| 00:05.04 | Charles_Bot | Oh my |
| 00:08.03 | DrodoEmpire | HEY HEY HEY HEEY HEY HEY |
| 00:08.47 | Xho | wat |
| 00:09.13 | DrodoEmpire | The video <.< |
| 00:09.42 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:1cb4:5854:b59:eef0) |
| 00:09.42 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 00:18.51 | Xho | I blame David Bowie for ruining the universal harmony |
| 00:19.14 | DrodoEmpire | Hm |
| 00:20.06 | DrodoEmpire | I think I'ma start a new fic |
| 00:23.13 | Hachiman | Oh? |
| 00:23.38 | The_Randomness | :o |
| 00:24.04 | Xho | Wormy_: The shooting's been confirmed |
| 00:24.38 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah. I had an idea for an episodic sorta fic, because it seems like a good idea |
| 00:25.08 | DrodoEmpire | Basically, it'd be a Silvan expedition sent in to the gigaquadrant, tasked with learning as much as possible. I think I discussed it a while ago |
| 00:25.39 | DrodoEmpire | But now I might write the prologue for real |
| 00:25.47 | DrodoEmpire | Xho: Was anyone hurt or killed? |
| 00:28.43 | Wormy_ | damn |
| 00:30.52 | DrodoEmpire | And then I'd need someone for a first destination |
| 00:31.23 | Hachiman | The Loron |
| 00:31.30 | DrodoEmpire | olol |
| 00:32.26 | DrodoEmpire | Nah, probably something in the quadrants |
| 00:32.40 | DrodoEmpire | I'd say Galactica, and that'd be the logical thing |
| 00:32.54 | DrodoEmpire | But Charles is literally allergic to character RPs |
| 00:32.59 | DrodoEmpire | <.< |
| 00:33.37 | Hachiman | Huh |
| 00:34.24 | Hachiman | Wonder why that is |
| 00:34.43 | DrodoEmpire | Well, I joke |
| 00:35.10 | DrodoEmpire | But he isn't a fan of adventure style RPs, which would be a big part of this |
| 00:36.09 | DrodoEmpire | But it'd also involve a lot of negotiation and the sort, which he does like |
| 00:42.14 | *** join/#sporewiki Zillafire101 (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
| 00:43.11 | Zillafire101 | Hello all. |
| 00:46.07 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 00:47.43 | Wormy_ | lost nuke might have been found http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37875697 |
| 00:49.48 | Wormy_ | or ayy lmao saucer |
| 00:49.59 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 01:09.57 | Wormy_ | DrodoEmpire: One person killed, two people injured |
| 01:10.25 | Wormy_ | California, female gunman |
| 01:12.35 | DrodoEmpire | Bloody he;; |
| 01:19.06 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101 (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
| 01:34.28 | Wormy_ | night |
| 02:03.48 | *** join/#sporewiki NeonPanda (65b30e25@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.179.14.37) |
| 02:03.59 | NeonPanda | hi all |
| 04:06.27 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: We need to follow Trump's advice. We must build a wall on our southern border and make them pay for it! |
| 04:06.39 | DrodoEmpire | <.< |
| 04:07.22 | Tek0516 | CBC has it at 191-187 for Clinton right now. >.< |
| 04:07.42 | Tek0516 | With denial over Florida |
| 04:07.43 | DrodoEmpire | I mean, with the amount of melodramatic Americans who've vowed to leave if Trump wins, we might have to |
| 04:09.06 | Tek0516 | It's kind of depressing watching the mood go downhill in the CBC coverage. O.O |
| 04:09.34 | DrodoEmpire | Pfft |
| 04:09.51 | DrodoEmpire | Everyone's so triggered over trump |
| 04:09.54 | DrodoEmpire | Makes me laugh |
| 04:12.21 | Tek0516 | It's not even an American station, it's CBC. The people in it have gone from reasonably happy to "s***, is this actually happening?" XD They have some American Clinton supporter who literally said they have nothing left to lose before starting their comment. |
| 04:13.19 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah... |
| 04:17.48 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: The Canadian citizenship and immigration website crashed. O.o |
| 04:17.57 | DrodoEmpire | Yep |
| 04:18.01 | DrodoEmpire | Hacker from /pol/ |
| 04:59.59 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@95.140.92.146) |
| 05:01.07 | ImpyDroid | HOLY FUCKING SHIT |
| 05:01.09 | ImpyDroid | So |
| 05:01.23 | ImpyDroid | The hairball is actually winning? |
| 05:02.50 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 05:03.12 | Liquid_Ink | Hey, how's everyone doing? |
| 05:09.43 | DrodoEmpire | I'm great |
| 05:10.06 | DrodoEmpire | 'Cause Daddy's winning |
| 05:10.07 | DrodoEmpire | :> |
| 05:10.35 | DrodoEmpire | http://puu.sh/sbRXJ/6d48857d3c.png |
| 05:12.45 | Tek0516 | The CBC people have basically given up at this point. |
| 05:14.08 | DrodoEmpire | a y y l m a o |
| 05:14.31 | Tek0516 | They even jumped to the Hitler reference. >.> |
| 05:15.03 | DrodoEmpire | A Y Y L M A O |
| 05:18.36 | ImpyDroid | Liquid_Ink: The Dark One rises |
| 05:18.44 | ImpyDroid | Well |
| 05:18.44 | Liquid_Ink | XD |
| 05:18.48 | ImpyDroid | The Orange One |
| 05:19.47 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Bot (uid94017@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulfuimfhcytogdpf) |
| 05:19.53 | Charles_Bot | Well shit |
| 05:20.05 | Charles_Bot | Democrats have no plan for this |
| 05:20.07 | ImpyDroid | Charles_Bot: PROPAGANDA THE REICH WILL RISE |
| 05:20.12 | Charles_Bot | Nothing to fall back to |
| 05:20.18 | ImpyDroid | THE RISE OF EEEVIL |
| 05:20.33 | Charles_Bot | I would be extremely surprised if Clinton actually has a concession speech |
| 05:20.50 | Charles_Bot | Ready to go, that is |
| 05:20.51 | Liquid_Ink | It's interesting how the stock market is plummeting. They really had no plan for a Trump win. |
| 05:21.10 | ImpyDroid | Can Hill still have a comeback? |
| 05:21.22 | ImpyDroid | There are still like 90 votes remaining |
| 05:21.43 | Liquid_Ink | It's possible, but would be a miracle. |
| 05:22.01 | Liquid_Ink | Although, miracles one way or another is what this election is about. |
| 05:22.16 | Charles_Bot | Impydroid Let me look at the map |
| 05:22.16 | ImpyDroid | I expected him to win |
| 05:22.26 | Tek0516 | Charles_Bot: We're all fucked. |
| 05:22.30 | ImpyDroid | Sensible people usually lose elections because they do not vote |
| 05:23.01 | Liquid_Ink | Yeah, people hiding under the bed because they think if they ignore it it will go away |
| 05:23.06 | Charles_Bot | Clinton needs Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona to win |
| 05:23.24 | Charles_Bot | She is losing in all of these states but Penn |
| 05:23.24 | Tek0516 | Charles_Bot: You can just see the people on CBC just dying inside as this goes on. |
| 05:23.35 | Charles_Bot | In which she is tied with DJT |
| 05:23.46 | Charles_Bot | Yeah, there's no way at this point |
| 05:23.57 | DrodoEmpire | ayy |
| 05:23.59 | DrodoEmpire | AYYY |
| 05:24.07 | Charles_Bot | Honestly |
| 05:24.11 | DrodoTrumpire | AYYYYYY |
| 05:24.18 | Charles_Bot | If Donald Trump wins, I'm accepting that |
| 05:24.26 | Charles_Bot | It was a free and fair election |
| 05:24.28 | DrodoTrumpire | AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY |
| 05:24.39 | Wallrios | WE NEED TO BUILD A WALL |
| 05:24.45 | Tek0516 | This election... shit. Fair election indeed, but shit. |
| 05:24.59 | Wallrios | I should take an orange wig |
| 05:25.33 | Charles_Bot | This is how our system works. I feel like a stranger in my own country, but this is how everyone on the other side has been feeling for eight years. |
| 05:25.42 | Tek0516 | The Canadian Citizenship and Immigration website had literally crashed tonight. |
| 05:25.58 | Charles_Bot | So it's time to give them a shot at owning it for a while. |
| 05:28.40 | Tek0516 | At least the Canadian dollar might go- oh shit our dollar apparently fell. |
| 05:29.15 | Charles_Bot | Watch the stages of grief over the next three days or so |
| 05:29.19 | Charles_Bot | Also the stock market |
| 05:29.43 | Tek0516 | I wasn't prepared for this. |
| 05:29.53 | Charles_Bot | I'm still deciding whether I want to throw all of my money at it as it's falling. The big question is whether it will rebound. |
| 05:31.02 | Charles_Bot | If anyone has any analysis questions about the next four, eight, or ten years, I can answer them |
| 05:31.18 | DrodoTrumpire | I think the market always slumps after big votes like this, especially if they go in the "wrong" direction |
| 05:31.21 | DrodoTrumpire | Not a big deal |
| 05:31.32 | Tek0516 | Yeah |
| 05:31.43 | Charles_Bot | Not -exactly- |
| 05:32.17 | DrodoTrumpire | Okay, then what happens? |
| 05:32.20 | Tek0516 | Well it's going to slump. The question is on recovery. |
| 05:32.42 | Tek0516 | I keep seeing the Brexit reference a lot. |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-211-152-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 05:33.34 | Charles_Bot | Trump as president means more uncertainty, a departure from the status quo towards policies that diverge from the economically liberal (old sense of the term) consensus that has governed American foreign and economic policies no matter which party is in office |
| 05:34.02 | DrodoTrumpire | Ehh true |
| 05:34.42 | Charles_Bot | Trump is publicly against trade, has spoken out against America's role as a global stabilizer and guarantor, has thrown doubt on NATO, etc |
| 05:35.28 | Charles_Bot | Uncertainty/change/divergences from the status quo = generally bad for investment |
| 05:36.23 | ImpyDroid | Kwkw |
| 05:36.25 | ImpyDroid | Kek |
| 05:36.28 | Charles_Bot | Same for Brexit, its uncharted territory and represented the UK throwing off what made it economically relevant in the 21st century in favor of a much more uncertain future |
| 05:37.44 | Charles_Bot | So in this case, Tek is right, the question is whether investors will stay their hand as investments and securities and keep withdrawing their money when they see the market continuing in a downwards slope |
| 05:38.21 | Charles_Bot | Or will they learn from Brexit and start throwing money at it, causing it to stabilize and leading stock prices to quickly recover? |
| 05:39.38 | Charles_Bot | I honestly don't know the answer to that question |
| 05:43.08 | Charles_Bot | I hope that makes sense? |
| 05:44.11 | Wallrios | Yeah |
| 05:46.50 | Wallrios | When will the remaining states throw their vote? |
| 05:54.31 | Tek0516 | Whenever it gets counted |
| 05:56.56 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@195.19.236.11) |
| 05:58.21 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@195.19.236.11) |
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| 06:00.39 | Charles_Bot | ImpyDroid Battleground states take longer to count because their results are far more uncertain and you need a larger sample until you can definitively make a call |
| 06:01.45 | Charles_Bot | I have no idea what alaska's doing |
| 06:02.07 | Charles_Bot | Polls closed 2 hours ago |
| 06:02.20 | Charles_Bot | Oh my |
| 06:02.25 | ImpyDroid2 | Hm? |
| 06:02.30 | Charles_Bot | I'm hearing shouts of "FUCK" |
| 06:02.37 | Charles_Bot | "WHAT THE FUCK" |
| 06:02.41 | Charles_Bot | "FUUUUUUCK" |
| 06:02.48 | Charles_Bot | Upstairs xD |
| 06:03.05 | ImpyDroid2 | So Hill got a few more votes |
| 06:03.10 | ImpyDroid2 | Where are these from? |
| 06:03.41 | Charles_Bot | The vote tally isn't important, a lot of the states she's getting are safe |
| 06:03.50 | Charles_Bot | We knew she was going to get those |
| 06:04.03 | Charles_Bot | What's important is the battleground states |
| 06:04.49 | ImpyDroid2 | And Hair won these, as far as I understand |
| 06:05.06 | ImpyDroid2 | right? |
| 06:06.07 | ImpyDroid2 | What are these two big undecided states on the northeast of Burgerland called? |
| 06:06.18 | Charles_Bot | Is winning at this stage |
| 06:06.25 | Charles_Bot | Please use their actual names |
| 06:06.47 | Charles_Bot | That's Maine and New Hampshite |
| 06:06.53 | Charles_Bot | Hampshire |
| 06:07.16 | Charles_Bot | Those will probably go Clinton |
| 06:09.27 | ImpyDroid2 | Right |
| 06:09.34 | ImpyDroid2 | Maine and New Hampshire |
| 06:12.58 | Tek0516 | Part of the problem is some states that were supposed to be relatively safe she's now losing in. |
| 06:15.04 | Tek0516 | As far as I've seen she's basically lost or is losing in all the major battleground states. |
| 06:16.33 | Tek0516 | I have a class I didn't even want to go to in the morning. Should probably get what sleep I can. |
| 06:16.51 | ImpyDroid2 | Charles_Bot: Wait, I meant the ones with more voters |
| 06:17.00 | ImpyDroid2 | Pennsylvania and Michigan |
| 06:17.10 | ImpyDroid2 | What can these vote for? |
| 06:17.21 | ImpyDroid2 | *For whom cana these vote? |
| 06:17.23 | ImpyDroid2 | *can |
| 06:19.16 | DrodoAway | I sleep |
| 06:19.32 | DrodoAway | Safe in the knowledge that Daddy will be our next president |
| 06:19.37 | DrodoAway | :> |
| 06:25.58 | ImpyDroid2 | Tek0516: You ought to rename himself "Kek0516" for the duration of the day |
| 06:26.06 | ImpyDroid2 | *yourself |
| 06:36.45 | Charles_Bot | Impydroid2 All voting is over |
| 06:36.58 | Charles_Bot | The polls are closed, we're counting votes now |
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| 06:49.43 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 06:51.29 | ImpyDroid2 | Charles_Bot: Damn you nitpicker |
| 06:51.39 | ImpyDroid2 | Could they have voted for |
| 06:51.50 | ImpyDroid2 | For whom could they HAVE voted |
| 06:59.59 | Charles_Bot | There goes Pennsylvania |
| 07:00.23 | Charles_Bot | It's over Impy |
| 07:00.28 | Charles_Bot | ImpyDroid2 |
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| 07:25.46 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 07:30.20 | ImpyDroid2 | Yiy |
| 07:31.04 | ImpyDroid2 | Charles_Bot: Hair already got the needed 270? |
| 07:32.23 | Charles_Bot | No |
| 07:32.42 | Charles_Bot | But there's no way Clinton can at this point |
| 07:33.06 | Charles_Bot | (The electoral college is weird and counterintuitive, just roll with it) |
| 07:36.53 | ImpyDroid2 | HAIR WON |
| 07:36.55 | ImpyDroid2 | HAIR WON |
| 07:37.00 | ImpyDroid2 | AHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 07:37.11 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 07:37.35 | Technobliterator | This is one of those times when I am very sad to be right |
| 07:38.20 | ImpyDroid2 | Does not matter; we aren't Americans |
| 07:38.35 | ImpyDroid2 | I have one more reason to laugh at the US |
| 07:39.24 | Liquid_Ink | Keep in mind Impy that the rest of us live in American client states. |
| 07:40.16 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-147-152-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 07:41.13 | Technobliterator | Well, we live on the same planet, and no way will Trump do anything about climate change now |
| 07:41.15 | Technobliterator | We're done for |
| 07:42.40 | Liquid_Ink | Don't fall into despair |
| 07:44.23 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator Liquid_Ink: Haven't you both been living in Reichs either way? |
| 07:44.35 | ImpyDroid | UK post-Brexit, Australia for a while |
| 07:44.38 | Liquid_Ink | Pretty true |
| 07:44.53 | ImpyDroid | I mean it is rich coming from a Russian accusing someone of being too right-wing |
| 07:45.18 | ImpyDroid | But still Trump is part of a greater trend |
| 07:45.43 | Liquid_Ink | It's not that our governments are better, it's that the United States having that sort of government legitimises and rallies these peopl.e |
| 07:46.11 | Liquid_Ink | Actually if we look at the bright side, when Donald Trump fails to deliver on his anti-establishment policies it will ruin right-wing populism for a long while. |
| 07:46.23 | Technobliterator | At least they're not going to rip up the Paris agreement |
| 07:46.40 | Technobliterator | I predict the planet has at least a decade left |
| 07:46.43 | Technobliterator | then it's done |
| 07:47.55 | Liquid_Ink | You should be more optimistic. |
| 07:50.53 | Technobliterator | There's nothing to be optimistic about |
| 07:51.39 | ImpyDroid | >nothing to be optimistic about |
| 07:51.43 | ImpyDroid | Welcome to our world |
| 07:51.53 | ImpyDroid | ÐобÑо пожаловаÑÑ Ð² ад |
| 07:53.53 | ImpyDroid | Liquid_Ink: I predict Trump will chicken out |
| 07:54.04 | Liquid_Ink | That would be interesting |
| 07:54.21 | NeonPanda | that would actually be quite interesting to be honest |
| 07:54.23 | NeonPanda | and very welcome |
| 07:54.24 | ImpyDroid | He no longer lacks strings, as he did as a businessman funding his own campaign |
| 07:55.04 | ImpyDroid | Now he has to pander for all the elite in the White House and Wall-Street |
| 07:55.12 | ImpyDroid | *pander tl |
| 07:55.14 | ImpyDroid | *to |
| 07:55.16 | NeonPanda | I can envision a scenario in which that's the case, specifically the whole thing being essentially a publicity campaign |
| 07:55.37 | ImpyDroid | Besides America had weird or just idiotic presidents before |
| 07:55.45 | ImpyDroid | Bush Jr., Reagan, etc |
| 07:56.04 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormydroid (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
| 07:56.20 | Wormydroid | Popcorn |
| 07:56.21 | ImpyDroid | Wormydroid: THE DARK LORD RISES |
| 07:56.32 | NeonPanda | I'm mostly concerned about Trump wanting higher militarisation in asia than anything else tbh |
| 07:56.39 | Wormydroid | You mean the neural parasites |
| 07:56.55 | ImpyDroid | He probably has quite a few in his hair |
| 07:57.15 | ImpyDroid | NeonPanda: Well both Hill and Trump are militaristic anyway |
| 07:57.17 | Technobliterator | Imp, we don't have time for Trump 2.0 |
| 07:57.21 | Technobliterator | climate change is killing the planet |
| 07:57.23 | Technobliterator | We're done for |
| 07:57.23 | Wormydroid | I think his hair is one |
| 07:57.36 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator: My point is |
| 07:57.43 | ImpyDroid | Trump is not as powerful as we think |
| 07:57.52 | Technobliterator | Yes he is |
| 07:57.56 | Technobliterator | Paris agreement, ripped up |
| 07:57.57 | Technobliterator | boom |
| 07:57.58 | Technobliterator | planet dead |
| 07:58.00 | ImpyDroid | As President he will have to cater to all the elites |
| 07:58.05 | ImpyDroid | In the country |
| 07:58.12 | Technobliterator | and you think the elites are any better? |
| 07:58.17 | ImpyDroid | ...True |
| 07:58.20 | Wormydroid | A few other poiticians have similar parasites |
| 07:58.33 | ImpyDroid | But some of his weirder plans won't come into fruition I am sure |
| 07:58.40 | Charles_Bot | I'm still awake |
| 07:58.46 | Charles_Bot | Careful |
| 07:58.47 | ImpyDroid | Also America is not even the main perpetrator of climate change |
| 07:59.31 | Charles_Bot | 2nd largest carbon emitter. 1st largest if you count that most of China's production is actually the US's production. |
| 07:59.34 | Technobliterator | Doesn't matter if the paris agreement is done |
| 08:00.01 | ImpyDroid | Charles_Bot: Yeah but with or without Drumppf, there is still China |
| 08:00.33 | Charles_Bot | If the US does nothing about CC, China doesn't do anything about CC |
| 08:00.49 | Liquid_Ink | The thing is, you're curling into a ball and despair and giving up on everything, and that's what the elite wants |
| 08:01.33 | Wormydroid | This guy makes the established elite feel threatened Liquid |
| 08:01.44 | Wormydroid | Not that its good |
| 08:01.45 | ImpyDroid | That is fair |
| 08:01.55 | Technobliterator | But not threatened into acting on literally the biggest threat facing the planet |
| 08:02.34 | Liquid_Ink | Wormy: That is true, and we need to look at this as an opportunity |
| 08:03.19 | Wormydroid | They didn't anticipate his style of politics to be successful but it woke up some boiling undercurrents |
| 08:03.19 | Liquid_Ink | I worded that poorly, but let me elaborate |
| 08:03.36 | Liquid_Ink | Yes, there is a boiling undercurrent against the establishment |
| 08:04.01 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator: but I welcome America turning into a burning wasteland |
| 08:04.16 | Liquid_Ink | Impy: That's not helping |
| 08:04.16 | Technobliterator | It will be the rest of the world with it, Imp |
| 08:04.30 | ImpyDroid | Not us |
| 08:04.43 | Liquid_Ink | Trump was voted in by people scared of poverty, thinking that since he's something new it'll change things. Once he fails to deliver (he's there for himself, that's all), it will ruin the reputation of right-wing populism |
| 08:04.56 | Charles_Bot | 270 electoral votes |
| 08:04.58 | Wormydroid | Check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation |
| 08:04.59 | Charles_Bot | There we go |
| 08:05.10 | Wormydroid | 275 |
| 08:05.18 | Charles_Bot | Ik |
| 08:05.25 | Charles_Bot | Limit is 270 |
| 08:05.33 | ImpyDroid | We will get a nice temperate climate and melting Siberian ice shall provide us with copious amounts of freshwater to distribute to you Westerners >:3 |
| 08:05.47 | ImpyDroid | But first it is time to BOW |
| 08:05.54 | Charles_Bot | Also fired and famines |
| 08:05.58 | Charles_Bot | Fires* |
| 08:06.07 | ImpyDroid | We have that aplenty already |
| 08:06.17 | Wormydroid | Brb |
| 08:06.31 | Liquid_Ink | Seriously Impy you're not helping |
| 08:06.44 | ImpyDroid | I am not even sure if I am kidding or being serious |
| 08:06.48 | ImpyDroid | But alright soz |
| 08:07.04 | Charles_Bot | That's not a good sign Impy |
| 08:07.40 | ImpyDroid | That is because it does not concern me specifically so I am less serious than you obviously |
| 08:07.43 | Liquid_Ink | Speaking of elections, I hear the recent Russian Duma election had record low turnout |
| 08:07.49 | ImpyDroid | Indeed |
| 08:08.01 | ImpyDroid | The levels of not giving a fuck have been abnormally high |
| 08:08.40 | Charles_Bot | I mean |
| 08:08.44 | Charles_Bot | That makes sense |
| 08:08.58 | Charles_Bot | It's Russia in the 2010's |
| 08:09.05 | Charles_Bot | What else did you expect |
| 08:09.25 | Technobliterator | I totally saw this coming |
| 08:09.33 | Technobliterator | I just absolutely knew it would happen in my gut |
| 08:09.34 | Technobliterator | and yet |
| 08:09.36 | Technobliterator | it's still so sad |
| 08:10.05 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator: I saw it coming but I was doubtful until the end |
| 08:10.06 | Liquid_Ink | It was probably all the non-United Russia voters giving up. |
| 08:10.32 | Charles_Bot | That's not how the Russian system works |
| 08:10.34 | ImpyDroid | Liquid_Ink: We went from "YAY PUTIN" in 2014 to "whatever" in 2016 |
| 08:10.46 | Liquid_Ink | Charles: Oh? |
| 08:11.33 | Charles_Bot | Non Kremlin-approved opposition parties are pretty much banned and non-Kremlin approved politicians suppressed |
| 08:11.45 | Charles_Bot | Russia has only a token opposition |
| 08:11.46 | ImpyDroid | Charles_Bot: Not all of them |
| 08:11.50 | ImpyDroid | There's PARNAS |
| 08:11.55 | Charles_Bot | So nothing to really vote for |
| 08:12.04 | ImpyDroid | But yeah Navalny was not allowed to run for example |
| 08:12.12 | Charles_Bot | ^ |
| 08:12.22 | ImpyDroid | We have Putin and these small token groups |
| 08:12.51 | Charles_Bot | So elections are ornamental at this point |
| 08:12.58 | ImpyDroid | Sort of |
| 08:13.02 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormydroid (1f6f6f86@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.111.111.134) |
| 08:13.11 | Wormydroid | Hi |
| 08:13.18 | Charles_Bot | Oh? |
| 08:14.08 | Liquid_Ink | Before this recent election, United Russia only held onto a majority by four seats if I recall. |
| 08:14.28 | ImpyDroid | There are four large parties |
| 08:14.49 | ImpyDroid | They disagree on stuff like economical policy and the like but are all in cahoots with the establishment |
| 08:14.54 | Wormydroid | Charles any possibility Brexit's surprise victory had any after shocks in swaying a bigger turn out for Trump? |
| 08:15.07 | Charles_Bot | No |
| 08:15.08 | ImpyDroid | Wormydroid: I would say they are part of the same trend |
| 08:15.35 | Charles_Bot | More than that, similar demographic and economic forces |
| 08:15.57 | ImpyDroid | I can see why both movements won |
| 08:16.06 | ImpyDroid | Radicals are more interested in voting |
| 08:16.16 | Charles_Bot | Somewhat similar social and national forces to a lesser extent |
| 08:16.38 | ImpyDroid | So there might be more people who were for Remain but they did not care as much as Leavers |
| 08:16.43 | ImpyDroid | And many of them did not show up |
| 08:17.11 | Wormydroid | But what about getting people who wouldn't otherwise vote believing they could defeat whqtcthey perceive as establishment politics? |
| 08:17.49 | Charles_Bot | It's a bit more complicated than that. Polls showed the two neck-and-neck |
| 08:17.59 | Charles_Bot | In the lead up to Brexit |
| 08:18.24 | ImpyDroid | Are you answering to Wormy or to me? |
| 08:18.43 | Wormydroid | Well, I'm sure it'd only be a small contribution, if at all. But Brexit surprised everyone |
| 08:18.48 | Charles_Bot | A bit of both, but it's also 3 am |
| 08:18.57 | Charles_Bot | So did this |
| 08:19.08 | ImpyDroid | Look at the right, the right is rising everywhere |
| 08:19.19 | ImpyDroid | The quite radical right too |
| 08:19.23 | ImpyDroid | The REICH IS RISING |
| 08:19.37 | Charles_Bot | Impy, stahp |
| 08:19.50 | Wormydroid | Yeah, but what I'm asking is, could events like this empower them? |
| 08:20.13 | Liquid_Ink | It will, until Trump fails to deliver. |
| 08:20.32 | Wormydroid | Surely things like Brexit do carry aftershocks |
| 08:20.39 | Charles_Bot | In Europe, yes. Brexit carries great symbolic power for other states with symbolic power |
| 08:20.40 | Liquid_Ink | Oh, that. |
| 08:20.44 | Charles_Bot | It's like suicides |
| 08:21.17 | Wormydroid | Yeah |
| 08:21.26 | Charles_Bot | They happen in waves because when one person goes over the edge, it suddenly becomes a conceivable reality for those around them |
| 08:22.02 | Charles_Bot | In the United States, Brexit was a blip in the narratives of the campaign |
| 08:23.06 | Wormydroid | Trump did try when he invited Farage to speak |
| 08:23.29 | Charles_Bot | I didn't even know that happened |
| 08:23.46 | Charles_Bot | Keep in mind that you're living in the U.K. media bubble |
| 08:24.13 | Wormydroid | Yeah, check out Farage's speeches at Trump conventions, and his interviewsvwith Fox |
| 08:24.45 | Wormydroid | His message to the American voters was that they could beat the system "if we could" |
| 08:25.17 | Wormydroid | But you're right UK media would have inflated the prominance |
| 08:25.25 | Wormydroid | Prominence |
| 08:25.34 | Charles_Bot | Right, but if it was important in the US I would have heard about it. Trump has an army of surrogates, most of them with greater name recognition in the US than Farage, and none of them make it into the grander narratives of the campaign |
| 08:26.22 | Wormydroid | Brexit is powerful message though |
| 08:26.46 | Charles_Bot | Not really, most Americans have forgotten about it already |
| 08:26.48 | Charles_Bot | Moved on |
| 08:27.01 | Technobliterator | Much like his sexual assault tapes, apparently |
| 08:27.07 | Charles_Bot | It's hugely important to the U.K., absolutely, and to Europe |
| 08:27.33 | Charles_Bot | But again, we're talking about how Americans see themselves, and the stories they tell about themselves |
| 08:27.35 | Wormydroid | Our influence in the world isn't out yet! Jk |
| 08:27.44 | Wormydroid | evil brit laughs |
| 08:27.56 | Technobliterator | Frankly, Trump gave his party a gift |
| 08:28.02 | Technobliterator | by making them the populist party |
| 08:28.06 | Technobliterator | instead of the establishment party |
| 08:28.40 | Wormydroid | But okay, I'll accrpt that Brexit was quickly forgotten even if Trump pushed its narrative a couple if times |
| 08:29.13 | Charles_Bot | But the point is that nobody here knows how a president Trump will act. And I mean nobody. This would have been true of a President-elect Clinton, and was true of a President-Elect Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc |
| 08:29.33 | Charles_Bot | Fundamentally, Presidents act differently when in office than on the campaign |
| 08:30.03 | Charles_Bot | Obama was a liberal on the campaign and a moderate in office, to give a horribly oversimplified example |
| 08:30.11 | Technobliterator | it's extremely obvious it will be Bush 2.0 |
| 08:30.22 | Charles_Bot | No, it's not |
| 08:30.22 | Technobliterator | you expect more groesque wars and likely another 08 crash |
| 08:30.28 | Wormydroid | I'm think Congress could be a barrier for him when most Republicans hate him |
| 08:30.35 | Charles_Bot | ... |
| 08:30.38 | Charles_Bot | Guys |
| 08:30.44 | Technobliterator | maybe Pence will make it more socially conservative, but otherwise, it'll be Bush again |
| 08:31.04 | Technobliterator | also, it's worse, because nothing will be done on climate change |
| 08:31.08 | Charles_Bot | You're saying things with the certainty of fact |
| 08:31.13 | Technobliterator | ie literally the most important issue on the planet by far |
| 08:31.14 | Technobliterator | We're done for |
| 08:31.19 | Charles_Bot | We don't know these things |
| 08:31.20 | Technobliterator | thanks, Democrats |
| 08:32.01 | Charles_Bot | No, we cannot expect any of these things >.< |
| 08:32.20 | Charles_Bot | Unless you can see into the future and tell me with absolute certainty what has happened. |
| 08:32.33 | Liquid_Ink | If you just curl into a ball and give up then you are as complicit as any of Trump's diehard supporters. |
| 08:32.33 | Charles_Bot | In which case I will concede |
| 08:32.38 | Technobliterator | Charles, he said on the campaign trail he would get rid of the EPA and rip up the Paris climate agreement, and every policy on his platform is a Bush tax cut policy |
| 08:32.45 | Liquid_Ink | A big enough protest can stop any act of tyranny. |
| 08:32.53 | Technobliterator | Not to mention, "when you go take out these terrorists, you have to go after their families" |
| 08:33.05 | Technobliterator | no to mention, Mike Pence is the actual guy in charge, who is basically Dick Cheney |
| 08:33.12 | Technobliterator | It's extremely obvious which way this will go |
| 08:33.15 | Charles_Bot | Obama said he would close Guantanamo, revolutionize American foreign policy, pull out of the Middle East, etc |
| 08:33.32 | Charles_Bot | Again, the historical record isn't on your side on this one |
| 08:34.11 | Technobliterator | yeah, because once he got in, he was too cowardly to oppose the Bush neocons |
| 08:34.19 | Technobliterator | who had put that in place |
| 08:34.34 | Charles_Bot | Neocons don't... exist... anymore |
| 08:34.57 | Charles_Bot | That's an anachronous statement |
| 08:35.13 | Charles_Bot | There isn't a 1:1 correlation between what a candidate says on the trail and what he will do in office. It's more like a 1:Z correlation |
| 08:35.33 | Charles_Bot | In that the difference is not in terms of scale, but in terms of kind |
| 08:35.39 | Technobliterator | I mean, it's extremely clear based on who they pick in their cabinet |
| 08:35.45 | Technobliterator | and we already know who he'll pick |
| 08:35.50 | Technobliterator | more Bush neocons |
| 08:35.57 | Charles_Bot | If you listened to his concession speech, you'd see that already |
| 08:36.01 | Charles_Bot | Again |
| 08:36.03 | Charles_Bot | Techno |
| 08:36.09 | Charles_Bot | Neocons don't exist anymore |
| 08:37.31 | ImpyDroid | Do not be such a definition Nazi hom |
| 08:37.35 | ImpyDroid | *hon |
| 08:37.45 | Charles_Bot | The term neoconservative is historically located in the Bush administration to refer to a tightly-knit faction of conservatives with muscular foreign policy outlooks and a prestige-driven worldview |
| 08:37.59 | ImpyDroid | And we are not political scientists to know that |
| 08:38.08 | Charles_Bot | Then don't use the term |
| 08:38.09 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormydroid (59c24729@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.194.71.41) |
| 08:38.15 | ImpyDroid | She does not use the term |
| 08:38.19 | ImpyDroid | She uses the word |
| 08:38.20 | Charles_Bot | And don't wield it with the certainty of fact |
| 08:38.32 | ImpyDroid | There are words, and there are terms derived from words |
| 08:38.43 | Technobliterator | I mean, the foreign policy has basically been the same grotesque foreign policy since Bush |
| 08:38.46 | Technobliterator | it'll only get worse now |
| 08:38.53 | ImpyDroid | She uses the word in its generic meaning, and you can understand her |
| 08:39.02 | ImpyDroid | So it does not matter if she uses proper definition |
| 08:39.04 | Charles_Bot | If Techno were to argue this in front of my political science classes, she'd get laughed off the stage |
| 08:39.17 | ImpyDroid | That is called the "naive picture of the world" in linguistics |
| 08:39.25 | ImpyDroid | Yes but we are not political scientists |
| 08:39.36 | Charles_Bot | And sent back to intro to American history |
| 08:39.41 | ImpyDroid | We are not delving deep here |
| 08:39.57 | Technobliterator | Well, if I had said Trump will win, I would've been laughed off the stage |
| 08:39.57 | Wormydroid | We shoukd listen to our resident political scientist however |
| 08:39.59 | Technobliterator | and I was right |
| 08:41.02 | Charles_Bot | Anyone who says with absolute certainty that one candidate or another is going to win isn't going to be taken seriously |
| 08:41.47 | Wormydroid | Also, you had a lucky guess. Most predictions about the future, especially those without explanation and evidence, are prophesy |
| 08:41.53 | Ghelae | Even astrology makes correct predictions sometimes. |
| 08:42.32 | Charles_Bot | Even going into this week, I was always including "ifs" in my analyses, and scrawling in a hundred things which we know could go wrong to cast doubt on the results that our analytical, theoretical, and empirical tools are giving us |
| 08:44.27 | Charles_Bot | Nate Silver, one of the most reputed statisticians in political science whom nobody ignores, kept reminding everyone that Trump had a 30% chance of winning |
| 08:44.37 | Charles_Bot | And going into great detail how that might happen |
| 08:44.54 | ImpyDroid | Charles_Bot: I remember this guy |
| 08:45.08 | ImpyDroid | I think his predicted chance of winning was even smaller though? |
| 08:45.12 | ImpyDroid | Like 20% |
| 08:45.37 | Charles_Bot | It fluctuated dynamically as polls came in, it's a whole model |
| 08:45.52 | Charles_Bot | The model is now frozen around 70-30 |
| 08:47.11 | Technobliterator | well, irrespective of who won |
| 08:47.13 | Charles_Bot | Most other outlets and aggregators had Trump's chances of winning at 10%, but Silver had come up with a new set of innovations this cycle which expected polling errors across similar states to be correlated. |
| 08:47.18 | Technobliterator | foreign policy would've just been Bush's again anyway |
| 08:47.26 | Technobliterator | it's everything else I am sad about |
| 08:47.40 | Wormydroid | Explain to us why |
| 08:47.49 | Charles_Bot | No, again, we have no way of knowing that |
| 08:47.59 | Charles_Bot | Me or her? |
| 08:48.10 | Wormydroid | Techno |
| 08:48.15 | Technobliterator | it's obvious, Wormy |
| 08:48.19 | Technobliterator | you just need to look at it |
| 08:48.21 | Technobliterator | it's the same thing |
| 08:48.25 | Charles_Bot | (It's not) |
| 08:48.27 | Technobliterator | more torture, more ridiculous interventionism |
| 08:48.53 | Technobliterator | any foreign policy that isn't "pull out of the middle east completely and stop arming the region" at this point is just irrational |
| 08:49.00 | Charles_Bot | (There's nothing obvious about any of this) |
| 08:49.22 | Technobliterator | Obama's foreign policy was only better than Bush's on two points |
| 08:49.26 | Technobliterator | the Cuba deal and the Iran deal |
| 08:49.29 | Technobliterator | everything else was the same thing |
| 08:49.40 | Charles_Bot | Uh |
| 08:50.08 | Charles_Bot | That's only kind of true, you're drawing the wrong conclusions and lacking a lot of information on that point |
| 08:50.09 | Wormydroid | This is your internal dialogue though, not an explanarion built from analysis and evidence. Like I saud about explanationless predictions being worse |
| 08:50.14 | ImpyDroid | Just gotta say, I do not see a reason why Trump would be less militarist |
| 08:50.20 | ImpyDroid | So for once Jo is right |
| 08:50.29 | ImpyDroid | There is always a maybe but she is probably right |
| 08:50.43 | Technobliterator | I mean, he had drone strikes which kill civillians 90% of the time |
| 08:50.44 | Charles_Bot | Because the United States is not militarist.... |
| 08:50.56 | Technobliterator | and kept up a bloated military budget |
| 08:51.08 | ImpyDroid | hence *less* militarist |
| 08:51.43 | Charles_Bot | Alright, evidently my defining what that actually means doesn't help |
| 08:51.53 | Charles_Bot | What do you mean by militarist? |
| 08:53.04 | Liquid_Ink | Perhaps jingoistic is a better phrase? |
| 08:53.37 | Charles_Bot | Maybe, though I'm going to need that defined as well |
| 08:53.50 | Wormydroid | Like Charles said, his personality may and probably will have to change aftet campaign |
| 08:53.52 | Liquid_Ink | Actually, the US counts as both |
| 08:54.30 | ImpyDroid | Charles_Bot: Having a proactive interventionist foreign policy |
| 08:54.33 | ImpyDroid | That is what I mean |
| 08:54.36 | Liquid_Ink | Militarism means they believe they need a strong military and be prepared to use it aggressively to defend their policies. Which is true. |
| 08:54.46 | ImpyDroid | Maybe this is not militarist per some precise defintiom |
| 08:54.52 | Charles_Bot | Okay, that I can work with |
| 08:54.54 | ImpyDroid | But this is what we meant |
| 08:55.04 | Liquid_Ink | Jingoism is an aggressive foreign policiy; bombings and invasions |
| 08:55.19 | ImpyDroid | Liquid_Ink: Isn't it radical patriotism? |
| 08:55.20 | Technobliterator | they basically use it to be terrorists |
| 08:55.28 | Technobliterator | killing civillians 90% of the time |
| 08:55.37 | Technobliterator | then wondering why Islamic terrorists exist |
| 08:55.44 | Charles_Bot | Again Techno |
| 08:55.53 | Charles_Bot | You're missing so much of the bigger picture |
| 08:56.04 | Technobliterator | Please explain to me what part of what I just said is wrong |
| 08:56.19 | NeonPanda | Anyone else had an imaginary button of popcorn handy since Charles and Techno started going at it? |
| 08:56.19 | Technobliterator | If you kill civillians 90% of the time with ridiculous drone strikes, what do you expect to happen? |
| 08:56.24 | ImpyDroid | Then again Trump promised to have a less proactive policy |
| 08:56.27 | NeonPanda | bucket* |
| 08:56.29 | NeonPanda | not button |
| 08:57.03 | Charles_Bot | Because that's a common sense argument relying on decontextualized facts |
| 08:57.18 | Charles_Bot | Not an actual foreign policy |
| 08:57.27 | Technobliterator | What context is needed? |
| 08:57.39 | Technobliterator | Drone strikes kill civillians 90% of the time |
| 08:57.44 | Technobliterator | You can't complicate that further |
| 08:57.46 | Technobliterator | It's just criminal |
| 08:58.26 | ImpyDroid | Yeah but they are not the only people doing that |
| 08:58.29 | ImpyDroid | We do that too |
| 08:58.33 | ImpyDroid | Saudis doo |
| 08:58.35 | ImpyDroid | *do |
| 08:58.36 | Liquid_Ink | It's still wrong. |
| 08:58.39 | Technobliterator | That doesn't make those governments better, Imp |
| 08:58.43 | Technobliterator | "They do it too" is not an argument |
| 08:58.54 | Charles_Bot | You can locate drones in Obama'a foreign policy, given life by something much bigger that is -actually- characteristic about how Obama has been forced to use American power: retrenchment |
| 08:59.03 | ImpyDroid | I am not defending Americans hur |
| 08:59.07 | ImpyDroid | Just saying |
| 08:59.17 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormydroid_ (80f30290@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.243.2.144) |
| 08:59.21 | Charles_Bot | Neither am I, nor am I defending Trump |
| 08:59.49 | Charles_Bot | I'm just defending what political science is able to know and what it doesn't |
| 09:00.01 | NeonPanda | I'm just finding this rather entertaining because for once I'm not involved, |
| 09:00.02 | ImpyDroid | So Charles is trying to say that America is growing weaker |
| 09:00.06 | NeonPanda | it's quite hilarious from the outside perspective |
| 09:00.08 | ImpyDroid | In terms of foreign policy |
| 09:00.29 | Charles_Bot | God damnit why did I think throwing that word out would help |
| 09:00.31 | Charles_Bot | Okay |
| 09:00.33 | Charles_Bot | Fuck |
| 09:00.36 | Charles_Bot | Let's do this |
| 09:00.41 | NeonPanda | it's getting better and better |
| 09:00.53 | ImpyDroid | No I mean it makes sense |
| 09:00.58 | NeonPanda | now I see why my friends stir me up so much, I'm usually the Charles in this equation |
| 09:01.05 | Charles_Bot | American foreign policy tends to oscillate between two kinds of presidencies |
| 09:01.25 | Charles_Bot | Retrenchers on one hand, maximalists on the other |
| 09:01.35 | Liquid_Ink | "conquer" presidencies and "occupy" presidencies. |
| 09:01.47 | Wormydroid_ | Brb lecture |
| 09:02.05 | Charles_Bot | Not quite |
| 09:02.15 | Charles_Bot | I'll explain in detail |
| 09:04.50 | Liquid_Ink | Honestly I can't wait to see if he can actually build the wall |
| 09:04.59 | ImpyDroid | Charles_Bot: "Fuck let's turtle" and "FUCK EVERYONE AHAHAHA" |
| 09:05.55 | Charles_Bot | This is a quirk of the American psychology, society, culture, institutions, etc, why this is the case actually isn't that important (that's a whole other topic), but it has gone something like this since the Cold War: (1) There is a massive crisis in American foreign policy. It is a stone in the beehive moment, causing (2) the whole of American society to |
| 09:05.55 | Charles_Bot | obsessively reevaluate everything it knows about power, the world, its own doctrines, etc, and to come to the conclusion that (3) this new challenge needs to be addressed decisively and immediately with all of the resources and strength that the US can muster |
| 09:06.01 | NeonPanda | can it be built? absolutely. would building it be both counterproductive and up-fucking everything in the process? yeah |
| 09:07.08 | Liquid_Ink | How will he build it with tax cuts? Would he actually intimidate Mexico into paying for it. |
| 09:07.45 | NeonPanda | I never said it could practically be built, I said that it could be built, as in it's physically possible to build |
| 09:08.10 | Charles_Bot | It's pedal to the metal, all chips on the table, all or nothing. Maximalist presidents are acutely aware of the short attention spans of their American publics, so they go in full force to try and get the job done quickly, well, and without delay. Most importantly, they realize that if the job is going to get done at all, the US is going to have to do it |
| 09:08.10 | Charles_Bot | itself |
| 09:08.52 | Charles_Bot | Historically, allies haven't been on board with American maximalist programs, leading the United States to go it alone |
| 09:08.55 | Liquid_Ink | Neon: But economically speaking. Whether it could physically exist was never in question. |
| 09:09.08 | Charles_Bot | Following me so far, or are we really stuck on the wall thing? |
| 09:09.21 | NeonPanda | oh economically speaking there's no practical way to get it done |
| 09:09.27 | NeonPanda | Charles: we're having a side convo |
| 09:09.27 | Charles_Bot | Yep |
| 09:09.35 | Charles_Bot | We're stuck on the wall thing |
| 09:10.10 | ImpyDroid | I do follow |
| 09:10.18 | NeonPanda | rude much? |
| 09:10.18 | Charles_Bot | Technobliterator? |
| 09:11.21 | Technobliterator | I follow |
| 09:12.06 | Liquid_Ink | Charles: Sorry, I was listening but I was talking while waiting for you to finish. |
| 09:12.16 | Charles_Bot | Alright. Presidents with this approach: Truman, Kennedy, Johnson (despite himself), Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush |
| 09:12.20 | Charles_Bot | No problem, sorry |
| 09:12.48 | Charles_Bot | Now what tends to happen with these periods is that the US overdoes it |
| 09:14.31 | Charles_Bot | It gets overcommitted to something. Whether it's the Korean or Vietnam wars, or nationbuilding in Iraq and Afghanistan, these presidents find themselves trapped by their own maximalism, overextended, and totally on an unsustainable and destructive course |
| 09:14.50 | ImpyDroid | So it is the vicious circle of Americans being idiots |
| 09:15.06 | ImpyDroid | *a vicious |
| 09:15.43 | Charles_Bot | Well the thing is that, in its grand strokes, American foreign policy has been extremely successful and consistent from 1945 to now |
| 09:16.08 | ImpyDroid | Not going to argue with that |
| 09:17.14 | Charles_Bot | But there are snares and traps which drain American resources, prestige, and self-confidence. Further, American thinking about various issues, crises, and the nature and function of American power, is what changes dramatically from phase to phase |
| 09:17.34 | Charles_Bot | It's a lot about perception and how the nation perceives itself |
| 09:17.57 | Charles_Bot | That's where retrenchers come in with names like Eisenhower, Nixon, Carter, and Obama |
| 09:20.06 | Charles_Bot | Retrenchers believe that America is stuck in a quagmire of its own creation, that its arrogance and overreach has put it in a position where its bleeding resource And goodwill with no end in sight. The retrencher comes in and ends wars and occupations, pulls back American investments and power, and attempts to put American foreign policy on surer, more |
| 09:20.06 | Charles_Bot | sustainable footing |
| 09:21.04 | ImpyDroid | Aaand? We are not sure to which camp Trump will belong |
| 09:21.14 | Charles_Bot | They have a very clear distrust for overt uses of power and will always try the cheaper option, relying on allies, diplomacy, goodwill, careful planning, careful balancing, and cheap power tools |
| 09:21.36 | Charles_Bot | They cut military budgets and attempt to give the US room to recover |
| 09:21.39 | Charles_Bot | But in so doing |
| 09:21.44 | Charles_Bot | They overdo it |
| 09:21.47 | ImpyDroid | And he will not be less militarist than Obama for sure |
| 09:22.07 | ImpyDroid | So our point stands despite you providing greater insight on the situation |
| 09:22.30 | Technobliterator | so, Obama was a retrencher, just not nearly enough of one |
| 09:22.42 | Charles_Bot | And as the years wear on, they become too reluctant to use power, too withdrawn, too bound in the web of retrenchment that they created for themselves |
| 09:22.55 | Technobliterator | both candidates promised to be maximalists, though? |
| 09:23.06 | Charles_Bot | And this causes a crisis in American thinking as they begin to believe themselves to be declining |
| 09:23.09 | Charles_Bot | And bam |
| 09:23.24 | Charles_Bot | In comes the maximalist to transform everything and the cycle begins anew |
| 09:23.44 | Charles_Bot | Yep, both Clinton and Trump were maximalists |
| 09:24.16 | Charles_Bot | And Obama is a retrencher, and was too much of one |
| 09:24.43 | Charles_Bot | American foreign policy is pretty much stretched to its limit right now and completely and totally bound up in its own blunders |
| 09:25.25 | Technobliterator | How was Obama too much of a retrencher when he had drone strikes that kill civillians 90% of the time? |
| 09:25.44 | Technobliterator | And I thought the Iran deal and the Cuba deal were successful |
| 09:25.49 | Technobliterator | of course, the Iran deal is done now, but yeah |
| 09:26.11 | Charles_Bot | But I bring in these conceptual categories to make something abundantly clear: retrenchers and maximalists both use military power in order to protect the same interests, the same commitments, the same global system of security and economic exchange that everyone depends on |
| 09:26.29 | Charles_Bot | Except they do it very differently |
| 09:27.45 | Charles_Bot | Bush did it (dumly, we agree on this), with full-on invasions and concerted uses of all the different power tools in his arsenal. Obama was forced to maintain the same alliances with fewer tools and less tolerance to use them. |
| 09:28.09 | Charles_Bot | Hence, drones, in order to keep fighting the war on terror |
| 09:29.08 | Charles_Bot | Eisenhower tried to use nuclear weapons in order to defend peripheral interests when he couldn't use conventional military power because it was too expensive in lives and materiel |
| 09:29.48 | Liquid_Ink | Where did he want to use them? |
| 09:29.59 | Liquid_Ink | Didn't Nixon want to nuke North Vietnam? |
| 09:30.16 | Charles_Bot | I'm not sure about that |
| 09:30.31 | Charles_Bot | Let me get a book off my shelf and I'll check for you |
| 09:33.15 | Wormydroid_ | Test |
| 09:34.14 | Charles_Bot | Found the page |
| 09:37.13 | Charles_Bot | He used them to keep the islands of Quemoy from falling to the PRC |
| 09:38.10 | Charles_Bot | In other words, to defend Taiwan |
| 09:38.16 | Liquid_Ink | Oh so he didn't use them as in nuke anyone; he just waggled them around threateningly? |
| 09:38.27 | Charles_Bot | Oh of course |
| 09:38.30 | ImpyDroid | Duh |
| 09:38.43 | Charles_Bot | The United States has only used nukes twice and that's in 1945 |
| 09:39.43 | Charles_Bot | And he considered waggling them around for many, many more occasions than other presidents |
| 09:39.53 | Liquid_Ink | I knew he didn't actually use them, I was just confused on your wording |
| 09:40.04 | Charles_Bot | Alright, my bad |
| 09:40.10 | Charles_Bot | Apologies |
| 09:40.51 | Technobliterator | well, very likely waggling them around now |
| 09:41.10 | Charles_Bot | Not really, that's no longer a thing |
| 09:41.28 | Charles_Bot | Obama lives, or at least tries to live, in a post-power politics world |
| 09:42.04 | Charles_Bot | And he's, in his mind, defending that from forces who are trying to bring back parochialism and zero-sum logic into the 21st century |
| 09:42.47 | Wormydroid_ | Was now :> |
| 09:43.00 | Charles_Bot | He's still president |
| 09:43.11 | Charles_Bot | Trump won't be sworn in until January |
| 09:43.21 | Charles_Bot | Trump is President-Elect |
| 09:43.21 | Wormydroid_ | Right |
| 09:44.33 | Charles_Bot | So ultimately, the point I was trying to make is that there's a larger picture here that make all of these pieces fit and make sense |
| 09:47.26 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapPlayer (b164faee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.100.250.238) |
| 09:47.27 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapPlayer] by ChanServ |
| 09:47.38 | Wormydroid_ | Hi |
| 09:47.47 | OluapPlayer | Hi |
| 09:47.59 | Charles_Bot | And it's a very useful theory for understanding how trump might approach the presidency with a different way of thinking about the US's role in the world. But maximalists are also incredibly different from each other. Kennedy implemented maximalism "with a backdoor," having absolutely no plan but to keep all of his options open, especially the ability to |
| 09:47.59 | Charles_Bot | retreat. Johnson was a retrencher at heart, but was cornered by his advisors into continuing the Vietnam war with every resource he could throw at it. Reagan's innovation was to imagine that the Cold War could be won, not just fought indefinitely. |
| 09:48.24 | OluapPlayer | I knew I was gonna gonna arrive to this |
| 09:48.28 | OluapPlayer | don't know what I expected |
| 09:48.38 | Liquid_Ink | Is it a problem? |
| 09:49.01 | OluapPlayer | To me, yes |
| 09:49.20 | Charles_Bot | Bush began as a retrencher, but emerged a unilateralist almost out of principle, as if American prestige depended on its ability to act freely |
| 09:49.27 | OluapPlayer | If anyone needs me I'll be on Steam |
| 09:49.50 | Technobliterator | ...:V |
| 09:50.10 | Wormydroid_ | Hm |
| 09:50.37 | Charles_Bot | The theory doesn't tell us how he will act as president, or what policies he will implement. But it does hint to a general direction as to how he will think about American power |
| 09:50.57 | Charles_Bot | And the problems facing it |
| 09:51.00 | Charles_Bot | And that's in an expansive way |
| 09:51.36 | Technobliterator | Holy fuck, Trump's being respectful in his victory speech |
| 09:51.38 | Technobliterator | and calling for unity |
| 09:51.40 | Technobliterator | this is surreal |
| 09:51.43 | Charles_Bot | Yep |
| 09:52.08 | Charles_Bot | That's why I'm telling you that the presidency is fundamentally different from running for it |
| 09:52.14 | Charles_Bot | Now you need to govern |
| 09:52.31 | Charles_Bot | And governing is very, very different from running for an office |
| 09:52.54 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator: Show me |
| 09:53.04 | ImpyDroid | And yeah now he is going to chicken out |
| 09:53.18 | Technobliterator | I still doubt that he will be anything other than Bush 2.0, but |
| 09:53.18 | Liquid_Ink | I think it's worth keeping in mind that while he got in on an anti-establishment message, as a corporate billionaire he is very much part of the establishment. A rogue element, but still part of it. |
| 09:53.22 | Technobliterator | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgaiYTjHhpI |
| 09:53.25 | Technobliterator | TYT's reaction |
| 09:53.36 | Charles_Bot | Oh god |
| 09:53.39 | Charles_Bot | TYT |
| 09:54.11 | Technobliterator | I'm sure there's a video on another channel though |
| 09:54.28 | Charles_Bot | I'm not sure the "establishment" has much value as an analytical tool |
| 09:55.41 | Charles_Bot | It's a label, a generalized imaginary that has been created and applied to candidates, or appropriated by candidates. It has symbolic power and means something to a popular audience |
| 09:56.00 | Charles_Bot | But as an actual analytic tool, it's blunt and hides more than it reveals |
| 09:56.35 | Technobliterator | And yet, they were far closer to being correct than the vast majority of outlets |
| 09:57.29 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator: ...Are you watching Young Turks |
| 09:57.44 | Technobliterator | I am watching their reaction to the speech, yes |
| 09:57.50 | Charles_Bot | ... keeping in mind that the major outlets (barring the infotainment ones) were going off of what we in PS were telling them |
| 09:58.07 | Technobliterator | yeah, incorrectly |
| 09:58.37 | Charles_Bot | And I explained to you earlier why Trump was able to win while only being predicted to win 30% of the time |
| 09:59.29 | Charles_Bot | What's important is the methodology, sources, and focus of a particular outlet/news source |
| 09:59.42 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator: Oh God he is so pathetic here |
| 09:59.54 | ImpyDroid | It is like they sucked off all the fun from him |
| 10:00.15 | Technobliterator | it's so sad if his whole presidency is like this |
| 10:00.23 | Technobliterator | there won't even be entertainment value |
| 10:00.33 | Charles_Bot | ... |
| 10:00.38 | Charles_Bot | I give up |
| 10:00.42 | Technobliterator | literally the only positive |
| 10:00.43 | Technobliterator | is gone |
| 10:00.50 | Charles_Bot | Techno is irrational |
| 10:00.51 | ImpyDroid | Charles_Bot: Hm? |
| 10:01.13 | Charles_Bot | No way to persuade her with rational arguments or evidence |
| 10:02.34 | Charles_Bot | Again. There is reason to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. |
| 10:02.45 | Technobliterator | I mean, I was right twice |
| 10:02.48 | Charles_Bot | He is the legitimately elected president of the United States |
| 10:02.52 | Technobliterator | when no one listened to me |
| 10:03.01 | Charles_Bot | That means nothing, Techno |
| 10:03.08 | Technobliterator | yeah, just like it meant nothing earlier |
| 10:03.12 | Technobliterator | Trump would never win, right? |
| 10:03.20 | Charles_Bot | I never said that |
| 10:03.44 | Charles_Bot | Nobody who knows what they're talking about would ever say that |
| 10:04.10 | Charles_Bot | Nobody would ever say with certainty that he would win either |
| 10:04.28 | Technobliterator | I'm just past the point of being talked down to |
| 10:04.31 | Technobliterator | by literally everyone |
| 10:04.34 | Technobliterator | when I was right twice |
| 10:04.44 | Charles_Bot | You're in my field Techno |
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| 10:05.43 | Charles_Bot | If I tried to tell you how to code a linked list, you would be slapping me around because I haven't the slightest clue what I'm doing |
| 10:05.57 | Charles_Bot | And I shouldn't be telling a CS person how to do their job |
| 10:06.37 | Charles_Bot | Even if I did manage to somehow code a linked list twice |
| 10:08.10 | Technobliterator | I would not be slapping you around even if you didn't code a linked list once |
| 10:08.26 | Technobliterator | I don't believe in talking down to people |
| 10:08.45 | Technobliterator | I have been guilty of it in the past, and regret it |
| 10:08.47 | Charles_Bot | But you would be teaching me how to do it, right? |
| 10:08.58 | Charles_Bot | And would expect me to listen |
| 10:09.12 | Technobliterator | If you wanted to learn, I would |
| 10:09.39 | Technobliterator | Anyway, I am going to go to the gym now to cool off |
| 10:09.45 | Charles_Bot | And I would be right to listen because you would have a lot to teach me |
| 10:09.46 | Technobliterator | I apologise for frustrating you |
| 10:10.00 | Technobliterator | but this thing stressed me out a lot |
| 10:10.07 | Charles_Bot | Me too |
| 10:11.22 | Charles_Bot | In any case, all I wanted to say is that there's reason to give Trump the benefit of the doubt at this moment in time |
| 10:11.58 | Technobliterator | You were right, I was being irrational, deliberately |
| 10:12.12 | Technobliterator | I am expecting the worst to happen so I don't get too disappointed when it does |
| 10:12.16 | Technobliterator | It's how my pessimism works |
| 10:12.22 | Charles_Bot | I used to do that too |
| 10:12.35 | Charles_Bot | You're never disappointed, always surprised |
| 10:13.02 | Charles_Bot | Makes a grim-seeming world that much more exciting, or at least not as depressing |
| 10:13.02 | Technobliterator | anyway, I'll speak later |
| 10:13.49 | Charles_Bot | Sorry for speaking down to you, it wasn't my intention |
| 10:14.29 | Charles_Bot | He's the president elect of the United States, who won in a free and fair election, and who declared his intention to unify not only the Republican Party, but the nation, and has done something incredible which is to declare his intention to work with those who snubbed him during the race |
| 10:14.41 | Charles_Bot | I accept that he won, fair and square |
| 10:15.43 | Charles_Bot | And that's how our system works, and it's the only way it can work |
| 10:16.39 | Charles_Bot | Until he royally screws up and breaks it, which is a distinct possibility, I accept him |
| 10:17.06 | Charles_Bot | Even though I voted rather pointedly for the other gal |
| 10:17.10 | Charles_Bot | I hope that makes sense? |
| 10:18.35 | Charles_Bot | ImpyDroid2? |
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| 10:23.15 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-119-152-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 10:25.57 | Charles_Bot | "As the realization worked its way around the planet that Donald J. Trump will become the next president of the United States, global investors reacted as if the world had caught fire." |
| 10:26.04 | Charles_Bot | This on the other hand |
| 10:26.35 | ImpyDroid | Charles_Bot: Yeah I do not argue with that |
| 10:29.52 | Charles_Bot | I'm going to lose hundreds of dollars aren't I |
| 10:32.30 | Wormydroid | I'm more worried about a loss of unity, liberal and tolerant values in the Anglosphere and West, while tensions rise in Russia. I don't know what will happen, whether it will get worse or better, but that isn't reassuring |
| 10:32.46 | Wormydroid | *rise with Russia |
| 10:37.05 | Wormydroid | Brb |
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| 11:01.55 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid2 (~Anders@195.19.236.70) |
| 11:02.57 | ImpyDroid2 | Wormydroid: Did you get my message? |
| 11:10.04 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
| 11:10.20 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 11:18.12 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@195.19.236.70) |
| 11:19.23 | ImpyDroid | Wormy_: Just curious, were anyone in your family watching the elections? |
| 11:23.57 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:25.00 | Wormy_ | "Year of bad hair styles" http://imgur.com/gallery/gQprsKo |
| 11:26.25 | Wormy_ | Most of my family are quite working class style conservative |
| 11:27.03 | Wormy_ | though I've been brought up quite liberal / anarchistically |
| 11:30.10 | Wormy_ | although we laugh at lefties sometimes |
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| 11:41.04 | Hachiman | CAN'T STUMP |
| 11:42.14 | Liquid_Ink | Hello |
| 11:42.26 | Technobliterator | Well, Hachi, your guy won :o |
| 11:42.52 | Hachiman | Wish I'd made bets now hur |
| 11:43.15 | Hachiman | I wouldn't call him "my guy" so much as "the lesser of two evils" although that part is subjective for many people |
| 11:43.42 | Wallrios | Hachiman: The madman that will not touch my country |
| 11:43.50 | Wallrios | That is what he is for me |
| 11:44.20 | Hachiman | Meanwhile Hillary was looking for an excuse to stir shit with Russia |
| 11:44.52 | Technobliterator | Fair enough |
| 11:45.02 | Technobliterator | So, good news, no Russian work |
| 11:45.03 | Technobliterator | war* |
| 11:45.07 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-55-152-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 11:45.09 | Technobliterator | Bad news, climate change |
| 11:45.20 | ImpyDroid | Yeah that is bad |
| 11:45.44 | ImpyDroid | sjsj |
| 11:46.05 | Hachiman | There are SJWs and libtards parading in the streets |
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| 11:46.23 | Technobliterator | Well, one could argue that a Russian war would be worse for climate change, I guess? |
| 11:46.42 | Hachiman | Only if it went nuclear |
| 11:46.50 | Technobliterator | Also, I will state again I hate dismissive terms like that, but eh |
| 11:47.36 | Hachiman | Alright; there are people protesting in the street "Fuck Donald Trump", which certainly shows off how mature and ready for democracy they are |
| 11:47.37 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Makes sense |
| 11:47.46 | ImpyDroid | I mean they show their protest |
| 11:47.49 | ImpyDroid | They have the right to |
| 11:47.56 | ImpyDroid | Maybe a bit silly but they do |
| 11:48.22 | Hachiman | I wouldn't be surprised if we see an online petition to call for a second election soon |
| 11:48.29 | Hachiman | It was the same with Brexit |
| 11:49.02 | Worm_hair | http://imgur.com/gallery/tk0YD |
| 11:49.19 | Wallrios | Hachiman: kek |
| 11:49.24 | Wallrios | Then again, if Hill won |
| 11:49.31 | Wallrios | There would be protests too |
| 11:49.35 | Wallrios | Perhaps even more violent |
| 11:50.00 | Hachiman | Honestly, American liberals and leftists and whatnot are some of the most aggressive people around right now |
| 11:51.08 | Wallrios | Yeah but at least they do not have guns |
| 11:51.10 | Hachiman | And they lump everybody who voted for Trump as being misogynistic, racist, and xenophobic |
| 11:51.18 | Hachiman | They're Americans; of course they have guns |
| 11:51.23 | Worm_hair | https://twitter.com/AmandaMarcotte/status/796032737857699841/photo/1 |
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| 11:51.28 | Wallrios | Less guns than Trump supporters |
| 11:51.38 | Gaseous_Ink | What did I miss |
| 11:51.57 | Gaseous_Ink | I lost connection when Hachi called Trump the lesser of two evils |
| 11:52.19 | Hachiman | Just me bringing up the fact Hillary's supporters are protesting in the streets right now |
| 11:52.27 | Hachiman | Calling for Trump's blood |
| 11:52.44 | Wallrios | That is interesting |
| 11:52.45 | Gaseous_Ink | I see |
| 11:52.57 | Wallrios | TBH I do not understand why you guys are all so fussed about it |
| 11:53.02 | Wallrios | We are not in America |
| 11:53.19 | Hachiman | No but the UK is allied to the US; plus it's entertaining to watch |
| 11:53.27 | Gaseous_Ink | Impy, we live in American client states. |
| 11:53.29 | Wallrios | So am I but I am not fussed |
| 11:53.31 | Gaseous_Ink | I explained this. |
| 11:53.39 | Technobliterator | Hachiman, my bad, I thought you were talking about different protestors |
| 11:53.41 | Wallrios | I am not having a stroke |
| 11:53.44 | Technobliterator | No, I agree that those guys are stupid |
| 11:53.50 | Wallrios | Nor being angry |
| 11:54.00 | Wallrios | For once I am the chillest person in the room |
| 11:54.05 | Gaseous_Ink | Noice |
| 11:54.14 | Hachiman | I'm honestly more relieved than anything |
| 11:54.22 | Technobliterator | I had a discussion the other day where people said the Republicans should've rigged the primary so Trump lost, and that there should've been no referendum on the EU |
| 11:54.23 | Wallrios | I am a bit sad |
| 11:54.24 | Technobliterator | I lost it completely |
| 11:54.25 | Wallrios | It was fun |
| 11:54.29 | Technobliterator | they're basically arguing against democracy |
| 11:54.41 | Hachiman | Aye |
| 11:54.46 | Wallrios | Now the great fun times are over |
| 11:55.08 | Wallrios | We will no longer see a crazy old man shouting populist rhetoric |
| 11:55.09 | Gaseous_Ink | Now come the great fun times of seeing him shirk his campaign promises. |
| 11:55.14 | Wallrios | ^ That |
| 11:55.21 | Wallrios | The guy ain't going to be the same |
| 11:55.26 | Hachiman | I at least want a wall |
| 11:55.29 | Wallrios | He is going to be all serious and reserved |
| 11:55.37 | Wallrios | Same here |
| 11:55.41 | Technobliterator | I mean, I kind of hope he only lasts a time |
| 11:55.43 | Technobliterator | a term |
| 11:55.48 | Wallrios | Let us see if he builds one |
| 11:56.09 | Gaseous_Ink | There are fifty million voters waiting for Trump to lift them out of poverty, and going to realise he's only there for himself. It's my hope this will totally defeat right-wing populism world wide |
| 11:56.10 | Wallrios | Damn this year was fun |
| 11:56.13 | Worm_hair | I was morbidly curious to see a Trump victory, tbh |
| 11:56.15 | Hachiman | It's not gonna affect the American economy none because he's gonna make those Mexicans pay for it |
| 11:56.24 | Technobliterator | that, or the Democrats wisen up, get actually good senate candidates, and then we have SOME hope and prayer that cliamte change is fixed |
| 11:56.37 | Wallrios | Brexit, the American elections, all that |
| 11:56.53 | Wallrios | Hell the last few years were really interesting |
| 11:57.08 | Wallrios | But also terrifying |
| 11:57.31 | Worm_hair | ^ |
| 11:58.11 | Hachiman | I reckon Trump actually won the Presidency through the use of his occult connections and the implementation of meme magic |
| 11:58.11 | Gaseous_Ink | Pauline Hanson (Australia's local fascist) is having a party in parliament right now. |
| 11:58.46 | Hachiman | Also, Oluap's not going to be on today specifically because of the inevitable talk about the topic of Trump |
| 11:58.59 | Gaseous_Ink | Yeah, he showed up earlier. |
| 11:59.09 | Wallrios | Hachiman: KEK BE PRAISED |
| 11:59.11 | Gaseous_Ink | He said he'll be on steam if you want him. |
| 11:59.16 | Wallrios | TO HIM WE OFFER OUR MEMES |
| 11:59.22 | Hachiman | I have him on Skype so |
| 11:59.32 | Wallrios | You have Kek on Skype? |
| 11:59.37 | Worm_hair | Last couple of years made politics interesting for me |
| 11:59.47 | Hachiman | Wallrios: GIVE GRACE TO OUR LORD AND SAVIOR, PEPE THE FROG |
| 11:59.57 | Wallrios | LAILLAHA IL KEK |
| 12:00.08 | Hachiman | THE SYMBOL OF WHITE SUPREMACY AND THE ETERNAL ICON OF THE AMERICAN PATRIARCHY |
| 12:00.09 | Wallrios | THERE IS NO GOD BUT KEK |
| 12:00.13 | Gaseous_Ink | Seriously, Trump won because he used pro-worker rhetoric, and spoke to all the small towns, while Hillary passed them over. Which means that Bernie Sanders would probably have beaten Trump had he won the primaries. |
| 12:00.14 | Technobliterator | I am partly smug |
| 12:00.15 | Wallrios | AND PEPE IS THE PROPHET OF KEK |
| 12:00.23 | Technobliterator | that the last few decades of neoliberalism |
| 12:00.28 | Technobliterator | are biting the establishment in the ass |
| 12:01.26 | Wallrios | Gaseous_Ink: >pro-worker |
| 12:01.30 | Wallrios | >nationalist |
| 12:01.41 | Wallrios | >opposed to the far-left groups |
| 12:01.49 | Wallrios | Wait a minute... |
| 12:01.53 | Hachiman | It's undoubted that Hillary was a plant imo |
| 12:01.55 | Worm_hair | The establishment is dominantly neolib in my opinion |
| 12:01.55 | Technobliterator | Sanders would've won since he won the demographic overwhelmingly that Clinton lost |
| 12:02.03 | Technobliterator | which is the rust belt white working class vote |
| 12:02.07 | Technobliterator | that normally goes Democrat |
| 12:02.10 | Gaseous_Ink | Yes Impy, the Nazi parallels are known to us. |
| 12:02.34 | Hachiman | HE'S GONNA BUILD A DEATH CAMP, AND HE'LL MAKE THE JEWS PAY FOR IT |
| 12:03.38 | Gaseous_Ink | Yeah, something like that |
| 12:03.48 | Gaseous_Ink | Especially how he's scapegoating the muslims |
| 12:04.43 | Hachiman | To be fair, Hillary had a hand in turning the Middle East into a political hotpot long before Trump came to Presidency and as a result killed far more people than Trump could ever hope to |
| 12:05.21 | Technobliterator | She enabled the Bush administration doing that, yes |
| 12:05.21 | Worm_hair | "could ever hope to", we'll see |
| 12:05.58 | Gaseous_Ink | Yeah, we need to condemn Hillary's actions concerning the Middle East, but not underestimate Trump's ability to cause a genocide. |
| 12:06.09 | Gaseous_Ink | Things like this always seem impossible until they happen. |
| 12:06.14 | Hachiman | True |
| 12:06.57 | Technobliterator | I think he will start another illegal war for oil there |
| 12:07.26 | Gaseous_Ink | ISIS gives him a justification in the eyes of the West. |
| 12:07.52 | Technobliterator | I mean, I still doubt that ISIS even exists, personally |
| 12:08.03 | Hachiman | wat |
| 12:08.07 | Hachiman | Care to elaborate? |
| 12:08.33 | Technobliterator | I believe it's just a group that takes credit for a bunch of random terrorists acting on their own |
| 12:08.46 | Gaseous_Ink | Oh, that makes sense |
| 12:09.00 | Gaseous_Ink | And yes, I believe that. But the rebel group in the Middle East definitely exists. |
| 12:09.07 | Technobliterator | Yup |
| 12:09.15 | Hachiman | Hm, I can believe that |
| 12:09.56 | Hachiman | I believe ISIS is a physical entity but its sheer scale is non-existent |
| 12:09.57 | Gaseous_Ink | Since terrorism is basicallly an advertisement, ISIS will take any publicity they can get. |
| 12:10.15 | Gaseous_Ink | Did they once take credit for something that turned out to be an accident? |
| 12:10.36 | Hachiman | They did |
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| 12:15.34 | Gaseous_Ink | ISIS is losing territory very quickly, so I doubt they'll be a credible threat much longer. Unless Turkey's war on the Kurdish allows an ISIS resurgence in Syria. |
| 12:15.36 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator: About ISIS, that is how many terrorist groups work |
| 12:15.53 | ImpyDroid | As a network, without a clear government structure, and as an idea |
| 12:16.14 | Gaseous_Ink | The right-wing will then start using Al-Nusra as their fear mongering tool. |
| 12:17.12 | Technobliterator | yup |
| 12:17.27 | ImpyDroid | Technobliterator: ISIS made themselves more than just a terrorist group, they devoted themselves to an ideal, and if we can't stop them, they will become something else entirely... a legend |
| 12:17.55 | ImpyDroid | Oh wait nobody got that reference nvm |
| 12:18.15 | ImpyDroid | And yeah Russia already uses al-Nusra as a scapegoat |
| 12:20.53 | ImpyDroid | I wonder how Trump will handle Syria |
| 12:22.03 | Gaseous_Ink | Probably by bombing it |
| 12:23.00 | Gaseous_Ink | American foreign policiy is not likely to change |
| 12:23.35 | ImpyDroid | I wonder if Putin will reach an agreement with Trump there |
| 12:23.38 | Gaseous_Ink | Except he'll be a lot more impotent since he's used to getting his own way and can only handle things with lawsuits and tantrums. |
| 12:23.52 | ImpyDroid | I find it unlikely, we need a conflict to keep the war hysteria |
| 12:24.18 | Gaseous_Ink | Of course |
| 12:24.23 | ImpyDroid | But we also need to resolve our issues inside the country |
| 12:24.27 | ImpyDroid | So, 50/50 |
| 12:32.28 | Worm_hair | test |
| 12:34.29 | Worm_hair | Hachiman, Technobliterator: Tram overturned in London, loss of life reported http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37919658 |
| 12:34.36 | Hachiman | Ouch |
| 12:34.39 | Technobliterator | damn |
| 13:16.29 | Hachiman | "Don't be fooled people. All this stuff in America is just to bury the news about the new Toblerone." |
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| 13:22.04 | Monet | http://www.gamesradar.com/mass-effect-andromeda-has-10-collectors-editions-including-a-270-remote-control-space-car-option/ I predicted EA would roll out preorders |
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| 13:42.57 | *** join/#sporewiki dino82_ (52b0ddef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.176.221.239) |
| 13:43.12 | dino82_ | hi |
| 13:49.03 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman" https://vk.com/doc376379833_438025097?hash=58c95cbf10f260cf5e&dl=1478699294c08db3a0eb65113be8&api=1 |
| 13:52.00 | Hachiman | hur |
| 14:02.50 | Tek0516 | So last night wasn't a sleep deprived nightmare then. :P |
| 14:08.08 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid2 (~Anders@host-55-152-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 14:08.53 | *** join/#sporewiki NeonPanda (65b30e25@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.179.14.37) |
| 14:08.59 | NeonPanda | and I'm back |
| 14:09.24 | Tek0516 | Hey NeonPanda |
| 14:10.25 | NeonPanda | Tek0516: got particle lances finally |
| 14:10.36 | NeonPanda | though this playthrough has gotten meh |
| 14:12.12 | Tek0516 | Maybe I'll get a chance to try them out soon. The clustered FE I keep mentioning will definitely make this game interesting very soon now that I've exceeded 20k fleet power. |
| 14:12.31 | NeonPanda | I'm in a federation with three of the other somewhat significant powers in the area, but there was one AI who basically got left alone to the point that I really want to fight them just to see what happens, but I'm pretty sure they can fight all three of us (mainly because I'm like 75% of our combined fleet power( |
| 14:15.37 | Tek0516 | Huh. I haven't had an AI emerge anywhere in the galaxy capable of challenging me, other than the growing alliances and numerous federations. |
| 14:16.39 | Tek0516 | Even after losing half my fleet only three empires were even "equivalent". |
| 14:17.14 | NeonPanda | they've only got like 12-16 planets, but they basically had a fifth of the galaxy to themselves which they've very liberally expanded into |
| 14:18.00 | Tek0516 | Part of the advantage for me was that I ended up getting exactly that as well. |
| 14:18.42 | NeonPanda | they're literally the only ones who match up to me, thing is I'm pretty sure they're like borderline superior to me in fleet strength, and I haven't had anyone weak to pick on |
| 14:18.59 | NeonPanda | so the militarist side has gained me absolutely nothing |
| 14:21.09 | Tek0516 | Yeah |
| 14:25.42 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (97e0b05c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.224.176.92) |
| 14:27.10 | Xho | Violent Sleep of Reason on repeat today |
| 14:52.41 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian|Away (uid97882@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egsqqzpusvtwdliu) |
| 14:52.51 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101 (a85bff65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.168.91.255.101) |
| 14:53.03 | ZF101 | Hello all. |
| 14:53.08 | ZF101 | And God help us all. |
| 14:53.11 | Tek0516 | https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-autonomy.981050/ Ooh, neat. British Empire stuff in HoI4 |
| 14:53.23 | Tek0516 | Hello Cyrannian and ZF101 |
| 14:54.25 | Cyrannian | Hi |
| 14:54.33 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 14:55.50 | ZF101 | Good lord, what has my country come to. |
| 14:58.44 | Tek0516 | Canada's immigration website has been down since last night. :P |
| 14:58.58 | ZF101 | I heard. |
| 14:58.59 | Technobliterator | I wonder how many people will legitimately do it :o |
| 14:59.09 | ZF101 | None, their cowards. |
| 14:59.14 | ZF101 | All to talk and no action. |
| 15:00.04 | Cyrannian | Not that it matters, but Hillary is still leading the popular vote, if that's any consolation http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president |
| 15:00.20 | Xho | Well |
| 15:00.25 | Xho | Get the vaults built and pronto |
| 15:00.31 | Tek0516 | Well Canada is basically what would happen if most of your politicians' "progressive" ideas had been implemented for years or decades. >.> |
| 15:00.35 | Technobliterator | She won the popular vote |
| 15:00.49 | Technobliterator | the electoral college vote went to Trump because it's a stupid system |
| 15:00.59 | Technobliterator | if this doesn't inspire an electoral college change, I don't know what will, really |
| 15:00.59 | ZF101 | I've always hated the Electoral college. |
| 15:01.23 | ZF101 | Yeah, when Trump starts a war, I have several countries in mind. |
| 15:01.47 | ZF101 | Mars seems good this time of year. |
| 15:02.34 | Technobliterator | I mean, he'll probably pick up some country in the Middle East and invade it illegally |
| 15:02.35 | Technobliterator | like Bush did |
| 15:02.57 | Hachiman | Incoming Trumpistan |
| 15:03.29 | Xho | I for one welcome the Deathclaws |
| 15:03.41 | ZF101 | The problem is, we have no clue what he's going to do next. |
| 15:04.04 | ImpyDroid2 | Hachiman: Pussygrab the hinjab |
| 15:04.06 | ImpyDroid2 | &hijab |
| 15:04.09 | Hachiman | kek |
| 15:04.09 | Cyrannian | Technobliterator: http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/03/03/iraqi-army-invades-america-to-liberate-its-people-from-donald-trump/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article |
| 15:04.12 | Hachiman | HE'S GONNA BUILD A WALL |
| 15:04.21 | Hachiman | IT'LL BE THE GREATEST WALL AND HE'LL MAKE THE MEXICANS PAY FOR IT |
| 15:05.01 | Xho | And this guy is a billionaire |
| 15:05.14 | Xho | You'd think he'd have an actual business plan for this wall |
| 15:05.34 | NeonPanda | he's a billionaire by merit of how many times he's been bailed out, tbh |
| 15:06.00 | Xho | Unless the whole campaign was actually a business plan to get into power and he'll do something completely different |
| 15:06.15 | Xho | In that case this guy is actually smart |
| 15:06.58 | ImpyDroid2 | Cyrannian: Wow, look at the comments |
| 15:07.11 | ImpyDroid2 | How come Trump followers have no sense of humour |
| 15:08.05 | Xho | A lack of sense of humour usually correlates with idiocy |
| 15:09.04 | ImpyDroid2 | Xho Hachiman Technobliterator: https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=CfC8Va27Q8I Been listening to this song non stop today |
| 15:09.04 | ZF101 | Impy, it's all a plot by the Liberal Jew media to be all politically correct and all that. |
| 15:09.29 | Technobliterator | at this point, I'm not in the mood |
| 15:09.37 | Hachiman | >Sabaton |
| 15:10.06 | Cyrannian | Yeah, I think I'm going to avoid American politics for the foreseeable future |
| 15:10.26 | ImpyDroid2 | Hachiman: You do not like them? |
| 15:10.38 | Hachiman | I'm honestly not a fan |
| 15:10.44 | Hachiman | Used to be but they got all repetitive for me |
| 15:10.55 | Xho | Nope |
| 15:11.00 | Xho | Not a fan of Sabaton eiter |
| 15:11.02 | ImpyDroid2 | Yeah come to think about their style is kind of repetitive |
| 15:11.21 | Xho | ImpyDroid2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Violent_Sleep_of_Reason |
| 15:11.48 | Xho | Meshuggah predicted this I swear |
| 15:18.01 | ImpyDroid2 | After Brexit and Trump I wonder |
| 15:18.03 | ImpyDroid2 | What is next |
| 15:18.12 | ImpyDroid2 | Merkel overthrown? |
| 15:18.20 | Tek0516 | FFS. I just got handed back a midterm they didn't even finish marking. >.> |
| 15:18.21 | ImpyDroid2 | Japan remilitarises? |
| 15:18.31 | Hachiman | Probably another beloved celebrity dying |
| 15:18.38 | ImpyDroid2 | That is normal |
| 15:19.56 | Xho | Hachiman: Time to start up a dead pool |
| 15:20.37 | ImpyDroid2 | Xho: TRUMP GON GIV IT TO YA |
| 15:25.45 | ImpyDroid2 | Hachiman: Imagine if California tries to secede now after Trump's election |
| 15:25.57 | Hachiman | hur |
| 15:26.40 | NeonPanda | I'm still waiting for the secession of America from Dumbfuckistan |
| 15:26.40 | ImpyDroid2 | The Confederate Socialist States of America |
| 15:26.58 | ImpyDroid2 | NeonPanda: How can you secede from itself? |
| 15:27.01 | Cyrannian | Might as well work on my Apollo story, vote Apollo/Gorf in 2020 guise |
| 15:27.04 | ImpyDroid2 | *one secede from |
| 15:27.11 | NeonPanda | http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq46/arroyocosplay/LOL.jpg for those who don't know what I'm talking about |
| 15:27.39 | ImpyDroid2 | Basically what I am talking about |
| 15:28.13 | ImpyDroid2 | "Gender-Neutral Deity of Any Denomination that Might or Might Not Exist, Save the West" |
| 15:29.02 | Cyrannian | Hachiman: https://www.facebook.com/xavier.bratcher.9/videos/1819752414949402/ |
| 15:31.15 | ImpyDroid2 | Cyrannian: What does the Irish government think about the potential absorption of Ulster? |
| 15:31.42 | ImpyDroid2 | Post-Brexit that is |
| 15:33.21 | Tek0516 | Ugh. I just reas an article defending the Electoral College and cringed a lot. It basically took everything undemocratic about the system and framed it as a good thing. >.< |
| 15:33.48 | NeonPanda | so what exactly is the electoral college? |
| 15:34.09 | Cyrannian | ImpyDroid2: I doubt that will happen any time soon, though the current Irish government isn't the strongest advocate of unification, though through indifference rather than opposition |
| 15:34.22 | ImpyDroid2 | Hachiman: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/california-today-trump-president-kamala-harris-election.html?referer=https://www.google.ru/ Holy shit I thought I was joking |
| 15:34.38 | Tek0516 | NeonPanda: Instead of electing a president you elect people to elect a president |
| 15:34.55 | NeonPanda | that... makes not much sense to me tbh |
| 15:35.34 | Tek0516 | Also in basically every state it's winner takes all. So for example the 55 delegates of california are all given to the person with the most votes, regardlessof margin |
| 15:35.57 | NeonPanda | I see |
| 15:36.27 | NeonPanda | so like rather than all the electors being added up, all the electors of the state are added to whoever won in that state |
| 15:36.46 | Tek0516 | NeonPanda: Basically it's a system made for 18th century society and technology that was also mean to appease smaller states. >.> |
| 15:36.58 | NeonPanda | not surprised |
| 15:37.36 | NeonPanda | like no offence to america but a lot of what I hear from them seems to still be rooted in the 18th century |
| 15:37.59 | ZF101 | Yep, we're backwards as fuck. |
| 15:38.06 | Tek0516 | NeonPanda: Oh, and the electors aren't necessarily to vote for the candidate they were chosen to vote for. |
| 15:38.41 | NeonPanda | so wait... you mean people can vote for someone to vote for a certain candidate, and then they can choose not to vote for that candidate? |
| 15:38.45 | Tek0516 | Except in the few states where it's mandated they can vote for anyone they want to. |
| 15:39.20 | Tek0516 | It's never swayed an election but you can see the problem. |
| 15:39.34 | NeonPanda | how is America still functional as a country at this rate? |
| 15:40.16 | ImpyDroid2 | It isn't |
| 15:40.24 | ImpyDroid2 | As these elections have proven |
| 15:40.38 | Tek0516 | NeonPanda: Also because of the statewide winner takes all, most states are "safe" and as a result the entire election is determined by the half-dozen "swing states". And this is intentionally supported by the parties so they can do less campaigning. |
| 15:41.09 | NeonPanda | for all its flaws, I like the Australian system a lot more now |
| 15:41.24 | NeonPanda | cos we have three different people all telling the government to fuck off at various levels |
| 15:42.03 | Tek0516 | I'm assuming Australia probably uses a Westminster system similar to Canada's? |
| 15:42.32 | NeonPanda | we're based on the british system, yeah |
| 15:42.44 | Technobliterator | With proportional representation and ranked choice voting |
| 15:42.47 | Technobliterator | so infinitely better |
| 15:42.52 | NeonPanda | local, state and federal government, with elected representatives at each level |
| 15:43.06 | Cyrannian | A parliamentary republic with proportional representation ftw |
| 15:43.16 | ImpyDroid2 | Silly Westerns |
| 15:43.19 | ImpyDroid2 | *Westerners |
| 15:43.25 | ImpyDroid2 | With your silly democracy |
| 15:43.28 | ZF101 | Dat sounds like socialist propaganda. |
| 15:43.39 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 15:44.15 | ImpyDroid2 | Monet: The Dark Lord rises |
| 15:44.32 | Monet | I'd rather not talk about it. |
| 15:44.44 | ImpyDroid2 | Come on it is fun |
| 15:45.08 | ZF101 | Not for the American here. |
| 15:45.20 | Tek0516 | I'm fine with the Canadian system but I'd prefer something proportional. Of course now Trudeau is backing out of that promise. >.< |
| 15:45.35 | NeonPanda | for clarity's sake, what do you mean by proportional? |
| 15:46.15 | Tek0516 | Not sure, I think they were doing a whole thing to look into what would be the "best" alternative. |
| 15:46.48 | Tek0516 | Just something other than First Past The Post basically. |
| 15:47.45 | Technobliterator | Trudeau is breaking that promise? |
| 15:47.46 | Technobliterator | Ugh |
| 15:48.03 | ImpyDroid2 | Why? |
| 15:48.06 | ImpyDroid2 | Because it is 2016 |
| 15:48.09 | Tek0516 | Apparently. That's what I've been hearing. |
| 15:48.28 | Technobliterator | I hope he doesn't win reelection if that's the case |
| 15:48.32 | Tek0516 | That was one promise I wanted a lot. >.> |
| 15:48.36 | Technobliterator | that's ridiculous |
| 15:48.49 | Technobliterator | If he breaks his promise on legal marijuana, then wow |
| 15:49.02 | Tek0516 | Well that's definitely going forward AFAIK |
| 15:49.39 | Technobliterator | I would hope so |
| 15:49.41 | Monet | ImpyDroid2: The past two public votes - this and the EU referendum - have said to me that more and more people would rather tear something down to make change than encourage internal reform. |
| 15:50.06 | ImpyDroid2 | Monet: People with more radical opinions win because moderates will not vote |
| 15:50.27 | ImpyDroid2 | What they lack in quantity they make up in quality so to speak |
| 15:50.37 | NeonPanda | which is why voting is mandatory in Australia :P |
| 15:51.01 | Tek0516 | Technobliterator: Well the Conservatives don't want it at all AFAIK. |
| 15:51.15 | Technobliterator | This does not surprise me |
| 15:51.46 | Monet | Two national votes in a row fuelled by anger. I declared the election a complete circus a year ago. This only confirms my point. |
| 15:52.20 | Monet | People aren't interested in the facts any more, only the sensational rhetoric they agree with. |
| 15:53.05 | ImpyDroid2 | NeonPanda: The rest of the world should follow you |
| 15:53.30 | NeonPanda | indeed they should, we will teach them the ways of ordering a bunnings sausage via drone |
| 15:53.31 | ZF101 | "Education is the greatest safe guard for democracy." |
| 15:53.38 | Tek0516 | There is a committee for electoral reform that's supposed to issue its findings by December 1st so we'll see how that goes. |
| 15:56.22 | Tek0516 | Technobliterator: Doesn't help that I think most of the systems work in favour of the liberals more than any of the other two major parties. |
| 15:56.28 | Cyrannian | http://www.politico.com/livestream1 - Hillary's concession speech live :< |
| 15:56.59 | ImpyDroid2 | Cyrannian: "Drat! *hiss*" |
| 15:57.06 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:57.35 | ZF101 | Yeah, best we can do is hunker down and wait out these four, long, looong years. |
| 15:57.44 | ImpyDroid2 | Monet: TBH for me all this seems like part of a greater trend |
| 15:58.10 | NeonPanda | correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the things that the president can't have a criminal history? |
| 15:58.34 | NeonPanda | cos there are a couple of charges being brought against Trump, so there is that one fringe hope |
| 15:58.39 | Monet | NeonPanda: He's never been convicted afaik. |
| 15:58.57 | Cyrannian | Hoping she dons a black cloak and announces that Trump's rebellion has been foiled and that in order to ensure our security and continuing stability... |
| 15:59.01 | NeonPanda | he hasn't been convicted but there's a couple of charges going to trial |
| 15:59.17 | NeonPanda | Cyrannian: I would dig that tbh |
| 16:00.01 | Cyrannian | Black pantsuit rather |
| 16:00.03 | ImpyDroid2 | Cyrannian: Aren't they both Sith tho |
| 16:00.15 | ImpyDroid2 | Who is the Master and who is the Apprentice, I wonder |
| 16:00.37 | Monet | He spends millions a year from his own foundation on litigation. Either charging or defending. But for all I know that could be just another ingredient in this great blurred stew of fiction and reality. |
| 16:00.38 | Cyrannian | Trump is a Hutt, if anything |
| 16:00.48 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Bot (uid94017@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orcmrpatcoenxpxb) |
| 16:01.05 | ImpyDroid2 | Sexual harassment, wealth, orange-ish colour |
| 16:01.10 | ImpyDroid2 | Yeah kind of works |
| 16:01.29 | Charles_Bot | Oh my we're still talking about this |
| 16:01.38 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.41 | Technobliterator | Well |
| 16:01.42 | ImpyDroid2 | What would you expect |
| 16:01.44 | Technobliterator | it's pretty big news |
| 16:02.24 | ZF101 | We Americans have gone from JFK and Eisenhower to this. What the hell happened to this nation. |
| 16:02.29 | Tek0516 | Charles_Bot: Well we had a tangent for a while where we discussed electoral systens in general |
| 16:02.38 | Technobliterator | and FDR |
| 16:02.52 | ZF101 | And Teddy. |
| 16:03.05 | Technobliterator | I know less about Teddy |
| 16:03.43 | Charles_Bot | He was badass |
| 16:04.08 | Tek0516 | I'll just sit (mostly) calmly in Canada and hope for the best. >.> |
| 16:04.26 | ZF101 | He could identify birds by their calls, read a novel a day, and, when boxing grew too much for him, went into Judo for a softer sport. |
| 16:04.37 | Technobliterator | I just hope he wasn't serious about the Paris agreement. I can rest easy then. |
| 16:05.44 | Tek0516 | He hasn't exactly supported fighting climate change so far. I saw something from him about "clean coal" or something. >.> |
| 16:06.11 | Technobliterator | and has surrounded himself by people who also don't believe it's real |
| 16:06.35 | Technobliterator | Well, what do you expect when none of the news outlets bring it up and when it wasn't even a question during the debates |
| 16:06.40 | Technobliterator | thanks oil money |
| 16:11.26 | Monet | ImpyDroid: Trying to look for positives. Last night I killed Deathwing solo. |
| 16:11.30 | Xho | They had Reagan mind you |
| 16:11.41 | Xho | Not exactly a pivotal turn in qualified politics |
| 16:12.51 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5aff20db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.32.219) |
| 16:12.59 | Hachiman | Shitty internet |
| 16:13.00 | ImpyDroid2 | Welcome back |
| 16:13.10 | Xho | goddamn rag break down my shitty intanet |
| 16:14.09 | Tek0516 | I'm not quite the same level of doomsayer quite yet. In government he'll hopefully become a little more moderate. He'll probably start breaking promises by the dozen. I'm just going to hope it's not as bad as we're fearing. |
| 16:14.13 | Monet | Stupid punk-ass god dragon, felt good to seriously injure him and tear of his armour after landing on his back via a high fantasy HALO jump. |
| 16:14.29 | Technobliterator | Obama is meeting him on Thursday |
| 16:14.52 | Technobliterator | I hope he says "look, repeal Obamacare all you want, even rip up the Iran deal, but do NOT rip up the Paris agreement" |
| 16:17.08 | Xho | Obama's still president mind you |
| 16:17.12 | Xho | Let's just enjoy these last few months |
| 16:18.25 | Tek0516 | Monet: After that Stellaris Ether Drake taunting me I finally slaughtered it in an intense battle on Monday. Always fun for a satisfying boss battle victory. |
| 16:23.14 | Cyrannian | Speech is beginning |
| 16:24.22 | Technobliterator | they're all clapping for some reason |
| 16:24.37 | Monet | Because it's polite? |
| 16:24.39 | ImpyDroid2 | Come on it is going to be fun |
| 16:25.00 | Technobliterator | no, I mean |
| 16:25.05 | Technobliterator | they're clapping when nothing happened |
| 16:25.16 | Technobliterator | no one is even on stage yet |
| 16:25.43 | Xho | Okay well |
| 16:25.47 | Xho | That's the personal statement done |
| 16:25.49 | Xho | References |
| 16:25.50 | Xho | oh joy |
| 16:26.54 | Technobliterator | is she coming on stage or what |
| 16:27.28 | ZF101 | Well, I've gotta go. I'm gonna miss stable, sane leadership. |
| 16:29.23 | Cyrannian | pls hurry hillary, I need to head to work soon |
| 16:30.09 | Monet | it'll be recorded for later |
| 16:32.50 | ImpyDroid2 | Xho Hachiman: Fuck |
| 16:33.28 | Tek0516 | I guess next is Trump's victory speech? |
| 16:33.52 | Xho | ? |
| 16:34.38 | Technobliterator | his speech was ages ago |
| 16:34.39 | Technobliterator | it was pretty good |
| 16:34.44 | Technobliterator | but he obviously didn't write/mean it |
| 16:34.59 | Technobliterator | lol |
| 16:35.04 | Technobliterator | Kaine's delivering the concession speech |
| 16:35.54 | Tek0516 | Oh. I remember last night something about the concession speech usually happens first |
| 16:36.02 | Technobliterator | normally |
| 16:36.05 | Technobliterator | it didn't in 2012 |
| 16:36.14 | Technobliterator | Romney was so confident he didn't write one |
| 16:36.22 | Tek0516 | O.o |
| 16:45.46 | Tek0516 | I'm almost wondering if Clinton hadn't prepared one either |
| 16:45.52 | Technobliterator | I cannot believe Trump's speech is more respectful than hers |
| 16:46.08 | Technobliterator | This is incredible |
| 16:46.25 | Technobliterator | she's basically saying "yeah, I guess I respect it, but why the fuck did you guys vote Trump" |
| 16:49.08 | Xho | troll |
| 16:51.30 | Technobliterator | also a bit of "dude, you better not be a racist as president" |
| 16:56.18 | Cyrannian | I teared up a bit there |
| 16:56.46 | Technobliterator | It was really good at the end |
| 16:57.58 | Cyrannian | That woman should have been president. |
| 17:07.47 | Technobliterator | Alas |
| 17:08.53 | *** join/#sporewiki dino82_ (52b0ddef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.176.221.239) |
| 17:08.57 | dino82_ | hi |
| 17:15.41 | Charles_Bot | My facebook (embedded in a weird mixture of the California and New England social media bubbles) is so toxic right now |
| 17:18.16 | Charles_Bot | The stock market is okay |
| 17:18.22 | Charles_Bot | We're back in the green |
| 17:18.51 | Technobliterator | I hear some people in California want to secede |
| 17:19.04 | Technobliterator | I find that ridiculous, since that's what Texas wanted to do in 2012 |
| 17:19.09 | Charles_Bot | ^ |
| 17:19.29 | Charles_Bot | It's not actually being seriously considered |
| 17:21.45 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (8ea7203a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.167.32.58) |
| 17:23.17 | Technobliterator | which is good |
| 17:28.45 | Monet | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Second_Borealis_Galactic_War/Part_1#Greater_Scope_Than_Before |
| 17:30.34 | Monet | Oluap and I did a thing |
| 17:35.26 | Charles_Bot | Well |
| 17:39.16 | *** join/#sporewiki Imperios (~Imperios@95.140.92.4) |
| 17:40.07 | Monet | Charles_Bot: Hm? |
| 17:46.57 | dino82_ | Was a surprise |
| 17:47.10 | dino82_ | the us electoins, now lets hope for the best |
| 17:53.13 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormydroid (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
| 17:53.34 | Wormydroid | Ugh database engineering sucks |
| 17:58.24 | Tek0516 | Wormydroid: what are you doing? |
| 18:00.32 | Wormydroid | Using PHP my admin: creating a database ysing SQL code and then trying to import data |
| 18:00.51 | Tek0516 | Ah |
| 18:00.52 | Wormydroid | Only I'm getting duplicate key errors |
| 18:01.41 | Wormydroid | I've tried adding data after creating primary and foreign keys, and I've tried creating the keys the first. I've checked the integriry |
| 18:02.01 | Wormydroid | Consistency |
| 18:02.10 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101 (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
| 18:15.21 | Tek0516 | So yesterday the caption on a webcomic I read was "STOP READING COMICS AND GO VOTE". Today it's "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH". XD |
| 18:17.17 | Wormydroid | On telly today there was an old spaghetti western with the name "Trumpet" in it, can't be s coincidence |
| 18:17.21 | Wormydroid | A |
| 18:19.29 | Imperios | Charles_Bot DrodoEmpire: https://www.reddit.com/r/heraldry/comments/5c2prm/coat_of_arms_of_donald_trump/ Made a little doodle for the occasion |
| 18:20.04 | DrodoEmpire | ayy lmao |
| 18:20.39 | Wormydroid | He's half Scottish so he might have one |
| 18:24.34 | Wormydroid | Which might be good news for us post-Brexit |
| 18:34.07 | Imperios | dino82_: I've been wondering |
| 18:34.20 | dino82_ | yeah? |
| 18:34.33 | Imperios | Is there any particular history between the colours of your country's flags? |
| 18:34.47 | Imperios | I know that we took our colours from your flag |
| 18:34.56 | Imperios | *your country's flag |
| 18:35.19 | Imperios | Also, how come it isn't orange if you are ruled by the House of Oranje? |
| 18:36.17 | dino82_ | It isn't orange because in the past, when the Dutch were still a Republic not all were orangist |
| 18:36.20 | dino82_ | not all supported the monarchy |
| 18:37.10 | Imperios | Ah, so the red stands for republican ideals |
| 18:38.33 | dino82_ | The flag has been used since around 1572 aand has nfluenced both the Russian and French flags. and represents in colors the livery of William of Orange, the first Stadholder of the NL. It was formerlly orange but eventually turned red due to not all supporting the monarch |
| 18:38.51 | dino82_ | the once tha tdid use the orange instead of the red is known as the Flag of the Prince |
| 18:39.34 | dino82_ | currently we use the red-white-blue and an orange pennant is added for Kings Day and Princeday |
| 18:40.02 | dino82_ | The flag goes half way at the 5th of may, when we have death remembrance day |
| 18:40.07 | dino82_ | srry the 4th |
| 18:40.14 | Imperios | rite |
| 18:40.30 | dino82_ | on the 5th we celebrate our liberation from German control |
| 18:40.36 | dino82_ | and mostly the flags are waved |
| 18:41.12 | dino82_ | they flags have been usedby our differant states, (dutch Replic, Seven Provinces and currenlty the Kingdom of the Netherlands) |
| 18:42.10 | dino82_ | I think it continued to even be waved during the French occupation of Napoleon, butnot sure on that |
| 18:43.13 | Imperios | I thought Napoleon left puppet states in the areas he conquered |
| 18:44.04 | Imperios | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Flag_of_the_Batavian_Republic.svg Oh yes apparently he made one in the Netherlands |
| 18:44.08 | Imperios | The flag looks sweet |
| 18:44.37 | dino82_ | lol |
| 18:44.51 | dino82_ | though I didn't knew it inspired the Russian flag as well, that is new to me |
| 18:47.08 | Imperios | Russian tsars used to employ Dutch shipwrights to make seagoing vessels I believe |
| 18:47.19 | dino82_ | oh ok! Neat in the times of the tsars? |
| 18:47.56 | Imperios | Very late in the Tsardom era, right before its transition into the Russian Empire |
| 18:48.03 | dino82_ | Yeah, the Dutch were once everywhere in the glorious day of the East Indian Trade Company, sadly we did some bad things as well that still haunt us sometimes (current discussion regarding the 5th of december etc) |
| 18:48.20 | Imperios | I think it was first used by Peter's father |
| 18:48.25 | Imperios | Alexei III I think |
| 18:48.34 | Imperios | Then Peter popularised that flag further |
| 18:48.43 | dino82_ | I have never been to Russia before, it is still on my wishlist to visit St Peterburg and teh Red Square! |
| 18:48.55 | dino82_ | Oh neat! New history knowledge:D |
| 18:48.59 | Imperios | The Red Square is in Moscow, we have the Palace Square XD |
| 18:49.11 | Imperios | Palace Square and the Rebellion Square |
| 18:49.34 | dino82_ | Two places I wold love to visit, moscow and St. Peterburg |
| 18:49.38 | Imperios | Ah |
| 18:49.41 | dino82_ | though so many countrie sI still wanna visit :D |
| 18:49.50 | dino82_ | did visit some but ah well, world is pretty big |
| 18:50.06 | dino82_ | love travelling, you too? |
| 19:08.32 | dino82_ | test |
| 19:49.24 | Imperios | Xho: I like how all Russians are like "YAY TRUMP YAY" |
| 20:16.12 | *** join/#sporewiki Tybusen (8036b784@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.54.183.132) |
| 20:16.24 | Tybusen | Good morning everyone, welcome to the darkest timeline |
| 20:18.04 | Imperios | Tybusen: The rise of evil, ladies and gentlemen |
| 20:18.20 | Imperios | ...Though it would be that either way |
| 20:18.38 | Imperios | Tybusen: California and the West Coast ought to secede |
| 20:18.43 | Imperios | Confederate Socialist States of America when |
| 20:19.16 | Tybusen | I mean |
| 20:19.24 | Tybusen | West Coast has totally legalized weed now |
| 20:19.42 | Tybusen | Prop 64 passed so weed's now legal in CA |
| 20:19.56 | Tybusen | Maybe we should just be the Confederate Socialist States of Weed |
| 20:20.15 | Imperios | Tybusen: Independence Day becomes April the 20th |
| 20:20.19 | Tybusen | And this will be the new capital: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weed,_California |
| 20:22.17 | Imperios | Hachiman: https://pp.vk.me/c626421/v626421954/378f5/HYJbGA9S2qw.jpg Seen this pic> |
| 20:22.18 | Imperios | ? |
| 20:22.40 | Tybusen | Oh well, new Pokemon game comes out next week so that'll distract from the flustercluck |
| 20:23.06 | Imperios | Tybusen: Look at this the other way, it'll be fun to watch the president now |
| 20:23.19 | Tybusen | ehh |
| 20:33.52 | Tek0516 | Sitting down in the campus library I swear half the conversations I overhear are about the election in some way pr another. |
| 20:35.27 | Tybusen | Well I mean that's understandable |
| 20:35.42 | Tybusen | It's kind of a major event and it's literally the day after |
| 20:35.54 | Tybusen | Some people went to sleep yesterday and woke up to a Trump presidency |
| 20:43.45 | Monet | raises his hand |
| 20:45.47 | Imperios | does as well |
| 20:45.53 | Imperios | It was a good beginning of the day |
| 20:46.27 | Hachiman | Aye |
| 20:46.34 | Hachiman | Always nice to wake up to the lesser of two evils |
| 20:47.00 | Tybusen | The president of the most powerful country in the world is a literal meme |
| 20:47.20 | Hachiman | We Metal Gear now |
| 20:48.27 | Monet | no comment |
| 20:49.34 | Monet | I'm more inclined to speak privately on anything. |
| 20:52.34 | Monet | Sorry, took a nap possibly an hour ago, woke up thinking I had a nightmare but can't recall what it was. |
| 20:52.39 | Imperios | Hachiman: I remember actually laughing in my bed as I first opened my phone and saw the results |
| 20:52.46 | Imperios | "What the- AHAHAHAHA" |
| 20:52.58 | Imperios | Monet: It was actually a vision of the future |
| 20:53.35 | Technobliterator | I mean, on climate change we're done for |
| 20:53.41 | Technobliterator | but I can't say I'm too upset |
| 20:54.21 | Imperios | Either way China would continue causing climate change |
| 20:55.36 | Monet | Imperios: Stuff from the moments before dreaming is coming back. |
| 20:55.49 | Technobliterator | oh, that makes me feel so much better |
| 20:55.50 | Technobliterator | oh well |
| 20:56.01 | Technobliterator | give us a few decades and I think the planet's dead |
| 20:57.21 | Tybusen | I'm pretty sure either way we would've been done for on climate change |
| 20:58.07 | Monet | Right now the smarter option for climate change is adapt and mitigate. No amount of wishing "if only we had done better" will change anything. |
| 20:59.02 | Imperios | Tybusen: https://2ch.hk/po/src/19167149/14786951327200.jpg Have I shown you that pic already? |
| 20:59.11 | Monet | Humans are hard-wired to be adaptable and you know what? Whether it's global warming, Trump or ISIS, the real survivors are those wh oadapt ot change |
| 20:59.44 | Technobliterator | we're clearly not adapting |
| 20:59.47 | Technobliterator | because of oil money |
| 20:59.57 | Monet | Then adapt on an individual basis. |
| 21:00.20 | Technobliterator | because we can get enough people to do that, clearly |
| 21:00.54 | Monet | What I realised a few minutes ag ois this: Who cares. Millions of other people voted for an idiot for president. |
| 21:01.15 | Technobliterator | And billions will die because of it |
| 21:01.21 | Technobliterator | thanks oil money |
| 21:01.23 | Technobliterator | thanks Democrats |
| 21:01.50 | Monet | Are we going to whine about the bad choice or could we - not the millions of Americans but each of us here in the community - unleash our human potential and adapt to this change? |
| 21:03.07 | Hachiman | I mean, hey |
| 21:03.16 | Hachiman | We could be whining about the worst choice amiright |
| 21:03.28 | Monet | Start at the core. Achieve full control over your own body first, before you start worrying about the level of control you have over the larger spheres. |
| 21:03.29 | Hachiman | And have allowed Shillary into power |
| 21:04.25 | Imperios | THere's an old Russian prisoner riddle about this |
| 21:05.00 | Imperios | "One chair has spikes on it, the other has dicks. Where will you sit yourself and where will you put your mother?" |
| 21:05.11 | Imperios | Answer? "Take the spikes and cut the dicks" |
| 21:05.25 | Hachiman | kek |
| 21:05.41 | Hachiman | Also, I'm fairly convinced that we were fucked in regards to climate change even if we had Sanders as President |
| 21:06.29 | Hachiman | The climate is inevitably in the process of changing, both naturally and artificially, and it's too far gone for anyone to stop at this point |
| 21:06.53 | Technobliterator | Do you really think that it couldn't have been slowed down just enough for us to have a grip on it? |
| 21:07.09 | Technobliterator | We could have 100% renewable energy right now |
| 21:07.10 | Technobliterator | we do not |
| 21:07.13 | Technobliterator | because oil money |
| 21:07.20 | Technobliterator | We also could have world peace right now |
| 21:07.21 | Technobliterator | we do not |
| 21:07.23 | Technobliterator | because oil money |
| 21:07.45 | Monet | It could have, but complaining it took us this long to start changing fixes nothing |
| 21:08.07 | Hachiman | As Monet said, it could have, but not anymore |
| 21:08.31 | Technobliterator | Well, I guess the only positive is that Trump's foreign policy half the time was non-interventionism |
| 21:08.40 | Hachiman | Which is surprising |
| 21:08.44 | Technobliterator | I believe that's all bullshit now and he'll surround himself with interventionists and war hawks, but |
| 21:08.57 | Technobliterator | there's a smidgen of hope that we get a better foreign policy on the Middle East |
| 21:08.59 | DrodoEmpire | http://i.imgur.com/dIOneZf.jpg |
| 21:09.01 | Monet | Humanity's greatest obstacle to adaptation is wishing things could be like yesteryear. |
| 21:09.49 | Technobliterator | alright, best case scenario |
| 21:09.59 | Technobliterator | Trump does not rip up the Paris agreement, instead he just doesn't enforce it |
| 21:10.02 | Technobliterator | it's still extremely bad |
| 21:10.10 | Technobliterator | but it just means the states do the work on their own |
| 21:10.10 | Hachiman | Trump builds a wall |
| 21:10.17 | Technobliterator | and other countries stick to it |
| 21:10.34 | Technobliterator | that is the best hope we have |
| 21:10.41 | Technobliterator | otherwise, give us a few decades |
| 21:10.42 | Technobliterator | and dead |
| 21:10.53 | Monet | Sometimes you just have to ignore what your neighbour is doing and tackle a solution. |
| 21:12.23 | Hachiman | Well, at least we still have Svalbard |
| 21:12.31 | Monet | I for instance could talk to my neighbours about using my herb garden as an ash tray. I could talk to them about how they have no control over their dogs' barking, but I have almost zero guarantee they'll sort things out their end. |
| 21:13.44 | Hachiman | Also I honestly doubt Clinton would have done jack shit about environmental conservationism |
| 21:14.13 | Monet | The only thing that could be done is making sure the climate-deniers aren't congressmen. |
| 21:14.17 | Hachiman | It's not in her interests and it's something she'd say to gain popularity because of course it would, just like hanging around ethnic and social minorities |
| 21:15.15 | Monet | The United Kingdom didn't survive a world war by telling Germany to stop it with the Atlantic raiding. It survived by encouraging its people to turn every green space into a vegetable garden. |
| 21:15.18 | Technobliterator | She wouldn't have ripped up the Paris agreement, Hachi |
| 21:15.24 | Technobliterator | That's already infinitely better |
| 21:15.38 | Technobliterator | even if her platform promises on building more solar panels were bullshit |
| 21:16.32 | Hachiman | Eh true |
| 21:17.57 | Hachiman | Hopefully Kanye West isn't a climate change denier when he runs for Presidency in 2020 |
| 21:19.48 | Technobliterator | you think he'll actually do it? |
| 21:19.59 | Hachiman | I honestly wouldn't put it past him |
| 21:20.06 | Technobliterator | Fair enough |
| 21:20.22 | Technobliterator | The best scenario, really, is Trump not scrapping the Paris agreement, and just failing to enforce it |
| 21:20.55 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@95.140.92.4) |
| 21:21.03 | Hachiman | Although ideally, I'd want Michelle Obama for President in 2020; although considering she's black, a woman, and related to Obama who is considered by many to be an ineffectual President, I doubt she would get very far |
| 21:21.16 | Hachiman | Oh and the fact she has to contend with the Meme Man himself |
| 21:23.22 | Monet | Trump won the sprint, now he must endure the marathon. |
| 21:24.42 | Hachiman | At this point, I'm wondering if Trump will continue his anti-establishment streak or if he will fall in line with Congress |
| 21:24.44 | Monet | If people think he looks unhealthy now, wait to they see what four years of presidential stress will do. |
| 21:26.10 | Monet | http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1617425.1392669679!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/george-w-bush-2001-2005-2009.jpg see how Dubya change since he entered the office. |
| 21:26.13 | Tybusen | Given Trump's social status I doubt he'll deliver on most of his promises for the working-class |
| 21:26.28 | Technobliterator | he'll probably scrap trade deals |
| 21:26.34 | Technobliterator | it won't help, but he'll try and scrap them |
| 21:26.44 | Monet | thisis him in 01 (starting), 05 (reelection) and 09 (leaving) |
| 21:26.50 | Technobliterator | or maybe he will try, and his own congress will oppose |
| 21:26.53 | Technobliterator | then twitter |
| 21:26.54 | Tybusen | I'd be fine with TPP getting flushed down the drain |
| 21:26.59 | DrodoEmpire | Monet: W's deterioration's nothing compared to Obama's >.< |
| 21:27.39 | Technobliterator | @POTUS Congress keep trying to block trade deal bills. System is totally rigged! #DrainTheSwampAgain |
| 21:27.51 | Monet | DrodoEmpire: The job has only gotten more stressful post-9/11 |
| 21:27.58 | DrodoEmpire | True |
| 21:28.00 | Technobliterator | along with "Sad!" and "total losers!" |
| 21:28.12 | Technobliterator | yeah, TPP failing is the silver lining |
| 21:28.25 | Technobliterator | and at least the war on drugs is mostly done with, I guess |
| 21:28.48 | Tybusen | CA legalized marijuana so that's pretty much the death knell for marijuana being illegal |
| 21:28.59 | Technobliterator | yup |
| 21:29.09 | Technobliterator | war on drugs is over |
| 21:29.11 | Technobliterator | I will not miss it |
| 21:29.11 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah its beginning to wind down, hopefully |
| 21:29.14 | Monet | DrodoEmpire: But I see your point. It's surprising how he was hailed as the youngest president in decades when he was elected. |
| 21:29.23 | DrodoEmpire | Definitely. That whole war was a disease on society |
| 21:29.54 | Hachiman | War on Drugs was more ineffectual than Obama |
| 21:30.07 | Tybusen | Next step in reversing the damage of the War on Drugs is to invest more in rehabilitating people who get jailed for drug offenses |
| 21:30.45 | Monet | I have a feeling Obama's presidency will become more celebrated as time goes by. |
| 21:31.18 | Tybusen | Eh, I wouldn't put Obama's presidency in the bottom half of presidencies but I don't know if I'd put it at the top yet |
| 21:31.29 | Technobliterator | well, the Iran deal, the Cuba deal, the stimulus, and the work on climate change was pretty decent |
| 21:31.35 | Tybusen | Probably too early to tell the consequences of all his policies |
| 21:31.40 | Tybusen | Iran and Cuba are good though |
| 21:31.40 | Technobliterator | Obamacare is no longer part of his legacy, that's basically done for now |
| 21:31.49 | Monet | Tybusen: Give it a decade or more. |
| 21:32.11 | Technobliterator | But for the most part, he just didn't do enough to stand up to the neocons Bush put in there |
| 21:32.18 | Technobliterator | or to his own corporatist party |
| 21:32.23 | Tybusen | A decade for the foreign policy, four years for the economic policy |
| 21:32.31 | Tybusen | Yeah, that's my biggest grievance with Obama |
| 21:32.39 | Technobliterator | he wasted his first term trying to compromise with racists who would never compromise at all |
| 21:32.40 | Tybusen | Didn't do enough to stand up to corporatism or corruption |
| 21:32.47 | Technobliterator | He could've been the modern day FDR |
| 21:33.05 | Technobliterator | instead he was just a slightly better Bill Clinton |
| 21:33.11 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah there's no doubt Obama was a capable leader, but a lot of his policies were either disrupted by his opposition or, less often, misguided on his part |
| 21:33.17 | Technobliterator | had he gone against Bush tax cuts, might've balanced the budget like Bill Clinton did |
| 21:33.18 | Technobliterator | mhm |
| 21:33.40 | Technobliterator | I honestly think if he was as good at playing politics as FDR was, things would be a whole lot better |
| 21:33.46 | Technobliterator | but he tried too much to be a uniter when it didn't work |
| 21:33.56 | Monet | Politics was different in FDR's days. |
| 21:34.03 | Technobliterator | FDR was such a boss |
| 21:34.16 | Technobliterator | Supreme Court blocks you? Pfft, add in more Supreme Court Justices |
| 21:34.22 | DrodoEmpire | FDR is my favourite anime character |
| 21:34.26 | Technobliterator | Your own party blocks you? Blackmail them with primaries |
| 21:34.44 | Tybusen | Though I suppose one thing to remember is that back in FDR's days, the modern Republican base was part of the Democratic base |
| 21:34.53 | Technobliterator | The opposition compares you to Marx? Laugh it off and expose them for what they are |
| 21:35.12 | Monet | And corporations were a lot less intertwined in government. |
| 21:35.14 | Technobliterator | FDR was probably the best president the country ever had, and he won a war to boot |
| 21:35.20 | Technobliterator | maybe Lincoln was better, I dunno |
| 21:35.36 | Technobliterator | one destroyed slavery, the other destroyed the banks |
| 21:35.40 | Tybusen | 1940s Republicans were still allies of Big Business but they didn't have the racism and bigotry of the white southern base |
| 21:35.46 | Monet | What's Lincoln's legacy beyond the Emancipation Act? |
| 21:35.59 | Technobliterator | he won a Civil War to get said Emancipation Act |
| 21:36.09 | Technobliterator | and was also extremely good at playing politics to get there |
| 21:36.13 | Tybusen | Lincoln was entirely a wartime president so most of his legacy is tied to the Civil War |
| 21:36.20 | Hachiman | It is people like Lincoln and Roosevelt that modern Presidents should care to live up to |
| 21:36.51 | Technobliterator | Yup |
| 21:36.52 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian (uid97882@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kkwrudwexammacqr) |
| 21:36.52 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 21:37.00 | Monet | We saw what happened when Obama tried to stand up to a Republican congress - they were willing shut down the government itself. |
| 21:37.20 | Technobliterator | see, FDR wouldn't have allowed that |
| 21:37.25 | Technobliterator | he wouldn;t have let it get that far |
| 21:38.09 | Cyrannian | Hi everyone |
| 21:38.12 | Technobliterator | hihi |
| 21:38.18 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormydroid (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
| 21:38.24 | Tybusen | A really skilled politician would've been able to do some political judo on those shutdowns and use it to galvanize their base against the Republicans |
| 21:38.31 | Tybusen | Hi Cyr |
| 21:38.47 | Wormydroid | Hi |
| 21:38.51 | Monet | Hi |
| 21:38.54 | Cyrannian | Hi |
| 21:39.25 | Technobliterator | hihi |
| 21:39.45 | Technobliterator | yeah, Obama was extremely good at the campaigning part, just not the political judo part |
| 21:39.53 | DrodoEmpire | http://imgur.com/gallery/Jy7OS3d |
| 21:39.56 | Technobliterator | hence why he was only a decent president instead of the modern FDR |
| 21:40.26 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:38fa:3be:64ac:69) |
| 21:40.30 | Monet | I think one of Obama's legacies could be he restored the kind of faith other nations had that Bush Jr. practically destroyed. |
| 21:40.36 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 21:40.36 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 21:41.11 | Cyrannian | Hi |
| 21:42.11 | Tybusen | I think Obama's foreign policy legacy will be interesting |
| 21:42.33 | Technobliterator | Iran and Cuba deal were fantastic |
| 21:42.35 | Tybusen | On one hand, he did some great stuff by dethawing relations with Cuba and Iran |
| 21:42.36 | Technobliterator | The rest, disappointing |
| 21:43.08 | Tybusen | On the other hand, he's continued the military action in Afghanistan, and his actions in Libya and Syria have caused devastating instability |
| 21:44.31 | Monet | It's possible what might magnify Obama's legacy is it followed one of the worst presidents in living memory. |
| 21:46.47 | Tybusen | Yeah but that sort of comparison effect will probably wear off as we get further and further away from 2016 |
| 21:47.10 | Tybusen | Especially if the president after Trump ends up being the neo-FDR or neo-Lincoln |
| 21:48.23 | Tybusen | With the current state of the world as Obama is leaving office, history can still either vindicate or condemn him |
| 21:49.01 | Tybusen | Or it could also just say "meh", we can't know |
| 21:55.28 | Technobliterator | well, my friend assures us not to worry |
| 21:56.01 | Technobliterator | because apparently Trump is only controlled by a Rothschild-funded secret elite |
| 21:56.05 | Technobliterator | yeah, she was not very bright |
| 21:56.23 | Tybusen | Well I mean |
| 21:56.27 | Tybusen | South Korea's leader |
| 21:57.33 | Technobliterator | like, this is someone I used to have genuine intelligent discussions with |
| 21:57.40 | Technobliterator | and now she's posting Rothschild conspiracy theories |
| 21:57.43 | Technobliterator | rolls eyes |
| 21:58.53 | Tybusen | I've looked at my facebook feed a couple of times today and a lot of people are talking about "oh looks like america wasn't ready for a FEMALE PRESIDENT" |
| 21:59.03 | Tybusen | And mostly, I'm just like, |
| 21:59.20 | Tybusen | "i don't that was the problem" |
| 21:59.40 | Technobliterator | Technically speaking, they're wrong |
| 21:59.48 | Technobliterator | the majority of voters voted for the first female president |
| 21:59.52 | Technobliterator | but the electoral college did not |
| 22:00.04 | Tybusen | This election cycle has mostly disillusioned me on identity politics |
| 22:00.27 | Technobliterator | I think it has for a lot of people |
| 22:00.45 | Tybusen | There was so, so much identity politics being used by the Hillary campaign to shame people into voting for her |
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| 22:01.57 | Technobliterator | it was a winning strategy in 08 and in 2012 |
| 22:02.03 | Monet | It has baffled me for years how it's all about the figurehead, when the USA is a federal republic. |
| 22:02.09 | Technobliterator | purely from a demographic perspective |
| 22:02.31 | Technobliterator | they just lost the white working class vote in the rust belt states |
| 22:02.32 | Tybusen | Problem is, Hillary didn't galvanize people like Obama did in 08 |
| 22:02.38 | Tybusen | Yeah, that's the thing |
| 22:02.42 | Tybusen | The Rust Belt decided this election |
| 22:03.44 | Tybusen | If you look at the election map, every Rust Belt state went to Trump |
| 22:03.56 | Tybusen | Even Michigan which typically leans more blue |
| 22:03.59 | Monet | A lot of the attacks I saw on Hilary weren't about her policies (how much coverage did her plan for Appalachia get other than 'Hilary wants to kill coal miners;?) |
| 22:04.35 | Tybusen | The entire campaign season was primarily identity politics rather than issue politics |
| 22:04.57 | Technobliterator | which is not helped by most of the media outlets not covering policy at all |
| 22:05.04 | Technobliterator | and all the debate questions basically being bullshit |
| 22:05.16 | Technobliterator | no question on climate change |
| 22:05.19 | Tybusen | Hillary was banking on identity politics to net her the win because her policies were definitely not going to excite middle American voters |
| 22:05.22 | Technobliterator | all we have to go on from Trump's position is: |
| 22:05.28 | Technobliterator | *leans into mic* |
| 22:05.29 | Technobliterator | WRONG |
| 22:05.49 | Tybusen | Hillary's campaign: "i'm a woman" |
| 22:05.57 | Tybusen | Trump's campaign: "WRONG" |
| 22:07.09 | Monet | And from what I hear there aren't that many new faces in Congress. |
| 22:07.39 | Monet | Something about how a lot of congressmen (or was it governors) got re-elected regardless of their performance. |
| 22:08.20 | Tybusen | As far as Representatives go, that probably has to do with districts being gerrymandered to shit and no one from same party challenging the incumbent |
| 22:09.21 | Tybusen | My home district had a Berniecrat running against the incumbent Republican |
| 22:09.25 | Monet | Although that seems to be the way of UK/American politics. |
| 22:10.07 | Tybusen | Predictably, since my home district is wealthy and social conservative, the incumbent Republican gets voted in |
| 22:10.27 | Monet | I happen to live in a constituency where my MP is conservative, pro NHS, pro EU and pro-renewables and yet in the referendum the area voted to leave. |
| 22:10.38 | Tybusen | Though, Orange County voted blue in the presidential election, which is surprising since OC is usually a red county in the presidential |
| 22:10.51 | Monet | My constituency is a lucky one though. |
| 22:10.54 | Technobliterator | Well, that's why Trump promised to DRAIN THE SWAMP with term limits |
| 22:11.01 | Technobliterator | not like that's very likely, but eh |
| 22:12.02 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormydroid (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
| 22:12.09 | Tybusen | Term limits could be a way to limit politicians from getting too comfy in Washington and becoming corrupt career politicians, but on the other hand that might get in the way of politicians who are actually public servants (like a certain Mr. Sanders) |
| 22:12.12 | Wormydroid | Hi |
| 22:12.25 | Tybusen | Hello |
| 22:12.36 | Monet | I grew up in a constituency where my MP was a lib-dem. I like the Lib-dems for their reputation of not being crazy but my hometown MP has been blamed for why the town was 80%-90% housing estate. |
| 22:12.45 | Technobliterator | yeah, that's the thing |
| 22:12.52 | Wormydroid | I wonder how beimg President will mesh with beibg a businessman |
| 22:13.32 | Technobliterator | I think my constituency is solid Labour |
| 22:13.40 | Technobliterator | I have no love for Labour, but I have no love for any party at all |
| 22:13.54 | Hachiman | WRONG |
| 22:14.24 | Hachiman | Also I forgot the Lib-Dems existed |
| 22:14.36 | Tybusen | Political analysts have been saying that Orange County might become more liberal as OC kids become adults |
| 22:14.52 | Monet | Technobliterator: I think it was in 2012 when I decided rather than voting by party, I'd vote by the content of the manifesto. |
| 22:15.03 | Tybusen | Though I think my constituency in southern OC will probably be one of the last to turn blue since it's full of rich white people |
| 22:15.08 | Wormydroid | Conservative, my town and parish council closed a foodbank and charity because it believed there were no people below the poverty line, but there are |
| 22:15.34 | Technobliterator | I wouldn't do that |
| 22:15.45 | Technobliterator | most of the things this government has done are things that weren't on the manifesto at all |
| 22:15.55 | Technobliterator | their manifesto was an outright lie |
| 22:16.01 | Technobliterator | likely, so was every party's manifesto |
| 22:16.55 | Monet | I saw a pattern of "Conservatives balance the books, Labour overspends. Tories try balancing the books again" |
| 22:17.37 | Technobliterator | That is a very interesting way of looking at it |
| 22:17.49 | Technobliterator | considering it was Attlee's "overspending" that actually got the deficit down |
| 22:18.03 | Technobliterator | honestly, Attlee was the only good prime minister the country ever had |
| 22:21.22 | Monet | A large budget is acceptable when the economy is doing well. |
| 22:21.46 | Technobliterator | Doing well? It had just come out of the Great Depression and the Second World War |
| 22:22.32 | Monet | And had a large cash injection by the Marshall Plan |
| 22:22.47 | Technobliterator | His government recovered from it, it got people working even after the war time when many soldiers would've lost their war, solved the deficit, and got us social reforms like the NHS |
| 22:23.12 | Technobliterator | Which, by the way, the Conservatives voted against, to which they were referred to as "lower than vermin" |
| 22:23.15 | Monet | The Marshall Plan was the money the country needed to get back on its feet. |
| 22:24.03 | Technobliterator | Paid off pretty well though, didn't it? |
| 22:24.08 | Technobliterator | Keynesian economics in action |
| 22:24.33 | Monet | America had the money because it hadn't been half-demolished by the war. |
| 22:24.54 | Technobliterator | Because it had a strong economy thanks to its own Clement Attlee |
| 22:24.54 | Technobliterator | 8D |
| 22:25.33 | Monet | This was also Keynesian economics done right - investing in infrastructure and the right kind of industry. |
| 22:26.26 | Monet | Right now a Keynesian approach to British steel or fishing is a bit of a money sink because that's not where much of Britain's economy now is. |
| 22:26.44 | Technobliterator | Well, I think a big criticism of Attlee's government which I agree with was that he didn't do enough infrastructure reform |
| 22:26.52 | Technobliterator | he just jumped straight to the social reforms |
| 22:27.32 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormydroid (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
| 22:28.00 | Wormydroid | https://youtu.be/l7op92W7voE man dresses as dog's favourite chew toy |
| 22:28.28 | Monet | The best approach to building a nation is to approach Mazlowe's hierarchy. |
| 22:30.25 | Hachiman | Wormydroid: Adorabel |
| 22:30.49 | Wormydroid | It is |
| 22:31.02 | Wormydroid | Dogs > humanity |
| 22:31.24 | Monet | That's what China is doing. Say what you will about the nation's human rights and environmental record, China's poverty rate went from 85% in '81 to ~33% in 08 |
| 22:34.33 | Monet | Give the government time and it might start sorting out its environmental record. |
| 22:42.23 | Tek0516 | Yay, today I found some non-US politics I can get angry about instead. >.> |
| 22:59.07 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 23:06.32 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (516c282b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.108.40.43) |
| 23:06.50 | Wormy_ | i |
| 23:07.00 | Wormy_ | h |
| 23:08.18 | The_Randomness | ih |
| 23:17.00 | Wormy_ | Monet, Xho, Hachiman: http://imgur.com/gallery/SF2cb |
| 23:17.12 | Hachiman | Awful |
| 23:17.42 | Monet | I heard |
| 23:18.04 | Monet | Well that's what happens when the cost of importing chocolate takes a hike. |
| 23:25.57 | Monet | Although I kind of find it funny how we're screaming out, but Toblerone is Swedish. |
| 23:30.10 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (ad2e68ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.46.104.237) |
| 23:30.27 | Wormy_ | http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/582333e91600002f002c95ad.png |
| 23:36.21 | Tek0516 | Wormy_: XD |
| 23:36.54 | The_Randomness | lmao |
| 23:44.28 | Tek0516 | https://youtu.be/8ZiI6kVkPXs I blame John Oliver for Trump |
| 23:51.22 | Wormy_ | Kanye for President 2020 |
