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| 12:21.13 | herlo | morning |
| 12:49.46 | herlo | wow, GNOME3 is fast! |
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| 14:15.28 | fugue88 | herlo: Really? I read somewhere in the tubes that just moving your mouse cursor consumers 25% CPU. Maybe he didn't have an accelerating graphics driver. |
| 14:16.26 | fozzmoo | The KDE4 vs Gnome3 review sided with KDE4. |
| 14:17.02 | fugue88 | Case closed. |
| 14:17.03 | fugue88 | :) |
| 14:20.33 | herlo | fugue88: it's probably due to the graphics, but it isn't consuming my cpu :) |
| 14:20.40 | herlo | fozzmoo: how old is the review? |
| 14:20.47 | fozzmoo | Last week. |
| 14:20.52 | fozzmoo | Linux Mag. |
| 14:21.25 | herlo | huh, well, GNOME3 is still new and will definitely need time, but I'm using it now and it's definitely fast on my x201 |
| 14:22.58 | fozzmoo | I think it's probably suffering from some of the same problems KDE4 did when it was first released. |
| 14:23.16 | fozzmoo | Incomplete admin utilities, unoptimized components, etc. |
| 14:24.11 | fozzmoo | No, it wasn't Linux Mag... |
| 14:24.22 | fozzmoo | It was Datamation. |
| 14:24.24 | fozzmoo | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3930006/GNOME-vs-KDE-The-Latest-Round.htm |
| 14:25.16 | fozzmoo | This paragraph was most interesting to me: Running nothing except a virtual terminal, GNOME 3 consumes 883 megabytes of RAM on a one gigabyte notebook. Not only is this requirement more than twice that of GNOME 2.32, but it compares unfavorably with the 615 megabytes needed by KDE 4.6. Realistically, it means that two gigabytes of RAM would be a realistic requirement for GNOME 3 unless you have the patience to continually use the swap partition. That probabl |
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| 14:27.04 | herlo | will read that... |
| 14:27.32 | herlo | runs htop now to discover his ram/cpu useage |
| 14:30.29 | herlo | fozzmoo: fugue88: http://herlo.org/misc/my-gnome3.png |
| 14:30.55 | herlo | also notes this is running a Fedora 15 Beta live image |
| 14:31.12 | fugue88 | herlo: GNOME 3 is all text! |
| 14:31.14 | fugue88 | :P |
| 14:31.23 | herlo | fugue88: haha, hang on |
| 14:33.04 | herlo | fugue88: here you go: http://herlo.org/misc/my-gnome3-desktop.png |
| 14:33.04 | fozzmoo | fugue88: :) |
| 14:33.22 | fozzmoo | Looks like a kiosk. |
| 14:34.23 | herlo | yeah, like KDE4.0 was any better |
| 14:35.12 | fugue88 | herlo: Can you disable all those icons in the "previously-known-as-the-desktop" space? |
| 14:35.33 | fugue88 | Or are those there just because you're typing in the search box? |
| 14:35.44 | herlo | fugue88: the default screen is blank |
| 14:36.03 | herlo | you can choose Activities and it pulls that up (or Alt+F1) |
| 14:36.27 | fugue88 | I like how "t" matches "Movie Player" I wonder if any normal user knows it's called Totem. |
| 14:36.34 | fugue88 | is assuming that's Totem |
| 14:37.02 | fugue88 | Well, it's pretty, at least. |
| 14:39.33 | nibb13 | i miss my gnome-panel in gnome-shell and unity |
| 14:40.53 | herlo | nibb13: do you use unity? |
| 14:41.06 | herlo | I'm interested in trying it out, but not so interested in Ubuntu |
| 14:41.36 | nibb13 | running unity on ubuntu 11.4 right now |
| 14:41.48 | nibb13 | it is very similar to gnome-shell |
| 14:42.25 | nibb13 | so much so i think they will merge in the future |
| 14:43.29 | nibb13 | i have been using shell off and on for the last few months, then when ubuntu 11.4 went beta i jumped on that to try unity |
| 14:43.47 | nibb13 | then i went back to shell for a week |
| 14:44.19 | nibb13 | the main difference unity uses menu intigration on the top bar ala mac os |
| 14:45.19 | fugue88 | Seems like a very old GNOME had that menu-bar integration. I actually mostly liked it. |
| 14:45.35 | fugue88 | Well, similar menu-bar integration, at least. |
| 14:46.06 | nibb13 | it gives you a little more room on the screen which is nice |
| 14:46.27 | nibb13 | but easy customization has been tossed out |
| 14:46.43 | nibb13 | which is a huge bummer |
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| 14:51.18 | nibb13 | anyone have a sec to help me with a basic apache mod_rewrite .htaccess question? |
| 14:51.39 | fugue88 | nibb13: Just ask it. :) |
| 14:52.30 | nibb13 | my company's webmistress wants to have website visitors auto redirected |
| 14:52.55 | nibb13 | example: vistor type www.url.com/foo and they go to www.url.com/foo.html |
| 14:53.14 | fozzmoo | You can probably do that with a Redirect. |
| 14:53.20 | fozzmoo | Don't need to use mod_rewrite. |
| 14:53.38 | fozzmoo | Redirect /foo http://www.foo.com/foo.html |
| 14:53.59 | fozzmoo | Or do you mean 'foo' as a generic pattern? |
| 14:54.07 | nibb13 | generic pattern |
| 14:55.04 | nibb13 | same for www.url.com/wakawaka to www.url.com/wakawaka.html |
| 14:55.04 | nibb13 | etc |
| 14:55.11 | fozzmoo | RedirectMatch (^/[a-z]+$) http://www.url.com$1.html |
| 14:55.50 | nibb13 | sweet |
| 14:55.56 | nibb13 | thanks |
| 14:56.09 | fozzmoo | http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_alias.html#redirectmatch |
| 14:57.04 | nibb13 | cool, i was barking up the wrong tree going after clean urls |
| 14:57.16 | nibb13 | explains why it wasnt making any sense |
| 15:12.39 | nibb13 | does xmission hosting have mod_alias enabled? |
| 15:14.45 | fozzmoo | I can't imagine why they wouldn't. |
| 15:19.00 | nibb13 | they do, sorry |
| 15:19.33 | nibb13 | how would i include numbers in the pattern? |
| 15:19.41 | nibb13 | that appears to be the issue |
| 15:20.11 | fugue88 | [a-z] becomes [a-z0-9] perhaps? |
| 15:20.31 | fugue88 | (And that won't match uppercase, or symbols) |
| 15:26.25 | nibb13 | that worked, thanks |
| 15:27.23 | fugue88 | Cool. |
| 15:28.08 | fugue88 | nibb13: Learn you some regex for great good. `man pcre` is a good starting point. :) |
| 15:28.46 | fugue88 | Regular expressions are such a handy tool, and have a fairly wide-spread use. |
| 15:29.00 | smcquay | i used them to make breakfast |
| 15:29.14 | fugue88 | smcquay: You're awesome! |
| 15:29.20 | smcquay | no, pcre are awesome |
| 15:29.50 | fugue88 | I'm using them in my plan for world domination (in baby steps). |
| 15:30.13 | fugue88 | Baby steps with minimal backtracking. ;) |
| 15:33.04 | shalkie | regex is just generally awesome. $(man regex). |
| 15:43.16 | nibb13 | looks like i have some reading to do |
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| 15:55.29 | nibb13 | what about this statement in the .htaccess file |
| 15:55.49 | nibb13 | <If "$reg{Host} = 'foo.com'"> |
| 15:56.15 | nibb13 | RedirectMatch (.*) http://www.foo.com$1 </If> |
| 15:57.07 | nibb13 | everytime she uploads the .htaccess with it, the rediredct works but we get 500 internal server errors |
| 15:57.20 | nibb13 | for every page |
| 15:59.14 | herlo | fugue88: yeah, the names sometimes get me too |
| 15:59.31 | herlo | why it can't be 'Totem Movie Player' or something is beyond me |
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| 17:00.21 | tristanbob_ | where are sudo commands logged (by default in ubuntu) |
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| 17:33.05 | harleypig | anyone know of a decent mormon discussion irc channel somewhere? |
| 17:33.33 | Gate | at the moment #utah is discussing alcohol prohibition and the Mormon view of it... |
| 17:33.51 | harleypig | #utah is a waste of time |
| 17:33.58 | Gate | generally. |
| 17:35.01 | harleypig | while I'm asking, anyone happen to know a reference to the concept of spirits not being able to interact with each other directly (e.g., they regard the time between death and resurrection as a prison because they can't give loved ones hugs)? |
| 17:42.01 | smcquay | harleypig: do you mean versus 4-5: http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/129?lang=eng |
| 17:43.09 | harleypig | No, that's the interaction between mortal and immortal (pre-mortal or non-resurrected) beings. |
| 17:43.22 | harleypig | unresurrected? |
| 17:44.37 | smcquay | undead? |
| 17:44.50 | harleypig | I have this vague quote running around in my head, along the lines of "part of the reason the dead view the spirit world as a prison is because they can't be intimate with their loved ones" |
| 17:44.59 | harleypig | :] nah ... them's vampires and zombies and sucj |
| 17:45.04 | harleypig | s/j/h/ |
| 17:47.11 | harleypig | So, basically, that reference tells us what mortal <-> (pre-mortal|post-mortal(resurrected or not)) interaction is like |
| 17:47.45 | harleypig | but not what (pre|post)-mortal <-> (pre|post)-mortal interaction is like |
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| 17:50.06 | harleypig | My reason for asking is, http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131?lang=eng#7 seems to be in disagreement with that vague quote running around in my head. |
| 18:07.21 | harleypig | Hmmm ... second to last paragraph at http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Spirit_World lends even more weight to that vague quote being either wrong or misheard |
| 19:20.47 | shalkie | Ay yea... Dag wieers has put out the feelers for a community built RHEL spin. It has already been shooshed on the CentOS mailing list. |
| 19:24.07 | shalkie | s/Ay/Ah, |
| 19:24.18 | shalkie | s/,/\// |
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| 19:34.24 | goozbach | shalkie: linky? |
| 19:34.36 | goozbach | I'd be interested in helping with that |
| 19:34.42 | goozbach | I respect the hell out of Dag |
| 19:36.56 | herlo | shalkie: really? I'd like to see that too |
| 19:41.42 | fozzmoo | Yeah- that'd be cool... or maybe if CentOS guys pulled their heads out... that'd be cool too. |
| 19:41.53 | goozbach | *snort* at fozzmoo |
| 19:42.26 | fozzmoo | snorts back. |
| 19:48.01 | goozbach | found it: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2011-April/109827.html |
| 19:49.27 | goozbach | tweet in question: http://twitter.com/#!/dagwieers/status/57563280260087808 |
| 19:50.10 | herlo | fozzmoo: not sure they have their heads anywhere, fozzmoo |
| 19:52.18 | fozzmoo | So... if your mailing list has more traffic than the Xen list... you're not allowed to talk about competing projects? |
| 19:56.00 | goozbach | that's sound logic! |
| 20:01.54 | shalkie | Sorry Goozbach, I should have sent that. |
| 20:02.10 | shalkie | herlo: Yeah. I have already voluntered, but am a bit cash strapped. |
| 20:02.24 | herlo | it requires money?? |
| 20:02.46 | shalkie | Not that I know, but his question was about getting funds: |
| 20:03.01 | herlo | oh, haven't had time to read up |
| 20:03.13 | shalkie | " Anyone willing to fund a RHEL rebuild project with timely releases, transparent processes and fosters community involvement ?" |
| 20:03.38 | goozbach | someone who has a spare license should spin up a RHEL box, download all the SRPMS, setup koji and go to town |
| 20:03.53 | goozbach | I think the centos community is getting burnt out |
| 20:04.17 | goozbach | their current infrastructure isn't allowing them to move at the speed that their "customers" expect |
| 20:04.37 | herlo | goozbach: I think I could fulfill your first statement |
| 20:04.45 | goozbach | s/infrastructure/infrastructure, policies, and core team/ |
| 20:06.08 | goozbach | I wonder how much a EC2 instance which could run koji to do this would cost per month |
| 20:06.20 | herlo | goozbach: I think you'd need a few doezen boxes for building, mailing list, etc... |
| 20:06.32 | herlo | well, at least a dozen |
| 20:06.36 | fozzmoo | GoozbachOS |
| 20:06.41 | shalkie | To make matters worse, they hold the community at arms length. There was a thread not to long ago where Dag brought up the fact that there could be more community involvement in the build process and more transparent processes. He got roughly rebuked. |
| 20:06.47 | fozzmoo | GoOS. |
| 20:06.51 | herlo | lol |
| 20:06.55 | herlo | GoozOS |
| 20:06.58 | herlo | likes that |
| 20:07.14 | fozzmoo | Yeah, that'll win the suits over. |
| 20:07.18 | shalkie | GoOSe? The dev project could be called Maverick? |
| 20:07.45 | goozbach | I like GoOSe |
| 20:07.54 | herlo | lol |
| 20:07.58 | goozbach | shalkie: the first release would be maverick |
| 20:08.12 | goozbach | herlo: how a dozen? |
| 20:08.17 | goozbach | code on github |
| 20:08.25 | goozbach | mailing list on google groups |
| 20:08.53 | herlo | building different arches, deployment, mirroring, etc |
| 20:08.59 | goozbach | one RHEL box with a subscription to get notified of updates and download the SRPM using yum |
| 20:09.10 | herlo | maybe |
| 20:09.21 | goozbach | one box running koji |
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| 20:09.35 | goozbach | one webhost with rsync/ftp/http |
| 20:09.36 | herlo | bodhi |
| 20:09.38 | goozbach | boom done |
| 20:09.41 | fozzmoo | Maybe CentOS only has one box and they've been rpmbuild-ing packages since RHEL6 came out. :) |
| 20:09.58 | goozbach | bodhi? |
| 20:10.00 | herlo | mirrors |
| 20:10.24 | shalkie | Apparently they have a number of boxes, but they aren't actually owned by the project. I guess they are volunteered from various companies and people. |
| 20:10.31 | herlo | goozbach: it's the service that lets one download and test packages, give karma, etc |
| 20:10.37 | goozbach | ahh |
| 20:10.41 | shalkie | I have thing2 sitting here. And I am looking at getting an old 1U server from the U. |
| 20:10.45 | herlo | bbiab, teaching |
| 20:10.45 | goozbach | is it resource intensive? |
| 20:11.19 | goozbach | supermicro has a new four-way box (four servers in 2RMU) redundant power shared among the four. |
| 20:11.35 | goozbach | if we could get one of those hosted somewhere we'd be in a good spot |
| 20:11.35 | fozzmoo | drools |
| 20:11.52 | shalkie | Nice. My budget is around the $40 the old server costs. :-) |
| 20:11.58 | goozbach | to have GoOSe hosted |
| 20:12.18 | shalkie | What about a linode system? |
| 20:13.01 | goozbach | couldn't bodhi and koji and the web host be all on the same box? |
| 20:13.05 | shalkie | Don't think it would have the build power of an EC2 system, but certainly have some. |
| 20:14.13 | shalkie | bb. Teaching |
| 20:14.53 | fozzmoo | My brother in law says GoOSe reminds him too much of "goatse" |
| 20:15.32 | fozzmoo | Just call it utosOS. :) |
| 20:16.32 | goozbach | OSUTOS |
| 20:16.46 | fozzmoo | Or backwards: SOTUSO |
| 20:17.08 | goozbach | OSoUTOS |
| 20:17.20 | goozbach | operatingsystem of utahopensource |
| 20:25.32 | herlo | nice |
| 20:26.50 | Jayce^ | can't wait for the first flamewar when some package isn't included... |
| 20:27.01 | Jayce^ | *somebody* will claim it's church direction :-D |
| 20:28.35 | goozbach | bhahaha |
| 20:28.55 | goozbach | I did some calculations |
| 20:29.01 | goozbach | we could bootstrap with 4 servers |
| 20:29.30 | herlo | goozbach: I could see that |
| 20:29.41 | goozbach | 1) bastion host: runs puppetmaster, freeIPA; acts as account management server |
| 20:29.46 | herlo | I'm fairly interested in helping with that |
| 20:29.47 | shalkie | I have some servers hanging around. |
| 20:29.49 | goozbach | 2) buildsys |
| 20:29.57 | goozbach | runs koji and bodhi |
| 20:30.05 | goozbach | uses kerb from bastion host |
| 20:30.11 | herlo | you'd probably need a second buildsystem |
| 20:30.22 | herlo | depending on how heavy things got, but maybe not at first |
| 20:30.44 | herlo | seeing as koji can pass off building to other services, we could bootstrap to one of the other machines |
| 20:30.52 | herlo | s/services/systems/ |
| 20:31.01 | goozbach | 3) downloads.$PROJ: hosts public httpd downloads, rsync downloads, ftp downloads, and public main www for project |
| 20:31.26 | goozbach | 3) private host: acts as RSYNC master for all approved top-level mirrors |
| 20:31.35 | herlo | s/3/4/ |
| 20:31.35 | goozbach | 4) private host: acts as RSYNC master for all approved top-level mirrors |
| 20:31.39 | herlo | :) |
| 20:32.00 | herlo | what kind of disk space will we need? |
| 20:32.00 | goozbach | get xmission and a few other places which we have connections to be our first miirors |
| 20:32.06 | goozbach | xmission UofU, BYU |
| 20:32.09 | herlo | sure sure, not a biggie |
| 20:32.10 | goozbach | GT |
| 20:32.11 | goozbach | UGA |
| 20:32.23 | goozbach | herlo: that's the sticky one |
| 20:32.38 | goozbach | koji/bodhi would eat a great deal |
| 20:32.42 | herlo | indeed, I'm guessing in the 2-4TB range |
| 20:33.00 | goozbach | maybe I could talk coraid into donating/discounting an array |
| 20:33.02 | herlo | which isn't horrible |
| 20:33.03 | fozzmoo | I was just talking to a mutual friend of ours... about hosting a 2U (4 node) machine. |
| 20:33.20 | goozbach | all the other stuff |
| 20:33.28 | goozbach | bugtracker/source code |
| 20:33.30 | goozbach | github |
| 20:33.35 | goozbach | mailing list google groups |
| 20:33.39 | goozbach | and POW! |
| 20:33.41 | goozbach | done |
| 20:34.00 | herlo | hmm |
| 20:34.03 | goozbach | you have a completely transparent, easily extensible distro |
| 20:34.35 | goozbach | only server not directly accessable is the bastion host/puppet server |
| 20:34.43 | goozbach | ie HTTP/FTP/ETC |
| 20:34.59 | goozbach | fozzmoo: look 4U |
| 20:35.25 | goozbach | I'll see about a 2U coraid box |
| 20:35.30 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 20:35.35 | goozbach | even if it's an old decrepd |
| 20:35.43 | goozbach | coraid return or whatnot |
| 20:36.10 | goozbach | oh yeah |
| 20:36.17 | goozbach | and we'd have a channel here on freenode |
| 20:36.24 | fozzmoo | How many drives can you put in a 2U coraid? 8? |
| 20:36.32 | goozbach | 24 2.5" |
| 20:36.44 | fozzmoo | coughs |
| 20:36.56 | goozbach | *shrug* |
| 20:37.31 | fozzmoo | Oh wow! SuperMicro finally quit relegating their AMD products to some out of the way corner of their website. |
| 20:38.50 | fozzmoo | Never mind. Still in the out of the way corner. |
| 20:45.54 | fozzmoo | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101329 |
| 20:45.56 | fozzmoo | Only $3k |
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| 21:05.40 | shalkie | Hmmm... #goose is taken it appears. |
| 21:09.26 | goozbach | fozzmoo: is it 3k for barebones or ready to use? |
| 21:09.31 | goozbach | would we have to supply disks? |
| 21:09.41 | fozzmoo | barebones. |
| 21:09.47 | fozzmoo | No CPUs, No RAM, no disks. |
| 21:10.16 | goozbach | oohh |
| 21:10.23 | goozbach | that's gonna add to the cost |
| 21:10.43 | fozzmoo | Yeah. Apparently whipping up a CentOS competitor is not cheap. |
| 21:11.10 | fozzmoo | I'd ballpark the hardware to be around $8-10k |
| 21:13.59 | goozbach | http://www.siliconmechanics.com/i27502/Opteron-2U-4-Node.php |
| 21:14.06 | goozbach | that's a supermicro integrator |
| 21:14.18 | goozbach | and the server we have sitting on our bar right now |
| 21:16.26 | fozzmoo | Only 8 core CPUs? ;-) |
| 21:16.49 | goozbach | $7475 |
| 21:16.51 | goozbach | http://www.siliconmechanics.com/quotes/201605?confirmation=127156574 |
| 21:16.58 | goozbach | thats minimim price |
| 21:17.02 | fozzmoo | Hmmm. Replacing them with 12-core CPUs would only add $4400 or so to the cost. :) |
| 21:17.03 | goozbach | one CPU per node |
| 21:17.18 | goozbach | who's in? |
| 21:17.50 | fozzmoo | $7475... that's $3737 between the two of us, goozbach. |
| 21:19.09 | goozbach | 16TB should be enough storage to start, no? |
| 21:19.37 | goozbach | well 12 and parity |
| 21:20.00 | fozzmoo | That's what Bill Gates said. |
| 21:20.04 | fozzmoo | Or something like htat. |
| 21:35.04 | goozbach | oh yes |
| 21:35.18 | goozbach | that also includes a subscription to RHEL6 for one of the nodes |
| 21:35.20 | goozbach | :) |
| 21:36.49 | goozbach | who else wants to pony up some monies? |
| 21:36.57 | goozbach | spread thin enough it becomes doable |
| 21:37.50 | goozbach | I do like GooZe Linux |
| 21:37.59 | goozbach | or GoOSe Linux |
| 21:42.32 | fozzmoo | Yo don't like SOTUSO? :) |
| 21:43.27 | goozbach | GoOSe Linux rolls off the tounge easier |
| 21:44.37 | goozbach | heck before we buy this, who has servers sitting doing nothing? |
| 21:44.41 | goozbach | let's try to build it |
| 21:45.01 | fugue88 | I've got an Atom processor sitting mostly idle... |
| 21:48.41 | shalkie | I have some spare hardware. All older stuff though. I have a couple older Suns (Including a cobalt qube3), an older pentium system and I am going to go snag a system from the U for various reasons. ;-) |
| 21:49.02 | shalkie | And that doesn't involve the two packard bell pentium systems. :-D |
| 21:50.10 | shalkie | Oh and a laptop or two hanging around that are going idle as well. Oh and the HP PA Risc system. |
| 21:50.51 | shalkie | I know I have some more hardware, but all older... |
| 21:52.24 | fugue88 | Sounds like we've got ourselves a cloud! |
| 21:52.38 | fugue88 | goozbach: Let's get started, already. |
| 21:52.55 | fugue88 | ;) |
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| 23:49.00 | shalkie | Dag responded through twitter (and the CentOS mailing list). Apparently he isn't starting his own spin. :-( Though his comment to me was that there seemed to be plenty of interest. |
| 23:49.07 | shalkie | I like the idea of doing goose though. |
| 23:57.27 | herlo | shalkie: what does goose stand dor? |
| 23:57.28 | herlo | for |
| 23:58.44 | shalkie | It was a play off of GoozOS. |
| 23:58.58 | herlo | right, but it should stand for something |
| 23:59.13 | herlo | like 'Good Old Operating System Environment' |
| 23:59.41 | herlo | 'Goozbach's Ornate OS Extraordinaire' |
