00:30.35 | *** join/#sporewiki Tybusen (44053b94@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.5.59.148) |
00:31.22 | Tybusen | Hello |
00:35.04 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
00:42.13 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: Just a $50 pair of Phillips. Nothing extremely fancy. |
00:42.29 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh |
00:43.57 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: Oh, I was watching these educational videos by TED earlier. One I bailed on quickly, after it started talking about places like medieval Japan being "peaceful". O.o |
00:44.55 | Tek0516 | Because it's not like there was a long internal conflict there or anything. :P |
00:50.18 | DrodoEmpire | ... |
00:50.19 | DrodoEmpire | >.< |
00:50.34 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
00:50.40 | DrodoEmpire | What was the message of it, ultimately? |
00:51.00 | DrodoEmpire | Like the subject? |
00:52.51 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: Something about successful isolationism I think? It's other examples were Egypt and the Mayans. Because obviously they never had major wars. >.> |
00:53.47 | DrodoEmpire | Ah |
00:53.48 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
00:53.52 | DrodoEmpire | Sounds like nonsense |
00:54.34 | DrodoEmpire | I mean, Edo period Japan *was* quite peaceful |
00:54.51 | DrodoEmpire | But the period direct before it, and the period before *that* were not |
00:55.00 | DrodoEmpire | And Japan was still relatively isolated then |
00:55.38 | DrodoEmpire | As in its biggest rivals were eachother, not Korea or China or the Jurchens :p |
01:06.22 | Tek0516 | It was a rather odd argument going as far as to outright say none of the three examples "needed" war, as though they were some kind of peaceful utopias |
01:08.39 | DrodoEmpire | eeyeah no |
01:08.44 | DrodoEmpire | Mayans were profoundly violent |
01:08.55 | DrodoEmpire | The Japanese have always been warlike |
01:09.30 | DrodoEmpire | And Egypt fought plenty of wars both abroad (Their battles with the Hittites for example) and among eachother (intermediate periods0 |
01:09.31 | DrodoEmpire | *) |
01:52.09 | *** join/#sporewiki Spluff5 (d237baa5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.55.186.165) |
01:53.02 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
02:03.54 | Spluff5 | Hello |
02:04.16 | Spluff5 | Any of you guys using monopoles? I'm writing about them now. |
02:04.49 | DrodoEmpire | Hm? |
02:04.54 | DrodoEmpire | Not me |
02:05.41 | Spluff5 | I need more information for my technology page. |
02:14.21 | Wortmy | Yeah, there's a few monopole technologies used either for structural materials and monopole-catalysed fusion |
02:18.46 | DrodoEmpire | Generally speaking I'm not on the techish part of the spectrum |
02:18.51 | DrodoEmpire | Less "sci" more "fi" :p |
02:19.02 | DrodoEmpire | So I wouldn't know the first thing there |
02:20.29 | The_Randomness | And, honestly, monopoles are at best theoretical |
02:20.48 | DrodoEmpire | And Hyperspace is entirely fictional <.< |
02:20.52 | DrodoEmpire | What's your point? |
02:22.59 | The_Randomness | that's a good point, give me a moment to get to you on that |
02:23.20 | DrodoEmpire | I mean, I know jack-shit about monopoles |
02:23.26 | DrodoEmpire | But on that principle alone |
02:23.56 | Wortmy | Well, monopole tech exists in the SporeWikiverse |
02:24.03 | The_Randomness | yeah, it does |
02:24.14 | Wortmy | So that answers Spluff's question |
02:26.41 | DrodoEmpire | Oh, just had a thought playing RTW |
02:27.11 | DrodoEmpire | Some on Rome II total war a lot of units- even cavalrymen- have javelins as a secondary weapon |
02:27.15 | DrodoEmpire | *So on |
02:27.46 | The_Randomness | DrodoEmpire: My statement was poorly timed and misdirected, so I don't have any response to you there :< |
02:27.58 | DrodoEmpire | Meh its cool |
02:28.00 | DrodoEmpire | No problem |
02:28.34 | DrodoEmpire | And I mean if anyone's ever done javelin in like a school track contest you probably know that it can be tiring to toss even that flimsy aluminium one with a bit of a runup |
02:29.11 | DrodoEmpire | Imagine a really heavy war-javelin, and the fact that these people could throw them a good twenty yards with decent accuracy >.< |
02:29.16 | Wortmy | I'm off to bed now, but if Spluff returns could someone link him to "Topological solitons"? http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/User%3AGhel%C3%A6/Guide_To_Stuff#Hypothetical |
02:29.35 | The_Randomness | Sounds impressive |
02:29.38 | DrodoEmpire | Even worse, throwing a javelin from *horseback* (which many RII units do) |
02:29.49 | DrodoEmpire | Where you only have upper body strength to rely on |
02:30.00 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy: Sure |
02:30.01 | The_Randomness | And you're constantly bumping around |
02:30.05 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
02:30.36 | DrodoEmpire | With no stirrups, as it was in the classical era |
02:30.57 | DrodoEmpire | Now, mounted javelineers are actually historical is the crazy part- the Spanish Jinetes jump to mind |
02:31.46 | Wortmy | Thanks, goodnight |
02:31.58 | DrodoEmpire | But yeah I was initially sorta skeptical anybody could've thrown javelins from a sitting/hunched standing position, but it seems like there *are* examples |
02:32.18 | DrodoEmpire | I can't imagine them having long range though |
02:34.43 | DrodoEmpire | Actually I wonder if they could use the speed from a galloping horse as runup |
02:34.49 | DrodoEmpire | But I dunno how the physics add up there |
02:35.16 | DrodoEmpire | And a lot of the throwing force comes from the core anyway, being able to have that range of movement you don't have on the saddle |
02:35.53 | The_Randomness | Yeah, I wouldn't know, but it would seem to me like you could take advantage of the speed you have from the horse already, but then again you have additional limitations while throwing |
02:36.15 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
02:36.38 | DrodoEmpire | I figure its a tradeoff- you have less range and accuracy, for increased speed and mobility |
02:36.47 | DrodoEmpire | The ability to quickly run in, harass, and retreat |
02:37.03 | The_Randomness | yeah |
02:37.03 | The_Randomness | Also interesting is that magnetic monopoles are predicted by a bunch of stuff, and would only require some slight modifications to Maxwell's equations |
02:37.18 | The_Randomness | Just haven't been observed yet |
02:37.38 | DrodoEmpire | Huh |
02:37.59 | The_Randomness | So it seems like a fairly safe thing to bet that they'd exist, although I have no idea what sort of properties they might have |
02:38.22 | DrodoEmpire | Right, right |
02:38.44 | DrodoEmpire | As in- their properties are unknown in general or just because you haven't read enough? |
02:38.57 | DrodoEmpire | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinete - Ah found them |
02:39.04 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah they used "darts" |
02:39.20 | The_Randomness | Well, unknown beyond trivial stuff, i.e. they're the magnetic analogue to electric charges |
02:39.27 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
02:39.53 | DrodoEmpire | So a there's a lot of blanks for sci-fi writers to fill |
02:39.53 | The_Randomness | I'm sure there's some speculative stuff out there, but I have no idea how you'd produce or even use them on a large scale |
02:40.02 | DrodoEmpire | Fair enough |
02:40.18 | DrodoEmpire | I stick to well-known sci-fi concepts for the Drodo, which plays in to their traditionalism fairly well |
02:40.28 | The_Randomness | yeah |
02:40.29 | DrodoEmpire | I got other priorities with the Drodo |
02:40.37 | DrodoEmpire | Other than technological speculation |
02:46.55 | DrodoEmpire | test |
02:52.29 | DrodoEmpire | test |
03:50.11 | DrodoEmpire | test |
06:25.23 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire Tybusen |
06:25.35 | Charles_Murray | I've been doing more research on IRL naval warfare |
06:25.50 | Tybusen | Hello |
06:26.12 | Charles_Murray | Can you guys guess how many battleship-on-battleship engagements there were in history, counting all nations, all navies, all theatres, all wars, all of time? |
06:26.47 | DrodoEmpire | Define "Battleship" |
06:26.56 | Tybusen | IIRC, not very many actually |
06:27.03 | DrodoEmpire | Do you mean modern, like post-dreadnaught ships? |
06:27.19 | Charles_Murray | Steam battleships (pre-dreadnoughts) and post-dreadnoughts |
06:27.23 | Tybusen | For sure there were very few clashes between post-dreadnoughts |
06:27.24 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh |
06:27.31 | DrodoEmpire | I'ma say... At most like eight |
06:27.36 | Charles_Murray | 3 |
06:27.39 | Charles_Murray | Fucking |
06:27.39 | Charles_Murray | 3 |
06:27.45 | DrodoEmpire | I even *thought of three*! >.< |
06:27.47 | Tybusen | Yep, sounds about right |
06:27.54 | Tybusen | Let's see |
06:27.58 | Tybusen | The one with the Bismarck |
06:28.01 | DrodoEmpire | I knew one was the... Battle of Tsushima I believe |
06:28.05 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
06:28.09 | DrodoEmpire | During the Russo-Japanese War |
06:28.18 | DrodoEmpire | Which was a landslide Japanese victory |
06:28.31 | Tybusen | I can't recall the third one |
06:28.33 | Tybusen | Wait |
06:28.42 | DrodoEmpire | Battle of... Jutland? I dunno |
06:28.45 | Tybusen | Actually wasn't it the one where the British and the German battleships both sunk each other |
06:28.47 | DrodoEmpire | Dunno the name |
06:28.52 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah I think that's Jutland |
06:28.54 | Tybusen | That's the Battle of Jutland I think |
06:29.04 | DrodoEmpire | I'm not too good with naval stuff |
06:29.24 | Charles_Murray | Jutland is correct |
06:29.30 | DrodoEmpire | And the last one I think was the very first naval engagement with ironclads in the American Civil War |
06:29.37 | Tybusen | Ah wait Bismarck was at Battle of Jutland |
06:29.45 | Tybusen | Do Monitor and Merrimack count as battleships? |
06:29.58 | DrodoEmpire | Possibly, not sure by what Charles said |
06:30.04 | DrodoEmpire | Probably not on second thought |
06:30.12 | DrodoEmpire | They were pretty primitive |
06:30.39 | Tybusen | Yeah, Merrimack was a frigate before becoming an ironclad |
06:30.59 | Charles_Murray | Yeah, the line is a little fuzzy, but I would definitely not classify them as battleships |
06:31.24 | Charles_Murray | France - This is why I switched to carriers guys |
06:31.48 | DrodoEmpire | A lot of ship classifications are pretty arbitrary as it is |
06:31.48 | Charles_Murray | France - Not sure what y'all still doing |
06:31.48 | Tybusen | Wikipedia tells me the third battle was Battle of the Yellow Sea during the Russo-Japanese War |
06:31.48 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
06:32.52 | Tybusen | Yellow Sea was also a Japanese victory because it prevented the Russian fleet at Port Arthur from being able to escape |
06:33.10 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
06:33.17 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire Tybusen : Also on the subject of naval warfare, I was thinking about the Rambo Starfleet earlier, and they might actually be more of a match for Xonexi doctrine than we might expect |
06:33.25 | DrodoEmpire | Really? |
06:33.30 | DrodoEmpire | They still use warp drives |
06:33.44 | DrodoEmpire | Which gives them a pretty big speed disadvantage |
06:34.56 | Charles_Murray | They seem to have a sizable airforce to start with, their ships are very small (good in hyperspatial warfare, big ships are very vulnerable), they have hyperspatial missiles, they are aware of their speed disadvantage and so are employing a territorial defense doctrine |
06:35.09 | DrodoEmpire | Fair enough |
06:35.37 | Charles_Murray | If they were to go command of space, they'd most definitely suffer from their disadvantage in speed |
06:35.48 | Tybusen | The Delphator-class cruisers that are part of the Gorge are only capable of Warp 7.8 |
06:36.04 | Charles_Murray | They're carriers, though, right? |
06:36.19 | Tybusen | Ah right |
06:36.33 | Tybusen | The Gorge page describes them as cruisers, but the Delphator page describes them as dreadnought-carriers |
06:37.13 | Charles_Murray | Hm |
06:37.29 | Charles_Murray | What does the TIAF think of Rambo Nation's aggressive moves? |
06:38.45 | Tybusen | The TIAF thinks that it's definitely a step in the wrong direction by the new Rambo emperor and would probably scale back their military cooperation with the Rambo in response |
06:39.18 | Tybusen | They're probably also having memories of Emperor Kies' actions during the Kraw wars |
06:40.42 | Tybusen | There's also the fact that the TIAF has colonies in Quadrant 82 but I still have no idea where I put them |
06:40.56 | Charles_Murray | You could just retcon them in |
06:41.03 | Charles_Murray | Anywhere, really |
06:41.16 | Charles_Murray | They'd be absolutely welcome in the Neutrality Zone where we have tons of stuff going on |
06:41.54 | Charles_Murray | One of the big dilemmas for me in planning for a potential confrontation with Rambo Nation is Imperial involvement |
06:42.27 | Tybusen | Right, because the Rambo are still technically an Imperial protectorate |
06:43.43 | Charles_Murray | Planning for a war with Rambo Nation is one thing, involving countering their navy built around small ships, a territorial doctrine, all of which points to maximizing the advantages we can draw from a command of space doctrine to (1) break the Gorge, (2) isolate the different Rambo territories, and (3) attack them at will. |
06:46.09 | Charles_Murray | Planning for a war with Rambo Nation + the CyraEmp is the exact opposite. In that case, the Empire would be the primary concern, with what I assume is a command of space doctrine heavily reliant on battleships. Given the claustrophobic nature of the Quadrants, we don't have the space to safely engage battleships at a distance |
06:46.49 | Tybusen | Right, the enclosed theater that the Gorge creates makes it difficult to counter CyraEmp's raw conventional power |
06:47.28 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
06:48.04 | Charles_Murray | Which points to a Fleet in Being doctrine + deterring them from attacking the Neutrality Zone to bottle up as much of the Imperial Navy in the Quadrants while the war is fought elsewhere, in Mirus, the Milky Way, Andromeda, etc, places where open space gives French naval and airpower an advantage. |
06:48.37 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
06:49.00 | DrodoEmpire | Perhaps, in the event of war, it'd fall largely in the hands of the Union and Drodo Empire to defend the Quadrants and Katar |
06:49.12 | DrodoEmpire | Leaving the French to fight in the other, more open theatres |
06:49.26 | Tybusen | This is where you would probably want more conventional power supported by Supercarrier doctrine rather than the straight Supercarrier doctrine |
06:49.32 | DrodoEmpire | (Drodo use a lot of battleships as well) |
06:49.48 | DrodoEmpire | Which is where the Drodo come in, though currently short a Supercarrier |
06:49.52 | DrodoEmpire | But hopefully not for long |
06:49.57 | Charles_Murray | Well |
06:50.07 | Charles_Murray | A supercarrier isn't a combat ship, you'll remember |
06:50.19 | Charles_Murray | Supercarrier doctrine is just a power projection tool |
06:50.56 | Tybusen | Right, so in a close theater like the Neutrality Zone, you'll need a lot more conventional naval power in order to protect the Supercarrier |
06:51.09 | Tybusen | Whereas the vacuum of space would normally do that in an open theater |
06:51.25 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah of course |
06:52.29 | Charles_Murray | The only reason we would have to put a supercarrier in the Quadrants is (1) if we have a safe place to put it where it won't be instantly sniped (*wink wink* Dawnstar *nudge nudge*), and (2) to provide to the NZ logistics capacity to field a fleet or sustain itself beyond what its infrastructure would already be able. |
06:52.57 | Charles_Murray | Tybusen : What do you understand by 'conventional' naval power? |
06:54.33 | Charles_Murray | Alternatively, a reason to use a supercarrier would be to go on the offensive in a region of the Quadrants without using the established routes |
06:54.53 | Tybusen | "Conventional" naval power in the sense of traditional battleships and dreadnoughts |
06:55.46 | Tybusen | Against a more conventional naval power like CyraEmp |
06:56.36 | Tybusen | Especially if they bring some of their larger fleets to bear |
06:58.21 | Charles_Murray | Sure, I see what you mean |
06:58.29 | Tybusen | The advantages of Xonexi hyperspatial doctrine vs. conventional naval doctrine only manifest as long as the main centers of air power are kept out of the targeting range of a conventional fleet's raw firepower |
06:59.21 | Tybusen | In a tight area of space, you'll need some way to engage the enemy's fleets in a conventional manner in order to keep the fire off of your air power bases |
06:59.56 | DrodoEmpire | Again, the Drodo doctrine's much closer to a conventional battleship doctrine >.< |
07:00.14 | DrodoEmpire | So it *can* act as, if not a counter, an appropriate response given the terrain of the Quadrants |
07:00.42 | Charles_Murray | We've actually got different doctrines in play in the different Xonexi nations, though. French command of space doctrine with a heavy reliance on carriers and their escorts is one, there's the Draconis and Drodo doctrines which field battleships and battlecruisers outfitted with hyperspatial weaponry (riftfire guns, missiles) with airpower serving in support |
07:00.53 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
07:01.38 | Tybusen | Right, the TIAF also follows battleship doctrine instead of carrier doctrine |
07:01.43 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
07:02.53 | Charles_Murray | Though they've also got French fighters if I remember correctly |
07:03.04 | Charles_Murray | So do the Drodo actually so that doesn't change much |
07:03.26 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
07:03.30 | DrodoEmpire | I was about to mention |
07:03.36 | DrodoEmpire | *everybody* uses French fighters >.< |
07:03.58 | Charles_Murray | France - :) |
07:04.19 | Tybusen | The question of committing a supercarrier to the Quadrants probably hinges on whether the involvement of CyraEmp would necessitate the extra logistical support, or make the Quadrants theater so hopeless that a Supercarrier shouldn't be risked |
07:04.40 | Charles_Murray | Hm |
07:04.46 | Charles_Murray | I would put it another way: |
07:04.49 | Tybusen | The TIAF does also make its own fighters, but they do incorporate French fighters for more of the long-range stuff |
07:06.07 | Charles_Murray | I would definitely commit a supercarrier to the Quadrants either way, no matter whether the Empire joins or not |
07:07.54 | Charles_Murray | In both cases, it provides extra logistics capacity for a territory which wasn't overly militarized before (in the sense that it has the facilities to support the armies and navies of an entire Gigaquadrantic empire, let alone several), and in the nightmare scenario that the wormhole is closed, it would provide supplies, food, fuel, etc, until we can get it up an running |
07:08.08 | Charles_Murray | So it isn't an insta gg if we lose the wormhole |
07:09.05 | Charles_Murray | As for protection, easy. Put it inside the Dawnstar shell, where France will be building a whole naval base capable of accommodating it and a whole fleet of ships, definitely leaving the door open to shelter DrodoEmpire's battleships in there if necessary |
07:09.24 | Charles_Murray | The supercarrier would be useful in both cases, whether the Empire joins or not: |
07:09.35 | Tybusen | I suppose something else to consider is if the wormhole is captured and the Rambo/CyraEmp try stuffing some of their forces into it to attack the other end |
07:09.54 | Tybusen | Would that necessitate a closing of the wormhole on the other end? |
07:10.01 | Charles_Murray | Yes, without question |
07:10.46 | Tybusen | I suppose with 2800s tech they can probably set up a new wormhole after it's all clear |
07:11.17 | Charles_Murray | Which would take time and resources, but it's probably the only way to get back |
07:11.26 | Tybusen | I guess wormholes are like super-long range canals in this sense |
07:11.47 | Tybusen | Though I can't recall any times in naval history where an important canal was destroyed to prevent an enemy from gaining usage of it |
07:12.14 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah to destroy a canal is, well firstly very har |
07:12.15 | DrodoEmpire | *hard |
07:12.21 | DrodoEmpire | And canals are very expensive too >.< |
07:12.49 | Charles_Murray | Rite. I have a hunch that Egypt did that during the Suez Crisis, though I'm not entirely sure |
07:13.17 | DrodoEmpire | Wasn't that they just blocked it off, as opposed to blowing the whole thing up? |
07:13.17 | Tybusen | I was thinking that Suez is the most likely to have had that happen to it, but I don't think the Suez Crisis led to the Canal being destroyed in some way |
07:13.19 | Charles_Murray | I remember it was out of commission for a while afterwards |
07:13.24 | DrodoEmpire | I dunno |
07:13.44 | Charles_Murray | Yeah, I'm in the dark too |
07:14.02 | Charles_Murray | But unlike canals, wormholes can be easily destroyed |
07:14.05 | Tybusen | Well, I guess if we're comparing canals to wormholes here, destroying a wormhole in the 2800s is probably akin to throwing a bunch of massive boulders into the canal |
07:14.24 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
07:15.00 | Charles_Murray | The real question for me |
07:15.27 | Tybusen | Though I have to imagine that in eras before wormhole engineering was common, destroying a wormhole for strategic purposes was probably a decision with much greater weight |
07:15.37 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
07:15.58 | Charles_Murray | I personally wish it wasn't common tbh |
07:16.23 | Charles_Murray | Wormholes take away a lot of strategic depth we could otherwise have |
07:17.00 | Tybusen | Or rather, perhaps the ease with which wormholes can be reconstructed makes wormholes lose a lot of their potential strategic value |
07:17.43 | DrodoAway | Yeah, I'm not against them as an idea |
07:17.47 | DrodoAway | They're certainly convenient |
07:18.06 | DrodoAway | But they shouldn't be thrown around like candy |
07:18.57 | Tybusen | Actually, most of the Bunsen wars that I've done involve the use of wormholes in an era where making your own wormhole was unheard of |
07:19.52 | Tybusen | Since they're lost forever if you destroy them, you don't blow them up to prevent an enemy from using them, and you have to factor them into your defensive calculations |
07:19.55 | Charles_Murray | Tybusen : I dunno; the biggest question I have for battleship doctrine is how you answer a territory which can project a killzone of anti-ship missiles from ground-based launchers whose range exceeds that of battleship guns, and whose range is extended further by strike craft based out of airstrips in the territory. |
07:22.03 | Tybusen | Charles_Murray: I think the TIAF's answer for that would be clearing out long hyperspace routes to the target in order to reduce the opportunities the anti-ship defenses have to attack the fleet in transit |
07:22.46 | Tybusen | And once in orbit, the fleet is more than capable of dealing with planet-based defenses (primarily through orbital bombardment) |
07:23.25 | Tybusen | Though then again, I'm probably thinking of the era when hyperspace travel was the norm and there were no counters to ships in hyperspace |
07:24.26 | Tybusen | TBH most of my assumptions on TIAF naval tactics come from the Andromeda War which is the last time I actually wrote a conventional naval battle for the TIAF |
07:29.31 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
07:38.02 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (32b8eef8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.184.238.248) |
07:38.07 | Charles_Murray | Tybusen : Ack sorry |
07:38.08 | Charles_Murray | Dced |
07:38.11 | Charles_Murray | and didn't realize it |
07:38.18 | Charles_Murray | What was the last thing that was said? |
07:41.22 | Tybusen | [00:19] <Charles_Murray> Tybusen : I dunno; the biggest question I have for battleship doctrine is how you answer a territory which can project a killzone of anti-ship missiles from ground-based launchers whose range exceeds that of battleship guns, and whose range is extended further by strike craft based out of airstrips in the territory. |
07:41.32 | Tybusen | Charles_Murray: I think the TIAF's answer for that would be clearing out long hyperspace routes to the target in order to reduce the opportunities the anti-ship defenses have to attack the fleet in transit |
07:41.34 | Tybusen | And once in orbit, the fleet is more than capable of dealing with planet-based defenses (primarily through orbital bombardment) |
07:41.36 | Tybusen | Though then again, I'm probably thinking of the era when hyperspace travel was the norm and there were no counters to ships in hyperspace |
07:41.39 | Tybusen | TBH most of my assumptions on TIAF naval tactics come from the Andromeda War which is the last time I actually wrote a conventional naval battle for the TIAF |
07:43.21 | Charles_Murray | Right, but I mean a very large and concentrated grouping of planets (a territory) where the infrastructure for ground troops and ground-based systems is present, and where they themselves are present |
07:45.00 | Tybusen | Right, there battleship doctrine doesn't really have an era |
07:45.01 | Tybusen | *answer |
07:45.09 | Charles_Murray | If you approach the territory, you're accosted by missiles from all directions. If your shredded fleet gets into orbit of a planet, sure the planet below won't be able to target them because of the Angelfire's inability to fire accurately at short range, but they'll still be attacked on all sides by the planets around them |
07:45.20 | Charles_Murray | Which is my concern |
07:45.28 | Charles_Murray | Battleships are made to fight other battleship |
07:45.31 | Charles_Murray | battleships* |
07:45.54 | Charles_Murray | What happens when there's no battleships to fight, and you're instead met with cheap missile-carrying systems for which you are a big target? |
07:47.19 | Tybusen | Right, that's not an easy situation for battleship-oriented navies |
07:48.02 | Tybusen | Though for battleship navies like the TIAF or Drodo, since they lack enemies that are using carrier doctrine like France, I'd imagine they see less of a need to "evolve" to carrier tactics |
07:48.19 | Charles_Murray | France - But that makes me OP |
07:48.43 | Tybusen | *France has been banned to Ubers tier* |
07:49.03 | Charles_Murray | France - Bu-bu-but... I have no one to play with... |
07:49.14 | Tybusen | Xhodocto - hey |
07:49.19 | Charles_Murray | France - FUCK |
07:49.48 | Tybusen | TIAF - that's what you get for being too tall hon hon |
07:51.33 | Tybusen | I wonder if some of the naval planners who are managing the Xonexi battleship navies are also thinking that letting France handle all of the carrier stuff will prevent their individual enemies from going to carriers too in response to an all-carrier Xonexi bloc |
07:53.55 | Charles_Murray | I strongly doubt it, there's really nothing to be gained by maintaining a hugely expensive battleship arms race when it's so easy to switch over, and so easy to invalidate the object of the arms race |
07:54.52 | Tybusen | They might have the idea in their heads that switching to carriers will just start a carrier arms race |
07:55.31 | Tybusen | And since battleships are still by and large the status quo outside of Xonexi, they don't see a need to switch over to a different doctrine |
07:55.56 | Charles_Murray | Well there's keeping up with French power for one |
07:56.08 | Tybusen | In the TIAF's case, at least, their senior staff is also filled with older commanders who are trained in battleship doctrine and like their powerful warships too much to switch |
07:57.34 | Charles_Murray | Because while France has been good with the diplomacy and all, that's due partly to the character and disposition of its leaders, but also to the imperfect nature of its power: it needs to compromise in order to get what it wants. If it gets too powerful, why would it need to listen to the TIAF or the DI when it can just go ahead and do it over objections? |
07:58.25 | Tybusen | Right, and in some ways the TIAF is taking the Franco-Tybusen alliance for granted in this respect |
07:58.46 | Charles_Murray | Aye, in a way |
07:58.55 | Tybusen | They are taking some measures to keep up, like the Vontarion-class strategic dreadnought, but they're mostly relying on France to handle the carrier logistics |
07:59.23 | Charles_Murray | There's also maximizing your own power. Those who switch are able to use their resources more efficiently, with the same resources providing greater power under a carrier doctrine |
08:00.06 | Charles_Murray | And so, eventually everyone is using a carrier doctrine for fear of falling behind |
08:00.15 | Tybusen | The TIAF's reluctance to switch to carrier doctrine has largely to do with getting a little too comfortable under the French carrier umbrella and that they have an entrenched senior command staff that prefers battleship doctrine |
08:00.42 | Charles_Murray | That makes sense to me |
08:01.06 | Tybusen | And since TIAF command staff has a tendency to not die or retire, they will likely stay a battleship navy until something forces them to switch |
08:01.20 | Charles_Murray | France - *nudge* |
08:01.30 | Tybusen | Which would most likely be being on the receiving end on a devastating carrier attack a la Pearl Harbor |
08:01.38 | Charles_Murray | France - *bombs* |
08:02.40 | Tybusen | "You have declared war on the TIAF!" |
08:02.41 | Charles_Murray | Would there be other ways for France to nudge them in the direction of reform? |
08:02.57 | Charles_Murray | Then... You know... Attacking them. |
08:03.41 | Tybusen | The TIAF is probably going to be pretty stubborn on this issue as far as friendly encouragement/nudging/shoving goes |
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08:04.23 | Tybusen | They are more likely to be convinced to go carrier by the actions of non-Xonexi nations rather than others in the Xonexi bloc |
08:04.29 | Charles_Bot | Well of course |
08:04.53 | Charles_Bot | The battleship refused to die in the US navy until 1991 |
08:06.25 | Tybusen | If the other Bunsen nations start adopting carriers, that might convince them to upgrade, but the other Bunsen powers either currently lack the resources for carrier-based naval power or have no desire for it |
08:07.17 | Tybusen | The BGR could probably muster the resources but since they are isolationist by nature and are a very compact nation, they have no desire for carrier power |
08:07.29 | Charles_Bot | But at the same time, the rest of the navy evolved despite the fact that battleships were still in service, albeit in a secondary role |
08:07.44 | Charles_Bot | Well it actually extends beyond the mere use of carriers |
08:08.21 | Tybusen | Right, it's also about the power projection that comes with it |
08:08.50 | Charles_Bot | It's actually the introduction of naval aviation IRL, and the introduction of missiles which makes naval aviation relevant again over lone distances in Sporewiki |
08:08.56 | Charles_Bot | Long* |
08:09.31 | Charles_Bot | A strike craft carrying an angelfire missile is cheap; a ground-based angelfire missile system is even cheaper |
08:11.07 | Charles_Bot | The Bunsen powers might not want to sink the resources into carrier aviation, and that makes perfect sense. It's complex, and demanding in resources, skill, and infrastructure |
08:11.21 | Charles_Bot | And not to mention situational |
08:12.07 | Charles_Bot | It makes perfect sense in France's case, given that it has a large empire to defend and huge networks in between to keep control of |
08:12.55 | Tybusen | But for most of the Bunsen powers, who have contiguous empires in one galaxy, there's less of a need for that amount of efficient power projection |
08:13.06 | Charles_Bot | ^^^^^ |
08:13.31 | Charles_Bot | Not only that, but the territories are very close together and often touching |
08:14.19 | Charles_Bot | Which means that navies, operating in the spaces between, will play a secondary role in support of armies attacking and defending that territorial space |
08:15.20 | Tybusen | Right, tight quarters like that demand more raw strength than long-range power projection |
08:16.21 | Tybusen | In the form of war constructs that can take and control planets rather than establish zones of absolute naval dominance |
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08:16.47 | Charles_Bot | ^^^ |
08:16.49 | Tybusen | Since the resources offered by planets outweigh those given by control over swathes of space |
08:16.53 | Tybusen | Hai Impy |
08:17.17 | Charles_Bot | Well, I would disagree there |
08:17.47 | Charles_Bot | It has little to do with resources and more with what the strategic situation demands, and what it lets you get away with |
08:18.08 | Tybusen | Right, that makes sense |
08:19.15 | Charles_Bot | So in France's case, control of the spaces between is a necessity for it to be able to bring to bear the raw power that you're speaking of as a precondition for taking a territory |
08:19.31 | Charles_Bot | For BGR, AWA, etc, they literally don't need that |
08:19.52 | Tybusen | Right, because there is little to no space in between to establish control over |
08:20.19 | Tybusen | Territorial borders are *the* front lines in Bunsen conventional wars |
08:20.37 | Charles_Bot | ^^^^ They can just use short-range transports and escort ships to get seamlessly from one territory |
08:20.42 | Charles_Bot | To another |
08:22.01 | Charles_Bot | They can instead focus their resources on their armies, elaborately protecting those borders, etc, while a naval force would be a waste |
08:22.29 | Charles_Bot | If they mean to fight a war against Bunsen powers I mean |
08:23.09 | Tybusen | Right, though naval power is still considered important in Bunsen doctrines in order to establish safe corridors for transport of terrestrial forces and resources |
08:23.48 | Charles_Bot | They'd also be coming up with more and more elaborate ways to attack and dismantle the fortifications of neighboring powers, while France's army is pretty vanilla |
08:24.37 | Tybusen | so what you're saying is that they're french vanilla |
08:25.09 | Charles_Bot | France - I HAVE BEEN SHOWN |
08:25.50 | Tybusen | But yes, the evolution of Bunsen powers' tactics and strategies largely revolve around subverting enemy fortifications by finding ways to flank or exploit weaknesses in the naval and terrestrial defense lines |
08:26.11 | Tybusen | And seizing control of important bottlenecks used in the transport of troops or supplies |
08:27.08 | Tybusen | Wormholes were considered super important before because in past eras of Bunsen, wormholes were sometimes the sole lifeline for certain exclaves or outlying territories |
08:27.30 | Tybusen | And losing them meant that the territory on the other side would likely be surrounded by insurmountable enemy forces |
08:28.01 | Charles_Bot | ^ |
08:28.37 | Charles_Bot | I need to go to bed :( |
08:28.37 | Tybusen | And even today, wormholes are still treated with some level of sanctity, partly because the non-TIAF powers don't have easy access to wormhole engineering |
08:28.42 | Tybusen | Ah yeah |
08:28.45 | Tybusen | Get some sleep |
08:29.06 | Charles_Bot | Good night, I hope to talk further later! |
08:29.13 | Tybusen | Yeah, see you later! |
08:29.27 | Charles_Bot | Night ^.^ |
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09:46.33 | Wormy_ | hi |
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09:50.25 | Wormy_ | Lol Nigel Farage in bed with Donald Trump http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37177938 |
10:21.52 | Liquid_Ink | Sexy |
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11:05.51 | Hachiman | Hi |
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11:19.21 | Monet | hello |
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11:45.25 | Monet | Hello |
11:47.32 | Wormy_Laptop | hi |
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12:30.17 | Jepardi | Hi |
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12:32.03 | Cyrannian | Hello |
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13:36.54 | Imperios | Hi |
13:37.21 | Monet | hi |
13:59.19 | Wormy_ | hey |
14:05.53 | Monet | So it's just been released what the GITS cast will look like https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqtTPcRWIAAP4al.jpg |
14:06.24 | NeonPanda | not terrible |
14:06.42 | Monet | I think they're pretty good aside from Togusa. |
14:08.06 | Monet | Togusa's meant to be this youth who obsesses over the 1980s. |
14:11.07 | NeonPanda | yeah, should be a bit younger |
14:11.49 | NeonPanda | Monet: I've also turned my bus fort into a raider camp in preparation for Nuka World |
14:12.08 | Monet | I can understand giving Batou eyes- he's the second lead. We need to see his eyes. |
14:13.02 | Monet | Humans aren't as flexible with their foreheads as Batou is inthe Anime/Manga |
14:14.05 | Monet | So I'm sort of with the internet - they took potentially one of the most American of the main cast and made him very strongly Japanese. |
14:16.00 | Monet | Also here's Boma https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/iw5thdtazzyx8svhmjjw.jpg |
14:16.35 | Monet | It's largfely due to the image quality but I agree with this gif https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--h_2AzP6f--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/xsljp8jfj9r94r6x3yrk.gif |
14:20.50 | Monet | I could live with it, Boma didn't have much of a role in the Anime. |
14:26.30 | NeonPanda | also, aluminium bat putting in work |
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14:41.09 | DrodoAway | test |
14:41.37 | NeonPanda | hi |
14:44.42 | DrodoEmpire | test |
14:56.01 | NeonPanda | you're functional, it's just a slow night |
15:24.24 | Imperios | NeonPanda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sptmcBhEDo Behold, Russians making a superhero movie |
15:26.48 | NeonPanda | so where's the part where they don't pretend to be the avengers? :P |
15:31.14 | Imperios | NOWHERE |
15:31.31 | Imperios | It's *that* stupid hur |
15:33.24 | Imperios | I just wanted to show how trashy that is |
15:38.49 | Tek0516 | O.o There was an article calling for an end to this airshow here because they say the jet sounds are too traumatic for refugees. |
15:39.18 | NeonPanda | not the worst I've herad |
15:39.20 | NeonPanda | heard* |
15:40.33 | DrodoEmpire | Jeez... |
15:40.38 | DrodoEmpire | >.< |
15:42.02 | Hachiman | Needs more Watchmen |
15:44.04 | Tek0516 | Also it's some college student calling for this, not actual refugees. >.> |
15:44.16 | NeonPanda | of course it's a college student |
15:44.29 | NeonPanda | I imagine one side of their hair is shaved off and the rest has purple highlights |
15:45.08 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah... |
15:46.38 | Tek0516 | Some white PhD candidate I think they said. |
15:46.59 | NeonPanda | Surprise! Intrigue! |
15:47.04 | Monet | So we have a college student saying that the jets are too traumatic for refugees. Are we sure the student isn't saying this o nthe logic of "war is bad, and these jets are war machines therefore they are bad" |
15:47.16 | DrodoEmpire | Probably |
15:48.12 | DrodoEmpire | And they also probably figure the refugees are just as thin-skinned and fragile as them, and would care about this :p |
15:48.38 | NeonPanda | almost certainly |
15:48.42 | DrodoEmpire | If a refugee complains, or the refugee community at large were to make a complaint, ehh, then maybe they should be heard as with any noise complaint |
15:49.07 | DrodoEmpire | But this is a classic example of taking offense on somebody else's behalf |
15:51.44 | Monet | I got thinking about this whole "college is about making a home" - we're talking an institution that charges $11,000 per year, then an extra $3-4000 for accomodation |
15:52.07 | DrodoEmpire | Its a cancerous mindset |
15:52.23 | DrodoEmpire | Harming a lot of universities and other institutions |
15:52.46 | Monet | They're paying $15,000+ a year to have a safe space. |
15:53.22 | NeonPanda | and that safe space is going to evaporate the moment they leave |
15:54.10 | DrodoEmpire | And while they make that safe-space, they're damaging the integrity of the university or college they're in and disrupting the learning of their peers who aren't quite as coddled |
15:55.27 | Monet | I'm with Panda |
15:55.53 | DrodoEmpire | Oh yeah same |
15:55.57 | Monet | Those who knuckle down and get the most out of what universities are supposed to be, that money is an investment |
15:57.21 | Monet | Meanwhile the students who campaigned for safe spaces will leave their university with debts of 45-60000+, no job prospects, they've wasted their mnoney |
15:57.46 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
15:57.47 | Wormy_ | Imperrios: Looks so bad, its good |
15:58.53 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: Apparently calls to shut it down (including by the paper that published this) are nothing new. Lots of people whining about noise. This is just their latest attempt. |
15:59.13 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
16:00.03 | Imperios | Monet: I bet noone even asked the refugees |
16:01.49 | Monet | Imperios: Agreed. |
16:02.03 | Monet | This seems like a PhD student acting like a white knight. |
16:02.03 | Wormy_ | Hah, reminds me of when a city council in England decided not to put up Christmas decorations encase it upset the Jewish population, and that actually wound up upsetting the Jewish population who felt segregated and even like the lights by this strange multiculturalism where the majority West are once again deciding where and how Jewish people should be treated |
16:02.58 | Wormy_ | But the same principle is applicable in all sorts of contexts |
16:04.27 | Monet | COme to think of it my university might be seeing the initial effects. |
16:04.55 | Monet | Last year, when we were studying postmodernism, we had a guest speaker talk about feminism and the protrayal of women in video games. |
16:05.23 | Monet | Wait no It was late i nthe year before |
16:07.35 | Monet | I remember when it come to discussing essays in groups "the portrayal of women in media and video games" was such a popular essay topic that in the fourth seminar group (which I was in) the lecturer asked for a show of hands for who's writing about feminism. |
16:09.34 | Monet | At the time I didn't think much of it; it was post-easter, Gamergate was still relatively fresh and I think a lot of students were more interested in writing an essay that would get them through. |
16:12.25 | Wormy_ | Its a funny time when people seem to be at their most apathetic and desensitised to the real important issues in the world. I think there is almost a consumerist, "hip" thing about a lot of social media and campus activism |
16:14.41 | Wormy_ | I'm rather alarmed that in France, police could go up to Muslim women wearing 'burkinis' on the beach and forcing them to take off their clothes with an on the spot fine? Where are the French rallying against that for "Liberté, égalité, fraternité"? None, instead the woman was verbally assaulted by fellow beachgoers as the police stood by |
16:15.38 | Monet | There's the misconception that Muslim women wear these coverings all the time, even i nthe house. |
16:15.41 | Wormy_ | I like to think that if that happened in the UK, a million people would turn up to the beach in burkinis, but now I don't think I live in that age where they would anymore |
16:19.13 | Monet | I vaguely recall that while Islamic custom requires women to cover up, how much they do is up to the woman, that or her husband. |
16:21.58 | Wormy_ | There's a lot to be said about how women in Islamic cultures are pressured to cover up, but here is a case of someone in a supposedly free and equal country being forced to take them off. And as far as I'm aware, she was alone with her daughter |
16:23.14 | Wormy_ | *are often |
16:24.55 | Monet | Both are equally authoritarian. |
16:26.37 | Wormy_ | The grain of my concern is apathy |
16:26.50 | Monet | Do you think there might be ignorance as to why Muslim women feel they should cover up besides being told to? |
16:28.52 | Monet | I get the sneaking feeling that some people imagine these women wear these things while bedding their partners. |
16:31.46 | Wormy_ | Yes, I have a feeling she was probably forced to take her burkini off because people in those areas have forgotten or ignored the wider context of religious freedom and yes, multicultural tolerance. It was her choice to wear a burkini, most likely. Instead its been symbolised as threatening and alien, for which she was punished for |
16:36.28 | Monet | I recall this Muslim fashion designer was on the news months ago, she got famous for trying to make the hijab into something that could be stylishly worn and she was asked some very interesting questions like "do you shower wearing your hijab?" |
16:41.01 | Wormy_ | Assuming it was not trolling, it makes me wonder why in this day and age so much little is known about other cultures in even largely pro-multicultural countries |
16:42.03 | Wormy_ | I think people are sold on overly simplified views of the world by the media and their own social bubbles |
16:42.17 | Monet | brb |
16:42.21 | Wormy_ | politicians as well |
16:47.58 | Monet | I think you're right, but it might not be soem insidiosu government scheme |
16:49.51 | Monet | When I browse my economics feed on Quora I see many variations of either "I'm 18, how can I be rich?" or "how do rich people stay rich" |
16:50.31 | Monet | When I was growing up, it was my mother who taught me money management. |
16:50.45 | Wormy_ | I don't think its intentional, politicians are people as well, so prone to the same myths and distortions as the public. |
16:51.20 | Monet | A lot of people treat Google as the source of infinite knowledge. |
16:53.31 | Wormy_ | I think an example is the work of Adam Curtis. He has examined how people in the 20th century became sold on the idea that computers and network-controlled markets could reach stability (the world is complex and dynamic than that really), that such stability would emerge from human action without hierarchiual structure (e.g. California ideology), where everyone would be free |
16:53.33 | Monet | So it might be a number of people have tuned in to using Google to sate their curiosity and to learn. Which makes them vunerable to oversimplifications. |
16:56.02 | Wormy_ | Instead, people were led to believe these systems had more power than they actually had, and in fact politics and power hadn't gone away. And then after the recession and great human tragedies happening in the world, people carried on the myth they were machines, mere observers not actors |
16:57.00 | Wormy_ | Like the case with Google, this viewpoint would have that people put their fauth into systems that make the world seem simpler |
16:58.08 | Wormy_ | We're surrounded by human tragedies in the world today, but nobody really knows what to do, or even if we should do anything |
16:58.09 | Monet | Wikipedia - some trust it implicitly, some find it dangerously prone to half-truths. |
16:58.18 | Wormy_ | Thats how cynical and apathetic people are |
17:00.53 | Monet | The sheer volume of tragedies being reported is feeding the belief that humans are the worst thing to walk the Earth. |
17:01.36 | Wormy_ | And I think, the belief that we can do nothing |
17:02.15 | Wormy_ | Except for things that are easy and accessible within one's circle, like the depiction of women in video games. Not the stoning of women around the world |
17:03.48 | Wormy_ | Climate change and antimicrobial resistance also loom heavy on the horizon. |
17:03.59 | Hachiman | What's this about human being cynical and apathetic |
17:04.03 | Hachiman | I can't be bothered to read |
17:04.16 | Wormy_ | Well, I'm not explaining the media philosophy again |
17:04.45 | Wormy_ | Also, its more about the culture of apathy, rather than people |
17:05.01 | Wormy_ | People can and will eventually change imo |
17:05.21 | Wormy_ | bbl dog walk |
17:07.03 | Monet | Hachiman: We were discussing what women being forced out of their Burquinis by police to angry beach-goers might say about how society has come to think |
17:07.46 | Wormy_away | And how nobody seems to be by and large questioning this |
17:08.33 | Wormy_away | Except on Twitter |
17:09.03 | Monet | It developed into postulation that the internet, the tide of pessimistic media and modern norms has fostered apathy and oversimplification. Such as assuming that women who wear Muslim headwear wear them everywhere, even to bed or in the shower. |
17:09.55 | Wormy_away | Such that it became a symbol of negativity that couldn't be tolerated |
17:11.56 | Monet | Or perhaps complaining that the .1% get to live extravagantly and do what they like while the complainers are simultaneously curious as to just how wealth is retained outside assuming illegal behaviour. |
17:14.43 | Monet | (which funnily enough is also a source of negativity and intolerance) |
17:20.55 | Monet | Maybe I was influenced by news of exam results being handed to students. |
17:22.00 | Monet | Schools today press that school results will determine your future. |
17:22.35 | Monet | I got a D in GCSE IT yet here I am coding navboxes and scripting 3D animations. |
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17:31.51 | Monet | hi |
17:37.08 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
17:52.19 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
17:52.45 | Wormy_ | *never get to university without GCSE's |
17:53.05 | Wormy_ | I *did* do open university courses though, instead |
17:53.37 | Wormy_ | Not only cheaper, they can add up into a degree if you do enough of them |
17:57.41 | Wormy_ | There's so much more to a job or university and application than array of certificates and skills. Personality, enthusiasm (but perhaps not to ridiculous levels), even your interests all count. They don't teach that in school |
17:57.54 | Wormy_ | *job or university application |
17:58.27 | Wormy_ | Or rather, don't foster it (since they are development skills I guess) |
17:59.04 | Wormy_ | Schools pressure pupils to pass, and its partly from government pressure |
18:00.46 | Wormy_ | Sadly it isnot working so well because some college lecturers I've spoken to are getting students fresh out of school who can't read or write and show little interest in expanding their horizons. |
18:01.11 | Wormy_ | Though it depends on region |
18:01.40 | Wormy_ | Said students also take criticism to a personal level. |
18:02.11 | Monet | Yeah not good. |
18:02.40 | Wormy_ | To be fair I'm not talking about everyone, my experience of students from different subjects on courses I studied on had quite different personalities. |
18:03.28 | Wormy_ | because they were from different regions and attracted different types of people |
18:05.25 | Monet | Yeah. There are still some who will succeed coming out of university. |
18:08.30 | Wormy_ | I think these problems run deep. Brought up with a lack of criticism, monocoddling, no wonder people care so much about their 'safe spaces' (although I'm not against raising awareness about offensive norms and language). But I feel sorry for our generation, we're moving out of homes older, student fees and I think living costs are far more expensive, the recession hit hard. And the myth that the world feels helplessly shit feel |
18:09.04 | Wormy_ | with the role of media and the confusion of social networks |
18:13.45 | Monet | You got cut off with 'shit feee' |
18:14.09 | Wormy_ | In a way, what we need is more, not less criticism of language and language games. But at an honest, critical level of discussion |
18:14.26 | Wormy_ | *And the myth that the world feels helplessly shit feels ever prescient |
18:18.13 | Wormy_ | I think that's what disappoints me about Corbyn most of all. At least if you are going to campaign for re-nationalising the rail, at least be honest. Instead he used an opportunity to bolster his image to his supporters. And it fell flat on his face! |
18:19.18 | Wormy_ | We don't want positive dreams anymore than we want cynical nightmares |
18:20.31 | Wormy_ | Since the mid 20th century optimism falls way short of its prophesies and once again makes the population feel hopeless |
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18:22.10 | Monet | Hi |
18:22.51 | Monet | Wormy_: Yeah. The internet has broadened horizons, but also shows how scary the world feels. |
18:23.43 | Wormy_ | I remember back in 2011 during the Arab spring I really began to believe that social networks were bringing the downfall of tyranny. |
18:24.15 | Wormy_ | And while it did organise people, it created even worst tyranny and civil war |
18:24.54 | Monet | I think we all learned that when tyrants fall, there's no guarantee a stable democracy will emerge. Especially where democracy is unfamiliar |
18:25.08 | Wormy_ | Even David Cameron praised the power of the social network, and then later called for networks to be shut down after the England riots (lol) |
18:25.20 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:9185:bcdb:5bb6:126) |
18:25.20 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
18:25.22 | Wormy_ | -during the riots |
18:25.27 | Wormy_ | hi |
18:25.31 | The_Randomness | Hello |
18:26.48 | Wormy_ | Monet: And if you look at what people were saying in the 90's about the internet, they had grander dreams than the reality of it. They didn't predict how consumerist it became, and how distorting media was |
18:27.08 | Wormy_ | They saw it as the end of both |
18:27.26 | Monet | We might be seeing the same with augmented reality. |
18:28.55 | Monet | Pokemon Go made people much more sociable, but in their pursuits to catch 'em all, people were crashing their cars, trespassing, developing tribal mindsets due to the team systems (plenty of people calling Team Mystic 'special' in particular), even reports of muggers setting up lures and PokeStops. |
18:33.01 | Wormy_ | I remember seeing on the web people stopping their cars with the doors still open en-masse at Central Park. |
18:33.18 | Wormy_ | To catch some Pokemon |
18:36.35 | Monet | That was fun. |
18:38.55 | Wormy_ | On a less depressing note, Stephen Baxter's written a quick article speculating on what life might be like on Proxima b https://www.newscientist.com/article/2102268-if-earth-like-planet-proxima-b-has-life-what-might-it-be-like/?utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=ILC&utm_campaign=webpush&cmpid=ILC%257CNSNS%257C2016-GLOBAL-webpush-lifeonpproxima |
18:39.45 | DrodoEmpire | Oh cool |
18:40.55 | The_Randomness | Wormy_: I feel like you're fixating on the negative there. I've heard stories about parks known for drug deals and such turning into pleasant places again due to them being swarmed by people playing Pokemon Go. |
18:41.21 | Wormy_ | Yes, there *are* positives to social media. |
18:41.47 | Wormy_ | I'll post the whole discussion we had, it gives context |
18:42.19 | Wormy_ | We're not criticising social media but highlighting an aspect of culture it has created that isn't very productive. |
18:42.43 | The_Randomness | Ah alright |
18:43.33 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:9185:bcdb:5bb6:126) |
18:43.33 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
18:43.36 | The_Randomness | freenode y |
18:44.19 | Wormy_ | if pastie will work, that is |
18:44.28 | Charles_Murray | Imperios |
18:44.34 | Imperios | Hm? |
18:44.45 | Charles_Murray | Greek politics during WWI |
18:44.47 | Charles_Murray | Holy frick |
18:44.48 | Charles_Murray | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaeTv0GzjIc |
18:47.13 | Imperios | >Eleftherios |
18:47.21 | Imperios | So his name was literally "Freedom" |
18:49.09 | Imperios | Charles_Murray: <REMOVE KEBAB/GYROS INTENSIFIES> |
18:49.39 | Charles_Bot | Lol |
18:51.51 | Monet | http://www.techradar.com/us/news/wearables/space-is-the-next-frontier-for-vr-thanks-to-this-satellite-1326253?src=rss&attr=all |
18:56.24 | *** join/#sporewiki dino82_ (52b0ddef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.176.221.239) |
18:57.11 | Tek0516 | Charles_Murray: Oh hey, I've been watching that series |
18:59.41 | Wormy_ | Looks exciting monet |
19:01.13 | Tek0516 | Monet: Now I just need VR in time. XD |
19:01.41 | Wormy_ | Maybe one day people will control little vehicles to move about on the Moon or even further and take point cloud snapshots for VR telepresence. There would be a time day of course, but if it maps enough detail it might be worth it |
19:02.15 | Wormy_ | *a time delay |
19:03.06 | Wormy_ | Geologists are already doing this on the Earth |
19:04.16 | dino82_ | hi all |
19:07.56 | Monet | Nice |
19:11.30 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (97e0b138@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.224.177.56) |
19:13.02 | Xho | meow |
19:13.14 | Xho | Hachiman: You checked the new Meshuggah single |
19:13.57 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapPlayer (b164ff46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.100.255.70) |
19:13.57 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapPlayer] by ChanServ |
19:14.02 | Xho | ups |
19:14.09 | OluapPlayer | ack |
19:14.13 | Monet | Hi |
19:18.56 | Xho | So Meshuggah released a new single |
19:18.58 | Xho | Xho is now happy Xho |
19:19.21 | Xho | The lyrics perfectly fit the Xhodocto as well |
19:19.22 | Xho | tis funny |
19:19.55 | OluapPlayer | Moshoggoh |
19:20.09 | Xho | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtO3VCu5wv4 heavier than a black hole |
19:22.03 | OluapPlayer | 2heavy4me |
19:22.20 | Xho | It's pretty heavy even for Meshuggah |
19:23.57 | OluapPlayer | Sounds good though. Not to big into heavy metal but sounds good |
19:24.35 | Xho | meshuggah is <3 |
19:25.15 | Hachiman | >heavy metal |
19:25.18 | Hachiman | its deff metal u dingus |
19:25.25 | Hachiman | Also yeah, I like it a lot |
19:25.46 | Xho | Studio monitors make it so much better as well |
19:25.49 | Xho | My room shakes |
19:26.07 | OluapPlayer | Most metal genres sound the same to me |
19:26.22 | Xho | Heavy Metal is actually like the lightest metal genre |
19:26.25 | Xho | which is funny |
19:26.36 | OluapPlayer | dun make sense dat |
19:26.41 | OluapPlayer | Also http://dukenukem.com/index/ BALLS OF STEEL |
19:27.44 | Xho | Evidently 21 years old is not old enough |
19:28.16 | Monet | Death metal's pretty heavy. |
19:28.26 | Monet | ...I think |
19:28.30 | OluapPlayer | I'd say it can't be any worse than Duke Nukem Forever |
19:28.43 | OluapPlayer | But at this point, I'm willing to believe in anything |
19:28.48 | Xho | I don't know of many bands heavier than Meshuggah though |
19:28.56 | Imperios | Xho: What about power metal? |
19:28.59 | Xho | Sunn O))) might qualify |
19:28.59 | Imperios | I'd say it's lighte |
19:29.00 | Imperios | r |
19:29.05 | Imperios | >O))) |
19:29.12 | Xho | Oh yeah power metal and hair metal are light |
19:29.16 | Imperios | Why the Russian smileys? |
19:29.19 | OluapPlayer | hair metal |
19:29.25 | OluapPlayer | What the fuck |
19:29.35 | Xho | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5P7bo5hKgQ&list=PLwPBM4hpb3mOo0eD4N-dMMtjYnMQ-6M0z Sunn O))) is literally the sound of the void |
19:29.40 | Hachiman | Hair metal, as in, things like Kiss |
19:29.53 | Hachiman | Or bands that have taken after their image |
19:30.05 | OluapPlayer | Is it because of their long hair? |
19:30.08 | Xho | yup |
19:30.13 | OluapPlayer | That's a goddamn stupid name for a music genre hur |
19:30.21 | Hachiman | Hair metal in general is stupid hur |
19:30.35 | Xho | That is the general idea of the genre |
19:30.40 | Hachiman | And yeah, Sunn O))) is heavier than Meshuggah; although I can guarantee that most, if not all, grindcore stuff is heavier than Meshuggah |
19:30.53 | Xho | They do borderline on to noise though |
19:31.01 | Hachiman | Grindcore is far too heavy for me to appreciate |
19:31.03 | Xho | Meshuggah is probably as heavy as it gets before getting weird |
19:31.37 | OluapPlayer | growls so heavy they crush the listener |
19:31.39 | Hachiman | 55Gore is like the heaviest band that I know of |
19:31.46 | Hachiman | And I can't listen to them |
19:31.48 | Xho | Not sure what the heaviest Meshuggah song is though; Bleed probably |
19:31.52 | Hachiman | Due to being extremely heavy grindcore |
19:32.11 | Xho | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4GXNzom6ik Also an absolute dick rhythmically |
19:32.37 | OluapPlayer | I'm shit when it comes to music since I prefer to listen to instrumental tracks |
19:32.41 | Xho | It was so hard to do in the studio it took them roughly the same amount of time to record as they did all the other songs on the album together |
19:32.49 | Xho | OluapPlayer: You'd like Animals As Leaders then |
19:33.00 | Monet | I'll stick with my old rock bands. |
19:33.03 | OluapPlayer | Animals As Leaders |
19:33.08 | OluapPlayer | That's SporeWIki in a nutshell |
19:33.11 | Hachiman | hur |
19:33.19 | Hachiman | That reminds me |
19:33.22 | Xho | well ur not wrong |
19:33.29 | Hachiman | I'm gonna be probably unavailable this weekend |
19:33.37 | Xho | u dik |
19:33.39 | OluapPlayer | You're always unavailable |
19:33.47 | Hachiman | My friend is playing his last gig at the pub before he leaves for university in September |
19:33.50 | Xho | OluapPlayer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSVwcRcMIk |
19:33.55 | Monet | Welcome to the first world. |
19:34.08 | Hachiman | It's a two day, whole weekend metal experience with a line-up of eight bands over the course of two nights |
19:34.34 | DrodoEmpire | Oh cool |
19:35.34 | OluapPlayer | Xho: Wow that sounds great |
19:35.45 | Xho | Animals As Leaders in general is a great band |
19:35.51 | Xho | All of their tracks are instrumentals so |
19:35.55 | Xho | listen to them |
19:36.14 | OluapPlayer | I'm somewhat confused by the idea of a band that makes music without lyrics |
19:36.14 | Xho | If you want more digital sounding stuff check out their first album |
19:36.21 | Xho | They're jazz influenced |
19:36.27 | Xho | Jazz is mostly instrumental as a genre |
19:36.36 | Xho | Or non-lexical at least |
19:36.57 | Xho | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jXQOIbIAsY This is my favourite song off the first album |
19:37.24 | OluapPlayer | "hey guys let's do a karaoke" "Next up: Animals As Leaders" |
19:37.32 | Xho | Bearing in mind that the entire instrumental is on the guitar basically means the guitarist is insane |
19:38.17 | Monet | OluapPlayer: "band that makes music without lyrics" it's a stretch but that's a good description of an orchestra |
19:38.42 | Xho | There are lots of instrumental bands |
19:38.53 | Xho | It's not a mainstream trend granted but still |
19:39.52 | Xho | I can kinda play that song on guitar |
19:39.54 | Xho | Or bits of it |
19:40.00 | Xho | Animals As Leaders is 11/10 hard |
19:40.17 | OluapPlayer | rip fingers |
19:40.22 | Monet | Although an orchestra might not count due to structural differences. |
19:40.43 | OluapPlayer | Orchestras aren't a mainstream thing |
19:40.48 | OluapPlayer | At least not over here |
19:40.52 | Xho | Depends on what genre |
19:40.56 | Xho | Symphonic metal is a thing |
19:43.47 | Monet | OluapPLayer: Well you said you listen to a lot of instrumental music. |
19:43.55 | Xho | yeah boiiii |
19:44.05 | Monet | A lot of video game music is created by an orchestra |
19:44.26 | OluapPlayer | Xho: also dat track gud |
19:45.22 | Monet | The Halo theme and Dovahkiin are good examples, probably a lot of Dark Souls' tunes. |
19:45.42 | OluapPlayer | Dark Souls music is very orchestral yeah |
19:45.45 | Xho | Monet: Granted if you have Native Instruments addons you can have your own orchestra on a computer |
19:46.11 | OluapPlayer | But that's the thing with me, I generally just listen to videogame music, not the stuff generally made by bands for the public |
19:47.14 | Monet | Xho: Dats cheetin |
19:47.41 | Monet | OluapPLayer: I'm the same. |
19:49.55 | Monet | I listen to stuff produced by Two Steps from Hell regularly, and their primary avenue is music for advertising. |
19:51.21 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: "Timbits Poutine". You can almost taste the Canadian in the name |
19:52.22 | NeonPanda | needs more maple |
19:53.00 | Xho | eh |
19:54.39 | DrodoEmpire | Tek0516: ohgod what |
19:54.49 | DrodoEmpire | I'll need to head down to a Tim's to see that >.< |
19:55.15 | DrodoEmpire | Or whereever they decide to sell that monstrosity |
19:55.18 | Xho | http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/940/559/e5f.jpg |
19:55.42 | DrodoEmpire | OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH |
19:55.44 | DrodoEmpire | <.< |
19:55.50 | Tek0516 | DrodoEmpire: CNE exclusive. This place has crazy food |
19:56.00 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh |
19:56.59 | OluapPlayer | Funny because I just spent around 6 hours playing GTA: SA nonstop |
19:57.33 | OluapPlayer | I still think whoever decided to add rhythm-minigame-based missions in the game deserves a very stern yelling |
19:58.01 | Tek0516 | Next to it sells stuff like a glazed donut cheeseburger, a churro cheeseburger, and waffles with fried chicken |
19:58.05 | OluapPlayer | I remember those making me furious back when I was younger |
19:58.46 | DrodoEmpire | Jeez.... |
19:59.18 | OluapPlayer | Still it's like a whole new experience now that I'm playing with a full grasp of the english langauge. I can actually tell what's going on |
19:59.23 | OluapPlayer | language even |
19:59.52 | Monet | Its a very different experience. |
20:00.04 | Xho | You have to speak English natively to almost understand it kek |
20:00.16 | OluapPlayer | When I first played it I was like, 15 or so |
20:00.22 | Monet | WHen I first played GTA III I don't think I was well aware of what Smack was. |
20:00.39 | OluapPlayer | All I knew was "black guys in green = good. Black guys in purple = bad" |
20:00.45 | Xho | ballas |
20:00.51 | OluapPlayer | u a busta |
20:01.02 | Xho | Latino guys in yellow = also bad |
20:01.06 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
20:01.08 | OluapPlayer | Yes that too |
20:02.52 | OluapPlayer | http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/153/007/aeb.jpg |
20:02.54 | Monet | One thing I recall not realising until an adult playthrough was why Ryder dug so many holes in his garden. |
20:03.30 | Monet | Then I was 18 and realised he was looking for a buried stash of weed or something. |
20:03.56 | OluapPlayer | Yeah I never understood that until I replayed that mission today |
20:07.08 | OluapPlayer | http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/568/053/063.jpg clever |
20:08.01 | Monet | I wanted to kill Ryder for the number of times he called me a buster. And that was before getting kicked out of LS. |
20:08.10 | *** join/#sporewiki Groxkiller98 (520393e3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.3.147.227) |
20:08.31 | Groxkiller98 | Heya. |
20:08.57 | Groxkiller98 | Can I get peoples opinions on something a tad petty for my fiction? |
20:09.09 | Groxkiller98 | Antimatter or Nuclear Drives? |
20:10.00 | Groxkiller98 | For both conventional engines and Hyperdrive engines... |
20:10.59 | Monet | Nuclear as in nuclear fission? Or fusion? |
20:11.23 | Groxkiller98 | Which ever is better. |
20:12.33 | Xho | Fusion usually |
20:12.36 | Xho | I think |
20:12.43 | Monet | Fusion then - nuclear fission won't generate enough and hampers propulsion by way of the several tonnes of shielding you need to make it safe to work around. |
20:12.55 | Groxkiller98 | Well, Anti-Matter, or Nuclear Fission? |
20:13.01 | Groxkiller98 | Fusion* |
20:13.51 | Groxkiller98 | Both have pros and con (expense, effect, danger, ect). I want to know what would be best. |
20:16.36 | Groxkiller98 | Also... I'm thinking of having a Teyan Civil war ongoing... Not sure how I'd handle it, though. |
20:16.36 | Monet | As i nenergy output? |
20:16.42 | Groxkiller98 | Yeah. |
20:16.50 | Monet | Antimatter might be best |
20:17.21 | Monet | The amount of energy you can get out is e = mc2/2 |
20:19.38 | Ghelae | Antimatter definitely provides the most energy output, although input (e.g. making and storing the antimatter) is another matter. |
20:19.45 | Xho | Hachiman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLQQI1_cqWA PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY |
20:20.30 | Groxkiller98 | Yeah. Anti-matter is kinda expensive. |
20:21.00 | Groxkiller98 | Even Antihydrogen is considerably more expensive than uranium, and that's the cheapest Antiparticle we know off. |
20:21.17 | Groxkiller98 | Or Antielement, anyway. |
20:21.32 | Ghelae | If you have some of the more advanced SporeWikiverse technology, like Q-balls and monopoles, it should become a lot cheaper. |
20:21.45 | Tek0516 | And swords are cheaper than guns. Cheaper isn't better. |
20:22.33 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
20:22.34 | Groxkiller98 | True |
20:22.36 | Ghelae | No, but we've already said that antimatter is a more effective propellant than fusion. |
20:22.48 | DrodoEmpire | Most civilised powers use antimatter, or Andasium |
20:22.51 | DrodoEmpire | Usually both |
20:22.59 | Ghelae | Storing it isn't a problem when you can create it on demand either. |
20:23.03 | Groxkiller98 | But there's the question of it's it's affordable for the Mithadorn. Or at least cost-effective. |
20:23.43 | Groxkiller98 | They'd probably struggle to support fuelling fleets with Antimatter... But would likely be able to just do so... |
20:24.11 | Ghelae | Your cost is primarily going to be making and storing the Q-balls or monopoles, if you have the technology. In either case they are catalysts rather than reactants, but you still need a lot of them. |
20:24.24 | dino82_ | bye bye |
20:24.26 | Groxkiller98 | I have no idea what a Q-ball is. |
20:24.33 | DrodoEmpire | bye |
20:24.37 | Groxkiller98 | And Monopoles aren't something the Mithadorn know how to use. |
20:24.38 | Groxkiller98 | Bai. |
20:25.30 | Ghelae | Q-balls and monopoles are kind of opposites to each other (the namesake property of monopoles, their magnetic charge, isn't relevant for their antimatter production). |
20:26.17 | Groxkiller98 | It might be easier to just import the Antimatter from you then. :P |
20:26.31 | Groxkiller98 | Because I couldn't figure out how to make that work. |
20:27.29 | Ghelae | In each case, they're based around a scalar field, like the Higgs. In monopoles, it's a field whose value is nonzero throughout the vacuum but becomes zero in the core, while for Q-balls, it's the other way around. |
20:27.41 | Monet | If it's not cost-effective to make there's always importing it. |
20:27.49 | Monet | Or looking for investors to set up factories. |
20:28.03 | Monet | or distribution branches |
20:29.20 | Groxkiller98 | Oh, btw, I'm developing a new Flagship. :P |
20:29.23 | Ghelae | In monopoles, the absence of the Higgs-like field in the core means that the particles which convert quarks to antileptons become massless, so the rate at which they make protons decay increases. In Q-balls, the field interacts directly with the fermions and absorbs any excess charge. |
20:29.28 | Ghelae | In case you were wondering. |
20:29.37 | Groxkiller98 | After my last one was blown up in the Mithadorn-Xilic-Draecorran war. |
20:29.46 | Xho | Hachiman: Trying to think of a quote for Vaxal but all I can think of is abusive Xhodocto quotes |
20:29.55 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
20:31.55 | Xho | OluapPlayer: pls do something about zagdala breek |
20:32.23 | OluapPlayer | I don't intend to |
20:32.35 | Xho | NOOH |
20:36.32 | Xho | I think Angazhar would admire the Accursed Quinquennium |
20:36.53 | Xho | In his hateful way |
20:38.34 | Groxkiller98 | Does Titan's Mercy sound like a good name for a military Flagship? |
20:38.51 | Xho | Sounds pretty good to me |
20:40.40 | Groxkiller98 | It's gonna have a massive moon-cracking plasma cannon on the front. |
20:40.55 | Groxkiller98 | The kind that could make one thing twice about flying in-front of it. |
20:45.29 | Groxkiller98 | The gun barrel is about four miles long as well, powered by twenty reactors. |
20:48.55 | Groxkiller98 | Say, could someone help me write a civil-war for the Teyan. An ongoing one. |
20:49.42 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (32b8eef8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.184.238.248) |
20:49.52 | Monet | Why so many reacotrs? |
20:50.02 | Monet | What about one or two big reactors? |
20:50.22 | Groxkiller98 | They're all big reactors. |
20:50.32 | Groxkiller98 | It's moon-cracking, planet-killing. |
20:50.35 | Groxkiller98 | OVERKILL! |
20:50.56 | Monet | Eh, can't argue with a big-stick weapon. |
20:52.50 | Groxkiller98 | It's the "Get out of the way, or I blow you a new-one" gun! |
20:52.59 | Tek0516 | O.O It was raining so hard this building had waterfalls coming off the roof. |
20:53.19 | Groxkiller98 | Though officially, the cannon is known as "The Moon Cracker" |
20:53.29 | Groxkiller98 | Or, "Titan's Fury" |
20:54.44 | Groxkiller98 | Call it what you want, it's designed to be overkill. |
20:55.08 | Charles_Murray | France - Not sure that'll actually be useful |
20:56.08 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
20:56.31 | Groxkiller98 | Mithadorn - Don't care! It makes things go boom! |
20:57.10 | Tek0516 | FTC - We'll just annihilate it with a fleet of battleships that cost the same. |
20:58.01 | Charles_Murray | France - y even battleships when you can use a small fleet of fighters which cost even less |
20:58.20 | Monet | Charles_Murray: As I mentioned it sounds like a big stick policy |
20:58.25 | Tek0516 | FTC - Actually, f*** it. Just blast them with Angelfire from a few systems away |
20:58.33 | Monet | "you guys have nukes, well we built a bigger nuke!" |
20:58.44 | Charles_Murray | Monet That's not how it works >.< |
20:59.10 | Charles_Murray | Big stick policy is not just about bigger guns, it's also about those guns being capable of being used in real combat |
20:59.14 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
20:59.25 | Groxkiller98 | Well, I'll point it at your homeworld. Then what? |
20:59.34 | Groxkiller98 | It's like a ranged-planetbuster. |
20:59.35 | Charles_Murray | You have to get there first |
20:59.39 | Monet | Yeah |
20:59.47 | Groxkiller98 | Well, it's capable of firing over Lightyears of distance. |
20:59.54 | Monet | How many |
21:00.06 | Groxkiller98 | About thirty. |
21:00.34 | Groxkiller98 | It's not meant to be practical. Just overkill. :P |
21:00.38 | Monet | Permission to laugh out loud, sir! |
21:00.39 | Xho | Kicath - fukn |
21:00.44 | DrodoEmpire | Then at best its an oversized angelfire >.< |
21:00.46 | Charles_Murray | That's a third of a galaxy, and implies that it would take thirty years to get to its target |
21:01.01 | Charles_Murray | Well no, since you can move in thirty years lol |
21:01.13 | Xho | Needs hyperspatial missles pronto |
21:01.29 | Monet | Charles: Make that a three-thousanth of a galaxy. |
21:01.35 | Charles_Murray | Oh whoops |
21:01.46 | Charles_Murray | 30,000 is a third, my bad |
21:02.14 | Tek0516 | Why bust a planet when you can annihilate their entire military capacity with thousands of missiles? :P |
21:02.29 | Charles_Murray | There were only three battles involving battleships throughout history, but every single nation was working extremely hard to develop and become proficient at battleship tactics just in case a battle between their huge honking (and ultimately useless) big sticks actually happened |
21:02.41 | DrodoEmpire | It'd be a terrifying terror weapon, surely |
21:02.43 | DrodoEmpire | But not practical |
21:03.08 | Groxkiller98 | Well, scaring your enemy shitless always works, no? |
21:03.10 | drom | What did I run into now? :o |
21:03.15 | DrodoEmpire | It can |
21:03.20 | DrodoEmpire | Morale's always been important |
21:03.24 | Groxkiller98 | "Get lost, before I point my overcompensating, overkill weapon at you." |
21:03.28 | Charles_Murray | Groxkiller98: For strategic deterrence, I'd go with guided FTL hyperspatial cruise missiles carrying a nuclear payload |
21:03.32 | drom | Anyway. Had I been pinged while I was away? |
21:03.53 | Monet | Charles_Murray: That's why Draocnid doctrine fits their battleships with artillery capability |
21:04.02 | drom | My IRC bouncer isn't the best sort. So I'd like to know if anyone tried to get me while I was away. |
21:04.05 | Groxkiller98 | Charles_Murray: It's not meant to be practical or useful. It's just meant to be big and flashy. |
21:04.12 | Xho | Why not destroy the entire galaxy via gridfire |
21:04.18 | Xho | that way no one complains |
21:04.23 | Xho | cause they're dead |
21:04.35 | drom | All expect the Xhodocto |
21:04.37 | Charles_Murray | Groxkiller98 : Won't take 30 years to get anywhere, and will be able to hit targets not 30 ly away, but a whole galaxy away if you have the infrastructure for it |
21:04.43 | Tek0516 | Charles_Murray: Didn't the WWI powers spent most of the war trying *not* to use their battleships too. :P |
21:04.46 | drom | Because they have no more toys to play with, Xho. |
21:04.53 | Xho | Hachiman: Apparently the track called Clockworks on the new Meshuggah album is complex enough that it took them at least 50 takes in rehearsal and 20 takes in the studio |
21:04.58 | Monet | GroxKiller: Part of what made nukes such a threat was they were a somewhat viable weapon. They were expensive but the first ones could be dropped like bombs. |
21:05.06 | Groxkiller98 | The Mithadorn aren't exactly the whole of Andromeda. XD |
21:05.19 | Charles_Murray | Tek0516: More complicated than that |
21:05.30 | Groxkiller98 | The gun is just meant to be flashy, guys. Stop poking holes in it! |
21:06.03 | DrodoEmpire | As well, weapons that annihilate a world in such a way are banned under the Declaration of the Conduct of War, which had been adopted as the framework for the UGA's war laws I do believe |
21:06.07 | DrodoEmpire | Assuming you're part of the UGA |
21:06.18 | DrodoEmpire | Well you admit its impractical, but a terror weapon |
21:06.21 | DrodoEmpire | Fair enough I guess |
21:06.24 | Charles_Murray | Right, but the next time the Mithadorn come into contact with a navy that actually uses its resources sensibly and efficiently, good luck |
21:06.31 | Xho | Groxkiller98: Welcome to SporeWiki, where science trolls everything |
21:06.36 | Monet | We're making holes because "because it's cool" can only get you so far in war. |
21:06.42 | DrodoEmpire | Xho: Military science anyway |
21:06.58 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101 (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
21:07.12 | DrodoEmpire | Though seriously guys |
21:07.12 | Groxkiller98 | I'm pretty sure it's not even scientifically possible to power, anyway. |
21:07.17 | DrodoEmpire | Stop dogpiling |
21:07.20 | DrodoEmpire | Oh its certainly possible |
21:07.32 | Groxkiller98 | It's a big, flashy gun. It's not meant to work effectively. XD |
21:07.39 | DrodoEmpire | Groxkiller isn't saying its a practical weapon of war its more for terror reasons |
21:07.40 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
21:07.47 | Groxkiller98 | I doubt I could actually powerful. |
21:07.50 | Monet | People won't be scared if it's not at least marginally effective. |
21:07.52 | Groxkiller98 | power it* |
21:08.04 | Groxkiller98 | Well, there's the fact it can split a moon apart. |
21:08.04 | DrodoEmpire | Monet: Ehh, civilians and news media are irrational though |
21:08.11 | Charles_Murray | And the wiki's resident PS student is saying that it would be useless for terror purposes |
21:08.15 | DrodoEmpire | It could be used to bully powers smaller than the Mithadorn |
21:08.17 | Xho | http://genius.com/Meshuggah-born-in-dissonance-lyrics All I'm saying is that the new Meshuggah song has Xhodocto lyrics in it |
21:08.25 | Groxkiller98 | "It blows moons up?! Don't poss them off!" |
21:08.28 | Groxkiller98 | piss* |
21:08.40 | ZF101 | Hello all. |
21:09.10 | ZF101 | So, it looks like I'm not alone in wanting to blow up the moon. Good. |
21:09.44 | Charles_Murray | Because for something to have any value for deterrence ("terror, it should actually be conceivable that it could be used to harm someone or something dear to the person being deterred. |
21:09.49 | Monet | Eh maybe we should cut Groxkiller some slack. Sporewiki does have a Death Starkiller Base. |
21:10.02 | DrodoEmpire | Yes |
21:10.03 | DrodoEmpire | We should |
21:10.22 | Imperios | DrodoEmpire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbegXXI0RFg |
21:10.27 | Charles_Murray | Alright |
21:11.32 | Xho | I don't like the necessity for scientific explanation on this wiki |
21:11.43 | Xho | It's sci-fi yes but the amount of thought put into it is not fun |
21:11.44 | Groxkiller98 | I just like big guns. :P |
21:11.50 | Imperios | What are we talking about? |
21:11.51 | DrodoEmpire | There's a degree of rule of cool I like |
21:11.51 | Monet | Xho: We're nerds. |
21:12.04 | Xho | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsPheErBj8 |
21:12.07 | DrodoEmpire | Groxkiller98: That's fine, and you recognise the drawbacks |
21:12.13 | Groxkiller98 | ^_^ |
21:12.49 | Groxkiller98 | Still, don't give the Mithadorn to make it's next shot hit you - It may be hugely impractical, but it still works. Ish. |
21:13.51 | Groxkiller98 | Now, that makes two Flagships. Titan's Mercy, and The Horizon. |
21:14.15 | Monet | Xho: Nerd and proud. |
21:14.20 | Groxkiller98 | They're also supermassive spaceships. :P |
21:14.23 | Xho | fair |
21:14.32 | Xho | I'm a nerd to some degree |
21:14.50 | Groxkiller98 | Like, as big as Darth Vader's Super-Star-Destroyer. |
21:14.51 | Xho | I downplay it a lot with a lot of swearing |
21:14.57 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
21:15.16 | Monet | Actually that NEEEERD joke is hilarious because I've been in university three years, geek about anime and comics and that's -never- happened to me. |
21:15.36 | Xho | The nerd trope is probably at its most accepted now |
21:15.55 | Monet | That or everyone's a nerd of some degree at university. |
21:15.59 | Xho | Probably |
21:16.00 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
21:16.14 | Xho | You need to be some sort of intelligent to be at university in the first place |
21:16.19 | Groxkiller98 | Oh, also, all the Mithadorn starship tech comes in part from the Draekar Remenant's now. |
21:16.36 | Xho | Or at least have the academic system down to a T |
21:16.46 | Monet | Xho: Intelligent and wanting to learn. |
21:16.48 | Groxkiller98 | Because of the whole war with them. The Mithadorn got a load of sweet military loot. |
21:17.02 | Xho | I don't necessarily believe that academia translates to actual intelligence although it does show a capacity to learn |
21:17.29 | Xho | University sort of challenges that belief but I haven't been to university so |
21:17.36 | Monet | Like a lot of the slackers die out at university level because it's just not worth the money to attend university and coast your classes. |
21:17.59 | Groxkiller98 | I'm not very academic. |
21:18.11 | Groxkiller98 | But apparently I'm also a know-it-all. >_> |
21:18.14 | Xho | I'm good at academics but I hate education |
21:18.31 | Monet | And yeah, university demonstrates the difference between being knowledgeable and being intelligent. |
21:18.35 | Xho | It's all humdrum to me |
21:19.24 | Xho | Sitting down and reading or listening to a teacher or lecturer is not the way I like to learn |
21:19.31 | Monet | Like even in academic courses you'll be writing a dissertation. Or if you're doing a doctorate, a thesis. |
21:19.45 | Tek0516 | Some of my first year classes had half the peoplecdisappear by the end so even there it filters out a lot. |
21:20.08 | Monet | Wait or would that more be significant for vocational courses? |
21:20.32 | Monet | Tek0516: Yeah the end of the first year is when most people disappear. |
21:21.00 | Monet | Xho: Depends on what you want to do. |
21:21.12 | Xho | I guess |
21:21.22 | Xho | I have no real direction though |
21:21.31 | Xho | Everything I do ends up boring me |
21:21.37 | Monet | Doing animation, I have only one lecture a week, a couple of workshops, most of my stuff is personal project work. |
21:22.07 | Groxkiller98 | Ever animated Spore? |
21:22.25 | Monet | Spore is baby stuff compared to what I do. |
21:22.31 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
21:22.47 | Monet | I actually made a showreel the other day if you want an idea of what I do. |
21:23.11 | Xho | I would like to do things related to music although I have no creative outlet and therefore it's a wasted element |
21:23.21 | Xho | Everything else is uninteresting |
21:23.39 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
21:24.00 | drom | Charles_Murray Monet Wormy_: I'm thinking about rewriting/restarting NS as a different fiction with equal technology, but adapted to a more hard level of sci-fi. |
21:24.03 | Groxkiller98 | I think my Spore account has been hacked... Someone has changed my password... |
21:25.33 | Monet | drom: OKay |
21:26.30 | Groxkiller98 | https://s10.postimg.io/opol9lkl5/Admiral_Hael_Deur.png |
21:27.42 | Groxkiller98 | Is that a cool pic? :3 |
21:27.49 | drom | Going to enjoy deleting any instance of "world-destroying" weapons and non-centrifugal artifical gravity in my fiction. |
21:28.48 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
21:28.51 | drom | Anyway, Wormy_. I came to think of something |
21:30.01 | drom | Since I've been enrolled to this university. I've to take the bus and ride it for one hour straight to the nearest train station that has a train rolling between said seat of education and that station. |
21:30.08 | drom | The train ride takes one hour, too. |
21:30.24 | drom | Then bus from the station to the uni |
21:30.28 | drom | Ten minutes. |
21:31.01 | drom | Let's see, total travel time, not counting waiting. Two hours and ten minutes. |
21:31.43 | drom | Oh, I forgot that I've to walk twenty minutes between my home and bus stop. Because life out in the country. |
21:32.25 | drom | Add the average additional time spent on waiting: half a hour. |
21:32.26 | Groxkiller98 | D: I can't even request a password reset! |
21:32.53 | drom | Total time spent on travel from my home to university: three hours |
21:33.10 | drom | Double that when going back to home |
21:36.16 | drom | Six hours spent on travelling, every day I have to or have to go to the university. |
21:36.24 | Groxkiller98 | I've actually lost my Spore account... :'( |
21:36.47 | drom | For instance today, I did so to only wait and attend a 2 hour lecture on mathematics |
21:36.53 | drom | Then go home |
21:37.08 | Monet | Xho: So is music the only thing you find yourself consistently enjoying? |
21:37.14 | Xho | More or less |
21:37.25 | Xho | 99.9% of my gripe with existence is the people I'm surrounded with |
21:37.57 | Xho | A big part of me wants to move away from Southampton and make new friends somewhere else |
21:38.06 | Xho | Or a big reset button |
21:38.08 | Monet | University can do that for you. |
21:38.11 | Monet | Worked for me. |
21:38.26 | Xho | I'm gonna have to wait until next year now |
21:38.42 | DrodoEmpire | Groxkiller98: Nobody's interested in hacking anything related to Spore anymore >.< Restart the game, make sure there's nothing wrong with your internet, make sure you got the right password and email, try again |
21:38.51 | DrodoEmpire | Make sure the servers are up |
21:38.58 | Groxkiller98 | It's my password... |
21:39.11 | Groxkiller98 | And I can't get an email sent to reset it. |
21:39.17 | DrodoEmpire | Shit happens mate |
21:39.21 | Groxkiller98 | Because I keep getting internal server errors. |
21:39.32 | DrodoEmpire | Follow my instructions, and check the state of spore server |
21:39.33 | DrodoEmpire | *s |
21:39.41 | Tek0516 | Well inthat cases there's obviously server problems. |
21:39.45 | Groxkiller98 | How? |
21:39.59 | Groxkiller98 | I've been unable to log in for more than a month now. >_> |
21:40.12 | drom | Who needs sporepedia anyway? |
21:40.12 | Groxkiller98 | I've only just bothered looking into it being my password... |
21:40.21 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
21:40.26 | Tek0516 | Then contact EA directly. |
21:40.27 | drom | You can still share them manually. |
21:40.27 | Groxkiller98 | I would like my Sporepedia. |
21:40.34 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
21:40.35 | Xho | oh god |
21:40.51 | Tek0516 | They have a customer support exactly for this reason. :P |
21:40.59 | Xho | Well I'm not a fan of anyone in Southampton including my family |
21:41.17 | Xho | Not including my immediate family that is |
21:41.24 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
21:41.36 | Groxkiller98 | Also, the Sporum is giving me a captcha now. Is that usual? |
21:41.37 | Xho | Anything outside of it are weird and rather horrible human beings |
21:42.03 | DrodoEmpire | Dunno, roll with it Grox |
21:42.11 | Groxkiller98 | Ugh. I'm going to bed. |
21:42.18 | DrodoEmpire | Alright...? |
21:42.25 | Monet | I'll ahve a look but many universities hold student fairs around this time of year |
21:42.26 | Tek0516 | I only know two of people in my entire graduating class (~500 people) who went to the same university as me. |
21:42.32 | DrodoEmpire | DOn't take it out on us, just trying to help |
21:43.00 | Xho | By the looks of things if I do go to a music-based uni I have to do an audition |
21:43.16 | Monet | ah |
21:43.23 | Tek0516 | Groxkiller98: Just contact EA's customer support directly and ask for help. AFAIK there's both a phone and live digital option. |
21:43.39 | Monet | Xho: What about a career in sound design? |
21:43.45 | Xho | Hm |
21:43.47 | Xho | not bad idea |
21:44.50 | Xho | Thing is, if I do go to a music uni there isn't that much they could teach me |
21:45.03 | Xho | Theoretically speaking I'm quite well versed |
21:45.36 | Monet | Yeah there's not much they can offer at your stage. Aside from perhaps helping you become a performer. |
21:46.00 | Monet | Dunno how confident you are at putting yourself out there. |
21:46.30 | Xho | Well I'm not too bad with stage performances |
21:46.36 | Xho | I've been told I have some stage presence before |
21:47.03 | Xho | From what I'm checking through forums about levels of theoretical knowledge I'm quite far beyond that standard |
21:47.23 | Monet | Creative colleges can also help students land contacts. |
21:48.06 | Xho | That's my main reasoning for going |
21:48.20 | Xho | Hopefully a contact base would assist me in life to some point |
21:48.35 | Xho | "Obviously make sure you're savvy with your pentatonics and your CAGED chords and you'll be fine." |
21:48.39 | Xho | >pentatonics |
21:50.21 | Monet | Every year my course leader holds a tombola of prizes he gathers by pulling strings with former clients or people he knows. Prizes can range from limited edition items, to work experience placements, free online subscriptions, in my first year a £1000 cintiq drawing tablet was on offer. |
21:50.36 | Xho | noice |
21:51.42 | Monet | All stuff he managed to get by industry people he knew |
21:52.07 | Monet | My mum has always told me that success can often be to do with who you know. |
21:52.53 | Xho | I'd agree |
21:54.01 | Xho | At the university I'm looking at I do have a chance of studying in Germany |
21:54.12 | Xho | Although with the current European crisis probably a bad idea |
21:54.53 | Imperios | Herr Xho |
21:54.58 | Monet | Do your research on alumni. VIsit campuses. |
21:55.25 | Monet | You might not be able to start until next year but it's never too early to start looking. |
21:56.38 | Monet | In fact you've probably picked one of the best times to consider - you'd have a whole year to find the uni that fits you. |
21:57.59 | Xho | Well I know which one I want to go to |
21:58.03 | Xho | Just gotta find the right campus |
21:58.32 | Xho | I can choose between Brighton, Bristol, London, Manchester, Dublin and Berlin |
21:58.50 | Monet | The best thing you can do is visit on open days. |
21:59.13 | Monet | See the campus, ask about the curriculum and the accommodation. |
21:59.48 | Xho | rite |
22:01.51 | Xho | Gonna be a little weird though |
22:02.01 | Xho | I'm gonna be nearly 23 by the time I start |
22:02.30 | Xho | A good deal of them are gonna be 18/19 |
22:02.42 | Xho | Is this where I start feeling old |
22:03.34 | Monet | I was 22 when I started. |
22:03.46 | Xho | Hm |
22:04.02 | Monet | However I share a class with two mothers and a guy who's in his late 20s and just got married. |
22:04.17 | Xho | I don't know how the whole technical side of applying actually works |
22:04.23 | Xho | Through this UCAS system or something |
22:05.03 | Monet | UCAS is the conventional way. |
22:05.12 | Xho | Surely it would be a bit folly considering I finished education 3 years ago |
22:05.34 | Monet | The alternative is to see if you can send a direct application. |
22:05.51 | Xho | Probably where the audition side of it comes in |
22:05.59 | Xho | I'd need to pick a good song to audition with |
22:06.04 | drom | thinks about spring-powered flechette guns |
22:06.18 | Wormy_ | drom: So plenty of time for doing some fiction? |
22:06.32 | Wormy_ | Regarding your earlier messages |
22:06.36 | Wormy_ | I was having a nap |
22:06.55 | drom | Wormy_: Kind of, expect I spend most of the time staring at the same landscape scrolling past me. |
22:07.16 | Monet | Xho: First you'll need to provide applicant details and a cover letter explaining why you wish to attend that university. |
22:07.25 | Xho | "cuz i like guitars n shit lel" |
22:07.26 | Wormy_ | Is it pretty landscape though? |
22:07.38 | Xho | Well personal statements shouldn't be so hard |
22:07.45 | drom | Yeah. Expect I've seen the same landscape for 19 years now. |
22:07.49 | Xho | I managed to get a CV perfectly right first time |
22:08.04 | Monet | Fortunately for you, a lot of the guidelines for CV personal statements apply to university applications. |
22:08.25 | Monet | Stuff like the 8-second role. |
22:08.28 | Xho | Somehow getting a CV right is hard and I don't see how considering it's just professional layouts and raw detail |
22:08.29 | Wormy_ | For me, the countryside around never gets old. But my train journey doesn't really go through nice parts |
22:09.00 | drom | 1/3 of my travel is the same old landscape |
22:09.13 | drom | So old that I know how it looks like every season |
22:09.47 | Wormy_ | lol |
22:10.13 | drom | Anyway. |
22:10.18 | Wormy_ | Regarding the NS, perhaps they are a different, distant faction to the original? |
22:10.21 | Monet | Xho: That's a skill. |
22:10.52 | Xho | I guess it's probably from my job |
22:11.07 | Xho | I'm a designer by trade so things like that come easily |
22:11.11 | drom | Wormy_: I kinda urge to make them technologically advanced, but I restrict myself to using pausible and concept technology as we know it. |
22:11.26 | drom | I'm lowering the bar, but I'm still crazy. |
22:11.32 | Monet | Aside from CV writing, schoosl these days generally don't seem to teach skills useful for entrepreneurship unless you're into Young Enterprise. |
22:11.38 | Xho | ngh |
22:11.53 | Xho | I didn't actually write a CV until this year |
22:12.08 | Xho | Thankfully my job actually teaches me things about professional layouts so it was easy |
22:12.59 | Xho | I design things like letterheads and forms for businesses alongside business cards and whatnot so eye for detail is a requirement |
22:13.07 | Monet | Ez-peezee |
22:13.41 | Xho | Patience is also a requirement because sometimes you get multiple iterations of the same thing due to the indecision of the customer |
22:13.41 | drom | Wormy_: I'm looking at Project Rocket's page about crew sidearms |
22:14.14 | Monet | Xho: Aside fro ma lack of professional experience I wonder if some might consider me overqualified. |
22:14.15 | drom | After reading it, I'm dreaming about a bolt-action spring-powered rifle. |
22:14.26 | Xho | And my manager is a dick, surprisingly he hasn't had a flame extinguisher launched at his head |
22:14.31 | Wormy_ | cool |
22:14.40 | Xho | Monet: I'm massively overqualified for my job |
22:14.59 | Xho | I'm there mostly for the money and the fact that staying in a house 24/7 is unhealthy |
22:15.05 | drom | Wormy_: That shots various types of projectiles |
22:15.16 | drom | Flechettes being the primary one. |
22:15.25 | Monet | 9 GCSEs, two of which are A or above, a distinction-distinction-distinction in applied science, and a distinction-distinction-distinction in art and design. |
22:15.47 | Xho | distinction-distinction-distinction |
22:15.48 | Xho | eh |
22:16.04 | Monet | I did a couple of diplomas. |
22:16.07 | Xho | rite |
22:16.19 | Monet | Was a top-ranked student too :> |
22:16.35 | Wormy_ | drom: Sounds like a gun that can be easily modified from one type to another on the go |
22:16.49 | Monet | Maybe that's how I ended up in the top 10% of creative arts universities. |
22:17.07 | drom | Anyway, regarding the NS reboot. It is still NS, but reworked to fit my tastes. |
22:17.11 | Xho | I have 12 GCSEs, 3 were A and 3 A*, an A-Level in Spanish, Classical Civilisations and Sociology and somehow I'm working in a place with the average intellectual capacity of a flip flop |
22:17.22 | Xho | No wonder I hate Southampton |
22:17.44 | Monet | Try London. |
22:17.48 | Xho | No music qualification however, which right now is my biggest regret |
22:17.49 | drom | "with the average intellectual capacity of a flip flop" |
22:17.51 | drom | classic |
22:18.48 | Xho | A* were in English Language, Japanese and something else which I can't remember right now |
22:19.13 | Xho | Spanish dur |
22:19.16 | drom | Tek0516 Charles_Murray: Can I may inquire about your expertize on the idea of spring-powered bolt-action sniper-rifles in sci-fi environment like Sporeverse? |
22:19.28 | Xho | A in History, English Literature and Religious Studies |
22:19.41 | Xho | All my average grades were in sciences |
22:19.42 | Xho | because doi |
22:20.04 | drom | guh |
22:20.12 | Tek0516 | Drom: If anyone is qualified in that field it would be DrodoEmpire |
22:20.20 | drom | Grades are one reason I wouldn't talk too much about it. |
22:20.21 | Xho | My A-Levels weren't flaunt-worthy because I winged college |
22:20.26 | DrodoEmpire | Hm? |
22:20.37 | Xho | Mainly because I hated college with a passion so I just did the bare minimum |
22:20.43 | Tek0516 | Drom: Also, Sweden http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1472136214-20160825.png |
22:20.45 | drom | DrodoEmpire: Can I may inquire about your expertize on the idea of spring-powered bolt-action sniper-rifles in sci-fi environment like Sporeverse? |
22:20.55 | DrodoEmpire | What do you mean "spring-powered"? |
22:21.09 | DrodoEmpire | As for bolt-action weapons- they're good I guess |
22:21.31 | Xho | My highest science grade was Biology amazingly enough |
22:21.36 | DrodoEmpire | There's a bit of a back-and-forth argument over whether bolt-actions of semi-automatic rifles make better sniper rifles |
22:21.52 | DrodoEmpire | Some say bolt action rifles are more reliable, or they seal better |
22:22.02 | DrodoEmpire | And the rate of fire advantage is pointless anyway |
22:22.27 | drom | As I know bolt-action rifles are often more lethal due to the possiblity to fit large-calibre bullets compared to semi-automatics. |
22:22.44 | DrodoEmpire | I figure its less of a hassle to make a high-calibre (over .50 cal I guess) rifle bolt action or breechloading |
22:22.49 | Monet | "lololol MLG 360 noscope" pro marksman laughs his ass off |
22:23.00 | DrodoEmpire | "more lethal" rounds is a matter of circumstance |
22:23.11 | DrodoEmpire | But anyway that's all I can say as I'm no expert |
22:23.19 | DrodoEmpire | I may know a bit more than the average person I guess |
22:23.30 | drom | Spring-powered is when you use a compressed spring to launch a projectile. |
22:23.37 | drom | Most used in airsoft guns. |
22:23.51 | Xho | Barrett M82 a point blank range because that's how you kill someone |
22:23.52 | DrodoEmpire | There's a reason why only airsoft guns use that system |
22:24.25 | DrodoEmpire | Because its sorta inefficient and will never be any good at propelling a heavy projectile a long distance fast |
22:24.28 | drom | But it is one of the few useable methods of projection for pointing and shooting at someone in vaccum. |
22:24.41 | drom | Like, in space. |
22:24.48 | DrodoEmpire | Use a chemical propellant (yes, guns work in space), or magnetic rails |
22:25.08 | drom | Which kind of chemical propellant? |
22:25.13 | DrodoEmpire | Uhh |
22:25.16 | DrodoEmpire | Any? :p |
22:25.17 | Xho | Always wondered what kind of damage an M82 would do a point blank range |
22:25.21 | Xho | Out of ballistic curiosity |
22:25.25 | Xho | at* |
22:25.29 | DrodoEmpire | All "chemical propellant" means is something like gunpowder or smokeless powder |
22:25.30 | drom | You know, guns don't always work in space. |
22:25.31 | DrodoEmpire | Cordite |
22:25.33 | DrodoEmpire | Those things |
22:25.36 | DrodoEmpire | They'll fire |
22:25.58 | DrodoEmpire | Conventional earth weapons don't work in space because its cold and it freezes up the mechanism |
22:26.03 | DrodoEmpire | Not because they won't fire |
22:26.12 | drom | There is a second issue too |
22:26.17 | drom | Lack of air, |
22:26.20 | DrodoEmpire | ...No |
22:26.25 | drom | Full-automatics heat up easily. |
22:26.25 | DrodoEmpire | I literally said that isn't so |
22:26.44 | DrodoEmpire | A cartridge firearm will fire fine in a vacuum |
22:27.13 | DrodoEmpire | If you can adapt a gun so it won't freeze, you got a space-worthy gun |
22:27.36 | drom | Make sure it won't overheat either |
22:27.45 | DrodoEmpire | That's a completely separate issue |
22:28.12 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway |
22:28.25 | DrodoEmpire | Bolt actions or breechloading are *probably* better for high calibre weapons |
22:28.44 | DrodoEmpire | And using conventional propellant/magnetic rails/both will work too |
22:28.57 | DrodoEmpire | You can contract the Drodo to make this rifle for you if you so wish, or buy their sniper rifle |
22:29.11 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@95.140.92.27) |
22:29.32 | drom | Right |
22:31.14 | drom | Now for the spring-powered projection. I believe it would work the best in environment free of resistance (air resistance, gravity, etc.) like space. |
22:31.21 | drom | What do you think about it. |
22:32.19 | DrodoEmpire | I still think its pointless |
22:32.56 | DrodoEmpire | It wouldn't muster as much initial power as a chemical propellant or magrails |
22:33.50 | Monet | I'm not an expert on guns, but a spring does sound less potent a propellant than a chemical explosion or a set of magnetic rails |
22:34.27 | DrodoEmpire | Stealth isn't an issue, as its space |
22:34.41 | DrodoEmpire | And if you're *that* worried about a potential muzzle-flash for some reason, then put on a flash suppressor :p |
22:35.02 | Monet | Easy. |
22:36.16 | Monet | So (and I'm going to sound stupid here but hey I'm English, guns aren't a thing many people are versed in here) suppressors are mroe designed to conceal the muzzle flash rather than the bang? |
22:36.27 | DrodoEmpire | Ehh |
22:36.32 | DrodoEmpire | Well here's the thing |
22:36.42 | DrodoEmpire | There are sound suppressors, and flash suppressors, and some do both |
22:37.01 | DrodoEmpire | With any sort of 'silencer' the gun is still *extremely* loud |
22:37.02 | Monet | As so there are two kinds (I'm aware that real 'silencers' don't turn a bang into a fwip) |
22:37.08 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
22:37.55 | Monet | It's like confusing the term "buleltproof" and "bullet-resistant" |
22:38.09 | DrodoEmpire | As far as I know anyway |
22:38.26 | DrodoEmpire | Most suppressors remove the flash anyway |
22:38.54 | Monet | The confusion is "oh it's bullet-proof, it's designed to stop bullets" |
22:39.24 | Monet | Wheras the term actually meant the armour was tested and proven resistant against bullet impacts. |
22:39.39 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
22:39.59 | DrodoEmpire | Really any sort of armour like that isn't a guarantee- it'll save your life, but its not like you'll be robocop |
22:40.13 | The_Randomness | yeah |
22:40.16 | DrodoEmpire | You're probably gonna still be pretty fucked up by the impact alone |
22:40.29 | DrodoEmpire | Broken ribs, etc. depending on the round and the range |
22:40.38 | Monet | I loved the image of 13th century armour smiths finishing a piece of work then pulling out an aqueous and firing it at the finished armour. |
22:40.48 | DrodoEmpire | 16th, you mean? |
22:40.55 | Monet | Yeah. |
22:41.10 | DrodoEmpire | As yeah that's how early modern period armour was tested, incredibly |
22:41.14 | Monet | Must have been a fun moment after finishing every commission. |
22:41.18 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
22:41.26 | DrodoEmpire | They'd shoot it with a pistol, and if it only dented, its good |
22:41.38 | DrodoEmpire | You'd be an idiot to buy undented armour >.< |
22:42.22 | The_Randomness | That's really interesting |
22:42.24 | The_Randomness | I never knew that |
22:42.37 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, they called the process "proofing" I belive |
22:42.39 | DrodoEmpire | *believe |
22:44.13 | Wormy_ | I suggest that since there isn't any air in space aside from the odd atom here and there, a chemical propellant would need some thought. Potentially some unstable oxidiser would burn very quickly, like compressed oxygen used in acetylene torches in space. But it also doesn't want to be too explosive I imagine. |
22:45.03 | DrodoEmpire | I mean, I'm pretty certain modern firearms can fire in a vacuum, and its unrelated issues as to why using modern firearms in space is so impractical |
22:45.15 | DrodoEmpire | If you were to "proof" a gun against space, it'd work I think |
22:45.25 | DrodoEmpire | But yeah a specialised propellant may be a good optimisation |
22:45.30 | DrodoEmpire | At the very least |
22:46.01 | Monet | IS the freezing analogy accurate? |
22:46.19 | DrodoEmpire | I think its exactly that as to why a gun stops working |
22:46.22 | DrodoEmpire | The mechanism freezes |
22:46.31 | Monet | Space, being a vacuum, is very bad act cooling things. |
22:46.41 | Wormy_ | Guns probably use oxidisers that would burn in space |
22:46.54 | Wormy_ | And I think they can be in solid form too |
22:47.21 | Wormy_ | *guns today |
22:47.58 | Monet | There would be an overheating concern, as Drodo said. |
22:48.13 | Monet | as Drom said |
22:48.35 | Xho | rite sleep |
22:49.32 | Monet | But the chance of freezing not so much as aside form infrared radiation emission, there's nothing to really cool something down in space. |
22:49.40 | drom | That is why you would never use caseless munitions in space. |
22:51.18 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman Monet: So Christian Stewart is apparently marrying a woman |
22:51.27 | ImpyDroid | Not sure if I wrote her name right |
22:51.41 | ImpyDroid | The female lead from Twilight |
22:52.57 | Wormy_ | The gun might have some radiators and an internal compressed liquid cooling system, though given that it can only radiate heat in infrared form in space they might need to be detachable if the liquid heats too quickly. Internally I can see it conducting heat away from components though |
22:53.17 | Monet | ImpyDroid: It's usually the men of Twilight that everyone obsesses about. |
22:53.59 | drom | Came to think that Sten Guns use a spring to chamber and fire bullets. |
22:54.49 | DrodoEmpire | ...Yes |
22:54.57 | DrodoEmpire | But that's not the way the projectile's propelled |
22:54.58 | drom | I know it is not directly related. But aren't springs used in full-automatics anyway? |
22:55.07 | DrodoEmpire | That's just a blowback mechanism |
22:55.12 | drom | I know |
22:55.19 | drom | I read an article |
22:57.04 | Tek0516 | O.O http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/3-dead-after-crossbow-attack-in-toronto-1.3044118 |
22:57.30 | Tek0516 | 3 people killed here by a crossbow today. |
22:57.44 | DrodoEmpire | Jesus.... |
22:58.01 | DrodoEmpire | A *crossbow*? |
22:59.23 | Tek0516 | Yes, a crossbow. |
22:59.48 | DrodoEmpire | Christ, the attack itself seems quite savage as well |
23:00.01 | drom | Bows to this modern day aren't a joke |
23:00.45 | DrodoEmpire | As someone who owns a Mongol recurve bow, I know >.< |
23:00.54 | Hachiman | >comparing a crossbow to a bow |
23:01.00 | Hachiman | >implying crossbows are true bows |
23:01.09 | DrodoEmpire | I mean they ae |
23:01.11 | DrodoEmpire | *are |
23:01.29 | DrodoEmpire | Mechanically they aren't very different, just a different, more convenient mount <.< |
23:01.43 | DrodoEmpire | With added features depending on what it is |
23:01.50 | The_Randomness | ^ |
23:01.59 | Wormy_ | Crossbows are still used in modern armies for certain situations |
23:02.02 | drom | Hachiman: Crossbows are just bows with a fishing reel to keep them suspended. |
23:02.09 | DrodoEmpire | Granted, that's reductionist |
23:02.18 | DrodoEmpire | As even this small change is a big deal |
23:02.39 | DrodoEmpire | It makes the weapon easier to use, often possess a shorter effective range |
23:02.46 | DrodoEmpire | Maybe be more powerful or penetrative |
23:05.49 | Wormy_ | My knowledge of this is probably incorrect but they did have very different outcomes when fielded in battle. |
23:06.11 | DrodoEmpire | They were very different functionally speaking yes |
23:06.27 | Wormy_ | The English longbow had superior range or something against French armies who relied on it |
23:06.42 | DrodoEmpire | The French lost many battles in the Hundred Years' War thanks to their misuse of their crossbowmen and the superior range of the English Longbow |
23:06.56 | drom | They were more favorable for personal defence iirc. |
23:06.57 | Wormy_ | Cool, glad I got that right |
23:07.15 | DrodoEmpire | drom: Crossbows were expensive and unwieldy, they weren't personal defense weapons |
23:07.36 | drom | Well, still easier than wielding a bow for persona defense. |
23:07.42 | DrodoEmpire | The insane bravery and overconfidence of the French cavalry also helped them to defeat |
23:07.52 | DrodoEmpire | Irrelevant |
23:08.07 | drom | Right then. |
23:08.10 | DrodoEmpire | Most people, especially in the 14th century onward usually kept an old sword |
23:08.23 | DrodoEmpire | Crossbows were a bit too expensive to just have around for the house |
23:08.51 | Wormy_ | I came across some medieval art which depicted giant crossbows positioned on castle walls. Although it was probably exaggerated in size I am very curious about them. |
23:09.16 | DrodoEmpire | I figure they were a form of ballistae, which indeed were used |
23:09.38 | DrodoEmpire | Dunno how much in medieval sieges |
23:09.42 | DrodoEmpire | But they were used |
23:09.52 | Wormy_ | *looks them up*, yes they looked like ballistae |
23:10.53 | Wormy_ | Jebus, "One talent ballista (26 kg weight projectile). The heaviest versions could shoot up to three talents (78 kg), possibly much more." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bal_BBC1.jpg |
23:11.51 | DrodoEmpire | Huh, nice |
23:14.41 | drom | Gotta love slapping this trope http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AwesomeButImpractical |
23:16.10 | drom | off to sleep |
23:16.16 | drom | Take care! |
23:16.30 | DrodoEmpire | Bye |
23:16.39 | Wormy_ | night |
23:20.45 | DrodoEmpire | test |
23:51.35 | Wormy_ | I fancy getting a giant H bomb mod for Fallout 4 |
23:51.41 | DrodoEmpire | Oh? |
23:52.09 | Wormy_ | It has mini-nukes which are cool and all but not enough |
23:53.08 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh |
23:53.18 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101 (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
23:55.15 | Wormy_ | This one looks cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ABGPV2cADw |
23:59.42 | Wormy_ | Mini nuke minigun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRNRp3JoNls |