| 00:00.07 | Technobliterator | that they need to block him from winning |
| 00:00.42 | Monet | This might lead ot another flaw with American or perhaps modenr politics |
| 00:00.49 | Charles_Murray | In the same places where Bernie was popular (minus the far west, they're going for Trump for reasons I can explain), Trump is understood as Hitler come again. |
| 00:01.10 | Monet | Campaigns focused onot on how to improve the country, but on how terrible an idea it is to vote for the other party. |
| 00:01.13 | Cyrannian | Indeed, I was referring more to the Republicans shifting to the populist right (and all the political rhetoric that comes with that) rather than the actual movement itself |
| 00:01.32 | Charles_Murray | Gotcha |
| 00:01.47 | The_Randomness | The funny thing is that the GOP has major issues with Trump as well |
| 00:01.56 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:02.08 | DrodoEmpire | The establishment doesn't like him in general |
| 00:02.24 | Technobliterator | I think the issue with a lot of the "Bernie or bust" movement right now is just that it's based on an emotional reaction rather than a rational response. The way I see it, it's just much better to hold your nose, accept that she's a deeply flawed candidate, and just vote for her to stop the other guy from doing what could be much more harm to you and your family. |
| 00:02.27 | The_Randomness | Like, they're constantly criticizing him harshly for his bullshit, and many people in the party can't stand him either |
| 00:03.15 | Technobliterator | But I guess if they cut some sort of deal and properly achieve party unity, that won't be too big of an issue |
| 00:03.53 | The_Randomness | Technobliterator: I mean, this is the expected outcome when a populist candidate loses |
| 00:03.58 | DrodoEmpire | Trump *really* isn't going to be that big of a deal tbh, I can see a lot of his policies- whatever they are- getting blocked and whatever else |
| 00:03.58 | Technobliterator | VP, cabinet, adopt some policies, or whatever |
| 00:04.03 | The_Randomness | Their supporters will be extremely upset |
| 00:04.03 | Technobliterator | Yeah, that's true |
| 00:04.04 | Cyrannian | To be fair, a considerable portion of Hillary supporters in 08 said they'd never support Obama when she terminated her campaign, but they eventually turned around |
| 00:04.20 | Technobliterator | And I think it's even worse because a large part of Bernie's base are first time voters and/or young voters |
| 00:04.20 | Charles_Murray | Though that movement can better be understood as a civil war within the GOP, between elites and Republican voters, between the post-2012 party platform and the GOP's biggest demographic, between the south and a president whom they don't recognize as legitimate or American |
| 00:04.27 | DrodoEmpire | I can see him being a bit of a do-nothing president |
| 00:04.42 | Charles_Murray | These same factors gave life to the Tea Party movement and are now giving life to Trump |
| 00:04.45 | Technobliterator | Which is to say, they've never really experienced having their candidate lose like this before and being given choices that aren't completely ideal to them |
| 00:04.46 | The_Randomness | Technobliterator: yeah, mostly young and white |
| 00:04.50 | Technobliterator | Mhm |
| 00:05.30 | Charles_Murray | The_Randomness Technobliterator : The technical term is "unlikely voters" ;) |
| 00:05.35 | The_Randomness | heh |
| 00:05.36 | Technobliterator | hahaha |
| 00:05.38 | Technobliterator | this is also true |
| 00:05.41 | Cyrannian | Well that's the thing, if the Republicans obstructed Obama's presidency, how do you think they'd react to an actual democratic socialist? :P |
| 00:05.58 | The_Randomness | Cyrannian: Probably the same way |
| 00:06.20 | Cyrannian | aye |
| 00:06.21 | The_Randomness | The only thing that's held the GOP together this long is "we don't like democrats" but now that's falling apart |
| 00:06.49 | Charles_Murray | In the Deep South? Really not well. In the far West, they'd be fairly happy. NY would be really confused. |
| 00:07.13 | Charles_Murray | Appalachia would go nuts. |
| 00:07.22 | The_Randomness | nuts in what way? |
| 00:07.42 | Monet | I suspect we might see much more more intense patisan politics as we move to the actual elections |
| 00:07.55 | DrodoEmpire | "GOP Establishment Still Has A Boner For Mitt Romney" |
| 00:07.57 | DrodoEmpire | Oh dear |
| 00:09.36 | Charles_Murray | The_Randomness Appalachians are descendants of Scots-Irish immigrants who used to live on the borderlands between England, Scotland, and Ireland. Rough, individualistic, down-to-earth, get-out-of-my-business sort of folk |
| 00:09.46 | The_Randomness | right, figured you meant that way |
| 00:10.41 | Charles_Murray | For them, the anti-government part of the GOP platform takes on a very personal character, being tied to ideas of personal freedoms and individual rights |
| 00:10.49 | Technobliterator | DrodoEmpire, you watch Kyle's videos? |
| 00:10.54 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah of course |
| 00:11.04 | Technobliterator | I quite like him, he's pretty decent |
| 00:11.05 | The_Randomness | Charles_Murray: This also reminds me of the history of socialism in the US |
| 00:11.10 | Technobliterator | \o/ |
| 00:11.11 | Charles_Murray | So Appalachia =/= Democratic socialism |
| 00:11.25 | DrodoEmpire | I try to have a broad amount of political opinions, which is why I watch a lot of both liberal and conservative media |
| 00:12.05 | Technobliterator | that's probably the best approach |
| 00:12.07 | DrodoEmpire | *a broad exposure to political opinions, rather |
| 00:12.31 | Technobliterator | I don't really have a single news source, I probably should get one |
| 00:12.37 | Technobliterator | or a couple |
| 00:12.59 | DrodoEmpire | I'd get several sources yeah |
| 00:13.56 | DrodoEmpire | Oh yeah its Friday tomorrow |
| 00:14.20 | DrodoEmpire | And this is basically the last week we do serious stuff in school, and the last week the teachers are allowed to issue tests <.< |
| 00:14.39 | Monet | No yay then? |
| 00:14.51 | DrodoEmpire | Well, yeah I'm happy |
| 00:15.07 | DrodoEmpire | Though the teachers will no doubt cram as many tests in tomorrow as possible. >.< |
| 00:15.39 | Charles_Murray | The_Randomness : oh? |
| 00:16.23 | The_Randomness | Let's just say early socialists in the US sucked |
| 00:16.49 | The_Randomness | one sec |
| 00:17.52 | DrodoEmpire | "****BREAKING****(#dramaalert)(#pewdiepie): $$$$$hillary$$$$$ EXPOSED as $ocialist! | The ALEX JONES channel 24/7 NEWS (gone wrong) (feat. Filthy Frank)" |
| 00:17.53 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:17.57 | DrodoEmpire | I dunno why I did that <.< |
| 00:18.07 | DrodoEmpire | Mostly to piss Randomness off I guess |
| 00:18.08 | DrodoEmpire | >.> |
| 00:18.15 | The_Randomness | DrodoEmpire: (GONE SEXUAL) |
| 00:18.19 | DrodoEmpire | ayy lmao |
| 00:18.49 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ Here they're bloody southerners and sheep shaggers |
| 00:18.54 | Technobliterator | hahahaha |
| 00:18.57 | Technobliterator | I lol'd so hard at that |
| 00:19.23 | Wormy_ | lol, what goes up must come down |
| 00:19.26 | Monet | Charmes_Murray: Its an interesting inverse. |
| 00:19.51 | Monet | The perceptions of North and SOuth are opposites to the other side of the Atlantic. |
| 00:20.01 | DrodoEmpire | Seems so yeah |
| 00:20.21 | The_Randomness | Charles_Murray: The main thing that doomed socialism in America is how they approached religion |
| 00:21.07 | Wormy_ | Our rednecks live in the North https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpxCDjJwUXg |
| 00:21.22 | Charles_Murray | (In all seriousness, nobody really knows them as sheep shaggers. xD New Englanders tend to take pity on the fact that Appalachia is poor and undeveloped, the others don't really tend to think about them. |
| 00:21.24 | Charles_Murray | ) |
| 00:22.21 | The_Randomness | (giving the tl;dr version here) Early socialists in the US were typically Protestant, sometimes radically so (which caused them to generally be anti-Catholic), and they also failed to interact with women's interests |
| 00:23.00 | The_Randomness | So, feminism went capitalist, and guess what? Catholics formed a majority of immigrants at the time, which were also a large part of the working class |
| 00:23.13 | The_Randomness | So, you have a socialist party that doesn't jive with workers |
| 00:23.24 | Charles_Murray | (Mostly they get lumped in with the south as hillbillies and rednecks, dumb uneducated idiots who are essentially getting duped again and again, either by capitalist elites, by corrupt politicians, by sheep mentality, religion, you name it) |
| 00:23.33 | Charles_Murray | (Depending on where you are or who you're talking to) |
| 00:24.07 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy_: Jesus H Murphy you British watch some weird shit |
| 00:24.08 | DrodoEmpire | XD |
| 00:24.08 | Charles_Murray | I have no idea what the South thinks of Appalachia |
| 00:24.27 | The_Randomness | And the workers wanted better lives, of course, and so they went ahead and made their own, non-socialist unions, inspired by Catholic doctrine at the time |
| 00:24.32 | Cyrannian | Those north/south perceptions exists in Ireland too... for reasons that should be historically apparent :P |
| 00:24.48 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 00:25.22 | Wormy_ | Drodo: Or maybe its just me XD |
| 00:25.32 | The_Randomness | So, you now have unions that are on a completely different path from socialism |
| 00:25.39 | DrodoEmpire | Maybe |
| 00:25.43 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy_ |
| 00:25.56 | The_Randomness | And it only gets better (or worse?) when you look at how they interacted with African Americans |
| 00:26.14 | The_Randomness | Which, well, they lacked the political will to come out against segregation, so... |
| 00:26.19 | Monet | A fair amount of the time the story is pretty similar: One half of the country is where you will find all the ports and factories, in the other half you'll find al lthe farms, mines, plantations, logging camps etc. |
| 00:26.22 | The_Randomness | they basically flopped |
| 00:26.28 | The_Randomness | in every way possible |
| 00:26.52 | Wormy_ | Cyrannian: Didn't you say there was also an East-West thing in Ireland? |
| 00:27.38 | Cyrannian | That's more of a joke, that people from Dublin refer to everywhere else in the country as "the bogs" |
| 00:27.50 | Charles_Murray | olol |
| 00:28.03 | Wormy_ | lol |
| 00:28.03 | *** join/#sporewiki Patriot868 (b8bddcc7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.189.220.199) |
| 00:28.07 | Wormy_ | Hi |
| 00:28.12 | Patriot868 | hello |
| 00:28.14 | Charles_Murray | It's not exactly a north-south thing in the United States, not truly |
| 00:28.22 | Patriot868 | Whats going on? |
| 00:28.25 | The_Randomness | Charles_Murray: Anyway, yeah, that's the tl;dr version of socialism's history in the US |
| 00:28.46 | Wormy_ | I live in the zone of North-South confusion |
| 00:28.54 | Wormy_ | in the UK |
| 00:29.02 | DrodoEmpire | Hey Patriot |
| 00:29.08 | Patriot868 | hi |
| 00:29.17 | DrodoEmpire | Discussing the election, though nor more culture in different countries |
| 00:29.22 | DrodoEmpire | *now |
| 00:29.23 | Monet | Charles_Murray: Isn't it more of a mainland-coastline divide these days? |
| 00:29.31 | Charles_Murray | Nope |
| 00:30.06 | Patriot868 | Ah yes, this election. Its revealed the true colors of a lot of people in the states. Neutraility is no longer an option it seems |
| 00:30.29 | Monet | You cane a little late for that part of the discussion Patriot. |
| 00:30.35 | Patriot868 | oh |
| 00:30.36 | DrodoEmpire | Nuance is dead :p |
| 00:30.50 | Charles_Murray | This is a more useful division of America into distinct "nations," or very large groups of people with similar worldviews and historical experiences: http://emerald.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/images/features/upinarms-map-large.jpg |
| 00:31.18 | Patriot868 | Welll there is no culture in So Cal so to speak, expect for rampant materialism and pleasure seeking. At least from my experience of living here my whole life. |
| 00:31.33 | DrodoEmpire | Why does that include Canada? Why does that include Nova Scotia as part of "Yankeedom"? :p |
| 00:31.43 | Monet | Charles_Murray: YEars ago I used to imagine that the United States was in structure perhaps more of an empire than a federation. |
| 00:31.45 | Charles_Murray | Settlement |
| 00:32.11 | DrodoEmpire | Maybe people from around those parts in the US are quite a lot like Nova Scotians, I dunno |
| 00:32.12 | Wormy_ | What political opinions like in Yankeedom and the Far West? |
| 00:32.18 | DrodoEmpire | But I... I doubt it...? |
| 00:32.20 | Patriot868 | Reminds me of the CK2 mod after the apocalypse, were the nation is divided into warring kingdoms |
| 00:32.26 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:32.45 | DrodoEmpire | I mean I'm unsure how broad this is and what it takes into account so maybe I'm wrong |
| 00:33.05 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire : State or country borders don't matter, dating back to the revolution there were Yankee settlers in Canada who tried to leave with the United States |
| 00:33.06 | Wormy_ | I get the idea with the Left Coast, Deep South, and of course Appalachia was the subject of discussion. |
| 00:33.10 | Charles_Murray | They failed pretty miserably |
| 00:33.30 | DrodoEmpire | Right, but what defines a "Yankee", according to this graph? |
| 00:33.41 | Charles_Murray | I'll explain that right now for Wormy |
| 00:33.49 | Monet | Wormy_: Yankeedom the best examples are Rhode Island, Providence and Bostonian mindsets. |
| 00:34.48 | Monet | Rich, traditional, critical (I think) patriotic. |
| 00:35.14 | Charles_Murray | Wormy : Yankeedom was founded by the Puritans, a religious sect of Englishmen fleeing persecution in England and looking to establish a homeland for themselves in America. Their driving motive was to establish the perfect society, a "city on the hill" based on democratic principles of equality, democracy, social justice, and societal cohesion |
| 00:35.24 | Monet | Oh yeah I just realised Yankeedom also includes Chicago. |
| 00:36.52 | Patriot868 | My hometown is part of El Norte I see |
| 00:37.08 | Charles_Murray | To be a Yankee citizen was to learn to be a responsible member of society, to have duties and responsibilities to act in a certain way, to conduct your life within a set of ethical rules, and to think in the way the society wants you to think |
| 00:37.30 | Monet | so quite traditional. |
| 00:37.34 | Charles_Murray | The ultimate goal being the creation of a just, egalitarian, and respectful society |
| 00:37.42 | DrodoEmpire | That's *fairly* close to the sort of ideas in most Nova Scotians |
| 00:37.47 | DrodoEmpire | I suppose |
| 00:38.11 | Patriot868 | Laudable goals |
| 00:38.19 | DrodoEmpire | I myself also fall within most of those categories though I tend to be something of a contrarian |
| 00:38.20 | Charles_Murray | Monet: Not... Really? They're liberal crusaders, in that they universalize their views and think everyone (1) should do things the way they do, and (2) think the way they do. |
| 00:38.36 | Patriot868 | What is El norte or the left coast defined as? |
| 00:39.00 | DrodoEmpire | Not because I necessarily *want* to be but simply because what I believe in is what I know to be true |
| 00:39.17 | Patriot868 | I suppose El norte is more influence by Mexican culture, but is the left coast similair to the Yankees, but taken to an extreme? |
| 00:39.22 | DrodoEmpire | (Though, I *do* like playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion and free speech) |
| 00:39.36 | Charles_Murray | Patriot868: Very close |
| 00:39.55 | Wormy_ | Interesting, seems like a moderate democratically minded people, but who upheld tradition as a means to preserve those values, but may not have been as open or tolerant to change as the ideal lib dem today. |
| 00:39.56 | Patriot868 | I had a feeling it would be like that |
| 00:40.01 | Patriot868 | Minus the puritan ideals |
| 00:40.28 | Monet | Charles_Murray: Traditional in the sense that their morals and actions are grounded in the thinking of their parents and grandparents. |
| 00:40.34 | Patriot868 | Since the Urban areas are mostly atheist or agnostic in some way, especially among the young |
| 00:40.46 | Monet | Liberal, but because that's how their parents raised them to be. |
| 00:40.58 | Monet | And how society expects the mto be |
| 00:41.07 | DrodoEmpire | To be fair, so are a lot of Nova Scotians Patriot |
| 00:41.09 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ Not open or tolerant to change, militantly in favor of it. Yankeedom was behind the abolitionist movement, the women's rights movement, the civil rights movement, the opposition to the war in vietnam, etc, etc |
| 00:41.19 | DrodoEmpire | Who are, according to this graph, Yankees |
| 00:41.24 | Charles_Murray | These categories aren't so easy :P |
| 00:41.59 | Wormy_ | Well then, there's a lot of Yankee in my values |
| 00:42.24 | Monet | The Far West though hmm...Well I hear those states aer quite sparsely populated |
| 00:42.29 | DrodoEmpire | Though to be perfectly clear I think there's a difference between "Puritan values" and "being a Puritan" |
| 00:42.42 | Patriot868 | They are |
| 00:42.43 | Charles_Murray | Patriot Wormy_ El Norte was the first of the nations, created by Spanish settlement in North America. Very rough, collectivist, originally built around Spanish missions and pretty much cut off from the more developed regions of southern Mexico. Very little infrastructure during the time of Spanish settlement, and they were forced to retreat in the face of waves of settlers from other nations |
| 00:43.04 | Patriot868 | Ah yes. So the Ranchero owners? |
| 00:43.19 | Charles_Murray | They were a part of that, yeah |
| 00:43.37 | DrodoEmpire | I mean, as much as some atheists like to downplay it, Canada and the US *are* Christian nations, in the sense that much of their culture comes from what are traditionally Christian values even if the people themselves aren't all that religious |
| 00:44.07 | Monet | Iowa only has about 3 million people, despite being only slightly larger than ENgland area-wise |
| 00:44.07 | DrodoEmpire | (And I say this as an atheist :p( |
| 00:44.10 | DrodoEmpire | *) |
| 00:44.39 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire : Though what it means to be religious means different things depending on which nation you're talking about |
| 00:44.52 | DrodoEmpire | Well yeah |
| 00:44.55 | Monet | Oh wait not Iowa |
| 00:45.05 | Monet | Iowa's a little too west |
| 00:45.09 | Patriot868 | Well, protestant vaules. Since there are dozens of sects of Christianity with diffrent values and beleifs. But yes, it does have values that are universal to most branches of Christianity |
| 00:45.15 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
| 00:45.15 | Patriot868 | the USA I mean |
| 00:45.21 | DrodoEmpire | Protestant in particular |
| 00:45.30 | Charles_Murray | El Norte is socially conservative, and very okay with rigid authority due partly to their Catholic upbringing, but as latinos turn out in increasing numbers in the past elections, they've gone Democrat given the racially-charged rhetoric of Deep Southern publics. |
| 00:45.46 | Patriot868 | Yes |
| 00:45.52 | Patriot868 | The GOP fails to realize this |
| 00:46.14 | Patriot868 | and beleives that the Latinos vote for them even though they consistently have not |
| 00:46.17 | Monet | Wormy_: Wyoming, the state i nthe Far West that's a giant perfect rectagle only has a population of about 600,000 |
| 00:46.27 | Charles_Murray | The GOP realizes this. Some care a lot, some think of them as foreigners who are behind America's problems |
| 00:46.43 | Charles_Murray | Monet : I can get to the far west in a little bit |
| 00:46.49 | Charles_Murray | Which nation should I explain next? |
| 00:46.58 | Patriot868 | Not to mention that the Children of first generation mexicans tend to radically drift from their parents |
| 00:46.59 | DrodoEmpire | The vape nation <.< |
| 00:47.10 | DrodoEmpire | V/\ |
| 00:47.11 | Wormy_ | So what are the Far West like and how do they differ from the Left Coast? When I think of the region historically I imagine hardy people in the frontier making a living prospecting in the mountains |
| 00:47.14 | The_Randomness | V/\ |
| 00:47.37 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ You wouldn't be far from the truth at all, actually. (cont.) |
| 00:48.03 | Monet | Wormy_: Either mountains or miles and miles of cereal crops. |
| 00:48.32 | Monet | Or empty plains |
| 00:49.10 | Wormy_ | I'm purely guessing here, but hardy people devoted to religion and community where it existed, and working class individualism in the sense of "do it yourself" ethic |
| 00:49.23 | Patriot868 | In the Far West? |
| 00:49.32 | Wormy_ | yeah |
| 00:49.40 | Charles_Murray | The region of the Far West was uninhabitable for the vast majority of American history given its terrain and lack of access to water. When settlement arrived in the 1800's, it was along rail lines which enabled far westerners to cart in all sorts of supplies from the Far West, New York, Yankeedom, etc |
| 00:49.57 | Wormy_ | Interesting |
| 00:50.06 | Charles_Murray | This actually made them very, very dependent on their employers, who were themselves capitalists from other nations, and resentful of them as well. |
| 00:50.32 | Patriot868 | It was mostly native Americans and isolated spaniards in the area, if I recall |
| 00:51.29 | Charles_Murray | The 1930's New Deal projects altered this dynamic with such projects as the Hoover Dam or the Valley Authority, though it merely ended up switching their dependence on and resentment for capitalists for resentment and dependence on the government |
| 00:51.38 | Charles_Murray | So essentially, they hate both and just want to be left alone |
| 00:51.55 | Charles_Murray | But don't want you to fire them or cut their social security benefits |
| 00:52.42 | Charles_Murray | They're republicans, most of them, but voted for both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump |
| 00:52.53 | Charles_Murray | Now that Sanders is out of the race, they're going for Donald Trump |
| 00:52.57 | Charles_Murray | I hope you guys see why? |
| 00:53.05 | Monet | Patriot868: I recall one sign of SPanish heritage in southern California and Arizona is there are a number of towns with Spanish names like "Casa Grande" |
| 00:53.12 | Patriot868 | Yes |
| 00:53.16 | Patriot868 | I live in such a twon |
| 00:53.19 | Wormy_ | I imagine they are idealist? |
| 00:53.27 | Charles_Murray | practical |
| 00:53.35 | Patriot868 | Monet:I live a block or two away from one of the old missions |
| 00:53.40 | The_Randomness | I'd imagine they'd gravitate towards populist candidates |
| 00:53.53 | Charles_Murray | They hate both the government and the market |
| 00:53.55 | Patriot868 | Yes. One could see this from the old days of the Grange |
| 00:54.01 | Charles_Murray | capitalists* |
| 00:54.08 | Charles_Murray | Monet: San Francisco is a Spanish name |
| 00:54.16 | Charles_Murray | Los Angeles, Las Vegas |
| 00:54.18 | Monet | Far Westerners by the sounds of it are the kind of peopel who'd prefer to get on with their lives and be left alone |
| 00:54.38 | Monet | Whatever's going on in Washington is little of their business unless it affects them |
| 00:54.38 | Charles_Murray | And militantly want to reclaim land held by the federal government |
| 00:54.57 | Charles_Murray | Well, the problem they see is that the government is too much in their lives |
| 00:55.47 | Patriot868 | From my experience with tthem, far westerners are very family oriented and insular. The Nation as whole doesnt matter, outside of supporting wars that AMerica is in (though thats more a relic of the days of the Second World War) |
| 00:56.05 | Wormy_ | Are they quite libertarian then? Either socially or economically, depending on whether they are being promised jobs or social security if its a choice of one or the other? |
| 00:56.10 | The_Randomness | Charles_Murray: I'm guessing you'd expect a higher prevalence of "sovereign citizens" then? |
| 00:56.15 | DrodoEmpire | I can appreciate some libertarianism for sure |
| 00:56.22 | Monet | I've heard the Far West is quite rural, the kind of place where the world beyond the county may as well be another planet. |
| 00:57.03 | Patriot868 | Areas in the Southwest are very rural. The smallest towns generally have one school that serves all grades |
| 00:57.15 | Charles_Murray | The_Randomness : You mean those distrustful of international institutions for reasons of national prestige and sovereignty? Wrong crowd, that's the Deep South. |
| 00:57.40 | The_Randomness | Maybe I used the wrong word for it |
| 00:57.50 | DrodoEmpire | I think I heard of who you're talking about |
| 00:57.52 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ Quite libertarian, but not in a market sense |
| 00:57.55 | The_Randomness | Basically the people who think that any sort of government is not legitimate |
| 00:58.06 | DrodoEmpire | Basically they're super anti-establishment anarchist types |
| 00:58.09 | Charles_Murray | They distrust corporations as much as the government |
| 00:58.12 | DrodoEmpire | anti-government, etc. |
| 00:58.19 | Monet | I think most of these other cultural regions I understand a fair bit |
| 00:58.38 | Charles_Murray | The_Randomness : Kind of, I don't think they'd go that far. They're not anarchists |
| 00:59.00 | Wormy_ | I see, I guess they like the way Trump criticises the establishment in his own way |
| 00:59.02 | Monet | The Left Coast is where you have Portland, Seattle, Silicon Valley and SanFran. |
| 00:59.18 | Charles_Murray | Right, and what defines those places, Monet? |
| 00:59.24 | The_Randomness | Right, of course, I was just asking if you'd expect a higher prevalence of them than in other areas of the US |
| 00:59.26 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ Mhm |
| 00:59.47 | The_Randomness | I wouldn't expect that to be a major demographic anywhere, no matter what the case |
| 01:00.11 | Monet | CharlesMurray_: neolibertarians and multiculturalists? |
| 01:00.41 | Monet | I know that those areas in particular are havens for hipster types. |
| 01:00.41 | Patriot868 | If I had to describe them, pathological altruists and left wing Idealists. |
| 01:00.50 | Patriot868 | I would agree with what monet said as well |
| 01:01.04 | Charles_Murray | The_Randomness : Libertarianism is itself a broad movement. You'll find libertarians in New York, the Far West, the Deep South, the Left Coast, the Midwest, etc, etc, all subscribing to ideas of limited government, but for very different reasons. Their political denomination as libertarians is derived from and subordinate to their worldview. |
| 01:01.15 | Wormy_ | ^ |
| 01:01.22 | The_Randomness | Right |
| 01:01.52 | The_Randomness | I wasn't really asking about libertarians, but it doesn't matter, don't mind me |
| 01:02.06 | Charles_Murray | Alright, I'll explain the Left Coast in a bit more detail. You two are touching upon some good points, but there's a critical set of elements I think are really cool |
| 01:02.09 | Wormy_ | I've seen Libers left and right, often claiming to be the original form of it. |
| 01:02.24 | Charles_Murray | after I get toast, that is |
| 01:02.28 | Monet | New Netherland well I've been to New York. I've met and seen New Yorkers firsthand |
| 01:02.32 | Patriot868 | Wormy:Thats how most movements are. No true Scotsman and all that |
| 01:02.59 | Patriot868 | Groups like to argue over who adhere more to the core of an ideology |
| 01:03.49 | Monet | Actually Tidewater's a bit of a blank for me. |
| 01:04.06 | Patriot868 | Is that Jeresy and lower? |
| 01:04.10 | Charles_Murray | Virginia |
| 01:04.24 | Charles_Murray | Used to be the most powerful of the American nations, now a rump of the Deep South |
| 01:04.35 | Patriot868 | Virgina has a very proud martial tradition. Not sure about the others |
| 01:04.55 | Monet | I get the suspicion that D.C. is an anomoly within the region. |
| 01:04.58 | Charles_Murray | Essentially a reproduction of English country gentry society, swapping serfs for slaves. |
| 01:05.09 | Patriot868 | DC is weird |
| 01:05.26 | Patriot868 | Outside of the Capital, you get suburub slum zones with igh crime rate |
| 01:05.29 | Patriot868 | *high |
| 01:05.31 | Patriot868 | In areas |
| 01:07.14 | Patriot868 | The one thing about Tide Water is that it plays host to a large amount of militray bases, especially in Virgina. The areas is dotted with battlefields from the rvolutionary War, War of 1812, and the Civil War |
| 01:07.37 | Patriot868 | The last in particular is very important culturally to the people there |
| 01:07.48 | Patriot868 | From my personal encounters at least |
| 01:08.06 | Monet | So an anti-war sentiment in Tidewater is frowned upon? |
| 01:08.07 | Charles_Murray | Alright, back with my toast |
| 01:08.25 | Charles_Murray | Depends on if you're winning or losing |
| 01:08.52 | Monet | S ofrowned upon if winning |
| 01:09.13 | Monet | "War's only fun if you're winning" - Martok |
| 01:10.21 | Patriot868 | To be fair, the majority of Americans don't know why we are there. Most people say its either the nebulos idea of Liberty, or "muh blood for oil". |
| 01:10.34 | Patriot868 | The truth, as alwasy, is far more complicated |
| 01:11.05 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 01:12.28 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ Monet Patriot868 : The Left Coast was settled first by El Norte. Then, Yankee settlers came pouring in hoping to civilize and save the backwards people which inhabited California, to replicate their ideal society in California |
| 01:12.41 | Charles_Murray | They were kind of successful, but then the Gold Rush of 1849 happened |
| 01:12.43 | Patriot868 | Sounds about right |
| 01:13.09 | Patriot868 | Yeah, the gold rush brought in a lot of diffrent people from around the globe even. |
| 01:13.29 | Patriot868 | Old Imperial German naval songs from that era mention heading to California for gold |
| 01:14.04 | Patriot868 | Plus, there was the first major import of Asians into the US, in the form of Chinese laborers. |
| 01:14.43 | Wormy_ | Californians seem to like projecting the image that they are liberal in politics, art and expression, as well as diversity. So that explains both? |
| 01:15.03 | Charles_Murray | Gold was discovered, and a massive wave of gold seekers â most of them from Apalachia â flooded the state, and a precarious situation ensued where no one nation had dominance over the other. Yankee idealism and universalism and Apalachian individualism melded to create a highly individualistic, yet socially liberal society |
| 01:15.14 | Monet | Wormy_: THat's mainly coastal Californians. |
| 01:15.24 | Wormy_ | I'm being generalist there but that's the impression we get, |
| 01:15.40 | Patriot868 | Thatst he impression most of the Country gets |
| 01:15.59 | Charles_Murray | Gay rights, women's rights, all of these are associated with personal freedoms, and the principle role of the individual is being the best version of yourself you can be |
| 01:16.13 | Charles_Murray | In New England, you are educated to be a citizen and a participant in society |
| 01:16.28 | Charles_Murray | In California, you are educated to be an individual, rebelling against society |
| 01:16.33 | Wormy_ | Of course we musn't forget Silicon Valley, which has the influence of individualist neoliberals |
| 01:16.35 | Charles_Murray | Against sheep mentalities |
| 01:16.42 | Charles_Murray | Er, no |
| 01:16.49 | Charles_Murray | I live in the Silicon Valley |
| 01:16.54 | Charles_Murray | That's what I'm describing :P |
| 01:17.14 | Patriot868 | California is massive of course, so you will find differing ideals all across the state |
| 01:17.25 | Wormy_ | My comment was a bit late |
| 01:17.55 | Charles_Murray | Unless you mean something different by 'neoliberal' than what I interpreted |
| 01:17.59 | Charles_Murray | If so, I apologize |
| 01:18.06 | Monet | Once you get off the coast ,away from Malibu, SanFran and towards the orange groves things get a bit more traditional iirc. |
| 01:18.29 | Patriot868 | Yes. Once you hit the mountains things are more traditional |
| 01:18.30 | Charles_Murray | Monet: You start to get into Far Western territory, so anti-government, anti-corporate |
| 01:18.34 | Charles_Murray | http://emerald.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/images/features/upinarms-map-large.jpg |
| 01:19.10 | Monet | Charles_Murray: I know Breaking Bad is set in rural Califonia, wasn't sure about going that far |
| 01:19.18 | Patriot868 | The further south you go, the more the Mexican influence is prevalent. Due to both the old colonists and new arrivals from across the border |
| 01:19.33 | Wormy_ | I meant that quite a few CEO's and tech company directors were inspired by Ayn Rand, who's Altas Shrugged was very much about the virtuous individuals (rich, smart etc.) rebelling against society |
| 01:20.04 | Charles_Murray | That's not really Ayn Rand. Rand is pretty universally reviled over here |
| 01:21.05 | Charles_Murray | Capitalism in the Left Coast takes the form not of wealth accumulation or leaving it to the market, but as a vessel for self-realization. And through self-realization, societal good occurs. |
| 01:21.12 | Monet | I mostly understand that from what media suggests coastal california - coffee shops, medicinal weed, yoga and neoliberalism while rural california is battery ranches, orange groves, illegal meth labs and hicks. |
| 01:21.38 | Monet | All an exaggeration I know |
| 01:22.00 | Wormy_ | Sorry, we might be on different wavelengths, I'm referring to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Californian_Ideology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Grace_(TV_series)#Part_1._.27Love_and_Power.27 |
| 01:22.10 | Patriot868 | Dpends on the enviroment Monet |
| 01:22.21 | Charles_Murray | Right |
| 01:22.29 | Patriot868 | The desert areas can get pretty sketchy in places, with regards to the law. |
| 01:22.42 | Patriot868 | Similarily, the majority of the pot is grown up north |
| 01:22.56 | Patriot868 | In an area called the Emreald Triangle |
| 01:22.57 | Monet | Patriot868: Yeah the whole 'hics and meth labs' I imagine is closer to Death Valley. |
| 01:23.30 | Charles_Murray | I'm steeped in these terms all the time, so 'neoliberalism' doesn't describe what the Left Coast is |
| 01:23.34 | Wormy_ | It just kind of made sense from what you was saying about rebelling |
| 01:23.50 | Patriot868 | For hard drugs, yes the desert is where its done. The Pot is on Oregon border |
| 01:24.00 | Wormy_ | Maybe in isolated pockets, I don't know |
| 01:24.18 | Patriot868 | ANd of course, there is drug trafficking along the coast by boats |
| 01:24.20 | Charles_Murray | Neoliberalism itself has a really convoluted and confused history as a term, depending on who uses it and what they're addressing. |
| 01:24.29 | Wormy_ | Oh hang on |
| 01:24.50 | Wormy_ | I used the wrong term, I meant libertarian |
| 01:25.02 | The_Randomness | yeah, figured that's what you meant to say |
| 01:25.11 | Monet | Rand might not be celebrated but her philosophies on free markets, self-actualisation and hands-off government were fairly key in the Californian mindset. |
| 01:25.17 | Wormy_ | But referring more to the market oriented kind |
| 01:25.35 | Charles_Murray | -Kind of-, that's a bit closer |
| 01:25.48 | Charles_Murray | But again, these labels aren't very useful |
| 01:25.57 | Charles_Murray | They obscure and generalize more than they reveal |
| 01:25.59 | Monet | Take Uber, which is trying to legalise the speedy cab. |
| 01:26.14 | Wormy_ | And if its the case, its kind of interesting how a liberal roots can lead to that area of political ideology |
| 01:26.19 | Patriot868 | Relegion is also a lot more decentralized on the coast |
| 01:26.21 | Charles_Murray | Which makes their analytical worth somewhat questionable |
| 01:27.04 | Charles_Murray | Libertarianism in California, again, is not understood primarily in the market sense, in the Ayn Rand sense that, for example, you would associate with Reagan. |
| 01:27.05 | Patriot868 | My town has a buddhist center, jewish temple, mosque, and churches for several christian denominations from Russian Orthodox to roman catholic |
| 01:27.52 | Charles_Murray | It is understood as individualism through the market and is adopted as an ideology which rebels against the sheep mentality of the society |
| 01:28.35 | Charles_Murray | To be a leader, to be admired and looked up to in California is to be a free-thinker, someone who does things differently, someone who is an outcast |
| 01:28.46 | Charles_Murray | So the paradox is that you are expected to stand out in order to fit in |
| 01:29.04 | Patriot868 | ^ |
| 01:29.08 | Patriot868 | You nailed it |
| 01:29.11 | Monet | The great irony is that in doing so they have created something of a replacement mindset. |
| 01:29.28 | Charles_Murray | Furthermore, the emphasis is less on what you make ($$$), and more on what you -do-. |
| 01:29.33 | Patriot868 | and thats one of the things that makes a lot of people here insufferable |
| 01:29.39 | Charles_Murray | All of these elements created the Silicon Valley |
| 01:31.07 | Charles_Murray | The worst job you can have in California is one where you're a sheep, even if it pays well, especially if you contribute to a broken system. The best job is one where you personally help change the world, even if you don't get paid very much. |
| 01:31.18 | Charles_Murray | If you get paid very much, congratulations you just won at life. |
| 01:31.50 | Charles_Murray | (if you get paid very much changing the world, that is*) |
| 01:32.04 | Monet | I'm slightly curious how the American Midlands are |
| 01:32.25 | Monet | I can talk a fair bit about the English Midlands, I'm curious how it differs from America's version. |
| 01:32.46 | Charles_Murray | What are the English Midlands? |
| 01:32.59 | DrodoEmpire | The midlands in England |
| 01:33.04 | DrodoEmpire | Christ Charles keep up |
| 01:33.06 | DrodoEmpire | >.< |
| 01:33.11 | Charles_Murray | Doh |
| 01:33.15 | Patriot868 | brb |
| 01:33.29 | Charles_Murray | Basic tautology, lol |
| 01:33.39 | Monet | Oh wait according to this map https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/EnglandGovernmentMidlands.png I'grew up jsut south of the Midlands |
| 01:33.54 | Wormy_ | In a way its kind of like the views of the working class who support conservatives in this country. Maybe not "changing the world", those sorts of views were until recent generation almost unquestionable. That was until Thatcher, and while I'm not supporter, it inspired those who no longer wanted to be owned by unions (such as mines) |
| 01:34.01 | Monet | Though I was raised ot understand that the border of the midlands is a fuzzy area |
| 01:34.24 | Wormy_ | *almost unquestionable - basically, silly to dream of such things |
| 01:34.36 | DrodoEmpire | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Planet:Tahai - Thoughts? Contributions? |
| 01:34.50 | DrodoEmpire | (This'll be the last time I promise >:) |
| 01:34.57 | The_Randomness | I'll check it out again in a little bit |
| 01:35.03 | DrodoEmpire | kk |
| 01:35.37 | Monet | Wormy_: "changing the world" in the Califonian sense is somethign like working for one of the local tech giants or creating a successful startup. |
| 01:35.54 | Charles_Murray | That's one way |
| 01:36.03 | Charles_Murray | Another is working in social entrepreneurship |
| 01:36.13 | Charles_Murray | Or getting involved in politics |
| 01:36.28 | Wormy_ | The Conservatives worked on inspiring people to work hard and be independent of support, create their own businesses, it was like it on a smaller scale/. |
| 01:36.41 | Monet | I lived on roughly the borer between the English SOuth and English Midlands. |
| 01:37.22 | Monet | border* |
| 01:38.37 | Wormy_ | I wonder if being a puritan style liberal and Californian style liberal is a matter of faith |
| 01:38.53 | Wormy_ | I see this dichotomy in modern debates within liberalism |
| 01:39.04 | Charles_Murray | Both are somewhat confused by religion |
| 01:39.31 | Charles_Murray | Yankeedom has moved past religion in its search for a better, more rational, scientifically constructed society |
| 01:39.40 | Charles_Murray | California sees it as restricting of personal freedom |
| 01:40.06 | Charles_Murray | Both see it as antiquated, both have a very prominent narrative of progress. |
| 01:40.56 | Wormy_ | I mean faith in tradition and values. You have progressives who on the extreme see a lot of it as colonial, unequal and needs dismantling. On the other hand you have liberals who believe that the traditions such as democracy and liberalism are self-correcting, and that reactionary movements are dangerous to democracy i.e. Karl Popper |
| 01:41.03 | Wormy_ | But basically yeah |
| 01:41.38 | Charles_Murray | It depends on what you mean by tradition and values |
| 01:42.09 | Charles_Murray | California's tradition and values dictate that its members should always criticize and rebel against tradition and values |
| 01:42.15 | Charles_Murray | It's kind of meta |
| 01:42.15 | Wormy_ | Well Karl Popper argued for traditions of criticism in science or democracy, but these traditions themselves were also subjecto progress. |
| 01:42.42 | Wormy_ | They weren't infallible, in his mind, and undergo pressure from criticism |
| 01:43.43 | Charles_Murray | In Yankeedom, there is a very, very rigid definition of what it means to live in a just society, and "tradition and values" are seen as standing in the way of that. Yet, what is being defended is a rigid set of traditions and values which are evolving, but operate on the same basis |
| 01:44.08 | DrodoEmpire | Charles_Murray: "Hah! Your primitive kind cling to tradition! We've rejected tradition long ago, and criticize it at every turn. Its what we've done for generations." |
| 01:44.14 | DrodoEmpire | HMM... |
| 01:44.19 | Charles_Murray | lol |
| 01:44.32 | Wormy_ | I've been kind of brought up in a way that defines the Californian model of liberalism, parents who are both kind of libertarian but also care about social justice and other cultural perspectives. But as I've gotten older, I've found myself aligning more and more to the Puritan model |
| 01:44.53 | DrodoEmpire | "Be yourself or face the consequences!" |
| 01:44.55 | DrodoEmpire | <.< |
| 01:45.06 | Wormy_ | Perhaps because I am inspired by epistemology and science, I dunno |
| 01:45.25 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire: From an outside perspective, all of these outlooks are hypocritical and a tad silly |
| 01:45.30 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah of course |
| 01:45.34 | Charles_Murray | Yet this is a matter of identity, of emotional attachment |
| 01:45.37 | DrodoEmpire | I'm just poking fun |
| 01:45.59 | DrodoEmpire | I do agree at least in part with both statements, I'm satirizing it |
| 01:46.12 | Patriot868 | I'm back |
| 01:46.14 | Charles_Murray | People are so invested in these concepts that they dictate how they see the world, and how they react to it. |
| 01:46.16 | Monet | By comparison I may have had a more traditional upbringing. |
| 01:46.28 | Charles_Murray | My friends in Yankeedom, for example, are -terrified-. |
| 01:46.34 | Wormy_ | My upbringing has been very unconventional |
| 01:46.42 | Charles_Murray | I mean, literally terrified, hurt, outraged, by what's been happening this election |
| 01:46.50 | Patriot868 | How so? |
| 01:46.58 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, they're acting foolish is how they're acting |
| 01:46.58 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 01:47.01 | Monet | I grew up with very middle-class parents. Divorced, but my mother stil ltried raising me the middle-class way |
| 01:47.06 | Charles_Murray | Not... Really. |
| 01:47.16 | Charles_Murray | Unless everyone is by your standards, then yes |
| 01:47.23 | Charles_Murray | But that's politics |
| 01:47.42 | Charles_Murray | To study politics, for me, is to study why people think differently, why they disagree. |
| 01:47.52 | Charles_Murray | Why in certain parts of the country, Donald Trump makes perfect sense. |
| 01:47.59 | Charles_Murray | In others, he's Hitler come again. |
| 01:48.17 | DrodoEmpire | Right, being *so* emotional so as to be *terrified* is irrational. I understand where they come from, but their reaction is not a level-headed or reasonable one |
| 01:48.20 | Charles_Murray | In others still, he's silly but not that much of a threat in the face of a supremely capable and qualified candidate. |
| 01:48.38 | Monet | That's what makes America interesting for me. |
| 01:48.40 | The_Randomness | That's the group that I fall in |
| 01:48.52 | DrodoEmpire | So I disagree with it, Charles |
| 01:49.07 | Wormy_ | My mum comes from a working class background, but she was always rebellious like a child-mentality (in a good way) and moved home quite young. My dad, well he went backpacking around the world as a young man, and lived wild just as an experiment to see what it would do psychologically |
| 01:49.20 | Monet | I may have done it in the past but what is "culturally American" is very broad whe nyou look at the nuances. |
| 01:49.27 | DrodoEmpire | And I think its foolish for them to be hurt and terrified because daddy might build his big, beautiful wall |
| 01:49.28 | DrodoEmpire | <.< |
| 01:49.32 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:49.45 | DrodoEmpire | Oh wow |
| 01:49.56 | Wormy_ | So my parents have seen things |
| 01:50.25 | Wormy_ | Then when I was brought up, I was home educated twice, lived on a boat for a short while, and was given tremendous freedom |
| 01:50.45 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire : I can describe what the narrative looks like from their perspective, but what's important is that in their view of the world, the disastrous has happened. They were first given a dream, a realization of their ideals, which was then crushed by not one, but two antitheses to their worldview |
| 01:50.48 | Wormy_ | They were punks and attended many protests |
| 01:50.54 | Charles_Murray | The sense of crisis, of doubt, of hurt is real |
| 01:51.17 | Wormy_ | Monet: Funnily enough now my dad has taken on middle class tastes, like an obession with wine :P |
| 01:51.27 | Charles_Murray | If the circumstances were right, that could happen to any other mindset. |
| 01:51.33 | DrodoEmpire | Right, I'm sure they're conflicted right now, that's why I said I understand where they come from |
| 01:51.59 | DrodoEmpire | I also understand why people might not like Trump |
| 01:52.15 | DrodoEmpire | But *feelings* do not justify *irrational behavior* from *anybody* |
| 01:52.27 | Charles_Murray | Everyone is irrational o.o |
| 01:52.31 | Charles_Murray | That's why we have politics |
| 01:52.41 | DrodoEmpire | People can still look at things rationally |
| 01:52.44 | DrodoEmpire | That's why we have science |
| 01:52.46 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:52.52 | DrodoEmpire | And academics in general |
| 01:53.13 | Charles_Murray | Everyone believes that they are the ones acting rationally, and that everyone else is going crazy |
| 01:53.14 | DrodoEmpire | I do not like how your philosophy seems to rob people of their individual agency |
| 01:53.16 | Charles_Murray | That's the thing |
| 01:53.40 | Monet | Charles_Murray: The truth is everyone's acting crazy lol. |
| 01:53.45 | DrodoEmpire | Right, but there are allegations levelled against Trump (possibly coming from people like your friends) that are *objectively wrong* |
| 01:53.48 | Wormy_ | Perhaps the reason I sympaphise with Puritan liberalism is my personal way of rebelling against them. |
| 01:53.50 | Monet | Life is chaotic |
| 01:54.11 | DrodoEmpire | Which people get very much so worked up over despite them being false |
| 01:54.14 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire : And there are allegations being levied against Obama and Bernie Sanders which are objectively wrong |
| 01:54.22 | DrodoEmpire | Right, which isn't any better |
| 01:54.26 | DrodoEmpire | What's your point |
| 01:54.28 | DrodoEmpire | *? |
| 01:55.37 | Charles_Murray | My point is that everybody is operating within their own worldview, -rationally-, according to a set of parameters which are informed by their upbringing and historical experience. They use this to interpret the world around them, and they are more or less receptive to certain types of information, and construct narratives around very specific lines. |
| 01:55.37 | DrodoEmpire | Listen, I'm not saying people aren't inherently given to irrationality. What I *am* saying is that there *are* ways to look past some of the bullshit and attempt to eliminate bias from one's views |
| 01:56.37 | DrodoEmpire | RIght, people are biased |
| 01:56.53 | DrodoEmpire | There are ways to be as unbiased as possible, and there are things that blatantly aren't true |
| 01:56.55 | Wormy_ | People rationalise in the sense of interpretation and synthesis, but I do not believe people are automatically rational in the critical sense, that is, of their own theories. |
| 01:57.01 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:57.18 | DrodoEmpire | Crying about things that blatantly aren't true is not as valid as making actual criticisms or defenses based on facts |
| 01:57.22 | Charles_Murray | Either they're all irrational, all rational, somewhat rational, somewhat irrational, I don't particularly care either way. What matters is the reality that people are having fundamentally different conversations while discussing the same thing, and politics is a product about that. |
| 01:57.27 | Charles_Murray | is a product of that* |
| 01:58.01 | Patriot868 | So what are their views on trump if I may ask? |
| 01:58.13 | Patriot868 | I assume they see him as dangerous and irrational? |
| 01:58.25 | Charles_Murray | Who? |
| 01:58.40 | Patriot868 | Your friends that you mentioned who wre terrified of this election cycle |
| 01:58.41 | Wormy_ | Monet: Kind of the same with my mother's upbringing. And I think thats where my individualism comes from |
| 01:58.45 | Charles_Murray | And criticizing others based on your own views without understanding the own context within which their actions and beliefs make sense is participating in politics, not rising above them |
| 01:59.14 | Charles_Murray | Patriot868: Hitler come again |
| 01:59.22 | Patriot868 | I assumed so |
| 01:59.36 | Charles_Murray | And Hillary Clinton is seen as just as bad as him |
| 01:59.51 | Charles_Murray | Which is one of the reasons that the primary results are so devastating. |
| 01:59.53 | DrodoEmpire | Right, Charles, you're saying people are biased, and that their biases are informed by culture, etc. and because of these biases their starting point in a conversation might be slightly different than another person |
| 01:59.57 | DrodoEmpire | That makes sense |
| 02:00.14 | Monet | You can see it around the globe. |
| 02:00.29 | DrodoEmpire | However, what I'm trying to figure out is *is* Trump the next hitler? *Is* Hillary good/bad for the country? |
| 02:00.43 | DrodoEmpire | I don't particularly care for politics- I care about facts |
| 02:00.59 | DrodoEmpire | And I give people a bit more credit than you do apparently in the acquisition of these facts |
| 02:01.21 | DrodoEmpire | Its hard and you still might be a bit (or a lot) incorrect, but isn't the effort itself enlightening? |
| 02:01.30 | DrodoEmpire | Closer to the truth of the matter, even |
| 02:01.47 | Charles_Murray | 1) Speaking from an academic standpoint, no, the comparison is superficial, and (2) that depends on what you care about. |
| 02:02.06 | Charles_Murray | The narratives that exist in the public spheres about the world are very different from what they actually are |
| 02:02.22 | Charles_Murray | And often the truth is rigidly counterintuitive |
| 02:02.57 | Wormy_ | It is often counterintuitive, unpredicted, and even when known, uncertain. |
| 02:03.13 | Wormy_ | That I agree |
| 02:03.33 | Wormy_ | But its possible for some theories to be closer to the truth than others |
| 02:03.46 | DrodoEmpire | Well yeah that's what I'm saying |
| 02:04.03 | Wormy_ | I see different definitions of rationality being chucked around |
| 02:04.15 | Charles_Murray | Right, but those theories don't exist within the public sphere |
| 02:04.42 | Monet | "Al Quaeda was funded by the CIA!" |
| 02:04.46 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 02:05.24 | DrodoEmpire | Charles, I don't give a shit about this big public sphere I care about the truth of the matter and about facts, and, yes, I care about what is the objectively the best solution to problems I care about |
| 02:05.25 | Wormy_ | Not always, but I think the public can also be very receptive even if not absolutely correct |
| 02:05.29 | Patriot868 | Al quaeda is more of indirect creation of the CIA |
| 02:05.47 | Patriot868 | Caused by actions in the region more than anything else |
| 02:06.10 | DrodoEmpire | Is that possible to find out? |
| 02:06.14 | Monet | PAtriot868: Yeah. The CIA bankrolled Saudia Arabia wh oin turn bankrolled the Muhjadiin to kick the Reds out of Afghanistan. |
| 02:06.26 | DrodoEmpire | I think so, personally :p |
| 02:06.46 | Wormy_ | Right I really must go to bed, should have done 3 hours ago |
| 02:06.51 | Wormy_ | goodnight |
| 02:06.52 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire : It's highly complicated and uncertain, and probably won't take the form you expect, and will be debated endlessly until the end of time, but yes. |
| 02:06.58 | Patriot868 | Night wormy |
| 02:07.03 | Wormy_ | Its been interesting. |
| 02:07.13 | Charles_Murray | Monet : Not quite |
| 02:07.19 | DrodoEmpire | That's fine, but if I can make out a decent picture of reality I'm going for t |
| 02:07.21 | DrodoEmpire | *it |
| 02:07.46 | Monet | Charles_Murray: I might have muddles one or two steps |
| 02:07.57 | Charles_Murray | Those steps are important. |
| 02:07.59 | Cyrannian | Goodnight folks |
| 02:08.06 | Monet | But I definitely remember that the CIA didn't create what people know now ot b eAl Quaeda. |
| 02:08.42 | Patriot868 | no |
| 02:09.01 | Patriot868 | Not directly |
| 02:09.04 | Charles_Murray | Osama Bin Laden was a second son of a prominent Saudi Arabian construction family, and used their connections and some of their money to fund his operations first as part of the Mujahadeen, and later as the leader of Al Quaeda |
| 02:09.37 | Charles_Murray | Saudi Arabia the government had no part in it, as far as I know |
| 02:10.10 | Patriot868 | Pakistan had more of a hand in their creation than the Saudis did |
| 02:10.38 | Patriot868 | The pakistani ISI had a habit of funding extremists groups in the region |
| 02:11.07 | Patriot868 | But really it was a splinter group of Mujahideen |
| 02:11.47 | Patriot868 | They wanted to go beyond the Afghani civil war and be a centeralized network for Islamic fundamentalism. |
| 02:12.39 | Patriot868 | Al Quaeda translates to the "The Base", in refrence to them being the nerve center for a variety of fundamentalist struggles around the globe |
| 02:13.25 | Monet | There was a lot of support in the States for the Muhjadiin back i nthe 80s. |
| 02:13.39 | Patriot868 | Because they were agansit the big bad russians |
| 02:14.05 | Monet | I don't think anyone back then expected those brave freedom fighters to turn around and decry 'death to America' |
| 02:14.20 | Patriot868 | The USA did not understand Islam or the culture of the region. They still dont in most cases |
| 02:14.42 | Monet | WOuld it be fair to say what isn't udnerstood has changed? |
| 02:14.53 | Patriot868 | Yes. |
| 02:14.57 | Charles_Murray | Depends on who is in power |
| 02:15.11 | Patriot868 | The West has a bit betetr grasp of the region than in the 80s. |
| 02:15.21 | Patriot868 | Information wise |
| 02:15.29 | Charles_Murray | Ehhh |
| 02:15.34 | Charles_Murray | I wouldn't be so sure about that |
| 02:15.56 | Patriot868 | Yeah, actually, maybe not |
| 02:16.31 | Patriot868 | Iraq was an example of this. Every single thing that could go wrong during the invasion did go wrong due to bad planning and poor information. |
| 02:16.39 | Charles_Murray | Egypt's two revolutions? The American foreign policy establishment was struggling to formulate a coherent policy about both of those, fundamentally misreading what was happening on the ground. Still is fumbling around helplessly on that point |
| 02:17.24 | Charles_Murray | Syria? They misapplied the wrong lessons from Egypt and made a fool of themselves not once, but twice with Assad |
| 02:17.34 | Patriot868 | I meant people know more about the history of the region and the relegion than they did. Policy in the area is still FUBAR, and probally will remain so |
| 02:18.21 | Charles_Murray | How much people know about the region doesn't matter too much, and hasn't factored into politics as far as I've seen |
| 02:18.45 | Charles_Murray | What dominates how people see the middle east are dominant narratives, not new information. |
| 02:18.57 | Patriot868 | That is true |
| 02:20.40 | Charles_Murray | Monet Patriot868 DrodoEmpire : Though, in the end, that map, understanding why people vote differently, why they think differently, is what I study day in day out |
| 02:21.08 | Charles_Murray | (Also international relations, power politics, history, economics) |
| 02:21.10 | Patriot868 | A commendable study, to be sure. |
| 02:21.31 | Patriot868 | I enjoy that sort of stuff myself. Thats why I became a history major |
| 02:21.55 | Patriot868 | To study the past and correlate it to the present. |
| 02:23.29 | Charles_Murray | That's what causes me to facepalm at Sporewiki's political chat |
| 02:23.48 | Patriot868 | What aspect? |
| 02:23.58 | Monet | Strong opinions. |
| 02:24.17 | Monet | Missing why peopel vote or think differently. |
| 02:24.23 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 02:24.31 | Patriot868 | The issue is people take an insult to their ideology as an insult to them. |
| 02:24.45 | Patriot868 | Which I can see why, no one wants to be made a fool of |
| 02:24.45 | Charles_Murray | I wouldn't quite say that |
| 02:25.02 | Charles_Murray | That's pretty much a given, really |
| 02:25.14 | Monet | Discussion of political figures can often fall int othe trap of "how can these people vote for this person who I hate? Are they stupid?" |
| 02:25.20 | Charles_Murray | What we're discussing is people's very identities, and that's not going to change |
| 02:25.30 | DrodoEmpire | I'm sure its quite useful to know why people vote different ways |
| 02:25.34 | Patriot868 | Ok, I see |
| 02:25.52 | DrodoEmpire | But looking down your nose at us for actually taking a stance is pretty arrogant dude |
| 02:26.00 | Monet | It's very useful. Otherwise a discussion becomes an argument. |
| 02:26.19 | Monet | (knwoing why peopel vote different ways I mean) |
| 02:26.27 | DrodoEmpire | I'm capable of understanding why a side might think the way they do. I might think they're wrong but I can still understand *why* |
| 02:27.05 | DrodoEmpire | Not at the level or with the context Charles has no but saying that we're all doomed to just argue and point fingers is sorta silly |
| 02:27.16 | Charles_Murray | Uh. The arrogance is in presuming to impose your own imaginary on others. Then again, they're doing the same thing to you. It isn't that I'm browbeating the mere action, I'm just despairing at the futility of it all. |
| 02:27.28 | Monet | WIth a nation as socially diverse as the US, voters in Wyoming are often going to vote based on how the candidate's policies would affect them. |
| 02:27.31 | Charles_Murray | It's not a productive conversation, since you're just talking past each other. |
| 02:27.51 | Charles_Murray | A real, better conversation needs to happen based on facts, and on common values and interests |
| 02:27.55 | Charles_Murray | Like you say, Drodo |
| 02:28.17 | DrodoEmpire | I take a stance that I believe to be true. I'm capable of changing my opinions to fit the facts. So are many others. |
| 02:29.40 | Monet | A voter in New York City would not see the effects of building of funding a Great Wall of Mexico as much as a voter living in Arizona or Texas. SO the NYC voter won't be as bothered over it outside of connectivity issues. |
| 02:29.43 | DrodoEmpire | Right, which is what I tried to describe earlier |
| 02:31.06 | DrodoEmpire | I'm not imposing anything on anybody else, so when you say that most or all political discussions are futile and pointless and presuming what actions I take because you feel (or maybe even in fact are) above these sorta discussions I have to say that that is a conceited position :p |
| 02:31.23 | Monet | A voter in rural Utah will think that a president who advocates open homosexuality will be concerned while a Seattle voter would see the candidate as a hero. |
| 02:31.42 | DrodoEmpire | Pardon if it sounds like I'm rambling but this really bothers me about your attitude Charles |
| 02:31.46 | Monet | (-will think that) |
| 02:31.59 | DrodoEmpire | Maybe I'm just punching down at this point as you've already come to your conclusion |
| 02:32.44 | Monet | DrodoEmpire: Its fine to have an opinion, and to hold it. |
| 02:32.59 | DrodoEmpire | Oh, I know |
| 02:33.10 | Charles_Murray | Again, Drodo... I've argued with you on a ton of issues, and your imaginary is limited, just like everyone elses'. You judge, and that gets in the way. |
| 02:33.25 | Monet | The concern is when thought is not given for why the other party agrees with it when their opinions clash with yours. |
| 02:33.27 | Charles_Murray | You gather facts to judge, not to know. |
| 02:34.31 | Charles_Murray | What I'm saying is that that's the wrong conversation to have, with the added complication of it being with the wrong tools and the wrong concepts. |
| 02:35.00 | Monet | A traditionalist voter might see no proble mwith homophobia because he was raised to beleive homosexuality is wrong and humans generally don't like being told they're wrong. |
| 02:35.16 | Charles_Murray | Monet : It's more complicated than all of that |
| 02:35.25 | DrodoEmpire | What good are facts when you don't come to a conclusion about them? How do you come to a conclusion without passing judgement? |
| 02:35.38 | Monet | Charles_Murray: I parobably am simplifying it but its more of an example. |
| 02:35.57 | DrodoEmpire | WHat is your solution? |
| 02:36.00 | Monet | That and its 3:35am. I should probably be sleeping. |
| 02:36.35 | DrodoEmpire | What would a more constructive conversation besides what we normally see as politics be to you? |
| 02:36.50 | Monet | I could certainly elaborate but I worry I run the risk of boring people to death. |
| 02:36.52 | DrodoEmpire | I'm actually curious, as I want to put this crap to rest |
| 02:37.09 | Charles_Murray | (I'm not sure that's what I meant by 'judge';) |
| 02:38.25 | Charles_Murray | A conversation based on mutual respect, a recognition of difference, and of the right of each component to have its own discourse. Once that is accomplished, the conversation can turn to common ends: That these different components exist within a single state, with a responsibility to govern not for the benefit of one to the detriment of others, but to the shared benefit of all |
| 02:38.29 | DrodoEmpire | (Then how do you mean? To confirm preconceptions?) |
| 02:38.49 | DrodoEmpire | (Be biased in general, I suppose?) |
| 02:39.04 | Charles_Murray | (Not quite, but to attach a moral quality to things I think is what I'm trying to say) |
| 02:39.15 | DrodoEmpire | (Right.) |
| 02:40.54 | Monet | One thing I learned studying buddhism, as wel las looking at how scientific explainations are condensed into laymens' terms, is the proposal that thoughts and knowledge converted int owords carry a diluted, contorted or inaccurate degree of the full explaination. |
| 02:41.18 | DrodoEmpire | Right, so I *can* entertain a civil conversation if I *have* to :p, and I can recognise difference, naturally |
| 02:41.39 | DrodoEmpire | What do you mean by "the right of each component to have its own discourse"? |
| 02:41.51 | Monet | Whe nwe try to put what's i nour heads into words, what we try to say can be different enough from what is in our minds that it jsut can't be described verbally. |
| 02:42.36 | Tek0516 | Hello, seems I've been missing an interesting conversation. |
| 02:43.27 | Charles_Murray | Meaning that differences in values, in the ordering of society, in how localities address their problems, should be left out of the common conversation. When the components agree, they can come up with a common solution at the federal level. When they don't, they should recognize the right of localities to address the problem at the local level without looking to interfere as an ideological project. |
| 02:43.31 | Monet | I thin keven what I'm trying ot say is confusing |
| 02:44.17 | DrodoEmpire | See, I sorta disagree there as it seems to have serious implications |
| 02:44.44 | DrodoEmpire | I'll use an example, and let me know if I misunderstand |
| 02:46.17 | Monet | Value differences between regions is one of the reasons why federal governemnts work a little better whe ngiven a degree of autonomy. |
| 02:46.30 | Monet | why state governments* |
| 02:46.44 | DrodoEmpire | Let's say that in a country, there are, say, two provinces/cultures/whatever for the sake of argument. One culture is very egalitarian, democratic, individualist, etc., while another is very, say, sexist and racist, collectivist, and only participates in the democratic system in the interests of not starting a civil war |
| 02:46.54 | DrodoEmpire | Just as a very clear, exaggerated example |
| 02:47.07 | Monet | Alright |
| 02:47.36 | Charles_Murray | DrodoEmpire : Sounds exactly like 1860's America |
| 02:47.58 | DrodoEmpire | Are these two groups, totally at odds in almost every aspect, supposed to ignore eachother's fundemental differences for the sake of stability, and for the sake of reaching an agreement in areas they actually *can* have a level discussion at? |
| 02:48.25 | DrodoEmpire | I find that extremely hard to believe and, yes, "biased" here, morally reprehensible |
| 02:48.28 | Charles_Murray | Yes. It's either that or do the sane things and be two different countries. |
| 02:49.19 | DrodoEmpire | Actually let's be a bit more nuanced- suppose the second group is a minority, spread about the country so that the establishment of two different states is impractical |
| 02:49.21 | DrodoEmpire | Then what? |
| 02:50.23 | DrodoEmpire | It seems then the ignoring of differences would just lead to social pressure |
| 02:50.46 | DrodoEmpire | And also lead to a lot of potential violence, etc. |
| 02:51.21 | Charles_Murray | Then you have a real problem which historically is either solved by genocide, mass relocation of populations, forced assimilation, or not solved at all. |
| 02:51.48 | DrodoEmpire | Right, so we found a snag in your solution |
| 02:51.51 | Charles_Murray | So you're right, I have no answer for that, and the historical record has no examples of that situation ending very well. |
| 02:52.12 | Charles_Murray | Right, but my solution applies to very specific circumstances, not as a general rule |
| 02:52.20 | DrodoEmpire | Right, fair enough |
| 02:52.44 | Charles_Murray | America is unique in that none of its components are capable of achieving total hegemony over the others by a fluke of history and democraphics |
| 02:52.58 | Monet | Charles' idea works when we're talking about two groups who live in separate regions. |
| 02:52.59 | Charles_Murray | And so they ban together to form alliances in the form of political parties |
| 02:53.06 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 02:53.14 | DrodoEmpire | Alright, *now* I'm beginning to hear you |
| 02:53.22 | DrodoEmpire | And in this case I do agree with you, yeah |
| 02:53.23 | Charles_Murray | Which in turn are unable to gain dominance over each other. |
| 02:55.25 | DrodoEmpire | Right, so I think we reached something of an understanding |
| 02:55.29 | DrodoEmpire | I think that's good |
| 02:57.30 | Charles_Murray | Cool |
| 03:00.38 | Charles_Murray | Monet: To address the points you were trying to make earlier, it runs deeper than just a sense of tradition or what you've been taught |
| 03:00.51 | Charles_Murray | Your worldview puts you in a position where nothing else makes sense but what you believe |
| 03:01.10 | Charles_Murray | Intuitively, rationally, cognitively, emotionally |
| 03:01.23 | Monet | I get that |
| 03:01.49 | Monet | It was partialyl what I meant when I said the brain doesn' tlike to be wrong |
| 03:02.05 | Charles_Murray | Nor is it |
| 03:02.37 | Charles_Murray | There are elaborate narratives, social systems, rituals, and relationships which are built around the beliefs which you described which make contemplating otherwise not only cognitively difficult, but absurd and nonsensical. |
| 03:02.40 | Monet | When the brain's views are challenged, the external influence isn't just pressuring the person's ego, but their worldview. |
| 03:03.04 | Charles_Murray | To try and convince a person otherwise is not just to try to get them to see that they're wrong |
| 03:03.10 | Charles_Murray | That's a very arrogant way of looking at it |
| 03:03.21 | Charles_Murray | It's to try and convince them that 1 + 1 = 0 |
| 03:03.55 | Monet | SOmetimes it will feel like the perso nahs been tossed into a new universe where nothing makes sense. |
| 03:04.47 | Monet | It might be part of the brain's nature as a computer trapped in a nothingness it cannot percieve on its own. |
| 03:06.48 | Monet | So when confronted with an idea or point that conflicts with the brain's established knowledge, denial ensues. |
| 03:09.17 | Monet | Which is why convincing the brain it's wrong and the new information is right wil llead to more resistance. |
| 03:11.22 | Monet | In the example case, the brain long knows 1 + 1 =/= 0. And simply forcing it to accept that 1 + 1 = 0 will throw the brai ninto self-defense mode. |
| 03:14.52 | Monet | Because at the end of the day, the world we experience is the world the brain understands. And it will protect the logic it built to understand the world because otherise nothing would make sense. |
| 03:15.19 | Monet | Which...is sometimes the case I guess. (I think that's everything) |
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| 07:50.36 | Wormy_ | hi |
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| 09:28.16 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 09:28.23 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 09:55.18 | Wormy_ | Ghelae: Thailand space program https://www.facebook.com/flightorg/videos/10153834506338640/ |
| 09:56.56 | Wormy_ | unfortunately, not quite enough fireworks for escape velocity |
| 09:58.57 | Ghelae | It even has artificial gravity via centrifugal force. |
| 10:01.27 | *** join/#sporewiki AdmiralPanda (3a6b1c72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.107.28.114) |
| 10:01.32 | AdmiralPanda | hi all |
| 10:06.27 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 10:07.49 | AdmiralPanda | How goes things in your corner of the world? |
| 10:09.38 | Ghelae | It was sunny, but that can't last here so the clouds are building up in preparation to rain. |
| 10:09.58 | Ghelae | How about where you are? |
| 10:10.41 | AdmiralPanda | it's cold, especially cos I'm at my mum's house tonight and it's always colder here than my dad's |
| 10:10.59 | AdmiralPanda | it was really bloody windy and rainy last weekend though |
| 10:11.34 | AdmiralPanda | I'd make a Britain joke but the weather turned up to Australia really fast |
| 10:11.46 | AdmiralPanda | and by that I mean, Australian weather does nothing by half margins |
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| 10:12.39 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 10:12.52 | AdmiralPanda | hi |
| 10:13.01 | AdmiralPanda | I was just telling Ghel about how east coast whether went nuts last weekend |
| 10:13.10 | AdmiralPanda | weather* |
| 10:14.00 | Liquid_Ink | All we got was a day or two of rain. |
| 10:14.03 | Liquid_Ink | It was lovely. |
| 10:14.44 | Ghelae | Fortunately we don't have anything that bad on the forecast here. But then this is the East Midlands; the result of violent winter storms hitting the west coast by the time they reach this part of the island is that we get a slightly stronger breeze than normal. |
| 10:16.43 | Ghelae | So now it's the middle of summer what's going to happen is we're going to get a light drizzle and the maths department is going to worry about whether or not they can do the barbecue they have planned for us. |
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| 10:21.17 | Wormy_ | The East Midlands is pretty boring all seasons. We don't get as many storms and instead dreary constant drizzle in winter we don't get thick snow unless you live in the peaks (but they do), and heat waves are usually short. |
| 10:24.46 | Wormy_ | One does get reminders how small England is, when on some days you can still smell briny air from the coast, despite being flat in the middle. |
| 10:25.20 | Wormy_ | Typically sunny days with some breeze |
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| 10:25.30 | Groxkiller98 | Hai. |
| 10:25.44 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 10:26.07 | Wormy_ | Brits don't generally comprehend how small the isles are |
| 10:26.13 | Groxkiller98 | Whut? |
| 10:26.15 | Wormy_ | 100 miles is a long way |
| 10:26.21 | Groxkiller98 | What about my island?1 |
| 10:26.25 | Groxkiller98 | ?!* |
| 10:26.35 | Wormy_ | You are British? |
| 10:26.39 | Groxkiller98 | I am indeed! |
| 10:26.40 | Wormy_ | I rest my case. |
| 10:26.43 | Groxkiller98 | ... |
| 10:26.56 | Wormy_ | I say this and I'm a Brit. |
| 10:27.04 | Groxkiller98 | Ah. |
| 10:27.14 | Groxkiller98 | ...There's nothing wrong with Britain! |
| 10:27.46 | Ghelae | Context for Wormy's statement: |
| 10:27.47 | Ghelae | [11:24] <Wormy_> One does get reminders how small England is, when on some days you can still smell briny air from the coast, despite being flat in the middle. |
| 10:28.13 | Wormy_ | Well. There is nothing wrong with its size, because although it is small, the climate, landscape and culture is hugely varied, adding to the sense that it is bigger than it is. |
| 10:28.21 | Groxkiller98 | I live really close to a river, I can always smell it. >_> |
| 10:28.54 | Groxkiller98 | The Derwent can smell awful sometimes... |
| 10:29.06 | Wormy_ | Are you a Derbyshirian? |
| 10:29.18 | Wormy_ | Ay up duck |
| 10:29.37 | Wormy_ | Though there is another Derwent I think |
| 10:29.41 | Groxkiller98 | Yo! Not just Derbyshiran! |
| 10:29.48 | Groxkiller98 | I'm from the city itself. :P |
| 10:29.52 | Wormy_ | How do yothe |
| 10:30.05 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:30.18 | Groxkiller98 | River Derwent, Derbyshire. It's a nice spot, but smells bad in some areas. |
| 10:30.35 | Wormy_ | That smells wafting from wrong side t'brook |
| 10:30.41 | Wormy_ | Nottingham |
| 10:30.45 | Groxkiller98 | Yup. |
| 10:31.18 | Groxkiller98 | On an unrelated note, I need to figure out a naming system for Mithadorn ships. |
| 10:31.26 | Wormy_ | We are very proud of our county's illustrious past |
| 10:31.34 | Groxkiller98 | Hail the Queen! |
| 10:31.41 | Wormy_ | and countryside |
| 10:31.52 | Groxkiller98 | She's the oldest queen in world history now. |
| 10:32.05 | Wormy_ | I shall raise the flag of Derbyshire in salute https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Derbyshire_flag.svg/2000px-Derbyshire_flag.svg.png |
| 10:32.15 | Groxkiller98 | Nintyth birthday coming up. |
| 10:33.50 | Groxkiller98 | What kind of prefix could I have for Mithadorn ships? I was thinking HMS, but they have no royalty. |
| 10:34.11 | Wormy_ | Perhaps a term that represents the people. |
| 10:34.42 | Groxkiller98 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whatstandwell |
| 10:35.00 | Wormy_ | Nice place that |
| 10:35.07 | Ghelae | If you want HMS, you could have the "M" standing for "Mithadorn". |
| 10:35.15 | Groxkiller98 | Quaint. |
| 10:35.20 | Groxkiller98 | Hm. |
| 10:35.27 | Wormy_ | Especially Shining Cliff Woods |
| 10:36.14 | Groxkiller98 | I'm still not sure how I'd work it. |
| 10:36.19 | AdmiralPanda | Australians on the other hand rarely care about how big our island is |
| 10:36.27 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
| 10:36.28 | Wormy_ | I like the black guy who does tickets on the train who says "Now arriving in what-what-what-Whatstandwell!" Don't know if you've encountered him |
| 10:36.38 | Groxkiller98 | Never. |
| 10:36.51 | Wormy_ | He also calls Duffield "Duffield International" |
| 10:37.10 | Groxkiller98 | Every kayaked up the Derwent? |
| 10:37.22 | Wormy_ | Been on a canoe |
| 10:37.42 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:37.48 | Groxkiller98 | I've kayaked on it. My little vessel turned on it's side and dumped my in the water. |
| 10:37.59 | AdmiralPanda | You see, I hear names like Whatstandwell, and I think "whoever lives there must think their place has a pretty quirky name" |
| 10:38.06 | Wormy_ | Beware of Weyls disease |
| 10:38.08 | AdmiralPanda | and then I think "I live an hour from Dee Why" |
| 10:38.42 | AdmiralPanda | which reminds me, if I ever get beachfront property, I'm living in Manly Beech |
| 10:38.43 | Groxkiller98 | Ever heard of the town of Batman? |
| 10:38.55 | Wormy_ | Derbyshire has some pretty quirky names, many have Celtic and Viking roots. Towns like "Youlgreave", "Edale" etc. |
| 10:38.55 | AdmiralPanda | and yes, it is Beech, as in the tree |
| 10:39.15 | Groxkiller98 | Some Americans don't seem to realise that Brit's do odd names better. |
| 10:39.17 | Wormy_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Villages_in_Derbyshire |
| 10:39.26 | Groxkiller98 | Derby itself is a nordic name. |
| 10:40.18 | Wormy_ | Derwent is Celtic I think, for "valley of oaks" |
| 10:40.34 | AdmiralPanda | I still just think Australia has the best term for a generic location, which is "Whoop Whoop" |
| 10:40.45 | Wormy_ | Do you ever get out into the Peak District and Dales? |
| 10:40.51 | AdmiralPanda | gdi I need to have a space australian character for the fictionverse, but htat would involve being in the fictionverse again |
| 10:41.17 | Groxkiller98 | We Brits confuse everyone else with our version of English. |
| 10:41.38 | AdmiralPanda | iunno, have you heard Australian? |
| 10:41.51 | Groxkiller98 | Yeah. I can still get them, though. :P |
| 10:42.04 | Groxkiller98 | Ever spoken to an American tourist? |
| 10:42.35 | Groxkiller98 | "You alright, mate?" They turn pale. |
| 10:42.50 | Wormy_ | I've seen them around, but I don't tend to chat with them |
| 10:43.15 | Wormy_ | Thats because the Peak District was or is the second most visited national park in the world. |
| 10:43.15 | Groxkiller98 | Americans don't seem to understand asking if someone is alright is saying hello here. |
| 10:43.23 | AdmiralPanda | my personal favourite is european tourists actually |
| 10:43.28 | Groxkiller98 | I like by the Peak District. |
| 10:43.56 | Groxkiller98 | I'm in Derby on the edge right by it. |
| 10:43.57 | AdmiralPanda | especially from the more stick-up-the-arse countries, they just don't know how to respond |
| 10:44.03 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
| 10:44.08 | Wormy_ | lol |
| 10:44.08 | Groxkiller98 | True dat. |
| 10:44.44 | Wormy_ | "We Brits confuse everyone else with our version of English" - We do that to ourselves. I struggle to understand older generations from a few miles sometimes |
| 10:45.06 | Groxkiller98 | I remember a guy who asked me directions to town once. He sounded french, given his accent. |
| 10:45.59 | Groxkiller98 | I told him: "Sure, mate, just head back down the road and turn right. Then left. Then again. Then go right. Then look for the big grey box!" |
| 10:46.11 | Groxkiller98 | He didn't quite seem to follow. |
| 10:46.37 | Groxkiller98 | And that was my trying to be understandable. |
| 10:47.17 | Groxkiller98 | I read up on old English runes too. I write stuff in it as well sometimes. Messes with people. Quite fun. |
| 10:48.34 | Groxkiller98 | Even I struggle to read them sometimes... >_> |
| 10:49.08 | AdmiralPanda | the worst part about Australia is we're so general about things, like down the road can mean a block, a city, a few days' drive, or the other side of the country |
| 10:49.25 | Groxkiller98 | That's about the same here. |
| 10:49.27 | Wormy_ | Groxkiller: Isn't it strange I was posting how small England is and you immediately log on and we find out we live in the same county. |
| 10:49.33 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
| 10:50.06 | Groxkiller98 | "Down the road" can mean anything from around to corner to follow it to London. |
| 10:50.37 | Groxkiller98 | I have seriously been told that when asking the quickest route to London by road. |
| 10:50.37 | Ghelae | AdmiralPanda: The fact that "a few days' drive" is on a smaller scale than "the other side of the country" is the reason for the huge differences in our nations' sense of scale. |
| 10:50.56 | Ghelae | "A few days' drive" from here and you're not on the same continent. |
| 10:51.18 | Groxkiller98 | You can swim to France technically within a day. |
| 10:51.18 | AdmiralPanda | Ghelae: I never said there weren't reasons for our different sense of scale, just that we have the opposite situation in that specific respect |
| 10:51.40 | Ghelae | Yeah. |
| 10:51.55 | Groxkiller98 | http://www.effingpot.com/slang.shtml Some of our best slang. :P |
| 10:52.09 | AdmiralPanda | also I know there's a tunnel, but I still imagine a car just driving along the bottom of the ocean |
| 10:52.39 | Groxkiller98 | That's mostly for busses. |
| 10:54.14 | Ghelae | Groxkiller just implied that the cars do just drive along the bottom of the ocean. :P |
| 10:54.14 | *** join/#sporewiki Jepardi (591b4d42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.27.77.66) |
| 10:54.15 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 10:54.17 | Ghelae | Hi |
| 10:54.36 | Groxkiller98 | "Chivvy along," my favourite way to confuse people when I want them to hurry up. |
| 10:54.55 | Groxkiller98 | They're all like "What now? What language are you speaking?" |
| 10:55.09 | Groxkiller98 | The answer English confuses them even more... |
| 10:56.08 | Groxkiller98 | I... I might have issues. |
| 10:58.05 | Groxkiller98 | But... Yeah. Britain's great. :P |
| 10:58.56 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-7-152-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 10:59.01 | Groxkiller98 | WB |
| 10:59.05 | Wormy_ | Grox: http://www.theotaku.com/worlds/ayup/view/126135/the_derbyshire_dialect/ http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/dialect1.htm http://www.derbyshireuk.net/dialects.html |
| 10:59.56 | Groxkiller98 | :3 |
| 11:01.05 | Groxkiller98 | So... Now what? |
| 11:02.18 | Wormy_ | I say "utch up" to people who take up seat space |
| 11:02.52 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid2 (~Anders@195.19.236.2) |
| 11:02.59 | Groxkiller98 | I tell 'em to just move before I bodge 'em. |
| 11:03.57 | Groxkiller98 | That's how I solve most issues in Spore too... |
| 11:04.11 | Groxkiller98 | Drop stuff on it until it's no longer bothering me. |
| 11:04.36 | Groxkiller98 | That's a lot of bombs, considering I'm at war with every Empire in the galaxy, save the Grox. |
| 11:04.46 | Groxkiller98 | ...Which is ironic, considering my name. |
| 11:05.01 | Wormy_ | bodge is a good word |
| 11:05.05 | Groxkiller98 | Groxkiller - Allied the Grox. |
| 11:05.34 | Wormy_ | Maybe you are lulling the Grox into a false sense of security? |
| 11:05.51 | Groxkiller98 | XD |
| 11:06.41 | Groxkiller98 | There needs to be a Space Stage superpower that lets you just take over a huge area instantly. Like fanatical frenzy, but taking over every system within 10 parsecs. |
| 11:06.53 | Groxkiller98 | Just fly around using it. Overtake the galaxy! |
| 11:07.03 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-124-159-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 11:07.39 | Wormy_ | Too easy, but then again, Space Stage mechanics were pretty simplistic anyway |
| 11:07.48 | Groxkiller98 | Yeah. |
| 11:07.58 | Groxkiller98 | Make it cost 200,000 Sporebucks? |
| 11:08.09 | Groxkiller98 | I kind have too much money anyway in Spore. >_> |
| 11:08.34 | AdmiralPanda | everyone has too much money in spore |
| 11:08.42 | AdmiralPanda | once you find your first purple spice planet it's GG |
| 11:08.46 | Groxkiller98 | Like... I think I'm sitting on 100,000,000+ |
| 11:09.11 | Groxkiller98 | I have around 90 or so Purple Spice planets producing 100 Spice each. |
| 11:09.21 | *** join/#sporewiki Treebeard (52068dfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.6.141.253) |
| 11:09.25 | Groxkiller98 | That cost a lot of time to set up... |
| 11:10.00 | Groxkiller98 | But basically, I have nothing to spend money on, and an empire about the same size as that of the Grox... Maybe even bigger. |
| 11:10.21 | Groxkiller98 | Plus with every planet in every system settled and terraformed. |
| 11:10.35 | Groxkiller98 | ...But I'm hounded endlessly by everybody. |
| 11:10.56 | Groxkiller98 | I think I'm being attacked by three empires on average at all times. |
| 11:11.17 | Groxkiller98 | The cost of being so spread out. >_> |
| 11:11.39 | Groxkiller98 | I have literally no dense areas of colonies. Just a long branching... blob. |
| 11:16.06 | Ghelae | bbl bbq |
| 11:16.12 | Ghelae | (hopefully it doesn't rain too much) |
| 11:17.00 | Groxkiller98 | If we ever get a Spore 2, I hope the stages are longer, and have more depth. |
| 11:17.13 | Groxkiller98 | A tad bit of complexity would be nice too. |
| 11:17.21 | Groxkiller98 | ...And aquatic stage. |
| 11:18.25 | Groxkiller98 | I'm gonna log myself. Later. |
| 11:27.48 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-124-159-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 11:34.31 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid2 (~Anders@host-7-152-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
| 11:49.28 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian (uid97882@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btguwuvfkthvcwoc) |
| 11:49.29 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 11:50.43 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 11:55.09 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 11:55.35 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 11:56.20 | Monet | Hello |
| 11:57.57 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 12:05.44 | Cyrannian | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkjBFM3XAAAQvf6.jpg |
| 12:12.52 | ImpyDroid2 | Cyrannian: But who is Bernie then |
| 12:16.29 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 12:18.29 | Liquid_Ink | Bernie is still Grampa |
| 12:20.46 | Wormy_ | test |
| 12:23.49 | Cyrannian | Just got my final results and I got a first! |
| 12:24.30 | Technobliterator | :o |
| 12:24.32 | Technobliterator | niiice |
| 12:25.45 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@95.140.92.99) |
| 12:30.53 | Monet | Cyrannian: Nice. Excellent news! |
| 12:31.21 | Cyrannian | Thank you, I'm delighted :D |
| 12:33.38 | Wormy_ | I hear thunder. That might be Ghelae's university BBQ being spoiled as we speak. |
| 12:38.00 | Monet | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwJPUz5md7U Pulp Fiction x Spongebob. |
| 12:42.39 | Cyrannian | Technobliterator: http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/06/17/first-thing-ill-do-as-president-is-fuck-an-intern-in-the-oval-office-hillary-clinton/ |
| 12:58.32 | ImpyDroid | Cyrannian: Clinton has her priorities straight |
| 13:02.01 | Wormy_ | I agree with this assessment. Sanders was socialist for the US, but for European perspective we would call him a social democrat https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016 |
| 13:13.06 | *** join/#sporewiki Comrade_Vinny (46506626@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.80.102.38) |
| 13:16.38 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 13:18.41 | Comrade_Vinny | HEy Treebeard! |
| 13:29.34 | Technobliterator | hahahaha |
| 13:29.36 | Technobliterator | that was hilarious |
| 13:44.05 | ImpyDroid | ". Is he really a Tory ⦠or a wig?" |
| 13:44.08 | ImpyDroid | That pun |
| 13:45.11 | Monet | Brilliant pun |
| 13:47.31 | Wormy_away | indeed |
| 14:00.01 | *** join/#sporewiki Ghelae (05974408@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.68.8) |
| 14:00.01 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 14:00.07 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 14:01.57 | Wormy_away | hi |
| 14:02.27 | Wormy_away | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:02.37 | Cyrannian | best of luck |
| 14:02.42 | Wormy_away | Thanks |
| 14:03.28 | Wormy_away | Ghelae: I heard thunder in the distance, and now there is rain. Was that over the BBQ? |
| 14:05.21 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (uid149600@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdqemgkpjobivxks) |
| 14:05.29 | Ghelae | Yes, it was. |
| 14:05.52 | Ghelae | It started about half-way through, so we had plenty of time without it. |
| 14:06.39 | Ghelae | But it did mean the second half was spent under shelter. |
| 14:07.59 | Ghelae | The thunderstorm's still going on, but I left during a decently long break in the rain. |
| 14:10.27 | Ghelae | I think it's heading west. |
| 14:15.31 | *** join/#sporewiki Imperios (~Imperios@95.140.92.99) |
| 14:18.54 | Monet | Hello |
| 14:19.55 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 14:26.50 | Wormy_away | Ghelae: Luckily no-one was BBQ'd. |
| 14:27.03 | Ghelae | Indeed. |
| 14:27.34 | Ghelae | Which, given how many people initially took shelter under trees, was not guaranteed. |
| 14:29.05 | Wormy_away | I'd expect better from natural science students! |
| 14:37.51 | Cyrannian | http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/c/c6/AoirtaeIII.png/revision/latest?cb=20160610143638 http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/9/90/Aoirtae.png/revision/latest?cb=20160610143639 - take a look |
| 14:40.34 | Wormy_away | She is very convincingly human. I think you've nailed Spore's toughest challenge. |
| 14:41.00 | Wormy_away | Or humanlike |
| 14:41.24 | Wormy_away | Apologies, not been able to keep up with fiction at all this past year |
| 14:41.51 | Cyrannian | Thanks, spent a long time trying to get it right (I'll probably still tweak her from time to time) |
| 14:42.33 | Wormy_away | She is that character undergoing training, I recall |
| 14:42.43 | Cyrannian | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:Ortella - And she's an Ortella, the race the DCP probably consider Cyrannian Humans |
| 14:43.12 | Cyrannian | Aye, Dino, Oluap and I worked on a big fiction featuring her which should be uploaded next time dino is online |
| 14:43.59 | Wormy_away | Ah yes, trained by Master Ryen |
| 14:56.03 | Imperios | Hi |
| 14:56.13 | Imperios | Cyrannian: Humie |
| 14:56.37 | Imperios | Wait so they can be either normal human colours or yellow |
| 14:56.50 | Wormy_away | I wonder how an athletic human warrior would compare to a Radeon |
| 14:57.34 | Imperios | Radeons aren't very strong so if he manages to land a hit the human will easily win |
| 14:58.01 | Wormy_away | Cool, I imagine human endurance would play a role too |
| 14:58.29 | Imperios | I actually though it could play a part in a story where Radeons and baguettes interact |
| 14:58.47 | Imperios | A French team runs into a cave/runs away or something |
| 14:59.05 | Imperios | THe Divinarium team tries to catch up but fails |
| 15:01.24 | Imperios | Then they get to complain that humans evolved to be cowardly |
| 15:02.47 | Wormy_away | I imagine Grimbos, while they are immensely strong and have tough skin with sharp sticky out bits could be knocked over by a species of smaller stature due to their leg length relative to the abdomen. |
| 15:03.49 | Wormy_away | so one would have to avoid the long arms somehow while attacking the legs, also without getting kicked |
| 15:04.37 | Monet | Bolas could be very effective |
| 15:05.15 | Wormy_away | Grimbo strength is probably expressed in dragging the opponent like a ragdoll or tearing chunks of flesh out |
| 15:05.32 | Wormy_away | But not in lifting heavy weights |
| 15:06.53 | Wormy_away | Yes they would be |
| 15:06.56 | Wormy_away | Or ropes |
| 15:08.02 | Wormy_away | Its like the spider I saw taking on a bee the other day |
| 15:08.18 | Wormy_away | It had it caught on just one thread |
| 15:09.36 | Wormy_away | However, I was already trying to rescue the bee before it happened, so I intervened. |
| 15:10.19 | Wormy_away | Maybe it was carrying a super-disease that will wipe out the species |
| 15:13.16 | Wormy_away | I imagine the Capricornians are dangerous opponents even to the giant races |
| 15:13.36 | Wormy_away | With those jaws and talons they are all about attack. Like a dog. |
| 15:16.38 | Monet | I've had a thought just now: Trait atrophy among species. |
| 15:16.54 | Monet | I mean nails are a modification of the claw. |
| 15:17.06 | Monet | in humans and primates. |
| 15:17.17 | Wormy_away | lmao http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/05/24/obama-starting-to-rob-as-much-white-house-stationery-as-he-can/ |
| 15:17.47 | Wormy_away | I guess smaller jaw size and dentition too |
| 15:18.37 | Monet | Also cultural aesthetic standards. |
| 15:19.37 | Monet | For those capricornians who hold a dim view to combat, war and violence, would they see smaller claws as attractive? |
| 15:19.41 | Cyrannian | Wormy_away http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:Libertus#Physiology -Libertus are quite deadly naturally, despite their generally peaceful ways |
| 15:20.56 | Monet | I mena if Libertus are a peaceful peopel wouldn't society consider war-favoured features a "barbaric"? |
| 15:23.10 | Cyrannian | Hm, haven't thought of that before. Though I believe I mentioned it somewhere that large sickle-shaped claws are considered attractive |
| 15:24.12 | Monet | Historically attraction has had an underlying elolutionary slant |
| 15:25.22 | Monet | Wide hips or a 'healthy' girth in women for instance were once considered attractive because it was considered a sign the woman could provide many children. |
| 15:26.12 | Monet | Considering a large sickle-claw to be attractive I imagine would have a lot of social tones, since it means the Libertus is much more potent at rending flesh in combat. |
| 15:26.44 | Monet | I can see that sort of quality being admirable among the Taurans for instance. |
| 15:26.59 | Monet | Taurons* |
| 15:26.59 | Wormy_away | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:27.19 | Wormy_away | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:28.53 | Monet | IBM's sparing no expense on star power it seems |
| 15:29.07 | Cyrannian | Indeed |
| 15:31.50 | Tek0516 | Oh neat, we just had a group of 7 planes fly right overhead, in formation releasing trails coloured smoke. |
| 15:34.38 | Wormy_away | Chemtrails, breathe in that poison. |
| 15:35.03 | Monet | Wormy_away: Depends on the plane. |
| 15:35.19 | Monet | These sound like a flying quad. |
| 15:36.06 | Monet | Cyrannian: I merely like method in design is all. Appreciating the size of what is essentially a natural knife or sword has very martial overtones. Which would be thematically jarring on a species that is generally inclined ot be peaceful. |
| 15:36.33 | Monet | Unles you're going for an angle that the species is peaceful until disturbed and you should then run for the hills. |
| 15:36.48 | Wormy_away | If the planes are blue, it is probably the Sherif's Secret Police, safe to let your children play. If they are black, probably world government, keep your kids in doors. And if they are yellow, well nobody knows what those planes are. Just make yourself look big and stand your ground, they might flee |
| 15:37.41 | Monet | Wormy_away: Well they're spraying coloured smoke |
| 15:38.32 | Monet | So either Canadian Red Arrows or the Canadian government is releasing some kind of chemical weapon on itso wn people |
| 15:39.59 | Wormy_away | If they are blue, the chemical is probably precious pixie dust. |
| 15:40.28 | Wormy_away | If they are in other colours, its probably lulling you into a false sense of security |
| 15:40.40 | Monet | Tek0516: Was it these? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Snowbirds-orig.jpg |
| 15:41.17 | Wormy_away | Of course I ripped and adapted that from Nightvale, check it out https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ce/dc/83/cedc83ccbadb9c2a82fc840aa1473faf.jpg |
| 15:42.01 | Tek0516 | Monet: Yeah. It's the Queen's birthday IIRC, so probably something happening today. |
| 15:42.14 | Monet | Then Tek's fine |
| 15:42.37 | Monet | Unless the Candaian overnment is institutiong a mass cull on the queen's birthday. |
| 15:43.25 | Wormy_away | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:44.15 | *** join/#sporewiki Vincent20100 (46506626@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.80.102.38) |
| 15:44.53 | Tek0516 | Monet: Or the Queen is using chemtrails to reassert control over Canada |
| 15:45.48 | Treebeard | Hello Vincent |
| 15:46.06 | Tek0516 | Hello Vincent20100 |
| 15:46.14 | Vincent20100 | HEy! |
| 15:46.23 | Vincent20100 | What can I do for you? :) |
| 15:51.45 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapPlayer (badafdcd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.218.253.205) |
| 15:51.45 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapPlayer] by ChanServ |
| 15:51.56 | Wormy_away | hi |
| 15:52.05 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 15:52.13 | Monet | Hello |
| 15:57.46 | OluapPlayer | hi |
| 16:05.09 | Imperios | Hi |
| 16:05.41 | Imperios | Monet: But nails instead of claws is a simian trait in general |
| 16:05.43 | Imperios | I tihkn |
| 16:06.03 | Imperios | And it evolved because claws get in the way of climbing |
| 16:06.04 | Imperios | I think |
| 16:06.10 | Monet | Yes but those nails came from claws didn't they? |
| 16:06.15 | Imperios | True that |
| 16:06.22 | Imperios | But Libertus never evolved as climbers |
| 16:06.25 | Monet | Went fro mclaws to pointy nails t oround nails |
| 16:06.33 | Monet | True |
| 16:06.38 | Imperios | THis makes me think |
| 16:07.01 | Imperios | Cyrannian: I presume the Libertus diet would emphasise meat |
| 16:07.30 | Imperios | Like I doubt they would get much sustenance from plantlife so it probably plays a smaller role in their cuisine |
| 16:07.46 | Imperios | Unlike humans whose diet was mostly fruits and berries |
| 16:09.12 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5aff2ef1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.46.241) |
| 16:09.13 | Hachiman | Hi |
| 16:09.20 | Imperios | This could actually explain why Libertus are more peaceful as well |
| 16:09.22 | Imperios | Hi Hachi |
| 16:09.36 | Hachiman | Libertus need to harden up and go back to their raptor roots |
| 16:10.02 | Imperios | Being predators, there was probably less intraspecies competition among their ancestors than among, say, great apes |
| 16:10.12 | Imperios | I mean wolf packs are generally more tight-knit |
| 16:10.25 | Imperios | And that behaviour eventually extended to other species |
| 16:35.00 | *** join/#sporewiki Rock_From_Hell (43b553e0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.181.83.224) |
| 17:09.18 | Charles_Murray | test |
| 17:09.43 | Tek0516 | Hey Charles_Murray |
| 17:09.47 | Charles_Murray | Hey |
| 17:10.39 | Monet | Hello |
| 17:11.28 | Technobliterator | what the hell |
| 17:11.35 | Technobliterator | my phone just bricked completely for no real reason |
| 17:11.54 | Charles_Murray | What happened? :o |
| 17:13.38 | Technobliterator | It will not turn on at all or charge |
| 17:14.16 | OluapPlayer | it ded |
| 17:16.43 | Charles_Murray | rip |
| 17:19.46 | Tek0516 | Technobliterator: I had that happen last month. I know the feeling. :/ |
| 17:19.56 | Tek0516 | *two months ago |
| 17:19.57 | Technobliterator | How did you fixx it? |
| 17:21.04 | Tek0516 | I had to go to my phone company and get it sent out for repairs (under warranty) twice. I don't know what kind of phone you have though |
| 17:21.50 | Technobliterator | I literally just took my phone to the repair shop and something happened to it again : | |
| 17:22.45 | Tek0516 | For mine it bricked, got it fixed but then my mobile data wasn't working so I sent it out again. |
| 17:23.44 | Tek0516 | Ironically one of the times I picked it up someone else had the exact same problem on the same phone model. |
| 17:24.20 | Technobliterator | I wonder if they managed to accidentally break it at the repair shop |
| 17:24.28 | Technobliterator | I hope it doesn't cost much to fix a phone battery |
| 17:24.54 | Technobliterator | oh wow |
| 17:24.57 | Technobliterator | it's really cheap |
| 17:24.57 | Tek0516 | In my case it wasn't the battery, it was the actual phone board itself. |
| 17:25.11 | Technobliterator | yeah, I'm going to go ask wtf went wrong |
| 17:25.23 | Tek0516 | What phone do you have? |
| 17:30.00 | Technobliterator | Sony Xperia Z5 |
| 17:35.21 | Imperios | Hi |
| 17:35.53 | Imperios | Hachiman Monet: After our yesterday discussion about drow I realised one thing about them |
| 17:36.00 | Hachiman | Hm? |
| 17:37.10 | Imperios | Drow are dark-skinned, engage in various scams and schemes, revere spiders, and had a history of selling slaves |
| 17:37.15 | Imperios | They're fantasy Nigerians |
| 17:37.21 | Monet | Ouch... |
| 17:37.53 | Imperios | *have a history even |
| 17:38.20 | Monet | In the Forgotten Realms setting, the Drow were particiapnts in a great war between the great elven kingdoms. They lost and were banished underground. |
| 17:38.38 | Imperios | Now I want to have a drow prince character |
| 17:39.05 | Charles_Murray | Did Imperios miss last night's discussion about identity politics? xD |
| 17:39.32 | Monet | Probably. Imperios lived three hours ahead of me. |
| 17:39.34 | Hachiman | We don't actually have proper drow on the wiki |
| 17:39.48 | Imperios | What were you talking about? |
| 17:39.49 | Hachiman | Derevar used to be but I decided to take them in another direction |
| 17:42.12 | OluapPlayer | If you want "evil dark elf", we have those already |
| 17:42.17 | OluapPlayer | Xho's elves |
| 17:42.32 | Charles_Murray | Imperios : We were talking about the American election and I couldn't take it anymore |
| 17:42.49 | Imperios | Oh I remember this |
| 17:44.35 | Charles_Murray | http://pastie.org/private/ctpj7vkhazjmvfkruzruq |
| 17:50.55 | Technobliterator | uh, the Al Qaeda being funded by the CIA is not a conspiracy, the Bush Administration gave them $43 million at one point |
| 17:50.58 | Technobliterator | oh wait |
| 17:51.01 | Technobliterator | that was the Taliban |
| 17:51.10 | Hachiman | derp |
| 17:52.19 | Imperios | "Let's say that in a country, there are, say, two provinces/cultures/whatever for the sake of argument. One culture is very egalitarian, democratic, individualist, etc., while another is very, say, sexist and racist, collectivist, and only participates in the democratic system in the interests of not starting a civil war" |
| 17:52.29 | Imperios | That argument I definitely can agree with |
| 17:53.03 | Imperios | That's why I think we're kind of sitting on a steam cauldrom down here |
| 17:53.16 | Monet | Imagine the shitstorm if it turns out the US government did fund the radicals who were known to plow two planes into a famous landmark and kill 2000 people |
| 17:53.26 | Imperios | A federal government combining different nations is always unstable |
| 17:53.48 | Monet | They'd be supporting the ones responsible for *trying ot take out the US Military* |
| 17:53.50 | Imperios | It only works when united by ideology, or by force, or both |
| 17:54.57 | Monet | But that's my two cents anyway. Though technically there's a difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy *theory* |
| 17:55.27 | *** join/#sporewiki Treebeard (52068dfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.6.141.253) |
| 17:55.27 | Imperios | Or if it is wealthy enough not to care, i.e. Switzerland |
| 17:55.36 | Technobliterator | but guys we all know |
| 17:55.49 | Imperios | I wonder who is going to splinter first |
| 17:55.50 | Technobliterator | that mass shootings are just created by the Obama administration |
| 17:55.51 | Imperios | You, or us |
| 17:55.53 | Technobliterator | to take your guns away |
| 17:55.57 | Imperios | MUH GUNS |
| 17:55.58 | Technobliterator | MAKE MURCA GREAT AGAIN |
| 17:56.15 | Imperios | (I actually believe in muh guns so I'm digging my own grave here hur) |
| 17:56.22 | Technobliterator | also, gay marriage was legalised to suppress the population growth |
| 17:56.30 | Technobliterator | so that the Obama administration can enforce martial law |
| 17:56.34 | Technobliterator | actually |
| 17:56.39 | Technobliterator | I don't know how that conspiracy theory goes |
| 17:56.49 | Technobliterator | but they believe it's somehow Obama's fault |
| 17:58.20 | Monet | I disagree with any conspiracy regarding "they're taking our guns" on the principle that doing so is crapping one of the original principles of the the US COnstitution. |
| 17:58.58 | Monet | You don't fuck with the US constitution. |
| 17:59.06 | Technobliterator | the only problem with that is |
| 17:59.10 | Technobliterator | several presidents have in the past |
| 17:59.15 | Technobliterator | the McCarthy administration did |
| 17:59.22 | Technobliterator | the Patriot Act very recently did |
| 17:59.42 | Monet | And look what happened with the McCarthy administration. |
| 17:59.51 | Monet | Look at how universally reviled PATRIOT is. |
| 17:59.56 | Technobliterator | This is true |
| 18:00.01 | *** join/#sporewiki Ghelae (0597440c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.68.12) |
| 18:00.01 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 18:00.06 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 18:00.10 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 18:00.48 | Monet | In which cade I correct myself: You can fuck with the US constitution, just don't expect the public reaction to be pretty *at all*. |
| 18:01.23 | Technobliterator | yuup |
| 18:01.25 | Charles_Murray | Oh my |
| 18:01.30 | Charles_Murray | Here we go again |
| 18:01.42 | Monet | Which I'm done |
| 18:01.47 | Monet | I'm done* |
| 18:02.42 | Monet | I need ot run some errands anyway |
| 18:02.53 | Imperios | MUH GUNS |
| 18:02.59 | Imperios | MUH FREHDUUMS |
| 18:03.04 | Charles_Murray | 1) The Bush administration did not fund the Taliban; that is a conspiracy theory not unlike the guns one you are just ripping into, and 2) I don't really appreciate that straw version of the pro-guns argument. |
| 18:03.15 | Charles_Murray | Or any straw version of any argument. |
| 18:03.36 | Technobliterator | It's not a conspiracy |
| 18:04.24 | Technobliterator | And, I thought it was fairly obvious that I was just kidding when I cited Alex Jones there : | |
| 18:05.03 | Monet | Sometimes hard to tell with text |
| 18:05.06 | Charles_Murray | Yes, you're making fun of gun rights. |
| 18:05.52 | Technobliterator | Or I'm just making fun of nut jobs who actually believe that mass shootings are fake |
| 18:06.30 | Technobliterator | And who believe that gay marriage was legalised for any reason other than marriage equality |
| 18:06.47 | Charles_Murray | >.< |
| 18:06.49 | Charles_Murray | Techno |
| 18:06.55 | Charles_Murray | You don't understand American politics |
| 18:07.17 | Technobliterator | Do I have to understand them to make literal jokes? |
| 18:08.20 | Charles_Murray | Well, the implication is that either of the elements you just mentioned are real. |
| 18:08.26 | Charles_Murray | And take the form that you understand them to take. |
| 18:08.47 | Technobliterator | ok, I just looked it up, and |
| 18:09.15 | Technobliterator | None of these sources on the Bush administration giving the Taliban $43 million for fighting against drug use seem really reputable |
| 18:09.52 | Monet | The internet: Where bullshit and truth are damn-near impossible to tell apart. |
| 18:09.54 | Technobliterator | The story essentially is that they gave them money four months before 9/11 and then stopped afterwards |
| 18:13.09 | Technobliterator | But I am still baffled that you think it's appropriate to condescend to me or take offense to me literally making fun of a fringe group of crazy people, when I did not actually say anything regarding my thoughts on gun rights (and for the record, I believe in the right to own a firearm, but that it should be regulated) |
| 18:13.10 | Charles_Murray | Which makes absolutely no sense; the Taliban has no hand in the drug war (unless I'm wrong on that point and Afghanistan is a producer of Marajuana or cocaine) |
| 18:13.10 | Technobliterator | And now I'm going to bow out of this conversation because there are better ways to spend my time |
| 18:13.10 | Charles_Murray | Alright, I apologize for snapping |
| 18:13.11 | Monet | Was going ot say, how does funding Middle-Eastern radicals stem a problem that where the fuel is largely coming fro mSouth America. |
| 18:15.26 | Charles_Murray | I didn't exactly take offense. I'm just a little done with this chat making fun of made-up stereotypes. |
| 18:16.22 | Charles_Murray | The reality of gun rights takes a different form, in a different context, and makes no sense to an outside observer because it is premised on a different set of values and ideas. |
| 18:16.29 | Technobliterator | Like, I get why you're jaded given some of the conversations that have been going on here |
| 18:16.36 | Technobliterator | But you jumped to conclusions really quickly there |
| 18:16.46 | Charles_Murray | Alright, I apologize for that |
| 18:16.52 | Technobliterator | It's cool |
| 18:16.54 | Charles_Murray | I just woke up and am a little cranky |
| 18:17.04 | Technobliterator | yeah, like I said |
| 18:17.08 | Technobliterator | I get why you're jaded |
| 18:19.01 | Imperios | Well I think I understand why Americans cling to guns |
| 18:19.05 | Imperios | And I can relate |
| 18:43.05 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (bcddaf46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.221.175.70) |
| 18:44.48 | OluapPlayer | hi |
| 18:45.58 | Xho_Busy | hoi |
| 18:47.34 | Monet | Imperios: Yeah. the gun is osmething of a cultural icon in the States and it has its reasons for emerging so. |
| 18:48.06 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray_ (32b8eef8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.184.238.248) |
| 18:49.53 | Wormy_away | Charles_Murray, Technobliterator: Is this conspiracy the same case about the US funding armed groups in Afghanistan during the Cold War to fight the Russians, with those weapons ending up used in terrorism against the West? I've seen many scholars talk about that, though as far as I can tell that was a matter of the unpredictable nature of political evolution. |
| 18:51.33 | Wormy_away | Okay, reading through, wrong era |
| 18:51.42 | Wormy_away | You were talking about the Bush Administration |
| 18:51.59 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (adfc264b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.252.38.75) |
| 18:52.05 | Monet | We discussed the conspiracy you were thinking of last night. |
| 18:52.09 | Wormy_away | hi |
| 18:52.52 | DrodoEmpire | Hi everyone |
| 18:55.36 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 18:57.04 | Wormy_away | I don't think it is a conspiracy, but a genuine failing caused by Western intervention. But given that I can't remember much about it, I could be wrong. |
| 18:57.53 | Wormy_away | http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB57/us.html |
| 18:58.30 | DrodoEmpire | http://www.theonion.com/article/7-year-old-unable-maintain-single-cohesive-storyli-53078 |
| 18:59.48 | Wormy_away | I'm going to repost this http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/05/24/obama-starting-to-rob-as-much-white-house-stationery-as-he-can/ |
| 19:05.02 | Monet | DrodoEmpire: Still more cohesive than BvS lol. |
| 19:05.40 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 19:07.15 | Wormy_away | Found more about it here, but given its Wikipedia its no reliable source on its own. Also it looks as though there were reactions contemporary to the time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone |
| 19:07.20 | Imperios | Monet: MARTHA |
| 19:08.09 | Imperios | Monet: http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=194599/black-arrow#changelog Holy shit hunters are going to be necromancers in Legion |
| 19:09.08 | Monet | Is it me or are new expensions becomign increasingly aware of how frikking powerful Azeroth's adventurers are bcoming |
| 19:09.55 | Imperios | Yeah not the fan of how every player is a superman now |
| 19:10.47 | Monet | I liked the garrison comander element of WoD |
| 19:11.48 | Monet | This...might be over the top a little |
| 19:13.04 | Imperios | Admittedly the necromantic arrow is taken from Warcraft III |
| 19:13.07 | Imperios | So it is okay I guess |
| 19:13.57 | *** join/#sporewiki drom (~drom@unaffiliated/drom) |
| 19:15.41 | Wormy_away | hi |
| 19:17.23 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 19:30.34 | Imperios | Monet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmsfcnXsDHg |
| 19:30.38 | Imperios | Xho too |
| 19:34.03 | Monet | Not too familiar with the show its parodying |
| 19:46.31 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian (uid97882@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vwpgbynubazljznb) |
| 19:46.31 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 19:46.40 | Cyrannian | Hello |
| 19:46.41 | Treebeard | Hello |
| 19:47.14 | OluapPlayer | hi |
| 19:48.01 | Cyrannian | ~smash OluapPlayer |
| 19:48.01 | infobot | ACTION flings an anvil in OluapPlayer's general direction |
| 19:51.57 | Treebeard | catches the anvil and eats it |
| 20:00.19 | OluapPlayer | Shit E3 is in just 2 days |
| 20:00.29 | OluapPlayer | Maybe it's time to start updating the header |
| 20:02.14 | Technobliterator | mhm |
| 20:02.16 | Imperios | OluapPlayer: http://wowlol.ru/img4/44519f2c402a8dfc64d864f5b91ebbac.jpg |
| 20:02.22 | *** topic/#sporewiki by OluapPlayer -> SporeWiki! http://spore.wikia.com || Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23sporewiki/ || Collaborative Universes: Sci-Fi http://tinyurl.com/3ddvp7q Fantasy http://tinyurl.com/p9qau7l || Roleplay subchannels: #sporewiki-rp1 and #sporewiki-rp2 || Titanpad: https://titanpad.com/ || E3 2016: http://tinyurl.com/hsy9nj2 Get Ready |
| 20:02.23 | Technobliterator | Last year's was amazing |
| 20:02.33 | Technobliterator | Not sure if this year's is as exciting to me |
| 20:03.13 | OluapPlayer | Imperios: wowlol |
| 20:03.32 | Imperios | Hm? |
| 20:03.43 | OluapPlayer | You just linked me something |
| 20:04.38 | drom | Today is 10th June. |
| 20:04.50 | drom | I felt an urge to write "was" instead of "is" |
| 20:06.15 | OluapPlayer | Pretty good times for me, all things considered |
| 20:06.24 | OluapPlayer | Can't say the same for London |
| 20:15.39 | drom | Imperios "Refugees disagreeing about Ramadan burn their center down" |
| 20:15.47 | drom | Not a thing I see everyday |
| 20:15.52 | Imperios | Well |
| 20:15.55 | Imperios | Their fault hur |
| 20:16.30 | drom | Imperios: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36487781 |
| 20:17.05 | drom | The reason was their lunch meal "was too small" |
| 20:17.38 | Monet | Bit extreme. |
| 20:18.24 | Imperios | Did it happen in your country? |
| 20:18.45 | drom | I don't live in Germany |
| 20:18.50 | Imperios | Oh |
| 20:18.52 | Imperios | It's in germany |
| 20:18.54 | Imperios | Well |
| 20:18.59 | Imperios | Roasted kebab tastes quite well I say |
| 20:19.06 | drom | Kek |
| 20:19.55 | *** join/#sporewiki Xhu (bcddaf46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.221.175.70) |
| 20:20.00 | drom | There were burned down refugee/aslyum seeker homes lately though. All suspected to be lit by extremists. |
| 20:20.26 | drom | So all their postage and street addresses had been kept secret ever since. |
| 20:21.14 | drom | By the way, I'd finished the school. Forever. |
| 20:21.42 | drom | University next up |
| 20:21.54 | Monet | Wohoo |
| 20:21.55 | drom | Hello. Xhu. |
| 20:21.59 | Xhu | Hi |
| 20:22.06 | Xhu | And yes the spelling mistake is intentional |
| 20:22.15 | OluapPlayer | hu |
| 20:22.33 | Xhu | hu |
| 20:22.36 | Xhu | spo |
| 20:22.40 | drom | Xhuh? |
| 20:22.47 | Xhu | OluapPlayer: Believe it or not I'm making another Demon Slayers viedo |
| 20:22.49 | Xhu | video even |
| 20:22.57 | drom | Imperios: http://i.imgur.com/0IEsVex.jpg |
| 20:23.03 | OluapPlayer | A miracle from hell |
| 20:23.08 | Xhu | yuy |
| 20:23.42 | Xhu | Somehow I'm still getting subs even though my channel is rip |
| 20:23.43 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
| 20:23.56 | Wormy_ | Spo |
| 20:24.03 | Wormy_ | Hi |
| 20:24.37 | OluapPlayer | I get like an average of 55 subs every month even though I've not uploaded anything in like an year |
| 20:24.51 | drom | Xhu, could say the same for my dA page |
| 20:25.16 | drom | Wormy_: http://i.imgur.com/E4vy7ah.jpg |
| 20:25.40 | Wormy_ | owned |
| 20:27.52 | Wormy_ | http://phys.org/news/2016-06-universe-life-born-carbon-planets.html |
| 20:30.21 | Wormy_ | Nah, the universe's first life were spacetime defects that lived between 10^â43'rd and 10"â36'th second. |
| 20:35.55 | drom | Imperios Wormy_ Xhu: http://i.imgur.com/IKbT0NZ.jpg |
| 20:41.19 | Imperios | Xhu: http://cs629422.vk.me/v629422561/5946c/HD7KrcW9rf8.jpg |
| 20:41.31 | *** part/#sporewiki Treebeard (52068dfd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.6.141.253) |
| 21:10.44 | Monet | Quiet |
| 21:12.23 | drom | I'd talk lot about Fiction, but I quit it so. |
| 21:13.02 | drom | and this graduation party made me feel like a deflated doll now |
| 21:14.55 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, quite quiet |
| 21:17.31 | OluapPlayer | Nothing to talk about |
| 21:18.04 | drom | Stop urging me to returning to fiction yo. |
| 21:18.30 | DrodoEmpire | I'll stop, but, I mean... *sniff* |
| 21:18.41 | DrodoEmpire | ...Nothin'll be quite the same, y'know...? |
| 21:18.50 | DrodoEmpire | J-Just saying and all... |
| 21:20.35 | drom | looks around |
| 21:20.45 | drom | I don't see the problem? |
| 21:21.01 | DrodoEmpire | Joking, of course. XD |
| 21:21.13 | DrodoEmpire | Your choice whether to return or not |
| 21:23.29 | drom | http://www.kdrv.com/news/Witnesses_Say_Man_Lassoed_Suspected_Thief_at_Eagle_Point_Walmart.html |
| 21:25.10 | DrodoEmpire | Awesome. |
| 21:25.12 | DrodoEmpire | XD |
| 21:27.37 | drom | "Police respond to wrong house and shoot its homeowner" |
| 21:27.53 | drom | "Most bestiality is legal, declares Canada's Supreme Court" |
| 21:29.13 | drom | "Man dressed as Apple Store worker steals 19 iPhonesd" |
| 21:30.34 | drom | "Cybersport is officially recognized as a legitimate sport in Russia" |
| 21:30.59 | drom | All those headlines feels more like what I would find in a phone game, like Plague Inc |
| 21:35.51 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101 (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
| 21:35.57 | ZF101 | Hello all. |
| 21:38.48 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Bot (uid94017@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nwkdekvbuweavxyn) |
| 21:38.48 | Monet | Hello |
| 21:38.52 | Charles_Bot | Hey |
| 21:40.57 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101_ (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
| 21:41.37 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (adfc264b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.252.38.75) |
| 21:41.48 | DrodoEmpire | Back. >.< |
| 21:44.25 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101 (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
| 21:44.34 | ZF101 | Damn, my internet's buggy. |
| 21:44.38 | drom | Charles_Bot Monet: http://imgur.com/gallery/iTT1tN5 |
| 21:44.59 | Charles_Bot | Ohai drom ! |
| 21:45.43 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101__ (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
| 21:45.48 | ZF101__ | Jeez. |
| 21:46.01 | ZF101__ | I'm just gonna leave if this happens again. |
| 21:54.19 | Xhu | drom: "and that's why fps matter" |
| 21:57.36 | Imperios | Monet Xhu: There's one thing that bugs me about Apocalypse in the movie |
| 21:57.43 | Imperios | Why was his costume so modern and sci-fi? |
| 21:58.26 | Monet | I think it's meant to reflect his iconic costume |
| 21:58.49 | Imperios | But they removed the lips |
| 21:58.51 | Monet | Which looks something like this http://pre02.deviantart.net/56b1/th/pre/f/2015/170/2/9/apocalypse_wip_by_uncannyknack-d8xz4u2.jpg |
| 21:58.59 | Imperios | They could make the costume less techy |
| 21:59.30 | Imperios | The lips could look cool if Singer pulled a Heath Ledger |
| 21:59.39 | Imperios | That is made the lips painted on or tattooed |
| 21:59.51 | Imperios | He's an Ancient Egyptian so the tattos would work |
| 21:59.58 | Monet | I always found COmic|APocalypse's lips a bit off-putting |
| 22:00.17 | Monet | He looks like he has a rog-mouth. |
| 22:00.42 | Monet | frog-mouth in the comics* |
| 22:01.24 | Xhu | Well the entire aesthetics of the characters are modernised |
| 22:01.35 | Xhu | I prefer the move Apocalypse's look |
| 22:01.37 | Xhu | movie |
| 22:02.27 | Monet | They did try to make it look Egyptian kind-of |
| 22:03.11 | Xhu | Still bothers me that it said 3600 BC at the start |
| 22:03.24 | Xhu | there was no goddamn egyptians in 3600 BC |
| 22:04.07 | Monet | And that's just when he got trapped |
| 22:04.23 | Monet | Didnt' they say he had ben around for millennia? |
| 22:05.08 | Xhu | millennia before that yeah |
| 22:07.19 | Monet | WHich makes me wonder now what disasters and collapses he was responsible for since..well 5,600 years ago kind of restricts the nuber of great civilisations that could ahve been toppled |
| 22:08.41 | Tek0516 | And I'm pretty sure they mention some later stuff when describing him |
| 22:09.16 | Monet | Marvel does have an Atlantis and one of its major inhabitants is a recurring X-men/Fantastic Four hero/villain. |
| 22:09.36 | Monet | Problem is Marvel's Atlantis was always under the sea. |
| 22:11.36 | Monet | Teko516: Unless it's surviving followers trying to big-up his godhood it does seem unlikley he coudl clai mcredit for the sack of rome the great fire of London, the destruction of the six wonders of the ancient world etc. |
| 22:12.13 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/iM2ORby |
| 22:12.38 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/pqtCptx |
| 22:12.42 | Tek0516 | Monet: Well by later I just meant later that 5,600 years ago. |
| 22:15.00 | Xhu | dat gif |
| 22:21.43 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/SNM7z |
| 22:28.08 | Monet | BTW if anyone's interested I'm going to do some painting in about 10 minutes |
| 22:28.13 | Monet | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-HAPiE_EwqQ-45QRbCl4Nw/live stream link |
| 22:28.28 | Monet | I feel i nthe mood for some Battlefield 1 art |
| 22:28.42 | DrodoEmpire | Oh cool |
| 22:30.08 | Wormy_ | Two Steps From Hell, I think. |
| 22:30.21 | Monet | Wormy_: Indeed it is |
| 22:30.55 | Wormy_ | Used to listen to them and Immediate Music a lot when writing fiction |
| 22:37.29 | Wormy_ | I'm only seeing the "Please Stand By" |
| 22:37.51 | Monet | Yeah I know |
| 22:38.01 | Monet | I'm just preparing myself |
| 22:38.07 | Wormy_ | Just so you know encase you've already started |
| 22:38.32 | Wormy_ | Meanwhile, I'm writing up my last report |
| 22:39.54 | drom | Imperios that fucking face http://i.imgur.com/ESAn9YL.png |
| 22:41.10 | drom | Wormy_: http://i.imgur.com/mtmuP90.jpg |
| 22:47.01 | Wormy_ | seen'd |
| 22:48.29 | Imperios | AL-BAGHDADI WAS HOSPITALISED IN A BOMBING |
| 22:48.30 | Imperios | FUCK YEAH |
| 22:48.34 | Imperios | YEAAAAAAAAAAH |
| 22:48.58 | Imperios | ...oh wait this is not proven yet |
| 22:48.58 | Imperios | fuck |
| 22:49.04 | DrodoEmpire | Well if true that's good |
| 22:50.35 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@95.140.92.99) |
| 22:51.59 | ImpyDroid | Not confirmed yet but still |
| 22:52.31 | ImpyDroid | I wonder if al-Baghdadi is actually merely a figurehead used by the high ranked terrorists as a symbol |
| 22:52.38 | ImpyDroid | He only appeared once on TV |
| 22:53.44 | Xhu | "The Islamic Mandarin" |
| 22:54.26 | ImpyDroid | Xhu: I AM THE CALIPH |
| 22:54.54 | ImpyDroid | Well not exactly the Mandarin either, he does not even make speeches |
| 22:57.59 | ImpyDroid | Xhu Wormy_: https://i.imgur.com/O6HMfPP.png |
| 22:58.30 | Wormy_ | lol |
| 22:58.36 | Xhu | hhe |
| 22:58.37 | Xhu | heh even |
| 23:09.06 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:89f4:3944:25bb:608d) |
| 23:09.07 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 23:09.20 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 23:10.49 | DrodoEmpire | Hi! |
| 23:11.03 | DrodoEmpire | "As a C-section baby, i feel a distinct lack of respect. When Macbeth comes and terrorizes the country, I'm you motherfuckers only hope." |
| 23:11.22 | The_Randomness | I don't get it :< |
| 23:11.35 | DrodoEmpire | Ah. :p |
| 23:11.54 | DrodoEmpire | Its a Shakespeare reference, having to do with one of Macbeth's prophecies |
| 23:12.46 | The_Randomness | Yeah, that's the sort of thing I wouldn't remember from reading it a few years ago :P |
| 23:13.04 | DrodoEmpire | Fair enough lol |
| 23:13.10 | Monet | twas one of the wotches' prophecies |
| 23:13.13 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 23:13.18 | The_Randomness | yeah, I know that much |
| 23:13.23 | DrodoEmpire | I believe he was told that he would not be killed by any man born of a woman- so of course he was killed by a man who was born via C-section >.< |
| 23:13.26 | Monet | "you shall not be harmed by any man born of a woman" |
| 23:13.33 | The_Randomness | ah |
| 23:13.46 | The_Randomness | Just got back from meeting with a professor, I'll be helping with some data analysis for this one survey that looks at transient objects and such |
| 23:14.19 | DrodoEmpire | I presume Macbeth- who was at this point paranoid and depressed- took it to mean that he would not have to fear murder |
| 23:14.22 | The_Randomness | so, stuff like variable stars |
| 23:14.35 | DrodoEmpire | It wouldn't be the only prophecy he didn't think through well enough :p |
| 23:14.49 | DrodoEmpire | Huh, interesting |
| 23:20.11 | ImpyDroid | OluapPlayer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTZxmuL35U8&t=1m50s Santorakh |
| 23:20.39 | OluapPlayer | indeed |
| 23:21.43 | ImpyDroid | Just began watching this cartoon, starting with these guide shorts |
| 23:22.06 | ImpyDroid | Is the girl Santorakh-like in the show in general or just in the shorts? |
| 23:22.35 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 23:24.29 | ImpyDroid | Hi |
| 23:24.58 | OluapPlayer | I've never watched this |
| 23:26.48 | ImpyDroid | Right |
| 23:27.04 | ImpyDroid | So as I understand it it looks like a spoof of X-Files or something |
| 23:33.32 | ImpyDroid | So this like MLP + X-Files from what I gather |
| 23:33.41 | ImpyDroid | + Phineas and Ferb |
| 23:35.09 | OluapPlayer | Phineas and Ferb was fucking weird |
| 23:35.17 | OluapPlayer | what with one of them having a 2D Dorito-shaped head |
| 23:38.06 | ImpyDroid | The only thing I do not like is the Family Guy-esque animation |
| 23:38.18 | ImpyDroid | But at least it is not Steven Universe or Adventure Time |
| 23:38.31 | ImpyDroid | Yes strangely enough I do not like Steven Universe |
| 23:41.41 | Technobliterator | What even is Steven Universe? |
| 23:42.21 | ImpyDroid | Some cartoon about alien lesbian sentient rocks |
| 23:43.49 | *** join/#sporewiki Patriot868 (b8bddcc7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.189.220.199) |
| 23:43.54 | Patriot868 | hello |
| 23:44.03 | ImpyDroid | Hi |
| 23:46.48 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 23:47.17 | Patriot868 | hows it going? |
| 23:49.35 | DrodoEmpire | Well |
| 23:49.40 | DrodoEmpire | You? |
| 23:50.30 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5aff2ef1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.46.241) |
| 23:50.40 | Hachiman | Hi |
| 23:51.05 | Monet | hi |
| 23:55.52 | Patriot868 | I'm doing good |
| 23:59.23 | *** join/#sporewiki Groxkiller98 (520393e3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.3.147.227) |
| 23:59.28 | Groxkiller98 | Hai. |
