| 00:00.21 | Monet | Yeah. |
| 00:00.24 | Technobliterator | all we need to do is have robots take over |
| 00:00.36 | Monet | THen what use is there for us? |
| 00:00.48 | Technobliterator | We go extinct? |
| 00:00.50 | Wormy_ | I'm of the view imperfections aren't a bad thing |
| 00:00.59 | Technobliterator | we can leave a legacy behind |
| 00:01.26 | Monet | Wormy_: Imperfection can lead to improvement |
| 00:01.31 | Wormy_ | Precisely |
| 00:01.54 | Technobliterator | Yup, improvement by replacing shitty humans with computers |
| 00:01.56 | Technobliterator | 8D |
| 00:02.02 | Wormy_ | And the thing is the allure of certainty has lead to lots of bad philosophy |
| 00:02.10 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray_ (a689f258@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.137.242.88) |
| 00:02.15 | Technobliterator | or at the very least cyborgs |
| 00:03.04 | Technobliterator | I think Phone_Murray sounds better, but that's just me :p |
| 00:03.14 | Hachiman | Or we could just become enlightened as humanity ages |
| 00:03.18 | Hachiman | Unlikely but still |
| 00:03.36 | Wormy_ | I think the AI extinction won't happen if ever |
| 00:03.41 | Technobliterator | I just think we're too stubborn and primitive |
| 00:03.41 | Monet | Hachiman: I'd say ew're on our way |
| 00:03.47 | Wormy_ | *wn't happen for a long time |
| 00:04.05 | Technobliterator | Too self interested, too savage, too useless... |
| 00:04.12 | Technobliterator | what *are* we good at? |
| 00:04.18 | Monet | Adapting? |
| 00:04.22 | Monet | Inventing? |
| 00:04.25 | Wormy_ | That is cynical |
| 00:04.27 | Monet | Creating? |
| 00:04.28 | Phone_Murray | What counts as enlightened is debatable, though. |
| 00:04.33 | Technobliterator | I hope if there are aliens out there, they're better than us |
| 00:04.47 | Hachiman | Well consider the fact that the generation that controls the world at the moment - minus North Korea - are from a previous age |
| 00:04.48 | Monet | Wait where did al lthis pessamism come from? |
| 00:04.55 | Technobliterator | Adapting? Barely, we adapt very slowly due to stubbornness. |
| 00:05.05 | Technobliterator | Inventing? Eh, I guess. |
| 00:05.06 | Wormy_ | But they would have gotten better than us via progress which the truns from the same principles our would. |
| 00:05.08 | Hachiman | In say several decades new age politicians and world leaders will come into place |
| 00:05.40 | Technobliterator | Our politicians won't do fuck all, too interested in their own political campaigns and all the cash they earn |
| 00:05.43 | Hachiman | From our generation who will work against the philosophies and ideaologies of the people that dictate the world as of now |
| 00:06.00 | Wormy_ | Humans are quite extra-ordinary in terms of what they do that nothing else we know does. |
| 00:06.08 | Technobliterator | yeah, sorry, but that requires world peace first, a thing which we can never achieve |
| 00:06.29 | Technobliterator | wow, this talk is making me want to write fiction |
| 00:06.31 | Wormy_ | Such as acquiring knowledge and even rebelling against one's own genes |
| 00:06.43 | Monet | Technobliterator: One word: GLobalisation |
| 00:06.43 | *** join/#sporewiki Quark8 (18383a3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.56.58.59) |
| 00:06.46 | Technobliterator | wtf, I've never had this feeling in years |
| 00:06.48 | Quark8 | Hello. |
| 00:06.58 | Phone_Murray | Technobliterator : Oooooh my, it's much more complicated than that. xD *political science major* |
| 00:07.02 | Hachiman | There will always be war, poverty, and other negative aspects of humanity as much as there will be the positive ones |
| 00:07.27 | Wormy_ | There will never be utopia |
| 00:07.29 | Monet | True we live in an extremely divided world...where the conveniences of the moder nage come form every corner of thep lanet. |
| 00:07.44 | Hachiman | Aye but then dystopia is just as unlikely as utopia |
| 00:07.49 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:07.59 | Technobliterator | Phone_Murray, can you elaborate? I will admit I come from a cynical point of view, but I mostly stand by it |
| 00:08.00 | DrodoEmpire | I dunno. The world's just the world to me. :p |
| 00:08.07 | DrodoEmpire | That's how I see it. |
| 00:08.26 | Monet | 100 years ago getting something from China was considered exotic and a mark of social status. Nowadays "made in China" - tacky plastic shit. |
| 00:08.27 | Wormy_ | Both are fundamentally flawed ideas ripped apart by rational philosophers anyway |
| 00:08.29 | Technobliterator | I have no hope for our species other than for it to leave a legacy of the good stuff behind when it inevitably destroys itself |
| 00:08.48 | Hachiman | A legacy for what hur |
| 00:08.50 | DrodoEmpire | Its not good, nor is it bad; What can we compare it to to determine if its either? Its just reality to me. |
| 00:08.55 | Wormy_ | Why inevitably? |
| 00:09.02 | Wormy_ | That is prophesy |
| 00:09.11 | Wormy_ | You can't rationally assert that. |
| 00:10.08 | Wormy_ | Plus it is an appeal to the past and modern problems, and the future will have new problems and new solutions |
| 00:10.14 | Technobliterator | Wormy_, even if we somehow survive thousands of years, will we really survive massive climate changes and changes that will make the planet inhospitable? And even then, will we really survive the outcomes where the Sun blows us up? |
| 00:10.17 | Wormy_ | Ones we can't predict |
| 00:10.36 | Monet | Well consider that even the worst wars of today are firecrackers compared to the First and Second World War. |
| 00:11.03 | DrodoEmpire | Tech: We've survived mass extinction events, world wars, and imminent nuclear holocaust. I have faith in the human race's ability to survive. |
| 00:11.46 | Technobliterator | Would we survive a nuclear war, though? |
| 00:11.49 | Wormy_ | Because I think the important issue is not to try and predict what will happen, but study the theory of fauilure. To a rational optimist, "all evils are caused by insufficient knowledge". We can't know what problems are in advance but we can solve problems |
| 00:11.57 | DrodoEmpire | We'd be set back hundreds of years |
| 00:11.59 | DrodoEmpire | But yes we would. |
| 00:12.22 | Monet | The K-T extinction event was pretty nasty but we survived |
| 00:12.23 | Wormy_ | You also can't predict what future solutions we will find |
| 00:12.31 | Phone_Murray | Technobliterator: I'm on my phone, so I can't go off as much as I'd like to, but the the political dysfunction that has arisen in the past ten years has many many sources. On one hand, yes, the incentive systems inside our governments are skewed. Money holds more power than it should. But dysfunction also comes from the rise in extremist politics in the past decade, existing ethnic and racial tension between peoples and coun |
| 00:12.34 | Wormy_ | I.e. Geoneineering and planetary colonidation |
| 00:12.37 | Technobliterator | Our ability to destroy one another grows, yet we invest time in learning how to kill one another and extort money from people instead of growing to new horizons |
| 00:12.52 | Quark8 | Brb. |
| 00:13.03 | DrodoEmpire | We... *are* expanding our abilities in good ways. :p |
| 00:13.05 | DrodoEmpire | This is what I mean |
| 00:13.23 | Monet | To be fair we also growing to new horizons while extorting money form people |
| 00:13.26 | Wormy_ | It is possible in the future that our descecdants may move the Earth, colonise other worlds or even change the Sun for all we know that is possible |
| 00:13.30 | DrodoEmpire | I like to see the world as it is; Not good, not bad, just *existing*. Any other standpoint is absurd to me. |
| 00:13.31 | Technobliterator | Phone_Murray, I'm on my phone too, I know the feeling :p isn't a rise in extremist politics following a economic crisis normal? |
| 00:13.48 | DrodoEmpire | We have nothing to compare our world to, so why say its "good" or "bad"? |
| 00:13.52 | Wormy_ | And before ypou say thats crazy, you'd be surprised how much biology has changed the Earth's cmposition |
| 00:13.53 | DrodoEmpire | And why complain? |
| 00:13.53 | Phone_Murray | Individual and national scale, lots and lots of institutional decay. |
| 00:14.05 | DrodoEmpire | If you hare the world, make it *better*, in some way. |
| 00:14.06 | Technobliterator | In part, I agree with Drodo |
| 00:14.09 | DrodoEmpire | *hate |
| 00:14.37 | DrodoEmpire | I'm sure if you asked a Chinese peasant in the 1600's what he thought of the world, he'd say the *exact* same thing, just about. Same idea. |
| 00:14.37 | Technobliterator | But I just see so much injustice in the world and so much wasted potential it's sometimes heartbreaking |
| 00:14.53 | Monet | The space race was a dick-waving contest, the prominence of global markets was from a competition for the biggest profit margin, the best jobs in science are in the private sector and the internet has become as much a tool for exploitation as it is communication. |
| 00:15.09 | DrodoEmpire | Well yes of course. The world's not a *good* place. But it isn't necessarily *bad* either. Its no use despairing over those things. Y |
| 00:15.11 | Monet | Technobliterator: THere's a lot of unreported jsutice going on |
| 00:15.15 | Phone_Murray | Technobliterator: Not just in the wake of an economic crisis, but yes, this happens every half-century or so. Politics become gridlocked, Hitler rises to power, radical solutions are tried, and then things balance out again. |
| 00:15.18 | DrodoEmpire | *Use your frustration for constructive things |
| 00:15.21 | Monet | Because injustice sells papers and gets hits |
| 00:15.54 | Wormy_ | Technobliterator: It is heart-breaking, but not a reason to becomes pessimistic or cynical... Or utopian :D |
| 00:15.59 | Phone_Murray | The reason the world looks so bleak now is that we're in the middle of one of those portions of history |
| 00:16.07 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:16.32 | Technobliterator | I struggle, still, to see how we will break past our primitive nature |
| 00:16.40 | Phone_Murray | We're growing up in that climate. Normally, governments work and compromise, but it's a bumpy road we're on. |
| 00:16.56 | Monet | Is this primitive nature really such a bad thing? |
| 00:17.01 | Technobliterator | To the point where I think the best solution for us is to be replaced by robots that carry on our legacy |
| 00:17.05 | DrodoEmpire | Not reason to give up or complain imo. Just work through it at the very least. The world's the world. |
| 00:17.16 | Technobliterator | Yes, our self-interest and savagery is what's holding us back |
| 00:17.21 | Monet | OPkay ys people die and lives ar ruined, but competition has its advantages |
| 00:17.35 | Phone_Murray | But if we look at the long term trends, things are actually getting better. |
| 00:17.37 | *** join/#sporewiki Comrade_Vinny (b8a1360d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.161.54.13) |
| 00:17.39 | DrodoEmpire | Tech: Competition and self-interest are the only reason we've become *anything* as a species |
| 00:18.00 | Monet | COmeptition drove globalisation, the space race, the information age and the industrial revolution. |
| 00:18.01 | DrodoEmpire | The only reason *any* species at all has survived. Its a harsh truth, but its the truth. |
| 00:18.12 | Wormy_ | But you are suppressing your primitive gene-centered behaviour every day, and you clearly have the critical tools to reject cultural ones |
| 00:18.21 | Wormy_ | And so are we all |
| 00:18.32 | Phone_Murray | Global life expenctancy is up, there have been fewer wars in the past hundred years due to increased economic interdependence |
| 00:18.36 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:18.39 | Wormy_ | Whenever someone uses conctraception is a good example |
| 00:18.41 | Technobliterator | survival instincts got us where we are, and now we have reached the peak |
| 00:18.50 | Wormy_ | No |
| 00:19.06 | Monet | Technobliterator: That rhetoric was very popular i nthe 19th century |
| 00:19.09 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway, that's my view. World's fine. World is as its always been. Chaotic, beautiful, diverse, and violent. |
| 00:19.14 | Wormy_ | Cultural evolution and ideas got us where we are |
| 00:19.16 | The_Randomness | So, what are we talking about now? I was just doing some stuff in STO |
| 00:19.27 | DrodoEmpire | Why pessimism isn't a good mindset |
| 00:19.29 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 00:19.33 | Monet | We only seem to be at a peak because we don't knwo what the future holds |
| 00:19.34 | Comrade_Vinny | If humans were still relying on their "natural" instincts, we would still be afraid of fire... |
| 00:19.37 | Technobliterator | Why I think the human race is doomed |
| 00:19.49 | The_Randomness | Pessimism is a self-defeating and destructive mindset |
| 00:19.57 | Phone_Murray | Oh it's doomed :P |
| 00:19.58 | Technobliterator | And why I think our best hope is robots carrying on our legacy |
| 00:20.00 | DrodoEmpire | Comrade: We are. |
| 00:20.03 | Wormy_ | We are certainly "doomed" to change |
| 00:20.05 | Phone_Murray | One way or the other. |
| 00:20.05 | Monet | Randomness: Agree wholeheartedly |
| 00:20.08 | The_Randomness | At least be a realist, or somewhat optimistic. |
| 00:20.12 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:20.17 | Monet | Pessamists don't change the world. |
| 00:20.18 | Technobliterator | I disagree |
| 00:20.25 | DrodoEmpire | Monet: yeah |
| 00:20.26 | Wormy_ | Why are you certain robots are any better morally? |
| 00:20.30 | Technobliterator | As a pessimist, I'm never disappointed |
| 00:20.50 | The_Randomness | Yes, but that's because your expectations are so low that nothing doesn't meet them. |
| 00:20.51 | Technobliterator | I'm always pleasantly surprised, or unsurprised |
| 00:21.00 | Wormy_ | Well thats subjective, as an optimist I'm in constant awe |
| 00:21.11 | DrodoEmpire | Yet pessimism, unlike what pessimists tend to think, is completely illogical. :p |
| 00:21.18 | The_Randomness | Disappointment is not something to be avoided at all costs, it is a constructive response. |
| 00:21.29 | The_Randomness | It tells you that there is something to be improved, something to be changed for the better |
| 00:21.31 | Comrade_Vinny | When you see a fire Drodo, do you start rushing away for kilometers and kilometers like animal? |
| 00:21.38 | Technobliterator | Wormy_,it's not about morals, it's about their ability to be productive towards a goal without being interested in their own wealth and destroying what does not fit their views |
| 00:21.40 | DrodoEmpire | No, and nor did early man. |
| 00:22.00 | Comrade_Vinny | Well, early man did ran away from fire |
| 00:22.01 | Wormy_ | Random: Remember that scene where Data had a hissy fit when he made a mistake |
| 00:22.08 | Monet | I myself find dubiousness in the idea of "the machines will save us" for one how can we be so certain? |
| 00:22.22 | Comrade_Vinny | Only by overcoming our so-called natural instinct did we mastered it |
| 00:22.23 | DrodoEmpire | Early man was curious, and tried touching it. He then learnt, little by little, to use it. And thus humanity moves forward, reason and instinct marching together as a tenuous duo. |
| 00:22.24 | Wormy_ | Techno: That would fall under moral philosophy |
| 00:22.30 | Monet | MAybe error is a fact of self-awareness? |
| 00:22.58 | Wormy_ | No machine will every be infalible and without error |
| 00:23.02 | Wormy_ | *ever |
| 00:23.13 | Technobliterator | It won't save us, it'll carry on the good part of our legacy when we are inevitably destroyed, without carrying on the bad parts |
| 00:23.31 | Wormy_ | The point is finding ways to correct error, and hose principles apply to humans and machines |
| 00:23.31 | DrodoEmpire | He knew it was dangerous from instinct, yet his reason also told him that he may be able to exploit such danger for his own gain, and to give himself a compeitive edge. |
| 00:23.39 | Wormy_ | *those |
| 00:23.50 | Technobliterator | I would welcome a robot takeover for this reason, I have no hope for a species full of injustice and hatred |
| 00:23.59 | Wormy_ | I don't understand "the bad aparts" |
| 00:24.07 | *** join/#sporewiki GD12 (427591e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.117.145.231) |
| 00:24.17 | Comrade_Vinny | Therefor, it's when we overcpass instinct that we really grow |
| 00:24.22 | Wormy_ | Those machines would be nothing like us |
| 00:24.24 | Monet | Technobliterator: So I guess you have no hope for any kind of organic life |
| 00:24.30 | Technobliterator | I do not |
| 00:24.45 | Monet | Really? Because we're not that different form most animals |
| 00:25.08 | Wormy_ | Or they might even be programmed so "perfectly" to carry out human tasks you consider bad |
| 00:25.09 | Monet | Hell even *plants* are quite malicious towards each other |
| 00:25.10 | Technobliterator | Exactly, which is why we can progress no further than we have at a sufficient rate |
| 00:25.30 | Wormy_ | Why? |
| 00:25.35 | DrodoEmpire | Comrade: No. We *used* it. Its not something to be *conquered*, its something to be used as an aid for our survival, and something that determines what we do and how we do it whether we like it or not |
| 00:25.59 | Wormy_ | Our ability to understand things and make changes is increasingly exponentially, |
| 00:26.05 | DrodoEmpire | Instinct forms the basis of our mind, but yes, its our ability to *reason* that makes us human. |
| 00:26.15 | Wormy_ | In the Dark Ages people's lives hardly ever changed |
| 00:26.24 | Technobliterator | Too stubbornly sticking to old ways and opposing new scientific discoveries, too self-interested for any politician to care about growth rather than cash, too savage to not spend millions on finding new ways to kill each other... |
| 00:26.24 | Monet | Modern computers seem ideal because they're effectively too stupid to make decisions beyond that which can be put into an easy-to-follow flowchart. |
| 00:26.27 | Technobliterator | Need I go on? |
| 00:26.29 | Wormy_ | Wile the modern world is thwart with it |
| 00:26.30 | DrodoEmpire | Remove one or the other and we are no longer human. We are either a mere animal, or a robot. |
| 00:27.10 | Wormy_ | Okay... I agree humans aren't infallible, but I don't see why machines would be anymore infallible. |
| 00:27.16 | The_Randomness | ^ |
| 00:27.34 | Wormy_ | The point I'm trying to get across is that progress is more universal than that |
| 00:27.54 | DrodoEmpire | I also don't agree with this complete defiance of fact, Tech. :p I don't mean to be rude but such overbearing pessimism is blinding and irrational. |
| 00:27.54 | Comrade_Vinny | Drodo: No. Fire is fire. You can do whatever you want with it, yes. But it really is by overcoming the fear inspired by our "nature" that we domesticated it learned about. |
| 00:28.05 | Monet | The instincts that prompt war between nations are the same instincts that fuel the tech race between Apple, LG and SAmsung |
| 00:28.07 | Wormy_ | Machines would also make errors and find means to correct them. Its actually amazing humans *can* do that |
| 00:28.50 | Technobliterator | A machine wouldn't be too stuck in its old ways to adapt when new discoveries are made, it wouldn't care only for its own wealth, there would be no social issues or class separation injustice because equality is not an issue when machines are built with different jobs |
| 00:28.58 | The_Randomness | I can't see any reason why machines are any less prone to error than we are |
| 00:29.05 | Comrade_Vinny | See? That is what instinct brings. War. |
| 00:29.17 | Technobliterator | They are prone to different error to us |
| 00:29.28 | Monet | Because we are a higher form of intelligence |
| 00:29.30 | DrodoEmpire | How is this error any better? |
| 00:29.30 | Wormy_ | That is not the point |
| 00:29.38 | DrodoEmpire | Competition. Competition is the driver of all things, Vincent. That's all I'll say. |
| 00:29.45 | Wormy_ | ^ |
| 00:29.59 | Wormy_ | Cmpetition of ideas is what progress is about |
| 00:30.03 | Comrade_Vinny | No. Survival is the driver of all things |
| 00:30.14 | Technobliterator | Survival only gets you so far |
| 00:30.18 | Wormy_ | Survival isn't the full story |
| 00:30.24 | Monet | And survival incolves engaging in compeitition |
| 00:30.25 | Comrade_Vinny | But it is the bases |
| 00:30.32 | Wormy_ | Because what was once useful can become stagnant |
| 00:30.35 | Technobliterator | Once you no longer need to progress, with survival, you stop there |
| 00:30.43 | DrodoEmpire | What's the difference? In order to survive, you, you must compete. And only by competing can you survive and thrive. |
| 00:30.54 | DrodoEmpire | *you must compete |
| 00:30.56 | Technobliterator | No, it's growth that should be the drive of all things, not competition |
| 00:31.02 | DrodoEmpire | *should* |
| 00:31.03 | The_Randomness | Why? |
| 00:31.05 | Monet | Technobliterator: Survival instincts are stil lrequired i ntihs modern age |
| 00:31.06 | DrodoEmpire | It isn't *is* |
| 00:31.15 | Comrade_Vinny | Growth, and the appeal to a better life |
| 00:31.16 | DrodoEmpire | But what is "growth"? |
| 00:31.17 | Technobliterator | This is not the case, of course, and it leads to the ness we have |
| 00:31.20 | GD12 | what are we talking about |
| 00:31.20 | Monet | What job to take, what route t otake ot get to work, how much t osepnd in a month etc |
| 00:31.48 | Comrade_Vinny | ANd to acheive said better life, you can employ everything at your disposal, wich include both competition and collaboration |
| 00:32.04 | Technobliterator | A desire to improve and to expand should be natural, not because we have anyone we're fighting against to do it |
| 00:32.24 | Wormy_ | But those desires aren't actuallky natural |
| 00:32.38 | DrodoEmpire | Vinny: I never took collaberation off the table. In fact I wholeheartedly agree that collaberation is *excellent* |
| 00:32.40 | Monet | Technobliterator: Admittedly...it helps |
| 00:32.43 | Comrade_Vinny | Humans are not searching for competition at all cost. If competition brings more to an individual in a certain situation, he will compete, but if collaboration will bring him more, he will collaborate |
| 00:32.44 | DrodoEmpire | But it requires competition |
| 00:32.48 | Wormy_ | Desire itself is an abstract thing |
| 00:33.00 | Technobliterator | it doesn't require competition at all |
| 00:33.08 | Monet | Monpolies |
| 00:33.15 | DrodoEmpire | yeah it does. |
| 00:33.24 | DrodoEmpire | Competition is *very* important everywhere |
| 00:33.26 | DrodoEmpire | \:p |
| 00:33.28 | Comrade_Vinny | No... |
| 00:33.41 | DrodoEmpire | In economics, monopolies happen and monopolies are very, very bad |
| 00:33.44 | Technobliterator | Monopolies being detrimental just prove why we as a species are flawed |
| 00:33.51 | Monet | How many monopolies have there been that haven't resulted in becoming fat, lumbering systems that eventually fall to the wayside? |
| 00:33.55 | Comrade_Vinny | If you try to compete and stomp out your compadres at work Drodo, I garantie ypou will be fired |
| 00:33.57 | DrodoEmpire | In life, no evolution happens, which can be very very bad |
| 00:34.11 | Monet | Monopolies are proof that competition is good. |
| 00:34.11 | Wormy_ | Actually I think when it comes to ideas, its an interplay of competition ad survival |
| 00:34.24 | Technobliterator | Exactly, were we not greedy and self-interested, a monopoly would not be as complacent as one is |
| 00:34.35 | DrodoEmpire | I'm just going to... Leave you Vincent. I really can't... Nevermind. |
| 00:34.35 | GD12 | I don't think monopolies are strictly bad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly |
| 00:34.41 | Monet | But you're saying we don't need competition |
| 00:34.47 | Comrade_Vinny | Yah |
| 00:34.56 | Monet | Yet monopolies are when there is no competition. |
| 00:35.07 | DrodoEmpire | GD12: In specific situations |
| 00:35.08 | Technobliterator | I'm saying we *shouldn't* need competition, but the fact that we do is proof that we are flawed |
| 00:35.11 | DrodoEmpire | On the whole its bad |
| 00:35.11 | Comrade_Vinny | Competition is our natural instinct. And like much of our instinct, we must learn to put it aside when needed |
| 00:35.28 | DrodoEmpire | Tech: Then all life is flawed. Sorry, its how the universe works. |
| 00:35.35 | DrodoEmpire | :L |
| 00:35.38 | Comrade_Vinny | Otherwise, we end up like animals, always fighting each other |
| 00:35.44 | Technobliterator | I completely agree |
| 00:36.00 | DrodoEmpire | Then why complaint that all of life is flawed if you agree? |
| 00:36.03 | Wormy_ | But ideas themselves are competitive things, and useful in rejecting worse ideas |
| 00:36.10 | Technobliterator | Which is why robots are a better future :) |
| 00:36.11 | DrodoEmpire | Its not something that'll *change* anytime soon |
| 00:36.17 | DrodoEmpire | So why complain? |
| 00:36.19 | DrodoEmpire | Why worry? |
| 00:36.22 | Monet | If we created self-regulating and self-improving computer systems I think even *they* would ocmete |
| 00:36.23 | DrodoEmpire | Its a moot point |
| 00:36.26 | Comrade_Vinny | Ideas aren't a competition, it's the quest for Truth |
| 00:36.30 | Technobliterator | It's not |
| 00:36.34 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, it is. |
| 00:36.44 | DrodoEmpire | Its like saying "WHY IS THE SKY BLUE!? I HATE IT!" |
| 00:36.47 | GD12 | Competition in academe is a process of filtering out bad things for better things |
| 00:36.52 | Technobliterator | I worry and complain because we will never grow beyond what we are |
| 00:36.53 | Wormy_ | ^ |
| 00:36.54 | GD12 | Thats a good thing |
| 00:36.54 | DrodoEmpire | But really |
| 00:37.14 | Monet | Complaining means nothing if nothing is done about it. |
| 00:37.23 | The_Randomness | ^ |
| 00:37.25 | DrodoEmpire | How can we say for sure its flawed? Do we have another form of life that operates differently we can compare it to? |
| 00:37.40 | Technobliterator | My argument is only that our destruction is an inevitability and that our future is a legacy left behind in the form of computers that carry it on |
| 00:37.44 | DrodoEmpire | How can we say its bad? Like, its obviously not all good |
| 00:37.53 | DrodoEmpire | Seemed like a helluva lot more |
| 00:37.54 | DrodoEmpire | :L |
| 00:38.06 | Comrade_Vinny | Because collaboration is what really make us human! |
| 00:38.17 | Technobliterator | I am not saying any life is better than ours, or worse |
| 00:38.19 | Comrade_Vinny | That is the whole basis of Greek philosophy! |
| 00:38.27 | GD12 | Why do you think the destruction of humanity is inevitable? |
| 00:38.27 | DrodoEmpire | But yes its obviously an inevitabilty. Again, not something I concern myself about. |
| 00:38.32 | Technobliterator | I am saying we will never grow further than what we are |
| 00:38.36 | Comrade_Vinny | ^ |
| 00:38.37 | The_Randomness | why |
| 00:38.44 | Wormy_ | My counter-argument in summary is that you can't predict what future problems or solutions exist to make that prophesy; and B) machines and humans are both fallible and use similar principles to correct error |
| 00:38.44 | Comrade_Vinny | Ho wait, misreaded |
| 00:38.45 | DrodoEmpire | The destruction of everything and then some is inevitable |
| 00:38.52 | GD12 | Yeah but our technology grows everyday |
| 00:38.54 | Monet | Technobliterator: Well as the old saying goes, "don't worry, be happy!" |
| 00:39.04 | GD12 | And thus humanity's capabilities increase |
| 00:39.07 | Technobliterator | GD12, whether it takes thousands of years or millions of years, we are not going to last very long |
| 00:39.12 | Monet | If we're doomed to extinction, might as well make the best of our remianing years :) |
| 00:39.13 | DrodoEmpire | Tech: ...And everyone told the Wright brothers they wouldn't fly. What's your point? |
| 00:39.28 | The_Randomness | Giving up won't improve anything |
| 00:39.36 | DrodoEmpire | Obviously, we're going to march ahead. And we *should* march ahead. |
| 00:39.39 | Technobliterator | Our habitats will be destroyed, or we will kill each other |
| 00:39.50 | Technobliterator | I wish I shared the optimism of you people |
| 00:39.51 | DrodoEmpire | We've been doing that for millenia, we're stillhere. |
| 00:39.52 | Technobliterator | :'( |
| 00:40.06 | Comrade_Vinny | The Wright brothers weren't driven by competition, but by the gains it would have for them and all of mankind |
| 00:40.06 | Wormy_ | We shouldn't care wherher we actually do survive what we should care about is how to make solutions |
| 00:40.10 | GD12 | One obvious solution to this quandry is self-improving and self-regulating machines taking care of humanity |
| 00:40.11 | Monet | Technobliterator: I find reading less mainstream news helps. |
| 00:40.16 | DrodoEmpire | Vinny, stop shoehorning your point in |
| 00:40.18 | DrodoEmpire | I'm done |
| 00:40.23 | Technobliterator | Not really |
| 00:40.24 | GD12 | Anyway w/e |
| 00:40.27 | Comrade_Vinny | Well sorry if your point is flawed |
| 00:40.32 | GD12 | We're all still alive anyway |
| 00:40.50 | Technobliterator | I can't escape what I see around me |
| 00:41.03 | Wormy_ | Then you have a cognitive bias |
| 00:41.07 | Wormy_ | Sorry |
| 00:41.09 | Monet | "Who cares we're all going to die in three billion years" is not a productive mindset ,no. |
| 00:41.13 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:41.21 | Comrade_Vinny | ^That is true |
| 00:41.27 | Technobliterator | My mindset is not that |
| 00:41.30 | Wormy_ | This isn't a very rigorous philosophical discussion |
| 00:41.31 | Monet | It's...actually kinda silly when humannity is only 100,000 years old. |
| 00:42.05 | Technobliterator | My mindset is "we suck and demonstrably can never improve, our best hope is our replacement" |
| 00:42.18 | Comrade_Vinny | Monet: My anthropology teacher told me that if Earth life was reduced to a 24 hour day, humans would have been on it for aabout 2 to 3 seconds |
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| 00:42.51 | Wormy_ | Why our replacement, why not a replacement of our faults? I don't see why what you offer would work any better |
| 00:42.53 | Monet | COmrade_Vinny: From a biological point, yeah, our time on Earth has only jsut begun |
| 00:42.57 | DrodoEmpire | Tech: ...Yet we're inventing new and wonderous things everyday? |
| 00:43.32 | DrodoEmpire | We *can* improve. If not in nature than in technology. Again, no use complaining. Try and change something if you hate it that much. |
| 00:43.34 | Wormy_ | Comrade: But life itself is almost 4 billion years old, and has become interwoven the Earth's climate and even geological processes |
| 00:43.42 | Comrade_Vinny | Inventing is a big term. We are merely rearranging atoms and energy after all |
| 00:43.51 | Technobliterator | And subsequently holding them back due to age-old traditions, self interest and greed, and preference for war? |
| 00:43.54 | Monet | Technobliterator: "I can't escape what I see around me" that's because mainstrea mmedia put it everywhere. The trick is to look deeper |
| 00:44.18 | DrodoEmpire | Vinny: Nice semantics. That's what almost every process in the universe is, kiddo. |
| 00:44.27 | Comrade_Vinny | Yah |
| 00:44.48 | Comrade_Vinny | But it's kinda like saying: " I invented electricity!" |
| 00:44.59 | Comrade_Vinny | How can a human INVENT electricity?! |
| 00:45.02 | DrodoEmpire | ...Not if you actually invented something. |
| 00:45.07 | DrodoEmpire | What's your point? |
| 00:45.13 | Monet | I don't know how but lately I've been responding to ISIS activity and terrorist attacks with a rather distanced "meh" |
| 00:45.15 | DrodoEmpire | Just arguing for the sake of it? :L |
| 00:45.31 | DrodoEmpire | Monet: We've become used to the shit they're doing. |
| 00:45.40 | Comrade_Vinny | Inventions are ideas and ideas cannot really be "invented" |
| 00:45.51 | Comrade_Vinny | They are mearly discovered |
| 00:46.05 | DrodoEmpire | Its terrible. But perhaps its better we don't give in by being fearful. Perhaps outrage would be the preferable emotion though. |
| 00:46.06 | Technobliterator | ISIS won't last long, but they embody the things I think are flawed in our species |
| 00:46.07 | Monet | DrodoEmpire: Probably. Nasty shit happens |
| 00:46.23 | DrodoEmpire | Vinny: Again, you're speaking nonsense and aren't making a point. |
| 00:46.43 | Monet | Techno: Maybe take solace i nthe fact they *won't* last long. |
| 00:46.45 | The_Randomness | You're just deflecting anything brought up |
| 00:46.47 | Comrade_Vinny | Nonsense?! Plato wrote a full book just to describe that single sentence! |
| 00:46.57 | Wormy_ | Comrade: Kinda, well ideas are not derived directly from anything, they are developed and tested to eliminate error and get closer to the truth |
| 00:47.18 | Comrade_Vinny | Drodo: Sorry if you are kinda butthurt for earlier, but calling all I say non sense is stupid. |
| 00:47.24 | Wormy_ | hRead ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanatory_power |
| 00:47.27 | Wormy_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanatory_power |
| 00:47.31 | DrodoEmpire | Sounds like Plato had a lot of time on his hands. I don't concern myself very much with philosophy, and I don't very much appreciate nitpicking |
| 00:47.32 | Monet | Sure ISIS suck and are an example of humanity's worst, but look o nthe bright side: They might be goen in ten years |
| 00:47.41 | DrodoEmpire | Which is exactly what you're doing. |
| 00:47.58 | Comrade_Vinny | Sorry, but when I'm aggressed, I answer |
| 00:48.28 | Comrade_Vinny | And how can you not worry about Phylo? Philosophy is the basis of all science |
| 00:48.47 | DrodoEmpire | I don't read about it much. It doesn't interest me right about now. |
| 00:48.49 | GD12 | ISIS aside, I think there are things happening in technology that are exciting and inspiring |
| 00:48.56 | DrodoEmpire | What, do you have a problem with what I do in my spare time? |
| 00:49.07 | GD12 | that can have fundamentally good impacts on the human race |
| 00:49.10 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 00:49.24 | Technobliterator | I realise the irony of my POV |
| 00:49.38 | Comrade_Vinny | A bit, in the sense that you should read a bit about it. |
| 00:49.46 | Technobliterator | I'm arguing that humans are stupid and stubborn, and stubbornly stick to that view |
| 00:49.47 | Monet | Is it really that good an idea to treat the writings of a guy from 2300 years ago as gospel? |
| 00:49.55 | Monet | Just because he was smart? |
| 00:49.59 | The_Randomness | Hey kids, keep it civil. I don't mind the discussion, but keep the ad hominem out of here. |
| 00:49.59 | Technobliterator | :p |
| 00:50.33 | Monet | Ideas change al lthe time |
| 00:51.04 | DrodoEmpire | Vinny: And maybe, just maybe, I will. Regardless, don't pick apart everything I say. |
| 00:51.10 | Comrade_Vinny | Monet: No... If an idea change, then it becomes a new idea |
| 00:51.24 | Comrade_Vinny | But yah, new ideas keep being discovered, true |
| 00:51.35 | Monet | Comrade_Vinny: Sometimes the old idea sticks around |
| 00:51.40 | Comrade_Vinny | Yah |
| 00:51.52 | Monet | Not because they're better, but because they were around first |
| 00:52.16 | Wormy_ | Its more of an irony, its a bit of a fault in your assertions |
| 00:52.17 | Comrade_Vinny | DrodoEMpire: I highly encourage you to read the Banquet. It is perhaps the basis of what we Westerners call Love |
| 00:52.39 | DrodoEmpire | Just might. |
| 00:52.54 | Wormy_ | I find some of Plato's ideas interesting but he is no appeal to authoritary |
| 00:53.11 | Wormy_ | Philosophy of science has changed a lot since him |
| 00:53.17 | Monet | Yeah |
| 00:53.34 | Comrade_Vinny | Wormy_: Sicence is Philosophy. |
| 00:53.43 | The_Randomness | No, it is not. |
| 00:53.56 | Comrade_Vinny | It is throught Philosophy that men realised that it must be ration to drove science |
| 00:54.09 | Monet | It's like saying that despite all that psychology has changed in 100 years, Sigmund Freud's concepts are still 100% relevent. Even the wierd stuff like the Oedepus compex |
| 00:54.20 | Monet | Because he's the grandfather of psychology |
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| 00:54.44 | Comrade_Vinny | Without ration, science cannot be |
| 00:54.51 | Wormy__ | Comrade: I'm not critical of philosophy, in my view it can't be strictly seperated from science |
| 00:54.53 | Technobliterator | Science is not philosophy |
| 00:54.58 | Technobliterator | : | |
| 00:55.06 | The_Randomness | They are connected, but not the same. |
| 00:55.13 | Wormy__ | The scientific method has a lot of philosophy behind it |
| 00:55.15 | Monet | Philosophies can still become outdated though |
| 00:55.23 | Wormy__ | Such as falsification |
| 00:55.45 | Comrade_Vinny | Just like science can be, but it is Rando and Tech I totally disagree with that |
| 00:55.48 | Wormy__ | And also, science carries a moral obligation as well, to the truth |
| 00:55.57 | Comrade_Vinny | As soon as you start thinking, you are philosophing |
| 00:56.09 | Comrade_Vinny | And when you do science, you are thinking |
| 00:56.23 | Wormy__ | Philosophiocal ideas are not tested empirically, but can still be improved upon |
| 00:56.36 | Comrade_Vinny | Without Phylosophy, 1 + 1 would not equal 2 |
| 00:56.40 | Wormy__ | They also help scientists think about qiestions I think |
| 00:57.09 | Comrade_Vinny | Wormy__: Scientists, must be rationnal, do you agree? |
| 00:57.15 | Wormy__ | There is even a connection we don't really understand yet, between aesthetics and formal sciences |
| 00:57.19 | Wormy__ | Yeah |
| 00:57.36 | Wormy__ | You are talking to a Karl Popper and Enlightenment fan |
| 00:57.50 | Comrade_Vinny | When you are rationnal, you are making philosophy |
| 00:58.29 | Comrade_Vinny | And that is where you must seperate Philosophy from Pseudo-Philosophy, just like you must seperate Science from Pseudo-Science |
| 00:59.03 | Comrade_Vinny | Not all philosopical though are right, just like not all scientific though are right. |
| 00:59.34 | Comrade_Vinny | "The sun gravitate around Earth" That was a scientifical fact in the 1400' |
| 00:59.43 | Comrade_Vinny | Why is it not today? |
| 00:59.53 | Wormy__ | The means of how ideas in the two domans are tested differently, but the same rational proess of finding better explanations encmpass both science and philosophy |
| 00:59.59 | Comrade_Vinny | BEcause it was pseudo-science |
| 01:00.33 | Comrade_Vinny | Wormy__: As soon you start doing real science, you are doing real philosophy |
| 01:00.43 | Monet | Well technically no, "sun gravitates around the earth" was accurate at the time |
| 01:01.18 | Comrade_Vinny | Wormy__: As a geologist, what make of your studies of a certain geological formation a scientifical one? |
| 01:01.32 | Monet | Scholars made an observation - that the sun moved in an arc around the earth - drove the mt oassume that the sun orbited the Earth. |
| 01:01.34 | Comrade_Vinny | And in this question, I assume that Geology is a science |
| 01:01.54 | Comrade_Vinny | It's the method |
| 01:02.03 | Comrade_Vinny | The Scientifical Method to be precise |
| 01:02.15 | Wormy__ | Epistemologically, yes the scientific method is connected to criticism in many areas of philosophy |
| 01:02.24 | Comrade_Vinny | Exactly |
| 01:02.30 | Comrade_Vinny | The same applies to philosophy |
| 01:02.35 | Wormy__ | Though science is best for dealing with the physical word |
| 01:02.37 | Comrade_Vinny | ANd let explain |
| 01:02.52 | Comrade_Vinny | Let's say you are studyuing the formation of the Grand Canyon |
| 01:03.35 | Comrade_Vinny | And the method you use is by... let's say... Simply jumping to the easiest conclusion "IT'S GOD WHO DID IT!!!" |
| 01:03.39 | Monet | Pseudoscience is when an observation can't be reliably tested or is a claim that is inaccurately presented as a scientific observation. |
| 01:03.45 | Wormy__ | Anyway I'm not a geologist anymore |
| 01:03.46 | Comrade_Vinny | Was that study a scientifical one? |
| 01:04.10 | Wormy__ | I study computer graphics and scripting now |
| 01:04.34 | Wormy__ | But I try to combine them both, my study projects deal with SciVis, so I'm making 3D geology maps |
| 01:04.44 | Comrade_Vinny | Ok, but could we stick to geology plz? Because it is way easier for people to reference to rock than informatical data :p |
| 01:05.02 | Wormy__ | Yeah but |
| 01:05.25 | Wormy__ | I'm reaching out for the same methodology |
| 01:05.31 | Comrade_Vinny | Exactly |
| 01:05.41 | Wormy__ | Wich strongly applies to both fields |
| 01:05.45 | Comrade_Vinny | What make Science Science |
| 01:05.52 | Comrade_Vinny | Is the Scientifical method |
| 01:06.04 | Comrade_Vinny | Through the use of pure ration |
| 01:06.45 | Comrade_Vinny | Just like there is a proper way to do science, there is also a proper way to do philosophy |
| 01:07.22 | The_Randomness | What's your point here. I get that you're comparing science and philosophy, but why? |
| 01:07.51 | Comrade_Vinny | Because Philosophy is a science, just like Geology, Mathematics, Physic etc |
| 01:08.00 | Wormy__ | As do I, but its something I already understand and am marveled by |
| 01:08.12 | Wormy__ | No, I don't think it is a sbset of science |
| 01:08.31 | The_Randomness | Philosophy is not a science. |
| 01:08.40 | Wormy__ | Science could possibly be seebn as a subset of rational philosophy, connected but not owned by it |
| 01:09.27 | Comrade_Vinny | Philosophy is a science, furthermore, it is probably the first science ever tried by man |
| 01:09.30 | Wormy__ | Science deals strictly with the physical world but does not deal with matters of aesthetics (as does art), or mathematics (as do axoms), or morality |
| 01:09.40 | Comrade_Vinny | ^ |
| 01:09.50 | Comrade_Vinny | That's it Wormy, you just put the finger on it |
| 01:10.05 | Wormy__ | So philosophy itself is not within science's scope |
| 01:10.11 | Wormy__ | It is outside it |
| 01:10.29 | Wormy__ | We don't know where the boundaries are yet |
| 01:10.32 | Wormy__ | though |
| 01:10.48 | Wormy__ | As I said, many mathematicians can "sniff" beauty |
| 01:10.49 | Comrade_Vinny | No it's not, because just like in any other sicences, not every philosophical statements are true |
| 01:11.18 | Comrade_Vinny | But it is definitly in the science scope |
| 01:11.38 | Comrade_Vinny | As long as you do philosophy the same way you do any other science |
| 01:12.07 | Wormy__ | I disagree there |
| 01:12.31 | Comrade_Vinny | Philosophy is a science, as long as it deals strictly to the physical world. |
| 01:12.44 | Wormy__ | And nor do they have to be subsets of each other, what is imported is how and why those areas overlap |
| 01:12.46 | The_Randomness | But philosophy does not concern itself with the physical world |
| 01:12.52 | Comrade_Vinny | WHAT?! |
| 01:13.05 | Wormy__ | Important |
| 01:13.08 | Comrade_Vinny | That is completly false |
| 01:13.20 | The_Randomness | Tell me why. |
| 01:13.46 | Wormy__ | Philosophy concerns itself with higher abstraction, like beautiful, and the good |
| 01:14.00 | Comrade_Vinny | How many philosophical books were wrote about the phisical world?! |
| 01:14.06 | Wormy__ | Those things are outside the scope of science |
| 01:14.28 | Wormy__ | Natural philosophy that changed into science and also branched into other things? |
| 01:14.55 | The_Randomness | You are dodging my question. What does philosophy concern itself with? It deals with abstract thought, stuff like epistemology. That is not the physical world. |
| 01:14.56 | Comrade_Vinny | Writing about about higher abstractions is the incorrect way to do philosophy |
| 01:15.05 | Wormy__ | Also, its not what was written in the past, its about what ideas work, and what don't work as well. When we read physics textbooks we don't need to know the history of those eqauations |
| 01:15.34 | Wormy__ | No, you don't understand what is meant by abstraction |
| 01:15.48 | Wormy__ | Mathematical objects for example, are bstract symbols |
| 01:15.54 | Wormy__ | Qualia are abstract feelings |
| 01:16.05 | Comrade_Vinny | But the laws highlighted by mathematics are real |
| 01:16.19 | Wormy__ | And to a lesser extend, scientific theories too are quite abstract ideas who's principles we have to test |
| 01:16.20 | Comrade_Vinny | Andto discover laws is the object of every science |
| 01:16.34 | Wormy__ | But mathematics is also much bigger than physics |
| 01:17.02 | Wormy__ | It deals with worlds that are impossible in our universe or now found yet |
| 01:17.08 | Wormy__ | *not |
| 01:17.27 | Comrade_Vinny | ANd theorically, you also don't need to know history when reading philosophy, since theorically,m the historical concept of a writing doesn't afffect the idea an author is trying to tell |
| 01:17.50 | Comrade_Vinny | An idea is an idea, no matter the time |
| 01:17.56 | Comrade_Vinny | And ideas are timeless |
| 01:18.31 | Wormy__ | But they can be rejected |
| 01:18.40 | Comrade_Vinny | It depends |
| 01:18.57 | Wormy__ | Science is not based in irrefutable principles or prejudice |
| 01:19.09 | Comrade_Vinny | Can reject that a molecule of water is composed of two atoms of hydrogen and 1 of oxygen? |
| 01:19.19 | Wormy__ | Not locally |
| 01:19.30 | Wormy__ | But physics becomes more and more counter-intuitive |
| 01:19.31 | Comrade_Vinny | No, because it is fact |
| 01:19.35 | Wormy__ | No |
| 01:19.51 | Wormy__ | Read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verisimilitude |
| 01:19.54 | Comrade_Vinny | Water isn'Mt made of hydrogen and oxygen? |
| 01:20.41 | Wormy__ | Its only a local fact. People said that Euclidean geometry was an irrefutable fact, but the universe is not Euclidean on scales beyond our perception iof it |
| 01:21.00 | Comrade_Vinny | That question has been hask earlier and answere by this: |
| 01:21.16 | Comrade_Vinny | "What is true is true. What isnt is false". |
| 01:21.21 | Wormy__ | Smilarly, Newtonoian physics is fine on local scales of mass and velocity, but gives way to GEneral Relativity |
| 01:21.42 | Comrade_Vinny | Truth is Truth |
| 01:21.51 | The_Randomness | That's an awfully limiting view. |
| 01:21.58 | Wormy__ | Think about this: New knowledge is always tentative, while older knowledge tends to reliable locally, but not universally. |
| 01:22.03 | Comrade_Vinny | But it is the only good one |
| 01:22.17 | Wormy__ | But you cannot know truh with certainty |
| 01:22.17 | Comrade_Vinny | If something is false, even partlly, how can it be true? |
| 01:22.29 | Comrade_Vinny | Exactly |
| 01:22.34 | Wormy__ | Science is not about an appeal to certainty |
| 01:22.42 | The_Randomness | But how do you know something is absolutely true? |
| 01:22.48 | Wormy__ | So it is not based on certain axioms |
| 01:22.56 | Comrade_Vinny | Through the scientifical method |
| 01:23.31 | The_Randomness | But if something is absolutely true, then would it be infallible? |
| 01:23.41 | Comrade_Vinny | Yes |
| 01:24.03 | Comrade_Vinny | And that is what all sciences are after, finding the infalliable laws |
| 01:24.04 | Wormy__ | But *even* the scientific method is host to its own self-criticism, that is how science's criteria improves |
| 01:24.04 | The_Randomness | Infallibility is not what science aims for, and it is a trap. |
| 01:24.25 | Comrade_Vinny | You can always doubt, that is true |
| 01:24.41 | Comrade_Vinny | Because like you said, certaintity are very very very rare |
| 01:24.52 | Comrade_Vinny | But it is your duty to try aim for it |
| 01:24.58 | Wormy__ | I think it doesn't exist, though I can't say that with certanty |
| 01:25.17 | The_Randomness | As do I |
| 01:26.30 | Comrade_Vinny | The scientifical method is the closest way to ge to certainities in all science (yes, including philosophy). But then again, CLOSEST is not enough, just like almost the truth isn't the truth |
| 01:27.09 | Comrade_Vinny | *in all --> For all |
| 01:27.42 | Comrade_Vinny | ¸And that is why the scientifical method include self-cricticism |
| 01:27.42 | The_Randomness | Science does not aim for absolute certainty however |
| 01:28.18 | Comrade_Vinny | Of course it does! The object of science is to discover the Laws, the infallible way to predict |
| 01:28.50 | Comrade_Vinny | Of course, we are not acheiving this yet |
| 01:28.52 | The_Randomness | No, it just aims to describe the physical world and the phenomena we observe in it. |
| 01:29.16 | Comrade_Vinny | Why does it does so? |
| 01:29.32 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway... The snow's finally melting here. |
| 01:29.33 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 01:29.43 | The_Randomness | Fallibility is a central tenet in science, and what you are suggesting is that it aims for the opposite of that. |
| 01:29.48 | Comrade_Vinny | To discover the Laws ruling said phenomena. |
| 01:29.50 | DrodoEmpire | Means I can finally use my bow again |
| 01:30.02 | DrodoEmpire | Man, do I ever wanna use my bow. >.< |
| 01:30.20 | Comrade_Vinny | It aims for it, doesn't mean it reached it |
| 01:30.38 | Comrade_Vinny | And knowing that, it is why you most always keep self-critism |
| 01:30.50 | DrodoEmpire | Didn't wanna use it this winter because it was hard to set up targets in two metre deep snow, and its a composite, recurve bow. They don't react well to extremes of heat or cold and like hell I'm exposing it to either. |
| 01:30.51 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 01:31.03 | Comrade_Vinny | Do you shot crossbow too? |
| 01:31.06 | DrodoEmpire | Nah |
| 01:31.21 | DrodoEmpire | I use a composite bow. Really nice, if a little light. |
| 01:31.48 | Wormy__ | Science is bnot all about a prediction either, its about explanations. Reason, not appeals to certainty is the organon of criticism |
| 01:31.55 | DrodoEmpire | But yeah that thing is one of my prized possessions. Not letting a speck of *anything* get on it |
| 01:31.57 | DrodoEmpire | Though |
| 01:32.06 | DrodoEmpire | I wouldn't mind shooting an old-fashioned crossbow |
| 01:32.07 | Wormy__ | Knowledge is conjectural |
| 01:32.08 | Comrade_Vinny | Randomn, Faillibility is a important part of science, we are just discussing why it is so important |
| 01:32.30 | DrodoEmpire | I hear Qin Dynasty-era crossbows are really cool. |
| 01:32.38 | Wormy__ | Vinny we are actually find it very hard to understand you, as you kep changing the meaning of your comments, no offense |
| 01:32.40 | Comrade_Vinny | Wormy__: You are right, science isn't about prediction, but to discover the Laws |
| 01:32.59 | Wormy__ | You mean to discver laws to make the ultimate predictions though |
| 01:33.07 | Comrade_Vinny | Let me resume... |
| 01:33.18 | Wormy__ | Read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon |
| 01:34.14 | Comrade_Vinny | That is actually a view I endorse |
| 01:34.43 | Wormy__ | So why are arguing for infallibility? |
| 01:35.23 | Wormy__ | I don't man to be harsh, I'm enjoying this conversation as I too, like epistemology. But I'm find you hard to follow. |
| 01:35.26 | DrodoEmpire | Hm, I'd also like to own a gladius or musket too. A musket would be fun to shoot. |
| 01:35.41 | Comrade_Vinny | Honestly Wormy, the Chaos Theory also received it's truck load of crictcism |
| 01:35.45 | DrodoEmpire | It'd be tough though. Those things can have a hell of a kick. |
| 01:35.51 | The_Randomness | I bet |
| 01:36.02 | Comrade_Vinny | Ok, let meresume my stance |
| 01:36.08 | Wormy__ | Laplace's demon predates chaos theory. |
| 01:36.15 | Comrade_Vinny | What I mean is, Science (when done with the Scientifical method) is trying to discover the universe's laws (to reach Certainty) |
| 01:36.45 | Wormy__ | The universe may be deterministic but it isn't the same as being fully predictable. Its intractability that is the issue here |
| 01:36.50 | DrodoEmpire | Seeing as you're shooting a .50+ calibre lead ball out of a glorified metal tube. XD |
| 01:37.03 | Comrade_Vinny | That is what I meant, both side received cricticism, but I honestly think that CHoas theory is... well, I let you imagine the words |
| 01:37.27 | DrodoEmpire | Might dislocate my shoulder, actually. :L I'm not a big guy by any means. |
| 01:37.40 | DrodoEmpire | Eh whatever |
| 01:37.46 | Wormy__ | Well tell that to computer scientists, weather forecasters and indeed simulation scientists |
| 01:37.54 | DrodoEmpire | The cool thing with muskets is that you can put however much powder you want in. |
| 01:37.58 | Wormy__ | Or even seismologists |
| 01:37.59 | The_Randomness | heh |
| 01:38.01 | Comrade_Vinny | But since we haven't reached said laws, we cannot be sure, and therefor it is important to self-crictic |
| 01:38.34 | Wormy__ | And actually, chaos theory is deterministic, just not fully predictable |
| 01:39.03 | Wormy__ | Dn't let this comittment to certainty step in your way to researching those fields |
| 01:39.06 | Comrade_Vinny | Not fully predictable? |
| 01:39.09 | DrodoEmpire | http://www.31stindiana.com/media/Enfield%20Pattern%201853%20Rifled%20Musket%20-%20no_1.gif - This'd be nice to own. |
| 01:39.12 | Wormy__ | no |
| 01:39.14 | DrodoEmpire | An old Minie rifle. |
| 01:39.34 | Wormy__ | You can't predict the position and momenta of every particle in the universe. |
| 01:39.41 | Comrade_Vinny | Just like we said earlier, if something isn't entirely truth, then it's false. If the universe isn't fully predictable, than it is unpredicatble |
| 01:39.45 | DrodoEmpire | Pretty sophisticated as far as muskets go, but still stupid simple compared to modern firearms and literal *millions* were produced. |
| 01:39.55 | DrodoEmpire | They were the Kalashnikov of their day. |
| 01:40.02 | Wormy__ | I never agreed with that assertion |
| 01:40.17 | Comrade_Vinny | But it's still the case, that is just plain logic |
| 01:40.22 | DrodoEmpire | Can't be too difficult to get a hold of a working replica at least. |
| 01:40.24 | The_Randomness | I will admit I don't know much about guns |
| 01:40.28 | DrodoEmpire | Ah |
| 01:40.31 | Wormy__ | Science ams to be closer to the truth, but through reason, not justifications like certainty |
| 01:40.44 | The_Randomness | ^ |
| 01:40.46 | Wormy__ | Science =/= logic |
| 01:40.54 | Comrade_Vinny | Yes! |
| 01:40.54 | DrodoEmpire | Well I can't say I'm *too* knowledgable either. I'm mostly pre-1945 anyway. XD |
| 01:40.58 | Comrade_Vinny | Yes it equal! |
| 01:41.09 | Wormy__ | Logic is a fantastic btw but you keep mixing these domans up |
| 01:41.14 | DrodoEmpire | These weird friggin' ones nowadays aren't quite as interesting to me. |
| 01:41.16 | Wormy__ | Nope = / = is not equal |
| 01:41.17 | Comrade_Vinny | Science must be logic, if not, then all of it is just completly useless |
| 01:41.36 | DrodoEmpire | I'm a sword and historical gun guy. :p |
| 01:41.40 | Wormy__ | Well, do you know that logic can't be used to debate logic, right? |
| 01:41.47 | Comrade_Vinny | If science isn't logic, then we wouldn't be able to predict anything, and science clearly showed otherwise |
| 01:41.54 | Wormy__ | It collapses into a chasm of inconsustency |
| 01:42.11 | Wormy__ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems |
| 01:42.17 | DrodoEmpire | Pretty sophisticated sights on it, I just noticed. :p |
| 01:42.30 | The_Randomness | I've noticed, Drodo :p |
| 01:42.30 | Wormy__ | Logic is not about predicting physical motions of objects |
| 01:42.38 | DrodoEmpire | Most guns before that lacked them. Or had just the basic blade at the very front. |
| 01:43.01 | Comrade_Vinny | No, that is the role of Science, but science must be loigc, otherwise it wouldn't be possible |
| 01:43.11 | DrodoEmpire | Eh I guess there is a good reason for them to be there. First real rifles used by the regular infantry. |
| 01:43.23 | DrodoEmpire | Could go on sorry if I'm putting anybody to sleep. XD |
| 01:43.45 | Comrade_Vinny | If Newton's law weren't logic, then they would not even be explainable |
| 01:43.54 | Wormy__ | Just try to build a logical equation, from which to make all your conjectures and testing. You will find it will becomes quickly useless. |
| 01:44.24 | Wormy__ | If such oracles existed we would already have them. In fact it is exactly what 19th century mathematicians sought |
| 01:44.42 | Wormy__ | They only found inompleteness |
| 01:45.19 | Wormy__ | Read up on Russel's Paradox and Godel's Incompleteness to understand. |
| 01:45.33 | Comrade_Vinny | Such oracles? Do you realise how much energy would be require for that? |
| 01:45.48 | Comrade_Vinny | It is possible, it's just not in our grasp yet, and maybe it will never be |
| 01:45.49 | Comrade_Vinny | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything |
| 01:46.07 | Wormy__ | The Theory of Everything was never meant to be axiomatic |
| 01:46.22 | Wormy__ | And furthermore has its ow criticism |
| 01:46.47 | Comrade_Vinny | No, but it is based off that all the universe has,, deep hidden somewhere, somekind of Law |
| 01:46.52 | Wormy__ | All we have is our world, from which we make conjectures and subject them to testing |
| 01:47.09 | Comrade_Vinny | In the hope to find the Laws |
| 01:47.32 | Wormy__ | Our explanations may become deep like physical laws which they describe, but *not* immovable. What you are asking for would make science stagnant |
| 01:47.55 | Comrade_Vinny | Wormy, our both views are basically based on two opposed theory |
| 01:48.04 | Wormy__ | Like how Newtonian physics gives way to relativity on different scsls of velocity and mass |
| 01:48.27 | Comrade_Vinny | Well, yah, if the Theory opf Everything was to be discovered, yah, science would become stagnat. |
| 01:48.35 | Wormy__ | I think you are a positivist, and I'm a popperian |
| 01:49.02 | Wormy__ | However, kreep in mind positivism is really quite dead |
| 01:49.09 | The_Randomness | I don't think you truly understand what the ToE intends to do |
| 01:49.51 | Wormy__ | Furhermore, ToE wouldn't instantly explain everything |
| 01:49.57 | Comrade_Vinny | NOt really... That is an impression |
| 01:50.09 | Comrade_Vinny | Well, that is the the concept of it |
| 01:50.32 | Comrade_Vinny | But yah I'm a positivist, not in the Auguste Comte meaning of it, but yah |
| 01:51.07 | Charles_Murray | Oh wow, is this still going on? |
| 01:51.09 | DrodoEmpire | "Soldiers of the time spread rumors that at 1,200 yards the bullet (from the minie rifle) could penetrate a soldier and his knapsack and still kill anyone standing behind him, even killing every person in a line of 15." |
| 01:51.37 | Wormy__ | You wn't find positivists outside quaum mechanics anymore |
| 01:52.23 | Wormy__ | It is no good for a palaentologist to consider his Dino bones just a logical object in his mind, he conjectures that dinosaurs actually existed |
| 01:53.09 | Wormy__ | The only reason why positivism persists in the physics world is due to the difficulty of finding an intuitive explanation for QM phenomena |
| 01:53.27 | Comrade_Vinny | That isn't true |
| 01:53.27 | Wormy__ | But there is no need to assert such intuition |
| 01:53.43 | Wormy__ | It is exactly is |
| 01:54.14 | Wormy__ | Because positivists don't believe in a metaphysical description of what goes on in quantum mechanics |
| 01:54.28 | Wormy__ | They believe science to be subsumed as a logical language |
| 01:54.38 | Comrade_Vinny | Positivist studies are even considered more reliable because they rely on quantitative infos more than qualitative and are lot of time even considered more reliable |
| 01:54.51 | Wormy__ | But there is the problem, you love philosophy? Welll positivism is *anti*-p[hilosophy |
| 01:55.15 | Comrade_Vinny | No... Positivism is against pseudo-philosophy |
| 01:55.19 | Wormy__ | No, science rlies of qualitive and quantitive data |
| 01:56.07 | Wormy__ | My problem with positivism is that it too strong in its verification |
| 01:56.30 | Comrade_Vinny | How can you even be opposed to that?! |
| 01:56.57 | Comrade_Vinny | That is the very basis of the scientific method |
| 01:56.58 | Wormy__ | Because falsification is the method by which science works |
| 01:57.11 | Wormy__ | And positivism is self-refuting |
| 01:57.31 | Wormy__ | It asserts its own meaninglessness |
| 01:57.34 | Comrade_Vinny | Falsification is one way of verification |
| 01:57.44 | Wormy__ | No, its a different process |
| 01:58.23 | Wormy__ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanatory_power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_rationalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability |
| 01:58.37 | Comrade_Vinny | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability |
| 01:59.11 | Wormy__ | Falsifiability clearly also demarcates what science is, and science isn't |
| 01:59.12 | DrodoEmpire | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Grenade_launcher_with_grenade_Manufacture_de_Saint_Etienne_France_1760.jpg/1024px-Grenade_launcher_with_grenade_Manufacture_de_Saint_Etienne_France_1760.jpg - Huh. Cool. A very early grenade launcher. |
| 01:59.32 | Comrade_Vinny | Exactly |
| 01:59.47 | Wormy__ | But it isn't a axiomatic thing |
| 01:59.49 | Comrade_Vinny | And Falsifiability can be applied to any scientifical school |
| 01:59.57 | Comrade_Vinny | Including positivism |
| 02:00.51 | Wormy__ | Positivists wouldn't agree on falsifiability's demarcation. |
| 02:02.41 | Comrade_Vinny | Not really. Iddentifying the truth from the false is the very basis of the Positivism |
| 02:02.48 | Comrade_Vinny | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem |
| 02:03.16 | Wormy__ | But the process is different |
| 02:03.39 | Wormy__ | Positivists deny any realism involved in a theory |
| 02:04.05 | Wormy__ | Its about language and what it can predict |
| 02:04.28 | Comrade_Vinny | What? |
| 02:04.58 | Wormy__ | Karl Popper argues that some theories outside science can be meaninful, thats why he came up with falsification |
| 02:05.30 | Comrade_Vinny | If anything is outside science, than it becomes pseudo-science |
| 02:06.02 | Wormy__ | No, a theory is scientific if it is falsfiable, is what he is saying |
| 02:06.20 | Wormy__ | But not all things are falsifiable, like pure mathematics |
| 02:06.21 | Comrade_Vinny | What?! |
| 02:07.29 | Comrade_Vinny | Ok, Popper is basically saying " If I can't prove something is false, thaen it is not scientifical", right? |
| 02:07.39 | Wormy__ | yeah |
| 02:07.51 | Comrade_Vinny | That's very wierd. |
| 02:08.00 | Wormy__ | How so? |
| 02:08.17 | Comrade_Vinny | I mean, if you test a law, and it's always right, then it's probably right, until you can prove it's false |
| 02:08.39 | Wormy__ | How are you going to be ale to eliminate error if you can't prove it false, and improve your theory? |
| 02:09.12 | Comrade_Vinny | You can't, until new information (an experiment proving it is false) comes to you |
| 02:09.17 | Wormy__ | Look I think you are mixing up reliablity and certainty |
| 02:09.21 | The_Randomness | ^ |
| 02:09.55 | Comrade_Vinny | Not really, a Law can be reliable, bu not necessarly certain |
| 02:10.09 | Comrade_Vinny | *truth |
| 02:10.10 | Wormy__ | New knowledge under this conception is alays tentative, and older knowledge becomes reliable, but they cannot be assumed axiomatic. Like how Euclidean geometry fails to describe the real universe's geometry |
| 02:10.57 | Comrade_Vinny | New knowledge is also always desirable in positivism too |
| 02:11.03 | Wormy__ | It would be a real shame if physicists clung to Euclidean gemetry |
| 02:11.09 | Comrade_Vinny | I mean, let's take the heliocentrism |
| 02:11.45 | Wormy__ | But don't you see, if you assert the real natures of these entities to be meaningless, then you are saying explanation and philosophy have no role in science. |
| 02:11.50 | Comrade_Vinny | People had now way to prove heliocentrism was wrong, because they couldn't prove it was wrong until someone did an experiment which showed it wrong |
| 02:12.10 | Comrade_Vinny | They are not meaningless, there is, ultimatly, an ultimate law |
| 02:12.25 | Comrade_Vinny | And these laws are trying to reach it |
| 02:12.33 | Comrade_Vinny | Trial and error |
| 02:13.05 | Comrade_Vinny | Until you can find a ultimate law that everysingle experiment you test it on proves it |
| 02:13.19 | Wormy__ | You reduce science to pure prediction, and I'm sure most scientists want to actually understand the world and not talk about it at languages |
| 02:14.30 | Wormy__ | But that ultimate law is a abstract idea in your head, it bears on you to apply enough criticism to find it. |
| 02:14.35 | Comrade_Vinny | It's not pure prediction, I'm reducting the scientifical method to Empiricism |
| 02:14.53 | Wormy__ | 19h century philosophy |
| 02:15.56 | DrodoEmpire | http://imgur.com/gallery/m7fynr9 |
| 02:15.58 | Comrade_Vinny | But yah, checkable prediction are part of empiriscm |
| 02:16.03 | Wormy__ | I'm a formal empiricist, I think ideas are tested by observation, not derived from them. |
| 02:16.05 | DrodoEmpire | "SCV ready!" |
| 02:16.07 | DrodoEmpire | My sides |
| 02:16.15 | The_Randomness | SCV? |
| 02:16.24 | DrodoEmpire | Never play Starcraft? |
| 02:16.30 | The_Randomness | I have not |
| 02:16.36 | DrodoEmpire | Whoa. |
| 02:16.40 | DrodoEmpire | Surprising |
| 02:16.43 | DrodoEmpire | :o |
| 02:16.45 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway |
| 02:16.51 | DrodoEmpire | Its a science-fiction RTS |
| 02:16.56 | Wormy__ | You can find truth, but indirectly in my philosophy, its open ended |
| 02:16.56 | The_Randomness | Yes, I know that |
| 02:17.04 | DrodoEmpire | The "SCV" is the Terran construction and miner unit |
| 02:17.18 | The_Randomness | Ah, figured it was something like that |
| 02:17.25 | Wormy__ | I'm tired now I must go |
| 02:17.26 | DrodoEmpire | To say SC is popular in South Korea would be an understatement, so... |
| 02:17.26 | DrodoEmpire | XD |
| 02:17.37 | Comrade_Vinny | Well, you derive ideas from observation, tested them in all the way possible and then if it succed, it is good until it is proven false and if it fail an experiment, it is false |
| 02:17.39 | DrodoEmpire | It just came together well |
| 02:18.20 | Wormy__ | Ernst Mach thought that, so he didn't be;ieve in atomic theory or relativity |
| 02:18.44 | Comrade_Vinny | True, but we tested these theories and confirmed them |
| 02:18.57 | Wormy__ | And even if he was shown hard evidence of atoms, his philosophy still wouldn't account for the theory behind it |
| 02:19.03 | Comrade_Vinny | But I do understand him for not beleiving something that could not be proven at the time |
| 02:19.39 | Wormy__ | Yes we tested them, but the oint is, his philosophy denies any meaning in pursuing new theories. |
| 02:20.29 | Comrade_Vinny | Well, his philosophy and mine are different then, since mine stay open that a theory that has been proven true so far can potentially be proven worng |
| 02:21.13 | Wormy__ | My whole argument is that science appealing to infallibility closes it off |
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| 02:21.35 | The_Randomness | ohi |
| 02:21.37 | HachiTop | Hai |
| 02:21.51 | Wormy__ | And being without certainty hasn't harmed the pursuit of knowledge |
| 02:22.05 | Wormy__ | Goodnight |
| 02:22.14 | Comrade_Vinny | And mine is " A scientifical theory is certain/reliable until proven otherwise, by any logical means". |
| 02:22.24 | HachiTop | Oh are we still on the humanity conversation |
| 02:22.31 | HachiTop | It has been hours already |
| 02:22.38 | The_Randomness | No, just philosophy |
| 02:22.40 | DrodoEmpire | Nah |
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| 02:40.33 | Patriot868 | Hello |
| 02:44.13 | Aeo | Hello Patriot. |
| 02:44.35 | Patriot868 | What going on? |
| 02:53.01 | Aeo | Noting, really. |
| 02:54.47 | HachiTop | I like how this Externalization guy gives his character Tibiquay ancestry from the Zazane despite being an alien in order to have Descension powers |
| 02:54.57 | HachiTop | Like without even asking for my permission |
| 02:55.16 | HachiTop | I find it amusing if anything |
| 02:56.00 | Patriot868 | Yah, hes getting a warning for it |
| 02:56.42 | Patriot868 | He seems to be getting a lot of those lately |
| 02:57.01 | HachiTop | Dunno if he has read the actual rules or not |
| 02:57.15 | HachiTop | We should remind him those exist so he can read those |
| 02:59.10 | Patriot868 | I beleive that the new users who have arrived in the past few weeks should read the rules regardless. That way they don't need to get so many warnings. |
| 03:01.39 | HachiTop | Aye true, like Dingo and Glaven and such |
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| 03:59.35 | Aeo | test |
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| 08:35.27 | Wormy_ | hi |
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| 08:59.34 | Wormy_ | g2g |
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| 09:21.05 | Hachiman | Hai |
| 09:23.15 | AndroImpy | Hai |
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| 09:43.41 | Hachiman | Fucking bullshit |
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| 10:43.08 | Hachiman | Hai |
| 10:55.52 | OluapPlayer | ~cuddle Hachiman |
| 10:55.52 | infobot | ACTION grabs Hachiman and cuddles until Hachiman begs for mercy |
| 10:57.17 | Hachiman | <3 |
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| 10:57.24 | Hachiman | Quiet day today it appears |
| 10:57.26 | Hachiman | Hai Imp |
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| 11:18.16 | Hachiman | Hai Wormy |
| 11:20.34 | Wormy_ | Heloo |
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| 11:35.11 | Hachiman | Your connection sucks today Imp hur |
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| 12:23.28 | drom | Charles_Murray: NS is to have an Andasium industry. But I've trouble determinating the optimimal production rate of both pure and refined Andasium. |
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| 12:30.18 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 12:30.28 | Ghelae | Hello. |
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| 13:05.49 | Hachiman | Fucking internet |
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| 13:19.16 | AdmiralPanda | terror... |
| 13:20.23 | AdmiralPanda | oh god that was horrible |
| 13:20.31 | AdmiralPanda | worst... tank... ever... |
| 13:30.51 | Hachiman | brb restarting comp |
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| 13:37.33 | Hachiman | Right better |
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| 13:59.20 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 14:06.46 | TekDroid | Hello |
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| 14:26.53 | Wormy_ | Google is weiird |
| 14:27.00 | drom | Hello again |
| 14:27.13 | Wormy_ | Today they claim to have found Nessie ad a have a triumphant animation of it |
| 14:27.38 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 14:29.16 | drom | SS13 has an interesting concept of using black holes as for main source of power. |
| 14:29.39 | Wormy_ | American university culture is weird http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417179/students-fear-their-safety-because-conservatives-invited-speaker-campus-katherine |
| 14:30.02 | Wormy_ | trigger trigger trigger |
| 14:30.17 | Wormy_ | Come on, you are supposaed to academics, debate her then |
| 14:32.02 | drom | A singularity held in place by gravitional generators and is fed by a particle accelerator. Radiation is caught by some kind of collectors and converted into power and fed into big capacitors. |
| 14:33.51 | drom | Kinda looks like this. https://tgstation13.org/wiki//images/d/d7/Singularity_engine.png |
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| 14:35.47 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 14:36.15 | drom | So, my question is: Is it realible as a main source of power, concerning the laws of energy conversion and storing. |
| 14:36.16 | drom | Hey |
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| 14:38.31 | Ghelae | The idea of holding a black hole in place with "gravitational generators" isn't, but harvesting the energy emitted from a black hole is certainly possible. |
| 14:38.44 | Ghelae | So you feed it with mass, and then that mass is re-emitted as hawking radiation. |
| 14:39.14 | Ghelae | However, black holes don't emit very much radiation, and also the larger the hole is, the lower the energy of the emitted radiation. |
| 14:41.23 | Ghelae | A black hole with a mass of around 10^19 kg would emit most of its energy in the ultraviolet range, and would also be around 15 nm in radius. |
| 14:41.43 | drom | Then the idea of using field generators to contain the singularity sounds like a less realible too then. |
| 14:42.05 | Ghelae | However, its power output would only be around 3.5 microwatts. |
| 14:42.49 | Ghelae | However, it would also have a lifespan of 2.7x10^33 years even without feeding any matter into it, so you'd have a while before you needed to fire up the particle accelerators. |
| 14:44.13 | Ghelae | And the larger the black hole is, the less power it will emit. |
| 14:45.01 | Ghelae | A more ideal black hole for hawking radiation harnessing might be around one billion tonnes. |
| 14:45.58 | Ghelae | Its power output would be about 0.36 gigawatts. |
| 14:46.23 | Ghelae | It would be utterly tiny, however: at 1.5 fm, it's about twice the radius of a proton. |
| 14:46.43 | drom | Pardon, what is "fm"? |
| 14:47.00 | Ghelae | Femtometres = 10^-15 m. |
| 14:47.05 | drom | Oh right. |
| 14:47.11 | Ghelae | And the peak wavelength of emission wouldn't be much larger, so you'd have a black hole emitting hard gamma rays. |
| 14:47.12 | drom | Too dense to figure it out. |
| 14:47.47 | Ghelae | Its lifetime would also be 2.7 trillion years, so again you still wouldn't need to worry about the particle accelerator. |
| 14:50.13 | drom | Alright, serious question to confirm this fact. Can black holes decrease in size over time, then how much per estimated span of time? |
| 14:50.34 | Ghelae | When you get to a black hole with peak emission in the ultraviolet range, it has a mass of around a quadrillion tonnes, a radius of about a nanometre and a power output of less than 0.4 milliwatts. |
| 14:50.56 | Ghelae | Yes, black holes will decrease in size over time by evaporation (assuming hawking radiation exists, which it most likely does). |
| 14:52.31 | Ghelae | The equation is, according to Wikipedia, t = (5120*pi*G^2*M^3)/(hbar*c^4), where G is the gravitational constant, M is the initial mass of the black hole, hbar is the reduced planck constant and c is the speed of light. |
| 14:52.45 | drom | How much would it produce if it's radius is at 10 metres. |
| 14:52.52 | drom | Oh. I can try that equation. |
| 14:53.06 | Ghelae | I put a load of these equations into an Excel document some time ago, which is why I can come up with the numbers that I have done so quickly. |
| 14:53.24 | drom | Well. It's easier to put it all in an application. |
| 14:54.01 | Ghelae | A 10m radius of a black hole would correspond to a power output of 7.8x10^-22 W. |
| 14:54.40 | Ghelae | Large enough black holes actually gain more mass over time by absorbing cosmic microwave background radiation than they lose by hawking radiation. |
| 14:56.40 | Wormy_ | There's an alternative to Hawking radiation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_process |
| 14:56.42 | Ghelae | There are other ways of extracting energy from a black hole: if it's rotating, you can steal angular momentum from the ergosphere; if you have more than one, you can put them into orbit around each other and then harness the gravitational radiation emitted as their orbits decay and they collide. |
| 14:56.50 | drom | Alright. It sounds impartical as a power source compared to other power sources we know. Quite a disappointment that multimedia isn't always correct with science, but I can't really blame them. Physics is quite complex. |
| 14:57.07 | Ghelae | Wormy's link details the former of those. Harnessing gravitational radiation is also very difficult. |
| 14:58.47 | drom | Gravitational generators'd be emitting radiation as well. Recycling the radiation would lessen the resource costs for powering it. |
| 14:59.24 | Wormy_ | This is similar too, I'm not sure if its usesable but it can act as a dynamo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_paradigm |
| 15:02.09 | Ghelae | I imagine, if that could be used to extract energy, it would be another way of getting it from a black hole's rotation. |
| 15:03.09 | Ghelae | So as an alternative to the penrose process for charged rotating black holes. |
| 15:07.01 | Wormy_ | interesting |
| 15:08.18 | drom | Indeed. But I'm still puzzled about which source of power should be mainstream for my fiction. Provided that it's portable and can be virtual (not naturally made, aka man-made). |
| 15:09.10 | drom | artifical that's it |
| 15:12.59 | drom | And oh, SS13 uses Plasma as a kind of calayst to catch the radiation. |
| 15:13.53 | drom | But I take it as it doesn't make any difference. |
| 15:14.04 | Wormy_ | The simplist method of extracting energy from black holes might simply be to use their accretion disc |
| 15:14.16 | Wormy_ | Probably from stellar mass |
| 15:14.20 | Wormy_ | industrial zones |
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| 15:17.13 | Wormy_ | I'm pushing out of hard SF but I've implied the DCP has technology to manipulate the insides of black holes somewhat |
| 15:17.28 | Wormy_ | Such as when they set up a firewall |
| 15:17.44 | Wormy_ | Probably very simple still |
| 15:18.00 | OluapPlayer | DCP - keep your spam off our black holes |
| 15:18.14 | Wormy_ | yeww spam |
| 15:19.22 | drom | I wish I could flip the y to the glorious lambda characther. |
| 15:21.36 | *** join/#sporewiki Comrade_Vinny (b8a1360d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.161.54.13) |
| 15:23.16 | Wormy_ | Your wish is my command http://www.fliptext.org/ |
| 15:25.15 | Wormy_ | Unfortunately the tail is the wrong way |
| 15:25.28 | Wormy_ | But there must be a reverse text thing out there |
| 15:28.17 | drom | I know. And it is missing the small curly ends. |
| 15:28.40 | drom | But eh, I just write it has a up-and-down y, it's easier. |
| 15:30.37 | TekDroid | 2 hours to my final exam of the year. :D It's my programming course too so I'm not too worried, and feel even less so after reading a past exam for it. XD |
| 15:31.43 | drom | Wormy_: http://i.imgur.com/YJ96UVO.png |
| 15:31.52 | drom | Yes, that's a corgi. |
| 15:32.17 | Wormy_ | What tier level do you think tech is in this game then? |
| 15:33.59 | drom | Around 3-4 |
| 15:34.18 | drom | You can still estimate it by yourself by looking at this. http://www.ss13.eu/wiki/index.php/Main_Page |
| 15:34.45 | drom | The Chemistry room has machines that transform pure energy to any chemical elements. |
| 15:36.17 | drom | AI, Robots, Cyborgs, Clowns, Warp-drive shuttles, Black hole as a powerful source of power, Laser weapons, E-Swords (lightsabers) and etc. |
| 15:36.39 | Wormy_ | hm I agree |
| 15:36.56 | Wormy_ | I noticed information-matter technologies |
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| 15:37.03 | Hachiman | Hai Imp |
| 15:38.29 | drom | The virologists are even able to use plasma to create powerful dieases and then kill all their co-works with it. |
| 15:38.59 | Wormy_ | thats one way to take out your boss i guess] |
| 15:40.28 | drom | There is even something so called "Singularity Beacon", which is just simply a beacon that creates an artifical black hole which then grows in size as it consumes the station. |
| 15:44.49 | Wormy_ | drom: So I found this when I searched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYUhGRynyJw |
| 15:45.40 | drom | olol |
| 15:46.01 | drom | There is even funnier things. |
| 15:47.08 | drom | Wormy_: See http://i.imgur.com/ttHgPQi.png http://i.imgur.com/19SCxxy.png http://i.imgur.com/gAWmqNw.png |
| 15:47.33 | Comrade_Vinny | What^! |
| 15:47.54 | Wormy_ | lolwut |
| 15:49.04 | Comrade_Vinny | BRB, gotta go wash my eyes and rethink my life |
| 15:59.58 | Comrade_Vinny | But Drom, what exactly is this game? o.O |
| 16:01.12 | drom | Space Station 13 |
| 16:02.37 | Wormy_ | Have you listened to anymore Nightvale? |
| 16:04.16 | drom | Nope. |
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| 16:09.29 | Wormy_ | "If everyone, includng the women look like Putin, its Jan Van Eyck" http://imgur.com/gallery/2bpfs |
| 16:11.12 | Wormy_ | http://i.imgur.com/ANsqU.gif |
| 16:12.36 | Wormy_ | "Order fish from room service. Establish dominance." http://imgur.com/gallery/pq16dcf |
| 16:15.35 | Comrade_Vinny | What is the game? What is the gameplay |
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| 16:25.20 | drom | Imperios: http://i.imgur.com/JW6Vc3R.gif |
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| 16:31.01 | drom | He looks like a fucking Putin |
| 16:32.04 | Imperios | Putin in his youth |
| 16:36.33 | *** join/#sporewiki drom_ (~dpessimis@unaffiliated/drom) |
| 16:36.45 | drom_ | Russia is fucking Jan van Eyck's wet dream heaven. |
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| 16:46.53 | drom | So this pepper spraying was jusitifed. http://imgur.com/gallery/79Tc3 |
| 16:48.31 | drom | Just noticed this: http://i.imgur.com/xj79ShO.png |
| 16:48.45 | drom | Why the fuck? |
| 16:49.43 | TekDroid | What is that second one? |
| 16:53.32 | Comrade_Vinny | Drom: There is no way employing force against student like that, even to the knowledge of these, is justified. |
| 16:53.57 | drom | TekDroid: Dude recording with LAPTOP. |
| 16:53.57 | Comrade_Vinny | Something like that happened during the 2012 revolt in Montreal. Officer got fired |
| 16:54.47 | drom | Comrade_Vinny: Oh? It's about compareable to this: http://i.imgur.com/T0wWaRb.webm |
| 16:55.33 | Comrade_Vinny | HAve you seen the video the dude posted? |
| 16:55.40 | drom | Yep |
| 16:55.44 | Comrade_Vinny | The cops are able to move in and out the circle |
| 16:56.22 | drom | The situation is basically a lose-lose. Because they have to move out the arrested students too. |
| 16:56.57 | drom | Attempting to move them across the cycle. The students attack you and free the arrested. |
| 16:57.08 | drom | Short: They are doing their job. |
| 16:58.13 | TekDroid | It's not an ideal course of action but with that in retrospect the police definitely had justification. |
| 16:59.18 | drom | I actually have nothing against peaceful protesting. But this was just dumb. |
| 17:00.38 | Comrade_Vinny | No they hadn't. You aren't supposed to use any kind of weapons against protestors sittings in circles, that was the dumbest choice |
| 17:01.39 | Comrade_Vinny | What does it matter how many warnings they were told. Is it ever okay to treat non violent humans like this?? |
| 17:01.56 | drom | It's provacation so. |
| 17:02.06 | Comrade_Vinny | Provocation isn't violence |
| 17:02.18 | Comrade_Vinny | ANd therefor do not justify the use of force |
| 17:02.46 | Comrade_Vinny | It's like the policeman who beated down Ghandi after he burned his british passeport.< |
| 17:03.25 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (5164f74b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.100.247.75) |
| 17:03.59 | Comrade_Vinny | This kind of manifestation happens everyday, and they are always managed without that kind of intervention |
| 17:04.37 | drom | Destroying passports, provided that they haven't expired yet, is felony. |
| 17:04.42 | Comrade_Vinny | Furthermore, the officer misused the peper spray can. That's crowd-control pepper spray, you are supposed to spray it at 30 feet, not point blank. |
| 17:04.55 | Comrade_Vinny | Destroying a piece of paper do not justify violence |
| 17:05.55 | Comrade_Vinny | Especially when you are only destroy your own papers, not somebody's else |
| 17:06.10 | Xho | https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10420223_1578468352432966_206721587200145227_n.jpg?oh=4b91945aaba10ad8d4e4448b454077c0&oe=55DA2870 |
| 17:08.09 | OluapPlayer | spu |
| 17:08.28 | Comrade_Vinny | Pepperspray sitting people is basically like shoot someone in the face with a bazooka just because he hold a butterknife |
| 17:13.11 | drom | Felony IS a serious crime. |
| 17:13.23 | drom | It's YOUR responbility to take care of it. |
| 17:13.37 | Comrade_Vinny | It still do not justify the use to self-defences method |
| 17:13.43 | Xho | OluapPlayer: u |
| 17:13.46 | drom | The Passport is a national asset given to you. |
| 17:13.55 | Comrade_Vinny | You are basically trying to justify the beating of one of the greatest pacifist in the world... |
| 17:15.07 | drom | I can agree that it's a delusional way. But laws are laws, police are here to enforce them. |
| 17:16.05 | Comrade_Vinny | Police can easily use non-vio0lence in such ways. They aren't toddles and this kind of situation is the very original case studied at the police academy |
| 17:16.41 | Comrade_Vinny | They have the formation and the material to proceed in non-violent way |
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| 17:18.01 | DarcySupremest | Ayy lmao |
| 17:18.05 | drom | Hey |
| 17:19.13 | Hachiman | ey b0ss |
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| 17:19.59 | drom | http://www.sahistory.org.za/dated-event/mahatma-gandhi-arrested-first-time |
| 17:20.04 | DarcySupremest | how are we all tonight |
| 17:20.23 | Hachiman | Alright, busy doing homework |
| 17:21.09 | DarcySupremest | Man homework making a reappearence is something I won't like |
| 17:21.34 | DarcySupremest | Like not even since I left school, I mean even when I was still in High School I stopped getting it in like Grade 10 |
| 17:21.35 | Comrade_Vinny | That doesn't juxtify anything |
| 17:22.14 | DarcySupremest | Whenever I head to university will suck, for now I just have work |
| 17:22.14 | Hachiman | Well it is not *official* homework |
| 17:22.17 | Comrade_Vinny | The british policeman who did so could have easily handcuff him simply put him in jail |
| 17:22.24 | DarcySupremest | s bullshit to put up with |
| 17:22.29 | TekDroid | I'm just preparing to go to my final final exam of the year. |
| 17:22.37 | Hachiman | But like it is work that, if I *want* to complete it by deadline, I have to do it outside of college schedule |
| 17:22.58 | DarcySupremest | like my work blatently dodging a state law for my medical test |
| 17:24.13 | DarcySupremest | Not that my drug test would be incriminating but by law random drug tests are not allowed without a one month warning, so to dodge that, my work makes me do a 'medical with a drug test' |
| 17:24.36 | drom | Comrade_Vinny: Can you point me where he was beaten for that casue? The only cause I see an accusement "betraying the Indian cause". |
| 17:24.51 | drom | Googling with the same keywords. There's nothing about the beating in other pages. |
| 17:25.17 | DarcySupremest | Regardless, improper of me to -shove my works bullshit onto you all |
| 17:25.17 | Comrade_Vinny | He was first beaten up by the policeman who arrested him before being re-beatan by it's compatriot |
| 17:25.41 | DarcySupremest | As a side note I was thinking of making a custom tabletop for the Spore wiki |
| 17:26.02 | DarcySupremest | as sort of a way that empires can war and actually play them out like a simple strategy game |
| 17:26.48 | DarcySupremest | So that way more conflicts can have good old father chaos come sway them |
| 17:26.59 | Hachiman | hur |
| 17:27.33 | Hachiman | A Sporewiki tabletop RPG/RTS would be kinda neat |
| 17:27.37 | DarcySupremest | Its remarkably simple, to begin as a proof of concept I was going to make a ship combat thing |
| 17:27.48 | DarcySupremest | So naval battles can be played out |
| 17:28.38 | DarcySupremest | Basically there would be three ratings, based upon your empires naval strength and technology |
| 17:29.46 | DarcySupremest | Then built upon that a good ol' Rock Paper Scissiors set up, the mother of all strategy games |
| 17:29.54 | DarcySupremest | then ontop of that, elements which users can customise |
| 17:30.05 | DarcySupremest | armour, shields, bulkheads, weapons, speed |
| 17:30.17 | DarcySupremest | with these variables you'd roll and get results |
| 17:30.38 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/onvxSNp |
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| 17:31.31 | DarcySupremest | So yeah, I intend to begin work on it soon enough, this Fleet Combat Tabletop thing |
| 17:31.55 | DarcySupremest | This will be a proof of concept for an on ground thing with the same idea, but with infantry and tanks and other cool shit |
| 17:33.00 | drom | Sounds interesting Darcy, how are you going to make it? |
| 17:33.12 | DarcySupremest | How do you mean? |
| 17:33.27 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.86.246) |
| 17:33.59 | drom | The tabletop game you are talking about, make it as the traditional tabletop game or digital? |
| 17:34.11 | DarcySupremest | Most likely digital |
| 17:34.18 | DarcySupremest | Seeing as that way people here can play it |
| 17:34.32 | DarcySupremest | I'd probably be able to do it with roll20 |
| 17:34.59 | DarcySupremest | That used to be customisable as hell back when it was an application |
| 17:35.10 | drom | iirc, some people here are familiar with roll20. So it might be a good way to go. |
| 17:35.53 | DarcySupremest | I want to focus on customisation a very much lot |
| 17:36.00 | DarcySupremest | to give the thing a real sense of " |
| 17:36.08 | DarcySupremest | I am fighting this users stuff" |
| 17:36.12 | Wormy_ | To all STO players https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9199403 |
| 17:36.49 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@24.114.86.246) |
| 17:38.01 | DarcySupremest | So I'll give like roadmap bits from time to time |
| 17:38.10 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@134.117.249.97) |
| 17:38.21 | DarcySupremest | and like release the Alpha rulebook when its done |
| 17:40.22 | drom | Just tell us whenever you need help. We are happy to help out! |
| 17:40.39 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@24.114.86.246) |
| 17:44.16 | DarcySupremest | I'm willing to take anbody onboard who wants to |
| 17:44.28 | DarcySupremest | its not like this is "my special secret thing" |
| 17:44.32 | DarcySupremest | its a gift to the wiki |
| 17:46.09 | drom | I'm not experienced with roll20 neither am I with the modding API. But it would be interesting thing. |
| 17:49.24 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@134.117.249.97) |
| 17:52.08 | DarcySupremest | Here, you all tonight can help a little bit right now |
| 17:52.34 | Hachiman | I'll see what I can do |
| 17:52.37 | DarcySupremest | I need 6 starship types |
| 17:53.06 | DarcySupremest | Like, Not so much like "This is a battleship, this is a frigate |
| 17:54.02 | DarcySupremest | This is for the rockpaper scissiors aspect is what i'm getting at |
| 17:54.23 | Hachiman | Hm |
| 17:54.29 | Hachiman | Yeah I know what you're getting at |
| 17:55.09 | DarcySupremest | I need six ship types, I'm going with Frigate, Corvette |
| 17:55.14 | DarcySupremest | Probably Dreadnaught |
| 17:55.46 | DarcySupremest | I might boost that to 9 ship classes |
| 17:56.09 | drom | Charles_Murray: Found this, might help you with political science: http://pzxc.com/f/posts/37/fallacies.png |
| 17:56.31 | Hachiman | I thought "Dreadnaught" was an assigned role rather than an actual ship type |
| 17:56.41 | drom | When it comes to argurmenting. |
| 17:58.02 | Xho | Kicath - dreadnoughts eh we like those ships |
| 17:58.35 | DarcySupremest | Yeah but Dreadnaught is a much more fittingly badass name for |
| 17:58.48 | DarcySupremest | "Big hunk of terrorfying metal with a fuckhueg guns" |
| 17:59.12 | Hachiman | Could just use Destroyer hur |
| 17:59.29 | DarcySupremest | Destroyers if you want to be dicky are different to battleships |
| 17:59.35 | Xho | I like the term Dreadnought |
| 17:59.42 | Xho | Mainly because I make fuck-scary ships under that term |
| 17:59.52 | DarcySupremest | Their function just makes Battleships obsolete |
| 18:02.45 | drom | DarcySupremest: Don't forget to include Transport and Station. |
| 18:03.28 | DarcySupremest | Yeah those were given but stations and PDF systems and transports will be added in once I figure out the core rules |
| 18:09.24 | drom | I see. |
| 18:12.34 | DarcySupremest | That works |
| 18:12.44 | DarcySupremest | so I have it figured out theres 8 classes |
| 18:12.51 | DarcySupremest | and it operates in a cycle |
| 18:13.29 | DarcySupremest | A ship in a clockwise direction (on the chart) gets a +3 bonus to damage which every step scales down |
| 18:13.51 | DarcySupremest | until it reaches it's {Equal) which is a perfect match and gets no damage bonus |
| 18:14.07 | DarcySupremest | and then it begins to scale down, -1 to damage -2 to damage |
| 18:15.09 | DarcySupremest | So every ship, has a (Prey: The class it gets a +3 bonus to) an equal (+0) and a Predator (A ship that it does -3 to) |
| 18:17.01 | Wormy_STO | STO sector space now looks a lot more spacey |
| 18:19.50 | DarcySupremest | Now keeping in mind Carriers, will be like Transport ships and stations, supplimentary ships that will be added in later |
| 18:19.53 | drom | Darcy: Much basically "effective against" and "ineffective against" system found in Strategy games. |
| 18:20.04 | DarcySupremest | Yep |
| 18:20.42 | DarcySupremest | What should a dreadnaught be effective against, be equaled by and be beaten by |
| 18:22.48 | DarcySupremest | I'm thinking a lumbering bruiser would be beaten by a ranged ship, a missile cruiser maybe? |
| 18:23.17 | drom | It *has* to be something |
| 18:23.45 | drom | Preferably torpedeos, missiles and even bombers. |
| 18:24.47 | DarcySupremest | Squadrons will probably be their own thing, so not bombers (yet) |
| 18:26.11 | DarcySupremest | what would be the Dreadnaught's equal in combat ? |
| 18:26.26 | DarcySupremest | something that for whatever reason, the two would cancel eachother out |
| 18:27.48 | DarcySupremest | I want to say that a Dreadnaught is a big hunk of guns, basically its a broadside fighter, maybe its equal is a gun platform |
| 18:27.57 | DarcySupremest | a ship that has a central weapon |
| 18:28.39 | DarcySupremest | So basically, a Dreadnaught with its millions of broadside cannons, is equal to say a gun platform with a huge singular rail gun |
| 18:34.21 | drom | A10-Warthogs but bigger and pimpified. |
| 18:40.22 | DarcySupremest | Now what would beat a sniper |
| 18:40.24 | DarcySupremest | Speed? |
| 18:42.57 | drom | Snipers are stereotypized as weak fighters but lethal when unseen at safe range. |
| 18:44.18 | DarcySupremest | So getting close enough to actually fight it is their weakness |
| 18:44.24 | DarcySupremest | So yeah I will say speed in that case |
| 18:44.35 | drom | Speed and lethality in melee |
| 18:44.53 | drom | or close quaters |
| 18:45.03 | drom | quarters goddamnit |
| 18:45.47 | drom | It's bascially a tickle fight if you pitch a type weak in close quarters against a sniper. |
| 18:49.00 | DarcySupremest | So I have it as thus |
| 18:50.04 | DarcySupremest | Gun platform beats Frigate, Frigate beats Cruiser, Cruiser beats Dreadnaught, Dreadnaught beats Corvette, Corvette beats Sniper, Sniper beats Gun Platform |
| 18:59.53 | Hachiman | Imperios: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11159983_1006146486069897_2104817448864574057_n.jpg?oh=d12e54ed6aa970a96c8acc937b008205&oe=55D6D026&__gda__=1440948736_6aa7a85dc4857c6a041fd95370c74923 My ex shared this on Facebook |
| 19:00.09 | Imperios | MY GENDER IS POTATO |
| 19:00.14 | Hachiman | Exactly |
| 19:00.55 | Hachiman | Somebody brought up that exact argument in the form of "My gender is Mayonnaise" in the comments and they proceeded to get bombarded with accusations of "ableism" |
| 19:00.59 | Imperios | I'll be a Bantu and say that my gender is locative characteristic |
| 19:01.16 | Imperios | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noun_class#Bantu_languages It's actually a thing in African languages |
| 19:01.22 | Hachiman | hur |
| 19:01.49 | Imperios | Yes in linguistics there can be more than 2 genders |
| 19:01.58 | Imperios | Russian alone has like five |
| 19:01.59 | Imperios | Or six |
| 19:02.04 | Hachiman | It is like almost nobody realises that a good corporation does not give a shit about what gender you are, the gender boxes on forms are largely for data storage and navigation purposes |
| 19:02.09 | Imperios | Five |
| 19:02.13 | Imperios | Yes five |
| 19:02.20 | Hachiman | To make things SIMPLE rather than unnecessarily difficult |
| 19:02.49 | Imperios | MY GENDER IS VERBAL NOUN |
| 19:03.10 | Imperios | Admittedly "other" can work perfectly already |
| 19:03.18 | Hachiman | Exactly |
| 19:03.48 | Imperios | ...I opened a linguistics article that I needed to read and guess what it was about |
| 19:03.50 | Imperios | Grammatical gender |
| 19:03.59 | Hachiman | Oh wow hur |
| 19:04.12 | Hachiman | Also ngh I have more French students coming to stay here today, a group of four |
| 19:04.35 | Imperios | Feed them tea |
| 19:04.37 | Hachiman | They're going to be noisy, rude, and annoying because they're another bunch of dumb tweens |
| 19:04.38 | Imperios | Andd fish & chips |
| 19:05.05 | Imperios | *nationalism intensifies* |
| 19:05.09 | Wormy_STO | hive them yorkshire puddings |
| 19:05.16 | Wormy_STO | give |
| 19:05.22 | Wormy_STO | and spotted dick |
| 19:05.28 | Hachiman | Why should I give French Fries perfectly good English food that I could eat |
| 19:05.41 | Imperios | Actually wait |
| 19:05.51 | Imperios | Chips ARE French fries |
| 19:05.59 | Wormy_STO | -_- |
| 19:05.59 | Imperios | Yeah they're gonna like them |
| 19:06.06 | Wormy_STO | They are not |
| 19:06.18 | Wormy_STO | French fries are much tinner and fried longer |
| 19:06.18 | Hachiman | But French fries are not French |
| 19:06.22 | Hachiman | They are Belgian |
| 19:06.29 | Imperios | And Caesar salad is not Italian |
| 19:06.32 | Wormy_STO | They are more fat than potato |
| 19:06.44 | Imperios | And Korean carrots are not Korean but Russian |
| 19:06.46 | Imperios | It's complicated |
| 19:06.51 | Wormy_STO | Chips have a completely different taste and smell |
| 19:07.13 | Wormy_STO | You can't get good chips anywhere else in the world, so you won't know >:( |
| 19:07.19 | Hachiman | I like thick chips in moderation but I can eat French fries for longer hur |
| 19:07.20 | Imperios | Chips are the less fried ones, right? |
| 19:07.39 | Imperios | And the larger ones |
| 19:07.58 | Hachiman | Yeah |
| 19:08.00 | Wormy_STO | yeah, often quite a bit fatter |
| 19:08.30 | Wormy_STO | I once went to Greece and was served chips, it was smothered in herbs and I expected salt and vinegar |
| 19:08.47 | Imperios | We call both the same in Russia hur |
| 19:08.49 | Imperios | "Fri potatoes" |
| 19:09.08 | Imperios | Or alternatively "decadent evil American McDonalds poison food" |
| 19:09.20 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (8eb1b181@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.177.177.129) |
| 19:09.50 | DrodoEmpire | Hey everyone |
| 19:10.12 | Wormy_STO | hi |
| 19:10.16 | Ghel | Hello. |
| 19:11.22 | Hachiman | Oh goody here they are |
| 19:11.24 | Hachiman | Fuck |
| 19:11.35 | DrodoEmpire | Hm? |
| 19:12.31 | Hachiman | Noisy, rude, and dumb French students |
| 19:12.43 | Wormy_STO | Tell them to to sing God save the Queen for every year of her life before they can enter |
| 19:12.47 | Hachiman | I do not hate them because they are French by the way; I hate them because they are dumb tweens |
| 19:12.48 | DrodoEmpire | I see. :/ |
| 19:13.08 | Hachiman | Wormy_STO: I would but I am anti-Royalist |
| 19:13.34 | Hachiman | I do not appreciate reptilians taking tax money to pay for their own leisures |
| 19:13.41 | Wormy_STO | steams with boiling tea |
| 19:13.50 | Wormy_STO | (jk) |
| 19:13.50 | Technobliterator | per Hachiman |
| 19:14.02 | Imperios | Get rid of your royal family then give it to us |
| 19:14.06 | DarcySupremest | Carn the Republic |
| 19:14.21 | DarcySupremest | Irish blood runs deepest brother, |
| 19:15.09 | Hachiman | I am anything but a patriot hur |
| 19:15.22 | Technobliterator | ^ |
| 19:15.53 | Technobliterator | If anything, I'm anti-Britain, we have nothing of note that we didn't steal and we started the slave trade |
| 19:16.08 | Imperios | Nope you didn't |
| 19:16.12 | Imperios | Arabs and the Spanish did |
| 19:16.21 | Imperios | You promulgated it but you did not start it |
| 19:16.21 | Wormy_STO | ^ |
| 19:16.36 | Technobliterator | that...doesn't make me feel any better about it |
| 19:16.38 | Imperios | Also nothing wrong with adopting someone else's stuff |
| 19:16.44 | Wormy_STO | Also, we have invented many things like the Industrial Revolution |
| 19:16.48 | Imperios | Yes this |
| 19:16.51 | Technobliterator | There is when you have people who claim it as ours |
| 19:16.53 | Technobliterator | Okay, I'll give us that |
| 19:17.01 | Hachiman | But we did not adopt |
| 19:17.05 | Hachiman | We stole hur |
| 19:17.10 | Hachiman | And then gradually adopted afterwards |
| 19:17.12 | Imperios | Look how much we stole |
| 19:17.12 | DarcySupremest | Now we can all agree that regardless of who made Slavery |
| 19:17.16 | DarcySupremest | The Americans perfected it |
| 19:17.29 | Imperios | Gimme any famous Russian thing |
| 19:17.33 | Wormy_STO | Any most cultures adopted other cultures lol |
| 19:17.34 | Hachiman | Putin |
| 19:17.38 | DarcySupremest | Putin |
| 19:17.48 | Wormy_STO | Like the Romans |
| 19:17.49 | Imperios | ...Is likely of Tatar or Udmurt descent, or so it is told |
| 19:17.52 | Imperios | So yeah, adopted too |
| 19:17.52 | Technobliterator | the USSR |
| 19:18.00 | Hachiman | Communism |
| 19:18.08 | Hachiman | Marxism |
| 19:18.14 | DarcySupremest | Satan V nuclear ICBMs |
| 19:18.27 | Imperios | Based on the teachings of a German philosopher promulgated by a Jew and turned into a super-powerful ideology by a Georgian |
| 19:18.40 | DarcySupremest | Gotta love that 6 warhead payload, Mmmmhmmmm~ |
| 19:18.42 | DarcySupremest | Apocalpsy |
| 19:18.50 | Hachiman | Six warheads |
| 19:18.53 | Hachiman | Jesus Christ |
| 19:18.57 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (0597530b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.83.11) |
| 19:19.01 | Hachiman | Hai Mon |
| 19:19.05 | DarcySupremest | all independantly guides |
| 19:19.05 | Imperios | See, nothing wrong with taking stuff from others |
| 19:19.07 | Imperios | Hi Monet |
| 19:19.09 | Ghel | Hello. |
| 19:19.12 | DarcySupremest | So you can have one big sexy super nuke |
| 19:19.18 | DarcySupremest | or nuke 6 different locations |
| 19:19.35 | DarcySupremest | The russians were frighteningly good at Nuclear War |
| 19:19.41 | Imperios | True |
| 19:19.50 | Hachiman | Russia gave us the tale of Laika |
| 19:19.58 | Imperios | COMRADE LAIKA ROCKET DOG |
| 19:20.01 | Imperios | HERO OF THE SOVIET STATE |
| 19:20.03 | Wormy_STO | Darcy http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bomb_ride_9769.png |
| 19:20.05 | Hachiman | ayy |
| 19:20.16 | Imperios | Also back then slavery was necessary to advance, it's easy for us to condemn the past but in actuality a lot of what we find appaling was acceptable |
| 19:20.18 | DarcySupremest | Infact I'd argue that if the Cold War had come down to an exchange |
| 19:20.28 | DarcySupremest | Russia would have probably come out of it the most alive |
| 19:20.43 | Hachiman | If only by the merit of Russia being larger than America hur |
| 19:20.46 | Imperios | WE WOULD HAVE EXTERMINATED YOU IN THE GLORY OF COMMUNISM |
| 19:20.54 | Hachiman | Or at least I believe it is larger than America |
| 19:20.55 | DarcySupremest | I mean they had the Moscow Metro fit for shelter, they had Dead Hand |
| 19:20.58 | Imperios | We'd just all flee to Siberia and become brutal |
| 19:21.03 | Imperios | That too |
| 19:21.17 | DarcySupremest | Dead Hand is so creepy and spoopy |
| 19:21.33 | Imperios | Monet: We are talking about British patriotism, or, rather, were |
| 19:21.46 | Imperios | Oh and here's what I planned about the British monarchy |
| 19:21.55 | Imperios | You Brits overthrow it |
| 19:21.58 | Imperios | Then give it to us |
| 19:22.06 | DarcySupremest | A node network of automated nuclear silos that auto-launch to preset targets if the nodes detect radiation, head and seismic waves |
| 19:22.11 | Imperios | Then Putin marries princess Eugenie of York |
| 19:22.28 | Imperios | Then he uses his KGB skills to eliminate the Queen and all potential contestants for throne |
| 19:22.32 | Imperios | Then Eugenie is crowned |
| 19:22.35 | Imperios | Then Putin kills her |
| 19:22.48 | Imperios | And becomes Emperor Vladimir I |
| 19:22.59 | Monet | Cept them onarchy doesn't mean much anymore |
| 19:23.05 | Monet | monarchy* |
| 19:23.18 | Imperios | Hachi and Jo are anti-monarchy |
| 19:23.26 | Imperios | I proposed a way to deal with it |
| 19:23.33 | DarcySupremest | By the way the core classes for this naval battle game are done in theory for the most part |
| 19:23.44 | Monet | http://media3.popsugar-assets.com/files/2013/06/19/037/n/1922398/ac134012a02fb5e8_170797450.xxxlarge_2x/i/First-Cousin-Once-Removed-Princess-Eugenie-York.jpg wh, Putin can probably have her lol |
| 19:24.02 | Wormy_STO | The Queen would escape on her spaceship and zap Russia with lazors |
| 19:24.04 | DarcySupremest | So I'll probably make a blog post about the game |
| 19:24.07 | DarcySupremest | and then pass out |
| 19:24.32 | Imperios | I wouldn't call myself a patriot but then again I don't like the opposition to the estabilished government even more |
| 19:24.50 | Imperios | They're largely either clueless idiots, American fanboys, or populists |
| 19:24.53 | Hachiman | That is just your North Korean blood speaking |
| 19:24.58 | Imperios | Maybe |
| 19:25.03 | Monet | I see the Queen as useful to the economy. |
| 19:25.19 | Hachiman | Yes because Britain is currently not in an economic crisis |
| 19:25.23 | Hachiman | God bless the Queen |
| 19:25.42 | Wormy_STO | yeah we'd have less money without the royals, taxes would go up and less tourism |
| 19:26.00 | Imperios | I have a lot of things I do not agree with but it is very hard to discuss things with people whose strategy boils down to "KILL PUTIN PRAISE MUHRICA" |
| 19:26.23 | Hachiman | >Kill Putin |
| 19:26.27 | Hachiman | How is that possible |
| 19:26.32 | Imperios | Exactly |
| 19:26.39 | DarcySupremest | Putin transcends time and space |
| 19:26.49 | DarcySupremest | he is the Elder One of Rigged Elections |
| 19:26.50 | Monet | Hey the Monarchy brings in between £500-700 million a year in tourism |
| 19:26.51 | Wormy_STO | Great, NSA, GCHQ and now the KGB will be watchiong this chat. |
| 19:27.22 | Hachiman | Like you are literally talking about attempting the life of an immortal demigod with mortal weaponry |
| 19:27.43 | Hachiman | It cannot be done |
| 19:28.03 | Monet | Will and Kate's wedding brought in metric craptons of publicity for the UK |
| 19:28.25 | Imperios | DarcySupremest: Ph'nglui ednw'yah R'syah P'utin shtab'lity fhtagn |
| 19:28.40 | Monet | If the Monarchy are so pointless then how come yanks and Canadians went crazy at the wedding? |
| 19:28.43 | Imperios | Oh god |
| 19:28.51 | Imperios | Your discussion made me want to visit Russian /pol/ |
| 19:29.03 | DarcySupremest | Because people went crazy about a weirdly coloured dress Monet |
| 19:29.04 | Monet | I think North Americans love the monarchy more than we do lol |
| 19:29.04 | Imperios | The first thread is "I want to kill Putin during the Victory Day parade, can you help me?" |
| 19:29.26 | Hachiman | >can you help me |
| 19:29.40 | Hachiman | You would require more than a mere army to challenge Putin |
| 19:29.47 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@24.114.87.185) |
| 19:29.50 | DarcySupremest | I feel as if the KGB's methods are getting weeker |
| 19:30.03 | Imperios | Putin uses his Super KGBiyan form |
| 19:30.04 | DarcySupremest | if all they do is say :"Would you kill the president, pls tell us" |
| 19:30.08 | DarcySupremest | "Pls respond" |
| 19:30.18 | DarcySupremest | "pls" |
| 19:30.31 | Tek0516 | Woo! I have officially finished my first year of university! |
| 19:30.31 | Monet | "To be fair, the royals do "work," in a sense: they put on charity events, they travel to meet with foreign dignitaries, and occasionally they have military duties (William is in the Royal Air Force)" http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/07/is-the-british-royal-family-worth-the-money/278052/ |
| 19:30.36 | DarcySupremest | "Promise am not KGB agent, pls respond" |
| 19:30.41 | Imperios | You know I actually wonder if Putin reads Russian /pol/ at times |
| 19:31.00 | DarcySupremest | points at Tek0516 and claps loudly for |
| 19:31.14 | Hachiman | I heard that the Russian government recently prohibited the usage of memes that defaced Russian political figures for humour value |
| 19:31.23 | Hachiman | So he has probably made a visit once or twice |
| 19:31.34 | Imperios | Not political figures, just any important figures |
| 19:31.42 | Imperios | It was because of that butthurt celebrity |
| 19:31.45 | OluapPlayer | Chans are a minority, their opinion is not relevant |
| 19:31.54 | Imperios | Still does not work, everybody mocks everybody |
| 19:31.55 | Imperios | Fuck the law |
| 19:31.57 | Monet | Its kind of surprising how willfully oblibious people can be to what's *not* on TV or posted on Reddit. |
| 19:32.00 | Imperios | Fuck Putin |
| 19:32.31 | Hachiman | I wonder who would win in a battle |
| 19:32.35 | Imperios | ...So apparently the guy who posted that was Ukrainian |
| 19:32.36 | Hachiman | Abraham Lincoln or Putin |
| 19:32.51 | Monet | Will's an RAF man and can fly a helicopter. |
| 19:32.55 | Imperios | From Kharkiv |
| 19:32.56 | Hachiman | Or rather Teddy Roosevelt / Abraham Lincoln vs. Putin |
| 19:33.04 | Imperios | I think I know what city will join Russia next |
| 19:33.45 | Monet | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-11476357 c, not useless |
| 19:35.14 | Imperios | OluapPlayer: Our chan /pol/ is not even *our* minority, it's basically 90% Ukrainian |
| 19:35.26 | Imperios | Ever since the war it is basically under near-complete Ukrainian occupation |
| 19:35.41 | Imperios | There are at least two sub-boards devoted solely to Ukraine |
| 19:35.56 | Monet | Hachiman: THere's no guarentee the prohibition was Putin's idea. |
| 19:36.23 | Monet | Unless elections in Russia work differently and give figureheads more complete control |
| 19:36.30 | Hachiman | I imagine Putin would support memes that emphasize on his masculinity and siperiority |
| 19:36.35 | Hachiman | superiority even |
| 19:37.12 | Imperios | Putin does not enact laws, the Duma does |
| 19:37.23 | Imperios | The Duma is Putin-aligned, of course, but still |
| 19:37.31 | Imperios | Not sure if it was his initiative |
| 19:38.01 | Imperios | The gay law wasn't his idea that's for sure, that was from that closeted gay from our city |
| 19:38.38 | DarcySupremest | Alright |
| 19:38.44 | DarcySupremest | Wikiboard post on the game is made |
| 19:38.46 | Imperios | https://youtu.be/mH8V8nVYcTk?t=103 That guy |
| 19:38.50 | DarcySupremest | I'm going to go pass out |
| 19:38.55 | DarcySupremest | Night everybody! |
| 19:39.01 | Hachiman | Night Darcy |
| 19:39.19 | Wormy_STO | night |
| 19:39.30 | Imperios | He visits gay bars to "check them for keeping to the homosexual propaganda law" |
| 19:39.31 | Hachiman | Monet: http://pre05.deviantart.net/598d/th/pre/f/2015/111/0/d/iron_man__the_sorcerer_of_snark_by_thedurrrrian-d8qiyf9.jpg Should be Varthen at Level 10 or so |
| 19:39.36 | Wormy_STO | don't let bed bugs bite |
| 19:39.40 | Imperios | Varthen? |
| 19:40.01 | Monet | Hachiman: That is pretty fricking cool. |
| 19:40.14 | Hachiman | There is also a Captain America equivalent |
| 19:40.21 | Hachiman | Called Captain New World |
| 19:40.37 | Monet | Lol |
| 19:40.46 | Imperios | http://img2.ntv.ru/home/news/20150201/mil.jpg That guy, on the right |
| 19:40.51 | Hachiman | http://pre12.deviantart.net/77b0/th/pre/f/2015/109/8/0/captain_new_world_by_thedurrrrian-d8qa095.jpg |
| 19:40.59 | Hachiman | olol |
| 19:41.10 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.87.185) |
| 19:41.22 | Monet | Hachiman: More like Captain Scandinavia heh |
| 19:43.53 | Wormy_STO | Imperios: Someone posted this the other day on facebook https://www.facebook.com/hope.n.hate/photos/a.159736531853.129947.91897231853/10152085112786854/?type=1 |
| 19:45.13 | Wormy_STO | Monet, Technobliterator: http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2015/04/17/english-teacher-decided-mark-ukip-election-flyer-came-letterbox/ |
| 19:45.36 | Technobliterator | hahahahahahahaha |
| 19:47.09 | Monet | "will take back control of our boarders" |
| 19:47.40 | Monet | You'd think a party that's obsessed with the integrity of our national borders could at least spel lthe word correctly. |
| 19:48.19 | Monet | "town center" is also juicily ironic form UKIP |
| 19:48.23 | Wormy_STO | And not use American English |
| 19:49.14 | TekDroid | You'd think the England for English party could at least use English English properly. |
| 19:50.12 | Monet | UKIP - We're all angry racists, who cares? |
| 19:52.38 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.87.185) |
| 19:54.06 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@134.117.249.97) |
| 20:03.39 | Technobliterator | UKIP aren;t the problem, Britain First are |
| 20:04.16 | Wormy_STO | Erm... My laptop's screen has goneieways |
| 20:04.51 | Wormy_STO | I'm confused either way I turn the screem, either with the cursor or keyboard |
| 20:06.30 | Tek0516 | ieways? |
| 20:06.50 | Wormy_STO | sideways |
| 20:07.22 | Tek0516 | There's a shortcut that rotates your screen... |
| 20:07.47 | Tek0516 | Try Ctrl+alt+up? |
| 20:08.11 | Wormy_STO | Ah, that worked |
| 20:08.35 | Tek0516 | Ctrl+alt+arrows makes it turn any direction |
| 20:09.24 | Wormy_STO | The laptop nearly slipped out my hands, so I must have accidentely pressed those keys |
| 20:11.50 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@134.117.249.97) |
| 20:13.34 | Imperios | Wormy_STO: I imagine Poles are disliked in UK, aren't they? |
| 20:13.56 | Hachiman | I like them hur |
| 20:14.24 | Wormy_STO | Imperios: Either loved or hated |
| 20:14.55 | Wormy_STO | The Polish in my view are generally very hard workers and have integrated well with communities |
| 20:15.50 | Imperios | Poland stronk |
| 20:15.51 | Wormy_STO | But central and eastern Europeans tend to get a lot of flak from racist types |
| 20:16.05 | Wormy_STO | Especially Romanians |
| 20:16.12 | Imperios | Hachiman: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5r4qoQ8FsV-YVpncEY0dU43LU0/view?usp=sharing So I found these drawings in my paper stash |
| 20:16.48 | Imperios | I think these were supposed to be unaligned human rulers |
| 20:17.36 | Hachiman | The Aos'maran queen is pretty good |
| 20:17.41 | TekDroid | Wormy: What qualifies as east and central? Germany and east of it? |
| 20:17.49 | Hachiman | Caollain, right? |
| 20:18.13 | Imperios | Ya |
| 20:18.18 | Imperios | After that deer girl hur |
| 20:18.26 | Hachiman | Oh right hur |
| 20:19.31 | Wormy_STO | Further E\st than Germany. Germany are considered rivals |
| 20:20.46 | Imperios | This reminds me |
| 20:20.54 | Wormy_STO | http://imgur.com/gallery/0IIeM |
| 20:21.05 | TekDroid | Wormy: So... Basically the extent of communist Europe? |
| 20:21.16 | Imperios | I considered changing Alhassal's full name, but I am not sure what would I call it |
| 20:21.29 | Imperios | Kingdom? High Kingdom? Empire? |
| 20:21.59 | Hachiman | What is the current name? |
| 20:22.29 | Imperios | Alhassal-ten-Fajim |
| 20:22.31 | Imperios | Your idea hur |
| 20:22.34 | Hachiman | hur |
| 20:22.52 | Hachiman | I like the sound of High Kingdom |
| 20:22.56 | Imperios | Doesn't work anyway now, Alhassal is now much more Persian/Indian-inspired |
| 20:23.02 | Imperios | So yeah |
| 20:23.10 | Imperios | High Kingdom of Alhassal, can work |
| 20:23.15 | Hachiman | Now gimme a name for Imperial Mannazia hur |
| 20:25.11 | Imperios | Grand Principality of Konigruhmstadt and Eastern Mannazia |
| 20:25.36 | Wormy_STO | TekDroid: Yes, but I think the racism has deeper roots, the fear of gypsies |
| 20:25.42 | Hachiman | Is Konigruhmstadt a good name for the Mannazian capital? |
| 20:26.08 | Imperios | A bit too long, I can come up with something shorter |
| 20:26.12 | Hachiman | Sure |
| 20:26.20 | Wormy_STO | Romanians are portrayed as "theiving" just as hyspsies were portrayed as |
| 20:26.20 | Hachiman | Basically needs to sound regal and European hur |
| 20:28.25 | drom | I am really convienced to do some maths with all the production ratios. |
| 20:29.47 | Imperios | "Heldenberg"? |
| 20:30.00 | Imperios | Hero Mountain/City, fits really |
| 20:30.40 | Imperios | fuk |
| 20:31.37 | *** topic/#sporewiki by Technobliterator -> SporeWiki! http://spore.wikia.com || Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23sporewiki/ || Collaborative Universes: Sci-Fi http://tinyurl.com/3ddvp7q Fantasy http://tinyurl.com/p9qau7l || Roleplay subchannels: #sporewiki-rp1 and #sporewiki-rp2 || Titanpad: https://titanpad.com/ |
| 20:34.22 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5187c08e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.135.192.142) |
| 20:36.03 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~imperios@95.140.92.37) |
| 20:39.06 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5187c08e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.135.192.142) |
| 20:42.08 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Heldenberg |
| 20:42.28 | ImpyDroid | Wait |
| 20:42.35 | ImpyDroid | That's an actual city in Austria |
| 20:43.41 | Monet | drom: How do you mean |
| 20:44.25 | drom | Create a formula for the Andasium production rate per day for NS. Using data collected from the 13 available producents. |
| 20:46.14 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5187c08e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.135.192.142) |
| 20:46.24 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (18deeda2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.222.237.162) |
| 20:46.31 | drom | Since most of the producents have only population data, I might have to base it on population. Which is unothrodox. |
| 20:46.49 | DrodoEmpire | Hey everyone |
| 20:48.08 | Xho | OluapPlayer: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429735115 |
| 20:48.12 | Monet | drom: Base it on the data fro mthe producents |
| 20:48.47 | drom | Monet: I was looking for empire size in Star Systems/Colonies. But there wasn't so much of help |
| 20:49.12 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Screw it, let's use Gothic |
| 20:49.16 | Xho | So I'm watching Kuga's broadcast on Gmod |
| 20:49.20 | ImpyDroid | Swartsbaurg |
| 20:49.27 | ImpyDroid | There |
| 20:49.38 | Xho | It's taken him 9 minutes to load a map |
| 20:50.02 | Monet | drom: I've sort of gone off the idea myself because of the way the Imperium is spread out |
| 20:50.22 | ImpyDroid | Or Rauthsberg |
| 20:51.16 | ImpyDroid | Actually what is Mannazia's main colour? Red? |
| 20:51.34 | drom | Xho: It takes me more than 5+ mins to load Gmod, save for another 10+ mins for the Gmod to validate my addons plus 2 mins when trying to join a server. Plus 6-8 mins when joining a server for the first time in a while. |
| 20:51.41 | Xho | Dear god |
| 20:52.00 | Xho | Takes me about 20 seconds to load Gmod and another 5 to validate it |
| 20:52.11 | drom | SSD masterrace. |
| 20:52.17 | Xho | hih |
| 20:52.23 | Xho | As for joining a server I dunno |
| 20:52.23 | drom | But I'm stuck on a HDD. So. |
| 20:52.29 | Xho | I don't play Gmod multiplayer |
| 20:52.38 | TekDroid | Drom: Population doesn't work very well of you want to compare the nations on the list. Several of the top ones have a couple trillion at most while others measure in the quadrillions. |
| 20:52.53 | drom | 1TB SSDs are ridicolously expensive. |
| 20:54.30 | drom | TekDroid: That's why the formula is going to be hard to use if I try to be fair and optimizing with whatever is thrown in and what comes out of the formula. |
| 20:55.55 | Xho | My computer was something like £1,400 when I got it |
| 20:55.58 | *** join/#sporewiki Aeo (ad1367c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.19.103.199) |
| 20:57.28 | TekDroid | You could try and create one using an average amount per area, then factoring extraction and empire expansion rate |
| 20:57.38 | ImpyDroid | Ræst Beornas is another possibility |
| 20:58.54 | drom | Mine costed me ~930 |
| 21:03.20 | drom | But it has been a while since I bought it |
| 21:08.37 | drom | I'm going to assume that the ratio = (colonies*productivity)/tier *availblity factor |
| 21:10.20 | Xho | https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/17620_10155533218545061_6375728284863634438_n.jpg?oh=d087273b5a780f8dd215d63ef5b82549&oe=5597D4CB |
| 21:10.40 | Monet | You'll have to ask Charles Murray but there are factors besides number of colonies |
| 21:10.50 | OluapPlayer | dat face |
| 21:11.29 | Monet | older empires with more static borders tend ot have less anasite available to them. while expansionist empires potentially ahve plenty to work with |
| 21:11.57 | Monet | There's also the consideration of whether an empire focuses on mining, synthesising or refining. |
| 21:12.17 | drom | Well. It's a generalized formula. |
| 21:13.33 | drom | Otherwise the formula'd have least 60 unique factors. |
| 21:14.19 | drom | Algebra bitch |
| 21:15.52 | drom | Anyway. Let's soak this away with a puppy http://i.imgur.com/fOWjKW7.jpg |
| 21:16.04 | Monet | awww |
| 21:16.48 | Hachiman | ImpyDroid: Rauthsberg sounds good, as for main colour, I am imagining a mix between red and dark greyish |
| 21:17.25 | ImpyDroid | Rauthberg probably sounds easier to pronounce |
| 21:18.43 | TekDroid | Drom: I suggested trying to find a way to integrate a "production factor", basically a curve representing production per area per time. like a peak oil graph. |
| 21:19.55 | Hachiman | So pronounced "wrath-berg", "roth-berg", or "ralph-berg"? |
| 21:20.22 | TekDroid | Drom: *pulls out pencil and paper and starts writing* |
| 21:22.58 | Monet | As hyped as I am for Episode VII, I can't shake the feeling this bad guy we're seeing is channeling Revan with that outfit. |
| 21:23.12 | drom | TekDroid: Pay attention to the ly^3 volume per occupied stars with border influence, don't forget the radius, political influence factor, population, netto productivity, average output per star minus the overlapping volumne. Then add capitalism factor, number of greedy people and divide it with total population... blah blah blah blah... |
| 21:23.45 | drom | and then divide it with "I-just-don't-know-but-we-need-this-one"-factor |
| 21:24.15 | TekDroid | O.o |
| 21:25.21 | Monet | "Son, move slowly and put dow nthe math" |
| 21:27.18 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Rah-ooth-berg |
| 21:27.33 | Hachiman | rite |
| 21:28.23 | Hachiman | Grand Principality of Rauthberg and Eastern Mannazia |
| 21:29.06 | drom | One of our magazines is genius. |
| 21:29.11 | Hachiman | The proto-Mannazians were called Teutoge Hartoges or something like that if I remember |
| 21:29.18 | Hachiman | Something relating to the word "bear" |
| 21:29.28 | Hachiman | Teuto even |
| 21:29.31 | drom | "Tut's penis rediscovered" |
| 21:30.51 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Phone (a689f258@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.137.242.88) |
| 21:31.07 | TekDroid | I'm trying to figure put of there's a reasonablely simple way to take the Hubbert curve (function from peak oil) and modifying it to include the expansion of our empures |
| 21:31.08 | ImpyDroid | drom: You Swedes know your priorities |
| 21:31.10 | TekDroid | Hey Charles |
| 21:31.27 | Monet | Hello |
| 21:31.45 | drom | ImpyDroid: Welcome to world's most backwards country. |
| 21:32.11 | TekDroid | Charles_Phone: We were discussing how to create an equation to represent Andasium production. :P |
| 21:32.11 | drom | http://i.imgur.com/ZD9IZ3D.jpg The sign reads "VR-Bread" |
| 21:32.18 | Charles_Phone | Hey! |
| 21:32.44 | Charles_Phone | Oooooooh. I like where this is going! |
| 21:34.15 | Charles_Phone | Test |
| 21:34.20 | TekDroid | pass |
| 21:34.32 | drom | Charles_Phone: It has, however, railed off into an irrelevant 60+ factor equation with irreal algebra. |
| 21:34.51 | TekDroid | I'm working on trying to make a simple one. XD |
| 21:35.26 | Charles_Phone | Lol, it might be easier to plot it by region rather than country. |
| 21:35.45 | Monet | Distribution maps! |
| 21:36.11 | Charles_Phone | Lol, I was thinking of that. |
| 21:36.20 | *** join/#sporewiki GD12 (427591e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.117.145.231) |
| 21:36.27 | Hachiman | ImpyDroid: Do you remember what we called those two tribes that would become Mannazians and Alhassans? |
| 21:36.46 | Xho | Native Ackbars |
| 21:36.56 | TekDroid | For my attempt I'm doing an assumption of uniform distribution, and trying to see if there's a way to incorporate that peak oil function with respect to area. |
| 21:36.56 | Hachiman | Mannazian one had something relating to bear, Alhassan one had something relating to birds of prey |
| 21:37.08 | Charles_Phone | But for a Hunbert curve, it'll be easier to plot the resources of a region, because those don't expand. |
| 21:37.17 | Hachiman | I think it might have been PIE or something |
| 21:37.37 | Hachiman | thx 4 nuffin dumbass |
| 21:37.42 | OluapPlayer | Pie Men |
| 21:37.47 | Xho | Bear Birds |
| 21:38.08 | OluapPlayer | Bears with arms |
| 21:38.15 | GD12 | Whats a Humbert Curve |
| 21:38.16 | Hachiman | non |
| 21:38.30 | drom | Hubbert Curve |
| 21:38.36 | drom | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_curve |
| 21:38.40 | GD12 | o |
| 21:38.41 | TekDroid | GD12: Function used to represent Peak Oil |
| 21:38.43 | Hachiman | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Captain:War_Marshal_Tibiquay Also it appears External has conveniently disappeared to not discuss the issue of mentioning my fiction without permission |
| 21:38.48 | GD12 | Humbert Cuve is apparently a graduate algebra topic |
| 21:38.49 | Hachiman | Alongside using Descension energy |
| 21:39.01 | GD12 | *Riemannian Gomeetry |
| 21:39.16 | GD12 | is this for andasium? |
| 21:39.19 | drom | Bascially a kind of graph mathematics that shows which is the most efficient output ratio relative to input. |
| 21:39.21 | drom | Yep |
| 21:39.37 | GD12 | btw has anyone figured out if irradiated andasium has any cool properties? |
| 21:39.43 | Hachiman | "He invaded a Human colony and killed all humans on that colony before setting fire to the entire colony itself." Note: Tibiquay set an entire PLANET on fire |
| 21:40.20 | Monet | Hachiman: Maybe the colony was one teeny litte town and the only one on the entire planet? |
| 21:40.27 | Monet | little* |
| 21:40.33 | drom | Well. He foretold his issues with his parents. |
| 21:40.46 | Charles_Phone | GD: You shoot extra neutrons at it, it becomes highly unstable. |
| 21:41.00 | GD12 | yay |
| 21:41.12 | GD12 | makes a note to make irradiated andasite weaponry |
| 21:41.14 | drom | Ahahaha! KA-BOOOOM KAAAAA-BOOOOOOOOOOOOM |
| 21:41.32 | Hachiman | Also I like how Tibiquay apparently has Zazane ancestry and his ancestors were Descended despite not being Zazane |
| 21:41.42 | Hachiman | It makes my sides split |
| 21:42.19 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:42.38 | TekDroid | I'm supposed to be packing and instead I'm doing fictional math problems. XD |
| 21:42.45 | GD12 | kek |
| 21:42.51 | GD12 | Fiction Math |
| 21:42.52 | drom | I know ya TekDroid |
| 21:43.23 | Monet | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:43.32 | TekDroid | O.o |
| 21:43.36 | Hachiman | Born pissed |
| 21:43.43 | Monet | ..or the fact he was able to run into a forest not long after he came out his mother. |
| 21:43.46 | drom | I was also supposed to pack up my bag from the last stay over my parents' house. But it's however left untouched ever since sunday. |
| 21:43.59 | GD12 | wat |
| 21:44.33 | Monet | "When Tibiquay was born, he first witnessed the decaying corpses of his parents and then ran---clumsily---to a nearby forest. When he got there, a predator first came upon him, and he swiftly broke its neck, much to his amazement." - the article is very vague when it comes to establishing when this happens |
| 21:44.50 | Hachiman | He came out of an egg actually |
| 21:44.52 | drom | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:45.01 | GD12 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:45.21 | drom | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:45.25 | GD12 | srs abandoment issues |
| 21:45.32 | GD12 | call child protection services |
| 21:45.33 | GD12 | amber alert |
| 21:45.41 | Xho | Somehow he was born and had decaying parents |
| 21:45.46 | drom | problem doc? heeh |
| 21:45.52 | Xho | Santorakh - i can't even explain that logic |
| 21:46.02 | Hachiman | "When an Empire came and attacked the area, 40 soldiers came to take the egg which Tibiquay was in. His parents massacred a the entire squad of soldiers, and more came, and more came. The Elites killed every single one. Then, a super-soldier came and fought both elites. The Elites were both killed, but they slaughtered the super-soldier. Afterwards |
| 21:46.02 | Hachiman | , the egg was left to survive on its own." |
| 21:46.05 | Charles_Phone | Egg |
| 21:46.06 | Hachiman | He is the egg |
| 21:46.22 | TekDroid | Wait... he lived by a poisoned pond for years, what did he drink? O.o |
| 21:46.27 | GD12 | wait but wouldn't the egg be outside of the parent? |
| 21:46.33 | GD12 | the poison ofc |
| 21:46.52 | Hachiman | Yes apparently he drank the poison and did not die thus deciding to keep drinking it |
| 21:46.53 | Hachiman | Logic |
| 21:46.56 | Xho | No offence directly intended but |
| 21:47.00 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d016b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.22.185) |
| 21:47.07 | Xho | Permission to make this the Bad Starter Example |
| 21:47.08 | TekDroid | There is so much wrong with that page. |
| 21:47.18 | drom | GD12: Kiwis are an example of holding in their offspring |
| 21:47.26 | GD12 | i c |
| 21:47.37 | Xho | So much lack of logic that it's in the minuses |
| 21:47.50 | drom | Otherwise, they just lay them and keep a eye over them and keep them warm. |
| 21:48.06 | Hachiman | "When Tibiquay was 14, a group of Nathierm came to explore. He felt that they were invaders, and he attacked them. He tore the mouths off of one, and was promptly shot in the shoulder-twice. He regenerated and pounced on the firer, tearing him apart. The other Nathierm attempted to fight him, but he quickly killed them both. He then picked up the w |
| 21:48.06 | Hachiman | eapons they carried, and headed out of the forest. He finally found a tribe, who took him in. He trained with them in the arts of war for many years, and killed people who attacked his tribe, mostly because he found it fun and enjoyable." |
| 21:48.11 | Charles_Phone | He'll improve it as time goes on, give him a little slack. xD |
| 21:48.48 | drom | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:49.01 | Hachiman | Note that all of the murderous shit he does it not out of survival but because he finds it enjoyable and satisfying |
| 21:49.15 | Hachiman | And is somehow able to do this without any prior survival or military training |
| 21:49.22 | drom | That's normal, to my standards. |
| 21:49.31 | Hachiman | As a baby |
| 21:49.35 | GD12 | the poison water teaches all |
| 21:49.42 | GD12 | tbh though its a starter fiction |
| 21:49.44 | Hachiman | Actually no wait sorry |
| 21:49.45 | GD12 | some slack is in order |
| 21:49.46 | Hachiman | A young teen |
| 21:49.47 | Monet | Hachiman: apparently he was born descended. |
| 21:50.07 | Hachiman | Being born Descended does not give you super-awesome powers right off of the bat |
| 21:50.22 | Charles_Phone | Maybe we could stop picking on him? |
| 21:50.28 | Hachiman | Kezoreg was not able to suplex a WWE wrestler with his pinky when he was a newborn |
| 21:51.08 | drom | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:51.30 | Hachiman | "0/10 kill urself" |
| 21:51.31 | drom | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:51.43 | drom | genius |
| 21:51.56 | Hachiman | Oluap has already sent a message so I am currently waiting on that |
| 21:52.03 | Charles_Phone | I agree, maybe we should focus not on the negative aspects, but give him helpful comments so he can improve? |
| 21:52.16 | Monet | I agree. |
| 21:52.28 | Hachiman | "He was pitted in death matches with other Nathierm, and he slaughtered them all. He had to fire guns into targets to see what his accuracy was, and he hit the bullseye every time. No exceptions. When he was tested for his essence abilities, it was shown that he was a strong descended." |
| 21:52.30 | drom | Hands downs. |
| 21:52.41 | GD12 | Feedback on making it more logical and descriptive |
| 21:52.43 | Monet | The difference between a n00b and a newb is the latter is open to feedback. |
| 21:53.12 | Hachiman | I feel like I am reading a Marty Stu character page |
| 21:54.26 | GD12 | Doesn't mean it can't change |
| 21:55.50 | Monet | Hachiman: I remember when Kezoreg was ten he still had to concentrate very hard to teleport. |
| 21:55.56 | Charles_Phone | This is why people say our wiki is so hostile to outsiders. We drive off a lot of potentially good people this way. |
| 21:56.30 | Hachiman | >People say our wiki is so hostile to outsiders |
| 21:56.32 | Hachiman | What people |
| 21:56.33 | drom | Speaking of powerful characters. I've an interest to make one of my characters more powerful due to their age. |
| 21:57.02 | drom | I was used to be one of them, Hachiman. |
| 21:57.42 | Hachiman | Well External replied to Oluap |
| 21:57.54 | Hachiman | He said he would remove the mentions of Descension and Zazane entirely |
| 21:58.07 | Hachiman | Wiki 1, newbies 0 kek |
| 21:58.44 | Charles_Phone | *sigh* |
| 21:58.49 | Hachiman | But no I am sure he will learn in time |
| 21:59.09 | Hachiman | We were all stupid once |
| 21:59.41 | Monet | If no one made mistakes no one would learn anything |
| 21:59.44 | *** join/#sporewiki Externalizers (b8a66276@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.166.98.118) |
| 21:59.45 | drom | We have always been |
| 21:59.52 | Monet | Hello |
| 21:59.55 | drom | Hello |
| 21:59.58 | GD12 | hello |
| 22:00.04 | Hachiman | Hello |
| 22:00.11 | drom | ngh, We always have been* |
| 22:00.28 | Externalizers | Oops. I meant to have my name "Externalizers Externalizers Externalizer". Didn't go trhough. And hello. |
| 22:00.32 | Externalizers | *through |
| 22:00.50 | Monet | WOuld have been too long |
| 22:01.12 | TekDroid | Also it has spaces |
| 22:01.51 | Externalizers | Dangit. |
| 22:02.00 | Externalizers | It would've been the best name ever. |
| 22:02.17 | drom | Makes sense to me to be honest. |
| 22:04.44 | *** join/#sporewiki Externalizer (b8a66276@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.166.98.118) |
| 22:06.11 | Externalizer | I somehow disconnected before |
| 22:14.17 | *** join/#sporewiki Guest25702 (~TekDroid@134.117.249.97) |
| 22:14.35 | drom | Fallacy is an interesting area of subject |
| 22:14.52 | Externalizer | Let's start some conversation. "How was your day today?" |
| 22:14.59 | drom | There are so many ways to make an argurment invaild or stupidly unresonable. |
| 22:16.24 | Externalizer | Like being a simple idiot? |
| 22:16.41 | Externalizer | Using child-like or Call of Duty kid speech? |
| 22:18.17 | drom | None of these lines. http://pzxc.com/f/posts/37/fallacies.png |
| 22:20.01 | *** join/#sporewiki Aeo (ad1367c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.19.103.199) |
| 22:21.41 | drom | This is an example of a fallacy http://assets.amuniversal.com/5039fa90af230132cfe8005056a9545d |
| 22:21.41 | Hachiman | Hai Aeo |
| 22:21.42 | Aeo | Hi |
| 22:22.47 | drom | And then another fallacy example: http://assets.amuniversal.com/4d1ee070af230132cfe8005056a9545d |
| 22:23.35 | Externalizer | olol |
| 22:26.28 | Externalizer | ... |
| 22:26.29 | Externalizer | Alright |
| 22:26.37 | Externalizer | HOW WAS YOUR DAY TODAY? |
| 22:27.09 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@134.117.249.97) |
| 22:29.12 | drom | Charles_Murray Monet Tek0516: Sounds relevant to what we talked about a while ago: http://assets.amuniversal.com/60e96fb0a42b0132cbc1005056a9545d |
| 22:31.20 | Monet | Which conversation again? |
| 22:32.11 | drom | The Andasium productivity and economics effect |
| 22:34.02 | Charles_Murray | Ha! |
| 22:34.08 | Externalizer | Yeah, is Andasium official now? |
| 22:34.10 | Charles_Murray | drom: I replied to your earlier messages. |
| 22:34.21 | drom | Hachiman: http://assets.amuniversal.com/8021b8308da40132c3b5005056a9545d |
| 22:34.25 | Charles_Murray | For people who want to use it, yeah. |
| 22:35.01 | Hachiman | olol |
| 22:35.34 | Externalizer | lolollololololololo |
| 22:37.35 | Hachiman | https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11149356_10153012424254998_2907525726298654448_n.png?oh=d59f59ee6811904ccb6f56f50c0b93da&oe=5597CE47&__gda__=1436507729_e017a3494a58e83023a6918d950569ed |
| 22:38.46 | drom | I noticed Charles_Murray |
| 22:39.02 | drom | But I was more focued on the netto output. |
| 22:39.11 | drom | per day |
| 22:39.16 | Charles_Murray | Of a single nation? |
| 22:39.20 | Externalizer | Hachi: Ain't it? |
| 22:39.26 | Tek0516 | drom: Pretty sure I've nerd sniped myself thinking about this. XD |
| 22:39.55 | drom | Charles_Murray: Yep |
| 22:40.24 | drom | Constructing a formula using data from other nations' netto outputs and data. |
| 22:41.05 | drom | So it's optimized as it shares similar rates compared to everything else. |
| 22:41.29 | Charles_Murray | Yeah, everything I listed increases the net production of a single nation. Prices on the Gigaquadrant and domestic market affect the willingness of producers to supply a good. |
| 22:41.52 | Charles_Murray | So if the price goes up, producers will be more willing to supply andasium because more profits. |
| 22:43.08 | Charles_Murray | You can artificially increase production domestically by subsidizing production in one form or another, though that'll cost the government and consumers quite a bit. |
| 22:43.51 | drom | Hence the average productivity will increase. |
| 22:44.56 | Charles_Murray | And decrease the "universal" price. |
| 22:45.25 | drom | Making the output toll rise, provided that the extraction doesn't exscend the maximal average extraction per day. Else it will be depleted quickly or running at an inefficient rate. |
| 22:45.44 | Externalizer | http://pzxc.com/f/posts/37/fallacies.png "Guilt by Association"--"Oh, you want us to relax the anti-terrorism laws just like the terrorists want us to do? Are you saying you support terrorism?" |
| 22:45.48 | Externalizer | ..>Seriously |
| 22:48.03 | Tek0516 | Those are all exaggerated examples. :P |
| 22:48.12 | Tek0516 | Though all very real |
| 22:48.24 | drom | It makes it easier to understand the context. |
| 22:50.01 | drom | We have seen worse fallacy arguments and reasoning. |
| 22:50.10 | drom | Oh it's late. |
| 22:52.00 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@134.117.249.97) |
| 23:00.17 | Tek0516 | Okay, I think I may have a reasonably nice expression. XD |
| 23:00.39 | Tek0516 | Almost |
| 23:00.54 | *** join/#sporewiki Externalizer (b8a66276@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.166.98.118) |
| 23:02.08 | Externalizer | Erm...I was reading "Mass Armageddon" on Tantummodo Mortem, and Santorakh, a Fiction character, mentioned Caligaduro Provectus, a Fantasy character. Whatdahel? |
| 23:02.23 | Hachiman | Santorakh does that |
| 23:02.43 | Monet | Wait til lyou see the finale. |
| 23:02.52 | Externalizer | FRIGGIN SANTORAKJ |
| 23:02.55 | Externalizer | SANTORAKH |
| 23:03.05 | Externalizer | YOU'RE MAKING MY HEAD BLOW UP LIKE A BALLOON. |
| 23:03.35 | Tek0516 | The universe is Xhodocto dreams or something they're allowed to be meta. |
| 23:03.44 | Tek0516 | or whatever its called |
| 23:03.49 | Charles_Murray | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction%3A2802_GITO_Financial_Crash |
| 23:04.50 | Externalizer | I wonder...if Angazhar and Caligaduro fought, who would win? |
| 23:05.12 | Hachiman | Xhodocto in likelihood |
| 23:05.14 | Externalizer | And obviously, Koldenwelt must exist in the First Gigaquadrant then. |
| 23:05.32 | Hachiman | Koldenwelt is entirely separate from the universe that the First Gigaquadrant exists within |
| 23:05.42 | Tek0516 | Charles_Murray: But yeah, I think I'm a few minutes away from a relatively nice expression for production. XD |
| 23:05.50 | Hachiman | Xhodocto just have an omniversal awareness on the scale of the entirety of reality |
| 23:06.18 | Monet | Charles_Murray: Nice use of boom and bust. |
| 23:06.39 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@24.114.82.93) |
| 23:06.40 | Externalizer | My brain hurts...so...the Xhodocto can attack Koldenwelt if they wanted to> |
| 23:06.47 | Externalizer | But they can't. |
| 23:06.57 | Tek0516 | Don't question it |
| 23:07.01 | Hachiman | They can do a lot of things |
| 23:07.07 | Hachiman | They just choose not to do a lot of things |
| 23:07.49 | Hachiman | There is more to the Xhodocto than just simply destructuion |
| 23:07.54 | Externalizer | The power they have... |
| 23:07.54 | Hachiman | destruction even |
| 23:08.37 | Hachiman | They are beyond-transapient at this current point in time and their thought processes and motivations are enigmatic to the entirety of the First Gigaquadrant |
| 23:10.23 | Monet | Charles_Murray: "The gilo sunk to 0.01% of its original value within days" I now have an image of Frenchmen buying groceries with wheelbarows full of gilos. |
| 23:10.50 | Charles_Murray | Well, putting aside that Frenchmen don't buy groceries. xD |
| 23:11.11 | Hachiman | Boring life they must lead if they do not eat food |
| 23:11.28 | Monet | Real Frenchmen or Space Frenchmen? |
| 23:11.36 | Charles_Murray | Space Frenchmen |
| 23:11.49 | Externalizer | Mirus, borealis, milky way, Andromeda, or any other types? |
| 23:11.54 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (52131c03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.19.28.3) |
| 23:11.57 | Tek0516 | Hello |
| 23:12.03 | Monet | Hello |
| 23:12.05 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 23:12.11 | Hachiman | Hai Wormy |
| 23:12.16 | Monet | Okay new image |
| 23:12.44 | Monet | Frenchman with gilo wheelbarrow at a vending machine where everything is priced at thousands of gilo. |
| 23:12.57 | Monet | And putting coins in one at a time |
| 23:13.11 | Charles_Murray | lol |
| 23:14.03 | Hachiman | I was about to make a "What does France and Greece have in common" joke |
| 23:14.14 | Wormy_ | I'm a Pangolin according to Google. |
| 23:14.37 | Monet | Except Space France wasn't living off benefits. |
| 23:14.48 | Hachiman | Wormy_: Pangolins are cute though so consider yourself lucky |
| 23:15.55 | Wormy_ | I'll give them that |
| 23:15.59 | Monet | France's situation seems closer to society in 1929 than 2011. |
| 23:16.13 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (18deeda2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.222.237.162) |
| 23:18.11 | Tek0516 | Hello |
| 23:23.57 | *** join/#sporewiki EXTERNALIZERISCO (b8a66276@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.166.98.118) |
| 23:24.35 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | ALRIGHT, even though the Fantasy Koldenwelt is completely separate, Vargash is in Mass Armageddon. |
| 23:24.46 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | And |
| 23:24.51 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | Is fighting the characters |
| 23:24.56 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | Of the fictionverse |
| 23:25.06 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | If I die of a stroke, I blame it on your guys. |
| 23:25.16 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@134.117.249.97) |
| 23:25.37 | Hachiman | hur |
| 23:26.09 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | Next to Atrocius, could be seen the Void Guardian, albeit in a smaller, sizeable form. With him he held a sword, and behind him, a tumult of other Void Guardians. Out of the ground, a mountain of teeth and eyes rose as well as a huge number of tentacles. The leading Void Guardianroared, where the others charged towards them at an alarming speed. Vargash' - 'Madness spreads. Santorakh - Of course it spreads! I have the d |
| 23:27.13 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | I am questioning my understanding of the Fictionverse even moreso than I usually do. |
| 23:27.28 | TekDroid | https://i.imgur.com/BfYUCnuh.jpg Charles_Murray: Too lazy to type it up so this is what I've got for my production function so far. |
| 23:27.35 | Hachiman | Do not think too much into it |
| 23:27.52 | TekDroid | Hopefully it's readable. XD |
| 23:28.07 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | I can't stop thinking about it.... |
| 23:28.21 | DrodoEmpire | Tek: Its okay, my handwriting is utterly *atrocious*. XD |
| 23:28.25 | Hachiman | The characters are drawn from a great number of timelines and alternate universes |
| 23:28.38 | TekDroid | That was written very slowly and carefully. XD |
| 23:28.46 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | ... |
| 23:28.51 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | *Dies of a stroke* |
| 23:28.54 | DrodoEmpire | Its some inbred mix of cursive, printing... fuckin'... |
| 23:28.55 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | *Brain pops* |
| 23:28.58 | DrodoEmpire | Dunno what it is. XD |
| 23:29.02 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | *Blood spatters the walls*( |
| 23:29.08 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah mine looks similar when typed slowly. |
| 23:29.27 | Hachiman | I mean Hachiman is there as an Essential demigod when in the main timeline he is nowhere near that powerful yet |
| 23:30.30 | Hachiman | I mean by the 2800s he has become an effective demigod but still nowhere near as powerful as he is depicted there |
| 23:30.30 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | And... |
| 23:30.35 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | Theres Caligaduro |
| 23:30.37 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | FUk |
| 23:30.41 | TekDroid | I hope I did my function right though. It has a few unrealistic assumptions going backwards but I needed it to make it work. XD |
| 23:30.58 | DrodoEmpire | I should pick up that EUIV mod. |
| 23:31.00 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 23:31.12 | DrodoEmpire | Eh I'll get the chance to later. Got a lot to do right now |
| 23:32.04 | TekDroid | pokes Charles_Murray |
| 23:32.40 | *** join/#sporewiki Jepardi (b24b970e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.75.151.14) |
| 23:32.41 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 23:32.44 | TekDroid | Hello |
| 23:32.54 | Charles_Murray | What does it do, exactly? xD |
| 23:34.21 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | It did seem that Santorakh killed all the Fantasy god-beings in three taps of a stick. |
| 23:34.24 | Charles_Murray | Hm. If we have enough people, we could scrounge together a game of something. EUIV? Vicky II? A total war game? Wargame? |
| 23:34.43 | TekDroid | It's a function for an empire's andasium production with respect to time. :P |
| 23:34.45 | DrodoEmpire | Ehh no. |
| 23:34.46 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 23:34.56 | Charles_Murray | No? |
| 23:34.59 | DrodoEmpire | Don't want to right now. |
| 23:35.02 | DrodoEmpire | At least for me. |
| 23:35.13 | Charles_Murray | Tek said he'd be able to after laundry. Anyone else? |
| 23:35.20 | DrodoEmpire | Sounded like I represented everyone there, sorry. >.< |
| 23:35.33 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway what I mean is I don't feel like that. |
| 23:35.34 | Charles_Murray | Comrade_Vinny Moet |
| 23:35.37 | Charles_Murray | Monet |
| 23:35.43 | Charles_Murray | I know how to spell your name, I swear. |
| 23:35.55 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | TANTUMMODO MORTEM HURTS MY REALITY AND ITS PERCEPTION |
| 23:35.58 | Monet | Lol |
| 23:36.23 | *** join/#sporewiki GD12 (427591e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.117.145.231) |
| 23:36.41 | Monet | Charled_Murray: I have some free time.but I am suddenly at a loss as to what lol |
| 23:37.17 | Charles_Murray | GD12 : Want to join us for a game of something? |
| 23:37.18 | Monet | Though my mind is leaning towards something calm as I have only just finished some university work. |
| 23:37.21 | GD12 | sure |
| 23:37.39 | Charles_Murray | Got it. Hm. Out of the games I just listed, what do you have? |
| 23:38.04 | Monet | EUIV and Total War |
| 23:38.05 | GD12 | what kind of game? |
| 23:38.09 | GD12 | o |
| 23:38.13 | DrodoEmpire | Maybe on the weekend I can play a multiplayer game of EUIV; Play as Ming so we can all bet on how quickly I'll explode into itty-bitty nations. |
| 23:38.16 | GD12 | well can't play that right now lol |
| 23:38.29 | DrodoEmpire | :p |
| 23:38.31 | Charles_Murray | Can't play EUIV? |
| 23:39.23 | GD12 | its a school day |
| 23:39.26 | GD12 | can only IRC :( |
| 23:39.38 | GD12 | trying to limit myself from going full EU IV |
| 23:41.59 | Charles_Murray | I have all of the DLC's for EUIV, so we could play custom nations :P |
| 23:42.08 | Charles_Murray | Let me know when you guys want me to host the game. |
| 23:42.25 | DrodoEmpire | Are mods able to be used in an MP game? |
| 23:43.00 | DrodoEmpire | I'm asking as I'm gonna try and make a sort-of zombie apocalypse mod soon. Similar to the "Apocalypse 1836" mod for VicII |
| 23:43.14 | DrodoEmpire | Would be pretty fun to play that in MP, work together to survive. XD |
| 23:43.19 | Charles_Murray | Yeah, I think so, everyone just needs to be running it. |
| 23:43.22 | DrodoEmpire | Ah |
| 23:44.40 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | Someone copied Zargoth from Spore |
| 23:44.45 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | http://dsff.wikia.com/wiki/Zargoth,_the_Time_Lord |
| 23:46.02 | Hachiman | Seen that ages agi |
| 23:46.04 | Hachiman | ago even |
| 23:47.41 | Wormy_ | http://dsff.wikia.com/wiki/Zargoth,_the_Time_Lord#WikiaArticleComments |
| 23:47.55 | Wormy_ | I have already ranted |
| 23:48.17 | TekDroid | Wait... I screwed up my function. >.> |
| 23:50.01 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | I thought Tech was a boy. |
| 23:50.44 | Wormy_ | She was a boy once. |
| 23:51.08 | Wormy_ | Techno was a name used by her brother I think. |
| 23:51.10 | Hachiman | No, no she was never a boy |
| 23:51.14 | Hachiman | Oh well |
| 23:51.18 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | And now he/she is a girl? |
| 23:51.20 | Hachiman | Yeah there was that |
| 23:51.22 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | But was a boy? |
| 23:51.26 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | And is girl? |
| 23:51.28 | Hachiman | Technobliterator is an inherited account |
| 23:51.30 | EXTERNALIZERISCO | *is a |
| 23:51.43 | Hachiman | The first Technobliterator was the current (second) Technobliterator's brother |
| 23:52.30 | Wormy_ | Of course the Techno we know really is the current inheritor |
| 23:52.50 | Wormy_ | The first one was only AROUND A FEW DAYS i THINK |
| 23:52.54 | Wormy_ | Sorry caps |
| 23:56.23 | DrodoEmpire | test |
