| 00:00.00 | Tain | Over the Albino I think. |
| 00:00.51 | Canislupus | i am not using Perl Classic any more, Clad |
| 00:01.26 | Canislupus | raise your hand if you have ChatBox 1.20 installed |
| 00:01.36 | KarlKFI | ChatEdit ftw |
| 00:01.42 | Tain | I don't. |
| 00:01.44 | KarlKFI | oh wait, i haven't released it yet |
| 00:01.53 | Tain | But momma's got a squeezebox, daddy doesn't sleep at night. |
| 00:02.08 | KarlKFI | ah that's right... the damn editboxes truncate for no good reason |
| 00:02.20 | KarlKFI | anyone have any idea why that is? |
| 00:02.26 | Canislupus | in ChatBox? |
| 00:02.40 | Canislupus | i can help you with that on |
| 00:02.45 | KarlKFI | no no |
| 00:03.06 | KarlKFI | i have an editbox that holds all the currently visible chat in a chatframe, so liek 128 lines |
| 00:03.08 | Tain | In ChattyChatChatEditBox |
| 00:03.12 | Canislupus | oh, b/c in Chatbox, it would CHANGE chat channels in the middle of typing... very annoying |
| 00:03.22 | KarlKFI | and abotu 1/2 the way down it truncates with ... |
| 00:03.38 | KarlKFI | yet you can still sellect invisible text bellow it |
| 00:03.43 | KarlKFI | and copy it all |
| 00:03.53 | Canislupus | wouldnt you guess that there is a 64 char limit to chat? |
| 00:04.03 | KarlKFI | it's not 128 chars |
| 00:04.15 | KarlKFI | it's like 128 lines of unspecified length |
| 00:04.28 | Canislupus | wow.. |
| 00:04.51 | Canislupus | oh, i see, the chat history then... |
| 00:05.04 | KarlKFI | the only thing i can think of is that somehow the hidden color code |haarrggbb is makign it think it's longer than it really is |
| 00:05.27 | KarlKFI | since there's like 2 or 3 of those per line at least |
| 00:05.29 | Canislupus | why aren't you dumping it into a log file for editing in your mod? |
| 00:05.40 | KarlKFI | cause that's not what it's for |
| 00:06.01 | Canislupus | well you have my curiosity.. |
| 00:06.14 | KarlKFI | here, i'll send you my prototype |
| 00:06.17 | Canislupus | kk |
| 00:06.33 | Legorol | can anyone think of an API call off-hand that will result in an immediate event trigger? |
| 00:06.37 | Legorol | before the call returns |
| 00:06.46 | Legorol | anything will do |
| 00:08.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 00:11.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@ip68-106-219-78.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:12.24 | AnduinLothar | dcc doesn't like oyu |
| 00:13.06 | AnduinLothar | silly manual accept.. |
| 00:13.14 | Canislupus | lol i am pretty much an IRC noob, using mIRC only |
| 00:13.15 | AnduinLothar | tell it to popup a screen |
| 00:14.02 | Canislupus | so KarlKFI=Anduin? |
| 00:14.05 | Legorol | don't forget that DCC uses a reverse connection process, so it's the person that is trying to send the file that needs to have fw port open |
| 00:14.12 | Legorol | this may or may not be relevant |
| 00:14.35 | AnduinLothar | it is open. i checked my router |
| 00:14.45 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 00:15.11 | Canislupus | Legorol, are you trying to find an event to fire, or do you suspect one is firing already? |
| 00:15.21 | Legorol | i am trying to find one to fire |
| 00:15.26 | Canislupus | i see |
| 00:15.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@203.100.211.117) |
| 00:15.32 | Legorol | i want to deliberately cause an event to fire whilst i am in Lua |
| 00:15.46 | chuckg_ | cladhaire, update Miniblizzraid! |
| 00:15.47 | chuckg_ | D= |
| 00:15.48 | Legorol | and one that is fired immediately, not delayed until after i return from Lua |
| 00:15.51 | Canislupus | a timer event woulndt fire soon enough, would it? |
| 00:15.54 | chuckg_ | My poor UI memory! |
| 00:15.58 | cladhaire | chuckg_: WHy? it doesn't work =) |
| 00:15.59 | cladhaire | lol |
| 00:16.02 | cladhaire | or edit the code yourself. |
| 00:16.03 | cladhaire | but.. okay |
| 00:16.04 | chuckg_ | It was blocking some of it! |
| 00:16.04 | Legorol | what timer event? |
| 00:16.12 | AnduinLothar | EasyRaid ftw |
| 00:16.26 | AnduinLothar | Easy raid is ownage |
| 00:17.02 | cladhaire | umm.. j |
| 00:17.04 | cladhaire | k |
| 00:17.11 | cladhaire | what do you do with the other 110 frames it makes? |
| 00:19.25 | Canislupus | so anyone want to help me troubleshoot ChatBox? i am very dissapointed i havent found the problem yet... |
| 00:22.15 | Tem_ | Do I have a right to be pissed off that a priest took our first Mishun'dare? |
| 00:22.46 | AnduinLothar | if item distribution makes you pissed you need to get off your ass |
| 00:23.04 | Tem | you know what I mean |
| 00:25.27 | Canislupus | I cant find a timer event to fire.... sorry |
| 00:26.18 | Wobin | Tem: No =P |
| 00:26.25 | Tem | why? |
| 00:26.35 | Wobin | Tem: You have a right to be pissed that you didn't win it, sure |
| 00:26.44 | Tem | please explain to me how a priest taking DPS gear from DPSers is helping the raid |
| 00:26.46 | Wobin | But not that someone else won it =P |
| 00:27.05 | Tem | I wasn't even bidding on it |
| 00:27.10 | Wobin | It could easily be also a hps gear |
| 00:27.16 | Tem | no |
| 00:27.17 | Tain | If the guild/raid's loot system allows him to do it then you have a right to be pissed, but not a reason. |
| 00:27.20 | Tem | there is better dps gear |
| 00:27.21 | Wobin | It doesn't specify damage spells |
| 00:27.23 | Tem | er, healer gear |
| 00:27.33 | Tem | yeah, that's a serious mistake, IMO |
| 00:27.50 | Tem | It pisses me off that there is no +damage gear |
| 00:28.04 | Tem | only +heal and damage so healers think they can take it from us |
| 00:28.22 | Tain | If loot priority isn't specified then you're simply accepting that it's going to happen. |
| 00:28.41 | Tem | *shudder* |
| 00:29.29 | Tain | Of course I got being annoyed at any loot issues out of my system a good six years or so ago in EverQuest. :) |
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| 00:40.49 | AnduinLothar | oh Canislupus: shift click a chat frame to make that work |
| 00:41.15 | AnduinLothar | then click outside it or esc to go back |
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| 00:48.13 | gnorlish | it's +35 to dmg and healing, it's horrible for healing only |
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| 00:52.08 | Kirkburn | Yay for bear form :D |
| 01:00.56 | Kaso | ReloadUIing used to stop multi-stop flights didnt it? |
| 01:02.07 | Wobin | yeah |
| 01:02.10 | Wobin | actually |
| 01:02.17 | Wobin | I dunno, I just 'camp'ed =) |
| 01:04.01 | Tem | gnorlish, thank you |
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| 01:06.29 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
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| 01:28.55 | Kirkburn | Coming or going Gryphen? ;) |
| 01:29.49 | cladhaire | Clique 0.2.0 released: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?s=&id=5108 |
| 01:32.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@203.100.211.117) |
| 01:33.32 | Kirkburn | Looks very nice!! |
| 01:34.05 | Kirov | pretty interface |
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| 01:34.41 | Kirov | Though personally I like the interface for SimpleCompass better |
| 01:35.08 | Kirov | mainly because I A) made it and B) it's built in to the pretty graphics |
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| 01:42.07 | End | well that's fucked up |
| 01:42.32 | End | I have an item in my inventory that appears as a question mark |
| 01:42.35 | End | if I try linking it |
| 01:42.38 | End | it disconnects mer |
| 01:42.41 | End | s/mer/me |
| 01:42.56 | End | maybe killing my WDB will help |
| 01:43.18 | Kaso | thats pretty cool |
| 01:43.43 | Kaso | you say linking it you mean you DC when you press enter or DC when you try to shift-click it |
| 01:44.04 | End | when I press enter |
| 01:44.13 | End | the link shows up blank |
| 01:44.16 | End | like... |
| 01:44.17 | End | p[ |
| 01:44.19 | End | whoops |
| 01:44.23 | End | [] |
| 01:45.20 | Kaso | how wierd |
| 01:45.23 | Kaso | save the link to a saved var or something |
| 01:45.23 | sancus | is there like |
| 01:45.28 | Kaso | could be intested |
| 01:45.33 | Kaso | interesting |
| 01:45.34 | sancus | a newbie's guide to OnUpdate do's and don'ts for like efficiency and so on |
| 01:45.51 | clad|sleep | night all |
| 01:45.54 | Kirkburn | night |
| 01:46.16 | Kaso | dont: create lots of locals, Call lots of functions do: make it quick as possible :> |
| 01:47.11 | End | oh |
| 01:47.14 | End | and I'm invisible |
| 01:48.41 | Kaso | sancus http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Use_OnUpdate_Correctly is about all there is, its pretty basic though. |
| 01:48.48 | End | item:13966:0:0:374684256 |
| 01:49.33 | End | ah |
| 01:49.37 | End | mark of tyranny |
| 01:49.44 | sancus | thanks |
| 01:49.45 | sancus | thats good |
| 01:50.00 | Kaso | You choose Mark of Tyranny?! |
| 01:50.06 | End | I play a druid |
| 01:50.11 | Kaso | Ah right |
| 01:50.21 | Kaso | Thats more understanable |
| 01:50.24 | End | yeah |
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| 01:55.17 | End | great |
| 01:55.25 | End | now I'm stuck on Connected while logging back in |
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| 02:00.42 | End | hmm, looks like maybe I should play an alt on another server |
| 02:00.50 | End | (or not play at all...the choice is mine!) |
| 02:03.08 | End | woot |
| 02:03.11 | End | I got in |
| 02:03.23 | Kaso | you on eu? |
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| 02:03.49 | yammygirlcoding | good evening all ! |
| 02:04.07 | yammygirlcoding | Cide!!! CT MAster!!! |
| 02:04.12 | End | moo |
| 02:04.18 | End | Kaso: no, us |
| 02:04.18 | AnduinLothar | hey! |
| 02:04.20 | Cide | hi... |
| 02:04.26 | AnduinLothar | moo is mine! |
| 02:04.28 | End | (or na or whatever you wanna call it) |
| 02:05.04 | yammygirlcoding | guys. I logged in an alt, and suddenly , the char came transparent, and the model textures got all white. Any idea where is the bug? Relog doesnt work either... |
| 02:05.22 | Kaso | deleted WDB :> |
| 02:05.24 | End | I had a similar issue a bit ago |
| 02:05.29 | AnduinLothar | wdb baweet |
| 02:05.30 | Kaso | delete even |
| 02:05.30 | Cide | delete WDB |
| 02:05.36 | End | except...not only was I invisible |
| 02:05.39 | yammygirlcoding | WDB clear my addons configs? |
| 02:05.41 | End | but I had a phantom item too |
| 02:05.42 | Cide | no |
| 02:05.44 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 02:05.46 | End | no, cached stuff |
| 02:05.57 | yammygirlcoding | what is stores? is harmless to delete then? |
| 02:05.58 | End | it'll just recreate it |
| 02:06.10 | End | it stores item/quest/mob/etc info from server |
| 02:06.29 | End | if it doesn't have it, it'll just ask for the information again, which is fine |
| 02:06.38 | yammygirlcoding | hmmm |
| 02:06.49 | End | (it'll just ask the server I mean) |
| 02:07.17 | yammygirlcoding | just delete and relog works, or should exit? |
| 02:07.26 | AnduinLothar | these scare me: http://bikeboardusa.com/ |
| 02:07.29 | Kirov | They're basically just cache files so that the game doesn't have to ask the server what something looks like or what kind of tooltip / price an item or beast has every time you see one. |
| 02:08.12 | yammygirlcoding | hmmm |
| 02:08.15 | Kirov | Anduin - so, it's a razor that won't cause you to do a face plant when you hit a pebble? |
| 02:08.25 | AnduinLothar | yeah lol |
| 02:08.44 | Kirov | Or a skateboard for the balance impared |
| 02:08.45 | AnduinLothar | they should put trick bars on the wheel |
| 02:08.49 | End | annd I went on the wrong zeppelin |
| 02:08.54 | End | goddammit |
| 02:08.58 | End | I need to pay attention |
| 02:09.16 | yammygirlcoding | anyone is a GuildMaster over there? I'm getting many errors of 'temporarily guild error' when i change people ranks. pretty annoying :[ |
| 02:09.21 | Kirov | Unicycles need to come back |
| 02:09.29 | Kirov | not that they were ever "in" |
| 02:10.21 | Kirov | yammy - If it's anything like mail errors, it's something that you're server is messing up with ... should be benign though |
| 02:11.27 | yammygirlcoding | it only happens when I try to change guidmates rankings. I change once, it works, but when I click again, it does 'temp guild error' again and again, and it backs to work when it wants :p |
| 02:12.32 | yammygirlcoding | this patch came with litle bugs everywhere :( the realmlist is takin forever to load :( |
| 02:14.36 | yammygirlcoding | no fix for that, there is? :( |
| 02:14.54 | Kaso | more of a server problem than a local i think |
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| 02:16.06 | yammygirlcoding | 2 minutes to enter charlist omfg |
| 02:17.37 | AnduinLothar | netsplit ya |
| 02:17.37 | AnduinLothar | y |
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| 02:18.26 | Gryphen | wee |
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| 02:39.30 | Kirkburn | Is there any reason why one might get a mail notification when one hasn't actually received any? |
| 02:39.42 | End | lag |
| 02:40.16 | Kirkburn | How could lag produce a false positive? |
| 02:40.30 | End | it might not be a false positive |
| 02:40.43 | End | it might just be taking a while to actually load the list of mail |
| 02:41.14 | Kirkburn | I sat there for five minutes :P |
| 02:41.30 | zespri_work | I have a mail envelope quite often after a collected all the mail. It jsut stays there and doesn't go away |
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| 02:53.31 | Tem | Iriel, you around? |
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| 03:40.00 | MentalPower | Cairenn: you around? |
| 03:41.46 | Cairenn | aye |
| 03:42.14 | MentalPower | this channel is still tagged as "talk only if you're regged" |
| 03:42.21 | MentalPower | [INFO]This channel requires that you have registered and identified yourself with the network's nickname registration services (e.g. NickServ). Please see the documentation of this network's nickname registration services that should be found in the MOTD (/motd to display it). |
| 03:42.22 | Cairenn | grrrrrrrr |
| 03:42.30 | Cairenn | damnit |
| 03:43.08 | Cairenn | okay, I'm going to have to track down a freenode staff member and find out how the heck to turn it off, since I've done everything I can find and it doesn't seem to be working. |
| 03:43.23 | Cairenn | sorry folks |
| 03:45.27 | kergoth | weird. makes it sound like it's mode +R, but i dont see that in /mode |
| 03:45.41 | Cairenn | yeah, I know |
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| 03:46.11 | Cairenn | I can't figure out what the heck is going on, and I'm just too darn tired to deal with it tonight |
| 03:46.11 | MentalPower | hmm... looks like calvino just died |
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| 03:46.36 | MentalPower | cair, take a deep breath and calm down :) |
| 03:46.45 | Cairenn | who isn't calm? |
| 03:47.05 | MentalPower | right |
| 04:15.46 | Tem | hmmm |
| 04:15.51 | Tem | I think it's Taco Bell time |
| 04:21.55 | Kaelten | gnight guys |
| 05:32.56 | Cairenn | okay, body informing me it's about to shut down and I can either still be sitting here or horizontal in my comfy bed ... night all |
| 05:33.03 | kergoth | night |
| 05:41.32 | Wobin | pity it's not comfy =( |
| 05:41.48 | Wobin | My couch is more comfortable than my bed =\ |
| 05:44.02 | kergoth | :( |
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| 06:02.21 | s|loup | hi |
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| 08:24.36 | AnduinLothar | moo |
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| 08:45.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Atog (n=Atog@195-144-094-012.stat.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 08:45.47 | Atog | Hi there. |
| 08:46.20 | Atog | I'm taking my first steps in writing a mod, can anyone point me to some good forums so I can research and browse? |
| 08:47.10 | krka|work | not forums but.... wowwiki.com and lua.org are good |
| 08:47.54 | Maldivia | Download the Interface Kit, and look at the tutorial it includes |
| 08:48.19 | Atog | thanks. Maldivia, is that the blizzard one? The download link was broken for me. |
| 08:48.37 | Maldivia | yes, the Blizzard one |
| 08:48.58 | Maldivia | http://www.blizzard.com/support/wow/?id=aww01671p |
| 08:49.58 | Atog | thanks! |
| 08:50.10 | Atog | *goes off to play with it* |
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| 09:14.23 | Atog | Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm trying to find out how to stop whispered keywords from showing up in my chat log. I know CTraid does this, but I've looked through their code and can't figure it out. |
| 09:16.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 09:18.25 | krka|work | CTRaid is probably not the best addon to look at for a beginner :P |
| 09:18.55 | krka|work | but here's how they do it basically (guessing a bit) |
| 09:19.27 | krka|work | they intercept the event that the normal chat windows receives, inspects the message, only forwards to the original receiver if it's ok |
| 09:20.37 | Atog | *nod* that's what I suspected too. |
| 09:21.09 | Atog | I'll mess about with it some more, thanks. |
| 09:26.51 | AnduinLothar | oi, you're recommending ctraid? |
| 09:26.59 | AnduinLothar | why not look at something a lot simpler? |
| 09:27.11 | Atog | no, he recommend against it |
| 09:27.17 | Atog | recommended, even |
| 09:27.21 | Atog | and with good reason :) |
| 09:27.21 | krka|work | l2r AnduinLothar :P |
| 09:27.44 | Atog | and I'm trying to find a simple mod that does this, but having no success. |
| 09:27.46 | AnduinLothar | missed the negative |
| 09:27.53 | AnduinLothar | does what? |
| 09:28.09 | Atog | removes whispers from my chatlog, if they match my keyword |
| 09:28.20 | AnduinLothar | y? |
| 09:28.43 | Atog | Right now, my mod works nice. It provides mob information on demand |
| 09:29.05 | Atog | people can whisper me !exp and if they're in my raid, I send them a list of abilities of their current target |
| 09:29.32 | AnduinLothar | oh, you want hedden chat comm? |
| 09:29.39 | Atog | indeed. |
| 09:29.57 | Atog | since this stuff is useful to them, but not to me |
| 09:30.16 | Atog | so I'm trying to make both the keyword they whisper, and the stuff I send them, to not show up in my chatlog. |
| 09:30.35 | AnduinLothar | Well I wrote Sky for such things |
| 09:30.50 | AnduinLothar | it's embeddable and can send hidden messages |
| 09:30.55 | Atog | I'm not familiar with Sky. |
| 09:31.01 | Atog | Let me look up what it does |
| 09:31.05 | Atog | thanks a lot. |
| 09:31.22 | AnduinLothar | www.wowwiki.com/Sky is the semi-complete docs |
| 09:32.01 | AnduinLothar | are you sending a lot of info or a little? |
| 09:32.13 | Atog | about 3 lines max. |
| 09:32.35 | Atog | on request, so shouldn't be a problem. |
| 09:32.55 | AnduinLothar | Sky can serialize and transmit lua tables for you if that's more convienient |
| 09:33.22 | AnduinLothar | Sky.sendTable |
| 09:33.43 | Atog | I see, I'm looking at the information right now |
| 09:33.47 | AnduinLothar | or individual msgs with Sky.sendMessage |
| 09:34.03 | AnduinLothar | for hidden whispers you would use SKY_PLAYER |
| 09:34.07 | AnduinLothar | as the 'system' |
| 09:34.16 | Atog | I see. |
| 09:34.29 | Atog | But that would require the other persons to have my addon as well, wouldn't it? |
| 09:34.49 | AnduinLothar | yes. is that not what you're lookign for? |
| 09:35.01 | Atog | no. |
| 09:35.15 | AnduinLothar | want it human readable? |
| 09:35.29 | Atog | yes, that's what it's supposed to do: |
| 09:35.44 | zenzelezz | do you want it to be hidden only on your computer? |
| 09:35.51 | Atog | yes. |
| 09:36.00 | Atog | CTRaid does this: |
| 09:36.06 | AnduinLothar | then you dont want sky |
| 09:36.25 | Atog | it does keyword inviting |
| 09:36.51 | Atog | but if someone whispers you the keyword, it won't show up in your chatlog (to prevent you from being swamped by everyone) |
| 09:37.08 | Atog | which is the functionality I need. |
| 09:37.50 | AnduinLothar | ah, ok. well there are a bunch of mods that do keyword inviting already... |
| 09:38.10 | zenzelezz | he doesn't want keyword inviting |
| 09:38.20 | zenzelezz | he wants to hide messages based on keyword |
| 09:38.21 | AnduinLothar | but if you wanted to hide a chat message you would eithe hook CHatFrame_OnEvent or all 7 ChatFrame.AddMessage functions |
| 09:38.22 | krka|work | invite people, not keywords! |
| 09:38.45 | Atog | *grin* |
| 09:39.01 | Atog | aha! |
| 09:39.26 | Atog | I'll try doing that. |
| 09:40.01 | Atog | I have no clue on how to do it yet, but now I know where to look! thanks, everyone. |
| 09:45.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-2-210.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:48.36 | Kaso | Anyone know if a guy called Henzo ever comes here? |
| 09:53.07 | zenzelezz | ~seen Henzo |
| 09:53.18 | purl | henzo <~nobody@24-116-151-98.cpe.cableone.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 707d 10h 16m 36s ago, saying: 'Guerin: No. That'd be a horrible assumption on my part for this channel.'. |
| 09:53.34 | Kaso | ooh, didnt know about that command |
| 09:53.38 | zenzelezz | not by that name at least, it would seem |
| 09:55.49 | Kaso | guess ill have to use worldofwar's PM system :< |
| 10:06.07 | Wobin | if he's only on worldofwar, he may not come here |
| 10:06.24 | Wobin | since this is the wowi-channel |
| 10:06.34 | Wobin | (which doesn't actually mean that much =P) |
| 10:15.32 | Atog | thanks everyone who helped me earlier, I figured it all out. |
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| 11:41.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge End-slee1 (n=end@72.25.151.58) |
| 11:43.45 | Wobin | Anyone here know the format for the CTRA raidtank table? |
| 11:44.05 | Wobin | is it just [1] MrTank, [2] MrsTank, [3] Tanklettes? |
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| 11:51.26 | Elkano | any bells ringing wrt to the term "eon8"? |
| 11:51.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem|Sleep (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
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| 11:52.15 | Kebinusan | I heard someone mention that earlier on ventrilo but I cant remember what its about |
| 11:53.13 | Elkano | some page with a count down timer that will expire tomorrow |
| 12:13.09 | mjc | anyone have a LUA language definition for textmate? |
| 12:13.23 | krka|work | textmate? |
| 12:14.09 | mjc | www.macromates.com |
| 12:16.06 | mjc | nvm, it comes with one, missed it in the list. heh |
| 12:28.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower__ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 12:37.00 | mjc | krka|work: http://mjc.325i.org/textmate.jpg |
| 12:37.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower__ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 12:37.33 | krka|work | does it support lua fully? |
| 12:37.43 | krka|work | and who the fuck codes with comic sans? O_o |
| 12:37.46 | krka|work | thats's just creepy |
| 12:38.23 | mjc | and yeah, it does |
| 12:38.38 | mjc | that's also not comic sans |
| 12:38.41 | krka|work | nested comments? |
| 12:38.46 | krka|work | try this: |
| 12:39.21 | krka|work | if x then --[[ comment [[ still a comment ]] comment still if then else bla bla ]] end |
| 12:39.52 | mjc | whole line is a comment after -- |
| 12:40.48 | krka|work | shouldn't be |
| 12:41.12 | krka|work | try this: --[[ comment]] if x then end |
| 12:41.49 | mjc | also a comment |
| 12:42.08 | krka|work | bad editor! |
| 12:43.02 | mjc | kremonte: lua 5.0.2 seems to treat it the same way |
| 12:43.36 | mjc | if x then -- comment [[ still a comment ]] comment still if then else bla bla end results in waiting for an end line |
| 12:44.08 | krka|work | doesn't to me |
| 12:44.29 | mjc | if you run /usr/bin/lua it doesn't exhibit this behavior? |
| 12:44.37 | krka|work | exactly |
| 12:44.58 | krka|work | if true then --[[ comment [[ still a comment ]] comment still if then else bla bla ]] print("hello") end |
| 12:45.20 | mjc | > if true then -- comment [[ still a comment ]] comment still if then else bla bla print("hello") end |
| 12:45.20 | mjc | >> |
| 12:45.28 | krka|work | > --[[ ]] print("hi") |
| 12:45.28 | krka|work | hi |
| 12:45.46 | krka|work | that's not what i wrote |
| 12:46.00 | krka|work | if true then --[[ comment [[ still a comment ]] comment still if then else bla bla ]] print("hello") end |
| 12:46.55 | mjc | my irc client is taking out the [[ ]] |
| 12:47.04 | mjc | double brackets |
| 12:47.10 | mjc | wikipedia plugin :P |
| 12:47.39 | krka|work | if true then --[ [ comment [ [ still a comment ] ] comment still if then else bla bla ] ] print("hello") end |
| 12:48.09 | mjc | > if true then --[ [ comment [ [ still a comment ] ] comment still if then else bla bla ] ] print("hello") end |
| 12:48.09 | mjc | >> |
| 12:49.00 | mjc | this is lua 5.0.2 from lua.org |
| 12:49.06 | mjc | broken programmer? |
| 12:49.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.219.207) |
| 12:51.38 | krka|work | i assume you removed the spacing between brackets |
| 12:51.49 | mjc | yes |
| 12:51.53 | krka|work | weird |
| 12:52.02 | mjc | broken programmer |
| 12:53.04 | mjc | oh! |
| 12:53.19 | mjc | no I misread you cause of the damn wikipedia thing... god it's sometimes useful sometimes useless >_> |
| 12:53.35 | mjc | > if true then --[[comment[[still a comment]] if then else blah blah]] print('hello') end |
| 12:53.35 | mjc | hello |
| 12:53.48 | mjc | which also works in textmate |
| 12:53.49 | krka|work | and in the editor? |
| 12:53.56 | krka|work | cool |
| 12:54.16 | krka|work | only this is comment-colored? --[[comment[[still a comment]] if then else blah blah]] |
| 12:54.30 | mjc | screenshot incoming |
| 12:55.24 | mjc | http://mjc.325i.org/textmate.jpg again |
| 12:55.31 | krka|work | ah, it fails |
| 12:55.39 | mjc | hm |
| 12:55.43 | krka|work | crap editor :P |
| 12:55.59 | mjc | crap parsing rule |
| 12:56.08 | krka|work | true |
| 12:56.14 | krka|work | can't be handled by a regexp though |
| 12:56.24 | mjc | it's a stylesheet thing |
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| 13:24.46 | Wobin | netcurse: You about? |
| 13:26.11 | Wobin | Or any other Curse admin if they're available? |
| 13:28.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-48-172.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:30.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc2-cmbg6-0-0-cust566.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:33.03 | Legorol | good afternoon |
| 13:33.12 | krka|work | morning |
| 13:33.13 | Legorol | I have a mathematical question about game mechanics. |
| 13:33.23 | Cairenn|sleep | error |
| 13:33.33 | Legorol | There are a number of abilities and effects in game that "increase attack speed by X%" |
| 13:33.39 | Josh|Gone | morning |
| 13:33.40 | Cairenn|sleep | who said anything about "good' ;p |
| 13:33.44 | Legorol | how is this exactly interpreted? I can see two ways |
| 13:33.51 | Legorol | hi Cairenn|sleep, grumpy today? :) |
| 13:34.18 | Kirkburn | How is this even possible? http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=2802 |
| 13:34.25 | Cairenn|sleep | no, still 3/4 asleep and not at all ready to be vertical yet. thinking more horizontal time may be a plan |
| 13:34.37 | Legorol | sounds good |
| 13:34.40 | Legorol | so i am thinking that this X% can mean two things: |
| 13:34.48 | krka|work | my guess is that it's speed = 1 / ((1 / speed) * (1 + X)) |
| 13:34.49 | Kirkburn | Too ... much ... trigonometry ... |
| 13:34.53 | Legorol | the "speed" value of the weapon is reduced by X% |
| 13:34.57 | krka|work | where x is a number between 0 and 1 |
| 13:35.02 | Legorol | ok let me digest that |
| 13:35.15 | krka|work | speed = time between hits |
| 13:35.18 | Legorol | yes |
| 13:35.23 | Legorol | 1/speed is hitrate |
| 13:35.33 | Legorol | so you are saying that it's the hitrate that's increased by X% |
| 13:35.35 | krka|work | yeah, and it's the hitrate that's get improved |
| 13:35.39 | krka|work | i guess :) |
| 13:35.42 | krka|work | but it's just guessing |
| 13:35.47 | Legorol | that was going to be one of my two guesses |
| 13:36.11 | Kirkburn | Say attack speed was increased by 100% ... that would be twice the number of hits. |
| 13:36.29 | Legorol | hm, i agree with Kirkburn, that's what you would expect by common sense |
| 13:36.32 | Kirkburn | 50% = 1.5 times the number I guess |
| 13:36.34 | Legorol | so they have to increase hitrate by X |
| 13:36.53 | Legorol | it's just so badly worded imo |
| 13:36.53 | Cairenn|sleep | Kirkburn: I've no idea how it's even possible, since I don't mess around with things that are blatantly not permitted by WoW. My question would be, "what on earth is ui.wow doing allowing it on their site since it is obviously against Blizzard's rules?" |
| 13:37.06 | krka|work | should be easily tested lego |
| 13:37.07 | Kirkburn | Indeedy |
| 13:37.13 | Legorol | given that there is a game mechanic that is labelled as "speed", it is silly to label an ability as increasing "speed" by X% |
| 13:37.20 | Legorol | considering they mean two different speeds |
| 13:37.35 | Cairenn|sleep | this statement by the author not withstanding: "Finally, and most importantly, I am against the hacking of World of Warcraft. This mod complies with the ToS and does not make use of 3rd party applications." |
| 13:37.36 | Legorol | although the fault is with labelling a quantity that is actually a time interval as "speed" in the first place |
| 13:38.38 | Wobin | Does Curse Gaming check all uploads now? |
| 13:38.52 | krka|work | whoa... weird |
| 13:38.56 | krka|work | that can't work |
| 13:39.00 | krka|work | can't cast spells without keypresses |
| 13:39.03 | krka|work | or mouseclicks |
| 13:39.04 | Legorol | it can with key generator |
| 13:39.13 | Wobin | It queues them up |
| 13:39.14 | krka|work | says no thirdp arty? |
| 13:39.20 | Legorol | Cairenn|sleep: the thing is *technically* all those mods totally abide by the ToU and EULA |
| 13:39.20 | Wobin | and then you hammer the keyboard and it does the actions |
| 13:39.24 | Legorol | albeit not the spirit of the game |
| 13:39.31 | Legorol | krka: it does not *include* a 3rd party app |
| 13:39.36 | Legorol | it's up to you to find one i guess ;-) |
| 13:39.41 | Wobin | It's like that movie they made with the autowalk addon |
| 13:39.42 | Kirkburn | I PMed Rushster about it to say it's rather dubious |
| 13:39.42 | Legorol | This is a problematic situation |
| 13:39.46 | Cairenn|sleep | Legorol: that as may be, how the hell does it work "within the rules" |
| 13:39.52 | Legorol | the AddOn in and of itself does not allow you to bot |
| 13:39.54 | Wobin | Where they hooked up a fan to bash at the spacebar key to get the thing moving |
| 13:39.56 | Legorol | it needs an extra component |
| 13:40.01 | Kirkburn | It allows botting though |
| 13:40.09 | Legorol | it's part of a bot, not a complete bot |
| 13:40.11 | Legorol | it has a missing part |
| 13:40.13 | Kirkburn | Or perhaps, it facilited it |
| 13:40.17 | Kirkburn | *facilitates |
| 13:40.23 | krka|work | and if you disable this, do you have to disable all whispercasting? |
| 13:40.23 | Legorol | the user only violates the rules when he adds the missing part |
| 13:40.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Thrae (n=spamrece@c-69-250-48-44.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:40.40 | Cairenn|sleep | reading the comments is interesting |
| 13:40.47 | Legorol | it's a bit like selling a car to someone without a licence |
| 13:40.53 | Legorol | unfortunately, that's legal |
| 13:40.56 | Kirkburn | Perhaps, but the problem is, those kinds of addons are what makes the UI more restrictive |
| 13:41.03 | Legorol | if the person drives without a licence, then they break the law |
| 13:41.04 | Cairenn|sleep | Kirkburn: that too |
| 13:41.13 | Legorol | i agree |
| 13:41.16 | Legorol | i also am not naive |
| 13:41.25 | Legorol | i completely understand that this addon is against the *intent* Blizzard had |
| 13:41.28 | Legorol | that is clear as day |
| 13:41.51 | krka|work | if for one applaud the addon for being so controversial |
| 13:41.57 | krka|work | s/if/i/ |
| 13:42.36 | Legorol | krka: yeah we all know you love controversial addons ;-) |
| 13:42.37 | Thrae | http://pastebin.ca/75704 <-- am I stupid today, what's wrong with this array? |
| 13:42.37 | Kirkburn | Why? |
| 13:42.51 | Legorol | Kirkburn: because it always forces blizzard to take a step to limit or clarify grey areas |
| 13:42.53 | Kirkburn | Controversial addons ruin the UI for other authors |
| 13:43.00 | Legorol | yes they do, to some extent |
| 13:43.06 | Legorol | but they also force clarification |
| 13:43.27 | Kirkburn | Yes, but if they didn't exist there wouldn't be a need for clarification :P |
| 13:43.45 | Cairenn|sleep | yeah, because goodness forbid that folks use common sense /sarcasm off |
| 13:43.48 | krka|work | this forces blizzard to consider stuff like whispercasting |
| 13:44.04 | Thrae | To jump into this discussion, Legorol, doesn't the complete Khaos include at least one controversial addon? |
| 13:44.07 | krka|work | this one is pretty difficult to stop i guess |
| 13:44.12 | Legorol | Cairenn|sleep: i'm afraid i don't quite agree with you on this one |
| 13:44.15 | Kirkburn | Thrae, which? |
| 13:44.18 | Legorol | people will never be able to use common sense |
| 13:44.21 | krka|work | maybe by adding delays to chat / limit chat frequency |
| 13:44.35 | Legorol | the clearer Blizzard is, and the tighter the control is, the better it is for the masses |
| 13:44.52 | Legorol | btw, it is clear as day the author knows what a fine line he is threading |
| 13:45.01 | Kebinusan | how does twoboxing hurt the masses exactly |
| 13:45.12 | Legorol | and he is doing exactly what you'd expect: defending it by saying it uses same mechanics as decursive |
| 13:45.13 | Kebinusan | for the sake of argument here |
| 13:45.16 | Legorol | which is a fair point |
| 13:45.26 | krka|work | Thrae, wrong syntax |
| 13:45.28 | Legorol | if this clonebot forces Blizz to finally do something about all Decursive type addons, i'll be very happy |
| 13:45.39 | krka|work | you need ["blabla"] = instead of "blabla" = |
| 13:45.41 | Legorol | Kebinusan: it's not twoboxing that's unfair |
| 13:45.43 | Legorol | it's botting :) |
| 13:46.07 | Kirkburn | Genius name he chose |
| 13:46.09 | Thrae | Kebinusan: Because a MMORPG shouldn't be about how much money you can invest in it, at least not WoW. |
| 13:46.14 | Kirkburn | "CloneBOT" :/ |
| 13:46.15 | Kebinusan | as a warlock I hate decursive and the current mechancis that allow them to jsut spam it and not waste mana if there is nothign to dispel |
| 13:47.07 | Thrae | krka|work: Oh yeah, stupid me. This is what I get for coding until 3am. |
| 13:47.11 | Kirkburn | Backing up Thrae's point ... it is a stated aim by the WoW devs that the wealth of a player should not affect a character in-game |
| 13:47.12 | krka|work | i will start naming all my addons bot and/or hack |
| 13:47.29 | krka|work | FAIAP -> SyntaxHackBot |
| 13:48.01 | Legorol | krka, excellent idea! |
| 13:48.04 | Thrae | Kebinusan: But it is true that some bosses seem to be balanced FOR addons like Decursive, or players with VERY low latency and pretty quick reflexes. |
| 13:48.25 | Legorol | actually, that change Blizzard made surprised me.. |
| 13:48.29 | krka|work | Thrae, took me a while to catch the error :) |
| 13:48.44 | Legorol | didn't they change it in a recent patch so that if you try to disple and there is nothing to dsiple you dont waste mana? |
| 13:48.48 | krka|work | yeah |
| 13:48.54 | Legorol | isn't that completely silly to do? |
| 13:48.54 | Kirkburn | They did? |
| 13:48.55 | zenzelezz | well, they wouldn't be bosses if they were pushovers |
| 13:48.57 | Legorol | it makes decursive better |
| 13:49.07 | Legorol | Kirkburn: yeah i think 1.8, 1.9 or 1.10 |
| 13:49.10 | krka|work | but it makes non-decursive user much better |
| 13:49.21 | Legorol | hmm |
| 13:49.26 | krka|work | the gap gets smaller with that fix, imo |
| 13:49.28 | Kebinusan | but hit hurts debuff classes |
| 13:49.32 | Legorol | i guess decursive can already coded to not decurse if not needed |
| 13:49.36 | krka|work | exactly |
| 13:49.38 | Legorol | i see your point |
| 13:49.44 | krka|work | i assumed it was |
| 13:49.51 | Thrae | zenzelezz: We're talking lag and reflexes though, those aren't necessarily up to the player. |
| 13:49.56 | Kebinusan | dots need an ability to resist dispel |
| 13:50.08 | Legorol | that won't solve the problem imo |
| 13:50.15 | Kebinusan | debuffs in general actually |
| 13:50.16 | zenzelezz | Thrae: I saw your point, but don't agree that it's all about that |
| 13:50.37 | Legorol | btw, am I the only one that has this image of Blizz game designers sitting in their office for the past year and a half, scratching their heads: |
| 13:50.44 | Legorol | "omg, what have we done, what will we do about auto-casting"? |
| 13:50.57 | Legorol | i mean buff, decusrive and other addons of the type |
| 13:51.04 | Legorol | i think they are in deep trouble :) |
| 13:51.44 | Legorol | This addons alter the balance of the game, and at the moment nothing they can do about it |
| 13:51.48 | krka|work | it's their own fault for making a game system that is so easily automated, to some extent |
| 13:51.55 | Kebinusan | here is a good example of an addon I thought was a very creative in its mechanic and very helpful to people without dual monitors: http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-3696-1-bgswitch.html |
| 13:51.57 | krka|work | other parts of the game are far less easy to automize |
| 13:52.02 | Thrae | One fix we could have to help deter Decurisve would be to make the especially dangerous Boss PvE debuffs have a second or two to start taking effect. |
| 13:52.07 | krka|work | there needs to be bigger tradeoffs for your actions |
| 13:52.09 | zenzelezz | I suppose I shouldn't be saying this in a mod development channel; but I'm the sort of player who prefers to keep things to a minimum - especially where mods do most of your dirty work |
| 13:52.28 | Cairenn|sleep | zenzelezz: why on earth shouldn't you say that in here? |
| 13:52.43 | zenzelezz | because many people in here make just that sort of mods; or so I thought |
| 13:52.58 | Thrae | Then the argument that Decursive mods are "necessary" would be less effective, as even the slower players could have time to dispel them. |
| 13:53.01 | krka|work | i only make mods that blizz would disapprove of |
| 13:53.24 | Cairenn|sleep | doesn't mean that they don't/won't appreciate the opportunity for a discussion on the topic |
| 13:53.34 | Kebinusan | I mostly use mods that replace ui elements that blizzard has no idea how to make properly |
| 13:53.37 | Thrae | zenzelezz: I think there's only one or two in here that make "questionable" mods :) |
| 13:53.50 | Cairenn|sleep | anyway, back in a while /wave |
| 13:53.53 | krka|work | only one or two? really? |
| 13:54.18 | zenzelezz | Thrae: probably not a majority at least ;) I just don't like starting arguments |
| 13:54.25 | zenzelezz | (I prefer joining) |
| 13:54.28 | Thrae | Although it depends on your definition of "questionable". Like I don't find "CorkFu" at all "questionable", which scans your party for what buffs and debuffs they need and lets you click on an icon to give it to them. |
| 13:54.34 | krka|work | i prefer ending them :) |
| 13:54.56 | zenzelezz | arguments never end, they just pause |
| 13:55.00 | zenzelezz | and recharge |
| 13:55.07 | Kebinusan | well the question is where do you draw the line |
| 13:55.14 | zenzelezz | aye |
| 13:55.25 | Thrae | One icon per buff or debuff needed per party or raid member |
| 13:55.40 | Thrae | I don't use the "pick the first need" option, I don't like that level of automation. |
| 13:55.42 | Kebinusan | take something like servitude, that allows you just click a button to use the right pet action for a given situation. This could just be seen as simplifying hotkeys |
| 13:55.51 | Kebinusan | ala decursive |
| 13:56.15 | Kebinusan | or something like manaconserve that would cancel a spell at the last possible second, something many of my guilds healers came to rely upon |
| 13:56.37 | zenzelezz | generally I'm not opposed to that sort of mods/help |
| 13:56.39 | krka|work | people could have problems with gatherer, ctra, auctioneer, mapcoords mods etc |
| 13:56.45 | krka|work | they all give advantages |
| 13:56.49 | zenzelezz | my Taunt macro checks if the target is already on me before casting Taunt |
| 13:56.52 | Kebinusan | hell thottbot |
| 13:56.52 | krka|work | even atlas |
| 13:56.59 | Kebinusan | allakzham |
| 13:57.02 | Thrae | zenzelezz: Yeah, that's about my limit too. |
| 13:57.33 | Thrae | Well krka|work, if you go down that road, we could say that we should all play like idiots because idiot players exist and pay for this game too. |
| 13:57.52 | krka|work | not really the same thing |
| 13:57.53 | Thrae | I think it's more sensible to just say mods that give extreme levels of automation are questionable |
| 13:57.56 | zenzelezz | to be honest, I think many of my "automation mods" views are highly skewed, seeing how I've never played any class past 15 except a warrior |
| 13:58.08 | krka|work | providing too much information is also a big help |
| 13:58.14 | zenzelezz | Thrae: aye, that's what I meant :) |
| 13:58.34 | Thrae | krka|work: Thottbot is really just a collection of information from players, the same information you can get in-game with enough social connections... |
| 13:58.38 | krka|work | i'd claim that giving players too much information is worse than automating |
| 13:58.43 | krka|work | way more powerful / useful atleast |
| 13:58.56 | Kebinusan | heh threatmeter? |
| 13:59.07 | zenzelezz | that depends on the type of information |
| 13:59.15 | Kebinusan | damageters is more harmful to my raids then it is helpful most of the time |
| 13:59.25 | krka|work | gatherer / map coords / thottbot / et.c. |
| 13:59.31 | krka|work | damagemeter doesn't give any advantage |
| 13:59.37 | Thrae | Kebinusan: "OMG LOOK AT THAT CRIT / MY DPS!!!11oneelven" ? |
| 13:59.45 | zenzelezz | my only "threat" meter is other people's health bars |
| 13:59.46 | zenzelezz | =D |
| 14:00.13 | Kebinusan | yeah thrae, I do run swstats most of the time in raids, simply so I can check and see things like, was that healer healing, etc |
| 14:00.52 | zenzelezz | damage meters aren't really bad, as long as you don't share the data with the rest |
| 14:00.56 | Kebinusan | well at least it came in useful for that, most of the time I dont check the damn thing it just eats up memory |
| 14:02.58 | Kebinusan | my biggest irk is boss mods at the moment... too many people rely on them as gods law instead of a little reminder |
| 14:03.08 | Kebinusan | at least in my guild it seems that way |
| 14:03.41 | zenzelezz | that's not very different from a bad PUG though |
| 14:03.49 | Kebinusan | <-- cries when someone doesnt watch the giant pupil powering up a dark glare |
| 14:04.07 | zenzelezz | doesn't matter if I say "attack the small dragons first" every five minutes after we enter UBRS, people still hit everything else |
| 14:04.34 | Kebinusan | true enough |
| 14:04.45 | Kebinusan | hey I pay my 15 bucks a month, dont tell me how to play :-P |
| 14:04.45 | zenzelezz | but I agree with your point |
| 14:05.11 | krka|work | sure, you can play however you want, but don't expect to play with any raiding guild with that attitude :P |
| 14:05.24 | krka|work | soloing at level 60 probably sucks :P |
| 14:05.25 | zenzelezz | just had a DPS warrior trying to teach me how to tank, telling me to use Sunder... apparently he doesn't know what the Sunder Armor icon looks like, or he didn't even check if it was on the mob |
| 14:05.57 | krka|work | maybe he disabled debuff icons, because those are practically cheating! |
| 14:06.00 | Kebinusan | heh we had a warrior who couldnt figure out how to taunt ebonroc |
| 14:06.11 | Kebinusan | :-/ longest fight ever |
| 14:06.26 | zenzelezz | is Ebonroc special? Never been to BWL |
| 14:06.37 | Josh|Gone | have to use a taunt rotation |
| 14:06.38 | Thrae | Warriors that can't taunt == very common =/ |
| 14:06.39 | Josh|Gone | otherwise he heals |
| 14:06.46 | zenzelezz | aha |
| 14:06.49 | Kebinusan | well he puts a debuff on the main tank that heals him every time he does damage to the target |
| 14:07.00 | Kebinusan | so if you dont do a taunt rotation... yeah bad thigns |
| 14:07.10 | zenzelezz | the DPS warrior couldn't even hold his add off of the rogue in Drakkisath's room... guess he didn't have (or know about) Mocking Blow |
| 14:07.13 | JoshBorke | my guild ended up doing a 2 tank taunt rotation last time =X |
| 14:07.31 | Kebinusan | ugh that had to be fun |
| 14:07.40 | zenzelezz | two rotations? |
| 14:07.51 | Thrae | Ever played in a Level 40+ PUG with a Warrior that never learned Taunt or Sunder Armour? |
| 14:07.54 | JoshBorke | we started with 5 :-X |
| 14:07.55 | Thrae | Yeah, that was fun. |
| 14:08.02 | zenzelezz | JoshBorke: ouch |
| 14:08.11 | JoshBorke | what about a ST run with a tank who left his shield in the bank? |
| 14:08.29 | zenzelezz | "I do more damage with a 2h!!" |
| 14:08.34 | Kebinusan | how about scholo with someone who stands in the disease cloud |
| 14:08.42 | Kebinusan | oh I remember when that thing actually used to hurt |
| 14:08.44 | Kebinusan | those were the days |
| 14:08.54 | zenzelezz | still hurts in the "right" teams |
| 14:09.01 | Thrae | No Taunt + No Sunder Armour <<<<<< No Shield ;) |
| 14:09.13 | Thrae | Even a Druid is a better tank then THAT. |
| 14:09.38 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 14:09.41 | zenzelezz | I'm so damn glad they fixed the ability-lock on fear... seeing your team wipe at Drakkisath because you can't use anything sort of sucked |
| 14:09.48 | JoshBorke | yea, i had to tell him to taunt =/ |
| 14:10.01 | Kebinusan | Ive just taken to kiting drak |
| 14:10.14 | Kebinusan | its sort of a game to see how low I can get him before I need to run him back |
| 14:10.49 | Thrae | In fact, I would say the average 30-55 Druid is better then the average 30-55 Warrior because even Feral Druids will learn how to heal, and therefore watch the status of party members. |
| 14:11.01 | JoshBorke | yea :-) |
| 14:11.11 | Kebinusan | <3 tanks who pull when the healer is oom |
| 14:11.13 | Thrae | All the armour, skills, and abilities in the world don't mean diddly if you don't know how to use them. |
| 14:11.35 | Thrae | Except for Shamans, they're easy mode :D |
| 14:13.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kaiden (n=kaiden@63.251.174.3) |
| 14:14.28 | kaiden | btw Kirkburn, that guys mod that you posted about the legality of, completely legal, blizzard has already stated that as long as he's not using third party apps, and everything requires someone there to push a button and or the use of a nostromo then all is legal |
| 14:14.44 | Kirkburn | Did I say it was illegal? |
| 14:15.06 | Kirkburn | I said it was against the spirit of the game, would be frowned upon by the devs, and will likely result in a more restrictive UI |
| 14:15.07 | kaiden | blizzard wont touch the nostromo thing because far too many people use it and they just state that if you are caught not at your computer while it's turned on there will be hell to pay :) |
| 14:15.37 | kaiden | i dont see how they can restrict the ui anymore than they already have and keep it functional |
| 14:15.38 | Kirkburn | Nostromo? |
| 14:16.44 | Kirkburn | Big point here is that, yes, if you're not at your computer, you will be banned |
| 14:16.59 | Kirkburn | CloneBot facilitates that |
| 14:17.34 | Kirkburn | If the players are fully in charge of their other char, then I see no problem |
| 14:18.14 | kaiden | clonebot does not make them any less in control than whispercast / decursive / smartbuff / quickheal / healer / genesis |
| 14:18.19 | zenzelezz | sooo... what's Nostromo? |
| 14:18.40 | kaiden | i can go on and on, all clonebot does, is allow a nostromo auto key to be spammed for a simple interface that does all of the things those addons do seperately |
| 14:18.58 | kaiden | nostromo is a programmable keypad like the g15 logitech keyboard |
| 14:19.04 | Kirkburn | Okies |
| 14:19.06 | zenzelezz | aha |
| 14:19.13 | kaiden | a 15 button device that allows you to do things like, turn a key on and have it repeatedly press until you turn it off |
| 14:19.26 | krka|work | clonebut could forward chat messages to the master :) |
| 14:19.29 | krka|work | and do replying |
| 14:19.33 | Kirkburn | As I said, if the player is not fully in charge of the alt ... |
| 14:19.34 | krka|work | that would rock |
| 14:19.45 | kaiden | i use it on my priest, yet i'm always at the computer so i dont see anything wrong with it, it helps me play my rogue and priest at the same time |
| 14:19.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:19.51 | kaiden | and makes the game more fun honestly |
| 14:20.55 | kaiden | i have a button on my nostromo programmed to function as a shift right click so i can just mouseover and press that button to loot / skin :) (oh yeah saves 1 mouse click but meh.. it's nice :)) |
| 14:21.16 | Kirkburn | In any case, my points stilll stand (against spirit of the game, devs unhappy, restrict UI) |
| 14:21.35 | Thrae | kaiden: But would you quit the game if you couldn't effectively play two accounts at the same time anymore? |
| 14:21.44 | kaiden | if it was against the spirit of the game it wouldn't be possible, whispercast has been around for EVER and blizzard has never said anything negative about it |
| 14:21.55 | kaiden | Thrae, honestly, yes |
| 14:22.04 | Kirkburn | Decursive is against the spririt of the game, AND Blizzard dislike it |
| 14:22.22 | Kirkburn | They have stated as much, and wish to disable it somehow |
| 14:22.24 | kaiden | there are far many more games out there that dont require me to play two characters that are nearly as fun |
| 14:22.38 | kaiden | whereas in wow... if you dont have a priest at 60 with you, there's not much you can do without alot of downtime |
| 14:22.53 | Kirkburn | Well I completely disagree with that |
| 14:23.06 | Kirkburn | But I'm a warlock =) |
| 14:23.12 | kaiden | then you dont count |
| 14:23.13 | kaiden | :P |
| 14:23.17 | kaiden | overpowered lock *frown* |
| 14:23.41 | kaiden | warlocks rock, wish i had made one in the beginning but oh well there's always time |
| 14:24.23 | kaiden | then again on top of it all, i'm a button masher, every class i play i make button scripts for to do everything from a central button |
| 14:24.36 | kaiden | most people think that makes you bad at a class, i think it makes me have to worry less about screwing up |
| 14:24.40 | Thrae | Feral Druids basically have no downtime either, although now that Druids have base Innervate, they might not have downtime either. |
| 14:24.41 | krka|work | yeah me too |
| 14:24.43 | kaiden | and more about the numbers floating above the mobs head |
| 14:25.15 | Kirkburn | kaiden, well, tbh, you're not making tactical decisions ... although you could describe your scripts as tactics |
| 14:25.23 | zenzelezz | I had a weird issue with CTRA today... somehow the channel broadcasts didn't seem to go through, and/so main tanks didn't get passed along either |
| 14:25.32 | kaiden | if they are situational i dont see how you could have anymore tactics put into it |
| 14:25.47 | zenzelezz | using 1.538; I know at least one of the other people who tried it also had latest |
| 14:25.52 | kaiden | you can make them so precise that before a real human ever even saw the beginning it would have done what it needed to |
| 14:26.34 | Cide | zenzelezz: get 1.539 |
| 14:26.42 | zenzelezz | already a new one? :-o |
| 14:26.53 | zenzelezz | but I guess I will, thanks |
| 14:27.22 | kaiden | Cide, btw, thanks a ton for the i guess it's an aggro / regeneration monitor? |
| 14:27.42 | Cide | hmm? :) |
| 14:27.46 | kaiden | the little <<< and >>> :) my raid last night noticed it after updating and all thought it was really cool |
| 14:27.54 | kaiden | beside the players names |
| 14:28.24 | Cide | hehe, not sure what you mean actually :) |
| 14:28.39 | Cide | could you describe the behavior? |
| 14:28.44 | kaiden | the little red <<<'s that appear whenever someone has aggro or is taking damage, not 100% sure what it monitors |
| 14:28.57 | Cide | don't think that's ctra actually |
| 14:29.05 | Cide | but I'm glad you liked it! |
| 14:29.10 | kaiden | hrm?.... wonder what could be adding that to the windows then |
| 14:29.12 | Kaso | ha ha |
| 14:29.18 | kaiden | it add's them directly to the ctra panels |
| 14:29.21 | Kebinusan | squishy does that I think |
| 14:29.24 | kaiden | ohhhh |
| 14:29.25 | Kebinusan | if you run it |
| 14:29.27 | kaiden | ok ;) |
| 14:29.37 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 14:29.40 | kaiden | well thank you squishy and cide :P |
| 14:29.46 | Cide | you're welcome! |
| 14:29.49 | Gngsk | <3 |
| 14:30.00 | kaiden | now the question is.. what the hell does it monitor |
| 14:30.02 | kaiden | lol |
| 14:30.32 | kaiden | i noticed they appear when the person has aggro, but when they go green and >>> i'm assuming that's health regeneration and no aggro |
| 14:32.07 | kaiden | Cide, one slight problem is with the ctmastermod placement of the minimap button, for those of us that move it, it moves fine and looks fine but when you click the button it tries to rehook to the minimap and gets all stretched out and weird lookin |
| 14:34.10 | Cide | hmm, I'll see if I can fix that |
| 14:34.34 | JoshBorke | ( kaiden ): when it's green that means a heal is incoming |
| 14:34.51 | JoshBorke | <><><> means they have aggro and a heal |
| 14:35.59 | kaiden | ah very cool |
| 14:38.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce4.disney.com) |
| 14:51.13 | Wobin | Heya Cide, the maintank table in CTRA is just [1] = "Mr Tank", [2] = "Mrs Tank" etc, isn't it? |
| 14:51.35 | Cide | yep |
| 14:51.42 | Wobin | woot |
| 14:51.44 | Wobin | easy =) |
| 15:00.50 | Kirkburn | How sexist, why not [1] = "Mrs Tank", [2] = "Mr Tank" =) |
| 15:11.05 | Kirkburn | to wow! |
| 15:11.15 | kaiden | lol |
| 15:13.40 | Kirkburn|wow | Muahaha, I reported someone's guild name :P |
| 15:14.37 | kaiden | what was it? |
| 15:14.49 | Kirkburn|wow | I didn't think "Mental Retardation" was that appropriate :) |
| 15:14.55 | kaiden | lol |
| 15:16.41 | Kaso | i reported "Salvia Divinorum" the other day |
| 15:17.43 | kaiden | why would you report that? |
| 15:17.51 | kaiden | isn't that Divine Salvation in latin? |
| 15:18.01 | Kaso | its a drug that's illegal in parts if europe. |
| 15:18.07 | Kaso | of |
| 15:18.20 | kaiden | ah yeah i've heard of that |
| 15:18.48 | Kaso | im 99% sure they didnt name it that after the latin quote :> |
| 15:21.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 15:24.00 | Wobin | ah |
| 15:24.03 | Wobin | but you can't prove it |
| 15:24.28 | kaiden | exactly ;P |
| 15:29.50 | Kirkburn|wow | Amazing, brand new server, 3 60s already :P |
| 15:30.52 | wereHamster | brand new.. how old? |
| 15:35.09 | kaiden | Kirkburn|wow, if you work it you can get to 60 in a few days |
| 15:35.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (n=Wobin@221.221.27.165) |
| 15:36.00 | kaiden | granted you'll be an insomniac zombie... with a bladder infection and burnt out eyeballs |
| 15:36.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower__ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 15:53.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mikk1 (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:54.06 | Mikk1 | ~seen Cairenne |
| 15:54.11 | purl | i haven't seen 'cairenne', Mikk1 |
| 15:54.15 | Mikk1 | ~seen Cairenn |
| 15:54.20 | purl | cairenn <n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 10h 21m 24s ago, saying: 'okay, body informing me it's about to shut down and I can either still be sitting here or horizontal in my comfy bed ... night all'. |
| 15:56.06 | Mikk1 | arf. and here i've finally fixed her AddOn FAQ. |
| 16:04.42 | Miravlix | Mmmm, I could get used to this 60 FPS in busy towns |
| 16:05.12 | Miravlix | Offcourse the game keeps dizzing me so I can''t play. :) |
| 16:05.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:05.27 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 16:06.02 | Mikk1 | Cairenn! |
| 16:06.05 | Mikk1 | You read my mind! |
| 16:06.08 | Cairenn | yo |
| 16:06.19 | Cairenn | I do? |
| 16:06.24 | Cairenn | did? |
| 16:06.25 | Mikk1 | http://www.wowwiki.com/UI_FAQ/AddOns |
| 16:06.37 | Mikk1 | I came on only 10 minutes ago complaining that you weren't here =) |
| 16:07.12 | Mikk1 | (I've updated quite a bit too that was severely out of date) |
| 16:07.21 | Cairenn | thanks |
| 16:07.47 | Tain | Mornin Cairenn |
| 16:07.52 | Cairenn | hi Tain |
| 16:08.00 | Miravlix | Hmm, what addons got broken lately so they do trigger a timeout disconnect by the server? |
| 16:08.22 | Tain | I was getting hung up trying to log in after the last patch. |
| 16:08.33 | Tain | Disabled all addons, logged in ok, started adding them back in bunches. |
| 16:08.42 | Tain | Got back to my full assortment of addons and logged in fine. |
| 16:08.47 | Tain | Was confused. |
| 16:08.47 | Cairenn | good to hear |
| 16:08.59 | Cairenn | Mikk1: thanks for your work on the FAQ |
| 16:09.00 | Tain | But I didn't have any problems since. |
| 16:09.33 | Mikk1 | I need to fix the macros bit too |
| 16:09.43 | Mikk1 | But the AddOns bit is (imo) mostly done |
| 16:10.25 | Cairenn | still waking up (again), will look through it in a bit |
| 16:10.48 | Mikk1 | aight =) |
| 16:11.05 | Cairenn | Although why my seal of approval is needed I'm not sure ... |
| 16:12.03 | Mikk1 | Because you asked me to do it? =) |
| 16:14.29 | Miravlix | It wont load my toon |
| 16:14.40 | Miravlix | I cleared wdb and is running without addons |
| 16:14.57 | Mikk1 | clear wtf too |
| 16:15.03 | Mikk1 | or move the folder |
| 16:15.07 | Miravlix | No freaking way |
| 16:15.13 | Mikk1 | just move the folder |
| 16:15.15 | Mikk1 | rename it |
| 16:15.22 | Miravlix | There is nothing in there |
| 16:15.27 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 16:15.40 | Miravlix | It just cleared settings because I'm on a new motherboard/video card |
| 16:16.01 | Miravlix | Go take a look for yourself there is nothing in wtf beyond config.wtf |
| 16:16.17 | Mikk1 | er. on my computer? there's gobs of stuff in there |
| 16:16.22 | Miravlix | People really need to investigate there suggestions |
| 16:16.45 | Mikk1 | if you've previously said that you've got a fresh install or something, I missed it. I just came on. |
| 16:17.57 | Mikk1 | C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\WTF>dir /S/W |
| 16:17.57 | Mikk1 | [barfage...] |
| 16:18.06 | Mikk1 | 899 File(s) 2 290 231 bytes |
| 16:18.09 | Mikk1 | 1049 Dir(/s) |
| 16:18.30 | Mikk1 | That's my WTF dir |
| 16:19.55 | Mikk1 | (99% of it being inside Account/ACCOUNTNAME/....) |
| 16:21.56 | Miravlix | Thats saved variables |
| 16:22.09 | Miravlix | I already said I went in without addons |
| 16:22.13 | Miravlix | so none of it is loaded |
| 16:22.27 | Miravlix | There is a few chat settings and layout files |
| 16:22.32 | Miravlix | + config.wtf |
| 16:25.24 | Miravlix | After erasing wdb 3 times it finally cleared enough to let me see my char. |
| 16:25.53 | End | hmm |
| 16:26.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (n=Wobin@221.221.19.255) |
| 16:26.16 | Miravlix | Must have messed up not getting out of WoW so it saved them again after I erased them or something |
| 16:26.18 | End | your char was invisible too? |
| 16:26.22 | Miravlix | Yes |
| 16:26.26 | Miravlix | Thats a wdb bug |
| 16:26.34 | End | weird, awful lot of people getting that lately |
| 16:26.56 | Miravlix | It's some cache mess up, been so for a long time. |
| 16:26.59 | End | my char was not only invisible last night, but I had an "phantom" item |
| 16:27.12 | Miravlix | I don't remember when I didn't see the cache trigger this |
| 16:27.24 | End | (although, clearing my WDB fixed it right away) |
| 16:29.18 | Miravlix | 10 mouse buttons is fun, but not in wow, doesn't reconice any of them. :/ |
| 16:30.10 | End | hmm |
| 16:30.26 | End | I know it recognizes half that many |
| 16:30.52 | End | (and I know someone with 8 mouse buttons that all work...) |
| 16:31.17 | Miravlix | I can remap them to keys |
| 16:51.35 | Miravlix | I'm tempted to convert this Windows Dual Core rig to Linux, the effect on windows is just insane and with Linux improved efficency it would be out of this world. |
| 16:53.52 | End | do it! |
| 16:54.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (n=Wobin@221.221.19.255) |
| 16:55.45 | Miravlix | I'm to lazy to bother with the trouble of running WoW in wine. :P |
| 16:56.01 | Miravlix | And I have 2 Linux machines at home + one hosted already |
| 16:58.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-165.handshake.de) |
| 16:59.01 | Miravlix | Only one snag left my 5.1 sound system is broken, I bought the Logitech z-5450 with wireless rear speakers and the rear speakers aint working. |
| 17:17.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@204.90.50.252) |
| 17:28.03 | Kaso | Would it be possible to make a "psuedo" channel so that if i do /fred it'll switch to Fred: like /say does |
| 17:29.24 | Mikk1 | stick whispers you mean? |
| 17:29.25 | Elkano | could be with some hooking |
| 17:29.25 | Dagen | yeah, /query basically does that |
| 17:29.27 | Mikk1 | sticky* |
| 17:29.43 | Dagen | wait |
| 17:29.47 | Dagen | you talking about wow or irc? |
| 17:29.51 | Kaso | wow |
| 17:29.55 | Dagen | oh, nevermind :P |
| 17:30.13 | Kaso | yeh i mean like that mikk1 |
| 17:30.14 | Mikk1 | should be possibly to hack into chatframes to make whispers sticky |
| 17:30.39 | Mikk1 | adding slash commands for player names sounds a bit iffy though |
| 17:30.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 17:30.44 | Kaso | nono |
| 17:30.49 | Kaso | its not whisper |
| 17:30.56 | Kaso | basically |
| 17:31.19 | Kaso | my new guilds addon has like all the class channels running via one channel so it has pseudo channels |
| 17:31.33 | Mikk1 | o |
| 17:31.34 | Kaso | but when you type /priest it doesnt sticky like a proper channel |
| 17:31.38 | Kaso | i want to make it do that |
| 17:31.43 | Mikk1 | look at StickyChats |
| 17:31.51 | Mikk1 | should provide a clue or two |
| 17:31.57 | Kaso | thanks |
| 17:33.11 | Dagen | you know how loot link has some new feature to clean up invalid entries? I ran that on my database and I think it nuked a lot of valid ones :P |
| 17:33.27 | Kaso | its a silly addon tbh, it base 64 encodes all the channel traffic, thus increasing traffic by like 40% and yet doing not much as the decoder is built into the addon and would take someone 10sec of coding to translate the channel to cleartext |
| 17:33.49 | Mikk1 | hahaha base64 |
| 17:33.53 | Shadowed | This sounds like a bad case of "Doing it because you can" when it's pointless beyond reason |
| 17:34.02 | Mikk1 | yeah, like how HTTP Basic auth is "Encrypted" according to various web sites =P |
| 17:34.29 | Thrae | Dagen: Try KC_Items, it's got a pretty good database system along with pruning. |
| 17:34.37 | Dagen | oh ya? |
| 17:34.40 | Shadowed | Kaso: I recommend doing something to let you read all of the channels, and use it until you can get them to change it |
| 17:34.46 | Dagen | I heard of it, but never tried it out |
| 17:34.53 | Thrae | Dagen: KC_Items database is usually 1/10th the size of LootLink, along with its memory usage. |
| 17:35.17 | Thrae | KC_Items also includes Auctioneer-style data too, and Auctioneer-style functionality. |
| 17:35.33 | Dagen | thing is, I already have a decent sized loot link database.. I'd hate to start over again =( |
| 17:35.57 | Dagen | unless you can import the items from lootlink somehow? =D |
| 17:36.22 | Thrae | Kaso: Unless you obsfucate the Lua script itself, you should just use ROT-13 encryption. |
| 17:36.31 | Dagen | because I have stuff in my lootlink you just dont see every day...like game master's robes! |
| 17:36.38 | Kaso | Shadowed: Ha, well its really designed to keep external snoopers out i think we're free to view other classes channels, but i was thinking of re-coding it so that it uses some sort of private key encrpytion hiding the key in the Guild Info tab and then sending the code to the gmaster, he'd be stupid not to take my system which would be A) More secure and b) Less traffic |
| 17:36.50 | Thrae | Dagen: Haha, don't know if it has the ability to import from LootLink. |
| 17:37.21 | Thrae | Dagen: Ask Kaelten, he made it. |
| 17:37.44 | Dagen | oh, cool |
| 17:38.02 | Shadowed | Kaso: I've never really found external people viewing the channel to be an issue, you can always just add a password or worst case somebody joins the channel you can always ban them from it. |
| 17:38.19 | Dagen | I'll grab it anyway I guess |
| 17:38.33 | Thrae | Though adding a feature like "import your data from xx mod!" is always iffy, since it might upset the original coder. |
| 17:38.37 | Kaso | I've never noticed it being a problem either, but apparently he must be the paranoid sort |
| 17:38.57 | Thrae | Kaso: He probably uses it as his personal group cyber channel ;) |
| 17:39.00 | Shadowed | It's amusing that he chose base64 to prevent that though |
| 17:39.08 | Kaso | haha |
| 17:40.19 | Kaso | ive never really looked into encoding or encrpyting much before, but as far as i can see base 64 has no more beifits than a ROT system but increases the traffic a fair bit |
| 17:40.41 | Shadowed | Can you even base64 in WoW? |
| 17:41.32 | Kaso | http://pastebin.ca/75861 |
| 17:41.38 | Kaso | thats what he did |
| 17:42.09 | Shadowed | well he must have been bored |
| 17:44.56 | Mikk1 | The one benefit (or problem) with base64 encoding the network traffic is that you're able to insert color codes and have them displayed at the other end |
| 17:45.06 | Mikk1 | Normally, the game would kick you out if you tried that over chat |
| 17:45.12 | Elkano | \o/ semi finals |
| 17:46.01 | Shadowed | Random color text! |
| 17:46.11 | Kaso | aah |
| 17:47.52 | Kaso | lemme test sending a colour text down the channel |
| 17:48.19 | Industrial | Need help getting ym hp bar to actually work. http://pastebin.ca/75863 |
| 17:48.25 | Industrial | its not doing anything atm |
| 17:48.26 | Industrial | :P |
| 17:55.35 | Kaso | ha colour codes work, that owns |
| 18:01.18 | Mikk1 | Another thing will be that you're able to link items that the server hasn't seen yet without getting kicked out. |
| 18:01.30 | Mikk1 | The PROBLEM is that the server won't be helpful and pass item data to the client |
| 18:01.42 | End | will it work while drunk? |
| 18:01.49 | Mikk1 | So if you're sending an unseen link to someone who doesn't have it in his cache.... urmmm... |
| 18:01.54 | Industrial | anyone? |
| 18:01.59 | Mikk1 | End: drunk doesn't affect regular channels does it? |
| 18:02.10 | End | I think it does, not sure though |
| 18:02.12 | Mikk1 | err numbered channels i mean |
| 18:02.19 | Shadowed | Mikk1: But you can't send whole links to custom channels anyway, just the name |
| 18:02.20 | End | iirc, ctraid has a bunch of code to compensate for that |
| 18:02.39 | End | replacing s with $ or something like that mostly |
| 18:02.47 | Mikk1 | Shadowed: With this system, you can. |
| 18:03.36 | Shadowed | Mikk1: Ah oops, misread what you said |
| 18:03.46 | Shadowed | Though you said it would be a problem, was trying to figure out how :p |
| 18:03.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:04.26 | Shadowed | it does |
| 18:04.30 | Mikk1 | sh*t |
| 18:05.09 | Shadowed | Just make the mod prevent you from drinking! |
| 18:05.13 | Mikk1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:05.20 | End | yeah |
| 18:05.26 | End | you can't always control your drunkeness |
| 18:12.26 | Tem | $ |
| 18:12.44 | Tem | that's what CTRA does, iirc |
| 18:13.02 | End | yeah |
| 18:13.11 | Cide | yup |
| 18:13.17 | Cide | S to $, s to § |
| 18:17.29 | Tem | lol. I love when I see a screenshot of peoples' interface and they have a macro labled "shit" |
| 18:18.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:24.01 | Dagen | I really hate how linking items can disconnect you |
| 18:25.00 | End | especially when they are in your inventory ;p (yes, I'm referencing my wdb corruption issue last night) |
| 18:25.10 | kergoth | ouch |
| 18:25.13 | Elkano | Oo |
| 18:25.17 | Dagen | yeah, its deciding to disconnect me when linking frostfire items |
| 18:25.20 | zenzelezz | <Mikk1> It's easy to say "Don't drink" but ... erm.. spiders in ZG and whatnot <--- I had a team member wanting to relog in a normal DM north run once after we fought The Drunk guy |
| 18:25.25 | zenzelezz | she thought her game was messed up |
| 18:25.32 | End | lol |
| 18:26.42 | kergoth | hahah |
| 18:27.15 | wereHamster | I'm using braille characters in CommChannel to substitute S/s ;) |
| 18:28.03 | Dagen | I always thought it would be funny in a raid to set CT_Raid's channel to some class channel and broadcast it :P |
| 18:28.52 | Dagen | if only you could see the confusion on their faces when all that crap gets sent over their class channel hehehe |
| 18:30.57 | Mikk1 | Then again I might just use some light escaping mechanism. URL encoding perhaps. |
| 18:31.11 | zenzelezz | Base-64! |
| 18:31.33 | Mikk1 | Bit manipulations suck in Lua =P |
| 18:31.46 | kergoth | bitlib isnt -that- bad |
| 18:32.03 | kergoth | but yeah, not exactly as easy as having the operators built into the language |
| 18:32.14 | Mikk1 | Nah. Except standard Lua doesn't ship with bitlib so WoWBench would barf =P |
| 18:32.38 | kergoth | so ship bitlib, or force people to install it :) |
| 18:32.41 | kergoth | luaforge is our friend |
| 18:33.32 | Mikk1 | I'm half tempted to try and run it under LuaJIT |
| 18:33.40 | Mikk1 | *wroom* *wroom* |
| 18:33.49 | Mikk1 | Except LuaJIT is 5.1 =( |
| 18:33.57 | kergoth | hm? theres a luajit for 5.0. |
| 18:34.03 | kergoth | it was just ported forward |
| 18:34.45 | Mikk1 | o |
| 18:35.58 | Mikk1 | Arf? "IUP"? |
| 18:36.49 | zenzelezz | "The magistrate called the lack of evidence inexcusable. She further likened their claims to a shoplifter being handed a catalog for a store after being stopped, and being told 'what you took is in there somewhere, figure it out.'" -- neat judge |
| 18:38.55 | Mikk1 | Is this SCO? |
| 18:39.46 | Fanook | yeah |
| 18:40.03 | Dagen | does WoW store some kind of playerID somewhere that I can retrieve? =/ |
| 18:40.40 | Shadowed | player name is the closet you can get if i remember right |
| 18:40.59 | Shadowed | s/player name/player name + server name/ |
| 18:41.14 | Dagen | bleh.. I need a unique id of some sort based on player name and server name, preferrably a number :P |
| 18:41.22 | zenzelezz | why? |
| 18:42.07 | Dagen | arent numbers more efficient to use as keys into databases? |
| 18:42.55 | Fanook | yes, but we don't have access to any numerical ID WoW happens to be using |
| 18:43.01 | Dagen | I dunno, I guess I could just append the realm name to a player name and use that |
| 18:43.08 | Dagen | yeah, thats basically what I was wondering |
| 18:43.37 | Dagen | I didnt know if there was a way to get a numerical ID or not |
| 18:43.39 | Kaso | Convert each charater of the realm and player to the char code and use that |
| 18:43.44 | kergoth | Dagen: no, numbers arent much more efficient for lua tables, if they are at all. |
| 18:43.44 | Kaso | :> |
| 18:44.28 | Cide | hash tables are larger than "array"-style tables |
| 18:44.38 | Dagen | well, its not exactly the lua table I'm concerned about... all the data I'm storing from the lua tables is going to be imported into a mysql dataase |
| 18:44.42 | Dagen | *database |
| 18:45.02 | kergoth | Cide: well yeah. i got the impression he meant lookup time, for some reason |
| 18:45.50 | Dagen | oh well, I guess I'll just use a string |
| 18:45.52 | Cide | not a very noticable difference in time, then :) |
| 18:46.07 | Dagen | unless hmmm |
| 18:46.50 | Dagen | I could possibly some kind of auto-increment |
| 18:50.15 | Industrial | http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php/topic,1634.0.html |
| 18:51.07 | Mikk1 | Unless you're doing some realtime type thing or a website that you expect to get hundreds of thousands of hits a day, I wouldn't worry too much tbqph =P |
| 18:51.34 | Dagen | yeah probably right |
| 18:51.49 | kergoth | have a question for the rogues in the chan.. my 55 rogue is currently spec'd like http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecoxZhfi00ezZV0x , combat daggers, focused on high white damage for raids.. but i'm thinking about switching to a seal fate build, ala http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fheMoxxotGcZV0x0b .. without precision, probably a bit less damage output in raids, but more versatile.. opinions? |
| 18:52.03 | Dagen | thing is I already set up my table to use numerical IDs and I just dont wanna change it :P |
| 18:52.47 | Mikk1 | See? SQL is evil ;) |
| 18:53.38 | Dagen | I use seal fate for my rogue.. from what I heard from other rogues, combat daggers requires really good gear/daggers to be effective |
| 18:53.44 | Mikk1 | yes |
| 18:53.47 | Mikk1 | epic daggers |
| 18:53.56 | Mikk1 | blue dagger white damage blows |
| 18:54.02 | Mikk1 | you want swords for that, really |
| 18:54.55 | kergoth | hmm, makes sense. i think i'd like a seal fate build, quick combo point generation. i think i'll miss dagger spec and blade flurry, but.. |
| 18:54.56 | Tain | I still prefer swords for raids. |
| 18:55.25 | Tain | Blade flurry is mainly usefull levelling in my opinion, very dangeorus to your health in raids |
| 18:55.27 | Mikk1 | swords work well in 40mans since you can keep SnD up all the time, etc |
| 18:55.39 | Tain | I aboslutely love Blade Flurry mind you, but wouldn't use it in raids. |
| 18:55.40 | Mikk1 | though daggers omfgpwn at Vaelstrasz =) |
| 18:56.07 | Mikk1 | *backstab* *backstab* *backstab* *backstab* *backstab* *backstab* *backstab* *backstab* *backstab* *backstab* |
| 18:56.20 | Dagen | almost all our rogues in our guild have blade flurry, but yeah.. they can basically only use it in certain situations |
| 18:56.29 | kergoth | i'm a troll... and i just looove blade flurry + berserking + s&d |
| 18:56.36 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 18:56.52 | Tain | Levelling Blade FLurry is incomparible. |
| 18:56.56 | Tain | Can just destroy stuff. |
| 18:57.02 | Tain | And 60 second cooldown? That's nuts. |
| 18:57.08 | kergoth | yeah, can easily pull and annihilate multiple mobs at a time with it |
| 18:57.12 | kergoth | speeds grinding |
| 18:57.20 | Dagen | I levelled my rogue with an ambush/backstab build |
| 18:57.22 | Mikk1 | from what i've been told by a certain rogue in our guild that to date has blown something like 1500 gold trying different specs, seal fate is mostly a PvP thing. not so great for PvE |
| 18:57.45 | Dagen | was still the easiest character I've had to level |
| 18:58.01 | kergoth | hmmmm |
| 18:58.22 | Dagen | seal fate is good for pve if you dont have really good gear though |
| 18:59.25 | Dagen | I always thought ambush/backstab was good for pvp? |
| 18:59.49 | Mikk1 | did anyone say otherwise? o.O |
| 19:00.04 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:00.24 | Dagen | well, I noticed with my seal fate build anyways that my ambushes arent that great |
| 19:01.00 | Dagen | cause I there was some talent I couldnt get...improved ambush or something..or maybe it was a combination of things |
| 19:01.15 | kergoth | how so? not enough points in imp ambush? or just missing the combo point generation from initiative? |
| 19:01.18 | kergoth | ah |
| 19:01.37 | Dagen | I'm logging in to check what it was |
| 19:01.55 | Dagen | yeah I couldnt get improved ambush |
| 19:02.06 | kergoth | i need to stop switching damn characters and actually make one get some decent gear |
| 19:02.10 | kergoth | i get bored tooe asy :) |
| 19:02.35 | Dagen | although if I took my 3 points out of precision I could probably get it |
| 19:03.19 | Dagen | but I was going for a dagger pve build with my half-assed gear :P |
| 19:03.30 | Dagen | so I wanted more +hit |
| 19:03.52 | Dagen | since ambush isnt too useful in pve |
| 19:04.01 | kergoth | thats what i'm going for too, dagger pve. i've got other chars that are pvp focused |
| 19:04.41 | Dagen | I was originally going to make my rogue total pvp, but I came to the realization I dont like to pvp that much |
| 19:04.59 | Dagen | I get bored of it really quick |
| 19:05.57 | Dagen | so instead my rogue is kind of a 20 man instance runner/farmer |
| 19:06.12 | Dagen | and occassionally MC |
| 19:07.16 | Dagen | I focus mainly on my mage though.. my mage is the one with all the good gear :P |
| 19:07.50 | Dagen | my rogue has been level 60 for a few months now and had over 1000g at one point..never even got him an epic mount, lol |
| 19:08.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 19:08.45 | kergoth | i wish i'd focus on one char. i used to focus on my shammy, but got bored before i even got him attuned :P |
| 19:08.49 | zenzelezz | I don't find the speed difference between normal and epic mount worth 900g |
| 19:09.27 | Dagen | its worth it for your main, but I think its a waste for my alts |
| 19:09.43 | zenzelezz | I only play one char, and still don't find it worth it |
| 19:10.19 | Dagen | there's been a couple cases where an epic mount was kind of necessary :P |
| 19:10.46 | krka | Dagen: a table Character with (int id, string username, potential other attributes) should be fine, i think |
| 19:10.47 | zenzelezz | when? I suppose if you care about PvP it can matter |
| 19:11.09 | Tem | Ossy |
| 19:11.21 | Tem | you need an epic to be the crystal finder |
| 19:11.32 | Dagen | well there's that one chick in winterspring you have to talk to get the ony key...you can get to her without going to the cave if you have an epic mount |
| 19:11.35 | kergoth | i wouldnt think itd be a waste. travel time in wow wastes a lot of time |
| 19:11.36 | zenzelezz | Ossy? |
| 19:11.41 | Dagen | stuff like that |
| 19:11.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:11.53 | Tem | also makes herb farming bearable |
| 19:12.06 | Tem | Ossirian the Unscarred |
| 19:12.10 | zenzelezz | well, I don't farm, and I find the travel time fast enough :-p |
| 19:12.22 | Tem | I would *die* without my epic mount |
| 19:12.26 | Wulf4 | Dagen: what's the way to travel there? |
| 19:12.28 | Tem | I'm impatient as hell |
| 19:12.29 | zenzelezz | I had 1300g or so once |
| 19:12.44 | zenzelezz | but spent 900 on a Quel'Serrar |
| 19:13.02 | Tem | Wulf4, I believe it's something with jumping while on your mount with a slowfall buff |
| 19:13.04 | Dagen | you gotta make kind of an odd jump to where she's at... its hard to describe it. Its even hard to do with an epic mount. I normally have to equip my spurs and carrot to do it :P |
| 19:13.25 | zenzelezz | <Dagen> well there's that one chick in winterspring you have to talk to get the ony key...you can get to her without going to the cave if you have an epic mount <--- I did that on my normal mount |
| 19:13.50 | zenzelezz | tricky, but you just have to hit the right spot |
| 19:13.51 | Dagen | lol, you're better at jumping than I am then hehe |
| 19:14.05 | Dagen | I had a heck of a time trying to do it even on my epic mount |
| 19:14.53 | Tem | it's also pretty important in WSG and AB |
| 19:14.56 | Dagen | but sometimes you gotta make weird jumps like that, and its just nice to have the faster mount |
| 19:14.59 | Tem | fast response = the win |
| 19:15.17 | Dagen | well zenze said he doesnt pvp so |
| 19:15.41 | Dagen | but yeah, in pvp there's obvious uses |
| 19:15.53 | Dagen | having a faster mount gives you a huge advantage |
| 19:16.16 | Dagen | especially when trying to catch druids :P |
| 19:16.23 | Tem | haha |
| 19:16.52 | Shadowed | It's not even a huge advantage, if you're in the 60 bracket you are basically ineffective if you have a non-epic mount :p |
| 19:17.42 | Dagen | but aside from that, I think the overall time savings is worth it |
| 19:17.46 | Dagen | from having to travel around |
| 19:17.59 | Shadowed | definitatly |
| 19:18.30 | Dagen | I mean, think about when you have to go to the south end of felwood or something..it takes so long to get there |
| 19:18.39 | Dagen | no matter how you do it |
| 19:19.40 | Dagen | actually horde may be able to get there relatively fast... I'm talking from an alliance perspective :P |
| 19:19.47 | Tain | I want epic flightpath mounts. |
| 19:20.05 | Dagen | first class gryphon flights! |
| 19:20.17 | Dagen | I'd pay extra money to take one of those |
| 19:20.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu_ (n=Shouryuu@cm34.delta10.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 19:20.44 | Tain | A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away (Norrath) you could cast Spirit of the Wolf, buff to increase run speed, on boats that would take you between continents. |
| 19:20.53 | Shadowed | Felwood is like the alliance version of Barrens just not as bad |
| 19:20.56 | Tain | It was unintended of course, and casued all sorts of issues. |
| 19:20.56 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 19:21.08 | Tain | Alliance hell is STV. |
| 19:21.11 | Cairenn | lol |
| 19:21.25 | Dagen | STV is hell for both sides,I think |
| 19:21.34 | Shadowed | thats true |
| 19:21.35 | Dagen | in general |
| 19:21.50 | Shadowed | Horde has it slightly better |
| 19:21.51 | Dagen | on my warrior I completely bypassed questing in that zone I hate it so much |
| 19:21.57 | Shadowed | Not by a whole lot, but it's a little bit better |
| 19:22.00 | Tain | Horde has it a LOT better. |
| 19:22.07 | Tain | You get a place right in the middle. |
| 19:22.23 | Cide | horde? better? you must be kidding! |
| 19:22.31 | Tain | Alliance gets absolute top of the zone, and absolute bottom, and that's it. |
| 19:22.40 | Shadowed | they don't even get absolute top |
| 19:22.53 | Shadowed | They get to either Westfall/Duskwood for top, Booty bay for bottom |
| 19:23.04 | Dagen | yeah, for flight paths |
| 19:23.09 | Shadowed | s/to either/get to go to/ |
| 19:23.25 | Dagen | there's the joke of an alliance camp at the top of STV but thats it |
| 19:23.35 | Cide | that's horde and alliance |
| 19:23.39 | Cide | assuming you mean nesingwary's |
| 19:23.40 | Dagen | oh is it? |
| 19:23.42 | Tain | No. |
| 19:23.42 | Dagen | no |
| 19:23.44 | zenzelezz | when I leveled my first warrior, on a PvP realm, I was horde... STV was a futile place |
| 19:23.47 | Dagen | I mean the one further north |
| 19:23.50 | Cide | ah, forgive my ignorance then |
| 19:23.53 | Tain | There's a small Alliance camp by the north end of the zone in. |
| 19:23.56 | zenzelezz | everywhere outside of Grom'gol was full of ganking 60 alliance |
| 19:24.01 | Dagen | I forget what its called |
| 19:24.04 | Shadowed | Tain: No flight path though |
| 19:24.10 | Tain | Thats' what you get for pvp zenzelezz :) |
| 19:24.16 | Dagen | rebel camp, thats it |
| 19:24.17 | Tain | Yes I know no flight path. |
| 19:24.50 | Tain | It's just a place you have to run back and forth to across STV for quests. |
| 19:25.17 | Shadowed | Although, the nice thing is you can basically grab 10 quests and do most of them in a way that prevents having to do a lot of unneeded running |
| 19:25.31 | SinePi | though the limit of 20 quests if a PITA. |
| 19:25.36 | SinePi | s/if/is/ |
| 19:25.37 | Dagen | I refuse to quest in STV ever again |
| 19:26.00 | zenzelezz | I would appreciate it if we could have 30 quests or so |
| 19:26.03 | zenzelezz | should be enough |
| 19:26.46 | Iriel | 20 quests requires choices or planning |
| 19:26.48 | Shadowed | Was a post from one of the CM's about that a few months back |
| 19:27.02 | Tain | Ah it would be nice, but I do find as it is I hang on to quests longer than I should rather than just do them. |
| 19:27.04 | Tain | Although! |
| 19:27.04 | Iriel | Why do so many people find the need to plan or choose a BAD thing |
| 19:27.14 | SinePi | planning something that one isn't always supposed to know. |
| 19:27.15 | Tain | What'd I'd like to see is maybe a separate Elite quest list |
| 19:27.38 | Cairenn | Iriel: because people are inherently lazy |
| 19:27.50 | Iriel | Would you like a 'give me xp' button, so you dont have to fight things you dont know how to fight, or explore places you dont know the details of? |
| 19:28.07 | SinePi | If I play my first char, I'd rather gather everything I can and do whatever I find on my way, rather than go out of my way to plan. |
| 19:28.12 | Cairenn | and want everything handed to them on a silver platter, already cut into bite sized pieces |
| 19:28.30 | Dagen | well at level 60 you tend to have a lot of random quests in your log...like CH quests, and now all these LHC quests |
| 19:28.36 | krka | the problem imo, is that you tend to end up with 20 red quests in different parts of the world |
| 19:28.50 | krka | and you dont want to abandon them because you'll forget to pick them up again |
| 19:28.53 | Dagen | its quests that you kind of always want on you |
| 19:29.36 | Dagen | especially the new quests for LHC where you have to pick up random stuff for signets |
| 19:30.06 | Dagen | you want to always have all those quests on you so that if you're out grinding somewhere you can also gather whatever items drop in that area for those quests |
| 19:30.09 | Tain | To me it's that you have to pick up say 5 quests for a specific instance, but the quest givers are in different zones. |
| 19:30.26 | Tain | And if you don't do that instance immediately they sit there until you can. |
| 19:30.36 | Tain | Never mind if you end up trying to do a different instance instead. |
| 19:30.40 | Dagen | yeah, thats another issue |
| 19:30.46 | Tain | Now you have no normal quest spots. |
| 19:30.53 | Dagen | is that they dont put all of the quests for an instance in one spot |
| 19:31.10 | Tain | I regularly abandon quests if I know that I can get back to the quest giver easily during the course of things. |
| 19:31.17 | SinePi | combine that with being invited to an instance by rushing people and it gets worse. |
| 19:31.17 | Dagen | so if you decide to go do a particular instance and you dont have the quests on you, you have to run all around the world picking them up |
| 19:31.29 | Dagen | right |
| 19:31.47 | SinePi | "would you like to go to _____?" "yeah, once I get my quests for it!" "fuck you" ^^; |
| 19:32.43 | Tain | It would be slightly better if all quests can be shared, but some still don't |
| 19:33.07 | SinePi | still, chained quests would look silly shared. |
| 19:33.37 | zenzelezz | make it share the highest part that the member on the receiving end hasn't done |
| 19:33.43 | Dagen | on my main, I've done most quests but its still mostly full of quests for getting these new items where you need like x amount of random tokens to get some piece of armor |
| 19:34.03 | Dagen | or these quests where you have to gather 20 of blah to get some token |
| 19:34.10 | Dagen | and I have like 5/20 |
| 19:34.29 | Dagen | cause I'm too lazy to get the last 15 :P |
| 19:36.11 | Cairenn | not you guys :p |
| 19:36.50 | Cairenn | although if you wish to title yourselves as stupid user, then far be it for me to interfer |
| 19:37.33 | Dagen | DIE! |
| 19:38.44 | Dagen | that smiling and waving acts as a taunt for me, I cant help it |
| 19:38.51 | krka | isn't "stupid user" kinda redundant btw? |
| 19:39.00 | Cairenn | krka: point |
| 19:39.06 | Fanook | Dagen: that's fine, I just want the fused wiring |
| 19:40.03 | Dagen | 10g ok? |
| 19:40.23 | Tem | YOU BUY DUCK |
| 19:40.31 | Tem | 100G KTHXBAI |
| 19:40.52 | zenzelezz | gief gold for cat |
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| 19:44.43 | Dagen | so has anyone in here killed Noth in Naxxramas? |
| 19:45.20 | Dagen | our guild has been working on it.. |
| 19:45.56 | Dagen | it seems like you need insane dps to do it or something |
| 19:51.09 | JoshBorke | anyone else gotten letters in the mail after turning in notes dropped from scourge? |
| 19:53.25 | kaiden | JoshBorke, yes, and they tell you to go find people then you go find those people and they have nothing for you |
| 19:53.31 | kaiden | it's a rip :) blame blizzard |
| 19:54.00 | JoshBorke | ok, just double checking =D |
| 19:54.24 | Dagen | I heard you get friendship bread and something else from them |
| 19:55.57 | JoshBorke | is that all it is? |
| 19:56.26 | Dagen | yeah.. it gives you a stamina buff or something |
| 19:56.46 | Dagen | its kinda dumb :P |
| 19:57.19 | zenzelezz | I was utterly disappointed that they didn't at least act like I had told them something about their people |
| 19:57.38 | kaiden | http://www.transformersmovie.com/ YAY |
| 19:57.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce3.disney.com) |
| 20:01.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:01.08 | Cairenn | hi ckknight |
| 20:01.32 | krka | spider man 3 not before may 2007 :/ |
| 20:01.37 | krka | suckage |
| 20:01.49 | krka | already trailers, doesn't that mean the movie is basically done? |
| 20:02.01 | ckknight | Ace2 is coming along well, btw. We're shooting for a public beta soon |
| 20:02.07 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce3.disney.com) |
| 20:02.16 | krka | what kind of stuff will Ace2 do? |
| 20:02.27 | zenzelezz | Ace1 stuff, but better! (don't know) |
| 20:02.27 | Cairenn | ckknight: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5321 (in case you miss it) |
| 20:03.00 | ckknight | sorta |
| 20:03.10 | ckknight | it's fully embeddable |
| 20:03.20 | ckknight | it's just a bunch of well written libraries |
| 20:03.23 | ckknight | written in an OO fashion |
| 20:03.36 | krka | what kind of libraries? |
| 20:04.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu_ (n=Shouryuu@cm34.delta10.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 20:04.32 | kremonte | is there a urlencode function for lua? :S |
| 20:04.48 | End | like %20 and whatnot? |
| 20:04.54 | ckknight | AceAddon-2.0, AceConsole-2.0, AceDB-2.0, AceDebug-2.0, AceEvent-2.0, AceHook-2.0, AceLibrary, AceLibraryBase-2.0, AceLocale-2.0, AceModuleCore-2.0, and AceOO-2.0 |
| 20:04.55 | zenzelezz | poor guys... someone's been spamming for a tank for Maraudon for ages. 50 minutes ago I offered to join them (being 60) if I could roll on nature resist plate, but they said no... but they're still looking for a tank o_O |
| 20:04.56 | kremonte | End: si |
| 20:04.56 | krka | why would you need that? O_o |
| 20:05.10 | kremonte | i have a table of the cyrillic alphabet, and i'm converting it all to \###\### |
| 20:05.32 | kremonte | i'm probably doing it some ridiculously hard way but i take the hexadecimal quadruplet (which i've only found in urls lawl) |
| 20:05.36 | kremonte | and converting it to binary |
| 20:05.44 | kremonte | to get the digits ._. |
| 20:06.04 | ckknight | and Ace2 is all fully documented, for you naysayers |
| 20:06.13 | kremonte | nay i say! |
| 20:06.18 | End | say I nay! |
| 20:06.22 | Thrae | Neeeeeiiiggghhh |
| 20:06.28 | ckknight | feel free to take a look at http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/Ace2#Documentation |
| 20:06.36 | ckknight | tutorials there too |
| 20:06.37 | krka | hmm... AceDB looks interesting... what kind of queries can you do? |
| 20:06.41 | ckknight | it is mostly monkey-themed |
| 20:06.59 | ckknight | krka, sadly, since WoW doesn't provide SQL-like capabilities, it's just intelligent SV handling |
| 20:07.15 | krka | well, of course wow doesn't |
| 20:07.19 | kremonte | so, anyone got any ideas? for a hexadecimal quadruplet of a unicode char? ._. |
| 20:07.19 | krka | which is why you have to do it yourself :) |
| 20:07.50 | ckknight | yea, but it's like `self.db.char.value` to access a value for your char |
| 20:07.51 | ckknight | and such |
| 20:08.54 | ckknight | but it's all raw or on-demand, so as fast/memory-efficient as possible |
| 20:09.38 | ckknight | one of the coolest things is AceOO, which provides a full-featured object-oriented framework |
| 20:09.40 | krka | hm |
| 20:09.53 | krka | faster than MySavedVariable.value? |
| 20:10.18 | ckknight | technically no, but that doesn't provide you with the features that AceDB does |
| 20:10.38 | ckknight | such as char-specific, class-specific, realm-specific, account-specific, and profile-specific handling |
| 20:10.59 | krka | MySavedVariable.class["priest"].value? :) |
| 20:11.10 | ckknight | if you do that, krka, AceDB is faster. |
| 20:11.28 | krka | really? |
| 20:11.35 | ckknight | since self.class.value makes less indexes than MySavedVariable.class.priest.value |
| 20:11.40 | ckknight | and it's not accessing a global |
| 20:11.43 | ckknight | so faster there, too |
| 20:11.45 | krka | even if i first do local profile = MySavedVariable.class["priest"] |
| 20:11.52 | ckknight | you can do that |
| 20:12.00 | Thrae | And you can always do local dbclass = self.class |
| 20:12.02 | ckknight | but you can also do the same with local profile = self.db.class |
| 20:12.12 | krka | yeah, so equally fast then |
| 20:12.13 | ckknight | so then it's equal. |
| 20:14.00 | Thrae | And what's good about Ace2 is that if you don't need stuff like AceDB, then you don't have to include it. |
| 20:14.45 | Thrae | Like I don't think people will be asking me for complex profile options with TinyTip -- you normally like what you see with a tooltip and stick to it. |
| 20:14.47 | krka | interesting stuff... but it seems like it mostly implements trivial stuff |
| 20:15.07 | krka | i presume AceLocale removes all unused languages? |
| 20:15.35 | Thrae | krka: Trivial to you maybe ;) |
| 20:15.37 | kergoth | i wouldnt consider hooking trivial, nor a sane object model, nor.. |
| 20:15.42 | kergoth | :P |
| 20:15.54 | krka | hooking _is_ trivial though |
| 20:16.11 | Tain | Yeah, trivially easy to cause problem.s |
| 20:16.14 | krka | 1) make a reference to the original, 2) overwrite it 3) have your function call the original |
| 20:16.41 | krka | it's like 2-4 extra lines per hooked function |
| 20:17.05 | Tain | Right. And if you're the only one ever hoooking that function, no problem. |
| 20:17.15 | Thrae | Ace2 is kinda like a C# vs pure C -- sure, you could do everything in C, but C# makes certain things a whole lot easier. |
| 20:17.17 | krka | even without that, no problem |
| 20:17.45 | Thrae | I should say, the argument with Ace2 being trivial is like C# vs pure C. |
| 20:17.49 | AnduinLothar | AceLocale? |
| 20:18.12 | krka | Tain, can you give an example of where that method would cause problems? |
| 20:18.53 | Tem | krka, it won't |
| 20:18.59 | Tem | it's just slightly more hassle |
| 20:19.06 | Tem | I'm spoiled to AceHook |
| 20:19.13 | Tem | I don't like to hook things without it |
| 20:19.19 | kergoth | isnt it the unhooking that causes problems, not the hooking? |
| 20:19.25 | Tem | yes |
| 20:19.27 | Tain | Unhooking definitely. |
| 20:19.33 | Thrae | Just like Lua has all these conventions to make things easier without you totally understanding how it does it, Ace2 provides the same. |
| 20:20.33 | Thrae | If you know everything about everything Ace2 can provide, then you probably don't need it. |
| 20:20.39 | Tain | Certainly using AceHooks (which even currently doesn't require Ace proper) makes things nice because you can see who else is also using it. |
| 20:21.17 | Thrae | But coding WoW addons shouldn't require such in-depth knowledge to be efficient, in my opinion...let the optimization fanatics have their fun with that ;) |
| 20:24.06 | ckknight | back |
| 20:24.27 | ckknight | Tain, actually that's not true anymore |
| 20:24.44 | ckknight | well, for Ace2 |
| 20:24.44 | Tain | Hooking in general the way it's done just seems to hackish to me. Not that I have any suggestions for doing it better, but I don't like the idea of all these addons having copies of the same functions all over the place taking up space. |
| 20:24.44 | ckknight | since everything is modular and separated |
| 20:25.12 | kergoth | they dont have copies, they have references |
| 20:25.26 | ckknight | and references are cheap |
| 20:25.41 | End | and each reference of what appears to be the same function is just the reference to someone else's hook |
| 20:25.43 | Tain | Point taken! |
| 20:26.03 | Tain | I was stuck thinking of them as copies and not references. |
| 20:26.09 | ckknight | Thrae, along with the C# vs. C argument. Typically doing something complex and hackish in C, someone probably coded better in C# |
| 20:26.26 | Tain | But that still only removes the extra storage. Just as a principle it rubs me the wrong way. |
| 20:27.03 | ckknight | AnduinLothar, AceLocale is probably in direct competition with your Localization |
| 20:27.10 | ckknight | :-P |
| 20:27.11 | kergoth | the whole idea of hijacking someone elses function is ugly in general. its unfortunate that it's often necessary, and is often a sign of lacks in the APIs, imo |
| 20:27.17 | ckknight | AceLocale is like a user-defined BabbleLib |
| 20:28.18 | End | most hooks are just a hey, this function was called, so now I gotta do something as well. I think there a lot less that actually change functionality (which is a lot more dangerous I think) |
| 20:28.29 | ckknight | krka, AceLocale does remove all unused languages ASAP. it also allows for lazy translations (falling back to the native tongue when not available) |
| 20:28.38 | ckknight | it also has a Debug method that shows you what is missing |
| 20:28.40 | ckknight | and such |
| 20:29.03 | Industrial | <sneaky_commercial> http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php/topic,1634.0.html </sneaky_commercial> |
| 20:29.07 | AnduinLothar | so... why did you write it if it does the exact same hting as Localization? |
| 20:29.10 | kergoth | End: agreed. i'd argue that that is a lack in the api. if there isnt a capable events system that allows me to get notified when things like that happen... :) |
| 20:29.27 | ckknight | AnduinLothar, because it makes my penis bigger. |
| 20:29.44 | ckknight | essentially. |
| 20:30.04 | ckknight | it also uses Ace2's internal stuff |
| 20:30.13 | AnduinLothar | you realize that making competition in area where there's not much user base makes things more complicated for the end user.. |
| 20:30.17 | krka | we all suffer from it i think... "i can make my own and make it better" :) i know i do atleast |
| 20:30.27 | End | isn't AceLocale embedded? |
| 20:30.30 | ckknight | yes. |
| 20:30.38 | End | so the end user doesn't care that much |
| 20:30.39 | ckknight | right |
| 20:30.48 | ckknight | AceLocale requires AceLibrary and AceLibraryBase |
| 20:30.51 | ckknight | which are also embeds |
| 20:31.02 | AnduinLothar | Localization is embeddable too |
| 20:31.08 | ckknight | okay |
| 20:31.08 | AnduinLothar | how is yours any better? |
| 20:31.14 | krka | so then the author can choose |
| 20:31.14 | ckknight | I dunno, I haven't read yours |
| 20:31.16 | krka | no big problem |
| 20:31.26 | AnduinLothar | you didn't even research the competition? |
| 20:31.36 | AnduinLothar | wow, you have way too much time on your hands |
| 20:31.44 | ckknight | I used BabbleLib's code |
| 20:31.45 | ckknight | not yours |
| 20:31.50 | ckknight | and I wrote BabbleLib |
| 20:31.56 | ckknight | that's where I got my inspiration from |
| 20:32.16 | AnduinLothar | riiight.... so how is that different from me? |
| 20:32.28 | kergoth | who cares? |
| 20:32.30 | ckknight | I'm not pushy? |
| 20:32.39 | Cairenn | boys ... |
| 20:33.02 | ckknight | Miss Cairenn, he's being mean to me |
| 20:33.03 | Tain | Really, you can't do this because I already did is never going to be a valid argument. |
| 20:33.28 | Cairenn | le sigh |
| 20:33.32 | End | LE SIGH |
| 20:33.44 | kaiden | le chicken nuggets *vanishes* |
| 20:33.47 | ckknight | I don't mean to be a dick or anything, but I wrote it the way I thought it should be |
| 20:33.50 | kergoth | devs get so defensive so easily wrt their code |
| 20:34.00 | kergoth | naturally i'm no exception, just saying |
| 20:34.01 | End | anyways, I wasn't aware Localization was embeddable |
| 20:34.02 | ckknight | yea, and I didn't even steal any of his code. |
| 20:34.02 | Cairenn | human nature |
| 20:34.36 | ckknight | oh well |
| 20:35.04 | ckknight | I agree |
| 20:35.08 | Tain | Yep krka! |
| 20:35.29 | krka | it's a hobby, so it should be fun |
| 20:35.36 | Tain | If I want to start writing a brand new unit frame right now just because I feel like it, then so be it. |
| 20:35.43 | kaiden | So, i just got threatened by blizzard to close all of my accounts that are on my credit card because my roommate and i share |
| 20:35.59 | Tain | Of course I'm more likely to just get a brand new bottle of rum. |
| 20:36.09 | Tain | Sounds shady, kaiden |
| 20:36.21 | kaiden | who blizzard? of course they do |
| 20:36.22 | kaiden | it's blizzard.. |
| 20:36.30 | kaiden | the king of screwups :) |
| 20:37.14 | kaiden | all started by me questioning the ability to transfer a priest off my roomies account which is in my name to my account which is in his name for some reason as his credit card was originally used when i bought the game |
| 20:37.16 | ckknight | where is Localization? |
| 20:37.18 | ckknight | I can't find it |
| 20:37.27 | kergoth | ack, this isnt good.. when i take a deep breath of cold air, a tooth hurts badly |
| 20:37.44 | kaiden | kergoth, dentist time :P root canal! |
| 20:37.48 | End | good question |
| 20:37.51 | End | I've seen it |
| 20:38.02 | kergoth | i'm changing jobs next week, and the new position is contract.. need to get my own dental |
| 20:38.13 | kaiden | better do it now then |
| 20:38.31 | End | ckknight: I've -seen- it, but I have no idea where you can download it now |
| 20:38.46 | ckknight | found it |
| 20:38.46 | ckknight | hrm |
| 20:38.48 | ckknight | rated 3/5 |
| 20:38.54 | ckknight | doesn't really bode well |
| 20:39.15 | Tain | Oh now you should know better than to rely on user ratings. |
| 20:39.40 | kaiden | yeah if we relied on those Fubar would be crazy cool |
| 20:39.41 | kaiden | ... |
| 20:39.43 | kaiden | oh wait it is |
| 20:40.12 | ckknight | hehe. |
| 20:40.28 | ckknight | kaiden, in case you didn't put 2 and 2 together, I wrote FuBar :-P |
| 20:40.39 | ckknight | okay, Localization looks horribly bloated for what I want |
| 20:41.02 | kaiden | no crap |
| 20:41.14 | kaiden | hence the obvious ass kissing i just did |
| 20:41.25 | kaiden | ;) |
| 20:41.35 | ckknight | I made the right choice in writing AceLocale. |
| 20:42.36 | ckknight | (I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, either) |
| 20:44.32 | ckknight | mine is much more OO-style |
| 20:44.39 | ckknight | and such |
| 20:45.10 | ckknight | e.g. it makes a new instance holding the translations per addon. He puts it into a central dealy |
| 20:45.44 | ckknight | so it's instance:GetTranslation("Word") vs. Localization.GetString("MyAddon", "Word") |
| 20:46.06 | ckknight | oh well |
| 20:50.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SilverShadow (n=silversh@69-2-90-22.wan.networktel.net) |
| 20:54.28 | ckknight | here's a quote I like to code by: "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away" |
| 20:54.51 | End | hehe |
| 20:54.53 | Iriel | Of course, |
| 20:55.03 | Iriel | it's a great quote but it doesn't really work for library writers |
| 20:55.12 | Iriel | Just like it doesn't work for swiss-army knife manufacturers |
| 20:55.20 | Fanook | any ui.worldofwar people here? |
| 20:55.33 | ckknight | I do try to follow it, though |
| 20:55.37 | Iriel | Another quote I really like is "A specification that cannot fit on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper cannot be understood" |
| 20:55.50 | ckknight | I got another good one |
| 20:55.52 | End | well...libraries -are- going to have extra functions the designers might not see an immediate use for |
| 20:55.57 | End | but you don't want to go overboard |
| 20:55.59 | Iriel | again, the germ of the idea is one to live by, but it doesn't always apply. |
| 20:56.27 | ckknight | "To achieve perfection, you can either put as much stuff in until it is perfect, or you can take as much out until it is perfect. The latter is by far the harder way" |
| 20:56.49 | JoshBorke | hehe, i love getting errors with unnamed frames =D |
| 20:57.02 | JoshBorke | <unname>:SetPoint(): <unnamed> is dependent on this |
| 20:57.24 | ckknight | hehe |
| 20:58.00 | End | I wish you could do a :Set |
| 20:58.01 | End | er |
| 20:58.11 | End | :SetName() |
| 20:58.25 | End | just for easier reference for such situations |
| 20:59.03 | ckknight | override :GetName() |
| 20:59.17 | End | well...will that work in the blizz error messages? |
| 20:59.18 | Iriel | though i'm not sure it helps wow-generated errors |
| 20:59.21 | End | yeah, exactly |
| 20:59.27 | Iriel | worth a try tho 8-) |
| 20:59.41 | End | I mean, I was thinking override originally, but I don't think it works |
| 20:59.43 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 21:00.00 | End | (I'll have to try to find out for sure I guess) |
| 21:00.15 | End | heh |
| 21:00.25 | End | probably when it actually shows a map :P |
| 21:00.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Canislupus (n=Canislup@68-185-211-193.dhcp.clma.mo.charter.com) |
| 21:00.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:02.50 | End | hmmm |
| 21:03.27 | End | the second most popular page on wowwiki is the wow api page (and that's second to the main page) |
| 21:03.31 | kergoth | svn is perfect for active development, even of code that doesnt work.. then you can easily revert to previous versions if you inadvertantly break it worse ;) |
| 21:04.14 | End | yeah, I know. I'm holding back because I don't know if I might suddenly completely rewrite it or not ;p |
| 21:04.20 | Canislupus | i dont suppose i have succeded in increasing anyone's curiosity about what is wrong with chatbox, by any chance, have I? |
| 21:04.39 | Canislupus | http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=1819 |
| 21:06.05 | End | (of course, now I have a lot of copied directories laying around, which is exactly one of the reasons I started using svn...so yeahhhhh...) |
| 21:06.13 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:06.25 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:07.04 | Canislupus | svn = sperry van ness? |
| 21:07.16 | Canislupus | www.svn.com |
| 21:07.22 | End | nooo |
| 21:07.34 | kergoth | ~svn |
| 21:07.37 | Canislupus | social venture network? |
| 21:07.40 | End | if you actually googled it, you'd have much better luck |
| 21:07.46 | Canislupus | lol, i did |
| 21:07.49 | kergoth | silly bot |
| 21:07.51 | kergoth | ~subversion |
| 21:07.53 | purl | somebody said subversion was version control software. see http://subversion.tigris.org/ it aims to be a better CVS than CVS. |
| 21:07.53 | Canislupus | heh |
| 21:07.56 | kergoth | ~svn is <reply> see subversion |
| 21:07.58 | purl | ...but svn is already something else... |
| 21:08.00 | kergoth | .. |
| 21:08.03 | kergoth | ~svn |
| 21:08.05 | Tain | ~wtf svn |
| 21:08.14 | kergoth | purl: no, svn is <reply> see subversion |
| 21:08.15 | purl | kergoth: okay |
| 21:08.15 | End | ~wtf wtf |
| 21:08.27 | Canislupus | lol |
| 21:08.30 | End | oh I thought it'd bring up the wtf utilty |
| 21:08.57 | End | haha |
| 21:08.59 | End | ~man |
| 21:09.00 | purl | Tem and Tain are the man. |
| 21:09.11 | Canislupus | works with languages other than CVS? |
| 21:09.20 | Cairenn | o.O |
| 21:09.20 | End | CVS isn't a language |
| 21:09.40 | End | it's a version control system |
| 21:09.48 | Canislupus | oops, /cast exposenoob(rank6) |
| 21:09.50 | End | and subversion is just CVS done a lot more sanely |
| 21:09.50 | kergoth | i need to find a good "introduction to cofiguration managemetn concepts" for new developers |
| 21:10.45 | Canislupus | we had a DBA that couln't say CSV to save his ass, he always called it CVS |
| 21:11.04 | End | ahh |
| 21:12.18 | Canislupus | so the impression i get is that you are having pretty good results with SVN so far, eh? |
| 21:13.22 | End | well, yes |
| 21:13.26 | kergoth | svn is incredible. every major open source project that doesnt need a peer to peer version control system, for the most part, ends up moving to it |
| 21:13.33 | kergoth | (with a few exceptions) |
| 21:14.06 | Canislupus | and it works with any files, including xml and lua? |
| 21:14.11 | End | yes |
| 21:14.16 | Canislupus | nice |
| 21:14.19 | kergoth | it supports anything. even binaries (though not well) |
| 21:14.24 | kergoth | google is your friend |
| 21:14.27 | kergoth | the entire svn book is online |
| 21:14.34 | Canislupus | yeah i am there |
| 21:14.36 | End | it's the turtle book |
| 21:14.53 | End | ;p |
| 21:15.21 | Canislupus | hell i google everything... i wish i had a neural link to google |
| 21:17.25 | Canislupus | turtle book~tortoiseSVN i assume? |
| 21:17.47 | End | oh |
| 21:17.51 | End | heh, that's funny |
| 21:17.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorie (n=none@r43h96.res.gatech.edu) |
| 21:18.14 | End | weird coincidence |
| 21:18.16 | Canislupus | ? O.o ? |
| 21:18.22 | JoshBorie | ... |
| 21:18.45 | End | the book publisher decided to put turtles on the cover of the SVN book |
| 21:18.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.219.207) |
| 21:18.53 | End | and then...there was the tortoiseCVS project |
| 21:19.05 | End | which was adapted to work with SVN basically |
| 21:19.12 | kaiden | it sucks to be in the heart of seattle and not have any stinking chinese delivery places that dont use anything other than some specialized dinner delivery service that costs 30 bucks to use |
| 21:19.13 | kaiden | lol |
| 21:19.47 | End | I read that as cheese delivery at first |
| 21:19.58 | kaiden | cheese would be good too |
| 21:20.09 | Canislupus | well, i am sure for $30 they would bring you anything you want |
| 21:20.20 | Canislupus | except of course... hookers |
| 21:20.32 | End | hookers is more |
| 21:20.39 | End | ;p |
| 21:20.42 | Canislupus | thats what i hear anyway... |
| 21:21.04 | Kirkburn | Why would you want a _stinking_ chinese place? :/ |
| 21:21.13 | Canislupus | wonder if a delivery service like that would be successful in my town? |
| 21:21.44 | Canislupus | deliver groceries, food from resturants, etc |
| 21:22.05 | Canislupus | internet ordering system... |
| 21:25.37 | Kirkburn | These are groundbreaking ideas you're thinking of! =) |
| 21:26.08 | Canislupus | got a feeling there are no original ideas anymore... |
| 21:26.22 | End | nonsense |
| 21:26.50 | Kirkburn | I just spent my evening watching the Italy v Ukraine game with some italians |
| 21:27.01 | Kirkburn | Needless to say, they're an excitable bunch |
| 21:27.35 | kergoth | there should be a pizza & alcohol & munchies delivery service for parties and such |
| 21:28.41 | Kirkburn | Are you serious? |
| 21:29.16 | Kirkburn | (sarcasm broadcasts have a very short range :) |
| 21:29.17 | Tain | I used to use Waiters on Wheels when I was in San Jose. |
| 21:29.30 | Tain | They didn't charge that much, it was reasonable to me. |
| 21:29.58 | Kirkburn | In the UK most pizza companies have good prices still :) |
| 21:30.33 | Tain | Well we're talking more I think about services for places that don't offer their own deliveyr. |
| 21:30.40 | Kirkburn | Ooh, MS sold 10 Xboxes in Japan last week |
| 21:30.52 | Legorol | as many as 10? whoahh! |
| 21:30.55 | Legorol | when did it launch? |
| 21:31.11 | Legorol | oh, you mean the old xbox? |
| 21:31.43 | Kirkburn | heh ... the Xbox 360 sold 1,169 |
| 21:31.51 | Legorol | that's not much either.. |
| 21:31.57 | Legorol | Kirkburn, where do you get these exciting infos |
| 21:32.01 | Kirkburn | In comparison the PS2 sold 25,467 |
| 21:32.06 | Kirkburn | http://feeds.joystiq.com/weblogsinc/joystiq?m=379 |
| 21:32.15 | Legorol | i just find it amusing that they can count that 10 |
| 21:32.25 | Legorol | because the error in counting such things would be greater than 10 i'd imagine :) |
| 21:32.27 | Kirkburn | And 25 GBAs :D |
| 21:33.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@204.90.50.252) |
| 21:33.48 | Legorol | what's a GBA? |
| 21:33.53 | End | gameboy advance |
| 21:34.20 | Legorol | when did WoW launch in US? |
| 21:34.22 | Legorol | November 2004? |
| 21:34.41 | Kirkburn | yup |
| 21:34.57 | Legorol | ok, just to amuse you guys.. |
| 21:35.05 | Legorol | WoW currently has more than 6 mil subscribers |
| 21:35.10 | Legorol | let's consider this for a moment |
| 21:35.13 | Kirkburn | About 6.6m :) |
| 21:35.21 | Legorol | assuming noone has quit WoW yet, so that the amount of WoW boxes sold is equal to 6 mil, |
| 21:35.33 | Legorol | since the initial launch (20 months) ago, they sold: |
| 21:35.44 | Legorol | 300,000 boxes per month |
| 21:35.50 | Legorol | or 10,000 boxes per day |
| 21:35.51 | Legorol | imagine |
| 21:35.55 | Legorol | 10k boxes sold per DAY |
| 21:36.02 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 21:36.03 | End | and that's just assuming no quitters |
| 21:36.07 | Legorol | yeah |
| 21:36.12 | Legorol | amusing bit of trivia ;-) |
| 21:36.21 | Legorol | of course it fluctuates a lot |
| 21:36.28 | Legorol | like 500k sold on launch day etc. |
| 21:36.29 | Kirkburn | So how many quitters do you think there have been? |
| 21:36.34 | Legorol | but still, it's amusing to think about it |
| 21:36.34 | Kirkburn | 20%? more? less? |
| 21:36.38 | Legorol | less |
| 21:36.40 | Legorol | 10% |
| 21:36.41 | Legorol | that's my guess |
| 21:36.58 | Legorol | but i'd imagine in that sort of ballpark |
| 21:37.03 | Legorol | definitely not 100 or 200% |
| 21:37.09 | Kirkburn | heh, no way |
| 21:37.21 | Kirkburn | I know of very few people who have quit |
| 21:37.26 | Legorol | ditto |
| 21:37.30 | Tain | The EQ fallout was funny. Very sudden drop. Which I called a long time ago, |
| 21:37.41 | Tain | EQ had a lot less subscribers, they just all owend 2-3 accounts each. |
| 21:37.41 | Legorol | although you have to remember they don't count accounts that are inactive at the moment |
| 21:37.55 | Legorol | and even if people hadn't quit, the number of people who are currently not subscribed is probably more |
| 21:38.04 | Legorol | Tain: what EQ fallout? |
| 21:38.07 | Legorol | did EQ had a sudden drop? |
| 21:38.17 | Legorol | i'm assuming when EQ2 and WoW came out there must've been |
| 21:39.01 | Kirkburn | Lineage is also feeling the sqeeze atm |
| 21:39.23 | Legorol | gogo WoW |
| 21:39.26 | Kirkburn | In the last year, the EQ player base has more than halved :) |
| 21:39.42 | Legorol | well tbh, EQ had its time of glory |
| 21:39.43 | Tain | Oh yeah was looking at charts earlier |
| 21:39.46 | Legorol | it's time it passed away :) |
| 21:40.08 | End | http://mmogchart.com/ <-- interesting site |
| 21:40.12 | Legorol | man, that was boring |
| 21:40.15 | Kirkburn | indeed |
| 21:40.19 | Tain | http://www.mmogchart.com/ |
| 21:40.48 | Tain | The Subscribers: 120,000+ has the big ones (of course.) |
| 21:40.50 | End | pff, my link is shorter ;p |
| 21:40.53 | Kirkburn | Eve Online is going well, keep meaning to play it |
| 21:41.28 | Kirkburn | Looks like Asheron's Call is about to die |
| 21:42.02 | Tain | Eve Online is a lot of fun. Completely different than other games. |
| 21:42.07 | Tain | Which means not everyone likes it. |
| 21:42.15 | Tain | But I love it as a change of pace. |
| 21:42.44 | Legorol | what i am wondering is how does mmogchart account for people with multiple subscriptions |
| 21:42.52 | Legorol | especially when it comes to dividing the market up by % |
| 21:42.54 | Tain | Oh actually have to look at the 70k-700k chart to see the drastic EQ falloff. |
| 21:43.22 | Tain | I believe they only go by subscriber numbers, so subscribed accounts. Not unique people owning multiples. |
| 21:43.28 | Legorol | hehe, coincides with WoW/EQ1 |
| 21:43.30 | Legorol | hehe, coincides with WoW/EQ2 |
| 21:43.37 | End | they have no way of knowing unique people |
| 21:43.41 | Legorol | exactly |
| 21:43.50 | Legorol | the Total graph suggests there are 13 mil MMO players |
| 21:43.55 | Legorol | that's probably an overestimate than |
| 21:44.50 | Legorol | hm, what i find most amusing is EQ2: |
| 21:44.50 | Legorol | sharp rise when it hits shelves |
| 21:44.57 | Legorol | sharp drop when later WoW hits shelves :) |
| 21:45.07 | End | yeah, hehe |
| 21:45.34 | Legorol | WoW's curve is scary.. |
| 21:46.08 | End | yeah |
| 21:47.25 | Kirkburn | Exponential :) |
| 21:47.48 | End | more like just a straight line going up :P |
| 21:48.09 | Kirkburn | ah, true |
| 21:48.26 | End | oh, so they are releasing a spanish version of WoW |
| 21:48.35 | End | not that I care that much |
| 21:48.50 | End | I just saw some slides or something suggesting so |
| 21:48.55 | End | http://blizzard.com/press/060228.shtml |
| 21:49.05 | Legorol | End, they announced it a while ago |
| 21:49.13 | End | yeah I can see that |
| 21:49.14 | Kirkburn | EQ has collision detection? |
| 21:49.16 | End | Febuary |
| 21:49.24 | End | but I didn't know for sure until now |
| 21:50.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc2-cmbg6-0-0-cust566.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:51.19 | Legorol | One of the best quotes ever: |
| 21:51.20 | Legorol | "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." |
| 21:51.20 | Legorol | -Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc. 1989 |
| 21:51.35 | End | hehe |
| 21:52.55 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 22:02.03 | Kirkburn|wooow | i r teh nub ... I broke Titan Panel again :P |
| 22:02.36 | Canislupus | LOL leg, i love that quote |
| 22:03.56 | Canislupus | you guys gonna flame me if a ask a bunch of noob questions in here? |
| 22:05.02 | Legorol | Canislupus: most definitely, but you came in your FR gear i am sure :) |
| 22:05.16 | Legorol | on the serious side: i always ask a bunch of noob questions |
| 22:05.25 | Canislupus | absolutely, full black dragonscale |
| 22:05.38 | Legorol | what is black dragonscale? is that leather or plate? |
| 22:05.40 | Legorol | any good? |
| 22:05.48 | Canislupus | ---scale--- |
| 22:05.57 | Legorol | scale, so it's mail |
| 22:05.58 | Legorol | ok |
| 22:06.11 | Canislupus | its all +AP, little stamina, decent FR |
| 22:06.19 | Canislupus | NO agil, whatsoever |
| 22:06.25 | Legorol | sounds crappy |
| 22:07.13 | Canislupus | i really dont like it, but it will serve as an admission ticket to MC in a big raiding guild, in place of tier.5 or whatever |
| 22:07.58 | Canislupus | since getting obsessed with BGs though, i have begun to appreciate +attack power equipment on a hunter a lot more |
| 22:09.11 | Canislupus | most +attack power gear is approx 2x the agil of equal level gear, which results in equal ranged dps, but the difference comes when you get in melee range |
| 22:09.48 | Kirkburn|wooow | Didn't you come here to ask something? |
| 22:10.01 | Kirkburn|wooow | =) |
| 22:10.25 | Kirkburn|wooow | I'm flying to get my Argent Tabard :) |
| 22:10.58 | Kirkburn|wooow | With the Necrotic Runes - is there anything else interesting to get? |
| 22:11.30 | Canislupus | well my questions are many, and all related to trying to get robinsons ChatBox 1.20 working properly again, so that an update/fix can be posted |
| 22:11.49 | Kirkburn|wooow | Oooh, yes |
| 22:12.17 | Canislupus | my latest suspicion is that it is related to the 1.11 changes in UIDropDownMenu.lua |
| 22:12.35 | Canislupus | but i have yet to find the offending change |
| 22:12.45 | Kirkburn|wooow | :( |
| 22:12.51 | kergoth | End: what's detoggleattack do? avoid accidentally engaging mobs? |
| 22:13.09 | Canislupus | one thing mentioned in the developer's comments is that he is .. |
| 22:13.28 | Canislupus | Kergoth: i am going to guess it turnes off auto-attack |
| 22:13.39 | Shadowed | Canislupus: ( bit late, but ) Depending what guild you're applying to, they wont really care what gear you have as long as you have decent resistance in the 150-175 range of NR/FR. |
| 22:13.47 | Kirkburn|wooow | Philosophical comments are they? |
| 22:14.27 | kergoth | that would make sense, but when? :) /me looks at the code |
| 22:14.31 | Canislupus | that is a lot of fire resistance for a hunter, but then again i haven't been to Ragneros yet either |
| 22:15.03 | Kirkburn|wooow | <Canislupus> one thing mentioned in the developer's comments is that he is .. <--- yes?? |
| 22:15.14 | Legorol | Canislupus: although +AP gear has roughly the equivalent of +agi gear, which makes it good for melee whilst keeping your ranged DPS, |
| 22:15.22 | Shadowed | Well, not sure what guild you're talking about. But usually the ones that are already in nax with a few bosses down they don't even care about MC anymore. |
| 22:15.23 | Legorol | you forget that +agi also increases your armor and crit chance |
| 22:15.40 | Canislupus | ok back to the devs comments... it seems he is OVERWRITING the original friendsframe dropdowns |
| 22:15.47 | Legorol | on my hunter, personally if i had to choose between +x agi and +2x AP, i go for agi |
| 22:15.48 | Shadowed | And you can get more out of +AGI from talents. |
| 22:15.50 | Canislupus | and not ADDING the new menu items to them |
| 22:16.03 | Legorol | that's because i never melee |
| 22:16.09 | Legorol | even in PvP, i avoid melee |
| 22:16.15 | Legorol | stun/slow the opponent and fire from range |
| 22:16.24 | Legorol | my ranged dps is just so much higher |
| 22:16.43 | Canislupus | well i totally agree Leg, but as i said before PvP made me appreciate +ap a lot more because you cant alway kite another player |
| 22:16.50 | Legorol | then you are playing wrong :) |
| 22:16.53 | Legorol | ok that's not entirely true, but |
| 22:17.04 | Legorol | i always *try* to kite |
| 22:17.04 | Shadowed | A Warrior can keep you in melee range fairly easly if they are smart about engaging |
| 22:17.12 | Legorol | so i deliberately not stay in melee range |
| 22:17.25 | Legorol | Shadowed: as soon as a warrior is in melee range, i wing clip and move away |
| 22:17.31 | Legorol | he will do more melee dps than i do, that's for sure |
| 22:17.34 | Canislupus | and +2 ap = +2 melee , +1 agil only = +1 melee |
| 22:17.38 | Legorol | i know |
| 22:17.50 | Legorol | i am just trying to say that since i deliberately move out of melee range, |
| 22:17.52 | Shadowed | Wing clip lasts how long again, 10 seconds? |
| 22:18.04 | Legorol | doesn't matter, you can recast it any number of times |
| 22:18.09 | Legorol | but yeah something like that |
| 22:18.11 | Canislupus | yeah and they have an insignia that breaks wingclip |
| 22:18.17 | Shadowed | Ah, but you have to be in melee range to recast it :p |
| 22:18.18 | Canislupus | and they have an AOE fear |
| 22:18.34 | Shadowed | few warriors use intimidating shout effectively actually |
| 22:18.38 | Legorol | Shadowed: but the warrior is trying to be in melee range |
| 22:18.42 | Legorol | as soon as he is, i cast wing clip |
| 22:18.44 | Legorol | that's my point |
| 22:19.00 | Canislupus | point being if i get them down to 25% health at range, and they end up sticking to me like glue, i can still melee them to death |
| 22:19.08 | End | plus warriors have better melee damaging abilities |
| 22:19.26 | Shadowed | If a hunter tries to melee me I disarm them |
| 22:19.27 | Legorol | if a warrior tries to stick to me, i just run |
| 22:19.30 | Legorol | and let the pet kill him :) |
| 22:19.34 | Shadowed | a smart warrior wont let you do that :p |
| 22:19.44 | Canislupus | yeah a hunter wont out melee a warrior, but i dont think me having 1000 melee attack power is anything to laugh at either |
| 22:19.45 | Legorol | i don't think a hunter should try to melee a warrior |
| 22:19.56 | Legorol | Canislupus: i am not debating that |
| 22:20.02 | Shadowed | Then again, most warriors go "Disarm? LOL!" |
| 22:20.06 | Legorol | i am saying, out of the proportion of time you spend in combat, |
| 22:20.13 | Legorol | how much do you melee and how much do you range? |
| 22:20.18 | Canislupus | and with the proper survival talent i have +20% chance to crit with raptor strike |
| 22:20.29 | Legorol | since i spend the majority in ranged, i go for +crit chance from +agi |
| 22:20.37 | Canislupus | and i can crit a raptor strike with barbarous blade for like 1500 dmg |
| 22:20.50 | Legorol | ok, so you have survival |
| 22:20.56 | Legorol | i am BM, so that makes a difference too |
| 22:21.01 | Legorol | gear selection depends on that as well a bit |
| 22:21.05 | Shadowed | BM hunters make me cry |
| 22:21.11 | Legorol | why? |
| 22:21.16 | Shadowed | Because of the annoying stun |
| 22:21.20 | Legorol | hehe :) |
| 22:21.25 | Legorol | it's amazing isn't it |
| 22:21.27 | Canislupus | you are talking to someone who used to be obsessed with agility, and if anyone ever asked me how to improve their hunter, my sole answer was "AGILITY!!! |
| 22:21.30 | kergoth | hunters are the main problem for my shaman in pvp. meh |
| 22:21.31 | Legorol | it's not just a stun, good as an interrupt too ;-) |
| 22:21.49 | Canislupus | oh, you mean intimidation? |
| 22:21.52 | Shadowed | Well, BM hunters are more of an annoyence then effective in killing me really. |
| 22:21.53 | Legorol | yup |
| 22:22.04 | Canislupus | yah i miss being BM spec |
| 22:22.11 | Shadowed | Since they usually stun me when i'm trying to go for a FC, but the pets in general just help rage generation :p |
| 22:22.19 | Legorol | ok Canislupus, here is an intersting one for you: |
| 22:22.24 | Canislupus | didnt get the 2600hp crits then though |
| 22:22.28 | kaiden | carrot cake is such an amazing thing.. i mean who ever thought up eating carrots as a desert with all these different spices... |
| 22:22.34 | kaiden | just yummy i tell ya |
| 22:22.40 | Legorol | given Mail armor with +agi +spi on it, and Leather armor with +agi +sta on it, which one would you choose |
| 22:22.47 | Shadowed | leather |
| 22:22.52 | kergoth | carrot cake... mmm. i'm all hungry now |
| 22:22.57 | Legorol | example: around lvl 45 you can have the tough scorpid set, or the nightscape set |
| 22:23.12 | Legorol | lol |
| 22:23.27 | Canislupus | i loved the scorpid set, i had about 25% crit back then with it |
| 22:23.29 | Legorol | the thing is, everyone around me said yeah just take the scorpid set, even for PvP |
| 22:23.37 | Shadowed | If you're goal is leveling and not PvPing and mail had more AGI I'd go with the mail personally, from a PVP standpoint i'd take the leather. |
| 22:23.46 | Legorol | when i told them how much more my effective Hp is with leather, their jaws dropped |
| 22:23.47 | Canislupus | and BACK THEN i was grinding exp a lot, and NOT PVPing |
| 22:24.00 | Legorol | Shadowed: assume equal amount of agi |
| 22:24.07 | Shadowed | comparing it at level 45 isn't really fair though |
| 22:24.15 | Legorol | well, not true |
| 22:24.21 | kaiden | i miss my hunter but i decided never to touch him again, and make a new hunter when draeni come out |
| 22:24.23 | Legorol | because i am talking about what people suggestd *for PvP* |
| 22:24.24 | Tain | Always have to look at agi vs crit %, losing too much agi reduces your crit %. |
| 22:24.27 | Shadowed | You probably wont have moved to mostly mail until 50-55 since you just got mail armor 5 levels ago so you may not have the best choice. |
| 22:24.39 | Canislupus | my char is a leatherworker so Scorpid set was a given i think |
| 22:24.41 | Legorol | Shadowed: that's all true |
| 22:24.51 | Legorol | the point i was trying to make is that |
| 22:25.00 | Legorol | most people look at hunter, look at mail, say hunter should get mail |
| 22:25.06 | Legorol | they don't think that leather might be better |
| 22:25.15 | Canislupus | how much more agil did the set have, leg? |
| 22:25.24 | Legorol | they had pretty much identical agi |
| 22:25.33 | Legorol | i don't remember the exact value, maybe different by 2 or 3 |
| 22:25.46 | Canislupus | armor class is worth little in PVE for a good hunter, as is stamina |
| 22:25.51 | Legorol | but the effective Hp value (including the effectiveness of Armor) was higher with leather |
| 22:25.58 | Legorol | i'm talking about PvP |
| 22:26.03 | Canislupus | OH! |
| 22:26.11 | Legorol | as i mentioned, people told me to use scorpid set for PvP |
| 22:26.17 | Legorol | and when i told them i will go leather, they laughed |
| 22:26.30 | Legorol | until i showed them the numbers on how, even with lower Ar value, i have more effective Hp |
| 22:26.31 | Canislupus | well in that case i would go with the leather, because you are equally resistant to casters that way |
| 22:26.46 | Legorol | you are more resistant actually because of the +sta |
| 22:26.47 | Canislupus | and casters are a big pain in the but |
| 22:27.03 | Legorol | but the big point was that you are more resistant *even* to melee |
| 22:27.21 | Canislupus | yeah more +sta > more Armor all other things being equal |
| 22:27.34 | Legorol | well depends on the exact amount of Ar and +sta |
| 22:27.43 | Legorol | there is a turnover point |
| 22:27.49 | Canislupus | if i am not mistaken, the nightscape set has +crit bonus too, doesnt it? |
| 22:27.54 | Legorol | you just have to make sure you calculate yoru effective Hp properly |
| 22:28.02 | Legorol | i think it might have on one item |
| 22:28.14 | Canislupus | notice i said "all other things being equal" |
| 22:28.32 | Legorol | by effective Hp i mean the amount of Hp you have, taking into account your armor value |
| 22:28.37 | Canislupus | crit and stam are WAY more important on PVP |
| 22:28.59 | Legorol | e.g. if you have 1500 Hp and 800 Ar, your effective Hp might be 2000 Hp (this is just off the top of my head, may not be the right number) |
| 22:29.23 | Canislupus | i never considered them much till i started PVPing, Agil and Int and Spir were my primarys |
| 22:29.23 | Legorol | well we both agree |
| 22:29.39 | Canislupus | yeah totally |
| 22:29.42 | Legorol | i'm just saying lots of people laugh at the idea of wearing leather set instead when you have a mail one |
| 22:29.56 | Canislupus | most of them were prob warriors and pallies |
| 22:30.17 | Legorol | well, the person who laughed hardest was our Hunter class leader who commands all Hunters in raids :) |
| 22:30.17 | Canislupus | oh, or rogues |
| 22:30.54 | Legorol | to this day he doesn't understand why i wore the nightscape set, i just couldn't get him to understand it |
| 22:30.56 | Canislupus | you would be amazed at how many people claim to understand the hunter class that have NO CLUE |
| 22:31.13 | Legorol | i have trouble when +int items drop |
| 22:31.19 | Legorol | people look at me funny when i want to roll need |
| 22:31.34 | Canislupus | hey... hunters are casters just like warlocks |
| 22:31.58 | Canislupus | only difference is that we can still do damage when we run out of mana |
| 22:32.01 | Legorol | my biggest achievement so far though was getting Whitemane's Chapeau with my warrior :) |
| 22:32.21 | Legorol | whenever i run a low level through an instance, i wear that |
| 22:32.35 | Legorol | it's become my mascot for low-level instance runs :) |
| 22:32.40 | Canislupus | ?? why? |
| 22:32.47 | kaiden | cuz he's weird |
| 22:32.47 | Legorol | just for fun |
| 22:32.48 | kaiden | :P |
| 22:32.55 | Canislupus | lol |
| 22:32.57 | Legorol | not wearing my plate helm doesn't make that much difference in Gnomeregan or SM |
| 22:33.11 | Legorol | but it makes people laugh |
| 22:33.19 | Legorol | especially in SM |
| 22:33.31 | Legorol | i keep that Chapeau nice and safe in my bank |
| 22:33.42 | Legorol | i had the Triune Amulet too with that warrior :) |
| 22:33.48 | Legorol | but i vendored that, siince it's not visible |
| 22:33.54 | Canislupus | i know almost all of you are smarter than me when it comes to lua, show me what i am missing here in my efforts to fix this proggy.... Please! {begs} |
| 22:34.49 | kaiden | Error.. error... need more data. |
| 22:35.09 | Canislupus | ChatBox 1.20 |
| 22:35.18 | Canislupus | http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=1819 |
| 22:35.41 | kaiden | First things first, why do you want to fix it when sol's colorchatnicks does everything it does and actually works with 1.11 |
| 22:35.54 | Canislupus | here is the rundown up to this point (PS, i posted to the comments section under bdunnaway) |
| 22:36.09 | Canislupus | well, it doesnt do EVERYTHING |
| 22:36.25 | kergoth | sol's colorchatnicks absorbed a pile of stuff it never shoudl ahve had, like pin coloring for the world map |
| 22:36.30 | kergoth | that bugged me |
| 22:36.31 | Canislupus | for one does it automatically color names by class? |
| 22:36.48 | kergoth | yes, sol's can do that |
| 22:37.02 | kergoth | foo |
| 22:37.08 | kaiden | # Enchantment spam is parsed and removed from the chat frame, and placed into it's own box with a hyperlink to click on it. (and it looks cool now too!) (CTRL-click for original text message) |
| 22:37.14 | kaiden | is the only thing chatbox has that sol's doesn't that i can see |
| 22:37.24 | kaiden | and even then.. chatbox's version of that is so buggy that it doesn't work 90% of the time |
| 22:37.29 | Canislupus | second, and this is the ONLY other reason i use ChatBox... is the PLM or player link menu |
| 22:37.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge yammygirlcoding (n=hoho@17924061.rjo.virtua.com.br) |
| 22:37.59 | Canislupus | oh the enchantment spam feature rocks too |
| 22:38.24 | Canislupus | sccn has enchantment feature? |
| 22:39.01 | Canislupus | being able to right click a name in chat window and do a /who on them is a nice feature to have |
| 22:39.09 | kergoth | theres lots of addons for a player link menu.. like player link menu, and aceplayermenu or something like that |
| 22:39.16 | yammygirlcoding | Cide!!! hello!!! |
| 22:39.21 | Canislupus | and that is the feature i am trying to get working |
| 22:39.45 | Cide | hi |
| 22:40.00 | yammygirlcoding | any Auctioneer's coder over there? :) I have a stack trace to show :) |
| 22:40.04 | Canislupus | dont know that i would run ACE just for that feature though |
| 22:41.29 | Industrial | then use it for more ?:S |
| 22:42.37 | Canislupus | lol i have a feeling i am in the company of some ACE developers... |
| 22:43.05 | kergoth | ? |
| 22:43.19 | kaiden | i think pretty much all of this channel loves ACE .. or loves it so much they hate it |
| 22:43.20 | Canislupus | well, or at least some fans.. |
| 22:43.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Swimming_Bird (i=sbird@pool-72-75-107-153.washdc.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:43.36 | kergoth | i just told you two player link menu addons, one uses ace, the other doesnt |
| 22:43.38 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:43.42 | kergoth | ~remulate |
| 22:43.44 | purl | No Sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you. |
| 22:43.49 | kergoth | yay stewie |
| 22:45.29 | Kaso | that reminds me! i need to watch season 3 |
| 22:48.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Dolby-wowi (n=Dolby@CPE-70-94-30-72.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 22:48.16 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Dolby-wowi] by ChanServ |
| 22:48.51 | Canislupus | is ace a seperate install then i assume? |
| 22:52.09 | Canislupus | well i guess i will go with 2 seperate mods to do what this one used to |
| 22:52.48 | Canislupus | i was kinda hoping to learn more about LUA as i tried to fix it but i am just getting frustrated and not getting much WOW time in |
| 22:53.21 | Canislupus | have learned a good bit though |
| 22:54.02 | Canislupus | in time i will probably rewrite this mod, taking out all the features i dont use and hopefully restoring the functionality of the ones i do |
| 22:59.14 | Canislupus | anyone use SCCN along with Confab? |
| 23:01.19 | Legorol | Canislupus: is ChatBox an Ace-based AddOn? |
| 23:01.27 | Legorol | if so i'd imagine it has a steep learning curve to understand its code |
| 23:01.39 | Legorol | Ace addons use specialised OO structures you wont' find in others |
| 23:01.47 | Legorol | so i'd start by reading Ace documentation :) |
| 23:02.24 | Mikk1 | 1. Understand WoW. 2. Understand Ace. Even. |
| 23:02.44 | Iriel | You need Understand LUA in there too |
| 23:03.02 | Tain | I'd start with Understand Lua. |
| 23:03.04 | Canislupus | well i am weak in either area for sure |
| 23:03.05 | Mikk1 | 1. Understand regular AddOn programming (including LOua) |
| 23:03.28 | Canislupus | but i dont think it's based on ACE |
| 23:04.40 | Canislupus | i do understand basic add-on programming, probably better than you might thing from some of my more nubish questions i post here |
| 23:04.46 | Canislupus | thing=think |
| 23:05.19 | Mikk1 | Easily checked. If every third line says AceSomething, it's Ace =) |
| 23:05.26 | Canislupus | but i AM new to LUA, for sure, and there is a lot i need to learn about the libraries and functions used in WOW |
| 23:05.45 | Canislupus | well definately not ACE then |
| 23:06.06 | Canislupus | if so many ppl use ACE, how come it's not even up to date with the last patch? |
| 23:06.18 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 23:06.19 | Canislupus | seems that would break a ton of add-ons |
| 23:06.20 | kergoth | "up to date" is meaningless. |
| 23:06.27 | Iriel | I disagree there |
| 23:06.31 | End-afk | nothing changed in the last patch to break it |
| 23:06.41 | Iriel | I find library authors who dont keep a current toc rude and unhelpful |
| 23:06.44 | kergoth | it doesnt imply an api change occurred, nor otherwise |
| 23:07.14 | Canislupus | oh, well i see some add-ons were broken, but perhaps posters are way too quick to implement ACE in the errors and not the add-ons |
| 23:07.16 | Iriel | By updating the toc when nothing else changes you're at least saying 'We recognize that the patch did not affect our code' |
| 23:07.32 | End-afk | although, I do agree with Iriel. |
| 23:07.34 | Tain | If that were the case I might agree. |
| 23:07.47 | Tain | But more often than not it's, "We're updating the TOC to match the patch." |
| 23:07.52 | Tain | No guarantees of anything. |
| 23:08.12 | Mikk1 | Kinda hard to guarantee anything when there's been no test servers :s |
| 23:08.25 | End-afk | eu doesn't get test servers? |
| 23:08.27 | Iriel | What are you talking about? |
| 23:08.32 | Mikk1 | The latest TOC change |
| 23:08.41 | Shadowed | 1.11? |
| 23:08.47 | End-afk | the last TOC change was 1.11 |
| 23:08.48 | Tain | However, I do still harken back to another day where bandwidth was a premium so I'd still typically lean away from making someone download the same things again for nothing but a toc change. |
| 23:08.48 | Iriel | 1.11 got plenty of test servers |
| 23:08.53 | Canislupus | doesn't look like a very lage percentage of the add-ons on ui.worldofwar are ace-based, am i missing something there? |
| 23:08.58 | Mikk1 | Wasn't the TOC change the other night? |
| 23:09.00 | End-afk | no |
| 23:09.01 | Mikk1 | Minor step? |
| 23:09.09 | End-afk | almost never a TOC change on minor patches |
| 23:09.12 | End-afk | actually, probably never |
| 23:09.14 | Mikk1 | Oh, was someone on here saying there was |
| 23:09.18 | Shadowed | Canislupus: Some people don't like to use libaries |
| 23:09.26 | Shadowed | Or the addon has no need of one |
| 23:09.41 | Canislupus | i would think if they are well documented they would be the cat's meow |
| 23:09.47 | End-afk | (the last TOC change on a minor patch was probably when it used build number based TOC numbers) |
| 23:09.50 | Tain | There's plusses and minuses, Canislupus. |
| 23:10.01 | End-afk | (if at all) |
| 23:10.15 | Tain | However when you refer to Ace you really are talking about more than just a set of libraries, it's a community. |
| 23:10.27 | Canislupus | too many libraries could get a bit confusing, of course |
| 23:10.29 | Mikk1 | *shrug* I'm just quoting what I heard here in the channel. I haven't even logged on since monday =) |
| 23:10.51 | Canislupus | isn't that basically what Cosmos has ended up being as well? |
| 23:10.55 | Tain | That's one thing that some people don't understand or simply don't like. You'll see knee-jerk reactions in different places just by mentioning, "Ace" or "Cosmos" |
| 23:10.55 | End-afk | well, -every- patch unchecks the load out of date button |
| 23:11.40 | End-afk | I can understand unchecking it on the big content patches I guess, but on the minor bugfix patches it seems pretty lame to me |
| 23:11.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Atog (n=Atog@195-144-094-012.stat.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 23:12.06 | Canislupus | my only reservation or "knee-jerk reaction", is the fear that the library is the source of my add-on's errors, and not my own code |
| 23:12.11 | Tain | It bugs me period. I'd like an option to not have it happen even if it's the default. |
| 23:12.33 | End-afk | well, I didn't say I liked it either way |
| 23:12.40 | End-afk | I'm just more understanding :P |
| 23:12.52 | Canislupus | but i suppose if enought ppl use the library, it would be pointed out quickly |
| 23:13.13 | Tain | Well Canislupus the best reason (in my personal opinion) to code is because you enjoy doing it. And if that means redoing something that other people have done elsewhere then there's nothing at all wrong with that. |
| 23:13.54 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 23:14.13 | Canislupus | i do enjoy it, my lack of knowledge is a bit frustrating at this point, but i love to learn as well so it's good, healthy entertainment for me |
| 23:14.45 | Atog | well, toying with this kind of stuff is a nice way to learn things. |
| 23:14.58 | Canislupus | would be nice if the ppl in my real-life were capable of recognizing this as a healthy pastime, but i digress... |
| 23:15.27 | Tain | Real-life is just something you're forced to deal with between coding and gaming sessions. It's not important. |
| 23:16.24 | Canislupus | whatever your passion: coding, gaming, etc, it is a great hobby except the requirement of massive amounts of time it requires |
| 23:16.48 | Canislupus | and the resultant shunning of social interaction |
| 23:17.22 | Atog | well, just don't go overboard, Canislupus |
| 23:17.51 | Tain | Moderation in everything. Including moderation. |
| 23:18.50 | Canislupus | good at moderation of other things, just not my computer time |
| 23:20.24 | Canislupus | new g/f is pretty understanding... so far |
| 23:21.00 | Canislupus | naturally, when she is no longer understanding... out she goes |
| 23:21.06 | Tain | If she's new it's a great opportunity to set expectations now. |
| 23:21.46 | Canislupus | i see some ppl are trying to replace a lot of their add-ons with ACE equivelants.. and the purpose in that would be? |
| 23:22.05 | Mikk1 | Generally speaking, Ace developers are conscious of performance and ram |
| 23:22.10 | Mikk1 | That's the only _real_ reason, really |
| 23:22.18 | Canislupus | good reason though |
| 23:22.45 | Canislupus | doubt we will ever see any discord conversions... |
| 23:22.47 | Tain | That's a function of the authors, not of Ace though. It's just that is a big part of what people try to do. |
| 23:22.53 | Mikk1 | They all believe it gets efficient because of Ace. |
| 23:23.00 | Mikk1 | But that's of course not quite true |
| 23:23.02 | Mikk1 | What Tain said |
| 23:23.38 | Mikk1 | Ace is helpful when you're trying to do the right thing. But you can write bloaty stupid code and use Ace too if you like =) |
| 23:24.06 | kergoth | and you can write efficient code without it (and many do) |
| 23:24.25 | Canislupus | I am still a bit surprised to see so many ACE supporters in here and so few ACE based add-ons |
| 23:24.42 | Mikk1 | Haha |
| 23:24.51 | Mikk1 | Well, while I'm supportive of it, I don't use it myself =) |
| 23:25.32 | Tain | There's not all that many Ace supporters here. In fact there's a number around here who I suspect cringe and curse under their breath every time they see the word on their screen. ;) |
| 23:25.42 | Mikk1 | Ï think it boils down to the fact that a nub programmer can't wrap his head around Ace. So if something is properly Ace, it can't be a moron who wrote it. Or something like that =) |
| 23:26.07 | Cairenn | just as there are a number that cringe and curse under their breath every time they see the word "Cosmos" on their screen |
| 23:26.11 | Canislupus | hmm... interesting take on the subject |
| 23:26.27 | Tain | Or "Saien" :) |
| 23:26.38 | Cairenn | Tain: I'd disagree with that |
| 23:26.59 | Cairenn | I think *EVERYONE* curses out loud when they see that name :p |
| 23:27.03 | Tain | haha |
| 23:27.15 | kergoth | hah |
| 23:27.27 | Cairenn | emphasis also on the "out loud", as opposed to "under their breath" |
| 23:27.37 | Cide | actually, I think Saien said what I think about users in general, just in a... rather harsh.. way ;) |
| 23:27.51 | Atog | hmm, it's getting late, and my brain seems to have shutdown |
| 23:28.03 | Tain | ~emulate Saien |
| 23:28.05 | purl | You are of course, wrong, and I invite you to prove it to yourself. |
| 23:28.11 | Mikk1 | rofl |
| 23:28.13 | Cairenn | Cide: it wasn't just that he said it about users ... he said it about everyone and everything |
| 23:28.13 | Atog | is there any reason why UnitName(target) wouldn't work? |
| 23:28.20 | Cairenn | and he was just plain rude |
| 23:28.27 | Mikk1 | Atog: Yeah, it should be UnitName("target") |
| 23:28.32 | Cide | Cairenn: yeah, I don't agree with the way he acted in general |
| 23:28.34 | Atog | ah, great, thanks |
| 23:29.12 | Cairenn | and, honestly, if he hated users that much, why did he release for general usage to begin with? |
| 23:29.23 | Cairenn | why didn't he just keep it for himself |
| 23:29.26 | Tain | Power. |
| 23:29.42 | Tain | The power to abuse when he saw people would come back anyway. |
| 23:31.52 | Mikk1 | Nah. Self fulfillment and wanting to be a great guy by doing good things. |
| 23:31.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:32.09 | Mikk1 | Not being able to stand people in general just collides with that =) |
| 23:33.00 | Mikk1 | Nearly everyone wants to think he/she's a good person. The few that don't are generally locked up |
| 23:33.18 | Tain | Someone is as "good" a person as they portray themselves. |
| 23:33.43 | Legorol | i must've missed the Saien era |
| 23:33.44 | Tain | If Ghandi talked shit on a message board he's be branded an asshole too. |
| 23:33.47 | Canislupus | wow... deep Tain |
| 23:33.51 | Legorol | i don't cringe when i hear his name |
| 23:34.09 | Mikk1 | Tain: Of course, it's all about relative perspective =) |
| 23:34.09 | Canislupus | yeah i guess i missed MR Tain as well |
| 23:34.11 | Tain | Legorol: Do a search for his posts on the Blizz Interface forums if you get bored sometime. |
| 23:34.19 | Legorol | me, bored, never |
| 23:34.23 | Legorol | but i might do the search anyway |
| 23:34.28 | Legorol | i use some of his addons, i think |
| 23:34.37 | Canislupus | did he talk like this guy? http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/joystiq/videos/onyxiawipe50dkpminus.swf |
| 23:34.47 | Legorol | Canislupus: old news |
| 23:34.53 | Tain | He's actually the only person whose addons I wouldn't use no matter how great they were, because of the author. |
| 23:34.57 | Legorol | and Saien at least had IQ if he could make good mods |
| 23:34.59 | Tain | Purely personal decision. |
| 23:35.10 | Legorol | interesting, Tain |
| 23:35.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:35.44 | Tain | I'm not the only person who's said it either. But everyone's able to make up their own minds. :) |
| 23:35.56 | Legorol | btw, Cairenn, i don't know who you were thinking of when saying that they cringe when hearing Ace |
| 23:36.00 | Mikk1 | Arf. The only Saien hits I'm getting are people saying he's quit wow |
| 23:36.02 | Legorol | i know i used to be one, but i got converted :) |
| 23:36.08 | Legorol | in fact i was quite vocal about Ace |
| 23:36.21 | Legorol | but that was mostly thanks to my dislike of Rowne |
| 23:36.30 | Legorol | but now i appreciate the Ace effort |
| 23:36.41 | Legorol | and in fact i plan to learn how to code for it one day :) |
| 23:42.42 | Kirkburn|wooow | Cide, you okay with this? http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=2816 |
| 23:43.07 | Cide | well, it doesn't particularly upset me |
| 23:43.35 | Mikk1 | Including CTRA in the package .... st00pid. Ohwell. |
| 23:43.43 | Cide | it's pretty stupid in general |
| 23:43.46 | Kirkburn|wooow | I wasn't sure what your view is on that stuff :) |
| 23:43.50 | Cide | I designed it to allow users to create their own mods |
| 23:44.08 | Cide | and as such, they could create mods and upload it as a boss mod package instead of replacing the whole bossmods mod... oh well |
| 23:44.39 | Mikk1 | In how many lua files do you spell that out in caps? =) |
| 23:44.51 | Mikk1 | Don't tell me you put it in readme.txt. Noone reads that =P |
| 23:44.53 | Cide | none - I guess I overestimate users |
| 23:46.06 | Canislupus | wtf is up with wow.warcraftstrategy.com ? |
| 23:46.31 | Kirkburn|wooow | Do you mind if I copy paste your suggestion, Cide (about upload a boss mod package, rather than the whole thing)? |
| 23:46.31 | Cide | heh, I started off as a staff member at that fansite |
| 23:46.37 | Cide | go ahead |
| 23:47.06 | Cide | the core of that fansite is now wow.azzor.com, Canislupus |
| 23:47.15 | Legorol | i decided to sit back, relax and do some laid back soloing |
| 23:47.16 | Canislupus | i dont see one thing there about wow |
| 23:47.23 | Legorol | i always have something else to do usually :) |
| 23:47.26 | Legorol | going very smooth |
| 23:47.59 | Cide | the agn network (or whatever it's called) wasn't pleased with how they ran it, or something |
| 23:48.08 | Cide | so they made their own network |
| 23:48.51 | Kirkburn|wooow | Legorol, isn't that what you _always_ do? |
| 23:48.55 | Canislupus | AGN huh.. well their site is annoying anyway |
| 23:49.47 | Kirkburn|wooow | Wha? It's a Magic the Gathering site now? |
| 23:50.05 | Canislupus | such an annoying game imho |
| 23:50.13 | Kirkburn|wooow | heh |
| 23:50.23 | Kirkburn|wooow | My cards are still under my bed afaik |
| 23:54.10 | Tain | I have all my old Magic cards. But I used to play when it first came out. |
| 23:54.50 | clad|work | i have a ton of cards |
| 23:55.01 | clad|work | Tain: Then they're worth a lot of money, if you played during alpha/beta/unlimited |
| 23:55.14 | cladhaire | i love MTG |
| 23:55.26 | cladhaire | was a tournament player for a while, still have a metric ass-ton of cards |
| 23:55.27 | cladhaire | evening all |
| 23:55.42 | Cairenn | hi cladhaire |
| 23:55.53 | Cairenn | better evening this evening I hope |
| 23:56.19 | cladhaire | as compared to which? |
| 23:56.22 | cladhaire | last night was okay |
| 23:56.30 | Cairenn | lol, could have fooled me |
| 23:56.35 | Cairenn | or was that the night before? |
| 23:56.41 | cladhaire | but yes, its better than a few nights ago |
| 23:56.56 | cladhaire | yeah true dat |
| 23:57.54 | Cairenn | the last few days have all kind of run into one big blur for me |
| 23:58.04 | Iriel | It's Friday, if that helps. |
| 23:58.09 | Mikk1 | What year? |
| 23:58.17 | Iriel | 2006 |
| 23:58.17 | Cairenn | heh, I spent most of the day thinking it was Saturday |
| 23:58.36 | Canislupus | wait... its not saturday? |
| 23:58.43 | Mikk1 | Aight, friday 2006. Good to know. |
| 23:58.51 | Tain | I know clad, I have a handful of betas, just commons, but a ton of Arabians, Antiquities, Unlimiteds |
| 23:58.54 | kergoth | friday needs to hurry up and end |
| 23:58.57 | Tain | And Legends |
| 23:59.11 | cladhaire | Tain: Oooh |
| 23:59.14 | cladhaire | hook me up brother =) |
| 23:59.29 | Tain | I was just checking a few days ago actually, ebay still going strong, could cash in on just my Black Lotus and 3 Moxes. |
| 23:59.42 | Fanook|Afk | i started playing Magic near the end of The Dark, stopped playing a couple blocks ago |
| 23:59.57 | cladhaire | I started a month after the release of The Dark |
