| 00:06.47 | *** part/#ubuntu-utah tonedevf (n=dave@155.100.73.251) |
| 00:26.07 | Zelut | synic: can't you do */10 for every ten minutes? |
| 00:29.53 | Zelut | ok, what was I doing.. |
| 00:34.37 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah sontek (n=sontek@unaffiliated/sontek) |
| 00:42.34 | Zelut | atoponce: ping - introplay question |
| 00:45.47 | Zelut | jbot: say Zelut |
| 00:45.48 | jbot | Zelut |
| 00:46.06 | Zelut | jbot: say Zelut again |
| 00:46.07 | jbot | Zelut again |
| 00:51.48 | Zelut | jbot: say Zelut again |
| 00:51.49 | jbot | Zelut again |
| 00:51.59 | Zelut | ...what am I missing for that script |
| 00:54.28 | Zelut | hmm.. thought I had everything set for that irssi script but it must not be going |
| 00:57.59 | Zelut | jbot: say Zelut |
| 00:58.00 | jbot | Zelut |
| 01:01.41 | Zelut | hmm.. my notify-send doesn't work |
| 01:13.35 | Zelut | jbot: say Zelut |
| 01:13.36 | jbot | Zelut |
| 01:19.33 | Zelut | jbot: say Zelut again please.. last time. |
| 01:19.33 | jbot | Zelut again please.. last time. |
| 01:25.44 | herlo | jbot: say Zelut |
| 01:25.44 | jbot | Zelut |
| 01:25.49 | herlo | jbot: he lied to you |
| 01:25.54 | Zelut | working now |
| 01:26.00 | herlo | Zelut: what are you doing/ |
| 01:26.01 | herlo | ? |
| 01:26.02 | Zelut | oddly notify-send would not work until I reboot |
| 01:26.10 | herlo | Zelut: that is odd |
| 01:26.50 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah Yorokobi (n=Yorokobi@unaffiliated/yorokobi) |
| 01:28.26 | herlo | Yorokobi: hello man! |
| 01:31.54 | Yorokobi | hola, herlo |
| 01:37.00 | herlo | Yorokobi: whatcha up to? |
| 01:42.49 | Yorokobi | I'm uploading photos taken of the Milford fire |
| 01:44.56 | Yorokobi | http://picasaweb.google.com/colbyw/MilfordFire |
| 01:45.27 | Yorokobi | There's a reflection of my UofU hat in several of them, unfortunately |
| 01:49.07 | Yorokobi | Anyway, going to dinner now. |
| 01:52.17 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah Gate (n=devans@209-33-225-223.dsl.infowest.net) |
| 01:52.23 | herlo | Yorokobi: didn't even know about that fire |
| 01:52.49 | herlo | Yorokobi: I'll have to look that up |
| 01:52.56 | Gate | the one near beaver or the one south of St. George? |
| 02:17.31 | atoponce | Zelut: pong |
| 02:18.15 | Zelut | atoponce: well I used introPlay. I think you may have convinced me :) |
| 02:18.33 | atoponce | sweet |
| 02:18.40 | atoponce | it's a cool app |
| 02:23.43 | atoponce | Zelut: so, do you have any questions about it? |
| 02:35.29 | herlo | http://tinyurl.com/23mp6g |
| 02:38.17 | Zelut | atoponce: I think I figured it out, but it was a UI kind of question at the time. |
| 02:38.25 | atoponce | ok. cool |
| 02:45.32 | Zelut | atoponce: did you check out the morning coffee extension? |
| 02:48.29 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah Yorokobi_ (n=Yorokobi@mail.yorokobi.us) |
| 02:51.01 | Yorokobi_ | Gate, the pics are of the Milford fire. Though, I did see both fires on the south side of the Virgin River Gorge on my way back from Lake Mead |
| 02:51.22 | Gate | ah |
| 02:51.41 | Gate | I can see the smoke from the gorge area out my window |
| 02:52.10 | Yorokobi | yeah, its a smokey one. |
| 02:56.05 | atoponce | Zelut: yeah. pretty cool |
| 03:09.12 | herlo | atoponce: I agree with Zelut. I like the new stuff you've done. Much improved |
| 03:46.36 | Zelut | I think I might start using Google Reader. It's much improved from the last time I used it. |
| 04:09.22 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah stuporglu2 (n=caroline@72.8.105.17) |
| 04:09.45 | herlo | check this out to whilst you are checking things out: http://captions.illmeyer.com/?do=5;41247;ImAVAw |
| 04:36.35 | Zelut | atoponce: is there a page to report introplay bugs? (i'm sure that's just what you want to hear) |
| 04:38.13 | Gate | wow. Flames are now visible from St. George proper. |
| 04:47.56 | atoponce | Zelut: there's a contact us link at the bottom of the site |
| 04:49.09 | stuporglu2 | Gate: Is there a fire? |
| 04:49.18 | Gate | yep |
| 04:49.26 | Gate | at least 4 in the state |
| 04:49.37 | Gate | 3 of which are within a few miles of the freeway |
| 04:49.44 | herlo | stuporglu2: somebody posted about it earlier, let me see if I can find the pics |
| 04:49.54 | sontek | raventh1: ping |
| 05:00.05 | Yorokobi | stuporglu2, here's the link to some photos I took as I drove past the Milford Plains fire near I-15: http://picasaweb.google.com/colbyw/MilfordFire |
| 05:02.42 | herlo | yeah, that's it, don't know why I couldn't find it |
| 05:02.48 | raventh1 | sontek: pong |
| 05:03.09 | herlo | raventh1: ping |
| 05:03.18 | herlo | sontek: pig |
| 05:03.29 | herlo | Zelut: pg |
| 05:03.30 | atoponce | herlo: poop |
| 05:03.34 | herlo | atoponce: p |
| 05:03.44 | herlo | atoponce: pi |
| 05:04.23 | herlo | sontek: uh, did you know that raventh1 ponged your ping? |
| 05:05.29 | *** part/#ubuntu-utah Gate (n=devans@209-33-225-223.dsl.infowest.net) |
| 05:05.59 | raventh1 | herlo: POON |
| 05:06.06 | herlo | raventh1: TANG? |
| 05:09.02 | herlo | to a pumpkin! |
| 05:19.05 | raventh1 | sontek: well, i'm going to bed |
| 05:20.59 | raventh1 | damn comcast keeps trying to set my mtu to 574 on my internet eth >:( |
| 05:21.06 | raventh1 | no more dhcpcd fo me |
| 05:25.52 | sontek | raventh1: :o |
| 05:26.27 | sontek | raventh1: I have 2 jobs for you! |
| 05:26.47 | sontek | well, 3 |
| 05:36.01 | *** part/#ubuntu-utah stuporglu2 (n=caroline@72.8.105.17) |
| 05:43.25 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah Utah_Dave (n=boucha@c-67-172-244-53.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 05:53.39 | raventh1 | sontek: got back up |
| 05:53.46 | raventh1 | sontek: but you're not responding |
| 05:53.53 | raventh1 | sontek: I shall see you in the morning |
| 06:03.04 | *** part/#ubuntu-utah Utah_Dave (n=boucha@c-67-172-244-53.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 13:27.58 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah kissotdragon (n=kissotdr@66.117.209.185) |
| 14:36.31 | Zelut | herlo: read and write to GCal: http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/07/10/thunderbird-and-lightning-read-and-write-access-to-google-calendar/ |
| 14:41.56 | maquis | sweet... in my game on the way to work this morning, i managed to summon a peaceful demon prince... |
| 14:54.07 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah Hunding (n=denns@VDSL-151-118-128-96.DNVR.QWEST.NET) |
| 14:54.48 | Hunding | if I wanted my computer to go down at 10 AM automatically, how would I do that? |
| 14:55.41 | Zelut | Hunding: shutdown at 10:00am? a cronjob should do it. |
| 14:56.14 | Hunding | Zelut: OK :) how do I set a cronjob via command line? |
| 14:56.32 | Zelut | Hunding: sudo crontab -e, add a line with something like 0 10 * * * init 0 &>/dev/null |
| 14:56.37 | Zelut | ..just off the top of my head. |
| 14:57.30 | Hunding | can I just do something like sudo shutdown '60'-h ? |
| 14:57.35 | Yorokobi | You need 5 time fields, so add another asterisk |
| 14:57.55 | Zelut | Yorokobi: there are 5 fields there. 0min, 10hr * * * |
| 14:58.11 | Yorokobi | ah, I missed the 0 |
| 14:58.29 | Zelut | Hunding: init 0 is basically shutdown, but shutdown command works too |
| 15:00.50 | maquis | ??sacrifice |
| 15:00.57 | maquis | er |
| 15:00.59 | maquis | wrong window |
| 15:02.56 | Hunding | denns@denns-desktop:~$ sudo shutdown 60 -H |
| 15:02.56 | Hunding | Broadcast message from denns@denns-desktop (/dev/pts/3) at 9:00 ... |
| 15:02.56 | Hunding | The system is going down for halt in 60 minutes! |
| 15:03.22 | Hunding | will it give me a countdown...or is that the only warning I get? |
| 15:03.46 | Zelut | Hunding: that works. if you want to automate that with cron replace the 0 10 * * * with 0 9 * * *. |
| 15:04.11 | Zelut | but it looks like you don't want this to be a daily thing? |
| 15:04.12 | Hunding | I don't want it to go down everyday...only this once |
| 15:04.20 | Hunding | yea Zelut :) |
| 15:04.22 | Zelut | gotcha. me and my assumptions :) |
| 15:13.01 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah undertakingyou (n=will@70.97.48.98) |
| 15:20.42 | herlo | Zelut: that'll be nice when I get UTOS' calendaring system up and running. I'd like to have my meetings and such in Lightning as well as online |
| 15:22.06 | maquis | Hunding: then you want at |
| 15:23.07 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah {phoenyx} (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 15:28.21 | Zelut | herlo: ping |
| 15:28.55 | Zelut | herlo: I'm trying cvs add /path/to/file after creating a fix for the tsmenu, but I get 'absolute pathname illegal for server' |
| 15:32.02 | synic | cd /path/to && cvs add file |
| 15:32.22 | Zelut | synic: that works. thanks. |
| 15:32.34 | Zelut | I'm kind of getting a crash course in cvs this week |
| 15:33.59 | synic | cvs/svn rock... one of those things that I ran around the office like an excited idiot when I found out how to use them |
| 15:35.08 | Zelut | I definitely see some cool uses for it, it's just pretty new for me yet. |
| 15:35.35 | Zelut | I'm updating scripts we use here at work and kind of had to learn it on the fly |
| 15:48.58 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah tapH20guru (n=tapH20gu@63.133.148.226) |
| 15:58.28 | findlay | cvs is, um, an old legacy program that has well earned it's retirement |
| 15:58.42 | findlay | svn is OK, but there are better RCS's out there |
| 15:58.43 | atoponce | ~cvs |
| 15:58.44 | jbot | well, cvs is concurrent versions systems. more info here http://www.cvshome.org/. |
| 15:58.58 | atoponce | findlay: bzr? |
| 15:59.24 | findlay | yes, and mercurial and git |
| 15:59.32 | findlay | darcs |
| 15:59.45 | atoponce | i like svn. seems to do pretty well |
| 16:00.06 | findlay | but all the cool kids want distributed |
| 16:00.25 | atoponce | distributed? |
| 16:00.47 | findlay | yes, basically svn is the only rcs that isn't distributed |
| 16:01.11 | atoponce | what do you mean? i'm not familiar with distributed vcs |
| 16:01.58 | findlay | I believe it means that each checkout has a full copy of the repository |
| 16:24.30 | Zelut | Service to Subscribers that |
| 16:24.30 | Zelut | continue to use an inordinate level of bandwidth due to peer-to-peer file |
| 16:24.30 | Zelut | sharing and related downloads after being informed by Ygnition Networks of |
| 16:24.31 | Zelut | the unacceptable usage, may be terminated without notice. |
| 16:24.44 | Zelut | can anyone tell me what 'inordinate' means? |
| 16:24.54 | atoponce | !g define:inordinate |
| 16:24.55 | UtahBot | excessive: beyond normal limits; "excessive charges"; "a book of inordinate length"; "his dress stops just short of undue elegance"; "unreasonable demands" @ http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=inordinate ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=all&q=define:inordinate ) |
| 16:25.11 | Zelut | well, I guess I'm looking for a solid number :) |
| 16:25.22 | {phoenyx} | yeah, sounds kinda subjective |
| 16:25.28 | Zelut | some ISPs 'inordinate' could mean 100G, 20G, etc.. |
| 16:25.42 | atoponce | Zelut: more xmission trouble? :) |
| 16:25.45 | Zelut | I guess I'll have to call them. These are the only people available for internet at our new address currently |
| 16:25.54 | Zelut | atoponce: no, our new potential ISP |
| 16:26.10 | Zelut | sadly, xmission has been disconnected for more than a month. |
| 16:26.19 | {phoenyx} | they have an irc channel as well (I've found them to be helpful there) |
| 16:26.29 | atoponce | Zelut: who's the new isp? |
| 16:26.44 | Zelut | atoponce: http://ygnition.com ??? |
| 16:26.56 | atoponce | ahh. ygnition networks. :) |
| 16:27.00 | Zelut | never heard of 'em before, but they are apparently the only one there |
| 16:27.09 | atoponce | not even comcast, eh? |
| 16:27.30 | Zelut | not yet, but I think I'd prefer them at this point. |
| 16:27.43 | atoponce | that's surprising. i thought comcast was *everywhere* |
| 16:28.39 | Zelut | Comcast is "not yet available in your area" |
| 16:28.46 | Zelut | sadness and crying |
| 16:28.56 | atoponce | well, good luck with the lame isp |
| 16:28.57 | atoponce | :) |
| 16:28.58 | findlay | Zelut: your bandwidth stops just short of undue elegance? :) |
| 16:29.24 | Zelut | I should call them and see what the limit is |
| 16:29.45 | Zelut | http://ygnition.com/residential_terms.shtml |
| 16:29.57 | findlay | be sure to mention undue elegance |
| 16:29.58 | Zelut | I hate these agreements that basically say "we own you, do what we say or you're cut off" |
| 16:30.03 | Yorokobi | Zelut, speaking as a former ISP NOC Engineer, it is probably not a specified value |
| 16:30.31 | Zelut | Yorokobi: ..so whatever they feel is too much, or more than the neighbors, can be considered too high? |
| 16:30.53 | Yorokobi | Zelut, pretty much. We never had any customers use "too much" though. |
| 16:31.52 | Zelut | Yorokobi: my previous Xmission contract was capped at 100G is why I'm looking for a number |
| 16:31.54 | Yorokobi | Though it was fun to see the occasional DSL subscriber show up as a top talker on the flows reports |
| 16:32.11 | Yorokobi | 100G per what? Day? Month? Hour? |
| 16:32.30 | Zelut | http://ygnition.com/residential-serviceplans.shtml |
| 16:32.33 | Zelut | Yorokobi: month |
| 16:33.01 | Yorokobi | heh, I barely hit 180G after 6 months on my 7MB DSL |
| 16:33.05 | Zelut | cripes, and modem rentals are $10, whereas Comcast is $3 |
| 16:33.20 | Zelut | Yorokobi: I got up to 280G one month before they started calling :) |
| 16:33.28 | Yorokobi | wow |
| 16:33.53 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah redbeard2 (n=route@206.183.14.132) |
| 16:34.26 | atoponce | ~strangle Zelut |
| 16:34.26 | jbot | ACTION strangles Zelut with a keyboard cord. |
| 16:34.53 | Yorokobi | My usage may have been that high but I always used the 100MB and 2 DS3 connections at work for my torrent downloads :) |
| 16:35.51 | atoponce | heh. 'Total Spam Caught: 41073 (average karma: -2029)' |
| 16:36.08 | atoponce | the numbers are climbing i think |
| 16:41.19 | {phoenyx} | I'm starting a blog (tadthorley.com). Any/all feedback is appreciated. |
| 16:45.49 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah tonedevf (n=dave@155.100.73.251) |
| 17:35.44 | Zelut | {phoenyx}: my only suggestion is to not require login to comment. |
| 17:37.37 | Zelut | {phoenyx}: and some WP plugins you might like: http://christeredwards.com/plugins/ |
| 17:44.56 | {phoenyx} | so you just do a captcha instead? |
| 17:47.27 | Zelut | {phoenyx}: Akismet and Spam Karma blog the *vast* amounts of spam, and then I use math comment protection in some cases |
| 17:47.37 | Zelut | {phoenyx}: all of those plugins are on the link I posted. |
| 17:48.14 | Zelut | http://www.linux.com/feature/117225 |
| 18:29.35 | tapH20guru | is there any easy way to get a list of installed packages minus the ubuntu default ones? |
| 18:29.45 | tapH20guru | post install packages? |
| 18:31.08 | tapH20guru | maybe a history of installed package by date so I can parse through it? |
| 18:45.54 | Zelut | tapH20guru: ...I know how with rpm, but I'm not sure about deb. |
| 18:46.07 | Zelut | tapH20guru: I'd look at 'man dpkg' |
| 18:46.13 | tapH20guru | i'm digging through /var/log/dpkg.log |
| 18:46.21 | tapH20guru | it's kinda working |
| 18:49.28 | Zelut | tapH20guru: are you trying to basically restore a machine to defaults? |
| 18:50.13 | tapH20guru | i want to know what packages were installed besides the default ubuntu ones |
| 18:50.37 | tapH20guru | i'm also trying to filter out the upgraded ones |
| 18:53.10 | Zelut | /var/cache/apt/archives should be post-installed packages (unless you've done aptitude autoclean, I believe) |
| 18:53.50 | Zelut | that would probably be upgrades and manual installed packages--anything that came thru apt since installation. |
| 18:54.09 | tapH20guru | already done an autoclean :( |
| 19:07.05 | Zelut | not sure it's something I've had a need to do, but I'd be interested in a solution |
| 19:15.17 | tapH20guru | k, got it |
| 19:15.21 | tapH20guru | whew |
| 19:16.02 | tapH20guru | cat /var/log/dpkg.log* |grep -v "(initial install date)" > new_or_upgraded_packages.txt |
| 19:17.26 | tapH20guru | then i wrote a nice little ruby scrip to help me: http://pastie.caboo.se/77747 |
| 19:17.37 | tapH20guru | gotta love ruby's array subtraction |
| 19:17.52 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah {phoenyx} (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 19:18.51 | Zelut | nice |
| 19:19.11 | tapH20guru | i hope it helps |
| 19:19.57 | Zelut | well I don't know ruby, but that actually looks like it makes sense. |
| 19:22.01 | tapH20guru | ruby is *very* easy to read |
| 19:22.14 | tapH20guru | that's why non-prgrammers like me can use it :) |
| 19:22.32 | {phoenyx} | tapH20guru: what are you working on? |
| 19:26.06 | tapH20guru | there's an ubuntu box that I don't know what packages were installed after the initial installation |
| 19:26.33 | tapH20guru | i'm trying to recreate them without listing the packages that were upgraded |
| 19:26.39 | tapH20guru | and it works :) |
| 19:34.57 | Zelut | tapH20guru: so this lists just the default package base and version, minus upgrades and added software? |
| 19:48.00 | herlo | holy crap its noisy in #utah when you unignore mheath |
| 19:48.13 | atoponce | heh |
| 19:48.20 | atoponce | and the #1 reason i left that channel |
| 19:48.50 | herlo | yeah, well I sit in there mostly and just make snide comments to mheath, sargun and a few others (sjansen) |
| 19:52.55 | Zelut | that's why everyone left #utah. |
| 19:53.25 | herlo | Zelut: there's this guy in there right now. His name is D. E. Evans. Check out his website http://www.deevans.net/ |
| 19:54.03 | Zelut | herlo: is this our new guy? |
| 19:54.11 | herlo | new guy? |
| 19:54.19 | herlo | could be.. dunno |
| 19:54.58 | Zelut | herlo: we hired someone Friday, started shadowing gooz monday. |
| 19:55.01 | herlo | yeah |
| 19:55.06 | herlo | His name fits |
| 19:55.14 | Zelut | herlo: David something.. want to say Evans, but maybe I'm just making it fit. |
| 19:55.16 | herlo | It took me a second to realize what you were asking |
| 20:02.08 | {phoenyx} | people sure like to bait mheath |
| 20:03.20 | {phoenyx} | eh |
| 20:16.05 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah RoundyT1_ (n=alex@roundyt1-xmission.xmission.com) |
| 20:16.20 | RoundyT1_ | is there any specific presentations at the meeting this weekend |
| 20:16.32 | RoundyT1_ | it just says "linux fundamentals" meaning? |
| 20:17.49 | Zelut | we're covering the basics, from permissions to mounting, etc.. |
| 20:19.21 | RoundyT1_ | dang that would be a nice meeting |
| 20:19.34 | RoundyT1_ | my lan parties always fall on the same dates... |
| 20:23.11 | RoundyT1_ | this lan party is over the weekend...everyone is invited. :-D its in American Fork |
| 20:23.19 | undertakingyou | I'm moving into my new house that day |
| 20:23.34 | Zelut | undertakingyou: I'm moving into my new house the day before. no excuses :) |
| 20:23.54 | undertakingyou | I am trying to think of how I can come without my wife divorcing me :) |
| 20:25.20 | Zelut | bring her? :) |
| 20:26.22 | undertakingyou | Zelut: thats a thought, she gets uncomfortable around people she doesn't know, and so she'll want to unpack. |
| 20:27.20 | Zelut | I doubt I can convince you, I just like to give people a hard time about the meetings |
| 20:28.09 | undertakingyou | I am convinced, its just her :) |
| 20:33.59 | atoponce | !g define:ennui |
| 20:34.01 | UtahBot | boredom: the feeling of being bored by something tedious @ http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=ennui ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=all&q=define:ennui ) |
| 20:37.02 | atoponce | !g define:writhing |
| 20:37.05 | UtahBot | squirming: having a twisting or snake-like or wormlike motion; "squirming boys"; "wiggly worms"; "writhing snakes" @ http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=writhing ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=all&q=define:writhing ) |
| 20:38.29 | atoponce | !g define:propriety |
| 20:38.31 | UtahBot | Did you mean: define:proprietary ? | correct or appropriate behavior @ http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=propriety ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=all&q=define:propriety ) |
| 20:38.50 | Heartsbane | Ah God's contradictory chemical factory |
| 20:39.04 | {phoenyx} | wife? |
| 20:39.13 | {phoenyx} | women in general? |
| 20:39.20 | Heartsbane | in general |
| 20:43.08 | {phoenyx} | ~maquis Heartsbane |
| 20:43.09 | jbot | ACTION breaks Heartsbane just by looking in Heartsbane's direction |
| 20:43.09 | {phoenyx} | /me figured he'd take care of it for here, 'cause she doesn't seem to be around |
| 20:43.35 | {phoenyx} | s/here/her |
| 20:46.40 | RoundyT1_ | undertakingyou, my fiance is the same, doesn't like people she doesn't know. |
| 20:47.16 | {phoenyx} | how would you ever get to know anyone new? |
| 20:47.26 | undertakingyou | RoundyT1_: do you find it as tough to take her places as I do my wife? |
| 20:48.29 | RoundyT1_ | undertakingyou, sometimes, well like im in a utahscions group and she didn't want to go so bad she started to cry, i was liike just come and see please...and she came with and actually enjoyed staying |
| 20:50.15 | undertakingyou | RoundyT1_, usually I can get her to go but she gets bored and makes me leave early because she won't talk to anyone. |
| 20:51.01 | RoundyT1_ | that too. |
| 20:51.03 | RoundyT1_ | haha |
| 20:51.43 | undertakingyou | {phoenyx}: the thing is that you can't meet anyone, and I try to get her out all the time. Kind of a sore spot. |
| 20:52.32 | {phoenyx} | what about inviting people over? perhaps in a familiar environment... |
| 20:54.02 | undertakingyou | That really is the only way that it happens. Should we change the meeting venue to my house? |
| 20:56.49 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah kissotdragon (n=kissotdr@66.117.209.185) |
| 21:09.27 | {phoenyx} | ~nudge scottymuse |
| 21:09.28 | jbot | ACTION elbows scottymuse until he gets scottymuse's attention |
| 21:11.41 | Zelut | anyone know where I can geet a cheap DSL modem? |
| 21:13.44 | herlo | Zelut: back door at comcast? |
| 21:13.59 | Zelut | herlo: wouldn't that be a cable modem? |
| 21:14.45 | sontek | herlo: ping |
| 21:14.51 | herlo | sontek: pong |
| 21:15.00 | sontek | herlo: I haven't gotten any ims from you today :O |
| 21:15.01 | herlo | sontek: about time. I've been harrassing you all day |
| 21:15.22 | herlo | :) |
| 21:15.22 | sontek | herlo: not according to IRC or Gtalk you haven't :p |
| 21:15.34 | herlo | sontek: check your GTALK, it must not be on |
| 21:15.42 | sontek | I must have a gtalk on at home too |
| 21:17.01 | atoponce | all the more reason to ditch gtalk |
| 21:17.22 | atoponce | and use something that implements the entire xmmp spec |
| 21:17.40 | herlo | atoponce: yeah, but what are you gonna do |
| 21:17.48 | atoponce | herlo: preach about it |
| 21:18.01 | herlo | atoponce: please do |
| 21:18.08 | atoponce | ok. fine. :) |
| 21:18.10 | herlo | atoponce: convince google to implement the rest? |
| 21:18.12 | Zelut | atoponce: what are some clients that implement the entire spec? |
| 21:18.12 | atoponce | where to begin? |
| 21:18.32 | atoponce | Zelut: gajim, psi, spark just to name a few |
| 21:18.45 | herlo | atoponce: please convince them. They have the best sets of tools all around. Nobody has done better yet in an overall area IMO. |
| 21:18.47 | Zelut | I thought spark didn't support jabber |
| 21:18.58 | atoponce | herlo: it's not about the protocol, but the client implementing the protocol |
| 21:19.07 | herlo | atoponce: I don't use gtalk |
| 21:19.09 | atoponce | Zelut: spark is a jabber-only client |
| 21:19.12 | herlo | but apparently sontek does |
| 21:19.47 | atoponce | i don't know if spark connects to the google talk implementation of the jabber protocol or not |
| 21:19.58 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah bytheway (n=ben@166-70-97-252.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:20.06 | herlo | atoponce: but I thought you said that it wasn't the server? |
| 21:20.10 | herlo | atoponce: make up your mind |
| 21:20.50 | atoponce | herlo: google needs to make up there's. i'll explain: |
| 21:20.50 | Zelut | atoponce: do you have a link for spark? I wondered if I tried something else.. |
| 21:20.57 | atoponce | google uses 'google talk' for both their server instance and a proprietary client |
| 21:20.59 | herlo | atoponce: ah, I see. Blame it on google |
| 21:21.00 | herlo | :) |
| 21:21.34 | atoponce | my stance is people can use the google talk server all they want, just choose a decent client |
| 21:21.47 | atoponce | like, psi, gajim or spark |
| 21:22.27 | atoponce | Zelut: http://www.igniterealtime.org/projects/spark/index.jsp |
| 21:22.29 | Zelut | I think this is reason again we need a fully XMMP implemented cli client |
| 21:22.41 | atoponce | centericq comes close |
| 21:22.46 | atoponce | but, still falls short |
| 21:23.15 | undertakingyou | atoponce: by gajim do you mean gaim? |
| 21:23.45 | atoponce | undertakingyou: no. gaim is a horrible client that belongs in hell. i mean gajim- http://www.gajim.org |
| 21:23.57 | Zelut | undertakingyou: don't get him started on gaim |
| 21:24.10 | undertakingyou | atoponce: :) |
| 21:25.00 | herlo | undertakingyou: besides its called pidgin now, and its getting better than atoponce thinks |
| 21:25.08 | atoponce | herlo: they still haven't done a *thing* to the xmpp spec from previous versions |
| 21:25.18 | undertakingyou | I am using Pidgin now |
| 21:25.34 | atoponce | s/to the/to implement the full/ |
| 21:25.40 | herlo | atoponce: that's possibly true, but I was actually referring to their new library libpurple |
| 21:25.46 | atoponce | meh |
| 21:25.48 | atoponce | a rename |
| 21:25.49 | atoponce | big deal |
| 21:26.13 | herlo | atoponce: they did more than that. Purple is the best color in the world, its a mixture of my two favorite colors, red and blue |
| 21:26.22 | herlo | plus |
| 21:26.26 | atoponce | herlo: something we should know? |
| 21:26.26 | herlo | they have a new icon |
| 21:26.33 | herlo | atoponce: I like purple? |
| 21:26.38 | atoponce | uh huh |
| 21:26.38 | Zelut | ~lart herlo |
| 21:26.38 | jbot | stuffs herlo into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it |
| 21:26.53 | atoponce | herlo: have a rainbow sticker on your car? |
| 21:26.55 | herlo | atoponce: but not the feminine purple, the deep beautiful purple |
| 21:27.10 | atoponce | :) |
| 21:27.18 | herlo | atoponce: I am comfortable enough with my feminine side to admit I like it. Are you? |
| 21:27.22 | atoponce | notice the terminology- 'beautiful' |
| 21:27.26 | atoponce | heh |
| 21:27.28 | Zelut | atoponce: what kind of things are we missing out on not using the full specs? |
| 21:27.39 | Zelut | atoponce: or, what does google strip out I should ask. |
| 21:27.49 | atoponce | Zelut: a few key things that separates jabber from the rest |
| 21:27.56 | atoponce | well, let's go server-side, first |
| 21:28.42 | atoponce | xmpp is plain text, not binary. however, by default, it uses tls for client to server encryption |
| 21:28.54 | atoponce | older implementations used ssl |
| 21:29.18 | atoponce | there are currently in the works, on a protocol level, client to client encryption, which will be amazing |
| 21:29.25 | herlo | atoponce: can't xmpp be wrapped in kerberos too? |
| 21:29.31 | herlo | or something liek that? |
| 21:29.42 | atoponce | herlo: i'm not familiar with that, so i can't comment |
| 21:30.08 | atoponce | the xmpp spec also allows connections using transports to the other legacy protocols |
| 21:30.16 | atoponce | aim/icq, msn, yahoo, etc |
| 21:30.29 | herlo | atoponce: is that how bitlbee works then? |
| 21:31.16 | atoponce | further, jabber/xmpp is decentralized, meaning, you don't have to have an account from 'server.com' to use it. it works the same way email does, in that anyone can setup a server and use it to 'talk' with other servers |
| 21:31.28 | Zelut | ...I still can't get any connection out of spark to my gmail jabber account. |
| 21:31.28 | atoponce | herlo: no. bitlbee is a multi-protocol client |
| 21:31.46 | atoponce | now, the perversions that google has done to xmpp: |
| 21:31.54 | herlo | atoponce: right, but I was wondering if it used the gateway from xmpp, but now I see my question is invalid |
| 21:32.13 | herlo | :) |
| 21:32.31 | atoponce | 1) adding 'buddies' is done through their invite system. you cannot add, at least reliably, gmail users to your roster unless you are a gmail user yourself |
| 21:32.55 | atoponce | 2) transports are not supported |
| 21:33.02 | herlo | atoponce: that actually seems like a reasonable requriment (#1) |
| 21:33.02 | atoponce | or, i should say, removed |
| 21:33.30 | herlo | to me, its gotta be like that out of the gate (#1) or it will get abused by bots and spam |
| 21:33.33 | atoponce | herlo: actually, it doesn't. do i have to get an invite from you, so i can add you to my email address book, before i can email you? |
| 21:33.51 | atoponce | herlo: no other server implements that perversion |
| 21:33.55 | atoponce | *only* google |
| 21:34.23 | herlo | aim does |
| 21:34.26 | atoponce | jabber.org, the largest server by far, does not have that requirement, and there are no requests from spam bots |
| 21:34.35 | atoponce | that i've ever had, anyway |
| 21:34.44 | herlo | so does MSN and icq too |
| 21:34.56 | atoponce | aim doesn't implement xmpp. nor do msn or icq. |
| 21:35.00 | atoponce | apple to oranges |
| 21:35.27 | herlo | atoponce: how? |
| 21:35.35 | atoponce | there are other problems with google implementation, but they're trivial |
| 21:35.52 | herlo | are you referring to the fact that xmpp is the only protocol you were intending to discuss or something? |
| 21:36.05 | atoponce | herlo: buddy requests should happen from client to client. i shouldn't have to be a member of a certain server to be able to make the request |
| 21:36.09 | herlo | I thought you were referring to any chat protocol... |
| 21:36.14 | atoponce | no. xmpp |
| 21:36.34 | findlay | what about girl protocol? Does anybody know that one? |
| 21:36.39 | atoponce | gmail has altered xmpp to fit their needs, and i find them perverse |
| 21:36.42 | herlo | atoponce: I see, but why should the server just *accept* anyone? I can't see how that's safe |
| 21:36.53 | Zelut | well dang, I got Spark to work with my GL account but not gmail. |
| 21:36.54 | herlo | findlay: no nerd does |
| 21:37.15 | atoponce | herlo: you register an account with an xmpp provider, then add buddies that you know have accountse |
| 21:37.33 | atoponce | look at it this way, as a way to protect against spam: |
| 21:38.39 | atoponce | in order to connect to the jabber server, you first need an account with the provider. we are all familiar with this |
| 21:39.07 | atoponce | at that point, all of the bot checks *should* have passed. i'm not saying they're bullet proof, but should be reliable |
| 21:39.18 | atoponce | so, if you have an account, chances are, you are human. now: |
| 21:39.35 | atoponce | now, you want to add a buddy to your account (we're talking xmpp here) |
| 21:40.18 | atoponce | you registered at gmail, but want to add a buddy who has an account at jabber.org. you make the request, and the buddy at jabber.org decides on whether or not to accept you |
| 21:40.25 | atoponce | now, tell me two things: |
| 21:40.56 | atoponce | 1) how is a bot to know who has an account on what server to make the request, if in fact, they have an account with the provider? |
| 21:41.40 | atoponce | 2) be honest, but have you *ever* seen bots on any other protocol than aim/icq? |
| 21:42.03 | Zelut | I'm pretty sure I've been spammed on MSN |
| 21:42.29 | atoponce | now, to the client, and the problems they've introduced in their Google Talk client |
| 21:43.10 | atoponce | first, resource and priority. google talk client does not allow you to change the resource or the priority |
| 21:43.15 | atoponce | this is a problem |
| 21:44.00 | atoponce | the resource is a random hash that gmail creates for your connection using that client, to ensure that if you connect more than once, you won't be denied a connection |
| 21:44.18 | Zelut | undertakingyou: see what I mean about getting him started :) |
| 21:44.23 | atoponce | pidgin does something similar, i belive (could be wrong) |
| 21:44.41 | undertakingyou | I'm really sorry Zelut :) |
| 21:44.53 | Zelut | atoponce: keep going, just making a wise remark |
| 21:45.18 | atoponce | the problem with the random hash, is you cannot identify your location. you may not want to, but if you do, like in local lan installs, you can't |
| 21:45.22 | atoponce | Zelut: no worries |
| 21:45.44 | atoponce | undertakingyou: you'll see i'm very passionate and opinionated about xmpp and overall im security |
| 21:46.06 | undertakingyou | I appreciate that, there is no problem :) |
| 21:46.17 | atoponce | also, google talk client does not allow you to change your priority |
| 21:47.00 | atoponce | priority in xmpp allows you to decide where the messages are sent. the higher the priority number, the more likely the message will go to |
| 21:47.12 | atoponce | google talk client sets it to 24, no matter how many times you login |
| 21:47.28 | atoponce | so, if you're logged in twice, and someone sends you a message, where does it go? |
| 21:47.42 | atoponce | in the case of sontek, it looks like it went to his home login |
| 21:48.03 | atoponce | if he could change the priority, say to 25, at work, then for sure the message would've gotten to him |
| 21:48.09 | atoponce | because 25 > 24 |
| 21:48.25 | atoponce | the lowest you can set your priority is 0, and the highest is 127 |
| 21:48.26 | atoponce | iirc |
| 21:49.28 | atoponce | if you look at my logins, you will see i'm logged in twice |
| 21:50.14 | atoponce | resource 'centericq', which is set to a priority to 5, and resource 'Work', which is set to 15 |
| 21:50.32 | atoponce | so, any message sent ot me will always go to the highest priority, in this case, 'Work' |
| 21:50.42 | atoponce | i can change that number at will |
| 21:50.49 | atoponce | in gajim and centericq |
| 21:51.06 | atoponce | (which is another reason pidgin/gaim is perverse) |
| 21:51.13 | atoponce | no change-y |
| 21:52.01 | atoponce | so, anyway, there you have it: why you should not use google for your provider or your client |
| 21:53.28 | undertakingyou | I understand about the priority thing. I have had that problem, If I am checking my email and have a chat client open. |
| 21:55.03 | atoponce | it sux. libgaim/libpurple implementations (gaim/pidgin, bitlbee, audium, etc) all set it to 0, regardless |
| 21:57.16 | atoponce | i understand that people have accounts on legacy systems, and want an all-in-one client to support them. my solution? register a jabber account with a provider that supports transports, and pick a client that supports it too, and login that way |
| 21:57.44 | atoponce | there is no reason to use gaim/pidgin imho |
| 21:58.27 | {phoenyx} | what if I have friends who use YIM/AIM/MSN etc.? |
| 21:58.34 | {phoenyx} | what client would you recommend? |
| 21:58.59 | atoponce | {phoenyx}: a client that supports jabber transports |
| 21:59.19 | Zelut | {phoenyx}: I told all of my friends that used those that I'd be switching, and they knew where they could email me |
| 22:00.09 | atoponce | transports allow you to still connect to yim/aim/msn etc, completely transparently through your xmpp provider |
| 22:00.33 | atoponce | your friends/family wouldn't know any different |
| 22:01.13 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah kissotdragon (n=kissotdr@66.117.209.185) |
| 22:13.11 | RoundyT1_ | what's a good game for ubuntu? |
| 22:13.24 | RoundyT1_ | i missed the gaming meeting... |
| 22:13.31 | synic | bzflag |
| 22:16.25 | {phoenyx} | multiplayer or single player? |
| 22:16.42 | {phoenyx} | what type of games do you like? |
| 22:21.09 | Zelut | did you guys know you can start editing a file in vim at line X using "vim file +line" ? |
| 22:21.37 | {phoenyx} | that's handy |
| 22:21.59 | Zelut | just found that |
| 22:29.24 | RoundyT1_ | sorry. multi online... |
| 22:29.52 | RoundyT1_ | just found world of padman, gonna take a look at that one |
| 22:33.43 | {phoenyx} | Savage, Enemy Territory, tetrinet |
| 22:39.59 | Zelut | bbiab guys |
| 23:06.37 | {phoenyx} | for all of you bloggers: how often does the googlebot come around? |
| 23:08.15 | {phoenyx} | (googlebot already indexed the post I made this morning) |
| 23:09.19 | atoponce | {phoenyx}: more than once per day |
| 23:12.27 | {phoenyx} | wow |
| 23:20.33 | herlo | Zelut: the link to the map in your last post (on UTOSP) doesn't work... |
| 23:29.58 | herlo | Zelut: ping |
| 23:35.20 | atoponce | would you look at that? :D |
| 23:37.22 | Zelut | I think I automated the irssi notification at login. |
| 23:37.24 | Zelut | ~w00t |
| 23:37.24 | jbot | w00t!!! |
| 23:37.26 | atoponce | gmail, as a jabber service, is down. not that another service can't go down- i just find it ironic. :) |
| 23:37.47 | atoponce | Zelut: please inligten |
| 23:37.52 | atoponce | s/in/en/ |
| 23:38.49 | Zelut | atoponce: I just wrote a startup.sh that does: sleep 15; ssh -fN SOCKS; sleep 15; /bin/bash ~/./irssi_notify.sh & |
| 23:39.29 | Zelut | atoponce: creates my proxy tunnel then launches the notifier.. I then manually open the connection for irssi |
| 23:42.40 | Zelut | brb, testing one more thing |
| 23:45.10 | Zelut | ~w00t |
| 23:45.11 | jbot | w00t!!! |
| 23:45.12 | Zelut | it works |
| 23:46.09 | Zelut | on startup my machine creates the ssh -D tunnel, launches the irssi notifier, runs my tunnel-status script and then opens a new terminal and connects to my irssi server. |
| 23:46.30 | Zelut | only thing I have to do in the whole mess is 'screen -dr' on the remote side. |
| 23:49.14 | herlo | Zelut: how did you do htat? |
| 23:49.27 | herlo | Zelut: did you use the session? |
| 23:49.34 | Zelut | herlo: what session |
| 23:49.39 | herlo | gnome |
| 23:49.55 | Zelut | herlo: gnome sessions? yeah, I have it start '/bin/bash ~/./startup.sh' |
| 23:50.10 | herlo | why did you put that . in there? |
| 23:50.23 | herlo | wouldn't ~/startup.sh work? |
| 23:50.50 | *** join/#ubuntu-utah Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:51.12 | Zelut | I don't remember if I tried that, but that path does work. |
| 23:51.26 | Zelut | I seem to remember it not working, but I could be thinking of something else.. |
| 23:52.27 | Zelut | brb - one more test |
| 23:52.41 | herlo | nw |
| 23:54.36 | Zelut | if I call a function in bash can I append with an & like in normal command bash syntax? |
| 23:55.48 | herlo | yup |
| 23:55.54 | herlo | atoponce: ping |
| 23:56.38 | Zelut | sweet. Looks like my startup is set. |
| 23:56.57 | Zelut | gnome-terminal -e 'command' is convinient, by the way :) |