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00:03.50 | The_Randomness | Technobliterator: We cleared A5S again, and we got the third tank belt in a row |
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00:26.59 | Technobliterator | Can't believe I'm doing this |
00:27.08 | Technobliterator | ~test |
00:27.08 | infobot | somebody said test was not funny |
00:27.13 | Technobliterator | Cool |
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08:03.59 | MedwedianPreside | Hello? |
08:04.29 | Liquid_Ink | Hello |
08:08.14 | MedwedianPreside | Who wants to interact with my empire later? |
08:40.00 | Ghelae | MedwedianPreside: It's best for you to ask that when you've got information in all of the important sections of the page (although the page certainly doesn't need to be finished), so that people will know whether it's something they'll be interested in interacting with. Okay, it's an oppressive militaristic dictatorship; what else? |
08:41.08 | Ghelae | It's also best for you to ask when there are more people active here (as long as you're not butting into a conversation). Although there are several people online at the moment, most of them are probably permanently logged in even while they're asleep. |
08:42.35 | Ghelae | Chances are that Liquid and I are the only people here who are currently active on IRC to answer your question, but neither of us are very active in the fictionverse. |
08:47.03 | MedwedianPreside | How would you rate what I have already added to the page? |
08:48.00 | Ghelae | I'm not the best person to ask for subjective opinions, but it all seems fine to me so far. |
08:49.53 | Ghelae | If you're not already planning to, it might be best to move the images in the "first glimpse" section to relevant places in the article once you've written them; or, it's more common to have a gallery at the end than at the beginning of a page. |
08:52.21 | MedwedianPreside | Is the scientific language that I used good? |
08:55.34 | Ghelae | "Ray weapons" is very non-technical. The bit about prehistoric cultures isn't my expertise but I can't see anything wrong with it; terms like "prae-proto-Medwedian" are rather long but I don't think it's incorrect. |
08:56.37 | Ghelae | Also, commas or spaces rather than stops should be used for large numbers. So "200,000 BE" or "200 000 BE" rather than "200.000 BE". |
08:57.11 | MedwedianPreside | I will flesh out technology later |
08:57.17 | MedwedianPreside | ray weapons... |
08:57.25 | MedwedianPreside | What would be feasible in hard-sci-fi? |
08:57.29 | MedwedianPreside | Lasers? |
08:57.33 | MedwedianPreside | Strong lasers? |
08:57.47 | MedwedianPreside | Lasers in various wavelengths? |
08:58.01 | MedwedianPreside | I mean infrared, ultraviolet, x-ray, etc... |
08:58.09 | Ghelae | Lasers can work. Of various wavelengths, yes. |
08:58.11 | MedwedianPreside | How do phasers work by the way? |
08:58.15 | MedwedianPreside | And is it true |
08:58.23 | MedwedianPreside | that laser rays are actually invisible |
08:58.32 | MedwedianPreside | because in space there is nothing to reflect the light? |
08:59.29 | Ghelae | Phasers are entirely fictional. They're supposed to be particle beam weapons of some kind, with unfeasibly convenient properties such as being able to, say, disintegrate people without turning the air in the path of the beam into superheated plasma. |
09:00.15 | Ghelae | And yes; since you can only see something when light from it enters your eyes, when there's nothing to scatter the light of a laser beam, you can't see it (unless it's pointing straight into your eyes, in which case you may have bigger problems). |
09:00.52 | MedwedianPreside | Why can laser beams then be seen in space? |
09:00.58 | Ghelae | They can't. |
09:01.37 | MedwedianPreside | Why does Rambo Nation and the Grox then all use visible lasers? |
09:01.45 | MedwedianPreside | Or do they use some other weapon that is visible? |
09:01.53 | MedwedianPreside | A method of handwaving would be |
09:02.10 | MedwedianPreside | either using the few hydrogen atoms that are scattered in space and saying that they reflect everything |
09:02.11 | Ghelae | They would be particle beam weapons of some kind. Probably a plasma, so the light is emitted when electrons recombine with ions. |
09:02.34 | MedwedianPreside | or using "vacuum tachyons" or other fictional particles that fill vacuum |
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09:03.11 | MedwedianPreside | Another question |
09:03.13 | AdmiralPanda | hi all |
09:03.15 | Ghelae | Hello |
09:03.32 | MedwedianPreside | a teleporter in ST works by disassembling an object into energy and assembling it at another location, right? |
09:03.54 | MedwedianPreside | By "Energy" they probably mean that the atoms will travel quickly to the destination where they will be assembled again. |
09:03.58 | MedwedianPreside | If a person is teleported |
09:04.07 | Ghelae | I think that's the only official explanation they've ever given. |
09:04.09 | MedwedianPreside | then the person basically is deconstructed |
09:04.22 | MedwedianPreside | and constructed at another location with all memories and the consciousness copied |
09:04.26 | MedwedianPreside | I think |
09:04.32 | MedwedianPreside | that the person who is teleported |
09:04.33 | Ghelae | By "energy", I think what it actually means is that the person who came up with the idea didn't know much physics. |
09:04.59 | Ghelae | And yes, you can say that such teleportation involves destruction and replication. |
09:05.08 | MedwedianPreside | does actually not experience anything past the teleportation |
09:05.10 | MedwedianPreside | because he dies |
09:05.20 | MedwedianPreside | and the teleported person is a copy |
09:05.20 | Ghelae | The philosophical issues of this have been discussed countless times. |
09:05.58 | MedwedianPreside | It is impossible |
09:06.02 | Ghelae | Essentially, the idea that the person must die implicitly assumes consciousness obeys some kind of continuity equation. |
09:06.11 | MedwedianPreside | for an experiment |
09:06.14 | MedwedianPreside | to be created |
09:06.26 | MedwedianPreside | to prove whether the person who is teleported actually dies |
09:06.39 | Ghelae | That's why it's metaphysics rather than physics. |
09:06.45 | MedwedianPreside | The consciousness is not subject to continuity in that case |
09:06.56 | MedwedianPreside | Let's say Person A is to be teleported |
09:07.06 | MedwedianPreside | Person A is the person before he enters the teleporter in the spaceship |
09:07.15 | MedwedianPreside | Person B is the copy of person A who is beamed onto the planet |
09:07.23 | MedwedianPreside | Person A dies, stops existing |
09:07.31 | MedwedianPreside | but Person B is a perfect copy of Person A |
09:07.34 | MedwedianPreside | with all the memories |
09:07.42 | MedwedianPreside | who thinks that he is Person A |
09:08.13 | MedwedianPreside | We should make a "Philosophy of Teleportation" article on this wiki |
09:08.18 | MedwedianPreside | with stances of various empires |
09:08.23 | MedwedianPreside | with various teleportation technologies |
09:08.39 | MedwedianPreside | and how they deal with "teleporation death" |
09:08.42 | MedwedianPreside | because I think |
09:08.53 | AdmiralPanda | it's really a pragmatist, optimist, pessimist situation, a pragmatist says it doesn't matter, an optimist says they're identical, the pessimist says well yeah the original died |
09:08.58 | Ghelae | Maybe we should; it would prevent us from going over this subject on here over and over again. But most teleportation on SporeWiki is actually literal movement through hyperspace rather than disassembly. |
09:09.05 | MedwedianPreside | that as soon as a philosopher proclaims his theory on that |
09:09.08 | Ghelae | What I mean by consciousness obeying a continuity equation is that consciousness can only move from one place to another by traversing the space and time in between. But there's no reason to believe this is the case: continuity equations are just the consequence of conservation laws, but there's no reason for consciousness to be conserved. |
09:09.14 | MedwedianPreside | most people will refuse to use teleporters |
09:09.40 | MedwedianPreside | because they will be afraid of being replaced with a copy and will not want to die |
09:09.43 | Ghelae | And if consciousness doesn't obey a continuity equation, it can teleport: that is, it can cease to exist at one point in spacetime, and then reappear at another point, but still be the same consciousness. |
09:09.52 | AdmiralPanda | btw, this is just a personal request, but could you try to use longer sentences rather than breaking one up into three or four segments? it just spams up the chatlog is all |
09:10.03 | MedwedianPreside | Okay. |
09:10.10 | MedwedianPreside | It is indeed a very interesting topic. |
09:10.24 | MedwedianPreside | We should create an article in the Fiction Universe concerning that. |
09:10.50 | AdmiralPanda | thanks, not getting up you, it's just easier to have one post taking up two to three lines than having that one post broken up across five or six, y'know |
09:11.33 | Ghelae | If teleportation by disassembly does exist in the SporeWikiverse, it might be useful to have such a page... I could write an essay in the http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:PGPS |
09:11.39 | MedwedianPreside | Conclusion: There are two types of teleportation. The first one is dis- and reassembly, which implies that any living creature which is teleported dies and that the teleported creature is a perfect copy with a different consciousness; variant 2 is hyperspace teleporation which does not induce this effect. |
09:11.50 | Ghelae | Erm, no. |
09:11.58 | Ghelae | I just explained why the teleported creature can have the same consciousness. |
09:12.24 | Ghelae | The consciousness being different requires one to assume consciousness *must* be continuous to be identical. |
09:12.30 | Ghelae | But there's no justification for this assumption. |
09:12.31 | MedwedianPreside | Assuming that consciousness is a (meta-)physical construct that is disassembled and copied too. |
09:13.00 | MedwedianPreside | Do you mean that when you enter the teleporter and press the big red button you wake up at your target point? |
09:13.00 | Ghelae | Again, an unjustified assumption. |
09:13.04 | Ghelae | Intuitive, maybe. |
09:13.13 | AdmiralPanda | many religions insist that the "essential self," to butcher a term I stole from philosophy, is separate to the physical self, as a point of note |
09:13.32 | MedwedianPreside | But the soul is disassembled and copied too, in that case. |
09:13.34 | Ghelae | But it's still based on imagining that consciousness behaves like matter. Even if there is some immaterial consciousness-holding "substance", it need not be continuous. |
09:14.01 | Ghelae | We had this discussion with somebody else a few weeks ago... |
09:14.27 | Ghelae | If I could remember when it was I'd just point you to the appropriate IRC log. |
09:14.29 | AdmiralPanda | yeah, if we seem kinda disinterested it's cos we've had this discussion multiple times before, and for us it's just retreading ground already covered |
09:15.30 | MedwedianPreside | I assume that consciousness is directly tied to the brain. The main evidence for the absence of independent souls would be that persons with damaged brains suffer damage of their consciousness (if the part of the brain that is responsible for vision is destroyed, the person is not only blind, but cannot imagine the concept of colors and seeing anymore). High technology may solve this problem for destructive teleportation |
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09:16.13 | MedwedianPreside | But the first experiments in teleportation that a civilization carries out usually result in the destruction and duplication of the respective objects, creatures and consciousnesses. |
09:16.23 | AdmiralPanda | people who were not blind initially can still imagine the concept of colours and seeing, like that's actually biological fact |
09:17.01 | Ghelae | Either that's just physicalism, and qualia don't really exist, in which case it's a moot point. Or it's arbitrary: just because consciousnes is attached to the brain when the brain is alived, doesn't mean it's destroyed when the brain is. |
09:17.07 | Ghelae | Basically, you're assuming that, when a volume of space goes from holding a consciousness to not, the only options are a) the consciousness is destroyed, or b) the consciousness has flowed out of the volume. |
09:17.16 | AdmiralPanda | ^ |
09:17.29 | AdmiralPanda | Ghel has it, no need to repeat |
09:17.55 | MedwedianPreside | I will be back in 2 minutes. I have to go to my solitary philosophy chamber. |
09:19.33 | MedwedianPreside | Back |
09:20.40 | MedwedianPreside | @Ghelae - Basically yes - a neural network (the brain) produces a consciousness and is tied to it. Damage to the brain results in damage to the consciousness. |
09:21.41 | MedwedianPreside | There are no possible experiments to prove or disprove the existence of the soul, unless some tier 0 civilization that is bored decides to build a supercomputer that simulates the soul... |
09:22.05 | Ghelae | And in the case that a soul doesn't exist, it's a moot point as to whether teleporters destroy it. |
09:22.31 | Ghelae | By "soul", I mean anything that possesses qualia. |
09:22.39 | MedwedianPreside | Consciousness is not soul. |
09:23.03 | MedwedianPreside | Consciousness is self-awareness, I think. |
09:23.28 | Ghelae | Consciousness in the neurological sense is the ability of a brain to integrate information from various channels. |
09:23.46 | Ghelae | "Consciousness" in the metaphysical sense is the ability to perceive qualia. |
09:23.48 | MedwedianPreside | But I think that consciousness is directly tied to the neural network of the creature; that creatures whose neural networks are too simple do not posess consciousnesses but are merely biological machines. |
09:24.31 | MedwedianPreside | Another theory would be that |
09:25.06 | MedwedianPreside | consciousness as in control that is independent from instincts is non-existent, but that intelligent species have very complex instincts. |
09:25.50 | MedwedianPreside | Those instincts go beyond the basics like "IF SEE ANTELOPE then KILL ANTELOPE then EAT ANTELOPE" |
09:25.52 | Ghelae | In this case, consciousness isn't something that can be created or destroyed, because consciousness isn't a "thing"; it's an action. Consciousness is something that brains do. |
09:26.11 | MedwedianPreside | Yes. |
09:26.19 | Ghelae | So worrying about consciousness being destroyed by teleportation of a brain is like worrying about, say, digestion being destroyed by the teleportation of a stomach. |
09:26.39 | MedwedianPreside | But the action is duplicated with the matter that performs it. |
09:26.58 | MedwedianPreside | The action (consciousness) of the teleport duplicate is not the same as the one of the initial object. |
09:27.08 | MedwedianPreside | It is not continuous. |
09:27.49 | Ghelae | But it's equally as unimportant as the non-continuity of digestion. Or running, or breathing, or any other action you can think of. |
09:27.59 | AdmiralPanda | actually, the manner in which the brain works is directly tied to its structure, so if you accurately replicated the brain, it would in fact function the same barring future alteration |
09:28.20 | Ghelae | Essentially, yes. This is one reason why it's unimportant. |
09:28.27 | MedwedianPreside | It may be relatively unimportant, but it still means that the person who is teleported knows that his existence will end. |
09:28.37 | Ghelae | That only matters if said person believes in qualia. |
09:28.44 | MedwedianPreside | By "his existence" I mean his actions, his consciousness. |
09:28.47 | Ghelae | It's qualia that are important for this. |
09:28.52 | MedwedianPreside | He will not awaken at the target point. |
09:29.05 | Ghelae | He believes he will if he doesn't believe in qualia. |
09:29.47 | Ghelae | Seriously. Read up discussions on this by people who don't believe in qualia. They believe they'll wake up, because physics doesn't care about the difference between their actions now and their action post-teleportation. |
09:30.19 | MedwedianPreside | But two different objects can not perform the same single action? |
09:30.24 | Ghelae | Setting the initial conditions for one system as being the end conditions of another system is completely physically indistinguishable from letting the latter system continue to run uninterrupted. |
09:30.40 | MedwedianPreside | The fact that the action is performed by another object is a difference! |
09:30.57 | Ghelae | As far as physics is concerned, no, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. |
09:31.14 | Ghelae | So unless you're arguing that consciousness is non-physical (i.e. qualia), it doesn't matter. |
09:31.23 | MedwedianPreside | We should write an article about the different views (of various races?) on this problem. |
09:31.33 | MedwedianPreside | Imagine that you are duplicated. |
09:31.34 | Ghelae | Yes, you said that before. |
09:31.50 | MedwedianPreside | Your duplicate has the consciousness with the same properties than you |
09:31.56 | MedwedianPreside | but it is not shared between you two. |
09:32.17 | MedwedianPreside | Imagine you die. Your consciousness is destroyed and does not merge with your duplicate. |
09:32.43 | MedwedianPreside | Let's assume that you die and are duplicated somewhere else |
09:32.58 | MedwedianPreside | If the process is not INSTANTEOUS, e.g. takes up absolutely no time, |
09:33.11 | MedwedianPreside | but if there is even a milliardth of a second between the death and the resurrection |
09:33.22 | MedwedianPreside | the consciousness ceases to exist |
09:33.42 | Ghelae | You are correct that death post-duplication does not cause the consciosunesses to merge. That just means it's an irreversable split in consciousness, caused by the fact that information does not transfer from the original body to the second body post-duplication. |
09:33.54 | Ghelae | But when death is pre-duplication, the same argument does not follow. |
09:34.14 | MedwedianPreside | And destructive teleportation involves atomar disassembly, transport of the atoms (maximal speed is light speed, no infinite speed), and reassembly in another place. |
09:34.15 | Ghelae | And furthermore, your final comment, "the consciousness ceases to exist". I'll restate a previous comment of mine. |
09:34.19 | MedwedianPreside | It is the same thing |
09:34.22 | Ghelae | [10:17] <@Ghelae> Basically, you're assuming that, when a volume of space goes from holding a consciousness to not, the only options are a) the consciousness is destroyed, or b) the consciousness has flowed out of the volume. |
09:35.03 | Ghelae | You're making assumptions and failing to justify them. |
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09:35.18 | MedwedianPreside | as if I destroy the computer I am sitting infront and reassemble it in another place. |
09:35.51 | MedwedianPreside | The computer may be identical |
09:35.55 | MedwedianPreside | but never will be the same one |
09:36.12 | MedwedianPreside | because it went through a state where it could not work |
09:36.13 | MedwedianPreside | now |
09:36.15 | Ghelae | The fact that consciousnesses don't merge when death is post-duplication has a good physical reason behind it. The non-transferral of consciousness when death is pre-duplication is not; you're just presuming the situations are equivalent in that respect. |
09:36.19 | AdmiralPanda | and the wheel turneth over again |
09:36.23 | Ghelae | And now you're making even more contrived analogies. |
09:36.53 | Ghelae | Whether it's "the same computer" is certainly a matter of opinion. I would disagree that it's two different computers. |
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09:37.13 | MedwedianPreside | If we will use that on humans now, the human goes through a state in which consciousness cannot exist (disassembly into non-interconnected particles) and as such the consciousness is broken into a pre-teleport part which is destroyed and a copy of that, the post-teleport part. |
09:37.57 | MedwedianPreside | And there is only a beginning and an end for existences - an object can not exist 2 times. |
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09:38.06 | Ghelae | That axiom is unfounded. |
09:39.01 | Ghelae | You're practically doing circular reasoning: by stating that the property of being a specific object is not transferred after disassembly, you're proving that the property of being a specific person is not transferred after disassembly. |
09:39.15 | Ghelae | But you still aren't justifying the premise. |
09:39.31 | Ghelae | If you want to believe that, fine, but don't claim it's a logical necessity. |
09:40.40 | MedwedianPreside | It is a very interesting topic indeed. |
09:41.21 | MedwedianPreside | A good idea for a fiction is that a civilization discovers teleporation and that different philosophies arise which come into conflict with eachother, eventually ending in a war. |
09:41.27 | MedwedianPreside | Or in the ban of teleportation. |
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09:43.34 | MedwedianPreside | It would be an Asimov-esque, Lem-esque, Star-Trek-esque scenario of "a civilization subject to a strange ideological war". |
09:44.47 | MedwedianPreside | But we should make an article about the philosophies of destructive teleportation. |
09:45.00 | Ghelae | I might be able to do it this weekend. |
09:51.24 | MedwedianPreside | BTW, what would probably be the average distance between two stars in the sagittarius arm, "on the outskirts of the Milky Way"? |
09:52.26 | Ghelae | Probably a couple of parsecs. Not too much more than in our own region of space. |
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09:54.34 | ALaggyPanda | internet derped |
10:20.28 | Liquid_Ink | http://imgur.com/user/Kubera/favorites/O4VlC |
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11:42.29 | Jepardi | Hi |
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12:09.47 | Wormydroid | Hi |
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12:36.00 | ALaggyPanda | hi all |
12:36.07 | OluapPlayer | Hi |
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14:09.39 | ALaggyPanda | OluapPlayer: I've reached such a level of non-casul that despite not having played DkS1 for months, I can still take Nito first try while still wearing teh item farming ring :P |
14:10.16 | OluapPlayer | But Nito is the easiest Lord Soul boss tho |
14:10.30 | ALaggyPanda | Bed's easiest for me |
14:11.02 | ALaggyPanda | but anyway, point is not even proper defences and still dunk, while still being rusty |
14:11.08 | OluapPlayer | Take a divine weapon to get rid of the skellies and Nito is just a big dumb target |
14:11.28 | ALaggyPanda | Bed's an obstacle course, your point? |
14:11.41 | ALaggyPanda | and tbh all dark souls bosses are easy once you get the method down |
14:11.42 | OluapPlayer | Bed is badly designed and not fun |
14:12.19 | OluapPlayer | And that depends. Some bosses still kick my ass no matter how many times I play |
14:12.52 | OluapPlayer | Remembering I have to fight the Four Kings again usually makes me not want to replay Dark Souls 1 |
14:13.39 | ALaggyPanda | for Kings you just summon tier-2 waifu and stack magic resist really, then you just deal with their annoying mechanics |
14:14.27 | OluapPlayer | But Beatrice is poop for 4 Dongs |
14:15.26 | OluapPlayer | She does jack all and inflates their HP even more |
14:15.34 | ALaggyPanda | they're basically a burst fight, she contributes extra damage, it balances out (in my experience at least) |
14:15.59 | OluapPlayer | You had a lot of luck then |
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14:16.46 | OluapPlayer | I'd summon actual people, but I've never seen a summon sign in New Londo ever |
14:16.56 | ALaggyPanda | that or I'm gud, one or the other |
14:17.15 | Imperios | Hi |
14:17.23 | OluapPlayer | Hi |
14:17.38 | ALaggyPanda | the amount of times I've done Biggie Smalls though, that fight is just boring to me now |
14:19.36 | Imperios | http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/0/04/Divinarium_Emblem.png/revision/latest?cb=20160506141617 I made a picture |
14:19.38 | OluapPlayer | You plan on getting DS3 anytime soon? |
14:19.46 | OluapPlayer | keys |
14:19.48 | ALaggyPanda | yeah, I'll be getting it on PC this week |
14:19.58 | OluapPlayer | Oh you're getting on PC |
14:20.00 | Imperios | Not sure if I should use it as a symbol or keep the old one |
14:20.11 | OluapPlayer | I expected you to get it on console |
14:20.17 | Imperios | The old one was so laconic I am kind of used to it |
14:20.34 | ALaggyPanda | the only console I have is the 360 I'm currently playing on |
14:21.09 | OluapPlayer | We could play together then, and when Hachi gets the game, we turn into a three-man party |
14:21.21 | ALaggyPanda | COSPVP when? |
14:21.34 | OluapPlayer | pvp |
14:21.35 | OluapPlayer | naw dog |
14:21.43 | ALaggyPanda | screw you, we dress up and pvp |
14:21.45 | ALaggyPanda | it must be so |
14:21.52 | OluapPlayer | but i'm bad at pvp tho |
14:22.00 | ALaggyPanda | then I will make u gud |
14:22.16 | OluapPlayer | Guess you can farm covenant items off me then cause i'll never win any fight |
14:22.36 | ALaggyPanda | three of us camping? nah you won't be dying any time soon |
14:22.47 | ALaggyPanda | and if someone wants a fair fight I'll step up and knock em down |
14:23.04 | OluapPlayer | Oh so you mean ganking |
14:23.15 | ALaggyPanda | prettymuch |
14:23.28 | OluapPlayer | Ganks were the only way I won fights back at Belfry Luna |
14:23.30 | OluapPlayer | top scrub |
14:23.58 | ALaggyPanda | ganking is perfectly legit, if people want a fair fight they should go to fight clubs :P |
14:24.49 | OluapPlayer | I suppose |
14:25.06 | ALaggyPanda | but yeah the idea is we all dress up according to a theme |
14:25.14 | ALaggyPanda | and then we ruin peoples' days |
14:25.35 | OluapPlayer | I got a few full armor sets, and if we use passwords, we can summon each other regardless of soul level |
14:26.47 | ALaggyPanda | did htey keep soul memory or is matching just based on level and covenant? |
14:27.05 | OluapPlayer | Soul memory is gone |
14:27.08 | OluapPlayer | It works like DS1 |
14:27.18 | ALaggyPanda | thank FUCK |
14:27.23 | ALaggyPanda | fight clubs will once again rule |
14:27.25 | OluapPlayer | Actually no there's one catch |
14:27.37 | OluapPlayer | Equipment level counts for matchmaking too |
14:27.45 | ALaggyPanda | that's fine |
14:27.48 | OluapPlayer | So say, you can't invade a newbie with a +10 sword |
14:28.18 | ALaggyPanda | that won't impact fight clubs at all so good, htey did something smart for a change |
14:28.49 | OluapPlayer | Yeah this solves both the soul memory problem and the twink problem |
14:29.27 | ALaggyPanda | I wonder what the SL meta is for fight clubs nowadays |
14:30.05 | OluapPlayer | And the password system makes summoning friends super easy, it disregards soul level entirely and if they're too strong, the game automatically balances their damage so they don't just carry you through the level |
14:30.15 | ALaggyPanda | oh that's neat |
14:30.48 | OluapPlayer | I don't know the meta but I'd guess it's either 100 or 120 since that's how it was in DS1 |
14:31.43 | OluapPlayer | Another change is that armor cannot be upgraded anymore. So Fashion Souls is more or less encouraged |
14:33.00 | ALaggyPanda | assuming the diminishing returns cap is the same it'll probably be 125 |
14:33.19 | OluapPlayer | This game also has the best gesture in the series |
14:33.22 | OluapPlayer | The Patches Squat |
14:33.48 | ALaggyPanda | sorry, you spelt "Praise the Sun" wrong |
14:34.18 | OluapPlayer | That one is also in, but Patches Squat is better since you can stay in it indefinitely |
14:36.55 | Imperios | http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/0/04/Divinarium_Emblem.png/revision/latest?cb=20160506141617 Do you think that looks better? |
14:37.47 | OluapPlayer | I don't see any difference |
14:42.06 | Imperios | oh wait wrong picture |
14:42.14 | Imperios | Ãèìí Ñàóäîâñêîé Àðàâèè [ïðàâèòü | ïðàâèòü âèêè-òåêñò] |
14:42.16 | Imperios | wait wrong |
14:42.24 | Imperios | http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/1/11/Divinarium_Emblem_Alternate.png/revision/latest?cb=20160506143508 |
14:42.25 | Imperios | there |
14:43.00 | OluapPlayer | I personally prefer the first one because of the colours |
14:44.52 | Imperios | so more shiny |
14:44.55 | Imperios | And more green |
14:52.37 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid2 (~Anders@host-102-158-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
15:12.59 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-102-158-66-217.spbmts.ru) |
15:59.15 | *** join/#sporewiki Cryptdidical (6e95874f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.110.149.135.79) |
16:02.15 | Cryptdidical | First time on IRC, been on Spore for years and have always been tantalised by Cyrannian to mingle here. |
16:02.29 | Cryptdidical | Though I don't know what to do or where to go. |
16:02.37 | Cryptdidical | Hello anyway :) |
16:03.21 | Technobliterator | hi |
16:05.13 | Cryptdidical | Ah! Success! Hey there! |
16:05.57 | Cryptdidical | Hope I'm not intruding on anything here |
16:07.40 | OluapPlayer | Nothing has been said in an hour, so no |
16:10.24 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
16:10.34 | OluapPlayer | Hello |
16:10.41 | OluapPlayer | Technobliterator: Did you watch the new JonTron? |
16:10.52 | Technobliterator | Nope |
16:11.10 | OluapPlayer | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsWlKOwqlD4 |
16:11.23 | Monet | hello |
16:12.01 | Technobliterator | I'll have a look |
16:13.52 | Technobliterator | "yes, it does appear the back of that skateboard says "power"" |
16:13.53 | Technobliterator | pffft |
16:15.08 | Cryptdidical | Felt his newest was a little hit and miss, but still a good watch |
16:16.27 | Technobliterator | hahaha this is good |
16:16.30 | Technobliterator | I missed JonTron |
16:19.17 | Technobliterator | how is Jon so good at finding really cringey an awful films to slag off |
16:20.00 | OluapPlayer | I've no idea, I've never seen this film here |
16:20.05 | Cryptdidical | Probably gets a lot of suggestions from fans |
16:20.06 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet_2 (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
16:24.57 | Technobliterator | I really do not miss the "cool dood yo" skateboard culture |
16:33.23 | Technobliterator | that was awesome |
16:33.26 | Technobliterator | that film |
16:33.27 | Technobliterator | was so bad |
16:37.23 | OluapPlayer | Yeah |
16:54.11 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid2 (~Anders@95.140.92.148) |
17:09.24 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (5ec04d3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.192.77.59) |
17:10.29 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (02184654@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.24.70.84) |
17:10.36 | Wormy_ | Hi |
17:10.57 | Xho | meow |
17:10.58 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/59qT8qG |
17:11.13 | Wormy_ | https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/727877469584363520 |
17:13.14 | Wormy_ | This comment section http://imgur.com/gallery/5JS7nHf |
17:13.39 | Xho | "I specifically requested the opposite of this" |
17:16.14 | OluapPlayer | spu |
17:16.47 | Wormy_ | "No-one knows who named our planet Earth" |
17:16.54 | Wormy_ | Aliens |
17:18.06 | Xho | Wormy_: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/earth |
17:18.41 | Wormy_ | Yeah but who |
17:19.45 | Xho | dunno lol |
17:21.14 | Xho | Hm what to do |
17:22.25 | Imperios | Xho: Why do Americans even like rattlesnakes |
17:22.27 | OluapPlayer | finish X |
17:22.47 | Xho | Because |
17:22.51 | Xho | The snakes rattle |
17:23.41 | Imperios | Yes but the snake is traditionally meant to be the symbol of evil |
17:23.54 | Imperios | Why would Americans use the snake as a symbol of their nation |
17:24.27 | OluapPlayer | Ask an american |
17:24.30 | Xho | Seriously, because it rattles |
17:24.47 | Imperios | Does baguette count as an American |
17:25.22 | Xho | Somewhat tempted to buy ZBrush but I don't know if I could part with the money |
17:25.50 | Imperios | Well one way or another he probably knows |
17:25.52 | Imperios | Charles_Murray |
17:27.39 | *** join/#sporewiki DanzaDelMondo (~Imperios@95.140.92.148) |
17:28.05 | DanzaDelMondo | Xho: So like it rattles because someone threatens its freedom |
17:28.10 | DanzaDelMondo | So it is like a natural gun |
17:28.11 | Xho | FREEDOM |
17:28.20 | DanzaDelMondo | I guess that's the symbol |
17:28.24 | DanzaDelMondo | symbolism even |
17:28.26 | Xho | I dunno why you're asking me about something American |
17:28.30 | Xho | I'm British |
17:29.08 | DanzaDelMondo | Well you probably know more about American culture than us |
17:29.14 | DanzaDelMondo | Oh wait I found it |
17:29.20 | DanzaDelMondo | "I recollected that her eye excelled in brightness, that of any other animal, and that she has no eye-lidsShe may therefore be esteemed an emblem of vigilance.She never begins an attack, nor, when once engaged, ever surrenders: She is therefore an emblem of magnanimity and true courage.As if anxious to prevent all pretensions of quarreling with her, the weapons with which nature has furnished her, she conceals in the roof of her mouth, so that, |
17:29.20 | DanzaDelMondo | <PROTECTED> |
17:29.20 | DanzaDelMondo | he temper and conduct of America?" |
17:29.24 | DanzaDelMondo | snek |
17:29.31 | DanzaDelMondo | Also you linked the picture |
17:30.54 | Xho | That was Wormy |
17:33.36 | DanzaDelMondo | My mistake |
17:33.43 | DanzaDelMondo | Xho: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/0/04/Divinarium_Emblem.png/revision/latest?cb=20160506173322 Also take a look |
17:33.56 | Wormy_ | I find the symbol intriguing |
17:34.16 | Xho | >ouroboros |
17:34.18 | DanzaDelMondo | The rattlesnake? |
17:34.20 | Xho | SPODE IS XHODOCTO |
17:34.21 | Wormy_ | yes |
17:34.21 | Xho | SPODE IS XHODOCTO |
17:34.25 | DanzaDelMondo | Yeah |
17:34.41 | DanzaDelMondo | Xho: It is actually a fairly plausible theory |
17:34.43 | Wormy_ | I think I'm quite libertarian, though not right-lib |
17:34.56 | Xho | Krathazhrukhal - man wait until the isio'nar hear about this |
17:34.58 | Wormy_ | I'm just more individualist than most lefties |
17:35.18 | DanzaDelMondo | Also it is not just an ouroboros |
17:35.30 | DanzaDelMondo | It is a vine ouroboros |
17:35.44 | DanzaDelMondo | Treedocto or something |
17:36.39 | Xho | Santorakh - aye |
17:36.46 | Xho | Well I just bought ZBrush |
17:36.48 | Xho | My wallet cries |
17:38.35 | OluapPlayer | this kills the $ |
17:38.47 | Xho | It killed 800 of them |
17:39.07 | Xho | Well that's my last purchase for three months |
17:39.32 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/f72dmIN |
17:41.07 | Xho | Huh well I bought ZBrush exactly two months after I got the trial |
17:41.23 | Xho | gg xho |
17:43.19 | Xho | "Winchester Anime & Manga Society" |
17:43.22 | Xho | remove winchester |
17:43.36 | OluapPlayer | remove urself |
17:44.01 | OluapPlayer | well done |
17:44.21 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (5ec04d3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.192.77.59) |
17:45.45 | OluapPlayer | http://i.imgur.com/yfVtMvl.jpg "Listen here u little shit" |
17:46.08 | Xho | wow |
17:46.20 | Xho | "Winchester University Vegan Society" |
17:46.22 | Xho | REMOVE WINCHESTER |
17:46.23 | Xho | REMOVE IT |
17:51.39 | Wormy_ | Fin twiling made me laugh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG3awJsmAmw |
17:51.50 | Wormy_ | Finn |
18:44.13 | *** join/#sporewiki infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
18:44.13 | *** topic/#sporewiki is SporeWiki! http://spore.wikia.com || Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23sporewiki/ || Collaborative Universes: Sci-Fi http://tinyurl.com/3ddvp7q Fantasy http://tinyurl.com/p9qau7l || Roleplay subchannels: #sporewiki-rp1 and #sporewiki-rp2 || Titanpad: https://titanpad.com/ |
18:44.14 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
18:47.48 | Technobliterator | Xho, you going to Winchester University this year? :o |
18:47.55 | Xho | God no |
18:48.19 | Technobliterator | Also, all of my friends who went to Anime societies basically said most of the people there were awkward, and they were put off going back, so :p |
18:48.23 | Technobliterator | ah |
18:51.03 | *** join/#sporewiki Luey (ae3f4560@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.63.69.96) |
18:51.36 | Luey | Luey the Loopy: Hi! |
18:53.40 | OluapPlayer | Weird |
18:58.35 | Technobliterator | wat |
18:59.41 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet_2 (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net) |
19:00.09 | Monet_2 | Hello |
19:05.35 | Technobliterator | lolz |
19:05.41 | Technobliterator | the racists in this country are going to be so upset |
19:05.48 | Technobliterator | that the mayor of london is a muslim |
19:09.05 | DanzaDelMondo | Technobliterator: We had a Muslim in charge of the entire Russian police force |
19:09.11 | DanzaDelMondo | git on our level kaffir |
19:10.26 | DanzaDelMondo | I also think our Minister of Defense is Buddhist |
19:12.53 | DanzaDelMondo | Or at least was born Buddhist |
19:13.07 | DanzaDelMondo | Seriously though I think a Muslim in charge could do wonders |
19:13.25 | Technobliterator | Of London? |
19:13.33 | DanzaDelMondo | Yeah |
19:13.46 | Technobliterator | Well, it'll piss off a lot of Islamophobes |
19:13.56 | DanzaDelMondo | I mean he knows what are British Muslims like and he knows what could be done to alleviate the conflicts between them and British Christians |
19:14.07 | DanzaDelMondo | *British Muslims are like |
19:14.44 | Technobliterator | mhm |
19:15.39 | Monet_2 | I'm not sure if a muslim in power is new |
19:15.48 | DanzaDelMondo | He'll save us from Muslamic ray guns by raygunning them personally |
19:16.23 | DanzaDelMondo | Monet_2 Hachiman Wormy_: http://cs543105.vk.me/v543105346/15b97/DDAB3elgHiE.jpg |
19:16.25 | Technobliterator | In power, it's not new. In charge of a major Western city, it is |
19:16.45 | Monet_2 | What about city councils? |
19:16.51 | DanzaDelMondo | Well there's Obama |
19:17.02 | DanzaDelMondo | I mean his father was born Muslim even though he converted |
19:17.35 | Monet_2 | Yeah but Obama couldn't ahve ogtten into the White House if he were mMslim. |
19:17.57 | DanzaDelMondo | True that |
19:18.13 | Technobliterator | Of course, that doesn't stop people from speculating that he is Muslim |
19:20.53 | DanzaDelMondo | Well even though he is not actually Muslim, having Muslim parentage would make him more understanding of their actions |
19:21.09 | DanzaDelMondo | ...Except he still bombs the shit out of Middle Easterners |
19:24.21 | Technobliterator | DanzaDelMondo, when are you going to finish Reckoning section :o |
19:24.30 | DanzaDelMondo | I can right now actually |
19:24.33 | Technobliterator | sweet |
19:24.42 | Technobliterator | Can you have Zalk'don be defeated there? |
19:25.11 | DanzaDelMondo | Sure thing |
19:25.15 | Technobliterator | ^.^ |
19:25.19 | DanzaDelMondo | ~hit Monet_2 |
19:25.19 | infobot | ACTION punches Monet_2. |
19:25.23 | DanzaDelMondo | THERE IS WORK TO BE DONE |
19:25.58 | Technobliterator | Do you need the Titanpad link? |
19:26.21 | DanzaDelMondo | I don't |
19:26.23 | DanzaDelMondo | Monet probably does |
19:47.30 | Xho | So I was making a Septentrion bust in ZBrush |
19:47.36 | Xho | It now looks like a White Walker |
19:47.43 | Xho | They're essentially the same thing but still |
19:50.08 | DanzaDelMondo | JON SNOW LIVES |
19:50.16 | DanzaDelMondo | I have no idea who Jon Snow is |
19:50.20 | DanzaDelMondo | I just know he lives apparently |
19:51.36 | Monet_2 | Thanks for sploiling (j/k) |
19:54.37 | Hachiman | Good job Imp |
19:54.43 | Xho | http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/c/c3/SeptentrionBust.png/revision/latest?cb=20160506195249 See there we g |
19:54.44 | Xho | go |
19:54.47 | DanzaDelMondo | I have no idea if this is actually true |
19:54.53 | DanzaDelMondo | Is that true? |
19:55.08 | DanzaDelMondo | Wait do not tell me |
19:55.09 | DanzaDelMondo | I do not know |
19:56.11 | Monet_2 | Actually I saw a hint that if he's dead, he's dead. |
19:56.19 | Monet_2 | No reincarnation in Westeros |
19:56.35 | Monet_2 | ressurection, sorry |
19:56.38 | Xho | People have been raised from the dead before in the series |
19:56.39 | Monet_2 | Xho: Loving the patterns on his skin |
19:56.56 | Monet_2 | Xho: As zombies or full-on back ot life? |
19:57.01 | Xho | Full on |
19:57.08 | Xho | There's a character called Beric Dondarrion |
19:57.12 | Xho | He's been resurrected six times |
19:57.36 | Xho | Although he's only in one episode |
19:57.46 | Xho | In the books he's a husk of a human being by the sixth resurrection |
19:58.36 | DanzaDelMondo | and in the movie |
19:58.40 | DanzaDelMondo | in the series I mean |
19:58.49 | Xho | Well he only appears in one episode |
19:59.06 | Xho | He gets mutilated by The Hound but gets resurrected a minute afterwards |
19:59.17 | Xho | But they mention it was the sixth time he was resurrected |
19:59.47 | Xho | But yeah, Septentrions are giant White Walkers |
20:00.04 | Xho | Although much less on the agenda of destroying the world in an endless blizarrd |
20:00.06 | Xho | blizzard even |
20:04.26 | *** join/#sporewiki Lukosa (2ef6ed53@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.246.237.83) |
20:06.48 | Lukosa | um hello. I am new to the wiki and i would like to ask some things. I am still developing my creatures and their world but i am almost done so it wont be long. When you upload your creature on he wiki it is throught the game or by taking a photo of the creature? sorry if it sounds stupid but i am totally new |
20:07.02 | DanzaDelMondo | The latter |
20:07.11 | DanzaDelMondo | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Upload There |
20:07.16 | Monet_2 | Pictures, usually |
20:07.58 | Lukosa | Thank you :) and by the way. To join the universe i must first create my wiki page with the creatures etc right? |
20:08.42 | DanzaDelMondo | Yep |
20:08.52 | DanzaDelMondo | Try working with younger users first |
20:09.02 | DanzaDelMondo | There was another new guy here |
20:09.08 | DanzaDelMondo | I think his name was Treebeard or so |
20:10.18 | Lukosa | you mean to work together for creating a plot? |
20:13.08 | DanzaDelMondo | Well, it is not a must, but it is the most common way to write fiction |
20:13.13 | DanzaDelMondo | Unless you're Xho |
20:13.26 | Xho | eh whuh |
20:13.40 | DanzaDelMondo | You have a lot of individual fiction |
20:13.49 | Xho | Suppose so |
20:14.47 | Lukosa | i am writting my nation history wich the way i have it in my mind is pretty big. So when i will finish it i will start with that hahaha |
20:19.02 | ALaggyPanda | if I may make a recommendation, start with only the information needed for others to interact with them- that's the stuff that really matters on the page, the rest you can fill in as you go, and you can get working with others sooner |
20:20.08 | Lukosa | ok Thank you |
20:25.47 | Xho | Heck I've had this computer for about two years now |
20:30.14 | Xho | https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13131691_1199962773360931_3119747726036425379_o.jpg |
20:39.32 | *** join/#sporewiki ZF101 (4933de11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.51.222.17) |
20:40.14 | ZF101 | Hello all. |
20:47.36 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (2f37c603@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.55.198.3) |
20:47.54 | DrodoEmpire | Hi everyone |
20:50.27 | *** join/#sporewiki infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
20:50.27 | *** topic/#sporewiki is SporeWiki! http://spore.wikia.com || Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23sporewiki/ || Collaborative Universes: Sci-Fi http://tinyurl.com/3ddvp7q Fantasy http://tinyurl.com/p9qau7l || Roleplay subchannels: #sporewiki-rp1 and #sporewiki-rp2 || Titanpad: https://titanpad.com/ |
20:50.27 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
20:51.36 | *** join/#sporewiki Quark8 (49c685a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.198.133.167) |
20:51.37 | Quark8 | Hello. |
20:54.12 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
20:56.16 | DanzaDelMondo | Technobliterator: do stoof plz |
20:56.43 | Technobliterator | Not sure where you want Zalk to be confused |
20:57.12 | DanzaDelMondo | Where they charge their weaponry and the like |
20:57.20 | DanzaDelMondo | Zalk'don should be like "wtf they doing" |
21:02.06 | Technobliterator | Okay, there we go :o |
21:05.16 | DanzaDelMondo | Monet_2: http://cs604520.vk.me/v604520743/97a2/cupIcyNNL8I.jpg |
21:13.03 | Monet_2 | THat's.... |
21:13.06 | Monet_2 | Wow |
21:22.04 | DanzaDelMondo | Frostcutlass |
21:22.13 | DanzaDelMondo | Technobliterator |
21:46.09 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (2f37c603@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.55.198.3) |
21:48.55 | DanzaDelMondo | Technobliterator: Almost done but I think a little thing can be added |
21:49.58 | Technobliterator | Oh? |
21:50.46 | DanzaDelMondo | I dscribed in in the Titanpad chat |
21:53.22 | DanzaDelMondo | Monet_2: http://wowlol.ru/img4/694b863d189240fef28b8a910214c8bc.jpg I think I showed this before but still |
21:58.51 | DanzaDelMondo | Xho Hachiman Technobliterator: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Da_Reckoning#The_Battle_for_Q.27lnas Finally finished dis |
21:58.55 | DanzaDelMondo | Monet_2 too |
21:59.11 | Technobliterator | ^.^ |
21:59.43 | Xho | I'll read it tomorrow |
22:00.30 | DanzaDelMondo | This is that one time where Venoriel is actually humiliated |
22:01.19 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian (562d6746@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.45.103.70) |
22:01.19 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
22:01.34 | Cyrannian | Hello everyone |
22:02.54 | Monet_2 | Hello |
22:10.42 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:1:5b80:384c:196a:dbb3:18a0) |
22:10.42 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ |
22:10.44 | Technobliterator | hi crannies |
22:10.47 | Technobliterator | uh |
22:10.53 | The_Randomness | cmonBruh |
22:11.02 | Technobliterator | Why did my phone autocorrect that from Cyrannian |
22:11.05 | Technobliterator | ._. |
22:11.08 | Technobliterator | hi random |
22:11.23 | DanzaDelMondo | Cranny |
22:12.04 | The_Randomness | She called us cranberries :( |
22:12.12 | Cyrannian | That was hurtful |
22:12.21 | The_Randomness | I'm offended |
22:13.01 | Cyrannian | Just because I'm a cransvestite doesn't mean you should treat me any differently |
22:14.00 | DanzaDelMondo | But cranberries are tasty |
22:14.06 | DanzaDelMondo | You can make a mors out of them |
22:14.20 | DanzaDelMondo | Or a kissel |
22:14.36 | DanzaDelMondo | Or a kompot |
22:15.01 | DanzaDelMondo | Or even a kvass apparently |
22:34.39 | *** join/#sporewiki Lukosa (2ef6ed53@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.246.237.83) |
22:34.50 | DrodoEmpire | Hi! |
22:35.08 | Lukosa | Hello. How can i put a table o contents in my wiki page? |
22:35.55 | DrodoEmpire | How do you mean? |
22:36.22 | DrodoEmpire | You mean that collapsible box that details the different sections? |
22:36.29 | DrodoEmpire | I believe those generate automatically |
22:36.31 | Lukosa | yes that :P |
22:36.52 | Lukosa | uh.. really -.- should have known :P |
22:37.09 | DrodoEmpire | Yes, really. :p |
22:37.13 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway, its alright |
22:37.28 | DrodoEmpire | Unless you're a fan of *really* big sections it should be fine |
22:37.41 | DrodoEmpire | If a section does get unwieldy consider a subpage |
22:38.46 | Lukosa | well some sections will propably need the subsections |
22:49.07 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157) |
22:57.11 | Cyrannian | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Cyrannian_Cold_War#Crises_and_Escalation_.2808_NE_-_11_NE.29 - Updated |
23:29.37 | The_Randomness | DrodoEmpire: Three days until Stellaris, you hyped? |
23:29.49 | DrodoEmpire | Yep |
23:29.51 | DrodoEmpire | :D |
23:30.02 | The_Randomness | Got finals the next three days after that though :c |
23:30.10 | The_Randomness | But I should be able to play it a little |
23:32.50 | The_Randomness | Once finals are over, however, we'll need to start up a SW Stellaris game or something |