| 00:01.03 | Duman | tem: servers semi-stable? |
| 00:01.06 | smcn | so i wonder, were there people saying "zomg ramparts needs a buff we cleared it in 10 minutes with full naxx gear" during BC beta? |
| 00:01.17 | Tem | Duman, not really |
| 00:01.23 | Duman | tem: :_( |
| 00:01.49 | Tem | smcn, in BC there were upgrades to T2 gear in the first HFP quests you did |
| 00:02.08 | Tem | in LK, the first upgrades to T4 gear are in the 74 range |
| 00:02.11 | Tem | that's the difference |
| 00:02.20 | Tem | there's no immediate leveling of the field |
| 00:02.38 | Tekkub | yea, landing in as a 70 I'm replacing my 70 blues off the bat, but not my kara gear |
| 00:03.02 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 00:03.10 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraioc_ (n=sioraioc@cpc3-oxfd7-0-0-cust275.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:03.21 | Corrodias | it's almost done converting the larger of my screenshot folders |
| 00:03.29 | Duman | a lot of the vanilla -> BC stuff was due to the +stam doubling |
| 00:03.37 | Duman | well, and better itemization ;) |
| 00:03.54 | ScytheBlade1 | s/ doubling/^2/ |
| 00:03.58 | ScytheBlade1 | As a mage anyway ;P |
| 00:03.58 | Tekkub | no more +shad dam plate! |
| 00:04.31 | Tem | AlexanderYoshi, what changed with the combat log in this push? |
| 00:04.38 | Tem | addons that parse it are confused as hell |
| 00:04.59 | Duman | yeah something changed... everything says (1 resisted) |
| 00:05.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Tem: he may/may not be the guy to ask... wouldn't the diffs tell us? |
| 00:05.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm that sounds like the return order changed |
| 00:05.46 | Tem | ScytheBlade1, considering that Alex wrote the new combat log, I Don't think it's a poor guess to think he might know something about it... |
| 00:06.28 | Corrodias | well, that's reasonable |
| 00:06.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Eh true, but considering that everything is saying (1 resisted) that says to me the return order changed which also means that the lua wasn't updated |
| 00:06.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Which means he may have no clue at all, haha |
| 00:06.56 | *** join/#wowuidev haste (i=haste@hirano.ixo.no) |
| 00:06.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Who knows |
| 00:07.10 | Duman | haha |
| 00:07.24 | ScytheBlade1 | I got WoW closed... |
| 00:07.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Now to get IRC and my browser out of the way... |
| 00:07.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Those may be a bit more tricky.. |
| 00:08.18 | AlexanderYoshi | Tem |
| 00:08.21 | AlexanderYoshi | We added 1 arguement |
| 00:08.29 | AlexanderYoshi | [Damage], [Overkill Damage] |
| 00:08.35 | Tem | ugh |
| 00:08.46 | Tem | I mean yay for new feature |
| 00:09.07 | AlexanderYoshi | come on, ffs, even I know that's only a 1 line change |
| 00:09.07 | AlexanderYoshi | lol |
| 00:09.08 | Corrodias | aha, cute |
| 00:09.09 | Tem | but now my mage won't look good on the dps charts anymore |
| 00:09.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Er, overkill only applies when the mob dies |
| 00:09.33 | ScytheBlade1 | To a single spell/ability from a single player |
| 00:09.36 | Tem | I'm not worried about updating addons :) |
| 00:09.37 | Corrodias | Tem does 100,000 damage per hit |
| 00:09.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh |
| 00:09.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Well then yes that is a concern for Tem |
| 00:09.50 | AlexanderYoshi | We really need to get the guy who does WWS to update |
| 00:09.59 | AlexanderYoshi | so that we can get some reliable DPS parses out of Naxx |
| 00:10.05 | Tem | lol nice |
| 00:10.07 | AlexanderYoshi | :(( |
| 00:10.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Mmm Naxx |
| 00:10.16 | Corrodias | oh that's right, naxx is a new thing in Wrath now |
| 00:10.18 | ScytheBlade1 | wtb 10-man Naxx |
| 00:10.28 | AlexanderYoshi | wts 10-man naxx $59.99 |
| 00:10.36 | ScytheBlade1 | ZOMG THEY ANNOUNCED A FINAL PRICE |
| 00:10.38 | Corrodias | WTB dungeon that only allows men in, 10 at a time :D |
| 00:10.43 | AlexanderYoshi | asif |
| 00:10.45 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 00:10.49 | Corrodias | Sausage Grotto |
| 00:10.52 | Tem | ScytheBlade1, price for what? |
| 00:10.52 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm so totally messing with you ;D |
| 00:10.54 | AlexanderYoshi | WTS Playboy Mansion $10,000,000 |
| 00:11.00 | Duman | sigh |
| 00:11.10 | Tem | AlexanderYoshi, I'm surprized you guys don't have an in house dps parser |
| 00:11.28 | Tem | I suppose it's possible that you do, but WWS has more features |
| 00:11.33 | Corrodias | 1536 screenshots in that folder |
| 00:11.35 | Cide | I bet he meant from other guilds |
| 00:11.37 | AlexanderYoshi | Am I allowed to say that sometimes the inhouse stuff is inferior and less polished? |
| 00:11.41 | AlexanderYoshi | But yes |
| 00:11.43 | AlexanderYoshi | What Cide said |
| 00:11.44 | Corrodias | can't believe i hit that key over a thousand times |
| 00:11.45 | smcn | lol |
| 00:12.01 | Tem | heh |
| 00:12.03 | Tem | So |
| 00:12.18 | Tem | Game design soapbox time for tem |
| 00:12.33 | AlexanderYoshi | K, you do that while I stand over here and work. |
| 00:12.39 | Duman | haha |
| 00:12.40 | Tem | I don't want DK dps to be as simple as spamming a cast sqeuence macro |
| 00:12.55 | Corrodias | why not? every other class is |
| 00:12.56 | Corrodias | LOL |
| 00:12.57 | Tem | which is currently the case for Frost and Unholy |
| 00:12.59 | Corrodias | i kid, i kid |
| 00:13.05 | Tem | I know every other class is |
| 00:13.17 | Cide | not healers, not tanks |
| 00:13.19 | Cide | only dps |
| 00:13.23 | Tem | well yeah |
| 00:13.51 | Corrodias | my big fluffy kitty is sleeping on the couch, on her side |
| 00:13.51 | Lukian | I tank with castsequence macros.. |
| 00:14.00 | Cide | you slack |
| 00:14.39 | Lukian | I prefer to watch my group, rather than my cooldowns/rotation :p |
| 00:14.57 | Corrodias | tanking might not be the thing for you~~~ |
| 00:15.07 | Lukian | <- paladin :p |
| 00:15.18 | Corrodias | that... does that matter? >_> |
| 00:15.25 | Tem | yes, it does |
| 00:15.36 | Tem | pallies don't even have to target the mob they're tanking |
| 00:15.38 | Syzgyn | Gah, I wait for the server to come back up to release from an instance, then it goes right back down :( |
| 00:15.38 | Lukian | you expect me to manually click holy shield every 10 seconds? :p |
| 00:15.46 | Duman | yes |
| 00:15.47 | Duman | :) |
| 00:15.48 | Lukian | and manually weave seals? |
| 00:15.54 | Lukian | what's wrong with you people! |
| 00:15.56 | Corrodias | no, i expect you to keybind it like a real player. woot! |
| 00:16.09 | Cide | no, I expect you to die |
| 00:16.16 | Cide | </bondquote> |
| 00:16.18 | Lukian | unlikely :p |
| 00:16.21 | Lukian | :D |
| 00:16.31 | Duman | all the people qq'ing that the beta server is unstable need to have their beta keys revoked and given to me |
| 00:17.06 | Duman | or... well.. I just want 2-3 more for my friends... don't need like 50 |
| 00:18.02 | Tem | I just kinda wish that the servers would be crashy during the week |
| 00:18.05 | Tem | when I cant' play anyway |
| 00:18.08 | Duman | amen |
| 00:18.24 | Tem | this patch on friday thing kinda sucks |
| 00:18.39 | Duman | thursday would be better ;) |
| 00:18.47 | Corrodias | i hereby move 10 gigs of downloaded shit to my other drive so i can get more PORN! |
| 00:18.53 | Duman | we have a "don't push code on friday" policy at work, heh |
| 00:19.04 | Duman | (well, save emergency patches) |
| 00:19.59 | Tekkub | agreed, do it on thurs |
| 00:20.11 | Corrodias | my computer is so busy on all 3 drives that winamp is having trouble playing music |
| 00:20.18 | Duman | lol, instant poison is completely OP right now |
| 00:20.39 | Duman | it's hitting for like 1k a pop |
| 00:20.44 | Tem | awesine |
| 00:20.48 | Tem | awesome |
| 00:20.55 | Duman | someone posted this: |
| 00:20.55 | Duman | http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ownedbyroguebv3.jpg |
| 00:20.56 | Duman | heh |
| 00:21.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:21.54 | Corrodias | that seems like a lot of damage for a poison |
| 00:22.07 | Corrodias | maybe that's the point |
| 00:25.02 | Duman | asdflasdjflksjafd |
| 00:25.05 | Duman | now my client crashes |
| 00:32.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-22-0-105.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:33.38 | Duman | the server is AWESOME |
| 00:34.43 | Tekkub | that was scary |
| 00:34.50 | Tekkub | fel reaver noise... i Fjord |
| 00:34.52 | Tekkub | *in |
| 00:36.09 | sacarasc | heh |
| 00:36.18 | Tem | holy rollbacks batman |
| 00:36.54 | Tem | also, I seem to have connected to the world server before the mobs |
| 00:37.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn1 (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM00194757bc24.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:46.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash1 (n=Jamash@75-25-130-215.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:46.44 | Duman | sigh |
| 00:46.58 | Tem | yeah, I think I'm going to have to go do something else |
| 00:47.11 | Duman | so frustrating |
| 00:47.13 | Tem | the server hasn't been able to stay up for more than 10m |
| 00:47.19 | Syzgyn | WTB instance group |
| 00:47.26 | Duman | I'monly L75 |
| 00:48.42 | Tem | and I'm still only 73 |
| 00:48.52 | Syzgyn | Level faster! |
| 00:49.18 | Tekkub | <--- lv 71 |
| 00:49.30 | Tekkub | twice though |
| 00:50.12 | Syzgyn | Lvl 142? |
| 00:50.14 | Duman | I'd level faster if the server were up longer ;) |
| 00:50.20 | Duman | Level 42 ? |
| 00:51.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Gngsk (n=Gngsk@c-69-138-214-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:52.06 | Tekkub | I though we got 4 copies from the live realms? |
| 00:52.33 | kd3 | sigh... "hey <kd3>. Come help us feed our glorified lawn ornaments by moving 150 bails of hay". "uh... ok" |
| 00:54.16 | Duman | lol |
| 00:54.24 | Duman | tekkub: we did |
| 00:54.34 | Tekkub | did it change? |
| 00:54.40 | Duman | not that I know |
| 00:54.41 | Duman | I used all 4 |
| 00:54.46 | Duman | the last one just a couple days ago |
| 00:54.46 | Tekkub | I only used 2 |
| 00:54.50 | Duman | make sure you're using the right copy page |
| 00:54.53 | Duman | (there are 2) |
| 00:55.18 | Duman | https://beta.worldofwarcraft.com/charcopy/character-copy.html |
| 00:56.15 | Tekkub | oh those bastards |
| 00:56.33 | Tekkub | seriously, if your'e gonna split the page, get rid of the two sections |
| 00:56.41 | Tekkub | and fix the fucking links |
| 00:56.47 | Tekkub | I *thought* I was on the right page |
| 00:59.44 | kd3 | zomg; old news is old, but o_O; |
| 00:59.47 | kd3 | Also, note that with the wotlk patch you can completely eliminate resist chance through hit chance (you can overcome that final 1% resist chance). |
| 01:00.58 | Duman | lsakdjf l;askjdf l;jasdf |
| 01:01.09 | Duman | repeatedly |
| 01:01.20 | Tekkub | IMMUNE |
| 01:01.22 | Syzgyn | Fuck this, I'm done |
| 01:01.32 | kd3 | mmm... back to searching for low-level quests I missed |
| 01:01.34 | Duman | yeah, this is sort of horse ballish |
| 01:01.46 | Duman | is azeroth stable? |
| 01:01.59 | Duman | I should just do the exploration achievements |
| 01:02.10 | kd3 | EK's been iffy, kalimdor's been ok. or at least it was when I was last here (4ish hours ago) |
| 01:02.16 | Duman | hmm |
| 01:02.53 | Duman | the server is fine for like.. 5-10min |
| 01:02.57 | Duman | then it starts to lag |
| 01:02.58 | Tekkub | that's what I'll do! |
| 01:03.01 | Duman | and within 5m it explodes |
| 01:03.13 | Tekkub | go hit my tauren DK and get him a doggiemount |
| 01:03.19 | Duman | wuff |
| 01:03.46 | Corrodias | i have 2264 screenshots total |
| 01:04.03 | Tekkub | it's either that, write readmes for addons since I can't really work on them, or do "real" work |
| 01:04.05 | Corrodias | i'm surprised i played long enough to push the key that many times |
| 01:05.06 | Syzgyn | Real work is overrated |
| 01:08.22 | Duman | wow |
| 01:08.24 | Duman | that was short-lived |
| 01:08.44 | Tem | I just got a tell from a level 57 DK |
| 01:08.48 | Duman | corrodias: how long have you been playing? |
| 01:08.52 | Tem | "Why cant I regenerate any mana?" |
| 01:08.56 | Duman | tem: heh |
| 01:09.05 | Syzgyn | ./headdesk |
| 01:09.20 | Duman | just tell him it's rage :P |
| 01:09.31 | Tekkub | Tem, "Relog!" |
| 01:10.11 | Corrodias | i played for about 2 months initially, then 6 months later i rejoined and played for something over a year, taking a 2-month break just before BC |
| 01:10.31 | Corrodias | *except for taking |
| 01:11.27 | *** join/#wowuidev bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 01:12.53 | Corrodias | wait.. *reviews screenshot dates* |
| 01:13.17 | zenzelezz | let me guess, 2064 of those were of nude night elves dancing |
| 01:15.30 | Corrodias | november 2005 i started, and i quit at the end of january of 2006. then it looks like my next screenshot is from 08-10-2006 |
| 01:15.40 | Corrodias | no, mostly random shit showing what i was doing at the time |
| 01:17.08 | Corrodias | and my last shots are from 02-28-2008, during our last successful raid, when we killed Leo in SSC |
| 01:18.21 | Corrodias | add about 2 weeks of limping onto the end of that and i was out |
| 01:30.42 | Duman | SIGH |
| 01:30.50 | Tem | that time it lasted pretty long |
| 01:30.53 | Duman | tem: yeah |
| 01:31.05 | Duman | I was almost about to say "wow, server has been stable for a long time this time" |
| 01:31.07 | Tem | almost 20m, I think |
| 01:31.11 | Duman | but my thinking it jinxed it |
| 01:31.28 | Duman | I was actualyl filling out some feedback, too |
| 01:31.29 | kd3 | stop thinking, damn it! |
| 01:31.35 | Duman | and was like "I hope it doesn't crash on me" |
| 01:31.43 | Duman | and about 10s after I submitted it, *plink* |
| 01:31.44 | Duman | heh |
| 01:32.07 | Duman | hmm, I should fire up my old desktop and pull the screenshots off it |
| 01:32.21 | Duman | altho I think I stole the RAM from it for somethign else, hrm |
| 01:32.30 | Syzgyn | Fuuuuck me |
| 01:32.40 | Duman | syz: ? |
| 01:32.46 | Syzgyn | Beta is wonky all day, I get on live to do arena and our whole battlegroup goes down |
| 01:32.51 | Duman | LOL |
| 01:34.11 | Syzgyn | AND the lag made us lose to a freaking war/rogue team |
| 01:34.23 | sacarasc | yeah, the lag did that |
| 01:34.31 | Tem | he's war/dru |
| 01:34.35 | Tem | he can't lose to anything |
| 01:34.45 | Syzgyn | War/priest actually |
| 01:35.41 | Tem | whatever |
| 01:35.45 | Tem | war/healer is OP |
| 01:36.52 | Corrodias | */* is OP |
| 01:36.57 | Duman | heh |
| 01:37.19 | Syzgyn | my priest is pretty bad :( |
| 01:37.28 | Syzgyn | I'm not amazing either, but still |
| 01:45.23 | Tekkub | Stand back! Gamon will save us all! |
| 01:45.27 | Duman | haha |
| 01:45.33 | Duman | gamon dies every time I go to org |
| 01:45.36 | Duman | well, assuming he's alive |
| 01:45.46 | bleetah | gmon is xclnt for weapon sillups |
| 01:45.53 | bleetah | well, on my AH mule anyways |
| 01:45.54 | Tekkub | it's a horde rule, you have to kill him any time you see him |
| 01:45.59 | Duman | :) |
| 01:46.11 | bleetah | like fearing the rats outside SW AH |
| 01:51.44 | bleetah | happy father's day to all the aussie and kiwi dads :) |
| 02:00.22 | Industrial | Anyone play wow on a macbook? |
| 02:00.54 | Industrial | when I put it in fullscreen windowed mode and I move around spaces the textures ingame go all weird and displaced and flickery |
| 02:01.03 | Industrial | :( |
| 02:01.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@pD957D7DE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:01.24 | steev | fullscreen windowed? |
| 02:01.34 | Industrial | windowed maximized* |
| 02:02.00 | Industrial | if I put it in fullscreen I can no longer alt tab :P |
| 02:04.45 | Industrial | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/690fef5cf748f97f4c56f9d1c5f0ceea.jpeg |
| 02:04.47 | Industrial | steev: ^ |
| 02:05.24 | Industrial | quite anoying :p |
| 02:07.18 | Tem | new record for ttl? |
| 02:07.24 | Duman | YOU HAD TO SAY SOMETHING |
| 02:07.30 | Duman | lol |
| 02:08.37 | Industrial | ttl? |
| 02:08.44 | Duman | time to live? |
| 02:08.51 | Industrial | .. what? |
| 02:08.52 | Duman | (how long beta is staying up at a time) |
| 02:10.50 | Gnarfoz | so, US beta is unstable you say? |
| 02:10.54 | Syzgyn | Yea |
| 02:11.05 | Duman | heh, you could say that |
| 02:11.09 | Gnarfoz | well, blizz doesn't care about EU, etc. etc. |
| 02:11.10 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 02:11.13 | Gnarfoz | oh wait |
| 02:11.14 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 02:11.23 | Gnarfoz | EU actually works for a change |
| 02:11.43 | Gnarfoz | what annoys me more is that my keybindings don't stick. |
| 02:11.46 | Gnarfoz | VERY ANNOYING. |
| 02:13.18 | Duman | they stick for me |
| 02:13.29 | Duman | are you crashing or logging out? |
| 02:14.19 | Gnarfoz | crashing would be obvious ;) |
| 02:14.36 | Gnarfoz | I have both logged out normally and "World Server is down" disconnected |
| 02:14.46 | Gnarfoz | LibKeyBound bindings seem to stick |
| 02:14.47 | Gnarfoz | but |
| 02:14.50 | Duman | world server down is equivalent to crashing |
| 02:14.52 | Duman | oh |
| 02:14.53 | Gnarfoz | default bindings show up each time around |
| 02:14.56 | Gnarfoz | no it isn't |
| 02:15.08 | Gnarfoz | why would I get lag while wow writes its SVs :> |
| 02:15.24 | Gnarfoz | anyway, I have logged out normally, too |
| 02:15.27 | Gnarfoz | same thing :\ |
| 02:15.54 | Gnarfoz | as I only use BT4 and clique anyway, I should be fine once I figure out how to programmatically kill the keybindings that conflict with my [modifier] macros |
| 02:15.58 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 02:16.26 | Duman | I wonder if the premade realm is stable |
| 02:16.40 | *** join/#wowuidev bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 02:16.41 | Tem | doubt it |
| 02:16.51 | Gnarfoz | I wonder when we'll get a premade realm. |
| 02:16.51 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 02:17.08 | ScytheBlade1 | I really hope 95%+ of the new/existing optins go and play exclusively on the premade realm |
| 02:17.10 | Gnarfoz | there's live streaming of naxx raids, but those are people with leveled 80's :X |
| 02:17.15 | Duman | lol, can't even log into Murmer |
| 02:17.19 | Gnarfoz | ScytheBlade1: you wish :\ |
| 02:17.20 | bleetah | kd3: so when up, who exactly am I looking for? ;) |
| 02:17.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Simply so I can refrain from leaving general and trade |
| 02:17.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Gnarfoz: I DO! |
| 02:17.29 | Jamash1 | lol @ "murmer" |
| 02:17.34 | Jamash1 | blizz is speling gud |
| 02:17.45 | bleetah | Duman: I've respecced my murmer toons about 12 times this morning, all w/o visiting a trainer :/ |
| 02:17.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Jamash1: iirc it was the name of a 5 man boss in TBC, it's likely intentional |
| 02:18.02 | Gnarfoz | ... |
| 02:18.06 | Gnarfoz | that boss is called "Murmur" |
| 02:18.07 | Gnarfoz | ;) |
| 02:18.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm, isn't that how they spelled it on the forums? |
| 02:18.26 | Gnarfoz | srsly? it's a typo |
| 02:18.27 | bleetah | no, some blues spell it murmur |
| 02:18.29 | Gnarfoz | that's the point :P |
| 02:18.31 | Jamash1 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Murmur <-- korect speling |
| 02:18.34 | Tem | the boss name is Murmur |
| 02:18.37 | ScytheBlade1 | That's what I thought |
| 02:18.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm |
| 02:18.40 | bleetah | i think tigole spelt it murmur |
| 02:18.47 | Jamash1 | so yeah |
| 02:18.51 | ScytheBlade1 | I really thought the realm was "Murmur" :P |
| 02:19.09 | bleetah | the big downside I see is... |
| 02:19.11 | ScytheBlade1 | "Copies to the premade server, Murmur, are currently not working." |
| 02:19.21 | Jamash1 | I logged on last night and was like "what is wrong with this picture" |
| 02:19.26 | bleetah | when I get a tell 'pls help wif mumer' i can no longer say 'l2spell nub' :/ |
| 02:19.43 | Jamash1 | ok shower time |
| 02:21.16 | bleetah | annoying thing about murmer's restarts. at one stage I had realm first 80 tauren ... lost it in about 10 seconds tho :( |
| 02:23.37 | Industrial | its a beta, whats with the accomplishments :\ |
| 02:24.07 | bleetah | well yeah that's the annoying part :P |
| 02:24.17 | Industrial | prepare to qq at wipes. |
| 02:24.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (n=Thrae@96.244.5.80) |
| 02:26.39 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: you probably know this: when are keybindings "available"? |
| 02:27.24 | Duman | sigh |
| 02:27.40 | Gnarfoz | I've got an addon that is a collection of random small things, and I want to make it kill off the damn default keybindings that keep popping up every login. while the code I use works beautifully from /run ingame, it doesn't work when it's run from the addon :\ |
| 02:27.41 | Seerah | Gnarfoz: everything should be available at PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD - do you need it earlier?? |
| 02:27.59 | Gnarfoz | I'm reloading my UI, that should be way after PEW, right :\ |
| 02:28.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Gnarfoz: beta? |
| 02:28.27 | Seerah | no, PEW fires on reload |
| 02:28.28 | Gnarfoz | I mean, obviously the entire UI is reloaded, but does PEW even fire on reload? |
| 02:28.33 | Gnarfoz | ScytheBlade1: yes, beta :\ |
| 02:28.42 | Gnarfoz | I'll listen for PEW then |
| 02:28.46 | ScytheBlade1 | make sure you have the CVar set to sync to the server |
| 02:28.49 | Seerah | see the article "Events that fire during the loading process" on wowwiki |
| 02:29.03 | ScytheBlade1 | and/or simply call UploadSettings() once you've set the bindings as you please |
| 02:30.22 | ScytheBlade1 | That's actually how I setup my mage's bindings. Ran SetBindingSpell()/Macro()/Item() x893538 and then called SaveBindings(GetCurrentBindingSet()); UploadSettings(); |
| 02:30.55 | Gnarfoz | hmmm |
| 02:31.01 | Gnarfoz | what's that cvar called? |
| 02:31.16 | ScytheBlade1 | check the 3.0 sticky for it, I can't recall |
| 02:31.18 | Gnarfoz | I didn't touch it of course, but maybe my beta client is haunted |
| 02:31.33 | Gnarfoz | waiting for P_E_W doesn't help, apparently, btw :\ |
| 02:33.00 | Gnarfoz | oh, it does. I just shouldn't setscript something before defining the function I set to. ;D |
| 02:33.09 | ScytheBlade1 | ~fail Gnarfoz |
| 02:33.10 | purl | Gnarfoz: FAIL! |
| 02:33.23 | Gnarfoz | that's moderate. |
| 02:34.28 | Gnarfoz | synchronizeSettings = 1 |
| 02:35.41 | Gnarfoz | blizz forum software is fai :X |
| 02:35.42 | Gnarfoz | l |
| 02:35.47 | Gnarfoz | omg. |
| 02:51.13 | bleetah | Why do Humans get Human Supremacy for three(tm) racials but there's no Blood Elf Supremacy? Can Blood Elves (not) count either? |
| 02:51.57 | Corrodias | wut |
| 02:52.16 | bleetah | racial changes |
| 02:52.21 | Corrodias | oh, nm, nm |
| 03:09.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-76-238-10-185.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:18.03 | Syzgyn | ~failrik |
| 03:18.04 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 03:21.19 | *** kick/#wowuidev [Syzgyn!n=skullsho@conspiracy/developer/Shirik] by Shirik (FAIL, Syzgyn, FAIL!) |
| 03:21.34 | Corrodias | there has to be a utility that will tell you what EAX modes are available on your computer. |
| 03:21.39 | Corrodias | versions? whatever |
| 03:21.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Syzgyn (n=no@24-240-17-145.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 03:22.01 | Syzgyn | <3 shirik |
| 03:22.06 | Shirik | <3 |
| 03:22.57 | ScytheBlade1 | What is this blasphemy? |
| 03:24.07 | Syzgyn | Fine, <3 SBO too |
| 03:26.29 | ScytheBlade1 | better |
| 03:26.34 | ScytheBlade1 | But it needs more ~failrik |
| 03:27.05 | ScytheBlade1 | You know |
| 03:27.14 | ScytheBlade1 | There are not many channels out there that have custom fail commands |
| 03:27.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Pointed at those with a +o in the channel |
| 03:27.26 | ScytheBlade1 | I should consider myself privileged |
| 03:27.28 | ScytheBlade1 | ~failrik |
| 03:27.29 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 03:28.01 | |Jelly| | ~hug Shirik |
| 03:28.01 | purl | ACTION hugs Shirik tightly until Shirik turns slightly blue |
| 03:29.37 | Syzgyn | Anyone else using MSBT on the beta? |
| 03:40.42 | Yssaril | anyone know of a program/website where i can paste my lua code to and see if it will compile? so i dont have to check for drycode errors by reloading wow? |
| 03:41.46 | Kaso | why yes i do! |
| 03:41.55 | Neuro_Medivh | !!! Humans get Feign Death?!?!? |
| 03:41.57 | ccox | Yssaril - get an addon that defines a reload command, or bind /console reloadui to a key |
| 03:42.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-76-238-10-185.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:42.14 | Kaso | Yssaril, http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7366-WowLua.html |
| 03:42.24 | Kaso | oh wait |
| 03:42.26 | ccox | stand alone parsing won't catch a lot of errors, especially API errors |
| 03:42.26 | Kaso | wrong link |
| 03:42.40 | Kaso | http://luaforge.net/projects/lua-wow/ |
| 03:42.43 | Kaso | thats what you want ^ |
| 03:45.11 | Yssaril | alright downloaded and extracted now how do i use it :) |
| 03:46.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Aita (i=Aita@cpe-66-65-249-207.ne.res.rr.com) |
| 03:46.44 | Kaso | well, basically open a command line window, cd to the directory where lua-wow is and type "lua-wow.exe yourLuaFile.lua |
| 03:46.51 | Kaso | presuming the lua file is in the same directory |
| 03:46.59 | Kaso | or even |
| 03:47.05 | Kaso | luac-wow.exe |
| 03:47.14 | Kaso | luac-wow.exe will compile it and warn on errors |
| 03:47.30 | Kaso | lua-wow will allow you to do interactive testing |
| 03:48.02 | Kaso | but as ccox says, wow lua does not implement all the apis so it work work as a definitive test and you still need to test ingame by reloadingui |
| 03:49.39 | Yssaril | k cool |
| 03:50.22 | Gnarfoz | so did they remove the cold weather flying quest? or is the trainer option for 1k g just that, an option? |
| 03:52.13 | kd3 | I dunno |
| 03:52.27 | kd3 | I'll relevel my mage in the next build once they tie down some of the crash bugs |
| 03:54.31 | Gnarfoz | oO |
| 03:54.37 | Gnarfoz | I wish I had that kind of time |
| 03:54.52 | Gnarfoz | my pally is still 75, rogue 71 and my warlock 70.4 ;D |
| 04:04.08 | Duman | wtb stability |
| 04:04.39 | Syzgyn | Stop crashing the server Duman |
| 04:04.45 | Syzgyn | you're holding my tank hostage |
| 04:04.49 | Duman | I haven't logged in for like an hour! |
| 04:04.51 | Duman | haha |
| 04:04.56 | Syzgyn | A likely story! |
| 04:06.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Kyahx (n=Kyahx@74-44-9-44.dr01.cnfl.mn.frontiernet.net) |
| 04:08.46 | smcn | wtf is a frost "wrym" |
| 04:09.48 | kd3 | a misspelling of a frost wyrm? http://www.wowwiki.com/Frost_wyrm |
| 04:10.34 | bleetah | dyslexic wyrm |
| 04:11.54 | Duman | lysdexic |
| 04:13.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix1 (n=mattes@82.242.144.196) |
| 04:17.09 | smcn | server shutdown in 5:00 |
| 04:17.14 | smcn | huzza |
| 04:17.15 | smcn | h |
| 04:18.05 | Duman | lol |
| 04:18.06 | Duman | or now |
| 04:18.14 | Duman | figures as soon as I log it = shutdown |
| 04:18.20 | Sargeras | beta? |
| 04:18.24 | Duman | naturally :) |
| 04:18.29 | Sargeras | I just got booted |
| 04:18.32 | Sargeras | but I didnt see a message |
| 04:18.38 | smcn | heh i just alt-f4'd as soon as i saw it, just playing around with a lowbie DK |
| 04:18.39 | Sargeras | <-- Northrend |
| 04:18.46 | smcn | same |
| 04:18.51 | Duman | northrend here, too |
| 04:18.58 | Duman | got a 5min |
| 04:19.12 | Duman | then 4:45, 4:30... and after the 4:00 one it just crashed or they said 'fuggit' :) |
| 04:19.31 | Sargeras | ahh |
| 04:19.36 | smcn | they probably realized people aren't going to freak out if the server went down.. :P |
| 04:19.40 | Sargeras | then I guess I'll wait |
| 04:21.02 | Syzgyn | Fucking eh |
| 04:21.20 | Syzgyn | I finally get an instance group toether |
| 04:21.28 | Syzgyn | s/toether/together |
| 04:21.40 | Duman | heh |
| 04:21.42 | Syzgyn | and the server goes down |
| 04:21.48 | Duman | syz: murphy hates you |
| 04:21.56 | Duman | Dr. Murphy, that is |
| 04:22.11 | Syzgyn | murphy is me :P We have a very love/hate relationship |
| 04:22.13 | Duman | that's ok, I'm jsut watching bad boys 2 on tv |
| 04:22.18 | Duman | edit movies make me sad tho |
| 04:22.30 | Duman | edited* |
| 04:22.44 | Syzgyn | Heh, true dayt |
| 04:22.45 | Tekkub | oh noes, offline... hotfix? |
| 04:22.46 | Syzgyn | dat* |
| 04:22.52 | Duman | tekkub: one can hope |
| 04:22.52 | Syzgyn | We can only hope Tek |
| 04:23.11 | Tekkub | Syzgyn, no, we can bitch on internet forums too |
| 04:23.21 | Duman | yay internet bitching |
| 04:24.28 | Syzgyn | I'm reminded of that World of roguecraft video, where he goes through the forums with the sound of babies crying |
| 04:24.43 | Duman | hahahahha! |
| 04:24.59 | Syzgyn | Have you not seen that Duman? |
| 04:25.02 | Duman | you know, I actually get sad when I go back and watch pvP movies from like... pre-1.6 |
| 04:25.05 | Duman | of coruse |
| 04:25.17 | Duman | (especially pally vids) |
| 04:25.19 | Syzgyn | haha yeah |
| 04:25.34 | Syzgyn | Rogue wearing full druid T0 wtfowning people |
| 04:25.36 | Syzgyn | good times |
| 04:25.39 | Duman | hehe yeah |
| 04:25.54 | Duman | kd3 :) |
| 04:25.57 | Tekkub | oh they're changing racial resists to reduced chance to be hit, nice |
| 04:26.01 | Duman | that got hotfixed mighty quickly |
| 04:26.04 | Duman | well, s/hot// |
| 04:26.09 | Duman | since there was no "hotfix" then |
| 04:26.16 | Tekkub | and % so that it's actually useful beyond level 5 |
| 04:26.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Lonny` (n=Lonny@82.80.140.191) |
| 04:26.29 | Duman | yeah |
| 04:26.37 | Duman | they are alos REMOVING THE LAST 1% TO RESIST |
| 04:26.45 | Duman | that is, you can get enough +hit to overcome it entirely |
| 04:27.16 | Syzgyn | As a melee class, I say PAH to that |
| 04:27.17 | Tekkub | now they just need to drop weapon skills into a single stat :) |
| 04:27.20 | Duman | lich king up, other still down |
| 04:27.32 | Syzgyn | Did lich king even go down? |
| 04:27.35 | Duman | yeah |
| 04:27.41 | Duman | all 3 said 'offline' |
| 04:27.42 | Syzgyn | ah |
| 04:27.45 | Tekkub | they all went down... |
| 04:27.47 | Tekkub | on each other |
| 04:27.56 | Tekkub | but it was a quickie |
| 04:27.58 | Syzgyn | hawt |
| 04:28.07 | Duman | ReckBomb.avi |
| 04:28.14 | *** part/#wowuidev Lonny` (n=Lonny@82.80.140.191) |
| 04:28.15 | Duman | omg obsidian edges blade |
| 04:28.19 | Duman | edged |
| 04:28.25 | Tekkub | rawrbomb >> allotherbombs |
| 04:28.41 | Syzgyn | Lemme see if I can find the vid of kazzak getting kited to SW |
| 04:28.54 | kd3 | 2005-03-06 |
| 04:28.57 | Duman | yeah I was just watching that one |
| 04:29.01 | Syzgyn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abmbObP02IE |
| 04:29.02 | kd3 | good god. is that really 3 and a half years old? |
| 04:29.05 | Duman | "Kazzak-vs-SW.avi" |
| 04:29.08 | Syzgyn | That happened on my server Duman :) |
| 04:29.12 | Duman | haha nice |
| 04:29.34 | Tekkub | azuregos or whatever his name is in orgy is better! |
| 04:29.38 | Duman | oooh, Jamaz pvp vids |
| 04:29.40 | Duman | here we go |
| 04:30.09 | Duman | man, so weird looked at Hp levels of "4991" |
| 04:30.13 | Syzgyn | haha |
| 04:30.14 | Tekkub | Night Elf - Nature Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Nature spells by 3% |
| 04:30.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Lonny` (n=Lonny@82.80.140.191) |
| 04:30.17 | Tekkub | Tauren - Nature Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Nature spells by 2% |
| 04:30.19 | Tekkub | what? |
| 04:30.24 | *** part/#wowuidev Lonny` (n=Lonny@82.80.140.191) |
| 04:30.26 | Duman | tek: balance for other racials |
| 04:30.30 | Duman | warstomp = op :) |
| 04:30.35 | Syzgyn | OMG SHADOWMELD |
| 04:30.44 | Tekkub | lies! |
| 04:30.47 | Duman | omg old hunter's mark arrow |
| 04:30.51 | Syzgyn | haha |
| 04:31.12 | Tekkub | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:31.15 | Tekkub | \ / |
| 04:31.19 | Duman | hehe |
| 04:31.21 | Duman | pretty much |
| 04:31.22 | Tekkub | *bounce* |
| 04:31.27 | Arrowmaster | check out the bloodelf ones |
| 04:31.53 | Tekkub | belf racial was always kinda too much work |
| 04:32.12 | Duman | yeah |
| 04:32.15 | Tekkub | everyone else gets this one-click, belfs it's liek pump pump pump explode |
| 04:32.26 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@adsl-76-238-10-185.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:32.36 | Arrowmaster | i ment the 2% resist all spells |
| 04:32.37 | |Yssaril| | is there an event that i can check for to see if can start sending things thru the addon comm channels or does that start working right away? |
| 04:32.52 | Syzgyn | Northrend back up |
| 04:32.59 | kd3 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9679399328&postId=96785384427&sid=2000#0 |
| 04:33.04 | Tekkub | Yssaril, wait till PLAYER_LOGIN? |
| 04:33.53 | Duman | kd3: yeah I wonder what the class call is |
| 04:33.54 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: so much win |
| 04:35.08 | Tekkub | ^^ |
| 04:37.10 | Tekkub | new gem icons! thank god I was gonna be pissed if they used the old art |
| 04:37.29 | Tekkub | WTB new art for Eternals |
| 04:38.36 | Tekkub | they should make the glyph icons use raid class colors |
| 04:39.05 | |Yssaril| | Tekkub: will player_login fire for LoD addons? |
| 04:39.19 | Tekkub | use ADDON_LOADED if you're LoDing |
| 04:39.56 | ScytheBlade1 | |Yssaril|: events that fire are 100% unrelated to what the addons are doing. (No.) |
| 04:39.59 | Tekkub | though you can probably just go any time unless you need your savedvars |
| 04:40.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Lonny[il (n=Lonny@82.80.140.191) |
| 04:40.45 | |Yssaril| | want to send a comm message as soon as i can or will this work right away? |
| 04:41.07 | Tekkub | main question is, why? |
| 04:41.09 | Shirik | I wouldn't advise trying to send comm messages before PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD |
| 04:41.27 | Tekkub | like I said, PLAYER_LOGIN :P |
| 04:42.22 | |Yssaril| | so wait till addon_loaded see if normal chat channels are present if not wait till player login? |
| 04:42.41 | Tekkub | if you don't LoD, use PL |
| 04:42.49 | *** join/#wowuidev kaugummi (n=kaugummi@2002:5091:f625:55f:20d:93ff:fe87:d832) |
| 04:42.58 | Tekkub | if you do LoD, either just fire or wait to AL if you need savedvars |
| 04:48.28 | smcn | :( |
| 04:48.28 | Duman | GAH |
| 04:48.44 | smcn | it was nice and non-laggy for about 10 minutes too |
| 04:48.47 | Duman | yeah |
| 04:49.04 | Syzgyn | I blame Duman... again |
| 04:49.27 | Syzgyn | ~whalenuke Duman |
| 04:49.28 | purl | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around Duman with his mind powers. |
| 04:49.42 | Duman | lol |
| 04:50.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley` (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 04:50.05 | Syzgyn | Thats one of like 3 perl commands I can ever remember :P |
| 04:52.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley` (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 04:52.57 | Syzgyn | Dear god long ass load times |
| 04:54.26 | Cide | it's 'purl', not 'perl' for god's sake |
| 04:54.30 | Cide | never say perl again |
| 04:54.39 | Shirik | perl is evil |
| 04:54.49 | Tekkub | pirl |
| 04:55.53 | Syzgyn | Yea, I caught my typo but was too lazy to fix it |
| 04:58.07 | Tekkub | so is the server fixed now? I'm over in Kally which wasn't crashing |
| 05:04.03 | *** join/#wowuidev kaugummi (n=kaugummi@2002:5091:ba8a:55f:20d:93ff:fe87:d832) |
| 05:09.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabies2 (n=Mr_Rabie@adsl-066-156-082-132.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:15.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Jagannath (i=Jagannat@adsl-75-49-47-165.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:18.44 | Duman | noooooooOOOOOOOooooooooooo |
| 05:18.57 | Duman | I just pulled like 8 mobs too, lol |
| 05:31.40 | Shirik | is root a member of "users"? |
| 05:31.51 | Shirik | That is, if I set a security restriction on users, will it apply to root? |
| 05:35.22 | Diao | don't think so |
| 05:35.51 | Shirik | .... |
| 05:35.53 | Shirik | I fail so much |
| 05:36.00 | Shirik | like, this is ultimate fail |
| 05:36.09 | Shirik | this is why I will never be a sys admin |
| 05:36.40 | Duman | ker-pow |
| 05:37.05 | Shirik | I set up some new limits just now to test to see if I block fork bombs |
| 05:37.14 | Shirik | Forgot to log out of root before testing >.> |
| 05:37.34 | Diao | why are you logged in as root anyway :p |
| 05:37.36 | Shirik | and this was after I asked |
| 05:37.42 | Shirik | Had to modify /etc/security/limits.conf? |
| 05:37.46 | Diao | su it? |
| 05:37.56 | Shirik | sudo? |
| 05:38.16 | Shirik | sudo does not exist on gentoo |
| 05:38.23 | Diao | su |
| 05:38.31 | Diao | not sudo |
| 05:38.32 | Shirik | obviously |
| 05:38.35 | Duman | lol |
| 05:38.36 | Shirik | su root |
| 05:38.38 | Shirik | vim |
| 05:38.43 | Shirik | still root until I hit exit... |
| 05:38.49 | Diao | yeah |
| 05:38.56 | Shirik | the exit part was what was missing |
| 05:38.57 | Diao | test it in another terminal that's not su'd |
| 05:38.59 | Diao | :p |
| 05:39.05 | Duman | heh |
| 05:39.33 | Duman | root is generally exempt from all limits |
| 05:40.42 | Shirik | crap, I might have to file a support ticket for this |
| 05:40.57 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1! |
| 05:42.12 | Shirik | oh, it did restart |
| 05:42.12 | Shirik | yay |
| 05:42.43 | Shirik | I like it when servers talk to themselves... |
| 05:42.44 | Shirik | * Starting mysql ... |
| 05:42.44 | Shirik | * Strange, the socket file already exist in "/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock" |
| 05:42.44 | Shirik | * it will be removed now and re-created by the MySQL server |
| 05:56.28 | Shirik | Cairenn's #1 |
| 06:02.48 | Wobin | oooh |
| 06:02.50 | Wobin | http://www.funkyhorror.net/tchernobyl/pets.jpg |
| 06:02.55 | Wobin | Omen model =) |
| 06:05.08 | Sixen | Rpf; |
| 06:05.10 | Sixen | Rofl* |
| 06:06.01 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-33-223.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:08.43 | Wobin | good ol' Kurken =) |
| 06:09.14 | Corrodias | now tame an enemy druid and you'll have the gold |
| 06:09.55 | Wobin | hehe |
| 06:10.16 | Wobin | "Renting out opposite faction druids for eyes of the beasting off cliffs! 20g a pop!" |
| 06:12.51 | Corrodias | i was worried that FEAR might not be creepy enough, now that i have played it before |
| 06:13.06 | Corrodias | buuut... no |
| 06:16.00 | Duman | ARGH |
| 06:18.43 | Wobin | no |
| 06:18.45 | Wobin | that's not softly |
| 06:33.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn1 (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM00194757bc24.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 06:36.29 | Duman | sigh |
| 06:36.36 | Tekkub | is it safe? |
| 06:36.42 | Duman | negative, houston |
| 06:39.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Aita (n=no@cpe-66-65-249-207.ne.res.rr.com) |
| 06:40.41 | Tekkub | so I'm thinking I should split the gem cutting stuff off of Panda into it's own addon |
| 06:40.55 | Tekkub | and add Glyphs, and maybe other professions |
| 06:40.58 | Tekkub | but I need a name... |
| 06:42.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Diskmaster (n=YOURFACE@CPE-76-85-147-197.neb.res.rr.com) |
| 06:56.04 | Wobin | or have separate ones for each? |
| 06:57.17 | Tekkub | huh? |
| 06:57.37 | bleetah | mmmm coffee flavoured porridge |
| 06:57.56 | smcn | mmm baconated grapefruit |
| 07:19.31 | Duman | LOL |
| 07:26.47 | smcn | so i rolled a brand new DK, and for some reason i have 15% melee damage increase on my character screen but i'm not specced for anything that would grant me it |
| 07:27.56 | NightHawkTheSane | smcn: blood presence? |
| 07:28.14 | smcn | oh yes of course |
| 07:28.28 | smcn | thank you for pointing out my stupidity |
| 07:28.34 | NightHawkTheSane | my pleasure. |
| 07:28.48 | ccox | Hmm, Lich King mail system is broken - was working 5 minutes ago |
| 07:29.12 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:29.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (i=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 07:31.36 | smcn | so is northrend stable on northrend yet? that's why i rolled this dk, but now of course there's ridiculous lag in HFP |
| 07:32.05 | Duman | lagged into infinity right now |
| 07:32.09 | Duman | (inventory actions = 100% lag) |
| 07:32.16 | smcn | indubitably |
| 07:33.56 | ccox | Lich King - folks in Dalran and UC say things are acting weird / lagged |
| 07:34.35 | nevcairiel | same on EU realm |
| 07:34.47 | nevcairiel | started lagging like hell a few minutes ago |
| 07:34.57 | nevcairiel | was absolutely fine before that |
| 07:35.00 | ccox | weird that 2 or 3 servers would be hosed at the same time |
| 07:35.10 | ccox | I see a server restart in our immediate future |
| 07:35.20 | ccox | oh @#%@#%@#%, I can't logout |
| 07:35.58 | Syzgyn | I'm stuck at a full loading bar D: |
| 07:36.29 | Syzgyn | Duman: is Pazrael still in the instance? |
| 07:37.49 | Duman | yeah |
| 07:37.54 | Duman | but the server is hozed |
| 07:37.56 | Duman | they can't loot |
| 07:38.06 | ccox | force quit, then logged in again - stuck at full progress bar |
| 07:38.20 | Syzgyn | ccox: same here |
| 07:38.50 | Sargeras | I cant move and stuck on the boat |
| 07:38.57 | ccox | lich king and northrend servers are FUBAR |
| 07:39.01 | Syzgyn | Can you let Paz know I'm just gonna call it for the night |
| 07:39.22 | ccox | even murmur won't let me log in (and it's barely populated) |
| 07:39.41 | Duman | syz: k |
| 07:39.48 | Duman | oh |
| 07:39.51 | Duman | it jsut booted everyone |
| 07:39.57 | Syzgyn | ahh |
| 07:40.19 | ccox | somewhere near bliz HQ, some server admin is cursing up a storm right now |
| 07:40.45 | ccox | and their wife probably isn't too happy about the blackberry alarm going off |
| 07:40.53 | Duman | hahah |
| 07:40.58 | Duman | true dat |
| 07:41.25 | Syzgyn | More like, somewhere in india, some server admin is cursing up a storm |
| 07:43.29 | Syzgyn | Yeap, enough waiting for the server. Night all |
| 07:43.43 | ccox | if they're in india, that explains much of the problems... |
| 07:43.53 | Duman | later syz |
| 07:48.28 | Duman | I give up, too |
| 07:48.30 | Duman | night |
| 07:48.33 | nevcairiel | night |
| 07:51.03 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (n=ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 08:00.38 | *** join/#wowuidev [SW]Dodge (n=Miranda@p5B00A0CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:01.09 | [SW]Dodge | g'morning all :) |
| 08:03.42 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@cpc3-oxfd7-0-0-cust275.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 08:13.33 | Cairenn1 | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18083 |
| 08:13.40 | Cairenn1 | war.mmoui.com now open |
| 08:14.49 | Duman | word |
| 08:14.54 | Duman | I'm in the WAR open beta, too :) |
| 08:15.03 | Duman | glad they are using lua |
| 08:16.43 | smcn | heh, looks like you linked to the .png :P |
| 08:16.52 | smcn | oh nevermind |
| 08:16.54 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn1, the beta started, where are the addons!!! |
| 08:16.57 | smcn | wow i'm on a roll of stupidity tonight |
| 08:17.09 | haste | clearly a scam! war.mmoui.com _and_ Cairenn_1_ |
| 08:17.12 | haste | \:D/ |
| 08:17.13 | smcn | Thunder_Child: war.curse.com ;) |
| 08:17.15 | Duman | hehe |
| 08:17.27 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@i209133.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 08:17.28 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MoonWolf] by ChanServ |
| 08:18.02 | Thunder_Child | i wonder how similar the API's are |
| 08:19.13 | Duman | what, no warwiki.com !? |
| 08:19.14 | Duman | ;) |
| 08:19.29 | haste | Thunder_Child: it was like wow without metatables at least |
| 08:19.30 | Thunder_Child | wardb.com |
| 08:19.41 | haste | no idea if it has changed since I looked over it |
| 08:19.48 | Duman | ahh |
| 08:20.03 | Thunder_Child | haste, i mean can you simply s/// the API's |
| 08:20.03 | smcn | http://thewarwiki.com/wiki/WAR_API |
| 08:20.17 | haste | Thunder_Child: no, not really :p |
| 08:20.35 | Thunder_Child | oh well, but it would have been amusing |
| 08:23.43 | Duman | hmm http://thewarwiki.com/wiki/API:Event_List |
| 08:25.29 | Thunder_Child | i wonder if you can have addons that changes things at the logon screen then |
| 08:28.14 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn, is wowi and wari two seperate sites? |
| 08:29.34 | [SW]Dodge | Thunder_Child: i think yes as all ...i sites are diffrent sites but from the same "network" |
| 08:29.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c222165.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:29.59 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* wtb shared UN/PW |
| 08:30.16 | [SW]Dodge | Thunder_Child: if you check in wowi at the bottom the part "The Network" |
| 08:30.23 | smcn | QQ, logging onto my DK in hfp leaves me stalled with a full progress bar |
| 08:30.26 | [SW]Dodge | un/pw could be the same :> |
| 08:30.37 | smcn | snot |
| 08:30.59 | Thunder_Child | yes, but it also means i have to purchase two premium packages |
| 08:31.20 | Thunder_Child | but i am a simple starving student |
| 08:32.31 | [SW]Dodge | Thunder_Child: i think at least you dont need to get a second premium package, but for that you should hope to get an answer from Cairenn ;) |
| 08:33.21 | Cairenn1 | you don't need a new subscription, just put in your existing info |
| 08:33.26 | Cairenn1 | it's valid for all of our sites |
| 08:33.52 | smcn | i couldn't log in as smcn and was able to make a new account so... |
| 08:34.10 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn1, any particular reason it's not a shared login DB? |
| 08:34.27 | Cairenn1 | two different things .... *premium membership* != account login |
| 08:34.35 | smcn | roger |
| 08:34.37 | Thunder_Child | i know |
| 08:34.39 | Cairenn1 | Thunder_Child: talk to Dolby |
| 08:34.43 | Thunder_Child | ok |
| 08:35.11 | Cairenn1 | yes, you have to create a new account, we don't have them shared across the sites, but no, you don't need another premium membership, if you have it, you have it |
| 08:35.18 | Cairenn1 | you just put in your info again |
| 08:37.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 08:43.32 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn1, is there no longer the ability to change our custom user title? |
| 08:43.43 | Cairenn1 | you should be able to |
| 08:44.04 | Thunder_Child | i dont see the option |
| 08:44.06 | Cairenn1 | hang on, I'll find out what I set wrong |
| 08:51.08 | Cairenn1 | Thunder_Child: fixed |
| 08:51.25 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn1, weeee, ty |
| 08:51.35 | Cairenn1 | thank Dolby, he got to it before me |
| 08:51.58 | Thunder_Child | is he stealth channel listening? |
| 08:52.07 | Cairenn1 | heh |
| 08:52.18 | Thunder_Child | ~lart Dolby |
| 08:52.18 | purl | overclocks Dolby until Dolby burns out |
| 08:52.26 | Cairenn1 | NOOOOO |
| 08:52.31 | Cairenn1 | no burning out the Dolby |
| 08:52.39 | Dolby | lol |
| 08:52.44 | Thunder_Child | should have used a heat sink |
| 08:52.58 | Dolby | liquid cooled |
| 08:53.02 | Dolby | with diet coke |
| 08:53.27 | Thunder_Child | pfft, thats not liquid |
| 08:54.26 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@cpc3-oxfd7-0-0-cust275.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 08:56.34 | *** join/#wowuidev rufus__ (n=rufus@c-98-226-41-174.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 08:57.14 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* if it's not one games beta servers crashing it's another |
| 08:57.31 | Cairenn1 | heh |
| 08:57.45 | hardw1re | anyone know where there is a list that shows the sexes and relates the ingame sex id to it? |
| 08:57.58 | Thrae | Thunder_Child: OB hasn't started yet, give Mythic a break |
| 08:58.08 | Thunder_Child | Thrae, yes it has |
| 08:58.30 | Thrae | Thunder_Child: Should be 7am GMT-5 |
| 08:58.39 | Thunder_Child | Thrae, i was just playing |
| 08:58.43 | Thunder_Child | kicked me off |
| 08:58.45 | Thunder_Child | :( |
| 08:58.47 | Thrae | So was I, but I don't think that was OB |
| 08:58.57 | Thunder_Child | they called it another "preview weekend" |
| 08:59.09 | Thrae | The release notes said "Preview Weekend Plus...in preperation for Open Beta..." |
| 08:59.32 | Thrae | So I think it's either a mistake we can login, or we could have logged in earlier and just never tried |
| 08:59.49 | Thunder_Child | so ~10 hours of of a preview weekend before OB? |
| 08:59.51 | Thunder_Child | seems kinda odd |
| 09:00.02 | Thrae | More likely it's just a mistake on their part |
| 09:00.21 | Thrae | 10 hours would put them above 9-7-08 |
| 09:01.17 | hardw1re | hmm i cant even login to wow right now |
| 09:01.18 | Thunder_Child | this was working starting ~9 pm pst right? |
| 09:01.28 | Thunder_Child | s/this/war beta/ |
| 09:03.04 | Thunder_Child | hardw1re, http://www.wowwiki.com/API_UnitSex ? |
| 09:03.24 | haste | Dolby: why does the footer on wowi have a 400px inline height style? |
| 09:03.26 | hardw1re | cheers |
| 09:11.19 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
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| 09:18.45 | *** join/#wowuidev dabujo (i=xx@p4FDB32E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:22.16 | Tekkub | ah the infinate loging progress bar |
| 09:24.51 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=whhao198@24.213.94.165) |
| 09:49.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (n=Ycarene@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 09:55.34 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouseanother (i=digmouse@121.229.139.75) |
| 09:56.56 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (i=digmouse@121.229.139.75) |
| 09:58.07 | *** topic/#WoWUIDev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 2.4.x ToC: 20400 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | BlizzCon UI Community Tentative Schedule: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17443 | "Do you think it's really wise to allow a woman with severe PMS to have access to a semi-automatic handgun?!" |
| 10:00.43 | Corgan | howru |
| 10:00.49 | Cairenn | pretty good, you? |
| 10:01.08 | Corgan | I'm good |
| 10:01.17 | Cairenn | :) |
| 10:01.34 | Corgan | I went to see my gf today, and ended up racing her mom in the pool |
| 10:01.44 | Corgan | (her mom qualified for olympic swim team) |
| 10:01.51 | Cairenn | nice! |
| 10:01.52 | Corgan | (in college) |
| 10:01.59 | Corgan | I beat her, but just barely |
| 10:01.59 | Corgan | lol |
| 10:02.16 | Corgan | she was fast ._. |
| 10:02.26 | Cairenn | I'd imagine |
| 10:04.38 | bleeter | Cairenn: depends which way the gun is gunna end up pointing... i can see situations where it'd be useful ;) |
| 10:04.53 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 10:05.15 | bleeter | i'd still be the one in the bulletproof car wearing kevlar n stuff |
| 10:05.33 | Cairenn | I was listening to a stand up comedienne, that was (part of) one of her routines |
| 10:05.39 | Cairenn | it amused me |
| 10:08.05 | Cairenn | hubby: "Hey honey, what's for supper?" wife: "POW" cop: "What happened?" wife: "I dunno, I was just standing here, then all of a sudden, I dunno ... I thought to myself, 'hey, I'm bleeding, why shouldn't he be too?' " |
| 10:08.45 | Corgan | lol |
| 10:08.58 | wereHamster | men are bleeding money, so the wives can afford all the shoes |
| 10:09.20 | *** kick/#WoWUIDev [wereHamster!n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn] by Cairenn (Cairenn) |
| 10:10.28 | *** join/#wowuidev wereHamster (n=tomc@dbservice.com) |
| 10:11.38 | Tekkub | anyone else getting stuck at 100 login progress and never actually logging in? |
| 10:11.59 | nevcairiel | yup |
| 10:12.27 | *** part/#wowuidev Keias (n=Dave@c-69-245-192-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 10:13.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 10:13.24 | wereHamster | Cairenn: don't you live in canada? I just found 10 canadian cents lying on my table. |
| 10:13.33 | Cairenn | wereHamster: I do |
| 10:14.03 | Tekkub | damnit I accidentally close sexchat and didn't see if anyone replied |
| 10:14.09 | Tekkub | not that I expect they did |
| 10:15.02 | wereHamster | I guess its leftover from when my brother was in canada :) But that's been at least seven years now. |
| 10:15.44 | Cairenn | lol |
| 10:16.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Vangual (n=bah@84-73-127-44.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:17.44 | wereHamster | I also have 21 american dollars here, but they are worth less then the 10 canadian cents now, aren't they? |
| 10:18.02 | Corgan | I have a few 2$ coins from my last visit |
| 10:19.24 | Cairenn | there's no such thing |
| 10:19.35 | Cairenn | oh, duh, sorry, ignore me |
| 10:20.28 | Cairenn | you put $, I saw ¢ |
| 10:21.39 | *** join/#wowuidev [dRaCo] (n=drc@p5B228C58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:30.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-157-18-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 10:30.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Fatalis[AFK] (n=fatalis@68-188-76-94.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 10:31.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Mera (n=ecarlat@69.244.203-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 10:32.39 | Corgan | ;D |
| 10:32.44 | Corgan | I was going to say |
| 10:32.48 | Corgan | WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CAIRENN |
| 10:32.54 | Corgan | I used to live there too you know! |
| 10:32.59 | Cairenn | heh |
| 10:33.21 | Corgan | Born in BC |
| 10:33.22 | Corgan | ;D |
| 10:33.28 | wereHamster | burning crusade? |
| 10:33.35 | wereHamster | ge, you must be addicted |
| 10:33.40 | Cairenn | lol |
| 10:33.42 | Corgan | ._. |
| 10:33.43 | Corgan | lol |
| 10:33.56 | Adys | Born in BC, dies in wotlk |
| 10:33.59 | Adys | wish you well Corgan |
| 10:34.01 | Corgan | die adys |
| 10:34.16 | Adys | on it |
| 10:34.42 | Corgan | k |
| 10:34.47 | Corgan | let me know how it goes |
| 10:35.02 | Adys | so you're ready for release? |
| 10:35.18 | Corgan | I'm ready for you ;D |
| 10:46.22 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@cm-84.215.134.225.getinternet.no) |
| 10:47.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 10:47.56 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
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| 10:55.59 | starlon | I'm ready for stability. |
| 11:00.46 | Cairenn | you're in completely the wrong place then, I'm pretty sure no one in here is particularly stable ;) |
| 11:01.28 | starlon | Oh I'm not saying I'm stable. |
| 11:01.33 | Cairenn | *grin* |
| 11:01.51 | starlon | My sleeping habits stand as proof of that. |
| 11:01.58 | Cairenn | tell me about it |
| 11:02.04 | Cairenn | :p |
| 11:04.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 11:05.57 | digmouse | 8905 wont save video settings? |
| 11:06.32 | digmouse | it reverts to default everytime I login |
| 11:06.37 | starlon | It won't save uiscale settings that's for sure. |
| 11:06.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Lyn (n=Lyn@Le407.l.pppool.de) |
| 11:07.10 | Stanzilla | same here, digmouse :( |
| 11:07.26 | starlon | You can't set it in Config.wtf either. It gets removed. |
| 11:07.58 | starlon | But you can set them from an addon. |
| 11:08.26 | digmouse | starlon: what addon? |
| 11:09.01 | starlon | none that I know of. I wrote one for uiscale though. 2 lines |
| 11:09.22 | digmouse | I'll use a macro every time logging in |
| 11:09.52 | starlon | This gets around having to rearrange the UI everytime I log in. |
| 11:10.58 | starlon | (Although I haven't been able to log in much lately) |
| 11:11.38 | *** join/#wowuidev ag` (n=ag`@89.150.189.251) |
| 11:12.29 | digmouse | AND!! no mount in capital city again! |
| 11:12.44 | digmouse | and not rest in capital city wtf |
| 11:12.47 | starlon | Oh this is not the first time? |
| 11:13.07 | digmouse | yeah again |
| 11:13.15 | nevcairiel | worked for me yesterday |
| 11:13.17 | starlon | You can mount in the harbor in SW |
| 11:13.28 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:13.28 | digmouse | but not in IF wtf |
| 11:13.32 | starlon | I don't know how much of SW you can travel through |
| 11:13.57 | starlon | s/through/through mounted/ |
| 11:14.03 | digmouse | and u cant log out instantly in FI |
| 11:14.05 | digmouse | *IF |
| 11:14.30 | starlon | You're actually logged in right now? |
| 11:14.34 | starlon | Which realm? |
| 11:15.06 | digmouse | Murmer |
| 11:15.12 | starlon | Ah |
| 11:15.31 | digmouse | didnt try northrend and LK yet |
| 11:15.39 | starlon | Something has Northrend unstable |
| 11:16.47 | digmouse | Storm Peak and Ice Crown disabled |
| 11:16.47 | digmouse | I've been teleported 2 times.. |
| 11:19.35 | *** join/#wowuidev cheesepls (n=chatzill@82-37-196-68.cable.ubr05.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:21.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 11:26.33 | Nom- | Beta servers R fubar |
| 11:26.34 | Nom- | ? |
| 11:29.16 | starlon | You could say that. |
| 11:30.16 | Nom- | oo finally got into NR |
| 11:31.09 | starlon | I'm still sitting at the blue bar. |
| 11:31.58 | Nom- | oh i mean i just got into the character selection :P |
| 11:32.00 | Nom- | trying to log in no |
| 11:32.01 | Nom- | *now |
| 11:32.09 | starlon | ah :) |
| 11:32.27 | Nom- | Looks like it might be time to go farm mats on live for levelling inscription |
| 11:32.58 | starlon | I need to buy up mats for blacksmithing |
| 11:33.09 | starlon | I'll be dropping leatherworking for that. |
| 11:33.26 | Nom- | I've got a 375 BS on live :) |
| 11:33.48 | Nom- | It's expensive to level, I tell ya |
| 11:34.04 | starlon | I was engineering/mining, dropped mining for LW. |
| 11:34.10 | starlon | for drums |
| 11:34.13 | Nom- | heh |
| 11:34.24 | Nom- | i actually farmed all the mats i need to level BS up 'til 350 |
| 11:34.36 | Nom- | I did 1-300 in like 1 day |
| 11:35.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 11:46.11 | cbreak | hmm... WoW passwords are case insensitive |
| 11:46.23 | cbreak | I was able to log in to my account with a wrong password because of that :/ |
| 11:49.12 | foxlit | but is it really still wrong if they're case insensitive? |
| 11:51.02 | cbreak | yes, because I can use about 32768 passwords to log in instead of one. |
| 11:52.16 | foxlit | but technically, all of them are "correct" |
| 11:52.31 | cbreak | but only one of them is the right password. |
| 11:52.49 | cbreak | the others might be correct, but they are not my password. |
| 11:52.55 | foxlit | Not as far as wow is concerned :) |
| 11:53.06 | cbreak | yes, that's the unfortunate thing. |
| 11:53.18 | cbreak | I wonder if blizz uses hashing for pw transfer |
| 11:54.25 | foxlit | Your password is never sent anywhere |
| 11:54.38 | foxlit | (by the wow client) |
| 11:55.16 | nevcairiel | The server sends you a hash to compare? or what? |
| 11:55.24 | cbreak | they will have to send either a hash or the cleartext to the server |
| 11:55.34 | cbreak | or something similar to a hash, maybe a MAC |
| 11:55.54 | foxlit | ~logs |
| 11:55.55 | purl | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. |
| 11:56.30 | cbreak | a MAC would prevent replay attacks I guess |
| 11:57.05 | nevcairiel | Isnt login based on some public-key algorithm or so? |
| 11:57.11 | nevcairiel | (which even is open source) |
| 11:57.57 | cbreak | hmm... no idea. but it would be nice :) |
| 11:58.03 | foxlit | purl logs are useless :( |
| 11:58.04 | purl | ...but logs is already something else... |
| 11:58.12 | clad|sleep | haha |
| 11:58.26 | cbreak | they still have to send the password or something derived from it to the server |
| 11:58.43 | cbreak | if they would test authenticity on the client, wow's security would be seriously broken |
| 11:58.59 | foxlit | "foxlit: Your password is never sent anywhere" |
| 12:00.07 | foxlit | It's possible to build a challenge/response algorithm whereby you could certify that you know a common secret to someone else, without ever revealing what the secret is |
| 12:01.28 | foxlit | point is, it's in #wowwiki logs |
| 12:01.58 | foxlit | The only real problem is that those aren't really searchable in a nice way :) |
| 12:04.14 | Vangual | the only curse with challenge/response auth is that the server has to know the secret fully and you have to store it in a reversible format :/ |
| 12:05.01 | wereHamster | no, it doesn't have to be in a reversible format |
| 12:05.35 | Vangual | how would you generate random challenges over seomthing you only have a hash of? |
| 12:06.04 | Arrowmaster | dont worry im fairly certain that theres only wow keyloggers and not worms that sniff wow traffic for passwords not because of the difficulty of extracting a password from the network traffic but because of the difficulty of actually monitoring the network traffic |
| 12:06.05 | wereHamster | the ssh server doesn't know my plaintext password, and it still allows me to log in |
| 12:07.45 | Arrowmaster | Vangual: server sends a randon salt to be used, client hashes password with salt and sends it back to server |
| 12:08.15 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: then the server couldn't compare the result with what it has stored |
| 12:08.35 | Legorol | without having the full password |
| 12:08.37 | wereHamster | sure, the server has hash(your_password + salt) |
| 12:08.38 | Vangual | and the server does what? compare the client's response with the random salt against a prgenerated hash value with a different salt? |
| 12:08.40 | Arrowmaster | oh im fairly certain they store the actual password and not a hash of it |
| 12:08.50 | Legorol | wereHamster: no it doesn't, if it only has a hashed versin of your pw |
| 12:09.06 | Legorol | <Vangual> how would you generate random challenges over seomthing you only have a hash of? <= this sounds right to me |
| 12:09.22 | wereHamster | it works and it's fairly safe I assume. So what exactly are we arguing about? |
| 12:09.33 | Legorol | whether the server stores your actual pw |
| 12:09.38 | Arrowmaster | ssh is completely different |
| 12:09.44 | foxlit | just make the secret the hash of your password |
| 12:09.53 | foxlit | client can hash user's input |
| 12:10.01 | Legorol | foxlit: sure, you can do that, but then you haven't achieved anything |
| 12:10.07 | foxlit | Yes, you have |
| 12:10.30 | foxlit | Nevermind :) |
| 12:10.34 | Legorol | the hashing algorithm in the client is available to everyone, isn't it? |
| 12:11.00 | Legorol | the client is inherently insecure, if you generate the hash client side, and that's the shared secret, how is that different from having the password as the shared secret |
| 12:11.22 | Arrowmaster | maybe they just send the plaintext password after encrypting it with something like a shared key crypto |
| 12:12.28 | Legorol | that'd be too dangerous, anyone who managed to reverse engineer the client (which they can on their own time offline) could get hold of the shared key |
| 12:12.46 | Arrowmaster | either the client ends up sending the actual password to the server somehow, or they store actual passwords and not hashed passwords |
| 12:13.11 | Legorol | how does ssh do it? |
| 12:13.25 | Arrowmaster | Legorol: i ment private-public crypto systems, where the one doing the encrypting only has a public key |
| 12:13.40 | Arrowmaster | ssh uses a public-private key system too |
| 12:13.42 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: right |
| 12:14.12 | Vangual | storing the password plaintext is technically the best solution to all the mess with different auth scheme standards, but has the highest requirements to password storage security serverside. |
| 12:14.14 | Legorol | that works just fine then, and it doesn't matter whether the shared secret is the password or a hash of |
| 12:14.40 | Vangual | i would guess for a company like blizz it's way easier to just keep the pw's along with other sensitive data in a more secure storage |
| 12:14.50 | Arrowmaster | Legorol: you dont understand how private-public key systems work then |
| 12:14.51 | Legorol | indeed |
| 12:15.02 | cladhaire | Wow.. Glyph of the Gladiator is 100g! |
| 12:15.03 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: yes i do :) one side can encrypt, the other decrypt |
| 12:15.07 | Legorol | or vice versa |
| 12:15.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Chompers (n=Chompers@cpc1-cove9-0-0-cust541.brhm.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:15.40 | Legorol | what i was trying to say is that it doesn't matter whether the object that's being encrypted and transmitted from the client to the server is the actual password, or a hash of it |
| 12:15.54 | Arrowmaster | no it still matters |
| 12:16.04 | Legorol | i don't see how it increases security in any way |
| 12:16.23 | Arrowmaster | encrypting it? |
| 12:16.27 | Legorol | no, not the encrypting |
| 12:16.29 | Legorol | the hashing |
| 12:16.38 | Legorol | the discussion is about whether the server has the full pw or a hash of it instead |
| 12:17.08 | Legorol | what i'm trying to say is i don't see how storing a hash of the pw instead of the actual password, on the server, increases loging security |
| 12:17.08 | wereHamster | oh shit. Anyone else having problems with the wotlk installer? I downloaded the installer from the wotlk wiki, but when I start it and scroll down the EULA window, the 'agree' button doesn't activate |
| 12:17.18 | Vangual | hashing only increases security when the requested hashtype is dynamic, which leads back to the requester needing to be able to create the same dynami hash for verification |
| 12:17.44 | Legorol | yup, which leads back to the server having to have your cleartext pw |
| 12:17.52 | Vangual | (pregenerated hases maybe? tho never heard of anyone using that) |
| 12:18.05 | Legorol | well the authenticator does, sort of |
| 12:18.17 | Legorol | scratch that |
| 12:18.20 | Vangual | kind of |
| 12:18.25 | wereHamster | or the server and client first exchange a symmetric key and use that, or they use a PKI or ... |
| 12:18.27 | Legorol | the authenticator hashes with shared secret + time |
| 12:19.03 | Legorol | wereHamster: that's all fine and well, but that's all about increasing the security of the information whilst in transit |
| 12:19.15 | Legorol | ok, to break this issue down, there are two separate questions here: |
| 12:19.29 | Legorol | what method is used to transmit whatever information you intend to transmit securely, |
| 12:19.38 | Legorol | and what is that piece of information that you intend to transmit |
| 12:19.39 | Arrowmaster | i dont think it really matters if they store the password as a hash or not |
| 12:19.45 | Legorol | these are two separate questions |
| 12:19.47 | Vangual | i have a gut feeling they're using a standard solution for auth, eventho the vasco authenticators offer direct integration into custom solutions |
| 12:20.12 | wereHamster | Legorol: but both are in essence 'how does the client authenticate itself?' |
| 12:20.36 | Arrowmaster | i have a gut feeling they store plaintext passwords because of the large amount of different authentication systems they have linked together |
| 12:21.29 | Arrowmaster | remember the wow forums are not custom blizzard software, its actually a commercial product purchased from another company |
| 12:21.41 | Legorol | wereHamster: not exactly. with a public/private key, holders of the public key aren't authenticating themselves |
| 12:21.59 | Arrowmaster | i cant remember the name of said product or company but if the forums blow up again and we see tomcat error pages its easy to find it |
| 12:22.41 | cbreak | sorry, was distracted by cake. |
| 12:23.13 | cbreak | the server could store hash(password + salt), where salt is known to the server, and password and salt to the client |
| 12:23.16 | Legorol | i think that the blizz servers only store a hash |
| 12:23.26 | cbreak | the server sends nonce1 to client for authentification |
| 12:23.39 | Legorol | this doesn't increase login security, but it does increase security of the servers themselves being compromised (for example, disgruntled employee) |
| 12:23.41 | cbreak | the client sends back hash(hash(password + salt) + nonce) |
| 12:23.59 | cbreak | well, I have no claims that this is what happens |
| 12:24.25 | Legorol | cbreak: perfectly fine, it means server needs to have hash(password + salt), and client needs to have salt |
| 12:24.27 | cbreak | but it would send the password only in derivate form to the server |
| 12:24.39 | Legorol | you haven't increased login security over hash(password+nonce) |
| 12:24.43 | *** join/#wowuidev ag`_ (n=ag`@89.150.189.251) |
| 12:25.01 | cbreak | the login security is increased a tiny bit |
| 12:25.02 | Arrowmaster | salts are only useful if kept secret |
| 12:25.11 | Legorol | cbreak: not at all |
| 12:25.25 | cbreak | because you do not need to send the password to the server ever |
| 12:25.27 | Legorol | my key point is this: hashes on the server are only useful for increasing security of the data *on the server* |
| 12:25.36 | Legorol | it doesn't increase the security of authentication |
| 12:25.58 | Legorol | cbreak, if you are sending hash(password+nonce), you are also not sending it |
| 12:25.58 | Industrial | Anyone here play wow on a macbook? |
| 12:26.06 | Legorol | so what is the point of improvement? |
| 12:26.07 | cbreak | salts are to make precomputation of hash tables harder |
| 12:26.22 | cbreak | Legorol: but you have to send it to the server once so it can store it |
| 12:26.37 | Arrowmaster | cbreak: ONLY IF THE SALT IS SECRET |
| 12:26.57 | Legorol | in all this, we are assuming that the pw has somehow gotten to blizzard in a secure form to start with at least once in your life |
| 12:26.58 | cbreak | no, in all cases, as long as it is different for all users |
| 12:27.11 | Legorol | cbreak: the client is insecure |
| 12:27.26 | wereHamster | Legorol: you change the password through the account management webpage, and that's using https |
| 12:27.27 | Legorol | as long as the client has knowledge of the salt, or can get knowledge of it, it's compromised info |
| 12:27.27 | Arrowmaster | how can it be different for all users and still secret |
| 12:27.49 | cbreak | if there would be no salt or a common salt, you could precompute common passwords and reverse them. if there's a salt for each person, you can only do that per person |
| 12:28.02 | Arrowmaster | yeah salts are used for systems that you send the password to and it hashes it |
| 12:28.02 | Legorol | cbreak: that is all true, but |
| 12:28.07 | Legorol | it still does not increase login security |
| 12:28.26 | Legorol | you have to assume that the client is completely compromised and under the hackers' control |
| 12:28.27 | cbreak | it increases security from database compromises |
| 12:28.39 | Legorol | lol, isn't that what i said earlier |
| 12:28.39 | cbreak | that's the purpose of salting |
| 12:28.45 | Legorol | <Legorol> this doesn't increase login security, but it does increase security of the servers themselves being compromised (for example, disgruntled employee) |
| 12:28.56 | Legorol | and you disagreed |
| 12:29.10 | Arrowmaster | except if the salt isnt secret then its not doing anything useful |
| 12:29.17 | cbreak | it is |
| 12:29.22 | cbreak | it makes precomputation harder |
| 12:29.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Lonny (n=Lonny@82.80.140.191) |
| 12:29.32 | Arrowmaster | if its a unique salt per user then you have to store it somewhere like in the DB which makes it even less secure |
| 12:29.33 | cbreak | since you have to attack each hash individually |
| 12:29.51 | Legorol | cbreak: but you are using a one-time salt already |
| 12:29.59 | Legorol | you suggested using hash(hash(password + salt) + nonce) |
| 12:30.09 | Arrowmaster | not really, brutforcing doesnt take that long really |
| 12:30.10 | Legorol | i said that this doesn't increase login security over hash(password+nonce) |
| 12:30.14 | cbreak | you mean the nonce? that's just for transfer, as sort of challenge->response |
| 12:30.16 | Legorol | that's all i said |
| 12:30.42 | Legorol | no matter how you look at it, the client needs to know both salt an nonce |
| 12:30.48 | cbreak | Arrowmaster: it takes quite long :) reversing "secure hashes" is still very expensive |
| 12:30.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Kyahx (n=Kyahx@74-44-9-44.dr01.cnfl.mn.frontiernet.net) |
| 12:30.55 | cbreak | Legorol: of course |
| 12:30.56 | Legorol | it doesn't matter how many you salts you use, you can use 100 if you want |
| 12:31.11 | Legorol | but the client knows it, and therefore the hacker knows it |
| 12:31.21 | cbreak | it's a shared secret |
| 12:31.25 | cbreak | like the password |
| 12:31.29 | Legorol | no it's not |
| 12:31.32 | Legorol | because the user doesn't know it |
| 12:31.37 | Legorol | very very different |
| 12:31.43 | Legorol | anything that's in the client is inherently compromised |
| 12:32.08 | Legorol | the only things that are secure are what's on the server, and what's in the user's head |
| 12:32.27 | cbreak | if you asume that, you can forget about passwords too |
| 12:32.36 | cbreak | since the hashing would happen in the client |
| 12:32.43 | Legorol | *facepalm* |
| 12:32.45 | cbreak | unless you have an easy hash that could be done on paper |
| 12:32.48 | Legorol | isn't that what we said half an hour ago |
| 12:32.57 | cbreak | no idea, I was occupied with cake then |
| 12:33.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 12:33.04 | Legorol | that's why we said that it doesn't matter if you hash the password on the client side or not |
| 12:33.16 | cbreak | well, that's wrong |
| 12:33.29 | cbreak | you can still protect from evasedroping |
| 12:33.31 | Legorol | you need to *encrypt* it, but hashing it doesn't improve its security |
| 12:33.49 | Legorol | ok, maybe you missed this part: |
| 12:33.52 | cbreak | depends on the algorithm. |
| 12:33.55 | Legorol | the problem is broken in two parts |
| 12:34.02 | cbreak | if you use a hash as MAC it would be nice |
| 12:34.05 | Legorol | - how to transmit information securely to the server (to avoid eavesdropping) |
| 12:34.11 | Legorol | - how to store information securely on the server |
| 12:34.30 | Legorol | information stored in the client is insecure |
| 12:34.35 | Legorol | so you can't store information there |
| 12:34.46 | cbreak | you can't rely on it being secure |
| 12:34.56 | Legorol | exactly |
| 12:35.00 | cbreak | SSH stores a private key on the client |
| 12:35.13 | cbreak | which should be encrypted with a secret only known to the user though |
| 12:35.17 | Legorol | doesn't it store a public key of the server? |
| 12:35.34 | cbreak | SSH? yes, public key on server, private on client |
| 12:35.36 | Legorol | as far as i know, you have the public key of the server, that's all |
| 12:35.41 | cbreak | for authentifying the client |
| 12:35.41 | Legorol | no, other way around, isn't it? |
| 12:35.54 | Legorol | server has the private key, client has the public key |
| 12:35.56 | nevcairiel | It also stores the fingerprint of the server |
| 12:36.09 | nevcairiel | for authenticating that the server is right |
| 12:36.10 | cbreak | if I want to log in on my desktop |
| 12:36.18 | cbreak | from my laptop, I use the private key on my laptop |
| 12:36.26 | Legorol | that's your *personal* key pair |
| 12:36.27 | cbreak | and authentificate myself with it to the server |
| 12:36.30 | cbreak | yes |
| 12:36.37 | cbreak | the server does the same to prove he's itself |
| 12:36.38 | Legorol | that's not a serverwide pair |
| 12:36.41 | nevcairiel | SSH servers also have their own private key |
| 12:36.47 | Legorol | right |
| 12:36.55 | nevcairiel | they send their public key during the handshake |
| 12:37.01 | Legorol | and you only get told the public key of the server |
| 12:37.04 | Legorol | that's what i said |
| 12:37.13 | Legorol | cbreak has knowledge of two pieces of info: his private key, and the server's public key |
| 12:37.18 | Legorol | plus the fingerprint |
| 12:37.22 | cbreak | exactly. |
| 12:37.32 | Legorol | lol, please read what i exactly type |
| 12:37.33 | cbreak | + bound information such as ip and domain name |
| 12:37.35 | Legorol | earlier you disagreed |
| 12:37.50 | cbreak | I did? |
| 12:37.51 | Legorol | <Legorol> doesn't it store a public key of the server? |
| 12:37.54 | Legorol | <cbreak> SSH? yes, public key on server, private on client |
| 12:38.11 | Nom- | That's for authentication |
| 12:38.12 | nevcairiel | You encrypt outgoing data with the servers public key, and decode incoming with your private key, and all is done |
| 12:38.13 | cbreak | it stores the public key on the server |
| 12:38.17 | cbreak | and the private on the client |
| 12:38.23 | Legorol | note the crucial "of" |
| 12:38.26 | cbreak | that's how the client authentifies itself... |
| 12:38.30 | Legorol | i have asked if ssh stores the public key of the server |
| 12:38.37 | Legorol | the answer to that is NO |
| 12:39.00 | Legorol | never mind |
| 12:39.05 | cbreak | I didn't say no. I ignored your question because it's not relevant for client authentification :) |
| 12:39.21 | nevcairiel | The client only stores the fingerprint, generally. So it can check if the server is still the same, and you didnt run into dns poisoning or something =P |
| 12:39.37 | Legorol | nvm, let's get back to wow |
| 12:39.58 | Nom- | all you need to know about ssh is that a negotiation happens on connection which means the client encrypts data using a key which only the server knows, and the server sends data encrypted with a key that only the client knows |
| 12:40.01 | Legorol | do we agree that anything stored in the client is insecure and available to all hackers |
| 12:40.38 | cbreak | everything known to the computer is known to those who controll it |
| 12:40.43 | cbreak | if your hackers compromise the computer, they know everything |
| 12:40.45 | Legorol | right |
| 12:40.50 | Legorol | but more importantly: |
| 12:40.54 | Legorol | they don't need to compromise my computer |
| 12:40.59 | Legorol | they have a copy of WoW themselves |
| 12:41.01 | cbreak | attackers that just observe can not know everything |
| 12:41.11 | Legorol | so everything that's stored in my copy of WoW, other than information I have supplied, is stored in theirs too |
| 12:41.22 | Nom- | If you beleive your puny little desktop is worthy of time spent to hack it, then you're flattering yourself :P |
| 12:41.28 | cbreak | not neccessarily. |
| 12:41.34 | Legorol | Nom-: you are late to the convo |
| 12:41.44 | wereHamster | wow could generate a key at install time |
| 12:41.55 | Legorol | we were discussing these points: whether blizzard's servers stores plaintext password or a hash of it instead, |
| 12:41.55 | cbreak | this is likely not done, but the server could send sort of a cookie to first time authentifications |
| 12:41.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Drayeah (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2869ca66faef1277) |
| 12:41.59 | wereHamster | (though I doubt it does) |
| 12:42.02 | Legorol | and whether login security is increased by storing only a hash of it |
| 12:42.23 | Nom- | Probably a hash |
| 12:42.24 | cbreak | Nom-: key loggers aren't directed attacks :) |
| 12:42.37 | cbreak | at least not always |
| 12:42.44 | Nom- | No, they're not |
| 12:42.49 | Nom- | But that's a whole other ball game |
| 12:43.01 | Nom- | key loggers fall into the same category as phishing sites |
| 12:43.02 | Legorol | wereHamster: i think we already said that we have assumed that there was at least a one-time exchange of secret info between you and blizzard via some mechanism |
| 12:43.19 | Nom- | yes... when you create the account |
| 12:43.23 | Nom- | It's submitted over HTTPS |
| 12:43.24 | Legorol | having done that, we are considering the security of an ordinary login process |
| 12:43.31 | Nom- | Which is HTTP thorugh an SSL tunnel |
| 12:43.49 | Legorol | Nom-: but that's not neccessarily all, wereHamster's suggestion of a one-time generated piece of data at install time can also be included |
| 12:43.56 | Legorol | i wanted to make this an abstract analysis: |
| 12:44.04 | Nom- | Well, you eventually have to type your password in somehwere |
| 12:44.20 | cbreak | I have seen schemes where you calculate a digest on paper |
| 12:44.21 | Nom- | Ther are plenty of authentication methods that don't require the submission of passwords... lots of software use them |
| 12:44.27 | Legorol | It's a given that there was (at least one) uncompromised, secure exchange of data between you, possibly your client and blizzard |
| 12:44.33 | Legorol | we don't need to know any more of the details |
| 12:44.42 | Nom- | You can hash the key on the client side and only send the hash - that's how Windows login works with an Active Directory |
| 12:44.56 | Legorol | Nom-: unfortunatley, this was covered about an hour ago |
| 12:44.57 | cbreak | simple hashing can be replayed |
| 12:45.09 | Legorol | what we are discussing is whether that increases login security at all |
| 12:45.23 | wereHamster | oh noes! Windows/AD is not safe??? |
| 12:45.26 | Legorol | using hashing only increases storage security, not login security |
| 12:45.40 | Nom- | It's a good method if you're sending over an unencrypted channel |
| 12:45.49 | cbreak | it might make attacking with randomly generated passwords slower if the hash is computationally intensive |
| 12:45.55 | Legorol | ok, for Nom-'s benefit who is late to this discussion: |
| 12:45.55 | Legorol | <Legorol> - how to transmit information securely to the server (to avoid eavesdropping) |
| 12:45.55 | Legorol | <Legorol> - how to store information securely on the server |
| 12:45.57 | cbreak | but I doubt cpu is a bottleneck in network security |
| 12:46.06 | Legorol | those are the two points we can break this problem down to |
| 12:46.37 | Nom- | 2. Is solved by only storing the hashed version on the server, which is likely what happens. |
| 12:46.41 | Legorol | i think we already agreed that anything that's stored on the client (including algorithms, pre-shared keys, salts etc.) are insecure |
| 12:46.42 | Nom- | 1. Is solved by using SSL tunnels |
| 12:46.49 | wereHamster | Legorol: actually, these is a third point: WHERE ARE MY COOKIES? |
| 12:46.53 | Legorol | lol |
| 12:47.00 | *** join/#wowuidev cheesepls_ (n=chatzill@82-37-196-68.cable.ubr05.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:47.13 | cbreak | Legorol: as said, it depends on the power of the attacker |
| 12:47.36 | Legorol | Nom-: the discussion originally started around this point: does it increase your password security if the password is hashed first on the client side |
| 12:47.49 | Legorol | and some of us tried to argue that it doesn't |
| 12:47.57 | Legorol | sorry let me rephrase |
| 12:48.12 | Legorol | i meant login security, in terms of being able to authenticate more securely |
| 12:48.19 | Legorol | and not in terms of the storage on blizz server |
| 12:48.20 | Nom- | I answered that already - only if you're going to transmit the data to the server in an unencrypted way |
| 12:48.32 | Legorol | right, so you agree with me |
| 12:48.39 | cbreak | hmm... if you get posession of a hash of a password, you can not use that to log in on the web form, since it possibly uses a different hashing function, or none at all. |
| 12:48.57 | Nom- | If you're using an SSL tunnel, that's an encryption layer which is pretty damn hard to break |
| 12:49.02 | Legorol | right |
| 12:49.24 | Legorol | so some of us argued that (from the point of view of the security of authentication), it's sufficient for blizzard servers to store your plaintext password |
| 12:49.28 | Nom- | Basically an SSL tunnel means you only have to worry about the security at the data centre |
| 12:49.38 | Legorol | exactly |
| 12:49.44 | cbreak | and debian server ssl certs :) |
| 12:50.05 | Nom- | They won't do that, I can just about guarantee it |
| 12:50.11 | Legorol | oh i'm sure they don't |
| 12:50.26 | Legorol | but some people were suggesting that by storing a hash of some sort instead, *authentication* security is improved |
| 12:50.32 | Legorol | which is what started the debate |
| 12:50.33 | Nom- | They'll have a hashed version... when the server gets the request, it'll hash it, and compare the hashed version |
| 12:51.19 | Nom- | It does, because then the clear text version only exists in memory on the server until it's GC'ed |
| 12:51.21 | Legorol | in the case of WoW, the bigger danger that users face is that a hacker successfully authenticates instead of them, not that Blizzard's servers are compromised |
| 12:52.02 | cbreak | oh, it would be so much fun to have db access to bliz's servers |
| 12:52.11 | Legorol | i'm saying, let's assume that Blizzard's servers are a completely secure environment |
| 12:52.25 | Legorol | and that we, as users, don't need to worry about it (i know it's not true in practice, but for the sake of this discussion) |
| 12:52.40 | Nom- | I can tell ya now... Blizzard has to comply to some pretty strict regulations on data security... i'm going through the pain at my work trying to bring our systems up to those standards |
| 12:52.52 | cbreak | sounds like fun |
| 12:53.11 | cbreak | you can harass people in the name of security :) |
| 12:53.15 | Legorol | so my assertion was that under those circumstances, trying to do anything more complicated than inputting the password into the client, and transmitting it over a secure channel to the server, won't increase authentication security |
| 12:53.39 | Nom- | Because your login information can be used to obtain details about you and your payment details, there are a whole heap of regulations to comply with from the PCI (Payment Card Industry) |
| 12:53.42 | digmouse | murmer world server is down |
| 12:53.58 | cbreak | yeah, but how do you get a secure channel? |
| 12:54.01 | Legorol | Nom-: yeah all good, irrelevant to the discussion |
| 12:54.06 | Nom- | SSL tunnel, cbreak |
| 12:54.12 | Legorol | cbreak: that's an entirely separate discussion |
| 12:54.38 | Legorol | you can hash the password on client side and transmit the hash if you want, that's poor security, but sort of works |
| 12:54.38 | cbreak | ssl only works if you have some certificate/pubkey of the server |
| 12:55.02 | Legorol | WoW client can have easily have a public key stored |
| 12:55.11 | Nom- | cbreak: That's exchanged when you open a connection... |
| 12:55.20 | Nom- | cbreak: Ever been to a https:// web site? Same thing... |
| 12:55.25 | cbreak | if they are exchanged on the fly |
| 12:55.32 | cbreak | you will not get a secure connection ever |
| 12:55.37 | cbreak | since you are vulnerable to MitM |
| 12:55.42 | Legorol | Nom-: speaking of which, how does SSL avoid man-in-the middle? i used to know but forgot :( |
| 12:55.43 | cbreak | you have to store a cert somewhere initially |
| 12:55.51 | cbreak | SSL has CAs |
| 12:55.56 | Legorol | right |
| 12:55.56 | cbreak | that sign certificates |
| 12:56.01 | Legorol | that was it, yeah |
| 12:56.08 | Legorol | so there is pre-stored info on the client |
| 12:56.11 | cbreak | CA certs are pre-shared, usually with your browser |
| 12:56.25 | Legorol | bottom line is: |
| 12:56.47 | Legorol | the server may as well store your cleartext password, it doesn't affect authentication security |
| 12:57.01 | cbreak | overall security is more than authentification security |
| 12:57.12 | Legorol | WoW may do anything it wants client side, using any information it likes in addition to the password, but all that information is public knowledge |
| 12:57.19 | cbreak | if the client is compromised, entering a password alone will not protect you for example |
| 12:57.26 | Legorol | cbreak: yes, but the discussion started about authentication security |
| 12:57.46 | cbreak | that's why there are now those OTP generator tokens |
| 12:57.49 | Legorol | the discussion started because someone asserted that blizzard would be stupid to store plaintext password, because it makes it easier for a hacker to login instead of you |
| 12:58.05 | Legorol | so i tried to dispute that |
| 12:58.13 | Nom- | lol |
| 12:58.18 | cbreak | the original question is boring |
| 12:58.23 | Legorol | i tried to show that blizz servers can store the plaintext and it doesn't make it any easier or harder for a hacker to authenticate as you |
| 12:58.28 | Nom- | storing plaintext passwords in a secure DC is a rather low risk |
| 12:58.42 | cbreak | it's not really needed risk |
| 12:58.53 | Legorol | Nom-: again, i have disregarded storage security here, i am focusing on authentication security |
| 12:58.57 | Nom- | The systems I work on, we actually *do* have the plaintext password available to all our staff... we've had so few incidents, that it's almost not worth mentioning |
| 12:59.22 | Legorol | i'm fairly sure blizzard doesn't store plaintext in practice, because they do have to consider storage security too |
| 12:59.24 | cbreak | do you gain anything by storing clear? |
| 12:59.30 | doow | it's a rather low risk, but should someone gain access the consequences(sp?) are huge. |
| 12:59.37 | Nom- | It's easier for our customers, cbreak |
| 12:59.44 | cbreak | why? |
| 12:59.44 | Legorol | but from the pov of an abstract problem, in order to improve authentication security, it's not needed |
| 13:00.02 | Nom- | Well, I work for an ISP |
| 13:00.07 | Legorol | no you don't gain anything from storing clear, but you dont' lose anything either |
| 13:00.13 | cbreak | the only thing I can imagine is being able to send the password to the client |
| 13:00.21 | Legorol | i was fighting the original assertion that you lose authentication security if you store plain text |
| 13:00.28 | Nom- | It's a lot easier for your mum and dad 'net user to be told their password, than have to spend an hour changing all their modem/router settings every time they forget it |
| 13:01.19 | cbreak | doesn't sound important |
| 13:01.38 | doow | it's also highly vulnerable to insider attacks |
| 13:01.48 | cbreak | although ... my ISP does not require a password |
| 13:02.10 | cbreak | for internet access at least |
| 13:02.10 | cbreak | they seem to trust the MAC of the modem |
| 13:02.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 13:02.11 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 13:02.14 | doow | fools! |
| 13:02.18 | Nom- | Absolutely... it's a risk, but as I said... when you're supporting 600,000 customers, it's a lot easier to give them their password than to change settings on every device they own |
| 13:02.49 | Nom- | a couple of years ago, it would have been OK, but with so many houses getting second and third computers (counting laptops, cellphones which log on etc), it's so much easier to have it there |
| 13:03.20 | cbreak | if people forget their passwords, it's their problem... |
| 13:03.42 | Corrodias | indeed, and they're the customers |
| 13:03.44 | Nom- | Yeah, but when you have to walk people through changing their settings, it's a huge tax on helpdesks :) |
| 13:03.50 | cbreak | they should just write it down and put it into their wallet or safe. |
| 13:03.51 | Corrodias | which therefore also makes it the company's problem |
| 13:05.00 | Nom- | I've seen it done both ways, tbh |
| 13:05.17 | Nom- | Both work... we've actually bought and integrated companies which only had one-way storage of passwords too |
| 13:06.40 | cbreak | ask the client to resubmit their pw in clear text? :) |
| 13:07.21 | foxlit | steal it when they next authenticate :) |
| 13:07.36 | Nom- | Yep, that's what we did, actually :P |
| 13:07.58 | Nom- | Turned on extra logging on our network gear, and just had it log the password next time they logged in |
| 13:08.46 | cbreak | I hope your logging server has the same security level as the database server :) |
| 13:10.56 | Nom- | Cisco NAS gear... it's pretty damn secure when we're done configuring it |
| 13:12.53 | cbreak | my only expeirence with cisco was with their vpn client, which is just crap. The earlier versions even caused kernel panics |
| 13:13.33 | Nom- | 10 years with only one breach (which doesn't count, because it was a staff members' computer which had a VPN connection left open) |
| 13:13.39 | Nom- | Not a bad track record |
| 13:14.15 | Nom- | And even then, they didn't get access to much lol... just one server which was used for staff shell access |
| 13:16.20 | Industrial | btw they discovered a fatal flaw in google chrome |
| 13:16.26 | Industrial | it will destroy lives :< |
| 13:16.34 | Industrial | http://gizmodo.com/5046344/google-chrome-fatal-flaw-discovered-will-destroy-lives-dignities |
| 13:17.46 | Nom- | lol |
| 13:18.03 | Nom- | so true |
| 13:18.21 | Industrial | (ctrl-shift-n, porn browsing mode, l2chrome) |
| 13:22.17 | Nom- | If I wanted to use a webkit browser, I'd just use Safari :P |
| 13:23.14 | Nom- | At least it works* |
| 13:23.23 | Nom- | * Most of the time |
| 13:24.45 | cbreak | looks like the beta server is back to it's old instable self |
| 13:24.57 | cbreak | from the new, down-every-few-mins self it had yesterday |
| 13:25.19 | nevcairiel | I still cannot login |
| 13:25.22 | nevcairiel | full loading bar ftl |
| 13:25.44 | Nom- | If a Count runs a County, Prince runs a Principality, a Duke runs a Dukedom, a King runs a Kingdom, who runs a country? |
| 13:27.00 | cbreak | a prince runs a principality? |
| 13:27.03 | zenzelezz | the head of state |
| 13:27.08 | cbreak | and what the hell is a Dukedom? |
| 13:27.14 | foxlit | zenzelezz: presumably runs a state |
| 13:27.32 | foxlit | [[Dukedom (administrative division), a territory, fief, or domain ruled by a duke or duchess]] |
| 13:27.45 | nevcairiel | Also called "Duchy" |
| 13:27.47 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 13:27.47 | zenzelezz | by and large, a "state" is a more formal word for a country |
| 13:27.49 | cbreak | The "Federal Councelors" run my country. Try to. |
| 13:28.04 | foxlit | zenzelezz: nevertheless, state != country :) |
| 13:28.13 | zenzelezz | foxlit: does in my lingo |
| 13:28.18 | Nom- | smrt asss |
| 13:28.39 | nevcairiel | mmm, in my dictionary state is a lot smaller then a country |
| 13:28.43 | nevcairiel | like, florida is a state |
| 13:28.46 | nevcairiel | US is the country |
| 13:29.24 | foxlit | zenzelezz: find me a dictionary :) |
| 13:29.37 | zenzelezz | "the person who holds the highest position in a national government: a meeting of heads of state." -- fair enough, might just be the prime minister-type position |
| 13:29.39 | zenzelezz | http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/head+of+state?jss=0 |
| 13:30.15 | foxlit | Preferably, one that defines "state" as a "country" :) |
| 13:30.34 | zenzelezz | if I had that then we wouldn't be having this argument in the first place, silly |
| 13:30.59 | zenzelezz | I'm Norwegian, so I have a liberal translation of our names for a country's leader and the like into English |
| 13:36.49 | Nom- | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/funny-pictures-your-cat-will-sleep-for-food.jpg |
| 13:41.39 | cbreak | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s13dLaTIHSg |
| 13:44.04 | cbreak | I love those. |
| 13:45.16 | Cairenn | I love the one where he wakes up his owner |
| 13:46.32 | Cairenn | hahahah |
| 13:47.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Kyahx (n=Kyahx@74-44-9-44.dr01.cnfl.mn.frontiernet.net) |
| 13:58.35 | foxlit | 217M Sep 7 15:58 stats.db |
| 13:58.43 | foxlit | Perhaps parsing logs into a sqlite db was not a good idea |
| 13:59.07 | Maldivia | Cairenn: could have sworn that was my cat .) |
| 13:59.16 | Cairenn | Maldivia: heh, me too |
| 13:59.26 | Cairenn | although in my case it's catS |
| 14:00.15 | Nom- | 217MB ? That's nothing |
| 14:01.04 | foxlit | 214M Sep 4 12:19 access_log |
| 14:01.23 | foxlit | The sqlite version ended up at 242M. |
| 14:01.41 | Nom- | That's not bad |
| 14:01.57 | Nom- | I parse 6GB of logs every day @ work :P |
| 14:02.16 | Nom- | Not counting error logs :) |
| 14:02.21 | Maldivia | Cairenn: they all fit soo well... |
| 14:02.29 | Cairenn | hehehe yup |
| 14:02.45 | foxlit | On the bright side, it's still relatively fast |
| 14:02.56 | foxlit | SELECT DISTINCT url FROM hits WHERE length(url) > 50; turns up a heck of a lot of junk. |
| 14:03.05 | Maldivia | Cairenn: the "Let me in" one I really love... especially how the cat is just standing there after the door has been opened, now it's no longer that interesting :). |
| 14:03.21 | Cairenn | isn't that the truth |
| 14:05.06 | cbreak | my cats do that all the time... |
| 14:06.32 | Maldivia | my cat can stand by the door miowing... and when I open it... it takes a single peek outside, turns around and walks away, not interested anymore |
| 14:09.52 | Cairenn | good thing we love them, hey? |
| 14:10.06 | Nom- | I prefer dogs :) |
| 14:10.08 | Cairenn | otherwise we might just be forced to kill them |
| 14:10.33 | Cairenn | mind you, same holds true for husbands and other small pets .... ;-p |
| 14:12.26 | |pez| | damnit, the boyfriend just left a mark on my arm. >___> |
| 14:13.04 | Nom- | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-you-may-be-missing-a-lolcat.jpg <-- lol nice one |
| 14:13.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah (n=Slakah@5acd438a.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:14.55 | Nom- | I was going to make a joke, but decided it would be in poor taste :/ |
| 14:16.40 | Maldivia | hmm... are there any continent on Northrend that you can log on to currently? |
| 14:17.12 | [SW]Dodge | Nom-: i miss a lolcat too :P but my mom would kill me if i get a cat as long as i live here -.- |
| 14:17.27 | Shirik | Announcement from professor: "CS225 section 2 students are added to blackboard site for CS 225 section 01. THIS IS FOR CLACKBOARD MATERIALS ONLY." |
| 14:17.34 | Shirik | Should I fix it or leave it like that? |
| 14:18.49 | Cairenn | lol |
| 14:18.52 | Maldivia | depends... is this a movie class? |
| 14:19.18 | Shirik | no, this would be Java programming :P |
| 14:21.02 | Maldivia | post a "Take 1" hello world type app then ? :) |
| 14:22.07 | Shirik | I don't think the students would get it :P |
| 14:24.32 | cbreak | write a man page. |
| 14:26.11 | Shirik | I just had an entire lab session explaining how to write a batch file |
| 14:26.15 | Shirik | I'm not going to teach them to use linux |
| 14:27.02 | Cairenn | o.O |
| 14:28.21 | cbreak | at my university knowledge in programming languages was just assumed. We just had to solve exercises with them. |
| 14:29.18 | Nom- | yay for the disk recovery challenge |
| 14:29.33 | Nom- | someone is offering a $50,000 prize to anyone who can recover data from a disk which has been dd'ed |
| 14:30.04 | cbreak | overwritten? |
| 14:30.28 | Shirik | That's it? |
| 14:30.34 | Nom- | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda |
| 14:30.37 | cbreak | that needs hardware modifications to restore I think |
| 14:30.46 | cbreak | if it is possible at all |
| 14:30.49 | Nom- | No, it's not recoverable :P |
| 14:30.53 | Shirik | yes it is |
| 14:31.09 | Maldivia | you can recover 5-10 overwrites on any magnetic harddrive |
| 14:31.10 | Shirik | That's why that's not a valid way to wipe a drive with secure data for the government |
| 14:31.12 | Nom- | Shirik: The challenge has been out there for 9 months now - noone has done it |
| 14:31.30 | Shirik | Well someone needs to try harder :) Are they not allowing professional companies to do it? |
| 14:31.36 | cbreak | I don't think you can go over two or three times |
| 14:31.45 | Nom- | That's who they've been approaching |
| 14:31.50 | cbreak | in essence you would read the data from disk |
| 14:32.07 | cbreak | and then read the signals from the platers, subtracting the main data |
| 14:32.23 | cbreak | and hope the error coding can give you something meaningfull |
| 14:32.28 | cbreak | (I think :) |
| 14:32.30 | Shirik | If all you did was write zeroes to it, then there still should be a signal bias |
| 14:32.35 | Shirik | you don't need any error coding |
| 14:32.56 | cbreak | current hard disks need error coding even in normal operation |
| 14:33.01 | Shirik | I disagree |
| 14:33.04 | Nom- | That's all they did... they want to prove that you *don't* have to write random data - it's irrecoverable with just one write of zeroes |
| 14:33.32 | Shirik | I would take them up on this challenge if I had the appropriate hardware and facilities to do it :P |
| 14:33.34 | wereHamster | Nom-: it's possible, even if the disk has been overwritten with dd |
| 14:33.36 | Shirik | Interesting challenge |
| 14:33.56 | Nom- | Indeed. |
| 14:34.11 | cbreak | modern drives are quite densely packed |
| 14:34.22 | cbreak | the bits on them |
| 14:34.23 | Nom- | actually, they're not even asking for data... they will pay up just for a directory listing |
| 14:34.34 | cbreak | that's data too :) |
| 14:34.48 | Nom- | http://16systems.com/zero/index.html |
| 14:34.50 | Shirik | I know this cbreak, trust me I know a lot about hardware. I still think you are taking a pessimistic view of everything. Nom-: Have they said what filesystem is on it? |
| 14:35.08 | Shirik | Nom-... that says $500 :( |
| 14:35.24 | cbreak | Shirik: pessmism is my second name. |
| 14:35.50 | Nom- | oh, so it does |
| 14:35.50 | Nom- | bugger |
| 14:35.53 | Esine | Nom-, that was on /. just a moment ago. It used to be 40$ and it was change to 500$ just a few hours ago |
| 14:35.57 | Nom- | no wonder |
| 14:36.30 | cbreak | hard disks are an analog medium |
| 14:36.31 | Esine | the original rules were: mail me 60 USD and pay for postages and I'll mail you a harddrive. If you succeed I'll give you your 60 USD back and a 40 USD prize! |
| 14:36.33 | cbreak | I don't trust them |
| 14:36.35 | Esine | that's.. horrible |
| 14:36.52 | Esine | succeed on recovering files* |
| 14:37.31 | Shirik | see, here's the issue Nom- |
| 14:37.39 | Shirik | None of these companies will take this challenge |
| 14:37.44 | Shirik | who cares about $500 |
| 14:38.05 | Shirik | These companies make thousands of dollars per customer just for a non-overwritten, but mechanically failing drive |
| 14:38.05 | Esine | I just really hope someone else would do this with a proper prize, say the 50k USD nom said |
| 14:38.35 | Shirik | To recover the data in this challenge, you need to handle the drive in a very specific manner, because you aren't actually reading standard voltage levels anymore |
| 14:38.50 | Shirik | If someone tried hard enough, though, it should certainly be possible |
| 14:40.27 | cbreak | I often listen to a podcast called "SecurityNow". It is hosted by a guy who sells a hard disk recovery utility. I am not entirely sure how much of that utility is real technology and how much is placebo though... anyway, he often gives a few opinions on hard disk recovery |
| 14:41.21 | Nom- | Yep, I thought it was $50,000, which would definately be incentive |
| 14:41.26 | Nom- | But $500 is nothing |
| 14:41.26 | Esine | a podcast about hdd recovery made by a guy who sells hdd recovery software solution. biased much, cbreak? |
| 14:41.33 | cbreak | no |
| 14:41.34 | Maldivia | well, this particular chalange can't be done with simple software |
| 14:41.40 | cbreak | a podcast about computer security :) |
| 14:41.55 | Shirik | I agree entirely with Maldivia |
| 14:42.02 | Shirik | the hardware on the drive is fundamentally incapable of reading it |
| 14:42.17 | cbreak | it might be able to read it |
| 14:42.21 | cbreak | but the AD will ignore it |
| 14:42.36 | Maldivia | no, it will read zeroes |
| 14:43.07 | cbreak | I don't think zeroes are stored as zeroes on disk |
| 14:43.08 | Esine | yeah, remember it's not physically damaged in any way |
| 14:43.15 | Shirik | The hard drive will use TTL or MOS technology. Either way, the voltage levels will be too low to switch on the transistor. |
| 14:44.01 | Shirik | There's no reason to have an AD on the drive, you don't need the voltage level |
| 14:44.03 | Shirik | you need a 1 or a 0 |
| 14:44.08 | Shirik | ADs are expensive |
| 14:44.09 | Shirik | and slow |
| 14:44.21 | cbreak | a 1 bit ad maybe? :) |
| 14:44.46 | Shirik | That's still expensive and slow, because it requires several components, including an RC timer or crystal and a capacitor to analyze the charge from |
| 14:45.20 | Shirik | Whereas you can do all of this with a single biased transistor |
| 14:45.37 | Shirik | and a pull-down resistor, to be technical |
| 14:45.45 | cbreak | but that's already an ad |
| 14:45.49 | Shirik | no, it's not |
| 14:46.06 | cbreak | it transforms analog signals into digital ones |
| 14:46.19 | Shirik | No, it amplifies a current to a saturation level |
| 14:46.52 | cbreak | hmm... maybe there's a more specific definition of ad than the informal one I use |
| 14:47.14 | Shirik | There is no reason to ever think about the bits on a hard drive as being analog (except for this competition, in which case you WOULD need an AD) |
| 14:47.38 | Shirik | In fact, that's specifically the reason that the hard drive's hardware cannot do this, is because there is no AD on the drive |
| 14:48.17 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 14:48.41 | Maldivia | hmm... do Blizzard work sunday mornings - the servers could use a restart about now :) |
| 14:48.59 | Shirik | An AD consists of a capacitor to read the charge, a crystal or RC timer, and an array of op amps. All of this, while relatively cheap, is somewhere around .... 2500% the price needed and a hell of a lot slower |
| 14:49.19 | Shirik | Maldivia: One would hope they have critical employees :) |
| 14:49.47 | Maldivia | Shirik: question is... are critical employees on beta aswell, or live only? |
| 14:49.55 | Shirik | now that's a good question :) |
| 14:50.49 | Maldivia | if not, will someone log on to their DK and cast UB2 ? :) |
| 14:51.08 | cbreak | I read that spell was disabled |
| 14:51.13 | Shirik | UB2? |
| 14:51.21 | Maldivia | cbreak: it was :) |
| 14:51.26 | Maldivia | Shirik: Unholy Blight Rank 2 |
| 14:51.34 | Shirik | some problem? |
| 14:52.06 | foxlit | http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=51376 |
| 14:52.08 | cbreak | there were rumors that spell killed the server |
| 14:52.09 | Maldivia | UB2 on build 8905 crsahes the server :) |
| 14:52.11 | foxlit | ^^ wowhead knows what is is :) |
| 14:52.12 | Nom- | I can't even log in at th emoment |
| 14:52.36 | Maldivia | cbreak: not only rumours, to quote Tigole: "Unholy Blight Rank 2 was causing the World Server to shut down. We have temporarily disabled the spell in order to restore stability. " |
| 14:53.19 | cbreak | that US blue guy? Hmm... |
| 14:53.28 | cbreak | I wonder how they managed to not spot that in internal testing :) |
| 14:53.53 | Maldivia | probably was running around as level 80 with rank 4 instead |
| 14:53.54 | wereHamster | they probably don't cast every single spell just to test them |
| 14:54.24 | foxlit | Here's a far more sinister theory: |
| 14:54.32 | foxlit | _you_ are the internal testing |
| 14:54.43 | haste | oh shi-! |
| 14:54.56 | foxlit | If it compiles, might as well deploy it |
| 14:55.03 | Shirik | It appears Rank 2 is coded wrong, if you look at wowhead |
| 14:55.25 | Shirik | It differs from the others: It casts itself |
| 14:55.29 | Shirik | infinite recursion? |
| 14:55.36 | cbreak | yay! |
| 14:57.01 | Shirik | I dunno |
| 14:57.11 | Shirik | I think this is the kind of thing that should be caught by automated tests |
| 14:57.32 | wereHamster | how would you automate such tests? |
| 14:57.46 | Shirik | Well, first off, for this specific case |
| 14:57.57 | Shirik | Check each spell script to ensure its effects do not include itself |
| 14:58.34 | Shirik | Secondly, it should be possible to script a simulator to cast every spell in some manner and have it run on the server |
| 14:58.46 | Shirik | hell, a Lua script could do that |
| 14:59.06 | wereHamster | that's one of thousand possible bugs, I don't think any QA departement would script all those possible situations |
| 14:59.32 | Shirik | No, but when you encounter something like this, it's generally logical to create an automated test to prevent it from happening in the future |
| 14:59.56 | wereHamster | sure. But you still can't prevent the very first occurence of the bug |
| 15:00.02 | Shirik | I won't deny that |
| 15:00.16 | foxlit | I will! |
| 15:00.27 | foxlit | You can prevent the very first occurence of very similar bugs :) |
| 15:02.32 | Nom- | well my penguin was crashing the server earlier |
| 15:02.37 | Nom- | I can try and take it out for a reset :P |
| 15:03.07 | Nom- | It may have just been a cooincidence though ^_^ |
| 15:03.57 | Corrodias | DO IT DO IT |
| 15:09.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Neuro_Medivh (n=neuro@pool-71-170-46-227.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:17.40 | Nom- | wow loading screen takes *forever* to get through |
| 15:19.37 | cbreak | the loading screen ends on "You have been disconnected from the server" |
| 15:19.42 | cbreak | I've seen it many times today |
| 15:21.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Diskmaster (n=YOURFACE@CPE-76-85-147-197.neb.res.rr.com) |
| 15:22.18 | Nom- | lol the US is only just starting to put bandwidth caps in place? |
| 15:22.36 | cbreak | bandwidth caps? :D |
| 15:24.29 | Nom- | ie. X gb per month |
| 15:24.59 | cbreak | apparently I used 20 gb upstream in the last 30 hours |
| 15:25.00 | Esine | Nom-, soo.. you're proud you have such caps imposed to you? |
| 15:25.18 | Nom- | No, it just surprises me... we've had them for a decade here |
| 15:25.45 | cbreak | I don't think we have caps here yet. |
| 15:25.55 | cbreak | at least they never told me :) |
| 15:25.58 | Esine | where is here? if my ISP ever limited my usage I'd change in an instant |
| 15:26.13 | cbreak | switzerland, the land of the swiss :) |
| 15:26.18 | Nom- | http://www.iinet.net.au/products/broadband/plans.html <-- consider yourselves lucky |
| 15:26.18 | Corrodias | if you had a choice in service... sometimes it's picking the least bad of multiple bad options |
| 15:26.34 | Esine | :O I thought switzerland was the land of free |
| 15:26.47 | Corrodias | music is free, internet costs |
| 15:26.49 | Nom- | Having said that, I guess we get the bonus of actually having full speed net most of the time |
| 15:27.52 | cbreak | http://www.cablecom.ch/en/index/internet/hispeed.htm?setlang=4 |
| 15:29.40 | Anaral | So is Northrend being it's usual yo-yo self or are they doing a hotfix at the moment? |
| 15:31.05 | Nom- | It's offline? |
| 15:31.12 | Nom- | I'm just stuck on the loading screen |
| 15:31.24 | wereHamster | cbreak: cablecom doesn't offer a fixed IP, that's why we had to go with ADSL |
| 15:31.32 | wereHamster | VDSL2 to be exact |
| 15:31.42 | cbreak | you need a fixed IP? |
| 15:31.51 | wereHamster | we want one |
| 15:31.54 | cbreak | I use dyndns to be able to ssh to my home |
| 15:32.00 | cbreak | which is good enough for me |
| 15:33.23 | Nom- | cable suck |
| 15:33.25 | Nom- | s |
| 15:34.26 | Nom- | lol is that seriously 250 MB download ? |
| 15:34.31 | Nom- | for the lowest plan |
| 15:34.43 | wereHamster | that's the speed |
| 15:34.47 | Nom- | oh... |
| 15:35.13 | Nom- | wow |
| 15:35.15 | Nom- | server is loading quick now |
| 15:35.25 | foxlit | grr |
| 15:35.27 | wereHamster | it's even written in the table header. l2read? |
| 15:35.32 | foxlit | SecureCmdOptionParse and click modifier |
| 15:35.36 | Nom- | shutdown in 11 mins |
| 15:35.40 | Nom- | they're taking it down to fix i guess |
| 15:35.44 | nevcairiel | yay |
| 15:35.46 | nevcairiel | i can play tonigh |
| 15:35.57 | *** part/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:36.01 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:36.10 | digmouse | I'm running Oculus and after a wipe all other members stuck |
| 15:36.36 | Maldivia | well, that's what you get for wiping... :) |
| 15:36.46 | foxlit | Hm, I've got a question |
| 15:36.54 | Maldivia | 42 |
| 15:36.59 | foxlit | How does RunMacro() know which modifier keys to ignore? |
| 15:37.27 | Maldivia | it doesn't, but the modifier functions do |
| 15:37.47 | nevcairiel | Why would it ignore modifiers? |
| 15:38.08 | foxlit | Suppose we do |
| 15:38.32 | Nom- | I wouldn't be surprised if the US starts stealing ideas from us though to control the bandwidth problem... most ISP's in Australia shape users to 64K after their allowance |
| 15:38.34 | foxlit | SetAttributes(button, "type","macro", "macrotext","/cast [mod:alt] foo; [nomod] bar") |
| 15:38.45 | foxlit | SetBindingClick(button, "CTRL+B") |
| 15:38.58 | foxlit | Hitting CTRL+B would cast bar |
| 15:39.02 | foxlit | Ignoring the CTRL modifier |
| 15:39.07 | Nom- | Having said that, it's mainly a product of our international bandwidth being so scarce and expensive |
| 15:39.54 | Esine | Nom-, do you have very fast speeds inland though? |
| 15:39.56 | Esine | like in Japan |
| 15:40.40 | Nom- | For sure... I can max out my link from anywhere in Austrlaia |
| 15:40.57 | Esine | which is..? |
| 15:41.00 | cbreak | you need more cables :) |
| 15:41.02 | Nom- | I have 6Mbps |
| 15:41.06 | Esine | oh |
| 15:41.19 | digmouse | my only choise is a 180CNY/26USD 2Mbps ADSL |
| 15:41.24 | Nom- | I've got a mate who lives closer to the exchange... he's able to max out his 24Mbps link |
| 15:42.49 | Maldivia | foxlit: the binding click eats the ctrl, meaning whne the macro calls the IsModifierKeyDown to check the nomod, then it would recognize the ctrl, as it's already been "eaten" |
| 15:43.30 | wereHamster | 'would not recognize the ctrl' ? |
| 15:43.43 | Maldivia | won't :) |
| 15:43.44 | cbreak | it's funny, cablecom is a cable tv company, but when they entered the internet access bussiness they pissed off swisscom |
| 15:43.52 | Maldivia | wereHamster: so yeah :) |
| 15:43.54 | foxlit | I wonder how I can emulate that behavior |
| 15:44.13 | cbreak | swisscom is the former national telephone company. so they started offering digital TV over internet to piss off cablecom :) |
| 15:44.46 | foxlit | http://pastey.net/95534 is what I currently use to predict what a macro would do |
| 15:45.12 | foxlit | But that doesn't support the eat-modifiers behavior :( |
| 15:47.07 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:52.36 | Fogger | Coldarra been down long? |
| 15:53.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Tiven (n=Tifa@athedsl-94545.home.otenet.gr) |
| 15:53.16 | digmouse | seems most are down |
| 15:53.29 | Nom- | 23:34 < Nom-> shutdown in 11 mins |
| 15:53.35 | Nom- | It's now 23:52 |
| 15:53.53 | Nom- | That was Northrend US though... so dunno |
| 15:56.55 | Fogger | I suppose it would make more sense to update both at same time. thanks for info |
| 15:57.02 | [Liquidor] | How fast is an usual internet connection in the US? |
| 15:57.43 | [Liquidor] | ehm |
| 15:57.48 | [Liquidor] | an usual or a usual ? |
| 15:57.58 | Fogger | a |
| 15:58.12 | [Liquidor] | oh well |
| 15:58.18 | Maldivia | [Liquidor]: http://www.speedtest.net/global.php |
| 15:58.22 | Fogger | or "an average" :) |
| 15:58.25 | cbreak | what I read about the US is that they have tons of slow rural areas |
| 15:58.44 | [Liquidor] | So what about you guys? What do you got? |
| 16:00.41 | [Liquidor] | My city: http://www.speedtest.net/global.php?continent=3&country=12®ion=69&city=9456 |
| 16:01.03 | [Liquidor] | Altho I usually download with just 10Mbps |
| 16:05.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (n=N@c-98-218-229-122.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 16:05.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 16:05.35 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|Ecole] by ChanServ |
| 16:06.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=skullsho@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 16:06.02 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 16:06.11 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Nechckn] by ChanServ |
| 16:08.34 | [SW]Dodge | mhmm... my speedtest result is 191738kb/s o_o |
| 16:08.47 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 16:09.25 | [SW]Dodge | now 214474kb/s |
| 16:11.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Miyagui (i=miya@190.42.224.89) |
| 16:12.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Gngsk (n=Gngsk@c-69-138-214-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:12.47 | sacarasc | nice |
| 16:15.08 | *** join/#wowuidev copystring__ (n=copystri@p548A22C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:15.14 | [SW]Dodge | sacarasc: yea, but my router shows me 18972kBit/s for my connection (16022 usable) |
| 16:15.37 | sacarasc | that speed test site doesn't seem to have anywhere high speed enough for me ;( |
| 16:15.47 | sacarasc | it seems it caps out at about 10mbps |
| 16:16.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:16.48 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:16.55 | Shirik|Ecole | HI CIDE |
| 16:20.12 | Cide | hi |
| 16:21.02 | [SW]Dodge | sacarasc: i have 16mbps and i get the 190-215 mbps results :D |
| 16:24.01 | Esine | do you even have a NIC or a modem that supports those speeds |
| 16:24.59 | [SW]Dodge | Esine: i'm not sure. i belive 25mbit is max for my modem/router |
| 16:25.01 | foxlit | The Storm Peaks situation puzzles me |
| 16:25.25 | foxlit | What kind of trouble is their server architecture in if they need a client patch to stop the servers from crashing? |
| 16:26.09 | [SW]Dodge | foxlit: maybe client sends bugged packets :P |
| 16:26.42 | digmouse | realms still down |
| 16:27.08 | foxlit | [SW]Dodge: meh, that crash the server? |
| 16:27.18 | Cide | I would think that's a misunderstanding, but /shrug |
| 16:27.28 | Cide | it's worrying if any client can crash the server simply by sending some faked packets |
| 16:27.44 | [SW]Dodge | foxlit: dunno, maybe^^ but if yes they should not just fix it in the client :D |
| 16:28.04 | [SW]Dodge | foxlit: the server should be crashsave for bugged packets |
| 16:28.34 | Cide | Shirik|Ecole: what's up? |
| 16:28.49 | Shirik|Ecole | hi |
| 16:28.59 | Cide | hi |
| 16:29.28 | foxlit | That's pretty much it -- something is horribly wrong, or their explanation is imprecise. |
| 16:38.50 | wereHamster | Cide: I don't think it's that easy to fake packets |
| 16:39.25 | Cide | I'm sure it's possible, and if one player does it, it affects thousands |
| 16:39.44 | Cide | I'm positive they'll fix it, but still |
| 16:45.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@62.242.38.50) |
| 16:55.36 | wereHamster | what's the latest 3.0 build? |
| 16:55.45 | Neuro_Medivh | 8905 |
| 16:55.49 | wereHamster | yay |
| 16:55.59 | wereHamster | downloading last patch :) |
| 16:56.09 | Neuro_Medivh | don't go 'yay' so fast |
| 16:56.13 | Duman | heh |
| 16:56.17 | Neuro_Medivh | it's not like you can actually PLAY =) |
| 16:56.27 | Duman | servers haven't been up fof more than... hm... 20-30m at a time? |
| 16:56.28 | Duman | :) |
| 16:56.33 | wereHamster | -to-3.0.2.8905-enGB-patch.exe |
| 16:56.49 | wereHamster | I don't care about the servers, I just want it installed! |
| 16:59.02 | foxlit | "WAR will use the LUA coding system for its user interface, " |
| 16:59.12 | krka | foxlit: No reason to yell the name of the langage. |
| 16:59.13 | Neuro_Medivh | this last build is so buggy, it not only crashes the servers, it crashes your computer, crashes your car, steals your lunch money, and sleeps with your girlfriend. |
| 16:59.15 | Duman | yeah they use lua |
| 16:59.21 | wereHamster | 'coding system'? what's that? |
| 16:59.33 | Cairenn | for those of you that weren't in here when I first announced it, war.mmoui.com is now open: http://war.mmoui.com/index.php |
| 16:59.48 | foxlit | but meh, it's all user-contributed |
| 16:59.49 | Neuro_Medivh | I'm disappointed that their 'Open Beta' isn't really an open beta |
| 16:59.57 | Duman | it's pretty open |
| 17:00.00 | wereHamster | Neuro_Medivh: the most it can do is to crash wine. Unless there is a bug in the video drivers it won't bring down my whole computer ;) |
| 17:00.02 | foxlit | So I can't even /point /laugh at any major sites involved |
| 17:00.16 | Neuro_Medivh | Duman, open implies anyone can get in |
| 17:00.20 | Duman | altho my client has been patching for the last 2 hours |
| 17:00.25 | Neuro_Medivh | it's just another closed beta |
| 17:00.27 | Duman | anyone can get in |
| 17:00.34 | Neuro_Medivh | No, anyone who pre-orders can get in |
| 17:00.45 | Duman | no, you just need to spend $1 at target |
| 17:00.46 | Cairenn | or has a FilePlanet account |
| 17:01.30 | Neuro_Medivh | yeah, not a subscriber to Fileplanet |
| 17:01.40 | Neuro_Medivh | and I have no idea what the 1$ at target means |
| 17:02.22 | Duman | go to Target, buy the "pre-release" thing for $1, and it has a beta key in it |
| 17:02.22 | Neuro_Medivh | so aside from all that, how is the actual GAME, now that the NDA is up |
| 17:02.22 | Cide | I like how they even stole the path... "Interface/Addons/.." |
| 17:05.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@3908ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 17:06.59 | Cairenn | \game\interface [or ui or addon] is pretty standard |
| 17:08.06 | Cairenn | it was the same back in EQ and you can't say they stole that from WoW :p |
| 17:08.19 | Cide | but /Interface/Addons/<AddonName>/ seems like a decent ripoff |
| 17:08.46 | Cide | not unlike the whole game interface |
| 17:08.57 | End | hm, maybe I should try beta...my live server is crashing >_> |
| 17:09.01 | Neuro_Medivh | reminds me of that Picasso quote |
| 17:09.15 | Neuro_Medivh | "Good artists copy. Great artists steal." |
| 17:10.01 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@212251215177.customer.cdi.no) |
| 17:10.33 | Neuro_Medivh | whoops, misquoted. "Bad artists copy. Good artists steal." |
| 17:12.37 | Lyn | cant register for warhammer beta -.- site doesnt work |
| 17:19.16 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 17:22.25 | wereHamster | is there a wowuidev guild on the beta servers? |
| 17:23.33 | Hjalte | Yes, where are you playing? |
| 17:23.48 | wereHamster | to be honest, I don't know |
| 17:23.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:25.31 | digmouse | Northrend Alliance is Secure Templar |
| 17:25.40 | digmouse | horde is WTB API PST |
| 17:27.57 | Fisker- | EU Horde should be Disconnected from Server |
| 17:28.03 | Fisker- | and EU Alliance should be World Server Down |
| 17:28.28 | Fisker- | Atleast you get to test saving of savedvariables |
| 17:33.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=Dave@c-69-245-192-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 17:38.54 | p3lim | Lyn: what font do you use? |
| 17:39.31 | *** join/#wowuidev IdentifyTarget (n=Identify@241.23.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 17:51.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: ! you pinged me many hours ago! |
| 17:56.54 | Shirik|Ecole | ScytheBlade1: ! I thought I killed my server! |
| 17:56.58 | Shirik|Ecole | But then I didn't |
| 17:57.16 | zenzelezz | naga killed your server |
| 17:57.56 | ScytheBlade1 | I keep telling you to break stuff less |
| 17:58.00 | ScytheBlade1 | But you never listen |
| 18:03.38 | ScytheBlade1 | What did you do out of curiosity? |
| 18:08.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:12.46 | Nom- | my god |
| 18:12.51 | Nom- | i must be bored |
| 18:13.01 | |pez| | I *am* bored :D |
| 18:13.03 | Nom- | i just replied to like everything on the first page of a forum |
| 18:13.29 | Nom- | I don't even know how it happened, but now it's like got my name against everything on page 1 |
| 18:13.33 | Nom- | lol |
| 18:20.30 | End | wtf... |
| 18:20.36 | End | I just resisted 1 falling damage |
| 18:20.53 | kd3 | yah, I've been seeing that too |
| 18:21.05 | ScytheBlade1 | the combat event was changed, they added a return |
| 18:21.17 | ScytheBlade1 | and didn't update the stock combat log to mirror that change |
| 18:21.32 | Lyn | p3lim, where? |
| 18:22.29 | p3lim | everywhere |
| 18:23.09 | Lyn | chat, tooltips, etc: newcastle demi |
| 18:23.15 | Lyn | uf: swiss 721 |
| 18:31.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host86-147-211-102.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:32.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias1 (n=Dave@c-69-245-192-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 18:41.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-157-18-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 18:43.09 | p3lim | ok thanks :) |
| 18:43.56 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 18:44.56 | *** join/#wowuidev H3llSinG (i=miya@190.232.182.178) |
| 18:46.40 | p3lim | whats the diffrence between IncomingHeals and CommHeal? |
| 18:46.48 | p3lim | HealComm* |
| 18:47.37 | wereHamster | the author! |
| 18:49.12 | haste | the code! |
| 18:50.24 | zenzelezz | the name |
| 18:50.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 18:50.25 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|Ecole] by ChanServ |
| 18:50.49 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@cm-84.215.134.225.getinternet.no) |
| 18:50.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=skullsho@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 18:50.50 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 18:52.54 | Hjalte | p3lim: It looks to me, as a user, as if they are doing exactly the same. |
| 18:53.11 | p3lim | and crappy docs makes it hard to find out |
| 18:53.30 | p3lim | Id like to find out which of those are the best, and why |
| 18:55.48 | haste | 1. compare the code 2. Don't be lazy 3. ??? 4. profit! |
| 18:58.06 | Shirik|Ecole | "I'm slowly working on a little Ruby on Rails app to manage my assload of addons." |
| 18:58.15 | Tekkub | ow |
| 18:58.57 | Shirik|Ecole | I randomly found your blog that hasn't been updated in 6 months :P |
| 18:59.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Jagannath (i=Jagannat@75.42.179.158) |
| 18:59.18 | Tekkub | it was only used for release announcements, I gave up and went to weekend builds |
| 18:59.23 | Shirik|Ecole | :) |
| 18:59.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (i=amarande@24-151-54-237.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 19:02.50 | Shirik|Ecole | Words of Wisdom: If applying to a top-level guild on a server, try to make sure the subject of your post is not spelled "70 Palidan" |
| 19:03.08 | End | lol |
| 19:03.28 | Kaso | Even putting your level on is a bit silly for a top level guild i think |
| 19:03.42 | Kaso | who would even apply who isnt max level |
| 19:04.09 | Shirik|Ecole | good point |
| 19:04.30 | End | some people do, which is kinda funny |
| 19:04.46 | Shirik|Ecole | "When I get to 70 I can kill Illidan with you!" |
| 19:04.53 | End | lol |
| 19:06.42 | zenzelezz | im ready to join ur bt as soon as i hit 70 im allready attunet to shadowmoon valley |
| 19:10.11 | Amarande | Shirik: I just saw a guild on Turalyon try to recruit people to do "heriocs" |
| 19:10.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:11.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-76-115-111-253.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:11.59 | Shirik|Ecole | but that can be a typo |
| 19:12.02 | Shirik|Ecole | Palidan cannot be |
| 19:12.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Anyone know if the premades come with a flying mount? (beta) |
| 19:12.36 | End | that'd be absurd if they didn't |
| 19:13.09 | End | can you even get into wintergrasp without a flying mount? or will someone teleport you in now? |
| 19:13.09 | ScytheBlade1 | They start with 5k gold |
| 19:13.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope |
| 19:13.32 | End | 5k gold isn't even enough |
| 19:13.53 | ScytheBlade1 | It is to buy a *flying* mount :P |
| 19:14.18 | End | yeah, ok have fun not flying your flying mount |
| 19:14.36 | End | unless they start with the skill but no mount |
| 19:14.45 | foxlit | nobody said "epic" :) |
| 19:14.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm, which brings the next question.. |
| 19:14.49 | End | in which case |
| 19:14.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Regular or epic flying mount? |
| 19:14.53 | End | have fun going to smv :P |
| 19:15.05 | foxlit | Dalaran has a flying trainer |
| 19:15.09 | End | yes |
| 19:15.13 | ScytheBlade1 | It'd probably more stable than Northrend ;D |
| 19:15.14 | End | but a trainer can't give you a mount |
| 19:15.22 | End | or she can't |
| 19:15.28 | foxlit | ew, foiled again |
| 19:15.33 | foxlit | Fine, port to Archeus :( |
| 19:15.51 | End | not every premade is a dk? |
| 19:15.52 | End | well |
| 19:15.56 | End | I shouldn't say that |
| 19:16.00 | End | every premade might be >_> |
| 19:16.14 | End | actually |
| 19:16.20 | End | I wonder if my copy went through |
| 19:16.32 | End | I did it yesterday, but didn't check |
| 19:17.11 | foxlit | It's a pity I can't link individual wowi file comments |
| 19:17.13 | End | damn, no copy yet |
| 19:17.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik|Ecole: poke |
| 19:17.39 | foxlit | "Hello must say realy nice addon i use it for some of mine buttons that i cant bid key but i miss 1 thing, can it be fixed ?" |
| 19:17.56 | foxlit | and it continues like that |
| 19:18.35 | cladhaire | amazing |
| 19:19.07 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@cpc3-oxfd7-0-0-cust275.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:19.28 | cladhaire | u8hh |
| 19:21.01 | p3lim | getting this error when I try to change colors for chat channels: |
| 19:21.03 | p3lim | Interface\FrameXML\ChatConfigFrame.lua:975: attempt to index global 'CHATCONFIG_SELECTED_FILTER_SETTINGS' (a nil value) |
| 19:21.09 | p3lim | anyone knows? |
| 19:21.28 | Cide | it means that CHATCONFIG_SELECTED_FILTER_SETTINGS is nil |
| 19:22.19 | foxlit | >> Cide:SetHelpful(true); |
| 19:22.42 | cbreak | attempt to index global 'Cide' (a nil value) |
| 19:22.56 | foxlit | :( |
| 19:23.08 | Cide | I'm always defined |
| 19:23.33 | cbreak | Bruce Schneier is always defined... |
| 19:23.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Did anyone else get their realm forum outright blasted in keyloggers? |
| 19:24.11 | ScytheBlade1 | See: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=11186&sid=1 |
| 19:24.16 | Pneumatus | sexleg? |
| 19:24.18 | cbreak | realm forum? :) |
| 19:24.26 | ScytheBlade1 | No, no sexlegs |
| 19:24.35 | ScytheBlade1 | We literally have >100 keylogger posts on the first page there |
| 19:24.50 | ScytheBlade1 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9336869817&sid=1 |
| 19:24.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Last three are all keyloggers |
| 19:24.56 | foxlit | Call me when it reaches >9000 |
| 19:24.57 | Fisker- | sounds great |
| 19:24.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Repeated over every thread on there |
| 19:25.12 | Pneumatus | >9k sexleg would be worth a look |
| 19:25.38 | Fisker- | post limit >:3 |
| 19:25.48 | Lyn | moo |
| 19:30.55 | Fisker- | no u |
| 19:31.33 | Lyn | no u |
| 19:31.38 | Lyn | :O |
| 19:31.48 | Thunder_Child | you both fail |
| 19:32.03 | Lyn | no u *imitates fisker* |
| 19:32.26 | foxlit | Presence of Fisker- increases concentration of Fisker-ness in the channel over time |
| 19:32.47 | Lyn | So Fisker- is a DoT? |
| 19:33.08 | foxlit | If Fisker- was a DoT, he'd be Corrupted Blood. |
| 19:35.54 | |pez| | Question! If you were buying a theme for.... some CMS system, and you had to wait for the seller to manually send you the file... would you actually feel it was worth the wait? :P |
| 19:36.08 | |pez| | My eCommerce software of choice do not have downloadable products yet. |
| 19:36.36 | foxlit | I wouldn't buy a theme for... some CMS system. |
| 19:36.46 | foxlit | [Department of Redundancy department strikes again] |
| 19:37.01 | |pez| | (ok, the cms in question is WordPress) |
| 19:38.23 | foxlit | s/some/any |
| 19:38.37 | |pez| | ok |
| 19:38.51 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:38.51 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 19:38.52 | foxlit | I mean, chances are, if I'm buying it from a "shop" |
| 19:38.58 | foxlit | It won't ever be unique to me |
| 19:39.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 19:39.08 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|Ecole] by ChanServ |
| 19:39.13 | |pez| | but back to the question, would you be a sadpanda if you had to wait a hour or two to get it in your e-mail? |
| 19:39.32 | foxlit | So there's really little point. Contractual web design is more interesting, but I still probably would rather play with it myself than pay someone else to do it. |
| 19:39.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=skullsho@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 19:39.37 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 19:40.04 | |pez| | Your still not answering my question though. :P |
| 19:40.19 | cladhaire | no i wouldn't if it had some sort of personal touch |
| 19:40.23 | foxlit | I'd be a sad panda earlier |
| 19:40.30 | cladhaire | if its just stock 80,000 other people can buy it, then i wouldn't like it |
| 19:40.45 | cladhaire | and depends on if you do theming for my cms of choice :P |
| 19:41.00 | foxlit | I wouldn't mind to wait, but |
| 19:41.11 | |pez| | But ok, so bthe conclusion is that, if you felt the theme was worth it, you wouldn't mind the wait? :P |
| 19:41.15 | foxlit | There's that issue of trust in paying you money and then getting virtually nothing in return |
| 19:41.20 | cladhaire | in theory, yes |
| 19:41.31 | cladhaire | aws long as i'm not emailing you my cc info |
| 19:41.41 | cladhaire | cause thats not gonna happen :P |
| 19:41.46 | |pez| | cladhaire: I'd be a online shop thing. |
| 19:42.03 | cladhaire | i dont mind delivery being delayed |
| 19:42.08 | cladhaire | if paying isn't a keylogger :P |
| 19:42.13 | cladhaire | and the theme was worth it |
| 19:42.16 | |pez| | Alright |
| 19:42.20 | |pez| | yay for that then. XD |
| 19:42.30 | |pez| | Thanks. |
| 19:43.01 | |pez| | It's also really just a temporary solution until my eCommerce software of choice gets downloadable products. |
| 19:43.46 | foxlit | build it yourself? |
| 19:44.32 | foxlit | Could just link a password-protected zip |
| 19:44.36 | foxlit | And mail the password in the receipt |
| 19:46.09 | cladhaire | 4943 gold |
| 19:46.20 | cladhaire | so close |
| 19:46.25 | Shirik|Ecole | foxlit: It's pretty much crap |
| 19:46.41 | foxlit | Shirik: It's AES-256 |
| 19:47.19 | |pez| | I don't want to make my own eCommerce solution. |
| 19:47.30 | Shirik|Ecole | no it isn't |
| 19:47.32 | Shirik|Ecole | not from what I'm reading |
| 19:47.47 | foxlit | We're clearly reading different things. What are you reading? |
| 19:47.50 | Shirik|Ecole | In fact, this very sentence: "AES encryption is much stronger than standard ZIP encryption, which is regarded by security experts as being unsecure." |
| 19:47.57 | Amarande | heh, someone should try "WTS keylogger" in trade chat. :) |
| 19:48.24 | Shirik|Ecole | http://www.pcworld.com/article/109130/original_zip_program_revamped.html# |
| 19:48.26 | Amarande | after all, keylogger victims did pretty much end up buying said keylogger LOL |
| 19:48.43 | Amarande | Or "Please install this software so you can give me all your money for free" |
| 19:48.55 | foxlit | There's no AES in that article :( |
| 19:49.04 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah there is |
| 19:49.05 | foxlit | ah, they spelled it out |
| 19:49.09 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah |
| 19:49.24 | foxlit | "For version 6, the company uses RSA Security's BSAFE technology to add 256-bit Advanced Encryption Standard encryption, which was developed by the U.S. government for unclassified information." |
| 19:49.36 | Shirik|Ecole | Yes, but if you read the whole thing you'll also realize that this is non-standard :) |
| 19:49.42 | Shirik|Ecole | and that only this program can do that (supposedly) |
| 19:49.50 | foxlit | wikipedia disagrees |
| 19:49.52 | Shirik|Ecole | "The basic problem with improved encryption, of course, is that it conflicts with the established, ubiquitous .zip file format. If you create an encrypted .zip file in PKZip and use an encryption option other than traditional PKWare Encryption, you've got a file no other .zip program can read." |
| 19:50.04 | Amarande | Isn't there some way that 2048 bit GPG could be shoehorned into e-commerce? |
| 19:50.05 | foxlit | "In the end, PKWARE and WinZip agreed to support each other's products. On 2004-01-21, PKWARE announced the support of WinZip-based AES compression format." |
| 19:50.19 | Shirik|Ecole | ah |
| 19:50.28 | Shirik|Ecole | my article's from 2003 :) |
| 19:51.19 | Shirik|Ecole | I will agree that AES-256 is good :) |
| 19:53.26 | |pez| | I could ofcourse make my own module for Magento, which has some sort of product download link generator. |
| 19:53.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 19:53.53 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (n=zenzelez@062249182162.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 19:55.16 | Shirik|Ecole | How am I supposed to be able to get any work done if they keep making this thing not even turn on |
| 19:55.53 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly|Ghost (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 19:57.29 | foxlit | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10062-VindictiveDKPTable.html |
| 19:57.46 | foxlit | I wonder why they feel the need to post those on public webpages rather than their own forums. |
| 19:58.10 | Amarande | hmm |
| 19:58.17 | Amarande | someone in trade is trying to sell a beta key for gold ... is that allowed? |
| 19:58.46 | Shirik|Ecole | probably not |
| 19:59.11 | alestane | I don't think you're supposed to trade in-game gold for outside goods, services or privileges, including beta access. |
| 20:01.11 | cbreak | does he mean real life gold? :) |
| 20:01.40 | Amarande | I think he means the wow kind, lol |
| 20:02.39 | cbreak | och... :( |
| 20:03.08 | cbreak | ah well, if someone wants to stare at the login screen, maybe we can make him a movie for free. |
| 20:03.28 | foxlit | brilliant! |
| 20:03.33 | foxlit | live-cast the screen animation |
| 20:04.03 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsoRayne (n=chatzill@pool-71-251-128-122.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:04.15 | AbsoRayne | oh hai |
| 20:04.55 | foxlit | http://www.wowace.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/4/4c/Prat3Dialog4.jpg/800px-Prat3Dialog4.jpg |
| 20:05.13 | foxlit | Finally, a config dialog I can get lost in :) |
| 20:05.22 | Amarande | oh, and most importantly, of course |
| 20:05.25 | Amarande | how is bartender doing with wotlk? |
| 20:05.33 | Amarande | I would be lost without Bartender |
| 20:06.04 | nevcairiel | If you know how to use SVN or Git, you'll be fine |
| 20:06.15 | Amarande | I already know EBB lost some functionality, I'm rather hoping that other addons I use won't also become partial or total dodos |
| 20:06.18 | nevcairiel | The Wotlk version is just not released anywhere |
| 20:06.30 | Amarande | or did they manage to fix EBB somehow to allow you to click-off buffs from it? |
| 20:07.08 | foxlit | It's too early to worry about addons disappearing. :) |
| 20:07.21 | Amarande | or is click-off of buffs going to simply become an exclusive privilege for people who can find the screen real estate to have the traditional Blizzard buff icons somewhere? |
| 20:08.08 | Amarande | I heard Blizzard decided to make that 'protected' functionality, for no reason anyone can really figure out |
| 20:08.19 | alestane | We're hoping not. The only thing that really needs to be protected is canceling shapeshift forms. |
| 20:08.24 | foxlit | The reason is simple |
| 20:08.27 | Shirik|Ecole | Amarande: It's very simple reason |
| 20:08.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 20:08.29 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 20:08.33 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:08.35 | Shirik|Ecole | Druids cancel cat form to help make decisions |
| 20:08.39 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:08.55 | Amarande | Shirik: seems silly to me, especially given the mana cost to go back into form afterwards |
| 20:09.03 | Shirik|Ecole | except that you get 40 free energy |
| 20:09.08 | Corgan | not anymore |
| 20:09.12 | Corgan | they changed that. |
| 20:09.16 | Shirik|Ecole | what are you talking about |
| 20:09.17 | Cide | a simple solution would be to remove the ability to cancel a form, and just make it so you have to "cast" Caster Form |
| 20:09.24 | foxlit | But it's not the energy that's going to be abused |
| 20:09.34 | foxlit | Shirik: they changed furor, you can't use it to gain anything anymore |
| 20:09.35 | Cide | the energy shifting has been fixed |
| 20:09.38 | Amarande | this is going to make netherwing dailies somewhat more irritating, though |
| 20:09.42 | foxlit | It's more like |
| 20:09.47 | Shirik|Ecole | on beta or live |
| 20:09.50 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:09.55 | Amarande | I have yet to figure out a reliable way to get off your flying mount without glitches on Netherwing Ledge, other than to click-off the mount |
| 20:09.58 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:10.10 | AbsoRayne | |Jelly|: HEY |
| 20:10.20 | p3lim | need a new gname |
| 20:10.28 | p3lim | current suggestion is <Insert Coin> |
| 20:10.30 | Amarande | If you click your mount button to dismiss the mount (as you would normally do to dismount), well ... you automatically try to get back on your flying mount as soon as you're off |
| 20:10.33 | p3lim | I just dont want that:p |
| 20:10.35 | cbreak | using form as a method to track state seems like a terrible and only marginally useful hack. |
| 20:10.39 | foxlit | <Your UIParent> |
| 20:10.43 | Amarande | p3lim: <Galileo Figaro>? |
| 20:10.50 | Shirik|Ecole | cbreak, you underestimate its capabilities |
| 20:10.57 | Shirik|Ecole | and the fact that it exists at all is enough |
| 20:10.59 | p3lim | not a lua-name |
| 20:11.05 | cbreak | oh, I don't |
| 20:11.10 | cbreak | but the price is high |
| 20:11.17 | p3lim | its for a normal guild |
| 20:11.18 | cbreak | you can only use it to track binary state |
| 20:11.26 | Amarande | p3lim: Galileo Figaro, then. :) |
| 20:11.31 | Shirik|Ecole | How many if statements evaluate to a boolean condition? |
| 20:11.32 | Amarande | If you don't get it, you need to listen to more Queen. |
| 20:11.37 | p3lim | i dont get it :p |
| 20:11.42 | cbreak | and it costs a lot of setup cost |
| 20:11.45 | p3lim | and I have all albums by queen |
| 20:11.46 | p3lim | so.. |
| 20:11.48 | Amarande | LOL, it's from Bohemian Rhapsody |
| 20:11.53 | p3lim | Fiigaro, fiigaro? |
| 20:11.55 | p3lim | that one |
| 20:12.06 | cbreak | like EEPROM, writing is cheap (canceling), but preparing for write is expensive |
| 20:12.06 | p3lim | I still dont get it :p |
| 20:12.21 | Shirik|Ecole | I don't see what that has to do with anything |
| 20:12.25 | Cide | preparing for write doesn't cost anything |
| 20:12.30 | Cide | it's useful if you're already in a form |
| 20:12.36 | Amarande | Anyway, I'm assuming this protected functionality then means that the ONLY way to be able to click off buffs |
| 20:12.45 | Cide | it's not like you have to enter a form to begin with |
| 20:12.45 | Amarande | is to be able to have THAT area on the upper right corner of your screen free, however your UI is designed? |
| 20:12.49 | foxlit | Amarande: you're assuming too early |
| 20:12.59 | nevcairiel | You where able to move them |
| 20:13.05 | Amarande | or does right-clicking x-perl's buff icons still work |
| 20:13.09 | nevcairiel | just not create new ones |
| 20:13.10 | foxlit | We don't have a magical glowing orb that can tell you whether that change will stick around |
| 20:13.14 | Shirik|Ecole | Anyone here ever used DDD before? |
| 20:13.18 | foxlit | I heard it's actually reverted in the last build. |
| 20:13.22 | Amarande | fox: good |
| 20:13.35 | foxlit | It may well return in the one after that |
| 20:13.36 | Amarande | if that persisted, I would have to somehow find $200-300 to invest to keep my UI as desired |
| 20:13.43 | cbreak | I mean if you want to do auto decursing, you'd need a lot more than just one bit of state |
| 20:13.46 | cladhaire | O.o |
| 20:13.49 | cbreak | for example |
| 20:13.51 | Amarande | heh |
| 20:14.00 | nevcairiel | How can money buy you functionality thats not possible to do? |
| 20:14.01 | Amarande | because I don't have room for blizzard buff icons without buying a widescreen monitor |
| 20:14.01 | cladhaire | Amarande: that has to be the wierdest statement I've ever heard. |
| 20:14.02 | cladhaire | I don't get it. |
| 20:14.07 | Shirik|Ecole | cbreak: It obviously can't do everything, but it can do a lot |
| 20:14.14 | Amarande | cladhaire: screen real estate issues |
| 20:14.24 | nevcairiel | imho, EBB even uses more space then the blizz buttons |
| 20:14.25 | Cide | stupidity issues |
| 20:14.30 | foxlit | I'm with nev |
| 20:14.31 | cbreak | yes, one bit decisions :/ Maybe conditional usage of that pvp trinket or so |
| 20:14.33 | Cide | of course |
| 20:14.37 | Amarande | I can't use the Blizzard buff icons with my favored UI design on a non-widescreen monitor |
| 20:14.39 | Amarande | because there's not enough room. |
| 20:14.44 | AbsoRayne | http://hdimage.org/images/3n8zd0tudr5y5xdzyts0_ocrnhot090708142944.png WIP, Thoughts anyone? |
| 20:14.48 | nevcairiel | You can reposition the icons all you want btw |
| 20:14.54 | nevcairiel | you just cant create new ones |
| 20:14.58 | Shirik|Ecole | Hoping that Elk doesn't kill me, but I stopped using EBB when it went to Ace |
| 20:15.05 | Shirik|Ecole | not because it's Ace, but because, imo, it became too much |
| 20:15.14 | Cide | AbsoRayne: /vomit |
| 20:15.22 | Cide | chat is like half the size it should be |
| 20:15.22 | Corgan | [10:11:24] <Amarande> p3lim: Galileo Figaro, then. :) |
| 20:15.24 | Corgan | Magnifico |
| 20:15.41 | Cide | the font is hard on the eyes |
| 20:15.42 | foxlit | AbsoRayne: that looks like my "is my screen broken" screenshot |
| 20:15.49 | foxlit | NEVER screenshot the shattrah sky. |
| 20:15.51 | Corgan | I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me :< |
| 20:15.56 | cbreak | AbsoRayne: That UI lacks information :) |
| 20:16.08 | Cide | the minimap is too small |
| 20:16.28 | Cide | the lines that fade out were cool a year ago |
| 20:16.52 | Cide | the faded out health and mana bars are barely visible |
| 20:17.00 | Cide | but other than that, looks good |
| 20:18.50 | AbsoRayne | I just have to ask this, because you always say barely visible |
| 20:18.56 | AbsoRayne | Are you half blind or something? |
| 20:20.07 | nevcairiel | it is barely visible |
| 20:20.11 | Cide | I have perfect vision, but no desire to focus my eyes for <long time> just to read or see something |
| 20:20.13 | nevcairiel | i agree with Cide |
| 20:20.14 | cbreak | maybe higher resolution screen than you do :) |
| 20:20.24 | cbreak | higher resolution makes things look smaller |
| 20:20.32 | Cide | 1680x1050 |
| 20:20.46 | nevcairiel | same |
| 20:20.50 | nevcairiel | that might be it =P |
| 20:20.54 | cbreak | resolution is measured in dpi, strangely enough. I always wondered |
| 20:20.55 | Esine | that's low resolution :| 2048x1536 ;) |
| 20:21.00 | cbreak | why it was not something like dots per cm or so |
| 20:21.13 | Cide | I run 3360x1050 |
| 20:21.23 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics1 (n=cncfanat@165.158-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 20:21.34 | Esine | well ok, to be exact I have 3648x1356 with second monitor included |
| 20:21.38 | Esine | but I was talking about my primary monitor |
| 20:21.57 | cbreak | ultra mega doulbe wide screen? :) |
| 20:22.04 | cbreak | or just anamorph? |
| 20:22.10 | Cide | >>> 2048/1536, 1680/1050 |
| 20:22.10 | Cide | Cide: 1.3333333333333, 1.6 |
| 20:22.17 | Esine | cbreak, how about a 21" CRT that displays colors and black correctly |
| 20:22.26 | Esine | and not a TFT where blacks look like grays |
| 20:22.29 | Cide | it's not widescreen :P |
| 20:22.46 | Cide | CRTlol |
| 20:22.51 | Cide | welcome to 1995 |
| 20:22.52 | cbreak | >>> 3360/1050 |
| 20:22.53 | Cide | cbreak: 3.2 |
| 20:23.06 | ccox | almost can't see the game chat for all the "a buy has been found for your glyph of XXXX" |
| 20:23.13 | Cide | cbreak: that's 1680 * 2 / 1050 (i.e. 2 monitors) |
| 20:23.14 | ccox | s/buy/buyer |
| 20:23.15 | cbreak | I never liked the unsharpness and flickering of crts |
| 20:23.33 | Esine | 85Hz 8) |
| 20:23.40 | cbreak | ccox: you need bank alt :) |
| 20:23.51 | Esine | ccox, how much do all those glyph things go for? |
| 20:23.55 | ccox | cbreak - yes, but it's this toon that I'm levelling inscription on |
| 20:24.05 | ccox | esine - low level stuff is 3-5g each |
| 20:24.12 | cbreak | I've seen some for 300gold upwards |
| 20:24.14 | ccox | higher level stuff is selling at 100-200g each |
| 20:24.20 | cbreak | one high level for mages was 800 |
| 20:24.28 | Esine | still not much compared to how useful they are |
| 20:24.36 | cbreak | depends |
| 20:24.37 | ccox | I've been laddering the prices, and for some it still sells at 200g |
| 20:24.41 | cbreak | money on beta is worthless |
| 20:24.43 | Esine | do they apply to one ability rank or just the whole ability even if you level/buy new ranks? |
| 20:24.48 | ccox | chain lightining was popular :-) |
| 20:25.00 | cbreak | they are per character, not per spell esine |
| 20:25.09 | Esine | yes |
| 20:25.23 | ccox | of course, now I'm pissing off some guy trying to farm mageroyal - because he just figured out the area I've been farming for the past week and a half |
| 20:25.36 | cbreak | someone paid me 1k gold for a dalaran portal on beta... |
| 20:25.40 | Esine | but if you have level 10 who you use this glyph on does it still work on lvl 80 when you have Rank 1000 of the said ability? |
| 20:25.56 | Esine | .. after leveling* |
| 20:26.09 | cbreak | they apply to all spell ranks as far as I know |
| 20:26.12 | Esine | ok |
| 20:26.37 | cbreak | I think many are not working at all yet though |
| 20:26.40 | ccox | yes, most are percentage changes, or specific tweaks (increased range, decreased time, etc.) |
| 20:27.22 | Shirik|Ecole | rofl, this game is awesome! I found some game where you have to save little penguins from borg-like bill gateses |
| 20:27.37 | AbsoRayne | foxlit: Better? I was just using the sky shot to make sure my panels were aligned right: http://hdimage.org/images/mgurdqqh7j2ux7vtg3m_ocrnhot090708162430.png |
| 20:27.42 | cbreak | sounds like OSS propaganda |
| 20:28.24 | cbreak | AbsoRayne: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info6153-Align.html (haven't used myself) |
| 20:28.35 | Esine | Shirik|Ecole, link link :P |
| 20:28.52 | AbsoRayne | cbreak: I use it :P |
| 20:28.58 | AbsoRayne | Just like to double check though |
| 20:29.00 | *** join/#wowuidev rufus__ (n=rufus@c-98-226-41-174.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:29.01 | Shirik|Ecole | I don't have a link :( It was on my QNX install system (like Yum) |
| 20:29.10 | Esine | oo |
| 20:29.16 | Shirik|Ecole | here: http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/defendguin/ |
| 20:29.27 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@cm-84.215.134.225.getinternet.no) |
| 20:29.38 | Esine | yay. it's on portage :) emerge defendguin here I come |
| 20:29.43 | Tem | AbsoRayne, I smell downranking |
| 20:29.51 | Tem | bad AbsoRayne |
| 20:29.55 | Tem | druids don't downrank |
| 20:29.55 | AbsoRayne | Tem: Situational |
| 20:29.58 | cbreak | downranking will be expensive :/ |
| 20:30.03 | cbreak | since all spells will cost the same |
| 20:30.05 | cbreak | all ranks that is |
| 20:30.10 | Tem | not quite, cbreak |
| 20:30.16 | Tem | lower rank spells actually cost MORE |
| 20:30.21 | Tem | which boggles my mind |
| 20:30.23 | cbreak | how so? |
| 20:30.37 | AbsoRayne | I downrank for the tard who stands in the fire / black holes / thing you shouldnt be standing in |
| 20:30.49 | Tem | because that's how it works, cbreak |
| 20:30.54 | Tem | AbsoRayne, don't heal those tards |
| 20:31.00 | Tem | let them die |
| 20:31.01 | cbreak | I mean: aren't spell prices in percentages now? |
| 20:31.03 | Amarande | you know, I've always wondered about the wisdom of that |
| 20:31.09 | AbsoRayne | I like to finish instances, and not waste my Brs on em |
| 20:31.11 | Amarande | also, the wisdom of withholding fort from people who bug you to renew it |
| 20:31.13 | cbreak | so lower rank spells actually use a higher percentage? |
| 20:31.23 | Cide | if you like to finish instances, why downrank? |
| 20:31.27 | Amarande | I mean ... isn't that a good way to produce group drama and sabotage your chances of making it through the instance in one piece? :) |
| 20:31.29 | Cide | cbreak: yes |
| 20:31.31 | Tem | cbreak, yes |
| 20:31.36 | cbreak | that's dumb. |
| 20:31.40 | Cide | nope |
| 20:31.42 | Cide | it makes perfect sense |
| 20:31.49 | Amarande | "gee this guy is rude so we'll withhold buffs and healing and thus make sure that the entire group wipes" |
| 20:32.05 | Tem | Amarande, I don't run out of mana |
| 20:32.07 | Tem | ever |
| 20:32.12 | Amarande | chances are, if you have noobs like that in your group, it means you need to give your 110%, not your 90% :) |
| 20:32.13 | Tem | -ever- |
| 20:32.21 | Tem | Not even Kazrogal can oom me |
| 20:32.40 | kd3 | whee, 78% done with the furby grind |
| 20:32.45 | cbreak | :O |
| 20:32.47 | Cide | they wanted to retain the balance from before, and the mana/level curve didn't match the spell mana cost curve |
| 20:32.50 | cbreak | you actually do that? |
| 20:32.54 | Cide | ^ why lower ranks cost more |
| 20:33.06 | kd3 | I'm doing it for the runecloth so I can raise gnomer/exodar too |
| 20:33.08 | cbreak | ... how iregular :( |
| 20:33.09 | kd3 | and wintersaber |
| 20:33.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Dekster_ (n=chatzill@netblock-68-183-40-143.dslextreme.com) |
| 20:33.20 | cbreak | one of my guild just completed those |
| 20:33.29 | Amarande | kd3: not to mention tailoring 280-300 just needs that damn much runecloth |
| 20:33.30 | cbreak | and he's now exalted with all four goblin towns too |
| 20:33.35 | cbreak | and with all capitals |
| 20:33.41 | cbreak | I think he's crazy. |
| 20:33.42 | Amarande | I still remember when my lock was still on Turalyon, where I have a priest tailor |
| 20:33.46 | Amarande | well, priest was at 285 or so tailoring |
| 20:33.57 | kd3 | I've got 20-some-odd factions exalted atm |
| 20:33.58 | Tem | anyone able to connect to beta atm? |
| 20:34.04 | alestane | Yes. |
| 20:34.08 | alestane | US anyway. |
| 20:34.16 | Tem | ah nevermind, I finally got it |
| 20:34.17 | Amarande | lock, I refused to go to Outland till I had my dreadsteed ... anyway, while I was waiting for a scholo group, I farmed the hell out of the tower guys, the ones that can drop crusader |
| 20:34.23 | *** join/#wowuidev dabujo (i=xx@p4FDB32E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:34.24 | Amarande | had like 450 runecloth or so I think |
| 20:34.32 | Amarande | and it was still JUST BARELY enough to get Amarelya's tailoring from 285-300 |
| 20:34.34 | Tem | it was just sitting at "Success" for a something like 3 minutes |
| 20:35.00 | AbsoRayne | Amarande: Im continued to be impressed by Warlocks in Outland without it, and when they see one they go 'omg how dod you get that?!' |
| 20:35.02 | cbreak | coldara seems up. |
| 20:35.04 | AbsoRayne | I die a little inside |
| 20:35.08 | Tem | cbreak, Rank 13 Healing Touch: 819 Mana |
| 20:35.17 | Tem | cbreak, Rank 13 HT: 943 |
| 20:35.34 | Tem | cbreak, Ranks 1-13: 943 |
| 20:35.55 | Cide | tem fails |
| 20:35.57 | Amarande | Abso, I get a feeling a lot of locks just give up on it |
| 20:36.07 | Tem | er |
| 20:36.09 | Tem | 1-12 |
| 20:36.17 | Amarande | it literally took me over a week to get a scholo group |
| 20:36.23 | Amarande | by the time I got it all done, I dinged 62 in DM |
| 20:36.33 | cbreak | blizzard rank 1-6 cost 2140, rank 7 and 8 cost 1778. interesting. |
| 20:36.45 | Esine | 2140 gold?! |
| 20:36.46 | Amarande | simply from all the grinding I was doing to pass the time |
| 20:36.54 | cbreak | mana esine, mana. :) |
| 20:36.58 | Shirik|Ecole | ~failtem |
| 20:37.00 | Esine | oh right |
| 20:37.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Kyahx (n=Kyahx@144.13.213.50) |
| 20:37.40 | cbreak | well, grats for your mount amarande :) I remember helping paladins with the scholo part |
| 20:37.52 | cbreak | it's more fun than just paying up at a vendor like mages have to do :/ |
| 20:37.52 | AbsoRayne | Oh snap im outta reagents, and about to run Bot |
| 20:37.53 | AbsoRayne | gg |
| 20:38.06 | Shirik|Ecole | Dolby's not around, Shadowed, what do you need? |
| 20:38.28 | Shadowed | Just tweaking the mod uploader, and trying to find a good name for the "wgp" field since that keeps getting reused |
| 20:38.36 | Shadowed | right now it's "Does it work with WoTLK", before it was "Does it work with 2.4" ect |
| 20:39.23 | Shirik|Ecole | Just put "WGP?" and let them figure it out |
| 20:39.26 | Shirik|Ecole | :P |
| 20:39.31 | Shadowed | I'm kind of tempted to do that actually |
| 20:39.38 | Cide | that's bad |
| 20:39.44 | foxlit | scrape the upload page and use its wording |
| 20:39.58 | Cide | "Does it work with %s?" and grab %s from the server |
| 20:40.16 | Shadowed | you need to be logged in to access that page, and this is shown before you give login info |
| 20:40.21 | Shadowed | (This is just for the -help part) |
| 20:40.35 | Shirik|Ecole | use your login |
| 20:40.47 | Shadowed | ? |
| 20:41.05 | Shirik|Ecole | Have it tempoarily log in as Shadowed |
| 20:41.08 | Shadowed | yea |
| 20:41.09 | Shirik|Ecole | to pick out that part |
| 20:41.10 | Shadowed | I'll get right on that :p |
| 20:41.11 | Shirik|Ecole | :P |
| 20:41.57 | Shadowed | "-work Works with the latest patch (See WoWI for what this currently is)" it is |
| 20:42.33 | cog|away | http://cogwheel.info/upload/files/Potatomato.jpg |
| 20:43.20 | Esine | oh oh oh cog|away is Cogwheel from the forums! |
| 20:43.37 | Esine | I didn't realize that! cog|away, I don't fully get you. Do you work for Blizzard? why do you have green text? :( |
| 20:44.08 | cog|away | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=82238231&sid=1#1 |
| 20:44.26 | Shirik|Ecole | does kinko's print pdfs? |
| 20:44.35 | Esine | mm |
| 20:44.47 | nevcairiel | oh hai cog|away, i found a Zootfizzle NPC today that was totally flaming his cogs |
| 20:44.54 | cog|away | nevcairiel: oldnews |
| 20:45.24 | Esine | cog|away, so why are your posts so thorough and such? you're doing really valuable work for blizzard, for free :/ |
| 20:45.24 | nevcairiel | I just found him today :( |
| 20:45.27 | cog|away | :P |
| 20:45.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias1 (n=Dave@c-69-245-192-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 20:46.05 | cladhaire | 4999g 59s 8c |
| 20:46.06 | cladhaire | SO CLOSE |
| 20:46.07 | cog|away | why does anyone contribute to any free source of info? look at wikipedia... |
| 20:46.27 | Esine | but but.. |
| 20:46.32 | Cide | cog|away is part of a blizzard conspiracy |
| 20:46.36 | Esine | you are too good to be true :x |
| 20:46.36 | Shadowed | He's got a robotic gun to his head |
| 20:46.39 | Shadowed | if he doesn't post 20 times a day |
| 20:46.40 | Shadowed | it shoots him |
| 20:47.21 | Cide | good, we dislike you anyway |
| 20:47.42 | cog|away | /kiss |
| 20:48.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (n=mattes@82.242.144.196) |
| 20:50.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Vicfred (n=vicfred@189.228.55.239) |
| 20:52.14 | Shirik|Ecole | this is pretty cool, you can upload documents to kinko's online and then have them print it |
| 20:52.16 | *** join/#wowuidev JoshBorke (n=Josh@r83h51.res.gatech.edu) |
| 20:52.49 | Shirik|Ecole | I can't take this whole searching through a 1000 page PDF anymore >< |
| 20:52.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik|Ecole: poke |
| 20:52.56 | Shirik|Ecole | hiya |
| 20:53.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Quick Java question |
| 20:53.16 | ScytheBlade1 | What would I use to read an entire binary file into memory and then parse it as I please? |
| 20:53.26 | Shirik|Ecole | there's a few |
| 20:53.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Say if the file(s) in question were... .dbc |
| 20:53.49 | Shirik|Ecole | how big is that? |
| 20:53.54 | Shirik|Ecole | not sure of that extension |
| 20:53.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Just the WoW DBCs |
| 20:53.58 | Esine | ScytheBlade1, generally in programming that's a bad idea.. it's not very efficient in any way to do that |
| 20:54.01 | Shirik|Ecole | oh |
| 20:54.05 | JoshBorke | ~failrik |
| 20:54.05 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 20:54.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Esine: 'meh' |
| 20:54.28 | Shirik|Ecole | You probably want a BufferedReader |
| 20:54.37 | Esine | then again you use Java already so that point is moot I guess :>> |
| 20:54.40 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm going to be playing around with the raw stuff a lot in RAM until I get it working how I want it to, so the read all to RAM and then parse is intentional |
| 20:54.50 | Shirik|Ecole | BufferedReader over a FileInputStream |
| 20:55.29 | Shirik|Ecole | For sure, FileInputStream |
| 20:55.37 | ScytheBlade1 | mmkay |
| 20:55.41 | ScytheBlade1 | To the java api page! |
| 20:55.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Thanks |
| 20:56.08 | Shirik|Ecole | :) |
| 20:56.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I just read the first 8 chapters of my java "book" |
| 20:56.31 | ScytheBlade1 | I haven't learned anything so far |
| 20:56.49 | ScytheBlade1 | So I figured I'd go poking around with the language as I wanted, and this has been something I've wanted to do |
| 20:56.52 | ScytheBlade1 | ... but not in PHP |
| 20:56.52 | Thunder_Child | you fail at reading? |
| 20:57.02 | Shirik|Ecole | I have a 4000 page document (that would be something around 2000 pages double-sided) |
| 20:57.17 | Shirik|Ecole | think a coil binder can handle that? |
| 20:57.20 | Cide | you divided by 2. good job. |
| 20:57.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Thunder_Child: chapter 8 is on simple one-dimensional arrays. You can well imagine what was before that |
| 20:57.42 | Shirik|Ecole | actually.... it won't even let me pick any of the bindings |
| 20:57.43 | Shirik|Ecole | wtf |
| 20:57.44 | Thunder_Child | no no Cide, it's the fact that he could even count that high thats good |
| 20:57.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik|Ecole: probably better to go with two binders |
| 20:57.49 | Cide | Thunder_Child: ah |
| 20:58.11 | Thunder_Child | ScytheBlade1, yes, yes i could |
| 20:58.54 | ScytheBlade1 | I likely won't learn anything actually new to me until at least chapter 14, which is labeled "advanced data structures" |
| 20:59.01 | ScytheBlade1 | And there are a whopping 15 chapters in this book |
| 21:00.54 | *** join/#wowuidev cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 21:00.54 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 21:01.03 | cbreak | the fastest method might be mmap. probably not available in java. |
| 21:01.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Syzgyn (n=no@24-240-17-145.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 21:01.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Speed isn't really something I'm concerned about atm |
| 21:02.34 | ScytheBlade1 | And it looks like java does indeed support mmap() though not by name, but in practice |
| 21:02.38 | ScytheBlade1 | http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/nio/channels/FileChannel.html |
| 21:07.55 | ScytheBlade1 | k, Shirik|Ecole, despite the API docs being relatively clear, it's throwing FileNotFoundException =[ |
| 21:08.04 | Shirik|Ecole | heh |
| 21:08.07 | Shirik|Ecole | what's your constructor |
| 21:08.50 | Thunder_Child | legos |
| 21:09.08 | ScytheBlade1 | I've imported io.BufferedReader and io.FileReader |
| 21:09.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Single line in main() |
| 21:09.13 | ScytheBlade1 | BufferedReader in = new BufferedReader(new FileReader("~/test.dbc")); |
| 21:09.47 | ScytheBlade1 | http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/BufferedReader.html |
| 21:10.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Just about a literal copy and paste |
| 21:10.31 | cbreak | is the file there? |
| 21:10.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes :) |
| 21:10.36 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 21:10.46 | ScytheBlade1 | That's one thing I made sure of checking before asking |
| 21:10.55 | ScytheBlade1 | And then I also tested by absolute path |
| 21:10.56 | ScytheBlade1 | No go |
| 21:11.33 | Shirik|Ecole | ok, firstly |
| 21:11.36 | Shirik|Ecole | you can't use a FileReader |
| 21:11.47 | Shirik|Ecole | you need to use a FileInputStream |
| 21:11.47 | ScytheBlade1 | mmkay |
| 21:11.51 | Thunder_Child | Fisker- fails |
| 21:11.52 | ScytheBlade1 | I tried that too |
| 21:12.14 | Shirik|Ecole | I agree that won't be the problem :) |
| 21:12.18 | Shirik|Ecole | but it will be a problem in the near future |
| 21:12.21 | ScytheBlade1 | heh, 'k |
| 21:12.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Then it whines stating that the constructor is undefined |
| 21:12.42 | Shirik|Ecole | you have read permissions on that file? |
| 21:12.48 | Shirik|Ecole | yes you have to use, I think BufferedInputStream |
| 21:12.52 | Shirik|Ecole | instead of BufferedReader |
| 21:13.24 | ScytheBlade1 | All right |
| 21:13.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Fstill whining about file not found |
| 21:13.33 | ScytheBlade1 | *Still |
| 21:13.37 | ScytheBlade1 | And yeah, read permissions are good |
| 21:13.50 | Shirik|Ecole | ok, I'd create a File object |
| 21:14.00 | Shirik|Ecole | File foo = new File("~/test.dbc") |
| 21:14.03 | Shirik|Ecole | then run some checks on it |
| 21:14.08 | Shirik|Ecole | assert foo.exists(); |
| 21:14.58 | Shirik|Ecole | assert foo.canRead(); |
| 21:15.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Runs fine |
| 21:15.10 | Shirik|Ecole | assert foo.isFile(); |
| 21:15.19 | Shirik|Ecole | if it all runs fine, do |
| 21:15.47 | Shirik|Ecole | BufferedInputStream in = new BufferedInputStream(new FileInputStream(foo)) |
| 21:15.59 | zenzelezz | once again looking at my dad's PHP code makes me want to QQ... $newdirA and $newdirA2. No comments as to what the difference is or what they are used for |
| 21:16.14 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 21:16.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Jagannath (i=Jagannat@adsl-75-49-39-206.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:16.17 | ScytheBlade1 | File not found |
| 21:16.17 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 21:16.39 | Syzgyn | zenzelezz: A2 is obviously 1 more than A :P |
| 21:16.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik|Ecole: http://wowi.pastey.net/95540 |
| 21:17.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Line 14 throws the same exception |
| 21:17.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Severity and DescriptionPathResourceLocationCreation TimeId |
| 21:17.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Unhandled exception type FileNotFoundExceptionRandom/stuffRandom.javaline 14122082216906568 |
| 21:17.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Argh |
| 21:17.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Sorry |
| 21:18.06 | Shirik|Ecole | that's awesome |
| 21:18.13 | ScytheBlade1 | I know |
| 21:18.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Awesome frustrating |
| 21:18.26 | Esine | -ly |
| 21:18.48 | cbreak | hmm... do you have to tell java if you open a file RO, RW or WO? |
| 21:19.12 | Shirik|Ecole | not for this case |
| 21:19.48 | ScytheBlade1 | That's my complete code |
| 21:19.59 | Shirik|Ecole | are assertions on? |
| 21:20.06 | ScytheBlade1 | How would I check? :) |
| 21:20.08 | Shirik|Ecole | do a quick "assert false" just to ensure |
| 21:20.28 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@c-68-35-67-18.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 21:20.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm, looks like no as it didn't break |
| 21:21.32 | Shirik|Ecole | run it with -ea |
| 21:21.36 | Shirik|Ecole | java -ea MyClass |
| 21:22.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay that worked, assertion failed at 11 |
| 21:22.25 | kd3 | whee |
| 21:22.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Which... how do I find the line numbers in eclipse? |
| 21:22.35 | kd3 | ike's 5-ish days away from slamming into the gulf coast again |
| 21:22.40 | kd3 | wonder where it's gonna hit this time? |
| 21:22.41 | Shirik|Ecole | I don't use eclipse |
| 21:22.42 | Shirik|Ecole | have fun |
| 21:22.46 | kd3 | sbo; status bar? |
| 21:22.48 | Shirik|Ecole | I hate eclipse |
| 21:22.52 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: not logged in |
| 21:23.00 | JoshBorke | ScytheBlade1: it's in the window preferences |
| 21:23.12 | ScytheBlade1 | JoshBorke: right along with *everything* haha |
| 21:23.24 | JoshBorke | erm, actually |
| 21:23.27 | JoshBorke | it's in the editor section |
| 21:23.37 | ScytheBlade1 | JoshBorke: that's what the search filter is for :) |
| 21:23.39 | ScytheBlade1 | But thank |
| 21:23.40 | ScytheBlade1 | *thanks |
| 21:23.51 | JoshBorke | meh, i tried! |
| 21:24.04 | ScytheBlade1 | hehe |
| 21:24.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Thanks :) |
| 21:24.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik|Ecole: yup, assert failed on my "assert false;" |
| 21:24.29 | ScytheBlade1 | But none of the three above that, checking exists/read/isFile |
| 21:24.45 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* i need more HD space |
| 21:25.57 | Shirik|Ecole | Are you running this in eclipse? |
| 21:26.23 | ScytheBlade1 | And via CLI as per your suggestion |
| 21:26.39 | Shirik|Ecole | you should get an error output, right? |
| 21:26.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Exception in thread "main" java.lang.Error: Unresolved compilation problem: Unhandled exception type FileNotFoundException |
| 21:26.47 | Shirik|Ecole | a dump of the uncaught exception? |
| 21:26.55 | Shirik|Ecole | er.... |
| 21:27.11 | Shirik|Ecole | that's..... not a FileNotFoundException |
| 21:27.14 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 21:27.16 | ScytheBlade1 | so it isn't |
| 21:27.44 | Shirik|Ecole | however, that does appear to be a compiler bug (try clean and rebuild) |
| 21:28.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Clean = remove the .class? |
| 21:28.26 | Shirik|Ecole | 1FedEx KinkoÂ’s does not notarize wills or conduct marriages. |
| 21:28.29 | Shirik|Ecole | wtf |
| 21:28.36 | kd3 | o_O; |
| 21:28.41 | ScytheBlade1 | irl rofl |
| 21:28.48 | ScytheBlade1 | That's only there because someone tried, and you know it |
| 21:28.57 | End | dammit, where am I gonna get my will notarized now? |
| 21:29.00 | Shirik|Ecole | anyway, eclipse should have some kind of "rebuild all" option |
| 21:29.09 | Shirik|Ecole | I don't use eclipse so I'm not sure |
| 21:29.16 | Shirik|Ecole | removing the .class file could be enough |
| 21:29.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay cleaned |
| 21:29.40 | ScytheBlade1 | (Run --> Clean) |
| 21:29.50 | ScytheBlade1 | s/Run/Project/ |
| 21:31.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 21:31.30 | ScytheBlade1 | That's mildly retarded that I have to catch exceptions that I _know_ will never happen |
| 21:31.37 | ScytheBlade1 | But something tells me that I'll be saying that a lot in the future |
| 21:31.40 | Shirik|Ecole | yes you do :) |
| 21:31.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 21:31.58 | Shirik|Ecole | alternatively you can have your main function throw Exception |
| 21:32.02 | Shirik|Ecole | but that's generally accepted as bad |
| 21:32.17 | ScytheBlade1 | That's kinda dirty |
| 21:32.23 | *** join/#wowuidev hardw1re (n=r3t39@wrightfamilee.plus.com) |
| 21:42.19 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@c-67-160-186-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:45.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Anywho, thanks, Shirik|Ecole |
| 21:45.18 | Shirik|Ecole | np ) |
| 21:45.19 | Shirik|Ecole | :) |
| 21:45.21 | ScytheBlade1 | I shall l2readerrormessages better next time :P |
| 21:45.28 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@cpc3-oxfd7-0-0-cust275.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:45.29 | Shirik|Ecole | :D |
| 21:45.46 | ScytheBlade1 | And maybe jump ahead to the exception handling chapter.. |
| 21:45.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Atriace (n=omnizeta@188.118.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 21:46.08 | Shirik|Ecole | :) |
| 21:46.16 | Atriace | ~seen antiarc |
| 21:46.19 | purl | antiarc is currently on #wowuidev (23h 52m 4s) #wowace (23h 52m 4s) #curseforge (23h 52m 4s). Has said a total of 33 messages. Is idling for 21h 35m 38s, last said: 'New poison ranks!'. |
| 21:46.37 | Atriace | Hey, Antiarc. You're not going to believe this... |
| 21:46.48 | Atriace | Do you know a guy called Yenom? |
| 21:46.59 | Shirik|Ecole | So, random question: Would anyone here drive a car whose intelligence is programmed in Lua |
| 21:47.00 | Shirik|Ecole | ? |
| 21:47.16 | kd3 | huh. I need to find something to put in my old water conjure/use keybinds |
| 21:47.29 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: yeah, I know the feeling |
| 21:47.30 | cbreak | I do not have the license to drive cars |
| 21:47.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik|Ecole: ....... maybe |
| 21:48.08 | cbreak | a bicycle maybe :) |
| 21:48.09 | Shirik|Ecole | I think it would be interesting to even expose that so drivers can improve the car |
| 21:48.17 | alestane | Shirik|Ecole: I feel like the VM is pretty solid, but I've gone through a lot of work trying to sandbox and we eventually had to extend Lua to do it. |
| 21:48.27 | cbreak | can most drivers read? :) |
| 21:48.31 | Shirik|Ecole | huh? |
| 21:48.51 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: mana/wizard oil? buff food? |
| 21:48.51 | alestane | kd3: what happened to conjured food? |
| 21:49.04 | Shirik|Ecole | alestane What was that referring to >.> |
| 21:49.07 | kd3 | we can self-conjure manna biscuits now |
| 21:49.08 | ScytheBlade1 | alestane: merged into one |
| 21:50.03 | alestane | Shirik|Ecole: My main concern about a car programmed in Lua would be tamper resistance. |
| 21:50.21 | Shirik|Ecole | Rofl: 300 pages of documentation for functions starting with "I". 4 pages for "J" |
| 21:51.12 | cbreak | ~seen cbreak |
| 21:51.14 | purl | cbreak is currently on #wowuidev (1d 11h 30m 2s). Has said a total of 255 messages. Is idling for 2s, last said: '~seen cbreak'. |
| 21:51.20 | smcn | lol |
| 21:51.21 | Shirik|Ecole | alestane: Admittedly, as of right now we have no intention of exposing it (you would have to break into the controller), however I might follow the policy of "you break it, you keep both pieces" |
| 21:51.27 | Shirik|Ecole | The real question would come into the legality of that |
| 21:52.02 | alestane | Well, my concern about it has less to do with warranty coverage than potential loss of life. |
| 21:52.10 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah I agree |
| 21:52.40 | alestane | What about tampering by those not the owner? |
| 21:52.41 | Shirik|Ecole | the only portion of the code that is actually in Lua right now (granted, we're in planning stages) is the hybrid controller though |
| 21:52.45 | Shirik|Ecole | Not the entire system |
| 21:53.02 | Shirik|Ecole | so if you break a component, it should simply be that analyzer that breaks |
| 21:53.11 | Shirik|Ecole | Obviously these problems would go into our dFMEA |
| 21:53.56 | cbreak | och... no automated driving system? :/ |
| 21:54.16 | Shirik|Ecole | heh, sorry |
| 21:54.19 | Shirik|Ecole | That's a little bit much :) |
| 21:54.29 | cbreak | maybe a wow bot author could use his talent in a more... destructive fashion |
| 21:54.30 | Shirik|Ecole | Our only goal is to make a ZEV with extremely high efficiency |
| 21:54.51 | Shirik|Ecole | http://www.ecocarchallenge.org/ |
| 21:56.17 | cbreak | I wonder if a termo isotope generator classifies as zero emission. |
| 21:56.25 | Shirik|Ecole | a what? |
| 21:56.36 | Shirik|Ecole | Anyway, "The only fuels approved for use in EcoCAR are E10 ethanol, E85 ethanol, B20 biodiesel, compressed gaseous hydrogen, and the energy carrier electricity." |
| 21:56.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-242-183-63.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:56.48 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 21:57.04 | cbreak | too bad. no radioactive substances :( |
| 21:57.20 | cbreak | how can something that burns carbon based fuel be zero emission? |
| 21:57.55 | Shirik|Ecole | Good question |
| 21:57.58 | Shirik|Ecole | I leave that to the mechanical team |
| 21:58.20 | Shirik|Ecole | supposedly they already have that worked out |
| 21:58.23 | cbreak | maybe a big baloon :) ah well. *goes reading* |
| 21:58.37 | Shirik|Ecole | We're using a B20 Diesel Hybrid engine |
| 21:58.54 | Shirik|Ecole | 4 mode hybrid, to be specific |
| 21:59.01 | alestane | Burning Hydrocarbons can produce other substances than CO2, I think, depending what you burn it together with....but not a chemical engineer. |
| 21:59.43 | cbreak | isn't burning oxidation? |
| 21:59.58 | Shirik|Ecole | I mean, in all honesty, it doesn't have to be "zero" |
| 22:00.04 | Shirik|Ecole | It's like fat free milk, it's not actually fat free |
| 22:00.12 | Shirik|Ecole | it's just so minimal that it meets some requirement to be called "zero" |
| 22:00.55 | cbreak | terribly unscientific :/ ah well, better than current cars anyway :) |
| 22:01.11 | Shirik|Ecole | It's for all intents and purposes zero :) |
| 22:01.31 | Shirik|Ecole | oh wow |
| 22:01.38 | Shirik|Ecole | according to wikipedia, it really is zero >.> |
| 22:01.51 | Shirik|Ecole | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-emissions_vehicle#Zero-emissions_Vehicle_.28ZEV.29 |
| 22:02.38 | Shirik|Ecole | However, '"Zero emissions" does not mean that the complete power cycle is non-polluting, except in special cases, since in most cases the energy is provided, at least partially, from fossil fuel plants. This may still be an advantage for urban areas when compared to conventional vehicles (see NIMBY).' |
| 22:04.38 | *** join/#wowuidev rufus_ (n=rufus@c-98-226-41-174.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:06.02 | Syzgyn | Cairenn fell over and crashed northrend D: |
| 22:06.05 | Seerah | let her get the sleep out of her eyes first, shirik :P |
| 22:06.25 | smcn | so i was about to say "servers seem more stable today" and then world server down... i guess just thinking it will crash them |
| 22:06.42 | Syzgyn | I'd been getting some bad combat lag for the past 10 min or so |
| 22:07.24 | smcn | oh all i did was turn in a couple quests and start flying from HF to BT.. about halfway there, i suppose when i log back on i'll be back in HF |
| 22:08.02 | Syzgyn | So does the new Naxx not let you out either? |
| 22:08.27 | kd3 | I think it should considering there's instance portals instead of the teleport this time |
| 22:08.43 | Syzgyn | I'd hope so |
| 22:10.28 | *** join/#wowuidev squidbear (n=squidbea@cpe-66-67-132-12.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 22:10.31 | squidbear | hey |
| 22:10.50 | Cairenn | hi |
| 22:11.25 | squidbear | I'm new to developing WoW addons, and am running into some difficulties. |
| 22:12.00 | Syzgyn | with what? |
| 22:12.02 | squidbear | I have an <OnClick>SMP_PlayMusic("Interface\\AddOns\\SimpleMusicPlayer\\Music\\song.mp3");</OnClick> in my xml file |
| 22:12.20 | Cairenn | or that, if it's really short ;) |
| 22:12.41 | squidbear | And in my LUA file I have... *hold on* |
| 22:12.44 | cbreak | inside a button? |
| 22:12.53 | krka | squidbear: Dude, it's not an acronym! |
| 22:13.01 | Shirik|Ecole | ~hug krka |
| 22:13.01 | purl | ACTION sneaks up on krka and suddenly hugs krka tightly |
| 22:13.10 | squidbear | krka, ? |
| 22:13.19 | Cide | it's "Lua" |
| 22:13.26 | cbreak | he wants you to spell it lua or Lua and not LUA :) |
| 22:13.28 | Esine | squidbear, krka has a script that does that every time someone says LUA |
| 22:13.29 | Cairenn | auto response every time someone capitalizes lua |
| 22:13.36 | Cairenn | lol |
| 22:13.36 | Esine | like now, probably.. |
| 22:13.37 | Esine | wait for it.. |
| 22:13.39 | squidbear | oh lol |
| 22:13.40 | ScytheBlade1 | squidbear: I'd like to echo what Cairenn said, if you visit the pastey site in the channel topic you can paste your code there and link us, so that we can read it easily |
| 22:13.52 | Esine | :( |
| 22:13.56 | squidbear | Yeah that's what I'm doing :) |
| 22:13.59 | ScytheBlade1 | kk, good :) |
| 22:14.02 | Cairenn | ~fail Esine |
| 22:14.02 | purl | Esine: FAIL! |
| 22:14.07 | Cairenn | ;-) |
| 22:14.10 | Esine | no u ;[ |
| 22:14.16 | Cairenn | :-( |
| 22:14.25 | Esine | just kidding :-) /love |
| 22:14.27 | cbreak | ~fail purl |
| 22:14.28 | purl | purl: FAIL! |
| 22:14.33 | squidbear | LUA file: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/95544 |
| 22:14.52 | squidbear | Then my OnClick is in a <Button> |
| 22:14.53 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 22:14.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Line 7 |
| 22:15.02 | ScytheBlade1 | And 12 |
| 22:15.10 | ScytheBlade1 | You want if (flag == 1) |
| 22:15.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Not if (flag = 1) |
| 22:15.19 | squidbear | oh gawd... |
| 22:15.23 | squidbear | >_< |
| 22:15.30 | cbreak | do you want to set the flag back when you stop? |
| 22:15.34 | Syzgyn | It could be a boolean for what you use it for |
| 22:15.54 | cbreak | also, you can use elseif if you want |
| 22:15.56 | Syzgyn | and the if(flag == 0) could just be else |
| 22:16.04 | cbreak | as it is now |
| 22:16.08 | cbreak | it will execute both ifs |
| 22:16.21 | cbreak | and stop right after starting |
| 22:16.25 | cbreak | (if you would use == :) |
| 22:17.06 | squidbear | so like this? http://wowuidev.pastey.net/95545 |
| 22:17.10 | cbreak | oh, also, globals in wow addons are global, so a name like "flag" might not be a good idea |
| 22:17.17 | ScytheBlade1 | cbreak: it was declared local |
| 22:17.18 | cbreak | you should prefix everything you do, or put it into a table |
| 22:17.27 | cbreak | hmm... ok :) |
| 22:17.47 | ScytheBlade1 | squidbear: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/95546 |
| 22:18.01 | wereHamster | squidbear: lua throws errors at you when you do 'if (flag = 1)' |
| 22:18.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Err |
| 22:18.16 | ScytheBlade1 | make that http://wowuidev.pastey.net/95547 |
| 22:18.39 | squidbear | oh I see. that makes more sense xD |
| 22:18.49 | cbreak | I propose http://wowuidev.pastey.net/95548 |
| 22:19.06 | cbreak | och, ScytheBlade1 was faster... |
| 22:19.10 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 22:19.12 | squidbear | lol |
| 22:19.21 | squidbear | you're both winners ;D |
| 22:19.29 | squidbear | now testing... |
| 22:20.04 | squidbear | :D |
| 22:20.06 | squidbear | works! |
| 22:20.51 | squidbear | now for my big question: is it possible to scan through a directory and get a list of all the files with LUA? |
| 22:20.58 | cbreak | no |
| 22:21.00 | cbreak | not in wow lua |
| 22:21.03 | foxlit | There is no LUA |
| 22:21.05 | cbreak | I think :) |
| 22:21.05 | foxlit | The LUA is a lie |
| 22:21.14 | squidbear | so is the cake :( |
| 22:21.18 | cbreak | the LUA is YELLING |
| 22:21.34 | nevcairiel | Even vanilla Lua doesnt have a way to list directory contents |
| 22:21.35 | cbreak | praise the name of the lord, LUA! |
| 22:21.38 | nevcairiel | wihout additional libs |
| 22:21.42 | foxlit | weeeeell |
| 22:21.54 | nevcairiel | or using some hackish way |
| 22:22.00 | squidbear | so I would have to use some kind of external script to print out a list of all the files in my Music dir? |
| 22:22.16 | foxlit | io.popen isn't a hack :) |
| 22:22.23 | Shirik|Ecole | in WoW? or otherwise? |
| 22:22.23 | Syzgyn | You'll only be able to use files within the wow folder |
| 22:22.28 | squidbear | In WoW |
| 22:22.35 | Shirik|Ecole | you can't use any external script in WoW |
| 22:22.39 | Shirik|Ecole | you are limited to what you have |
| 22:22.52 | nevcairiel | i consider io.popen("ls") a hack :P |
| 22:23.02 | squidbear | I know that, I meant have the user run it before they play WoW to generate a playlist |
| 22:23.15 | Shirik|Ecole | why nevcairiel? |
| 22:23.16 | squidbear | And the Music dir is within the addon dir |
| 22:23.19 | Shirik|Ecole | All OSes support it :D |
| 22:23.23 | Syzgyn | squidbear: you're better off having a list of all the files as part of your addon |
| 22:23.40 | nevcairiel | Shirik|Ecole: since when does Windows support "ls" ? |
| 22:23.45 | cbreak | windows have an ls program? |
| 22:23.55 | foxlit | xp does |
| 22:23.57 | squidbear | putty can do it :P |
| 22:24.01 | nevcairiel | vista doesnt =P |
| 22:24.03 | Shirik|Ecole | screenshot inc :D |
| 22:24.06 | ccox | cygwin |
| 22:24.10 | foxlit | in fact, that's odd |
| 22:24.18 | foxlit | I don't think I have anything linux-like installed |
| 22:24.29 | nevcairiel | I bet that you run some alias or anything to add it |
| 22:24.34 | nevcairiel | doubt ls is in vanilla xp |
| 22:24.56 | Shirik|Ecole | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/c4483e6d71300ed17ee2753a945671a3.jpg |
| 22:25.00 | p3lim | whats new in 8905? |
| 22:25.19 | foxlit | Ah, yes, I did do something |
| 22:25.24 | nevcairiel | Shirik: cygwin is cheating |
| 22:25.26 | p3lim | and ScytheBlade1, whats the url for your beta pic place? |
| 22:25.28 | Shirik|Ecole | not cygwin! |
| 22:25.36 | nevcairiel | gnu-win-tools |
| 22:25.36 | foxlit | GNU fileutils -- I needed wget |
| 22:25.37 | nevcairiel | whatever |
| 22:25.39 | Shirik|Ecole | QNX's tools do that *grin* |
| 22:26.18 | foxlit | MS has its own unix-compat layer |
| 22:26.26 | foxlit | well, posix |
| 22:27.07 | Shirik|Ecole | appendicies <-- spelled correctly? |
| 22:27.21 | Tem | So, I just watched Butterfly effect |
| 22:27.34 | ccox | cygwin isn't cheating - just completing the (incomplete) OS |
| 22:27.52 | Tem | I think I've hated the ending to everything I've seen in a long while |
| 22:28.48 | squidbear | Is there any way to tell when a PlaySong(song) finishes? (It just keeps looping right now) |
| 22:29.12 | cbreak | you could store the duration of your audio file in the same place you store it's path |
| 22:29.23 | cbreak | and then do some timer magic with OnUpdate or so |
| 22:30.00 | squidbear | just run a StopMusic() ? |
| 22:30.30 | cbreak | well, then you know when it stoped... |
| 22:30.36 | cbreak | but not if the music actually ended before :) |
| 22:30.37 | squidbear | right. |
| 22:30.41 | squidbear | lol |
| 22:30.58 | squidbear | I was hoping there was a builtin func :P |
| 22:31.09 | cbreak | I think there's PlaySound that does not loop |
| 22:31.32 | cbreak | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_PlaySoundFile |
| 22:32.02 | *** join/#wowuidev kaiden (n=kaiden@c-71-231-115-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 22:32.29 | squidbear | There's unfortunately no StopSoundFile |
| 22:37.04 | cbreak | yes, but it will play until it finishes I think |
| 22:37.16 | cbreak | hmm... unless there's a limit to number of concurrent sound files |
| 22:37.18 | cbreak | there probably is one |
| 22:37.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (n=Dark_Elf@206.169.253.94) |
| 22:43.51 | Amarande | Hmm, here's a really big goof on the part of the Auctioneer dev: |
| 22:44.00 | Amarande | Linen Cloth is used for "Smithing, First Aid, and Engineering." |
| 22:44.09 | ScytheBlade1 | MentalPower: ^ |
| 22:44.16 | cbreak | that might be true, but incomplete |
| 22:44.18 | Anaral | Well it is... |
| 22:44.20 | Amarande | Not tailoring. Most -definitely- not tailoring. :) |
| 22:44.26 | Anaral | Blame WoWHead |
| 22:44.47 | ScytheBlade1 | oh |
| 22:44.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Something tells me that you don't have tailoring :P |
| 22:46.41 | Anaral | Who me? |
| 22:47.11 | *** join/#wowuidev ecs (n=ecs@unaffiliated/ecstasia) |
| 22:47.16 | ScytheBlade1 | No, Amarande |
| 22:47.19 | Anaral | Yeah I have tailoring, just saying that Informant now uses WoWHead dumps for our prof info. |
| 22:50.18 | Anaral | Amarande: That info is from our old database, the next build we bring out will have all the correct info. |
| 22:51.03 | Anaral | Amarande: For a bit, I forgot that most people aren't using dev builds. |
| 22:52.12 | Shirik|Ecole | damn |
| 22:52.18 | *** join/#wowuidev mattbnr (n=chatzill@12-218-83-63.client.mchsi.com) |
| 22:52.20 | Shirik|Ecole | Accidentally said "2040 Copies" instead of "Go to page 2040" |
| 22:52.27 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 22:52.33 | Shirik|Ecole | Kinko's is quoting me $958k |
| 22:52.46 | Shirik|Ecole | They gave me a $200k discount though |
| 22:52.49 | Shirik|Ecole | for "volume purchase" |
| 22:52.51 | Diao | ... |
| 22:53.23 | Shirik|Ecole | their page does something really strange, it reloads all three tabs whenever you say an action |
| 22:53.32 | Shirik|Ecole | and first tab it loads even if you're on tab 3 (where the "copies" is put) |
| 22:55.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@69.182.188.239) |
| 22:57.27 | Tenchworks | ~seen tekkub |
| 22:57.29 | purl | tekkub <n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 3h 58m 11s ago, saying: 'it was only used for release announcements, I gave up and went to weekend builds'. |
| 22:57.35 | squidbear | can you anchor FontStrings? |
| 22:57.42 | Syzgyn | Yes |
| 22:57.57 | Syzgyn | You need to if you want them to show up |
| 22:58.19 | squidbear | I'm not and it's showing up in the center of my frame. |
| 22:58.27 | squidbear | :? |
| 22:59.05 | Syzgyn | Maybe I'm wrong on that then, but yes you can anchor them |
| 22:59.43 | squidbear | alright thanks |
| 23:01.21 | squidbear | what do you use to figure out a default frame name? |
| 23:01.21 | Shirik|Ecole | oooh |
| 23:01.31 | Shirik|Ecole | I removed a bunch of my tabs and changed the paper |
| 23:01.35 | Shirik|Ecole | they gave me a much better price :D |
| 23:01.42 | squidbear | xD |
| 23:01.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Even for 2040 copies? ;) |
| 23:02.36 | Shirik|Ecole | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/560b123ab390397f77a708d862ac29ee.jpg |
| 23:02.59 | Shirik|Ecole | and it was 2470, not 2040 |
| 23:03.00 | Shirik|Ecole | whatever P |
| 23:03.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Much |
| 23:03.03 | Shirik|Ecole | It was a big number |
| 23:03.41 | sacarasc | $261k? :o |
| 23:03.42 | ScytheBlade1 | That's actually a pretty nice service |
| 23:04.07 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah it's really cool |
| 23:04.11 | Shirik|Ecole | you can do everything online |
| 23:04.20 | Shirik|Ecole | add tabs, request bindings, set the paper, etc. |
| 23:04.28 | Shirik|Ecole | Then you send it off to a kinkos and they tell you when it's done |
| 23:06.27 | Syzgyn | Whoever is chain crashing Northrend, stop it already D: |
| 23:08.23 | Anaral | Wait a tick, Shirik|Ecole is this a real purchase? Or you just having fun with your mistake? |
| 23:08.35 | Shirik|Ecole | Having fun :) |
| 23:08.38 | Shirik|Ecole | The 4000 pages is real though |
| 23:08.41 | Shirik|Ecole | only need 3 copies though |
| 23:08.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Why three? |
| 23:09.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I mean, couldn't you just share it as you need it? |
| 23:09.03 | Fisker- | u am the slapperer of n00bs |
| 23:09.09 | Shirik|Ecole | Probably, but we do most of our work at home |
| 23:09.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 23:09.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Eh that's what the .pdf is for |
| 23:09.28 | Shirik|Ecole | true |
| 23:09.30 | Anaral | So at 3 copies how much is it? |
| 23:09.37 | Shirik|Ecole | about $500 |
| 23:09.52 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd vote go for 1 copy |
| 23:09.59 | Shirik|Ecole | I might do that |
| 23:10.00 | ScytheBlade1 | And bounce that around as you need it |
| 23:10.18 | Shirik|Ecole | I'm just sick of looking through the damn PDF |
| 23:10.19 | Anaral | I'd vote for just read the pdf |
| 23:10.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Dead tree references are nice, but so is the ability to hit ctrl+F |
| 23:10.21 | Shirik|Ecole | it's so hard to find anything |
| 23:10.27 | Shirik|Ecole | Ctrl+F takes forever |
| 23:10.31 | ScytheBlade1 | ha |
| 23:10.37 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd believe it, actually |
| 23:10.38 | Shirik|Ecole | and why is 30% recycled cheaper than 100% recycled |
| 23:11.20 | Anaral | Because it's a myth that recycled paper is better for the environment. |
| 23:12.01 | Anaral | It's more expensive to process old paper into recycled paper, expense includes energy, tools, etc |
| 23:12.43 | Amarande | BTW, something I'd like to see added for WOTLK, if it's not already: |
| 23:12.50 | Amarande | Can we have the ability to link items in private chat channels? |
| 23:13.02 | Gnarfoz | who said having recycled paper is motivated by it being cheaper? :p |
| 23:13.07 | Shirik|Ecole | You have them :D |
| 23:13.16 | Shirik|Ecole | That is, if you have my mod |
| 23:13.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh ha, that mod |
| 23:13.31 | ScytheBlade1 | I remember you working on it |
| 23:13.40 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: that's not in so far, doubt they'll ever do it :\ |
| 23:14.54 | wereHamster | Anaral: maybe it's more expensive to process old paper, but it's more environmentally friendly |
| 23:15.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm, I can't decide if that's a good price for 3 or a bad price |
| 23:15.12 | Shirik|Ecole | screw the environment |
| 23:15.16 | Shirik|Ecole | I'm noy paying $50 more for that |
| 23:15.16 | ScytheBlade1 | How much would it cost for 1? |
| 23:15.27 | Shirik|Ecole | $200 or $250 to be "environmentally friendly" |
| 23:15.36 | Sixen | *sigh* |
| 23:15.52 | wereHamster | Shirik|Ecole: I wouldn't mind if the US had its own environment. But unfortunately the earth has only one atmosphere |
| 23:15.54 | Sixen | The PTR Forums are basically this: RickRoll, Trolling, & Beta Questions |
| 23:15.57 | ScytheBlade1 | That's pretty good now that I think about it |
| 23:16.06 | Cide | wereHamster: will you pay the $50, then? |
| 23:16.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Sixen: yeah, they should just close the PTR forum until it's up, and issue permabans for people who can't read the stickies. |
| 23:16.43 | Sixen | QFT. |
| 23:16.50 | wereHamster | I'll die in 50 years anyway, and the effects of the current screwups won't be visible until then. So no, I won't |
| 23:17.06 | Shirik|Ecole | :D |
| 23:17.15 | Cide | but unfortunately the earth has only one atmosphere. think of the children. |
| 23:17.55 | wereHamster | which children? |
| 23:18.09 | alestane | If they're not his children, he probably doesn't care. |
| 23:18.50 | wereHamster | I'm far too intelligent to have children (like in idiocracy) |
| 23:21.41 | Ackis | Fisker-: SPORE |
| 23:22.16 | Fisker- | Ackis |
| 23:22.17 | Fisker- | SPORE |
| 23:22.33 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: don't they just need to activate one simple flag in the code to allow that? |
| 23:22.36 | Ackis | I'm installing now! |
| 23:22.45 | Amarande | I'm assuming that in the code, channels are designated for linking as 'allowed' or 'not allowed' |
| 23:22.45 | Fisker- | why so old news? |
| 23:22.53 | Amarande | all it would seem to take would be changing private channels' flag to 'allowed' |
| 23:23.00 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: probably, which also probably means that it's not a technical decision but a policy one...? :) |
| 23:23.23 | kd3 | it's been a policy decision all along, hasn't it? |
| 23:23.44 | Ackis | Fisker-: I want to be your buddy in spore! |
| 23:24.00 | Fisker- | no |
| 23:24.14 | Ackis | :( |
| 23:24.15 | Gnarfoz | kd3: which is what I'm pointing out? ;) |
| 23:24.42 | Amarande | a policy decision without purpose, indeed |
| 23:26.57 | Amarande | then again, probably not everyone in Blizzard Corporate is a gamer :S |
| 23:27.55 | Amarande | I suppose it seems logical to me that gaming companies should hire only gamers, but then, maybe there's a flaw there |
| 23:28.31 | cbreak | I wonder if chocolate factories hire people who like to eat the chocolate they make... hmm ... :) |
| 23:28.32 | Amarande | not to mention, it might be illegal LOL |
| 23:28.48 | Amarande | given that there are a lot of religious fundamentalists who might be able to cry discrimination then :P |
| 23:29.15 | Amarande | you know, the type who think that D&D is the spawn of Satan. :S |
| 23:30.05 | alestane | Amarande: From what I here, the percentage of active gamers in Blizzard's structure is lots higher even than other game companies. |
| 23:30.52 | Sixen | Uhm. |
| 23:30.59 | Amarande | Actually, that's the sort of more complex business thing that is probably one of the reasons lawyers exist LOL |
| 23:31.00 | Sixen | Am I missing something? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9336872880&sid=1 |
| 23:31.24 | Amarande | If you do not discriminate directly against a religion, but require your employees to participate in activities that are anathema to a particular religion ... |
| 23:31.31 | Amarande | are you still guilty of discrimination? :) |
| 23:33.29 | ccox | Amarande - in most cases, yes |
| 23:33.54 | ccox | However, since work is against the local religion for some people.... |
| 23:34.31 | Amarande | In other words, if you require everyone to play RPGs, then you've just indeed committed discrimination against Christian employees and will be hit with a booterang. :S |
| 23:34.32 | Diao | i think that would only be if you did something specifically sacrilegious |
| 23:34.37 | Diao | no |
| 23:34.40 | Amarande | speaking of which |
| 23:34.40 | Diao | that's fundamentalist only |
| 23:34.45 | Neuro_Medivh | actually, as long as the required activities are germaine to the work, then it's not discrimination |
| 23:34.47 | Amarande | is it physically possible to build a booterang that works? :) |
| 23:34.47 | Diao | now if you required them to burn a bible or something |
| 23:35.03 | Diao | then that would be discrimination |
| 23:35.16 | Neuro_Medivh | Not if the employer was called "BibleBurners.com" |
| 23:35.21 | Diao | lol |
| 23:36.01 | Neuro_Medivh | but as long as the employer can show just reason for the activity, it's not discrimination. It's why places like Hooters can discriminate against ugly women |
| 23:37.10 | Amarande | of course, if I ran a gaming company, I might feel the need to go a step further and not sell public stock at all |
| 23:37.20 | Amarande | after all, that puts the company in the hands of non-gamers for certain :P |
| 23:37.46 | Amarande | but then, I tend to be of the mind to think of the product -in and of itself- rather than what the product brings in LOL |
| 23:37.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Slix (i=slix00@bnc2.shellium.org) |
| 23:37.59 | Diao | if you can be successful as a private company then there's no reason to go public |
| 23:38.54 | Neuro_Medivh | Well, at some point you have to do business with one of the big companies |
| 23:39.12 | Neuro_Medivh | as they control most of the distro channels |
| 23:39.20 | Amarande | from a more abstract standpoint ... are artists, as such, inherently fools? |
| 23:39.29 | Shirik|Ecole | Uhh |
| 23:39.35 | Shirik|Ecole | ok, so I just checked my credit score |
| 23:39.38 | Shirik|Ecole | it's 666.... |
| 23:39.47 | Neuro_Medivh | el Diablo! |
| 23:39.49 | Amarande | by an artist, of course, I mean the sort of person whose first and foremost focus when creating something is the something itself, rather than whether that something is profitable |
| 23:39.56 | Amarande | Shirik: well, they always say that money is evil |
| 23:40.24 | Neuro_Medivh | to quote Boiler Room: "Anyone who tells you money is the root of evil DOESN'T HAVE ANY!" |
| 23:41.06 | Amarande | I don't know ... how many rich famous people are truly happy? |
| 23:41.11 | Amarande | as opposed to putting on a happy face for PR |
| 23:41.36 | Neuro_Medivh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvICN8DNMpY (Ben Affleck's best scene ever) |
| 23:41.43 | Amarande | perhaps, then, it's not really money itself that's soul-sucking |
| 23:41.47 | Amarande | it's the things most people have to do to climb to the top |
| 23:42.20 | Diao | it depends on the person :p |
| 23:43.07 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin (n=quoin@219-90-179-142.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 23:47.11 | *** join/#wowuidev netcurse (n=hthieblo@adsl-99-173-10-198.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:47.21 | Amarande | Two concepts, however, we will probably never see in gaming |
| 23:47.24 | Amarande | I. The perfect game |
| 23:47.28 | Amarande | II. A such thing as enough inventory space. :) |
| 23:55.33 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin- (n=quoin@219-90-177-102.ip.adam.com.au) |
