IRC log for #sporewiki on 20160405

00:00.14MonetThere was the Scramble for Mirus.
00:00.25HachimanAdmittedly I do not read Mirus stuff hur
00:00.42MonetIt kicked up quite a shitstorm when the Mirusians found it.
00:01.41MonetThe Waptoria temporarily transformed from optimistic hippie lizards into jingoistic xenophobes who wanted nothing less than non-Mirus powers out and gone from the former Dominatus territories.
00:02.19HachimanI refuse to believe that France is a perfect state; there must be at least some flaws and controversies tied to its name
00:02.39MonetAlexandre Valery.
00:02.43TybusenWell yeah France isn't necessarily supposed to be written as a perfect state
00:03.19Wormy_The XA in general were by no means perfect.  The war was really started between the DCP and Draconis playing colonial chess with the Kindred Coalition and Orion League, France in particular.
00:03.48MonetFrance did have a hand in dragging the DI into the war.
00:03.51TybusenI think the thing about GXS is that you can't exactly read it as a conflict between "good" and "evil" ideologies, it's more of a conflict of different economic and political models of the universe, each with advantages and disadvantages
00:03.53DrodoEmpireHachiman: Nobody ever said it was perfect? o.O
00:04.01DrodoEmpireTyb: Precisely
00:04.11DrodoEmpireIt was a radical rearrangement of the political order
00:04.14DrodoEmpireNothing more or less
00:04.43DrodoEmpireHachiman: If you seriously read into France it has *plenty* of flaws
00:05.04TybusenIt's a conflict more of an "orderly" society advocated by the DCP and Civilisation, and a "democratic" society advocated by the Xonexi Allies
00:05.09DrodoEmpire^
00:05.15DrodoEmpireIn French Andromeda, for example, an entire species is used practically as slave labour
00:05.18Wormy_The OL were anti-status quo but ultimately pawns in the greeater colonial game imo.  But for both the DCP and DI, their chess pieces got out of hand, France becoming revolutionary capitalists while the Civilisation turned on the DCP in the end
00:05.22HachimanI just get the impression that whenever I read about France, either it gets bad shit happen to it as a result of an external source's villainy or the shady stuff that goes on behind closed doors does not drag it down from continuing to rise and ascend
00:05.57DrodoEmpireThen you have a pretty unbalanced perception of France I'm afraid
00:06.02TybusenI'd offer Mirus as the major counterpoint to France's perceived "perfect" image
00:06.09DrodoEmpire^
00:06.21TybusenFrance and the XA as a whole really dropped the diplomatic ball there
00:06.23DrodoEmpireIts where French imperialism is most evident and brazen
00:06.25Wormy_To be fair isn't easier to see France as a perfect nation unless you dig deeper.
00:06.37Wormy_*it's easaier to see
00:06.51HachimanLike I said, I did not read about Mirus so I am happy to admit I may be wrong but then, honestly, I do not see Mirus as being a huge player on the Gigaquadrantic map
00:07.00MonetFrance and the Orion League agreed to the Human SUperstate because a number of politicians new that a prologned war against the DCP would seriously drain both the economy, public opinion of the state and public morale - three things the DCP didn't have to worry about
00:07.05TybusenThat's probably because France fits more to the political and economic models that we consider "ok" in the West
00:08.13TybusenI think the reason why France is easier to see as "perfect" is because its political and economic models are an extension of what we're used to in Western society
00:08.52DrodoEmpireIn a sense maybe
00:08.56Wormy_However there's one thing to remember about the DCP:  it was more of a lawful neutral nation until recent decades, where it became crazy
00:09.00MonetSo those models become invisible.
00:09.02TybusenThe DCP on the other hand is highly reminiscent of an Orwellian society that we do not view as desirable
00:09.11DrodoEmpireAlso because Charles doesn't write enough about society
00:09.13DrodoEmpire<.<
00:09.33TybusenCharles' specialty is more in politics and economics than social issues, I'd say
00:09.44DrodoEmpireRight
00:10.35DrodoEmpireTybusen: To be fair most Orwellian societies are objectively bad. The DCP make their police-state work through their huge amount of resources and careful leadership
00:10.55TybusenThat's true.
00:11.36TybusenThe difference between the DCP and the classic Orwellian state is that the DCP isn't necessarily in it for power's sake alone
00:11.51DrodoEmpireUnlike most police states they have the ability to allocate enough resources to keep the populace happy, *and* to monitor them, *and* to fund military ventures, *and* to silence dissent, and so on
00:12.01DrodoEmpireThat too
00:12.11DrodoEmpireThey aren't spectacularly corrupt
00:12.17DrodoEmpireWhich might be most important
00:12.27MonetYeah
00:12.41DrodoEmpireWhich comes back to the competence of their leadership really
00:12.54TybusenThat's why I wouldn't paint the DCP as "villains" in the GXS, they're heroes in their own right but they have a different way of going about their business
00:13.02MonetYou don't have officials stabbing each other in the back or giong rogue with entire armies or siphoning huge amounts of government funds for their own private use.
00:13.09DrodoEmpire^
00:13.51TybusenWhich happens to conflict with the model of the XA, who also fall more into the "heroic" spectrum
00:14.04MonetThe GXS might be more accurately escribed as a war between two anti-heroic factions.
00:14.14TybusenYeah
00:15.47MonetPerhaps another example of France not being pure heroic is Valery's pre-Emprie habit of selecting officials he knew he could control.
00:16.08DrodoEmpireI don't even know where the Drodo stand actually
00:16.39MonetMaxime was the heroic face of the French, while Valery was the sneaky puppetmaster that hept the whole enging running smoothly.
00:16.46DrodoEmpireAt this point the Empire is some monstrous patchwork of cultures and aristocrats
00:17.20DrodoEmpire*cultures and aristocrats who choose to pay lip-service to a parliament that tries to keep them in line like a bunch of schoolchildren. >.<
00:17.51DrodoEmpirePerhaps an exaggeration, but its decentralized and convoluted by its very nature
00:18.26MonetAristocrat - Noblesse Oblige? Don't try to confuse us with your fancy foreign words!
00:18.44DrodoEmpirehur
00:21.33TybusenTrying to come from a minimum-bias viewpoint, but I'd say the TIAF might be the most "white" of the XA since they don't participate in as much shady politics as France or the Draconis
00:21.57TybusenThat being said, there are still many war crimes committed by TIAF commanders that have gone unpunished by TIAF officials as well
00:22.48TybusenAdmiral Tzena should be serving at least 20 years in prison right now for the scorched-earth manuever she pulled on Vanexia during the Andromeda War
00:22.58MonetThere were a good number of Draocnid senators who were against war with the DCP
00:23.53MonetBut a lot of Draconid officers who commanded in the war saw nothing personal in the engagement.
00:24.10MonetTo them it was another expression of competition, pure and simple.
00:24.54Wormy_Likewise, there was a rift in the DCP between those who wanted to achieve maintaining the status quo in the Milky Way; and those who wanted to invade Andromeda.  It was those who were the maniac side of the DCP, and other the more treaditional "lawful" side.  However, the maniac side have more power really.
00:25.21TybusenI think most of the older TIAF commanders also didn't have much personal stake in the GXS, there was a lot of respect between older TIAF commanders and the DCP old guard
00:26.13TybusenI think that part of the TIAF flashpoint story was introducing the divide between the DCP's "order" and "conquest" factions
00:26.27Wormy_Indeed
00:26.46TybusenSince Kilnok was more part of the order-aligned old guard and was considered a friend by Lorrelas, at least
00:26.51Wormy_The conquest faction really had no order at all, believing the Civilisation would serve the DCP
00:27.14Wormy_They were wrong indeed, the Civilisation became out of control
00:28.02Wormy_While the DCP held itself back from frontline activity as the old guard "order" faction managed it;s best to stall that
00:29.02Wormy_Anyway, in the post-GXS world I am going back to my routes keeping the order faction in power, the DCP will become lawful neutral or even lawful good for now on.
00:29.34TybusenBasically back to classic DCP, right?
00:29.35Wormy_But still ready to kick the arse out of demons
00:29.41Wormy_Yep
00:29.56DrodoEmpireyuy
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00:42.41DrodoEmpiretest
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00:50.17DrodoEmpireHi
00:51.58Wormy_hi
01:34.39DrodoEmpiretest
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02:42.55Wormy_DrodoEmpire:  Just thought I'd share this with you https://twitter.com/DavidDeutschOxf/status/717020538036690944
02:43.01Wormy_+ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfNM5xqUkAAY9iM.jpg:large
02:43.33Wormy_Paints the Na'vi from Avatar as a static society that live in an undesirable fashion
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08:43.29Wormy_hi
08:44.17GhelaeHello.
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10:01.14Wormy_SporeWiki rmance in a nutshell http://40.media.tumblr.com/f3f0e5e58ee17c5369f3c74c26b45d04/tumblr_n5zsjayvmy1sndzdgo3_1280.jpg#
10:01.39Wormy_may have to del #
10:09.36Gaseous_InkSporewiki rmance's glorious potential https://45.media.tumblr.com/90005d4f28903d4a8d9c8a99244d06f4/tumblr_nrak99uOgg1tyiheio3_250.gif
10:10.13Wormy_ugh
10:10.36Gaseous_Inku no approve?
10:11.21Wormy_I won't discriminate those who's sexual preferences are consenting aliens.
10:11.33Wormy_But I am still grossed out.
10:16.54Wormy_Here's my favourite album cover http://36.media.tumblr.com/3f7369d8dffd94d63d3eb8a779626355/tumblr_n0u7e5monS1sndzdgo9_1280.jpg
10:17.17Wormy_Those creatures truly deserve the name gigantic
10:17.19Gaseous_InkThat planet can't have overly strong gravity
10:17.24Wormy_aye
10:19.22Wormy_Ghelae:  Could there be creatures that big in the universe?
10:20.32Wormy_Cultösaurus Erectus
10:21.30Wormy_Light gravity would likely have an effect on the landscapes too however
10:21.44Gaseous_InkFloatstone!
10:23.54Wormy_Anyway that pic has special significance in my early memories.  Things like that are probably why I like science fiction.
10:24.29GhelaeAs long as the gravity is incredibly weak, then yes, they could exist.
10:24.51GhelaeBut, how do they get enough food? And when the plenty's small enough to support them, how do they get enough oxygen?
10:24.58Ghelawayplanet's*
10:25.11Ghelawayplanet's gravity*
10:26.21Wormy_That's a good point
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10:32.51Wormy_Yeah I can't easily handwave out the atmosphere
10:33.24Wormy_Unless they are on a planet with normal gravity, but have negative mass generators in their bodies lol
10:34.34Gaseous_InkWhat if the planet is negative mass?
10:37.22Wormy_If it had more than positive mass, then I imagine it would fling apart
10:37.42Wormy_Like completely negative mass
10:38.09Gaseous_InkWhat if it has imaginary mass?
10:38.12Wormy_But with positive mass, you could balance out the inward gravitational acceleration I suppose, and the planet could be a lot bigger
10:39.00Wormy_Without tachyon condensation, it might be a planet than can only move at superluminal velocities
10:40.35Wormy_The tachyons would decay I think
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11:07.23JepardiHi
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12:29.10ImpyDroidGaseous_Ink: Wait since then are Venhokwe space Confucians
12:29.40Gaseous_InkSince last time I rewrote their history
12:29.50Gaseous_InkI thought you noticed their space Chinese-ity?
12:29.59Gaseous_InkAs in before now
12:30.23ImpyDroidI did
12:30.51Gaseous_InkOkay
12:30.58ImpyDroidI just realised I never talked to you about that hur
12:31.14Gaseous_InkI see
12:32.53Gaseous_InkI think I was learning about Chinese culture and history at the time
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13:07.38Wormy_Ooh I'm a fan of pre-communist Chinese culture and history
13:08.28Wormy_Don't know much about it, I just like martial arts films set in ancient china; and Chinese philosophy/religion
13:08.55Wormy_Though I've started to read up on it
13:10.59Gaseous_InkCool
13:11.31Tek0516Speaking of China: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-announces-sanctions-against-north-korea-a6969256.html
13:13.09Gaseous_InkAn interesting development
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13:48.11HachimanHi
13:50.17OluapPlayerhi
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14:03.58AdmiralPandahi all
14:04.24OluapPlayerhi
14:04.57HachimanhI
14:04.59HachimanWhoops
14:05.00HachimanHi
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14:31.16HachimanHi Imp
14:31.32ImperiosiH
15:13.06Wormy_Hachiman, Imperios:  I kind of feel bad but I like this sentiment for humanity in Avatar as opposed to the Na'vi, a static society held back by Eywa https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfNM5xqUkAAY9iM.jpg:large
15:13.18ImperiosAye
15:13.20ImperiosFUCK THE NA'VI
15:13.25ImperiosAVATAR WORST MOVIE
15:13.56Wormy_One of the comments was "Every static society or culture—no matter what it claims to be or looks like superficially—is sheer hell beneath the surface"  https://twitter.com/DavidDeutschOxf/status/717020538036690944
15:17.14Wormy_Humanity is far more intimate with nature than the Na'vi
15:17.34HachimanArguable
15:17.44Wormy_"He is not a figure in the landscape, but a fable of the landscape" Jacob Browonski
15:18.34Wormy_And yet humanity in Avatar and hopefully in rea\l life, is not bound to the Earth
15:19.03HachimanHumanity in Avatar is in space because they had forsaken their natural roots
15:20.03HachimanOne edge humanity has above the Na'vi is that they are the masters of nature rather than slaves to it, thus they can do more to preserve it
15:20.22Wormy_Indeed
15:21.22Wormy_Brownoski criticised many cultures that we appalud with our Western sensibilities, which he finds irrational.  Here he criticeses Easter Island society in the first few minutes http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x334243_the-ascent-of-man-the-starry-messenger_tech
15:21.37ImperiosOrientalism
15:22.10Wormy_Most of human history has been horribly static
15:22.36HachimanOnly in the last 2,000 years has human history began to speed up
15:22.50Wormy_Indeed
15:26.40HachimanThe Na'vi are at a disadvantage because they commune with the thoughts and ideas of past individuals who hold traditionalist ideals rather than thinking of innovations and progression; they are essentially slaves to Eywa and refuse to adapt or progress further beyond their current state of civilisation because their ancestors would disapprove
15:26.44Wormy_It's possible the Na'vi could become more dynamic.  But they will have to overthrow Eywa that sustains their way of life until some cataclysm
15:28.25HachimanIt could be interesting if one of the Avatar sequels shows a schism between Na'vi kingdoms as a result of one abandoning Eywa so that they may not be held back any further
15:29.29Wormy_I hope so, that would make it more analytical.  It feels as if the first film was trying to spread a message that they were "happy with their way of life so should stay that way", a static society meme
15:29.44Wormy_Sure, humans treated them horribly
15:30.00Wormy_But it doesn't have to be black and white
15:30.39HachimanThat perhaps they know they cannot depend on Eywa to save them should humanity or another spacefaring society threaten them and that they must take the matters into their own hands to defend themselves; learn how to use the leftover human technology
15:35.01ImperiosThey could show Earth actually
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15:44.00Wormy_Hachiman:  I like this channel sometimes, though it can get a bit wooey, the speaker has some good points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydXL_7Bjiqw
15:45.27Wormy_He's our modern Timothy Leary
16:22.45ImperiosExcellent
16:22.52ImperiosMy room's door broke and I am now literally trapped in my bedroom
16:22.57ImperiosSWEEET
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17:44.50LuxorHereAze
17:44.56LuxorHereWell, f*ck my keboard again.
17:44.58LuxorHereAye, I mean.
17:55.28ImperiosHi
18:06.49Wormy_Are you still stuck in your room?
18:07.07ImperiosI was just... freed, I suppose
18:07.11ImperiosBut now I do not have a door
18:07.12Imperios:<
18:07.37ImperiosWell I do have one but it cannot be closed
18:07.54ImperiosLuxorHere: Hm
18:07.58ImperiosRemember your idea about Space Poland?
18:25.55LuxorHereYes.
18:26.01LuxorHereIn development.
18:26.21LuxorHereI just noticed that I replied 18 minutes after you said that q.
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18:27.53LuxorHereAnd yes, I know that Polan cannot into space.
18:27.55LuxorHereHello
18:28.13LuxorHereIRC is very quiet today.
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19:10.28LuxorHereHello
19:11.30ImperiosLuxorHere: Just a thought; since we already have a direct continuation of a modern human nation state - that is, the French Empire
19:11.32ImperiosHow about
19:11.37ImperiosSpace Rzeczpospolite
19:11.40LuxorHerewell
19:11.42Imperios*Rzeczpospolita
19:11.43LuxorHerethis is France
19:11.47LuxorHereNot Glorious Polan
19:12.00ImperiosBut what about Glorious Polan with Lithuanian and Ukrainian slaves tho
19:12.11LuxorHereand i don't think that Poles would like to become frenchise hur
19:12.25LuxorHereWell, PCD is considered as a part of SVAF
19:12.36LuxorHere(Second Visehgrad Agreement Federation)
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19:13.02ImperiosI am not talking that Poland joins France
19:13.13ImperiosI am talking about FUCKING SECOND POLISH-LITHUANIAN COMMONWEALTH
19:13.14XhoStill on the Baguette Debate
19:13.17ImperiosHow epic would that be
19:13.18ImperiosHi Xho
19:13.19LuxorHereWith EFU, New Czech Republic, Ungarn etc.
19:13.26ImperiosThis is Pierogi Debate
19:13.40Xhokurwa
19:13.42OluapPlayerdum sponge
19:13.43LuxorHereand yes, Poland woul be interested in anschlussing baltic states, byelarus and ukraine, also kaliningrad
19:13.49LuxorHerewould*, damn
19:13.51LuxorHerestupid keyboard
19:13.57Xho~lick OluapPlayer
19:13.58infobotACTION licks OluapPlayer *SHLUUURRRRPPP*
19:14.04XhoI actually meant kick
19:14.04LuxorHereand yes, Kurwa.
19:14.11XhoBut lick suffices
19:19.36XhoWell that died
19:22.09LuxorHere*ouch*
19:53.49XhoReally dead IRC
19:53.53XhoRIP in pieces
19:54.14OluapPlayerrevive it
19:55.35Xho[Press X to revive]
19:55.36Xholol
19:55.37XhoNO
20:24.54ImperiosXho: http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/8/8c/Christelle_Khoury_Portrait.png/revision/latest?cb=20160405152739 Well here's something
20:24.59ImperiosSee I revived IRC
20:25.01ImperiosFor a second
20:25.08Xhowat dat
20:26.04ImperiosPAE Chief Diplomat
20:26.15Imperios*PAE's chief diplomat
20:26.40ImperiosShe's going to be my version of Kalcedia
20:26.59Xho>diplomat
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20:40.04ImpyDroidWhat did I miss?
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21:13.07Xhohttp://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/c/cf/NatelevariElf2016.png/revision/latest?cb=20160405211132 ulf
21:13.28OluapPlayergray orichalcim elf
21:14.22XhoOh shit I just realised it's my wiki anniversary today
21:14.26XhoSeven years
21:14.49OluapPlayerHappy 7 days of stuck here
21:14.51OluapPlayeryears even
21:15.21XhoGuantanamxho Bay
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21:16.02DrodoEmpireHi everyone
21:26.04Wormy_hi
21:39.28Wormy_I find it odd that rendering only reflections is slower than rendering with refractions too.  Surely rendering both is more demanding.
21:45.50Xhohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94gKTlBPNmk As a guitarist this made me die inside
21:48.00*** join/#sporewiki dino82_ (d8dd47aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.221.71.170)
21:48.17DrodoEmpireHi dino!
21:48.38dino82_hi all!
21:49.23Wormy_hey up
21:50.06Xho"Looks like he wasnt ready to move up to Medium difficulty"
21:50.30dino82_howz all doinf
21:51.06Xhohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g762REJWcg Almost as bad as this
21:53.28XhoJimmy Hendrix didn't die for that
21:53.54*** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157)
21:56.12dino82_hi
22:02.45The_Randomnesslol http://orig01.deviantart.net/cc3a/f/2011/212/8/8/the_only_fantasy_world_map____by_eotbeholder-d42b141.jpg
22:04.53HachimanWait is that
22:05.02Liquid_Ink"Innsmouth" hahaha
22:05.36HachimanActually what land is that supposed to be
22:06.51The_RandomnessIt's just a satirical map
22:15.07Wormy_That's our world in ancient times.
22:15.19Wormy_Hyperborea
22:16.17Wormy_https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/Chrysagon_Hyboria_1024.jpg
22:16.46Wormy_Hyborea
22:17.10Liquid_InkTsathoggua worshippers
22:27.34DrodoEmpireThose mountain ranges are greasy <.<
22:28.48Wormy_Programming and 3D in a nushell http://imgur.com/gallery/pTIPy
22:30.06The_Randomnesslol
22:31.15Wormy_http://imgur.com/a/Zsfkx
22:41.05*** join/#sporewiki Tybusen (8036b40f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.54.180.15)
22:54.18DrodoEmpireolol
23:07.29Wormy_http://imgur.com/gallery/tNnh8S8
23:08.49DrodoEmpireYikes
23:09.02DrodoEmpirehttp://i.imgur.com/MskHPYk.jpg
23:11.56Wormy_bad luck http://imgur.com/gallery/KLx0NAF
23:12.08Wormy_lol
23:30.55DrodoEmpiretest
23:40.59DrodoEmpiretest
23:41.42Wormy_Drodo:  Tremble under the might of Juche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wSARXgFej0
23:45.13DrodoEmpirePretty greasy propaganda
23:47.09DrodoEmpirehttp://i.imgur.com/nIl2Kf8.png
23:52.14DrodoEmpirehttp://i.imgur.com/RsOCY4s.gifv - My team of CS:GO
23:59.58The_RandomnessSeemsGood

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