| 00:07.56 | Wormy_ | amazing |
| 00:09.19 | Wormy_ | drom: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/File:Space_warp.png http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/File:Giant_glacier_planets.jpg |
| 00:10.19 | Wormy_ | planet with atmosphere frozen at poles |
| 00:10.28 | Wormy_ | how crazy is that |
| 00:12.20 | Technobliterator | please suggest ideas for {{ficpov}} designs |
| 00:12.25 | Technobliterator | there are already several to choose from |
| 00:16.55 | Wormy_ | I quite like the oldfic / ficPOV compared to fun template |
| 00:17.19 | Wormy_ | Charles_Murray: Is this for any fictions that had supercarrier like ships? http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Supercarrier#Pre-Franconica_.28supercarrier-like_starships.29 |
| 00:17.49 | Technobliterator | I'm not huge on the fun page template's design - and I am mostly at fault for it |
| 00:18.21 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ Yep! |
| 00:18.33 | Wormy_ | I have the Sentinel to add http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/4/49/HumanRepublicSentinal.png/revision/latest?cb=20140322231611 |
| 00:18.54 | Charles_Murray | Supercarrier-like is that they have similar components or secondary roles as the supercarrier. |
| 00:19.02 | Charles_Murray | Absolutely, you can. ^.^ |
| 00:19.09 | Wormy_ | A carrier, command vessel and hospital ship |
| 00:19.40 | Charles_Murray | Though it might be too small |
| 00:20.01 | Charles_Murray | Supercarriers are generally thought of as strategic assets meant to sustain whole fleets, upwards of 30 km in length |
| 00:20.26 | Wormy_ | Right, I could retcon its size. It was meant to be supercarrier size |
| 00:21.45 | Charles_Murray | Up to you! |
| 00:21.57 | Wormy_ | That crane and opening was meant to house warships for repair |
| 00:22.40 | Technobliterator | I don't get what Supercarrier is about |
| 00:23.04 | Charles_Murray | How so? |
| 00:23.24 | DrodoEmpire | The concept you mean? |
| 00:23.31 | Technobliterator | mhm |
| 00:23.37 | Charles_Murray | I can explain it? :D |
| 00:23.40 | DrodoEmpire | They're basically really really big logistical and command v- |
| 00:23.41 | DrodoEmpire | Sure |
| 00:23.43 | DrodoEmpire | XD |
| 00:23.48 | DrodoEmpire | Sorry about that |
| 00:23.54 | Charles_Murray | Np. xD |
| 00:24.26 | Wormy_ | Is 25km unacceptable? |
| 00:24.34 | drom | Wormy_ http://i.imgur.com/85YjcMm.jpg |
| 00:24.41 | Charles_Murray | Essentially, in order to invade the Milky Way, the DCP-Civ had to establish and defend a supply line that stretched all the way back to the Milky Way |
| 00:25.04 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy: I won't speak for Charles but it sounds a little small yeah |
| 00:25.11 | Charles_Murray | Invade Andromeda* |
| 00:25.22 | DrodoEmpire | Just looking to the page 30+ km is best |
| 00:25.25 | Wormy_ | I'll keep it 30 |
| 00:25.31 | DrodoEmpire | Alright cool |
| 00:25.31 | Charles_Murray | The idea of a supercarrier essentially derives from how hard it was to do that, what with logistical complexities and the potential of attack. |
| 00:26.24 | Charles_Murray | The main function of a supercarrier is to haul along all of those supplies, food, ammunition, fuel, spare parts, repair and refuel facilities, etc, along with you |
| 00:26.33 | Charles_Murray | So you don't have a lengthy supply line to defend. |
| 00:26.43 | DrodoEmpire | And in a heavily-protected/defendable way |
| 00:26.50 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 00:27.00 | Charles_Murray | And can more easily, more rapidly, and more easily deploy large amounts of forces to other galaxies. |
| 00:27.17 | Technobliterator | oh, fair enough |
| 00:27.20 | Charles_Murray | They're so big because the facilities demanded by navies are so massive |
| 00:27.21 | Technobliterator | makes sense |
| 00:27.41 | Charles_Murray | France has one in service, three more in production, and given the facilities available to it, it is capped at three. |
| 00:27.50 | Charles_Murray | (Three in production at the time) |
| 00:27.50 | Wormy_ | The Kicath and Jovar had some carrier vessels in the sense of this concept |
| 00:28.19 | DrodoEmpire | Takes highly specialized facilities to build supercarrier/supercarrier-like ships just considering the sheer size and sophistication |
| 00:28.27 | DrodoEmpire | A lot like any really huge ship |
| 00:29.08 | Charles_Murray | France is building supercarriers for other nations :D |
| 00:29.19 | Charles_Murray | One is already in production for Farengeto |
| 00:31.27 | *** join/#sporewiki OpelSpeedster (b3bb7692@gateway/web/freenode/ip.179.187.118.146) |
| 00:31.27 | drom | I might want to add that NS' "Architect" class is a bit special. |
| 00:31.37 | drom | It is what its class name implies |
| 00:31.49 | OpelSpeedster | drom: Context? |
| 00:32.05 | drom | It works as a mobile construction platform for building huge space or orbital stations |
| 00:32.06 | Charles_Murray | OpelSpeedster: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction%3ASupercarrier |
| 00:32.15 | OpelSpeedster | Thanks |
| 00:32.57 | *** join/#sporewiki KomputerKid (~KK@67.204.178.35) |
| 00:33.16 | OpelSpeedster | That Supercarrier looks pretty interesting |
| 00:35.06 | Charles_Murray | I'm glad you think so ^.^ |
| 00:35.08 | drom | It is also fitted to construct and deploy ship-of-the-line drone vessels on the fly from disassembled battlefield remains, scrap and premade parts. When it isn't profitable, it can then try to compensate the loss by turning itself into a temponary warp gate. |
| 00:37.22 | OpelSpeedster | Wow. But wouldn't it be a bit difficult/risky to catch the debris left by destroyed starcrafts? |
| 00:37.38 | Technobliterator | what happened to Jovar anyway? |
| 00:37.51 | drom | The issue is that it is slow and clumpsy to turn and transform |
| 00:38.24 | Charles_Murray | I think they became a part of the MWC? |
| 00:38.31 | Charles_Murray | That'd be a question for Wormy |
| 00:39.22 | Cyrannian | Jovar became inactive, though he occasionally comes back for short visits. |
| 00:40.12 | Wormy_ | I named the first commissioned Sentinel "Sapius Prime", in reference to the first human republic on the wiki |
| 00:41.05 | drom | OpelSpeedster: The carrier has collector drones that tow the debris back to them |
| 00:41.56 | OpelSpeedster | Ah, that's more reasonable. And intriguing, too. |
| 00:43.44 | OpelSpeedster | Wormy_: By the way, what happened to your proposal of rebooting the Civ Universe? |
| 00:43.50 | Wormy_ | The Jovar as a species live in the MWC, yes. |
| 00:44.20 | Wormy_ | They had a civil war, then the Grox destroyed their civilisation, so they migrated to the Cooperative |
| 00:44.26 | Cyrannian | As both supercarriers and intergalactic starships of similar sizes have been used by a large number of civilisations in the past, what exactly is considered new and revolutionary about Supercarriers? Or is it simply a specific classification that the French devised to describe such ships that are similar to their own? |
| 00:44.40 | Wormy_ | Opel: I don't think it was my proposal? |
| 00:44.41 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.90.171) |
| 00:45.39 | OpelSpeedster | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:203953#11 |
| 00:45.49 | OpelSpeedster | Ah right |
| 00:45.51 | OpelSpeedster | It was Xho's |
| 00:45.57 | Wormy_ | Xho has been making supercarrier-named ships for a long time. And then there are super star destroyers and dreadnoghts like the DCP Gargatuan. And there are also huge colony ships like the Draconis wormhole coach. So this is a blurry definition |
| 00:46.18 | OpelSpeedster | sorry, I looked at the notifications and you were the last poster, then I brainfarted and thought you were the original poster |
| 00:47.02 | OpelSpeedster | But anyway, has there been more discussion about that? |
| 00:47.19 | Charles_Murray | It's new as a concept not because of its size or its parts, but because of its intended purpose as a logistics craft purely designed as a strategic weapon, not a tactical one |
| 00:47.33 | *** join/#sporewiki AdmiralPanda (3a6b1c72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.107.28.114) |
| 00:47.53 | Wormy_ | From what I guage, these supercarriers are not necessarily for combat roles |
| 00:48.03 | Wormy_ | *direct combat |
| 00:48.20 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 00:48.27 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.68.130) |
| 00:48.31 | Charles_Murray | Whereas what tended to happen with large starships of the past is that they had a primary combat role, and secondarily had some aspects of supercarriers tacked on. |
| 00:49.35 | Charles_Murray | And what's revolutionary about them is their effect on warfare: it allows navies to operate easily without the use of supply lines for months at a time. |
| 00:49.54 | Charles_Murray | Though the supercarriers themselves need to be switched out and replenished eventually. |
| 00:50.40 | Charles_Murray | I hope that answers your question? |
| 00:50.42 | Cyrannian | I would imagine it depends on how particular empires conduct warfare. Many I would imagine have no need for supply lines at all, instantly translocating large fleets across galactic and intergalactic distances. |
| 00:50.46 | Wormy_ | :3 http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/1/1a/DraconisWormholeCoach2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120616160943 |
| 00:51.10 | Wormy_ | I made it, I will admit |
| 00:51.49 | Charles_Murray | Right, though hyperspatial civilizations still need to cross distances in order to get where they're going |
| 00:52.51 | Wormy_ | I think for hyperspatialcivs, which make use of wormhole/or-like grids, and hypermatter reactors that can fabricate matter out of nothing, carriers may be less common and more combat oriented |
| 00:52.59 | Cyrannian | I mean post-hyperspatial civilisations that use more advanced methods of transgalactic transportation. |
| 00:53.18 | Charles_Murray | Given the technology and energy involved in such translocations, such technology would be far out of reach of most civilizations |
| 00:53.52 | Wormy_ | Perhaps carriers represent the transitional state of Tier 2s as they become established hyperspatial ones? |
| 00:53.54 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.100.15) |
| 00:54.12 | TekDroid | ...I was apparently roaming |
| 00:54.18 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ Hm, I would disagree |
| 00:54.29 | TekDroid | ...dozens of km from the nearest border |
| 00:55.46 | Charles_Murray | Wormholes are stationary and can only get you so far. Plus, they're big and easy to shut down. If you're bringing war to another side of the galaxy, or to another galaxy entirely, you can be sure that your enemy's first action is to shut down or secure all available wormholes. |
| 00:56.33 | Charles_Murray | And there's no guarantee that you'll be able to find and maintain a wormhole near your enemy which goes back to the source of your supplies. |
| 00:56.35 | Wormy_ | Actually, some wormholes in the universe are transportable, the DCP gains energy of its own grid. And remember than quantum replicators use hypermatter. |
| 00:56.55 | Cyrannian | Though the use of artificial wormholes would negate that disadvantage, assuming that there are no pesky galactic barriers that prevent opening up a wormhole in one galaxy and instantly appear in another. |
| 00:57.00 | Charles_Murray | As for hypermatter reactors, there's the first law of thermodynamics? |
| 00:57.10 | Wormy_ | The Exodus project goes into detail how wormholes are seeded and moved |
| 00:57.42 | Wormy_ | Violations of thermodynamics are only apparent |
| 00:58.16 | Charles_Murray | Again, I would assume that setting up stable wormholes would take a lot of time, energy, and infrastructure to do properly. |
| 00:58.18 | Wormy_ | because hyperspace is where energy is being gained and dumped intp |
| 00:58.36 | Charles_Murray | Either that, or it's faaaaaar out of the reach of the civilisations of the Gigaquadrant |
| 00:58.44 | Charles_Murray | And overpowered, in my honest opinion |
| 00:59.07 | Charles_Murray | Doing so rapidly and with no effort, I mean* |
| 00:59.10 | drom | I'm not a fan of artifical wormholes |
| 00:59.17 | Wormy_ | Well the DCP for example, builds its network from potemtially thousands of dyson swarms around stars. This was before hypermatter was even brought into the sci-fiverse |
| 00:59.33 | drom | But I'm fine with hyperdrive-based wrap-travel |
| 00:59.46 | Cyrannian | It would all depend on how technologically advanced the civilisation is, of course. Though yes, this is one of the topics that is better not to think about due to the differences in how users conduct warfare. |
| 01:00.20 | Wormy_ | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Delpha_Coalition_of_Planets/Technology/Industry#Stellar_husbrandry:_The_Grid_.28galactic_solar_energy_distribution.29 |
| 01:00.46 | Wormy_ | I wouldn't call it OP anymore, as the DI, Cooperative and Borealis networks use similar technologies |
| 01:00.52 | TekDroid | I have no problem with artificial wormholes, but you should still need to set up both sides rather than instantaneous travel everywhere. |
| 01:01.04 | Wormy_ | It also took the DCP centuries to build |
| 01:01.25 | Charles_Murray | Yes, but DI wormhole travel is -very- expensive |
| 01:02.14 | Charles_Murray | To build, maintain, it's not the kind of process you can do at a moment's notice on a battlefield |
| 01:02.32 | Charles_Murray | It takes the involvement of a number of engineering firms in order to plan and build a wormhole |
| 01:03.36 | TekDroid | One issue IC is easy artificial wormholes like that mean that any defense lines are pointless and you can just jump straight to the enemy capital. |
| 01:03.45 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 01:04.01 | Charles_Murray | Which also ruins fiction opportunities for real strategy and tactics |
| 01:04.26 | Cyrannian | The Empire and Republic are capable of opening up artificial wormholes for instantaneous translocation. Though attempting to both enter and leave the galaxy using it is negated by the galactic barrier and there are powerful defences (space magic) that prevent it from being used to launch said sneak attacks into their territory. |
| 01:05.15 | Charles_Murray | So essentially they can use that on every single other Civ in every other galaxy, but nobody can do it to them? |
| 01:05.33 | OpelSpeedster | Charles_Murray: Not really, the Cyrandia barrier works both ways |
| 01:05.43 | Wormy_ | Wormholes are not the ultimate weapon, because as demonstrated in-universe, it is possible to siphon off their energy or dump a hyperspace missile into hyperspace |
| 01:06.02 | OpelSpeedster | i.e. A wormhole in Cyrannus can't lead you to anywhere outside of Cyrandia |
| 01:06.18 | OpelSpeedster | Artifical wormhole, I mean |
| 01:06.30 | Cyrannian | Which is why natural wormholes are so valuable |
| 01:06.49 | Charles_Murray | This is true, but the Empire and Republic can do it outside Cyrannus, like in Mirus, for example. |
| 01:07.46 | AdmiralPanda | this is why people had so many problems with void technology, but back when I came up with it fiction was rarely about more than a few dozen ships at a time and we basically handwaived how said ships actually got there |
| 01:08.26 | Charles_Murray | I'm just trying to point out that this interpretation of wormhole technology, when coupled with space magic, sets up a really strange mechanic. The Cyrannians can go to any galaxy and use wormhole technology to gain an irrevocable advantage, but it cannot be done to them in return. |
| 01:09.13 | Wormy_ | I dispute the "irrevocable advantage" however, as counter-technologies are demonstrated. |
| 01:09.42 | Cyrannian | Yes, I did not say that magical space defences were exclusive to my fiction hur |
| 01:10.01 | Wormy_ | You can have interdiction fields, use hyperspace to dump the energy of explosions, and even wormhole busters |
| 01:10.22 | Charles_Murray | Though those require a similar, if not superior level of advancement in order to be manufactured and deployed effectively |
| 01:11.08 | Wormy_ | True, but that technology is not that uncommon anymore. This is what I mean by carriers being a transitional role. But of cours, I didn't mean they are an inferior concept. |
| 01:12.07 | Charles_Murray | I personally love the use of fantastic sci-fi elements in fiction and warfare, they make for very interesting tools and mechanics to supplement well-planned strategy and tactical play |
| 01:13.08 | Charles_Murray | But if they break warfare and handwave reasonable restrictions, I am personally of the opinion (with all due respect) that that is not a good use of technology in fiction. |
| 01:14.49 | Charles_Murray | Wormy_ It's not uncommon among older fictions, though I've heard of very harsh criticism about France's current level of advancement, and it's not anywhere even close to being at this level |
| 01:16.09 | AdmiralPanda | there's quite a history of internet criticism in this community tbh |
| 01:16.27 | Cyrannian | As I said, it's one of those topics on the Fiction Universe that differs from user-to-user since everyone conducts war between their factions differently, there is nothing inherently superior about writing war one way or the other. |
| 01:16.33 | AdmiralPanda | and by that I mean criticism based on out-of-context or outright incomplete information |
| 01:17.10 | Wormy_ | I would argue for examplem that the gulf of Tier 2 and 1 is not huge |
| 01:17.23 | Charles_Murray | Cyrannian : I definitely agree with that, I apologize if I offended or aggravated any of you. |
| 01:19.01 | Cyrannian | I do like the Supercarrier page, though I would change the whole "the ultimate weapon of intergalactic power-projection" to "an ultimate weapon" for similar reasons |
| 01:19.31 | Liquid_Ink | Is it really an ultimate weapon? It seems to me like just a big ship. |
| 01:19.51 | TekDroid | Yeah, it's really not a weapon weapon. |
| 01:20.04 | Charles_Murray | Most of them aren't even equipped with weapons. xD |
| 01:20.13 | Liquid_Ink | Now that's just dumb. |
| 01:20.15 | AdmiralPanda | I think it's more the "ultimate" that's in question |
| 01:20.15 | TekDroid | More just a really large mobile base |
| 01:20.51 | TekDroid | Liquid_Ink: Well, anti-straighter weaponry and such |
| 01:21.07 | Charles_Murray | starfighter* |
| 01:21.16 | AdmiralPanda | either way I don't have much to weigh in to this, my style is too personal to really have an opinion on this sort of thing |
| 01:22.01 | AdmiralPanda | I liked it when things were mid-low tier 3 and everyone just wrote stories about characters being awesome :P |
| 01:22.35 | Cyrannian | The level of how each civilisation sees a supercarrier's "ultimate-ness" depends on how it conducts war, yes. Obviously not all civilisations need such ships to have a great Gigaquadrantic presence, like the Rambo |
| 01:23.12 | Charles_Murray | (The quote at the top is a boast by an executive looking to sell these things and should be taken as wholly subjective) |
| 01:23.15 | AdmiralPanda | imo if a weapon is in any way not the best option, it can't really be called the ultimate weapon |
| 01:23.28 | Wormy_ | I just like diversity in the universe, others like the DCP don't really use supercarriers for the same purpose. |
| 01:24.08 | AdmiralPanda | (I know AB, I'm more talking about what you could actually call an "ultimate weapon," and I don't really believe that such a thing could exist) |
| 01:24.33 | Wormy_ | http://www.xenology.info/Xeno/18.8.htm |
| 01:24.52 | OpelSpeedster | In my opinion, the Supercarrier is a highly situational weapon, it can be either what will save your hide, or a complete waste of money/time/resources |
| 01:24.58 | Wormy_ | One may disagree with the conclusion but it does propose what an ultimate weapon needs |
| 01:25.28 | TekDroid | Sales pitches aren't really supposed to be 100% accurate, just make something sound as cool as possible |
| 01:25.35 | Charles_Murray | May I express the problem I'm encountering in a much more comprehensive way than I have been so far? I've been making disjointed points, and I'd really like to explain what I'm seeing. |
| 01:25.44 | OpelSpeedster | For example, if you're fighting in a colony, or taking over a planet far from one of your bases, and it is heavily protected, which means you need a large attack fleet, and the ability to make starcrafts on the fly, then you're gonna need one |
| 01:26.21 | OpelSpeedster | But if you're fighting in orbit of one of your worlds, then you can definitely do without it |
| 01:26.46 | OpelSpeedster | Assuming, of course, said world is heavily colonized and has a large/powerful enough fleet at standby |
| 01:27.01 | Charles_Murray | OpelSpeedster : Of course; As it states, it's an ultimate weapon of -power projection-. |
| 01:27.28 | Charles_Murray | Power projection is when you assert military and political power away from your own territory |
| 01:27.41 | OpelSpeedster | Yeah; just describing it with more details |
| 01:27.57 | Cyrannian | Though that would depend on how civilisations project their power. And not all would do so in the traditional way. |
| 01:28.15 | Wormy_ | The page can't really claim that though; - building your wormholes boring into someone-elses territory is something that exists in the fic universe, though admittedly not available to all. |
| 01:29.07 | Wormy_ | That in fact proved very costly to the DCP until they countered with a wormhole buster |
| 01:29.28 | Wormy_ | Arguably wormhole busters make carriers an option again |
| 01:30.03 | Charles_Murray | I'm all for diversity and differences in the waging of warââand there's a lot of it in the fiction universe. The problem begins when some of that diversity is clearly better than others, and invalidates the tactics a fiction wants to use |
| 01:30.10 | Wormy_ | Carriers may be useful in places where hyperspatial tech is disrupted, like by rifts and and fog |
| 01:30.56 | Wormy_ | I wouldn't worry about it too much in-universe. What matters is how we plan fiction, in GXS we managed I hopem to make the DCP as non-belittling as possibe. |
| 01:31.53 | Wormy_ | We have kept such weapons largely out of the conflict, and made the DCP's motives different to that of AD |
| 01:32.12 | Charles_Murray | Keep in mind that a lot of fictions assert themselves as "hyperpowers," which means that we're necessarily comparing fictions to one another |
| 01:32.29 | Charles_Murray | And thus making some tactics, strategies, and technologies more viable than others |
| 01:32.49 | Charles_Murray | And notice that those nations which are hyperpowers are those with the technologies we've been describing |
| 01:33.25 | AdmiralPanda | that would be something called a fact of life; if two sides meet, and one has X, one has Y, and Y is better than X, the faction with Y will win |
| 01:33.37 | Charles_Murray | Which essentially means that if I want France to become hyperpower, I'd also have to adopt those technologies, tactics, and methods of writing warfare |
| 01:33.40 | Wormy_ | I'd rather worry too much about how much the universe runs, it will always have flaws. We have to take an outside perspective, and explain in-universe why certain things are the way they are: and so I'm confident we can make supercarriers and wormhole-level technologies compatible. |
| 01:33.48 | Wormy_ | *I'd rather NOT |
| 01:33.55 | Charles_Murray | Which, stylistically, I really don't want to do |
| 01:34.51 | Charles_Murray | (That last statement was a continuation of my older statements) |
| 01:34.57 | Charles_Murray | (Not a response to Wormy's) |
| 01:35.01 | Charles_Murray | (Sorry about the confusion) |
| 01:35.26 | Charles_Murray | True, but it's bellitling to think that the DCP has been holding back this whole time |
| 01:35.44 | AdmiralPanda | ultimately I'd say it's come down to the wikiverse transitioning from Fairy Tail to Dragon Ball Z, in that we've reached the point that to really interact you have to meet a certain level of power, and at that level of power all that matters is power |
| 01:35.49 | Charles_Murray | (And belittling on the DCP that France's limited technology could put a dent in it) |
| 01:35.55 | Wormy_ | I can't really help with that |
| 01:36.18 | Cyrannian | That diversity has and will always exist on the wiki though, it's ultimately a user's choice what path they take. Which is kinda why describing a particular kind of ship developed by a single faction as the ultimate weapon of power projection to the entire Gigaquadrant is an issue here, as it suggests that civilisations that do not have them are at a similar |
| 01:36.18 | Cyrannian | disadvantage similar to what you described for tactics and technologies. |
| 01:37.04 | AdmiralPanda | in Fairy Tail every new character has a unique set of abilities, and the scale of power is such that these unique powers are useful, whereas in Dragon Ball Z every new character is notably more powerful, but they are at the point that that power can only be expressed as more power |
| 01:37.46 | AdmiralPanda | fireballs vs puppet magic as opposed to energy beam vs more powerful energy beam, long story short |
| 01:38.22 | AdmiralPanda | the wikiverse has largely reached the point that a lot of the established fictions are on such a scale of power, that if you want to have any meaningful conflict between them you ahve to buy in to that level of power |
| 01:38.24 | Wormy_ | I'm more than happy to help with the practical side of patching up problems: I can see where carriers would be useful for the DCP now, with counter weapons and even natural rifts. Maybe the hyperspace aliens disrupt hyperspace technologies in Uncharted Expanse, warranting traditional supply lines and carriers as the more useful form even for established hyperspatial empires |
| 01:39.12 | Wormy_ | But in the context of the DCP-Dominatus story, we had to get as hyperspatial as possible |
| 01:39.15 | AdmiralPanda | the Fordanta being the way I want them to be could compete quite well with the other factions around at the time, nowadays they're irrelevant on all levels except the tactical |
| 01:40.11 | Wormy_ | The Fordanta still sound formidable to me |
| 01:40.55 | AdmiralPanda | on an individual level they are, but this is a universe where the go-to method of fighting someone is firing a missile through hyperspace |
| 01:41.07 | AdmiralPanda | and most factions don't care about the individual level anyway |
| 01:41.44 | Wormy_ | That is painfully like real life though |
| 01:42.33 | Cyrannian | I personally much a mix between empire-level and individual-level |
| 01:43.01 | AdmiralPanda | and that's what I want them to be; on the individual level, you go up against a Fordanta who has specialised in whatever you're going up against them in, they will kick your arse, but their reliance on the individual limits the scale of power they can achieve |
| 01:43.23 | Wormy_ | One or two A10 Thunderbolts makes short work of an army of tanks |
| 01:44.19 | Cyrannian | If only Random was here, he could discuss his hatred for ground battles. |
| 01:45.17 | Wormy_ | I still think it might be applicable in some areas |
| 01:45.28 | Charles_Murray | In my fiction, it definitely is |
| 01:45.34 | Charles_Murray | Ground battles happen all the time |
| 01:45.56 | Cyrannian | I do like ground battles too, though I prefer writing traditional space battles |
| 01:46.05 | TekDroid | If you intend to occupy something rather than obliterate it, they are a necessity |
| 01:46.07 | Charles_Murray | And the individual had a lot of power to change the course of battles, both as commanders and soldiers; |
| 01:46.11 | AdmiralPanda | and therein lies the issue :P different people want to write different kinds of stories, but the meta of the wikiverse is such that it favours particular kinds, and it's quite hard to stray from that without creating entirely new fictions at lower levels of power |
| 01:47.38 | Wormy_ | Me and GD did manage to dream up what Tier 1 ground battles would be like - battles of utility fog creating obscene geometries |
| 01:48.36 | Wormy_ | with traditional fighting caught up within |
| 01:49.07 | Charles_Murray | My personal ideal would be for fictions to adhere to very similar physical laws and mechanics, but be able to explore completely different styles within that framework. So long-range battles involving missiles in hyperspace, or close battles in realspace, or ground battles involving anything from tanks to utility fog to individual warriors with swords |
| 01:49.23 | Charles_Murray | And I've been able to devise systems wherein all of these can coexist |
| 01:50.07 | Charles_Murray | It just involves setting up lots of interesting systems, like putting shields on mechanized horses |
| 01:50.22 | Charles_Murray | This is science fiction/fantasy, there's no reason all of this can't happen at once |
| 01:51.29 | Charles_Murray | Though that means nerfing certain technologies (like putting time or infrastructure requirements) so they don't break the meta and become too powerful that they're objectively better than the above systems |
| 01:51.43 | Charles_Murray | That's my ideal, and mine alone. |
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| 01:53.15 | Wormy_ | It's a beautiful dream, but the will always be an inherant hierachy of objectively better methods and tech |
| 01:53.43 | Charles_Murray | Though we can work as users to minimize that and be mindful of other's styles |
| 01:54.19 | Wormy_ | I actually have a very similar position, but in my view, the meta is not an in-universe rule, but matter of applying context. I can see how carriers don't have to conflict with being a Tier 1 hyperpower |
| 01:54.38 | Charles_Murray | Just as I've agreed to revise the "is the ultimate weapon of power projection," this sort of argument behooves us to be careful of other fictions and styles. |
| 01:55.10 | Wormy_ | We can explain that in-universe, and in fact the DCP may indeed need carriers where they cannot use wormholes |
| 01:55.22 | Charles_Murray | I'd love that |
| 01:55.40 | Charles_Murray | And we can definitely work together in making carriers more advanced and workable within the framework of your fiction, and that of others |
| 01:56.00 | Charles_Murray | But hopefully still retaining the aspects that draw myself and others to that concept. |
| 01:56.07 | Wormy_ | Exactly |
| 01:56.23 | AdmiralPanda | since we're talking ideals, mine is that we making such concessions is unnecessary; that the scale of power is such that you can get away with having wild and arguably impractical elements without hamstringing yourself |
| 01:56.50 | AdmiralPanda | but of course that is quite frankly impossible given the scale of power the wikiverse currently operates at |
| 01:57.11 | Cyrannian | I don't think anyone would disagree with the use of different styles anyway, if we all followed the same style the wiki would be incredibly dull |
| 01:57.31 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 01:58.49 | AdmiralPanda | people certainly don't disagree with the use of different styles, my point was that as it stands we often have to make concessions to balance things out so those styles can work |
| 02:00.29 | Charles_Murray | I personally love making unpracticable elements work |
| 02:00.36 | Charles_Murray | It takes a tiny bit of tweaking |
| 02:00.52 | Charles_Murray | But it works. Think of DrodoEmpire's use of cavalry, for example. |
| 02:01.10 | Charles_Murray | Or to some users, my use of tanks. |
| 02:01.23 | AdmiralPanda | again, my point is that the scale of power should be such that those elements don't need balancing to work |
| 02:01.36 | Charles_Murray | What would that look like? |
| 02:01.45 | AdmiralPanda | fairy tail as opposed to dragon ball Z |
| 02:02.06 | Charles_Murray | So you mean, so wildly different we can't even compare them and therefore we should assume they're equal? |
| 02:03.01 | AdmiralPanda | not necessarily, what I mean is lower the net power level. There's this thing called the Goku Effect, which is basically the idea that once you reach a certain level of power, the only way you can express that power is with more power |
| 02:03.47 | AdmiralPanda | up until you reach that point, you can express that power with variation- for example, Drodo literal mechanised cavalry or the ridiculous individual power of the Fordanta, without a power comparison being necessary |
| 02:03.51 | Wormy_ | In the War of Ages, there was sword and sorcery |
| 02:04.09 | Charles_Murray | I would support that |
| 02:04.19 | Wormy_ | When Onuris was lead into Inferno, they fought with essence and swords |
| 02:04.23 | AdmiralPanda | the problem is, we've already passed that point, and did so long ago |
| 02:04.33 | AdmiralPanda | that's what I've been saying this entire time |
| 02:05.23 | Wormy_ | I'm going now, bye |
| 02:05.27 | Charles_Murray | Yeah, I also wish the overall power of the fiction universe could be downsized sometime. Imagine a fiction universe in which a single battleship is significant, or where it doesn't take a ship being 55 km long for it to be unique. |
| 02:05.29 | Charles_Murray | Night! |
| 02:05.37 | Charles_Murray | Thanks for the help, wormy |
| 02:05.51 | Wormy_ | no problem |
| 02:06.26 | Cyrannian | I somewhat agree with that, even though I have some really massive ships myself, all my major ones are below ten kilometres |
| 02:07.38 | Charles_Murray | Really massive ships tend to set the standard for power and prestige, though, it seems |
| 02:09.02 | AdmiralPanda | "Nothing like a giant heap of metal to wave your dick over everyone in sight" - Rose of Sharon Cassidy |
| 02:09.12 | Cyrannian | It depends really, the vast majority of Dino's ship are below a kilometre even |
| 02:10.00 | Charles_Murray | Perhaps, though even Dino has told me that he no longer considers the Rambo a hyperpower |
| 02:10.17 | AdmiralPanda | Most Fordan ships rarely get over five kilometres, the only reason the ISF have massive ships is because they stole the technology from the Dominatus and the fact that they basically live on them rather than settling planets |
| 02:10.19 | OpelSpeedster | I pretty much only have one type of ship above one kilometer, and even then it is a rare sight |
| 02:10.32 | OpelSpeedster | the rest are all fighters |
| 02:10.44 | Charles_Murray | They have trouble maintaining the rule of law within their own galaxy, and are a protectorate of a much larger power which possesses those ships. |
| 02:11.04 | AdmiralPanda | having played Space Engineers so much has really rammed home how ridiculously huge the ships in the wikiverse are |
| 02:13.10 | Charles_Murray | I personally think that the Fordan are very viable, and I'd like to see more of them. |
| 02:13.30 | Cyrannian | People probably place too much importance on what is a hyperpower and what isn't, at the end of the day if we place too much credence in the term we are back in the days when people actually competed their empires against one another OOC to see which is the most powerful |
| 02:13.49 | AdmiralPanda | again, viable on an individual level, and the reason you don't see much of them is whenever I try to join fiction the fiction either dies in a fire or people forget I was trying to join in the first place |
| 02:14.14 | AdmiralPanda | I'm not joking by the way, the latter has happened three times now |
| 02:14.21 | Charles_Murray | Though for non-hyperpowers, it's a very, very noticeable thing :( |
| 02:14.50 | Charles_Murray | Power is a very big issue in the fictionverse, and those who don't have it feel it much more than those who do |
| 02:15.44 | TekDroid | waves |
| 02:15.53 | Charles_Murray | ^ |
| 02:15.57 | AdmiralPanda | there never really feels like much they could take part in at any given time anyway |
| 02:16.10 | Cyrannian | I've never been in support of no new galaxies and limits on Tier 1s (I don't use the tier system anyway), but that's understandable if a particular fiction wants power and can't seem to get it without being overpowered |
| 02:16.27 | AdmiralPanda | besides, the ISF interests me more anyway |
| 02:16.44 | AdmiralPanda | and it occurs to me that they seriously need a name change |
| 02:16.49 | Charles_Murray | AdmiralPanda : I'd love to discuss working you into some of my fictions if you'd be up for that |
| 02:17.12 | AdmiralPanda | I'm always open to discussion, don't expect me to be too optimistic though |
| 02:17.24 | Charles_Murray | Cyrannian : We agree on both those points, then. :o |
| 02:17.41 | AdmiralPanda | the carp spreads |
| 02:17.55 | AdmiralPanda | I hope you're happy Technobliterator |
| 02:17.58 | AdmiralPanda | you've infected AB |
| 02:18.04 | Charles_Murray | Wut? |
| 02:18.09 | Charles_Murray | D: |
| 02:18.29 | AdmiralPanda | oh nothing, it's just I can't see the :o face without thinking of a carp |
| 02:18.29 | Charles_Murray | (I don't use the tier system either, and I would like to see new galaxies in an orderly fashion) |
| 02:18.43 | AdmiralPanda | so I made a joke that Technobliterator is secretly a carp because she uses it so much |
| 02:18.53 | Charles_Murray | lol, I think I've noticed that too |
| 02:18.58 | Charles_Murray | I'll bug her on your behalf when I see it |
| 02:19.15 | AdmiralPanda | http://www.alternativesjournal.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/slide_detail/magazine/asian%20carp%2025766077%20%C2%A9%20Czanner%20-%20Fotolia.com_.jpg |
| 02:19.19 | Charles_Murray | ^.^ |
| 02:20.54 | Cyrannian | I don't think people should be limited on what sort of fiction they make, and the sort of limitations that do exist cause those with galaxies from a time when everyone had one, like moi, to be seen to be on a perch above others and understandably so |
| 02:21.34 | AdmiralPanda | honestly hte main reason I created a galaxy was simply because everyone else had one |
| 02:22.26 | AdmiralPanda | it didn't actually effect anything, I just had one |
| 02:23.04 | Charles_Murray | I've definitely, absolutely felt that. The amount of in-universe power and creative ability conferred on users with galaxies is absolutely unbelievable, as opposed to people who don't have their own galaxy-spanning civilizations and need to weigh their decisions with everyone else. |
| 02:24.51 | Charles_Murray | We live in an awkward middle ground where we don't have the problem of single-user galaxies anymore and everyone is collaborating furiously on the galaxies that do exist, but there are a select few users that are still in the possession of galaxies. Practically speaking, the solution to this could be to get rid of user-owned galaxies (which would infringe upon your own creative power, Cyrannian, which is why I hesitate to su |
| 02:25.30 | Charles_Murray | (which would infringe upon your own creative power, Cyrannian, which is why I hesitate to support it), or to reopen galaxy creation in some form that is sane and enjoyable. |
| 02:25.44 | Charles_Murray | Or maybe I haven't thought of a third solution |
| 02:26.46 | Charles_Murray | I've definitely had users express to me that they feel like they are being restricted in fiction by the no-galaxy rule and are considering leaving the fiction universe as a result. |
| 02:32.18 | OpelSpeedster | Yeah... the Phradox Galaxy is unusually quiet. |
| 02:32.27 | OpelSpeedster | Not too sure about the Bunsen Galaxy, I don't really follow it |
| 02:33.21 | OpelSpeedster | But I think the no-galaxy rule is fine, the galaxies still are pretty diverse. |
| 02:37.01 | Cyrannian | Well obviously getting rid of user-owned galaxies isn't going to happen, though as I said I never supported closing galaxy creation back during the cleanslate, though I'm neutral about it at this point. A part of me thinks that a cramped Gigaquadrant in which people vie for power both IC and OOC is pretty damaging to the wiki, but another part of me thinks |
| 02:37.02 | Cyrannian | that may not change if more galaxies are created |
| 02:38.13 | AdmiralPanda | the whole situation reminds me of a poorly planned D&D campaign; people came in with different expectations about what the wikiverse would be like, and now the game has been going for too long to buff out the dents |
| 02:40.57 | Charles_Murray | It might make the situation much better, though. |
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| 02:42.19 | Cyrannian | I'd say it's more important to try and tone down the whole complex of intergalactic powers based on power and importance, at least in an objective sense. Which is why people were so against reviving the G8 |
| 02:44.04 | Charles_Murray | Though (unless I'm missing something) I see no concrete way to do that aside from giving fictions the breathing room, freedom, and the means to be as powerful as each other. Just giving people the -option- would remove the fixation off of power due to the fact that we are not structurally limited by the rules of the wiki. |
| 02:45.41 | Charles_Murray | For example, it would be logically impossible for France to ever come close to interacting with the Galactic Empire of Cyrannus as an equal because there's no way I'm ever going to be able to gather the industrial and military power of a single galaxy under the blue, white, and red (let alone the several galaxies the CyraEmp has expanded into). |
| 02:48.12 | AdmiralPanda | you think you have it rough, try one truly "owned" planet, a few thousand fortresses and a few dozens of thousands of technical vassals that don't really matter much :P |
| 02:50.17 | Charles_Murray | And I'd like to participate in fiction with the CyraEmp in a way that matters and has an impact on the story, rather than as a nobody. I think it's a good fiction, and it'd be fun to interact with ti. |
| 02:50.19 | Charles_Murray | it* |
| 02:51.07 | Cyrannian | The fixation with power was worse when the Gigaquadrant had dozens of galaxies, however. After all, the rule was enacted for a reason. It's a matter of self-perception perhaps. Wormy does not have a galaxy to himself and the DCP is not at a disadvantage. |
| 02:51.32 | AdmiralPanda | ultimately I find it quite hard to fit in because all that really interests me is the individual level, characterisation rather than the scale of an entire faction |
| 02:52.06 | Charles_Murray | Though the DCP very clearly dominates the Milky Way, which is a holdover from an era where fictions could be that powerful |
| 02:52.25 | AdmiralPanda | my original plan when I created the Fordanta was that the furthest I'd take the scale out was Hel' and his army or Ja'Dan and his fleet, with the race behind them just being a backdrop |
| 02:52.49 | AdmiralPanda | that and I take a very Homerian approach to battles, that being all that matters is the actions of the heroes and those actions decide the outcome of the battle |
| 02:54.01 | AdmiralPanda | which is part of the reason I think that people initially thought I had some sort of self-absorbtion in not wanting to allow the Fordanta to lose, it was just that up until then the Fordanta had a hero on the battlefield and the other side didn't, so in the style I'm used to naturally hte Fordanta would win |
| 02:55.14 | Charles_Murray | (You guys were also much younger back when the Gigaquadrant had dozens of galaxies) |
| 02:55.18 | Cyrannian | The Milky Way is a free galaxy, and while the DCP may be the most powerful faction within it, that does not mean that it dominates all within it as the CyraEmp does. As the very nature of a free galaxy would imply both in-fiction and in-fact. I'm sure Wormy would agree with me here. |
| 02:56.05 | Charles_Murray | Though that also means that categorically, structurally, nobody in the Milky Way galaxy can be as powerful as the DCP. |
| 02:56.11 | Charles_Murray | Which is very limiting |
| 02:58.44 | Charles_Murray | Because inadvertently, that means that the Milky Way works by the DCP's rules, and interacting with the DCP is not as an equal partner or collaborator. It's very clear that the DCP looks down on most Milky Way states. |
| 02:59.22 | Charles_Murray | Being looked down on by these powers, in my opinion, is a big driver of the anxiety you describe |
| 03:01.17 | Cyrannian | There's no rule that the DCP must be the most powerful in the Milky Way. It's a free galaxy. A user can make a superpower in the Milky Way and not interact with the DCP once. |
| 03:01.54 | Charles_Murray | It's much harder than you imagine D: |
| 03:02.03 | Charles_Murray | Much, much harder |
| 03:02.54 | Charles_Murray | Again, I've been told that France as it currently is is far too powerful |
| 03:03.11 | Cyrannian | It really isn't. You are not forced to collaborate with a fiction you don't agree with. |
| 03:04.13 | Charles_Murray | That works both ways, and therein lies the problem |
| 03:04.38 | Charles_Murray | When the people I want to collaborate with think that my fiction is too powerful, I have to downsize it. |
| 03:04.48 | Charles_Murray | Otherwise I can't do fiction. |
| 03:05.15 | Cyrannian | But don't you think the DCP is too powerful? |
| 03:08.53 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (adfc264b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.252.38.75) |
| 03:08.59 | DrodoEmpire | Back. >.< |
| 03:09.16 | Charles_Murray | Right, but now we're back at how powerful fictions aren't created equal due to the pre-cleanslate world. Due to how fiction recognition works, if I ignore the existence of the DCP (which I don't want to do, I still think it's a good fiction), I'm blocking out a -significant- part of the fiction universes' dynamics, organizations, and cause-to-effect relationships, not to mention all of the stories the DCP takes a part in. |
| 03:09.50 | Charles_Murray | Not only that, but I'm also aggravating every user who thinks the DCP has a well-earned place in the fiction universe (of which there are many, myself included). |
| 03:10.03 | DrodoEmpire | What's happening? |
| 03:10.32 | Cyrannian | But there are post-cleanslate fictions like the NS which are apparently on a similar level to the DCP, just because the DCP is from a pre-cleanslate time period doesn't mean that it is granted special rights to be powerful |
| 03:11.00 | Charles_Murray | Right, but not very many people recognize the NS as similar in power to the DCP |
| 03:11.16 | Charles_Murray | Specifically because they don't own a galaxy, or at the very least the core of a galaxy. |
| 03:12.06 | Cyrannian | Nightie night |
| 03:12.11 | OpelSpeedster | Night |
| 03:12.30 | Charles_Murray | Night? o.O |
| 03:12.35 | Cyrannian | Reading the history section for the Hivemind now by the way |
| 03:12.36 | Cyrannian | bai |
| 03:12.42 | OpelSpeedster | ^.^ |
| 03:12.53 | Charles_Murray | Uh. |
| 03:12.55 | Charles_Murray | Well. |
| 03:12.57 | OpelSpeedster | DrodoEmpire: A discussion regarding fictions which are too powerful |
| 03:13.02 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 03:13.02 | Charles_Murray | That was abrupt. |
| 03:13.07 | DrodoEmpire | He had to go. XD |
| 03:13.16 | OpelSpeedster | Perhaps Charles_Murray can explain it better |
| 03:13.21 | DrodoEmpire | But yeah perhaps |
| 03:13.23 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway |
| 03:13.24 | Cyrannian|Away | 4:13 in the morning I'm afraid |
| 03:13.30 | DrodoEmpire | Ahh |
| 03:13.34 | DrodoEmpire | Makes sense |
| 03:13.40 | Cyrannian|Away | Putting it off too long #insomnia |
| 03:14.20 | Cyrannian|Away | Perhaps we can continue tomorrow |
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| 10:18.52 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 10:21.01 | Ghelae | Hello. |
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| 12:02.56 | Hachiman | Hi |
| 12:03.23 | OluapPlayer | ~cuddle Hachiman |
| 12:03.23 | infobot | ACTION grabs Hachiman and cuddles until Hachiman begs for mercy |
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| 18:14.16 | *** topic/#sporewiki is SporeWiki! http://spore.wikia.com || Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23sporewiki/ || Collaborative Universes: Sci-Fi http://tinyurl.com/3ddvp7q Fantasy http://tinyurl.com/p9qau7l || Roleplay subchannels: #sporewiki-rp1 and #sporewiki-rp2 || Titanpad: https://titanpad.com/ || |
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| 18:14.27 | Hachiman | need a name 4 isiris relijun |
| 18:14.32 | Hachiman | Also I'll read this |
| 18:15.06 | OluapPlayer | F5 it |
| 18:16.06 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Bot (uid94017@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-faxfgdbbcmstmuxn) |
| 18:25.43 | Hachiman | Very nice work on Asemath's page, although it mentions he has "future siblings" in his History while you clarified that Vixaatus does not have any other children |
| 18:25.59 | Hachiman | Imperios: What are your impressions on Vermintide? |
| 18:26.09 | Imperios | Have not seen yet |
| 18:28.11 | dino82_ | very Nkce Oluap! It looks great and has a nice background! |
| 18:30.02 | OluapPlayer | Fixed |
| 18:31.22 | drom__ | So I found out that I've Homeworld Remastered, I had no idea or memory of how I got it. Turns out that I bought it this summer and then forgot that |
| 18:32.17 | *** join/#sporewiki KomputerKid (~KK@67.204.178.35) |
| 18:32.55 | Hachiman | Imperios: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p266t86iQd4 |
| 18:32.59 | drom__ | At least it is one of the plenty games I don't have yet installed and the plenty I can always turn to incase of boredom. |
| 18:33.19 | Hachiman | Multiplayer TES + Warhammer: Fantasy Battles: End Times + Skaven |
| 18:40.21 | Wormy_ | O_o not used to seeing Oluap without a @ |
| 18:40.38 | Wormy_ | I've not a ta or coffee today, and I'm starting to feel it |
| 18:40.49 | Wormy_ | tea |
| 18:41.41 | OluapPlayer | I had not noticed I was not logged in |
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| 18:51.13 | drom_ | Cyrannian: "Star Wars Battlefront Beta in a nutshell" http://i.imgur.com/wJeHhFb.jpg |
| 18:52.45 | TekDroid | Drom_:"That unbalanced? O.o |
| 18:57.50 | drom_ | A friend on steam claims that, yeah |
| 18:57.58 | Cyrannian|Away | Ooooh it'll be so satisfying |
| 19:00.01 | AdmiralPanda | from what I've heard, it's practically impossible to win as the rebels in most scenarios in the beta |
| 19:01.07 | drom_ | EA be all like "JOIN THE DARK SIDE, WE GOT ALL THE LULZ YOU CAN DREAM OF!" |
| 19:02.01 | *** join/#sporewiki Sovnarkom (18fd10af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.253.16.175) |
| 19:02.08 | Sovnarkom | Hello. |
| 19:02.35 | Hachiman | Claiming that all Imperials are affiliated with the Dark Side is like claiming Erwin Rommel was a Nazi |
| 19:03.12 | Hachiman | brb |
| 19:03.17 | drom_ | Hey |
| 19:04.41 | Sovnarkom | I'm releasing my inner hippie with some Beatles. |
| 19:04.42 | Sovnarkom | Lol |
| 19:06.07 | Sovnarkom | I was thinking of making some really stupid. |
| 19:06.10 | Hachiman | Eh, I find Beatles are overrated |
| 19:06.20 | Sovnarkom | Agreed. |
| 19:06.36 | Sovnarkom | I mean, I like the Beatles, but I don't like them to the point where they are the equivalent to gods. |
| 19:06.50 | Sovnarkom | Hell, I like the Stray Cats more. |
| 19:07.19 | drom_ | I like foxes |
| 19:07.38 | Sovnarkom | :| |
| 19:07.53 | Sovnarkom | I like... cats? |
| 19:08.00 | Sovnarkom | I don't really have a favorite animal. |
| 19:08.20 | Sovnarkom | We need to create a USSSR. |
| 19:08.30 | Sovnarkom | The Union of Soviet Socialist Space Republics! |
| 19:08.38 | Hachiman | There kinda already is one |
| 19:08.44 | Sovnarkom | Really? |
| 19:08.44 | Hachiman | Albeit Imp has not worked on it for quite some time |
| 19:09.03 | Hachiman | Euraspact or something like that |
| 19:09.39 | Sovnarkom | Is that a reference to the Warsaw Pact? |
| 19:10.27 | Hachiman | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Euraspact |
| 19:10.40 | Sovnarkom | Ooh. |
| 19:10.43 | Sovnarkom | This is interesting. |
| 19:11.39 | Sovnarkom | So this group formed after the Third World War? |
| 19:11.46 | Hachiman | Yeah |
| 19:11.46 | Hachiman | https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12119015_1049848261693431_6654742394639080509_n.jpg?oh=1f65a3a5bad3dd3956f965976d305611&oe=5684A49C |
| 19:12.13 | Sovnarkom | Lol. |
| 19:13.56 | Sovnarkom | Soviet space propaganda could be weird at times. |
| 19:13.57 | Sovnarkom | http://russiatrek.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/soviet-space-program-propaganda-poster-29.jpg |
| 19:15.24 | Hachiman | It needed to be considering Soviet space travel could not hold up on its own |
| 19:15.47 | Sovnarkom | Yea. |
| 19:16.03 | Hachiman | The Soviets were definitely the underdogs in the space race |
| 19:16.20 | Sovnarkom | I agree. |
| 19:16.55 | Sovnarkom | The US had former Nazi scientists working in their space program, whilst the USSR, well, none really. |
| 19:17.06 | Sovnarkom | So the technological advancements went mostly to the US. |
| 19:17.07 | Sovnarkom | :( |
| 19:17.35 | Sovnarkom | But in terms of the propaganda war, the Soviets won. |
| 19:21.17 | TekDroid | Isn't Euraspact not communist here though? Kinda refreshing to see a non-Soviet future Russia though |
| 19:21.56 | Sovnarkom | Yea. |
| 19:22.10 | Hachiman | Well, current Russia isn't Soviet either |
| 19:22.15 | Hachiman | Putin is a capitalist after all |
| 19:22.56 | Sovnarkom | Oh thank the gods. |
| 19:23.08 | Sovnarkom | Some morons claimed that Putin was making a new Soviet Union. |
| 19:23.15 | Sovnarkom | And I facepalmed so hard that my hand went through my face. |
| 19:23.20 | TekDroid | A return of the Soviets future Russia just feels overused |
| 19:23.31 | Sovnarkom | Well, Metro 2033 is different. |
| 19:23.34 | Sovnarkom | Cause they are Soviets... |
| 19:23.36 | Sovnarkom | Underground. |
| 19:23.42 | Sovnarkom | But yea, I agree. |
| 19:23.44 | Sovnarkom | It is quite overused. |
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| 19:25.31 | Sovnarkom | Hi. |
| 19:25.39 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 19:26.56 | *** join/#sporewiki Sovnarkom_ (18fd10af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.253.16.175) |
| 19:27.15 | TekDroid | I don't mind its usage, particularly if done well in a way that makes sense. It just gets overused. |
| 19:27.26 | Sovnarkom_ | That's weird, I guess it kicked me out of chat or something. |
| 19:30.15 | Sovnarkom_ | Wait, what? |
| 19:30.20 | Sovnarkom_ | I didn't even. |
| 19:30.21 | Sovnarkom_ | What? |
| 19:30.39 | AdmiralPanda | in metro 2033 you have Nazi russians as well, and i-don't-give-a-fuck-screw-nosalises russians, so the fact that there are some soviet russians isn't really that telling |
| 19:31.16 | Sovnarkom_ | Yea, and about them future Soviets... |
| 19:31.17 | Sovnarkom_ | http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/7629/1549_0001.jpg |
| 19:32.26 | Hachiman | So Vermintide looks like an interesting game to play |
| 19:32.40 | Hachiman | L4D + Warhammer: Fantasy Battle |
| 19:33.08 | Sovnarkom_ | Lol, but at least they show the Skaven instead of Orcs and Goblins or Chaos. |
| 19:33.17 | Hachiman | Thank fuck |
| 19:33.49 | Hachiman | As much as I like Greenskins and Chaos, they are greatly overused |
| 19:33.57 | Hachiman | Skaven are great |
| 19:34.40 | Sovnarkom_ | Yea, who wouldn't want to fight a bunch of plague-riddened, absolutely violent, hunched rat people?! |
| 19:35.10 | Sovnarkom_ | And the way the game is setup, it does look like L4D. |
| 19:35.31 | Hachiman | It's probably got L4D as a base for its gameplay but it expands outwards from that in a fair few ways |
| 19:35.43 | Hachiman | Like being able to modify your classes and such |
| 19:35.50 | Hachiman | And a loot system |
| 19:36.10 | Sovnarkom_ | That's cool. |
| 19:38.39 | Sovnarkom_ | What in the absolute hell is this? |
| 19:38.39 | Sovnarkom_ | https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2015-06-26_11-26-51-640x396.jpg |
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| 20:22.02 | The_Randomness | Hello |
| 20:23.10 | Cyrannian | Hi |
| 20:23.16 | AdmiralPanda | hi |
| 20:23.23 | Ghel | Hello. |
| 20:34.02 | The_Randomness | rip hachi |
| 20:37.48 | Wormy_away | http://imgur.com/gallery/a2Yvs |
| 20:40.11 | Wormy_away | http://imgur.com/gallery/Dv4SNMU |
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| 20:51.22 | Wormy_away | Hachi, OluapPlayer http://imgur.com/gallery/CkHjSOP |
| 20:52.41 | Hachiman | What the fuck is a sand dollar |
| 20:56.51 | Wormy_away | Would have thought you had known |
| 20:57.20 | Wormy_away | like sea cucumbers, but more like a pancake |
| 20:58.23 | drom__ | Wormy_away: http://i.imgur.com/sVtHinj.gif |
| 20:58.42 | Wormy_away | magnificient |
| 20:59.38 | drom__ | Perhaps I should give EVE:O another try |
| 21:04.32 | Wormy_away | ma who researches bedbugs can only keep them alive by letting them feed on his arm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9z_LtDx5-4 |
| 22:05.14 | drom__ | Wormy_away: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQDBiH2CEq0 |
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| 23:03.11 | drom__ | Charles_Murray: I almost forgot about what happened in the night-morning last day. |
| 23:03.24 | drom__ | You nudged me about something, what was that about? |
| 23:03.47 | Charles_Murray | Cyrannian and I were discussing how the no galaxies rule is dum |
| 23:05.59 | drom__ | I'm neither a fan of the rule, but it is there for a fairly reasonable reason |
| 23:06.19 | drom__ | Which speaking off, I hate it and that |
| 23:08.56 | drom__ | nite nite, I've to grab my train late the afternoon next day, but we gotta do some shit in the concrete jungle first, that lasting for very long time so I gotta get up early so I can get it all done in good time. |
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| 23:59.53 | Wormy_ | hi |
