IRC log for #utos on 20110412

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12:21.13herlomorning
12:49.46herlowow, GNOME3 is fast!
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14:15.28fugue88herlo: Really?  I read somewhere in the tubes that just moving your mouse cursor consumers 25% CPU.  Maybe he didn't have an accelerating graphics driver.
14:16.26fozzmooThe KDE4 vs Gnome3 review sided with KDE4.
14:17.02fugue88Case closed.
14:17.03fugue88:)
14:20.33herlofugue88: it's probably due to the graphics, but it isn't consuming my cpu :)
14:20.40herlofozzmoo: how old is the review?
14:20.47fozzmooLast week.
14:20.52fozzmooLinux Mag.
14:21.25herlohuh, well, GNOME3 is still new and will definitely need time, but I'm using it now and it's definitely fast on my x201
14:22.58fozzmooI think it's probably suffering from some of the same problems KDE4 did when it was first released.
14:23.16fozzmooIncomplete admin utilities, unoptimized components, etc.
14:24.11fozzmooNo, it wasn't Linux Mag...
14:24.22fozzmooIt was Datamation.
14:24.24fozzmoohttp://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3930006/GNOME-vs-KDE-The-Latest-Round.htm
14:25.16fozzmooThis paragraph was most interesting to me: Running nothing except a virtual terminal, GNOME 3 consumes 883  megabytes of RAM on a one gigabyte notebook. Not only is this  requirement more than twice that of GNOME 2.32, but it compares  unfavorably with the 615 megabytes needed by KDE 4.6. Realistically, it  means that two gigabytes of RAM would be a realistic requirement for  GNOME 3 unless you have the patience to continually use the swap  partition. That probabl
14:26.32*** join/#utos nibb13 (~nibb13@206.71.87.254)
14:27.04herlowill read that...
14:27.32herloruns htop now to discover his ram/cpu useage
14:30.29herlofozzmoo: fugue88: http://herlo.org/misc/my-gnome3.png
14:30.55herloalso notes this is running a Fedora 15 Beta live image
14:31.12fugue88herlo: GNOME 3 is all text!
14:31.14fugue88:P
14:31.23herlofugue88: haha, hang on
14:33.04herlofugue88: here you go: http://herlo.org/misc/my-gnome3-desktop.png
14:33.04fozzmoofugue88: :)
14:33.22fozzmooLooks like a kiosk.
14:34.23herloyeah, like KDE4.0 was any better
14:35.12fugue88herlo: Can you disable all those icons in the "previously-known-as-the-desktop" space?
14:35.33fugue88Or are those there just because you're typing in the search box?
14:35.44herlofugue88: the default screen is blank
14:36.03herloyou can choose Activities and it pulls that up (or Alt+F1)
14:36.27fugue88I like how "t" matches "Movie Player"  I wonder if any normal user knows it's called Totem.
14:36.34fugue88is assuming that's Totem
14:37.02fugue88Well, it's pretty, at least.
14:39.33nibb13i miss my gnome-panel in gnome-shell and unity
14:40.53herlonibb13: do you use unity?
14:41.06herloI'm interested in trying it out, but not so interested in Ubuntu
14:41.36nibb13running unity on ubuntu 11.4 right now
14:41.48nibb13it is very similar to gnome-shell
14:42.25nibb13so much so i think they will merge in the future
14:43.29nibb13i have been using shell off and on for the last few months, then when ubuntu 11.4 went beta i jumped on that to try unity
14:43.47nibb13then i went back to shell for a week
14:44.19nibb13the main difference unity uses menu intigration on the top bar ala mac os
14:45.19fugue88Seems like a very old GNOME had that menu-bar integration.  I actually mostly liked it.
14:45.35fugue88Well, similar menu-bar integration, at least.
14:46.06nibb13it gives you a little more room on the screen which is nice
14:46.27nibb13but easy customization has been tossed out
14:46.43nibb13which is a huge bummer
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14:51.18nibb13anyone have a sec to help me with a basic apache mod_rewrite .htaccess question?
14:51.39fugue88nibb13: Just ask it.  :)
14:52.30nibb13my company's webmistress wants to have website visitors auto redirected
14:52.55nibb13example:  vistor type www.url.com/foo and they go to www.url.com/foo.html
14:53.14fozzmooYou can probably do that with a Redirect.
14:53.20fozzmooDon't need to use mod_rewrite.
14:53.38fozzmooRedirect /foo http://www.foo.com/foo.html
14:53.59fozzmooOr do you mean 'foo' as a generic pattern?
14:54.07nibb13generic pattern
14:55.04nibb13same for www.url.com/wakawaka to www.url.com/wakawaka.html
14:55.04nibb13etc
14:55.11fozzmooRedirectMatch (^/[a-z]+$) http://www.url.com$1.html
14:55.50nibb13sweet
14:55.56nibb13thanks
14:56.09fozzmoohttp://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_alias.html#redirectmatch
14:57.04nibb13cool, i was barking up the wrong tree going after clean urls
14:57.16nibb13explains why it wasnt making any sense
15:12.39nibb13does xmission hosting have mod_alias enabled?
15:14.45fozzmooI can't imagine why they wouldn't.
15:19.00nibb13they do, sorry
15:19.33nibb13how would i include numbers in the pattern?
15:19.41nibb13that appears to be the issue
15:20.11fugue88[a-z] becomes [a-z0-9] perhaps?
15:20.31fugue88(And that won't match uppercase, or symbols)
15:26.25nibb13that worked, thanks
15:27.23fugue88Cool.
15:28.08fugue88nibb13: Learn you some regex for great good.  `man pcre` is a good starting point.  :)
15:28.46fugue88Regular expressions are such a handy tool, and have a fairly wide-spread use.
15:29.00smcquayi used them to make breakfast
15:29.14fugue88smcquay: You're awesome!
15:29.20smcquayno, pcre are awesome
15:29.50fugue88I'm using them in my plan for world domination (in baby steps).
15:30.13fugue88Baby steps with minimal backtracking.  ;)
15:33.04shalkieregex is just generally awesome. $(man regex).
15:43.16nibb13looks like i have some reading to do
15:50.55*** join/#utos cro (~cro@204-228-149-217.ip.xmission.com)
15:55.29nibb13what about this statement in the .htaccess file
15:55.49nibb13<If "$reg{Host} = 'foo.com'">
15:56.15nibb13RedirectMatch (.*) http://www.foo.com$1 </If>
15:57.07nibb13everytime she uploads the .htaccess with it, the rediredct works but we get 500 internal server errors
15:57.20nibb13for every page
15:59.14herlofugue88: yeah, the names sometimes get me too
15:59.31herlowhy it can't be 'Totem Movie Player' or something is beyond me
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17:00.21tristanbob_where are sudo commands logged (by default in ubuntu)
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17:33.05harleypiganyone know of a decent mormon discussion irc channel somewhere?
17:33.33Gateat the moment #utah is discussing alcohol prohibition and the Mormon view of it...
17:33.51harleypig#utah is a waste of time
17:33.58Gategenerally.
17:35.01harleypigwhile I'm asking, anyone happen to know a reference to the concept of spirits not being able to interact with each other directly (e.g., they regard the time between death and resurrection as a prison because they can't give loved ones hugs)?
17:42.01smcquayharleypig: do you mean versus 4-5: http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/129?lang=eng
17:43.09harleypigNo, that's the interaction between mortal and immortal (pre-mortal or non-resurrected) beings.
17:43.22harleypigunresurrected?
17:44.37smcquayundead?
17:44.50harleypigI have this vague quote running around in my head, along the lines of "part of the reason the dead view the spirit world as a prison is because they can't be intimate with their loved ones"
17:44.59harleypig:] nah ... them's vampires and zombies and sucj
17:45.04harleypigs/j/h/
17:47.11harleypigSo, basically, that reference tells us what mortal <-> (pre-mortal|post-mortal(resurrected or not)) interaction is like
17:47.45harleypigbut not what (pre|post)-mortal <-> (pre|post)-mortal interaction is like
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17:50.06harleypigMy reason for asking is, http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131?lang=eng#7 seems to be in disagreement with that vague quote running around in my head.
18:07.21harleypigHmmm ... second to last paragraph at http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Spirit_World lends even more weight to that vague quote being either wrong or misheard
19:20.47shalkieAy yea... Dag wieers has put out the feelers for a community built RHEL spin. It has already been shooshed on the CentOS mailing list.
19:24.07shalkies/Ay/Ah,
19:24.18shalkies/,/\//
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19:34.24goozbachshalkie: linky?
19:34.36goozbachI'd be interested in helping with that
19:34.42goozbachI respect the hell out of Dag
19:36.56herloshalkie: really? I'd like to see that too
19:41.42fozzmooYeah- that'd be cool... or maybe if CentOS guys pulled their heads out... that'd be cool too.
19:41.53goozbach*snort* at fozzmoo
19:42.26fozzmoosnorts back.
19:48.01goozbachfound it: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2011-April/109827.html
19:49.27goozbachtweet in question: http://twitter.com/#!/dagwieers/status/57563280260087808
19:50.10herlofozzmoo: not sure they have their heads anywhere, fozzmoo
19:52.18fozzmooSo... if your mailing list has more traffic than the Xen list... you're not allowed to talk about competing projects?
19:56.00goozbachthat's sound logic!
20:01.54shalkieSorry Goozbach, I should have sent that.
20:02.10shalkieherlo: Yeah. I have already voluntered, but am a bit cash strapped.
20:02.24herloit requires money??
20:02.46shalkieNot that I know, but his question was about getting funds:
20:03.01herlooh, haven't had time to read up
20:03.13shalkie" Anyone willing to fund a RHEL rebuild project with timely releases, transparent processes and fosters community involvement ?"
20:03.38goozbachsomeone who has a spare license should spin up a RHEL box, download all the SRPMS, setup koji and go to town
20:03.53goozbachI think the centos community is getting burnt out
20:04.17goozbachtheir current infrastructure isn't allowing them to move at the speed that their "customers" expect
20:04.37herlogoozbach: I think I could fulfill your first statement
20:04.45goozbachs/infrastructure/infrastructure, policies, and core team/
20:06.08goozbachI wonder how much a EC2 instance which could run koji to do this would cost per month
20:06.20herlogoozbach: I think you'd need a few doezen boxes for building, mailing list, etc...
20:06.32herlowell, at least a dozen
20:06.36fozzmooGoozbachOS
20:06.41shalkieTo make matters worse, they hold the community at arms length. There was a thread not to long ago where Dag brought up the fact that there could be more community involvement in the build process and more transparent processes. He got roughly rebuked.
20:06.47fozzmooGoOS.
20:06.51herlolol
20:06.55herloGoozOS
20:06.58herlolikes that
20:07.14fozzmooYeah, that'll win the suits over.
20:07.18shalkieGoOSe? The dev project could be called Maverick?
20:07.45goozbachI like GoOSe
20:07.54herlolol
20:07.58goozbachshalkie: the first release would be maverick
20:08.12goozbachherlo: how a dozen?
20:08.17goozbachcode on github
20:08.25goozbachmailing list on google groups
20:08.53herlobuilding different arches, deployment, mirroring, etc
20:08.59goozbachone RHEL box with a subscription to get notified of updates and download the SRPM using yum
20:09.10herlomaybe
20:09.21goozbachone box running koji
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20:09.35goozbachone webhost with rsync/ftp/http
20:09.36herlobodhi
20:09.38goozbachboom done
20:09.41fozzmooMaybe CentOS only has one box and they've been rpmbuild-ing packages since RHEL6 came out. :)
20:09.58goozbachbodhi?
20:10.00herlomirrors
20:10.24shalkieApparently they have a number of boxes, but they aren't actually owned by the project. I guess they are volunteered from various companies and people.
20:10.31herlogoozbach: it's the service that lets one download and test packages, give karma, etc
20:10.37goozbachahh
20:10.41shalkieI have thing2 sitting here. And I am looking at getting an old 1U server from the U.
20:10.45herlobbiab, teaching
20:10.45goozbachis it resource intensive?
20:11.19goozbachsupermicro has a new four-way box (four servers in 2RMU) redundant power shared among the four.
20:11.35goozbachif we could get one of those hosted somewhere we'd be in a good spot
20:11.35fozzmoodrools
20:11.52shalkieNice. My budget is around the $40 the old server costs. :-)
20:11.58goozbachto have GoOSe hosted
20:12.18shalkieWhat about a linode system?
20:13.01goozbachcouldn't bodhi and koji and the web host be all on the same box?
20:13.05shalkieDon't think it would have the build power of an EC2 system, but certainly have some.
20:14.13shalkiebb. Teaching
20:14.53fozzmooMy brother in law says GoOSe reminds him too much of "goatse"
20:15.32fozzmooJust call it utosOS. :)
20:16.32goozbachOSUTOS
20:16.46fozzmooOr backwards: SOTUSO
20:17.08goozbachOSoUTOS
20:17.20goozbachoperatingsystem of utahopensource
20:25.32herlonice
20:26.50Jayce^can't wait for the first flamewar when some package isn't included...
20:27.01Jayce^*somebody* will claim it's church direction :-D
20:28.35goozbachbhahaha
20:28.55goozbachI did some calculations
20:29.01goozbachwe could bootstrap with 4 servers
20:29.30herlogoozbach: I could see that
20:29.41goozbach1) bastion host: runs puppetmaster, freeIPA; acts as account management server
20:29.46herloI'm fairly interested in helping with that
20:29.47shalkieI have some servers hanging around.
20:29.49goozbach2) buildsys
20:29.57goozbachruns koji and bodhi
20:30.05goozbachuses kerb from bastion host
20:30.11herloyou'd probably need a second buildsystem
20:30.22herlodepending on how heavy things got, but maybe not at first
20:30.44herloseeing as koji can pass off building to other services, we could bootstrap to one of the other machines
20:30.52herlos/services/systems/
20:31.01goozbach3) downloads.$PROJ: hosts public httpd downloads, rsync downloads, ftp downloads, and public main www for project
20:31.26goozbach3) private host:  acts as RSYNC master for all approved top-level mirrors
20:31.35herlos/3/4/
20:31.35goozbach4) private host:  acts as RSYNC master for all approved top-level mirrors
20:31.39herlo:)
20:32.00herlowhat kind of disk space will we need?
20:32.00goozbachget xmission and a few other places which we have connections to be our first miirors
20:32.06goozbachxmission UofU, BYU
20:32.09herlosure sure, not a biggie
20:32.10goozbachGT
20:32.11goozbachUGA
20:32.23goozbachherlo: that's the sticky one
20:32.38goozbachkoji/bodhi would eat a great deal
20:32.42herloindeed, I'm guessing in the 2-4TB range
20:33.00goozbachmaybe I could talk coraid into donating/discounting an array
20:33.02herlowhich isn't horrible
20:33.03fozzmooI was just talking to a mutual friend of ours... about hosting a 2U (4 node) machine.
20:33.20goozbachall the other stuff
20:33.28goozbachbugtracker/source code
20:33.30goozbachgithub
20:33.35goozbachmailing list google groups
20:33.39goozbachand POW!
20:33.41goozbachdone
20:34.00herlohmm
20:34.03goozbachyou have a completely transparent, easily extensible distro
20:34.35goozbachonly server not directly accessable is the bastion host/puppet server
20:34.43goozbachie HTTP/FTP/ETC
20:34.59goozbachfozzmoo: look 4U
20:35.25goozbachI'll see about a 2U coraid box
20:35.30fozzmoo:)
20:35.35goozbacheven if it's an old decrepd
20:35.43goozbachcoraid return or whatnot
20:36.10goozbachoh yeah
20:36.17goozbachand we'd have a channel here on freenode
20:36.24fozzmooHow many drives can you put in a 2U coraid? 8?
20:36.32goozbach24 2.5"
20:36.44fozzmoocoughs
20:36.56goozbach*shrug*
20:37.31fozzmooOh wow! SuperMicro finally quit relegating their AMD products to some out of the way corner of their website.
20:38.50fozzmooNever mind. Still in the out of the way corner.
20:45.54fozzmoohttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101329
20:45.56fozzmooOnly $3k
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21:05.40shalkieHmmm... #goose is taken it appears.
21:09.26goozbachfozzmoo: is it 3k for barebones or ready to use?
21:09.31goozbachwould we have to supply disks?
21:09.41fozzmoobarebones.
21:09.47fozzmooNo CPUs, No RAM, no disks.
21:10.16goozbachoohh
21:10.23goozbachthat's gonna add to the cost
21:10.43fozzmooYeah. Apparently whipping up a CentOS competitor is not cheap.
21:11.10fozzmooI'd ballpark the hardware to be around $8-10k
21:13.59goozbachhttp://www.siliconmechanics.com/i27502/Opteron-2U-4-Node.php
21:14.06goozbachthat's a supermicro integrator
21:14.18goozbachand the server we have sitting on our bar right now
21:16.26fozzmooOnly 8 core CPUs? ;-)
21:16.49goozbach$7475
21:16.51goozbachhttp://www.siliconmechanics.com/quotes/201605?confirmation=127156574
21:16.58goozbachthats minimim price
21:17.02fozzmooHmmm. Replacing them with 12-core CPUs would only add $4400 or so to the cost. :)
21:17.03goozbachone CPU per node
21:17.18goozbachwho's in?
21:17.50fozzmoo$7475... that's $3737 between the two of us, goozbach.
21:19.09goozbach16TB should be enough storage to start, no?
21:19.37goozbachwell 12 and parity
21:20.00fozzmooThat's what Bill Gates said.
21:20.04fozzmooOr something like htat.
21:35.04goozbachoh yes
21:35.18goozbachthat also includes a subscription to RHEL6 for one of the nodes
21:35.20goozbach:)
21:36.49goozbachwho else wants to pony up some monies?
21:36.57goozbachspread thin enough it becomes doable
21:37.50goozbachI do like GooZe Linux
21:37.59goozbachor GoOSe Linux
21:42.32fozzmooYo don't like SOTUSO? :)
21:43.27goozbachGoOSe Linux rolls off the tounge easier
21:44.37goozbachheck before we buy this, who has servers sitting doing nothing?
21:44.41goozbachlet's try to build it
21:45.01fugue88I've got an Atom processor sitting mostly idle...
21:48.41shalkieI have some spare hardware. All older stuff though. I have a couple older Suns (Including a cobalt qube3), an older pentium system and I am going to go snag a system from the U for various reasons. ;-)
21:49.02shalkieAnd that doesn't involve the two packard bell pentium systems. :-D
21:50.10shalkieOh and a laptop or two hanging around that are going idle as well. Oh and the HP PA Risc system.
21:50.51shalkieI know I have some more hardware, but all older...
21:52.24fugue88Sounds like we've got ourselves a cloud!
21:52.38fugue88goozbach: Let's get started, already.
21:52.55fugue88;)
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23:49.00shalkieDag responded through twitter (and the CentOS mailing list). Apparently he isn't starting his own spin. :-( Though his comment to me was that there seemed to be plenty of interest.
23:49.07shalkieI like the idea of doing goose though.
23:57.27herloshalkie: what does goose stand dor?
23:57.28herlofor
23:58.44shalkieIt was a play off of GoozOS.
23:58.58herloright, but it should stand for something
23:59.13herlolike 'Good Old Operating System Environment'
23:59.41herlo'Goozbach's Ornate OS Extraordinaire'

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