00:00.46 | Monet_2 | It's a little difficult to imagine how exotic alien life might be when Earth life can be -really- exotic |
00:03.17 | Monet_2 | Maybe alien life will be recogniseable on the basis that 1) Nature isn't known for being hipster and going one-of-a-kind creature, if a trait works it works |
00:05.14 | OluapPlayer | Earth life can be weird. Like this thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullimonstrum |
00:08.23 | Monet_2 | There's nothing stopping alien life looking like something (at least on a fundamental level) we've never seen before true. But there's also nothing stopping something alien from evolving traits we've seen on Earth. |
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00:23.50 | *** topic/#sporewiki is SporeWiki! http://spore.wikia.com || Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23sporewiki/ || Collaborative Universes: Sci-Fi http://tinyurl.com/3ddvp7q Fantasy http://tinyurl.com/p9qau7l || Titanpad: https://titanpad.com/ || Offtopic chat: #sporewiki-offtopic |
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00:41.19 | Wormy_ | Eyes evolved independently many times |
00:43.39 | Wormy_ | But some things evolved very few times, or only once |
00:45.22 | Wormy_ | So evolving organisms in an environment can be said to be in a fitness landscape, some regions will be closer than others and some peaks could be very far away and dependent on the history of the evolving organisms as well |
00:46.09 | Wormy_ | If gas filled balloons oocuppied the skies before winged creatures, winged creatures might never have propagated much. |
00:48.53 | Wormy_ | Even our morphology has ancient dogmas, the fact we have a breathing tube next where we swallow, that we have five digits on our hands, hark back to the tetrapods that survived on land |
00:50.17 | Wormy_ | Some peaks of the fitness landscape might never be reached on our planet, because of their distance and also because of environmental limitations |
00:51.41 | Wormy_ | -because- organisms will face the same universal problems on Earth-like terrestrial planets as they do here, expect similar diversity of life, with a few exceptions |
00:52.20 | Wormy_ | But if life can emerge on extreme planets, or even more exotic environs like neutron stars, expect a much wider divergence |
00:52.26 | Wormy_ | This is how I treat things |
00:55.35 | Wormy_ | Of course, complex life might also be comparatively rare, and in fact it is on Earth compared to the diversity of the simplest bacteria. But on Earth it took billions of years to even reach multi-cellularity |
01:00.35 | Wormy_ | Perhaps the majority of life is very simple to describe from our context. |
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04:59.47 | Methanogen | Hello |
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05:02.25 | Methanogen_ | Hello again, gah internet stuff up |
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07:01.23 | Methanogen | Hello |
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07:32.01 | Methanogen | Hello |
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08:13.15 | Methanogen | Hello |
08:16.50 | Hachiman | Hi |
08:17.00 | Methanogen | Ah hi there Hachi |
08:17.04 | Methanogen | Going well? |
08:18.44 | Hachiman | Yeah, it's going fine |
08:19.02 | Methanogen | That's good, I'm going fine as well |
08:19.11 | Hachiman | Any more developments with your fiction? |
08:19.27 | Methanogen | Still avoiding expanding upon my history because it's going to be a massive task I bet |
08:19.44 | Methanogen | Well I have a few random not-really-developed characters now I suppose |
08:19.53 | Hachiman | Ah, I suppose it can be if you want like a super detailed amount of major events to have occurred in the past |
08:20.05 | Methanogen | And fancy borders that I totally didn't steal from a random page and look up hexadecimal colour codes to change the colour |
08:20.32 | Methanogen | Yeah, right now my history is rather vague |
08:20.59 | Methanogen | I'm not sure if I should try to be realoy detailed or just leave it rather vague for now |
08:21.51 | Hachiman | Hm |
08:22.33 | Methanogen | Yes? |
08:22.34 | Hachiman | Well, whatever works for you, I suppose; I personally don't mind either, just so long as, if it's vague, we are given some information about the most major and prominent events and lore |
08:23.03 | Hachiman | You could also use the excuse that your fiction has not fully documented or retained memory of its history so you don't have to go through all of it kek |
08:23.09 | Methanogen | True |
08:23.30 | Methanogen | I've got to at least explain where the Eriaroons got their religion from and how they developed at least some stuff |
08:23.43 | Methanogen | And how the Yorchi ever became a united society after fighting for ages etc |
08:24.09 | Hachiman | Well, you know the Eriaroon faith kinda reminds me of... I think Gnosticism? |
08:24.44 | Methanogen | How so? |
08:25.57 | Hachiman | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism#Demiurge Specifically this part of Gnostic lore and whatnot |
08:26.13 | Methanogen | I'll take a look |
08:26.42 | Methanogen | I sort of vaguely see what that kinda is |
08:27.00 | Hachiman | Basically, it teaches that the creator of the physical world is evil and uses material ties to the physical world to keep mortals from enlightenment |
08:27.07 | Hachiman | Or something to that effect, I dunno |
08:27.21 | Methanogen | Hmm I see |
08:27.49 | Hachiman | Eriaroons remind me of it because they are driven by the goal of ascending beyond the barriers of the physical universe and some such |
08:27.54 | Methanogen | True |
08:28.20 | Methanogen | Their goal for that is twofold really: demonstrate worthiness and to escape the inevitable destruction of the universe |
08:29.42 | Hachiman | Right, makes sense |
08:31.08 | Methanogen | Basically they believe that they were cast into an afterlife for unworthy souls, using the unfairness of reality and possibly later on the existence of demons etc as their evidence and it's basically been ingrained into their society at this stage |
08:32.54 | Hachiman | Yeah, that makes sense; so, they believe that their ancestors or past selves committed some great, unforgivable sin in the past which condemned the entirety of their kind to this existence? |
08:33.27 | Methanogen | Pretty much |
08:33.41 | Methanogen | And when they discover intelligent aliens they'll assume they are either similar unfortunate beings or demonic entities |
08:36.23 | Hachiman | Could be that one faction of Eriaroon have taken to seeing the Yorchi as 'demons' based on research from afar and whatnot, maybe investigating their fringe worlds beyond their knowledge, and could undertake a military campaign of holiness of sorts in order to perhaps hasten the process of their ascension |
08:36.57 | Methanogen | It also means that their standard greeting translates to "my condolences" whic I'm sure will make for a great first contact... |
08:37.01 | Methanogen | Well they haven't met each other yet |
08:37.14 | Methanogen | But when they do they'll probably view Yorchi as demons initially |
08:37.39 | Methanogen | They live on a searing inhospitable world after all and have acid for bodies and blood....pretty demonic seeming stuff |
08:38.00 | Hachiman | Indeed, especially to the Eriaroon's own exotic biochemistry |
08:38.32 | Methanogen | Yeah |
08:39.12 | Methanogen | Their biochemistry isn't quite as exotic as Yorchi but it's not exactly humanoid either...their anatomy on the other hand is utterly inhuman and inyorchi |
08:40.16 | Methanogen | In other word, I like making my aliens alien |
08:40.29 | Hachiman | Yeah, which is good, because I like alien aliens hur |
08:40.46 | Methanogen | You do? |
08:41.02 | Hachiman | Yeah; I like the whole range of diversity that can be found in the Fictionverse |
08:41.18 | Hachiman | We have more conventional aliens and we're also getting more alien aliens as time goes on |
08:41.20 | Methanogen | True there's a huge amount of diversity |
08:41.24 | Hachiman | Such as yours |
08:41.28 | Methanogen | True |
08:41.53 | Methanogen | I decided alien aliens were want I wanted to write about because I thought they'd probably be more interesting to work with |
08:41.58 | Methanogen | And I like exotic biochemistry |
08:42.10 | Hachiman | Could be that after initial conflicts arise and are resolved (which I am assuming they will), some 'rogue faction' of Eriaroon could arise condemning the Yorchi and the main Eriaroon government and cultural body for cooperating with unworthy outsiders and holding back the efforts of the faith |
08:42.29 | Hachiman | So you'd have your first real 'villain faction', I suppose |
08:42.42 | Methanogen | Hmmm it's certainly a possibility |
08:43.04 | Methanogen | I'm sure many Yorchi would still want more territory as well..acidic deathly territory but territory nonetheless |
08:43.17 | Methanogen | And access to Eriaroon technological capabilities would also be somewhat enticing to them |
08:43.42 | Methanogen | So it's possible a combination of greed and religion-inspired paranoia could cause conflicts |
08:44.20 | Hachiman | Aye; considering that neither the Eriaroon or Yorchi are stupid warmongers who war for the sake of war, perhaps after a while, they could turn to alternative methods to attain the advantages of one another, like trade |
08:44.30 | Methanogen | True |
08:44.55 | Hachiman | "They're demons, but they're demons who could help defend us from other demons" |
08:45.06 | Methanogen | Yorchi may want equipment to let them not die horribly in water and Eriaroons could use land technology |
08:45.09 | Methanogen | Yeah basically |
08:45.34 | Methanogen | A demon to an Eriaroonn isn't necessarily evil, just unnatural (seeming) |
08:45.47 | Hachiman | Yeah, that makes sense |
08:46.14 | Methanogen | Actual evil unnatural demons, though...they'd probably be rather frightful of those |
08:47.16 | Hachiman | Still, I imagine some Eriaroon fundamentalist groups and sects exist; like with most faiths :p |
08:47.24 | Methanogen | Yorchi are a military-industrial society and Eriaroons are a spiritual-scientific society...neither are idiots that declare war constantly for territory or "heresy" |
08:47.39 | Methanogen | But there do exist groups within them that might be willing to get closer to such a path |
08:47.42 | Methanogen | True of course |
08:48.16 | Methanogen | Many Eriaroons would disagree on what classifies as a demon, what other afterlifes if any there are, etc |
08:48.52 | Methanogen | And of course how to achieve ascension |
08:49.17 | Hachiman | Aye; all of this gets further complicated probably following the discovery that Essence is as an actual thing |
08:49.32 | Methanogen | That's going to cause a massive debate for sure |
08:49.52 | Methanogen | Yorchi would be like: Oh look a new thing to possibly exploit |
08:50.07 | Methanogen | Eriaroons would be like: This changes our fundamental understanding of the universe |
08:50.48 | Hachiman | Aye |
08:50.57 | Methanogen | Of course they'd definitely view it as support for their religious belief basics of demons existing and being in an afterlife etc |
08:51.04 | Methanogen | But exactly how would vary |
08:52.51 | Methanogen | That'd definitely cause a fair few changes and disruptions to their society, perhaps even encouraging certain sects to take certain...drastic measures |
08:53.28 | Hachiman | Aye, I can imagine |
08:53.45 | Hachiman | Although given they are a society of scholars, I imagine some would welcome this new influx of information |
08:54.15 | Methanogen | Yes they would, probably trying to find a way to use it or experiment with it |
08:54.42 | Methanogen | Then of course some people would probably say stuff like "stop messing around with demon essence this will not end well" |
08:55.35 | Methanogen | And things would start escalating more etc |
08:55.43 | Hachiman | "This is demon magic; this stuff betrays our understanding of this world in ways unimaginable"; "This is demon magic and we can use it against its masters" |
08:55.49 | Methanogen | Also, that may mean they view all essence users as demons, at least for a time |
08:56.00 | Methanogen | Yes that sort of thing |
08:56.26 | Methanogen | Some people would probably try to just find a "scientific" explanation for it |
08:56.50 | Hachiman | So you have those who'd seek to understand it; those who fear it and condemn it; those who'd be driven to use it as a tool or weapon against their enemies |
08:56.56 | Methanogen | I've got to go, nice conversation and thanks for the ideas |
08:57.02 | Hachiman | Cool, cya later |
08:57.09 | Hachiman | No probs |
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09:15.30 | Hachiman | Hi |
09:20.20 | ImpyDroid | Ey |
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10:00.35 | Ghelae | Hello. |
10:25.36 | Hachiman | Hi |
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10:36.38 | Thundercraft | I'm having trouble in Civilization stage because my 'Invulnerability' special ability does NOT seem to work... |
10:37.06 | Thundercraft | Doesn't seem to do anything, aside from taking away 2000 of my sporebucks. |
10:37.13 | Thundercraft | anyone else have this issue? |
10:37.45 | Thundercraft | FYI: I do not have any mods installed. So I don't know whether I'm doing something wrong, or if this is some sort of bug. |
10:37.49 | Thundercraft | I'm really confused. |
10:43.10 | Ghelae | I don't remember it very well, but I think it's a small area effect for a small time. |
10:44.10 | Ghelae | So I think the idea is that you put it on a group of vehicles that are damaged and under fire, and they'll last for a while longer than they otherwise would. I don't know if that's how you're using it. |
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10:57.23 | Methanogen | Hello |
10:57.45 | Ghelae | Hello. |
10:58.03 | Methanogen | Hi there Ghelae, how are you? |
10:58.13 | Ghelae | I'm okay; how about you? |
10:58.53 | Methanogen | I'm fairly good |
10:59.20 | Methanogen | Still got to work on my fiction history stuff |
11:02.31 | Methanogen | Which is something of a daunting task |
11:12.13 | Methanogen | Any advice on how to create a history for fictional societies well? |
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11:14.50 | Methanogen | Hello |
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11:16.01 | Wormy_ | hi |
11:16.07 | Methanogen | Hi |
11:18.41 | Thundercraft_ | My race's 'invulnerability' special does not seem to work in Civilization mode. |
11:19.18 | Thundercraft_ | Clicking it takes my 2000 sporebucks, like it should, but it does not seem to do anyting, even after clicking on my vehicle. |
11:19.29 | Thundercraft_ | My vehicle takes damage, like usual... |
11:19.38 | Thundercraft_ | A bug? Or am I doing something wrong? |
11:20.28 | Thundercraft_ | I mean, I know it does not last forever. But I click it right before engaging the enemy. |
11:20.46 | Thundercraft_ | Is there a long delay before it takes effect? |
11:21.22 | Methanogen | I'm not sure why that could be but I always forget to use those consequence abilities |
11:22.12 | Thundercraft_ | I would think that if this is an oversight and it does not work for anyone, it would have been mentioned somewhere. |
11:22.35 | Thundercraft_ | And I've read a lot of walkthroughs and guides - all that I could find. |
11:22.55 | Thundercraft_ | They all seem to suggest that Invulnerability is a good consequence ability. |
11:23.38 | Methanogen | It could be a bug or something then possibly |
11:23.41 | Thundercraft_ | I don't even have any mods installed, so it can't be that. |
11:27.59 | Ghelae | Thundercraft_: I replied earlier, but I guess you disconnected before then, so I'll repeat what I said. |
11:28.03 | Ghelae | I don't remember it very well, but I think it's a small area effect for a small time. |
11:28.05 | Ghelae | So I think the idea is that you put it on a group of vehicles that are damaged and under fire, and they'll last for a while longer than they otherwise would. I don't know if that's how you're using it. |
11:28.35 | Thundercraft_ | Yeah, I did get disconnected. |
11:29.13 | Thundercraft_ | I've tried with a group of vehicles clumped together. And I clicked on the lead vehicle. I even saw the red crosshair around it. |
11:29.20 | Ghelae | Hmm. |
11:29.37 | Thundercraft_ | If it worked at all, it must have only lasted literally 4 or so seconds. |
11:29.45 | Thundercraft_ | Is it that short? |
11:30.17 | Ghelae | The red crosshair suggests something should be happening. My guess would be that you should target the ground near the vehicles, but again, the crosshair might suggest otherwise. |
11:30.33 | Ghelae | It wouldn't surprise me if it were that short-term an effect. |
11:30.51 | Thundercraft_ | If it's that short, then it is pretty much worthless. |
11:31.11 | Thundercraft_ | But then, there are other aspects of the game that has me think: What were the devs thinking? |
11:31.41 | Ghelae | I've never really cared to use it. Maybe when a vehicle is about to die and I think it could do with a few more seconds of damage-dealing. |
11:32.46 | Methanogen | I've alway forgotten to use consequence powers in the Civ stage |
11:36.35 | Methanogen | Gtg |
11:54.57 | Thundercraft_ | I read that, "Using any cheat in the space stage will give you the Joker badge, which will prevent you from getting Achievements..." |
11:55.14 | Thundercraft_ | Is that just using cheats in the Space stage? |
11:55.26 | Thundercraft_ | Or would it do this using them at any stage? |
11:57.54 | Ghelae | For the first part, you can't get any badges outside of the Space Stage, so that's simple enough. |
11:58.38 | Ghelae | But, of course, that's arguably a lot less important than whether using cheats in other stages will prevent Achievements. |
12:00.21 | Ghelae | Given that the list of cheats that give the Joker badge include many that have no effect in Space, it seems to me that the implications is: these cheats will disable achievements, and *then* when you get to Space you'll get the Joker badge automatically. |
12:01.39 | Thundercraft_ | I thought that, as long as we haven't gotten to the Space stage yet, we could use them. |
12:02.51 | Ghelae | The information given is ambiguous, and I don't know the correct interpretation. |
12:02.55 | Thundercraft_ | I wouldn't even be interested in using them, except how that Invulnerabilty ability doesn't seem to work for me. |
12:04.09 | Ghelae | Invulnerability isn't necessary to use. |
12:05.01 | Ghelae | Saying that, I do remember that Civ Stage has an insane leap in difficulty between the Normal and Hard modes, so if you're playing on Hard I can see why you might need all the help you can get. |
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12:14.04 | Wormy_ | hi |
12:16.13 | Ghelae | Hello. |
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12:27.44 | NeonPanda | hai hachiman |
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12:33.11 | NeonPanda | hi imp |
12:33.28 | ImpyDroid | hi |
12:42.41 | ImpyDroid | Liquid_Ink: Flag of Transnistria |
12:43.04 | Liquid_Ink | Tricolour, red on top and bottom, green through middle |
12:43.10 | Liquid_Ink | Also have a hammer and sickle? |
12:43.43 | ImpyDroid | Yeah, it is the same as the flag of Soviet Moldova |
12:43.53 | ImpyDroid | You know about Transnistria right? |
12:44.56 | Liquid_Ink | Unrecognised breakaway state of Moldova? |
12:46.19 | ImpyDroid | Yeah |
12:46.29 | ImpyDroid | Anyway look at the link |
12:46.55 | Liquid_Ink | What link? |
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13:58.22 | dino82_ | hi |
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14:31.03 | Thundercraft | Q: Is it always the case that starting straight into Civilization mode gives up the previous color bonuses once you get to Space age? |
14:31.38 | Thundercraft | Or can we still get those bonuses by selecting one of our own races that we've already played up to the Civilization stage? |
14:39.07 | Tek0516 | No. Starting in Civilization gives you only the card for that stage. But the effects are equivalent to having taken those cards for all previous stages. |
14:40.36 | Thundercraft | Not sure that I understand what you mean by "the effects are equivalent..." |
14:41.08 | Thundercraft | All I care about are the EXTRA color bonuses in the Space age. |
14:41.30 | Tek0516 | The philosophy you get starting in Civilization is the same as if you had played a full game and done those colours. |
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14:43.16 | Jepardi | Hi |
14:43.16 | Thundercraft | So, we'd always get stuck with the Wanderer archtype, even if we chose a race that we had already played up from cell to civ? |
14:45.39 | Wormy_ | Wait, you mean you got wanderer from playing Cell to Space or chose a creature in the space stage that was played from cell to space in a different game? |
14:46.04 | Thundercraft | I'm talking about the latter... |
14:46.16 | Thundercraft | But I don't know the answer, which is why I'm asking. |
14:46.17 | Wormy_ | Yeah, that won't work |
14:46.58 | Wormy_ | I think archetype determining stuff is related to some other thread like the timeline |
14:47.22 | Thundercraft | But starting out like that means there is no timeline... |
14:47.40 | Wormy_ | So playing a creature that was previously evolved in another game will not carry over the timeline from another game. |
14:48.27 | Tek0516 | Starting in Civilization will get you the one card for that stage and that's it. |
14:49.17 | Thundercraft | If that's the case, then why am I seeing the cards for the Cell and Creature stage (in the History window) after doing what I described? |
14:49.28 | Thundercraft | Granted, the Tribe stage's card is missing... |
14:51.10 | Thundercraft | It shows "Carnivor" for cell and "Social" for creature, just like when I played the race direct from cell. |
14:51.20 | Thundercraft | Just, nothing for tribal. |
14:53.00 | Thundercraft | And I really wish I knew whether using a cheat before reaching Space age would give the Joker card the same way it would if used after reaching Space. |
14:53.52 | Wormy_ | Its been years since I've played Spore, actually yes I think some cards are given to creatures, can't remember based more on the weighting of their parts or their history in the game |
14:54.03 | Wormy_ | *whether it's based |
14:54.38 | Wormy_ | What you might be seeing is that former case |
14:55.07 | Wormy_ | It is unusual that you are getting wanderer if you played through Civilisation stage |
14:55.42 | Wormy_ | Unless this is wrong, that shouldn't be http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Philosophy#Path_To_Each_Archetype |
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14:58.44 | Wormy_ | Could be a glitch. Might be worth sifting through the extensive pages of glitches and find if it is a known one. |
14:58.48 | Thundercraft | Ah ha! My problem was that I chose a race that I had only played up to Tribal. I had started Tribal, but not saved it as a Civ. |
14:58.58 | Thundercraft | That's why I was missing the Tribal card! |
14:59.37 | Thundercraft | I bet that if I try again with a race I've already started the Civ stage withk, I won't get Wanderer and I'll have all the BONUS archtypes. |
15:00.51 | Thundercraft | Man, the RNG gods really threw the dice at my attempt at civ. |
15:01.46 | Thundercraft | I started as Religous and was aiming for an Economic win. But all the major powers except one hated my empire. |
15:02.25 | Thundercraft | There were a few minor powers that liked my empire. But they were quickly taken over, either by my one ally or by my enemies. |
15:04.55 | Wormy_ | Hm, still doesn't seem right to me, as long as you get *a* card in a previous stage you shouldn't get wanderer |
15:16.24 | Imperios | DrodoEmpire: Just curious. What kind of literature do you usually study in Canadan schools? |
15:16.26 | Imperios | Canadian even |
15:17.00 | Imperios | Is it mostly British literature and some local authors, or do you study world literature more? |
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15:52.09 | Wormy_ | I wouldn't be surprised if Canadians identify very little with British culture anymore, other than a few things like fish and chips and the Queen being printed on their dollars. |
15:53.12 | Wormy_ | It was different in the early 20th century, I hear many Canadians felt some patriotism making mucicians for the British war effort in WW2 |
15:53.15 | Tek0516 | Imperios: It's mostly Canadian authors, famous English language literature, and Shakespeare. |
15:53.20 | Wormy_ | *municians |
15:53.29 | Imperios | Huh |
15:53.53 | Hachiman | Apologies for my absence, family wanted me away from the PC |
15:53.58 | Hachiman | Wormy_: Just finished Proxima |
15:54.01 | Imperios | The Ukrainian ministry of education has recently removed Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky from their school literature list, replacing them with American authors |
15:54.05 | Wormy_ | Question is whether they use English literature more than any other English speaking nation |
15:54.17 | Hachiman | What the fuck was that last quarter |
15:54.31 | Imperios | And British ones I think |
15:54.39 | Wormy_ | Hachiman: Surprised you finished it so quickly, and yes it was a wild ride |
15:55.03 | Hachiman | Also, I'm kinda confused how Yuri can be both Yuri the Per Arduan settler and Robert Braemann a.k.a. Earthshine |
15:55.08 | Wormy_ | I really loved the part where they were crossing environmental zones with different alien ecosystems on Proxima |
15:55.15 | Hachiman | Aye |
15:55.39 | Imperios | Though I suppose the better Anglosphere comparison for Ukraine in the context of the Russian world would be Ireland |
15:55.47 | Imperios | I should ask Cyr next time |
15:55.49 | Wormy_ | Yuri is both> I don't remember that |
15:55.56 | Hachiman | yES |
15:55.58 | Hachiman | Yes |
15:56.13 | Wormy_ | Huh, missed that part |
15:56.21 | Wormy_ | Would you read Ultima? |
15:56.22 | Hachiman | It wasn't written very well, that's why |
15:56.29 | Wormy_ | That's even more insane |
15:56.40 | Imperios | One Ukrainian president even explicitly compared his people with the Irish |
15:56.48 | Hachiman | Yuri said that the last thing he said to his daughter, Beth, before they forever parted ways was his true name; Earthshine revealed to Beth later on the escape vessel that his name was Robert Braemann as proof that he was once human, with Beth reacting in shock |
15:57.14 | Hachiman | 'shocked to the core', in fact |
15:57.20 | Wormy_ | I knew that Earthshine was once human, but I thought he was a relative of Yuri |
15:58.01 | Hachiman | He mentioned that he came from Northern England so I considered the possibility that something was up |
15:58.22 | Imperios | Wait |
15:58.24 | Imperios | Yuri |
15:58.26 | Imperios | England |
15:58.29 | Imperios | That sounds weird |
15:58.30 | Hachiman | Yuri's not his actual name |
15:58.39 | Hachiman | It's an alias he takes; a 'prison name', so to speak |
15:59.16 | Hachiman | As for whether I would read Ultima, hm |
15:59.17 | Wormy_ | Because the world is essentialy split between a pan European-American federation and China |
15:59.41 | Hachiman | I think I might; granted, I didn't find Proxima absolutely flawless and I feel it really did slog in parts |
16:00.00 | Hachiman | And Baxter wrote in some old "humans are shit" tropes that made me feel tired or bothered to read |
16:00.07 | Hachiman | Like the cannibal rapists led by Kleine |
16:00.45 | Wormy_ | Some of his books are optimistic for mankind, and others pessimistic, some are both |
16:01.13 | Hachiman | All the political stuff involving Penny and the UN / Chinese politics bored me shitless up until the point where the Chinese sent stuff at Earth and Mercury |
16:01.23 | Wormy_ | Ultima is less of a slog and varies more, but it is hard to find the central theme of the series until the end |
16:01.38 | Hachiman | Also, what the fuck is sleeping underneath the dark side of Proxima |
16:01.58 | Wormy_ | Revealed in the next, unless you want me to tell |
16:02.04 | Hachiman | Nnngh please do |
16:02.15 | Hachiman | It might be a while before I can pick up Ultima because, well, France |
16:02.33 | Wormy_ | There's this alien intelligence composed of communities of bacteria, called the Dreamers |
16:03.25 | Wormy_ | The Dreamers discovered that the multiverse will reach a tenporal wall from which all universes will die 3 billion years from now (actually a real hypothesis) |
16:04.04 | Hachiman | Actually I think I bought Ultima with Proxima; I just haven't found it yet |
16:04.14 | Hachiman | Right |
16:04.29 | Hachiman | I suppose that's what the 'Dream of the End Time' refers to |
16:04.31 | Wormy_ | So they construct hatches that civilisations come across and use to propagate across the universe, unfortunate accidents reset the timeline, and so it creates a orthogonal time as I understand it |
16:05.10 | Wormy_ | Now each reset makes the new civilisation more primnitive, i.e. space Romans and eventually even more primitive civilisations learn to use the hatches |
16:05.37 | Wormy_ | It is speculated that one days the rodent like ancestors of humans will learn to spread hatches |
16:05.50 | Hachiman | I'm guessing that something like this happened with the builders |
16:06.03 | Wormy_ | Ooh clever idea, I never thought of that |
16:06.31 | Wormy_ | The basis is that each iteration is less careful and more gun-ho |
16:07.04 | Wormy_ | Ultima goes beyond the Space Romans to consider other civilisations |
16:07.20 | Hachiman | I remember that it was said that the development between the evolution of primordial life on Earth and Proxima were linked somehow; that they developed around identical, very specific times, but I never got what this was supposed to mean |
16:07.36 | Wormy_ | Also something that is weird is that inconsistencies and fragments of each timeline can be found in other timelines |
16:08.04 | Wormy_ | I think it was suggesting something like panspermia |
16:08.26 | Hachiman | I just got the impression that primordial life somehow traversed through a Hatch |
16:08.39 | Wormy_ | It may well be so |
16:09.04 | Wormy_ | It makes me think Stephen Baxter had been watching Lost |
16:09.19 | Wormy_ | Which involved hatchjes and powerful glowey things |
16:10.08 | Wormy_ | A good saving grace of Ultima is that Baxter thinks carefully about how space Romans might realistically look like, and details the alternative histories that develop |
16:11.06 | Wormy_ | They are Romans with anachronistic technology and understanding of nature, but enhanced using the hatches |
16:11.11 | Hachiman | Right |
16:11.29 | Hachiman | I still don't believe the idea that Romans could build spaceships, even with kernel technology and the like |
16:11.47 | Hachiman | I mean, the ideas behind spaceship constructing are far beyond the understanding of engineering for the Romans, right? |
16:11.49 | Wormy_ | He makes it very believable |
16:11.59 | Wormy_ | Using only knowledge the Romans had |
16:12.16 | Hachiman | Also, do we get to see more of Beth and Earthshine and whatnot in Ultima? |
16:12.43 | Wormy_ | I can't remember specific details but the Romans did it with pure trial and error without much care for loss of human life, and that's also selected for by the Dreamers |
16:12.49 | Wormy_ | Yes |
16:13.39 | Wormy_ | nd much more of Stef |
16:14.01 | Wormy_ | The one thing that really bothers me is that I never understood Angelia's purpose |
16:15.07 | Hachiman | Yeah, it was kinda... eh |
16:15.44 | Hachiman | Like she disappeared partway through the story and only became relevant again near the end; did she suffer a fault or something or did Stef's father send her out with the purpose of basically being some kinda mirror |
16:17.00 | Wormy_ | You might see now why the Ultimaverse and Xeeleeverse are incompatible, hence the hatches might be no more than a cameo |
16:17.15 | Hachiman | Yeah, I can kinda see why now |
16:17.47 | Hachiman | I can imagine the Dreamers shitting themselves should they have ever encountered the Photino Birds |
16:17.48 | Wormy_ | The Xeelee multiverse has no such temporal barrier, although the universe is doomed to baryonic life |
16:17.51 | Hachiman | Or acknowledged them |
16:18.14 | DrodoEmpire | Shit, forgot to change this to away |
16:18.40 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah to answer your question Imp we study a lot of literature, mostly 20th century literature from the English-speaking world |
16:18.57 | DrodoEmpire | In high school its a lot of 20th century classics, usually about ideology or social issues |
16:19.18 | Hachiman | Now I dunno whether I want to write fantasy or sci-fi hur |
16:19.27 | Wormy_ | The Dreamers would outlive most baryonic life, but would not be able to have any influence before the age of planets when the Photino Birds evolved, so any universe they sidetracked into would have Photino Birds |
16:19.34 | DrodoEmpire | Last year, for example we read "Cry, the Beloved Country" and some other book |
16:20.11 | DrodoEmpire | In other grades you read 1984, Fahrenheit 451, etc. |
16:20.16 | Tek0516 | ...I read that as "Cyr" at first and thought you werE talking about Cyrannian. XD |
16:20.22 | Hachiman | So, how powerful are the Dreamers, really? |
16:20.22 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
16:20.41 | Wormy_ | The Xeelee created an casual timeloop that created new timelines (without reseting old ones) and each time would wage war on the Photino Birds again. One universe the Xeelee may win, who knows. |
16:20.48 | DrodoEmpire | Some Canadian literature though to be quite honest, the selection's small >.< |
16:21.08 | Wormy_ | I would say the Dreamers are universal engineers |
16:21.08 | DrodoEmpire | I find that fantasy or science fiction are discouraged somewhat, or at least were |
16:21.18 | Wormy_ | Just very slow-thinking/acting |
16:21.32 | Hachiman | I know that they somehow built the Hatches and have something to do with the kernels; what is humanity, and other lesser races like the ancient builders, to them? |
16:21.38 | Wormy_ | And they could build hatches for fast-acting lifeforms to interact with |
16:21.41 | DrodoEmpire | Imperios |
16:22.21 | Imperios | DrodoEmpire: Thanks |
16:22.22 | Wormy_ | To them, the lesser races were running around using these toys that helped them sidetrack into new universes |
16:22.23 | Hachiman | brb cooking |
16:22.25 | DrodoEmpire | np |
16:22.25 | Tek0516 | We had one Canadian author my school liked. The fact their most popular book is set in what was now our somewhat obscure town probably helped. :P |
16:22.34 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah hur |
16:22.38 | DrodoEmpire | A lot of short-stories too |
16:22.54 | DrodoEmpire | Holy hell the short stories >.< |
16:23.04 | DrodoEmpire | Those more often than not Canada-oriented, that or Britain |
16:23.14 | DrodoEmpire | *those were |
16:26.44 | Wormy_ | Hachiman: OOH this book now has a cover https://www.amazon.co.uk/Xeelee-Vengeance-Stephen-Baxter-x/dp/1473217172 |
16:27.37 | Wormy_ | They look like Poole's wormhole apertures |
16:37.30 | Wormy_ | Ultimately, I think Baxter's great at building exotic worlds and futures and instilling a sense of wonder, but if you are person who likes characters and societies, you would probably prefer Iain Banks |
16:38.03 | Hachiman | Yeah, most likely |
16:38.13 | Hachiman | And that's a cool cover |
16:39.56 | Wormy_ | I've found the last two tracks in this go very well with reading sci-fi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqLvtlAK81E |
16:40.29 | Wormy_ | I've been reading Mind Children by Hans Moravec, one of the first transhumanist books |
16:40.43 | Wormy_ | His imagination is out there too |
16:56.16 | DrodoEmpire | There |
16:56.27 | DrodoEmpire | Finally removed the archetype thing from the Drodo Empire page |
16:56.42 | DrodoEmpire | Its an older meme anyway, and its says that they're scientists when they -so- aren't <.< |
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16:57.18 | DrodoEmpire | Drodo are probably some of the most superstitious people in the Fictionverse |
16:57.21 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
16:57.59 | Xho | ack |
16:58.04 | Wormy_ | Using archetypes in the fiction universe is no better than a hangover, a momento to Spore. They are way too general to characterise societies outside of a game. |
16:58.09 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
16:58.54 | Wormy_ | DCP has elements of knight, warrior and scientist, but even that's too simple |
16:59.12 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
16:59.24 | DrodoEmpire | Speaking of superstition |
16:59.37 | DrodoEmpire | I should probably flesh out Drodo religious stuff, and write about the Imperial Cult |
16:59.39 | Xho | Could you imagine how shit our fiction would be if it adhered too close to Spore |
16:59.40 | Wormy_ | hi |
16:59.43 | Xho | OH LOOK IT'S A SPICE CRISIS |
16:59.56 | DrodoEmpire | lmao |
17:00.55 | Wormy_ | "Help the Cephalodians to fix and ecodisaster because they find killing creatures a problem and won't do it themselves" |
17:01.01 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
17:01.08 | Wormy_ | *an |
17:01.25 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah its like five animals on your planet the size of a postage stamp |
17:01.42 | DrodoEmpire | And I -know- yall got guns, they just don't work against tanks <.< |
17:01.44 | Xho | Hachiman: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Tales_of_Champions/Orichalcum_Age Kinmo nearly gets fucked by an Orichalcum Elf |
17:02.32 | DrodoEmpire | I wonder if the Drodo would perhaps offer foreign dignitaries the opportunity to kick off the animal sacrifices that often accompany big events like diplomatic meetings and celebrations |
17:02.44 | DrodoEmpire | It'd be one of those weird things with Drodo culture(s) in general |
17:04.07 | DrodoEmpire | (Plus seeing a French guy get his ten zillion dollar suit splattered in weird alien space-cow blood is a weirdly funny mental image :p) |
17:05.01 | Xho | I thought you said metal image |
17:05.04 | Xho | Still would have worked |
17:05.09 | DrodoEmpire | ayy |
17:05.28 | Imperios | Xho: Oh and Radeons demanding tribute from everyone |
17:05.37 | Imperios | DrodoEmpire: Imperial cult? Like in Rome or China? |
17:05.40 | Xho | They pretty much do that anyway tho |
17:05.45 | DrodoEmpire | Imperios: Similar to, yeah |
17:05.57 | Imperios | Where there's a fairly simple polytheistic religion in which the emperor is revered |
17:06.06 | Imperios | But is not the main point of worship |
17:06.33 | DrodoEmpire | Basically, it'd be a not-state-religion worshipping the Imperial Dynasty, which is usually done as a secondary thing to a Drodo's primary pantheon/god |
17:06.40 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah precisely |
17:06.52 | DrodoEmpire | It wouldn't be a government institution, importantly |
17:07.08 | DrodoEmpire | But it'd be a popular supplement to Drodo polytheism |
17:08.41 | Tek0516 | The FTC still has some remnants of the Trader philosophy in it (having "Trade" doesn't help XD) but they're a bit more complicated than just that |
17:09.30 | Tek0516 | *Trade in the name |
17:11.12 | DrodoEmpire | Another important thing about Drodo religion is that its very classical, and thus, pretty tolerant. They think every god exists essentially, and that they all have jurisdiction over different people and places. Hence the Drodo pantheons are all basically one enormous one in the modern day, with gods numbering in the thousands united by very similar or the same myths and stories |
17:11.59 | DrodoEmpire | The Drodo tolerance would probably be best observed when they go to other nations-- if in France, they'd pay a visit to a Catholic cathedral; if in the Divinarium, they'd pay their respects to Spode, and so on |
17:12.57 | DrodoEmpire | The mindset being you shouldn't piss off the big boys over here or else you might get yourself in trouble :p |
17:14.47 | DrodoEmpire | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
17:14.50 | DrodoEmpire | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
17:14.54 | DrodoEmpire | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
17:14.55 | DrodoEmpire | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TfTdqqjbW0 |
17:15.14 | Tek0516 | Shit. Alarm went off and we had to evacuate my office. |
17:16.11 | Imperios | DrodoEmpire: So again like Romans or the Chinese? |
17:16.13 | Tek0516 | It's still cold. I hope this is quick. >.< |
17:16.17 | DrodoEmpire | Imperios: Yeah |
17:16.34 | DrodoEmpire | Classical sort of style, as I mentione |
17:16.34 | Imperios | I imagine many Drodo would see it as a cultural thing rather than being true believers |
17:16.35 | DrodoEmpire | *d |
17:16.53 | DrodoEmpire | For a lot of people, religion would be cultural yeah |
17:17.17 | DrodoEmpire | Enforced by superstitions, festivals, and the like |
17:17.50 | DrodoEmpire | "Total War: Kekistan" <-- if only my people could get such recognition |
17:18.16 | Xho | no oats |
17:21.08 | DrodoEmpire | Though I don't think people would not take it seriously, generally. I think people would have some genuine belief most of the time |
17:21.20 | DrodoEmpire | They just wouldn't be fanatics, or fundimentalist |
17:25.27 | Imperios | It's probably pretty easy to become religious in, well, SporeWiki |
17:26.13 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
17:26.32 | DrodoEmpire | (I swear to fucking god if this is an april fools joke by CA I'll kill myself) |
17:26.35 | DrodoEmpire | (>:) |
17:30.04 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: And then next door there's Farengeto with its (highly controversial) anti-religious policies. :P |
17:30.19 | DrodoEmpire | Oh yeah |
17:30.25 | DrodoEmpire | What're their policies, exactly? |
17:32.20 | Xho | fuck bitches get money |
17:33.29 | DrodoEmpire | ayy |
17:33.52 | DrodoEmpire | Alright |
17:34.12 | DrodoEmpire | So the stream has pretty much triangulated one of two possibilities for next TW |
17:34.15 | DrodoEmpire | China, or Mesoamerica |
17:34.23 | DrodoEmpire | *two |
17:34.31 | DrodoEmpire | (what the fuck does one of two even mean) |
17:34.34 | DrodoEmpire | (anyways) |
17:35.21 | DrodoEmpire | The background's tropical and there's some triangular building in the background-- stream isn't sure if its a Mayan temple or a buddhist monastery of some sort |
17:36.30 | DrodoEmpire | It being Mesoamerica would line up a bit better with the scenery (I'm convinced its a Mayan temple myself), plus some of the calls, including the roar, sound a -bit- like howler monkeys, which are in South/Central America |
17:36.59 | DrodoEmpire | However |
17:37.30 | DrodoEmpire | It being China would be more consistent with what CA has already said, which is that the next TW would be in a historical setting not visited before |
17:37.47 | DrodoEmpire | Mesoamerica has been visited in a Medieval II expansion, so I dunno if that "counts" |
17:38.48 | Tek0516 | It's mostly vaguely defined but it's policies are a series of "international" treaties from the early FTC days primarily focused on opposing theocratic ideas and religious extremism, born amidst the genocidal crusades of the Gargator. Restrictions on the import of foreign religion and on the ability to spread religion in general. That last part could |
17:38.48 | Tek0516 | potentially place some limits on public displays of religion too. Though IC this is still highly controversial of course. |
17:39.24 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh makes sense |
17:40.55 | Tek0516 | It's probably riddled with a fair bit of blatant anti-Gargator/Spodist subtexts that makes it especially unpopular among them. (The other half of the original treaties were an outright military coalition against them) |
17:41.55 | DrodoEmpire | Righ |
17:41.56 | DrodoEmpire | *t |
17:44.05 | DrodoEmpire | ...Or it could be an april fools joke, and this is actually just a Warhammer expansion promo |
17:44.09 | DrodoEmpire | In whcih case |
17:44.11 | DrodoEmpire | Fuck them |
17:44.26 | DrodoEmpire | Because there's a third possibility that the structure is a lizardman pyramid |
17:44.36 | Imperios | THEY ARE BRINGING FUCKING LIZARDMEN |
17:44.37 | Imperios | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH |
17:44.39 | Imperios | GLORIOUS |
17:45.00 | Imperios | I haven't been up to speed about TW: Warhammer |
17:45.04 | Imperios | What factions are there ATM? |
17:45.09 | DrodoEmpire | Lots |
17:45.21 | DrodoEmpire | I couldn't tell you off the top of my dome |
17:45.36 | DrodoEmpire | I mean, WH:TW is cool and all but I've been on the edge of my seat for the next historical title and you just don't tease people like this >.< |
17:45.39 | Tek0516 | I might retcon the war that lead to the annexation of the Gargator, it doesn't hold up as well in retrospect |
17:45.53 | Imperios | DrodoEmpire: Are there Skaven and Lizardmen? |
17:45.58 | DrodoEmpire | I think so yep |
17:46.19 | Imperios | Woo |
17:50.34 | Xho | http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/9/91/AetheromancySigil.png/revision/latest?cb=20170329174455 I made a more wiki-esque Aetheromancy sigil |
17:52.25 | Imperios | Xho: Chaoses are the only true answers |
17:52.44 | Xho | xho agrees |
17:52.59 | Imperios | IT also looks tilted to the side |
17:53.25 | Xho | lel |
17:54.25 | Imperios | It looks like a combination of the Islamic rub-el-hizb, the Star of Chaos, and the Selburose |
17:54.41 | Xho | Nalashtannylor - me akbar |
17:56.05 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
17:56.12 | Wormy_ | hi |
17:57.33 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
18:13.52 | Hachiman | Back again |
18:14.04 | Hachiman | Well, if I bought Ultima, I cannae find it again among my load |
18:14.16 | Hachiman | Know where I can get books as PDFs or read them from an iPhone? |
18:14.33 | Wormy_ | Sorry, I don't |
18:14.41 | Hachiman | Wormy_: Also, is Obelisk worth considering a read? |
18:14.57 | Wormy_ | Not read that one yet, it is a collection of short stories |
18:15.22 | Hachiman | Actually I'm a dumbass |
18:15.25 | Hachiman | I can just use iBooks |
18:15.38 | Hachiman | So I can read it from my phone |
18:16.03 | Hachiman | Not the same as reading it in paper admittedly, which I kinda prefer, but whatever I suppose |
18:22.23 | Wormy_ | Carbon Based Lifeforms - World Of Sleepers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RszchMVvbs |
18:22.35 | Wormy_ | kind of fits the Dreamers hur |
18:22.49 | Xho | Hachiman: What exactly is the atttiude of Idkin towards void magic |
18:23.09 | Hachiman | rawr |
18:23.12 | Hachiman | That's their attitude |
18:23.29 | Hachiman | In basic, they're essentially magic-eaters |
18:24.10 | Wormy_ | actually this track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu2eAI7viFw |
18:29.03 | Imperios | Hachiman: "rawr" - Idkin on the meaning of life |
18:32.35 | Hachiman | Eugh this fucking Apple system |
18:37.10 | Xho | Well it's sort of an anti-everything kind of magic so I would have thought it was different |
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18:37.13 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapPlayer] by ChanServ |
18:37.34 | Hachiman | It's still magic hur |
18:37.35 | Hachiman | Hi |
18:37.48 | Xho | asfh |
18:37.49 | Xho | Hi |
18:38.45 | OluapPlayer | hi |
18:49.17 | Wormy_ | What's the weather like in Spain this time of year? |
18:49.24 | Hachiman | Should be good |
18:49.37 | Hachiman | Spring weather in France is like Summer weather for the UK |
18:49.49 | Hachiman | And where I am, I am only four hours out of Spain |
18:50.11 | Wormy_ | We had quite a warm weekend for England last week |
18:50.16 | Hachiman | You can basically just drive or walk across the border; Spanish customs don't really have a problem when it comes to southern France |
18:50.35 | Wormy_ | cool |
18:50.44 | Hachiman | I've got sunburn on my arms after reading Proxima while lounging on the balcony in the Sun hur |
18:50.45 | Xho | It was warm but not hot |
18:50.53 | Xho | Monday was 24 C |
18:51.13 | Wormy_ | There's a prediction that London could reach 20 C tomorrow |
18:51.19 | Xho | Last Friday was 14 C and windy so it was not fun |
18:51.28 | Wormy_ | Probably anywhere between 11 and 18 elsewhere |
18:52.05 | Hachiman | Just started reading Ultima and we begin with Yuri recording his last will and testament to ColU while Stef is apparently drinking Centurions under the table |
18:52.13 | Hachiman | This is nothing like Proxima already hur |
18:52.57 | Wormy_ | lol |
18:53.02 | Hachiman | I gotta say, Baxter pulling out spacefaring Romans utilizing kernel tech is quite a shock, even though I already knew about it beforehand |
18:53.29 | Wormy_ | I hope I did not ruin the rest of the book |
18:53.36 | Hachiman | Nah |
18:54.39 | Wormy_ | I really hope our universe has longer than 3 billion years to go |
18:54.51 | Wormy_ | It left me with a sense of despair |
18:55.00 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy_: You might be getting 20C weather, meanwhile in NS school was let out early because of the fucking snow >.< |
18:55.13 | Wormy_ | lol |
18:55.23 | Hachiman | I mean, I'm not bothered by how long our universe has left |
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18:55.33 | Wormy_ | I'm not, its about 13 today |
18:55.41 | DrodoEmpire | If the universe has -at least- 100 years left then I'm cool <.< |
18:55.47 | Wormy_ | But it is unusual, we have had snow too even in April |
18:55.55 | Treebeard | Hello |
18:55.59 | Hachiman | Myself and any descendants or otherwise inheritors of my legacy will already be dead by the time 3b years come around |
18:56.00 | Hachiman | Hi |
18:56.36 | Wormy_ | Yet if I find myself uploaded into a machine, trying to engineer the universe to lengthen my own timespan will be perogitive |
18:56.54 | DrodoEmpire | No way I'm living to be 117, and even if I do then at least it'll be cool to watch the universe end trillions of years ahead of schedule |
18:59.28 | Hachiman | I dunno, 117 doesn't seem too unrealistic a goal |
18:59.34 | Hachiman | Especially not for modern humans |
18:59.43 | Hachiman | What with improved healthcare and standards of living |
18:59.45 | Wormy_ | I'm probably just a Boltzmann brain with miliseconds left |
19:00.12 | Hachiman | Wormy_: This reminds me, a story about that Roko's Basilisk thing could be interesting |
19:00.19 | Wormy_ | But it doesn't matter when there's Boltzmann brain simulating every second of my existence |
19:00.49 | Hachiman | An AI in the future recruiting devotees in the present or something in order to assure that its own construction or whatever |
19:00.51 | Wormy_ | Hm I wouldn't be suprised if they exist |
19:01.01 | Hachiman | I dunno, I only vaguely understand the idea / concept |
19:01.28 | Wormy_ | It doesn't need to do anything, it just needs to be an idea |
19:01.43 | Wormy_ | Of course, if you believe it |
19:02.37 | Wormy_ | It punishes those that didn't contribute to it's design while those who did contribute to it's design won't be |
19:02.51 | Wormy_ | Which do you choose? |
19:03.54 | Xho | xhodocto |
19:04.04 | Hachiman | Hm |
19:04.08 | Hachiman | I chose not to believe it |
19:04.10 | Wormy_ | The Zen thing to do is unask the question and argue its a silly idea, people don't uniformly make decisions and such an AI simulating uncountable persons to get the right one might be physically impossible |
19:04.52 | Wormy_ | Yet the idea so disturbed people on the so-called rationalist LessWrong community the author retracted it |
19:05.51 | Hachiman | Jesus |
19:06.11 | Wormy_ | Taking timeless decision theory at face value however, one can see why its A) a self-fulfilling prophesy and B) whatever you do its either an immoral decision or a horrible outcome |
19:07.20 | Wormy_ | It goes for a lot of philosophical things though |
19:07.37 | Hachiman | So basically either; believe it and contribute to its construction to not be punished, but in turn promote the punishing of others / believe it and choose not to contribute to its construction, saving you from being responsible for punishing other people but as a result being punished / or choosing not to believe it |
19:08.07 | Wormy_ | Negative utilitarians believe that we should minimise suffering. Of course taking that to absurdity it means we should all commit suicide and be done with suffering for good. |
19:08.20 | Wormy_ | Yeah |
19:08.34 | Hachiman | Wouldn't the people who choose to not believe it also be worthy of being punished? |
19:08.39 | Hachiman | Or those who are unaware of the idea |
19:09.09 | Hachiman | Or does the Basilisk ultimately single out people who were made aware of the idea of its existence beforehand |
19:09.28 | Wormy_ | Well the myth around RB is that the author retracted the idea to stop it spreading |
19:09.56 | Wormy_ | Yes, they'd be worthy of being punished because they did not contribute. |
19:10.09 | Wormy_ | Those unaware are safe |
19:10.59 | Hachiman | So, they are safe because they *could not* possibly knowingly contribute or make the decision |
19:11.39 | Wormy_ | By knowing about RB, one can only act in two timeless decision-theoretic ways |
19:14.27 | Wormy_ | The whole concept is in all likelihood physically impossible, and if it were Roko's Basilisk wouldn't be infallible. |
19:16.04 | Xho | OluapPlayer: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Chaosphere/Void_Magic add deemuns or things |
19:17.06 | Wormy_ | Hachiman: I know of a story vaguely based on Roko http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/03/21/repost-the-demiurges-older-brother/ |
19:17.55 | Imperios | Hachiman: I just found out that the soldiers in the remove kebab video were not actually fighting for Serbia (sort of) |
19:18.10 | Xho | You know I never used black holes in Void Magic although that's a key feature of manipulating the void |
19:18.12 | Xho | feels bad |
19:18.23 | Imperios | Make CAli create wormholes |
19:20.02 | Xho | Caligaduro - WILDCARD BITCHES *zoooooom* |
19:20.22 | OluapPlayer | I've nothing to add to that |
19:21.18 | Xho | No other void magic users tho |
19:21.41 | OluapPlayer | My fiction uses dark magic, not void |
19:22.00 | Imperios | Wait what about Vargash? |
19:22.49 | OluapPlayer | I don't know about him, but his servants are dark-based |
19:23.15 | Hachiman | His followers use enhanced dark magic |
19:23.25 | Xho | shenanigans |
19:23.31 | Xho | Well not really |
19:23.35 | Xho | Kinda makes sense |
19:24.26 | Hachiman | Xho: https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17522668_1466993603319701_7890270272887708885_n.jpg?oh=409a9d9e23ef08d206c4526e18acfe35&oe=5950E538 |
19:24.41 | Xho | PORFOCT COLL |
19:26.45 | Xho | https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17630013_1867052810209862_1289921823053493877_n.jpg?oh=1e553182c7a7e5fc9369e375949360da&oe=595970D1 |
19:27.52 | OluapPlayer | I read that as jaguar at first |
19:28.13 | Xho | speech 101/100 |
19:28.24 | Hachiman | khajit/10 |
19:28.30 | OluapPlayer | Imperios: Doing Lower Karazhan locks you out of Upper and vice-versa |
19:28.33 | OluapPlayer | absolutely disgusting |
19:28.51 | Xho | nord no understand |
19:29.46 | Imperios | OluapPlayer: Nuuu |
19:29.54 | Imperios | Admittedly I only ran Karazhan once |
19:30.54 | OluapPlayer | Gonna have to wait until tomorrow to do Upper Karazhan now |
19:31.57 | Xho | OluapPlayer: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/156904791773458271/ADB316DDCD803D19D27EABCEC137D28F428C1284/ Hand me the bleach, super strong one |
19:32.17 | OluapPlayer | nani/10 |
19:33.59 | Xho | reasons why doing gmod hurts the soul |
19:34.16 | Hachiman | Funny how Nightmare Medic and MeeM both did rounds of being super popular and both of their creators regret their decisions |
19:34.42 | Xho | NiiN was never super popular |
19:34.45 | OluapPlayer | Chrome is having a stroke, brb |
19:34.55 | Xho | I don't really regret it either but I just regret the fan base |
19:35.45 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapPlayer (b3dc2a60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.179.220.42.96) |
19:35.46 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapPlayer] by ChanServ |
19:36.19 | Hachiman | Welcome black |
19:36.23 | Hachiman | Back* |
19:37.07 | Xho | welcome niggo |
19:37.17 | Hachiman | Wormy_: How is one supposed to actually... harvest a kernel? |
19:37.48 | Hachiman | I know that they're essentially wormholes, but how can they exist in places such as beneath the crust of Mercury and whatnot |
19:38.10 | Wormy_ | I think they were constructed |
19:38.44 | Hachiman | I mean, if they're wormholes, they cannot be moved or touched or anything right |
19:40.08 | Wormy_ | Well, they're still physical objects |
19:40.15 | Hachiman | Oh they're physical? |
19:40.34 | Hachiman | So, you *can* touch them and whatnot; they just emit high levels of energy |
19:40.38 | Wormy_ | They still have properties like mass, charge, angular momentum etc |
19:40.45 | Wormy_ | yeah |
19:41.20 | Hachiman | Right, okay, that clears some stuff up |
19:43.50 | Imperios | Hachiman Xho: I just realised how the Lizardmen's term for Warhammer's oceans, the Great Pond, is a reference to British English |
19:43.57 | Hachiman | hur |
19:44.04 | Hachiman | Yeah, that sounds like a reference |
19:44.07 | Xho | PARLIAMENT GO |
19:44.45 | Hachiman | I like how the Mayan anthro-dinosaurs ended up becoming equivalent to angels in the Age of Sigmar setting |
19:44.58 | Hachiman | That is, Lizardmen ascending to become the Seraphon and whatnot |
19:50.22 | Hachiman | You know, I think it's great that we have such a diverse range of users here, each specialized in a different field of knowledge |
19:50.34 | Hachiman | cus it meens i can use u all 4 muh own purposes wen i write muh books |
19:50.45 | Hachiman | and deyll be flawless i say |
19:50.57 | Imperios | YOU ARE GOING TO SHARE YOUR SALES WITH US |
19:51.09 | Hachiman | Fuck that noise m8 |
19:52.10 | Hachiman | I'm attempting to become an author; I can't afford to share what little I'm going to make when I eventually put stuff out hur |
19:52.44 | OluapPlayer | ur stuff is GAHBAGE and will sell like TRAYUSH |
19:52.56 | Hachiman | probably |
19:53.22 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (~Monet47@86.24.231.193) |
19:53.33 | Hachiman | Speaking of trash and garbage |
19:53.38 | Hachiman | Hi Monet |
19:54.13 | Monet | I'll take that as reverse psychology. |
19:54.15 | Monet | Hi |
19:55.22 | OluapPlayer | hi |
19:58.34 | Hachiman | Wormy_: Is it ever revealed where the energy emitted by the kernels is coming from? |
19:59.16 | Wormy_ | The boundary of the firewall at the end of time isn't smooth |
19:59.28 | Wormy_ | quantum fluctuations |
20:00.01 | Wormy_ | I think the kernels are wormholes built from these fluctuations and spread back in time |
20:04.06 | *** join/#sporewiki Methanogen (3aa40644@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.164.6.68) |
20:04.14 | Methanogen | Hello |
20:04.38 | Hachiman | Hi |
20:05.12 | Wormy_ | I can't help but think of http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Discharge |
20:05.45 | Methanogen | I have no idea what that is |
20:06.40 | Wormy_ | http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/2/21/Desmondintothelight.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100604232732 |
20:06.42 | Hachiman | I never watched Lost, I'm afraid |
20:06.47 | Wormy_ | Ah |
20:06.53 | Hachiman | I heard it got progressively shittier as time went on |
20:07.09 | Wormy_ | Lost was really good for the first few series, but it progressively got "lost" |
20:07.10 | Methanogen | A lot of things do |
20:07.19 | Wormy_ | Worth watching tho |
20:07.47 | Wormy_ | The ending wasn't satisfiactory and not all the mysteries were solved |
20:09.34 | Methanogen | I see, I've never watched it either |
20:09.47 | Wormy_ | The plot starts with a plane crashing on a tropical island, the survivors find their ills mysteriously healed. But progressively crazier things happen as they remain isolated from the rest of the world. The plot became really twisty and no-one understood what was going on by the end. |
20:10.30 | Methanogen | So basically it become incomprehensible after a while |
20:11.04 | Wormy_ | I think that was the point of it. But the ending couldn't account for everything in the middle |
20:11.19 | Methanogen | True |
20:11.38 | Wormy_ | I think it lacked that progression of drama typical in many plotlines with tension rising to a peak |
20:11.59 | Wormy_ | The ending was less interesting than what the series was trying to allude to |
20:12.29 | Methanogen | so it didn't have enough payoff after the buildup? |
20:12.43 | Wormy_ | That's a better way of saying it, yeah |
20:13.19 | Wormy_ | But the early series was very intriguing |
20:13.27 | Wormy_ | And the characters were good |
20:13.52 | Methanogen | So it's worth watching for the start even if the ending wasn't great |
20:14.08 | Wormy_ | I'd say so |
20:14.33 | Hachiman | Hm, I'll consider it |
20:14.44 | Hachiman | Anyway, what's up Meth? |
20:14.54 | Methanogen | Not a whole lot |
20:15.18 | Methanogen | My avoiding-writing-my-history-still is interrupted by actual stuff I have to do |
20:16.32 | Methanogen | Soon though I'll probably end up expanding upon the history of my societies |
20:16.53 | Methanogen | After that hopefully I can get a story of some kind going maybe idk |
20:17.10 | Hachiman | If you need some help regarding the Eriaroon faith or the Yorchi unification wars, I'd suggest asking for advice from Imperios and Drodo respectively |
20:17.46 | Methanogen | Are they good at this sort of thing? I remember Drodo helped a lot with weaponry stuff |
20:17.50 | Hachiman | Mainly because Imp is like the go-to guy regarding foreign cultures and religion and the like while Drodo is the best guy to consult when it comes to matters of military |
20:18.03 | Hachiman | Imp could also be useful for the Yorchi thing as well |
20:18.21 | Methanogen | I'll have to try ask them then |
20:18.28 | Wormy_ | There was a short lived sci-fi series I watched that involve colourful kernel-like artifacts discovered in the solar system on a human voyage. It was axed after 1 series but was very intriguing |
20:18.38 | Hachiman | Ouch |
20:18.38 | Wormy_ | Has anyone seen this? |
20:18.41 | Hachiman | What was it called? |
20:18.54 | Wormy_ | I can't remember and can no longer find it |
20:19.04 | Wormy_ | It had promise |
20:19.14 | Methanogen | I haven't watched that |
20:19.24 | Methanogen | It's a shame when promising stuff doesn't make it |
20:19.45 | Hachiman | I remember when Primeval used to be at least decent |
20:19.48 | Monet | Like Firefly. |
20:20.10 | Hachiman | Or rather, I am going by my sense of nostalgia that Primeval used to be decent |
20:20.32 | Imperios | Wow I am honoured |
20:20.37 | Imperios | So what is this Eriaroon thing like? |
20:21.04 | Wormy_ | I met the Primevil cast in Ashridge woods and had my photo taken with them after walking on set |
20:21.11 | Methanogen | I'll send a link to their empire page that'll probably be the shortest way |
20:21.50 | Monet | Hachiman: FIrst season was decent |
20:22.17 | Methanogen | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Eriaroon_Eugenic_Republic the part I was discussing is in "society and culture" idk how to link to subsections |
20:22.32 | Monet | I liked that little lizard thing (can't remember what they called it, lived with the girl) |
20:22.47 | Imperios | DrodoEmpire: https://2ch.hk/po/src/21673940/14908106945712.jpg |
20:23.06 | DrodoEmpire | ayy |
20:29.40 | Xho | http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/1/19/Demon2017.png/revision/latest?cb=20170329202904 Guess the character and I'll make a creature of your choosing |
20:30.52 | Methanogen | A...humanoid demon thing? I don't know this universe very well yet really got to work on that |
20:32.07 | Hachiman | Is it Santorakh |
20:32.28 | Wormy_ | Draguros |
20:32.55 | Xho | Fantasyverse |
20:33.41 | Treebeard | Looks like Caligaduro Provectus |
20:34.07 | Xho | I won't give any clues out |
20:36.41 | Xho | But no none right so far |
20:37.36 | Methanogen | I'm just going to look this up and see if I can find anything that looks like that |
20:39.24 | Monet | Fantasyverse or fictionverse |
20:39.39 | Xho | [21:32] <Xho> Fantasyverse |
20:43.55 | Hachiman | Hm |
20:44.10 | Technobliterator | wow |
20:44.15 | Technobliterator | Persona 5 has really good reviews too |
20:44.22 | Technobliterator | This year is shaping up to be an incredible year for games |
20:49.24 | Hachiman | Xho: Oh, is it Vanguard? |
20:49.36 | Xho | ding ding dingus |
20:49.52 | Xho | It's Vanguard's full form within Pavor |
20:49.59 | Hachiman | Nice |
20:50.21 | Xho | For the love of god don't make me make a giant dic |
20:50.24 | Xho | dick even |
20:50.53 | Methanogen | Good job guessing that, I had not a clue...not surprising but still |
20:51.25 | Hachiman | rite den hao bout u maek sumfin wiv tits |
20:51.35 | Xho | egad/10 |
20:52.56 | Methanogen | Got to go, nice talking to you |
20:53.09 | Wormy_ | bye |
21:06.30 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy__ (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
21:45.51 | Wormy__ | http://imgur.com/gallery/ggEte |
21:51.50 | DrodoEmpire | ohh dear |
21:59.42 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
22:03.36 | Wormy__ | h |
22:04.19 | DrodoEmpire | h there |
22:04.54 | Liquid_Ink | hell |
22:05.18 | Wormy_ | ~seen Wormy__ |
22:05.23 | infobot | wormy__ <516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43> was last seen on IRC in channel #cyrannus, 1m 44s ago, saying: 'i'. |
22:07.41 | DrodoEmpire | http://i.imgur.com/MIHRrhe.jpg |
22:08.55 | Wormy_ | rekt |
22:09.24 | DrodoEmpire | http://i.imgur.com/syfcHwD.gifv |
22:10.24 | Wormy_ | wot dafuk ami watching |
22:15.11 | DrodoEmpire | Chemistry <.< |