| 00:00.01 | Mecharic | Ah |
| 00:00.03 | Mecharic | lol |
| 00:00.11 | Liquid_Ink | Take that, Odell. |
| 00:00.15 | Vincent20100 | Mecharic: Me and Tek play CK2 |
| 00:00.30 | Mecharic | I prefer Castile/Spain, but, being me, I name it "Palm" (Because f*ck historic accuracy!) |
| 00:00.37 | odell | What are you trying to imply? |
| 00:00.40 | Mecharic | Vincent20100 Awesome :P |
| 00:00.56 | Wormy_ | And thats how Rome's walls fell |
| 00:00.58 | Mecharic | What civ is ur fav Vince? |
| 00:01.03 | Mecharic | Haha |
| 00:01.47 | odell | Geezuh, I've never been this confused. |
| 00:01.54 | Vincent20100 | Georgia/Russia |
| 00:01.55 | odell | What is going on? |
| 00:02.15 | Mecharic | Beats me, I'm just goin with the flow :P |
| 00:02.18 | Vincent20100 | I started as Georgia with a custom Character I named "Joseph Stalin" ^^ |
| 00:02.38 | Mecharic | xD |
| 00:02.51 | Mecharic | I name most of my characters after anime characters I like lol |
| 00:02.59 | Vincent20100 | Renamed i KSSR (Kingdom of Soviet Socialist Republic) |
| 00:03.00 | Mecharic | Like "Mikado" or "Mikoto" |
| 00:03.07 | Mecharic | xD |
| 00:03.29 | Vincent20100 | Second favourite game as feudal Spain |
| 00:03.47 | Vincent20100 | I conquered All of the peninsula and landed all of it to my family members |
| 00:03.52 | Vincent20100 | and south France |
| 00:04.34 | odell | Anglophone people are so weird. |
| 00:04.42 | Vincent20100 | After sometime, since landed nobles almost only marry among landed nobles, two thirds of my dynasty (of around 1.500 members) had at least 1 negative genetic trait |
| 00:04.53 | odell | I just don't get you all. |
| 00:05.07 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/zZS0U9A |
| 00:05.16 | Vincent20100 | I had to revoke EVERYTHING and hold to all titles for about a hundred years |
| 00:05.28 | Vincent20100 | While literraly "purging" my dinasty |
| 00:05.58 | Vincent20100 | I have settled my danisty to be as populouis as possible,(only matrilineal mariages etc.) |
| 00:06.21 | Vincent20100 | Almost all of the Curia were composed of my family |
| 00:06.49 | Mecharic | Vincent, I don't even pay attention to the traits |
| 00:06.50 | Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/boDhoVu |
| 00:06.53 | Vincent20100 | But I revoked everything hand purged down my dynasty to about 200 members and had to re-bred positive genetic trats |
| 00:06.58 | Mecharic | I just max out the advisor power |
| 00:07.36 | Mecharic | And I'm a ruthless phsycopath, but that's beside the point xD |
| 00:07.44 | TekDroid | My latest game is a Welsh Character, I currently hold Wales, Ireland and about half of England. My daughter is also the spawn of Satan; she killed her siblings with nightmares and had her nanny jump off a roof in worship. >.> |
| 00:07.56 | Mecharic | O.O |
| 00:07.58 | Mecharic | You too? |
| 00:08.01 | Mecharic | I had one of those |
| 00:08.05 | Mecharic | wiped out my entire dynasty xD |
| 00:08.27 | Mecharic | Naturally assassination ended badly -_- |
| 00:08.49 | Vincent20100 | I my most recent game, I started as a Magyars tribe, turned Republic and conquered the Balkans and Greece |
| 00:09.05 | TekDroid | It's a special event chain with a MTTH of 500 years. You'd get it once per full pre-1066 game on average. |
| 00:09.07 | Mecharic | As it stands right now I'm slowly purging all those damn Muslim caliphates from Spain |
| 00:09.12 | TekDroid | lol |
| 00:09.13 | Vincent20100 | Rename it Balkans Popular republic |
| 00:09.18 | Mecharic | (Have no grudge against realworld muslims) |
| 00:09.31 | Vincent20100 | MTTH? |
| 00:09.37 | Mecharic | MTTH? |
| 00:09.41 | TekDroid | mean time to happen. |
| 00:09.45 | Mecharic | Ah |
| 00:09.54 | Mecharic | ... |
| 00:09.58 | Mecharic | I still don't get it xD |
| 00:10.12 | TekDroid | average time for an event to occur. |
| 00:10.21 | Vincent20100 | Slowly conquered the Mediterannean with the BPR |
| 00:10.29 | Mecharic | Hur |
| 00:10.39 | Vincent20100 | ANd I renamed it Socialist Republic of Meditera |
| 00:10.42 | Vincent20100 | ^^ |
| 00:11.13 | Vincent20100 | Republics can be really strong, once you understand that the Family Mansion is the most OP thing in the game |
| 00:11.18 | Mecharic | Well, I've been trying to bitchslap the Sunni out of Spain since about 850, it's 1133 now, so I dunno. Doin pretty well I think. |
| 00:11.38 | Mecharic | Went from a smallish kingdom to on par with France |
| 00:11.59 | Mecharic | Vince, may I ask |
| 00:12.10 | Mecharic | How he hell do you manage so many freaking vassles? |
| 00:12.14 | Mecharic | *vassels |
| 00:12.24 | Mecharic | Mine have internal wars at least once every 10 years -_- |
| 00:13.04 | Vincent20100 | I'm controlling all former Byzantines lands, Judea and the tip of Egypt (Cairo, Alexandria and Damiettea |
| 00:13.16 | Mecharic | O.o |
| 00:13.18 | Vincent20100 | Well, turn into Empire |
| 00:13.25 | Vincent20100 | And create the kingdoms |
| 00:13.28 | Mecharic | Wait, how do I do that? lol |
| 00:13.29 | Monet | That's...a lot of land |
| 00:13.43 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 00:13.55 | Vincent20100 | Socialist Republic of Meditera stronk! |
| 00:13.57 | TekDroid | You must be really pushing the vassal limits. |
| 00:14.00 | Mecharic | I SHALT MAKETH THE NEW ROMAN EMPIRE OF AWESOME! |
| 00:14.09 | Mecharic | O.O |
| 00:14.14 | Mecharic | That.. is a great name. |
| 00:14.20 | Vincent20100 | Well, Mech, conquer 90% of a de jure Empire |
| 00:14.24 | Vincent20100 | and you can create it |
| 00:14.24 | Mecharic | The "New Roman Empire of Awesome" |
| 00:14.26 | TekDroid | *80% |
| 00:14.29 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 00:14.33 | Mecharic | Ah |
| 00:14.42 | Mecharic | I'm at like, 60% of Hispania |
| 00:14.43 | Vincent20100 | And then, create Kingdom titles and give them aways |
| 00:14.49 | Mecharic | Eew |
| 00:14.56 | Vincent20100 | Empires can have King vassals |
| 00:15.04 | Mecharic | Oh after I make empire haha |
| 00:15.13 | Vincent20100 | Yah dah -_- |
| 00:15.34 | Vincent20100 | Empires for Republic are Principalities |
| 00:15.37 | TekDroid | Vassal limits make European empire of only counts impossible. :P |
| 00:15.46 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 00:16.11 | Vincent20100 | Another advantage of King vassals, is that you can raise all of their troops simultaniously, anywhwere in their land ^^ |
| 00:16.19 | Mecharic | SCREW THE RULES! -installs mod- |
| 00:16.20 | Vincent20100 | Good to fend off the freaking Vikings... |
| 00:16.28 | Mecharic | GOD |
| 00:16.36 | Mecharic | I hate those damnable vikings |
| 00:16.41 | Vincent20100 | Seriously, it's both necessary AND advantageous to have King vassals |
| 00:16.48 | *** part/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:2:4281:12f0:65d4:997f:439:c31) |
| 00:16.52 | Mecharic | I'm going to conquer Scandavia just to get them to bgger off. |
| 00:17.00 | TekDroid | You can convert vikings peacefully after 930 if you want. |
| 00:17.02 | Vincent20100 | I'm rulling my Principality from Cyrpus ^^ |
| 00:17.18 | Vincent20100 | I converted to Catholicism |
| 00:17.40 | Vincent20100 | And switched to Cathar heresy |
| 00:17.51 | TekDroid | Send your Court Chaplin to Prosteylze in their capital. You entire convert them or your Chaplin gets thrown in prison. |
| 00:17.55 | Vincent20100 | Because I like the "women-equal" thing of it ^^ |
| 00:18.01 | TekDroid | *either |
| 00:18.12 | Vincent20100 | Their is a trick for that Tek |
| 00:18.14 | Mecharic | Screw peace |
| 00:18.17 | Vincent20100 | Send gifts first |
| 00:18.26 | Mecharic | I wanna murder their people and burn their cities |
| 00:18.31 | Vincent20100 | The higher the relation of the ruler to you, the most likely he will convert |
| 00:18.35 | TekDroid | Only after 930 though, they always reject before that. |
| 00:19.02 | Mecharic | I wouldn't mind if they only raided the edges of my empire (captial in in the center) but they just waltze in and go for everything -_- |
| 00:19.02 | Vincent20100 | So, converted to catholic, then Cathar, but I got holy wared by Catholics -_- |
| 00:19.10 | Mecharic | haha |
| 00:19.16 | Vincent20100 | So I converted back to Catholic |
| 00:19.27 | Vincent20100 | And I re-converted to Fraticelli |
| 00:19.41 | Mecharic | xD |
| 00:19.41 | Vincent20100 | Fraticelli and Cathar are the two best heresies ^^ |
| 00:19.50 | Mecharic | You just keep jumping from religion to religion eh? |
| 00:20.00 | Vincent20100 | Fraticelli is the only heresy that also has papacy system |
| 00:20.06 | Mecharic | Also, how do I see how close I am to reaching my 80% goal? |
| 00:20.18 | Vincent20100 | Go see the title creation tab |
| 00:20.23 | TekDroid | There's another with Papacy actually. |
| 00:20.35 | Vincent20100 | Who? |
| 00:20.52 | Vincent20100 | Now my goal is to overthrow the Catholic papacy and install the Fraticelli Papacy |
| 00:20.58 | Mecharic | Vince, I don't even see "Empire of Hispania" in my list :/ |
| 00:21.11 | Vincent20100 | Open the search tab and type it |
| 00:21.17 | Monet | Incent20100: You really like the USSR :P |
| 00:21.21 | Vincent20100 | YAh |
| 00:21.27 | Mecharic | I do have the ability to make 5 kingdoms tehehe |
| 00:21.45 | Vincent20100 | That's a bad idea to have more than 1 kingdom until you are emperor |
| 00:21.59 | TekDroid | You can't hold more than two personally without relations penalties toom |
| 00:22.08 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 00:22.37 | Vincent20100 | I will probably stop my conquest on that note (except maybe Sicilia and other Mediterannean islands |
| 00:22.47 | Vincent20100 | Because I wanna convert it to EU4 |
| 00:23.25 | TekDroid | grr... playing Vicky 2 and every time the tension on my cores gets high they use an event to get rid of most of it. |
| 00:23.56 | Vincent20100 | I will spend the rest of the game installing my dynastie in power in foreign land, making Fraticelli Papacy and fighting off the mongols |
| 00:24.25 | Mecharic | Is it possible to conquer the entire map? |
| 00:24.26 | Vincent20100 | And probably ally myself to a Russian lord and fight in his name to make Russian Empire ^^ |
| 00:24.29 | Vincent20100 | YAh |
| 00:24.32 | Vincent20100 | Easily |
| 00:24.33 | Mecharic | Tehehe |
| 00:24.36 | Mecharic | That's my goal |
| 00:24.40 | Mecharic | Absolute Power. |
| 00:24.50 | Vincent20100 | CK2 is the Paradox game where you can the most easily acheive this |
| 00:24.57 | Mecharic | lol |
| 00:25.04 | Mecharic | "easily" he says |
| 00:25.08 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 00:25.12 | Mecharic | as if conquering dozens of nations is eas |
| 00:25.14 | Mecharic | easy* |
| 00:25.22 | Vincent20100 | It's mostly time-consuming |
| 00:25.28 | Mecharic | especially when they f*cking call in all their f*cking "allies" -_- |
| 00:25.36 | Mecharic | I really hate those Sunni bastards lol |
| 00:25.41 | Vincent20100 | Start off as the Tengri |
| 00:25.55 | Vincent20100 | Or the Byzantine Emperor |
| 00:26.11 | Mecharic | -declares war on a pussy as Caliphate with 2 counties- -is suddenly at war with most of the entire southern half of the map- |
| 00:26.21 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 00:26.24 | Vincent20100 | That can happen |
| 00:26.27 | Mecharic | -shakes head slowly- |
| 00:26.31 | Mecharic | It always happens |
| 00:26.32 | Mecharic | lol |
| 00:26.38 | Mecharic | I went to war against the Umyyad |
| 00:26.40 | Vincent20100 | Musulims are pretty weak that said |
| 00:26.43 | AdmiralPanda | that's because you're dum and didn't check their allies |
| 00:26.48 | Monet | First thing one should do as Byzantine EMperor: Sort out your own country. |
| 00:26.51 | TekDroid | CKII is probably the longest one in a megacampaign. Apparently EUIV is boring in megacampaigns. And you definitely need to tweak saves and mod your game by the time you hit Victoria 2. |
| 00:26.52 | Mecharic | And then ended up utterly crushed by literally EVERYONE |
| 00:27.02 | Mecharic | Not even kidding |
| 00:27.02 | Vincent20100 | They usually end off technologically backward and destroyed by decadency |
| 00:27.18 | Mecharic | Some ass showed up from near Byzantine with 15k soldiers |
| 00:27.25 | Vincent20100 | TekDroid: That's why I will stop my conquest here |
| 00:27.27 | Mecharic | and I was like "really? No, really?" |
| 00:27.40 | Vincent20100 | And help Russians and French to blob out |
| 00:27.47 | Mecharic | lol |
| 00:27.50 | Mecharic | I did |
| 00:27.53 | Monet | Vincent20100: Then in come the Ottoman Trks? |
| 00:27.54 | Mecharic | Then they won't help me |
| 00:27.55 | Vincent20100 | So I will ahve competition |
| 00:27.55 | Monet | Turks* |
| 00:28.08 | Vincent20100 | They usually don't come |
| 00:28.15 | Vincent20100 | It's the Seljuk who appear |
| 00:28.30 | Vincent20100 | I will also fight off the Mongolian hordes |
| 00:28.47 | TekDroid | I want to try and get into Hearts of Iron but the good beginner factions are either out of the way or Nazi Germany. >.> |
| 00:28.47 | Mecharic | Now wait |
| 00:28.55 | Vincent20100 | And install my dynastie members in power through all the globe |
| 00:29.01 | Mecharic | How do I see my own empire creation thing again? |
| 00:29.09 | Vincent20100 | TekDroid: Try the USA |
| 00:29.22 | Vincent20100 | Open the search tab and type it |
| 00:29.30 | Mecharic | How do I open the search tab? |
| 00:29.31 | Vincent20100 | USA are pretty good for beginners |
| 00:29.38 | Mecharic | (This is only my 2nd week lol) |
| 00:29.42 | Vincent20100 | Not sure, it depend of your key config |
| 00:29.45 | Mecharic | xD |
| 00:29.59 | Vincent20100 | http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Hispania HEre |
| 00:30.05 | Vincent20100 | That should help you |
| 00:30.09 | TekDroid | There's a search box in the lower right. |
| 00:30.20 | Vincent20100 | So yah, I will spend the rest of the game spreadinbg my dynastie too |
| 00:30.20 | TekDroid | beb |
| 00:30.23 | TekDroid | *brb |
| 00:30.42 | Vincent20100 | and spreading Fraticelli until I vainquish Catholics |
| 00:30.56 | Mecharic | Damnit I need 18 more counties |
| 00:31.04 | Vincent20100 | I already converted the Magyars |
| 00:31.12 | Vincent20100 | And most of the Slavics |
| 00:31.20 | Mecharic | I already have 4 different kingdom titles that I can make, and 1 outside of Hispania |
| 00:31.44 | Vincent20100 | I'm gonna try the Scandinavians too |
| 00:32.13 | Mecharic | Kill them for me, would you? |
| 00:32.15 | Mecharic | lol |
| 00:32.20 | Vincent20100 | I already have one of my dynasty ruling Rus ^^ |
| 00:32.51 | Mecharic | Welp, class is over, gtg, cya :) |
| 00:33.00 | Vincent20100 | With my help, they are almost ready to form Russia |
| 00:33.04 | Vincent20100 | ++ |
| 00:33.47 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.95.179) |
| 00:33.55 | Vincent20100 | I already have one of my dynasty ruling Rus ^^ |
| 00:34.00 | Monet | I may be of the opposite opinion. |
| 00:34.02 | Vincent20100 | With my help, they are almost ready to form Russia |
| 00:34.41 | Monet | As progressive as the USSR was, my undertanding was it tried to become a supreme power in a way that became outdated after World War II |
| 00:35.05 | TekDroid | ^ |
| 00:35.38 | Vincent20100 | Honestly, as harsh as they were, the USSR was the only alternative to the world corrputing USA power |
| 00:36.26 | Vincent20100 | And when you consider all the bravery it required to step up, vainquish the tsar and have the courage to try what nobody else before had ever tried, that deserve admiration |
| 00:36.26 | Monet | Well we have the EU now. |
| 00:36.32 | Vincent20100 | -_- |
| 00:36.57 | Vincent20100 | Yah, we saw all the might the "Glorious Mighty EU" was during the Ukrainian crisis... |
| 00:37.41 | Monet | ...also didn't France overthrow it's kings and aristocracy and attempt to become a nation of the people? |
| 00:37.48 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 00:37.59 | Vincent20100 | They too deserve admiration |
| 00:38.03 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.80.164) |
| 00:38.49 | TekDroid | "Glorious Might EU" didn't want to both be hypocrites and start WWIII. >.> |
| 00:39.43 | Monet | Admittedly part of the reason was that we were a little intimidated by Russia. |
| 00:39.46 | Vincent20100 | Yah, that surely took a lot of courage to send all of this toilet paper called "condamnations" to Putin ^^ |
| 00:40.18 | TekDroid | And the Russian economy is hardly unscathed. |
| 00:40.21 | Monet | I do wonder though. If the EU tried to stand up to Russia, is it possible that could have been an incentive for the US to run on in? |
| 00:40.25 | Vincent20100 | And it's ok, they are actually fritghtning |
| 00:40.41 | Vincent20100 | Maybe |
| 00:40.57 | Vincent20100 | We'll probably never know |
| 00:41.15 | Monet | That's probably a more valid reason than Russia looking scary: It would have given the US an incentive to declare war. |
| 00:41.45 | Vincent20100 | It also probably because of all the gas of petroleum EU is consuming from Russia... |
| 00:41.50 | Vincent20100 | *and |
| 00:42.42 | Vincent20100 | Wouldn't want to cut off our luxurious way of life for some Ukrainian lifes after all... |
| 00:43.01 | Monet | SO in a way, we're not scared of Russia, we're scared of whose chain would be broken when we start taking military action. |
| 00:43.14 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 00:43.33 | TekDroid | Russia is a precarious peak of power and stability that while it lasts has the potential to spark massive and devastating world conflict. |
| 00:43.40 | Vincent20100 | You're also too scared to have to cut the luxurious style of life we have for that |
| 00:43.49 | Monet | Actually that's not the chain I meant |
| 00:44.13 | Monet | Since the EU has financial access to Arabian oil deposits. |
| 00:44.16 | Vincent20100 | And don't get me wrong, this is also against Canada |
| 00:44.47 | Vincent20100 | Let's not hide our head in the ground |
| 00:45.43 | Monet | Tek's right. Russia's at a precarious peak not helped by the start-of-year drop in crude oil prices. |
| 00:45.54 | Vincent20100 | If the EU start to rely more on Arabian petroleum, it would cause a big prices raise |
| 00:46.13 | Vincent20100 | Which is totally out of question |
| 00:46.14 | TekDroid | There's hiding and then there's not wanting to start WWIII. |
| 00:46.15 | Wormy_ | bye |
| 00:46.35 | Vincent20100 | True, but in this situation, it's mostly hiding |
| 00:46.50 | Monet | uhh...no |
| 00:47.00 | Vincent20100 | Truth is, we don't care, nor do we want |
| 00:47.19 | Vincent20100 | I mean, ask people in the street about Ukrainian Crisis |
| 00:47.30 | Vincent20100 | Most of them don't even know where is Ukraine |
| 00:47.35 | Monet | Also there's another source that was the cause of said price drop: Shale gas from the US |
| 00:48.16 | TekDroid | And oil sands here in Canada. |
| 00:49.49 | Vincent20100 | True, but the moment you cut off a supply of something from somewhere, you have to equalize it with more supplies from somewhere else (at the same price whatsoever) to rebalance the prices |
| 00:50.21 | Monet | As I said the thing Europe is concerned about is not Russia's might, it's the US military charging at Russia like an exited dog once it gets a credible reason for war - which will be standing up for the EU's efforts. |
| 00:50.46 | TekDroid | ^^^ |
| 00:50.55 | Vincent20100 | Nah, the US are hands tied |
| 00:51.06 | TekDroid | How? |
| 00:51.07 | Vincent20100 | The Senate would never allow such an intervention |
| 00:51.18 | TekDroid | *chuckle* |
| 00:51.23 | Vincent20100 | Nor would their Chinese friends |
| 00:51.26 | Monet | The Senate. |
| 00:51.48 | Monet | The Senate populated mostly by politicians who grew up during the Cold War. |
| 00:52.01 | Vincent20100 | The US lost wars against thrid world countries, they will not go after Russia |
| 00:52.21 | TekDroid | Cold War-era politicians and a massive arms industry. |
| 00:52.56 | *** join/#sporewiki Knight_Alien (62cebba2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.206.187.162) |
| 00:52.57 | Knight_Alien | Hello |
| 00:53.00 | Vincent20100 | Then again, our gentle Chineses friends would neither allow such a thing |
| 00:53.03 | Monet | Hello |
| 00:53.25 | Monet | Actually there's a question: What would China do? |
| 00:53.42 | Monet | Right now they rely on American money. |
| 00:53.46 | Vincent20100 | True |
| 00:53.56 | Vincent20100 | But who has the big end of the stick here? |
| 00:54.02 | Vincent20100 | China or USA? |
| 00:54.05 | TekDroid | China tries to stop US and both their economies implode. |
| 00:54.07 | Monet | But Russia as a communist utopia has been dead for 20 years. |
| 00:54.15 | Vincent20100 | Let me ask it this way... |
| 00:54.27 | Vincent20100 | Who has access to the resources? |
| 00:54.37 | Vincent20100 | Who has access to the industry and the cheap labour? |
| 00:54.40 | TekDroid | Any "communist" states have long been in name only. |
| 00:54.50 | TekDroid | *remaining |
| 00:54.58 | Vincent20100 | There is still Cuba :) |
| 00:55.07 | Monet | CHina may have a bigger military but it's pretty dependant on American, African and European imports. |
| 00:55.35 | Vincent20100 | Out of these 3 import sources, almost only Africa is necessary |
| 00:55.54 | TekDroid | ...really? |
| 00:56.02 | Vincent20100 | Let's not forget China also has more political-economic liberty that the USA don't hav |
| 00:56.17 | Vincent20100 | What do they import from Africa? Resources (natural) |
| 00:56.34 | Monet | The Chinese economy in fact is beginnign to suffer right now duel to the dual-circumstances of a new domestic middle class and losing business to India as a source of cheap manufacturing. |
| 00:56.38 | Vincent20100 | What do they import from EU#USA? Technology mostly` |
| 00:57.18 | Vincent20100 | One of these import source isn't necessary, which one do you guess? |
| 00:57.35 | Monet | The EU/USA happens to buy a lot of their crap. If they pull out and side with Russia, they lose business ot half the frikkin' world. |
| 00:58.10 | Vincent20100 | True, but their is something very important to not forget, money isn't a resources |
| 00:58.23 | Vincent20100 | It's a.... "custodomy". |
| 00:58.36 | Vincent20100 | Do you eat money? Of course not |
| 00:58.43 | Vincent20100 | You eat the food money buys |
| 00:59.13 | Vincent20100 | And that's where China is really stronger than the USA |
| 00:59.22 | Vincent20100 | They don't need money |
| 00:59.41 | Vincent20100 | They can more or less "force" their people to work |
| 00:59.51 | Vincent20100 | While that is not possible in the West |
| 00:59.55 | TekDroid | http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China US makes up 20% of it's trade. Even other Asian countries don't come close. |
| 01:00.26 | TekDroid | forced work doesn't necessarily mean more work |
| 01:00.31 | Monet | I do wonder sometimes if China is becoming a gradualyl mroe severe pressure-tank. |
| 01:00.43 | Vincent20100 | No, but forced work still provides REAL resources |
| 01:00.58 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.80.164) |
| 01:01.04 | Vincent20100 | No, but forced work still provides REAL resources |
| 01:01.18 | Vincent20100 | While money is still not a real resources |
| 01:01.24 | Monet | What wil lthese newly-minted middle classes do in the crash? |
| 01:01.38 | Vincent20100 | That my friends, are the very basis of capitalism vs Mercantilism |
| 01:01.54 | Monet | Give up their newly-aquired wealth and the chance to finally live the American Dream for the sake of the state? |
| 01:02.15 | Vincent20100 | In Mercantilism, money is more important then the resources it can buy |
| 01:02.44 | Vincent20100 | While one of the basis of capitalism is that Resources (or resources access) are more important than money (or gold) |
| 01:03.04 | Monet | Money is important because it is a potentially universal exchange medium |
| 01:03.10 | TekDroid | ^ |
| 01:03.15 | Vincent20100 | At the point of a gun, you can give up you whole life if necessary |
| 01:03.22 | Vincent20100 | Yah |
| 01:03.31 | Vincent20100 | But it is not as important as resources |
| 01:03.40 | Monet | But it's more flexible to exhange |
| 01:04.11 | TekDroid | Everything is defined in money. You can control all you want but if its worthless you gain nothing. |
| 01:04.11 | Vincent20100 | During general hunger in a country, what is more valuable, money, or the food money could buy? |
| 01:04.58 | Vincent20100 | tDear lord, fuortunatly my eco teacher isn't here, he would probably be crying |
| 01:05.24 | TekDroid | In either case you still need money to buy food. The food you can use but you still need the ratio for both. |
| 01:05.25 | Monet | I'm currently working to become an artist. Thus I make art for a living. |
| 01:05.48 | *** join/#sporewiki Vincent20100_ (b8a1360d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.161.54.13) |
| 01:06.08 | Vincent20100_ | Dear lord, fortunatly my econo teachers aren't here... Would be crying |
| 01:06.22 | Monet | In a barter economy, I would have to rely on trading my pictures for food, water, electricity, all those nice things. |
| 01:06.58 | Monet | Which means I'd be paying my grocer by giving him a painting every week. He might not need that many paintings. |
| 01:07.04 | Vincent20100_ | And that's why money is a "media" (or a "comodity") |
| 01:07.24 | Vincent20100_ | It's a way to simplify things, but unsimplified things would still work |
| 01:07.28 | Monet | Yeah. And why it's come to be used to measure the value of *everything* |
| 01:07.52 | Vincent20100_ | Wait a sec |
| 01:08.15 | Vincent20100_ | Do not confuse mercantilism, capitalism (as the opposite of mercantilism) and bartering |
| 01:08.42 | Monet | What do you suggest instead of a currency-based economy then? |
| 01:08.50 | Vincent20100_ | None of these are synonyms to the other |
| 01:08.51 | TekDroid | I'm not sure I'm getting your point with all of this. |
| 01:09.39 | Vincent20100_ | Right now guys, you are in a mercantilist logic, where gold (or money, change nothing really) is more important than resources |
| 01:10.22 | Vincent20100_ | And that is what Adams Smith explain in Wealth of Nations, that money is far less important than resources (or access to them) |
| 01:10.40 | Monet | I like Karl Marx's idea of socialism and the idea that the endgoal of society is to become a unified people with no identification of statehood, nationality or ocial class. But realistically such a thing requires every single human on the planet to accept it. |
| 01:10.49 | Vincent20100_ | The best example of that is the UK during the Napoleonic wars |
| 01:11.24 | Vincent20100_ | During the Napleonic wars, UK was bockaded and denied access to resources, even though it had gold and silver to offer |
| 01:11.54 | TekDroid | UK had a lot more that precious metals. |
| 01:11.56 | Monet | I think the emergence of proper socialism is still a while away. |
| 01:11.57 | Vincent20100_ | This isn't really related to Marx. Yet... |
| 01:12.27 | Vincent20100_ | Yah, but were ready to exchange their money and their precious metal for resources |
| 01:12.41 | Vincent20100_ | Yet, because of the blockade, they were denied |
| 01:13.24 | Vincent20100_ | It was still gold and silver, yet it was pretty worthless on the internationnal market, since nobady had access to it |
| 01:13.31 | TekDroid | They still had all their resources and the naval power to deny others their imported resources. And the system fauled because of it. |
| 01:13.34 | Vincent20100_ | *nobody |
| 01:14.00 | TekDroid | ...Europe has gold and silver in it. |
| 01:14.30 | TekDroid | Access to precious metals had nothing to do with the continental system. |
| 01:14.58 | Vincent20100_ | Tek, it wasn't the UK denying others it's products, it was the UK who was denied the other's product |
| 01:15.05 | Monet | I think the USSR was trying to reach the endgame too quickly. |
| 01:15.51 | Vincent20100_ | Seriously, read Wealth of Nations, it all well explained |
| 01:16.04 | Vincent20100_ | And it isn't wrote by a commie, far from it |
| 01:16.09 | TekDroid | The continental system was purely about blocking the import of British goods. |
| 01:16.36 | Vincent20100_ | Yah |
| 01:16.39 | Monet | TekDroid: England was still capable of trading with India and CHina at the time wasn't it? |
| 01:16.46 | TekDroid | Indeed. |
| 01:16.56 | Vincent20100_ | A bit, but far from enough to meet it's demand |
| 01:17.53 | Vincent20100_ | The continental system also prevented UK from exporting to the rest of Europe |
| 01:18.04 | Vincent20100_ | And that is a very important part |
| 01:18.47 | Monet | Blockades and banning arent' perfect |
| 01:18.52 | Vincent20100_ | YAh |
| 01:19.01 | Vincent20100_ | But it still hurt the UK pretty badly |
| 01:19.06 | Monet | I'm sure there was still *some* importing going on |
| 01:19.18 | Vincent20100_ | True, but it drastically dropped |
| 01:19.21 | TekDroid | Lots of smuggling. |
| 01:19.34 | Vincent20100_ | YAH! |
| 01:19.45 | Vincent20100_ | Why were they smugling?!?!?!??! |
| 01:19.51 | TekDroid | It hurt UK but it hurt Europe drastically more, which is why Russia revolted and Napoleon's empire collapsed. |
| 01:20.11 | Vincent20100_ | Because they prefered to have resources to live rather than money in pocket |
| 01:20.23 | Monet | Make something illegal and all you do is spike the demand. |
| 01:20.48 | Vincent20100_ | They prefered to have the resources over the money, no matter the cost |
| 01:21.14 | Monet | And Britain exploited that to high-heaven |
| 01:21.30 | Vincent20100_ | True |
| 01:21.37 | TekDroid | The Europeans also greatly desired the resources now in short supply |
| 01:21.46 | Vincent20100_ | EXACTLY! |
| 01:21.54 | Vincent20100_ | And they were ready to pay fortunes! |
| 01:22.32 | TekDroid | I'm still not sure what this has to do with your point. |
| 01:22.43 | Vincent20100_ | Because money is not a resources, contrary to what mercantilist prone |
| 01:23.00 | Vincent20100_ | The point is, that it's partly why China is strong |
| 01:23.08 | Vincent20100_ | Because it has access to resources |
| 01:23.30 | Monet | Like cheap labour and rare earth metals? |
| 01:23.34 | Vincent20100_ | BTW labour and manpower can also be considered as resources |
| 01:23.41 | Vincent20100_ | Like these |
| 01:24.20 | Monet | The US and Europe provide larger markets than Russia would. |
| 01:24.52 | Vincent20100_ | True, but is the question of, WHAT does Europe/US provide to China |
| 01:24.53 | Monet | For one a lot of American companies buy goods made in Chinese factories to sell in commercial branches across the globe. |
| 01:25.10 | Vincent20100_ | In opposition to WHAT does China provides EU and USA |
| 01:25.55 | AdmiralPanda | basically Vincent is arguing that China's strength comes from abundance of raw resources which could theoretically allow it to sustain itself in a condition where it is cut off from trade with the rest of the world |
| 01:26.02 | Vincent20100_ | Obviously, China provides basic items useful for everyday life, that are critical to USA/EU |
| 01:26.22 | Vincent20100_ | More or less, yah |
| 01:26.28 | AdmiralPanda | China isn't their only supplier, just their cheapest |
| 01:26.41 | AdmiralPanda | if China stops trading the USA and EU will just go to India at a slightly higher price |
| 01:26.55 | Vincent20100_ | Cheapest sounds like Best, especially in economic science |
| 01:26.58 | Monet | From what I hear they already are starting to do that. |
| 01:27.07 | *** join/#sporewiki Suppy (43b74972@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.183.73.114) |
| 01:27.25 | Monet | India's becoming a rising star in the global economy. |
| 01:27.29 | Vincent20100_ | EU/USA need China and Russia more than Russia and China needs USA/EU |
| 01:27.40 | Suppy | wat |
| 01:27.54 | Suppy | What do USA/EU need China and Russia for? |
| 01:27.56 | AdmiralPanda | though the funny thing is, China exports a LOT of essential materials from Australia |
| 01:28.06 | AdmiralPanda | iron and food specifically |
| 01:28.24 | Suppy | I'm not sure about that |
| 01:28.37 | Suppy | US steel is so good because we just constantly recylce our old war steel |
| 01:28.43 | Vincent20100_ | Suppy: Ask the question the other way around, what does China and Russia needs so much from USA/EU? |
| 01:28.51 | Suppy | China needs export markets |
| 01:28.54 | Suppy | Desperately |
| 01:28.56 | Vincent20100_ | US steel? |
| 01:28.59 | Suppy | They're already sitting on a currency bubble |
| 01:29.00 | AdmiralPanda | china's biggest two imports are crude oil and iron ore, the former they can get from Russia but the latter they NEED from Austrlaia |
| 01:29.20 | Vincent20100_ | No no no , I'm not explaining again why money is worthless compared to resources, sorry |
| 01:29.38 | Vincent20100_ | Iron? Russia has that too |
| 01:29.57 | Monet | Money is the lubricant of an effective economy. |
| 01:30.04 | Vincent20100_ | Money is a tool |
| 01:30.07 | AdmiralPanda | not as much as Australia has, or in as available quantities |
| 01:30.08 | Suppy | Russia needs an oil/gas market, and somewhat of an agriculture market |
| 01:30.20 | AdmiralPanda | anyway, money is simply a value. That value is applied to everything to allow resource exchange |
| 01:30.32 | Vincent20100_ | Suppy, sorry, but you are too late for the convo, we already settled those points earlier |
| 01:30.37 | Suppy | aight |
| 01:30.39 | Vincent20100_ | Nest time, ok? :) |
| 01:30.46 | Vincent20100_ | *Next |
| 01:30.47 | Suppy | Alrighty then |
| 01:30.54 | Suppy | Just let me know when I can argue about geopolitics and economics |
| 01:31.02 | Vincent20100_ | I just spent about an hour explaining that... |
| 01:31.17 | AdmiralPanda | heh, last year China's second biggest import was circuit components |
| 01:31.17 | Vincent20100_ | Money is a tool |
| 01:31.32 | Vincent20100_ | And tools can replaced |
| 01:31.39 | Monet | WIth what though? |
| 01:31.49 | Vincent20100_ | Yes, tools are useful, but most tools can be replaced |
| 01:32.01 | Suppy | Tools can be replaced, but it puts a lot of strain on the system. It's harder and harder to toy with money on a large scale like that the more and more our economies grow to become virtual and financial |
| 01:32.06 | AdmiralPanda | Vincent: Ok, what would you replace a standardised value of all resources with? |
| 01:32.21 | Vincent20100_ | I'm not saying money isn't usefull, it is |
| 01:32.23 | AdmiralPanda | because that's the origin of money |
| 01:32.29 | TekDroid | Money is a means of exchange. You can replace the exchange medium with another but the only alternative is barter. |
| 01:32.39 | Vincent20100_ | I'm saying that if you have to choose between money OR the resources money could buy |
| 01:32.45 | Vincent20100_ | Go for the resources, always |
| 01:32.58 | AdmiralPanda | money isn't a tangible thing, it never has been- it's a value |
| 01:33.02 | Monet | Bartering is reliant on you having something the other party wants. |
| 01:33.04 | Suppy | Well, I think framing it as a choice like that is a bit odd |
| 01:33.05 | Vincent20100_ | Exactly |
| 01:33.07 | AdmiralPanda | resources inherently have a money value |
| 01:33.10 | Suppy | Money is just a way of trading resources |
| 01:33.11 | DrodoEmpire | Monet: Yeah |
| 01:33.20 | Vincent20100_ | Exactly Suppy! |
| 01:33.31 | Vincent20100_ | Admiral, no |
| 01:33.43 | Suppy | Nothing has inherent value |
| 01:33.47 | Vincent20100_ | That is one of the very first thing we learn in economy classes |
| 01:33.55 | Vincent20100_ | ^Suppy |
| 01:33.56 | Suppy | There is only supply and demand |
| 01:34.01 | Vincent20100_ | Exactly |
| 01:34.16 | Vincent20100_ | You can never ever put a fix value on a resources |
| 01:34.25 | Vincent20100_ | BUT |
| 01:34.36 | Vincent20100_ | You can always use a resources for the uses it has |
| 01:34.37 | AdmiralPanda | from a societal viewpoint, money was created to give everything a value which could be used for trade. That value can change, but everything HAS value |
| 01:35.02 | Vincent20100_ | The value of money is mostly based on the trust people put in it |
| 01:35.12 | Vincent20100_ | And that, can crash at any points |
| 01:35.37 | Suppy | Money was not created to give value |
| 01:35.47 | Suppy | It was to provide something that always had some level of value relative to resources |
| 01:36.04 | Suppy | A ton of pig iron is worth a ton of pig iron, always |
| 01:36.15 | Vincent20100_ | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 01:36.17 | Vincent20100_ | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 01:36.20 | Vincent20100_ | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 01:36.23 | Suppy | But a railroad company won't trade apples and cows back and forth to get that pig iron |
| 01:36.25 | Vincent20100_ | Thank you! |
| 01:36.27 | Suppy | Money is just a middleman |
| 01:36.29 | Monet | And what is a grocer supposed to do with a ton of pig iron if that's all I can give him? |
| 01:36.37 | Suppy | The grocer uses the currency intermediary |
| 01:36.47 | Suppy | Which itself is imparted to have its own special market value |
| 01:36.57 | Vincent20100_ | Cambism.... |
| 01:37.07 | Monet | So in other words, we use money because it's a much easier system. |
| 01:37.08 | Vincent20100_ | The Trading of Money Values |
| 01:37.15 | Vincent20100_ | Yah |
| 01:37.17 | Vincent20100_ | Easier |
| 01:37.19 | Suppy | Money is the most efficient way of doing stuff |
| 01:37.22 | Vincent20100_ | But NOT necessary |
| 01:37.29 | DrodoEmpire | Vincent: Well nowadays it is trust but it used it be backed by stuff but isn't anymore. :P Doesn't matter. All that does matter is that people trust the currency and keep using it as a medium of exchange to obtain resources. We've been doing it for millenia, don't see the problem |
| 01:37.34 | Vincent20100_ | You can survive without money |
| 01:37.41 | Monet | Efficiency is how a social system runs smoothly. With ANY system |
| 01:37.42 | DrodoEmpire | Vincent: But why should you if its efficient? |
| 01:37.43 | Vincent20100_ | But you can't survive without food |
| 01:37.58 | Suppy | Fiat currencies are a necessity, I would say. Pegging it to gold or silver would be deadly in a virtual economy |
| 01:38.08 | DrodoEmpire | So? I can't get food from the grocer when all I do is mine copper, and he doesn't want my copper. |
| 01:38.10 | Vincent20100_ | Because there other systems that have not yet been tried Drod, but that is another discussion |
| 01:38.23 | DrodoEmpire | What other systems though? |
| 01:38.41 | Vincent20100_ | Can we talk of that another day? Let's focus a bit |
| 01:39.07 | DrodoEmpire | If I'm reading this correctly we've changed subjects several times. What'll another subject shift do? |
| 01:39.18 | Suppy | I have an idea |
| 01:39.20 | DrodoEmpire | Unless you're drawing a blank and would rather not admit that. :P |
| 01:39.26 | Suppy | Why the post-scarcity economy concepts are pipe dreams |
| 01:39.35 | Suppy | Because they treat "thing creators" not as commodities themselves |
| 01:39.37 | Vincent20100_ | [20:37] <DrodoEmpire> Vincent: Well nowadays it is trust but it used it be backed by stuff but isn't anymore. |
| 01:39.43 | Vincent20100_ | Actually it wasn't |
| 01:39.51 | Vincent20100_ | It's very funny story... |
| 01:39.57 | Monet | Suppy: Ooh! Ooh! |
| 01:40.01 | DrodoEmpire | It was backed by resources. I can't say how reliable or effective it was, but meh |
| 01:40.08 | Suppy | It was reliable |
| 01:40.08 | Vincent20100_ | It was backed by gold |
| 01:40.11 | Suppy | But it would strangle growth |
| 01:40.17 | Vincent20100_ | Gold stocked into a jewelers vault |
| 01:40.20 | Suppy | Because two reasons |
| 01:40.24 | Vincent20100_ | But yah... |
| 01:40.38 | Suppy | 1. You can't undertake QE programs or play with your currency when it's pegged to a commodity |
| 01:40.42 | Vincent20100_ | There was rarely enough gold in the vault for the amount of money there was |
| 01:40.55 | Suppy | Like, Japan is inflating their currency to stimulate im/ex |
| 01:41.00 | Suppy | Couldn't do that on a gold currency |
| 01:41.09 | Vincent20100_ | Most of the ancient money where there for based on gold, that did not existed |
| 01:41.10 | Monet | Suppy: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Beyond_Currency:_The_Post_Scarcity_Society I wrote this not too long ago |
| 01:41.14 | Suppy | 2. Virtual economies, especially ones so virtual as our global one, are hard to reconcile with solid stuff |
| 01:41.35 | Vincent20100_ | ^And that is one of our big flaws if you ask me |
| 01:42.32 | Monet | That's an inherent trait in a large, deeply-embedded system |
| 01:42.42 | Suppy | Exactly |
| 01:42.49 | Suppy | Which is why a gold based currency is like the horse carriage: |
| 01:42.50 | Suppy | A novelty |
| 01:42.55 | Vincent20100_ | Just to come back to the Chine/EU/Russia thing, that is why EU/USA need more China and Russia than the other way around, because China and Russia are supplying more real ressources than moneym, while EU/USA are mostly supplying money rather than real resources |
| 01:43.14 | Suppy | Now that, Vincent, I disagree with you on |
| 01:43.23 | Suppy | USA imports goods from China because it is cheaper |
| 01:43.26 | Suppy | But if this option went away, |
| 01:43.38 | Suppy | Costs would rise, but that would be offset to some degree by new American manufacturing |
| 01:43.41 | Vincent20100_ | Cheaper sounds like better, especially in economy |
| 01:43.55 | Suppy | But cheaper isn't a necessity |
| 01:44.12 | Suppy | The US economy would survive without import |
| 01:44.18 | Suppy | It has the potential to supply all domestic demand |
| 01:44.25 | Suppy | But an export economy cannot survive nearly as well without export markets |
| 01:44.36 | Suppy | China's currency and construction bubbles are built on the back of export |
| 01:44.46 | Suppy | Russia and China are not special |
| 01:44.47 | Monet | The US and EU these days rely o nservice-backed trade - banking, insurance, stock-trading, creative media etc. |
| 01:44.55 | Vincent20100_ | Yes it can, all it has to do is keep it's production for himself |
| 01:44.56 | Suppy | We do, but not out of necessity |
| 01:45.07 | Suppy | Well, |
| 01:45.09 | Suppy | That's called a war economy |
| 01:45.14 | Suppy | Where you just build stuff to consume |
| 01:45.18 | Suppy | Build to consume, build to consume |
| 01:45.27 | Suppy | Only instead of sending tanks to France and carriers to the Pacific, |
| 01:45.39 | Suppy | You're just sending knockoff Hot Wheels by the truckload to every Tom, Dick, and Harry |
| 01:45.40 | Vincent20100_ | A country that doesn't produce enough cannot survive in isolation, but a country that exports more than it import can |
| 01:45.42 | Suppy | Or Feng, Lao, and Zhuai |
| 01:46.02 | Suppy | But you're conflating not producing with an inability to produce |
| 01:46.16 | Suppy | USA/EU have immense industrial infrastructure |
| 01:46.25 | Suppy | It's why we went from 7 aircraft carriers to hundreds |
| 01:46.35 | Suppy | Just because we aren't actively pursuing something doesn't mean the industry hasn't been developed |
| 01:46.38 | Suppy | In the US and EU, it has |
| 01:46.47 | Suppy | In China and Russia, industry has only developed partially, and only in some sectors |
| 01:47.00 | Suppy | Shipbuilding is a really easy way to tell who is and who isn't developed in that regard |
| 01:47.05 | Suppy | But even then, |
| 01:47.14 | Suppy | Let's pretend shipyards aren't a litmus test for industrial development |
| 01:47.25 | Suppy | Let's look at the diversity of potential goods |
| 01:47.46 | Suppy | The USA has the potential and the infrastructure to "shift gears" and supply not only the domestic market, |
| 01:47.57 | DrodoEmpire | Shipbuilding? Then Halifax *used* to be doing fine... |
| 01:48.09 | Vincent20100_ | Of course, all countries have advantage (ALWAYS) toi trade with each other (Comparative Advantages tTheory) |
| 01:48.09 | Suppy | But the international market with immense quantities of cheap (not cheapEST, but cheap) goods, cars, electronics, and weapons |
| 01:48.31 | DrodoEmpire | ...Then our economy tanked, and now we have less than a million people living in the province, and now all of our young people are in different provinces for work... |
| 01:48.37 | Suppy | Exactly |
| 01:48.39 | DrodoEmpire | ...And so the Nova Scotia sob-story continues. |
| 01:48.43 | Suppy | kek |
| 01:48.58 | Suppy | PRC is taxing their shipyards to the limit with their new 80's style destroyers, |
| 01:49.01 | Suppy | And their new nuclear subs |
| 01:49.12 | Suppy | We aren't keeping pace, but only because our per-unit quality is so much higher |
| 01:49.14 | Suppy | #aegis |
| 01:49.23 | Suppy | But we could easily outproduce them |
| 01:49.28 | Suppy | Which is where you have to look at industrial potential |
| 01:49.37 | Suppy | why* |
| 01:49.51 | Suppy | If the Pacific suddenly became a vacuum cleaner, |
| 01:49.59 | Suppy | And no ships could cross because vacuums =/= water, |
| 01:50.05 | Suppy | USA would endure a shock, without a doubt |
| 01:50.12 | Vincent20100_ | That's where I disagree, I think China and Russia (togheter) have lot more industrial potential then EU/USA |
| 01:50.24 | Suppy | Let me rephrase potential, |
| 01:50.28 | Vincent20100_ | Bigger manpower and bigger resources access |
| 01:50.29 | Suppy | Idle infrastructure |
| 01:50.51 | Suppy | They may have the building blocks, but they don't have all the expertise, plans, and experience |
| 01:51.08 | Suppy | Russia in WWI is a good example of resources and manpower not showing through |
| 01:51.22 | Suppy | US idle infrastructure eclipses Russia and China |
| 01:51.27 | Vincent20100_ | That is actually debatable. There is a lot of expertise in Russia |
| 01:51.33 | Suppy | In what sectors? |
| 01:51.54 | Vincent20100_ | Energy production, military engineering, resources exploitation |
| 01:51.56 | Suppy | (But yes, I would def. put Russia ahead of PRC in terms of expertise) |
| 01:52.09 | Suppy | Energy to an extent. They don't have a very good efficiency or nuclear track record |
| 01:52.17 | Suppy | In military engineering, I would say that's more to do with a captive audience |
| 01:52.20 | Suppy | That is, the CIS |
| 01:52.24 | Suppy | Ex-PACT |
| 01:52.33 | Suppy | The new T-14(?) will be interesting to see, |
| 01:52.44 | Vincent20100_ | Chinese are actually in a very good way to acquire expertise as well |
| 01:52.53 | Vincent20100_ | T-95 too |
| 01:53.12 | Suppy | If I remember correctly, T-14 is the entirely new chassis, T-95 is an upgraded T-80 |
| 01:53.19 | Vincent20100_ | Let's not forget they have the biggest hydroelectric dam in the world |
| 01:53.29 | Vincent20100_ | Even though it was built by Quebeckers... |
| 01:53.37 | Suppy | That's just raw size |
| 01:53.40 | Suppy | They also have the most people |
| 01:53.45 | Vincent20100_ | In power production too |
| 01:53.54 | Monet | China as of late likes ot show off |
| 01:53.55 | AdmiralPanda | for hydro size = power |
| 01:54.05 | Vincent20100_ | Three Georges Dam is an wounder of engeenering |
| 01:54.06 | AdmiralPanda | so sure it's big, but it needs to be |
| 01:54.12 | AdmiralPanda | power per capita probably isn't too impressive though |
| 01:54.18 | Suppy | Three Gorges is awesome, but it's not something that only they could've made |
| 01:54.25 | Suppy | It's exclusive to them only because their rivers are so butthuge |
| 01:54.33 | Vincent20100_ | True, it was built by Quebeckers |
| 01:55.07 | Monet | Suppy: You're making me wonder now what would happen if (if it were possible) one built a dam on the Mississippi |
| 01:55.20 | Monet | Apologies if I spelt it wrong |
| 01:55.20 | Suppy | A lot of my redneck family would drown trying to go for a swim, that's for sure |
| 01:55.21 | Vincent20100_ | And the Chinese are in very good way to acquire expertise. It's the country with most students sent in foreign universities |
| 01:55.33 | Suppy | And a lot of students that don't go back, either |
| 01:55.39 | Vincent20100_ | Mostly in USA and Russia |
| 01:55.39 | Suppy | PRC is experiencing some serious brain drain |
| 01:55.58 | Suppy | Like Botswana in the 90's and early 00's |
| 01:56.08 | Vincent20100_ | There are also a lot of supply coming in too, mostly from Africa |
| 01:56.19 | Suppy | And? |
| 01:56.24 | Monet | Suppy: Wierd. One of the students on my course is from Botswana |
| 01:56.30 | Vincent20100_ | Lot of industrial engineers immigrating to China too |
| 01:56.55 | Suppy | Because they're in demand. Whether or not that's indicative of structural growth is yet to be seen |
| 01:57.02 | Vincent20100_ | Yes China has a Brain Drain, but it is also compensated by an income of it |
| 01:57.10 | Suppy | Monet: Ask if he/she is going as part of a government program. Can't remember its name |
| 01:57.23 | Suppy | I don't think you can really compensate anything for brain drain. |
| 01:57.29 | Suppy | It's really a demographic serial killer |
| 01:57.33 | AdmiralPanda | aren't we discussing a theoretical situation in which the east and west stop trading with each other? in that situation you wouldn't have people coming back |
| 01:57.35 | Monet | Suppy: I know his family's wealthy-ish. That's about it |
| 01:57.42 | Vincent20100_ | Well, with a income of Brain most likely |
| 01:57.45 | Suppy | Monet: Ah, might not be then |
| 01:57.54 | Suppy | I'm talking net brain exchange |
| 01:58.01 | Suppy | They're losing net brains |
| 01:58.15 | Suppy | zombie based economy |
| 01:58.20 | Monet | If the East and West stop trading it's possible those Chinese brains aren't going back home. |
| 01:58.28 | AdmiralPanda | Suppy: Zombie based economy… OMFG THAT WOULD BE AWESOME |
| 01:59.00 | AdmiralPanda | Dude 1 - uh yeah I'll have a big mac and fries Dude 2 - Ok that'll be two walkers |
| 01:59.02 | Suppy | Brains aside, China would be a real loser in a no-trade situation, because their export dollars would no longer be flowing into government coffers. |
| 01:59.11 | Suppy | Liaonang would be laid up. No new destroyer projects, no new cities. |
| 01:59.35 | AdmiralPanda | holy crap I literally can't think of anything right now because of how awesome that idea is |
| 01:59.41 | Suppy | And Deng the rice farmer and his 150m friends are not buying plastic beer cap openers and Princess Elsa castles |
| 02:00.08 | AdmiralPanda | totally need to make an Apocalypse World setting where zombies are used as trade goods |
| 02:00.12 | Vincent20100_ | Well, the US Navy would also likely stop expanding |
| 02:00.25 | Suppy | I don't see why that would happen, |
| 02:00.25 | Monet | Suppy: Capitalism may or may not be evil, but it sure is addictive. |
| 02:00.36 | Suppy | Other than the fact that we wouldn't need to patrol the entire world's oceans anymore |
| 02:00.42 | Vincent20100_ | Actually, the US Navy is at an all time low number of ships |
| 02:00.51 | Suppy | That is true, but our ships are better ton for ton |
| 02:00.56 | Monet | But that's the interesting thing about the West - how much the economy is devoted to goods and services instead of manufacturing. |
| 02:01.18 | Monet | A cheap ship is only good if you want lots of them for a short while. |
| 02:01.31 | Suppy | The Gerald R. Fords coming out of the yards, plus the new Zumwalts and Flight III Arleigh Burkes would wipe the floor with China's mostly inner Pacific navy |
| 02:01.34 | Vincent20100_ | Unfortunatly, in modern warfare quantity tends to win over quality |
| 02:01.44 | Suppy | In what way is that the norm? |
| 02:01.54 | DrodoEmpire | Not at all |
| 02:01.55 | Vincent20100_ | Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea |
| 02:01.59 | Suppy | uh |
| 02:02.00 | DrodoEmpire | No |
| 02:02.02 | Suppy | no |
| 02:02.04 | Suppy | Vietnam |
| 02:02.07 | Monet | What about the Falklands |
| 02:02.08 | Suppy | US troops outnumbered at Tet |
| 02:02.16 | Suppy | Repulse every single VC attack and deal huge casualties |
| 02:02.17 | Vincent20100_ | Vietnam is pretty much the perfect example of that |
| 02:02.21 | Suppy | Absolutely not. |
| 02:02.29 | Suppy | US troops were outnumbered in almost every engagement |
| 02:02.32 | Suppy | And killed countless VC |
| 02:02.33 | DrodoEmpire | That's guerilla tactics winning over misapplied conventional tactics |
| 02:02.39 | AdmiralPanda | ^ |
| 02:02.39 | Monet | SUppy: Outnumbered and outmanouvered |
| 02:02.42 | Suppy | Not even that, Drodo |
| 02:02.43 | Vincent20100_ | True, but the VC DID win ^^ |
| 02:02.45 | Suppy | Nope |
| 02:02.49 | DrodoEmpire | In a war that shouldn't have happened in the first place |
| 02:02.49 | Suppy | Everyone stop for a moment |
| 02:02.53 | Suppy | Too much bad Vietnam history going on here |
| 02:02.59 | Suppy | pls |
| 02:03.00 | DrodoEmpire | I hate to be blunt, but read a history book. |
| 02:03.04 | AdmiralPanda | ok Suppy, you're an economy guy. Me and Drodo are military history guys |
| 02:03.05 | DrodoEmpire | Please. :P |
| 02:03.09 | Suppy | Actually nah |
| 02:03.16 | Suppy | I have two bookcases of military books |
| 02:03.18 | OfficerJackal | If the US had applied assymetric tactics instead of ridged conventional tactics, the VC would have had their asses handed to them, and plus the VC were more familliar with the area. |
| 02:03.28 | Vincent20100_ | Drodo, a lot of time I could say the same to you, especially when you're talking about native americans, so plz stay calm, |
| 02:03.29 | Suppy | We handed the VC's asses to them in every engagement |
| 02:03.29 | AdmiralPanda | The Americans killed craptons of VC, but they lost because they had different tactical styles |
| 02:03.31 | Suppy | It was political concerns |
| 02:03.45 | DrodoEmpire | Vinny, you're wrong when it came to that old debate don't bring it up |
| 02:03.50 | Suppy | US troops never were able to take down the Ho Chi Minh Trail because of our restricted range of engagement |
| 02:03.57 | Suppy | And we could never attack North Vietnam for a long time |
| 02:04.03 | Suppy | The Linebacker operations would've won the war had they not been cut off |
| 02:04.04 | Vincent20100_ | Sorry drod, but you were wrong, just admit it |
| 02:04.07 | DrodoEmpire | So don't try and skip around debates because you get your ass kicked in one |
| 02:04.13 | Suppy | I have several relatives who fought in Vietnam |
| 02:04.21 | DrodoEmpire | Absolutely not. Don't talk down to me. |
| 02:04.27 | Vincent20100_ | If I remember correctly, you cgot your ass handed at that convo... |
| 02:04.41 | Suppy | Also, the US didn't even lose the war |
| 02:04.45 | Suppy | We withdrew, and the ARVN was incompetent af |
| 02:04.49 | Vincent20100_ | Anyway, there is still KOrea, and WW2 in general |
| 02:04.54 | Suppy | In Korea, |
| 02:04.59 | DrodoEmpire | Why do you bring this up at all? To spite me? Give me a break you fool. |
| 02:05.02 | Suppy | The PVA attacked UN forces with massive numerical superiority |
| 02:05.07 | Vincent20100_ | I've actually met lots of Korea veterans |
| 02:05.09 | Suppy | Still held at the parallel |
| 02:05.17 | AdmiralPanda | On the subject of Veitnam: the VC broke America's will to fight, forcing their withdrawal despite the VC taking vastly more casualties. |
| 02:05.17 | Suppy | In WW2, |
| 02:05.18 | Monet | Suppy: True the US didn't lose. |
| 02:05.19 | Vincent20100_ | You brought that up Drodo |
| 02:05.20 | Monet | It gave up |
| 02:05.33 | Suppy | German troops pound for pound obliterated Soviet forces |
| 02:05.39 | Vincent20100_ | Well, We got our ass handed in Korea... |
| 02:05.40 | Suppy | Even the great Soviet victories, |
| 02:05.46 | Suppy | Like at Bagration and Kursk |
| 02:05.51 | Suppy | All massively expensive to the USSR |
| 02:05.54 | DrodoEmpire | Nope, you brought up the natives to spite me instead of focusing on the debate like a wuss. |
| 02:05.57 | Suppy | Quality is the king |
| 02:05.59 | Vincent20100_ | Such a shame they lost in they end ^^ |
| 02:06.20 | Vincent20100_ | Because you brought up [21:02] <DrodoEmpire> I hate to be blunt, but read a history book. |
| 02:06.23 | Suppy | Or at Tannenberg, where outnumbered German troops obliterated the Russian professional army |
| 02:06.27 | Vincent20100_ | So yah, plz |
| 02:06.42 | OfficerJackal | Vincent20100: Actually, the reason we lost in North Korea, which actually we were winning before, is that McArther over there decided it'd be a brilliant idea to try and go into China, and they send hordes of their army to face our smaller forces adapted to fighting against NK. |
| 02:06.47 | Vincent20100_ | Stop playing the victim Drodo |
| 02:07.02 | Suppy | MacArthur never entered China |
| 02:07.07 | OfficerJackal | He didn't? |
| 02:07.08 | Suppy | He was ordered to stop at the Manchurian border |
| 02:07.14 | Suppy | Once our forces met the border, |
| 02:07.14 | Vincent20100_ | Jackal, the History of KOrea war in 2 mins NOrth attacked and killed the south |
| 02:07.21 | AdmiralPanda | the one thing I love most about the Vietnam War though, is what the VC thought of the Australians |
| 02:07.22 | Suppy | THey were attacked by the Chinese People's Volunteer Army |
| 02:07.22 | Vincent20100_ | US counter attacked and killed the NOrth |
| 02:07.28 | Vincent20100_ | China counter attacked and killed US |
| 02:07.30 | DrodoEmpire | Vincent, how about you stop trying to start a fucking flamewar with me |
| 02:07.34 | Suppy | Their numerical superiority overwhelmed UN forces who reatreated past Seoul, then recovered |
| 02:07.36 | DrodoEmpire | I'm finished with yu |
| 02:07.38 | DrodoEmpire | *you |
| 02:07.51 | Vincent20100_ | Drod, you started that, just admit it, there is even proof of that |
| 02:07.54 | Suppy | Truman was so focused on keeping MacArthur out of China (and badly so) that he underarmed them consistently |
| 02:08.03 | AdmiralPanda | one of their highest ranking commanders went on record saying "If you meet Americans, just ambush them on one of their paths. If you meet Australians, leave: they make their own paths." |
| 02:08.16 | Suppy | >australians pre-80's |
| 02:08.18 | Vincent20100_ | McArthur was ready to nuke China, good thing he got suspended of his functions |
| 02:08.19 | Suppy | >having ROE |
| 02:08.19 | Suppy | pick one |
| 02:08.27 | AdmiralPanda | ROE? |
| 02:08.31 | OfficerJackal | Ohh, right. XD My mistake, yeah if the US forces were better armed and had more numbers, it would have been a vastly different story with China. |
| 02:08.31 | Monet | Vincent20100: Drop it. |
| 02:08.32 | Suppy | Rules of Engagement |
| 02:08.44 | Suppy | But even without reinforcement, we held the massive Chinese armies at bay |
| 02:08.46 | AdmiralPanda | oh we had those, we were just smarter than most give us credit for. |
| 02:08.47 | Suppy | Or at Chosin Reservoir |
| 02:08.50 | Vincent20100_ | Sorry Monet, but he searched for it |
| 02:08.55 | Suppy | Anyone who says quantity>quality needs to look at Chosin |
| 02:09.02 | AdmiralPanda | Australian history is littered with us just choosing not to fight when we didn't need to :P |
| 02:09.06 | Vincent20100_ | He always starts up and then plays the victims, sorry, not this time |
| 02:09.08 | Monet | VIncent20100: Doesn't matter. The bomb went off and you carried on. |
| 02:09.29 | OfficerJackal | Yep, our forces were vastly better then the Chinese in almost every aspect except numbers, were we managed to hold off their hordes. |
| 02:09.29 | Suppy | come on guys, let's all be friends |
| 02:09.32 | Suppy | There were Brits at Chosin |
| 02:09.36 | Suppy | 41 Commando |
| 02:09.39 | AdmiralPanda | and we have napalm for style points :P |
| 02:10.17 | Suppy | Yum yum |
| 02:10.41 | Vincent20100_ | Suppy, that is actually debatable about wherever or not McArth entered China or Not |
| 02:10.47 | Vincent20100_ | The Chinses said he did |
| 02:10.54 | AdmiralPanda | I mean the Americans "invented" it, but we figured out how to cook it up in oil drums :P |
| 02:11.03 | Suppy | Anywanys, quality>quantity. PLAN<<<<USN. |
| 02:11.10 | Suppy | Yeah, and? |
| 02:11.19 | Suppy | The Kims say that the South attacked the North |
| 02:11.22 | Suppy | PRC is a propaganda state |
| 02:11.27 | Vincent20100_ | Well, it is not sure about whatever or not he did |
| 02:11.27 | Suppy | More so back then, but still |
| 02:11.31 | Vincent20100_ | Because USA aren't |
| 02:11.33 | Suppy | No, he had strict rules |
| 02:11.36 | Suppy | No entering Manchuria |
| 02:11.41 | Suppy | Well, it was the UN |
| 02:11.43 | Suppy | Not just the USA |
| 02:11.51 | Suppy | It was a UN police action to counterattack DPRK |
| 02:11.53 | Vincent20100_ | Not all of the UN agreed |
| 02:12.00 | Monet | Vincent20100: Things are starting to wear thin around here. We've had a discussion/argument, you were willing to continue another. |
| 02:12.04 | Suppy | They voted on it |
| 02:12.09 | Suppy | And approved of UN intervention |
| 02:12.23 | Suppy | The Kagnew Brigde is an interesting example |
| 02:12.26 | Suppy | Ethiopian troops |
| 02:12.46 | Vincent20100_ | Monet: Yah, because he come, hit me in the face, and excpet me not to answer? |
| 02:12.48 | Suppy | (technically the Pact had retired in protest before realizing their grave mistake, but still) |
| 02:13.02 | Suppy | Stop fighting |
| 02:13.13 | Monet | Vincent20100: The best thing to do i nthat situation is to do just that. |
| 02:13.30 | Vincent20100_ | I did that all the other time, didn't worked |
| 02:14.10 | Monet | And what happened just now had? |
| 02:14.15 | Suppy | Petty fighting is not becoming of a gentleman or an officer. |
| 02:14.28 | Suppy | You lend no credence to your authority for either party to do so. |
| 02:14.43 | Suppy | (Side question: am I the only one here actually signing up for a military?) |
| 02:14.48 | Vincent20100_ | No |
| 02:14.54 | Vincent20100_ | Did too |
| 02:15.00 | DrodoEmpire | Suppy: I don't intend to anytime soon, no |
| 02:15.20 | Suppy | Anytime soon? |
| 02:15.23 | AdmiralPanda | Suppy: I considered it but I'm not. Just not my kind of thing. I study military history more out of interest |
| 02:15.32 | Suppy | Interesting |
| 02:15.41 | Monet | Vincent: If someone is speaking in a way that provokes you, any form of reaction will only fuel the fire. |
| 02:15.43 | Vincent20100_ | I hate working for the Canadian and therefor a capitalist army, but I have stuff to learn from them |
| 02:15.46 | Suppy | BRB, but I'm actually applying for USNA/NROTC currently |
| 02:16.07 | Monet | But if you say nothing, they have no fuel ot burn |
| 02:16.14 | DrodoEmpire | Suppy: As in probably not. |
| 02:16.28 | Vincent20100_ | Yes Monet, but why is it at me and not at both of us you are in your "blackbook" |
| 02:17.37 | AdmiralPanda | Because we all know Drodo can be an arse, we're just trying to not-so-subtly pressure you into just leaving him be |
| 02:17.46 | Monet | VIncent20100: I suppose you did provoke him by bringing up 'Nam. |
| 02:18.07 | Vincent20100_ | Sorry, but that isn't exactly what a provocation is |
| 02:18.27 | AdmiralPanda | if it provoked him then it's a provocation by definition |
| 02:18.29 | Vincent20100_ | And I don't have to live with that harshiness |
| 02:18.41 | AdmiralPanda | anyway, just chill out and stop all the bitching |
| 02:19.06 | Vincent20100_ | And sorry, but talking about historic events ins't provocation |
| 02:19.18 | AdmiralPanda | take a page out of Australia's book: figure out which fights aren't worth it and don't fight them |
| 02:20.13 | Vincent20100_ | So sorry if we were having a discussion between us, and that, for not freaking reasons, offended you |
| 02:21.21 | Monet | I'm not the one offended. |
| 02:21.32 | DrodoEmpire | "[22:17] <Monet> VIncent20100: I suppose you did provoke him by bringing up 'Nam." - This, did not provoke me whatsoever |
| 02:21.37 | DrodoEmpire | Not really anyway |
| 02:21.43 | Vincent20100_ | Further more, and discussion that did not even involved him |
| 02:22.29 | Vincent20100_ | And I also don't think just ''hiding the querel under the carpet" is the right solution |
| 02:22.35 | Monet | I've started and have been caught up in my own arguments. I know what it's like to be blinded by the red mist when common sense says now would be a good time to back away. |
| 02:22.46 | DrodoEmpire | Vincent it was more your wish to provoke me through mentioning debates long-over that (successfully) got me going and made me more hostile. I haven't been particularly kind to you at all, really, but at the same time you're hardly the paragon of virtue. |
| 02:24.52 | Vincent20100_ | That is true, as Monet said, I did entered the game |
| 02:25.14 | DrodoEmpire | Most certainly you did. |
| 02:27.03 | Monet | Saying nothing and backing away when the mud hits your face is harder than people say it is. I've been there and I know what it's like. |
| 02:28.14 | Monet | The best solution I ca nthink of: Leave the channel, blow off some steam elsewhere. |
| 02:29.33 | Vincent20100_ | If I didn't had a service tomorow morning, I would go to a conference a friend invited me |
| 02:29.51 | Vincent20100_ | But no, gotta go serve cafeteria meals |
| 02:31.21 | Suppy | let me tell you 'bout my best frieeeend |
| 02:32.29 | Suppy | Monet: I read your post-scarcity writeup |
| 02:32.36 | Suppy | It's an interesting look at a post-scarcity economy and its values |
| 02:32.52 | Suppy | But what I was assailing is the idea that the process of creating one is even possible |
| 02:33.32 | AdmiralPanda | in the meantime I'm gonna look at swords |
| 02:33.47 | AdmiralPanda | because swords are a fun topic that there's less arguing about |
| 02:34.05 | Suppy | nyesss |
| 02:34.13 | Suppy | So |
| 02:34.16 | Suppy | The most important thing on my mind |
| 02:34.17 | DrodoEmpire | Panda: Indeed |
| 02:34.19 | Monet | AdmiralPanda: Like how great katanas are? :V |
| 02:34.21 | Suppy | Does this mean I can be one of the history nerds now? |
| 02:34.28 | DrodoEmpire | punches Monet in the face |
| 02:34.32 | AdmiralPanda | Monet: Katanas are an excellent sidearm |
| 02:34.33 | Suppy | Need I prove myself more, Senpai? |
| 02:34.47 | Monet | DrodoEmpire: I was joking lol |
| 02:34.53 | DrodoEmpire | I know. Me too. XD |
| 02:34.59 | AdmiralPanda | yeah there are no katana cultists here :P |
| 02:35.09 | Suppy | gatdang weeaboos |
| 02:35.11 | AdmiralPanda | I would have hunted them down and run them through with a falchion by now if there were |
| 02:35.16 | Vincent20100_ | http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/business/2014/01/05/price_of_tuna_nosedives_at_famous_tokyo_auction_despite_dwindling_stocks/tuna_in_tokyo.jpg |
| 02:35.20 | Vincent20100_ | http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/1b8352312fd032a9491951ebc5cc28c9adf27861/c=565-606-3473-2793&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/USATODAY/test/2014/01/05//1388902084000-EPA-JAPAN-TUNA-AUCTION.jpg |
| 02:35.29 | Vincent20100_ | These are Bluefin Tunas |
| 02:35.30 | Monet | Suppy: True, I was looking at more the social ramificationss than "can it actually be done", although I did want ot assess if it could be done |
| 02:35.38 | Vincent20100_ | The most expansives fishes in the world |
| 02:36.00 | DrodoEmpire | In all honesty Katanas are nice swords but I personally prefer longswords, sabres, and Chinese swords |
| 02:36.09 | Vincent20100_ | They are so huge there are using Katanas to separate the flesh from the bones |
| 02:36.14 | Suppy | ooh |
| 02:36.26 | Monet | Thanks to quantum replicators becoming more commonplace in the 1st gig, the post-scarcity society is becoming popular |
| 02:36.33 | Suppy | My favorite sword is the 6in bayonet on my SKS |
| 02:36.41 | AdmiralPanda | that's not a katana |
| 02:36.44 | Vincent20100_ | They are gonna be instinct by September 2016 |
| 02:36.47 | DrodoEmpire | Also the gladius and spatha are cool |
| 02:37.02 | Suppy | Monet: And I would contest that quantum replicators would themselves be restricted items. That is, hoarded, traded, or kept by a single armed group to give themselves power |
| 02:37.09 | Suppy | MY SKS CAN BE A KATANA IF IT WANTS TO BE |
| 02:37.11 | AdmiralPanda | my personal favourite is the falchion for no practical reason other than it looks like a fucking big bowie knife |
| 02:37.17 | Monet | Vincent20100: I heard about Bluefins. So fast they can leap out of the water, over trawler decks and injure people right? |
| 02:37.25 | DrodoEmpire | Panda: lol |
| 02:37.29 | AdmiralPanda | Suppy: I was talking about the paring blade they're using to carve the tuna |
| 02:37.32 | Suppy | #beingthisamerican #canownsemi-autorifles |
| 02:37.39 | Suppy | Admiral Panda: Ya dogg. It's wicked kool |
| 02:37.43 | Vincent20100_ | Am I the only one who prefer Swiss knife? |
| 02:37.51 | Suppy | Admiral Panda: Oh wait. Yeah, OK. Just compensating, sorry |
| 02:37.57 | AdmiralPanda | all good |
| 02:38.19 | Monet | Suppy: Well maybe there could be a market in limited-time blueprints. |
| 02:38.33 | AdmiralPanda | fun fact: as much as I love using the good old sword-and-board in games, IRL I'm actually much more proficient with two-handers |
| 02:38.46 | DrodoEmpire | Ah |
| 02:38.49 | Suppy | Monet: I predict that Warlord Jimbob would destroy the factory and all replicators but one, and us it to feed his warlord army and anyone that kisses his bum |
| 02:39.13 | Monet | You buy a blueprint online,download it then it prints say...50 thiings (like chopsticks) before the blueprint self-corrupts |
| 02:39.55 | AdmiralPanda | instead of swords themselves, favourite swordsmithing regions? |
| 02:39.59 | Suppy | Then you go on www.piratebay.wormy and get the cracked version that never corrupts.... |
| 02:40.01 | Suppy | Kinda like Spore |
| 02:40.03 | AdmiralPanda | os mine is Italy hands down |
| 02:40.03 | Suppy | funny, ain't it |
| 02:40.12 | AdmiralPanda | cos* |
| 02:40.28 | Monet | Suppy: Piracy will never die. YO HO! |
| 02:41.31 | Monet | AdmiralPanda: I'm partial towards Germany. |
| 02:41.45 | AdmiralPanda | *hisses* |
| 02:41.51 | AdmiralPanda | but seriously, germany ftw |
| 02:42.01 | Suppy | Germany is also my favorite gun and tank region |
| 02:42.04 | Suppy | And dictator region |
| 02:42.06 | Suppy | And uniform region |
| 02:42.15 | AdmiralPanda | if you want something that looks pretty go to Milan, Germany for something actually meant to kill people |
| 02:42.17 | DrodoEmpire | http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/02/140225-black-hole-big-science-space/ - big space thing |
| 02:42.36 | AdmiralPanda | that and the gothic era of arms and armour is basically my fetish |
| 02:42.40 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 02:42.59 | Monet | I love me some Greenwich Armour. |
| 02:43.14 | DrodoEmpire | I don't really have one fixation. :P I like most swords or weapons I come across though again, Chinese swords are really nice. |
| 02:43.18 | Monet | German techniques made in ye British Isles |
| 02:43.22 | AdmiralPanda | Monet: So German :P |
| 02:43.28 | DrodoEmpire | Like the Jian for example |
| 02:43.51 | Monet | AdmiralPanda: I guess |
| 02:43.52 | DrodoEmpire | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Jian_%28sword%29.jpg |
| 02:43.56 | AdmiralPanda | if there was any one blade I slightly deviated into cultism over though it's the Ulfberht |
| 02:44.02 | AdmiralPanda | Monet: I was teasing you XD |
| 02:44.05 | Suppy | Why is it that you all love swords over guns? |
| 02:44.11 | DrodoEmpire | I like guns |
| 02:44.15 | AdmiralPanda | Suppy: because they're fucking awesome XD |
| 02:44.23 | AdmiralPanda | also sword fighting is cooler than gunfighting |
| 02:44.26 | DrodoEmpire | Like they're nice, but swords are true works of art |
| 02:44.46 | DrodoEmpire | And take a higher degree of skill to use, and have a *much* longer history |
| 02:44.48 | Suppy | http://www.alexanderarms.com/products/ulfberht I do have a fave Ulfberht |
| 02:44.50 | Monet | Although *technically* the most protective suit of amrour was crafted in England after Daniel Hopfer was paid to move there |
| 02:45.15 | AdmiralPanda | Suppy: the ulfberht is a viking sword you twat :P |
| 02:45.20 | Suppy | HAHAHAHAHAHAH |
| 02:45.44 | Monet | ALso you can be stylish with a sword and still kick ass. |
| 02:45.51 | Suppy | Implying the SKS isn't stylish |
| 02:46.01 | Monet | Try being stylish with a gun and you have a 70% hance of breaking something or dying |
| 02:46.12 | Suppy | Not if you know how to use them |
| 02:46.15 | Monet | I mean using it |
| 02:46.23 | Suppy | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/SKS_-_Ryssland_-_AM.045810.jpg |
| 02:46.26 | Suppy | Look at this sexy thing |
| 02:46.38 | DrodoEmpire | Granted, showing off with a sword isn't exactly smart unless you have been training for *years* |
| 02:46.47 | AdmiralPanda | oh god, I'm imagining the most hardout, needlessly-overcomplex forging process I can think of for a blade |
| 02:46.58 | AdmiralPanda | so far I've already got at least five techniques included |
| 02:47.10 | Monet | DrodoEmpire: Still more practical than showing off with a gun even with years of training. |
| 02:47.15 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 02:47.17 | DrodoEmpire | True, true |
| 02:47.25 | Monet | 60% of gun style violates the laws of gun safety |
| 02:47.33 | Monet | At least |
| 02:47.59 | DrodoEmpire | But yeah basically I'm a fan of firearms but swords, to me, have a longer history, are more diverse, and are just a bit more interesting |
| 02:48.11 | DrodoEmpire | Bows too |
| 02:48.25 | Suppy | Ah, but guns can be so beautifully unpredictable |
| 02:48.27 | Suppy | They can be beautiful |
| 02:48.30 | Suppy | Or just ugly and stupid |
| 02:48.31 | DrodoEmpire | Archery is a big hobby of mine |
| 02:48.46 | Monet | Suppy: I'm taking about stylish as in the way you use it |
| 02:48.52 | AdmiralPanda | crucible steel damascus billet, pattern-welded with a bimetal core, differentially tempered |
| 02:48.56 | Suppy | Monet: And I use her with style |
| 02:49.01 | Monet | I admit, I am somewhat of a fan of the F2000 and the P90 |
| 02:49.11 | DrodoEmpire | I prefer old guns. |
| 02:49.16 | Suppy | Fabriqueaboo |
| 02:49.32 | DrodoEmpire | M14s and Lee-Enfields and stuff |
| 02:49.43 | AdmiralPanda | make a scalloped war-sword out of it |
| 02:49.56 | Monet | And I'm partial to the SA80-A2 |
| 02:50.03 | Suppy | Oh |
| 02:50.06 | Suppy | I thought you meant muskets |
| 02:50.17 | DrodoEmpire | Me? Oh those too |
| 02:50.22 | DrodoEmpire | I *love* muskets |
| 02:50.31 | Suppy | Spencer Repeating RIfle |
| 02:50.36 | DrodoEmpire | Arquebuses, hand-cannons, that sort |
| 02:50.38 | AdmiralPanda | *starts frothing at the mouth* 5' blade with a 16" grip most likely |
| 02:50.43 | DrodoEmpire | olol |
| 02:50.58 | Monet | He's going into shock! |
| 02:51.04 | AdmiralPanda | can you even put a fuller on a bimetal core blade? |
| 02:51.13 | Suppy | >tfw you aren't a voltigeur under Napoleon le Grande marching to Austerlitz |
| 02:51.34 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 02:51.38 | AdmiralPanda | I suppose you could, that'd be a rather interesting blade cross section though |
| 02:51.57 | Monet | But then again I'm British. Guns are more a passing hobby |
| 02:52.13 | AdmiralPanda | guns practically don't exist in Australia except in the military :P |
| 02:52.31 | Suppy | Guns are life |
| 02:52.32 | Suppy | #USA |
| 02:52.36 | Monet | European armour? I'll dig that. |
| 02:52.48 | Monet | Tallships? Oh yes |
| 02:53.22 | AdmiralPanda | I actually had a suit of full plate designed for me, I still have the CAD file in case I'm ever rich enough to have it fabricated |
| 02:53.33 | DrodoEmpire | Nice |
| 02:53.45 | Monet | How long ago did you order it? |
| 02:54.01 | AdmiralPanda | didn't order it, just got it designed |
| 02:54.05 | AdmiralPanda | and that was about half a year ago |
| 02:54.17 | Monet | Oh okay. |
| 02:54.38 | AdmiralPanda | it'd cost several thousand dollars to actually get it made, not counting shipping :P |
| 02:54.39 | Monet | Was going to say, depending on how long ag oyou requested the design, you might have t ohave the dimensions refreshed |
| 02:56.02 | AdmiralPanda | largely went with a mix of Maxmillian and Gothic styles |
| 02:57.13 | Monet | I can see why it would cost thousands |
| 02:57.50 | AdmiralPanda | mostly the man-hours more than anything else, I'm not crazy enough to request it to be forged from crucible steel so they'd probably make it from spring steel |
| 02:58.22 | Monet | That's what I had in mind. |
| 02:58.29 | Monet | Lotta curved shapes |
| 02:58.43 | AdmiralPanda | oh you use spring steel for the carbon content, not the shape |
| 02:58.54 | AdmiralPanda | you'd still cut and forge it into billets again |
| 02:59.01 | Monet | Still if you're going to include the gold trim, that would look nice |
| 02:59.15 | AdmiralPanda | nah, moulded steel and engravings |
| 02:59.36 | AdmiralPanda | http://p2.la-img.com/482/13740/4189921_1_l.jpg like this |
| 02:59.55 | AdmiralPanda | decorative and functional :P |
| 02:59.57 | Monet | Ah well, it's your armour. |
| 03:00.17 | AdmiralPanda | http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--OMBhcEm3--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18pepopyqkco1jpg.jpg this helmet has a moustache |
| 03:00.22 | AdmiralPanda | just stop and appreciate that for am oment |
| 03:00.38 | DrodoEmpire | I'd wear that into battle, you kidding? |
| 03:00.47 | DrodoEmpire | I'd be the most fabulous knight on the field |
| 03:00.48 | Suppy | Ah finally, something with a moustache holder |
| 03:00.57 | AdmiralPanda | ^ DrodoEmpire gets me |
| 03:01.10 | TekDroid | Part of me would bet it's compensating for not having a mustache. :P |
| 03:01.15 | AdmiralPanda | probably |
| 03:01.23 | DrodoEmpire | ^ |
| 03:01.28 | AdmiralPanda | personally I'd wear a barbute myself, think a corinthian just a bit less fancy |
| 03:01.39 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah barbutes are nice |
| 03:01.53 | AdmiralPanda | (that means ancient greek helmet in case anyone doesn't know) |
| 03:01.53 | DrodoEmpire | I like sallets myself thought |
| 03:01.57 | Monet | I think Uriel can risk going out i ngold trimmed armour because he can simpyl have nanites reshape and restore the plates. |
| 03:01.58 | DrodoEmpire | *though |
| 03:02.03 | AdmiralPanda | I like most helmets in general |
| 03:02.17 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah same, just *really* like sallets; Very sleek |
| 03:02.21 | AdmiralPanda | the only thing I don't like about great helms is they're too boxy to wear |
| 03:02.26 | DrodoEmpire | I also like Morions |
| 03:02.37 | AdmiralPanda | I mean they're highly practical, but it's like you're playing minecraft |
| 03:02.52 | DrodoEmpire | Also known as the "stereotypical conquistador helmet" |
| 03:02.59 | Monet | Though then again...maybe he has armourers reshape plates out of the principle they don't want t osee their work sullied by tiny robots |
| 03:03.15 | TekDroid | Monet: You can probably afford gold trim when you own a quarter of thr galaxy. :P |
| 03:03.30 | Monet | TekDroid: I'm taking about gold trim o nbattle armour |
| 03:03.41 | DrodoEmpire | Even though by the time the Aztecs where conquered at least Morions where not common/didn't exist |
| 03:03.51 | TekDroid | He can still probably afford it. :P |
| 03:04.01 | Monet | True. |
| 03:04.19 | Monet | And because of the way the houses work and make money, it doesn't come out of the Imperial coffers |
| 03:05.23 | AdmiralPanda | the only decoration Hel'Bre'K's armour has is the name of every single opponent he's slain. If he runs out of space he gets a new set of armour :P |
| 03:05.39 | Suppy | How does he get the names? |
| 03:05.44 | Suppy | Does he check for nametags or something? |
| 03:05.51 | Suppy | I bet he has a secretary for that |
| 03:06.02 | AdmiralPanda | if he can't find it himself he just gets an icon put on |
| 03:06.05 | Suppy | Just following him into battle with a notepad and a pen |
| 03:06.10 | DrodoEmpire | hur |
| 03:06.23 | Monet | I always thought he cut the dog-tags off every opponent he kills :P |
| 03:06.27 | AdmiralPanda | he does have a guy who when not in battle just carries his helmet for him |
| 03:07.24 | AdmiralPanda | but Fordanta in general are a very do it yourself kind of race |
| 03:08.29 | Suppy | Sporewiki warfare seems to be very unique |
| 03:08.34 | Suppy | Lots of bits and pieces from all history |
| 03:08.37 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah |
| 03:08.43 | DrodoEmpire | Changes where you go too |
| 03:09.06 | DrodoEmpire | Some regions have some general war trends, others have others |
| 03:09.21 | AdmiralPanda | and the Fordanta are the only faction that just kills things :P |
| 03:09.37 | AdmiralPanda | everyone else has some high motive for war, the Fordanta only go to war when they want all of you dead |
| 03:09.48 | DrodoEmpire | Now that I think about it, the Drodo have made a complete 180 turn in terms of their warfare style |
| 03:10.23 | Suppy | Seems like an odd way to talk about warfare.. |
| 03:10.26 | Suppy | For lack of a better way to word that |
| 03:10.35 | DrodoEmpire | Just general docrine, etc. |
| 03:10.39 | DrodoEmpire | *doctrine |
| 03:11.53 | DrodoEmpire | At the start they where intensely practical and blah, then they started to resemble StarCraft's terrans with mechanized whatever and pure firepower, and then finally they've made a mix of the previous three with a generous addition of 19th-century, and lots and lots of privately-raised and cultural battalions (steppe warriors, aristocratic levies, etc.) |
| 03:12.03 | DrodoEmpire | *previous two |
| 03:12.07 | DrodoEmpire | I suck at basic math |
| 03:12.15 | Suppy | And how did that equate, for them, to better efficiency? |
| 03:12.23 | Suppy | What is the geography of Gigaquadrant warfare? |
| 03:13.35 | DrodoEmpire | Well the Drodo are steeped in tradition and are general "rule of cool" kind of people. They make it work despite (and because of) plenty of oddities |
| 03:13.56 | DarcySupremest | Rule of cool aka, the only way to play |
| 03:14.03 | DrodoEmpire | Hard to describe. In terms of space combat low-yield hyperspatial missiles are a big player |
| 03:14.11 | DrodoEmpire | "Angelfire" missiles |
| 03:14.25 | AdmiralPanda | The Fordanta have remained mostly the same, in that they have a very "no kill like overkill" mentality |
| 03:14.28 | DrodoEmpire | Spam them from hundreds of lightyears away |
| 03:14.44 | DrodoEmpire | Right |
| 03:15.06 | Suppy | That doesn't seem as rule of cool as it could be, at least to me |
| 03:15.11 | Suppy | What ever happened to subspace line battles? |
| 03:15.16 | DrodoEmpire | Well that's in general |
| 03:15.21 | Suppy | Invsible Hand vs. Venator #25252, for example? |
| 03:15.32 | DrodoEmpire | Hyperspatial missile aren't the rule of cool bit and aren't even unique to the Drodo |
| 03:15.37 | Suppy | ohgut |
| 03:15.40 | AdmiralPanda | line battles only happen in regions of space where Wormy isn't XD |
| 03:15.47 | DrodoEmpire | lol, basically |
| 03:16.08 | AdmiralPanda | wherever that guy goes everything takes an astronomic ramp-up towards theoretical tech |
| 03:16.11 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah that's still the majority tactic in the Sporewikiverse. Angelfires are a growing trend though |
| 03:16.25 | DrodoEmpire | And other extreme-long range payloads |
| 03:17.17 | Suppy | Well that's still not fun |
| 03:17.23 | AdmiralPanda | the main reason the Fordanta are so push-button-to-kill though is the fact that I come from a Heroic fiction background, which is a far step away from basically everything else everyone here makes |
| 03:17.40 | Suppy | Push button to kill style? |
| 03:17.48 | AdmiralPanda | I don't really have to bother with high-brow politics so I can just focus on characters |
| 03:18.19 | DrodoEmpire | Everyone does character fictions still. :P Some people just do other stuff too |
| 03:18.29 | DrodoEmpire | And I can't bring myself to write fiction at all right now |
| 03:18.37 | AdmiralPanda | Suppy: Primary planetary invasion tactic is attack everything at the same time, overwhelming the defenders with massed orbital fire and an onslaught of people who literally do not give a shit if they live or die, armed with some of the best weapons and armour around |
| 03:18.46 | Suppy | >tfw you're desperately trying to get people to interact with your stable of characters |
| 03:18.58 | AdmiralPanda | and when I say everything, I mean everything- military, civilian, doesn't matter |
| 03:19.05 | AdmiralPanda | everything burns |
| 03:19.15 | Suppy | Like if Mandalore the Ultimate was slightly more Gary Stu |
| 03:19.40 | DrodoEmpire | Drodo used a slightly more measured approach because they're a bunch of pansies |
| 03:20.28 | AdmiralPanda | in-universe the Fordanta act that way because their first enemies were other Fordanta, whom if you don't wipe out will come back a couple of generations later and fuck you over |
| 03:20.52 | AdmiralPanda | and so far their policy of completely fucking people over hasn't really run them wrong, so they've had no reason to change |
| 03:21.00 | DrodoEmpire | Makes sense |
| 03:21.02 | Suppy | TIL Putin is a Fordanta |
| 03:21.06 | DrodoEmpire | lul |
| 03:21.41 | AdmiralPanda | y'know, I just realised that potentially the Fordanta could take angel fire missiles a step further towards the ludicrous |
| 03:22.04 | AdmiralPanda | shooting them at retardedly high speeds is one thing, phasing them into reality where you want them to explode is another entirely |
| 03:22.18 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah sounds like a good idea |
| 03:22.23 | Suppy | So just teleporting bombs like this is Red Alert III |
| 03:22.42 | DrodoEmpire | You'd need good computers to actually put them exactly where you'd want them though |
| 03:22.57 | OfficerJackal | D@nk ali3nw@rs |
| 03:23.11 | OfficerJackal | w@rez* |
| 03:23.42 | Suppy | So a big thing I'm enjoying about coming to SW is understanding all the different attitudes and systems for civilizations |
| 03:23.48 | Suppy | And in doing so, examining my own systems to try and improve them |
| 03:23.52 | Suppy | Cannibalizing good parts, I suppose |
| 03:24.05 | AdmiralPanda | DrodoEmpire: well in the case of voidphase technology you'd need a gate nearby, but that's achievable just by putting a single ship with a decent-sized internal gate within sensor range of what you're trying to blow up |
| 03:24.06 | Suppy | Could I open a few short concepts in the Omni Range up to your examination or criticism? |
| 03:24.14 | AdmiralPanda | Suppy: go for it |
| 03:24.23 | Suppy | Like, this won't fall on deaf ears? |
| 03:25.05 | Suppy | aight gon start anyways |
| 03:25.07 | AdmiralPanda | not at all, just be warned that several of us are rather snarky and sarcastic by default (hell, I'm Australian) so if something is stupid expect us to call it stupid :P |
| 03:25.14 | Suppy | It's fine |
| 03:25.18 | Suppy | I'm offensive and sarcastic and southern |
| 03:25.55 | Suppy | So, in the Omni Range |
| 03:26.06 | Suppy | There are around 672 (can't remember exact number) |
| 03:26.08 | Suppy | Individual systems |
| 03:26.12 | Suppy | All named, detailed, history'd, etc |
| 03:26.18 | Suppy | All linked by pairs of jump gates |
| 03:26.21 | Suppy | Which creates travel routes |
| 03:26.33 | Suppy | For the purpose of allowing chokepoints, battles over space, back-and-forth, so on and so forth |
| 03:26.45 | Suppy | One of the larger of the ~70 nations is mine, the EIT |
| 03:26.51 | Suppy | With only 127 trillion citizens, |
| 03:26.56 | Suppy | A 9.72 quadrillion GDP |
| 03:26.58 | AdmiralPanda | first thing that comes to mind is how exactly the jump gates work |
| 03:27.13 | Suppy | Individual ships can be important. Named vessels and people are significante |
| 03:27.15 | Suppy | OK, jump gates |
| 03:27.25 | Suppy | Let's say you want to go from Gorodniye to Sius |
| 03:27.32 | Suppy | You enter through the Gorodniye gate, |
| 03:27.39 | Suppy | And anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours later, |
| 03:27.43 | Suppy | You arrive near the Sius gate |
| 03:27.48 | Suppy | The gates must be paired |
| 03:27.57 | Suppy | Interstellar travel (that is, surveying sites and building gates) takes years |
| 03:28.10 | Suppy | It's effectively useless save for making gates or running away with your lover or whatever |
| 03:28.27 | Suppy | Ship-level FTL does not exist |
| 03:28.30 | Suppy | 99.9% of the time |
| 03:28.35 | AdmiralPanda | so they're FTL enablers |
| 03:28.43 | AdmiralPanda | that was all I really needed to know :P |
| 03:29.41 | Suppy | Yeah |
| 03:29.49 | Suppy | No post-scarcity economies, |
| 03:29.57 | Suppy | Just basic income systems and lots of new tech sectors |
| 03:30.05 | Suppy | Ships and space equipment is necessary and ubiquitous |
| 03:30.08 | Suppy | But expensive to make |
| 03:30.22 | Suppy | omh |
| 03:30.25 | Suppy | 127 billion citizens |
| 03:30.27 | Suppy | Not 127, sorry |
| 03:30.32 | Suppy | That would be a GDP/C under one dollar... |
| 03:31.26 | DarcySupremest | Imagine missiles that moved upon 5th dimensional plain |
| 03:32.07 | DarcySupremest | as in the ship launched it and the rocket doesn't fly through space, it flys trhough time to the point the ship is where it is at that point in time |
| 03:32.09 | DarcySupremest | and then hits it |
| 03:37.30 | Suppy | Warfare at that point becomes a bit of a moot point, no? |
| 03:41.29 | DrodoEmpire | SAme can be said for the 21st century. :P People'll always find excuses for more war |
| 03:41.45 | DrodoEmpire | Anyway, I need to go |
| 03:41.49 | DrodoEmpire | Bye everyone |
| 04:08.09 | TekDroid | Damnit, I was caught murdering my inbred grandson. XD |
| 04:20.18 | OfficerJackal | Firefox keeps freezing when trying to view videos off reddit. |
| 04:20.23 | OfficerJackal | It is time to kill the fox. |
| 04:36.58 | *** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:2:4281:12f0:65d4:997f:439:c31) |
| 05:14.48 | AdmiralPanda | hi |
| 05:15.47 | The_Randomness | hey |
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| 11:04.56 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapWorker] by ChanServ |
| 11:06.22 | PandaMechanicus | hi all |
| 11:11.51 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (5164f74b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.100.247.75) |
| 11:12.49 | OluapWorker | spu |
| 11:13.04 | Xho | u |
| 11:15.13 | Xho | ffs be right back |
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| 11:51.53 | *** join/#sporewiki _Wormy_ (520d1dc5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.13.29.197) |
| 11:52.04 | _Wormy_ | Hi |
| 11:55.29 | PandaMechanicus | hi |
| 11:57.46 | _Wormy_ | I now feel symmetrical again |
| 12:04.41 | _Wormy_ | Panda: http://imgur.com/gallery/JuHnlSY |
| 12:05.57 | PandaMechanicus | why you link this Hachi-bait to me? |
| 12:12.12 | _Wormy_ | I thought it was Panda-bait too, since you often comment on Hachi-bait |
| 12:13.05 | _Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/rMNkkqW |
| 12:18.40 | Xho_ | Technobliterator: Space Dementia by Muse has 25 chords in the song |
| 12:20.25 | ImpyDroid | http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/559949/Vladimir-Putin-Simon-Parkes-alien-Ukraine-Russia-Labour-councillor PUTIN IS ALIEN |
| 12:24.38 | ImpyDroid | _Wormy_: Take a look at the link above |
| 12:24.40 | _Wormy_ | Impy: Yorkshire |
| 12:25.15 | _Wormy_ | ImpyDroid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpxCDjJwUXg |
| 12:29.32 | _Wormy_ | Anyway, I thought the Nordics were acting on the interests of the whole of Humanity |
| 12:32.09 | Xho_ | Only the Brits could name a terrorist 'Jihadi John'. No other country could get away with it |
| 12:32.14 | ImpyDroid | Aka Putin's world dictatorship hur |
| 12:36.45 | _Wormy_ | Impy: There was a thing in the news the other week about spotting the profile of Russian bombers |
| 12:37.15 | _Wormy_ | After several were escorted from our airspace |
| 12:40.28 | ImpyDroid | You mean, in British air? |
| 12:41.15 | Xho_ | It's been happening a lot recently |
| 12:41.51 | PandaMechanicus | Putin decided it's dick-waving time |
| 12:42.33 | ImpyDroid | Putin - They see me flyin', they hatin' |
| 12:42.46 | ImpyDroid | Not sure why would that be necessary |
| 12:42.56 | ImpyDroid | Other than to troll the West a bit |
| 12:43.25 | Xho_ | That's pretty much it |
| 12:43.37 | Xho_ | All we do is just escort them out of our airspace |
| 12:43.54 | PandaMechanicus | hence why I called it dick-waving, he's not actually going to do anything with it so he's just waving it in people's faces |
| 12:44.19 | Xho_ | I'm not sure what Russia's military is like compared to the USA and UK combined |
| 12:44.31 | Xho_ | Sizeable enough I imagine |
| 12:44.41 | PandaMechanicus | big but inferior point for point |
| 12:44.48 | ImpyDroid | Ya |
| 12:45.30 | ImpyDroid | We generally do not want an open confrontation, at this point Putin is just trying to keep NATO away |
| 12:45.32 | PandaMechanicus | unfortunately Russia is not the Imperial Guard, and does not have the option of burying the opponent in the bodies of their own dead |
| 12:45.44 | Xho_ | I wonder how long it will be before military technology weaponises bomb disposal drones |
| 12:46.02 | PandaMechanicus | drone missiles already exist |
| 12:46.10 | PandaMechanicus | oh bomb disposal |
| 12:46.17 | Xho_ | Or those walker drones |
| 12:46.24 | PandaMechanicus | well we already have remote-controlled bomb disposal robots |
| 12:46.31 | _Wormy_ | Yeah |
| 12:46.35 | PandaMechanicus | probably wouldn't use a drone because no two bombs are alike |
| 12:47.00 | ImpyDroid | Our goal as of now is not to let Ukraine into NATO and generally scare the West |
| 12:47.39 | PandaMechanicus | the latter of which isn't going to happen because the west is like "yeah we got better bombs than you" |
| 12:47.59 | Xho_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog Or this thing |
| 12:48.12 | ImpyDroid | Oh that and Putin wants to improve his own popularity by scaring the populace |
| 12:48.20 | Xho_ | Put guns on that and have a Benny Hill soundtrack and laugh |
| 12:48.53 | ImpyDroid | I think the USA are pulling a similar strategy with us and the growing threat of Islamism |
| 12:48.58 | PandaMechanicus | the Benny Hill soundtrack completes it |
| 12:49.08 | Xho_ | Don't exactly know the cost for one of those though |
| 12:49.24 | Xho_ | Tens of thousands I'd hazard a guess |
| 12:49.43 | PandaMechanicus | ImpyDroid: A) it's just Islam, no ism on the end, and B) It's not Islam that's the problem, it's fanatics that forget that the other half of the koran is about being nice |
| 12:49.57 | Xho_ | I mean the technology inside of it is a one cylinder engine and hydraulics |
| 12:50.29 | PandaMechanicus | by percentage the bible has about as much talk of war against the infidels as the koran does, but even the fanatics don't bring that part up nowadays |
| 12:50.36 | ImpyDroid | PandaMechanicus: Islamism is a different word, one's a religion and the other is a political ideology |
| 12:50.48 | Xho_ | We're just going through the Islamic Dark Ages atm |
| 12:50.56 | PandaMechanicus | ^ to Xho |
| 12:51.03 | Xho_ | 800 years from now we'll just be having a laugh at it |
| 12:51.12 | PandaMechanicus | Islam is still in its stupid phase, sooner or later they'll either blow themselves up or get over it |
| 12:51.17 | ImpyDroid | Anyway my point is that both Putin and the American government use external enemies whom they demonise to maintain stabikity in their own realm |
| 12:51.19 | ImpyDroid | Agree |
| 12:51.35 | PandaMechanicus | ImpyDroid: Everyone uses external enemies. Except Australia. |
| 12:51.41 | ImpyDroid | Ya |
| 12:51.42 | PandaMechanicus | We have Abbott, we don't need external enemies. |
| 12:51.45 | ImpyDroid | Hur |
| 12:52.00 | Xho_ | http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2015/02/25/energy-australia-couldnt-read-meter/ NAH M8 |
| 12:52.28 | ImpyDroid | We have evil Muhrica and its evil Ukrainian and European lapdogs |
| 12:52.37 | ImpyDroid | America has evil Russkies and evil Muslims |
| 12:52.38 | PandaMechanicus | I still love that he thought it would be a nice idea to give an australian knighthood to the queen's consort |
| 12:52.49 | PandaMechanicus | and Australia has a dumbshit PM |
| 12:54.51 | Xho_ | https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/14220_10153047548372488_5137534892788019901_n.jpg?oh=caf278a775093ca6f23f80e262e6a6ab&oe=558D4DC2&__gda__=1430806787_5dbd20937ce69f702cad7b189f4fd1f0 |
| 12:56.05 | ImpyDroid | Random fact: the current Ukrainian president owns a chocolate factory business |
| 12:56.16 | PandaMechanicus | well, Ned is a bit dead so he's not afraid anymore |
| 12:56.25 | Xho_ | And so is Drogo |
| 12:56.29 | Xho_ | #neverforget |
| 12:56.40 | PandaMechanicus | still a lot of dothraki left |
| 12:57.43 | PandaMechanicus | btw, there needs to be someone in one of the fantasy verses that has dialogue of a ham-level equivalent to the lovechild of Liberty Prime and the tank commander of the Baneblade in Dawn of War |
| 12:58.22 | Xho_ | Good lord |
| 12:58.34 | Xho_ | I think Norrigan sort of fills that |
| 12:58.44 | Xho_ | Or Kimorgos some time ago |
| 12:58.51 | PandaMechanicus | "FAILURE IS THE WEAKNESS OF THE ENEMY" "Revised stratagem: DESTRUCTION OF ALL COMMUNISM" |
| 12:58.51 | ImpyDroid | I actually thought of making a Liberty Prime expy for the Empire |
| 12:59.14 | ImpyDroid | Actually I quoted LP for some of the Empire's quotes |
| 12:59.28 | Xho_ | ImpyDroid: "DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO SHIARCHON." Shiarchon - tru dat |
| 12:59.42 | ImpyDroid | Essentially yes |
| 13:00.09 | PandaMechanicus | "Voice module online. Designation: Liberty Prime. Mission: the liberation of the Imperium." |
| 13:00.19 | ImpyDroid | " Your path of revolution is the very definition of failure, elf-lovers. Embrace the Empire, or you will be eradicated." |
| 13:00.45 | PandaMechanicus | "DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE GREATER GOOD" |
| 13:01.04 | PandaMechanicus | it's funny because the Tau are space communists |
| 13:01.14 | ImpyDroid | Chinese communists even |
| 13:01.30 | PandaMechanicus | nah Tau aren't chinese, they're just goat-people |
| 13:01.55 | PandaMechanicus | they do get high a lot, but that's not really an indication of chinese heritage |
| 13:03.16 | PandaMechanicus | god playing Imperial Guard in DoW is worth it just for the sheer hamminess of the Baneblade and Kasrkin's voice lines |
| 13:03.49 | PandaMechanicus | everyone else is super serious and the Baneblade's commander is just like "Nuthin' like a stroll through the countryside!" |
| 13:07.08 | PandaMechanicus | that and the Kasrkin are clearly Australian- "That all? Could be worse." saying this as he's ordered to start murdering a good thirty space marines |
| 13:08.20 | ImpyDroid | ELEVEN BARRELS OF HEEEEEEEELLL |
| 13:08.33 | PandaMechanicus | sadly only 10 of them get used |
| 13:08.54 | PandaMechanicus | the co-axial auto cannon doesn't fire |
| 13:09.55 | PandaMechanicus | in fact, all the high-end Guard units have hammy lines |
| 13:15.18 | *** join/#sporewiki LeagueOfPanda (79df68e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.223.104.233) |
| 13:24.29 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapWorker (bd1a9909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.26.153.9) |
| 13:24.30 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapWorker] by ChanServ |
| 13:29.00 | Xho_ | UPS |
| 13:32.11 | OluapWorker | Hi |
| 13:33.42 | Xho_ | I meant |
| 13:33.43 | Xho_ | ups |
| 13:33.46 | Xho_ | Caps lock |
| 13:35.08 | _Wormy_ | http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/feb/26/found-a-black-hole-12-billion-times-the-size-of-the-sun?CMP=share_btn_fb |
| 13:40.14 | Xho_ | 12.8 billion times the size of the sun |
| 13:40.22 | Xho_ | Sorry not 12.8 |
| 13:40.22 | Xho_ | 12 |
| 13:41.02 | Xho_ | That's over 1500 light years |
| 13:47.21 | _Wormy_ | The title is misleading, thats mass not diameter. I have calculated its diameter to 1.42347336 AU, so it would swallow Earth easily if put in the centre (I might need Ghelae to check my calc) |
| 13:47.40 | _Wormy_ | There is no upper limit to the size of a black hole |
| 13:47.43 | _Wormy_ | however |
| 13:47.55 | _Wormy_ | Some physicist think the universe is one |
| 13:52.50 | Xho_ | Right |
| 13:53.05 | Xho_ | Well yeah it would |
| 13:53.13 | Xho_ | 1 AU is the distance from the Earth to the Sun |
| 13:53.31 | Xho_ | Roughly anyway |
| 13:54.27 | Xho_ | Earth's aphelion is 1.01 AU I think |
| 13:55.46 | _Wormy_ | The black hole in the Central Phoenix cluster could swallow the solar system many times http://youtu.be/QgNDao7m41M?t=2m40s |
| 14:14.13 | *** join/#sporewiki Jepardi (b24b970e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.75.151.14) |
| 14:14.29 | Jepardi | Hi |
| 14:40.51 | ImpyDroid | http://lurkmore.so/images/8/86/Coca-cola_pinus.jpg Hachi's favourite drink |
| 14:42.08 | _Wormy_ | lol |
| 14:50.34 | *** join/#sporewiki Xho (5164f74b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.100.247.75) |
| 14:51.04 | _Wormy_ | can't beat beetroot |
| 14:51.12 | _Wormy_ | hi |
| 14:56.39 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapWorker (bd1a9909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.26.153.9) |
| 14:56.40 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapWorker] by ChanServ |
| 14:56.46 | Xho | second return of ups |
| 14:56.59 | Xho | _Wormy_: Beetroot is weird |
| 14:57.26 | _Wormy_ | It makes a surprisingly good chocolate cake |
| 14:57.29 | Xho | u wat |
| 14:57.37 | OluapWorker | This week is being nothing but awful followed by terrible |
| 14:57.45 | _Wormy_ | Gives it an earthy texture |
| 15:00.00 | Xho | Life is generally terrible |
| 15:00.04 | Xho | Or bleak |
| 15:00.34 | *** join/#sporewiki Ghelae (059700ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.0.236) |
| 15:00.35 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 15:00.38 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 15:00.41 | _Wormy_ | Hio |
| 15:01.27 | _Wormy_ | You people need more cake in your lives |
| 15:01.50 | _Wormy_ | claps for the resident baker |
| 15:04.29 | _Wormy_ | claps again |
| 15:05.21 | _Wormy_ | ... |
| 15:05.35 | _Wormy_ | Stoopid stubborn sentient baking machine |
| 15:05.52 | ImpyDroid | http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Catgirls+a+parody+i+made+of+something+i+seen_30e880_3872593.jpg |
| 15:05.58 | ImpyDroid | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:06.29 | ImpyDroid | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:08.21 | Ghelae | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:09.47 | Wormy_away | ImpyDroid: Because it promotes and enables animal abuse http://imgur.com/gallery/JuHnlSY |
| 15:18.13 | Xho | Or...just give someone a headband with cat ears and a fake cat tail |
| 15:18.25 | Xho | To engage in whatever weird sexual fantasies you might have |
| 15:18.39 | Wormy_away | Don't forget the paws |
| 15:18.45 | Xho | And paws |
| 15:21.16 | Technobliterator | Xho, 25 chords? holy fuck 0.0 |
| 15:21.30 | Xho | How long did that take you to reply geezush |
| 15:21.35 | Technobliterator | urm |
| 15:21.49 | Technobliterator | 3 hours and 3 minutes, it seems |
| 15:22.24 | Xho | http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/m/muse/space_dementia_crd.htm Here they all are |
| 15:24.46 | LeagueOfPanda | OluapWorker: What's so particularly terrible? |
| 15:25.23 | OluapWorker | Among other things, real life |
| 15:27.38 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (51843b0d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.132.59.13) |
| 15:27.39 | Hachiman | Hai |
| 15:27.58 | LeagueOfPanda | hai u |
| 15:28.38 | OluapWorker | ~cuddle Hachiman |
| 15:28.38 | infobot | ACTION grabs Hachiman and cuddles until Hachiman begs for mercy |
| 15:29.07 | Hachiman | <3 |
| 15:29.10 | ImpyDroid | Hi |
| 15:52.32 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.90.42) |
| 15:52.43 | TekDroid | Hello |
| 15:53.21 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@134.117.249.91) |
| 15:55.22 | Tek0516 | The new EUIV update and DLC are out. :D |
| 15:57.29 | Hachiman | https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/11018822_1047177681969909_9017782096962831735_o.png "Octopus sex is a bit of a mindfuck" |
| 15:59.24 | OluapWorker | I expected a Cthulhu joke |
| 16:10.08 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (51843b0d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.132.59.13) |
| 16:10.09 | Hachiman | Fuck sake goddamn shit piss fuck |
| 16:10.50 | Wormy_away | wb |
| 16:13.58 | OluapWorker | pls no bully |
| 16:15.49 | Wormy_away | http://imgur.com/gallery/gz58GJz |
| 16:16.02 | Wormy_away | "Failing to express frustration is the most frustrating thing ever" |
| 16:20.09 | Tek0516 | lol |
| 16:21.59 | ImpyDroid | Hachiman: http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Catgirls+a+parody+i+made+of+something+i+seen_30e880_3872593.jpg |
| 16:23.16 | Hachiman | Why is everybody sending me catgirls today |
| 16:24.23 | ImpyDroid | Becauee they lighten up one's mood |
| 16:25.10 | OluapWorker | Why question it |
| 16:25.14 | ImpyDroid | Xho Hachiman OluapWorker: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/559949/Vladimir-Putin-Simon-Parkes-alien-Ukraine-Russia-Labour-councillor It all makes sense now |
| 16:25.15 | OluapWorker | I wouldn't mind it |
| 16:25.49 | Hachiman | Speaking of aliens |
| 16:25.52 | OluapWorker | Well we went from catgirls to reptilian-Putin alliance |
| 16:26.00 | OluapWorker | That escalated quickly |
| 16:26.35 | Hachiman | The new Alien film that Neill Blomkamp and Sigourney Weaver are making is disregarding Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection thankfully |
| 16:28.11 | Wormy_away | Progress |
| 16:28.59 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.90.26) |
| 16:30.56 | TekDroid | ...whoops. >.> Accidentally left my alarm was on and has been blasting across the floor for half an hour. That would explain why it didn't go off when it was supposed to. |
| 16:31.07 | TekDroid | >.> |
| 16:36.39 | ImpyDroid | Peppa Pig shares her favorite Hymn: http://youtu.be/K65njjDehEU |
| 16:50.39 | _Wormy_ | I've been thinking about what future historians may call our era. I found the "accelerated era" and I think its a good one |
| 16:53.20 | Hachiman | Hm |
| 16:59.01 | OluapWorker | Waifu Era |
| 16:59.29 | OluapWorker | The times when we embraced virtual reality to be with our 2D mistresses |
| 17:01.05 | LeagueOfPanda | worse things could happen |
| 17:02.53 | _Wormy_ | lol |
| 17:08.30 | _Wormy_ | Think they should be taught both http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bear-grylls-calls-british-schools-5207076 |
| 17:25.13 | Hachiman | Goddammit |
| 17:25.20 | Hachiman | One of my friends got rejected by some gir; |
| 17:25.22 | Hachiman | girl |
| 17:25.33 | Hachiman | Now I have to console him and I am terrible at consoling people |
| 17:35.55 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapWorker (bd1a9909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.26.153.9) |
| 17:35.56 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapWorker] by ChanServ |
| 17:36.03 | OluapWorker | Goddamnit |
| 17:36.16 | Xho | dam u |
| 18:08.08 | _Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:08.50 | _Wormy_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:11.07 | Hachiman | Oh fuck that isn't good |
| 18:22.55 | _Wormy_ | http://imgur.com/gallery/91h2Oc9 |
| 18:23.00 | _Wormy_ | Lovethe comments |
| 18:28.48 | _Wormy_ | Or fiction http://imgur.com/gallery/fULGO |
| 18:37.16 | *** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (51843b0d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.132.59.13) |
| 18:37.20 | Hachiman | Either my IRC disconnected or shit was really quiet |
| 18:41.27 | _Wormy_ | I think its your browser actually switching you off |
| 18:41.33 | _Wormy_ | " [Quit:]" |
| 18:41.51 | _Wormy_ | Rather than timed out |
| 18:42.11 | Hachiman | Huh |
| 18:44.07 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian (562d6746@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.45.103.70) |
| 18:44.07 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 18:44.13 | _Wormy_ | hi |
| 18:44.17 | Cyrannian | Hello. |
| 18:45.16 | Hachiman | Hai |
| 18:48.36 | *** join/#sporewiki OluapWorker (bffb7aa5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.191.251.122.165) |
| 18:48.37 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o OluapWorker] by ChanServ |
| 18:48.42 | _Wormy_ | Cyrannian: http://imgur.com/gallery/3dgvVsO |
| 18:49.33 | Cyrannian | hur |
| 18:49.38 | Cyrannian | ~tickle OluapWorker |
| 18:49.38 | infobot | ACTION jumps on OluapWorker, yelling "TICKLE FIGHT!!!!" |
| 18:49.50 | OluapWorker | ~destroy Cyrannian |
| 18:49.50 | infobot | no |
| 18:50.35 | _Wormy_ | Would make a great prank if set up right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MMqlzXo1k8 |
| 18:56.56 | *** join/#sporewiki odell (~dpessimis@unaffiliated/drom) |
| 18:58.03 | _Wormy_ | hi |
| 19:03.30 | TekDroid | >.< I've spent an hour or two staring at the EUIV start screen trying to decide what nation to play. |
| 19:06.13 | odell | Hello |
| 19:06.27 | odell | I feel so fucking tired |
| 19:06.44 | odell | Our lingunstics teacher forced us into another lecture late at the evening. |
| 19:07.40 | odell | About 10-11 hrs at the school today. |
| 19:07.43 | odell | Fucking brilliant. |
| 19:12.44 | _Wormy_ | I just saw my lecturer from Uni of Leicester on TV |
| 19:14.17 | *** join/#sporewiki Imperios (~Imperios@95.140.92.52) |
| 19:15.18 | _Wormy_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-39edpXh9U |
| 19:15.24 | _Wormy_ | He is very passionate |
| 19:27.49 | Imperios | http://cs622130.vk.me/v622130346/1728e/7xPL4EBq_u4.jpg |
| 19:28.43 | Hachiman | The fucking English in that translation |
| 19:29.35 | OluapWorker | GIRL RESPONSIBLE FOR SATAN |
| 19:29.37 | Imperios | I think it should be "You were created by Satan, not God" |
| 19:31.58 | *** join/#sporewiki Vincent20100 (b8a1360d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.161.54.13) |
| 19:32.22 | Vincent20100 | test |
| 19:39.00 | TekDroid | Hello |
| 19:39.34 | TekDroid | Vincent20100: You try out the new EUIV stuff yet? |
| 19:43.06 | TekDroid | ~test |
| 19:43.06 | infobot | methinks test is not funny |
| 19:45.02 | Vincent20100 | Not yet |
| 19:45.22 | Vincent20100 | But I know what custom nations I'm going to make ^^ |
| 19:46.12 | TekDroid | Let me guess... most of Russia amd form the USSR? |
| 19:46.57 | Vincent20100 | Yah ^^ |
| 19:47.09 | Vincent20100 | I'm gonna make a custom Cold War scenario |
| 19:47.18 | Vincent20100 | With China, USA and Russia ^^ |
| 19:47.32 | TekDroid | If you want decent ideas you can only start with about a dozen provinces. |
| 19:47.56 | Vincent20100 | That's a shame |
| 19:48.35 | Vincent20100 | I would have like to fight off the USA or a Westernised PRC |
| 19:48.38 | TekDroid | It's supposed to be allow a reasonable game, not start with a continent in 1444. |
| 19:49.25 | TekDroid | You'd have to use 3/4 of your creation points just to create a western tech nation in the Americas. |
| 19:49.43 | TekDroid | The random world function is neat though. |
| 19:50.44 | Vincent20100 | The random New World option? |
| 19:50.55 | TekDroid | And it seems you can define as many custom nations as you want in the start. |
| 19:51.19 | TekDroid | No, there's a function that replaces the entire map with randomized countries. |
| 19:53.36 | TekDroid | Keeps cultural locations and tech group locations mostly the same but the nation territories are entirely random |
| 20:00.24 | Hachiman | https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11018826_1398982223482297_2064795257981117151_n.jpg?oh=65263dc169934cbc3a7864fe3aaa1b6c&oe=554C7356 Best |
| 20:01.28 | odell | Oh. It's Prometheus on TV here now. |
| 20:01.33 | odell | Is it worth watching? |
| 20:01.37 | Hachiman | No |
| 20:01.43 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (~DrodoEmpi@blk-222-237-162.eastlink.ca) |
| 20:01.45 | Hachiman | Prometheus is worth missing by a long shot |
| 20:01.50 | Hachiman | Hey Drodo |
| 20:01.51 | DrodoEmpire | Hey everyone |
| 20:02.04 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian (562d6746@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.45.103.70) |
| 20:02.04 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 20:02.36 | odell | Hey |
| 20:03.29 | *** join/#sporewiki Cyrannian_ (562d6746@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.45.103.70) |
| 20:03.31 | DrodoEmpire | One second... |
| 20:03.37 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Cyrannian] by ChanServ |
| 20:04.19 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (~DrodoEmpi@blk-222-237-162.eastlink.ca) |
| 20:04.59 | DrodoEmpire | Hm, weird. Another moment please, just trying new IRC stuff |
| 20:05.18 | *** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire (18deeda2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.222.237.162) |
| 20:05.32 | DrodoEmpire | Alright, this is good |
| 20:06.03 | odell | Hachiman: I guess I don't need to prepare myself by putting emergency paper and new pants. hur |
| 20:06.11 | odell | ... in reach* |
| 20:06.57 | odell | I admit it, that sentence went terribly. |
| 20:10.31 | TekDroid | DrodoEmpire: You try out the El Dorado expansion yet? |
| 20:10.36 | DrodoEmpire | Not yet |
| 20:15.14 | TekDroid | I've been trying to decide what to do, probably spent an hour or two trying to decide. XD |
| 20:19.20 | DrodoEmpire | That mesoamerican unit pack looks badass |
| 20:29.47 | *** join/#sporewiki Monet (05975317@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.83.23) |
| 20:29.53 | Monet | Hello |
| 20:30.28 | odell | Hello. |
| 20:30.59 | DrodoEmpire | Hey Monet |
| 20:32.30 | Hachiman | Hai |
| 20:49.48 | Hachiman | brb dinner |
| 21:00.00 | *** join/#sporewiki Ghelae (059700ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.0.236) |
| 21:00.01 | *** mode/#sporewiki [+o Ghelae] by ChanServ |
| 21:00.04 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 21:14.05 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@ru3.housing.carleton.ca) |
| 21:18.44 | DrodoEmpire | test |
| 21:24.21 | *** join/#sporewiki DarcySupremest (3a6ecd18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.110.205.24) |
| 21:27.47 | DarcySupremest | Morning gentlement |
| 21:27.57 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
| 21:29.04 | Hachiman | Hai |
| 21:32.37 | Monet | hello |
| 21:32.58 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 21:36.51 | DarcySupremest | How are we all today |
| 21:41.11 | Hachiman | I am alright I guess |
| 21:48.56 | odell | Well. Prometheus ain't that bad. But I fucking hate dr Shaw. |
| 21:49.45 | Hachiman | You should hate everyone in Prometheus |
| 21:49.48 | Hachiman | They're all fucking idiots |
| 21:50.53 | odell | muh sciencelogy, muh money, muh powers, muh privileges all at one place |
| 21:51.44 | odell | David is my only favorite. Tbh. |
| 21:52.22 | Monet | I have ot agree with Hachi on this. |
| 21:52.41 | Monet | Peter Weyland picked the brightest dumb people on Earth for his mission to make himself immortal. |
| 21:53.22 | _Wormy_ | I liked the music in Prometheus and the concept it had. But the movie does not deliver |
| 21:54.03 | Hachiman | Also I find it both ironic and stupid that Ridley Scott - the man who contributed to designing the iconic Xenomorph - would have his ancient precursor aliens look like big white men in suits |
| 21:54.21 | Hachiman | I say 'contributed' because it was Giger's idea after all |
| 21:56.00 | Monet | I think the primary contribution Scott had was going to Giger and asking "give me a really scary alien" wasn't it? |
| 21:56.11 | Hachiman | Yeah |
| 21:56.31 | Monet | Giger just so happened to have his dreams haunted by the personification of sadistic rape. |
| 21:56.39 | odell | I find the environment and the technology admirable though. |
| 21:57.47 | *** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d016b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.22.185) |
| 21:58.03 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 22:00.23 | Liquid_Ink | Hello |
| 22:04.10 | _Wormy_ | Hachi: I find it silly that such beings created life on Earth only a few thousand years ago, given the fossil record |
| 22:04.29 | _Wormy_ | That is what one of the things I don't get with the film |
| 22:05.21 | _Wormy_ | Unless Precursors were ancient humans I don't see how it works |
| 22:05.26 | Hachiman | I don't recall it being stated as only a few thousand years ago in-movie |
| 22:11.24 | Ghelae | The alternatives probably aren't much better, although it's not so bad if we assume that in this fictional universe there is a huge gap in recent human prehistory where the precursors put themselves into humanity's genetic ancestry. |
| 22:11.37 | Ghelae | Otherwise we end up with some insane convergent evolution. |
| 22:13.18 | Ghelae | The precursors also seeeming to have been basically unchanged since they first seeded life on Earth billions of years ago is some insane cultural stagnation too. |
| 22:13.34 | _Wormy_ | Hachi: I recall at the start of the film with the Precursor scene it gave a date to thousands or a million or so yrars ago |
| 22:15.23 | Hachiman | That scene was not set on Earth |
| 22:16.33 | Hachiman | As far as I can gather, the Engineers appeared and seeded the Earth with the building blocks for *human* life some millions of years ago rather than all life |
| 22:17.01 | Ghelae | That seems more reasonable. |
| 22:17.47 | Ghelae | It also saves them from having to pull off a Young-Earth creationist's dream and meticulously fabricate billions of years of fossils and biologically-altered geology. :P |
| 22:18.05 | Hachiman | Nonetheless it is a crappy premise |
| 22:18.05 | _Wormy_ | Alright, they could have manipulated our evolution |
| 22:20.08 | DarcySupremest | I never saw prometheus because I listened to my Alien fan friend who said to not do it |
| 22:20.45 | DarcySupremest | But I presumed the Engineers when they created out building blocks, I presume they implanted the like, protein strains we actually began as? |
| 22:20.56 | DarcySupremest | Or am I thinking about it more then the writer was |
| 22:21.15 | Hachiman | The latter |
| 22:21.17 | *** join/#sporewiki Vincent20100_ (b8a1360d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.161.54.13) |
| 22:21.25 | Hachiman | They never give an explanation as to how they do it |
| 22:21.28 | odell | DarcySupremest: It's a decent coin if you love watching for the concept and technicals. But it's a nightmare to sink in for the lore and the characters. |
| 22:22.11 | Hachiman | And the only reasoning behind *why* the Engineers created humanity - which basically amounts to "because they could" - is revealed in a scene that is not present in the final cut |
| 22:22.27 | Hachiman | Although it is implied at via interactions with David |
| 22:23.14 | DarcySupremest | To be fair if humanity could create life |
| 22:23.16 | DarcySupremest | we would |
| 22:23.21 | DarcySupremest | for the hell of it |
| 22:24.19 | Hachiman | That is fine and dandy but the one Engineer we actually get to see in the film wants to then go to Earth to *destroy* humanity for some unexplained reason |
| 22:25.26 | TekDroid | I'm sure the reason was planned for a sequel. |
| 22:25.31 | Monet | I came to the conclusion that Engineer was a soldier. |
| 22:26.01 | Monet | So there's a possibility that he wanted to destroy humanity because he was told to. |
| 22:26.06 | odell | I think they attempted to either destory the last traces of themselves. |
| 22:26.18 | odell | But leaving out their creations. |
| 22:26.20 | Hachiman | I am fine with that Engineer being part of some military organisation and thus kind of justifies why its ship was carrying presumably several hundred tons of what one could assume to be WMDs |
| 22:26.28 | Hachiman | But *why* |
| 22:26.38 | Monet | But why he was told ot destroy us...yeah that deserves some explination. |
| 22:26.55 | Hachiman | Humanity, at the point shown in Prometheus, is barely spacefaring by itself |
| 22:27.22 | Hachiman | The last presumable interactions between humanity and the Engineers was before recorded history |
| 22:27.45 | Monet | There's rumours that Jesus was an Engineer. |
| 22:28.01 | Hachiman | I wouldn't be surprised with Ridley Scott's horrendous plot direction |
| 22:28.39 | odell | I have to agree. That plot direction is so strange and confusing. It's barely a relevant addition to the universe. |
| 22:28.43 | odell | The* |
| 22:28.49 | Monet | I felt there was way too much religious talk i nthe film |
| 22:29.35 | Monet | Best I can work out, Shaw's belief that the Engineers were the source of God is circumstantial at best. |
| 22:29.47 | Monet | And yet she acted like she was 100% sure. |
| 22:29.55 | Hachiman | Also good luck trying to crucify something that is practically twice as tall as you, can break the human physiology with a flick of its arm |
| 22:30.54 | Ghelae | Tall, light-skinned, really ancient race. Hate humans. It's obvious. The Engineers are Orichalcum Elves, and they want to wipe out humanity because they're turning into Shiarchon. |
| 22:30.59 | Monet | Well apparently we managed it somehow. I have one theory that the Engineer was saw was so strong because of military-grade augmentations. |
| 22:31.09 | DarcySupremest | Speaking of bad Directors who didn't get the subtlies of the work they were involved with |
| 22:31.25 | DarcySupremest | Ridley Scott wanted to make Forever War into a movie |
| 22:31.30 | Monet | engineer we saw* |
| 22:31.34 | DarcySupremest | And he has the rights to it too It think |
| 22:31.40 | Hachiman | Fair enough, also the fact that the Engineer we see also happens to be wearing advanced, hi-tech armour |
| 22:31.55 | DarcySupremest | So, another book I love will probably be watered down |
| 22:31.59 | Monet | HAchiman: Knowing Giger, there's a solid chance that's also his skin. |
| 22:32.10 | Hachiman | Giger had no involvement with Prometheus |
| 22:32.41 | Monet | No but his art is about blending flesh and machine. |
| 22:32.45 | Hachiman | If he did I am sure he would not have allowed Ridley to turn his Space Jockey into steroid-abusing humanoid ubermensches |
| 22:33.25 | Monet | It looked to me like the Engineer's armour was blending with his skin around his neck and wrists. |
| 22:33.44 | Hachiman | Yeah but the opening scene showed us one of the Engineers in their underwear |
| 22:34.02 | Hachiman | So I am fairly sure it is simply armour, if maybe some form of tight-fitting body glove |
| 22:34.13 | Monet | http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/7/74/Prometheus_engineer_by_lady_shai-d5urj4d.png/revision/latest?cb=20140109013303 well here's the pilot |
| 22:34.16 | odell | Gotta go. |
| 22:34.27 | Monet | Maybe soldier-engineers have their armour grafted to their bodies? |
| 22:34.32 | Hachiman | Perhaps |
| 22:34.57 | _Wormy_ | Perhaps, so that it can heal itself |
| 22:35.11 | _Wormy_ | They are biotech engineers afterall |
| 22:36.16 | Hachiman | I prefer the original Giger design by miles |
| 22:36.23 | Monet | Oh yes. Definitely |
| 22:36.29 | Monet | A less human head for a start |
| 22:38.54 | Hachiman | The original Giger Space Jockey just felt like it fitted in so much better in a universe that also hosts things like the Xenomorph |
| 22:39.07 | Hachiman | Because it appears so alien and inhuman |
| 22:40.15 | Monet | The thing that bugged me a little was how the hell - given how the DNA dispersal scene - were humans and Engineers a 100% (not an approximation, a reading from a screen) match with each other? |
| 22:41.00 | Monet | If there was a idunno 99.2% or 99.5% match. then I would believe it |
| 22:41.12 | Hachiman | I wouldn't believe it even at that |
| 22:41.19 | Hachiman | Given how many factors can change our DNA |
| 22:41.29 | Monet | Yeah that would be the other issue |
| 22:41.44 | Hachiman | We share beyond half our DNA with stuff like bananas let alone crap from space |
| 22:41.55 | Ghelae | To quote myself from half an hour ago, "insane convergent evolution". It's certainly not realistic unless the manipulation was very carful over many millions of years. |
| 22:42.14 | Monet | Given the crudeness of the deployment, yeah, it is an insanely coincidental form of convergent evolution |
| 22:42.47 | Monet | Hachiman: I'm going by the fact we share 98% of our DNA with monkeys and that the dispersal scene implies that we are genetic descendants of engineers |
| 22:43.07 | Monet | chimpanzees or apes, can't remember which is 98% |
| 22:45.32 | Hachiman | Also the whole thing with breathable air on the world confuses me |
| 22:45.52 | Monet | Technically it was only breathable in the base |
| 22:45.52 | Hachiman | Well no a lot of stuff confuses me about Prometheus but |
| 22:46.09 | Hachiman | Even if the air was breathable, who knows what sort of contaminated crap could have been in it |
| 22:46.16 | Monet | Yeah that was my proble mtoo |
| 22:46.40 | Monet | Bacteria for one. |
| 22:47.09 | Hachiman | Also why would it be so perfectly scaled to the standards of modern humans who breath very different air from ancient humans, let alone air from pre-human times |
| 22:47.09 | Ghelae | Or ancient alien biological superweapons. |
| 22:48.29 | Hachiman | Aye hur |
| 22:48.45 | Monet | Actually I'm not sure if the atmosphere from 36,000BC was that different form today. |
| 22:49.00 | Monet | WHen compared to the atmosphere during the carboniferous period |
| 22:49.28 | *** join/#sporewiki Tek0516 (~TekDroid@24.114.81.72) |
| 22:49.41 | Ghelae | There would have been slightly different proportions of most gases, particularly carbon dioxide and man-made pollutants, but I think you'd struggle to notice. |
| 22:50.16 | Hachiman | Eh fair enough |
| 22:51.12 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@134.117.249.127) |
| 22:51.57 | TekDroid | Hello |
| 22:52.06 | Ghelae | Hello. |
| 23:00.39 | Ghelae | I'm going to go now. Bye! |
| 23:00.50 | *** part/#sporewiki Ghelae (059700ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.151.0.236) |
| 23:02.18 | Hachiman | http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---DpcG9cz--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/1101155455765354792.jpg So Square Enix had a go at redesigning Ironman |
| 23:02.23 | Hachiman | I quite like it at least |
| 23:02.53 | DrodoEmpire | Its pretty intricate |
| 23:02.56 | DrodoEmpire | But yeah its nice |
| 23:06.45 | DrodoEmpire | test |
| 23:14.25 | Hachiman | https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10429276_1166117783411279_8709520906250334679_n.jpg?oh=e09d2f26588ff74c564e87e5b1be3512&oe=557936D0&__gda__=1431259887_611f66085fb9821320a4091747878095 |
| 23:14.45 | DrodoEmpire | lol |
| 23:15.05 | _Wormy_ | Damn it I think the cold is attacking me |
| 23:19.46 | _Wormy_ | That barely perceptable itch in the back of the mouth, nose and sometimes ears |
| 23:19.51 | Hachiman | https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11034215_786599328084602_3489480359959526781_n.jpg?oh=9c1ccca683e25aedc8c4e2df94003277&oe=554E5A01 Dunno if fake |
| 23:20.36 | *** join/#sporewiki TekDroid (~TekDroid@24.114.99.9) |
| 23:33.10 | _Wormy_ | now its crawling into my throat, making it a tad drier |
| 23:34.56 | DrodoEmpire | Kick its ass wormy |
| 23:35.01 | DrodoEmpire | Its the only way you'll stop it |
| 23:35.33 | _Wormy_ | Have fun now cold, while you can. Before my immune system adapts and destroys you in the worst possible ways# |
| 23:36.23 | DrodoEmpire | Yeah, cold, watch the hell out. |
| 23:36.40 | DrodoEmpire | (See I'm being supportive) |
| 23:39.15 | _Wormy_ | It might be tree pollen. I sneeze a lot and get fiery sensations in my nose every February |
| 23:39.27 | _Wormy_ | I hope it is in this case |
| 23:47.53 | _Wormy_ | test |
| 23:48.49 | DrodoEmpire | Passed |
| 23:49.32 | *** join/#sporewiki Knight_Alien (62cebba2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.206.187.162) |
| 23:49.34 | Knight_Alien | Hello |
| 23:49.39 | DrodoEmpire | Hi |
