IRC log for #n9 on 20120216

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03:07.53Guest44609hello,anyone know if memscanner could work in n9 like in n900
03:26.51itsnotabigtruckdon't think so
03:30.04Guest44609itsnotabigtruck:is there no way to make it compatible since it runs on maemo 5
03:30.31Guest44609i meant even if its hard way i could try it
03:32.02itsnotabigtruckGuest44609: i'm assuming it uses /dev/mem
03:32.06itsnotabigtruckwhich isn't available on the N9
03:32.24itsnotabigtruckit would allow subverting the security features fairly easily
03:34.39Guest44609is there any memory scanning command for terminal you know?
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09:18.23marsjehow do I define an alias in N9 terminal/shell?
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09:40.06petterino idea. I have just added shors scripts to bin
09:40.28petterimaybe install bash and login to that when loggin in to terminal
09:53.47marsjepetteri: yeah, I could also make a script
09:53.56marsjeis ~/bin in the path?
10:01.56petterino, but is just have one char scripts under it like bin/a bin/b bin/c
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11:50.13marsjepetteri: I added /home/user/bin to the path in .profile
11:50.24marsjeso just have to type one letter now
11:50.41petteriok, thanks. I'll do the same thing
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14:04.19b00^wkwtf, why is that I'm unable to start the wifi hotspot unless i'm connected to a wlan somehow ?
14:04.21b00^wkwhy ?
14:04.35b00^wkwhat if I just want a bunch of local stations to use my n9 as a wifi ap
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14:50.53phakopresumable it needs an internet connection
14:51.44b00^wkand i want to BAN it to use it :P
15:40.38itsnotabigtruckb00^wk: there has to bea way to make this happen, the question is how
15:40.48itsnotabigtruckwhat happened when you tried to put it into ad-hoc mode?
15:41.38b00^wklets first establish what  i want to do :
15:42.01b00^wkuse my n9 as a software access point
15:42.27b00^wkinternet / wlan is irrelevant, but i want clients to talk through the software access point created with the N9's app
15:42.50b00^wkthis setup works, BUT ONLY with the (in my ignorant view) stupid MUST of having the WLAN (3G connection) on
15:43.06b00^wkand i honestly don't see why there is no option to have it OFF also
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16:15.00itsnotabigtruckb00^wk: you said you tried to put it in adhoc mode and it wouldn't let you?
16:15.08itsnotabigtruckwhat did you try and what happened
16:15.27b00^wkitsnotabigtruck,  "Wifi Hotspot"
16:15.33b00^wkdo you call this  adhoc ?
16:16.47itsnotabigtruckb00^wk: well yeah, that uses adhoc mode
16:16.56itsnotabigtrucki thought you attempted to configure it into adhoc mode another way
16:17.09itsnotabigtrucki think normally you'd use iwconfig or something? except iwconfig doesn't seem to be on the phone
16:17.23b00^wkthere is NOt
16:19.46b00^wki seriously need to look at that app source if its available..
16:19.58itsnotabigtruckb00^wk: apt-get install wireless-tools
16:19.59itsnotabigtruckit's in the repo
16:20.06b00^wkha, they are ?
16:20.17b00^wki'l be baaaakk  ..
16:20.25itsnotabigtruckthat gets you iwconfig, try putting it in adhoc mode and report whether it worked
16:20.41b00^wkadhoc mode is just part of the problem
16:20.53b00^wkand, yes, it is enabled, i can see that in the /sys
16:21.12itsnotabigtruckalso remember to run iwconfig from develsh
16:21.20itsnotabigtruckrun accli -I and verify that CAP::net_admin is int he list
16:21.23itsnotabigtruckif not, run develsh first
16:22.32b00^wknow i wonder if this is a true hotspot / sofware access point, or is this an ad-hoc with dhcp access ...
16:22.36b00^wkprobably it is
16:23.37itsnotabigtruckb00^wk: joikuspot is the latter
16:23.53itsnotabigtruckapparently the n9's wlan chip supports the former
16:24.16itsnotabigtruckjoikuspot = the built-in wifi hotspot program for the avoidance of doubt
16:24.23b00^wkok :(
16:24.31itsnotabigtruckbtw you can tether your N9 through your pc, which would save a lot of trouble
16:24.47b00^wktether ?
16:25.14itsnotabigtruck'tethering' is using your phone's internet from your pc
16:25.20itsnotabigtruckbut i forgot that's not what you're trying to do
16:25.47b00^wkitsnotabigtruck,  what does that wifi hotspot program do besides 1) dhcp'ing on clients; 2) starting wlan connection ?
16:26.03itsnotabigtrucki think that's more or less it
16:26.12itsnotabigtruckalso because of that you likely need to install a dhcp daemon
16:26.57b00^wki thought /hoped the actual wlan chip has a built-in support for ap
16:27.37b00^wk<itsnotabigtruck> i think that's more or less it
16:27.50b00^wkand if its so, it KILLs me why it wants me to have the WAN / 3g on
16:28.06b00^wkanyway, im off for a while
16:29.05itsnotabigtruckbecause that's the normal use case...
16:29.17itsnotabigtruckwhat you don't seem to understand is that you're doing something unusual
16:29.30itsnotabigtruckand it's possible to do unusual things but that requires unusual effort
16:30.17itsnotabigtruckb00^wk ^
16:34.24marsjespeaking of networking...
16:34.46marsjewhen out of reach of wifi and some app likes to use the internet
16:34.56marsjeI get this option to connect to internert throught 3G
16:35.00marsjethen I say: cancel
16:35.11marsjebut it pops right back up to ask me again
16:35.13marsjeand again, etc
16:35.20marsjeanyway I can prevent this?
16:37.12marsjeI'm talking about the SportsTracker app
16:37.46marsjeI think it wants to get online to get the map or to get gps info
16:40.37marsjeit would be nice if you could allow/disallow network access on an app basis
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17:57.21b00^portalmarsje,  probably 'allow background connections ' to off
17:57.38b00^portaland you can move 3g from automatically to manually
17:58.10b00^portalitsnotabigtruck,  hey i don't object to extra effort
17:58.39b00^portalits just that , seems someone would like, make such app feature
17:59.16b00^portalseems strange that is
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19:04.48jesuschristanyone alive ?
19:07.03jonne|reconnectechecks pulse
19:07.21jonne|reconnecte... no
19:07.55jesuschristi wonder how to disable sms delivery reports on the n9
19:08.02jesuschristany idea jonne ?
19:08.15jonne|reconnectei think i saw that option somewhere
19:08.22jesuschristi didnt find it :\
19:08.44jesuschristlast bill i paied 12 euros on those damn reports :(
19:10.06jesuschristthank you very much sir
19:11.04jesuschristdo you use lpsmagic jonne ?
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19:19.45jonne|reconnectenot sure what that is
19:20.35jesuschristi guess that means "no" :>
19:22.30jesuschristjonne|reconnecte :
19:24.55jonne|reconnectei think the lock screen is already too bright as it is :/
19:25.20jesuschristtastes :)
19:25.24jonne|reconnecteis there a mod to change the font of the clock yet?
19:25.32jonne|reconnectei'd love to use a very light font
19:25.40jesuschristi thought you could change colours
19:25.45jesuschristand stuff
19:25.48jesuschristnot sure about it
19:26.10jonne|reconnecteit's not tastes, i just feel it's too bright at night, especially because it jumps around
19:26.47jonne|reconnectei know why it jumps around, it just distracts me too much when the screen is in my field of view
19:28.28jesuschristyou coul just block
19:28.31jesuschristthe light sensor
19:28.42jesuschristwith a piece of papaer
19:28.47jesuschristso the screen shut down
19:29.14jesuschristcheck this
19:29.20jesuschristnot sure if its gonna help you
19:31.02jonne|reconnectei just got it last week, so i'll wait a bit before i screw it up completely :p
19:32.03jonne|reconnectewould love it if i could control the distance between 'jumps'
19:32.24jonne|reconnectelike make it move 5px at a time, but more frequently or something
19:33.14jesuschristanyway if you block the sensor with a piece of paper the screen turns off
19:33.26jonne|reconnecteor i can just turn it off
19:33.47jonne|reconnectebut i like having the clock available when i do want to know the time
19:33.49jesuschristi avoid to turn my n9 off because of the password bug
19:33.58jonne|reconnecteor whether i have messages
19:34.06jonne|reconnectei mean the lockscreen
19:34.16jonne|reconnecteyou can turn it off in the settings somewhere
19:34.25jesuschristoh cool, but that means
19:34.33jesuschrist1 - goodbye battery
19:34.42jesuschrist2 - burn in effect ?
19:35.06jonne|reconnectei think it means the screen goes blank, with nothing on it
19:35.19jonne|reconnectehaven't tried it
19:35.27jesuschristah ok
19:35.42jonne|reconnectebut am i really the only one that gets distracted by the jumping around thing?
19:36.02jesuschristi can tell that im not at all bothered by it
19:36.32jesuschristthe zones app turns the screen off
19:36.48jesuschristdo you like your n9 ?
19:37.36jonne|reconnectecoming from the N900, i wished it had a keyboard
19:37.50Chaz6It's a shame they didn't sell the n950
19:38.00jonne|reconnectethe N950 would be my phone of choice if Nokia just sold it
19:38.07jesuschristtbh i pretty much got used to the n9 virtual keyboard
19:38.27jonne|reconnectei type a lot slower on the virtual keyboard
19:38.28Chaz6The n950 has the best keyboard of any phone ive tried
19:38.32Chaz6the n9000's keys are a bit small for me
19:38.35jonne|reconnectebut maybe i need to get used to it
19:38.54jesuschristi think so, anyway a real keyboard is unbeatable, wont deny it
19:39.03jesuschristbut the n9 vkb is pretty good
19:39.13jonne|reconnectestill, best-looking phone you can get right now
19:39.32jesuschristnice UI too
19:39.44jesuschristhow much you paied it ?
19:39.53jonne|reconnecteand i'm hoping the community adds the same cool stuff they added to the n900
19:40.03jonne|reconnecte€580 or so
19:40.08jesuschrist64 gb ?
19:40.32jonne|reconnectewished i could get the white one, but they're not selling it here
19:40.57jonne|reconnectethe thing that sucks most is the lack of skype video chat
19:41.04jonne|reconnectei hope this gets added
19:41.08jesuschristi paied mine 470 euro, 16 gb, bought it in november
19:41.21jonne|reconnectenow i use my n900 just for skype
19:41.31Chaz6On a random note, i tried to update my N8 to Belle.. it would not do it without a sim card in
19:41.33jesuschristskype video chat wont be added, but google talkl video wil
19:42.10Chaz6Of course i had to clip my sim to use it in the n9
19:42.18jonne|reconnectei guess google talk video is good enough too, although i don't know anyone that uses it
19:42.24Chaz6I emailed nokia CS and they said to put a sim card in, completely ignoring what i told them
19:42.38jesuschristlol chaz, i still can use my microsim on my old phone
19:42.38Chaz6micro sim wont work in the n8
19:42.43Chaz6Oh yeah?
19:43.05Chaz6I dont see why it needs a sim card in just to update it anyway
19:43.13jesuschristjonne|reconnecte : skype video chat on 3g doesnt suck ?
19:43.37jonne|reconnecteskype video chat sucks on the n900 anyway
19:43.47jonne|reconnectemy contacts just see blurry pixels
19:43.59jonne|reconnectebut i've done it on 3G
19:44.00jesuschristi could only wonder about videos
19:44.06jonne|reconnectemain bottleneck is CPU
19:44.19jesuschristyou sure about it ?
19:44.22jonne|reconnecteespecially when apt kicks in while you're on a call
19:44.40jonne|reconnectedon't really notice a quality difference between 3G or wifi
19:44.41jesuschristi think bottleneck is the 3g network
19:44.49jonne|reconnecteexcept when you're moving
19:44.54jesuschriston wifi my sip calls work pretty good
19:45.04jesuschristnot on 3g
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19:45.25jonne|reconnectethe n900 was just too slow for some stuff
19:45.32ToAruShiroiNekoI am curious
19:45.46jonne|reconnectei missed many calls because it was still swapping out before deciding to show the button to pick up
19:45.48ToAruShiroiNekodoes anyone know a way to disable or extend the time limit that phone locks itself
19:46.02jonne|reconnecteit's in the settings somewhere
19:46.04ToAruShiroiNekoI also want to listen to what the phone recieves on the microphone
19:46.18ToAruShiroiNekojonne|reconnecte the highest setting is 3 mins which isnt enough\
19:47.02jonne|reconnectemaybe you can set it longer by manually altering the conf file or gconf key, or wherever it's stored?
19:47.23ToAruShiroiNekoI dont know where that is
19:47.28jonne|reconnecteme neither :p
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19:51.22jonne|reconnectegoddamn skype, Y U NO allow my browser to remember my password on your site?
19:53.31jonne|reconnectebtw, are there any apps that show how much calling credit there is left on your SIM (for whatever operator)?
19:54.10jonne|reconnectei'm thinking of writing one for mine, and i'm wondering where you'd display that info, as there's no obvious space for widgets
19:54.35jesuschristnot that i know
19:54.42jesuschristyou could use a button
19:54.47jesuschriston the launcher
19:54.53jesuschristinstead of a widget
19:55.36jonne|reconnecteon the n900 i have a widget that shows it
19:55.54jonne|reconnectei'm thinking of putting it in the feed, like the calender app
19:58.15jesuschristyou can
19:58.20jesuschristuse the button
19:58.21jesuschristi mean
19:58.32jesuschristthe button could show how many minutes you got left
19:58.59jesuschristsomething like that app that makes you see instead of the calendar app the actual date
19:59.04jesuschrista mini widget
19:59.42jesuschristtheres a GPRS data usage that does that
19:59.53jesuschristit shows how much you used in the button that launch the app
20:00.25jonne|reconnectemaybe an icon that turns red when you're running out of minutes
20:00.32jonne|reconnecteor something
20:00.44jonne|reconnectethat would be nice and unobtrusive
20:02.00jonne|reconnecteif you have less than €5 (configurable) or your data is going to run out in x days, show red icon
20:02.32jonne|reconnecteand possibly add a button that sends an sms to recharge in the app itself
20:03.25jesuschristwould be nice
20:03.31jesuschristfor people not on a plan
20:03.33ToAruShiroiNekowhat I want to do is listen to the outside world while wearing headphones
20:03.58ToAruShiroiNekoI want to hear the real world, I just dont want the entire world to listent to my music
20:04.29jesuschristjonne|reconnecte : then what about that your app turns the call icon red instead
20:04.38jesuschristof an indipendent app
20:04.53jesuschristahem indipendent icon
20:05.45jonne|reconnectei don't have any experience yet with harmattan development, but i doubt apps would be allowed to just go around and change system icons
20:06.16jonne|reconnecteplus you need an icon anyway to launch settings and stuff
20:08.19jesuschristgoing away a bit
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20:43.12itsnotabigtruckargh, this app > < is cool, but not $1 cool
20:43.35itsnotabigtruckactually it looks $1 cool maybe but there's other free apps and nokia makes it a pain in the ass to pay for apps
20:44.51jonne|reconnectenever got the point of these velocimeter apps
20:45.11jonne|reconnectedon't you already have a speedometer in your car?
20:46.40itsnotabigtruckgood point :p
20:47.08itsnotabigtruckit would be nice if that n9 apps site made a clear distinction between free and non-free
20:54.18ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck in my opinion speed and acceleration meters are inacurate
20:54.29ToAruShiroiNekoI was walking and it thought I was traveling at 10km/h
20:54.43ToAruShiroiNekoto be fair I was around the european comission building
20:54.58ToAruShiroiNekothat structure bends reality
20:55.12ToAruShiroiNekoor maybe its the amount of metal disrupting gps signals
20:55.19itsnotabigtruckso you're a g-man eh
20:55.25itsnotabigtruckactually since it's the eu i guess that makes you an e-man
20:55.46Chaz6Speaking of gps, is it possible to sync the n9's clock to gps?
20:55.48Chaz6I don't trust the cell towers
20:55.54ToAruShiroiNekoChaz6 no it isnt
20:56.07ToAruShiroiNekothe gps and earth based clocks do not tick the same
20:56.11ToAruShiroiNekogps clocks are slower
20:56.18ToAruShiroiNekoper relativity
20:56.38itsnotabigtruckToAruShiroiNeko: erm what? it's definitely possible to compute wall clock time from gps
20:56.43itsnotabigtruckmight have to add in leap seconds
20:57.02ToAruShiroiNekoyou would need to calculate relativistically though
20:57.08itsnotabigtrucklots of gps devices display the gps time
20:57.15ToAruShiroiNekoas the added leap secconds differ
20:57.25itsnotabigtruckalso if you want to have a time server
20:57.28ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck he also didnt specify his speed
20:57.30itsnotabigtruckyou sync the clock using a gps
20:57.40ToAruShiroiNekowhat if he is traveling at .5c
20:57.53itsnotabigtruckand ToAruShiroiNeko: you just add the leap seconds per the formual
20:57.56itsnotabigtruckit's not that complicated
20:58.00ToAruShiroiNekono it isnt
20:58.09ToAruShiroiNekobut it would be simpler to use them internets
20:58.10itsnotabigtruckit's 100% possible to do what chaz wants, it just isn't in there
20:58.26ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck right right
20:58.41ToAruShiroiNekobut its very complicated
20:58.42itsnotabigtruckthe other thing is that locking the gps takes a lot of time and battery juice
20:58.46itsnotabigtruckand you'd have to do it every so often
20:59.01ToAruShiroiNekoit takes battery juice because it is computaitonally intense
20:59.03Chaz6I ask because i'd like to record a video with an accurate timecode in it
20:59.12Chaz6So I can sync it to something else
20:59.16ToAruShiroiNekoChaz6 how acurate do you want ot?
20:59.27ToAruShiroiNekowhy not sync internet based?
20:59.54ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck btw do you know of an app that plays what icrophone picks real time?
21:00.08itsnotabigtruckand ToAruShiroiNeko: erm, no, it takes battery life because it requires turning on a radio receiver
21:00.14itsnotabigtruckand also doing a bunch of computing but that's on the chip
21:00.31itsnotabigtruckfrom the perspective of the main cpu, it just sees gps info streaming in
21:00.40itsnotabigtruckthere's a standard data format for it
21:01.07ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck hmm
21:01.25ToAruShiroiNekobut gps software has to take into account relativistic differences
21:01.58ToAruShiroiNekoI guess that involves and integral or two
21:02.16ToAruShiroiNekoby the time you compute it your time would be off a few miliseconds
21:02.21itsnotabigtruckand those relativistic differences are a constant factor
21:02.47ToAruShiroiNekoso it wouldnt be more acurate than an internet based system
21:02.54ToAruShiroiNekorelativity is relative in nature :p
21:03.11itsnotabigtruckright, relative between you and the satellite
21:03.14itsnotabigtruckwhich isn't changing that much
21:03.55ToAruShiroiNekoI suppose you dont know an app similar to what I described :(
21:04.37ToAruShiroiNekoI really like netviewer
21:04.45ToAruShiroiNekoI can remote desktop to my phone!
21:05.19Chaz6The other app i'd like for n9 is a camera that can be controlled from a web browser
21:05.30Chaz6html5+canvas for example
21:05.41ToAruShiroiNekoChaz6 it exists
21:05.43Chaz6I find the remote desktop a bit slow
21:05.48ToAruShiroiNekoits 1 or 2 euros tho
21:06.04Chaz6oh nice
21:06.08ToAruShiroiNekouse your n9 like a bluetooth camera is the claim
21:06.11ToAruShiroiNekoI never used it tho
21:06.26Chaz6I dont want it to be a bluetooth camera, i just want to control it from my browser
21:12.16ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck I found a solution for the problem I mentioned yesterday
21:12.28ToAruShiroiNekobacklighter does what I want
21:16.56ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck how doffocult would it be to code an app that would echo?
21:20.05ToAruShiroiNekogn9! :p
21:22.42jonne|reconnecteGNU/eight ?
21:25.06ToAruShiroiNekoGN ate?
21:25.19ToAruShiroiNekoG Nate!
21:26.02jonne|reconnecteis that a rapper?
21:27.46ToAruShiroiNekobtw do you know an n9 app that can echo what microphone picks?
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21:37.51xTsgn8 is a german abbreviation for "gute nacht" = Good night. "8" is spelled "acht".
21:38.42ToAruShiroiNekogn8 sounds like a nokia competetor :p
21:46.49xTsyeah. a cheap chinese copy ;P
21:52.42itsnotabigtruckToAruShiroiNeko: which problem?
21:52.52itsnotabigtruckand regarding the echo, no clue
21:53.09itsnotabigtrucki've never done anything audio-related on linux before
21:56.47jonne|reconnectecurious about what you can do with pulseaudio too
21:56.59jonne|reconnectewonder if network transparency works
21:57.24jonne|reconnectebut i guess that would be pretty useless without avahi
21:58.50itsnotabigtruckdammit, toneboard is another one of those apps that would be cool if they didn't cost money
21:59.35jonne|reconnectejust buy the damn things :p
21:59.42jonne|reconnectewhat's €1?
22:00.06itsnotabigtrucktrue, but part of the problem is that nokia let at&t tell it to block credit card payments
22:00.35itsnotabigtruckand my phone's on a group plan and i probably shouldn't charge up the bill with app purchases
22:01.11itsnotabigtruckso buying an app means powering it off, peeling off the sleeve, removing the sim, booting back up, paying up, then repeating the process to put the sim back in
22:01.13jonne|reconnectenever actually bought an app, so i don't know how it works
22:01.24jonne|reconnectelast time i paid for software i bought minecraft
22:01.35jonne|reconnecteand that was a first in years
22:01.46itsnotabigtruckso it's not so much the price, as much as nokia is making it hard for me to give them money
22:02.01jonne|reconnecteor making it hard to even buy this phone
22:02.02itsnotabigtruckand if they don't want my money, then i won't give it to them :p
22:02.38itsnotabigtruckalso there's sales tax on apps, so that sucks too
22:03.29jonne|reconnectepirate it and send the developer a buck in the mail?
22:03.35itsnotabigtrucki should authorize my home address as a 2nd billing address so i don't have to pay sales tax
22:04.13itsnotabigtrucki wonder how much profit people are really making on N9 apps
22:04.15jonne|reconnecteit's ridiculous how piracy is usually the better option, even if you're willing to pay
22:04.24itsnotabigtruckthings like angry birds likely are making significant dough
22:04.26jonne|reconnectei doubt they're making fortunes
22:04.30itsnotabigtrucki've bought exactly one app, which was angry birds
22:04.36itsnotabigtrucki bet lots of others have done the same
22:04.44jonne|reconnectebut stuff is in the ovi store, so it must be worthwhile
22:04.46itsnotabigtruckbut the smaller apps
22:05.02itsnotabigtruckyou don't get any payout at all until you hit $100, and the payout is by wire transfer
22:05.07itsnotabigtruckwire transfers come with serious fees
22:05.13jonne|reconnectenot here
22:05.18itsnotabigtruckit's uneconomical until you get to a lot of money
22:05.34jonne|reconnectewire transfers are free, AFAIK
22:06.34itsnotabigtruckare you sure about that? there's a lot of different kinds of transfers
22:07.04itsnotabigtruckjust looked up my bank's fee chart, it's $15 for 'foreign incoming'
22:08.18itsnotabigtruckah, apparently the EU regulates intra-EU wire fees to be very low
22:08.25ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck about how the phone locks itself
22:08.28ToAruShiroiNekoin 3 mins
22:08.57itsnotabigtruckToAruShiroiNeko: oh ok
22:08.58ToAruShiroiNekointra EU fees are low
22:08.59itsnotabigtruckhow'd you do it?
22:09.00ToAruShiroiNekoas in 0
22:09.04ToAruShiroiNekoits an app
22:09.39itsnotabigtruckin the US the most common kind of electronic funds transfer is an ach transfer, but those are only to and from mid-large businesses
22:09.54ToAruShiroiNekoUS is a wierd creature
22:09.55itsnotabigtruckyou can't go and make an ach yourself to some arbitrary bank account number
22:10.06ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck you can if you are rich enough
22:10.11ToAruShiroiNekolike Mitt Romney
22:10.20itsnotabigtruckso it's only really used for direct deposits, and direct debit of bills
22:10.25ToAruShiroiNekoI bet he wires all his own cash to himself >:D
22:10.35itsnotabigtruck("direct deposit" as in for paychecks)
22:10.40ToAruShiroiNekoUS uses paypal and credit cards
22:10.54itsnotabigtruckyeah, paypal is teh evil
22:11.10ToAruShiroiNekopaypal is like letting a homless person handle your money
22:11.17ToAruShiroiNekohe means well but you know he is also hungry\
22:11.28itsnotabigtruckand likely crazy
22:12.12ToAruShiroiNekoyou are the crazy one for using paypal
22:12.21ToAruShiroiNekook so
22:12.25itsnotabigtrucki should see if i can hack PR1.2beta onto my N9
22:12.33ToAruShiroiNekoI am unsure how to search for the app I am looking for
22:12.37jonne|reconnecteUS still uses checks, ffs
22:12.38itsnotabigtrucki've got a fairly specific idea of how to do it, the question is execution
22:12.45ToAruShiroiNekospell it right
22:12.49jonne|reconnectei haven't ever needed to write one
22:12.55itsnotabigtruckyeah, if you want to send money person to person, it comes down to checks or paypal
22:12.56jonne|reconnecteor spell it correctly
22:13.04itsnotabigtruckor postal money orders, but those have fees
22:13.12ToAruShiroiNekoor mailing cash
22:13.13itsnotabigtruckthere's also things like western union but they make paypal look like saints
22:13.20ToAruShiroiNekoI havent emailed cash so far tho
22:13.32ToAruShiroiNekoyou should be able to scan the money with an app and send it
22:14.00itsnotabigtruckthen what happens to your bills
22:14.04itsnotabigtruckthey magically go up in flames? :D
22:15.09jonne|reconnectethere's no reason the government should have a monopoly on printing money
22:15.14jonne|reconnecteoh wait, there is
22:16.34itsnotabigtruckwell, it would make sense to allow people to print their own money, if they can convince anyone else to use it
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22:16.52itsnotabigtrucknot like counterfeit money, but like custom currency
22:17.07itsnotabigtruckbut a) the government doesn't really like that, and b) currency fragmentation is a bad thing
22:18.36jonne|reconnecteif you start your own currency, i'm not sure what laws would stop someone else from printing more of your money
22:18.51itsnotabigtruckthat's kind of a problem too, heh
22:19.00jonne|reconnecteyou could copyright the image on your money or whatever, but seems tricky
22:19.15itsnotabigtruckand then you could only sue the counterfeiters
22:19.36itsnotabigtruckactually hmm, i wonder if they would be considered civil or criminal infringement
22:19.57itsnotabigtrucknormally it's criminal if you infringe for profit, otherwise civil
22:20.24jonne|reconnectethe closest you could get to making your own currency is some sort of central database of IOU's
22:20.30itsnotabigtruckcounterfeiting on the surface of it would be for profit, but i'm not sure precisely how the line is drawn for that
22:20.56jonne|reconnectelike, you run a server, people register their IOU's on them, and people can exchange those for services
22:21.11jonne|reconnecteno need to print money
22:21.31jonne|reconnectealthoug i guess you could just write IOU's for your friends
22:21.41jonne|reconnectenm, stupid idea
22:21.50itsnotabigtruckit would be cool if it were possible to get something like bitcoin going for real
22:21.56itsnotabigtruckbitcoin is...problematic, at the very least
22:22.03itsnotabigtruckno matter how the anarchist-types would like to think otherwise
22:22.10itsnotabigtruckbut the general idea is a very interesting one
22:22.48ToAruShiroiNekoitsnotabigtruck money should have 2d barcode on them
22:23.24itsnotabigtruckthe nice thing about cash, however, is that assuming it's hard enough to counterfeit, it's good as cash
22:23.48jonne|reconnecteyeah, would not like to have a 3rd party involved in all transactions
22:23.53itsnotabigtruckit's always valid, not trackable, and so on
22:24.07jonne|reconnectei like handing someone cash without some corporation knowing about it
22:24.24jonne|reconnectei even like it more to receive cash
22:24.27itsnotabigtruckthe rapid movement toward a future where electronic transactions are the only transactions, reminds me of some dystopian sci-fi where everybody pays for everything using electronic chit-cards
22:24.43itsnotabigtruckreally, debit cards today are the same thing, just less cool looking
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22:25.38jonne|reconnectewell, soon we'll be able to pay with NFC
22:26.14jonne|reconnectethe N9 is slightly more cool-looking than a debit card :p
22:26.14itsnotabigtruckwhich i find to be an absolutely idiotic idea
22:26.14itsnotabigtruckthe idea is to lower people's inhibitions to impulse buying
22:26.14itsnotabigtruckby making it easier to pay without thinking
22:26.19jonne|reconnectealso, as soon as your battery dies, you're broke
22:26.32itsnotabigtrucknot to worry, the N9 has no nfc payment support
22:26.43itsnotabigtruckactually i wouldn't be surprised if it could be hacked to emulate an authorized nfc payment device
22:26.47jonne|reconnectethat's a seperate tech?
22:26.59itsnotabigtruckit requires a "secure element" (basically a smart card) embedded inside
22:27.14jonne|reconnecteso what stops one from emulating one in software?
22:27.31itsnotabigtruckit probably requires some shared secret embedded in the card
22:27.47itsnotabigtrucki haven't used any of the existing nfc payment schemes so i don't know how they're provisioned
22:28.15itsnotabigtrucki think the banks have lately been pushing rfid stickers to slap on the back of your phone
22:28.39jonne|reconnectedistributing a shared secret in millions of devices by 1às of different manufacturers? yeah, sure, can't imagine that staying secret for long
22:28.48itsnotabigtruckdue to embedded phone nfc generally taking off like a tonne of bricks, in no small part thanks to the carriers
22:29.10itsnotabigtruckthough an nfc sticker could be problematic if your phone has nfc too
22:29.32itsnotabigtruckalso that sort of approach has worked ok for various sorts of DRM schemes
22:29.42jonne|reconnectedon't see what's wrong with a debit card, though
22:29.51jonne|reconnecteseems safer, relatively
22:30.05itsnotabigtrucki've been meaning to get my debit card swapped out for one sans rfid
22:30.10itsnotabigtruckif my bank's willing to do it, anyway
22:30.39itsnotabigtruckit seems like the trend has been away from embedding rfids in the actual doesn't seem like many credit/debit cards come with them anymore
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22:53.56ToAruShiroiNekofailed underwear bomber jailed
22:54.08ToAruShiroiNekoafter shoebomber this means we will need to take off our underwear now
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23:09.20DocScrutinizerWUT? 60 users?
23:09.53DocScrutinizerwonders when he last looked here
23:14.30ToAruShiroiNekonot often enough
23:14.35ToAruShiroiNekoI am here :p
23:20.25itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: is that abnormally low or abnormally high
23:22.49DocScrutinizerlast time I looked here it's been like 38
23:23.11DocScrutinizerobviously too busy lately
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