| 00:05.27 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapPlayer (bd0e83cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.14.131.207) |
| 00:05.27 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapPlayer] by ChanServ |
| 00:06.23 | Knight_Alien | This is Destiny at it's purest. http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/837/717/ec3.jpg |
| 00:06.52 | The_Randomness | lol |
| 00:09.35 | Knight_Alien | Little does Bungie realize, a good game sells more since it is bought even years after it is made. |
| 00:10.05 | Knight_Alien | But overhyped Mlg 1v1 me games of pwng sell for like a month. |
| 00:17.19 | Monet | You know you've fuked up when Angry Joe slips into Spanish inflections. |
| 00:17.45 | TekDroid | O.o |
| 00:18.39 | Knight_Alien | Dat Joe was in da Spanish Inquisition. He soon went to texas and followed their moto; Shootin deer and drinkin beer. |
| 00:31.07 | Cyrannian | bai |
| 00:51.53 | PandaMechanicus | oh god Too Human |
| 00:51.56 | PandaMechanicus | that game was awful |
| 01:07.41 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/70V7yKc |
| 01:09.47 | DrodoEmpire | "Apparently this wasp is the size of a goose so you're fucked." |
| 01:11.33 | TekDroid | I love how I'm learning more relevant stuff in the 2-3 hours a week of this club than all my classes this term. XD |
| 01:12.43 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 01:13.41 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/8yULscM |
| 01:14.11 | Wormy_ | and all that debt |
| 01:14.14 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@24.114.93.151) |
| 01:14.23 | DrodoEmpire | "Move my minions! MOVE!" |
| 01:15.39 | Tek0516 | My homework is to program an altimeter. :o |
| 01:19.28 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/pvXSk |
| 01:21.32 | *** join/#sporewiki OfficerJackal (~OfficerJa@2601:3:8681:3d8:826:958d:51c0:1b2c) |
| 01:21.41 | OfficerJackal | Hello. |
| 01:22.00 | Wormy_ | Tek0516's room after first year http://imgur.com/gallery/KeBdqc8 |
| 01:23.04 | Tek0516 | Hello OfficerJackal |
| 01:24.54 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/iZV3d |
| 01:31.30 | DrodoEmpire | http://i.imgur.com/u6JYK5n.jpg |
| 01:31.39 | DrodoEmpire | Too young to own a car. |
| 01:31.41 | DrodoEmpire | :P |
| 01:32.05 | DrodoEmpire | Let alone a Lamborghini, for Christ's sake. |
| 01:35.22 | Wormy_ | lol |
| 01:39.10 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:53.12 | AnonyTest | I wonder if he whined that his parents got him a car for his fifteenth Birthday. |
| 01:58.27 | Wormy_ | Deary me |
| 01:59.41 | Wormy_ | I don';t know what the laws are in his country but he could probably drive it off-road and get it muddy lol |
| 02:00.02 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah peo- |
| 02:00.04 | DrodoEmpire | 3: |
| 02:00.40 | DrodoEmpire | Hey AnonyTest, I don't recognize your name. New to the wiki? Alternate name? |
| 02:03.50 | AnonyTest | Came up yesterday. |
| 02:03.56 | DrodoEmpire | Ah, nice. |
| 02:03.57 | AnonyTest | I've lurked for a while. |
| 02:04.00 | DrodoEmpire | Welcome to the wiki! |
| 02:04.08 | AnonyTest | Thank you. |
| 02:04.42 | DrodoEmpire | Things tend to get quiet at this hour. :P |
| 02:07.56 | AnonyTest | What do you think the optimal number of legs is? |
| 02:08.18 | DrodoEmpire | Pardon? |
| 02:08.51 | AnonyTest | The optimal number of legs for a space faring species, practically speaking. |
| 02:08.59 | DrodoEmpire | Oh, right. |
| 02:09.47 | DrodoEmpire | There is no optimal number. :P Every species is different, and unless it has been spacefaring for millions or billions of years, it would evolve to be optimised for the task. |
| 02:09.54 | DrodoEmpire | *it would not |
| 02:10.20 | DrodoEmpire | Keep in mind that even modern humans aren't hardwired or even very well optimised to live in agrarian societies, despite how efficient they are |
| 02:11.04 | DrodoEmpire | Basically, its up to you. What type of planet are they from? That would determine body shape |
| 02:11.20 | DrodoEmpire | What part of the ecosystem they filled, etc. |
| 02:11.30 | DrodoEmpire | Before they were spacefaring |
| 02:11.39 | AnonyTest | Good answer. |
| 02:12.03 | DrodoEmpire | Thanks..? :P Where you asking as a question, or to quiz me? |
| 02:12.13 | DrodoEmpire | I don't mean to be rude, but |
| 02:12.50 | AnonyTest | I was wondering what your opinion was and if you knew of any advantages X number of legs had that I wasn't aware of. |
| 02:12.52 | AnonyTest | Is all. |
| 02:13.08 | DrodoEmpire | Ah |
| 02:22.04 | DrodoEmpire | test |
| 02:28.38 | OfficerJackal | DrodoEmpire: Belated loud and clear! :D |
| 02:46.01 | *** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (99128801@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.18.136.1) |
| 03:48.37 | PandaMechanicus | AnonyTest: less for endurance, more for speed |
| 03:49.35 | PandaMechanicus | there is also a proportional gain in grip and stability as the number of legs increases |
| 03:58.54 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@ru3.housing.carleton.ca) |
| 04:02.32 | AnonyTest | Test. |
| 04:03.06 | AnonyTest | I've always been a fan of hexapedal, since it's the lowest number of legs that can provide proper stability while in movement. |
| 04:03.37 | PandaMechanicus | humanity would disagree with you there |
| 04:03.47 | PandaMechanicus | slugs would too |
| 04:03.49 | PandaMechanicus | :P |
| 04:04.05 | AnonyTest | Bipedal creatures have to actively balance, though. |
| 04:04.08 | AnonyTest | Slugs don't have legs. |
| 04:04.54 | AnonyTest | If you're hexapedal then you have three legs on the ground when you're walking. |
| 04:05.00 | AnonyTest | The front left leg, back left leg, and middle right leg. |
| 04:05.02 | AnonyTest | And vice versa. |
| 04:05.13 | AnonyTest | So you're positioning yourself on a triangle, which is stable in three dimensions. |
| 04:05.24 | AnonyTest | Meaning you don't have to exert much energy keeping your balance, just adjust your legs a bit. |
| 04:54.12 | TekDroid | ~tesr |
| 04:54.12 | infobot | from memory, tesr is Things everyone should read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://www.reciprocality.org/Reciprocality/r0/ Ask me about guidelines. |
| 05:33.29 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d016b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.22.185) |
| 07:11.04 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~DanzaDelM@195.19.236.6) |
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| 09:00.16 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 09:00.23 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 09:11.34 | *** join/#sporewiki AdmiralPanda (79de2923@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.222.41.35) |
| 09:14.20 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 09:28.09 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid2 (~DanzaDelM@195.19.236.3) |
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| 11:50.21 | *** join/#sporewiki odell (~dpessimis@unaffiliated/drom) |
| 12:41.10 | odell | Imagine wahhabism combined with Jevoah's Witnesses. |
| 12:42.23 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (52131c03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.19.28.3) |
| 12:42.45 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 12:43.40 | odell | Hai |
| 12:44.02 | odell | I said this merely a minute ago. Imagine wahhabism combined with Jevoah's Witnesses. |
| 12:48.28 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapWorker (b19cdc7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.156.220.126) |
| 12:48.30 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapWorker] by ChanServ |
| 12:48.43 | Wormy_ | Ebola genome, meme replicated http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/KM233090.1 |
| 12:48.46 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 12:50.00 | OluapWorker | Hi |
| 12:51.05 | odell | Wormy_: Interesting. |
| 12:51.18 | odell | Hi |
| 12:51.57 | Wormy_ | Even the smallpox genome can be easily downloaded by anyone. |
| 12:53.26 | Wormy_ | Even though nearly all the viral material is gone, there is something quite abstract and spooky how the virus could easily be ressurected merely because its information has been stored into a new medium |
| 12:57.26 | odell | There's a special 3D-writer like machine for chemistry. Where it can automatically create rare medicinal molecules from scratch. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a14528/the-chemistry-3d-printer-can-craft-rare-medicinal-molecules-from-scratch/ |
| 12:57.57 | odell | Imagine a DNA-printer. |
| 13:00.38 | Wormy_ | TheyI think they are close to existing |
| 13:06.02 | odell | we are close to the age where we can birth out cheese monsters out of bacteria cultures. |
| 13:06.39 | odell | Unrealistic way to say, but you get the point. |
| 13:51.52 | odell | Andromeda has got a plenty of unfinished pages I see. |
| 13:58.46 | *** join/#sporewiki Jepardi (b24b970e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.75.151.14) |
| 13:58.47 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 14:02.10 | odell | Hey |
| 14:04.30 | odell | Ehehe. I guess that I can imply that my galaxy is actually more far than it's in real-life. |
| 14:05.13 | odell | Because what we at it, is the trace lighting that've traveled for teens of millions of light years. |
| 14:05.42 | Comrade_Vinny | Hey! |
| 14:05.55 | odell | It can manage to drift away with another 20 Mly before the emitted light reaches us. |
| 14:52.47 | *** join/#sporewiki Imperios (~Imperios@95.140.92.52) |
| 14:53.41 | Imperios | Hi |
| 15:30.06 | *** join/#sporewiki OfficerJackal (~OfficerJa@2601:3:8681:3d8:c006:1edf:6dd0:7046) |
| 15:45.57 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (52131c03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.19.28.3) |
| 15:53.56 | Imperios | TekDroid: http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1426261760468.png Show this to Angrybirds when he comes |
| 16:23.35 | Imperios | God, /pol/ is hilarious |
| 16:23.39 | Imperios | They're so stupid it's amusing |
| 16:41.42 | Imperios | They were all "white power brrr" so I asked them to define "white" |
| 16:41.55 | Imperios | They gave me several definitions |
| 16:42.02 | Imperios | One could include David ben Gurion |
| 16:42.08 | Imperios | The other could include Ayatollah Khomeini |
| 16:42.14 | Imperios | The third one could include Nelson Mandela |
| 16:59.53 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5187c090@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.135.192.144) |
| 16:59.57 | Hachiman | Hai |
| 17:00.23 | OluapWorker | ~cuddle Hachiman |
| 17:00.23 | infobot | ACTION grabs Hachiman and cuddles until Hachiman begs for mercy |
| 17:00.30 | Hachiman | <3 |
| 17:00.52 | Hachiman | https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10447158_10153664526753294_1068735206060383235_n.png?oh=f85f59ed4269a33ae637036172f99d02&oe=55BAE9AA |
| 17:01.30 | OluapWorker | 2qt |
| 17:06.48 | Imperios | Hi Hachiman |
| 17:07.54 | Imperios | Hachiman: http://krautchan.net/files/1426256480002.jpg I think we need to relive 1945 a few more times hur |
| 17:09.23 | Hachiman | Aye |
| 17:28.36 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@24.114.92.81) |
| 17:31.18 | Imperios | Hachiman: So I went to 4chan's /pol/ and saw all these white suprematist fellows |
| 17:31.30 | Imperios | I asked them to define the term "white" |
| 17:32.01 | Imperios | ...An hour has passed and they still cannot give one |
| 17:32.32 | OluapWorker | How about you go write fiction instead of spending your time in that sea of piss |
| 17:33.00 | Imperios | http://gizmodo.com/nypd-caught-editing-wikipedia-articles-on-police-brutal-1691267182 Heh |
| 17:33.28 | Hachiman | Oh wow |
| 17:38.12 | odell | Imperios: /pol/acks |
| 17:40.19 | Imperios | http://krautchan.net/files/1426264014001.jpg |
| 17:42.30 | odell | He looks like has got downs |
| 17:42.33 | odell | *slience* |
| 17:43.04 | Imperios | The Kremlin is preparing a major announcement, journalists are asked not to depart for the weekend http://vlasti.net/news/213426 |
| 17:43.09 | Imperios | Holy shit |
| 17:44.42 | odell | It's kinda funny that /int/ has a similar behaviour to /pol/ but more politically correct. |
| 17:45.28 | Imperios | Funny thing is that the Russian /pol/ is actually very pro-Europe/pro-USA/liberal/anti-nationalist whatever |
| 17:45.42 | Imperios | Except they're as stupid at being liberal as 4chan /pol/acks are at being nationalist |
| 17:47.05 | odell | Well. /pol/ happens to be full of people who are just the opposite of their own country's people. |
| 17:47.48 | Imperios | You see, our /pol/'s perception of "liberalism" is "Putin is Hitler, Russia is terrible, USA conquer us pl0x" |
| 17:48.00 | Imperios | Oh and "Hail Obama" |
| 17:50.00 | odell | Imperios: зиг Ñ
айÑÐ»Ñ Obama |
| 17:51.30 | odell | For non-russians. It's "sieg heil Obama" *another slience* |
| 17:52.34 | Tek0516 | Our cafeteria has hot chocolate that isn't scalding water with a hint of chocolate . :D |
| 17:53.37 | odell | I prefer heated milk with cocao powder and suger. |
| 17:54.09 | *** join/#sporewiki Wormy_ (52131c03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.19.28.3) |
| 17:54.21 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 17:54.26 | odell | Hey |
| 17:54.48 | Tek0516 | I'm just glad to have hot chocolate that actually contains chocolate. XD |
| 17:54.49 | Tek0516 | Hello |
| 17:54.50 | Comrade_Vinny | BEst hot chocolates are mostly made of a mix of white chocolate and coco powder :) |
| 17:55.49 | Wormy_ | got that |
| 17:56.19 | Wormy_ | I prefer proper drinking cocolate to any instant though |
| 17:57.10 | odell | My usual chocolate drink just milk mixed with suger-cocao. |
| 17:58.05 | Comrade_Vinny | Yah |
| 17:58.07 | odell | funny that cocao is toxic to most of the mammals. |
| 17:58.16 | Tek0516 | lol |
| 17:58.19 | Comrade_Vinny | A good amount of sugar is required. Especially with the powder |
| 17:58.43 | odell | While it isn't toxic for us. |
| 17:59.26 | odell | Ah oh. Cocao is toxic due to it's Theobromine contents. |
| 17:59.43 | odell | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine |
| 18:00.37 | Wormy_ | It is toxic to us is extremely large amounts (but that goes for anything lol) |
| 18:01.07 | Wormy_ | You'd be sick before you poisoned yourself with chocolate |
| 18:03.43 | odell | And you'll eventually vomit it out too. |
| 18:05.41 | *** join/#sporewiki OfficerJackal_ (~OfficerJa@2601:3:8681:3d8:c006:1edf:6dd0:7046) |
| 18:06.32 | Wormy_ | I wonder what other relatives of cacao taste like |
| 18:07.01 | *** join/#sporewiki OfficerJackal__ (~OfficerJa@2601:3:8681:3d8:c006:1edf:6dd0:7046) |
| 18:09.47 | Wormy_ | Theobroma bicolour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yJtpCujug4 |
| 18:10.10 | odell | The fact of teeth can be asymmertric in detail makes me nervous about mine. |
| 18:11.49 | Wormy_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupua%C3%A7u#Fruit |
| 18:12.41 | Imperios | http://krautchan.net/files/1426270175001.jpg Putin v3 |
| 18:14.10 | odell | Imperios: You just reminded me of an other gif of a RT video containing the russian federal service chasing a man with two buckets over his own head. |
| 18:21.35 | Tek0516 | odell: So far 96% of the 3217 reviews of Skylines have been positive. XD |
| 18:21.53 | odell | It is. |
| 18:26.32 | Tek0516 | Oh right, tomorrow is Pi day. |
| 18:28.00 | Wormy_ | dayumn nature http://imgur.com/gallery/WcFP9oJ |
| 18:29.10 | odell | Tek0516: Make sure you've baked a pie to celebrate the day. |
| 18:32.09 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.92.81) |
| 18:39.08 | odell | TekDroid Imperios: http://i.imgur.com/3ONQYr1.jpg |
| 18:41.30 | odell | http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/map_projections.png |
| 18:43.35 | odell | Wormy_: http://i.imgur.com/gIT4XaT.webm |
| 18:47.04 | Wormy_ | Plate Carre ftw |
| 18:52.29 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (0597530a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.83.10) |
| 18:54.36 | Wormy_ | TekDroid, odell: You should watch this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_%28film%29 |
| 18:54.39 | Wormy_ | Hi |
| 18:56.55 | odell | Wormy_: A horror movie... about trying to finding the exact Pi number? |
| 18:57.00 | odell | Hey Monet. |
| 18:57.17 | Monet | Hello |
| 18:57.32 | Wormy_ | It isn't horror, its surrealist though |
| 18:57.52 | odell | I expected "Life of Pi" |
| 18:59.02 | Wormy_ | The film is about Pi, but the mathematician / programmer finds a number, in which these Wall Street white collar criminals go after him, and some Jews who think he knows the true name of their god. |
| 18:59.45 | Wormy_ | He suffers continuous hallucinations and cluster headaches and is paranoid |
| 19:00.25 | odell | Sounds indeed a surreal satire film. |
| 19:01.10 | Wormy_ | Its fascinating though, it plays with both mathematics and mysticism |
| 19:01.34 | Wormy_ | I'll show you some scenes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShdmErv5jvs |
| 19:02.16 | odell | Monet: I didn't think this one through. http://i.imgur.com/9QtmoAq.jpg |
| 19:02.59 | Monet | fail |
| 19:04.02 | *** join/#sporewiki OfficerJackal (~OfficerJa@2601:3:8681:3d8:c006:1edf:6dd0:7046) |
| 19:05.12 | Wormy_ | Odell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmWhwyA0NU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FvtMSUeLk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv6L4DunPDE |
| 19:08.24 | odell | I don't really understand it hur |
| 19:09.17 | Wormy_ | Its not one of those films to take in lightly |
| 19:10.31 | Wormy_ | Another theme is the Golden Ratio and spirals |
| 19:19.02 | odell | Wormy_: Reminds me of the british movie of a student who stumble across an other man whose wife just got killed. |
| 19:19.34 | odell | The man told the student a story about his former mathematican colleuge. |
| 19:27.05 | Wormy_ | Not heard of this, carry on |
| 19:29.19 | odell | The mathematican tried to find and break a specific number. All of his attempts failed. His anger and insanity escalated until he lobotomized himself with a nailgun. |
| 19:30.04 | Monet | Shit... |
| 19:30.52 | Wormy_ | Odell: Well that happens in Pi, except with a drill |
| 19:53.56 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian (562d6746@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.45.103.70) |
| 19:53.56 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 19:54.07 | Cyrannian | Ello |
| 19:55.14 | OluapWorker | ~kick Cyrannian |
| 19:55.14 | infobot | ACTION kicks Cyrannian |
| 19:55.25 | OluapWorker | maek phaedric orde paeg grrrr |
| 19:55.33 | OluapWorker | order even |
| 19:55.34 | Cyrannian | fuk u |
| 19:56.12 | Cyrannian | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Tyr%C3%B3mairon#Appearances - c dis |
| 19:56.21 | OluapWorker | tis the return of nagging |
| 19:57.21 | OluapWorker | I c that, and you're a dum-dum because Anteddy didn't appear in Mar-Júun's Strike |
| 19:57.38 | OluapWorker | You're confusing it with the other Mar-Júun story |
| 19:59.00 | Cyrannian | Oh yes Silencing Apollo |
| 19:59.19 | OluapWorker | Mar-Júun - tried dat got pecked by giant chick |
| 20:00.37 | Cyrannian | We might remake that story at some point since I have yet to figure out how Chaneonix fits into the Oikoumene since I started Apotheosis |
| 20:00.54 | OluapWorker | I was actually gonna ask if he was still around |
| 20:02.04 | Cyrannian | Perhaps I'll start thinking of adding him into the new chapter of Apotheosis, showing his opposition to Anteddy's schemes |
| 20:02.09 | OluapWorker | Chaneonix was the Oikoumene who created the Dvotties and later became their god. He follows no one but the collective will of Dvottiekind |
| 20:05.04 | Cyrannian | It's weird that Chaneonix being disguised as Tigarlu in order to watch over Apollo actually makes a bit of sense :P |
| 20:05.38 | OluapWorker | No wonder Tigarlu is close to Gorf, they're both godlike beings |
| 20:06.06 | Cyrannian | aye, both must find ways to fight against Mr. Bigglesworth, Anteddy's true master |
| 20:07.45 | OluapWorker | Oopsie daisy, that's the final battle of the war spoiled |
| 20:11.20 | *** join/#sporewiki Imperios (~Imperios@95.140.92.52) |
| 20:12.24 | odell | пÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ |
| 20:13.07 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (18deeda2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.222.237.162) |
| 20:13.14 | odell | Hello |
| 20:13.15 | DrodoEmpire | Hey everyone |
| 20:14.53 | Monet | hello |
| 20:18.49 | Imperios | https://2ch.hk/po/src/8213354/14262341896871.jpg |
| 20:19.37 | DrodoEmpire | lol |
| 20:19.48 | Imperios | http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1426276054290.jpg |
| 20:20.13 | DrodoEmpire | lol |
| 20:21.12 | odell | Imperios: Mine looks more like a child's crayon drawing. |
| 20:22.47 | odell | That iran one. |
| 20:23.51 | odell | And my friend sent this back to me. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/874/930/7e7.jpg |
| 20:25.19 | Monet | Imperios: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/User:Monet47/The_Fictionsverse_And_it%27s_Reflection_On_Reality |
| 20:25.27 | Monet | I recal lyou said you wanted to see this |
| 20:26.46 | Imperios | Wait |
| 20:26.52 | Imperios | That's something old |
| 20:27.47 | Monet | Yea it was a blog before they al lgot deleted |
| 20:29.16 | Monet | I wondered about adding to it though |
| 20:39.20 | Cyrannian | http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Captain:Guolivian#Trivia - Some original plans for the GCW |
| 20:41.12 | OluapWorker | Guolivian - emperor pls no |
| 20:42.15 | Hachiman | https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10991374_325039081020077_957575980967398282_n.jpg?oh=23518ba6ae38062b9b4c7c5cd4cc3965&oe=55841037&__gda__=1433748214_8dbf2646f2bce80b4839cbcd7e10cfe0 |
| 20:43.26 | Wormy_ | Wow, I wonder if that would be useful in space. |
| 20:43.27 | Imperios | I ship Guo and Tyro <3 |
| 20:43.50 | OluapWorker | I read that as "Guo and Tyraz" for a second |
| 20:44.39 | Imperios | Iovera - WHAAAAAAAAAT |
| 20:44.39 | Hachiman | Tyraz - ooh guolivian-tan~ |
| 20:44.42 | Wormy_ | Watching this Dead or Alive documentary makes me glad I can walk in the English countryside without fear of bears, wolves or big cats. |
| 20:45.06 | Cyrannian | Guolivian was an invited guest at the wedding night festivities if you know what I mean |
| 20:45.08 | Wormy_ | I'm kind of glad they are extinct here |
| 20:45.34 | Wormy_ | I have actually seen an escaped Lynx |
| 20:45.50 | Wormy_ | But I guess some of you will be thinking "not that story again" |
| 20:51.01 | Hachiman | https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10997998_468035130010490_4841678004112681208_n.jpg?oh=8a6fcdd19ee3e8a8cc4bcb7d599d7802&oe=55791F05 |
| 20:52.25 | OluapWorker | olol |
| 20:55.15 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@24.114.92.253) |
| 21:19.09 | *** join/#sporewiki odell (~dpessimis@unaffiliated/drom) |
| 21:19.51 | odell | пÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ Ñнова |
| 21:21.12 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5187c090@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.135.192.144) |
| 21:23.57 | Imperios | Okay remind me not to go to /pol/ ever again |
| 21:24.35 | Imperios | For some reason I felt a sudden need to be racist and arrogant while there |
| 21:25.08 | Tek0516 | O.o |
| 21:25.09 | Hachiman | That's /pol/ for you |
| 21:25.40 | Wormy_ | Resist those corruption memes |
| 21:26.24 | Imperios | No seriously an hour there and I was spouting Mein Kampf-level shit |
| 21:27.09 | Imperios | Or at least trying to prove that Koreans are more attractive or something |
| 21:27.22 | Wormy_ | You have sold your soul |
| 21:27.29 | Wormy_ | Oh |
| 21:27.31 | Imperios | Shit this is something Satanic |
| 21:27.37 | odell | Imperios: ÑÐ´ÐµÐ»Ð°Ñ Ð·Ñо ( ͡° ÍÊ Í¡Â°) |
| 21:27.53 | Imperios | And I though Russian /pol/ was stupid |
| 21:27.57 | Wormy_ | Well that's probably more instinctive |
| 21:28.52 | odell | Gotta admit it, I look pretty silly with my broken russian. |
| 21:32.30 | Wormy_ | Tbh I avoid the backends of the internet |
| 21:33.32 | Wormy_ | It makes me angry, and I don't want them in my browser history or to get virus's |
| 21:36.12 | Imperios | I really love how they're all Putin fanboys |
| 21:36.18 | Imperios | PUTIN PROTECTS DA WHITE PEOPLE |
| 21:37.41 | Wormy_ | Imperios: How much of it is bigotry or just really dark humour? |
| 21:37.57 | Imperios | Not sure |
| 21:38.08 | Imperios | Russian /pol/ guys are usually trolls |
| 21:38.17 | Imperios | These guys however, they're genuine zealots |
| 21:40.47 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.03 | Imperios | Speaking of which |
| 21:41.25 | Wormy_ | I find it too cheesey |
| 21:41.26 | Hachiman | I can't watch it either purely because I feel Comic Relief is trash |
| 21:42.01 | Imperios | Hachiman: So I found a blog that shows various quotes from Stormfront and Tumblr with names of ethnicities, races and sexualities erased |
| 21:42.19 | Hachiman | Wait what |
| 21:42.20 | Wormy_ | And I also feel its there to make the middle class feel good about themselves . Sure its a good cause but if people in the West *really* cared we could contribute a lot more daily to put food in the mouths of everyone |
| 21:42.20 | Imperios | And then makes its viewers try to guess where did the quote come from |
| 21:43.00 | Imperios | As you can guess, it is rather difficult hur |
| 21:43.00 | Imperios | http://www.reddit.com/r/StormfrontorSJW/ |
| 21:43.03 | Imperios | There |
| 21:43.13 | Hachiman | "SJW" |
| 21:43.14 | Hachiman | Nope |
| 21:43.48 | Hachiman | Comic Relief is a scheme because a majority of the donations ends up as free money for the government without having to employ a justification such as tax and what money that does go to places like Africa is put towards doing more harm than good |
| 21:43.57 | Imperios | Hachiman: The point of the blog is |
| 21:44.07 | Imperios | When you remove certain words |
| 21:44.19 | Imperios | Neo-Nazi and SJW rhetoric becomes indistinguishable |
| 21:45.11 | Wormy_ | Hachi: That's disgusting, like most things in the media. A scam. If you really want to help the world you need to get off your arse imo |
| 21:45.19 | *** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~DanzaDelM@95.140.92.52) |
| 21:46.04 | Wormy_ | Anarchist farming ftw |
| 21:46.18 | Hachiman | I feel Africa cannot be helped |
| 21:47.03 | Hachiman | They are not educated enough to know where they are going wrong other than their lack of resources; the many villages and tribes do not believe they are causing their own problems via overpopulation |
| 21:47.29 | Wormy_ | It cannot be because of the level of corruption and poor distribution of wealth. There is a lot of wealth in Africa but it goes to multinational corporation and corrupt governments |
| 21:47.42 | Hachiman | We have been donating money, time, and resources to that damned continent for decades and we have yet to hear any significant word of it getting any better |
| 21:48.07 | Wormy_ | The African continent has a great deal of resources but it is distributed very badly |
| 21:49.11 | Hachiman | We should stop wasting time and stop beating Africa's dead horse and focus on our own problems |
| 21:49.29 | OfficerJackal | Hachiman: Really, the only reason our aid mones does no good there, is that the governments in Africa are corrupt as fuck and drain all the money, or it get's lost due to rebel activity/cultural problems, and etc. |
| 21:49.49 | Wormy_ | As I said its better to use or join charity organisations to aid countries in this situation |
| 21:50.04 | Hachiman | Why aid Africa if it will not get any better |
| 21:50.21 | OfficerJackal | It will get better, it will just take time. |
| 21:50.24 | OfficerJackal | A long time. |
| 21:50.28 | Hachiman | We have given it enough time |
| 21:50.42 | Hachiman | It has not gotten better at all from when we first started |
| 21:50.54 | Hachiman | And we started decades ago |
| 21:50.55 | Wormy_ | I think its okay to aid people on a humanitarian basis |
| 21:51.10 | Wormy_ | Rather than in the pockets of corrupt governments or corporations |
| 21:51.36 | Hachiman | Put the damned money towards where it counts like the UK's medical or educational system |
| 21:51.49 | Hachiman | Because those are going down the shitter as of recent |
| 21:52.11 | Wormy_ | Actually, no, you have it all wrong. A lot of our money is wasted of shit we don't need |
| 21:52.23 | OfficerJackal | The reason it's like this still is because country lines were poorly drawn, with numerous tribal/different cultures in countries that didn't really mix together, and it lead to numerous civil wars. Another thing, is that the governments there were always corrupt or unstable, full of greedy people and overthrown by greedy people, hungry for power in a cycle. |
| 21:52.34 | OfficerJackal | Tbh, for money to be effective there, they do kind of have to fix their own problems. |
| 21:52.34 | odell | So I found this. http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:S.K.U.T.H.E.R. |
| 21:52.44 | OfficerJackal | Like, corrupt government, unstable government, and etc. |
| 21:53.07 | Wormy_ | Like a gross amount on national defense or the banks. In fact a fraction of the money in the West that goes into military spending could put food into the mouths of all people in poverty |
| 21:53.31 | Wormy_ | Like I said, its a problem we have caused and refuse to do any shit about |
| 21:54.06 | Wormy_ | Thats why I don't like Comic Relief, its to make us feel better but in reality makes a pinprick of a difference to the situation |
| 21:54.18 | Hachiman | Exactly |
| 21:54.23 | Hachiman | Comic Relief is a waste of time |
| 21:54.43 | Hachiman | I would rather put my money towards NASA funding |
| 21:55.10 | odell | If it was just possible. |
| 21:55.27 | DrodoEmpire | Africa shouldn't be getting foreign aid. Trade and economic competition should be stimulated there and it will grow naturally, and more sustainably. |
| 21:55.39 | DrodoEmpire | Easier said than done, of course. But that's what needs to happen |
| 21:56.03 | Hachiman | Either it sorts itself out or it wrecks itself into further calamity |
| 21:56.04 | OfficerJackal | Yeah, they need to get alot of problems out of the way first through that stifles economic trade and competition to invigorate their economies. |
| 21:56.14 | Hachiman | Either way we should not waste our money by throwing pointless aid at it |
| 21:56.26 | Wormy_ | I'd rather society actually cared about things that mattered. More money to research antibiotics and geoengineering, money money for education and healthcare, nuclear fusion, space travel and indeed |
| 21:56.34 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Only proper aid would be making it self-sufficient |
| 21:56.39 | OfficerJackal | Like the problems I listed before, and other things, like gross economic mismanagement, AKA places like Zimbabwe and shit, among other things. |
| 21:56.44 | DrodoEmpire | Give foreign aid for too long, they become dependent on it anf corrupt governments waste the money anyway |
| 21:56.49 | DrodoEmpire | OfficerJackal: Exactly |
| 21:56.50 | Wormy_ | and indeed humanitarian efforts |
| 21:56.53 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 21:57.05 | ImpyDroid | Investing in agriculture and education there, cultural development |
| 21:57.18 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:2:4281:12f0:50b1:de42:77f9:a00d) |
| 21:57.23 | Hachiman | Like I do not wish to sound like that sort of person but the only way we can possibly help Africa is by using foreign aid to eliminate the corrupt African governments |
| 21:57.34 | DrodoEmpire | Cutting aid *entirely* and leaving it to its own devices would be unwise. Stimulating trade, assisting in disasters and investing in Africa is the way to go |
| 21:57.35 | The_Randomness | Hello everyone |
| 21:57.53 | ImpyDroid | Problem is eliminating corrupt governments is impossible |
| 21:57.54 | OfficerJackal | One place which is a good example of an African country doing good, is Botswana I think, they have vast diamond reserves there and they manage it correctly, bringing $$$ to their economy. |
| 21:57.58 | ImpyDroid | Look at Russia or Ukraine |
| 21:58.08 | ImpyDroid | One corrupt governmenr leaves, another rises |
| 21:58.14 | DrodoEmpire | Hachiman: How do you propose going about that? Last time the US tried that the Middle East happened. :P |
| 21:58.14 | Wormy_ | The difficulty in the 20th century though was that Western governments tried to "uplift" the world but all it created was unpredictable chaos |
| 21:58.33 | Hachiman | Well then at least have Africa ran by people who know what they are doing |
| 21:58.36 | Hachiman | African or not |
| 21:59.11 | OfficerJackal | Hachiman: No, we should not intervine directly like that at all, they need to short out their own problems. Otherwise, we could end up with numerous Iraq scenarios in different forms, systems we set up just crumbling because it wasn't exactly made and fitted for the people/culture. |
| 21:59.17 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 21:59.37 | Hachiman | But the culture there is evidently harms itself |
| 21:59.49 | DrodoEmpire | Its not a cultural problem |
| 21:59.53 | DrodoEmpire | Its a leadership problem |
| 22:00.15 | OfficerJackal | In some cases it is a cultural problems, in some countries there cultural groups that aren't really fond of eachother are mixed together. |
| 22:00.19 | OfficerJackal | Like the Rwanda fiasco. |
| 22:00.46 | Tek0516 | I believe at least one issue with Africa arose from the fairly random borders the Scramble for Africa made. |
| 22:01.00 | Wormy_ | As I said, the African people are not to blame for the problems there, I think ultimately capitalism is though |
| 22:01.01 | DrodoEmpire | Africa had and does have competent leaders and rich countries; Its not a matter of "inferior" or "dangerous" cultures. Its a matter that many current African leaders are more interested in keeping power than helping the coutnry |
| 22:01.02 | Wormy_ | I agree |
| 22:01.09 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Develop education and empower the intelligentsia |
| 22:01.28 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy: How so? I blame 19th century colonialism. Nothing economic happens in africa right now |
| 22:01.42 | DrodoEmpire | Except for the richer and more prosperous countries |
| 22:01.52 | Wormy_ | DrodoEmpire: I mean the terrible distribution of wealth in said countries |
| 22:01.52 | Hachiman | Mankind can be putting their money into more efficient and proactive causes such as the ones Wormy mentioned and if Africa cannot get its act together and follow suite then it gets left in the dust |
| 22:01.56 | DrodoEmpire | Where, surprise surprise, capitalism abounds |
| 22:02.01 | OfficerJackal | Like Botswana, South Africa, Ghana, Nambia and Tansania to a lesser extant. |
| 22:02.04 | Hachiman | People who do not wish to be part of Africa's problem can leave Africa |
| 22:02.11 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy: That's wealth inequality. Not "capitalism" |
| 22:02.20 | ImpyDroid | That is what could work, making African srates more mrritocratic |
| 22:02.22 | OfficerJackal | Benin has a democratic government that is alright, but it's pretty poor. |
| 22:02.38 | DrodoEmpire | Wealth inequality happens everywhere under every system and its not caused by economic exploitation for most of africa |
| 22:02.50 | DrodoEmpire | Its caused by constant war and a lack of infrastucture |
| 22:02.59 | Tek0516 | ^ |
| 22:03.03 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: >leave Africa That is one of the main problems Africa faces |
| 22:03.04 | OfficerJackal | Yeah, basically. ^ |
| 22:03.08 | Wormy_ | Yeah and do you not realise the amount of investment corporations and Western powers have with countries in Africa? |
| 22:03.10 | OfficerJackal | To Drodo's comment. XD |
| 22:03.11 | ImpyDroid | Smart people leave it |
| 22:04.15 | Wormy_ | Colonialism has been a huge fac tor though, yes |
| 22:04.17 | ImpyDroid | Because they cannot recieve education there |
| 22:04.19 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy: If you're referring to foreign aid, that isn't capitalism. That's foreign aid. |
| 22:04.23 | ImpyDroid | Obviously |
| 22:04.24 | DrodoEmpire | :P |
| 22:04.41 | ImpyDroid | Also Hachiman you may be generalising things too much; African countries are all different |
| 22:04.47 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:04.51 | Wormy_ | No, not foreign aid |
| 22:05.04 | ImpyDroid | Some are truly destitute but South Africa or Nigeria are actually half-decenr |
| 22:05.06 | ImpyDroid | *decent |
| 22:05.28 | Wormy_ | Anyway this delves into the subject of colonialism. How Belgium thought it was doing right caused a massive war on the Congo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Grace_(TV_series)#The_Monkey_In_The_Machine_and_the_Machine_in_the_Monkey |
| 22:05.44 | Hachiman | Also direct Western intevention has not always been negative |
| 22:05.45 | Tek0516 | You can't implement 21st century systems with the infrastructure behind that, with the effects of colonialism having vastly different and mixed results. |
| 22:06.05 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi: Its always been negative in the past 200 years. :P |
| 22:06.13 | Hachiman | Not meaning to sound like a weaboo but look at how intervention from the West assisted Japan |
| 22:06.34 | DrodoEmpire | ...Only after the deaths of many in the bloody civil war and crackdown of the Samurai elite. :P |
| 22:06.50 | Hachiman | Yes but a unified and thriving economic power came out of it |
| 22:06.51 | ImpyDroid | Not exactly true |
| 22:06.56 | ImpyDroid | It developed itself |
| 22:07.16 | Tek0516 | The process of rapid modernization gets messy rapidly. |
| 22:07.31 | DrodoEmpire | Japan was an outstanding example of people who learnt fast, anyhow. China, meanwhile, was fucked over for all of the 19th and most of the 20th century in its disasterous moderization attempts |
| 22:07.54 | Tek0516 | Indeed. |
| 22:07.58 | DrodoEmpire | Wormy: People are starting to invest and its starting to help. Again, the reason why the average African person is very poor is not because they only get a cent a day working in a sweatshop, its because of the constant terrorism/civil war and lack of basic necessities. |
| 22:08.09 | Tek0516 | ^^ |
| 22:08.16 | Wormy_ | I think some Western ideas have indeed contributed to the world in terms of democracy and science, etc. But western intervention has never really worked very much politically or ethnically. |
| 22:08.17 | OfficerJackal | Yep6. |
| 22:08.24 | OfficerJackal | To drodo's comment again. XD |
| 22:08.31 | DrodoEmpire | I agree Wormy. |
| 22:09.28 | Wormy_ | You misunderstand what I meant by investment, but it might have been the wrong word |
| 22:09.37 | odell | Western has great ideas and science. But shit politics and ethnics. The Eastern is the opposite ego of the western. |
| 22:09.45 | Tek0516 | Yeah, that kind of change is difficult to externally enforce on a nation. |
| 22:09.57 | Hachiman | >Implying Eastern politics are any better than European ones |
| 22:10.05 | Wormy_ | Rather, much of the money is drained away |
| 22:10.18 | Wormy_ | Hachi: China owned the US's economy in the 90s |
| 22:10.20 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, becaue of corrupt governments making themselves rich |
| 22:10.42 | Tek0516 | That's true, you need money staying in to develop. |
| 22:10.53 | Wormy_ | And have western powers done much about it, no. |
| 22:11.00 | DrodoEmpire | You could blame exploitive business practices for the poverty in southeast asia and india, but not in Africa, and its bad to blame "capitalism" as if its one, monolithic thing. Blame the companies' shitty practices that could happen under almost any economic syste, |
| 22:11.03 | DrodoEmpire | *system |
| 22:11.16 | Wormy_ | Because lets be honest, power has gone from our government to capitalists. |
| 22:11.31 | Wormy_ | I blame the system as a whole |
| 22:11.40 | ImpyDroid | ...that feel when you realise you live in another world |
| 22:11.53 | DrodoEmpire | Not a good idea, for the reasons I have stated. :P |
| 22:11.56 | Hachiman | How do you mean? |
| 22:12.53 | DrodoEmpire | As for corporations getting more political power? Yeah that's concerning to me too. Though, Canada does have ways of curbing corporate influence, which is good. |
| 22:12.53 | ImpyDroid | Russia is different, the problems we face are very different, as is our opinion towards rhem |
| 22:12.59 | ImpyDroid | ALL HAIL PUTIN |
| 22:13.15 | Wormy_ | Nobody is really to blame though, I don't think there is anybody in control or knows what to do about the breaks in the system |
| 22:13.17 | ImpyDroid | We have lots of corruption problems too |
| 22:13.19 | Hachiman | Why can the West not just support the South African government in dismantling African warlords and nationalist groups rather than sponsoring African warlords and nationalist groups |
| 22:13.31 | Wormy_ | Its become very unpredictable |
| 22:13.44 | ImpyDroid | I wouldn't let you take over our corrupt government though |
| 22:13.54 | Tek0516 | Corporations are definitely more powerful than before but I'd say the extent varies by nation. |
| 22:14.09 | DrodoEmpire | ...Because giving a somewhat-corrupt country lots of money to invade and "liberate" other countries is a terrible idea that can only end badly? |
| 22:14.17 | Tek0516 | ^^ |
| 22:14.22 | OfficerJackal | Wait, you mean South Africa invading other countries? |
| 22:14.42 | ImpyDroid | Simply enough because another Western-backed corrupt government would emerge soon like in Ukraine |
| 22:14.43 | DrodoEmpire | No, Hachi wants other countries to give South Africa money to destroy warlords and rebel groups. |
| 22:14.57 | ImpyDroid | Putin is at least predictable |
| 22:15.00 | Wormy_ | I gagree with Drodo here |
| 22:15.12 | DrodoEmpire | Look at what happened in the middle east, when the USA tried to eliminate terrorism there. It caused even worse problems |
| 22:15.17 | Tek0516 | Try to dismantle them and you get a civil war. |
| 22:15.27 | Wormy_ | Hachi: You should watch Bitter Lake or the Power of Nightmares |
| 22:15.27 | Hachiman | They already HAVE civil wars |
| 22:15.28 | DrodoEmpire | There's a quote I heard somewhere that fits perfectly, actually |
| 22:15.50 | DrodoEmpire | "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, straightforward, and wrong." |
| 22:15.56 | Tek0516 | *civil war with lots of guerilla warfare that makes it long and costly for the aggressors |
| 22:16.05 | DrodoEmpire | And what good would even *more* war do, Hachi? |
| 22:16.06 | Wormy_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_%28film%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares |
| 22:16.27 | ImpyDroid | Nobody likes foreign forces intervening, it would cause an even greater wave of unrest |
| 22:16.31 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:17.01 | ImpyDroid | You can only annex a place if you can assure the population's compliance and it is hard to earn |
| 22:17.15 | ImpyDroid | You know how much money we are investing in Crimea right now? |
| 22:17.31 | DrodoEmpire | Too much and its hurting your country, unfortunately. |
| 22:17.41 | ImpyDroid | Military intervention is not that easy |
| 22:17.49 | Hachiman | Despite the corruption that goes on within South Africa, it is much more desirable than the other, smaller and more petty competitors that keep the country from being unified |
| 22:18.00 | Wormy_ | Western intervention has a poor track record of causing ethnic divide, corrupt phoney democracies, and so on |
| 22:18.15 | Tek0516 | ^^ |
| 22:18.18 | Hachiman | It at least sustains itself and keeps up with the modern world |
| 22:18.25 | ImpyDroid | Nope |
| 22:18.30 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi, its not "much more desirable" as it would only further destablize Africa, including South Africa. |
| 22:18.32 | ImpyDroid | You intervene in Iraq |
| 22:18.36 | ImpyDroid | ISIS emerges |
| 22:20.01 | ImpyDroid | I am Russian, so trust me: dismantling the old order always results in more chaos |
| 22:20.02 | DrodoEmpire | We have plenty of historical examples and can certainly guess from the current political situation that these plans are really, really bad ideas. Problems like this need to be handled with extreme care and solutions must be gradually implemented. |
| 22:20.12 | DrodoEmpire | ^ (to Impy) |
| 22:20.19 | Wormy_ | Also look at the Arab Spring, while it was started by people wanting more Western liberty and using social media to organise change, in many countries like Egypt or Libya it hasn't worked. And although Western powers want to intervene with Iraq to defeat ISIS they know that means collaboration with Assad in Syria |
| 22:20.35 | ImpyDroid | You can unify it, but it would require meticulous planning and above all, relying on local sources of power |
| 22:21.12 | ImpyDroid | That is how you took India and how we are taking Eastern Ukraine |
| 22:21.24 | Hachiman | More time waste |
| 22:21.27 | Hachiman | wasted even |
| 22:21.54 | DrodoEmpire | I wouldn't call a carefully-implemented plan that actually *has* a chance of success wasted time. |
| 22:22.20 | DrodoEmpire | I would call a bombastic invasion of rebel-infested countries a waste of time, and a costly one at that. |
| 22:22.23 | DrodoEmpire | :P |
| 22:22.33 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Which is still preferrable over complete chaos |
| 22:22.47 | Hachiman | And why would that be when it would be getting rid of the rebels, warlords and nationalist groups |
| 22:23.00 | DrodoEmpire | The US learned this the hard way, and it, along with the rest of the world is still dealing with the consequences. |
| 22:23.06 | ImpyDroid | Because when you do another rebel group would arrive |
| 22:23.17 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi: You're simply emptying the food chain for more competitors. |
| 22:23.28 | ImpyDroid | Like in Iraq, you toppled another dictator, then ISIS swarmed in |
| 22:23.30 | DrodoEmpire | More, more extreme rebels would rise to take their place. |
| 22:23.31 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:23.34 | ImpyDroid | Ya |
| 22:24.01 | DrodoEmpire | By invading like that or doing other direct intervention in africa, you're rubbing salt into the wound, not mending it |
| 22:24.14 | Tek0516 | And those resistance groups are difficult to purge. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan. |
| 22:24.19 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:24.30 | Hachiman | And this is why we may as well just stop funding Africa |
| 22:24.48 | Wormy_ | Also the US and UK often find themselves having to work with or arming certain rebel groups |
| 22:24.53 | DrodoEmpire | ...Because of unrelated rebel groups? :P |
| 22:25.00 | ImpyDroid | ...And this is when we get even larger hordes of refugees at our borders |
| 22:25.01 | Hachiman | It will not see its problems fixed by the 2100s |
| 22:25.11 | Wormy_ | And such weapons can go into the hands of future militants |
| 22:25.13 | ImpyDroid | Okay, you |
| 22:25.38 | ImpyDroid | We have other things to do like international conquest |
| 22:25.43 | Wormy_ | Its not a simple good vs bad story our politicians tried to tell us a decade ago |
| 22:25.54 | Hachiman | The rest of the world will have moved on technologically, socially, culturally, etc and Africa would still be in the same mess it has been in since the 1900s |
| 22:26.21 | ImpyDroid | Again, not all of it, Africa has some rather fast developing regions |
| 22:26.29 | ImpyDroid | In West and South Africa especially |
| 22:26.34 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi, you're just a pessimist. Your solutions are heavy-handed and impossible, and your inability or unwillingness to see the facts of the matter is getting bothersome |
| 22:26.38 | Tek0516 | The problems can be fixed but it takes more than military action to fix it. It takes massive social and political reform. |
| 22:27.02 | DrodoEmpire | Reforms, economic stimulation, all of these things are needed to actually rebuild Africa. |
| 22:27.09 | Tek0516 | Absolutely. |
| 22:27.11 | Hachiman | But the Africans cannot politically and socially reform themselves otherwise they would have done it by now |
| 22:27.17 | DrodoEmpire | Africa was for many centuries one of the richest places on the planet |
| 22:27.23 | Cyrannian | Keep things civil. |
| 22:27.35 | Wormy_ | Thats edging on racism |
| 22:27.39 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:28.03 | odell | It kinda makes me want to blame on the British Empire to be honest. |
| 22:28.04 | ImpyDroid | DrodoEmpire: Vivat for Mali and Axum |
| 22:28.10 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:28.34 | DrodoEmpire | Blaming the people is a bad idea, Hachi. That's like saying the Native Americans are inferior to the Europeans because they didn't have all of the same stuff Europeans did. |
| 22:29.03 | Hachiman | How was I implying that |
| 22:29.08 | DrodoEmpire | Its because of incompetant leadership, not an inherent deficiency with Africans as a *people*. |
| 22:29.23 | Hachiman | I was not implying the Africans as a people were like that |
| 22:29.25 | DrodoEmpire | "themselves". Implying *them* as a group. |
| 22:29.26 | Hachiman | You misunderstood me |
| 22:30.44 | Wormy_ | I certainly think you can compare cultural ideas and work out which culture has better ones. But thats not a ethnic or human thing, that's a matter of knowledge. And as I said, Africa does have great wealth of resources, but the problems are most certainly political and imo, how the economies of the biggest nations treat it |
| 22:31.04 | Wormy_ | So you cannot blame Africa |
| 22:31.09 | Wormy_ | *African people |
| 22:31.17 | Hachiman | I wasn't blaming the African people |
| 22:31.24 | Hachiman | What I said admittedly came out wrong in hindsight |
| 22:31.29 | Wormy_ | I think they are held by a rock and a hard place |
| 22:32.24 | Hachiman | What I was implying was that if the African leaders were willing to socially and culturally reform without Western intervention, which they evidently are *not*, then such significant changes should have happened by now |
| 22:32.58 | Wormy_ | Aye well I agree its corrupt politics |
| 22:32.58 | DrodoEmpire | Earlier leaders used to be very competent. This generation of them however tend to be more interested in holding onto their own power |
| 22:33.08 | DrodoEmpire | Whoever said that can't change? |
| 22:33.29 | ImpyDroid | Depends on the region, again |
| 22:33.33 | Hachiman | Eh I would not say that earlier generations of leaders were competent |
| 22:33.38 | Hachiman | Look at the Samurai warlords |
| 22:34.21 | Hachiman | Yes a fair number of them decided to hand in their authority for the Meiji Restoration to provide greater prosperity to the country but many of them were interested in holding their own power which is why so much bloodshed happened |
| 22:34.43 | Hachiman | They had to be forcibly removed for the greater benefit of the country as a whole |
| 22:34.49 | Wormy_ | I agree on that one |
| 22:36.05 | ImpyDroid | Consolidation of rule, that happens, yes |
| 22:37.13 | Wormy_ | What worries me though |
| 22:37.41 | Wormy_ | I mean when you look at Egypt, its people ended up right in a new military state |
| 22:37.46 | Hachiman | And it took Western influence - both European and American - to bring Japan into the era of modern society so I cannot see why the same logic can't be applied to the African states considering that those countries that are causing problems are much less resourceful and technologically up-to-date as the Western-influenced parts of Africa |
| 22:38.09 | ImpyDroid | About change, developing education is fitting |
| 22:38.17 | ImpyDroid | *can help |
| 22:38.43 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi: Its because Japan is an outstanding example. You're not seeing all of the hundreds of failed attempts at modernization throughout history |
| 22:39.06 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Japan had older history of civilisation, it had human resources to modernise to begin with |
| 22:39.19 | ImpyDroid | Ditto with Korea, or Southeast Asia |
| 22:39.20 | DrodoEmpire | Like China, or the Sepoy revolt which was a simple rearmament within an already-advanced country. |
| 22:39.23 | ImpyDroid | *had an older |
| 22:39.25 | Wormy_ | Germany as well, after WWII became more liberal |
| 22:39.37 | Wormy_ | There are some examples yes |
| 22:40.04 | Wormy_ | Also the Enlightenment ideas have changed the world in a way its never experienced |
| 22:40.05 | ImpyDroid | You cannot explain everything by "Western influence", that is rather chauvinistic of you |
| 22:40.19 | DrodoEmpire | Well, actually Korea, China, etc. all had a very hard time modernizing. I believe Korea didn't remove the composite bow as a standard miltiary weapon until the 1890's. |
| 22:40.52 | Wormy_ | Wasn't South Korea pooer than North Korea for a time |
| 22:40.56 | ImpyDroid | Aye |
| 22:41.02 | ImpyDroid | We invested in it a lot |
| 22:41.15 | Hachiman | Was it not Russia that led to the Korean civil disputes and the state that North Korea has become |
| 22:42.06 | Wormy_ | I'm not sure on the history but it was caused by a divide of capitalism and communism |
| 22:42.22 | Hachiman | Well no Korea has practically had civil disputes long before America and Russia touched if I remember |
| 22:42.28 | Wormy_ | Pro-Soviet ommunists in the North |
| 22:42.29 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Nope, the rapid fall of NK began AFTER the Soviet Union fell |
| 22:42.30 | Hachiman | But you know what I mean |
| 22:42.54 | Wormy_ | Pro-US in the South |
| 22:42.59 | ImpyDroid | And... well it was both sides of the Cold War |
| 22:43.12 | ImpyDroid | Actually SK even had dictatorships and stuff |
| 22:43.23 | Wormy_ | ^ |
| 22:43.31 | Wormy_ | And military coups |
| 22:44.11 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (0597530a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.83.10) |
| 22:44.18 | Tek0516 | Hello |
| 22:44.19 | Wormy_ | I trying to remember everything from that Plethrons video on the history of the Korean peninsula, so I'm not sure |
| 22:45.09 | The_Randomness | Hey Monet |
| 22:45.14 | Monet | Hello |
| 22:45.37 | Hachiman | As much as I would *love* for Africa to socially reform and advance itself without the requirement of Western intervention, I honestly cannot seeing happening considering how much *good* the Western powers have done for it |
| 22:46.02 | odell | Hey Monet. |
| 22:46.02 | Hachiman | Wait I just contradicted myself |
| 22:46.03 | Hachiman | Fuck |
| 22:46.19 | Tek0516 | Western powers have done some good but also quite a lot of exploitation. |
| 22:46.23 | Monet | I hear there are some nice places in Africa. |
| 22:46.31 | Hachiman | Looks like not even the West can save Africa hur |
| 22:46.50 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, because the west "saved" the Indians, and the native americans... |
| 22:46.55 | Monet | We fuked it up good lol |
| 22:47.06 | ImpyDroid | How about we just let it develop for itself and help it |
| 22:47.09 | ImpyDroid | ...Us |
| 22:47.12 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:47.13 | ImpyDroid | ...Why do I say us |
| 22:47.18 | Hachiman | Now I never said that the elimination of the Native Americans was a good thing |
| 22:47.19 | DrodoEmpire | Make it economically viable |
| 22:47.30 | Monet | ImpyDroid: Because we all know you're secretly European |
| 22:47.52 | ImpyDroid | Yeah I am a Western Europe fanboy sort of |
| 22:48.11 | Hachiman | What the West did was outright invasion and colonial occupation, very different from modernisation attempts |
| 22:48.17 | Hachiman | Which was wrong |
| 22:48.22 | Wormy_ | Anyway, this has diverged a long way from my original point. If you want to help peopl;e in Africa join a humanitarian charity or go out and actually do something. I don't trust Comic Relief or the West can help (or actually cares enough) to really change much |
| 22:48.23 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, and ruthlessly exterminating, enslaving, and exploiting the native peoples of a given area has been the story of Europe between 1500 and early 1900's, Hachi. They've done far more harm than good |
| 22:48.27 | Tek0516 | As we've said though, you can't just go in and change a nation. You need the population to be willing to accept it, the creation of a reasonably stable and viable economy, political leaders willing and able to guide the country through it... |
| 22:48.36 | ImpyDroid | But seriously Russia is not exactly "Western" |
| 22:49.04 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi: Even modernization is exploitive. I can't even *comprehend* how much money firearms and ship manufacturers must've made off of Japan in the 1800's. |
| 22:49.06 | Tek0516 | Russia is its own special subcategory of Western. XD |
| 22:49.09 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:49.28 | Hachiman | I believe that the African peoples are all willing to accept a cease to the bloodshed |
| 22:49.52 | Hachiman | Because what sort of people would want that |
| 22:50.12 | Wormy_ | I think the modernisation of Africa is probably behind a lot of the wealth divide, which is probably what I was trying to say earlier |
| 22:50.16 | Tek0516 | Well in every conflict the peoples want peace. To them it's a matter of whose peace though. |
| 22:50.18 | Hachiman | A continuation of the bloodshed I mean, what sort of people would want to support that |
| 22:50.45 | Monet | A lot of the money sent to Africa is mainly used by the local governments to keep their country afloat and resolve civil war rather than improve the quality of a country |
| 22:50.54 | ImpyDroid | Tek0516: The "FUCK THE WEST WE HATE YOU DECADENT GAY IMPERIALIST FAGETS" category hur |
| 22:50.59 | Tek0516 | The government wants the removal of the warlords, the warlords want the removal of thr government... |
| 22:51.15 | Tek0516 | *replacement |
| 22:51.33 | Monet | Tek0516: The government see the warlords as barbaric or ruthless, the warlords see the local government as ineffective. |
| 22:51.43 | Monet | It's not exactly an easy road to peace |
| 22:51.45 | Hachiman | Yes because we can trust warlords to bring an entire continent into modern living |
| 22:51.52 | DrodoEmpire | Not saying that/ |
| 22:51.58 | Hachiman | It's not like they're *warlords* or anything like that |
| 22:52.04 | DrodoEmpire | When did we support the warlords? Where did we say that Hachi? |
| 22:52.40 | Tek0516 | What the factions in these civil wars want for peace is usually mutually exclusive. |
| 22:52.57 | Wormy_ | Even if people tried to rise up and instill democracy, even then it might not work, like we have seen in the Middle East |
| 22:53.13 | Wormy_ | Its a rock and a hard place. Corrupt government or civil unrest |
| 22:53.27 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 22:53.42 | DrodoEmpire | Its a hard problem, and it doesn't have any *one* solutio. |
| 22:53.45 | DrodoEmpire | *solution |
| 22:53.45 | Wormy_ | And Western governments don't know what to do about it imo and tell us fairy tales about hgood vs. evil |
| 22:53.50 | DrodoEmpire | It needs time. |
| 22:53.56 | DrodoEmpire | That's all that can be said |
| 22:54.23 | Tek0516 | A weak democracy is the perfect target for internal conflict and furure dictators. |
| 22:54.48 | Hachiman | Think about this; would you rather the American/United Kingdom/Canadian/whatever government, due to its corruption, be disposed of and instead live in a continent with its regional influence split between warlords and independence groups |
| 22:55.04 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: Not the entire continent is ruled by warlords, you generalise |
| 22:55.41 | Hachiman | The obvious answer is *no* so why on Earth would the African civilian population be any different |
| 22:55.50 | ImpyDroid | Not all of Africa is Somali, the more advanced countries could become the foundation for future renovations |
| 22:56.21 | Hachiman | A government that *works* is better than *no* government |
| 22:56.49 | Tek0516 | Those working with the warlords benefit from it, and hold all the local power. They want to keep those benefits and the majority of the population can't afford to rise up. |
| 22:57.01 | Monet | Unfortunately in these war-torn areas what choice do these civilians have? |
| 22:57.29 | Hachiman | Which is why we should lend support to modernised nations such as South Africa to dispose of the warlords for them |
| 22:57.52 | ImpyDroid | Could work, but again, with planning |
| 22:58.02 | Monet | How amicably connected is most of Africa? |
| 22:58.20 | ImpyDroid | You cannot just sweep Africa with bombs |
| 22:59.01 | Monet | The first actions against ISIS was bomb them fro mjets. Has it worked? Not really... |
| 22:59.29 | Wormy_ | You'd find yoursewlf inevitably arming rebel groups who might eventually use thosae weapons against you |
| 23:00.21 | Wormy_ | Or simply destabilising power so that the factions you don't want to benefit, actually benefit |
| 23:00.34 | Monet | Part of me wonders how much the governemnt of say South Africa cares how torn apart Somalia is. |
| 23:00.41 | Wormy_ | Look at how wary the UK is with the matter of Syria |
| 23:00.47 | Tek0516 | The people won't acceot foreign rule so they take a local faction and install it. From there It's all luck they don't turn on you. |
| 23:01.09 | DrodoEmpire | By sending South Africa on a campaign across Africa like their Alexander and his armies will only anger many countries and destablize the entire continent, pushing it farther away from prosperity, not closer. |
| 23:01.15 | DrodoEmpire | *they're |
| 23:02.05 | Monet | Even approaching SA in a friendly manner will be seen as imperialism |
| 23:02.11 | Tek0516 | Poor countries going to war rarely helps their own economies |
| 23:02.12 | Wormy_ | It would also cause political ripp;les across the world. How might China react, or Russia, in the face of the West forcefully modernising Africa and instilling its own proxy powers? |
| 23:02.21 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 23:02.25 | DrodoEmpire | Tek: Yeah |
| 23:02.40 | Hachiman | Then Russia or China should have done something about it |
| 23:02.43 | DrodoEmpire | For obvious reasons. :P |
| 23:02.49 | Hachiman | Instead of sitting on sidelines |
| 23:02.49 | DrodoEmpire | Hachi: Not how politics work. |
| 23:02.50 | Wormy_ | Especially China, considering its strong business in Affrica |
| 23:03.01 | Monet | Using Africa as a giant chess board to westernise it....yeah.... |
| 23:03.23 | Monet | I predict only tears. |
| 23:03.24 | Tek0516 | Monet: Europe tried that a century ago. |
| 23:03.38 | DrodoEmpire | It isn't a game of risk where its "finders-keepers". Its real people, its real consequences with all of the goals and motives that go along with them. |
| 23:03.47 | ImpyDroid | Look we would if you weren't trying to get so close to us |
| 23:04.19 | ImpyDroid | Now we're more concerned with going yandere over Ukraine |
| 23:04.35 | DrodoEmpire | Look at how the world reacted when Russia moved into Crimea. Putting any sort of political concern or anything like that aside, the west especially wasn't impressed. |
| 23:04.43 | Tek0516 | All the propaganda of the Scramble for Africa was about bringing "civilization" to it (among various similar racist versions) |
| 23:04.47 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 23:05.01 | Tek0516 | And look at what we got. |
| 23:05.43 | Monet | Trying again "because we know what to do now" won't really be an improvement. |
| 23:05.53 | Wormy_ | The best thing we as the West can do is actually spend more on humanitarian efforts, build more economic ties maybe, and hope its ideas spread to the development of nations in Africa, and that development has to be their own. It does have the resources to. |
| 23:06.22 | Hachiman | Alright, maybe forceful intervention from the West - or any other political group with a hand in Africa - is not the solution to Africa's plight but everything else outside nations have attempted with Africa thus far has not worked |
| 23:06.52 | Wormy_ | But sustaining the way it is now or using military enforcment just won't work. It doesn't work, its tried and tested and I think Europe and US are very wary now] |
| 23:06.54 | DrodoEmpire | I'd say only spend what is necessary for humanitarian aid and focus primarily on investing in African commerce and encouraging it. |
| 23:06.55 | Tek0516 | It's because you need that internal desire and ability to change. |
| 23:06.56 | Hachiman | There is only so much humanitarian aid and money we can send to Africa and we have spent much of it already |
| 23:07.12 | Wormy_ | There really isn't |
| 23:07.25 | Wormy_ | A fraction of militaryu spending could feed the world |
| 23:07.26 | DrodoEmpire | That way, sustainable economic growth may happen and Africa can again be one of the most wealthy places in the world |
| 23:07.49 | Tek0516 | A lot of that humanitarian aid is just to help people, not solve the underlying conditions. |
| 23:08.05 | Tek0516 | *help the immediate needs of people |
| 23:08.06 | Monet | Regarding Russia or China acting on Africa, I swear there was a program a year or two ago that mentioned China was exporting it's population to help develop African businesses in exchange for business with China. |
| 23:08.16 | Hachiman | Solving the underlying conditions would benefit people more significantly |
| 23:08.26 | Wormy_ | But that I think works better than trying to change the political structure, which doesn;t work so well as discussed. |
| 23:08.37 | DrodoEmpire | (And yes, Africa was once spectacularly wealthy. With the Malian, Songhai, Zulu, and Egyptian civilizations, among many others) |
| 23:09.20 | Wormy_ | It also has a great deal of mineral resources |
| 23:09.32 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 23:09.38 | Tek0516 | "Feed this dying child!" attracts a lot more funding than "develop a commercial industry to fix this country!" |
| 23:10.04 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 23:10.18 | Monet | We live in a culture of instantaneosu gratification |
| 23:10.27 | DrodoEmpire | Monet: Definitely |
| 23:10.40 | Hachiman | Yes, feed this dying child so it can die later on because the bigger and more significant problems were not solved |
| 23:10.55 | Hachiman | People need to understand that sacrifices *must* be made for any great change to occur |
| 23:11.02 | Monet | Hachiman: There's a similar public issue witrh the giant panda |
| 23:11.06 | Tek0516 | People are shortsighted though. |
| 23:11.16 | Hachiman | Exactly |
| 23:11.32 | Wormy_ | This is where I don't like Comic Relief. As soon as its over people forget and feel good |
| 23:12.01 | Hachiman | If that child survives and grows to maturity it is likely that the fate it will meet will be with one of the many regiments and guerilla groups that dominated uncivil Africa |
| 23:12.05 | Monet | A lot of ecologists are admitting that the Panda is beyond saving but the WWf keeps sending money to China because otherwise peopel will get really really mad at the WWF for letting the cute pandas (which are also the WWF's mascot) die out. |
| 23:12.09 | Hachiman | dominate even |
| 23:12.12 | DrodoEmpire | On an unrelated note, when any of you feel hungry, do you also feel the need to piss? Or am I the only one? :P |
| 23:12.30 | Hachiman | Hm |
| 23:12.34 | DrodoEmpire | I've been curious. Dunno why. |
| 23:12.41 | Hachiman | Only when I have a craving for dry food |
| 23:12.51 | DrodoEmpire | Ah, |
| 23:13.05 | ImpyDroid | Holy shit Hachi you have some imperial ambitions |
| 23:13.23 | ImpyDroid | I for one welcome our lagomorphic overlords |
| 23:13.33 | DrodoEmpire | For me, its only when I'm hungry enough that that "knot" starts developing in your belly, you know? |
| 23:13.39 | DrodoEmpire | You start to feel it. :P |
| 23:13.40 | Hachiman | ImpyDroid: How do you mean? |
| 23:13.55 | ImpyDroid | This entire discussion |
| 23:13.56 | DrodoEmpire | Speaking of which, BRB |
| 23:14.09 | Hachiman | DrodoEmpire: Yeah I know what you mean, I also tend to need a piss whenever I get thirsty too annoyingly |
| 23:14.22 | Monet | How many ideas are ignored in parliaments and in Congress because the politicians who see it are unlikely to be serving i nthe term that it actually starts having an effect? |
| 23:14.55 | Wormy_ | I haven't noticed any need for a piss when hungry, but that might be because I always need a piss due to drinking tea every hour |
| 23:18.24 | Hachiman | ImpyDroid: I would hardly consider myself an imperialist |
| 23:19.15 | Wormy_ | I have been an imaperialist |
| 23:19.32 | Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.41 | Hachiman | I am of the philosophy of teaching a man to fish rather than catching a fish for him and I hate seeing people needlessly get hurt and die because people cannot put aside their differences or because it benefits them |
| 23:19.53 | DrodoEmpire | Back |
| 23:19.58 | DrodoEmpire | Hachiman: Ah |
| 23:19.58 | Wormy_ | But my left-wingness wins out afterwards |
| 23:20.31 | Hachiman | Violence *can* end violence depending on who the victims are |
| 23:21.58 | Hachiman | Remove certain people to spare a greater number if a compromise cannot be reached, that sort of thing |
| 23:22.37 | Tek0516 | Removing people tends to make the remainder of that group more angry though. |
| 23:23.46 | Monet | These warlords do indeed have supporters. Kill one and what likelihood is there that none of them wil ldecide "I will continue my leader's legacy!" |
| 23:25.24 | Wormy_ | Civilians unfortunately get in the way |
| 23:25.39 | Wormy_ | Those drone strikes have struck civilian homes too |
| 23:26.09 | Wormy_ | Now that can generate a lot of unrest abd mistrust |
| 23:30.42 | Wormy_ | Anyone, I don't want to come off as anti-western |
| 23:30.46 | Wormy_ | *an yway |
| 23:32.08 | Monet | I wouldn't say that was anti-western |
| 23:32.15 | Monet | Just a truth of war |
| 23:32.29 | Wormy_ | I'm pro-Western on many things |
| 23:34.16 | Wormy_ | And also, I think what we are talking about involves a very unpredictable problem from which there isn't much certainty in solutions one can come up with |
| 23:37.14 | *** join/#sporewiki GD12 (427591e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.117.145.231) |
| 23:37.20 | Monet | Hello |
| 23:37.27 | Tek0516 | Hello |
| 23:37.56 | Wormy_ | hi |
| 23:38.20 | GD12 | Hi |
| 23:47.50 | *** join/#sporewiki PandaMechanicus (79de2923@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.222.41.35) |
| 23:50.21 | Hachiman | Hai Panda |
| 23:50.28 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d016b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.22.185) |
| 23:52.00 | PandaMechanicus | hai all |
| 23:52.23 | PandaMechanicus | tackle-hugs Hachi through a throng of Asari dancers |
| 23:52.45 | Hachiman | You could hurt somebody like that tho |
| 23:53.08 | PandaMechanicus | I suppose, but it's fun while you do it |
