IRC log for #n9 on 20120702

00:12.31*** join/#n9 JackaLX (~steve@sxemacs/project-lead/JackaLX)
00:40.16*** join/#n9 mrmlz (
01:32.52*** join/#n9 psycho_oreos (~no@unaffiliated/tuxsavvy)
01:59.52*** join/#n9 mrmlz (
02:58.33*** join/#n9 herdingcat (huli@nat/redhat/x-ueymkeaavrycasgl)
02:58.50herdingcatis there any good n9 repo?
02:59.52psycho_oreosdefine good
03:00.21herdingcatpsycho_oreos, many apps
03:00.34herdingcatpsycho_oreos, just thought n9 is lacking of apps
03:01.42psycho_oreosherdingcat, that's a known deficit, you can't really resolve that known deficit simply because there are less than a handful of repo around
03:03.53psycho_oreosiinm there are only 5 repo for meego
04:47.39herdingcatpsycho_oreos, which 5?
04:59.04*** join/#n9 Arie (
04:59.18psycho_oreosherdingcat, including ovi (which isn't exactly a repo but anyway): harmattan-dev, apps for meego (testing and stable) and community-shared-repo
05:00.16Ariei came to the party late
05:07.39herdingcatpsycho_oreos, can you show me the url?
05:08.55psycho_oreosherdingcat, of which?
05:09.31herdingcatpsycho_oreos, those repos
05:12.17psycho_oreosherdingcat, will take me sometime typing it out by hand, though you can enable those through various means :p
05:18.35Ariepsycho_oreos: what is the easiest way to enable them?
05:20.26psycho_oreosArie, through mostly maybe ovi store (again I must stress that ovi is no longer a repo). Though apps for meego has their own little client app somewhere
05:21.15Ariepsycho_oreos: i despise ovi store and apps for meego is a very dead repor
05:21.30Ariepsycho_oreos: repo
05:22.27psycho_oreosArie, there aren't that many lively repo for GUI apps-wise :) I'm formidable with CLI stuff personally so things from harmattan-dev for instance would give me access to a wider range of `apps'
05:23.04Ariepsycho_oreos: Harmattan needed repos like maemo had
05:25.02psycho_oreosArie, unfortunately that won't happen as easily mainly due to a fair few circumstances
05:25.22Ariepsycho_oreos: what are those circumstances?
05:27.27psycho_oreosArie, to me: 1) aegis being the general pita, 2) uneven playing ground with devs and end users alike.. a fair few devs along with some lucky users gets N950 which initially acted differently compared to n9.. though N950 is still somewhat nice to have except nokia doesn't hand them out like lollies to the general public. 3) n9 is only being sold in selected countries, without worldwide coverage and with the hardware being sold from 3rd party, the n9
05:27.28psycho_oreosremains more niche imo than the previous maemo generations
05:29.53Ariepsycho_oreos: in response to 1)we have inception, in response to 2) it's an oversized paperweight, the N9 is a far better and more complete test bed, 3) i agree with
05:32.09psycho_oreosArie, 1) inception is not a do-all, be-all, end-all problem. 2) rather not imo.. I still loathe the idea that it lacks hardware keyboard.. like tremendously.. I could have gotten an iPhone or even mango powered phone if I wanted a pure touchscreen phone
05:34.39*** join/#n9 Arie (
05:35.01psycho_oreoswb, recapping on what I said:
05:35.05psycho_oreosArie, 1) inception is not a do-all, be-all, end-all problem. 2) rather not imo.. I still loathe the idea that it lacks hardware keyboard.. like tremendously.. I could have gotten an iPhone or even mango powered phone if I wanted a pure touchscreen phone
05:35.43Ariepsycho_oreos: from what I understans inception is a do-all, be-all, end-all
05:36.00Ariethe hardware keyboard on the N950 is ok at best
05:36.15psycho_oreosand none of maemo generations never did away without a hardware keyboard.. all had a hardware keyboard except n9
05:36.25Ariethe N9's keyboard feels more natural to me and I hate vkb's
05:36.55psycho_oreosinception is broken with the latest firmware iinm, and aegis still gets in the way with disallowing certain installations
05:36.55Ariebtw, wp and ios suck, ive tried both, i always come back to the n9 :)
05:37.18Arieinception v0.1.1 works flawlessly
05:37.23Arieas does
05:37.31Arieaegis disappearing
05:37.39Ariewhat doesn't allow you to install?
05:37.41psycho_oreosif I wanted vkb again, my point is I could have looked elsewhere, I did not initially wanted n9 purely because it lacked hardware keyboard
05:37.53psycho_oreosgnu-tar from harmattan-dev for instance
05:38.58psycho_oreosI could have simply used my N900 with its vkb.. and how hard was it to break n9's vkb? dead easy.. n9tweak tool and voila broken vkb when you adjust the keyboard size. The matter gets worse when you have a lock screen
05:39.34psycho_oreosno copy and paste in browser under n9? LAME
05:40.07psycho_oreosN900 allowed me to just do Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V, I'm sure I could have done the same had I own N950, but no, n9 lacks features like this
05:40.23Ariepsycho_oreos: n9 tweak as much as i love it is a very shoddy efforr
05:40.29psycho_oreosand yet I hear people like you heralding n9's vkb superiority
05:40.50psycho_oreosArie, shoddy but better than nothing because nokia wouldn't release a nice tool like this otherwise
05:41.06Ariepsycho_oreos: n950 doesn't have a copy paste function
05:41.22Ariepsycho_oreos: i agree, but ive stuck to v6.6
05:41.31Ariei have the download link if you'd like it
05:41.59psycho_oreosArie, maybe not globally under N950 but I'm sure you can still copy and paste elsewhere.
05:42.11psycho_oreosArie, v6.6 of? n9tweak?
05:42.28Ariepsycho_oreos: i look at the N9 as a timeless phone, if it had a 12mp cam, fmtx, and a few other tweaks, id keep it till the api's stopped working
05:43.03psycho_oreosI'm actually content with my copy of n9tweak, the thought of having to battle with aegis sickens me
05:43.31psycho_oreosn9 timeless? maybe, but probably not as timeless and N900..
05:43.58psycho_oreosand I'd be happier if I got my own N950, so that aegis won't taste as shit as under n9 prior to pr1.1 releases
05:44.33psycho_oreoss/timeless\ and/timeless\ as/
05:45.07Ariepsycho_oreos: aegis still exists on the N950 though
05:45.40psycho_oreosArie, no doubt, but it was well behaved compared to n9, you could run things like aegis-exec --relaxed-mode for instance and not get permission denied
05:46.06psycho_oreosand this was well before things like openmode-kernel and/or inception existed
05:46.21*** join/#n9 rnovacek (radek@nat/redhat/x-tvoczanvoouvdiyf)
05:49.13*** join/#n9 Arie (
05:49.14Ariemy bad
05:49.31psycho_oreosthought you chickened out :p
05:50.59Ariepsycho_oreos: no sir, i do not chicken out, i respectfully bow out :p
05:51.10psycho_oreosits not like aegis never existed on N950, it did but you could run things like aegis-exec --relaxed-mode and not get permission denied. On n9 well before openmode-kernel and/or inception was first ever even thought of, it wasn't even possible
05:51.42psycho_oreosheh chickening out would have been more suitable for me :p
05:52.36Ariepsycho_oreos: we have aegisctl on inception
05:52.43Arieim not really a fan of open mode
05:53.04Ariei believe that open mode isn't the best option to battle aegis
05:53.48psycho_oreosArie, I'm aware of aegisctl, though I'm not tempted to try the latest copy of inception as it requires the latest firmware and supposedly the last I heard (which was a good a month or two ago mind you) that the latest firmware patched aegis to break opensh
05:54.13psycho_oreosno it isn't, but it was the only alternative before inception came around.. and even at then inception isn't perfect
05:54.37Arieuse the latest firmware, inception v0.1.1 won't be patched till pr1.3
05:55.14psycho_oreosnot even with the minor patch that came out roughly a month after pr1.2 release?
05:55.38psycho_oreosthe supposedly `patch security flaw'
05:56.44Arienope, v0.1.1 works with it :)
05:56.53psycho_oreosgoes and checks his version of inception
05:57.51psycho_oreoshmm, minor version update.. mine says 0.1
06:00.07psycho_oreoswhich version is yours? I'm not look for the prX.X number, but the complete version string
06:00.38*** join/#n9 Siosm (~quassel@2a01:e34:ed1a:c410:226:55ff:feb3:9c79)
06:01.47Arie0.1.1, would you like a download link?
06:02.12Arieuninstall your current version dpkg -i this
06:02.44Ariedevel-su -C /usr/sbin/pasiv then yes
06:02.52Arieyou will have inception running
06:03.05psycho_oreosthat's the version of inception, I meant your firmware
06:03.05Arieadd in opensh and aegisctl and you're set
06:03.22Arieoh let me look
06:04.48psycho_oreoshmm seems like the latest
06:05.06Arieit is
06:10.19Ariepsycho_oreos: load up v0.1.1
06:10.52psycho_oreosArie, I'm backing up before updating my firmware
06:11.16Ariepsycho_oreos: are you on PR1.1?
06:11.25psycho_oreosArie, still am for now
06:12.22Ariebetter to sync contacts via nokia suite, so as notes and start from scratch on pr1
06:12.33psycho_oreoshaha great
06:13.18psycho_oreosholds off updating until maybe the weekend
06:14.19Ariepsycho_oreos: who are you on tmo?
06:15.12psycho_oreosand its absurd that I have to do all this crap, aegis on n9 is much like the cert-auth on symbian.. absolute waste of space, time and resources
06:15.24psycho_oreosArie, tuxsavvy.. I haven't been active on there for awhile now
06:15.38Ariepsycho_oreos: love the username
06:15.51psycho_oreosheh ta
06:16.00Ariepsycho_oreos: originally, no, now yes aegis is pointless
06:16.57psycho_oreosArie, I never liked it ever since it was first discussed, period. Nokia just wanted to put a leash on their own linux base to pretend that they cared
06:17.24Ariefor the general public, it's great for a mass used device
06:17.30Ariefor us, it's dumb
06:18.49psycho_oreosthe smaller mass-used public.. nobody knows what maemo or meego is.. they think its some niche platform.. and the way nokia sold n9 in selected countries which it claims that is deliberately making n9 fail has already done its part making the n9 way niche
06:19.33psycho_oreosif n9 was destined to fail by nokia, I couldn't see why nokia bothered in the first place to even put aegis.. maybe paranoia of n9's huge success like it has become now?
06:22.13Ariepsycho_oreos: nope, the whole system depends on it now
06:23.40psycho_oreosArie, well yeah that's what aegis ultimately became.. like an unwanted child
06:24.35*** join/#n9 rnovacek (radek@nat/redhat/x-agygwcrdyiffawjc)
06:25.07psycho_oreosthere are still many things that N900 is still better in terms of tinkering-wise compared to n9
06:25.39psycho_oreosand because I don't have N950 I cannot spout things like enabling/disabling r&d mode which n9 exclusively prohibits
06:26.03Ariepsycho_oreos: r&d mode?
06:26.54psycho_oreosArie, research and development mode, a mode that you can enable only with linux-flasher.. it works with N900 and its predecessors with the right flasher but you cannot do that with harmattan-flasher and n9
06:27.25psycho_oreoson N900 it flashes keyboard when there's an activity, shows slightly more verbose screen for instance
06:27.35psycho_oreosand you can bypass various hw mechanisms
06:28.36Arieah ok
06:28.41Arienever used it
06:29.59psycho_oreosnever meant to be used unless: 1) your setup was borked, 2) you're debugging something and you know what you are doing or 3) you're a tinkerer who doesn't mind enabling fancy things like I do. Supposedly enabling R&D mode on N900 chews more power than running in normal/production mode
06:32.26Arieah ok
06:33.47psycho_oreosif nokia no longer produces any more linux powered phones/devices, which platform would you use next regardless if your n9 died or not?
06:54.05*** join/#n9 gabriel9|work (~quassel@
08:28.59*** join/#n9 Jonne (
09:11.55Jonneword on twitter is p.r.1.3 is out
09:22.27Jonneno changelog to be found as of yet
09:22.37jonnimight be fake :)
09:22.50Jonneso for all i know they just decided to increment the version number to stop us from whining
09:23.26phakodoes anyone know which nokia car charger is compatible with the N9 ?
09:23.29Jonnewhich is something i'd to, to be honest
09:24.00jonniphako: all the chargers are if you short d+ and d- ;-)
09:24.01Jonnei bought a generic one that works fine, phako
09:24.13Jonneanything that does USB out should be fine
09:24.16phakoJonne: I've a 1200ma generic one that doesn't
09:24.31phakowhich is annoying
09:24.37jonniJonne: not really some usb ones dont work without d+d- short
09:24.49Jonnein that case i got lucky
09:25.00Jonnecan't tell you which one i have, though
09:25.37jonniphako: you can make your 1200ma working with 2euro extra plug:
09:25.48Jonnealso, pr1.3 is not available for my model yet, just checked for updates
09:25.51phakojonni: what's the symptoms if it doesn't have it shortened? "NOt enough power to charge" or not charging at all?
09:26.25jonniphako: usually not charging at all, but depending on charger it can also say not enough power
09:27.27jonniphako: when d+ and d- is shorted, then N9 thinks that its a wall charger, and goes into charging mode.
09:27.48phakoand if it isn't, it thinks it's a computing device and waits for something?
09:30.10jonniif it isnt then yes it assumes pc and waits for usb enumeration/init messages and defaults to max 500mA (in wall mode it changes to 1A). (plus it doesnt regognize iphone optimized car chargers because they use propriatary protocol, thats why d+d- plug is the best solution).
09:56.41*** join/#n9 Enforcer (
09:56.41*** join/#n9 evil|Jonne (~jonne@
09:56.41*** join/#n9 jkk_ (~jkk@gateway/shell/
10:01.20*** join/#n9 acidjunkie (
10:12.34*** join/#n9 arcean (
10:12.47infobotAll conversations are logged to Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.
10:15.26*** join/#n9 DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg)
10:46.44*** join/#n9 arcean_ (
11:00.49*** join/#n9 denism (
11:30.22*** join/#n9 azeem (
11:49.13*** join/#n9 Enforcer (
11:52.43*** join/#n9 liar (
12:10.56*** join/#n9 Enforcer (
12:17.14*** join/#n9 Jonne (
13:21.16*** join/#n9 DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg)
13:22.24*** join/#n9 acidjunkie (
13:42.19*** join/#n9 FSCV (~FSCV@
13:53.18phakojonni: hm, shortened it and it still doesn't work.
13:53.34phakomaybe the adapter is just lying :)
13:53.50*** join/#n9 mlpug (
14:04.06*** join/#n9 e0x (
14:26.15*** join/#n9 cb400f (
14:26.16*** join/#n9 cb400f (~cb400f@opensuse/member/Cb400f)
14:55.17Jonnequestion about IMAP+gmail (only half-related to the N9): is it normal that when you mark something as read on one client (say, your phone), it doesn't propagate to other clients/gmail?
14:57.19Jonnei have to sync manually to trigger that, basically
14:57.42Jonneis there a way to get fenix to mark something as read as soon as i read it (provided i have a connection)?
15:01.43Jonnealso, if i have multiple e-mails i find that thunderbird at home only marked the top one as read
15:01.52Jonneanyway, it doesn't seem to work right
15:13.44jonnisounds like quite default behaviour of imap4 protocol though.
15:18.47Jonnethat sucks
15:19.19Jonnemaybe i should look into MFE, see what this does
15:19.21jonnihavent checked the configs, there might be some sync immediately option, but that will drain your battery quite fast
15:37.05*** join/#n9 Enforcer (
16:03.32Kozziso is the rumor true that even developers havent got pr1.3 yet?
16:09.08*** join/#n9 Nirkus (
16:09.09*** join/#n9 Nirkus (~linus@about/pxe/Nirkus)
16:15.18*** join/#n9 xTs (
16:20.46*** join/#n9 Saviq_ (
16:45.39*** join/#n9 cb400f (~cb400f@opensuse/member/Cb400f)
21:26.59*** join/#n9 infobot (
21:26.59*** topic/#n9 is N9 users meet here to chat about typical users' topics like case colors, best offers, hippest apps, screen protectors, etc. Basically all the things that are not development related. Developers will want to join #harmattan. This channel is logged, see ~logs
21:26.59*** mode/#n9 [+v infobot] by ChanServ
21:45.58*** join/#n9 liar (
22:03.27*** join/#n9 bef0rd (~fernando@unaffiliated/beford)
22:17.34*** join/#n9 arcean_ (
22:40.55*** join/#n9 arcean__ (
23:18.01*** join/#n9 arcean (
23:27.47Kozzianyone here know how to turn the background of statusbar transparent?
23:41.25*** join/#n9 arcean_ (

Generated by Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.