| 00:03.32 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (2f37c5db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.55.197.219) |
| 00:09.40 | DrodoEmpire | test |
| 00:09.51 | DrodoEmpire | test |
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| 00:10.44 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 00:10.56 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 00:11.53 | The_Randomness | wb |
| 00:13.36 | Wormy_ | I wonder if true AGI (strong AI, aka people) will be in a sense freer than human beings when it comes to their place in society. There is much spoken about how automation could replace most if not all jobs. For narrow AI, I dispute they could take all jobs (surely not creative or intellectual ones), though AGI could. However, to use AGI like we use narrow AI today would be slavery |
| 00:14.39 | Wormy_ | AGI people would work by choice. But why would they work in the human world, if they were digital or something like that, they are already outside most of the human sphere (the need for housing, eating etc.). How would they be paid? With more power, more computing resources? |
| 00:15.09 | Wormy_ | Or would AGI just do their own thing free of most other human soceital limitations |
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| 00:15.26 | DrodoEmpire_ | Other computer's frozen and having internet issues |
| 00:15.27 | DrodoEmpire_ | >.< |
| 00:17.06 | Wormy_ | Anyway that was my "On the toilet" thoughts |
| 00:17.41 | The_Randomness | Wormy_: They would sit around and produce spicy AGI memes |
| 00:17.54 | Wormy_ | Sounds like my kind of life |
| 00:18.12 | The_Randomness | And laugh with us at the singularitarians |
| 00:18.19 | Wormy_ | Indeed |
| 00:18.27 | DrodoEmpire_ | Aw, I missed Wormy's toilet thoughts >: |
| 00:18.45 | Wormy_ | http://pastie.org/private/fnlw6cix5xnfdlbemnq |
| 00:20.15 | DrodoEmpire_ | Tough question |
| 00:20.46 | DrodoEmpire_ | I presume a sapient AI with human intellegence would also have societal expectations like humans, at least once they become accepted members of society |
| 00:21.21 | DrodoEmpire_ | If they also existed in an android unit, even moreso |
| 00:21.38 | Wormy_ | yeah |
| 00:22.18 | DrodoEmpire_ | So I mean... I figure at that point they'd be paid like any other human and work like one (albeit in an occupation befitting their processing power, like a hyperadministrator or something) |
| 00:22.57 | DrodoEmpire_ | They *may* end up with certain inequalities though, I dunno- maybe they'd be exempt from military draft? I dunno |
| 00:23.02 | DrodoEmpire_ | That's just an example |
| 00:23.35 | Wormy_ | Seems to depend on how accepted they could be |
| 00:24.21 | DrodoEmpire_ | All I know is that fictionwise Drodo distrust androids and robots, and have any production of them regulated out of possibility |
| 00:24.40 | DrodoEmpire_ | (One of the few things the government regulates heavily, and only because most Drodo cultures can agree on it >.<) |
| 00:25.09 | DrodoEmpire_ | Foreign androids are probably seen with a bit of suspicion too, but it'd depend |
| 00:26.52 | DrodoEmpire_ | If they're particularly convincing, your average Drodo might not even notice :p |
| 00:26.53 | Wormy_ | Not sure how AI fit in DCP society. They probably have to conform to the DCP's power structure (so no over-aching Kurzweilian Skynet) |
| 00:27.00 | DrodoEmpire_ | Ahh |
| 00:27.09 | Wormy_ | But discrimination within the DCP of course is punishable |
| 00:27.33 | DrodoEmpire_ | Drodo - That French guy is even paler than usual... |
| 00:27.53 | DrodoEmpire_ | Drodo - ...Aand he's a know-it-all. That's French for sure <.< |
| 00:27.54 | Monet | I've mentioned androids with rights comparable to organics in the DI |
| 00:32.16 | Monet | Though I suppose with the Draconis the line between synthetic and organic starts to blur |
| 00:38.15 | DrodoEmpire_ | Yeah |
| 00:38.30 | DrodoEmpire_ | And really I sorta figure that's what might happen with advanced societies |
| 01:10.43 | The_Randomness | Yeah, makes sense |
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| 01:25.08 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 01:25.25 | The_Randomness | hm, that was strange |
| 01:42.40 | Wormy_ | gimme dat fish nao http://www.storyofsize.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Elephant-Seal-01-634x443.jpg |
| 01:46.32 | DrodoEmpire_ | ayy lmao |
| 01:47.10 | Wormy_ | DrodoEmpire_ Didn't you want to know more about Jeremy Kyle Show? This is all you need to know https://twitter.com/savs66/status/750037114402865152 |
| 01:48.29 | DrodoEmpire_ | Oh dear |
| 01:53.50 | The_Randomness | WutFace |
| 01:53.57 | Wormy_ | more watface https://twitter.com/edgarwright/status/749550743435223040 |
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| 01:54.45 | The_Randomness | wat |
| 01:59.34 | DrodoEmpire_ | wot |
| 02:00.10 | DrodoEmpire_ | British tabloids are so much fun |
| 02:01.03 | DrodoEmpire_ | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/One:wone - I don't even know |
| 02:01.38 | Wormy_ | Our TV news is a bit dry... Unlike American news it seems |
| 02:02.27 | DrodoEmpire_ | British tabloids seem like they're harmless fun- American media sensationalises terrorists and in that regard they're harmful I think |
| 02:02.46 | DrodoEmpire_ | Correct me if I'm wrong though |
| 02:03.08 | Monet | British Tabloids do that second bit. |
| 02:03.30 | Wormy_ | Is that article trying to emulate the mind of Jaden Smith? |
| 02:04.45 | DrodoEmpire_ | olol |
| 02:04.58 | Monet | Though if British Tabloids look like 'harmless fun' from an American/Canadian perspective. That must mean American tablod journalism is completely off-the-wall to us. |
| 02:05.06 | Wormy_ | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:213829 |
| 02:05.16 | Wormy_ | Actually I like this user |
| 02:06.00 | DrodoEmpire_ | Monet: Its mostly about celebrities and stuff- probably more of the same but we don't really give it much attention |
| 02:06.21 | DrodoEmpire_ | Yeah he might turn out fine |
| 02:06.30 | DrodoEmpire_ | Just seems like a bit of an oddball |
| 02:10.17 | DrodoEmpire_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHLs8dDkFls - This has got to be my one of my favourite clutches in CS:GO |
| 02:10.18 | Monet | goodnight |
| 02:10.21 | DrodoEmpire_ | Night |
| 02:13.30 | Wormy_ | I should go as well, night |
| 04:32.24 | drom | ~infobot test |
| 04:32.24 | infobot | somebody said test was not funny |
| 04:32.28 | drom | whew |
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| 11:45.28 | Hachiman | Hi |
| 11:46.54 | Monet | Hi |
| 11:53.36 | Ghelae | Hi |
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| 12:07.00 | Hachiman | Wormy_: Juno is now in Jupiter's orbit |
| 12:07.50 | Wormy_ | I saw |
| 12:07.56 | Wormy_ | Great stuff |
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| 12:09.49 | Jepardi | Hi |
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| 12:30.28 | Wormy_ | https://twitter.com/seanmcarroll/status/749473190464806912 |
| 12:32.24 | Hachiman | Oh wow |
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| 12:43.01 | Tek0516 | Hello |
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| 13:35.24 | DrodoEmpire | Hi everyone |
| 13:52.23 | Monet | Hello |
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| 14:19.59 | ImpyDroid2 | Hachiman: So the Death Note film cast has been announced and everyone is whining about L being played by a black guy |
| 14:20.13 | Hachiman | What the fuck |
| 14:20.14 | ImpyDroid2 | That everyone else is played by white actors is apparently okay |
| 14:20.27 | Hachiman | What the |
| 14:20.33 | Hachiman | Are they Americanizing Death Note |
| 14:21.23 | Hachiman | There are already two popular Death Note live action films |
| 14:22.38 | ImpyDroid2 | Well obviously an American studio would americanise it |
| 14:23.07 | Monet | Don't Japanese studios do similar when they adapt Western franchises? |
| 14:24.15 | DrodoEmpire | Historically that's what happens really- the characters are changed to the local ethnicites, be they fictional or religious and or whatever else |
| 14:24.15 | Monet | Or is it Chinese? |
| 14:24.22 | Hachiman | Chinese |
| 14:24.46 | DrodoEmpire | I mean, Jesus is/was depicted as asian by Chinese Christians, white by European Christians, etc. |
| 14:24.59 | DrodoEmpire | Despite the fact he was likely semitic/Syrian |
| 14:25.06 | ImpyDroid2 | Monet: Well obviously race lifting is a thing but why complai about the black L in particular |
| 14:25.17 | ImpyDroid2 | When EVERYONE is being racebent |
| 14:25.47 | DrodoEmpire | I dunno, if you're going to arbitrarily change the race of some character it doesn't really matter to what race they're changed- you've already done it >.< |
| 14:26.14 | Hachiman | Because there's some form of homo subtext going on between Light and L and people probably cannot stand the idea of a fully-grown black man having this kind of relationship with a white school student |
| 14:29.33 | ImpyDroid2 | Hachiman: Light dropped the soap |
| 14:30.22 | Hachiman | Also, the Japanese tend to draw their anime / manga characters as if they were white rather than actually Japanese, so casting white people to play those characters makes some sense |
| 14:30.45 | ImpyDroid2 | Well the actual term is "raceless" I think |
| 14:31.39 | ImpyDroid2 | Oh come on you are actually saying race lift to white is okay but to black isn't |
| 14:31.39 | ImpyDroid2 | Seriously? |
| 14:31.49 | Hachiman | What the fuck, I didn't say that |
| 14:32.38 | ImpyDroid2 | You just did |
| 14:32.54 | Monet | I've heard complates over Motoko Kurosagi being played by Scarlett Johanssen |
| 14:33.41 | Hachiman | I'm not complaining about a black L; I'm making assumptions as to WHY people could be upset over a black L |
| 14:34.02 | Monet | My stance on it is the Major's 90% robot so why should her skin colour matter? |
| 14:34.06 | Hachiman | Stop putting fucking words in my mouth you imbecile |
| 14:34.28 | ImpyDroid2 | Who are you calling an imbecile |
| 14:34.28 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, Impy, you did put words in his mouth |
| 14:34.32 | ImpyDroid2 | Calm down |
| 14:34.34 | DrodoEmpire | Both of you shut up |
| 14:34.46 | Hachiman | >Calm down |
| 14:35.00 | Hachiman | You're the one who accused me of supporting white supremacy |
| 14:35.08 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi, please? If you two want to argue take it to PMs |
| 14:35.17 | ImpyDroid2 | Did I insult you though |
| 14:35.17 | DrodoEmpire | Otherwise, stop this right now |
| 14:35.25 | Hachiman | I felt offended |
| 14:36.00 | ImpyDroid2 | You could explain yourself then |
| 14:36.04 | Hachiman | I just did |
| 14:36.07 | Hachiman | Can you not read |
| 14:36.12 | ImpyDroid2 | And you called me an imbecile |
| 14:36.17 | ImpyDroid2 | Nobody insults me |
| 14:36.41 | ImpyDroid2 | You explained yourself sure |
| 14:36.48 | Hachiman | They do if you're going to act paranoid and accuse people of racism at first opportunity |
| 14:37.27 | ImpyDroid2 | Well pardon me for drawing conclusions but I was not the one who descended into insults to |
| 15:00.03 | ImpyDroid2 | I. |
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| 16:30.25 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.16 | Cyrannian | Hi |
| 16:32.25 | Technobliterator | hihi |
| 16:33.36 | Monet | Hi |
| 16:49.12 | Wormy_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy32A2NoCVw |
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| 16:54.30 | Cyrannian | Hi Treebeard |
| 16:54.49 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 16:55.10 | DrodoEmpire_ | Hi |
| 16:55.44 | Monet | Hello |
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| 17:02.52 | AdmiralPanda | hi all |
| 17:05.19 | Wormy_ | So someone gave death threats to Stephen Hawking http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-arrested-armed-police-guard-8323284 |
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| 18:02.35 | Tek0516 | Wormy_: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1467730772-20160705.png |
| 18:03.14 | Wormy_ | lol |
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| 18:11.49 | Tybusen | Good morning |
| 18:14.30 | Tek0516 | Good afternoon Tybusen |
| 18:14.30 | Tybusen | Technobliterator: I was thinking about picking up Final Fantasy VI, which version of FFVI do you think is the best? |
| 18:15.13 | Tybusen | Tek0516: ye non-west coast hoser |
| 18:19.54 | DrodoEmpire_ | Hi |
| 18:21.13 | drom_ | Another day, still no 10 USBs in my mailbox |
| 18:24.41 | Charles_PC | tst |
| 18:25.21 | Tybusen | You dropped your 'e' |
| 18:25.57 | DrodoEmpire_ | picks the e back up, dusts it off, and puts it back in Charles' coat pocket |
| 18:26.09 | DrodoEmpire_ | Keep care're your stuff, alright? |
| 18:30.07 | Wormy_ | Nobody wants an e |
| 18:31.38 | drom_ | Hey. If you don't want your 'e's I can take them off you if you want. |
| 18:35.34 | drom_ | Wormy_: https://youtu.be/JFl8k-rloyU |
| 18:36.57 | Wormy_ | милÑй |
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| 18:37.03 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 18:37.15 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 18:38.48 | drom_ | Wormy_: деÑÑÑвиÑелÑно |
| 18:40.09 | Wormy_ | да на Ñамом деле |
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| 18:41.05 | Hellrock | Hi everyone |
| 18:41.09 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 18:41.12 | Monet | Hi |
| 18:41.25 | Wormy_ | hey up |
| 18:41.37 | Tybusen | Hello |
| 18:55.53 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 19:02.40 | Ghel | Hello. |
| 19:03.14 | Hellrock | Hai |
| 19:05.33 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 19:06.15 | Tek0516 | Hello |
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| 19:09.56 | ImpyDroid | Hi |
| 19:10.25 | Ghel | Hello. |
| 19:11.59 | Monet | Hi |
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| 20:33.43 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/AxzIW1A |
| 20:35.53 | drom_ | Wormy_: Yesterday at work, when I was idling after struggling with some paperwork |
| 20:36.33 | Wormy_ | You turned purple? |
| 20:36.36 | drom_ | While I was that, I googled about artifical gravity, and it hit me that in hard-fiction, there would be no field generator |
| 20:37.10 | drom_ | So I read extra about magnetic boots and haranesses |
| 20:38.00 | Wormy_ | Okay, completely took that off in the wrong direction there |
| 20:38.17 | drom_ | Wormy_: I did not type fast enough |
| 20:38.26 | Technobliterator | Tybusen, if you're picking it up for the first time, you'll probably be fine with the iOS/Android/PC versions |
| 20:38.36 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (188e3f51@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.142.63.81) |
| 20:38.43 | drom_ | It turned out I was indeed purple after reading your message. |
| 20:38.52 | Wormy_ | lmao |
| 20:38.52 | Technobliterator | They're the easiest to get, have the best OST, and have all the GBA updates, but the graphics are changed a lot, which puts off people who are used to the old versions |
| 20:39.19 | Technobliterator | Emulating the SNES version is also really great, but it doesn't have all the content of the updated versions |
| 20:39.41 | Technobliterator | Emulating the GBA version also works great if you want extra content and don't mind the OST |
| 20:39.49 | Technobliterator | So, it's up to you :o |
| 20:40.33 | drom_ | Anyway, Wormy_. If I had adapted that to my fiction, their ships would have corridors with two floors and lots of ladder props on them, ferromagnetic tiles on them too. |
| 20:40.35 | Tybusen | Not sure if I want to sink $16 into my first foray into FF so I might go with the GBA version |
| 20:41.04 | Tybusen | I've read though that there are patches that gives the GBA version the SNES music |
| 20:41.20 | drom_ | Wormy_: Those floors are being planes facing each other, of course. |
| 20:41.38 | Wormy_ | But yes, there's no such thing as a magical gravity generator in physics today: you either use correct amounts of super-dense materials or tiny black holes (mass in a small space), or you use rotation |
| 20:42.21 | Tybusen | Also, GBA is convenient for me if only because I have GBA emulators on both my phone and computer |
| 20:42.38 | Wormy_ | Magnetism could secure things, but at a fundamental level it won't help against bone degredation |
| 20:42.54 | drom_ | Wormy_: No rotation, adapt micro-gravity suits for the crew and pump lots of medical technology to nullify the atrophy caused by micro-gravity. |
| 20:43.22 | Tybusen | Technobliterator: Do you think the OST changes are a deal breaker for the GBA version? I could get the OST patch for a GBA version but that could be complicated |
| 20:43.54 | Technobliterator | If you can patch the GBA version to update the OST, then that's probably the most ideal option |
| 20:44.09 | Wormy_ | Fluid distribution in the body would still also be a problem |
| 20:44.58 | drom_ | Wormy_: Reuse the handwavium from the gravity generators to a technology that solves the problem you stated. |
| 20:45.05 | Wormy_ | drom_ Actually yeah, one might imagine somekind of bio/nanotech that could fight atrophy |
| 20:45.24 | Wormy_ | I get your point |
| 20:45.59 | Cyrannian | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Vehicle:Nemesis-class_Star_Dreadnought - Started on this |
| 20:46.19 | drom_ | Wormy_: Biomechanical augments and other tech-savvy stuff if you are into said technology. |
| 20:47.06 | drom_ | For one I've thought of integrated titanium trusses in the bones. |
| 20:47.24 | drom_ | It does not solve the problem of the bones shrinking in size however. |
| 20:48.51 | Tek0516 | Make the bodily fluids magnetic then use an electromagnetic field to simulate gravity. :P |
| 20:48.54 | Wormy_ | Or better yet, have a post-biological spaceforce |
| 20:49.18 | drom_ | It may be expensive however, if you have to implement those in every single space-faring individual |
| 20:49.26 | Wormy_ | Cyborgs, bots, nanotech, von neumann machines |
| 20:49.45 | drom_ | But hell, why would you have awake marines in your transport hold for years and years, doing nothing? |
| 20:49.49 | Wormy_ | Possibly not in the far future |
| 20:49.52 | drom_ | When you have cryogenic sleepers? |
| 20:50.42 | Wormy_ | Or have a cyborg/machines that simply play in virtual worlds till the job is done |
| 20:50.54 | Wormy_ | *till the journey |
| 20:51.24 | drom_ | Wormy_: There are automation, still |
| 20:52.03 | drom_ | Anyway. There is issue number two |
| 20:52.08 | drom_ | (and three) |
| 20:52.17 | drom_ | Fires |
| 20:52.39 | drom_ | They are ludicrously dangerous in micro-gravity environments, since no force keeps them down. |
| 20:53.28 | drom_ | To solve this, give the crew fire-resistant suits and have corridors with many airlocks and "firelocks" |
| 20:54.15 | drom_ | And assure the electronics and other techno-babble are safe enough to be operated in micro-gravity, regardless condition. |
| 20:54.40 | drom_ | Issue three: |
| 20:54.57 | drom_ | Growth of micro-scopic life. |
| 20:55.40 | drom_ | I read a book about the life as an astronaut, and the challanges they are facing every day, every hour, minute and second. |
| 20:56.03 | drom_ | Growth of otherwise harmless bacteria in vents, being one of them. |
| 20:57.11 | drom_ | The said bacteria can be found everywhere on Earth, including our homes and food. |
| 20:57.26 | drom_ | But in space, they grow in a number large enough to be harmful to humans. |
| 21:02.26 | drom_ | To combat that, they clean the vents on a regular basis. |
| 21:02.53 | drom_ | Saying this on courtsey of someone that has been on International Space Station |
| 21:03.52 | drom_ | Wormy_ Tek0516: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/10/international-space-station-home-potentially-dangerous-bacteria |
| 21:04.09 | drom_ | Since you both showed interest |
| 21:06.47 | Wormy_ | Yep to all of that |
| 21:07.48 | drom_ | It was a blast to talk about this, Wormy_ Tek0516. Thank you. |
| 21:07.59 | drom_ | Now I need to go unconscious |
| 21:08.39 | Wormy_ | Goodnight |
| 21:14.32 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/eukOsU6 |
| 21:27.30 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (53713253@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.113.50.83) |
| 21:28.24 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 21:31.25 | Technobliterator | Wormy_, will you be able to finish the Reckoning section sometime this week? |
| 21:33.15 | Technobliterator | Also, ImpyDroid2 and Cyrannian, are you guys free to discuss Reckoning sections this week? |
| 21:34.03 | Cyrannian | Tomorrow perhaps |
| 21:48.13 | Technobliterator | Tomorrow is good |
| 21:48.28 | Technobliterator | I am probably going to write up post-Reckoning fiction early |
| 21:48.43 | Wormy_ | Tonight ore tomorrow |
| 21:49.35 | Technobliterator | \o/ |
| 22:08.50 | DrodoEmpire | ~seen dino82_ |
| 22:08.54 | infobot | dino82_ <d8dd47aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.221.71.170> was last seen on IRC in channel #sporewiki, 3d 22h 44m 38s ago, saying: '@drom: Yeah, I liked how it played out, nto the most basic ships as well'. |
| 22:10.28 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5aff252c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.37.44) |
| 22:10.29 | Hachiman | Hi |
| 22:12.53 | Technobliterator | hihi |
| 22:15.27 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 22:22.19 | ImpyDroid2 | hi |
| 22:23.19 | Monet | Hi |
| 22:29.59 | DrodoEmpire | So I'm watching DS9 |
| 22:30.33 | DrodoEmpire | And I've just been reminded of another glaring flaw in the federation military- civilians on board a warship |
| 22:30.42 | DrodoEmpire | *Even when they know they'll be headed in to battle* |
| 22:30.57 | DrodoEmpire | All that does is spread panic and make evacuations 10 times harder |
| 22:46.20 | Wormy_ | Hachiman: So there's a black magician on Youtube who does black magic and Satanic magic, and has recently been exploring Lovecraftian evocations |
| 22:46.47 | Wormy_ | https://www.youtube.com/user/EAKoettingOfficial |
| 22:46.58 | Hachiman | Huh |
| 22:50.15 | Charles_Murray | test |
| 22:56.48 | Monet | DrodoEMpire: I take it you refer to SIsko losing his wife at WOlf 359? |
| 22:56.57 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
| 22:57.18 | DrodoEmpire | It could've *completely avoided* had they used a sensible military doctrine >.< |
| 22:58.15 | Monet | What about the Enterprise itself |
| 22:58.29 | Monet | "Charging a Borg Cube? Don't bother evacuatin *any* civvies" |
| 22:58.49 | Monet | The enterprise has a crew compliment of like 1000 |
| 22:58.52 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah... |
| 22:58.55 | Monet | Not including spouses and kids |
| 23:03.21 | Monet | I think the idea is the Federation has seen an era of peace for so long they don't see anything dangerous about bringing civilians aboard |
| 23:04.27 | Monet | But it took them what, 5? 8 years before they launched a vessel not intended to carry families? |
| 23:08.54 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah the issue with Starfleet is that since the TOS era its whole doctrine and operation's become watered-down and shitty |
| 23:09.08 | DrodoEmpire | By TNG it ceased to be an effective military institution |
| 23:11.27 | *** join/#sporewiki Technobliterator (Technoblit@gateway/shell/firrre/x-pbjgvfjppoglwuak) |
| 23:11.27 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Technobliterator] by ChanServ |
| 23:12.48 | Wormy_ | STO is noncanon, but if its anything to go by, the Feds learn the error of their ways |
| 23:13.22 | Monet | Only took them 30-odd years. |
| 23:14.36 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 23:14.37 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 23:15.07 | DrodoEmpire | If it took the British or Americans that long to fully militarize, we'd all be speaking German right now |
| 23:16.47 | Wormy_ | I think what we must take into account is that the Feds saw themselves as peace keepers, and tbh were the main power of their region. The average cruiser an front of line ships were more than a match for most neighbouring factions except perhaps the Breen and some Romulan ship classes. |
| 23:17.35 | Wormy_ | So they obviously became decadent and had little incentive to be militarised |
| 23:17.37 | Hachiman | Yeah; they were the main power because there was nobody else in their region to contest them |
| 23:17.42 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 23:17.54 | DrodoEmpire | Which is no excuse |
| 23:17.55 | Hachiman | Not because of any military or technological advantage |
| 23:18.48 | DrodoEmpire | After TOS, the federation wasn't very contested, so their military capabilities rotted away |
| 23:19.16 | Wormy_ | Actually they had both really, and their greatest threats (i.e. Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons) were too busy sunk into their own problems and squabbles. The Federartion's main incentive was to keep them from going to war |
| 23:19.30 | Hachiman | I don't see how they had both |
| 23:19.37 | Wormy_ | Obviously, it didn't work for the Feds when the Borg and then Dominion showed up |
| 23:20.09 | Hachiman | You had to be ultra shit in order to lose a battle against the Feds |
| 23:20.12 | Wormy_ | I didn't read military, woops |
| 23:20.16 | Monet | What about the Romaulans? |
| 23:20.30 | Wormy_ | They have a general tech advantage over most of their neighbors |
| 23:20.41 | Monet | Singularity cores, clopakign tech, distruptors |
| 23:20.44 | Hachiman | I mean, for fuck's sake, the FERENGI outdid the Feds in most areas |
| 23:20.52 | Wormy_ | With some exceptions of course - Romulan tech you mention |
| 23:21.06 | Wormy_ | Or Breen energy dampening weapons |
| 23:21.14 | Wormy_ | Or Tholian energy webs |
| 23:21.32 | Monet | Feds had a quality of life advantage. |
| 23:21.52 | Monet | Maybe some diplomatic skill |
| 23:22.02 | Wormy_ | Still we;ve seen Fed ships utterly decimate Roman ships and fleets |
| 23:22.05 | Hachiman | And humanocentric writing :p |
| 23:22.07 | Wormy_ | *romulan |
| 23:22.14 | Charles_Murray | Depends on what you mean by diplomatic skill |
| 23:22.44 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy_: Yeah that doesn't change the fact that they were utterly unsuited to war |
| 23:22.46 | DrodoEmpire | Starfleet was |
| 23:22.57 | Hachiman | If the Federation was in any other science fiction universe, I honestly doubt they'd stand much of a chance against anyone |
| 23:22.57 | Wormy_ | I don't disagree |
| 23:23.13 | DrodoEmpire | Hachiman: I totally agree |
| 23:23.26 | DrodoEmpire | They'd be annihilated by most other sci-fi universes |
| 23:23.32 | Wormy_ | Their strategy didn't anticipate new threats |
| 23:23.39 | Charles_Murray | I've been seriously impressed by the ability of the Romulans and Cardassians to navigate power relations, while whenever the Federation did something equally skillful, it was usually overdone by a character who was painted as a villain |
| 23:24.23 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 23:24.27 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 23:24.36 | DrodoEmpire | That's because real diplomacy and politics are eeeeevil, Charles <.< |
| 23:24.40 | DrodoEmpire | YOU'RE EEEEVIL, CHARLES |
| 23:24.43 | DrodoEmpire | >.> |
| 23:24.48 | Monet | I think Pike was Right in Into Darkness, he was jsut talking about the wrong continuity |
| 23:25.05 | Hachiman | The main thing the Feds have going for them, really, are the writers of the show |
| 23:25.12 | DrodoEmpire | olol |
| 23:25.14 | DrodoEmpire | Pretty much |
| 23:25.17 | Monet | Pretty-much. |
| 23:25.27 | *** join/#sporewiki Technobliterator (Technoblit@gateway/shell/firrre/x-qvmrgioxdqnzskoc) |
| 23:25.27 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Technobliterator] by ChanServ |
| 23:25.54 | DrodoEmpire | Character shields and movie aimbot are the two most powerful weapons of war |
| 23:26.16 | DrodoEmpire | And dumb, miraculous luck is always handy |
| 23:26.53 | Monet | Chris Pine's Captain Kirk and his infinite well of dumb luck. |
| 23:27.00 | DrodoEmpire | lol |
| 23:28.01 | Cyrannian | It irks me that in one of the future timelines in STO, both the Klingons and the Romulans have joined the Federation |
| 23:28.25 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (53713253@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.113.50.83) |
| 23:28.33 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah... That sorta eliminates the two biggest plot conflicts, doesn't it? |
| 23:28.44 | Monet | Pardon my friech but grande merde how the bloody-hell did they manage that!? |
| 23:28.49 | Monet | French* |
| 23:28.58 | Charles_Murray | Whoops, DCed |
| 23:29.01 | Wormy_ | By dogooderising the Klingons |
| 23:29.02 | Charles_Murray | What did I miss? |
| 23:29.10 | Wormy_ | fucking dogooders |
| 23:29.33 | DrodoEmpire | [20:25] == mode/#sporewiki [+o Technobliterator] by ChanServ [20:25] <DrodoEmpire> Character shields and movie aimbot are the two most powerful weapons of war [20:26] <DrodoEmpire> And dumb, miraculous luck is always handy [20:26] <Monet> Chris Pine's Captain Kirk and his infinite well of dumb luck. [20:27] <DrodoEmpire> lol [20:28] <@Cyrannian> It irks me that in one of the future timelines in STO, both the Klingons and the Ro |
| 23:29.41 | Monet | The last time those three worked together the Dominion were the great threat - and even then the alliance had an issue with the Tal'Shiar. |
| 23:29.50 | Cyrannian | Ugh turns out that the Klingons canonically joined the Feds in the 26th century according to Enterprise |
| 23:30.18 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy_: Klingons dindu nuffin |
| 23:31.16 | Monet | Well...Klingons I guess they seem ot vary depending on whose chancellor. |
| 23:31.27 | Charles_Murray | Real diplomacy has very little to do with speaking softly or being willing to talk, but with the underlying mechanics and systems of the world and the relationships between them. They're not good or bad, they're just there. |
| 23:31.50 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 23:32.18 | DrodoEmpire | But the writers think that's EEEEEEEVIL and manipulative <.< |
| 23:33.58 | Charles_Murray | Test |
| 23:34.22 | Technobliterator | you fail |
| 23:34.25 | Technobliterator | YOU FAIIIIIIIL |
| 23:34.35 | Technobliterator | nah you're here |
| 23:34.35 | Technobliterator | hi |
| 23:34.43 | Charles_Murray | I have brought disonuru on my faimry |
| 23:35.06 | Charles_Murray | Is a shamefur disrpray |
| 23:35.54 | DrodoEmpire | thatsracist.gif |
| 23:37.03 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 23:37.47 | Charles_Murray | So I don't know, I'm very much used to approaching those systems in a value-neutral way in order to understand and engage with them academically |
| 23:39.07 | Charles_Murray | So to see value-tinted depictions of politics in media is a bit odd |
| 23:39.34 | Monet | Its everywhere though |
| 23:40.12 | Monet | I find House of Cards is one of the few more true-to-life portrayals but even that has its exaggerations |
| 23:42.59 | Charles_Murray | Not really o.o |
| 23:43.25 | Monet | Not even what Frank did to Zoe in the subway? |
| 23:43.39 | Charles_Murray | Wat |
| 23:43.46 | Charles_Murray | No, I mean that it's not true to life at all |
| 23:44.04 | Charles_Murray | It's a value-tinted interpretation of politics, just like Star Trek, though in the other direction |
| 23:44.46 | Monet | House of Cards is a lot more machiavellian fro mwhat I understand. |
| 23:45.35 | Charles_Murray | It postulates that the successful political man is a machiavellian by definition, and has a very brutal understanding of how these systems (dubbed "power") works |
| 23:46.05 | Charles_Murray | It's fantasy, really |
| 23:47.13 | Charles_Murray | While the Machiavellian himself is a caricature, a character which lives in the imagination, in fiction, and in our interpretations of world systems and worldly characters |
| 23:47.57 | Monet | He does get away with a lot of crap |
| 23:48.22 | Monet | Some stuff just seems like somehow it was in his favour all along. |
| 23:48.26 | Charles_Murray | People of power are usually just people behind it all, and have to create a character around themselves |
| 23:49.52 | Monet | Okay I mis-spoke |
| 23:51.00 | Monet | Frank's power does come off as something of an addiction |
| 23:52.29 | Monet | He wants power but doesn't have much idea how to exercise that power. |
| 23:54.34 | Charles_Murray | Right; What I'm saying is that that's a trope, a trope that people use to understand their politicians and other personalities, but it doesn't actually apply to real people; it's too simple, too convenient. |
| 23:54.44 | Charles_Murray | Sometimes it's used accusingly, other times admiringly. |
| 23:55.14 | Monet | SO rather than an accurate portrayal, Frank's a stereotype of the greedy bastard |
| 23:55.34 | Monet | He wants power and control but no idea why, he just does. |
| 23:56.05 | Charles_Murray | Well, the stereotype of the ambitious, power-hungry machiavellian |
| 23:56.25 | Charles_Murray | Which is a stereotype that some use to understand Hillary Clinton IRL, for example |
| 23:59.03 | Monet | It might be easier to list the politicians that the stereotype isn't applied to. |
| 23:59.07 | DrodoEmpire | Well, no, *she* is clearly a reptilian |
| 23:59.18 | DrodoEmpire | :') |
| 23:59.21 | Charles_Murray | lol |
