| 00:00.10 | WobWork | Now you're just a feral |
| 00:00.10 | WobWork | in plate |
| 00:00.16 | WobWork | and zombies |
| 00:00.23 | Dashkal | WobWork: in role. The playstyle is more than a little different, and to my liking |
| 00:00.27 | Adys | braaaiiinnnsss |
| 00:00.45 | cbreak | braaaaiiiinnnnsss zombies are too slow |
| 00:00.47 | Amarande | the weird thing is that if I was in T6, I would have a much easier time finding a T6 guild than I would looking for a kara guild |
| 00:00.52 | cbreak | you should pick a faster type :) |
| 00:00.56 | WobWork | They're not unreasonable, it's not like they gonna eat your eyes |
| 00:01.11 | Amarande | from what I've gathered, T6 guilds tend to raid more during the week, whereas less progressed ones tend to focus on the weekends (where I'm virtually unavailable due to normally working till 11pm) |
| 00:01.12 | Adys | <3 WobWork |
| 00:01.22 | Dashkal | So want JoCo to tour in my city... |
| 00:01.28 | Amarande | I wonder why that is |
| 00:01.40 | Amarande | you know, though, it also comes to mind that maybe guilds that raid during the week progress better than weekender guilds :) |
| 00:01.47 | WobWork | Amarande: try another time zone? |
| 00:01.53 | Dashkal | Ours raids Kara wed/thurs |
| 00:01.55 | cbreak | Amarande: the weekend is shorter, so less time to progress |
| 00:02.09 | Amarande | cbreak: I was thinking more that bad players are likely to play more on the weekends |
| 00:02.14 | Adys | dont try to be all logical and stuff with Amarande |
| 00:02.18 | cbreak | hmm... |
| 00:02.42 | Amarande | you know, the people who roll hunters because they thought it would be cool to have a kitty and are still using rank 1 bite at level 70 and go "wut's train beest?" |
| 00:02.59 | Amarande | oh wait, they wouldn't be on rank 1 bite |
| 00:03.11 | Amarande | since they're probably on their thirtieth kitty since they don't know 'wut's feed pet?' |
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| 00:03.21 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 00:03.32 | Dashkal | Amarande: gkick is such a handy concept... |
| 00:03.40 | Dashkal | huntard go back to pugs kthxbye |
| 00:03.51 | bleeter | obscure as hell mechanic is obscure as hell |
| 00:04.21 | Amarande | bleeter: feed pet is an obscure mechanic? :) |
| 00:04.32 | Dashkal | Though I do admit I found the pet training mechanic funky as hell. I'm glad they overhauled it |
| 00:04.38 | bleeter | no, learning new pet skills via taming pets and training your main pet back again |
| 00:04.55 | Amarande | yeah, that can be complicated to those who don't research the class before playing |
| 00:05.34 | bleeter | which'd be just about every new player who rolls that class first |
| 00:05.41 | Amarande | sadly, there are probably about 75% of hunters who consider feed pet an obscure mechanic too :| |
| 00:05.46 | Dashkal | It wasn't so much 'hard' or 'overly complicated'. I just found it clunky and a pain in the ass. |
| 00:06.09 | Amarande | I'm surprised I don't hear people asking in trade chat all the time why their pet wouldn't gain any training points, got unhappy, did less damage and left them |
| 00:06.53 | cbreak | the pet should eat the hunter when it is sufficiently hungry. |
| 00:06.59 | kd3 | ^ |
| 00:07.02 | Legorol | funny thing is: unless someone tells you, or you go to 3rd party sites, there is actually not a single hint in the game that you can gain a variety of pet abilities by training different pets |
| 00:07.05 | Amarande | cbreak: This |
| 00:07.11 | Amarande | :) |
| 00:07.27 | Legorol | most significant game mechanics of most classes are explained to you in the game |
| 00:07.41 | Legorol | the tame-secondary-pet mechanic is just not obvious and not explained |
| 00:07.43 | bleeter | Legorol: I thought it was very briefly mentioned in the class quest @ lvl 10 |
| 00:07.53 | bleeter | just so obscure, easy to miss |
| 00:08.06 | Legorol | at level 10 you have very little understanding of the game still |
| 00:08.12 | bleeter | precisely |
| 00:08.15 | Legorol | and this is one of the most obscure mechanics |
| 00:08.24 | Amarande | indeed ... at level 10 you are barely even your class at all |
| 00:08.40 | Amarande | most of the abilities you take for granted even in later Azeroth levels, you don't even have at 10 |
| 00:08.42 | cbreak | if it came later than level 10, people would not read the quests anymore though. it has to be in an early quest. |
| 00:08.45 | Amarande | or they're so weak they're not even usable yet |
| 00:08.52 | bleeter | of course, some people seem to expect you to read WoWWiki, EJ, WoWHead and everything before buying the game and absorb knowledge of all mechanics |
| 00:08.58 | Legorol | cbreak: you mean people actually read quests up to level 10? |
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| 00:09.12 | cbreak | maybe. I still read quests at level 70. |
| 00:09.24 | cbreak | some of them have great stories. |
| 00:09.26 | Legorol | i read all quests all the time. even the ones i have done 10 times. i like reading quests |
| 00:09.29 | Legorol | but most people don't |
| 00:09.45 | Dashkal | I've had guildies ask me why the hell I would ever read a quest? |
| 00:09.49 | bleeter | I like finding typos in Classic quests |
| 00:09.50 | cbreak | I skip over daylies though :) |
| 00:10.05 | Adys | oh |
| 00:10.13 | Adys | dragonhawks have noises now |
| 00:10.19 | Adys | flying mounts inc :) |
| 00:10.23 | Dashkal | Come to think of it, that might be part of why I prefer soloing... |
| 00:10.26 | Legorol | Sad occurrence today: as our raid was getting ready for Vashj, someone pressed the control console to open the bridge, whilst the majority of the raid wasn't there yet. |
| 00:10.29 | cbreak | motor bikes have noise too :( |
| 00:10.40 | Legorol | He simply couldn't understand why what he did was wrong, and why 80% of the raid got mad at him. |
| 00:10.55 | cbreak | Legorol: why was it wrong? |
| 00:11.09 | Legorol | cbreak: because an event/emote is played when you click the console, and most of the raid missed it |
| 00:11.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: .. first time on vashj or something? |
| 00:11.21 | Dashkal | While I don't understand that myself... refusal to understand -- bad sign |
| 00:11.23 | cbreak | oh, just because it looks cool. :) |
| 00:11.34 | Legorol | NightHawkTheSane: 2nd time, but most people in the raid haven't seen it yet |
| 00:11.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: ah, fair enough, it -is- pretty neat to see |
| 00:11.55 | NightHawkTheSane | after the 2nd or so time seeing though, you kinda stop caring |
| 00:11.59 | Legorol | yeah sure |
| 00:12.17 | cbreak | I started runing over the not-yet-quite-there bridge a few times :) |
| 00:12.23 | Legorol | but the problem was, he didn't understand why it should've occurred to him to maybe wait with it and check if it's ok to click |
| 00:12.48 | Legorol | player encounters random interactable object/NPC in a raid environment |
| 00:12.51 | bleeter | Legorol: huh? I'm in your guild? :P j/k |
| 00:12.52 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: mages can blink past the closed barrier. :p |
| 00:13.07 | Legorol | player doesn't think he should check first whether it's ok to click it/him/her |
| 00:13.12 | cbreak | oh! But I think I won't ever use that knowledge :/ |
| 00:13.50 | Legorol | I don't know, but I think it's obvious that before you interact with an object/NPC for the first time in a raid, you check to make sure it doesn't do anything |
| 00:13.55 | Legorol | See for example Mount Hyjal |
| 00:14.17 | bleeter | Legorol: where's the fun and excitement in that?? :P |
| 00:14.48 | Legorol | bleeter: we have given a DKP penalty to someone and temp-banned him for wiping us by talking to Jaina after being told that noone should talk to her |
| 00:15.36 | Legorol | part of the reason for treating it so harshly was that he's done it whilst we were still looting Anetheron, and the wipe made us almost unable to loot one of the items off of him |
| 00:16.11 | Adys | you call that harsh? |
| 00:16.18 | Neuro_Medivh | 50 DKP MINUS! |
| 00:16.21 | Legorol | uhm.. yeah |
| 00:16.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: o_0 heh, that happened to us once |
| 00:16.29 | bleeter | some shammy was doing something similar in my guild the other day. unsure of details, wasn't there. something about simply going wolf form wiped threat from the tank. |
| 00:16.37 | NightHawkTheSane | we had a good time fighting back through the waves of mob to get the guy his item :p |
| 00:16.39 | Adys | I dont know Im used to lead pug raids |
| 00:16.53 | Adys | if someone does shit like that in my raid he's kicked and never invited again |
| 00:16.58 | Adys | I warn people before |
| 00:17.05 | Legorol | well it was a mistake, not an intentional act |
| 00:17.09 | Legorol | he just wasn't paying attention |
| 00:17.15 | Adys | thats the problem |
| 00:17.26 | Adys | I suppose in a guild its more a friendly environment |
| 00:17.29 | cbreak | humans have the capacity to learn. |
| 00:17.31 | Legorol | if it was intentional, it'd have been gkick |
| 00:18.05 | Adys | in a pug, you're here because you got lucky and you're holding someone else's spot |
| 00:18.07 | Legorol | anyway, on a happy note: |
| 00:18.13 | Legorol | 2nd night on Vashj, and we got her to 9% |
| 00:18.15 | Legorol | definite progress |
| 00:18.22 | Adys | if you dont follow orders, dont read warnings or tend to fuck with the raid, you're out and never come back |
| 00:18.29 | cbreak | impressive. our best try was 7% I think |
| 00:18.30 | Adys | and grats :) |
| 00:18.35 | Legorol | Adys: indeed |
| 00:18.40 | cbreak | and that took months |
| 00:18.40 | Legorol | in a pug you should be harsher |
| 00:18.59 | Legorol | cbreak: we have the advantage of having skipped her and moved on to MH/BT |
| 00:19.11 | Legorol | but with expansion nearing we decided that doing boring bosses for loot is pointless |
| 00:19.20 | Adys | yeah |
| 00:19.22 | Legorol | so we want to try and kill Vashj and Kael before wotlk |
| 00:19.34 | Legorol | i'm actually so glad we got to that conclusion |
| 00:19.35 | Adys | we killed illidan recently and we might be going sunwell for fun |
| 00:19.39 | Adys | just to have people see them |
| 00:19.41 | cbreak | our goal is seeing illidan |
| 00:19.53 | Fogger | mmm, sourceName/arg4 is nil in C_L_E_U on auras. what gives? |
| 00:19.54 | Legorol | cbreak: we are 4/5 MH and 2/9 BT, and probably will stop there |
| 00:20.03 | Legorol | Vashj and Kael is now more important for us |
| 00:20.11 | cbreak | the third in bt is quite easy imho |
| 00:20.13 | Adys | i wish it was for us Legorol |
| 00:20.21 | Adys | took a year break ill never get the hand of adal title :/ |
| 00:20.30 | Legorol | cbreak: yes and no. We had most trouble with Shade :) |
| 00:20.51 | Legorol | the reason we are doing great on Vashj is we have a small core of excellent players, a few of us being very good strategist |
| 00:21.05 | Legorol | so we are tweaking the Vashj strategy to the strengths and weaknesses of individual raid members |
| 00:21.54 | Adys | strat60 is so much fun at 80 as mage |
| 00:21.54 | cbreak | back when my guild was raiding vashj, we had to do that every raid, since we had always changing lineup. it was a pain :( |
| 00:21.57 | Legorol | young kid with good reflexes, great dps but unable to multitask? put him on stairs and he'll happily clear a large section of elementals by himself |
| 00:22.28 | Legorol | experienced player with bad gear but excellent independent thinking? put him on flexible dps assignment on multiple targets |
| 00:23.25 | Legorol | cbreak: we also don't make raids mandatory, meaning the lineup is different each time |
| 00:23.38 | cbreak | I would love to kill vashj or kael, but I've given up on that. we're now in a guild alliance aiming for illidan. I hope we get back on track in wotlk :/ |
| 00:23.43 | Legorol | but we are slowly learning the fight from every angle so we can play up to the strenghts of the specific group |
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| 00:24.18 | Legorol | one thing that was interesting with Vashj: we found that we have to be much harsher about assessing individual performance than we are used to it |
| 00:24.29 | Legorol | if you can't fulfil a particular task, we put you on something else instead |
| 00:24.43 | Fogger | I moved from a kara guild to a guild that has MH/BT cleared, teamed up with another guild last week to do Vashj, and we do Kael this saturday :) |
| 00:24.59 | Fogger | fingers crossed. |
| 00:25.31 | Legorol | anyway, doing Vashj is probably the most fun I had raiding over the past year |
| 00:25.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: yeah, vashj is one of a few fights where individual effort and success is -very- important |
| 00:25.43 | cbreak | I loved stone face |
| 00:25.55 | cbreak | the only fight that really made me feel doing something |
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| 00:26.06 | Legorol | stone face? |
| 00:26.14 | cbreak | some boss in black temple |
| 00:26.22 | [dRaCo] | RoS, prolly |
| 00:26.27 | cbreak | essence of anger, and so on |
| 00:26.42 | bleeter | good god, they still ain't fixed the 2.4.0 lagouts :/ |
| 00:26.52 | Dewin | what lagouts? |
| 00:27.30 | bleeter | regular latency/mass dc's on select battlegroups/realms |
| 00:27.48 | Dewin | ah. |
| 00:28.00 | bleeter | makes me really wonder whether the servers are gunna handle Wrath at all |
| 00:28.05 | Dewin | I remember playing a different game on a server that had the problem for awhile |
| 00:28.20 | Dewin | And if you were in the lobby (as opposed to actually playing), you'd see *everybody* connect/disconnect |
| 00:28.29 | Dewin | so one time I managed to catch a mass D/C wave in the lobby |
| 00:28.34 | Dewin | oh my god the spam. |
| 00:28.42 | bleeter | wrt Wrath populations... Oceanics.... near daily. locked/high... /shrug |
| 00:28.48 | Dewin | Turns out the server had a bad nic |
| 00:28.58 | Adys | is it me or is strath on beta looking a LOT darker than live one? |
| 00:29.09 | bleeter | they were the realms that got most hit by the issue, they've 'fixed' those realms, now other realms having 'same' issue |
| 00:29.45 | Dewin | bleeter: I regularly get less latency on the PTR realm than on Earthen Ring. |
| 00:29.54 | Dewin | actually, over the last week, the PTR has been *more stable* |
| 00:30.19 | Dewin | I'll be testing my addon while my wife is having an odd case of multiple personality disorder with the instance server |
| 00:30.29 | Dewin | She tried to zone out when the server was having issues |
| 00:30.38 | Dewin | Ended up taking the durability loss of being dead, but being outside the instance alive. |
| 00:31.01 | bleeter | I've given up offering assistance in diagnostics |
| 00:31.27 | Legorol | offering diagnostics is useful.. got me a spot in TBC beta |
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| 00:32.25 | bleeter | Legorol: it works both ways, yes. I withdrew my support after realising I've been waiting near 5 months on a reponse on my query about 'how to legitimately launder $ through WoW' mail |
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| 00:32.54 | bleeter | got to the point I'm contemplating freelancing an article on how everyone can do it |
| 00:33.08 | Legorol | uhm.. what? |
| 00:33.14 | Legorol | laundering dollars through WoW? |
| 00:33.21 | Legorol | am I missing something vital here? |
| 00:33.34 | Wobin | Cash? |
| 00:33.37 | Wobin | I'm missing cash =( |
| 00:33.45 | bleeter | a knowledge of side-effects of current policies, yes you're missing that |
| 00:34.09 | Legorol | must be.. |
| 00:34.19 | Legorol | I can't see how you can legitimately invest or withdraw cash from WoW |
| 00:34.40 | Legorol | wouldn't either of those fall under something or another that the EULA/ToU prohibits? |
| 00:34.46 | bleeter | nope |
| 00:34.49 | cbreak | sell it to idiots who pay real money for virtual gold |
| 00:35.03 | schnoggo | bleeter, |
| 00:35.35 | bleeter | Legorol: well, I say 'nope' but that's what I'm waiting to hear back on. Last time it was queried, was told the procedure was legit. /shrug |
| 00:35.37 | schnoggo | perhaps you look at the history of people who have attempted tp create an exchange of gold to dollars |
| 00:35.47 | Neuro_Medivh | Warcraft would never support laundering money through WoW, for legal reasons |
| 00:35.57 | Legorol | s/Warcraft/Blizzard/ |
| 00:36.03 | Legorol | obviously |
| 00:36.04 | bleeter | schnoggo: perhaps you should read the history of Blizz staff comments on the specific procedure |
| 00:36.10 | Legorol | ah well, bleeter's not going to tell us anyway |
| 00:36.17 | Neuro_Medivh | s/Warcraft/Blizzard/ |
| 00:36.33 | bleeter | which is a bit hard 'coz Blizz seem to have a policy of deleting threads that question the related policies |
| 00:36.40 | Legorol | however, not supporting and not having loopholes is not the same thing |
| 00:36.47 | schnoggo | if an exchange rate is established, then the gold has value and can be taxed. BLizz isn't going to allow that to happen |
| 00:37.12 | schnoggo | they have a policy of making sure you don't trade gold |
| 00:37.18 | Legorol | if bleeter found a hole in the policies, i can imagine it existing, even if Blizzard doesn't approve |
| 00:37.22 | Neuro_Medivh | not only that, but Blizzard allowing value to be assigned to gold then requires them to treat gold as real property |
| 00:37.26 | bleeter | Legorol: the definitive statement was fairly unequivical 'this is still legal' |
| 00:37.42 | bleeter | gah @ my pseling |
| 00:37.49 | schnoggo | doresn't mater what the policy says - they will shut you down anyway |
| 00:37.57 | Legorol | bleeter: in this context, when you say legal, are you referring to legal as in law of the country, or legal as in allowed by EULA/ToU |
| 00:37.58 | Legorol | or both |
| 00:38.12 | bleeter | Legorol: both |
| 00:38.15 | Legorol | schnoggo: actually the policies are very important |
| 00:38.28 | schnoggo | how old are you? |
| 00:38.29 | bleeter | well, I think the Blue meant 'ingame', but we were querying it's entirety |
| 00:38.37 | Legorol | if it's legal in the country and the policies don't prohibit it (assuming bleeter found such a procedure), Blizz shouldn't stop it until they change their policies |
| 00:38.52 | schnoggo | it's there game, |
| 00:38.53 | schnoggo | they |
| 00:39.02 | schnoggo | can do what tehy want |
| 00:39.19 | Legorol | schnoggo: i think bleeter's point is exactly that Blizzard doens't just "do what they want", they follow particular policies/procedures |
| 00:39.20 | Cide | there game? where game? |
| 00:39.22 | Neuro_Medivh | the thing is, Gold is officially always the property of Blizzard, as is all the data on their servers |
| 00:39.25 | Legorol | like any big corporate entity |
| 00:40.16 | Legorol | If the hole that bleeter discovered is something that Blizzard is overlooking as a matter of company policy/procedure, and is not otherwise illegal in terms of the law of the land, then you can very well get away with it. |
| 00:40.29 | bleeter | Neuro_Medivh: yes, and there's a 'legitimate' way, according to policy, of how to 'clean' that relationship. from a small extension of this policy, it'd be possible to launder $ through wow. |
| 00:40.44 | schnoggo | bleeter: you are being ridiculously niave - they will not allow you to takes actions regardless of stated policies that would destroy their business. Go sell gold for Conan. |
| 00:40.50 | Neuro_Medivh | except the instant you attempt to use it, they'll close the loophole |
| 00:41.05 | Neuro_Medivh | or they will claim that your interpretation isn't valid |
| 00:41.10 | Fogger | sourceName/arg4 is always nil on SPELL_AURA_APPLIED & SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE from certain debuffs cast by Beryl Treasure Hunters in Borean Tundra. bug? |
| 00:41.15 | Legorol | schnoggo: i think you are the one that is being naive, if you think that "Blizzard" is a single entity and thinks like a human being |
| 00:41.27 | Nechckn | silly sheep... where is my cattle prod |
| 00:42.11 | Legorol | Consider how GMs respond to most queries. Despite many of the queries being seemingly "obvious" to the player, the GMs have no choice but to follow set company policies. |
| 00:42.17 | schnoggo | i won't go into my employment history, but I assure I know what I'm talking about here |
| 00:42.24 | bleeter | customers posed a theoretical model... '... if this were real, it'd still be legit' |
| 00:43.37 | Nechckn | bleeter you're just lookin' for another taste o' the prod, aren't you |
| 00:43.50 | Neuro_Medivh | Any Blizzard policy that allows any kind of laundering would be instantly changed the moment you attempted to do it |
| 00:44.13 | Neuro_Medivh | because it would violate their overall policy of "No gold-to-money transfers" |
| 00:44.16 | Legorol | unless the actions are outside the scope of what Blizzard policies can cover |
| 00:44.25 | bleeter | Legorol: bingo! ;) |
| 00:44.29 | Legorol | Neuro_Medivh: without knowing the details, it's not clear what bleeter has in mind |
| 00:44.40 | Legorol | he never said we are talking about gold to money transfer |
| 00:44.47 | schnoggo | if something is transacted in game, then blizz can cover it |
| 00:44.47 | Legorol | he never said gold is even involved in any way |
| 00:44.54 | Legorol | exactly |
| 00:44.55 | Nechckn | exactly, it's not |
| 00:45.04 | Legorol | but if something is transacted outside the game, Blizz can't cover it |
| 00:45.22 | Neuro_Medivh | actually, within limits, they can.. you can't sell your account, for instance |
| 00:45.34 | Legorol | sure, but that's because you sign a contract saying you won't |
| 00:46.02 | Legorol | any out-of-WoW rights that you don't expressly sign away, you still possess regardless of Blizzard policies |
| 00:46.40 | Legorol | Consider the following hypothetical scenario: I can pay someone to explain to me how to play a hunter. |
| 00:46.51 | Legorol | Nothing to do with Blizzard |
| 00:47.12 | Legorol | Unfortunately this particular example is no use for money laundering, as the person is providing a service and has an income, which is fully taxable |
| 00:47.14 | Dewin | That happens every time you buy a strategy guide... |
| 00:47.22 | Neuro_Medivh | The problem is that I have absolutely no idea what "money laundering" means in this context |
| 00:47.23 | Legorol | exactly |
| 00:47.46 | Neuro_Medivh | in most cases, it means inputing money into a system and then withdrawing it later |
| 00:47.54 | Legorol | Neuro_Medivh: I have assumed that money laundering has the financial meaning of allowing real world dollah to go from one person to another without paying tax |
| 00:48.08 | Dewin | Neuro_Medivh: I want to send a thousand dollars to some terrorist group. So to hide it, I buy gold, which I then trade to them, which then sell. |
| 00:48.15 | Legorol | of course bleeter may have meant something different |
| 00:48.17 | bleeter | engaging in transactions to conceal the identity of source and/or destination |
| 00:48.46 | Neuro_Medivh | bleeter, yes, but without knowing the interaction between this system and WoW, it's hard to argue whether it's allowed or not |
| 00:49.13 | Legorol | Neuro_Medivh: I don't think we are trying to argue whether it's allowed or not. At least I wasn't. |
| 00:49.14 | Neuro_Medivh | Dewin: In that scenario, the "buy gold" is the part that is against policy |
| 00:49.24 | Legorol | I was merely arguing about what it means for Blizzard to have policies. |
| 00:49.33 | bleeter | It was certainly a lot nastier back when you could use the ingame KB to browse the web |
| 00:49.35 | Amarande | Yeah, these days people who want to make money off WoW just compile a bunch of rehashed info that's available for free on the web anyway on how to level to 70 quickly/farm gold quickly and sell THAT |
| 00:49.38 | Neuro_Medivh | their policies obviously can only cover their product |
| 00:49.41 | Dewin | Neruo: I'm aware, I was just explaining how you could theoretically launder money through wow (or any MMO for that matter) |
| 00:49.44 | Legorol | and how quickly/arbitrarily cna Blizzard change policies or act on those changes |
| 00:50.24 | Neuro_Medivh | Yep. Every time we log in, we say "It's your game and you can do with it what you want" |
| 00:50.36 | Amarande | In any case, the legalities of gold as a currency, I understand are one of the reasons WHY gold can't be bought or sold |
| 00:50.49 | Legorol | Neuro_Medivh: indeed, but that doesn't mean there aren't things Blizzard does and doesn't do *in practice* |
| 00:50.51 | Legorol | that's the key here |
| 00:50.54 | Neuro_Medivh | it would be a legal nightmare for Blizzard |
| 00:50.56 | Amarande | There was a scare about it a while back around the infamous "Epic mount" listing on Craigslist, too |
| 00:51.01 | Legorol | Blizzard more or less follows his own policies |
| 00:51.10 | Legorol | that's the key point about a big corporate entity |
| 00:51.13 | Amarande | Neuro: and for parents, too |
| 00:51.17 | schnoggo | Bleeter's statement was 'how to legitimately launder $ through WoW' - I hear nothing about WoW if there's no in-game transaction. |
| 00:51.18 | Legorol | it works by set rules, and it's hard to change those rules quickly |
| 00:51.36 | Legorol | schnoggo: why would it have to be an in-game transaction? |
| 00:51.37 | Neuro_Medivh | "through WoW" impies some form of in-game transaction |
| 00:51.40 | Amarande | can you imagine a family where Daddy, who knows nothing about computers gets dragged off by the IRS enforcers because little Billy made too much gold on WoW and it wasn't reported at the correct value for taxes? :) |
| 00:51.46 | Neuro_Medivh | s/impies/implies/ |
| 00:51.47 | Legorol | buy a game card, mail it to someone, they return it for a refund |
| 00:51.47 | cbreak | can you legitimately launder money in any way? |
| 00:51.53 | schnoggo | "through WoW" |
| 00:52.11 | Neuro_Medivh | Legorol: that's not through wow, that's through the place you bought it |
| 00:52.15 | Neuro_Medivh | as you can do that with anything |
| 00:52.21 | Legorol | true |
| 00:52.27 | schnoggo | exactly |
| 00:52.28 | Legorol | cbreak: in some cases, yes |
| 00:52.38 | bleeter | cbreak: I apologise for that bad part of my phrase... 'legitimately' (in that case) means 'allowed through Blizz policy' |
| 00:52.40 | Legorol | for example, you can legitimately create multiple bank accounts and transfer money between them |
| 00:53.00 | Legorol | bleeter: ah, but I did ask if it's legit according to the law of the country too |
| 00:53.16 | bleeter | true, yes, works kinda that way too |
| 00:53.31 | schnoggo | blizz policies can't extend outside of the game - an "loophole" there is just ... i tire of this |
| 00:53.42 | bleeter | Legorol: though as I don't know each and every state and country's laws.. bit hard to say anything definitively ;) |
| 00:53.44 | Amarande | Never minding the whole shady dealing and money laundering angle, there are still two highly worrisome points to an MMO allowing for ingame money to be bought and sold for real money |
| 00:53.56 | Legorol | bleeter: it's sufficient for you to consider your own state/country |
| 00:54.18 | bleeter | now |
| 00:54.20 | Amarande | 1) It could then potentially be construed to be a currency with its own exchange rate, and thus, the MMO people would have to keep track of everything and report it as income for the appropriate persons to the tax authorities |
| 00:54.40 | Amarande | 2) Then you have things like that Craigslist incident, which could then cause (IANAL, though) additional liability |
| 00:54.51 | Neuro_Medivh | what was the craigslist incident? |
| 00:54.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 00:54.52 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 00:55.07 | Dewin | "If you give me gold for an epic mount, you get to mount me" is the short version |
| 00:55.17 | Amarande | Neuro: a year or two ago, I forget exactly how long ago it was, there was a listing on Craigslist by a woman who offered, well, what Dewin said |
| 00:55.44 | Amarande | There was some talk thinking that this, combined with the fact that gold is known to be bought and sold for real money, could be construed as prostitution |
| 00:55.46 | Neuro_Medivh | ah, and the question of whether it was prostitution |
| 00:55.50 | Amarande | yeah |
| 00:56.02 | Amarande | this is one case where it is much better that the sale of gold is forbidden |
| 00:56.14 | Amarande | both for Blizzard, and for the parties involved |
| 00:56.19 | Neuro_Medivh | how did it turn out? Legally, since gold has no value, it wouldn't be prostitution |
| 00:56.27 | Amarande | Neuro: surprisingly well |
| 00:56.29 | Amarande | I heard the woman got a bf out of it |
| 00:56.34 | Neuro_Medivh | and offering sex for free isn't illegal, AFAIK |
| 00:56.41 | Neuro_Medivh | if it is, I'm in trouble! |
| 00:56.42 | Amarande | that's gotta be the most foolishly risky thing to post on Craigslist though :| |
| 00:56.51 | Dewin | Neuro: In some places, it can be. |
| 00:56.58 | cbreak | since when is prostitution illegal? |
| 00:57.21 | Amarande | cbreak: your country's laws may differ :) |
| 00:57.37 | Amarande | IIRC, the incident being discussed occurred in TriBeCa, New York City, US |
| 00:57.41 | Neuro_Medivh | ok, here's the original post: http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/308349637.html |
| 00:57.52 | Dewin | wow, it's still there? |
| 00:57.54 | Neuro_Medivh | lol... "I play a level 70 night elf druid and would prefer someone who was into roleplaying (I have a costume!)" |
| 00:58.37 | Amarande | I suppose it's an easier date to prepare for than some ... LOL |
| 00:58.50 | Amarande | There are some people who spend a month getting ready for a date they're dead set on having |
| 00:59.02 | Amarande | Five thousand gold pieces only takes a couple weeks or so of dailies :) |
| 00:59.11 | Dewin | I don't think you'd really have to 'prepare' for that kind of date |
| 00:59.20 | Amarande | Dewin: don't you have to farm the gold? LOL |
| 00:59.36 | Dewin | I've know of people who have 12k gold |
| 00:59.50 | Amarande | I've heard of at least one person who can't make another penny in WoW because their gold is maxed out |
| 01:00.05 | Dewin | I do know I started saving for epic flying at 60. |
| 01:00.08 | NeoTron | a friend has like 600000+ gold on beta |
| 01:00.14 | Amarande | speaking of which, if your gold maxes out, are you unable to turn in quests with a gold reward with a failure like when you have no inventory space for a reward item? |
| 01:00.19 | Dewin | Except... at 70, at 3800g, I cracked and decided to craft ebon netherscale for myself instead. |
| 01:00.21 | NeoTron | people keep buying glyphs from the AH for 400g+ even with the vendors up |
| 01:00.25 | NeoTron | not that it matters, just found it funny |
| 01:00.30 | kd3 | neo; rofl |
| 01:00.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 01:00.50 | Amarande | NeoTron: did they raise the gold limit? |
| 01:00.55 | Amarande | I was told the limit was 214,748 gold and change |
| 01:01.10 | Adys | it's not "raising" the gold limit |
| 01:01.13 | Adys | it's FIXING the gold limit |
| 01:01.22 | Wobin | http://vision.bc.edu/~dmartin/teaching/sorting/anim-html/all.html |
| 01:01.28 | kd3 | now it's 2^32-1 instead of 2^31-1? |
| 01:01.29 | NeoTron | Amarande: bag |
| 01:01.29 | Wobin | good page on sorting algorithms |
| 01:01.31 | NeoTron | oops |
| 01:01.37 | NeoTron | nah, he keeps sending it to his alts |
| 01:01.58 | Amarande | kd3: I never understood why they made gold a signed integer anyway |
| 01:02.10 | Dewin | Possibly to avoid unexpected side effects? |
| 01:02.17 | Amarande | unless part of WoW is coded in some asinine language that refuses to accept the notion of an unsigned int32 |
| 01:02.34 | Dewin | Better to have a glitch put a player at -1g than at 2^32-1 g? |
| 01:02.43 | Amarande | unfortunately, there *are* some programming languages that suck. :) |
| 01:02.55 | kd3 | how? there's no way a player can be in debt |
| 01:02.59 | Amarande | and I'm not at all sure how many languages are involved in the coding of C |
| 01:03.02 | NeoTron | but C++ is not one of them, nor lua |
| 01:03.15 | Amarande | Neo: yeah, it's more likely the database backend |
| 01:03.19 | Amarande | which I'm a bit foggy on the nature of |
| 01:03.31 | NeoTron | more than likely it was one of those "no one will ever have more than 200k gold!" things |
| 01:03.33 | Adys | i dont suppose it didnt occur to you the gold cap was nothing to worry about pre bc ... |
| 01:03.34 | Dewin | And there are coding (or performance) issues I think of having to do checks of the like if(playergold - cost < 0) when playergold and cost are signed. |
| 01:03.53 | NeoTron | they run Oracle so I bet it's simply a signed 32 bit integer instead of unsigned.. for no good reason :P |
| 01:04.01 | Amarande | Adys: I can imagine someone being able to make that much pre BC |
| 01:04.17 | Adys | thats really cool |
| 01:04.19 | Amarande | after all, pre BC, the biggest character growth expense was an epic ground mount |
| 01:04.19 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: that sentence makes my head hurt. less negatives please :p |
| 01:04.22 | Amarande | which wasn't even 1000g :) |
| 01:04.22 | Adys | 10 million players disagree though |
| 01:04.35 | Adys | since no one found out the gold cap until late into bc |
| 01:04.46 | Adys | yeah sorry night |
| 01:04.48 | Amarande | yeah, but it surprises me |
| 01:04.48 | NeoTron | I remember how hard it was to get an epic mount in pre-bc |
| 01:04.51 | NeoTron | at least for me |
| 01:04.59 | NeoTron | I only once had >1000g in prebc |
| 01:05.05 | Adys | rereading it didnt not make my head not calm |
| 01:05.05 | Amarande | especially given, say, the silly amount of money someone who maintained multiple alchemists could probably make in classic |
| 01:05.10 | Adys | holy shit |
| 01:05.20 | Amarande | given the silly number of arcanite bars any top end crafts seemed to require, and that it was on a CD then |
| 01:05.31 | Adys | alchemy was worthless pre bc, what are you talking about? |
| 01:05.36 | ScytheBlade1 | I know people who had >30k pre-BC |
| 01:05.38 | Adys | I made around 40k gold |
| 01:05.42 | Adys | because of enchanting |
| 01:05.59 | Amarande | These days there's primal might, but BC recipes don't use as stupid many primal mights as Classic 300 crafting recipes used arcanite |
| 01:06.13 | Adys | lol ... |
| 01:06.17 | Amarande | weren't there classic recipes that needed like an entire STACK or more of arcanite? |
| 01:06.29 | kd3 | just t'fury iirc |
| 01:06.38 | NightHawkTheSane | arcanite reaper used 20 arcanite bars |
| 01:06.51 | Adys | thats total garbage Amarande sorry |
| 01:07.03 | Amarande | plus warlocks back then needed more arcanite for their mount |
| 01:07.13 | Amarande | how many arcanite did it used to be for the dreadsteed? I know it was more than one |
| 01:07.14 | cbreak | the ragnaros legendary needed a lot |
| 01:07.17 | cbreak | I think |
| 01:07.24 | Adys | yeah people craft legendaries every day |
| 01:07.38 | Adys | if anything at all made alchemy worth something more than lw it was making potions |
| 01:07.54 | Adys | frost fire etc pots were goldbread |
| 01:08.08 | NightHawkTheSane | sulfuron hammer used 50, but yeah, legendary.. |
| 01:08.16 | Adys | and in no way does this compare to enchanting |
| 01:09.11 | Adys | arcanite did sell well |
| 01:09.14 | Adys | but so did thorium |
| 01:09.21 | Adys | and arc was on a 24h cd |
| 01:09.31 | Adys | you dont make money off stuff like that |
| 01:09.37 | Amarande | ahh, the good old days of elemental based raids :) |
| 01:09.41 | NightHawkTheSane | the xmutes didn't make money, really |
| 01:09.44 | NightHawkTheSane | it was the raw mats |
| 01:09.48 | Adys | aye night |
| 01:09.51 | NightHawkTheSane | thorium & arcane crystals |
| 01:10.08 | Adys | mining was an awesome profession before AQ |
| 01:10.12 | NightHawkTheSane | which is more or less the same for any profession |
| 01:10.28 | NightHawkTheSane | enchanting just had a few obnoxiously rare & useful recipes |
| 01:10.37 | Amarande | like crusader? :) |
| 01:10.44 | Amarande | which apparently is still obnoxiously rare and useful |
| 01:10.47 | Adys | no. |
| 01:10.57 | Adys | I probably made 100 gold out of crusader |
| 01:10.58 | Amarande | I'm pretty sure I've only found crusader once on each of the two servers I've got 60+ characters on |
| 01:10.59 | NightHawkTheSane | that being the big one, but there were other rep based ones that were a pita. |
| 01:11.03 | Adys | not even enough to pay the recipe |
| 01:11.15 | Adys | the AQ enchants were the gold mine |
| 01:11.19 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ |
| 01:11.27 | NightHawkTheSane | i forgot about those |
| 01:11.37 | Adys | I was making between 3k and 8k a week |
| 01:11.46 | Adys | had all the enchants ingame and referred to as the "server's enchanter" |
| 01:12.12 | NightHawkTheSane | and then? :p |
| 01:12.13 | Adys | the one that probably got me most money was the 15agi on gloves |
| 01:12.34 | Amarande | I'm actually surprised crusader is still popular on some servers |
| 01:12.40 | Adys | its not lol |
| 01:12.42 | Amarande | given the stupid rare mats |
| 01:12.45 | Adys | it's worthless |
| 01:13.03 | Adys | nerfed for twinks, nerfed for 60+ |
| 01:13.12 | Amarande | hell, every enchanter needs 10 or so large brilliants just to level enchanting and it's a PITA to get them on some servers |
| 01:13.20 | Tem|laptop | I made 1k last week making hardened khorium rings |
| 01:13.28 | Adys | no its not amarande ... |
| 01:13.36 | Adys | run scholo |
| 01:13.38 | Amarande | Adys: depends on two factors really |
| 01:13.46 | Tem|laptop | the best part was I never advertised it |
| 01:13.58 | Amarande | one, whether you can solo scholo, and two, if not, whether you can get any groups for instances that actually drop blues that actually give LBS |
| 01:14.02 | Adys | yeah if you are a holy priest or prot warrior Im not taking you into acct |
| 01:14.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: make friend with a 70 prot pally |
| 01:14.17 | Adys | you'll make money off mining |
| 01:14.17 | NightHawkTheSane | done and done. |
| 01:14.29 | Amarande | like my enchanter on Turalyon, is a holy priest, and it was holy hell to get the shards for the arcanite and fel iron rod steps |
| 01:14.44 | Adys | now I have the direbrew remote |
| 01:14.53 | Tem|laptop | direbrew remote? |
| 01:14.56 | NightHawkTheSane | i never actually had much trouble getting shards for my enchanter |
| 01:14.59 | Adys | every hour I can get 8 large brilliant shards within 5 mins |
| 01:15.05 | Amarande | Tem: brewfest special item |
| 01:15.11 | Amarande | transports you straight to the bar in BRD |
| 01:15.11 | Adys | teleports you at brd bar |
| 01:15.29 | Tem|laptop | haha |
| 01:15.30 | Tem|laptop | awesome |
| 01:15.32 | Amarande | but yeah, basically the problem is that if you can't solo those instances |
| 01:15.33 | Tem|laptop | how do you get it? |
| 01:15.40 | Adys | rare drop off coren |
| 01:15.44 | Tem|laptop | btw, how tough is the brewfest boss? |
| 01:15.44 | Amarande | basically -all- the blues that DE into large brilliants fall into two categories |
| 01:15.49 | Adys | ive seen it twice out of 270 times |
| 01:15.49 | Tem|laptop | can I solo him on my DK? |
| 01:15.55 | Adys | uh at 80 yes |
| 01:16.00 | Adys | but really not less |
| 01:16.01 | Amarande | Tem: enough that you have to not be stupid, but not too hard if you know what you're doing :) |
| 01:16.04 | Adys | he spawns adds etc |
| 01:16.20 | Tem|laptop | the more add the merrier |
| 01:16.28 | NightHawkTheSane | oh man, i love the october beer |
| 01:16.33 | cbreak | I soloed strat ud today, it's okish. but the horse didn't drop :( |
| 01:16.35 | Tem|laptop | my dps goes to insane levels when we get more than 10 adds in the mix |
| 01:16.37 | Adys | yeah its awesome night |
| 01:16.38 | NightHawkTheSane | i had a small army of squirrels! |
| 01:16.50 | Adys | no amarande |
| 01:16.56 | Tem|laptop | cbreak, I heard someone got the mount to drop on beta |
| 01:17.08 | Tem|laptop | which is like... |
| 01:17.10 | Tem|laptop | ow |
| 01:17.12 | cbreak | he must be quite upset |
| 01:17.33 | cbreak | I did it on life :) |
| 01:17.33 | Amarande | Adys: first time I did brewfest I had the luck to get a craptastic PUG |
| 01:17.33 | Adys | one off blackbreath, one off crony (sp?), one off the barman, one off the robot thing, one off the lucifron dude and one off the elemental at the anvil |
| 01:17.33 | NightHawkTheSane | Tem: i hear it dropped on both a ptr server and murmur |
| 01:17.42 | Adys | aye did night |
| 01:17.50 | Adys | Im kinda wondering if they increased the droprate |
| 01:17.54 | Adys | cant be that many people running it |
| 01:18.00 | Amarande | in any case, the two categories that items that DE to large brilliants always seem to me to fall into two categories: |
| 01:18.25 | Adys | two categories falling into two categories |
| 01:18.27 | Tem|laptop | Adys, I'd love it if they did |
| 01:18.27 | Amarande | a) ones that come from instances I can't solo and which no one on Turalyon runs (and are bop so I can't use an alt to get them even if I had one that could solo it) |
| 01:18.27 | Adys | sounds good |
| 01:18.32 | Tem|laptop | my DK wants that mount hella bad |
| 01:18.57 | Amarande | b) crafted items that require idiotically expensive amounts of mats, like 100g+ for one blue to DE into one shard |
| 01:18.57 | cbreak | Amarande: which turalyon? |
| 01:18.57 | Adys | I can do 5 stratholme runs within 10 mins |
| 01:18.57 | Amarande | cbreak: US, horde side |
| 01:19.03 | Adys | ... being able to pull baron from the entrance helps tho |
| 01:19.08 | cbreak | hmm... I am on the EU turalyon. too bad :) |
| 01:19.18 | Tem|laptop | Adys, ? |
| 01:19.22 | Amarande | I created my warlock on that server, and it literally took her two weeks to get a group for scholomance for the dreadsteed quest |
| 01:19.23 | Tem|laptop | how so? |
| 01:19.23 | Adys | hehe focus magic bug thing |
| 01:19.25 | Amarande | and another week to get one for dire maul |
| 01:19.30 | Tem|laptop | what's the bug? |
| 01:19.47 | cbreak | you mean the second focus magic leftover? |
| 01:19.51 | Adys | when they changed the spell, if you had the old version of the spell in the spellbar you'd get the buff castable on mobs |
| 01:19.57 | Adys | and it has unlimited range |
| 01:20.01 | Tem|laptop | oh lol |
| 01:20.04 | Tem|laptop | nice |
| 01:20.05 | Adys | ignores los too |
| 01:20.11 | Tem|laptop | so you still have it on your bar? |
| 01:20.24 | cbreak | I have two focus magic in my spell book |
| 01:20.34 | cbreak | the correct one and the bugged |
| 01:20.34 | Tem|laptop | ah |
| 01:20.35 | Tem|laptop | nice |
| 01:22.04 | Amarande | Adys: blizzard didn't run any sort of cleanup to remove it from characters? |
| 01:22.18 | Adys | no |
| 01:22.59 | cbreak | probably doesn't matter, the chars get wiped after beta ends anyway |
| 01:23.13 | Adys | yea |
| 01:25.04 | Adys | [04:12:24] <XXX_> anybody seen a toon called pinkorbius, sh has a lvl "??" |
| 01:34.22 | Neuro_Medivh | anyone know what the hotpatch was for? |
| 01:36.47 | NightHawkTheSane | to give you a personal slap to the face :p |
| 01:42.53 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:46.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Kolie2 (n=kraft@adsl-070-154-141-184.sip.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:48.21 | Kolie2 | hmm. |
| 01:51.56 | |pez| | Is it bad that I'm sort of wanting to wake up the boyfriend, so he can't sleep again. And then go to bed myself, so I have all the bed to myself? :P |
| 01:52.42 | NightHawkTheSane | yes, let the poor boy sleep :p |
| 01:53.01 | |pez| | hurr |
| 01:53.04 | |pez| | "poor boy" |
| 01:53.16 | Amarande | LOL |
| 01:53.58 | Amarande | good grief, there are apparently slightly more than 3% of realms that still have had no guilds visit Sunwell at all |
| 01:54.18 | Adys | that's pathetically low |
| 01:54.34 | Adys | isnt this something like 12 realms in eu+us ? |
| 01:54.45 | Amarande | Adys: it seemed *high* to me |
| 01:54.47 | Adys | counting the new russian realms, etc etc |
| 01:55.02 | Adys | no 12 realms is nothing |
| 01:55.13 | Adys | new realms opened recently |
| 01:55.15 | Amarande | like, can a realm possibly have that few decent players that you can't even get together 25 that are sufficiently un-suck to defeat Kalecgos at least? :| |
| 01:55.27 | Amarande | Ah, I thought maybe you thought there were more realms that sucked that bad heh |
| 01:55.49 | Adys | who are you telling to un-suck, you said yourself you cant even get in a guild that accepts gruul players |
| 01:55.54 | Adys | troll in a chan i can kick from please |
| 01:56.43 | Amarande | Adys: that's mainly a matter of having a job that isn't raid friendly :S |
| 01:57.26 | Adys | you mean something like people having jobs, family members etc etc, wife/hubby so on.. having restricted playtimes.. |
| 01:57.26 | Adys | ah |
| 01:57.45 | Adys | sounds like 90% of my guild - did I say we downed illidan recently? |
| 01:58.39 | Amarande | maybe I'm not on the best of servers then |
| 01:58.59 | Adys | Im sure my low-pop pve serv isnt one of the best either |
| 01:59.05 | Amarande | at this point in time though, luxuries like server transferring are NITB anyway |
| 01:59.15 | Adys | if you want to raid you can get in a raiding guild even with a job or anything. hell, i took a year break and when I came back I was on heroic/pre25 and knew no one on the serv |
| 01:59.18 | Amarande | and in any case, the raid scene is likely to change quite a lot after WOTLK and everything can be done with 10 |
| 02:00.22 | Amarande | maybe I'm just feeling soured because my guild collapsed into a 'still really friendly but we can't really do much instancing anymore' state |
| 02:00.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@pD957EC61.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:00.59 | Adys | why are you even staying in this guild |
| 02:01.06 | Adys | you cant raid, it'll disband soon enough |
| 02:01.28 | NightHawkTheSane | wow, s5 sliders is so much worse than i remember. |
| 02:01.44 | Amarande | and I haven't found another tuesday/wednesday raid group yet |
| 02:01.58 | Amarande | I almost found one, but they changed to tuesday/thursday and I work till 9:30, 10, 11 too many Thursdays |
| 02:02.13 | Adys | then you'll raid one day a week. |
| 02:02.24 | Adys | plenty of guilds raid 4-5 days a week |
| 02:02.28 | Adys | join on |
| 02:02.30 | Adys | one* |
| 02:02.45 | Adys | you dont have to raid every day, youll have lower dkp, less gear. all's fair |
| 02:02.56 | |pez| | If you're good enough, any raid would take ya. ;P |
| 02:02.58 | |pez| | more or elss |
| 02:02.59 | |pez| | less |
| 02:03.03 | Adys | aye pez |
| 02:03.53 | bleeter | i went on a guild 'pug' (ie, those left over on standby) run of Kara the other day in my nub greens |
| 02:04.06 | Amarande | maybe people are raiding less on Quel'dorei because it's almost time for wotlk |
| 02:04.16 | bleeter | unfrotuantely, due to my trying out of the 'hacked' ATI drivers, I didn't see flame wreath or scorched earth :( |
| 02:04.18 | Amarande | plus after 3.0, I expect raiding will decline heavily anyway in the pre-wotlk interim |
| 02:04.36 | Amarande | at this point, it's probably better to see about getting my characters squared away to 70 with 375's in their profs |
| 02:04.38 | Adys | do NOT move when there's flame wreath |
| 02:04.43 | Adys | wether you got it or not |
| 02:05.04 | bleeter | and being a slack-non-raiding toon on that realm - rolled and levelled for Wrath and not BC - I didn't have BigWigs or DBM installed to let me know they'd procd |
| 02:05.08 | bleeter | I AM TEH FALE |
| 02:05.28 | Amarande | Adys, do you think there will be a huge decline in raiding after patch day? |
| 02:05.44 | Adys | no, why should I care tho? |
| 02:06.15 | Amarande | it seems to me that people will have to re-align themselves to so many class balance changes, by the time they're used to their classes again it will be time for the march to 80 |
| 02:06.28 | Adys | more reasons to raid |
| 02:06.34 | Adys | bosses nerfed by 30% hp |
| 02:06.38 | Adys | loosing abilities etc |
| 02:07.12 | Adys | a month to down stuff easymode, feel like you're in a private serv, have loot and be able to say you downed kj before wotlk even if you didnt deserve it |
| 02:07.37 | Adys | Im overdoing it really but they just want 3.0.2 to be fun, unlike the massive 2.0.1 failure |
| 02:07.50 | Adys | since they know the game will be imbalanced enough |
| 02:08.42 | Cide | Amarande: hahaha, wow |
| 02:08.46 | Amarande | what happened with 2.0.1? |
| 02:08.49 | Cide | it'll take players a day to get used to their new changes |
| 02:08.52 | Cide | if that |
| 02:08.53 | Cide | maybe an hour |
| 02:09.00 | Adys | an hour nah |
| 02:09.02 | Amarande | I didn't join WoW till like, late spring 2007, so I didn't see BC's release |
| 02:09.04 | Adys | a day yea |
| 02:09.07 | Cide | uhhhh |
| 02:09.09 | Cide | why? |
| 02:09.17 | Cide | you can just keep your old talent build |
| 02:09.19 | Adys | trying more than one spec |
| 02:09.22 | Cide | don't gain any more abilities |
| 02:09.23 | Adys | .. how? |
| 02:09.30 | Adys | my talent tree got massively changed |
| 02:09.35 | Cide | well qq then |
| 02:09.37 | Adys | :P |
| 02:09.38 | Amarande | Cide: maybe the basics. I can see it taking a few weeks' raid testing to find the sweet spots for talent builds for classes whose trees changed a lot |
| 02:09.47 | Adys | ah come on |
| 02:09.49 | Cide | why do you need to find the sweet spots just to raid? |
| 02:09.51 | Amarande | and to see if the 50 point talents are useful at 70 |
| 02:10.00 | Adys | no one cares about finding the best rotation or whatever crap |
| 02:10.04 | Adys | this stuff will be useful at 80 |
| 02:10.10 | Adys | not 70 for 3-4 weeks |
| 02:10.12 | Cide | if anything you'll be just as powerful, if not more powerful |
| 02:10.27 | Cide | and with a 30% health reduction you'll still kick the shit out of everything |
| 02:10.32 | Cide | don't be stupid |
| 02:10.33 | Cide | good night |
| 02:17.29 | Adys | Anyone knows of a bagnon version fixed for wotlk? |
| 02:28.24 | Hjalte | Adys: You could try this http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10367-Bagnon.html |
| 02:28.40 | Adys | \o/ cheers |
| 02:28.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: i do not, and i certainly am incapable of searching wowi, either |
| 02:29.29 | Adys | NightHawkTheSane: must be quite a handicap there |
| 02:29.51 | Adys | "wrong object type for member function" the heck does this mean :\ |
| 02:29.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: well, i figure you could sympathize. |
| 02:30.04 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (n=ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 02:32.33 | AnduinLothar | "In BC, it was not a goal to have paladins be able to MT every encounter. It is now." |
| 02:32.37 | AnduinLothar | good to know... |
| 02:32.45 | Esine | MT |
| 02:32.47 | Esine | ? |
| 02:32.51 | Esine | mind trick |
| 02:32.57 | Esine | like a jedi 8) |
| 02:33.06 | NightHawkTheSane | AnduinLothar: they've been more or less saying that for a little while now, but in different ways |
| 02:33.08 | *** join/#wowuidev krka_ (n=krka@c83-250-32-31.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 02:33.14 | NightHawkTheSane | Esine: "main tank" |
| 02:33.18 | Esine | oh right |
| 02:33.27 | Amarande | Anduin: aren't there still only like two fights that a paladin absolutely can't MT in BC, raidboss-wise? |
| 02:33.43 | Amarande | I know there's Reliquary phase 2, and maybe one other I'm forgetting |
| 02:33.55 | NightHawkTheSane | thats the only one i know of |
| 02:34.01 | Adys | illidan? |
| 02:34.03 | Adys | shear |
| 02:34.08 | Adys | No idea never tanked it |
| 02:34.08 | Amarande | and speaking of tanking, how's the shield wall change going to affect raiding? |
| 02:34.17 | NightHawkTheSane | nah, they can reach full avoidance |
| 02:34.18 | Adys | (what shield wall change?) |
| 02:34.29 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: its being changed to a 5m cd |
| 02:34.33 | Adys | lol |
| 02:34.38 | Amarande | Adys: they raised the duration to 12 seconds, reduced the CD to 5m, but reduced the damage reduction to 50% |
| 02:34.57 | AnduinLothar | i dunno about that. Most of the time there are 2 issues: we're need better gear to tank lower level stuff compared to druids/wars. And there's a stigma against pally tanks, so they rarely get to MT even when they can. |
| 02:35.29 | AnduinLothar | Full avoidance isn't hard in T6 |
| 02:36.05 | NightHawkTheSane | unfortunately, the social stigma is going to be the hardest thing for pallies and druids to get over. |
| 02:36.11 | AnduinLothar | Of course that all changes by leveling to 80. people are having a hard time even getting defense capped for heroics. |
| 02:36.25 | AnduinLothar | in blues |
| 02:36.55 | AnduinLothar | where as defense capped in BC was pretty easy in blues |
| 02:37.56 | AnduinLothar | well a large part of the stigma comes from Beta impressions |
| 02:38.20 | AnduinLothar | so if in beta pallies are good tanks, people will generally pick up on that come live |
| 02:39.38 | AnduinLothar | for BC ret and prot only really got half the attention they needed, while holy was very good. Now in LK beta it's the opposite |
| 02:40.02 | Amarande | Anduin: tell me about it, my tankadin currently has 375 defense at level 62 |
| 02:40.10 | Amarande | which may explain why she tanks things so smoothly |
| 02:40.45 | Amarande | what's the crit chance for level 62, 63, 64 bosses vs. 375 def at 62? |
| 02:41.10 | AnduinLothar | dunno, fidn the formula on wowwiki |
| 02:41.27 | AnduinLothar | !wowwiki defense |
| 02:41.34 | AnduinLothar | ~wowwiki defense |
| 02:41.34 | purl | http://www.wowwiki.com/defense |
| 02:41.39 | AnduinLothar | there u go |
| 02:41.56 | ccox | fortunately, druid tanks don't go OOM and lose aggro |
| 02:42.53 | AnduinLothar | yeah since everything scales up in LK pally tanks don't run out of mana as fast, because mana scales slower than HP |
| 02:43.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 02:43.16 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 02:43.34 | AnduinLothar | so you have more health, get more damage taken, get back more mana... |
| 02:43.38 | ccox | and pally tanks will still have problems with mana eaters |
| 02:43.52 | AnduinLothar | true |
| 02:44.08 | ccox | of course, I'm still waiting to see if prot warriors can really tank multiple mobs now... |
| 02:44.18 | AnduinLothar | they can pretty well |
| 02:44.23 | AnduinLothar | in 5mans at least |
| 02:44.37 | AnduinLothar | Basically in every 5 man I've been in we just aoe'd every pack |
| 02:44.54 | ccox | NOTE - lag when crossing a TB bridge, can be deadly |
| 02:45.01 | AnduinLothar | I just hit 80 tho, so that might change in the heroics |
| 02:47.18 | AnduinLothar | woot. they fixed Mac shadows |
| 02:47.37 | Adys | they did? hm |
| 02:47.48 | Adys | wonder how well it works under opengl on windows now |
| 02:48.06 | Esine | are wotlk shadows still the same old blob shadows or do they have a real time shadowing system? |
| 02:48.07 | AnduinLothar | yeah they added 1 level of shadow detail a couple patches ago but the buildign shadows were solid black. |
| 02:48.14 | AnduinLothar | so it looks liek it works now |
| 02:48.43 | AnduinLothar | but it's only 1 level, and not up to 4 or whatever the D3D version has |
| 02:49.10 | Esine | are player shadows simple dark spots underneath them? |
| 02:49.13 | AnduinLothar | but i like it. it's subtle |
| 02:49.21 | AnduinLothar | they used to be |
| 02:49.30 | Esine | how are they now? |
| 02:49.32 | AnduinLothar | or if you have shadows ont he lowest setting they are now |
| 02:49.40 | AnduinLothar | they're dynamic shadows now |
| 02:49.43 | Esine | oh |
| 02:49.46 | Esine | that's good |
| 02:50.47 | AnduinLothar | hmmm |
| 02:50.55 | AnduinLothar | looks liek they just removed the buildign shadows |
| 02:51.07 | AnduinLothar | instead of fixing them |
| 02:51.39 | ANTRat | sounds like a legit fix |
| 02:51.42 | AnduinLothar | yeah objects dont have shadows either >.< |
| 02:52.01 | AnduinLothar | just units |
| 02:52.09 | Adys | id be happy with that |
| 02:52.42 | AnduinLothar | better than nothing sure. hope they fix and add back int he others tho, makes scenery look cooler |
| 02:54.18 | Adys | Wasnt there a way to SetPortraitTexture() with a GUID? |
| 02:54.41 | Adys | I want to add shiny portraits when clicking unit links |
| 02:54.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@122-57-240-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 02:58.18 | Gngsk | adys, tooltip scan? |
| 02:58.32 | Adys | how so? |
| 02:58.44 | Adys | I'd like it done on mobs ideally |
| 03:01.40 | Adys | Gngsk: http://s4.tinypic.com/2r24yed.jpg |
| 03:02.12 | WobWork | bah |
| 03:02.18 | WobWork | he looks nothing as advertised |
| 03:02.21 | Gngsk | heh |
| 03:02.26 | Adys | totally |
| 03:02.32 | Adys | any idea how to do that? |
| 03:02.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (n=Sixen@12-210-157-250.client.mchsi.com) |
| 03:02.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:02.42 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:05.38 | Gngsk | hmm, nah, I used to have an old version of witchunt that did tooltip scanning based on a GUID to determine if the unit triggering the event was pvp flagged |
| 03:05.54 | Gngsk | now that I think about that though it prolly wouldn't even apply to your problem |
| 03:05.58 | Gngsk | but it's gone anyway |
| 03:06.36 | Adys | shame |
| 03:07.45 | Gngsk | but it looks like SetPortraitTexture requires a unit, so you'd not be able to use GUID |
| 03:08.16 | Adys | yeah i was just thinking for some reason GUIDs could be used as units |
| 03:10.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 03:13.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Netcurse (n=chatzill@76.73.155.18) |
| 03:14.52 | End | lawl, tank got hit by a beam :( |
| 03:16.43 | NightHawkTheSane | ill hit YOUR tank with a beam. |
| 03:16.49 | Gngsk | it happens |
| 03:18.12 | End | saber lash is supposed to make him immune to beams though :P |
| 03:18.22 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:19.25 | End | (this is mother) |
| 03:23.03 | Gngsk | it was my understanding that avoiding the lash wouldn't apply the immunity buff |
| 03:25.19 | Shirik | ~irc |
| 03:25.19 | purl | "Welcome to IRC: where the men are boys, the women are boys, and 14-year-old girls are FBI agents." |
| 03:25.27 | Shirik | So we have to kick Seerah and Cairenn? |
| 03:25.44 | |Jelly| | ~failrick |
| 03:25.49 | Seerah | we're not the only ladies :P |
| 03:25.49 | |Jelly| | damnit |
| 03:25.51 | Shirik | ~fail |Jelly| |
| 03:25.51 | purl | |Jelly|, you Fail! |
| 03:25.52 | |Jelly| | I always do that |
| 03:25.52 | Seerah | ~lart shirik |
| 03:25.52 | purl | lowers shirik's priority |
| 03:26.16 | |Jelly| | ~failrik |
| 03:26.17 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 03:27.02 | Seerah | purl failrick is Shirik's been Rick Rolled! |
| 03:27.02 | purl | Seerah: okay |
| 03:27.07 | Seerah | ~failrick |
| 03:27.08 | purl | it has been said that failrick is Shirik's been Rick Rolled! |
| 03:27.25 | Seerah | better, |Jelly|? :) |
| 03:28.13 | ScytheBlade1 | NOOOOO |
| 03:28.23 | Seerah | ? |
| 03:28.24 | ScytheBlade1 | purl: failrick is FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 03:28.25 | purl | ...but failrick is already something else... |
| 03:28.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh |
| 03:28.34 | ScytheBlade1 | I can't see straight |
| 03:28.35 | Shirik | wtf |
| 03:28.37 | Seerah | ~failrik |
| 03:28.38 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 03:28.48 | ScytheBlade1 | 23:28 * ScytheBlade1 disappears |
| 03:28.51 | Seerah | <3 ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:29.23 | Seerah | when are you going to take me for a ride? :P |
| 03:29.43 | Seerah | I had a rain check, mister :) |
| 03:30.19 | *** join/#wowuidev QQngsk (n=Gngsk@c-69-138-214-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 03:30.51 | Seerah | eeek! another patch! |
| 03:31.34 | Gngsk | 8916? |
| 03:31.42 | Seerah | oh... yay no downloader |
| 03:31.43 | Seerah | no |
| 03:31.52 | Gngsk | i guess you mean beta |
| 03:31.53 | kd3 | ya. just a dll update or something |
| 03:32.01 | Gngsk | i just started download the ptr |
| 03:32.01 | Seerah | 9014 |
| 03:32.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 03:32.23 | Seerah | this is beta, not sure if it's the same build or not |
| 03:32.27 | Gngsk | k |
| 03:32.28 | Adys | same build yes |
| 03:32.31 | Adys | and only on beta |
| 03:32.35 | Adys | security patch or something |
| 03:32.36 | Adys | gnite all |
| 03:32.41 | Seerah | night |
| 03:33.29 | batrick | man, new fad e-friend names spread like a plague in wow |
| 03:33.34 | batrick | the newest one is "brah" |
| 03:38.19 | ScytheBlade1 | old fad is old |
| 03:38.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a friend who has been using that for months |
| 03:38.26 | ScytheBlade1 | brah |
| 03:38.26 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 03:38.40 | batrick | by new I mean that everyone is using it now |
| 03:38.55 | batrick | fads need not be original :P |
| 03:42.17 | *** join/#wowuidev QQngsk (n=Gngsk@c-69-138-214-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 03:50.52 | ccox | cue the "over 9000" jokes... |
| 03:58.38 | NightHawkTheSane | your mom's over 9000 |
| 04:20.36 | *** join/#wowuidev eliteevil (i=elite3vi@unaffiliated/elite3vil) |
| 04:21.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Kolie (n=kraft@adsl-074-182-161-037.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:25.47 | *** join/#wowuidev nymbia (n=nymbia@c-67-190-49-185.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
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| 04:46.43 | Sixen | Can we get banned for packetlogging WoW? |
| 04:47.10 | ScytheBlade1 | It's against the ToU |
| 04:47.11 | ScytheBlade1 | =] |
| 04:47.18 | Sixen | Is it? |
| 04:47.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes |
| 04:47.33 | Sixen | hm? |
| 04:47.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Just how enforceable/noticeable it is, well |
| 04:47.38 | ScytheBlade1 | That's another question |
| 04:47.39 | Sixen | Then do they not allow firewalls and routers? |
| 04:47.51 | Sixen | --; |
| 04:48.02 | ScytheBlade1 | It's also a rather grey line =] |
| 04:48.19 | Sixen | Where in the ToU do you see this |
| 04:48.23 | Sixen | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html |
| 04:48.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd have to pull it up, sec |
| 04:48.27 | ScytheBlade1 | ty |
| 04:48.27 | ScytheBlade1 | sec |
| 04:48.33 | Arrowmaster | i think the reason thats there is because of something that happened in EQ due to some really stupid design |
| 04:48.35 | Sixen | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/eula.html |
| 04:49.14 | Arrowmaster | were somebody using a packet sniffer was able to find out the loot on every mob in a zone as they spawned |
| 04:49.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Elessdy (i=no@adsl-75-17-196-27.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:49.43 | ScytheBlade1 | ToU, 4A |
| 04:50.09 | ScytheBlade1 | "or using a packet sniffer" |
| 04:50.19 | Sixen | ah true |
| 04:50.22 | Arrowmaster | theres no way at all to detect it though |
| 04:50.29 | Sixen | However, my router logs traffic |
| 04:50.32 | Sixen | That makes my router illegal |
| 04:50.32 | Lukian | especially under linux? ;) |
| 04:50.33 | ScytheBlade1 | 00:47 < ScytheBlade1> Just how enforceable/noticeable it is, well |
| 04:50.33 | ScytheBlade1 | 00:47 < ScytheBlade1> That's another question |
| 04:50.48 | Sixen | Won't they be able to see me running WireShark though? Lol. |
| 04:51.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes, they would |
| 04:51.13 | Lukian | so run it under wine and use a linux sniffer :p (or get a hub and run the sniffer on another pc? XD) |
| 04:51.14 | ScytheBlade1 | But keep in mind that between your computer and the WoW servers are... many other computers |
| 04:51.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Where it can't see what is running |
| 04:51.26 | Sixen | Oh? |
| 04:51.33 | Sixen | I thought Warden watched everyone. |
| 04:51.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Lukian: wine's sandbox may or may not limit that information... keep that in mind |
| 04:51.40 | Arrowmaster | no it cant |
| 04:51.44 | WobWork | Sixen: Warden's watching you right now |
| 04:51.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Sixen: how can warden watch a computer that warden isn't running on? |
| 04:51.48 | Sixen | :( |
| 04:51.50 | WobWork | he's peering through your window |
| 04:51.55 | Sixen | Huh? How do you mean sbo? |
| 04:52.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Sixen: Your computer --> A --> B --> C --> D --> WoW Servers |
| 04:52.02 | Sixen | You run WoW, you run Warden. |
| 04:52.03 | Lukian | ScytheBlade1, technically it should be limiting :) |
| 04:52.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Run a packet sniffer on A, B, C, or D |
| 04:52.10 | Arrowmaster | warden cant know if i have tcpdump running on my router or not |
| 04:52.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Lukian: maybe maybe not. :) |
| 04:53.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Sixen: keep in mind that your WoW data is going to pass through any number of other routers before it hits the WoW servers. Warden can't check out what those are doing, including sniffing/changing traffic, because warden isn't running on those machines |
| 04:53.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Make sense? |
| 04:53.29 | Sixen | Wait... What? Run WS from another computer? |
| 04:53.38 | ScytheBlade1 | ^ |
| 04:53.41 | ScytheBlade1 | What I just said :) |
| 04:53.51 | Lukian | exactly :p |
| 04:53.54 | Sixen | So then how do they ban people for hacking if they can't see it? :P |
| 04:53.57 | ScytheBlade1 | You as a player sniffing WoW traffic would be against the ToU |
| 04:53.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Well uh |
| 04:54.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Exactly |
| 04:54.04 | Esamynn | anyone know where the practice dummies went? |
| 04:54.05 | Sixen | heh... |
| 04:54.10 | Esamynn | on the beta |
| 04:54.10 | ScytheBlade1 | That's why I said it's a very grey line and etc :) |
| 04:54.23 | Sixen | Time to setup a fake account! |
| 04:54.28 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-4-118.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:54.33 | Sixen | 10day free trials are limitless! Mwhahaha! |
| 04:54.39 | kd3 | they're still there, es; underbelly in dalaran... think they're in mi:7 in sw... |
| 04:54.47 | Esamynn | did they move them? |
| 04:55.09 | WobWork | sbo: You've seen that lecture on makingmoney on wow? =) |
| 04:55.24 | ScytheBlade1 | WobWork: nope |
| 04:55.59 | WobWork | Industrial has the link |
| 05:02.56 | NeoTron | so I've noticed if I have a macro with a trinket and an ability and spam it, the cast bar gets removed and it says the cast fails |
| 05:03.04 | NeoTron | this happens both in x-perl and quartz |
| 05:03.15 | NeoTron | but it doesn't happen with the default blizzard cast bar |
| 05:04.35 | NightHawkTheSane | things that kind of make me cry.. "we were getting attuned for onyxia and trying to get the head from /some guy/ in ubrs" >< |
| 05:08.07 | Shirik | night all |
| 05:09.27 | Fisker- | night |
| 05:10.29 | NeoTron | ok so the problem is that spell_cast_failed is triggered on the spell that doesn't cast |
| 05:10.33 | NeoTron | in 2.4 that doesnt' seem to happen |
| 05:11.27 | NightHawkTheSane | turkey club: swiss or provolone? |
| 05:16.10 | Dewin | pepperjack |
| 05:16.13 | Dewin | there is no other answer. |
| 05:22.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (n=Sixen@12-210-157-250.client.mchsi.com) |
| 05:28.18 | Thunder_Child | Dewin, there is always another answer |
| 05:30.53 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont have pepperjack, only swiss, provo, and chedder |
| 05:30.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 05:31.05 | NightHawkTheSane | i went with a slice of swiss and a slice of provolone |
| 05:33.36 | Dewin | Anybody good with coming up with terminology for things? |
| 05:34.33 | Iriel | Dewin: depends on the 'things' |
| 05:35.06 | Dewin | In Progression, you can add/remove 'things' from one of the bars, such as Experience, Pet XP, Cenarion Expedition rep, Leatherworking skill, etc. |
| 05:35.23 | Dewin | I internally call them 'modes' for the time being, as in 'the bar is in Experience mode' |
| 05:35.26 | Dewin | but I really don't like that term |
| 05:35.53 | Iriel | targets? trackers? tracks? progress elements? progressions? monitors? meters? |
| 05:35.54 | NightHawkTheSane | mm.. home made turkey club... |
| 05:36.16 | Iriel | goals? |
| 05:36.25 | Dewin | hmm |
| 05:36.33 | Dewin | well that's something to mull over at least |
| 05:37.06 | Dewin | If it helps see it in context, there's going to be a UI with two listboxes and you'll be able to add things from one to the other |
| 05:37.18 | Thunder_Child | i think there is a managing CS term for it |
| 05:37.24 | Dewin | so Selected <term> and Available <term> |
| 05:37.26 | Thunder_Child | i had a class in it |
| 05:37.27 | Iriel | Metrics? |
| 05:37.36 | Thunder_Child | when doing a project |
| 05:37.41 | Thunder_Child | it was like the timeline |
| 05:37.47 | Thunder_Child | of things to complete |
| 05:38.00 | Thunder_Child | and you had key somethings in them |
| 05:38.05 | Thunder_Child | my brain fails |
| 05:38.05 | Iriel | Milestones |
| 05:38.16 | Thunder_Child | ya |
| 05:38.27 | Dewin | yeah, that doesn't *realy* work here |
| 05:38.33 | Iriel | Metrics works tho? |
| 05:38.39 | Thunder_Child | but it was the big one i was thinking of |
| 05:38.40 | Iriel | A metric is a measurable-something |
| 05:38.46 | Dewin | though I might add 'goal' for when you specifically say "Track remaining XP up until level X" |
| 05:39.23 | Dewin | I still need to write the tradeskills module. |
| 05:39.32 | Dewin | But... I don't even know what the API functions are for that |
| 05:39.41 | Iriel | At least there's only one set now 8-) |
| 05:39.47 | Iriel | (well, post 3.x) |
| 05:40.03 | Dewin | I'm developing for 3.x :) |
| 05:40.16 | Iriel | WoW has already taken 'stats' |
| 05:40.26 | Iriel | I think Metrics is probably the best of the terms I came up with 8-) |
| 05:40.42 | Dewin | Sounds too technical but I might just use it anyways |
| 05:40.43 | NightHawkTheSane | also, hudson hawk = win. |
| 05:41.04 | Dewin | but saying a bar is in 'experience mode' sounds good, saying "These are the current modes added to this bar" does not. >.> |
| 05:41.12 | Keias | Why do they call you Butterfinger? |
| 05:41.19 | Iriel | But 'There are the current metrics on this bar' is fine |
| 05:41.33 | Dewin | .... |
| 05:41.36 | Dewin | Displays... |
| 05:41.51 | Iriel | Values? |
| 05:41.55 | Dewin | no, because 'currently displaying' <list> suggests it's displaying them all at once |
| 05:41.58 | Iriel | "Things" isn't too bad y'know |
| 05:42.03 | Dewin | lol |
| 05:42.18 | Dewin | that's it, I'm renaming my addon MetricThingDisplayer |
| 05:42.23 | Dewin | MTD, for short. |
| 05:42.38 | Thunder_Child | ~wtf mtd |
| 05:42.39 | Dewin | It'll certainly get more "What the heck?" views than the current name does |
| 05:42.47 | Thunder_Child | at least it doesnt alread mean soemthing |
| 05:42.59 | Dewin | Memory Technology Devices, actually |
| 05:43.14 | Dewin | but that term is ollld |
| 05:43.28 | Dewin | refers to stuff like smartcards IIRC |
| 05:43.49 | Thunder_Child | no pun intened i assume |
| 05:43.53 | *** join/#wowuidev bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 05:43.53 | Thunder_Child | or i will have to kll you |
| 05:44.04 | bleetah | lololol http://interviewpalin.com |
| 05:44.14 | Dewin | the pun is so unintended that I didn't even catch it. |
| 05:44.25 | Thunder_Child | >.< well i did damit |
| 05:44.46 | Dewin | what was it? |
| 05:45.04 | Thunder_Child | IIRC & "Memory Technology Devices" |
| 05:45.28 | Dewin | ... wow, it was a good one too. |
| 05:45.44 | bleetah | Q: How will you fix the economy? |
| 05:45.45 | Dewin | would have been more funny if I said "If memory serves" though |
| 05:45.57 | bleetah | A: The economy and putting it back on the verbiage that Senator McCain chose to use because the mission is to control and to control and to control much more stringent oversight regime government can play a very, very hungry domestic markets that need that oil first. |
| 05:46.38 | Dewin | old concept is old |
| 05:46.46 | Dewin | http://www.lipsum.com/feed/html |
| 05:48.48 | Dewin | I also need a terminology difference for 'idle' versus 'inactive' |
| 05:48.52 | bleetah | has lorem ipsum changed recently? i thought the text was static /shrug anyways, see old dan quayle generator for old concept is old wrt unintelligble vps |
| 05:49.10 | Dewin | Currently: When a bar receives an update, it goes to 'active', certain level of alpha |
| 05:49.20 | Dewin | After a preset delay w/o updates, it fades to 'idle' |
| 05:49.24 | Dewin | less alpha |
| 05:49.34 | Dewin | Then after quite some time it can fade to inactive (hidden completely) |
| 05:49.44 | Iriel | 'stable' 'static' 'unchanged' 'pending' 'quiet' ? |
| 05:50.04 | Dewin | hmm |
| 05:50.10 | Iriel | 'stopped' |
| 05:50.38 | bleetah | http://michaelpalinforpresident.com/ is betterer, tho |
| 05:53.04 | Keias | http://www.votejohnmcclane.com/ imo |
| 05:53.15 | bleetah | ah, interviewpalin is apparently a markov chain. so, no. not a lorem ipsum. markov generator addon would be cute, make my raid instructions totally unintelligible, as opposed to just mostly |
| 05:59.24 | Esamynn | what's is a good damage meter these days? (that has a version that works on beta) |
| 05:59.47 | NightHawkTheSane | recount seems to work fine for me |
| 06:00.36 | Dewin | recount gives me errors even when I'm not in combat >.> |
| 06:00.42 | Duman | eh? |
| 06:00.48 | Dewin | unless there's been an update |
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| 06:00.59 | Thunder_Child | lol http://www.google.com/search2001.html |
| 06:01.02 | Duman | the only errors I get from recount are from combat log data it has no idea about |
| 06:01.15 | Esamynn | I was hoping wowwebstats would handle beta logs, but no such luck :( |
| 06:01.21 | Dewin | sweet! |
| 06:01.35 | Dewin | My old forum is the #1 result for its name :) |
| 06:01.49 | Esamynn | heheh |
| 06:02.41 | Dewin | "World of Warcraft is working on a major feature looking closer at all five races and their roles in the game, so look for that to be a five-part series ..." |
| 06:03.39 | Dewin | this is interesting to search for |
| 06:06.53 | Thunder_Child | http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1832002 |
| 06:10.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Fatalis (n=fatalis@68-188-68-189.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 06:11.35 | Thunder_Child | "A new study on the "Happiness Index" polled 8,500 Australians aged 18-64, and it found that for men, they were happiest while on the internet. For women, on the other hand, they were made the most happy while spending quality time with the family." |
| 06:11.53 | Thunder_Child | why aussies? |
| 06:14.22 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@wnn72113.wireless.dtu.dk) |
| 06:14.55 | ccox | Thunder_Child: because Americans aren't happy right now |
| 06:15.55 | Thunder_Child | ccox, but the unhappyness would be standard between men and women which would cancel each other out |
| 06:16.13 | ccox | Thunder_Child: maybe |
| 06:16.34 | ccox | Thunder_Child: or maybe American's are happiest at a time they couldn't print in a family journal :-) |
| 06:17.24 | Thunder_Child | ccox, as long as the happiness/unhappiness is even over both sexes it does not matter |
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| 07:18.14 | nevcairiel | oh yay resto druid changes |
| 07:18.56 | bleetah | new ninds has been announced.. can anyone read japanese? is the wireless still gimp? http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/dsi.html |
| 07:20.51 | Elkano | not enought to read/understand that ^^' been some time since I took courses |
| 07:21.52 | bleetah | bugger, oh well thx anyway :) |
| 07:22.52 | Diskmaster | bleetah, same information is on all the gaming news sites already |
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| 07:24.07 | bleetah | soz, the last three I looked at didn't mention the wireless stack at all... thought I'd ask in here as someone may have knowledge/interest etc. |
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| 08:22.17 | [SW]Dodge | Cairenn: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17207&page=14#262 :) |
| 08:22.54 | Cairenn | I know, plan on talking to them at the end of the week if no one else receives a key by then |
| 08:24.03 | [SW]Dodge | Cairenn: okay :D |
| 08:24.41 | Industrial | ScytheBlade1: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4191558749083980088&ei=6YTkSPDhDo7EiAKbuvGYCw&q=Greg+Hoglund&hl=en |
| 08:24.46 | Industrial | ScytheBlade1: then http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-243449809912903881&ei=NYXkSNasK5CsiALXyN2iCw&q=Greg+Hoglund&hl=en |
| 08:24.57 | Industrial | very interesting imo |
| 08:25.25 | Industrial | (dunno if I'm supposed to link that here or not >_>) |
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| 08:36.18 | Keias | Thats an awesome link |
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| 08:39.15 | Industrial | I think everyone deserves to know that it exists, and how it works =) |
| 08:40.26 | Keias | I found the whole banning scheme interesting |
| 08:41.09 | Industrial | yeh |
| 08:41.43 | AnduinLothar | Holy shit Heroic Utgarde Pinicle is hard |
| 08:41.59 | Tem | but goddamn that last boss is awesome |
| 08:42.04 | Tem | oh man what a rush |
| 08:42.06 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 08:42.14 | AnduinLothar | lot of strategy on that one |
| 08:42.23 | AnduinLothar | that gauntlet tho.. |
| 08:42.30 | AnduinLothar | we were so undergeard for |
| 08:42.35 | AnduinLothar | heh |
| 08:43.45 | Dashkal | wow... |
| 08:43.55 | Dashkal | ok, I had no business in heroic UP... |
| 08:44.17 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 08:44.27 | AnduinLothar | you died more times than i did. that's impressive |
| 08:44.33 | Dashkal | not at my gear level, though it did just improve thanks to dinging revered |
| 08:44.36 | Dashkal | I'm pretty damn tired |
| 08:44.43 | Dashkal | Should have gone to bed two hours ago |
| 08:44.59 | Dashkal | so with that |
| 08:45.00 | Dashkal | zzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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| 13:10.58 | Lunessa | STATION! |
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| 13:12.38 | Lopeppeppy | Good morning, Lunessa. |
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| 13:41.12 | Shirik|zZz | Morning Lunessa, Lopeppeppy |
| 13:41.17 | Shirik | Shirik |
| 13:41.31 | Lunessa | Morning. |
| 13:42.06 | Lopeppeppy | I think we're the only three in the channel this morning. Neat, private party. Shuffle the cards, Shiibot. |
| 13:44.07 | Lopeppeppy | 4th hand for bridge then I guess. |
| 13:44.07 | Lunessa | ... ewwww... slobber. |
| 13:44.18 | Lunessa | Whist. We must play Whist. |
| 13:44.26 | Lopeppeppy | I do not know this game. You will teach it? |
| 13:45.32 | Lunessa | Yes. I can teach it. English lords have lost everything plaything this game. It's a good one. |
| 13:46.13 | Industrial | Whist? |
| 13:46.31 | Lopeppeppy | .... I don't play for bets. We have to use bananas or toothpicks. |
| 13:46.43 | Lopeppeppy | I played strip poker only once, I realize my limits in this whole "gamble" thing. |
| 13:47.03 | Industrial | dress in layers? :p |
| 13:47.17 | Industrial | "yes, another sweater" |
| 13:47.35 | Lopeppeppy | No way. I just don't do it anymore. :) |
| 13:47.52 | Lunessa | http://www.pagat.com/whist/whist.html |
| 13:48.02 | alestane | I've tried whist, can't really get into it so far. |
| 13:48.35 | alestane | They insist on evaluating everything in terms of eight when it really makes sense in terms of twelve. |
| 13:49.13 | Lunessa | It's best palyed with 4, though 2 and 3 player variants can be fun too. |
| 13:49.25 | Lopeppeppy | It's just like spades. Except there's no trump-suit. |
| 13:49.26 | Wobin | So how many have we got? |
| 13:49.37 | Wobin | 500? |
| 13:49.37 | Lunessa | I used to spend as much time playing that as I spend playing WoW. |
| 13:49.46 | Shirik | Hearts is better |
| 13:49.57 | Lopeppeppy | I think Hearts and Spades are the same game, just different. |
| 13:50.06 | Lunessa | Peppy - bidding determines the trump suit. Well, in the bidding variants. |
| 13:50.08 | Shirik | Gin and War are the same game, just different, too |
| 13:50.51 | Wobin | oh it's like 500 except without the bidding |
| 13:50.59 | Lunessa | I mostly played bidding variants. |
| 13:51.27 | Lopeppeppy | Seems easy to learn |
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| 13:52.12 | Wobin | 500 was always fun |
| 13:52.19 | Wobin | although the scoring was confusing |
| 13:52.37 | Lunessa | The Bid Whist variant has complex social play aspects. And it can get quite intense. |
| 13:53.12 | Wobin | Misere |
| 13:53.34 | Wobin | That was fun =P |
| 13:53.44 | Wobin | You have to show all your cards. Then lose every round |
| 13:54.22 | Wobin | it's also a partner game |
| 13:56.48 | Lopeppeppy | I love to play to lose. |
| 13:56.55 | Lopeppeppy | That is also why I don't play strip poker. |
| 13:56.56 | alestane | And there's this whole business with bids that don't count, just they're supposed to tell your partner what you have. |
| 13:57.38 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: I suppose that depends who you're playing with. |
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| 13:59.08 | Wobin | alestane: yeah |
| 13:59.11 | Wobin | 500 uses that a lot |
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| 13:59.33 | Wobin | The first bid always is to inform your partner what you have in your hand |
| 14:00.04 | Wobin | Then if your partner outbids you, you know that you both have good hands for that suit |
| 14:00.11 | Lopeppeppy | Why can't I just TELL alestane what I have? |
| 14:00.12 | Wobin | if they pass, you know they can't support the bid |
| 14:00.19 | Lopeppeppy | Pass little post it notes across the table or something. |
| 14:00.20 | Wobin | Cause that's considered "Table talk" |
| 14:00.25 | Lopeppeppy | I like to talk when sitting at tables. |
| 14:00.41 | Wobin | The challenge is to play the game with your partner, but not know precisely their cards |
| 14:01.07 | Fisker- | The UI dev pack from blizzard |
| 14:01.08 | Wobin | Otherwise you might as well sit next to another and share a hand and just play one on one =P |
| 14:01.13 | Fisker- | Anyone remember the shortcut for it? |
| 14:01.32 | Wobin | ~wowui |
| 14:01.35 | alestane | We generally play Euchre, Cribbage, Hell, or occasionally Sueca (sp?). |
| 14:01.40 | Fisker- | didn't work for me |
| 14:01.46 | Fisker- | ~literal wowui |
| 14:01.49 | Wobin | can't recall, sorry, Fisk |
| 14:01.53 | Fisker- | purl must be lagging then |
| 14:02.05 | Wobin | Sueca? |
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| 14:02.28 | alestane | I'm not sure of the spelling. It's this Portugese game my friend taught us. |
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| 14:02.53 | Wobin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sueca_(game) |
| 14:03.49 | alestane | Suits are ordered A, 7, K, J, Q, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2. |
| 14:04.18 | alestane | Aces are worth 11, 7s are worth 10, Kings are worth 4, Jacks are worth 3 and Queens are worth 2. |
| 14:04.44 | Wobin | the ... rubber? |
| 14:04.58 | Lunessa | peppy - you can play strip poker with me any time. And you can skip the cards and go straight to "lose." :P |
| 14:05.03 | alestane | There is a trump suit but it's turned up instead of bid or chosen. |
| 14:05.12 | Lunessa | What? We ALL thought it! |
| 14:05.33 | alestane | Lunessa: Yes, but you said it. |
| 14:05.34 | Kalroth | I didn't! |
| 14:06.25 | Lunessa | Naturally. Everyone has one friend/accquaitnece who utters all the shocking, strange, or bizzare things. I endeavor to be that person. |
| 14:06.32 | alestane | Oh, and the dealer has their choice about which way around the table they deal and when they turn up trump, but the player to their right shuffles and the player to their left cuts, and the deal passes to the right, not the left. |
| 14:06.48 | Shirik | and we love you for it, Lunessa |
| 14:07.41 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa and I understand one another perfectly. From him, I accept the inner thoughts without ironic anger. |
| 14:07.56 | Shirik | Law360, New York (October 01, 2008) -- Blizzard Entertainment Inc., creator of the popular online role-playing game World of Warcraft, has won $6 million in damages in a copyright battle stemming from a software bot created by MDY Industries LLC. The bot allows users to continue playing the time-consuming game while away from their computers. |
| 14:08.34 | ShaneSveller | That's the glider bot, right? |
| 14:08.37 | Lopeppeppy | Winning the award has nothing to do with collecting it... but still, precedent is set. |
| 14:08.38 | alestane | Wobin: Not sure why your link didn't work for me, but at least I spelled it right. |
| 14:08.40 | Lopeppeppy | That's Glider, yes. |
| 14:09.03 | Wobin | alestane: Probably cause your client ignores the brackets |
| 14:09.06 | kneeki | I've ran into an issue. If someone who was using my mod previously, updates to one of my later versions, they run into errors saying that certain variables do not exist in my DB table. I thought that just dropping the table code in the base of the Lua file would remedy that but it has not. Is there something I'm missing? http://www.wowi.pastey.net/97342 <- in the base of the Lua file |
| 14:09.28 | Lunessa | Notice how most of the coverage of this judgement implies that glider is actually providing an intelligent/benneficial service? |
| 14:10.12 | Shirik | I love having a lawyer for a father. He always reads the interesting stuff to send to me :P |
| 14:10.31 | alestane | kneeki: If you're initializing them during load, they'll be overwritten when your SavedVariables load. Initialize them in response to ADDON_LOADED for your Addon name. |
| 14:10.45 | *** join/#wowuidev copystring (n=copystri@p548A14E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:11.01 | alestane | Or a later event such as VARIABLES_LOADED or PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD. |
| 14:11.01 | kneeki | alestane: And that will always create the variables I add in new versions if they do not exist? |
| 14:11.58 | alestane | Any version you right should make sure that default values are present for all values it expects to use. It should do this on or after your addon's ADDON_LOADED event. |
| 14:12.06 | alestane | s/right/write/ |
| 14:12.19 | kneeki | alestane: Mhmm, i agree |
| 14:13.14 | kneeki | So, http://www.wowi.pastey.net/97344 ? |
| 14:13.34 | kneeki | ^ snippet from my events handler |
| 14:14.27 | alestane | Something like that. I actually use a dedicated ADDON_LOADED handler that sets its own OnEvent handler to the real one (if needed) after completing initialization. |
| 14:15.23 | alestane | Although I don't think Lua ever unloads or GCs actual bytecode during a session. |
| 14:15.42 | kneeki | Is there something wrong with the way I did it? |
| 14:16.23 | alestane | Fisker-: Dev kit for Mac or Windows? |
| 14:16.44 | alestane | kneeki: Nothing actually wrong, no, not that I can see. |
| 14:17.04 | kneeki | alestane: Great :) |
| 14:17.09 | alestane | Except, yes, one thing. |
| 14:17.22 | kneeki | alestane: What's a dedicated ADDON_LOADED event you were talking about |
| 14:17.27 | alestane | It'll reset to the defaults every time. |
| 14:17.36 | kneeki | alestane: ... Well, that's a problem |
| 14:17.47 | alestane | One second. |
| 14:19.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Tiven (n=Tifa@athedsl-4389089.home.otenet.gr) |
| 14:20.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Netcurse (n=chatzill@76.73.155.18) |
| 14:21.46 | alestane | kneeki: http://www.wowi.pastey.net/97345 |
| 14:22.21 | kneeki | alestane: I was thinking of doing it that way also. Is that what you recommend for all authors to do? |
| 14:22.32 | alestane | Fisker-: Windows UI kit at http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/WoW/other/AddOnKit.zip; for Mac, change .zip to .dmg. |
| 14:22.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Beladona (n=Beladona@24.129.136.26) |
| 14:22.42 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 14:23.07 | alestane | kneeki: If you want to inherit settings from previous versions, but also add new ones, you pretty much have to do something like that. |
| 14:23.18 | kneeki | alestane: Mmk, thanks! |
| 14:23.29 | *** join/#wowuidev AckisWork (i=8ee55bc8@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis) |
| 14:24.38 | Lopeppeppy | alestane rocks my world. |
| 14:24.54 | alestane | For any particular reason this time? |
| 14:25.04 | Lopeppeppy | You're an awesome helpful dinosaur! |
| 14:25.18 | alestane | I'll take it. |
| 14:25.40 | alestane | Helpful -> dinosaur -> awesome! |
| 14:26.01 | Lunessa | I thought the answer he was looking for was, "Because he's vigorous, virile, handsome, and chicks dig him." |
| 14:26.19 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-141-134-74.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:26.40 | Lopeppeppy | I only share those sorts of value statements in private, not all males prefer to hear themselves memorialized in public. |
| 14:27.16 | alestane | "Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people LIKE me!" |
| 14:27.56 | Lunessa | Self-Affirmation! |
| 14:28.56 | alestane | With Stuart Smalley. Trying to remember if that was SCTV or SNL. |
| 14:29.02 | Lopeppeppy | SNL |
| 14:30.04 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-224-109.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:33.32 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin (n=quoin@114-30-113-165.ip.adam.com.au) |
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| 14:40.10 | alestane | Never underestimate the power of Saturday Night Live to kill a conversation. |
| 14:40.56 | Lunessa | ... like a glass of fine chamnapnge. |
| 14:41.08 | Lopeppeppy | In the eyes. |
| 14:41.11 | zenzelezz | I thought champagne got you talking? |
| 14:41.25 | Lopeppeppy | Not me. Makes me sneeze. |
| 14:41.28 | Lopeppeppy | Rum and coke for Peppy |
| 14:44.42 | Lunessa | I was quoting a recurring Christopher Walken bit from SNL. |
| 14:45.04 | zenzelezz | I'm Norwegian, we've barely heard of that show here |
| 14:45.34 | |pez| | What show? :o |
| 14:45.46 | Lunessa | That's ok. All we want from you is painters, chocolate, watches and legal hashish. :P |
| 14:45.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 14:45.58 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 14:46.08 | |pez| | legal hashish from Norway? |
| 14:46.21 | zenzelezz | don't think we're big on watches either |
| 14:46.40 | |pez| | chocolate is awesome though. |
| 14:46.40 | Lunessa | I'm just picking random items from the small cluster of countries in your region. |
| 14:46.48 | zenzelezz | but you're welcome to have our painters, all they ever do is go on the news every other year to complain about not getting enough money from the state to be a jobless bum |
| 14:46.54 | jaxdahl2 | are NPC names in the WoW data files or cached somewhere in there? |
| 14:47.00 | |pez| | Lunessa: legal hashis is probably netherlands. XD |
| 14:47.11 | Lunessa | Probably. |
| 14:47.55 | |pez| | You made me want kvikklunsj |
| 14:47.59 | |pez| | ;__; |
| 14:48.08 | Lunessa | Well, that's something then. |
| 14:48.18 | |pez| | I don't have any! |
| 14:48.56 | Lunessa | I'm sure there's a store somewhere that will sell you such a thing. Or, if not a store, then a guy in a trench coat. |
| 14:49.55 | |pez| | It's a chocolate |
| 14:50.05 | jaxdahl2 | ahhh, creaturecache.wdb has the NPC ID and names |
| 14:50.16 | Lunessa | I guessed, but I'm sticking to the guy in the trench coat idea. |
| 14:50.22 | alestane | That does not necessarily rule out Lunessa's statement. |
| 14:50.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Lyn (n=Lyn@Ld3c8.l.pppool.de) |
| 14:51.22 | |pez| | True I guess. :P |
| 14:51.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Atriace (n=omnizeta@188.118.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 14:51.53 | alestane | I hope this means something more sensible in the local language because it comes out rather odd in English: "Pornping Tower Hotel" |
| 14:51.54 | Lunessa | We're on day 9 of no WoW, and day 8 of no internet at home. I'm substituting caffeine and books, but I don't know how much more I can take. |
| 14:52.17 | |pez| | .. Pornping Tower Hotel? |
| 14:52.32 | alestane | It's apparently a hotel in Thailand. |
| 14:52.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-41-179.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:52.55 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:53.08 | alestane | The name just seems strange once it's rendered into English, that's all. |
| 14:54.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah (n=Slakah@5acd4394.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:54.32 | jaxdahl2 | anyone have a script that will convert a lua data file to a perl hash? |
| 14:54.46 | Shirik | lua data file? |
| 14:55.12 | alestane | jaxdahl: You mean like a SavedVariables.lua file? |
| 14:55.13 | jaxdahl2 | perhaps you can figure out what i mean |
| 14:55.15 | jaxdahl2 | yes |
| 14:55.33 | alestane | Since I don't know Perl, no. |
| 14:55.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Netcurse (n=chatzill@adsl-074-239-065-141.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:56.27 | Lunessa | I haven't written anything in Perl since 2000. |
| 14:56.41 | zenzelezz | but you still carry the scars |
| 14:56.46 | Lunessa | Yes. |
| 14:57.02 | Shirik | But perl is the only language you can use random symbols all you want |
| 14:57.22 | alestane | And is that desirable? |
| 14:57.24 | Shirik | What other language lets you do something like while(<=>) print($_) |
| 14:57.40 | Shirik | alestane: I hate perl :P I'm just having funm |
| 14:57.42 | Shirik | fun |
| 14:57.47 | Lunessa | Shirik: No, not really. Perl is the only language which requires you forget all syntax for other languages. |
| 14:58.42 | Lunessa | Actually, it's not that bad, really. It's just like other interpreted languages that grew beyond their original mission. |
| 14:58.56 | alestane | Scope Creep ftl. |
| 14:59.26 | zenzelezz | I don't know perl, but I like it for the fact that it didn't seem to try to be like any other language |
| 14:59.40 | Shirik | including english |
| 14:59.56 | zenzelezz | most programming languages aren't very English anyway |
| 15:00.07 | zenzelezz | and they shouldn't be. Go COBOL or whatever it was if you want that |
| 15:00.13 | Shirik | I find them to be |
| 15:00.29 | Lopeppeppy | scope creep sucks. |
| 15:00.32 | alestane | I'd like to see a programming language founded around the grammar of, say, Finnish. |
| 15:00.46 | Shirik | Egyptian |
| 15:00.53 | |pez| | Japanese! |
| 15:00.56 | Shirik | Heiroglyphics (sp?) |
| 15:00.57 | zenzelezz | Ei sa peittää |
| 15:01.07 | alestane | |pez|: Wasn't Ruby designed by the Japanese? |
| 15:01.33 | |pez| | alestane: Dunno, but last time i heard, Ruby was very englishy |
| 15:03.02 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, you're mean. |
| 15:03.05 | Shirik | void main() { nito("Ohyaou gozamiasu!"); } |
| 15:03.06 | Lunessa | Most languages end up being very much like English. The majority of the world speaks, or has adapted to English. |
| 15:03.06 | alestane | Of course, if you really built a programming language around Japanese, You'd get statements like a + b, c =. |
| 15:03.07 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@212251215177.customer.cdi.no) |
| 15:03.16 | Shirik | rofl |
| 15:03.20 | Shirik | so true alestane |
| 15:03.42 | Shirik | we could design the language yoda-like |
| 15:03.45 | alestane | It's the only living human language I've encountered that's actually in RPN. |
| 15:04.20 | jaxdahl2 | i removed all the []s and changed most of the =s to =>s |
| 15:04.36 | Shirik | er, sorry, that was very wrong |
| 15:04.37 | Shirik | read the wrong line |
| 15:04.47 | jaxdahl2 | now i need to figure out what to do about foo =>{{bar},{baz}...} |
| 15:04.56 | Shirik | void main() { ito("Ohyaou gozamisu!"); } |
| 15:05.27 | Shirik | okay I'm going to head out, test mnow |
| 15:05.28 | Shirik | now* |
| 15:05.30 | Shirik | have fun!! |
| 15:06.57 | jaxdahl2 | oh duh |
| 15:07.02 | jaxdahl2 | Inline::Lua to the rescue |
| 15:08.40 | alestane | In a Japanese programming language you wouldn't store a value in a name, you'd a"affix" the name to the value. |
| 15:08.43 | krka_ | so... RPN is actually JN |
| 15:09.16 | jaxdahl2 | oh dammit |
| 15:09.24 | jaxdahl2 | Inline::Lua requies a working lua install |
| 15:09.37 | jaxdahl2 | i was trying to avoid doing that |
| 15:12.23 | alestane | And there'd be a simple way to distinguish variables from reserved words...one would be in hiragana and the others word be in katakana. |
| 15:12.25 | *** join/#wowuidev schnoggo_ (n=root@75.146.147.129) |
| 15:12.29 | Atriace | lua> function foo(arg) if arg then a="works" return a; else return return; end function bloomingOnion(arg) if not arg then foo("zanga") end print("wazzup") end |
| 15:12.29 | lua_bot | Atriace: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near 'return' |
| 15:12.33 | amro | rofl alestane |
| 15:12.46 | amro | api calls in kanji |
| 15:12.58 | alestane | Why not? |
| 15:13.54 | amro | don't forget formal/informal synta |
| 15:14.02 | amro | s/nta/ntax/ |
| 15:14.08 | alestane | It makes perfect sense. Language grammar in hiragana (most of them would be single characters anyway), variable names in katakana, API calls with meaninfgul names for self-documenting code... |
| 15:14.33 | alestane | amro: One doesn't need to use distal style when talking to a computer, although some people probably do. |
| 15:15.03 | jaxdahl2 | would "hello world" be a single kanji symbol? |
| 15:15.14 | alestane | No, but "print" would. |
| 15:15.44 | *** join/#wowuidev schnoggo__ (n=root@75.146.147.129) |
| 15:16.37 | amro | alestane, do me a favor. and promise you will never unleash such a horror upon the world |
| 15:17.34 | alestane | ãããã«ã¡ã¯ãã¿ããªãããã¨å° |
| 15:17.44 | alestane | I promise nothing. |
| 15:17.46 | Lunessa | alestane: because I don't want to install another gorram keyboard? |
| 15:20.02 | *** join/#wowuidev hipjipp (n=hipjipp@84-217-116-57.tn.glocalnet.net) |
| 15:20.20 | hipjipp | evening people! anyone awake? =) |
| 15:21.02 | amro | alestane: I just thought about mutliple nested function calls and almost passed out |
| 15:21.10 | amro | evening hipjipp |
| 15:21.35 | alestane | amro: Since it would be a naturally stack-based language, I don't see why that would be hard. |
| 15:23.30 | Lunessa | I will write in LOLCODE before I write in Japanese. |
| 15:23.45 | alestane | Lunessa: No one said you have to. |
| 15:23.52 | amro | I was about to say something like that, but I'm willing to go as low as brainfuck |
| 15:24.09 | amro | alestane: its mere existance would be cause for nightmares |
| 15:24.26 | Lunessa | It'll be easier to learn lolcode. :P My Japanese is terrible. And I can't read Kanji at all. |
| 15:24.27 | alestane | For people on THIS side of the Pacific, maybe. |
| 15:24.51 | amro | I doubt koreans would be happy about it :) |
| 15:25.01 | amro | the chinese wouldn't be too excited either |
| 15:25.30 | alestane | My understanding is that Korean grammar isn't all that different, so I'm sure a dialect would be created fairly quickly. |
| 15:25.33 | amro | they'd probably make it political too, so add political controversy to the fatur list |
| 15:25.44 | amro | s/fatur/feature/ |
| 15:26.55 | alestane | From what I understand, Chinese and English grammar are similar enough that English-derived programming languages are less of a brainbend. |
| 15:27.17 | hipjipp | I'm just stopping by irc to look for some recruit some devent coders for my mind-breaking addon; Htalents. If you're a decent coder looking for a challenge, pm me for more info. =) |
| 15:27.39 | zenzelezz | decent or deviant? |
| 15:27.58 | hipjipp | zenzelezz: decent.. how are you a deviant coder? :P |
| 15:28.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Josh_Borke (n=jk275@WoWUIDev/WoWInterface/LegoBlock/joshborke) |
| 15:28.09 | zenzelezz | if you only knew |
| 15:28.34 | Lunessa | zenzelezz: is norwigian. of course he's a deviant. :P (I kid, I kid!) |
| 15:28.56 | hipjipp | Lunessa: I'm swedish, am i deviant aswell? :P |
| 15:29.01 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 15:29.05 | zenzelezz | and proud of it! |
| 15:29.05 | Lunessa | Very much so. |
| 15:29.25 | Lunessa | Might as well throw the Danish in there too. |
| 15:29.27 | zenzelezz | I write my for loops as recursive functions with static variables! (I don't, but I could...) |
| 15:29.37 | hipjipp | hehe |
| 15:29.51 | zenzelezz | I don't know about that Lunessa, Norwegian and Swedish at least you can understand... Danish is incomprehensible to everyone |
| 15:30.04 | Lunessa | Can I offend anyone else this morning? I haven't met my quota yet. |
| 15:30.08 | hipjipp | Danish is just throat noices |
| 15:30.09 | hipjipp | :P |
| 15:30.16 | zenzelezz | who have you offended so far? |
| 15:30.26 | Lunessa | So far, apparently, no one. |
| 15:30.36 | hipjipp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk |
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| 15:31.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah (n=Slakah@5acd4394.bb.sky.com) |
| 15:31.25 | alestane | zenzelezz: In spite of which, Danes have little trouble understanding Norwegians. |
| 15:31.30 | hipjipp | Evening slakah |
| 15:31.53 | zenzelezz | alestane: that's because Norwegian is a bastardized Danish |
| 15:32.01 | Lopeppeppy | rawr |
| 15:32.07 | alestane | Rawr. |
| 15:32.08 | amro | Lunessa: if you're desperate, try the japanese. |
| 15:32.11 | zenzelezz | we sound like the Danes would if they removed the potatoes from their mouths before speaking |
| 15:32.37 | Slakah | hipjipp: hi |
| 15:32.39 | Lunessa | that video is funny |
| 15:33.18 | Lopeppeppy | You haven't managed to offend me yet, Lunessa. |
| 15:33.58 | Lunessa | :D |
| 15:34.15 | krka_ | i agree, i can understand norwegian but not dansh |
| 15:34.39 | cogwheel | rawr |
| 15:35.30 | Lunessa | RAWR |
| 15:35.32 | haste | which makes norwegian clearly superior |
| 15:35.39 | molgar | i getting "nil" in this code, anyone know whats wrong ? buttonName:SetJustifyH("LEFT") |
| 15:35.43 | Lopeppeppy | My accent is better. |
| 15:35.45 | [Liquidor] | Danish is the true language of our planet! |
| 15:36.04 | alestane | I read something about the particular linguistic drift that's turned Norsk into Dansk, and why it's much easier for Danes to understand the Norwegians than vice versa, but I can't remember where. |
| 15:36.10 | haste | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk&fmt=18 comes to mind |
| 15:36.17 | zenzelezz | molgar: "getting nil" how? Is it saying buttonName or SetJustifyH are nil, or is the function call returning nil? |
| 15:37.17 | [Liquidor] | Do we have any Danes here btw? |
| 15:37.22 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@ATuileries-152-1-2-161.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:37.32 | zenzelezz | think there are a few |
| 15:37.42 | molgar | attempt to call method 'setjustifyh' ( a nil value) |
| 15:37.57 | molgar | or SetJustifyH* |
| 15:37.59 | [Liquidor] | Well I am a Dane, but didn't think there would be anyone else around here. |
| 15:38.18 | zenzelezz | molgar: are you calling it on the button, or the button's fontstring? |
| 15:38.21 | Lopeppeppy | afk for concentrations! |
| 15:38.32 | molgar | on the button |
| 15:38.57 | zenzelezz | as far as I know buttons don't have those functions, but the button's fontstring should |
| 15:39.31 | molgar | aha, so i have to make a fontstring on top of the button then |
| 15:39.40 | molgar | and button should have no text |
| 15:39.41 | zenzelezz | are you using a button template? |
| 15:39.44 | molgar | yeah |
| 15:39.52 | zenzelezz | then I believe it already has a fontstring |
| 15:40.05 | zenzelezz | look up the template in the Blizzard interface code, you should find the name there |
| 15:40.06 | alestane | I believe Buttons do actually inherit from FontString, or at least from FontInstance. |
| 15:40.07 | hipjipp | I'm looking to recruit some devent coders for my mind-breaking addon; Htalents. If you're a decent coder looking for a challenge, pm me for more info or join Htalents (currently empty) |
| 15:40.28 | zenzelezz | alestane: well, in that case I'm wrong obviously, but if they do then they should have SetJustifyH? |
| 15:40.44 | alestane | One second. |
| 15:40.50 | molgar | they have i use UIPanelButtonTemplate, and it should be possible |
| 15:40.57 | molgar | but in some strange reason it dont |
| 15:41.05 | molgar | maby its CENTER by default |
| 15:41.26 | molgar | cus i only getting CENTER |
| 15:42.20 | alestane | Buttons inherit FontInstance, I believe, but you can use Button:GetFontString() to manipulate the button's text. |
| 15:42.48 | molgar | oh, cool ! :D thx |
| 15:43.15 | *** join/#wowuidev wereHamster (n=tomc@dbservice.com) |
| 15:43.22 | zenzelezz | and my bad if I was spreading wrong info |
| 15:44.00 | alestane | Looks like Buttons don't actually inherit either one, actually, but :GetFontString() is apparently how you manipulate a button's label. |
| 15:44.01 | molgar | np :D at lest u tryed to help :D |
| 15:44.13 | wereHamster | and I was wondering why the channel was so quiet... until I saw that it wasn't #wowuidev but #shiibot -.- |
| 15:44.38 | hipjipp | I'm looking to recruit some decent coders for my yet-to-come mind-breaking addon; Htalents. If you're a decent coder looking for a challenge, pm me for more info or join Htalents (currently empty) (/join #Htalents) |
| 15:44.53 | wereHamster | Shiibot is stupid for kicking me out, he should know I'm not a spammer! |
| 15:45.32 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@ATuileries-152-1-2-161.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:47.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@62.242.38.50) |
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| 15:56.09 | Lunessa | wereHamster: I don't know. You keep sending me all those e-mails about getting a bigger peneeeeiz. |
| 15:56.18 | cogwheel | http://www.peugeot.co.uk/showrooms/107/parking-game/ |
| 15:56.46 | wereHamster | Lunessa: I thought you were interested. I'll stop sending you those right away |
| 15:58.26 | amro | wereHamster: take me off the list while you're at it. I already boug- i mean I'm not interested |
| 16:01.10 | p3lim | good place to upload small files? |
| 16:01.21 | p3lim | like, 900 bytes small :p |
| 16:02.50 | amro | pastebin? |
| 16:06.13 | haste | p3lim: you really shouldn't post in norwegian on wowi |
| 16:06.23 | haste | p3lim: all you do is exclude everyone who can't read it |
| 16:06.23 | p3lim | yeah i just saw it too |
| 16:06.41 | p3lim | never used the bug reports, though it acted like a pm, not public |
| 16:07.28 | p3lim | but i got you that patch file :) |
| 16:08.24 | haste | just fyi, most people use -u these days :p |
| 16:11.01 | Lunessa | reading the beta shaman forums makes me wonder if I'm crazy or the rest of the shaman community is. |
| 16:15.03 | amro | Lunessa: I wonder the same thing about the rest of the world when I read youtube comments |
| 16:15.35 | Lunessa | I've decided that my intuitive feel for game mechanics > people who parse and simulate everything. |
| 16:16.22 | p3lim | haste: -u ? |
| 16:16.53 | haste | argument you can pass to diff |
| 16:16.57 | p3lim | yeah |
| 16:17.04 | p3lim | just let me know what arguments you want me to use |
| 16:17.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 16:17.36 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 16:18.18 | *** join/#wowuidev selckin (n=selckin@unaffiliated/axxo) |
| 16:18.26 | Shirik | gdit |
| 16:18.31 | Shirik | What does ISA stand for |
| 16:18.34 | Shirik | I hate stupid questions like that |
| 16:18.43 | zenzelezz | why? |
| 16:18.51 | amro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISA |
| 16:18.53 | amro | that's why? |
| 16:19.01 | Shirik | Well why would you put that on a test! |
| 16:19.06 | Shirik | I don't need to remember what it stands for >< |
| 16:19.09 | p3lim | haste: edited the patch file and reuploaded it with diffrent arguments :) |
| 16:19.37 | Shirik | Best part is there's actually two answers to it, and nobody knows what he actually meant |
| 16:19.54 | Shirik | either Industry Standard Architecture or Instruction Set Architecture |
| 16:19.58 | Shirik | We think it was supposed to be the latter |
| 16:20.06 | amro | I was leaning towards Instituto Superior de Arte |
| 16:21.21 | p3lim | also, while I have you here |
| 16:21.30 | p3lim | is there a way to get a specific units' object? |
| 16:21.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:21.50 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:21.54 | Slakah | ouf.units table? |
| 16:21.56 | p3lim | say I have two powerbars, one on pet frame and one on player, could I call just the pet one from a plugin? |
| 16:22.35 | Slakah | bah I mean oUF.units |
| 16:22.36 | p3lim | oUF.units.pet.Experience got the player one |
| 16:22.50 | p3lim | actually, it didnt work at all |
| 16:23.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:23.18 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:24.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:24.58 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:25.54 | Slakah | Maybe try <my layout name>-oUF.units ? |
| 16:26.44 | haste | p3lim: it didn't matter at all, just that -u is much more readable |
| 16:27.09 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-141-134-74.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:27.13 | p3lim | yea noticed |
| 16:27.54 | Cairenn|afk | heh, got a quiz for you guys: |
| 16:27.56 | Cairenn|afk | "These rank as one of the safest forms of transportation, with only one fatality every 100 million miles traveled. What are they?" |
| 16:28.11 | durcyn | i dunno, feet? |
| 16:28.19 | Cairenn|afk | nope |
| 16:28.22 | Gnarfoz | Aircraft |
| 16:28.30 | Cairenn|afk | no |
| 16:28.31 | Shirik | train |
| 16:28.32 | Gnarfoz | Boats |
| 16:28.35 | Cairenn|afk | no |
| 16:28.37 | Slakah | Travelling through time |
| 16:28.37 | Gnarfoz | certainly not cars |
| 16:28.42 | Cairenn|afk | nope nope |
| 16:28.44 | Cide | quantum entanglement |
| 16:28.46 | Gnarfoz | rickshaws |
| 16:28.50 | Cairenn|afk | nope nope |
| 16:28.51 | zenzelezz | thoughts |
| 16:28.53 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 16:28.55 | ScytheBlade1 | I cheat but lol |
| 16:28.56 | Slakah | Internet |
| 16:28.57 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 16:29.02 | Cide | I think my way won |
| 16:29.02 | ScytheBlade1 | I kinda like the answer |
| 16:29.03 | durcyn | the space shuttle. |
| 16:29.14 | Cairenn|afk | ScytheBlade1: hehehe |
| 16:29.16 | Cairenn|afk | nope |
| 16:29.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Cairenn|afk: quite literally |
| 16:29.45 | Gnarfoz | 100 million miles in a space shuttle? :D I don't think all space shuttles combined have travelled that distance, yet :D |
| 16:29.46 | Slakah | Standing still? |
| 16:29.49 | Shirik | standing still |
| 16:29.50 | Shirik | yeah |
| 16:29.52 | ScytheBlade1 | nope |
| 16:29.54 | Cairenn|afk | nope |
| 16:29.55 | Shirik | the earth moves! |
| 16:29.59 | Gnarfoz | standing still doesn't give you miles of travel, does it |
| 16:30.03 | Slakah | Thats what I was thinking |
| 16:30.09 | Shirik | yes it does |
| 16:30.09 | Shirik | you go around |
| 16:30.10 | Slakah | relative to the sun it does |
| 16:30.20 | Cide | relative to the universe's origo |
| 16:30.26 | Gnarfoz | also, it doesn't work because loads of people die every second. |
| 16:30.33 | Cairenn|afk | you guys are going to giggle when you hear the answer |
| 16:30.38 | ScytheBlade1 | I also see why Cairenn|afk asked this question too |
| 16:30.39 | Cide | LOVE!!! |
| 16:30.39 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah |
| 16:30.41 | Cide | .. |
| 16:30.56 | Cairenn|afk | ScytheBlade1: do you? |
| 16:30.57 | Gnarfoz | Sperms |
| 16:31.04 | Cairenn|afk | Gnarfoz: ROFL |
| 16:31.04 | Cairenn|afk | no |
| 16:31.22 | Cide | wonder how many fatalities sperms have caused (directly, not indirectly :P) |
| 16:31.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Cairenn|afk: so you can laugh at the entire channel not getting the anser! |
| 16:31.27 | ScytheBlade1 | *answer |
| 16:31.30 | Shirik | transmission of WoW packets |
| 16:31.30 | Cairenn|afk | ScytheBlade1: ah |
| 16:31.38 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: You didn't get the answer either!! |
| 16:31.43 | Shirik | You are below the rest of us because you cheated |
| 16:31.44 | Cide | cars. |
| 16:31.45 | Gnarfoz | hey, if you count each sperm's travel distance together and see the one that wins the race as the fatality... |
| 16:31.50 | Cairenn|afk | Cide: nope |
| 16:31.58 | Cide | yes. |
| 16:32.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: that's also why I'm not answering, and instead why I'm laughing at the rest of you |
| 16:32.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: sounds like a win from my end |
| 16:32.10 | Gnarfoz | Cars are like, seriously not even close to that safe ^^ |
| 16:32.11 | Shirik | I laugh at you for being meanie |
| 16:32.29 | ScytheBlade1 | If that was out of the norm maybe :P |
| 16:32.53 | Shirik | I like my internet packet answer |
| 16:33.05 | Shirik | zeppelin? |
| 16:33.18 | Shirik | That really depends on how far apart the two continents are |
| 16:33.18 | Slakah | people fall of them all the time |
| 16:33.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Cairenn|afk: I vote you just give them their answer |
| 16:33.23 | amro | I was thinking hot air balloon |
| 16:33.24 | Lunessa | I am a meanie,but I can't imagine the answer to the riddle. Mostly because I'm not trying. |
| 16:33.42 | amro | shoes? |
| 16:34.12 | Gnarfoz | that's "feet" and was already discarded :( |
| 16:34.22 | Cairenn|afk | keep trying guys, a different channel got it |
| 16:34.25 | Shirik | how are shoes a form of transportation |
| 16:34.29 | amro | you never know with these questions |
| 16:34.30 | Shirik | or feet for that matter |
| 16:34.32 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: slowwww |
| 16:34.35 | Shirik | it's called walking |
| 16:34.44 | amro | question says "These" |
| 16:34.49 | Gnarfoz | and still you see people answering "cars" and "aircraft" |
| 16:34.49 | Gnarfoz | duh |
| 16:34.59 | Gnarfoz | should those also answer "flying" and "driving" |
| 16:34.59 | Shirik | I didn't answer any of that |
| 16:35.05 | Shirik | (12:27:52) (+Shirik) flights |
| 16:35.05 | Shirik | (12:28:00) (@Cairenn|afk) nope |
| 16:35.05 | Shirik | (12:28:07) (+Shirik) walking? |
| 16:35.05 | Shirik | (12:28:12) (@Cairenn|afk) nope |
| 16:35.24 | zenzelezz | escalators? |
| 16:35.29 | Cairenn|afk | close |
| 16:35.30 | Gnarfoz | lifts |
| 16:35.35 | Cairenn|afk | ding! |
| 16:35.38 | Shirik | it can't be elevators |
| 16:35.38 | Cairenn|afk | elevators |
| 16:35.40 | Shirik | that's very wrong |
| 16:35.44 | zenzelezz | I choose to take credit for that answer |
| 16:35.46 | Gnarfoz | heh |
| 16:35.46 | Cairenn|afk | why is it wrong? |
| 16:35.51 | Shirik | How many times people've fallen off TB elevator |
| 16:35.56 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 16:35.56 | Cairenn|afk | lol |
| 16:35.57 | Shirik | or shat |
| 16:36.02 | amro | exactly |
| 16:36.06 | zenzelezz | Shirik: that's the fall killing you, not the mode of transportation |
| 16:36.09 | Gnarfoz | yeah, virtual lifts ftw |
| 16:36.16 | Shirik | if the elevator didn't start going without you... |
| 16:36.20 | amro | zenzelezz: I guess in car accidents the collision kills you too? |
| 16:36.24 | Shirik | That's like saying the gun didn't kill you, the bullet did |
| 16:36.28 | Lopeppeppy | It's not even the fall, it's the sudden stop at the end. :P |
| 16:37.04 | cogwheel | Shirik: i think it's more like russian roulette. if you don't want to die then you better make damned sure it just came up to the top |
| 16:37.05 | zenzelezz | amro: if you died from falling out of the car, it'd be the fall. While you're inside, it's the car |
| 16:37.08 | Shirik | I mean, hell, I could shoot you and then my defense would be "The bullet wasn't moving at all. He ran into the bullet very very fast" |
| 16:37.29 | cogwheel | i say it's user error, not the fault of the transport |
| 16:37.31 | amro | zenzelezz: depends what causes the fall |
| 16:37.58 | zenzelezz | matter of opinion; our obviously differ |
| 16:39.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@3908ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 16:41.31 | Cairenn|afk | TecnoBrat: yes you do :p |
| 16:42.01 | Shirik | ? |
| 16:42.07 | TecnoBrat | Cairenn|afk, do what!? |
| 16:42.15 | Cairenn|afk | know where the lounge is |
| 16:42.20 | Cairenn|afk | silly |
| 16:42.21 | TecnoBrat | oh .... |
| 16:42.24 | Cairenn|afk | lol |
| 16:42.24 | TecnoBrat | THIS lounge |
| 16:42.25 | TecnoBrat | rofl |
| 16:42.32 | TecnoBrat | I thought you meant like a forum |
| 16:42.34 | TecnoBrat | hahaha |
| 16:42.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow1722 (n=Miranda@c-e28ae255.311-8-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 16:42.37 | p3lim | whats the diffrence between *.patch and *.diff ? |
| 16:43.04 | Shirik | one is 4 letter extension one is 5 letter |
| 16:43.18 | TecnoBrat | one has fs, the other doesn't |
| 16:43.24 | p3lim | diff is superior then, because its easier to write |
| 16:43.45 | TecnoBrat | "write"? |
| 16:43.48 | Gnarfoz | type. |
| 16:43.53 | TecnoBrat | type? |
| 16:43.56 | Gnarfoz | typing |
| 16:44.03 | Gnarfoz | like, with your fingers, and a keyboard |
| 16:44.08 | p3lim | :p |
| 16:44.09 | TecnoBrat | thats what the diff command in svn is for! |
| 16:44.24 | Gnarfoz | "diff" is a program of it's own, btw |
| 16:44.25 | Gnarfoz | ~~ |
| 16:44.25 | purl | Every moment in which I'm called upon is torture. |
| 16:44.25 | p3lim | the words diff |
| 16:44.30 | TecnoBrat | that too ... |
| 16:44.33 | p3lim | ~diff |
| 16:44.34 | purl | You can use 'diff' and 'patch' to patch binary files! Just pass the -a option to diff, and _BE SURE_ to pipe the output to a file, otherwise you're going to see a lot of noise... |
| 16:44.38 | Shirik | patch is a program of its own, too, Gnarfoz :) |
| 16:44.55 | p3lim | using GnuWin32's diff plugin |
| 16:44.55 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: never contested that, but as usual, you skim read too much :p |
| 16:44.56 | Industrial | p3lim: insert a linux cd, not ubuntu or red hat or suse and reformat the whole driver, figure it out and come back. |
| 16:45.13 | Shirik | all you said was that diff is a program of its own |
| 16:45.17 | TecnoBrat | I just use svn's diff to make patches :P |
| 16:45.22 | p3lim | Industrial: I have suse on my laptop :) |
| 16:45.31 | p3lim | v9 or something |
| 16:45.34 | Industrial | type in "man diff" in a terminal. |
| 16:45.37 | Gnarfoz | yes, and tecnobrat said "svn's diff command" which is nothing more than a call to diff |
| 16:45.46 | TecnoBrat | indeed. |
| 16:45.57 | p3lim | aint got it here |
| 16:46.01 | Shirik | not necessarily |
| 16:46.26 | p3lim | its at my vacation cabin |
| 16:46.30 | Shirik | it is an external call, yes. It doesn't have to be to diff |
| 16:46.32 | p3lim | or whatever its called |
| 16:46.39 | amro | p3lim: http://www.ss64.com/bash/diff.html |
| 16:46.54 | Shirik | tortoise is notorious for using TortoiseMerge instead |
| 16:46.55 | p3lim | ooh nice |
| 16:47.06 | p3lim | thanks for that one amro, now I can see what all the arguments stands for |
| 16:47.11 | Shirik | and you can configure the svn command line client to do the same |
| 16:47.14 | Gnarfoz | (you don't get it at all, but nevermind) |
| 16:47.24 | Atriace | Wow... I just discovered # |
| 16:47.26 | Shirik | You're saying if you type "svn diff" it calls diff |
| 16:47.27 | Atriace | :D |
| 16:47.28 | Shirik | I'm saying it doesn't have to |
| 16:47.29 | p3lim | btw what nix os do you guys suggest? |
| 16:47.38 | Shirik | QNX |
| 16:47.46 | amro | depends how much trouble you're willing to go through |
| 16:47.52 | amro | ~whalenuke Shirik |
| 16:47.53 | purl | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around Shirik with his mind powers. |
| 16:47.53 | p3lim | a bit, but not too much :p |
| 16:47.58 | Shirik | what :( |
| 16:48.04 | p3lim | going through learning gnu atm |
| 16:48.17 | p3lim | gonna learn more about terminals later |
| 16:48.32 | amro | for starters you'll want ubuntu. not the best but certainly the easiest to start with |
| 16:48.39 | Gnarfoz | I'm saying that TB's msg sounded like it weren't its own program, or at least, that svn diff was not a call to 'diff' (or something else you configured) |
| 16:48.43 | p3lim | ive had suse for a year now |
| 16:48.43 | Shirik | I learned on SuSE which is pretty easy as well |
| 16:48.49 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron_ (n=soufron@ATuileries-152-1-2-161.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:48.50 | Gnarfoz | actually, I *was* saying that, I'm past it now xD |
| 16:48.53 | p3lim | gotten quite used to it |
| 16:48.53 | p3lim | brb |
| 16:49.16 | Shirik | next I went to Ubuntu then Fedora then RHEL then Gentoo |
| 16:49.30 | Shirik | I particularly like Gentoo |
| 16:49.52 | Shirik | it isn't particularly "easy" though |
| 16:50.10 | amro | I'd rank gentoo low on ease of use |
| 16:50.12 | amro | but it's neat |
| 16:50.21 | Shirik | and it has pretty colors |
| 16:50.33 | amro | <3 the colors |
| 16:51.27 | amro | I run some apps via ssh to my gentoo server |
| 16:52.03 | Shirik | Note the "danger will robinson" whenever you go to root: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/db683797916d72c4813721b265afd267.jpg |
| 16:52.16 | Shirik | turns to red |
| 16:54.59 | amro | crash.c crash.lua |
| 16:55.26 | Shirik | haha |
| 16:55.26 | Shirik | yes |
| 16:55.55 | amro | pastey! |
| 16:55.56 | Shirik | That's what happens when I let my curiosity get the best of me |
| 16:55.58 | amro | I'm curios |
| 16:55.59 | Shirik | um, no |
| 16:56.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 16:56.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Neuro_Medivh (n=neuro@pool-96-226-8-74.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:56.21 | Shirik | let me paste part of the top comment in crash.c |
| 16:56.23 | Shirik | * Linux vmsplice Local Root Exploit |
| 16:56.38 | amro | oh =) |
| 16:56.49 | Shirik | this was me initially testing my security, and then I found out that it actually takes down sshd when I run it |
| 16:56.58 | Shirik | crash.lua is a little better |
| 16:57.20 | Dashkal | Togole just made my morning |
| 16:57.24 | Dashkal | Tigole* |
| 16:57.27 | Lopeppeppy | Tigole? |
| 16:57.28 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 16:57.45 | Dashkal | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532281614&sid=1&pageNo=2#22 (Shift in PvP focus over time) |
| 16:58.29 | Shirik | ok I have to run |
| 16:58.33 | Shirik | I'll be back later |
| 16:58.53 | Slakah | That makes me happy |
| 16:59.36 | Dashkal | Mind you, Arena Points on pretty much all of the PvP gear is more than a little counter to that... |
| 17:00.13 | cbreak | xp gain through pvp sounds interesting |
| 17:00.57 | Dashkal | It does. Goodbye twinking :p |
| 17:03.17 | Neuro_Medivh | actually, it'll change twinking |
| 17:03.36 | Neuro_Medivh | from focusing on standing still, to the bind-on-account items |
| 17:04.26 | cbreak | those that gain their next step right after you join a new bracket? :) |
| 17:07.55 | molgar | Anyone know if its possible to make a dynamic :SetPoint() , so first time i hit enter it does :SetPoint("TOPLEFT",0,0) next time i press enter, :SetPoint("TOPLEFT",0,-16) and so on ? |
| 17:08.02 | jaxdahl2 | if i alt+f4 out of wow, do saved variables get saved? |
| 17:08.17 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 17:08.26 | molgar | k:S |
| 17:08.57 | jaxdahl2 | what about when i zone, then alt+f4? |
| 17:08.57 | AnduinLothar | dynamic set point... just make a function witha counter |
| 17:09.24 | Dashkal | AnduinLothar: you sure? Cause recount was remembering progress when I hit alt-f4 there when we tried to fix my permadead last night |
| 17:09.24 | AnduinLothar | zoning doesn't save variables |
| 17:09.39 | molgar | okey, ill try |
| 17:10.12 | AnduinLothar | well, unless they changed it to save more often in LK without telling anyone |
| 17:10.21 | AnduinLothar | but i doubt it |
| 17:10.24 | Dashkal | hmm, I'll poke at that tonight then |
| 17:10.43 | Dashkal | I was under the impression that alt-f4 was the equivilent of "Exit Now" on the quit timer |
| 17:10.44 | jaxdahl2 | trying to figure out why my wowhead loot file doesn't have some data |
| 17:11.03 | AnduinLothar | hmmm |
| 17:11.13 | AnduinLothar | you may be right |
| 17:11.44 | AnduinLothar | meh. test it |
| 17:11.58 | AnduinLothar | i dont know anythign >.< |
| 17:12.00 | Dashkal | Will do, but I won't be able to get at a beta client for a good 8 hours |
| 17:12.41 | AnduinLothar | i thought alt-f4 was a force quit, but you could be right, it might be a normal quit |
| 17:13.19 | Dashkal | Well, it's definitely a "quit now" but it doesn't crash, so the engine has time to shut down if it wants to. |
| 17:13.59 | alestane | Alt-F4 tells the window to close, but variables might get saved, not sure. It's a graceful close on the client side. |
| 17:14.46 | Shirik|AFK | wow |
| 17:14.50 | Shirik|AFK | print spooler crashed |
| 17:14.50 | Shirik|AFK | wtf |
| 17:14.57 | ZorbaBeta | I haven't found any way to quit WoW besides force-quit that doesn't save variables |
| 17:15.14 | ZorbaBeta | I'm quite sure that closing the window, "Exit Now", and alt-f4 all save variables. |
| 17:15.33 | ZorbaBeta | (you can tell when you have the ridiculous amount of data to save that I currently do, since it takes five seconds to exit :P) |
| 17:16.32 | cogwheel | alt-f4 does everything "exit now" would do |
| 17:16.39 | alestane | Exit Now definitely saves vars. |
| 17:16.53 | alestane | Alt F4 and clicking the close button on the window are going to be the same. |
| 17:17.01 | cogwheel | yep |
| 17:17.32 | alestane | Although, I've noticed that if you force-quit the client, it skips certain steps like dropping you out of your group. |
| 17:17.55 | Dashkal | That's what I use alt-f4 for. Logout without dropping group |
| 17:18.14 | cogwheel | i know end process does that. i didn't think alt-f4 would |
| 17:18.21 | AnduinLothar | you dotn drop group with exit now, either |
| 17:18.21 | Lopeppeppy | it also does not always save changes to your UI, like bars being moved, etc. |
| 17:18.42 | jaxdahl2 | when are they going to fix UI scale resetting with every patch? |
| 17:19.09 | cogwheel | Lopeppeppy: i'm not so sure about that. saving those ui settings should be part of the same process that saves variables |
| 17:19.16 | Nechckn | In WotLK beta, is arcane brilliance, and the other "2" tomes, available from the trainer- like how all of the level "1"s from the old dungeons were zapped with TBC? |
| 17:19.23 | cogwheel | jaxdahl2: huh? I've never had that problem |
| 17:19.43 | jaxdahl2 | cogwheel, do you use username or blizz account to log in? |
| 17:20.17 | cogwheel | oh you're talking about beta... |
| 17:21.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 17:21.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Quaiche|sleep (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 17:26.44 | Shirik|AFK | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
| 17:26.56 | Shirik|AFK | purl is being meanie :( |
| 17:27.04 | Shirik|AFK | purl, hi |
| 17:27.04 | purl | hello, shirik|afk |
| 17:27.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Jelly-School (i=401cfcd7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-781c53031d9a710a) |
| 17:27.08 | cogwheel | purl u suk |
| 17:27.15 | *** join/#wowuidev gammah2 (n=hehee@89.0.58.114.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 17:27.19 | Jelly-School | ~hug Peppy |
| 17:27.20 | purl | ACTION sneaks up on Peppy and suddenly hugs Peppy tightly |
| 17:27.48 | Lopeppeppy | Merph, careful of the ribs, I have a nasty cold! |
| 17:28.24 | Jelly-School | Aww. |
| 17:28.28 | Jelly-School | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:28.35 | Shirik|AFK | :( |
| 17:28.51 | Jelly-School | ~hug Shirik |
| 17:28.52 | purl | ACTION hugs Shirik |
| 17:29.11 | Shirik|AFK | better now than at blizzcon |
| 17:29.21 | Lopeppeppy | If you have a pillow Shirik, feel free to toss it my way. |
| 17:29.44 | Jelly-School | Both of you make me sad. |
| 17:31.05 | Lopeppeppy | I'm not violent when I'm asleeping, hello. I'm asleeping. |
| 17:31.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@michaelg20.goshen.edu) |
| 17:31.22 | Shirik|AFK | when you wake up... |
| 17:31.35 | Jelly-School | Tired Peppy isa violent Peppy? |
| 17:31.36 | kd3 | meh, lots of violence happens when asleep |
| 17:31.38 | Shirik|AFK | go back to sleep :) |
| 17:31.47 | Jelly-School | s/isa/is a/ |
| 17:32.00 | kd3 | s/if/of/ |
| 17:32.33 | Lopeppeppy | I wake up decently, Shirik. Sometimes cranky and groggy, but not all violent-like. |
| 17:32.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Beladona (n=Beladona@24.129.136.26) |
| 17:32.55 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 17:33.07 | *** join/#wowuidev duaiwe (n=jonathan@216-160-121-210.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:33.08 | Jelly-School | So. Who all is going to Blizzcon? |
| 17:33.13 | kd3 | <-- |
| 17:33.22 | kd3 | and wtf... fark: [Obvious] Atlanta firefighters test new $1 million rescue vehicle by flipping it |
| 17:33.29 | Jelly-School | H8U |
| 17:33.43 | Shirik|AFK | <-- |
| 17:33.55 | Jelly-School | H8U |
| 17:33.58 | Shirik|AFK | :( |
| 17:34.20 | Jelly-School | I still luff Peppy though |
| 17:35.13 | Lopeppeppy | < -- |
| 17:35.31 | Lopeppeppy | Even if I am going to the con? |
| 17:35.40 | Jelly-School | Yais. |
| 17:35.52 | Jelly-School | But you're treading on thin ice. :P |
| 17:36.05 | Lopeppeppy | Used to that, I am. |
| 17:40.15 | kd3 | mm... nearly 14:00 and it's only 68f |
| 17:40.16 | kd3 | <3 |
| 17:41.12 | Jelly-School | http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=76137&searchType=WEATHER 81 :( |
| 17:45.18 | Yssaril | when PLAYER_REGEN_DISABLED fires i am not yet under combat lockdown but after that i will be right? |
| 17:45.55 | nevcairiel | yea |
| 17:46.00 | nevcairiel | during the event you can still do stuff |
| 17:47.27 | Yssaril | k cool |
| 17:52.33 | *** join/#wowuidev JerekDain (n=JerekDai@c-66-41-178-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 18:05.02 | *** part/#wowuidev ShaneSveller (i=40c71da2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8c3eaeb1acf1abe8) |
| 18:05.55 | *** join/#wowuidev ShaneSveller (i=40c71da2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8c3eaeb1acf1abe8) |
| 18:06.14 | Quaiche|work | Insane... I didn't know this "sport" existed... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqrmLX2RKzU |
| 18:07.17 | Adys | everything exists on the internet |
| 18:08.23 | Lopeppeppy | Law 34. |
| 18:13.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Josh_Borke (n=jk275@WoWUIDev/WoWInterface/LegoBlock/joshborke) |
| 18:13.49 | ShaneSveller | if i were looking for a lib to monitor incoming heals within my oUF layout, is HealComm a popular one? |
| 18:14.27 | Neuro_Medivh | a lib, or a mod? |
| 18:14.41 | nevcairiel | LibHealComm-3.0 is used by Grid, sRaidFrames, agUF, and alot other mods |
| 18:14.50 | Hjalte | ShaneSveller: There are two addons for oUF for that, oUF_IncomingHeals and oUF_HealComm (or something similar), I use the first one. |
| 18:15.01 | Hjalte | They both use HealComm 3.0 I believe. |
| 18:15.22 | Sixen | The temporary Blizz Account were for Beta, not Alpha, right? |
| 18:15.28 | Adys | not alpha |
| 18:16.56 | Josh_Borke | even though it's a terribly bloated library! |
| 18:18.17 | zenzelezz | it seems wrong somehow that "incest" and "nicest" are just a typo apart |
| 18:18.33 | kd3 | can't spell slaughter without laughter |
| 18:19.05 | Cide | slawter. |
| 18:20.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:20.53 | Neuro_Medivh | kd3: a fact that the Joker took full advantage of |
| 18:21.29 | cogwheel | +"correctly" |
| 18:21.39 | ShaneSveller | Hjalte: do you have any particular reason for picking one over the other? |
| 18:21.42 | cogwheel | ~poke Cide |
| 18:21.42 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Cide, pokes Cide repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 18:21.48 | Cide | cogwheel: boo. |
| 18:21.55 | ShaneSveller | Neuro_Medivh: I wanted a lib specifically, yeah |
| 18:22.12 | Neuro_Medivh | ShaneSveller: Ok, I have no experience with oUF which is why I asked |
| 18:22.24 | Hjalte | ShaneSveller: None at all. I've tried to enquire the differences, but no-one seems to know. They both seem to do the exact same, and IncomingHeals was the first one I tried. |
| 18:23.57 | ShaneSveller | Hjalte: does IH include a bar extending beyond the health bar to show estimated overheal? i suspect it's doable, regardless |
| 18:24.17 | ShaneSveller | Hjalte: nm, wowint page answers that |
| 18:24.22 | Hjalte | ShaneSveller: I believe they both do, and at least IH is compatible with -all- layouts I've tried. |
| 18:24.42 | ShaneSveller | Hjalte: I'm working on my own layout, so I'll *make* it work hehe |
| 18:25.41 | *** join/#wowuidev |pez| (n=user@213-187-182-126.dd.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:26.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (i=Saiek@c-69-245-192-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 18:26.57 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-141-134-74.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:27.20 | *** join/#wowuidev ShaneSveller (n=mellerfa@64-199-29-162.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 18:27.41 | Esine | is there a version of cartographer or metamap that works with 3.0.2? |
| 18:28.02 | ShaneSveller | Not sure about Cart but Mapster works just fine |
| 18:28.06 | Esine | oh ok |
| 18:28.20 | ShaneSveller | as does GatherMate, the ace3 version of Cart_Mining/Herb/etc. |
| 18:28.24 | Hjalte | ShaneSveller: You focusing on something special with your layout? A slick look, good for healing etc? |
| 18:28.37 | Esine | well I'd just like to see northerend maps on ptr |
| 18:28.41 | ShaneSveller | Hjalte: the latter, I play a feral/resto druid as does a good friend |
| 18:28.41 | Esine | as a lvl 1 ;) |
| 18:28.49 | Lunessa | Cartographer 3 works with 3.x wow |
| 18:28.58 | Esine | Lunessa, I just tried and it didnt seem to :( |
| 18:29.10 | Esine | my map hotkeys didnt do anything |
| 18:29.17 | Lunessa | *shrug* I ran it in alpha/early beta to collect data for ck |
| 18:29.21 | Esine | also the addon was out of date so I needed to check that box |
| 18:30.08 | ShaneSveller | Hjalte: I'm redoing my UI from scratch for 3.0 and part of that involved dropping pitbull for oUF, which I'm greatly enjoying thus far |
| 18:30.20 | ShaneSveller | Hjalte: and a custom-tailored oUF layout sounds like fun |
| 18:31.11 | kneeki | Is there a SPELLBOOK_CHANGED event that I'm not seeing? |
| 18:31.45 | alestane | kneeki: something close, if you'll give me a moment to find it. |
| 18:32.09 | kneeki | alestane: I remember something like it existing, but I cannot seem to find it at all currently |
| 18:32.41 | kneeki | "LEARNED_SPELL_IN_TAB" |
| 18:32.42 | kneeki | bam |
| 18:32.45 | kneeki | =) |
| 18:33.24 | alestane | I use SPELLS_CHANGED, if that works for you, great. |
| 18:34.08 | kneeki | SPELLS_CHANGED fires a bit more often than I would like I think |
| 18:35.40 | alestane | Actually, LEARNED_SPELL_IN_TAB might be closer to what I want. |
| 18:35.46 | kneeki | lol |
| 18:35.49 | kneeki | =) |
| 18:36.13 | alestane | Although I don't think it fires on login, but then, so many other events do. |
| 18:36.22 | kneeki | Mhmm |
| 18:40.48 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 18:40.48 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 18:42.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-76-115-111-253.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:46.17 | *** join/#wowuidev lz (n=ImO@193.80.12.244) |
| 18:46.20 | *** join/#wowuidev uM4wL0lVxl (n=zCd@193.220.30.1) |
| 18:46.34 | kd3 | hm |
| 18:46.35 | *** join/#wowuidev H5KeqFGjB (n=yQrm@196.25.9.126) |
| 18:46.39 | *** join/#wowuidev ICHtrwa6FzLx (n=fYZ8PDFW@200.153.93.186) |
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| 18:46.44 | *** join/#wowuidev cqylNh4 (n=lJ538OwL@200.31.194.242) |
| 18:46.44 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+rRf #shiibot] by Shiibot |
| 18:46.44 | *** join/#wowuidev iQGL8 (n=BZZlP@200.109.102.74) |
| 18:46.50 | End | Shiibot! |
| 18:46.54 | End | WHERE ARE YOU! |
| 18:46.59 | End | oh |
| 18:47.00 | morkii | he fixed it |
| 18:47.01 | End | wait, there he is |
| 18:47.02 | Cide | he already locked it nub |
| 18:47.10 | Cairenn | sigh, you'd think this guy would learn |
| 18:47.10 | End | :P |
| 18:47.33 | End | Shiibot's +r got lost in the spam to me :P |
| 18:47.39 | nevcairiel | just dont pay attention, not like it interrupted any discussion today |
| 18:47.57 | End | discussion? |
| 18:48.01 | Cide | I find it a humorous addition to the channel's activity |
| 18:48.08 | jaxdahl2 | or be like me, hide mode changes |
| 18:48.16 | Cide | how does that help at all? |
| 18:48.24 | nevcairiel | hide join/parts :P |
| 18:48.30 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ |
| 18:48.38 | alestane | Actually, it does look like SPELLS_CHANGED is the one I want at login...but does LEARNED_SPELL_IN_TAB fire if you lose spells due to talent refund, or is there a different event for that? |
| 18:48.46 | nevcairiel | i just noticed, the bots are more evil then befoer, they do nick changes now! |
| 18:48.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Cairenn: honestly, i'd bet its some kind of automated thing, and the guy's probably barely monitoring it :p |
| 18:49.08 | Cairenn | oh, no doubt |
| 18:49.15 | Cide | nah |
| 18:49.15 | Cairenn | I just wish |
| 18:49.19 | Cide | he's monitoring it I'm sure |
| 18:49.21 | nevcairiel | one should write down the times, wonder if its some fixed schedule :) |
| 18:49.26 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: yeah, they used to actually spam t he channel with gibberish, now they just do join/part/nick change spam |
| 18:49.30 | Cide | given that when we've made changes to the bot, he's changed the bots' behavior |
| 18:49.32 | morkii | is cartographer2 going to work for the patch? |
| 18:49.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide: well yeah, but not quickly. |
| 18:50.05 | Cide | in a matter of a day or two... |
| 18:51.19 | morkii | or should I search for a replacement |
| 18:51.57 | Lunessa | oh hey, what was the answer to the riddle? It's scrolled out of my buffer. |
| 18:52.52 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 18:59.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 18:59.07 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 18:59.19 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:01.49 | Cairenn | Lunessa: elevators |
| 19:02.35 | Lopeppeppy | Bah, I was gonna make him never know. :P |
| 19:04.27 | Lunessa | Cairenn: thanks. You're a gem. |
| 19:04.35 | Cairenn | you're welcome |
| 19:06.22 | *** join/#wowuidev elite3vil (i=elite3vi@unaffiliated/elite3vil) |
| 19:06.41 | Lopeppeppy | That means Peppy is da ebil. *grin* |
| 19:07.14 | Lunessa | Naw, it means she is da wicked. Just how I likes 'em. |
| 19:07.41 | Lopeppeppy | I am all of that, ++ |
| 19:07.52 | NightHawkTheSane | wicked, like the witch of the west? |
| 19:08.26 | Lopeppeppy | um, no. With style and grace. |
| 19:12.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@michaelg20.goshen.edu) |
| 19:15.13 | kneeki | InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToFrame() does not work on the PTR nor Beta, what should I be using then? |
| 19:15.35 | NightHawkTheSane | s/Frame/Category/ |
| 19:15.51 | kneeki | Oh |
| 19:15.53 | kneeki | That's all? |
| 19:16.03 | NightHawkTheSane | yes. they changed the function name a build or two ago |
| 19:16.10 | kneeki | Ahh, thanks :) |
| 19:17.42 | kneeki | InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategory()? |
| 19:18.59 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah |
| 19:20.05 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 19:20.05 | purl | ~pong |
| 19:24.04 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.30.131) |
| 19:24.50 | Lunessa | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10638057648&sid=2000&pageNo=4 - post 68. |
| 19:25.31 | kd3 | rofl |
| 19:27.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Wikwocket (n=wikwocke@adsl-68-79-9-193.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 19:28.15 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 19:28.56 | Cairenn | lol |
| 19:29.18 | kd3 | meh, I've got a lot of people I need to buy beer for when I'm out there |
| 19:29.39 | Lunessa | Buy them one for me too. |
| 19:30.13 | Lunessa | If I could have gotten tickets, I would be going,but no point in going to the even to sit in the hotel room and wait for the after-event parties. |
| 19:33.04 | *** part/#wowuidev Netcurse (n=chatzill@adsl-074-239-065-141.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:33.24 | *** join/#wowuidev netcurse (n=chatzill@adsl-074-239-065-141.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:33.45 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 19:34.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Aiiane (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu) |
| 19:35.50 | cogwheel | Lunessa: fyi, when they redesigned the forums, they gave anchors identical to post numbers. you could've just tacked #68 to the end of that url and it would've worked as intended ;) |
| 19:36.14 | alestane | I love that feature. |
| 19:38.38 | foxlit | Hrm, so someone is telling me my C code of dubious nature doesn't work on their PowerPC |
| 19:39.14 | foxlit | Which probably means endianness strikes somewhere, but is there a decent way to test that without finding a PowerPC to test on? |
| 19:39.39 | Dewin | powerPC emulator? |
| 19:39.47 | Dewin | what's the code do? |
| 19:40.24 | foxlit | Reads a file, does some math, calls some system functions |
| 19:40.56 | Dewin | Text file? |
| 19:40.58 | Dewin | Or some binary data? |
| 19:41.29 | NightHawkTheSane | depending on what you needed tested & done, i've got a ppc machine right here, although I'm not going to be really available for another 2ish hours. |
| 19:42.16 | Dewin | because unless you're reading binary data that was created on a different platform, I can't see where any endianness issues would occur (speaking generally that is) |
| 19:44.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem (i=d195b804@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 19:44.44 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 19:44.56 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: also needs Leopard -- http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info9011-BLPLook.html |
| 19:45.54 | Dewin | I think that classifies as binary data ;) |
| 19:46.20 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: this machine is a ppc g5 running 10.5.5 :P |
| 19:46.56 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: that's exactly what someone is saying doesn't work. I'm relatively satisfied that it doesn't -- but heck, if you can check, I'd be happier :) |
| 19:47.11 | Sixen | Anyone remember the Alpha? |
| 19:47.21 | Sixen | We had to use normal WoW accounts, correct? the beta introduced the blizz accounts? |
| 19:47.22 | foxlit | Fixing it would probably pose a problem. |
| 19:47.29 | Dewin | PPC chips are big-endian FWIW |
| 19:47.35 | Beladona | nice foxlit. you dont happen to know of something similar for windows or linux do you? |
| 19:48.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (n=Dune@208-104-142-238.rhhe1.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 19:48.28 | Dewin | foxlit: It's fairly easy to detect endianness, or you could just use htons()/htonl() |
| 19:49.06 | foxlit | Beladona: No, I couldn't find any consistent API documentation for those platforms. |
| 19:49.21 | foxlit | Dewin: it's more a question of determining where and what messes up :) |
| 19:49.27 | Dewin | Ah |
| 19:50.07 | cogwheel | not that petitions really ever solve anything, but... http://www.nowallstreetbailout.com/ |
| 19:50.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah1 (n=Slakah@5acd4394.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:50.42 | Dewin | foxlit: What's the native byte ordering of suff in the BLP file? |
| 19:50.44 | foxlit | It's unfortunate that the majority of signatures have no idea what they're signing. |
| 19:51.16 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: yeah, definitely not working |
| 19:51.23 | zenzelezz | foxlit: the same could be said about elections :-/ |
| 19:51.29 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 19:51.43 | cogwheel | "get people to vote" movements piss me off |
| 19:51.51 | Beladona | I think there are better ways to fix economic issues than a bailout right now |
| 19:51.55 | cogwheel | I don't want people who are indifferent to choose my government |
| 19:52.11 | Sixen | Cog, do you remember? |
| 19:52.59 | cogwheel | Sixen: yeah, that sounds right |
| 19:53.05 | Sixen | Mmmm, OK. |
| 19:53.25 | foxlit | zenzelezz: true; though perhaps to a lesser extent - economics are a more difficult area to form a clear opinion on than a couple of candidates' publicized positions. |
| 19:53.34 | bleeter | cogwheel: but, if less than 50% of the eligible population don't vote, they *are* choosing your government anyways :P |
| 19:53.35 | alestane | Is there a CSS property that corresponds to the noshade attribute on horizontal rules? |
| 19:53.47 | bleeter | er s/less/more/ |
| 19:53.58 | bleeter | on the subject of more... MOAR COFFEE |
| 19:54.04 | zenzelezz | foxlit: aye, I won't deny that :) |
| 19:54.04 | foxlit | alestane: try color: ? |
| 19:54.27 | Dewin | alestane: http://www.punkchip.com/2007/02/css-deprecated-attributes-2/ |
| 19:54.27 | alestane | I'm talking about the inset look. |
| 19:54.58 | zenzelezz | alestane: you mean you want some sort of border (or line) to look inset? |
| 19:55.01 | foxlit | alestane: border: 0 |
| 19:55.09 | Lunessa | cogwheel: thanks. I tried adding &postNo68 but that didn't work. :P |
| 19:55.18 | kd3 | #68 |
| 19:55.19 | alestane | Well, I'm trying to manipulate the look of an HR in the browser. |
| 19:55.23 | foxlit | The shading is a border |
| 19:55.45 | cogwheel | i think it's browser-specific... i'm not sure the look of the HR itself is defined by any particular standard |
| 19:55.51 | alestane | Okay, height and the border properties look like the key. thx. |
| 19:57.24 | zenzelezz | http://webdesign.about.com/od/beginningcss/a/style_hr_tag.htm has some tips it seems |
| 19:58.21 | NightHawkTheSane | http://notalwaysright.com/welcome-to-retail-part-3-2/1259 hahaha |
| 19:58.30 | wereHamster | god I hate installing windows. 'Setup will complete in approximately: 32 minutes', yeah right, more like two hours (until first login, not even talking about installing the application I need to run) |
| 19:59.20 | zenzelezz | installing XP goes pretty quickly for me usually; but as you say, post-install is what takes time |
| 19:59.47 | Beladona | at least wow is easy to install. That is if you keep it on a seaprate drive |
| 20:00.00 | zenzelezz | KISS FTW |
| 20:00.11 | wereHamster | it has never been 'quick' for me. It never completed in the 32 minutes it advertizes |
| 20:01.12 | *** join/#wowuidev ShaneSveller (n=mellerfa@64-199-29-162.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 20:01.29 | wereHamster | I'm wondering how long the minutes in Redmond are |
| 20:01.56 | Dewin | Well first, they have to add 60 seconds, to at least pretend to stay with specs. |
| 20:02.18 | zenzelezz | oh come on, it's not like their installer can (or at least should) perform deep benchmarks on your hardware, your reaction time, etc. just to get a really accurate estimate |
| 20:02.21 | Dewin | Then they decide that "Hey, nobody has enough time anymore, let's add some as a "feature" |
| 20:02.26 | Dewin | so they add, oh, 20 or so. |
| 20:02.42 | kd3 | sigh. another down day |
| 20:02.46 | kd3 | 350 points. blah |
| 20:03.17 | Dewin | and then there's 8 layers of security patches, so 2s or so there |
| 20:03.58 | wereHamster | zenzelezz: XP has been released when? 2001? I don't think my laptop(!) is slower then the fastest computer available at that time |
| 20:04.07 | cogwheel | I sure am glad we got evicted when we did (not our fault--place we were renting was being foreclosed). We took all our money out of the stock market and bought a house on the cheap... |
| 20:04.31 | bleeter | cogwheel: gatecrasher :P |
| 20:04.44 | bleeter | bah, bad timing wrt your posts in here |
| 20:08.06 | Lunessa | cogwheel: Bully for you! Home ownership in Ca is like striking oil. :P |
| 20:09.21 | cogwheel | Lunessa: i feel bad for my sister-in-law and her hubby who moved to texas late last year specifically 'cause they couldn't afford a house around here :( |
| 20:09.58 | *** part/#wowuidev Wikwocket (n=wikwocke@adsl-68-79-9-193.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 20:09.59 | Lunessa | cogwheel: When I moved to TX in 2000 it was specifically 'cause houses and taxes were cheaper here than in VA. |
| 20:13.40 | cogwheel | You know what my sis-in-law was doing for work shortly before Ike? Helping with relocation assistance for people moving to texas from Louisiana.... :S |
| 20:14.04 | cogwheel | Pan->Fire imo |
| 20:15.06 | kd3 | huh |
| 20:15.08 | Lunessa | cogwheel: Despite what the media is saying, things aren't THAT bad here. |
| 20:15.14 | kd3 | bunch of QA-named quests |
| 20:15.42 | Shirik | Hey Shiibot worked again :) |
| 20:16.11 | Shirik | Slakah1.... |
| 20:16.13 | Shirik | .... |
| 20:18.31 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@c-68-35-67-18.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 20:21.36 | Lunessa | bsns |
| 20:22.10 | alestane | Got my CSS sorted on, at least on FF3; thanks to people. |
| 20:24.29 | Fisker- | Why so final fantasy 3? |
| 20:25.26 | alestane | Fisker-: I presume you're trolling with that comment? |
| 20:25.33 | Dashkal | hmm, wouldn't that be something. a snes emulator in firefox. Then we could make Fisker- have kittens by talking about FF3 on FF3 |
| 20:26.32 | Lunessa | lol I'm link |
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| 20:34.50 | Beladona | firebug no likey greasemonkey apparently |
| 20:34.55 | Beladona | grr |
| 20:36.45 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-141-134-74.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:37.18 | zenzelezz | Beladona: oh? How so? |
| 20:39.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (i=amarande@24-151-54-237.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 20:40.31 | Beladona | I was experiencing issues with Firefox not opening very quickly on Ubuntu |
| 20:40.51 | Beladona | did some checking for the issue, and apparently there is an issue with FF3, Greasemonkey, and Firebug |
| 20:41.00 | Beladona | disabled them both, and it loads fine now |
| 20:41.47 | haste | oh that sounds nice |
| 20:41.51 | zenzelezz | hm, I haven't noticed that... maybe I should check later |
| 20:41.51 | haste | as I use all of those :p |
| 20:42.15 | cogwheel | Beladona: s/on Ubuntu// |
| 20:42.25 | haste | need to fix a local scriptable proxy soon, so I can dump greasemonkey |
| 20:42.41 | Beladona | annoying thing is, other than Adblock Plus, those are the only other addons I use in FF3 |
| 20:42.53 | Beladona | cogwheel: happens on other platforms as well? |
| 20:43.12 | haste | other linux distros I would guess |
| 20:43.24 | cogwheel | I can start up IE, opera, and chrome in the time it takes for Fx3 to load on xp at work and vista at home |
| 20:43.25 | haste | not that I have any idea what you mean with slow |
| 20:43.38 | cogwheel | (with virtually no addons) |
| 20:43.45 | Beladona | I don't mean slow website browsing |
| 20:43.50 | nevcairiel | I run firebug and greasemonkey and fx3 starts instantly |
| 20:43.51 | cogwheel | neither do i |
| 20:43.56 | Beladona | I mean from the time I click the icon to open a browser window |
| 20:44.00 | Beladona | to the time it actually opens |
| 20:44.00 | cogwheel | exactly |
| 20:44.33 | nevcairiel | I click the icon in my taskbar, and until i can move my mouse to where my bookmarks will appear, it already loaded the google-search start page |
| 20:44.35 | nevcairiel | so shrug |
| 20:44.39 | nevcairiel | your browser is just broken |
| 20:45.03 | Beladona | not sure what would be different |
| 20:45.03 | cogwheel | well, it only acts like that for me after rebooting. once I've loaded it once, it seems to be cached |
| 20:45.09 | Lunessa | Heh. I have time to boot my mac, load FFX3, Adium and Colloquy in the time it take Outlook to open on my XP box. |
| 20:45.39 | nevcairiel | Well i suppose vista boosts that somewhat, fx3 has to be one of the apps that get mem-cached for instant access |
| 20:45.54 | Beladona | well yeah |
| 20:46.00 | Beladona | it loads fine on my vista box |
| 20:46.05 | Beladona | I am talking about linux here |
| 20:46.11 | Beladona | it is very likely a linux specific firefox issue |
| 20:46.33 | nevcairiel | well cogwheel claims it happens on his xp and vista |
| 20:46.49 | Adys | Firefox on linux is sigh |
| 20:46.55 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 20:47.23 | Adys | never actually had it "just run fine" |
| 20:47.24 | cogwheel | but it's no matter... i only use it for the occasional site that consciously refuses to work on opera |
| 20:47.34 | Adys | right now, 2 tabs open, 230mb memory |
| 20:47.46 | cogwheel | memory usage isn't a sign of poor operation imo |
| 20:48.02 | Adys | it's one of the many problems |
| 20:48.04 | nevcairiel | people always claim otherwise! |
| 20:48.06 | haste | Adys: 31 tabs: 357M virtual, 253M RES |
| 20:48.18 | Adys | flash regularly crashes and disappears from all tabs |
| 20:48.18 | nevcairiel | how can you navigate 31 tabs |
| 20:48.19 | nevcairiel | o.O |
| 20:48.25 | Beladona | 230mb isn't indicative of two tabs either |
| 20:48.28 | Adys | firefox randomly disappears and is still running |
| 20:48.29 | Adys | etc etc etc |
| 20:48.36 | Beladona | it could very well be what you have loaded in those tabs |
| 20:48.37 | haste | never had such issues |
| 20:48.41 | nevcairiel | Adys: i had that happen on linux as well, tbh |
| 20:48.42 | haste | nevcairiel: I wonder the same at times |
| 20:48.54 | Adys | yeah, im speaking about linux issues nev |
| 20:48.55 | Beladona | 2 tabs here at 21.2mb |
| 20:49.03 | Adys | google and my guild website bel |
| 20:49.04 | cogwheel | Adys: opera is much snappier than firefox imo and I'm up to 450mb with 7 active tabs and ~30 tabs in the "trash" |
| 20:49.23 | Beladona | 24.1 |
| 20:49.25 | Beladona | =P |
| 20:49.26 | |Yssaril| | whats the best way to catch if i have just mounted ? |
| 20:49.27 | nevcairiel | my firefox uses 30mb without any page open, Beladona cheats |
| 20:49.42 | Adys | yeh Im probably gonna grab opera for the time waiting for a decent version of google chrome on nux |
| 20:49.49 | haste | my firefox has been running for 9 days |
| 20:49.49 | nevcairiel | (i do run like 5 extensions) |
| 20:50.02 | haste | so I guess it has gathered some cache by now :p |
| 20:50.13 | Beladona | Chrome has promise |
| 20:50.20 | haste | not on linux! |
| 20:50.22 | Adys | i run firebug and greasemonkey, but gm is disabled atm |
| 20:50.22 | Beladona | but not enough to make me use it yet |
| 20:50.31 | haste | midori has promise on linux however |
| 20:50.42 | nevcairiel | why do people not close their browser for so long. i mean, when i go to sleep, i usually finish what i was doing, and close everything, except that torrent tool maybe :P |
| 20:50.44 | Adys | midori has promise but isnt gettign any dev .. |
| 20:50.53 | Beladona | agreed nevcairiel |
| 20:51.14 | Beladona | I evne routinely close and start new browser windows during the course of my browsing |
| 20:51.14 | Adys | arora is nice on linux atm |
| 20:51.19 | Adys | but need to compile it on amd64 |
| 20:51.23 | Adys | arorabrowser.org |
| 20:51.24 | Adys | brb |
| 20:51.25 | ZorbaTHut | nev, because we have webpages we want to leave open for later viewing |
| 20:51.41 | ZorbaTHut | if it wasn't for firefox being glitchy I'd probably leave it open for a month or two at a time |
| 20:51.43 | Beladona | Safari with the latest webkit passed Acid 3 |
| 20:51.43 | cogwheel | nevcairiel: I have a few sites I keep open constantly, and then I just use tabs as needed. |
| 20:51.54 | Adys | every night I forcecrash firefox to have the tabs saved |
| 20:52.13 | Adys | since, if i close it, the tabs disappear even though they are supposed to get saved |
| 20:52.48 | cogwheel | Like, I'll scan the headlines of slashdot and open new tabs for the stories i want to read. Then as i'm reading those, I may go to wikipedia, google, or other places to find more info on whatever it is I'm reading. My browsing habit resembles a tree more than anything |
| 20:53.00 | Lunessa | safari is a pretty decent browser. |
| 20:53.11 | cogwheel | Adys: opera handles that much better than Firefox imo |
| 20:53.11 | nevcairiel | cogwheel: yeah sure, but not for the next day .. not for me anyway :) |
| 20:53.30 | cogwheel | nevcairiel: no, usually i'll wind down to two or three tabs for the next day that get restored when i start up opera ;) |
| 20:53.51 | cogwheel | though i do that at work more than anything since it's often time to go before i'm done reading something |
| 20:54.09 | Lunessa | cogwheel: http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/10/02/funny-pictures-he-eatz-for-a-dai/ |
| 20:55.21 | cogwheel | :) |
| 20:56.58 | Lunessa | *waves fish at everyone* |
| 20:57.08 | Tem | You know those list boxes where there are two of them |
| 20:57.15 | Tem | and they have the little arrow thing |
| 20:57.20 | Tem | where you move items between them |
| 20:57.25 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 20:57.25 | Tem | what's that called? |
| 20:57.51 | nevcairiel | those have a name? |
| 20:57.53 | Lunessa | Combo Boxes? |
| 20:57.55 | cogwheel | i've never heard them referred to specifically |
| 20:58.06 | foxlit | I'm under the impression that those are just two list boxes and two buttons and some more code to make it work |
| 20:58.11 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 20:58.11 | nevcairiel | combo boxes are a edit box and a drop-down list box =P |
| 20:58.24 | foxlit | (besides, drag-and-drop) |
| 20:58.40 | Lunessa | *nod* |
| 20:58.40 | nevcairiel | yea i never saw a named widget for those |
| 20:59.03 | jaxdahl | don't remind me of the old MS Access days |
| 20:59.14 | Tem | I realize it's a combination of widgets |
| 20:59.22 | Tem | but if you had to give it a name, what would you call it? |
| 20:59.39 | Tem | I'm trying to do it without doing any work (i.e. find a jquery plugin that does it) |
| 21:00.20 | cogwheel | it's a common enough feature that there's probably a name for it, but it's also a rare enough feature that everyone who uses them calls them something different... |
| 21:00.44 | cogwheel | s/calls/probably calls/ |
| 21:01.13 | nevcairiel | cogwheel: now thats useful, haha |
| 21:02.16 | Beladona | home! |
| 21:02.45 | cogwheel | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Elements_of_user_interfaces doesn't seem to provide any hints |
| 21:03.39 | cogwheel | a ha! |
| 21:03.51 | cogwheel | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511484.aspx ctrl-f for list builders |
| 21:04.02 | cogwheel | guess how I got to that... |
| 21:04.29 | cogwheel | "I'm feeling lucky" with the search terms: two list boxes with add/remove buttons between them |
| 21:04.34 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 21:04.39 | nevcairiel | google wins |
| 21:06.26 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:07.26 | nevcairiel | man how many usage/visual guidelines one can list only for list boxes |
| 21:07.28 | nevcairiel | its amazing |
| 21:19.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Josh_Borke (n=jk275@WoWUIDev/WoWInterface/LegoBlock/joshborke) |
| 21:19.32 | Lunessa | Code Monkey think maybe Manager want to write goddamned login page himself. |
| 21:20.23 | Cide | code monkey not say it |
| 21:21.20 | foxlit | So you take a big bag of your big city money there and buy it |
| 21:22.00 | Lunessa | code monkey not stupid, just proud. |
| 21:22.49 | Amarande | Lunessa: the trick then is |
| 21:23.01 | Amarande | 1) Code Monkey code program so only Code Monkey know how to fix or update it |
| 21:23.12 | Amarande | 2) THEN Code Monkey go and say to Manager that maybe Manager want to write login page himself |
| 21:23.50 | Lunessa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Wy7gRGgeA |
| 21:24.24 | *** join/#wowuidev CrazyMYKL (n=rumors@149.152.112.26) |
| 21:24.24 | foxlit | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDiDK_yBCw0 < too! |
| 21:27.20 | Lunessa | the video for that is pretty well done. |
| 21:28.52 | foxlit | Most of the spiffworld stuff isn't bad :) |
| 21:30.04 | Lunessa | Yeah, you can really see his skill improving. |
| 21:30.38 | kneeki | Lunessa: LOL! |
| 21:30.42 | kneeki | Those videos are so epic |
| 21:30.48 | NightHawkTheSane | blargh |
| 21:30.53 | NightHawkTheSane | technical phone interviews are kinda sucky |
| 21:31.12 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 21:31.12 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 21:31.26 | Amarande | soooo |
| 21:31.40 | Amarande | starting a rogue without twinking is a) pain, or b) only slightly less awesome than being a twink? |
| 21:31.47 | Lunessa | I hope the they offer you the job any way. |
| 21:32.08 | Lunessa | B) the only twinking worth bothering with is bags. |
| 21:32.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Drayeah (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5d80fc595a578904) |
| 21:32.26 | Amarande | Yeah, even when I go dual gathering, I only go that long enough to get a full set of 16 slotters :) |
| 21:32.32 | [Liquidor] | Amarande, sucks without good weaps all the way up |
| 21:32.37 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: thanks :) I kinda got off to a shakey start, as they started with some low-level c++ stuff that I haven't done in a long while. :\ But overall i felt good. |
| 21:32.54 | Amarande | how about untwinked druids? |
| 21:32.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: i agree with Lunessa, twink yourself some bags, and you're fine |
| 21:33.00 | NightHawkTheSane | same |
| 21:33.08 | Amarande | twinking bags is gonna be so ridiculously easy soon too |
| 21:33.12 | NightHawkTheSane | druids dont even need good weapons :p |
| 21:33.15 | Lunessa | Heh, I once had a telephone interview where the first questions was "Describe the Document-Object Model" |
| 21:33.20 | Amarande | what's that, you have a stack of peacebloom? yay, now you have a full set of 18 slotters |
| 21:33.33 | Dashkal | O.o |
| 21:33.38 | Dashkal | wtf is the document-object model? |
| 21:33.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: don't even remind me. >< ugh |
| 21:33.50 | Amarande | only thing that occurs to me though is ... maybe I shouldn't do that idea of starting a character on a PvP server for kicks now |
| 21:33.57 | Lunessa | Dashkal: Google DOM. |
| 21:34.10 | Dashkal | DOM |
| 21:34.12 | Amarande | the starter areas are probably CRAWLING with 70's stocking up on herbs for the big market boom come 3.0.2 |
| 21:34.21 | Dashkal | heh, never heard that said expanded |
| 21:34.22 | Amarande | and if you're not their faction, you're probably going to be seeing grey, a lot |
| 21:34.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: yeah, the first few questions asked of me were "compare stack vs heap allocation" and "compare and contrast processes vs threads" >< |
| 21:34.49 | Lunessa | Well good luck NightHawk. |
| 21:34.59 | Amarande | though ... wait, you don't autoflag till after the starting areas, right? :) |
| 21:35.09 | Amarande | even on a PvP server? |
| 21:35.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: indeed |
| 21:35.17 | Amarande | ah, good |
| 21:35.26 | Amarande | otherwise, no one is going to be able to start a character for a good long while heh |
| 21:35.52 | Amarande | like I suggested, they'd keep getting killed by rabid hordes of 70's out to snag every peacebloom for money |
| 21:36.11 | NightHawkTheSane | well, define starting area? :P durotar/mulgore/etc won't flag you, but i believe barrens does? |
| 21:36.22 | Amarande | does Barrens? |
| 21:36.27 | Amarande | I think that might be considered a starter area |
| 21:36.31 | NightHawkTheSane | i havn't played on a pvp server in close to a year.. |
| 21:36.37 | Amarande | it comes up red in LocationFu when I go there with my alliance character, anyway |
| 21:36.42 | Amarande | which normally means 'enemy area' |
| 21:36.47 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe, yeah |
| 21:37.04 | Lunessa | Basically 13+ zones will flag you on PvP servers. |
| 21:37.16 | NightHawkTheSane | i remember redridge flags you, which is a comparable zone. |
| 21:37.28 | Amarande | then again, it's the barrens |
| 21:37.35 | Amarande | it's not worth ganking in |
| 21:37.40 | Dashkal | Barrens starts at 10 (and is safe) redridge starts at 15 (and is flagged) |
| 21:37.47 | Amarande | seeing as it takes you forever to find anyone or anything there |
| 21:38.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: pfft. spoiled brats these days have 3 FPs ;) i remember when we had ONE, and LIKED IT |
| 21:38.39 | Lunessa | Lies. We never liked it. |
| 21:39.01 | NightHawkTheSane | ... yeah.. |
| 21:39.13 | Amarande | Dash: wonder if that's one of the reasons why PvP servers are almost all horde majority |
| 21:39.22 | Amarande | even though the game as a whole, if I understand right is alliance majority for sure |
| 21:39.51 | Amarande | Horde can get to what, 40 or so without having to flag themselves at all, potentially? |
| 21:40.02 | Amarande | Barrens to 25, a few RFK runs to 30, SM to 40 |
| 21:40.15 | Dashkal | Dunno. I find that the horde seem to be generally _better_ at pvp, but I suspect that's more because the type of player why likes pvp may have a slight statistical bias toward horde. |
| 21:40.44 | Amarande | also, horde racials are slanted towards pvp, while alliance ones seem more slanted towards pve |
| 21:41.01 | Dashkal | Only somwhat. (old) Perception is probably the best PvP talent |
| 21:41.16 | Dashkal | Stoneform is a PvP talent, as is escape artist |
| 21:41.22 | Dashkal | s/talent/racial/ |
| 21:41.24 | Amarande | war stomp means any tauren gets a stun regardless of class, we don't even need to go into the details about WotF |
| 21:41.39 | Dashkal | absolutely. Point is it isn't such a significant bias |
| 21:41.45 | Amarande | arcane torrent, again any belf has a silence regardless of class ... |
| 21:41.58 | Amarande | When I think of alliance racials I think things like the human rep boost and such |
| 21:42.08 | NightHawkTheSane | perception is pretty big, though. |
| 21:42.12 | Amarande | though I've only ever played human and draenei past 10 alliance side |
| 21:42.12 | Dashkal | Thin human (old) perception or (new) pvp trinket |
| 21:42.20 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ |
| 21:42.23 | Dashkal | Humans have a killer PvP racial |
| 21:42.27 | NightHawkTheSane | both are exceptional |
| 21:42.35 | Amarande | I thought perception is being nerfed, though |
| 21:42.50 | Dashkal | Perception got nerfed and replaed by something just as good |
| 21:43.05 | Amarande | on the other hand, I could see the human racial as being a reason why so many *raiders* roll alliance, especially in BC |
| 21:43.14 | Dashkal | We have a 2 minute resilence-less PvP trinket. |
| 21:43.14 | Amarande | what with all the goodie bags you get for being exalted with this that and whatever |
| 21:43.37 | Tem | Dashkal: Perception was only too good because rogues and druids are too good |
| 21:43.38 | Dashkal | Once you hit the resi soft-cap the 'downside' becomes irelevant |
| 21:43.46 | Amarande | btw, speaking of the resilience thing |
| 21:44.07 | Amarande | does cheat death being based on resil, mean it won't reduce damage at ALL outside of PvP battlegrounds in 3.0 after proccing? |
| 21:44.17 | Amarande | or will resil still operate for that purpose only (which is not enough to be worth stacking it, of course) |
| 21:44.35 | Dashkal | Amarande: As far as I can tell they decided not to kill resilience outside of PvP |
| 21:44.44 | Amarande | ah, that was nixed |
| 21:44.51 | Amarande | good thing, since it occurred to me something the other night about it |
| 21:44.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: couldn't you use both the trinket and the racial anyway? |
| 21:45.07 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: shared cooldown |
| 21:45.11 | Amarande | if they were going to restrict it to battlegrounds ... it would mean good ol' PoMPyro mages would really go to town in world PvP |
| 21:45.12 | Dashkal | It was never directly refuted, but since then I've seen blues talk about resi on tanking gear |
| 21:45.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: hm, balanced, but suck :p |
| 21:45.28 | Amarande | Dash: isn't resi for tanking suck anyway, except for druids? |
| 21:45.30 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: I'm quite happy to have any trinket I like as my 'racial' :p |
| 21:45.42 | Dashkal | Amarande: useless for druids. Druids are uncrittable |
| 21:45.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: actually, its suck for druids now in wrath |
| 21:45.49 | Amarande | well, BC druids anyway |
| 21:45.54 | Dashkal | Seriously. We hit uncrittable with our talents in LK |
| 21:46.10 | Amarande | since there was no way to get uncrushability, and high res, due to the stat bias on pvp gear also means through the roof stamina |
| 21:46.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: bc druids will cease to exist in a few weeks :) |
| 21:46.30 | Dashkal | Right now Druids are _very_ OP in tanking :p |
| 21:46.44 | Dashkal | Frankly I welcome the nerf bat. I want to be a kitty, not a bear :p |
| 21:46.45 | NightHawkTheSane | but yeah, resilience -works- in pve, but it's never been an intended design |
| 21:46.59 | Dashkal | Other classes can add a little resi to supplement their defense. |
| 21:47.11 | Amarande | for war/pally though it was a fool's errand because using resilience to tank means that while you avoid crits (and have a ton of hp due to pvp gear bias) you are totally crushable |
| 21:47.17 | Dashkal | Since it's more efficient than defense to become uncrittable |
| 21:47.20 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, its less that than "well this is the best i have, the resilience is better than nothing" |
| 21:47.34 | Dashkal | Amarande: That's irelevant in 2 weeks. Crushing blows are gone |
| 21:47.43 | Amarande | +4 levels now, right? |
| 21:47.44 | Dashkal | or more accurately, require the mob to be 4 levels above |
| 21:47.46 | Dashkal | yeah |
| 21:47.49 | Dashkal | bosses are +3 |
| 21:47.51 | Dashkal | so... |
| 21:47.59 | Amarande | Dash: I could see them doing something, though |
| 21:48.05 | Amarande | like surprising us with holiday bosses that are 84's |
| 21:48.13 | NightHawkTheSane | no, i don't think so |
| 21:48.22 | Dashkal | perhaps, but they wanted crushing blows out of normal raiding |
| 21:48.25 | Tem | Screw being a kitty |
| 21:48.27 | Dashkal | Arthas won't crush |
| 21:48.28 | Tem | Bear is way more fun |
| 21:48.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Tem: agreed. |
| 21:48.38 | Dashkal | Tem: My DK can tank, my druid can rip lungs out :p |
| 21:48.40 | Amarande | actually, getting crushing blows out of raiding is a more far-ranging good thing |
| 21:48.47 | Amarande | it means tanks can make do with fewer gear sets |
| 21:48.56 | NightHawkTheSane | I keep trying to spec more kitty-focused in beta for leveling, but i keep wanting to point points in tanking talents >< |
| 21:49.01 | Amarande | right now, I understand that a raid tanking set is -heavily- suboptimal for 5-man tanking |
| 21:49.04 | Tem | Dashkal: I'd rather do both with my DK |
| 21:49.05 | Dashkal | Druids are in an... interesting position for gear. We _tank_ in rogue gear... |
| 21:49.17 | Tem | yeah, I don't like the sound of that at all |
| 21:49.22 | Amarande | (which also may be why I had aggro issues on my lock with my guild group in Arc that time, because the tank was in high end raiding gear ...) |
| 21:49.26 | Dashkal | We swap out our rings, amulet, cloak, and trinkets |
| 21:49.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: all part of the plan, though :p |
| 21:49.57 | Dashkal | Well it's certainly going to save me a ton of bag space on Savrine |
| 21:50.04 | Amarande | because in raid tanking, you have to have full avoidance because unlucky crushing blows can otherwise pretty much be a wipe |
| 21:50.05 | Tem | I may keep my druid as a resto healer |
| 21:50.06 | Dashkal | Right now I carry on me DPS and tanking sets |
| 21:50.11 | Dashkal | With a heal set in the bank |
| 21:50.16 | Amarande | as a result, you 5-man in raid gear, and you're going to get rage/mana starvation :) |
| 21:50.26 | Tem | esp since they announced buffs to Wild Growth and Nourish |
| 21:50.27 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: Honestly, i never had -huge- issues keeping 2 sets of gear, i do it on nearly all my toons. |
| 21:50.34 | Dashkal | Now I'll have a feral set and some tanking pieces, with a heal/boomkin set in the bank |
| 21:50.46 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: I just dislike having the 4 sets I do right now |
| 21:50.52 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: the actual thing i dont like about the consolidation of gear like that is that durability on shared pieces run out that much faster |
| 21:50.57 | Dashkal | Feral/DPS, Feral/Tank, Feral/PvP, Healing |
| 21:51.12 | Amarande | say, you know what they should make, Night? |
| 21:51.21 | NightHawkTheSane | there's no "shit my shoulder broke, i can swap in my other tanking/dps piece for now" |
| 21:51.26 | Amarande | they should have BS or such be able to make 'repair hammers' or the like |
| 21:51.31 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: Learn to engineer :p |
| 21:51.42 | Dashkal | My druid keeps repair bots |
| 21:51.44 | Amarande | of course, make them require high end mats like the repair bots so they aren't OP |
| 21:51.45 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: feh :P |
| 21:51.51 | Amarande | don't you still have to pay the repair bill to the bot? :) |
| 21:51.58 | Dashkal | Actually, you know what I think the hands down best raiding racial is now? Shadowmeld |
| 21:52.03 | Amarande | repair hammer would be a consumable, like the ones from say oblivion or the like |
| 21:52.05 | Dashkal | Just ask Tem ;) |
| 21:52.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: yeah, but if you're ass deep in an instance.. |
| 21:52.09 | Amarande | and would do no-bill repair |
| 21:52.19 | Amarande | but like I said, I'd require some high end mats for that, so you can't abuse it |
| 21:52.24 | Dashkal | Amarande: leather repair bill is cheap |
| 21:52.53 | Dashkal | My druid has become the anti-wipe when we raid. Since she can just shadowmeld when it gets nasty at the end and revive |
| 21:52.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: i like the idea, but without the no-cost bit. that's too easy to either: make worthless, or abuse |
| 21:53.08 | NightHawkTheSane | but a consumable repair-one-item thing would be neat. |
| 21:53.15 | Amarande | Like if I were Blizzard and added this hypothetical item in the BC days ... probably need a few primal earths or something like that |
| 21:53.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: does that work in combat? |
| 21:53.33 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: it does |
| 21:53.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: .. fuck you. thats much better than war stomp ;) |
| 21:53.49 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: It's a poor-man's vanish. It removes you, but you don't leave combat until you're the last one on the mob's hate list |
| 21:54.01 | Dashkal | 3 minute cd |
| 21:54.07 | NightHawkTheSane | thats still pretty awesome |
| 21:54.12 | Dashkal | Damn rights it is :p |
| 21:55.13 | Dashkal | About the only thing I'll miss is the old sit-and-eat-stealthed thing I had |
| 21:55.26 | Dashkal | But thanks to the ILotP changes, my feral won't have to do that anymore anyway |
| 21:55.30 | NightHawkTheSane | >.> man, and all i get is a lame 2s stun, and 'the voodoo shuffle' >< |
| 21:58.08 | ReAn | this just made my day: |
| 21:58.08 | ReAn | http://qdb.us/12431 |
| 21:58.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:03.01 | Dashkal | Woot, Kalgan just made my day (wow, never thought I'd say that) http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/10544541923-feedback--serious-pvp-itemization-concerns.html |
| 22:03.02 | Lunessa | Time to go home. Ciao tutti. |
| 22:03.07 | kneeki | ReAn: Awesome! |
| 22:03.10 | NightHawkTheSane | later Lunessa :) |
| 22:03.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: holy crap thats a freaking book |
| 22:03.35 | Dashkal | Read the last two paragraphs for the part I'm refering to |
| 22:03.39 | Dashkal | but the whole thing is useful |
| 22:04.05 | Dashkal | He explains the reasoning behind the pvp gear needing AP and the reason why the arena is the sole source of higher raited stuff |
| 22:04.26 | cbreak | pvp itemisation :( |
| 22:05.24 | Amarande | So is there any 80 pvp gear you can really get at all without substantial arena points, or is the honor-only gear going to be all 70 stuff until S7 comes out and S5 gear becomes honor? |
| 22:05.25 | Dashkal | More to the point he's made it clear that people want an alternative to the arena for the good stuff, and that they're actively seeking a way to determine skill in non-arena PvP settings |
| 22:05.37 | Dashkal | Amarande: apparently there's crated entry-level stuff |
| 22:05.40 | NeoTron | you can seriously get a piece of arena pvp gear per week without major skill? |
| 22:05.42 | Dashkal | crafted* |
| 22:05.52 | NeoTron | seems like a solid, almost required, path to speed up raid gear up |
| 22:06.02 | Amarande | Dash: so basically, we're best off spending our current honor on the 70 gear and it won't be worth saving for 80 |
| 22:06.31 | NeoTron | much easier than "getting a piece of gear" from a heroic since heroic drops are far from guaranteed |
| 22:07.22 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: thats been my main complaint about arena gear since it was implemented |
| 22:07.33 | Dashkal | NeoTron: consider that's arena work over a week, and that's about the maximum they _can_ get no matter how much extra work you put into it |
| 22:07.46 | Amarande | you mean the first step to getting into a raiding group at 80 is pretty much going to be to get into a 5's group at 80? |
| 22:07.46 | Dashkal | Whereas with heroics you can keep on trying more and more and more and get more gear |
| 22:08.03 | Amarande | which basically means, we have to get the crafted pvp starter stuff before we can even hope to have higher ambitions anywhere? |
| 22:08.08 | Dashkal | With the arena, if you need gear of that level, you sure as hell aren't getting to a rating that'll give you the better stuff |
| 22:08.10 | Amarande | speaking of which, that stuff BoE or BoP? |
| 22:08.24 | Dashkal | Amarande: you can always just lose your way into savage gladiator and work from there |
| 22:08.41 | Dashkal | not a fun option, but certainly functional |
| 22:08.50 | NightHawkTheSane | meh |
| 22:08.50 | Amarande | Dash: But no more gearing up from 5-man's and going to raiding, we will *have* to PvP first? |
| 22:08.50 | NeoTron | Dashkal: main issue remains that you can pve for a year and not get the drop you need |
| 22:08.55 | NightHawkTheSane | i have no plans of pvping, for -any- gear |
| 22:08.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@89.240.8.93) |
| 22:09.05 | NeoTron | like the fact that we only got 3 skulls ever ni my guild during 8-9 months of illidan |
| 22:09.06 | Dashkal | NeoTron: That's been seriously midigated by emblem gear |
| 22:09.10 | NeoTron | and most of casters went without |
| 22:09.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: it's still a problem |
| 22:09.18 | Amarande | oh, this is gonna be fun for my friends who don't pvp :| |
| 22:09.29 | NightHawkTheSane | they really need to move to a pure token based system :\ |
| 22:09.38 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: That'd be nice |
| 22:09.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: that would eliminate -so- many problems :p |
| 22:09.59 | Amarande | Night: nah |
| 22:10.08 | Amarande | because then to balance things, you'd need to have more tokens for everything than before |
| 22:10.16 | Dashkal | I never did see my tentacle-rape staff. |
| 22:10.30 | Amarande | and then you'd have people QQing on certain sundry battlegroups that they can't get the gear they need because the BG that gives the tokens they need is queued back into next Thursday all the time |
| 22:10.31 | Dashkal | Amarande: that would self-balance |
| 22:10.36 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, not really. just badge-style tokens, every boss drops 1 or something |
| 22:10.40 | Amarande | e.g. Stormstrike AV debacle pre-2.4 |
| 22:10.50 | Dashkal | Amarande: You'd need more emblems because you'd have more slots to fill |
| 22:11.13 | Amarande | where horde on that battlegroup were pretty much paralyzed when it came to getting pvp gear |
| 22:11.23 | Amarande | unless they were of the caliber in arena to purely rely on arena |
| 22:11.33 | NightHawkTheSane | ideally, i'd like to see each "tier" of 80+ instances drop it's own type of badge, and ALL the gear from that tier is badge purchasable |
| 22:11.40 | Dashkal | But then, I actually kind of like the compromise in PvE. I know I can get decent gear via tokens. It's pretty rare for that one drop I can't seem to get to be _required_ |
| 22:11.46 | Dashkal | FAP staffs are one of the few cases |
| 22:11.50 | NightHawkTheSane | this includes normal l80 dungeons, heroics, and raids |
| 22:11.56 | Amarande | Night: separate tiers for 5/10/25 man instances, or the same for all? |
| 22:12.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: in general, separate tiers :p |
| 22:12.16 | Dashkal | wtb ferals just normalizing the DPS of the damn staff. Get rid of the FAP stat |
| 22:12.39 | Amarande | Dash: or how my lock has been 70 for *months* and still has 89 spell hit in kara because stuff isn't dropping? |
| 22:12.46 | NightHawkTheSane | maybe, l80 normal, heroic / 10 man raids / 25 man raids |
| 22:12.53 | Amarande | in particular, the oblivion gloves, lack of which really hurts my spell hit |
| 22:13.11 | Amarande | because the few times I GET to go to SH, the damned gloves never drop |
| 22:13.44 | *** join/#wowuidev vithos (n=vithos@unaffiliated/vithos) |
| 22:13.44 | NightHawkTheSane | which, ironically, is pretty much -already- how PvP gear works. |
| 22:13.51 | Dashkal | PvE got quite a bit easier. From the start stuff (rep) being _much_ easier to grind, to there being a good selection of token gear. It works reasonably well |
| 22:13.54 | NightHawkTheSane | honor & arena points are just tokens by a different name |
| 22:14.02 | Dashkal | Oh god did I mention how much I love the "champion" system? |
| 22:14.18 | Dashkal | lf3m SH I need my damn hellfire rep! |
| 22:14.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: oh, don't get me wrong, they've made definite improvements. im speaking in a "my ideal game" kind of way :) and yeah, that's awesome. |
| 22:15.02 | Dashkal | Even if I do consider it a total WTF by lore. Why the hell does the ebon blade care about my activities in violet hold? |
| 22:15.13 | Amarande | Night: I'm still surprised the arena gear system hasn't epically failed the last two seasons, though |
| 22:15.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: well, I think the idea is that the approve of you championing their cause by wearing their colors. |
| 22:15.41 | Amarande | Dash: never mind that, how about netherwing where you actually get most of the rep by doing things for their ENEMIES |
| 22:15.51 | Dashkal | by the way, do we have any JCs in Secure Templars? I'd like to finish ebon blade but there's no point if I can't gem the damn things |
| 22:15.59 | NightHawkTheSane | so, your actions would improve other's opinions of said rep, which improves how much they appreciate you |
| 22:16.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: why would it? |
| 22:16.09 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: ... ... thank you so much |
| 22:16.28 | Dashkal | Amarande: your rep is gained by gaining the trust of their enemies, not by helping their enemies per se |
| 22:16.37 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: ... er, okay? *confused* |
| 22:16.45 | Amarande | Night: the general fear was pretty much that as a season matured, it would become difficult to impossible for people to break into arena anymore |
| 22:16.46 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: You just made that not bug me |
| 22:16.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: haha, no problem :) |
| 22:17.13 | Amarande | because not only would they be out-experienced by the people who had been there before, but they'd be out-geared too |
| 22:17.28 | Amarande | and have no chance to catch up in gear without somehow being so far and away better than the preceding people that they could overcome that huge gear deficit |
| 22:17.38 | Amarande | or else having to be high end raiders |
| 22:17.39 | Dashkal | Amarande: the new hidden-personal-rating system will help with that. But even now, I have a couple guildies breaking into S4 gear despite it |
| 22:17.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: ah, the rating system does a pretty good job of keeping that working smoothly, surprisingly |
| 22:17.56 | Amarande | S4 helped because they lowered the rating requirements |
| 22:18.01 | Amarande | S3 was probably the one where that mattered most |
| 22:18.10 | NightHawkTheSane | which is actually one of my annoyances with the pvp system, how relatively trivial it is to just step into top-end gear |
| 22:18.21 | Amarande | Night: that depends on the state of the game |
| 22:18.26 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: top end PvP gear. It's only so useful in PvE |
| 22:18.30 | Amarande | early in an expansion's lifespan, that rather sucks |
| 22:18.39 | Amarande | late in an expansion's lifespan, I tend to support the ability to get great gear quickly |
| 22:18.46 | Dashkal | I really don't care what the average ilvl of a player is, I care about how good their PvE stats are |
| 22:18.48 | NightHawkTheSane | well, my point is, to go from fresh 70->S4 gear takes less work than going from fresh 70->sunwell gear |
| 22:18.54 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: so? |
| 22:19.06 | Amarande | as it gives players who got into the game later an important leg up |
| 22:19.08 | Dashkal | As long as they can't take that gear and just walk into sunwell it's all good |
| 22:19.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: except they can. SOME of that gear actually functions well as pve gear |
| 22:19.23 | Dashkal | If they can... that's a very serious problem |
| 22:19.28 | NightHawkTheSane | now, maybe not at the sunwell level. |
| 22:19.37 | Dashkal | breaking into a tier below doesn't bug me |
| 22:19.43 | Amarande | one eternal problem with MMOs in general is that unless you go to a deserted or new server, you're treading water for a long long time to just get to the point where groups will even take you at the top, whatever your skill is |
| 22:19.48 | NightHawkTheSane | but it sure helps walking into t5 or so with some s4 pieces |
| 22:19.50 | Amarande | simply because of the time it takes to accumulate the material resources |
| 22:19.54 | Dashkal | Since it lets slow guilds (like mine) progress a little faster than we could |
| 22:20.12 | Amarande | and sunwell ... is an abnormality anyway, mainly due to how long it took between BT's and Sunwell's release |
| 22:20.18 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: what bothers me is that pve is very progression based, you start at the bottom and you work your way up, it's more difficult to short-cut your way to the top tier than it is in pvp |
| 22:20.22 | Dashkal | But it had damn well better not allow a full PvP geared player of any class just walk into the equivilent PvE tier |
| 22:20.42 | Amarande | I think if a guild started now with fresh 70's and really put their noses to the grindstone they would probably down Illidan by WOTLK, assuming they're natural enough talents at RPGs |
| 22:20.55 | Amarande | and took advantage of all the various ways to gear up quickly |
| 22:21.01 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: There's a counter to that: In PvE you beat a given tier to progress to the next one. In PvP you beat a given tier to progress _into that tier_ |
| 22:21.10 | Amarande | but they'd never get into Sunwell |
| 22:21.22 | Dashkal | You need to kill s4 geared players to get into full s4 yourself |
| 22:21.31 | Amarande | yeah, what Dash says |
| 22:21.58 | Amarande | as the season wears on, the gear gap means it gets HARDER to get geared |
| 22:22.08 | *** join/#wowuidev gammaa (n=hehee@89.0.58.114.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 22:22.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 22:22.10 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 22:22.15 | Dashkal | If it wasn't for the vindicator stuff, it would be an insurmountable challenge |
| 22:22.19 | NightHawkTheSane | well, the rating requirements helped there. |
| 22:22.21 | Amarande | in PvE, on the flip side, due to the increasing number of progressed players with better gear, it becomes easier to get geared yourself |
| 22:22.41 | NightHawkTheSane | but were those not there (and i formed this opinion originally when they werent), its much more of an issue |
| 22:22.44 | Dashkal | Yep. You could take my tier 4 geared ass and gear me right into t6 without having the raid flop |
| 22:22.55 | Amarande | if you had enough gold, you could probably pay a top guild to drag you through SSC/TK say and there you go full T5 and a bunch of badges |
| 22:23.27 | Amarande | and as long as you don't do something dumb like pull adds, the guild probably won't feel it that they're 24-manning |
| 22:23.29 | NightHawkTheSane | ah, but again, that only even works if the stuff you want drops :p |
| 22:23.40 | NightHawkTheSane | doesn't help to drag a tank through ssk/tk/bt/mh if onlyl caster gear drops :) |
| 22:23.50 | Amarande | Night: ungh tell me about *that* |
| 22:23.53 | Esine | can anyone access wow-europe forums atm? |
| 22:23.55 | Amarande | I still remember my last trip through kara |
| 22:24.00 | Amarande | it did not help me one iota, outside of badges |
| 22:24.08 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: It's easy enough to get _something_ I want when looking at a gear table I have nothing from. It gets very hard to get that last thing |
| 22:24.17 | Dashkal | And again, tokens help fill in the holes |
| 22:24.20 | Amarande | literally we got all the way through from start to chess event without a single piece of DPS cloth dropping |
| 22:24.29 | Amarande | except for one that was only for fire casters, and I'm aff so that's useless to me |
| 22:24.51 | Dashkal | Fucking squid staff. |
| 22:24.58 | Legorol | lol |
| 22:24.59 | Dashkal | It dropped _once_ while I was raiding. |
| 22:25.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: *shrug* i've seen pre-kara geared people get run through, and not have anything ddrop for them. it sucked :P agreed, its more of a rarity, but it's part of the disparity between pve and pvp gearing |
| 22:25.05 | Dashkal | It's dropped twice since then |
| 22:25.28 | [Liquidor] | Esine, no |
| 22:25.38 | Esine | ok. :x |
| 22:25.47 | NightHawkTheSane | heh, one of the druids in my old guild never got it, eventually got the ZA staff. then he was on a kara raid with my druid alt, and the staff dropped :) |
| 22:25.48 | Dashkal | We're damn near at "Shard of the sharding". Yes, I'm bitter about that staff... and I don't even want it anymore |
| 22:27.13 | ReAn | the hentai rape-stick? |
| 22:27.17 | Dashkal | There's also the effect that PvE gets easier the more you do it (provided randomness stays down). The better you know the fight, the easier it is. PvP doesn't do that so much since your opponent will always change up the fight on you |
| 22:27.19 | Dashkal | ReAn: yep |
| 22:27.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-141-134-74.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:27.37 | ReAn | Dashkal: isn't that the appeal of pvp? |
| 22:27.42 | Dashkal | ReAn: yep |
| 22:28.05 | Dashkal | The point I was making is the reward curve falls along with the difficulty curve in PvE. |
| 22:28.28 | Amarande | Indeed ... PvE, for the most part, seems to be about how well you know the fight, even more so than having good gear |
| 22:28.42 | Dashkal | The reward curve doesn't have to fall in PvP since the difficulty doesn't fall |
| 22:28.54 | Amarande | which, I suppose, is why I tend to dislike gear checks, although I rather understand the mechanics of why there's gear checks |
| 22:28.58 | ReAn | PvE = Rehersal, PvP = Improv |
| 22:29.01 | cbreak | PvE is for the most part having enough people who are capable to raid |
| 22:29.12 | Amarande | The basic flaw of gear checks is pretty simple |
| 22:29.14 | cbreak | of suitable classes |
| 22:29.28 | Dashkal | You can learn a PvE fight and be damn good at it, making it 'easy'. I defy you to 'learn' a PvP fight against a very skilled team :p |
| 22:29.36 | Amarande | Gear check means that a group has the skill, has the strats down completely pat, and yet can't continue because they have to ... go back and farm stuff over and over |
| 22:29.37 | ReAn | well cbreak, they're trying to remove the suitable classes part of it in wotlk |
| 22:29.53 | Fisker- | btw |
| 22:29.56 | Amarande | ReAn, let's see how well that works out :| |
| 22:29.56 | Fisker- | speaking of trolling |
| 22:30.06 | Amarande | hopefully there's still ENOUGH distinction |
| 22:30.09 | Fisker- | Blizzard should give healers free but not as efficient heals |
| 22:30.10 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 22:30.15 | Dashkal | :p |
| 22:30.23 | Amarande | fisker: draenei get those every 3 minutes |
| 22:30.29 | ReAn | Dashkal: However, try to imagine how pvp would be if every time you fought, you fought the same team, with the same encounter & environment |
| 22:30.38 | ReAn | it'd be different yes, cuz they learn |
| 22:30.51 | Amarande | the last thing I want to see, is my warlock not getting into raid groups because class blurring means that she has to fully compete with huntards |
| 22:30.52 | ReAn | but i find it hard for anyone to actually properly compare pvp and pve |
| 22:30.54 | Dashkal | ReAn: as long as that team is able to learn from their mistakes, it'll stay challenging |
| 22:30.59 | Fisker- | Well think about it every damage class can still dish out decent damage while waiting for rage/energy/etc. to regen |
| 22:31.04 | Fisker- | :P |
| 22:31.11 | Dashkal | Personally, I'd get my ass handed to me. I don't adapt quickly enough |
| 22:31.15 | Amarande | there are few enough raid groups I can really be active with as it is, because of my job. |
| 22:31.43 | Dashkal | anyway, I need to get something to eat. Forgot lunch and three hours later my gut is reminding me bigtime. |
| 22:33.48 | cbreak | we can't damage anything close to meaningfull while waiting for mana to regen |
| 22:34.11 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 22:35.02 | NightHawkTheSane | i hate to say it, but i can't wait for Icy touch to be nerfed. |
| 22:38.51 | jaxdahl | normally you'd only be able to use it once every 5 seconds on average, but death runes make it unnecessarily powerful IMO |
| 22:39.38 | jaxdahl | it hits for over 4k even with the glyph that reduces damage which i use for tanking |
| 22:39.44 | Dewin | Does anybody here use WoW UI Designer? |
| 22:40.27 | [Liquidor] | I did a couple of times. |
| 22:40.34 | NightHawkTheSane | jaxdahl: yeah, with both death rune talents.. its obscene |
| 22:40.45 | NightHawkTheSane | and i actually dislike it as a rotation |
| 22:40.52 | Dewin | Liquidor: What did you think of it? |
| 22:40.59 | [Liquidor] | I only used WoWUiDesigner to setup a quick option frame |
| 22:41.06 | [Liquidor] | After that I didn't bother with it. |
| 22:41.12 | Dewin | that's the only thing I want from it too, really. |
| 22:41.14 | [Liquidor] | I hate the fact that you can only use it for new projects |
| 22:46.02 | Dewin | Hmm |
| 22:46.19 | Dewin | there was a post about creating options in Blizzard's interface options frame awhile back... I wonder if I can find it |
| 22:49.09 | kd3 | 2.4 changes sticky |
| 22:49.13 | Dewin | ty |
| 22:49.58 | Dewin | umm... I don't think it's sticky anymore. |
| 22:50.11 | kd3 | ok... the hell? BT /1: "WTF? 3 Nesingwary Lackey Ear from 1 guy" |
| 22:50.13 | ReAn | [Liquidor], option frames are relatively simple using AceConfig-3.0 |
| 22:51.15 | [Liquidor] | ReAn, I know, but some of us would like to learn the basic xml blizz scheme |
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| 22:51.27 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 22:52.01 | [Liquidor] | I still don't know how to create prober xml files. As in where to set attributes etc. It sucks I know -.- |
| 22:52.28 | NightHawkTheSane | kd3: haha... |
| 22:56.11 | ReAn | use code |
| 22:56.14 | ReAn | xml parses slowly |
| 22:56.34 | Dewin | slower than compiling code? |
| 22:56.41 | ReAn | local myOptionsFrame = CreateFrame("frame", "MyOptions", UIParent); |
| 22:56.43 | ReAn | Dewin, yes |
| 22:56.49 | ReAn | it may have been fixed |
| 22:56.50 | ReAn | but |
| 22:56.52 | Dewin | good to know. |
| 22:56.58 | Dewin | I like the all-lua approach anyways |
| 22:57.04 | ReAn | Blizzard's XML Parser was slow |
| 22:57.05 | [Liquidor] | ReAn, orly? |
| 22:57.09 | ReAn | yes |
| 22:57.17 | [Liquidor] | Why do you think I wrote "prober xml files" ? |
| 22:57.32 | [Liquidor] | We're not here for you to tell us what and how really. |
| 22:57.34 | Tuller | I like XML if I ever have to make a gigantic frame, ex combuctor |
| 22:57.49 | NightHawkTheSane | why does wowcompares.com periodically load with blank text >< |
| 22:57.50 | [Liquidor] | I prefer XML as well for bigger frames. |
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| 22:58.13 | Josh_Borke | i highly doubt that xml is slower than lua frames |
| 22:58.15 | cbreak | I don't like that xml pretends to be human readable. |
| 22:58.28 | Josh_Borke | cbreak: how does it pretend? |
| 22:58.35 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 22:59.26 | cogwheel | [Liquidor]: if you used a decent xml editor you wouldn't have to know any of that ;) Code completion based on schema 4tw |
| 22:59.37 | cbreak | it is so overly verbose that it takes up a lot of screen space, so it's hard to see the various hierarchies |
| 22:59.56 | [Liquidor] | sec healing MT on kara :) |
| 23:00.12 | Tuller | just make sure you don't do too much craziness in one thing, and its not too bad |
| 23:00.12 | cogwheel | cbreak: that can also be cured by a decent editor |
| 23:00.16 | Josh_Borke | cbreak: lol, there's a difference between readable and parsable ;-) |
| 23:00.23 | cbreak | yes. |
| 23:00.35 | cogwheel | and lua's worse in that respect, since there is no hierarchy to the code |
| 23:00.43 | cogwheel | so there's nothing to see :P |
| 23:00.54 | cbreak | details... :) |
| 23:01.30 | Legorol | I'm a purist. The XML part was designed to describe structure, Lua part to describe process. I use those for those purposes. |
| 23:01.36 | cogwheel | ^ |
| 23:01.56 | Legorol | zomg, cog gave me a ^ of approval |
| 23:02.04 | cbreak | I create frames. you describe frames and let wow create them :) |
| 23:02.16 | Legorol | no, you and I both ask WoW to create them |
| 23:02.17 | cbreak | same outcome |
| 23:02.34 | cbreak | I describe the process how they are created |
| 23:02.34 | Legorol | However, I describe its structure, whereas you say: dear wow, please create me a frame with this and this structure |
| 23:02.44 | Legorol | o'rly |
| 23:02.50 | cbreak | yes. |
| 23:02.58 | Josh_Borke | s/created/layed-out/ |
| 23:03.21 | Legorol | Let me see... "I'd like to buy a house" or "I'd like to buy a foundation, on top of it with some brick and mortar, and a roof please" |
| 23:03.44 | Legorol | but to each their own |
| 23:04.13 | cbreak | I can build my house when I need it, many times thought. |
| 23:04.26 | Legorol | so can i |
| 23:04.32 | Legorol | because i can paint a blueprint instead |
| 23:04.39 | cbreak | virtuals? cheating! |
| 23:04.42 | Legorol | and ask wow: "please build a house based on this blueprint" |
| 23:04.52 | Legorol | lol |
| 23:05.10 | Legorol | yes i'm a cheator |
| 23:05.18 | Josh_Borke | dude |
| 23:05.24 | Josh_Borke | that's like XML's biggest feature |
| 23:05.46 | Legorol | Josh_Borke: doable in Lua too just fine |
| 23:05.52 | Josh_Borke | Legorol: but not the same |
| 23:06.05 | Legorol | aye |
| 23:06.08 | Legorol | and it gets ugly |
| 23:06.15 | Josh_Borke | yea it does |
| 23:06.28 | Josh_Borke | man, i wonder whatever happened to mikk's in game gui creator |
| 23:06.34 | Legorol | facedesk? that's a good one |
| 23:06.36 | ReAn | lol NightHawkTheSane |
| 23:06.57 | cbreak | caffeine helps against facedesks. |
| 23:07.06 | Legorol | you think he fainted? |
| 23:07.23 | NightHawkTheSane | so, stupid question, before i run with this too much.. is there anything really bad with using GetMouseFocus() in an onclick function to return the object i'm clicking on, if i can't get a reference to it another way? |
| 23:07.26 | ReAn | http://images.reanmachine.com/facepalm.jpg |
| 23:08.03 | [Liquidor] | NightHawkTheSane, can't you intercept the onclick function? |
| 23:08.29 | cbreak | OnClick should get the frame as first argument to the handler |
| 23:08.31 | [Liquidor] | Actually I don't even know if you can do that :) |
| 23:08.31 | cbreak | (I think) |
| 23:08.44 | [Liquidor] | Can you GetScript? |
| 23:08.47 | NightHawkTheSane | hmm... |
| 23:09.17 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: thank you. i'm an idiot. |
| 23:09.23 | ReAn | [Liquidor]: Im fairly certain you can GetScript |
| 23:10.03 | NightHawkTheSane | I think i need to get some food.. |
| 23:10.32 | Dewin | Is there a way, using the standard interface options API, to allow me to re-use the same 'frame' for different levels of interface options? |
| 23:10.55 | ReAn | [Liquidor]: http://www.wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/Frame/GetScript |
| 23:11.02 | ReAn | anyway,s off to work for me |
| 23:11.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Dewin: im not sure i know what you mean? |
| 23:11.29 | [Liquidor] | He wants 2 menuoptions to show the same frame |
| 23:11.48 | Dewin | I don't want to create a bunch of near-identical frames for each bar's options |
| 23:12.01 | Dewin | I'd rather just initialize it to some state depending on which option was clicked. |
| 23:12.06 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, ahh. |
| 23:12.39 | NightHawkTheSane | well, you could create a single frame structure for what you want, as long as you make sure to initialize it's settings to whatever the current "item" is, and save them properly. |
| 23:12.58 | Dewin | Yes, but how do I know which interface option was clicked? |
| 23:13.29 | NightHawkTheSane | use that option's click handler? |
| 23:14.11 | Dewin | I don't even know how to get at the click handler, I'm talking the left side of the standard interface options UI |
| 23:14.17 | Dewin | which... I'm thinking is not going to be something I use. |
| 23:14.45 | NightHawkTheSane | hm.. oh, so you'd have each "bar" as a sub-category? |
| 23:14.49 | cbreak | can't you store in the frame something that identifies for what it was shown? |
| 23:14.50 | Dewin | yeah |
| 23:15.03 | NightHawkTheSane | hmm... |
| 23:15.05 | Dewin | cbreak: Then I'd have to duplicate the frame for each instance. |
| 23:15.17 | cbreak | you want to use it at the same time for different things? |
| 23:15.26 | Dewin | Only one thing would ever be visible at a time. |
| 23:15.34 | cbreak | then you can just update the field |
| 23:15.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Dewin: you'd probably have to create a separate "parent" frame for each category, and use that frame's OnShow to intialize your actual options |
| 23:15.45 | cbreak | myframe.id ="first frame"; |
| 23:15.53 | cbreak | or what ever. |
| 23:16.02 | Dewin | cbreak: the issue was I'd never have an opportunity to set that |
| 23:16.12 | Dewin | not without hooking Blizzard's stuff. |
| 23:16.17 | cbreak | oh, you don't show it yourself? |
| 23:16.23 | Dewin | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2968233433&postId=44930053120&sid=1#294 |
| 23:16.45 | Dewin | I'm going to go frameXML diving and see if there's any fancy undocumented methods though |
| 23:17.11 | Dewin | OnShow would work, but it occurs to me that panel.parent is flimsy and will break easily anyways ;) |
| 23:17.21 | cbreak | interesting. |
| 23:17.49 | Dewin | Main reason I wanted to use Blizzard's way is because I want the tree dropdown |
| 23:17.50 | Dewin | but... yuck. |
| 23:17.55 | cbreak | how do you initialize the data that is shown? |
| 23:18.03 | NightHawkTheSane | well, what I'm thinking is that the OnShow for each category would have to reparent & reanchor your generic options frame to its specific parent, and initialize it appropriately |
| 23:18.22 | Dewin | Yes, that'd work, but there's another problem |
| 23:18.39 | Dewin | since .parent is a string... |
| 23:18.44 | NightHawkTheSane | but for that to work, you'd ALSO have to monitor each control for changes, and record the change to handle okay/cancel properly |
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| 23:19.35 | Dewin | I think I'm going to look at some other way of doing configuration :) |
| 23:19.49 | NightHawkTheSane | Dewin: well, yeah, but it's also the only real link between which category you have shown, and the options frame :p |
| 23:19.51 | cbreak | Dewin: slash command commands! :) |
| 23:20.27 | Dewin | Nighthawkthesane: It'd be fine if .parent could refer to a specific panel rather than naming by text alone |
| 23:20.37 | Dewin | since what happens if you rename something, particularly if the name clashes with another addon's interface options? |
| 23:20.57 | cbreak | is the name the name of the frame? |
| 23:20.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Dewin: well, you could always add your own ".parentFrame" reference in |
| 23:21.24 | cbreak | then it should be stored in a globals |
| 23:21.37 | Dewin | No, name is the name that appears in the treeview on the left |
| 23:21.48 | Dewin | pretty sure it's not a global. |
| 23:22.00 | Dewin | granted, this is solely based on reading the post, which may or may not be accurate |
| 23:23.06 | Dewin | wtb listbox and treeview controls |
| 23:23.52 | cbreak | I want editable textures. |
| 23:24.04 | cbreak | a drawable canavas |
| 23:24.48 | Dewin | cbreak: Treeview and listbox constructs are already creatable, it's just a pain. |
| 23:25.29 | Dewin | NightHawkTheSane: .parentFrame won't fix the issue with Blizzard's UI putting stuff in the wrong spot. |
| 23:25.41 | Dewin | I say this belongs to "Group 1". If some other addon defines a "Group 1", it will put it there ;) |
| 23:26.00 | cbreak | you need prefixes :) |
| 23:26.03 | Dewin | And what about deciphering dropdown menus? I actually figured those out, maybe I can help. |
| 23:26.04 | cbreak | or GUIDs :) |
| 23:26.17 | Dewin | Or less braindead Blizzard coders. |
| 23:26.53 | cog|away | Dewin: we have those... they're busy building new stuff :P |
| 23:27.30 | cog|away | bbl |
| 23:27.33 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, im sure blizzard guys are doing the best they can |
| 23:28.19 | Dewin | Why the heck store the tree of interface options as table["Categoryname"] instead of a hierarchy on the panels themselves, or even table[panelObject] |
| 23:29.34 | Josh_Borke | huh? |
| 23:29.47 | Josh_Borke | btw, dropdown menus are the worst thing to make ;-) |
| 23:30.18 | cbreak | I use them :/ a function that creates a table and returns it depending on the input. |
| 23:30.22 | Dewin | eh, they're not too hard to make IMHO, just poorly documented. |
| 23:31.37 | Dewin | and... they don't handle obscene amounts of entries too well. |
| 23:31.57 | Dewin | i.e. window goes off the screen |
| 23:33.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Josh_Borke: tell me about it. i'm rolling my own right now to learn how, i hate it. |
| 23:34.39 | Dewin | EasyMenu works for me fairly well ;) |
| 23:34.53 | Dewin | there are some inconsistencies though |
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| 23:35.18 | Dewin | Am I the only one that reads that as mode -arff (like a dog going 'arf arf')? |
| 23:39.03 | ScytheBlade1 | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7646807.stm |
| 23:40.32 | cbreak | "Rick's fans have obviously decided that he deserves recognition as a pop icon and no doubt they are determined to make sure he wins on the night," I am not sure if they really are fans... |
| 23:40.48 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm about 99% sure that 4chan is to blame/thank |
| 23:42.42 | Kaso | i think i voted for that. |
| 23:42.49 | NightHawkTheSane | I'm torn.. between desperately wanting to see him win, and being ashamed that they could even pull this off |
| 23:42.57 | ScytheBlade1 | indeed @ NightHawkTheSane |
| 23:43.25 | ScytheBlade1 | "The star, *who has never been nominated in the history of the event*" |
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| 23:49.05 | Legorol | Is there a wotlk version of a Lua error message collector addon such as Swatter? I tried looking on wowi's wotlk section but couldn't find one |
| 23:50.37 | Pneumatus | !BugGrabber + BugSack are working |
| 23:50.39 | Dashkal | I'm using swatter |
| 23:51.01 | Dashkal | Just ripped it directly from my live auctioneer package |
| 23:51.56 | Legorol | thanks Dashkal, I'll try that |
| 23:53.31 | Arrowmaster | yeah theres nothing at all wrong with bugsack that would need updating |
| 23:53.53 | Dewin | bugsack works as long as ace2 is updated |
| 23:54.02 | [Liquidor] | How come people hate dropdowns so much? |
| 23:54.08 | Arrowmaster | which ace2 is updated |
| 23:54.29 | [Liquidor] | Isn't it as simple as adding items and updating? |
| 23:58.05 | Legorol | wow, amazing.. EquipCompare only needs the TOC changing... still |
| 23:58.11 | Legorol | and it works |
| 23:58.42 | Legorol | I really should rewrite it some day from scratch |
