| 00:00.00 | Tem | What I'm more concerned about is that the tooltip methods don't use SetText |
| 00:01.24 | Maldivia | well, it would be very ineffecient, if it had to go to the lua layer for every line of text... |
| 00:01.26 | Iriel | You'll have to do some cleverness there |
| 00:03.52 | Tem | I'd rather not hook every method of the tooltip again |
| 00:03.54 | Tem | that's a pain |
| 00:06.01 | Tem | In a regex how do you group things together? |
| 00:06.17 | Tem | say I want to match -\\d{5} conditionally |
| 00:07.04 | Cide | what do you mean with "group"? |
| 00:07.17 | Tem | I want both those things together |
| 00:07.31 | Cide | surround them with parenthesies? |
| 00:07.36 | Cide | parenthesises |
| 00:07.40 | Tem | that would be a match, no? |
| 00:07.40 | Tem | I |
| 00:07.44 | Tem | 'm not looking to match them |
| 00:07.48 | Cide | well |
| 00:07.59 | Cide | they should match together "by default" |
| 00:08.02 | Tem | er, a capture |
| 00:08.07 | Cide | if you want to do "match this OR that", use | |
| 00:08.34 | Tem | but how do I tell it to match XY OR Z |
| 00:08.50 | Tem | I think that XY|Z would just match X followed by Y or Z |
| 00:08.52 | Cide | I would do (XY|Z) |
| 00:09.02 | Cide | which would capture it, but I'm not sure how else you would do it |
| 00:09.38 | Tem | I guess captures are fine, I don't really need them, but It won't kill me |
| 00:11.19 | Iriel | Tem: You can't for lua regexps, they're only character by character |
| 00:12.48 | Maldivia | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:13.14 | Iriel | But lua regexps dont do that. |
| 00:13.37 | Maldivia | correct... that is perl/posix/whatever regex |
| 00:18.52 | Iriel | Ask for http://lrexlib.luaforge.net/ |
| 00:18.53 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 00:20.42 | Tem | Iriel, I'm messing about in java atm |
| 00:21.41 | Iriel | Tem: Ah, so your RE question was likely answered 8-) |
| 00:21.43 | Tem | I got it working using captures |
| 00:21.47 | Tem | but I'm going to try removing them |
| 00:21.53 | Corrodias | you know |
| 00:22.03 | Corrodias | nymbia's perl unitframes could use a tad bit of documentation |
| 00:22.34 | Tem | no, that blew up |
| 00:22.39 | Iriel | you can use (?:X) for a non-capturing group |
| 00:22.42 | Tem | I think the captures will stay |
| 00:22.45 | Iriel | so (?:red|green|blue) |
| 00:22.50 | Tem | oh |
| 00:22.51 | Tem | perfect |
| 00:22.58 | Tem | thanks Iriel |
| 00:27.09 | Iriel | http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/index.html |
| 00:27.16 | Maldivia | hmm... |
| 00:27.19 | Iriel | Hm, let me give you a better link |
| 00:27.27 | Iriel | http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/regex/Pattern.html |
| 00:29.46 | Maldivia | Hmm, anyone knows if there's a bug in the engine, so FontStrings ignore some if it's xml-parameters, if it inherits from a virtual FontString ? |
| 00:36.20 | Tem | Iriel, I was actually at that exact page, but had overlooked that stuff at the bottom |
| 00:36.24 | Iriel | I've always found inherit/override attributes a bit strange. |
| 00:37.13 | Maldivia | I have a FontString inherits="GameFontNormal" outline="NORMAL" justifyH="CENTER" justifyV="TOP"... outline is being ignored |
| 00:37.41 | Maldivia | if I use font="Fonts\bla.tff" instead of inherits, it works fine |
| 00:38.10 | Iriel | Maybe outline 'merges' rather than overrides |
| 00:39.15 | Maldivia | hmm... annoying |
| 00:40.20 | Maldivia | means I can't use the normal font with an outline, without specifying font="Fonts\FRITQT__.TTF" -- which makes ClearFont and like users unhappy |
| 00:40.31 | Iriel | Can you just fix it in an OnLoad? |
| 00:41.05 | Maldivia | hmm, need to check the wiki |
| 00:41.20 | Maldivia | well, doesnt help |
| 00:41.30 | Maldivia | need to call SetFont, which requires a path to a font file |
| 00:41.45 | Iriel | You have GetFont |
| 00:41.49 | Iriel | so you can find your path |
| 00:42.01 | Maldivia | ohh yeah... I do now in 1.9 |
| 00:43.56 | Maldivia | Woot, that works :) |
| 00:44.00 | Maldivia | ugly hack |
| 00:46.42 | Maldivia | looking forward to 1.10... 1 call instead of 135... |
| 00:47.11 | Maldivia | with Font objects |
| 00:54.34 | Ktron | So, 1.10 is eliminating xml, right? |
| 00:54.39 | Iriel | No. |
| 00:54.45 | Iriel | it's eliminating EDITS to FrameXML |
| 00:55.23 | Ktron | Ie, any edits to game frames must be done with LUA, but xml for your addons frames is still good to go |
| 00:55.32 | Ktron | right? |
| 00:55.35 | Iriel | Yes |
| 00:55.51 | Iriel | I'd recommend sticking with it for anything where dynamic allocation doesn't make MORE sense than xml |
| 00:55.52 | Ktron | Heh, I wonder how many addons will break with 1.10 |
| 00:56.03 | Iriel | I suspect very few, from that |
| 00:56.54 | Maldivia | I have a mod that creates 15 frames "just in case" |
| 00:57.12 | Maldivia | although usually only 5-9 of them are used |
| 00:57.27 | Iriel | So that' |
| 00:57.36 | Iriel | that'd be a perfect candidate for dynamic frames |
| 00:58.26 | Wob | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:58.47 | Maldivia | also, with dynamic frames, I wont have to set a hard cap |
| 00:59.07 | MentalPower | Gatherer's XML file will be significantly reduced (it creates 600+ frames) |
| 01:00.00 | Maldivia | Iriel: btw, running a MC now, with secretsauce memoize :) |
| 01:00.44 | Iriel | heh, I like remeta better myself, for cleanliness 8-) |
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| 01:05.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=Kaelten@68.63.3.183) |
| 01:05.45 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 01:05.48 | Kaelten | hello everyone |
| 01:06.00 | Cairenn | hi Kaelten |
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| 01:11.31 | Kaelten | how you doing it cair? |
| 01:11.49 | Cairenn | can't complain, you? |
| 01:12.12 | Kaelten | trying to figure out why my "straight forward" math isn't working right |
| 01:12.18 | Cairenn | heh |
| 01:17.54 | Kaelten | anyone got a min to help me figure out if my math functions are working right? |
| 01:18.17 | Iriel | sure |
| 01:18.34 | Kaelten | I'll pastebin em real quick |
| 01:19.32 | Kaelten | http://pastebin.com/533119 |
| 01:20.38 | Iriel | You do know about wow.pastebin.com, right? 8-) |
| 01:20.53 | Kaelten | hmm, I think so,b ut forgot |
| 01:21.00 | Iriel | Cute, I wrote standard deviation and error limits in SauceTest last night |
| 01:21.46 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.37) |
| 01:21.57 | Kaelten | lol |
| 01:22.09 | Kaelten | well thats convienent |
| 01:22.24 | Kaelten | I just redid it at http://wow.pastebin.com/533121 |
| 01:25.24 | Corrodias | i think i've decided to switch to Perl unitframes |
| 01:25.46 | Corrodias | the number have greater visibility than those in CT's unitframes |
| 01:26.43 | Kaelten | thats basically what I'm wanting to do get the avg of all values within 1.5 Standard deviations of the original set. |
| 01:27.22 | Kaelten | I like perl, but last I used it it had lag issues in groups |
| 01:28.02 | Corrodias | on the other hand, if i DO use it, i'll have to move my monkeyspeed, pvp cooldown, and druid bar frames... >:/ hmm |
| 01:29.59 | Iriel | http://pastebin.com/533134 |
| 01:30.11 | Iriel | I put in some comments |
| 01:30.15 | Iriel | And highlighted them |
| 01:30.35 | Iriel | line 42: I meant 'local dv' not 'dv' |
| 01:30.42 | Corrodias | there's something to be said for the simplicity of ct's unitframes. i just wish the values to the right had a background!! |
| 01:32.13 | Iriel | I dont think it's really a weighted average either, (the weights are 0 and 1, so maybe it is)? |
| 01:33.31 | Iriel | Kaelten : You also run the risk of having NO result for 2 samples |
| 01:33.39 | Iriel | Kaelten : And maybe even more than that |
| 01:33.50 | Kaelten | no result for 2 samples? |
| 01:33.52 | Iriel | Kaelten : But your Avg method doesn't handle that properly |
| 01:33.56 | Kaelten | hmm |
| 01:33.58 | Iriel | Yes, imagine {0,10} |
| 01:34.02 | Iriel | or {0,0,10,10} |
| 01:34.21 | Kaelten | the reason I'm asking for help is that while it 'works' it doesn't give me good info. |
| 01:34.25 | Kaelten | I'm trying to fix that. |
| 01:34.51 | Kaelten | hmm |
| 01:35.47 | Iriel | You may want to reconsider that 1.5, I dunno |
| 01:36.20 | Cairenn | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=311875&p=1&tmp=1#post311875 - someone wanna confirm for me that most of what he's asking for can't be done? |
| 01:36.34 | Iriel | Kaelten : I'm not actually sure you can get no results, now that I re-think stddev |
| 01:37.04 | Iriel | Kaelten : That curve method is going to be more or less useless for small numbers of samples (say, <20 or 30) |
| 01:37.27 | Cairenn | this guy went to all the trouble of looking up my server and guild name, made a character on my server, did a /who on my guild name to find someone who might know me, to get them to get in touch with me so I would log in, so he could ask me to help |
| 01:37.50 | Ktron|afk | Cairenn, you need keystrokes at minimum for spells, so he'd at minimum need to be sending keystrokes to the other window (of any kind) |
| 01:38.09 | Ktron|afk | Cairenn, so I think that's my way of saying that what he's asking for can't be done |
| 01:38.32 | Kaelten | true it is going to be fairly useless for small amount of results, I'm getting frustrated at my math functions. |
| 01:39.14 | Iriel | Your math functions looked fine, except for over-paranoia (checking variables YOU create for nil), and string.format, which is TERRIBLE |
| 01:39.39 | Ktron|afk | Also, I don't think there's anyway to establish that a character is facing a target, and I definitely think it's impossible to 'move' to a target |
| 01:40.08 | Iriel | With a factor of 1.5 you're going to reject any data that's not within a 86% (or so) confidence interval of the mean. |
| 01:40.12 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 01:40.22 | Kaelten | hmm |
| 01:40.45 | Iriel | But at that point, I'm not sure if discarding those and re-averaging really buys you much. |
| 01:40.53 | Cairenn | thanks Ktron, I knew it, but decided I wanted it confirmed |
| 01:40.55 | Kaelten | what kinda factor do I need to stay with ~95% of all data. |
| 01:40.58 | Iriel | Ktron | Correct, you dont know where, or in what direction, your target is. |
| 01:41.22 | Iriel | 1.96, apparently |
| 01:41.26 | Iriel | http://www.statsoft.com/textbook/sttable.html |
| 01:41.33 | Iriel | Assuming a normal distribution |
| 01:41.39 | Ktron | I think you can 'tell' another account that set up properly to target something, assist somethign, and follow something, but that's it |
| 01:42.05 | Ktron | I wonder how hard it is to pass 'keypresses' to WoW from another program |
| 01:42.28 | Kaelten | eh well its auction house data |
| 01:42.29 | Ktron | Granted, I know it's territory that WoW is way way way against |
| 01:42.58 | Kaelten | so I'm not sure how normal it really would be. |
| 01:47.08 | Iriel | I think for the kind of data you're working with, the standard deviation stuff likely isn't that meaningful |
| 01:48.34 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:49.05 | Cairenn | now, I don't know jack about it, so can someone here tell me wth they are talking about? |
| 01:49.30 | Iriel | I've received that also, I think it's the result of a quest turnin. |
| 01:49.37 | Iriel | Maybe one of the ZG ones? |
| 01:52.11 | Cairenn | thanks Iriel |
| 01:57.26 | Codayus | It is given when smeone turhns in the heart of hakkar - which comes from killing the end boss of zg. |
| 01:58.15 | Codayus | it is very similar to the rallying cry of the dragonslayer, which is given when someone turns the head of onyxia (or nefarion, I think) in to the right npc in SW or Org. |
| 01:59.49 | Codayus | Both buffs hit everyone in the zone. |
| 02:07.35 | Iriel | But, if linen used to always sell for 1s, and now the only linen for sale a week later is at 5g, what do you do? |
| 02:07.39 | Iriel | Ack. |
| 02:07.44 | Iriel | Ignore that, unless you're Kaelten 8-) |
| 02:09.28 | Corrodias | who the hell packed these Gypsy addons? |
| 02:09.51 | Corrodias | the path structure in the archive goes \Desktop\Interface\<name> |
| 02:10.01 | Kaelten | a gypsy? |
| 02:11.21 | Codayus | Heh |
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| 02:12.02 | Cairenn | who packed them? |
| 02:12.18 | Cairenn | probably Mondinga, you know, the mod author, the guy here in channel with us? yeah, him |
| 02:12.53 | Cairenn | would you like some ketchup to go along with your foot? |
| 02:13.11 | Corrodias | really? maybe he could give some insight into his reason for packing them up that way o.o |
| 02:23.28 | Tain | If I had to venture a guess I would say it would probably fall under the category of, "accident." |
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| 02:36.26 | Corrodias | yeah, probably |
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| 02:45.40 | Cairenn | later Iriel |
| 02:47.52 | Corrodias | hmm. CT's bar mod might almost be tolerable... i like how it can remove the menu bar art and stuff |
| 02:48.49 | cladhaire | I can give you standalone code to do that |
| 02:48.50 | cladhaire | lol |
| 02:48.59 | Corrodias | unfortunately, it doesn't move the chat box, so it appears behind my shapeshift bar.. |
| 02:49.16 | Cairenn | http://www.chipx86.com/blog/?p=143 |
| 02:50.46 | cladhaire | =) |
| 02:53.17 | Cairenn | makes me laugh |
| 03:00.44 | Tain | I'm actually ... on Draka. |
| 03:00.55 | Cairenn | *gasp* |
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| 03:01.37 | AnduinLothar | i'd join you but i think my mage is lvl 10 |
| 03:02.28 | Tain | And almost got killed by the first thing I came across because I evidently don't remember how to fight. |
| 03:03.18 | AnduinLothar | druid seems to be the only class still desired most places in endgame |
| 03:03.23 | AnduinLothar | maybe priest |
| 03:03.37 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 03:03.43 | cladhaire | i have a rogue, a druid and a priest =) |
| 03:04.05 | cladhaire | my rogue has been hiding since January of last year |
| 03:04.34 | AnduinLothar | nobody wants rogues either |
| 03:04.37 | AnduinLothar | or pallies |
| 03:04.51 | AnduinLothar | war's only if you're good |
| 03:05.30 | weab | wtf |
| 03:23.18 | Cairenn | I have a hunter, a hunter, a hunter, a hunter, a hunter and a mage |
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| 03:44.24 | AnduinLothar | omg this low lvl druid is boring |
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| 04:18.45 | MentalPower | good night folks |
| 04:19.36 | Cairenn | night MentalPower |
| 05:01.14 | Tain | Now once I got to the auction house it all started coming back to me. |
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| 05:08.25 | Osagasu | hehehe |
| 05:08.26 | Osagasu | awesome |
| 05:08.33 | Osagasu | they're putting in weather in 1.10 |
| 05:09.41 | Cairenn | oh? |
| 05:10.03 | Osagasu | yep |
| 05:10.09 | Osagasu | Rain and snow patterns |
| 05:10.14 | Osagasu | they even have short trailers |
| 05:10.22 | Cairenn | cool |
| 05:10.24 | Osagasu | http://www.1up.com/do/download?cId=2015259 has them |
| 05:14.52 | Osagasu | Wait--is this? It looks like they're adding notice of set bonuses into the tooltips when youdon't have the armor equipped |
| 05:20.40 | Kaelten | does lua have a modal operator? |
| 05:20.47 | Iriel | math.mod ? |
| 05:21.12 | Iriel | or do you mean math.abs ? |
| 05:25.10 | Iriel | do you want math.mod(12, 10) == 2 ? |
| 05:25.10 | Iriel | or math.mod(-12) = 12 ? |
| 05:25.10 | Iriel | s/mod/abs/ |
| 05:25.12 | Osagasu | I'm drooling over those caster pants on the 1up screenshot |
| 05:25.12 | Osagasu | hehe |
| 05:25.12 | Osagasu | Its the 5 man quest gear |
| 05:25.12 | Osagasu | night |
| 05:25.12 | Cairenn | night Osagasu |
| 05:25.14 | AnduinLothar | mod ~= abs |
| 05:26.31 | Kaelten | I was looking for mod |
| 05:26.34 | Kaelten | thanks |
| 05:26.45 | AnduinLothar | mod gives remainder :) |
| 05:27.09 | AnduinLothar | omg this systems engineering class is THE most boring class ever |
| 05:27.25 | AnduinLothar | it's like business for tech geeks |
| 05:32.08 | Cairenn | hey AnduinLothar, did you hear anything back from Blizz yet? |
| 05:32.24 | AnduinLothar | nah. they're taking their sweet time |
| 05:32.40 | AnduinLothar | and i dont have any contact info so i cant call and bug them |
| 05:32.54 | Cairenn | well, at least you haven't gotten a "don't call us, we'll call you" ... |
| 05:33.49 | Tem|MC | Anyone have a minute to help me with some simple math |
| 05:33.54 | Tem|MC | I'm a little distracted with MC |
| 05:33.57 | Tem|MC | and a little tired |
| 05:33.58 | AnduinLothar | 2+2=5 |
| 05:34.06 | Kaelten | 5 / 2 = x |
| 05:34.15 | Tem|MC | I have an integer |
| 05:34.19 | Tem|MC | any number of digits |
| 05:34.21 | AnduinLothar | X! |
| 05:34.30 | Tem|MC | I only care about the ones digit |
| 05:34.42 | Tem|MC | what's the easiest way to pull that out? |
| 05:34.43 | Iriel | math.mod(integer, 10) |
| 05:34.53 | Iriel | I had that typed before your last line 8-) |
| 05:35.23 | Tem|MC | great |
| 05:35.39 | Tem|MC | thanks Iriel I figured it would be math.mod, but I'm way braindead |
| 05:35.54 | Tem|MC | hrm, Java mod? |
| 05:35.57 | Tem|MC | % ? |
| 05:36.02 | Iriel | % in java, for integers |
| 05:36.37 | Tem|MC | thanks Iriel |
| 05:36.40 | Tem|MC | thanks Cairenn |
| 05:36.43 | Tem|MC | I'm an easy target atm |
| 05:36.45 | Cairenn | ;) |
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| 06:07.27 | Kaelten | night guys |
| 06:15.20 | Tem | Iriel, you around? |
| 06:15.25 | Iriel | I am |
| 06:15.36 | Tem | mind another set of simple java questions? |
| 06:16.16 | Iriel | not at all |
| 06:16.36 | Tem | I have this array |
| 06:16.37 | Tem | private static String[] map = {"||:::",":::||","::|:|","::||:",":|::|",":|:|:",":||::","|:::|","|::|:","|:|::"}; |
| 06:16.47 | Tem | and I need to make the reverse of it |
| 06:16.57 | Iriel | as another static member? |
| 06:17.02 | Tem | right |
| 06:17.13 | Tem | so, how do I programatically define a static member? |
| 06:17.25 | Iriel | private static String[] revMap; |
| 06:17.39 | Tem | (by reverse I'm taking about a HashMap) |
| 06:17.40 | Iriel | static { revMap = new String[map.length]; ... } |
| 06:17.48 | Iriel | Ah, well, whatever |
| 06:17.53 | Iriel | You use a static { ... } block |
| 06:17.58 | Iriel | it's executed at construction time |
| 06:18.22 | Tem | hmm, you mean this? |
| 06:19.02 | Iriel | I should clarify that by 'construction' time i mean 'class load' time, not construction time |
| 06:19.47 | Tem | http://wow.pastebin.com/533367 |
| 06:20.35 | Cairenn | Tem: do your own homework instead of getting Iriel to do it for you! OMG I am so teling mom! |
| 06:20.41 | Tem | lol Cairenn |
| 06:21.10 | Tem | I'm only asking language questions |
| 06:21.23 | Cairenn | suuuure ... I'm SO telling on you |
| 06:21.32 | Tem | This is my first non-"hello world" java app |
| 06:21.41 | Tem | so I'm a little fuzzy on the syntax |
| 06:22.10 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/533369 |
| 06:22.57 | Tem | Thanks Iriel |
| 06:23.17 | Tem | now I've just got to decide if I want to hardcode it or programatically generate like that |
| 06:23.23 | Iriel | I made your Map private |
| 06:23.32 | Iriel | I didn't think you wanted it public, public things are bad. |
| 06:23.33 | Tem | yeah, it will be in the actual implementation |
| 06:23.47 | Tem | I was just typing to see if I understood the syntax |
| 06:23.51 | Iriel | Though Collections.unmodifiableMap(revMap) is handy |
| 06:24.00 | Iriel | if you want to make something public but read only |
| 06:24.20 | Iriel | The Collections and Array utility classes should be required reading (It may be Arrays, I dont recall offhand) |
| 06:24.30 | Tem | It probably was |
| 06:24.33 | Tem | I skipped a class |
| 06:24.37 | Tem | It* |
| 06:24.53 | Tem | (or 3 ><) |
| 06:25.06 | Iriel | Well, read them 8-) |
| 06:25.10 | Iriel | Their javadocs at least |
| 06:25.14 | Iriel | Collections is nifty |
| 06:26.02 | Tem | One of those take a normal array as in it's constructor? |
| 06:26.35 | Tem | nevermind |
| 06:26.35 | Iriel | Probably not, it's more about 'special case' objects |
| 06:26.50 | Iriel | like singletons, and unmodifiable wrappers |
| 06:27.01 | Tem | I'm really going to enjoy this class |
| 06:27.05 | Tem | (no pun) |
| 06:28.41 | Tem | The teacher at one point was maintaining a part of gcc |
| 06:28.48 | Tem | or maybe it was g++ |
| 06:28.55 | Iriel | Oh really? What's the teacher's name? |
| 06:28.55 | Tem | not sure exactly |
| 06:29.02 | Tem | Don't remember >< |
| 06:29.25 | Tem | it's a foreign name and I can't pronounce it |
| 06:30.03 | Tem | He was talking about his extensions today in class and how much of a pain it was to debug |
| 06:30.14 | Tem | also how scarily written gcc is |
| 06:31.55 | Tem | I need to change my font, I keep reading 't' as 'f' and thinking I've made a silly typo |
| 06:33.11 | SP|Sorren | anyone here have experience with visual studio? |
| 06:33.17 | Iriel | I used to have a support contract with cygnus for g++ |
| 06:33.21 | Iriel | those guys were _GOOD_ |
| 06:33.34 | Tem | oh cool |
| 06:34.00 | Iriel | I reported 3 issues, 2 were my misunderstanding strange exceptions in the spec |
| 06:34.05 | Tem | gah I wish I could remember the version numbers that he said his code was in |
| 06:34.11 | Iriel | and one was a real bug, but in HP's linker, not their compiler |
| 06:34.15 | Corrodias | "public things are bad" |
| 06:34.25 | Corrodias | yet in LUA, there is no private data and we get along just fine |
| 06:34.47 | Tem | sure there is |
| 06:34.57 | Tem | you just have to jump through flaming loops to create it |
| 06:35.07 | Iriel | I protect data all the time |
| 06:35.14 | Corrodias | why would you bother to do that? |
| 06:35.15 | Iriel | file local variables FTW |
| 06:35.28 | Iriel | Because there's NO reason for anyone else to get at them |
| 06:35.38 | Iriel | And plenty of bad stuff that happens if they do |
| 06:35.42 | Corrodias | except to read them, and maybe to change them |
| 06:36.03 | Iriel | I provide accessor methods to everything interesting |
| 06:36.14 | Corrodias | it just chafes at me the same way games that make you "unlock" stuff do |
| 06:36.23 | SP|Sorren | hm, so when you say have a file and do local blahblah, theres no way to get at the blahblah? |
| 06:36.29 | Corrodias | it's the developer telling you how to play, or how to use their stuff |
| 06:36.32 | Iriel | SP|Sorren Correct, from outside the file |
| 06:36.38 | SP|Sorren | that explains much. |
| 06:36.47 | Iriel | Well, that's my perogative as a developer, i'd hope if you ever use code i've done that in, you dont feel that way about it |
| 06:36.58 | Iriel | I think long and hard about what I make public and what I dont |
| 06:37.13 | Corrodias | i don't see the -point- of making data private, is all |
| 06:37.30 | Iriel | Well, it's often more not making it public |
| 06:37.32 | Corrodias | if somebody makes an addon that screws up because it changes the wrong thing, well, that's his own fault and nobody will try to use it |
| 06:37.36 | Iriel | no need to pollute the global namespace |
| 06:38.49 | Iriel | A good 50% of the code I write is utility frameworks |
| 06:38.59 | Iriel | they generally require that the caller follows certain protocols |
| 06:39.08 | Iriel | I provide methods to follow those protocols, and make it 'hard' not to |
| 06:39.13 | Tem | Captain Planet, he's our hero |
| 06:39.13 | Tem | Gonna take pollution down to zero |
| 06:39.17 | Iriel | I believe firmly in making sure the easiest path is the RIGHT path |
| 06:39.30 | Iriel | It's not always possible, but when it is I try to do it |
| 06:39.59 | Iriel | But also, in the grand scheme of things, most of the code I write is for things other than WoW, so it's an ingrained habit |
| 06:40.15 | Iriel | as a 'user' you've always got the option to edit my code |
| 06:42.44 | Corrodias | i see |
| 06:44.15 | Tem | wow. Pastebin's java highlighting is actually useful |
| 06:44.35 | AnduinLothar | the default lua colors are horid |
| 06:44.38 | Tem | it links you to a google search that almost always has the api doc as the first |
| 06:44.47 | Tem | yeah, the lua one is ghastly |
| 06:46.02 | Corrodias | why does pastebin have a wow section? can you browse it? |
| 06:46.15 | AnduinLothar | you can make any section you want |
| 06:46.22 | Iriel | It makes the 'Recent Posts' bit useful |
| 06:46.30 | Corrodias | ooo |
| 06:46.31 | Iriel | Or 'more useful', anyway |
| 06:46.35 | Tem | hmm. Iriel: I just noticed that you used a decrementing counter in that. Any particular reason? |
| 06:46.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku_ (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 06:47.01 | AnduinLothar | decrementing means you dont have to have two variables in general cases.. |
| 06:47.33 | Tem | I don't follow you |
| 06:47.42 | Iriel | So I only call .length once |
| 06:47.43 | Tem | you still need to know the max and min |
| 06:47.51 | Iriel | rather than each iteration |
| 06:47.56 | Tem | ah ok |
| 06:48.03 | Iriel | sometimes I just assign it to a local variable instead |
| 06:48.06 | Tem | it's finite, so I will hardcode it |
| 06:48.08 | AnduinLothar | nah decrementing if you set it right you only need to know max and assume min is 0 |
| 06:48.11 | Iriel | if there's a reason to want to go up |
| 06:48.13 | Iriel | DO NOT hard code it |
| 06:48.19 | Iriel | You should be ashamed of yourself! |
| 06:48.25 | Tem | why? |
| 06:48.31 | Tem | it's a postal code |
| 06:48.34 | Tem | it doesn't change |
| 06:48.42 | Iriel | Because if you go back and add a new value for WHATEVER reason, your code would break |
| 06:48.49 | Iriel | There's no reason to hard code it, really |
| 06:48.57 | AnduinLothar | meow |
| 06:49.01 | Iriel | .length is fast enough, and it's a good habit to get into |
| 06:49.24 | Tem | I spose |
| 06:49.29 | Iriel | heh, sorry, I do code reviews as part of my job 8-) |
| 06:49.42 | Tem | no no, good habits are good |
| 06:49.48 | Tem | ^^ wow |
| 06:49.56 | Tem | I'm more tired than I thought. |
| 06:50.55 | SP|Sorren | brew more coffee |
| 06:51.03 | SP|Sorren | thats what my roommates seem to do. |
| 06:51.10 | Tem | I don't do coffee |
| 06:51.17 | Tem | I don't really need to be awake |
| 06:51.21 | SP|Sorren | im sure they'll be making another pot in another 10 minutes ;o |
| 06:51.25 | Tem | don't need to finish this right now |
| 06:51.54 | Tem | but... I'm compulsive about certain types of assignments. I do all of it (or nearly all of it) the day I get it. |
| 06:51.57 | SP|Sorren | hey iriel you're knowledgable w/ c++ right :P |
| 06:52.48 | Iriel | Yeah, a bit rusty but still ok |
| 06:53.35 | SP|Sorren | if i have a class that has an int* member, and in the constructor i initialize it to say int[4], do i need to explicitly delete it later? |
| 06:54.05 | SP|Sorren | or will it delete when i delete an instance of the class? |
| 06:54.10 | Iriel | depends how you initialize it, do you use new[] ? |
| 06:54.34 | SP|Sorren | one sec |
| 06:55.02 | SP|Sorren | new int[blahsize]; |
| 06:55.16 | Iriel | then yes, you need to delete [] it in the destructor |
| 06:55.22 | Iriel | Unless you've passed the responsibility off to something else |
| 06:55.47 | SP|Sorren | ooh i forgot the [] |
| 06:55.58 | SP|Sorren | booo |
| 06:56.45 | SP|Sorren | in fact, im doing it completely wrong, thx :D |
| 06:57.00 | Iriel | Glad I could help, I think 8-) |
| 06:58.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 06:59.08 | SP|Sorren | what does delete(something) do? |
| 06:59.15 | SP|Sorren | is it the same as delete something? |
| 06:59.31 | SP|Sorren | the compiler didnt seem to mind when i had it as delete(blahblah) |
| 06:59.49 | Iriel | delete and delete[] are the standard and array forms of delete |
| 06:59.56 | Iriel | to match the standard and array forms of new |
| 07:00.15 | Iriel | In some implementations they're interchangable, in others they aren't |
| 07:00.28 | Iriel | it gets a bit wacky, actually, because you need to know how you allocated it |
| 07:00.40 | SP|Sorren | well, i had it written as delete(mypointer); |
| 07:01.13 | SP|Sorren | im not sure if that's the same as delete mypointer or whether it was doing something else entirely :O |
| 07:01.39 | Iriel | AHA! I found my bug in SauceTest! |
| 07:02.03 | SP|Sorren | SauceTest? |
| 07:02.38 | Iriel | The test portion of SecretSauce |
| 07:03.36 | SP|Sorren | I'm very confused ;O |
| 07:03.44 | SP|Sorren | :) |
| 07:04.50 | SP|Sorren | thanks for your help, btw ;) |
| 07:05.51 | Tem | what was it Iriel ? |
| 07:06.13 | Tem | something simple? |
| 07:06.45 | AnduinLothar | usually is |
| 07:06.47 | Iriel | I'd screwed up my test case generator, so it was testing methods that didn't exist |
| 07:06.52 | Iriel | I had a misplaced parent |
| 07:07.01 | Iriel | instead of type(value[X]) == "function" |
| 07:07.07 | Iriel | I had type(value[X] == "function") |
| 07:07.23 | AnduinLothar | that would do it |
| 07:07.24 | Iriel | paren, not parent |
| 07:07.53 | Iriel | and since all my approaches cache HITS not MISSES, it wasn't very fair |
| 07:08.35 | Tem | aha |
| 07:09.15 | Tem | is there anything like "lua -i" with java? |
| 07:09.29 | Iriel | Not exactly |
| 07:09.33 | Tem | I'm spoiled on interactive mode |
| 07:09.36 | Iriel | I believe some people have written that kind of thing |
| 07:09.43 | Iriel | there's one that emacs uses, err, beansomething |
| 07:10.13 | AnduinLothar | JavaBeans |
| 07:10.34 | Tem | I'll check it out, thanks. |
| 07:10.44 | Iriel | not JavaBeans |
| 07:10.50 | AnduinLothar | no? |
| 07:10.50 | Iriel | that's a standard |
| 07:10.56 | Iriel | actually, 2 standards, just to be annoying |
| 07:11.01 | Iriel | JavaBeans and Enterprise JavaBeans |
| 07:13.10 | Iriel | http://www.beanshell.org/ |
| 07:13.16 | Iriel | That may be along the right lines |
| 07:14.49 | Tem | this looks fun |
| 07:15.35 | Tem | hrm |
| 07:15.59 | Tem | Scanner.hasNext("\\d{4}") |
| 07:16.05 | Tem | well |
| 07:16.29 | Tem | s.hasNext("\\d{4}") //s is a java.util.Scanner |
| 07:16.59 | Tem | returns false given the string "1111222233334444" |
| 07:17.02 | Tem | why? |
| 07:17.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@pool010.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:18.00 | Elkano | Good (whatever) :) |
| 07:18.15 | Tem | hmm .de |
| 07:18.24 | Tem | +9ish hours... |
| 07:18.28 | Tem | Good Morning to you |
| 07:18.29 | Iriel | Heh, memoize is 6800% faster than normal frames, that's more like it |
| 07:18.39 | AnduinLothar | O.o? |
| 07:18.40 | Tem | haha! |
| 07:18.43 | AnduinLothar | faster doing what? |
| 07:19.49 | Iriel | Indexing frame functions |
| 07:20.40 | Tem | Any thoughts on the Scanner? I must be overlooking something either in the regex or the hasNext method. |
| 07:21.02 | Elkano | how is the sauces thing going? |
| 07:21.03 | Iriel | I'm not sure how you're using it |
| 07:21.05 | Iriel | Can you pastebin the code |
| 07:21.10 | Tem | sure |
| 07:21.16 | Iriel | The sauce is going well, I foundout why my test results were wacky |
| 07:21.17 | Tem | http://wow.pastebin.com/533394 |
| 07:21.19 | Iriel | I had a bug in my test code |
| 07:21.24 | Tem | this is just an example |
| 07:21.43 | Iriel | Out of random interest |
| 07:21.57 | Iriel | why new String("1111222233334444") and not just = "1111222233334444" |
| 07:22.03 | Tem | Really I just want an easy way to iterate through groups of 5 characters |
| 07:22.15 | Tem | Iriel, because I'm sleepy? |
| 07:22.45 | Tem | oh I remember |
| 07:23.17 | Tem | because it's new String(str) in the real code |
| 07:23.52 | Iriel | Well, I think your problem is that Scanner is for delimited text |
| 07:25.00 | Tem | ok, I'll look around for something more suitable |
| 07:25.35 | Iriel | Can't you just use Pattern? |
| 07:25.36 | Tem | maybe just a Pattern can do what I want |
| 07:26.07 | Iriel | Cool, so I can re-do all my sauce tests now.. On the bright side it has a 'gui' of sorts |
| 07:26.29 | Iriel | and does its work on an OnUpdate now |
| 07:26.35 | Iriel | so i dont lock up my client completely |
| 07:27.03 | SP|Sorren | if i delete an array of pointers does it delete what those pointers are pointing to as well? |
| 07:27.27 | Iriel | SP|Sorren : No |
| 07:27.31 | Iriel | SP|Sorren : Just the array |
| 07:27.39 | SP|Sorren | hm, tks |
| 07:31.47 | Tem | What's the difference between "X?" "X??" and "X?+" ? |
| 07:32.35 | Iriel | X? is greedy |
| 07:32.37 | Iriel | X?? is not |
| 07:33.10 | Iriel | I'm not sure about the 3rd, let me see |
| 07:33.28 | Iriel | Ah X?+ is greedy with no backoff |
| 07:34.50 | Iriel | so "h?+.ello" |
| 07:35.00 | Iriel | would match "hxello" |
| 07:35.10 | Iriel | would not match "hello" |
| 07:35.22 | Iriel | would match "xello" |
| 07:35.51 | Tem | how can a zero or one match be greedy? |
| 07:36.03 | Iriel | Well, it can't really |
| 07:36.16 | Iriel | at least, sort of cant.. here.. |
| 07:36.53 | Iriel | "(h??)(.?)" and "(h?)(.?)" |
| 07:37.12 | Iriel | a single "h" matches the 2nd capture in the first string, and the first in the second one, I think |
| 07:37.39 | Tem | Oh, I see. |
| 07:37.46 | Tem | Thanks. |
| 07:37.59 | Iriel | greedy being 'eat as much as you can before moving on' |
| 07:38.45 | Tem | so then what would be the point of ?? |
| 07:38.49 | Tem | when would you use it? |
| 07:38.58 | Iriel | I think it's there for consistency |
| 07:39.01 | Iriel | with the other operators |
| 07:39.09 | Iriel | Though i'm sure there's a case where you would use it |
| 07:39.13 | Iriel | I just can't think of one 8-) |
| 07:39.14 | Tem | oh, because it would capture something when there isn't something before of after that could |
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| 07:39.24 | Iriel | Oh, actually I can |
| 07:39.48 | Iriel | "\\((.??)\\)" |
| 07:40.07 | Iriel | matches 0 or 1 characters between ()'s |
| 07:40.54 | Tem | and \\((.?)\\) would match? |
| 07:41.28 | Iriel | Well, if you had input of "x())" |
| 07:41.42 | Iriel | then the first would capture "", the second would capture ")" |
| 07:41.53 | Tem | ooh I see |
| 07:42.04 | Tem | so the pattern wouldn't match |
| 07:42.16 | Tem | but with .?? it won't steal the ) |
| 07:42.29 | Iriel | It would match, but wouldn't eat the ), yes |
| 07:42.48 | Iriel | AND |
| 07:43.00 | Iriel | if you had "\\((.?+)\\)" |
| 07:43.11 | Iriel | then the pattern would NOT match "x()" |
| 07:43.23 | Iriel | because it would eat the ) and not leave it available for the closing match |
| 07:43.28 | Iriel | (and would not allow backtracking) |
| 07:44.26 | Tem | String parsing can be a bitch |
| 07:45.46 | Tem | this is annoying I just need for _,_,str in string.gfind("(....)") do ... end |
| 07:46.20 | Iriel | Can't String.split do it? |
| 07:46.22 | Tem | well |
| 07:46.38 | Tem | String.split wants a regex |
| 07:46.46 | Tem | to match stuff to throw away |
| 07:47.14 | Tem | ie String.split("A:B:C",":") = {"A","B","C"} |
| 07:47.38 | Tem | unless... |
| 07:47.56 | Iriel | Hang on |
| 07:48.07 | Iriel | can't you just use a Matcher, and call find a few times? |
| 07:48.37 | Tem | probably |
| 07:48.50 | Tem | I'm just not comfortable with it's use yet |
| 07:49.18 | krka|work | what'cha discussing? |
| 07:49.55 | Tem | oh I see it now |
| 07:51.09 | krka|work | oh right, lua has some stack automat behaviour in matching |
| 07:53.12 | Tem | Lua has a toy regex implementation |
| 07:53.25 | Tem | it's only about 400 lines |
| 07:53.39 | Tem | Which is kinda nice in that it's fast. |
| 07:53.58 | Tem | But as I'm seeing, you give up a lot of functionality. |
| 08:00.31 | Iriel | Java's RE library is pretty advanced |
| 08:00.38 | Iriel | I think to make up for the fact they didn't HAVE one for a while |
| 08:02.40 | krka|work | I love java's re |
| 08:03.17 | Tem | oh this is insane |
| 08:03.36 | Tem | there has to be a better way |
| 08:03.54 | Iriel | What exactly are you trying to DO anyway? |
| 08:04.06 | Tem | something that I could do with String.substring |
| 08:04.25 | Iriel | So use string.substring 8-) |
| 08:04.29 | Tem | no! |
| 08:04.41 | krka|work | why not? |
| 08:05.04 | Tem | I may end up using it in the final thing, but right now I'm more interested in making this work |
| 08:05.15 | Tem | so I'll keep digging |
| 08:05.37 | krka|work | what are you trying to make work? |
| 08:07.18 | Tem | an easy way to split a string into 5 character groups |
| 08:07.31 | Tem | without using String.substring |
| 08:07.55 | krka|work | can you give me a specific example of what the input string is and how you want the output to be? |
| 08:08.26 | [MoonWolf] | tem, why not use substring... |
| 08:08.29 | Tem | the input string would be something like "|::||:|:|:::||:|::|:||:|:::|:|" |
| 08:08.59 | Tem | [MoonWolf], because I'm weird like that |
| 08:09.10 | [MoonWolf] | okay |
| 08:09.13 | krka|work | and the output? |
| 08:11.01 | Tem | krka|work, to be more specific the input string is exactly 30 characters of mixed ":" and "|" |
| 08:11.15 | Tem | and I want an easy way to iterate through it |
| 08:11.21 | Tem | in 5 character chunks |
| 08:12.16 | krka|work | for _, _, match in string.gfind(input, "(.....)") do or something like that |
| 08:16.56 | Iriel | These saucetest results are far more interesting (and useful) |
| 08:17.30 | Iriel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-interface-customization&ThreadID=312431 |
| 08:17.33 | Iriel | There's the first set |
| 08:18.38 | [MoonWolf] | interesting |
| 08:18.53 | Tem | krka|work, yeah, that would be fine if I was in Lua |
| 08:19.07 | krka|work | oh.... java? |
| 08:19.43 | Tem | aye |
| 08:19.52 | [MoonWolf] | We demand practical use for this stuff. iriel |
| 08:20.18 | krka|work | Matcher.find then? |
| 08:20.35 | krka|work | Pattern p = Pattern.compile("(.....)"); |
| 08:20.41 | krka|work | Matcher m; |
| 08:20.51 | Tem | right I was just looking at that |
| 08:21.02 | Tem | but I have to repeat m.find for each match |
| 08:21.03 | krka|work | m = p.matcher(); |
| 08:21.04 | krka|work | yes |
| 08:21.10 | krka|work | you did say _iterate_ :P |
| 08:21.26 | Tem | oh god I'm out of it |
| 08:21.33 | krka|work | while (m.find()) { String s = m.group(1); } |
| 08:21.39 | Tem | yeah |
| 08:21.41 | Tem | pretty much |
| 08:21.53 | Tem | I don't think you need the 1 |
| 08:21.58 | krka|work | ah, true |
| 08:22.01 | Tem | m.group() would do it |
| 08:22.10 | krka|work | yup |
| 08:22.26 | Tem | wow.. thanks for helping me through a several hour brain-fart |
| 08:22.29 | krka|work | probably wouldn't need the () in the pattern |
| 08:22.49 | krka|work | group() should always give the full match |
| 08:23.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge id` (n=tom@gateway.is.remotion.nl) |
| 08:24.42 | Tem | it does |
| 08:24.56 | krka|work | hmm.. now I know what you mean by memoizing |
| 08:25.04 | krka|work | i just call that lazy evaluation and caching |
| 08:26.43 | Iriel | yeah, me too, before i heard the memoizing term |
| 08:26.52 | Iriel | Hey, SetTexCoord has the number-of-args issue too |
| 08:27.32 | krka|work | what issue? |
| 08:28.54 | id` | ¯\(º_o)/¯ |
| 08:29.07 | id` | morning |
| 08:31.42 | krka|work | morning |
| 08:40.33 | id` | im trying out IE7 |
| 08:40.46 | id` | Very positive about it |
| 08:46.29 | Iriel | So, Tem, I can get a 50% boost on frame method call time without breaking the shared metatable rule |
| 08:46.56 | Tem | Iriel, and the memoizing is stored somwhere else? |
| 08:47.07 | Tem | so it's completely transparent |
| 08:47.13 | Iriel | Yes, indexed by the frame table |
| 08:55.01 | Iriel | Ok.. bedtime for me |
| 08:55.05 | Iriel | The latest sauce is uploaded |
| 08:55.11 | Iriel | I've added more commentary to the thread |
| 08:56.35 | Tem | night Iriel |
| 08:56.48 | Tem | when I'm more awake I'll take a look at the new sauce |
| 08:56.49 | Iriel | Goodnight |
| 08:57.14 | Tem | night now all I'm good for is finishing this thing up |
| 08:57.24 | Tem | s/night/right/ |
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| 14:28.49 | id` | http://wowace.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1038 |
| 14:37.58 | sarf|sleep | Your hooking makes no sense. |
| 14:38.01 | sarf|sleep | Is it a part of Ace? |
| 14:38.43 | sarf|stuff | And why do you create multiple functions runtime? |
| 14:38.50 | sarf|stuff | Is it some perverse need you have? ^^ |
| 14:39.57 | krka|work | do you know it creates multiple functions? |
| 14:40.08 | krka|work | ah... there |
| 14:41.45 | krka|work | how does Ace hooking work? |
| 14:41.55 | krka|work | what are the argument types? |
| 14:43.01 | sarf|stuff | Dude, this code, it... it... haunts me... |
| 14:43.25 | sarf|stuff | 1:st error: you reference self.abbreviations in expandAbbreviations |
| 14:44.17 | sarf|stuff | 2:nd, as krka said, what the does Hook require for parameters? |
| 14:44.23 | sarf|stuff | *what the heck |
| 14:45.04 | sarf|stuff | Oh |
| 14:45.10 | krka|work | that's stored as an upvalue there sarf |
| 14:45.13 | sarf|stuff | Yeah |
| 14:45.20 | krka|work | so it should work |
| 14:45.24 | sarf|stuff | bad coding habit! |
| 14:45.26 | krka|work | can't really think of another way to do it |
| 14:45.27 | sarf|stuff | Refactoring... |
| 14:45.52 | sarf|stuff | return self.Hooks[getglobal('ChatFrame'..i)].AddMessage:orig(text, red, green, blue, id) |
| 14:45.57 | sarf|stuff | this is klutzy |
| 14:45.59 | sarf|stuff | what is self? |
| 14:46.02 | sarf|stuff | why do you use self? |
| 14:46.11 | sarf|stuff | and more importantly, why are people so scared of static references? |
| 14:46.15 | krka|work | stop playing with your self so much |
| 14:46.16 | sarf|stuff | <shrugs> |
| 14:46.20 | sarf|stuff | ^^ |
| 14:46.23 | krka|work | static references? |
| 14:46.58 | krka|work | self:Hook(getglobal('ChatFrame'..i), 'AddMessage', 'expandAbbreviations') |
| 14:47.08 | krka|work | AceHook:Hook |
| 14:47.08 | krka|work | self:Hook("functionName", ["handlerName" | handler]) |
| 14:47.08 | krka|work | self:Hook(ObjectName, "Method", ["Handler" | handler]) |
| 14:47.30 | krka|work | 'expandAbbreviations' is a string, not a reference to an actual handler |
| 14:47.46 | krka|work | don't see a global defined as expandAbbreviations |
| 14:47.54 | krka|work | no wait, there it is |
| 14:48.48 | krka|work | no wait, there it isn't! |
| 14:49.39 | sarf|stuff | Nono |
| 14:49.50 | sarf|stuff | his hook redirects one function in an object to another |
| 14:50.06 | sarf|stuff | I've replaced his evil hook with a new, Ace-free hooking thingy |
| 14:50.55 | krka|work | but expandAbbreviations isn't found anywhere |
| 14:51.04 | krka|work | (globally) |
| 14:51.52 | sarf|stuff | Theeere we go |
| 14:52.08 | sarf|stuff | no, hence why he sets "self.expandAbbreviations" to a function |
| 14:52.14 | krka|work | hm... the hooking looks inside the object |
| 14:52.19 | krka|work | ace is weird :) |
| 14:52.32 | sarf|stuff | then redirects the AddMessage thingy to the new "expandAbbreviations" function |
| 14:52.45 | sarf|stuff | Check out my new, Ace-hooking-independent solution |
| 14:53.02 | krka|work | need to read the ace hooking code to understand what's supposed to be done |
| 14:53.19 | sarf|stuff | Basically: |
| 14:53.43 | sarf|stuff | 1. Set field x to field y. |
| 14:53.57 | sarf|stuff | 2. Put old x value into a table somewhere |
| 14:53.59 | sarf|stuff | 3. Profit! |
| 14:56.35 | Tain | self is your friend. |
| 14:57.54 | sarf|stuff | My self is *my* friend, get your own self ^^ |
| 14:58.54 | Tain | http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceHooks - explains why Ace Hooks is. |
| 14:59.42 | id` | okokok guys |
| 14:59.46 | id` | got comments on the post? |
| 14:59.47 | id` | reply |
| 14:59.50 | id` | im at work |
| 14:59.54 | sarf|stuff | I've replied to it |
| 14:59.56 | id` | all this help will get lost :( |
| 15:00.24 | sarf|stuff | A new hooking mechanism, refactoring so it does not create new functions all the time |
| 15:00.53 | id` | create new functions? |
| 15:01.04 | id` | oh |
| 15:01.04 | id` | well |
| 15:01.12 | id` | i need i, and the function keeps changing |
| 15:01.17 | id` | -s |
| 15:01.32 | sarf|stuff | Not anymore it doesn't. |
| 15:02.25 | id` | you see, i'm hooking 7 chatframes, not 1 |
| 15:02.38 | id` | so i need to call the original function of whatever chatframe hooked |
| 15:03.04 | id` | there is no way i can pass the name of the chatframe to my function, because i'm hooking with that function |
| 15:03.10 | id` | so i needed it to be inside the loop |
| 15:03.15 | id` | to be able to use i |
| 15:03.55 | krka|work | you replaced self with this? |
| 15:04.09 | id` | uh, where? |
| 15:04.11 | Tain | id can you put the full code up somewhere? |
| 15:04.17 | id` | sure |
| 15:04.53 | krka|work | i give up, too complicated :) |
| 15:05.27 | id` | http://digigen.nl/~Industrial/idChat.zip |
| 15:07.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (i=Khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 15:07.28 | id` | post altered |
| 15:07.53 | sarf|stuff | id`> dude, whenever X:AddMessage is called, my code will automatically call X:OldAddMessage |
| 15:08.04 | sarf|stuff | so, there's no need for my function to know what X is. |
| 15:09.23 | id` | that's not my debate, thats clad|Work 's :P:P |
| 15:09.39 | id` | http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceHooks |
| 15:10.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (i=Khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 15:10.52 | Tain | I think you're getting an error because the loop with return self.Hooks is running before you actually ever hook the frame. |
| 15:11.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (i=Khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 15:11.29 | id` | Then i honestly don't know how to use AceHooks :-) |
| 15:11.35 | krka|work | hmm... how would that be possible? |
| 15:12.15 | id` | because self.expandAbbreviations gets assigned before hooking |
| 15:12.23 | id` | maybe if i flip them around... |
| 15:12.45 | id` | but I'm at work now, ill look in 60 minutes :-) |
| 15:13.01 | id` | (wich illustates how hard i'm working *cough*) |
| 15:13.04 | sarf|stuff | krka|work> I doubt that is what is happening |
| 15:13.15 | Tain | Yes but self.expandAbbreviations gets set after the first iteration of the loop. |
| 15:13.26 | krka|work | expandAbbreviations would only get called when the original function would get called |
| 15:13.31 | sarf|stuff | as cladhaire points out, id` is using a malformed "call old function" thingy |
| 15:13.47 | sarf|stuff | id`> you weren't sending "this" to the old AddMessage function |
| 15:14.00 | sarf|stuff | which makes AddMessage use text as "this" object |
| 15:14.11 | sarf|stuff | which is a mildly "bad thing (tm)" |
| 15:15.01 | Tain | The first time you run your loop id, self.expandAbbreviations is not set. |
| 15:15.40 | Tain | Oh I see how you're trying to do it. |
| 15:15.55 | id` | you are right about the malformed .orig() |
| 15:15.59 | id` | i was messing around last night |
| 15:16.12 | id` | it didnt work either with a correct one |
| 15:16.53 | sarf|stuff | id`> thank clad|Work, not me :) |
| 15:17.23 | Tain | You should pull the expandabbreviations function definition out of the loop entirely. Make it a separate function. |
| 15:17.33 | sarf|stuff | ... check his post and see my reply ;) |
| 15:18.55 | id` | Tain: how do i know what object's method to call if i don't have i and i can't pass anything other then object.AddMessage()'s arguments? |
| 15:18.59 | id` | http://lezorg.dev.remotion.nl/templates/mercury.asp?page_id=1558 |
| 15:19.04 | id` | behold my form-from-db-app |
| 15:19.21 | sarf|stuff | id`> See my reply to your post, id` |
| 15:19.24 | id` | in the backend a user gets to 'add a new item' and apply rulesets and stuff |
| 15:19.34 | id` | sarf|stuff: but that's without acehooks |
| 15:19.43 | sarf|stuff | Yes. |
| 15:20.10 | sarf|stuff | Note the supreme lack of ["GAHOOOGA"..variable]["oink?"]["spex"]["qwe!"]["foo!"]["bar?"] |
| 15:20.18 | id` | but acehooks isnt there for no reason, and if there's something wrong, or i am doing something wrong; i'd like to know :P (hence the thread) |
| 15:20.31 | sarf|stuff | AceHooks does stuff that I don't understand |
| 15:20.35 | id` | --^ |
| 15:20.37 | id` | :p |
| 15:20.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@71-35-116-25.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 15:20.44 | id` | http://lezorg.dev.remotion.nl/templates/mercury.asp?page_id=1558 |
| 15:20.46 | sarf|stuff | I dislike redundant code that can be made easier |
| 15:20.48 | id` | behold my form-from-db-app |
| 15:20.48 | id` | :p |
| 15:21.16 | sarf|stuff | ^^ |
| 15:21.17 | id` | yes the colors of the datepicker are wrong |
| 15:21.23 | id` | but that's not my job |
| 15:21.24 | id` | huzzah! |
| 15:21.24 | sarf|stuff | But anyhow |
| 15:21.25 | id` | :p |
| 15:21.47 | Tain | It isn't redundant, and has reasons. |
| 15:21.53 | sarf|stuff | There should be an AceHooks "CallOldFunction" function that allows you to call the function you have hooked |
| 15:22.02 | id` | sarf|stuff: heh |
| 15:22.08 | Tain | sarf|stuff: there is. |
| 15:22.10 | id` | there is |
| 15:22.12 | sarf|stuff | I'm sure it does, Tain, but currently it added complexity. |
| 15:22.20 | id` | return self.Hooks[getglobal('ChatFrame'..i)].AddMessage:orig(text, red, green, blue, id) |
| 15:22.22 | Tain | It adds safety. |
| 15:22.23 | id` | this i need i |
| 15:22.25 | krka|work | hm, i think ace handles the calling of old functions automatically |
| 15:22.27 | id` | thus* |
| 15:22.32 | krka|work | thus, such a function would not be neede |
| 15:22.38 | id` | return self.Hooks[getglobal('ChatFrame'..i)].AddMessage:orig(text, red, green, blue, id) |
| 15:22.39 | krka|work | unless you want to disable the call |
| 15:22.39 | sarf|stuff | Tain> Yep. The reason why id` didn't use it eludes me, however. |
| 15:22.50 | id` | people, ive posted it here twice |
| 15:22.52 | id` | :P |
| 15:22.58 | id` | i AM using it |
| 15:23.00 | sarf|stuff | That's not a fucntion |
| 15:23.00 | id` | but i need I |
| 15:23.03 | id` | it is |
| 15:23.06 | id` | .orig() |
| 15:23.06 | sarf|stuff | that's a fricking table lookup |
| 15:23.10 | id` | .orig() |
| 15:23.19 | sarf|stuff | if you do a Hook(thingy) |
| 15:23.22 | Tain | The original calls are all stored in a talb.e |
| 15:23.25 | sarf|stuff | I expect a CallHook(thingy) |
| 15:23.32 | sarf|stuff | Not a gargantuan table lookup |
| 15:23.36 | krka|work | don't really see why hooks should be object oriented |
| 15:23.43 | sarf|stuff | me neither |
| 15:23.49 | sarf|stuff | but to each their own |
| 15:23.52 | id` | sarf|stuff: http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceHooks |
| 15:23.55 | krka|work | looks extremely complex |
| 15:23.58 | Tain | A gargantuan table lookup? |
| 15:24.08 | sarf|stuff | Yep |
| 15:24.09 | sarf|stuff | self.Hooks[getglobal('ChatFrame'..i)].AddMessage:orig |
| 15:24.13 | id` | its just self.obj.meth.orig() |
| 15:24.26 | id` | its just self.Hooks.obj.meth.orig() |
| 15:24.28 | id` | :p |
| 15:24.33 | sarf|stuff | Yeah |
| 15:24.35 | Tain | Table lookups are what Lua does. |
| 15:24.40 | id` | isnt that pretty? |
| 15:25.16 | id` | gah i wanna be home so i can test :9 |
| 15:25.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge digix (n=digix@66-90-145-10.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 15:25.29 | id` | been writing javascript all day |
| 15:25.35 | Tain | Anyway, no need to argue. The explainations of why are there. :) It doesn't mean everyone agrees of course, and that's the joy of coding. |
| 15:25.38 | id` | DOm makes me agitated atm |
| 15:25.39 | id` | :p |
| 15:26.00 | sarf|stuff | I have no argument with the examples |
| 15:26.56 | sarf|stuff | However, when adding object-oriented hooking, creating new functions on-the-fly, adding them to *another* object, hooking with a third party utility, using a strange parameter called self everywhere |
| 15:27.02 | sarf|stuff | you end up with loads of complexity |
| 15:27.06 | sarf|stuff | complexity makes stuff go wrong |
| 15:27.09 | Tain | Nope! |
| 15:27.18 | id` | self is part of lua |
| 15:27.25 | id` | this is the XML object |
| 15:27.28 | id` | self is the LUA object |
| 15:27.30 | Tain | Yeah actually that's one thing I'm not quite getting, self isn't strange. |
| 15:27.49 | sarf|stuff | But why is it used as a specific parameter in id`s code? |
| 15:28.02 | id` | object oriented coding :) |
| 15:28.13 | sarf|stuff | all fine and dandy |
| 15:28.15 | id` | example: |
| 15:28.38 | sarf|stuff | however, as you have so eloquently showed, object orientation + object orientation is not always equal to increased productivity |
| 15:28.55 | sarf|stuff | with increased complexity, minor errors cause more complex faults |
| 15:28.55 | id` | thats because im doing it wrong |
| 15:28.58 | id` | and its not finished |
| 15:29.15 | sarf|stuff | Yeah |
| 15:29.20 | id` | obj={a=function(self) print self.b end, b='foo'} obj:a() obj.a(obj) |
| 15:29.25 | id` | this should explain self |
| 15:29.40 | krka|work | self is just sugar |
| 15:29.41 | sarf|stuff | Hence why I reduced the complexity to be able to see what is actually (supposed to be) happening |
| 15:30.14 | id` | if i stick two thing sin a table of wich one is a function, and one needs to access the other, i need self to reference to the current object to access the other |
| 15:30.29 | id` | lua is so pretty |
| 15:30.35 | sarf|stuff | yes... |
| 15:30.52 | id` | way cooler then ecmascript :P |
| 15:30.58 | id` | (my job/internship) |
| 15:31.12 | Corrodias | self ref..what |
| 15:31.17 | sarf|stuff | I am just wondering why you are runtime adding a new function to idChat |
| 15:31.39 | id` | note though |
| 15:31.43 | sarf|stuff | then you are redirecting ChatFrameX.AddMessage to ChatFrameX.expandAbbreviations (or so it seems) |
| 15:31.46 | id` | if not self.expandAbbreviations |
| 15:31.50 | sarf|stuff | YEs |
| 15:31.52 | id` | oh wait |
| 15:31.54 | id` | ha |
| 15:31.59 | id` | i just discovered my error |
| 15:32.05 | sarf|stuff | *one* of your errors |
| 15:32.09 | id` | no |
| 15:32.17 | id` | only thing wrong besides the faulty callhook is |
| 15:32.19 | sarf|stuff | :orig |
| 15:32.22 | sarf|stuff | yeah |
| 15:32.32 | id` | self.expandAbbreviations needs to be |
| 15:32.49 | id` | self['ChatFrame'..i..'AddMessage'] |
| 15:32.52 | id` | huzzah! |
| 15:32.53 | id` | :D |
| 15:33.09 | sarf|stuff | and when is that nil? |
| 15:33.37 | id` | true, ill add a loop do disableAbbreviations |
| 15:33.40 | id` | to* |
| 15:33.49 | id` | to nil it out |
| 15:33.56 | sarf|stuff | In any case, I have found the number of situations when I want to *unhook* stuff (which is what all this hooplah is about) to be virtually nil. |
| 15:34.10 | sarf|stuff | You are going to... nil out... AddMessage? |
| 15:34.13 | sarf|stuff | ... |
| 15:34.20 | id` | yes |
| 15:34.25 | sarf|stuff | Ooooookay. |
| 15:34.37 | sarf|stuff | Well, I hope I've helped to solve some issues :) |
| 15:34.38 | id` | idChat.ChatFrame1AddMessage |
| 15:34.40 | id` | :-) |
| 15:34.50 | sarf|stuff | Now, TV Shows, soda and chips. |
| 15:35.00 | id` | :P~~~ |
| 15:35.20 | id` | Tain: see my error? :-) |
| 15:40.13 | Tain | Actually I don't think that's right. I think it is supposed to be self['ChatFrame'..i].AddMessage |
| 15:41.23 | id` | can you assign a nested table? |
| 15:41.33 | id` | a={} a.b.c='lol |
| 15:41.34 | id` | ? |
| 15:42.00 | Corrodias | i'm not aware you even need to say a={} first. |
| 15:42.10 | Tain | If a.b.c exist already yes. Ace Hooks stores them like that. self.Hooks[Object][method] |
| 15:42.25 | id` | yes but this is just part of my pobject |
| 15:42.50 | id` | essentially im just hooking 7 functions and storing them in my own object |
| 15:42.50 | Tain | So all methods for ChatFrame1 would be stored under [ChatFrame1] |
| 15:43.01 | id` | s/functions/methods/ |
| 15:43.37 | id` | you're just adding an extra table :-) |
| 15:43.41 | id` | but... |
| 15:43.46 | id` | yes it will change ;) |
| 15:43.49 | Tain | I'm not, that's how Ace Hooks does it. |
| 15:44.09 | id` | i'm storing it in self, not in self.Hooks |
| 15:44.21 | id` | although that would be a nice option :P |
| 15:44.24 | Tain | Oh I'm looking at the wrong thing then. |
| 15:44.46 | id` | yes, as i said, ill be home soon hehe |
| 15:45.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-223-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:47.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 15:55.21 | Beladona | glad I wasn't here for that whole self thing |
| 15:55.48 | id` | self is easy |
| 16:15.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (n=the_real@62.61.134.59.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 16:15.40 | Maldivia | Morning |
| 16:21.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@75.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:21.40 | Shouryuu | rawr |
| 16:21.45 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 16:21.57 | Ktron | hey Maldivia, Shouryuu |
| 16:23.05 | Shouryuu | w00t I'm basicly on holidays! |
| 16:26.23 | Shouryuu | ~afaik |
| 16:26.27 | purl | [afaik] some kind of acronym...but nobody knows what it means, as far as I know. |
| 16:26.46 | Maldivia | hehe' |
| 16:26.55 | Shouryuu | damn I need to remember those :p |
| 16:27.36 | Maldivia | the acronym that has always caused me trouble is iirc |
| 16:28.48 | Maldivia | ~iirc |
| 16:28.50 | purl | rumour has it, iirc is "if I recall correctly" |
| 16:31.01 | Maldivia | hmm, Blizzard is getting weird with their character transfers... |
| 16:32.02 | Ktron | my favorite acronyms that aren't too common are 'iwd' and 'fbofw'... the first I just say to one friend because I used to say 'I'll wander down' all the time, the second people might be able to guess |
| 16:33.52 | Maldivia | finally figured out how to auto-select area for area spells... and it was so easy :| |
| 16:38.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge subsonic (n=SubSonic@64.17.250.94) |
| 16:42.55 | sarf|stuff | Maldivia> Oh? |
| 16:43.22 | Maldivia | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:43.28 | sarf|stuff | Aha |
| 16:43.34 | sarf|stuff | Needs a keypress I'd guess? |
| 16:43.56 | Maldivia | well, a macro like: /script CastSpellByName("Blizzard") CameraOrSelectOrMoveStart() CameraOrSelectOrMoveStop() |
| 16:44.02 | sarf|stuff | Oooh |
| 16:44.04 | sarf|stuff | No keypress |
| 16:44.06 | sarf|stuff | Neato! |
| 16:44.07 | Maldivia | and it autostarts casting at the spot your mouse is at |
| 16:44.26 | Maldivia | works with items (grenades, ets) aswell |
| 16:44.32 | Maldivia | etc* |
| 16:44.32 | sarf|stuff | Cool beans |
| 16:45.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 16:45.02 | sarf|stuff | Thanks :) |
| 16:45.21 | sarf|stuff | My mage friend will be thankful for that... as will my Warrior and Hunter |
| 16:45.40 | Maldivia | hmm, rogues for Blind... |
| 16:48.32 | sarf|stuff | Blind is not AoE |
| 16:48.39 | sarf|stuff | Targeted effect |
| 16:49.01 | Maldivia | Doesn't blind has the area-select circle... |
| 16:49.05 | sarf|stuff | Nope. |
| 16:49.09 | sarf|stuff | Distract does |
| 16:49.11 | Maldivia | ahh |
| 16:49.13 | sarf|stuff | :) |
| 16:49.19 | Maldivia | well, I'm not a Rogue :) |
| 16:49.43 | Maldivia | well, then Rogues and Distract ;) |
| 16:51.13 | Maldivia | hmm, what do warriors have for area-selection - unless they are engineers? |
| 16:54.47 | Ktron | I don't think anyone |
| 16:55.13 | sarf|stuff | Me neither |
| 16:55.23 | Ktron | s/anyone/anything |
| 16:55.31 | Ktron | gah, again I forgot the last slash |
| 16:56.09 | Ktron | someone needs to make an addon that 'lets' xchat/another client run in a WoW text thing |
| 16:57.14 | Maldivia | *cough* |
| 17:01.50 | sharkhat | I KNOW |
| 17:01.54 | sharkhat | i thought about that |
| 17:03.45 | Ktron | Maldivia; what was the cough about? |
| 17:04.31 | Maldivia | you want to have IRC inside WoW? |
| 17:04.36 | Ktron | sure |
| 17:04.40 | Ktron | I bet we'd use it |
| 17:05.08 | Ktron | and most importantly, the history has to be constantly saved so that if you reload your ui, you don't wipe the convos |
| 17:06.10 | Maldivia | IRC requires a constant stream to the IRC server, meaning either WoW API has to allow real-time communication with the "outside" world, or you need to make a program to inject the text into WoW |
| 17:06.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.4) |
| 17:06.24 | Ktron | Maldivia; the latter of course |
| 17:06.32 | Ktron | Maldivia; since the former is impossible |
| 17:06.40 | Maldivia | and the latter is agains the TOS |
| 17:06.47 | id` | not in the netherlands |
| 17:06.49 | id` | huzzah! |
| 17:06.50 | id` | :P |
| 17:06.55 | Ktron | it is? |
| 17:07.03 | id` | im bound the license i ought it with |
| 17:07.07 | id` | to the* |
| 17:07.15 | Ktron | what about all the 'this is song is now playing' addons? against the TOS? |
| 17:07.27 | id` | how did they work? |
| 17:07.28 | Maldivia | they dont work anymore |
| 17:07.36 | Maldivia | they used a loophole in the keybindings saving |
| 17:07.42 | id` | oic |
| 17:07.44 | Ktron | ? |
| 17:07.55 | Maldivia | which was being saved in real time, not just on reloadui |
| 17:09.09 | Maldivia | For it to be truely real-time, you have to hook into the WoW memoryspace, and inject events/commands directly that way... while possible, and not that hard to do, it's against the TOS |
| 17:09.24 | id` | altering the wow's memory spacE? |
| 17:09.28 | Maldivia | yep |
| 17:09.30 | id` | but its not their property |
| 17:09.44 | Ktron | So they disabled seeing changes in the addons files except on reloadui? |
| 17:10.35 | Ktron | what about like savedvariables? what if I alter those while the game is running? |
| 17:10.58 | Maldivia | have no effect, whne you reloadui, they will be overwritten |
| 17:11.20 | Maldivia | you can ofcourse change an addon file, but it still requires a reloadui to read the changes |
| 17:12.10 | Ktron | heh... I didn't know that |
| 17:15.30 | Ktron | Maldivia; and yeah, i can understand why they don't want people editting WoW's memory... what about the 'video' overlay addons? |
| 17:15.46 | id` | sure they dont want |
| 17:15.49 | id` | but hoiw can they |
| 17:15.50 | Maldivia | that's a different story |
| 17:15.56 | Ktron | nvm.... even if those still work you can't get info out of WoW |
| 17:16.04 | Maldivia | doesn't interfere with wow at all |
| 17:16.28 | id` | my memory is not related to blizzards product other then that my operating system lends it to the game |
| 17:16.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (i=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 17:16.43 | Maldivia | well, you can easily make an overlay program, that with a keypress takes focus, so you enter data to that instead of wow |
| 17:16.49 | id` | how can they legally claim i can not modify my own product |
| 17:17.09 | krka | DMCA? |
| 17:17.10 | krka | EULA? |
| 17:17.12 | Ktron | they can legally claim that you can't use your modified product to your servers |
| 17:17.29 | id` | hmmm |
| 17:17.30 | id` | k |
| 17:17.34 | Ktron | s/your/their/ |
| 17:17.44 | id` | Maldivia: make squares with colors and make a macro program detect the colors |
| 17:17.47 | id` | insta-bot |
| 17:17.50 | id` | ;p |
| 17:17.58 | Ktron | purl messed up... |
| 17:18.11 | id` | you messed up :-) |
| 17:18.14 | Maldivia | no, you messed up |
| 17:18.17 | krka | yeah, that's pretty easy to do |
| 17:18.41 | Ktron | but different than what I had in mind |
| 17:18.44 | Maldivia | well, it's a lot easier to just hook the memoryspace, than create a vision program to scan the screen for patterns |
| 17:18.56 | Tain | There's already color scanning apps like that out there. |
| 17:19.14 | Maldivia | if people want to bot, it's easy... |
| 17:19.43 | Tain | It isn't "easy" |
| 17:19.47 | Tain | It's possible. |
| 17:19.50 | Ktron | heh, regardless, if you're going to do stuff like that, make a program that passes like the '`' being pressed every single onupdate or something, and then the UI can automate everything |
| 17:19.58 | Tain | Easy means thousands of people do it. |
| 17:20.01 | Ktron | save from aiming |
| 17:20.12 | Tain | Tens of thousands. Like were banned last year. |
| 17:20.18 | Maldivia | Tain: no, easy means thousands of poeple CAN do it |
| 17:20.45 | Ktron | alright, I have a meeting, take care Tain Maldivia id` |
| 17:20.50 | Ktron | purl, you too |
| 17:20.57 | Maldivia | and the majority of wow users can open a browser, and enter some quries into google, to find a bot |
| 17:21.01 | Maldivia | later krka |
| 17:21.04 | Tain | Instead of now where there's probably only hundreds botting, instead of the tens of thousands. |
| 17:21.07 | Maldivia | s/krka/Ktron/ |
| 17:21.24 | Tain | Maldivia, the majority of WoW useres can't install an addon correctly. |
| 17:21.41 | Maldivia | hehe, that's true :) |
| 17:22.23 | Maldivia | or well, don't know about the majority, but there are some... less fortunate... people out there... |
| 17:23.36 | Tain | It isn't really worth it though, in my opinion. Botters still can be identified by the repetative behavior, and/or the amount of time they do it. |
| 17:23.51 | Tain | So to not get caught you have to do it less, and change what you're doing a lot. |
| 17:23.51 | Maldivia | all I'm saying is, if people want to bot, they can find a bot pretty easily... it's probably/hopefully get them banned though |
| 17:24.31 | Tain | And if you have to spend as much effort to not get caught as you do to actually play, it is a bit of a waste. |
| 17:24.57 | Tain | Other than to say that you do it, which I think is motivation enough for some. :) |
| 17:26.24 | Maldivia | the problem with running a bot in a MMORPG like WoW, is the random element other players add |
| 17:26.30 | Maldivia | especially the PvP element :) |
| 17:26.59 | id` | botting is childs play |
| 17:27.13 | id` | made a fishbot with autoit (vbscript sort of macro program) |
| 17:27.13 | Tain | Yeah, getting away with running a bot successfully on a pvp server would be somewhat impressive just in itself. |
| 17:27.37 | id` | fishing 100 in like notime |
| 17:27.38 | id` | :p |
| 17:27.49 | Tain | And how did you locate the bobber to have the click execute? |
| 17:27.58 | id` | pixel color |
| 17:28.06 | id` | i went for the red bobber |
| 17:28.15 | Maldivia | finding a 7-year old brother/nephew/son/whatever is a better fishing bot :) |
| 17:28.15 | id` | er, feather |
| 17:28.22 | id` | lol :p |
| 17:28.32 | id` | thats evil :> |
| 17:28.38 | id` | i like it :> |
| 17:28.51 | id` | anyway, i stick to wow because of the addons |
| 17:28.56 | id` | id so be cheating if there were no addons |
| 17:29.12 | id` | no, i wouldnt, it would be in the trash 1 month after i bought it |
| 17:29.18 | Maldivia | well, 7 might be a year or two too old... but who else can find it constantly amusing to look for a bubbler... |
| 17:29.22 | id` | s/\<i\>/it/ |
| 17:29.38 | Tain | I do it for the chicks. |
| 17:29.43 | id` | lern2vimregex |
| 17:29.44 | id` | :p |
| 17:30.05 | Maldivia | what did you try to replace? |
| 17:30.09 | id` | Maldivia: retartd house |
| 17:30.15 | id` | the first i |
| 17:30.28 | Maldivia | s/i/it/ would have done that for you :) |
| 17:30.29 | id` | in vim \< and \> mark the beginning and end of what vim recognizes as a word |
| 17:31.16 | Maldivia | yeah |
| 17:31.33 | Maldivia | well, I'm more used to perl/posix regex |
| 17:31.49 | Tain | ~vim |
| 17:31.51 | purl | somebody said vim was better than emacs |
| 17:31.56 | Maldivia | never used replacements that much in vim |
| 17:32.09 | Maldivia | somebody was right... |
| 17:32.13 | id` | :-) |
| 17:32.17 | id` | i use vim for everything |
| 17:32.20 | id` | every day.. |
| 17:32.30 | Tain | Only in as far as apples being better than oranges. :) |
| 17:32.39 | id` | then* |
| 17:32.41 | Maldivia | well, I do have a vim open right now :) |
| 17:32.42 | id` | *cough* |
| 17:32.55 | id` | me too, i'm editing idChat.lua |
| 17:32.55 | id` | :p |
| 17:33.22 | Maldivia | well, I have my aq.data file open... simple file with 2 lines :) |
| 17:33.25 | id` | http://digigen.nl/~Industrial/stuff/ |
| 17:34.47 | Maldivia | hehe... |
| 17:34.48 | Maldivia | map :W :w |
| 17:34.48 | Maldivia | map :Q :q |
| 17:34.50 | Maldivia | :) |
| 17:35.35 | id` | :p; |
| 17:35.40 | id` | darn fast hands :> |
| 17:36.07 | id` | in the zip is all my custom setting, plugins etc included |
| 17:37.24 | id` | :h holy-grail |
| 17:37.26 | id` | :p |
| 17:54.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 17:58.34 | id` | how do i get output other then the chatframe? |
| 17:58.45 | id` | i just want true false foo and bar.. |
| 17:59.15 | id` | the chatframe is kinds incapitated right now but until what i've done is undone i have no way of checking that what i've done is done |
| 17:59.18 | id` | understand? |
| 17:59.19 | id` | :p |
| 17:59.28 | Maldivia | show a popup... message("Hello World") |
| 17:59.35 | id` | no way :O |
| 17:59.41 | id` | wewt :D |
| 18:00.02 | id` | did nothing |
| 18:00.05 | id` | o wait |
| 18:00.20 | id` | nope, nothing |
| 18:00.24 | id` | ~lart Maldivia |
| 18:00.38 | Maldivia | well, then you've disabled it in some way or another |
| 18:00.58 | Maldivia | messages shows the popup used when there's code-errorrs etc |
| 18:02.02 | id` | bet its !ImprovedErrorFrame |
| 18:02.07 | id` | evil :| |
| 18:02.07 | Maldivia | probably |
| 18:02.13 | id` | ~lart AnduinLothar |
| 18:02.33 | Tain | Yeah IEF is evil. You should be using BugSack. ;) |
| 18:02.42 | Maldivia | or you could just hook chatframe2-7, and send to chatframe1 :) |
| 18:02.46 | id` | but bugsack is anoying |
| 18:02.53 | id` | if an error occurs and i view it |
| 18:02.56 | id` | and it occurs again |
| 18:02.58 | id` | im not notified |
| 18:03.09 | Tain | You can be if you want to. |
| 18:03.17 | id` | hmm |
| 18:03.20 | id` | *download* |
| 18:03.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge lon (n=lhh@nat-pool-bos.redhat.com) |
| 18:03.33 | Maldivia | I should probably install one of those mods some day.. |
| 18:03.35 | Tain | The default sound it plays on an error is annoying. |
| 18:03.43 | Tain | But I got rid of that a long time ago. |
| 18:03.44 | id` | ill change that |
| 18:03.50 | id` | i have alot of 'plum' sounds |
| 18:03.59 | id` | google does too |
| 18:04.00 | id` | ;) |
| 18:04.11 | Maldivia | so far, the default error message (or well, with a small modification) has been enough for me |
| 18:04.55 | Maldivia | what I find really annoying is, that you can hook the _ERRORMESSAGE function, making errors call your function instead... |
| 18:05.20 | AnduinLothar | wtf am i getting shot for in my sleep |
| 18:10.05 | id` | http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/WAV_files/TV_show_WAV_files/alf_wrong.wav |
| 18:10.08 | id` | :p |
| 18:10.39 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar: do you know when the reference for _ERRORMESSAGE is stored by the client ? |
| 18:11.05 | id` | http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/events_WAV/event_WAV_files/compute.wav |
| 18:11.18 | AnduinLothar | what refrence? |
| 18:12.24 | Maldivia | the client stores the reference for the _ERRORMESSAGE function at some point, ie doesn't do a global lookup for the function when errors occurs |
| 18:13.03 | Maldivia | meaning, you have to hook the function before the reference is stored, for it to use your function instead of the default |
| 18:13.24 | Cairenn | "Funny, I never got the impression that Zeus was into MILFs." hahahhaha |
| 18:14.09 | AnduinLothar | meh? onload? |
| 18:14.13 | id` | http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/WAV_files/movie_WAV_files/houston.wav |
| 18:14.20 | id` | LOL Cairenn |
| 18:14.47 | id` | cair im pasting error beeps to use with bugsack |
| 18:14.48 | id` | :p |
| 18:15.25 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar: well, I thought you might know, from ImprovedErrorFrame... |
| 18:15.59 | AnduinLothar | i haven't looked at that code in ages |
| 18:16.04 | Cairenn | whatever floats your boat, id` |
| 18:16.48 | Maldivia | ok... for instance, if I at runtime do /script _ERRORMESSAGE = nil I still get all error messages etc |
| 18:16.52 | AnduinLothar | but i know you can unhook _ERRORMESSAGE in IEF (rather unsafely) and it reverts to normal functionality |
| 18:17.11 | Maldivia | only thing that doesn't work is /script message(..) or /script _ERRORMESSAGE(...) |
| 18:18.22 | AnduinLothar | does ImprovedErrorFrame.disable() restore the orig? |
| 18:18.49 | id` | right i know what |
| 18:18.55 | id` | im gunna look at IEF |
| 18:18.56 | id` | :p |
| 18:19.04 | id` | cause i like it |
| 18:19.05 | id` | but |
| 18:19.09 | id` | it needs changes |
| 18:19.33 | Maldivia | Anduin: haven't tried.. |
| 18:19.42 | id` | i'd prefer 'error log' functionality |
| 18:19.46 | id` | so i can look back |
| 18:19.57 | id` | (only current session ofcource) |
| 18:20.36 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar: but from my observations without IEF, it wont, even though you restore the _ERRORMESSAGE reference... it will only affects /script message(..) calls |
| 18:20.37 | id` | :P |
| 18:22.13 | AnduinLothar | error log isn't hard.. just have to stop the deletion of old messages |
| 18:23.38 | AnduinLothar | actually.. they're not deleted |
| 18:23.48 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:24.15 | Corrodias | wowooo... |
| 18:24.23 | Corrodias | i think the hot salsa on my quesadilla may have been a mistake |
| 18:26.16 | id` | AnduinLothar: then please update IEF to have a frame that is way more sexy |
| 18:26.20 | id` | I'm thinking TinyPad |
| 18:26.27 | AnduinLothar | if you wanna see all errors this macro might work.. |
| 18:26.28 | AnduinLothar | for i = 1, table.getn(ImprovedErrorFrame.errorMessageList) do ImprovedErrorFrame.errorMessageList[i].status == IEF_MSG_SHOWN; end |
| 18:26.29 | id` | that is an error log |
| 18:26.29 | id` | :p |
| 18:26.53 | AnduinLothar | er, one = |
| 18:27.04 | id` | clad|Work: you here? >_> |
| 18:28.08 | id` | AnduinLothar: k, but it still looks rather ugly :P |
| 18:28.26 | id` | AnduinLothar: why do you have IEF_MSG_SHOWN btw, what use has this name? |
| 18:28.45 | AnduinLothar | to differentiate from IEF_MSG_VIEWED |
| 18:29.10 | id` | ImprovedErrorFrame.MessagesShown |
| 18:29.13 | id` | ImprovedErrorFrame.MessagesViewed |
| 18:29.24 | id` | ? |
| 18:29.24 | id` | :p |
| 18:30.09 | AnduinLothar | and then swap tables? nah |
| 18:30.13 | AnduinLothar | less functional |
| 18:30.16 | id` | huh? |
| 18:30.36 | id` | then what are IEF_MSG_SHOWN and IEF_MSG_VIEWED ? |
| 18:30.36 | AnduinLothar | waste of space |
| 18:30.44 | AnduinLothar | just global strings |
| 18:31.58 | AnduinLothar | stop whining about pointless things. i didn't code that part |
| 18:32.07 | id` | anyway i'd have a 'message' object and two indexed tables to list viewed/unviewed message objects :P |
| 18:32.10 | id` | hey im not whining |
| 18:32.12 | id` | :D |
| 18:32.45 | AnduinLothar | sure sounds like whining to me |
| 18:33.04 | id` | only whning was the ugly frame vs sexiness of TinyPad's frame part |
| 18:35.20 | AnduinLothar | what's so hot about tiny frame.. |
| 18:36.44 | id` | small text movable nice colors no red big button and you can drag it smaller-bigge |
| 18:36.47 | id` | r |
| 18:37.29 | AnduinLothar | does it resize or just rescale? |
| 18:38.03 | id` | resize |
| 18:38.16 | AnduinLothar | resizing is a bitch and a half |
| 18:38.18 | id` | try it |
| 18:38.21 | id` | its wicked |
| 18:38.21 | id` | ;p |
| 18:38.48 | AnduinLothar | i made telltrack resizable a year ago and i've never bothered again |
| 18:40.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 18:42.39 | AnduinLothar | whee Thottbot updated from my mac: |
| 18:42.42 | AnduinLothar | http://www.thottbot.com/?p=Anduinlothar.Kil%27Jaeden |
| 18:42.58 | AnduinLothar | that's my healadin gear |
| 18:43.08 | AnduinLothar | in case it wasn't blatently obvious |
| 18:43.28 | AnduinLothar | it should color the enchants.. |
| 18:43.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@75.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 18:43.43 | Shouryuu | umm |
| 18:43.45 | Shouryuu | just took a 2 hour nap |
| 18:43.47 | Shouryuu | ahhh |
| 18:45.29 | AnduinLothar | need a mindtap.. |
| 18:48.37 | Shouryuu | are those hard to get? |
| 18:48.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth (n=amoeba@c-24-20-128-54.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:53.19 | Natasem | Good info in this thread http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-off-topic&ThreadID=1261045 |
| 18:56.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth` (n=amoeba@c-24-20-128-54.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:09.14 | Natasem | heheh http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-off-topic&t=1260904&p=1&tmp=1#post1260904 |
| 19:09.16 | Iriel | Maldivia : Dunno if you're there but, I fixed my test and got results similar to yours, I dont know if you saw the thread. |
| 19:09.29 | Maldivia | reading it right now :) |
| 19:10.29 | Maldivia | the results (fram actual calls) looks a lot like what I got |
| 19:11.34 | Iriel | yeah, I felt a lot happier once I was consistent with your results, as I noted yesterday, the huge variatoin seemed very fishy |
| 19:11.47 | Iriel | variation, that is. |
| 19:13.54 | Maldivia | Iriel: about the userdata swapping in memoframe - can't you just use the userdata as the index instead of the table ? |
| 19:15.04 | Iriel | Maldivia |
| 19:15.14 | Iriel | That's what the userdata test does |
| 19:15.17 | Iriel | and it is SLOW |
| 19:15.23 | Maldivia | ohh... hehe |
| 19:15.49 | Iriel | I could make a slightly faster one by using a memoized subtable, but it'd still be painful |
| 19:16.09 | Maldivia | must admit, havent looked through all the different sauces |
| 19:16.09 | Iriel | I'm guessing it's something to do with how userdata is hashed, but i'm not sure. |
| 19:18.48 | krka | i have to admit i have no idea how your code works iriel, totally crazy stuff |
| 19:18.55 | Maldivia | yeah, cant see what else, beside the aditional table lookup with frame[0] |
| 19:19.10 | krka | hmm... actually, it's very little of any of your code i could understand :) |
| 19:19.12 | id` | http://wowace.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=16527#16527 |
| 19:19.50 | Iriel | krka - I'd hope it's all understandABLE, it just make take a bit of 'reading time' if you're not familiar with what it's trying to do. |
| 19:20.22 | Iriel | Maldivia : yeah, short of minute optimizations here and there I think it's about as compact as I can make it |
| 19:21.42 | Maldivia | Iriel: ok, on a different not, do you know when the reference _ERRORMESSAGE is being saved in the client for later use when scripting errors occur? :) |
| 19:21.46 | Maldivia | note* |
| 19:22.02 | Iriel | I have no idea, do we even know if it's saved? |
| 19:22.30 | krka | well, all i could gather was that it rewrote the uiparent somehow, and then all the other frames change too? |
| 19:22.51 | Iriel | krka: I just use UIParent to find the common frame metatable |
| 19:22.54 | Iriel | they all share the same one |
| 19:22.58 | krka | ah i see |
| 19:23.13 | krka | and the common frame metatable is somehow slow so you replace it? |
| 19:23.22 | Maldivia | I have a .lua file in an addon, the last line reads: _ERRORMESSAGE = RUF_ERRORMESSAGE; but /script sldghsd still calls the original _ERRORMESSAGE defined in BasicControls.xml |
| 19:23.40 | Corrodias | UIParent = somethingElse? >_> |
| 19:24.00 | Iriel | krka: The __index method is pretty slow, so yes, I replace it. |
| 19:24.56 | krka | do we have some way of knowing how it works or is it internal c? |
| 19:25.07 | Maldivia | internal C |
| 19:25.16 | Iriel | Maldivia : My next guesses would be "first time it got called" or "when FrameXML is done loading" |
| 19:25.31 | Iriel | krka: It's internal C++, there was some discussion of its functioning a while back when I first noticed it was slow |
| 19:26.09 | Maldivia | Iriel: well, no error occur during load, and "when FrameXML is done", then mods like ImprovedErrorFrame wouldn't work... |
| 19:26.39 | Maldivia | Iriel: IEF hooks _ERRORMESSAGE, but tries to be the first mod to load (by prefixing the foldername with !) |
| 19:30.35 | Beladona | Public IE7 preview is out |
| 19:30.53 | Maldivia | and can't be uninstalled, if you install it... just a warning |
| 19:30.53 | MentalPower | link? |
| 19:31.12 | MentalPower | good warning |
| 19:31.16 | krka | just delete your wine directory |
| 19:31.18 | Beladona | http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Releases_Public_IE7_Preview/1138730039 |
| 19:31.19 | Maldivia | http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/ie7/tour/default.mspx |
| 19:31.51 | Beladona | I don't care if I can't install it |
| 19:31.54 | Beladona | uninstall |
| 19:32.00 | Beladona | use firefox anyway, jsut curious |
| 19:32.06 | Maldivia | I agre... I don't if I can't install it :) |
| 19:32.21 | Beladona | last I heard they caved in and moved the tab bar below the menu bar, like firefox has it |
| 19:32.23 | MentalPower | that was for krka |
| 19:33.04 | Maldivia | hmm... *tried to install a spellchecker into the fingers, and fails* |
| 19:34.29 | krka | you can probably run wine in windows |
| 19:34.36 | krka | use cygwin or something |
| 19:35.03 | Maldivia | well, then you might aswell just use VMWare or similar... |
| 19:35.17 | krka | emulators are slower |
| 19:35.43 | Maldivia | so, you dont think Windows -> Cygwin -> X-Window -> Wine is slow ? |
| 19:35.57 | Beladona | yes |
| 19:36.31 | Beladona | however Windows -> wipe -> X-Windows -> wine is fast |
| 19:36.35 | Beladona | lol |
| 19:37.54 | Corrodias | wipe? >_> |
| 19:38.01 | Corrodias | i must examine! |
| 19:38.45 | Corrodias | i am not finding this as a product |
| 19:39.20 | Beladona | wipe, the process, not the product |
| 19:39.28 | krka | why would it be slow? |
| 19:39.33 | krka | no emulation |
| 19:39.51 | Corrodias | process? like... a running .exe, or a way of doing things? |
| 19:40.01 | Beladona | I MUST ask this |
| 19:40.10 | Beladona | why the hell are you trying to run wine on windows anyway? |
| 19:40.26 | Corrodias | maybe he's trying to divide by zero |
| 19:40.30 | krka | dont think anyone is, it was just a suggestion |
| 19:41.00 | Beladona | I mean, that is like wearing a rain coat, over your rain coat, to keep your first rain coat from getting wet |
| 19:44.25 | id` | get on irc |
| 19:44.26 | id` | :p |
| 19:44.48 | id` | lol @ my scorpion growling |
| 19:45.11 | id` | i name my pets rapizzle scorpizzle etc :p |
| 19:45.36 | krka | well, wine is probably a lot safer than windows |
| 19:45.37 | Corrodias | ONE thing the alliance has an advantage in is the comparatively smaller size of their warriors |
| 19:45.42 | krka | could use it to try unsecure programs |
| 19:45.47 | krka | maybe, not sure :) |
| 20:06.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku__ (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:06.49 | Ktron|afk | heh, quick, horde, replace all the human race models with tauren's scaled up if possible and make their textures magenta |
| 20:11.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qwxyr (n=qw@201.80-202-198.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:14.54 | id` | no, do it for gnomes |
| 20:14.55 | id` | :p |
| 20:17.56 | Maldivia | grr |
| 20:18.04 | Ktron|afk | s/human/alliance/ |
| 20:18.38 | id` | http://wowace.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=16537#16537 |
| 20:20.09 | Ktron|afk | what does it do? replace 'lol' with '{Lauging out Loud}'? |
| 20:20.40 | Beladona | makes curly fries |
| 20:20.48 | Ktron|afk | and I'm not sure if I follow the regex well enough to understand... some method of returning the date upon something I think ;) |
| 20:20.49 | Beladona | with optional soda |
| 20:20.53 | Ktron|afk | woo woo |
| 20:21.03 | Ktron|afk | do I get well fed buff? |
| 20:21.28 | Beladona | I am writing a guide "Writing a wife in LUA: Part 1" |
| 20:21.32 | Beladona | oh |
| 20:22.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth (n=amoeba@c-24-22-31-104.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:33.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (n=astrayca@adsl-67-121-136-30.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 20:35.44 | Maldivia | Ahh... finally know why IEF works... |
| 20:36.01 | Iriel | Does it hook the stuff that _ERRORMESSAGE _calls_ instead? |
| 20:36.27 | Maldivia | ot hooks it etc... but what makes it work, is that it overwrites ScriptErrors.Show |
| 20:37.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@81-174-44-137.f5.ngi.it) |
| 20:41.34 | Maldivia | it just annoys me, that I can't hook _ERRORMESSAGE... :) |
| 20:41.56 | Iriel | Well, you CAN hook it, but it doesn't do you any good, which is likely more annoying 8-) |
| 20:42.05 | Maldivia | yeah, ok... |
| 20:42.07 | Iriel | At least if it said "You can't hook that" you'd feel better |
| 20:42.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qwxyr (n=qw@201.80-202-198.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:42.51 | Maldivia | well, I know hooking the SetText or Show on ScriptErrors can be used as a "work around"... but it's not nearly as nice, as just hooking the lua function |
| 20:44.27 | Iriel | You know, if you dont wan tot hook ScriptErrors... |
| 20:44.43 | Iriel | You could use setfenv on _ERRORMESSAGE so it calls those methods on an object of your choosing |
| 20:45.33 | Maldivia | I'm not quite following.. |
| 20:46.14 | Iriel | env = { ScriptErrors = YourCaptureObject, debuginfo = debuginfo } |
| 20:46.20 | Iriel | setfenv(_ERRORMESSAGE, env) |
| 20:47.52 | Maldivia | Ahh yeah... but I'll still have to hook the SetText or Show function, just on my own frame now instead... |
| 20:48.34 | Iriel | Well, your object wouldn't be a frame |
| 20:48.42 | Iriel | it'd be an object with simple methods |
| 20:48.56 | Iriel | so you would be IMPLEMENTING the methods, not hooking other ones |
| 20:49.03 | Maldivia | yeah ok :) |
| 20:51.10 | Iriel | You could even do |
| 20:51.18 | Iriel | env = { ScriptErrors = YourCaptureObject } |
| 20:51.31 | Iriel | setmetatable(env, { __index = getfenv(0) }) |
| 20:54.05 | Iriel | Or better still |
| 20:54.13 | Iriel | setmetatable(env, { __index = getfenv(_ERRORMESSAGE) }) |
| 20:54.21 | Iriel | Which is essentially environment hooking 8-) |
| 20:56.20 | Maldivia | well, I don't really see why it's necessary to have this "static" reference to _ERRORMESSAGE, instead of just looking it up when needed |
| 20:56.41 | Tem | Hey Iriel, remember all that garbage last night with regexes? |
| 20:57.00 | Iriel | Tem: yes |
| 20:57.00 | Tem | after forever of making it work |
| 20:57.00 | Tem | I'm using string.substring |
| 20:57.02 | Iriel | Maldivia : Possibly performance, or security, or something |
| 20:57.22 | Iriel | Tem: The 'right' choice for the problem at hand, but I understand your rationale for wanting to know how to do it the other way |
| 20:57.27 | Maldivia | well, performance... it's an error message, and if coded right, the function should never be called... |
| 20:58.00 | Iriel | Maldivia : I figured it may be using the same 'subsystem,' of the C++ code that gets hold of other global references |
| 20:58.53 | Maldivia | are there other such static references ? |
| 20:59.14 | Iriel | the game client fiddles with GameTooltip |
| 20:59.20 | Iriel | but it may do that ENTIRELY in c++ land |
| 20:59.45 | Maldivia | hmm... I think Tem (or Tain) proved it was entirely in C++ land |
| 21:00.01 | Iriel | How? that's unprovable without disassembling the code |
| 21:00.07 | Maldivia | by hooking the SetText function on the TextLeft/Right#, and it was never called |
| 21:00.14 | Iriel | I'm not talking about that |
| 21:00.20 | Iriel | That part IS in c++ land tho |
| 21:00.25 | Iriel | I mean for in-world-object mouseover |
| 21:01.11 | Iriel | The client also dereferences global format strings, does it do those on-the-fly or do they 'stick' ? |
| 21:02.12 | Maldivia | well, setting ITEM_CREATED_BY to "", maked the Made by <name> not appear on tooltips on crafted items |
| 21:02.42 | Maldivia | so that's read from lua when the C++ generates the tooltip |
| 21:03.37 | Iriel | You know, that has great implications for 'robust' tooltip parsing |
| 21:04.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge elemaIaway (n=ele_ma@p548AF098.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:04.15 | elemaIaway | hy guys |
| 21:04.33 | Maldivia | You can feed wrong data to tooltip that way - is that what you're thinking of ? |
| 21:04.35 | Cairenn | hi elemaIaway |
| 21:04.55 | Iriel | Well, you can tag the format strings, so there's no doubt about which line is which |
| 21:04.57 | elemaIaway | where the hell si the localisation of the blizzard'ish script files done? |
| 21:05.32 | Iriel | They just get a different GlobalStrings.lua |
| 21:05.59 | elema | oh I see |
| 21:06.03 | elema | thanks |
| 21:06.25 | Maldivia | hehe... /script ITEM_CREATED_BY = "%s %s %s %s %s %s %s"... hover mouse over a crafted item = crash :) |
| 21:06.30 | elema | hui 5000 lines of code ;) |
| 21:06.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 21:06.59 | Iriel | Maldivia - trying to be the next Tem? |
| 21:07.00 | Cairenn | Beladona: dolby response |
| 21:08.12 | Maldivia | Iriel: it wasn't on purpose... :| heh |
| 21:08.26 | Iriel | I'm sure Tem claims the same |
| 21:09.14 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 21:10.51 | Maldivia | actually pretty interesting... all the item-tooltip text, is generated from constants in GlobalStrings |
| 21:11.46 | Iriel | So in theory you could prefix each line with something |
| 21:11.52 | Iriel | and then parse the tooltip much more soundly |
| 21:12.05 | Maldivia | not just in theory |
| 21:12.35 | Maldivia | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:12.50 | Maldivia | and wupty, no more spirit in tooltips :) |
| 21:22.22 | Tem|WoW | uh oh |
| 21:22.26 | Tem|WoW | I just crashed too |
| 21:22.48 | Tem|WoW | If you put things it doesn't expect in the format string |
| 21:22.53 | Tem|WoW | the C end doesn't like it |
| 21:23.08 | Maldivia | yeah :) |
| 21:23.15 | Tem|WoW | yay! I haven't made a crash wow post in a while |
| 21:23.29 | Tem|WoW | or would you prefer to do it? |
| 21:23.32 | Maldivia | yes yes... just take all the credit*sob* hehe |
| 21:23.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@75.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:23.45 | Shouryuu | rawr? |
| 21:23.51 | Cairenn | *purr* |
| 21:23.57 | Maldivia | *growl* |
| 21:24.02 | Shouryuu | *cower* |
| 21:24.18 | Shouryuu | anyone here seen Wonderful Day? |
| 21:25.39 | AnduinLothar | moo |
| 21:25.48 | Cairenn | *purr* |
| 21:29.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (n=andrews@202-180-118-60.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 21:30.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 21:30.28 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 21:30.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wowguru-9950 (n=wowguru-@dpclt034222.direcpc.com) |
| 21:31.06 | Corrodias | i want an addon titled Magnesium |
| 21:31.28 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 21:31.33 | Shouryuu | maybe Food or something |
| 21:32.17 | Beladona | meow |
| 21:32.30 | Beladona | finally, a break from the hell that is work |
| 21:32.38 | Corrodias | great! make me a Magnesium addon. |
| 21:32.44 | Beladona | ehh? |
| 21:34.33 | Corrodias | an addon named "magnesium". GO GO GO |
| 21:34.44 | Cairenn | *purr* |
| 21:35.21 | Maldivia | Tem: did you post, or should I ? |
| 21:35.32 | Beladona | err, maybe an Addon that does something for Alchemists? |
| 21:35.35 | Beladona | lol |
| 21:36.00 | Iriel | Hm: Magnesium : Shiny when polished but goes dull real fast? |
| 21:36.42 | AnduinLothar | reasts with water |
| 21:37.02 | Iriel | Magnesium doesn't react with water |
| 21:37.17 | Iriel | You're thinking one a little further down the chart |
| 21:37.19 | Corrodias | i think it reacts with HCl |
| 21:37.33 | Corrodias | or is that O2 when burned... |
| 21:38.37 | Iriel | It does react with steam tho |
| 21:38.55 | Iriel | (if the magnesium is heated) |
| 21:39.11 | Maldivia | Magnesium reacts with water, if it in powder form (larger surface) |
| 21:40.11 | Iriel | it oxidises, but I dont think it's a vigorous reaction is it? |
| 21:40.24 | Corrodias | ah, it burns with nitrogen! |
| 21:40.28 | Corrodias | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium |
| 21:41.15 | Maldivia | Iriel: Mg powder explodes in water |
| 21:41.30 | Tem|WoW | It burns nicely :) |
| 21:41.43 | Tem|WoW | Ala hindenburg |
| 21:41.43 | AnduinLothar | that's what i was thinking.. |
| 21:41.54 | Depherios | lol |
| 21:41.59 | Tem|WoW | Maldivia, I hadn't posted yet, but I will |
| 21:42.16 | Iriel | Burning or molten magnesium metal reacts violently with water. |
| 21:42.18 | Maldivia | OK, I'll reference the post in a post I'm writing right now :) |
| 21:42.30 | Iriel | COLD it just oxidises |
| 21:42.45 | Maldivia | "Magnesium powder is an explosive hazard" |
| 21:43.11 | Iriel | it does ignite readily if you have a heat source around |
| 21:43.42 | Corrodias | i don't know about you, but that gives me absolutely no ideas for an addon. |
| 21:43.50 | Corrodias | except something that reacts violently with Sea |
| 21:44.28 | Shouryuu | LOL |
| 21:44.30 | Shouryuu | whoops |
| 21:44.31 | Shouryuu | caps |
| 21:44.32 | Iriel | It used to be used for flash photography, maybe something dealing with screenshots |
| 21:44.47 | Shouryuu | make it an acronym :P |
| 21:45.05 | Iriel | Or a hindenburg joke, it could say "Oh the humanity!" every time you observe more than X kills in a given time period |
| 21:45.21 | Depherios | or when the zep glitches and you fall in the ocean? |
| 21:45.27 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 21:45.35 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.4) |
| 21:46.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 21:46.57 | id` | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Use_Regular_Expressions |
| 21:47.01 | Depherios | my new favorite macro... auto uses Troll berserking when I mount |
| 21:47.02 | id` | how do i use atoms |
| 21:47.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wowguru-5623 (i=WoWGuruJ@82.26.230.0) |
| 21:47.25 | wowguru-5623 | Hey |
| 21:47.30 | Shouryuu | what does the new berserker do? |
| 21:47.31 | Shouryuu | hello |
| 21:47.39 | Cairenn | hi |
| 21:47.43 | Depherios | speeds up cast time by 10-30% depending on health |
| 21:47.46 | Gryphen | heya |
| 21:47.50 | Depherios | anything with a casting bar |
| 21:47.54 | wowguru-5623 | how do i change me Nick? lol i am new here |
| 21:48.04 | Depherios | including mining, opening chests, hearthstone, or flag caps XD |
| 21:48.08 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:48.11 | Shouryuu | type /nick nick |
| 21:48.16 | Corrodias | MAGNESIUM - Maury's Addon that Now Enhances Some Interfaces, Usually Mine |
| 21:48.17 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 21:48.21 | Shouryuu | cair makes more sens |
| 21:48.24 | id` | nononono dont do /nick |
| 21:48.26 | Neraph | wee ^^ ty peole |
| 21:48.26 | id` | http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/ |
| 21:48.28 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 21:48.28 | id` | read this |
| 21:48.42 | Depherios | lol id |
| 21:48.44 | Shouryuu | cor - My english teacher is called Maury =( |
| 21:48.46 | id` | :B |
| 21:48.52 | Tem|WoW | h'ok |
| 21:48.53 | Tem|WoW | posted |
| 21:48.59 | id` | 'hokhay |
| 21:49.04 | Neraph | Anyone here from Darksorrow? |
| 21:49.08 | id` | me |
| 21:49.13 | id` | im on all servers |
| 21:49.14 | Shouryuu | darksorrow? |
| 21:49.14 | Neraph | nice :) |
| 21:49.16 | id` | (EU) |
| 21:49.16 | id` | :p |
| 21:49.21 | Shouryuu | ahhh |
| 21:49.35 | Neraph | cool... i gots my warrior there :) |
| 21:49.49 | id` | next game i buy with an actualy community will be US |
| 21:49.50 | id` | :| |
| 21:49.54 | id` | -y |
| 21:49.56 | Neraph | horde or allied? |
| 21:50.01 | id` | horde, duh :> |
| 21:50.09 | Depherios | lol! |
| 21:50.19 | Neraph | whats your name in game... i'll wave if i see ya :P |
| 21:50.30 | id` | me eat pointy ear girlie girls for breakfast |
| 21:50.34 | id` | Industrial |
| 21:51.13 | Neraph | as you can guess my name in game is Neraph... i'll wave when/if i see you :) |
| 21:51.17 | id` | (yes sorry my character isn't so bright.. you know that accident with the kodo...) |
| 21:51.42 | Depherios | oh crap |
| 21:51.44 | Depherios | that reminds me |
| 21:51.46 | id` | (in her childhood) |
| 21:51.59 | Depherios | AV started the last time I was dragging a Lost Barrens Kodo to OG XD |
| 21:52.15 | Neraph | Nive dep :) |
| 21:52.18 | Neraph | nice* |
| 21:52.22 | zespri | GetGuildRosterInfo() not returning group any more - anybody knows why is that and if there is a workaround? |
| 21:52.24 | Shouryuu | why do you drag kodos to org? |
| 21:52.31 | id` | she got trampled by a kodo, and ended up in this wheelchair... but her strong will made her survive |
| 21:52.36 | Depherios | because tehy make clompy noises |
| 21:52.37 | id` | she started walking... |
| 21:52.46 | id` | now, 10 years later |
| 21:52.52 | id` | you BETTER NOT cross her path |
| 21:52.56 | id` | :p |
| 21:53.02 | Shouryuu | that's what they all say.. |
| 21:53.04 | Neraph | hehe nice |
| 21:53.12 | id` | i just made it up |
| 21:53.13 | id` | *cough* |
| 21:53.16 | id` | back to work >_> |
| 21:54.03 | zespri | And is it possible to find out if a given person already in a group or not? (without trying to invite her) |
| 21:54.05 | Neraph | Industrial her name is yes? i'll look out for you... i have been grinding in badlands foreverrr |
| 21:54.19 | Neraph | *badlands stinks* |
| 21:54.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg (n=wguru@63.147.183.47) |
| 21:54.31 | Tem|WoW | zespri, no, it was removed in 1.9 |
| 21:54.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.4) |
| 21:54.47 | Tem|WoW | zespri, presumably to prepare for the new LFG interface they sort of promised |
| 21:55.13 | zespri | is there a post anywhere about it being removed? |
| 21:55.17 | zespri | thank you, Tem |
| 21:55.24 | Tem|WoW | probably not |
| 21:55.33 | Tem|WoW | oh maybe in the 1.9 changes thread |
| 21:56.06 | id` | Tem|WoW: centralized LFG ? |
| 21:56.20 | Shouryuu | yeah they're working on a new LFG system |
| 21:56.29 | Tem|WoW | id`, yeah they're working on one |
| 21:56.39 | id` | if the'yd only kill the chat channels and forbid any LFG or WTS chatter on the general channel... |
| 21:56.52 | Natasem | well it look slike FireFox 1.5 is still faster than IE 7 Beta Public Prieview 2 by about 5 seconds |
| 21:56.59 | id` | not |
| 21:57.00 | id` | :p |
| 21:57.06 | id` | IE7b2 is so much faster |
| 21:57.07 | id` | :> |
| 21:57.10 | Corrodias | hmmm |
| 21:57.14 | Tem|WoW | id`, I don't have high hopes, but I'm going to be optomistic |
| 21:57.18 | id` | but ok, i server my FF with lots of extensions |
| 21:57.21 | Depherios | it;s still IE though... isn't it?? |
| 21:57.32 | Tem|WoW | Depherios wins a prize |
| 21:57.42 | id` | i cant use FF without extensions, its just like IE to me then |
| 21:57.48 | id` | but then IE is faster |
| 21:57.57 | Corrodias | an LFG interface that lets you sign up for instances, quests, or "custom objectives" and see other available candidates... |
| 21:58.08 | id` | custom fails |
| 21:58.09 | Depherios | so... CTA XD |
| 21:58.10 | id` | :p[ |
| 21:58.12 | Corrodias | that would be most welcome. no more whining in cities |
| 21:58.24 | Natasem | http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/benchjs.html |
| 21:58.43 | Natasem | just did a bent test against FF 1.5 and IE7b2 |
| 21:58.45 | Corrodias | well, those "custom things" would most likely be best picked up in chat, still |
| 21:59.01 | Corrodias | like "looking for one or two rogues/druids to sneak with me into <somewhere> and <do one little thing>" |
| 21:59.15 | Depherios | if it works like CTA... you won't need to |
| 21:59.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 21:59.24 | Natasem | Corrodias you are describeing Call To Arms |
| 21:59.26 | Corrodias | what is CTA? |
| 21:59.52 | Tem|WoW | lol! |
| 21:59.53 | Tem|WoW | http://pi.ytmnd.com/ |
| 21:59.59 | Depherios | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4020 |
| 22:00.06 | Corrodias | call to arms? i've not heard of it. i will now read about it. |
| 22:00.18 | Natasem | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloa...nfo.php?id=4272 |
| 22:00.33 | Natasem | mine is the newest version |
| 22:00.36 | Natasem | =P |
| 22:00.46 | Depherios | yours is a broken link |
| 22:00.51 | Corrodias | it's a 404 because you truncated it |
| 22:00.52 | Neraph | So what combo of UI has everyone got then? |
| 22:00.56 | Depherios | yah |
| 22:01.00 | Natasem | bah wtf |
| 22:01.09 | Natasem | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4272 |
| 22:01.11 | Cairenn | rofl, funny channel to ask that in, Neraph |
| 22:01.13 | sarf|stuff | Sarf UI 2.328 |
| 22:01.15 | Shouryuu | tem - I actualy learned the 50 first decimals of Pi once... |
| 22:01.16 | Corrodias | i like the sound of CTA... but a lot of people would have to have it. :( |
| 22:01.22 | Cairenn | most of the folks in this channel are mod authors |
| 22:01.25 | Natasem | alot of people do have it |
| 22:01.36 | Neraph | cool :) |
| 22:01.37 | Depherios | Even if they don't |
| 22:01.47 | Neraph | i love Nurfed it rocks |
| 22:01.47 | Cairenn | this is primarily a dev channel |
| 22:01.49 | Shouryuu | nat - 2 people have it on my server. Me and someone else |
| 22:01.52 | id` | sarf ui? ewww i bet that's one of those icky compilation things |
| 22:01.55 | Depherios | it finds, and broadcasts LFG pessages |
| 22:01.56 | Tem|WoW | Shouryuu, be ashamed of yourself |
| 22:01.58 | id` | heh oh hey sarf|stuff ... |
| 22:02.02 | Natasem | about 100 people on my server have it |
| 22:02.10 | Natasem | and that is alliance alone lol |
| 22:02.17 | krka | i use krka UI 0.9 beta |
| 22:02.18 | Depherios | nobody ever makes a CTA party... but everybody broadcasts |
| 22:02.25 | Corrodias | then i'll try it |
| 22:02.27 | krka | very broken ui though, wouldn't recommend it |
| 22:02.34 | id` | lol krka |
| 22:02.37 | sarf|stuff | Too many slash commands .) |
| 22:02.44 | Tem|WoW | oh Maldivia, did you see my post? |
| 22:02.46 | Depherios | lol sounds like DephUI XD |
| 22:02.54 | id` | i have n ui |
| 22:03.04 | Depherios | i don't even have slash commands though ^_^ |
| 22:03.04 | id` | everything i make is independantly usable removable etc |
| 22:03.16 | id` | its just not alot |
| 22:03.22 | Maldivia | Tem, yes - and linked it from my post (end of 1.10 changes= |
| 22:03.24 | id` | (3 things that do really different things) |
| 22:03.25 | id` | lmao |
| 22:03.55 | Depherios | I realized today, that only one of my Titan Panel plugins isn't modified (not counting the built ins) |
| 22:04.17 | Tain | Built-ins are the devil! |
| 22:04.34 | Depherios | lol, I removed most of them... most especially Rider *shudders* |
| 22:04.51 | Tain | I made them all plugins. |
| 22:04.53 | id` | Tain: did you redo titan or was it tem |
| 22:04.58 | id` | good |
| 22:05.01 | Maldivia | Tem: hmm, knowing a bit about how printf works, should actually make you able to scan the stack with tooltips... |
| 22:05.04 | id` | was gunna pm to ask you |
| 22:05.19 | Tain | Yeah, I just haven't gone back to clean it up more. |
| 22:05.23 | Depherios | lol |
| 22:05.24 | id` | sometimes i switch Tem and Tain :< |
| 22:05.31 | Depherios | ditto :P |
| 22:05.39 | Shouryuu | man I really need to clean up my add-on |
| 22:05.42 | Natasem | there are so many different version of Titan, it's hard to tell what one is the best |
| 22:05.49 | id` | Tain's |
| 22:05.49 | Shouryuu | the code is just... sad |
| 22:05.50 | id` | the end |
| 22:05.51 | id` | :p |
| 22:05.51 | Natasem | or what wone works the best |
| 22:06.02 | id` | mine works the best |
| 22:06.04 | id` | none |
| 22:06.10 | zespri | krka, you don't play =) |
| 22:06.14 | id` | </lame mood> |
| 22:06.15 | Depherios | I don't even remember what one I have, but it's modified, a ton XD |
| 22:06.24 | Neraph | ive got nurfed, titanbar and flexbar at the mo |
| 22:06.50 | krka | yeah, i play a bit |
| 22:06.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@75.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:06.59 | Shouryuu | damm internet |
| 22:07.01 | Neraph | wb sho |
| 22:07.28 | Depherios | it's taken me like... 32 days so far to level my Priest to 51... I spend all my time coding, fixing, modifying XD |
| 22:07.33 | Shouryuu | lol thanks |
| 22:07.53 | Depherios | oop 33 days actually |
| 22:08.11 | Maldivia | Tem: hehe... <quote>Don't do that</quote> |
| 22:08.45 | Tem|WoW | yeah I just saw it |
| 22:09.15 | Tem|WoW | so I wonder if that means he's not going to fix it |
| 22:09.24 | Shouryuu | damn where I can find that macromedia plugin for WoW... I think bela uploaded one on WoWI but I can't remember... |
| 22:09.42 | Tem|WoW | Shouryuu, what are you talking about? |
| 22:09.49 | Cairenn | macromedia? |
| 22:10.03 | Shouryuu | dreamweaver? |
| 22:10.09 | id` | *twitch* |
| 22:10.12 | Cairenn | do you mean dreamweaver? it's in dev tools, duh :p |
| 22:10.13 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=3971 |
| 22:10.21 | Shouryuu | danke |
| 22:10.23 | Tem|WoW | lol! |
| 22:10.27 | id` | *die* |
| 22:10.29 | Maldivia | hmm, Iriel do you know how much an overhead there is, looking up (from C++)a global var in the lua enviroment ? |
| 22:10.34 | Tem|WoW | "Or possibly +X Ninja for agi, and +X Pirates for Str." |
| 22:10.48 | Cairenn | lol, slouken ... "don't do that" |
| 22:10.53 | Tem|WoW | Maldivia, there are people in #lua that could tell you that |
| 22:11.18 | Neraph | bye bye peeps maybe back in a minnutey thing |
| 22:11.29 | Maldivia | well, Iriel is a lua-guru, and usually knows such stuff :) |
| 22:11.43 | Maldivia | but yeah - #lua might be a good place for such questions |
| 22:11.53 | Tem|WoW | Maldivia, the lua devs frequent #lua |
| 22:12.30 | Tem|WoW | and there is one guy rici... he seems to know the innards of lua like the back of his hand. It's kind of scary |
| 22:12.33 | Maldivia | Was just thinking, that it can't be that effecient to lookup a format-string in lua, for each line in a item-tooltip |
| 22:13.14 | Natasem | gawd darn IE stole all the idea's from FF, i was treating IE7 the same way i treat FF and every command is the same |
| 22:13.36 | Tem|WoW | heyas cladhaire |
| 22:13.47 | Cairenn | hey cladhaire :) |
| 22:13.54 | Maldivia | Natasem: including the RSS icon |
| 22:14.03 | Natasem | yep |
| 22:14.25 | Tem | Cairenn, did Dolby break WoWI's favicon? |
| 22:14.37 | Cairenn | shouldn't have ... |
| 22:14.41 | Tem | It doesn't appear for me anymore |
| 22:14.45 | cladhaire | Maldivia: You assume that the tooltip handling isn't coded in pure lua =) |
| 22:14.56 | Cairenn | weird |
| 22:14.59 | Maldivia | cladhaire: it isn't |
| 22:15.04 | Cairenn | post it in the bugs forum |
| 22:15.08 | cladhaire | How can you be sure? |
| 22:15.11 | Cairenn | please :) |
| 22:15.18 | Tem | cladhaire, trust me |
| 22:15.21 | Tem | cladhaire, we know |
| 22:15.21 | cladhaire | lol |
| 22:15.22 | Maldivia | cladhaire: because the format strings are printf-format, not string.format |
| 22:15.28 | cladhaire | that's all i was asking =) |
| 22:15.40 | Tem | cladhaire, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=312708&s=new&tmp=1#new |
| 22:15.45 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 22:15.59 | Kirkburn | Natasem, everyone 'steals' from everyone, it's progress. FF is open source, too |
| 22:16.42 | id` | all i have made is stolen |
| 22:16.44 | id` | and improved |
| 22:16.45 | Natasem | ya i know |
| 22:16.53 | id` | to my opinion ofcource |
| 22:16.56 | Kirkburn | I must comment that the IE7 beta does have bugs, noticeable ones, so only install if you have a backup, like FF, installed |
| 22:17.14 | id` | notice the 'Beta' in 'Beta; |
| 22:17.17 | Kirkburn | I just had to put FF on myself |
| 22:17.20 | Natasem | i just love my FF and hate IE |
| 22:17.21 | id` | xD |
| 22:17.58 | Kirkburn | id, well yes. But the bugs do render a very few pages weirdly. |
| 22:18.05 | Beladona | time to go home and play =D |
| 22:18.15 | Kirkburn | Natasem, I have to say when IE7 somes out they'll be on a par for a while |
| 22:18.40 | Natasem | i know |
| 22:19.08 | Kirkburn | I don't think u have to be that upset, most web devs will be cheering when it goes public |
| 22:19.11 | Beladona | yeah, finally transparent gifs will work |
| 22:19.19 | Kirkburn | And FF will have to get even better |
| 22:19.20 | Beladona | and I will feel better about using hackless png |
| 22:19.32 | Kirkburn | Transparent gifs? |
| 22:19.40 | Kirkburn | You meant png? |
| 22:19.41 | Beladona | I meant transparent pngs |
| 22:19.44 | Beladona | sorry |
| 22:19.47 | Beladona | alpha channels |
| 22:19.48 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 22:20.06 | Beladona | supposedly beta2 has it now |
| 22:20.10 | Kirkburn | I does |
| 22:20.10 | id` | Kirkburn: or the pages were made with IE6 css hacks and IE7 fixes itself and the hacks fuck up IE7 |
| 22:20.11 | Beladona | haven't checked |
| 22:20.17 | Kirkburn | It does, even |
| 22:20.35 | Kirkburn | id, the hacks have been removed |
| 22:20.41 | id` | *shrug* |
| 22:21.08 | Kirkburn | I'm pretty certain they shouldn't break the sites using them currently though |
| 22:21.36 | Kirkburn | it's nice to finally be able to subscribe to rss feeds |
| 22:21.48 | Beladona | no the hacks will still work |
| 22:21.55 | Beladona | they just won't be necessary |
| 22:23.00 | Natasem | eh i always root for the under dog |
| 22:23.17 | Natasem | and FF was / is the underdoog |
| 22:23.43 | Kirkburn | So's netscape |
| 22:23.46 | Kirkburn | And safari |
| 22:23.49 | Tem | my biggest issue with IE is that it takes them too long to fix security holes |
| 22:23.53 | Kirkburn | etc, etc |
| 22:24.02 | Beladona | I doubt IE7 will bring the masses back that much |
| 22:24.21 | Beladona | IE7 would need to provide something FF doesn't have |
| 22:24.21 | Kirkburn | 'the masses' by which you mean the 10% that changed? |
| 22:24.30 | Tem | and IMO something that is built into the OS, should be so secure it's retarded |
| 22:24.31 | Kirkburn | Well the tabs are better implemented |
| 22:24.44 | Beladona | 10%? I doubt that is accurate |
| 22:24.51 | Tem | better implemented than what? |
| 22:25.01 | Kirkburn | Tem, the vista version of IE will be very well integrated, specifically into the security section of windows |
| 22:25.12 | ForgottenLords | Is there any way to hook <OnClick> code in the XML files? |
| 22:25.17 | Beladona | how are the tabs better implemented |
| 22:25.29 | Kirkburn | Oh and it'll be incredibly 'restrictive' for anything wanting to affect your system |
| 22:25.42 | Kirkburn | 10% is pretty accurate. It's the current FF market share |
| 22:25.53 | Corrodias | overall, 10% is probably right |
| 22:26.01 | Corrodias | as for specific domains, it depends on what sort of place it is |
| 22:26.03 | Beladona | that doesn't count the people who switched away from IE to OTHER browsers |
| 22:26.16 | Kirkburn | Ie market share is currently about 85% |
| 22:26.45 | Beladona | only because people are still ignorant about their options |
| 22:26.51 | Kirkburn | Tabs have a close button on the tab, you click next to the last one to open a new tab |
| 22:27.02 | Kirkburn | Beladona, that was totally irrelevant :p |
| 22:27.06 | Beladona | I don't like that feature |
| 22:27.18 | Beladona | I thought it was pretty crappy |
| 22:27.19 | Kirkburn | What feature? |
| 22:27.21 | Tem | neither do I |
| 22:27.30 | Beladona | the x per tab, and the new tab button |
| 22:27.39 | Kirkburn | How is that crappy? |
| 22:27.46 | Tem | crouds the tab |
| 22:27.59 | Beladona | not to mention the tabs being over the menu bar, although that is supposedly changing |
| 22:28.02 | Corrodias | in my firefox, i use the middle mouse button or mouse gestures to close tabs |
| 22:28.05 | Kirkburn | Oh and the tab preview page, click the button to see a tiles view of all your open tabs with images of the open pages |
| 22:28.22 | Beladona | those are little things that I really don't care about |
| 22:28.29 | Corrodias | 4chan appears to be accessed 60% by firefox and 30% by IE |
| 22:28.33 | Kirkburn | You asked me how tabs were better implemented ... |
| 22:28.41 | Beladona | would rather my browser be lightweight and fast than have hover previews and smell like cheese |
| 22:28.47 | Corrodias | of course, that's a very particular subset of internet-enabled people |
| 22:28.57 | Beladona | those are really just "fluff" features |
| 22:28.59 | Kirkburn | IE7 is very fast in my current experience |
| 22:29.03 | Tem | turan posted that wowace had 60% FF visitors as well |
| 22:29.07 | Kirkburn | oh, right ... fluff. |
| 22:29.21 | Beladona | better implementation is purely opinion on that part |
| 22:29.25 | cladhaire | Kirk: Does it still not implement the http standard correctly, by half-closing sockets? |
| 22:29.28 | Kirkburn | I think better measures would be news sites |
| 22:29.46 | Kirkburn | cladhaire, not sure what you mean |
| 22:29.48 | Tem | I disagree |
| 22:29.57 | Tem | I think something like google would be a better measure |
| 22:29.58 | Corrodias | http://www.4chan.org/blog/2005/12/02/some-stats/ |
| 22:30.05 | Beladona | when I heard better implmeneted, I was thinking the backend implementation such as memory utilization and rendering |
| 22:30.06 | cladhaire | the reason IE is quick.. is because it takes short-cuts that are against the Http standard |
| 22:30.12 | Kirkburn | Ok, news and search sites |
| 22:30.25 | Tem | not news sites |
| 22:30.28 | Kirkburn | I can't say how much better IE7 works |
| 22:30.32 | Kirkburn | In fact I have an idea |
| 22:30.37 | Kirkburn | I'm gonna try the acid test |
| 22:30.46 | Beladona | there are sites with thorough checks |
| 22:30.49 | Beladona | that you can run |
| 22:30.55 | Kirkburn | Give me one |
| 22:31.00 | Beladona | based on http standards |
| 22:31.24 | Kirkburn | ya |
| 22:31.48 | Beladona | here is a simple one for the png bug |
| 22:31.50 | Beladona | http://www.w3.org/Graphics/PNG/ |
| 22:31.56 | Beladona | I have more just gotta find em |
| 22:32.50 | Kirkburn | Acid test is better than IE6, still not as good as FF yet |
| 22:33.09 | Kirkburn | When I say better then IE6 I mean WAY better. And actual recognisable circle |
| 22:33.13 | Kirkburn | The png test is fine |
| 22:33.27 | Natasem | Blizzard To Run New Servers on Opterons http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=576 |
| 22:33.29 | Beladona | you went through alpha and gamma too? |
| 22:33.54 | Kirkburn | Yup |
| 22:33.56 | Kirkburn | Perfect |
| 22:34.15 | cladhaire | interesting |
| 22:34.35 | Kirkburn | and good :) |
| 22:35.07 | Kirkburn | What were they running on before? |
| 22:35.52 | Kirkburn | 1,500 servers, probably also for EU |
| 22:35.58 | Beladona | oh and on a side note |
| 22:36.10 | Kirkburn | I'm right in thinking 2 servers for each realm? |
| 22:36.29 | Beladona | the IE7 lead developer said himself that IE7 will not fully support the latest CSS standard |
| 22:36.37 | Depherios | oi |
| 22:36.50 | Beladona | it will fix the major bugs |
| 22:36.55 | Kirkburn | CSS 3.0? Pretty much no-one does yet |
| 22:37.04 | cladhaire | quirks mode is ridiculous |
| 22:37.04 | Beladona | not talking about that |
| 22:37.13 | cladhaire | Kirk: no IE has every supported ANY versino of css correctly |
| 22:37.20 | Beladona | I am talking about full CSS2 standards compliance |
| 22:37.47 | Kirkburn | Where's the page with the standards compliance of each browser? I forget how FF fares |
| 22:37.58 | Beladona | oh and get this |
| 22:38.12 | Beladona | I’ve seen a lot of comments asking if we will pass the Acid2 browser test published by the Web Standards Project when IE7 ships. I’ll go ahead and relieve the suspense by saying we will not pass this test when IE7 ships |
| 22:38.15 | Kirkburn | cladhaire, 'quirks' mode? |
| 22:38.25 | Beladona | ..... |
| 22:38.25 | Kirkburn | FF doesn't pass the test either |
| 22:38.35 | Beladona | right |
| 22:38.43 | Beladona | but it comes a hell of a lot closer |
| 22:38.48 | Kirkburn | But it is better then IE7 |
| 22:39.03 | Kirkburn | I'm testing on the beta two preview, remember |
| 22:39.08 | Beladona | what makes me laugh |
| 22:39.11 | cladhaire | Kirkburn Yes.. CSS issues on ie |
| 22:39.14 | Beladona | they list what they are fixing |
| 22:39.21 | Beladona | but not what they are NOT going to support |
| 22:39.29 | Beladona | developers get to find that out on their own |
| 22:39.32 | Beladona | =D |
| 22:40.06 | Kirkburn | Er ... surely that would be assumed by knowing what's there now, and what's listed as fixed? |
| 22:40.19 | cladhaire | You'd think |
| 22:40.28 | cladhaire | if you had any idea the hoops web developers have to jump through |
| 22:40.36 | Iriel | I see slouken's response to Tem/Maldivia was the expected one 8-) |
| 22:40.43 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 22:41.05 | Kirkburn | Dev don't publish lists of what they're not gonna do, cos that kind of stuff changes |
| 22:41.30 | Kirkburn | Much easier to publish lists of what they've done already |
| 22:41.32 | Maldivia | Iriel: yeah... I just think it's risky having access to the printf format string in lua |
| 22:41.56 | Iriel | If you can feed it arbitrary values, it will be |
| 22:42.07 | Iriel | on the other hand, it's handy for us |
| 22:42.08 | Kirkburn | But anyway I think we can all agree that IE7 is a big leap for IE, but FF still outperforms it in certain areas |
| 22:42.49 | Beladona | I coulda waited on the IE tabs, if they would just meet or beat other browsers in compliance |
| 22:42.55 | Kirkburn | Is there a mod for the +Ninja thing yet? |
| 22:43.40 | Depherios | I admit, I like I.E's filter effects...as in ALPHA |
| 22:44.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 22:44.16 | Shouryuu | should this be a proper scrolling function?http://pastebin.com/534567 I've been having a few poeple saying that they couldn't scroll through my add-on frame... |
| 22:44.20 | Shouryuu | *would |
| 22:44.41 | Kirkburn | Depherious, was that sarcasm? |
| 22:46.13 | Beladona | IE's filter affects are one of the major issues web developers have |
| 22:46.28 | Beladona | due to the fact they are IE only, and are not part of the web standard |
| 22:47.24 | Kirkburn | What do they do/not do? |
| 22:47.55 | Gryphen | iframes werent standard either.. |
| 22:48.21 | Beladona | the filter effects are also an attempt to extend scripting into CSS, which is insecure. |
| 22:49.02 | Kirkburn | A good impartial view on IE7: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/ie7_beta2.asp |
| 22:49.07 | Depherios | I said I liked them, I didn't say I like how they did 'em XD -- they're fun to play with |
| 22:49.08 | Beladona | yeah I read that |
| 22:49.12 | Beladona | and I agree with him |
| 22:49.15 | Depherios | but I don't use IE |
| 22:49.26 | Beladona | it is a huge leap forward, but as he states, he won't be making the switch yet either |
| 22:49.51 | Kirkburn | Wonder if they'll add in the inline search by release |
| 22:49.55 | Beladona | I will test it though |
| 22:50.17 | Beladona | especially since I do a lot of web development, so I gotta know what IE supports and doesn't |
| 22:50.51 | Kirkburn | Good idea. My sites are too crappy to be affected (just look at the one that comes with my addon ...) |
| 22:51.41 | Kirkburn | No one answered about the current situation on a +Ninja addon? |
| 22:52.01 | Shouryuu | I doubt it |
| 22:52.14 | Shouryuu | the ninja add on that is |
| 22:52.27 | Shouryuu | not the fact that someone has answered your question |
| 22:53.13 | Iriel | Shouryuu : I can't follow your code well enough to figureo ut what it's trying to do |
| 22:53.21 | Shouryuu | lol sorry |
| 22:53.38 | Shouryuu | I'm going to rework it durring the holidays |
| 22:53.56 | Shouryuu | I;m just trying to keep track of the number of time someone presses scroll up or scroll down |
| 22:54.19 | krka | haha, great response from slouken |
| 22:54.23 | Shouryuu | so I know which names to show |
| 22:54.24 | Iriel | Shouryuu : I'm concerned that those two functions look VERY different in terms of what they do at the top |
| 22:54.51 | Shouryuu | at the top as in? The first if? |
| 22:56.05 | Iriel | Shouryuu one calls GetLeviLoto_EditBox_Values(), one doesn't |
| 22:56.28 | Iriel | And why you're tracking number of scrolls in each direction, rather than just where in the list you're at is odd. |
| 22:56.35 | Kirkburn | Can I just say thanks for a constructive conversation about IE7, it's nice to be away from flame wars :) |
| 22:56.36 | Iriel | And likely the source of your problems |
| 22:57.09 | Shouryuu | actualy they both do |
| 22:59.02 | krka | good thing I wasn't active here when you talked about IE7 then! |
| 22:59.02 | Shouryuu | man I need to rework my code |
| 22:59.10 | Shouryuu | I don't understand half of what I'm doing... |
| 22:59.13 | Iriel | Maldivia : Heh, I win with "performance" |
| 22:59.57 | krka | i only understand my code up to 2 hours after I write it |
| 23:00.01 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:00.12 | cladhaire | I understand mine until I'm sober |
| 23:00.17 | krka | it ends up so obfuscated and efficient it's unreadable |
| 23:00.25 | Tem | lol! |
| 23:00.35 | Tem | /this is probably not needed but what the hell |
| 23:00.58 | Tem | s/\//\/\// |
| 23:00.58 | id` | haha neat the bells of the church... 00:00 |
| 23:01.02 | Maldivia | Iriel: well, I did get two new nice API functions out of it :) |
| 23:01.14 | id` | s/^\/// |
| 23:01.16 | id` | :p |
| 23:01.23 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:01.33 | id` | purl needs it |
| 23:01.34 | Tem | if(!this) return; |
| 23:01.40 | id` | ~lart kergoth |
| 23:01.54 | krka | dailywtf? |
| 23:01.54 | id` | he needs to make it run through vim with a shell command |
| 23:02.07 | id` | that'd be ownage |
| 23:02.08 | id` | :p |
| 23:02.36 | krka | if (!this) { } // this is very bad |
| 23:02.47 | Tem | dailywtf indeed |
| 23:04.44 | Shouryuu | well rawr out |
| 23:06.41 | Tem | rofl |
| 23:06.53 | Tem | it's been too long since I visited this site |
| 23:07.04 | cladhaire | Does it kill anyone else when people spell their subject in the forums wrong? |
| 23:07.16 | cladhaire | and it sits there all day long, and gets bumped.. til its 19 pages |
| 23:07.34 | Kirkburn | Well, does the subject include a gun which shoots you in the head? |
| 23:07.46 | Kirkburn | Cos then in might kill me |
| 23:07.48 | cladhaire | .. hrm.. sometimes! |
| 23:08.20 | Kirkburn | I want to use purl ... for a correction it'd be s/in/it ? |
| 23:09.05 | cladhaire | s/times/toons/ |
| 23:09.52 | Kirkburn | purrfect |
| 23:10.05 | Kirkburn | s/purr/per |
| 23:10.46 | Kirkburn | If there's one thing that annoys me, it's that the ui.worldofwar feed doesn't work in IE7 |
| 23:11.02 | cladhaire | closing / |
| 23:11.05 | Kirkburn | I'm guessing I forgot the final / then |
| 23:11.09 | Kirkburn | :D |
| 23:11.40 | Kirkburn | s/:D/:(/ |
| 23:11.40 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:11.41 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:11.48 | Tem | >< lol! |
| 23:11.54 | Tem | FIVE = 4 |
| 23:12.23 | Kirkburn | Is this some obscure monty python joke? |
| 23:12.42 | Tem | no it's a dailywtf |
| 23:12.57 | Kirkburn | Ah so some obscure nerd joke |
| 23:13.06 | Tem | well look at it |
| 23:13.22 | Tem | someone set a variable named "FIVE" to be equal to 4 |
| 23:13.56 | Kirkburn | Oh, er, I knew that! I was just ... testing |
| 23:15.40 | Codayus | Hmmm. |
| 23:15.41 | Iriel | Someone needs to go beat Fortessian into being (a) polite and (b) less frickin' lazy |
| 23:15.57 | Codayus | What language is that? |
| 23:16.10 | Iriel | looked like lua bytecode |
| 23:16.16 | krka | reference Iriel? |
| 23:16.17 | Tem | not sure Codayus |
| 23:16.27 | Codayus | I don'tunderstandit. |
| 23:16.57 | Tem | I got it in an IM |
| 23:17.02 | Tem | I shall ask him |
| 23:17.32 | Tem | lol it is Lua bytecode |
| 23:17.46 | Tem | Oh I see. The original was in cobol |
| 23:17.59 | Tem | but he couldn't find it |
| 23:18.45 | Iriel | luac -l SecretSauce.lua is fun to read |
| 23:18.49 | Codayus | Hmmm, lua bytecode is confusing if you don't know it. :-) |
| 23:19.33 | Tem | Iriel, that seems like a terrible idea |
| 23:20.24 | krka | lua bytecode is quite similar to java bytecode, so i find it easy to read |
| 23:20.50 | Iriel | It can be interesting to see how much work you're actually doing |
| 23:21.23 | Tem | haha check this one out |
| 23:21.26 | Tem | if (totalGlue > EIGHT) totalGlue = EIGHT; |
| 23:21.26 | Tem | / burried in a header file ... |
| 23:21.26 | Tem | #define EIGHT 16 |
| 23:22.26 | krka | yeah... people who use "and" and "or" in lua to do weird things instead of using if-statements for instance |
| 23:22.35 | krka | it translates to the same bytecode in the end |
| 23:22.46 | krka | but if-statements are probably almost always more readable |
| 23:29.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire_ (n=cladhair@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 23:29.44 | Iriel | I dont agree with that statement |
| 23:30.09 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/534629 |
| 23:31.31 | Iriel | And http://wow.pastebin.com/534632 |
| 23:33.22 | Maldivia | size isn't everything... *hides* |
| 23:34.26 | krka | well... didn't mean that that's unreadable |
| 23:34.32 | krka | though the bytecode seems pretty much equal |
| 23:35.00 | krka | i meant stuff like x = (y or 0) and (q or (5 and z)) |
| 23:35.17 | krka | where it's not just booleans |
| 23:38.55 | Iriel | well, that one would be silly |
| 23:39.08 | Iriel | (y or 0) is always true |
| 23:39.18 | Iriel | so it's just x = q or (5 and z) |
| 23:39.21 | Iriel | and since 5 is also tru |
| 23:39.22 | Iriel | x = q or z |
| 23:39.42 | krka | no |
| 23:39.49 | krka | (y or 0) either returns y or 0 |
| 23:39.59 | krka | if y is false or nil, it returns 0 |
| 23:40.01 | krka | otherwise y |
| 23:40.09 | Iriel | Yes, but you're passing it into 'and' |
| 23:40.12 | Iriel | so that's irrelevant |
| 23:40.25 | krka | maybe it was a bad example |
| 23:40.34 | Iriel | it was, and i'm just picking on you |
| 23:40.38 | krka | a real example would be x = (x or 0) + 1 |
| 23:41.37 | krka | hmm... or: x = (((type(x) == "number) and x) or 0) + 1 |
| 23:41.57 | krka | that good enough for you? :) |
| 23:42.18 | krka | i'd prefer to see: if type(x) == "number" then x = x + 1 else x = 1 end |
| 23:42.51 | Tain | Thankfully everyone gets to do it the way they like. :) |
| 23:43.39 | AnduinLothar | ah, but it looks like you're a leet coder to use inline uberness |
| 23:44.05 | krka | my original point was that I suspect that some people use that kind of obfuscated lines thinking they're making it more efficient |
| 23:44.26 | krka | looking at the lua bytecode would be a better estimate |
| 23:44.46 | Tain | I don't assume that though. There are simply different ways different people code. |
| 23:45.02 | Tain | You'd really have to ask someone why they do it that way. |
| 23:45.47 | Iriel | I usually go for single lines when I want to keep the code size down |
| 23:45.56 | Iriel | In .lua, that is |
| 23:46.08 | krka | why do you want to keep the source size down? |
| 23:46.14 | krka | less typing or less reading? |
| 23:46.23 | krka | or smaller zips to distribute :) |
| 23:47.08 | Iriel | Clearer reading |
| 23:47.12 | Iriel | I find something like... |
| 23:47.25 | Iriel | y = someStructure(x or "default"); |
| 23:47.27 | Iriel | is easier than |
| 23:47.34 | Iriel | local nx = x; |
| 23:47.48 | Iriel | if (not x) then nx = "default"; end |
| 23:47.54 | Iriel | y = someStructure(nx) |
| 23:48.06 | krka | for that example i agree |
| 23:48.12 | Iriel | Your 2nd example was much better by the way |
| 23:48.16 | Tain | Besides, if someone uses a 30 condition if statement on a single line for no other reason than they think it looks cool, then that's really all the reason they need. |
| 23:48.21 | krka | i know |
| 23:48.27 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/534652 |
| 23:48.29 | krka | that was actually thought out |
| 23:51.14 | krka | hmm |
| 23:51.17 | krka | that looks wrong |
| 23:51.23 | krka | let me edit |
| 23:51.59 | krka | hmm, no wait, have to recompile then |
| 23:52.05 | krka | you mixed up x and o anyway |
| 23:52.09 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:52.11 | krka | should be |
| 23:52.19 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:52.28 | Iriel | Ah, I wasn't sure what you were going for is all |
| 23:52.51 | krka | something that made sense ;) |
| 23:53.20 | Iriel | Well, mine made sense also, just different meaning |
| 23:53.47 | krka | not sure how you would interpret it |
| 23:53.52 | Kirkburn | Can I just mention that I've just found this wonderful program: http://tixu.scribe.free.fr/ |
| 23:54.12 | krka | we are all happy for you! |
| 23:54.34 | Kirkburn | Am I to assume you've had a look and thus realised why I posted it? |
| 23:54.50 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/534667 |
| 23:54.52 | krka | no |
| 23:54.59 | krka | but i looked now :P |
| 23:55.06 | Iriel | That's been around for ages |
| 23:55.08 | Tain | I usually don't look at links unless someone gives me an idea of what it is. |
| 23:55.29 | Kirkburn | Iriel, I know, but I only just found it :) |
| 23:55.33 | Tain | All that extra clicking is bound to give me wrist issues. |
| 23:55.35 | Iriel | It's the wow cartography program |
| 23:55.37 | Kirkburn | Tain, good point |
| 23:56.55 | krka | i just focus really hard with my eyes on the link |
| 23:57.36 | Tain | I am however currently extremely annoyed at how messed up the Windows registry gets when different programs register things in different ways. |
| 23:58.18 | Kirkburn | Does your registry need some conforting? |
| 23:58.49 | Tain | And more than extremely annoyed that Adobe Acrobat installed and then specifically removed write access to the file association keys. |
| 23:59.46 | Tain | For the stuff it associated itself with. Which took me quite a while to figure out since the last thing I was expecting was an installer to change permissions on my home PC. |
| 23:59.49 | Tain | Very annoyed. |