| 00:01.09 | *** join/#sporewiki Spluff5 (d237baa5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.55.186.165) |
| 00:04.26 | Spluff5 | I made this spreadsheet of my races, any thoughts? |
| 00:04.28 | Spluff5 | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rO4iV1NLGw2gm6FQRRplEE6jpTnBv0eR2EMq2RxCejA/edit#gid=0 |
| 00:06.36 | The_Randomness | My main thought is good luck fleshing all those out |
| 00:06.42 | Spluff5 | Even thoughts about the functionality of this link? |
| 00:06.50 | Spluff5 | Heh |
| 00:06.51 | Spluff5 | Heh |
| 00:07.08 | DrodoEmpire | Its a good spreadsheet, but... Yeah, you're starting big |
| 00:07.14 | The_Randomness | Never start big |
| 00:07.15 | The_Randomness | ever |
| 00:07.27 | DrodoEmpire | I like your ambition, though |
| 00:07.42 | Spluff5 | Wel, I have been doing this for a while, just not on this wiki |
| 00:07.54 | DrodoEmpire | Do you have a very well-developed idea already? |
| 00:08.52 | The_Randomness | Also, while I like how you've organized it, a number of the classifications you've listed aren't useful. |
| 00:08.52 | Spluff5 | Not "very" but quite, I'm only starting with the Sanurans on this wiki though and going from there. This spreadsheet is from an earlier but very similar project I'm going to adapt. |
| 00:09.32 | The_Randomness | "Society - Zen" is one of them that stands out |
| 00:09.57 | DrodoEmpire | Alright |
| 00:09.58 | The_Randomness | You will also need to justify why all of these things are this way |
| 00:10.13 | DrodoEmpire | One thing at a time, Randomness |
| 00:10.17 | The_Randomness | However, I do give you credit for making demonyms ahead of time |
| 00:10.33 | DrodoEmpire | I dislike the idea that a fiction must be fully-developed the minute its on the wiki- it needn't be' |
| 00:10.43 | DrodoEmpire | Have these things in mind though, and start small |
| 00:11.05 | DrodoEmpire | Or at least with a well-developed idea if you're going big |
| 00:12.46 | The_Randomness | I don't expect it to be fully fleshed out the moment it appears on the wiki, but at least have a plan of what you're going to do going in and make it apparent in some way that you've put in that work |
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| 00:19.13 | *** join/#sporewiki Technobliterator (Technoblit@gateway/shell/firrre/x-gsmmoqaxmkaosxvk) |
| 00:19.13 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Technobliterator] by ChanServ |
| 00:22.18 | The_Randomness | Hey Techno |
| 00:22.53 | The_Randomness | Looks like the TES/Fallout block for SGDQ has started |
| 00:28.47 | Technobliterator | hihi |
| 00:30.15 | The_Randomness | The game is completely busted, so that means everything is going as planned |
| 00:30.54 | Technobliterator | lmao |
| 00:31.40 | Cyrannian|STO | The_Randomness: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/270596815983909634/D2006D4F2E6FD96C6C8C36D05E831C3DBD5F62AA/ - I want one! |
| 00:31.56 | The_Randomness | :o |
| 00:34.18 | Cyrannian|STO | Must be larger than an Odyssey |
| 00:35.08 | The_Randomness | hm, don't know if it's that large |
| 00:36.37 | Cyrannian|STO | That one was all on its lonesome, so I only had a Constitution to compare it with. Though it annoys me that it is only obtainable via lobi or a lockbox |
| 00:49.31 | Monet | Perfect World needs to pay for its servers somehow. |
| 00:49.43 | Monet | (I'm being cynical I know :< ) |
| 00:49.57 | DrodoEmpire | ur always cynical |
| 00:50.13 | DrodoEmpire | and if you agree with them so much and youre so cynical |
| 00:50.20 | DrodoEmpire | why don't they call themselves cynical world |
| 00:50.24 | DrodoEmpire | hah |
| 00:50.34 | The_Randomness | nice shitpost m8 |
| 00:50.42 | DrodoEmpire | :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::') |
| 00:51.03 | Monet | I've heard some baaaad things about Perfect World. |
| 00:51.25 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, they're the lot that run STO? |
| 00:51.49 | Monet | Yeah |
| 00:52.07 | Monet | THe whole lockbox thing only really started after they fully took over. |
| 00:52.19 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah... Maybe I'm just bad with MMOs but I got the feeling that they were always trying to swindle you in that game |
| 00:52.23 | DrodoEmpire | A lot of stuff you had to pay for |
| 00:52.50 | The_Randomness | I never felt that way. Anything that you could pay for with $$$ you can get through other methods |
| 00:53.04 | DrodoEmpire | Fair enough- I'm probably just misremembering |
| 00:53.13 | Monet | Its just quite tedious to do so. |
| 00:53.20 | The_Randomness | Yeah, a bit |
| 00:53.21 | DrodoEmpire | Its been literal years since I logged on to STO >.< |
| 00:53.34 | Monet | MMO servers are *very* expensive to maintain. |
| 00:53.35 | DrodoEmpire | Last time I was on there was the whole borg thing going on |
| 00:53.39 | DrodoEmpire | Oh for sure |
| 00:54.32 | DrodoEmpire | Free to Play games got to be creative when it comes to revenue >.< |
| 00:54.44 | Technobliterator | The investment is high, but that also means they want the profits to be fairly large - there's no point keeping a game running if all it does is pay for itself to continue existing |
| 00:54.54 | DrodoEmpire | Honestly I'm not a huge fan of F2P games as they tend to be pretty convoluted and in many cases- not free :p |
| 00:55.17 | The_Randomness | I don't play enough F2P games to say much |
| 00:55.28 | DrodoEmpire | I'd much sooner pay upfront and have a fair game or pay for a subscription for a merit-based MMO |
| 00:55.33 | DrodoEmpire | Or, more Merit-based |
| 00:55.49 | Monet | That's GW2's model |
| 00:55.59 | DrodoEmpire | Paying for a game upfront is the difference between CS:GO and Soldier Front :p |
| 00:56.29 | Technobliterator | The only thing that really annoys me is full priced games with lots of microtransactions on top of that |
| 00:56.31 | DrodoEmpire | Ah, I did hear some good things about that |
| 00:56.38 | DrodoEmpire | Oh I despise that Technobliterator |
| 00:56.45 | DrodoEmpire | That's the worst |
| 00:56.50 | DrodoEmpire | Well, it depends |
| 00:57.06 | DrodoEmpire | I don't like it when those microtransactions present a significant advantage |
| 00:57.35 | DrodoEmpire | So I don't mind it in CS:GO where its a pretty skin for your gun or a horribly impractical knife :p |
| 00:57.35 | Technobliterator | I get that they want to be able to pay for servers long after the game has been released, but in too many cases it seems like a scam |
| 00:57.39 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:57.43 | Technobliterator | Indeed |
| 00:57.57 | Cyrannian|STO | STO is probably the best F2P game I've played though, as in, you can quite easily play without paying for anything |
| 00:58.03 | DrodoEmpire | Fair enough |
| 00:58.05 | Technobliterator | How good an F2P model is depends mostly on how good the game is |
| 00:58.24 | The_Randomness | Also, the grinding isn't bad at all, you get dilithium fairly quickly from doing your dailies |
| 00:58.58 | DrodoEmpire | Okay cool |
| 00:59.02 | Technobliterator | I don't normally mind payments as a grinding shortcut |
| 00:59.17 | DrodoEmpire | It sorta depends for me but if its reasonable then I don't either |
| 00:59.35 | Monet | I think GW2 does have a cash sho pbut nothing that'll affect the game whatsoever. All completely cosmetic. |
| 00:59.43 | DrodoEmpire | I mean if the grinding is so long and tedious thatthe only practical option is to buy then I don't like that |
| 00:59.55 | DrodoEmpire | As it basically coerces you in to buying their shit |
| 01:00.08 | Cyrannian|STO | I definitely wouldn't recommend playing SWTOR F2P for example |
| 01:00.09 | Technobliterator | yeah, that's when it's just a scam |
| 01:00.22 | Technobliterator | SWTOR's model seems fairly reasonable |
| 01:01.16 | Cyrannian|STO | Haven't played it F2P in a while. I just remember how annoying the respawn probes were |
| 01:01.32 | Monet | You lose out on some loot and XP is a little slower, but it's not like you're locked out of anything. |
| 01:01.57 | Monet | As a vetern of WoW I'm used to corpse runs. |
| 01:02.20 | The_Randomness | Corpse runs? |
| 01:02.44 | Monet | Where you have t orun back to where you died. |
| 01:02.55 | Technobliterator | I mean, I always got the sense that the SWTOR F2P mode was basically just a trial mode for the full game just named differently, which doesn't bother me |
| 01:03.00 | Monet | SWTOR doesn't have that exactly buut it can feel like it. |
| 01:03.18 | Monet | Yeah it kind of is. |
| 01:03.47 | Monet | There's also preferred which is a middle ground if you've had a subscription before. |
| 01:07.17 | The_Randomness | This speedrun of TES: Daggerfall has me amazed by how broken some of these old games are |
| 01:07.25 | Cyrannian|STO | You should play KotFE, the story is actually like a Bioware game |
| 01:07.32 | The_Randomness | It's not quite as broken as the first gen Pokemon games though |
| 01:07.40 | DrodoEmpire | I've seen a speedrun of HL2, so I can believe it XD |
| 01:07.59 | Technobliterator | I saw one speedrum of the first Mario game |
| 01:08.02 | Technobliterator | that was insane |
| 01:08.11 | Technobliterator | Speedruns are so fun to watch |
| 01:08.15 | The_Randomness | yeah |
| 01:08.21 | OluapTop | I like watching TAS speedruns |
| 01:08.33 | *** join/#sporewiki Spluff5 (d237baa5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.55.186.165) |
| 01:08.47 | The_Randomness | TAS speedruns can be pretty cool |
| 01:09.20 | DrodoEmpire | Hi again |
| 01:09.25 | The_Randomness | TASbot runs are fun to watch |
| 01:11.03 | Spluff5 | I'm writing the page fro the Sanurans, my first race. Are there any pages that have a really good format for an Empire that I can emulate? |
| 01:11.53 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
| 01:12.14 | DrodoEmpire | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction%3ADrodo_Empire - I will humbly nominate mine <.< |
| 01:12.43 | DrodoEmpire | It doesn't need to be as complete as mine off the get-go- this page is ~4 years of work and remains a work in progress |
| 01:12.47 | Spluff5 | He, nice |
| 01:13.16 | The_Randomness | "Sometimes you click so fast the door doesn't want to (be a) door" |
| 01:13.46 | DrodoEmpire | I hate it when my door has an identity crisis |
| 01:14.25 | Spluff5 | As, so its a multi-species empire? |
| 01:14.41 | DrodoEmpire | The Drodo? |
| 01:15.05 | DrodoEmpire | ? |
| 01:16.54 | Spluff5 | Yeah |
| 01:17.14 | DrodoEmpire | Well... Technically, yes, they're multi-species |
| 01:17.25 | DrodoEmpire | As in, they have expats from other countries- especially France |
| 01:17.49 | DrodoEmpire | However its more multiethnic- the Drodo, as with most species, are divided among dozens of cultures and languages and their Empire reflects that |
| 01:18.18 | Spluff5 | Ah, with the Sanurans there are so few of them its pretty much one culture. |
| 01:18.26 | Spluff5 | The entire empire only has 4 Billion |
| 01:18.58 | The_Randomness | oh wow, they just passed $500k raised by SGDQ |
| 01:19.01 | DrodoEmpire | Its a huge patchwork of cultures, nations, languages, peoples, classes, and religions that are all under the loose control of the federal government, which they entrust to represent the Drodo people in foreign affairs and keep *some* order |
| 01:19.17 | DrodoEmpire | Only four billion? |
| 01:19.33 | OluapTop | I'm pretty sure he's just asking if there are more species than the Drodo in there hur |
| 01:20.17 | Spluff5 | Ah, yes nice |
| 01:20.59 | Monet | Drodo likes his alien species to be internally diverse. |
| 01:20.59 | Spluff5 | Yes, they come from a very hostile planet which makes very few of them because it's difficult to reproduce and they have a very long lifespan |
| 01:21.33 | Spluff5 | There's a picture of it on the wiki, I'll try to find it. |
| 01:22.05 | Spluff5 | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/File:Sanura.png' |
| 01:22.18 | Spluff5 | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/File:Sanura.png |
| 01:22.32 | Spluff5 | I added an apostrophe by mistake the first time Lol |
| 01:23.08 | DrodoEmpire | OluapTop: I know. >.< But its a complex question in regards to the Drodo because they're diverse in a different but equally significant way |
| 01:23.33 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah not my top tourist destination Spluff XD |
| 01:23.37 | OluapTop | deres drodo and deres giant space lobster |
| 01:23.40 | OluapTop | two separate species |
| 01:24.00 | OluapTop | Regardless I get what you mean |
| 01:24.17 | Spluff5 | Yeah, other species have to stay in the embassy when they visit. |
| 01:24.48 | DrodoEmpire | I'd think so. XD |
| 01:25.14 | Spluff5 | Though power isn't a problem. Plenty of Geothermal energy. |
| 01:25.25 | DrodoEmpire | True |
| 01:25.37 | DrodoEmpire | That could power a lot of infrastructure |
| 01:25.41 | Spluff5 | They actually discovered how to use electricity before discovering fuels. |
| 01:25.56 | Cyrannian|STO | Night folks |
| 01:25.56 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah that's actually quite possible |
| 01:25.59 | DrodoEmpire | Night |
| 01:26.27 | Spluff5 | Night |
| 01:26.53 | Spluff5 | Oh no, I accidentally clicked off my page on the Sanurans and now I can't find it! |
| 01:27.04 | DrodoEmpire | Which one? |
| 01:27.07 | DrodoEmpire | Did you link it here? |
| 01:27.25 | DrodoEmpire | Also- if you're on Google Chrome I'm pretty sure you can go to your history and check "recently closed" |
| 01:27.32 | Spluff5 | No, it was very under constructuion |
| 01:27.36 | Spluff5 | Good point |
| 01:27.51 | DrodoEmpire | It saves progress even if you didn't save it I believe, so no loss |
| 01:28.10 | Spluff5 | Yeah |
| 01:28.25 | Spluff5 | Where do I put a link or something though so I can find it again? |
| 01:28.48 | DrodoEmpire | You could bookmark it |
| 01:29.04 | Spluff5 | Thanks, BRB |
| 01:47.40 | DrodoEmpire | test |
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| 04:28.21 | Spluff5 | I'm back |
| 04:29.02 | The_Randomness | w |
| 04:29.03 | The_Randomness | wb |
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| 05:23.41 | Spluff5 | Hi |
| 05:32.04 | Spluff5 | If I'm making a page about an empire are History, Technology, Government, Society and Biology the headings people would use? |
| 05:32.53 | The_Randomness | I'd keep biology to the species page |
| 05:33.59 | The_Randomness | I'd say History, Government, Entertainment and the Arts, Economics, and Warfare are the big ones |
| 05:39.15 | Spluff5 | Should I create a separate page for the actual species and then make a separate page for the race of people? |
| 05:41.38 | The_Randomness | Yes, one for the society, another for the species |
| 05:50.46 | Spluff5 | Hmm |
| 05:51.11 | Spluff5 | I could but they do very closely affect each other though, might be a lot of repetition |
| 05:59.21 | The_Randomness | Why would there be a lot of repetition? |
| 06:10.41 | Spluff5 | I mean across the pages, their society very closely tied to their biology so I would have to include a lot of information for both over both pages. |
| 06:13.42 | AnonyLurk | When in doubt, do it as everyone else does it. |
| 06:13.45 | AnonyLurk | Therefore, create two pagefs. |
| 06:13.55 | AnonyLurk | Though, personally, I would just do one, that's not convention here. |
| 06:17.58 | Spluff5 | If I take a screenshot in game, which license do I use when uploading it? |
| 06:30.50 | *** join/#sporewiki Ghelae (6d9ec921@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.158.201.33) |
| 06:30.50 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 06:31.02 | The_Randomness | Ghelae: good morning |
| 06:31.24 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 06:33.25 | Spluff5 | Hi |
| 06:33.34 | Spluff5 | I'm a new one |
| 06:33.48 | The_Randomness | Yes, we have some fresh meat |
| 06:35.52 | Ghelae | Yes; I see you've been editing the wiki. |
| 06:37.19 | Ghelae | I'm thinking of editing Trebeard's reply on your "New Here" thread so the Milky Way map isn't so excessively large. |
| 07:01.49 | Ghelae | Hmm. Maybe that's not an improvement. |
| 07:01.59 | Ghelae | But you can at least click on the image to view the full thing. |
| 07:03.11 | Ghelae | Well, I can always revert it. |
| 07:04.31 | Ghelae | That's not even a full galaxy map anyway. |
| 07:10.20 | Spluff5 | Yeah, It would also be helpful if it showed the actual galaxy underneath so you could see where all the empires are. |
| 07:16.41 | Spluff5 | Not so good with HTML. if I want to shrink down the size of an already uploaded image and place it left-aligned next to a paragraph of text? |
| 07:19.03 | Ghelae | It's wikicode not HTML, but: the overall code is e.g. [[File:Imagename.png|left|300px]]. |
| 07:19.19 | Ghelae | For a caption, [[File:Imagename.png|left|300px|thumb|Caption.]] |
| 07:19.39 | Ghelae | It doesn't matter in what order you put the "left", "thumb", "300px" arguments. |
| 07:46.23 | Spluff5 | Thanks, it worked very well. |
| 07:47.01 | Spluff5 | When taking screenshots of things in space do you guys really struggle to get the lighting right? Any tips? |
| 07:49.17 | Ghelae | I do remember sometimes having to very carefully set the time of day and atmospheric thickness in the adventure editor to something suitable, and then properly align whatever scene I'm making towards or away from the sunlight. |
| 07:51.21 | Spluff5 | Thanks, it's a particular problem for me because the ship is so darkly colored. |
| 08:00.46 | Spluff5 | How do you alter the height for the Freecam? |
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| 08:07.43 | Spluff5 | Hi again |
| 08:09.16 | Ghelae | Scroll with a mouse wheel, IIRC, although there may be +/- buttons on the screen you can use too. GA isn't working for me right now so I can't confirm directly. |
| 08:09.54 | Spluff5 | Yeah, thanks. That works enough to get the shot I wanted. |
| 08:24.39 | Spluff5 | Is there an established lore on how the Interstellar Drive is supposed to work? |
| 08:26.10 | Ghelae | Not in-game. On the wiki, http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Project:Fiction_Universe/Important_Topics/Hyperspace |
| 08:26.53 | Ghelae | I imagine the in-game drives are a rudimentary form of "jump drive". |
| 08:28.29 | Ghelae | I've also realised that the stuff about negative mass reducing inertia would actually not be true. I'll need to either fix that part or ignore it... |
| 08:30.04 | Spluff5 | This is science FICTION and is by no means hard SciFi, you could just ignore it if you want to. |
| 08:31.03 | Spluff5 | The reason I ask id that I've invented a new form on interstellar drive that I need to make sure is not just exactly the same as the already ubiquitous Interstellar Drive. |
| 08:35.22 | Ghelae | The key phrase in "you could just ignore it if you want to" is "if you want to". :P |
| 08:37.55 | Spluff5 | Yeah |
| 08:38.23 | Spluff5 | Is there established lore on fictional metals and materials? I'm designing an alloy. |
| 08:39.47 | Ghelae | Not really. |
| 08:40.27 | Spluff5 | Cool. ALL THE TUNGSTEN!! |
| 08:50.23 | Ghelae | Oh, on the interstellar drive: the description of the jump drive was directly based on the behaviour in-game drives. Mainly because in-game drives are very dissimilar to sci-fi warp drives and hyperdrives, because they only allow you to visit planets and stars. |
| 08:50.53 | Spluff5 | Yeah, I did notice that. |
| 08:52.47 | Ghelae | And on alloys etc., I think the issue is that there simply hasn't been an effort to go into the scifiverse's materials science (there have been discussions about it for the fantasyverse, but they haven't got very far either). Most of us are content to just use words like "diamondoid" or "durasteel". |
| 08:53.52 | Ghelae | Occasionally users (usually new ones) will decide to describe their empire's armour as using some super-special new element, but those ideas don't tend to catch on. |
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| 09:10.31 | Spluff5 | Ok |
| 09:11.18 | Spluff5 | I've written some stuff for the wiki and created a quite indepth page now for an empire. |
| 09:11.24 | Spluff5 | What do I do now? |
| 09:11.42 | Spluff5 | Do I need to post a link to it somewhere? |
| 09:15.55 | Ghelae | No. At least, not yet. The best thing to do is wait until more people are here, and then discuss interactions between your fiction and theirs. They'll usually want you to give them a link then. |
| 09:16.56 | Ghelae | Or discuss it on message walls. |
| 09:28.43 | Spluff5 | Enter, the Sanurans! |
| 09:28.48 | Spluff5 | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:The_Sanurans#gallery-0 |
| 09:32.51 | Charles_Bot | Ghelae: I might have need of your scientific expertise |
| 09:33.02 | Charles_Bot | In physics, to be exact |
| 09:33.35 | Spluff5 | For my stuff? |
| 09:34.10 | Ghelae | Charles_Bot: Okay. |
| 09:36.35 | Charles_Bot | I've been thinking a lot about French military and strategic doctrine over the past few days, especially insofar as air power is concerned. France always had a strong strike force, though never leaned very strongly on strategic uses of air power for deterrence, to target opposing infrastructure, industry, logistics, etc |
| 09:37.06 | Charles_Bot | They had the capability, but never invested in a dedicated strategic bomber |
| 09:37.34 | Charles_Bot | That's changed as France's strategic and political situation has changed, and they just started producing their own strategic bombers |
| 09:38.29 | Charles_Bot | I've been thinking about how strategic bombers would be deployed and how they'd inflict damage in a hyperspatial/fictionverse setting |
| 09:40.48 | Charles_Bot | I considered bombs dropped from within an atmosphere initially, forcing a bomber to not only cross great distances to get to a planetary target, but to descend far into a planetary atmosphere to be able to drop its bombs. In so doing, it would be exposing itself to anti-aircraft fire from the surface (if there are emplacements there), on top of the threat of |
| 09:40.48 | Charles_Bot | interception |
| 09:41.01 | Charles_Bot | But then I considered something different |
| 09:42.44 | Charles_Bot | What if the bombers arrived in orbit carrying kinetic rods, dropped them on a trajectory to their target, then left? How easy would they be to aim? How feasible would it be to modulate the amount of destruction wanted by modifying the size and dispersion of the rods? |
| 09:43.14 | Charles_Bot | Ghelae: </done> |
| 09:44.40 | Charles_Bot | (Also, would it be possible to inflict non-nuclear levels of damage with small kinetic rods?) |
| 09:45.50 | Ghelae | Aiming would be very difficult, if they were just dumb bombs. Especially if you wanted to aim them during a very short period of time, in flight, when there's an atmosphere below with turbulance and such factors to take into account. But given a basic guidance system, I reckon they should be fairly precise. |
| 09:47.18 | Ghelae | As for damage, you could certainly do non-nuclear levels. Assuming for the sake of simplicity that all rods are shaped such that have the same terminal velocity (at extremely large or small sizes this approximation is going to fail), the kinetic energy of a round is going to be directly proportional to its mass. |
| 09:49.10 | Charles_Bot | (Kinetic rods are just metal rods, aimed straight down, and shaped for minimum air resistance; their destructive power comes from the force of their impact after having been dropped from orbit, not from any payload) |
| 09:49.29 | Charles_Bot | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment |
| 09:49.31 | Ghelae | (I know that.) |
| 09:49.38 | Charles_Bot | (Alright, got it) |
| 09:50.28 | Ghelae | For example, for the explosive power of 1 ton of TNT, rather than kilotons or megatons, an impact speed of 1 km/s would require a mass of aout 8.4 kilograms. |
| 09:50.39 | Ghelae | about* |
| 09:52.39 | Ghelae | As for modulating destruction by dispersal of the weapons, I imagine that would be similar to doing so by any explosive bombs. |
| 09:53.28 | Charles_Bot | So factors which would impact the accuracy of an unguided rod once fired from orbit (where there is no atmosphere) would be: air resistance, air currents? Would the metallic rod (made out of tungsten) lose mass on its way down, and that would be something else planners would have to consider? |
| 09:54.42 | Ghelae | There could be some mass loss, but I assume that tungsten is chosen not only for its density but also for not wearing down very much. |
| 09:56.17 | Charles_Bot | At 8.4 kilograms, would the mass lost be dramatic enough as to affect the resulting level of destruction, or negligible? |
| 09:56.26 | Ghelae | And factors affecting its flight; yes, it's the air. A constant air resistance is what's going to slow it down to terminal velocity once it hits the atmosphere, while movement of the air can push it around. Probably not by much, given how fast it'll be travelling, but if precision is what you want then it's still important. |
| 09:58.09 | Ghelae | I don't know enough about the behaviour of tungsten under such conditions, but I imagine it would be negligible. |
| 09:58.54 | Spluff5 | I might go to bed now, thanks for all your help. I would really appreciate it if you gave my page a glance as well. :-P |
| 09:59.07 | Charles_Bot | Alright. How much would the air push it around? Are we talking about a loss of accuracy within less than a kilometer, or several hundred kilometers? |
| 09:59.16 | Charles_Bot | Or more o.o |
| 10:01.07 | Ghelae | This would require some proper calculations... as an estimate, we can say it has a mass of 10 kg and is in the atmosphere for 1 minute. The total horizontal distance travelled is F*t^2/2*m, where F is the horizontal force applied, t is the time, and m is the mass. |
| 10:01.37 | Ghelae | So to be a kilometre out would require an average force of2*10000*1000/60^2 |
| 10:01.40 | Ghelae | ~2*10000*1000/60^2 |
| 10:01.40 | infobot | 333335 |
| 10:01.54 | Ghelae | No. |
| 10:01.58 | Ghelae | ~2*10*1000/60^2 |
| 10:01.58 | infobot | 335 |
| 10:02.05 | Ghelae | 335 Newtons. |
| 10:02.20 | Ghelae | Now, I don't know what forces wind typically produces at high altitudes. |
| 10:03.04 | Ghelae | Usually wind "force" is given as wind speed, which isn't too helpful. |
| 10:04.00 | Charles_Bot | Googling it to see if anything comes u |
| 10:04.04 | Charles_Bot | Up* |
| 10:04.11 | Ghelae | In reality, I assume it would spend less time in the atmosphere. 1 km/s is fairly slow for re-entry speeds. Although in that case we also have to alter the mass to get the same kinetic energy. |
| 10:05.24 | Ghelae | Oh, hey, I made a mistake anyway. It would be more like 8 tonnes to get one kiloton impact at 1 km/s. |
| 10:05.45 | Ghelae | So say it gets to 10 km/s; you need 84 kg. |
| 10:05.58 | Ghelae | Then the force to knock it out by 1 km is |
| 10:06.17 | Ghelae | ~2*84*1000/36 |
| 10:06.17 | infobot | 4666.666666666667 |
| 10:06.27 | Ghelae | About 4.6 kN. |
| 10:06.54 | Charles_Bot | And I assume that that can't really be mustered by wind? |
| 10:07.54 | Ghelae | I don't know. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(force) it isn't very much, but I don't know whether wind often does it. |
| 10:08.03 | *** join/#sporewiki Jepardi (591b4d42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.27.77.66) |
| 10:08.06 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 10:08.14 | Ghelae | I'd certainly recommend not dropping a kinetic rod in a hurricane, but if there's a hurricane where you're aiming, you probably don't need to. |
| 10:08.16 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 10:08.47 | Charles_Bot | Olol |
| 10:09.57 | Ghelae | gtg |
| 10:10.13 | Charles_Bot | Thanks so much for your help! |
| 10:17.03 | *** join/#sporewiki Spluff5 (2f483c1b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.72.60.27) |
| 10:19.40 | *** join/#sporewiki Treebeard (52068dfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.6.141.253) |
| 10:19.56 | Spluff5 | I'm thinking about the whole integrating into the Fictionverse process. Is there a detailed page about the tier system, I could only find cursory stuff? |
| 10:20.09 | Spluff5 | Hi Treebeard |
| 10:20.27 | Spluff5 | Thanks for your help earlier |
| 10:21.06 | Charles_Bot | Not everyone uses the tier system, but it's a good reference |
| 10:21.21 | Charles_Bot | Wormy probably has a blog somewhere about it |
| 10:23.52 | Spluff5 | And where would one find this blog? |
| 10:24.03 | Treebeard | Spluff5: You're welcome |
| 10:24.19 | Treebeard | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:192744 |
| 10:25.38 | Spluff5 | Thankyou |
| 10:25.45 | Treebeard | Where do you plan to settle the Perseus Coalition of Worlds? |
| 10:25.56 | Charles_Bot | Spluff5: A good place to start would be picking a galaxy |
| 10:26.21 | Charles_Bot | That should give you a roster of fictions to interact with right off the bat |
| 10:27.23 | Spluff5 | Yeah, I was planning milky way. But I'm really open to changing once I learn more about the established fictions. |
| 10:27.31 | Treebeard | Just in case you haven't found it already, the list of galaxies is here: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/SporeWiki:Fiction_guidelines#Finding_Your_Place |
| 10:28.05 | Charles_Bot | I'd personally recommend the secluded southern regions of the Milky Way, which is where Treebeard's Talven Empire is. He's very active and new as well, so you two could build off of each other |
| 10:28.29 | Charles_Bot | When I joined, I found it easiest to integrate with people that joined at about the same time as me |
| 10:29.02 | Charles_Bot | DrodoEmpire, Tek, GD12, OfficerJackal, we're all of the same generation |
| 10:29.27 | Treebeard | You could also make your location unclear, interacting with intergalactic empires, before settling near the empires that you have interacted with most. |
| 10:30.35 | Spluff5 | All good ideas. |
| 10:31.28 | Spluff5 | Although, My race seems to be about tier 4, seeming much less advanced than most others. what are yours? |
| 10:31.42 | Charles_Bot | N/A, I don't use the tier scale |
| 10:32.00 | Treebeard | 3.2 |
| 10:32.01 | Spluff5 | Level of technology though? |
| 10:33.45 | Charles_Bot | I generally assume that the level of technology (meaning access to it) is roughly the same, given that technology (in the form of equipment, skilled workers, productive capabilities) is widely available on the market to those who can pay for it |
| 10:33.52 | Charles_Bot | What matters is infrastructure |
| 10:34.23 | Spluff5 | With mine being a lot less advanced, I'm wondering if I should set it in "modern times", as a prequel or in its own universe |
| 10:37.55 | Charles_Bot | A lot of people choose to develop their fictions over time |
| 10:38.24 | Treebeard | Spluff5: I was also thinking of creating an ancient empire at some point, so I would be happy to interact with your empire(s) in the past. |
| 10:38.26 | Charles_Bot | Have them grow and evolve naturally through interaction and worldbuilding |
| 10:40.30 | Spluff5 | Yeah, I was planning on that actually. Although, interaction with other species and matching up the timelines might be difficult in the past if I want to do that. |
| 10:40.34 | *** join/#sporewiki Groxkiller98 (520393e3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.3.147.227) |
| 10:40.41 | Groxkiller98 | Heya. |
| 10:41.17 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 10:41.27 | Treebeard | We could also talk with Monet - his Draconid Imperium is quite ancient. |
| 10:41.36 | Groxkiller98 | Hm? |
| 10:42.17 | Treebeard | Groxkiller98: I and Spluff5 are considering the creation of ancient empires. |
| 10:42.28 | Groxkiller98 | Ahh. |
| 10:44.39 | Spluff5 | I've read a bit about the Talven, fitting together during that golden age mentioned, before the Grox attacked might work. |
| 10:45.16 | Groxkiller98 | Before I attacked? :P |
| 10:45.41 | Spluff5 | Heh |
| 10:45.50 | Groxkiller98 | Sorry. Bad joke. |
| 10:45.57 | Treebeard | They didn't encounter any other life at that point - I'd be more free to do this with a 'new' empire. |
| 10:46.29 | Treebeard | I have an idea of how we could also interact with modern empires. |
| 10:47.29 | Groxkiller98 | The Talven and Mithadorn have some basic trade routes. Maybe trade hubs would be a good place to mesh empires together. |
| 10:47.42 | Groxkiller98 | Kinda like space ports such as Vat Tago. |
| 10:47.57 | Treebeard | That's very recent, though. |
| 10:49.13 | Groxkiller98 | True. |
| 10:49.24 | Groxkiller98 | Not even a year of trading has happened yet. |
| 10:49.51 | Groxkiller98 | Or at least in my head, less than a year has. >_> |
| 10:50.43 | Treebeard | Spluff5: We could build up to a war between our fictions, in which they mostly wipe each other out. However, each side could have left behind structures with suspended animation chambers. In recent years, we can have some form of 'awakening', in which these structures become active again. |
| 10:51.35 | Treebeard | We can, of course, continue writing thing before the war, as long as we leave a long period of time for things to happen |
| 10:52.14 | Treebeard | This means that we could be simultaneously writing fiction in modern and ancient times, with the same empires |
| 10:52.29 | Spluff5 | Yeah, this idea could actually be adapted into a lot of things. |
| 10:52.53 | Spluff5 | I have to go now though. Thanks for everything, we will discuss further. |
| 10:52.54 | Groxkiller98 | That sounds like a good way to go about it. |
| 10:54.50 | Groxkiller98 | I finished college yesterday. ^_^ |
| 10:55.47 | Groxkiller98 | Should give me more time to write... But it also means I need a job now. >_> |
| 10:59.33 | *** join/#sporewiki Jepardi (591b4d42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.27.77.66) |
| 10:59.34 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 10:59.39 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 10:59.40 | Groxkiller98 | Heya. |
| 11:03.34 | Groxkiller98 | My favourite forums are down. :| |
| 11:18.33 | Groxkiller98 | How do I change my nick? |
| 11:18.55 | Liquid_Ink | Type: /nick [new nickname] |
| 11:19.16 | Groxkiller|AFK | kk, thanks. |
| 11:31.49 | Groxkiller98 | UK-Russian relations seem to be a bit volatile right now. |
| 11:32.18 | Groxkiller98 | Why did they have a sub in our waters? And do we we need throw soldiers at their boarders for it? |
| 11:33.07 | Groxkiller98 | I might ask Impy for his view on this. He's Russian, no? |
| 11:46.29 | *** join/#sporewiki AdmiralPanda (3a6b1c72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.107.28.114) |
| 11:46.47 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 11:46.52 | Charles_Bot | Lol I've got the answer, not sure Impy knows |
| 11:58.33 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
| 12:19.07 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 12:19.37 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 12:27.54 | *** join/#sporewiki PrimiusIsBack (d1f07820@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.240.120.32) |
| 12:27.55 | PrimiusIsBack | Hi guys |
| 12:27.59 | PrimiusIsBack | It's been long |
| 12:28.00 | PrimiusIsBack | :P |
| 12:28.03 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 12:37.49 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Muray (5a084d6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.8.77.110) |
| 12:38.59 | Charles_Bot | Hey Wormy_ |
| 12:39.43 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 12:41.05 | Charles_Muray | Wormy_ : Ghel and I were discussing kinetic rods as a potential alternative to conventional bombs for strategic bombing, delivered by hyperspatial bombers like the French BS-101 |
| 12:43.03 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (uid149600@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ryfxizehnyjgdqka) |
| 12:43.15 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 12:43.50 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 12:43.54 | Monet | Hi |
| 12:47.44 | Wormy_ | Charles_Muray: Yeah, makes sense. They could be delivered from hyperspace at relativistic speeds |
| 12:49.22 | Wormy_ | They don'teven have to be relativistic I suppose, but SporeWiki tech makes that achievable |
| 12:49.38 | Charles_Muray | That's definitely true, but the idea would be moderate amounts of destruction |
| 12:50.22 | Charles_Muray | i.e., not planet-killing, but capable of targeting industry, logistical, and military facilities with as little collateral damage as possible |
| 12:50.38 | Charles_Muray | France has hyperspatial ballistic missiles to shatter planets |
| 12:51.21 | Charles_Muray | So what that would probably look like is French bombers dropping out of hyperspace and moving into orbit of a planet, dropping their payload into the atmosphere, then returning to base |
| 12:53.39 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy__ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
| 12:57.48 | *** join/#sporewiki PrimIsBack (d1f07820@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.240.120.32) |
| 12:58.28 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
| 12:58.36 | Wormy_ | Depending on the targetting and realspace delivery capabilities of your bombers, they might not even need to drop out of hyperspace |
| 12:59.05 | PrimIsBack | you guys doing the GXS? |
| 12:59.37 | Charles_Muray | GXS is done |
| 12:59.45 | Wormy_ | Not what we're discussing right now, but I'm thinking of getting back into as soion as Da Reckoning is over |
| 12:59.55 | Wormy_ | Caonically its done |
| 13:00.05 | Wormy_ | It just needs writing down |
| 13:01.37 | PrimIsBack | ik |
| 13:01.44 | PrimIsBack | like the stories, battles, etc? |
| 13:01.49 | Wormy_ | yeah |
| 13:04.35 | Wormy_ | One thing I've realise though is that there could be fortifications in hyperspace, composed of ships/drones that could move at near-constant FTL velocities (or inhabit warped "slipstream" spaces" |
| 13:05.40 | Wormy_ | So in Da Reckoning, I had a battle where the Loron at a much higher velocity charged at such a DCP fortification - it caused much destruction on both sides but was enough to breakup the Loron fleet] |
| 13:08.06 | Monet | TAking when in doubt, throw more men at it" to a whole new level. |
| 13:15.21 | Wormy_ | Price of post-scarsity attritional warfare I suppose |
| 13:15.32 | Wormy_ | Between two it can become a slugfest |
| 13:21.42 | Technobliterator | Da Reckoning is over as soon as Imp and Cyrannin moov at this point : | |
| 13:25.43 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:26.51 | Monet | Tis Mr. Zr'Ahgloth's Wild Ride. |
| 13:27.09 | Technobliterator | heh |
| 13:27.10 | Technobliterator | yep |
| 13:27.59 | Monet | Anyway I'm tempted to cave into Windows 10 today. |
| 13:27.59 | Ghel | Hello. |
| 13:28.19 | Monet | Hello |
| 13:28.34 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 13:29.29 | Monet | Really one of the few things stopping me from upgrading has been Win10's reputation regarding security or data collection. |
| 13:32.47 | Monet | That and how it'll restart out of the blue due to an update from Microsoft |
| 13:33.45 | Wormy_ | You can take steps to disable those features |
| 13:33.49 | Monet | I really don't like the idea of setting up an overnight render only to learn that for eight out of those 10 hours I got noen of it done because Microsoft released an OS patch. |
| 13:34.07 | Wormy_ | Also, its wasn't much more than what Microsoft were doing already |
| 13:34.40 | Wormy_ | I haven't had any auto restarts either, one can isable that too |
| 13:34.55 | Monet | Oh good. |
| 13:35.10 | Monet | I guess some of the concern comes from people not realising you could turn them off. |
| 13:35.45 | Wormy_ | The worst that might happen is that old games like Spore will stop working. |
| 13:36.03 | Wormy_ | Some people get Spore to work, others don't |
| 13:36.43 | Monet | That happens with all new OSs |
| 13:37.16 | Wormy_ | I might try a reinstall on Spore |
| 13:37.50 | Monet | Although I don't mind data collection if I'm kept anonymous. |
| 13:39.42 | Monet | Google's one of the most effective search engine in the world because selling non-personal user information is Google's longest-running thing. |
| 13:41.34 | Technobliterator | They've also made it easier over time to delete that information |
| 13:41.50 | Technobliterator | I don't like a lot of the thigns the company does, and I do not like Larry Page for the most part, but I love their products |
| 13:42.53 | Monet | You've got to fund those projects somehow. |
| 13:43.45 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman_ (5affd9f7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.217.247) |
| 13:43.47 | Technobliterator | Conversely, I hate Microsoft products and will never use them, but really respect Bill Gates for his charity work |
| 13:43.48 | Technobliterator | hihi |
| 13:43.48 | Hachiman_ | Hello |
| 13:44.01 | Monet | hi |
| 13:44.06 | Hachiman_ | Apparently my name is already in use somewhere |
| 13:44.44 | Ghel | Hello. |
| 13:46.56 | Monet | Searching "Hachiman" on Steam turns out 892 people. |
| 13:47.06 | Monet | So probably. |
| 13:47.17 | Technobliterator | 8man! |
| 13:50.01 | Monet | One flaw I have with these new Lotto adverts. |
| 13:51.28 | Monet | Why would people like Will Young, Katie Price and Lawrence Llewlyn-Bowen buy lottery tickets when they're all already super-rich? |
| 13:52.18 | Ghel | Why would they be appearing in Lotto adverts if they're already super-rich? |
| 13:52.51 | Monet | Speaking of suer-rich and geting money https://twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/status/751408004864630784 |
| 13:52.53 | Ghel | No, I do actually agree with you there. :P |
| 13:53.47 | Monet | DM calls Alan Sugar a Spiv -> Sugar's lawyer sues -> Sugar donates the £20,000 settlement to Great Ormond Street Hospital. |
| 13:55.22 | Wormy_ | This makes me want to projectile vomit. Not only is it false, its known that teaching kids to hate themselves and feel guilt causes mental illness later in life. This is part of the Left-authoritarian plot to destroy individualism, equality and bring back discrimination and segregation http://nypost.com/2016/07/01/elite-k-8-school-teaches-white-students-theyre-born-racist/ |
| 13:55.30 | *** join/#sporewiki Groxkiller98 (520393e3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.3.147.227) |
| 13:55.34 | Groxkiller98 | Hey guys! |
| 13:55.38 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 13:55.39 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 13:55.48 | Groxkiller98 | I'm thinking of starting another empire. >_> |
| 13:56.00 | Groxkiller98 | This one would be more tribal though. Sorta like wookies. |
| 13:56.48 | Groxkiller98 | Also, I was gonna give them a god. A really detailed one - that doesn't actually exist. |
| 13:56.53 | Ghel | Hello. |
| 13:57.03 | Monet | Wormy_: The same thinking of this school why I don't like the idea of original sin. |
| 13:57.16 | Groxkiller98 | ?? |
| 13:57.42 | Wormy_ | Precisely, this left-authoritrian CULT has the same ideology of being born with sin |
| 13:57.57 | Groxkiller98 | Huh? What have I missed out on? |
| 13:58.22 | Monet | Turned up quite literally a few seconds after Wormy made a post |
| 13:58.39 | Wormy_ | Much of their language and made up behaviours are inclusive to their group and about ignoring criticism from themselves and others |
| 13:58.42 | Groxkiller98 | About? |
| 13:58.50 | Wormy_ | 55] <Wormy_> This makes me want to projectile vomit. Not only is it false, its known that teaching kids to hate themselves and feel guilt causes mental illness later in life. This is part of the Left-authoritarian plot to destroy individualism, equality and bring back discrimination and segregation http://nypost.com/2016/07/01/elite-k-8-school-teaches-white-students-theyre-born-racist/ |
| 13:59.14 | *** join/#sporewiki AdmiralPanda (3a6b1c72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.107.28.114) |
| 13:59.22 | Groxkiller98 | Is this KKK BS? |
| 13:59.43 | Monet | Wrong side |
| 14:00.03 | Groxkiller98 | What? I'm confused. |
| 14:00.09 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:00.21 | Groxkiller98 | Oh. |
| 14:00.37 | Groxkiller98 | I heard the last sniper got killed in a shootout. |
| 14:00.38 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:00.47 | Wormy_ | No its a bunch of stupid leftists who reward children from minority backgrounds with cakes and hugs and tell white kids they are born racist and should feel guilty |
| 14:01.39 | Monet | "Younger children, for instance, feel left out when the âkids of colorâ come back to the main classroom munching on cupcakes they were given in their âaffinity group.â" |
| 14:02.00 | Wormy_ | Essentially the segregated the kids and turned what should be about the personal growth of individual humans into a form of discrimination ad guilt tripping |
| 14:02.11 | Groxkiller98 | Bastards! |
| 14:02.19 | Hachiman_ | People are stupid |
| 14:02.20 | Wormy_ | I call it child abuse |
| 14:02.22 | Hachiman_ | What else is new |
| 14:02.43 | Monet | Oh wait this is the New York Post, not the New York Times. |
| 14:02.56 | Wormy_ | Its well known guilt tripping kids can cause severe depression and other illnesses |
| 14:03.59 | Wormy_ | Maybe its not a story considered worthy enough, or the times is too sissie to show it |
| 14:04.11 | Wormy_ | But it should be |
| 14:04.38 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman_ (5affd9f7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.217.247) |
| 14:04.39 | Hachiman_ | FUCKING |
| 14:04.43 | Hachiman_ | Clicked off the IRC by accident |
| 14:06.33 | Monet | Well I found this http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/opinion/train-teachers-like-doctors.html?_r=0 |
| 14:07.19 | Ghel | I was sorting out some of the cell taxonomy earlier, and I wondered, how should we treat these pages - http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Spore_Official_Game_Guide - ? |
| 14:07.47 | Ghel | They're clearly supposed to be some sort of official creation rather than user-uploaded fiction, although they aren't actually Maxis-made. |
| 14:08.33 | Ghel | So should they still be treated like Maxis creations - put in the mainspace, no taxonomy - or not? |
| 14:09.23 | Monet | Hachiman_: According to the article the school's principal was inspired after her time as a Juror where according to the article, she found a number of defendants were black. |
| 14:09.50 | Monet | the majority actually, while she was serving. |
| 14:10.41 | Hachiman_ | Well they're not Maxis creations |
| 14:10.49 | Hachiman_ | So don't put them in the mainspace |
| 14:11.40 | Groxkiller98 | I'd use the Creature: prefix for them. |
| 14:13.24 | Ghel | The reasoning behind only having Maxis creations in the mainspace is more that user-made content shouldn't be in the mainspace, and this isn't user-made. |
| 14:14.18 | Wormy_ | Yes, I think its part of the official side of Spore, so should be main namespace |
| 14:14.38 | Wormy_ | Like the Beta Spore creations, aren't they in main namespace? |
| 14:15.24 | Ghel | Do you mean http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Historic_creatures ? |
| 14:16.02 | Wormy_ | yeah |
| 14:16.22 | Monet | Wormy: I believe the NYT is a liberal-leaning paper. |
| 14:16.55 | Wormy_ | Thats the problem though, moderate liberals are not critical enough of the far left |
| 14:17.38 | Wormy_ | Thats something I think Conservatives do better, they stand more consistently with their values. |
| 14:19.30 | Wormy_ | Moderate libs are afraid of being labelled racist or sexist by their peers. They also cannot take criticism from any side, Corbynites refuse to admin the Labour party has a problem with antisemitism |
| 14:19.38 | Wormy_ | *admit |
| 14:21.07 | Wormy_ | It works both ways, they can be total hipocrites while habouring racist beliefs of their own |
| 14:21.14 | Monet | Or the tabloids blew the anti-semitism out of proportion. |
| 14:21.23 | Wormy_ | No, it really does exist |
| 14:21.34 | Monet | I get that there is |
| 14:21.57 | Monet | Buuut mass media loves to weave a narrative |
| 14:22.11 | Wormy_ | Sure, but Labour did nothing than deny it |
| 14:22.58 | Monet | I see adverts for the Sun where the advert makes it sounds like a reading of a single issue is like a night of watching prime time TV. |
| 14:23.14 | Wormy_ | I say this and I'm a very liberally-minded person, but I'm disgraced with others who identify as the same |
| 14:24.13 | Technobliterator | ^ |
| 14:24.30 | Wormy_ | I've got into severe arguments with Labour supporters who either think antismitism doesn't exist, isn't a problem, or is a good thing because they hate Israel |
| 14:25.10 | Monet | Wait. |
| 14:25.19 | Technobliterator | I think there are far more problems with the party than just accusations like that |
| 14:25.19 | Wormy_ | They hate Ireal, but I bet they have houses full of cheap goods from much more tyrannical countries |
| 14:25.48 | Technobliterator | that is very likely indeed |
| 14:25.56 | Wormy_ | I'm just exposing the general hypocrisy on the left. |
| 14:26.03 | Monet | Israel's mostly on peopels' shit-lists because of what they're doing with Palestine. |
| 14:26.43 | Monet | Which at the moment is looking very much like the Middle East's answer to Tibet. |
| 14:27.01 | Technobliterator | But sometimes it gets ridiculous. Corbyn makes a speech warning against antisemitism, then he said that it's just as wrong to blame all Jews for the actions of a few in Israel as it is to blame all Muslims for ISIS |
| 14:27.08 | Technobliterator | holy shit guys he compared Isreal to ISIS |
| 14:27.22 | Technobliterator | clearly an antisemite who needs to be removed immediately |
| 14:27.46 | Technobliterator | It's mostly a joke of a party because they're disconnected corporate shills with very few exceptions |
| 14:27.50 | Monet | THat's what I'm thinking now |
| 14:28.08 | Technobliterator | anyway, I won't say anymore, I was supposed to be avoiding this kind of talk and I slipped back into it |
| 14:28.13 | Wormy_ | I don't know if Corbyn is an antisemite or not, but lots of his colleagues and supporters are. THat he refuses to admit |
| 14:28.13 | Monet | Is Labour's anti-semitism towards all Jews or is it mostly aimed at the Israeli government? |
| 14:28.27 | Technobliterator | my anti-authority stance sort of leads me toward it : | |
| 14:28.48 | Wormy_ | Criticism of the Israeli government should not be confused with antisemitism |
| 14:29.37 | *** join/#sporewiki PrimIsBack (d1f07820@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.240.120.32) |
| 14:29.50 | Monet | You said yourself though that mass media is often filled with half-truths. |
| 14:31.07 | Wormy_ | I've got quotes by Labour MPs saying they support Hamas and Hezbollah, groups who throw gay people off buildings and also would do the same to Jews. Whats so great about the Labour supporters who ignore this for their own ideological ends? |
| 14:31.28 | Wormy_ | I mean sure, I'm disgusted with how Palestine is treated, but you don't fix hate with hate |
| 14:31.59 | Technobliterator | It's a problem with the left in general, Wormy, it's the same with the Democrats and how they ignore how scandalous the Clintons and their own party are |
| 14:32.02 | Monet | Tell that to the Internet |
| 14:32.22 | Technobliterator | They just want to sweep it under a rug and not talk about it for some stupid reason |
| 14:32.23 | Technobliterator | I don't like it |
| 14:32.33 | Wormy_ | Its more frightening when its not just the internet, its people entrusted with power in this country |
| 14:35.59 | Monet | Waitwaitwait so these Labour MPs say they support Hamas and Hezbollah. These groups are radical anti-semites yes but they're parties from Palestine and Lebanon respectively |
| 14:36.21 | Monet | Two countries who have a nasty history with Israel. |
| 14:36.41 | PrimIsBack | i exist |
| 14:36.44 | PrimIsBack | ooOOoo |
| 14:37.34 | Monet | It is partially sounding like someone in the press made a link and everyone ran with it. |
| 14:37.35 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (adfc264b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.252.38.75) |
| 14:38.01 | DrodoEmpire | Hi evertone |
| 14:38.09 | Hachiman_ | Hezbollah is eh |
| 14:38.11 | Hachiman_ | Hi |
| 14:38.17 | Monet | Hi |
| 14:38.18 | Monet | As these two groups, while anti-semitic, sound anti-semitic because their countries had a bad history with the world's only Jewish nation. |
| 14:38.21 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 14:38.30 | Wormy_ | Doesn't justify in my opinion |
| 14:38.34 | Wormy_ | *it in |
| 14:38.42 | DrodoEmpire | What's this? |
| 14:38.58 | Wormy_ | Antisemitism in the left |
| 14:39.00 | DrodoEmpire | Ah |
| 14:39.03 | Hachiman_ | They do a good job defending Lebanon and its people and are fighting ISIS and affiliate or related terrorist groups |
| 14:39.23 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah there's quite a bit of that, depending on where you look |
| 14:39.35 | DrodoEmpire | Which is incredibly ironic, but what do you do |
| 14:39.59 | Wormy_ | Here's some leftists who have wokem up to it https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/james-mcash/left-wing-anti-semitism-what-is-it-and-what-is-to-be-done |
| 14:40.05 | Monet | These two groups, while questionable, likely hate all Jews because they're filled with peopel whose lives have been made a nightmare thanks to officials of Jewish descent. |
| 14:40.24 | DrodoEmpire | Which two groups? |
| 14:40.54 | Monet | Hezbollah and Hamas |
| 14:40.58 | DrodoEmpire | Ah |
| 14:41.13 | DrodoEmpire | I think Islam has always had a rather hostile history with the Jews Lo |
| 14:41.14 | DrodoEmpire | *:p |
| 14:41.32 | DrodoEmpire | With the exception of, say, the Ottomans at times and a few Sultans |
| 14:42.10 | AdmiralPanda | literally everyone who has had something to do with Abraham at some point has had something wrong with everyone else who has had something to do with Abraham |
| 14:42.10 | Monet | I think what's happened is Labour MPs have come out saying they support armed action against Israel. It just so happens that the groups they're supporting can't tell the difference between Israeli Jews, Eastern Orthodox Jews or any of the other sects. |
| 14:42.31 | Wormy_ | The thing is though, there's something deeper to question about leftists who single around Jews. There are other countries in recent times that when formed, caused a massive displacement of the original population. But these cases are not talked about |
| 14:43.13 | Monet | What the press has done is they've latched on to these two names and used it in an attempt to run Labour into the dirt. |
| 14:43.42 | Monet | Remember how tabloids like the Sun tried to destroy the image of Ed Miliband during last year's General. |
| 14:43.53 | Wormy_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia |
| 14:44.24 | Wormy_ | If you gonna boycott goods from Israel, why not boycott goods from China, from Saudi Arabia? From Liberia? Double standards |
| 14:44.50 | Hachiman_ | Because Muslims |
| 14:46.20 | Monet | Britain might lose a lot of business if it resorted to boycottin anything made by a nation with questionable human rights reputations. |
| 14:46.50 | Monet | What about India and Bangladesh for instance? |
| 14:47.20 | AdmiralPanda | anybody would lose a lot of business doing that, tbh |
| 14:47.36 | AdmiralPanda | because countries with poor human rights standards tend to be the ones that are better at producing things en masse |
| 14:47.43 | AdmiralPanda | and cheaply |
| 14:47.52 | Monet | Exactly. |
| 14:49.22 | Monet | Boycotting anything made in Saudi Arabia would cause a spike in the price of crude oil. |
| 14:49.41 | Wormy_ | Economically, its a bad tactic to make yes. But that's besides the point that there is a cultural and historical context |
| 14:50.15 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah- I dislike looking at things from a view of pure pragmatism |
| 14:50.36 | Monet | Also consider the cultural issues |
| 14:50.36 | DrodoEmpire | There are matters of principle we have to stand by sometimes |
| 14:51.01 | Wormy_ | There is a lot of calls to boycott not only goods from Irsael, but Israeli universities for example (from academics) |
| 14:51.32 | Monet | We can't expect everyone to one day accept Western moral values. |
| 14:52.24 | Monet | Some stuff is just to odeeply ingrained int othe cultural fabric of another nation. |
| 14:53.37 | Wormy_ | I mean not a lot of people understand the origins of zionism, and origins of Israel. But the problem is leftists putting their agenda on it to suit their ideological purposes. I'm saying thats a double standard, and possibly also a symptom of antisemitism hidden in society |
| 14:55.19 | DrodoEmpire | Monet: I didn't say that, and that doesn't make their cultural practices acceptable |
| 14:55.20 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 14:55.22 | Wormy_ | Thats what we saw with the Labour fallout recently on the issue |
| 14:55.48 | DrodoEmpire | Cultural change has to come from the people themselves anyway, you can't press a culture on a group of people without bad things happening |
| 14:55.51 | Wormy_ | It was a factional battle that distorted the argument and used by both Labour and its enemies. It wasn't just the media this time |
| 14:56.38 | Monet | CUltural change has to come form the people, yes. |
| 14:57.17 | Monet | Cultural change takes time, the inverse to how global finance tends to think. |
| 14:58.00 | Monet | So when the idea of boycotting is suggested, financiers panic that it'll lead to short-term economic harm, which granted it will. |
| 14:58.46 | Monet | The issue is quite often in business it's rare to think past the next fiscal quarter, or the quarter after it. |
| 14:59.27 | Monet | And in politics it's become rare for a politician to plan beyond their present term. |
| 15:00.12 | Monet | That culminates into "sorry, boycotting Saudi oil will be bad for everyone" |
| 15:01.44 | AdmiralPanda | in fairness to the politicians, at least in their case it's entirely possible that if they plan beyond their term, it's entirely possible they'll be halfway through a project before they're out of office and the project closes |
| 15:01.48 | PrimIsBack | Hey, Hachi |
| 15:01.59 | AdmiralPanda | not an excuse, but a reason |
| 15:02.02 | Technobliterator | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8wJc7vHcTs - why can't we have this Trump back? |
| 15:02.11 | Technobliterator | way more reasonable guy |
| 15:02.17 | PrimIsBack | Sorry about all the arguments I had with you Hachi |
| 15:02.39 | Monet | Technobliterator: Because these days, "reasonable" is boring. |
| 15:02.50 | Technobliterator | I believe that he himself knows this |
| 15:03.04 | Technobliterator | and makes deliberately outrageous statements to get attention for his campaign |
| 15:03.33 | Monet | He's run a reality TV empire for at least 20 years now. |
| 15:03.57 | Monet | He knows how to retain attention. |
| 15:04.01 | Groxkiller98 | What if his entire campaign was just supposed to be a prank? |
| 15:04.09 | Groxkiller98 | And it blew out of control? |
| 15:04.35 | DrodoEmpire | That's long since been disproven. :p |
| 15:04.40 | Groxkiller98 | Also; Didn't someone try kill him? |
| 15:04.47 | DrodoEmpire | Yes |
| 15:04.56 | DrodoEmpire | There was an attempted assassination that failed miserably |
| 15:05.00 | PrimIsBack | damn good o3o |
| 15:05.09 | PrimIsBack | even if it did fail |
| 15:05.14 | Groxkiller98 | Thought so. Honestly, I'm not surprised... |
| 15:05.14 | DrodoEmpire | No, not good- why would you wish death and political violence on someone? |
| 15:05.25 | DrodoEmpire | Are you that horrid of a human being? |
| 15:05.26 | DrodoEmpire | :L |
| 15:05.29 | Technobliterator | ^ |
| 15:05.30 | PrimIsBack | he is @drodo |
| 15:05.34 | Technobliterator | So? |
| 15:05.41 | DrodoEmpire | No, it doesn't matter who it is |
| 15:05.44 | Technobliterator | Would you support it if it was an attempt to assassinate Obama? |
| 15:05.44 | DrodoEmpire | Its the principle |
| 15:05.52 | PrimIsBack | no @tech |
| 15:05.56 | PrimIsBack | he's a cool guy |
| 15:05.59 | Groxkiller98 | Don't go there. |
| 15:05.59 | Technobliterator | So why support it because it's Trump? |
| 15:06.06 | DrodoEmpire | You have no principles if you think killing one person is good and another bad |
| 15:06.08 | Groxkiller98 | Just don't support murder. |
| 15:06.10 | Technobliterator | This is just an insane double standard |
| 15:06.21 | Technobliterator | "It's ok to kill him as long as I don't like him" |
| 15:06.23 | DrodoEmpire | Murder and political violence is *wrong* |
| 15:06.39 | PrimIsBack | well |
| 15:06.41 | PrimIsBack | not good |
| 15:06.48 | PrimIsBack | but still |
| 15:06.52 | DrodoEmpire | But still what? |
| 15:07.02 | DrodoEmpire | How are you going to justify your morally-bankrupt position? |
| 15:07.05 | PrimIsBack | (that was the end of my post) |
| 15:07.06 | Wormy_ | Murdering a personn because you don't agree with them is infantile and wicked |
| 15:07.19 | Technobliterator | Look, you may think his rhetoric is divisive and toxic, and that he has demonstrated on multiple occasions to lack the credentials to be a good President, and I would agree with you, but his sole crime thus far has been "he said mean things". That doesn't warrant murder at all. |
| 15:07.27 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 15:07.35 | Groxkiller98 | ^ |
| 15:07.40 | PrimIsBack | Can we just *breath out* |
| 15:07.47 | PrimIsBack | drop the topic? |
| 15:07.49 | Groxkiller98 | I hope he loses. I don't hope he gets murdered. |
| 15:07.57 | PrimIsBack | gtg |
| 15:07.58 | PrimIsBack | bbl |
| 15:08.01 | DrodoEmpire | I like him because he's a bit wild and antiestablishment- but I wouldn't want him president. I definitely don't want him murdered |
| 15:08.13 | DrodoEmpire | Right, run away then from your shitty moral position |
| 15:08.16 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 15:08.20 | PrimIsBack | hey |
| 15:08.23 | PrimIsBack | i seriously gtg |
| 15:08.33 | DrodoEmpire | Then go! Nobody's stopping you |
| 15:08.33 | Groxkiller98 | Drodo, don't be mean. |
| 15:08.36 | Monet | As divisive as Donald Trump is being, what he might be inadvertently doing is setting himself up that he's going to struggle eve nif he does get a Republican majority in Congress. |
| 15:08.38 | PrimIsBack | now you're just insulting |
| 15:08.51 | PrimIsBack | @drodo |
| 15:08.53 | PrimIsBack | not i go |
| 15:08.56 | PrimIsBack | now* |
| 15:08.59 | PrimIsBack | o/ |
| 15:09.15 | DrodoEmpire | Groxkiller98: I didn't call him shitty, only his position on political violence |
| 15:09.25 | Groxkiller98 | I know. |
| 15:09.42 | Groxkiller98 | But the way you worded it could have been less insulting. |
| 15:10.01 | Technobliterator | There are some issues on which I think Trump has the right stance, notably trade agreements and anything in international foreign policy that isn't his godawful stance on torture |
| 15:10.03 | DrodoEmpire | Maybe, but I like to be frank |
| 15:10.21 | Technobliterator | But for the most part, no, he does not strike me as a good potential president |
| 15:10.41 | AdmiralPanda | there's a difference between frank and insulting, especially down under |
| 15:10.50 | Technobliterator | He is, however, an excellent campaigner, since literally everyone on the planet knows who he is |
| 15:10.57 | Hachiman_ | Who's Frank |
| 15:11.02 | DrodoEmpire | Then call me insulting, AdmiralPanda |
| 15:11.06 | Technobliterator | and he's been winning so far |
| 15:11.30 | AdmiralPanda | I just did, anyway back to private channels |
| 15:11.41 | Monet | One thing that I think Trump is definitely revealing is how much of a beauty pageant the American electoral process is. |
| 15:11.51 | Technobliterator | haha yeah |
| 15:11.53 | Wormy_ | "beauty" |
| 15:12.12 | Wormy_ | I'd hardly call them beautiful :P |
| 15:12.17 | AdmiralPanda | Monet: Whereas in Australia it's literally a "who do we hate the least," cos parties only ever get elected by preference nowadays |
| 15:12.22 | Monet | Wormy_: How about vain? |
| 15:12.28 | Technobliterator | I feel bad for how the country is now forced to select between two people that the vast majority of them really do not want |
| 15:12.45 | DrodoEmpire | The democratic system in the US isn't very functional |
| 15:13.34 | Technobliterator | I fully admit it might've been the same even if my guy had won, I know Sanders has high favorable ratings, but I don't doubt there are a lot of people who just want things to stay as they are or who just don't want him as their candidate |
| 15:13.42 | Monet | Technobliterator: That's what I find funny, the American population have technically screwed themselves. |
| 15:14.10 | Technobliterator | Well, partly, it was also an oversight on the part of the founding fathers |
| 15:14.30 | Technobliterator | for setting up a system electing a president that really only works for two different parties |
| 15:14.57 | AdmiralPanda | especially since the founding fathers also advised that political parties are a shitty idea to start with :P |
| 15:15.35 | Technobliterator | Yup |
| 15:15.54 | Monet | America was something of an experiment i nthe time of the founding fathers. |
| 15:15.55 | Technobliterator | It's so funny though how no president has even been an independent since literally the first one |
| 15:16.09 | Technobliterator | yeah, they at the time were pretty revolutionary |
| 15:17.12 | Monet | The idea of a leader chosen by the people, and not divine right or having hereditary eligibility, something that hadn't been seen on a large scale since the Roman Republic. |
| 15:17.52 | Monet | And that thing ended up as rather stagnant by the time Gaius Julius declared himself dictator for life. |
| 15:20.25 | Monet | The founding fathers would also be completely floored at the scale of the American government |
| 15:22.56 | Wormy_ | Another English person won the last stage in le Tour de France, seems to be the only sport Brits dominate in |
| 15:23.08 | Wormy_ | *latest |
| 15:23.43 | Monet | We usually do fairly well i nthe olympics don't we? |
| 15:23.48 | Wormy_ | Thats true |
| 15:24.21 | Monet | So we suck at cricket, tennis (although I think that's changing thnks to Andy Murray) and football |
| 15:25.36 | Wormy_ | In recent years we've had Bradley Wiggins winning le Tour, Chris Froome winning twice (though he was born in South Africa), Mark Cavendish has done really well on the sprints, winning 3 stages this year. And today Steven Cummings bagged one |
| 15:25.47 | Monet | Reger Federer is not human. He is a Terminator sent from the future |
| 15:26.49 | Monet | And looking at the current Wimbledon tournament, we coudl be lookign at Murray vs Federer |
| 15:27.07 | Wormy_ | Cavendish is just so fast, nobody seems to be able to catch him |
| 15:29.34 | Wormy_ | 29 stage wins in total |
| 15:30.17 | Wormy_ | Monet: the human missile at work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKznFKELdVk |
| 15:31.44 | Wormy_ | Actually his is Manx |
| 15:34.04 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (b01b2759@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.27.39.89) |
| 15:34.08 | Xho | AAAAAAAA |
| 15:35.14 | Monet | Hi :> |
| 15:35.33 | Wormy_ | An inflatable stand collapsed on the pelloton today lol |
| 15:36.15 | Xho | Oh god this is confusing |
| 15:36.29 | Xho | I've been away from the computer for so long my motor skills are warped |
| 15:37.00 | Wormy_ | Better get Scotty to fix your warp engines. |
| 15:38.49 | Xho | Technobliterator: Cruises aren't for me thnx kk bye |
| 15:38.56 | Technobliterator | wut |
| 15:38.58 | Technobliterator | Cruises are the best |
| 15:39.20 | Xho | The concept of going to locations are all well and good |
| 15:39.25 | Xho | The ship itself? NOOOOOOOOOOH |
| 15:39.41 | Technobliterator | I loved being on the ship |
| 15:40.15 | Monet | Being o nthe boat means talking ot people or engaging in public activities though |
| 15:40.22 | Monet | ship* |
| 15:40.24 | Xho | aye |
| 15:40.34 | Xho | They're not the normal demographic I generally socialise with anyway |
| 15:40.47 | Technobliterator | Fair enough |
| 15:41.40 | Monet | Anyway my fridge is empty. |
| 15:41.48 | Monet | bbl after I've bought some food |
| 15:43.54 | Xho | I'll probably write up an entire journal entry on DA on the whole thing |
| 15:44.11 | Xho | Though my memory of it is already rough |
| 15:44.20 | Xho | I can say however that yesterday was ABNORMALLY HOT |
| 15:44.29 | Xho | It was hotter than Athens, and Athens was 36 C |
| 15:44.42 | Wormy_ | it was just wet in the North |
| 15:49.27 | Xho | I GO AWAY FOR NINE DAYS AND WESTERN CIVILISATION HAS ALL BUT COLLAPSED |
| 15:49.33 | Xho | dafuq has happened |
| 15:49.57 | AdmiralPanda | humanity happened |
| 15:50.35 | Wormy_ | All but collapsed? |
| 15:50.52 | Wormy_ | Better get out from under my rock |
| 15:51.07 | Xho | I am exaggerating but it hasn't been a smooth week by the looks of it |
| 15:51.30 | Wormy_ | You mean the police shootings, and then cop killings in the US? |
| 15:52.29 | Xho | Among other things yes |
| 15:52.51 | Wormy_ | What were the other things? |
| 15:53.02 | Xho | Well the Tory leadership debate |
| 15:53.41 | Wormy_ | Ah |
| 15:54.36 | Xho | I'm getting post ship dizziness at the moment |
| 15:58.38 | Xho | Hachiman_: https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13627168_10154233362897978_4612721070024376805_n.png?oh=ed3323b5cc9df5a443f99b41295d3dfa&oe=57F820A0 tfw your father throws you into a volcano |
| 15:59.17 | Hachiman_ | olol |
| 16:05.11 | Xho | So anything happened on the wiki since I last frequented it |
| 16:06.28 | DrodoEmpire | I updated this more - http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction%3ADrodo_Empire/Equipment_Inventory |
| 16:06.33 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 16:07.15 | DrodoEmpire | Nowhere near done though, still got starships, aircraft, body armour and whatnot to add |
| 16:07.19 | Xho | Is that intended to be their-- right |
| 16:07.36 | Xho | I was gonna ask whether that's their intended complete inventory or inventory that's marketable |
| 16:07.46 | DrodoEmpire | More or less complete |
| 16:08.06 | DrodoEmpire | I'll add what's marketable to the Arms Market later |
| 16:08.19 | Technobliterator | Xho, there's this: http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/Ottzello_Revolution |
| 16:08.23 | Technobliterator | uh wat |
| 16:08.29 | Technobliterator | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Ottzello_Revolution |
| 16:09.28 | Xho | Well that went quick |
| 16:10.44 | Technobliterator | It did |
| 16:11.57 | Xho | Well it's a well written page so 10/10 for Jo |
| 16:12.08 | Technobliterator | \o/ |
| 16:13.37 | Xho | I've been thinking that I might rehash the Kicathian language all over |
| 16:13.58 | Xho | As my first conlang for the wiki it needs a bit of chopping back |
| 16:14.31 | Xho | General principle of the language is going to be the same but I'm just going to make it look prettier |
| 16:26.50 | Ghelaway | Super-collab people: I've assessed how common intelligent life should be in the setting on the titanpad. I currently reckon we could easily get seven sapient species in a sphere of less than 1500 ly radius. |
| 16:27.29 | DrodoEmpire | Right. |
| 16:27.52 | DrodoEmpire | Well, I hate to sorta say this, but I had an idea that might take up one of those spots >.< |
| 16:27.58 | DrodoEmpire | If there |
| 16:28.04 | DrodoEmpire | *there's only seven |
| 16:28.21 | Ghelaway | There's not necessarily only seven. |
| 16:28.32 | DrodoEmpire | Right, right |
| 16:28.35 | DrodoEmpire | That's a minimum |
| 16:28.47 | DrodoEmpire | *minimum-ish |
| 16:29.35 | Ghelaway | My thinking is just, we can get an average distance between sapient species, and then with space being 3D, starting from the first species' homeworld we might find one species at around that distance in each of six directions. |
| 16:29.58 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 16:30.19 | Ghelaway | A lower minimum distance - but about as high an estimate as you can get for the density of sapient species - is about 93 ly. So we'd easily fit 7 within 200 ly. |
| 16:31.45 | Ghelaway | That one's assuming red dwarf systems are perfectly habitable and we can make contact with species comparable to mid-Pleistocene humans. |
| 16:33.25 | Ghelaway | The other one assumes red dwarfs aren't habitable and we can only count species that have reached the Bronze Age or equivalent. |
| 16:33.33 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 16:34.58 | Ghelaway | Basically, I was calculating how incredibly rare aliens should be and suprised myself by discovering how common they could be. :P |
| 16:35.10 | DrodoEmpire | Huh, nice |
| 16:35.52 | *** join/#sporewiki Quark8 (49c685a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.198.133.167) |
| 16:35.55 | Quark8 | Hello. |
| 16:36.00 | Ghelaway | Hello. |
| 16:36.14 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 16:38.17 | Ghelaway | It is still trying to get as many species as possible, so it assumes that pretty much every system with habitable planets has reached at least Cambrian levels of complex life. But even if I loosened that assumption we'd still find aliens to be fairly common. |
| 16:42.34 | Ghelaway | Yeah, worked it out. Using a different approximation makes complex life 20 times less common, to an average of 3100 ly between sapient species. |
| 16:48.04 | Ghelaway | But that's about as thick as the relevant part of a typical spiral galaxy's disc, so we'd be going for a square arrangement: 5 species within 3500 ly, and then another 8 within 7000 ly, etc. |
| 16:48.37 | Ghelaway | I assume we won't be going for that one anyway. |
| 16:54.00 | Xho | Well new Kicathian sound chart is even bigger than the last one |
| 16:54.11 | DrodoEmpire | Ghelaway: Alright, cool |
| 16:55.00 | Xho | Since I've now put down that the Kicath distinguish between aspirated and non aspirated sounds in their language it adds on to the count |
| 16:55.21 | Xho | Probably looking at least 350 total characters in their language now |
| 16:55.42 | Quark8 | Xho: Is there an aspiration distinction for all sounds? |
| 17:15.13 | Xho | Quark8: Only specific sounds are aspirated, for example there are distinctions for ra and rÊ°a |
| 17:15.45 | Xho | And then the alternate vowel sounds also manipulate the specific sound |
| 17:16.20 | Xho | All reflected in the writing as well so their writing system does make use of diacritics of some variety |
| 17:17.36 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Bot (uid94017@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abnffadyqrqskknm) |
| 17:29.47 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 17:29.53 | Monet | Hello |
| 17:30.01 | Xho | wb |
| 17:30.19 | Xho | Monet: I'm rehashing the Kicathian language and unfortunately it's even more complex now |
| 17:30.39 | Monet | Oh lovely |
| 17:32.07 | Monet | Wormy_: I've identified another error with the BBT apartment |
| 17:32.53 | Monet | according to Penny there might be a window near Sheldon's desk |
| 17:40.20 | Xho | ya killed him |
| 17:40.24 | Monet | Sheldon and Leonard's apartment is officially the second most convoluted layout in media history |
| 17:40.55 | Monet | Or the second strangest building |
| 17:42.50 | Monet | Nothing I can think of short of eldritch influence will match the Overlook Hotel from the Shining |
| 17:44.54 | *** join/#sporewiki Treebeard (52068dfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.6.141.253) |
| 17:45.01 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 17:45.09 | Monet | Hello |
| 17:48.15 | Xho | So now the overall count of Kicathian characters have been revamped from 344 to 528 |
| 17:48.24 | Xho | That's just the regular characters |
| 17:49.07 | Xho | Irregular characters add another 165 on top so that comes to a total of 694 characters |
| 17:50.59 | Xho | Charles_Bot Monet: You guys got an idea for a name for some standardisation organisation that Andromeda or the Xonexi Allies use for clarifying alien languages |
| 17:51.43 | Xho | If not I'll make a name myself |
| 17:52.30 | Monet | "International Board For Inter-Linguistic Communication"? |
| 17:52.48 | Xho | That'll do |
| 17:56.24 | Monet | Now I wonder how easily this new Kicathian might mix with Dean'va |
| 17:56.32 | Treebeard | Xho: When writing my fantasy-universe fiction, I'll need to ask a lot of questions regarding the Simulcra. Who else can I talk to so that I don't take up a lot of your time with these questions? |
| 17:56.54 | Monet | Dran'va* |
| 17:56.59 | Xho | Oluap, Hachi, Ghelae and Imperios |
| 17:57.08 | Xho | And Jepardi as well |
| 17:57.28 | Treebeard | Alright, thanks |
| 17:59.35 | Xho | Kicathian is having a full vocabulary and grammar revamp as well so the Kicathian for 'Kicathian Language' has changed from 'kisÃat samnatakin' to 'samnátahxÄ«nnÊ°ÄvÊ°on kisÃatÄvÊ°on' |
| 17:59.49 | Xho | Basically Kicathian now has cases because screw my head |
| 18:00.52 | Monet | Draconis - you guys do this to torture yourselves don't you |
| 18:01.32 | Xho | Kicath - CLASSIFY EVERYTHING, INCLUDING OUR LANGUAGE |
| 18:02.12 | Monet | Draconis - U need help |
| 18:02.15 | Xho | Well the language reflects their psychology, overtly analytical and stratified so that everything has a unique meaning |
| 18:05.50 | Monet | Does that mean they crash when they can't work out a new word for something? |
| 18:06.59 | Xho | kicath.exe has stopped working |
| 18:07.16 | Xho | The horrors of Kicathian agglutination comes into play there |
| 18:08.17 | Xho | They either adopt the name of something from the native language of which it was originally named or if it is an entirely new concept then the name generally tends to be an entire definition for it |
| 18:08.26 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (uid149600@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-upqnpdunvhjhxdxg) |
| 18:09.53 | Tek0516 | Hello |
| 18:10.35 | Xho | And then over time the overly long definition of the word becomes further condensed, due to the extremities of inflection in the Kicathian language there's an exponentially low chance the word would be homonymic |
| 18:10.40 | Xho | Hi |
| 18:12.05 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 18:12.19 | Monet | Will they have their own names for other aliens or will they use a Kicathian approximation of the established name? |
| 18:12.50 | Monet | Also Murray's in the Wimbledon finals now |
| 18:12.53 | Xho | 99.9% of the time there are approximations |
| 18:13.03 | Xho | nngh murray |
| 18:13.13 | Treebeard | Charles? What are you doing? |
| 18:13.15 | Xho | The Terminator has more of a personality than he does |
| 18:13.56 | Monet | speaking of which I think he'll be against Federer |
| 18:14.13 | Xho | Back to the Kicathian language, because of the level of Kicathian inflections (there's 696 individual sounds to choose from) approximations are generally quite accurate to the native pronunciation |
| 18:15.52 | Xho | The Kicath don't normally have synonyms for words on that basis except for their loan words |
| 18:16.13 | Xho | Most notably the names of galaxies |
| 18:17.09 | Monet | That certainly makes their linguistic skills highly valuable |
| 18:17.22 | Xho | Instead of saying 'Andromeda' or some near equivalent in Kicathian they more commonly say 'Ãntauronunno' |
| 18:17.49 | Xho | Although the system the Kicath have allows for 'Andromeda' to be pronounced somewhat similarly to English |
| 18:18.47 | Treebeard | Do the Kicath give particular titles to foreigners? |
| 18:19.05 | Xho | If you're talking about honorifics that's another topic |
| 18:19.26 | Xho | The Kicath are quite impersonal as a species and their impersonal tone in their language is actually their formal tone |
| 18:19.53 | Xho | In fiction the Kicath commonly refer to individuals by their species name and that's actually their formal speech |
| 18:20.51 | Xho | If they refer to someone by their actual name that generally implies they're being casual and in some cases aggressive |
| 18:21.03 | Treebeard | Ah |
| 18:21.12 | Xho | So the Kicath have a rather extensive list of honorific titles in their own language to give to other Kicath |
| 18:21.41 | Xho | Generally only family name their own members by their given name |
| 18:21.52 | Monet | So among kicath being called 'human' isn't rude |
| 18:21.58 | Xho | Nope |
| 18:22.31 | Xho | The Kicath also add all manners of prefixes and suffixes on to almost any word to alter the gravity of the word |
| 18:22.54 | Xho | The most common one in fiction is the -aà suffix which alters the entire meaning of whatever it is put onto to be highly aggressive |
| 18:23.33 | Xho | If a Kicath speaks to someone using that particular suffix it's generally an act of violence in a verbal manner |
| 18:24.15 | Xho | Speaking formally however doesn't require any of these additions so someone learning Kicathian would generally disregard them |
| 18:24.30 | Xho | Speaking informally to a Kicath isn't particularly clever |
| 18:24.54 | Monet | Reminds me of how if they're being insulting, Eldar in 40K refer to humans as "Mon'kaigh" |
| 18:25.50 | Xho | If the Kicath use racial slurs then that's when their agglutination device comes into play; if they wanted to call a human a monkey they couldn't just say 'monkey' to them |
| 18:26.11 | Xho | The word they use would literally be translated as 'humanmonkey' or 'monkeyhuman' depending on one's preference |
| 18:26.25 | Xho | And then add a prefix or suffix to determine it as an insult |
| 18:27.24 | Xho | Because the Kicathian language is that strict, calling a human 'monkey' is gibberish to a Kicath, the word 'human' acts almost like a determinative so that the slur has some substance to it |
| 18:27.42 | Monet | I had wondered about collecting insults and slurs in the 1st gig but I worry things might sour real fast |
| 18:28.05 | Xho | heh |
| 18:28.13 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
| 18:28.56 | Monet | I've seen Draconis get called"fat salamanders" |
| 18:29.05 | Charles_Bot | International Language Institute |
| 18:29.17 | Xho | Most Kicath generally don't use insults unless they want to be specific but if they want to pass an insult it's usually something in the collective case and often translated as the c word |
| 18:30.05 | Xho | And then they plant whatever they're referring to into the same word, so usually they insult an entire species even if it is intended for one individual because the Kicath are mostly assholes |
| 18:30.58 | Monet | The c word works if they're egg-laying reptiles |
| 18:31.31 | Xho | cloaca |
| 18:31.39 | Monet | It might be a different c word sure |
| 18:32.11 | Xho | Because of the general nature of the Kicathian language most of their indigenous words have no translation into English |
| 18:32.11 | Monet | but I bet the impact remains |
| 18:32.22 | Xho | More or less |
| 18:32.37 | Xho | The Kicath use those suffixes to alter the severity |
| 18:33.03 | Xho | So to be ridiculously complicated the Kicath can use the word 'nice' with varying degrees of meaning |
| 18:33.23 | Xho | Can go from a manner of worshipping to a manner of almost stupid aggression |
| 18:34.01 | Monet | Like good becoming ungood? |
| 18:34.09 | Xho | Hard to say |
| 18:34.26 | Xho | If the Kicath used the most offensive tone whilst using that word then it doesn't equate in English |
| 18:34.28 | Monet | Probably a vague example |
| 18:34.49 | Xho | It would be like vehement sarcasm intended to wound someone though using a word that normally doesn't equate to that |
| 18:35.20 | Monet | I think I'm getting it |
| 18:35.20 | Xho | Because of the moods and tones in Kicathian most adjectives inadvertently become synonymous |
| 18:35.46 | Xho | Although to the Kicath no word is synonymous to another, all words in Kicathian have their own categories |
| 18:37.33 | Xho | So on top of grammatical gender, grammatical number, tenses, cases the Kicath also have extremely diverse honorifics which influence all of the above |
| 18:38.06 | Xho | Not to mention the insanely complicated writing systems |
| 18:38.22 | Xho | One can see why the Kicath learn other languages rather than the other way around |
| 18:38.24 | Monet | They must have highly complex brains |
| 18:38.54 | Xho | It's also a cultural custom by the Kicath, they consider it polite to be able to speak a language of another culture |
| 18:40.43 | Xho | It's definitely not the hardest language in the Gigaquadrant but it's probably the most complicated in correlation to the number of speakers |
| 18:41.35 | Xho | After all the rules of the language are learnt then Kicathian follows the system throughout; there are no irregularities in Kicathian |
| 18:41.38 | Monet | I might ditch the idea of Draconis cringing at aliens learning High Dracid |
| 18:43.03 | Xho | Well, I could imagine there are a number of foreign speakers of Kicathian |
| 18:43.46 | Xho | Enough to have a galactic standardisation body to classify it |
| 18:43.55 | Monet | They have 10 vowels but while Draconis express five with flanging aliens could change volume |
| 18:45.22 | Xho | Kicath - dat language hto |
| 18:45.25 | Xho | tho* |
| 18:47.14 | Xho | In terms of the moods and honorifics in Kicathian, the best way to gather the diversity of it is to classify every emotion and mood and then subcategorise it into levels of severity, and then that's how many different tones there are in the language |
| 18:48.18 | Xho | Because the Kicath are effectively emotionless their emotions are conveyed through their spoken language |
| 18:48.39 | Xho | So in a way it is necessary to learn the tones of the language in order to convey emotion |
| 18:48.40 | *** join/#sporewiki AdmiralPanda (3a6b1c72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.107.28.114) |
| 18:48.45 | AdmiralPanda | hi all |
| 18:48.48 | Xho | Hi |
| 18:49.39 | AdmiralPanda | I still find it funny people think Hearthstone is a well designed game |
| 18:49.53 | Xho | I don't see the attraction of it |
| 18:50.32 | AdmiralPanda | it's a good casual game, and that's about it |
| 18:50.56 | AdmiralPanda | I play it from time to time as a joke around thing with a couple of friends, but every time I do the inherent design flaws glare like neon |
| 18:51.02 | Monet | Blizzard aren't known for shoddy craftsmanship with their games |
| 18:51.02 | Hachiman_ | inb4 people think tcgs are well-designed games in general |
| 18:51.38 | Xho | I'm trying to gauge how many logographic symbols there are in Kicathian now in order to distinguish everything |
| 18:51.43 | AdmiralPanda | TCGs as a genre are pretty well designed, Hearthstone is not |
| 18:51.59 | Xho | That's probably impossible to tell, I might be able to estimate it |
| 18:52.21 | AdmiralPanda | basically, the only decks that are consistently successful are ones based around low-resource cards and buffs that make those cards then vastly more effective than they should be, most of which belong to one class |
| 18:53.10 | Hachiman_ | I've heard MTG has its fair share of problems |
| 18:53.19 | Hachiman_ | Mostly that it's not veteran-friendly |
| 18:54.00 | Xho | 484,416 at the very least I think |
| 18:55.25 | Xho | Ah screw it I'll just say virtually infiniet |
| 18:55.26 | Xho | infinite |
| 18:56.19 | Xho | I mean there's probably about 10,000 - 15,000 in common use but as a language there's a potentially endless combination |
| 18:57.37 | AdmiralPanda | it's not exactly veteran friendly because there are so many series of cards that they have to restrict which series can be played in competitive |
| 18:57.53 | Xho | Distinctively combining all the abugida characters together gives only hypothetical numbers, it would be easy enough to identify if one knew all 696 of them separately |
| 18:57.58 | AdmiralPanda | but the core game design is very solid from what I've seen |
| 18:58.16 | Xho | But distinctive combinations of 696 separate characters is a massive number that I can't really work out |
| 19:00.58 | Monet | Won't you need to design all those characters/ |
| 19:01.27 | Xho | Not necessarily |
| 19:01.39 | Xho | I'd need to design a character for each consonant |
| 19:02.00 | Xho | The vowels are determined by adding on marks to the consonant |
| 19:02.24 | Xho | I could give one example and leave it because all of the characters are like that |
| 19:03.06 | Xho | The logographic script is impossible to complete |
| 19:03.58 | Xho | Mainly because I can't really validate what the minimum number of characters are until I have all of the grammar figured out |
| 19:07.16 | Monet | Good luck |
| 19:07.24 | Xho | I need it |
| 19:08.08 | Xho | Because of the complexity of the language you can have compound tones so it is effectively an endless set of grammar and writing |
| 19:08.59 | Xho | With all of the grammatical additions you can have, you can add a number of them on to one word and it can translate into a complicated sentence |
| 19:09.35 | Xho | Although that is considered a very articulate way of doing it by the Kicath and not even they tend to do that normally |
| 19:10.33 | Xho | It's a very strict language although there are varying and optional degrees of complexity for it so it can become complex to the point where even translators wouldn't pick it up |
| 19:11.02 | Xho | Depending on technological advancement of course |
| 19:12.14 | Xho | If the translators are well tuned enough to pick up on the language's determinative speech then it could translate Kicathian at the most complicated level, although at that point it's probably due to the fact that the Kicath is cryptically hiding something that might incriminate them |
| 19:14.27 | drom | Wormy_: Did you say something to me before I went AFK last night? :o |
| 19:18.10 | Wormy_ | Can't remember, I remember saying something to you about my run |
| 19:18.23 | Treebeard | Xho: What is the longest passage that you have written in Kicathian? |
| 19:18.32 | Wormy_ | After that, I started getting drunk, so I might have said somethiing dumb |
| 19:18.39 | Wormy_ | and can't remember |
| 19:18.55 | Xho | Well, anything I have written in Kicathian in the past is now not that accurate as the language is being redone |
| 19:19.07 | Xho | Although there are some things on the dictionary page which are quite long |
| 19:19.25 | Treebeard | Okay |
| 19:31.59 | drom | Wormy_: Alright cool. |
| 19:33.27 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (6d1aff04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.26.255.4) |
| 19:34.14 | Monet | Hi |
| 19:34.54 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 19:35.59 | Charles_Murray | Hey |
| 19:36.02 | *** join/#sporewiki Groxkiller98 (520393e3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.3.147.227) |
| 19:36.06 | Groxkiller98 | Hey. |
| 19:36.07 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 19:40.53 | Xho | MonetL http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:Kicath/Kicathian_Language Prepare |
| 19:41.26 | Xho | Monet: ^ |
| 19:41.55 | Monet | Will check |
| 19:48.19 | Monet | I have no idea how to pronounce "kicath language" |
| 19:48.24 | *** join/#sporewiki Spluff5 (2f483c1b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.72.60.27) |
| 19:49.10 | Spluff5 | Treebeard: You want to put your empire in the southern part of the galaxy right? |
| 19:49.13 | Xho | I'll provide a phonology chart later |
| 19:49.40 | Treebeard | Spluff5: Yes |
| 19:49.57 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet_2 (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 19:50.00 | Monet_2 | Good. |
| 19:50.33 | Treebeard | Spluff5: Did you see the message that I posted on your message wall? |
| 19:50.53 | Spluff5 | Yeas, I'm adding to it now |
| 19:55.12 | Spluff5 | What do you think of my empire so far? |
| 20:04.40 | *** join/#sporewiki Tybusen (18783eb3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.120.62.179) |
| 20:05.42 | Monet_2 | Hey Ty |
| 20:05.54 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 20:05.55 | Tybusen | Hello |
| 20:06.43 | Spluff5 | Hi |
| 20:13.06 | Spluff5 | When youguys are writing th history of an empire, do you refer to Tribal stage and Civilization stage? |
| 20:14.35 | Tybusen | Spluff5: You can, though I think nowadays most of us avoid referring to it as "Tribal Stage" or "Civ Stage" |
| 20:14.56 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 20:15.20 | DrodoEmpire | Its a really really bad way of recording and analysing history, especially since an entire species doesn't go through the same "stages of development" at the same time |
| 20:15.42 | DrodoEmpire | I use measurements and "stages" and narratives closer to real life |
| 20:15.50 | Tybusen | And since Tribal and Civ are both pre-Space periods, it will also largely depend on how important your empire's pre-Space history is to their current status |
| 20:15.51 | DrodoEmpire | In terms of style |
| 20:15.59 | DrodoEmpire | I |
| 20:16.07 | Treebeard | Spore seems to be generally regarded as more of a tool to design things than a foundation for the fiction universe. |
| 20:16.11 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 20:16.35 | Tybusen | Spore itself is not a very good model for the evolution of a species and culture |
| 20:16.40 | DrodoEmpire | ^^^^ |
| 20:16.46 | Monet_2 | It's *very* abstract |
| 20:17.06 | Tybusen | Most species didn't evolve by dancing for other species |
| 20:17.25 | DrodoEmpire | *I'm really unsure as to what the equivalents to a tribal and civ stage would be really- really when looking at history the three biggest things early on you should nail down is the emergence of the species itself, its discovery of food production (and where), and the advent of writing (and where) |
| 20:17.41 | DrodoEmpire | And the fact that these things can emerge in several areas at different times |
| 20:18.22 | Tybusen | Well, at the very least, if you're going to heavily base an empire's early history on the Tribal Stage, then Tribal civs have domesticated animals and permanent settlements, at the very least |
| 20:18.43 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 20:18.43 | Tybusen | As well as fire and basic tools like axes |
| 20:19.01 | DrodoEmpire | Well, I dislike the tribal stage as its probably the game's most heinous abstraction |
| 20:19.17 | Tybusen | There doesn't seem to be any agriculture in the Tribal Stage, though, but agriculture isn't strictly necessary to form a society though |
| 20:19.30 | Tybusen | It's just that our ideas of "civilization" usually start with agriculture |
| 20:19.45 | DrodoEmpire | Agriculture is one mode of food production yes |
| 20:20.04 | DrodoEmpire | But it isn't coincidental that it was agricultural civilizations that invented writing, walled cities, and innovated technologically |
| 20:20.05 | Tybusen | Tribal Stage civs are an odd mix of gatherers and animal-domesticators |
| 20:20.38 | Tybusen | Yeah, because moving from hunter-gatherer to agricultural frees up people to perform other tasks |
| 20:21.04 | DrodoEmpire | Well, sorta |
| 20:21.47 | DrodoEmpire | Agriculture allows people to produce a vast amount of food and stay in one place- the sheer amount of food means population grows, and there's a small surplus for non-farmers, so soldiers and governors |
| 20:22.14 | DrodoEmpire | When a society gets too large for all data to be stored in one's head, often they either appropriate a nearby writing system, or make their own |
| 20:22.18 | DrodoEmpire | And thus writing's born |
| 20:22.34 | DrodoEmpire | Or rather proto-writing, which evolves in to writing |
| 20:22.58 | DrodoEmpire | This doesn't explain all occurances (the "oracle bone script" in china comes to mind) but its the most likely theory |
| 20:23.44 | Tybusen | I thought the Aztecs didn't really have much of a writing system? |
| 20:24.02 | DrodoEmpire | They didn't, which makes them a strange exception to the rule |
| 20:24.20 | DrodoEmpire | Especially considering the society literally next door had a well-developed writing system |
| 20:24.45 | DrodoEmpire | Such are the problems with recording history and civilizations- there are *always* exceptions |
| 20:24.45 | Tybusen | Though to be fair, it was extremely difficult for the Aztecs and Inca to interact |
| 20:24.50 | DrodoEmpire | No, not them |
| 20:24.52 | DrodoEmpire | Mayans |
| 20:24.54 | Tybusen | Ah |
| 20:25.20 | Tybusen | And then there's the Mongols who are always the exception |
| 20:25.24 | DrodoEmpire | The Incas had a form of tied, coloured knots and strings that was a... Recording system, but there's much debate over if its proper writing |
| 20:25.33 | DrodoEmpire | Especially considering nobody can read it anymore :p |
| 20:26.02 | Spluff5 | I do want to talk about the distinction between when they are mere villagers and when they star to build cities after discovering electricity. |
| 20:26.19 | Tybusen | Electricity is not a prerequisite for large cities |
| 20:26.26 | Monet_2 | DrodoEmpire: :Mongoltage: |
| 20:26.36 | DrodoEmpire | History isn't a linear process, and its extremely hard to write down neatly, as I've learnt. >.< |
| 20:26.58 | DrodoEmpire | I *really* wouldn't bother writing a complete history for a very long time, and focus on more recent and directly relevant stuff |
| 20:27.06 | Spluff5 | I know, I'm simplifying it so I don't have to write a book. |
| 20:27.08 | Tybusen | The Industrial Revolution was already well underway by the time electricity (in the "power plant" sense) was invented in the late 1800s |
| 20:27.31 | Monet | Oh wait Tybusen mentioned the Mongols |
| 20:27.36 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah hur |
| 20:27.43 | Tybusen | Urbanization really kicks in around the beginning of the Industrial era |
| 20:27.59 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah people began to *really* migrate to cities then |
| 20:28.05 | Tybusen | Which, to be fair to Spore, the Civ stage definitely starts at the Industrial era because of Factories |
| 20:28.12 | DrodoEmpire | They do |
| 20:28.19 | DrodoEmpire | Another horrendous abstraction |
| 20:28.32 | DrodoEmpire | God I would've loved to see a city stage or something between those points >.< |
| 20:28.47 | DrodoEmpire | It would fix so many glaring problems with the development of Spore species |
| 20:29.14 | Monet | If you're writing the empire history you could leave pre-empire history for now |
| 20:29.24 | DrodoEmpire | Like just a stage for the time between the advent of agriculture and industrialization- which is extremely large in and of itself but not quite as bad |
| 20:29.47 | Tybusen | I can probably look back at older drafts of Tybusen pre-Space history to see how I managed to write around the limitations of Spore's presentation |
| 20:31.43 | Tybusen | Another thing about the Civ stage is that the only realistic method of expansion that they show is conquest |
| 20:32.11 | Tybusen | Religious expansion and Economic expansion are both really weird |
| 20:32.12 | DrodoEmpire | Which isn't totally true, nor is it practical in the modern world |
| 20:32.24 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah it was pretty imbalanced |
| 20:32.46 | DrodoEmpire | Much easier to just bomb the shit out of the enemy then to convert it or buy them out :p |
| 20:33.18 | DrodoEmpire | All the other civs were really pretty passive anyway so its not like there was Aggressive Expansion penalties or anything like in EUIV |
| 20:33.24 | Tybusen | And history can more than attest to the fact that sharing a religion did not stop people from fighting each other |
| 20:33.31 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 20:33.31 | Spluff5 | They should have had a medieval stage where you could domesticate creatures and ride them. Also, they could introduce agriculture. |
| 20:33.45 | DrodoEmpire | Ehh not medieval specifically |
| 20:34.01 | DrodoEmpire | Just like a "city stage" from the ancient world to the early modern/industrial era |
| 20:34.26 | Spluff5 | That seemed like the most distinct step between the current civ stage and tribal stage. |
| 20:34.28 | DrodoEmpire | So basically everything from bronze swords to firearms, perhaps as high as muzzle-loaded rifles |
| 20:34.44 | DrodoEmpire | And then cut to Civ stage |
| 20:35.06 | DrodoEmpire | As a history guy I |
| 20:35.13 | DrodoEmpire | *I'd still bitch, just not as much |
| 20:35.14 | DrodoEmpire | >.> |
| 20:35.44 | Tybusen | At this point I think it should be pretty clear that you shouldn't base your civ's history too much on their actual Spore experiences if you're going for a marginally realistic history |
| 20:36.09 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 20:36.15 | DrodoEmpire | That's the moral of the story |
| 20:36.39 | Tybusen | Ironically enough I think the Space Stage is the most realistic of the five stages simply because there's nothing there for them to screw up |
| 20:36.51 | Tybusen | And even then |
| 20:37.10 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah... |
| 20:37.31 | Monet | It's odd to me how despite the random name generator the nations were named for their colour |
| 20:37.35 | DrodoEmpire | But even then- you're the one starship in your navy and also somehow in charge of foreign policy, if not the head of state |
| 20:37.48 | Spluff5 | Tybusen: Yeah, I wasn't going to do that, I was just going to use the names as reference points. I already have the events that propel them from Tribal to Civilisation and from Civ to Space. |
| 20:38.16 | Tybusen | The labels are pretty arbitrary so I'd recommend against using the Stage names specificially |
| 20:38.26 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 20:39.19 | Tybusen | And if you're just starting out, you don't really need to go in depth on your civ's pre-Space history unless it's really important |
| 20:40.28 | *** part/#sporewiki Treebeard (52068dfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.6.141.253) |
| 20:43.31 | Spluff5 | I'll just write a little bit, the species unique planet makes their history very interesting because it's so different to other species. |
| 20:44.27 | Spluff5 | For example, they discover how to use electricity at the same point in their development where humans discovered how to make iron tools. |
| 20:45.31 | Tybusen | That's interesting, I'd be intrigued to see how that turns out |
| 20:46.53 | Charles_Murray | Quick blind question |
| 20:46.57 | Charles_Murray | What does this symbol look like to you guys? http://imgur.com/buDBQdZ |
| 20:47.58 | Tybusen | Charles_Murray: https://media.makeameme.org/created/what-is-this-kswz3d.jpg |
| 20:48.32 | Charles_Murray | It's a small symbol for France's OOB |
| 20:48.43 | Charles_Murray | It's meant to be tiny, but also identifiable |
| 20:49.25 | DrodoEmpire | Meh, looks alright |
| 20:49.41 | Charles_Murray | The five stars indicate it's a corps |
| 20:49.47 | Charles_Murray | But what does the symbol look like to you? |
| 20:49.53 | Monet | I see artillery shells |
| 20:50.23 | Tybusen | I use a five-star pentagon for TIAF Admiral ranks so that's what I thought of first |
| 20:54.22 | Charles_Murray | Tybusen Monet DrodoEmpire : http://imgur.com/b7z2WmT |
| 20:54.24 | Charles_Murray | Better? |
| 20:55.02 | Tybusen | I still can't exactly make out what's in the center but I guess it's more distinctive than the first one |
| 20:58.21 | Charles_Murray | http://imgur.com/ETnteIi |
| 20:58.22 | Charles_Murray | Now? |
| 20:58.27 | Spluff5 | Are the French the only Human Empire? |
| 20:59.23 | Charles_Murray | France - We killed the rest |
| 21:00.10 | Charles_Murray | It's the most powerful one, but there are tons of others |
| 21:01.16 | Spluff5 | Is it centered around the game location of Earth in the Milky way? |
| 21:01.29 | Charles_Murray | http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/1/1f/Milky_Way_map_5.png/revision/latest?cb=20160612201032 |
| 21:02.10 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian (562d661d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.45.102.29) |
| 21:02.10 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 21:02.19 | Cyrannian | Hello everyone |
| 21:02.24 | Spluff5 | Hi |
| 21:02.27 | Charles_Murray | Hey |
| 21:02.51 | Spluff5 | Are there any other silicon-based races in the fiction? |
| 21:03.34 | Tybusen | Spluff5: Can't name any off the top of my head, Wormy_ might know the answer |
| 21:04.36 | Wormy_ | Yes, there are but I can't remember any specifically. However there are numerous biochemistries explored in the SporeWikiverse, many far less feasible and much more speculative. |
| 21:05.49 | Spluff5 | So, I'm one of the few. Nice! |
| 21:05.55 | Spluff5 | I'll have fun with this. |
| 21:05.57 | Wormy_ | Ghelae did a good guide http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/User%3AGhel%C3%A6/Guide_To_Stuff#Xenobiology |
| 21:06.07 | DrodoEmpire | Charles: Nah it looks good |
| 21:06.23 | DrodoEmpire | As far as I know, the Drodo are carbon-based, as with humans |
| 21:06.48 | Tybusen | As far as I'm aware, most Fictionverse species are carbon-based |
| 21:06.56 | DrodoEmpire | If they weren't then the Borderlanders couldn't exist, anyway- and even they require genetic modification |
| 21:07.58 | Spluff5 | I have thought a bit about it. Hydrogen sulfide is the best solvent to use I think. |
| 21:08.11 | Spluff5 | Because, volcano planet |
| 21:09.51 | Tybusen | But will they have a Volcano Emperor: http://i.imgur.com/18ghyBX.png |
| 21:09.59 | Spluff5 | Oooh, the atmosphere is really thick, and with hydrogen sulfide as a gas. Maybe I could start life off as airborne bacteria. |
| 21:10.10 | Spluff5 | Pun intended |
| 21:10.14 | DrodoEmpire | You could |
| 21:10.33 | DrodoEmpire | Tybusen: ohgod lol |
| 21:11.07 | DrodoEmpire | premium quality shitpost <.< |
| 21:11.14 | Wormy_ | Sounds like your planet will need some hydrogen sulfide cycle |
| 21:11.20 | Tybusen | only the best from Tybusen Shitposting (TM) |
| 21:11.26 | Wormy_ | For more complex forms of life |
| 21:11.58 | Tybusen | Spluff5: I'm interested to see where you take this, silicon-based species that learned to use electricity very early in their history seems like a very unique concept |
| 21:13.00 | Spluff5 | Yeah, silicon chemistry is as intuitive to them as carbon chemistry is to us. So making a semi-conductor is as easy as baking a cake. |
| 21:14.27 | Monet | It might not be that simple |
| 21:15.26 | Spluff5 | Artistic license. It sounds cool |
| 21:15.56 | Wormy_ | Just a note: to have it in liquid form your planet would have to be cold, but only between -82 and -60 degrees C, so either its temperature can't vary much or your species is adapted to having its solvent frozen and evaporated all the time |
| 21:16.00 | Tybusen | Spluff5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQp5l4-sfFA the Sanuran national anthem |
| 21:16.40 | Wormy_ | probably varies at different pressures though |
| 21:16.55 | Spluff5 | I'm going for a II on the SciFi hardness scale where, I give explainations for stuff that sound good and may or may not stand up under scrutiny. |
| 21:17.22 | Spluff5 | Yeah, there is a very thick atmosphere with a lot of pressure, similar to that of Venus |
| 21:17.36 | Monet | creating a semiconductor is a bit more complex than making petrol out of crude oil |
| 21:19.10 | Wormy_ | There certainly would be things more intuitive to species from one environment compared to another. Semiconductors are unlikely to be more intuitive to them though, considering knowledge one has to acquire in order to understand and have the incentive to buod them |
| 21:19.22 | Wormy_ | *build |
| 21:19.45 | Spluff5 | That was just an extreme example. |
| 21:19.57 | Spluff5 | Tybusen: https://youtu.be/f0-Qz-aeaU4?t=22s |
| 21:20.02 | Spluff5 | I was think more of this |
| 21:21.30 | Tybusen | Sanurans - lol the floor is lava |
| 21:22.12 | Spluff5 | Well, the oceans anyway |
| 21:22.38 | Spluff5 | BRB guys |
| 21:22.42 | Tybusen | http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ygnp53ZK1qejjp6o4_250.gif Sanuran national pastime |
| 21:25.31 | DrodoEmpire | ayy lmao |
| 21:28.57 | Spluff5 | OMG stop |
| 21:32.08 | Spluff5 | How long ago was the earliest empire in the Milky Way spacefaring? |
| 21:32.59 | Tybusen | Probably a long long time ago |
| 21:33.15 | Tybusen | The in-universe Grox are ancient but technically they're from Andromeda |
| 21:34.19 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, I don't think anybody really knows |
| 21:38.18 | Tybusen | You could theoretically have one as soon as the first environment capable of supporting life appeared, though I don't know who the oldest non-godrace species is |
| 21:38.45 | Tybusen | The Grox are in the running but I'm almost certain that there has to be an older Milky Way civ than that |
| 21:38.56 | Monet | The Milky Way Precursors are millions of years old |
| 21:40.03 | Spluff5 | Because Treebeard and I are designing an ancient Empire situation (I'm not saying it was aliens but...). We don't want to have events occur that mess up established canon in the future. |
| 21:40.24 | DrodoEmpire | Okay |
| 21:43.07 | Wormy_ | 13 billion years of mostly empty history, shouldn't be too easy to mess things up |
| 21:43.43 | Spluff5 | We were thinking 200 thousand years. Although i would be willing to go higher. That should be enough. |
| 21:44.58 | Wormy_ | The main precursors of the Milky Wat were the Xynaxes (during its formation), then the Grox probably arrived 5 to 6 billion years ago, and then about 65 million years ago the Oikumene created sentient dinosaurs on Earth |
| 21:45.50 | Wormy_ | Which were nearly destroyed but some managed to flee in relativistic ships |
| 21:45.58 | Tybusen | 200,000 years predates most of modern Milky Way history and puts it after most of the ancient history stuff |
| 21:46.09 | Wormy_ | The next group were the Ateins, not sure when they appeared they are truly alien |
| 21:46.50 | Wormy_ | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Orion_Spur#History http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Milky_Way_Precursors |
| 21:47.02 | Tybusen | In an absolute sense, 200,000 years makes them about 50,000 years younger than the Draconis |
| 21:47.18 | Tybusen | Who are fairly old in their own right |
| 21:49.31 | Spluff5 | Sounds good |
| 21:50.35 | Monet | I wonder about going with the idea that the Draconis are a continuation of something much older |
| 21:50.57 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, I think you mentioned that to me anyway |
| 21:53.17 | Spluff5 | We were thinking, a Coalition of Planets of sorts that becomes quite powerful but is wiped out, probably by some kind of war with either the Grox, Vex or Treebeard's ancient race fighting mine. |
| 21:54.44 | DrodoEmpire | Interesting |
| 21:57.54 | Wormy_ | I don't mind if you call it Coalition of Planets, since its pretty generic. Though there is already my "Delpha Coalition of Planets", so you may want a different title to stand it out. |
| 21:59.46 | Spluff5 | Well, the official title is The Perseus Coalition of Worlds but P-COW looks a bit silly. I'll probably just refer to it as the coalition, especially be the member species. |
| 22:00.10 | Wormy_ | lol |
| 22:02.48 | Spluff5 | DrodoEmpire: Actually, the Coalition is pretty close to where the Drodo Empire will be in the future. Maybe we could do some kind of time travel/I visit prehistoric you collab. |
| 22:03.14 | DrodoEmpire | Well, there is actually a fiction for that |
| 22:03.30 | DrodoEmpire | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction%3AThe_Living_Ancients |
| 22:03.36 | DrodoEmpire | And I'm doing something similar with Monet |
| 22:03.37 | Charles_Murray | Took another stab at representing Gigaquadrant-wide deployments of troops. What do you guys think of the format? http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:French_Empire#Commands |
| 22:03.52 | DrodoEmpire | Though this one with Monet's during the Drodo industrial era |
| 22:04.29 | DrodoEmpire | X-COM <.< |
| 22:04.45 | Spluff5 | I was thinking of seeing the Drodo as just animals or maybe even cells depend on how far back. |
| 22:04.55 | DrodoEmpire | Ehh... Maybe |
| 22:05.09 | DrodoEmpire | I've not developed much the prehistory for the Drodo |
| 22:05.38 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire: I swear that wasn't on purpose |
| 22:05.44 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 22:05.57 | Charles_Murray | I made CIE-COM, then realized the same formula would produce X-COM |
| 22:05.59 | Charles_Murray | And kept it |
| 22:06.06 | Charles_Murray | "Xonexi Command" |
| 22:06.31 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
| 22:07.15 | Monet | I'd be happy to see more variation on Living Ancients |
| 22:07.27 | Charles_Murray | You can hover over the symbols to see what they are |
| 22:07.43 | Charles_Murray | What do you think? |
| 22:07.51 | DrodoEmpire | I think its really, really cool |
| 22:08.49 | Charles_Murray | :D |
| 22:09.41 | Monet | although the idea is it documents instances of ET encounters between known living empires and pre-spacefaring incarnations of modern civs |
| 22:09.58 | Spluff5 | Where is this? |
| 22:11.47 | Charles_Murray | Where is what? |
| 22:12.57 | Spluff5 | You guys are talking a bout a list of encounters between empires in the ancient past? |
| 22:16.03 | Wormy_STO | http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=720489503 |
| 22:16.38 | Spluff5 | And, on that note... |
| 22:17.15 | Monet | I was mentioning Li in |
| 22:17.30 | Monet | Living Ancients |
| 22:18.04 | Spluff5 | I have a plane to catch. I probably wont be on for the next day or two. I would really appreciate feedback on the Sanurans thus far! |
| 22:18.07 | Spluff5 | Thanks guys |
| 22:18.14 | Spluff5 | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:The_Sanurans |
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| 23:02.43 | Monet | So the theory I have for the DI is that a much older entity existed, but at some point the Draconis took the reins |
| 23:03.44 | Monet | whatever the old capital was, the Draconis made Alcanti the capital |
| 23:13.06 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 23:23.30 | Monet | Though it might make the DI more stagnant than it presently is |
| 23:36.35 | Monet | Or its one of the Imperium's dark ages |
| 23:38.30 | Monet | the conflict for dominance could be catastrophic |
| 23:38.35 | *** join/#sporewiki Quark8 (49c685a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.198.133.167) |
| 23:38.36 | Quark8 | Hello. |
| 23:40.46 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
