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| 00:08.10 | Tekkub | I love my mother's logic |
| 00:08.21 | Tekkub | "Ann doesn't get off till 6:30 so you can come up late" |
| 00:08.31 | Tekkub | it's 5, she just called whining that we're not there |
| 00:09.05 | Hirsute | Okay, I've got a function: function myFunc(word) myDB.words[word] = true end. When this runs, I get a "table index is nil" error. Anyone able to give me a little clearer picture of what that error is trying to tell me? |
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| 00:09.42 | Tekkub | Hirsute, word == nil |
| 00:09.43 | nevcairiel | that word is nil |
| 00:10.25 | Hirsute | Aaah. Interesting... perhaps that means I'm using select incorrectly. |
| 00:11.46 | Hirsute | so If I have a list: myList = foo, bar; and I do myFirst = select(1,myList); if myFirst == "foo" then mySecond = select(2,myList) end; should that work, or am I using it incorrectly? |
| 00:12.01 | Iriel | select(2, Tekkub, Hirsute, nevcariel) ==> Hirsute, nevcariel |
| 00:12.18 | Iriel | select has nothing to do with ARRAYS |
| 00:12.42 | Iriel | and there's no multivalued non-table(array) type in lua |
| 00:12.55 | Iriel | (except arguably ..., but that's just a wierd special case) |
| 00:13.08 | Iriel | so either you've got myList = { "foo", "bar" } |
| 00:13.12 | Iriel | in which case it's a table/array |
| 00:13.30 | Iriel | and you want myFirst = myList[1]; and mySecond - myList[2]; |
| 00:13.31 | Hirsute | Iriel: I get myList by doing a strsplit(here is my string), what do I end up with? |
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| 00:13.51 | Iriel | ah, that returns many values, but you can't /assign/ that to anything without losing the multiple values |
| 00:14.15 | Iriel | so you can do... |
| 00:14.35 | Iriel | return select(2, strsplit(stufff...)) and it'll return the 2'nd, 3rd, ... returns |
| 00:14.47 | Iriel | but you can't do result = strsplit(stuff.....) |
| 00:14.54 | Hirsute | well, strsplit(" ", here is my string), but anyway |
| 00:14.55 | Iriel | because result just contains the FIRST of the values |
| 00:15.07 | Hirsute | Okay, that makes sense, I suppose. |
| 00:15.09 | Iriel | depending on what you need to do with it you have two choices |
| 00:15.53 | Iriel | first is to use a closure and ..., function processSplitResult(...) second = select(2, ...) fourth = select(4, ...) end; processSplitResult(split(" ",sakfaskfgksdfjs)) |
| 00:16.08 | Iriel | second is a temporary table local resultArray = { strsplit(" ", kfjaskfgals) } |
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| 00:16.58 | Iriel | the appropriate choice depends somewhat on what you need to do |
| 00:17.37 | Hirsute | Iriel: It's in a slash command handler. So a user issues "/myaddon command param1 param2" where the number of parameters (0, 1 or 2) depends on what the command is. I'm trying to deal with that case. |
| 00:18.10 | Iriel | Then you can probably use a redirect closure... |
| 00:18.24 | Hirsute | Okay. |
| 00:18.29 | Iriel | function handleSplitCommand(cmd, ...) MY_COMMAND_HANDLERS[cmd](...) end |
| 00:18.39 | Iriel | (Obviously real code would check that cmd was valid first) |
| 00:18.54 | Iriel | handleSplitCommand(strsplit(" ", message)) |
| 00:19.00 | Iriel | would dispatch the right sub-command |
| 00:19.03 | Iriel | if that's what you're after |
| 00:19.27 | Hirsute | Okay, thanks for straightening me out! |
| 00:19.40 | p3lim | Anyone know when the ingame presents are avalible? |
| 00:20.03 | Hirsute | p3lim on Christmas day (wherever the server resides) |
| 00:20.05 | Hirsute | So, tomorrow for US servers. |
| 00:20.19 | Iriel | If you want to get your head into the 'lua' way of understanding why it works the way it does (and when it works the way it does), the |
| 00:20.31 | Iriel | the "list style" mechanics are all based around the lua value stack |
| 00:20.35 | p3lim | EU GT |
| 00:20.43 | p3lim | 1:20 here atm |
| 00:20.58 | Iriel | since that's the only place lua can store multiple values without allocating dedicated heap for them |
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| 00:25.53 | sylvanaar | do you know Iriel for iterating over a list of return values, is a for loop better, or CPS and tail recursion |
| 00:26.27 | sylvanaar | or just tail recursion actually |
| 00:26.53 | Iriel | The correct answer is going to be 'it depends' on where the list came from and where it's going |
| 00:27.33 | Iriel | The REAL answer is usually "doing it in C" |
| 00:27.34 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 00:28.04 | sylvanaar | we had this discussion in a thread recently, having to do with blizzards returning multiple values that are pairs |
| 00:28.06 | Iriel | I haven't found a cleaner approach for general 'process arbitrary numbers of return values without allocating memory' than tail recursion |
| 00:28.44 | Iriel | but if you're planning on ending up with a table anyway, you may well find { } to initialize an array that you then process into the result table is faster and no worse |
| 00:29.14 | Iriel | (no worse memory wise, or only slightly worse, depending on the array size) |
| 00:29.17 | NightHawkTheSane | the japanese are crazy. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/24/boy_toy |
| 00:29.31 | sylvanaar | heres the code for tail recursion: http://forums.wowace.com/showpost.php?p=258141&postcount=16 |
| 00:31.01 | Iriel | if all I was doing was printing then that'd be how it'd approach it |
| 00:31.45 | sylvanaar | rather than select("#", ...) and a for loop |
| 00:32.27 | Iriel | each select is a function call |
| 00:32.45 | Iriel | but i'd be interesting to measure, which i'll now do 8-) |
| 00:37.42 | sylvanaar | heres the listing of the 2 ways: http://lua.pastey.net/105003 |
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| 00:39.29 | sylvanaar | 20 instructions vs 13, if i coded them correctly |
| 00:39.52 | Iriel | I timed it, tailcall is faster for 20, 200, and 2000 items in the list |
| 00:40.08 | sylvanaar | thats really interesting |
| 00:40.34 | Iriel | I think it's all the stack copying |
| 00:40.59 | cbreak | what do you mean with tail call? a(b())? |
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| 00:41.16 | Iriel | Once the list gets long, though, you're MUCH better off sticking it in a temporary table |
| 00:41.27 | foxlit | cbreak: return b(); |
| 00:41.40 | sylvanaar | yeah, but if you have 2000 return values god help you |
| 00:41.50 | Iriel | For example, with a list of 2000 enties, 1000 iterations is: tailcall 7.883s, for+select 9.052, temp table: 0.300 s |
| 00:41.56 | cbreak | thanks |
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| 00:44.37 | Iriel | sylvanaar: that was a fun experiment, thanks for asking the question 8-) |
| 00:45.37 | Iriel | By the way, both the tailcall and select loop ones degrade non-linearly with the list size, again, I think once the list becomes fairly big most of the time is spent copying it around on the stack |
| 00:46.47 | sylvanaar | here are the listings for the 3 methods http://lua.pastey.net/105004 |
| 00:48.35 | sylvanaar | whats interesting is the opcodes for the temp table's call to print() |
| 00:49.50 | Iriel | whyso? |
| 00:50.55 | sylvanaar | since it differs from the other 2, instead of 2 moves it does 2 gettables |
| 00:51.11 | Iriel | Because it's obtainnig its values immediately |
| 00:51.20 | Iriel | rather than moving them from a previous location (stack or return stack) |
| 00:52.56 | sylvanaar | the vararg call must be really expensive i guess |
| 00:53.16 | sylvanaar | relatively |
| 00:53.22 | Iriel | not really, it just depends how much is on the stack |
| 00:53.47 | Iriel | (obviously ANY function call is more expensive than 'direct' code) |
| 00:53.52 | sylvanaar | true |
| 00:53.54 | Iriel | (since you have to push state and all that fun stuff) |
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| 00:54.12 | Olorin | is it possible to use a string somehow in the place of a variable name? |
| 00:54.14 | Iriel | tailcalls being cheaper. |
| 00:54.22 | Iriel | Olorin: _G["NAME"] |
| 00:54.40 | Olorin | ooo a simple answer, thanks kindly :) |
| 00:55.09 | Iriel | (or more usefully _g[variableContainingAnotherGlobalsNAme] |
| 00:55.21 | Iriel | _G |
| 00:55.23 | Iriel | not _g |
| 00:55.26 | Iriel | I can type, really |
| 00:56.07 | Olorin | its ok I have that problem too :) Thanks Iriel |
| 00:56.59 | Olorin | silly thing is i'm sure ive read that part of the book, then again.... I think i have a memory buffer of about 6lines or was it 5, shrugs |
| 00:57.36 | Mike-N-Go | When using the EasyMenu() and a text entry box, is there a way to do the command select all, if so, how is the code called? |
| 00:58.42 | Iriel | sylvanaar: I should note that you do need to localize select otherwise the for+select version is much slower |
| 00:59.04 | sylvanaar | true |
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| 01:03.34 | NightHawkTheSane | Iriel: >.> what's the problem with minor research? |
| 01:04.04 | NightHawkTheSane | other than creating a crapton of useless scrolls.. |
| 01:04.47 | Iriel | NightHawkTheSane: Every couple of weeks I need to ride around tirisfal glades at 70 picking peacebloom |
| 01:05.14 | NightHawkTheSane | heh. meh, the last week or two of it I just sucked it up and bought it on the AH |
| 01:05.58 | Iriel | I have mounts to save for |
| 01:07.30 | mikma | http://media.fukung.net/images/8387/68f6dd7f9d002133cd42601866ce24f1.jpg |
| 01:09.22 | Thunder_Child | Tekkub, then go somewhere else...and i meant you could order groceries |
| 01:13.02 | Aiiane | Iriel, could be worse |
| 01:13.13 | Aiiane | it could be some ingredient that *isn't* easy to pick |
| 01:16.33 | mikma | cairenn|afk: http://media.fukung.net/images/2939/amperquila.jpg |
| 01:22.44 | Gnarfoz | http://japanator.com/elephant/post.phtml?pk=9015 |
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| 01:24.40 | Anaral | I want an app that allows me to customize my ui out of game, allowing the user options from all the various ui addons. And when done it compiles a list of the addons used and if it's a pitbull esque addon gives the code too. |
| 01:25.25 | Mike-N-Go | When using the EasyMenu() and a text entry box, is there a way to do the command select all, if so, how is the code called? |
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| 01:27.05 | Anaral | A simulator of sorts that allows me to customize without going through the tedious process of downloading ten billion addons. Make the design phase completely hassle free. :D |
| 01:27.45 | Anaral | All it would be would be a screenshot in the users desired screen resolution. |
| 01:29.29 | Aiiane | can you imagine how many updates said application would have to have |
| 01:30.37 | Aiiane | o.o |
| 01:30.43 | Anaral | I didn't say it was necessarily a practical idea. I just am WoW computerless again and want something to do. |
| 01:30.57 | Anaral | Redoing my UI seems like the perfect thing. |
| 01:31.04 | Iriel | just simulate the entirety of wow |
| 01:31.07 | Iriel | and you wont have to update it |
| 01:31.09 | Cairenn|afk | mikma: rofl |
| 01:31.20 | Anaral | Iriel: lol |
| 01:31.31 | Thunder_Child | Iriel, it was done once non GUI |
| 01:32.06 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: aye, I meant doing it "properly" 8-) |
| 01:32.08 | sylvanaar | you saw the simulater that jerry made right? |
| 01:32.32 | sylvanaar | wow my spelling |
| 01:32.35 | Anaral | lol |
| 01:32.39 | Thunder_Child | Iriel, it would be time consuming more than complicated i would think |
| 01:32.43 | Anaral | Hmm, would that work? |
| 01:32.55 | sylvanaar | its really good what he did |
| 01:32.56 | Anaral | Wouldn't I need to download all the addons still? |
| 01:33.26 | sylvanaar | http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=15357 |
| 01:33.39 | Anaral | sylvanaar: For Jerry's simulator wouldn't I need to download the addons I wanted to test? |
| 01:33.46 | sylvanaar | well yeah |
| 01:33.58 | sylvanaar | how else would you test them |
| 01:34.08 | Anaral | I want the app to have them. :D |
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| 01:34.29 | sylvanaar | how? |
| 01:35.04 | Anaral | I don't know... it's just an idea I had while browsing EJ UI thread. |
| 01:35.58 | Anaral | But I'm sure it'd be possible. Look at all the art apps on the net that let you drag or load elements into a scene. Not all those apps look completely fake either. |
| 01:36.06 | sylvanaar | i dont see how you can get around having the addon you want to test...unless its downloaded for you transparently |
| 01:36.53 | Iriel | Anaral: that only works if your app is based on a framework the tool knows |
| 01:38.26 | Anaral | Hmm. I'm always leary to try to build my UI because of all the guess and test involved. It's like baking a souffle' without even having a recipe. |
| 01:38.52 | Iriel | Well, you could always use photoshop (or free equivalent) and play with hypothetical layouts |
| 01:40.02 | Iriel | I believe thats how blizz start new UI components |
| 01:40.13 | Anaral | But then I'd have to figure out how to implement them into WoW. Which essentially means all I get out of photoshop is a draft |
| 01:40.44 | Anaral | Not saying a draft is bad, but then I'd have to make the concept a reality. |
| 01:40.58 | Anaral | And I already have the concept. |
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| 01:53.43 | MentalPower | so, for a new blog, wordpress or movabletype? (or something else) |
| 01:54.05 | cbreak | textpattern? :) |
| 01:57.05 | Aiiane | um, how much do you want to do with it? |
| 01:58.36 | Aiiane | for just basic blogging, MT and WP are about equivalent, just depends on whether you like perl or php better |
| 01:59.04 | NightHawkTheSane | blogger, and let google do the work? >.> |
| 01:59.22 | Aiiane | well I assumed that if they were asking packages, it's because they wanted to host it on their own webspace |
| 02:00.07 | MentalPower | I want to host it myself, so blogger is out |
| 02:00.13 | Aiiane | if you want to do more than just basic blog entries (image galleries, etc), then Drupal is nice |
| 02:00.35 | MentalPower | drupal, I had forgotten about that one |
| 02:00.50 | Aiiane | drupal is more general CMS, but it has a blog component |
| 02:01.39 | cbreak | I only played around with textpattern. It's highly customizable. |
| 02:02.10 | cbreak | but it's quite inefficient, it uses server side scripting and databases for everything. |
| 02:02.39 | Olorin | Is their another version of IsEquippableItem that actually checks if your character can equip an item rather than if the item is an item for the characters slots clothings slots? |
| 02:03.06 | Aiiane | cbreak, as opposed to what? |
| 02:03.24 | MentalPower | Olorin: since equipping an item is an asynchronous operation, nop |
| 02:03.38 | cbreak | it could generate a file per entry. It doesn't change after all, so regenerating it for every viewer is a waste of cpu time. |
| 02:04.30 | MentalPower | only if you have a shitton of users, a rather large site or a crappy server, but I see your point |
| 02:05.05 | Olorin | MentalPower: thanks, guess i'll have to do all the checks manually ... and there was me thinking to grey out items in the guild bank that wernt usable for the character i was on and within say 5 levels of them was going to be easy |
| 02:05.13 | cbreak | well, the assumption is that each page gets generated at least once. so why regenerate it after that? :) |
| 02:05.23 | Mundy- | just implement a cache |
| 02:05.37 | cbreak | not like the performance of dynamic regeneration is a problem, but it's inefficient :) |
| 02:06.03 | Mundy- | GUIs are inefficient as hell |
| 02:06.16 | Mundy- | but hey they've taken over the world |
| 02:06.29 | cbreak | many optimisations are used nowadays |
| 02:06.37 | MentalPower | I'd go with Mundy, if you were that concerned, do a reverse proxy with squid, or use memcache (if its in PHP) |
| 02:06.48 | Mundy- | the same can be said about dynamic page generation =) |
| 02:06.48 | Aiiane | cbreak, that's what web caches like Squid are for |
| 02:06.56 | cbreak | things like fully buffered windows help quite a bit |
| 02:07.09 | Mundy- | things like well configured caches help quite a bit too =) |
| 02:07.16 | cbreak | not really |
| 02:07.25 | MentalPower | anyways, back to the subject, drupal is a bit much I think |
| 02:07.25 | cbreak | how would you cache parts of a gui? |
| 02:07.38 | Mundy- | i was talking about page generation |
| 02:08.05 | Mundy- | my point is that computers, and life in general is full of inefficiencies |
| 02:08.08 | MentalPower | anyone here used movabletype and wordpress that can give a simple pros cons? |
| 02:08.08 | Iriel | cbreak: Well, caching parts of a gui (window contents anyway) is farily standard, but I suspect that's not what you're asking |
| 02:08.10 | cbreak | yes. creating one static page and serving that. :) |
| 02:08.16 | cbreak | a cache, if you want to call it like that |
| 02:08.20 | Aiiane | MentalPower, really, there aren't huge differences |
| 02:09.01 | Aiiane | if you have experience with either php or perl, and not the other, I'd go with the one in the language you know, in case you ever want to hack on it |
| 02:09.12 | cbreak | just because many things are inefficient, that doesn't mean that we should stop caring about efficient code or designs |
| 02:10.23 | Thunder_Child | *snicker* i saw http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/SylvreWolfe/banner65.jpg and thought of you Tekkub |
| 02:10.25 | Aiiane | mainly, it's because the way a lot of blogs work (with dynamic URLs, tracking, etc), it's going to end up hitting the database regardless |
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| 02:10.35 | MentalPower | Aiiane: I'm pretty well versed in both, I think I'll go with MT |
| 02:11.33 | Aiiane | and grabbing the post content as well as the metadata from the database, isn't much less efficient than grabbing the metadata from the database, and then grabbing the post data from a file |
| 02:11.59 | cbreak | meta? |
| 02:12.19 | cbreak | are there many cases where the page content depends on who visits the page? |
| 02:12.36 | MentalPower | when a person is logged in, sure |
| 02:12.42 | Iriel | I'm not sure it's safe to talk in wild generalities about caching, it's often very situationally dependent |
| 02:12.43 | MentalPower | dunno how much that applies to blogs |
| 02:12.47 | cbreak | afaik, a blog is like a web readable diary with guest book strapped on |
| 02:12.59 | Aiiane | you have a very limited view of blogs, then :) |
| 02:13.04 | Aiiane | Iriel, quite true |
| 02:13.10 | Aiiane | and it has its own challenges |
| 02:13.16 | Aiiane | such as deciding when to invalidate the cache |
| 02:13.18 | Iriel | Plus, in a complex environment you've often got more servers than databases, so a local file fetch can be a LOT better (holistically) than a DB read |
| 02:13.27 | cbreak | caching is trying to solve a problem that could maybe be prevented |
| 02:13.32 | Aiiane | again true, that depends on the environment :) |
| 02:13.39 | Aiiane | (@ Iriel ) |
| 02:13.55 | Aiiane | prevented.... by caching? :P |
| 02:13.59 | Iriel | intelligent caching is very important, mindless caching is generally a sign of a misunderstood performance issue (or design issue) |
| 02:14.02 | Aiiane | because that's basically what you're suggesting cbreak |
| 02:14.05 | cbreak | by not regenerating |
| 02:14.07 | Aiiane | just at a different layer |
| 02:14.17 | Aiiane | ...caching is exactly that,not regenerating something you've already generated |
| 02:14.32 | cbreak | instead of caching the reply of the server, you would cache the content of the page |
| 02:14.36 | Iriel | Indeed, or not fetching something you've already fetched |
| 02:14.50 | Aiiane | fetching is just another method of generation ;) |
| 02:14.51 | Iriel | In my day job we cache lots of different things at different levels |
| 02:14.58 | Iriel | from "full pages" down to minor pieces of information |
| 02:14.58 | Aiiane | albeit by a remote server and a datalink :P |
| 02:15.12 | Iriel | and the caches are in different places (logically, and physically) |
| 02:15.48 | cbreak | my point is: |
| 02:16.11 | cbreak | textpattern is not designed with efficiency in mind |
| 02:17.30 | Aiiane | but but, it's fun to argue :s |
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| 02:18.09 | cbreak | I think most people who write code these days don't care about that :( |
| 02:20.11 | Iriel | cbreak: efficiently? cleanliness? |
| 02:20.27 | Iriel | cbreak: Too few do, I think most dont UNDERSTAND it, which is the real tradgedy |
| 02:20.49 | cbreak | efficiency. design. |
| 02:20.52 | Aiiane | As the programming field has grown, the quality level hasn't really kept up, it seems |
| 02:21.18 | Mundy- | its because the emphasis on efficiency doesnt need to be as high |
| 02:21.20 | Aiiane | same as almost any mass-produced entity |
| 02:21.28 | Mundy- | what difference does it make if your page loads in 300ms or 100ms |
| 02:21.45 | Mundy- | other than to say "hah, my blog is faster than yours!" |
| 02:21.46 | cbreak | I've seen people asking why one of their programs didn't compile. They had no idea what the program did, just copied it from a "how-to". |
| 02:21.56 | cbreak | for the purpose of learning to program :/ |
| 02:22.24 | Aiiane | it's because programming isn't really seen solely as a "highly technical" field anymore |
| 02:22.40 | Mundy- | people think html is programming |
| 02:22.52 | cbreak | Mundy-: resources on the server are limited. If you can reduce the cost by 50%, you can potentially save half the servers. |
| 02:22.58 | MentalPower | cbreak: I think all tutorials should compile from the getgo, but that |
| 02:23.03 | MentalPower | that's just me |
| 02:23.16 | Mundy- | again, its too situationally dependant |
| 02:23.29 | Mundy- | we can sit here and argue for weeks about solution a or b |
| 02:23.40 | Mundy- | but its pointless because we dont have a scenario to apply it to |
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| 02:24.15 | cbreak | I have seen blogs what stopped working with a cpu time exceeded error |
| 02:24.23 | Mundy- | gratz |
| 02:24.27 | cbreak | probably ran on a v-server |
| 02:24.39 | cbreak | so it's not a completely theoretical problem |
| 02:24.47 | Mundy- | im not saying it is |
| 02:24.58 | Mundy- | im just saying theres more than 1 way to skin a cat |
| 02:25.28 | Mundy- | and your definition of "efficient" isn't any more wrong or right than anyone elses |
| 02:26.11 | cbreak | doing it efficiently has no drawbacks as such. different implementations of course do, but that depends on the scenario. |
| 02:26.37 | Mundy- | it has the drawback of more time invested in design |
| 02:26.47 | Mundy- | hiring more qualified programmers |
| 02:26.55 | Iriel | The only place where "efficiency" can be bad is when it's unnecessary and significantly increases the complexity of a program that then has to be maintained. |
| 02:27.03 | Mundy- | ^^ |
| 02:27.04 | Iriel | Having said that, it's very very rate that "efficient" == "messy" |
| 02:27.08 | Iriel | rare |
| 02:27.23 | Iriel | usually clean and efficient go nicely hand in hand |
| 02:27.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Iriel: it could be argued that in those cases it is, in fact, not efficient. :p |
| 02:27.50 | Mundy- | like i said before, unless you're on a low spec server or have huge usage, a page load of 300ms is just as good as a 100ms page load |
| 02:27.51 | Iriel | NightHawkTheSane: well, yes, but it's a lot harder to measure that sort of efficiency |
| 02:28.13 | Iriel | I work on large scale eCommerce sites, so I care about those ms |
| 02:28.14 | Mundy- | "efficiency" arguements without a foundation are stupid and pointless |
| 02:28.30 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, not at all |
| 02:28.32 | Mundy- | and are just a way for people to sound pseudo-intellectual |
| 02:28.37 | cbreak | no |
| 02:28.49 | NightHawkTheSane | you can certainly talk about the relative efficiency of various implementations and designs. |
| 02:28.58 | Mundy- | well yeah |
| 02:29.14 | Mundy- | but it really doesnt achieve much if you're not applying it to some kind of situation |
| 02:29.14 | NightHawkTheSane | whether the difference between them is relevant to you is another matter entirely. |
| 02:29.27 | NightHawkTheSane | it achieves as much as any conversation achieves. |
| 02:30.22 | Iriel | function mult(a,b) local r = 0 for i = 1, b do r = r + a; end return r; end |
| 02:30.26 | Mundy- | well yeah but thats not what im getting at |
| 02:30.29 | Iriel | is inefficient no matter how you look at it |
| 02:30.42 | Mundy- | exactly |
| 02:31.07 | Mundy- | im not saying we should disregard efficiency |
| 02:31.24 | Mundy- | but vauge arguments like this are stupid o_0 |
| 02:31.40 | Iriel | I do agree that things get tricky when you have to weigh stuff like operational complexity, footprint, environment, and speed to develop new features |
| 02:31.40 | MentalPower | Iriel: and here I thought that's how processors do it :P |
| 02:31.43 | NightHawkTheSane | so don't participate? :p |
| 02:32.07 | Mundy- | touche |
| 02:32.14 | MentalPower | its nice that you made that r local tho :) |
| 02:32.35 | cbreak | you can do it more efficient |
| 02:33.08 | cbreak | by using the fact that for even a you can do b+b and half a. |
| 02:33.35 | Aiiane | in general; efficiency matters, but server efficiency matters much more than client efficiency once you reach a certain threshold of client efficiency |
| 02:33.54 | Iriel | cbreak: now that's how processors do it |
| 02:34.09 | cbreak | I still would prefer if firefox would use less memory ... :) |
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| 02:35.10 | Aiiane | i would prefer if firefox would actually let me tweak its memory limits more effectively, and properly clean up excess when it hits those limits :P |
| 02:35.39 | cbreak | memory limits? I am quite happy with that being a thing of the past... :) |
| 02:36.09 | cbreak | not that mac os 9 sucked... but... it was rather primitive :/ |
| 02:36.50 | Aiiane | cbreak, I mean in terms of how much it caches |
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| 02:37.35 | Aiiane | when I'm typically on a fast connection, I don't mind it not caching all that much, so its only hanging to the truly frequently-used stuff |
| 02:38.53 | Aiiane | unless you actually think firefox can find a way to use upwards of 200mb from just regular operating needs? :P |
| 02:39.53 | cbreak | maybe it buffers the server replies, then it buffers it's internal representation after parsing, then it buffers the layout it makes from that, ... |
| 02:40.15 | cbreak | and the resulting image too. although that should be the job of the gui layer of the os |
| 02:40.24 | cbreak | maybe it doesn't buffer it. hmm :/ |
| 02:42.17 | Aiiane | well, to put things in perspective |
| 02:42.39 | Aiiane | not sure if it survived into ff3, but there were some options you could set in ff2 to have it free its memory when minimized |
| 02:43.08 | Aiiane | if you turned that on, and then minimized it, its memory usage would drop from the hundreds, down to about 8mb, almost instantly upon minimization |
| 02:43.26 | Aiiane | and then when you restored the window and started browsing again, it would rapidly climb back up |
| 02:43.49 | cbreak | it probably stopped execution of java scripts of minimized windos too |
| 02:48.37 | NightHawkTheSane | hmm, america's most literate cities.. http://www.ccsu.edu/amlc08/overall_10.htm |
| 02:49.57 | Aiiane | http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm |
| 02:51.52 | Gngsk | Aiiane, looks like config.trim_on_minimize still works on ff3, just doesn't exist so you have to create it |
| 02:52.13 | Aiiane | didnt exist by default in ff2 either |
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| 02:52.52 | Gngsk | ah, well, maybe it doesn't work then cause it doesn't go down to 8m like you said |
| 02:53.09 | Gngsk | oh, yeah it does |
| 02:53.36 | Gngsk | but then it soars back up before you restore |
| 02:54.09 | Gngsk | decent alternative to closing tabs and restarting the browser though I guess |
| 02:55.03 | cbreak | hmm... what I read indicates that this is a windows only option |
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| 03:15.31 | Corr-work | i don't remember the password to my proxy off hand, so despite not needing it active right now, i dare not set my irc client not to use it, lest i end up unable to remember the password :( |
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| 03:16.53 | Aiiane | heh |
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| 04:07.11 | Shirik | merry christmas everyone |
| 04:07.16 | Shirik | or whatevert |
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| 04:13.42 | Adys | merry christmas to europeans |
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| 04:24.32 | Shirik | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.0.x ToC: 30000 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Help sick kids! http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19741 | Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone! |
| 04:24.33 | Shirik | er |
| 04:24.36 | Shirik | I win |
| 04:24.43 | *** topic/#WoWUIDev by Shirik -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.0.x ToC: 30000 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Help sick kids! http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19741 | Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone! |
| 04:26.35 | Thunder_Child | ~sigh Shirik |
| 04:26.36 | purl | ACTION sighs, rolls its eyes and shakes its head, "Shirik!" |
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| 04:48.37 | Corr-work2 | what the hell name do i have, i wonder |
| 04:48.43 | Corr-work2 | that's clever |
| 04:48.57 | Shirik | (23:42:58)  -› Join: Corr-work2 (n=Corr-wor@adsl-75-17-199-112.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net) (clones with: Corrodias, Corr-work (2)) |
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| 04:49.17 | Corr-work2 | i'm quietly multiplying, to take over the world |
| 04:49.30 | Aiiane | actually, so far you appear to be adding |
| 04:49.32 | Corr-work2 | this ad-hoc wireless network takes a dump once in a while |
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| 05:28.57 | Thunder_Child | mr. anderson you are not Corr-work2 |
| 05:30.57 | NightHawkTheSane | hulu streaming to my television via boxee ispretty sweet |
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| 07:10.07 | Thunder_Child | ~staple Corr-work |
| 07:10.08 | purl | ACTION attaches a staple gun to a pneumatic nail gun via duct tape, staples Corr-work quite well, and hands Corr-work to thunder_child |
| 07:10.14 | Adys | channel is rarely this quiet |
| 07:10.27 | Adys | and while Im writing this Thunder_Child HAS to be the only one talking in 3 hours |
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| 07:10.55 | Thunder_Child | i do have a a flair for timing Adys |
| 07:11.02 | Thunder_Child | usually bad |
| 07:11.06 | iewnait | any one know where i can find the code for the function WhoFrameColumn_SetWidth() ? |
| 07:12.27 | Adys | iewnait: /script WhoFrameColumn_SetWidth("abcd") says "Interface/FrameXML/FriendsFrame.lua:792" |
| 07:12.53 | Adys | but its prolly just a bad call to another file |
| 07:13.13 | haste | FriendsFrame.lua sonuds correct |
| 07:13.24 | Adys | maybe, maybenot |
| 07:13.48 | Adys | so why exactly do scrollframes in xml work out of the box, but not in lua? :( |
| 07:13.50 | haste | it's the frame with the who tab, so.. :P |
| 07:14.02 | haste | because you inherit in XML and not in lua? |
| 07:14.09 | Adys | nop |
| 07:14.32 | Adys | shit |
| 07:14.32 | Adys | yes |
| 07:14.40 | Adys | damnit, thought i doublechecked :( |
| 07:14.40 | haste | :3 |
| 07:14.45 | haste | gn! :p |
| 07:14.52 | Adys | hey I woke up early |
| 07:15.08 | haste | and I went to bed late, being 8AM here :p |
| 07:15.14 | haste | *poff* |
| 07:15.27 | Fisker- | YOU! |
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| 07:15.30 | Adys | hehe |
| 07:15.56 | Adys | also should i :SetScrollChild() after or before the child has a width/height/point/whatever or it doesnt matter? |
| 07:18.49 | iewnait | hmzi cant locate teh file |
| 07:18.57 | iewnait | i cant locate the file* |
| 07:19.08 | iewnait | friendsframe.lua |
| 07:19.20 | Gngsk | ~framexml |
| 07:19.20 | purl | Get the official Blizzard Interface AddOn Kit here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ui/ or view it online at http://wowcompares.com/ |
| 07:20.44 | iewnait | hmz |
| 07:20.48 | Gngsk | http://wowcompares.com/3039183/FrameXML/FriendsFrame.lua |
| 07:20.50 | iewnait | i can only fine |
| 07:20.55 | iewnait | friendsframe.xml |
| 07:21.00 | iewnait | oh great ty |
| 07:32.11 | Mike-N-Go | Is there a call to select all in the edit box of an EasyMenu()? |
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| 08:09.19 | Tewan | What kind of TGA is used for WoW? |
| 08:09.34 | Tewan | 16/24/32 bit? |
| 08:10.13 | Shirik | Tewan: 8x4 RGBA |
| 08:10.24 | Shirik | thus 24-bit or 32-bit depending on your definition of bit depth |
| 08:10.28 | Tewan | k |
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| 08:12.07 | Wobin | woah |
| 08:12.09 | Wobin | bsod |
| 08:12.14 | Wobin | I haven't had one of those in quite a long time |
| 08:12.33 | Tewan | Haven't had one for about.... 3 months now. |
| 08:12.44 | Tewan | Though I need to reformat soon. |
| 08:13.09 | Wobin | hm, that's a bit bizzare |
| 08:13.56 | Wobin | http://www.flickr.com/photos/30938059@N08/3135135754/ |
| 08:14.05 | Wobin | my sword, helm and shoulders are solid =P |
| 08:14.29 | Tewan | Hmm... |
| 08:14.55 | Tewan | 2px is a bit big. |
| 08:15.04 | Tewan | Relatively... |
| 08:17.47 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.brikwars.com/downloads/epic_1280.jpg |
| 08:20.00 | Pzyk | lego pirates with lazers? |
| 08:20.09 | Pzyk | win all by itself. |
| 08:25.57 | Tekkub | I'm ashamed of lego |
| 08:26.17 | Tekkub | it used to be this great toy for teaching kids how to build things |
| 08:26.35 | Tekkub | nowadays... can you even BUY normal "bricks"? |
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| 08:27.14 | NightHawkTheSane | im pretty sure you can |
| 08:27.15 | Shirik | night all |
| 08:27.53 | Tekkub | "pretty sure" is kinda scary :) |
| 08:28.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Tekkub: i say pretty sure because i haven't looked for not-part-of-a-set bricks in quite some time |
| 08:28.27 | Tekkub | at least lincoln logs never sold out ^^ |
| 08:28.43 | Tekkub | that, right there, is my point exactly |
| 08:28.54 | NightHawkTheSane | i know at one point they were purchasable, and i see no reason why that would stop |
| 08:29.22 | Tekkub | legos aren't about building whatever you can imagine anymore, they're about building what the set makes, and you can usually only put it together one way |
| 08:29.56 | NightHawkTheSane | well, if you're trying to build what the set is designed for, then yes, there's really only one way to get there. :p |
| 08:30.11 | NightHawkTheSane | but your inability to put the instructions aside and just build what you want is your problem |
| 08:30.36 | Tekkub | :P |
| 08:30.42 | Torhal | Tekkub: You should start making addons with Lego blocks. |
| 08:31.08 | Tekkub | I kinda liked Knex |
| 08:31.27 | Tekkub | they appealed to my 3D senses |
| 08:36.46 | Codayus | I like knex a lot. |
| 08:37.13 | Codayus | The parts are a lot more general, and so it's a lot easier to just...make something. |
| 08:39.09 | Tekkub | and you have a lot more freedom than legos, where you have to build something somewhat structurally sound or it crashes in on itself |
| 08:40.28 | Codayus | My brother and I once built a functioing crossbow out of knex. Could fire pencils with surprising force. |
| 08:40.41 | Codayus | Building something dangerous out of legos would be much MUCH harder. |
| 08:40.46 | Codayus | This is why knex > legos. |
| 08:41.13 | Wobin | that damn planal torsion =( |
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| 09:55.13 | Saeris | Anyone experienced with the restricted environment implementation? I'm wondering how it's preventing use of the intrinsic string metatable to access functions outside of the restricted scope. |
| 10:07.33 | Saeris | Nevermind, I see it now, down at line 720-something. |
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| 10:32.56 | Mike-N-Go | JC, mining, LW, Tailoring, and Alc are the only professions with cooldowns, am I right? |
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| 11:13.36 | Wobin | inscription? |
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| 11:13.39 | Wobin | with the research? |
| 11:13.54 | Wobin | I have no idea how that works btw =) |
| 11:17.16 | *** join/#wowuidev sLm (n=sp@pool-141-154-184-201.wma.east.verizon.net) |
| 11:17.21 | sLm | Hi |
| 11:17.59 | sLm | I'm fairly new at this game and I"m trying to get to Teldrassil I'm in Wetlands harbor right now |
| 11:18.07 | sLm | Can anyone give me a little direction? |
| 11:19.03 | Arrowmaster | if you get to stormwind theres a boat to another town which has a boat to teldrassil |
| 11:19.36 | selckin1 | wetlands -> darkshore -> teldrassil (darnassus) |
| 11:20.06 | Arrowmaster | oh yeah the wetlands boat goes to darkshore now |
| 11:20.17 | sLm | Do they? |
| 11:20.18 | Arrowmaster | duh, silly me |
| 11:20.26 | sLm | From what I see there are two choices |
| 11:20.33 | selckin1 | i've never known it to be diffrend :\ |
| 11:20.57 | sLm | One is Theramore the other is North...something |
| 11:20.57 | Arrowmaster | meh i play horde, i rarely use the alliance boats except when i have to |
| 11:21.07 | sLm | Am I missing something? |
| 11:21.19 | sLm | Or did they change the location but didn't fix the text |
| 11:21.19 | selckin1 | oh yeah, they changed the boats for wrath i think |
| 11:21.30 | zenzelezz | there used to only be Menethil on EK, which went to both Darkshore and Theramore |
| 11:21.30 | Arrowmaster | they did change them for wrath |
| 11:21.36 | zenzelezz | now Theramore is from Stormwind |
| 11:21.42 | selckin1 | no |
| 11:21.54 | selckin1 | theramore is still menethil |
| 11:22.00 | selckin1 | fairly sure of that :\ |
| 11:22.09 | zenzelezz | then it's Stormwind that's Darkshore |
| 11:22.17 | sLm | So if I"m trying to get to Teldrassil I take the Theramore boat? |
| 11:22.20 | sLm | Or the other one? |
| 11:22.21 | Arrowmaster | 100% sure stormwind is darkshore |
| 11:22.24 | zenzelezz | at any rate, the dockmasters where the boats stop will tell you where they go |
| 11:22.29 | selckin1 | sLm: take stormwind |
| 11:23.54 | sLm | yeah but I"m already in the wetlands u.u |
| 11:24.06 | sLm | I went from stormwind to wetlands walked all the way |
| 11:24.07 | Arrowmaster | theres 2 boats in wetlands right? |
| 11:24.07 | zenzelezz | sLm: do you have the flight path from Wetlands to Ironforge? |
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| 11:24.17 | zenzelezz | Arrowmaster: yes, one to Outland, one to Kalimdor |
| 11:24.21 | zenzelezz | err, Northrend |
| 11:24.23 | sLm | Yes one is Theramore the other says its for Northrend |
| 11:24.25 | zenzelezz | force of habit |
| 11:24.30 | selckin1 | the real question is why on earth do you want to go to teldrassil |
| 11:24.31 | selckin1 | =) |
| 11:24.49 | sLm | B/c I'm starting out and I want a small map with easy quests |
| 11:24.50 | Arrowmaster | wait what? one is northrend? |
| 11:24.57 | zenzelezz | sLm: if you go to Ironforge, there's a tram to Stormwind |
| 11:24.59 | sLm | Yes one is nortrend the other is theramore |
| 11:25.02 | Arrowmaster | then whats the other one in stormwind? |
| 11:25.08 | selckin1 | also northrend |
| 11:25.11 | sLm | -shrugs- |
| 11:25.12 | zenzelezz | Arrowmaster: yes, Menethil -> Howling Fjord, Stormwind -> Borean Tundra |
| 11:25.24 | selckin1 | sLm: you need stormwind, hearthstone? ;) |
| 11:25.34 | sLm | Sigh |
| 11:25.37 | sLm | So that means |
| 11:25.41 | sLm | I came all the way here for nothing |
| 11:25.43 | sLm | T_T |
| 11:25.48 | Arrowmaster | no not nothing |
| 11:25.51 | selckin1 | traveling blows in wow, get used to it |
| 11:25.55 | Arrowmaster | you got a flight path hopefully |
| 11:25.57 | zenzelezz | sLm: exploration is half the fun :) |
| 11:25.57 | selckin1 | at least you got the flightpaths |
| 11:26.06 | sLm | I guess :/ |
| 11:27.01 | selckin1 | notting more fun then taking a 15min flightpath |
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| 11:27.43 | sLm | I take a bathroom break or something |
| 11:28.03 | zenzelezz | there aren't that many of those though; that's like Winterspring -> Silithus or EPL -> Booty Bay |
| 11:28.32 | sLm | Alright so if I'm trying to get from Stormwind to Teldrassil what are the steps |
| 11:28.40 | selckin1 | dalaran -> basin is stupid long too |
| 11:28.43 | selckin1 | damn wintergrasp. |
| 11:28.55 | Arrowmaster | goto harbor and take the southern boat |
| 11:29.02 | selckin1 | sLm: take boat to darkshore, boat to darnassus |
| 11:29.11 | Arrowmaster | then take the northern boat in darkshore |
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| 11:55.51 | sLm | Whoops sry was away |
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| 11:56.01 | sLm | Anyway Im in stormwind and it looks like theres two boats |
| 11:56.27 | sLm | one heading to northrend and the other to auberdine |
| 11:56.38 | sLm | is there another one im not noticing? |
| 11:56.49 | foxlit | no |
| 11:57.04 | sLm | Which one leads to darkshore |
| 11:57.11 | sLm | im trying to get to teldrassil |
| 11:57.20 | foxlit | auberdine |
| 11:57.53 | sLm | alright and after im there; will there be another boat that will take me to darnassus? |
| 11:58.16 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 11:58.24 | sLm | alright. |
| 11:58.29 | zenzelezz | it should be directly opposite where your boat from Stormwind stops |
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| 11:58.56 | sLm | Okay, ty |
| 11:59.08 | sLm | 2nd day playing so I'm still a little new at this ;P |
| 11:59.48 | sLm | Ooh, quick question though. Stormwind is being attacked by Hordes right now, what exactly happens to Hordes that get killed in Stormwind? |
| 12:00.01 | sLm | Just something I was wondering today |
| 12:00.01 | Zyndrome | long ass corpserun |
| 12:00.22 | sLm | They have to go back on alliance territory? |
| 12:00.29 | Zyndrome | uh yeah |
| 12:00.33 | foxlit | They could use a spirit healer. |
| 12:00.48 | foxlit | I'm not sure where the nearest horde-friendly GY is |
| 12:01.01 | foxlit | If Elewynn is symmetric to Durotar, it shouldn't be too far away. |
| 12:11.48 | Codayus | It's like...out at the lumber camp or something. Quite a run, really. |
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| 12:34.15 | Arrowmaster | its actually perty far away compared to durotar |
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| 13:04.31 | foxlit | Hm, ouch. Grand Magus killed me :( |
| 13:04.38 | foxlit | (Telestra, that is) |
| 13:06.26 | foxlit | Wonder which one of the clones actually deals damage. |
| 13:12.55 | foxlit | It was fire; the hat is mine. |
| 13:13.13 | foxlit | (and bleh, only one split at normal -- could've used army of the dead to trivialize this) |
| 13:19.32 | Fisker- | or you could've gotten the hat weeks ago |
| 13:19.32 | Fisker- | :3 |
| 13:35.02 | cbreak | an other patch day without Torment the Weak changes :( |
| 13:35.35 | cbreak | (well, potential patch day) |
| 13:35.51 | foxlit | Gnome Commonder says: The Burning Legion has returned! What can we do to stop them? |
| 13:35.59 | foxlit | s/nd/n/ |
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| 14:19.02 | Adys | cbreak: what kind of change? |
| 14:19.39 | cbreak | every kind of slow will count |
| 14:20.30 | cbreak | thunder clap too, for example |
| 14:20.51 | Industrial | dk's need to die |
| 14:20.55 | Industrial | .. again. |
| 14:21.02 | cbreak | they do a lot. |
| 14:21.30 | Industrial | not when they pvp me it seems. (enhancement shaman) |
| 14:21.56 | cbreak | I killed one in Wintergrasp once |
| 14:22.03 | Industrial | was he afk? |
| 14:22.07 | cbreak | no |
| 14:22.11 | Industrial | :E |
| 14:22.19 | cbreak | he attacked me while killing an elemental |
| 14:23.47 | Industrial | talking about elemental, I should really just roll a mage or somethnig instead of trying to go elemental in PVP :< I hear they are very easy targets again at 80 (were at 70) |
| 14:23.51 | cbreak | I think I was lucky though |
| 14:24.00 | Industrial | thunderstorm seems like fun tho... av bridge.. eots... ab mill.. |
| 14:24.24 | cbreak | not all specs are good for everything |
| 14:25.11 | cbreak | I don't think a fire mage would do too well |
| 14:25.23 | foxlit | How dare you insult my 0/0/0 tanking spec, cbreak! |
| 14:25.30 | Industrial | hehe |
| 14:51.07 | Fisker- | Industrial my friend |
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| 15:01.41 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb50GMmY5nk |
| 15:01.46 | Wobin | It's well composited =) |
| 15:01.54 | Wobin | Match the original movies |
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| 15:38.19 | Amarande | Happy Winter Veil |
| 15:40.10 | Amarande | grrrr |
| 15:40.15 | Amarande | stupid thrashin racer ate my felguard |
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| 16:12.58 | mikma | you know |
| 16:13.17 | mikma | wowui updater should allow me to update addons from somewhere else than wow\interface\addons |
| 16:13.42 | kd3 | geez at the tree in IF |
| 16:13.47 | kd3 | and all of the achievement spam |
| 16:14.21 | Shirik | mikma: I'm working on that right now actually (not that feature, but the program) |
| 16:14.31 | Shirik | I'm curious to hear why you need that |
| 16:15.07 | Shirik | I should actually connect via irssi since I'm on the road right now :/ |
| 16:15.27 | mikma | shirik: i update almost *all* of my addons in linux with svn/git, and there's some addons that i only install when i need them. those addons are stored in windows xp and they are from wowi |
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| 16:17.29 | mikma | wow... |
| 16:17.35 | Fisker- | aww kd3 :( |
| 16:17.36 | mikma | irssi just completely hanged |
| 16:17.37 | Shirik|Ecole | That's why I connected to screen! |
| 16:17.39 | mikma | that's a new one for me |
| 16:17.40 | Shirik|Ecole | hehe :) |
| 16:17.42 | Shirik|Ecole | oh |
| 16:17.45 | Shirik|Ecole | :( |
| 16:17.45 | Fisker- | somebody isn't in a christmas mood |
| 16:17.52 | mikma | shirik|ecole: screen works just fine, irssi just hanged :D |
| 16:17.52 | Shirik|Ecole | I just saw "lost terminal" :P |
| 16:18.13 | mikma | shirik|ecole: anyway, there's my reasons why :) |
| 16:18.23 | Shirik|Ecole | makes sense |
| 16:18.40 | Shirik|Ecole | In any case, the 2.0 updater is modular |
| 16:18.51 | Shirik|Ecole | so even if it doesn't handle something you want, could always write a module to handle it |
| 16:18.59 | Shirik|Ecole | though I'll see what I can do about that |
| 16:19.43 | Fisker- | Any of you guys know if you can get the group policy that disables the desktop but without disabling right-clicking? |
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| 17:14.49 | Amarande | hmm |
| 17:14.55 | Amarande | did regular mobs' enrage get nerfed, or is htis just a northrend thing? |
| 17:19.09 | zenzelezz | nerfed how? |
| 17:20.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Amarande: low HP |
| 17:21.05 | ScytheBlade1 | And not all mobs have always had that |
| 17:21.18 | ScytheBlade1 | ie, humanoids either enrage or flee |
| 17:22.11 | zenzelezz | is there any way to determine the spell ID of a buff on a unit? |
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| 17:26.44 | Amarande | zenzelezz: I used to remember mobs got a fixed +damage bonus based on level when they enrage |
| 17:26.53 | Amarande | ones in NR seem to get a +% damage bonus (probably based on level) |
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| 17:40.18 | Shirik | Is there some kind of standard for XML on what should be attributes and what should be data? |
| 17:40.21 | Shirik | Like |
| 17:40.39 | Shirik | <AutoUpdate value="true" /> vs <AutoUpdate>true</AutoUpdate> |
| 17:40.57 | Shirik | even if it's just a pseudo-"this is how it's done"-standard |
| 17:44.42 | Fisker- | W3C got one |
| 17:44.47 | Fisker- | i believe |
| 17:45.01 | Shirik | Isnt' that just regarding the well-formedness of an XML file though? |
| 17:45.17 | Shirik | As far as I'm aware, both of these are well-formed, just one is "the way it should be done" |
| 17:45.42 | Amarande | hm, armory still seems a little inaccurate |
| 17:45.50 | Amarande | Food eaten most: "Honey-Spiced Liichen [sic]" |
| 17:46.00 | Shirik | heh |
| 17:46.02 | Fisker- | as i recall they have examples where you should use attributes rather than date |
| 17:46.08 | Fisker- | which makes it "well-formed" |
| 17:46.58 | Amarande | they still haven't fixed the guild achievement points either |
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| 17:48.49 | Amarande | what I've always wondered is |
| 17:48.58 | Amarande | why does armory clearly appear to use multiple database entries for the SAME INFO? |
| 17:49.18 | Amarande | for instance: it obviously saves achievement points for "character X" separately from "character X in guild Y" |
| 17:49.31 | Cide | hi |
| 17:49.38 | Amarande | because I've come across a fair number of toons for which the achievement points listed on the character screen are different from the ones listed on their guild roster |
| 17:51.45 | Amarande | I mean, why wouldn't it just, when you go to the guild roster, pull all the applicable information from the character DB rather than having a separate DB for that? |
| 17:59.37 | Shirik | Amarande: It probably has something to do with efficiency |
| 17:59.49 | Shirik | I'm sure the WoW servers don't need any more stress than they have already |
| 17:59.58 | Shirik | I already can't comprehend how they work that well |
| 18:00.59 | Amarande | Shirik: they sacrifice gnomes regularly |
| 18:01.43 | Amarande | the odd thing is that when I *gain* achievement points, my guild roster achievement points go up accordingly, but it never quite fixes things back to the right amount |
| 18:02.26 | Cide | it makes a lot of sense to store achievement points separately for character and guild roster |
| 18:02.36 | Cide | otherwise you'd have to do an extra table join |
| 18:03.09 | Amarande | also: is there a "DS4" in WotLK, or are there no pre-raid sets anymore? |
| 18:03.16 | Amarande | outside of the crafting and PvP ones, that is |
| 18:03.23 | Cide | such redundancy is pretty common in database schemes for high-traffic sites |
| 18:03.48 | Cide | well designed database schemes anyway |
| 18:04.08 | Amarande | from what I've seen of instance loot at least so far, it seems like pre-heroic/raid, we're actually discouraged from trying to obtain instance loot |
| 18:04.31 | Amarande | even if you get something that's an upgrade, it's inferior to what you get from that same instance's quests |
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| 18:11.51 | Tem | *crickets* |
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| 18:38.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Trying to install vista and it keeps breaking due to the DVD-RW I'm using... and I keep having this urge to hit ctrl+alt+F1 to check diagnostics =[ |
| 18:41.32 | Fisker- | install from harddrive :3 |
| 18:44.45 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd have to get it on the HD first |
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| 18:47.42 | mikma | tekkub: merry xmas |
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| 19:40.57 | Fisker- | don't get him started mikma :3 |
| 19:43.04 | Shirik | assert tekkup.equalToIgnoreCase("Scrooge"); |
| 19:43.09 | Shirik | s/p/b/ |
| 19:43.55 | Cide | what kind of string method is that? |
| 19:44.56 | Shirik | sorry |
| 19:44.58 | Shirik | equalsIgnoreCase() |
| 19:45.09 | Cide | still |
| 19:45.11 | Cide | that's just bad |
| 19:45.11 | Shirik | I just do equal and let it finish it :P |
| 19:45.38 | Shirik | http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/docs/api/java/lang/String.html#equalsIgnoreCase(java.lang.String) |
| 19:46.54 | PProvost | Anyone have any thoughts why these edit boxes are getting texture clipped? http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/438/configframeeditboxproblkr3.png |
| 19:49.32 | Iriel | an errant texture with a poor draw layer? |
| 19:50.56 | ckknight | hey, it's Iriel, just who I wanted to see |
| 19:51.04 | PProvost | They are simply frames made with InputBoxTemplate. I suppose it could be something else. I'll try commenting out the other code and seeing if they go away |
| 19:51.04 | ckknight | firstly, Happy Festivus |
| 19:51.13 | ckknight | secondly, do you have your guide on restricted execution? |
| 19:52.58 | nevcairiel | the 3.0 thread has link to it |
| 19:53.02 | nevcairiel | +a |
| 19:53.21 | mikma | Hey anyone knows what does the Shift+Click do in the Currencies-tab? |
| 19:53.27 | ckknight | could you link me to that, nevcairiel? |
| 19:53.29 | Iriel | ckknight: the new templates? |
| 19:53.39 | mikma | it adds checkmark after the currency, but i dunno what's the meaning of it :D |
| 19:53.39 | Iriel | http://www.iriel.org/wow/docs/SecureHeadersGuide%20-%20pre1.pdf |
| 19:53.40 | ckknight | Iriel: well, I saw your draft PDF |
| 19:53.45 | nevcairiel | while i'm at that, pre1 still the latest? |
| 19:53.55 | Iriel | yes it's still the latest |
| 19:54.21 | nevcairiel | I spotted some error in there the other day |
| 19:54.24 | Iriel | I'm going to try and coordinate an update in time with the next patch, but we'll have to see how the US economy does 8-) |
| 19:54.31 | Iriel | Please email it to me if you remember it |
| 19:55.45 | nevcairiel | I think you have in there control:RunMethod but its actually :CallMethod |
| 19:55.45 | nevcairiel | or something |
| 19:55.45 | nevcairiel | nothing i couldnt figure out from the code =P |
| 19:56.22 | mikma | oh cool |
| 19:56.23 | ckknight | much love, Iriel |
| 19:56.28 | mikma | you can track the currencies in backpack! |
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| 20:08.54 | Shirik | gah |
| 20:08.54 | Shirik | irssi you fail at netsplits! |
| 20:08.55 | amro | indeed it doe |
| 20:08.55 | amro | s/doe/does/ |
| 20:08.55 | amro | and so do I |
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| 20:15.38 | foxlit | bouncy bouncy? |
| 20:16.09 | Thunder_Child | notice from tomaw: [Global Notice] Hi all, one of our hubs just disappeared taking services with it. We're looking in to the cause now. |
| 20:16.10 | nevcairiel | dead hubs is fun |
| 20:16.25 | nevcairiel | at least it rehubbed fast |
| 20:17.25 | Fisker- | lol they should change to switches |
| 20:17.46 | nevcairiel | so we can all only talk to one other end? |
| 20:17.51 | nevcairiel | how is that useful? =P |
| 20:18.28 | Fisker- | it isn't :D |
| 20:18.55 | nevcairiel | Like you, eh? |
| 20:19.03 | Fisker- | :( |
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| 20:40.04 | |Jelly| | Anyone have a good DK dual wield spec? |
| 20:42.07 | mikma | pick any tree you want just as long as you get the dw talent from frost spec. |
| 20:42.44 | |Jelly| | Nerves of Cold Steel? |
| 20:42.54 | mikma | ya |
| 20:43.37 | mikma | pretty much X/8/X is needed for any good dw build (i have *NEVER* tested dw with dk) |
| 20:43.52 | nevcairiel | good and DW Build in one sentence? |
| 20:46.34 | Fisker- | paladins need dual wield 2handers |
| 20:46.48 | |Jelly| | Couldn't agree more |
| 20:48.27 | Fisker- | Seeing fights like Thaddius and Loatheb warriors scale insanely well on those fights :o |
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| 20:49.45 | nevcairiel | Doesnt thaddius just increase all your dmg by x%? |
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| 20:49.51 | nevcairiel | shouldnt everyone scale the same? =P |
| 20:50.29 | Fisker- | warriors generate more rage the more damage they make |
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| 21:23.19 | foxlit | Fisker-: everyone needs to be able to dual-wield three handers. Hah! |
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| 22:06.06 | nevcairiel | Iriel: still around? |
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| 22:08.49 | mikma | lol nobin |
| 22:08.59 | nobin | lol? |
| 22:09.10 | Fisker- | it's like wobin |
| 22:09.34 | Fisker- | except he doesn't think i'm a jackass |
| 22:09.35 | Fisker- | ...yet |
| 22:10.43 | sacarasc | just give it a few more likes, Fisker-, and he will know like the rest of us |
| 22:12.36 | zenzelezz | <Fisker-> warriors generate more rage the more damage they make <--- and take; so it's a double win on Thaddius |
| 22:13.10 | nevcairiel | you take more dmg on thaddius? |
| 22:13.18 | nevcairiel | if you fuck up, you do |
| 22:13.19 | nevcairiel | ;) |
| 22:13.19 | zenzelezz | not "more", but you take some |
| 22:13.25 | zenzelezz | he has his chain lightning |
| 22:13.32 | Iriel | nevcairiel: mostly |
| 22:14.20 | zenzelezz | that's an interesting idea though nevcairiel |
| 22:14.22 | Fisker- | what do you mean zenzelezz? :3 |
| 22:14.30 | zenzelezz | "All right, who moved?" "It was me, I needed rage" |
| 22:14.34 | nevcairiel | Iriel: is it intended that control:RunFor(frameRef, ...) runs the snippet with the callers environment rather then with the environment of frameRef? Or shall i include that in the mail ? ;) |
| 22:14.41 | Fisker- | also paladins take ridiculous amounts of damage on thaddius :D |
| 22:14.45 | mikma | yeah i think it's evil wobin |
| 22:14.54 | Iriel | nevcairiel: it is |
| 22:14.56 | Fisker- | around 50% hp on a crit Judgement of Blood |
| 22:15.24 | Iriel | I intended it as a way of having a 'parent' update its children |
| 22:15.49 | nevcairiel | can i somehow modify another frames environment from another frame where i only have a labeld frameref, but no parent association or anything? |
| 22:16.13 | nevcairiel | all in secure snippets, of course |
| 22:16.41 | Iriel | Via SetAttribute you can |
| 22:16.58 | nevcairiel | i cannot pass tables through SetAttribute |
| 22:17.11 | nevcairiel | Or can i pass secure tables |
| 22:18.18 | Iriel | I dont think you can |
| 22:18.47 | nevcairiel | no i cant :( |
| 22:19.00 | nobin | I've been working on a boot loader and I'm working on getting it to work on usb and pull the stage 2 and kernel out of a ext2 filesystem |
| 22:19.09 | Iriel | We didn't want to couple separate environments too tightly |
| 22:19.23 | nevcairiel | mmm |
| 22:19.38 | Iriel | is there a reason you can't use a single secure environment amongst lots of frames? |
| 22:20.24 | nevcairiel | Well i have this one table with some data about spells that i need to generate insecurely, then pass in through alot of :Execute calls into a secure table |
| 22:20.29 | nevcairiel | which is shared for all frames |
| 22:20.40 | nevcairiel | but they have information that is not shared |
| 22:20.46 | nevcairiel | i guess i could move those into attributes |
| 22:20.47 | nevcairiel | mm |
| 22:21.43 | Iriel | or a secure table keyed by frame |
| 22:21.56 | nevcairiel | But can i control which environment a frame gets? |
| 22:22.16 | nevcairiel | I always assumed they all have their own anyway |
| 22:23.03 | Iriel | It depends how you're setting them up |
| 22:23.44 | Iriel | if you can use the wrap mechanism then you have total control |
| 22:23.53 | nevcairiel | I just create a frame and inherit SecureHandlerAttributeTemplate |
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| 22:24.44 | Iriel | ah, then they each have their own right now |
| 22:30.50 | nevcairiel | I wouldnt have any issues changing the frame creation, but after reading the code, only place i see that generates the environment .. needs secure code |
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| 22:33.13 | Iriel | I'm not sure quite what you mean |
| 22:34.03 | nevcairiel | I mean that i have no idea what to change to achieve what you describe =P |
| 22:34.59 | Iriel | well, after creation, what do these frames _do_ ? |
| 22:35.35 | nevcairiel | appear on screen, wait for the user to click them |
| 22:37.05 | nevcairiel | well i guess i could run all the frames on their parents environment if i restructure alot of stuff |
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| 22:37.43 | mikma | oh ffs, nothing's more irritating than waiting for some event to happen so you can see does your addon work or not |
| 22:37.57 | Iriel | or else deal with having multiple copies of the lookup table |
| 22:38.09 | Iriel | while it's a bit annoying from a purist perspective, it shouldn't impede functionality |
| 22:38.15 | Iriel | unless the table is ridiculously large |
| 22:38.36 | nevcairiel | not that big, one entry for every spell the player know |
| 22:38.38 | nevcairiel | +s |
| 22:38.58 | nevcairiel | _childupdate runs against the headers env as well i assume |
| 22:39.04 | nevcairiel | guess i could restructure.. |
| 22:40.35 | Iriel | is this lookup table consulted during OnClick only? or frequently? |
| 22:41.06 | nevcairiel | on state changes from a StateDriver |
| 22:41.37 | Iriel | well, one thing you can do is use SetAttribute as a sort of RPC mechanis, |
| 22:42.16 | Iriel | Have one secure frame with the lookup table that looks for OnAttributeChanged events of key attributes to look up the result and send them back to the caller via SetAttribute |
| 22:42.29 | Iriel | probably a bit too kludgey for general use 8-) |
| 22:43.14 | nevcairiel | you could just give me IsHarmfulSpell/IsHelpfulSpell in the secure env .......... :D |
| 22:45.45 | nevcairiel | Anyway i guess i'll restructure it to always run on the parents env in _childupdate and RunFor's |
| 22:46.02 | Iriel | nevcairiel: request it in the cog thread 8-) |
| 22:46.13 | nevcairiel | i cannot :( |
| 22:46.20 | nevcairiel | stupid US forums wont let me |
| 22:46.31 | Iriel | nevcairiel: oh, email me then |
| 22:46.37 | Iriel | nevcairiel: then I may remember 8-) |
| 22:47.11 | Iriel | I can't imagine our benevolent blizzard overlords having a problem with it |
| 22:47.27 | Iriel | (of course, it wont help you any time soon) |
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| 22:47.50 | nevcairiel | I wouldnt expect that, but if i can nuke that code sometime, its still good |
| 22:54.49 | Iriel | time to check on the turkey... |
| 22:55.04 | nevcairiel | Anyway, thanks for your time |
| 22:55.09 | Fisker- | we need a "y so srs?" emote |
| 22:55.22 | nevcairiel | and bon appetit for your turkey :) |
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| 23:14.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Heathens! |
| 23:14.29 | ScytheBlade1 | My relatives lack wireless! |
| 23:15.13 | Industrial | :p |
| 23:15.24 | Industrial | Fisker-: yes, yes we do. |
| 23:16.07 | Industrial | take that! |
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| 23:46.34 | |Jelly| | Blood Aura: Good or Bad? |
| 23:54.43 | Dezzimal | you should take it for raiding |
| 23:55.49 | NightHawkTheSane | currently it's extremely lackluster, probably a waste of points. |
| 23:56.27 | NightHawkTheSane | its being buffed in 3.0.8, might make it worth it. Some back-of-the-envelop math i did suggests it'll be about as good for raid healing as imp lotp. |
