| 00:00.15 | Monet | That is cool |
| 00:02.10 | The_Randomness | :o |
| 00:04.10 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah I really like star forts- its a really novel design |
| 00:04.38 | The_Randomness | Also nice in Civ V |
| 00:04.40 | The_Randomness | :> |
| 00:04.58 | Monet | Eyyyyy |
| 00:06.16 | DrodoEmpire | ey laymo |
| 00:06.55 | DrodoEmpire | Actually its sorta cool- WWI forts were actually *extremely* hard to crack, especially at places like Verdun |
| 00:07.45 | DrodoEmpire | Mostly because these were old star forts, but they were actually buried in to the ground to make big mounds basically and had a ton of turrets with artillery and machine guns that could lift themselves in and out of the ground built in |
| 00:08.12 | DrodoEmpire | They proved nearly impossible to crack even when literal *millions* of shells were pounded in to them and their surroundings |
| 00:08.21 | The_Randomness | :o |
| 00:09.01 | DrodoEmpire | Which was the artillery doctrine in 2916- annihilation. And it was with the lack of success with this doctrine why we know bombing and artillery aren't what win wars |
| 00:09.12 | DrodoEmpire | Not on their own |
| 00:09.15 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway that's my lecture >.< |
| 00:09.20 | DrodoEmpire | *1916 |
| 00:12.19 | Technobliterator | I am so hyped for Civ VI |
| 00:12.50 | DrodoEmpire | Ehh, seems alright |
| 00:13.01 | DrodoEmpire | Not exactly loving the art style but we'll see |
| 00:13.21 | Monet | Why is everyone so bothered with the art style? |
| 00:13.29 | The_Randomness | It's different |
| 00:13.55 | Monet | So an aversion to change. |
| 00:14.00 | DrodoEmpire | Well, no, |
| 00:14.19 | DrodoEmpire | I don't like it because it seems a bit cartoonish, and almost makes it look like a mobile game >.< |
| 00:14.22 | Monet | Well I imagine the reasons are different for everyone |
| 00:14.38 | Monet | Yeah I've heard the 'it looks cartoonish' argument |
| 00:15.03 | DrodoEmpire | I don't mind cartoonish art styles as a rule (I *love* the art direction for TF2 and how clean and distinct it is), but it... Eh, maybe it seems inappropriate for this franchise |
| 00:15.03 | Technobliterator | I love the art style |
| 00:15.04 | DrodoEmpire | *? |
| 00:15.12 | Technobliterator | Especially for the unexplored locations |
| 00:15.18 | Technobliterator | Some of the new mechanics look really interesting |
| 00:15.19 | DrodoEmpire | Though Civ never took itself very seriously I suppose |
| 00:15.29 | DrodoEmpire | Oh yeah that effect for the locations is awesome |
| 00:16.04 | DrodoEmpire | (I recall some of the funnier descriptions for stuff in V, and those corny though lovable live-action advisor cutscenes from... II? III?) |
| 00:16.16 | Monet | II |
| 00:16.16 | DrodoEmpire | (God I miss live action cutscenes in video games >.<) |
| 00:16.27 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 00:16.40 | Monet | Ahh the live-action advisors :) |
| 00:16.46 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:16.46 | Monet | Like Greek Elvis. |
| 00:17.11 | DrodoEmpire | I recall the old cutscenes also from the C&C games, they actually kept to that even in their last game |
| 00:17.25 | Monet | Or the military advisor that makes George S. Patton look mild-mannered. |
| 00:17.30 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 00:19.03 | Monet | I recall one of the appeals of FMV was that for a time when animation technology wasn't so sophisticated and computers had small hard drives, recorded video provided a better expression. |
| 00:19.31 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:20.13 | DrodoEmpire | But yeah its just such a distinctive and nostalgic style. >.< |
| 00:20.15 | Monet | Character animation at the time was quite stiff. |
| 00:21.00 | DrodoEmpire | And models were pretty basic yeah |
| 00:21.33 | DrodoEmpire | I mean, I used to watch an animated show called Reboot, and it was probably one of the first 3D animated TV shows |
| 00:21.42 | DrodoEmpire | Hooly shit is its style dated now >.< |
| 00:23.33 | Monet | We're on the cusp where CG has the potential to pass over the uncanny valley. |
| 00:24.13 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:24.21 | Monet | https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iEsy7AZF6nA/maxresdefault.jpg like this |
| 00:24.32 | DrodoEmpire | I've been fooled by a few animations before |
| 00:24.40 | DrodoEmpire | Well, almost |
| 00:24.57 | Monet | As I said, it has the potential. |
| 00:25.15 | Monet | The bridge isn't sturdy yet. |
| 00:25.18 | DrodoEmpire | I usually catch on within the first minute- just the fidelity of things, and the way the light bounces off of skin and other surfaces- it honestly looks better than real life half the time >.< |
| 00:25.25 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, true |
| 00:27.12 | Monet | "Better than real life" might be the issue now. |
| 00:27.33 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:27.48 | DrodoEmpire | Its not even that its bad- its *too damn good*! |
| 00:27.55 | DrodoEmpire | Real life |
| 00:28.20 | DrodoEmpire | *Real life's awesome, but I mean no lighting is *quite* like that or perfect, so as to bounce off of every detail of a man's face |
| 00:28.38 | Monet | We've cracked - well more accurately expert studios have cracked - the uncanny valley. |
| 00:28.48 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:36.43 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:e8f3:443c:8cdd:d57f) |
| 00:36.43 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 00:36.55 | The_Randomness | That was strange, Firefox just sort of locked up for me |
| 00:37.58 | DrodoEmpire | Huh |
| 00:51.29 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (6c380259@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.56.2.89) |
| 00:51.34 | The_Randomness | Hey Charles |
| 00:51.47 | Charles_Murray | Hey |
| 00:52.25 | The_Randomness | How's it going? |
| 00:52.53 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (uid149600@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zkvnkbcohndbnlgt) |
| 00:53.35 | DrodoEmpire | Hey Charles |
| 00:58.48 | Monet | hello |
| 01:07.04 | Wormy_FO4 | http://imgur.com/gallery/UEoE2 |
| 01:08.31 | DrodoEmpire | olol |
| 01:17.30 | Charles_Murray | I am seriously entertained by this conversation: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/4t9enh/til_the_word_walls_are_fully_translatable_and/d5fnuf0 |
| 01:18.05 | The_Randomness | lol |
| 01:25.27 | Tek0516 | Charles_Murray: before clicking the actual link I was convinced they were talking about Wikia. :P |
| 01:25.38 | Charles_Murray | lol |
| 01:26.08 | Charles_Murray | American geographers struggling with the mess that was 1930's Asia: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Map_of_Asia_from_the_Interwar_period%2C_ca._1932-36.jpg |
| 01:27.05 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 01:27.17 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah China especially in that period was just- wow |
| 01:27.25 | DrodoEmpire | Run by warlords, firstly |
| 01:27.25 | Charles_Murray | "We'll just label it all China and leave it at that" |
| 01:27.29 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
| 01:27.36 | The_Randomness | :P |
| 01:27.51 | The_Randomness | Charles_Murray: You available for collabverse stuff by any chance? |
| 01:28.02 | DrodoEmpire | I mean to be fair it was a mess politically. >.< |
| 01:28.04 | Charles_Murray | I can discuss stuff, sure |
| 01:28.26 | Charles_Murray | smacks Drodo. |
| 01:28.29 | DrodoEmpire | China was in one of those periods it has where its split among warlords |
| 01:28.33 | Charles_Murray | NEVER SHY AWAY FROM COMPLEXITY |
| 01:28.35 | Charles_Murray | NEVER |
| 01:28.40 | Charles_Murray | :) |
| 01:28.43 | DrodoEmpire | D: |
| 01:28.52 | The_Randomness | \o/ |
| 01:29.00 | Monet | I thought cartographers hated drawing maps in areas of turmoil. |
| 01:29.20 | Monet | Cartographer - Can the borders stay static for two years please? |
| 01:29.30 | DrodoEmpire | A situation Chinese situation's gained not only a habit, but a talent for getting itself in like clockwork every few centuries :p |
| 01:29.45 | DrodoEmpire | *The Chinese civilization |
| 01:30.00 | The_Randomness | Charles_Murray: You need a link to the titanpad? |
| 01:30.22 | Charles_Murray | Found it, it's already open |
| 01:30.23 | Charles_Murray | Reloading |
| 01:30.30 | The_Randomness | there we go |
| 01:30.53 | The_Randomness | Line 187 is where the Federation stuff starts |
| 01:31.44 | Monet | I also find it a little awkward they used the same colour for India, Tibet, Nepal, Pakistan, Burma, Bhutan *and* Indonesia. |
| 01:32.06 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 01:32.31 | DrodoEmpire | China | Not China |
| 01:32.40 | Charles_Murray | Pakistan, Indian, Burma, and Nepal makes sense during this time period |
| 01:32.55 | Charles_Murray | Tibet...? Bhutan? |
| 01:33.06 | Charles_Murray | Not so much. |
| 01:33.07 | Monet | You mean the British Raj? |
| 01:33.13 | Charles_Murray | Aye |
| 01:33.33 | DrodoEmpire | "Basically ours" - British |
| 01:34.37 | Monet | Yeah it looks like they did similar with Ethiopia and Somalia. |
| 01:36.19 | Monet | Sharing colours I'm not bothered with. |
| 01:37.05 | Monet | Sharing colours in a way that makes the whole region one giant country-shaped giant blob? Now I'm suspicious. |
| 01:38.48 | DrodoEmpire | I have a world map on my wall that does the exact same thing, and its modern :p |
| 01:39.10 | DrodoEmpire | Though its a bit more consistent in what it does as it seems like its divided roughly by continent |
| 01:39.36 | Monet | Was going to say. |
| 01:40.07 | Monet | Sort of reminded of the globe I've seen on Crash Course where the colour denomination is basically, USA | Not USA. |
| 01:40.58 | Monet | Actually speaking of maps, looking on Google maps now and regarding states.. |
| 01:42.39 | Monet | Apparently USA, Australia and Brazil get their denominations drawn out, but Mexico, Germany and China don't. |
| 01:43.05 | DrodoEmpire | Canada does as well on occasion, and that probably has to do with *what* exactly the nature of these states are |
| 01:43.55 | Monet | Yeah at the current Google Maps version Canada's provinces are shown |
| 01:44.01 | DrodoEmpire | As far as I know, the United States is called that for a very good reason, as its essentially a *very* federalized confederation of states, which have more rights than a simple administrative division |
| 01:44.12 | DrodoEmpire | Canada's also a confederation of provinces |
| 01:44.38 | DrodoEmpire | Meanwhile in China their provinces are more or less administrative divisions, as far as I'm aware |
| 01:44.44 | Charles_Murray | Mexico is also a federation |
| 01:44.54 | Charles_Murray | China is a unitary state, the world's largest |
| 01:44.55 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 01:45.00 | Monet | China, okay, maybe. But Germany and Mexico? |
| 01:45.42 | DrodoEmpire | It might be because those countries are often so small on a map a cartographer can't be arsed. >.< |
| 01:45.43 | DrodoEmpire | I dunno |
| 01:46.00 | DrodoEmpire | Never underestimate the laziness of human being :p |
| 01:46.15 | Monet | Just double-checked |
| 01:46.28 | Monet | Mexico's states appear when zoomed in a little more |
| 01:46.50 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh |
| 01:46.58 | DrodoEmpire | Seems like I'm right :p |
| 01:47.38 | Monet | Germany however... |
| 01:48.25 | DrodoEmpire | Germany'd be a *really* strange exception |
| 01:48.30 | DrodoEmpire | States there have *enormous* power |
| 01:48.33 | Monet | Oh and Russia. Although I think Russia the situation is a little more complex. |
| 01:49.03 | Charles_Murray | Germany's are still there |
| 01:49.07 | Charles_Murray | Just have to zoom in |
| 01:49.33 | Monet | They're difficult to make out |
| 01:50.50 | Monet | And Russia on Google Maps is *massive* |
| 01:51.30 | Charles_Murray | Russia in real life is *massive* |
| 01:52.57 | Monet | Yes but therein lies the issue. By the time the names of Russian states appear, each one takes up a good portion of the screen. |
| 01:53.58 | Monet | Well, save for the Western states |
| 01:54.24 | Monet | Eh, probably oversight. |
| 01:54.31 | Monet | And I'm tired. |
| 01:55.37 | DrodoEmpire | Its like EUIV <.< |
| 01:56.03 | Charles_Murray | (they're not states, they're Republics) |
| 01:56.42 | DrodoEmpire | The dream of every EUIV player is to get a big "Ryukyu" stretching from Lisbon to Kyoto, after all :p |
| 01:56.59 | Charles_Murray | Well, some are |
| 01:57.28 | Monet | And there are varying degrees of autonomy. |
| 01:58.39 | Charles_Murray | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia |
| 01:59.35 | Monet | I might be making mistakes as it's late for me. |
| 02:01.01 | Charles_Murray | "How many men do we have?" "6, sir." "6 million?" "No. Just 6. We've got 6 men." |
| 02:01.11 | Charles_Murray | http://i.imgur.com/ph0doxC.png |
| 02:01.56 | DrodoEmpire | ohgod |
| 02:02.01 | Monet | Six proud, very brave men. |
| 02:02.13 | DrodoEmpire | That reminds me of Bhutan and its *single* gun in its stockpile >.< |
| 02:03.05 | Monet | https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/13/7a/d6/137ad6273a8388f9fd37e7326af97621.png wat |
| 02:03.30 | The_Randomness | lol |
| 02:03.46 | DrodoEmpire | *how a 12-year old who's played the Modern Warfare campaigns thinks the U.S will be split |
| 02:04.21 | Monet | A Californian Republic under Chinese influence mmmaybe, part of China? Unlikely. |
| 02:04.40 | DrodoEmpire | Furthermore- why would the US split, and why like *that*? >.< |
| 02:04.50 | DrodoEmpire | The US government's got that shit locked down |
| 02:05.14 | Monet | I can't see California or Washington putting up with becoming like Hong Kong. |
| 02:05.35 | The_Randomness | DrodoEmpire: Conveniently placed apocalypse? |
| 02:05.39 | The_Randomness | <_< |
| 02:05.50 | Charles_Murray | "Alaska will become a part of Russia" |
| 02:05.52 | Charles_Murray | Hah |
| 02:06.21 | DrodoEmpire | Between police better armed than most third-world nations' militaries and a somewhat-apathetic, somewhat-misinformed populace I don't see this happening |
| 02:06.27 | Charles_Murray | Yeah, I've seen this |
| 02:07.14 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:07.54 | Monet | Yeah what credentials does this Russian Professor have? |
| 02:08.44 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 02:11.08 | Monet | California has a strong manufacturing industry, but its media and tech industries might be hurt by the Chinese-style model of nationalised industry. |
| 02:12.14 | DrodoEmpire | I think they'd be more harmed by China's lax copyright laws and habit of stealing the intellectual property of foreign companies |
| 02:12.26 | DrodoEmpire | Any sort of native industry there |
| 02:13.17 | Monet | Good point |
| 02:14.56 | Monet | I long remember that copyright as an idea for protecting intellectual property came about because while Gilbert and Sullivan were extremely popular on both sides of the Atlantic, they couldn't break ground in the US because by the time they started touring there > |
| 02:15.22 | Monet | There were many stolen performances of their productions touring the US. |
| 02:16.26 | DrodoEmpire | Huh |
| 02:17.42 | Monet | I've heard of China's reputation for copying |
| 02:18.21 | Monet | https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--uTQ8ra2c--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18j1t56j2ggfnjpg.jpg like this |
| 02:18.46 | Monet | A Warcraft-themed Theme Park that Blizzard heard nothing about. |
| 02:18.58 | DrodoEmpire | China's got a bad reputation for screwing over foreign companies that move in to China |
| 02:19.40 | Monet | Come to think of it I think that picture's also stealing from Lord of the Rings as well. |
| 02:19.50 | The_Randomness | This reminds me of the Extra History series about the First Opium War that finished not too long ago >_> |
| 02:21.51 | Monet | According to Forbes, "Joyland" is a $48million IP violation with some fairly decent rides. |
| 02:22.58 | Wormy_FO4 | Is the likes/dislikes bar flickering for anyon-else? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceP_zvyM3A4 |
| 02:23.10 | Wormy_FO4 | For me its happening on every vid of youtube |
| 02:23.28 | Wormy_FO4 | Makes me wonder if its under attack hur |
| 02:23.37 | The_Randomness | nope |
| 02:24.20 | Charles_Murray | Wormy More likely it's your computer lol |
| 02:24.37 | DrodoEmpire | Nah I don't get that |
| 02:25.32 | Wormy_FO4 | its like it will jump up and down in likes/dislikes |
| 02:26.00 | DrodoEmpire | Weird |
| 02:26.07 | Wormy_FO4 | And yes I don't know why the hell I'm watching a live jellyfish cam |
| 02:26.45 | DrodoEmpire | olol |
| 02:27.37 | Charles_Murray | Ahhhhh - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-plot-insight-idUSKCN0ZX0Q9 |
| 02:27.48 | Charles_Murray | This explains a lot about why the Turkish coup failed |
| 02:28.12 | The_Randomness | Interesting |
| 02:28.30 | Charles_Murray | "Erdogan said as the coup unfolded that the plotters had tried to attack him in the resort town of Marmaris and had bombed places he had been at shortly after he left. He "evaded death by minutes", the second official said. Around 25 soldiers in helicopters descended on a hotel in Marmaris on ropes, shooting, just after Erdogan had left in an apparent attempt to seize him," |
| 02:28.52 | DrodoEmpire | Jesus... |
| 02:33.00 | Tek0516 | Huh. They had the opportunity to end it right there and then, yet they just let him land. |
| 02:33.34 | Charles_Murray | F16 - You see, we didn't have any ammo |
| 02:33.35 | DrodoEmpire | They could've had orders not to fire (for some reason)- or the pilots personally couldn't build up the courage to kill their own leader |
| 02:33.38 | Monet | It almost sounds like the entire coup was one long series of near-misses. |
| 02:33.55 | Charles_Murray | History hinges on things like that |
| 02:34.13 | The_Randomness | As much as I don't like Erdogan, the idea of a successful coup in Turkey makes me uneasy |
| 02:35.21 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 02:36.29 | Charles_Murray | Turkey is not very high on the list of countries under risk of a coup |
| 02:37.11 | Charles_Murray | It's really, really unusual that a coup attempt happened there, which is one of the reasons it failed so spectacularly. The elements which make for that kind of transition just weren't there |
| 02:37.23 | Charles_Murray | And the coup itself was poorly executed. |
| 02:37.27 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 02:37.29 | The_Randomness | Indeed |
| 02:37.43 | The_Randomness | "So, how do we do this 'coup' thing?" |
| 02:38.05 | The_Randomness | "Darn it, you should've done your homework" |
| 02:40.53 | Charles_Murray | Well, some of the elements you just don't have control over. i.e., Turkey's economy was growing (elites are more inclined towards the status quo), there was a war next door ("rally around the flag" effect). |
| 02:41.32 | Charles_Murray | Some things which they absolutely could have control over, such as Edrogan, the internet, cellular communication, etc, didn't happen |
| 02:41.40 | The_Randomness | right |
| 02:42.50 | Charles_Murray | The coup also needed a public face to demonstrate (or pretend) that elites were backing the thing |
| 02:42.53 | Charles_Murray | That didn't happen either |
| 02:44.08 | Charles_Murray | The strength of a coup is to BS your way to power, basically. You grab as many state assets as you can get your hands on, monopolize all media and communications, arrest the head of state, and so on, essentially generating momentum based on an appearance of invincibility and inevitability such that elites and the military swing over to you as a matter of self-preservation. |
| 02:44.40 | Charles_Murray | The next day, regular people wake up and on the TV they hear that there's someone new in charge. |
| 02:45.47 | Monet | I've been meaning to add to the Third House War so this stuff is good to know |
| 02:46.44 | Monet | Igoodnight |
| 02:46.54 | Charles_Murray | Nigh! |
| 02:47.44 | Wormy_FO4 | I don't think they had enough forces to grab and hold assets in the first place. You know I think this whole attempted coup may have some odd motives behind it (not saying false flag operation), you'd think such low numbers and poor planning would be obvious to the orchestrators |
| 02:48.36 | Wormy_FO4 | There were significant points when the armed police got the upper hand, so they were free enough to move around for example |
| 02:49.18 | Charles_Murray | With proper planning, you don't need that much in terms of numbers; that's what I mean by BSing your way to power. |
| 02:49.25 | The_Randomness | ^ |
| 02:50.04 | Charles_Murray | If you can make it look like you have the military behind you (which they tried, and for a while the media believed them), then you're partway there |
| 02:50.45 | Wormy_FO4 | Problem is, the Turkish military is massive and this as far as Im aware, was a very small segment of it |
| 02:51.19 | The_Randomness | Right, but the key is to make it *look* like you do |
| 02:51.44 | Wormy_FO4 | Even if they killed Erdogan and imprisoned the powerful figures somehow, I'd expect the Turkish would be waking up to war |
| 02:52.35 | Wormy_FO4 | However, if it had been the entire Turkish military, then yeah the obviousl winner would be them |
| 02:54.44 | DrodoEmpire | ...Again *BS*ing your way to power |
| 02:54.57 | DrodoEmpire | And sorta betting on the fact that people won't want to escalate the conflict |
| 02:56.14 | Charles_Murray | And will believe that most of the military is in on it, which means that going against the coup would be suicide |
| 02:57.43 | Wormy_FO4 | Tricking the media is one thing, somehow tricking the entire military from the inside (and Turkey's is very complex, having several arms to it I think) in a single move I find harder to swallow |
| 02:58.15 | DrodoEmpire | ...Except it happens |
| 02:58.22 | DrodoEmpire | Because the military isn't a monolithic thing |
| 02:58.56 | Charles_Murray | Nor does it have perfect information. In fact, it's likely the media had better information than the military during this whole thing |
| 02:59.18 | DrodoEmpire | It isn't an entity that acts with a universal will or opinion- its not hard for one section of it to go out on a coup and leave the others in disarray and unable or unwilling to convene and figure things out |
| 02:59.20 | Wormy_FO4 | Thats what I mean by having several arms to it, however its not like the military doesn't understand its own networks and hierahies |
| 02:59.40 | Charles_Murray | In the best case scenario, it wouldn't |
| 02:59.42 | Charles_Murray | That's the thing |
| 02:59.48 | Charles_Murray | The coup calls them into question |
| 03:00.05 | Charles_Murray | During this sort of thing, uncertainty is supreme |
| 03:00.11 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 03:00.35 | DrodoEmpire | Much of war is based on confusion and uncertainty |
| 03:00.38 | Charles_Murray | And typically, you just need to get major military figures to defect, and huge portions of regular soldiers go with them |
| 03:00.39 | DrodoEmpire | Don't underestimate it |
| 03:00.41 | Wormy_FO4 | And it appears, it failed this time. |
| 03:00.53 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, so? |
| 03:01.26 | DrodoEmpire | That doesn't disprove the rule of how coups work |
| 03:01.27 | Charles_Murray | Aye, it did; networked communication, the internet, some media outlets, etc, all of that was still running |
| 03:01.52 | Charles_Murray | The military could communicate with itself and assess what was going on. In a proper coup, it would all be dark. |
| 03:02.16 | Wormy_FO4 | I'm not exactly disproving anything. Just saying that the coup called those networks into question, and dice rolled in favour of the loyalists |
| 03:11.49 | The_Randomness | Charles_Murray: Could you expand on the mix of the HRE and the British Commonwealth that you mentioned? I'm currently at a loss as to how we can hold together the Empire, and I figured that might help a bit. |
| 03:13.41 | Charles_Murray | The same way you hold together any other sort of polity: legitimacy and convenience. |
| 03:14.22 | Charles_Murray | I'm afraid I can't go into any more depth than that, though; I really need to be getting to sleep, I'm waking up early tomorrow for my next internship |
| 03:14.27 | The_Randomness | Oh, alright |
| 03:14.33 | The_Randomness | See you later |
| 03:14.35 | Charles_Murray | Sorry about that |
| 03:26.56 | The_Randomness | Interesting video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_I2rfApYk |
| 03:28.34 | The_Randomness | Also, its comments are cancer |
| 03:29.04 | DrodoEmpire | Meh |
| 03:29.41 | DrodoEmpire | I was a supporter of leave, so frankly I find the fact that there're people *excited* about the referendum results being overthrown disturbing |
| 03:29.43 | The_Randomness | Not that it's terribly unusual for a Youtube video, and I'm not sure why I took a peek at them, but still |
| 03:29.52 | DrodoEmpire | People are excited about the subversion of democracy :p |
| 03:30.04 | DrodoEmpire | Because they didn't get what they wanted |
| 03:30.38 | DrodoEmpire | As for comments being cancer... Ehh, not *that* bad |
| 03:31.34 | The_Randomness | I don't have much of an opinion, because I don't know an awful lot about it, but it basically seemed an awful lot like a populist temper tantrum to me |
| 03:31.53 | The_Randomness | And you know how I feel about populism |
| 03:32.00 | DrodoEmpire | There was a lot on both sides |
| 03:32.14 | DrodoEmpire | Ultimately, I just hate the EU as an institution |
| 03:32.46 | The_Randomness | Why's that? |
| 03:33.45 | DrodoEmpire | Its protectionist and overregulated, its completely opaque and undemocratic, it subverts the sovereignty of its member states, and it has been trying, since its inception, to make a European superstate. |
| 03:34.02 | DrodoEmpire | I'm not exaggerating, nor am I some "conspiracy theorist" |
| 03:35.11 | The_Randomness | mmm, you'll have to do some explaining before I even consider buying a speck of that |
| 03:35.20 | DrodoEmpire | Very well |
| 03:35.28 | DrodoEmpire | I'll focus on the last three more, as they' |
| 03:35.43 | DrodoEmpire | *they're more concerning to me personally |
| 03:36.13 | The_Randomness | And no offense to you, but it sounds entirely absurd to me |
| 03:36.21 | DrodoEmpire | Right, well, give me a minute |
| 03:36.26 | The_Randomness | right |
| 03:36.49 | The_Randomness | especially those last two |
| 03:36.54 | DrodoEmpire | Its undemocratic- the EU is composed of some four legislative bodies- and the European Parliament, where all the MEPs go, don't have the power to actually *propose* legislation, only consider existing legislation |
| 03:37.11 | DrodoEmpire | That *isn't* democratic, that's at best an elected advisory council |
| 03:37.48 | DrodoEmpire | In addition, I believe most regulation is proposed and discussed behind closed doors, and is illegal to film/record for the press |
| 03:38.43 | DrodoEmpire | It also subverts the sovereignty of its member states, often by repackaging previously-rejected bills or treaties in to a different though very similar treaty and having the people of a country vote on it again |
| 03:39.04 | DrodoEmpire | Which subverts the will of people, by practically making them vote until the EU gets the result it wants |
| 03:39.45 | The_Randomness | Again, not that I don't trust you, but I think this would be better left for after I learn a bit more about the internals of the EU from somebody else |
| 03:40.04 | The_Randomness | Since, well, as amurican pleb, I don't really know anything |
| 03:40.11 | DrodoEmpire | Can I finish? |
| 03:40.18 | The_Randomness | yes, sorry |
| 03:40.21 | DrodoEmpire | Thanks. |
| 03:41.08 | DrodoEmpire | As for it trying to make itself in to a state? Well, look at the EU- it has a flag, national anthem, currency, and governing body. Admittedly, the UN has a couple of these things, but the EU takes it to a whole other level |
| 03:41.26 | DrodoEmpire | Not only that, but the EU wants to pretty much complete this by adding an army to this list of state-like characteristics |
| 03:42.18 | DrodoEmpire | This has been discussed many times before, I believe a measure to begin the process of introducing an army was vetoed by the UK in 2011 (though you'll have to factcheck me on that) |
| 03:42.33 | DrodoEmpire | Plus Juncker has also said he desires an EU army :p |
| 03:42.48 | DrodoEmpire | Once the EU has an army to call its own, its pretty much over for the countries in the EU |
| 03:43.09 | DrodoEmpire | Especially depending on what form this army comes in |
| 03:44.12 | DrodoEmpire | So, no, the EU isn't this wonderful, uniting thing people think it is |
| 03:44.24 | DrodoEmpire | Frankly I find it deeply sinister- but it absolutely doesn't have to be |
| 03:44.50 | DrodoEmpire | I'm not actually against a European economic alliance in general, its only that the EU has *long* past the point of being an economic alliance |
| 03:45.29 | DrodoEmpire | *or rather, some people think it is |
| 03:46.48 | DrodoEmpire | Moral of the story is: Don't just say a proposition *sounds* stupid when you have no basis on which to say it is. :p |
| 03:47.02 | DrodoEmpire | I encourage you to factcheck me and learn about the EU further |
| 03:47.09 | The_Randomness | Right, which I'll do |
| 03:49.37 | The_Randomness | At least you've attempted to justify this belief, unlike other instances of this similar belief that I've seen before |
| 03:50.10 | DrodoEmpire | I'd argue its more than an attempt :p |
| 03:50.22 | DrodoEmpire | But yes, I did |
| 03:53.50 | The_Randomness | I hate how I'm coming off here, but I am deeply suspicious of this sort of rhetoric, but I'll give this a chance, simply because of the fact that I am uninformed in this topic, and that this point of view could be useful in exploring it |
| 03:54.21 | DrodoEmpire | Right, its fine to be suspicious of rhetoric, but what I |
| 03:54.40 | DrodoEmpire | *I'm saying is backed up by facts, and don't lose sight of the insane rhetoric on the other side |
| 03:56.39 | DrodoEmpire | (And yes if I'm to be brutally honest you came off as really condescending :L) |
| 03:56.59 | DrodoEmpire | (I sorta reacted by being harsh >.<) |
| 03:58.38 | The_Randomness | I haven't seen the insane rhetoric from the other side, however, but whatever |
| 03:59.18 | DrodoEmpire | Then I'm going to suggest that you have a bias regarding that |
| 03:59.57 | DrodoEmpire | There were people saying that it was gonna be the end of the world if Britain left, criticising the idea of democracy itself- vaguely proclaiming sexism would increase as a result of Brexit |
| 04:00.59 | The_Randomness | I should've rephrased that, like, I literally haven't seen it, as in, not been exposed to it |
| 04:01.09 | DrodoEmpire | Right. |
| 04:01.43 | The_Randomness | but anyway, I'll take your pitch and see what comes from throwing it through the wringer later |
| 04:01.49 | DrodoEmpire | Alright, great |
| 04:02.05 | The_Randomness | I am deeply skeptical of what you've handed me, but I'll give it a chance |
| 04:03.10 | DrodoEmpire | I don't care if you're skeptical, just so long as you actually give my ideas a fair chance which I think you will |
| 04:03.27 | The_Randomness | heh, this is reminding me of this one time I took a look at what this quite obviously leftist person suggested I read to help with some worldbuilding once |
| 04:03.39 | DrodoEmpire | Oh? |
| 04:03.41 | The_Randomness | Let's just say that didn't end well >_> |
| 04:03.45 | DrodoEmpire | Oh, dear. |
| 04:03.48 | DrodoEmpire | What was it? |
| 04:03.55 | The_Randomness | Gave me a document that was 20+ pages of insufferable Marxist ranting |
| 04:04.00 | DrodoEmpire | Ugh gross |
| 04:04.02 | The_Randomness | I only got through a page of it |
| 04:04.05 | The_Randomness | And just barely |
| 04:04.31 | DrodoEmpire | What was some of the stuff he/the paper was implying you should add? >.< |
| 04:04.32 | The_Randomness | Before I requested a friend of mine to take a look at it (He's a religious studies minor, and history major) |
| 04:04.49 | The_Randomness | ...are you sure you want to see that paper? :P |
| 04:05.07 | The_Randomness | He said it was the most useless document he's ever read |
| 04:05.13 | The_Randomness | And only maybe valuable as a primary source |
| 04:06.25 | DrodoEmpire | Well, not *necessarily* see the paper |
| 04:06.36 | DrodoEmpire | I'm more interested as to how its info pertained to what you were doing |
| 04:06.55 | DrodoEmpire | Like was he giving it as advice for economics? Society? |
| 04:07.14 | The_Randomness | government/economics, it had to do with syndicalism |
| 04:07.18 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh :p |
| 04:07.38 | DrodoEmpire | Speaking of socialism, I got some updating to do on a certain nations list for the Drodo |
| 04:08.09 | DrodoEmpire | I had them as more of a social democracy when I made that- a few retcons later and the welfare state is virtually nonexistant |
| 04:08.11 | DrodoEmpire | <.< |
| 04:09.26 | DrodoEmpire | (Actually fuck it could I see a link to the paper?) |
| 04:09.38 | The_Randomness | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:09.43 | The_Randomness | I warned you |
| 04:09.44 | The_Randomness | >_> |
| 04:09.46 | DrodoEmpire | (Me and my brother discuss politics all the time via discord so it might be something nice to pick through) |
| 04:09.52 | The_Randomness | It's really bad |
| 04:10.04 | DrodoEmpire | (Dude that's even better for us XD) |
| 04:10.38 | The_Randomness | fuck you tom brown |
| 04:10.38 | DrodoEmpire | (There, got it bookmarked as "spicy fresh socialist meme to pick through") |
| 04:10.46 | The_Randomness | lol |
| 04:12.17 | The_Randomness | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:12.59 | DrodoEmpire | Yep |
| 04:13.06 | DrodoEmpire | That's your name on steam so I figured it was you |
| 04:16.45 | DrodoEmpire | There, made a few edits to the civs and statistics page to make the Drodo in to the republican wet dream they're destined to be <.< |
| 04:16.53 | DrodoEmpire | (jk) |
| 04:17.17 | DrodoEmpire | They're just *really* traditionalist and antifederal on the whole |
| 04:19.25 | DrodoEmpire | Aand I swept away any effective weapons regulation <.< |
| 04:19.43 | DrodoEmpire | Bringing it well in line with the whole "no monopoly on force" thing |
| 04:43.34 | The_Randomness | :p |
| 04:45.21 | The_Randomness | I'd rate that paper the 2nd worst thing I've ever read |
| 04:45.25 | The_Randomness | with GoT in first |
| 04:45.48 | DrodoEmpire | olol |
| 04:46.09 | DrodoEmpire | ...Now I wonder what the Drodo Empire would look like as a NationStates nation. >.< |
| 04:48.19 | DrodoEmpire | Probably *really* high social conservatism, weaponisation, wealth gap, and cheerfulness, medium high niceness, moderate primitiveness and religiosity, and some other stuff |
| 04:48.40 | DrodoEmpire | Strong agriculture, industrial, and arms sectors |
| 04:48.48 | The_Randomness | ok |
| 04:48.57 | DrodoEmpire | Just rambling, sorry >.< |
| 04:49.13 | The_Randomness | no really, that does seem about right for a NS version of them |
| 04:49.23 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh, alright |
| 04:49.49 | DrodoEmpire | Oh yeah government size would be really quite small |
| 04:50.11 | The_Randomness | Also, I think "fresh leftist meme" would be a better title |
| 04:50.28 | DrodoEmpire | Hmm... You might be right |
| 04:50.33 | The_Randomness | You have the obsession with oppression (boy is that something that requires unpacking) and everything |
| 04:51.02 | DrodoEmpire | Me? |
| 04:51.03 | The_Randomness | Secularism definitely doesn't fit with socialism, you don't have the strong central government there at all |
| 04:51.07 | The_Randomness | no |
| 04:51.08 | The_Randomness | this guy |
| 04:51.09 | DrodoEmpire | Ohh |
| 04:51.12 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah XD |
| 04:51.13 | The_Randomness | this fucking gu |
| 04:51.15 | The_Randomness | y |
| 04:51.48 | DrodoEmpire | Hmm, oh yeah, with the Drodo compliance would be fairly low too |
| 04:52.03 | The_Randomness | compliance? |
| 04:52.14 | DrodoEmpire | Compliance with government edicts/commands |
| 04:52.21 | The_Randomness | interesting |
| 04:52.33 | DrodoEmpire | The Drodo, especially recently, have had *some* trouble with the federal police force |
| 04:53.24 | DrodoEmpire | Budget cuts and an intentional change and curriculum made the newest and biggest generation quite the bunch of bullies- especially when egged on by the Jivirik government (latest one before this one, deeply unpopular) to enforce the federal government's command |
| 04:54.26 | DrodoEmpire | This resulted in a *lot* of full-on fighting between cops and Drodo clan militias, and a lot of defiance in general |
| 04:54.45 | The_Randomness | oh my |
| 04:55.33 | The_Randomness | If you want to understand what I mean by obsession with oppression, the guy mentioning "totalitarian democracy" should give you an idea |
| 04:55.40 | DrodoEmpire | ...Jesus H |
| 04:55.46 | DrodoEmpire | Really? >.< |
| 04:56.49 | DrodoEmpire | (But yeah I mean these new officers had quite the capacity for brutality, to be fair- burning entire crops wasn't unheard of, and the IDMP staged a full-on cavalry charge with sabres drawn on a square full of protesters near the end of Jivirik's rule) |
| 04:57.29 | DrodoEmpire | (Which resulted in a *lot* of dead and injured, and for the capital world of the Drodo Empire to descend in to *complete* anarchy) |
| 04:57.41 | DrodoEmpire | For almost a month |
| 04:59.05 | DrodoEmpire | Basically it was a matter of the Premier severely misjudging the resolve of the Drodo people in resisting rule from a distant world which didn't have their interests immediately in their mind |
| 04:59.11 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 05:02.04 | DrodoEmpire | I sorta wanted to do a fiction revolving around these sorts of conflicts (mostly to showcase the sorts of militias clans and nobles form), but I missed my chance |
| 05:02.09 | DrodoEmpire | I might have one soon though |
| 05:38.19 | The_Randomness | :o |
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| 07:29.35 | Spluff5 | Anything happen while I was away? |
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| 10:39.08 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 10:43.24 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 10:50.33 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
| 10:51.05 | Wormy_ | hi |
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| 11:01.22 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 11:02.18 | Monet | Hi |
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| 11:36.06 | DrodoEmpire | test |
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| 12:05.15 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 12:05.22 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 12:17.28 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 12:20.46 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 12:31.10 | DrodoEmpire | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnpboO7VIAAutYv.jpg:large <.< |
| 12:34.09 | Wormy_ | Didn't get that one |
| 12:34.43 | DrodoEmpire | Reference to Amos Yee- an outspoken atheist in Singapore who's been and is currently being persecuted by the government there |
| 12:35.02 | DrodoEmpire | He faces some *really* severe punishment if the case goes against him, but he still does what he does |
| 12:35.42 | Wormy_ | Huh |
| 12:35.58 | DrodoEmpire | As an aside, that was posted by Amos himself XD |
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| 12:55.35 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 12:55.48 | Cyrannian | Hi |
| 12:59.27 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 13:04.41 | DrodoEmpire | eyy sold my first item on the community market |
| 13:04.56 | DrodoEmpire | It wasn't even that good, and it was a few hours after I posted it |
| 13:05.00 | DrodoEmpire | I'll take that as a good omen |
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| 14:06.13 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 14:07.22 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 14:35.45 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 15:40.56 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/hTvOi |
| 15:55.03 | Wormy_ | Hope you wash your greens Ghelae, Technobliterator http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36823404 |
| 15:56.02 | Ghelae | I used to get ill from lettuce. We eventually realised, a few years after I decided to simply not eat it, that it might have just been improperly washed (and my parents were somehow able to consume it without ill effects). |
| 15:56.15 | Ghelae | I'm fine eating it now, though. |
| 15:58.13 | Wormy_ | I mainly wash greens/veg to clean off the chemicals they used to wash them with, not that I'm sure if it actually dooes |
| 15:58.37 | Wormy_ | But this is another reason to do just that |
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| 16:16.01 | Quark8 | Hello. |
| 16:27.27 | Wormy_ | DrodoEmpire: Scottish police show the Americans combat without a gun http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/01/scottish-police-show-us-cops-how-to-avoid-shooting-people-5656880/ |
| 16:51.18 | Wormy_ | too soon http://imgur.com/gallery/Nc5JlvX |
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| 16:56.14 | Monet | hello |
| 16:56.48 | Quark8 | Hi. |
| 16:57.03 | Wormy_ | http://i.imgur.com/Kr5NSIK.jpg |
| 16:59.01 | Monet | Yahoo answers are fast...probably not that fast. |
| 16:59.32 | Monet | "4 years ago" I guess we'll never know what happened |
| 17:04.26 | Quark8 | Humph. I searched up the question word-for-word but I can't find it. |
| 17:05.25 | Wormy_ | Sometimes they get deleted |
| 17:14.07 | Wormy_ | This sort of mass hallucination/delusion is beyond the wildest prophesies of 20th century psychedelic culture and Terence Mckenna http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/16/pokemon-go-has-gone-too-far-and-this-video-is-proof-6009987/ |
| 17:16.27 | Monet | Is it delusion though? |
| 17:17.06 | Wormy_ | We're all engaged in cultural hallucinations of some form or another |
| 17:17.51 | Wormy_ | But for people to abandon their vehicles without even pausing the engine for virtual symbols, this one has come very far indeed |
| 17:29.33 | Monet | I think we're entering a time where 'its not real' is becoming a less effective form of dismissal. |
| 17:30.20 | Monet | On another angle, we live in the reality Jean Baudrillard predicted. |
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| 18:21.35 | Monet | Afternoon |
| 18:47.08 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:586:d4d1:6389:54c1) |
| 18:47.08 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 18:47.23 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 18:47.58 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 18:49.29 | The_Randomness | Did you check out that spicy leftist meme yet? >_> |
| 18:49.45 | Wormy_ | What leftist meme? |
| 18:49.45 | DrodoEmpire | No, I haven't |
| 18:49.48 | DrodoEmpire | Sorry |
| 18:50.07 | DrodoEmpire | A nonsensical sorta Marxist paper |
| 18:50.13 | The_Randomness | Don't feel rushed, you're not missing out on much |
| 18:50.19 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 18:50.26 | The_Randomness | And a guy appearing to be helpful while offering it |
| 18:51.18 | Wormy_ | I want to bask in its red glow |
| 18:52.54 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah it might be a day or two until I do read it, as like I said earlier I'd like to pick through it *with* someone |
| 18:53.02 | The_Randomness | yeah, no problem |
| 18:53.59 | Wormy_ | Does anybody here watch stimmekoreas? |
| 18:54.10 | The_Randomness | Let me grab the reddit post again, Wormy_, the conversation is at the top |
| 18:54.27 | The_Randomness | The thing he linked me is ~20 pages of insufferable Marxist ranting |
| 18:54.34 | Wormy_ | Recent North Korean propaganda sggesting NK Juche is the leader of "World socialism" |
| 18:55.42 | The_Randomness | I barely made it through one page |
| 18:55.51 | The_Randomness | And that one page tilted me really hard |
| 18:55.55 | The_Randomness | https://redd.it/4mh206 <- the post |
| 19:01.13 | Imperios | Syndicalism is a pretty sweet idea but I doubt it would work mosto f the time |
| 19:01.48 | The_Randomness | yeah |
| 19:02.33 | Monet | So another good idea until humans start using it. |
| 19:03.00 | The_Randomness | hm, as far as I see it, it seems to be more of an issue of the challenges it faces |
| 19:03.06 | The_Randomness | not so much "lol human nature" |
| 19:03.22 | The_Randomness | Which I find to be a lazy way of dismissing things |
| 19:03.57 | Wormy_ | Of course |
| 19:04.01 | Monet | Not quite dismissing it. |
| 19:05.18 | The_Randomness | I'd have to dig through some logs to bring up the specific challenges it faces, since it's been long enough that I don't remember them |
| 19:11.49 | Monet | What I loosely gather (and this is probably an inaccurate analysis) is you have various social and political groups, and somehow encourage them to work together? |
| 19:14.52 | The_Randomness | one sec |
| 19:15.39 | The_Randomness | crap, queue popped in FFXIV, I'll get back to you in a little bit |
| 19:25.21 | Monet | I've come to consider I might be better with economic than political theory. |
| 19:38.09 | Wormy_ | Is it true you can't battle Pokemon in PkG? |
| 19:38.24 | Wormy_ | I'm not sure what you do in it aside from collect them |
| 19:38.48 | Wormy_ | I clicked on a gym and it didn't do anything |
| 19:39.49 | Monet | You can battle pokemon in gyms |
| 19:40.35 | Monet | Although from what I've seen combat (I think) amounts to "bash the other pokemon and dodge their blows until you win" |
| 19:42.54 | Monet | I've seen groups of people band together to look for Pokemon |
| 19:43.13 | Wormy_ | Thats cool |
| 19:59.39 | Wormy_ | Monet: Forces of Nature starting soon http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone |
| 19:59.58 | Monet | Ahh was going to have a 4 evening ronight |
| 20:02.13 | Monet | I'm partially intrigued by Rich Kids of Instagram after reading answers to "What are the advantages of growing up rich? And what are the cons?" on Quora |
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| 20:06.47 | Monet | The thing that struck me was a lot of one-percent peopel responded and confessed, growing up rich is very high pressure |
| 20:07.31 | Monet | One responder mentioned that while growing up they were taking part in extra-curricular activities practically dawn till dusk. |
| 20:11.39 | The_Randomness | Monet: Honestly, my post, and the Schmitter paper describe/summarize syndicalism better than I could here |
| 20:12.52 | The_Randomness | Well, a specific part of that schmitter paper |
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| 20:14.50 | DrodoEmpire | Monet: Yeah I figure growing up with wealth can have its own challenges |
| 20:15.28 | Monet | Another popular con is...you're almost expected to live a certain way. |
| 20:15.32 | DrodoEmpire | Even in the modern day where we no longer expect the rich to go out, buy their own weapons and armour, and fight as elite soldiers <.< |
| 20:16.10 | DrodoEmpire | Eh I think that's an issue seen by a lot of demographics honestly |
| 20:16.16 | DrodoEmpire | Or rather a situation |
| 20:17.19 | Monet | Well in the case of millionaires, you're going to get concerning looks by your peers if you live off microwave dinners or drive a Ford Fiesta. For example. |
| 20:17.31 | The_Randomness | I'll be back in a bit, need to go do something irl |
| 20:17.38 | DrodoEmpire | ...Yeah that's true |
| 20:17.53 | DrodoEmpire | I guess you're right, and there's a lot of historical context to that sorta thing |
| 20:19.22 | DrodoEmpire | The upper classes of most societies were indeed expected to live a rather strict category of lifestyle- what this entailed varied from dedicating one's life to discipline and death in battle (as with the Samurai) to the more familiar business and government work of the Roman Patricians |
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| 20:19.43 | DrodoEmpire | And big lifestyle for the last example |
| 20:19.43 | Quark8 | Hello. |
| 20:19.46 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 20:21.53 | DrodoEmpire | I find it interesting, though, how warfare in the most direct sense has almost disappeared as an upper-class occupation or activity |
| 20:22.24 | DrodoEmpire | When it was almost the sole activity and privilege of nobles in many places for a long time |
| 20:23.09 | Monet | A girl o nthe show just said "it is very important to be see nas wealthy because that's the worldwide trend at the moment" |
| 20:23.29 | DrodoEmpire | Personally I might chalk it up to army professionalism emphasising formal educations in warfare, the rise of self-made rich who lacked noble blood, and a general decrease in warfare globally |
| 20:23.56 | DrodoEmpire | So basically a displacement of the aristocracy and a fundimental change in what warfare is and how its conducted |
| 20:24.05 | DrodoEmpire | Huh |
| 20:24.11 | DrodoEmpire | Pretty sure its more than a trend. XD |
| 20:24.21 | DrodoEmpire | *Everybody* tried to look as wealthy as possible |
| 20:24.50 | Monet | Instagram helped with that movement in the past decade. |
| 20:25.01 | DrodoEmpire | Eeyeah maybe but again that's not new |
| 20:25.21 | DrodoEmpire | People have tried to display whatever wealth they had since there even was a scarcity of resources |
| 20:26.05 | *** join/#sporewiki morgoth1145 (~quassel@wikia/morgoth1145) |
| 20:26.05 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o morgoth1145] by ChanServ |
| 20:26.07 | Monet | Maybe the increasing numbers of wealthy in BRICs is contributing |
| 20:26.26 | DrodoEmpire | Whether its people wearing their best clothes when they sign up for the draft or go out to a nice dinner, or getting their finest wine they've been saving for a while when honoured guests come over, etc. |
| 20:26.35 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah possibly |
| 20:26.45 | DrodoEmpire | Actually *expressions* of wealth have changed somewhat for sure |
| 20:27.11 | DrodoEmpire | Though not as much as one may think |
| 20:27.16 | DrodoEmpire | Instead of a fine charger of a horse, its a nice car, for example |
| 20:27.41 | DrodoEmpire | But while the fashion itself has changed, what clothes somebody wear remains an immediate indicator of their class |
| 20:27.56 | DrodoEmpire | Its interesting really |
| 20:29.08 | Monet | Yeah |
| 20:29.16 | Monet | Fur is back in fashion, for instance. |
| 20:30.03 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
| 20:46.55 | Quark8 | test |
| 20:52.07 | Imperios | Gah did Spanish air affect my judgement or something |
| 20:52.17 | Imperios | I'm texting like every girl I have ever met |
| 20:52.30 | Imperios | I know I am going to be rejected |
| 20:52.33 | Imperios | But for some reason I do not care |
| 20:52.36 | Imperios | What the actual fuck |
| 20:56.58 | Monet | The romance is taking hold. |
| 20:57.33 | *** join/#sporewiki dino82_ (5815d129@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.21.209.41) |
| 20:58.02 | dino82_ | hi |
| 20:58.19 | Monet | hi |
| 20:59.04 | dino82_ | howz all doing |
| 20:59.44 | Quark8 | Fine, thank you. You? |
| 21:01.13 | Monet | Pretty good. |
| 21:01.32 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:04.24 | Technobliterator | Who's performing? |
| 21:05.27 | dino82_ | Great thanks |
| 21:05.34 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:05.53 | Technobliterator | nice |
| 21:08.30 | *** join/#sporewiki ColliNOS (43f25082@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.242.80.130) |
| 21:08.35 | ColliNOS | hi! |
| 21:10.00 | Monet | Hello |
| 21:11.11 | ColliNOS | how is life |
| 21:11.27 | dino82_ | hi |
| 21:12.32 | ColliNOS | how is your summer going |
| 21:15.06 | Monet | Fairly relaxing |
| 21:15.10 | Monet | Not bored yet |
| 21:20.31 | ColliNOS | im sweating my arse off. luckily storms are brewing |
| 21:23.04 | Monet | It was hot where I am, but as the night rolled in things cooled down |
| 21:23.21 | dino82_ | warm here as well hahaha |
| 21:23.38 | ColliNOS | your lucky. my AC is dead |
| 21:24.09 | ColliNOS | im dying of heat death |
| 21:24.29 | dino82_ | auch |
| 21:25.05 | ColliNOS | what is your fav sproe mod |
| 21:25.06 | ColliNOS | spore* |
| 21:26.55 | Monet | You're lucky, I don't have AC. |
| 21:27.34 | ColliNOS | i basically dont have one right now, since it is dead |
| 21:28.03 | Monet | As In I have no AC installed. At all. |
| 21:28.18 | Monet | If it gets hot, the best I can do is open a few windows. |
| 21:29.07 | ColliNOS | here is my guide to not be hot |
| 21:29.13 | ColliNOS | 1. go to sink |
| 21:29.18 | ColliNOS | 2. put head in sink |
| 21:29.28 | ColliNOS | 3. turn faucet on |
| 21:29.45 | ColliNOS | 4. feel cool |
| 21:30.14 | Monet | I drink cold water, it's not as immediate but it's effective. |
| 21:32.35 | ColliNOS | wat |
| 21:33.37 | DrodoEmpire | Ah, shite |
| 21:33.38 | ColliNOS | ughhh. i cant think of any ideas for spore creations. that add on, to my empire |
| 21:33.40 | DrodoEmpire | Missed dino |
| 21:33.57 | ColliNOS | hello |
| 21:33.58 | Monet | For me there are few things more relieving than a nice glass of chilled tap water. |
| 21:34.09 | Monet | Or a glass of orange juice. |
| 21:34.17 | ColliNOS | eck. i dont like juice |
| 21:34.23 | ColliNOS | i like milk shakes |
| 21:35.17 | Monet | Juice is a good source of vitamins. Good for the immune system. |
| 21:35.38 | ColliNOS | i drink regular milk instead of juice |
| 21:36.11 | Monet | I like to start each day with a glass. |
| 21:36.21 | ColliNOS | of what. milk |
| 21:36.32 | Monet | juice |
| 21:39.27 | ColliNOS | i start off each day with a bowl of outmeal |
| 21:39.30 | ColliNOS | oatmeal* |
| 21:40.15 | DrodoEmpire | I really like oatmeal, or porridge for that matter as strange as that may sound >.< |
| 21:40.54 | ColliNOS | i would take oatmeal over eggs |
| 21:40.55 | DrodoEmpire | I recall one time a few months ago now I cooked some ancient Sumerian cuisine, which included some really kickass porridge <.< |
| 21:41.10 | ColliNOS | one question |
| 21:41.18 | DrodoEmpire | Hm? |
| 21:41.19 | ColliNOS | how the heck did we get on this conversation |
| 21:41.25 | DrodoEmpire | No clue XD |
| 21:41.37 | ColliNOS | xD, i know the answer |
| 21:41.40 | ColliNOS | THE INTERNET |
| 21:41.47 | Monet | I mentioned I drink water or orange juice to cool down. |
| 21:42.05 | Monet | And you said 'wat' |
| 21:42.07 | DrodoEmpire | This is pretty well the nature of conversations on this channel, they sorta drift from subject to subject and then stop abruptly until the next conversation's struck up |
| 21:42.56 | ColliNOS | or someone awkward says something |
| 21:43.52 | ColliNOS | someone help |
| 21:43.52 | DrodoEmpire | : |
| 21:43.54 | DrodoEmpire | *:p |
| 21:44.01 | ColliNOS | im playing google feud |
| 21:44.11 | ColliNOS | i have NO IDEA on what to say |
| 21:45.27 | Wormy_ | ColliNOS, Monet: Here's a compromise I use: flush your hands with cold water. You immediately feel the cold on the outside, while inside it cools all the blood flushing back up through the body/ |
| 21:46.04 | ColliNOS | good idea |
| 21:48.40 | ColliNOS | Drodo. i am fixing the stomajaw empire wiki, im making it less op and stuff |
| 21:49.16 | Monet | Wormy_: Useful |
| 21:49.48 | ColliNOS | Monet. what is better Eggs or Oatmeal |
| 21:52.28 | Monet | Tough choice as I have taken a liking to egg and cress recently. |
| 21:53.02 | ColliNOS | heres a really hard question. whats better cake or ice cream |
| 21:54.06 | Wormy_ | Always go for the compromises https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/a5/8d/9b/a58d9b47009238a1a6a4790576537667.jpg |
| 21:54.45 | Monet | Cake |
| 21:54.50 | ColliNOS | thank you |
| 21:54.58 | Monet | You can't eat ice cream in winter. |
| 21:55.00 | DrodoEmpire | ColliNOS: Good to hear |
| 21:55.11 | DrodoEmpire | Look to other pages as a guideline and for inspiration |
| 21:55.33 | DrodoEmpire | Like mine http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction%3ADrodo_Empire |
| 21:55.44 | Wormy_ | http://i.imgur.com/oGBXQbK.jpg |
| 21:55.59 | DrodoEmpire | (Though, it need not be so complete right out the gate- my page is the result of four years of work and I'm still not happy with it) |
| 21:56.14 | DrodoEmpire | Its always a work in progress, fiction |
| 21:56.57 | ColliNOS | well the thing is the stomajaw empire. Is real in spore. i have a whole sporepedia on the empire |
| 21:57.06 | Wormy_ | That reminds me, need to work on the Super Collab geology |
| 21:57.34 | DrodoEmpire | The Drodo started the same way |
| 21:57.55 | DrodoEmpire | The big thing with the fictionverse is that for the most part its departed from the actual game- you |
| 21:58.06 | ColliNOS | you got inspiration from your empire in spore. and wanted to write about it |
| 21:58.16 | DrodoEmpire | *you're free to mention tech and stuff from Spore but keep what I say in mind regarding it |
| 21:58.42 | ColliNOS | yeah |
| 22:02.46 | ColliNOS | i got a question. how do i put links to other wiki's related to the one your making |
| 22:03.02 | ColliNOS | im trying to add a link to the stomajaw's king |
| 22:03.16 | DrodoEmpire | What, you mean add links to your page? |
| 22:03.41 | DrodoEmpire | If its within the wiki, just put "[[ ]]" around the article name |
| 22:03.41 | morgothBotPy | DrodoEmpire meant: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/_ |
| 22:03.55 | DrodoEmpire | So, for example, "[[Civilization Stage]]" |
| 22:03.56 | morgothBotPy | DrodoEmpire meant: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Civilization_Stage |
| 22:04.15 | ColliNOS | like for the borealis grox page. they have a link to King mirras III, which is to a whole seperate page |
| 22:04.16 | DrodoEmpire | If you want the link to be there, but to be under a different name, put a "|" in |
| 22:04.26 | DrodoEmpire | Yep, this is how to do it |
| 22:04.34 | ColliNOS | ok |
| 22:04.48 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:3410:e985:400b:f049) |
| 22:04.48 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 22:05.04 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 22:05.06 | DrodoEmpire | So for this let's use, say "[[Creature:Drodo|short fuzzy hat-wearing imperialists]]" |
| 22:05.06 | morgothBotPy | DrodoEmpire meant: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:Drodo |
| 22:05.29 | DrodoEmpire | Instead of saying "Creature:Drodo" it'd say "short fuzzy hat-wearing imperialists" as a link |
| 22:05.58 | DrodoEmpire | Its useful for hiding the namespace of a page |
| 22:06.47 | ColliNOS | ok. thank you for the tip |
| 22:07.00 | DrodoEmpire | No problem |
| 22:07.06 | DrodoEmpire | Just ask if you want to collab or something |
| 22:08.21 | ColliNOS | like collab empires? |
| 22:08.32 | DrodoEmpire | Do a fiction story together |
| 22:08.32 | ColliNOS | sorry if thats a noobish question |
| 22:08.47 | DrodoEmpire | And there's no such thing as a stupid question |
| 22:08.56 | ColliNOS | that would be cool. but lemme finish fixing up the wiki |
| 22:09.12 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah you will want at least a bit of meat to the fiction first |
| 22:10.03 | ColliNOS | yeah im gonna add more to it. cuz i see it was short. |
| 22:10.43 | DrodoEmpire | Are you planning to make one big edit? I don't see much changed yet |
| 22:10.54 | DrodoEmpire | (Which is fine because I do pretty much the same thing) |
| 22:11.39 | ColliNOS | yeah, i changed the formation time and stuff. the currency is finally fixed to not how much |
| 22:12.04 | DrodoEmpire | Alright, |
| 22:12.15 | DrodoEmpire | Looking forward to seeing the edit |
| 22:12.16 | DrodoEmpire | :D |
| 22:12.39 | ColliNOS | thanks. >.< i cant get any ideas for outfitting the Stomajaw King |
| 22:12.45 | DrodoEmpire | Also one thing- I see you've indented your paragraphs |
| 22:13.00 | ColliNOS | yeah |
| 22:13.07 | DrodoEmpire | Lemme tell you, because this isn't just a wiki thing this is a life thing- *nobody* indents |
| 22:13.08 | DrodoEmpire | Ever |
| 22:13.09 | DrodoEmpire | XD |
| 22:13.14 | DrodoEmpire | People just don't care XD |
| 22:13.22 | ColliNOS | oh. that wasnt intentional |
| 22:13.26 | ColliNOS | idk why it did that |
| 22:13.38 | DrodoEmpire | The inly time I've ever had to indent it was for a research paper and it never came up again |
| 22:13.40 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh |
| 22:13.52 | DrodoEmpire | Well with the wiki its bad because it makes everything in to a weird list |
| 22:14.11 | DrodoEmpire | I fixed it for you, hope you don't mind |
| 22:14.17 | ColliNOS | its fine |
| 22:15.08 | ColliNOS | thanks for that. and how would you like the collab. if you got spore we can collab on an adventure |
| 22:15.12 | Monet | feels bad now as he uses indents for off-wiki paragraphs |
| 22:15.41 | ColliNOS | am i the only one who listens to music while typing a sotry |
| 22:15.51 | ColliNOS | because it gives me motivation |
| 22:16.40 | Monet | No, it's a pretty common technique |
| 22:17.04 | ColliNOS | i love listening to OMFG hello |
| 22:17.16 | DrodoEmpire | ColliNOS: Nah, not an adventure |
| 22:17.19 | DrodoEmpire | Writing |
| 22:17.21 | ColliNOS | ok. |
| 22:17.37 | DrodoEmpire | That's what the vast majority of fiction collabs are, especially now |
| 22:18.01 | ColliNOS | aye |
| 22:18.25 | ColliNOS | who made the Borealis grox creation |
| 22:18.33 | ColliNOS | because they did a hella job |
| 22:18.59 | ColliNOS | i ment awesome |
| 22:22.50 | DrodoEmpire | Oluap did |
| 22:22.54 | DrodoEmpire | He's one of the older users |
| 22:22.57 | DrodoEmpire | Been here for ages |
| 22:24.19 | ColliNOS | well dang. he did a mighty fine job at the creature. |
| 22:45.57 | ColliNOS | so Drodo. what will the collab be about exactly |
| 22:46.55 | Monet | He's gone |
| 22:49.48 | ColliNOS | oh. ok |
| 22:50.24 | ColliNOS | well. Monet. my brother is weird. he likes icecream and he likes cake, but he doesnt liek icecream cake |
| 22:52.14 | Monet | I've tried ice cream on cake. |
| 22:52.29 | Monet | Vanilla goes well with chocolate or brownies. |
| 22:55.53 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (2f37c5db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.55.197.219) |
| 22:55.58 | Quark8 | Whenever I have vanilla on brownies (I've never had it on chocolate before), I tend to melt the brownies a little. To me, cold brownies don't taste as good with vanilla. |
| 22:56.03 | Quark8 | Hello Drodo. |
| 22:56.23 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 23:13.27 | *** join/#sporewiki ColliNOS (43f25082@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.242.80.130) |
| 23:14.01 | Quark8 | Hello ColliNOS. |
| 23:14.18 | ColliNOS | hello |
| 23:15.50 | ColliNOS | well |
| 23:42.09 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 23:42.18 | Quark8 | Hello. |
| 23:45.45 | ColliNOS | hi |
