IRC log for #n9 on 20111127

00:00.02Crnkojye but its a resource hog
00:00.18Crnkoji like the "pure" linux experience on phone more than thsi vm crap
00:00.21Crnkojesp with java
00:00.22psycho_oreosI've heard that N950 has 16GB, but neither does N9 nor N950 has SD slot.. and N950 is a developers only device
00:00.30Crnkojye i know
00:00.40Crnkoj16gb really? all info says its 8gb
00:00.55Crnkoji could get the n950 from india from a friend
00:00.57psycho_oreosI've asked a few developers who happens to own one
00:01.01Crnkojah i see
00:01.06Crnkojthats better than but still
00:01.11Crnkojwhy no sd slot is above me
00:01.25psycho_oreosits Flop's way of crippling the device
00:01.29Crnkojand now these windows phones from nokia
00:01.53Crnkojthe only positive thing they ahve compared to other manufacturers is the navigation lol
00:01.58Crnkojand maybe the looks
00:02.01psycho_oreosfor now I'm rather pleased with my N900 :) got a few now
00:02.12Crnkojuhm ye
00:02.20Crnkojmy bro wants to buy a used noe from ebay
00:02.35psycho_oreoswell the navigation `app' has been hacked and some people have skydrive (I think is what it was called) running on other wp7/mango devices
00:02.38Crnkojone can put harmattan on it right ?
00:02.56psycho_oreosno not the same meego harmattan that N950/N9 features
00:02.56Crnkojye but you have to fuck around with that windows junk
00:03.01Crnkojah ok
00:03.11Crnkojbut some rather recent version of meego/mer ?
00:03.30psycho_oreosbut he can put meegoCE which is a proper meego environment not the meego harmattan which is kinda like a hybrid of maemo and meego with aegis crap
00:03.46Crnkojye id put that on it than
00:03.55Crnkojbut the phone only has 256mb ram
00:03.59psycho_oreoswell yeah meego is joining with mer
00:04.00Crnkojkinda cripples it
00:04.06Crnkojye so i read
00:04.13Crnkojbtw what are you running on your n900s ?
00:04.17psycho_oreos256MB RAM + 768MB swap, it'll be slow but its still doable :)
00:04.26Crnkojyes slow all in all
00:04.40Crnkojin wondering as to where to go to get info about getting meego/mer on this atrix phone
00:04.44psycho_oreospure maemo for now.. have been mulling over triple booting meego and nitdroid but I want to retain it all using uboot
00:05.01Crnkojah maemo only
00:05.11psycho_oreoswell meego has their own support channel in #meego, and specifically for ARM platform #meego-arm
00:05.19Crnkojye im there
00:05.21Crnkojwas there
00:05.28Crnkojthey suggested i ask in harmattan/mer
00:05.37Crnkojabout getting it
00:05.42Crnkojbut no real responses there ^ ^
00:05.47Crnkojprobably not worth anyways
00:05.51Crnkojhavent got much time lately
00:05.56Crnkojsick studies :D
00:06.04psycho_oreosI don't think harmattan is that portable, not to mention if its something that you would want
00:06.43Crnkoji mean id like a meego like os on the phone
00:06.43Crnkoji love the interface on the n9
00:06.43Crnkojall with gestures
00:06.43Crnkojand the multitasking
00:06.44Crnkoji mean consider that on a dualcore cpu
00:06.49Crnkojwith faster ram
00:06.51Crnkojand better gpu
00:06.53psycho_oreosthe swype is proprietary and is integral part of harmattan
00:07.05Crnkojso one would have to get harmattan to work
00:07.07Crnkojnot jsut meego
00:07.18psycho_oreoswell yeah
00:07.21Crnkoji lost all interest in it now lol
00:07.26Crnkojwould need a new kernel
00:07.27Crnkojfor sure
00:07.27psycho_oreosmeego itself is more open however than harmattan
00:07.32Crnkojye im sure of that
00:07.55psycho_oreoswell for starters you'll need to boot into meego's own kernel but surely you might be able to get away with chroot
00:08.09Crnkojbeh chroot
00:08.16Crnkoji can chroot in whichever linux i want to lol
00:08.38psycho_oreoswell chroot into meego CE and see if you like it :)
00:08.57psycho_oreosthat's the free alternative once you have ported it onto android.. surely someone has done it before though
00:09.06Crnkojnot for thsi device
00:09.07Crnkojim sure
00:09.57psycho_oreosnah not specifically but chroot doesn't really care what android handset you're on let alone any device.. it just requires your device to run its contents
00:10.15Crnkojye i know
00:10.27Crnkojbut than its just sucky lol
00:10.27Crnkojnot fine
00:10.31Crnkojevreything what i dont want
00:11.39psycho_oreoswell.. you probably could install meego on your device in somewhat a dualboot/multiboot fashion, but I don't know about the locked bootloader on it.. and also you might not have complete functionality even with meego kernel running on your device
00:12.04psycho_oreosfor instance you would lose functionality to telephony, wlan, gprs, bluetooth, etc
00:12.18Crnkoji would have to fuck around with all of that
00:12.25Crnkojesp telephony woudl be a pita probably
00:12.29Crnkojwlan maybe less
00:12.35Crnkojdont care about bluetooth :P
00:12.42psycho_oreosthough the bottom line is you'd still get meego running on it :) which would somewhat be a start :)
00:12.45Crnkojand ye cant do dualboot with this bootloader
00:12.54Crnkojsince its unlocked so you can flash whatever kernel system and so on
00:12.58Crnkojbut you cant reflash teh bootloader
00:13.04Crnkojheh ya
00:13.09psycho_oreosheh that's what I thought, locked bootloader
00:13.26Crnkojye well
00:13.29psycho_oreosonly for nexus and nexus S I've heard that comes with unlocked bootloader
00:13.29Crnkojits unlocked but signed
00:13.38Crnkojthats two things
00:13.47Crnkoji mean it comes locked and signed
00:13.54Crnkojbut an unlocked one got leaked
00:14.02Crnkojbut from motorola in fact lol
00:14.03Crnkojso funny
00:14.32Crnkojand the secure boot key isnt available
00:14.36Crnkojfor the phone (obviously)
00:14.43Crnkojso one cant flash his own bootloaders
00:14.43psycho_oreosI remember there was a comment about signed kernels from motorola, I can't remember where but someone made a comment about how anally retentive motorola is with signed ones
00:14.53Crnkojoh ye it is
00:15.00Crnkojeverything has to be signed
00:15.02Crnkojall partitions
00:15.07Crnkojif oyu dont have this kernel
00:15.12Crnkojerm this bootloader sorry
00:15.37Crnkojk man thanks for the info
00:15.42Crnkojits getting late
00:15.42psycho_oreoswell I guess security is somewhat a paramount
00:15.44Crnkojand ill go to sleep
00:15.50psycho_oreosalright nite nite
00:16.06psycho_oreosaegis is worse imo :)
00:16.15Crnkojhonestly, probably motorola devices are the best for government people
00:16.27psycho_oreosnah, they'd probably run RIM
00:16.30Crnkojsince it really is locked down
00:16.38psycho_oreoserr blackberry
00:16.43Crnkojit even offers you encryption of the data
00:16.44Crnkojof all data
00:16.55Crnkojlike of all the files you ahve on your sdcards
00:17.23Crnkojwhich is in my opinion a nifty feature
00:17.30Crnkojsemi useless for me right now
00:17.33Crnkojgn man
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15:47.45mojo_risinhi, is bash shell available on N9?
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16:01.04corecodeis there an openconnect vpn plugin for harmattan?
16:15.42DocScrutinizermojo_risin: kinda, but the problem is it maybe isn't starting
16:16.01DocScrutinizer"missing permissions"
16:17.08mojo_risinDocScrutinizer, i was able to install it and start it
16:23.09DocScrutinizergood, so obviously Nokia fixed that glitch
16:24.05DocScrutinizermy first MALF was when I and javispedro tried to make bash start ;-P
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18:27.40mojo_risinDocScrutinizer, have you tried mounting nfs volume with N9?
18:28.32mojo_risini'm mounting as root, but i'm having a 'nfs bindresvport: Permission denied'
18:28.49mojo_risinwhich should only happen as non root, from what I read
18:29.32mojo_risinfrom the server side all seems ok
18:30.06mojo_risinmountd[11730]: authenticated mount request from for /mnt/sdb6 (/mnt/sdb6)
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19:09.50mojo_risinDocScrutinizer, it seems some security capabilities are blocked by default
19:10.10mojo_risinlike CAP::sys_admin
19:10.24mojo_risinwhich probably means one cannot mount
19:58.56DocScrutinizerI hate to say it: known problem, WONTFIX
20:06.15DocScrutinizerForbidden stuff -> Can't mount.
20:17.04DocScrutinizeryou may want to hope for a proper open-mode kernel offering to run a full HARMattan system with aegis neutered
20:18.23DocScrutinizerrecent rant at the coffeemachine has it it *should* be possible, and only thing you have to accept is the "Warranty void if you continue" warning while flashing that open mode kernel
20:20.48DocScrutinizerIt's still unclear how exactly that kernel has to be patched to work that way, and if Nokia PLATformSECurity will tolerate all that or rather will kill the whole effort down with next update of aegis policies and core components
20:22.27DocScrutinizerNokia associates/employees NOT related to PLATSEC say it should fly, and PLATSEC should be content with it
20:23.09DocScrutinizerbut of course that's a personal notion not backed up by any official statement of Nokia
20:24.27DocScrutinizerthose employees however mentioned they "might ask if such an official statement of Nokia, or rather a 20 line wiki howto regarding open mode could be posted by Nokia"
20:25.55DocScrutinizerI'm very anxious wondering if anything like this will happen
20:57.03messertingDocScrutinizer: Are you saying that, currently, it is not possible to flash the N9 with a community build of Harmattan?
20:58.16DocScrutinizeractually no, a lot of it is closed source
20:59.13DocScrutinizerand even if it wasn't, you can't install anything and have it signed by nokia's cert key, so it would run under aegis
21:01.46DocScrutinizerlook at develsh, it's basically a c 3-liner just calling /bin/sh. The whole point in develsh is it has a aegis manifest in the .deb that is requesting additional so called tokens (aktually permissions) and that manifest or rather the whole .deb is signed by a Nokia cert that makes those requests succeed. If you build the same package and install it, it won't work
21:03.41DocScrutinizerwhich is the whole point and also the fear and loathing coming from this aegis stuff
21:04.42messertingDocScrutinizer: But a total reflash of the entire N9, of Meego then?
21:05.01DocScrutinizerof course is feasible
21:05.21DocScrutinizerif you mean meego proper aka meego-CE
21:05.43messertingyes. Anyone done that? Any vids on youtube?
21:05.53DocScrutinizerI think yes
21:06.16messertingI am also surprise by this aegis stuff
21:06.16DocScrutinizerstskeeps aka Carsten Munk is working on that afaik
21:06.55messertingA bit strange with a so "strict" security, and still, the user don't know what parts of the device any app can access
21:07.13DocScrutinizerthough meanwhile the whole thing seen another renaming: mer and nemo is it now
21:07.47DocScrutinizerI love to do this several times a day:
21:07.50infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
21:08.51messertingYes, I love that Trused Computing video. Very good.
21:13.33messertingMy N900 is superior to the N9 in so many ways. Yet, the N9 is so slim and nice...
21:17.33DocScrutinizerfeels alike
22:12.24mojo_risinDocScrutinizer, thanks for your explanation, very interesting
22:12.46mojo_risinone thing that made me buy the N9 was the promise of an open platform
22:13.15mojo_risini see that i wasn't so well informed after all
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23:25.02DocScrutinizerI think Nokia has to fulfil a promise here
23:27.13DocScrutinizeras actually you couldn't tell from any of the advertising and info about N9 that it's not exactly as open a platform as you'd expect - in fact nobody would think N9 is so fundamentally different than N900 regarding the OS and openness
23:29.15DocScrutinizermeego, when started, was meant to be even more open than maemo. No matter whether Nokia calls the N9 OS now meego or maemo, they more than once actively suggested it's *open*
23:30.36DocScrutinizerand "open" is not meant to be interpreted as "you may look at the source, to learn or build your own OS based on it"
23:31.14DocScrutinizeropen means I have full access to each detail of the OS the device is shipping with

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