acting as a marker, there is no way to display a dollar sign. If you intend to talk about money on the PC's screen, don't use DOS service 9! As I said, this is the easiest, but certainly not the best way to display text on the screen." |
| 23:53.23 | zenzelezz | paragraph from page 261-262 of "Assembly language: Step by step, second edition", by Jeff Duntemann |
| 23:53.38 | zenzelezz | he may be wrong, but that's where I got my info from |
| 23:54.22 | Pytlask | does the Friday dance |
| 23:54.32 | Dagmar | I'm seeing that now |
| 23:55.11 | zenzelezz | I'll be the first to admit I was never a DOS coder, and I know little about assembly |
| 23:55.35 | zenzelezz | and it's not unfrequent that I'm dead wrong about things :) |
| 23:55.53 | Dagmar | So we're in agreement that the person who wrote that had been maybe dropped as a child |
| 23:56.06 | zenzelezz | for all I know, yes |
| 23:56.20 | Dagmar | 9,2 does one char at a time |
| 23:56.21 | zenzelezz | just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's always right |
| 23:56.37 | Dagmar | s/9/21/; |
| 23:56.42 | Dagmar | need moar caffiene |
| 23:57.12 | Dagmar | This is what I get for learning about DOS ASM by reading virus code |
| 23:57.32 | Dagmar | ...although I think if I'd actually known about 21,9 I would have just refused to use it |
| 23:57.46 | zenzelezz | well, the wikipedia I linked you seems to say 9 does a string, while 2 does character... but this was for MS-DOS, I'm not sure if other DOSes do it differently |
| 23:59.31 | Dagmar | Then again, a lot of the core routines in OSes then now resemble a bunhc of special students turned loose in a gun range with no supervision |
| 23:59.51 | zenzelezz | hehehe |
| 23:59.59 | Dagmar | Null termination wasn't perfect, but it at least wouldn't screw with your ability to print paychecks |
