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| 12:58.15 | Richlv | heya. don't have n9 yet... but when i will, what/how can i control about the device from the cli ? |
| 12:58.33 | Richlv | for example, can i write a bash script that tells it to take photos (to make some time-lapse video or somesuch) ? |
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| 13:22.58 | merlin1991 | Richlv: that example should be possible |
| 13:23.17 | merlin1991 | though in general if you have a n900 you'll feel far more restricted |
| 13:23.34 | Richlv | n9 would be my first nokia phone :) |
| 13:23.39 | Richlv | any example son restrictions ? |
| 13:23.47 | Richlv | (examples on, of course) |
| 13:24.09 | Richlv | or maybe some pages i could read on that |
| 13:28.21 | mgedmin | infobot, aegis |
| 13:28.21 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
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| 14:10.07 | DocScrutinizer | Richlv: seems scripts can't act like usual executables, even with chmod +x you still can't execute them by mere cmdname invocation, you probably need to pass rhen to shell as parameter: sh -c myscript |
| 14:12.29 | DocScrutinizer | also a lot of stuff is simply not allowed, like e.g sending a dbus cmd to mce to make the indicator LED flash a pattern - sth that was pretty much standard on fremantle/N900 |
| 14:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | for taking photos you probably can do this by directly exploiting gstreamer/v4l2, but I guess there's no way to control the build in camera-GUI |
| 14:15.08 | DocScrutinizer | huge parts are completely unclear yet, for example I'd not know whether or not you could initiate a phonecall |
| 14:16.53 | DocScrutinizer | as a rule of thumb you could say the whole platform is meant to work under QML based apps only, what QML/QtMobility/et_al doesn't provide is usually cumbersome at least, frequently even not feasible at all |
| 14:18.40 | DocScrutinizer | a typical example: you can't change anything relating to system-init and/or basic system config, as all (or most of) the files in /etc are locked |
| 14:20.15 | Richlv | DocScrutinizer, thanks. i was more thinking of things like grepping over sms messages, nuking them by pattern search, having scripted sound profile changing etc |
| 14:20.36 | DocScrutinizer | basically impossible |
| 14:20.37 | Richlv | i recall reaqding about some developer mode or something - wouldn't that lift the restrictions ? |
| 14:20.47 | Richlv | dang |
| 14:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | and developer mode doesn't help much |
| 14:23.07 | DocScrutinizer | it basically allows you to install your own apps, rather than only get them thru OVI store, and it enables some tools like xterm etc, but e.g. SMS are stored *somewhere* in a protected file system, in an undocumented way, and editing them for sure isn't simply and from cli it's impossible, you need to resort to QML methods if any are available, I guess |
| 14:24.50 | DocScrutinizer | N9 is defined as a consumer device and anything that *might* confuse the joe average user, like e.g make LED blink, is blocked by aegis |
| 14:26.59 | DocScrutinizer | to give you a general idea: on harmattan you got a root account, but root isn't allowed to write or delete files in user's home dir, nor to send signals to user processes |
| 14:29.24 | DocScrutinizer | it looks like a linux system, but thanks to aegis policies and the restrictions the introduce, almost nothing will work the way you'd expect it to work when you are familiar with true linux systems |
| 14:29.50 | Sput | I was actually surprised that the N9 still had the easy-to-enable developer mode |
| 14:30.28 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't matter as even with developer mode you can't really do the hardcore stuff |
| 14:32.02 | DocScrutinizer | don't assume you get a linux phone when you buy a N9 |
| 14:33.30 | DocScrutinizer | you get a hw platfor you *could* install your own true linux on it, but then Nokia's closed apps like dialer, messaging, calendar, contacts wouldn't work on that true linux. That'S it basically |
| 14:36.33 | Sput | it was never marketed as a Linux phone though |
| 14:36.45 | DocScrutinizer | a competent developer yesterday posted in #harmattan >>ok, now I got all the bits for sshfs/fuse compiled and they basically work, but I still can't mount or export sshfs fuse volumes<< it turned out it probably never will work on harmattan, thanks to aegis security policies not allowing it |
| 14:37.03 | Sput | it's really a pity of course |
| 14:37.30 | Sput | but I wouldn't expect future phones from any company to be more open, I think the era of N900-like hacking devices is over |
| 14:37.47 | Sput | even when they run Linux... |
| 14:38.16 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, I'm not all that sure about the end of true FOSS on mobile phones |
| 14:38.27 | Sput | the easiest way to secure a platform, from the vendor's point of view, is making the rootfs read-only and only allow to run stuff like QML or sandbox all apps |
| 14:38.54 | DocScrutinizer | yes, and that's basically what they do on harmattan |
| 14:39.15 | Sput | well, obviously it depends on the market... but if you target a mass market, as a vendor you probably don't want to risk anything going wrong, just imagine what happened if there really was some exploit |
| 14:39.43 | Sput | there certainly is also a market for geeks like us who want to have hackable gadgets, but there are different requirements I guess |
| 14:39.43 | DocScrutinizer | but, as mentioned above, you *could* (and actually can) install your own kernel and rootfs on N9, just you need your own core apps then |
| 14:40.02 | Sput | yeah, so the hardware isn't fully closed, which is good |
| 14:40.24 | Sput | the platform is, but then again it removes the risk of "platform was exploited, 100 million users affected" |
| 14:40.37 | DocScrutinizer | alas not |
| 14:40.57 | Sput | assuming you have a strict model like read-only rootfs and sandboxed apps :) |
| 14:41.11 | DocScrutinizer | aegis is about "secure environment for 3rd party apps" - it doesn't block malware per se |
| 14:41.28 | Sput | aegis is I guess something bolted on a normal Linux as an afterthought and certainly not perfect or even good |
| 14:41.50 | Sput | but I don't know enough about it to judge |
| 14:42.14 | Sput | my point is mostly that I wouldn't expect mass-marketed Linux phones to be as hackable in the future as the N900 was |
| 14:42.18 | Sput | ... how hackable is Android btw? |
| 14:42.23 | DocScrutinizer | it is good at what it's designed for. Just it never was meant to protect users, it's meant to protect intellectual property |
| 14:42.38 | Sput | yeah that could well be |
| 14:43.57 | Sput | you know, in the end it's a really good phone with a real good SDK for app developers, which is mostly what matters for the target group I think... unfortunately, it's not something for geeks like us who like tinkering with the system |
| 14:51.40 | DocScrutinizer | yep, the SDK is just fine for fart-apps plus a bit on top ;-D |
| 14:54.57 | DocScrutinizer | getting cups to work for printing: maybe. Getting a BT->RS232 adapter working to connect your printer directly, or get USB hostmode working (though hw is way less spoiled than N900): no way |
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| 16:28.13 | Richlv | <DocScrutinizer> you get a hw platfor you *could* install your own true linux on it, but then Nokia's closed apps like dialer, messaging, calendar, contacts wouldn't work on that true linux. That'S it basically |
| 16:28.17 | Richlv | quite a shame |
| 16:28.29 | Richlv | will send a rant to nokia for them to ignore |
| 16:28.29 | Richlv | :) |
| 16:28.58 | Richlv | still, it seems way better than that prostitute phone, so i guess i'll try to play with one |
| 16:29.57 | DocScrutinizer | it's for sure a nice shiny phone that just works |
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| 18:36.32 | vsync_ | Richlv you don't need nokia's dialing software or that stuff |
| 18:40.21 | vsync_ | AT modem commands |
| 18:41.59 | Sput | probably won't take too long until the FOSS community has created replacements |
| 18:42.04 | Sput | or maybe ported from Maemo |
| 18:45.34 | Sput | or maybe just kdepim |
| 18:45.59 | Sput | since kdelibs already work on Harmattan... |
| 18:50.13 | Richlv | vsync_, meh. no, that doesn't sound attractive :) |
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| 20:53.56 | DocScrutinizer | vsync_: you're sure you know what you're talking about? |
| 20:54.24 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia BB5 modem has ISI interface, which doesn't talk any AT cmd set |
| 20:54.55 | DocScrutinizer | compare pnatd on fremantle |
| 20:55.31 | DocScrutinizer | which is a simple AT interpreter to emulate a few AT cmds for ISI |
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