IRC log for #wowuidev on 20080618

`00:09.36`	`*** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight)`
`00:09.36`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v ckknight] by ChanServ`
`00:12.48`	`kd3`	`ho-boy... time to install f9`
`00:13.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev Sixen (n=Sixen@12.206.135.48)`
`00:14.51`	`bleeter`	`heh, he'll be fine. only real drama I had was wireless, and only had to look at dmesg for where to locate the firmware needed`
`00:20.24`	`Legorol`	`Oh boy, i don't seem to be able to log into my character. The blue bar loads to full on the loading screen, then the game hangs.`
`00:20.32`	`Legorol`	`Is this a known issue with some addon perhaps?`
`00:20.50`	`Legorol`	`Only have the problem with one char.`
`00:23.09`	`bleeter`	`happens from time to time, lemme ask a couple of questions`
`00:23.20`	`bleeter`	`1) Was the toon last in an instance, or zonining/in-out`
`00:23.29`	`bleeter`	`2) Toon expecting mail`
`00:23.46`	`bleeter`	`um.. there is one other case, can't recall... is usually 1 tho`
`00:24.34`	`bleeter`	`in which case, there's a couple of things to keep in mind... transfer from instance to world (or to inst from world) can bug out and leave you in limbo. waiting for the instance soft reset usually fixes this, BUT`
`00:24.35`	`Thunder_Child`	`hmm..firefox passed 2.25 million downloads, i wonder what was downloaded for the previous record`
`00:24.48`	`MentalPower`	`there is no previous record`
`00:24.50`	`bleeter`	`sometimes yer stuffs get caught in limbo but yer toon's stuck`
`00:25.00`	`bleeter`	`*toon's NOT stuck`
`00:25.04`	`Thunder_Child`	`MentalPower, but it said something about beating`
`00:25.23`	`Thunder_Child`	`i thought`
`00:25.26`	`MentalPower`	`link?`
`00:25.31`	`Thunder_Child`	`checking`
`00:25.38`	`bleeter`	`my advice, Legorol, would be to not try to login to the toon for 30 mins (instance soft reset) assuming you'd been zoning. if after 30 mins it's not 'fixed', file a ticket on an alt. GM will move you to heart location`
`00:25.45`	`bleeter`	`or if yer real lucky somewhere fun`
`00:25.54`	`MentalPower`	`Guinness World Records does not have a "number of downloads in 24hrs" record`
`00:26.00`	`bleeter`	`like a capital of an opposite faction city if they don't look close enough`
`00:26.20`	`MentalPower`	`bleeter: or they want to have some fun at your expense :)`
`00:27.25`	`Thunder_Child`	`MentalPower, i guess i misread it`
`00:28.22`	`bleeter`	`heh... oh yeah, the other case this can happen in, Legorol, is a world server crash. if you'd DCd last on that toon, similar 'bad stuff' can happen, you may be set to rollback a lil and GM has to kick the rollback in the head`
`00:29.05`	`bleeter`	`Legorol: i've sorta gleaned this info from the US Customer Support Forum, nothing really hard to say any of this info is real useful for your situation though soz ... ymmv`
`00:30.10`	`Legorol`	`bleeter: thanks a lot for all the info`
`00:30.40`	`Legorol`	`It appears that I am getting stuck on all toons in fact`
`00:30.52`	`Legorol`	`next up, i will nuke Trinity`
`00:32.08`	`bleeter`	`oh, all the above applies really only after nuking all addons, wtf, cache, powercycling all your h/w and checking traceroutes to your server's IP (not battlegroup). some ISPs recently seem to have been mysteriously dropping WoW game specific traffic (website's stay accessible). g'luck to you :)`
`00:32.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`00:32.46`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v alestane] by ChanServ`
`00:32.50`	`Lopeppeppy`	`My mouseover macros stopped working last night, i'm going to have to go through nuking folders too.`
`00:33.56`	`zespri_work`	`I think, that if addon on the load stick into an infinite loop the blue bar will be filled up and the game will never progress further then this`
`00:34.23`	`Legorol`	`that'd be eliminated by a trinity nuke`
`00:35.06`	`zespri_work`	`oh you switched of all the addons and cleared up everything... sorry misread you then`
`00:35.12`	`Legorol`	`However, it seems that the problem was merely temporary on the server side. I am now successfully in-game, without having changed anything.`
`00:35.21`	`Legorol`	`no you read me right, i haven't done that yet`
`00:35.36`	`Legorol`	`it was sinful of me to ask for help with login issues without disabling addons first :)`
`00:35.58`	`Legorol`	`but as i said, all is fine now, so i was lucky`
`00:42.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net)`
`00:47.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ip68-111-86-113.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`00:47.50`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Guillotine] by ChanServ`
`00:48.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Godzmack (n=Godzmack@157-157-212-97.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is)`
`00:50.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev kaelten_ (n=kaelten@c-68-62-218-86.hsd1.al.comcast.net)`
`00:57.40`	`*** join/#wowuidev mattswell (n=matthew@cpe-076-182-122-075.nc.res.rr.com)`
`01:09.37`	`Zurik`	`Guillotine: are you playing hide n seek? lol where have you been?`
`01:09.52`	`Guillotine`	`busy :(`
`01:09.54`	`foxlit`	`http://spirit-dreams.net/or/mov`
`01:10.00`	`Zurik`	`must be..`
`01:10.17`	`foxlit`	`somewhat long, that`
`01:10.22`	`Zurik`	`thought you were going to help me with my project foolio.`
`01:10.43`	`Guillotine`	`I was going to, but have just been way too busy :'(`
`01:11.25`	`Zurik`	`It's cool.. did you download what I did and look at it? that was the last i heard from you.`
`01:12.03`	`*** join/#wowuidev JoshBorke (n=josh@WoWUIDev/WoWInterface/LegoBlock/joshborke)`
`01:12.03`	`Guillotine`	`no, haven't had a chance`
`01:12.17`	`Zurik`	`what's been keepin ya so busy?`
`01:12.22`	`Zurik`	`i thought you were done with school.`
`01:13.05`	`Guillotine`	`everything :P Mostly going back and forth getting ready to move this weekend`
`01:13.54`	`Thunder_Child`	`hey Guillotine, want to take some AA batteries with you when you go?`
`01:13.55`	`Zurik`	`oh dang.. didn't know you were moving too.`
`01:14.16`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Guillotine, I'm moving this weekend too!! hug`
`01:14.26`	`Zurik`	`i feel for both of you!`
`01:14.29`	`Zurik`	`i hate moving.`
`01:14.33`	`Guillotine`	`TC: what a coincidence! I was going to ask you the same thing!`
`01:14.45`	`Thunder_Child`	`but i'm not going anywhere`
`01:14.57`	`Guillotine`	`Zurik: Its really a temporary move, so luckly I don't have to take all my stuff, but have to take enough to live for 3 months`
`01:15.21`	`Zurik`	`oh snap.. so your just moving for the job?`
`01:15.28`	`Thunder_Child`	`well we were going to auction the rest on ebay`
`01:15.40`	`Zurik`	`since your closer.. we gunna have to party on the weekends! haha`
`01:15.40`	`Thunder_Child`	`but if you need it when you come back....`
`01:15.44`	`Guillotine`	`Zurik: Well, going to be staying with family`
`01:16.14`	`Guillotine`	`so don't need to bring refrigerator or anything (thank goodness)`
`01:18.27`	`Zurik`	`yeah, that would suckola`
`01:19.35`	`Lunessa`	`foxlit: that looks hawt.`
`01:24.39`	`*** join/#wowuidev Drundia (n=drewndia@92.113.78.246)`
`01:25.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev quoin (n=quoin@114-30-117-80.ip.adam.com.au)`
`01:33.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@user-1121qr2.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`01:33.42`	`kd3`	`wee f9. now to fix xorg`
`01:36.48`	`MentalPower`	`http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2008/06/17/the-cake-is-a-lie-ie-team-bakes-a-treat-for-mozilla`
`01:47.11`	`Gnarfoz`	`kd3: f9?`
`01:47.38`	`Thunder_Child`	`fedora i assume`
`01:48.00`	`kd3`	`ya`
`01:50.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tain (n=Shrubber@cpe-76-183-136-225.tx.res.rr.com)`
`01:51.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kyahx (n=Kyahx@74-47-88-208.dr01.cnfl.mn.frontiernet.net)`
`01:54.01`	`kd3`	`and huzzah. while I was installing f9 wine 1.0's been packaged.`
`02:01.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`02:01.00`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ`
`02:01.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (n=bla@pD957DD11.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:07.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk)`
`02:07.34`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ`
`02:13.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev ntbnnt (n=ntbnnt@dpc691938137.direcpc.com)`
`02:18.56`	`*** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-72-230-38-163.nycap.res.rr.com)`
`02:21.02`	`Sixen`	`Aren't you lucky? :P.`
`02:22.32`	`Thunder_Child`	`no, if he was he wouldnt have to be dealing with all this crap`
`02:22.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@S0106000476e7af4b.vc.shawcable.net)`
`02:22.42`	`Sixen`	`Truth.`
`02:23.54`	`Thunder_Child`	`http://gizmodo.com/5017416/microsoft-mistakes-browser-war-for-browser-party-sends-firefox-a-lovely-cake`
`02:24.24`	`Thunder_Child`	`THE CAKE IS A LIE!`
`02:26.27`	`Sixen`	`lol?`
`02:26.45`	`Thunder_Child`	`i dunno, that kinda up to you if it's funny or not`
`02:27.09`	`Sixen`	`Rofl, that's awesome.`
`02:37.55`	`Fisker-`	`nah`
`02:38.41`	`Fisker-`	`Mozilla mistakes DELICIOUS CAKE for RELIGIOUS WAR`
`02:38.54`	`*** join/#wowuidev Anaral (n=formyint@ip68-228-143-166.hr.hr.cox.net)`
`02:53.28`	`Lunessa`	`Right now I want delicious cake.`
`02:54.57`	`Lunessa`	`mm... delicious chocolate cake left over from today's birthday party...`
`03:00.17`	`*** part/#wowuidev mattswell (n=matthew@cpe-076-182-122-075.nc.res.rr.com)`
`03:01.35`	`\|Jelly\|`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:04.16`	`\|Jelly\|`	`~seen Rayne`
`03:04.26`	`purl`	`rayne <n=gcittboy@d66-222-203-177.abhsia.telus.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 82d 2h 18m 59s ago, saying: 'Cairenn: Thats really wierd, because I just opened the zipped file I have in my WoW Folder, and its not named...'.`
`03:04.36`	`\|Jelly\|`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:05.41`	`Lunessa`	`zomg... Cake was so good.`
`03:11.01`	`\|Jelly\|`	`You didn't share. I think we might have to break up.`
`03:11.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kody (n=kody@c-98-210-154-155.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:13.18`	`Lunessa`	`You don't put out anyway.`
`03:13.49`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Wait. What?`
`03:14.06`	`Lunessa`	`You always have the lame "I have a headache" excuse.`
`03:14.33`	`\|Jelly\|`	`I really had to wash my hair that one time, damnit!`
`03:14.53`	`Lunessa`	`Lies. Propaganda. You don't love me. There's someone else.`
`03:15.43`	`\|Jelly\|`	`There /is/ someone else but you don't know her therefore it doesn't count!`
`03:16.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys_ (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`03:18.04`	`\|Jelly\|`	`~hug Lunessa`
`03:18.06`	`purl`	`ACTION gets a running start and tackle-hugs Lunessa`
`03:18.14`	`Lunessa`	`~hug \|Jelly\|`
`03:18.15`	`purl`	`ACTION jumps into \|Jelly\|'s lap and huggles and hugs \|Jelly\|`
`03:18.18`	`digmouse`	`is there any tool that can automatically make ace2 locale file for me?`
`03:20.43`	`Fisker-`	`snap out of it Lunessa :`
`03:20.44`	`Fisker-`	`:o`
`03:21.05`	`Lunessa`	`What? You want I should be beating someone with a 9lb hammer?`
`03:21.39`	`Fisker-`	`wait, what?`
`03:26.07`	`kd3`	`gah... why, why does xorg have to mirror monitors instead of span them by default?`
`03:27.59`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I don't know, so I gave up and used TwinView`
`03:28.05`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Life is better here.`
`03:28.27`	`kd3`	`I'm waiting to install twinview... yum's at 294/457`
`03:28.43`	`ScytheBlade1`	`hehe, could be a bit.`
`03:29.16`	`Fisker-`	`o hai kd3 :(`
`03:29.21`	`kd3`	`'lo`
`03:29.29`	`Fisker-`	`ea is stupid`
`03:29.41`	`Lunessa`	`Ok, I'm out. See you all tomorrow.`
`03:29.44`	`kd3`	`still waiting on spore creature creator?`
`03:29.45`	`Thunder_Child`	`~smite Fisker-`
`03:29.45`	`purl`	`ACTION wields the mighty blade of Argothax and cleaves Fisker- from crown to sole.`
`03:29.48`	`Fisker-`	`nah kd3`
`03:30.09`	`Fisker-`	`for some reason they just thought it would be a grand idea to pay around $20 more than usual for spore`
`03:30.37`	`Fisker-`	`It appears they live in a world where the american economy haven't failed yet`
`03:31.55`	`Fisker-`	`and now: work tiems`
`03:34.56`	`Corrodias`	`i think`
`03:35.11`	`Corrodias`	`you pay $10 for the full edition creator, then get $5 off the game when it comes out.`
`03:35.18`	`Corrodias`	`i could be wrong, but that's what i heard`
`03:36.30`	`Thunder_Child`	`i saw $5 a package of the 2`
`03:36.42`	`Thunder_Child`	`s/a/off a/`
`03:36.45`	`Thunder_Child`	`...`
`03:37.08`	`MentalPower`	`~fail Thunder_Child`
`03:37.09`	`purl`	`Thunder_Child: FAIL!`
`03:37.18`	`Thunder_Child`	`indeed`
`03:37.24`	`alestane`	`I think you wanted s/ a / off a /`
`03:38.24`	`Thunder_Child`	`that would have worked as we`
`03:38.25`	`Thunder_Child`	`ll`
`03:38.49`	`Thunder_Child`	`s/5 a/off a/ is prolyl what i would have done if i was thinking`
`03:39.56`	`alestane`	`Which would have yielded "i saw $off a package of the 2"`
`03:42.31`	`Thunder_Child`	`just goes to show i'm still not thinking`
`03:46.32`	`Shirik`	`you know, I learned today how painful it is only to have a > and a == operator, and no <, <=, or >=`
`03:46.36`	`Shirik`	`that really sucks`
`03:46.52`	`Shirik`	`their justification being that you can make <, <=, and >= out of > and ==, but still it sucks`
`03:48.57`	`Arrowmaster`	`what language?`
`03:51.45`	`kd3`	`sigh... [Stupid] Speeders in Atlanta may have to pay an extra $15 to help offset rising fuel costs to operate city vehicles`
`03:52.15`	`ScytheBlade1`	`ha`
`03:52.18`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Funny how that works`
`03:52.44`	`kd3`	`it's funny... as gas prices keep rising, the number of speeders (incl. me) keep dropping`
`03:52.52`	`kd3`	`I'm shocked if I'm ever more than 5 over these days`
`03:53.38`	`ScytheBlade1`	`It's true`
`03:53.57`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I kinda hope that gas one day just jumps to well over $10/gallon`
`03:54.06`	`ScytheBlade1`	`That make a lot of change happen very quickly`
`03:54.25`	`kd3`	`it's already started... it took a month? maybe? to knock SUVs off the top of the leaderboard`
`03:54.49`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Yeah, but that'll change right quick if the prices goes down any`
`03:55.07`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Hybrids are not cheap`
`03:56.57`	`Corrodias`	`why is that under [Stupid], i wonder`
`03:57.18`	`Corrodias`	`what do you think the rest of the fine was going to, the "speeder's lottery" prize pool?`
`03:57.24`	`Corrodias`	`*what do they think`
`03:57.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-10-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)`
`03:58.32`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Yes`
`03:59.21`	`Corrodias`	`i won, once`
`04:03.15`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Hmm, first time that I've ever been meta-moderated in a way that I disagree with on slashdot`
`04:03.20`	`cogwheel`	`Gas prices piss me off... Not because of the prices themselves, but because of the hypocrisy it brings out in people... No one who considers themselves an environmentalist should be angry at high gas prices (esp considering it wasn't that long ago they were pushing for higher gas taxes)`
`04:03.27`	`cogwheel`	`(just one example)`
`04:03.52`	`Corrodias`	`well, that also depends on whether you consider the use of gas to be detrimental to the environment`
`04:03.59`	`cogwheel`	`aye`
`04:04.12`	`Corrodias`	`most of them do`
`04:04.13`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Though apparently, I've got a 92% fairness raiting, when the average us 75% or so, so whatever`
`04:04.38`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Whoo lag`
`04:05.50`	`cogwheel`	`My car is solar powered imo... Sun->plants->oil->gasoline`
`04:05.58`	`kd3`	`^^`
`04:06.28`	`ScytheBlade1`	`haha`
`04:06.51`	`cogwheel`	`Biodiesel just shortens the production process`
`04:06.57`	`cogwheel`	`time*`
`04:08.41`	`Corrodias`	`shit, gamefaqs has enough guides for this game`
`04:09.18`	`cogwheel`	`I wonder if we could ever build enough wind generators to change weather patterns by sucking too much energy out of the atmosphere...`
`04:10.15`	`Corrodias`	`my answer: i think so, but we would be taking more out by building big, square skyscrapers.`
`04:10.36`	`Corrodias`	`speaking of which, i wonder what effect, if any, wind drag - powered by solar heating/cooling cycles - has on the earth's rotational speed`
`04:11.13`	`cogwheel`	`wtf? why do my cell phone bills keep going down? doesn't that violate some law of thermodynamics?`
`04:11.14`	`kd3`	`probably about as much as launching satellites`
`04:16.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net)`
`04:17.43`	`*** join/#wowuidev ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@smtp.mail.averageurl.com)`
`04:17.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@user-1121qr2.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`04:18.55`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik\|Ghost (i=nospam@176.sub-75-199-83.myvzw.com)`
`04:24.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@user-1121qr2.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`04:24.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@12.179.203.116)`
`04:40.47`	`Thunder_Child`	`cogwheel, that reminds me of my "dumping data on HD and seeing avaliable space going up" if i could market it i would be qute rich`
`04:42.30`	`*** join/#wowuidev kyon (n=Administ@cpe-24-210-246-254.woh.res.rr.com)`
`04:44.00`	`sylvanaar`	`wierd`
`04:55.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@smtp.mail.averageurl.com)`
`04:59.16`	`Thunder_Child`	`sigh when are the blizzcon tickets going on sale`
`04:59.43`	`Sixen`	`Soon(TM)`
`05:01.11`	`Thunder_Child`	`well thats rather openended`
`05:04.27`	`MentalPower`	`you expected different?`
`05:05.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev isman (i=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net)`
`05:07.57`	`Drundia`	`when you dump data on HD you eventually buy new HD and then you surely see available space go above what it was at start`
`05:08.58`	`cogwheel`	`Sixen: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7116277130&postId=71157095607&sid=1#4`
`05:09.03`	`cogwheel`	`;)`
`05:09.27`	`Thunder_Child`	`MentalPower, no, but i was hoping`
`05:11.09`	`Thunder_Child`	`a man can dream...cant he?`
`05:11.10`	`MentalPower`	`Thunder_Child, Sixen: http://www.wowwiki.com/Soon`
`05:11.49`	`Thunder_Child`	`MentalPower, funny, but i still hate you`
`05:11.58`	`MentalPower`	`:P`
`05:12.07`	`MentalPower`	`y all the hate, gimmah some love!`
`05:12.17`	`Thunder_Child`	`ok, i love to hate you`
`05:13.50`	`Thunder_Child`	`i so dont get http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Lvl_60_IRC`
`05:14.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@smtp.mail.averageurl.com)`
`05:15.21`	`kd3`	`tc; the basis is "what if level 60 bosses all got on IRC after the BC hit?"`
`05:15.52`	`Thunder_Child`	`kd3, ah, ty`
`05:16.36`	`kd3`	`I've got more forum humor in my userspace at http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Kaydeethree/Night_elves_continued`
`05:18.38`	`Thunder_Child`	`kd3, i am sensing much hatred for the elves`
`05:18.57`	`kd3`	`meh I didn't write it, but yes, indeed`
`05:33.42`	`*** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-221-156-241.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`05:40.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev aestil (n=holycall@cpe-76-95-133-5.socal.res.rr.com)`
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`05:42.15`	`Thunder_Child`	`Excerpt from a game "Pick things up and move them around in a unique dynamic environment as you help your yard sale junkies find that perfect item!" Read: you move pixles around on a screen...and you will give us $20 for the privilge`
`05:43.18`	`Tekkub`	`wait... second life?`
`05:45.34`	`Thunder_Child`	`hmm...i suppose that would fit, but not quite`
`05:45.41`	`Thunder_Child`	`isnt 2nd life free though?`
`05:52.03`	`Tekkub`	`yea you just pay to get money to spend if I remember right`
`05:56.39`	`Sixen`	`hhai2u cog`
`05:57.05`	`Sixen`	`hahah`
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`06:08.35`	`MentalPower`	`~lart me`
`06:08.35`	`purl`	`does a little 'dpkg -P mentalpower' action`
`06:08.40`	`MentalPower`	`thanks purl`
`06:08.56`	`MentalPower`	`so... \|4 doesn't work over chat`
`06:09.37`	`Drundia`	`why would it?`
`06:10.06`	`MentalPower`	`well, I can't send it over chat`
`06:10.06`	`Tekkub`	`only`
`06:10.09`	`Tekkub`	`gah`
`06:10.14`	`Tekkub`	`only \|H works over chat`
`06:10.19`	`Tekkub`	`and only certain chats`
`06:10.53`	`MentalPower`	`well, \|4 could be processed locally before being sent out over chat`
`06:11.14`	`MentalPower`	`at any rate, I guess I'll have to process \|4 myself in this case`
`06:11.23`	`Tekkub`	`so bitch at ZootyZootZoot?`
`06:12.39`	`Drundia`	`\|4 is likely processed by fontstring rendering engine`
`06:12.49`	`MentalPower`	`like all the other escape chars`
`06:13.14`	`MentalPower`	`s/chars/sequences/`
`06:15.58`	`kd3`	`huzzah, 12 hours and an OS install later, fx 3.0 final's installed.`
`06:16.21`	`Tekkub`	`fux?`
`06:16.31`	`kd3`	`went from f8 to f9 today too`
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`06:19.27`	`kd3`	`random image link before I crash. old, but still good: http://dl.ziza.ru/other/052008/29/pics/057_pics.jpg`
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`06:21.48`	`Arrowmaster`	`bah wheres shirik he would love this`
`06:21.50`	`Arrowmaster`	`http://www.viksoe.dk/code/asmil.htm`
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`06:28.41`	`Sixen`	`kd3: Lmao, that's awesome.`
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`07:02.20`	`Zurik`	`Guillotine: you around?`
`07:03.28`	`Guillotine`	`kind of, about to go to bed, but I have time`
`07:03.40`	`Guillotine`	`getting my firefox 3.0 all set up and working`
`07:04.48`	`Zurik`	`oh nada.. i just wanted to show you the website when you have a chance.`
`07:04.50`	`Zurik`	`:)`
`07:05.09`	`Guillotine`	`linky :) here or in PM, either way`
`07:05.31`	`Zurik`	`yeah.. i think yahoo is buggin i have not seen you online in days`
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`07:14.12`	`Guillotine`	`well, both firefox 3 and Spore CC ended up being pretty damn cool`
`07:18.47`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`	`night`
`07:18.55`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`	`~seen MentalPower`
`07:19.14`	`purl`	`mentalpower <n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 1h 6m 25s ago, saying: 'like all the other escape chars'.`
`07:19.14`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`	`purl you suck`
`07:19.17`	`purl`	`and very well I might add`
`07:19.20`	`Thunder_Child`	`stop trying to look at yourself MentalPower\|ZZzz`
`07:19.31`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`	`:P`
`07:24.50`	`Guillotine`	`night all!`
`07:26.06`	`Thunder_Child`	`night Guillotine`
`07:26.34`	`*** part/#wowuidev Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ip68-111-86-113.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`07:32.22`	`Thunder_Child`	`not like doing this crap is really going to stop it anyways http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/17/1850222&`
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`08:15.13`	`Tekkub`	`Buck Fudder!`
`08:15.40`	`Thunder_Child`	`and what did budder ever do to you`
`08:15.41`	`Thunder_Child`	`?`
`08:16.19`	`Tekkub`	`I'm on to you TREBECK!`
`08:17.00`	`Thunder_Child`	`Tekkubs lost it again`
`08:17.57`	`Tekkub`	`AAAAAAASIA!`
`08:17.57`	`Thunder_Child`	`assuming he ever had it`
`08:21.24`	`nevcairiel`	`that assumption is dangerous`
`08:23.28`	`Thunder_Child`	`so i see`
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`09:00.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev zespri (i=andrews@unaffiliated/zespri)`
`09:02.57`	`zespri`	`what is the current mainstream mod that parses combat log and report on everyones dps, damage types, etc?`
`09:04.47`	`Lukian`	`recount, violation, swstats?`
`09:04.47`	`Lukian`	`damagemeters if you are that way inclinded`
`09:04.47`	`Lukian`	`-d`
`09:05.37`	`zespri`	`I used to use damgemeters back then`
`09:06.03`	`zespri`	`but it's not developed any longer I think...`
`09:06.23`	`Lukian`	`it's kinda scary yeah`
`09:08.33`	`zespri`	`thank you`
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`09:10.40`	`zespri`	`lol`
`09:10.52`	`zespri`	`none of the three that you've mentioned is on wowinterface`
`09:13.47`	`Lukian`	`really? interesting`
`09:13.52`	`Lukian`	`two are on wowace`
`09:15.59`	`Kalroth`	`wowi doesn't seem to have any combat loggers`
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`10:02.42`	`Hapnintwo`	`Hi`
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`10:09.20`	`zespri`	`ok from what I've seen now recount looks the best`
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`10:52.00`	`foxlit`	`I wonder if there's a way to get youtube not to reencode my source video :/`
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`11:53.38`	`cncfanatics`	`yo peeps`
`11:57.18`	`Drundia`	`yo from peeps`
`11:57.45`	`cncfanatics`	`hmmm, anyone, how do I calculate how many different results there are for x + y + z + u = 19`
`11:57.50`	`cncfanatics`	`(x, y, z, u are natural numbers)`
`11:57.51`	`cncfanatics`	`I can't find it :(`
`12:01.07`	`Drundia`	`it should part of combinatorics... or so i believe`
`12:01.24`	`cncfanatics`	`it should part of what ? :o`
`12:01.49`	`Drundia`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorics`
`12:02.38`	`Drundia`	`there should be "be" somewhere....`
`12:02.51`	`Drundia`	`i should stop eating words when typing....`
`12:03.06`	`cncfanatics`	`lol`
`12:03.11`	`foxlit`	`assuming x, y,z,u are non-distinct?`
`12:03.25`	`cncfanatics`	`~nod`
`12:03.25`	`purl`	`ACTION nods`
`12:03.47`	`foxlit`	`start with one solution, enumerate, find a pattern`
`12:04.15`	`cncfanatics`	`I tried`
`12:04.17`	`cncfanatics`	`quite hard on that one`
`12:04.20`	`cncfanatics`	`there's like tons :s`
`12:05.06`	`foxlit`	`x=16 y=1 z=1u=1`
`12:05.18`	`foxlit`	`15 more in the form of x=16-i y=1+i z=1 u=1`
`12:05.21`	`Drundia`	`do you consider 0 natural number?`
`12:05.27`	`cncfanatics`	`Drundia: yes`
`12:05.51`	`foxlit`	`I don't, odd.`
`12:05.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev Josh_Borke (n=jk275@WoWUIDev/WoWInterface/LegoBlock/joshborke)`
`12:05.55`	`cncfanatics`	`so, 19, 0, 0, 0; 18, 1, 0, 0; 17, 2; 0; 0; etc`
`12:06.21`	`foxlit`	`Hrm, that is interesting`
`12:06.49`	`foxlit`	`oh, actually`
`12:06.51`	`foxlit`	`i=0..19`
`12:07.01`	`Drundia`	`then we have upper bound of 20^4`
`12:07.19`	`Drundia`	`now let me think some more....`
`12:07.24`	`foxlit`	`then sum the number of different ways you can distribute i 1s into 3 slots`
`12:07.33`	`cncfanatics`	`hmmm`
`12:07.34`	`cncfanatics`	`I have an idea`
`12:07.41`	`cncfanatics`	`you're basicly distributing 19 1's in 4 slots`
`12:07.47`	`cncfanatics`	`calculate in how much ways you can distribute them ?`
`12:07.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev Elkano_ (i=Elkano@client00758.vpn.uni-saarland.de)`
`12:07.53`	`Drundia`	`yes!`
`12:07.58`	`*** join/#wowuidev Elkano (i=Elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano)`
`12:08.17`	`foxlit`	`4^19`
`12:08.19`	`Drundia`	`201918*17 should be it`
`12:08.26`	`Drundia`	`or...`
`12:08.29`	`cncfanatics`	`4^19 you mean ?`
`12:08.42`	`cncfanatics`	`the first one can be given to 4 different slots, so 4 solutions`
`12:08.49`	`cncfanatics`	`the second one can be given to 4 diff slots, so also 4`
`12:08.53`	`cncfanatics`	`4444...4`
`12:08.55`	`cncfanatics`	`19 times`
`12:08.58`	`Drundia`	`yes but`
`12:08.59`	`cncfanatics`	`is 4^19`
`12:09.08`	`Drundia`	`order doesn't matter`
`12:09.20`	`foxlit`	`who said anything about order not mattering?`
`12:09.26`	`foxlit`	`x=19 != y=19 :)`
`12:09.27`	`Drundia`	`first to x, second to y equals to first to y, second to x`
`12:09.51`	`cncfanatics`	`book says answer is 1540 btw`
`12:09.59`	`cncfanatics`	`so 4 ^19 is WAY too big`
`12:10.22`	`cncfanatics`	`the exact question is: how much different answers are there for x + y + z + u = 19 with x, y, z, y element of N`
`12:10.29`	`Drundia`	`that's 40*39`
`12:10.39`	`cncfanatics`	`why is it that ?`
`12:10.49`	`Drundia`	`or wait it's not`
`12:10.54`	`cncfanatics`	`40*39 is 1560 btw, not 1540`
`12:11.57`	`cncfanatics`	`bah, damn exercise`
`12:12.04`	`cncfanatics`	`its the hardest one though :p`
`12:12.07`	`cncfanatics`	`all others are quite easy`
`12:12.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`12:14.51`	`Drundia`	`x, y, z and u shouldn't equal any of each other?`
`12:15.07`	`Drundia`	`if they can and 0 isn't natural it should be 1820`
`12:15.17`	`Drundia`	`if 0 is natural it's way higher`
`12:15.22`	`cncfanatics`	`it doesn't say if they can`
`12:15.27`	`cncfanatics`	`I'm suposing they can as it doesn't say they can't :p`
`12:15.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36)`
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`12:17.02`	`cncfanatics`	`but I totaly can't figure how to get to 1540 as answer`
`12:17.07`	`cncfanatics`	`for me, 4^19 makes sense`
`12:17.17`	`Drundia`	`71120`
`12:17.25`	`Drundia`	`457*11`
`12:17.29`	`Drundia`	`how do they do that?`
`12:17.47`	`cncfanatics`	`dunno`
`12:17.58`	`cncfanatics`	`I just have the answer I need to find, not how to find it`
`12:20.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@conspiracy/developer/Shirik)`
`12:20.10`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ`
`12:20.27`	`cncfanatics`	`Shirik !`
`12:20.30`	`cncfanatics`	`you're going to be able to help me`
`12:20.36`	`cncfanatics`	`how much different answers are there for x + y + z + u = 19 with x, y, z, y element of N ?`
`12:21.04`	`cncfanatics`	`according to me & Drundia it should be 4^19 (giving 19 ones to 4 different slots) but my book says it should be 1540, which is right ?`
`12:21.39`	`Drundia`	`no, it's according to foxlit`
`12:21.59`	`Drundia`	`accordign to me it's either google for "15 choose 4" or "19 choose 4"`
`12:22.08`	`Drundia`	`googlecalc even`
`12:22.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk)`
`12:22.14`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ`
`12:22.44`	`Kalroth`	`Legorol knows!`
`12:23.09`	`Legorol`	`Yes I do! Know what?`
`12:23.12`	`Drundia`	`if they can't be equal number goes down.... but we need to somehow think how many possibilities there are.....`
`12:23.27`	`Kalroth`	`Legorol: <cncfanatics> how much different answers are there for x + y + z + u = 19 with x, y, z, y element of N ?`
`12:23.31`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> x=19!`
`12:23.32`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near '!'`
`12:23.40`	`Kalroth`	`~slap Josh_Borke`
`12:23.41`	`purl`	`ACTION slaps Josh_Borke, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!`
`12:23.59`	`Legorol`	`Kalroth: do you want to include 0 or not in N?`
`12:24.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev copystring (n=copystri@p548A137C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`12:24.05`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) return xfact(x-1) end; print(fact(19)/(fact(4)fact(15)))`
`12:24.05`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: stack overflow`
`12:24.21`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) return xfact(x-1) end; top = fact(19); bottom = (fact(4)fact(15)))`
`12:24.21`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near ')'`
`12:24.23`	`Kalroth`	`Legorol: swoooosh`
`12:24.26`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) return xfact(x-1) end; top = fact(19); bottom = fact(4)fact(15))`
`12:24.26`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near ')'`
`12:24.28`	`Kalroth`	`Legorol: I don't know :P`
`12:24.30`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) return xfact(x-1) end; top = fact(19); bottom = fact(4)fact(15)`
`12:24.31`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: stack overflow`
`12:24.32`	`Legorol`	`I'm serios, it's important`
`12:24.32`	`Kalroth`	`Legorol: isn't 0 always in N?`
`12:24.36`	`Drundia`	`i think i want`
`12:24.39`	`Drundia`	`or he wants`
`12:24.42`	`Legorol`	`nope, it varies`
`12:24.44`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) return x*fact(x-1) end; top = fact(19); bottom = fact(4); other=fact(15)`
`12:24.44`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: stack overflow`
`12:24.47`	`Kalroth`	`<cncfanatics> according to me & Drundia it should be 4^19 (giving 19 ones to 4 different slots) but my book says it should be 1540, which is right ?`
`12:24.47`	`Josh_Borke`	`blah`
`12:24.48`	`Drundia`	`we know even the answer`
`12:24.49`	`Kalroth`	`^`
`12:24.56`	`Legorol`	`there is a slight confusion sometimes, so it's best to clarify`
`12:25.10`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) return x*fact(x-1) end; print(fact(15))`
`12:25.10`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: stack overflow`
`12:25.12`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) return x*fact(x-1) end; print(fact(4))`
`12:25.13`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: stack overflow`
`12:25.15`	`Josh_Borke`	`pos`
`12:25.16`	`Kalroth`	`that's probably why their result varies from the actual result`
`12:25.24`	`Drundia`	`i assume that 0 is natural for that purpose, but numbers have to be all different`
`12:25.28`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) return fact(x-1)*x end; print(fact(4))`
`12:25.28`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: luabot:1: stack overflow`
`12:25.36`	`Josh_Borke`	`heh, woops`
`12:25.54`	`Legorol`	`Droolio: numbers have to be all different? do you mean thtat you can't have x=y?`
`12:25.56`	`Drundia`	`Josh_Borke, maybe you want to try to include there "if (x==0) then return 1; end;"`
`12:25.58`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) if x > 0 then return xfact(x-1) else return 1 end end; print(fact(19)/(fact(4)fact(15)))`
`12:25.58`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: 3876`
`12:26.06`	`batrick`	`!lua function fact(x, t) t = t or 1; if x == 1 then return t else return fact(x-1, t*x) end end return fact(15)`
`12:26.06`	`batbot`	`batrick: > 1307674368000`
`12:26.08`	`Legorol`	`s/Droolio/Drundia/`
`12:26.26`	`Drundia`	`Legorol: yes`
`12:26.27`	`Legorol`	`So 17+1+1+1=19 is not a valid solution?`
`12:26.32`	`Drundia`	`apparently no`
`12:26.34`	`Legorol`	`lol`
`12:26.37`	`Legorol`	`i mean 16+1+1+1`
`12:26.48`	`Drundia`	`we need 1540 solutions, and if that would be allowed we get 3876`
`12:27.13`	`Legorol`	`i don't know how you got the 3876`
`12:27.47`	`Kalroth`	`They manually tried every number`
`12:27.52`	`Drundia`	`ha`
`12:28.08`	`Drundia`	`19! / (4!15!)`
`12:28.11`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) if x > 0 then return xfact(x-1) else return 1 end end; print(fact(19+4-1)/(fact(4)fact(19-1)))`
`12:28.12`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: 7315`
`12:28.20`	`Drundia`	`though i'm not sure if that was correct....`
`12:28.36`	`Legorol`	`that's a good start, but not entirely correct`
`12:28.47`	`Drundia`	`i thought about that too`
`12:28.49`	`Josh_Borke`	`i took combo too long ago to remember`
`12:28.52`	`Legorol`	`that expression doublecounts for example 16+1+1+1 and 1+16+1+1`
`12:29.07`	`Drundia`	`but it's valid`
`12:29.18`	`Legorol`	`valid in what sense? it doesn't give the answer to the problem :)`
`12:29.20`	`Drundia`	`x=16 y=1 and x=1 y=16 are distinct solutions`
`12:29.31`	`Legorol`	`oh`
`12:29.47`	`Legorol`	`ok, in that case, if x=y is allowed, then that is the right expression for that`
`12:29.57`	`Legorol`	`but you said it's not allowed, so`
`12:30.05`	`Drundia`	`we need number of distinct vectors {x,y,z,u} such that x+y+z+u=19`
`12:30.18`	`cncfanatics`	`bk`
`12:30.37`	`Legorol`	`Drundia: that definition would allow x=1`
`12:30.39`	`Legorol`	`Drundia: that definition would allow x=y`
`12:30.46`	`Drundia`	`{a1,a2,a3,a4} and {a2,a1,a3,a4} are supposed to be distinct`
`12:30.55`	`Legorol`	`ok`
`12:31.10`	`Drundia`	`uhm yes, but number of solutions doesn't match cncfanatics' book`
`12:31.11`	`Legorol`	`is there specifically a statement in the problem that you can't have x=y?`
`12:31.18`	`cncfanatics`	`no`
`12:31.22`	`cncfanatics`	`I gave the exact question text`
`12:31.26`	`Drundia`	`unless he failed at looking up the answer`
`12:31.26`	`cncfanatics`	`thats all I got`
`12:31.31`	`cncfanatics`	`together with (the answer is 1540)`
`12:31.49`	`cncfanatics`	`the answer is right under it :p`
`12:31.57`	`Legorol`	`I think if the question is "how much different answers are there for x + y + z + u = 19 with x, y, z, y element of N ?"`
`12:32.15`	`Legorol`	`that to me would mean that 16+1+1+1 is the same solution as 1+16+1+1`
`12:32.28`	`cncfanatics`	`not true`
`12:32.30`	`Legorol`	`so i think <Drundia> {a1,a2,a3,a4} and {a2,a1,a3,a4} are supposed to be distinct <= is wrong`
`12:32.42`	`cncfanatics`	`the first is x = 16, y = 1, x = 1, u = 1`
`12:32.44`	`Legorol`	`which would bring down the number of solutions form 19!/(4! 15!)`
`12:32.50`	`cncfanatics`	`the second one is x = 1, y = 16, z = 1, u = 1`
`12:32.53`	`cncfanatics`	`thats different isn't it ?`
`12:33.06`	`Legorol`	`the way i read the question, no`
`12:33.21`	`Legorol`	`that's the same solution to the question of: "how can you add up 4 numbers and get 19"`
`12:33.31`	`cncfanatics`	`for the record, 19!(4!*15!) is 3876`
`12:33.47`	`cncfanatics`	`19!/(4!*15!) even`
`12:33.50`	`cncfanatics`	`still too much`
`12:33.52`	`Legorol`	`yup`
`12:33.56`	`Legorol`	`that's exactly what i'm saying`
`12:34.11`	`Legorol`	`because that expression counts 16,1,1,1 and 1,16,1,1 etc.`
`12:34.28`	`Legorol`	`which, according to my interpretation of the question, should both be the same`
`12:34.36`	`Legorol`	`which will bring the number down from 3876 to even lower`
`12:34.40`	`Legorol`	`i'll now go and think about it`
`12:35.36`	`Josh_Borke`	`the problem is 19 choose 4 doesn't take in to account that you can only sum to 19 certain ways`
`12:35.46`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) if x > 0 then return xfact(x-1) else return 1 end end; print(fact(16)/(fact(4)fact(12)))`
`12:35.46`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: 1820`
`12:35.51`	`Josh_Borke`	`damn, so close`
`12:35.59`	`Josh_Borke`	`lua> fact = function(x) if x > 0 then return xfact(x-1) else return 1 end end; print(fact(15)/(fact(4)fact(11)))`
`12:36.00`	`lua_bot`	`Josh_Borke: 1365`
`12:36.03`	`Josh_Borke`	`oh well`
`12:36.44`	`cncfanatics`	`ah well w/e`
`12:36.49`	`Legorol`	`why are you doing it by trial and error :)`
`12:36.54`	`Legorol`	`i'm trying to actually solve it`
`12:37.05`	`Drundia`	`note that 1540 = 225711`
`12:37.20`	`Legorol`	`i'll be back if i know the answer`
`12:38.33`	`Kalroth`	`Otherwise don't come back!`
`12:39.36`	`Josh_Borke`	`ever!`
`12:40.34`	`Kalroth`	`I get 936 valid results, assuming N can be 0`
`12:42.44`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet15.nat.lancs.ac.uk)`
`12:43.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=whhao198@58.217.250.86)`
`12:45.02`	`Kalroth`	`hah`
`12:45.10`	`Kalroth`	`Drundia: zxyu CAN be the same`
`12:45.17`	`Drundia`	`yes`
`12:45.22`	`Drundia`	`i got result somehow`
`12:45.23`	`Kalroth`	`I get 1540 when I don't exclude them from being the same :)`
`12:45.42`	`Kalroth`	`936 valid results when they can't be the same, 1540 when they can`
`12:46.14`	`Kalroth`	`I bruteforced it though, have fun finding the formula :P`
`12:46.39`	`Drundia`	`lua> count=0; for i=0,19 do for j=0,19-i do for k=0,19-i-j do count = count+1; end; end; end; print(count);`
`12:46.40`	`lua_bot`	`Drundia: 1540`
`12:46.44`	`cncfanatics`	`so, z, x, y, u can be the same`
`12:46.46`	`Drundia`	`like that eh?`
`12:47.08`	`Kalroth`	`yup`
`12:47.12`	`cncfanatics`	`me thinks the answer should be 4^19 :(`
`12:47.21`	`Kalroth`	`was only to confirm if the values could be the same or not`
`12:47.32`	`cncfanatics`	`hmmm, shouldn't there be 4 vars ?`
`12:47.35`	`cncfanatics`	`there's only 3 in your loop`
`12:47.53`	`Drundia`	`last one should always be equal to 19-i-j-k`
`12:48.05`	`cncfanatics`	`true`
`12:48.11`	`cncfanatics`	`now I wonder how you find that DAMN formula`
`12:51.09`	`Drundia`	`22 choose 19`
`12:51.19`	`Drundia`	`i had such task once`
`12:52.37`	`Drundia`	`22 choose 3 = 22 choose 19 = (19 choose with repetitions 4)`
`12:53.30`	`cncfanatics`	`lua > count = 0; for x = 0, 19 do for y = 0, 19 - x do for z = 0, 19 - x - y do count = count +1; end end end print(count);`
`12:53.38`	`Drundia`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination`
`12:55.03`	`cncfanatics`	`then the answer is 22!/19!/3!`
`12:55.07`	`cncfanatics`	`but I still don't know why :p`
`12:55.22`	`Drundia`	`"The number of combinations with repetition can be calculated as:"`
`12:55.27`	`cncfanatics`	`is it number to find + number of repitions - 1`
`12:55.44`	`Drundia`	`that's exactly the formula for this thing`
`12:55.59`	`*** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`12:55.59`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v alestane] by ChanServ`
`12:56.02`	`cncfanatics`	`why can't you model it as putting 19 ones in four different groups as we did ?`
`12:56.06`	`cncfanatics`	`because that makes perfect sense to me`
`12:56.27`	`Drundia`	`i believe what we did is`
`12:56.36`	`Drundia`	`putting 4 ones into 19 different groups`
`12:56.48`	`cncfanatics`	`nope`
`12:56.55`	`cncfanatics`	`both 4 ^ 19 and 19 ^ 4 are wrong`
`12:57.02`	`foxlit`	`your original objection holds, tbh`
`12:57.07`	`cncfanatics`	`what we did is 4 ^19 and thats putting 19 ones in 4 diff groups as far as I know`
`12:57.26`	`Drundia`	`19 ^ 4 doesn't limit sum`
`12:57.38`	`cncfanatics`	`mmm, true indeed`
`12:57.43`	`Drundia`	`it just opens 19 possible values for each number and counts total number of combinations`
`12:58.07`	`Drundia`	`4^19 is 38 bits`
`12:58.17`	`foxlit`	`"Drundia: putting 4 ones into 19 different groups" on the other hand, is silly.`
`12:58.27`	`Drundia`	`some are empty`
`12:58.56`	`foxlit`	`the problem with 19 ones into 4 groups is that you count multiple ways of achieving the same final outcome as distinct; your question requires you to not differentiate between those ways`
`12:59.56`	`Kalroth`	`Just use the above lua code as an answer!`
`13:00.25`	`cncfanatics`	`Kalroth: my calculator doesn't do lua :p`
`13:00.28`	`cncfanatics`	`and I got exam about this tomorrow :D`
`13:00.33`	`Kalroth`	`Weak!`
`13:00.34`	`cncfanatics`	`I understand it now though :)`
`13:00.42`	`foxlit`	`your calculator probably does something, though?`
`13:00.46`	`foxlit`	`[which calculator?]`
`13:00.48`	`cncfanatics`	`actualy, hmmm, I could do it with my calculator`
`13:00.50`	`cncfanatics`	`Ti-83+`
`13:00.54`	`foxlit`	`meh`
`13:00.55`	`cncfanatics`	`can write a proggie for it`
`13:00.56`	`foxlit`	`has basic`
`13:01.09`	`cncfanatics`	`is that shit language it has called basic ?`
`13:01.11`	`cncfanatics`	`damn basic sucks`
`13:01.12`	`foxlit`	`can translate lua code to that more or less directly`
`13:01.13`	`Josh_Borke`	`hm, 22 because N includes 0?`
`13:01.20`	`Kalroth`	`22?`
`13:01.45`	`foxlit`	`That language is mostly fine for what it's designed for :)`
`13:01.55`	`Kalroth`	`The language is very .. basic!`
`13:02.21`	`foxlit`	`It's awesome for writing snake in!`
`13:02.24`	`Drundia`	`no because f[n][k] = C[n+k-1][k-1]`
`13:02.28`	`Kalroth`	`:D`
`13:02.29`	`foxlit`	`(oh, yeah, 3fps!)`
`13:02.34`	`cncfanatics`	`its SLOW`
`13:02.40`	`cncfanatics`	`I started the calc for it`
`13:02.42`	`cncfanatics`	`with the loop`
`13:02.46`	`cncfanatics`	`seeing how long its gonna take :p`
`13:02.47`	`foxlit`	`At the risk of overusing this`
`13:02.50`	`cncfanatics`	`its done now`
`13:02.52`	`foxlit`	`your mom is SLOW!`
`13:03.00`	`cncfanatics`	`yours is slower`
`13:03.02`	`cncfanatics`	`and more anoying`
`13:07.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten)`
`13:07.50`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Kaelten] by ChanServ`
`13:11.41`	`alestane`	`TWEET! Two minutes for taking a "Your Mom" shot.`
`13:16.21`	`foxlit`	`Hm, show the entire UIOptionsFrame or just my segment for addon screenshots :/`
`13:16.36`	`Shirik`	`cncfanatics: TI-83's interpreter is slow`
`13:16.45`	`Shirik`	`if you write in Z80 it's decent`
`13:16.55`	`Shirik`	`That's actually the first assembly language I learned :)`
`13:17.30`	`cncfanatics`	`can't write it directly in the calculator though`
`13:17.49`	`foxlit`	`sure you can?`
`13:17.49`	`Shirik`	`well you could`
`13:17.53`	`foxlit`	`AsmProg and the like`
`13:17.54`	`Shirik`	`it would be extremely difficult though`
`13:17.58`	`Shirik`	`yeah`
`13:18.09`	`Shirik`	`have fun looking up the opcodes though`
`13:18.10`	`Drundia`	`i can't believe that i spent so much time recalling that damn solution....`
`13:18.32`	`cncfanatics`	`not allowed to have any apps / progs in the calcu for the exam :)`
`13:18.44`	`Shirik`	`psh`
`13:18.50`	`foxlit`	`What's the exam?`
`13:18.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net)`
`13:18.54`	`Shirik`	`I had a program that allowed someone to do a "reset"`
`13:18.57`	`Shirik`	`and it will appear to reset`
`13:18.58`	`Drundia`	`then just remember formula for combinations with repetitions`
`13:19.00`	`Shirik`	`no programs, etc.`
`13:19.12`	`Shirik`	`but the right combination of keys brings it back out`
`13:19.18`	`cncfanatics`	`haha`
`13:19.19`	`cncfanatics`	`nice stuff`
`13:19.20`	`cncfanatics`	`gimme`
`13:19.25`	`foxlit`	`That's built into most calculators, tbh`
`13:19.26`	`Shirik`	`that was years ago`
`13:19.35`	`Shirik`	`I don't know where it is now :P`
`13:19.37`	`foxlit`	`I still haven't found a set of instructions that'd actually wipe your archive memory`
`13:20.19`	`foxlit`	`I take it national college math?`
`13:20.26`	`foxlit`	`It's a bit too late for IB math :)`
`13:20.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev g0urra (n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se)`
`13:21.07`	`Shirik`	`who are you talking to?`
`13:21.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev Daedals (n=Daedals@88.193.126.73)`
`13:21.18`	`Shirik`	`oh asking what test?`
`13:21.40`	`zespri`	`who's here???`
`13:21.40`	`cncfanatics`	`asking to me what exam I have tomorrow foxlit ? :unsure:`
`13:21.46`	`Daedals`	`hello :D`
`13:21.53`	`Shirik`	`hi`
`13:22.00`	`cncfanatics`	`zespri: the gods, some programmers, some trolls and lots of other ppl`
`13:22.06`	`foxlit`	`[15:18] cncfanatics: not allowed to have any apps / progs in the calcu for the exam :)`
`13:22.06`	`foxlit`	`[15:18] foxlit: What's the exam?`
`13:22.07`	`foxlit`	`yes!`
`13:22.35`	`zespri`	`and that's when I thought I were alone! =)`
`13:22.37`	`cncfanatics`	`my last maths exam ever before university :)`
`13:22.46`	`Shirik`	`IB?`
`13:22.53`	`cncfanatics`	`what does IB stand for ? -.-`
`13:23.06`	`Shirik`	`international baccalauriate (sp?)`
`13:23.06`	`batbot`	`Shirik, baccalaureate.`
`13:23.09`	`Shirik`	`that thing`
`13:23.20`	`cncfanatics`	`I have no idea`
`13:23.28`	`Shirik`	`that's why everyone says "IB" because nobody can spell it`
`13:23.31`	`cncfanatics`	`I just know that if I pass those exams I'm free to go to univ :p`
`13:23.34`	`foxlit`	`pfft`
`13:23.53`	`foxlit`	`baccalaureate, it's trivial!`
`13:23.55`	`alestane`	`You were only off by one letter.`
`13:23.56`	`Shirik`	`you have to pass an exam to go to university?`
`13:24.13`	`cncfanatics`	`not at the university itself`
`13:24.17`	`foxlit`	`(outrage!)`
`13:24.19`	`cncfanatics`	`just have some diploma`
`13:24.27`	`Shirik`	`aside from graduating from grade school, obviously`
`13:24.28`	`cncfanatics`	`which I forgot the name of in english`
`13:24.41`	`cncfanatics`	`I supose it'd be by final grade school exam I'm taking now then :p`
`13:24.48`	`Shirik`	`ah ok`
`13:24.50`	`cncfanatics`	`I'l clueless with those english terms though`
`13:25.12`	`foxlit`	`I'd imagine that's basically "graduating from grade school" :)`
`13:25.15`	`Shirik`	`english?`
`13:25.20`	`Shirik`	`you just called me english?`
`13:25.27`	`cncfanatics`	`I said you used english terms`
`13:25.31`	`cncfanatics`	`~failrik`
`13:25.32`	`purl`	`FAIL, Shirik, FAIL!`
`13:25.37`	`Shirik`	`american terms`
`13:25.38`	`cncfanatics`	`we're talking english here aren't we ?`
`13:25.46`	`Shirik`	`no we speak in american`
`13:25.48`	`foxlit`	`I'll call you english if it makes you happy!`
`13:25.56`	`cncfanatics`	`foxlit: call Shirik english plx`
`13:25.59`	`sacarasc`	`american is like english but more retarded`
`13:26.11`	`Shirik`	`american is english spelled correctly`
`13:26.33`	`cncfanatics`	`no, english is american spelled correctly`
`13:26.39`	`cncfanatics`	`or american is english spelled incorectly`
`13:26.54`	`durcyn`	`or you're english spelled pedantically`
`13:27.01`	`alestane`	`Insofar as MOST Americans still refer to the language they speak as English, yes, we are conversing in English here (unless you go by the definition that a language is a dialect with an army).`
`13:27.01`	`g0urra`	`orororor`
`13:27.20`	`Shirik`	`yes I refer to it as English too :P`
`13:27.29`	`cncfanatics`	`then what are we even QQ'ing about ?`
`13:27.30`	`Shirik`	`but I like to be evil too`
`13:27.37`	`Shirik`	`well I found something to argue about`
`13:27.41`	`cncfanatics`	`pure failrik imho`
`13:27.43`	`sacarasc`	`Shirik was just trolling a little`
`13:27.43`	`cncfanatics`	`~failrik`
`13:27.44`	`purl`	`FAIL, Shirik, FAIL!`
`13:28.01`	`Shirik`	`I've been staring at SSE for the last 3 days, I need something to ease my mind :P`
`13:28.43`	`Kalroth`	`Shirik: You need some booobies then!`
`13:29.07`	`cncfanatics`	`SSE ?`
`13:29.35`	`Shirik`	`streaming SIMD extensions`
`13:29.41`	`Shirik`	`yay for acronyms of acronyms`
`13:29.55`	`Shirik`	`streaming single instruction, multiple data extensions`
`13:30.20`	`cncfanatics`	`and now in english (american)`
`13:30.54`	`Shirik`	`part of the pentium series assembly instruction set`
`13:31.03`	`Shirik`	`designed for parallel processing`
`13:31.24`	`Shirik`	`~wiki SSE`
`13:31.32`	`Shirik`	`omg fail`
`13:31.39`	`Shirik`	`~wiki Streaming SIMD Extensions`
`13:31.48`	`Shirik`	`^ have fun`
`13:32.22`	`cncfanatics`	`no time`
`13:32.46`	`cncfanatics`	`my Combinatorics come first :p`
`13:32.59`	`cncfanatics`	`doing binomium of newton now`
`13:33.02`	`cncfanatics`	`damn I hate that`
`13:33.44`	`Josh_Borke`	`~failrik`
`13:33.45`	`purl`	`FAIL, Shirik, FAIL!`
`13:34.10`	`Shirik`	`basically it's just a set of opcodes that allows you to perform math on several numbers at the same time (in my case, 16 sets at a time)`
`13:34.25`	`cncfanatics`	`why would you want that ?`
`13:34.29`	`cncfanatics`	`whats its practical uses ?`
`13:34.46`	`Shirik`	`I'm doing vision processing`
`13:34.52`	`Shirik`	`that's 1.3 million numbers to crunch`
`13:35.03`	`Shirik`	`being able to work on several at the same time is a huge performance gain`
`13:35.05`	`cncfanatics`	`the more at the time the better I guess :p`
`13:35.16`	`cncfanatics`	`can't you use regular C/C++ for that ? :o`
`13:35.33`	`Shirik`	`I do, but the compiler won't use SSE because it can't make certain assumptions`
`13:35.43`	`Shirik`	`So this program's written in C++ with inline assembly`
`13:35.49`	`cncfanatics`	`I see`
`13:35.54`	`cncfanatics`	`what compiler ?`
`13:36.23`	`Shirik`	`Microsoft (R) C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 15.00.21022.08`
`13:36.24`	`Shirik`	`for Microsoft (R) .NET Framework version 2.00.50727.1433`
`13:36.34`	`cncfanatics`	`gcc ftw`
`13:36.59`	`Shirik`	`gcc wouldn't do it either :P`
`13:37.00`	`cncfanatics`	`seems like gcc would let you use SSE directly from c++`
`13:37.07`	`cncfanatics`	`http://www.tuleriit.ee/progs/rexample.php`
`13:37.08`	`nevcairiel`	`the ms compiler is far superior for windows programs`
`13:37.10`	`Shirik`	`oh it will use SSE`
`13:37.14`	`Shirik`	`The MS compiler does too`
`13:37.18`	`Shirik`	`but in this particular case, it won't`
`13:37.25`	`cncfanatics`	`hmmm, why is that ?`
`13:37.27`	`*** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202208125.customer.alfanett.no)`
`13:37.27`	`Shirik`	`because it requires certain assumptions that the compiler can't be aware of`
`13:37.40`	`Shirik`	`thus, the optimization is unsafe to the compiler (though I know it to be true)`
`13:38.03`	`cncfanatics`	`no way to force it ?`
`13:38.10`	`Shirik`	`use inline assembly :P`
`13:38.18`	`cncfanatics`	`nevcairiel: I know it is, I just don't like ms :p`
`13:38.24`	`cncfanatics`	`Skirik, fair enough I guess`
`13:38.34`	`nevcairiel`	`i bet there are some hidden #defines or such to make the compiler do it anyway`
`13:38.55`	`cncfanatics`	`that would spare quite some coding :p`
`13:38.57`	`Shirik`	`perhaps`
`13:39.04`	`Shirik`	`nah, I haven't coded that much actually`
`13:39.07`	`Shirik`	`and it works, very well`
`13:39.17`	`Shirik`	`but one instruction really bothers me because I'm nit-picky`
`13:39.42`	`cncfanatics`	`go go look up the define flags :p`
`13:40.01`	`Shirik`	`MOVDQU xmm0,XMMWORD PTR[eax]; Get next 5 pixels <-- unaligned memory access = performance loss, up to 500% loss even (though that's extremely worst case)`
`13:41.05`	`alestane`	`Someone remind me. Can you assign a char * directly to a string literal ala [[const char * str; str = "someLiteral";]]?`
`13:41.53`	`cncfanatics`	`alestane: I think so, not 100% sure`
`13:41.57`	`cncfanatics`	`try it ? :p`
`13:41.58`	`Shirik`	`not a char*`
`13:42.03`	`Shirik`	`const char* yes`
`13:42.10`	`cncfanatics`	`thats what he did`
`13:42.18`	`Shirik`	`yes he said both in his statement :)`
`13:42.27`	`cncfanatics`	`his code said const, good enough imho`
`13:42.45`	`alestane`	`So, string literals are considered arrays of const chars.`
`13:43.34`	`alestane`	`But could you say [[char* mutable = (char *) "someliteral";]?`
`13:43.41`	`nevcairiel`	`no`
`13:44.07`	`cncfanatics`	`why not, btw ?`
`13:44.09`	`cncfanatics`	`I'm wondering too`
`13:44.28`	`*** part/#wowuidev g0urra (n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se)`
`13:44.58`	`Shirik`	`well, you could alestane, with the right cast`
`13:44.58`	`Matrix110`	`Use CUDA`
`13:45.04`	`Shirik`	`but it will also likely break things`
`13:45.16`	`alestane`	`I'm not saying you should.`
`13:45.39`	`Shirik`	`but the compiler will make you explicitly do it, because it knows it's unsafe :)`
`13:45.47`	`alestane`	`casts are always dangerous ground.`
`13:45.50`	`Shirik`	`I'm not quite sure how to do it in C; in C++ you would need to use const_cast`
`13:45.54`	`cncfanatics`	`Shirik: why is it unsafe ? :p`
`13:46.10`	`cncfanatics`	`I barely ever do any C/C++ but planning to start rather intensivly soon, so`
`13:46.11`	`Shirik`	`because if you try to modify that char*, your program blows up`
`13:46.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (n=Dark_Elf@ip155.net253.mw.net)`
`13:46.35`	`Shirik`	`that address (in most cases) is not writable`
`13:46.49`	`cladhaire`	`so`
`13:47.06`	`cladhaire`	`who's gonna help me obtain an unlocked iphone 3g`
`13:47.08`	`Shirik`	`so your program segfaults?`
`13:47.08`	`Shirik`	`o`
`13:47.19`	`cncfanatics`	`hmmm, good to know`
`13:47.19`	`alestane`	`Or it could. You're modifying memory where the program stored literal data. If you write over the end of the string you could seriously disorder other literals or program code.`
`13:47.19`	`Shirik`	`have fun with that cladhaire :)`
`13:47.28`	`nevcairiel`	`there was a nice xkcd on segfaulting iirc .. :P`
`13:47.31`	`cladhaire`	`what, i need someone's help from the states`
`13:47.50`	`cncfanatics`	`why would you want to pay 1k for a phone ?`
`13:47.57`	`cncfanatics`	`seriously, I rather buy a laptop where I can put my SIM in`
`13:47.58`	`cladhaire`	`well first off`
`13:48.02`	`cladhaire`	`i wouldn't pay 1k`
`13:48.03`	`nevcairiel`	`alestane: i think the OS would block you from doing so, at least any newer os .. and DEP/NX most likely too`
`13:48.16`	`Shirik`	`because cladhaire got rich off his book and now can use dollar bills as toilet paper`
`13:48.20`	`cladhaire`	`...`
`13:48.22`	`cladhaire`	`they don't cost 1k`
`13:48.24`	`Shirik`	`<3`
`13:48.24`	`cladhaire`	`not even close to it`
`13:48.28`	`cladhaire`	`smartasses`
`13:48.42`	`nevcairiel`	`199 USD with a contract, no idea what you pay to get a unlocked one`
`13:48.47`	`cladhaire`	`not 1k`
`13:48.49`	`cladhaire`	`not even close :P`
`13:48.53`	`cncfanatics`	`I heard 1k from a friend`
`13:49.00`	`cncfanatics`	`seems he talked bullshit`
`13:49.03`	`cladhaire`	`indeed.`
`13:49.04`	`Shirik`	`nevcairiel: aside from DEP, I'm fairly certain that Windows also does not set up the processor to make the code segment writable`
`13:49.07`	`cncfanatics`	`199 USD is actualy a good price, I'd buy one :p`
`13:49.09`	`Matrix110`	`in Italiy 450`
`13:49.09`	`Shirik`	`which means it should segfault`
`13:49.12`	`Matrix110`	`so around 600$`
`13:49.13`	`cladhaire`	`i'd get a v1`
`13:49.14`	`cncfanatics`	`cladhaire: if you find the way to get one, tell meh`
`13:49.17`	`cladhaire`	`but i only have 3g towers`
`13:49.42`	`cladhaire`	`so its silly not to`
`13:49.42`	`alestane`	`nevcairiel: So instead of getting a snow crash or a kernel panic, your program gets shut down for regulatory infractions. I suppose that's marginally better but as far as the program is concerned it's all the same thing.`
`13:49.42`	`Shirik`	`but yes DEP wouldn't like it either :)`
`13:49.45`	`Matrix110`	`The problem is shops arent allowed to sell Iphone without contract`
`13:49.47`	`Matrix110`	`in the US`
`13:49.47`	`Shirik`	`oh yeah, the OS won't die :P`
`13:49.53`	`Shirik`	`but you'll get a GPF or something`
`13:50.00`	`alestane`	`What's DEP?`
`13:50.00`	`cladhaire`	`Matrix110: lots of people do things they're not supposed to do`
`13:50.05`	`Shirik`	`data execution prevention`
`13:50.11`	`cladhaire`	`and i would like to capatalize on that`
`13:50.16`	`Matrix110`	`I know cladhaire but now its harder to go out without a contract`
`13:50.23`	`Matrix110`	`as the unlocking is done in the shop now`
`13:50.26`	`Shirik`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Execution_Prevention`
`13:50.32`	`Matrix110`	`and it prolly needs time to reverse engineer`
`13:50.35`	`cladhaire`	`the activation`
`13:50.36`	`cladhaire`	`not unlocking`
`13:50.39`	`cladhaire`	`and i dont think it'll be long`
`13:50.47`	`alestane`	`I think I can grok the basic idea fairly well from the expansion of the acronym, but thank you.`
`13:50.51`	`Shirik`	`But really the processor will detect it and throw a #GP exception anyway, if the OS works right`
`13:51.26`	`cncfanatics`	`I supose the OS only wants to execute signed code ?`
`13:51.29`	`nevcairiel`	`most people dont turn on DEP anyway`
`13:51.37`	`nevcairiel`	`but it doesnt hurt!`
`13:51.42`	`nevcairiel`	`DEP in OptOut mode ftw`
`13:53.41`	`alestane`	`GPF...up there with Sluggy Freelance in the arena of strips that went on too long for their own good.`
`13:53.58`	`Shirik`	`huh?`
`13:54.16`	`Shirik`	`what's sluggy freelance?`
`13:54.23`	`Fisker-`	`iDestroy`
`13:54.48`	`Shirik`	`iDestroy?`
`13:54.58`	`alestane`	`Shirik: is that a serious question?`
`13:55.26`	`alestane`	`It's like destroying, only with a shiny aluminum-brushed finish and helpful registration menus.`
`13:56.07`	`Shirik`	`yes >.>`
`13:57.14`	`alestane`	`Shirik: http://sluggy.com/daily.php?date=970825 . That's how it started. The first couple years have a lot of good stuff but the stories got increasingly wierder.`
`13:59.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net)`
`14:00.16`	`Legorol`	`nevcairiel, Drundia etc. in case you guys haven't got the solution yet, here it is:`
`14:01.55`	`Legorol`	`cncfanatics: has anyone explained to you satisfactorily why the answer is 22 choose 19?`
`14:02.04`	`Legorol`	`If not, I can explain.`
`14:02.19`	`cncfanatics`	`number to get + number of variables - 1`
`14:02.26`	`cncfanatics`	`at least thats if I got it right`
`14:02.48`	`cncfanatics`	`number to get choose number of variables - 1 *`
`14:03.00`	`Legorol`	`That's the right expression, but can you tell why that is the right expression ;-)`
`14:03.05`	`cncfanatics`	`though I don't really know why indeed`
`14:03.10`	`Legorol`	`I can explain that part :)`
`14:03.12`	`cncfanatics`	`(well, I know vaguely)`
`14:03.15`	`nevcairiel`	`wiat what, did i miss something?`
`14:03.21`	`cncfanatics`	`wld appreciate it`
`14:03.28`	`nevcairiel`	`i have no idea what you are talking about`
`14:03.36`	`Legorol`	`It seems you guys already figured out you can only get 1540 as the answer if you do allow doublecounting`
`14:03.55`	`Legorol`	`so 19,0,0,0 and 0,19,0,0 count as separate solutions for that question`
`14:03.58`	`Kalroth`	`yup`
`14:04.06`	`Legorol`	`Here is how you end up with 22 choose 19 as the formula:`
`14:04.19`	`Kalroth`	`nevcairiel: You're always confused1`
`14:04.22`	`Legorol`	`Consider that you have 19 apples. Your task is to divide them into 4 piles.`
`14:04.37`	`Kalroth`	`no oranges?`
`14:04.44`	`Kalroth`	`(sorry, I'll shut :P)`
`14:04.48`	`cncfanatics`	`first thought was 4 ^ 19, but that makes order important, and it isn't`
`14:04.53`	`Legorol`	`Consider doing it like this: you put the 19 apples down in a straight row, take 3 pieces of paper,`
`14:05.02`	`Legorol`	`and decide to insert those 3 pieces of paper anywhere in the row that you like`
`14:05.14`	`Kalroth`	`Aye`
`14:05.15`	`Legorol`	`you can insert them all before the apples or after the apples even if you want`
`14:05.29`	`Legorol`	`that will devide the apples into 4 piles`
`14:05.35`	`Legorol`	`you might have something like this:`
`14:05.40`	`Legorol`	`ooooo\|ooooooooo\|oo\|oooo`
`14:05.51`	`cncfanatics`	`indeed, how does that get us to the formula though ?`
`14:05.59`	`Legorol`	`Now look at that pattern: the question is, how many patterns like that can you make.`
`14:06.03`	`Legorol`	`i am coming to that, cncfanatics`
`14:06.13`	`Kalroth`	`That's a pretty cool way of describing the problem :)`
`14:06.14`	`krka`	`lol, everything i said has been ignored!`
`14:06.15`	`cncfanatics`	`well, you have to choose a position for each piece of paper`
`14:06.18`	`Kalroth`	`krka: shut up!`
`14:06.19`	`krka`	`i need to l2identify`
`14:06.21`	`cncfanatics`	`the position is a number from 0 to 19`
`14:06.26`	`Legorol`	`cncfanatics: that's the wrong way to think about it`
`14:06.30`	`krka`	`16:03:40 <krka_> you have 19 balls and four colors`
`14:06.30`	`krka`	`16:03:47 <krka_> find all combinations of colors / counts`
`14:06.32`	`Legorol`	`The correct way to think about it is this:`
`14:06.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight)`
`14:06.33`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v ckknight] by ChanServ`
`14:06.45`	`Kalroth`	`krka: always with the balls`
`14:06.46`	`Legorol`	`Consider all 22 of those characters in the pattern to be different`
`14:06.54`	`cncfanatics`	`ah, I see`
`14:07.16`	`cncfanatics`	`and then find out how much different "words" you can make with those 22 characters when one repeats 3 times and the other 19 times`
`14:07.16`	`*** join/#wowuidev veggteppey (n=veggtepp@ti0180a340-0156.bb.online.no)`
`14:07.21`	`Legorol`	`so that's 22!, then you consider that 19 of them are identical (hence divide by 19!), and that 3 of them are identical (hence divide by 3!)`
`14:07.24`	`cncfanatics`	`which is 22! / ( 19! * 3!)`
`14:07.28`	`Legorol`	`yup`
`14:07.29`	`cncfanatics`	`<3 you`
`14:07.39`	`cncfanatics`	`thanks`
`14:07.40`	`Kalroth`	`See, I told you Legorol could do it!`
`14:07.45`	`Legorol`	`well i can do the explanation`
`14:07.52`	`cncfanatics`	`Legorol also told me Kalroth couldn't do it !`
`14:08.00`	`Kalroth`	`Also his brain needed the workout, I heard he almost rolled a warlock`
`14:08.04`	`Legorol`	`if the question asked for 19,0,0,0 and 0,19,0,0 to be counted as 1, the answer is lot harder`
`14:08.09`	`Legorol`	`lol Kalroth`
`14:08.22`	`Kalroth`	`cncfanatics: I could solve it by bruteforce, I could never come up with the formula :)`
`14:08.40`	`cncfanatics`	`well, it makes sense now`
`14:08.45`	`cncfanatics`	`I should have thought of that myself rly :(`
`14:08.51`	`Legorol`	`This way of looking at what X choose Y means is actually pretty standard.`
`14:08.54`	`Legorol`	`I didn't come up with it.`
`14:09.06`	`Kalroth`	`I choose you, pikachoo!`
`14:09.18`	`cncfanatics`	`~lart Kalroth`
`14:09.18`	`purl`	`puts Kalroth through a wood chipper`
`14:09.21`	`Kalroth`	`:(`
`14:09.34`	`cncfanatics`	`~lart Kalroth and pikachoo`
`14:09.34`	`purl`	`steals Kalroth and pikachoo's mojo`
`14:10.02`	`Legorol`	`krka: what you said is correct, but it doesn't include two things:`
`14:10.18`	`cncfanatics`	`Legorol: feel like solving my exam tomorrow ? :p`
`14:10.20`	`Legorol`	`1) the question as stated is ambiguous a bit, not clear if you are allowed to count the same solution multiple times`
`14:10.31`	`Legorol`	`2) it doesn't have a good explanation for other people :)`
`14:10.39`	`krka`	`i am not sure i ever read the original one`
`14:10.51`	`krka`	`i remember the piles from combinatorics class though!`
`14:10.57`	`Legorol`	`cncfanatics: i actually spent most of the time trying to solve the harder version`
`14:10.57`	`cncfanatics`	`someone paste it him :D it fell of my chatlog`
`14:11.17`	`cncfanatics`	`Legorol: how would you solve that one ?`
`14:11.17`	`Legorol`	`krka: "how much different answers are there for x + y + z + u = 19 with x, y, z, y element of N ?"`
`14:11.30`	`Fisker-`	`cncfanatics`
`14:11.31`	`krka`	`how many, surely?`
`14:11.31`	`Fisker-`	`i am you`
`14:11.39`	`Legorol`	`krka: i just copy/pasted`
`14:11.40`	`cncfanatics`	`Fisker-: I am you`
`14:11.45`	`krka`	`but still!`
`14:11.53`	`Fisker-`	`damn`
`14:11.56`	`Fisker-`	`mindfuck`
`14:12.00`	`Legorol`	`the problem is that the way it's phrased, to me it seemed like they want to count 19,0,0,0 and 0,19,0,0 as the same solution`
`14:12.01`	`cncfanatics`	`:D`
`14:12.04`	`Legorol`	`which makes the problem a lot harder`
`14:12.17`	`krka`	`well, x = 19 and y = 19 are not the same`
`14:12.22`	`krka`	`a lot?`
`14:12.25`	`Fisker-`	`i want you krka`
`14:12.29`	`krka`	`can't you just divide by 4! or something?`
`14:12.37`	`cncfanatics`	`Legorol: doesn't seem like that to me, in an equation, x = 10, y = 9, z = 0, u = 0 sure isn't the same answer as x = 9, y = 10, z = 0, u = 0 ?`
`14:12.38`	`Legorol`	`nope, because you have to consider even/odd numbers etc.`
`14:12.51`	`krka`	`what do you mean?`
`14:13.04`	`Legorol`	`krka: simple example with two variables. x+y=N`
`14:13.28`	`Legorol`	`for N=4, the answer is 3. For N=5, the answer is also 3.`
`14:13.37`	`Legorol`	`N=4: 4,0; 3,1; 2,2`
`14:13.46`	`Legorol`	`N=5: 5,0; 4,1; 3,2`
`14:14.04`	`krka`	`yes`
`14:14.04`	`Legorol`	`For x+y=N, the answer is just math.ceil(N/2)`
`14:14.10`	`krka`	`so you divide by 2 in both cases :P`
`14:14.20`	`Legorol`	`But it gets lot more complicated as you increase the number of dimensions.`
`14:14.30`	`cncfanatics`	`for N = 19 its anoying :p`
`14:14.40`	`Shirik`	`nCr?`
`14:14.42`	`Legorol`	`It's not the value of N that makes it easy or hard`
`14:14.48`	`krka`	`it's the number of variables`
`14:15.00`	`cncfanatics`	`my bad there, indeed :p`
`14:15.16`	`*** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-68-62-4-140.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`14:15.25`	`Legorol`	`krka: the answer is approximately NC4 divided by 4!, but because of the granularity of integers, it's only an approximate formula`
`14:15.32`	`cladhaire`	`fucking people and their private servers`
`14:15.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev AckisWork (i=8ee553e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7e6bbbbed9f5a86c)`
`14:15.41`	`Legorol`	`cladhaire: i couldn't agree more`
`14:15.56`	`cladhaire`	`this one went to lhf in #lua`
`14:16.04`	`cncfanatics`	`lhf ?`
`14:16.26`	`cncfanatics`	`oh, thats an nicknale`
`14:16.28`	`cladhaire`	`Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo`
`14:16.29`	`cncfanatics`	`nickname*`
`14:16.31`	`cladhaire`	`one of the authors of Lua`
`14:16.40`	`Legorol`	`lol, what does he have to do with private servers?`
`14:16.40`	`Shirik`	`what did lhf do?`
`14:16.45`	`cladhaire`	`sent them to me`
`14:16.46`	`cncfanatics`	`what did said private server person do ? :p`
`14:16.48`	`Shirik`	`lmao`
`14:16.50`	`Shirik`	`send them to me!`
`14:16.51`	`cladhaire`	`Legorol: someone went to him asking about fucking addons`
`14:17.07`	`Legorol`	`that in itself is not a problem`
`14:17.16`	`Legorol`	`i take it said person asking was a private server user`
`14:17.18`	`cncfanatics`	`indeed, its lua :p`
`14:17.31`	`cladhaire`	`and anyone actually interested in addons knows how to find this hcannel`
`14:17.35`	`cladhaire`	`before finding the #lua irc channel`
`14:17.39`	`cladhaire`	`don't pretend it's otherwise :P`
`14:17.47`	`Legorol`	`i agree that that is most often the case`
`14:17.49`	`Kalroth`	`what if you add another dimension?! -- "how many different answers are there for x + y + z + u + w = 19 with x, y, z, u, w element of N ?"`
`14:17.56`	`cladhaire`	`99% of the people who end up there first know absolutely nothing about this community, because they aren't a part of the wow community.`
`14:18.08`	`cncfanatics`	`Kalroth: 24 choose 19`
`14:18.11`	`alestane`	`Well, I'd say the resources to find this channel are more likely to be encountered first, anyway.`
`14:18.16`	`Legorol`	`Kalroth: depending on how you interpret the problem, the answer is either exactly 19C5, or approximately 19C5/5!`
`14:18.27`	`Legorol`	`s/19/24/`
`14:18.31`	`Legorol`	`bah`
`14:18.34`	`Legorol`	`not 24, 23`
`14:18.38`	`Kalroth`	`I get the number 8855, is that wrong?`
`14:18.43`	`Legorol`	`i'm so not paying attention`
`14:19.14`	`cncfanatics`	`now, onto learning binomial & normal stuff`
`14:19.33`	`alestane`	`So did this user do something particularly asshatted, or was being a private server user enough?`
`14:19.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (n=Dark_Elf@ip13.net253.mw.net)`
`14:19.35`	`krka`	`i get the same number Kalroth`
`14:19.49`	`Legorol`	`hm, i get 33649`
`14:19.49`	`cladhaire`	`it was more the sequence of events`
`14:19.57`	`cladhaire`	`and the way they spoke when they contacted me`
`14:20.15`	`Legorol`	`23C5=33649 for me`
`14:20.44`	`cncfanatics`	`cladhaire: mind copy/pasting ?`
`14:20.48`	`cladhaire`	`yes`
`14:20.52`	`cladhaire`	`its not really important`
`14:21.03`	`Kalroth`	`Legorol: That's a bit much, isn't it?`
`14:21.10`	`Legorol`	`well that's the answer`
`14:21.19`	`Kalroth`	`That's not what I get though :p`
`14:21.23`	`Legorol`	`how did you get 8855?`
`14:21.29`	`Kalroth`	`brute force :)`
`14:21.34`	`krka`	`i used dynamic programming`
`14:21.42`	`Kalroth`	`I made 5 loops`
`14:21.44`	`Legorol`	`copy/paste plx`
`14:21.46`	`krka`	`maybe my recursion is broken`
`14:21.48`	`Legorol`	`or pastey`
`14:21.48`	`cncfanatics`	`24 nCr 19 is 42504 in my calculator :p`
`14:21.55`	`Kalroth`	`Can you read pascal, Legorol?`
`14:22.15`	`Shirik`	`23C19 is 8855, FYI`
`14:22.20`	`Kalroth`	`^`
`14:22.22`	`cncfanatics`	`ups, 23`
`14:22.29`	`krka`	`Legorol: http://pastey.net/89687`
`14:22.44`	`Shirik`	`which is also 23C...4?`
`14:22.50`	`Shirik`	`yeah, 23C4`
`14:23.06`	`Shirik`	`been way too long since I mess with this stuff`
`14:23.20`	`cncfanatics`	`hehe, I didn't mess with it since 4 months ago and I got exam about it tomorrow :D`
`14:23.50`	`Legorol`	`oops i get 8855 too, i was doing it wrong :D`
`14:24.04`	`Kalroth`	`http://stuff.pastey.net/89688 is as bruteforce as it gets`
`14:24.16`	`Kalroth`	`and yes, pascal isn't pretty, so foff!`
`14:24.40`	`cncfanatics`	`lua ftw`
`14:24.46`	`Legorol`	`lol Kalroth, idd it's as bruteforce as it gets`
`14:25.01`	`krka`	`i think mine is more elegant :P`
`14:25.09`	`Kalroth`	`it's quick though, only around 180k cycles ;P`
`14:25.12`	`Legorol`	`and btw, you can pretty much read any sensible high-level language, even ify ou don't know it`
`14:25.19`	`krka`	`algorithmic wise anyway, the actual code could be neater`
`14:25.30`	`Kalroth`	`and the delphi compiler makes some awesome ASM out of that loop`
`14:25.40`	`Kalroth`	`time to run, bye!`
`14:25.44`	`dylanm`	`So that rules out Perl, eh?`
`14:26.57`	`Legorol`	`krka: if i read it right, you are generating the Pascal triangle`
`14:27.21`	`krka`	`hm, that would make sense`
`14:27.22`	`Shirik`	`sure`
`14:27.29`	`Shirik`	`pascal's triangle is just nCr`
`14:27.34`	`Legorol`	`i know`
`14:27.36`	`krka`	`i wrote the code before i realised what the actual math-solution was`
`14:27.39`	`Legorol`	`i was looking at krka's code`
`14:27.46`	`Shirik`	`krka :)`
`14:27.52`	`Shirik`	`spoken like a true programmer`
`14:27.59`	`krka`	`i just figured it was an easy dynamic programming problem!`
`14:28.03`	`krka`	`(which it was)`
`14:28.14`	`krka`	`recursion formulae FTW`
`14:28.38`	`Legorol`	`ok so you are just generating a portion of the Pascal triangle`
`14:28.52`	`Legorol`	`nvm, you are generating the whole thing`
`14:29.00`	`Legorol`	`rotate your output by 45 degrees and there it is`
`14:29.11`	`krka`	`if by whole you mean 5x19 :P`
`14:29.20`	`Legorol`	`yeah yeah whatever`
`14:29.42`	`krka`	`now that you identified it, i feel sort of ashamed of my inefficient triangle calculation :)`
`14:29.44`	`Legorol`	`Here's an interesting view on the question`
`14:29.49`	`Legorol`	`just to add another dimension to the discussion`
`14:29.57`	`Legorol`	`x+y=N is the equation of a line`
`14:30.04`	`Legorol`	`x+y+z=N is the equation of a plane`
`14:30.05`	`Legorol`	`etc.`
`14:30.24`	`krka`	`boring lines and planes, i'd prefer k1x + k2y = N :P`
`14:30.35`	`Legorol`	`So by asking to solve x+y+z+u=N, you are asking the question: How many points are there in the volume described by that equation.`
`14:31.19`	`Legorol`	`So we have a linear programming problem. Linear equation for x,y,z and u, with constraints of x>=0 etc.`
`14:31.27`	`Legorol`	`We could use Simplex to solve it maybe?`
`14:31.36`	`Drundia`	`maybe`
`14:31.36`	`Legorol`	`or am i off the hook here`
`14:31.50`	`Legorol`	`i'm probably mixing things up the wrong way`
`14:32.13`	`krka`	`but this isn't continuous, it's discrete`
`14:32.21`	`Legorol`	`which is what makes it a bitch :/`
`14:32.30`	`Legorol`	`youa re right, simplex wouldn't work.`
`14:32.49`	`krka`	`i could make dynamic programming for your difficult one btw`
`14:32.54`	`krka`	`just enforce ordered answer`
`14:33.02`	`krka`	`x <= y <= z <= u`
`14:33.19`	`Legorol`	`I don't know what dynamic programming is, but if you say so :)`
`14:33.36`	`krka`	`basically you figure out a recursion formula`
`14:33.45`	`cncfanatics`	`hmmm`
`14:33.47`	`krka`	`and use cache to avoid recalculating known inputs`
`14:34.06`	`krka`	`usually you can then refactor it from top-down to bottom-up by generating a table`
`14:34.26`	`krka`	`(i think DP is a silly name for it tbh)`
`14:34.32`	`krka`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_programming`
`14:34.43`	`cncfanatics`	`basicly just programming out the answer :p`
`14:34.53`	`Drundia`	`x+y+z+u=N => x can take N+1 values. then y can take between 1 and N+1 values, which averages (N+2)/2, then z can take between 1 and N+1 values using some different distribution and so number of possible values averages (N+3)/3 and so on....`
`14:39.17`	`krka`	`hm, tricky, this`
`14:39.23`	`krka`	`i think i need 3 or 4 inputs`
`14:39.37`	`cncfanatics`	`like that: krka: http://www.pastey.net/89689`
`14:40.10`	`krka`	`yeah, except that's horribly inefficient :P`
`14:40.25`	`cncfanatics`	`code it, execute it, make next exercise while it executes :p`
`14:41.35`	`cncfanatics`	`lua> http://www.pastey.net/89689`
`14:41.35`	`cncfanatics`	`(does the lua bot still do pasteys ?)`
`14:41.36`	`lua_bot`	`cncfanatics: luabot:1: '<name>' expected near '/'`
`14:41.43`	`cncfanatics`	`guess not`
`14:41.51`	`cladhaire`	`cide does`
`14:41.55`	`cladhaire`	`i just haven't coded it in`
`14:41.57`	`cladhaire`	`use codepad.org`
`14:42.24`	`Drundia`	`maybe`
`14:42.28`	`Drundia`	`!lua http://www.pastey.net/89689`
`14:42.28`	`batbot`	`Drundia: @ [string "http://www.pastey.net/89689"]:1: '<name>' expected near '/'`
`14:42.33`	`Drundia`	`:(`
`14:42.38`	`Drundia`	`they are all so evil`
`14:42.46`	`Shirik`	`>>> http://www.pastey.net/89689`
`14:42.49`	`Shirik`	`oh Cide's not here`
`14:42.56`	`Drundia`	`bots are mean`
`14:43.06`	`Drundia`	`~seen Cide`
`14:43.16`	`purl`	`cide <n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 17h 25m 19s ago, saying: 'inflammatory?'.`
`14:43.22`	`cncfanatics`	`http://codepad.org/iX7bV6sT what the ?`
`14:43.35`	`Shirik`	`what is codepad.org?`
`14:43.42`	`Drundia`	`ha, it's only me that didn't see him for ages....`
`14:44.07`	`cladhaire`	`cncfanatics: ... why are you using c style loops`
`14:44.08`	`cladhaire`	`in lua`
`14:44.09`	`cladhaire`	`nubtard`
`14:44.11`	`Shirik`	`cncfanatics: that's not how you do a for loop in lua`
`14:44.14`	`Shirik`	`that's C`
`14:44.15`	`cncfanatics`	`ups`
`14:44.17`	`cncfanatics`	`too much C lately`
`14:44.22`	`cncfanatics`	`(and java)`
`14:44.27`	`Shirik`	`it also doesn't have ++`
`14:44.35`	`Shirik`	`as is on line 6`
`14:44.44`	`cncfanatics`	`been way too long`
`14:45.31`	`Drundia`	`hmmm for(x = 0; x >= 19; x++) does 0 iterations`
`14:46.03`	`cncfanatics`	`x <= 19 ?`
`14:46.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net)`
`14:46.13`	`nevcairiel`	`yeah second condition has to be tree`
`14:46.14`	`cncfanatics`	`I'm rather confused, heh`
`14:46.19`	`nevcairiel`	`*true`
`14:46.26`	`Drundia`	`yes, you should have used that one for c loop`
`14:48.29`	`cncfanatics`	`hmmm, I have to do some art work for tomorrow too`
`14:48.33`	`cncfanatics`	`who says I should skip it ? :p`
`14:49.30`	`nevcairiel`	`art? definately skip`
`14:56.58`	`Drundia`	`lua> a=0; for i=1,20 do a=a+i*(20-i); end; print(a)`
`14:56.58`	`lua_bot`	`Drundia: 1330`
`14:57.18`	`Drundia`	`lua> a=0; for i=1,20 do a=a+i*(21-i); end; print(a)`
`14:57.18`	`lua_bot`	`Drundia: 1540`
`14:57.27`	`Drundia`	`haxx!`
`14:57.43`	`*** join/#wowuidev subu (n=s@g221.ip7.netikka.fi)`
`15:05.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev ZealotOnAStick (n=zoas@adsl-074-239-065-141.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net)`
`15:06.49`	`krka`	`Legorol: http://www.pastey.net/89690`
`15:07.20`	`krka`	`not sure if it's correct`
`15:07.30`	`krka`	`what was your answer for the original question without duplicate vars?`
`15:07.50`	`krka`	`i get 97 if i allow 0 and 57 if not`
`15:07.56`	`krka`	`seems a bit low!`
`15:08.13`	`Shirik`	`This seems so strange to write`
`15:08.25`	`Shirik`	`"The left half should have count/2 objects, and the right half should have count-count/2 objects"`
`15:08.42`	`krka`	`(19 choose 5) / (5 !) = 96.9`
`15:08.45`	`Shirik`	`some day years from now someone's going to read that and be like "why didn't he just put count/2 and count/2" and then break something and then I'll be like "I warned you!"`
`15:08.56`	`krka`	`that's what google says so i guess that my answer is correct`
`15:09.15`	`Drundia`	`(19+5-1) choose 19`
`15:09.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com)`
`15:09.32`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ`
`15:09.39`	`Shirik`	`>>> http://www.pastey.net/89689`
`15:09.40`	`Drundia`	`that's the answer for sum of 5 naturals equal to 19`
`15:09.47`	`Shirik`	`hi Cide`
`15:10.03`	`krka`	`Drundia: right but now i am trying to figure out legorols alternative question`
`15:10.05`	`Drundia`	`Shirik, if that was also valid lua code...`
`15:10.10`	`Drundia`	`oh`
`15:10.12`	`Cide`	`hi Shirik`
`15:10.20`	`Drundia`	`what was it? if we exclude repeats?`
`15:10.22`	`Cide`	`[string "count = 0;..."]:2: '<name>' expected near '('`
`15:10.27`	`Cide`	`was the error`
`15:10.48`	`Cide`	`perhaps because that's c++ and not lua`
`15:11.02`	`Cide`	`it's not c++ either`
`15:11.05`	`Cide`	`wtf is that Shirik?`
`15:11.06`	`Shirik`	`I know`
`15:11.09`	`Drundia`	`Cide, that's someone failure who mixed up stuff :)`
`15:11.15`	`Drundia`	`someone's`
`15:11.21`	`Cide`	`well, unless count was previously declared`
`15:11.23`	`Shirik`	`cough cncfanatics cough`
`15:11.29`	`Cide`	`anyway, fail`
`15:11.52`	`Drundia`	`what about do, end, then?`
`15:12.08`	`Cide`	`don't start`
`15:12.11`	`Cide`	`I just got home from work :/`
`15:13.16`	`Drundia`	`krka, so you want to treat 1,2,3,4,5 and 5,4,3,2,1 (as an example) as one solution?`
`15:14.27`	`Legorol`	`krka: i get 94 if i allow 0`
`15:15.24`	`*** part/#wowuidev Apoco (i=Apoco@adsl-99-172-128-236.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net)`
`15:17.04`	`krka`	`interesting`
`15:17.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev dylanm_ (n=dylanm@c-68-62-4-140.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`15:17.12`	`krka`	`Drundia: yes`
`15:17.25`	`krka`	`Legorol: and if you allow 1-19?`
`15:17.33`	`Legorol`	`i'll go check`
`15:17.45`	`krka`	`weird that ours diff by 3`
`15:18.03`	`Cide`	`floating point error!`
`15:18.05`	`krka`	`how did you calculate it?`
`15:18.11`	`Legorol`	`i get 54`
`15:18.11`	`krka`	`no floating points in my code!`
`15:18.16`	`krka`	`i get 57`
`15:18.19`	`krka`	`diff by 3 again O_o`
`15:18.20`	`Legorol`	`no floats for me either`
`15:18.20`	`Cide`	`that's what you'd think`
`15:18.22`	`Legorol`	`i'll pastey it`
`15:18.22`	`Cide`	`but they're there`
`15:18.27`	`Cide`	`hiding in the dark`
`15:18.28`	`Drundia`	`i don't get any of these numbers`
`15:18.29`	`Cide`	`waiting for you`
`15:18.35`	`Drundia`	`for 4 or 5 variables`
`15:18.39`	`Drundia`	`did you use 3?`
`15:18.44`	`krka`	`4 variables`
`15:19.07`	`Legorol`	`http://pastey.net/89692`
`15:19.11`	`Legorol`	`this is totally bruteforce`
`15:19.21`	`Legorol`	`I have a slightly more sophisticated one as well, gives same answers`
`15:19.54`	`Drundia`	`314 with zero, allowed repetitions and checking order`
`15:20.21`	`Legorol`	`what do you mean by allowing repetitions?`
`15:20.34`	`Legorol`	`oh, as in 5,5,5,4 is allowed`
`15:20.39`	`Drundia`	`oh yes`
`15:20.42`	`Drundia`	`that`
`15:20.46`	`Drundia`	`and time to fix mistake`
`15:21.07`	`krka`	`Legorol: where does yours check ordering?`
`15:21.24`	`krka`	`ah, yours is decreaseing`
`15:21.25`	`krka`	`never mind`
`15:21.26`	`Legorol`	`yup`
`15:21.30`	`Drundia`	`now 94`
`15:21.40`	`Legorol`	`so far we are 2 against krka ;-)`
`15:21.47`	`krka`	`damn it :)`
`15:21.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev Apoco (i=Apoco@adsl-99-172-128-236.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net)`
`15:21.57`	`krka`	`maybe we can test with a smaller test case and enumerate them`
`15:21.58`	`Legorol`	`plus, i have actually looked through that 94 answer`
`15:22.07`	`Legorol`	`krka, dump the solutions`
`15:22.15`	`Legorol`	`although if you are doing DP, i guess you don't have the solutions`
`15:22.26`	`krka`	`exactly :(`
`15:22.35`	`krka`	`4 vars, sum 6, allow 0`
`15:22.36`	`Legorol`	`let's try N=1`
`15:22.37`	`krka`	`go !`
`15:22.47`	`krka`	`N=1 is trivial, always one solution`
`15:23.08`	`MoonWolf`	`N=-0.5`
`15:23.25`	`Legorol`	`I get 9`
`15:23.34`	`Legorol`	`2 if the minimum is 1`
`15:23.53`	`Legorol`	`(those two are for N=6)`
`15:24.11`	`Cide`	`what are you doing exactly?`
`15:24.16`	`Legorol`	`welcome to the fun, Cide`
`15:24.18`	`*** join/#wowuidev eddiedrizzt (n=chatzill@75-95-157-132.anc.clearwire-dns.net)`
`15:24.20`	`Cide`	`:/`
`15:24.21`	`krka`	`i get 2`
`15:24.23`	`krka`	`err, i get 12`
`15:24.25`	`krka`	`always 3 more`
`15:24.27`	`krka`	`weird!`
`15:24.37`	`Cide`	`let me just "import bugfree" into python`
`15:24.39`	`Cide`	`and see what I get`
`15:24.51`	`Legorol`	`Cide, original problem: how many solutions are there for x+y+z+u=19, for x,y,z,u in N (including 0),`
`15:24.54`	`krka`	`i think i have a bug! :)`
`15:25.03`	`Legorol`	`and counting solutions such as 19,0,0,0 and 0,19,0,0 as different solutions`
`15:25.23`	`Legorol`	`The original problem is easy, so we went for the harder problem:`
`15:25.38`	`Legorol`	`how many solutions are there if you count 19,0,0,0 and 0,19,0,0 as the same solution`
`15:25.38`	`krka`	`i get 9 with manual inspection :/`
`15:25.45`	`krka`	`i must have a bug`
`15:25.48`	`Legorol`	`then you definitely have a bug`
`15:25.49`	`Cide`	`that's fun`
`15:25.51`	`Legorol`	`or PEBKAC`
`15:26.27`	`cog\|work`	`Shirik: do you know how (or is it possible) to statically link to the CRT libs?`
`15:26.36`	`Cide`	`does it have to be optimized?`
`15:26.38`	`Legorol`	`We haven't got analytical result for the harder version, so we are coding it instead`
`15:26.51`	`Legorol`	`We have an approximate expression.`
`15:27.02`	`Drundia`	`we do?`
`15:27.06`	`Legorol`	`yes we do`
`15:27.14`	`Drundia`	`well, i don't :(`
`15:27.17`	`foxlit`	`hah, wowi`
`15:27.22`	`foxlit`	`"Attach Images (Up to 4)"`
`15:27.28`	`foxlit`	`"You may attach up to 5 images."`
`15:27.52`	`Legorol`	`If N is the sum, V is the number of variables, then approximate count is [(N+V-1) nCr N] / V!`
`15:28.22`	`Legorol`	`It's approximate because of the discreteness of integers`
`15:29.53`	`Legorol`	`For example, for N=4, V=2, formula gives: 2.5, the real answer is 3.`
`15:30.01`	`Drundia`	`368.958333 is bad approximation for 94`
`15:30.20`	`Legorol`	`similarly, for N=5, V=2, formula is 3, real answer is 3`
`15:30.50`	`eddiedrizzt`	`hay guys im looking for a ui bundal for a warlock(demon spec) and a pally(prot) thay have to be usible at lowlvls like in the teens and up thay are on the same acount but diferent servers`
`15:31.07`	`Legorol`	`Drundia: I get 64.2`
`15:31.29`	`Cide`	`did you divide by V! or V, Drundia?`
`15:31.42`	`Cide`	`>>> 368.958333/64.2`
`15:31.42`	`Cide`	`Cide: 5.7470145327103`
`15:31.45`	`Cide`	`newp`
`15:31.48`	`Drundia`	`right, i get that one too when i don't do mistakes....`
`15:32.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev eSOB (n=chatzill@mail.viatrack.com)`
`15:32.13`	`Legorol`	`The formula should always give a value lower than or equal to the real answer.`
`15:32.43`	`*** join/#wowuidev Fatalis (n=fatalisd@68-188-76-94.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)`
`15:33.11`	`Cide`	`nCr is... n!/(r!(n-r)!) isn't it`
`15:33.15`	`Legorol`	`yes`
`15:33.26`	`Cide`	`yeah, can't really simplify that much`
`15:33.43`	`Legorol`	`approx. count = (N+V-1)!/N!/(V!)^2 if you like`
`15:34.13`	`eddiedrizzt`	`hay guys im looking for a ui bundal for a warlock(demon spec) and a pally(prot) thay have to be usible at lowlvls like in the teens and up thay are on the same acount but diferent servers can anyone help`
`15:34.43`	`krka`	`found the bug and fixed it!`
`15:34.45`	`krka`	`i get 94 and 54 now`
`15:34.56`	`krka`	`so the dynamic programming works atleast`
`15:35.01`	`Cide`	`weak`
`15:35.04`	`Legorol`	`what was the bug?`
`15:35.12`	`Cide`	`I'm just gonna play mass effect then!`
`15:35.16`	`krka`	`i had a bad assumption`
`15:35.22`	`Legorol`	`eddiedrizzt: I think we saw your request the first time around, and I'm sure that if anyone currently here has a suggestion, they would mention it`
`15:35.26`	`krka`	`if used == nRemaining then return 1 end`
`15:35.40`	`krka`	`but that doesn't make much sense out of context :P`
`15:35.44`	`Legorol`	`What do they say about assumptions?`
`15:35.58`	`Legorol`	`no, it doesn't, you are right ;-)`
`15:36.00`	`krka`	`you need them to set up the base in your recursion formula`
`15:36.11`	`Legorol`	`makes sense`
`15:36.30`	`Legorol`	`it's still funny that it gave a constant offset for all N`
`15:36.53`	`krka`	`it actually didn't`
`15:36.59`	`krka`	`it was wrong by 1 or 2 for lower numbers`
`15:37.03`	`Legorol`	`aha`
`15:37.08`	`krka`	`i think the error propagated slowly`
`15:37.15`	`Legorol`	`Fibonacci!`
`15:37.26`	`krka`	`i didn't investigate it much :)`
`15:40.02`	`Legorol`	`This was fun, later folks`
`15:40.27`	`krka`	`indeed, time to gome`
`15:40.31`	`krka`	`*go home`
`15:40.35`	`foxlit`	`<random plug>Get some pie! http://www.go-hero.net/opie/ </random plug>`
`15:40.59`	`nevcairiel`	`OPie?`
`15:41.15`	`nevcairiel`	`you had better names`
`15:41.43`	`foxlit`	`None that I would consider better, sorry.`
`15:42.00`	`ckknight`	`ick`
`15:42.03`	`ckknight`	`OneRingLib`
`15:42.11`	`ckknight`	`I prefer LibOneRing`
`15:42.12`	`ckknight`	`:-P`
`15:42.16`	`ckknight`	`your choice, though`
`15:42.27`	`nevcairiel`	`its not a lib :P`
`15:42.38`	`foxlit`	`Indeed, it's mostly fake :)`
`15:42.46`	`ckknight`	`okay then`
`15:42.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev LongDong (n=raped@24-226-185-161.tr.cgocable.ca)`
`15:42.48`	`ckknight`	`why call it lib?`
`15:42.49`	`ckknight`	`blah`
`15:43.02`	`wereHamster`	`why ask so many questions?`
`15:43.02`	`foxlit`	`It provides functionality that it doesn't, itself, use.`
`15:43.13`	`foxlit`	`At the same time, it isn't very portable.`
`15:43.20`	`ckknight`	`:-P`
`15:43.23`	`ckknight`	`okay then`
`15:46.15`	`Legorol`	`wow foxlit, i'm impressed`
`15:46.17`	`Legorol`	`looks awesome`
`15:46.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev eSOB_ (n=chatzill@24.214.205.186)`
`15:46.42`	`Legorol`	`I'm not much into modding my UI in terms of actions (bars, buttons etc.), I only tend to use "information" addons, but I might actually try this one`
`15:55.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower)`
`15:55.24`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ`
`15:56.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev Fatalis (n=fatalisd@68-188-76-94.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)`
`16:04.27`	`foxlit`	`Legorol: thank you :)`
`16:05.46`	`*** part/#wowuidev eSOB_ (n=chatzill@24.214.205.186)`
`16:06.27`	`*** join/#wowuidev ncd\|Aileen (n=Dave@213.216.23.2)`
`16:06.47`	`Drundia`	`Legorol, i think we need to look for a nice recursive solution to our problem, because almost all combinatorics is defined recursively.`
`16:10.16`	`*** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@207.205.103-84.rev.gaoland.net)`
`16:10.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10)`
`16:23.59`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@3908ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk)`
`16:28.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev Zyuu (n=zyuu@h212n16.gothnet.ias.bredband.telia.com)`
`16:29.04`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Zyuu] by ChanServ`
`16:31.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev DARKGuy (n=DARKGuy@201.211.45.36)`
`16:31.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=Hjalte@0x5731955e.svgnxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)`
`16:35.35`	`erikd`	`fox: wow, i like it`
`16:35.43`	`erikd`	`and props for the boomkin too`
`16:35.45`	`erikd`	`:)`
`16:36.07`	`\|Jelly\|`	`I wasted a mana pot and a draenic wisdom pot testing my ring. kek ...will take some getting used to. :P`
`16:37.58`	`*** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-21-211-254.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`16:37.58`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ`
`16:43.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk)`
`16:43.57`	`foxlit`	`You could probably fix some issues by using macros and [combat] conditions to prevent accidental drinking :)`
`16:44.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev ncd\|Aileen (n=Dave@213.216.23.2)`
`16:45.06`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Oh, I'm not mad or anything. :P I really like the addon. I just wasn't expecting it. lol`
`16:45.08`	`nevcairiel`	`heh`
`16:47.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev ncd\|Aileen (n=Dave@213.216.23.2)`
`16:47.44`	`*** join/#wowuidev dabujo (i=xx@p4FDB2864.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`16:51.22`	`cog\|work`	`sounds like the fun i had testing BuyEmAll and BuyDropper...`
`16:52.30`	`Fisker-`	`cog\|work`
`16:52.32`	`Fisker-`	`lets dance`
`16:56.12`	`Fisker-`	`<\3 :(`
`16:57.59`	`erikd`	`fox: i assume that's your druid in the video?`
`17:00.00`	`cog\|work`	`final tally i presume... http://downloadcounter.sj.mozilla.org/`
`17:00.00`	`cog\|work`	`>7.7mil dls`
`17:00.23`	`Fisker-`	`lies`
`17:00.53`	`Fisker-`	`or atleast modified lies`
`17:00.55`	`erikd`	`i'm willing to bet they beat the record`
`17:01.30`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@209.90.184.174)`
`17:02.09`	`durcyn`	`someone in spain is looping a fetch, tsk tsk`
`17:02.42`	`Fisker-`	`lol`
`17:02.47`	`Fisker-`	`they're not even competing against a record`
`17:02.50`	`Fisker-`	`there is no record`
`17:02.52`	`Fisker-`	`how pathetic :D`
`17:03.04`	`erikd`	`oh, hah`
`17:03.24`	`erikd`	`with all the noise they made about setting a world record i kinda figured there was one to be broken`
`17:03.44`	`cog\|work`	`the dumb "smart" address bar is pissing me off`
`17:03.53`	`cog\|work`	`when i type i, i want ikariam.com to appear`
`17:03.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev SunTiger (n=MoonWolf@i209133.upc-i.chello.nl)`
`17:03.56`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v SunTiger] by ChanServ`
`17:03.57`	`krka`	`i think they generally set up some limit to beat anyway, to avoid trivial records`
`17:04.07`	`cog\|work`	`not some other random page with i in the title`
`17:04.26`	`krka`	`yeah, i sort of agree`
`17:04.31`	`krka`	`but you get used to the new one`
`17:05.31`	`krka`	`i have even started typing parts of titles instead`
`17:05.31`	`krka`	`it should be a setting though`
`17:05.31`	`durcyn`	`to disable awesomebar: about:config, browser.urlbar.matchBehavior = 0, browser.urlbar.maxRichResults = 0, restart`
`17:05.45`	`krka`	`yeah, but it should be a real setting in preferences`
`17:05.56`	`erikd`	`i'm happy with the address bar but i'll admit it was weird at first`
`17:08.34`	`Josh_Borke`	`cog\|work: which ikariam are you on?`
`17:09.06`	`cog\|work`	`Beta. I got banned from Epsilon & Delta 'cause i didn't know they'd throw a fit about my wife and i both playing from home`
`17:09.21`	`cog\|work`	`s/my wife and i/me and my wife/`
`17:09.30`	`Josh_Borke`	`ah, i see`
`17:10.00`	`cog\|work`	`now i connect to my work's VPN whenever i need to check up from home :P`
`17:10.11`	`Josh_Borke`	`lol`
`17:11.34`	`cladhaire`	`or you can just tell them`
`17:11.41`	`cladhaire`	`and you don't get banned`
`17:11.44`	`cladhaire`	`you just can't trade with each other`
`17:11.48`	`cog\|work`	`exactly`
`17:11.50`	`cog\|work`	`that's stupid`
`17:11.56`	`cladhaire`	`its the nature of their economy`
`17:12.12`	`cladhaire`	`they have to have limitations like that, sadly`
`17:12.39`	`cncfanatics`	`anyone can tell me what epic gems usualy go for ?`
`17:12.41`	`cncfanatics`	`(cut ones)`
`17:12.47`	`erikd`	`depends on what it is`
`17:12.48`	`Josh_Borke`	`depends on your server`
`17:13.12`	`erikd`	`on my server it usually goes for 25-50 more than an uncut`
`17:13.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev hiflyer (n=hiflyer@c-8670e255.033-45-73746f32.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`17:14.08`	`erikd`	`but you're more likely to sell an uncut, especially if you spam trade that you can cut the gem how they'd like if they buy it from you`
`17:20.07`	`Kaso`	`http://img.waffleimages.com/da162f5aadf176968951047b498f06f04fc7b145/CRE_Felhunter-067e8409_ful.png`
`17:20.10`	`Kaso`	`thats awesome ^`
`17:20.46`	`Josh_Borke`	`i hate it`
`17:24.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub)`
`17:25.15`	`cncfanatics`	`Kaso: "no linking from this host"`
`17:25.30`	`Kaso`	`damnit`
`17:27.05`	`Kaso`	`http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/536/da162f5aadf176968951047dn8.png`
`17:27.13`	`Kaso`	`from spore`
`17:28.05`	`erikd`	`you can evolve zerglings?`
`17:28.07`	`erikd`	`i'm sold`
`17:28.27`	`Josh_Borke`	`i almost forgot about spore`
`17:28.30`	`Josh_Borke`	`when is it releaseD?`
`17:28.33`	`Josh_Borke`	`that game is gonna be so awesome`
`17:28.48`	`Kaso`	`September 7, 2008`
`17:29.05`	`Kaso`	`the creature creator thing is out at the moment though, for you to play around with making creatures`
`17:29.07`	`cog\|work`	`until you have to reinstall`
`17:29.40`	`cog\|work`	`http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/17/1850222`
`17:29.48`	`Tain`	`The creature creator is addictively fun.`
`17:29.58`	`Dashkal`	`Thinking seriously of buying the box, then downloading the cracked version of that game...`
`17:30.35`	`Josh_Borke`	`they are seriously going to have a mobile version too? awesome`
`17:30.39`	`Kaso`	`yah the drm is retarded, ive bitched about it many a time`
`17:30.55`	`Kaso`	`the iphone version looks fun, but its not near the full game`
`17:31.54`	`Fisker-`	`your mother also looks fun :(`
`17:33.32`	`Tain`	`You should see the DRM on her.`
`17:36.20`	`Fisker-`	`remote desktop within remote desktop is sooo fun`
`17:39.37`	`ScytheBlade1`	`There's 8 million firefox downloads`
`17:40.42`	`*** join/#wowuidev Pizik (n=Blank@planeshift/gamemaster/Pizik)`
`17:41.19`	`Pizik`	`o/ all`
`17:41.35`	`Dashkal`	`Did they make the record?`
`17:41.45`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I have no idea what the record is`
`17:41.45`	`Fisker-`	`OMG kd3 ptrs`
`17:42.04`	`Fisker-`	`it's 0`
`17:42.05`	`Pizik`	`If you mean FF3 i dont think there was a previous record`
`17:42.08`	`Fisker-`	`Also`
`17:42.09`	`Fisker-`	`Fx3`
`17:42.12`	`Fisker-`	`not FF3`
`17:42.25`	`Pizik`	`Why Fx?`
`17:42.28`	`Dashkal`	`I'm totally loving FF3`
`17:42.34`	`Dashkal`	`FF3 is a wonderful browser ;)`
`17:42.44`	`Fisker-`	`Pizik because that's the official abbreviation`
`17:43.10`	`Pizik`	`Well, language evoloution is a good thing ;o)`
`17:43.16`	`ScytheBlade1`	`PTR download is still for 2.4.2 PTR`
`17:44.11`	`Pizik`	`Anywho, is this a Dev channel, or is it a general loiter channel?`
`17:44.32`	`ScytheBlade1`	`A lot of both.`
`17:45.20`	`Pizik`	`Ahhh, kk, im an on-off WoW player and user of many different addons (when my client hasnt borked)`
`17:45.37`	`Pizik`	`Is this Cosmos specific?`
`17:45.50`	`AnduinLothar`	`no`
`17:46.11`	`AnduinLothar`	`but you can ask cosmos questions`
`17:46.11`	`Pizik`	`Cool, followed a linky from the CosmosUI homepage`
`17:46.16`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Cosmos channel redirects here`
`17:47.02`	`Pizik`	`Well, I was on IRC and pointed a friend to the Cosmos site, then saw that an IRC channel was linked, so though id take a look and say ello`
`17:47.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:48.08`	`Seerah`	`was OneRing renamed to OPie and its home website changed?`
`17:48.11`	`Pizik`	`Are there actually any decent WoW channels (besides this one ;op) on freenode? ive only found ##wow so far`
`17:48.26`	`cog\|work`	`Seerah: i believe so`
`17:48.38`	`Fisker-`	`Pizik given that FF predates Fx i agree`
`17:48.39`	`Fisker-`	`owned`
`17:48.41`	`Seerah`	`pizik: there's wowwiki and wowace`
`17:48.57`	`Seerah`	`wowace is another developer channel`
`17:49.28`	`Seerah`	`thanks, cog\|work :) just making sure before I approve its upload to wowi :D (yes, the beta is released!)`
`17:49.36`	`Pizik`	`Aye, but both sound pretty much specific to a certain aspect of WoW, was more a generic channel I was interested in.`
`17:50.08`	`cog\|work`	`Pizik: the forums are so active and there's SO many players, i'm not sure there's ever really been much demand for a general wow irc channel`
`17:50.10`	`Seerah`	`wowwiki isn't generic?`
`17:50.51`	`Pizik`	`I would have expected it was aimed at WoWwiki editors, but I may well be wrong ;o)`
`17:50.51`	`AnduinLothar`	`irc isn't very effective with hundreds of people in the channel`
`17:50.53`	`cog\|work`	`but yeah, wowwiki is probably the most generic`
`17:51.11`	`cog\|work`	`since they deal with many aspects of wow beyond addon dev`
`17:51.20`	`Pizik`	`cog\|work: The WoW forums bite though ;o)`
`17:51.53`	`cog\|work`	`rawr`
`17:51.55`	`cog\|work`	`:P`
`17:51.59`	`Gryphen`	`ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle.`
`17:52.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@129.7.89.161)`
`17:52.21`	`Lunessa`	`.. STATION!`
`17:52.21`	`Fisker-`	`OMG Gryphen'S BACK`
`17:52.22`	`Fisker-`	`omg`
`17:52.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev Keias (i=Saiek@c-69-245-192-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`17:52.33`	`Fisker-`	`bah`
`17:52.34`	`Fisker-`	`yay`
`17:52.51`	`AnduinLothar`	`lolz, that script is ancient`
`17:52.52`	`Pizik`	`Well, I think Il start Idleing here anyway, I tend to learn a bit about stuff from doing so ;o)`
`17:53.01`	`Fisker-`	`omg`
`17:53.02`	`Gryphen`	`:)`
`17:53.21`	`Fisker-`	`this terminal server is so screwed i might as well connect to another computer to use my email account`
`17:53.22`	`Fisker-`	`;_;`
`17:54.02`	`Fisker-`	`If i try to attach a file outlook crashes :(`
`17:54.07`	`Fisker-`	`if i try to zip it, explorer crashes`
`17:54.15`	`Fisker-`	`if i try to move it, explorer crashes :(`
`17:54.29`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Less viruses imo`
`17:54.33`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Shirik: ping`
`17:54.47`	`Fisker-`	`moar liek butthurt`
`17:55.46`	`Tekkub`	`I just broke 10kg :)`
`17:55.56`	`Tekkub`	`guess I have to buy my priest his epic flying now`
`17:56.42`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [-R] by ChanServ`
`17:56.58`	`ScytheBlade1`	`-R ?`
`17:57.03`	`Cairenn`	`registered`
`17:57.06`	`Tekkub`	`-retards`
`17:57.06`	`ScytheBlade1`	`ah`
`17:57.19`	`Fisker-`	`i agree with Tekkub`
`17:57.23`	`ScytheBlade1`	`That's what I guessed, and I saw that my server channel had been flashing`
`17:57.24`	`Cairenn`	`the thing we put in place to deal with the ckk spammers`
`17:57.31`	`ScytheBlade1`	`And thought I was talking unidentified again =[`
`17:57.47`	`Tekkub`	`would it not have been simpler to just kickban ckk? :)`
`17:57.51`	`Cairenn`	`lol`
`17:57.55`	`Pizik`	`Ahhhh, Fisker-, seems we have a channel in common ;o)`
`17:58.04`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Tekkub: lol`
`17:59.48`	`Fisker-`	`:o?`
`18:00.25`	`Pizik`	`on quake.net`
`18:00.35`	`Pizik`	`*quakenet`
`18:01.07`	`Drundia`	`+R xor +retards = true`
`18:01.10`	`Fisker-`	`ah`
`18:01.11`	`Fisker-`	`you fail`
`18:01.43`	`cog\|work`	`Lunessa: u gief link to vista addon guide`
`18:01.58`	`Tekkub`	`vista?`
`18:02.13`	`cog\|work`	`Tekkub: for people who can't figure out how to deal with virtual store`
`18:02.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-68-62-4-140.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`18:02.26`	`cog\|work`	`and how it affects wow`
`18:02.27`	`Tekkub`	`virtual store?`
`18:02.31`	`Lunessa`	`cog\|work: you can haz aritcle. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6757867106&sid=1`
`18:02.34`	`Tekkub`	`uhm... splain?`
`18:02.44`	`Fisker-`	`CAN NOT HAS`
`18:03.07`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Tekkub: what happens when you write to program files as anything other than a non UAC blocked admin`
`18:03.38`	`Tekkub`	`or if you have retarded WAU disabled?`
`18:05.07`	`Lunessa`	`Do I need to add to this article? If anyone wants to point out something I overlooked...`
`18:05.38`	`Tekkub`	`if having WAU disabled disables this, that's the first thing you should note (without ADVOCATING turning WAU off`
`18:06.15`	`Lunessa`	`It's one of the options I suggest.`
`18:06.18`	`Tekkub`	`turning WAU off is the very first thing a lot of people do in vista... especially the types of people that get anal about performance and might be reading your thread`
`18:06.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kupu (n=Kupuka@190.244.159.52)`
`18:06.33`	`Lunessa`	`Actually it's not...`
`18:06.36`	`cog\|work`	`Tekkub: no, that's not who it's for`
`18:06.47`	`Tekkub`	`oh well hell if I know`
`18:06.50`	`cog\|work`	`it's for the random "zomg i can't find my addons folder"`
`18:06.54`	`cog\|work`	`so read it nub`
`18:06.54`	`cog\|work`	`:P`
`18:06.55`	`Tekkub`	`I just heard vista and "fix wow"`
`18:07.19`	`Tekkub`	`and then saw WAU and figured it probably was'nt my problem :P`
`18:07.23`	`Pizik`	`You really get people who cant find their addon/interface folder? ;oS`
`18:07.41`	`cog\|work`	`Pizik: read the thread... it's often not where you would expect`
`18:07.46`	`Tekkub`	`Pizik, my duo partner can't install addons`
`18:07.50`	`cog\|work`	`that's the whole point :P`
`18:07.53`	`Pizik`	`okie ;o)`
`18:08.03`	`Tekkub`	`I've explained 20 times, and he still unzips them into the wrong path`
`18:08.06`	`Dashkal`	`ahh vista. too bad I didn't know about that thread at the time. I took the brute-force solution of stuffing wow in my user folder..`
`18:08.10`	`Drundia`	`i don't like this new software writing to small c:\documents and settings instead of big d:\program files :(`
`18:08.14`	`Tekkub`	`Interface/addons/name/name/name.toc`
`18:08.30`	`Drundia`	`i hate all such new programs completely`
`18:08.31`	`ScytheBlade1`	`UI forums aren't bad`
`18:08.36`	`ScytheBlade1`	`At least, as long as I'm not trolling`
`18:08.54`	`Pizik`	`;op`
`18:09.08`	`cog\|work`	`Dashkal: that's a better solution than some imo... esp if you have a 2nd physical hard drive which will give you a performance boost`
`18:09.48`	`Tekkub`	`yea I should toss in a second drive for wow and maybe ubuntu`
`18:10.13`	`Dashkal`	`nah, just a laptop combined with a luser who didn't yet know how the virtual store worked. I just couldn't figure out why WAU kept getting permission errors even when I claimed ownership of c:\program files\wow`
`18:10.16`	`Tekkub`	`my 40GiB is nearly at it's limit, and all I got in here is wow really`
`18:10.28`	`erikd`	`argh, i wish the combat log would include player hp or something. i wouldn't have to do as much work`
`18:10.35`	`Tekkub`	`wow + vista + office == NO MOAR HDD`
`18:10.38`	`Pizik`	`Oh god, Vista is so pants ;oS I now think its even more nanny-fied than already did ;oS`
`18:11.33`	`Tekkub`	`"is so pants"?`
`18:11.47`	`Pizik`	`erm, crap`
`18:11.55`	`Tekkub`	`is that like, a nudist insult I don't know of?`
`18:12.02`	`Pizik`	`lol`
`18:12.06`	`cog\|work`	`in all fairness, WoW violates windows best practices by using its installation folder for user data`
`18:12.11`	`Tekkub`	`I need my space, you're being very pants`
`18:12.15`	`cog\|work`	`Vista just bites you in the ass about it now`
`18:12.21`	`ScytheBlade1`	`What cog said`
`18:12.42`	`Tekkub`	`"windows best practices" are bullshit when you're a cross-platform program`
`18:12.49`	`cncfanatics`	`agree there :p`
`18:12.53`	`Tekkub`	`plus I hate the registry :)`
`18:12.56`	`Pizik`	`Thank you Tekkub ;o)`
`18:12.58`	`cncfanatics`	`but well, it also holds true for linux`
`18:13.02`	`cncfanatics`	`and for mac too prolly`
`18:13.02`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`also osx.`
`18:13.02`	`Dashkal`	`That particular practice applies to mac as well`
`18:13.04`	`Tekkub`	`INI FILES FOR EVERYONE!`
`18:13.07`	`ScytheBlade1`	`"windows best practices" are also a lot better than "windows developer standard" when it comes to cross platform`
`18:13.30`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`"~/Library/Application Support" is the intended target for user-specific support files.`
`18:13.34`	`ScytheBlade1`	`One mandates storing user data in the user specific locations; the other doesn't know doesn't care and stores it in program files :P`
`18:13.37`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`of course..`
`18:13.42`	`Tekkub`	`well, okey yea config should be stored in user files`
`18:13.56`	`Tekkub`	`but most windows programs stuff it in the registry`
`18:14.02`	`cog\|work`	`It always strikes me as ironic when OSS freaks bitch about UAC when it's really a hell of a lot closer to linux's security model than XP was...`
`18:14.05`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Most windows programs are retarded.`
`18:14.10`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`wow violates osx best practices by not being a simple application bundle for the ENTIRE program, but i digress.`
`18:14.20`	`Tekkub`	`cog, the bitch isn't that they put it in...`
`18:14.23`	`cncfanatics`	`cog\|work: its WAY more intrusive then linux's model`
`18:14.30`	`cncfanatics`	`and its fucking enabled by defalt`
`18:14.35`	`Tekkub`	`it's that they made it so overparanoid it gets in the way of everyday shit`
`18:14.37`	`Lunessa`	`Actually, the installer for WoW should be smart enough to recommend installation somewhere other than Program Files.`
`18:14.41`	`Pizik`	`cog\|work: Unfortunatly I would have to agree with that, the whole home directory thing I guess`
`18:14.52`	`ScytheBlade1`	`cncfanatics: no, it isn't - it's identical, the only "intrusive" comes from them adding in some form of backwards compatability`
`18:14.53`	`durcyn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:14.55`	`Tekkub`	`I was unable to copy files from my network without WAU getting up in my face`
`18:14.56`	`Pizik`	`but atleast linux doesnt hide the Home directory by defaault`
`18:15.07`	`cncfanatics`	`ScytheBlade1: linux doesn't prompt me on each app I start`
`18:15.08`	`Dashkal`	`erm? it's more intrusive only because it gives an override. Linux just tells you to bleep off`
`18:15.19`	`cog\|work`	`Tekkub: depends on who's doing the bitching i guess ;)`
`18:15.36`	`ScytheBlade1`	`cncfanatics: more of the backwards compat asking for admin rights. your linux apps whine when they need sudo too.`
`18:15.45`	`ScytheBlade1`	`(and you don't give it to them)`
`18:15.54`	`cog\|work`	`and yeah... linux just fails. Vista gives you the option to "sudo" as such...`
`18:15.57`	`Tekkub`	`yea cog... basically linux's == protect the admin powers... WAU == protect the "not guest" powers`
`18:15.58`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Yup`
`18:16.12`	`Tekkub`	`Wait guest can't touch that file GIVE ME YOUR PASSWORD`
`18:16.12`	`Dashkal`	`cog\|work: check out recient versions of gnome or kde? same deal`
`18:16.18`	`*** join/#wowuidev Fatalis (n=fatalisd@68-188-76-94.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)`
`18:16.36`	`ScytheBlade1`	`it's only annoying because they gave non-compliant apps a way to work without dying and giving mystical errors to the standard user.`
`18:16.52`	`cog\|work`	`Dashkal: actually i haven't touched my ubuntu gui in years >< been doing everything via ssh. good to hear though :)`
`18:17.14`	`Tekkub`	`cog\|work, ssh + xming! :)`
`18:17.29`	`Josh_Borke`	`anything having to do with security on a machine is going to make things more difficult, it is all about tradeoffs`
`18:17.29`	`Dashkal`	`gnome even looks like UAC with the darkened background and such. Still asks for the password as opposed to Vista, but that's good or bad depending on your use case.`
`18:17.30`	`Tekkub`	`I don't see the "desktop" ever, but I at least get git-gui and such`
`18:17.53`	`Tekkub`	`Dashkal, you mean WAU even looks like gnome's GUI sudo`
`18:18.01`	`Tekkub`	`it was like that before vista :)`
`18:18.07`	`Lunessa`	`UAC is like the MC Hammer of Security...`
`18:18.08`	`Dashkal`	`Good to know. I saw Vista's first`
`18:18.23`	`Dashkal`	`But I was using KDE right until the monstrosity that was kde 4.0`
`18:18.33`	`Tekkub`	`what's it called, gksudo? either way it's been like that for quite a while`
`18:18.50`	`cncfanatics`	`I disabled that sudo prompt very long ago :p`
`18:18.55`	`cncfanatics`	`if I need something sudo'd I just go to a console`
`18:18.57`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Still using KDE 3.5.9 myself. I have KDE 4.0 installed, but it isn't used.`
`18:19.01`	`cncfanatics`	`all the rest that asks for admin rights can go fuck itself`
`18:19.04`	`*** join/#wowuidev Fatalis (i=fatalisd@68-188-76-94.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)`
`18:19.10`	`Fisker-`	`cncfanatics`
`18:19.14`	`Fisker-`	`can i have admin rights?`
`18:19.16`	`Dashkal`	`I like doing user admin in a gui. useradd sucks`
`18:19.21`	`Dashkal`	`or package management`
`18:19.24`	`Dashkal`	`apt-cache ftl`
`18:19.26`	`Lunessa`	`I /told/ you homeboy; Can't touch this!`
`18:19.44`	`Tekkub`	`the sudo prompt doesn't bother me, cause it would only bug me if I was mucking about in system config shit`
`18:20.11`	`Tekkub`	`WAU bugged me when I installed a fresh OS, then try to access my file server to get my files and program and it's up in my face`
`18:20.51`	`Tekkub`	`it was off within like 5 min of using Vista`
`18:21.14`	`Dashkal`	`I imagine the whole vista in your face all the time will lessen as more software is written by people who know what'll happen when they ask for that file`
`18:21.15`	`cog\|work`	`i've never had UAC bitch about accessing other network computers...`
`18:21.47`	`Dashkal`	`So much windows software was written with the assumption that the user is always root`
`18:21.51`	`cog\|work`	`sure it wasn't the firewall?`
`18:22.02`	`cog\|work`	`exactly`
`18:22.02`	`Tekkub`	`yes, firewall gets turned off too`
`18:22.49`	`Pizik`	`But windows is written assuming the user is retarded ;oS`
`18:22.57`	`Tekkub`	`I trust my network you see :)`
`18:23.18`	`Dashkal`	`Pizik: Sadly a correct assumption in so many cases :S`
`18:23.33`	`Tekkub`	`s/many/most/`
`18:23.57`	`Tekkub`	`you know it's true`
`18:24.02`	`Pizik`	`I guess so ;o(`
`18:24.26`	`Josh_Borke`	`you mean users are sometimes not retarded( referring to all users, not just windows)`
`18:24.38`	`Lunessa`	`Aww... alestane was actually nice to someone that I told to fuck off.`
`18:24.42`	`Dashkal`	`It has been known to happen!`
`18:24.59`	`Dashkal`	`Or so I heard... once, and he was drunk at the time...`
`18:25.04`	`Cairenn`	`but rarely`
`18:25.04`	`Tekkub`	`Josh_Borke, yea the ones that can manage to get linux to install`
`18:25.21`	`Tekkub`	`that takes at least half a brain to pull off`
`18:25.37`	`Josh_Borke`	`i'll be the first to admit i've done stupid, retarded shit and continue to do it all the time`
`18:25.38`	`Dashkal`	`Eh, not anymore. Ubuntu's installer is simpler than winblows`
`18:25.56`	`Tekkub`	`simpler yes, until you get into the OS`
`18:26.01`	`Tekkub`	`then it's all downhill`
`18:26.20`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Simpler is great, until your bootloader breaks due to you thinking you had RAID when in reality it's just a windows driver doing it all in CPU`
`18:26.24`	`Tekkub`	`like, say, trying to get a screen res over 800x600 on a lot of hardware? xorg.conf!`
`18:26.34`	`ScytheBlade1`	`And you're dumped into a 80x24 text terminal with cryptic error messages`
`18:26.37`	`Dashkal`	`I haven't had that in a long awhile, actually`
`18:26.46`	`Dashkal`	`ubuntu works for nvidia, ati, and intel pretty quickly`
`18:26.53`	`Tekkub`	`you're doomed if you have two monitors`
`18:27.12`	`Pizik`	`Bring on the slackware users ;o)`
`18:27.17`	`Dashkal`	`no argument there`
`18:27.17`	`cog\|work`	`i've never gotten my boot loader to install correctly from the GUI. I always had to manually rearrange the drives so they'd match my bios settings`
`18:27.37`	`Tekkub`	`four of the five boxes we've tried ubu on here have given us only 800x600`
`18:27.46`	`Dashkal`	`ouch`
`18:28.05`	`Tekkub`	`so yea, it is nice when it works, but I don't have high confidence in it working`
`18:28.05`	`ScytheBlade1`	`cog\|work: yup. the installer is great, if you have a single hard drive and no need to keep what you already have. anything else is... sketchy as best`
`18:28.13`	`Josh_Borke`	`did you try the graphican configurator?`
`18:28.21`	`Tekkub`	`seems to work better with newer cards`
`18:29.01`	`Dashkal`	`Well, I've never had issues installing either into a blank or free space on a drive. Resizing an existing windows partition is an adventure I avoid at all costs.... literally, bought a new HD to avoid it`
`18:29.19`	`Lunessa`	`Bah, I installed Linux for the first time in '95... and it took all goddamned day and I had to compile everything first. I decided to wait again until 2001. Still a pain in the ass, but much better. Note that I'm /still/ not running Linux on any of my machines.`
`18:29.23`	`Josh_Borke`	`it seems to me that the focus for linux has been on the server market (and will continue to be) despite claims that desktop is most important`
`18:29.25`	`Tekkub`	`yea resizing a windows partition is doom no matter how you do it`
`18:29.33`	`cncfanatics`	`<3 debian installer`
`18:29.34`	`Dashkal`	`my grub is actually my BIOS's which drive do you want to boot from menu (I can press esc at boot)`
`18:29.40`	`Josh_Borke`	`Lunessa: having done the same thing, it is MUCH easier now`
`18:29.45`	`Tekkub`	`Josh_Borke, the problem with desktop is that it lacks consistancy`
`18:29.58`	`Tekkub`	`people like windows cause everywhere ctrl-c is copy`
`18:30.01`	`Josh_Borke`	`Lunessa: you can even install ubuntu to a windows partition as a file if you don't want to switch to it completely`
`18:30.05`	`Lunessa`	`Yeah, it's not bad now. Ubuntu and other distros have some pretty nice packages.`
`18:30.06`	`Tekkub`	`but try pico/nano`
`18:30.18`	`Josh_Borke`	`Tekkub: why the f uck are you using pico or nano?`
`18:30.23`	`Josh_Borke`	`Tekkub: you have to go out of your way to do that`
`18:30.29`	`Dashkal`	`Linux on the desktop won't happen until the people who don't actually need a desktop (think the market for smart-phones and ipods and ee-pcs) get rid of them`
`18:30.38`	`Tekkub`	`and ubu, by default, doesn't know how to handle MP3s because they're not freeware to decode`
`18:30.46`	`Lunessa`	`I just haven't felt like stripping a machine. I might make my old XP Box a linux machine soonish.`
`18:30.59`	`Tekkub`	`Josh_Borke, it was just the first example of inconsistancy I could think of`
`18:31.06`	`Dashkal`	`Tekkub: one download of a couple restricted packages (and the media player will tell you exactly what to do) and that's fixed`
`18:31.11`	`Josh_Borke`	`Lunessa: like i'm saying, you don't need to strip anything, just set aside 10GB of free space on one machine to try wubi`
`18:31.26`	`Josh_Borke`	`overall the desktop experience is improving`
`18:31.30`	`Josh_Borke`	`but it still has a long way to go`
`18:31.34`	`Tekkub`	`Dashkal, true, but with desktop "works out of the box" is important`
`18:31.51`	`Dashkal`	`There's no way to avoid that one. Unless you can dethrone the copyright cartel.`
`18:31.54`	`Tekkub`	`"Oh you can't play your music without these 5 steps first" is bad`
`18:32.09`	`Lunessa`	`Works out of the box is key.`
`18:32.15`	`Tekkub`	`yea, I know, just saying it's another mark against the linux desktop`
`18:32.49`	`*** part/#wowuidev Chamuyo (n=Kupuka@190.244.159.52)`
`18:32.50`	`Lunessa`	`Linux has a long way to go before it's non-hobbyist/non-IT pro material, but it's pretty rocking once it's all working.`
`18:32.54`	`Tekkub`	`but when you consider how much linux is "tinker to get it to work" it's almost like a good tutorial on how to use linux`
`18:33.02`	`Tekkub`	`which is kinda a bad thing in it's own right :)`
`18:33.07`	`Dashkal`	`Since when is windows not tinker to get working?`
`18:33.16`	`Dashkal`	`Drivers _suck_`
`18:33.26`	`Josh_Borke`	`Lunessa: you make a great point`
`18:33.30`	`Drundia`	`oh well, if windows used user folders back from the very start, and better if even dos used, we could like that UAC, but this way we can't because for years windows partition was made as small as possible`
`18:33.40`	`Tekkub`	`drivers on windows work fine for me till you start fucking with performance`
`18:33.45`	`Josh_Borke`	`there was a slashdot article a few months ago about someone getting their GF to try out ubuntu and it gives great tips on ways to make it better`
`18:33.55`	`Tekkub`	`hell vista even gets me driver updates, XP didn't do that`
`18:34.07`	`cog\|work`	`eew`
`18:34.17`	`Dashkal`	`I've found myself very spoiled what with having things like my onboard network actually working out of the box :p`
`18:34.37`	`cog\|work`	`windows driver updates usually either blue screen me or completely fux00r the gfx so it ends up 640x480x16 (colors not bits)`
`18:34.42`	`Tekkub`	`heh, most onboard networks didn't work out of box in wondows for me`
`18:34.50`	`Tekkub`	`had to use the disk that came with the mobo`
`18:35.07`	`durcyn`	`yeah, i have to keep a usb stick with network drivers on it when i do xp installs`
`18:35.09`	`Dashkal`	`same. My favorite was my most recient wipe. I used my digital camera's sd card to copy over the nforce installer`
`18:35.11`	`Lunessa`	`cog\|work: Vist 64 is shit.`
`18:35.33`	`Tekkub`	`Dashkal, heh yea my NDS's card has become my thumb drive`
`18:35.49`	`Tekkub`	`hubby took the "real" 1GB drive.. now I have a 2GB drive WITH GAMES!`
`18:35.53`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Lunessa: s/Vist 64/Retarded people who write drivers for what they think is 64-bit OSs/`
`18:36.20`	`Tekkub`	`Vista 64 is shit, XP 64 was shit... but it's not the OS's fault it's the drivers...`
`18:36.30`	`Tekkub`	`yea, I agree drivers blow on 64bit`
`18:36.37`	`Fisker-`	`your mothers :(`
`18:36.51`	`Lunessa`	`Which really irritates me. I want 64 bit to rock.`
`18:37.07`	`Tekkub`	`yea but there's no real compelling need for 64bit either`
`18:37.10`	`Dashkal`	`I was sad. I had to finally give up the ghost and "downgrade" back to 32 bit for both winXP and ubuntu`
`18:37.31`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I run native 64-bit linux on my desktop and my laptop (flash can suck it)`
`18:37.34`	`ScytheBlade1`	`No problems here`
`18:37.54`	`Thunder_Child`	`i have 64-bit vista...no issues`
`18:38.16`	`durcyn`	`eh, PAE solves the immediate memory 'problem', if you can call it that`
`18:38.21`	`cog\|work`	`it's not just vista 64 for me`
`18:38.26`	`durcyn`	`if only certain consumer operating systems supported PAE worth a wet slap`
`18:38.29`	`Dashkal`	`I won't give up my youtube addiction. Flash is mandatory`
`18:38.34`	`cog\|work`	`windows update's driver updates do the same things to me on XP`
`18:38.38`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Flash can suck it. ;D`
`18:38.41`	`Tekkub`	`PAE?`
`18:38.45`	`Tekkub`	`Paeote?`
`18:38.48`	`alestane`	`Lunessa: I suppose, although I was aiming for the "tough love" zone.`
`18:38.52`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Tekkub: Physical Address Extension`
`18:38.55`	`durcyn`	`physical address extensions, i.e., addressing 16gb instead of 3`
`18:38.59`	`cog\|work`	`Physical Address Extensi...damn you ScytheBlade1`
`18:39.03`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Tekkub: accessing >4GB natively on x32`
`18:39.05`	`ScytheBlade1`	`cog\|work: <3`
`18:39.08`	`cog\|work`	`and i've never been able to get it to work`
`18:39.11`	`Tekkub`	`is that like my mail forwarding with the postoffice?`
`18:39.18`	`Thunder_Child`	`i never got PAE to work either`
`18:39.22`	`ScytheBlade1`	`No, it's more or less RAM multiplexing`
`18:39.23`	`cog\|work`	`4-5 different chipsets from different manufacturers, and windows always reports <4gb`
`18:39.32`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Each app can access 4GB of memory, but no more`
`18:39.46`	`Tekkub`	`I'm happy as a clam with my 2GiB RAM`
`18:39.53`	`ScytheBlade1`	`On the flip side, you can have multiple apps accessing 4GB each, therefor "using" more than 4GB in a stock x32 CPU`
`18:40.04`	`cog\|work`	`it's similar to the old memory manager stuff from dos days`
`18:40.07`	`Tekkub`	`I've never said "man I need more ram" like I did with <= 1GiB`
`18:40.19`	`ScytheBlade1`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:40.19`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Mem: 347 320 27 0 15 47`
`18:40.22`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Err, right`
`18:40.22`	`Dashkal`	`Just give it time, the compelling need will be there in a few years`
`18:40.24`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Server, not desktop`
`18:40.31`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: I went from sketching out the code to scrapping the project.`
`18:40.33`	`Dashkal`	`mmm, 320K of ram is all we'll need :p`
`18:40.39`	`Drundia`	`i think individual app can access above 4 GB too, it just needs some usage of segments`
`18:40.46`	`Dashkal`	`(or was that 640?)`
`18:41.03`	`Drundia`	`base memory is 640k`
`18:41.06`	`Fisker-`	`it was neither`
`18:41.12`	`Dashkal`	`640, that's the one`
`18:41.18`	`Dashkal`	`and all the tricks they used to let you past it`
`18:41.26`	`Drundia`	`well`
`18:41.33`	`Drundia`	`inside one segment you could only have 64k`
`18:41.34`	`Dashkal`	`funny how PAE sounds so familiar...`
`18:41.42`	`alestane`	`I wouldn't want to help him out either after that many bumps. At least he spaced them out for the first few days.`
`18:41.53`	`ScytheBlade1`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension`
`18:42.16`	`Lunessa`	`Once he decided to tell me I was useless, I decided never to help him for any reason.`
`18:42.17`	`cog\|work`	`what thread?`
`18:42.30`	`Dashkal`	`If anything will drive us there first it'll be the big databases and animation apps that _need_ it first.`
`18:42.47`	`cog\|work`	`nm`
`18:42.48`	`Drundia`	`omg, Lunessa, who dared?`
`18:43.00`	`Sixen`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Soon`
`18:43.12`	`Lunessa`	`Papasmrf.. mr.-bump-it 'till I get what I want.`
`18:43.58`	`Lunessa`	`It probably doesn't help that I'm in a shitty mood. A/C on my truck blew out last night and I had to drive to work (1 hour drive!) in 97f heat.`
`18:44.04`	`alestane`	`Yeah, I thought he was going overboard. Then again, I once tried to explain to someone why they should be posting in the suggestions forum and got a "I see no reason to stop bumping until someone smart decides to respond."`
`18:44.05`	`cog\|work`	`:\|`
`18:44.09`	`Sixen`	`Awww, i'm sorry Lunessa, :(.`
`18:44.13`	`Dashkal`	`ooo, not fun, Lunessa`
`18:44.24`	`Sixen`	`Hehe, I remember when Cog and I got into a little bout, ^_^.`
`18:44.26`	`Sixen`	`<33.`
`18:44.27`	`Lunessa`	`Thanks folks. :\|`
`18:44.29`	`Tekkub`	`heat sucks`
`18:44.35`	`Tekkub`	`I still wanna move north`
`18:44.43`	`Dashkal`	`Vancouver is nice :p`
`18:44.48`	`cog\|work`	`:)`
`18:44.50`	`Sixen`	`Of course, I didn't say anything like that, ;/.`
`18:44.53`	`Tekkub`	`but after the stupid move to AR and back, no moving for a long ass time`
`18:45.37`	`alestane`	`I was appreciative at the time of the number of people who jumped in and said "You got a response from a smart person, what else did you want?"`
`18:45.47`	`Lunessa`	`Meh, I just moved from Houston, Tx to Galveston, Tx - if I had a job lined up elsewhere, I'd move to someplace else.`
`18:46.19`	`durcyn`	`at least you got out of houston =P`
`18:46.42`	`cog\|work`	`(responding to that thread)`
`18:47.18`	`Lunessa`	`cog\|work: Good answer too.`
`18:48.19`	`ScytheBlade1`	`lol hahah @ that guys bumps`
`18:48.30`	`Lunessa`	`durcyn: I'm beginning to think the move was a mistake. The difference in commuting cost has gone up dramatically.`
`18:49.46`	`Dashkal`	`wow, twit much?`
`18:50.29`	`cog\|work`	`woops... didn't see that alestane already linked it...`
`18:50.43`	`cog\|work`	`oh well... works better in context with the quote imo ;)`
`18:50.55`	`Lunessa`	`Hehe... indeed.`
`18:51.36`	`Fisker-`	`Dispel effects will no longer attempt to remove effects that have 100% dispel resistance.`
`18:51.39`	`Fisker-`	`SET SAIL FOR FAIL`
`18:51.48`	`Fisker-`	`Parry Rating, Defense Rating, and Block Rating: Low-level players will now convert these ratings into their corresponding defensive stats at the same rate as level 34 players.`
`18:51.49`	`Fisker-`	`lol`
`18:51.54`	`Fisker-`	`only took them 1Â½ year to fix it`
`18:52.16`	`cog\|work`	`Soon`
`18:52.18`	`cog\|work`	`imo :P`
`18:52.32`	`Fisker-`	`Equipping an item will now cancel any spell cast currently in progress. ;_;`
`18:52.36`	`Fisker-`	`bai manasurge`
`18:52.42`	`ScytheBlade1`	`=[`
`18:52.53`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Bye extra mana from evocate!`
`18:53.03`	`Fisker-`	`Summon Warhorse is now available at level 30.`
`18:53.04`	`Fisker-`	`WUT`
`18:53.08`	`Fisker-`	`i liek where this thread is going`
`18:53.11`	`durcyn`	`Fisker-: link`
`18:53.21`	`Fisker-`	`http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=8979.0`
`18:54.07`	`ScytheBlade1`	`...... what?`
`18:54.42`	`cog\|work`	`all mounts...`
`18:55.01`	`Fisker-`	`i no see all mounts`
`18:55.06`	`Fisker-`	`doh`
`18:55.09`	`Fisker-`	`i do see all mounts`
`18:55.12`	`cog\|work`	`~fail Fisker-`
`18:55.13`	`purl`	`Fisker-, you Fail!`
`18:55.13`	`Fisker-`	`<-fail`
`18:55.14`	`Sixen`	`Level 30 mounts now.`
`18:55.15`	`Sixen`	`Roflz.`
`18:55.18`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Haris Pilton has launched a new line of bags and jewelry. Check her out in the World?s End Tavern!`
`18:55.25`	`ScytheBlade1`	`24 slot bags (iirc) for 2400g`
`18:55.26`	`cog\|work`	`<3 lower alcohol cooldown`
`18:56.03`	`Fisker-`	`hmm`
`18:56.05`	`Fisker-`	`it has the timer in`
`18:56.15`	`cncfanatics`	`100g / slot ?`
`18:56.15`	`Fisker-`	`may have the new buff stuff then`
`18:56.18`	`cncfanatics`	`thats a bit expensive :s`
`18:56.23`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Curse of Elements: This spell now applies to Arcane and Shadow damage, as well as Frost and Fire.`
`18:56.26`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Curse of Elements: This spell now applies to Arcane and Shadow damage, as well as Frost and Fire.`
`18:56.29`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Curse of Elements: This spell now applies to Arcane and Shadow damage, as well as Frost and Fire.`
`18:56.32`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Curse of Elements: This spell now applies to Arcane and Shadow damage, as well as Frost and Fire.`
`18:56.35`	`ScytheBlade1`	`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!`
`18:56.36`	`cncfanatics`	`oooh`
`18:56.36`	`Fisker-`	`:O`
`18:56.38`	`Fisker-`	`WTF`
`18:56.42`	`cncfanatics`	`they're making preparative changes for wotlk ?`
`18:56.57`	`Fisker-`	`the timer is in wotlk`
`18:57.08`	`Fisker-`	`also an event for refreshed buffs now`
`18:57.15`	`Fisker-`	`if they added it in 2.4.3`
`18:58.09`	`ScytheBlade1`	`THANK YOU`
`18:58.56`	`Josh_Borke`	`Time Management features have been implemented! These features include an alarm clock, stopwatch, and viewing your computerâs local time.`
`18:58.57`	`Lunessa`	`# Removed the cooldown from regular Mooncloth.`
`18:58.59`	`*** join/#wowuidev devXero (n=devZero@216-129-239-55.vnet-inc.com)`
`18:58.59`	`Josh_Borke`	`neat`
`18:59.02`	`devXero`	`hi hi`
`18:59.30`	`Lunessa`	`Mycah of Sporeggar has discovered how to create 28 slot herb bags.`
`19:00.34`	`cog\|work`	`You can no longer click the minimap to cast ground targeted spells.`
`19:00.37`	`alestane`	`If mounts arrive at level 30, what about travel form?`
`19:00.42`	`cog\|work`	`i wonder how many people even knew you could...`
`19:00.43`	`ScytheBlade1`	`cog\|work: isn't that change as of 2.4.2?`
`19:01.07`	`cog\|work`	`ScytheBlade1: got it off the same page...`
`19:01.11`	`Drundia`	`Cheat Death: This talent has been rebalanced significantly. Killing blows are no longer 100% absorbed. If the Rogue is below 10% health, the killing blow is still completely absorbed; if the Rogue is over 10% health, enough damage will be absorbed to reduce the Rogueâs health down to 10%. For the following 3 seconds, damage is not always reduced by 90%; it is now reduced by a maximum of 90%, depending on how much resilience the Rogue has. The damage`
`19:01.27`	`devXero`	`I'm working with the unit flags, and was wondering if there is a way to create one hex, for example 0xD0647 (mine, party, raid, hostile, npc, object, target, maintank, mainassist) that would cover all the possibilites, rather than having to break it up...`
`19:01.38`	`Sixen`	`No`
`19:01.43`	`Sixen`	`Trust me, that wasn't in 2.4.2 :(`
`19:02.07`	`Lunessa`	`Added the following macro commands: /targetenemyplayer, /targetfriendplayer.`
`19:02.23`	`Lunessa`	`# Added key bindings for tab targeting players.`
`19:02.27`	`alestane`	`That'll reduce traffic on the macro forum.`
`19:02.41`	`erikd`	`# The Stun component to the Sunblade Mage Guard Glaive Throw has been removed and the Bounce range reduced.`
`19:02.41`	`Lunessa`	`# Targeting using /target will prefer live targets over dead ones.`
`19:02.44`	`erikd`	`woohoo!`
`19:02.48`	`cog\|work`	`alestane: or at least get the traffic through more quickly`
`19:03.11`	`ckknight`	`Lunessa: 28 slot?`
`19:03.14`	`ScytheBlade1`	`cog\|work: er? I think they just added it to the 2.4.3 patchnotes, but actually threw it into 2.4.2`
`19:03.17`	`ScytheBlade1`	`cog\|work: see: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6440985857&postId=64402669020&sid=1#1`
`19:03.32`	`alestane`	`Was having a pet considered an unfair advantage in BGs or something?`
`19:03.40`	`Lunessa`	`ckknight: Until that patch goes in, the largest is 24 slot from Cenarian Circle in Silithus.`
`19:03.56`	`ckknight`	`hrm, okay`
`19:04.27`	`Sixen`	`Oh hm`
`19:04.29`	`Sixen`	`I didn't think so ;/`
`19:07.41`	`Anaral`	`I love that 28 slot addition. Especially since I'm exalted with Spore. :D`
`19:07.44`	`alestane`	`Any idea what the reasoning was behind level 30 mounts?`
`19:07.53`	`Sixen`	`Not sure`
`19:07.55`	`Sixen`	`It's pretty dumb`
`19:08.00`	`Sixen`	`I had to hit 40 first`
`19:08.01`	`Sixen`	`:(`
`19:08.12`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Not sure either, but I like the change. I've got a level 33 alt that I'm leveling with about 39 gold.`
`19:08.15`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Perfect change for me.`
`19:08.31`	`durcyn`	`because walking around for 40 levels was dumb.`
`19:08.33`	`Anaral`	`Do you remember lvling 30 to 40? There is a lot of traveling involved even with STV and Dustwallow Marsh.`
`19:08.48`	`Dashkal`	`Desolace shudder`
`19:08.59`	`alestane`	`Well, my 30-something is a druid, so I wasn't noticing.`
`19:09.09`	`Anaral`	`Heh`
`19:09.14`	`Lunessa`	`I bet it was because Druids, Hunters and Shaman all got +movement speed abilities abouyt then.`
`19:09.17`	`cog\|work`	`i've got a 35 priest`
`19:09.22`	`cog\|work`	`running around dustwallow...`
`19:09.26`	`cog\|work`	`this is pure secks imo`
`19:09.40`	`Lunessa`	`You want a towel?`
`19:09.48`	`Anaral`	`But will they increase travel form to 60% or just give it to druids sooner?`
`19:09.56`	`cog\|work`	`not one of yours...`
`19:09.57`	`ckknight`	`wtf, lvl 30 mounts?`
`19:10.10`	`Dashkal`	`why mess with travel form? Mounts don't obsolete it`
`19:10.17`	`Dashkal`	`It's IC and works in combat`
`19:10.19`	`Drundia`	`travel form is still instant, usable in combat, and much cheaper to learn`
`19:10.21`	`Lunessa`	`But I soak the corners in anti-depressants...!`
`19:10.28`	`alestane`	`I suppose instant cast in combat and training money only are still significant advantages for Travel Form.`
`19:10.40`	`Dashkal`	`I use it at 70 and I have swift flight form.`
`19:10.44`	`Dashkal`	`and I don't mean the arena`
`19:11.15`	`cog\|work`	`u cnat ful meh`
`19:11.20`	`ScytheBlade1`	`lol @ "..... stuff ....."`
`19:11.46`	`Anaral`	`Woo hoo!`
`19:11.49`	`Anaral`	`"Clockwork Robot Bots fight amongst themselves again...without attacking people in the arena. Well... theyll blow up other Bots in the arena, but you know what we mean."`
`19:12.06`	`alestane`	`I remember that reference...it's RatEotU or something.`
`19:12.32`	`Lunessa`	`cog\|work: lol. Busted!`
`19:13.08`	`ckknight`	`hey, when's 2.4.3 supposed to release?`
`19:13.15`	`Drundia`	`i remember dustwallow back when there was only 1 flight path in barrens instead of current like 25`
`19:13.21`	`ScytheBlade1`	`ckknight: it's not even up on the PTR yet`
`19:13.24`	`alestane`	`Patch notes just went up, so probably a month or so.`
`19:13.31`	`Drundia`	`i heard that back in the beta it didn't have flight path inside it at all`
`19:13.39`	`Drundia`	`(i mean dustwallow)`
`19:13.40`	`alestane`	`The client's available now.`
`19:14.26`	`ScytheBlade1`	`It sure is`
`19:14.30`	`ScytheBlade1`	`11.8MB patch`
`19:17.51`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Realms are not up though`
`19:17.53`	`Anaral`	`I really wish the WoW forums actually showed the date of last posts.`
`19:18.36`	`cncfanatics`	`doesn't everyone ?`
`19:19.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev Unregistered (n=Unregist@pool-71-170-118-183.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)`
`19:19.56`	`alestane`	`"Banker Meeda, in Area 52 is now in the...well...the bank, along with a guild vault and guards. The other three Area 52 bankers are still located in the auction-house-turned-bank."`
`19:20.32`	`Pizik_afk`	`wow, I thought that was just me Anaral, rediculous they dont have that`
`19:22.09`	`Anaral`	`Just don't get why they don't.`
`19:22.38`	`Drundia`	`blizzard forums used to show date of last post some long long long time ago`
`19:23.55`	`erikd`	`cog: you play on garona?`
`19:25.16`	`cog\|work`	`my main's on garona, yes... I haven't been actively playing much at all for months though :(`
`19:25.28`	`cog\|work`	`too much other stuff going on in my life atm`
`19:25.45`	`erikd`	`ah, my first character was on garona and some of my irl friends still play there`
`19:26.04`	`erikd`	`blackspyder/sopidre, gaiaserra and some others`
`19:26.09`	`erikd`	`i think they were in shadow tribe too`
`19:29.20`	`Lunessa`	`I'm mean - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7116595464&postId=71157209953&sid=1#33`
`19:29.57`	`cog\|work`	`Lunessa: have fun with this guy... http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7116639289&sid=1`
`19:33.46`	`Dashkal`	`persistently posting about wanting to exploit in the official forums... ban in 3.2.1.?`
`19:34.04`	`foxlit`	`Why isn't CancelPlayerBuff protected?`
`19:34.11`	`cog\|work`	`good q`
`19:35.49`	`Gngsk`	`SetClampedToScreen isn't either, is it?`
`19:36.18`	`Drundia`	`entire model of secure templates suck to protect more things`
`19:36.30`	`Drundia`	`it needs love`
`19:36.32`	`Drundia`	`a lot of love`
`19:36.43`	`Fisker-`	`Blizzard can not legally stop me from reading any program's memory on my computer, including world of warcraft. I realise that they may be onto something with stopping people from WRITING to memory, but READING memory would ban just about anyone who uses wow (Virus Scanners FTW) <-lol n00b`
`19:37.00`	`cog\|work`	`:)`
`19:37.07`	`cog\|work`	`Fisker-: translate my binary ;)`
`19:37.49`	`foxlit`	`The only real problem is showing/hiding things depending on whether you have x debuffs/buffs`
`19:38.04`	`Fisker-`	`ok cog\|work`
`19:38.06`	`Fisker-`	`you asked for it`
`19:38.21`	`Fisker-`	`well`
`19:38.23`	`Fisker-`	`actually not`
`19:39.02`	`Maldivia`	`wee, macro exploit fixed in 2.4.3 :)`
`19:39.49`	`foxlit`	`which particular one?`
`19:40.11`	`alestane`	`Probably the /if /end one.`
`19:40.36`	`Lunessa`	`Aww... I got a post all writtend and it got deleted.`
`19:40.44`	`Fisker-`	`wut u say alestane?`
`19:41.20`	`Maldivia`	`alestane, yep, that's the one I was thinking of`
`19:41.37`	`Fisker-`	`WUT IS IT?`
`19:41.41`	`Fisker-`	`i want to know sploitz`
`19:41.48`	`cog\|work`	`:(`
`19:41.50`	`Drundia`	`what /if /end one?`
`19:41.50`	`cog\|work`	`pastey!`
`19:42.03`	`Drundia`	`"ChatEdit_HandleChatType exploit."?`
`19:42.03`	`Fisker-`	`yarr`
`19:42.07`	`Fisker-`	`naein`
`19:42.08`	`Fisker-`	`nein`
`19:42.13`	`cog\|work`	`Drundia: someone posted an exploit that would selectively cast a spell based on mana, usability and range`
`19:42.19`	`cog\|work`	`no details here`
`19:43.02`	`foxlit`	`calling it an exploit is a bit... stretching`
`19:43.14`	`alestane`	`Fisker: There is presently an add-on loose in the wild that violates the current restrictions on macro decisions by allowing you to use special "/if" commands in macros. It is being dealt with for 2.4.3. No further information is available, thank you, have a nice day.`
`19:43.20`	`cog\|work`	`foxlit: not when that kind of decision making has been specifically forbidden`
`19:43.24`	`Drundia`	`gah, those stupid people that want to use exploits will soon get all of them fixed.....`
`19:43.33`	`Fisker-`	`;_; alestane`
`19:43.33`	`foxlit`	`cog, I don't agree with you, sorry.`
`19:43.34`	`cog\|work`	`and blatantly`
`19:43.47`	`foxlit`	`Even if this is explicitly forbidden by words, it's explicitly allowed by API`
`19:43.57`	`foxlit`	`So abuse yes, exploit, no`
`19:44.01`	`alestane`	`Especially when they show up an a BLIZZARD-OPERATED forum looking for help with their exploits.`
`19:44.22`	`Drundia`	`yes, it's very funny`
`19:44.51`	`cog\|work`	`i'm not sure i see a distinction... it's obviously not an intended result, and blizzard has set very specific terms on what they're allowed to do`
`19:44.54`	`alestane`	`foxlit: I believe an exploit is defined as using loopholes in the implementation to violate the design intention, so yes, I think it is.`
`19:44.56`	`Maldivia`	`foxlit: abusing a bug, to circumvent limits imposed by the game = exploit`
`19:45.19`	`erikd`	`as someone who knows just the basics of a macro i'd see what he posted and think it was legit`
`19:45.24`	`cog\|work`	`and they HAVE taken specific measures to prevent that kind of thing... this is a hole`
`19:45.38`	`foxlit`	`They took _no_ measures to prevent this particular hole`
`19:45.43`	`cog\|work`	`....`
`19:45.50`	`cog\|work`	`reductio ad absurdum imo`
`19:46.02`	`kd3`	`firing off an email with a 2.4.2-0.4.3 diff. anyone not on my list want a copy?`
`19:46.20`	`Lunessa`	`kd3: Yo!`
`19:46.30`	`Cairenn`	`?`
`19:46.32`	`Anaral`	`Sure`
`19:46.34`	`cog\|work`	`this particular _bug_ is a _hole_ in the system that prevents macros from making intelligent spell-making decisions`
`19:46.36`	`Maldivia`	`foxlit: so it being fixed for 2.4.3 is not taking any measures?`
`19:46.38`	`Anaral`	`kd3: Sure`
`19:46.47`	`kd3`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:46.48`	`foxlit`	`I don't see how it can be fixed for 2.4.3, nor any evidence that it is`
`19:47.00`	`Fisker-`	`does it matter then?`
`19:47.09`	`Fisker-`	`They've always said, anything possible by the ui is allowed`
`19:47.11`	`Drundia`	`kd3, me want too`
`19:47.14`	`Fisker-`	`if we think it's sploitz, we'll fix it`
`19:47.15`	`Lunessa`	`That looks to me like AutoMacro code.`
`19:47.29`	`cog\|work`	`Fisker-: of course they never used such absolute language as that`
`19:47.43`	`cog\|work`	`it's always their prerogative to call something an exploit or not`
`19:47.46`	`Maldivia`	`Fisker-: and the whisper-cast bug available until 2.2 was also not an exploit?`
`19:47.57`	`Fisker-`	`Nah i always feel it's the direct opposite`
`19:47.59`	`kd3`	`anaral, just /msg it to me. dcc chat doesn't work for me`
`19:48.04`	`Anaral`	`Grr, I hate being a newb.`
`19:48.05`	`Anaral`	`lol`
`19:48.05`	`Fisker-`	`The magelo incident being a perfect example`
`19:48.08`	`Anaral`	`Thanks`
`19:48.18`	`Fisker-`	`The ToS does support that it is not allowed`
`19:48.24`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Oh, that bug (re: macros)`
`19:48.26`	`Fisker-`	`but the official wow site have mentioned it`
`19:48.35`	`Fisker-`	`So is it against the ToS or not? And what about stuff like wowhead`
`19:49.02`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Fisker-: magelo most certaintly is. wowhead is by definition, but it uses a much less abusable way to collect its data.`
`19:49.15`	`Fisker-`	`perhaps`
`19:49.17`	`ScytheBlade1`	`It depends on what blizzard chooses to enforce, in the end`
`19:49.21`	`Dashkal`	`they do have the prerogative to make specific exceptions at their own discretion as well. But a one-line mention on the community page is not the same as a fansite recomendation`
`19:49.27`	`alestane`	`Yep, they're stripping it.`
`19:49.41`	`alestane`	`The new ChatFrame.lua drops the problematic securecall.`
`19:49.42`	`Fisker-`	`ScytheBlade1 yes and no`
`19:49.54`	`Fisker-`	`We already got laws like that with copyrights and trademarks`
`19:50.21`	`Fisker-`	`why shouldn't they exist for contracts/EULA's/ToS'?`
`19:50.21`	`kd3`	`last call for the 2.4.2-0.4.3 UI diff email`
`19:50.23`	`Fisker-`	`If it's obvious that Blizzard does not want to enforce a certain part of the EULA, then the whole EULA is invalid in my opinion`
`19:50.27`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Err? I don't follow`
`19:50.31`	`ScytheBlade1`	`kd3: I'm on there, right?`
`19:50.34`	`kd3`	`yah`
`19:50.39`	`*** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net)`
`19:50.40`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Good`
`19:50.43`	`ScytheBlade1`	`thanks btw`
`19:51.08`	`Cairenn`	`kd3: is Bela?`
`19:51.18`	`kd3`	`nope`
`19:51.26`	`Cairenn`	`might want to add him`
`19:51.32`	`alestane`	`I already downloaded and extracted it, but thanks.`
`19:51.33`	`Dashkal`	`Fisker-: you assume that blizzard is in any way required to extend the same terms to everybody.`
`19:51.35`	`Cairenn`	`beladona@wowinterface.com should work`
`19:51.40`	`Drundia`	`i'm more concerned about big deal of ui still being very easily tainted by addons which authors didn't intend to taint blizzard ui`
`19:51.53`	`Fisker-`	`What do you mean Dashkal?`
`19:52.24`	`Dashkal`	`Before I answer, has someone read through the TOS/EULA and checked for a severance clause?`
`19:52.42`	`alestane`	`I think the word you're looking for is severability, but not yet.`
`19:52.43`	`Dashkal`	`If something is invalid the document is modified to strip only that part blah blah blah`
`19:52.47`	`Maldivia`	`Cairenn: you just looked so perplexed :)`
`19:52.53`	`erikd`	`is wws against the tos then? since you're mining combat logs`
`19:52.54`	`Dashkal`	`alestane: yeah, wrong word, ty`
`19:53.03`	`Drundia`	`in particular doing "/click button" first time when editbox text is tainted taints the value in ClickButtonCache making that one button not /click'able`
`19:53.14`	`Dashkal`	`ok, I'll use a different argument`
`19:53.21`	`kd3`	`ckknight, ScytheBlade1, Duman, nevcairiel, Lunessa, Drundia, Gnarfoz, Ackis, Stanzilla: inboxes`
`19:53.26`	`alestane`	`Drundia: Also being fixed this patch from the look of it.`
`19:53.30`	`nevcairiel`	`kd3: thanks`
`19:53.33`	`Lunessa`	`kd3 thanks.`
`19:53.35`	`Stanzilla`	`thx`
`19:53.45`	`Dashkal`	`Fisker-: Under contract law a party is not required to enforce _all_ or _none_ of the terms of the contract or face the entire thing becomming invalid.`
`19:53.55`	`Fisker-`	`i know`
`19:54.10`	`Fisker-`	`I'm just saying i think it's irresponsible of blizzard to do it like that`
`19:54.13`	`Fisker-`	`in my opinion`
`19:54.17`	`Dashkal`	`Blizzard is excercising this descretion in regards to its tolerance of the mining addons for wowhead and co`
`19:54.23`	`Dashkal`	`perhaps yes, but this is their right`
`19:54.31`	`nevcairiel`	`SPELL_AURA_REFRESH looks nice o.O`
`19:54.42`	`nevcairiel`	`to nice to be true`
`19:54.43`	`alestane`	`WWS, afaik, uses data saved by the /combatlog command into a publicly readable text file.`
`19:55.15`	`Fisker-`	`old nevcairiel :(`
`19:55.19`	`Fisker-`	`been telling you that for ages now`
`19:55.36`	`Lunessa`	`WWS does exactly that.`
`19:55.42`	`Fisker-`	`but they included it in 2.4.3 as well now?`
`19:56.01`	`erikd`	`so as long as it's saved in the combat log by wow it's safe?`
`19:56.29`	`alestane`	`Data that you extract via the API is not regarded in quite the same light as data extracted by reading WoW's memory space from the outside or scanning the TCP/IP stream.`
`19:56.39`	`ScytheBlade1`	`^`
`19:57.04`	`Fisker-`	`data in the cache files would fall into the latter category as well though`
`19:57.08`	`Maldivia`	`nev: all the new spell_* looks nice (_aura_broken, _aura_broken_spell, _aura_refresh, _dispel, _stolen)`
`19:57.16`	`Fisker-`	`;_;`
`19:57.17`	`Dashkal`	`Still thinks the interpretation that reading the data out of your computer's memory counds as distribution is total BS. Natural person did not change...`
`19:57.23`	`nevcairiel`	`wasnt _dispel _stolen in before?`
`19:58.18`	`Maldivia`	`nev: spell_aura_dispelled and spell_aura_stolen has been removed`
`19:58.30`	`nevcairiel`	`ah`
`19:58.48`	`Maldivia`	`nev: aura_dispelled replaced with spell_dispel and spell_stoken`
`19:58.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@12.179.203.116)`
`19:59.06`	`Maldivia`	`_aura_stolen replaced with _aura_broken and _aura_broken_spell`
`19:59.11`	`Anaral`	`Which Eclipse package do I want?`
`19:59.24`	`Maldivia`	`from a quick glance`
`19:59.36`	`erikd`	`anaral: what do you intend to do?`
`19:59.48`	`Maldivia`	`TargetNearestEnemyPlayer() !!`
`20:00.18`	`Anaral`	`I don't program much, just started to teach myself lua...`
`20:00.55`	`erikd`	`oh, that's out of my realm. i don't know anything about eclipse and lua integration :)`
`20:01.10`	`Dashkal`	`Anaral: just for lua? skip eclipse and nab notepad+=`
`20:01.13`	`Dashkal`	`++`
`20:01.28`	`erikd`	`eclipse classic is probably a safe bet, seems like it includes everything`
`20:01.53`	`Dashkal`	`If you already do java as well, then get the classic package and add luaeclipse on top of it`
`20:01.54`	`Anaral`	`Oh I have that. :D`
`20:02.06`	`Dashkal`	`but eclipse is total overkill for lua alone`
`20:02.12`	`erikd`	`has anyone tried that lua ide that allows debugging of any running lua instance?`
`20:02.13`	`Lunessa`	`Anaral: http://www.wowwiki.com/Eclipse_(IDE)`
`20:02.42`	`MentalPower`	`erikd: thats mostly pointless for WoW`
`20:03.05`	`erikd`	`ah`
`20:07.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev Hjalte_ (n=Hjalte@0x5731955e.svgnxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)`
`20:07.35`	`Maldivia`	`hmm, only one conserning change I've found so far`
`20:07.49`	`Anaral`	`What's that?`
`20:08.24`	`Maldivia`	`hpoing it's a typo...`
`20:09.24`	`Maldivia`	`in RaidWarning.xml, this "<OnUpdate>RaidNotice_OnUpdate(self, arg1);</OnUpdate>" was changed to "<OnUpdate>RaidNotice_OnUpdate(self, elapsed);</OnUpdate>"`
`20:10.09`	`alestane`	`That's just getting away from the global script arguments.`
`20:10.34`	`Maldivia`	`yeah, but are we supposed to guess the argument-names in the xml format?`
`20:10.40`	`alestane`	`arg1 and elapsed should have the same values in them at that point.`
`20:10.54`	`Maldivia`	`alestane: yeah, but if elapsed is defined, is ... defined?`
`20:11.03`	`MentalPower`	`Maldivia: theres a wowwiki post about it`
`20:11.08`	`alestane`	`Only in <OnEvent> AFAIK.`
`20:11.10`	`MentalPower`	`no ... is not defined inside XML`
`20:11.17`	`MentalPower`	`only for OnEvent`
`20:11.22`	`Maldivia`	`ok`
`20:11.44`	`Anaral`	`Line 580... -- Halloween gag gift (*wonders what they're going to do to our bags)`
`20:12.04`	`alestane`	`The 2.0 changes list on WoWWiki lists prototypes for the various scripts.`
`20:12.18`	`foxlit`	`hook every bag function and return nil!`
`20:12.42`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Anaral: it actually tells you what it is one line above that ;)`
`20:12.45`	`ScytheBlade1`	`if (size == 1) then`
`20:12.48`	`ScytheBlade1`	`We get a one slot bag.`
`20:12.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev \|Jelly\| (n=chatzill@75.142.184.127)`
`20:13.08`	`Anaral`	`Ah, was skimming. Blarg`
`20:13.09`	`\|Jelly\|`	`FIREFOX 3.0 ... ENGAGE!`
`20:13.17`	`foxlit`	`meh`
`20:13.22`	`foxlit`	`I run on Internetz 3.1 already`
`20:13.31`	`Anaral`	`Psh, that's yesterday's news. Today it's ptr patch 2.4.3`
`20:13.37`	`foxlit`	`your 3.0 does not impress me!`
`20:13.51`	`alestane`	`OnEvent is effectively protoyped as function (self, event, ...) {body} end but OnUpdate is just (self, elapsed).`
`20:14.08`	`Sixen`	`FF3 is ftw.`
`20:14.58`	`Maldivia`	`alestane: hmm, yeah - forgot about that, since I haven't used it myself (don't think I've made a single xml file since 2.0 :))`
`20:15.44`	`Fisker-`	`It's Fx`
`20:16.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev hiflyer (n=hiflyer@c-8670e255.033-45-73746f32.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`20:16.30`	`Lunessa`	`Hello sirs. I manufacture and sell internets.`
`20:16.45`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Lunessa: good day, I'd like to purchase three`
`20:16.57`	`Maldivia`	`FF3.... f**king fabulous ?`
`20:17.36`	`alestane`	`The full (or almost full) list of prototypes is here: http://www.wowwiki.com/2.0_consolidated_changes#Frame_Features`
`20:17.37`	`Lunessa`	`I can arrange delivery of three internets to you by the second Tuesday of next week for the paltry sum of $300 US. Cash or Money Order only.`
`20:18.07`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Hello Lunessa! Have you ever wanted to take a weekend off in the mountains? Spend some time on the beach with a loved one? Let me tell you about the wonderful world of timeshare!`
`20:18.31`	`Maldivia`	`Lunessa: what about Réseau ?`
`20:18.32`	`Lunessa`	`I live at the beach telemarketing n00b!`
`20:18.45`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Houston ~= Beach`
`20:18.55`	`Lunessa`	`Galveston beyotch.`
`20:19.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kirov (n=Kirov@204.155.78.243)`
`20:19.12`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Gulf of Mexico, at least the last time I was there, ~= Beach`
`20:19.38`	`Lunessa`	`Maldivia: er, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reseau_plate?`
`20:19.40`	`MentalPower`	`lol`
`20:19.58`	`Lunessa`	`\|Jelly\|: Until I can move to someplace nicer, it'll have to do.`
`20:20.09`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Lunessa: <3`
`20:20.27`	`Lunessa`	`~hug \|Jelly\|`
`20:20.28`	`purl`	`ACTION hugs \|Jelly\|`
`20:21.27`	`Maldivia`	`Lunessa: http://www.newfangled.com/the_first_concept_of_the_world_wide_web`
`20:22.42`	`Shirik`	`ScytheBlade1: pong`
`20:22.50`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Shirik: /hug`
`20:22.54`	`Fisker-`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:23.22`	`Maldivia`	`why /destroy when you can /part :)`
`20:24.37`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Shirik: see the PM`
`20:24.47`	`Lunessa`	`Maldivia: wicked cool. RÃ©seau + Babbage + Ada Lovelace = win`
`20:28.36`	`cog\|work`	`+time machine imo`
`20:28.55`	`cog\|work`	`could you imagine where we'd be if babbage had finished his machine at the time?`
`20:29.11`	`*** join/#wowuidev Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ip68-111-86-113.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`20:29.11`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Guillotine] by ChanServ`
`20:30.32`	`Lunessa`	`... Did you read "The Difference Engine" by Gibson?`
`20:30.34`	`alestane`	`http://www.amazon.com/Difference-Engine-Spectra-Special-Editions/dp/055329461X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213821024&sr=8-1`
`20:30.51`	`Maldivia`	`cog\|work: doing the same thing as right now... talking over IRC?`
`20:30.55`	`alestane`	`That's exactly what Gibson and Sterling tried to do.`
`20:31.08`	`cog\|work`	`Maldivia: most likely`
`20:31.16`	`\|Jelly\|`	`http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/ <<win`
`20:32.11`	`cog\|work`	`i don't read much on paper... i r teh slow reeder`
`20:32.40`	`cog\|work`	`:(`
`20:33.31`	`alestane`	`"I would love to know what sick bastard at Kellogs came up with this genius idea. I just spent the first three years of my sons life trying to get him not to eat blocks, and now you're telling him they taste like fucking strawberries. Thanks a lot assholes. Seriously, how in the hell did this ever get past their legal department. You can't tell me that this isn't a lawsuit just waiting to happen. I can only assume that their next prod`
`20:33.41`	`cog\|work`	`i'm honestly tempted to get one of those infomercial speed reading thingies :\|`
`20:34.27`	`ckknight`	`alestane: which idea is this?`
`20:34.36`	`ckknight`	`alestane: also, cut off at "their next prod"`
`20:34.36`	`ScytheBlade1`	`alestane: "that their next prod" -- and it cuts off`
`20:34.41`	`alestane`	`Lego Candies.`
`20:34.42`	`ScytheBlade1`	`But that much is already very entertaining`
`20:34.46`	`ScytheBlade1`	`g`
`20:34.47`	`ScytheBlade1`	`HAHA`
`20:34.58`	`alestane`	`"...I can only assume that their next product is fruit flavored thumbtacks."`
`20:35.08`	`cog\|work`	`haha`
`20:36.24`	`alestane`	`Product Image here: http://penny-arcade.com/uploads/2008/06/18/legosnacks.jpg`
`20:36.58`	`Lunessa`	`Tycho & Gabe = Win`
`20:37.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-68-62-4-140.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`20:38.09`	`Maldivia`	`ohh... missed this line from the 2.4.3 notes "Equipping an item will now cancel any spell cast currently in progress."`
`20:38.38`	`Anaral`	`o.O`
`20:38.47`	`cog\|work`	`makes sense imo`
`20:39.26`	`Lunessa`	`We're going to see a lot less "swap my libram, staff, ring, or other gear" and cast macros.`
`20:40.23`	`Maldivia`	`well, was needed imo`
`20:40.35`	`Maldivia`	`removed some shitty required game play`
`20:41.14`	`durcyn`	`macros should be fine`
`20:41.25`	`durcyn`	`it's the equip-item-on-event addons they're going after`
`20:41.36`	`durcyn`	`i.e., lazy mode evocation, relic twisting`
`20:42.46`	`Drundia`	`relic twisting macros`
`20:42.55`	`Drundia`	`so macros aren't fine`
`20:43.36`	`*** join/#wowuidev DARKGuy_ (n=DARKGuy@201.211.45.36)`
`20:45.52`	`Josh_Borke`	`~emulate Josh_Borke`
`20:45.53`	`purl`	`ACTION hugs Cairenn`
`20:48.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`20:52.16`	`Shirik`	`ok....`
`20:52.17`	`Shirik`	`Error: Can't copy 'C:\Documents and Settings\m936\My Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\IRTracker\IRTracker.ncb' to 'C:\Documents and Settings\m936\My Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\IRTracker\.svn\tmp\text-base\IRTracker.ncb.svn-base.tmp': No error`
`20:52.23`	`Shirik`	`"can't copy" ... "no error"`
`20:52.35`	`cog\|work`	`ggms`
`20:52.48`	`Shirik`	`that's from tortoise :P`
`20:53.06`	`cog\|work`	`ah! i thought i'd seen it somewhere before`
`20:54.09`	`Shirik`	`I think it's because visual studio holds an exclusive lock on the .ncb file while it's running`
`20:54.14`	`Shirik`	`(that's the intellisense database)`
`20:54.35`	`Shirik`	`just the whole "no error" thing throws me off`
`20:56.42`	`alestane`	`Woohoo! WoWKon is dead!`
`20:57.01`	`Anaral`	`WoWKon?`
`20:57.09`	`ckknight`	`lol.`
`20:57.18`	`cog\|work`	`gold site?`
`20:57.23`	`Shirik`	`no`
`20:57.37`	`Shirik`	`a site that decided to steal from wowi, curse, etc.`
`20:57.42`	`alestane`	`Parasitic fansite. Ripped off a bunch of addons and news feeds in a flagrant attempt to garner ad revenue.`
`20:57.49`	`cog\|work`	`ah`
`20:58.06`	`Shirik`	`how do you know they're dead?`
`20:58.09`	`cog\|work`	`KONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!`
`20:58.17`	`Shirik`	`I take the fact that wowkon.com locks up firefox as a "it's dead"`
`20:58.23`	`alestane`	`The domain doesn't respond anymore.`
`20:58.40`	`Shirik`	`oh it sent me to some random search engine`
`20:58.41`	`Shirik`	`lol`
`20:59.44`	`Shirik`	`about to run doxygen for the first time after about a month of coding. How many errors/warnings will I get?`
`20:59.53`	`Cide`	`42`
`20:59.55`	`Cide`	`e12`
`21:01.19`	`Shirik`	`ow`
`21:01.24`	`Shirik`	`that's mean`
`21:01.29`	`Cide`	`that's how I roll`
`21:03.04`	`Sixen`	`Wow.`
`21:03.05`	`Sixen`	`What the fuck.`
`21:03.13`	`Sixen`	`I just got banned permanently from the forums for psoting the patch notes.`
`21:03.23`	`Sixen`	`The PTR Patch notes in the PTR forum`
`21:03.29`	`Sixen`	`That can be found on the official website.`
`21:03.39`	`Shirik`	`lol, doxygen gets confused to hell by CLR`
`21:03.57`	`Apoco`	`Sixen: what forums? The official ones?`
`21:04.01`	`kd3`	`sixen; wowreportedpost@blizzard.com. bitch`
`21:04.01`	`Sixen`	`Yes...`
`21:04.05`	`Sixen`	`What the fuck?`
`21:04.06`	`\|Jelly\|`	`I think I might name my Spore Creature Shirik. :P`
`21:04.07`	`Anaral`	`lol`
`21:04.08`	`Sixen`	`No seriously..`
`21:04.13`	`Sixen`	`I had posted the 2.4.3 patch notes`
`21:04.15`	`Anaral`	`Permanently?`
`21:04.20`	`Sixen`	`Hortus saw them, didn't delete my thread.`
`21:04.27`	`Sixen`	`Now i'm perma banned for posting "unreleased content"`
`21:04.39`	`alestane`	`Sixen: That does seem a little harsh, yes. Some moderator not in the know got carried away?`
`21:04.42`	`Shirik`	`:P \|Jelly\|`
`21:04.49`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Wait what? You're perma-banned?`
`21:04.52`	`Sixen`	`Yes..`
`21:04.57`	`Sixen`	`what the fuck`
`21:05.43`	`Anaral`	`I'd email the hell out of them.`
`21:05.43`	`alestane`	`That might be worth an appeal.`
`21:05.43`	`Sixen`	`...`
`21:05.43`	`Sixen`	`That's ridiculous..`
`21:06.36`	`alestane`	`I don't think all the forums are moderated by the same people, so maybe one missed the memo or something. That sounds like something you should be able to get fixed.`
`21:06.42`	`kd3`	`^`
`21:06.51`	`Sixen`	`I hope so..`
`21:06.54`	`Sixen`	`That's ridiculous.`
`21:06.59`	`ckknight`	`I agree`
`21:07.08`	`Sixen`	`Lol, Hortus saw the thread, he didn't do anything about it.`
`21:07.15`	`Pizik_afk`	`Some grceat quality control over those mods then ;oS`
`21:07.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`21:07.21`	`Pizik_afk`	`*great`
`21:08.07`	`Sixen`	`Oh okay`
`21:08.11`	`Sixen`	`Alright, at leastI got Hortus to see.`
`21:09.32`	`kd3`	`huh, they deleted the patch notes thread`
`21:09.38`	`Sixen`	`Yeah..`
`21:09.43`	`Sixen`	`I'm so confused.`
`21:09.49`	`nevcairiel`	`maybe they want their own thread`
`21:09.52`	`Sixen`	`HOpefully Hortus can do somethign about it.`
`21:10.02`	`kd3`	`you fire off an email yet?`
`21:10.09`	`Sixen`	`At the top of the thread, I said "Hortus, you can delete this when you make your intro to the PTR forums run, just put it here for now"`
`21:10.14`	`Sixen`	`and he saw it and didn't delete the thread.`
`21:10.24`	`Sixen`	`There were two 2.4.3 pacth notes thread, he delted the other one and left mine.`
`21:10.27`	`Sixen`	`So I assumed it was ok.`
`21:10.35`	`Sixen`	`Didn't e-mail anyone just yet.`
`21:11.20`	`Anaral`	`Well the Test Realm Forum post is still up.`
`21:11.29`	`Sixen`	`Yeah, they're cleaning the forums now.`
`21:11.35`	`Sixen`	`But my guide is still up and still, I haven't been postwiped.`
`21:11.59`	`*** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`21:12.32`	`Anaral`	`Well in Hortus' thread about the ptr opening soon, there are three posts with patch notes.`
`21:13.43`	`Anaral`	`And a link to the PTR PatchNotes directly.`
`21:14.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower)`
`21:14.24`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ`
`21:15.28`	`cog\|work`	`maybe the mod thought they were alpha notes?`
`21:15.38`	`cog\|work`	`there's been a lot of leaks floating around sadly :(`
`21:15.55`	`Anaral`	`Ugh.`
`21:16.05`	`Anaral`	`I realize mods make mistakes.`
`21:16.06`	`Cide`	`aye`
`21:16.57`	`cog\|work`	`can't really trust any of them at least :P`
`21:20.27`	`Lunessa`	`foxlit: Opie is ready? HAWT`
`21:22.00`	`foxlit`	`It's stable and moderately customizable, so yes :)`
`21:22.15`	`foxlit`	`Or I think it is, testing is a bit difficult :)`
`21:24.26`	`foxlit`	`Traffic pattern is interesting`
`21:25.11`	`AckisWork`	`Sixen: I was banned for asking about an e-mail to contact blizz`
`21:25.54`	`Anaral`	`Did you get unbanned?`
`21:25.59`	`AckisWork`	`me? no`
`21:26.19`	`Cide`	`was it regarding something like a previous locked post or stuff?`
`21:26.19`	`Anaral`	`That's ridiculous.`
`21:26.38`	`AckisWork`	`nah it was in an open thread`
`21:26.43`	`Cide`	`you're making an assessment based on incomplete information :P`
`21:27.04`	`AckisWork`	`not like I contribute to them anyways, official forums are mostly garbage`
`21:27.10`	`Pizik_afk`	`Why they cant just do a lock, a post delete or a warning is beyond me`
`21:27.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev QQngsk (n=Gngsk@c-68-55-245-105.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
`21:30.27`	`Sixen`	`Ackis, heh.`
`21:30.37`	`Sixen`	`I got temp banned for asking Faiz to meet me in-game once.`
`21:30.38`	`Sixen`	`:/`
`21:31.03`	`kd3`	`lol`
`21:31.10`	`AckisWork`	`I can see temp bans... but to perma ban someone off the start, that's just retarded, especially with no offenses`
`21:31.18`	`Sixen`	`Well, I was pissed, but I was back in a day`
`21:31.26`	`Sixen`	`Now perma banned for posting patch notes that were released on the website ;/`
`21:32.00`	`Lunessa`	`Sony Online Entertainment products make my eyes bleed.`
`21:32.02`	`Shirik`	`ttfn`
`21:32.14`	`AckisWork`	`their products are terrible, forums were great... lol`
`21:33.30`	`Lunessa`	`I played EQ for a stupidly long period of time. One day it occurred to me, "The design of this game is to punish me for playing at all." And I quit.`
`21:34.01`	`AckisWork`	`you can say that about any mmo`
`21:34.04`	`AckisWork`	`WoW included`
`21:34.23`	`cog\|work`	`not if you're having fun...`
`21:34.47`	`AckisWork`	`the nature of mmo's is repetition /shrug`
`21:34.56`	`AckisWork`	`I like wow don't get me wrong :P`
`21:35.36`	`cog\|work`	`repetition ~= punishment`
`21:36.25`	`*** join/#wowuidev pastamancer (n=kyle@vostok.13th-floor.org)`
`21:36.27`	`AckisWork`	`I would argue with you there, but I'm lazy so I'll just agree ;)`
`21:37.03`	`cog\|work`	`can be... not is`
`21:37.27`	`cog\|work`	`i can think of many repetitive things that are very much not punishment ;)`
`21:38.07`	`Dashkal`	`If you're talking about ... that ... then I must object. There is nothing fun about having to chop wood for the winter.`
`21:38.34`	`Lunessa`	`No, EQ's idea of "challenge" was non-obivious quests, huge penalties for death, endless repetition to make useless crap to gain skill in crafts, death due to the stupidity of others penalized just as heavily as death due to your own... (TRAIN TO ZONE!)`
`21:39.01`	`AckisWork`	`well you look at diablo/hellgate they mask the repetitiveness with randomness, whereas in MMO's it's the same thing over and over again until new content is released which you eat up in a week or so`
`21:39.31`	`cog\|work`	`I think the one patch change in wow that felt like that was when they made crafting requrie hardware events`
`21:39.53`	`cog\|work`	`still kind of irks me`
`21:40.05`	`Lunessa`	`The thing that still pisses me off about "end game content" in loot-reward systems is the FOOLISH idea that you need a large group of people but the end of the effort rewards only a small few.`
`21:40.10`	`AckisWork`	`crafting in wow is simplistic to what I was introduced to in SWG and with EQ2, so it never really irked me`
`21:40.16`	`Lunessa`	`Badges went a long way to fixing that in WoW.`
`21:40.43`	`AckisWork`	`but that's a different conversation`
`21:41.00`	`Pizik_afk`	`PlaneShift is a game with a complicated crafting system ;o)`
`21:41.07`	`Lunessa`	`Kill Lady Vox... Take 40 people. Only 3 get anything.`
`21:41.11`	`*** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@ip72-211-199-75.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`21:41.11`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ`
`21:41.21`	`Lunessa`	`The problem still exists in WoW, and every other MMO with loot.`
`21:41.51`	`Lunessa`	`It sucks. It's stupid, it's cruel and we line up to do it over and over, hoping that this time we'll get our fucking food pellet.`
`21:42.15`	`AckisWork`	`Lunessa: kill boss X, get credit for being in the raid, even if you don't get loot (after spending hours and hours wiping) OR do heroics and get equivalent rewards after spending some hours... that's the issue with badges and I think they're correcting this with wotlk`
`21:42.31`	`AckisWork`	`I'm biased of course because I raid`
`21:43.21`	`Lunessa`	`Meh... a social game should not always require large feats of social engineering (raid organization, loot systems, etc.) to be fun and or fair.`
`21:43.54`	`AckisWork`	`but it should actually reward those who spend the time and effort to do those feats...`
`21:44.04`	`Lunessa`	`I have raided in multiple games, I just think there has /got/ to be a better base design that's getting overlooked.`
`21:44.23`	`Pizik_afk`	`Is there any method to reduce the amount of data that is sent to the WoW server? or are the packets largely fixed?`
`21:44.31`	`DARKGuy_`	`Lunessa: are there other MMORPGs with raids? :P`
`21:44.33`	`Lunessa`	`And if you wave DKP at me, Cairenn\|afk will have to boot me for a while until I cool off. :P`
`21:44.40`	`*** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower)`
`21:44.40`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ`
`21:44.45`	`AckisWork`	`Lunessa: come up with one and you'll be rich`
`21:44.55`	`AckisWork`	`DKP works because it's fair and rewards everyone in the raid`
`21:45.09`	`Lunessa`	`AckisWork: Only if I can get the multi-millions needed to bring a new game to market. :P`
`21:45.23`	`Lunessa`	`No, actually it's just as flawed as the system it`
`21:45.30`	`Lunessa`	`is trying to correct.`
`21:45.40`	`cog\|work`	`^`
`21:45.40`	`Sixen`	`:(`
`21:45.42`	`Sixen`	`I'm sad.`
`21:46.01`	`Lunessa`	`~comfort Sixen`
`21:46.02`	`purl`	`There, there, Sixen. It's OK. I'm here for you.`
`21:46.02`	`Sixen`	`:/`
`21:46.12`	`AckisWork`	`you say the fundamental issue with raids is that it rewards a few out of the many... dkp allows everyone to get rewarded... it's the carrot so to speak (I'm not advocating it, I don't like dkp myself)`
`21:47.39`	`Lunessa`	`I'm saying encounters that require 10, 15, 20, or more people to complete should reward all the participants in some fashion. Not just 2-3. This is why I like toekns/badges more than just random drops.`
`21:47.41`	`AckisWork`	`and even with all this talk of raiding, I probably won't be doing it anymore in a couple weeks... sooner if we kill KJ tonight`
`21:47.58`	`AckisWork`	`I think we're arguing the same thing...`
`21:48.15`	`AckisWork`	`dkp fixes the flaw that only a few people get rewarded`
`21:48.20`	`AckisWork`	`reputation form killing a boss as well`
`21:48.22`	`Lunessa`	`I like the idea of epic encounters. I just don't think the current reward system in almost any MMO makes real sense.`
`21:48.33`	`AckisWork`	`but for me... I have full T6+ on my toon... what do I need badges for?`
`21:48.49`	`cog\|work`	`Get rid of BOP, lose all your shit when you die, make crafted items better, expand the economic features...`
`21:49.04`	`AckisWork`	`you get more badges out of kara than you do out of BT as well...`
`21:49.05`	`Anaral`	`AckisWork: Why will you stop raiding once you kill KJ?`
`21:49.16`	`AckisWork`	`Anaral: tired of the game and guild issues`
`21:49.22`	`Lunessa`	`cog\|work: more libertarian ideas and better economies in MMOs.`
`21:49.40`	`cog\|work`	`Works for Eve :)`
`21:49.41`	`Anaral`	`Will you come back for LichKing?`
`21:49.47`	`AckisWork`	`don't know really`
`21:50.02`	`AckisWork`	`it looks interesting but it's going to be more of the same`
`21:50.33`	`AckisWork`	`a rose by any other name is still a rose? or something like that :P`
`21:50.34`	`cog\|work`	`yeah, but roses come in so many colors these days!!!`
`21:50.34`	`cog\|work`	`:P`
`21:50.34`	`Anaral`	`Well I'll miss ARL in Lich, if you don't come back to it. ;)`
`21:50.34`	`AckisWork`	`cog\|work: look at how successful eve is :P I couldn't stand it`
`21:50.40`	`Anaral`	`I use it so much.`
`21:50.40`	`AckisWork`	`someone will take ARL over I'm sure ;)`
`21:50.48`	`Lunessa`	`Sadly, the parts of leveling games that aren't broken ... the leveling process.`
`21:50.57`	`cog\|work`	`AckisWork: didn't say eve was perfect :P`
`21:51.19`	`cog\|work`	`But there are plenty of lessons to be learned from its economy imo`
`21:51.22`	`AckisWork`	`Anaral: plus I'll be doing wotlk updates and stuff even if I don't play, I'm enjoying coding a lot`
`21:51.31`	`Anaral`	`Yay!`
`21:51.50`	`cog\|work`	`I think the main problem with it as far as drawing huge crowds is the lack of directed content`
`21:52.01`	`AckisWork`	`was trying to get a FF invite to start on some of it now actually :P lol`
`21:52.25`	`Anaral`	`You need an FF invite for 3.0?`
`21:52.26`	`cog\|work`	`WoW has very defined sets of goals which is at once restrictive and comforting`
`21:53.01`	`AckisWork`	`FF = friends and family`
`21:53.02`	`cog\|work`	`Eve takes a lot more involvement and creativity in order to have fun`
`21:53.07`	`Anaral`	`Ah`
`21:53.22`	`cog\|work`	`but it's open ended to a fault for many people`
`21:53.28`	`Pizik_afk`	`Its goals are to please the most people, just enough of the time to keep them paying the subscription`
`21:53.29`	`kd3`	`that's because there's next-to-no-plot in eve... it's all pvp`
`21:53.35`	`AckisWork`	`cog\|work: Eve has a community, WoW doesn't... what little it had was destroyed w/ transfers`
`21:54.19`	`AckisWork`	`and you're right, that was my problem with eve... no story at all... just kinda thrust into this open ended game`
`21:55.59`	`cog\|work`	`I'd really like to see WoW switch to a broker system rather than auctions... Wow's economy is so lopsided`
`21:56.10`	`kd3`	`"economy"?`
`21:56.28`	`cog\|work`	`exactly :P`
`21:56.43`	`Pizik_afk`	`Gold sellers kill the economy, along with people mailing cash from high level alts`
`21:56.55`	`Lunessa`	`Meh, I'd just like to see some content before the Xpac- without having to be a master social planner.`
`21:56.58`	`cog\|work`	`i don't hink gold sellers have nearly the effect most people assert`
`21:57.14`	`AckisWork`	`anyways I'm heading home if you want I can discuss when I get there`
`21:57.25`	`Pizik_afk`	`I believe it is the combination of the two cog\|work`
`21:57.31`	`kd3`	`nah. gold falling from the sky in the form of dalies probably outweighs the effect gold sellers used to have`
`21:57.34`	`Lunessa`	`I never got to do BWL before TBC. I have yet to get to do anything past Kara.`
`21:57.52`	`Lunessa`	`Well, Kara/Za`
`21:58.40`	`\|Jelly\|`	`It's over rated`
`21:59.11`	`erikd`	`if by that you mean frustrating and stressful, yeah`
`21:59.35`	`\|Jelly\|`	`No, I said what I meant.`
`21:59.57`	`cog\|work`	`i've killed one boss in kara once... that's the extent of my BC raiding :\|`
`21:59.59`	`Pizik_afk`	`Thing that bothers me most is people have no guild loyalty, i spent 2 years trying to build a guild to raid and finally gave up`
`22:00.05`	`Anaral`	`I'd love to see the content of 25 mans, but I have no desire to deal with the added stress, time, and energy it takes to do it.`
`22:00.09`	`Lunessa`	`Heh, Yeah. My 'crappy' gear isn't actually crappy.`
`22:00.52`	`Lunessa`	`http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&n=Unkle`
`22:01.18`	`Lunessa`	`So it's not like I /need/ the content for gear. I just want to see some places I haven't been 80-bajillion times.`
`22:01.31`	`Anaral`	`Heh`
`22:01.44`	`Dashkal`	`Anaral: agreed`
`22:01.44`	`cog\|work`	`The best gear i have is from a battleground binge i went on last September...`
`22:02.07`	`Matrix110`	`Raiding is the only good part of WoW`
`22:02.09`	`Dashkal`	`Our guild once hearin gabout the 10 man changes in LK decided to stop growing for the sake of growing. We won't get back into 25 mans unless the xpack gets pushed to next year`
`22:02.12`	`Matrix110`	`and even raiding begins to suck now :P`
`22:02.54`	`Anaral`	`Raiding isn't the only good part. If it were, then there wouldn't be anything else. ;)`
`22:03.06`	`Pizik_afk`	`No matter what level of gameing you can achieve, it all gets pretty dull pretty quickly`
`22:03.06`	`\|Jelly\|`	`I don't know. I love raiding ... I just hate, well, healing.`
`22:03.36`	`cog\|work`	`http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Garona&n=Cogwheel`
`22:03.55`	`Lunessa`	`\|Jelly\|: Precisely why, after 2 years as the only healer in my guild, I said "Fuck it" and moved over to being an enhancement shaman.`
`22:04.05`	`erikd`	`i love healing, i'd get bored playing dps`
`22:04.20`	`\|Jelly\|`	`I'm one of two CoH priests in my guild. :-\`
`22:04.45`	`erikd`	`i've been the only resto druid in our raid since... probably ssc/tk`
`22:05.07`	`\|Jelly\|`	`I hate to say it, but ... different.`
`22:05.36`	`\|Jelly\|`	`You're 41 point isn't so niche that it's all but rendered useless in all but a very few encounters. :-\`
`22:05.40`	`Anaral`	`Heh. Yeah, Dash, our guild is actually at max capacity (almost 500 toons, after 500 the guild roster doesn't show log ons and guild mods break), with 2 25 mans, neither group will likely see Sunwell beyond some trash before LK.`
`22:05.51`	`Lunessa`	`The problem with playing as the only healer was that I would get asked to help everyone under the sun do their quests, and no one wanted to help me do mine. And when I switched mains you should have heard the QQ about my "holding up progression."`
`22:06.08`	`\|Jelly\|`	`And while I'm not "forced" as in they're not going to come hold a gun to my head if I spec out of it, I'm not going to be allowed on [certain] the raids either if I don't have it.`
`22:06.31`	`cog\|work`	`!vs us garona cogwheel us kirin tor unkle`
`22:06.47`	`cog\|work`	`no thraebot`
`22:06.54`	`Lunessa`	`Heh.`
`22:07.00`	`\|Jelly\|`	`~seen thraebot`
`22:07.02`	`purl`	`thraebot <n=ThraeBot@pool-71-166-57-140.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 121d 21h 46m 21s ago, saying: 'Shirik: Arena points from a rating of 1608 is, 2v2: 361, 3v3: 418, 5v5: 475'.`
`22:07.08`	`\|Jelly\|`	`hmm`
`22:07.14`	`Lunessa`	`121 days.`
`22:07.31`	`Matrix110`	`CoH is awesome :P`
`22:07.34`	`Lunessa`	`Cog - you'd get PWNT.`
`22:08.08`	`Lunessa`	`Circle of Healing is indeed the hawtness.`
`22:08.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik (i=nospam@1.sub-75-196-188.myvzw.com)`
`22:08.58`	`cog\|work`	`Lunessa: no doubt`
`22:08.59`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ`
`22:09.19`	`\|Jelly\|`	`While I'm not going to argue that point, the fact is, it's for all intents and purposes, useless except for very few encounters where a PARTY is together. If they'd remove the PARTY limit and make it heal 5 raid members, preferably smart (like chain heal) it'd be better imo.`
`22:09.33`	`cog\|work`	`I was never really able to kill anything in BGs without a healer`
`22:09.43`	`Lunessa`	`I have almost as much health as you, but can't soak as much as you.`
`22:09.43`	`Matrix110`	`ofc it would be better but CoH is awesome already as it is`
`22:09.50`	`erikd`	`jelly: we usually bring a disc priest for spi and 1-2 coh priests`
`22:10.12`	`\|Jelly\|`	`[17:03]<\|Jelly\|>I'm one of two CoH priests in my guild. :-\ <<`
`22:10.13`	`erikd`	`coh is amazing, i think`
`22:10.29`	`Matrix110`	`CoH is with chain heal the best healing skill ingame`
`22:10.52`	`\|Jelly\|`	`And with that ... back to my UI`
`22:10.56`	`Lunessa`	`It always baffled me that I can't get a raid to show up if I lead it as my Shaman, but if I lead it as my Priest... the guild would show up.`
`22:11.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev kaelten_ (n=kaelten@adsl-074-239-065-141.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net)`
`22:19.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys_ (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`22:20.52`	`bleeter`	`ah, hell and damn you blizz. how dare you fix my winterveil present... a blue item that broke a week after winterveil was perfect. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??!!!`
`22:21.07`	`Anaral`	`Lol`
`22:21.38`	`Anaral`	`And on that note, I must go pay attention to children. Farewell for now.`
`22:21.53`	`cog\|work`	`gl`
`22:22.00`	`bleeter`	`cya`
`22:22.05`	`bleeter`	`hai cog :)`
`22:22.12`	`cog\|work`	`hai2u`
`22:25.47`	`Sixen`	`Phew.`
`22:25.50`	`Sixen`	`Unbanned, =D`
`22:27.39`	`kd3`	`grats`
`22:28.19`	`cog\|work`	`wewt`
`22:30.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys_ (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`22:33.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@wikia/Kirkburn)`
`22:33.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-76-238-3-194.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`22:35.55`	`Shirik`	`'scp' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file`
`22:35.57`	`Shirik`	`:(`
`22:36.14`	`cog\|work`	`cygwin imo`
`22:36.28`	`cog\|work`	`or putty`
`22:36.34`	`Shirik`	`just opened cygwin actually :)`
`22:36.49`	`Shirik`	`just a lot of my programs in cygwin also run in command prompt for some reason`
`22:37.10`	`cog\|work`	`might have your cygwin bin folder in the path`
`22:38.02`	`Shirik`	`ok, why do I have a folder ~ in my home directory`
`22:38.07`	`Shirik`	`this is very difficult to get to`
`22:38.16`	`nevcairiel`	`heh`
`22:38.22`	`Shirik`	`oh no, it's a file ~`
`22:38.23`	`Shirik`	`great`
`22:38.39`	`Shirik`	`I fail so miserably at using scp`
`22:38.57`	`Shirik`	`apparently when I copied that file from work to my server, it created the file ~ in the home directory`
`22:39.15`	`nevcairiel`	`use some GUI for scp then`
`22:39.21`	`Shirik`	`too lazy to download`
`22:39.27`	`Shirik`	`it worked, I can get it`
`22:39.47`	`erikd`	`WinSCP!`
`22:40.04`	`nevcairiel`	`thats what i use too`
`22:40.17`	`Shirik`	`I already had cygwin and ssh/scp so`
`22:40.23`	`Shirik`	`I just don't use scp enough`
`22:49.59`	`*** join/#wowuidev Unregistered (n=Unregist@pool-71-170-118-183.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)`
`22:50.52`	`Thunder_Child`	`~shirik`
`22:50.52`	`purl`	`from memory, shirik is "If I had to sum up my life, I'd have to say, the one thing I hate doing is nothing." --Shirik`
`22:51.29`	`*** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-76-238-3-194.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`22:54.25`	`*** join/#wowuidev Sixen (n=Sixen@12.206.135.48)`
`22:59.16`	`cog\|work`	`Lunessa: win`
`22:59.31`	`Lunessa`	`?`
`22:59.33`	`cog\|work`	`(though you should quote him before he deletes after realizing he's an idiot :P)`
`22:59.39`	`cog\|work`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7116638533&pageNo=1&sid=1#5`
`22:59.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-68-62-4-140.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`23:00.05`	`Sixen`	`lawl`
`23:01.44`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Sixen: did you get forum banned? Or am I reading this thread wrong?`
`23:01.52`	`Sixen`	`I got permabanned.`
`23:01.56`	`Sixen`	`But got it reversed.`
`23:01.58`	`ScytheBlade1`	`0_0`
`23:02.00`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Over what?`
`23:02.06`	`Lunessa`	`cog\|work: Fixed`
`23:02.07`	`Sixen`	`I posted the PTR PAtch Notes in the PTR Forums.`
`23:02.15`	`Sixen`	`Banned for "posting unreleased content"`
`23:02.17`	`ScytheBlade1`	`lol, poor Hortus`
`23:02.25`	`Sixen`	`Even though I copied the PTR Patch Notes from their website, =o.`
`23:02.33`	`Sixen`	`And Hortus saw the thread, he didn't mind it being there.`
`23:02.44`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I can totally see him just making a mistake like that, though`
`23:02.54`	`cog\|work`	`most likely wasn't him`
`23:02.54`	`Sixen`	`lol`
`23:02.57`	`Sixen`	`It wasn't him, =P.`
`23:03.02`	`Sixen`	`He talked to the Community Team`
`23:03.10`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Ah`
`23:03.17`	`Sixen`	`I got it taken care of.. Up Norht.`
`23:03.25`	`ScytheBlade1`	`heh`
`23:03.36`	`Shirik`	`I would have banned Sixen`
`23:03.41`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I just was re-reading the thread and suddenly they're talking about you being banned`
`23:03.41`	`Sixen`	`How so? :/`
`23:03.45`	`Sixen`	`Yeah :/`
`23:03.49`	`Shirik`	`just cause`
`23:03.51`	`ScytheBlade1`	`And I got all confused, as I would have no idea as to why`
`23:04.03`	`Sixen`	`Mmm, I was confused too =o`
`23:04.13`	`Sixen`	`I was about to post and bam, "Ban Lenght" Permanent"`
`23:04.14`	`Sixen`	`I was like O_O`
`23:04.26`	`ScytheBlade1`	`haha. owned.`
`23:05.01`	`Sixen`	`Yeah`
`23:05.05`	`Sixen`	`After I calmed down a bit I said that.`
`23:05.14`	`Sixen`	`It caught be off guard to be honest, =o.`
`23:05.19`	`Sixen`	`me*`
`23:07.06`	`Lunessa`	`Seriously though, do I come off as an asshole? I didn't for the life of me think anywhere in that thread I was rude until the very end.`
`23:07.36`	`Sixen`	`I <3 you Lune.`
`23:07.53`	`Sixen`	`You comforted me in my time of need, ^_^.`
`23:08.39`	`Thunder_Child`	`Lunessa, we know you are an asshole, however you did not come across as one in the post`
`23:09.44`	`Thunder_Child`	`luckily you save all the fun asshole stuff for IRC`
`23:09.59`	`Sixen`	`Hahahah`
`23:10.07`	`Lunessa`	`Well, I prefer not to get an enforced forum vacation.`
`23:10.40`	`Thunder_Child`	`why not? most people can use a vacation from the forums`
`23:10.43`	`Ackis`	`alert: I am back`
`23:10.50`	`Thunder_Child`	`enforced or not`
`23:10.59`	`Sixen`	`Yeah but i'd rather go on vacation on my own, ;/`
`23:11.08`	`kd3`	`meh, there's a fine line. I rather enjoy being an asshole on the PTR forum, but I haven't gotten banned from the forums for that`
`23:11.16`	`Lunessa`	`I take a two or three day break from the every week. I just don't want a ban. Sorry Sixen, but... I'm actually not picking on you.`
`23:11.49`	`Lunessa`	`Most of my "forum breaks" come when I want to play the game pretty intensively.`
`23:11.57`	`Sixen`	`No worries lune.`
`23:12.05`	`Sixen`	`I'm calling you Lune.`
`23:14.30`	`*** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-68-62-4-140.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`23:14.31`	`Lunessa`	`Everyone does.`
`23:14.47`	`Lunessa`	`When I used Lothay as a handle, everyone called me Loth.`
`23:17.04`	`*** join/#wowuidev Diskmaster (n=YOURFACE@CPE-76-85-147-197.neb.res.rr.com)`
`23:17.07`	`Sixen`	`Hahaha, license plates just came.`
`23:17.11`	`Sixen`	`"Sixen"`
`23:17.12`	`Sixen`	`:D`
`23:17.28`	`cog\|work`	`sweet :)`
`23:17.36`	`Sixen`	`I was jealous of yours though Cog.`
`23:17.43`	`Sixen`	`"4GNMRGN"`
`23:17.45`	`Sixen`	`Or whatever you had.`
`23:17.49`	`cog\|work`	`yep`
`23:17.51`	`Sixen`	`;)`
`23:17.58`	`cog\|work`	`also have OMW HOME on the station wagon`
`23:18.11`	`Sixen`	`Hahahahaha`
`23:18.19`	`ScytheBlade1`	`lol win`
`23:18.32`	`Thunder_Child`	`i'm sure bleeter has DWNUNDR`
`23:18.55`	`Sixen`	`lol`
`23:19.04`	`cog\|work`	`Some day we plan to commission a metalworker to do the gnome crest for the front of our house =)`
`23:19.05`	`bleeter`	`TEHDEVIL`
`23:20.12`	`Lunessa`	`Heh, back in the day when I played a lot of Warhammer 40,000 I had a license plate that said "PLAY40K"`
`23:20.15`	`Legorol`	`What happens now: random noob gets kicked from party in a heroic (after a couple of bosses are down), but refuses to leave instance.`
`23:20.28`	`Legorol`	`Since it's a raid instance, he doesn't get ported, and the replacement can't enter.`
`23:20.32`	`Legorol`	`Any way to deal with it?`
`23:20.43`	`Lunessa`	`Let him die?`
`23:20.44`	`Matrix110`	`You get ported now`
`23:20.47`	`Thunder_Child`	`voteban`
`23:20.53`	`Thunder_Child`	`oh wait, wrong game`
`23:20.54`	`Legorol`	`Matrix110: not so.`
`23:20.58`	`Matrix110`	`weird`
`23:21.02`	`Legorol`	`This guy is sitting there.`
`23:21.08`	`Legorol`	`Are you sure you are supposed to be ported?`
`23:21.15`	`Thunder_Child`	`why did they get rid of the port?`
`23:21.17`	`Legorol`	`I thought you are never ported from a raid instance you are locked to`
`23:21.18`	`Matrix110`	`We discovered that kicking someone inside a raid instance ports them out again like it should be`
`23:21.19`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Legorol: open a ticket. alternately, do you have a hunter? ;)`
`23:21.20`	`Lunessa`	`It's a raid id and he's saved to it.`
`23:21.32`	`Legorol`	`yup he is saved to it`
`23:21.44`	`Legorol`	`Matrix110: when was that?`
`23:21.45`	`Sixen`	`Wow, so I need a break, :x. Hopping in the pool, be back soon.`
`23:21.48`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Matrix110: unless it's changed relatively recently, if you have a raid ID for an instance (heroic, raid, whatever) you will not be ported, even if you're not in a group`
`23:21.49`	`bleeter`	`Legorol: nope, they own the instance ID as much as you, stuff all can be done`
`23:21.50`	`Matrix110`	`1week ago`
`23:21.55`	`Matrix110`	`We were in SW`
`23:21.58`	`Matrix110`	`all saved`
`23:22.03`	`Matrix110`	`kicked him and he got ported`
`23:22.06`	`Matrix110`	`he wondered aswell`
`23:22.10`	`Matrix110`	`before it never worked`
`23:22.15`	`cog\|away`	`bbl`
`23:22.28`	`Matrix110`	`BUt he was dead`
`23:22.36`	`Matrix110`	`no idea if that had something to do with it`
`23:22.43`	`Legorol`	`that could have`
`23:22.49`	`Legorol`	`i haven't seen a live person ported yet`
`23:22.51`	`Matrix110`	`(dead but not released so nobody can enter for him)`
`23:23.12`	`bleeter`	`hope they come up with some fixings for that in wrath... seems to be a high-ticket generating 'issue'`
`23:23.27`	`Matrix110`	`Raid ID should be bound to the leader`
`23:23.36`	`Matrix110`	`and he should be able to kick everybody not in his group`
`23:23.48`	`bleeter`	`specially the '6 people in an instance' issue with someone gets DC'd and there's stuff all you can do except give up on the heroic daily`
`23:23.59`	`Matrix110`	`Instance stealing is fun aswell`
`23:24.01`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`i imagine there's a number of reasonable technical reasons why that hasn't been done`
`23:24.32`	`bleeter`	`I suspect it's more a social issue than technical`
`23:24.38`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`could be both.`
`23:24.40`	`Matrix110`	`When people steal BTs cleared upto Mother and only kill the 3 loot bosses`
`23:24.44`	`Legorol`	`You can't have a raid bound to the leader`
`23:24.55`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`but i've really no idea how the game handles or understands ids and instances`
`23:25.01`	`bleeter`	`yeah, what if leader DCs?`
`23:25.06`	`Legorol`	`Otherwise the non-leaders can do it multiple times`
`23:25.11`	`Matrix110`	`No`
`23:25.14`	`Matrix110`	`I meant it like`
`23:25.24`	`Legorol`	`NightHawkTheSane: it's very simple. If you are locked to an ID, you are equivalent to all other people locked to it.`
`23:25.31`	`Matrix110`	`All get saved but the "ultimate leader" has special functions as he was the leader at the first save`
`23:25.55`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Legorol: er, yeah, i understand THAT. I meant more technically in terms of implementing Matrix110's ideas :P`
`23:26.08`	`Matrix110`	`I was replying to Legorol :P`
`23:26.40`	`Legorol`	`All right, problem solved with social engineering.`
`23:26.50`	`Legorol`	`It's a bit nasty, but he was being very childish. This is what we did:`
`23:26.59`	`Matrix110`	`tell him you open whiny thread on forums`
`23:27.01`	`Legorol`	`gave him offer to try one more time, wipe, everyone starts running back fast`
`23:27.02`	`Matrix110`	`solved`
`23:27.13`	`Legorol`	`when he released, he is kicked, replacement standing by invited, and enters`
`23:27.25`	`Matrix110`	`:D`
`23:27.31`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Legorol: ooh, clever. I'll have to remember that one.`
`23:27.42`	`Matrix110`	`Didnt make 1 PUG in TBC so far`
`23:27.47`	`Matrix110`	`glad about it :P`
`23:27.59`	`Matrix110`	`Stratholme PUGs were so awful`
`23:28.13`	`Matrix110`	`luckily I could clear it almost alone with a healer`
`23:28.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik)`
`23:28.26`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ`
`23:28.53`	`Lunessa`	`At 70, most people can clear all the trash fights solo. Some of the bosses would be difficult. like, say... Baroness.`
`23:29.24`	`Dashkal`	`Is she actually technically soloable? I thought the fight would bug when she possessed you`
`23:29.35`	`Matrix110`	`2manned Strat pre Naxx with a Pala :D`
`23:29.44`	`Matrix110`	`was funny`
`23:29.49`	`Matrix110`	`took a bit long though`
`23:29.54`	`Matrix110`	`but Baroness is funny`
`23:29.59`	`Matrix110`	`sheep 2nd person for 1min`
`23:30.25`	`Matrix110`	`Magister is hard though`
`23:30.37`	`Matrix110`	`as he has a infinite increasing buff that makes him hit harder`
`23:30.54`	`Matrix110`	`Had to kite him to death`
`23:33.26`	`Tem`	`Baroness was no problem for my mage`
`23:33.43`	`Tem`	`.. I should try to solo strat on my druid`
`23:33.59`	`Tem`	`tank gear makes most elites trivial`
`23:35.36`	`Arrowmaster`	`i know a lvl 70 warrior thats soloed MC to garr and soloed garr`
`23:36.04`	`Arrowmaster`	`fyi he enraged after 25 minutes`
`23:46.31`	`Lunessa`	`logdan - sensible, sane, and well informed. We need more posters like that.`
`23:47.03`	`bleeter`	`liez`
`23:51.18`	`Corrodias`	`solo strat is, as a feral druid, pretty easy`
`23:51.38`	`Corrodias`	`mix damage & tanking gear to hit the level 60 armor cap and you can do quite well, depending on gear level`
`23:52.05`	`Corrodias`	`the only challenge back when i did it was the baron himself, and it was still possible`

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