| 00:00.17 | cbreak | we have additional rules like "one item per raid" and "if the gm says you pass, you pass". |
| 00:00.39 | Pneumatus | dictatorship lootcouncil then |
| 00:01.06 | cbreak | it's to prevent people to do stupid decisions. |
| 00:01.29 | cbreak | very rarely needed. |
| 00:02.14 | Amarande | loot council is probably usually the best idea on the whole, though |
| 00:02.32 | Amarande | eliminates tedious bookkeeping and makes sure that whoever needs the gear the most gets the gear without butt-ins from people 'with points' |
| 00:02.53 | Pneumatus | loot council generally fails when people gear alternatively to what the loot council consider best |
| 00:02.55 | Amarande | of course you can end up with ninjas or cronyism in the loot council |
| 00:03.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Pneumatus: huh? |
| 00:03.18 | Amarande | but that just proves an axiom about governing in general |
| 00:03.26 | Amarande | "no system that actually involves human input is ever perfect" |
| 00:03.57 | foxlit | You're going to fail to convince 30 people that comprise your raid force that you're always acting objectively |
| 00:04.06 | Amarande | there's only one type of entity that would ever make the perfect government for anything. it is not currently, and perhaps never possible to create this entity. |
| 00:04.18 | Pneumatus | loot council also suffers from favoratism |
| 00:04.25 | Pneumatus | i wish i could spell |
| 00:04.26 | foxlit | Failing that leads to drama, drama leads to pain, pain leads to gquits, gquits lead to end of progress. |
| 00:04.42 | Amarande | that would be an absolutely incorruptible robot |
| 00:04.48 | ScytheBlade1 | As someone running a loot council |
| 00:04.51 | Amarande | however, you can't get that either, since robots are always subject to how they're programmed :) |
| 00:05.06 | NightHawkTheSane | Pneumatus: you should explain what nonsense you mean by "fail when people gear alternatively to the loot council" because that makes no sense. |
| 00:05.07 | Lunessa | Amarande: I believe a remake of a movie along those lines comes out next week... |
| 00:05.12 | foxlit | Amarande: "no system that actually involves human input is ever perfect" << don't accept that, problem solved. |
| 00:05.28 | Pneumatus | NightHawkTheSane: loot council often has a group of people that decide which items are best for which classes/specs |
| 00:05.34 | ScytheBlade1 | It absolutely revolves entirely around favortism... you're not going to give the last piece of tier gear to a tank that's about to leave (who could otherwise get it with DKP) and apps will get minimal gear period |
| 00:05.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Pneumatus: that's an idiotic loot council. |
| 00:05.48 | Lunessa | http://groundingtotem.com/forums/thread/11#13 - this is my rough draft. |
| 00:05.52 | Amarande | foxlit: such a system always involves human judgment |
| 00:05.59 | Amarande | and there has never been a case of a human with perfect judgment in all case |
| 00:06.19 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm designing/running my LC around the goal of "best for the guild/raid" which means we're gearing up better performing tanks and healers before we're gearing up DPS |
| 00:06.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Is it fair? No, fair wasn't the goal |
| 00:06.44 | ScytheBlade1 | The goal was to get somewhere |
| 00:06.52 | Pneumatus | ScytheBlade1: that fails on dps race bosses, so you'll cockblock |
| 00:07.03 | Lunessa | Yes. My goals are a bit different. :) |
| 00:07.04 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: meh, no loot system is "fair", because "fair" is subjective. |
| 00:07.24 | Amarande | yeah, that's one of the positive points of enrage timers actually :) |
| 00:07.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Pneumatus: except for the part where we have everything cleared already |
| 00:07.40 | Amarande | they give DPS their due when it comes to having actual need for upgrades and thus getting them in a LC type setting |
| 00:07.50 | ScytheBlade1 | We have *really* competent DPS |
| 00:07.51 | Pneumatus | in which case, any loot system is basically pointless as your getting 60+ drops a week |
| 00:08.05 | Amarande | without enrage timers, DPS would always have to wait for tanks and healers, because basically every raid boss would be beatable with good enough T&H |
| 00:08.10 | ScytheBlade1 | NightHawkTheSane: indeed, and people whine and moan too much about what is and isn't fair |
| 00:08.43 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: 9 times out of 10, people who whine about what isn't fair really mean "doesn't work out best for me personally" |
| 00:08.45 | ScytheBlade1 | When in reality, those who do the whining are the ones who don't deserve the loot |
| 00:08.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup, exactly |
| 00:08.55 | Pneumatus | in our 2nd full week of raiding, we're DEing about 40% of drops already as they literally arent upgrades |
| 00:08.58 | Amarande | in fact, enrage timers might be even more important to establish a genuine need for caster DPS in particular to get gear upgrades |
| 00:09.00 | NightHawkTheSane | and hell, i've been guilty of that too, but *shrug* |
| 00:09.09 | Amarande | now that spell power means there's much more overlap than before between healer/caster dps |
| 00:09.28 | Amarande | as I would always trot out as an example before wotlk |
| 00:09.32 | Lunessa | I'm just looking at a simple to administer system that a) encourages people to go, b) evens out random loot distribution, avoids some of the "jerk" problem that loot seems to always cause. |
| 00:09.34 | Amarande | nadina's amulet |
| 00:09.39 | Amarande | before, that was obviously for a holy pally |
| 00:10.04 | Amarande | now (well, "now" assuming 70 was still tops, anyway), it would be something any caster DPS ought to get |
| 00:10.24 | Amarande | *as well* as still being good for a holy pally. |
| 00:10.28 | Pneumatus | that was holy pally/holy priest actually :P |
| 00:10.59 | Pneumatus | even moreso at 3.0 when crit became king for priests |
| 00:11.22 | End | Godammit |
| 00:11.23 | Amarande | Pneu: and spellpower meant that said amulet was <3 for destrolock and mage, too |
| 00:11.35 | Amarande | maybe ele shaman, but IIRC ele shaman already have crit left right and center anyway |
| 00:11.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: some comments: that system seems have a gap in the case where multiple 'bidders' have the same point total, or in the case where someone is the only person who want an item, but does not have sufficiant points to purchase it |
| 00:12.05 | Pneumatus | priests are now struggling to find crit gear that has a reasonable amount of spirt/mp5 on in my experience |
| 00:12.16 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: Spend all. |
| 00:12.35 | Lunessa | But the multiple people with same point total is valid. |
| 00:12.50 | Amarande | Night: spend all, certainly, if you're going to charge the one person who wants it in this case |
| 00:13.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: *nod* its just that your rules sort of make that unclear. you say "you can only purchase something that you have points for" "things with no purchasers get exploded" |
| 00:13.24 | Amarande | though in the case where only one person wants it, I'd just toss it over to them for free, personally |
| 00:13.32 | Lunessa | Yeah. You start with 1 point when you enter the system. |
| 00:13.46 | Amarande | There's absolutely no point to sharding something that is useful to something just because the loot system 'says so', that's just fail |
| 00:13.50 | Amarande | er, useful to someone |
| 00:13.51 | foxlit | "The old hard cap of 40 debuffs on a target no longer effectively exists." Don't tell me, someone stacked forty priests to mind vision some poor sap? |
| 00:13.52 | Pneumatus | how do you accumulate, fixed dkp per boss kill? |
| 00:14.02 | NightHawkTheSane | well, im thinking multiple drops in the same raid, situation, the first drop resets them to zero, the second drop does what? :P |
| 00:14.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: thats obvious, but the rules need to SAY that, else they be misinterpreted. :) |
| 00:14.55 | Pneumatus | if no one has dkp to spend on it, it would be rolled off between people at zero for free id guess |
| 00:15.00 | Amarande | Night: indeed, sadly, the logical decision is frequently the one that pisses people off :) |
| 00:15.22 | Lunessa | Amarande: So, in that case no one wants to give up their priority to get X when on the next boss Y might drop. |
| 00:15.40 | Lunessa | Yet you give them a drop anyway, for free? |
| 00:16.06 | Amarande | Lunessa: what other decision is logical if only one person wants an item, especially if you can clearly tell that they're the only one who has a use for it? |
| 00:16.21 | foxlit | Charge them for it. |
| 00:16.29 | Lunessa | Amarande: Why even bother with a loot system then? |
| 00:16.43 | Amarande | yeah, I guess 'spend all if they don't have enough' is most logical then |
| 00:16.47 | Lunessa | I'm not arguing to be a jack-ass, I'm asking a legit question. |
| 00:16.58 | Amarande | what you want to avoid is the situation where something useful gets sharded because the only people who can use it can't afford it |
| 00:17.12 | Corr-work | logic, reason, fairness |
| 00:17.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 00:17.16 | Lunessa | Any item you get costs all your points. |
| 00:17.31 | Lunessa | Items don't have a cost. |
| 00:17.32 | foxlit | Amarande: you need to fix that without fundamentally breaking other things. Your /random solution fails. |
| 00:17.54 | Amarande | if luck turns out that a raid goes by where several items are only useful to one person, and that person has no points, then there's no really logical choice but to give them all to that person |
| 00:17.54 | Lunessa | er, fixed cost of specific points. |
| 00:17.56 | Amarande | for instance, one raid I was on |
| 00:18.02 | Amarande | I was the only cloth caster DPS in the raid |
| 00:18.06 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: so, my question really is: can a person with 0 points purchase an item, if no one with >0 points wants it? :P |
| 00:18.11 | Corr-work | we used a "roll modifier" point system, although we only used it when there was something that multiple people on a 25m raid wanted |
| 00:18.18 | Amarande | there would have been no logical choice but to give all the cloth caster DPS drops to me |
| 00:18.23 | Corr-work | it was just... not worth bothering with otherwise |
| 00:18.27 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: Which is a good case I hadn't yet considered. |
| 00:18.28 | Amarande | of course, the situation was avoided, since none did, dagnabbit :| |
| 00:18.29 | Wobin | heehee http://www.epauletshop.com/servlet/the-92/Secret-Mark-Throwing-Star/Detail |
| 00:18.45 | Amarande | Night: logically yes |
| 00:18.49 | Amarande | principle: |
| 00:18.55 | Amarande | you can always get another abyss crystal |
| 00:19.06 | Amarande | which is what the raid is going to have, if you don't let the person have it |
| 00:19.11 | End | so |
| 00:19.15 | NightHawkTheSane | Wobin: okay, i think i love you for that link. |
| 00:19.21 | End | I can't do the fighting the wyrm quest today |
| 00:19.35 | End | I can't use any of the abilities |
| 00:19.52 | Wobin | NightHawkTheSane: ^^ |
| 00:20.14 | Lunessa | I would love Wobin, if he'd fix Xparky. |
| 00:20.16 | Amarande | When strictly sticking to the system would result in something dumb, then you throw the system out the window and make the most logical decision. That's the only way I can think of to handle the occasional system failure. |
| 00:20.26 | Wobin | Lunessa: works for me =) |
| 00:20.26 | foxlit | End: something taints vehicle frame, reload. |
| 00:20.32 | End | I did! |
| 00:20.35 | Wobin | granted, it's the wowi version that WFM |
| 00:20.37 | End | I HAVE NO ADDONS ENABLED :( |
| 00:20.42 | End | and |
| 00:20.44 | foxlit | THAT IS PRETTY FAIL :( |
| 00:20.47 | End | the abilities go on cooldown |
| 00:20.51 | End | er, global cooldown |
| 00:21.05 | End | well, the second abilities doesn't, because it isn't on gcd |
| 00:21.09 | End | but the others do! |
| 00:21.34 | End | so yeah, it's baffling |
| 00:21.49 | foxlit | Had a similar problem with a harpoon gun |
| 00:21.55 | foxlit | Reloading seems to have fixed it. |
| 00:22.20 | End | hasn't for me |
| 00:22.36 | End | I'm actually using bartender normally, and I was blaming bartender |
| 00:22.43 | End | but |
| 00:22.48 | End | it fails without any addons at all |
| 00:22.59 | cbreak | maybe the default UI is sucky. |
| 00:23.00 | Lunessa | Amarande: I feel an objection stirring in that people might game the system by saying "I'm the only one who could use it, if I don't say I want it, I can get the item and keep my points." |
| 00:23.12 | foxlit | Oh, it's even worse than that |
| 00:23.30 | foxlit | Me and all the plate-wearing melee dps (that's not a lot of people!) could collectively decide to get loot for free :) |
| 00:23.55 | foxlit | Likewise, rogues and kitty druids are the only people sharing melee-dps leather. |
| 00:24.16 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: thats nothing specific to any one loot system though. :P |
| 00:24.20 | foxlit | all of the spellpower plate goes to paladins -- there are lots of small groups that could be collectively screwing each other :) |
| 00:24.22 | Amarande | well, you have to also consider what a loot-point system is designed to do |
| 00:24.38 | Amarande | it's designed, first and foremost, to resolve disputes when more than one person wants something |
| 00:24.52 | cbreak | no matter who gets an item |
| 00:24.55 | cbreak | the raid improves |
| 00:25.01 | Amarande | when that is not the case, the loot system loses a lot of the importance it had in the first place |
| 00:25.08 | *** join/#wowuidev selckin (n=selckin@unaffiliated/axxo) |
| 00:25.09 | foxlit | cbreak: so random everything off. |
| 00:25.18 | cbreak | yep. |
| 00:25.21 | Amarande | although I also do understand the emotion of "Joe got all kinds of stuff this week and I didn't get anything!" |
| 00:25.33 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: oh, one other thing: point degradation. It's a potential edge case, but what if someone racks up a "healthy" sum of points, takes a break for a few months, comes back and wants a piece from a new boss. :) |
| 00:25.45 | Amarande | I know the feeling well, Elune knows how many instance runs I've been on where the stuff useful to me amounted to the grand total of jack |
| 00:25.59 | cbreak | per-instance dkp? |
| 00:26.10 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: well, not all of them. Fixed-price, forcefully disenchanting unwanted items fix that particular problem. |
| 00:26.20 | Amarande | one thing that's also occurred to me, too |
| 00:26.25 | Amarande | successful run-rewarding DKP |
| 00:26.26 | cbreak | a guild we cooped with had that. a separate database for ssc/tk and bt |
| 00:26.41 | Amarande | basically, by that I mean, every boss is worth more points to people present than the one before |
| 00:26.42 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: yeah, there are some methods to avoid it, but i was just saying it's not a localized phenomenon. :p |
| 00:26.56 | Amarande | which encourages people to push harder and do their best on a run |
| 00:27.13 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: true, true. It's the principle of not getting rid of "unwanted" loot I'm disagreeing with. It should be made "wanted" rather than just handed off :) |
| 00:27.13 | cbreak | you should reward wipe runs |
| 00:27.14 | Amarande | best for progression runs, when something's been on farm for a while you might want to go back to each boss the same |
| 00:27.20 | cbreak | (aka: learning raids) |
| 00:27.34 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: oh, agreed. |
| 00:27.37 | Amarande | cbreak: well, basically the more points for each consecutive boss rewards the raid for going as far as they possibly can every run |
| 00:27.46 | Amarande | so that would fit that, too |
| 00:28.11 | cbreak | so people who join a learning raid get 1 point |
| 00:28.17 | Lunessa | foxlit: I concur. I think the "if i don't ask for it, and spend my points, it gets sharded" is as much stick as I want to apply. |
| 00:28.24 | cbreak | and those who join the farm raid that clears two nax wings get 10? |
| 00:28.45 | Lunessa | And since I'm planning to give 1 point per boss, and you spend all points, well... |
| 00:29.27 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: thats the fundamental flaw with zero-sum style systems, if you ask me :p |
| 00:29.37 | foxlit | The far more interesting issues are how you deal with offspecs and recruits. |
| 00:29.43 | Lunessa | Hrm... Maybe points should be awarded as they're earned, rahter than at the end of the raid. |
| 00:29.50 | cbreak | NightHawkTheSane: exactly. one of the reasons we got rid of them |
| 00:30.03 | Corr-work | how about earning points per boss -attempt-, not per kill |
| 00:30.15 | cbreak | or per-minute? :) |
| 00:30.19 | foxlit | "hey guys, let's wipe and earn some dkp!" |
| 00:30.31 | Corr-work | foxlit: i rather suspect they would be removed from the guild eventually |
| 00:30.33 | foxlit | "What do you mean I'm not supposed to DI the tank?!" |
| 00:30.34 | Lunessa | I give a point per hour and a point for being on time/prepped and a point for being there the whole raid. |
| 00:31.01 | ScytheBlade1 | How big do you want this guild to be? What size content? |
| 00:31.11 | cbreak | and every 10 points you get a free cup of coffe! |
| 00:31.15 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: if you read his original link, the points system ws for 25 man content |
| 00:31.24 | Lunessa | Focus is 10-man content, for now, growing to 25-man content later. |
| 00:31.33 | Lunessa | 10-man = /roll |
| 00:31.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Tracking time that people are there in 25s by the hour isn't exactly easy to do |
| 00:31.58 | Corr-work | we had a ridiculous debate over whether to discard our pre-BC points when we started BC raiding |
| 00:32.14 | Corr-work | i thought it was ridiculous, anyway |
| 00:32.24 | foxlit | What, you didn't disband and reform? |
| 00:32.33 | foxlit | That saves all sort of issues :) |
| 00:32.34 | Lunessa | Maybe I should scrap the whole loot system idea. |
| 00:32.36 | cbreak | we threw the whole system away :) |
| 00:32.56 | Corr-work | indeed, the guild stayed stable from before BC until we beat Leo once or twice |
| 00:33.00 | cbreak | I had about 5k dkp, most of the tanks around -4k |
| 00:33.42 | Amarande | which instance is Leo? |
| 00:33.58 | Corr-work | ssc, in our case the third of five bosses |
| 00:34.07 | foxlit | We ran a fixed-price system, charging people the difference between their most expensive item in-slot and the item they're bidding on |
| 00:35.43 | foxlit | That generally fixes the negative side-effects of having multiple upgrades within a single tier; the one thing that actually needs adjusting is the dkp gain rate / item price between tiers: both to prevent people from accumulating more points than they'd need to make sure they get priority on more than a couple of items. |
| 00:35.58 | Amarande | wtf. |
| 00:36.03 | Amarande | "Bulge-Concealing Breastplate" |
| 00:36.27 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: i like the idea, in theory. i just hate the complexity of fixed-price systems |
| 00:36.52 | Corr-work | i highly recommend having an addon to assist in tracking of these things... or external program |
| 00:36.55 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: item level * slot multiplier, done. |
| 00:37.06 | cbreak | an other problem: if you have a different number of people per-loot in different classes, they gain dkp at different rates |
| 00:37.08 | foxlit | But yeah, there's a lot of arbitrary input there. |
| 00:37.16 | cbreak | and then when a shared item drops, like tier tokens, problems aries |
| 00:37.25 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: a good solution, but still more compelx than "everything costs all your points" |
| 00:37.32 | NightHawkTheSane | or something equally simple |
| 00:37.44 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: indeed; avoiding complexity wasn't ever one of my goals :) |
| 00:37.47 | cbreak | just discuss and tell the master looter who passes... |
| 00:38.11 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: *nod* i prefer to, but thats me. |
| 00:38.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@62.242.38.50) |
| 00:39.06 | Lunessa | I'll collect input from current guildees and see what's what. |
| 00:39.27 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: although now im curious. if a price is ilvl*slot, wouldn't that be a 0 price for minor upgrades to the same slot within the same tier? |
| 00:40.11 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: yes; added "all items cost at least 1 point" fixes that. |
| 00:40.21 | NightHawkTheSane | alright then. :) |
| 00:40.27 | cbreak | are free items problematic? |
| 00:40.45 | cbreak | 1 is quite close to zero too... :) |
| 00:40.47 | Amarande | cbreak: depends on raid member feelings, I'd imagine |
| 00:40.47 | foxlit | That's breaking the spirit of the thing, but it's relatively small compared to the variations in attendance. |
| 00:40.57 | foxlit | cbreak: generally, no. |
| 00:41.10 | Amarande | although, it also occurs to me that people who are mostly in it for the loot and would actually throw a fit about not getting something are folks you do not want in your raid |
| 00:41.12 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: that's a matter of philosophy, really. |
| 00:41.33 | foxlit | The end result is that everyone pays the same for the same quality of gear, no matter the path taken to it. |
| 00:42.00 | Amarande | loyal guildies will go to AQ20 with you in T9 if the guild wants to see AQ20. |
| 00:42.07 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: (note, he could have said "yes, those items would be free" and i would have been okay with it too. :P ) |
| 00:42.12 | foxlit | Which allows people to pick up minor upgrades; high attendance gets you epics faster. |
| 00:42.34 | Codayus_ | Amarande: That's true, but not really relevant. A major reason guildies are loyal is because they trust leadership to be fair. |
| 00:42.48 | Amarande | or whatever the loyalty testing "Lord, why the hell did they even put this in the game" raid happens to be :) |
| 00:42.56 | Amarande | speaking of which, which instance would you say is the worst designed raid ever in WoW? |
| 00:43.06 | cbreak | if you only charge the difference, someone who wins every item from molten core up to AQ40 pays the same as someone who loses every item to the other person and just wins one in the last tier |
| 00:43.10 | foxlit | We generally enforced attendance by requiring a certain percentage. |
| 00:43.16 | Codayus_ | Hard to say. MC springs to mind, but it was first, so I'd give them a partial pass. |
| 00:43.28 | cbreak | I hated AQ40 |
| 00:43.29 | foxlit | It was understood that you generally wanted to see end-game content, and would be there for ~70% of raid hours. |
| 00:43.37 | cbreak | because I hate trash. |
| 00:43.44 | cbreak | and I hate running back after wipes |
| 00:43.49 | cbreak | and AQ40 had plenty of both |
| 00:43.51 | Corr-work | trash is an annoyance specifically put there to piss you off |
| 00:43.52 | Amarande | probably a lot of people who hated Onyxia on ally side, too |
| 00:43.57 | Corr-work | i guess |
| 00:44.06 | Codayus_ | AQ40 had very different art direction, and some great fight mechanics. The trash was...not so hot, but I'm not sure it was enough to make the raid bad.... |
| 00:44.09 | foxlit | cbreak: aq40 taxi train == <3 |
| 00:44.11 | cbreak | I like onyxia and I am alliance |
| 00:44.21 | Amarande | indeed, trash is a reason why truly challenging, say, solo console RPGs put bosses several screens from the last save point :) |
| 00:44.28 | foxlit | Hey, at least the AQ40 trash kept you awake |
| 00:44.33 | foxlit | You could sleep through BT/Sunwell |
| 00:44.53 | cbreak | I found sunwell trash anoying |
| 00:45.03 | End | I like the new Naxx trash...you go through it SO fast |
| 00:45.04 | Codayus_ | Mmm, really depends what bit of the raid you care about. TK was a *terrible* raid in terms of design and art direction, but it had some cool fights, and in one case, an AWESOME fight. |
| 00:45.07 | cbreak | not too much, but a bit :) |
| 00:45.20 | Codayus_ | But from a lore/immersion PoV, it was 100% fail as far as I'm concerned. |
| 00:45.24 | Amarande | Main reason I say Alliance would hate Onyxia more than Horde is the quest line |
| 00:45.32 | Amarande | Alliance had to do that God awful escort quest in BRD |
| 00:45.38 | Amarande | Horde didn't have to do any escorts at all for theirs |
| 00:45.44 | cbreak | it wasn't that bad. |
| 00:45.46 | End | heh |
| 00:45.47 | foxlit | Horde had to slay some drakes |
| 00:45.57 | End | ours was much longer though :P |
| 00:46.01 | End | and not very interesting |
| 00:46.02 | Codayus_ | Amarande: Quest chain was fun and easy, the escort quest was trivial for anyone who belonged in the Lair IMHO. *shrug* |
| 00:46.04 | foxlit | Pre-clearing the escort path made he escort easy :) |
| 00:46.05 | cbreak | my favorite fight is Reliquary of Souls. |
| 00:46.18 | End | I didn't like RoS |
| 00:46.26 | foxlit | I tolerated it. |
| 00:46.30 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: going with people who didn't suck made the escort easy |
| 00:46.34 | cbreak | one of the few fights that is sort of a challenge for a dps |
| 00:46.36 | End | the self inflicted damage is annoying when you don't have enough raid damage |
| 00:46.39 | foxlit | Illidan has better design. |
| 00:46.42 | Codayus_ | The only person I've ever known to fail the escort for ony key chain was a guildmate who zoned out early. We laughed at him for months. |
| 00:46.57 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: it always does :) |
| 00:46.59 | Amarande | Codayus: there are plenty of people who are great at raid fights and such that I know who absolutely detest escort quests |
| 00:47.15 | Amarande | remember, escort quest usually = you now have an additional party member who's generally -even dumber- than the folks who stand in fire |
| 00:47.21 | Amarande | a party member who can't die at all! |
| 00:47.26 | Codayus_ | I detest escort quests too. They're boring, slow, and if you wander off to mine something you'll fail, so it's extra double boring. |
| 00:47.38 | Amarande | Codayus: plus the escortee never moves at an appropriate speed |
| 00:47.52 | Amarande | you get escort quests where the escortee runs like the wind and you can't kill the mobs fast enough before they run into the next set and die |
| 00:48.01 | Corr-work | and sometimes the escortee (intentionally?) pulls multiple groups of mobs you can't handle |
| 00:48.14 | Amarande | and you get escort quests where you need three cans of Red Bull to keep you awake because the escortee moves so freaking slow and if you get too far ahead you fail |
| 00:48.18 | cbreak | omg |
| 00:48.21 | End | I think escort quests would be a lot better if the person you were escorting had a leash |
| 00:48.22 | Codayus_ | But the Ony escort quest wasn't bad as escort quests go. Even if you didn't pre-clear, but since every pre-cleared, it was a joke. |
| 00:48.26 | cbreak | arthas is such a dolt in the new CoT |
| 00:48.30 | cbreak | I _hate_ that guy |
| 00:48.44 | NightHawkTheSane | End: it'd be better if the escortee functioned like a guardian/pet/etc |
| 00:48.49 | cbreak | he usually pulls four or five groups of elites before the laast boss |
| 00:48.56 | End | well |
| 00:48.57 | Amarande | Night: Yeah, that would be an awesome idea |
| 00:49.04 | NightHawkTheSane | but, it doesn't scale |
| 00:49.08 | End | yeah, they'd have to tell you where to go though |
| 00:49.09 | Amarande | Consider say the way Guild Wars does "NPC must survive" missions |
| 00:49.28 | Amarande | the NPCs are added to your party roster as Allies which makes it far easier to keep track (not to mention keep them healed and such) |
| 00:49.32 | foxlit | magical 1% HP divine shields for everyone! |
| 00:49.39 | NightHawkTheSane | End: that too, although in a lot of cases its fairly obvious |
| 00:49.42 | Codayus_ | Actually, the really really REALLY awful escort missions which are why everyone hates them is the ones where the escotee falls asleep, and you have to use an item. |
| 00:49.47 | End | usually it is |
| 00:50.00 | Codayus_ | There's like, 3-4 of them in the game at least, and they're just *terrible*. |
| 00:50.05 | End | mostly if it's a "get me out of here quest" |
| 00:50.07 | Amarande | Of course, for Guild Wars, they had a freaking TON of "NPC must survive" missions |
| 00:50.10 | End | not all escorts are that type though |
| 00:50.12 | Amarande | so it was a lot more important there for them to have a widget |
| 00:50.26 | Lunessa | LOL - "[4. Battleground] France: Just let them win guyz" |
| 00:50.29 | Amarande | Codayus_: the good side of those is that usually the escortee also doesn't aggro mobs, and you're generally given plenty of time |
| 00:50.31 | Amarande | like the one in un'goro |
| 00:50.37 | Amarande | you have to be total fail to fail that :) |
| 00:50.44 | Codayus_ | In the NE zone there's one to escort a druid across two freaking zones, it's the worst quest in game, I swear. |
| 00:50.56 | foxlit | A druid? |
| 00:50.57 | Amarande | Codayus_: the Darkshore to Ashenvale escort? |
| 00:50.59 | Amarande | I remember that one :S |
| 00:51.02 | Codayus_ | Yes |
| 00:51.03 | foxlit | Thought that was a paladin |
| 00:51.10 | Amarande | I did that one on my shaman a while ago |
| 00:51.12 | foxlit | It's not across two freaking zones :) |
| 00:51.17 | Codayus_ | No, there's a paladin where you drop him of. |
| 00:51.23 | Amarande | it wasn't that bad with a teammate, but I'd have hated to solo it |
| 00:51.33 | Codayus_ | Pft, might as well be. Across most of two zones... :-( |
| 00:51.42 | foxlit | There are like three scripted spawns along the way |
| 00:52.12 | foxlit | The Darkshore->Delgren in Ashenvale chunk is miniscule compared to the size of ashenvale |
| 00:52.30 | Amarande | The worst escorts are the higher level non-instance ones |
| 00:52.36 | Codayus_ | Just because Ashenvale is a terrible zone. :-p |
| 00:52.36 | Amarande | If I had to pick a single worst escort quest ever? |
| 00:52.43 | Amarande | The Horde one in Hellfire |
| 00:52.52 | Amarande | Leads to a short chain, so you miss out on a bunch more xp if you don't do it |
| 00:52.59 | cbreak | http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=12082 |
| 00:53.01 | Amarande | and it's also near-impossible to do some times of day |
| 00:53.02 | End | which one? where is it |
| 00:53.05 | cbreak | probably the best escort quest ever. |
| 00:53.09 | NightHawkTheSane | there's at least two horde escorts in hellfire |
| 00:53.09 | cbreak | maybe. |
| 00:53.27 | Amarande | End: The Road to Falcon Watch |
| 00:53.29 | NightHawkTheSane | ive never had a problem with any of them, at any time |
| 00:53.48 | Amarande | Night: last time I deigned to bother with it I had all kinds of problems with alliance ganking the escort npc |
| 00:53.48 | End | I don't remember that one |
| 00:54.01 | Amarande | and they were rogue and hunter, so I couldn't even kill them in revenge |
| 00:54.08 | Amarande | even though ganking the npc flagged them |
| 00:54.16 | End | hm |
| 00:54.20 | End | I've never done that one |
| 00:54.26 | End | oh wait |
| 00:54.28 | End | yes I have |
| 00:54.31 | Amarande | apparently they were the most immature of alliance kids, too |
| 00:54.48 | Amarande | I figure this based on their use of /spit after I was dead |
| 00:55.02 | Amarande | mature folks rarely, if ever use /spit |
| 00:55.08 | cbreak | maybe some stupid achievement in the guild of stupid people. |
| 00:55.25 | Amarande | I don't get why they feel like disrupting such quests either |
| 00:55.31 | Amarande | on a PvP server maybe, but I play strictly on PvE servers |
| 00:55.52 | Amarande | actually ... wait, maybe that's why :) |
| 00:56.16 | Amarande | On a PvP server, you get to regularly discharge your rage against slights made against you by the opposite faction, since that's what PvP servers are -all about- |
| 00:56.40 | Corr-work | i thought they were about fostering nerd rage |
| 00:56.51 | Amarande | On PvE servers, you get very few opportunities to get back at the opposite faction, so the nerd rage stews and simmers over the course of an evening |
| 00:57.00 | Corr-work | :D |
| 00:57.07 | Corr-work | it's a good term, isn't it. |
| 00:57.18 | Amarande | and if you happen to get the opportunity to discharge the nerdrage, such as killing someone's escort NPC, you might not even be thinking about not taking it heh |
| 00:57.31 | Corr-work | now i go home. see ya |
| 00:57.42 | Amarande | personally, I can only ever remember ganking an alliance guy doing a quest once |
| 00:58.01 | Amarande | and well ... 1) he was already flagged, 2) we were both in direct competition for the same mobs, and 3) he was actually almost the same level, maybe even one above me |
| 00:58.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 00:58.23 | Amarande | so it was actually an HK, not like most ganks where someone picks on the lowbies |
| 00:58.47 | Amarande | I forget the exact level difference, but I know they were yellow |
| 00:58.52 | Lunessa | Amarande: I spent several months on a PvP server at retail launch. That was enough to last me a life time. |
| 00:59.14 | Amarande | and a hunter, so they might have stood a chance against an aff lock ... wasn't like I actually had any really great gear |
| 00:59.17 | Dashkal | I wonder what exactly they mean when they say the debuff limit no longer effectively exists |
| 00:59.27 | Dashkal | the phrasing struck me as odd |
| 01:01.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: it means once you get over 40 debuffs, a process kicks in to randomly remove debuffs based on how much whining that class who applied it has done on the forums in the past week. |
| 01:02.52 | Codayus_ | Heh, I had the same thought. |
| 01:03.05 | Codayus_ | The weasel words used smell of something very hackish going on. |
| 01:03.15 | Dashkal | I figure it's just that the bandwidth requirements will scale somewhat with the number of debuffs now |
| 01:03.54 | Dashkal | at a guess the hard limit is now 255 or some such :p |
| 01:05.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Lothaer (n=jamiecoo@115-166-38-187.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 01:06.50 | Lothaer | hey guys |
| 01:08.31 | Amarande | wow, I just stumbled on the infernal summoning quest |
| 01:08.43 | spode | hmm, does anyone know of an addon that simply adds 'ilevel' to the tooltip of an item? can't find tekilevel anymore :( |
| 01:09.35 | cbreak | well. ratingbuster does. and more |
| 01:09.36 | End | I was using an AddOn called ItemLevel that was doing it |
| 01:09.40 | *** join/#wowuidev bnovc (n=bnovc@67.159.57.227) |
| 01:10.31 | Wobin | Amarande: El Pollo Diablo? |
| 01:10.41 | spode | yeah I know ratingbuster does it but I don't really want the 'more' it does. I'll check out ItemLevel |
| 01:11.22 | Lothaer | anyone know a good swing timer mod? |
| 01:12.06 | Amarande | Wobin: Flawless Fel Essence |
| 01:12.08 | NightHawkTheSane | quartz? |
| 01:12.19 | cbreak | quartz gives me errors all the time |
| 01:12.29 | cbreak | (the buff timer part) |
| 01:12.32 | NightHawkTheSane | really? its been working fine for me |
| 01:12.47 | Amarande | I switched from quartz to ecb a while ago |
| 01:12.49 | NightHawkTheSane | you might not have the most updated version |
| 01:12.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Nom- (n=nom@standen.id.au) |
| 01:13.22 | End | I don't think the latest version is on all the sites |
| 01:13.23 | cbreak | I have the newest from curse |
| 01:13.26 | cbreak | but it's ancient |
| 01:13.42 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, i think there were some changes committed, but not pushed out |
| 01:13.56 | NightHawkTheSane | for the 3.0 unitaura changes, etc. |
| 01:14.04 | Lothaer | i just want the swing timer |
| 01:15.03 | NightHawkTheSane | you should be able to disable any modules you dont want |
| 01:16.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 01:24.44 | linear` | anyone know what texture under Ouro is in this picture. the line that seperates the statusbar and buttons http://www.warcraftcheese.com/publicmods/gpoker%20gui%20phase4.jpg |
| 01:29.43 | Lunessa | looks like the tooltip border to me. |
| 01:30.31 | Amarande | wb Cairenn :) |
| 01:30.35 | Cairenn | thanks :) |
| 01:30.38 | Amarande | say, was there originally supposed to be a PvP area in Azshara? |
| 01:30.51 | cbreak | yes |
| 01:30.55 | linear` | how would i get the tooltip border as a line |
| 01:30.57 | cbreak | a BG I think |
| 01:31.01 | Amarande | I've been exploring, and I saw this mountain that has two opposite entrances, one with blue and one with red flags but there doesn't seem to be anything here |
| 01:31.21 | Amarande | they should add it in as the new BG in next expansion |
| 01:31.28 | Amarande | there needs to be more reason to go to azshara :) |
| 01:32.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso| (n=Kaso@78.151.165.116) |
| 01:32.06 | Lunessa | Hydraxian Waterlords rep. |
| 01:32.14 | cbreak | molten core |
| 01:32.21 | cbreak | and the gong questline |
| 01:32.33 | cbreak | and polymorph pig |
| 01:32.55 | Lunessa | Thorium. |
| 01:33.16 | Lunessa | The Engineering deep-sea helmet plans. |
| 01:33.22 | bnovc | wowwiki does not make finding function names easy |
| 01:33.51 | Amarande | Lunessa: BTW, do you think it's time they made an upgrade to the deep-sea helmet? |
| 01:34.07 | bnovc | bleh, whats the command to set my target? |
| 01:34.08 | Shiibot | New WoW-EU Server Alert: There will be rolling restarts of all realms, starting at approximately , 05:00 Paris time (CET). Each realm will receive a 15 minute notice prior to being restarted. . . Thank you for your patience and understanding.. . |
| 01:34.08 | Shiibot | 03/12 FREE MIGRATION. The following free migration is scheduled to last until Tuesday, December 9th. . |
| 01:34.08 | Shiibot | To the NEW realm named Chamber of Aspects: Anachronos, Bronze Dragonflight, Bronzebeard, Darkspear, Ghostlands, Hellfire, Khadgar, Kilrogg, Kul Tiras, Nagrand, Terenas, Wildhammer. . Drak'thul, Grim Batol, Sylvanas --> Bladefist |
| 01:34.41 | Lunessa | I actually don't much care. I mean, I have spells for it, nagrand crap-berries, and all kinds of quest items for breathing under water. |
| 01:34.47 | Amarande | heh |
| 01:34.58 | Amarande | I just realized when going through my bank that nagrand cherries are almost worthless now |
| 01:35.35 | cbreak | the only item from a pre-70 dungeon I cary around is the hydrocane. |
| 01:36.32 | Amarande | now that you have three minute waterbreathing by default, a 5 min one isn't all that useful anymore |
| 01:36.45 | Amarande | not to mention people really wanting waterbreathing are going to want to get it from a glyphed lock now too |
| 01:36.58 | Lunessa | I play a shaman. |
| 01:37.08 | Lunessa | I have the reagent-free glyph. |
| 01:38.30 | Amarande | Lunessa: Locks get a glyph that causes any Unending Breaths they cast to carry a 20% swimspeed boost as well |
| 01:38.53 | Amarande | It's almost TOO good for a minor glyph, seeing as unending breath was virtually a freebie cast anyway |
| 01:39.03 | Lunessa | Aha... that explains how those little fuckers are beating me to underwater mining nodes. |
| 01:39.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: wts druid with aquatic form glyph :P |
| 01:39.48 | cbreak | sea horse form? |
| 01:39.50 | cbreak | shark form? |
| 01:39.53 | cbreak | dolphing maybe. |
| 01:39.58 | NightHawkTheSane | sea-cow |
| 01:40.06 | cbreak | boring. |
| 01:40.15 | cbreak | rubber-boat form. |
| 01:40.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-67-183-90-200.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:40.22 | NightHawkTheSane | yellow submarine form? |
| 01:40.26 | Dashkal | ^^ |
| 01:40.39 | cbreak | we all love the yellow submarine form |
| 01:40.40 | Amarande | Night: heh, that should be the next engineering mount |
| 01:40.52 | Lunessa | Off for home. See you guys tomorrow. |
| 01:42.00 | Amarande | agh. |
| 01:42.07 | Amarande | that has to be one of my most annoying exploration deaths ever ... |
| 01:42.55 | Amarande | Off a cliff in Azshara. Missed the water. Graveyard's all the way on the opposite side of a mountain. |
| 01:44.28 | Tem | oh my dear god |
| 01:44.38 | Esamynn | heh, ouch |
| 01:44.38 | Amarande | Tem: ? |
| 01:44.40 | Tem | I thought nether essences were bod |
| 01:44.43 | Tem | bad |
| 01:44.48 | Amarande | Bod? |
| 01:44.51 | Tem | I just graduated to eternal essences |
| 01:44.54 | Amarande | Tem, I think you've been hanging out with the Darkspears too much :) |
| 01:44.55 | Tem | and they fucking double in price |
| 01:45.20 | Amarande | Tem: yeah, eternal essences and brilliant shards are evil beasts |
| 01:45.29 | Amarande | been like that ever since BC |
| 01:45.33 | Esamynn | Tem: eternal is the last level that can be used for low level twinks, so yah, really bad |
| 01:45.42 | Tem | ugh |
| 01:46.00 | Amarande | Esamynn: and they're a casualty of outland, too |
| 01:46.07 | Amarande | like large brilliant shards are |
| 01:46.30 | Amarande | LBS are worst, since blues that DE into them only reliably drop from a) instances no one goes to anymore, or b) crafting recipes that cost about 20 times what the shards are worth |
| 01:46.43 | Amarande | and you need four for crusader :S |
| 01:46.57 | NeoTron | anyone elses server's eternal life costing a fortune? |
| 01:47.01 | Esamynn | LBSs are SOOOOO easy to farm now though |
| 01:47.09 | Amarande | speaking of which, I expect LBS prices to go further up, too |
| 01:47.24 | Amarande | the BoA heirloom stuff can only take enchants that a level 1 item is eligible for, right? |
| 01:48.04 | NeoTron | yep |
| 01:48.10 | Tem | Esamynn, if and only if you have an enchanter high enough level to do that |
| 01:48.42 | Amarande | yeah, I expect LBS to skyrocket, then |
| 01:49.15 | Amarande | since the best thing you can put on an heirloom weapon is crusader, then |
| 01:49.26 | Esamynn | Tem: I have a enchanter that can STEALTH that is high enough to do that ;) |
| 01:49.36 | Tem | ooh that's not fair |
| 01:49.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (n=nahh@178.80-202-153.nextgentel.com) |
| 01:50.26 | Amarande | yeah, my enchanter is a priest and pretty much can't solo any instances except for super low level ones |
| 01:50.30 | Amarande | though she's also only level 62 |
| 01:50.50 | Amarande | have the heirlooms been tried much in bg twinking yet? |
| 01:51.24 | Amarande | wondering how they compare to the usual blue twinkers |
| 01:52.47 | Tem | I imagine they work very well |
| 01:52.50 | Amarande | another thing is I would logically suspect that Crusader could regain popularity in general |
| 01:52.52 | Tem | since that's kind of their pupose |
| 01:53.28 | Amarande | not only because of heirlooms, and the fact that they'll make low level grinding stupid easy, plus the bg twinker element |
| 01:53.43 | Amarande | but because it's logical to expect that Mongoose will start becoming rarer and rarer |
| 01:54.32 | Pneumatus | is it possible to enchant level-limited enchants on heirloom items? |
| 01:54.32 | Shiibot | New WoW-US Server Alert: 12/04/2008 5:48 PM . |
| 01:54.33 | Shiibot | We will be performing rolling restarts for all realms beginning at 05:00 AM PST and Oceanic at 12:00 PM. Each realm should be affected for no more than 15 minutes, with all restarts completing within approximately one hour.. |
| 01:54.33 | Shiibot | Thank you,. . Blizzard Entertainment. |
| 01:54.52 | Amarande | Pneumatus: no |
| 01:54.58 | Pneumatus | lose :< |
| 01:55.05 | Amarande | that's what I meant above by 'only take enchants that a level 1 item is eligible for' |
| 01:55.16 | Amarande | none of the level 35+ or 60+ enchants will work, so no mongoose or executioner |
| 01:55.20 | Amarande | crusader, yes |
| 01:55.22 | NightHawkTheSane | 420 fishing >< |
| 01:55.31 | Amarande | which makes them a really good investment for leveling up alts |
| 01:55.42 | Amarande | since crusader on a low level character lets you kill things stupidly fast |
| 01:56.01 | Amarande | especially if you get a dagger, which virtually everyone can use |
| 01:56.25 | NightHawkTheSane | actually, sub-40, fiery is amazing |
| 01:56.44 | NeoTron | I like heirloom items |
| 01:56.45 | Amarande | (how many classes *can't* use daggers? I can't remember now, but only one or two I think) |
| 01:56.47 | NeoTron | too bad it's to late :P |
| 01:56.55 | NeoTron | Amarande: dk's and pallies at least |
| 01:56.57 | Pneumatus | pallys |
| 01:56.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: pallies and dks |
| 01:57.33 | Amarande | As for my expectation for Mongoose to become increasingly rare, that simply follows from the fact that now that WotLK is here, people will be doing BC heroics and raids less and less often |
| 01:57.57 | Amarande | therefore, there will be fewer and fewer BC epics in play to create the needed void crystals, and you need to cannibalize six epics per mongoose |
| 01:58.11 | Amarande | plus the general drop in percentage of enchanters who can do it because most people will skip kara now |
| 01:59.40 | Shiibot | New WoW-US Server Alert: 12/04/2008 5:48 PM . |
| 01:59.40 | Shiibot | We will be performing rolling restarts for all realms beginning at 05:00 AM PST and Oceanic at 12:00 PM. Each realm should be affected for no more than 15 minutes, with all restarts completing within approximately one hour.. |
| 01:59.40 | Shiibot | Thank you,. . Blizzard Entertainment. |
| 02:00.17 | NeoTron | ~fail Shiibot |
| 02:00.18 | purl | Shiibot: FAIL! |
| 02:00.56 | Adys | is PlayerModel:SetCreature() supposed to give untextured models for some npcs? |
| 02:03.20 | Shiibot | New WoW-US Server Alert: 12/04/2008 5:48 PM . |
| 02:03.21 | Shiibot | We will be performing rolling restarts for all realms beginning at 05:00 AM PST and Oceanic at 12:00 PM. Each realm should be affected for no more than 15 minutes, with all restarts completing within approximately one hour.. |
| 02:03.21 | Shiibot | Thank you,. . Blizzard Entertainment. |
| 02:04.13 | Amarande | hmm |
| 02:04.22 | Amarande | I also swear wowhead causes more character deaths than anything else in the game |
| 02:05.32 | Esamynn | lol' |
| 02:05.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Sweet, more realm trolls in my recruitment thread |
| 02:05.45 | ScytheBlade1 | You'd think after the first account got postnuked + banned the guy would wise up |
| 02:06.36 | Amarande | Esamynn: things sneaking up on you when you check wowhead, mostly :) |
| 02:07.08 | Shiibot | New WoW-US Server Alert: 12/04/2008 5:48 PM . |
| 02:07.08 | Shiibot | We will be performing rolling restarts for all realms beginning at 05:00 AM PST and Oceanic at 12:00 PM. Each realm should be affected for no more than 15 minutes, with all restarts completing within approximately one hour.. |
| 02:07.08 | Shiibot | Thank you,. . Blizzard Entertainment. |
| 02:07.21 | NeoTron | ok Shiibot is officially freaking out |
| 02:07.22 | Esamynn | I swear, being a Jewelcrafter is such a HUGE Pain in the ASS, the number of reputations you have to grind up, and then there's a whole bunch that cost Stone Keeper's Shards |
| 02:07.38 | NeoTron | Esamynn: JC definitely got a short end of the stick |
| 02:07.50 | NeoTron | one of our enchanters is already fully taught |
| 02:08.02 | Esamynn | that's easy |
| 02:08.04 | NeoTron | 75-150g per pattern... and you're done |
| 02:08.05 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: its their punishment for ripping the rest of us off. :p |
| 02:08.11 | Esamynn | you buy the shards, and there's only 3 patterns that you have to farm for |
| 02:08.16 | NeoTron | I know |
| 02:08.20 | NeoTron | that was my point |
| 02:08.32 | Esamynn | my JC is an alt, which makes it even more difficult :/ |
| 02:08.37 | NeoTron | mine is too now |
| 02:08.39 | Tem | imo, JC is the most powerful profession in terms of exclusive self buffs right now |
| 02:08.50 | Tem | blacksmiths get 2 extra sockets |
| 02:08.59 | Tem | JCs get a trinket with 2 sockets |
| 02:09.00 | NeoTron | it's not really |
| 02:09.06 | Tem | (no other trinkets have sockets) |
| 02:09.11 | Esamynn | I should have made my main my JC and just used the alt for mining |
| 02:09.24 | Tem | so that's like getting smithing's buff for free |
| 02:09.30 | Tem | plus you get 3 uber gems |
| 02:09.55 | Esamynn | but switching now would be.... really F'ing expensive |
| 02:09.57 | NeoTron | sure they have slots but the trinket slots has a budget |
| 02:10.40 | NeoTron | ofc inscritpion is pretty painful to finish up |
| 02:10.44 | NeoTron | I'm at 340 |
| 02:10.57 | Esamynn | NeoTron: once you hit 400, there's no point in going higher |
| 02:11.09 | NeoTron | spent 150g on herbs to get the two rare pigments needed to make the ink needed for my last research |
| 02:11.17 | NeoTron | sorry, I'm at 440 |
| 02:11.22 | Esamynn | why? |
| 02:11.24 | Amarande | Tem: isn't the belt socketing BS item redistributable? |
| 02:11.29 | Esamynn | seriously, why would you bother? |
| 02:11.29 | Amarande | the eternal belt buckle I mean |
| 02:11.37 | Amarande | so it's not really a BS exclusive |
| 02:11.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: research is generally worth doing as long as you're still learnign new glyphs |
| 02:11.46 | Tem | Amarande, BS get BS-only glove and bracer sockets |
| 02:11.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: glove/bracer socket |
| 02:11.49 | Amarande | btw, what color socket does the eternal belt buckle give? |
| 02:11.53 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: aye, but that's it |
| 02:11.53 | NeoTron | research skills you up |
| 02:12.09 | NightHawkTheSane | all added sockets have no color, as there's no socket bonus associated with them |
| 02:12.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: what NeoTron said. :P |
| 02:12.28 | Amarande | Esamynn: I'd say that you should skill up to 425 eventually in inscription, actually |
| 02:12.42 | NeoTron | one would wonder wtf there's nothing above skill level 400 though |
| 02:12.51 | Esamynn | ^ |
| 02:13.04 | Esamynn | Inscription is really a one trick pony |
| 02:13.05 | NeoTron | it's like they just decided "ah well, this is good enough" |
| 02:13.07 | Amarande | Esamynn: 425 means you'll be ready for the next xpack whenever that comes out |
| 02:13.18 | Amarande | since I presume you'll need 425 in all profs to get supreme master or whatever 525 gets called |
| 02:13.23 | NeoTron | I picked inscription for the shoulder enchants |
| 02:13.29 | NeoTron | whcih are really nice for dps |
| 02:13.38 | NeoTron | less nice for tanking which I ended up actually being |
| 02:13.40 | Amarande | not to mention, won't they be coming out with epic raid glyphs eventually? |
| 02:13.43 | Esamynn | so did I, as a Druid, having Tailoring before really wasn't doing much for me |
| 02:13.51 | Amarande | possibly as BoP perks for the scribe only |
| 02:14.02 | NeoTron | Amarande: who knows |
| 02:14.07 | NeoTron | they don't like "BoP items" |
| 02:14.10 | Esamynn | but given the rep grinds needed for JC, I wish I'd droppped tailoring when TBC came out and made my Druid my JC instead of my Shaman |
| 02:14.17 | NeoTron | but is there any other profession without anything beyond 400? |
| 02:14.20 | Amarande | I'm sticking with mining/JC on the lock and tailoring/enchanting on the priest |
| 02:14.37 | Amarande | Neo: or perhaps have the epic glyphs require their level in inscription to use as well as make |
| 02:14.57 | Amarande | or a new epic set of shoulder enchants at 450 |
| 02:15.25 | Esamynn | they really do need to give Scribes something |
| 02:15.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Does anyone have a copy of the ASCII "fuel gauge"? Going from Empty to Full, needle at 3/4, with text under stating "Your tears fuel me"? |
| 02:16.39 | Esamynn | but yah, the JC rep grind pisses me off, primarily because I'm a rep nut on my main, but I don't really feel like repeating the same grind for my alt as well :/ |
| 02:16.39 | Shiibot | New WoW-US Server Alert: 12/04/2008 5:48 PM . |
| 02:16.39 | Shiibot | We will be performing rolling restarts for all realms beginning at 05:00 AM PST and Oceanic at 12:00 PM. Each realm should be affected for no more than 15 minutes, with all restarts completing within approximately one hour.. |
| 02:16.39 | Shiibot | Thank you,. . Blizzard Entertainment. |
| 02:16.44 | Esamynn | leaves me very torn |
| 02:16.46 | Esamynn | ~lart Shiibot |
| 02:16.46 | purl | gives Shiibot an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending Shiibot to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple |
| 02:16.52 | NeoTron | there are a literal ton of discoverable glyphs |
| 02:17.14 | NeoTron | they should have spread them out in the remaining difficulty range and alloed you to only discover ones below your skill level |
| 02:17.32 | NeoTron | Esamynn: flipside is youi can pick waht you want to learn |
| 02:17.41 | WhiteWolf | ScytheBlade1: are you talking about something simple or complex? the simple one i know is E .· ` ' / ·. F |
| 02:17.48 | NeoTron | Esamynn: with both alchemy and jc you have to do something every day/4 days/week and I have nothing I can farm for |
| 02:17.52 | WhiteWolf | or any other symbols you care to use |
| 02:18.11 | NeoTron | so unless I'm lazy and don't do something every day theer's no way to speed it up and no way to selectively try to get something specific |
| 02:18.15 | ScytheBlade1 | WhiteWolf: hmm that's pretty good |
| 02:18.15 | Esamynn | NeoTron: the daily I don't mind, that's ok |
| 02:18.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Fatalis[AFK] (n=fatalis@68-188-68-189.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 02:18.20 | Adys | anyone here ever played around with models? =\ |
| 02:18.35 | Esamynn | NeoTron: it's the fact that i'm torn between which char to do my rep grinds on :( |
| 02:19.31 | Amarande | hmm, need to know this for guildie |
| 02:19.33 | NeoTron | although there is something I can farm - the spell protection potions |
| 02:19.45 | Amarande | is it possible to swim up from durotar to azshara without dying from fatigue? |
| 02:19.56 | NeoTron | so as an alchemist I have 4 items to farm for |
| 02:19.57 | NeoTron | whee |
| 02:19.57 | Amarande | on the east side that is, to get to the gnomes with the deepdive helmet schematic |
| 02:20.02 | Tekkub | I think I just watched the greatest anime battle ever... |
| 02:20.10 | Tekkub | tanuki crushing humans with their giant testicles |
| 02:20.10 | Shiibot | New WoW-US Server Alert: 12/04/2008 5:48 PM . |
| 02:20.11 | Shiibot | We will be performing rolling restarts for all realms beginning at 05:00 AM PST and Oceanic at 12:00 PM. Each realm should be affected for no more than 15 minutes, with all restarts completing within approximately one hour.. |
| 02:20.11 | Shiibot | Thank you,. . Blizzard Entertainment. |
| 02:20.40 | Esamynn | Cairenn: can you please silence Shiibot ? |
| 02:20.50 | Tekkub | permanently |
| 02:20.55 | Esamynn | lol |
| 02:21.52 | Tem | Esamynn, what do you have against him? |
| 02:22.08 | NightHawkTheSane | im going to go with..'spamming the same server alert 3 times now?" |
| 02:22.22 | Esamynn | Tem: nothing, I just figure he should be silenced because he's broken |
| 02:22.32 | Tem | is he? |
| 02:23.04 | Tem | oh I see |
| 02:23.12 | Esamynn | ~bonk Te |
| 02:23.13 | purl | ACTION bonks esamynn on behalf of Te |
| 02:23.14 | Esamynn | ~bonk Tem |
| 02:23.14 | purl | ACTION bonks esamynn on behalf of Tem |
| 02:23.17 | Esamynn | lol |
| 02:23.18 | Tem | I'm a little preocupied |
| 02:23.25 | Esamynn | ~botsnack |
| 02:23.25 | purl | Esamynn: thanks |
| 02:24.16 | Cairenn | it isn't like he's spamming the channel really though |
| 02:24.33 | Cairenn | if it was doing it continuously I'd worry about it, but it isn't ... |
| 02:24.44 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@c-68-35-53-13.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 02:24.58 | Esamynn | well fine then :P |
| 02:24.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Corgan (n=Corgan@cpe-66-91-4-18.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 02:28.00 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@c-68-35-53-13.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 02:30.09 | Shiibot | New WoW-US Server Alert: 12/04/2008 5:48 PM . |
| 02:30.09 | Shiibot | We will be performing rolling restarts for all realms beginning at 05:00 AM PST and Oceanic at 12:00 PM. Each realm should be affected for no more than 15 minutes, with all restarts completing within approximately one hour.. |
| 02:30.09 | Shiibot | Thank you,. . Blizzard Entertainment. |
| 02:30.30 | Thunder_Child | Shiibot seems to have a glitch |
| 02:30.41 | Adys | ~whaleglitch Shiibot |
| 02:30.46 | ScytheBlade1 | What makes you think thaT? |
| 02:30.47 | Tekkub | really? |
| 02:30.48 | ScytheBlade1 | *that |
| 02:31.18 | batrick | ur face has a glitch |
| 02:33.40 | Esamynn | ~lart batrick |
| 02:33.40 | purl | squishes batrick like a bug |
| 02:34.14 | Thunder_Child | yes batrick, the glitch is that it is looking at you |
| 02:34.14 | Shiibot | New WoW-US Server Alert: 12/04/2008 5:48 PM . |
| 02:34.14 | Shiibot | We will be performing rolling restarts for all realms beginning at 05:00 AM PST and Oceanic at 12:00 PM. Each realm should be affected for no more than 15 minutes, with all restarts completing within approximately one hour.. |
| 02:34.14 | Shiibot | Thank you,. . Blizzard Entertainment. |
| 02:36.04 | *** kick/#WoWUIDev [Shiibot!n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn] by Cairenn (Cairenn) |
| 02:36.49 | Esamynn | lol |
| 02:37.28 | Esamynn | Cairenn: not quite what I asked for, but definitely more satisfying ;) |
| 02:37.41 | Cairenn | heh |
| 02:38.07 | Adys | botophobia :( |
| 02:38.13 | Cairenn | easier, too - this way shirik just fixes him when he gets back and brings him in the room again, rather than me having to remember to un-mute him |
| 02:40.42 | bnovc | since it requires a secure frame can TargetUnit only be used if a person clicks on the button? and i'd only be able to target something that was defined when i was out of combat, right? |
| 02:41.07 | Esamynn | right |
| 02:41.32 | Esamynn | you can use headers to redefine what the frame targets, within certain limitations, but all the rules have to be setup out of combat |
| 02:42.12 | bnovc | so i couldn't do something like auto-target someone when they get to 80% hp, right? |
| 02:42.22 | Esamynn | no |
| 02:42.36 | Esamynn | quite intentionally not |
| 02:42.42 | bnovc | i figured so |
| 02:45.13 | batrick | messy |
| 02:46.18 | Amarande | only if you stayed out of combat until the target was at 80% |
| 02:46.23 | Amarande | as far as I understand it |
| 02:46.27 | *** join/#wowuidev [ThraeBot] (n=[ThraeBo@pool-173-67-40-78.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:46.33 | Amarande | and that only works solo and in 5-mans since in raids when one member is in combat they all are |
| 02:47.01 | Adys | no. |
| 02:47.06 | Adys | and also no |
| 02:50.48 | abyx | aahggghhhhhh [Embrace of the Spider] just went to an enhance shaman |
| 02:51.10 | Thrae | Enhance Shamans need more embraces from spiders! |
| 02:51.12 | Amarande | speaking of aahgggghhhh's on loot, they *have* fixed the master looter bug from 2.1, right? |
| 02:51.55 | Adys | which one |
| 02:57.31 | Amarande | Adys: the one with BoP trade skill recipes |
| 02:57.38 | Amarande | I was just reading about it on the Mongoose enchant page on wowhead |
| 02:57.42 | Adys | yes |
| 02:58.01 | Amarande | apparently at least one kara raid lost their mongoose enchant to that heh |
| 03:00.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@pD957DC71.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:02.21 | NightHawkTheSane | im going to murder the jackass who thought it'd be a good idea to put the mobs with the best drop rate for crystallized fire in a fucking pvp zone |
| 03:02.53 | Thunder_Child | "Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Dumbass Tuesday, and Boring Wednesday" >.< |
| 03:05.45 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: not to mention that you can only see and attack the ones with the very best drop rates when your faction holds the zone? ;) |
| 03:05.56 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: indeed |
| 03:06.12 | NightHawkTheSane | so far, that hasn't bothered me too much, as control of the zone seems to be fairly even. |
| 03:06.31 | kd3 | ...gasp! a reason to pvp in wintergrasp? |
| 03:06.40 | NightHawkTheSane | i managed to get 3 eternals before some fucktard alliance decided they couldn't play nice. |
| 03:07.18 | NightHawkTheSane | which of course, ported me to an inner graveyard, where MORE mouthbreather retards decided it was fun to spawn-camp |
| 03:07.30 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin (n=quoin@115-166-13-29.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 03:07.55 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: umm, you can't "spawn camp" not exactly anyways |
| 03:08.35 | *** join/#wowuidev topsub (n=josh@cpe-075-176-027-152.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 03:08.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: so, what's lingering the rezzers waiting for people to rez, then? |
| 03:08.48 | NightHawkTheSane | lingering outside* |
| 03:09.16 | Esamynn | semi spawn camping ;) |
| 03:09.38 | NightHawkTheSane | :p |
| 03:10.53 | Amarande | I guess it's time that fire became somewhat challenging to farm, though |
| 03:11.01 | Amarande | after two eras worth of it being ezmode |
| 03:11.28 | Amarande | now you know how people who need air elemental items feel, heh |
| 03:11.34 | NightHawkTheSane | o_0 are you high? |
| 03:11.44 | NightHawkTheSane | primal fire was always just as expensive as primal air |
| 03:12.07 | Esamynn | dunno why |
| 03:12.19 | Esamynn | primal fire was almost as easy to get as primal earth |
| 03:12.25 | Amarande | yeah, what Esamynn said |
| 03:12.29 | Amarande | primal air, on the other hand ... |
| 03:12.40 | NightHawkTheSane | i always found air easier |
| 03:12.54 | Amarande | well, if you wanted azerothian air elemental items, it's easy, you just go to silithus and the air elementals drop elemental air and essence of air almost all the time, and even breath of wind pretty often |
| 03:13.00 | NightHawkTheSane | primal fire mobs were always heavily camped |
| 03:13.03 | Amarande | seemed like outland air elementals NEVER wanted to drop motes though |
| 03:13.22 | NightHawkTheSane | (well, mote, but yeah) |
| 03:14.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Quaiche_ (n=PProvost@c-75-70-0-80.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 03:16.23 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: I'm not talking about farming mobs for fire, you could get it from mining |
| 03:16.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: yeah, but if you're not a miner. >< |
| 03:16.52 | Esamynn | still means it should have been cheaper than air |
| 03:17.14 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* every time i've looked it's always been the same as air on my realm |
| 03:17.25 | NightHawkTheSane | (more or less) |
| 03:19.56 | ZorbaTHut | anyone know how on earth you get inside gundrak? :P |
| 03:20.05 | NightHawkTheSane | through the portal? |
| 03:20.11 | NightHawkTheSane | hell,there's -two- |
| 03:20.12 | ZorbaTHut | where's the portal? |
| 03:20.20 | Thrae | ZorbaTHut: $10 and a cheap drink. |
| 03:20.22 | NightHawkTheSane | northeast zul'drak |
| 03:20.45 | ZorbaTHut | we found the giant building labeled "zul'drak", we just can't, you know, find a portal inside |
| 03:21.22 | NightHawkTheSane | it's not in the building, the portals are in the two little buildings to the west/south |
| 03:21.31 | NightHawkTheSane | 76,21 |
| 03:21.32 | ZorbaTHut | ahh, I see |
| 03:21.34 | ZorbaTHut | thanks :) |
| 03:21.37 | NightHawkTheSane | 81,28 |
| 03:22.34 | NightHawkTheSane | im surprised you didn't see the stone, actually |
| 03:23.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Kirov (n=Kirov@c-24-16-58-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:25.50 | Tem | ZorbaTHut, RIGHT next to the stone |
| 03:29.49 | ZorbaTHut | we found the stone, but for some reason couldn't find the portal |
| 03:29.51 | ZorbaTHut | inside now though :D |
| 03:31.22 | Tem | it took me forever too |
| 03:33.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 03:33.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Hello, |
| 03:33.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Thanks for the heads up. The thread has been cleaned up. |
| 03:33.18 | ScytheBlade1 | -The World of Warcraft Community Team |
| 03:33.29 | ScytheBlade1 | And people say that wowreportedpost@blizzard.com doesn't -ever- reply, ha |
| 03:37.53 | Thunder_Child | http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/03/intels-core-i7-extreme-edition-965-overclocked-to-5-5ghz/ |
| 03:41.20 | *** join/#wowuidev vince` (i=vschiu@adsl-99-187-236-197.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:43.09 | Tem | omfg |
| 03:43.15 | Tem | I'm done with pugs for like a week |
| 03:43.26 | Tem | "ZOMFG NEED TANK FOR <instance>" |
| 03:43.33 | Tem | >"I'll tank it for you" |
| 03:43.45 | Tem | "sry I don't like dk tanks" |
| 03:43.58 | Tem | >Grouped with some bad DKs, eh? |
| 03:44.13 | Tem | >I'm a perfectly capable tank. |
| 03:44.15 | Arrowmaster | your server sucks |
| 03:44.23 | Tem | "my guildie sais dks r bad" |
| 03:44.38 | Tem | NEED TANK FOR <instance> |
| 03:45.17 | Tem | *stab* *stab* |
| 03:45.17 | End | I've had mixed results for DK tanks, but that's similar to my results for -all- tanks :P |
| 03:45.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Kirov_ (n=Kirov@c-67-160-8-181.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:46.03 | Tem | then to make it worse, the next group told me I had to be frost to tank |
| 03:46.08 | End | haha |
| 03:46.20 | Tem | so like |
| 03:46.26 | End | all the tanks I've seen are unholy actually |
| 03:46.27 | Tem | that's all I can handle for a while |
| 03:46.33 | End | which is awesome for me because they do the debuff :P |
| 03:46.34 | Tem | unholy is actually better than frost atm |
| 03:47.02 | NeoTron | frost in theory is better mitigation. unholy is better for aoe tanking from the threat PoV.. but I think either spec are fully capable for tanking |
| 03:47.12 | NeoTron | but even Blizzard knows that blood is lacking |
| 03:47.43 | ScytheBlade1 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13275698699&sid=1 |
| 03:47.43 | ScytheBlade1 | WIN |
| 03:48.02 | Tem | Frost doesn't have any mitigation bonuses that a good unholy won't also have |
| 03:48.16 | Tem | frost has an AVOIDANCE advantage |
| 03:49.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Tem: read that thread. It's about DKs. |
| 03:50.04 | Tem | AHAHAHAH |
| 03:50.05 | Tem | awesome |
| 03:50.25 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: :o WIN. |
| 03:50.57 | ScytheBlade1 | So much win |
| 04:16.49 | Amarande | argh. |
| 04:16.54 | Amarande | these particular mobs are highly irritating |
| 04:16.56 | Amarande | are they bugged? |
| 04:17.39 | Amarande | they're all called Servant of foo and in the Blasted Lands, and tend to be near the felguard sentries for the Infernal summoning quest |
| 04:17.45 | Amarande | they get to like ... 1hp and then they stop taking damage from anything |
| 04:17.46 | *** join/#wowuidev orzing (n=orzing@220-132-135-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 04:18.36 | ZorbaTHut | it's a quest |
| 04:18.41 | ZorbaTHut | you have to use an item on them to make them killable |
| 04:18.42 | NightHawkTheSane | .... |
| 04:18.44 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 04:18.44 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 04:18.51 | NightHawkTheSane | you've never even HEARD of the Servents? |
| 04:19.57 | Amarande | Night: I vaguely remember them being something people used to use to skill up weapons |
| 04:20.01 | Tekkub | I never had until the nerf was announced |
| 04:20.10 | Tekkub | I probably fought them at one point though |
| 04:20.13 | Amarande | but I've done extremely little in the Blasted Lands other than get the exploration achievement and of course the dark portal |
| 04:21.05 | Amarande | what I don't know is how to make them die, or if all I can do is run |
| 04:21.15 | NightHawkTheSane | you cannot kill them if you're not on the quest. |
| 04:23.35 | Amarande | ah, that explains it |
| 04:23.51 | Amarande | not that they'd be able to kill me either, since I don't think they can damage me faster than fel armor heals me heh |
| 04:24.54 | Tekkub | there's exremely little TO do in BLands |
| 04:26.39 | Amarande | Tekkub: yeah, even less than in Azshara probably |
| 04:27.02 | Amarande | Azshara only seems like less, I think, because it seems that most Azshara quests are "go all the way out to Azshara and get this and come back" |
| 04:27.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody (n=kody@c-98-210-196-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:27.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody` (n=kody@c-98-210-196-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:27.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 04:28.27 | Tekkub | there's those like 4 "kill these things that have shitty drop rates" repeatables, and like 2 quests in town |
| 04:28.45 | Tekkub | and yet if you try to do them, you'll be in the damn zone for at least a full level >< |
| 04:28.48 | Tem | Amarande, the other half oa Azshara quests are "Go to the other side of the zone and then come back to me" |
| 04:29.19 | Tem | god that zone is aweful |
| 04:29.21 | Tem | awful |
| 04:29.21 | Tekkub | azshara starts off great, it's like, see them ruins right there? go kill shit" |
| 04:29.37 | Tekkub | then you do those two and it degrade into zone-wide ping-pong |
| 04:29.49 | Tem | it wouldn't be so bad if the zone didn't make you take the longest possible path all the time |
| 04:29.52 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 04:30.03 | Tekkub | they don't even send you to the gobbie, you're lucky if you find him |
| 04:30.18 | Tekkub | the other quest requires you to have caught some crap in IF... |
| 04:30.31 | Tem | yeah, the whole zone is epic fail |
| 04:30.35 | Shirik | uh, sorry Cairenn :) |
| 04:30.36 | Tekkub | and turns in at *literally* the farthest BFE part of the zone |
| 04:30.43 | Tem | though I'd like to see if I can solo Azuregos |
| 04:30.45 | Adys | Shirik: he was being spammy |
| 04:30.51 | Shirik | yeah I don't know what that was, looking it up now |
| 04:30.53 | Amarande | heh, I haven't even laid eyes on Azuregos |
| 04:30.57 | Amarande | and I just did Explore Azshara tonight |
| 04:31.01 | Amarande | where the hell does he hang out anyway? |
| 04:31.05 | Tem | EVERYWHERE |
| 04:31.14 | Tem | it takes like 45m to find him |
| 04:31.15 | Tekkub | in my pants |
| 04:31.19 | Adys | Amarande: south east |
| 04:31.23 | Tem | if he's even spawned |
| 04:31.28 | Tem | north too, Adys |
| 04:31.32 | *** join/#wowuidev abyxx (n=asdf@cpe-071-071-200-105.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 04:31.35 | Tem | it's sort of insane |
| 04:31.36 | Adys | errr what? |
| 04:31.39 | Tem | yeah... |
| 04:31.48 | NightHawkTheSane | i've never seen him spawn on the north 'arc' |
| 04:31.48 | Adys | since when does he spawn north? |
| 04:31.50 | Tem | I've fought him in the south and the north |
| 04:31.59 | Tem | waaaaay back in the day |
| 04:32.32 | Adys | http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=6109 |
| 04:32.46 | Thunder_Child | civil war Tem? |
| 04:32.47 | Tem | *headscratch* |
| 04:32.50 | Amarande | didn't see anything in the southeast other than naga |
| 04:33.03 | Tem | Adys, maybe I'm just crazy |
| 04:33.16 | Tem | but I think I remember fighting him in the northern arc |
| 04:33.16 | Adys | Ive never fougth him north |
| 04:33.18 | Amarande | ok, this is really odd now |
| 04:33.22 | Amarande | I just ran into a guild named Offline |
| 04:33.27 | Adys | northern arc theres the elemental invasion boss |
| 04:33.31 | Adys | maybe you're confusing those? |
| 04:33.31 | Amarande | then the next character I encountered in Orgrimmar's named Disconnected |
| 04:33.51 | Adys | Amarande: they're telling you you should log off |
| 04:33.56 | Tem | when I log in and scan the AH immediately, I run into lots of Unknowns for a while |
| 04:35.41 | Amarande | apparently Disconnected is a Champion of the Naaru |
| 04:35.49 | Amarande | that seems odd, usually disconnections result in wipes, rather than titles :) |
| 04:37.00 | Cidan | why is Blizzard restarting the servers so often? |
| 04:40.01 | Thunder_Child | because people are playing on them |
| 04:40.13 | Thunder_Child | if people didnt play on them they wouldnt have to restart |
| 04:40.16 | Thunder_Child | so often |
| 04:43.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Shiibot (n=Shiibot@WoWUIDev/Nospam) |
| 04:43.51 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shiibot] by ChanServ |
| 04:44.02 | NightHawkTheSane | the man has a point |
| 04:47.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Quaiche (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 04:48.55 | Shirik | welp |
| 04:48.59 | Shirik | entire guild seems pissed at me, lol |
| 04:49.08 | ScytheBlade1 | What'd you do? |
| 04:49.24 | Shirik | I missed raid because I slept too long today, and apparently they wiped on kt at 0% |
| 04:49.34 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 04:49.37 | ScytheBlade1 | SUCK LESS SHIRIK |
| 04:51.48 | bleeter | ugh two hours to go |
| 04:51.52 | bleeter | ~emulate bleeter |
| 04:51.52 | purl | rant rant rant waaa MOAR COFFEE <sub>good idea</sub>rant waaa MOAR COFFEE rant rant MOAR COFFEE <blink><h1>terribad idea<h1></blink> rant |
| 04:52.07 | bleeter | HAI SBO & SHIRIK ET AL |
| 04:52.09 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 04:52.16 | ScytheBlade1 | That's a PERFECT discription of bleeter |
| 04:52.20 | ScytheBlade1 | ~info emulate bleeter |
| 04:52.32 | *** join/#wowuidev UltraNurd (n=UltraNur@c-98-216-191-209.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 04:52.36 | Amarande | Shirik: wiping at 0%? |
| 04:52.38 | ScytheBlade1 | ~factinfo emulate bleeter |
| 04:52.38 | purl | emulate bleeter -- last modified 2d 22h 9m 39s ago by bleeter!n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter; it has been requested 19 times, last by bleeter, 46s ago. |
| 04:52.40 | Amarande | that's what we call epic fail |
| 04:52.41 | Amarande | right? |
| 04:52.45 | Shirik | that's what they said! |
| 04:52.51 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: it's not perfect, but it'll do for now |
| 04:53.02 | bleeter | it's certainly better than the 'Baaaaaaa' it previously did |
| 04:53.18 | bleeter | Amarande: nah, it takes class and skill to do that |
| 04:53.38 | bleeter | Amarande: not many good players can achieve a wipe at 0. THough it is encounter dependant. |
| 04:54.03 | bleeter | It's kinda like trying forget how to ride a bicycle |
| 04:55.07 | Thunder_Child | your guild is not the only ones pissed at you Shirik |
| 04:56.36 | Shirik | :( |
| 04:56.42 | Shirik | yes, Cairenn is too |
| 04:56.49 | Cairenn | am not |
| 04:56.56 | Shirik | you said so |
| 04:57.04 | Cairenn | did not |
| 04:57.19 | Shirik | (23:56:10) (@Cairenn) I am so pissed at you right now |
| 04:57.28 | Cairenn | bull |
| 04:57.30 | Amarande | heh, I still remember the one time in H-Mech where we wiped at 1% on capacitus because I did something incredibly fail |
| 04:59.00 | Amarande | positive to the left, negative to the right! |
| 04:59.13 | Amarande | I acquired a debuff called Positive Charge, went to the left ... well ... you can probably guess what I did ... LOL |
| 04:59.54 | |Jelly| | ~hug Cairenn |
| 04:59.55 | purl | ACTION gets a running start and tackle-hugs Cairenn |
| 04:59.59 | bleeter | wiping a raid at 0 is fun, but still wasn't as fun as the old days of 'mistakenly' teleporting out of AQ instead of creating a portal when the raid had pissed me off>< |
| 05:01.56 | Thunder_Child | who do you think i was talking about Shiibot |
| 05:02.00 | Thunder_Child | ....AHHHH |
| 05:02.20 | Thunder_Child | if i put Shiibot on ignore will i still autocomplete it's name? |
| 05:02.34 | NightHawkTheSane | yes |
| 05:02.41 | bleeter | depends on your client |
| 05:05.04 | batrick | man there is this bar down here in albuquerque |
| 05:05.15 | batrick | and my brother and I are convinced God himself cooks the food there |
| 05:05.25 | batrick | because nothing could win that hard |
| 05:05.49 | Thunder_Child | lolcat bbq? |
| 05:07.14 | batrick | do not taint my story with pagan cat gods |
| 05:07.31 | Amarande | yay. I love when the pieces I still need for an exploration achievement are at opposite ends of the zone |
| 05:08.26 | Tekkub | I think I just say the bigest fucking hypocrite ever on my server... |
| 05:08.36 | Tekkub | Loremaster Hateleveling |
| 05:08.36 | bleeter | saw? |
| 05:12.53 | batrick | SHIRIK |
| 05:17.36 | bleeter | hah, I just noticed.. 7AM restarts again. |
| 05:17.40 | bleeter | *for Oceanic realms |
| 05:18.16 | Tekkub | le sigh |
| 05:18.32 | Tekkub | the default UI has 24KiB/s garbage churn now |
| 05:18.36 | Tekkub | *whine* |
| 05:19.17 | Amarande | I remember the days when that was actually a lot of memory |
| 05:19.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-242-180-111.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:19.40 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 05:19.49 | Tekkub | it should still be 0 when idle :P |
| 05:20.51 | bleeter | Tekkub: amuse me. does that churn still happen with ALT+Z (UI hidden)? |
| 05:21.35 | Tekkub | I hate you :P |
| 05:21.42 | UltraNurd | evening all. I'm trying to dynamically create a button and add it to a frame, but it's not showing up. |
| 05:21.52 | UltraNurd | I'm guessing I'm missing some frightfully obvious call |
| 05:21.58 | Tekkub | does blizzy even have any frames not parented to UIParent? |
| 05:22.09 | UltraNurd | (this is in the lua, as I'm going off of a list, not a static button created in the XML) |
| 05:22.38 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 05:22.48 | Tem | Tekkub, a few |
| 05:22.54 | Tem | the map, I think |
| 05:22.58 | bleeter | Tekkub: 'sokay, I hate you too :D |
| 05:23.41 | Tekkub | Tem, then how is the map visible? |
| 05:24.09 | Tem | the hell do you mean? |
| 05:24.22 | Arrowmaster | the nameplates get parented to worldframe |
| 05:24.23 | Tekkub | if it's not parented to UIParent, it'll never render |
| 05:24.39 | Arrowmaster | yes it will |
| 05:24.44 | Tekkub | nameplates are in their own little world.. |
| 05:24.57 | Tem | Tekkub, for such a smart person you sure same some dumb things sometimes |
| 05:25.07 | Tem | =P |
| 05:25.12 | Tekkub | you sure same some too |
| 05:25.15 | Arrowmaster | if its not parented to uiparent it will still work exactly the same except when you do alt-z it will still be shown |
| 05:25.24 | Tem | Frames do not need to have a parent at all to render |
| 05:25.40 | AnduinLothar | it also wont scale with the ui sclae |
| 05:25.44 | Tekkub | mur, I'm thinking anchored |
| 05:25.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-242-180-111.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:25.49 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 05:25.56 | Tekkub | this fucking headache needs to go away |
| 05:25.58 | Tem | yes, you are, Tekkub |
| 05:25.59 | Arrowmaster | no your just confused |
| 05:26.00 | Tem | hehe |
| 05:26.07 | Tekkub | I was saying stupid shit to the githubbers all day too |
| 05:26.48 | Tem | hahaha |
| 05:27.08 | Tekkub | Chris would describe something and I'd be like, couldn't you just do this... |
| 05:27.14 | bleeter | Tekkub: no shit about headache should DIAF... I'm trying to give up the ciggies and the headache's killin' me |
| 05:27.18 | AnduinLothar | can prolly anchor to the world frame too |
| 05:27.22 | Tekkub | "that's what I just said..." |
| 05:27.37 | Tekkub | AnduinLothar, you can |
| 05:28.01 | Amarande | bleeter: just entrust your head to an average raider, they're good at DIAF |
| 05:28.12 | Tekkub | everything's game with the WorldFrame (huh huh) except hiding |
| 05:28.18 | Tekkub | hide it and shit implodes |
| 05:28.45 | bleeter | Tekkub: oh, that kinda thing? yeah drives me bloody insane. see: Pidgin and complete lack of Voice/Video and argument over GStreamer/Speex |
| 05:29.07 | Tekkub | huh? |
| 05:29.10 | bleeter | Amarande: the more I write this submission to AusCERT2009, the more I'm quit |
| 05:29.27 | bleeter | Tekkub: '"that's what I just said..."' |
| 05:29.34 | Tekkub | at least I'm not the only one spewing broken engrish tonight |
| 05:29.40 | bleeter | :D |
| 05:30.56 | bleeter | WANNA GROW UP TO BE A DEBASER! |
| 05:31.52 | Tekkub | defacer? |
| 05:32.09 | NightHawkTheSane | mmm.. pixies |
| 05:32.15 | Tekkub | green laser? |
| 05:32.47 | bleeter | NightHawkTheSane++ |
| 05:33.22 | UltraNurd | so if myButton:GetRect() is returning nil, what does that probably mean I've missed? |
| 05:34.39 | Tekkub | you know, I'm beginning to see how people get scammed online |
| 05:34.47 | Tain | Because they're dumb? |
| 05:34.51 | Tekkub | github's got this free month on a paid plan thing going |
| 05:34.56 | Shirik | batrick? |
| 05:35.01 | Tekkub | and like, at least twice a day, we get an email |
| 05:35.21 | Tekkub | someone signs up, doesn't ask for CC at signup, they realize they want a bigger plan... |
| 05:35.27 | Tekkub | it asks for a CC |
| 05:35.40 | Tekkub | they email support, ask if they'll be charged if they do it |
| 05:35.47 | Tekkub | then they do it, and they get charged |
| 05:36.12 | Tekkub | before I can even reply |
| 05:36.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe04fa00-202.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 05:37.16 | Arrowmaster | you work for github? |
| 05:37.36 | Tekkub | I've been they're support monkey for months! |
| 05:39.00 | Arrowmaster | they pay you in bananas? |
| 05:39.10 | Tekkub | no, tab and mtn dew |
| 05:39.21 | UltraNurd | what about fritos? |
| 05:40.28 | Shirik | This is why he's not right in the brain, Arrowmaster |
| 05:40.32 | Shirik | because he uses git on a daily basis |
| 05:40.47 | Arrowmaster | hey i use git |
| 05:40.57 | Shirik | oh, I'm sorry |
| 05:40.57 | Tekkub | git was just too "hard" for you Shirik! |
| 05:41.01 | Tekkub | *hides* |
| 05:41.10 | Shirik | seriously |
| 05:41.14 | Shirik | how do you come up with a name like "git" |
| 05:41.21 | Shirik | aside from being a redneck |
| 05:41.22 | bleeter | by being Linux Torvalds |
| 05:41.26 | bleeter | doh |
| 05:41.26 | Shirik | yes thank you bleeter >< |
| 05:41.27 | Tekkub | because then you can yell "STUPID GIT"? |
| 05:41.28 | bleeter | *Linus |
| 05:41.41 | Tekkub | or English :P |
| 05:42.05 | Shirik | Linus might be a genius, but there is a fine line between genius and insanity, and I think he flirts with it a lot |
| 05:42.26 | Tekkub | I wouldn't doubt it |
| 05:42.32 | bleeter | once he gets rid of the proprietary code from his kernel, I might then call him a genius |
| 05:42.32 | Arrowmaster | most of the greatest minds do |
| 05:42.42 | Shirik | bleeter :) |
| 05:42.43 | Tekkub | could you stay sane with a legion of linux nerd fanbois? |
| 05:42.45 | bleeter | until then, he's a hypocritical nerd |
| 05:42.58 | bleeter | borderline tool of the corporates |
| 05:44.31 | bleeter | and I should know, I can spot them easy. for I am also a hypocritical nerd. |
| 05:44.36 | bleeter | *an hyp... |
| 05:45.12 | Tekkub | hyppo |
| 05:45.50 | NightHawkTheSane | i think a is appropriate there |
| 05:46.41 | bleeter | Oh how ingenious the centuries of lies |
| 05:47.01 | bleeter | NightHawkTheSane: yeah, it's one of those either/or depending on dialect which is usually from parents than from region |
| 05:47.12 | bleeter | *rather than from region |
| 05:47.43 | bleeter | Everything I’m taught, amounts to nought, ... Whoever I was is now lost. |
| 05:50.54 | bleeter | http://kotaku.com/5102221/nintendo-nerd-wanted-for-bank-robbery |
| 05:54.56 | *** join/#wowuidev orzing (n=orzing@220-132-135-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 05:55.10 | Shirik | I love articles like that bleeter |
| 05:55.19 | Shirik | "Which, amazingly, saw him given a ton of cash before he was on his merry way." |
| 05:55.26 | Shirik | Why the hell do people think those are sentences |
| 05:56.13 | Shirik | sometimes people scare me with how badly they understand the language |
| 05:56.28 | *** join/#wowuidev d87 (n=x@host89-251-107-18.hnet.ru) |
| 05:58.08 | *** join/#wowuidev CrazyMYKL (n=rumors@149.152.112.26) |
| 06:06.46 | Shirik | one of our hunters just managed to pull off 7.2k dps in a fight.. |
| 06:07.00 | Shirik | 57% of the raid damage |
| 06:10.25 | *** join/#wowuidev WoW-Bot (n=WoW-Bot@pool-173-67-40-78.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 06:10.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (n=Thrae@pool-173-67-40-78.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 06:10.56 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 06:10.57 | purl | ~pong |
| 06:11.01 | UltraNurd | so, my stupid question earlier really was stupid. I was using image-style coordinates, positive down, instead of positive up |
| 06:11.03 | Shirik | our server just died I think :( |
| 06:11.34 | bleeter | Shirik: that's because they write in spoken language rather than the written one |
| 06:11.36 | Shirik | that being said, night |
| 06:12.15 | Shirik | bleeter: Then they shouldn't be writing articles :P |
| 06:12.41 | Shirik | Honestly, when someone writes poorly like that I have a hard time "hearing" what they're saying. When I read I generally try to get the person's voice in my head. That sentence above doesn't work at all :) |
| 06:13.03 | batrick | shirik |
| 06:13.05 | batrick | e4 |
| 06:13.07 | Shirik | batrick |
| 06:13.08 | batrick | sup |
| 06:13.11 | Shirik | q7 |
| 06:13.15 | batrick | dont lie |
| 06:13.32 | Shirik | I can't do this right now, I haven't slept in 2 days except for the 2 little hours I just got accidentally |
| 06:13.39 | Shirik | so I'm going to sleep now |
| 06:13.45 | batrick | lol im wasted so we're on even footing |
| 06:13.55 | Shirik | Qxe1++ |
| 06:14.00 | batrick | WAT |
| 06:14.04 | batrick | ok fine again |
| 06:14.05 | batrick | e4 |
| 06:14.10 | Shirik | Qxe2++ |
| 06:14.15 | batrick | GOD DAMNIT |
| 06:14.26 | Thunder_Child | for the love of bob, GO TO SLEEP |
| 06:14.31 | batrick | no u |
| 06:14.55 | Thunder_Child | soon |
| 06:14.57 | batrick | !lua thunder_child_iq > 0 |
| 06:14.57 | batbot | batrick: @ [string "return thunder_child_iq > 0"]:1: attempt to compare number with nil |
| 06:15.00 | bleeter | I think my brain's about to implode |
| 06:15.00 | batrick | ooooooooooooooooooooooo sup |
| 06:15.40 | Thunder_Child | !lua batrick_iq > 0 |
| 06:15.40 | batbot | Thunder_Child: @ [string "return batrick_iq > 0"]:1: attempt to compare number with nil |
| 06:15.46 | Thunder_Child | uh huh |
| 06:15.56 | Thunder_Child | ~fail batrick |
| 06:15.57 | purl | batrick: FAIL! |
| 06:16.07 | bleeter | ~emulate bleeter |
| 06:16.08 | purl | rant rant rant waaa MOAR COFFEE <sub>good idea</sub>rant waaa MOAR COFFEE rant rant MOAR COFFEE <blink><h1>terribad idea<h1></blink> rant |
| 06:16.09 | batrick | thats not nice |
| 06:16.10 | Thrae | Hmmm |
| 06:16.26 | Thunder_Child | because if you were smart you would have set uoir name to something BEFORE you pulled that stunt |
| 06:16.31 | Thunder_Child | your* |
| 06:16.42 | batrick | perhaps |
| 06:17.48 | batrick | why does sudo apt-get install eclipse result in 500MB of crap to DL |
| 06:17.53 | Thrae | batbot !lua batrick_iq > thunder_child_iq |
| 06:17.59 | Thrae | !lua batrick_iq > thunder_child_iq |
| 06:17.59 | batbot | Thrae: > false |
| 06:18.04 | Thunder_Child | lol |
| 06:18.23 | batrick | !lua batrick_iq |
| 06:18.23 | batbot | batrick: > 30 |
| 06:18.30 | batrick | how dar eyou disrespect me like this |
| 06:18.40 | Thunder_Child | *snicker* |
| 06:18.41 | batrick | !lua thunder_child_iq |
| 06:18.41 | batbot | batrick: > 3000 |
| 06:18.46 | Thunder_Child | hahahaha |
| 06:18.46 | batrick | whoa little gnerous are we? |
| 06:19.20 | Thrae | !lua batrick_iq > thunder_child_iq |
| 06:19.20 | batbot | Thrae: > false |
| 06:19.32 | NightHawkTheSane | woo! bronze drake! :D |
| 06:19.33 | Thrae | !lua thunder_child_iq |
| 06:19.33 | batbot | Thrae: > 31 |
| 06:19.35 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-242-180-111.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:19.49 | Thunder_Child | L O L |
| 06:19.50 | batrick | owwwwwwwwned |
| 06:20.26 | batrick | !lua Thrae == "cool" |
| 06:20.26 | batbot | batrick: > false |
| 06:22.38 | Thrae | !lua Does_Batrick_Equal_Cool() |
| 06:22.38 | batbot | Thrae: He's a total wanker. |
| 06:23.02 | batrick | wow I read that as "winner" and almost said thank you |
| 06:23.04 | batrick | lolol |
| 06:23.08 | Thrae | We have a bot rebellion here. |
| 06:23.15 | Thrae | Sorry, your bot is British. |
| 06:23.39 | smcn | WOOT! wowhead has a first aid guide, awesome |
| 06:23.58 | batrick | !lua debug.getinfo(Does_Batrick_Equal_Cool).short_src |
| 06:23.58 | batbot | batrick: > [string "function Does_Batrick_Equal_Cool() return p..."] |
| 06:24.06 | batrick | !lua debug.getinfo(Does_Batrick_Equal_Cool).src |
| 06:24.06 | batbot | batrick: > nil |
| 06:24.12 | batrick | QQ |
| 06:24.36 | Thrae | smcn: Despite Wowhead's amazing qualities, I still think the YMCA is better for life-saving techniques. |
| 06:24.38 | batrick | !lua string.dump (Does_Batrick_Equal_Cool) |
| 06:24.38 | batbot | b0L000function Does_Batrick_Equal_Cool() return print("He's a total wanker.") end0 |
| 06:24.38 | batbot | 000000000000A@0000 |
| 06:24.38 | batbot | 000 |
| 06:24.49 | batrick | that's cool |
| 06:25.07 | Thrae | batrick: Your bot obviously made it himself. |
| 06:25.16 | Thrae | The .src is nil! |
| 06:25.29 | batrick | ya hwatever |
| 06:25.39 | batrick | !lua debug.getinfo(Does_Batrick_Equal_Cool).source |
| 06:25.40 | batbot | batrick: > function Does_Batrick_Equal_Cool() return print("He's a total wanker.") end |
| 06:25.44 | batrick | sup |
| 06:26.58 | Thrae | batbot: Undermine him better. |
| 06:27.39 | batrick | you're just sad you aren't cool |
| 06:27.45 | batrick | batbot said so |
| 06:30.08 | Adys | finally got my FaceMelting Gogs™ |
| 06:33.37 | Wobin | Thrae: So... if someone has a heart attack, you go sing Village People at him? |
| 06:33.44 | Tem | ~ping |
| 06:33.45 | purl | ~pong |
| 06:34.58 | Thrae | Wobin: That's what I was trained for! |
| 06:38.56 | Tem | ~ping |
| 06:38.57 | purl | ~pong |
| 06:38.57 | |Jelly| | Shirik: Did they put a CD on CoH or is my CoH priest just retarded? |
| 06:39.18 | Thrae | Remind me not to hit CTRL+S in a screen session. |
| 06:39.46 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 06:39.46 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 06:39.50 | batrick | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMOW8O3bYNs&fmt=18 |
| 06:39.55 | batrick | that movie is too ironic |
| 06:40.03 | batrick | all his french buddies abandoned him |
| 06:40.14 | Tem | ah, I see |
| 06:40.16 | Tem | my net isn't fine |
| 06:43.13 | *** join/#wowuidev vince` (i=vschiu@adsl-99-187-237-159.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:49.34 | Thunder_Child | *sigh*, there are few things worse than looking for something, staring at it and not see it |
| 06:58.35 | bleeter | Get up! Wake up! Someone's taking you for a ride! Dark Forces! |
| 06:58.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Davey (n=Davey@host81-153-89-85.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:58.50 | Davey | hello |
| 06:59.16 | Davey | does anyone know if it would be possible to report statistics from the statistics tab? |
| 06:59.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 06:59.31 | Davey | like when you click an individual stat, it puts it into the chat bar |
| 06:59.55 | Davey | i mean when you click it, it already pushes the line down as though it should do something, but it doesn't |
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| 07:28.15 | Olorin | could someone please tell me if its possible to implement a way of alt-clicking an item to interact with that item, ie to send the item id to a specific function? |
| 07:29.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
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| 07:39.37 | Amarande | Night :) |
| 07:40.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Quaiche (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
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| 08:24.22 | mikma | http://s.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw21072.jpg |
| 08:26.26 | Elkano | I see at least 3 of my addons in that ss :) |
| 08:26.43 | zenzio | what are we looking at? |
| 08:26.45 | NightHawkTheSane | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/elf_of_doriath9/non-icon%20randomness/its_a_tarp.gif |
| 08:27.01 | NightHawkTheSane | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/brother9/hoff-soap-dispenser.jpg |
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| 08:59.09 | Patrick_P | hi? |
| 08:59.30 | Thunder_Child | hello Patrick_P |
| 09:01.10 | Patrick_P | i found this channel on wowwiki... what is it supposed to be exactly? |
| 09:01.36 | Thunder_Child | mostly the focus of creating addons for wow |
| 09:02.02 | Thunder_Child | however this is rather nebulous and can range rather far out |
| 09:02.53 | Thunder_Child | and at any time there is a 25% focus on the "Cairenn Fan Club" |
| 09:03.04 | Thunder_Child | ~dodge Kalroth |
| 09:03.05 | purl | at the last second thunder_child dodges out of the way of Kalroth's malicious and unprovoked attack. |
| 09:03.07 | Patrick_P | lol |
| 09:03.08 | Kalroth | There's a fan club? |
| 09:03.11 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 09:03.12 | Kalroth | Where do I sign up? |
| 09:03.19 | Thunder_Child | talk to Dolby |
| 09:03.24 | Thunder_Child | he started it i think |
| 09:03.43 | Cairenn | aye |
| 09:03.49 | Kalroth | Are there any special benefits to the fanclub? |
| 09:03.59 | Kalroth | Tshirts? No tshirts? Wet tshirts? |
| 09:04.02 | Thunder_Child | and Cairenn hates him every moment for it as well |
| 09:04.06 | Cairenn | embarrassing the hell out of me :p |
| 09:04.17 | Thunder_Child | Kalroth, some tshirt ideas have been floating around |
| 09:04.27 | Thunder_Child | not wet though |
| 09:04.31 | Cairenn | Thunder_Child: you didn't see him wearing his at 'con? |
| 09:04.46 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn, he was wearing the blue one |
| 09:05.02 | Cairenn | no, he had an actual CFM one on for a bit of time |
| 09:05.10 | Thunder_Child | heh, i missed that |
| 09:05.27 | Thunder_Child | you mean CFC? |
| 09:05.49 | Cairenn | CFM |
| 09:05.56 | Cairenn | Cairenn Fanclub Member |
| 09:06.12 | Thunder_Child | silly when anyone can be a member |
| 09:06.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Quaiche (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 09:06.44 | Patrick_P | well... I'm trying since like 10 hours to find an addon able to set a minimap button with a simple dropdown menu containing Character, social, spellbook, talents... like the buttons on the default wow bar... but I can't find it anywhere... so I thought i could create it... should'nt be so complicated... |
| 09:07.18 | *** join/#wowuidev FtH|Daemona (n=koaschte@i59F61757.versanet.de) |
| 09:07.19 | Patrick_P | bu i don't know where to start... |
| 09:08.45 | Thunder_Child | pil and wowwiki are your 2 bestest friends |
| 09:08.51 | Patrick_P | pil? |
| 09:08.54 | Thunder_Child | ~pil |
| 09:08.54 | purl | Programming in Lua, a book written by the authors of the Lua programming language. The first edition is available free online at http://www.lua.org/pil and covers Lua 5.0. The second edition is available in print from most online bookstores, and covers Lua 5.1. |
| 09:09.07 | Cairenn | ~wowprogramming |
| 09:09.08 | purl | World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons (http://tinyurl.com/5hnxob) a book written by Cladhaire, Cogwheel and Kaelten, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 09:09.16 | Thunder_Child | ... |
| 09:10.11 | Cairenn | ~framexml |
| 09:10.12 | purl | Get the official Blizzard Interface AddOn Kit here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ui/ or view it online at http://wowcompares.com/ |
| 09:10.41 | Thunder_Child | no, the first 2 are still the bestest friends |
| 09:10.52 | Cairenn | didn't say they weren't |
| 09:11.01 | Cairenn | was just providing more resources |
| 09:11.09 | Thunder_Child | -_- |
| 09:11.19 | cog|away | Thunder_Child: h8er |
| 09:11.36 | Thunder_Child | liar...cog|AWAY! |
| 09:12.10 | Thunder_Child | heh, not much better Cog |
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| 09:15.41 | Patrick_P | but don't you guys know an addon able to do it already? |
| 09:16.25 | Thunder_Child | not off hand |
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| 09:16.39 | Patrick_P | well... i don't have enough money to buy books for it... and the tutorials i found on the net aren't so useful... |
| 09:18.58 | Patrick_P | i already know how to do a drop down menu but i don't know how to do the minimap buttons... there's anything about it or a library i could use to do it somewhere? |
| 09:20.29 | Thunder_Child | you could look at an addon that uses an addon button and see how they do it |
| 09:20.30 | Thunder_Child | s/addon b/minimap b/ |
| 09:20.37 | Thunder_Child | a* |
| 09:22.43 | Patrick_P | yeah your right i'm gonna try it thx for the help |
| 09:22.52 | Thunder_Child | np |
| 09:23.29 | Thunder_Child | just dont spread the word, i'm persona non grata around here |
| 09:24.59 | Patrick_P | lol |
| 09:25.36 | Patrick_P | looks nice to write addons tho... what do you think about curseforge... should i use it? |
| 09:25.51 | Thunder_Child | as a hosting site? |
| 09:26.09 | Patrick_P | yeah and somekind of project manager... |
| 09:26.18 | Thunder_Child | i would say curseforge or wowinterface |
| 09:26.22 | Thunder_Child | or both |
| 09:26.26 | Patrick_P | i don't really know the site... i gotta look into it... |
| 09:26.32 | Patrick_P | k |
| 09:26.58 | Arrowmaster | (Patrick_P) well... I'm trying since like 10 hours to find an addon able to set a minimap button with a simple dropdown menu containing Character, social, spellbook, talents... like the buttons on the default wow bar... but I can't find it anywhere... so I thought i could create it... should'nt be so complicated... |
| 09:27.03 | Arrowmaster | fyi that is impossible |
| 09:27.12 | Arrowmaster | you cant open the spellbook from a dropdown menu afaik |
| 09:27.27 | Patrick_P | really? |
| 09:27.52 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, what about auctionerrs pop out of the side thing? |
| 09:28.10 | Arrowmaster | well you could but you would get an action blocked message whenever you clicked a spell in the spellbook |
| 09:28.21 | Arrowmaster | unless theres a different way to do it i dont know about |
| 09:29.11 | Patrick_P | i only want the drop down menu to open the spellbook like a link... not to open it in the dropdown frame |
| 09:29.29 | Arrowmaster | thats what i mean |
| 09:29.41 | Patrick_P | what i want is a replacement to the menu button bar |
| 09:29.49 | Patrick_P | there's no ways to do it? |
| 09:29.56 | Patrick_P | or to skin it |
| 09:30.17 | Arrowmaster | you can |
| 09:32.27 | Patrick_P | hmmmk lol |
| 09:33.31 | Arrowmaster | actually try '/run ToggleSpellBook()' and see if you can cast anything from the spell book once it opens |
| 09:34.36 | Patrick_P | cuz the bar i get from bartender or dominos is really ugly and unskinnable |
| 09:34.38 | Arrowmaster | i know you couldnt do it in the past but im not sure it could be possible now |
| 09:34.40 | Patrick_P | yeah i can |
| 09:34.56 | Arrowmaster | ah ok then |
| 09:34.58 | Patrick_P | but it open the glyph panel |
| 09:35.04 | Patrick_P | every times |
| 09:35.13 | Arrowmaster | heh |
| 09:35.27 | Patrick_P | and maybe i can't in combat tho... |
| 09:35.32 | Arrowmaster | ToggleSpellBook(BOOKTYPE_SPELL) |
| 09:36.31 | Patrick_P | omfg... u make me think... |
| 09:36.39 | Patrick_P | i could only make macros... |
| 09:37.21 | Patrick_P | on a action bar... and i won't need any addons... |
| 09:37.37 | Patrick_P | well if i can make a macro to open every panes... |
| 09:37.59 | Arrowmaster | yeah thats easy |
| 09:38.42 | Patrick_P | well... if i type ToggleSpellBook(BOOKTYPE_SPELL) i can't cast a spell... |
| 09:38.55 | Arrowmaster | it errors? |
| 09:39.00 | Patrick_P | but by passing from glyph to spells i can... |
| 09:39.06 | Patrick_P | yup u were right |
| 09:39.48 | Patrick_P | there's no other way i could call it in a macro to make it work? |
| 09:39.59 | Arrowmaster | in a macro you can |
| 09:40.16 | Arrowmaster | just '/click SpellbookMicroButton' |
| 09:42.32 | Patrick_P | woot thx god i won't need to learn wow programming tonight... |
| 09:42.38 | Patrick_P | thx a lot |
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| 09:52.13 | Olorin | Is there a way in LUA to get the name of the function another was called from? |
| 09:52.19 | krka | Olorin: You shouldn't capitalize Lua like that. ;-) |
| 09:52.59 | Arrowmaster | sorta, but its not really good and probably not reliable |
| 09:53.00 | Olorin | lol bite me |
| 09:53.39 | Olorin | ok thanks arrow.. i guess ill have to pass it as an arg |
| 09:54.26 | krka | it's almost always a sign of bad design if you need to pass in the caller function |
| 09:56.11 | Arrowmaster | unless its a hook or something i guess |
| 09:56.19 | Olorin | i just wanted to make a quick debug message function such as bcsDebug to deal with the default frame blaah blah and affix Debug: with name of function to the message, mostly to keep my code from being messy with that stuff |
| 10:01.12 | krka | Olorin: for debug messages i think you can use debug.stacktrace() |
| 10:02.52 | krka | http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-debug.traceback |
| 10:03.00 | Olorin | thanks Krka, ill take a peek at that |
| 10:03.29 | krka | you'll have to do some clever string matching to get the function name though i think |
| 10:04.14 | Olorin | we'll see ill give it a go :) |
| 10:16.25 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/what_makes_woman_happy.jpg |
| 10:16.50 | Cairenn | lol |
| 10:18.37 | krka | oooh, a clever twist after having read the question! |
| 10:22.37 | mikma | well what the heck, here you go http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw5oJoUYTb8 |
| 10:24.33 | Patrick_P | hey anyone know if there's a way to #show a button texture in a macro instead of a spel or an item? i'm using #show item:44210 /click SpellbookMicroButton but it's darkened cuz i don't have the item in my bags... |
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| 10:43.58 | mikma | wobin: ping! |
| 10:45.57 | Olorin | krka how do you load the lua library debug? |
| 10:48.34 | Olorin | nm just read its provided by wow api with same function names |
| 10:48.54 | Wobin | mikma: ack |
| 10:50.58 | Patrick_P | i'm reeading a cogwheel's macro guide and he say we can use cusom macro icons by placing a texture file in the icon folder but he don't say how we call it in the macro... |
| 10:51.06 | Olorin | well not quite same, called debugstack() |
| 10:51.08 | Patrick_P | don't think it's really possible tho... |
| 10:51.18 | mikma | wobin: /cast Death Grip; /cast Gnaw = <3 :D |
| 10:52.38 | Wobin | hehe |
| 10:53.13 | Tem | mikma, bind gnaw as a seperate key |
| 10:53.24 | Tem | it's horrendously useful |
| 10:53.40 | Tem | it effectively gives you spellcasting interrupts |
| 10:53.56 | Tem | s/you spe/you 4 spe/ |
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| 12:28.29 | mikma | damn, i need a mountaddon to remind me i can use flying mount hehe |
| 12:28.42 | Wobin | http://myndflame.gameriot.com/videos/Wrath-of-a-Couch-Potato |
| 12:28.56 | Torhal_ | mikma: Squire works well, and is rather small |
| 12:29.16 | Wobin | Tem: grip, brain freeze, strangulate and gnaw? |
| 12:29.28 | Wobin | grip is a little situational though |
| 12:32.42 | mikma | torhal: what's that? |
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| 13:06.36 | Fisker- | wtf Wobin |
| 13:06.40 | Fisker- | Tauren Transformers :D |
| 13:06.53 | Wobin | ^^ |
| 13:07.02 | Wobin | Taurens In Disguise! |
| 13:07.22 | Wobin | I thought the logo was especially inspired =) |
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| 13:33.41 | Patrick_P | hi |
| 13:36.01 | Patrick_P | anyone can figure out how i could open my quest log from a macro? the /script ToggleQuestLog(); don't work and /script if (QuestLogFrame:IsVisible()) then QuestLogFrame:Hide(); else QuestLogFrame:Show(); end make the window stack with others windows... |
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| 13:42.43 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:46.08 | mikma | patrick_p: /script ToggleFrame(QuestLogFrame) |
| 13:47.47 | Patrick_P | thx:) |
| 13:50.25 | Patrick_P | ther's a list somewhere of the frames i can toggle this way? still can find how to toggle the honor panel... that's the last one i need to do... |
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| 13:52.36 | Patrick_P | nvm i got it thx a lot guys for the help everything's working fine:) |
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| 14:42.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Rageon (i=ibumetin@71-119.lerstenen.t3.se) |
| 14:42.52 | Rageon | hello guys |
| 14:43.58 | Rageon | jsut a quick one, i've just started tring to learn Visal C# with a .net developement library, and was wondering if any of it applies to developing wow addons, or where i can look for some reasources on where to get started |
| 14:44.11 | mikma | rageon: internet |
| 14:44.52 | Rageon | that's prittey obvious, but the question is what lanuage is wow mods written in, the .lua fileformat seems to be mostly XML |
| 14:44.56 | Rageon | and that can be anything realy |
| 14:44.58 | jnwhiteh | Rageon: there's a book that has been written about writing wow addons, you may find it useful |
| 14:45.08 | mikma | oh, the book |
| 14:45.11 | Rageon | ah, something like "hacking WoW" or similar |
| 14:45.12 | mikma | i wonder who wrote it |
| 14:45.14 | jnwhiteh | Lua is a programming language.. and its used to define the behavior of an addon |
| 14:45.17 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 14:45.18 | jnwhiteh | ~wowprogramming |
| 14:45.19 | purl | World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons (http://tinyurl.com/5hnxob) a book written by Cladhaire, Cogwheel and Kaelten, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 14:45.23 | jnwhiteh | I wrote it, smartass mikma ;-) |
| 14:45.28 | mikma | lulz |
| 14:45.37 | Rageon | jnwhiteh: hehe sneaky but mcuh appriciated |
| 14:45.38 | jnwhiteh | XML is just used to define frames in a way that can be validated against a schema |
| 14:45.49 | jnwhiteh | not really sneaky O.o |
| 14:45.55 | jnwhiteh | there's a reason we wrote it, and this is it |
| 14:46.02 | jnwhiteh | you dont have to buy it, but its a resource and it is available |
| 14:46.04 | Lopeppeppy | Rageon, it's a pretty fine book, we all recommend it, or purl wouldn't know about it. :) |
| 14:46.05 | Rageon | now how to get the manager to sign off on buying that book ;) |
| 14:46.10 | jnwhiteh | and will answer most if not all of your questions |
| 14:46.26 | Kalroth | Rageon: Just get their personal autograph and it's a sure sell |
| 14:46.36 | abyx | but but but... it costs money |
| 14:46.46 | Lopeppeppy | I'm holding out for a **certain** autograph that I couldn't get at Blizcon. |
| 14:46.51 | jnwhiteh | abyx: so does generating good material in the first place |
| 14:46.57 | Kalroth | I'm sorry, loppy! |
| 14:46.58 | jnwhiteh | Lopeppeppy: i wont be back to NY until August =/ |
| 14:47.11 | Lopeppeppy | I know, but I'm totally hosting a party for you when you get here! |
| 14:47.24 | Cairenn | put it to you this way - when I was on my tour at BlizzHQ this BlizzCon, I saw numerous copies of it on multiple desks |
| 14:47.32 | Lopeppeppy | I didn't lug the book to Blizcon anyway, it would have taken up about 1/3 of the luggage space I traveled with. :) |
| 14:47.40 | Cairenn | *Blizzard employees* use it |
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| 14:47.48 | mikma | rageon: manager == wife? |
| 14:47.58 | Kalroth | I'd suggest writing the autograph on paper and sending it to Lopeppeppy. But knowing Lopeppeppy it isn't paper she wants the autograph written on. :) |
| 14:48.59 | Lopeppeppy | Kalroth! |
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| 14:49.14 | Lopeppeppy | I've never been inappropriate in all my gnomish life, you wicked monkey! |
| 14:49.22 | Kalroth | zug zug |
| 14:49.25 | mikma | i'd take the autograph to left buttcheek, but not likely i need the autograph so... i'll let lopeppeppy take it instead! |
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| 14:50.10 | Kraps | i'm reading about the 18 hour ffxi boss fight. sick |
| 14:50.10 | Kalroth | mikma: jnwhiteh should be proud, I bet it's not many Lua book authors that gets to autograph buttcheeks of their male fans. |
| 14:50.12 | Lopeppeppy | I get my autographs on the credits page, kthx. *rolls eyes* You guys are awful. |
| 14:50.40 | Kalroth | Lopeppeppy: It's a guy thing! |
| 14:50.42 | mikma | serves you right for hanging around us |
| 14:51.15 | Kraps | wtf is wrong with the people at SE? |
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| 14:56.39 | jnwhiteh | SE? |
| 14:57.52 | Kraps | square enix |
| 14:57.59 | Cairenn|afk | square enix is |
| 14:58.01 | Cairenn|afk | lol |
| 14:58.01 | jnwhiteh | 2ah ok |
| 14:58.11 | Cairenn|afk | that's what I was about to say |
| 14:58.52 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@195.5.240.32) |
| 14:58.58 | abyx | i have a table, foo, and i'm doing for i,v in ipairs(foo) do print(i,v) end but it prints nothing, and i know for a fact that the table isn't empty |
| 14:59.01 | abyx | why would this happen? |
| 14:59.38 | cbreak | because the table is empty as far as the table notation is concerned? |
| 14:59.43 | Kraps | then there are the idiots "well AV in wow can take that long", AV just requires a queue and no one will miss you if you leave |
| 15:00.03 | Kalroth | abyx: you got nil values? |
| 15:00.09 | abyx | nothing is printed |
| 15:00.17 | cbreak | yes, you said that |
| 15:00.53 | cbreak | it doesn't print anything since the content of field 1 is nil (most likely) |
| 15:01.25 | abyx | is there anyway to... ignore the nil values? |
| 15:01.39 | Pneumatus | pairs() |
| 15:01.42 | cbreak | no. ipairs is designed to STOP at nil values |
| 15:02.08 | abyx | thank you Pneumatus |
| 15:02.33 | cbreak | pairs won't do what you want. maybe. |
| 15:02.50 | cbreak | pairs will not ignore the hash-table portion |
| 15:03.00 | cbreak | pairs will not iterate in a particular order |
| 15:03.16 | cbreak | those are probably the main reasons you chose ipairs in the first place |
| 15:03.38 | Kalroth | I'm guessing it was only because ipairs() was used in the code he copy'pasted from :P |
| 15:03.49 | Pneumatus | i guessed the same |
| 15:03.51 | cbreak | :/ |
| 15:03.59 | cbreak | people should really read the docs... |
| 15:04.34 | Kalroth | documentation is for weaklings and google is for wankers, real men ask on irc |
| 15:04.42 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:04.48 | abyx | what Kalroth said |
| 15:06.18 | *** join/#wowuidev [SW]Dodge (n=Miranda@p508CE432.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:07.35 | abyx | wtb +=, -=, *=, /= in lua |
| 15:08.02 | haste | use a power patch |
| 15:10.02 | Rageon | mikma: no manager as in IT-manager :( |
| 15:10.29 | mikma | it-manager that supports coding wow-addons? |
| 15:12.58 | mikma | wobwork: hlep |
| 15:13.04 | Rageon | mikma: well he encourages me "delving into other areas" on my down time |
| 15:13.09 | Rageon | like C# |
| 15:13.27 | Rageon | and possibly .lua |
| 15:13.34 | Rageon | jsut need to find a buisiness application for it |
| 15:13.42 | Rageon | altough the CEO of the company is a Wow-head |
| 15:15.17 | Rageon | but the book wasent expensive so will probably jsut buy it myself, anyone know of a uk reseller? |
| 15:15.23 | Rageon | i guess amazon is a good bet |
| 15:15.29 | jnwhiteh | amazon sells it, yeah |
| 15:15.33 | jnwhiteh | any of the major chains do really |
| 15:15.42 | jnwhiteh | well if he needs convincing of Lua, 11 millions users use it in their game |
| 15:15.48 | jnwhiteh | and over 70% of adobe lightroom is written in Lua |
| 15:15.52 | jnwhiteh | etc. ) |
| 15:15.55 | jnwhiteh | hehe |
| 15:16.02 | jnwhiteh | lots of room to make a case for learning new technology |
| 15:16.09 | Rageon | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:16.22 | Rageon | ah adobe |
| 15:16.43 | Rageon | that will make sales, marcetign and advertisement go nutters with happy, awsome point there |
| 15:17.08 | Rageon | marketing* even |
| 15:17.08 | jnwhiteh | I exaggerated |
| 15:17.09 | jnwhiteh | 40% |
| 15:17.10 | jnwhiteh | http://www.sqlabs.net/blog/2006/01/adobe-lightroom-and-lua.html |
| 15:17.44 | Rageon | roger roger |
| 15:18.10 | cbreak | lua is the smallest, most light weight and portable embedded scripting language I've found |
| 15:18.22 | cbreak | the C/C++ api is very simple, stable and powerful |
| 15:18.31 | Rageon | sounds cool |
| 15:18.41 | Rageon | i hope all i learn about C# isent wasted |
| 15:18.56 | cbreak | it's MS tech |
| 15:18.59 | cbreak | so yes, wasted... :D |
| 15:19.17 | Rageon | seeing as when i am coding c# a simple witch in the developement enviroment let's me swap between languages with jsut a bit of syntax cahgnes |
| 15:19.21 | cbreak | but languages are not important anyway, a good programmer can use anything :) |
| 15:19.34 | jnwhiteh | word to that |
| 15:19.43 | Rageon | but yeah i knwo what your saying VS gives you to much help so you sort of miss out on alot of the actual basis of the programing language |
| 15:20.04 | cbreak | the basis are the algorithms, the structure of the code |
| 15:20.30 | cbreak | a = b + a or a += b is irrelevant outside the actual implementation |
| 15:20.56 | Rageon | exactly so aslong as you remember your maths, and can actualy read what a pcie of code says, translating it to another language is just retelling it |
| 15:21.51 | krka | pciexpress of code? |
| 15:23.01 | Nom- | Except for the tools... |
| 15:23.34 | Nom- | Moving from Java to Perl, for instance, is a nightmare, because all the stuff you take for granted in Java doesn't exist in Perl, or the implementations are so different that you have to rewrite |
| 15:24.20 | krka | no, that's because perl is crap |
| 15:24.23 | Rageon | havent touched either realy |
| 15:24.47 | Nom- | You have the same problem going from, say, Java to Ruby or (shudder) PHP |
| 15:24.53 | krka | the more languages you learn, the more you get to appreciate the differences of languages, and which to avoid if possible |
| 15:24.57 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 15:24.57 | krka | such as perl and php |
| 15:25.50 | Nom- | Perl is fine as long as you don't try and do anything serious with it |
| 15:26.21 | Nom- | Some of the best code in history was written on the command line using perl -e :P |
| 15:32.59 | cbreak | some of the best code in history was written with a pencil on paper :) |
| 15:33.27 | Lopeppeppy | Rocks on rocks! |
| 15:33.29 | Lopeppeppy | Abacus! |
| 15:38.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 15:44.05 | Kraps | question: i think i did pretty much all the quests in grizzly hills, but i'm a dozen away from the achievement. how do i know if there are any more? |
| 15:47.22 | Lopeppeppy | Turn on searching for low level quests. Go to Thotbott or wowhead and get quest lists by zone. |
| 15:47.53 | cbreak | there are enough anyway, at least for alliance, since I got the achievement |
| 15:48.46 | Kraps | i did skip the fish catching quest for the bear |
| 15:50.06 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 15:50.06 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:50.38 | Lopeppeppy | That shouldn't be a 13 line chain though. |
| 15:51.35 | Kraps | Lopeppeppy: the thing about quest lists is that i dont remember the names of all the ones i did already, yknow? |
| 15:51.49 | cbreak | got a bird yet? |
| 15:52.30 | Kraps | flying horse |
| 15:52.35 | Lopeppeppy | check the quests list, make a list of NPCs to go talk to. Talk to them, and see who still has a quest for you. If they have no quest, you've obviously done it. |
| 15:52.35 | Kraps | slow |
| 15:52.46 | Kraps | mmm |
| 15:52.51 | Kraps | ok thanks |
| 15:54.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-145-237-190.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:55.02 | *** join/#wowuidev [dRaCo] (n=drc@brsg-4dbb7c6a.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:55.23 | cbreak | or you can fly over them |
| 15:55.32 | cbreak | if you enable the track-quests tracking |
| 15:57.06 | Trixer | I suprised to find WoW has many mp3 player addons |
| 15:57.26 | Trixer | none of them are super great cause of WoWs limitations but its still pretty nice to have one! |
| 15:58.30 | [dRaCo] | or you could just use winamp and a multimedia keyboard |
| 15:58.46 | cbreak | or use iTunes |
| 15:58.48 | Trixer | I like being able to see the songs while im playing and stuff |
| 15:58.54 | Hirsute | I've never found one that worked well enough for me to bother with. |
| 15:58.58 | [dRaCo] | *hugs his G15* |
| 15:59.12 | Hirsute | And for some reason, my multimedia keyboard doesn't like to control media players while the focus is on WoW. |
| 15:59.20 | Trixer | Im using one called MusicPlayer I think.. the only annoying thing is that you have to move the songs to wows folder and generate a play list |
| 15:59.24 | Trixer | but ingame wise it works good |
| 15:59.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:59.43 | Hunter85 | got some problems with Strings. Trying to find index of first space " " in lua |
| 15:59.45 | Lopeppeppy | Most of the mp3 addons are the same way, Trixer. If WoW doesn't know about them when the game starts, it can't use them. |
| 16:00.07 | Hunter85 | problem is that string.find("hello there", " ") returns 2 int and not 1.. |
| 16:00.55 | [dRaCo] | ~pil |
| 16:00.55 | purl | Programming in Lua, a book written by the authors of the Lua programming language. The first edition is available free online at http://www.lua.org/pil and covers Lua 5.0. The second edition is available in print from most online bookstores, and covers Lua 5.1. |
| 16:00.55 | Trixer | Yeah Lope, I understand that... and it cant access any files outside of the WoW directory.. but I was wondering if you made a "sim link" or whatever to your music folder from inside the wow directory if that would work? Maybe? |
| 16:01.29 | Shirik | anyone here have Windows XP? |
| 16:01.32 | Lopeppeppy | Trixer, maybe, but I think that the whole sandbox idea interferes, and to make more legitimate addon people just choose to follow the rules strictly. |
| 16:01.35 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, I still do. |
| 16:01.39 | Trixer | I do Shirik |
| 16:01.40 | Shirik | Can you do me a favor? |
| 16:01.41 | Hunter85 | will check, ty |
| 16:01.47 | cbreak | why is that a problem Hunter85? |
| 16:01.51 | Rageon | Shirik: yes alot of ppl havewindows xp what about it? |
| 16:01.58 | Shirik | go to start->run type certmgr.msc and hit enter and see if certificate manager opens? |
| 16:01.59 | Trixer | Depends on the favor Shirik |
| 16:02.08 | Trixer | sure one sec |
| 16:02.13 | [dRaCo] | Hunter85: "When find finds its pattern, it returns two values: the index where the match begins and the index where the match ends." |
| 16:02.33 | [dRaCo] | anything else, check pil first |
| 16:02.45 | [dRaCo] | and yes, that's a polite way of saying RTFM ;P |
| 16:02.47 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik: yes, it opens. |
| 16:02.49 | Rageon | Trixer: download winamp, activate global hotkeys that sohuld do it |
| 16:02.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-41-67.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:02.54 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 16:02.56 | Shirik | ok now can you just verify that this menu option still exists? |
| 16:03.17 | Rageon | that binds itself to most standard media keys, and if it diesent work you use ctrl,alt and page up/down for song skipp e.t.c |
| 16:03.29 | Shirik | Click on "personal" then go to menu bar and hit "actions->all tasks->advanced->create custom request" |
| 16:03.34 | Shirik | is that still there? |
| 16:03.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 16:04.05 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, there is no Advanced under Actions there. |
| 16:04.17 | Shirik | is there any "create custom request"? |
| 16:04.31 | Rageon | Lopeppeppy: did you go to all tasks first? |
| 16:04.37 | Lopeppeppy | Find Certificates, Request New Certificate, Import. |
| 16:04.46 | Shirik | ah, that's it, request new certificate |
| 16:04.50 | Shirik | ok thanks :) |
| 16:04.53 | Trixer | Rageon: I dont want to do that, I want to see the various songs and what not. I am not looking to run an mp3 player in the background haha. |
| 16:04.55 | Lopeppeppy | There you go, Reuqest. :) |
| 16:05.57 | Trixer | mmm, so I get to write a phone menu system for skype today using its SDK, which i might add is pretty nice! |
| 16:07.22 | Rageon | Trixer: ok that's what it soundedl ike you where trying to do |
| 16:08.10 | Trixer | Rageon: Naa, I was just commenting about how I found a WoW Mp3 player thats pretty kewl. I just wish it wasnt limited so. |
| 16:08.21 | Rageon | you can probably use the global hotkeys plugin for ideas on how to implement that function into it |
| 16:08.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@78.151.165.116) |
| 16:09.10 | Rageon | but like someone said i remember GTA3 being able to do the same thign, so if it reads playlsit files you can jsut put the playlist in your wow folder and it should go find the mp3 fiels where they are actualy stored |
| 16:09.15 | Rageon | if it has playlist support |
| 16:09.39 | Trixer | Well, what really needs to happen is someone like cursed with their client and sense they are trusted, needs to add a plugin feature so that plugins to the cursed client can be writen to do things that normal wow addons cant.. for instance when cursed sees that wow is starting up, it could create the play lists for you or whatever lol |
| 16:10.13 | Lopeppeppy | Trixer. |
| 16:10.21 | Lopeppeppy | Addons cannot do what addons cannot do. |
| 16:10.27 | Rageon | yeah or if innerspace wasent grounds for instant ban |
| 16:10.29 | Rageon | you could use that |
| 16:10.47 | Lopeppeppy | Instant ban is not something to take lightly, and nothing that a good site like Curse would risk their rep on. |
| 16:10.50 | Trixer | Well all these mp3 players come with programs to generate your play lists... |
| 16:11.10 | Rageon | ofc not Lopeppeppy that's why i said "if not" |
| 16:11.28 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, you urn those once outside of WoW. They don't make any attempt to talk to WoW, react to it, or even really want to know it exists. That way, everyone is happy. That's what a sandbox **is**. |
| 16:11.34 | Trixer | Which for someone who dosnt even know what a C: drive is can be annoying. I was just saying a plugin for the cursed client could make generating the play lists easier... or could be used for like logging data to a database with out the need of the user manually uploading files and what not |
| 16:11.38 | Hunter85 | ah, back from pil and the String problem. I understood that string.find returns start and end index. But I dont understand how I get only start or only end index and no tutorial seems to take it up |
| 16:11.49 | Trixer | Ahh ok Lope |
| 16:12.25 | Trixer | So wait, explain this instant ban thing.. can i get banned for using this mp3 player thing to generate the playlists? |
| 16:12.51 | Rageon | Trixer: no no innerspace is like a whole script engine that runs wow in it's API, it's mainly used for botting |
| 16:12.55 | Rageon | so no you should be fine Trixer |
| 16:12.59 | Hunter85 | first = string.find("my string", " ") <- is 2 int :8 |
| 16:13.04 | Rageon | innerspace is qute intrusive it can practicly play the game for you |
| 16:13.20 | Lopeppeppy | Which is why it's on the do not do list. :) |
| 16:13.36 | Rageon | wörd |
| 16:13.50 | Lopeppeppy | Trixer, you can feel comfortable using any addon gotten from one of the reputable sites. Curse, WoWInterface, Ace... They are legitimate addons, and using them is fine. |
| 16:14.16 | Rageon | it's just that someitmes ppl call bots and other hacks addons |
| 16:14.21 | Rageon | hence the confussion |
| 16:14.25 | Trixer | Ahh ok |
| 16:14.33 | Trixer | Yeah i dont want anything to play the game for me. |
| 16:14.36 | Lopeppeppy | To be sneaky, the bastiches. Just stick with reputable sites, and you're fine. |
| 16:14.42 | Hunter85 | cant find anywhere they loop throw a String, is this possible maybe? |
| 16:16.44 | [dRaCo] | Hunter85: start, end = string.find("my string", " ") |
| 16:17.24 | Hunter85 | ah, thanks! :D |
| 16:19.30 | Shirik | Is there any standard documentation on CTRT's XML format? |
| 16:19.47 | Trixer | I pretty much only used curse.. I really like their client that updates and installs the mods for you |
| 16:19.49 | Trixer | it makes life easy |
| 16:25.35 | Trixer | ok so im looking at two digital cameras the Nikon CoolPix l18 and the Kodak easy share C813. They are both pretty much under a hundred dollars and 8 mega pixals |
| 16:25.53 | [dRaCo] | pixels aren't everything |
| 16:25.53 | cbreak | you should not rely on the pixel count |
| 16:25.57 | Trixer | I have used the nikon before and enjoy it, but I have also heard alot of good things about the easy share |
| 16:26.05 | cbreak | the optics are very important in a camera |
| 16:26.17 | Trixer | Well thats why im asking.. I dont really know much about them. |
| 16:26.26 | [dRaCo] | last I heard, anything above 5 mega is enough for normal pictures |
| 16:26.47 | cbreak | my sis has a 12 mega pixel dslr |
| 16:26.49 | Trixer | Well I really just want to know whats teh better camera, I threw in the mega pixals on them because thats all I Really know |
| 16:26.53 | Lopeppeppy | Digital or optical zoom on the two models? |
| 16:27.20 | cbreak | digital zoom = no zoom. :) |
| 16:27.20 | Trixer | 3x optical on the easy share 5x digital one sec for the coolpix |
| 16:27.20 | Trixer | http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10251133 |
| 16:27.21 | Trixer | link to the kodak |
| 16:27.22 | Lopeppeppy | That's what I choose by, optical zoom is sooooo much better, digital is a lie. |
| 16:27.22 | [dRaCo] | optical zoom is important, anti-shake is nice to have, sensor size is very important |
| 16:27.28 | Trixer | http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8828590 |
| 16:27.36 | Trixer | link to the nikon |
| 16:27.56 | cbreak | what I would ask for is that they can export raws |
| 16:27.59 | cbreak | or at least uncompressed |
| 16:28.01 | Shirik | Digital camers are teh sux |
| 16:28.02 | Shirik | go with film! |
| 16:28.20 | Trixer | Dude.. I just want something to dick around with and take pictures of friends doing funny shit |
| 16:28.31 | Trixer | and you know..tell the girlfriend its the off light.. |
| 16:28.41 | cbreak | do they have an optical viewfinder? |
| 16:28.46 | [dRaCo] | if he doesn't know what's important for a digital camera, he doesn't care about raw files :> |
| 16:29.05 | Shirik | heh |
| 16:29.24 | Shirik | if he just wants "something to dick around with" then he wants a PAS camera, which won't have RAW support :) |
| 16:29.25 | Trixer | cbreak whats an optical viewfinder? |
| 16:29.42 | cbreak | can you use it without the battery life sucking lcd? |
| 16:29.49 | Trixer | ahh |
| 16:29.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Corr-work (n=Corr-wor@adsl-75-17-199-112.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:29.56 | Trixer | the coolpix no |
| 16:30.05 | Trixer | no to both |
| 16:30.17 | cbreak | it usually is a hole to look through, or a set of mirrors/prismas that redirect the picture |
| 16:30.18 | cbreak | :( |
| 16:30.28 | Corr-work | i always wondered what the topic means when it says CIA bots reporting. |
| 16:30.29 | Trixer | yeah its no to both |
| 16:30.37 | Trixer | I like the coolpix cause its got a much bigger lcd then other cameras... |
| 16:30.37 | Shirik | go to #WoWUIDev-commits and find out |
| 16:30.50 | [dRaCo] | I'd go with the Easy Share if it's the one with optical zoom |
| 16:30.54 | Corr-work | is #wowuidev a hotbed of terrorist activity? |
| 16:30.56 | [dRaCo] | digital zoom is worthless |
| 16:31.00 | cbreak | they both seem to have optical zoom |
| 16:31.06 | Shirik | http://www.cia.vc |
| 16:31.14 | Shirik | Digital zoom isn't entirely worthless |
| 16:31.21 | Shirik | however, it does mean very little |
| 16:31.32 | Trixer | dRaCo I have heard that and I believe they both have optical zoom |
| 16:31.35 | cbreak | photoshop can do digital zoom :) |
| 16:31.43 | Corr-work | digital zoom just means it just takes a high quality picture and crops off the sides |
| 16:31.45 | Shirik | No it can't cbreak, there is a slight but important difference |
| 16:31.53 | cbreak | raw ftw! :) |
| 16:31.58 | Corr-work | as far as i can tell. |
| 16:32.07 | Trixer | I think Im going to go with the coolpix |
| 16:32.12 | Trixer | I got one right next to me and I really like it |
| 16:32.18 | Shirik | Let us assume the case where you want to take a shot of a portion of the empire state building with the sun behind it |
| 16:32.18 | cbreak | (why do both have ugly colors?) |
| 16:32.34 | Trixer | This ones black |
| 16:32.35 | Shirik | You need to zoom in to actually get that shot, otherwise the camera will meter using the sun as the hot spot |
| 16:32.45 | Trixer | wait no its not its dark blue lol |
| 16:32.46 | Shirik | Otherwise you'll get a black picture with the sun |
| 16:32.56 | Corr-work | now that's an interesting point, Shirik |
| 16:32.58 | Shirik | Digital zoom will correct this because the camera will do the metering after zoom, not before zoom |
| 16:32.59 | cbreak | depends |
| 16:33.10 | cbreak | you can set the light sensor point to somewhere |
| 16:33.17 | cbreak | instead of using picture averaging |
| 16:33.24 | cbreak | or manual control. |
| 16:33.28 | cbreak | well, probably not with those cameras |
| 16:33.33 | Shirik | I seriously doubt the kind of camera he wants can't do spot metering |
| 16:33.38 | Shirik | can* |
| 16:33.49 | Trixer | wow |
| 16:33.51 | Trixer | seriously... |
| 16:34.01 | Trixer | all I want is a POS to take pictures of my friends doing stupid stuf |
| 16:34.05 | Shirik | exactly :) |
| 16:34.12 | Corr-work | i have a simple little camera from a bunch of years ago. i think it supports like 3mp. |
| 16:34.19 | Trixer | and maybe print them out and use them for blackmail later on in life |
| 16:34.20 | Shirik | and the official term is PAS not POS, heh :) |
| 16:34.32 | Trixer | ahh ok Shirik! |
| 16:34.34 | Corr-work | it's not great in low light, but it's pretty usable otherwise |
| 16:34.40 | Hirsute | Unless, he means Piece of ... |
| 16:34.43 | Trixer | I did |
| 16:34.49 | Trixer | whats PAS mean? |
| 16:34.50 | Shirik | I know Hirsute :P |
| 16:34.53 | Shirik | point-and-shoot |
| 16:35.01 | Trixer | ohh |
| 16:35.03 | Trixer | yeah ok a PAS |
| 16:35.21 | Trixer | I dont want it to weigh like 50 lbs and have a lense on it the size of my arm lol |
| 16:35.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 16:35.38 | Hirsute | <--Uses a Digital Rebel. It's fun, when the battery is behaving. |
| 16:35.39 | Trixer | Im not trying to compinsate with a big camera :P just want some cool pix |
| 16:35.56 | Trixer | Ok next question.. those little camera printer base station things? |
| 16:36.01 | Shirik | I'm trying to save up for a nikon 50D or whatever they have when I have enough money |
| 16:36.15 | Shirik | I estimate about $5000 including the lenses I want right now, so I'm almost there |
| 16:36.32 | Trixer | jesus |
| 16:36.33 | Hirsute | Yeah. I keep having to tell myself "After med school. After med school..." |
| 16:36.37 | Shirik | I need to get rid of my old SLR. I love it, but it's just costing me too much |
| 16:36.37 | Trixer | I dont want to spend more then 100 on one |
| 16:37.24 | cbreak | Trixer: my sister uses her digital camera on trips. When she came home, she digitally sent several hundred files to a service and they sent a package of pictures-on-paper back. I bet that was cheaper than what you can get with those station things |
| 16:37.31 | cbreak | and higher quality |
| 16:37.40 | Corr-work | yes, but those services usually don't process porn |
| 16:37.48 | cbreak | possibly. |
| 16:37.48 | Corr-work | although who would bother printing porn onto photos i cannot imagine |
| 16:38.07 | Trixer | Corr: Correct, and they are not instant.. I want instant gratifaction.. I want to take a piccy and be ohh thats a kewl one.. and then go and print it |
| 16:38.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-75-224.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:38.31 | cbreak | you should calculate the price per photo |
| 16:38.34 | cbreak | based on the materials |
| 16:38.36 | *** join/#wowuidev [Liquidor] (n=denras19@fw-tk-1.ruc.dk) |
| 16:38.37 | Corr-work | cubicle decorated with 50 different angle shots of your own parts >_> <_< that would be kinda weird |
| 16:38.38 | Trixer | I dont care about the price per photo |
| 16:38.50 | cbreak | I pull 1$ out of thin air. |
| 16:38.52 | Trixer | I care about the instant gratifaction and the convence of being able to hand them out to my friends almost instantly |
| 16:39.27 | Corr-work | well, i don't know how well the little "camera stations" work, although i highly recommend getting a camera and station that both support USB connections |
| 16:39.41 | Trixer | yeah |
| 16:39.44 | Corr-work | because trying to play the "super mini SD or mini super HD?" card game is just not worth it |
| 16:40.04 | Corr-work | get a printer with 50 different media slots and in 2 years you'll get a camera whose card doesn't fit into any of them |
| 16:40.36 | Trixer | lol |
| 16:40.42 | Trixer | I agree |
| 16:40.59 | Trixer | http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10377172 |
| 16:40.59 | cbreak | as long as you can attach it to a computer, that should do as mediator |
| 16:41.06 | Corr-work | and with USB, you can connect the camera to a PC and grab the image files through that. i don't know if there are any digital cameras that DON'T support USB, but if there are, their developers should be ashamed. |
| 16:41.13 | Trixer | well I have al aptop but I really dont want to have to attach it to a computer is the thing |
| 16:41.57 | Corr-work | just make sure you do research, read some professional reviews, for the camera and printer |
| 16:42.34 | Trixer | Yeah I will |
| 16:42.43 | cbreak | professional for a consumer product? :) |
| 16:43.51 | Trixer | well as far as the printer goes, I Think im just going to get something cheep at first |
| 16:43.53 | Corr-work | i mean, reviews by somebody who does reviews more often than they wash their car |
| 16:44.00 | Trixer | see how much I Really use it.. and if it ends up being something I Enjoy then ill upgrade later |
| 16:44.13 | cbreak | cheap printers use expensive consumables |
| 16:44.19 | Trixer | Agreed Cbreak |
| 16:44.21 | cbreak | if you thought raiding would be expensive, printing costs more. |
| 16:44.36 | Corr-work | at least the farming isn't as hard, usually |
| 16:44.37 | Trixer | but by the time the ink is out ill know wether or not I want to get a new one and upgrade to something better |
| 16:45.20 | cbreak | I doubt they use ink |
| 16:45.29 | cbreak | they probably use a thermo transfer technology |
| 16:45.42 | cbreak | so you will use special paper that has the ink integrated/packaged on sheets |
| 16:45.53 | Corr-work | at this point, i must admit ignorance. i haven't gone printer shopping in years. |
| 16:45.55 | cbreak | but it's been years since I looked at that, so it might have changed |
| 16:46.06 | Corr-work | at that time, inkjets were still the most popular for consumer-level photo printing |
| 16:46.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Carepolice (n=Samsung@cm114061.red83-165.mundo-r.com) |
| 16:46.25 | Corr-work | on special awesomegloss paper :3 |
| 16:46.30 | cbreak | visa/master card? |
| 16:46.36 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr. |
| 16:46.42 | Lopeppeppy | That's the "other" card reader! :) |
| 16:46.49 | cbreak | I've seen interesting wax based printers. |
| 16:47.12 | Corr-work | i remember reading something about wax printers. can't remember a thing about them, but i remember the reading. |
| 16:47.16 | pastamancer | hollerith? |
| 16:48.16 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraioc_ (n=sioraioc@94-192-60-10.zone6.bethere.co.uk) |
| 16:50.51 | Trixer | lol |
| 16:51.10 | *** join/#wowuidev kamdis (i=405f8902@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7b1e8d4f8f1fdcef) |
| 16:56.33 | ZorbaTHut | lesson of the day: don't open globalstrings.lua on someone's code repository that includes a javascript-based syntax highlighter |
| 16:56.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2808961b13cc37f5) |
| 16:57.34 | Cide | I'd say the level of stupidity depends on the implementation of said javascript-based syntax highlighter and the javascript engine itself |
| 17:00.42 | ZorbaTHut | considering that it almost entirely locked up my browser, at least one of those factors was not up to par :) |
| 17:02.42 | cbreak | you need noscript |
| 17:03.02 | Lopeppeppy | And to scan for the new Firefox-based malware. :( |
| 17:03.42 | cbreak | how does it work? |
| 17:03.51 | cbreak | security hole in which area? |
| 17:04.16 | Lopeppeppy | It masquerades as Greasemonkey and keylogs when you go to specifc banking sites... let me get linkies. |
| 17:04.33 | Lopeppeppy | http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/12/04/Firefox_users_targeted_by_rare_piece_of_malware_1.html |
| 17:05.16 | cbreak | that's more a joke than anything else it seems |
| 17:05.28 | Lopeppeppy | Ha ha funny? |
| 17:06.47 | cbreak | ha. ha. nice try. It's just a troyan, it doesn't use any security hole. |
| 17:06.56 | cbreak | according to the article |
| 17:07.21 | Lopeppeppy | Just a trojan still hurts. |
| 17:07.34 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, but it's not really newsworthy |
| 17:07.44 | ZorbaTHut | "there's another trojan in the world" <-- not news |
| 17:08.07 | Lopeppeppy | It might not be "news", but it's still nice to mention to friends who might not know yet? |
| 17:08.11 | cbreak | a troyan is inherently not malicious code, just code used in malicious ways |
| 17:08.33 | cbreak | it usually doesn't abuse any security holes or bugs, just the stupidity/gulibility of humans |
| 17:08.53 | ZorbaTHut | I guess I don't see the point of mentioning it, though. if they're the kind who's likely to run arbitrary programs that people send them, they're infected a hundred times over by now anyway. if they're not, it's not like this would change anything |
| 17:09.07 | cbreak | to get this particular one, youd have to manually override some security warnings in firefox |
| 17:09.40 | cbreak | or install it manually |
| 17:09.40 | cbreak | or abuse an unnamed security hole which might exist |
| 17:10.31 | Lopeppeppy | Or might not. *gentle shrug* Pardon me for mentioning it? *laugh* If even one other person in the lounge got a benefit, that's awesome. If not, so what? |
| 17:11.05 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: let them troll |
| 17:11.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (n=nahh@178.80-202-153.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:12.43 | cbreak | I don't think I am trolling. I am whining about the lack of cool malware lately |
| 17:12.52 | cbreak | when was the last big worm/virus? |
| 17:13.07 | Gnarfoz | is there a MouseWheelUp (the scroll thing) that you can define actions for for secure frames? (like clique does for [modified]left/middle/right clicks) |
| 17:13.13 | *** join/#wowuidev maddeathelf (n=chatzill@92.6.251.118) |
| 17:13.55 | *** part/#wowuidev maddeathelf (n=chatzill@92.6.251.118) |
| 17:13.59 | ZorbaTHut | I'm not trolling myself, I'm just pointing out that any behavior change that anyone would make in response to this would be a product of mere paranoia. there's nothing that this new trojan changes, it's just one more item in a long list of Things That Could Happen To You If You Run Random Stuff Off The 'Net |
| 17:14.52 | Lopeppeppy | As a sysadmin/IT support person with numerous sheeple, that long list always concerns me, 'cause they're on it, checking things off merrily... |
| 17:14.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Tifi (n=Tifi@dslb-088-073-086-188.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:15.11 | Shirik | hahahaha! |
| 17:15.12 | Shirik | Wow |
| 17:15.16 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.simovits.com/trojans/trojans_name.html <-- here's a list of trojans that only includes moderately common trojans with known ports that communicate online with them, as of 2002. I don't know about you guys but if that list adds one more item to it I'm just not gonna notice :P |
| 17:15.31 | Shirik | Okay, my guild wiped at 0.4% on KT last night, and so when I log on they're blaming me for not coming :) |
| 17:15.35 | Shirik | I saw the screenshot today |
| 17:15.45 | Shirik | I look at the chat box, what I see is |
| 17:15.55 | Lopeppeppy | 4%? Or really .4% ? |
| 17:15.57 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 17:16.14 | Shirik | "[Guild] Mine is always trying to have sex with me while I'm in arena. Is that the same thing?" immediately followed by wipe |
| 17:16.15 | zenzelezz | .4% of like 13M sounds reasonable |
| 17:16.16 | Shirik | I blame that guy |
| 17:16.24 | Shirik | it really was 0.4% |
| 17:16.30 | Gnarfoz | 25? |
| 17:16.35 | Lopeppeppy | If you're talking in Guild chat while a boss fight is going on, you need to be kicked in the head. |
| 17:16.45 | Shirik | it was someone that wasn't in the raid :) |
| 17:16.52 | Shirik | lua> 0.004 * 13000000 |
| 17:16.52 | lua_bot | Shirik: 52000 |
| 17:16.55 | Corr-work | cbreak: gone are the days of the good old viruses, that would reside in your boot sector or format your drive on a specific day |
| 17:16.57 | cbreak | blame who ever died first. |
| 17:16.58 | Lopeppeppy | Ah. See. I turn OFF that window when I'm in raids. |
| 17:17.00 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: 25? |
| 17:17.04 | ZorbaTHut | I've heard more than a few reports of people getting Bejeweled achievements while mid-raid ;) |
| 17:17.06 | Shirik | is it 25? |
| 17:17.09 | Shirik | I don't know, I wasn't there |
| 17:17.21 | Gnarfoz | if not 25, that number is way smaller ^^ |
| 17:18.35 | Shirik | oh |
| 17:18.37 | Shirik | you mean 25-man |
| 17:18.37 | Shirik | yes |
| 17:18.43 | Shirik | I thought you were saying 25 million :) |
| 17:18.49 | Gnarfoz | nah ^^ |
| 17:19.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 17:20.40 | Lunessa | STATION |
| 17:21.58 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, dear. |
| 17:23.14 | Lunessa | I can haz more sleeps plx? |
| 17:23.41 | zenzelezz | no |
| 17:23.43 | zenzelezz | no moar |
| 17:23.45 | Corr-work | our power went out just as i was hitting snooze this morning |
| 17:24.30 | Corr-work | i was awake enough to realize it, fortunately |
| 17:24.48 | Lopeppeppy | I didn't get more sleeps, so you can't have any either! |
| 17:24.52 | Corr-work | the clock's battery is currently missing, so i'd have been getting more sleep. |
| 17:25.18 | Gnarfoz | power going out |
| 17:25.22 | Lunessa | Seasonal weather changes induced my first real bout of insomnia in months last night. I managed to sleep from 6am - 10am. |
| 17:25.37 | Gnarfoz | haven't had that happen in a decade :O |
| 17:26.06 | Trixer | Lunessa: I have the same problem |
| 17:26.18 | Lunessa | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/12/04/funny-pictures-rainbow-i-tastes-it/ |
| 17:26.39 | Trixer | Lunessa: last night I went running and after two and half miles I still couldnt sleep |
| 17:27.02 | Corr-work | this is unusual |
| 17:27.16 | Trixer | What? |
| 17:27.18 | Corr-work | cats don't go for sweet things. although perhaps it was just the novelty of ice. |
| 17:27.22 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, I slept like a cat last night. I was up every hour to prowl my territory, and then back to bed. |
| 17:27.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-167-195-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 17:27.28 | Lunessa | Trixer: I ended up getting up, adjusting the heat, taking tryptophan, eating breakfast and reading 250 pages. |
| 17:27.45 | Lopeppeppy | Corr-work, my cat LOVES ice. But I'm sure that's quite photoshopped. |
| 17:28.09 | Trixer | Lope: You think maybe? |
| 17:28.13 | Corr-work | i have one close-up picture of a cat's tongue. it's awesome. i need more pictures like that. |
| 17:28.17 | Lopeppeppy | Pact to get some sleep tonight, Lunessa? Take some valerian? |
| 17:29.15 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@cm-84.215.134.225.getinternet.no) |
| 17:29.29 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: I won't need it. 4 hours of sleep today will ensure I sleep the sleep of the dead tonight. |
| 17:30.38 | Lopeppeppy | Not me... I'm willing to bet this insomnia streak lasts all weekend, honestly. I'll be a zombie by Monday. |
| 17:33.42 | Trixer | Lope: I normally have it for about a span of 3 months, and then sleep good for about 6 and then it starts again. |
| 17:34.12 | Corr-work | well, that sucks |
| 17:34.51 | Trixer | Its life.. I think its mostly stress from work and stuff that does it... |
| 17:36.03 | Lopeppeppy | I get it pretty predictably, and I'm good at breaking the cycle inside of 2 weeks. I lived with it nonstop for 4 years, and that was hell. Never again. |
| 17:36.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (i=amarande@24-151-102-150.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 17:36.38 | Trixer | Lope: I have gotten used to it... basically I just find thigns to do at night... a shower and running alot of times helps cut the time back for me to "pass out" |
| 17:37.17 | Trixer | normally I will finally fall asleep some where between 5-6am and then wake up for work at 8:30 on the weekends I normally can sleep till about 10 am.. I dont know its like my body hates to sleep |
| 17:37.21 | Amarande | G'afternoon |
| 17:37.34 | Amarande | ehh, I wish I didn't need to sleep as much as I seem to |
| 17:38.09 | Lopeppeppy | I try for 5-7 hours a night. I usually get closer to 5. Less than 4 and the Cranky comes. |
| 17:38.10 | Amarande | though I guess sleep has its uses |
| 17:38.21 | Amarande | such as when one starts to feel like one's at a mental war with oneself :P |
| 17:38.30 | Hunter85 | question: Is there any rule about the linebreaker ";" in lua? I automaticly add it sometimes and it seems like it never raise errors and dose not effect anything when its pressent. Should never be used? |
| 17:39.11 | Corr-work | these days i regularly run on 3-5 hours |
| 17:39.17 | Corr-work | it's unhealthy. |
| 17:39.28 | Trixer | Corr: If I get more then 4 im a ray of sunshine |
| 17:39.34 | Hirsute | Hunter85: It isn't necessary, but I don't believe the semicolon causes any problems in lua. |
| 17:39.35 | Corr-work | SUNSHINE :D |
| 17:39.52 | Hunter85 | Hirsute: ok, ty |
| 17:40.16 | Trixer | Corr: normally I get about 2 hours of good deep sleep and 1 hour of restless sleep... and like 4 hours of laying in bed trying to sleep lol |
| 17:40.17 | Amarande | ever find that most of the time you can be pretty calm and easygoing, but sometimes it seems like there's like, say, two things that you know are really both true and important parts of you, but they simply -do not- work together, and leave you in a spinning mental state? |
| 17:40.22 | Corr-work | har har |
| 17:40.42 | Corr-work | i must go to lunch. byee. |
| 17:40.53 | Amarande | You know, the kind of spinning mental state where it seems like you could strangle an elekk with bare hands. :P |
| 17:41.04 | Lunessa | Amarande: When I feel that way I take a nap. |
| 17:41.11 | Trixer | Ama: Nope cant say I have ever had the strangled elekk mental state.. |
| 17:41.33 | Trixer | Ama: I have had the "kill everyone else im not the problem its all of them" mental state lol |
| 17:42.07 | Lopeppeppy | Amarande, that would be PMS, I go through that monthly and am always glad when no one dies. |
| 17:42.07 | Amarande | Lunessa: If only I could force myself to go to sleep on demand :S |
| 17:42.16 | NightHawkTheSane | drugs, imo. |
| 17:42.19 | Amarande | Lopeppeppy: I don't think guys get PMS, though |
| 17:42.36 | Lopeppeppy | Yes you most certainly do. |
| 17:42.41 | Amarande | we do? |
| 17:42.52 | Lopeppeppy | It's not predictably monthly, but you most certainly do. |
| 17:43.06 | Trixer | Yes |
| 17:43.08 | NightHawkTheSane | pms as a mental state as opposed to physiological state, sure. |
| 17:43.14 | Trixer | Guys get PMS as well its diffrent but prety much the same thing |
| 17:43.30 | Lopeppeppy | Different hormones, same reaction. :) |
| 17:43.43 | Trixer | NightHawk, no there are some physical parts of it as well.. of course not like a woman, but we go through it when our brain flushes certain chemicals and what not |
| 17:44.09 | Lunessa | Amarande: I wish I could too; I just suffer my insomnia. I have it on both sides of the sleep cycle. Getting to, and staying asleep. |
| 17:44.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:44.54 | Lopeppeppy | And doctors won't routinely treat those with mixed symptoms. |
| 17:45.00 | Trixer | Lunessa: Me too.. have you gotten checked out for "Sleep Apina" or however you spell it that could be a pretty good cuase of it as well. |
| 17:45.32 | Lunessa | Trixer: Yes, not my issue. |
| 17:45.54 | Trixer | Lunessa: Yeah, I had to go through a sleep study too, it wasnt my issue as well... I was depressed about it. |
| 17:46.26 | Trixer | I hate taking sleeping meds, because I get addicted to them so freaking easly and it comes to the point where I cant even start to sleep with out them. It scares me so I stay away from them. |
| 17:46.39 | NightHawkTheSane | okay, today's daily WTF is awesome, and really scary. |
| 17:46.41 | Amarande | I'd say what particular attributes of mine seem to be utterly incompatible, but ... ehh, this probably isn't the right forum for that :S |
| 17:47.05 | Trixer | Amarande: Your a pregent man?!?! |
| 17:47.05 | Lopeppeppy | Amarande, we talk about just about anything here. *hugs* |
| 17:47.07 | Amarande | on a more WoW side, I like the new warlock spell/firestones |
| 17:47.19 | Trixer | Firestones? |
| 17:47.19 | Amarande | I also was surprised that they're permanents and not Conjured Items, too |
| 17:47.28 | Amarande | Trixer: you probably didn't think much of them before 3.0 |
| 17:47.31 | Trixer | Where do you guys get all your uptodate wow info from/ |
| 17:47.31 | Amarande | they used to be utter junk |
| 17:47.39 | Amarande | now they're pretty good |
| 17:47.40 | Lunessa | Trixer: I was prescribed sleeping aids, but I refused to take them. I dislike ingesting hypnotics. And I never felt rested. I just felt groggy. |
| 17:47.57 | Amarande | they're stones that give temporary enchant buffs to weapons |
| 17:48.00 | foxlit | Meh, this password issue is pretty silly |
| 17:48.00 | Lopeppeppy | Trixer: Bluetracker. |
| 17:48.04 | Trixer | Lunessa: like wise.. I felt like I slept but I didnt feel like I slept hard to explain |
| 17:48.18 | Hirsute | Lunessa: That's because most sleep aids change the way sleep works. Reduces the really restful sleep. |
| 17:48.18 | foxlit | Effectively reduces things to 36 symbols per char. |
| 17:48.36 | Hirsute | The only one I'm aware of that doesn't do that is Zolpidem. |
| 17:48.45 | Amarande | firestone gives +1% damage to burst spells and +45 spell crit rating, spellstone gives +1% to dot ticks and +52 spell haste rating |
| 17:48.48 | Amarande | at least at 70 |
| 17:48.48 | Lunessa | Hirsute: CF: Hypnotics. a chemical coma is not sleep. :P |
| 17:48.55 | Amarande | not sure what the 80 ones do yet, since I haven't gone to northrend to level yet |
| 17:48.58 | Hirsute | Lunessa: Exactly. |
| 17:49.01 | Trixer | Why do warlocks get more cool stuff :( |
| 17:49.02 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: password issue? |
| 17:49.06 | Trixer | I want to see some sexy stuff for my druid lol |
| 17:49.40 | foxlit | Your wow password is case-insensitive. |
| 17:49.40 | Amarande | Trixer, I"m pretty sure you can apply the firestone or spellstone to someone else's weapon |
| 17:49.40 | Amarande | although the stone itself is BoP |
| 17:49.43 | Amarande | I think those stones are one of the reasons they're doing away with wizard oil and the like |
| 17:49.59 | Lopeppeppy | Great, so now I can only get weapon buffs if I know a warlock? *sigh* |
| 17:50.01 | foxlit | " I"m pretty sure you can apply the firestone or spellstone to someone else's weapon" why? |
| 17:50.03 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: oh, yeah. |
| 17:50.12 | Lopeppeppy | And they're BoP, so I can't buy them on the AH if I'm a solo player. Great. |
| 17:50.20 | foxlit | There are BoP-item based enchants that you can't apply through trade. |
| 17:50.21 | Amarande | foxlit: it says 'target weapon' and doesn't seem to say it has to be yours |
| 17:50.45 | Trixer | the reason it says target weapon |
| 17:50.49 | Trixer | is beacuse you can have more then one weapon |
| 17:50.52 | Trixer | in your inventory |
| 17:51.05 | Trixer | So I guess if you trusted a warlock enough to hand over your unbound weapon it might work |
| 17:51.34 | Hirsute | Wait, the spell/firestones are now permanent weapon enchants? |
| 17:52.00 | NightHawkTheSane | no, temporary weapon enchants. |
| 17:52.07 | Hirsute | Ah, okay. |
| 17:52.08 | Amarande | Hirsute: one hour tench's, like oils were |
| 17:52.31 | Hirsute | <--Sad that sharpening/weightstones were killed for high level players. |
| 17:52.33 | Lopeppeppy | Just much less available than oils. |
| 17:52.47 | Trixer | So, is the RoF summon the only way a none druid character can get to nighthaven or whatever? |
| 17:52.48 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: and it's not "i think", it's explicitly stated they were removing oils/stones in part because they de-valued class abilities that did similar things |
| 17:53.01 | Hirsute | Are oils suffering the same fate as the stones? |
| 17:53.01 | foxlit | You can walk in to Nighthaven |
| 17:53.08 | foxlit | You wouldn't really want to, but you can. |
| 17:53.09 | Trixer | Foxlit you can? |
| 17:53.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Hirsute: all non-class-ability temp enchants are. |
| 17:53.19 | Hirsute | :( |
| 17:53.24 | foxlit | through felwood |
| 17:53.26 | Lopeppeppy | So now the class abilities are so valuable that not every player can actually have them. |
| 17:53.29 | Lunessa | One does not simply /walk/ /into Nighthaven. |
| 17:53.36 | Trixer | Explained |
| 17:53.39 | Trixer | erm Explain |
| 17:53.47 | Hirsute | We're talking Moonglade? |
| 17:53.53 | Trixer | the Druid town |
| 17:54.03 | Trixer | that you get the spell to summon yoiur self too |
| 17:54.06 | Amarande | actually, druids getting their nighthaven teleport has irritated me immensely before |
| 17:54.07 | Trixer | I think it is moonglade |
| 17:54.09 | Lunessa | I was just making a LoTR movie joke. |
| 17:54.13 | Amarande | on my old paladin, on which I actually DID Maraudon |
| 17:54.18 | Hirsute | Take a left in the Timbermaw tunnel instead of going stright through Wintersprink. |
| 17:54.20 | Lopeppeppy | Nighthaven is a town in Moonglade. |
| 17:54.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: given that the content is designed around not having them, its not actually a problem. :p |
| 17:54.22 | Amarande | see, the problem with this one is: you get one of the Mara quests when it is orange |
| 17:54.24 | Hirsute | *Winderspring. |
| 17:54.40 | Amarande | however, by the time you actually do what you gotta do in Felwood to get to Moonglade in one piece, the quest has already gone GREEN |
| 17:54.42 | foxlit | Your irritations are irrational, Amarande. :) |
| 17:54.45 | Lopeppeppy | NightHawkTheSane, it's designed around not having them IF you can get to that level, with that gear... for solo players, whatever. |
| 17:54.56 | Hirsute | bah. Can't type today. |
| 17:54.59 | Hirsute | No coding for me. |
| 17:54.59 | Amarande | at least, I usually don't find myself in felwood till mid 50s |
| 17:55.03 | Lopeppeppy | Amarande, I strip naked at like level 20 and go through the tunnel. |
| 17:55.06 | Amarande | Lopeppeppy: you can still use oils etc. from 1-70 |
| 17:55.12 | Amarande | the recipes themselves aren't going away either |
| 17:55.15 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: er, i dont think solo play was EVER designed with the assumption that you WOULD have them |
| 17:55.23 | Amarande | but they won't work on Northrend gear, and there's no higher level ones past 70 |
| 17:55.31 | NightHawkTheSane | actually, they DO work on some northrend gear. |
| 17:55.37 | Lopeppeppy | They were available on the AH, I could have them if I was a completely solo player with no friends and no skills. |
| 17:55.40 | Amarande | Night: ones with a level req of 68-70? |
| 17:55.47 | Hirsute | Just like you can still use speed-increasing trinkets until 70, then they stop working. That bugs me too. |
| 17:55.49 | Lopeppeppy | These stones I have to know a warlock personally. |
| 17:55.51 | Amarande | lemme guess, on the flip side: |
| 17:56.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: no, even higher level ones. THere's an ilvl cut off somewhere, but I think it's no lower than 174 |
| 17:56.09 | Amarande | you can't use them on outland quest gear, at all, because all outland quest gear is ilvl 81+ and it goes by ilvl for no-level-req gear |
| 17:56.17 | Trixer | Yeah I really dislike anything that says hey this just magically stops working when you get to this level |
| 17:56.22 | Amarande | Night: weird |
| 17:56.24 | Trixer | your like wtf, I get stronger so my stuff breaks! |
| 17:56.27 | Amarande | which is probably the reason there's so much forum QQ |
| 17:56.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: all item level stuff goes by ilvl, not required level. |
| 17:56.42 | Amarande | hmm, that's not the experience of many folks |
| 17:56.43 | NightHawkTheSane | no, the forum qq is because people are fucking idiots. |
| 17:56.49 | foxlit | disenchanting goes mostly by required level :) |
| 17:56.59 | Amarande | like with the 35+ only enchants |
| 17:57.21 | Amarande | it only seems to go by ilvl on quest reward stuff that has no level req ... if it has a level req 30-34 (which means it HAS an ilvl 35-39), it seems to not work |
| 17:57.57 | Amarande | It's just a good thing there's no 21-30 AV. :) |
| 17:57.58 | Trixer | I really wish I could smoke some of the drugs the WoW developers do |
| 17:58.07 | NightHawkTheSane | I've put sharpening stones on several northrend blues. |
| 17:58.31 | Amarande | Anyway Lopeppeppy, you can use the existing temporary enchant items for a while |
| 17:58.35 | Hirsute | Did you notice an actual damage increase on those items? |
| 17:58.36 | Trixer | so wait they are taking out like sharpening stones and weights? |
| 17:58.37 | Amarande | they'll stop working at some point through northrend, though |
| 17:58.49 | Hirsute | Trixer: They won't work for higher level gear. |
| 17:58.54 | Trixer | Thats so fucking gay |
| 17:59.02 | Trixer | no offense to any gay people.. |
| 17:59.16 | foxlit | An ignorant complaint, really |
| 17:59.25 | Trixer | Though I guess if you ahve a big two handed spiked hammer |
| 17:59.30 | Trixer | and want to add a little old stone to it |
| 17:59.33 | Trixer | its not going to help much lol |
| 18:00.04 | foxlit | Considering the increase in base DPS on northrend weapons, they already include a sharpening stone -- and then some |
| 18:00.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Hirsute: *shrug* its really hard to discern whether i'm actually getting +12 damage and +14 crit rating while I'm worrying about tanking an instance :p |
| 18:00.47 | Amarande | foxlit: tell me they scaled up spell power correspondingly too? :) |
| 18:01.01 | foxlit | I think so. |
| 18:01.04 | Amarande | At least tankadins don't need spellpower weapons to tank properly anymore, though |
| 18:01.19 | Lopeppeppy | THAT was a good change. |
| 18:01.24 | Amarande | one thing that really, really sucked in BC with paladins was you needed spellpower weapons, and there were no 1H spellpower weapons with more than 41.4 DPS or so |
| 18:01.27 | Hirsute | NightHawkTheSane: Yeah, I'm sure. I'm just interested in how it actually works, if it will not let you apply the stone to the weapon, or if you can apply it and it just won't work. |
| 18:01.42 | Amarande | There were literally OLD WORLD weapons with better DPS than the weapons tankadins had to use |
| 18:01.47 | Lopeppeppy | Yup. |
| 18:01.48 | Trixer | WEll the base dps increase of damage is your reward for spending a week trying to get 1 level |
| 18:01.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Hirsute: ill try and test it in a sec, actually |
| 18:02.00 | Lopeppeppy | Or they could bid on the caster weapons and watch half of the raid scream at them. |
| 18:02.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: but it didn't matter before, because weapon dps was irrelevent to pally threat |
| 18:02.15 | Hirsute | foxlit: Yeah, I still enjoyed be able to sell them on my Blacksmith. One of the only things that was profitable for the profession at all. |
| 18:02.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: an ignorant raid, then. :P |
| 18:02.29 | foxlit | That's fixed too, really |
| 18:02.42 | foxlit | you sell sockets now :) |
| 18:02.43 | Trixer | Ill tell you what I found out while leveling my alchemy that swiftness potions can turn a decent penny |
| 18:02.48 | Lopeppeppy | NightHawkTheSane, you have NO idea how hard I had to campaign for paladin rights in DPS and tank gear... ugh. |
| 18:02.59 | ZorbaTHut | hirsute, rods rods rods rods rods |
| 18:03.10 | ZorbaTHut | (especially if you can find a friendly alchemist to make arcanite for you) |
| 18:03.23 | Trixer | Zorba: Im an alchemist! |
| 18:03.26 | Hirsute | foxlit: But as I understand it, the sockets take up the enchant space, and don't offer as much as many enchants. I'm not there yet. |
| 18:03.36 | Hirsute | though, so I could be speaking from my ear. |
| 18:03.36 | foxlit | I don't think they do |
| 18:03.43 | ZorbaTHut | hirsute, I believe that none of the socket "enchants" actually take an enchant slot |
| 18:03.45 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: that's unfortunate. it's never been a problem in my recent guilds. |
| 18:03.51 | foxlit | iirc, the BoE socket is for waist |
| 18:03.52 | Hirsute | ZorbaTHut: I have a bunch of Arcanite. I should make it into rods, eh? |
| 18:03.55 | foxlit | There are no waist enchants. |
| 18:04.01 | Hirsute | ZorbaTHut: Oh really? That will make me happy. |
| 18:04.02 | ZorbaTHut | hirsute, absolutely. I sell them for like 70g each |
| 18:04.03 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: it is |
| 18:04.20 | ZorbaTHut | and if I'm buying it in thorium/arcane crystal form, they cost me perhaps 25g to produce, if that |
| 18:04.20 | Amarande | Lopeppeppy, anyway, when it comes to inner wars? Generally kind, sweet, thoughtful, usually pretty calm unless something happens to ruffle me nature combined with a lately rather dominating, kinky side in certain other manners, I keep perceiving as a pairing which is destined to end extremely badly in virtually all cases :S |
| 18:04.39 | Lopeppeppy | Amarande, let's you and me talk. *nod* |
| 18:04.46 | Amarande | also, wtf am I missing in explore silithus |
| 18:04.51 | Hirsute | That's what bugs me, so much of the stuff that professions do that's actually good, and could be profitable, is BoP. |
| 18:04.53 | ZorbaTHut | plus, their vendor value is so low that I can put them up in huge bulk and not worry about AH fees :) |
| 18:04.56 | Hirsute | Or makes things bind when applied. |
| 18:04.58 | Amarande | I don't see ANYTHING dim on my map, and my cartographer is set to dim unexplored spots. |
| 18:05.03 | Cidan | my stoommacchhh |
| 18:05.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 18:05.36 | Trixer | I dont know if this is a soar subject in this channel |
| 18:05.39 | Trixer | but have any of you tried WAR? |
| 18:05.52 | Hirsute | Trixer: I have not. |
| 18:05.59 | ZorbaTHut | I tried it |
| 18:06.01 | Hirsute | Barely have time to keep up with WoW |
| 18:06.05 | Cidan | It's not a sore subject at all |
| 18:06.05 | ZorbaTHut | I keep meaning to go back but I just haven't |
| 18:06.07 | Trixer | I hear its awesome pvp? |
| 18:06.08 | Lunessa | Amarande: The cave for the cultists near where the zone opens up coming up from Un'Goro is usually what people are missing. |
| 18:06.12 | Cidan | I could not get into WAR though |
| 18:06.16 | Cidan | It felt... bleh. |
| 18:06.18 | ZorbaTHut | it was sort of fun, but . . . not hugely better in any way, and worse in quite a few. |
| 18:06.26 | Trixer | well I was a big fan of the table top game |
| 18:06.27 | ZorbaTHut | it's incredibly unpolished and it doesn't feel smooth at all. |
| 18:06.39 | Trixer | Well thats a new mmorpg for you... |
| 18:06.40 | Cidan | I'm a huge fan of 40k, and THAT one, I can't wait for. |
| 18:06.44 | Trixer | what im wondering is its pvp.. |
| 18:06.59 | Hirsute | <--Avoids PvP at all costs. |
| 18:07.04 | Cidan | Right now, I'm waiting for Star Trek Online, Stargate, and Jumpgate. |
| 18:07.05 | Lunessa | Warhammer is massively PVP |
| 18:07.09 | Trixer | Cidan |
| 18:07.14 | Trixer | have you ever played Eve Online? |
| 18:07.19 | Trixer | I really enjoy eve online |
| 18:07.20 | Cidan | Yes, God, for too long. |
| 18:07.38 | Trixer | Cidan, yeah I was really active in Eve online.. lmao |
| 18:07.41 | Cidan | I think I still have a bounty out on me after I stole ~1bn ISK from this one corp. |
| 18:07.47 | Trixer | lmao |
| 18:07.51 | Trixer | want to go blow em up? |
| 18:07.58 | Cidan | I worked my way up their ranks and then cleared them out. |
| 18:08.07 | Trixer | Yeah lots of people do that... |
| 18:08.08 | Cidan | Stole all I could from their hangers too. |
| 18:08.13 | Trixer | Thats what I love about eve |
| 18:08.15 | Cidan | Yeah, I'm evil, :x |
| 18:08.19 | Cidan | Yeah, it's all allowed. |
| 18:08.24 | Trixer | all those dirty under handed evil thigns that would just get you banned from other games |
| 18:08.25 | Cidan | There is no "HE STOLE FROM ME" |
| 18:08.28 | Trixer | is totally ok in eve |
| 18:08.35 | Cidan | I love it. |
| 18:08.40 | Trixer | he ripped me off, he stole from me, he tricked me.. he was a bad person |
| 18:08.45 | Trixer | and you get "Welcome to eve!" |
| 18:08.48 | Cidan | lol |
| 18:09.03 | Cidan | I played it for a loonngg time, but, I just don't have the time to invest in it anymore |
| 18:09.04 | Trixer | I love the advancement system too |
| 18:09.13 | Cidan | Which is why I really want STO and Stargate |
| 18:09.20 | Cidan | Fuck, I want Stargate, D= |
| 18:09.21 | Trixer | I like knowing that I can walk away from the gamea nd my character is still getting better |
| 18:09.31 | Trixer | lol Hirsute.. yeah stay away from eve its not for pvers |
| 18:09.41 | Industrial | Where can I find the absolute stats for howmuch hit an enhancement shaman needs at 80 to cap it, what stats have preference over others (eg str is out, ap is in) etcblahblah :D? |
| 18:09.41 | Trixer | the first time a BS scans you down while your running missions and blows your ship up |
| 18:09.44 | Trixer | you probally will cry |
| 18:09.44 | Cidan | Yeah, EVE is the most hard core PVP game out there. |
| 18:09.55 | Hirsute | Or for people who want the game to do what it can to reduce the amount of pure assholery that people can get away with. |
| 18:09.56 | ZorbaTHut | I <3 Eve. No time for it anymore, but it's so entertaining. |
| 18:10.06 | ZorbaTHut | I know people who made incredible amounts of money with the most ridiculously transparent scams |
| 18:10.12 | Lunessa | Industrial: ElitestJerks forums. |
| 18:10.20 | Trixer | I didnt scam people I made my money mining moons |
| 18:10.27 | ZorbaTHut | "Give me a lot of money and I'll get you into this corporation that I have no affiliation with whatsoever." "Okay!" |
| 18:10.31 | Cidan | I've been held up quite a few times in EVE; you'll zone into a sector and you'll get a whisper, "Eject out of your ship or we kill you." |
| 18:10.41 | ZorbaTHut | "Now give me more money, I promise you'll get in this time." "Okay!" |
| 18:10.42 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:10.42 | Trixer | lmao yeah Zorba Goons is commoon for doing that |
| 18:10.43 | Lunessa | Industrial and I'm a fairly good Enhancement Shaman at level 80. :P |
| 18:10.46 | ZorbaTHut | "More money. Also, your ship." "Okay!" |
| 18:10.56 | ZorbaTHut | at some point you stop feeling sorry for them and you just laugh at them |
| 18:11.00 | Trixer | lol Cidan yeah we used to ransom people all the time. |
| 18:11.03 | ZorbaTHut | trixer, yeah, I was in Goonswarm :) |
| 18:11.12 | Cidan | mm |
| 18:11.21 | Trixer | Thats a shame Zorba, I bet I have shot at least a thousand of your boys down |
| 18:11.28 | Cidan | Oh EVE, how I wish I had time to play you on this beautiful 24 inch wide screen glossy monitor. |
| 18:11.34 | Trixer | lmao |
| 18:11.49 | Trixer | Ohh Eve how I wish that your game had just a bit more to it... |
| 18:11.53 | Industrial | Lunessa: me too! cept im not sure if I should enchant the new hit/crit enchant over mongoose |
| 18:11.56 | ZorbaTHut | trixer, wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand, on my first fleet fight I tackled a dreadnought in my puny little Merlin, then got a solo kill on the pilot's pod :D |
| 18:12.01 | Trixer | I dont know at times eve feels lacking, and other times I feel overwelmed by all the shit you can do |
| 18:12.09 | ZorbaTHut | ah, that game was fun sometimes |
| 18:12.09 | Industrial | im not capped yet (4.21% hit) |
| 18:12.10 | Cidan | whew, a pod killer. |
| 18:12.12 | kamdis | EVE Goons ftw. They rack me up. |
| 18:12.16 | kamdis | *crack |
| 18:12.20 | kamdis | whoops! |
| 18:12.38 | Lopeppeppy | Rack is fun too. |
| 18:12.44 | Trixer | Zorba, thats why my dreadnaught has a billion diffrent drones that would send your merlin back to the scrap yard ;) |
| 18:12.49 | Cidan | Yes, Racks are fun. |
| 18:12.53 | Trixer | The thing I hate about eve is that eveyone has a billiona lts |
| 18:12.55 | Cidan | Oh wait |
| 18:13.02 | Trixer | I really wish they would limit the alts in that game and it would rock! |
| 18:13.05 | ZorbaTHut | trixer, it was lagged enough, and there were enough targets, that they failed pretty badly |
| 18:13.12 | ZorbaTHut | the funny thing is I couldn't even use a MWD, I was a sitting duck |
| 18:13.19 | Industrial | Lunessa: do you use EP, ENhancement Points? Is there an addon you use with it? |
| 18:13.46 | Trixer | wait wait what whips? I wanna come too! |
| 18:13.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (i=proditor@c80-217-108-181.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:13.53 | Lopeppeppy | That's the point, Trixer. |
| 18:13.54 | Lunessa | Industrial, I use RatingsBuster and I use formulas on WoWWiki. |
| 18:14.01 | Trixer | as long as im on the giving side.. the taking side isnt so much fun for me lol |
| 18:14.04 | Cidan | http://www.stargateworlds.com/ |
| 18:14.07 | Cidan | do want |
| 18:14.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Olorin (n=bcsbcsbc@87-194-223-111.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:14.09 | Cidan | do want |
| 18:14.10 | Cidan | D= |
| 18:14.22 | Trixer | Im not a big stargate fan |
| 18:14.30 | Cidan | and it's actually funded by MGM, they have like, unlimited money |
| 18:14.32 | Trixer | Jumpgate evolution looks promising |
| 18:14.41 | Lopeppeppy | Trixer, that's what they ALL say. |
| 18:15.03 | Industrial | Cidan: indeed do want |
| 18:15.09 | Industrial | <3 SG |
| 18:15.20 | Trixer | Lope: Heh.. unless you like the taste of leathery whips shoved down your throat.. dont touch me with it :P |
| 18:15.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Cidan: color me skeptical >< |
| 18:15.23 | Industrial | actually, only if they are going to do the pre atlantis world >_> |
| 18:15.25 | Cidan | Industrial: I'm in the middle of rewatching all of SG1, I stopped sometime after Season 5 because it got stupid |
| 18:15.29 | Cidan | NightHawkTheSane: Eh? |
| 18:15.50 | Lopeppeppy | Trixer, that's what they all say. :| |
| 18:15.53 | Trixer | Im also looking forward to starcraft 2 |
| 18:15.54 | NightHawkTheSane | i have my doubts about how good it will be. i'm a cynic, though. |
| 18:16.02 | Industrial | Cidan: season 9/10 got stupid with the orei. I just stopped watching there, then continued to have watched everything of it then concluded I should have stopped watching. |
| 18:16.07 | Cidan | NightHawkTheSane: Naaaaaaaaaaaww, you? A cynic?! |
| 18:16.20 | NightHawkTheSane | Cidan: I KNOW, so hard to believe, right? |
| 18:16.37 | Trixer | I dont know.. im kind of getting tired of MMOs in general. I love the pvp part of them.. but everything else is just gay |
| 18:16.38 | Cidan | Industrial: I heard, which is why I'm glad this is the end of Atlantis, they are stopping while they are ahead. |
| 18:16.45 | Trixer | thats why I really liked Guildwars.. but it got old too |
| 18:16.51 | Cidan | Trixer: I love the PvP, and the social aspect. |
| 18:17.02 | Cidan | I LOVE player housing, I wish WoW had it, D= |
| 18:17.06 | Trixer | lol |
| 18:17.11 | Trixer | Eq2 FTW! |
| 18:17.18 | Trixer | they have the best player housing of any mmo I have played |
| 18:17.18 | Cidan | Yes, EQ2 has one of the best |
| 18:17.22 | Cidan | well, sort of |
| 18:17.31 | Olorin | In lua is it possible to formulate a reference to a variable name by joining two strings? |
| 18:17.32 | Cidan | LotRO has amaaaaaazziinngg player housing |
| 18:17.36 | Trixer | So on another note, did you know that Eve is bringing in walking around in stations and player housing after xmas |
| 18:17.54 | Cidan | No shit? |
| 18:17.56 | Trixer | Swear it |
| 18:18.05 | Trixer | they have videos up all over youtube just google it |
| 18:18.16 | Cidan | Olorin: You mean running a string as a Lua? |
| 18:18.32 | Trixer | they also have this badass star map that will let people with the right skills sit in a station and give orders to fleets in space to move places and shit |
| 18:18.48 | Cidan | That's... interesting. |
| 18:18.57 | Trixer | and they are bring planet type taking over and combat.. in like a risk sort of fashion lol |
| 18:19.13 | Cidan | Woah, that's neat! |
| 18:19.15 | Trixer | changing the way POSes work as well |
| 18:19.20 | Cidan | That might keep them fighting against STO. |
| 18:19.32 | Cidan | because STO and Jumpgate look like they might take over EVE at this rate |
| 18:19.44 | ZorbaTHut | star trek online isn't getting anywhere near Eve |
| 18:19.56 | Trixer | yeah one thing I can say about EVE is that they do an awesome job on features.. they got a bit of a tech problem cause of the way their servers are set up... and every once in a while some douche finds a way to completely break something but other then that its a very balanced and rock solid game. |
| 18:19.58 | Cidan | I don't know... much bigger following, and it really looks good. |
| 18:19.59 | Olorin | well i want to have a generic debug function and I want it to check if the addon thats usuing it at a partiuclar moment is flagged for debug messages.. i thought if i could get the addon name+Debug to be a variable... |
| 18:20.02 | Cidan | Cryptic is doing a good job. |
| 18:20.15 | Trixer | Cidan |
| 18:20.16 | ZorbaTHut | there's a *huge* number of people who play Eve who will simply be dissatisfied with STO. Cryptic doesn't know how to do crafting or PvP, and those are the two huge draws of Eve. |
| 18:20.17 | Trixer | its not happening |
| 18:20.30 | Trixer | Zorba: I agree |
| 18:20.34 | ZorbaTHut | I'm not saying STO won't be successful, I think it'll be very successful |
| 18:20.37 | Cidan | Hm, we'll see I suppose. |
| 18:20.39 | ZorbaTHut | I just think it won't be stealing much of Eve's market base. |
| 18:20.59 | Hirsute | Olorin: No idea. Someone else might know though. |
| 18:20.59 | Trixer | Cidan: I personally dont think eve will give up much if any of its player base to either of the games. |
| 18:21.20 | Cidan | Olorin: You could insert into the global table, or use a table to store the data. |
| 18:21.29 | ZorbaTHut | also, jumpgate is being made by Netdevil |
| 18:21.47 | ZorbaTHut | Netdevil does not exactly have the most illustrious MMORPG history. |
| 18:22.02 | Trixer | Zorba: Agreed as well |
| 18:22.05 | Cidan | Well, I didn't say Eve would lose its player base, I meant that STO will out-do EVE, EVE will always be... EVE. |
| 18:22.07 | Olorin | Cidan, that works, thanks :) |
| 18:22.19 | NeoTron | I don't think STO will be popular, it'll probably be a flop of a game like most MMO's. In general, that's the safest bet... besides making a successful star trek game ... yeah good luck |
| 18:22.35 | Trixer | Cidan: I disagree.. I dont think many scifi games are going to out do eve, at least ones that focus on star ships. |
| 18:22.35 | Cidan | Meh, I have my hopes for STO. |
| 18:22.41 | Hirsute | Too many trekkies to argue with you about the theory. |
| 18:22.48 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, Cryptic's experienced, and they have good people working on it. |
| 18:22.52 | ZorbaTHut | I think it'll work out well. |
| 18:23.11 | Trixer | Frankly most scifi mmos flop within the first 2 years. |
| 18:23.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Godzmack_ (n=Godzmack@85-220-10-51.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is) |
| 18:23.21 | Trixer | or go extremely under ground |
| 18:23.22 | ZorbaTHut | trixer, you can remove "scifi" from that line if you wish, and it's still true |
| 18:23.25 | NeoTron | the track record for MMO's in general works against them |
| 18:23.26 | Amarande | WTB Azeroth flying mount :( |
| 18:23.29 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=chatzill@adcom137.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 18:23.45 | Hirsute | Alas, that seems to be one thing Blizz isn't interested in doing. |
| 18:23.50 | Amarande | Wonder why sci-fi MMOs fail so much |
| 18:23.52 | Trixer | Zorba: Yeah I know, I used to work for a company that makes a mmorpg engine, but what im saying is that even well funded scifi mmos die horribly |
| 18:23.54 | Industrial | Lunessa: ping |
| 18:24.01 | Amarande | although as we were discussing the other night |
| 18:24.01 | Trixer | fact of the matter is that peopel just dont want scifi on their mmos. |
| 18:24.06 | NeoTron | making something that satisfy trekkies though, is a lot harder than making something that satisfy star wars fans |
| 18:24.08 | Amarande | it seems that worlds need very specific attributes to work as an MMO |
| 18:24.10 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, I dunno, I'd be willing to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt here |
| 18:24.15 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: its a niche market, and there's no one niche that everyone likes |
| 18:24.23 | Amarande | there are many, many awesome worlds that work great as novels, even work great as small-scale RP like pen and paper or MUDs |
| 18:24.29 | NeoTron | I will give them the benefit of doubt too... doubt of their ability to succeed that is |
| 18:24.32 | Amarande | but they would clearly epic fail as MMOs |
| 18:24.41 | ZorbaTHut | the thing about Cryptic is that they're not retarded. and most MMORPG studios are. :) |
| 18:24.49 | NeoTron | if it turns out a good game AND they succeed, all the better of course |
| 18:25.01 | Trixer | I used to own a MUD back int he day that was an airship based mud. |
| 18:25.16 | Trixer | I would love to see an mmo done well that would be airships but it would be so hard to do correctly. |
| 18:25.22 | Amarande | hmm, also apparently a ridiculously below me in levels basilisk is trying to nom nom on me :| |
| 18:25.27 | Cidan | I used to own a PvP MUD back in the day |
| 18:25.30 | Cidan | It's actually still up |
| 18:25.34 | NeoTron | I am likewise hoping, but not expecting, great things from the stargate mmo |
| 18:25.37 | Trixer | Nice Cidan |
| 18:25.50 | Trixer | I am semi looking forward to Guildwars 2 |
| 18:26.06 | Trixer | I think if they take what guildwars has and make it more expansive |
| 18:26.06 | Cidan | I am too, full world movement, no more instance based worlds |
| 18:26.08 | Trixer | it will be very fun |
| 18:26.10 | Cidan | and you can jump! |
| 18:26.11 | Cidan | lol |
| 18:26.14 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: I have been alpha/beta testing several MMO's in the past and it's usually pretty grimp |
| 18:26.17 | NeoTron | grim even |
| 18:26.19 | Trixer | lol yeah Cidan jumping rocks! |
| 18:26.37 | Trixer | Neo: Yeah beta and alphaing mmos is not nearly as kewl as other games. |
| 18:26.53 | Trixer | I worked for a company called RealmWare for a while |
| 18:27.20 | Trixer | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:27.27 | NeoTron | one of them failed before shipping (and I can see why, the game was overdue and not even close to being ready), one pretty much was a failure as of shipping but I played it live for a month |
| 18:27.29 | Trixer | and they are creating a pretty good mmorpg engine |
| 18:27.48 | Trixer | so who saw the whole age of conan thing sucking? *raises hand* me me |
| 18:27.56 | Cidan | Eh |
| 18:28.01 | Cidan | I wanted to try the game |
| 18:28.06 | Cidan | I think not having a demo really hurt them. |
| 18:28.06 | Trixer | dont |
| 18:28.11 | Cidan | I won't |
| 18:28.13 | Trixer | no the game just sucks |
| 18:28.18 | Trixer | really.. |
| 18:28.20 | NeoTron | most MMO's don't have demos initially |
| 18:28.39 | NeoTron | I also beta tested Star Wars Galaxies for 2 years.. live. :P |
| 18:28.59 | Trixer | why arent you in theopy? |
| 18:29.05 | Trixer | theorpy |
| 18:29.09 | Trixer | however you spell it damnit! |
| 18:29.12 | Cidan | oh SWG. |
| 18:29.13 | NeoTron | the main thing with World of Warcraft isn't that it's the best game ever... only that no other MMO i've tried comes close to it |
| 18:29.16 | Tem | therapy |
| 18:29.16 | Cidan | OH OH OH OH OH |
| 18:29.19 | Olorin | shame DAoC didnt get further expansions, the questing was so much more involving than WoW |
| 18:29.20 | Cidan | KOTOR MMO |
| 18:29.23 | Trixer | well the thing about WoW |
| 18:29.24 | Cidan | KOTOR MMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 18:29.26 | NeoTron | Cidan: hopeful |
| 18:29.29 | Trixer | is that its very easy to play really.. |
| 18:29.30 | Cidan | Me too! |
| 18:29.41 | NightHawkTheSane | see, now THAT could actually be good. |
| 18:29.42 | Trixer | Theres nothing at all unique about it besides its graphics look |
| 18:29.42 | Cidan | Bioware == Gods, well, when they don't make games for the 360. |
| 18:29.46 | mikma | teo-rap |
| 18:29.48 | mikma | yo yo yo yo |
| 18:29.53 | NeoTron | I loved the premise of SWG. I enjoyed playing it... |
| 18:30.08 | Trixer | I really think the marvel super heros game coming out the mmo will be good |
| 18:30.21 | Amarande | Like when it comes to things that could potentially work in MMO worlds, and worlds that it outs - |
| 18:30.23 | Cidan | I think Champions Online might be decent. |
| 18:30.23 | NeoTron | Trixer: the unique thing is that it's polished, solid, works well, expandable.. i.e the quality and feel is superior |
| 18:30.27 | Trixer | City of heros/villians I loved being able to design costumes and shit.. but then you started playing the gamea nd you were like WTF |
| 18:30.32 | KarlKFI | god how many mmo's are there, and don't they all know they can't all be blizzard? |
| 18:30.42 | Cidan | Trixer: I gave up after I got flying at level... 16? |
| 18:30.46 | NeoTron | and the less realistic graphics style makes it more realistic lookign (go figure) |
| 18:30.50 | Amarande | * World can't be too adult. If you do you'll really learn about how the game experience changes during online play. (Kushiel, Black Jewels, Dark-Hunters, probably several others fail this litmus) |
| 18:30.56 | Trixer | yeah Cidan something like that |
| 18:31.06 | Cidan | actually |
| 18:31.08 | Trixer | Neo: I agree I have wanted to play SWG, but everyone tells me to run from it. So I have been scared. |
| 18:31.10 | NightHawkTheSane | KarlKFI: too many, and no, not nearly enough realize that :P |
| 18:31.11 | NeoTron | Trixer: indeed. WTF I'm clearing the exact same building ... agani? |
| 18:31.12 | Cidan | I gave up after I did Positron |
| 18:31.30 | Cidan | 9 hours for a quest chain that you can't stop or quit or invite new people to if someone leaves == rofl, no, done. |
| 18:31.32 | Amarande | * World needs to be fairly high-magic and allow for spammed healing spells or you can't have MMO style battles (Kushiel doesn't have enough magic; Wheel of Time would fail here also, because there's fairly severe limits as to how much healing can be used in a period of time, plus healing heavily fatigues the target) |
| 18:31.36 | NeoTron | Trixer: well NOW I think you should be scared... ;-) it's not what it used to be. I never played the newest reinvention though |
| 18:31.58 | Trixer | Karl: theres a shit load, and really what made blizzard so popular was timing more then anything, the fact they got int here and got EQs raid player base.. theres nothign special about WoW besides they had great timing. |
| 18:31.58 | Amarande | * World needs to allow for all players to have a balanced power boost (leveling) over time (Black Jewels fails hard, here, in particular) |
| 18:32.35 | NeoTron | Trixer: ah but EQ2 had even better timing, they launcher earlier |
| 18:32.41 | NeoTron | the problem is EQ2 wasn't nearly as good as WoW |
| 18:32.52 | Trixer | Eq2 didnt launch anywhere near WoW |
| 18:32.55 | Cidan | The world looked... odd, in EQ2. |
| 18:33.02 | NeoTron | Trixer: err. what? |
| 18:33.03 | Cidan | What are you talking about? |
| 18:33.07 | Trixer | erm? |
| 18:33.10 | Cidan | EQ2 and WoW launched at almost the same time. |
| 18:33.12 | Olorin | EQ2 was fine but for people who liked to solo a fair bit couldnt easily cause heroic mobs were scattered all over |
| 18:33.14 | NeoTron | EQ2 laucnhed ~= the same as WoW open beta |
| 18:33.14 | Trixer | are you sure? |
| 18:33.18 | Cidan | Yes. |
| 18:33.18 | NeoTron | yes |
| 18:33.20 | *** join/#wowuidev keias (i=saiek@c-69-245-244-213.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 18:33.21 | mikma | lol, new Star Trek movie |
| 18:33.27 | Dashkal | meh, wtb blacksmithing 2h sword comparable to the titansteel destroyer |
| 18:33.31 | Trixer | wow im lame |
| 18:33.32 | Trixer | my bad |
| 18:33.36 | NeoTron | the open beta happened almost surely due to the EQ2 launch which was a month or so off retail launch |
| 18:33.41 | Amarande | Dashkal: I still say wtb flying mount that works in old world |
| 18:33.56 | Cidan | Blizzard undermined Sony, EQ2 was launched, then on the SAME DAY, WoW had Open Beta |
| 18:33.57 | Trixer | Ama: not happening "old world" is set up wrong for flying mounts |
| 18:33.59 | Dashkal | Amarande: never fucking ever. I do not want to be ganked from teh sky at 30 |
| 18:34.04 | Cidan | It destroyed Sony |
| 18:34.10 | Cidan | It was a brilliant move by Blizzard |
| 18:34.11 | NeoTron | speaking ow WoW though, is anyone somewhat disappointed with WotLK initial itemization? |
| 18:34.18 | mikma | http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/startrek/ |
| 18:34.24 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: define initial itemization? |
| 18:34.34 | NeoTron | Naxxramas, heroics and crafting give the same level of gear |
| 18:34.41 | Trixer | I want a good space sim like freaking crap what was it called |
| 18:34.45 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: ah, not at all, thats one thing i specifically like |
| 18:34.50 | NeoTron | within a week or two I'm almost fully epiced out in the best gear I can get and so on |
| 18:34.50 | Trixer | it was put out initliy by microsoft to test directx |
| 18:34.54 | Trixer | Allegiance! |
| 18:35.00 | Trixer | I loved that game so much |
| 18:35.07 | Cidan | I'm disappointed with WotLK as a whole; the world is amazing, and fun, but the items and loot, bleh. It's like they took the best part of Burning Crusade, and threw it out the window, but fixed the bad parts of Burning Crusade. |
| 18:35.20 | NeoTron | or perhaps, the main issue I have is that theer's no harder content available except a single encounter in malygos |
| 18:35.30 | NeoTron | it's like they launched BC without raids entirely |
| 18:35.32 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: i like it because it gives you several routes to get to the same gear point |
| 18:35.37 | ZorbaTHut | on the other hand, I fully expect pug raids to happen regularly in Wrath, no matter how crummy your server is |
| 18:35.45 | NeoTron | but it removes the accomplishment factor |
| 18:35.47 | Dashkal | eh, go finish the obsidian sanctum with three up in 10 ;p |
| 18:35.56 | Trixer | Really I just WTB world pvp in wow |
| 18:36.07 | Cidan | indeed Trixer, indeed. |
| 18:36.07 | NeoTron | Dashkal: which is close to impossible without t8 level gear (i.e 25 man raiding now, 10 man ulduar gear) |
| 18:36.10 | Dashkal | Trixer: never gonna happen. There's no appropriate way to reward people |
| 18:36.14 | Cidan | I wish there were no battlegrounds. D= |
| 18:36.14 | Trixer | I want to be partying with like 5 of my buds and be jumped by a party thats close to our level |
| 18:36.17 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* only if you choose to feel like it's removed. the accomplishment is STILL there, you're the only one stopping yourself from feeling good about it :P |
| 18:36.20 | Trixer | having to battle it out over a single quest mob!~ |
| 18:36.34 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: it's been done already.. >.> |
| 18:36.38 | NeoTron | I am worried they will have a large lack of content in WotLK |
| 18:36.50 | Trixer | Dash: Isnt the feeling of your enemys skull cracking and giving way under your boot reward enough? |
| 18:36.53 | NightHawkTheSane | nah |
| 18:36.56 | Dashkal | Tier 7 was easy intentionally. If tier 8 is as easy, we have a problem |
| 18:36.58 | NeoTron | unless they plan additional tiers of dungeons or solely rely on achievements as the "content" to keep people busy |
| 18:36.58 | Lunessa | ... lack of content? |
| 18:37.01 | Dashkal | Trixer: no, no it isn't |
| 18:37.02 | NightHawkTheSane | I think you're confusing openness of content with amount of content |
| 18:37.09 | Lunessa | lack of content. WTF are you smoking? |
| 18:37.17 | NeoTron | when you do all content in one week, there's a lack of content |
| 18:37.23 | Trixer | Dash: well thats the problem we need more people who feel that way. |
| 18:37.33 | Dashkal | Trixer: go check out war :p |
| 18:37.38 | NightHawkTheSane | no, when YOU do all content in one week. 99% of the player base is still working on it. |
| 18:37.40 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, there's only lack of content if people are powerleveling to 80 and using their beta knowledge to burn through all the dungeons |
| 18:37.43 | Trixer | I wonder if I could get on the forums and rally people together to all transfer to a server with the intent of world pvp! |
| 18:37.47 | ZorbaTHut | I don't even have my flying mount back yet |
| 18:37.55 | Amarande | hmm |
| 18:37.56 | Dashkal | <-- Isn't even in heroics yet. LOTS of content to go |
| 18:37.58 | Amarande | all I can say for explore tanaris |
| 18:38.05 | Amarande | is "light, am I glad for GoUB" |
| 18:38.20 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: err wrong. all dungeons were "burned through" the first time in beta or live. leveling dungeons are just there for gear, they offer no challenge |
| 18:38.22 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, managed to find the spot? |
| 18:38.30 | Dashkal | Our guild is only just now capable of even starting on them. We don't have enough for naxx yet. |
| 18:38.31 | Amarande | Zorba: that was Silithus, yeah I found that |
| 18:38.36 | ZorbaTHut | ah okay :) |
| 18:38.51 | Amarande | Tanaris, I got irritated because I was missing that far-out beach at the south end, again |
| 18:38.53 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, they offer challenge if you're not overgeared and overleveled |
| 18:38.56 | Dashkal | Though I'm hit capped and 16k in dps gear, so I know I'm geared enough for heroics |
| 18:38.58 | Amarande | but GoUB gives 20% swim speed boost at least |
| 18:39.00 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: incorrect |
| 18:39.01 | NeoTron | :) |
| 18:39.01 | ZorbaTHut | and not reading all the FAQs :) |
| 18:39.03 | Trixer | Lmao "More like King of Bitch! We will have your ass on farm status by the end of jan" |
| 18:39.08 | Dashkal | stupid lack of available DK weapons :( |
| 18:39.10 | ZorbaTHut | I've been going through them with friends two levels under the dungeon recommended level, completely blind |
| 18:39.12 | ZorbaTHut | it's been fun |
| 18:39.13 | Dashkal | I need that damn destroyer |
| 18:39.22 | ZorbaTHut | the occasional wipe on a boss that does something totally unexpected, us figuring out how to deal with it |
| 18:39.27 | mikma | lolololo underworld |
| 18:39.39 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: honestly, unless you've got ALL the heroic/raid/heroic raid achievements, there's still content to do. :P |
| 18:39.43 | NeoTron | heroics are also easi. some achievements are fricking hard however |
| 18:39.47 | Trixer | I would like to see a pretty good vampire/wearwolves type mmo haha |
| 18:39.59 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, I feel like you're coming at this from the viewpoint of a three-raid-per-week sunwell-geared player |
| 18:40.02 | ZorbaTHut | and most people are not that player |
| 18:40.08 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: I leveled a DK |
| 18:40.12 | ZorbaTHut | hell, I'm not that player |
| 18:40.13 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 18:40.13 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 18:40.13 | NightHawkTheSane | and, once more, 99% of the player base is still working on heroics. So a lack of content for YOU is irrelevent |
| 18:40.17 | Trixer | NightHawk: not all of us feel awesome about having a little thing that tells us and everyone we did someting that really isnt that important |
| 18:40.31 | ZorbaTHut | trixer, so you don't like World of Warcraft, I take it? ;) |
| 18:40.38 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: I'm pretty sure there have been several pug clears of naxx on most servers by now |
| 18:40.53 | Trixer | Zorba: No I like wow its fun.... but I did the whole achievement system in guildwars with titles. |
| 18:40.56 | Dashkal | I'm pretty sure my server has finished naxx... but really... So? |
| 18:41.02 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, sure, but what do you mean by "pug" |
| 18:41.04 | Trixer | everyones like omg this totally new unique achivement system rocks! |
| 18:41.08 | ZorbaTHut | you mean "guys who powerleveled to 80" |
| 18:41.12 | NeoTron | "LFG Naxx" |
| 18:41.18 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: if by "pug clears" you mean, various people from pre-existing raiding guilds clearing naxx, then yes, sure. |
| 18:41.21 | ZorbaTHut | most people are not at 80. most people have not stepped into heroics. most people have certainly not stepped into naxx. |
| 18:41.22 | Dashkal | erm, strike that, I saw the malygos achievement spam by. We're pretty much done 10 man. dunno about 25 |
| 18:41.25 | NeoTron | getting 80 by now != power level |
| 18:41.30 | NeoTron | getting 80 in the first week, sure |
| 18:41.30 | Dashkal | But still, so? I haven't |
| 18:42.00 | Lunessa | Dashkal: Didn't I make you one in beta? |
| 18:42.05 | Amarande | I'd probably be pretty close to 80 if I hadn't been focusing on explore achievements |
| 18:42.11 | Amarande | but I'm getting those out of the way first |
| 18:42.11 | Dashkal | Lunessa: a titansteel destroyer? No |
| 18:42.18 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, I know a bunch of people who started playing WoW a year ago, and are stepping into Outland for the first time |
| 18:42.23 | Amarande | unless I -really- find Darnassus too well guarded, in which case I'll leave the last bit of Kalimdor till 80 |
| 18:42.24 | ZorbaTHut | yes, Outland |
| 18:42.26 | Lunessa | Must have been Tem. |
| 18:42.26 | ZorbaTHut | most players are still not at 80 :P |
| 18:42.42 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: ... so? |
| 18:43.05 | Dashkal | Tem is much more likely, he was tanking naxx. I stopped at heroic level. Once I hit the grindy part of 80 I lost interest |
| 18:43.06 | NightHawkTheSane | so, the current content is designed for "most people". |
| 18:43.08 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: you can hardly call them average wow players if they aren't 70 within a year of starting. that's not even casual, that's play an hour a week |
| 18:43.19 | ZorbaTHut | casual *is* play an hour a week. |
| 18:43.32 | ZorbaTHut | hell, casual is "play two or three hours a week, at most, on three different characters" |
| 18:43.33 | NeoTron | casual solitare perhaps |
| 18:44.22 | Dashkal | The number of frozen orbs I'm going to need just makes me cry |
| 18:44.30 | NeoTron | I need zero and have like 8 |
| 18:44.34 | ScytheBlade1 | We're already selling them on the AH :) |
| 18:44.45 | NeoTron | since you can just run heroics and use badges to get the gear instead |
| 18:44.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Our excess, that is |
| 18:44.51 | Dashkal | I need 8 and have zero. Mind oyu my smithing is still 75, only been at it a day |
| 18:44.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: it's okay, remember what NeoTron says, if you haven't cleareed every heroic, and have a full stack of orbs, you're not worthy to play the game :D |
| 18:45.07 | NeoTron | Dashkal: crafting is a waste of gold and resources atm |
| 18:45.08 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: that might be slightly exagerated |
| 18:45.14 | ZorbaTHut | dashkal, I bought one for my badass engineer goggles. it was pricey. :( |
| 18:45.19 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, but i enjoy hyperbole. :) |
| 18:45.38 | Dashkal | NeoTron: I don't have access to naxx. It's either I make it myself or drop 5k to buy them |
| 18:45.43 | NeoTron | and frozen orbs are like 100g or something, not very expensive (and not a major part of crafting materials) |
| 18:45.48 | Dashkal | since making them myself also gives me gem slots, I'll do it |
| 18:46.03 | Olorin | the other thing you have to bear in mind is that even when 80 it doesnt mean you have the same gear as those 80 and doing dungeons, many dont have the time or desire to play dungeons, im very relieved that WoTLK didnt end up being EQ Dragons of Norrah expansion, where unless you were already in raid gear you couldnt even survive any of the content.. |
| 18:46.31 | NeoTron | Olorin: seriously "don't have time doing dungeons"? |
| 18:46.33 | NeoTron | they take 20-30m to clear |
| 18:46.42 | NeoTron | if you don't have time to do that, why the heck do you play an mmo? |
| 18:46.55 | Dashkal | NeoTron: more like an hour including meta time (group building, afk breaks, real life intrusions) |
| 18:47.00 | NeoTron | it's not like it's the 2-5 hrs clears of vanilla wow anymore |
| 18:47.04 | Dashkal | which is more time than many people can dedicate to a computer game in a stretch |
| 18:47.13 | Amarande | are the dungeons more -interesting- than BC's at least? |
| 18:47.20 | Dashkal | Amarande: oh hell yes they are |
| 18:47.22 | Amarande | one thing I noticed about BC vs. old world |
| 18:47.28 | NeoTron | Dashkal: yet I bet none of said people have problem dedicating 1-2 hrs watching tv in a stretch |
| 18:47.34 | Dashkal | BC dungeons were hallways with boss breaks |
| 18:47.35 | Amarande | was that BC dungeons were shorter and more rewarding, but old world ones always made my world-building side smile :) |
| 18:48.08 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsoRayne (n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-29.barrettxplore.com) |
| 18:48.10 | Amarande | I think the only BC dungeons I really -liked- were Shadow Labs, Shattered Halls, Black Morass, and the TK instances |
| 18:48.12 | Dashkal | NeoTron: O.o That statement cannot be backed up, making it pointless |
| 18:48.22 | Amarande | although I never saw much of Coilfang |
| 18:48.42 | Dashkal | BM was interesting, but my guild was terrified of it (we had naxx on farm, but nobody would do a heroic BM group O.o) |
| 18:48.54 | AbsoRayne | So how come when you go to WoWModelViewers homepage, it has a broken redirect to WoWInterface? O_o |
| 18:49.04 | Olorin | I play an mmo because i like to play duo game with friends, grouping with people in WoW is so hit and miss its often easier not to bother.. thats my way of playing not that im suggesting their shouldnt be content for all play styles as you at least appear to be |
| 18:49.18 | Lopeppeppy | Hai2U, AbsoRayne! |
| 18:49.25 | AbsoRayne | Lopeppeppy: HAI! |
| 18:49.32 | AbsoRayne | I am in the land of Canada ^_^ |
| 18:49.37 | Lopeppeppy | I've been looking to give you feedback on Boxes for days! It did not love me! |
| 18:49.44 | Dashkal | I try VERY hard not to pug. My success rate hovers around 50%... I'd rather not bother with such dismal odds |
| 18:49.47 | Lopeppeppy | But if you're in CA, I'll tell you when you get back. :) |
| 18:49.52 | Dashkal | AbsoRayne: where abouts are you? |
| 18:50.17 | AbsoRayne | Lopeppeppy: :( Sorry, I left Tuesday. I just got here last night |
| 18:50.20 | AbsoRayne | Drove out |
| 18:50.24 | AbsoRayne | Dashkal: Edmonton |
| 18:50.26 | AbsoRayne | Well |
| 18:50.27 | AbsoRayne | Leduc |
| 18:50.29 | AbsoRayne | Outside of Edmonton |
| 18:50.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:50.37 | Lopeppeppy | it's all good, dear. You have fun, let me know when you're back in the ickyStates. |
| 18:50.39 | Dashkal | mmm, good ways. Vancouver |
| 18:50.47 | AbsoRayne | Lopeppeppy: Im here for good. :P |
| 18:50.52 | AbsoRayne | Feedback plz |
| 18:52.18 | Lopeppeppy | It did not install right at all. The folder for renaming to character was actually called "rename to realm", but I'm smart enough to know that was on the character level. But was it really just another copy of the the realm folder? 'cause eepanels did not install pretty boxes or lines or nothin'. And EBB was all fubared. |
| 18:52.23 | Dashkal | mmm, there's a ton of crafted pvp gear this time around |
| 18:53.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (i=TC@cpe-76-169-230-188.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 18:53.36 | Dashkal | Yes, this is the first time I've really looked at the crafting lists |
| 18:53.42 | Tem | Lopeppeppy, those kinds of users make my brain hurt |
| 18:53.48 | Dashkal | BS gear goes for so much on my server it was almost never worth the money |
| 18:53.58 | Tem | no one sells the BS gear on my server |
| 18:54.11 | Tem | I had to buy mats and seek people out for anything but the cobalt gloves |
| 18:54.11 | AbsoRayne | Lopeppeppy: Really? I was worried about that :/ |
| 18:54.31 | Tem | (which I replaced within an hour of getting them with the nexus quest reward XD) |
| 18:54.36 | Dashkal | Once I get up to level, I intend to sell. If the trend holds they'll be again selling for way more than the mats are worth, even for trained crap |
| 18:54.49 | AbsoRayne | Ill have to take that version down then. |
| 18:55.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:55.32 | Dashkal | I'm hoping that by the time I get up to 450 the AH will have calmed enough that it's worth trying to sell big ticket items |
| 18:56.13 | Dashkal | If not, well, I can just sell the damn ore |
| 18:56.16 | Cidan | lol@OJ Simpson got 15 years |
| 18:56.18 | Lopeppeppy | AbsoRayne, ya. I have a screenshot on my home computer, I'll host it up so I can link it, after I go home. |
| 18:56.26 | Lopeppeppy | Cidan, that's awesome! |
| 18:56.38 | AbsoRayne | Lopeppeppy: I think im just going to stop Updating Boxes. Its not that popular anyway. Go back to just Lite and Orig. |
| 18:56.42 | Cidan | Indeed; the man is crazy as shit at this point. |
| 18:56.43 | Cidan | lol |
| 18:57.11 | pastamancer | I'm fairly certain the answer is 'no' but could someone do me a favor and group with someone doing one of the dragon dailys (wyrmrest or aces high) and let me know if 'UnitExists("party1vehicle") returns true? |
| 18:57.14 | Tem | the hell do you mean "at this point" |
| 18:57.15 | Lopeppeppy | I'm sorry, AbsoRayne. It might be because that other folder really was a copy of the realm folder and not the character folder? |
| 18:57.19 | Tem | The main is crazy as shit. |
| 18:57.24 | Tem | s/main/man. |
| 18:57.28 | Tem | s/./// |
| 18:57.41 | Cidan | s/./\// |
| 18:57.45 | Tem | probably |
| 18:57.54 | Cidan | lol |
| 18:58.21 | Cidan | s/lol/loll/ |
| 18:58.24 | Cidan | hmm.. |
| 18:58.25 | Corr-work | the amount of caring i have about what O does is less than the amount of poo in my butt right now |
| 18:58.31 | Cidan | I wonder... |
| 18:58.59 | Thunder_Child | ~fail tem |
| 18:59.00 | purl | tem, you Fail! |
| 18:59.19 | Cidan | s/I wonder.../s\/I wonder...\/lol\// |
| 18:59.23 | Cidan | lol |
| 18:59.25 | Cidan | nope |
| 19:00.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@85.24.18.152.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 19:00.14 | Amarande | hmm |
| 19:00.28 | Amarande | do elites have a larger aggro radius than normals of the same level? |
| 19:00.59 | Cidan | Not that I know of, Amarande. |
| 19:01.05 | Corr-work | i don't remember anything like that either |
| 19:02.02 | Amarande | hmm, I could swear they do, either that or I'm misjudging distances badly |
| 19:02.08 | Amarande | I'm thinking of Theramore vs. Tyr's Hand |
| 19:02.25 | Amarande | Theramore is guarded by lv.57 normals, who ignored me when I rode in to pick up the exploration credit at 70 |
| 19:02.40 | Amarande | Tyr's Hand chapel is guarded by lv.55-57 elites, who ALWAYS aggro when I try to go in |
| 19:02.43 | NeoTron | individual mobs seem to have variable aggro radius |
| 19:03.02 | Amarande | Of course, I have to go in there every time I go to Tyr's Hand |
| 19:03.06 | NeoTron | some things seems to aggro from way the heck away |
| 19:03.07 | Amarande | can't go there without killing every Scarlet Archmage |
| 19:03.41 | Amarande | Just for the chance at Crusader enchant, of course |
| 19:04.09 | Cidan | Yay |
| 19:04.19 | Cidan | Obama will make it so it's not illegal to visit Cuba |
| 19:04.21 | Cidan | Fucking finally. |
| 19:04.30 | Dashkal | The Tyr's hand mobs have an aggro radius of a mile. They're stealth detectors too |
| 19:04.31 | Amarande | I'm surprised how few people try to farm the Archmages, though |
| 19:04.56 | Amarande | At least at 70 I don't have any trouble with them. Except for the one time I got slaughtered because I was standing in the wrong spot and the Crimson Courier patrol got me |
| 19:04.56 | NeoTron | why would someone farm level 55-57 mobs? |
| 19:05.04 | Cidan | cloth? |
| 19:05.07 | Amarande | NeoTron: Crusader enchant drops ONLY from two specific mobs |
| 19:05.09 | NeoTron | plenty of ppl did it at leevl 60 |
| 19:05.23 | Amarande | Scarlet Archmages in Tyr's Hand, and Scarlet Spellbinders in the tower in WPL on the way to Hearthglen |
| 19:05.26 | NeoTron | so ... why would people want the crusader enchant now? :P |
| 19:05.41 | Amarande | NeoTron: Crusader's actually going to get MORE popular |
| 19:05.47 | Amarande | NeoTron: Heirloom weapons |
| 19:05.51 | Lopeppeppy | Leveling |
| 19:05.55 | Amarande | Heirloom weapons can not be enchanted with anything that has a minimum level requirement |
| 19:06.13 | Amarande | which means only old world enchants work on them basically |
| 19:06.16 | Lopeppeppy | Completeness of having a full set of all available enchants. |
| 19:06.31 | Amarande | Also, crusader is still the enchant of choice for 19's and 29's twinkers |
| 19:06.42 | Dashkal | mmm, that reminds me, need to get a few weapon velliums to our Crusader enchater |
| 19:06.51 | Dashkal | and orbs |
| 19:06.58 | Amarande | Dashkal: you only have one enchanter in guild who can do that? |
| 19:07.05 | Dashkal | one for sure, I think two |
| 19:07.23 | Amarande | we only have 42 people in our guild on Turalyon, only a small number of them are really active, and yet we still have two people who can do crusader :) |
| 19:07.23 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy_ (n=IceChat7@c-71-58-3-50.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:07.24 | Dashkal | I just want to stock up so I can enchant heirloom items |
| 19:07.43 | Dashkal | He started enchanting AFTER BC, so he only has crusader out of OCD |
| 19:07.48 | Amarande | Both of them thanks to me, really |
| 19:08.30 | Amarande | the first copy of Crusader I found because back in the day, I insisted I wasn't going to go to Outland on my warlock till I got my dreadsteed mount, which I'd already invested most of the gold into so I really couldn't just go back and buy a regular chocobo |
| 19:09.05 | Amarande | So, I figured I'd hang out in a spot where I would get experience, be close enough to Scholomance to be ready when a group became available, and where something shiney could drop |
| 19:09.16 | Amarande | And so I started farming the Spellbinders over and over while I waited |
| 19:09.19 | Amarande | One dropped Crusader. |
| 19:09.42 | Amarande | The other copy of Crusader I got during my stint on Quel'dorei, by luck from an Archmage |
| 19:09.58 | Amarande | since I happened to be in Tyr's Hand, I was actually going to clear out another building but decided to farm the archmages first |
| 19:10.08 | AbsoRayne | Lopeppeppy: Im really not sure, ill have to look |
| 19:10.23 | Trixer | and what does crusader do? |
| 19:10.35 | Lunessa | I'm an ass. I was going to help someone until I read thier .sig "I'm a godless commie, and I hate everything Apple. " |
| 19:10.36 | Amarande | (specifically, I was doing part of the mount quest on my pally that involved going there ... I couldn't handle it on my pally, so I had her run in to where she needed to be and die, then I had my 70 lock clear out the building and switch back to the pally and rez to get the item I needed) |
| 19:10.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 19:10.57 | Amarande | Trixer: Melee proc, chance to heal you for some HP and give you a 15 second +100 strength boost |
| 19:11.03 | Amarande | +100 up to 60, anyway |
| 19:11.09 | Trixer | lmao thats so lame |
| 19:11.14 | Trixer | up to 60 crap |
| 19:11.14 | Amarande | it starts getting lower after that, it's +60 at 70 and I'm not sure at 80 |
| 19:11.57 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, I'm not sure I'd help them either. |
| 19:12.41 | Amarande | I've never understood anti-Apple hatred |
| 19:12.58 | Amarande | tbh, the only thing I can dislike about Apple is that their stuff is usually too expensive compared to equivalent things |
| 19:13.12 | Trixer | Agreed Ama |
| 19:13.16 | Amarande | like, that 30" apple monitor would be pure <3 if I could afford it |
| 19:13.20 | Lopeppeppy | Mac animations give me headaches |
| 19:13.20 | pastamancer | Amarande: jealousy! |
| 19:13.20 | Amarande | but 1800$ :( |
| 19:13.34 | Trixer | Though I havent every really spent any time with Mac products besides the IPod which I quickly returned to the store for my sexah ass Zune.. but thats not the point. |
| 19:13.35 | Amarande | and I already have a debt hole to dig myself out of |
| 19:13.45 | Amarande | not that I plan to save all that much after getting out of debt unless I need to save up for something, though |
| 19:13.52 | Amarande | since I've figured out that savings accounts are pretty much a raw deal |
| 19:14.04 | Amarande | problem with savings accounts: most of them have an APY that's less than inflation rate |
| 19:14.15 | Amarande | so if you use them, eventually you have more money than you did before ... and it buys less than it did when you started |
| 19:14.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (n=Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 19:15.17 | Lunessa | lolzune |
| 19:15.30 | Trixer | Ama: Your completly correct |
| 19:15.38 | Trixer | Lune: Dis on my zune and ill cut you! |
| 19:16.04 | foxlit | Zune. |
| 19:16.07 | foxlit | /point /laugh |
| 19:16.17 | Trixer | Why dont you guys like them? |
| 19:16.20 | Trixer | I fucking love mine! |
| 19:17.41 | Lopeppeppy | Short term stocks and bonds are good... but right now, I recommend just putting it in the mattress |
| 19:18.10 | Dashkal | Oh hell, I'm gonna start long term soon. Buy when it's cheap |
| 19:18.47 | Trixer | Long term market is semi blah at the moment. |
| 19:19.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Godzmack- (n=Godzmack@85-220-10-51.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is) |
| 19:19.14 | Trixer | Theres other ways to invest your money then the long term market that has only a slightly higher risk and a much higher reward for the time. |
| 19:19.26 | Dashkal | "Long term" and "at the moment" are kind of contradictory |
| 19:19.26 | NightHawkTheSane | actually, now's a decent time to invest |
| 19:19.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c5e105779fed8d96) |
| 19:19.45 | Trixer | Dash: I agree to a point but blah just do your home work... |
| 19:19.52 | NightHawkTheSane | and by decent i mean great |
| 19:19.54 | Trixer | NightHawk: Depends on what, how much, and how long. |
| 19:20.09 | Dashkal | I have. And I keep seing indications that I should get my ass in gear and invest long term (5 years min) |
| 19:20.14 | Dashkal | preferably 20+ |
| 19:20.23 | Lunessa | Trixer: I don't hate the Zune. I just don't think much of it because it isn't the product I want for any number of reasons. |
| 19:20.23 | NightHawkTheSane | well, yeah. |
| 19:20.56 | NightHawkTheSane | short term investments aren't really ideal right now. but now's an amazing time to get in to long term investments if you can |
| 19:21.06 | Trixer | I am biased agsent long term stock market investments... I find that you could put your money many other places like a good IPO and make much more money in the time. |
| 19:21.40 | Dashkal | Meh, hopefully they'll get the Unholy DK disease issue fixed soonish. We have lots of unholy DKs and I don't envy our raid leader having to tell them that only one can come at a time... |
| 19:22.09 | Dashkal | IPO... I have s little knowledge there I won't begin to comment |
| 19:22.35 | Dashkal | When I actually have the cash to invest, I'll look more deeply into it. That means after christmas |
| 19:22.53 | NeoTron | I tried frost tank for a brief period of time and I pretty much think frost is not for me |
| 19:23.38 | Trixer | Dash: Coming from a semi successfull invester my self, and my mentor is an extremely successfull investor. I dont really think long term market is a good place to invest unless you have lots of money to invest in it. |
| 19:24.14 | Dashkal | With the coming changes I'm pretty sure I'll never have to find out. Blood is getting an AOE boost |
| 19:24.16 | Trixer | If not, you would really be better off finding someone with an IP selling start up shares, doing your home work and invest in that. AT least then you know pretty soon if your going to make money or if you need to get out. |
| 19:24.29 | Dashkal | This is true |
| 19:24.40 | Trixer | IPO* |
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| 19:24.50 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:25.05 | Trixer | I have seen people long term invest for 10+ years have their money tied up only to use look it later |
| 19:25.12 | Dashkal | hmm, I didn't know the stacking issue was so widespread. Hopefully whatever fix they come up with will work for locks, priests, etc |
| 19:25.32 | Lopeppeppy | Stacking sucks. Buffing items should all stack like symbol of kings does. |
| 19:26.10 | Dashkal | Lopeppeppy: I'm referring to the issue where things like a DKs ebon plague can be applied by only one unholy DK. Stacking unholy DKs is harmful because of that (all but one will have gimped DPS) |
| 19:27.00 | Trixer | So any one thought of anything that might make a new cool hero class? |
| 19:27.11 | Trixer | ohh also to make a dk do you have to have the 55 on your server |
| 19:27.12 | ZorbaTHut | trixer, forum whiner |
| 19:27.20 | ZorbaTHut | with the ability to bend the laws of the game around it |
| 19:27.34 | ZorbaTHut | I guess it might be tough to work in lore-wise. |
| 19:31.18 | pastamancer | Cide, Cidan, Shirik and anyone else who works on unit frames, I'd like to hear from you about vehicle support in unitframe addons. http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?p=256810#post256810 |
| 19:32.40 | Trixer | Zorbra: pure comdedy right there! |
| 19:38.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Syzgyn (n=no@24-240-17-145.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 19:42.13 | Amarande | Lopeppeppy: I'm not sure about the idea of buffing items stacking anymore, though |
| 19:42.31 | Amarande | It seems like Blizzard is planning on gradually phasing out all buffing items, if the sharpening stone and wizard oil decision is any indication |
| 19:42.54 | Amarande | Any word on whether Flasks or Elixirs are next on the chopping block? |
| 19:42.57 | Lopeppeppy | Yup. Because they are giving those properties to classes, or to the weapons themselves, or havens forbid they should give holy paladins some mp/5 gear. |
| 19:44.06 | Amarande | I think the problem with holy paladins is their unique state now among plate wearers |
| 19:44.21 | Amarande | Tankadins and retadins now itemize like warriors and death knights |
| 19:44.34 | Amarande | the only plate wearing build that really uses spell power *or* mp5 anymore is holydins |
| 19:44.41 | foxlit | wonder what the latest round of rolling restarts was for |
| 19:44.41 | Dashkal | I'd be really surprised if flasks/elixirs ever go. Considering that would mean removing a profession entirely |
| 19:44.51 | Amarande | Dashkal: yeah, flasks and elixirs might be safe |
| 19:45.01 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: just to annoy people who get pissed off by that |
| 19:45.17 | Amarande | otherwise, alchemy is completely useless, seeing as potions have been relegated to being an 'occasional emergency button' rather than a steady part of most battle strategy |
| 19:45.26 | Dashkal | exactly |
| 19:47.06 | foxlit | Transmutes |
| 19:47.06 | Amarande | foxlit: no one is going to take a profession just to be able to sell one transmute every day or two |
| 19:47.06 | Lopeppeppy | Alchemy is pretty useless, yup. |
| 19:47.08 | Dashkal | Amarande: oh no, some would do it, and charge obscene prices |
| 19:47.15 | foxlit | Amarande: then someone who does will get obscene golds :) |
| 19:47.22 | Amarande | which would be overall disastrous, Dashkal |
| 19:47.26 | Dashkal | exactly |
| 19:47.38 | Dashkal | so flasks/elixirs are likely safe |
| 19:47.41 | NightHawkTheSane | not if more people did it to reduce prices :P |
| 19:47.44 | Amarande | because anything that needs whatever the heck the northrend version of primal might is would be insanely expensive too |
| 19:47.58 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: I'd rather pay the prices that take a profession I could only use to lower the prices :p |
| 19:48.05 | Amarande | what is the northrend primal might, anyway? |
| 19:48.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: so you're only creating your own problem, i fail to see the issue? :P |
| 19:48.35 | Dashkal | Well, about the only time I even care that elchemy exists is for my meta gem. Very rare thing |
| 19:49.13 | Dashkal | I don't use elixirs. Either we're wiping and they're useless or it's on farm and I don't need them. |
| 19:49.28 | Amarande | Oddly, enough, come to think of it |
| 19:49.31 | Shirik | woot |
| 19:49.37 | Amarande | eliminating elixirs might even LOWER might and meta gem prices |
| 19:49.44 | Amarande | I'm thinking of it this way |
| 19:49.45 | Shirik | Full cleared Nexus, only one left standing: me :D |
| 19:49.50 | Shirik | smite spec ftw |
| 19:49.55 | Amarande | if elixirs were eliminated, serious raiders would avoid alchemy |
| 19:49.58 | Dashkal | Converting all elixirs to flask-style buffs (persist through death) and I'd be more interested |
| 19:50.21 | Shirik | If elixirs would be eliminated, I would get rid of alchemy in a heartbeat |
| 19:50.27 | Shirik | I <3 elixirs |
| 19:50.31 | Amarande | which means alchemy would mostly be taken by casuals who mostly do things for which potions are still most useful (soloing and 5-mans with their short boss fights) |
| 19:50.36 | Shirik | there are no good flasks for me |
| 19:50.55 | Amarande | and casuals aren't going to be as serious about making money as serious players, I presume |
| 19:51.44 | Amarande | with the lack of need for so many things now in raiding that used to be necessities (due to the casualification changes in wotlk), casuals' biggest expenses will be one-times ... epic flying and northrend flying |
| 19:52.10 | Lopeppeppy | I don't disagree with that move. But I hate what it did to my favorite profession -- alchemy |
| 19:52.17 | Amarande | after that, I don't really see much reason for the casual player to care much about money other than to finance epic flyers for alts |
| 19:52.32 | Amarande | or for the achievements that amount to 'spend a stupid amount of money' |
| 19:52.40 | Amarande | even those are kinda cheap though |
| 19:52.52 | Amarande | I think someone worked out that it's actually cheaper to earn your albino drake than it is to get epic flying in the first place |
| 19:53.01 | Amarande | unless maybe if you're a Tauren |
| 19:53.05 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: the problem with alchemy though was that it was "too consumable" |
| 19:53.12 | NightHawkTheSane | s/was/is |
| 19:53.19 | Corr-work | why tauren? |
| 19:53.29 | Amarande | Corr: a lot of mounts are closed to tauren |
| 19:53.37 | Amarande | so they'd actually probably have to buy things like the 1600g CE mount |
| 19:53.40 | Lopeppeppy | ... it's a freakin' consumable profession! *laugh* |
| 19:53.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: it is, yes, it's not exactly complex math |
| 19:53.51 | Corr-work | oh, what does it take to earn an albino drake? |
| 19:53.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: my point exactly. ;) |
| 19:53.55 | Amarande | Corr: 50 mounts |
| 19:54.01 | Amarande | they actually had to nerf that achievement, BECAUSE of tauren |
| 19:54.05 | Corr-work | lame |
| 19:54.09 | Lopeppeppy | They should eliminate the glyphs too then, those are consumable. As are gems. |
| 19:54.11 | Amarande | Corr: it used to be 75 |
| 19:54.17 | Corr-work | still lame |
| 19:54.26 | Amarande | but then someone worked out that that was virtually impossible for tauren to reach due to all the mounts they miss out on |
| 19:54.33 | Dashkal | Lopeppeppy: glyphs and gems aren't consumable any more than gear is. alchemy is consumable in that it last at most two hours. |
| 19:54.36 | Lopeppeppy | Easy to get, just buy all of the horses, all of the each level item, you get there quickly. |
| 19:54.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: you miss my point, though. Gems, enchants, and glyphs are consumable, but not strongly so. You don't re-enchant or re-gem after eac fight, or death |
| 19:54.51 | Amarande | I think it came down to something like tauren would have had to either be hardcore raiders or invest hundreds of dollars in real life money to get the albino drake |
| 19:55.08 | Dashkal | Could you imagine if gear wasn't repairable? |
| 19:55.12 | Corr-work | their insistence on gimping tauren mounts is just one of the design decisions i can't understand |
| 19:55.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: but you do have to continually replenish your supply of pots, elixirs, and flasks. The very short duration of them means they MUST be very powerful on an individual basis, else they be entirely overlooked. |
| 19:55.17 | Lopeppeppy | Then they should eliminate alchemy, and offer a quest to alchemists to switch to another profession at the same level, with the same number of recipes. |
| 19:55.31 | Lopeppeppy | We pick which recipes from the list. :) |
| 19:55.37 | Shirik | Agree! |
| 19:55.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: nah, they need to reduce the inherent consumable nature of the profession, add more permanent and semi-permanent items to craft |
| 19:55.49 | Shirik | What's wrong with Alchemy as it is now? |
| 19:55.51 | Shirik | I think it's fine |
| 19:55.52 | Corr-work | farming is not fun. |
| 19:55.57 | Lopeppeppy | No one needs it anymore, Shirik. |
| 19:55.57 | Amarande | Basically, IIRC, reaching 75 mounts on a Tauren, depending on your professions, required either rare raid mounts like the TK phoenix, or obtaining the loot card mounts |
| 19:56.01 | Shirik | I need it :( |
| 19:56.02 | Amarande | and loot card mounts are STUPID expensive on ebay |
| 19:56.09 | Lopeppeppy | So do I, shirik. *sigh* |
| 19:56.18 | Dashkal | Amarande: it did pre-WotLK, but it's much easier now what with the number of WotLK mounts |
| 19:56.21 | Amarande | I've seen the flying TCG mounts go for $700+ |
| 19:56.22 | Corr-work | there's nothing more that needs to be said about consumables and alchemy besides "farming blows" |
| 19:56.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: there's nothing massively wrong with it, really, it's just a very odd thing, because consumables keep getting nerfed, because of how powerful they are. |
| 19:56.30 | Amarande | ridiculous ... I can fly cross-country IRL for less than that |
| 19:56.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (n=mattes@82.242.144.196) |
| 19:56.41 | NightHawkTheSane | by extension, alchemy gets nerfed, because thats what the profession is (currently) all about. |
| 19:56.44 | Shirik | they got nerfed again? |
| 19:56.58 | Amarande | Shirik: slightly |
| 19:57.02 | NightHawkTheSane | nothing new, im just speaking in the general sense |
| 19:57.05 | Amarande | because of potions being mostly for soloers now, as far as I can tell |
| 19:57.42 | Amarande | we're also theorying whether or not elixirs and flasks might be next on the chopping block of consumables |
| 19:57.49 | Lopeppeppy | I'm sure they will be. |
| 19:58.10 | NightHawkTheSane | im sure your both overreacting needlessly |
| 19:58.15 | Amarande | I'm not entirely sure what a good rationale for it would be, anyway |
| 19:58.33 | Amarande | Can't say it would be to save the now high priced herb mats for scribes |
| 19:58.42 | Corr-work | mmm, hard cider. |
| 19:58.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem|work (i=d195b804@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
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| 19:58.46 | Amarande | because that would contradict the fact that there are now what, three professions that all use metal or metal by-products? |
| 19:58.49 | Dashkal | They only way they could do that would be to give alchemy a new crafting style, and I don't think there's really anywhere else to go |
| 19:58.53 | NightHawkTheSane | its too early in the day to drink >< |
| 19:58.55 | Amarande | and nobody does anything to make the metal market less competitive :) |
| 19:59.26 | Amarande | OTOH, you only get on average 1.5-2 herbs per herb node, as a sketchy estimate |
| 19:59.40 | Amarande | whereas many mining nodes give three or more, and 'rich' nodes can give five or more ores |
| 19:59.41 | Dashkal | Inscription also looks inherently bad for anything other than self-buffing. Glyphs are dead cheap and you only need a few. |
| 19:59.42 | Trixer | Ama: Pretty much |
| 19:59.50 | Tem|work | fuck yeah |
| 19:59.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: thats what i'm saying, though. alchemy really needs more permanent and semi-permanent craftables. |
| 19:59.54 | Trixer | Some give you more.. silver leaf is good about giving you 3 or 4 same with briarthorn |
| 19:59.55 | Amarande | even "small" thorium nodes often give three |
| 20:00.01 | Tem|work | my boss is going to let me come in at 10 during the christmas break |
| 20:00.06 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: not disagreeing, the question is "what?" |
| 20:00.08 | Amarande | Trixer: balance decision, probably |
| 20:00.09 | NightHawkTheSane | and yeah, inscription is in the same (albeit reverse) boat. |
| 20:00.10 | Trixer | I agree NightHawk, the perm ones we get are BOP |
| 20:00.24 | Amarande | you need stupid amounts of briarthorn when you level alchemy |
| 20:00.30 | Lopeppeppy | Tem: Nice that you get to sleep in! |
| 20:00.35 | Trixer | Yeah Ama, its a base like silver leaf... |
| 20:00.49 | Dashkal | But then you can justify inscription for the same reason you can justify engineering. The self-buffs are worth it |
| 20:01.02 | Trixer | Dash: Agreed as well |
| 20:01.03 | Amarande | actually, BoP perks I'd say are an *important* thing about professions |
| 20:01.05 | NightHawkTheSane | barely :\ |
| 20:01.13 | NightHawkTheSane | im not entirely certain shoulder enchants are worth it |
| 20:01.15 | Trixer | Barely is still worth it |
| 20:01.16 | Amarande | or at the least, perks that require the profession to use, like most engineering items do |
| 20:01.26 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: It's debatable, but that's a damn good thing |
| 20:01.33 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah |
| 20:01.34 | Amarande | the problem with having only BoE perks with no profession requirement is pretty simple |
| 20:01.35 | Dashkal | If it were clear there'd be no choise |
| 20:01.37 | Trixer | The fact that alchemy gets an added buff to any potions or exilers they drink is pretty nice |
| 20:01.50 | Amarande | only a few hardcore folks end up taking the profession, and a server's economy becomes fail |
| 20:02.00 | foxlit | Gah, what the hell is wrong with people |
| 20:02.05 | Amarande | first high end stuff that people need to buy becomes too expensive |
| 20:02.07 | Trixer | Fox: Everything |
| 20:02.13 | Amarande | then everything else starts getting expensive so people can afford to buy said high end stuff |
| 20:02.15 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: the shorter question is "what isn't wrong with people" |
| 20:02.17 | foxlit | Someone wants to run heroic CoS timed with 2x Gladiator's Fist Weapons |
| 20:02.17 | Dashkal | Trixer: yep, and that gives value to being an alchemist. But to buy their wares? I'll pass. Without the self-only buff the benefits aren't worth the cost. |
| 20:02.36 | Amarande | then next thing you get newbies QQing because they can't upgrade any gear on AH because it's several gold for a decent teens green on some servers |
| 20:02.46 | foxlit | I mean, Gladiator's! |
| 20:02.47 | Lunessa | foxlit: That would be me! Woo...! FEAR MY CRAPTASTIC GEAR AND SKILLZ! |
| 20:02.57 | foxlit | No, it can't be you |
| 20:02.58 | Trixer | Dash: Dude, the costs? Try buying the mats off the AH to make that stuff.. no way you could ever resell that stuff... and farming the mats takes a life time almost.. |
| 20:03.06 | foxlit | The person in question typez liek diz. |
| 20:03.17 | Dashkal | Trixer: 'time' is cost, just like cash is |
| 20:03.19 | Amarande | foxlit: Not Merciless Gladiators? |
| 20:03.24 | Lunessa | Damn, not me then. |
| 20:03.28 | foxlit | Amarande: no, Gladiator's |
| 20:03.32 | Amarande | Dashkal: actually time <-> cash basically |
| 20:03.32 | Trixer | Dash: agreed, which is why I want 12g for a stack of 5 swiftness potions... |
| 20:03.37 | Amarande | which is one of the basic roots of newbie QQ at this point |
| 20:03.40 | Dashkal | Amarande: of course |
| 20:03.49 | foxlit | I mean, that stuff should've been replaced by the first green quest items in wrath. |
| 20:03.51 | Amarande | Newbies, either folks who are new to the server, or genuine bona fide newbies |
| 20:03.51 | NightHawkTheSane | finally got my bronze drake last night >< |
| 20:03.56 | Amarande | are complaining badly about the cost of things |
| 20:04.02 | Amarande | ever since 2.4, pretty much |
| 20:04.10 | Dashkal | I find my time is worth more than cash. Cash is easy to make. And I can often make the gold to buy something faster than I could farm it. |
| 20:04.17 | Amarande | Ever since it became so easy to make so much money so quickly with IQD dailies, newbie stuff has become unaffordable to newbies |
| 20:04.26 | Dashkal | The exceptions are big ticket items like 440+ crafted pieces |
| 20:04.27 | Trixer | Ama: Well I will admit that it was a shock to me on gorganash when I moved from amagaman how much of a price diffrence things were |
| 20:04.33 | Amarande | because at prices they could afford, it wouldn't be worth the high levels' time to farm it |
| 20:04.52 | Amarande | last time I scanned the AH, Linen Cloth was going for over a gold per piece |
| 20:04.55 | Amarande | *piece*, not stack |
| 20:05.00 | Trixer | Ama: yep |
| 20:05.04 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, on the other hand, it also means that newbies can sell equipment at vastly inflated prices to the alts of lv80 characters |
| 20:05.10 | Trixer | Ama: but at the same time linen iks very easy to come by... |
| 20:05.16 | Lopeppeppy | Amarande, go farm the Deadmines for serious gold then! |
| 20:05.18 | Dashkal | *blinks* newbies should be eating that shit up to make money.... |
| 20:05.26 | Trixer | Lope: was fixing to say that! |
| 20:05.35 | Amarande | Dashkal: newbies need it to level up their professions, though |
| 20:05.37 | ZorbaTHut | and, yeah, I wouldn't really complain if linen was going for a gold per piece |
| 20:05.41 | ZorbaTHut | just means I need to go farm some linen :) |
| 20:05.43 | Tem|work | Dude |
| 20:05.47 | Tem|work | Strange Dust |
| 20:05.49 | ZorbaTHut | it goes both ways |
| 20:05.50 | Dashkal | Amarande: eh, level up without professions and farm it at 80 :p |
| 20:05.58 | Lopeppeppy | I never sell mine for that high. And it's always free in-guild. |
| 20:05.58 | Tem|work | Strange dust is a GOLD MINE |
| 20:06.14 | Amarande | Yeah, on my guild on Turalyon I'm -very- generous with guildies |
| 20:06.22 | Amarande | of course, all my guildies there are also existing friends from elsewhere, too |
| 20:06.23 | Trixer | Really, though the problem with alot of noobie gear being high priced is because of twinks |
| 20:06.29 | Tem|work | aye, guildmates get anything I can afford for free |
| 20:06.30 | Lopeppeppy | Twinks suck. |
| 20:06.36 | Tem|work | screw twinks |
| 20:06.49 | Tem|work | except the ones that make me oodles of money by buying LBS for 25g a pop |
| 20:06.53 | Trixer | they are willing to pay crazy amounts of gold to squeeze every drop of worth out of their *9 charcter |
| 20:07.00 | Dashkal | Guildies tend to get things for free from me. Our guild is pretty free with pushing stuff around. Only the big stuff tends to get charged for, and mats are much preferred to gold |
| 20:07.21 | Trixer | Dash: same with us.. normally we move things between us all pretty commonly. |
| 20:07.22 | Lopeppeppy | *nod* |
| 20:07.28 | Lopeppeppy | Free with mats is an always. |
| 20:07.36 | Trixer | Lope: agreed |
| 20:07.51 | Lopeppeppy | Anything I have that's useful, I offer up where I can. And I'm in a new guild now, trying to impress my guild leader with my loving goodness and stuff. |
| 20:07.59 | Dashkal | Come to think of it, I don't think gold changes hands pretty much ever. If we tip guildies it's with extra mats |
| 20:08.30 | NightHawkTheSane | So, doing the matchmaker quest in HF. I managed to get a bull stuck in some rocks. he wouldn't follow me out. Poor bastard. |
| 20:08.37 | Shirik | WoW's trading system is very insecure |
| 20:08.50 | Dashkal | Shirik: murr? |
| 20:09.03 | Amarande | Night: Ugh, bugs like that suck |
| 20:09.03 | Shirik | when you talked about gold changing hands in guild, it reminds me of a little trick I play on my guildmates |
| 20:09.07 | Shirik | when they refuse to let me buy things |
| 20:09.13 | Shirik | I force the gold in there at the last second |
| 20:09.14 | Amarande | Night: Just be glad that in WoW, you can walk through other living beings |
| 20:09.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: its trivial to just re do it with another one. *shrug* |
| 20:09.32 | Amarande | Guild Wars had quests like that, and they often sucked HARD regarding that fact |
| 20:09.33 | Trixer | Ama: totally! |
| 20:09.42 | Tem|work | okay, massive lulz |
| 20:09.46 | Amarande | Basically, in GW, there were a lot of quests where you had to walk people around |
| 20:09.51 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, I remember spending half an hour trying to work my way next to the blacksmithing forge in the UO beta |
| 20:09.53 | Tem|work | Auburn offered Houston Nutt the job |
| 20:09.54 | Amarande | sometimes, you'd get to walk people around who were invulnerable (woohoo!) |
| 20:09.55 | ZorbaTHut | and then another half an hour to get out again |
| 20:09.56 | Tem|work | and he turned them down |
| 20:10.05 | Amarande | but they'd also NOT be people you could walk through |
| 20:10.27 | Amarande | and there'd be all kinds of issues where you had to go through a narrow choke point and players would get stuck and have to zone out via map travel and try all over again, because they literally couldn't move and had no other way to get moving |
| 20:10.29 | Trixer | Ama: Yeah I remember that stuff |
| 20:10.34 | Tem|work | What could be worse than a "thanks-but-no-thanks" from ole miss? |
| 20:10.54 | Amarande | Zorba: people couldn't walk thru each other? |
| 20:10.58 | Trixer | Tem: Thanks but your best friend took care of it this morning? |
| 20:11.03 | Dashkal | Shirik: *snickers* |
| 20:11.08 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, in the early beta, nope |
| 20:11.11 | Amarande | though from what I heard, the real problem in UO was that PvP was entirely too hardcore |
| 20:11.17 | ZorbaTHut | later on they added a way you could "push through" someone, which helped |
| 20:11.23 | ZorbaTHut | (and they removed the fence around that forge ;) ) |
| 20:11.24 | Amarande | PvP was enabled pretty much everywhere, with no factions like WoW |
| 20:11.25 | Tekkub | pvp's a problem? lol |
| 20:11.26 | Dashkal | I've had to fight off guildies trying to pay me for things. I tend to return the mail once and if they do it again just put it into the gbank |
| 20:11.38 | Amarande | Tekkub: in UO, it was basically gurubashi arena everywhere the moment you stepped outside a town |
| 20:11.54 | Tekkub | that' is a game I will never touch' |
| 20:12.09 | Trixer | Tek: You probally wont touch UO anyway lol... |
| 20:12.10 | Amarande | low levels complained loudly, because they couldn't do much of -anything- without being ganked |
| 20:12.17 | Amarande | though, what do we expect |
| 20:12.19 | Amarande | we know who published UO! |
| 20:12.20 | ZorbaTHut | in the beta I once had someone kill me for looting a corpse because he thought I'd ganked the guy |
| 20:12.30 | ZorbaTHut | it was my own corpse, after having been ganked. :( |
| 20:12.42 | Trixer | Zorba: HAHA! |
| 20:12.49 | ZorbaTHut | I think that's when I stopped playing :P |
| 20:13.09 | Trixer | Zorba: one thing, I think is that higher level chars shouldnt be able to take greyed out characters unless the grey char attacks them first.. |
| 20:13.16 | Thrae | Amarande: The problem was you basically had to be guilded the moment you started playing UO. This was still the real dawn of MMOs, so people didn't realize the implications a PvP system with death penalties and a serious reputation system would cause. With reputation the way it was originally, one wrong move and you need to start your character over or risk bringing down the rep. (or up the rep.!) of your friends. |
| 20:13.18 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: the irony there is, of course, hilarious. |
| 20:13.22 | Engale | I played UO for the better part of 10 years |
| 20:13.40 | Engale | but lately it's really become to must repetion |
| 20:13.43 | Shirik | pastamancer: Sorry, what? |
| 20:15.12 | Industrial | Anyone know if theres a good blog for shaman just like BigRedKitty for hunter? |
| 20:15.27 | Corr-work | i'm sure there is, but i never ran across one |
| 20:15.37 | Trixer | I am really tempted to start playing WAR just to see its pvp |
| 20:16.12 | Dashkal | Trixer: I've heard good things about it. They managed to get reasonably fair PvP even while leveling. |
| 20:16.41 | Trixer | Dash: See what I want to know is am I going to have to grind through and max my character out before there is any "satsifying pvp" |
| 20:17.00 | Trixer | thats what I Really liked about eq2, you could get pvp that was fun and fullfillnig pretty early. |
| 20:17.12 | Dashkal | Trixer: from what I hear, no. From what I've been hearing PvP is reasonably balanced and encouraged during the leveling process |
| 20:17.40 | Trixer | Dash: Nice |
| 20:18.35 | Shiibot | New WoW-EU Server Alert: The following free migration is scheduled to last until Tuesday, December 9th. . |
| 20:18.35 | Shiibot | To the NEW realm named Chamber of Aspects: Anachronos, Bronze Dragonflight, Bronzebeard, Darkspear, Ghostlands, Hellfire, Khadgar, Kilrogg, Kul Tiras, Nagrand, Terenas, Wildhammer. . Drak'thul, Grim Batol, Sylvanas --> Bladefist |
| 20:18.35 | Shiibot | Al'Akir, Neptulon, Ravencrest --> Deathwing. Burning Legion, Crushridge, Twilight's Hammer --> Dentarg. Magtheridon (Horde only) --> Zenedar, Haomarush. |
| 20:18.52 | Dashkal | Of course I have a near-zero chance to find out for myself given how I feel about pvp :p |
| 20:18.52 | Tekkub | who let him back in? |
| 20:19.12 | Amarande | Tekkub: more to the point, I see a free server migration likely to fail :) |
| 20:19.18 | Amarande | like the one when Ghostlands-US opened |
| 20:19.42 | Trixer | Dash: you dont really like pvp? |
| 20:19.42 | Amarande | they let about half the overpopulated realms transfer to the new realm, and it wasn't long at all before the new realm had a queue problem and needed free transfers itself :P |
| 20:20.08 | Amarande | though really free server transfers tend to fail hard anyway |
| 20:20.14 | Thrae | The first game that is able to implement huge maps like WoW and server-sharing like GW and EVE will be pretty epic. I've been writing out whitepage designs for such a system for a long time. |
| 20:20.20 | Amarande | people with friends on the original server don't want to make the switch |
| 20:20.25 | Amarande | guilds are afraid to make the switch nowadays |
| 20:20.35 | Amarande | because of a lot of problems you read about on the forums regarding that |
| 20:20.37 | Thrae | Well, epic if it's actually any good. |
| 20:20.45 | Amarande | Basically works like this: |
| 20:20.51 | Amarande | Guild decides to transfer after a few days of free transfers being open |
| 20:21.16 | NeoTron | they should add cross-battleground instancing |
| 20:21.24 | NeoTron | like BG's but for pve :) |
| 20:21.31 | Amarande | A few guildies aren't online for a few days. By the time they do come online, the free transfers are over and the guild suffers a nasty split because they can't do it without paying |
| 20:21.35 | Amarande | and sometimes, they can't even do it with paying |
| 20:21.38 | NeoTron | would help servers with less population to find people for 5-man runs |
| 20:21.54 | Amarande | because WAY too often, after free transfers, the target server becomes locked for a substantial period of time because it's itself overpopulated |
| 20:22.05 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: thats far trickier than x-realm bgs though |
| 20:22.24 | NeoTron | how so? |
| 20:22.32 | Amarande | I've read countless posts on the Blizzard forums about guilds having trouble because a crucial party member didn't make it into the free transfers, and then couldn't transfer at all because the new server was locked |
| 20:22.49 | Trixer | That would suck |
| 20:22.49 | NightHawkTheSane | well, there's nothing complex involved in throwing 10 idiots together for a WSG, or doing the math to put together two arena teams. |
| 20:22.52 | Amarande | apparently, also, the other trouble is that not everyone who applies for a free transfer gets it, which makes it even worse |
| 20:23.08 | NightHawkTheSane | But there's a lot more analysis and intuition involved in putting together a sane instance group |
| 20:23.17 | NeoTron | 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 dps |
| 20:23.18 | NightHawkTheSane | so you'd probably want x-realm communication, as well |
| 20:23.26 | Amarande | when guilds transfer a few days into the free transfers, oftentimes the last few to click the ok button don't get transferred because Blizzard deems that enough transfers have been made by the time they get to processing said last few |
| 20:23.31 | Trixer | NightHawk: Its what those 10 idiots do to win that WSG, or Arena battle thats complex.. something a pver like your self would never understand.. sense theres no strategy guides on it. |
| 20:23.32 | NeoTron | x-realm communication should be done yeah |
| 20:23.41 | NeoTron | SWG/EQ even has x-game communication |
| 20:23.42 | Amarande | NeoTron: indeed |
| 20:23.43 | Thrae | NeoTron: Yeah, that totally makes sense for the new focus on smaller groups. The only problem is there's a bunch of stuff that's server-side like AQ and crap which works off what's been "unlocked" for the server. |
| 20:23.54 | Amarande | I've more than once struck up a conversation with someone in WSG from another realm and then not gotten to finish it because the game ended |
| 20:24.07 | NeoTron | Thrae: could be limited to, say, LK instances |
| 20:24.09 | Thrae | NeoTron: Probably the biggest problem -- if you just have a group of 2, you might not be able to even MAKE it to the instance to join a group of 5 or 10. |
| 20:24.10 | Amarande | WSG is especially bad with this. :) |
| 20:24.15 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: but defining those roles is tricky. For leveling dungeons, any war/dk/pal/feral SHOULD be able to tank, but let's face it.. that's debatable |
| 20:24.35 | Amarande | Mainly because WSG tends to progress painfully slowly half the time, so you actually have -time- to talk to cross realmers |
| 20:24.37 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: so part of the system is the person stating what their role is |
| 20:24.40 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: same thing for healers, there's some well geared & good players who can heal great off-specced, and some that aren't. |
| 20:24.55 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: sure, but that's still added complexity. :) |
| 20:25.03 | NeoTron | you might get bad experiences from it but not more so than LFG in general |
| 20:26.05 | Thrae | Of course, last time I tried a Resto. Druid was...1.6? |
| 20:26.12 | Corr-work | it has changed a bit |
| 20:26.42 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: yeah, im just saying the frameworks for handling all that little piddling stuff already exists for same-realm groups. it'd have to be added in some manner for x-realm groups, thus more to consider/implement/etc. trickier. :) |
| 20:27.14 | Amarande | Night: yeah, BC leveling dungeons could be especially tough on the tank |
| 20:27.24 | Thrae | Really I don't think Resto. Druids still have as many group makeups as a Holy/Disc Priest or Paladin can handle, but certainly more then a Resto. Shaman. |
| 20:27.29 | Amarande | tanking Ramps with a paladin comes to mind |
| 20:27.53 | Thrae | I'm thinking weird groups like no tanks, etc. |
| 20:28.04 | Thrae | Or Rogue tank |
| 20:28.11 | Amarande | mainly, the dragon boss, and the fact that you basically had to run around avoiding the fire the whole time |
| 20:28.33 | Amarande | which seriously cut into a tankadin's mana management capabilities |
| 20:28.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: that's.. bull. |
| 20:28.40 | Amarande | then you went oom, and people died |
| 20:28.50 | Thrae | Hard to keep 3 super-DPS Mages alive when your tank is a Rogue |
| 20:28.56 | Amarande | Night: I -always- had trouble with Nazan |
| 20:29.01 | Amarande | even though I was a generally good tank in general |
| 20:29.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: you fail. |
| 20:29.11 | Tem|work | I find my biggest problem in LK leveling dungeons is dps who think they can pull |
| 20:29.20 | Amarande | Night: I didn't have the gear to survive taking too much of the fire, mainly |
| 20:29.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: i dont think any class should be designed around non-standard group arrangements. |
| 20:29.40 | Amarande | If I didn't take the fire, though, I didn't take damage, which meant I didn't get healed, which meant I went oom, which meant the dps died |
| 20:29.43 | Amarande | which, in fact, in one epic run they did |
| 20:29.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: that's nothing to do with it. I had just leveling gear, and never had an issue with that boss. |
| 20:30.02 | Amarande | one epic run, I had to desperately finish off the dragon from about 4% with just me and the druid healer left alive, they actually had to blow their innervate on me for more mana |
| 20:30.08 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: I'm not saying they should be designed around it, I just didn't find it much fun because I was pidgeon-holed into it. I'm certainly not the average consumer. |
| 20:30.24 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Hence I picked Feral, which has a wealth of possibilities. |
| 20:30.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: fair enough. |
| 20:30.29 | Amarande | Night: basically, paladin tanks have trouble with bosses that don't melee much, in general |
| 20:30.47 | Amarande | and that dragon tends not to melee much, that I noticed ... it prefers to spam the stupid fire of stupidity |
| 20:30.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: yeah, thats why I'm resto on my shaman and feral on my druid. each has the most versatility. |
| 20:31.02 | Amarande | and then you start having an even harder time |
| 20:31.24 | Amarande | since the stupid fire of stupidity is aoe, and so even the best tank in the world can't keep it off players on their own |
| 20:31.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: i have a paladin tank. i know. i never had issues with that boss |
| 20:31.36 | Thrae | Yeah, one of the most fun times I had was being only a tiny bit overleveled for ZF but being the Main Tank AND Main Healer |
| 20:31.42 | Amarande | Night: did you stand in the fire or try to get out of it? |
| 20:31.51 | NightHawkTheSane | i moved. fire hurts. |
| 20:31.56 | Amarande | Night: as did I |
| 20:32.05 | NightHawkTheSane | i also never had serious mana or threat issues. |
| 20:32.07 | Amarande | actually, I think that fight usually falls because of the DPS and healer rather than the tank |
| 20:32.18 | pastamancer | Shirik: http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?p=256810 |
| 20:32.22 | Amarande | tank rotates, DPS and healer fail to follow along, fail group fails |
| 20:32.38 | Amarande | because IIRC Nazan likes to rotate with you till the fire is over |
| 20:32.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: well if you run with idiots for group members, sure. |
| 20:32.41 | Thrae | Amarande: Don't you know? It's ALWAYS the Healer's fault. |
| 20:32.47 | Amarande | so if you rotate and party members don't, they get aced |
| 20:32.53 | Shirik | yeah I saw it, but I'm not quite sure what you want me to say :) You already said the important stuff |
| 20:32.56 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: Yeah, the most fun i've had is tanking trash in BT on my resto shaman :D |
| 20:33.06 | Amarande | which is why I had such a hard time with mana, since not only did I need to tank it, but I ended up having to do most of the DPS myself too heh |
| 20:33.31 | Amarande | this happens depressingly often with ramps groups |
| 20:33.37 | Amarande | I blame 2.3 |
| 20:33.38 | pastamancer | Shirik: ok, if I've said everything important then that's what I needed to hear :) |
| 20:33.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: i blame your inability to find people with more than three brain cells |
| 20:33.54 | Amarande | and I'm not just pulling 'I blame 2.3' out of my ass either |
| 20:34.01 | Amarande | Night: I blame 2.3 for a particular reason |
| 20:34.10 | Amarande | basically, the fact that 2.3 made it so easy to level to outland without instances |
| 20:34.18 | pastamancer | Shirik: any opinion on a solution? |
| 20:34.20 | mikma | warlocks get some good from +spirit. bullshit or true? |
| 20:34.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@122-57-255-142.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 20:34.30 | Amarande | which meant that ramps groups tended to suck as a matter of course, because most people in ramps groups tend to be doing their first real instance run |
| 20:34.40 | Amarande | before that, they either get run through instances by high levels or do not do them at all |
| 20:34.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: once again, stop grouping with idiots. it works |
| 20:34.46 | Tekkub | Amarande, people NEVER learn instancing correctly till they're at level cap |
| 20:34.52 | Syzgyn | Because ramps is srs bizznes |
| 20:34.56 | pastamancer | and not even then tek! |
| 20:35.06 | Tekkub | pastamancer, yea, sometimes... |
| 20:35.07 | Corr-work | sadly, ramparts -was- my first dungeon with my hunter |
| 20:35.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Tekkub: i got some errors in panda earlier today.. let me see if i can reproduce it and pastey it for you |
| 20:35.21 | Amarande | Syzgyn: I'd say Nazan could be a genuine problem for someone with absolutely no instance experience in a given role |
| 20:35.25 | Corr-work | not by first dungeon, by far, but with the hunter, he couldn't get ANY groups for lower level dungeons |
| 20:35.41 | Amarande | There's little room for error, unless you're well geared, which you probably are not when you go into ramps for the first time |
| 20:35.51 | Syzgyn | Agreed, but it's still brute-forceable most of the time |
| 20:36.01 | Amarande | It only takes one or two shots from the fire to kill you, and since the tank usually gets nabbed at least once per breath, the healer is too busy to heal you if you get caught |
| 20:36.16 | Amarande | and since the TANK can't take more than one or two shots, they have to keep circle strafing, so you have to keep moving too |
| 20:36.25 | Shirik | AH is full of Infinite dust |
| 20:36.34 | Amarande | basically, it's your first instance a lot, and you get thrown almost straight into a heavy mobility battle |
| 20:36.35 | Shirik | 1 for 10g, 8 for 100g |
| 20:37.31 | Amarande | Like I said, I blame 2.3, because of the fact that in 2.2 and earlier, people actually had to DO instances to level without excessive grinding |
| 20:37.49 | Amarande | Although by the same token, we also can't blame the design of Ramps, since it was designed in the day when you instanced on your way up old world |
| 20:38.05 | Amarande | Night: maybe I should put it this way |
| 20:38.25 | Amarande | 2.3 made it too easy for fail players to get to points where fail had significant effect on their groups, without forcing them to gain the experience to be rid of said fail |
| 20:38.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (i=62d8db99@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2412cbf1d4597f51) |
| 20:38.51 | Tem|work | my first instance ever we didn't have a healer |
| 20:39.01 | Tem|work | it took us 5 hours to clear Deadmines |
| 20:39.13 | Tem|work | oh November 04, how I miss you |
| 20:39.31 | Syzgyn | lol |
| 20:39.46 | Amarande | Tem: actually, that makes me think of the negative side of WoW's solo-friendliness, too |
| 20:39.47 | Shirik | whee |
| 20:39.47 | NeoTron | I remember when deadmines had all elite mobs |
| 20:39.49 | Shirik | 918 unbuffed spirit |
| 20:40.00 | NeoTron | man it was a slow place to clear |
| 20:40.07 | Shirik | still need to get rid of some of my 70 gear |
| 20:40.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Tekkub: I got these errors in Panda: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/103740 The first when clicking on the "glyphs" tab, the second when attempting to make a glyph from the "minor glyphs" tab. |
| 20:40.12 | sacarasc | Shirik: very good... but you're playing a paladin! |
| 20:40.12 | Amarande | In games where a balanced group is essential in all places, there tends to be a much better supply of healers |
| 20:40.17 | Shirik | f paladins |
| 20:40.18 | Amarande | and people willing to level healers, as well |
| 20:40.19 | Shirik | I'm playing a priest |
| 20:40.20 | pastamancer | Tem|work: I'd like your opinion regarding how to let unitframe addons do the same player/pet unit switching the the blizzard frames do when someone enters a vehicle: http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?p=256810 |
| 20:40.24 | Syzgyn | Imagine how pro you could be if you started playing the game at release, knowing everything you did now about it., |
| 20:40.34 | Amarande | In WoW, it's super easy to level, basically -unless you're a healer- |
| 20:40.51 | Amarande | which means people are actively -discouraged- by the game setup from leveling healers, which leads to a healer shortage |
| 20:41.02 | Tem|work | pastamancer: I don't think players can really do it like the blizzard ui |
| 20:41.05 | Trixer | Ama: Healers can level just as fast, you just do a shit load of instances over and over and over and over and overrrrrr |
| 20:41.05 | Shirik | I enjoyed leveling my priest |
| 20:41.13 | Tekkub | NightHawkTheSane, I don't use Auc anymore, frankly I've been considering just removing it and letting user bitch at them to implement a global API like the vendor one |
| 20:41.14 | Tem|work | since the secure code can change the unit in combat |
| 20:41.20 | pastamancer | Tem|work: I know, I'd like to get a good solution together to propose to blizzard |
| 20:41.25 | Amarande | The threat boosts tanking classes received with 3.0 help with finding a tank, but they did pretty much nothing for the tedium of being a healer |
| 20:41.27 | Shirik | I think the thing is to level a healer you need to enjoy playing a healer |
| 20:41.31 | Shirik | which results in higher quality players |
| 20:41.37 | Shirik | Anyone and their dog can level a DPS |
| 20:41.40 | Tem|work | pastamancer: ah okay |
| 20:41.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Tekkub: *shrug* i dont care either way, im just reporting the errors. :) |
| 20:41.49 | pastamancer | Tem|work: and considering you wrote unitwatch, I'm very much interested in your opinion |
| 20:41.50 | Amarande | Trixer: that's assuming you find instance groups in a situation where the game discourages people from doing instances |
| 20:42.01 | Amarande | and right now, from 1-70, you're discouraged from doing instances |
| 20:42.07 | Trixer | Ama: Well I have a lvl 70 priest, and I never really ahd a problem. |
| 20:42.16 | Trixer | Played him holy/disc all the way through. |
| 20:42.17 | Amarande | I notice people are having trouble finding even Ramps groups, an old Outland staple, now |
| 20:42.19 | Lunessa | Actually, I enjoyed leveling my priest. It wasn't until 60 that it turned into a "do what we need, not what you need" thing that pissed me off. The same thing happened again at 70. |
| 20:42.27 | Amarande | I'm really not surprised, seeing as it is very easy to hit 63 before even touching Outland |
| 20:42.53 | Trixer | However, with WOTLK released it is alot harder to find any lower level groups at all... |
| 20:42.58 | Amarande | Lunessa: the "do what we need" thing gave me issues too |
| 20:43.05 | Trixer | Im leveling a druid at the moment instead of jumping on the DK or power leveling bandwagon |
| 20:43.09 | Amarande | mainly when my warlock hit 70, and I was trying to get groups and guilds |
| 20:43.12 | Trixer | I just decided I didnt want to play my priest anymore. |
| 20:43.19 | Amarande | I'm a warlock. All I *DO* is DPS and some CC. |
| 20:43.26 | Lunessa | My priest has gotten very little play time. |
| 20:43.27 | Trixer | Ama: some cc? |
| 20:43.38 | Amarande | For many guilds I would have had to reroll a brand new character, because they wanted mostly tanks, or especially, healers |
| 20:44.00 | Trixer | Ama: well yeah because with a tank and a healer everything else kind of alls into place... |
| 20:44.03 | Amarande | especially this summer when BC was almost over and people mostly wanted bulldozer groups to clear content quickly before WotLK |
| 20:44.15 | Amarande | Trixer: depending on what mobs you're facing, anyway :) |
| 20:44.26 | Trixer | Ama: Well yeah |
| 20:44.36 | Amarande | Plenty of CC for someplace like Mech, hardly any in say SH where fearing mobs is a death wish |
| 20:45.01 | Amarande | thankfully, SH also had very little need for CC though, just a good tank and a healer backing them up |
| 20:45.14 | NightHawkTheSane | if you have a good tank and a good healer, no instance needs cc. |
| 20:45.14 | Trixer | The only thing that truely bugs me about wow, is its lack of good pvp.. arenas are fun... bgs are fun, butI want more random pvp.. watch over my back.. open up the scanner while im questing to make sure noone warps ontop of me and tackles me to gank me kind of pvp lol |
| 20:45.35 | Shirik | You know, I think Blizzard honestly underestimates the use of Spirit in healing gear |
| 20:45.45 | Shirik | They seem to think mp5 is better |
| 20:45.51 | Trixer | mp5? |
| 20:45.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: more people use mp5 than spirit. |
| 20:45.56 | Trixer | Magic Power? |
| 20:45.57 | Shirik | And that's also wrong |
| 20:46.00 | Shirik | for priests |
| 20:46.03 | Syzgyn | Mana per 5 |
| 20:46.06 | Corr-work | mana per 5 seconds |
| 20:46.06 | Trixer | ahh ok |
| 20:46.13 | Tekkub | people are used to SPI being broken |
| 20:46.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: for priests, yes. |
| 20:46.17 | Amarande | Night: regarding my comments a few weeks ago BTW |
| 20:46.22 | Amarande | how are ret pallies doing at 80 in mana terms? |
| 20:46.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: but aside from priests and resto druid, spirit is pretty meh |
| 20:46.26 | Tekkub | it's long-engrained in their heads that SPI sucked |
| 20:46.34 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: perfectly fine. |
| 20:46.36 | Shirik | but cloth healing gear still shows mp5 more than spirit |
| 20:46.38 | NeoTron | but for half the healing classes it still is |
| 20:46.46 | Amarande | Night: no troubles on longer raid bosses with oom? |
| 20:46.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: none. |
| 20:46.56 | Amarande | or are raid bosses shorter now :) |
| 20:46.58 | Dashkal | The fact that they had to fold SPI over on top of other stats with talents all over the place should have been a pretty good indication that the stat wasn't that good. |
| 20:47.18 | Shirik | I keep taking gear which appears to be made for mages |
| 20:47.19 | Amarande | I know some bosses were always short, like Faerlina who you only get about four or five minutes or so for tops |
| 20:47.35 | Amarande | and which I still consider to be one of the very best examples of soft enrage without need for hard enrage |
| 20:47.46 | Trixer | Whats a "long" raid boss considered like time wise? |
| 20:47.50 | Trixer | 30 mins fighting the boss? |
| 20:47.56 | Amarande | Trixer: like old world raids |
| 20:47.59 | Shirik | 10m probably |
| 20:48.03 | linear` | 10-20m |
| 20:48.04 | NeoTron | Amarande: of course the achievement to kill her is to not get the frenzy off and that was beyond easily done |
| 20:48.06 | Shirik | these days there aren't many that last more than 5 |
| 20:48.23 | Amarande | Neo: disappointing :( |
| 20:48.30 | Amarande | I was hoping the 60 strategy would come back |
| 20:48.30 | Trixer | Ama: Ahh ok |
| 20:48.35 | NeoTron | 10-man, second time in there |
| 20:48.40 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: i wouldn't call it "beyond easily done' |
| 20:48.43 | Amarande | yeah, especially 10-man |
| 20:48.58 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: you have 3 healers healing one person. it's essentially patchwork without the offtank |
| 20:49.16 | Amarande | I still think 10-man should by definition be more challenging and more significant than 25's |
| 20:49.19 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: that depends a lot on the healers and the tank, though. |
| 20:49.19 | linear` | some long fights like kelthuzad are the worst |
| 20:49.34 | NeoTron | it was our second time in there as a guild |
| 20:49.43 | NeoTron | and two of the healers hadn't been to naxx yet at all |
| 20:49.48 | Amarande | Basically, I think 10-mans should be a better test of skill for a simple reason |
| 20:50.02 | NightHawkTheSane | and you're probably a competent raiding guild, who was raiding end-game content pre-wrath, y es? |
| 20:50.05 | Amarande | In 10-mans, basically every man counts and one person dropping the ball will virtually always cause a wipe on anything challenging |
| 20:50.06 | NeoTron | if you can kill patchwerk, this one is not hard |
| 20:50.09 | Trixer | Ama: I can say I agree.. I honestly thing that the less players you bring to a fight then the more skillful the players should be |
| 20:50.12 | Trixer | for pvp and pve |
| 20:50.25 | NeoTron | yes for sure but my point was that it's not really disimilar from patchwerk at all |
| 20:50.37 | Amarande | 25-mans, once people are geared, generally can be managed with 23 or 24, which means one or two people can be deadweight to the point that people can even buy 25-man runs |
| 20:50.47 | Amarande | and 40-mans ... welll ... |
| 20:50.51 | NeoTron | Amarande: not true |
| 20:50.59 | Amarande | from what I hear, you could have thirty-five pieces of complete deadweight against Onyxia back in the day. :) |
| 20:51.01 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: *shrug* i think faerlina might be harder, but I think both will cause problems for groups that aren't quite as serious about raiding |
| 20:51.01 | NeoTron | Amarande: meaning we could probably easily 8-man all of naxx now |
| 20:51.24 | NeoTron | we killed 4HM with 4 people alive for 80% of the last two mobs being alive |
| 20:51.41 | NeoTron | there are only a few exceptions I'd say |
| 20:51.42 | Trixer | wait what would someone pay for a raid run lol? |
| 20:51.46 | NightHawkTheSane | heh, heigan is 3 man-able if those 3 people don't suck. :P |
| 20:51.47 | Shirik | anyone know what 505 haste rating translates into? |
| 20:51.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: wowwiki knows. |
| 20:51.59 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: the trick is getting the achievement there |
| 20:52.06 | Shirik | well let me rephrase that |
| 20:52.10 | NeoTron | we have some ppl that are incapable of not dying |
| 20:52.19 | Shirik | Is reducing the GCD from 1.5s to 1 second justfiable for a CoH priest? |
| 20:52.20 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: thats going to make me cry, im sure. |
| 20:52.25 | Shirik | would it make /that much/ of a difference? |
| 20:52.46 | Amarande | Trixer: I'm actually not sure |
| 20:52.55 | Amarande | back when I really wanted that Champion of the Naaru title, before I gave up on it |
| 20:52.56 | Dashkal | naxx was easily done with 9 at 70, and we never broke out of 10 mans. |
| 20:53.02 | Amarande | I considered hiring a T6 guild to take me through Gruul and Maggie |
| 20:53.03 | Trixer | Ama: Im going to make a guild designed for raid runs lmao! |
| 20:53.23 | Amarande | but I wasn't able to get a figure on how much I should expect to pay before I went inquiring |
| 20:53.25 | Trixer | Ama: is that for the gear or the achivement I mean why would you want a raid run? |
| 20:53.34 | Amarande | Trixer: it was for the title |
| 20:53.52 | Amarande | my guild was only able to do kara at the time pretty much |
| 20:53.55 | Trixer | Ama: Well isnt part of the title saying hey I did this.. not saying "Hey I have lots of money and they did this.. for me..?" |
| 20:54.04 | Amarande | Trixer: theoretically I suppose heh |
| 20:54.16 | Amarande | given that most of the titles are "hey, I spent stupid amounts of money on redundant stuff" now though ... LOL |
| 20:54.37 | Amarande | kinda reminds me of Guild Wars titles, actually |
| 20:54.40 | Amarande | almost all GW titles were designed purely and totally as money sinks |
| 20:54.55 | ZorbaTHut | ama, it won't be hard to find a group to do it in wrath, I suspect |
| 20:55.10 | ZorbaTHut | personally I plan to try soloing onyxia |
| 20:55.46 | Trixer | I miss the day of doing droks runs to make gold in GW |
| 20:56.04 | Tem|work | ugh depressing xkcd today |
| 20:56.13 | Lopeppeppy | Zorba, I hear tell of druids easily soloing her. |
| 20:56.24 | Lopeppeppy | Tem, I thought todays xkcd was awesome. |
| 20:56.28 | Trixer | Im going to solo her! |
| 20:56.28 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I'm prot warrior so it may be a little iffier :) |
| 20:57.32 | NightHawkTheSane | .. i think i may have just swallowed a fruit fly |
| 20:57.45 | Lopeppeppy | Protein |
| 20:58.00 | Amarande | Onyxia was 5-mannable even at 60, right? |
| 20:58.03 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: some of the achievements are easier done together... say the "8 person kill" and the "don't die on heigan" and the thaddius one |
| 20:58.12 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, definitely |
| 20:58.27 | Trixer | I would really like to see guild halls in wow |
| 20:58.38 | Amarande | Night: the question is, what genes does that fruit fly have? :) |
| 20:58.39 | Trixer | with like throphies of all the raid bosses your guild has killed |
| 20:58.44 | NightHawkTheSane | I still think getting more than 5 people to not die on heigan will give me headaches |
| 20:58.48 | Trixer | which are basicaly little figures on a wall of that boss |
| 20:59.06 | Amarande | Trixer: couldn't they redo the officers' lounges to be guild halls? |
| 20:59.13 | Amarande | they already even have instance portals |
| 20:59.28 | NeoTron | last kill I think had 3 people die |
| 20:59.38 | ZorbaTHut | if they want to throw the RP group a huge bone, they could implement furniture and apartments |
| 20:59.38 | Amarande | although I'm not exactly sure how that would affect unguilded people wanting to buy pvp gear |
| 20:59.40 | NeoTron | 1 new who had never been (understandable) and two that I predict will always die |
| 20:59.47 | NightHawkTheSane | heh, last week (our first time in) we had 3 people live. |
| 20:59.58 | Amarande | eh, I know a few places people could claim and probably no one would ever know about |
| 21:00.07 | Trixer | Ama: Most likely |
| 21:00.12 | Amarande | you could probably have full on /say cyber in some places I've been and no one would ever report you because no one would ever see it |
| 21:00.13 | ZorbaTHut | plus I think it would be hilarious to watch the RPers start raiding so they can compete for the Diamond-Inlaid Titanium Footstool |
| 21:00.20 | Arrowmaster | i maybe get hit by the first splash but after that its super fucking easy to avoid them all on heigan |
| 21:00.24 | Amarande | the top floor of the house where you buy the deepdive helm schematic comes to mind |
| 21:00.51 | Trixer | lmao deepdive.. helm.. sounds like a condom! |
| 21:02.37 | Amarande | heh, that's the Eng helm that lets you unlimited underwater breathing |
| 21:02.51 | Amarande | and which I really think is due for an upgrade |
| 21:03.18 | Tem|work | Best Onion story ever |
| 21:03.18 | Tem|work | http://www.theonion.com/content/news/shitload_of_math_due_monday |
| 21:03.32 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: theres a fishing pole now |
| 21:03.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: ... what more do you want? it lets you breath underwater. |
| 21:04.13 | Trixer | NightHawk: Agreed |
| 21:04.26 | Lunessa | Wow... one of your mailboxes that gets fed from a web form just got a mountain of spam links for porn. |
| 21:04.42 | Lopeppeppy | mmm? |
| 21:04.48 | Amarande | Night: I mean, an underwater breathing helm that's actually useful for wearing during underwater adventuring without losing a ton of stats |
| 21:05.08 | NightHawkTheSane | you lose a lot more stats from drowning. |
| 21:05.21 | Amarande | maybe eng should be able to make a head enchant that gives underwater breathing |
| 21:05.38 | Lunessa | A support site which has a feedback form just got hit by a bot posting porn links. Luckily it only goes to a mailbox I can manage. |
| 21:06.01 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe you should just be happy that the item exists? it's not like underwater breathing is -hard- to come by |
| 21:06.13 | NightHawkTheSane | or even vastly necessary |
| 21:06.21 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, you meant "our" not "your" |
| 21:06.25 | Thrae | Amarande: Helps defeat the purpose of Warlock's spell, Undead's additional duration, and especially Druid's quested (not bought!) aquatic form. |
| 21:06.44 | Hirsute | Don't forget Nagrand Cherries! |
| 21:06.46 | Lunessa | Yeah, it's not like we spend lots of time underwater in WoW. No under-the-sea dungeons. |
| 21:06.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: and don't forget the hard earned HYDROCANE |
| 21:07.10 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Yeah, i think technically everyone can use staves, right? |
| 21:07.20 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: dks and pallies cannot |
| 21:07.27 | Thrae | Ah |
| 21:07.38 | Thrae | Rogues should be able to dual wield staves. |
| 21:07.49 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, i dont think rogues can either, actually |
| 21:07.56 | Amarande | Thrae: Warlock spell would still be useful |
| 21:08.00 | NightHawkTheSane | but thats a non issue now with the kalu'ak fishing pole |
| 21:08.02 | Amarande | because of that minor glyph of <3 |
| 21:08.41 | Hirsute | Yay for the fishing pole. |
| 21:09.08 | Amarande | Say, did they revert the level requirement for fishing yet? |
| 21:09.19 | Amarande | (other than the quest at 225) |
| 21:09.29 | Amarande | I remember it used to not have one, then it got the level req of a crafting profession |
| 21:09.52 | Amarande | Night: I'd say there's really only one waterbreathing item that's HARD earned actually |
| 21:10.16 | Hirsute | Amarande: What's that? |
| 21:10.22 | NightHawkTheSane | aquatic form. fuck that quest. |
| 21:10.25 | Amarande | Hirsute: the ring from the AQ scepter chain |
| 21:10.35 | Amarande | which I still consider the best of the waterbreathing items |
| 21:10.58 | Hirsute | Aaah. I never did AQ. |
| 21:11.06 | Hirsute | Hit 60 a week after TBC hit. |
| 21:11.43 | Amarande | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=21526 |
| 21:11.51 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: remember when that quest item was in an area that caused fatigue? |
| 21:12.18 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: sadly, i do. :( |
| 21:12.39 | Lunessa | My first three druids got delted because of that fucking quest. |
| 21:12.40 | Amarande | and now fatigue for "actually reachable" areas is sort of a non issue |
| 21:13.08 | Amarande | mainly because of better access to swim speed boosts |
| 21:13.11 | Lunessa | Amarande: In Dec 2004 or Jan 2005 they moved the item to be closer to shore. |
| 21:13.40 | Amarande | do murliver oil and swim speed potions stack with each other or with the warlock glyph? |
| 21:14.04 | Hirsute | I saw a druid with the swim-speed boosting glyph, wearing all the swim-speed boosting items he could get his hands on swimming in the water in SW just after the expansion. |
| 21:14.09 | Hirsute | That was crazy fast. |
| 21:14.37 | Amarande | Hirsute: you could possibly even hit a world boundary and get back alive with that, couldn't you :) |
| 21:14.38 | Hirsute | Don't know if the equipment contributed, but it was still crazy fast. |
| 21:14.47 | Hirsute | Amarande: Possibly. |
| 21:14.50 | Amarande | oh, also speaking of fatigue |
| 21:14.56 | Hirsute | I wonder if that'll make swimming to GM Island possible. |
| 21:14.57 | Amarande | anyone know if there's a bottom to ocean water? |
| 21:15.02 | Amarande | GM Island? |
| 21:15.25 | Amarande | Or if you swim deep enough in the ocean, do you eventually just go auto-glug like if you fly too low off the edge of outland? |
| 21:15.31 | Hirsute | http://www.wowwiki.com/GM_Island |
| 21:17.06 | Amarande | hmm, neat guild name idea for anyone who wants to make fun of taxation: |
| 21:17.15 | Amarande | On a PvP server, of course. "Ironforge Revenue Service" |
| 21:17.53 | Amarande | wow, I'm surprised no one came up with that before, either :) |
| 21:20.23 | Trixer | lol |
| 21:20.25 | Trixer | Im gonna make |
| 21:20.33 | Trixer | "Plz Be Gentle We Are Girlz" |
| 21:21.15 | Trixer | I have a friend who plays WoW and all she does is convence guys to run her through instances |
| 21:21.31 | Trixer | she went from 20-60 following behind some stary eyed 13 year old kid looting.. |
| 21:21.34 | Lopeppeppy | She gives the rest of us bad names. *sigh* |
| 21:21.38 | Trixer | I agree Lope |
| 21:21.48 | Corr-work | that's awesome, Trixer |
| 21:21.48 | Trixer | I fuck with her all the time about it.. I see her doing a quest and im like woah you mean your playing? |
| 21:22.23 | Lunessa | Oh man, how lame is that. |
| 21:22.24 | Lopeppeppy | That's why I play male toons, guys, so I don't get crap. |
| 21:22.32 | Corr-work | anybody who will spend time giving some supposed girl things just because they're female will get what they deserve |
| 21:22.41 | Trixer | Corr: Agreed... |
| 21:22.50 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, but the rest of the females suffer for it, Corr-work. |
| 21:22.58 | Corr-work | they do? |
| 21:22.59 | Trixer | HoweverI dont treat girls any diffrent in games.. hell girls are the spawn of satan why the fuckw ould I want to make their lives easY? |
| 21:23.18 | Lopeppeppy | See? |
| 21:23.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Corr-work: "anybody who will spend time giving some supposed girl things just because they're female will get what they deserve" that pretty much sums up any relationship. ;) |
| 21:23.29 | Trixer | Lope: If by suffer you mean have guys on their knees offering you things like wanton slaves... then yeah you suffer terribly |
| 21:23.32 | Lunessa | Um, I have several female toons. No one ever offered me anything based on that. Well, except the guy who asked me to marry him. But I think he would have asked /anyone/ to marry him. |
| 21:23.47 | pastamancer | but ganking girls is the modern-day equivalent of dipping their pigtails in the inkwell |
| 21:23.55 | Corr-work | XD |
| 21:24.04 | Lopeppeppy | No, we suffer from bitter guys who got shafted by other guys pretending to be girls... I'm tired of the bad rap I have as a female gamer. |
| 21:24.30 | Trixer | Lope: Those bitter dudes deserved it, I mean they gave someone something on the soul word that they were a girl... |
| 21:24.36 | Trixer | thats like reverse sexism.. |
| 21:24.42 | Trixer | I dont either... |
| 21:24.45 | Lopeppeppy | Welcome to being a female gamer, Trixer. |
| 21:24.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Lopeppeppy: what guys who are bitter over actual females who are just bitches? |
| 21:24.53 | Hirsute | Yay for female gamers. |
| 21:25.00 | Trixer | Im just sayng if someone is stupid enough to treat someone diffrently because of their sex and that alone.. then they deserve what they get. |
| 21:25.03 | NightHawkTheSane | "what about"* |
| 21:25.07 | Lopeppeppy | NightHawkTheSane, bitches make my life miserable too. |
| 21:25.09 | Corr-work | i -would- find it hard to believe that females are still considered a novelty in games, but we only had like 3 or 4 in my guild of 100 or so. that i can think of, anyway. |
| 21:25.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Corr-work: they're a novelty because the geek culture of video games makes them a novelty, not because of any supposed statistic |
| 21:25.42 | Lopeppeppy | Two in my guild. |
| 21:25.43 | Trixer | Corr: I find that alot of PVP based games have a higher rate of females.. honestly.... |
| 21:25.45 | Lopeppeppy | Guild of 20. |
| 21:25.52 | Lunessa | My previous guild had about 45% female membership. My current one has about 25%. |
| 21:26.04 | Corr-work | i don't know much about geek culture |
| 21:26.09 | NightHawkTheSane | that is to say: http://xkcd.com/67/ |
| 21:26.11 | Corr-work | i have stayed a longer, pretty much |
| 21:26.12 | Lopeppeppy | Anyway, I have to get going home. You guys stay good, I'll see you Monday. |
| 21:26.39 | Thunder_Child | we were never good |
| 21:26.39 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.30.131) |
| 21:27.21 | Corr-work | i haven't been "good" for 13 years. |
| 21:28.19 | Trixer | I have been "good" sense I was 13 haha |
| 21:28.31 | Corr-work | yeah, i aimed mine at 11 |
| 21:28.39 | Trixer | haha |
| 21:28.40 | Corr-work | boy + unmonitored internet |
| 21:28.43 | Trixer | Corr started early! |
| 21:28.44 | Corr-work | ^5 |
| 21:30.32 | Trixer | ^5 |
| 21:32.45 | Lunessa | This is the hight of all things PVP - http://xkcd.com/91/ |
| 21:34.07 | NightHawkTheSane | does anyone here read warren ellis' blog? |
| 21:34.50 | Lunessa | No, sorry. |
| 21:35.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Kirov (n=Kirov@c-24-16-58-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.36 | NightHawkTheSane | http://notalwaysright.com/cold-hard-cash/1366 >< |
| 21:38.24 | Amarande | Trixer: PvP games have -more- women than PvE games? |
| 21:38.29 | Amarande | I'm surprised at that idea, actually |
| 21:38.49 | Amarande | mainly because when I think 'PvP games' I think of all the FPS where you have teenage boys who act totally immature and like to do things like use the R word to describe owning someone especially bad etc. |
| 21:39.04 | Trixer | Well I know that I see a shit load of women on eve which is a pvp game.. as well as guildwars |
| 21:39.08 | Amarande | yes, that R word, the one most women find repulsive |
| 21:39.15 | Trixer | ?? |
| 21:39.21 | Amarande | Trixer: 'rape' |
| 21:39.23 | Trixer | ohh yeah |
| 21:39.37 | Amarande | Many women would take it more kindly if you used the N word around them than that one. |
| 21:39.48 | Amarande | Of course, teenage boys in FPS use the N word copiously too :P |
| 21:39.53 | Trixer | I dont really use either word |
| 21:40.09 | Kirov | Don't think of PvP and PvE as hardcore gaming and casual gaming, think of PvP and PvE as social interaction and solitary |
| 21:40.25 | Amarande | Kirov: I think more of PvP and PvE as competitive vs. cooperative |
| 21:40.25 | Trixer | to me pvp games are a little more casual |
| 21:40.35 | Trixer | I can do a couple BGs at my lunch break no problem |
| 21:40.42 | Trixer | ever tried to do an instance on your lunch break? |
| 21:40.58 | Amarande | On a PvE server, you cooperate with your fellow faction members, you don't really worry much at all about the other faction unless you're in a BG or for five minutes after doing a quest that causes you to get flagged |
| 21:41.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Kirov: thats just as false a dichotomy as casual/hardcore |
| 21:41.22 | Amarande | On a PvP server, you constantly concern yourself with attack-and-defend against potential other-faction members coming by |
| 21:41.48 | Hirsute | Is there any easy way (without an addon for this purpose) to get addon chat messages displayed in one of your chat frames? |
| 21:42.10 | Kirov | It depends on how you want to define PvP and PvE. In the WoW world there's just as much social interaction in one as the other (or can be). |
| 21:42.35 | Trixer | agreed Kiv |
| 21:42.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Hirsute: not without an addon, i dont think |
| 21:42.53 | Amarande | Basically, when I think PvE, I think positive social interaction (i.e., helping people) |
| 21:43.12 | Kirov | If you want to define games as a whole outside of just WoW, I would classify WoW as a PvP game with PvE elements. |
| 21:43.16 | Amarande | while when I think PvP, I think negative social interaction (i.e., killing/interfering with people and needing to protect yourself from same) |
| 21:43.17 | Trixer | when I think pve, I think mindless boring bots whom have been slayed a million times and there are countless guides online on how to do it |
| 21:43.42 | Amarande | there is little negative social interaction on a PvE server, except among those who have voluntarily flagged or are going into BGs |
| 21:43.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Kirov: except it's the reverse. |
| 21:43.59 | Amarande | about the only other 'negative' interaction I can think of besides those is the ninja of a resource node |
| 21:44.22 | Lunessa | Amarande: You must not attempt to communicate and form PUGs much. |
| 21:44.25 | Amarande | well, also players who roll need on stuff they shouldn't, but that's more dumb than competitive |
| 21:44.56 | Amarande | Lunessa: yeah, I'm thinking more in terms of basic game mechanics |
| 21:45.07 | Amarande | not taking into account the factor of human incompetence |
| 21:45.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: there's plenty of "negative interaction" on pve realms |
| 21:45.40 | Amarande | on a lot of PvE realms, I barely even SEE alliance people in most zones |
| 21:45.46 | Trixer | LAWL NOOB YOU DONT KNOW WHERE TO QUEST LAWN NOOB YOU LVL 12 NOOB! |
| 21:46.04 | Kirov | PvE realms are almost worse that PvP. It's far easier to mess with people on a PvE server because so much of what you can do won't flag you for PvP which means you can do things with out reprocussions. |
| 21:46.06 | Amarande | Trixer: abusiveness is a universal quantity to both types of server |
| 21:46.13 | Lunessa | Frankly, game mechanics only dictate so much of social interaction. PVE/PVP, need for groups/raids, limited spawns of loot/nodes, and commincations tools. The rest - PURE personality. |
| 21:46.35 | Amarande | hell, there are *solitaire* players who swear up a storm every game |
| 21:46.49 | Lunessa | Visit any realm forum. You'll see what I'm talking about. |
| 21:47.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 21:47.20 | Amarande | In any case, I think we can agree however that competition is fiercer on PvP servers |
| 21:47.27 | Amarande | simply -because- of the near-constant ability to be ganked |
| 21:47.48 | Amarande | and one thing I have indeed noticed about gaming, is that the more competitive a game is, the more it brings out the immature elements |
| 21:48.14 | Amarande | and I also at least *thought* that women tended to have a greater dislike than male players for said immature elements, on average |
| 21:48.35 | NightHawkTheSane | thats entirely untrue |
| 21:49.15 | Lunessa | I played on a PVP server at launch. Once you got to 60 (and there were folks who had in about 3 weeks) all they had to do was kill each other and leveling players. I couldn't quest in Lakeshire because I was ganked about 10 times per hour. And camped. |
| 21:49.29 | Lunessa | But that's changed since there are rewarding ways to pvp now. |
| 21:50.11 | Hirsute | Yeah, now the DK starting area is where people get ganked. Or it was on the Beta servers on the PvP realm. |
| 21:50.15 | Lunessa | But it's not that PVP servers cause that, it's that people who want to act like that gravitate to where it's permitted. |
| 21:50.18 | Kirov | That was back in the days when Shamans were rediculous and could kill a group of 5 lvl 55s with out breaking a sweat. |
| 21:50.24 | Amarande | Hirsute: I thought the DK starting area didn't allow PvP |
| 21:50.31 | Amarande | unless you mean EPL generally |
| 21:50.45 | Hirsute | Amarande: Once you finish the quest line, and yes, it was EPL |
| 21:51.02 | Hirsute | Once you finished the quest line and were phased into the same world as everyone else. |
| 21:51.07 | Amarande | and yes, I'm a lot more cautious about the pvp flag in the Plaguelands in general since WotLK |
| 21:51.19 | Amarande | like I've mentioned before with not doing Uther's Tomb on many classes |
| 21:51.44 | Amarande | unless the class's fighting ability is not significantly impacted by needing to equip an offhand MacGuffin for 30sec |
| 21:51.47 | Amarande | Heya Cairenn :) |
| 21:51.48 | Hirsute | My only experience on a PvP server was then, and I realized I'd made a good choice in not rolling on one ever. |
| 21:51.51 | Cairenn | hi hi |
| 21:52.01 | Amarande | How's the day going? |
| 21:52.08 | Cairenn | it goes |
| 21:52.09 | Cairenn | you? |
| 21:52.13 | Amarande | Pretty good :) |
| 21:52.17 | Cairenn | cool :) |
| 21:52.22 | Amarande | Still procrastinating on dragging the tree upstairs LOL |
| 21:52.24 | Amarande | Anything fun going on? |
| 21:52.26 | Cairenn | heh |
| 21:52.46 | Cairenn | just woke up, no idea if anything fun is happening, yet ;) |
| 21:53.23 | Amarande | You know what would be an awesome idea for eng, by the way? |
| 21:53.36 | Amarande | some kind of mountain climbing grapple |
| 21:53.46 | Amarande | then people would probably quit complaining about needing flying mounts in azeroth :) |
| 21:54.04 | kamdis | suggestions forum |
| 21:54.45 | Amarande | It would probably also make Jame scream like a banshee ... LOL |
| 21:55.25 | Amarande | I wonder how many EQGs would have to be rewritten if you could climb over mountains :) |
| 21:55.53 | NightHawkTheSane | they'd never allow that. the mountains exist for a reason |
| 21:57.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 21:57.05 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 21:57.13 | Fisker- | Kinda like in GTA4 where instead of paying the tollbooth you want to put a grenade there |
| 21:57.33 | Fisker- | But then it automatically pays, you start raging, and then you blow yourself up because you were busy raging rather than driving away from the grenade |
| 21:57.54 | kamdis | haha |
| 21:57.56 | kamdis | classic |
| 21:58.48 | Fisker- | I also learned not to navigate the phone while just idling in your car |
| 21:58.55 | Fisker- | especially if you got grenades selected :( |
| 21:59.11 | Fisker- | Because for some reason the mouseclick works both on the phone as well as the weapon |
| 21:59.22 | Fisker- | so you're dropping grenades while browsing your phone, wee! |
| 21:59.57 | Amarande | Fisker: lemme guess, you died a lot in GTA4 by doing that :) |
| 22:00.05 | Trixer | http://www.crispygamer.com/comics/ding/Ding-2008-11-18.aspx |
| 22:00.07 | Trixer | funny |
| 22:00.12 | Hirsute | I just want my flyer in Azeroth because it's so much faster getting around that way. |
| 22:00.20 | Fisker- | only once to the phone and another time to the tollbooth thing :P |
| 22:00.21 | Trixer | lol |
| 22:00.25 | Fisker- | Got a lot of stuff blown up |
| 22:00.28 | Fisker- | though |
| 22:00.44 | bnovc | Hirsute: are they adding that? |
| 22:01.01 | Hirsute | No. |
| 22:01.23 | Hirsute | Would be nice, but they've pretty much said, "We're not interested in recoding Azeroth so you can fly there." |
| 22:01.28 | Hirsute | I can't blame them, really. |
| 22:01.35 | Hirsute | But it doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice. |
| 22:02.19 | Hirsute | Once I get a vehicle-mount, it'll be faster, too. No getting knocked off by little mini-mobs. |
| 22:02.34 | Hirsute | Always drives me nuts when that happens. |
| 22:03.09 | Amarande | Hirsute: Dazed? |
| 22:03.16 | Lunessa | Man, imagine how much work re-doing every damned zone map would be for flight. And then imagine the patch... |
| 22:03.18 | Amarande | I don't think grey mobs can usually daze |
| 22:03.31 | Amarande | Lunessa: And they'd have to actually come up with stuff for present day Hyjal |
| 22:03.58 | NightHawkTheSane | there's actually terrain IN hyajal, you know |
| 22:04.05 | NightHawkTheSane | they don't need to create it |
| 22:04.15 | Lunessa | Not worth the time, actually. re-writing all of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor... meh. |
| 22:04.20 | Hirsute | Amarande: You're right. I'm smoking crack. My frustration was actually when I couldn't avoid some water and got knocked off, just to have the mob of beasties catch up to me. Not hard to kill them, but I'd rather not have to. |
| 22:04.32 | Hirsute | Lunessa: Exactly, like I said, I can't blame them. |
| 22:04.40 | Hirsute | It will be nice to not be dismounted in water, come 3.1 |
| 22:08.11 | Amarande | Night: they'd want to put something there other than empty space though I presume, if they finally ended up coding things in a way that they couldn't avoid letting people go there |
| 22:08.40 | Amarande | which means they'd probably have to make it a 70+, probably 90 or 100 by the time they'd ever do something like that quest zone |
| 22:09.21 | Amarande | by the way, speaking of potential or non-potential future WoW additions |
| 22:09.36 | Amarande | do you folks think the Emerald Dream will be more likely an instance, or more likely another offworld, like outland? |
| 22:09.57 | Corr-work | i think it will never be implemented fully |
| 22:10.19 | Amarande | Corr: I'm thinking 'next expansion after they run out of Azeroth lore' |
| 22:10.39 | Amarande | or maybe even next expansion |
| 22:10.48 | Amarande | probably either 81-90 in South Seas and 91-100 in ED, or vice versa |
| 22:10.55 | p3lim | Hirsute: 3.0.4 actually |
| 22:11.18 | Hirsute | p3lim: For mounts in water? |
| 22:11.25 | NightHawkTheSane | p3lim: i thought they had said the first content patch? (3.1) |
| 22:11.42 | NightHawkTheSane | 3.0.4 is most likely just a class tweak/bugfix realease |
| 22:11.43 | Tem|work | Oh HELL YES |
| 22:11.45 | NightHawkTheSane | release* |
| 22:11.50 | Amarande | I'm more thinking it'll be a world now than a raid zone, simply because of having four entrances |
| 22:11.50 | Tem|work | How did I miss this DK post? |
| 22:12.00 | Amarande | a raid with four separate entry portals would seem odd :) |
| 22:12.00 | Tem|work | Bone Shield is not fine. When the cooldown is off, DKs are too squishy. If we buff their mitigation then Bone Shield turns them into the best tanks. We do plan on buffing Frost Presence’s armor and magic mitigation to compensate for nerfing Bone Shield. Your incoming damage should be the same, just smoother. We will also likely lower the cooldown of Anti-Magic Shell a little. All of this still needs a lot of testing however. |
| 22:12.23 | Amarande | not to mention the implications that simply turning the emerald dream portals into raid portals would have on PvP servers |
| 22:12.40 | Tem|work | Btw, Who was it the other day saying I was dreaming that an AMS cooldown reduction was imminent? |
| 22:12.47 | Tem|work | whoever you are, BOOYEAH |
| 22:13.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Tem|AFK: <standard statement about nothing set in stone, etc> :p |
| 22:13.37 | Tem|work | NHTS: <standard GTFO statement about pissing in my cherios> |
| 22:13.42 | NightHawkTheSane | :D |
| 22:14.15 | NightHawkTheSane | it probably WILL see a CD reduction. |
| 22:15.55 | Amarande | Tem: there are three basic rules of classes |
| 22:16.01 | Amarande | 1) My class is either fine or needs a boost |
| 22:16.09 | Amarande | 2) The class that's designed to counter my class is overpowered and needs a nerf |
| 22:16.22 | Amarande | 3) The class that my class is designed to counter is fine, and needs to L2P |
| 22:16.47 | Tem|work | yeah well aparently DKs who poop all over rogues are getting a nerf because rogues cried |
| 22:16.47 | NightHawkTheSane | im pretty sure those are the rules for people bitching about classes. |
| 22:16.59 | Hirsute | You know, I've never called for a nerf. Closest I came was back when Shammies were Horde-only, and then I just wanted to be able to roll one on Alliance side. |
| 22:17.03 | Tem|work | so aparently rogues are not fine and need to L2P |
| 22:17.32 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* i think the RS nerf is totally justifie |
| 22:17.32 | NightHawkTheSane | d |
| 22:17.41 | Tem|work | I generally agree |
| 22:17.49 | Tem|work | but it still saddens me |
| 22:18.01 | Tem|work | I liked big numbers, though :( |
| 22:18.03 | NightHawkTheSane | well, any damage decrease will do that. :P |
| 22:18.20 | Tem|work | I got a 4k runestrike the other day while soloing |
| 22:18.25 | Tem|work | (at level 72) |
| 22:18.31 | Amarande | ah, I never played my DK past 66 |
| 22:18.34 | Amarande | then I deleted her |
| 22:18.46 | Tem|work | what on earth for? |
| 22:19.45 | mikma | tem|work: 4k at lvl72 is nice |
| 22:19.47 | NeoTron | runestrike while leveling experience: wtf did the mob just die for?! |
| 22:19.56 | mikma | lol |
| 22:20.04 | Amarande | hmm, I think I just found the ultimate spot to set down your [Romantic Picnic Basket] |
| 22:20.07 | mikma | its nice when rs ans ss crit |
| 22:20.27 | mikma | 4.2k and 3.3k bam! |
| 22:21.00 | Amarande | Nice, flat, grassy spot and probably THE most private romantic spot in Azeroth |
| 22:21.24 | Amarande | http://www.lunasanguine.com/images/WoWScrnShot_120508_171921.jpg |
| 22:21.59 | Tem|work | WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN |
| 22:22.58 | mikma | amarande: ungoro is nicer than that |
| 22:24.37 | Corr-work | ungoro is awfully greeb |
| 22:24.40 | Corr-work | green. |
| 22:26.21 | Amarande | mikma: ungoro isn't as remote, though |
| 22:26.22 | Amarande | and has mobs |
| 22:26.36 | Amarande | you don't want to be attacked by raptors while enjoying a romantic retreat, do you? |
| 22:27.04 | Amarande | hmm |
| 22:27.11 | Amarande | I wonder if I can get all the way around the south coast and back to tanaris |
| 22:27.13 | mikma | 2 places top that. hidden farms. |
| 22:27.45 | Amarande | there's also another Feralas nook a little further south than the SS, at 43,97 |
| 22:27.57 | Amarande | as for how I'm not at full health in the SS, that's because I fell off a cliff while getting down from exploring a previous spot |
| 22:27.58 | Corr-work | my favorite location in the game? i'd have to think about that |
| 22:28.15 | Tekkub | Winterspring |
| 22:28.25 | Amarande | yeah, Winterspring is awesome :) |
| 22:28.28 | Amarande | there's also the Hinterlands |
| 22:28.29 | mikma | tekkub: liar! |
| 22:28.31 | Tekkub | Grizz HIlls will likely trump that though, once I get there |
| 22:28.37 | Amarande | though the Hinterlands sometimes make me feel a bit of pain for the real world :( |
| 22:28.44 | mikma | there we go |
| 22:28.56 | Amarande | For the days when the real world used to have tracts of unspoiled wilderness like that |
| 22:29.00 | Tekkub | mikma, aye, I've not been there yet so |
| 22:29.05 | mikma | and yes tekkub, grizzly is by far the best zone yet |
| 22:29.24 | Amarande | It didn't help in terms of thinking about that that the last time I was questing Hinterlands seriously, I was listening to 'Last Resort' by the Eagles, too |
| 22:29.25 | linear` | can i make some use Dismount() and CallCompanion |
| 22:29.31 | Tekkub | It's probably gonna be one huge ongoing bear orgasm for me, I'm sure |
| 22:29.32 | linear` | someone* |
| 22:29.45 | linear` | anyone test this |
| 22:29.53 | linear` | using like loadstring |
| 22:30.08 | Tekkub | "make"? |
| 22:30.10 | mikma | tekkub: you sure will, and you will cry when the quests end |
| 22:30.32 | Amarande | I wonder what the Hinterlands would be like if they were real |
| 22:30.41 | Amarande | Probably Revantusk being run over by bulldozers and replaced with overpriced houses :( |
| 22:30.47 | linear` | i mean i have someone do whatever loadstring i have with addoncomms |
| 22:30.53 | linear` | and i put Dismount() in it |
| 22:31.03 | Amarande | Venture Co. bulldozers, if Azeroth was real, doubtless. :P |
| 22:31.06 | Tekkub | don't fuck with other users |
| 22:31.33 | Amarande | linear`: that's a good way to get your name blacklisted in terms of people ever being willing to use your addons :) |
| 22:31.45 | Tekkub | and if you do write an addon that loadstrings and executes arbitrary code form comm, everyone here will turn against you |
| 22:31.57 | pastamancer | more importantly, don't loadstring anything coming from another player |
| 22:32.11 | linear` | um |
| 22:32.14 | linear` | im just curious if it works |
| 22:32.17 | linear` | who said im gonna do it |
| 22:32.19 | pastamancer | yes, it does |
| 22:32.24 | pastamancer | which is why you shouldn't |
| 22:32.29 | Amarande | dang. |
| 22:32.29 | linear` | i dont know if it was one of those blocked ones |
| 22:32.38 | Amarande | another romantic picnic spot I just found that's so secret I can't even give you coords! :) |
| 22:32.41 | Tekkub | then test it manually |
| 22:32.48 | Amarande | say |
| 22:32.49 | Tekkub | blocking has nothing to do with comm |
| 22:32.56 | Amarande | how far south do you have to go down the feralas coast before you change zone, anyway? |
| 22:33.00 | linear` | ori could just ask here and get a quick answer |
| 22:33.05 | Tekkub | if it's blocked, it won't run form the command line |
| 22:33.12 | Amarande | I'm almost halfway down silithus and I'm still in feralas |
| 22:33.17 | pastamancer | dear lazyweb |
| 22:33.24 | Amarande | hell, I'm off the feralas MAP and I'm still in feralas |
| 22:34.50 | Amarande | lemme guess, I'm going to officially be in feralas until I go all the way around the coast to the south beach of tanaris? |
| 22:36.50 | Amarande | they should put some super super secret bonus stuff in these areas |
| 22:37.05 | Amarande | heh, speaking of favorite zones and such |
| 22:37.26 | Amarande | what is the single most remote spot, in the sense of being totally away from anywhere actually useful in a questing, travel, or progression sense? |
| 22:37.52 | Amarande | am I right that it's probably the SW tip of Kalimdor? :) |
| 22:38.05 | Amarande | btw, I mean only in terms of "spots that have land that is reachable without exploits" |
| 22:38.13 | Gnarfoz | lots of swimming there |
| 22:38.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Tekkub: there were surprisingly few bears in grizzly hills |
| 22:38.26 | Tekkub | and furblogs? |
| 22:38.30 | linear` | im making an addon for dual boxing anyways |
| 22:38.31 | Tekkub | they're bears too! :P |
| 22:38.39 | NightHawkTheSane | okay, there's a fair bit of furbolgs |
| 22:38.45 | mikma | amarande: scream "BABANAS RULE" when you get to the hidden farm |
| 22:39.06 | Tekkub | linear`.... linear`> im just curious if it works |
| 22:39.06 | Tekkub | <linear`> who said im gonna do it |
| 22:39.11 | Tekkub | EXACTLY |
| 22:39.12 | Tekkub | :P |
| 22:39.22 | Amarande | mikma: what zone? |
| 22:39.25 | Tekkub | you wouldn't ask if you weren't gonna try |
| 22:39.28 | Amarande | kalimdor or EK? |
| 22:39.35 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: the one you just suggested |
| 22:39.40 | linear` | uh |
| 22:39.47 | linear` | i meant releasing the addon |
| 22:39.51 | mikma | amarande: just continue running along the coastline |
| 22:40.02 | Gnarfoz | swimming, you mean ^^ |
| 22:40.06 | Gnarfoz | can't walk there |
| 22:40.19 | NightHawkTheSane | linear`: just.. out of curiosity, whats your username on wowi/wowace? :) |
| 22:40.25 | Amarande | I think if I wasn't a warlock with glyphed unending breath, I'd be hating this |
| 22:40.37 | Gnarfoz | hating what |
| 22:40.52 | Gnarfoz | you don't need to dive, swimming is enough :P |
| 22:41.30 | Amarande | well, the zone finally gave way to silithus :) |
| 22:41.31 | linear` | i dont have one |
| 22:41.33 | Hirsute | glyphed unending breath gives a swimspeed increase, yes? |
| 22:41.38 | Amarande | Hirsute: yeah |
| 22:41.47 | NightHawkTheSane | only 20% though |
| 22:41.56 | Amarande | Night: any more and it'd have to be a major glyph really |
| 22:41.59 | Amarande | it's almost OP as it is |
| 22:42.00 | Hirsute | Still better than nothing. |
| 22:42.04 | Gnarfoz | there's belts for that, anyway |
| 22:42.06 | Amarande | given that unending breath is virtually a freebie spell |
| 22:42.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: and yet, druids get 50% |
| 22:42.14 | NightHawkTheSane | on top of their already 50% |
| 22:42.16 | Hirsute | Need to look into good minor glyphs for Warriors and Hunters. |
| 22:42.17 | Amarande | Almost nil mana cost, GCD instant |
| 22:42.17 | Gnarfoz | also, major glyphs < minor glyphs |
| 22:42.28 | Hirsute | NightHawkTheSane: Yes, but they have to be in travel form for that. |
| 22:42.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Hirsute: if you're swimming in water anyway.. :P |
| 22:42.42 | Adys | google down? |
| 22:42.48 | Gnarfoz | google goes down? |
| 22:42.55 | Adys | nvm just slow |
| 22:42.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: like a cheap whore |
| 22:43.04 | Gnarfoz | I see what you did there |
| 22:43.06 | Hirsute | And though I haven't played a druid in ages.... I think travel form is fairly squishy and wimpy, yes? |
| 22:43.06 | Adys | woo wine 1.1.10 |
| 22:43.19 | Gnarfoz | travel form is not for swimming mmmkay? |
| 22:43.20 | Amarande | weird |
| 22:43.24 | Amarande | I go far enough south from feralas |
| 22:43.29 | Amarande | and the zone changes to silithus ... |
| 22:43.32 | Amarande | then I swim further SOUTH |
| 22:43.36 | Amarande | and it changes back to feralas :| |
| 22:43.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Hirsute: aquatic form, to be sure. but both are not combat forms. but if you're not in combat.. where's the problem? :P |
| 22:43.57 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: welcome to world of explorationcraft ^^ |
| 22:44.32 | Hirsute | NightHawkTheSane: None, until you end up in combat. |
| 22:44.42 | Hirsute | Of course, you can just switch out. |
| 22:44.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Hirsute: then you shift to your combat form :P |
| 22:45.09 | Gnarfoz | it's a major non-issue imho ^^ |
| 22:45.16 | NightHawkTheSane | indeed |
| 22:45.21 | mikma | amarande: are you swimming along the coastline? |
| 22:45.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Footrot (n=Footrot@CPE-121-222-122-58.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 22:45.59 | Amarande | Mikk: yeah |
| 22:46.01 | Amarande | er, mikma |
| 22:46.19 | mikma | omfg, how can you people fail in that |
| 22:46.34 | Gnarfoz | mikma: makes you go like this, right? http://www.shrani.si/f/3l/Bx/lVwH1wp/174341.png ^^ |
| 22:46.40 | mikma | are you fisker-'s brother or something |
| 22:46.45 | Amarande | mikma: I'm just wondering why I'm still in Feralas after I've gone south of Silithus |
| 22:46.55 | Amarande | and even though the zone -changed to- Silithus at one point |
| 22:47.05 | Amarande | by which point I was ALREADY south of Silithus, since there were no coords |
| 22:47.06 | Gnarfoz | because WoW |
| 22:47.25 | Gnarfoz | you'd be suprised what kind of stuff goes on if you were to encounter it ^^ |
| 22:47.28 | Amarande | I'm actually surprised Blizzard went to the trouble to put actual terrain here |
| 22:47.44 | Gnarfoz | come back when you reach the farm :p |
| 22:47.47 | Amarande | I would have thought they'd just block it off with fatiguey water and NML anyone who somehow managed to get past, like hyjal |
| 22:47.54 | mikma | amarande: well there is a cave on top of hills in dun morogh. you enter the cave and your zone changes to silithus |
| 22:48.03 | Gnarfoz | NML didn't even exist when that terrain was released, Amarande |
| 22:48.04 | Amarande | mikma: to SILITHUS?! |
| 22:48.07 | mikma | amarande: anyway.... |
| 22:48.07 | Amarande | that's not even on the same continent :) |
| 22:48.14 | mikma | amarande: scream "BABANAS RULE" when you get to the hidden farm |
| 22:48.26 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: wasn't it possible to blink into hyjal when they first created Kalimdor though? |
| 22:48.36 | Gnarfoz | didn't need to blink |
| 22:48.45 | mikma | amarande: yes, cave in dun morogh changes your zonetext to silithus. |
| 22:48.49 | NightHawkTheSane | just needed to jump right |
| 22:48.58 | Gnarfoz | jump a bit to be able to walk over the gate |
| 22:49.00 | Gnarfoz | that's all ^^ |
| 22:49.02 | Gnarfoz | or rather, was all |
| 22:49.10 | Gnarfoz | not even any wall walking required |
| 22:49.12 | Footrot | Does anyone know know why SendChatMessage("Blah", "RAID"), when called during OnUpdate() would often fail to actually output anything to my own raid chat frame but still have *most* raid members able to see the message? |
| 22:49.25 | mikma | they had nasty invisible walls in Mount Hyjal |
| 22:49.29 | Gnarfoz | nah |
| 22:49.32 | Gnarfoz | they were added later |
| 22:49.51 | Gnarfoz | you could go right up to the gate |
| 22:50.02 | Gnarfoz | and on the other side, no walls, either |
| 22:50.08 | mikma | the place in wintersprings that allowed you to enter had invisible walls |
| 22:50.14 | Gnarfoz | not at first <3 |
| 22:50.20 | Amarande | why did they want to keep people out of hyjal so badly, anyway? |
| 22:50.26 | Gnarfoz | because it's not a zone |
| 22:50.33 | Amarande | there's terrain there, so why is it any different from say the south coast of kalimdor? |
| 22:50.45 | Corr-work | because it wasn't The Blizzard Way |
| 22:50.54 | Amarande | technically, the very southwestern part of kalimdor is no-zone too |
| 22:50.57 | Corr-work | it wasn't meant to be seen, so it COULD not be seen |
| 22:51.03 | mikma | there are several places in azeroth that cant be entered =P |
| 22:51.10 | Amarande | only the top halves of the spaces on the world map that correspond to Silithus and Un'Goro actually have zones |
| 22:51.13 | Gnarfoz | because compared to an easter-egg farm tacked onto the south eastern coast of kalimdor |
| 22:51.24 | mikma | amarande: yeah but keep swiming along the coastline |
| 22:51.26 | Gnarfoz | Hyjal is quite a bit more "high profile" |
| 22:51.38 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: think they'll ever make it a zone? |
| 22:51.43 | Gnarfoz | doubt it |
| 22:51.49 | Amarande | or is there some sort of extensive coding thing that would be required, like adding flying to azeroth? |
| 22:51.51 | Corr-work | they have this hangup about letting people into "unfinished" areas. i don't know why. |
| 22:51.59 | Gnarfoz | no, they could just remove the portal |
| 22:52.13 | Gnarfoz | but... there's no content there, at all |
| 22:52.17 | Amarande | they should maybe make it a PvP area |
| 22:52.25 | Gnarfoz | why?> |
| 22:52.28 | Amarande | although there's still unfinished PvP areas to finish before that |
| 22:52.33 | Amarande | like the azshara battleground |
| 22:52.42 | Gnarfoz | like the == the only one |
| 22:52.44 | Amarande | say, do you get kicked out if you go a distance into the azshara BG cave? |
| 22:52.45 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 22:52.53 | Gnarfoz | there is no BG cave |
| 22:52.59 | Gnarfoz | the entrance portal "caves" are stubs |
| 22:53.22 | Gnarfoz | there'd be no reason not to let people go into something that is a mere "hole in the mountain" ^^ |
| 22:53.39 | Gnarfoz | they're like, 10y deep :\ |
| 22:54.10 | Gnarfoz | anyway, there is basically no content that would make sense to put into Hyjal |
| 22:54.17 | Gnarfoz | unless they majorly advance the lore |
| 22:54.21 | Gnarfoz | (time wise) |
| 22:54.23 | mikma | i still am waiting for old ironforge, and the instance in wetlands |
| 22:54.32 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: they could copout and make it a BG I guess, though I don't know if the lore allows for even that |
| 22:54.40 | Gnarfoz | it doesn't |
| 22:54.53 | Corr-work | when has that stopped them? |
| 22:55.01 | foxlit | Why doesn't it? |
| 22:55.13 | Amarande | I'm kinda not really familiar with Hyjal lore |
| 22:55.17 | foxlit | Sprinkle some magical faerie dust over the world tree corpse, and you've got yourself an alliance v horde standoff :) |
| 22:55.25 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: lol, indeed |
| 22:55.40 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: wowwiki ftw! go go go ;-) |
| 22:56.46 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (i=188aea6e@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 22:56.46 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 22:56.47 | foxlit | but anyway, world tree -> emerald dream -> old gods. |
| 22:57.09 | Amarande | heh, maybe we'll see Hyjal as part of the emerald dream expansion then |
| 22:57.12 | foxlit | and voila, PvE content incoming. |
| 22:57.28 | Amarande | maybe we'll find that the four portals are fake, and you have to do something in each to resurrect the world tree, or some such |
| 22:57.43 | Amarande | which totally sucks, lore-wise |
| 22:57.46 | Amarande | but makes for great game content :S |
| 22:58.01 | Footrot | Does anyone know know why SendChatMessage("Blah", "RAID"), when called during OnUpdate() would often fail to actually output anything to my own raid chat frame but still have *most* raid members able to see the message? |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:59.47 | MentalPower | Footrot: though shall not spam |
| 22:59.57 | Footrot | ? |
| 23:00.10 | mikma | i'm saying its the throttle that buttsecks you |
| 23:00.40 | Footrot | It's a message that appears once every 10 seconds. That shouldn't be throttled, should it? |
| 23:03.49 | Footrot | Another symptom is that often, SendChatMessage("Whisper me to bid on this item", "RAID_WARNING") will result in no message, but you still get the raid warning sound. |
| 23:06.06 | Amarande | well, I've finally reached the No Zone |
| 23:06.08 | Amarande | still no sign of a farm yet |
| 23:07.14 | mikma | its there, far far away along the coastline |
| 23:07.54 | Amarande | too bad I don't have a WoW sweetie on Turalyon to sit out here with |
| 23:10.00 | pastamancer | I'll create a level 1 and you can summon me... but only if I get to be the big spoon |
| 23:16.16 | p3lim | ckknight: havent had much time to work on PB4? |
| 23:16.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-45-198.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:16.18 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:16.34 | ckknight | no, p3lim, been too involved in work and such |
| 23:16.54 | p3lim | been wanting to see how it would turn out |
| 23:16.56 | Amarande | wb Lopeppeppy :) |
| 23:17.05 | Lopeppeppy | Heyo. |
| 23:17.57 | ckknight | p3lim: yea, I doubt I'll do any more on it, though, sorry. |
| 23:18.02 | Amarande | btw, what level fishing do you need to fish in the No Zone? |
| 23:18.07 | p3lim | ckknight: ever? |
| 23:18.13 | ckknight | probably not. |
| 23:18.18 | p3lim | thats a shame |
| 23:18.19 | ckknight | p3lim: curseforge/wowace takes up most of my time |
| 23:18.32 | ckknight | and for addons, I'm working on a project with Kaelten |
| 23:18.38 | p3lim | oh? |
| 23:18.42 | ckknight | though we haven't released any details for it yet |
| 23:18.43 | Amarande | by 'no zone' I mean ones that don't give you a chat channel at all, and in which GuildFu and the like list you as being 'unknown' zone |
| 23:18.50 | Amarande | or are you even able to fish at all there? |
| 23:18.50 | ckknight | yea, it's not curse-related |
| 23:19.00 | p3lim | aha |
| 23:19.10 | p3lim | addon? or perhaps a site of some sort |
| 23:19.18 | mikma | i doubt its wow-related either lololo |
| 23:19.22 | ckknight | well, both, actually |
| 23:19.25 | ckknight | first time using Ace3, though |
| 23:19.29 | ckknight | it's not a bad framework |
| 23:19.30 | ckknight | :-P |
| 23:19.40 | p3lim | hm |
| 23:20.06 | p3lim | atleast from what I talked with you earlier, the concept of PB4 is unique |
| 23:20.29 | p3lim | thats why I wanted to keep tracked with it |
| 23:20.32 | ckknight | yea |
| 23:20.47 | ckknight | I'm doing a similar coding style in the new project, but not so stringent |
| 23:20.55 | ckknight | e.g. I'm using 'else' |
| 23:21.13 | ckknight | but everything is documented |
| 23:21.29 | p3lim | hm |
| 23:21.37 | p3lim | could you tell what it will be? |
| 23:21.43 | p3lim | a snoop :p |
| 23:21.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:21.57 | ckknight | sorry, not until we're further along |
| 23:21.59 | ckknight | I promised |
| 23:22.03 | p3lim | sure |
| 23:22.15 | ckknight | we'll be having open alpha/beta testing, though |
| 23:22.20 | p3lim | nice nice |
| 23:22.42 | p3lim | got a few thoughts about what it could be |
| 23:22.46 | p3lim | :) |
| 23:22.48 | ckknight | one good thing about me working on this is that I'll be making changes to curseforge to make things easier for me |
| 23:22.57 | ckknight | i.e. before we do any localizing, I'll finish curseforge's localization app |
| 23:23.01 | mikma | no, its neither of those p3lim |
| 23:23.04 | ckknight | s/i.e./e.g./ |
| 23:23.07 | p3lim | mikma: damn |
| 23:24.17 | p3lim | i just wish there would be one site |
| 23:24.19 | Dashkal | ckknight: tease! |
| 23:24.27 | p3lim | just one site, for everything that has to do with addons |
| 23:24.28 | ckknight | Dashkal: I did it for the lulz |
| 23:24.40 | p3lim | that would be extremely well maintained |
| 23:24.41 | ckknight | p3lim: meh, I'm not so sure about that |
| 23:25.02 | p3lim | its a wish, not a request :) |
| 23:25.29 | p3lim | we have (as far I know) three or four major sites for addons |
| 23:25.44 | ckknight | wowui, wowi, and curse |
| 23:25.46 | ckknight | what else? |
| 23:25.47 | Dashkal | competition == very good |
| 23:25.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@85.24.18.152.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 23:25.53 | mikma | p3lim: wowmatrix |
| 23:25.54 | p3lim | curse is to be removed? |
| 23:26.03 | ckknight | p3lim: ...? |
| 23:26.05 | p3lim | wowmatrix is something I didnt count in on that mikma |
| 23:26.06 | ckknight | yea, I'm fond of competition |
| 23:26.20 | p3lim | as i think more of it as a joke |
| 23:26.22 | Arrowmaster | wowui doesnt count |
| 23:26.24 | p3lim | than a real site |
| 23:26.29 | ckknight | wowmatrix just leeches bandwidth from other sites |
| 23:26.34 | Arrowmaster | theres nothing 'quality' about that site |
| 23:26.43 | p3lim | wowui cant compete with the other two, CurseForge and WoWI |
| 23:26.54 | AbsoRayne | Wow |
| 23:26.57 | AbsoRayne | This really sucks |
| 23:27.03 | p3lim | ckknight: i meant, curse is a guild, curseforge is an addon site |
| 23:27.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124-168-131-200.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:27.12 | p3lim | though, at the moment, curse is also a addon site. |
| 23:27.14 | Arrowmaster | curse isnt a guild |
| 23:27.16 | p3lim | is that to be removed? |
| 23:27.22 | ckknight | curseforge is a addon development site, curse is an addon user site. |
| 23:27.38 | AbsoRayne | Who in here is Canadian, and is using Xplornet? |
| 23:27.42 | p3lim | like, everything that has to do with addons will be purged/removed from curse and continued at curseforge |
| 23:27.53 | ckknight | no, p3lim |
| 23:27.55 | ckknight | that's not happening |
| 23:27.59 | p3lim | ckknight: that explains a bit |
| 23:28.18 | p3lim | but are curseforge and curse somewhat shared? |
| 23:28.26 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 23:28.34 | ckknight | curse.com is supposed to be where users get their addons and such, curseforge (and wowace) is where developers can hack on their addons |
| 23:28.34 | p3lim | in the matter that authors use curseforge to work, and that work will be updated for curse? |
| 23:28.39 | Dashkal | AbsoRayne: Never heard of that ISP. Is it alberta-only? Maybe a branding of another major company? I'm on shaw. |
| 23:29.04 | p3lim | myself I use WoWI |
| 23:29.37 | p3lim | as it has the features I want, aswell beeing a pretty clean and end-user friendly |
| 23:30.05 | p3lim | i havent worked with curseforge yet though |
| 23:30.07 | mikma | we wouldnt cry much if we would lose you to wowace/curseforge |
| 23:30.16 | p3lim | mikma: :F |
| 23:30.25 | AbsoRayne | Dashkal: I dont think so |
| 23:30.32 | Amarande | so basically, wowi will become the only real source of addons for users, unless they are also addon devs themselves so they get access to the wowace/curseforge stuff? |
| 23:30.33 | pastamancer | mikma is full of sunshine and rainbows |
| 23:30.35 | AbsoRayne | All I know is, I cant get onto Vent with this ISP |
| 23:30.42 | AbsoRayne | and alot of people are having the same issue |
| 23:31.01 | mikma | pastamancer: sunshine lollipops... |
| 23:31.03 | p3lim | pastamancer: as always |
| 23:31.05 | Dashkal | AbsoRayne: very odd. No known issues of that form here. Neither the cable provider (Shaw) nor the DSL (Telus) |
| 23:31.34 | p3lim | Amarande: no |
| 23:31.35 | AbsoRayne | Dashkal: Were in a pretty rural area of Alberta (Millet), its about 45 minutes south of Edmonton |
| 23:31.49 | p3lim | Amarande: wowi is a mixed site, its friendly both for devs and end users |
| 23:31.58 | ckknight | Amarande: well, curseforge and wowace send their files to curse.com, which is separate from wowinterface |
| 23:32.04 | p3lim | while as curse and curseforge is two projects that coop with eachother |
| 23:32.16 | ckknight | yea, we have two teams and everything |
| 23:32.24 | ckknight | Kaelten and myself are curseforge |
| 23:32.30 | ckknight | some other guys are curse.com |
| 23:32.35 | ckknight | different goals and all |
| 23:32.41 | mikma | which one rules more |
| 23:32.42 | ckknight | makes sense to split em up |
| 23:32.49 | p3lim | ckknight: Kaelten is still in charge of wowace, yes? |
| 23:32.52 | Dashkal | Amarande: consider curse to be the "user side" of the greater cloud that is curse/curseforge/wowace and it'll make more sense |
| 23:32.55 | ckknight | sure is |
| 23:33.02 | ckknight | well, it's like the old Macintosh vs. Lisa teams at Apple |
| 23:33.05 | ckknight | ...we claim Macintosh |
| 23:33.15 | p3lim | will that site die out one day, in favor to curseforge? or stick to what it is right now |
| 23:33.44 | p3lim | as curseforge is a more extended project of what wowace was intended to be |
| 23:33.51 | ckknight | p3lim: nah, there was an idea about that floating around, but instead, we just decided to keep the sites separate, with different goals and culture, but running off the same codebase |
| 23:33.59 | Amarande | hmm |
| 23:34.02 | Amarande | I see trees up ahead |
| 23:34.05 | Amarande | wonder if that's the farm |
| 23:34.11 | p3lim | ckknight: they share forums, dont they? |
| 23:34.26 | ckknight | not positive on that, I don't do forums - too much stress |
| 23:34.32 | p3lim | :) |
| 23:34.39 | Pneumatus | curse/cf or cf/wowace? |
| 23:34.40 | Amarande | ckknight: yeah, that's basically what I was thinking about, if curse disappears in favor of curseforge, then we'll be limited to what's on wowi unless we're devs |
| 23:34.48 | Amarande | not that contributing addons is a bad thing, but still |
| 23:34.54 | p3lim | atleast when I get my subscription mail from wowace, i sometimes get redirected to the curseforge forums |
| 23:34.57 | ckknight | Amarande: it won't die out. |
| 23:35.07 | ckknight | p3lim: that might be a bug. |
| 23:35.17 | p3lim | Pneumatus: curse/(cf/wowace) |
| 23:35.25 | ckknight | p3lim: in any event, it's running off the same box. |
| 23:35.29 | Amarande | I try to think of something that I might be able to contribute an addon for, that I'd actually have an interest in using said addon as well (seeing as there's no point to creating an addon you'll never use), and I can't really think of much of anything I use addons for that there aren't addons for |
| 23:35.48 | Amarande | back when 3.0 had come out, maybe, since then there were all kinds of things there weren't 3.0 addons for :) |
| 23:35.49 | Hirsute | Wait, what? Curse is going away? |
| 23:35.51 | ckknight | Amarande: sometimes there needs to be competition for addons |
| 23:35.54 | Dashkal | Hirsute: no |
| 23:35.55 | ckknight | Hirsute: no. |
| 23:35.58 | Pneumatus | cf/wowace forums are different for sure |
| 23:36.00 | Amarande | But then addons became more up to date, and I also cut back on the number of addons I use :) |
| 23:36.01 | p3lim | Amarande: at some extent, curseforge is end-user friendly |
| 23:36.03 | Hirsute | Oh, okay. |
| 23:36.05 | p3lim | you can download zips there too |
| 23:36.13 | NightHawkTheSane | since when do you have to be a dev to use wowace/cf? |
| 23:36.19 | Hirsute | Jumped back into the channel, and got confuzzled. |
| 23:36.29 | ckknight | wowace/curseforge is for developers and power users |
| 23:36.31 | ckknight | not normal users. |
| 23:36.35 | Pneumatus | they are developer communities |
| 23:36.52 | ckknight | basically, if you know how to properly file tickets, you're welcome on wowace/curseforge |
| 23:36.53 | ckknight | :-P |
| 23:36.56 | NightHawkTheSane | but you don't HAVE to be a developer to use them. :P |
| 23:37.03 | NightHawkTheSane | you just have to not be an idiot, really |
| 23:37.10 | ckknight | pretty much |
| 23:37.14 | p3lim | true |
| 23:37.21 | Pneumatus | well, if you are an idiot you tend to get treated as such :) |
| 23:37.33 | p3lim | like mikma treats me :D |
| 23:37.34 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: "not be an idiot"... |
| 23:38.09 | Amarande | think I just found the farm |
| 23:38.15 | p3lim | I know I can be a dick sometimes, but my intentions are good |
| 23:38.15 | ckknight | NightHawkTheSane: you're idiophobic. |
| 23:38.24 | Amarande | tauren looking buildings? |
| 23:38.46 | p3lim | working on some tanking-friendly nameplates atm |
| 23:39.05 | NightHawkTheSane | ckknight: i wouldn't say -phobic, more like.. bigoted against idiots. |
| 23:39.06 | Amarande | tanking-friendly nameplates? :) |
| 23:39.26 | ckknight | well, homophobes are the ones who bash gays |
| 23:39.30 | Amarande | Night: "misidiotistic"? |
| 23:39.54 | p3lim | Amarande: yeah, proper threat display, easy overview etc |
| 23:39.58 | Corr-work | ckknight: something of a misnomer, i think |
| 23:40.05 | ckknight | ...yea |
| 23:40.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: misanthrope is the proper term. :D |
| 23:40.13 | Amarande | ok, from the farm at southwest kalimdor |
| 23:40.18 | Syzgyn | o.O All of a sudden I'm getting 'Wrong Certificate Name' warnings on WoWI |
| 23:40.19 | Amarande | can I keep going to tanaris or do I have to go back the way I came? |
| 23:40.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:40.46 | ckknight | so NightHawkTheSane, you're saying we need to start a referrendum called Prop 9? |
| 23:41.19 | NightHawkTheSane | ckknight: to prevent idiots from reproducing? think that would work? |
| 23:41.20 | ckknight | make marriage a covenant between two non-idiots? |
| 23:41.21 | ckknight | :-P |
| 23:41.24 | Dashkal | Amarande: the tauren farm? Head to tanaris, it's closer |
| 23:41.28 | NightHawkTheSane | oh man, best idea ever. |
| 23:42.20 | Amarande | ckknight: that could have problems |
| 23:42.29 | ckknight | how's that? |
| 23:42.47 | Amarande | in particular, if you went by IQ, you'd probably be seen as discriminating against the elderly |
| 23:43.01 | Amarande | due to the fact that as you age, your chronological age keeps increasing, but your mental age should presumably hit a limit |
| 23:43.12 | ckknight | haven't we instituted a Logan's Run policy yet? |
| 23:43.18 | Lopeppeppy | "I'm growing older but not up." |
| 23:43.20 | Amarande | and then as you become elderly, your mental capacity decreases ... so your IQ would look poor eventually |
| 23:44.19 | mikma | ckknight: logan, wolverine! |
| 23:44.28 | ckknight | hehe |
| 23:44.49 | ckknight | Logan's Run is about institutionalized murder when you reach a certain age |
| 23:45.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Godzmack_ (n=Godzmack@85-220-10-51.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is) |
| 23:45.52 | Amarande | oh great, now I'm really going to get lost |
| 23:45.58 | Amarande | I just discovered a cave east of the tauren farm |
| 23:46.04 | Amarande | 1) does this have any mobs, and 2) does it go anywhere? |
| 23:46.14 | Dashkal | iirc no/no |
| 23:47.33 | Lopeppeppy | Now that my lists are all organized I want to get out and get the shopping done *now*. *laugh* |
| 23:47.33 | Amarande | Lopeppeppy: my xmas list was simpler |
| 23:47.33 | Dashkal | Lopeppeppy: sounds about right. Get it over with now that you have the plan :p |
| 23:47.33 | Amarande | "gift card" "gift card" "gift card" and for a change "gift card" :) |
| 23:47.33 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1, you use linode, right? |
| 23:47.45 | Lopeppeppy | Dashkal, I won't go out to the mall parking lots alone when it's dark. Girl thing, you know, safety and all. I can't go until tomorrow. |
| 23:47.54 | Amarande | Dashkal: 3) is it easy to get hopelessly lost in? |
| 23:47.57 | Lopeppeppy | But I'm getting up at 5am tomorrow, rawr!! |
| 23:48.08 | Amarande | it's probably going to be just as dark at 5am though |
| 23:48.11 | Dashkal | Amarande: If I'm thinking of the right one, it's one of the standard cave maps |
| 23:48.32 | Amarande | Lemme guess, SW Kalimdor was a test bed for various objects that were never removed afterwards |
| 23:48.34 | Lopeppeppy | Amarande, I won't leave home until 6, and at 6:30 it's perfectly dawn, no worries. |
| 23:48.53 | Lopeppeppy | And there are tons of caves to nowhere all over the place, EK as well as Kalimdor.' |
| 23:49.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:49.12 | Amarande | Is where you live that dangerous, in terms of going out at night? |
| 23:49.12 | Dashkal | I'm stretching here and could easily be wrong but I think it's the loop with a single crossover one (hibernal cavern and the teldrassil ones use it) |
| 23:49.22 | bleeter | kd3: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=474908 ;) |
| 23:49.31 | Dashkal | erm, not hibernal, other one in SP. Whatever, single loop anyway |
| 23:49.51 | Amarande | I've ridden the subway at 5am in New York City from a station in Brooklyn next to a hotel that feels the need to use bulletproof glass on its receptionist desk window |
| 23:50.03 | Amarande | and I've not seen any violence before or during the ride ... |
| 23:51.23 | Corr-work | your experience is not necessarily representative of the experiences of everybody |
| 23:51.42 | Lopeppeppy | Amarande, the parking lots are so full that you have to park way out and walk. It's not a "dangerous neighborhood", but it's stupid to take risks you don't need to take. |
| 23:52.03 | Lopeppeppy | If you're not a female, walking alone in the dark where there are no streetlights... well, you don't understand. |
| 23:52.29 | Dashkal | Male, been mugged. I get the idea. |
| 23:52.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Grissom (n=Grissom@206.75.115.46) |
| 23:52.54 | Lopeppeppy | Female, been worse, won't happen again. |
| 23:55.07 | Dashkal | Yeah, gotcha. Risks bad |
| 23:55.27 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.hulu.com/watch/28811/the-simpsons-say-chowder |
| 23:55.32 | Lopeppeppy | I take them -- I went to Blizcon, didn't I? :) |
| 23:55.38 | Shirik | heh |
| 23:55.46 | Dashkal | not quite what I meant :p |
| 23:56.04 | Corr-work | You see, Theo, taking risks is like eating puddin' pops. |
| 23:56.19 | Corr-work | Too many at once and you'll get brain freeze. |
| 23:56.47 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: "US only" ftl. |
| 23:57.08 | Shirik | wtf is a puddin pop |
| 23:57.30 | Lopeppeppy | Frozen pudding popsicle. |
| 23:57.33 | Corr-work | pudding pop was like... a chocolate-flavored popsicle popular in the early 90's |
| 23:57.35 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: bleh, lame. |
| 23:57.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Cralor` (i=62d8db99@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-23f834d9229926b1) |
| 23:57.52 | Gnarfoz | it's probably on YouTube 500 times, anyway. |
| 23:57.57 | NightHawkTheSane | probably |
| 23:59.17 | Gnarfoz | funny how google video search gives me that exact hulu link as the second result. :P |
| 23:59.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 23:59.58 | NightHawkTheSane | sometimes i think google may eventually search itself out of existence. then i come to my senses. |
