| 00:00.29 | *** join/#sporewiki Hellrock (43b553e0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.181.83.224) |
| 00:01.13 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 00:01.37 | Hellrock | Hello. |
| 00:12.47 | DrodoEmpire | test |
| 00:27.35 | Hellrock | Meh, does anyone mind if I just show a random video? Just curious to see what everyone thinks. |
| 00:29.46 | Technobliterator | Uh, no? I mean, if you're not posting offensive material, it won't really bother anywone |
| 00:32.02 | Hellrock | I doubt that it contains any offensive material. Just pure silliness. |
| 00:32.09 | Hellrock | No need to worry ^_^ |
| 00:32.23 | DrodoEmpire | Right, well, no need to ask |
| 00:33.21 | Technobliterator | Like, literally you'd have to either post fetish porn or nazi propaganda for us to really be offended |
| 00:33.42 | The_Randomness | lol |
| 00:33.46 | Hellrock | Does Mcdonalds count? |
| 00:39.57 | The_Randomness | Don't worry, you're fine |
| 00:40.30 | Hellrock | ðkk |
| 00:52.05 | DrodoEmpire | test |
| 01:20.51 | DrodoEmpire | ~seen dino82_ |
| 01:20.53 | infobot | dino82_ <d8dd47aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.221.71.170> was last seen on IRC in channel #sporewiki, 3d 4h 28m 50s ago, saying: 'bbl'. |
| 01:21.11 | DrodoEmpire | Hey Hellrock, what's your main fiction? |
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| 01:23.15 | Hellrock_ | Sorry had an error |
| 01:24.41 | Hellrock_ | '_' |
| 01:31.22 | Wormy_ | I like how Techno's concept of offensiveness has "fetish porn" up there with Nazi propaganda |
| 01:39.23 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 01:39.43 | DrodoEmpire | Meh, fetish porn is gross- Nazi propaganda's just funny |
| 01:40.01 | DrodoEmpire | So stupid its funny, so I wouldn't even care if you put that up |
| 02:32.38 | DrodoEmpire | test |
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| 03:04.13 | The_Randomness | Hello |
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| 08:21.22 | Jepardi | Hi |
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| 08:30.41 | ImpyDroid | Hu |
| 08:30.44 | ImpyDroid | Hi |
| 08:30.50 | ImpyDroid | Liquid_Ink: https://youtu.be/60S6cbU8Llo |
| 08:32.23 | Liquid_Ink | Attacking it's political freedoms is legitimate, although I don't think they should mock the Hajj. |
| 09:04.23 | ImpyDroid | True that |
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| 09:12.38 | DrodoEmpire | I don't see what's so wrong about mocking a religious belief. :p All religion is an idea, and ideas should be questioned, criticized, and mocked. Just because the idea is especially closely-held by people doesn't spare it from scrutiny |
| 09:13.48 | DrodoEmpire | Frankly, I find the idea of making a pilgrimage to an especially nice-looking rock to be a bit silly- but its their time that they're spending I suppose |
| 09:36.29 | ImpyDroid | Well it is part of their religion |
| 09:36.36 | ImpyDroid | I mean our religion has pilgrimages too |
| 09:36.41 | ImpyDroid | Most religions do |
| 09:37.04 | ImpyDroid | DrodoEmpire: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a9/fc/fc/a9fcfcbfdefff00516e5004f73c9af60.jpg |
| 09:37.36 | DrodoEmpire | Right, a few things- |
| 09:38.04 | DrodoEmpire | I understand its part of their religion. I still find it silly as I find religion silly (and often dangerous, but that's another topic) |
| 09:38.51 | DrodoEmpire | I also don't get "our religion"- I'm an atheist. :p If you mean Christianity in general (which has influenced western culture immensely) than sure yeah, and I still find it silly |
| 09:39.37 | ImpyDroid | True |
| 09:39.38 | DrodoEmpire | Again, it doesn't bother me so long as religious people keep it to themselves, and in western countries they do |
| 09:46.28 | ImpyDroid | The context of what Ink said was either worshipping the giant black stone as a sacred relic |
| 09:46.40 | ImpyDroid | Or not letting non-Muslims go to Mecca |
| 09:46.41 | ImpyDroid | Not sure |
| 09:51.29 | ImpyDroid | Liquid_Ink: https://youtu.be/TcdTr_XYm_I Here is one for your country BTW |
| 09:53.07 | Liquid_Ink | I saw Murdoch and had a surge of violent thought. |
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| 13:00.43 | AdmiralPanda | hi u |
| 13:00.54 | OluapPlayer | Hi |
| 13:12.30 | OluapPlayer | Did you give up on Dark Souls 3? |
| 13:22.08 | OluapPlayer | Technobliterator: http://66.media.tumblr.com/d12f6bade4285fb80a701be3a715e48d/tumblr_o7gui7DQMd1qm1mdgo1_1280.jpg |
| 13:22.24 | Technobliterator | ahahahahahaha |
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| 13:37.20 | AdmiralPanda | I haven't given up on DkS3, in fact I've hardly started it |
| 13:37.30 | AdmiralPanda | people bugging me to play it killed my interest in it, plus I need to get a controller |
| 13:40.11 | AdmiralPanda | brb |
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| 13:41.26 | OluapPlayer | Well I'm sorry then, I was just wondering since I've only seen you play once |
| 13:45.39 | ShogunPanda | working up to playing it again, though I do need a new controller |
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| 14:00.27 | Monet | Hello |
| 14:00.38 | Ghelae | Hello. |
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| 14:38.23 | AdmiralPanda | fuck shogun 2 with a chainsaw |
| 14:38.43 | Tek0516 | O.o |
| 14:40.56 | AdmiralPanda | dumb thing can't decide if it's running or not running |
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| 15:22.49 | Wormy_ | Kim Jong Un Inspects Nature Museum and Central Zoo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=troGepNWVb0 |
| 15:23.03 | Wormy_ | The "Zoo" animals looked stuffed to me. |
| 15:23.56 | Wormy_ | Looks like they also put prehistoric animals that didn't coexist together |
| 15:38.24 | *** join/#sporewiki Imperios (~Imperios@95.140.92.14) |
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| 15:55.26 | Monet | THis makes me want to play rolelrcoaster tycoon |
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| 16:31.24 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5aff2ef1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.46.241) |
| 16:31.26 | Hachiman | Hi |
| 16:31.49 | AdmiralPanda | hai buniman |
| 16:32.50 | Imperios | HJi |
| 16:32.51 | Imperios | Hi |
| 16:33.12 | Imperios | Hachiman AdmiralPanda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-XiccZb7ZU Just watch this |
| 16:34.13 | Hachiman | hur |
| 16:34.29 | AdmiralPanda | if it weren't for the words, that would actually be great Imperium music |
| 16:34.35 | AdmiralPanda | which is what makes it that much funnier |
| 16:41.54 | Imperios | Wormy_: So I made a joke about America on YT and hordes of Republicans swarmed to say I am a neckbeard SJW Trigglypuff liberal |
| 16:42.06 | Imperios | For people who are allegedly against SJWs, they're very easy to trigger |
| 16:42.29 | Wormy_ | lol |
| 16:42.44 | Wormy_ | I've noticed that |
| 16:44.16 | Imperios | I'll give them that, because they're always on the assault, they do not feel offended |
| 16:44.26 | Imperios | But their trigglypuff tendencies are just directed outwards |
| 16:44.31 | Imperios | Then again the same can be said of SJWs |
| 16:58.23 | Wormy_ | I love it when regressives turn on each other. |
| 16:58.27 | Imperios | Wormy_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60S6cbU8Llo |
| 16:58.56 | Imperios | My dream is a melee a trois between SJWs, Neo-Nazis and Islamists in a controlled environment |
| 16:59.55 | Wormy_ | Impy: Here's an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqdUmgE1JN4 |
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| 17:01.00 | Wormy_ | Huff Post shared a picture of their all women editorial, saying it was equality. They were all white and so were accused of white privilidge |
| 17:02.00 | DrodoEmpire | lul |
| 17:02.20 | DrodoEmpire | Regressivism sorta consumes itself that way :p |
| 17:03.03 | Hachiman | >all women |
| 17:03.07 | Hachiman | Also not equality |
| 17:04.09 | DrodoEmpire | I'd figure employing whoever's best and not considering race or gender a factor would be equality. :p If the group still turned out to be 100% female then that's fine because they got there by merit |
| 17:05.23 | Wormy_ | Treating people as individuals based on their talent, personality, skills and knowledge is surely fairer than picking them by their outward features. |
| 17:05.29 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 17:06.44 | dino82_ | hi all! |
| 17:06.57 | Imperios | That being said if you see a group that is not achieving well you ought to do something |
| 17:07.05 | Imperios | Like invest in their education, do propaganda and shiet |
| 17:07.07 | Imperios | My opinion |
| 17:07.14 | Wormy_ | I really am disgusted by the concept of reverse racism. Sorry, but its just racism you egotist moral judges (not any of you guys) |
| 17:07.24 | DrodoEmpire | I agree Wormy |
| 17:08.08 | Hachiman | Women do not not achieve as much as men because they are women though |
| 17:08.18 | Wormy_ | Imperios: If that's happening, there might well have less opportunities or are being picked unfairly, once again by someone choosing them *not* as individuals. |
| 17:08.20 | Hachiman | The women's wage gap doesn't exist after all |
| 17:08.25 | Imperios | That too |
| 17:08.50 | Imperios | I am actually confused about the whole wage gap thing |
| 17:08.54 | Imperios | I ought to read more on it |
| 17:09.03 | Imperios | As far as I understand the fact isthat women in general work less |
| 17:09.13 | Hachiman | Yes |
| 17:09.23 | Imperios | Which is understandable because our society generally implies men have to provide for women because patriarchy and tradition and all that |
| 17:09.24 | Hachiman | Not as many women work as men and women tend to work less than men |
| 17:09.33 | DrodoEmpire | And Imperios I'd agree but it doesn't make sense to do that to a *group*, as if an entire demographic functions as a class with a similar experience. That being said, however, I am totally in favour of investing in the education of the poor- which would likely affect one demographic if they're for the most part downtrodden |
| 17:09.45 | Wormy_ | So do I, I hear people with strong opinions all around me, now I think there may well be truth to it since so many women complain about being paid less. So that perception is coking from somewhere. |
| 17:09.55 | Wormy_ | *coming |
| 17:11.09 | DrodoEmpire | The earnings gap comes from the individual choices that differ between males and females- females *tend* to get degrees that gets them lower-paying jobs, they *tend* to work less hours on average, that sort of thing |
| 17:11.27 | DrodoEmpire | Its not about wages but earnings- Its illegal to arbitrarily pay someone less by the hour :p |
| 17:11.47 | Wormy_ | And yes it is true, the traditions of most societies have men being the providers. But thats changing at least in Europe and the US, and I hope that barriers to women getting good careers are broken. |
| 17:12.12 | DrodoEmpire | (Meanwhile, men tend to go into more dangerous or higher-paying jobs, and work longer hours. These are all averages though and there's tons and tons of exceptions) |
| 17:12.21 | Hachiman | They cannot be broken because they do not exist |
| 17:12.25 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
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| 17:12.46 | Wormy_ | (Yeah, I think the issue arises when women want to have longer working hours and so on) |
| 17:13.16 | Wormy_ | Women are taking less traditional roles now |
| 17:13.16 | DrodoEmpire | Well no, they |
| 17:14.04 | DrodoEmpire | *they're perfectly entitled to work very long hours, its just the individual choices of many women is that they don't always work as many as men. Again, there're many exceptions and that's why averages are dangerous things |
| 17:15.54 | Wormy_ | And Hachi, are you saying that employers have no biases? Because in higher paying jobs, there isa inevitably going to be such people who consciously or unconsciously make unfair decisions, based not on individual talent. Those are the things that mikght be lagging behind. |
| 17:16.05 | Wormy_ | *might |
| 17:16.46 | DrodoEmpire | Right, individual employers may have their biases, but so? So does everybody. That's only a "problem" that will be solved with time. |
| 17:17.03 | DrodoEmpire | And presuming that these people are sexist or racist is no better |
| 17:17.38 | Wormy_ | I agree with the latter part of that. But when people shot down "oh there is no problem", there is going to be no good understanding between people who think there is, and those who think there is not. |
| 17:18.25 | Wormy_ | I'm sure liberal democratic societies have the machinery to solve the issue |
| 17:18.48 | DrodoEmpire | I don't really care if people think anything- Is there or is there not a problem? This is something that can be factually found out |
| 17:19.20 | DrodoEmpire | Yes, they can solve the issue of an unknown amount of people maybe having prejudices though some sort of orwellian mechanism. :p |
| 17:20.31 | AdmiralPanda | all we need to do is develop society to the point of true post-scarcity and the irrelevance of individual effort, and then, iunno, we spend all day playing video games or painting or whatever |
| 17:20.50 | Monet | I'd consider that a nightmare personally |
| 17:20.56 | Wormy_ | Doesn't have to be any Orwellian mechanism? The more women take higher paying jobs (and in fact, there is now more women studying STEM degrees in the UK than men), the more there will be and the older generations will be phased out. Plus with more diversity and understanding, people will be more aware of unconscious biases. |
| 17:20.58 | AdmiralPanda | and after a few thousand years of regression everything collapses because reasons |
| 17:21.01 | Monet | A world that's all leisure? BO-RING! |
| 17:21.40 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy_: Right, from how you worded that it almost sounded like you wanted these people weeded out |
| 17:21.45 | DrodoEmpire | Somehow |
| 17:21.58 | Wormy_ | I said I disliked reverse racism. |
| 17:22.04 | DrodoEmpire | Right right |
| 17:22.09 | DrodoEmpire | Sorry for the mixup |
| 17:22.37 | Wormy_ | Or reverse sexism in this case. |
| 17:23.40 | Wormy_ | Clue is in the "liberal democracy", I do not consider the Authoritarian left liberal/ |
| 17:24.04 | DrodoEmpire | Right, I apologised, I misunderstood, chill :p |
| 17:24.35 | Wormy_ | I'm more frustrated with the regressives than by this misunderstanding. |
| 17:25.31 | Wormy_ | It is perhaps only through liberal democracy women can take less traditional roles |
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| 17:25.45 | Wormy_ | In a fair manner |
| 17:25.48 | Wormy_ | Hi |
| 17:26.00 | DrodoEmpire | I'm given to agree |
| 17:26.15 | DrodoEmpire | Liberal democracy is egalitarian in nature |
| 17:26.20 | Ghelae | Hello. I've just had my final exam. |
| 17:26.28 | DrodoEmpire | Ah, very nice |
| 17:27.11 | Wormy_ | How did you think it went? |
| 17:28.08 | Ghelae | Fairly well. My best exam of the year, I'd say. |
| 17:28.49 | Wormy_ | Good |
| 17:29.01 | Ghelae | I'd like to say my best exam ever, because that would be nice, but I can't quite guarantee that. |
| 17:35.26 | Wormy_ | Drodro: Karl Popper's essays on Open Society might interest you, its an attempt to reconcile liberal democracy, social democracy, conservatism and libertarian forms of democracy into a theory http://www.iep.utm.edu/popp-pol/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper#Political_philosophy https://stephenwhitt.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/the-beginning-of-infinity-chapter-fifteen/ http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2016/01/ka |
| 17:37.04 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah I've heard some about him |
| 17:40.47 | DrodoEmpire | Hm, seems to be against the idea of history as a scientific process- I can't say I totally agree there |
| 17:40.56 | DrodoEmpire | I could easily be wrong though |
| 17:41.21 | DrodoEmpire | Seeing as such a method is quite a ways away from being devised, and any previous method is no doubt tainted by ideology |
| 17:42.40 | Wormy_ | Which bit is that? |
| 17:44.41 | DrodoEmpire | "it follows, he argued, that there can be no predictive science of human history." |
| 17:44.45 | DrodoEmpire | I disagree somewhat |
| 17:45.29 | DrodoEmpire | And my disagreement may have more to do with me thinking more on the level of geography and anthropology as opposed to pure history but I consider those two disciplines essential in the understanding and analysis of history |
| 17:45.47 | DrodoEmpire | World history, that is |
| 17:45.48 | Monet | He might be talking about patterns in events. |
| 17:46.36 | Monet | Oh wait I didn't see the "no" bit |
| 17:46.41 | Ghelae | What's the bit before "it follows"; as in, why does he come to that conclusion? |
| 17:47.12 | Wormy_ | Ah, I think thats probably part of arguing against induction, which is a philosophy that states that scientific knowledge is extrapolated by previous experiences |
| 17:47.32 | DrodoEmpire | "Since the growth of human knowledge is a causal factor in the evolution of human history, and since "no society can predict, scientifically, its own future states of knowledge"," |
| 17:48.00 | DrodoEmpire | This bit, and I disagree with this statement somewhat as well |
| 17:48.33 | Ghelae | Ah. It sounds like he's saying you can't use history to accurately predict the future. |
| 17:48.49 | Wormy_ | Which is inductivism |
| 17:49.41 | Ghelae | I wouldn't say that makes history unscientific; even if your idea of history-as-science involves predicting future historical events, it's still not useless in that regard. |
| 17:50.23 | DrodoEmpire | For me that highly depends on what timescale we're talking about- Naturally, we can't use history to project what human society will be like in the year 3200 |
| 17:51.06 | Wormy_ | In Karl Popper's conception of science, a scientist makes conjectures that are tested by observation and experiment, but importantly, not derived by past experience or observation. For Popper, attemptsto justify a hypothesis with such will create biases |
| 17:51.07 | DrodoEmpire | But we *can* use past events to piece together a likely sequence of events perhaps a decade ahead |
| 17:51.45 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy_: I suppose that makes sense |
| 17:52.20 | Wormy_ | I think he was against very much Marxism, which saw itself as an evolutionary processes supported by science. For Popper it was also, psuedoscience |
| 17:52.40 | Ghelae | Of course, the purpose of any discipline is an individual matter for the people conducting... but I'd suggest a better idea of history-as-a-predictive-science would be history that predicts the possible outcome of future historical discoveries. |
| 17:52.49 | Wormy_ | *very much against Marxism |
| 17:53.11 | DrodoEmpire | Ghel: Makes sense |
| 17:53.56 | Ghelae | e.g. it might predict that a future archaeological excavation of an ancient Roman settlement wouldn't show signs of Chinese influence. So from that point of view, history's ability to predict the state of world affairs in the 33rd century is utterly irrelevant. |
| 17:54.53 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 17:56.13 | Ghelae | And that even agrees with Popper's idea of falsification: if there did exist a historical theory about Sino-Roman interactions or lack thereof (obviously I know little of this; it's just an example) that predicted such a thing, then it could be falsified by, say, finding a Roman temple filled with Taoist scriptures. |
| 17:56.36 | DrodoEmpire | True |
| 17:57.15 | Ghelae | So, I disagree with the sentiment that history is fundamentally unscientific. |
| 17:57.32 | DrodoEmpire | (Also: The Roman Empire and the Han Dynasty did trade with eachother indirectly via the Silk Road/predecessor to the Silk Road, and it would appear both vaguely knew of the other's existence) |
| 17:57.37 | DrodoEmpire | (Just to confirm <.<) |
| 17:58.52 | Ghelae | (Right. Finding a Roman Taoist temple would still be unexpected though. :P) |
| 17:59.13 | DrodoEmpire | (Absolutely) |
| 17:59.15 | Monet | They didn't have enough contact. |
| 17:59.18 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 17:59.32 | DrodoEmpire | There were a lot of central asian peoples preventing any meaningful contact |
| 18:00.05 | Monet | But they served as an intermediary link. a middle-man |
| 18:00.15 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, exactly |
| 18:01.31 | Wormy_ | To explain "no society can predict, scientifically, its own future states of knowledge": This is basically saying we can't know what we will know in the future, and we can't know what problems we will face. True, we can make predictions, but we can't justify absolute certainty based on past experiences. Its like Global Warming, it was occurring while most scientists predicted global cooling would result in an ice age |
| 18:02.05 | DrodoEmpire | Right, right |
| 18:02.11 | Wormy_ | bringing civilisation to its knees, and global warming had probably begun before anyone was thinking about long term climatic trends |
| 18:02.21 | DrodoEmpire | Oh definitely |
| 18:03.28 | Wormy_ | I'm currently in a debate with someone who thinks she can be absolutely certain that Bangladesh will flood permantly, causing millions to move and cause war and poverty on a scale unseen in generations. |
| 18:04.30 | Wormy_ | Yet, she cannot be certain that other effects won't reduce that flooding, or that indeed technologies like geoengineering, could well save countries like Bangladesh. |
| 18:04.32 | DrodoEmpire | I mean if she has data to support this then I'd say she can say within a small margin of error that it will |
| 18:04.50 | DrodoEmpire | Perhaps, but what's the timescale on this? |
| 18:05.33 | Ghelae | "small margin of error" is what stops it being "absolutely certain". Actually permanent flooding is hard to justify over the course of eons, though. |
| 18:05.38 | Wormy_ | Over this century, most likely. And Bangladesh may well flood, but her prediction "that millions will die" is more shaky proposition for me |
| 18:06.14 | Monet | "that millions will die" sounds more like a threat for the conesquence if its ignored. |
| 18:06.17 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah that's a hasty thing |
| 18:06.30 | DrodoEmpire | But it *could* easily spark another migrant crisis |
| 18:06.34 | Wormy_ | People also predicted in the 1970's that half the world propulation would be starving by now, extrapolated from their present situation. |
| 18:06.44 | DrodoEmpire | Millions of people being displaced as their whole country sinks |
| 18:06.49 | DrodoEmpire | Hmm, true |
| 18:07.02 | DrodoEmpire | They didn't take into account the development of new technologies and practices |
| 18:07.14 | Wormy_ | yep |
| 18:08.57 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@95.140.92.14) |
| 18:32.02 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (bcddaf46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.221.175.70) |
| 18:32.46 | OluapPlayer | hi |
| 18:33.17 | Xho | ack |
| 18:37.42 | Wormy_ | https://twitter.com/DanielNorero/status/734137995993874433 |
| 18:37.56 | DrodoEmpire | olol |
| 18:38.14 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@95.140.92.14) |
| 18:46.35 | Wormy_ | https://twitter.com/DrFunkySpoon/status/733992261516709889 |
| 18:50.01 | Wormy_ | my eyes water at its beauty |
| 18:51.18 | DrodoEmpire | Jesus- That jet is absolutely *enormous* |
| 18:55.29 | Monet | Tidal stresses + low gravity = that. |
| 18:56.58 | Wormy_ | this track fits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XRjdj9AEAA |
| 18:57.55 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:603f:b77b:893e:d3ba) |
| 18:57.55 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
| 18:58.22 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 18:59.50 | Wormy_ | To exemplify Monet's comment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Enceladus_moon_to_scale-PIA07724.jpg |
| 19:02.12 | Hachiman | >alien ocean |
| 19:02.18 | Hachiman | Oluap will have a fucking panic attack |
| 19:02.39 | Hachiman | Abyss full of ayy lmaos |
| 19:02.41 | OluapPlayer | Eh? |
| 19:03.02 | Hachiman | cus ur fear of oceans |
| 19:03.07 | Hachiman | and space |
| 19:03.34 | OluapPlayer | I'm not afraid of the ocean, i'm afraid of the deep sea |
| 19:03.38 | Wormy_ | Yet it probably contains a significant fraction of Earth's volume of water, or possibly more. Though most of it would be frozen |
| 19:03.48 | Wormy_ | *surface volume |
| 19:03.58 | Monet | Fear of the abyss. |
| 19:43.58 | Imperios | Monet Hachiman: http://cs633131.vk.me/v633131109/2d7e4/B7yXkuiFInM.jpg So I and a few friends of mine participated in a comic making contest yesterday as part of Comic-Con; each had to provide an OC, and I provided Thessina |
| 19:48.36 | Monet | The guy in Panel 4 brings all the girls. |
| 19:49.10 | Xho | Imperios: there is no god |
| 19:52.37 | Monet | http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/inside-virtual-realitys-brewing-piracy-and-exclusivity-arms-race/?utm_content=bufferee6aa&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer Oculus just got busted |
| 19:52.40 | Imperios | Thessina's giant eyes devour all life |
| 19:55.18 | Imperios | She'll probably have a few moe moments |
| 19:55.21 | Monet | The console war scarred a generation. So any effort to avert a VR headset war is good diplomacy in my books. |
| 20:11.25 | OluapPlayer | Xho Hachiman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pwe2ORfqLs |
| 20:11.45 | Hachiman | Oh God |
| 20:24.27 | DrodoEmpire | test |
| 20:57.23 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (495c6351@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.92.99.81) |
| 20:58.04 | Wormy_ | Hachiman: Bobby Beale kills again |
| 20:58.35 | DrodoEmpire | Hi charles |
| 20:58.40 | Wormy_ | A good blood splattering for Eastenders, it was. |
| 20:59.11 | DrodoEmpire | Hm, Wormy_ and Ghel and anybody else who knows this sorta thing- How would one even produce or maintain an antimatter weapon? How would you contain the antimatter in the warhead? |
| 20:59.37 | Ghel | With great difficulty. |
| 20:59.42 | Wormy_ | Containing antimatter is probably much easier than producing or collecting it |
| 21:00.01 | DrodoEmpire | Probably |
| 21:00.02 | Ghel | Yes; containing it could be done with a magnetic trap. |
| 21:00.16 | DrodoEmpire | Hmm, okay |
| 21:01.10 | Ghel | You do still need to have a very good vacuum, though: the trap keeps anti-matter atoms away from the walls of your container, but that's all. |
| 21:01.18 | DrodoEmpire | So an antimatter torpedo in and of itself might be a reasonably-simple weapon, though I don't like the idea of an active system needing to keep the thing from blowing up (a magnet needs to keep running) |
| 21:01.25 | DrodoEmpire | That's just really bad engineering. >.< |
| 21:01.37 | Ghel | Yes; even nuclear weapons have failsafes. |
| 21:01.43 | Wormy_ | It would be a very dangerous payload to say the least |
| 21:02.03 | Ghel | An alternative would be if there were some way to rapidly convert large amounts of matter into antimatter. |
| 21:02.20 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 21:02.22 | Ghel | In that case, you wouldn't need any antimatter in your weapon until it was at least en route to the target. |
| 21:02.33 | Hachiman | There is an easy solution |
| 21:02.34 | Wormy_ | The main natural source of antimatter would be stars, but even then collection would take a long time. |
| 21:02.35 | Hachiman | MAGIC |
| 21:02.38 | The_Randomness | zz |
| 21:02.38 | Hachiman | SPACE MAGIC |
| 21:02.52 | DrodoEmpire | Would there be any process that could rapidly convert matter to antimatter in that way Ghel? |
| 21:03.07 | The_Randomness | DrodoEmpire: Not unless you want to terribly break conservation laws, I'd imagine |
| 21:03.15 | The_Randomness | I think |
| 21:03.21 | DrodoEmpire | Putting any other concern like cost of miniturization aside |
| 21:03.30 | DrodoEmpire | *cost or miniturization |
| 21:03.41 | Wormy_ | I tried http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Delpha_Coalition_of_Planets/Technology/Industry#Matter.2FAntimatter_conversion:_Reversing_chirality |
| 21:04.26 | Ghel | You can do it without breaking conservation laws, although not via perturbative processes (i.e. the ones you can draw Feynmann diagrams of). |
| 21:04.44 | The_Randomness | Right |
| 21:04.49 | Wormy_ | Which is the method I used, as stated, it doesn't quite work |
| 21:05.17 | DrodoEmpire | Hm. |
| 21:05.22 | Ghel | Q-balls could work. I think skyrmions are another defect that might. |
| 21:06.22 | DrodoEmpire | In terms of production, what *would* the primary method be? |
| 21:06.35 | DrodoEmpire | I think the article mentioned really particle accelerators |
| 21:06.45 | DrodoEmpire | *reallg big |
| 21:06.46 | DrodoEmpire | *y |
| 21:06.55 | Ghel | If you don't have a matter-to-antimatter conversation device, really big particle accelerators would work. |
| 21:07.03 | Wormy_ | Easiest by far would be to collect antimatter particles created by stars with huge magmetic traps and wires |
| 21:07.08 | Ghel | I'd suggest putting it in orbit of the sun with a huge solar panel array. |
| 21:07.24 | Ghel | Or, yes, you could collect them from space radiation. |
| 21:07.32 | Ghel | Preferably by having the collector in orbit. |
| 21:07.33 | DrodoEmpire | So I mean, I suppose the most straightforward solution would be enormous, hyperefficient particle accelerators |
| 21:07.39 | Ghel | Powered by a huge solar panel array. |
| 21:07.52 | DrodoEmpire | Or that Wormy_ |
| 21:08.49 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (bcddaf46@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.221.175.70) |
| 21:09.29 | Ghel | The individual accelerators themselves don't necessarily need to be very large - the LHC is way longer than you need for creating antimatter - but you'd need a huge number of them to produce it in a significant amount. |
| 21:09.58 | Ghel | Although if you do have a really long linear accelerator, you can put more energy into each collision and thereby get more particles out. |
| 21:09.58 | DrodoEmpire | Fair enough |
| 21:10.40 | Wormy_ | What is the flaw with this method again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-orientable_wormhole#Consequences |
| 21:10.57 | DrodoEmpire | Seeing as the Drodo regularly construct orbital rings around their major worlds (with space elevators connected on to them), they definitely have the industrial capacity for such mass-production of accelerators |
| 21:11.20 | Ghel | Wormy_: a) antiparticles aren't just chirality-reversed particles; b) the Higgs mechanism flips particles between their two chiralities all the time anyway. |
| 21:11.33 | Wormy_ | I see |
| 21:12.44 | Ghel | An orbital ring could even have accelerators going around it, if there's room to spare (it's not like particle accelerators need to have a very large diameter). |
| 21:13.09 | Wormy_ | I wonder if I could make another use ut of non-orientable wormholes |
| 21:14.27 | Ghel | There's the "mirror matter" scenario, but that's all I can remember: https://arxiv.org/abs/1308.0896 |
| 21:15.41 | Ghel | Otherwise, they're just wormholes that make life inconvenient for people who pass through them by swapping left and right. |
| 21:15.45 | Xho | Man Game of Thrones tonight |
| 21:15.47 | Xho | that was just |
| 21:15.48 | Ghel | Might be good for practical jokes. |
| 21:16.45 | Wormy_ | Isn't mirror matter supposed to only weakly interact with "normal" matter? |
| 21:17.10 | Ghel | Yes. |
| 21:17.31 | Ghel | So it'd be a bit like ghost-phasing. |
| 21:17.56 | Wormy_ | That's what I'm thinking. |
| 21:19.25 | Ghel | Essentially, you'd be turning yourself into dark matter. |
| 21:19.54 | Ghel | If dark matter were the result of mirror matter, all of the "normal" universe would become invisible and intangible to you, but you'd have access to the world of dark matter instead. |
| 21:20.09 | Wormy_ | Ooh |
| 21:20.25 | Wormy_ | You know we never really explored dark matter in SporeWiki physics or tech |
| 21:21.20 | Charles_Murray | Well, we did have it manifest itself in hyperspace in the form of hyperspatial fog |
| 21:21.31 | Wormy_ | Of course, it would look like the same stuff as our portion of the universe, only the structure of the universe would be far denser |
| 21:21.44 | Wormy_ | Thats true |
| 21:22.33 | Wormy_ | Dark matter could be a number of things. |
| 21:23.45 | OluapPlayer | Sneaky hidden matter that explodes violently upon touch |
| 21:24.07 | Wormy_ | That... Wouldn't happen. |
| 21:24.20 | OluapPlayer | That's no fun then |
| 21:25.10 | Xho | Tourettes Guy remixes are making a comeback I see |
| 21:25.40 | Ghel | While we do have an explanation for dark matter in the form of hypermatter, I don't think we've ever explained how ships get into hyperspace in the first place. |
| 21:25.43 | OluapPlayer | I always heard matter and dark matter annihilate each other upon contact releasing a ginormous amount of energy |
| 21:25.54 | The_Randomness | no, that's matter/antimatter |
| 21:26.00 | OluapPlayer | Oh |
| 21:26.01 | OluapPlayer | OH |
| 21:26.06 | The_Randomness | matter doesn't even interact with dark matter as far as we know |
| 21:26.21 | OluapPlayer | God how did I not notice it was "dark" and not "anti" |
| 21:26.29 | Ghel | So, although I don't think it would realistically work (especially not with how hyperspace is currently described), we could say that non-orientable wormholes take ships into hyperspace. |
| 21:26.45 | Wormy_ | Only gravitationally |
| 21:26.46 | OluapPlayer | I knew of this, yet it went over my head completely |
| 21:26.49 | Ghel | Then hyperspace fog is mirror matter is dark matter. |
| 21:26.53 | OluapPlayer | Now I'm embarrassed |
| 21:27.14 | The_Randomness | Yeah, only gravitationally |
| 21:27.45 | Ghel | Dark matter could interact with matter, very weakly, although we don't know. That is the hope of the experiments searching for it. |
| 21:27.52 | The_Randomness | Yeah |
| 21:29.27 | Hachiman | Photino Birds ahoy |
| 21:29.35 | OluapPlayer | Now I know I'm completely disconnected from science |
| 21:29.44 | OluapPlayer | I used to be a massive nerd about this kind of thing |
| 21:29.56 | *** join/#sporewiki Imperios (~Imperios@95.140.92.14) |
| 21:30.08 | Xho | Dark matter is mostly theoretical from what I gather |
| 21:30.25 | Ghel | In the sense that it hasn't been directly detected, yes. |
| 21:30.29 | OluapPlayer | Dark matter is completely theoretical, there's no proof of its existence |
| 21:30.48 | The_Randomness | yes there is |
| 21:31.05 | OluapPlayer | How so, if it has never been detected? |
| 21:31.08 | Hachiman | There is only firm evidence pointing towards its existence - what it is and what it does is yet to be discovered |
| 21:31.10 | Ghel | Although it's a bit like saying normal matter is only theorised to explain the fact that we can perceive things, therefore we suppose that it is made out of some "matter". |
| 21:31.18 | Wormy_ | There is a huge body of evidence that it exists, like the rotational speed of galaxies |
| 21:31.22 | The_Randomness | ^ |
| 21:31.39 | OluapPlayer | I don't see how that confirms it but whatever |
| 21:31.41 | Ghel | The summary is that, not only is known matter insufficient to produce observed gravitational effects, it's also in the wrong place. |
| 21:31.44 | Wormy_ | However, like many things in science, it is not directly detectable or observed. |
| 21:32.16 | DrodoEmpire | OluapPlayer: ...Because the rotational speed of galaxies can only be explained through its existence |
| 21:32.24 | DrodoEmpire | Along with many many other phenomena |
| 21:32.32 | Xho | Like Kim Kardashian |
| 21:32.33 | Xho | c |
| 21:32.40 | OluapPlayer | Not up for this kind of discussion |
| 21:32.47 | Wormy_ | We don't know what dark matter is, of course. |
| 21:32.47 | OluapPlayer | Hence whatever |
| 21:32.48 | Hachiman | Kanye West is actually a being of pure dark matter |
| 21:33.04 | Xho | omg cuz hes black innit |
| 21:33.11 | DrodoEmpire | Its a different *sort* of observation but still an observation |
| 21:34.15 | Hachiman | The cause and effects of his ego cannot be created or influenced by conventional matter, thus he is a dark matter entity |
| 21:35.08 | Wormy_ | If we had strong gravitational senses, we would likely experience dark matter as easily as we see the Milky Way. |
| 21:35.31 | Xho | Hachiman: Therefore Kanye West is a Xhodocto |
| 21:35.39 | OluapPlayer | No |
| 21:35.43 | OluapPlayer | Kanye is a Taldar |
| 21:35.45 | OluapPlayer | That's canon |
| 21:35.50 | Xho | but r taldar xhodocto tho |
| 21:35.51 | Hachiman | Oh yeah hur |
| 21:35.56 | OluapPlayer | no |
| 21:36.04 | Xho | but r we all xhodocto tho |
| 21:36.08 | OluapPlayer | no |
| 21:36.11 | Xho | y not |
| 21:36.49 | Xho | The Xhodocto don't exist therefore neither does Kanye *DUNNNNN* |
| 21:36.55 | OluapPlayer | Amen |
| 21:36.59 | Wormy_ | This conversation sank from academic to hm, internet talk very quickly |
| 21:37.13 | Xho | strikes again |
| 21:37.16 | Hachiman | Wormy's getting PISSED |
| 21:37.24 | OluapPlayer | I'm done |
| 21:37.25 | Wormy_ | Good idea |
| 21:37.41 | Xho | bad idea bad wormy |
| 21:37.41 | Xho | bad |
| 21:37.44 | Wormy_ | I might just do that |
| 21:37.48 | OluapPlayer | Wow, okay then |
| 21:37.50 | Hachiman | It's a MONDAY |
| 21:37.57 | Hachiman | You don't get pissed on a Monday |
| 21:38.02 | Wormy_ | You don't. |
| 21:38.06 | Wormy_ | Lightweight |
| 21:38.28 | Hachiman | I feel like I just got roasted |
| 21:38.29 | Wormy_ | Did Oluap believe that? |
| 21:38.35 | Xho | "THE ÍDAY̵S ̨HA̶VÍ¡E Ì´NÍ¢Ǫ ÒMEÍ ANIÍNGÌ¢ ÌWÌHEN ALC̶OHÌ´O̧L I̶S INÍVÍO̵LVÌ·E̶D, THE ̸VÍOIÌ´D Ì´IS ÍAÍT̸ TÍHE ÍBÍOÌ¡TÌT̨OÍM ÍǪF̸ ÌAÍ ÌµGLAÍ¢SS" - Wormulon, 2016 |
| 21:40.19 | Xho | Well |
| 21:40.22 | Xho | It was going that way |
| 21:41.08 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy__ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
| 21:43.19 | Xho | Well |
| 21:43.27 | Xho | Odd IRC discussion anyway |
| 21:44.31 | Wormy_ | Just another day here |
| 21:44.44 | DrodoEmpire | And *I* started it >:D |
| 21:44.56 | Xho | no re |
| 21:46.25 | The_Randomness | This is interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyitF-6tBu4 |
| 21:47.27 | Imperios | Hachiman: "The cause and effects of his ego cannot be created or influenced by conventional matter, thus he is a dark matter entity" |
| 21:47.27 | Wormy_ | http://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED162/56018c7821cce.jpeg |
| 21:47.33 | Imperios | What about Justin Bieber |
| 21:47.53 | Hachiman | You're comparing Bieber to Kanye |
| 21:48.16 | Xho | That's like comparing a shit to a turd |
| 21:48.18 | Imperios | They share an ego |
| 21:48.23 | Imperios | And what Xho said |
| 21:48.28 | Hachiman | True |
| 21:48.31 | Imperios | IT is hard to differentiate between various forms of bad |
| 21:48.40 | Imperios | *their inflated ego |
| 21:49.09 | Imperios | https://youtu.be/1zQkzPyRuTc?t=36 ...Actually |
| 21:49.16 | Imperios | ...His new voice is... okay |
| 21:49.38 | Xho | Justin Bieber can sing no doubt but still |
| 21:49.49 | Hachiman | He went from imbecile to idiot |
| 21:49.50 | Imperios | I mean he started singing like a man |
| 21:50.02 | Imperios | And started expressing some emotions in his singing |
| 21:50.14 | Imperios | I still want to see him in a metal band |
| 21:50.29 | Xho | STOP MESSING WITH WESTERN CULTURE |
| 21:50.47 | Xho | this kills the xho |
| 21:51.06 | Wormy_ | He has already claimed to be a rockstar. |
| 21:51.13 | Imperios | SUPELIOL EASTELN CULTULE WILL DESTROY ZE PITIFUR WEST |
| 21:51.18 | Hachiman | But his music has nothing to do with rock |
| 21:52.06 | Wormy_ | Its like when Kanye declared himself the king of rock after Lemmy played at Glastonbury |
| 21:53.02 | Wormy_ | Funny year that, the Dalai Lama, Kanye West and Lemmy on stage |
| 21:53.14 | Hachiman | Yeah, that was an odd year |
| 22:15.55 | Ghel | The_Randomness: So I've just watched that video you linked to. I'm sure it's useful to talk about, and even have a name for, violation of freedom of choice (and, indeed, "violence" and "violation" do share a common etymology). |
| 22:16.27 | Ghel | Whether it should be called "violence", or whether violence is merely an apt metaphor... hmm. |
| 22:16.47 | The_Randomness | Yeah, I'm not expecting you to agree/disagree with it, but it's certainly worth thinking about |
| 22:18.20 | The_Randomness | Personally, I agree with the points he brought up in the video, i.e. violence is all about the denial of choice, but I also think that violence in certain situations is justified |
| 22:19.00 | The_Randomness | e.g. paying taxes - either you pay them or you get arrested, but it's necessary for our society to exist |
| 22:20.20 | Wormy_ | 3 minutes in, comparing doing art to cruelty, ugh |
| 22:24.20 | Ghel | Wormy_: I think the person who wrote that was writing a blatant artistic metaphor. |
| 22:25.19 | Wormy_ | I'm not really a fan of that kind of philosophy |
| 22:28.03 | Wormy_ | But I suppose there is a lot of hidden evils people do that limit other people. |
| 22:28.48 | Wormy_ | Like they say in the end, fascism most needs an unquestioning or charmed populace |
| 22:34.33 | The_Randomness | Right |
| 23:28.35 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
| 23:29.01 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 23:36.22 | *** join/#sporewiki dino82_ (d8dd47aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.221.71.170) |
| 23:44.48 | dino82_ | hi |
| 23:45.49 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 23:51.48 | Wormy_ | Huh https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13226913_1395590430461964_1111566664702181213_n.jpg?oh=6fb2bd213392f885c8470726126a9e8e&oe=57DCB097 |
| 23:55.03 | DrodoEmpire | AYY LMAO |
