| 13:54.41 | *** join/#sporewiki infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 13:54.41 | *** topic/#sporewiki is SporeWiki! http://spore.wikia.com || Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23sporewiki/ || Collaborative Universes: Sci-Fi http://tinyurl.com/3ddvp7q Fantasy http://tinyurl.com/p9qau7l || Roleplay subchannels: #sporewiki-rp1 and #sporewiki-rp2 || Titanpad: https://titanpad.com/ |
| 13:54.42 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 14:04.10 | Wormy_ | There are more translations |
| 14:04.12 | Wormy_ | It tells a story of a wolf-killer, a resident of a stonehouse in a village, whose ancestors were conscientious shepherds whose sheep were well fed and carefully guarded against attack by ferocious enemies and whose ancestors 1,200,000 years before the first earth man, in a space ship made with tungsten and seven iridium motors and using light as a source of power, started a long journey across interstellar space, searching for a star |
| 14:04.33 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:04.41 | Wormy_ | Ages ago, there were conscientious shepherds whose sheep were well tended and carefully protected against attack by their rapacious enemies. Twelve hundred thousand years ago there appeared before these first earthmen, at night, a spaceship powered by seven stone and iridium electric motors. It had originally been launched on its long trip into stellar space in the search for neighboring stars that might have planets revolving about t |
| 14:05.11 | Wormy_ | and on which planets a new race of intelligent humanity might propagate itself and rejoice for life, without fear of attack by other intelligent beings from interstellar space. |
| 14:05.26 | DrodoEmpire | That's all his name? |
| 14:05.31 | DrodoEmpire | Translated? |
| 14:07.59 | Wormy_ | Apparently |
| 14:08.04 | Hachiman | Those are two different interpretations on what his names *could* mean |
| 14:08.09 | Wormy_ | Yeah |
| 14:08.10 | Hachiman | But are not direct translations |
| 14:09.03 | DrodoEmpire | Right, right |
| 14:15.05 | *** join/#sporewiki Ghelae (1f32d341@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.50.211.65) |
| 14:15.05 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 14:15.09 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 14:16.12 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 14:17.30 | Treebeard_ | Hello |
| 14:28.01 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapPlayer (badaf85e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.218.248.94) |
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| 15:13.18 | *** join/#sporewiki SquanderedSon (bcdfbb9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.223.187.154) |
| 15:13.28 | Treebeard_ | Hello |
| 15:13.34 | SquanderedSon | Hey hows it going |
| 15:14.09 | Treebeard_ | Good, thanks |
| 15:14.28 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 15:14.36 | DrodoEmpire | New to the wiki? |
| 15:15.11 | SquanderedSon | Yeah, just thought I'd join the IRC, always been a fan of the fiction, so cheers to all for producing such good content ;) |
| 15:15.26 | DrodoEmpire | Ah, thanks |
| 15:16.03 | DrodoEmpire | Bit of a slow day, today. :p |
| 15:17.08 | SquanderedSon | No problem, doesn't bother me. Are all of you content producers here? |
| 15:17.46 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, with maybe one or two exceptions |
| 15:17.51 | DrodoEmpire | We don't get fans often. XD |
| 15:18.21 | Wormy_ | Hello |
| 15:18.31 | SquanderedSon | Ah I see, it's a shame, I'm sure alot of people read it though. I stumbled upon it really. |
| 15:18.38 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh |
| 15:19.07 | DrodoEmpire | Well I don't think its quite that we don't have fans, its that the fictionverse is accessible enough that most that are interested actually join up and become a writer themselves |
| 15:19.27 | DrodoEmpire | Which you're free to do if you're interested :D |
| 15:20.08 | SquanderedSon | Ah well, I'd be interested, wouldn't want to ruin anything though. So I think I'll sit out for now lol |
| 15:20.41 | DrodoEmpire | You wouldn't ruin anything- the fiction universe is far from a fragile ecosystem |
| 15:20.47 | DrodoEmpire | But its your choice |
| 15:21.39 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy_: You've heard about Hello Games settling that NMS lawsuit, right? |
| 15:21.52 | DrodoEmpire | The one with the television company named "Sky" :p |
| 15:22.16 | SquanderedSon | yeah I'll give it a thought |
| 15:24.54 | Wormy_ | DrodoEmpire: Yeah I thought it was ridiculous. Then I remembered Sky is owned by Murdoch |
| 15:25.06 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 15:25.21 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah it was pretty well the definition of a frivolous lawsuit |
| 15:26.13 | Wormy_ | They might own "Sky" but its stupid that they can file lawsuits against products with "Sky" in it |
| 15:26.25 | Wormy_ | Not the first time |
| 15:26.48 | Tek0516 | Wait, they really own the word "Sky"? O.o |
| 15:26.52 | Wormy_ | They took on Microsoft, as Onedrive was going to be called "Skydrive" |
| 15:26.59 | Technobliterator | wut |
| 15:27.21 | Treebeard_ | SquanderedSon: You could try creating fiction outside of the established universe, and add it later. |
| 15:27.45 | Wormy_ | Sky TV package is overated and expensive anyway |
| 15:28.27 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah... |
| 15:28.46 | SquanderedSon | Oh ok, sounds good. I just wouldn't want to irritate or mess up anything for already established fictions. |
| 15:30.40 | DrodoEmpire | Its not an issue about irritation. >.< Feel free to write- if you make a small mistake or something we'll let you know and help to fix it |
| 15:32.26 | SquanderedSon | ok, I'll give it some thought. |
| 15:40.58 | *** join/#sporewiki Imperios (~Imperios@95.140.92.42) |
| 15:41.05 | Imperios | Hi |
| 15:41.15 | Imperios | Hachiman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Ts9zQ4tqo Demon spaceships |
| 15:41.20 | Imperios | Not sure if awesome or awful |
| 15:41.33 | Hachiman | What the fuck |
| 15:42.43 | Imperios | Well there were demon mechas |
| 15:42.44 | Hachiman | Are they getting attacked by the Black Legion or something |
| 15:42.54 | Imperios | Burning Legion |
| 15:42.56 | Imperios | So essentially yes |
| 15:43.10 | Imperios | There were demon mechas in BC |
| 15:43.17 | Hachiman | Did Gul'dan summon Abaddon the Armless to Azeroth |
| 15:45.18 | Imperios | Gul'dan drank demon blood to become fast, flew to the Eye of Terror and asked for help |
| 15:45.34 | Imperios | Fast because demon blood turned him red |
| 15:46.04 | Hachiman | hur |
| 15:57.01 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 16:01.49 | *** join/#sporewiki SquanderedSon (bcdfbb9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.223.187.154) |
| 16:03.55 | Treebeard_ | Hello Monet |
| 16:04.03 | Monet | hello |
| 16:04.37 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 16:05.10 | Hachiman | Treebeard: How's your Fantasyverse stuff coming along? |
| 16:07.36 | Treebeard_ | I haven't made that much progress yet - I wanted to let my ideas for that develop for a while, and also to get some of my current Fiction work out of the way. |
| 16:07.45 | Hachiman | Ah fair enough |
| 16:07.59 | Treebeard_ | bbl |
| 16:17.23 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (bcddaf46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.221.175.70) |
| 16:17.40 | OluapPlayer | spu |
| 16:18.06 | Xho | meow |
| 16:19.23 | Xho | Fiction:Suppercarier |
| 16:19.32 | Xho | time to ruin that page with beautiful Kicathian technology |
| 16:19.34 | Xho | RUIN IT |
| 16:20.41 | OluapPlayer | receive the shrekening |
| 16:20.54 | Xho | Now I imagine Kithworto in green armour |
| 16:21.10 | Xho | Kit Santo everywhere |
| 16:21.12 | Hachiman | Onion powers |
| 16:21.31 | Xho | Santo - spice and onions Santorakh is Indian confirmed |
| 16:21.33 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:459d:4726:ea9e:70ee) |
| 16:21.33 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 16:21.46 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 16:22.24 | Monet | Xho: If it's big and roomy it's gine. If it has a cubic buttload of guns then it's not a supercarrier. |
| 16:22.35 | Xho | As much as I like that page, calling the Supercarrier a French design is a really bold claim |
| 16:22.38 | Monet | it's fine* |
| 16:23.03 | Xho | Supercarriers have been in existence hundreds of millennia before Earth even invented space travel |
| 16:23.15 | Xho | Heck billions of years |
| 16:23.46 | DrodoEmpire | Well the actual modern doctrine, and what would be considered in modern times a proper supercarrier is a French concept |
| 16:24.25 | Xho | It doesn't matter so much to the Kicath since 'Supercarrier' is translated to '85840' |
| 16:24.34 | DrodoEmpire | Applying such an idea to the past, while *possible*, is problematic |
| 16:24.59 | Monet | Yeah. Any other close concept tends to be heavily armed, armoured and capable of something other than ferrying a huge amound of military equipment around. |
| 16:25.25 | Xho | Not actually sure where to put the Kicathian Supercarrier |
| 16:25.32 | Xho | It's pre-France but how far back |
| 16:25.58 | DrodoEmpire | Its like saying medieval knights were "the tanks" of the medieval army- kind-of, but not really |
| 16:26.18 | Xho | Could be anywhere between 172,616 BC and 2803 AD as far as anyone in the Gigaquadrant is aware |
| 16:26.58 | Xho | I just don't like the fact it's all of a sudden a fiction specific thing when ships have been called Supercarriers in fiction since 2009 |
| 16:27.19 | Xho | All of a sudden I have to owe nomenclature to something that's now not universal |
| 16:27.49 | Monet | France - Copyright's a bitch ain't it? |
| 16:28.01 | DrodoEmpire | Its how terminology evolves, I suppose |
| 16:28.10 | Xho | It's a bit like saying "Supersoldier" and then the Kicath pioneering modern age supersoldiers, no one would actually let me do that though |
| 16:28.11 | Ghelae | I once considered that, if people put a load of pre-Fraconia supercarriers on that page, the Francocentric tone would seem less reasonable. |
| 16:28.23 | Ghelae | pre-Fraconica* |
| 16:28.46 | DrodoEmpire | Well again, the French made the modern doctrine and designs :p |
| 16:29.28 | DrodoEmpire | Same as the British made the dreadnaught battleships, and solidified the whole battleship doctrine despite similar ships existing in the past |
| 16:29.35 | Xho | So what exactly do I do now when the Congregation officially designated their ships as supercarriers |
| 16:29.47 | Xho | Or the Dominion for that matter |
| 16:29.59 | DrodoEmpire | Well how many? Supercarriers are logistical ships first and foremost |
| 16:30.09 | DrodoEmpire | Not battleships |
| 16:30.24 | Xho | It's the Congregation and Dominion |
| 16:30.29 | Xho | think numbers |
| 16:30.35 | Monet | I suppose the French doctrone could be "an extremely large logsitics ship used for the purposes of power projection, equipped to supply a campaign" |
| 16:30.51 | DrodoEmpire | Right, they probably have too many such ships to count |
| 16:31.10 | Xho | Whilst I don't mind it being a staple of French space tech, calling it THE French design is a bit too much if you ask me |
| 16:31.21 | Monet | Previous iterations of supercarrier tend to have a bit mire gun than what French doctrine asks for. |
| 16:31.30 | DrodoEmpire | Its not though- the modern doctrine is |
| 16:31.44 | DrodoEmpire | Similar ships existed in the past, using similar doctrines, and that's fine |
| 16:32.03 | DrodoEmpire | But the French made what may now be considered the modern design and doctrine for a lot of nations |
| 16:32.06 | Hachiman | Sorry, modern doctrine for *who*? Everyone, or *just* France? |
| 16:32.10 | Xho | If the page said 'most commonly associated with and revolutionised in modern ages by the French' |
| 16:32.17 | Xho | Then I'd be alright with it |
| 16:32.36 | DrodoEmpire | Modern doctrine by nations such as France, the DI, the Drodo, etc. |
| 16:32.48 | Ghelae | Perhaps it would be good to write about the previous doctine? |
| 16:32.48 | Hachiman | Personally I don't like this idea that if a nation made a supercarrier and it does not abide by the doctrine imposed by the French, then it's not a supercarrier |
| 16:32.50 | Xho | Thing is, I don't like the idea of a fiction suddenly claiming a name to something that has existed on the wiki years before it began |
| 16:33.01 | DrodoEmpire | But that's not what is being said there |
| 16:33.05 | Monet | The page just needs a little reqording is all |
| 16:33.12 | Xho | What Monet said |
| 16:33.12 | Monet | rewording* |
| 16:33.15 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway, take it up with Charles |
| 16:33.22 | DrodoEmpire | He'll have more to say and he made the page |
| 16:33.37 | DrodoEmpire | I think you've got it misunderstood, but I could be wrong |
| 16:33.41 | Xho | I think the wording's a bit too absolute and if it was reworded to say that the French have made the modern ideals of the Supercarrier, then that's good |
| 16:33.51 | DrodoEmpire | Fair enough |
| 16:33.56 | Xho | But the wording makes it look like the French invented the whole thing |
| 16:34.35 | Xho | It's probably the Francocentric theme of it that's a little off, Supercarriers on a whole are wiki-wide |
| 16:34.45 | Xho | No problem of it being attributed to the French in modern times though |
| 16:34.53 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 16:35.14 | Xho | It needs to be neutral as a page but with the clear note that the French have defined the modern Supercarrier as it is |
| 16:35.20 | Xho | There we go I got it out diplomatically |
| 16:35.22 | Xho | points for xho |
| 16:35.34 | DrodoEmpire | Hm, there could be an effort to write a history of their use |
| 16:36.01 | DrodoEmpire | Earliest known designs, up to the modern day, and so o |
| 16:36.02 | DrodoEmpire | *on |
| 16:36.44 | Xho | Back to the Kicathian Supercarrier I'm a little apprehensive on a construction date for it |
| 16:36.54 | Xho | I could say Pre-35,000 BC but bleh |
| 16:38.11 | Xho | Also I'm not actually sure whether it qualifies as a Supercarrier and not a megaconstruct |
| 16:38.35 | Xho | The roles it performs is similar to what is described on the page but the sheer size of it might put it into a different class altogether |
| 16:38.46 | DrodoEmpire | I dunno if there's an upper limit |
| 16:38.57 | DrodoEmpire | It could just be the gigaquadrant's largest supercarrier |
| 16:39.18 | Xho | There are larger supercarriers than that, not by the Kicath though |
| 16:39.43 | Xho | It certainly fits the bill for power projection though |
| 16:47.18 | OluapPlayer | Monet: A new DF release came out yesterday |
| 16:47.23 | OluapPlayer | It introduced weapon and armor damage |
| 16:47.38 | Monet | As if weapons and arour weren't hard enough to get. |
| 16:48.01 | OluapPlayer | Yes. Now the goblin can hit you hard enough to destroy your armor |
| 16:48.14 | OluapPlayer | But I think equipment repair is in the works next |
| 16:49.00 | Xho | Well at least it ain't a Deathclaw |
| 16:49.12 | Xho | The bastards ignore armour resistance |
| 16:50.09 | OluapPlayer | I've also learned how to mod new creatures into the game |
| 16:50.29 | Monet | I feel bad for this guy http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/258210114364864009/0C0DF48DD6B80250CE4995A1CEFE4CD76A25DA56/ |
| 16:50.39 | Xho | Weredeathclaw pls |
| 16:50.54 | OluapPlayer | Worse things than deathclaws exist in the game already |
| 16:51.21 | Xho | Clawdeaths |
| 16:51.22 | Xho | :v |
| 16:52.02 | Hachiman | Try a Bronze Colossus |
| 16:52.37 | Xho | I just think of oily Turkish men |
| 16:52.40 | Xho | This is bad |
| 16:53.01 | OluapPlayer | Bronze colossi are essentially near-indestructible golems |
| 16:54.16 | Monet | ALso deemuns |
| 16:54.18 | Xho | Ndrhthryr is C |
| 16:54.31 | OluapPlayer | Nd would stand at the size of their feet |
| 16:54.49 | Xho | Ndrhthryr is c |
| 16:56.01 | Monet | Not sure what the strengest wasteland story I have is |
| 16:56.55 | Xho | So I'm looking at the Giant Sperm Whale |
| 16:56.55 | Monet | Possibly this lab that was locked down was WWIII broke out. The director locked all his staff in their research facility promising ot let them out when the project was complete. |
| 16:56.56 | Xho | dat big |
| 16:57.38 | Monet | When I arrived in the lab everyone was either dead or a feral ghoul and the director had become feral fro mradiation poisoning. |
| 16:57.50 | Monet | He also ended up locking himself in his office for aroudn 200 years. |
| 17:01.02 | Monet | Either that or finding a 200 year old interview tape for one of the vault overseers. |
| 17:03.09 | The_Randomness | DrodoEmpire: I got an idea how the Federation for the collabverse might've come around, I put my ramblings in the chat on the pad |
| 17:03.47 | Monet | The candidate was so...anti-establishment (I think he was homeless) when confronted with the "do not injest" warning on the back of a packet of cleaning agent his brai nthought "don't tell me what to do!" |
| 17:04.04 | DrodoEmpire | Okay |
| 17:04.25 | Monet | And when given the job his repsonse was "I'm not waring a tie, or pants" |
| 17:07.28 | Monet | I have yet to encounter a vault as...peculiar as Vault Gary. |
| 17:14.50 | Xho | GARY |
| 17:18.16 | Wormy_ | Google Translate doesn't work all that well http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:212858#5 |
| 17:19.29 | DrodoEmpire | bbl |
| 17:24.32 | Xho | So Ramesses II had 48-50 sons and 40-53 daughters |
| 17:24.34 | Xho | guy got around |
| 17:25.05 | Xho | How he lived to ~90 years old is pretty hardcore considering |
| 17:25.35 | Hachiman | You'd think he'd have died of a disease or something beforehand |
| 17:26.08 | Xho | Super genes |
| 17:28.52 | Xho | He actually outlived most of his children |
| 17:43.40 | *** join/#sporewiki DanzaDelMondo (~Imperios@95.140.92.42) |
| 17:45.58 | Hachiman | Hi Imp |
| 17:56.07 | DanzaDelMondo | iH |
| 18:00.43 | Monet | hi |
| 18:04.07 | Xho | Hachiman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M34OyoBsXUk oh dear |
| 18:06.48 | Hachiman | "straight fire, just like my dead dog in the fireplace" |
| 18:11.19 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (adfc264b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.252.38.75) |
| 18:12.25 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 18:22.11 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (32b8eef8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.184.238.248) |
| 18:24.06 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 18:24.45 | Charles_Murray | Hey |
| 18:26.18 | Monet | Hello |
| 18:28.17 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 18:42.10 | DanzaDelMondo | http://i.imgur.com/md01Fy1.png |
| 19:12.52 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (adfc264b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.252.38.75) |
| 19:27.15 | Hachiman | So a British guy has been arrested on the charge of staging a failed assassination on Donald Trump |
| 19:38.24 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (uid149600@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nfcyfrcohabwphrc) |
| 19:40.06 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:40.56 | DrodoEmpire | Actually I'm quite glad- not because I support Trump, but because I'm against blatant political violence of any stripe. :p |
| 19:41.17 | Hachiman | Bit extreme considering we just had an MP assassinated |
| 19:41.34 | DrodoEmpire | What is extreme? |
| 19:41.42 | Hachiman | What Monet said |
| 19:41.45 | DrodoEmpire | Ah |
| 19:41.59 | DrodoEmpire | I have to agree |
| 19:42.16 | Hachiman | Trump is a dickbag for sure but the assassination of Jo Cox has kind of opened my eyes somewhat |
| 19:43.02 | Monet | America's no stranger to presidents or candidates facing assassination. |
| 19:43.12 | Hachiman | Doesn't mean it's right for them to do so |
| 19:43.19 | DrodoEmpire | That desn't make it right |
| 19:43.21 | DrodoEmpire | *doesn't |
| 19:43.24 | Hachiman | America's also no stranger to school shootings |
| 19:43.37 | Monet | I was kind of being sarcastic. |
| 19:43.47 | DrodoEmpire | Right. |
| 19:44.19 | Hachiman | Also the assassin was an idiot; his plan relied on him strong-arming a gun from an officer's holster so he could deliver a shot and inevitably get attention for style points rather than actually just going out and buying a gun |
| 19:44.59 | DrodoEmpire | Right, he was an attention-seeking imbecile |
| 19:46.54 | Charles_Murray | Got his moves from the Matrix |
| 19:50.22 | Monet | So failure ny stupidity |
| 20:04.06 | DanzaDelMondo | Hachiman: http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1466538303932.png |
| 20:04.57 | Hachiman | hur |
| 20:06.16 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
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| 20:07.15 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapPlayer] by ChanServ |
| 20:07.29 | Wormy_ | Just went on a 9 mile run, ther heat this evening. Also managed to swallow flies |
| 20:07.41 | Wormy_ | :summer intensifies: |
| 20:07.57 | Wormy_ | bloody nettles too |
| 20:08.10 | DrodoEmpire | Ouch |
| 20:11.17 | Wormy_ | Can't believe this is a thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_Inn#World_Nettle_Eating_Championship |
| 20:11.40 | Wormy_ | UK has some eccentric festivals |
| 20:12.49 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 20:14.11 | Wormy_ | had the opportunity to have been to some |
| 20:14.39 | Wormy_ | I also went to La Tomatina in Spain, the tomato throwing festival |
| 20:19.41 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~The_Rando@nat-portal-160-94-47-18.uofm.wireless.umn.edu) |
| 20:19.41 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 20:20.16 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 20:20.44 | *** join/#sporewiki AdmiralPanda (65b18fa9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.177.143.169) |
| 20:20.56 | AdmiralPanda | I don't like Australian winters |
| 20:21.01 | AdmiralPanda | it's so dark in the morning |
| 20:21.32 | The_Randomness | :P |
| 20:22.14 | Wormy_ | I love the light this time in the Northern hemisphere. Light until 23:00, light again at 3 in the morning |
| 20:22.31 | Monet | Ok eah it's the summer solstice tonight. |
| 20:22.41 | Monet | oh yeah* |
| 20:22.57 | Wormy_ | One could stay up most of the night pub crawling while its still light |
| 20:23.36 | The_Randomness | DrodoEmpire Wormy_ Ghel Charles_Murray: I'll be on the collabverse pad for the next hour and a half or so if you guys want to do stuff. |
| 20:24.37 | Wormy_ | I'm too tired, just got back from a long run and I still need dinner |
| 20:24.44 | The_Randomness | Ok |
| 20:25.17 | Wormy_ | Also a relative is going to practise her hypnosis on me in a bit |
| 20:27.36 | Xho | OluapPlayer: You got any ideas for moves BLU Nnnngh could pull off in a fight |
| 20:27.41 | Xho | Other than the ol' neck snap |
| 20:28.08 | OluapPlayer | Punch and kick I guess |
| 20:28.12 | Xho | gg |
| 20:37.38 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
| 20:41.53 | *** join/#sporewiki dino82_ (d8dd47aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.221.71.170) |
| 20:42.06 | dino82_ | hi |
| 20:44.08 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 20:44.13 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 21:00.17 | Hachiman | Almost 10pm and it's like an evening sky out what the fuck |
| 21:00.37 | Wormy_ | Love it this time of year |
| 21:01.05 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 21:02.48 | Xho | It's pitch black where I am |
| 21:02.52 | Xho | dafuq up wit u peepl |
| 21:03.03 | Wormy_ | Southern smog# |
| 21:14.22 | Charles_Murray | Hey guys, I've been filled in on the earlier discussion about supercarriers. I'm able to discuss that now if you guys are available |
| 21:16.09 | Charles_Murray | Xho DrodoEmpire Monet Wormy_ Ghel Hachiman |
| 21:16.18 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, I'm listening |
| 21:16.23 | Xho | dksfhjk |
| 21:19.18 | Charles_Murray | Or is this a bad time? |
| 21:21.15 | Xho | No not really |
| 21:21.46 | Charles_Murray | Alright, so what's up? |
| 21:22.53 | Hachiman | I'll let Xho do the talking since he has a clearer view of the issue |
| 21:23.27 | Xho | Right well |
| 21:23.53 | Xho | As much as I accept the fact that France has defined the Supercarrier in the modern age, the term Supercarrier's existed in the Gigaquadrant long beforehand |
| 21:24.21 | Xho | I think the wording of the page should be changed to reflect that France redefined and popularised the Supercarrier as it is now rather than what the page describes currently |
| 21:24.43 | Xho | It's just a skewed definition on a term that's wiki wide and not particularly centered on one fiction |
| 21:26.22 | Charles_Murray | That makes a lot of sense, and I agree; It's not like France invented the term 'supercarrier,' or that it hasn't been used on the wiki before |
| 21:27.19 | Hachiman | Or invented the first supercarrier either |
| 21:27.48 | Charles_Murray | That's a bit more foggy and depends on the definition you use, but we'll get to that I hope |
| 21:28.01 | Charles_Murray | The NCR/URC, for example, just reintroduced a 9.5 km long ship which they refer to as a command ship and a supercarrier |
| 21:28.15 | Charles_Murray | And I understand that the Kicath themselves have been using the term for a really long time |
| 21:28.27 | Charles_Murray | What characteristics do Kicathian supercarriers have? |
| 21:28.41 | AdmiralPanda | the issue with putting "super" in front of a category is what defines it as being super :P |
| 21:28.53 | Xho | Well, the Kicathian term for Supercarrier is a little distorted |
| 21:29.03 | DrodoEmpire | They're enormous instruments of power-projection, that's your answer AdmiralPanda |
| 21:29.04 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 21:29.22 | AdmiralPanda | so basically giant metal phallusi, got it :P |
| 21:29.30 | Charles_Murray | They carry supplies and are really big |
| 21:29.34 | Hachiman | Now I don't like this implication that the French invented the "true" supercarrier |
| 21:29.38 | Xho | Whilst it has all of the functions as the page describes the Kicath are always adding extra combat advantages on to it because they're all about scaring people with colossal and terrifying weapons |
| 21:29.43 | Hachiman | Just an interpretation of a supercarrier |
| 21:30.39 | Charles_Murray | Rite, that makes a lot of sense |
| 21:30.41 | Xho | But their size class sort of fits into the Supercarrier term although their size classes are somewhat different |
| 21:30.53 | Hachiman | To me it sounds like "all supercarriers that came before do not abide by the doctrine for French supercarriers, thus there were no actual supercarriers before France did it, fuck you honhon" |
| 21:31.18 | Charles_Murray | Hachiman : That's not quite the intention, but I understand that it can come across that way |
| 21:31.29 | Charles_Murray | Hm |
| 21:31.44 | Xho | For example the Kicath constructed a 154 km long Dreadnought just to scare the living shit out of anyone who's dumb enough to shoot at them in their home space |
| 21:32.02 | Charles_Murray | lol, sounds very much in character |
| 21:32.03 | Xho | Wasn't their most cost effective project but it came into use during the Dissension |
| 21:32.49 | Xho | To be honest the Kicath's entire naval program is one massively inefficient organisation |
| 21:33.29 | Charles_Murray | The thing is that naval terminology when it comes to ship sizes, ship capabilities, doctrine, etc, is actually quite a bit tricky. IRL, nobody agrees on what a cruiser is, or how big a frigate is, or what is the difference between a patrol boat and a destroyer, or a destroyer and a cruiser |
| 21:33.57 | Xho | That's sort why the Kicath call their most notable Supercarrier a 85840-00780-5621 instead |
| 21:34.14 | Charles_Murray | These terms change depending on which navy is using them, during which time period, and are influenced by such factors as the capabilities which are available at the time, the theaters of war involved, the enemies which are being fought, their capabilities, etc |
| 21:34.14 | Xho | Mainly because the Kicath have no real imagination when it comes to names so they just label it with long numbers |
| 21:34.56 | Charles_Murray | So, for example, what the US refers to as a frigate might be a destroyer in another navy. What might be a destroyer to the French navy might by a cruiser to the British navy |
| 21:35.20 | Charles_Murray | These terms don't have concrete definitions, but the actual crafts they refer to do |
| 21:36.14 | Charles_Murray | And in order to actually be able to make meaningful (read: sane) comparisons between navies and their capacities, the terms of the most prolific or vocal power are used as appropriate for that context |
| 21:36.49 | Charles_Murray | So in the fictionverse, it actually makes perfect sense that the Kicath and the French both field supercarriers, and they look nothing alike and don't have the same capabilities or purpose |
| 21:37.11 | Hachiman | Right |
| 21:37.56 | Charles_Murray | And if they were to examine each other's navies, the French might refer to the Kicath's supercarriers as Super Star Dreadnaughts (given that they've taken to using the Cyrannian terminology), and the Kicath would refer to French supercarriers by some other name |
| 21:38.14 | Hachiman | Still, cannot help but feel that the "supercarrier-like starships" label applied to pre-French supercarrier development comes off as really bold |
| 21:38.30 | Charles_Murray | Even for the countries that field French-style supercarriers, there is disagreement about what to call them |
| 21:38.49 | Charles_Murray | The TIAF refer to theirs as logistics dreadnoughts |
| 21:39.19 | Hachiman | I mean, like you said, the naval terms differ with a lot of variables involved; so what makes France the universal authority on what classifies as a supercarrier or not |
| 21:39.57 | Charles_Murray | Because the page isn't about supercarriers, meaning the vast use of the term across all navies, but about a very narrow class of ship that the French did invent |
| 21:40.10 | Charles_Murray | And thus they named it something they thought was appropriate |
| 21:40.18 | DrodoEmpire | Should it be broader, though? |
| 21:40.26 | DrodoEmpire | I think that's Xho and Hachi's argument. |
| 21:40.42 | Charles_Murray | We could make a page about Star Dreadnoughts, which I would most definitely support |
| 21:41.03 | Charles_Murray | Since the French tend to think of supercarriers as a class of Star Dreadnought, not a class of carrier |
| 21:41.19 | Monet | It's a bit out-of-universe bot most ships the size of French supercarriers - even command ships - tend to be very heavily armed. |
| 21:42.13 | Monet | So "supercarrier like ships" refers to historical vessels that functioned like the French supercarriers. |
| 21:42.28 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 21:43.28 | DanzaDelMondo | Monet: Imagine if Harley Quinn was played by Miley Cyrus |
| 21:43.31 | Hachiman | So because a nation's version of a supercarrier may be equipped with weaponry automatically declassifies it from being a supercarrier and makes the nation's terminology wrong because a human nation has more voice? |
| 21:43.53 | DanzaDelMondo | She'd fit perfectly |
| 21:44.05 | Charles_Murray | Not at all, they can absolutely use whatever terminology they like |
| 21:44.15 | Monet | I'm multitasking so I might not contribute much |
| 21:44.33 | Charles_Murray | And it wouldn't be any more or any less of a "true supercarrier" (whatever that means) than the French kind |
| 21:44.50 | DanzaDelMondo | Hachiman: I think the concept of the supercarrier is a human idea, so humies call whatever looks vaguely like a supercarrier supercarrier |
| 21:44.54 | Charles_Murray | But what is true is that it's not an intergalactic supercarrier of the French kind |
| 21:45.11 | Xho | Basically we should generalise the page to some degree |
| 21:45.32 | Hachiman | Either that or make it far more specific that this only applies to the *French* interpretation of a supercarrier |
| 21:45.34 | Xho | Dunno what degree, but I'm too tired to figure that out |
| 21:45.50 | DanzaDelMondo | I personally consider most of our fiction to be seen through human lens |
| 21:46.06 | DrodoEmpire | I wonder why |
| 21:46.08 | DrodoEmpire | <.< |
| 21:46.10 | DrodoEmpire | >.> |
| 21:46.40 | DanzaDelMondo | As in, the names and terms we see are not actual alien names and terms until otherwise stated, but rather in-universe human translations and approximations |
| 21:46.42 | Charles_Murray | lul, though that's not something that should be pushed on other writers on the wiki if they don't agree with it |
| 21:46.56 | DanzaDelMondo | I use that principle for some of my fiction at least |
| 21:47.26 | Xho | Well the Agent nomenclature was more than likely made by humans |
| 21:47.34 | Xho | Considering the Greek Alphabet |
| 21:47.44 | Charles_Murray | Xho Hachiman : Given how it's currently worded, the page is currently written with that interpretation in mind |
| 21:47.45 | Xho | It's better than calling Agent Nu as Agent 13 I guess |
| 21:47.48 | Monet | Draconid heavy cruisers might look to the French more like battleships. |
| 21:48.06 | Hachiman | But why the focus on what the French think |
| 21:48.15 | DanzaDelMondo | Because it's Baguette's idea |
| 21:48.26 | DanzaDelMondo | As in the out-of-universe Baguette |
| 21:48.31 | DanzaDelMondo | Baguette came up with the concept |
| 21:48.34 | DanzaDelMondo | Baguette wrote about it |
| 21:48.42 | DanzaDelMondo | written from the persepctive of in-universe baguettes |
| 21:48.43 | Hachiman | Baguette did not come up with the concept of supercarriers hur |
| 21:48.46 | Xho | That's kind of where we're at an impasse though |
| 21:48.51 | DanzaDelMondo | Did he? |
| 21:48.53 | DanzaDelMondo | I don't remember |
| 21:49.04 | dino82_ | bbl |
| 21:49.10 | DanzaDelMondo | I thought that out-of-universe at least he was among the first to have come up with it |
| 21:49.22 | Charles_Murray | I didn't come up with the term supercarrier, definitely |
| 21:49.27 | Xho | Well I've been using the term Supercarriers during War of Ages days |
| 21:49.40 | Xho | Back when the Xhodocto had ships and weren't gods |
| 21:49.44 | Hachiman | That is like saying the first person who used the term "knight" in the Fantasyverse came up with the concept of knights in the setting in general |
| 21:49.45 | Xho | Or were gods but used ships I dunno |
| 21:49.46 | Charles_Murray | But the actual type of ship I call supercarriers is entirely new |
| 21:50.00 | Charles_Murray | Which is why it has its own page |
| 21:50.23 | Xho | Well the decision is to either generalise the page or alter the page so that it defines French Supercarriers only |
| 21:50.27 | Hachiman | So it's less of a community thing and more of a subjective user perception thing |
| 21:50.29 | Wormy_ | Charles_Murray, Hachiman: I actually think it is possible for the French to create a paradigm that defines what Supercarriers are (as separate to Dreadnoughts), as actors in the intergalactic community. But yes, its a unclear definition either way the page should probably mark the distinction |
| 21:51.12 | Charles_Murray | I think that's what they've done, yes, but that doesn't mean that other actors all over a sudden aren't using supercarriers anymore |
| 21:51.15 | Hachiman | "You're free to call your ship a supercarrier, but I'm not going to recognize it as that thus it has no place on the page for supercarriers" |
| 21:51.37 | Hachiman | That's the impression I am getting right now |
| 21:51.52 | DanzaDelMondo | Could separate the page |
| 21:52.05 | DanzaDelMondo | "Supercarriers as defined by baguettes and other monkey people" |
| 21:52.11 | DanzaDelMondo | "Supercarriers as defined by raptor people" |
| 21:52.17 | Xho | I'm still on my first point |
| 21:52.17 | Charles_Murray | Er, no; You're free to call your ship whatever you like and give it whatever characteristics you like. If you call it something completely different, but it fits the French definition of a supercarrier, it belongs on the page |
| 21:52.20 | Wormy_ | And there is something new about Charles' Supercarrier that functions differently to Dreadnoughts and perhaps the post-scarsity traditional way of doing things. The DCP doesn't really have a supercarrier because its ships are fast and supplied almost indefinately by the grid and hyperspace |
| 21:52.30 | DanzaDelMondo | "Supercarriers as defined by dragon people" |
| 21:52.58 | Xho | I sort of regret having this concern in the first place now |
| 21:53.01 | Charles_Murray | If it doesn't fit the definition of a supercarrier, but is called that, it belongs on some other classification |
| 21:53.18 | DrodoEmpire | Xho: Its alright, so long as everybody remains civil. |
| 21:53.23 | Xho | It was mainly out of my opinion that France as a nation on the wiki aren't exactly the inventors of Supercarriers as the page sort of words it |
| 21:53.25 | Xho | That was it |
| 21:53.34 | DanzaDelMondo | As I said |
| 21:53.36 | DanzaDelMondo | Separate the page |
| 21:53.39 | Hachiman | But why must the page be written with a Francocentric viewpoint in mind |
| 21:53.42 | DanzaDelMondo | MAke several sections |
| 21:54.04 | Charles_Murray | Because they invented the class, and have dominated its use, development, and execution |
| 21:54.05 | Wormy_ | ^ simple solution |
| 21:54.07 | Hachiman | They're not the first nation to come up with supercarriers, use the term supercarrier, |
| 21:54.11 | Hachiman | But |
| 21:54.17 | Xho | My head |
| 21:54.26 | Charles_Murray | They're the first nation to come up with intergalactic supercarriers, but not the term supercarrier |
| 21:54.34 | Xho | Well |
| 21:54.38 | Hachiman | Fuck it, at this point I'm not going to challenge bullshit anymore |
| 21:54.41 | DrodoEmpire | Hachiman, no |
| 21:54.42 | DrodoEmpire | Stop |
| 21:54.52 | Wormy_ | Whats wrong with having a general page for supercarrirs with a large section for the French definition? |
| 21:54.56 | DrodoEmpire | I want this to remain civil, no need to get upset |
| 21:54.56 | Xho | My fiction has used the term supercarriers before, that was sort of my concern |
| 21:54.57 | Hachiman | Intergalactic supercarriers have been a thing before France |
| 21:55.07 | Charles_Murray | How so? |
| 21:55.13 | Wormy_ | I mean the page actually has a section for pre-Xonexi era sypercarriers anyway |
| 21:55.21 | DanzaDelMondo | Add another section |
| 21:55.22 | Xho | I just don't know whether the fact that my terminology of a Supercarrier is now affected because it seems to have been invented by France |
| 21:55.29 | Charles_Murray | It's not |
| 21:55.32 | Hachiman | Wormy_: No, those are supercarrier-*like* ships |
| 21:55.35 | Hachiman | They're not supercarriers |
| 21:55.37 | Charles_Murray | at all affected |
| 21:56.12 | Xho | I kind of get the point but the page isn't liberal enough to define the fact that French Supercarriers aren't THE Supercarrier |
| 21:56.12 | Wormy_ | My point being, the page can accommodate more kinds of Supercarrier definition |
| 21:56.14 | Charles_Murray | Xho : From the person who made intergalactic supercarriers, your use of the term is not at all affected |
| 21:56.26 | Charles_Murray | There is no THE supercarrier, though |
| 21:56.30 | Xho | Exactly |
| 21:56.37 | Xho | The page to me doesn't reflect that |
| 21:56.38 | DanzaDelMondo | "Non-human nations also use ships comparable to supercarriers, whose classifications are frequently translated as such in human languages; however, as defined by human conventions, not all of them fit the supercarrier classification." |
| 21:56.47 | DanzaDelMondo | There we go |
| 21:57.34 | Xho | I think renaming the page to 'French Supercarrier' would fix the issue |
| 21:57.46 | Xho | Or 2800s Supercarrier |
| 21:57.47 | Xho | Or something |
| 21:57.49 | Charles_Murray | Xho : It kind of does, the opening line states that it's about "intergalactic supercarriers, [...] a class of star dreadnought pioneered by the French" |
| 21:58.20 | Charles_Murray | But they're not just French, though |
| 21:58.20 | Hachiman | But intergalactic supercarriers have been a thing before France; there have been supercarriers from other galaxies patrolling other galaxies before France was a spacefaring nation |
| 21:58.26 | Xho | Substantively speaking it's saying the French invented the Supercarrier, it's not a liberal term at a first glance |
| 21:58.38 | Xho | The 'modern' Supercarrier could work |
| 21:58.48 | Wormy_ | Be careful with the term 'intergalactic', its by far not the first intergalactic super-ship, I can see that causing confusion. |
| 21:59.01 | DanzaDelMondo | Supercarrier (Baguette hon hon hon) |
| 21:59.06 | Wormy_ | Even though this definition of the Supercarrier is the first |
| 21:59.11 | DanzaDelMondo | Wikipedia does that |
| 21:59.15 | DanzaDelMondo | It has seal (Europe) |
| 21:59.18 | DanzaDelMondo | And Seal (Asia) |
| 21:59.22 | DanzaDelMondo | Even though they are basically the same thing |
| 21:59.27 | Xho | The thing is, other fictions have ships called Supercarriers and its basically a misnomer should France 'invent' the "Fiction:Supercarrier" page as it sort of invalidates other Supercarriers without a generalised definition |
| 22:00.07 | Xho | So there needs to be some clear definition that it's the 2800s standard of a Supercarrier rather than the absolute definition of a ship |
| 22:00.20 | Charles_Murray | Hachiman : Please show me a ship that has the exact characteristics of a French-style supercarrier, the exact same purpose, within the exact same doctrine |
| 22:00.24 | Charles_Murray | A doctrine which I made up |
| 22:00.30 | Hachiman | But why should it conform to French standards |
| 22:00.50 | Charles_Murray | Because it's a French-style supercarrier o.o That's what the page is about |
| 22:00.51 | DanzaDelMondo | As I said |
| 22:00.53 | DanzaDelMondo | Either separate the page |
| 22:00.55 | DanzaDelMondo | Or make sections |
| 22:00.59 | Wormy_ | Does it really matter if it has to conform or not? |
| 22:01.01 | Xho | Imperios has the right idea ppl |
| 22:01.16 | Wormy_ | But yeah I'm with Imperios |
| 22:01.19 | Charles_Murray | It does, because the page isn't about supercarriers |
| 22:01.27 | Charles_Murray | It's about a class of ship which the French did invent |
| 22:01.29 | Xho | screams internally |
| 22:01.31 | DanzaDelMondo | "French supercarriers - French Imperial supercarriers are baguette-shaped and shoot cheese" |
| 22:01.36 | Ghel | I think the argument is that the page called "Supercarrier" should be about supercarriers. |
| 22:01.39 | Xho | In that case it should be French Supercarrier as a page then |
| 22:01.39 | Wormy_ | It is causing confusion though, so it is your responsibility to fix that. |
| 22:01.52 | DanzaDelMondo | "Xhodocto supercarriers - Xhodocto supercarriers are bull-shaped and fire nu metal" |
| 22:01.54 | Hachiman | But you're claiming that if an intergalactic supercarrier existed before the French interpretation of an intergalactic supercarrier was developed, it should conform with the standards of a French intergalactic supercarrier or it's not a supercarrier at all |
| 22:02.02 | Xho | DanzaDelMondo: U WOT M8 |
| 22:02.09 | DanzaDelMondo | OR |
| 22:02.13 | DanzaDelMondo | "French-style supercarriers" |
| 22:02.14 | DrodoEmpire | I say make sections, make the concept broader, and have, say, "pre-xonexi supercarriers" and other regional variations under that, and then "post-xonexi supercarriers" or "French supercarriers" |
| 22:02.24 | Xho | ^ |
| 22:02.28 | DanzaDelMondo | ^ see this guy understands |
| 22:02.36 | Ghel | I agree. |
| 22:02.42 | Wormy_ | Indeed |
| 22:02.45 | DrodoEmpire | I figured I'd give my opinion now as I see this going in circles. Charles? |
| 22:02.46 | Hachiman | Am I the only one who thinks that you're being stubborn here or is it just me being a fucking idiot again |
| 22:02.49 | DanzaDelMondo | "French-style supercarriers were pioneered by Hon de Hon and made to ensure intergalactic power projection" |
| 22:03.15 | Charles_Murray | Again, I'm not sure we understand what the page is about |
| 22:03.15 | DanzaDelMondo | "Xhodocto supercarriers were made to ensure the complete edgification of the universe" |
| 22:03.25 | Ghel | Hachi: The majority of us seem to agree with you that the page on supercarriers should be about supercarriers and not merely the French conception, if that's what you're asking. |
| 22:03.27 | DanzaDelMondo | Well if this is only about French-style supercarriers |
| 22:03.28 | Charles_Murray | That's a fundamental misunderstanding which I've been trying to clear up |
| 22:03.32 | DanzaDelMondo | Rename it as such |
| 22:03.34 | Xho | Hachiman: Basically the page is intended to be a France-style Supercarrier but the nomenclature and writing on the page doesn't quite define that so well |
| 22:03.36 | DanzaDelMondo | "Modern supercarriers" |
| 22:03.38 | DrodoEmpire | No, Charles, we know what we want the page to be about |
| 22:03.42 | DanzaDelMondo | "Xonexi Supercarriers" |
| 22:03.47 | DanzaDelMondo | "Supercarriers (France)" |
| 22:03.49 | Charles_Murray | GUYS |
| 22:03.52 | Charles_Murray | HOLD ON |
| 22:03.54 | Charles_Murray | Sorry |
| 22:03.56 | DrodoEmpire | No, you hold on |
| 22:03.59 | DrodoEmpire | Listen to us for once |
| 22:04.07 | Wormy_ | Charles_Murray: Its your page, is it not? I think you should consider ways to clear up the confusion. |
| 22:04.18 | Xho | And we're all saying now that the page should be Wiki generic rather than just a France-style Supercarrier on it as the name is causing massive confusion |
| 22:04.26 | Charles_Murray | I am, but as I said before, it's more complicated than what it's being made out to be here |
| 22:04.34 | Charles_Murray | And yes, IRL it is confusing |
| 22:04.36 | DrodoEmpire | Fuck's sake, Charles, you always do this. People aren't buying your argument, and they want it to be broader |
| 22:04.36 | Charles_Murray | that's normal |
| 22:04.41 | DrodoEmpire | What is your issue? |
| 22:04.45 | Xho | I really don't think it's that complicated |
| 22:04.51 | DanzaDelMondo | A simple renaming would work |
| 22:04.59 | DanzaDelMondo | Or an explanation paragraph in the beginning |
| 22:05.01 | Charles_Murray | That's how the naval world -works- |
| 22:05.07 | DrodoEmpire | I'd prefer a more intuitive solution like what I put out |
| 22:05.09 | Charles_Murray | Yes, I'm considering all of that |
| 22:05.17 | Xho | Yeah but this is a wiki, we're not that complex |
| 22:05.21 | Charles_Murray | But again, please let me explain my concern with making it a broader page |
| 22:05.21 | Wormy_ | Aye, but this is a wiki not the real world. We have to make things clear |
| 22:05.26 | DanzaDelMondo | But SporeWiki, unlike Earth, lacks a universal naval classification |
| 22:05.32 | Xho | Wormy_: fuckin ninja'd u scrub |
| 22:05.33 | Charles_Murray | Er |
| 22:05.41 | Charles_Murray | The real world lacks a universal naval classification |
| 22:05.46 | Charles_Murray | That's what I've been trying to tell you guys |
| 22:05.46 | DanzaDelMondo | My point is |
| 22:05.51 | DrodoEmpire | Danza, in Charles' defense the *Earth* lacks a universal classification |
| 22:05.55 | DanzaDelMondo | There is no single civilisation that basically dominated sea/space, like Europe does IRL |
| 22:06.03 | Xho | Basically we need to individualise each classification of a Supercarrier on one page and define that |
| 22:06.14 | Charles_Murray | The problem is that if we make a page based on what people call supercarriers, then it's not a useful page |
| 22:06.17 | DanzaDelMondo | Junks and the like were basically irrelevant for the overall naval history of the world |
| 22:06.21 | DanzaDelMondo | ASIANS CAN'T SAIL |
| 22:06.26 | Hachiman | Wait |
| 22:06.30 | DrodoEmpire | Charles: Nonsense |
| 22:06.38 | DanzaDelMondo | BEST ASIAN SAILOR WAS A FUCKING MUSLIM |
| 22:06.38 | DrodoEmpire | Hear me out for a moment |
| 22:06.46 | DanzaDelMondo | nvm |
| 22:06.47 | DanzaDelMondo | anyway |
| 22:06.47 | Hachiman | So if we broaden the page to include intergalactic supercarriers that do not conform to French standards, it's *useless*? |
| 22:06.54 | Ghel | I don't think there are so many widely-held definitions of "supercarrier" to make a page listing all of them useless. |
| 22:07.00 | Xho | My head hurts from this discussion |
| 22:07.01 | Charles_Murray | It's going to have tons of different types of ships on it, with different purposes, from different doctrines, from different navies, with no commonalities except the fact that they are called supercarrier |
| 22:07.13 | DanzaDelMondo | Alrighty then |
| 22:07.17 | Charles_Murray | It's like making a page about Joe, and listing all of the people who were called joe and what they did |
| 22:07.24 | DrodoEmpire | Bah fine |
| 22:07.25 | DanzaDelMondo | If you want the page to be solely about French-style supercarriers |
| 22:07.25 | Xho | That's sort of the idea, it's classification by nomenclature and not similarities |
| 22:07.28 | Charles_Murray | You can do it, but it's not useful |
| 22:07.34 | DrodoEmpire | Then how about we rename it to "Xonexian Supercarrier" |
| 22:07.35 | DanzaDelMondo | Make it more obvious with the name and the description |
| 22:07.40 | Ghel | Charles_Murray: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph#People_known_as_Joseph |
| 22:07.42 | DanzaDelMondo | Make an explanatory paragraph |
| 22:07.51 | Charles_Murray | Why does this page exist |
| 22:07.57 | DrodoEmpire | Ghel: That doesn't change the fact that such a page isn't useful |
| 22:07.58 | DanzaDelMondo | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia) |
| 22:07.59 | Hachiman | Because it's useful |
| 22:08.00 | DanzaDelMondo | There's this |
| 22:08.01 | Charles_Murray | I'm contemplating that, yes |
| 22:08.08 | Xho | Hachiman: absolutely barbaric |
| 22:08.15 | DanzaDelMondo | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(emblem)#The_Western_tradition There's also this |
| 22:08.29 | DrodoEmpire | Not *very*, considering first name is such an arbitrary characteristic |
| 22:08.32 | DanzaDelMondo | Two different pages around roughly the same idea, but by different civilisations |
| 22:08.35 | Hachiman | You know what, fuck it, I'm done; have your cake and eat it because at this point I think you're spouting bullshit |
| 22:09.03 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi, please? |
| 22:09.07 | Hachiman | Have your fucking French monopoly |
| 22:09.14 | DrodoEmpire | That isn't what he's asking for |
| 22:09.24 | Xho | Final point of the discussion is that the page should be renamed to Xonexi Supercarrier |
| 22:09.24 | DanzaDelMondo | ^ gas Hachiman plz |
| 22:09.31 | DanzaDelMondo | And Xho has the point |
| 22:09.34 | Wormy_ | Guillotine him |
| 22:09.42 | Xho | Let's do that and end the discussion because this is beginning to irritate me |
| 22:09.51 | Ghel | If it *really* is the case that there are too many ideas of what makes a "supercarrier" to make a page on them all useless, then yes, what Xho says. |
| 22:10.12 | DrodoEmpire | Well it *is* difficult to define I suppose |
| 22:10.19 | DrodoEmpire | Like any naval class |
| 22:10.21 | Charles_Murray | Hachiman Again, I agree with you. You're absolutely right, and if what you were arguing is true, then I would comply because that would be bullshit |
| 22:10.31 | Charles_Murray | But you're not getting the distinction, or what I'm talking about |
| 22:10.34 | Wormy_ | I think the community is quite clear it wants to leave supercarrier undefined. And it did exist as a term for large intergalactic ships prior |
| 22:10.47 | DanzaDelMondo | Wormy_: ALLONS ENFANTS DE LA PATRIE |
| 22:10.54 | Charles_Murray | We're having two very different conversations |
| 22:10.55 | DanzaDelMondo | LE JOUR DE GLOIRE EST ARRIVE |
| 22:10.59 | Xho | Basically we can't define what a Supercarrier is, which is why the page should be renamed |
| 22:11.06 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 22:11.08 | Xho | 'Supercarrier' is too generic a term which is the source of the confusion |
| 22:11.09 | Wormy_ | Simples |
| 22:11.17 | DrodoEmpire | We can only define a certain subset of supercarriers |
| 22:11.23 | Hachiman | "If your planet has a sky but does not conform to the properties of the sky of France, then it is not actually a sky nor does it belong on a page about skies but you're free to call it a sky anyway" |
| 22:11.32 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi stop |
| 22:11.39 | Wormy_ | That or Charles should explain in detail what the differences are on the page itself |
| 22:11.42 | DrodoEmpire | Stop talking to Charles, and Charles stop talking to Hachi |
| 22:11.48 | DrodoEmpire | You're not solving anything |
| 22:11.56 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ That's what thing I'm considering |
| 22:12.00 | DrodoEmpire | If you two *want* to fight, do it in private |
| 22:12.28 | DanzaDelMondo | Right so what are you going to do |
| 22:12.29 | Xho | I need food |
| 22:12.31 | Xho | But I need sleep |
| 22:12.33 | Xho | wat do |
| 22:12.46 | DrodoEmpire | shrugs |
| 22:13.06 | Hachiman | I don't want to fight; I just want a setting where I can have a supercarrier and have it be recognized as a supercarrier so I can put it on a page about supercarriers |
| 22:13.23 | Charles_Murray | I'm going to think about it more and see if I can come up with a solution. I've considered changing the name of the page, rather than Xonexi Supercarrier, to Intergalactic Supercarrier, because that's a term I haven't seen used as much and might clear up some confusion |
| 22:13.33 | Wormy_ | DanzaDelMondo: Going Childs of the Country? |
| 22:13.46 | DanzaDelMondo | I'd say Supercarrier (Xonexi) works best |
| 22:13.54 | Charles_Murray | Right, but there's no concrete or correct definition of what a supercarrier is |
| 22:14.07 | DrodoEmpire | I'd prefer "XOnexian Supercarrier" for that reason |
| 22:14.16 | Hachiman | I agree with Drodo |
| 22:14.21 | DanzaDelMondo | Supercarrier (Xonexi) and the explanation that not every supercarrier is a baguettecarrier |
| 22:14.22 | Wormy_ | Its more international |
| 22:14.41 | Ghel | There's a concrete definition of what "intergalactic" is, and it doesn't help to narrow down the list of possible "supercarriers" much at all. |
| 22:14.41 | Wormy_ | And shows France as actors in the intergalactic community |
| 22:15.25 | DanzaDelMondo | Wormy_: "Let us march, children of the fatherland, the hour of glory has arrived" |
| 22:15.30 | Charles_Murray | Ghel : How so? Have there been other supercarriers prefaced with "Intergalactic" before? |
| 22:15.33 | Wormy_ | right |
| 22:15.50 | Charles_Murray | Motherland might be a better translation |
| 22:15.53 | Hachiman | There have been supercarriers that travelled at an intergalactic capacity before |
| 22:15.55 | Charles_Murray | It's feminine |
| 22:15.55 | Ghel | No, they haven't. So it does at least help to imply that it's a technical concept of a supercarrier. |
| 22:15.58 | Wormy_ | No, but there have been plenty of intergalactic superships |
| 22:16.07 | Ghel | But as Hachi and Wormy have just said... yeah. |
| 22:16.15 | Wormy_ | And that could be a source of confusion in the future |
| 22:16.34 | Wormy_ | I say, "French" of "Xonexi" are good abbreviations |
| 22:16.38 | Charles_Murray | Mhm, but what seems to be important here is the -name- of the thing |
| 22:16.44 | Charles_Murray | Not so much what it does |
| 22:16.50 | Hachiman | For fuck's sake |
| 22:16.55 | *** part/#sporewiki Hachiman (5aff252c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.37.44) |
| 22:17.11 | Charles_Murray | And if Intergalactic Supercarrier hasn't been used before to name something else, I'm not sure what the confusion is? |
| 22:17.11 | Wormy_ | Wrong word I used there |
| 22:17.35 | AdmiralPanda | so the summary of what I'm seeing is Hachi being Hachi, and people not coming to the conclusion that you're either specifically making a page JUST for a french design, or you're making a general page with a section that is specifically about the french design |
| 22:17.36 | Wormy_ | Its confusing because it implies intergalacrtic supercarriers didn't exist before |
| 22:17.37 | Ghel | Oh, it is an improvement. But it could still be taken as implying that it's any supercarrier capable of intergalactic travel. |
| 22:17.52 | Charles_Murray | Ah, I see what you mean |
| 22:17.56 | Wormy_ | Obviously, your kind of supercarrier didn't |
| 22:18.15 | Wormy_ | But in the frame of mind from someone not introduced to the concept, it might be |
| 22:19.05 | AdmiralPanda | because here's the thing: it's a supercarrier conforming to a french standard, so the page should make absolutely clear in all aspects that this is purely the french-oriented variant and not the absolute standard |
| 22:19.31 | AdmiralPanda | which is best conveyed by a generic page, which has a section about superships, and a subsection about the french design of supercarriers |
| 22:19.53 | Charles_Murray | ^ That would make a lot of sense |
| 22:20.24 | DanzaDelMondo | Charles_Murray: But motherland is *our* thing |
| 22:20.30 | Ghel | On the page making clear that other idea of a "supercarrier" exist: |
| 22:20.32 | Ghel | [22:56] <DanzaDelMondo> "Non-human nations also use ships comparable to supercarriers, whose classifications are frequently translated as such in human languages; however, as defined by human conventions, not all of them fit the supercarrier classification." |
| 22:20.41 | Ghel | was an earlier suggestion. |
| 22:20.44 | DanzaDelMondo | That being said there is no actual word in Russian that is translated into "motherland" |
| 22:21.01 | DanzaDelMondo | There is "fatherland", "homeland" and "mother homeland" |
| 22:21.26 | Wormy_ | Can you cut "home" from "land" and say "Mother-Land" in Russian? |
| 22:21.49 | dino82_ | back |
| 22:21.51 | Wormy_ | In English its easy to cut and paste words by adding a dash |
| 22:21.53 | DanzaDelMondo | Wormy_: It'd sound like the name of a pagan goddess in that case - like "Mother Earth" |
| 22:22.08 | Wormy_ | Interesting |
| 22:22.23 | AdmiralPanda | since we're taking "super" to mean the distinction between purely practical, and dick-waving you could easily define a "supership" category, within which you have supercarriers which are superships which carry things, and then you have the french design standard within that, as one of many that exist |
| 22:22.25 | DanzaDelMondo | Russian usually forms words through suffixation, rather than root combination like English and other Germanic languages |
| 22:22.43 | DanzaDelMondo | So "fatherland" is more like father + (suffix for place) |
| 22:22.49 | Wormy_ | I find those structural differences fascinating |
| 22:22.55 | DanzaDelMondo | Father = otets |
| 22:23.02 | DanzaDelMondo | fatherland = OTECHestvo |
| 22:23.10 | DanzaDelMondo | "estv" is the suffix |
| 22:23.25 | DanzaDelMondo | For example "rebyata" is "kids" |
| 22:23.39 | DanzaDelMondo | And "rebyachestvo" is "infantilism" |
| 22:23.50 | Wormy_ | So its like "Fathered the land" |
| 22:24.01 | DanzaDelMondo | Land of fathers more like |
| 22:24.08 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ Ghelae I'm leaning towards calling it Fiction:Supercarrier (Xonexi) or Fiction:Xonexian Supercarrier , but my concern there is that it might imply a limit to its adoption along astrographical lines |
| 22:24.47 | DanzaDelMondo | It is used for February the 23th, or the Day of the Defender of the Fatherland, which is like a joint military day and male version of Women's Day |
| 22:24.52 | Wormy_ | You mean, it might water down the amount of ships true to the Xonexian definition? |
| 22:25.16 | DanzaDelMondo | the latter part of the celebration arguably emphasises on the "Father" in "Fatherland" |
| 22:25.19 | Charles_Murray | Well no, but it might turn people away from adopting the type |
| 22:25.32 | Charles_Murray | i.e., "Oh this is a Xonexi thing, and I'm not a part of Xonexi" |
| 22:25.40 | DanzaDelMondo | "You must defend your *father*land like your *fathers* before you" |
| 22:25.53 | DanzaDelMondo | Charles_Murray: Then Supercarrier (French-style) |
| 22:25.58 | DanzaDelMondo | Or Xonexi-style |
| 22:26.03 | Ghel | So, say, if a Xonexi-type supercarrier were deployed in Cyrannus or Mirus, people might not call it that because they're in the Xonexi Cluster / part of the Xonexi Allies? |
| 22:26.12 | DanzaDelMondo | Explain that it is used by non-Xonexi groups as well |
| 22:26.38 | Wormy_ | Or... What if we found a term that sort of describes what the supercarrier is? |
| 22:26.42 | DanzaDelMondo | The more generic word for motherland in Russian is "rodina", which derives from "rod", which means "kin" or "race" or something |
| 22:26.56 | Wormy_ | Tybusen's "Logistical carrier" is the kind of thing I mean |
| 22:26.56 | Charles_Murray | I mean, if we look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought It's the British usage of the term, which became the dominant one, and with disembuguation at the top |
| 22:27.29 | AdmiralPanda | I still think it should be a generic page with subcategories |
| 22:27.48 | Charles_Murray | His term, iirc, is Logistic dreadnought, iirc |
| 22:28.00 | AdmiralPanda | that way you can have an actual explanation of what a supership and supercarrier is, for people making their own fiction, and then examples |
| 22:28.46 | Charles_Murray | Rite, but again, then we would have to make calls about what is not a true supercarrier, or a true supership, etc |
| 22:29.37 | Charles_Murray | Terms are hard |
| 22:29.43 | DanzaDelMondo | "Rodina-Mat", or "Mother-Homeland", is more like anthropomorphised Russia rather than the term for a country or a place |
| 22:29.49 | DanzaDelMondo | Like Lady Liberty but Rusian |
| 22:30.03 | Wormy_ | lol |
| 22:30.45 | AdmiralPanda | supership = the distinction between what is purely practical and what is dick-waving. done |
| 22:31.04 | Charles_Murray | The Kicath might take offense to that lol |
| 22:31.45 | Wormy_ | Anyway, bbl |
| 22:31.51 | AdmiralPanda | and carrier is plain and obvious, just like cruiser and, well, basically every other generic ship designation out there based on function |
| 22:32.19 | Charles_Murray | It's not though |
| 22:32.47 | AdmiralPanda | if its primary role is to carry something else, and it's beyond the point of pure practicality and into dickwaving, it's a supercarrier |
| 22:32.48 | Charles_Murray | A cruiser's size, role, durability, speed, armament, etc, changes dramatically over the course of the 20th century |
| 22:33.00 | DanzaDelMondo | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Triple_Entente.jpg That's Mother Homeland for example |
| 22:33.00 | dino82_ | @Ghel: Thanks :D |
| 22:33.04 | Charles_Murray | A supercarrier is very practical o.o |
| 22:33.24 | AdmiralPanda | size, durability, speed, and armament have nothing to do with type, what makes a cruiser a cruiser is that it's designed for long-range and long-term deployment |
| 22:33.33 | DanzaDelMondo | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/f/f7/Ussr0437.jpg That is perhaps the most iconic depiction of personified Russia |
| 22:33.33 | AdmiralPanda | I said pure practicality, not that supercarriers are unpractical |
| 22:33.42 | Charles_Murray | It's pretty pure |
| 22:34.26 | AdmiralPanda | purely practical craft are almost always smaller because greater efficiency, the only reason you get bigger is if you objectively have to because of some factor, or to dick-wave |
| 22:34.41 | DanzaDelMondo | Though that's the USSR |
| 22:34.43 | DanzaDelMondo | Not Russia |
| 22:35.03 | AdmiralPanda | like for example if your fancy new power source requires a lot more room than the old one, you build a bigger ship to make use of it to is maximum capacity |
| 22:36.04 | Charles_Murray | Factor here is carrying capacity, the desire to fit a large number of facilities, etc, into one ship, and in later designs to have a mount for cannons capable for taking on other superships. |
| 22:36.13 | Charles_Murray | From a distance, that is |
| 22:36.30 | AdmiralPanda | for the french design perhaps, but the french design does not define the class |
| 22:36.50 | AdmiralPanda | which is why you have a generic page with subcategories, so that others don't have to define their work by how it relates to yours |
| 22:37.00 | AdmiralPanda | which is why Hachi had a problem with you |
| 22:38.16 | Charles_Murray | But that's how terms work IRL; Someone comes up with an idea, it gets a name, and if it's practical and gives an edge, people adopt it. That's what's being modeled here. |
| 22:38.26 | DanzaDelMondo | Wormy_away: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/The_Chinese_Question_%28February_1871%29%2C_by_Thomas_Nast.png Wow |
| 22:38.30 | Charles_Murray | So the French design does define the class, it creates it |
| 22:38.51 | Charles_Murray | The confusion comes when it carries the name that others are using to refer to other things |
| 22:38.57 | AdmiralPanda | the french design creates the french design, not the supercarrier design as a whole |
| 22:39.00 | Ghel | The page got renamed 9 minutes ago anyway. |
| 22:39.47 | AdmiralPanda | if you're purely making a page for the french supercarrier, make it a part of your own fiction, such as part of your military page where it belongs, not as a standalone waving its dick over the rest of the wiki- which is the part Hachi took issue with |
| 22:40.38 | DrodoEmpire | Alright, everyone this is enough |
| 22:40.49 | AdmiralPanda | agreed |
| 22:40.53 | DrodoEmpire | Panda, you're getting stupidly confrontational, so just stop |
| 22:41.03 | DrodoEmpire | Charles, you're running in circles, so you can stop |
| 22:41.05 | AdmiralPanda | I'm going to leave it as my last statement that what's needed is a generic page |
| 22:41.26 | AdmiralPanda | and thanks for being level-headed Drodo, sorry I got argumentative all |
| 22:41.30 | DrodoEmpire | Ghel, you tried to disprove this using words or whatever, so you can stop too |
| 22:41.45 | Ghel | ...I have stopped. |
| 22:41.49 | DrodoEmpire | Just everyone stop because this is going to hell |
| 22:42.04 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway, thank you Panda, its alright |
| 22:43.01 | AdmiralPanda | My final opinion is that what's needed is a generic page that people can use as a resource, because if it's just information for the sake of it it really belongs on the French military page, not on its own page- information intended for the use of others should be on a generic page |
| 22:43.10 | AdmiralPanda | and that's all I'm going to say |
| 22:43.36 | DrodoEmpire | Right. I agree that either the page needs to be renamed or given a broader subject. |
| 22:44.38 | Wormy_away | DanzaDelMondo: At least the Westerners look like apemen |
| 22:45.55 | Charles_Murray | It's been given a rename |
| 22:46.37 | Technobliterator | Why did we blow up into an argument over something really minor? ?___? |
| 22:46.51 | Charles_Murray | There was no argument, it was fairly civil o.o |
| 22:47.04 | Wormy_away | Lets take a step back and laugh at ourselves for our inability to understand each other and solve problems calmly |
| 22:47.11 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah... |
| 22:47.12 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 22:47.21 | Charles_Murray | That was pretty calm o.O |
| 22:47.26 | Technobliterator | Well, a user ragequit the channel and a few people admitted to being argumentative |
| 22:47.38 | Technobliterator | Of course, those were the only parts that stuck out to me |
| 22:47.40 | DrodoEmpire | Maybe I'm overprotective or oversensitive, but it wasn't calm. |
| 22:47.43 | Technobliterator | the rest was civil, indeed |
| 22:47.51 | DrodoEmpire | I'm given to agree with Tech on this |
| 22:47.52 | Charles_Murray | Can I have a final opinion if Admiral Panda was able to state his? |
| 22:47.59 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah go ahead |
| 22:48.10 | Technobliterator | no, no opinions are allowed here |
| 22:48.14 | Technobliterator | martial law enforced from now on |
| 22:48.19 | DrodoEmpire | good |
| 22:48.21 | DrodoEmpire | >.> |
| 22:48.29 | Technobliterator | you must listen to the thought police |
| 22:48.29 | Wormy_away | The TechJo hath spoken |
| 22:48.31 | AdmiralPanda | Techno = fascist confirmed |
| 22:48.40 | DanzaDelMondo | Wormy_away: The picture is anti-racist but also racist against... the IRish I guess |
| 22:48.46 | Technobliterator | Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia |
| 22:48.47 | DanzaDelMondo | Technobliterator's Lithuanian roots are showing |
| 22:48.50 | Technobliterator | or was it Eurasia |
| 22:48.51 | Technobliterator | I can't remember |
| 22:48.59 | DanzaDelMondo | Just wait till she institutes the TechnoReich |
| 22:49.03 | Technobliterator | hahaha |
| 22:49.09 | AdmiralPanda | Oceania basically is east asia as far as internet is concerned :P |
| 22:49.18 | Technobliterator | that was a 1984 reference :p |
| 22:49.23 | Technobliterator | Or an attempt at one |
| 22:49.28 | Technobliterator | but in all seriousness |
| 22:49.32 | Technobliterator | you are allowed an opinion |
| 22:49.32 | DanzaDelMondo | Oceania = British Empire basically |
| 22:49.34 | DanzaDelMondo | I think |
| 22:49.40 | Technobliterator | it was more like |
| 22:49.43 | DanzaDelMondo | Well territories formerly held by the British Empire |
| 22:49.46 | Technobliterator | yeah |
| 22:49.53 | Charles_Murray | And my final opinion is that I'm glad that we were able to have this discussion and keep it civil, such that a change could be made. Due to how terms work IRL (I deal with this all the time in PS), reflecting relationships of power, who came first, who is reading, who is involved in the production of information, etc. Due to these complexities, terms are far from simple, and standardization â even > |
| 22:49.58 | Monet | DanzaDelMondo: Britain i nthe book was called "Airstrip One" |
| 22:49.58 | dino82_ | The Dutch disovered parts of Oceanie in the past as well as first Europeans :P |
| 22:50.25 | Charles_Murray | when well-meaning to clear up confusion, is itself a judgement, an exercise of power in choosing one definition over another |
| 22:50.26 | Monet | Big Brother I believe lived in the former United States. |
| 22:51.22 | AdmiralPanda | I get where you're coming from from a real-world sense, after all shortswords were named after Sparta for centuries, but that doesn't help people genuinely looking for categorical information to improve their fiction |
| 22:51.53 | Charles_Murray | Rite, but this is a fiction page, not a Sporewiki:Fiction Universe/Important Topics page |
| 22:52.05 | Charles_Murray | </done> |
| 22:52.07 | Charles_Murray | Sorry |
| 22:52.14 | AdmiralPanda | so make it part of your military page, not a separate page on its own |
| 22:52.16 | Technobliterator | most of the Project:Fiction Universe/Important Topics pages need rewriting honestly |
| 22:52.28 | AdmiralPanda | because what it sounded like was you were trying to make this a resource for other people to use, not personal fiction |
| 22:52.36 | Technobliterator | it doesn't really happen often |
| 22:52.43 | Technobliterator | because people are more interested in working on their own fiction |
| 22:52.47 | Technobliterator | than on a collaborative thingy |
| 22:52.48 | AdmiralPanda | that's where some of the arguments came from |
| 22:53.18 | DanzaDelMondo | dino82_: I think 1984 Oceania isn't what we usually see as Oceania |
| 22:53.25 | Charles_Murray | I see. I hope that moving it off of such a generic name will help with that. |
| 22:53.26 | DanzaDelMondo | Though it includes IRL Oceania I think |
| 22:53.33 | Technobliterator | oh, dino82_ is here |
| 22:53.35 | Technobliterator | hihi :o |
| 22:53.39 | Ghel | There are non-French supercarriers on the page too. |
| 22:53.40 | DanzaDelMondo | While the Netherlands in 1984 are Russian/Eurasian land |
| 22:53.53 | Ghel | Jo: I'm thinking of rewriting the Hyperspace page soon like I did with Time. |
| 22:54.00 | Technobliterator | Ah, nice |
| 22:54.15 | AdmiralPanda | on that note, cna someone actually link me the page? |
| 22:54.28 | dino82_ | @Jo: Hi :P Has been a while again! |
| 22:54.34 | DrodoEmpire | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Intergalactic_Supercarrier |
| 22:54.35 | dino82_ | @Danza: Oh another Oceania? |
| 22:54.44 | Monet | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/1984_fictitious_world_map_v2_quad.svg/2212px-1984_fictitious_world_map_v2_quad.svg.png here we go |
| 22:55.04 | Ghel | Also, it seems only six of the pages listed on Important Topics are actually Important Topics subpages. |
| 22:56.03 | dino82_ | Oh is a fictional map? |
| 22:56.04 | DrodoEmpire | Those borders are disgusting |
| 22:56.06 | DrodoEmpire | >.< |
| 22:56.07 | AdmiralPanda | ok yeah a page like that should have a generic title, although there should be a disambiguation page |
| 22:56.22 | DanzaDelMondo | So the way I see it |
| 22:56.27 | DanzaDelMondo | Oceania rules the waves |
| 22:56.38 | DanzaDelMondo | Eastasia has the most territory and has the strongest army |
| 22:56.41 | DanzaDelMondo | *Eurasia |
| 22:56.44 | Ghel | Oceania rules... the ocean. |
| 22:56.51 | AdmiralPanda | like, a ship classification page from which pages such as that can be linked, because that page does really make it seem like the idea was invented by the french |
| 22:57.00 | DanzaDelMondo | While Eastasia is the most populous and has the most hard-working population therefore being the most industrious |
| 22:57.09 | DanzaDelMondo | industrialised even |
| 22:57.17 | AdmiralPanda | which the french version was, but the idea of a carrier as tool of power projection wasn't |
| 22:57.17 | Charles_Murray | AdmiralPanda : It was |
| 22:57.44 | Monet | DrodoEmpire: Borders defined similar to the Scramble for Africa. |
| 22:57.44 | AdmiralPanda | Charles, I was talking about the idea of a supercarrier as a whole, not the french version, as I always have been |
| 22:57.56 | Monet | The wars between the three powers are al la fabrication |
| 22:58.10 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
| 22:58.46 | AdmiralPanda | there is a vast difference between "the French invented this type of supercarrier" and "the French invented the supercarrier" |
| 22:58.59 | Charles_Murray | It's not a type of supercarrier doe |
| 22:59.01 | AdmiralPanda | the former is accurate, the latter is not, and the difference is in the presentation |
| 22:59.05 | Charles_Murray | It's a type of star dreadnought |
| 22:59.11 | AdmiralPanda | pardon the french, you call it a fucking supercarrier |
| 22:59.27 | Charles_Murray | Whoa |
| 22:59.32 | AdmiralPanda | further proof that a generic ship page is needed |
| 22:59.56 | Charles_Murray | What I'm trying to point out is that terms make no sense if you try to generalize them |
| 22:59.59 | DrodoEmpire | Guys, really? |
| 23:00.06 | Ghel | As fun as I'm sure it would be to watch the same conversation occur with the same misunderstandings and miscommunications all over again, I'm going to go now. |
| 23:00.07 | Ghel | Bye! |
| 23:00.15 | Charles_Murray | Take care |
| 23:00.17 | Charles_Murray | Sorry about that |
| 23:00.18 | AdmiralPanda | cya |
| 23:00.27 | DrodoEmpire | Well you should be, at this point |
| 23:00.36 | AdmiralPanda | yeah I'm just not going to bother, this is going to go in another roundabout |
| 23:00.39 | DrodoEmpire | Fucking hell, can we just decide when an argument's over? |
| 23:00.47 | DrodoEmpire | Unbelievab;e |
| 23:00.49 | Charles_Murray | I'm not the one who continued o.o |
| 23:00.50 | DrodoEmpire | *able |
| 23:00.51 | AdmiralPanda | DrodoEmpire: I think we're on to a new argument now, not sure |
| 23:01.05 | Technobliterator | oh, should I enforce martial law? |
| 23:01.05 | AdmiralPanda | but either way I just frankly don't give enough fucks to care |
| 23:01.09 | DrodoEmpire | Point is we should change subject- I thought this line of reasoning was over |
| 23:02.28 | AdmiralPanda | you need a classification page to sort shit like this out, otherwise this happens, either way I'm out cos this is making me feel like I'm falling into a classroom squabble and I like to think I'm better than that |
| 23:03.15 | Technobliterator | I actually agree with him there that a classification page would be fairly useful |
| 23:03.23 | Technobliterator | But this is not how we discuss stuff like that |
| 23:07.38 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 23:12.22 | *** join/#sporewiki Hellrock (43b553e0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.181.83.224) |
| 23:12.33 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 23:12.36 | Hellrock | Hello. |
| 23:12.37 | Charles_Murray | Hey |
| 23:12.42 | dino82_ | hi |
| 23:15.58 | dino82_ | hmm, think the wiki is slow |
| 23:16.19 | dino82_ | in some pages I open it keep s giving the Zarbriaek page and ya-Li as a red link, while I defenitley made them |
| 23:16.25 | dino82_ | ah well must be server related then or so |
| 23:34.53 | dino82_ | fell silent on the irc............ |
| 23:35.19 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah :p |
| 23:36.45 | Hellrock | Yep, for the sake of conversing |
| 23:37.25 | Hellrock | Can anyone give some advice on how to prolong any sentence? |
| 23:37.43 | DrodoEmpire | How do you mean? |
| 23:38.13 | Hellrock | For example, |
| 23:38.24 | Hellrock | Wait no |
| 23:38.44 | Hellrock | I'm editing a page right now. |
| 23:39.19 | Hellrock | And I feel like nearly every sentence in it could be prolonged somehow. |
| 23:40.02 | Hellrock | One of the sentences I typed were: |
| 23:40.17 | Hellrock | "The empire recognizes itself as a monolithic entity". |
| 23:40.51 | DanzaDelMondo | That could be *shortened* |
| 23:40.58 | DanzaDelMondo | "The empire is a unitary state" |
| 23:41.12 | DanzaDelMondo | You could explain why iti s a unitary state tho |
| 23:41.32 | DanzaDelMondo | The empire is a unitary state, having gotten rid of federalisation during the unification wars of blarg blarg blarg |
| 23:41.58 | Hellrock | What about a two year old empire? |
| 23:42.48 | Charles_Murray | Things came before it, and there were forces in its creation which carry on to the present day |
| 23:43.13 | DanzaDelMondo | ^that |
| 23:58.44 | Hellrock | Another question: |
| 23:59.24 | Hellrock | Does anyone know a word that describes a government whose lowly citizens having no control? |
| 23:59.30 | Hellrock | I can't find one anywhere. |
