| 00:03.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (n=TC@cpe-76-169-229-41.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:04.48 | mikma | gnarfoz: wut |
| 00:05.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-48-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:05.51 | Gnarfoz | mikma: dunno if LDB allows for that really, but do you see a chance to optionally not display the "Wintergrasp: " text for WintergraspTimer? |
| 00:06.00 | Gnarfoz | icon+time would be nice, the hideous 11 letter "Wintergrasp: " text is just so redundant :p |
| 00:06.26 | Wobin | ldb font tends to be too big all the time =( |
| 00:06.32 | mikma | i'm not sure did LDB have prefix/suffix feature at all |
| 00:06.44 | mikma | but i could whack the text off and move it to tooltip |
| 00:06.54 | Gnarfoz | Wobin: huh? font is the displayer's thing, right? :p |
| 00:07.12 | Gnarfoz | mikma: yeah, I'm not sure about the prefix/suffix part, either, guess that's what I'm asking ^^ |
| 00:09.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-48-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:09.53 | mikma | gnarfoz: i'll try one thing. moment. |
| 00:09.58 | Wobin | someone ping my nick? |
| 00:10.04 | Gnarfoz | Wobin: wobin! |
| 00:10.07 | mikma | my nick: ping |
| 00:10.07 | Wobin | ta |
| 00:10.17 | Wobin | Gnarfoz/#wowuidev> Wobin: wobin! |
| 00:10.26 | Gnarfoz | neat |
| 00:10.27 | Wobin | much better |
| 00:10.34 | Wobin | separate tab and all |
| 00:11.38 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-158-48-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:12.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-48-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 00:13.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-48-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:21.49 | nobin | Wobin: this can only be one |
| 00:21.56 | nobin | ther |
| 00:22.11 | nobin | and the network says it's me |
| 00:22.15 | Cheatcakes | hey what's a good mod for reshaping/repositioning the minimap? |
| 00:22.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Aiiane (n=Aiiane@c-71-207-133-87.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 00:22.44 | Wobin | go back to your delusions |
| 00:23.06 | Wobin | And if you looked a little closer... |
| 00:23.13 | Wobin | your name is not actually the same as mine |
| 00:23.24 | nobin | it's better |
| 00:23.46 | Wobin | You can't even use capitals, I don't think it even counts as a name. |
| 00:24.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Cheatcakes (n=sfad@67-43-245-131-cablemodem-roll.fidnet.com) |
| 00:24.27 | Wobin | Cheatcakes: Sexymap |
| 00:24.37 | squidbear | can you get the unit health of targettarget? |
| 00:24.38 | Industrial | is that like the sexyleg? |
| 00:24.52 | Wobin | Industrial: you're not using SexyMap? |
| 00:24.56 | Industrial | UnitHealth('targettarget') |
| 00:24.56 | Wobin | for shame! |
| 00:25.01 | Industrial | Wobin: idMinimap kthx |
| 00:25.11 | Wobin | it's not as sexy as sexymap |
| 00:25.11 | Industrial | :3 |
| 00:25.29 | Wobin | brb |
| 00:25.30 | squidbear | lol I wonder what I'm doing wrong...the targettarget health is showing up as just the targets health >_< |
| 00:25.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-48-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:26.06 | Wobin | hm, no noticable changes |
| 00:26.14 | Industrial | sure the unit you are feeding the function is 'targettarget'? also UnitExists('targettarget') == true ? |
| 00:26.24 | Cheatcakes | thanks Wobin |
| 00:27.05 | squidbear | yes |
| 00:27.17 | squidbear | does this look accurate? |
| 00:27.17 | squidbear | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.40 | squidbear | and above that I have if (UnitExists("targettarget")) then |
| 00:27.41 | foxlit | function FormatValue() return "42"; end |
| 00:27.41 | squidbear | :\ |
| 00:27.49 | Industrial | lol foxlit |
| 00:27.51 | squidbear | :P |
| 00:28.05 | Industrial | squidbear: should work fine then >_O |
| 00:28.14 | Industrial | try targeting something other then yourself! *badoom tisch* |
| 00:28.17 | Industrial | <-- bed |
| 00:28.24 | squidbear | ... |
| 00:28.33 | squidbear | :P |
| 00:31.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-48-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:31.40 | foxlit | Hm, where's that AQ40 island in Tanaris? |
| 00:32.04 | squidbear | how do you have an optional praramater for a func in lua? |
| 00:32.14 | foxlit | All parameters are optional in Lua |
| 00:32.28 | foxlit | The functions do reserve the right to... not work... if you don't pass them what they require, however. |
| 00:32.42 | squidbear | lol... |
| 00:32.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-48-236.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:32.56 | squidbear | can I do like function(value=10) |
| 00:32.57 | squidbear | ? |
| 00:33.22 | foxlit | value=10 is a statement rather than an expression, so no, you can't. |
| 00:33.44 | squidbear | aw...I'm so used to php :P |
| 00:34.51 | foxlit | or did you mean something akin to |
| 00:34.59 | foxlit | function foo ($a = "blah") { ... } ? |
| 00:35.22 | squidbear | precisely |
| 00:35.34 | foxlit | can't do defaults, either. |
| 00:35.42 | Aiiane | you can check for nil arguments, though |
| 00:35.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 00:35.46 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 00:35.46 | Aiiane | and give them a value in your code |
| 00:35.48 | Aiiane | i.e. |
| 00:35.53 | Aiiane | function test(foo) |
| 00:35.59 | squidbear | What about function foo (value or 10) |
| 00:36.01 | Aiiane | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.08 | Aiiane | nope, squidbear |
| 00:36.13 | Aiiane | but you can do what I just demonstrated |
| 00:36.13 | squidbear | dang, alright |
| 00:36.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=skullsho@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 00:36.21 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 00:36.39 | Aiiane | or instead of the if statement, you can do |
| 00:36.43 | Aiiane | foo = foo or blah |
| 00:37.05 | Aiiane | (though that will replace 'false' as well, which may or may not be desired) |
| 00:38.09 | Aiiane | which gives you essentially the same power as regular optional arguments |
| 00:38.26 | Aiiane | (not counting named arguments, but that's a whole different ball game) |
| 00:44.50 | mikma | gnarfoz: your wish has been granted. tek showed me the way and i added cool tooltip in :P |
| 00:54.53 | smcn | is there a reason i wouldn't be able to set people as main assist/tank on the blizzard UI? like, the options aren't even there and i'm raid leader |
| 01:03.26 | Gnarfoz | mikma: hooray :] |
| 01:03.30 | Gnarfoz | smcn: taint. :p |
| 01:03.39 | Gnarfoz | smcn: tried /mt /ma ? |
| 01:04.08 | smcn | hm didn't know i could do that, and i don't think it's taint because i've had taint on the window before but in that case the menu items still appeared |
| 01:04.19 | mikma | gnarfoz: waiting for approval :) updated the images also to show the current state |
| 01:06.44 | squidbear | Something in battlegrounds causes my unitframes not to come up. I can't tell if it's combat, people from different battlegroups, or what...but outside of bgs it seems to work fine (though I haven't done a raid or anything) |
| 01:09.10 | squidbear | does anyone know what the cause is and what solutions there are? |
| 01:10.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Hey-WTF (n=burp@222-152-99-211.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 01:11.04 | squidbear | Maybe mounted? |
| 01:11.08 | squidbear | I really can't tell. |
| 01:17.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-69-181-37-145.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:18.34 | squidbear | Minions and pets seem to show up fine |
| 01:18.37 | squidbear | but not people |
| 01:18.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=Torhal@74-130-66-145.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 01:21.31 | mikma | you fot nerfed |
| 01:21.37 | mikma | got* |
| 01:23.57 | Dewin | squidbear: All of your unitframes or just some? |
| 01:25.52 | *** join/#wowuidev squidbear (n=squidbea@cpe-66-67-132-12.rochester.res.rr.com) |
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| 01:46.49 | mikma | now what the hell is this |
| 01:46.56 | mikma | why is my timer going offtime all the time |
| 01:47.41 | sylvanaar | what timer |
| 01:47.50 | mikma | my Wintergrasp Timer |
| 01:48.03 | mikma | for some reason it goes faster than it should |
| 01:48.04 | sylvanaar | what are you using to implement it |
| 01:48.09 | mikma | onupdate |
| 01:48.25 | mikma | http://svn.wowinterface.com/filedetails.php?repname=mikma&path=%2FWintergraspTimer%2FWintergraspTimer.lua |
| 01:48.36 | mikma | if elapsed < updateperiod then return end |
| 01:48.44 | mikma | and updateperiod = 1 |
| 01:49.00 | mikma | now i wonder is that the problem |
| 01:49.15 | mikma | shouldn't it be elapsed =< updateperiod |
| 01:49.20 | sylvanaar | i think those guys in wintergrasp are on like "island time", "dont worry mon, we be startin in a minute" |
| 01:49.54 | sylvanaar | hrm |
| 01:50.04 | mikma | http://wowinterface.com/downloads/info11940-WintergraspTimer.html#comments |
| 01:50.11 | mikma | comment number 3 from up |
| 01:56.40 | Cidan | woot |
| 01:56.46 | Cidan | found a bug that lets you fly in Dalaran |
| 01:56.49 | sylvanaar | nothing jumps out other than using elapsed times, and accumulating them vs. checking every so often by calling time() |
| 01:56.51 | Cidan | time to tell a GM |
| 01:58.00 | mikma | sylvanaar: everyone else is using "if elapsed <= updateperiod then" |
| 01:58.27 | sylvanaar | for long times or short |
| 01:58.28 | mikma | i think my code waits until it's over 1 (1.05 for example), and doesn't accept 1 |
| 01:58.35 | mikma | long times are way off |
| 01:58.39 | mikma | 2 minutes or so |
| 01:59.03 | mikma | 2.50h runs in 2.48h or so |
| 01:59.07 | mikma | errrr |
| 01:59.17 | mikma | 2h50min runs in 2h48min |
| 01:59.24 | *** join/#wowuidev GShock (n=chatzill@58.240.248.243) |
| 01:59.26 | mikma | so it must be that one :P |
| 02:00.05 | Wobin | mikma: |
| 02:00.06 | sylvanaar | ah |
| 02:00.12 | Wobin | have it not update if your the one doing the broadcast |
| 02:00.19 | Wobin | ugh |
| 02:00.20 | Wobin | you're |
| 02:00.23 | sylvanaar | local function onUpdate(self, elapsed) |
| 02:00.23 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:00.23 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:00.23 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:00.28 | sylvanaar | thats mine |
| 02:00.41 | mikma | there! it has <=, not < like i had |
| 02:01.55 | mikma | wobin: think that could also mix the timer up? |
| 02:03.06 | Wobin | maybe |
| 02:03.14 | sylvanaar | or you could just take a long time to do the stuff in your pcall |
| 02:03.14 | Wobin | but you do have if WGT==0 in there so maybe not |
| 02:04.10 | mikma | i have a strong feeling it was actually the < missing = ( <= ) |
| 02:04.19 | mikma | every second went some over |
| 02:04.39 | mikma | no wait, that should mean every second should be shorter.. what the |
| 02:05.58 | mikma | well, i'll have a look how this 15min -> 5min time goes |
| 02:06.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Sam-L (n=Sam@cpe-173-88-181-127.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 02:08.32 | sylvanaar | elapsed < updateperiod |
| 02:08.51 | sylvanaar | wont do timer=timer-1 every time |
| 02:11.09 | mikma | now i wonder why do i have "elapsed = elapsed + elap" |
| 02:11.18 | sylvanaar | also, you subtract 1 |
| 02:11.23 | sylvanaar | not the real time |
| 02:12.17 | Cidan | Hm |
| 02:12.24 | Cidan | Should I just put in a GM ticket on this bug? |
| 02:12.48 | ZorbaTHut | cidan, go for it. it's not really a major exploit issue |
| 02:12.52 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, oh no, you can fly in dalaran |
| 02:13.07 | sylvanaar | it looks like you will accumulate rounding errors |
| 02:13.12 | ZorbaTHut | I fly in dalaran all the time! (for about 10 seconds) |
| 02:13.24 | mikma | err |
| 02:13.33 | mikma | in 10 minutes the timer was 10 seconds off |
| 02:13.41 | mikma | should have been 5m 0s but it was 4m 50s |
| 02:13.52 | sylvanaar | yeah |
| 02:14.12 | sylvanaar | its because you are taking any value >1 and calling it 1 |
| 02:14.31 | mikma | this is with <= |
| 02:15.05 | sylvanaar | you need to stop timer=timer-1 |
| 02:15.17 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 02:15.53 | mikma | well, now i don't have any idea how to do this properly |
| 02:15.57 | sylvanaar | that 1 is arbitrary, the time is really 1.1s say, you will just toss the .1 |
| 02:16.27 | Cidan | also |
| 02:16.36 | sylvanaar | timer = timer - elapsed |
| 02:16.41 | Cidan | everyone, if you use Steam, they are having a huge sale right now on Steam |
| 02:16.51 | Cidan | ie: Bioshock is 5 dollars |
| 02:17.10 | Cidan | every Unreal game in a single package is like, 20 bucks |
| 02:17.23 | Cidan | etc. |
| 02:17.36 | GShock | Anyone knows why PlayerFrameHealthBarText:SetFont(...) doesn't work? |
| 02:17.50 | GShock | I wanted the change the font of my headlthbar text. |
| 02:18.05 | Cidan | Well first, what do you mean by doesn't work? |
| 02:18.09 | Cidan | What does it say? |
| 02:18.11 | sylvanaar | :SetFontObject? |
| 02:18.30 | Cidan | ^ that. |
| 02:18.58 | Cidan | What class? |
| 02:19.08 | bnovc | i'm a druid |
| 02:19.14 | bnovc | and i can't BG anymore because i just die instantly |
| 02:19.16 | Cidan | Bahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha |
| 02:19.19 | Cidan | no. |
| 02:19.26 | sylvanaar | i am a druid too |
| 02:19.27 | GShock | Means don't have any effect. |
| 02:19.39 | Cidan | I think the class that is suffering the most right now is huntards |
| 02:20.01 | sylvanaar | "food fight!" |
| 02:20.03 | bnovc | i just die i HOJ |
| 02:20.04 | bnovc | *in |
| 02:20.07 | bnovc | nothing i can do |
| 02:20.17 | GShock | sylvanaar: Thanks, I'll try SetFontObject. |
| 02:20.26 | Sam-L | Anybody know an easier to use alternative (eg not using ACE Library) to StatLogic. I'm trying to get the sum of stats on an item. |
| 02:20.43 | Cidan | Sam-L: I... do not. |
| 02:21.02 | Sam-L | Sweet |
| 02:21.13 | mikma | sylvanaar: well, care to help me for a moment? i kinda need a good (working) timer that counts down the time i have every second :I |
| 02:21.37 | Sam-L | Its the thought that counts right Cidan :) |
| 02:22.18 | sylvanaar | did you try that change? |
| 02:22.43 | mikma | sylvanaar: no because you lost me there. i'm not good with onupdate's |
| 02:23.01 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.01 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.01 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.20 | sylvanaar | change to timer-elapsed |
| 02:24.09 | mikma | elapsed = timer - elapsed ? |
| 02:24.24 | sylvanaar | timer = timer - elapsed |
| 02:24.50 | mikma | is elapsed the second argument of OnUpdate function? :P |
| 02:25.02 | mikma | function(self,elapsed) |
| 02:25.04 | sylvanaar | just change the one line |
| 02:25.34 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:25.48 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:25.50 | sylvanaar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:26.19 | mikma | i was thinking |
| 02:26.21 | sylvanaar | you were throwing away partial seconds every pass through that loop |
| 02:26.32 | mikma | can i shrink that function like, alot |
| 02:26.43 | sylvanaar | just try the one change |
| 02:28.02 | mikma | shadowed has pretty interesting onupdate in Afflicted |
| 02:28.20 | sylvanaar | Shadowed is always interesting |
| 02:28.24 | bnovc | i guess if i went feral i could keep playing the game but moonkin and resto are useless |
| 02:28.43 | sylvanaar | get a paladin partner |
| 02:28.54 | Shadowed | mmm whats Afflicted do? |
| 02:29.05 | bnovc | there'd be no reason for a paladin to play with a druid |
| 02:29.09 | bnovc | paladins are the best class in the game |
| 02:29.14 | sylvanaar | ok |
| 02:29.25 | sylvanaar | --> druid forums |
| 02:29.25 | batbot | sylvanaar: @ [string "druid forums"]:1: '=' expected near 'forums' |
| 02:29.28 | mikma | shadowed: self.secondsLeft = self.secondsLeft - (time - self.lastUpdate) |
| 02:29.37 | mikma | shadowed: self.lastUpdate = time |
| 02:29.40 | Shadowed | don't remember why I did that |
| 02:29.54 | sylvanaar | lag |
| 02:29.57 | Shadowed | oh right that |
| 02:30.09 | Shadowed | and if the frame is changed visually, OnUpdate is called again or something |
| 02:32.23 | sylvanaar | did you try it mikma |
| 02:32.31 | mikma | sylvanaar: yeah. i had to floor the seconds :D |
| 02:32.39 | mikma | 16min 12.25325364574784s |
| 02:32.48 | sylvanaar | yeah |
| 02:33.00 | mikma | i wonder how can i tell did it help |
| 02:33.19 | sylvanaar | the presence of the .213213213213 |
| 02:33.28 | sylvanaar | thats a good sign |
| 02:33.42 | mikma | yeah |
| 02:33.55 | mikma | it was always something like second.952356226 |
| 02:33.58 | mikma | second.9234524626 |
| 02:34.04 | mikma | second.9724235253 |
| 02:34.06 | mikma | etc :) |
| 02:34.29 | mikma | oh lol |
| 02:34.39 | sylvanaar | right each time you accumulated error of 1-.934234324 |
| 02:34.49 | mikma | we have a countdown in wow, builtin |
| 02:34.58 | mikma | i'ma gonna put 15 minutes on both |
| 02:36.55 | sylvanaar | have you seen the mod failbot? |
| 02:38.10 | sylvanaar | its really fun - and im making a 3rd fork of it and yet another implementation. Did i mention its very hard to test |
| 02:38.31 | mikma | link up? |
| 02:40.08 | Gnarfoz | failboat, all aboard! :> |
| 02:43.05 | mikma | still, i think shadowed's solution is imba |
| 02:43.22 | mikma | it should forgive all the lag and other choppy stuff and correct the time to the real position |
| 02:43.28 | sylvanaar | its called failboat |
| 02:43.29 | GShock | :SetFontObject can only change to a builtin font? like GameFontGreen? Can I use my own font instead? |
| 02:43.31 | sylvanaar | lol |
| 02:43.34 | Torhal | Yo |
| 02:43.44 | Torhal | How can I get an itemID from an itemLink? |
| 02:43.58 | mikma | sylvanaar: yo dawg in bot failin' you boat |
| 02:43.59 | Torhal | I'm failing to find a relevant API function |
| 02:44.17 | sylvanaar | http://www.wowace.com/projects/failboat/ |
| 02:44.40 | sylvanaar | Torhal string.match imo |
| 02:44.52 | Torhal | I want to pass an item to HandleModifiedItemClick(link), but "link" in that context is an item link, not an ID. |
| 02:45.20 | Torhal | Rather: I'm hooking HandleModifiedItemClick(link), and want to convert link to an ID |
| 02:45.30 | sylvanaar | can you pass anything to that function? |
| 02:45.38 | Torhal | Just a link. |
| 02:45.46 | sylvanaar | i mean, can you change it |
| 02:46.01 | mikma | sylvanaar: http://wow.reaktio.net/test/WoWScrnShot_122708_044301.jpg |
| 02:46.05 | mikma | let's see what happens :D |
| 02:46.05 | Torhal | Change it how? |
| 02:46.29 | sylvanaar | lets start over |
| 02:46.45 | Torhal | Basically, what I want to do is: Change [Soft White Fur] to 26374 |
| 02:46.57 | sylvanaar | k |
| 02:47.31 | sylvanaar | now you say "but...' |
| 02:48.10 | Torhal | But I can't find a function which does this. |
| 02:48.45 | sylvanaar | what part of the game api are you working with? |
| 02:49.16 | sylvanaar | what are you trying to do besides what you mentioned |
| 02:49.22 | Torhal | If someone ALT-clicks on an item, it gets passed to HandleModifiedItemClick() with the item's name. |
| 02:49.44 | Torhal | I want to use LibPeriodicTable, which requires the item's ID. |
| 02:49.50 | sylvanaar | ok |
| 02:50.15 | sylvanaar | so far sounds good |
| 02:50.51 | sylvanaar | you have the link and the ID |
| 02:51.00 | Torhal | Nom-, just the link |
| 02:51.17 | sylvanaar | = /dump "link" |
| 02:51.18 | Torhal | s/Nom-,/No,/ |
| 02:51.48 | Torhal | Ok, leme test that. |
| 02:52.02 | sylvanaar | item links are item:itemid |
| 02:52.51 | sylvanaar | there must be like GetItemInfo |
| 02:52.53 | sylvanaar | or something |
| 02:53.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Patrick_P (n=chatzill@modemcable153.181-80-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 02:53.20 | Patrick_P | hi |
| 02:53.29 | Torhal | itemName, itemLink, itemRarity, itemLevel, itemMinLevel, itemType, itemSubType, itemStackCount, |
| 02:53.29 | Torhal | itemEquipLoc, itemTexture = GetItemInfo(itemID or "itemString" or "itemName" or "itemLink") |
| 02:53.38 | Patrick_P | ne1 heard about xbox comunity games? |
| 02:53.49 | sylvanaar | if not you can itemlink:match("item:%d+") |
| 02:53.56 | Torhal | Patrick_P: This is a World of Warcraft developer channel., |
| 02:54.07 | Patrick_P | lol i know... |
| 02:54.13 | sylvanaar | so thats all the info you could ever want |
| 02:54.32 | Patrick_P | just wanted to point at their failure:P |
| 02:54.56 | sylvanaar | = /dump GetItemInfo("[EPIX]") |
| 02:56.57 | sylvanaar | oh, if you have only the name - you can save the link itself when you click on it |
| 02:58.38 | sylvanaar | anyone want to come die to frogger so i can test |
| 02:59.25 | sylvanaar | or will let me use their priest/pally |
| 03:00.53 | sylvanaar | ... |
| 03:00.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@pD957E335.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:01.09 | sylvanaar | anyone know if i can mousewheel cast like i can click-cast? |
| 03:02.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal_ (n=Torhal@74-130-66-145.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 03:03.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (i=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 03:03.26 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 03:03.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=skullsho@132.253.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 03:04.02 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 03:04.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=skullsho@132.253.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 03:04.35 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 03:04.48 | Gnarfoz | sylvanaar: not sure. cladhaire will know. ;) |
| 03:05.06 | GShock | Where can I see the formular of WOW, like how the AttackPower is really calced? |
| 03:05.16 | Shirik|Ghost | wowwiki |
| 03:05.30 | sylvanaar | PlayerFame.lua |
| 03:05.39 | sylvanaar | there are apis for alot of them |
| 03:05.54 | Shirik|Ghost | oh |
| 03:05.58 | Shirik|Ghost | I thought he meant like what it means |
| 03:06.17 | sylvanaar | try both GShock |
| 03:06.30 | Gnarfoz | Shirik|Ghost: I think your answer was the one he sought. ;) |
| 03:07.10 | GShock | Shirik|Ghost: can you give me a link or catogery? thx |
| 03:07.35 | Shirik|Ghost | There is a search box on wowwiki; if you are incapable of using it, then any link I give you will be mostly worthless to you |
| 03:08.00 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin (n=quoin@122-49-135-137.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 03:08.22 | GShock | ok, I'll seach for it :) |
| 03:08.51 | GShock | sylvanaar: playerfame.lua? |
| 03:09.13 | sylvanaar | ok, is it worth it to unregister RRU when joining a raid i need to call GetNumRaidMembers - is there a better way |
| 03:09.26 | sylvanaar | GShock even worse idea than using search imo |
| 03:10.05 | Tekkub | *stab stab stab* |
| 03:10.11 | sylvanaar | what |
| 03:10.15 | Shirik|Ghost | ~stab Tekkub |
| 03:10.16 | purl | ACTION runs at Tekkub with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 03:10.30 | Tekkub | cashier ring up item, Trey noticed bag is ripped, goes and gets another, and HANDS IT TO THE CASHIER not the bagger |
| 03:10.43 | Tekkub | and it's the cashier's fault we got charged twice... |
| 03:11.07 | Shirik|Ghost | huh? |
| 03:11.43 | sylvanaar | ok - keeping RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE registered and calling GetNumRaidMembers() - that still pretty much it i guss |
| 03:13.44 | mikma | sylvanaar: well, 5mins went pretty much hand in hand |
| 03:13.55 | mikma | i'll try 30 mins now :O |
| 03:14.18 | sylvanaar | mikma im fairly sure that was your buy |
| 03:14.20 | sylvanaar | bug |
| 03:14.54 | GShock | sylvanaar: I found them in wowwiki, I'm just curious where these come from? I didn't found a file named PlayerFame.lua. |
| 03:18.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 03:30.29 | Patrick_P | any1 know if addon studio is up to date enough to allow us to work with it without issues? i see it haven't been updated since july... |
| 03:35.17 | Patrick_P | well i'm not even able to d/l it... |
| 03:39.53 | Patrick_P | nice it work with IE.. |
| 03:42.15 | mikma | sylvanaar: i still think i could get rid of most of the crap in that function |
| 03:42.40 | sylvanaar | you can |
| 03:42.43 | mikma | sylvanaar: http://mikma.pastey.net/105075-1ehd this one to ... |
| 03:44.08 | mikma | sylvanaar: http://mikma.pastey.net/105077 <- may not be right, but something like that |
| 03:44.47 | mikma | timer = (WGT-time()) - elapsed |
| 03:46.26 | mikma | well, that lacks completely the steps it will take (second) |
| 03:52.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 03:52.35 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 03:55.33 | Patrick_P | Merry Christmas btw:P |
| 03:58.21 | Arrowmaster | Patrick_P: AddonStudio has never been workable without issues |
| 03:58.40 | Tekkub | does anyone actually use that? |
| 03:58.54 | Arrowmaster | people that dont know any better |
| 03:59.38 | Patrick_P | well there a complete chapter talking about this program in the wow prog book... |
| 04:00.00 | Patrick_P | so i shouldn't use it at all? |
| 04:00.05 | Aiiane | ./blame Kaelten |
| 04:00.09 | Tekkub | I think clad was just bribed |
| 04:00.19 | Tekkub | oh Kael? yea that splains it |
| 04:00.19 | Patrick_P | lol |
| 04:00.21 | Aiiane | ./blame Kaelten anyways |
| 04:00.24 | Arrowmaster | his friend wrote it or something |
| 04:00.37 | Arrowmaster | he defends it but its still crap |
| 04:00.50 | Tekkub | Patrick_P, I do believe most everyone here uses a plain ole text editor |
| 04:00.56 | Tekkub | we're not too keen on IDEs |
| 04:00.57 | Aiiane | seriously though, just start up WoW if you want to test :| |
| 04:01.03 | Tekkub | <--- Scite |
| 04:01.04 | Aiiane | why setting for an imitation |
| 04:01.09 | Aiiane | settle* |
| 04:01.24 | Patrick_P | it's an editor not a simulator:P |
| 04:01.28 | Tekkub | well, the wow environnment simulator has it's uses |
| 04:01.38 | Tekkub | we're not talking about that :P |
| 04:01.45 | Patrick_P | but anyways.. if nobody use it why would i... lol |
| 04:01.52 | Arrowmaster | its just a graphical frame designer |
| 04:01.57 | Aiiane | i mostly just meant UI designs >.> |
| 04:02.03 | Aiiane | i never said simulator :P |
| 04:02.30 | Patrick_P | is it hard to add our addon to the wow ui config panel? |
| 04:02.31 | Arrowmaster | well it only creates xml, and nobody here actually creates frames in xml anymore |
| 04:02.39 | Patrick_P | the game's default one i mean |
| 04:02.57 | Patrick_P | and do it worth it? |
| 04:02.57 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 04:02.57 | Tekkub | and who uses XML for frames :P |
| 04:03.07 | sylvanaar | jerry did a sim did you see it? |
| 04:03.24 | Arrowmaster | except the api isnt even close to finished |
| 04:03.28 | Patrick_P | why aren't u using xml anymore? lol i just read about 200 pages about xml...>< |
| 04:03.29 | Arrowmaster | so its not very useful |
| 04:04.12 | Arrowmaster | because lua is easier than xml |
| 04:04.17 | Patrick_P | ... lol |
| 04:04.37 | sylvanaar | im buying unrinal cakes for Arrowmasters breakfast |
| 04:04.45 | Patrick_P | well.. i thought it was easier to read and visualise in xml... but i may be wrong |
| 04:05.01 | Torhal_ | Patrick_P: For some _FUCKING_ reason, ALL of the examples are in XML. |
| 04:05.04 | sylvanaar | old arguement - both ways work |
| 04:05.05 | Torhal_ | Which is retarded. |
| 04:05.20 | Torhal_ | XML has its uses, but not for everything. |
| 04:05.51 | Tekkub | not only do I find lua much easier to read, it lets me not litter the global namespace with frame names |
| 04:05.51 | sylvanaar | lua is not better, and xml is not bad. |
| 04:05.51 | Patrick_P | lol who told me to buy this book already?:P |
| 04:06.00 | Arrowmaster | lua is better and xml is bad |
| 04:06.09 | sylvanaar | tabs! |
| 04:06.10 | Tekkub | agreed, lua IS better |
| 04:06.12 | Torhal_ | sylvanaar: Indeed, but everyone who gives examples usually does so in XML when Lua would suffice. |
| 04:06.29 | Tekkub | while XML "has it's uses" those uses can be duplicated in lua |
| 04:06.35 | Torhal_ | XML has its place. And it is NOT in 90% of the UI. |
| 04:06.40 | Tekkub | with the bonus of not being forced to name frames |
| 04:06.48 | Aiiane | lua is "better" in a technical sense |
| 04:06.53 | Aiiane | XML is nicer for a lot of people |
| 04:06.58 | Arrowmaster | if i had to actually create a complex frame in xml i would have to go searching for the exact syntax for each god damn feature and option when if i was using lua i could just look at an api list |
| 04:07.06 | |pez| | It's all about personal preference, really. :P |
| 04:07.15 | Tekkub | nah, lua is better in the technical sense... they both do the same thing, and lua doesn't force frame names |
| 04:07.20 | Aiiane | ...as opposed to a tag/attribute list, Arrowmaster ? |
| 04:07.26 | Aiiane | XML still has pretty standard syntax... |
| 04:07.30 | Torhal_ | |pez|: Kill all the white people. Then we'll be free. |
| 04:07.33 | Arrowmaster | not the wow xml |
| 04:07.40 | sylvanaar | idk, you guys like lua better since you develop in it you think, "why should I bother with xml". |
| 04:07.43 | Torhal_ | Oh, wait...I'm listening to Type-O Negative again. |
| 04:07.53 | Tekkub | well, okey, there's one tiny little attribute no one (but me?) uses that cannot be set in lua |
| 04:08.07 | Tekkub | but I *have* bitched at zooty to fix it a few times |
| 04:08.24 | Aiiane | which attribute Tekkub ? |
| 04:08.25 | Tekkub | sylvanaar, what does XML give me that lua does not? |
| 04:08.39 | Tekkub | maxLines on a FontString |
| 04:08.39 | Aiiane | visualization of hierarchy, but meh |
| 04:08.39 | sylvanaar | not relevant if you can do it all in lua, the xml serves the same purpose as teh globalstrings.lua |
| 04:08.45 | Arrowmaster | Tekkub: useless function wraps |
| 04:08.52 | Torhal_ | Tekkub: I'm sure neither he nor Cogwheel care, since Blizzard inserted the both of them in WoTLK |
| 04:09.27 | Torhal_ | sylvanaar: You said "teh". LOLZ ensue. |
| 04:09.58 | Patrick_P | lua can be used to create templates i can re-use so i don't need to create frames 1000 times instead of 1?? |
| 04:10.17 | sylvanaar | they are resources...static things, "string tables", "key bindings", "dialogs" |
| 04:10.19 | Tekkub | Patrick_P, well not "templates", but yes, frame factories |
| 04:10.24 | Arrowmaster | thats not what templetes are for |
| 04:10.41 | Arrowmaster | the frame is created either way |
| 04:10.54 | Patrick_P | and should i use the default wow ui config panel to host my addon's config? |
| 04:10.56 | Tekkub | yea, sorry didn't read the whole thing.... |
| 04:11.00 | Tekkub | yes |
| 04:12.09 | Patrick_P | but should i use the default wow ui config panel lol? |
| 04:12.16 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 04:12.19 | Patrick_P | kk lol |
| 04:12.35 | Patrick_P | i saw a lot of addons not using it... dunno why... |
| 04:12.44 | Patrick_P | is it hard to set up? |
| 04:12.47 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 04:12.48 | Torhal_ | Tekkub: Knex. That's what you were thinking. Admit it. |
| 04:12.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (i=amarande@24-151-102-150.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 04:12.55 | Arrowmaster | most where probably made before it existed |
| 04:13.01 | Patrick_P | kk |
| 04:13.06 | Amarande | Evening |
| 04:13.17 | Tekkub | the addons you see not using it were likely written before it existed |
| 04:13.23 | Tekkub | I slow |
| 04:13.31 | Patrick_P | lol thx |
| 04:13.36 | Torhal_ | Tekkub: You're not slow. You're special. |
| 04:13.37 | Tekkub | Torhal_, yea lua frame creation is totally like knex |
| 04:13.41 | Patrick_P | and i'll use lua:P |
| 04:13.49 | Torhal_ | Tekkub: I kow, right? |
| 04:13.55 | Torhal_ | Bah. I fail at typing. |
| 04:13.58 | Tekkub | try to make a crossbow with XMLegos, it's not easy |
| 04:14.07 | Torhal_ | Yah |
| 04:14.28 | Arrowmaster | ?? |
| 04:14.28 | Patrick_P | thx for all your answer again:) |
| 04:14.37 | Torhal_ | Arrowmaster: It's a joke. |
| 04:14.49 | Torhal_ | Conversation from the other night |
| 04:14.55 | Tekkub | Patrick_P, there are widget templates provided by blizzy if you're fine with naming your frames, otherwise you can grab tekKonfig if you want a pure-lua solution |
| 04:15.21 | Tekkub | then it's just a matter of anchoring the things how you want in your config panel |
| 04:15.40 | Aiiane | what is this xmlegos you speak of Tekkub ? |
| 04:15.44 | Aiiane | googling has failed me. |
| 04:15.53 | Tekkub | Arrowmaster, legos are great, but kinda rigid designs that need to support themselves or they collapse |
| 04:15.56 | Torhal_ | Aiiane: Goes with my joke. |
| 04:16.04 | Tekkub | knex, much more flexible and intuitive |
| 04:16.11 | Torhal_ | We were discussing Lego blocks versus Knex the other night. |
| 04:16.13 | sylvanaar | xml can be generated and reprocessed by a machine |
| 04:16.18 | Tekkub | Aiiane, XML == legos |
| 04:16.21 | Tekkub | lua == knex |
| 04:16.36 | Aiiane | theoretically, so can lua sylvanaar |
| 04:16.44 | Tekkub | sylvanaar, and you brought us back to the wow studio thing! |
| 04:17.14 | Tekkub | no one takes a convo full-circle like sylv |
| 04:17.42 | sylvanaar | actually, maybe it can - but there is no standard on how to do it |
| 04:17.43 | Aiiane | i prefer mobius strips |
| 04:18.01 | sylvanaar | all the xml stuff, is already in place |
| 04:18.18 | Aiiane | but Tekkub, now you've made me sad :( |
| 04:18.20 | Tekkub | Aiiane, well, you know, had to make function structures out of those |
| 04:18.25 | Aiiane | xmlegos would be an awesome concept |
| 04:18.27 | Shirik|Ecole | All I know is legos generally have problems going at angles |
| 04:18.28 | Tekkub | anywho, deenartime |
| 04:18.35 | Shirik|Ecole | So trying to make XML out of legos would be rather difficult |
| 04:18.40 | Shirik|Ecole | making the < and > wouldn't work too well |
| 04:18.42 | Aiiane | nono |
| 04:18.47 | Aiiane | legos defined by xml |
| 04:18.48 | Tekkub | Shirik, smarter than the legos... |
| 04:18.52 | Shirik|Ecole | I know :P |
| 04:19.05 | Aiiane | define some neat thing in xml |
| 04:19.10 | Aiiane | email it to lego |
| 04:19.18 | Aiiane | and they ship you back a lego sculpture |
| 04:19.18 | Shirik|Ecole | Lego already has a designer program |
| 04:19.21 | Shirik|Ecole | I wonder how it stores its data |
| 04:19.24 | sylvanaar | yeah, does it have a name? |
| 04:19.30 | sylvanaar | LML |
| 04:19.30 | Aiiane | but does it have a barebones interface |
| 04:19.31 | Shirik|Ecole | the program? |
| 04:19.43 | Aiiane | wysiwyg ftl! :P |
| 04:19.55 | |pez| | Anyone got any tips for making someone *stop* snoring. Which doesn't involve waking them up? >__> |
| 04:20.22 | Aiiane | kick them and hope they dont wake up? |
| 04:20.39 | sylvanaar | ~ /target <foo> /cast Silence |
| 04:20.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (i=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 04:20.53 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 04:21.21 | Shirik|Ghost | So as I was saying |
| 04:21.25 | Shirik|Ghost | the program is called "lego designer" iirc |
| 04:21.34 | sylvanaar | i think wow has a designer |
| 04:21.35 | Amarande | yay, looks like they've added a new hardest achievement heh |
| 04:21.39 | Shirik|Ghost | lego digital designer |
| 04:21.40 | Shirik|Ghost | that's it |
| 04:21.40 | Amarande | and people are already QQing! |
| 04:21.41 | sylvanaar | its a build of the client |
| 04:21.56 | Shirik|Ghost | sylvanaar: Not quite |
| 04:22.00 | Shirik|Ghost | it has devtools in it too ^_^ |
| 04:22.08 | Aiiane | Amarande: what achievement is that |
| 04:22.15 | sylvanaar | yeah |
| 04:22.47 | Amarande | Aiiane: 100 mounts |
| 04:22.56 | |pez| | QQing? I never remembe... ooohholycrap |
| 04:23.09 | |pez| | What does QQing mean btw? |
| 04:23.12 | Aiiane | im assuming 100 *unique* mounts |
| 04:23.13 | Aiiane | QQ = cry |
| 04:23.20 | Aiiane | (tears from eyes) |
| 04:23.21 | |pez| | Oh, right. |
| 04:23.23 | Shirik|Ghost | ~wtf qq |
| 04:23.29 | Shirik|Ghost | ~qq |
| 04:23.30 | purl | dpkg: touch me there agian and I'll scream! |
| 04:23.30 | Amarande | Aiiane: Yeah, which I'm not sure is actually possible right now |
| 04:23.34 | Aiiane | ~fail purl |
| 04:23.34 | purl | purl: FAIL! |
| 04:23.36 | Shirik|Ghost | ..... what? |
| 04:23.38 | Amarande | and it seems to be uncertain how long before it WILL be possible |
| 04:23.43 | mikma | ~QQ |
| 04:23.44 | purl | dpkg: touch me there agian and I'll scream! |
| 04:23.48 | Amarande | it might be something that can't be done until next expansion, even |
| 04:23.53 | Shirik|Ghost | agian |
| 04:24.14 | |pez| | I have ... 4 mounts? |
| 04:24.30 | |pez| | Yeah, I have four mounts. |
| 04:24.36 | Shirik|Ghost | I have 6! |
| 04:24.40 | Shirik|Ghost | 3 are silithids |
| 04:24.49 | Amarande | I have 10, and two of those are warlock class specific |
| 04:25.07 | Amarande | The good news: they're going to be removing racial restrictions on mounts, so no more tauren QQ |
| 04:25.07 | |pez| | Brewfest Ram, (sadly only the 60% speed one, didn't have money for the 100% speed one back in the day). |
| 04:25.10 | Shirik|Ghost | I have ground mount, air mount, and blizzard bear |
| 04:25.24 | Aiiane | http://www.wowhead.com/?items=15.5 go |
| 04:25.29 | Amarande | Which was why the Albino drake is so common, because they WANTED it to be hard to get, but because of the racial restrictions on mounts, it became absolutely unfair to tauren |
| 04:25.48 | Amarande | by absolutely unfair, I mean that tauren, at the time, basically had to spend $1,000+ of RL money on TCG cards to have a shot at it |
| 04:26.27 | Amarande | Maybe even 1,500-2,000$, depending on how many they needed ... I seem to recall that hardly any of the TCG mount cards go for less than $300, and $500+ is more likely |
| 04:26.31 | Cidan | man |
| 04:26.38 | Cidan | I have had this GM ticket open for like |
| 04:26.40 | Cidan | 3 hours |
| 04:26.50 | Syzgyn | for what |
| 04:26.53 | Amarande | Cidan: "The GMs have heard your petition and are waiting for you to cry uncle first" |
| 04:27.03 | |pez| | I'm still wanting a Spectral Tiger. |
| 04:27.03 | Cidan | bug that lets you fly in Dalaran |
| 04:27.12 | Syzgyn | oh? |
| 04:27.30 | Amarande | Cidan: maybe they're not going to answer it |
| 04:27.40 | Cidan | I want to log and play Fallout 3, D= |
| 04:27.48 | Shirik|Ghost | I don't get it |
| 04:27.48 | Shirik|Ghost | what is "Uncle" anyway |
| 04:27.54 | Amarande | let's see, a bug the abuse of which doesn't break the game in any real way? |
| 04:28.00 | Amarande | that's probably something they patch, not respond to directly heh |
| 04:28.00 | Shirik | p.s. I'm about to be DCed |
| 04:28.17 | |pez| | Cidan: how does this bug work? |
| 04:28.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Guest93066 (n=skullsho@132.253.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 04:28.53 | Cidan | |pez|: er, no? |
| 04:29.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (i=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 04:29.02 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 04:29.09 | Cidan | Well, I don't know if they know |
| 04:29.34 | Shirik | don't give him cookies |
| 04:29.35 | Amarande | Anyway, to get back to the 100 mounts achievement |
| 04:29.40 | Shirik | actually |
| 04:29.49 | Shirik | Cidan, can I send you some screenshots for feedback? :D |
| 04:29.50 | |pez| | Just wondering, cause. I flew into Dalaran once, and I thought ":o NOt possible!" then I noticed the timer that counted down to when I'd be thrown off. :P |
| 04:29.54 | Cidan | Shirik: Of course. |
| 04:31.53 | |pez| | I'm 1/4 into getting my Black War Bear! ... XD |
| 04:33.05 | Amarande | (Note: All this is Horde side) First, counting just normal and BC buyable/BG mounts, and counting the fact that they'll be removing racial restrictions, you can get to 62 mounts. |
| 04:33.19 | Amarande | Albino Drake makes 63. You can pick up your black war bear for 64. |
| 04:34.08 | Cidan | if you're Paladin you get two extra, or warlock |
| 04:34.14 | Cidan | then the TCG ones too |
| 04:34.36 | Amarande | Before counting really rare mounts, WotLK gets you to 74. You can also add three AQ mounts to get 77 (the red one is rarer, and will be treated later) |
| 04:35.25 | Amarande | Add the red AQ mount and the non-seasonal rare WotLK drop mounts and you're at 91. |
| 04:36.24 | mikma | whats the reward of 100 mounts |
| 04:36.36 | Amarande | mikma: dragonhawk mount |
| 04:36.46 | mikma | oh that. eww. |
| 04:37.22 | Amarande | it appears to be possible to do, but horrendous |
| 04:37.41 | Aiiane | Amarande: does this count things like the old strat mount, etc? |
| 04:37.52 | Amarande | Aiiane: yeah |
| 04:38.13 | Aiiane | which category was that counted in? |
| 04:38.14 | Amarande | Assuming that you don't invest hundreds of RL dollars into the TCG mounts (which really ARE that stupidly expensive, I looked on ebay a while back because I considered the nether rocket mount at one point) |
| 04:38.22 | Amarande | probably general |
| 04:38.34 | Amarande | though I think there's a separate FoS for the strat mount, too |
| 04:38.37 | Amarande | as well as for a few other specific ones |
| 04:39.18 | Amarande | and also assuming you are not a top arena player, and weren't lucky enough to get a war bear in ZA |
| 04:40.09 | Amarande | the only reasonable way to get those last nine seems to be to be an Engineer/Tailor, to manage to get BOTH brewfest mounts and the halloween mount, and manage to grind out enough Halaa tokens for both of those |
| 04:40.14 | |pez| | I wanted the ZA war bear. :\ |
| 04:40.47 | Gnarfoz | should have gotten it, then |
| 04:40.51 | |pez| | I also want one of those dark talbuks, but on my server, Halaa is pretty much desertet. |
| 04:40.57 | Gnarfoz | also, oh noes, Achievement blah blah again :D |
| 04:41.06 | Amarande | heh, some of us just weren't geared for ZA |
| 04:41.14 | |pez| | I wasn't high enough level for ZA XD |
| 04:41.27 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: by the time people started really going for the war bears, you practically had to be in T5+ to be invited to a war bear run |
| 04:41.34 | Amarande | If you were still in Kara, you never got the chance |
| 04:41.40 | Gnarfoz | "people started going"? |
| 04:41.44 | Gnarfoz | it's a freaking time run |
| 04:41.48 | Gnarfoz | you had to have the gear. |
| 04:41.51 | |pez| | I hit 70 on the day of the WotLK release. |
| 04:42.17 | Gnarfoz | too late, then |
| 04:42.27 | Amarande | I was still in Kara by September |
| 04:42.34 | Gnarfoz | I want a pre 1.5 epic mount and I had the money... but I was a Warlock then. :P |
| 04:42.35 | |pez| | Gnarfoz: Oh really? ;P |
| 04:42.42 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: boo-hoo! :P |
| 04:42.46 | |pez| | Ivory Raptor! |
| 04:42.49 | |pez| | I want that one too. |
| 04:42.50 | Amarande | given my work schedule, it would have been unrealistic to expect to make it to being geared for war bear runs by Oct 15th |
| 04:43.18 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: wasn't it easier to get the dreadsteed back then? |
| 04:43.23 | Gnarfoz | ...no? |
| 04:43.30 | Gnarfoz | easier than what |
| 04:43.36 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: easier than when I got mine, anyway |
| 04:44.01 | Amarande | when I got mine, 2.3 was current, and it took literally two weeks of LFG on my server to get the Scholo and DM groups |
| 04:44.12 | Gnarfoz | uhm... right! |
| 04:44.16 | Gnarfoz | 2.3 means +10 levels |
| 04:44.27 | Gnarfoz | it was *obviously* NOT easier. |
| 04:44.42 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: IF I was willing to double-pay for epic riding, or go to 70 with a 60% mount |
| 04:44.54 | Gnarfoz | what. |
| 04:44.56 | Torhal | BTW: Since 3.0, should I dump my old Warlock 60-level mount items? |
| 04:45.07 | Gnarfoz | Torhal: if you don't want them anymore? |
| 04:45.09 | Torhal | I'd ben using them now and again to help others get their Dreadsteed. |
| 04:45.12 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: because, before 3.0.2 and the being able to just train dreadsteed at 61 |
| 04:45.16 | Torhal | s/ben/been/ |
| 04:45.26 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: do you want everything handed to you on a silver platter? |
| 04:45.27 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 04:45.48 | Torhal | So I no longer need the items? |
| 04:45.55 | Amarande | I would have had to both do the quest, involving all the spending, AND I would have had to pay 600g for a fast chocobo and the regular training. |
| 04:46.12 | Gnarfoz | soooooooo what? |
| 04:46.13 | Torhal | Chocobo FTW! |
| 04:46.22 | Torhal | Well, if you're playing a Final Fantasy game... |
| 04:46.24 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: what I was getting at is, when your warlock was 60, it was a much, much easier matter to get a group for the instances required than after BC came out |
| 04:46.35 | Gnarfoz | >_<!!!! |
| 04:46.38 | Amarande | At least they declined to screw druids over with WotLK |
| 04:46.42 | Amarande | so I guess Blizzard did learn :) |
| 04:46.50 | Gnarfoz | how the fuck is it relevant if your server is dead |
| 04:46.54 | Gnarfoz | or people don't want to help you |
| 04:47.01 | Gnarfoz | at level 60 it was way harder |
| 04:47.05 | Gnarfoz | and it was fucking expensive |
| 04:47.11 | Gnarfoz | it was NOT easier in any way |
| 04:47.19 | Torhal | Gnarfoz: Watch your fucking language. |
| 04:47.22 | Torhal | :D |
| 04:47.27 | Amarande | yeah, there was the fact that Scholomance used to basically be like Kara |
| 04:47.28 | Gnarfoz | why should I? lol |
| 04:47.34 | Torhal | :D |
| 04:47.42 | Gnarfoz | you lack a damn clue, Amarande |
| 04:47.44 | Amarande | Didn't Scholo actually used to basically -be- the Kara of classic WOW? |
| 04:47.52 | Amarande | IIRC, it used to even be intended for ten |
| 04:48.05 | Amarande | although I'm not sure whether it was meant to be progression before or after UBRS |
| 04:48.08 | Torhal | Amarande: Ten at LEAST. |
| 04:48.25 | Gnarfoz | you don't even know what you're talking about |
| 04:48.48 | Gnarfoz | Scholo was raidable, but since the quests are not raid quests, you had to do it with 5 |
| 04:49.07 | Gnarfoz | scholo was intended for both, but guess what, one of the two was actually harder than the other |
| 04:49.19 | Torhal | Gnarfoz: So: is it a habit, ritual, or a "oh, fuck it" that you eat babies? |
| 04:49.25 | Torhal | :D |
| 04:49.37 | Gnarfoz | Torhal: what |
| 04:49.57 | Amarande | They need to do something to Scholo to make it more attractive again. |
| 04:50.01 | Torhal | Gnarfoz: Meh. I was simply trying to be nonchalant at your aggression. |
| 04:50.14 | Amarande | It's a very interesting dungeon, and I've never even seen its atmosphere duplicated anywhere else |
| 04:50.20 | Amarande | Kara sort of comes close, but not really |
| 04:50.23 | Gnarfoz | Torhal: I don't care. |
| 04:50.34 | Torhal | Amarande: Deadmines. |
| 04:50.45 | Torhal | Gnarfoz: Nor do I, save for the entertainment factor. |
| 04:53.03 | Aiiane | BFD makes me sad, its a nice instance that's not nearly as popular as it could be |
| 04:53.40 | mikma | booooooooooooooooooring |
| 04:53.53 | Aiiane | ~lart mikma |
| 04:53.53 | purl | hereby declares mikma a troll |
| 04:54.08 | Torhal | Aiiane: WoW in of itself is not consistent. There are instances where I get 7FPS, and others where I get 35+FPS. |
| 04:54.26 | Torhal | Many many developers, without apparent continuuity supervison. |
| 04:54.45 | Aiiane | on a side note |
| 04:54.58 | Aiiane | whose freaking "brilliant" idea was it to put the sons of arugal in silverpine |
| 04:55.13 | mikma | ~mikma |
| 04:55.13 | purl | methinks mikma is an agitator but i love him anyway. also a whiner. |
| 04:55.19 | Torhal | Aiiane: They're no longer Elite. |
| 04:55.43 | Shirik | ~emulate mikma |
| 04:55.44 | purl | ACTION is an assclown. |
| 04:55.48 | Aiiane | meh, they were when i played through there Torhal, that's all i care about :P |
| 04:56.26 | mikma | ~emulate mikma |
| 04:56.27 | purl | ACTION is an assclown. |
| 04:56.37 | mikma | huh, i thought it had more |
| 04:56.39 | Aiiane | ~emulate ps3 |
| 04:56.42 | Aiiane | :( |
| 04:56.45 | Torhal | Aiiane: Every iteration of WoW seems to be this: "Fuck the oldschoolers. All they should care about it the fact that their ALTS shouldn't have to go through the same bullshit.' |
| 04:56.46 | Shirik | ~literal emulate mikma |
| 04:56.47 | purl | "emulate mikma" is "(<action>is an assclown. | <reply>I like cake. | <reply>$randnick is an assclown. | <reply>Industrial loves manboobs! | <reply>$randnick: Make it Ace2 |<reply>$randnick: It's broken, fix it! |<reply>I love copypaste|<reply>with penis sized as firehose)" |
| 04:56.53 | Shirik | random luck, mikma :) |
| 04:57.03 | mikma | apparently |
| 04:57.31 | mikma | ~emulate mikma |
| 04:57.32 | purl | Sixen: Make it Ace2 |
| 04:57.48 | Shirik | heh |
| 04:57.52 | Shirik | out of date factoid ^_^ |
| 04:58.05 | Torhal | Shirik: iS IT? :d |
| 04:58.18 | Torhal | CAPSLOCK FTL! |
| 04:58.41 | mikma | ~emulate mikma |
| 04:58.42 | purl | ZorbaTHut: It's broken, fix it! |
| 04:58.54 | mikma | nicely forwarded |
| 04:59.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Joontje (n=lol@cable-186-113.zeelandnet.nl) |
| 05:00.10 | Joontje | hello |
| 05:00.39 | mikma | cosmos discontinued |
| 05:00.59 | Joontje | Does any of you know what happened to photekUI? i cant find it anymore |
| 05:01.22 | mikma | ~whaleparry shirik |
| 05:01.23 | purl | ACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry shirik's attacks. |
| 05:01.39 | |pez| | Informant is supposed to know what things sell for to vendors? |
| 05:02.11 | Anaral | pez, yess |
| 05:02.27 | mikma | pez on you |
| 05:02.41 | |pez| | And, the latest version should know most WotLK stuff? |
| 05:02.57 | mikma | auctioneeraddon.com |
| 05:03.10 | Anaral | yesh |
| 05:03.13 | Joontje | Anaral, hi :p |
| 05:03.18 | Shirik | Does git have some standard folder it injects like svn's .svn folder? |
| 05:03.27 | Aiiane | Joontje: dunno if photek maintains it anymore |
| 05:03.30 | Joontje | couldnt sleep ^_^ |
| 05:03.38 | Anaral | Joontje: Didn't you goto bed a couple of hours ago. |
| 05:03.41 | Aiiane | Joontje: there are some other people who have done remakes tho, like this - http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info11574-AlkarsRemakePhotek.html |
| 05:03.41 | |pez| | Well, I downloaded the newest informant, and it's not telling me what stuff sells for at the vendor! :o |
| 05:03.52 | mikma | shirik: drwxr-xr-x 8 mikma mikma 4096 Dec 25 18:30 .git |
| 05:03.58 | Joontje | i did Anaral, but then i couldnt |
| 05:03.58 | Aiiane | Shirik: .git ? |
| 05:04.01 | Anaral | pez, try the beta build. |
| 05:04.13 | |pez| | Anaral: Well, that's what I did, really. |
| 05:04.14 | Joontje | Aiiane, bleh, im trying to recreate the ui i had pre 3.0 |
| 05:04.34 | Anaral | Um, you sure you have Inf loaded? |
| 05:04.40 | Anaral | ;) |
| 05:05.10 | |pez| | Anaral: preeeetty sure, I'll go check though I guess. :P |
| 05:05.21 | |pez| | Yes I do. |
| 05:05.42 | Joontje | Aiiane thanks for the link, sadly it doesnt look as slick :( |
| 05:06.12 | Anaral | Do you have sell info turned on? /informant show-sell. |
| 05:07.01 | Anaral | it's /informant show-vendor-sell * |
| 05:07.35 | |pez| | It seems to be on. |
| 05:07.51 | Anaral | Does it show any pricing info at all? |
| 05:08.06 | Anaral | Like for pre-northrend items? |
| 05:08.19 | |pez| | Yes, but not for WotLK stuff. And yes, I'm pretty sure ... waait. |
| 05:10.11 | Anaral | What is the revision number for the Informant you have, pez? |
| 05:10.31 | |pez| | Right, I seem to have been putting the new Informant into some other directory. |
| 05:10.36 | |pez| | Hold on a sec, while I try again. :P |
| 05:10.42 | Anaral | Lol, okay. |
| 05:12.04 | |pez| | Aha! |
| 05:12.10 | |pez| | Thankyou for your patience. |
| 05:12.29 | |pez| | and help |
| 05:12.37 | |pez| | You can now point and lol in my general direction. |
| 05:14.30 | MentalPower | I've done that mistake before :) |
| 05:15.02 | |pez| | Hehe |
| 05:15.11 | |pez| | I'm btw pondering installing XP on my laptop. |
| 05:15.20 | |pez| | I love Vista really, but my laptop doesn't. |
| 05:16.06 | |pez| | I think it's Vistas fault that I get shitty FPS in WoW these days. |
| 05:16.21 | Anaral | As have I... I've also forgotten that I disabled informant before via slashcommands and wondered why it wasn't loaded the next session. Hence why I asked what I did. lol |
| 05:17.13 | |pez| | Good to know I'm not the only one making silly mistakes! |
| 05:22.40 | p3lim | UnitName(unit) has a 2nd return, what is that? |
| 05:24.43 | sylvanaar | did i miss some good warlock emo? |
| 05:25.30 | Shirik | qq we not have green fire |
| 05:25.37 | Shirik | oh god that was a great thread |
| 05:25.47 | Aiiane | so did they add a green fire minor glyph yet :P |
| 05:26.09 | Aiiane | i would laugh so hard if they have/did |
| 05:26.14 | Tekkub | Glyph of shott green fire from your ass? |
| 05:26.20 | Tekkub | *shoot |
| 05:26.24 | Shirik | that would be a great idea Aiiane |
| 05:26.28 | sylvanaar | glyph of felhunter |
| 05:26.31 | sylvanaar | thats so funny |
| 05:26.58 | sylvanaar | in 2005 i would have been amazed |
| 05:28.13 | sylvanaar | back then every warlock agreed a demon that can heal you is 100% OP. now whats it heal for 1k / 8s? |
| 05:29.17 | Amarande | and now we also have fel armor, which means we regenerate life insanely fast even in combat |
| 05:30.00 | sylvanaar | yeah. its still your mana pool |
| 05:31.08 | kd3 | what the hell |
| 05:31.10 | sylvanaar | or was, when i quit playing my lock (in 2005). I guess i should dust him off ond play him |
| 05:31.17 | kd3 | gnome still doesn't support having different wallpapers on each head? |
| 05:31.37 | sylvanaar | ~random |
| 05:33.03 | Aiiane | kd3: i thought it did o.0 |
| 05:33.58 | mikma | local second = mod(timer, 60) <- whats mod()? also whats min()? |
| 05:34.25 | kd3 | aiiane... http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147808 |
| 05:34.30 | kd3 | check the date of that bug |
| 05:34.41 | Aiiane | lua> math.mod(13, 5) |
| 05:34.41 | lua_bot | Aiiane: 3 |
| 05:34.45 | Aiiane | @mikma |
| 05:35.01 | kd3 | mod is integer division. it returns the remainder |
| 05:35.21 | kd3 | min just returns the minimum of the values you pass it |
| 05:35.35 | kd3 | lua> min(4,8,10248,2) |
| 05:35.36 | lua_bot | kd3: luabot:1: attempt to call global 'min' (a nil value) |
| 05:35.41 | kd3 | lua> math.min(4,8,10248,2) |
| 05:35.42 | lua_bot | kd3: 2 |
| 05:35.57 | mikma | oh... good to know |
| 05:36.41 | Aiiane | I think WoW may have them mirrored in the global namespace |
| 05:36.50 | Aiiane | but they're just the same function as the ones in the math module |
| 05:36.58 | kd3 | just an alias to the math one |
| 05:37.04 | Aiiane | nods, even |
| 05:37.26 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Lua_functions |
| 05:38.13 | Aiiane | i know when porting some wow code to war I've done plenty of "local min = math.min" etc :P |
| 05:38.19 | Shirik | However, be careful |
| 05:38.24 | Shirik | math.mod is not the same as operator % |
| 05:38.31 | Shirik | (though mod == math.mod) |
| 05:38.47 | Aiiane | what's the difference on % versus math.mod Shirik ? |
| 05:38.52 | Aiiane | negative mods? |
| 05:39.02 | MentalPower | Aiiane: you port between WoW and WAR? |
| 05:39.04 | Shirik | lua> return math.mod(-2, 5), (-2 % 5) |
| 05:39.05 | lua_bot | Shirik: -2, 3 |
| 05:39.12 | Aiiane | yeah, that's what i figured |
| 05:39.22 | Aiiane | MentalPower: some |
| 05:39.26 | MentalPower | is it hard? |
| 05:39.31 | Aiiane | depends on what im porting |
| 05:39.40 | Aiiane | some stuff I just write from scratch because it's easier |
| 05:39.43 | MentalPower | what have you ported? |
| 05:39.52 | Aiiane | um, a good portion of ace3? :P |
| 05:41.18 | Aiiane | not all that many front-end mods simply because most of them don't translate well |
| 05:41.28 | Aiiane | those are easier to just write from scratch/near-scratch |
| 05:41.44 | MentalPower | any auction mods? |
| 05:42.03 | Aiiane | I haven't personally worked on auction stuff, no, although there's a couple of people who have |
| 05:42.03 | mikma | lua> local minute = math.mod(5*1/60, 60); print(minute) |
| 05:42.04 | lua_bot | mikma: 0.083333333333333 |
| 05:42.25 | mikma | lua> local minute = math.mod(50*1/60, 60); print(minute) |
| 05:42.25 | lua_bot | mikma: 0.83333333333333 |
| 05:42.35 | mikma | bleh |
| 05:42.42 | Aiiane | what are you trying to do mik |
| 05:43.21 | mikma | to see what the hack is blizz doing in their code |
| 05:43.43 | Aiiane | im guessing timer is an integer counter of seconds |
| 05:44.02 | Aiiane | and thus taking it mod 60 gives them the actual value of the 'seconds' field of a standard clock display |
| 05:44.18 | Aiiane | since any multiples of 60 would be handled by the minutes field |
| 05:44.49 | mikma | hmm ya |
| 05:45.10 | Aiiane | my guess after that (if they're also using minute = mod(timer/60, 60) |
| 05:45.25 | Aiiane | would be that they're feeding minute to a string.format() command using a %d code |
| 05:45.40 | Aiiane | so that it's automatically rounded down and displayed as an integer |
| 05:46.09 | Aiiane | lua> string.format("%d", math.mod(123/60, 60)) |
| 05:46.10 | lua_bot | Aiiane: 2 |
| 05:46.35 | mikma | yeah, 122 seconds |
| 05:46.37 | Aiiane | lua> string.format("%d:%d", math.mod(143/60, 60), math.mod(143, 60)) |
| 05:46.38 | lua_bot | Aiiane: 2:23 |
| 05:46.55 | Aiiane | (though you'd probably use %02d for the seconds, to make sure it's double-digit |
| 05:49.41 | mikma | lua> print(math.mod(134,60)) |
| 05:49.41 | lua_bot | mikma: 14 |
| 05:50.31 | nobin | lua> print("Lua Sucks") |
| 05:50.32 | lua_bot | nobin: Lua Sucks |
| 05:50.38 | mikma | lua> print(math.mod(124,60)) |
| 05:50.38 | lua_bot | mikma: 4 |
| 05:50.38 | Aiiane | ok. really sleep time for me :x |
| 05:50.45 | Aiiane | night! |
| 05:50.49 | Shirik | do I need to ban you again? |
| 05:50.54 | mikma | hmm right, night |
| 05:50.55 | nobin | mabye |
| 05:50.55 | Shirik | permanently? |
| 05:51.06 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+b %nobin!*@*] by Shirik |
| 05:51.29 | mikma | evul |
| 05:51.52 | Amarande | what's the % do? |
| 05:51.58 | Shirik | mute |
| 05:52.10 | Thunder_Child | pick better friends Shirik |
| 05:52.14 | mikma | now thats evul |
| 05:52.24 | Shirik | perl just brainwashed him before I could get to him |
| 05:52.35 | *** join/#wowuidev squidbear (n=squidbea@cpe-66-67-132-12.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 05:52.48 | mikma | well that'll quarantee some chicka for him!! |
| 05:52.53 | mikma | perl =D |
| 05:52.54 | Shirik | how anyone can actually "like" perl is beyond me |
| 05:53.16 | Torhal | Shirik: What do I need to do to get a setup like Tekkub on WoWI? I mean, who wouldn't want to get their addons from Torhals Trailer of Trash? |
| 05:53.27 | Torhal | :D |
| 05:53.32 | Tekkub | bribe cair |
| 05:53.34 | Shirik | uh... what? |
| 05:53.43 | Torhal | Tekkub: You louse! |
| 05:53.49 | Tekkub | also, I liked perl, it was fun |
| 05:53.53 | Torhal | Hehhee |
| 05:53.56 | Tekkub | it's like the programmer secret language |
| 05:54.04 | Torhal | Shirik: Tekkub has his own section on WoWI :) |
| 05:54.04 | Shirik | did you really just use "perl" and "fun" in the same sentence? |
| 05:54.11 | Torhal | ROFL |
| 05:54.12 | mikma | tekkub: ans look how many chicks you got!!!! |
| 05:54.12 | Tekkub | you're not a programmer till you know the secret language |
| 05:54.12 | Shirik | Torhal: You mean FA status |
| 05:54.17 | mikma | and* |
| 05:54.31 | Shirik | you need to have a reason to become featured :) |
| 05:54.40 | Torhal | Shirik: Yah, I do. But mainly, I was just trying to prod Tekkub to say something. |
| 05:54.46 | *** join/#wowuidev squidbear (n=squidbea@cpe-66-67-132-12.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 05:57.27 | Amarande | lol ... someone put up a stack of four of the same glyph on ah |
| 05:57.29 | Amarande | l2auctioneer ... heh |
| 05:57.46 | squidbear | Why can I not target people from other battlegroups ? |
| 05:58.14 | squidbear | (with my addon) |
| 05:58.25 | mikma | protected |
| 05:58.32 | mikma | blizz only. |
| 05:58.50 | Tekkub | squidbear asks too many questions |
| 05:58.52 | squidbear | Ugh. Is there a tutorial somewhere that teaches how to do secure stuff? |
| 05:59.07 | squidbear | I've been trying to follow wowwiki but it doesn't really answer my question |
| 05:59.08 | mikma | you cant target with wow api |
| 05:59.13 | Tekkub | yes, find an addon that does what you want and rip it apart |
| 05:59.47 | Thunder_Child | Fisker- will rip you apart Tekkub |
| 06:00.36 | Tekkub | Fisker-'s all talk |
| 06:07.58 | mikma | lua> local hour = min(floor(300*(1/60*1/60)), 99); print(hour) |
| 06:07.58 | lua_bot | mikma: luabot:1: attempt to call global 'floor' (a nil value) |
| 06:08.10 | mikma | lua> local hour = min(math.floor(300*(1/60*1/60)), 99); print(hour) |
| 06:08.10 | lua_bot | mikma: luabot:1: attempt to call global 'min' (a nil value) |
| 06:08.15 | mikma | gah! |
| 06:08.24 | mikma | lua> local hour = math.min(math.floor(300*(1/60*1/60)), 99); print(hour) |
| 06:08.24 | lua_bot | mikma: 0 |
| 06:08.47 | mikma | lua> local hour = math.min(math.floor(30000*(1/60*1/60)), 99); print(hour) |
| 06:08.47 | lua_bot | mikma: 8 |
| 06:09.14 | *** join/#wowuidev KanadiaN (n=no@bas7-london14-1242447938.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 06:10.13 | KanadiaN | could i please get some help in wherei need to go to get help with lua? |
| 06:10.56 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 06:11.12 | mikma | kanadian: www.lua.org/pil |
| 06:11.13 | Cidan | KanadiaN: That... is a broad question |
| 06:11.51 | mikma | i myself learned by looking other addons, also try and error is a good way =/ |
| 06:12.47 | KanadiaN | i have been looking at other addons but have been unable to pull a link out of a string of text |
| 06:13.00 | Thunder_Child | mikma, lazy man way is ~pil |
| 06:13.32 | Thunder_Child | s/man/person/ |
| 06:14.51 | *** part/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 06:15.29 | mikma | ~lazy |
| 06:15.30 | purl | [lazy] "Hard work my pay of later, but LAZINESS pays off now! Working hard at hardly working!" |
| 06:15.45 | mikma | my pay of |
| 06:16.00 | Thunder_Child | is it bad when i dont like any of the choices for GotY ? |
| 06:17.00 | mikma | kanadian: link out of a string of text? |
| 06:17.48 | mikma | thunder_child: garbage of the year |
| 06:18.17 | Thunder_Child | mikma, mmmm....me likey |
| 06:18.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ecole (i=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 06:18.23 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|Ecole] by ChanServ |
| 06:20.35 | KanadiaN | ya an example "has earned the achievement [Can I Keep Him?]" I want to pull [Can I Keep Him?] |
| 06:21.46 | Shirik | Do you know what a regex is? |
| 06:22.06 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 06:22.15 | Shirik | not you! |
| 06:22.17 | Thunder_Child | though i dont like purl |
| 06:22.21 | Thunder_Child | 's answer |
| 06:22.28 | KanadiaN | i tryed string.gsub (Msg, "|c(%x+)|Hachievement:%d-:%d-:%d-:%d-:%d-:%d-:%d-:%d-:%d-:%d-|h%[([^%]]-)%]|h|r", "%1") |
| 06:23.05 | Shirik | why? |
| 06:23.08 | *** join/#wowuidev keias (i=saiek@c-69-245-244-213.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 06:23.11 | Shirik | Screw string.gsub, just use string.gmatch |
| 06:23.18 | Shirik | and drop the third parameter |
| 06:25.19 | Amarande | Thunder: what's being nominated for game of the year this year? |
| 06:25.38 | Amarande | I'm beginning to wonder if computer gaming in general is becoming a stagnant genre now ... |
| 06:26.08 | Thunder_Child | Amarande, well there is no "one" GotY afaik, what i was talking about is http://www.gamespot.com/best-of/game-of-the-year/index.html?page=2&tag=nl.e573 |
| 06:26.17 | Amarande | Let's see, you keep getting your FPS, which tend to basically be the same game lately with different maps and weapons |
| 06:26.28 | Amarande | Then you have your sports games, which are just a graphics and roster update over last year's, pretty much |
| 06:27.43 | squidbear | Mmm I need Iriel :P |
| 06:28.06 | squidbear | He could like write a book on secure handlers and templates... |
| 06:28.12 | Amarande | Thunder: I'm going to vote for Braid, simply because it looks more unique than the other ones |
| 06:28.49 | Amarande | FO3 could deserve it as well, but the other ones seem distinctly meh |
| 06:29.06 | Amarande | yay, burnout paradise. another car racing game. I can just get GT3 or GT4 for bargain basement prices. |
| 06:29.42 | KanadiaN | Shirik: this is what I get with that regx "attempt to concatenate local 'thisstring' (a function value)" |
| 06:29.48 | Amarande | yay. GTA4. it's GTA. they're all the same, except having different graphics and a different angry young man as protagonist in a different city |
| 06:30.34 | Thunder_Child | yes Amarande, it's called a sequel |
| 06:30.38 | Amarande | yay, Left 4 Dead. How many zombie survival games that are all basically the same idea does that make now? |
| 06:31.05 | ZorbaTHut | I don't actually know of any other team-vs-team multiplayer zombie survival games |
| 06:31.14 | ZorbaTHut | what other ones are you referring to? |
| 06:31.38 | Amarande | yay, NHL 09. published by EA = bad. |
| 06:31.48 | sylvanaar | what do you wamt |
| 06:32.00 | sylvanaar | want? i hav patterns for all of the links |
| 06:32.43 | Shirik | KanadiaN: Firstly, Lua doesn't have regexes |
| 06:32.45 | Amarande | There is of course the hope that a FO3 victory (which does still seem a distinct possibility) would revitalize the RPG genre, though. |
| 06:32.47 | Shirik | it has patterns |
| 06:32.57 | Shirik | Secondly, string.match couldn't have caused that problem |
| 06:32.58 | Amarande | since the RPG genre seems, sadly, to be continuing to die |
| 06:33.27 | Cheatcakes | how do I send out chat text via Lua code? |
| 06:33.38 | Shirik | !api SendChatMessage |
| 06:33.38 | lua_bot | Documentation for 'SendChatMessage' can be found at http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/SendChatMessage |
| 06:33.54 | Cheatcakes | thank you (and good job beating the bot to it) :D |
| 06:34.26 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: you better not be talking bad about Burnout Paradise |
| 06:34.41 | Amarande | Thunder, do you think a victory for FO3 would help the RPG genre any, or simply make its sendoff years look brighter? |
| 06:34.50 | sylvanaar | go download a chat mod |
| 06:34.58 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: actually, yeah, I can't like Burnout Paradise at all, come to think of it |
| 06:35.04 | Amarande | I just realized ... it's published by EA |
| 06:35.21 | Arrowmaster | yeah i know.... |
| 06:35.21 | KanadiaN | Shirik: no i tryed to print thisstring after string.match to "DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME" |
| 06:35.51 | Amarande | It does look as if PC is the only future for RPGs, and even there they're just hanging on. |
| 06:36.18 | Shirik | It says thisstring is a function, so you definitely did something wrong, KanadiaN |
| 06:36.36 | Shirik | without seeing your code I can't help you |
| 06:37.15 | ZorbaTHut | I think it kind of depends on what you mean by "rpg" |
| 06:37.18 | Amarande | Virtually all the Xbox 360 RPGs are PC ports, the only ones I can really think of off the top of my head that are not are Fable 2 and Star Ocean 4 |
| 06:37.26 | ZorbaTHut | by some definitions, there's an RPG component to Dead Space |
| 06:37.27 | Amarande | The PS3 has virtually no decent RPGs to speak of |
| 06:37.35 | Amarande | The Wii is a -little- better off, but not much |
| 06:37.57 | Amarande | pretty much, the RPG console has remained the PS2 through all these years, but now that's coming to a close as well, with Ar tonelico 2 apparently to be the last one early next year |
| 06:38.04 | ZorbaTHut | if you take "RPG" to mean "storyline plus some customizable character advancement", I think there's a lot of space available for it |
| 06:38.08 | KanadiaN | Shirik: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/105088 |
| 06:38.20 | Amarande | Zorba: even Devil May Cry games are RPGs then, though |
| 06:38.27 | ZorbaTHut | and I'm having trouble coming up with a more specific definition that doesn't clobber other obvious RPGs |
| 06:38.28 | sylvanaar | i bought a 360 to play fable |
| 06:38.39 | Shirik | string.gmatch is not string.match |
| 06:38.40 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, I haven't played them, but from what I know of them, yes, that's a not-absurd position |
| 06:38.41 | Shirik | very different |
| 06:38.45 | Shirik | string.match is what you want |
| 06:39.06 | Amarande | Zorba: however, one element I tend to think defines 'RPG' over 'non-RPG' |
| 06:39.17 | Shirik | string.gmatch returns an iterator function |
| 06:39.20 | Shirik | string.match returns the match |
| 06:39.26 | Amarande | is that for the most part, RPGs de-emphasize the fast action platformer elements |
| 06:39.43 | ZorbaTHut | I think you might be able to produce more interesting concepts if you break it into "JRPG" and "USRPG". They're quite different styles. |
| 06:39.59 | Amarande | well, the JRPG pretty much is dead |
| 06:40.01 | ZorbaTHut | Yeah, that's true. At that point, though, any strategy game could be considered an RPG |
| 06:40.12 | ZorbaTHut | I dunno, I think the USRPG is deader |
| 06:40.16 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, there's Fallout 3. |
| 06:40.18 | ZorbaTHut | And nothing else. |
| 06:40.29 | Amarande | Zorba: there was a recent Neverwinter Nights 2 expansion, and there's Dragon Age coming up |
| 06:40.40 | Amarande | although I probably won't buy DA, because of the EA element |
| 06:41.11 | Amarande | the way EA has been with anti-piracy measures, by the time DA comes out, I probably would have to draw blood every time I go to play the game, in order to verify that I am a registered user :P |
| 06:41.57 | p3lim | Hm i just wish the preview pictures on wowi didnt get so messed up |
| 06:42.02 | ZorbaTHut | but we're talking two companies there. Bethesda and Bioware. There's more than that JRPG-wise - Square, Atlus, Namco, Level 5 |
| 06:42.06 | Amarande | well, perhaps the JRPG and USRPG are both pretty much dead, which means the RPG genre as a whole is passing on |
| 06:42.16 | p3lim | sure, if its a full screen shot i understand, but a cut down screen shot should have full quality |
| 06:42.25 | ZorbaTHut | I agree that both of them are rarer than they used to be, but I think the JRPG is doing better overall |
| 06:42.40 | Amarande | Square ... maybe, although except for the main-line FF series, they seem to be moving more into the action game genre too |
| 06:42.44 | ZorbaTHut | and I have a hard time looking at TWEWY or Disgaea and feeling like the genre is dead |
| 06:42.52 | Amarande | Namco ... are pretty much the EA of Japan :( |
| 06:43.02 | ZorbaTHut | being EA doesn't necessarily mean the games are bad. |
| 06:43.10 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, hell, Katamari Damacy. |
| 06:43.12 | Arrowmaster | just the management |
| 06:43.28 | Amarande | Zorba: well, the two big-name Namco RPG series I can think of off the top of my head are .hack//G.U. and Xenosaga |
| 06:43.42 | ZorbaTHut | Dark Cloud also, though that wasn't really big-name |
| 06:43.51 | Amarande | GU was ok, but the Avatar battles were irritating as all hell, and it definitely in general wasn't as good as the original .hack series published by pre-Namco Bandai |
| 06:43.55 | ZorbaTHut | but I mean those three together are more than either Bioware or Bethesda has |
| 06:44.06 | sylvanaar | dark cloud 2 |
| 06:44.09 | Amarande | which is why I drew the comparison to EA in particular, because of say, the decline of the Ultima series post-EA |
| 06:44.13 | sylvanaar | that was fun |
| 06:44.14 | ZorbaTHut | both of which are (last I heard, at least) limited to fundamentally two franchises |
| 06:44.35 | Amarande | As for Xenosaga, Namco managed to make Greatest Hits with Episode I |
| 06:44.41 | sylvanaar | im pisses sqare releaed its new game for xbox |
| 06:44.50 | Amarande | and then they decided, despite having made Greatest Hits with Episode I, that they needed to make Episode II "more accessible" |
| 06:44.56 | Amarande | the result was, to put it mildly, EPIC FAIL |
| 06:45.03 | ZorbaTHut | I think the downfall of the Ultima series was at least partially thanks to Richard Garriott. he had a real knack for 386-era RPGs, but it turned out that his design sense didn't evolve along with the rest of the industry |
| 06:45.12 | ZorbaTHut | and now we have Tabula Rasa |
| 06:45.23 | Arrowmaster | so bad |
| 06:45.25 | Amarande | and was one of the major reasons if not -the- reason that Xenosaga did not go to six episodes as planned |
| 06:45.28 | sylvanaar | Ultima I |
| 06:45.32 | Amarande | III did okay, but not good enough to keep the series alive |
| 06:45.35 | sylvanaar | played it myself |
| 06:45.40 | ZorbaTHut | he made a bunch of really good games, *for the time*, and he just couldn't keep up with improvements in games |
| 06:45.51 | Amarande | Zorba: shouldn't "improvements" be in quotes, though |
| 06:45.55 | ZorbaTHut | and Ultima sort of died with him. |
| 06:45.58 | Amarande | the Ultima VII games are still two of the very best RPGs ever made |
| 06:46.14 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, I don't think so. I play a lot of old games. Many of them are byzantine and ridiculous. Comparatively, they're just not much fun. |
| 06:46.27 | ZorbaTHut | Sierra adventure games are probably the best example, honestly |
| 06:46.32 | sylvanaar | there really wasnt much left to inoovate in that space |
| 06:46.37 | ZorbaTHut | they were beloved at the time, but you go back and play them now and they're fucking sadistic |
| 06:46.37 | Amarande | the problem is the industry seems to have decided it best to run with some of the elements that are not too friendly to maintaining the longevity of the RPG genre |
| 06:46.44 | ZorbaTHut | "oh I'm sorry you clicked on the wrong pixel, DEAD" |
| 06:46.48 | sylvanaar | you mean like Liesure Suit Larry |
| 06:46.50 | ZorbaTHut | they're quite terrible games in retrospect :P |
| 06:46.55 | Amarande | Zorba: heh, on the flip side though |
| 06:47.03 | Amarande | pixels from games of that era are HUGE |
| 06:47.10 | Amarande | if you can't click the wrong pixel, you probably don't deserve to live LOL |
| 06:47.20 | ZorbaTHut | that's not quite the point I'm making, however |
| 06:47.32 | Amarande | especially on a modern LCD monitor where things are so pixelated that you can easily tell the edges of any given pixel in 320x200. :D |
| 06:47.35 | ZorbaTHut | the point I'm making is that they instantly and thoroughly penalized the player if the player couldn't read the game designer's mind |
| 06:47.45 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, look through some walkthroughs for Gabriel Knight 2 |
| 06:47.45 | Amarande | Zorba: that was actually an improvement, though |
| 06:47.47 | ZorbaTHut | they're *ridiculous* |
| 06:47.51 | Amarande | before that, we had Zork and its ilk |
| 06:47.56 | ZorbaTHut | nobody would ever have gotten any of those puzzles |
| 06:48.03 | sylvanaar | Zork! |
| 06:48.06 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, Zork was pretty awful as well in that regards |
| 06:48.15 | ZorbaTHut | the first one was generally sane, but they went downhill fast |
| 06:48.19 | Amarande | In Sierra games, if you can't read the game designer's mind, you instantly and thoroughly die and are told, in the words of Space Quest XII, that you were a real pantload |
| 06:48.20 | ZorbaTHut | there's a reason people don't make games like that anymore ;) |
| 06:48.52 | sylvanaar | yeah, graphics |
| 06:48.54 | ZorbaTHut | fundamentally I do feel like games are getting better - yeah, you compare the best games of 1995 to the average game of today, and the 1995 game might win |
| 06:49.02 | ZorbaTHut | but compare average to average, or best to best, and there's really no comparison |
| 06:49.10 | Amarande | In Zork type games, if you can't read the game designer's mind, you end up making one tiny little mistake that causes you to aimlessly wander around for the next forty hours completely unaware that you have already spoilt any chance of solving it, yet also aware that you could survive indefinitely nonetheless |
| 06:49.15 | ZorbaTHut | the ten-year-old games get obliterated. |
| 06:49.58 | Amarande | however, these days, I tend to think that the game companies focus too much on graphical capability improvements to the exclusion of other stuff |
| 06:50.07 | Amarande | and thus, do not improve things as much as they should, if at all in some cases |
| 06:50.08 | ZorbaTHut | I think a lot do, but I think that was true 10 years ago also |
| 06:50.19 | ZorbaTHut | graphics have been a huge force ever since we had graphics :P |
| 06:50.26 | Amarande | Zorba: not as much back then though |
| 06:50.35 | Amarande | Back then, you saw that people on average had this and that machine capability |
| 06:50.38 | Amarande | You built the game to fit the machine |
| 06:50.48 | ZorbaTHut | they still do that, barring Crysis |
| 06:50.55 | sylvanaar | you build machines for the game that you were going to run on them |
| 06:50.56 | Amarande | These days, nVidia and ATI pay game devs to push the limits of everything so that people build the machine to fit the game |
| 06:51.17 | ZorbaTHut | game devs provide high-end options, but the mid- and low-end options still work |
| 06:51.22 | Amarande | though I wonder how much longer they can really go on doing that |
| 06:51.22 | sylvanaar | if it even works |
| 06:51.25 | ZorbaTHut | WoW runs on ridiculously obsolete hardware |
| 06:51.30 | ZorbaTHut | most games run on quite old hardware, in fact |
| 06:51.33 | Amarande | since it seems like just about everything significant in terms of graphics rendering has already been done by this point |
| 06:51.50 | ZorbaTHut | they don't look as good, but that's sort of to be expected |
| 06:52.01 | Amarande | can you really think of a new feature that graphics cards could really use at this point, at least until holographic true-3D displays are invented? |
| 06:52.05 | ZorbaTHut | (the general recent stagnation of CPU speed helps in this regard, of course) |
| 06:52.06 | sylvanaar | some of those multi-gpu technologies... |
| 06:52.14 | sylvanaar | ...worthless |
| 06:52.20 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, more through HDR would be quite nice |
| 06:52.22 | Amarande | sylvanaar: that's more a performance improvement than truly adding new features, anyway |
| 06:52.26 | ZorbaTHut | raytracing would be good, although it's impractical |
| 06:52.42 | sylvanaar | feature #1: Stable Drivers |
| 06:52.44 | Amarande | and as there has not been a really significant increase for a good while now in the usual resolutions used by users ... |
| 06:52.46 | ZorbaTHut | offloading further features to the GPU, like more physics and collision code, would be awesome |
| 06:52.51 | Amarande | sylvanaar: never. |
| 06:52.56 | Arrowmaster | you will never get them to push much more than they currently are for a while i bet |
| 06:52.57 | Amarande | sylvanaar: DOUBLE never with Windows 7 coming out. |
| 06:53.00 | Amarande | You know what Windows 7 has? |
| 06:53.02 | Arrowmaster | because they cant |
| 06:53.08 | ZorbaTHut | personally I'm hoping high-DPI screens show up soon, and of course that will involve a big hefty increase in GPU requirements |
| 06:53.21 | sylvanaar | leprocy |
| 06:53.32 | Amarande | sylv: Windows 7 will have, as part of the content protection schemes included to appease Hollywood and the RIAA |
| 06:53.41 | Arrowmaster | otherwise their console versions will require new consoles that actually have a decent amount of ram in them to keep up on low settings |
| 06:53.46 | Amarande | the ability for Microsoft to *unilaterally disable drivers* |
| 06:53.46 | ZorbaTHut | they *finally* added geometry shaders, but I'm not sure how capable they are - the PS2 vector processor could create geometry on the fly, I'm not *entirely* sure geometry shaders can do that yet |
| 06:53.54 | ZorbaTHut | there's a list of things GPUs could add. I could probably come up with more. ;) |
| 06:53.57 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: vista has that |
| 06:54.27 | Amarande | I would not be surprised if eventually, nVidia and ATI take advantage of that to force people to constantly upgrade, which would mean making any given version stable also against the business plan |
| 06:54.33 | sylvanaar | haha, get used to it. until they find a better way DRM is here to stay |
| 06:54.42 | Amarande | If I was a Machiavellian graphics card company? |
| 06:54.52 | ZorbaTHut | I highly doubt that'll happen. Even Microsoft isn't stupid enough for that. |
| 06:55.05 | Arrowmaster | which is why im never using vista or windows7 |
| 06:55.18 | sylvanaar | i think you will saturate your bus given enough GPU trhoughput |
| 06:55.33 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, luckily pci-express is designed to be extremely expandable |
| 06:55.48 | Amarande | I'd, whenever coming out with a new major edition of graphics cards, conveniently design the next set of drivers (that support that edition of graphics cards) to conveniently fail to meet Microsoft's DRM certification for the older cards |
| 06:55.58 | ZorbaTHut | anyway, load all the stuff onto the GPU RAM and it doesn't need to touch main memory at all |
| 06:56.21 | sylvanaar | ZorbaTHut nice fantasy imo |
| 06:56.27 | Amarande | in other words, people update their drivers to fix necessary issues, and then find they MUST upgrade their card, because the drivers get disabled for the old cards because they are no longer DRM certified ... |
| 06:56.43 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, which part, the one that's in the pci-x specs, or the one that people have been doing for years? :P |
| 06:57.26 | Amarande | sylvanaar, there's times when I have been known to suggest that rights are an anathema to freedom |
| 06:57.34 | Amarande | most people do not seem to grasp that notion at all though :| |
| 06:57.51 | Amarande | In a *true* free world, there are *no rights* |
| 06:58.03 | sylvanaar | Amarande at age X i stopped caring. |
| 06:58.17 | Amarande | this is 100% and pure logic, really |
| 06:58.21 | sylvanaar | because it was cheaper |
| 06:58.55 | Amarande | Any given right demands an ever expanding web of restrictions in order to ensure that its infringement is prohibited, therefore, rights are the very antithesis of freedom |
| 06:59.03 | Amarande | yet, so many people believe that rights are the -foundation- of a free world |
| 06:59.09 | Amarande | it's weird. |
| 06:59.32 | sylvanaar | ZorbaTHut some people have had success. Preloading the GPU ram on 2-4 cards seems unworkable |
| 06:59.32 | ZorbaTHut | on the other hand, losing rights also loses freedoms |
| 06:59.45 | Arrowmaster | sylvanaar: thats not possible |
| 06:59.47 | Amarande | I guess it's also a different sense of freedom, too |
| 06:59.49 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, I would argue that preloading the GPU ram on 2-4 cards is *necessary* |
| 06:59.58 | sylvanaar | ok |
| 06:59.59 | ZorbaTHut | you certainly don't reload 2gb of textures every frame |
| 06:59.59 | Amarande | by "freedom" I normally tend to think "the freedom _to_ XYZ" |
| 07:00.06 | Arrowmaster | all the multicard stuff out completely ignores the ram on anything but the main card |
| 07:00.10 | Amarande | whereas, rights are all about, normally, "the freedom _not to_ (be) XYZ('d)" |
| 07:00.25 | ZorbaTHut | perhaps the initial load takes a bit longer (although pci express had better have multicast or equivalent by now, or that'll suck), but it's absolutely required |
| 07:00.48 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, but the two are the same. "the freedom to live my life" = "the freedom to not be shot by robbers" |
| 07:02.03 | Amarande | Zorba: sometimes they clash badly, though |
| 07:02.06 | Amarande | copyright being the classic example |
| 07:02.23 | ZorbaTHut | yes, they do. It's a difficult balance. |
| 07:02.26 | Amarande | "the freedom to use things I purchased as I wish" vs. "the freedom to know that things I made are protected against being distributed without my permission" |
| 07:02.37 | ZorbaTHut | There's no easy or clear answer - sometimes there are mutually exclusive freedoms. |
| 07:02.39 | Amarande | I'm pretty sure that battle comes to fail no matter what you do |
| 07:02.49 | ZorbaTHut | And you have to define which ones are more "valuable". Which opens a whole new can of worms. |
| 07:03.00 | sylvanaar | my time > whatever else |
| 07:03.11 | Amarande | sylvanaar: that can be extended |
| 07:03.40 | Amarande | in the modern society, the basic philosophy tends to come down to "Ich uber alles" |
| 07:03.41 | sylvanaar | ok |
| 07:03.52 | Amarande | in other words: my (anything) > * |
| 07:03.57 | sylvanaar | stimmt doch! |
| 07:03.58 | Codayus | There is a meaningful distinction between "positive rights" and "negative rights". That seems to be kind of what your getting at. |
| 07:04.13 | Amarande | Codayus: indeed |
| 07:04.32 | Amarande | and there seems to be an insane in many cases notion that the negative rights are virtually always more important |
| 07:04.49 | ZorbaTHut | I am off to bed, I believe. g'night all |
| 07:04.58 | Amarande | Night Zorba |
| 07:04.59 | sylvanaar | my time > money (since i have an income) > whatever else I can use money for to obtain more time |
| 07:05.44 | sylvanaar | nn ZorbaTHut |
| 07:05.56 | Codayus | I'm not sure it's insane. I think its more that theirs widespread belief that most of the negative rights under discussion are valid, whereas many people see many or all positive rights as not valid. |
| 07:06.19 | Amarande | How can the negative rights be more valid than the positive ones, though? |
| 07:06.35 | Amarande | Are not the positive rights generally the ones whose exercise we consider to be 'the things that make life worth living'? |
| 07:06.39 | sylvanaar | mathmatically? |
| 07:06.45 | sylvanaar | sorry |
| 07:06.47 | sylvanaar | had to |
| 07:07.01 | Codayus | Well, one popular negative right is the right to work. It's hard to find people who argue that's not a right, and that you can be prevented from working. |
| 07:07.04 | sylvanaar | ok |
| 07:07.24 | Codayus | A positive equivalent is the right to a job. In many countries only a small minority thinks this is a valid right. |
| 07:07.27 | sylvanaar | the simplest explaination is Pascals Theorum |
| 07:07.45 | Amarande | Of course, we can also use WoW as a little example of the effect of negative vs. positive |
| 07:07.59 | Codayus | If you think a right is pernicious, silly, and has been made up out of whole cloth...then you probably don't think its important. :-) |
| 07:08.05 | WobWork | I thought the simplest explainatoin is occam's razor =) |
| 07:08.28 | Amarande | perhaps the reason the negative is dwelt on is that generally speaking, unlike positive energy, there's a limit to how much negative energy you can take and survive |
| 07:08.49 | Amarande | It doesn't matter if you have a T9 geared healer next to you who can heal you for 40,000 damage if you only have 20,000 hp :) |
| 07:08.51 | sylvanaar | Pascal is a bout to open a a can of whoopass on occam, and he aint falling for that razor trick |
| 07:09.31 | Amarande | if we think of life as taking interwoven packets of negative and positive ... |
| 07:09.48 | Amarande | the problem with focusing entirely on the positive, thinking only of its strength then would be too many cases of the type |
| 07:09.52 | Amarande | "intermediate state is not stable" |
| 07:09.53 | Amarande | right? |
| 07:10.10 | sylvanaar | Wobin occoms razore says to take the simplest answer when there is no clear answer |
| 07:10.35 | squidbear | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=113304#post113304 |
| 07:11.07 | Amarande | If we represent life state in a number, where 0 is a neutral state of living, we could say have two sequences |
| 07:11.12 | Codayus | Negative and positive in the sense of rights refer to action and inaction, so your comments regarding energy are...not really relevent. *shrug* |
| 07:11.28 | Amarande | +10 -20 +30, and 0 -2 +1 |
| 07:11.33 | sylvanaar | pascal says take the one that has the most prevention of negative outcome while still encouraging positive |
| 07:11.55 | Amarande | on the surface, you'd think the first sequence is better, since you are 30x better off in the end ... but if, say, -11 or below represents death ... |
| 07:12.28 | Amarande | Codayus: I was thinking more in the sense of positive being "right to produce a beneficial outcome" |
| 07:12.35 | sylvanaar | ook |
| 07:12.38 | Amarande | vs. negative being "right to be protected from a negative situation/outcome" |
| 07:12.59 | Amarande | in other words, good as active good, vs. good as "protected from evil" |
| 07:13.02 | sylvanaar | pascal: Death Penalty, Prisonar - Guilty or Innocent |
| 07:13.40 | sylvanaar | executing: Guilty = 100pts, Executing Innoced = -2000 pts |
| 07:14.12 | Amarande | sylvanaar: the problem is you haven't quantified the 'don't execute' results, which is what society tends to also do |
| 07:14.31 | Amarande | there are sadly, all too many elements who for some crimes would rate executing the innocent at -2000, but letting the guilty go free at -4000 |
| 07:14.38 | sylvanaar | executing: Free Guilty = -500pts, Free Innocet = 500 pts |
| 07:14.40 | Codayus | Amarande: However, the terms are well defined. A negative right is one which compels inaction. A positive right is one which compels action. |
| 07:14.52 | sylvanaar | only 1 of those 4 can happen |
| 07:15.02 | Amarande | Codayus: which really comes to the same in a philosophical sense |
| 07:15.13 | Amarande | you grant a negative right in order to compel refraining from an action that is seen as damaging |
| 07:15.25 | Amarande | while you grant a positive right in order to push people on the path to actively promoting good |
| 07:16.02 | Amarande | In the end, it could also be said to be, what's more important, preventing damage to what already is, or more efficiently creating new? |
| 07:16.35 | Codayus | Mmm. In the context of the job example earlier, a negative right (the right to work) compels people to not stop me from finding a job. That allows me to produce a new beneficial outcome - me having a job. :-) |
| 07:16.36 | sylvanaar | it was an example |
| 07:17.10 | Amarande | although, this also depends on the outcome of another philosophical notion |
| 07:17.14 | sylvanaar | it was origanally used to "prove" the existance of god. |
| 07:17.19 | Amarande | completely unmitigated, who's stronger? pure good, or pure evil? |
| 07:17.21 | Codayus | The positive version - ultimately - means that you are compelled to offer me a job (possibly through the intermediary of the state). That doesn't fit into your framework very well at all, really. |
| 07:17.49 | Torhal | Now I understand why Phanx doesn't frequent IRC. She would be compelled to moderate the discussion and split it into different channels. |
| 07:17.54 | Torhal | :D |
| 07:17.57 | sylvanaar | oh man |
| 07:18.11 | sylvanaar | he needs like 3 hours to make a post |
| 07:18.13 | Amarande | are good and evil *actually balanced* |
| 07:18.21 | Torhal | sylvanaar: She |
| 07:18.33 | Amarande | or is evil actually stronger, as people fear, therefore its mitigation is the first order even if it mostly hamstrings the ability of good to expand? |
| 07:18.40 | sylvanaar | well, that explains the walls of text |
| 07:19.16 | Torhal | Hehehe |
| 07:22.05 | sylvanaar | god i read so many books about this in college |
| 07:23.27 | Amarande | of course, there's also the matter that the universe itself has a certain favoritism for evil |
| 07:23.50 | Amarande | after all: good generally involves keeping closed systems ordered or making them more orderly than before |
| 07:23.59 | Amarande | the universe's reply to that is DO NOT WANT |
| 07:26.38 | sylvanaar | "goodness is not its own reward" in many cases |
| 07:27.29 | sylvanaar | i need testers for this rewrite of failbot - anyone want to volunteer |
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| 07:34.02 | sylvanaar | ok, i still a looking for a ML addon which supports "Send tells" instead of DKP or rolling |
| 07:35.29 | sylvanaar | and traks loot - eqdkp export forme |
| 07:39.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Uh |
| 07:39.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Wow |
| 07:39.42 | ScytheBlade1 | That's an exact match for what I've been writing for my own guild |
| 07:40.08 | sylvanaar | what is |
| 07:40.11 | ScytheBlade1 | It's not remotely finished but it's funny how that worked out :P |
| 07:40.14 | ScytheBlade1 | 02:34 < sylvanaar> ok, i still a looking for a ML addon which supports "Send tells" instead of DKP or rolling |
| 07:40.38 | sylvanaar | oh, yeah, somone mentioned having one last week - i lost the log |
| 07:41.56 | sylvanaar | how do i access the logs from last week? |
| 07:42.02 | ScytheBlade1 | ~logs |
| 07:42.03 | purl | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. |
| 07:43.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=narg@125-239-25-98.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:46.15 | KanadiaN | is there a place where i can test pattrens for string.match like there is for regex? |
| 07:47.53 | sylvanaar | loin #lusnoy |
| 07:48.09 | sylvanaar | loin #lusnmoy |
| 07:48.18 | sylvanaar | whatever |
| 07:48.32 | sylvanaar | join loo ah bot |
| 07:48.36 | Cheatcakes | what's a good buff placement mod? |
| 07:49.29 | sylvanaar | clique |
| 07:49.38 | Cheatcakes | thanks |
| 07:49.59 | sylvanaar | its not a buff mod |
| 07:50.11 | sylvanaar | just a click=casting mod |
| 07:50.45 | Cheatcakes | ohhh that's not what I need... I'm looking for a way to reposition my current buffs and debuffs I have cast on my character |
| 07:52.06 | Codayus | I use Elkkano's BuffBars, but that's probably more than your looking for. |
| 07:52.13 | Codayus | Elkano, even |
| 07:52.28 | Cheatcakes | I'll take a look |
| 07:52.46 | sylvanaar | ah |
| 07:52.53 | sylvanaar | i just use xperl |
| 07:53.20 | Cheatcakes | I do too, but the buffs can't be positioned the way I want them to be |
| 07:53.26 | Cheatcakes | unless I'm overlooking something |
| 07:53.54 | sylvanaar | they can be big, adn split top/bottom |
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| 08:04.53 | Shirik | night all |
| 08:07.42 | Tekkub | okey I feel stupid |
| 08:07.56 | Tekkub | wasn't getting right-click menus on unitframes in combat |
| 08:08.13 | Tekkub | think it's my menu-changing mdo tainting.. disable.. nada |
| 08:08.22 | Tekkub | think it's my UF.. disable.. nada... |
| 08:08.59 | Tekkub | oh, whait a sec, way back when I was a holy pally I bound right-click to a talented spell I don't have as a retardin in Clique.... |
| 08:09.06 | Tekkub | *mumble* |
| 08:09.49 | Amarande | you went ret? |
| 08:09.49 | Amarande | :| |
| 08:09.56 | Tekkub | leveling, duh |
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| 08:10.15 | Amarande | how is ret for leveling now? I remember it generally being best to level prot during BC |
| 08:10.47 | Tekkub | been wonderful so far |
| 08:11.00 | Tekkub | Art of War basically keeps me healed with instantz :) |
| 08:11.03 | Amarande | I switched my lock over from aff to demo after WotLK |
| 08:11.11 | Amarande | no mana issues? |
| 08:11.27 | Tekkub | I always use seal/judge wisdom, so no |
| 08:17.50 | Tem | woot |
| 08:17.55 | Tem | just got Chaos Theory |
| 08:19.28 | AnduinLothar | lvling ret's pretty zmode |
| 08:20.44 | Amarande | hmm. must have changed with WotLK |
| 08:20.51 | Amarande | because during BC, I remember leveling my pally |
| 08:21.03 | Amarande | I was leveling prot, and at one point in particular, I remember meeting up with a pally who was leveling ret |
| 08:21.15 | Amarande | we were in Dustwallow, where you have to do all those quests with the black dragonkin |
| 08:21.48 | Amarande | I was chewing through dragonkin with ease, while he kept struggling, and ended up grouping with me after he either died and I rezzed him, or he got obviously close to dying |
| 08:22.12 | Amarande | even after we grouped, I think I spent more time healing him than actually fighting much |
| 08:30.06 | Tekkub | you really can't make a reliable comparison at that level |
| 08:30.51 | Tekkub | now, say 61 and beyond, where you're deep in your talent tree, starting to get the nice new spells, and it's very likely that you'll both be wearing the same gear from quest rewards... |
| 08:31.00 | Tekkub | there you could make a good comparison |
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| 08:32.08 | Amarande | my impression seems to be that prot dies a lot less, while ret might deal a bit more damage |
| 08:32.35 | Amarande | actually, that's probably a good question regarding leveling |
| 08:32.39 | Tekkub | I've really only had death issues on group quests, but then I also normally just skip those |
| 08:32.42 | Amarande | exactly how much leveling speed is lost each time you die |
| 08:32.54 | Tekkub | even with trey, he's kinda a half-assed healer and I'm a half-assed tank |
| 08:33.27 | Tekkub | if he could swap to resto and I to prot for those, we'd be fine |
| 08:33.34 | Tekkub | but... 2-spec still not here |
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| 09:02.09 | Amarande | hmm. |
| 09:02.15 | Amarande | how much leeway is Horde given for Loremaster of EK? |
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| 09:07.22 | Tekkub | I think my bank in kinking out on me... http://www.flickr.com/photos/26681170@N03/3140079281/ |
| 09:07.26 | Tekkub | no, Idid not write that in |
| 09:09.22 | Industrial | uhuh. |
| 09:13.27 | Amarande | Tekkub: Am I going to feel the pain of not being able to get those quests in the crimson courier chain if I don't do them before the wrath gate chain? |
| 09:13.32 | Amarande | as far as EK loremaster goes, anyway? |
| 09:14.23 | Tekkub | I see you typing but all I read is "blah blah blah" |
| 09:15.14 | Amarande | Tekkub: when you finish the Wrath Gate chain as Horde, Varimathras is phased out of the game for you |
| 09:15.28 | Amarande | which means you can't do any of his quests, of which one counts for EK loremaster and is a chain quest |
| 09:16.02 | Tekkub | kk |
| 09:16.42 | Amarande | I'm wondering if EK loremaster is tight enough that those would be missed |
| 09:16.58 | Tekkub | I thought they were relazing the numbers on those |
| 09:17.06 | Amarande | I heard for Kalimdor, haven't heard anything about EK |
| 09:17.10 | Tekkub | but worrying over 5 quests seems a bit retardoid |
| 09:17.13 | Amarande | and in EK's case for Horde, it's probably going to get HARDER |
| 09:17.17 | Amarande | er, wait |
| 09:17.19 | Amarande | was that kalimdor |
| 09:17.22 | Amarande | yeah, that was kalimdor |
| 09:17.30 | Amarande | EK's going to get easier |
| 09:17.52 | Amarande | something to do with that currently, Silverpine Forest is apparently part of Kalimdor. :) |
| 09:17.53 | Arrowmaster | i could go get EK loremaster right now, i think i only need 10 quests but i know of tons i could still do |
| 09:18.01 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: horde or alliance? |
| 09:18.04 | Arrowmaster | horde |
| 09:18.11 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: did you quest silverpine as a lowbie? |
| 09:18.15 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 09:18.21 | Arrowmaster | but i did at 80 |
| 09:18.24 | Arrowmaster | or 70 |
| 09:18.28 | Amarande | well, if you quested silverpine at all, you should have the achievement when the patch hits |
| 09:18.43 | Amarande | right now, for some odd reason Silverpine is being counted as Kalimdor instead of EK |
| 09:18.48 | Arrowmaster | i have like 100 to go for kalimdor |
| 09:25.24 | Amarande | that chain also explains another thing I've frequently noticed in Alliance raids on UC |
| 09:25.32 | Amarande | apparently, Varimathras disappears for Alliance, too |
| 09:25.40 | Amarande | which has very, very odd effects |
| 09:25.55 | Amarande | namely, if you haven't done the chain yourself, and witness an Alliance attack on Sylvanas, you notice Vari just standing there like a lump |
| 09:26.10 | Arrowmaster | can you pull him? |
| 09:26.42 | Amarande | once he's phased, you cannot interact in any way with him, including pulling him |
| 09:26.54 | Arrowmaster | i mean when hes not phased |
| 09:26.54 | Amarande | so if the entire ally raid is phased, he doesn't enter the battle at all |
| 09:27.02 | Amarande | yeah, when he's not phased, he pulls with Sylvanas |
| 09:27.07 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 09:27.39 | Arrowmaster | would laugh so hard at the pug that ends up all the tanks have done the questline but the healers havent |
| 09:28.02 | Arrowmaster | 'GET IT OFF!' |
| 09:28.05 | Arrowmaster | 'what?' |
| 09:28.07 | Arrowmaster | 'GET IT OFF!' |
| 09:28.10 | Arrowmaster | 'what?' |
| 09:28.57 | Amarande | heh |
| 09:29.06 | Amarande | you mean kind of like the problems of old with pets and certain quest mobs? |
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| 09:32.46 | ecstasia | wait, people actually grouped for that quest? |
| 09:34.38 | Amarande | ecstasia: we were discussing the effects on an Alliance Undercity raid of some, but not all players having completed the Wrath Gate questline |
| 09:34.59 | Amarande | once that quest line is complete, the character can never again see, or interact in any way with Varimathras in Undercity, he phases out permanently for that character |
| 09:35.34 | ecstasia | ack |
| 09:35.46 | Amarande | I however also remember, there were some quests that required you to have a certain buff or item equipped in order for quest mobs to be visible |
| 09:36.01 | ecstasia | quite |
| 09:36.09 | ecstasia | like those SMV quests |
| 09:36.15 | ecstasia | or the skettis one |
| 09:36.17 | Amarande | and also recall reading that in such other quests, frequently there'd be glitches where if you were a pet class, the pet wouldn't be able to see or help you with said mobs |
| 09:36.40 | Amarande | and so, I was reminded of that when thinking of the UC raid thing |
| 09:38.02 | AnduinLothar | lol... ressed from ghost into nexus made me res into westfall... gg |
| 09:38.23 | selckin | happened to me aswel |
| 09:38.27 | Amarande | fail |
| 09:38.38 | ecstasia | lol |
| 09:39.08 | AnduinLothar | and they summoned me back... to westfall |
| 09:39.29 | ecstasia | poor thing |
| 09:39.33 | ecstasia | westfall is the pits |
| 09:39.52 | ecstasia | though i've developed a new hatred of red ridge... |
| 09:40.13 | ecstasia | yay for levelling up mining for like 75 points there on my sekrit DK |
| 09:50.34 | WobWork | ecstasia: there's the cave in wetlands that you get the ore for that redrige quest? |
| 09:50.50 | WobWork | you can sit in that cave and grind 100 levels of mining =P |
| 09:51.11 | WobWork | well, either it's bloodstone or rethben |
| 09:51.14 | WobWork | can't recall |
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| 10:01.09 | Codayus | Wetlands is bloodstone |
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| 10:09.19 | Industrial | arathi is bloodstone |
| 10:09.39 | Industrial | redridge is rethban |
| 10:19.42 | Wobin | hm |
| 10:19.47 | Wobin | what's the one in wetlands then? |
| 10:20.31 | Wobin | ah incendite |
| 10:20.42 | Wobin | er Incendicite |
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| 10:33.21 | Wobin | :O |
| 10:33.22 | Wobin | http://www.bbqaddicts.com/blog/recipes/bacon-explosion/ |
| 10:33.25 | Wobin | :O |
| 10:34.48 | Wobin | On the one hand, that makes me feel a little sick |
| 10:34.59 | Wobin | on the other, my mouth is watering at thinking about how it'd taste. |
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| 10:38.46 | Corrodias | i like the taste of bacon, but the fact that it's like 50% saturated fat is a turnoff |
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| 10:55.52 | Wobin | Corrodias: the point of bacon is that you're not supposed to think about that |
| 10:56.18 | Corrodias | thus, i don't like bacon. :( |
| 11:00.06 | Wobin | sylvanaar: BTW, referring to a previous conversation, Occam's Razor posits that an explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis |
| 11:00.21 | Wobin | (straight from wikipedia =P) |
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| 11:02.14 | Corrodias | ah, that's not what people usually say it is |
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| 11:05.33 | Wobin | yeah, that's what I'd originally thought too |
| 11:05.58 | Wobin | You -could- boil it down to "The simplest solution is the correct one" |
| 11:06.09 | Wobin | but that doesn't take into account the second part of that defintion |
| 11:06.27 | Wobin | you discard the other solutions, but for a reason =) |
| 11:09.31 | Corrodias | in fact, what this seems to be saying is that (said a certain way) your explanation should be as simple as it can, not that the explanation should be the simplest of those that you can come up with |
| 11:19.00 | nevcairiel | the simplest explanation is usually the first you come up with, anyway =P |
| 11:19.10 | Corrodias | "magic" :) |
| 11:21.39 | Wobin | hm, I don't like hopping on the commerical flight to Ogrim's Hammer then afking the flight |
| 11:21.56 | Wobin | You often end up standing in midair as the boat leaves you behind =P |
| 11:24.22 | nevcairiel | that never happend for me on the skybreaker |
| 11:27.57 | foxlit | the skybreaker flies in circles, eh? |
| 11:29.27 | nevcairiel | much like ogrims hammer |
| 11:31.02 | foxlit | Interesting. And you say there's a flight there? :) |
| 11:31.08 | Wobin | it all depends on how the chopper despawns |
| 11:31.20 | Wobin | you grab it from the bloke next to the door at Krasus' landing |
| 11:32.54 | Wobin | I can't believe I'm mining saronite |
| 11:33.00 | Wobin | for the crystalized elements |
| 11:33.19 | foxlit | You should be sitting on stockpiles of shadow/earth already, tbh |
| 11:33.33 | Wobin | it's the only thing worth it |
| 11:33.40 | Wobin | saronite ore is so worthless |
| 11:33.46 | foxlit | Go Wintergrasp? |
| 11:34.11 | Wobin | why? |
| 11:34.24 | foxlit | Elementals. |
| 11:34.36 | Wobin | meh |
| 11:34.39 | Wobin | icecrown is easier |
| 11:34.53 | Wobin | And chances to get titanium |
| 11:35.01 | Wobin | plus herbs do sell well at least |
| 11:35.21 | foxlit | Fine, don't go Wintergrasp :) |
| 11:35.26 | foxlit | More stuffs for me :P |
| 11:35.26 | Wobin | hehe |
| 11:35.35 | Wobin | pvp is enough headache |
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| 11:39.28 | Wobin | is there a mailbox in icecrown? |
| 11:41.18 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@125.34.51.112) |
| 11:41.58 | foxlit | How else would Arthas get his fan mail? |
| 11:43.08 | Corrodias | :D |
| 11:43.58 | Industrial | "Dude I totally like how you like look cool and stuff and like woa dude keep it cool ttyl" |
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| 11:44.35 | foxlit | You know, quests with that kid had a somewhat anticlimactic ending |
| 11:45.32 | foxlit | And served little purpose other than to add Fordring to the already long list of NPCs we're going to see perish in Icecrown Citadel |
| 11:45.38 | Corrodias | you know what wow needs? more opportunities for panty shots. |
| 11:47.40 | foxlit | Hm, actually. Kill Old God 2.0 in 3.1, and what's left plaguing the world for 3.2? |
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| 12:03.34 | squidbear | hi #wowuidev |
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| 12:19.38 | foxlit | Wonder what warranted giving Stonard level 65 guards |
| 12:26.25 | sacarasc | annoyance of the few alliance people who quest there |
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| 12:48.29 | Fisker- | your mom foxlit |
| 12:49.17 | Industrial | foxlit: yeah those should be 55 imho |
| 12:51.39 | Fisker- | they should be 85 imo |
| 12:52.00 | Fisker- | So when you enter from Blasted Lands you get aggroed by them |
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| 13:26.13 | Adys | is there a way to know if the BoP confirmation box is currently shown? |
| 13:27.26 | ReAn | i <3 george carlin |
| 13:28.33 | Industrial | rip |
| 13:33.26 | Adys | Mikk: you there? |
| 13:34.34 | Adys | bah someone was trying to make an addon to yank the BoP popup box the other day dont remember who |
| 13:37.53 | nevcairiel | addons like that should be forbidden |
| 13:38.08 | ReAn | yank? |
| 13:38.12 | ReAn | like remove it? |
| 13:40.17 | Adys | nevcairiel: fishing old ironjaw and losing it twice is annoying |
| 13:40.59 | Adys | either way a true/false check on whether the bop box is shown is enough for me |
| 13:40.59 | nevcairiel | thats your own stupidity =P |
| 13:41.07 | Adys | how? |
| 13:41.12 | Adys | it was fixed during a patch |
| 13:41.27 | Adys | and then was reverted for god knows what reason |
| 13:42.08 | Adys | when you're doing like 5k casts you dont exactly feel like doublechecking every single cast |
| 13:42.34 | nevcairiel | i just auto-loot all fish |
| 13:42.38 | nevcairiel | and when i see a popup |
| 13:42.40 | nevcairiel | voila |
| 13:42.50 | Adys | .. so do i |
| 13:43.09 | Adys | doubleclick to cast is a habbit |
| 13:44.04 | Adys | its not about stupidity its a concern, whats stupid of me is having been too lazy to fix it the first time |
| 13:44.25 | Adys | either way that doesnt warrant being forbidden or something, not until blizz fixes it themselves |
| 13:45.22 | nevcairiel | i can see it for fishing, but people are lazy in generall and use it in raids and ninja your loot by accident |
| 13:45.35 | Adys | i understand that |
| 13:46.07 | nevcairiel | anyway, they should really disable the popup when you are ungrouped =P |
| 13:47.22 | zenzelezz | agreed |
| 13:49.22 | Adys | StaticPopup_Visible("LOOT_BIND") |
| 13:58.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal_ (n=Torhal@74-130-66-145.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 14:06.27 | Wobin | Is anyone noticing Ingvar bugging on heroics? |
| 14:08.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Pizik (n=Blank@planeshift/gamemaster/Pizik) |
| 14:12.02 | zenzelezz | bugging how? |
| 14:12.19 | Wobin | he double crushes |
| 14:12.24 | Wobin | The second time without an animation |
| 14:12.40 | Wobin | ie, he winds up, I move out of the way, he does his little jumpy smash |
| 14:12.46 | Wobin | I move back into position |
| 14:12.50 | Wobin | Then about half a second later |
| 14:12.53 | Wobin | *boom* |
| 14:12.57 | Wobin | I eat a crush damage |
| 14:13.26 | Wobin | no wind up |
| 14:13.28 | Wobin | no warning |
| 14:13.43 | Pizik | That means I can blame by bad timing on that when tanking? ;op |
| 14:14.04 | Wobin | probably =) |
| 14:14.13 | Wobin | I dunno, it might be a once off with that raid instance |
| 14:14.32 | Wobin | very irritating though |
| 14:14.37 | Wobin | since it's such a long run back |
| 14:14.50 | Wobin | however, I was the only one who died after the first attempt =P |
| 14:14.59 | Wobin | since he stops to smash and shout |
| 14:15.10 | Pizik | Who are we talking about? ;op |
| 14:15.12 | Wobin | the rest of the party just run to the instance entrance =P |
| 14:15.17 | Wobin | Ingvar |
| 14:15.23 | Pizik | good, thought so |
| 14:15.24 | Wobin | Heroic UK |
| 14:15.39 | Pizik | I have had times when I thought I was well clear, but still got smacked |
| 14:16.00 | Pizik | only done it on normal though |
| 14:16.10 | Wobin | heroic is the same |
| 14:16.13 | Wobin | he just hits harder =P |
| 14:16.42 | Wobin | It's not a healing intensive fight, really |
| 14:16.44 | Wobin | it's a technical one |
| 14:17.05 | Wobin | if everyone avoids the smashes and the axes, there's not that much burst damage to deal with |
| 14:17.19 | Wobin | oh and LoS the shout |
| 14:17.27 | Wobin | (Not that I've ever healed UK) |
| 14:19.10 | Pizik | all goes to hell if the healer gets silenced |
| 14:19.16 | Pizik | not a fun one for pallies |
| 14:20.08 | Fisker- | Wobin is spamming :( |
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| 14:31.13 | foxlit | "Your Fish got away." |
| 14:33.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:33.23 | foxlit | I'm so blaming it on Fisker-. |
| 14:38.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@pD957E335.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:50.07 | Fisker- | Then you're blaming the right guy |
| 15:18.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-157-18-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 15:19.11 | batrick | electronics are so nice during the winter |
| 15:19.24 | batrick | i sit at my desk and am surrounded by their comforting warmth |
| 15:19.34 | Wobin | http://blog.danielwellman.com/2008/10/real-life-tron-on-an-apple-iigs.html |
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| 15:21.43 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:26.59 | Mikk | Adys: There's addons that autoclick the BoP box while you're not grouped. |
| 15:27.06 | Mikk | Which seems to fit the bill for your fishing |
| 15:27.23 | Adys | Mikk: havent seen any |
| 15:27.26 | Adys | altho |
| 15:27.35 | Adys | if StaticPopup_Visible("LOOT_BIND") then return print("Loot before recasting!") end |
| 15:27.42 | Adys | does the trick for now |
| 15:28.06 | Mikk | you stuck that in the recast code for the fishing addon? |
| 15:28.10 | Adys | yes |
| 15:28.18 | Mikk | ah cool, yeah that'll work dandy |
| 15:28.28 | nevcairiel | you should print before returning =P |
| 15:28.34 | Mikk | that works too |
| 15:28.41 | Mikk | he's returning the result of the print :) |
| 15:28.44 | nevcairiel | ah |
| 15:28.44 | nevcairiel | i see |
| 15:29.05 | Mikk | or no |
| 15:29.06 | Mikk | he isnt |
| 15:29.10 | Mikk | or is he |
| 15:29.11 | Mikk | damnit |
| 15:29.14 | nevcairiel | he is |
| 15:29.31 | Mikk | brainfart - suddenly got it into my head that return wanted parens |
| 15:29.33 | Mikk | but it doesnt |
| 15:29.46 | Mikk | (i just woke up) |
| 15:29.53 | Adys | something wrong with returning prints? |
| 15:29.56 | nevcairiel | you have weird times again |
| 15:29.57 | Adys | been doing that for ages |
| 15:29.58 | Mikk | i do |
| 15:30.15 | Mikk | Adys: no it works fine, if your calling function doesnt go tits-up from suddenly getting the results of the print fed to it |
| 15:30.24 | nevcairiel | print returns stuff? |
| 15:30.36 | Mikk | sod knows? |
| 15:30.47 | nevcairiel | lua> return select("#", print("Fooo")) |
| 15:30.48 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: Fooo, 0 |
| 15:30.49 | Mikk | it's not uncommon to return something silly like the number of characters printed |
| 15:30.57 | Mikk | in various languages |
| 15:31.11 | Adys | lua> s = print("foo"); print(#s) |
| 15:31.12 | lua_bot | Adys: foo, luabot:1: attempt to get length of global 's' (a nil value) |
| 15:31.13 | Mikk | you'll also want to check wow's print, not luabot's print =) |
| 15:31.25 | Adys | same error on wow |
| 15:31.37 | Mikk | aight it returns nothing (right now) |
| 15:32.01 | Mikk | Adys: but that code is ummm non-lua |
| 15:32.08 | Mikk | it's assuming that "s" is a table |
| 15:32.14 | nevcairiel | hm |
| 15:32.22 | nevcairiel | lua> s = "foobar"; return #s |
| 15:32.22 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: 6 |
| 15:32.23 | Mikk | lua> select("#", print("foo")) |
| 15:32.24 | lua_bot | Mikk: foo, 0 |
| 15:32.26 | nevcairiel | or a string |
| 15:32.27 | Adys | lua> print(#"moo") |
| 15:32.28 | lua_bot | Adys: 3 |
| 15:32.31 | Mikk | or a string yeah |
| 15:33.00 | Adys | lua> return #3*3 |
| 15:33.00 | lua_bot | Adys: luabot:1: attempt to get length of a number value |
| 15:33.04 | Adys | bah |
| 15:33.10 | Adys | also s is nil |
| 15:33.15 | Mikk | it is yeah |
| 15:33.18 | Adys | so table/string or not it wouldnt give a nil error |
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| 15:33.36 | Mikk | you're absolutely right about that, i was just pointing out that your lua was flawed :P |
| 15:33.38 | Adys | the only thing id see print returning in a language is the string itself |
| 15:33.53 | Adys | my lua is perfect how dare you criticize it you insolent lower being |
| 15:33.54 | Mikk | orly? go check up printf() in C :) |
| 15:34.17 | Adys | yeah by language i dont mean C |
| 15:34.25 | Mikk | lal |
| 15:34.25 | Adys | (because everyone knows C is not a real language!) |
| 15:34.54 | Mikk | i'd also point out that the definition of some function has nothing to do with language :p |
| 15:35.15 | nevcairiel | PHP also returns an int |
| 15:35.19 | nevcairiel | from printf |
| 15:35.55 | nevcairiel | perl returns a boolean to check for success |
| 15:36.14 | Mikk | and considering how much Lua re-uses of libc i wouldn't have been at all surprised if it also just returned the results of printf |
| 15:36.16 | Mikk | but it doesnt |
| 15:36.18 | Mikk | so never mind! :P |
| 15:37.16 | Adys | python returns the string itself from what i can see |
| 15:37.35 | Adys | at least using print(), i dont know if its different |
| 15:37.43 | Wobin | damnit, http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3123776&bhcd2=1230387338 would make a great gift if they shipped out of the US |
| 15:39.15 | Wobin | lua> return print("blah") |
| 15:39.16 | lua_bot | Wobin: blah |
| 15:41.36 | Mikk | Wobin: that's the bot fooling you. it got a nil return so gave you the stdout instead |
| 15:41.46 | Mikk | lua> return tostring(print("blah")) |
| 15:41.46 | lua_bot | Mikk: blah, luabot:1: bad argument #1 to 'tostring' (value expected) |
| 15:41.48 | Wobin | sneaky bot |
| 15:42.10 | Mikk | lua> return print("blah") or "ZOMG NO RETURN FROM PRINT" |
| 15:42.11 | lua_bot | Mikk: blah, ZOMG NO RETURN FROM PRINT |
| 15:42.35 | nevcairiel | lua> type(print("foo")) |
| 15:42.36 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: foo, luabot:1: bad argument #1 to 'type' (value expected) |
| 15:42.43 | nevcairiel | its just empty |
| 15:42.45 | Mikk | yup |
| 15:43.06 | Mikk | or as the earlier select("#") said: 0 |
| 15:44.25 | Adys | lua> while print("foo") do print("no-return-from-print-contest") end |
| 15:44.26 | lua_bot | Adys: foo |
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| 15:53.54 | Adys | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=7549 any idea where this comes from? |
| 15:58.09 | nevcairiel | Not even armory has a specific source listed |
| 15:58.14 | nevcairiel | very rare world drop, i guess |
| 15:58.23 | Adys | weird |
| 16:02.02 | Wobin | So, I'm transferring a tauren shammy to my server |
| 16:02.06 | Wobin | I need a good name |
| 16:02.46 | Wobin | also, what spec should I level with? |
| 16:02.47 | nevcairiel | Tauren should always have beef or meat in their name |
| 16:02.54 | Wobin | yeah, it's a female tauren |
| 16:03.01 | Wobin | so anything with Cow in the name is a bonus |
| 16:04.42 | zenzelezz | Chainsqueal |
| 16:08.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:08.06 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:08.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Sam-L (n=Sam@cpe-173-88-181-127.neo.res.rr.com) |
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| 16:22.50 | Wobin | anyone a shammy? |
| 16:23.03 | Sam-L | I mean i've played one... |
| 16:23.04 | Sam-L | why |
| 16:23.58 | Wobin | I've just started again on mine |
| 16:24.02 | Wobin | I haven't played her for... years |
| 16:24.12 | Wobin | need advice =) |
| 16:24.19 | Sam-L | ah |
| 16:24.21 | Sam-L | well what kind of shaman |
| 16:24.34 | Wobin | what's good for levelling? She's only 41 |
| 16:24.46 | Sam-L | ah |
| 16:24.52 | Sam-L | Enhancement |
| 16:24.58 | Wobin | DW? |
| 16:25.01 | Sam-L | ? |
| 16:25.10 | Wobin | dual wielding? |
| 16:25.15 | Sam-L | hrm |
| 16:25.24 | Sam-L | I do sometimes |
| 16:25.31 | Sam-L | but i have a shield to tank as well |
| 16:25.56 | Sam-L | sec |
| 16:26.32 | Sam-L | they fucked with windfury a bit :/ |
| 16:26.34 | Sam-L | it works differently |
| 16:26.37 | *** join/#wowuidev [dRaCo] (n=drc@brsg-4dbb08d7.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:27.11 | *** join/#wowuidev malikeye (n=malikeye@adsl-144-143-145.rmo.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:28.27 | Sam-L | http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hZ0xgcoxzGuo |
| 16:28.29 | Sam-L | something like that |
| 16:28.41 | Sam-L | i havent played mine in a while |
| 16:30.21 | Sam-L | I'm still trying to 80 my priest :/ |
| 16:30.50 | Wobin | Sam-L: woo, thank you |
| 16:31.02 | Sam-L | no problem |
| 16:31.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-75-224.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:31.10 | Sam-L | I dunno if you like healing or not for end game but |
| 16:31.31 | Sam-L | the hit cap has gone up a fair amount, especially for spell casting. I'm not too sure about dual wielding |
| 16:31.48 | Sam-L | Good luck to you sir :) |
| 16:32.11 | Wobin | I'll possibly go healing |
| 16:32.25 | Sam-L | Then you shouldn't need to worry so much |
| 16:32.29 | Sam-L | spam CHAIN HEALZ)R |
| 16:32.35 | Wobin | I get my dps fix from my DK =) |
| 16:32.46 | Sam-L | LAWL |
| 16:33.21 | Sam-L | fun fun |
| 16:34.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 16:34.12 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 16:35.22 | Sam-L | my addon might finally work |
| 16:35.25 | Sam-L | so i can lazy pick gear |
| 16:35.33 | Sam-L | w/out freaking in depth analysis |
| 16:35.36 | Wobin | hm, what sort of weapon should I be looking for, statwise? |
| 16:35.46 | Wobin | (or weapons) |
| 16:36.04 | Sam-L | Well mh should be slow OH is fast as usual i thinks, although slow OH gives more storm strike damage |
| 16:36.19 | Sam-L | you want to make sure you hit things although much less of an issue at your level |
| 16:36.26 | Sam-L | AP is more important than strength |
| 16:36.59 | Sam-L | that's about it really |
| 16:37.03 | Sam-L | stam is always good |
| 16:37.06 | Sam-L | and int can't hurt |
| 16:37.17 | Sam-L | i know for a fact i was using the doan dagger |
| 16:37.20 | Sam-L | from library |
| 16:37.25 | Sam-L | and that was pretty tits |
| 16:38.35 | Wobin | so stam and int as a focus... |
| 16:38.37 | Wobin | hm |
| 16:39.03 | Sam-L | well |
| 16:39.03 | Sam-L | AP |
| 16:39.06 | Sam-L | is first |
| 16:39.09 | Wobin | also for armour =) |
| 16:39.10 | Sam-L | and AP is better than stam |
| 16:39.15 | Sam-L | especially for enchants |
| 16:39.21 | Sam-L | because str is 1 AP |
| 16:39.32 | Sam-L | unlike warrior where str is 2 AP |
| 16:39.39 | Sam-L | and gives to block value i believe |
| 16:40.06 | Sam-L | So you'll have +15str or +35 AP |
| 16:40.08 | Sam-L | something like that |
| 16:40.12 | Sam-L | probably +30ap |
| 16:44.42 | Sam-L | How would I get my current hit rating? |
| 16:44.48 | Sam-L | UserHit()? |
| 16:48.39 | zenzelezz | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetCombatRating |
| 16:48.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (n=Torhal@74-130-66-145.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 16:49.26 | Sam-L | ty |
| 16:49.34 | Sam-L | that seems out of date |
| 16:49.37 | Sam-L | since all hit rating is the same now? |
| 16:50.07 | Sam-L | thank you though |
| 16:50.09 | Sam-L | i will use this |
| 16:50.13 | zenzelezz | then do your own research, I'm sure it's somewhere in the FrameXML |
| 16:50.32 | Sam-L | I was ;) |
| 17:01.52 | Sam-L | man testing and debuggin this stuff is a pain |
| 17:05.32 | Sam-L | good thing its not like diablo |
| 17:05.39 | Sam-L | where you get kicked ooff bnet for too many recons |
| 17:07.54 | zenzelezz | what are you doing that makes you have to reconnect? |
| 17:14.37 | Sam-L | addon dev |
| 17:14.40 | Sam-L | anyway i got a question |
| 17:14.56 | Sam-L | when I do GameTooltip:AddLine() it doesnt expand the tooltip box |
| 17:14.59 | Sam-L | how can i go about that? |
| 17:15.12 | zenzelezz | I meant what does your addon do that requires a reconnect? |
| 17:15.51 | Sam-L | so it reloads the newest version? |
| 17:16.17 | zenzelezz | as long as you only updated your files; didn't add any new ones, you can just /script ReloadUI() |
| 17:16.24 | Sam-L | oh sweet |
| 17:16.26 | Sam-L | thanks a lot |
| 17:16.27 | zenzelezz | or /reload, many addons seem to add that |
| 17:16.34 | Sam-L | haha |
| 17:16.43 | Sam-L | now about the tooltip box expansion :) |
| 17:21.36 | Sam-L | Thanks a lot again zenzelezz :) |
| 17:21.43 | Sam-L | I maybe incorperate spec into this process |
| 17:21.55 | Sam-L | for now, i must flee! |
| 17:22.37 | KanadiaN | could someone look at this and tell me if it is right http://wowuidev.pastey.net/105100 please |
| 17:23.44 | Nom- | er... spell hit and melee hit are still different |
| 17:23.50 | sylvanaar | GameTooltip:AddLine has an extra paramter |
| 17:23.57 | Nom- | they scale differently for many classes such as paladins |
| 17:24.31 | zenzelezz | KanadiaN: I guess you're actually getting the message from an event? In any case beware of case sensitivity |
| 17:26.14 | KanadiaN | I am trying to trap and get the achievementID when a guild member pops an achievement and it is displayed to guild using CHAT_MSG_GUILD_ACHIEVEMENT |
| 17:34.41 | Anaral | This has to be my new favorite wow movie to date. http://vimeo.com/2625538?pg=embed&sec=2625538&hd=1 |
| 17:35.50 | Anaral | And I don't usually watch much machinama. |
| 17:36.31 | Wobin | craft of war? |
| 17:36.42 | Wobin | yeah, that one is great =) |
| 17:37.06 | Wobin | lighting in it was fantastic |
| 17:38.28 | Tem | holy piss |
| 17:38.33 | Tem | that's amazing |
| 17:38.40 | Tem | the animations are all so fluid |
| 17:39.05 | Anaral | Yeah |
| 17:39.41 | Anaral | The artist is a real professional. It's amazing to see how far the animations for WoW can be stretched. |
| 17:39.56 | Anaral | Just the quality is superior to anything I've ever seen before. |
| 17:40.04 | Wobin | and the fight physics are so fun |
| 17:40.12 | Anaral | Aye |
| 17:40.14 | Wobin | very kungfu moviesh |
| 17:40.16 | *** topic/#WoWUIDev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.0.x ToC: 30000 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Help sick kids! http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19741 | Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone! | Congrats Krka on baby girl!!! |
| 17:40.19 | Anaral | And I love the movie. |
| 17:40.26 | Anaral | music* |
| 17:40.42 | nevcairiel | yeah that movie was great |
| 17:41.38 | nevcairiel | first i thought "bah another wow-emote-movie", but its really re-animated, thats amazing :) |
| 17:41.54 | Wobin | thank god for that =P |
| 17:42.08 | Wobin | If I saw another wow movie with the damn gnome emotes... |
| 17:42.36 | zenzelezz | Wobin: you mean you can actually tire of /cheer? |
| 17:42.37 | Wobin | in fact, the only one that managed to pull it off with any decency was Big Blue Dress and the gnome backup singers |
| 17:43.19 | Wobin | I mean, the ones with Jimmy the mage were amusing storywise |
| 17:43.32 | Wobin | but watching him narrate, and do the same movements over and over got tiresome |
| 17:44.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (i=62d8db99@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-460668973063c81e) |
| 17:44.48 | zenzelezz | my Omen sometimes seems to decide to show when I'm solo, no matter how many times I tell it to hide |
| 17:46.54 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@s0034-0015.dsl.start.no) |
| 17:46.57 | Cralor` | does anyone here know much about configuring Blizzard's DK Runes? it seems i am having some trouble configuring them |
| 17:49.25 | Cralor` | here is my code for changing it's scale with a slider: whenever i try to use the slider, nothing happens: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/105103 |
| 17:55.16 | *** join/#wowuidev keias (i=saiek@c-69-245-244-213.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 17:58.58 | Cralor` | does anyone know what i am doing wrong? |
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| 18:27.58 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:28.38 | mikma | dear fooking lord |
| 18:28.46 | mikma | why are people asking me to use AceComm? |
| 18:28.53 | mikma | my addon gets 0 benefit from it |
| 18:29.55 | Tekkub | because you're too stupid to see the benefit |
| 18:30.32 | mikma | which don't exist :I |
| 18:32.31 | Arrowmaster | whats the addon? |
| 18:34.18 | mikma | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=11940#info |
| 18:35.02 | Tekkub | they don't want to be in multiple global channels |
| 18:35.10 | Tekkub | just the acecomm one |
| 18:35.27 | sylvanaar | does acecomm's change? |
| 18:35.49 | mikma | acecomm's description: Which channel to send the message to. Available channels are "PARTY", "RAID", "BATTLEGROUND", "GUILD", and "WHISPER". |
| 18:35.50 | Arrowmaster | acecomm doesnt even have a global channel |
| 18:35.57 | mikma | what arrowmaster said. |
| 18:36.23 | Tekkub | oh, I thought it did... maybe that's just 2.0? |
| 18:36.28 | ZorbaTHut | because they're trying to make a feature request, but they don't actually know what feature they're trying to request, and they think adding "acecomm support" will magically provide that feature |
| 18:36.29 | sylvanaar | it used to |
| 18:36.39 | Arrowmaster | acecomm-2.0 did |
| 18:36.39 | Tekkub | I remember people passwording *something* that ckk's stuff used |
| 18:36.42 | sylvanaar | hwo about, hide your com channel |
| 18:36.49 | Tekkub | and us laughing our asses off at them |
| 18:36.49 | sylvanaar | so they dont know they are in it |
| 18:37.00 | mikma | sylvanaar: how can you hide a global channel? :) |
| 18:37.11 | Aiiane | zomg ZorbaTHut make questhelper use acecomm and callbackhandler! |
| 18:37.14 | Tekkub | chat hookers |
| 18:37.20 | ZorbaTHut | aiiane, ON IT |
| 18:37.34 | ZorbaTHut | seriously though, I have had some pretty weird feature requests |
| 18:37.41 | sylvanaar | just tell all your frames not to listen for that channel |
| 18:37.46 | Aiiane | ZorbaTHut: tell me about it |
| 18:37.51 | ZorbaTHut | "Can you make Questhelper use Cartographer?" I, uh, wait, it . . . does already? What do you want it to use cartographer *for*? |
| 18:38.14 | ZorbaTHut | and then one guy who said "Can you write a Fubar replacement for Questhelper?" |
| 18:38.20 | mikma | sylvanaar: well i already have this: for i=1,7 do ChatFrame_RemoveChannel(_G["ChatFrame"..i],"WGTglobal") end |
| 18:38.23 | Tekkub | hey now, I had someone that wanted me to integrate TG with QH |
| 18:38.26 | ZorbaTHut | after some questioning, yes, he really wanted Questhelper to include an entire new Fubar-like framework |
| 18:38.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Cheatcakes (n=sfad@67-43-245-131-cablemodem-roll.fidnet.com) |
| 18:38.36 | Tekkub | seemed to have completely missed the point of TG |
| 18:38.38 | mikma | removes the channel from all windows when people broadcast/receive stuff |
| 18:38.38 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, that seems to kind of defeat the purpose of TG |
| 18:38.41 | sylvanaar | how about lets make a shared global addon channel |
| 18:38.43 | sylvanaar | wait |
| 18:38.52 | ZorbaTHut | like, the answer to that is "uninstall TG and use Questhelper instead" :P |
| 18:39.10 | mikma | sylvanaar: i'd like that =/ |
| 18:39.15 | Tekkub | nah, I just said "why?" and then ignored his reply |
| 18:39.23 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, I definitely have things I could use that for (not qh-related, but) |
| 18:39.28 | sylvanaar | mikma yeah, does your channel get stored in the chatcache? |
| 18:39.51 | sylvanaar | ZorbaTHut someone find acecomm-2.0 |
| 18:39.53 | mikma | sylvanaar: shouldn't if the channel is joined with JoinTemporaryChannel |
| 18:40.07 | ZorbaTHut | I wish Blizzard would provide some kind of addon-friendly global channel system |
| 18:40.12 | mikma | sylvanaar: well atleast, it doesn't save changes |
| 18:40.13 | ZorbaTHut | I also wish they'd provide a better dynamic load system :P |
| 18:40.26 | Tekkub | AddonLoader works fine for me... |
| 18:40.30 | sylvanaar | i created a semi-LoD system |
| 18:41.00 | sylvanaar | it does what i want, without needing to use the LoD mechanism |
| 18:41.15 | Cheatcakes | is it possible to read in the contents of a directory into an addon? |
| 18:41.19 | selckin | you're all too obsessed with lod |
| 18:41.23 | ZorbaTHut | what I need would pretty much require Blizzard support, sadly |
| 18:41.25 | sylvanaar | tell them to add a Realm type to addonloader |
| 18:41.38 | ZorbaTHut | selckin, I generally agree, but when you have giant pools of data like I do it'd actually be useful |
| 18:41.48 | ZorbaTHut | I do think that anyone who has a 10k plugin set to load-on-demand is nuts |
| 18:42.13 | Tekkub | hrm... yes... not having the addons I use in combat load when I'm in town selling shit is totally obsessive |
| 18:42.14 | sylvanaar | ZorbaTHut i wrap all my code in 1 giant function, and execute it later |
| 18:42.22 | Tekkub | and vise-versa |
| 18:42.41 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, hah. doesn't work for me, sadly, the part I want to avoid really is the "load" part |
| 18:42.47 | mikma | sylvanaar: the thing what people are nagging is the fact that they don't have extra channels to spare for addons |
| 18:43.02 | mikma | sylvanaar: they don't want global channel to be used because they don't have room for it :D |
| 18:43.09 | Tekkub | mikma, so uhm, disable the global channel by default? |
| 18:43.09 | Aiiane | Tekkub: I'd much prefer the ability to *unload* certain addons on demand |
| 18:43.22 | sylvanaar | you have alot of saved variables ZorbaTHut |
| 18:43.25 | Tekkub | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.32 | mikma | tekkub: no, i'll rather have the others disable the addon if they don't like the feature :D |
| 18:43.39 | Tekkub | and if your load conditions on the addon are sane, it don't load |
| 18:43.43 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, I know. if you're looking at a recent .toc, I actually have a summary of them afterwards and mention that it's going to be cleaned up soon |
| 18:43.51 | Aiiane | Tekkub: sure, but it'd be nicer to not have to reload |
| 18:44.08 | sylvanaar | ZorbaTHut it was a question. what part of loading is bad? |
| 18:44.08 | Aiiane | not necessarily easier to implement, by a long shot of course |
| 18:44.10 | Tekkub | I'm really not concerned with addons once they've loaded |
| 18:44.11 | Aiiane | but nicer |
| 18:44.24 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, the part that involves you getting disconnected in Dalaran if you're loading too much data |
| 18:44.25 | Tekkub | but I also don't have anything that's worrysome anyway |
| 18:44.37 | ZorbaTHut | the part where you have to parse multi-megabyte files full of Russian text, then throw them away again if the user isn't Russian |
| 18:44.43 | Aiiane | main thing in my mind would be auctioneer data |
| 18:44.54 | sylvanaar | you know how fast parsing is? |
| 18:44.55 | mikma | i think i'll have the global channel joining removed from login |
| 18:44.58 | Tekkub | tekauc solves that ^^ |
| 18:45.07 | Aiiane | heh :P |
| 18:45.20 | ZorbaTHut | the part where the only way to fix it would be to split it into multiple directories with .tocs, then load from there, only that wouldn't even provide some abilities I want and it would complicate loading |
| 18:45.22 | mikma | people need to click the broker before they join the channel |
| 18:45.38 | ZorbaTHut | yes, I do. It takes about half a second with the largest files I have. |
| 18:45.42 | ZorbaTHut | Of which I have about half a dozen. |
| 18:45.45 | Arrowmaster | mikma: you can tell that saying theres bugs with your addon when using fortress that its not your problem, fortress is completely fucked up with its interface options and fucks with other mods too and the author refused to fix it |
| 18:45.50 | Aiiane | Tekkub: glancing at the commit log for that, I like your notes :P |
| 18:45.57 | ZorbaTHut | (I've added some extensive output for this.) |
| 18:45.59 | Tekkub | mikma, how much drift is there in the time? |
| 18:46.01 | sylvanaar | parsing, just parsing - not execution of the main chunk |
| 18:46.14 | ZorbaTHut | Parsing, and execution of a tiny, tiny bit of code that merely returns. |
| 18:46.17 | sylvanaar | which happens at the same time |
| 18:46.22 | mikma | tekkub: that's already fixed, sylvanaar found the problem and told me how to fix it :) |
| 18:46.30 | ZorbaTHut | no, it doesn't happen at the same time - syntax errors will cause the entire file to fail to execute |
| 18:46.45 | ZorbaTHut | it tokenizes and does basic parsing first, then it executes from the beginning |
| 18:46.49 | mikma | tekkub: it was something like 10 minutes went 10 seconds faster than it should |
| 18:46.53 | Tekkub | no, I mean, how much does the WG start time drift? or is it a set sched? |
| 18:46.53 | mikma | so 2 hours went 2 minutes faster |
| 18:46.57 | sylvanaar | parsing and execution of a file happen at the same time |
| 18:47.04 | mikma | oh that... |
| 18:47.10 | mikma | 0-45minutes or so |
| 18:47.15 | ZorbaTHut | no, it does the parse pass first, and then it immediately executes it. It does not parse as it goes. This is trivial to test :P |
| 18:47.21 | Tekkub | well bleh |
| 18:47.40 | Tekkub | I was gonna say, give a good estimate and correct it when they get actual data |
| 18:47.41 | mikma | ok let's say it like this: depends how long the battle is. battle lenght + 2h 30min |
| 18:47.44 | ZorbaTHut | Write a line or two of valid code, then something which is a parse error ("if true return end" for example, it'll throw an error on the lack of "then") |
| 18:47.50 | Tekkub | but over a day that's like a few hours drift |
| 18:47.54 | ZorbaTHut | run it within WoW, observe that the valid code never gets executed |
| 18:47.57 | mikma | aye |
| 18:48.24 | mikma | sylvanaar: well code us a global broadcast library and i'll use it :D |
| 18:48.45 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=chatzill@124.200.16.237) |
| 18:48.55 | sylvanaar | ok, i guess i meant the two are happening together |
| 18:48.58 | Tekkub | heh, you know what I love most about lua? "return" followed by code throws syntax errors.. "if true then return end" followed by code doesn't |
| 18:49.03 | ZorbaTHut | WoW appears to load, parse, and execute each file in series. Unfortunately, many of my files merely "return" when they realize they shouldn't be loading - I'd like to eliminate the "load/parse" segment if it's unnecessary, but I'd like to do it without complicating installation. |
| 18:49.26 | sylvanaar | did you see my rant on self |
| 18:49.43 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: whats complicated about a zip with multiple folders? |
| 18:49.45 | ZorbaTHut | I'd also like to rig up some system where I could re-load a file multiple times, allowing me to deallocate the data if I don't need it while still being able to retrieve it if I later do, but that's simply impossible with the current system. |
| 18:49.51 | sylvanaar | local self = {} function self:self(self) print(type(self)) end self(self) |
| 18:49.56 | ZorbaTHut | arrowmaster, I have people who don't understand the concept of "unzip all the files" |
| 18:49.58 | ZorbaTHut | they unzip some of them |
| 18:50.07 | ZorbaTHut | sometimes others. sometimes in the wrong place. sometimes they just put them in random locations. |
| 18:50.12 | Arrowmaster | tell them to use the curseclient or go the fuck away then |
| 18:50.20 | Tekkub | ZorbaTHut, you need to stop concerning yourself with the retards |
| 18:50.28 | sylvanaar | ZorbaTHut you can reload a LoD addon cant you? |
| 18:50.29 | ZorbaTHut | I do, but how many people would have trouble with a more complicated install? |
| 18:50.32 | Arrowmaster | seriously, im suppriesed you still do this |
| 18:50.34 | ZorbaTHut | I'd just rather not do it overall. |
| 18:50.46 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, I don't believe so - I remember looking into this. I might have misread the docs. |
| 18:51.02 | Arrowmaster | this is why i gave up on coding and releasing anything of my own |
| 18:51.07 | sylvanaar | if not, you can make Addon_001-100 point the toc at Addon_001, and go to town |
| 18:51.10 | Arrowmaster | i dont fucking want to deal with the retards |
| 18:51.29 | Tekkub | LightHeaded only has like 3 *million* downloads, seems to me people can install it just fine |
| 18:52.22 | Arrowmaster | you will never get the ability to reload an addon |
| 18:52.37 | ZorbaTHut | the comments zone on wowinterface is a lot more hidden than the one on curse.com - the people who find it tend to be more competent. I can pretty much guarantee that people are failing to install it properly. |
| 18:52.45 | sylvanaar | you know you can reload a LoD addon that failed to load |
| 18:52.47 | mikma | well yeah, i think i have to add the user-defined delay in the global channel joining |
| 18:53.09 | ZorbaTHut | arrowmaster, there's no good reason not to allow it. It's simple to rig it so it can't be used for data injection. |
| 18:53.15 | Tekkub | there will always be people that fail |
| 18:53.17 | mikma | they dont want the global channel to end up in /1 |
| 18:53.36 | Tekkub | my point is, there's 3 million downloads, so I don't think too many people are failing |
| 18:53.57 | mikma | tekkub: downloading is simple |
| 18:54.05 | mikma | failinf to install it is simple |
| 18:54.08 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, I feel that's unlikely. I mean, I can see how many people fail to install QH on curse, and I can see how many people download it on wowinterface |
| 18:54.10 | Tekkub | and if they fail to install, they won't download again |
| 18:54.14 | ZorbaTHut | and the ratios are completely different |
| 18:54.22 | mikma | flailing in tpyeing is sipmle |
| 18:54.24 | sylvanaar | but like i mentioned. You can make Addon_000...Addon_999. Point all the tocs at the one in Addon_000, and load one of them each time you want to "reload" |
| 18:54.31 | Arrowmaster | mikma: check for the event saying you joined a channel and start a timer that resets again everytime that event fires, when the timer expires unreg the event and join your channel |
| 18:54.41 | ZorbaTHut | I get constant "i dont know how to install" comments on curse, but (almost) none of them on wowinterface |
| 18:54.50 | mikma | arrowmaster: hmm |
| 18:54.54 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, then I'm polluting the user's directory with a thousand addons and slowing down load again :( |
| 18:55.04 | sylvanaar | they are all LoD |
| 18:55.12 | ZorbaTHut | they still have to be parsed |
| 18:55.23 | sylvanaar | that first pass is very fast |
| 18:55.27 | ZorbaTHut | traversing a thousand directories is surprisingly slow, especially since directory structures tend to be O(n) lookup |
| 18:55.42 | Arrowmaster | that isnt part of the load |
| 18:55.51 | sylvanaar | AND not to mention, it pretty much guarantees that the files will be in the file cache |
| 18:55.53 | Tekkub | ugh, you use O notation, I hate you forever now |
| 18:55.54 | Arrowmaster | wow does that when you start it not when you enter the game world |
| 18:56.16 | ZorbaTHut | it's part of the original startup, and if the structure *is* O(n) lookup, then it'll potentially slow down their boot as well |
| 18:56.21 | sylvanaar | Arrowmaster it does it twice |
| 18:56.25 | ZorbaTHut | plus, it's ugly, and people will fail to install it and/or hate me ;) |
| 18:56.34 | ZorbaTHut | hell I'd hate me |
| 18:56.50 | selckin | just have a folder per language \ |
| 18:56.52 | Arrowmaster | i would hate you too for trying to do that |
| 18:56.52 | sylvanaar | the startup one is the file mask |
| 18:57.04 | Tekkub | so in short, you don't want to use what works because your stupidest users would hate you |
| 18:57.09 | Tekkub | that's a great reason there |
| 18:57.41 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, I don't want to use something that sort-of solves the problem badly, with a large number of new issues involved with it, because it would be horrifyingly ugly, *all* my users would hate me, and it would make a significant number of my users unable to install it |
| 18:57.47 | sylvanaar | the reload one uses the file mask and checks existance of those files |
| 18:58.21 | sylvanaar | the file mask never changes until you restart the game |
| 18:58.26 | Arrowmaster | and are you sure the problem is in the size of the files being parsed and not all the crap questhelper does on load? |
| 18:58.41 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, yes, as I said I've tested it |
| 18:58.46 | Tekkub | last I saw, QH's datastructure was some scary shit |
| 18:58.57 | ZorbaTHut | I record GetTime() at the beginning of each file - it's quite easy to output that and demonstrate that merely parsing a large file takes significant time |
| 18:59.12 | sylvanaar | big SVs and or lots of work in the main chunk |
| 18:59.12 | ZorbaTHut | I have very extensive data on exactly where QH spends all its time on load, and at this point about 90% of it is just parsing files. |
| 18:59.15 | Tekkub | parsing a large file doesn't really |
| 18:59.18 | sylvanaar | uh uh |
| 18:59.22 | sylvanaar | not just parsing |
| 18:59.24 | Tekkub | it's allocation thousands of tables that does |
| 18:59.27 | ZorbaTHut | no, it really does. I mean, I've tested it. |
| 18:59.28 | sylvanaar | do you declare functions? |
| 18:59.39 | Tekkub | parsing a file is damn fast |
| 18:59.42 | sylvanaar | variables |
| 18:59.43 | ZorbaTHut | No, there's no allocation. The file is "record GetTime(), if GetLocale() ~= "SOMETHING_IT_DOESNT_EQUAL" then return end" |
| 18:59.49 | ZorbaTHut | that's the entire file. |
| 18:59.53 | ZorbaTHut | Look at, say, static_esES.lua |
| 19:00.00 | sylvanaar | what os? |
| 19:00.01 | Tekkub | executing the code, not as fast... declaring massive table structures, slow as fuck |
| 19:00.11 | ZorbaTHut | winxp |
| 19:00.33 | sylvanaar | i wrote a tool to precache all the addons in my addon dir |
| 19:00.43 | sylvanaar | had 0 effect on vista |
| 19:00.49 | ZorbaTHut | here, esMX.lua, the first chunk |
| 19:00.51 | Tekkub | damn that vista |
| 19:00.53 | sylvanaar | maybe it will help on xp |
| 19:00.54 | ZorbaTHut | QuestHelper_File["static_esMX.lua"]="0.75"QuestHelper_Loadtime["static_esMX.lua"]=GetTime()if GetLocale()~="esMX"then return end |
| 19:00.56 | foxlit | clearly time to use literal strings and loadstring those locale chunks |
| 19:01.07 | ZorbaTHut | that file takes about 0.4 seconds to parse and run on my computer |
| 19:01.15 | foxlit | code = [[ meh ]] if isCodeNeeded() then loadstring(code)(); end |
| 19:01.16 | ZorbaTHut | 763kb |
| 19:01.25 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: oh i fucking hate you now |
| 19:01.26 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, yeah, I'm considering that in my next version |
| 19:01.34 | Arrowmaster | i opened a static_*.lua file |
| 19:01.37 | ZorbaTHut | not worth it right now, but |
| 19:01.42 | Arrowmaster | and now my editor is shitting out on me |
| 19:01.58 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, they're condensed heavily to save on disk space and load time. Sorry, I guess your editor might not like them ;) |
| 19:02.11 | sylvanaar | wait do you wrap your locale in a closure? |
| 19:02.16 | mikma | arrowmaster: i guess i have to do that one |
| 19:02.20 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@dhcp-077-250-125-249.chello.nl) |
| 19:02.41 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, no, it's just a giant series of creating tables |
| 19:02.58 | Tekkub | which is EXACTLY what takes assloads of time to do |
| 19:03.14 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, it *doesn't create those tables if the locale doesn't match* |
| 19:03.20 | ZorbaTHut | and it still takes substantial time to "run" |
| 19:03.20 | Tekkub | allocating tables is about the slowest thing you can do on load |
| 19:03.24 | mikma | sylvanaar: i already have a name for your global comm library: Skynet |
| 19:03.27 | ZorbaTHut | it just returns if the locale doesn't match |
| 19:03.34 | sylvanaar | mikma cool name |
| 19:03.38 | ZorbaTHut | look at that line I posted, then read it carefully :P |
| 19:03.39 | ZorbaTHut | QuestHelper_File["static_esMX.lua"]="0.75"QuestHelper_Loadtime["static_esMX.lua"]=GetTime()if GetLocale()~="esMX"then return end |
| 19:03.44 | ZorbaTHut | see? "return" |
| 19:03.51 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: it still gets parsed into the bytecode |
| 19:03.55 | Arrowmaster | try the loadstring trick |
| 19:04.05 | ZorbaTHut | yes, which is what I've been saying this *entire time* |
| 19:04.11 | ZorbaTHut | it still parses it, even when it doesn't run it |
| 19:04.22 | Arrowmaster | exactly, so try loadstring |
| 19:04.26 | Arrowmaster | it wont parse it |
| 19:04.35 | sylvanaar | it will parse 1 big string |
| 19:04.44 | Aiiane | giant string literals go |
| 19:05.04 | sylvanaar | why not precompile it goog |
| 19:05.19 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I probably will later. Right now it's not top priority. And the entire issue would just go away if I could get some better per-file load-on-demand support. |
| 19:05.21 | Aiiane | does wow even allow precompiled files? |
| 19:05.31 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: you will not |
| 19:05.46 | ZorbaTHut | I don't know why not, it's easy to do in a manner that doesn't introduce holes |
| 19:05.46 | Tekkub | what arrow said |
| 19:05.56 | Tekkub | because it's not needed |
| 19:06.16 | Tekkub | we have solutions that work, Blizzy doesn't need to spend time fixing it |
| 19:06.23 | ZorbaTHut | it's needed, because someday the error will happen again, and Blizzard's tech support will be flooded with "why cant I log in in dalaran" errors again ;) |
| 19:06.36 | Arrowmaster | and they will say the same thing |
| 19:06.39 | Arrowmaster | disable addons |
| 19:06.43 | Arrowmaster | they dont give a fuck |
| 19:06.49 | sylvanaar | addons are unsupported |
| 19:06.53 | Aiiane | meh, that's more the fault of a billion people that are too damn lazy to do their own quests :P |
| 19:06.53 | ZorbaTHut | even saying that costs 'em money |
| 19:07.05 | ZorbaTHut | I have no doubt that from their point of view, they'd rather fix the problem permanently |
| 19:07.12 | selckin | so why does it work outside of dalaran? |
| 19:07.21 | Arrowmaster | no they wont |
| 19:07.35 | Tekkub | or any that truly understand the problem would probably say "write a better addon" :P |
| 19:07.36 | ZorbaTHut | selckin, I'm not entirely sure. I think Dalaran itself is also quite slow |
| 19:07.38 | selckin | ZorbaTHut: that would be disbaling questhelper server side :) |
| 19:07.39 | Arrowmaster | their tech support is low paid peons |
| 19:07.46 | ZorbaTHut | Dalaran = fast enough, QH = fast enough, QH + Dalaran = too slow |
| 19:07.57 | ZorbaTHut | selckin, they'd lose a substantial number of subscribers, I suspect. |
| 19:08.00 | Arrowmaster | the people that would actually have to work on doing anything you want are high paid professionals |
| 19:08.18 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, *shrug* it's a simple set of changes. |
| 19:08.24 | selckin | you can't believe that |
| 19:08.24 | Arrowmaster | no its not |
| 19:08.26 | ZorbaTHut | hell, I could probably do it within a day or so. |
| 19:08.41 | Arrowmaster | and then spend 2 months testing it |
| 19:08.45 | Arrowmaster | and debugging it |
| 19:08.46 | sylvanaar | because loading in dalran is io intensive, and adding to that time may cause you to respond too slowly |
| 19:09.30 | Arrowmaster | its a multibillion dollar company, all changes have to be approved and have a damn good reason |
| 19:09.56 | foxlit | /meh at the "multibillion" as a reason. |
| 19:09.59 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, "it will cause a substantial fraction of our userbase to stop having errors, as well as provide a new tool for UI mod authors to use" |
| 19:10.14 | sylvanaar | you can do everything with the existing LoD stuff, its just ugly |
| 19:10.16 | ZorbaTHut | It's doable. Depends on how the company is set up, perhaps, but I doubt they're ridiculously overmanaged. |
| 19:10.32 | Arrowmaster | or you could just fix your shit instead |
| 19:10.45 | foxlit | "you could fix your shit by adding more shit to it" |
| 19:10.46 | ZorbaTHut | we've already been over why that's problematical, so, I refer you to the previous discussion :P |
| 19:10.54 | ZorbaTHut | hey dogg I heard you like shit |
| 19:11.01 | ZorbaTHut | so I added some shit to your shit so you can crash while you crash |
| 19:11.39 | Tekkub | yea see now, I think they'd not see it as "a substantial part of the userbase" but more along the lines of "one addon programmer |
| 19:12.06 | Arrowmaster | seriously just fucking put all the locales in different lod addons |
| 19:12.25 | foxlit | Tekkub: on the other hand, they did work with single addon authors in the past. |
| 19:12.33 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, *shrug* I think that's unlikely, myself. |
| 19:12.58 | Arrowmaster | foxlit: those addon authors probably made good addons, unlike questhelper |
| 19:13.15 | Tekkub | if you have that much stuff in loacales, something is seriously wrong |
| 19:13.47 | sylvanaar | your locale files are 3MB |
| 19:13.49 | Arrowmaster | Tekkub: all his data is like patch 2.4 never happened, zero guids zero questids zero spellids |
| 19:14.04 | Tekkub | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:14.45 | Arrowmaster | its a questhelper is shit problem and not a blizzard problem |
| 19:14.51 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, yeah, it's an unfortunate decision made originally |
| 19:14.53 | Tekkub | this takes me back to that "I have 2GB of memory, if the game can't use all that for addons something is seriously wrong with it" convo someone had with Zooter |
| 19:14.54 | sylvanaar | and my listing file gerator is still working at creating a listing |
| 19:14.56 | ZorbaTHut | it doesn't store stuff by ID, it stores it by name |
| 19:15.02 | ZorbaTHut | I'm working on fixing that now, but it's a large set of changes. |
| 19:15.36 | Tekkub | see now, that's exactly why blizzy would see it as a "one addon developr" problem |
| 19:15.54 | Tekkub | if you changed over to the new shit THEY GAVE YOU, you'd probably make the issue go away |
| 19:16.11 | ZorbaTHut | not the entire issue, sadly. It'll help, but it won't be everything, and when I start needing to add new data it may come back. |
| 19:16.24 | Tekkub | so it's a question of your coding time, or theirs |
| 19:16.40 | ZorbaTHut | except theirs solves problems for multiple addons |
| 19:17.54 | sylvanaar | i wanted them to have a default addon loader, so you could make all addons load on demand. that was like a linked list and a function. they didnt add it |
| 19:18.18 | sylvanaar | your chance of getting it is .0000000000000001 |
| 19:18.32 | ZorbaTHut | Perhaps. It's still worth a try. |
| 19:19.36 | batrick | what's the problem? I missed it in the mile long argument |
| 19:19.39 | sylvanaar | every interaction i have had has been not worth it |
| 19:19.59 | Arrowmaster | batrick: the problem is questhelper is shit and he wants blizzard to fix it |
| 19:20.21 | sylvanaar | Arrowmaster stop being a dick |
| 19:20.23 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, lots of people claiming I don't know why questhelper takes a long time to load, eventual proof that I do, arrow hates questhelper, and I have a neat and simple feature request that would make LoD much easier and more powerful |
| 19:20.41 | Arrowmaster | hey i never said i hate it |
| 19:20.45 | batrick | what are you trying to do |
| 19:20.47 | Arrowmaster | i just said the code is fucking shit |
| 19:21.04 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, which part? |
| 19:21.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 19:21.24 | batrick | exactly what is the problem with questhelper, and how is it you want to fix it |
| 19:21.31 | Arrowmaster | batrick: reduce load time |
| 19:21.33 | sylvanaar | he wants per-file load on demand (ie loadfile/runfile) |
| 19:21.40 | Tekkub | aroow's not the hater, that's me |
| 19:21.43 | Tekkub | :P |
| 19:21.46 | ZorbaTHut | sylvanaar, similar to that, with some restrictions, yes |
| 19:21.53 | batrick | reducing load time is a goal not a problem |
| 19:22.20 | Tekkub | partially because I have a competing mod, but mostly because I have nightmares from when I looked at the code |
| 19:22.22 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, there's two problems. (1) load time is too high, and it's annoying (2) if load time gets way too high, people stop being able to log in |
| 19:22.44 | batrick | so what are you loading that isn't necessary? |
| 19:22.46 | ZorbaTHut | also, (3) it takes more RAM than I'd like, and while there are some large things I can fix, there are also some that I can't easily |
| 19:22.48 | Arrowmaster | batrick: ok ill phrase it as a problem, the load time is so high that it has a chance to disconect people before it finishes |
| 19:23.02 | sylvanaar | batrick his locale files are 3M |
| 19:23.19 | ZorbaTHut | and on top of that, (4) the existing LoD system is rather messy and complicates installation, and I'd rather not use it (i.e. I'd rather keep the existing load time than use the existing LoD system) |
| 19:23.23 | batrick | well that's interesting |
| 19:23.47 | Arrowmaster | everybody else uses the existing LoD system without issues |
| 19:23.57 | Tekkub | and hey, if you used addonloader with good load conditions, it'd fix it for users that user AL! |
| 19:24.14 | Tekkub | but I only suggested addonloader at the very start of this crap |
| 19:24.15 | sylvanaar | then they'd need addonloader |
| 19:24.44 | foxlit | The fact that you can crash their loading process from an addon is BAD. |
| 19:24.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4ab02b1355c727ef) |
| 19:24.55 | Tekkub | not *need* AL |
| 19:25.00 | Tekkub | 100% optional |
| 19:25.02 | Arrowmaster | foxlit: its more of a timeout than a crash |
| 19:25.04 | Tekkub | things are just better with it |
| 19:25.06 | batrick | can you guys get off his back already? bunch of jealous whiney kids |
| 19:25.15 | batrick | make a solution or shut up |
| 19:25.19 | Arrowmaster | we did |
| 19:25.23 | Arrowmaster | he didnt like it |
| 19:25.34 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, yeah, I agree |
| 19:25.45 | ZorbaTHut | there's ways they could fix that too, but those are more complicated |
| 19:26.02 | Tekkub | we gave him lots of solutions |
| 19:26.06 | ZorbaTHut | personally I think they should do *both*, but one becomes lower-priority once the other is done. I'm campaigning for the one that makes my life easier ;) |
| 19:26.16 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, and I explained why I don't consider them suitable :P |
| 19:26.30 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: did you even try the loadstring one yet? |
| 19:26.41 | Arrowmaster | im curious as to if it works |
| 19:26.44 | sylvanaar | can you even loadstring that much |
| 19:26.47 | sylvanaar | you cant |
| 19:26.48 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, no, I'll be trying it later. it's not trivial to implement |
| 19:27.13 | ZorbaTHut | and it'll be part of the next-gen data build system anyway, so, I may as well wait until then to try it out |
| 19:27.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 19:27.20 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 19:27.22 | Tekkub | AL is like 3 lines added to the TOC |
| 19:27.33 | Tekkub | I don't see how you can argue against that |
| 19:27.40 | Tekkub | you log in in town, addon doesn't load |
| 19:27.45 | Tekkub | you leave town, it loads |
| 19:27.52 | Tekkub | Dalaran is your whole issue |
| 19:28.00 | Arrowmaster | yes it is, just take every locale file and change the 2nd line to 'loadstring([==[...]==])()' where ... is the original code on that 2nd line |
| 19:28.03 | Tekkub | user doesn't have AL, then they see no change |
| 19:28.03 | sylvanaar | just make QH_Data |
| 19:28.07 | sylvanaar | load it yourself |
| 19:28.15 | ZorbaTHut | ahh, forgot about that weird string syntax |
| 19:28.16 | sylvanaar | done |
| 19:28.21 | ZorbaTHut | right, lemme try that out and see what it does |
| 19:28.48 | Shirik | bad Arrowmaster |
| 19:28.52 | Shirik | parens are evil |
| 19:28.58 | Arrowmaster | ? |
| 19:29.10 | Shirik | loadstring[==[...]==]() < -- better because it looks cooler |
| 19:29.26 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 19:29.27 | Aiiane | it's a loadstring-saber |
| 19:29.30 | Arrowmaster | i hate that syntax |
| 19:29.31 | Shirik | :P |
| 19:29.31 | foxlit | die, Shirik, die :) |
| 19:32.14 | sylvanaar | my listing file generator is still working |
| 19:32.40 | sylvanaar | clearly it broke it |
| 19:32.47 | ZorbaTHut | slightly faster, though not hugely. 0.3 seconds to 0.25 seconds, which might just be disk cache. Still, I'll do some more extensive tests - it'd be nice if this improved it, even if it's just a little. |
| 19:33.24 | ZorbaTHut | hmm, the downside is that if you actually *do* load it, it's substantially slower |
| 19:33.53 | ZorbaTHut | went from 0.5 to 0.9 on the US file |
| 19:34.20 | Arrowmaster | well you can delay it further since you arent doing anything with the data yet right |
| 19:34.31 | Arrowmaster | since you have that loading wait time |
| 19:34.50 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, but that still involves a one-second pause eventually, which I'm not entirely excited about. But yes, I could put it after load, that'd actually be quite easy. |
| 19:34.59 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 19:35.17 | foxlit | Why don't you ship locale-dependant zips anyway? |
| 19:35.29 | Arrowmaster | thats not feasable |
| 19:35.32 | ZorbaTHut | I'll have to try it out and see if it's an actual improvement, 0.3->0.25 is small enough that it could just be measurement error. But it's worth trying. Thanks for the suggestion :) |
| 19:35.41 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, massive complication of installation |
| 19:35.42 | Arrowmaster | the sites dont support locale dependant zips |
| 19:35.47 | Anaral | Tekkub, not many people use AL, so that doesn't help the core group of users. |
| 19:35.56 | batrick | ZorbaTHut: in a quick test I did, moving the conditional load for a huge file outside a loadstring() on the file significantly improved load times |
| 19:36.00 | foxlit | ZorbaTHut: "Oh noes, I have to click on my language when downloading hte zip" |
| 19:36.06 | ZorbaTHut | it's the kind of thing I'd do if I had a QH Client, but. |
| 19:36.06 | foxlit | "What am I ever going to do?!" |
| 19:36.14 | ZorbaTHut | foxlit, this is a plugin designed to make World of Warcraft questing easier. |
| 19:36.17 | ZorbaTHut | Think about that for a second. |
| 19:36.20 | batrick | cut load time by a third |
| 19:36.28 | ZorbaTHut | What makes you think they're going to want to click on more things to install? :P |
| 19:36.29 | foxlit | So you think your users are idiot. |
| 19:36.32 | foxlit | s/./s/ |
| 19:36.46 | ZorbaTHut | Some of them, yes. I mean, just look at the curse.com comments page. |
| 19:36.55 | Tekkub | s/think/know/ |
| 19:37.04 | ZorbaTHut | I mean here's an actual comment I got |
| 19:37.06 | ZorbaTHut | "U NEED 2 FIX QUESTHELPER NOW!!! I NEED 2 GET 2 LVL 70 BE4 NEW GAMES COMES OUT." |
| 19:37.08 | foxlit | Well, your loss. |
| 19:37.13 | Tekkub | curse is full of idiots |
| 19:37.14 | ZorbaTHut | as I remember, the solution was "install the latest version". |
| 19:37.22 | Tekkub | imagine curse without comments... |
| 19:37.26 | Arrowmaster | ZorbaTHut: yeah and if you change it so instead of executing the loadstring right away it executes it sometime after the addon loading has passed control back to the game so it can communicate with the server to prevent disconnecting it should improve the load time even more, make it the very first thing your loading coruntine does |
| 19:37.28 | Tekkub | oh wait, I have that with my addons |
| 19:37.40 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, yeah, that's pretty much what I was planning |
| 19:37.43 | Tekkub | and they're too stupid to find the mailinglist I link on every one of them |
| 19:37.47 | ZorbaTHut | I've already got a little post-load thing |
| 19:38.10 | ZorbaTHut | also, if I rig up a way to split the file into multiple loadstring's, I can load more smoothly. although that would be a next-gen thing, I suspect |
| 19:38.50 | Arrowmaster | that shouldnt be necessary |
| 19:39.26 | ZorbaTHut | well, it's about half a second of loading. That's a visible skip. It'd be nice to avoid that. |
| 19:39.53 | batrick | ZorbaTHut: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-load |
| 19:39.54 | ZorbaTHut | and that's on my system too, which is probably a bit heftier than many. |
| 19:40.21 | Thunder_Child | http://fukung.net/v/7422/869.jpg |
| 19:40.29 | *** join/#wowuidev squidbear (n=squidbea@cpe-66-67-132-12.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 19:40.53 | Cheatcakes | pwnt |
| 19:41.01 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, that's kinda neat. I wonder if it would coexist with coroutines |
| 19:42.01 | ZorbaTHut | if so, that would make it quite, quite easy |
| 19:42.11 | Arrowmaster | that doesnt look that useful to me, or does each string have to be loadstring'able seperately without syntax errors? |
| 19:42.11 | batrick | the problem with load in Lua is each time you want to load a piece of your huge file you must reallocate that piece |
| 19:42.29 | batrick | reallocate a piece of that string I mean |
| 19:42.42 | batrick | so in that way it can be a pain in the ass |
| 19:42.47 | batrick | but it will allow you to load things slowly |
| 19:42.56 | ZorbaTHut | well, I assume I'd split it up into strings beforehand, and I'd just provide a pile of strings to the loading function instead of a single monolithic string |
| 19:43.03 | ZorbaTHut | maybe 100k each |
| 19:43.10 | batrick | focus on putting your entire locale information in a string, that's easy for Lua to parse and allocate |
| 19:43.19 | sylvanaar | main <static_esES.lua:0,0> (359876 instructions, 1439504 bytes at 001BE450) |
| 19:43.22 | batrick | load it inside a coroutine with Lua's load function that you call periodically |
| 19:43.45 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, that's probably a good idea |
| 19:43.57 | Tekkub | put it in a string with a nice metatable to pull out each single loacale string you need and cache it :P |
| 19:44.00 | batrick | I'm not sure what benefits you will see in loadtimes by breaking it up early |
| 19:44.10 | batrick | honestly I don't think you'll see a significant benefit |
| 19:44.16 | Arrowmaster | im confused |
| 19:44.21 | Arrowmaster | wouldnt breaking it up increase load time |
| 19:44.23 | ZorbaTHut | well, a 30% load speed boost is worth some effort |
| 19:44.36 | ZorbaTHut | arrow, slightly, but I'm not too concerned about the CPU involved in parsing 1000 tokens instead of 50 |
| 19:44.44 | ZorbaTHut | it's the parsing of 100,000+ tokens that becomes a problem |
| 19:44.45 | Arrowmaster | does load() just concat all the returns then pass them to loadstring()? |
| 19:44.52 | batrick | ZorbaTHut: where do you get that number? |
| 19:44.59 | Arrowmaster | or does it actually loadstring each individual string |
| 19:45.04 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, wild speculation. :) |
| 19:45.23 | ZorbaTHut | if I'm splitting it into 100k chunks, that's less than 20 chunks per file, and I can't see any way that could eat less than 1000 tokens |
| 19:45.26 | batrick | if it is from what I said... you are incorrect. I said load time is reduced to a third |
| 19:45.28 | Arrowmaster | somebody make us a test case! |
| 19:45.34 | ZorbaTHut | oh, I thought you said by a third |
| 19:45.43 | ZorbaTHut | well, by a third would fit with the behavior I'm seeing, while *to* a third wouldn't |
| 19:45.59 | ZorbaTHut | still, more testing required, I only tried once and it's kind of intrinsically prone to measuring errors |
| 19:46.03 | batrick | basically, you get a 300% speedup |
| 19:46.30 | batrick | start by having the file as a single string. I'm not convinced that breaking it up during load time will help |
| 19:47.35 | Arrowmaster | i think breaking it up will hurt, im writing a test case right now |
| 19:47.42 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, provide it broken up slightly into (perhaps) 10-20 pieces. it shouldn't slow down parsing substantially |
| 19:47.50 | ZorbaTHut | and it makes it much faster to load during runtime |
| 19:48.46 | sylvanaar | QuestHelper_File["static_esES.lua"]="0.78"QuestHelper_Loadtime["static_esES.lua"]=GetTime()if GetLocale()~="esES"then return end |
| 19:48.55 | sylvanaar | wheres the rest |
| 19:49.10 | sylvanaar | just split that file into 10 |
| 19:49.37 | Arrowmaster | again i fail to see how this will reduce load time until its proven with a test case |
| 19:49.41 | ZorbaTHut | the rest is a gigantic 2-meg blob of tokens after that :P |
| 19:50.21 | ZorbaTHut | well, a test case is gonna take a nontrivial amount of time, and right now I'm making some food and then playing World of Goo and then working on more pressing concerns. So it'll be a bit. But once I get around to this semi-fix, I'll let you know. :) |
| 19:51.39 | batrick | btw, ZorbaTHut, thanks for making QH it has saved me a lot of time in my questing :) |
| 19:51.57 | ZorbaTHut | no prob, although I wasn't the original author, I'm just the relatively-recent maintainer :) |
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| 19:54.56 | Thunder_Child | http://fukung.net/v/10906/244f66b3473a040287fb5d1f26cc4ad5.jpg |
| 19:56.47 | sylvanaar | has anyone figured out how to run carbonite.lua in a stock lua interpreter? |
| 19:57.57 | Arrowmaster | batrick: having issues with load(), does it not like the same string passed more than once? |
| 19:59.02 | Shirik | sylvanaar: why doesn't it run? |
| 19:59.16 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: it exploits some eof bug |
| 19:59.35 | Shirik | to intentioanlly crash the interpreter? |
| 19:59.36 | Arrowmaster | that doesnt effect wow |
| 19:59.42 | Arrowmaster | yes we assume |
| 19:59.44 | Shirik | oh I'm tearing that thing apart now |
| 19:59.54 | Anaral | Lol |
| 20:00.05 | Shirik | but it'll have to wait until I get home :( |
| 20:00.11 | sylvanaar | the wow interprer doesnt care about unterminated strings |
| 20:00.45 | Arrowmaster | ? |
| 20:00.59 | Shirik | Any mac users online? |
| 20:01.11 | Shirik | and/or people who play WoW on Linux? |
| 20:01.16 | sylvanaar | unfinished string near <eof> |
| 20:01.24 | Shirik | I need to know some good default install directories |
| 20:03.27 | Thunder_Child | http://fukung.net/v/6690/scene.jpg |
| 20:04.04 | Thunder_Child | http://fukung.net/v/8477/4b4056f7c51c0de2ae5fd5b72fdb0198.gif |
| 20:04.46 | selckin | Shirik: /Applications/World\ of\ Warcraft/ on mine |
| 20:08.43 | Shirik | is that mac or linux? |
| 20:08.45 | Shirik | that's mac right? |
| 20:09.14 | zenzelezz | I doubt there is a good standard on Linux |
| 20:10.00 | krka | ~/.wine/drive_c/wow/ on minw |
| 20:10.01 | krka | *mine |
| 20:10.35 | krka | ~/.wine/drive_c/Program\ Files/World\ of\ Warcraft/ should be fairly common in wine too |
| 20:11.50 | Guest78766 | Yeah I was expecting something in .wine really |
| 20:11.54 | Guest78766 | ... wrong screen >.> |
| 20:13.12 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 20:13.12 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 20:13.35 | Shirik | thanks krka |
| 20:15.23 | batrick | Arrowmaster: that shouldn't make a difference |
| 20:15.58 | Arrowmaster | batrick: it did, i had to make the string unique for each one |
| 20:16.09 | batrick | ZorbaTHut: better stop now WoW took out the load function for some reason, at least in my client |
| 20:16.51 | ZorbaTHut | batrick, bah |
| 20:16.54 | ZorbaTHut | I was sort of expecting that :P |
| 20:17.02 | ZorbaTHut | well, so much for the easy solution |
| 20:18.16 | batrick | !lua _G.a = 0; local a = 0; function testme() a = a + 1; if a == 3 then return nil else return "a = a + 1\n" end end assert(load(testme))() return _G.a |
| 20:18.16 | batbot | batrick: > 2 |
| 20:18.20 | batrick | Arrowmaster: ^ |
| 20:18.27 | batrick | seems to work fine for me |
| 20:19.11 | batrick | ZorbaTHut: you can simulate the load function in an extremely dirty hack using loadstring |
| 20:19.16 | batrick | give me a sec to cook it up ;) |
| 20:19.27 | Arrowmaster | batrick: try with more, mine ran twice then stoped |
| 20:19.33 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, that's probably what I'll end up doing :) |
| 20:19.41 | ZorbaTHut | but, seriously, I'm not gonna be working on this for a while |
| 20:19.53 | ZorbaTHut | so don't spend a lot of effort on it (unless you're having fun of course ;) ) |
| 20:20.37 | Arrowmaster | my test case didnt show much improve ment and it took 3 seconds to run |
| 20:21.17 | batrick | Arrowmaster: give me a testcase or abuse the bot in #babot to show me |
| 20:22.22 | batrick | #batbot ** |
| 20:23.59 | Xinhuan | what are we arguing about? |
| 20:24.12 | Arrowmaster | load() vs loadstring() |
| 20:24.18 | Xinhuan | and what about it? |
| 20:28.21 | batrick | there is no arguing |
| 20:29.18 | Xinhuan | rephrase then, what are you discussing about? |
| 20:29.34 | batrick | basically load lets you do what loadstring doesn't |
| 20:29.43 | batrick | and unfortunately load is not in the wow client |
| 20:30.02 | Xinhuan | ah |
| 20:31.09 | Arrowmaster | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/105106 |
| 20:31.16 | Arrowmaster | unless thats flawed? |
| 20:33.25 | Arrowmaster | im still not seeing the purpose of load() |
| 20:34.33 | Sam-L | if (!getLAid()) dropLoad(); |
| 20:38.07 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: you mean purpose of load() over loadstring( |
| 20:38.11 | Shirik | ? |
| 20:38.22 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 20:38.38 | Shirik | load() is a little more generic |
| 20:38.45 | Shirik | it allows you to load buffers at a time |
| 20:38.49 | Shirik | putting all the pieces together |
| 20:39.01 | Arrowmaster | couldnt you do that anyway with loadstring? |
| 20:39.08 | Shirik | you can't do that with loadstring because you need to cat it all at once |
| 20:39.15 | Shirik | and then call loadstring |
| 20:39.30 | Shirik | s/it all at once/it all yourself/ |
| 20:39.44 | Arrowmaster | ok so load really does load each string and doesnt concat them? |
| 20:39.51 | Shirik | You can certainly cat it together yourself, but it would be horribly inefficient |
| 20:39.52 | Cidan | So |
| 20:39.58 | Arrowmaster | so each string must be able to be loadstringed without syntax errors? |
| 20:40.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:40.12 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:40.12 | Shirik | load() does the compilation or bytecode-ization on-the-fly, building the chunk as it goes |
| 20:40.18 | Shirik | which is far more efficien |
| 20:40.31 | Cidan | This guy wants me to put his changes into OpenRDX like, -now- and release -now-. I told him I would look at his changes, and see about it, I'm slightly busy. |
| 20:40.33 | Shirik | typing into irssi with 1500ms ping is very difficult |
| 20:40.54 | Cidan | So, he forks OpenRDX, and literally holds us for ransom, saying, "I'll stop my release if you put in my changes and release it." |
| 20:41.03 | Cidan | I tell him to fuck off, so you know what he does? |
| 20:41.12 | Cidan | He gets his dad to post on the forums. |
| 20:41.15 | Cidan | The end. |
| 20:41.19 | Anaral | LOL |
| 20:41.28 | Tekkub | so abuse your copyright? |
| 20:41.53 | Cidan | http://www.openrdx.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=515 |
| 20:42.09 | Cidan | http://www.openrdx.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=511 |
| 20:42.40 | Cidan | BSD license; I don't have a problem with the fork, I have a problem with his shitty 'tude. |
| 20:43.42 | batrick | perhaps he took fuck off literally and went to his dad, apparently the father wasn't very happy about that |
| 20:44.08 | Cidan | Oh I was kind about it, I didn't literally say fuck off, but it amounted to that. |
| 20:44.17 | batrick | too bad |
| 20:44.45 | Cralor` | Hey. quick question here. i am trying to move several frames using 1 SetPoint. it does work but i am having a little bit of issues with the appearance that it brings. should i even bother or should i just make seperate SetPoints? |
| 20:44.54 | Cralor` | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/105107 |
| 20:45.09 | Anaral | Thanks Cidan. |
| 20:45.24 | Cidan | Anaral: Quite welcome |
| 20:45.29 | Cidan | Cralor`: Looking at your code now, =D |
| 20:45.48 | Cidan | Cralor`: First, you are setting the point to center |
| 20:45.53 | Cralor` | i had it working but then found out i was switching the order of the runes |
| 20:46.02 | Cralor` | yea i am setting the first Rune to the center |
| 20:46.14 | Cralor` | and i am trying to move all 5 others side by side |
| 20:46.22 | Cidan | What I suggest you do first, instead of center |
| 20:46.28 | Cidan | is frame:ClearAllPoints(); |
| 20:46.53 | batrick | Arrowmaster: that code runs fine for me |
| 20:46.57 | Cidan | See, what you're doing is setting -all- your frames to center |
| 20:47.02 | Cidan | then readjusting it |
| 20:47.18 | Arrowmaster | batrick: yeah it wasnt running fine before i added the \n |
| 20:48.01 | Cralor` | Cidan: wonderful! thanks |
| 20:48.04 | Cidan | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/105108 |
| 20:48.07 | Cidan | Try this |
| 20:48.50 | Cidan | also hm |
| 20:48.50 | Cralor` | yea i did a little different but that is what i did. thanks ;) |
| 20:49.37 | Cidan | that might bug out, you're adjusting positions for things in a loop that may not exist |
| 20:49.53 | Cidan | ie: you have 5 things in that table, and you are doing runes[i+1] |
| 20:50.02 | Cidan | when you get to the 5th item, it will spit an error |
| 20:50.10 | Cidan | because there is no 6th item in the table (i+1) |
| 20:50.24 | Cralor` | i had it working with [i-1] but then i realized i was flipping the runes order |
| 20:50.37 | Cidan | So then adjust the way you are anchoring |
| 20:50.44 | Cidan | anchor left to right |
| 20:52.30 | Cralor` | with your pastey it is just moving the first rune now |
| 20:52.55 | Cralor` | so |
| 20:52.58 | Cralor` | i is not greater than 1 |
| 20:53.14 | Cralor` | but that is what i was using to make everything but Rune 1 move |
| 20:53.42 | Cidan | odd |
| 20:53.51 | Cidan | do a print(i); at the top of the loop |
| 20:54.02 | Cidan | is it doing 1 2 3 4 5 6? |
| 20:54.41 | Cralor` | just '1' and '2' |
| 20:54.45 | Cralor` | on seperate lines |
| 20:54.49 | Cidan | then uh |
| 20:54.54 | Cidan | you're missing 4 frames? |
| 20:54.55 | Cidan | lol |
| 20:54.58 | Cralor` | lol |
| 20:55.12 | Cidan | Anyway, brb, shower, seriously, D= |
| 20:55.42 | Cralor` | sure |
| 21:01.31 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 21:10.51 | Cidan | \o/ Horray for Tem! |
| 21:11.02 | Tem | huwha? |
| 21:14.13 | Cidan | Oh nothing |
| 21:25.57 | *** join/#wowuidev hipjipp (n=hipjipp@c83-250-123-168.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 21:30.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Gngsk (n=Gngsk@c-69-138-214-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:32.07 | Tekkub | bum BUM bum BUM bum BUM SEFFY ROF! |
| 21:32.17 | Tekkub | damn you æ¤æ¾ä¼¸å¤« - [Dear Friends: Music From Final Fantasy #01] Liberi Fatali |
| 21:37.31 | hipjipp | lol tekkub =) |
| 21:56.25 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 22:09.01 | foxlit | eh |
| 22:09.16 | foxlit | The old l60 honor gear is still expensive as #@$@. |
| 22:10.28 | Sam-L | yeah |
| 22:10.30 | Sam-L | its pretty gay |
| 22:10.33 | Sam-L | that you spend honor |
| 22:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (n=Ycarene@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 22:10.46 | Sam-L | its also gay you need so much exp to level |
| 22:11.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Grissom (n=Grissom@206.75.115.46) |
| 22:14.01 | Corrodias | and the way they make you push more than one button |
| 22:14.06 | Corrodias | if you want to Win |
| 22:14.09 | Sam-L | lol |
| 22:14.12 | Sam-L | i dnno |
| 22:14.27 | Sam-L | it seems like there is a lot of grinding |
| 22:14.31 | foxlit | Where, indeed, is my chest of tier 42? |
| 22:14.33 | Sam-L | that anybody can do |
| 22:14.44 | Sam-L | I just want to be 80 and raid |
| 22:14.52 | Sam-L | Although even the raids are all easy |
| 22:15.12 | Sam-L | the hardest thing is dealing with the subpar players you usually have filling up your extra 25 man slots |
| 22:15.19 | Corrodias | i don't mind easy if it's fun |
| 22:15.32 | Sam-L | I suppose |
| 22:15.43 | Sam-L | But leveling is _not_ fun :/ |
| 22:16.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Risky (n=fcrick@c-98-203-230-165.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 22:16.20 | Corrodias | i won't play WoW any more, myself |
| 22:16.21 | foxlit | Grinding raid content is worse, really. |
| 22:16.26 | Sam-L | ah |
| 22:16.32 | Corrodias | i don't really know what 3.0 and above are like |
| 22:16.38 | Sam-L | well i told my friend i'd hit 80 and do it so i gotta |
| 22:16.40 | Sam-L | bu |
| 22:16.47 | Sam-L | yeah im pretty much not playing mostly |
| 22:16.50 | foxlit | At least the scenery and storyline changes as you level; welcome to 52 weeks of running the same four instances if you raid :) |
| 22:16.50 | Sam-L | maybe i should bot |
| 22:17.14 | Sam-L | foxlit yeah i know |
| 22:17.21 | Sam-L | i just want to see it all once |
| 22:17.22 | Sam-L | and call i ta day |
| 22:17.23 | Corrodias | i got sick of "earning my fun", as i called it |
| 22:17.29 | Sam-L | good call corr |
| 22:17.31 | Sam-L | i play TF2 |
| 22:17.31 | Corrodias | i enjoyed the raiding. i got really tired of farming |
| 22:17.35 | Sam-L | once in a while d2... |
| 22:17.41 | Sam-L | i go outside sometimes as well |
| 22:17.43 | Sam-L | very strange |
| 22:17.53 | Sam-L | You know what is tons of fun |
| 22:17.57 | Sam-L | whiping on gorefiend |
| 22:17.59 | Sam-L | :) |
| 22:18.03 | Corrodias | eventually, our raiding momentum hit a wall when some of our people left, and then there just wasn't any fun. |
| 22:18.29 | Sam-L | eh |
| 22:18.38 | Sam-L | heh |
| 22:18.39 | Sam-L | oh well |
| 22:18.42 | Igor | shame addons can't communicate with outside programs while wow is running |
| 22:18.48 | Igor | that would be so cool |
| 22:18.52 | Sam-L | not really |
| 22:19.46 | Igor | i could be in this irc chan in-game, for example |
| 22:20.20 | Sam-L | I could be sending your gold to myself from irc, for example |
| 22:20.43 | ZorbaTHut | sam, you can already make goldstealer ui mods without needing that |
| 22:20.50 | Sam-L | This just makes it easier |
| 22:20.58 | Sam-L | wouldn't it be sweet to have an addonnet |
| 22:21.04 | ZorbaTHut | not really, you'd still need to get the guy to install an addon |
| 22:21.07 | Sam-L | yeah |
| 22:21.10 | ZorbaTHut | and once he's done that, it's all easy anyway |
| 22:21.17 | Sam-L | but at that rate you'd be putting in perhaps a rootkit and shit |
| 22:21.21 | Sam-L | it'd be all sorts of stupid |
| 22:21.37 | Igor | well, you don't need what i'm talking about for that |
| 22:21.50 | Sam-L | no |
| 22:21.55 | Igor | ppl who steal passwords could just install addons silently its not hard |
| 22:22.02 | Sam-L | yah |
| 22:22.12 | Sam-L | regardless |
| 22:22.22 | Igor | i don't know how they get on your machine but once they're on they can do anything |
| 22:22.22 | Sam-L | its really bad from blizz's pov |
| 22:22.41 | Igor | anyone know what the frame is called that displays your current target? |
| 22:23.16 | Sam-L | ill look |
| 22:24.05 | Igor | maybe UnitFrame? |
| 22:24.06 | Arrowmaster | TargetFrame |
| 22:24.25 | Sam-L | Sounds reasonible |
| 22:24.26 | squidbear | Yep |
| 22:24.45 | squidbear | Oh Arrowmaster, the menu code you gave me doesn't seem to work. :\ |
| 22:24.54 | squidbear | But I don't get any errors either... |
| 22:25.14 | Arrowmaster | hmm |
| 22:26.07 | Arrowmaster | ckknight: you have rightclick targetframe menu in pitbull4 yet? |
| 22:26.19 | ckknight | that's always been in :-P |
| 22:26.35 | ckknight | Set Focus fails hardcore, though |
| 22:26.40 | Arrowmaster | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/105110-2gks:105090-15k4 |
| 22:26.44 | Arrowmaster | whats wrong with that then |
| 22:26.55 | Arrowmaster | other than that it wont show or hide the target frame incombat |
| 22:30.10 | Igor | is there a library out there for messing with right click menus? |
| 22:30.26 | Igor | i want to add additional options to the right click menu of your target |
| 22:30.41 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@75-164-153-84.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 22:31.19 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 22:31.30 | cbreak | Clique can do that |
| 22:31.31 | Arrowmaster | since if you mess with that menu you break stuff |
| 22:31.35 | cbreak | if you bind right clicking |
| 22:31.43 | Tekkub | depends on *how* you mess with it |
| 22:32.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=narg@125-239-25-98.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 22:34.40 | zenzelezz | so... |
| 22:35.02 | zenzelezz | a visit to Cot:Stratholme on a Saturday night turns into a philisophical guild-chat discussion about time travel |
| 22:35.22 | Tekkub | pfft |
| 22:35.37 | Tekkub | what's wrong with fucking your grandpa? |
| 22:35.44 | Tekkub | (back in time of course) |
| 22:35.51 | Aiiane | ... |
| 22:36.23 | Tekkub | in present day, yea that'd be bad |
| 22:36.23 | Corrodias | i can only WISH i could do something like that. |
| 22:37.28 | squidbear | Arrowmaster, I have to go...if cknight responds would you mind posting what he says in my thread? :3 |
| 22:43.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Aii_ (n=Aiiane@knuth.cs.hmc.edu) |
| 23:00.54 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin (n=quoin@122-49-135-137.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 23:03.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 23:03.08 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 23:03.48 | Industrial | ~seen tuller |
| 23:03.49 | purl | tuller <n=muffins@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 3d 1h 30m 35s ago, saying: 'luck roll in guild group? :P'. |
| 23:04.12 | Industrial | I have a question about dominos |
| 23:04.39 | Industrial | I'd like to only show 6 buttons at a time, and page them to different bars when I hold modifiers |
| 23:04.51 | Industrial | thats possible with dominos but only allows up to 4 bars |
| 23:04.53 | Industrial | I'd like 8 |
| 23:05.10 | cbreak | you have 8 modifiers? |
| 23:05.16 | Industrial | normal, shift, ctrl, alt, shift-ctrl, shift-alt, ctrl-alt, shift-ctrl-alt |
| 23:05.18 | cbreak | hmm... maybe modifier combinations |
| 23:05.22 | Industrial | ;) |
| 23:05.48 | Industrial | this allows for 48 actions on 9 buttons |
| 23:05.54 | Industrial | all reachable. |
| 23:06.22 | cbreak | but non-intuitive. |
| 23:06.28 | Industrial | when you right click a bar in config mode you get its settings, theres a dropdown option "Show States" and I bet its possible with that, but I have no idea what exactly to put there. |
| 23:07.21 | Industrial | its non-intuitive because you dont see all buttons, but if you know that shift-control is your heals and you have a set row oh heals eg short long chain cure poison cure disease then I know exactly what to press when |
| 23:08.18 | cbreak | no, non-intuitive because you have to press up to four buttons per action |
| 23:09.18 | Industrial | well my ctrl is on the caps key anyway :P |
| 23:09.51 | Aiiane | cbreak: the secret there is binding, say, mouse4 to ctrl+shift |
| 23:09.52 | cbreak | ... |
| 23:09.52 | Aiiane | etc |
| 23:10.01 | Aiiane | that way you actually have 8 different modifier "keys" |
| 23:10.08 | cbreak | then you'd have to reach over to the mouse to play? even worse :) |
| 23:10.34 | Aiiane | if you're playing a healer, and not playing with a mouse, i pity you |
| 23:10.58 | Industrial | if you're playing a healer, i pity you |
| 23:10.59 | cbreak | oh, no, if I would play a healer, I would not play anymore |
| 23:11.03 | Industrial | (hehe too easy) |
| 23:11.13 | Aiiane | actually, if you're playing most classes without a mouse, i pity you |
| 23:11.20 | Aiiane | and pfft Industrial :P |
| 23:11.23 | cbreak | mages are easy :) |
| 23:11.33 | cbreak | only thing I need the mouse for is looting and decursing |
| 23:11.35 | cbreak | and buffing |
| 23:11.35 | Aiiane | in pve, maybe |
| 23:11.44 | cbreak | PvP is a waste of time :) |
| 23:11.54 | Aiiane | one could say the same for PvE |
| 23:11.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-167-195-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:12.03 | Industrial | Antiarc: you ! |
| 23:12.20 | cbreak | you could try to say it. but it would most likely look wrong... |
| 23:12.24 | Industrial | you dont know it yet, but you are going to hel me with show states in dominos. |
| 23:12.27 | cbreak | it would look so... wrong |
| 23:12.54 | Antiarc | what |
| 23:12.58 | Antiarc | I've never used dominies |
| 23:12.58 | Industrial | yeah. |
| 23:13.02 | Antiarc | or whatever |
| 23:13.06 | Aiiane | the question is cbreak, what do you get from pve which you do not get from pvp? :) |
| 23:13.14 | Industrial | damn :P what actionbar do you use |
| 23:13.17 | cbreak | fun. |
| 23:13.22 | Antiarc | BT4 |
| 23:13.26 | Aiiane | but fun is purely subjective :) |
| 23:13.29 | cbreak | new content |
| 23:13.36 | cbreak | new encounters to crack |
| 23:13.46 | Aiiane | in some sense, pvp has more new content than pve can ever hope to |
| 23:13.48 | Industrial | Antiarc: can bartender4 swap bars on shift-ctrl alt-ctrl etc? |
| 23:13.51 | Aiiane | and in other senses, it does not |
| 23:14.08 | Antiarc | I dunno, my action bar usage is super-light |
| 23:14.22 | Antiarc | It might, nevcairiel has put a lot of work into making it awesome |
| 23:16.35 | nevcairiel | bartender can swap or show bars on anything |
| 23:16.39 | Thunder_Child | *snicker* i put in isbn 0-13-187462-4 into google and got back "0 - 13 - 187 462 - 4 = -187 479" in googles calc |
| 23:16.43 | nevcairiel | (anything macros can do) |
| 23:18.38 | Aiiane | Thunder_Child: use "ISBN-10:0-13-187462-4" (no quotes) |
| 23:18.52 | Thunder_Child | Aiiane, i got what i wanted, i just found it amusing |
| 23:18.56 | Thunder_Child | thanks though :) |
| 23:19.34 | Aiiane | alternatively |
| 23:19.38 | Aiiane | just go to books.google.com |
| 23:19.42 | Aiiane | and then use "isbn:ISBN-10:0-13-187462-4" |
| 23:19.43 | Aiiane | er |
| 23:19.48 | Aiiane | and then use "isbn:0-13-187462-4" |
| 23:19.58 | Aiiane | and it'll pull up the exact book ;) |
| 23:20.44 | Aiiane | including details, other editions, and purchase links :P |
| 23:21.09 | Thunder_Child | feeling the need to be helpful atm Aiiane? |
| 23:22.37 | Industrial | "buttplugs for dummies" |
| 23:22.39 | Industrial | xD |
| 23:23.10 | Thunder_Child | i saw a buttplug tail that i thought would be right up Tekkub's alley |
| 23:23.20 | Tekkub | I never got those |
| 23:23.33 | Thunder_Child | didnt care for them? |
| 23:23.34 | Industrial | nevcairiel: ping |
| 23:23.39 | Tekkub | yes, buttplugs are fun, yes it'd be fun to have a tail |
| 23:23.45 | Tekkub | but together, nah |
| 23:23.57 | Thunder_Child | really? seems to be a win-win scenario |
| 23:24.16 | Tekkub | well for one, when you stand up it'd be at totally the wrong angle |
| 23:24.25 | Tekkub | it'd just look like you were shitting hair |
| 23:24.46 | Thunder_Child | not sure the idea is to stand up |
| 23:24.59 | Tekkub | plus I just want a lil stumpy bear tail ^^ |
| 23:25.17 | Aiiane | this is not a conversation i expected to see in this channel o.o |
| 23:25.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 23:25.25 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 23:25.26 | Tekkub | you're new then |
| 23:25.32 | Thunder_Child | Aiiane, this is worse than yours |
| 23:25.54 | zenzelezz | Shirik, you're right on time |
| 23:25.58 | zenzelezz | we were just talking about you |
| 23:26.01 | Aiiane | ...wait, what? |
| 23:26.06 | Shirik | uh |
| 23:26.08 | Thunder_Child | lol zenzelezz |
| 23:26.08 | Shirik | ok... |
| 23:26.42 | Tekkub | Shirik, we need your deciding vote |
| 23:27.00 | Tekkub | buttplug tails, fun, or just make you look like you're shitting hair? |
| 23:27.03 | Shirik | :Tekkub!n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub PRIVMSG #WoWUIDev :+plus I just want a lil stumpy bear tail ^^ |
| 23:27.05 | Shirik | wtf? |
| 23:27.26 | Thunder_Child | you are correct though Tekkub, i cant seem to find a bear version of one |
| 23:27.36 | Tekkub | see? what fun is that |
| 23:27.40 | Shirik | buttplug tails? |
| 23:27.47 | Tekkub | buttplug tails |
| 23:27.58 | Shirik | that is? |
| 23:28.00 | Cide | imo |
| 23:28.04 | Cide | I prefer buttplug sonic |
| 23:28.14 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, http://www.tranism.com/weblog/images/foxtail-buttplug.jpg |
| 23:28.27 | Shirik | er... |
| 23:28.36 | Industrial | oh god what did I start |
| 23:28.42 | Tekkub | how do you wash it? just the usual clothes washer? |
| 23:28.54 | Tekkub | probably can't dry it with heat or you'll fuck up the fur |
| 23:28.58 | Aiiane | im blaming you for this Industrial >< |
| 23:29.02 | Thunder_Child | air dry |
| 23:29.04 | zenzelezz | ... and Cairenn thinks we're weird |
| 23:29.22 | Shirik | I'm not sure how I can classify that as "fun" though if it isn't uncomfortable I could see it |
| 23:29.23 | Thunder_Child | wait wait wait...isnt this normal for the intertubes? |
| 23:29.57 | Thunder_Child | and you are right Aiiane, it is Industrial's fault |
| 23:30.04 | foxlit | Intertubes? This is INTERNET! |
| 23:30.09 | Tekkub | really, using a "normal" buttplug seems to be inapropriate here |
| 23:30.25 | foxlit | (those italics brought to you by: awkward shortcuts) |
| 23:30.27 | Tekkub | there's plenty or "realistic" toys out there |
| 23:30.41 | Shirik | I was considering going into shiibot's logs to figure out how this came up |
| 23:30.45 | Shirik | but I think I'd rather not now |
| 23:30.49 | Thunder_Child | i think the pig tail buttplug bothers me the most |
| 23:30.50 | Industrial | sorry Aiiane :( didnt know the Tekkub was lurking |
| 23:31.01 | Industrial | the word buttplug must have set off some alarms |
| 23:31.05 | foxlit | qq at more logging :( |
| 23:31.09 | Tekkub | Thunder_Child, corkscrew on both sides? |
| 23:31.11 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 23:31.26 | Thunder_Child | Tekkub, juat onw....but that would be interesting |
| 23:31.28 | Thunder_Child | one* |
| 23:31.39 | Tekkub | again, needs realism! |
| 23:31.45 | zenzelezz | Shirik: it started with Industrial wanting peculiar actionbars |
| 23:31.47 | Tekkub | pig tail should have a pig plug |
| 23:31.53 | Shirik | foxlit: It's more of just a debug log, to see if he's working correctly :) |
| 23:31.55 | Shirik | It's a pita to read |
| 23:32.01 | foxlit | Boo, hiss, boo! |
| 23:32.26 | Tekkub | IMMUNE |
| 23:32.33 | Shirik | Aiiane: He's a druid, he eats crushing blows for breakfast |
| 23:32.42 | Shirik | or is that Tem |
| 23:32.58 | nevcairiel | crushings are a thing of the past |
| 23:33.01 | nevcairiel | get with 3.0 Shirik |
| 23:33.03 | Shirik | shh nevcairiel |
| 23:33.04 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 23:33.09 | Thunder_Child | Tekkub, how about a bunny tail? |
| 23:33.09 | foxlit | Meh, Shirik is a level 84 mob. |
| 23:33.22 | Tekkub | do I look like a fucking rabbit? |
| 23:33.24 | foxlit | Hence, crushing blows. |
| 23:33.38 | Thunder_Child | do you want an answer to that? |
| 23:33.38 | Shirik | Tekkub: Haven't you ever watched monty python's holy grail |
| 23:33.48 | Shirik | Being called a rabbit is a compliment |
| 23:34.16 | Tekkub | not when ya like bears :P |
| 23:34.31 | foxlit | Bears are the #1 threat to Azeroth. |
| 23:34.39 | foxlit | Arthas came in at a distant third. |
| 23:34.51 | Tekkub | artie's not scary at all |
| 23:34.57 | Thunder_Child | so, someone seems to have put a tail buttplug up on a bridal regestry |
| 23:34.58 | Shirik | Arthas keeps letting me live |
| 23:35.01 | Tekkub | DEATH TO THE LIVING! *sigh* |
| 23:35.09 | Thunder_Child | along with an "anal ring toss" |
| 23:35.16 | Corrodias | wait what |
| 23:35.29 | Aiiane | um |
| 23:35.31 | Tekkub | see it's thun, he just can't move on |
| 23:35.32 | Aiiane | i really dont want to know |
| 23:35.39 | Tekkub | get your damn tail already, geez |
| 23:35.47 | Corrodias | what's a bridal registry? |
| 23:35.47 | Thunder_Child | what? i got sidetracked |
| 23:35.54 | Tekkub | stop making it sound like you're only doing this for me |
| 23:36.12 | Tekkub | also, rommie's snoring... almost as cute as when she sneezes |
| 23:36.14 | Aiiane | Corrodias: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_registry |
| 23:36.31 | Corrodias | you and your "put some effort into learning" ideals |
| 23:37.46 | Tekkub | you want from schoolbooks to furry toys, nice |
| 23:38.02 | Corrodias | interesting. that sounds pretty handy, for people who do weddings |
| 23:38.02 | Tekkub | schoolbooks are a waste of money, BTW :) |
| 23:38.21 | Thunder_Child | Tekkub, tell that to my teachers |
| 23:38.29 | Tekkub | the real thing about registries is not the usefulness they advertise |
| 23:38.37 | Tekkub | it's that you can find out what people got you |
| 23:38.43 | Aiiane | :P |
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