| 00:08.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | constantly, we still see at least 2..3 device orders per week :-) |
| 00:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | hardly ever a transaction like Oksana's though :-D |
| 00:11.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: you're sure your mail didn't have a digit too much in the value? |
| 00:11.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I'll notice anyway in a few days when the transfer comes in on account, but I'm curious) |
| 00:12.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | according to your comment(s) I tend to think it's correct |
| 00:12.53 | mvaenskae | DocScrutinizer05: well, i maybe able to (pre)order a device at the end of the week depending on the preliminary results :) |
| 00:13.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | which preliminary results? :-) |
| 00:13.51 | Oksana | Sure. I do not wish to have multiple transactions with multiple bank fees. :) Easier to do it in one go. |
| 00:14.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, of course :-D |
| 00:14.15 | mvaenskae | DocScrutinizer05: if i can commence my comp science studies |
| 00:14.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 00:14.22 | mvaenskae | first year exams |
| 00:15.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, exams. I think dos1 is suffering same workload impact right at the moment |
| 00:15.06 | mvaenskae | i better have passed, i worked really much the past months :( |
| 02:06.03 | b1101 | I'm still waiting for a refund, so I can pay in one large sum |
| 02:14.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh? |
| 02:15.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | b1101: please contact Nik! |
| 02:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | aka Golden Delicious Computers |
| 02:16.00 | b1101 | it was a cc purchase |
| 02:16.13 | b1101 | payment I should say |
| 02:16.23 | b1101 | so I don't know if they sent the refunds for those yet ? |
| 02:21.55 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@197.139-50-210.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 02:25.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui they should have, for all who declared what to do with their donation |
| 02:25.24 | b1101 | damn |
| 02:25.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | when did you advice GDC to send you a refund? |
| 02:25.37 | b1101 | a loooooong time ago |
| 02:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | then by all means please ask Nik what's going on |
| 02:26.02 | b1101 | I've been following this project from the beggining |
| 02:26.11 | b1101 | currently site is down... |
| 02:26.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh! |
| 02:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 02:27.20 | b1101 | wouldn't happen to know their email ? |
| 02:27.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be some update or whatever is running |
| 02:27.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, not the right one for this type of request |
| 02:27.50 | b1101 | sales@goldelico, but I don't know if that's where I should send it |
| 02:28.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | should work |
| 02:28.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | you must have received a order confirmation mail, no? |
| 02:28.27 | b1101 | yup |
| 02:28.30 | b1101 | saved it |
| 02:28.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | answer to it |
| 02:30.53 | b1101 | will do. Thanks |
| 02:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw! |
| 04:16.59 | *** join/#neo900 M13 (~MirandaLS@83.149.35.156) |
| 05:59.40 | wpwrak | josch_: thanks ! those things look good. (my approach didn't yield useful results :( ) as always, the key to finding is to know the right magic word - "oriented bounding box" in this case :) |
| 06:22.21 | josch_ | wpwrak: great that this could help. I'm working on my PhD on the topic of pointclouds and intersection tests right now so the terminology happened to be familiar to me. I can also very much relate that knowing the magic word is the key to finding all the material - happens all the time. ^^ |
| 07:00.06 | *** join/#neo900 infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 07:00.06 | *** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ | 2013-11-04 - the day our fundraiser reached its goal, 25k EUR | 2013-12-02 - 200 devices reached! | 12-14 50035EUR, 232 units | 01-17 60kEUR, 300 units | 02-28 333 units, 70k⬠| 03-28 350 units, 400 donations, 73555⬠| 0501 360 410 75k | 0712 183 ~30k | 0810 300 ~49k |
| 07:00.06 | *** mode/#neo900 [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
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| 08:55.18 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
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| 09:09.01 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
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| 10:00.24 | *** join/#neo900 modem (~modem@fsf/member/modem) |
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| 10:28.17 | wpwrak | hmm, the scanner makes scary noises when there's a deep narrow "valley". seems that it doesn't quite realize what the needle is doing. so it doesn't break contact and bends it ... until it snaps back on the next "ridge". i kinda wonder what that will look like in the mesh ... |
| 10:56.10 | dos1 | http://www.welivesecurity.com/2014/08/28/android-security-2/ |
| 11:05.04 | dos1 | woah |
| 11:05.06 | dos1 | http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/mysterious-phony-cell-towers-could-be-intercepting-your-calls |
| 11:05.13 | dos1 | "Though Goldsmith wonât disclose sales figures or even a retail price for the GSMK CryptoPhone 500, he doesnât dispute an MIT Technology Review article from this past spring reporting that he produces about 400 phones per week for $3,500 each" |
| 11:07.28 | dos1 | so who said Neo900 was expensive? ;) |
| 11:07.37 | drathir | mornin... |
| 11:55.19 | *** join/#neo900 che1 (~che@p5B073C64.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:06.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: see? that's our competitors |
| 13:24.45 | bencoh | haha |
| 13:25.40 | bencoh | "built on top of an unassuming Samsung Galaxy SIII body" hmm |
| 13:40.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, funny isn't it? |
| 13:41.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | we are building MUCH better and more secure hardware, and we allow our customers to audit the hardware and the software |
| 13:44.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I', already planning since half a year for a security-enhanced OS version that Neo900 actually offers for Neo900 phone. That combination beats the GSMK CryptoPhone 500 hands down, both regarding level of system-immanent security and sales price |
| 13:45.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | think of the OS like the Neo900 phone version of SLES |
| 13:59.27 | *** join/#neo900 bleb (~caleb@209-6-88-180.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 14:00.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | like SLES it won't come for free, particularly not the services that come with it |
| 14:04.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | but for now that's still vaporware |
| 14:06.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if user <modem> would be interested to contribute a zRTP over GSM voice app |
| 14:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | modem: ^^^ |
| 14:07.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 14:07.39 | bencoh | zRTP over gsm ? |
| 14:08.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, modem claims he might be able to do ~2kbit/s via GSM codec |
| 14:08.36 | modem | DocScrutinizer05, I sure want to do that |
| 14:08.38 | modem | I am unsure if i can have anything ready for the end of the year tho |
| 14:08.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is just enough for poor quality *encrypted* audio |
| 14:08.48 | bencoh | oh, well |
| 14:09.18 | bencoh | with some research you could do encrypted "analog" audio and skip the "digital" part |
| 14:09.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | modem: no problem, end of year is a date wed be happy to already ship Neo900 |
| 14:09.39 | modem | my statement of 2kbytes/s (for a 2kbps codec over zRTP) come from an academic paper research on Data over Voice Channel in GSM network |
| 14:09.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: please elaborate |
| 14:09.58 | modem | which i need to double-check if that would work at allat the claimed bandwitdh |
| 14:10.00 | bencoh | have a cipher work on audio samples, that would still be resistant to distorsion |
| 14:10.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | kBytes?? |
| 14:10.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | kbit, no? |
| 14:10.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | kbytes would be a miracle ;-) |
| 14:10.47 | modem | they claimed to be able to achieve 2kbytes |
| 14:10.49 | modem | mm |
| 14:11.13 | modem | anyhow if you seek for a codec with lowest bandwitch you come to 2kbps |
| 14:11.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe I'm completely pre-coffe now |
| 14:11.36 | modem | which you still need a few bytes for header / checksum at the data layer |
| 14:11.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | lower b usually is bits, uppercase B is Bytes |
| 14:13.18 | modem | you'r right |
| 14:13.25 | modem | it's achieving 1.2kpbs over gsm |
| 14:13.27 | modem | my bad |
| 14:13.51 | bencoh | v.22 sync ? |
| 14:14.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2014/09/02/plasma-desktopIy1987.png |
| 14:14.36 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: that's using a data circuit |
| 14:14.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's however raw data rates |
| 14:14.55 | bencoh | you cant achieve 9.6kbps on a gsm voice channel |
| 14:15.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously not since that's the OTA bandwidth of fullrate GSM codec |
| 14:16.04 | bencoh | your modem will try higher symbole rates/modulations and fallback to something less than v32 |
| 14:16.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | while 2 kBytes/s are 16kbits/s and that would be a miracle to compress into a media channel of 9.6kbit/s |
| 14:16.35 | bencoh | I think I had more than 1.2kbps here but still "far" from 9.6 |
| 14:18.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: I can't find anything about v.22 |
| 14:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | mind to share a pointer? :-) |
| 14:18.38 | bencoh | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ITU-T_V-Series_Recommendations :) |
| 14:19.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that v.22 signal will not pass the GSM codec |
| 14:20.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | to get any faintly reasonable datarates across a GSM voice codec, you basically need an inverse GSM codec as "modem" |
| 14:20.55 | bencoh | actually that's one of the few modem standards that would go through :) |
| 14:20.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | GSM codec is highly optimized for voice audio |
| 14:21.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I admit I never tested v.22 over GSM, but I'd have a hard time believing that it works OOTB |
| 14:23.41 | bencoh | they used carriers around usual voice frequencies |
| 14:23.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | also, very important to be sure about what you're actually using currently in your set: FullRate, EnhancedFullRate, or even HalfRate (4.8kb/s |
| 14:23.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ) |
| 14:24.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: yes, sure, since it been designed for analog landline phone |
| 14:24.23 | bencoh | precisely :) |
| 14:24.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the symbol speed on GSM however is pretty low |
| 14:25.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | means the oscillator frequency can only chnage so often per second |
| 14:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | since human voice can't do a v.22 signal |
| 14:26.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | it might sound like v.22 on the other end, but it will most likely have lost all info it's carrying and actually replaced by a poor imitation synthesized in the receiver side GSM codec |
| 14:28.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | GSM codec basically is a lossy compression method, with lots of loss |
| 14:29.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | "human doesn't hear it? fine, we don't encode it" just like mp3 |
| 14:29.09 | bencoh | :) |
| 14:29.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure the transmitted complex audio signal can *change* only 10 or 20 times per second |
| 14:31.50 | bencoh | I had a soft modem (v.22 and others) implementation around here (not from me) ... I should give it a try some day |
| 14:32.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, go ahead |
| 14:32.14 | bencoh | would need to find an easy way to plug that to both ends though |
| 14:32.24 | bencoh | I had it working other plain wires |
| 14:32.44 | bencoh | (and laptop linein/lineout) |
| 14:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | but there been master thesis' around about "how to squeeze more than 60b/s out of GSM codec" - I guess when v.22 would work, nobody had written such thesis |
| 14:33.46 | bencoh | actually http://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-13/dc13-presentations/DC_13-Tanner-Smith-Lareau.pdf does seem to squeeze more than 60b/s |
| 14:33.53 | bencoh | (I guess modem was talking about this paper) |
| 14:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | modem: you mentioned such paper. I've seen a similar one several years ago. You happen to have a URL? |
| 14:34.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: yes, obviously |
| 14:34.24 | *** join/#neo900 modem_ (~modem@139.82.73.86.rev.sfr.net) |
| 14:34.46 | modem_ | i have difficulties on the others terminal.. nevermind |
| 14:35.02 | modem_ | So the Data over voice Channel presentation is this : |
| 14:35.03 | modem_ | http://www.news.cs.nyu.edu/~aditya/Research_files/dhananjay-mobicom10-hermes.pdf |
| 14:35.08 | modem_ | this is a good reading. I recommend |
| 14:35.30 | modem_ | it's achieving 1.2kpbs of bandwith (despite previous erroneous claiming) |
| 14:35.48 | modem_ | You have the FS-1015 codec that can achieve 800bp/s (yes!) |
| 14:36.05 | modem_ | i assume you have a very crappy voice quality but still audible |
| 14:36.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | voice codec? |
| 14:36.22 | modem_ | that's enough for a zRTP encrypted channel with a SAS security mechanism |
| 14:36.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, fine! :-) |
| 14:36.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, of course. zRTP is not havier than RTP |
| 14:37.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | heavier |
| 14:37.15 | modem_ | " |
| 14:37.15 | modem_ | The standard was finished 1984. The algorithm used is a linear predictive coding vocoder. The vocoder enables understandable speech, but the quality is very unnatural and synthetic" about the FS-1015 |
| 14:37.39 | modem | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS-1015 |
| 14:37.48 | modem | i am experiencing IRC difficulties |
| 14:37.49 | modem | anyhow the FS-1015 codec can achieve 800bp/s bandwith |
| 14:37.49 | modem | while i suppose is a very cheap codec with poor quality |
| 14:37.58 | modem_ | (those message have 5minute lag) |
| 14:37.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | good enough for gangsters (read "politicians" ;-P) to share their sneaky secrets ;-) |
| 14:38.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch! |
| 14:39.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, freenode is under DDoS attacks since several days |
| 14:40.58 | modem_ | yea. Maybe that. Or because it ran xchat over a forwarded X SSH session :-) |
| 14:42.32 | bencoh | :] |
| 14:43.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fNJWkZL_cp0 never watched it completely |
| 14:44.10 | modem_ | basically i need to validate that the 1.2kbps are barely always doable (or the 1kpbs needed if we go for FS-1015) |
| 14:44.45 | modem_ | The fact that the algorithm has pretty good restoration with bit flip, lost bits etc make me think optimist |
| 14:47.40 | modem_ | I need to get back to work |
| 14:49.08 | modem_ | I am pretty much motivated in this project which is part of the larger project i am working on actually. It's a SIP Debuguer, much more like an scriptable engine to perform SIP manipulation (and a bunch of audio too) |
| 14:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | thabnks for the chat, modem_ :-) |
| 14:49.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks even |
| 14:49.50 | modem_ | The whole source code is going free. I'd like a lot to see an implementation of gsm end-to-end crypto for the neo900 based on this source |
| 14:50.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | about SIP you might want to have a look into twinklephone and/or talk to Michel deBoer |
| 14:50.22 | modem_ | maybe later with bluetooth support to be compatible with others non-hardware free phone |
| 14:50.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems he participated in SIP design and a number of related IETF RFCs |
| 14:50.53 | modem_ | thanks you, maybe will I ! I used extensively twinkle for half a decade |
| 14:51.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | despite he's working for Cisco again now, afaik, he might still be interested in a chat. when you can reach him |
| 14:51.52 | modem_ | noted! |
| 14:52.14 | modem_ | ttyl, bye :-) |
| 14:52.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway twinkle been the SIP reference implementation for all SIP-VoIP providers |
| 14:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | they tested their services with twinkle |
| 14:53.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it also started as a debugger/protocol-analyzer. Adding RTP and ALSA and a GUI been just fancy addons Michel did, his main interest been SIP |
| 14:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I know modem logged out :-D just for the record aka chanlog) |
| 14:55.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | my main interest/domain been usability/GUI and scripting, in twinkle. Also a bit of ALSA |
| 14:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and I18N |
| 14:57.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's prolly why german translation is roundabout 5 times the size of any other localization |
| 14:57.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 15:06.57 | *** join/#neo900 infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 15:06.57 | *** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ | 2013-11-04 - the day our fundraiser reached its goal, 25k EUR | 2013-12-02 - 200 devices reached! | 12-14 50035EUR, 232 units | 01-17 60kEUR, 300 units | 02-28 333 units, 70k⬠| 03-28 350 units, 400 donations, 73555⬠| 0501 360 410 75k | 0712 183 ~30k | 0810 300 ~49k |
| 15:06.57 | *** mode/#neo900 [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 15:35.50 | wpwrak | hmm. scanning software corrupts STL text export when there's a lot of point. thank you, murphy. you're still employee #1. |
| 15:36.00 | wpwrak | fortunately, binary seems okay |
| 15:37.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! |
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| 15:45.13 | *** part/#neo900 IAm_thor (~PircBotX@31.221.70.157) |
| 15:59.56 | wpwrak | now with 100 um: http://neo900.org/stuff/werner/scans/ |
| 16:01.04 | wpwrak | the holes look oddly elliptical. but that may be a distortion from meshview. |
| 16:03.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | you think so? I see they look exactly that odd like in your scan :-D |
| 16:04.44 | wpwrak | ah yes, some of them aren't exactly circular. indeed. |
| 16:04.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and blogged :-D |
| 16:05.06 | wpwrak | thanks ! :) |
| 16:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 16:07.27 | wpwrak | next: remove stylus (which i hadn't even noticed before the scanner tried to eject it), clean the inside (i had noticed that area being unusually dirty *, though), then do a partial rescan of that area. |
| 16:08.33 | wpwrak | (*) they cleaned the critter remarkably well. must have taken it apart for that. but this is the spot where i found something. coppery-greenish. |
| 16:08.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 16:09.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope it's not the pathetic remants of the oxidized FMTX antenna |
| 16:10.25 | wpwrak | i'll see soon :) but yes, i suspect it is really copper. the color is exactly right. |
| 16:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 16:12.37 | jake42 | hi DocScrutinizer05, just been at the fablab in E |
| 16:12.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders how much of such negligible details like FMTX ant are actually included when you get one of those cheap chinese replacement cases |
| 16:13.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | jake42: fine! :-) |
| 16:13.14 | jake42 | they also got some roland 2.5d scanner from the 90's |
| 16:13.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea about such critter |
| 16:14.01 | jake42 | works with a needle etc.. |
| 16:14.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 16:14.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | so very similar to what wpwrak just completed for 100µm |
| 16:14.31 | jake42 | exactly |
| 16:14.46 | jake42 | thats what I wanted to convey |
| 16:15.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | were you able to get a contact addr for N? |
| 16:16.20 | wpwrak | hmm. mine is a roland 2.5D scanner from the 90es ;-) |
| 16:16.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 16:16.33 | jake42 | but there migth also be people active in this fablab which have connections to a chair which does professional contactless 3dscanning |
| 16:16.45 | wpwrak | (well, design age. i bought it a bit later) |
| 16:16.50 | jake42 | :-) |
| 16:17.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, missed to give TH a call |
| 16:17.52 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: (fmtx in chinese case) i guess you'll soon be the world's leading expert on that topic :) |
| 16:17.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, c u l8r, RL calling. *loudly* |
| 16:18.00 | jake42 | DocScrutinizer05: if you wonder about fablab in N: fablab-nuernberg.de |
| 16:18.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | jake42: thanks! |
| 16:18.47 | jake42 | I'll see if I find someone with connections to the professional 3dscanning stuff |
| 16:20.04 | jake42 | though I'm not sure if we need a complet 3d-model |
| 16:20.22 | jake42 | wpwrak |
| 16:20.35 | jake42 | wpwrak's work looks very promising already |
| 16:24.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a bit hard to spot, but at least from https://www.facebook.com/FabLabNuernberg/photos_albums I gather it's Quelle building, opposite side of AEG at Fuerther? |
| 16:25.16 | wpwrak | aah ! now i get it. that problem spot on the wall is a long rubberish structure with the buttons. so it yields to pressure. small wonder that the scanner got confused. |
| 16:25.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's exactly *one* thing there I'd like to check out further: lasercutter. *Might* be able to cut the battery bay steel |
| 16:25.46 | jake42 | their page says, Halle14 auf AEG, Muggenhofer Str 141 |
| 16:25.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's AEG then |
| 16:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.facebook.com/FabLabNuernberg/photos/pb.344834695556229.-2207520000.1409674977./775681859138175/?type=3&theater |
| 16:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | "fablab stuff relaxing" ? |
| 16:26.54 | wpwrak | a laser cutter that cuts steel. hmm. i'd be a bit afraid to know something like that in the hands of the next hacklab :) |
| 16:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | staff even |
| 16:27.57 | jake42 | the lasercutters in the labs in N and ER can't cut steel |
| 16:28.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | any lasercutter has to be 'safe' or it mustn't get into the hands of noobs |
| 16:28.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok |
| 16:28.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | then that's that |
| 16:28.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | gonna get my 250W IR tube ;-P |
| 16:28.52 | jake42 | 30-40W is not enought |
| 16:28.57 | jake42 | ;-) |
| 16:29.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually, I guess you need a certan minimum energy to make the steel evaporate, then the sheet thickness is the minor problem |
| 16:30.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/evaporate/oxidize/ ; maybe |
| 16:30.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | but then, your cutting spot gets covered with oxide that spoils further cutting |
| 16:31.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I admit I have NFC |
| 16:31.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, yes 40W sounds a bit on the low side for cutting steel |
| 16:32.09 | *** join/#neo900 M13 (~MirandaLS@2a02:17d0:d5:2300:39c0:daae:35c:9370) |
| 16:32.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, you never know, that dude melted tin with 2 * 3W lasers |
| 16:33.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, ERSA micro has 5W iirc ;-) |
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| 16:36.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | that was not easy to find: http://www.ersa.de/index.php?modul=entry&id=275&entry_id=895 |
| 16:39.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | again: without the right term (word). It's not "micro" but "minor" |
| 16:40.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ bbl, afk |
| 16:45.14 | wpwrak | i think it's like with rockets: also fireworks need to be treated with respect, but even if you're happy with your neighbours having fun on the 31st of decemer, then you wouldn't want them to play with a fully fueled saturn V :) |
| 16:46.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's about safety? Laser cutters work in a closed compartment |
| 16:46.09 | wpwrak | hmm scanning software cheerfully announced it'll run out of memory, then merrily proceeded to start the scan. i wonder what comes next. |
| 16:46.19 | bencoh | :D |
| 16:47.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | look, your average microwave oven has 800W radiation power. Do you think it shouldn't get operated by anybody except HAM radio amateurs and radar technicians? |
| 16:54.32 | wpwrak | as so often, the key is not energy per se but density. compare a 100 J fist vs. a bullet |
| 16:54.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually the average laser cutter is probably less 'dangerous' that your 5mW laserpointer |
| 16:55.19 | wpwrak | i guess it depends on how good you are at bypassing the safeties ;-) |
| 16:55.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the laser cutter does focus the beam, which quickly results in the beam divirging after the focus distance |
| 16:55.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | diverging* |
| 16:56.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty much similar to DVD and bluray burners which also come with 1W and more |
| 16:57.52 | wpwrak | i wonder what the angle of that cone is. may still need quite a distance before it's weaker than a laser pointer, due to the enormous power difference |
| 16:58.46 | wpwrak | (quite a distance) and i mean in the order of tens of centimeters. not to the other end of the country :) |
| 16:59.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I guess bypassing the safety measures of your microwave oven is easier than on a lasercutter which is prolly much saver than microwave even when run in a pathological state |
| 16:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | the focus distance seems to be in the range of 1..5cm at max |
| 17:01.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | what, depending on lens/aperture, means that at 10cm distance you already have 1/100 to more like 1/10000 of the "brightness" |
| 17:02.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | aka Watts/area |
| 17:02.50 | wpwrak | yes, 1/100 if it focuses within 1 cm. more power if the focus distance is larger. |
| 17:02.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | then the direction of the beam is pretty much fixed |
| 17:04.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, you forget to factor in the aperture size |
| 17:05.03 | wpwrak | i guess something like 1 mm2 ? |
| 17:05.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you compare it to the "brightness" at aperture/lens plane |
| 17:05.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | hardly, it's usually a lot more |
| 17:05.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | look at any arbitrary optical drive |
| 17:13.57 | wpwrak | dunno really. the (parallel) beams in large lab lasers seem to be in the order of 1 mm. but then, maybe they're different. |
| 17:14.13 | wpwrak | anyway, i wouldn't want to have it cross any part of my body ;-) |
| 17:21.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | lab lasers are not focused |
| 17:22.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | the cutting lasers have a relatively poor convergence and are focused more like a classical light source |
| 17:23.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | also the beam diameter might be larger than that of a lab laser |
| 17:24.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | when it's a tube, I'd assume they use the full tube diameter, which would be something in the range of 10mm or even more (talking outa my rear now) |
| 17:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | depending on mirror geometry you get either a uniform beam over the whole diameter, or the beam concentrates to the middle aka center of the (parabolic) mirror |
| 17:26.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | for semiconductor lasers the crystal gets larger for stronger Wattage, so does beam "diameter" (actually often a rectangle) |
| 17:30.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5673/img20120704130416medium.th.jpg |
| 17:31.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img641/6022/p1018980.jpg |
| 17:32.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://laserpointerforums.com/f65/new-9mm-445-diodes-73284-3.html#post1057373 |
| 17:32.38 | enyc | meeps |
| 17:43.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | is that a phonetic term? :-) |
| 17:43.38 | wpwrak | that battery bay metal evokes memories of pcmcia card holders ;-) |
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| 19:27.07 | enyc | wonders what happneed to neo900 PTIII ;p |
| 19:27.25 | enyc | "July Trilogy" |
| 19:41.53 | dos1 | dammit, someone noticed |
| 19:42.13 | dos1 | time to get back to work ;) |
| 20:02.16 | enyc | smile |
| 20:02.25 | enyc | says he, going off to NL for a bit on holiday ;p |
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