IRC log for #maemo on 20071115

00:11.56*** join/#maemo l7 (
00:12.57Atarii i just get unsupported file type when trying this
00:14.05gla55_there's a reason why you're browsing mobile youtube?
00:14.36gla55_it's just video files supported by most mobile phones
00:14.58*** join/#maemo Dregz (n=Dregs@unaffiliated/dregz)
00:14.58gla55_3gp of some sort i think, never checked that far
00:15.12gla55_but they only got a really really really small subset of vids of youtube
00:15.23gla55_which makes it suck big time and totally useless as service too
00:15.52Atariilol thanks for pointing that out
00:16.19gla55_i would have expected the media player to support 3gp to be honest though
00:18.18fysaoh, it's only a subset?  shitty.
00:19.57zerojaygla55_: They play perfectly full screen in media player, that's why you'd use it.
00:20.57gla55_fysa: go to's recently added, they add like a fucking 1 video per day
00:21.08svuheh, nokia released stupid n82 instead of n810. The difference is n728...
00:21.56gla55_so at now for youtube the 'mobile' site is more like a placeholder.. sure it works etc nicely, from phone too. but wheres the fun without the copyrighted content from regular tube
00:21.59GeneralAntillesHas ANYBODY successfully downloaded the maps for Eastern US?
00:22.08GeneralAntillesIt's failed around 40-60% on me 4 times now.
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00:32.27pupnikit could be worse
00:35.32GeneralAntillesI could be stuck on a 770? :P
00:37.32*** part/#maemo celesteh (
00:44.13disqjust flashed the n810 firmware on n800, works
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00:47.15GeneralAntillesYes, it's quite tasty.
00:49.17disqblazing fast too. or maybe it's the pristine firmware (didn't restore from backup)
00:50.59GeneralAntillesIt surely blazes. :D
00:57.47ds3the N770 definitely does not like the microb engine :(
01:00.27zerojaydisq: Unfortunately, Maemo Scrobbler doesn't seem to work.
01:00.40disqi'll test it once i get kagu to install
01:01.00zerojayIt shows the countdown in the control panel being stuck.
01:04.55|tbb|will the new os be able to use bt a2dp headsets without the kagu hack?
01:05.15|tbb|kagu mplayer hack, or however u call it
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01:26.27GeneralAntillesI notice that touchscreen input for scrolling is smoother under OS2008
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01:40.30nwidgerso is the n810 out yet?
01:40.55*** join/#maemo rghosh (
01:40.58GeneralAntillesIt's being shipped to distributors
01:41.01GeneralAntillesSoon enough. :)
01:42.05nwidgerhas anyone ordered theirs from
01:42.30GeneralAntillesJust wait for it to hit a real store.
01:42.52nwidgerbut they have it for 417 w/ shipping
01:43.09nwidgerisnt that really cheap?
01:43.34GeneralAntillesYou can buy stuff cheap a lot of places, no guarantee that you'll get it in a timely fashion or in good shape. ;)
01:43.40GeneralAntillesI'd just buy an N800, personaly.
01:43.43zerojayOr even at that price.
01:44.03nwidgerzerojay: what do you mean?
01:44.36zerojayA lot of sites put up extra cheap prices before a product is released to get sales/attention and then pull the "oh, the MSRP was higher, sorry" deal.
01:44.59nwidgerzerojay: but if you ordered it now they cant jack the price up
01:45.05nwidgerthey'd have already charged your card
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01:45.11zerojaynwidger: That's what you think.
01:45.24nwidgerhow is that legal?
01:45.41zerojayThey can claim they didn't know what the final price was or wasn't announced.
01:45.47zerojayHappens all the time.
01:46.04nwidgerthat's a sack of dicks
01:49.21rghoshhow would i install an ssh server on the n800 with os2008? dropbear doesn't seem to be available
01:49.31_Monkeyopenssh is, like, to big for embbeded devince (just sbz's opinion) and dropbear is done for that, so
01:49.44GeneralAntillesJust enable the Extras repo
01:51.40*** join/#maemo Sho_ (i=ehs1@kde/hein)
01:55.10disqzerojay: maemoscrobbler did work for me
01:55.55disqzerojay: after entering your user/pass, hit continue, then hit OK (so let the control panel applet close)
01:56.30zerojayCould it be because I restored from a backup.
01:56.40disqdon't think so, maybe
01:56.43disqi didn't restore from a backup
01:57.01zerojayI'll try to clear it.
01:57.02disq(instead I backed up the entire rootfs to mmc, already got dual boot set up)
01:57.22disqhang on i'll give you a cmdline to clear maemoscrobbler gconf
01:58.37disq"gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/maemoscrobbler"
01:59.29disqbut could you please try it without the gconf hack? just dive into the control panel play, hit continue, hit ok
02:00.08zerojayContinue isn't able to be clicked.
02:00.15disqbtw for scrobbling to work (in kagu anyways, ukmp ignores this and breaks the spec) you need to play more than 50% of the song
02:00.26zerojayAnd the submission countdown is frozen at 13:44.
02:01.06zerojayWhen I first flashed 2008, I had the same problem, but it was stuck at 8:44.
02:01.38zerojayIt's too bad maemo scrobbler isn't more active.. pulling from media player for example.
02:01.45disqinteresting. could you run a "gconftool-2 -a /apps/maemoscrobbler" and see what the output says? or paste it to me (the "passmd5" isn't needed, don't paste that)
02:01.49zerojayBecause scrobbling is the only reason I use Kagu.
02:02.03disqpulling from media player correctly isn't possible
02:02.18disqit only gives you the title, not the artist or other info
02:02.22zerojaygconftool2 not found.
02:02.26disqand it's pain to work with
02:02.34disqmind the "-". gconftool-2
02:03.09*** join/#maemo javamaniac (n=gerardo@
02:03.15zerojaylasterrortime = 1104051490
02:03.25zerojayusername = darkstalker
02:03.33zerojayscrobble = false
02:03.36zerojaysubmit = true
02:03.39zerojaylasterror = 1
02:03.45disqscrobble=false? you got both checkboxes checked?
02:03.49zerojayBut that's after I tried to fill it in again.
02:03.55zerojayI had just disabled it.
02:03.59disqah. ok
02:04.46zerojayContinue is never enabled.
02:05.06disqit's only enabled when you get a repeating error (like invalid password, etc)
02:05.23disqyou're supposed to click it when you fix the invalid data (username, password, that kind of thing)
02:05.30zerojaySure, but at the very least, I expect to see the time until the next submission.
02:05.47zerojaySo.. not sure what's going on.
02:05.57zerojayNot that I have anything to USE it installed yet, but still. ;)
02:06.01disqmy maemoscrobbler settings are nearly exact. scrobble=true, submit=true, lasterror=1, lasterrortime=some unixtime
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02:07.10disqplease run a "ps ax|grep scrobb" and see "/usr/bin/scrobblerd --dbus" is there and running. same for "ps ax|grep songlis" to see "/usr/bin/songlistend --dbus"
02:07.52disqdebugging it by hand is a lengthy process as you'll need to install syslogd and all
02:07.52zerojayHaving xterm installed by default is nice, btw. ;)
02:08.06disqdidn't use it yet. installed openssh
02:08.23disqah, let me hack gainroot so i don't have to keep the rd mode on
02:08.50zerojayscrobblerd isn't running.
02:09.01disqit probably means kagu didn't launch it
02:09.36disqwhen you play a song, kagu makes a dbus call. which in turns runs songlistend. then songlistend makes a dbus call when it's time to notify scrobbler
02:09.45zerojayAh, okay.
02:09.53zerojayWell, don't have a version of Kagu to install so... ;)
02:10.12disqwell, then your bugreport is invalid :P
02:10.26disqyou could install the bora version, worked ok for me
02:10.43zerojayI'll give it a shot.
02:10.46disqtho i immediately updated to the in-development svn one
02:10.57*** join/#maemo penguinbait (
02:11.43disqi need osso-statusbar-cpu
02:12.24disqcan't really bitch about metacrawler when i don't have my cpumeter
02:12.38zerojaymetacrawler appears to be far faster.
02:14.42disqthat's because you don't have a cpugraph to go with it :P
02:15.12penguinbaitis that a joke zerojay
02:15.22zerojayWell, I mean that media player doesn't take ages to list songs anymore for me.
02:15.24penguinbaitfaster to use up your CPU?
02:15.33disqtho seems like nokia/osso got it right this time. it's blazing fast. api break to get to the new gtk/pango/whatever was worth it
02:15.39zerojayI've never had trouble with metacrawler. Ever.
02:15.50zerojaydisq: Absolutely.
02:16.03penguinbaitI have always had problems, it must not like KDE subdirs
02:16.22disqi don't ever use the builtin media player so i don't need metalayer-crawler
02:16.24zerojayThere's so many things that they've fixed and made little changes to that help tremendously.
02:16.56penguinbaitworks great :)
02:17.17zerojayMicrob and RTCOMM no longer being out of beta... far more solid too.
02:17.27zerojayNo longer being in beta, I meant.
02:18.25zerojayNow just give me Camera and Video Center back and I'll be a happy man.
02:18.57penguinbaitI just want to enter in some code
02:19.19disqwell. m-l-crawler still eating away my cpu. but it's reniced now. i'll disable it again, to save a few jolts on the battery
02:20.24rghoshGeneralAntilles: thanks for the openssh tip
02:20.26disqzerojay: got kagu yet?
02:20.32GeneralAntillesSure thing.
02:20.42zerojaydisq: Got sidetracked. Hang on.
02:20.43rghoshKhertan: python installs fine, follow instructions on
02:21.39zerojaymidnight commander?
02:21.47rghosh(by editing /etc/apt/sources.list and then do apt-get update, apt-get install python2.5-runtime)
02:21.54disqenvironment bookmarks bundled in, that's so trendy of nokia
02:22.25zerojayUnable to install python2.5-runtime.
02:22.38zerojaydisq: Open the Images program too.
02:22.46rghoshzerojay: see (09:18:47 PM)
02:22.55rghoshand (09:19:52 PM) (regarding python)
02:23.37zerojayapt-get.. ugh.. forget that.
02:23.44disqi did it by adding the line "deb chinook free non-free" to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
02:23.54GeneralAntillesHaha, my thoughts exactly, disq. ;)
02:23.56disqtried sources.list first but it was empty
02:23.59GeneralAntillesJust restore a backup.
02:24.25disqlike the glasser color scheme better btw. black and grey is too sardine for me now
02:25.56zerojayPlankton is listed.. hehe.
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02:27.35zerojaydisq: I just did it in application manager just fine.
02:28.50disqbtw mine somehow doesn't automount the external mmc until i open and reclose the mmc door
02:29.14disqmounts internal ext2 mmc just fine (and it's ext2)
02:30.20disqdon't get me wrong i'm not complaining :)
02:31.05zerojayThe Kagu one click install on gives me a 500 error. :)
02:31.39disqthat's garage's fault :P could you install the deb directly from garage? go to and find kagu
02:32.41l7disq: which media player do you use?
02:33.01l7is the built-in media player pretty bad?
02:33.46disqi use kagu. it was pretty bad in os2007 (no playlist editions) i guess it's getting better now
02:34.05zerojayI've always liked the built-in.
02:34.41zerojaySimple, doesn't get in your way.. lets you use your tablet while listening to music and doesn't switch around the button schemes.
02:36.03disqi like the simplicity too, but it is way too limited for my taste
02:36.33disqplanning to write a lighter kagu someday
02:36.35zerojayThe only thing I want added to it (besides ogg support) is scrobbling.
02:37.07zerojayUnable to install Kagu.
02:37.31zerojaychown: /home/user/.kagu/: no such file or directory
02:37.48disqthat shouldn't be an error
02:38.18disqmaybe app mgr now just bails when it sees something in stdout?
02:38.22disqerm, stderr
02:38.30zerojayprocess 4937: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory
02:38.52disqi got that error from the chinook beta sdk. never happened to me again
02:39.02zerojaySee the manual page for dbus-uuidgen to correct this issue.
02:39.34zerojaysubprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 134.
02:39.49zerojayapt-worker command 6 already pending.
02:40.14disqyeah got it, tried myself from appmgr
02:40.31zerojayI'm in blue pill mode, if it helps.
02:40.32disqyou should be install it with dpkg -i
02:40.48disq(apt-get install kagu after adding the bora repo worked for me a few minutes ago)
02:40.55zerojayAttempting to install it says "Updating kagu". Heh
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03:19.11disqzerojay: fixed it in svn. dpkg -i should work tho
03:34.02pupnikSPO QBVM!!!!
03:34.26disqooh new mce settings
03:35.03GeneralAntillesMake sure to change the "offline" settings
03:35.10GeneralAntillesthe new ones don't jive with the old ones.
03:35.40GeneralAntillesSomebody hax up something cool to do with the double-click.
03:43.04disqcouldn't get doubleclick to work
03:45.48GeneralAntillesI didn't work the first time I tried it.
03:45.56GeneralAntillesThen, somehow, it worked later.
03:46.05GeneralAntillesI currently have both longpress and double set to soft power
03:47.33disqsoftpoweroff doesn't lock the screen now?
03:47.57GeneralAntillesDoes for me.
03:48.13disqi even hear the click sounds
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03:52.37zerojaydisq: Cool.
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04:08.59disqerm. just got initfs running. booted bora with chinook kernel/initfs
04:09.17disqof course it also runs 400mhz
04:09.57penguinbaitno wlan though
04:10.09penguinbaitmine was also very unstable
04:10.18disqwireless doesn't work but i don't really care since it's only for testing stuff like "did i break kagu on bora while fixing it for chinook" etc
04:10.36penguinbaitoh I used mine also :)
04:11.54disqcouldn't test how fast maemomapper has become, too lazy to reconfigure repositories (moved bora to mmc)
04:17.47zerojaywow, plankton is pretty neat on 2008,
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04:21.07Tb0n3I loled
04:22.02zerojayIt's in extras, I think.
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04:22.44disqi switched back to glasser. sorry, but i miss the orange
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04:25.12GeneralAntillesWTH: "Disconnect charger from power supply to save energy"
04:25.21GeneralAntillesThere has GOT to be a way to turn that nonsense off. :\
04:28.07penguinbaitwow,my Juk in KDE all sound great with 2008 OS
04:28.50penguinbaitit used to distort when draggin windows
04:29.28penguinbaitdoes 2008 OS for 810 add any functionality to USB on n800?
04:31.49penguinbaitin Kinfocenter it shows ""MUSB HDRC host driver" USB 2.00
04:32.12disqprobably, new kernel and all
04:33.41penguinbaitso host support out of the box, I will have to go test
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04:49.45pupnikI really hate device lust
04:50.05pupnikhow did they make me want a N810
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04:50.23pupnikit was the damn shiny pics
04:50.38GeneralAntillesThe 770 shipped with a small aerosol to be activated by Nokia at the right time.
04:51.30pupniki liked your comments on the n900 thread GeneralAntilles
04:52.11pupnikI have wasted so.. much... damn... time trying to get things faster on 770
04:52.16pupnikand now it's all pointless
04:53.05pupnikBut it's all good.  I'll draw the line and from now on it will be 2420 and beyond
04:53.23GeneralAntillesYou ought to just wait for the N900.
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04:53.49pupnikthey gave me a code for 810 so i can afford it
04:53.56GeneralAntillesAh, right.
04:53.59GeneralAntillesNevermind, then.
04:54.17pupniki'm so grateful
04:55.34pupnikit just kills me that i am not a good programmer
04:57.42pupnikit's totally sick how much time i need to do simple stuff
04:58.25pupnikbut with the n810 and cheaper n800 i think we will get more talented people involved
04:58.31|RI just went through the whole 500 people list
04:58.45GeneralAntillesThe platform is growing by leaps and bounds
04:58.58|Rto see who had personal/business web sites... many interesting people from research/linux distros/embedded devs/OpenMoko fans, etc :)
04:59.01GeneralAntillesnot only will we get the devs with that, but others will be attracted by the userbase
04:59.16pupnikagree GeneralAntilles
04:59.30pupnikit is a competition for minds
05:00.02GeneralAntillesNokia's got a big head start in the market
05:00.06GeneralAntilleslets hope they can hold it.
05:00.37|RAny idea what the n* user base is?
05:00.44|R(what size that is...)
05:00.49pupniki'm trying to convince the gp2x guys that they should hook up with maemo/itos..
05:00.52GeneralAntillesNot counting 770 users? :P
05:01.03|Rboth numbers if you can :)
05:01.14pupnikthey're all a bunch of hackers who have no clue about the work that has been done on this side
05:01.23GeneralAntilles(770 isn't an N-series device ;))
05:01.31GeneralAntillesBut, no, we don't have any good numbers on the userbase
05:01.46pupnikbut those guys have the best emulator developers
05:01.52GeneralAntillesProbably a few estimates with maemo and other 3rd party repo numbers.
05:02.04pupnikif the craigulator goes with maemo, then we combine forces
05:02.21pupnikthe craigulator will be like a n810 with gaming controls and omap3430 and opengl
05:02.28GeneralAntillesYeah, actually, as long as maemo stays strong
05:02.36GeneralAntillesbe nice to see more manufacturer's adopt it.
05:03.16pupniki need to get a line to the producer and give him the maemo smack-down
05:03.41l7so what devices are nokia's tablet competitors?
05:04.00GeneralAntillesHonestly? Right now? Nothing.
05:04.02l7ipod touch (ha ha)
05:04.28l7psp seemed to have a large userbase of hackers...
05:04.33GeneralAntillesSome would argue that the iPhone/iPod is a competitor, and maybe the Archos lineup
05:04.37l7sony really blew that opportunity imho
05:04.38GeneralAntillesbut neither of those compare
05:04.42|Rdepends if you go by price / feature / market / ...
05:04.46GeneralAntillesNo kidding
05:04.58GeneralAntillesI don't get why they tried to stomp out homebrew so hard
05:05.02GeneralAntillesthey should've embraced it
05:05.16|RSony are a bunch of morons always trying to push proprietary crap
05:05.18l7yeah, well... sony has a history of being paranoid
05:05.36l7about openness
05:05.39l7remember the minidisc?
05:05.48|Ror they memory stick?
05:05.55l7ugh memory stick
05:06.05|Ror anything they've put out in the last 20 years? :P
05:06.15l7stupid, proprietary, overpriced
05:06.36|Rthey're like apple basically...
05:06.51l7it's kinda said because sony does make neat stuff now and then
05:07.03GeneralAntillesApple is nothing like Sony.
05:07.08GeneralAntillesApple actually puts out cool stuff. ;)
05:07.32GeneralAntillesTheir CRT TVs are the only good thing they put out these days.
05:07.36|RSony has some pretty cool stuff now and then, they're just in some many markets that it gets flooded under loads of crap
05:08.10|Rwell i don't have example as i got fed up with them and stoped following but ;)
05:08.19penguinbaitapple was a good record label
05:08.34penguinbaitgood in pie too
05:09.34GeneralAntillesI miss the Happy Mac. :(
05:09.56|Rhaha yeah!
05:09.58*** join/#maemo pupnik_ (
05:10.18pupnik_it must be taken now.  not in 4 weeks.  not in 2008
05:10.49|Rwhat must?
05:11.04l7actually i remember now that the PSP units didn't make much $ for sony
05:11.15l7i think their revenue stream was from the games
05:12.02penguinbaitthey should have embraced homebrew instead of trying to lock it out
05:12.02penguinbaitbad decision
05:12.02GeneralAntillesYeah, that was stupid.
05:12.02l7yeah i agree
05:12.02l7how would they make money though?
05:12.02GeneralAntillesEspecially seeing how hard the homebrew guys are working to get in
05:12.02_Monkeyi think hardware is the same as far as i can make out
05:12.02penguinbaitupdated hardware
05:12.06GeneralAntillesimagine if that effort had gone to real work?
05:12.14l7they could have made a pretty penny on keyboards :)
05:12.30GeneralAntillesThey could've made money off the movies, too, if they were priced somewhat reasonably
05:12.35penguinbaitmany people will still buy the software and movies
05:12.36l7PSP hardware is still pretty nice i think, in terms of graphics processing
05:12.51l7yeah, larger userbase = more sales
05:13.09l7anyone have an idea how much money nokia makes off each n800 or n810?
05:13.13penguinbaitits all about marketshare
05:13.24l7i mean i'm going to buy the n800
05:13.39l7but i'm not sure i really want anything else nokia makes for accessories
05:13.48l7maybe the case, but proporta looks better
05:13.50zerojayGeneralAntilles: They want to embrace homebrew. In fact, they were the first company to embrace homebrew with both the PS1 and PS2. The reason why they can't on the PSP is that they have no way of sandboxing user applications. Any user app can pretty much brick the firmware if it wanted to.
05:13.53penguinbaitI cant wait to get 810 in my hands
05:14.05zerojaypenguinbait: Agreed.
05:14.15pupnik_l7 - open source must destroy evil
05:14.30l7pupnik_: for great justice! :)
05:14.32pupnik_the tablets are just a vehicle in the holy jihad
05:14.33l7we can hope
05:14.41|Rhaha :D
05:14.44l7lol, linux jihad
05:14.50|Rthe embedded intifadah!
05:14.59l7get the penguin a machine gun :)
05:15.15pupnik_my friends wrote a song under a major label in 1993 called 'techno jihad'
05:15.17l7or a tank
05:15.19pupnik_i'll share it sometime
05:15.20penguinbaitI wonder how many FBI agents are on there way to this room?
05:15.22l7penguinrace with tanks?
05:15.37penguinbaitThe penguin is the bait!
05:15.43|Ror this ;)
05:15.55l7the penguin is everywhere!
05:16.13|Rjust do tux+gun on google image :P
05:16.17penguinbaittux rules!
05:16.22pupnik_you know the only thing that is better than linux is the BSD babe
05:16.41|Rwe're getting into geek pr0n subjects..
05:17.23|R <- absolutely NSFW but as far as Linux/BSD chicks goes, it's a nice collection ;)
05:18.10l7heh, i wonder who bankrolled the bsd babe
05:18.27pupnik_  her name is ceren and she really used bsd
05:18.52l7my mind keeps scrambling bsd into another acronym
05:19.05|Rlsd ?
05:19.07l7er no
05:19.14pupnik_bodalicous sexy dominatrix
05:19.19|Rwell, berkeley, you know ;)
05:20.23l7this one would make stallman happier
05:20.37pupnik_see... the babe pics do not compare to device lust
05:20.44pupnik_that is the horrible thing
05:20.48|Rmakes me want to use them in a happy tree friend like scenario
05:21.13|Rpupnik_ : screwed as a species we are ;)
05:21.16l7pupnik_: heh, it depends on the babe
05:21.33|Rit depends of where that babe is related to me ;)
05:21.50l7maybe nokia needs to hire an n810 babe for marketing
05:22.11pupnik_not sum dum bimbo
05:22.18pupnik_a girl who can program bash
05:22.25pupnik_that would kick ass
05:23.24|Rhaha, i listened to too much nerdcore today to not find this funny :P
05:23.52l7what's nerdcore?
05:24.13|Ri wish, but it's more like hip-hop nerd style
05:24.14captlloydits like rap for nerds
05:24.15|Rit's pretty funny
05:24.36captlloydnerd hip-hop
05:24.50|Rtry to get MC Plus+ - Chip Hop Nerd
05:25.14|RCord: 1337 G33K B3At - Emulation Station
05:25.34|RCord = or
05:25.50l7like Weird Al's Nerd White Guy song?
05:25.57pupnik_you fail to see how cool a name ceren is
05:25.59|RFuturistic Sex Robotz has some funny stuff too (and some pretty bad ;)
05:26.26pupnik_it could be a corporation of ult.. well nokia is a good name too
05:26.38pupnik_but ceren could dominate genetics
05:27.00pupnik_shit, this channel is logged
05:27.16l7oh yeah, i forgot :\
05:27.46l7well, it'll make some funny reading when someone finds it with google...
05:28.28*** join/#maemo blassey_ (n=blassey@
05:28.31|RI keep finding myself when searching stuff for maemo haha
05:28.44|Rl7 : what's the other weird al song with computer chips etc ?
05:29.03l7|R: hrm, i'm not sure
05:29.10captlloydthat one that's "All about the pentiums">
05:29.11l7i just know about the other one from youtube
05:29.22l7haha, sounds funny
05:29.31*** join/#maemo rkaway (
05:29.49l7all about the x86s maybe
05:29.55|Rah yes, "It's all about the pentium"
05:30.10|Roops, lagging ;)
05:31.05|Rwhatchya wanna do? wanna be hackers? code crackers? slackers? :P
05:31.07captlloydJust a little less than 2 weeks until I get my N810.  *sigh* seems so far.
05:31.26|Rcaptlloyd : from ? :)
05:32.17|Rok :)
05:32.59captlloydI got a 4GB MiniSD for it from for real cheap.
05:33.45l7how much?
05:33.49l7off brand?
05:34.05|R <- haha never saw this one
05:34.14|RWeirdAl / eBay
05:34.19captlloydKingston, I think they're less than $27 right now
05:34.32*** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@
05:34.34captlloyd$10 off if you area first time user of google checkout
05:34.56l7captlloyd: hrm, $17 + free shipping is alright
05:35.06l7why not just get an 8gb though?
05:35.20captlloydCouldn't find one
05:35.38l7newegg has those transend 8gbs iirc...
05:35.52zerojayhow much?
05:36.00|RminiSD ?
05:36.01l7about $60
05:36.16l7not miniSD, sorry
05:36.25l7i tend to selectively misread sometimes :)
05:36.28|Rhaven't seen anything > than 4GB on MiniSD but you  can get 6 and 8GB microSD
05:36.30|Rgo figure
05:36.36|RminiSD is dead format :|
05:36.43captlloydminiSD is really not very popular
05:36.47|R(but hey, it works with microSD as long as you get an adapter with it...)
05:36.56l7how was the guy who did the n810 video on internettablettalk?
05:37.06l7he seemed to have micro to minisd adapter
05:37.23|R8GB go for around 100$
05:37.31|Rreggie i guess?
05:38.02*** join/#maemo DigitalNight (
05:39.44*** join/#maemo javamaniac (n=gerardo@
05:40.43l7what code?
05:40.44_Monkeycode is clean, simple
05:40.56|Rdeveloper rebate program
05:41.15l7i thought it would be out by now
05:41.24|Ri wish
05:42.14|Rdownloadable ringtones: No <- haha
05:42.19l7hrm one feature of the n810's that i would like is the kickstand with multiple positions
05:42.40|Rit only has one?
05:42.54l7i thought the n800 only has one kickstand "setting"
05:43.03l7not bad
05:43.10l7n810 has 3?
05:43.14|Rno clue
05:43.16l7n900 will have 4!
05:43.54|Rthey should make an ad selling the tablet on that strong point!
05:44.08|RNIT! now with one more kick stand position!
05:44.33l7buy it now!
05:44.51l7is anyone working on a youtube client for maemo?
05:45.05l7iphone's youtube client seems like a good idea
05:45.06|Rstream ripper?
05:45.14l7oh yeah
05:45.19|Rhaven't seen it, what does it do?
05:45.42captlloydYou thinking something like uktube?
05:45.44l7well i guess it just lets you play youtube videos with less hassel
05:45.52_Monkeyi heard uktube was what I'm missing mainly right now
05:46.46l7captlloyd: just thinking of something a little easier to use
05:47.12l7i guess it's not that important, since the nokias have better screens than the iphone
05:48.26GeneralAntillesAnybody need a cheap secondary?
05:48.43l7ukmp looks cool
05:48.59l7kinetic scrolling!
05:49.00_Monkeywell, kinetic scrolling is it?
05:49.02*** join/#maemo mikemorrison (
05:49.15K`zanGeneralAntilles:  Getting ready to install the SDK under vmware.  Debian the best choice for that?  Also, would 10G be enough to start with?
05:49.26GeneralAntillesDon't ask me.
05:49.29GeneralAntillesI'm on OS X
05:49.34GeneralAntillesSo no Scratchbox. ;)
05:49.42K`zanCould be slightly worse - could be windoz :).
05:49.43|RDebian works great :)
05:49.53GeneralAntillesThat's a LOT worse. ;)
05:49.59l7ukmp really rival's the iphone interface
05:50.31K`zan|R: Thanks, will use that, think I still have the deb4 CD around here someplace :).
05:51.15K`zanI suppose that the 2008 sdk would be the best choice, even though I will probably have 2007 when the device gets here to start with
05:51.38l7has anyone seen the iphone's google map's widget?
05:51.45l7it's pretty handy
05:52.02*** join/#maemo porter (n=porter@
05:52.21l7i'm hoping someone copies the idea :)
05:52.38K`zanKind of a confusing place to start with this.  only 2007 apps work.
05:52.40GeneralAntillesUh, maemo mapper?
05:52.40_Monkeyi heard maemo mapper was geographical mapping software specifically designed for the Maemo platform and the Nokia 770/N800 form factor.
05:53.57GeneralAntillesSeriously, "Disconnect charger from power supply to save energy"
05:54.12GeneralAntillesWhy does maemo have to be the spearhead for Nokia's stupid green initiative? :\
05:54.32captlloydI wonder when Maemo Mapper will be available for OS2008
05:55.26l7captlloyd: i guess i meant something like Tubular by "youtube client"
05:55.28K`zanWonder if I can get by with 5G for deb and the sdk...
05:55.38kulvecaptlloyd: somebody just yesterday said that he ported it to os2008..
05:55.45kulveso probably "soon"
05:58.48|RK`zan : my /scratchbox is around 2GB
06:00.29K`zan|R: Probably 10G would be wiser then...
06:01.00|Ruhm yes
06:01.07GeneralAntillesI mean . . . for serious. <_<
06:01.08|Rnot too sure how much my system weights...
06:01.23|Rremoving my home and usr/local i get 6GB but i may have stuff lying around other places
06:01.56|RGeneralAntilles : haha
06:02.13K`zan|R: Got plenty, just want to keep this separate, at least for now.  Kind of perplexing with 2008 almost here.
06:02.17GeneralAntillesEvery time you unplug it. :\
06:02.27*** join/#maemo l7 (
06:02.40|R*save energy* -- said big brother :)
06:04.27K`zanI think I'll stick with 2007 on the device for a while and work on 2008 stuff and then wipe / upgrade later....
06:05.08GeneralAntillesInstall everything 2008 ASAP
06:05.13K`zanI'd bet there is no emulator for the n800 right?
06:05.23GeneralAntillesThere's zero point in developing for 2007 right now
06:05.28GeneralAntillesits a dead end
06:05.47K`zanGeneralAntilles: That seems to be the crux of the issue, no apps for 2008 for a while so not much to do with the device running 2008 on it now?!?
06:06.01GeneralAntillesThey'll be along in the next few weeks.
06:06.07GeneralAntillesOS2008 isn't ACTUALLY out yet
06:06.14GeneralAntillesJust wait for the official release and flash then.
06:06.17K`zanYou can wipe / reinstall yes?
06:06.49K`zanOK, if I can do that, then a clean start is easy enough.
06:07.03l7hey, does anyone have an n800 with stick pixels?
06:07.06GeneralAntillesDon't do any SDK work with 2007, though.
06:07.13K`zanI am paranoid about bricking the thing, considering my current level of ignorance.
06:07.16GeneralAntillesHehe, I wouldn't be able to tell you if I did, l7
06:07.20GeneralAntillesThey're too small. ;)
06:07.38GeneralAntillesI've done more than 2 dozen flashes on 3 devices over the last 2 years
06:07.41GeneralAntillesNever once a brick
06:07.43l7K`zan: is bricking possible?
06:07.50K`zanGeneralAntilles: That is most encouraging.
06:07.51GeneralAntillesBasically, no.
06:08.06l7nokia must have some kind of unbricking procedure right?
06:08.18K`zanl7: Dunno, anything with flash should be brickable :-/.
06:08.19l7if it intended the unit to be flashed
06:08.31l7K`zan: some units have recovery modes
06:08.47K`zanl7: I sure hope I have one of those coming :-).
06:08.49l7even some psp firmwares had it, iirc
06:08.59_Monkeywell, psp is too expensive
06:09.11l7sony psp, their handheld game unit
06:09.15pupnikit is my duty as an opponent of murder and torture to say that it is important to support Ron Paul as president of the United States of America
06:09.27K`zanAh, OK, not into gaming beyond flight sims...
06:09.41GeneralAntillesSaw them out waving at traffic down in St. Pete a few weeks ago.
06:09.56K`zanrp, heh
06:10.11GeneralAntillesHow's Flight Gear's helo simulation?
06:10.15pupnikGeneralAntilles: there are about 15,000 people around the world in US dungeons without trial or due process
06:10.30GeneralAntillesThat's my favorite part of X-Plane
06:10.35GeneralAntilleswell, that, and the Stearman. :D
06:10.44K`zanGeneralAntilles: Last I looked at it, not bad, but I have heard the dev is working on it again.
06:11.05K`zanx-planes helos seen too twitchy to me...
06:11.08pupniksee... opposing genocide, is kind of a significant issue that transcends little shiny gadgets
06:11.15GeneralAntillesDrop the sensitivity by about 20%
06:11.18GeneralAntillesThen you're set.
06:11.22pupnik|R: he's a good man too
06:11.29GeneralAntillesKucinich is a joke
06:11.34K`zanHeh, that is with about 10 minutes real world time :)
06:11.46|R <- i wonder how true this table is
06:11.49*** part/#maemo [31d1] (n=[-]
06:11.54K`zanThe current crop of luser pols is the worst yet.  *MAYBE* Fred!...
06:12.12|RRon paul agains Roe v. wade? i can't support that if i understand what wikipedia implies (/me trying to be a good foreign citizen in 2 minutes ;)
06:12.20pupnikimportant to educate yourself this time around K`zan
06:12.28GeneralAntillesThe table is incredibly biased
06:12.36GeneralAntillesWhat's with checks and x's?
06:12.53l7hrm, so what sort of things would you recommend someone learn before buying an n800?
06:12.53GeneralAntillesFred Thompson is also a joke.
06:12.55K`zanpupnik: I have been doing that seriously for a good while, that is why I know all of them are pandering for power.
06:12.58l7or in the first week of ownership
06:12.58|Rthat's what i'm wondering
06:13.03pupnikK`zan: not ron
06:13.23K`zanGeneralAntilles: Perhaps so, but that, OH so sadly is the best of that luser lot.
06:13.35GeneralAntillesRon Paul is the best of the Republicans
06:13.41pupnikpick your priorities - but check out blogs,,
06:13.45GeneralAntillesThere aren't any good choices on the Democrat side.
06:13.58pupnikyou need information to make a good decision
06:14.02K`zanGeneralAntilles: Dunno, his loons have pretty much turned me off completely with him.
06:14.07pupnikwe are all above average intelligence
06:14.11GeneralAntillesforget the loons
06:14.14GeneralAntilleslook at his politics
06:14.16GeneralAntillesHe's the real deal.
06:14.24K`zanGeneralAntilles: How, that is almost all that is running :-(.
06:14.52K`zanGeneralAntilles: Bit over the edge, policies like some of his, historically have lead to BAD things...
06:14.53pupnikit is hard to change opinions in a few bytes of text
06:14.57GeneralAntillesI'm not sure why the border fence is checked under Paul in that table.
06:14.58K`zanNot all bad though.
06:15.05GeneralAntillesLike which?
06:15.12K`zanOnly one that is all bad is shrillary...
06:15.37GeneralAntillesand Giuliani
06:15.38pupnikno all are bad K'zan - the situation is bad.... the dollar is bad
06:15.45|Rwhat about net neutrality?
06:15.48GeneralAntillesWorst parts of both the left AND the right.
06:15.54K`zanI think G boy is pandering...
06:16.10K`zanBad track record in some important issues.
06:16.15GeneralAntilles"Fascist" would be the best way to describe Giuliani.
06:16.22K`zanSpots change by the audience he faces.
06:16.39pupnikneed to understand principles of liberty K`zan
06:16.48pupnikyour body belongs to you, not the government
06:16.53K`zanpupnik: you are bordering on insulting...
06:17.04K`zanI quite understand them.
06:17.11pupnikK`zan am not insulting - all the rest want to control your body
06:17.41K`zanall of them want power over, with the ***possible*** exception of Fred!  Note: possible...
06:17.44GeneralAntillesAnybody who is for more government power is bad.
06:17.51K`zanAgree with that.
06:17.55GeneralAntillesWhich is everybody but Ron Paul.
06:18.05pupnikno Ron Paul is the only one who advocates your right to rule your own life
06:18.09K`zanToo damn many pocket pickers and nannies.
06:18.38pupnikand Ron Paul is the only one who will stop the crazy US interventionism
06:18.39pupnikAnd Ron Paul is the only one who understands and obeys the US constitution
06:18.39K`zanThere are some places that NEED intervention :-)
06:18.41pupnikit's a slam dunk
06:18.45pupnikno no no
06:18.47K`zanBut I prefer nukes for that job.
06:18.57GeneralAntillesYour ass is glass!
06:19.08K`zanGeneralAntilles: Like the way you think :-).
06:19.11pupniknobody is a threat to the USA
06:19.17K`zanpupnik: bullshit.
06:19.21pupnikwho then
06:19.28K`zanFor one.
06:19.33pupnikhas china invaded ANYBODY?
06:19.37K`zanIslamoloons for another.
06:19.49pupnikis tibet the USA?
06:20.11pupnikis tibet the USA?
06:20.11K`zanOne of my fave pix:
06:20.31GeneralAntillesOh . . . that's bad.
06:20.39pupnikso you think
06:20.43pupnikthat the USA
06:20.49pupnikneeds to have troops
06:20.55pupnikin 138 countries in the world
06:20.58pupnikbecause someone
06:21.05GeneralAntillesNo, I'm agreed with pupnik here
06:21.10GeneralAntillesSolve your own damn problems
06:21.15pupnikset off a bomb
06:21.17GeneralAntillesA standing army should be maintained for national DEFENSE
06:21.20GeneralAntillesNot world policing
06:21.27K`zanNope, none anyplace, piss us off get nukes, quick and simple solution :-)
06:21.43pupnikK`zan: the usa has killed 2 million people in iraq alone
06:21.51pupnikhow many USA citizens deserve to die for that
06:22.02K`zanpupnik: Great steaming piles of Bullshit(TM).
06:22.03GeneralAntillesThe _USA_ has killed? :\
06:22.09pupnikhas killed
06:22.12pupnikthrough policy
06:22.17pupnikclinton and bush
06:22.23pupniktwo million
06:22.25K`zanpupnik: you ignorance is really sad...
06:22.33GeneralAntillesThat's a weak argument.
06:22.34pupnikhow many DEAD usa CITIZENS is justice?
06:22.43pupnikit is the cost of empire GeneralAntilles
06:22.44K`zanGonna go stall deb, that makes some sense :)
06:22.47pupnikshall we continue the empire?
06:22.59GeneralAntillesBut, still, the US should keep to itself.
06:23.02pupnikor does the USA choose to stop when it is "ahead"?
06:23.20K`zanShow me ONE place were we (USA) have built any empire...
06:23.22|Reveryone in the west should stop supporting china ...
06:23.24pupnikthis is your choice K`zan  this election cycle
06:23.35pupnikdo you want to continue this path, or end it
06:23.40GeneralAntillesPuerto Rico
06:23.44pupnikyou will not have such a choice again
06:23.54K`zanI want someone who isn't afraid to push the button :)
06:24.09GeneralAntillesI don't
06:24.12K`zanBring *everyone* home.
06:24.15_Monkeyi heard neither was n800 if you shut it down..
06:24.22GeneralAntillesI don't trust any of Russia's old garbagy doomsday devices.
06:24.34GeneralAntillesUps! Nuclear launch, guess we should launch all of ours too!
06:24.46K`zanAnd it is, but...
06:24.50|RRussia is going back to fascist state quite quickly these days too :(
06:24.58K`zanYes, so it seems.
06:25.04GeneralAntillesThe generation of communists need to die off.
06:25.10GeneralAntillesThey'll be OK after that.
06:25.11*** join/#maemo dolske (
06:25.13K`zanQuickly :)
06:25.14|Rheh i wish
06:25.24GeneralAntillesA bit like East Germany.
06:25.32*** join/#maemo ulysses (n=chatzill@
06:25.32|RCorruption, greed, power... that won't be fixed :|
06:25.35K`zanWatching Hunt for Red October :)
06:25.46K`zanToo true, greed is the worst disease
06:25.54GeneralAntillesFirst time I noticed the jittery animation.
06:26.03GeneralAntillesPixar is the best, though.
06:26.06K`zanCOFFEE, I;m freezing
06:26.19GeneralAntillesPft . . . it's 65°F
06:26.38GeneralAntillesand my G5 keeps me warm. :D
06:27.14|R-6 ? where?
06:27.22|Rfinland? :)
06:27.30kulveofc :)
06:27.57GeneralAntillesWoot off today,  folks.
06:28.10|Rdict ofc... does not compute :P
06:28.26kulve"of course"
06:28.44|Roh ;)
06:29.02|Reven wtf(1) doesn't know that (wtf is bad actually but .. :P) knows.
06:29.56l7anyone get the woot noise canceling headphones?
06:30.02|Ryeah didn't try that one :)
06:30.13|Rl7 : jawbone?
06:30.16l7i wanted to, but decided they were too bulky
06:30.22GeneralAntillesI already have a set of Bose QC2s.
06:30.24l7|R: jabra c820s
06:30.27GeneralAntillesMediocre audio
06:30.33GeneralAntillesbut very comfortable and great noise cancelling.
06:30.39l7GeneralAntilles: wow that's the same thing cnet says
06:30.43l7maybe i should believe em
06:30.51GeneralAntillesNo, don't believe them.
06:30.58GeneralAntillesMost of their reviews are garbage.
06:31.31l7yeah i'm not really sure who to believe
06:31.32GeneralAntillesI probably should've bought something else.
06:31.37GeneralAntillesBut they're nice enough
06:31.40GeneralAntillesand I was young and stupid then.
06:31.52l7buyer beware i guess
06:32.01GeneralAntillesYeah, the number of bible readers is rather disturbing.
06:32.14GeneralAntillesYou've got issues if you need a bible reader on your NIT
06:32.16l7GeneralAntilles: they're good for an airplane trip i bet
06:32.24l7the bose QC2s that is, not the bible
06:32.24|RGeneralAntilles hehe
06:32.25pupniknow is the time
06:32.27pupnikto do what we can
06:32.34GeneralAntillesHell yes, l7.
06:32.39pupniknothing is more important
06:32.56GeneralAntillesAlthough, if you can stand earbuds, I'd recommend a set of Shures
06:33.01GeneralAntillesNow THOSE sound fucking fantastic.
06:33.12l7i was considering getting the sennheiser noise canceling headphones instead for train commuting
06:33.24l7GeneralAntilles: which shures?
06:33.32|Ri have HD555 here, they're open air cans but incredible sound :)
06:33.39GeneralAntillesWhichever you can afford.
06:33.43l7the problem with the QCs or Jabras is that they're too big for daily commutes
06:33.46GeneralAntillesNone of them are bad
06:33.51GeneralAntillesbut each is better than the next. ;)
06:34.14l7GeneralAntilles: have you tried sennheiser earbuds?
06:34.26l7i'm wondering if shure > sennheiser
06:34.26GeneralAntillesBut I've listened to a lot of Shures
06:34.33GeneralAntillesFor earbuds
06:34.42l7i've heard good things about both brands
06:34.45GeneralAntillesSeinnheiser is more of an over-ear company.
06:34.54GeneralAntillesShure is strictly earbuds.
06:35.05l7ah, good to know
06:35.14l7is shure's low end stuff acceptable?
06:35.25l7|R: which one?
06:35.25_Monkeywhich one is it? :)
06:35.27|Rbt chip: 1$, microphone and plastic case from china: 1$
06:35.34GeneralAntillesTwo of my friends have the e2cs (or whatever the hell the model is)
06:35.38GeneralAntillesThey're absolutely transparent.
06:35.41l7|R: you can get bluetooth headsets cheap or free after rebate if you wait
06:35.47GeneralAntillesIt's fairly disturbing, actually.
06:36.00l7maybe around blackfriday, or check
06:36.06GeneralAntilles(The same sort of "HOLYSHIT" I got when I first listened to my Axiom bookshelves and heard the stereo imaging)
06:36.43l7wow i broke firefo
06:36.46|Ri just need something i can throw in my pocket and use for VoIP on the n8x0
06:36.50GeneralAntillesAlso, if you're in the market for good speakers, check out
06:37.07l7are they good value brand?
06:37.20GeneralAntillesAs for Bluetooth headsets: Plantronics Voyager 510
06:37.28l7i think i've heard some good things about them
06:37.30GeneralAntillesFor that price range, I wouldn't recommend anything else. ;)
06:37.39l7i got my bluetooth headset for about $10 after rebate
06:37.52GeneralAntillesThey sound better than my buddy's B&Ws at twice the price. ;)
06:38.13|Rcan they be kept in a pocket?
06:38.14l7which model?
06:38.26lcddhow is the n800's audio quality compared to standalone mp3 players?
06:38.28|Ri plan on backpacking / travelling with n8x0 devices and beat them up a bit ;)
06:38.30l7headset fis in pocket...
06:38.55GeneralAntillesThe Voyager 510 is a little ugly and a little big
06:38.56*** join/#maemo rafl (n=rafl@debian/developer/rafl)
06:39.05GeneralAntillesbut durable, stable, easy to use, with great audio.
06:39.19|Rk :)
06:39.38GeneralAntillesI want to say 700-series B&Ws, l7.
06:40.12GeneralAntillesI've got a pair of M22tis for the fronts with a matching center and surrounds
06:40.27l7how much were they?
06:40.41l7well maybe i'll get some audiophile speakers someday
06:40.49l7i've heard good things about axiom and paradigm
06:40.57GeneralAntillesI'd go with Axiom, honestly.
06:41.02|Rsome headsets have callerID and vibrate mode, that could actually replace my cell :P
06:41.04GeneralAntillesI've listened to a few Paradigm setups
06:41.07GeneralAntillesand they just don't stack up.
06:41.41GeneralAntillesI paid $400 for my fronts
06:42.29*** join/#maemo Gubbe (
06:42.49GeneralAntillesI should probably upgrade my receiver, though.
06:42.54l7hmm, not a bad price for getting started
06:43.08GeneralAntillesYou could also get the M2s for around $300
06:43.19GeneralAntillesand back them up with a stop-gap subwoofer
06:43.28*** join/#maemo bergie (
06:43.31l7wow nice
06:43.44l7maybe after i get the n800 and accessories :)
06:43.52l7so many accessories to buy...
06:44.15GeneralAntillesThankfully, they're all pretty much interchangeable with a lot of other devices.
06:44.47GeneralAntillesGet yourself an OtterBox 2000.
06:44.58GeneralAntillesNot that the thing is often going to be out of your pocket
06:45.06GeneralAntillesbut it's good for storage and moving.
06:45.42*** join/#maemo cbx33 (
06:46.37l7wow nice
06:46.45l7how well does it fit the n800?
06:46.52GeneralAntillesLike a goddamn glove
06:46.55GeneralAntillescouldn't be more perfect
06:47.03l7looks like it would be good for travel
06:47.08GeneralAntillesmight want to step up to the 300 for more accessories
06:47.13GeneralAntillesOr two 2000s
06:47.47l7hrm, which would be the best option for carrying the n800 in your backpack?
06:48.04GeneralAntillesYou do any canoeing or kayaking?
06:48.11GeneralAntillesor powerboating. ;)
06:48.17l7not really...
06:48.25l7not enough lakes around here
06:48.34l7would be fun though
06:48.35GeneralAntillesNothing but water around here.
06:48.44l7where is that?
06:48.53GeneralAntillesFlorida. :)
06:49.08GeneralAntillesThe peninsula on the peninsula at that--St. Petersburg
06:49.16l7ah nice
06:49.23GeneralAntillesLove the N800 on the water
06:49.26l7nice and warm too too
06:49.29GeneralAntillesespecially when we canoe at night
06:49.30l7did you get a clear case?
06:49.44GeneralAntillesThough I MIGHT recommend the 3600
06:49.48GeneralAntilles2600 is just a little tight.
06:50.16GeneralAntillesmaemo mapper is GREAT for seeing shoals and stuff.
06:50.33l7the 2000 is a bit cheaper...
06:50.49GeneralAntillesI'd say 2000 would be better for a backpack
06:50.56GeneralAntilles2600 leaves the screen exposed.
06:51.00captlloydAnyone regularly using their tablet on the Internet through their bluetooth phone?
06:51.11l7the 2600 has a window for the screen?
06:51.22captlloydWhat kind of plan do you have, and what does it cost?
06:51.30l7pretty good idea actually
06:51.39GeneralAntillesAT&T/Cingular MediaMAX Unlimited
06:51.42l7i guess the door on the 2000 is like a window
06:51.49GeneralAntilles3.5G on a Samsung SGH-A717
06:52.30GeneralAntillesclear plastic sort of deal
06:53.07GeneralAntillesLets you use the touchscreen
06:53.11cbx33are there any decent hard cases for the n800?
06:53.16GeneralAntillesSo it's great for waterproofing
06:53.26GeneralAntillesbut bad for bags of stuff. ;)
06:53.37l7why is it bad for the backpack?
06:53.49cbx33cos stuff will crush it
06:53.49GeneralAntillesBecause it doesn't protect the screen from bumps.
06:53.50l7the screen would stay shut i assume
06:54.11l7does the n800 bounce around inside it?
06:54.35GeneralAntillesbut stuff can bump it through the plastic
06:54.35l7ah, too bad there's no dealers nearby
06:54.47GeneralAntillesJust order it direct
06:54.47cbx33can i ask you guys if you have a bt keyboard....
06:54.50GeneralAntillesGet tho 2000
06:54.55cbx33how do you still use the n800....handheld?
06:55.01l7yeah i guess you're right
06:56.15|Rcbx33 : stowaway ultra-slim here
06:56.29cbx33got a link |R
06:57.42|Ralso cheaper when branded as dell :)
06:58.26cbx33is there a custom kernel module, or a way, to get the n800 to read usb mass storage you could like plug a pen drive into it?
06:58.35cbx33I've seen the cool usb networking howto
07:01.37captlloyd*sigh* looks like no one can get me on the Internet for less than $60/month, ATT doesn't have that same service in my area.
07:01.55cbx33where are you located captlloyd ?
07:02.05captlloydNear Iowa/Illinois Border
07:02.26GeneralAntillesIt's a non-tethering plan.
07:02.36cbx33I have a similar problem in the UK
07:03.15captlloydI was hoping to get some kind of unlimited but maybe not very fast plan for $15-20/month
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07:03.32GeneralAntillesSeems like the US providers throttle by phone
07:03.40GeneralAntillesSo it's just a matter of transfer limits
07:03.40K`zanHumm, deb4 or ubuntu for the SDK?
07:03.54cbx33K`zan, my guide uses ubuntu
07:04.00cbx33if you're using scratchbox
07:04.08K`zanGeneralAntilles: US providers throttle by wallet :)
07:04.30GeneralAntillesMeh, $20/mo for unlimited 3.5g ;)
07:04.57K`zancbx33: Err, REAL new to this, researched the various nokia tablets and settled for a n800 which should be here Friday - I'm real ignorant at this point :).
07:05.14captlloydGeneralAntilles: what's a zip code near you, I wanna see more info on the plan you have
07:05.16cbx33K`zan, ok
07:05.26l7cbx33: you can also get dell's rebranded stowaway keyboard
07:05.29cbx33who had the list of tutorials earlier?
07:05.39*** join/#maemo geaaru (
07:05.51K`zanGot deb and ubuntu CDs and was wondering which might be better, Planning on working on 2008.
07:06.09cbx33seeing as I havn't setup 2008 I can't help you
07:06.15cbx33but I did do a walk through for 2007
07:06.15l7there is a list of tutorials somewhere?
07:06.17|RScreen protectors will be the same for n810?
07:06.34l7which screen protectors did you use?
07:06.56|Ruhm, let me find the name
07:07.08K`zancbx33: Working on installing the 2008 sdk and deb is handy, so I'll go with that :-).  Thanks!
07:07.12l7ouch the ultra-slim is $150
07:07.24|Rl7: boxwave
07:07.38l7dell branded is stowaway is about $60 i think
07:07.39cbx33K`zan, go for it
07:07.40|Rultra-slim off eBay are 65
07:07.57cbx33maybe I should write an updated tutorial
07:08.06l7|R: is it legit or a knockoff?
07:08.14K`zancbx33: Deb4 installing on an 8G / 512M RAM vmware vm :) now
07:08.21|Rl7: looks legit
07:08.30|Rin box and all
07:08.31K`zan|r thanks for that link
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07:08.59|Rthere is also that one
07:09.36K`zanLike the anti glare idea...
07:09.51GeneralAntillesthe boxwave anti-glare is fantastic
07:09.53GeneralAntillesI have 3
07:09.57GeneralAntillesI highly recommend them.
07:09.58|Ri tried the shieldzone on an iAudio D2, and tried the boxWave on my n800..
07:10.10*** join/#maemo l7_ (
07:10.12|Rthey both work in the end, and they both are a pain in the ass to install correctly ;)
07:10.22GeneralAntilles. . . ugh
07:10.25K`zanPlan on installing KDE for this, any problems with that and the SDK stuff?
07:10.40|Rat least with the boxwave i didn't run out of liquid
07:10.44GeneralAntillesGet yourself a clean room to do the protector install.
07:10.45cbx33K`zan, shouldn't be
07:10.47|R(because there isn't any)
07:10.51K`zan|R: Yep, put a few on palms, hate 'em all, but...
07:10.58K`zancbx33: THank you Sir!
07:11.08l7|R: installation requires adhesive?
07:11.18l7and lots of time fixing air bubbles and dust?
07:11.38|Rshieldzone use a liquid bottle that you spray on the protector, slide it at the right place and let it dry
07:11.44|Rshieldzone has a sticky side
07:11.51|Rerr boxwave
07:12.02GeneralAntillesBoxwave isn't TOO bad
07:12.09GeneralAntillesJust have a sink nearby
07:12.12|Rl7 : i gave up the sides...
07:12.24GeneralAntillesIt's not really HARD
07:12.24|Rto clean it, again, and again, ...
07:12.29GeneralAntillesYou just have to be deliberate about it
07:12.31GeneralAntillesand patient
07:12.52|Rbut it works, in the end ;)
07:13.10GeneralAntillesSerenity now!
07:13.12GeneralAntillesINSANITY LATER!
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07:14.33|R <- never tried those though
07:14.41l7which is better, boxwave or invisible shield?
07:14.57|Rboxwave is more rigid
07:15.15K`zanArghhhh, too many choices :-)!
07:15.20|Ryeah ;)
07:15.23GeneralAntillesJust go with the Boxwave. ;)
07:15.30GeneralAntillesOrder yourself one of their cool chargers while you're at it.
07:15.31|Rall that for an overpriced, overpackaged sheet of plastic
07:15.43K`zanSeems like more what I am A) used to and B) is anti-glare...
07:15.48l7K`zan: yeah same here :\
07:15.56K`zan|R: Too true...
07:16.08GeneralAntillesHehe, it IS scratchproof. ;)
07:16.11l7so what are the major snafus with installing the shield?
07:16.17GeneralAntillesYeah, dust
07:16.24K`zanGod that could be a REAL problem here.
07:16.26GeneralAntillesDo it in a clean environment
07:16.28l7oh this is why you want the sink?
07:16.29|Rthat and bubbles
07:16.38l7i guess it's good to buy the shields and the n800 at the same time
07:16.38GeneralAntillesand keep the screen facing down while it's unprotected
07:16.40|Rand bubbles of dusts :P
07:16.45GeneralAntillesThe bubbles are easy
07:16.47GeneralAntillesIt's the dust
07:16.59K`zanComcast dirt parking lot across the street - constant dust cloud going through this place :-(
07:17.01l7so if you mess up i guess you have to rinse it off
07:17.14GeneralAntillesYeah, it's super easy to rinse
07:17.17|Rfor the 6th time!
07:17.18l7what would you use to dry it?
07:17.19|Rhaha ;)
07:17.26l7lint-free cloth?
07:17.28|Rhand shaking
07:17.30GeneralAntillesshake it gently (DON'T BEND)
07:17.31GeneralAntillesand air
07:17.39|Rcompressed air
07:17.39GeneralAntillesDon't worry about getting some water on the screen.
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07:18.10GeneralAntillesANY cloth will put more dust on it.
07:18.32l7what's the special application solution?
07:18.42GeneralAntillesBoxwave doesn't have it, so I'm not sure.
07:18.43l7maybe i'll just wear latex gloves...
07:18.46|Rclean water i guess
07:18.49l7but sometimes those have powder
07:19.38l7does the boxwave require an "application solution"?
07:19.45GeneralAntillesNo, l7
07:19.50GeneralAntillesDon't worry about the gloves
07:19.55|Ronly invisible shied, check their web site they have video explaining it
07:20.06l7i think i'd prefer the boxwave
07:20.17l7liquids and electronics = bad
07:20.27|Rthere really is no danger :)
07:20.49l7|R: so you only use invisible shield?
07:20.51|Rbut after trying both on different device... i think i'll either try a 3rd one or go with boxwave ;)
07:20.53GeneralAntillesYeah, the touchscreen is designed to get wet.
07:21.12|Rproblem with ishield is running out of water while applying it...
07:21.28|Rbut the result was nice
07:21.34|Rnice feel
07:21.44|Rso, i don't know, get 2 n800 and try both
07:21.46L0cutuson boxwave website i'm unable to find n800 device
07:21.59L0cutusfound :)
07:22.10|Rsearch -> n800 :P
07:22.11GeneralAntillesCheck out Boxwave's 2-in-1 chargers
07:22.18GeneralAntillesGREAT travel charger
07:22.44K`zanI am assuming the sdk is primarily cli driven, right?
07:22.50|Rwhat's up with these airplane chargers? i never saw a power outlet in a plane on my seat...
07:23.20|RK`zan : well beside the x11 in x11 window yes
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07:23.33l7how often does the shield need replacing?
07:23.43l7i'm wondering if the 3 pack is worth it
07:23.43GeneralAntillesYou only get those in 1st glass. ;)
07:23.48GeneralAntillesLike, never.
07:23.49|Rnever replaced one, i don't know
07:23.52|Rsold my D2 before i had to ;)
07:23.53K`zan|R: Thanks.  Still want to build up a plug in external battery pack for the n800.
07:23.57GeneralAntillesThey're scratch proof
07:24.06GeneralAntillesSo they don't mar up like the factory protector.
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07:25.23|RK`zan :
07:25.29|Reverything you need haha ;)
07:25.51GeneralAntillesWay too expensive
07:26.06|Rhehe really? ;)
07:26.37GeneralAntillesToo late.
07:26.38K`zanWow, the n800 folder I made up last night sure is growing :)
07:29.21l7man i think i'd rather pay an extra $20 for a properly installed invisible shield
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07:30.34l7how do you respray around the corners of the ipod where the ports are?
07:30.39l7i guess you can't
07:30.44K`zandeb well on the way to being installed...
07:31.09|Rl7 : uhm?
07:31.12l7GeneralAntilles: have you had to replace your boxwave?
07:31.35l7|R: i'm watching the ipod installation video:
07:31.36|Rl7 : you spray the protector, not the surface if i remember correctly (wouldn't make sense the other way around)
07:32.02l7seems like some spray might get in the ports by accident
07:32.09l7depending on how much you peel back i guess
07:32.29K`zanErr what would one need an ipod for if one had an n800?!?
07:32.37|Rit won't really mather, you'll let it dry
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07:33.36l7K`zan: the video is for an ipod
07:33.44GeneralAntillesNot a scratch on any of the 3 of mine since I installed them in the middle of the summer.
07:34.03l7GeneralAntilles: you have 3? o.O
07:34.11GeneralAntilles2 770s and an N800
07:34.14K`zanl7: the n800 does video....
07:34.28GeneralAntilles(1 770 Nov 2005 and the other from woot, and the N800 January _7th_ 2006 ;))
07:34.32|Rhahah i like the guy bashing whith his keys on the PSP
07:34.56GeneralAntillesNo, K`zan, video of the screen protector installation.
07:35.11K`zanAh, I'm SO confuzed :)
07:35.19GeneralAntillesEvidently. :P
07:35.32K`zanFreely admitted :)  I'll get better :-)
07:35.56GeneralAntillesYou better, you know we keep minimum standards for tablet users. :P
07:36.34K`zanOne would hope! ;-)
07:37.13K`zanMight get deb finished up before I fall over....
07:37.16l7K`zan: er i mean the video describes shield install :
07:37.26GeneralAntillesITT seems to be the exception to that rule, though. :\
07:37.38l7ishield marketing is getting to me...
07:37.40l7The invisibleSHIELD is the toughest, most durable gadget scratch protection film available on planet Earth. The film has its origins in the U.S. military, where it was used to protect the leading edges of helicopter blades from wear and tear while traveling hundreds of miles per hour.
07:37.41K`zanI was just wondering why one would need an ipod if one had an n800...
07:37.47GeneralAntillesThe heaping amounts of stupidity there never cease to amaze me.
07:37.51|Rsomeone on the forum says: I've since added an invisibleSHIELD screen protector. It's doing a good job at protection, but it has a grippy, rubber texture that doesn't work well with using the stylus for handwritten entry.
07:37.53l7omg it's on helicoptars!
07:37.57GeneralAntillesFor the MASSIVE storage, K`zan.
07:38.05K`zanmore than 16G ?
07:38.18K`zanOh, thats right it has a HD in it, right?
07:38.19|Ri actually liked that so called grippy texture on the D2, but that was a 2.5" screen and mostly clicks, no drag...
07:38.23GeneralAntillesiPod? 160gb. ;)
07:38.41K`zanah. OK.
07:38.45GeneralAntillesBoxwave is smooth like paper
07:38.52K`zanDamn it is installing gnome :-(
07:38.55|Rso maybe the harder boxwave is better for writing, but it's all about taste :)
07:39.15l7grippy rubber texture?
07:39.36|Ri would call it non slippery rather than grippy though
07:39.46|Rit was fun to draw on that in a paint like program..
07:39.53GeneralAntillesBut . . . but—helicopters!
07:40.00|Ri can't really complain about neither, except for installation of both ;)
07:40.01l7i wish nokia would just pick one set of accessories and sell them to me
07:40.05K`zanleading edged take some abuse...
07:40.08l7or install them for me :)
07:40.32l7K`zan: i know, helicoptar blades!  it must be strong!
07:40.56l7nevermind that i have no plans for using my n800 as a helicopter blade...
07:41.13K`zanGood idea LOL!
07:41.15GeneralAntillesOK: i-blue 737, iGo/ThinkOutside Stowaway, 2x 8GB Transcend class6, and a Boxwave anti-glare.
07:41.32l7Our proprietary film is a clear, urethane plastic (invisible, invincible) with unique properties that allow it to provide self-healing qualities and unparalleled abrasion resistance.
07:41.32|R <- 4th option! ;)
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07:41.46l7argh, more options
07:41.48l7more data
07:41.56l7i guess it's good...
07:42.05K`zanWhen Y'all figure out the perfect one, let me know - my brain hurts already.
07:42.05l7this is why people like apple sometimes
07:42.08l7less stuff to figure out
07:42.10|R <- cheap crap?
07:42.29GeneralAntillesPft . . . I like Apple because they have a kickass OS and great hardware. ;)
07:43.12l7l Easy Removal – The PET is easily removed by releasing the air vacuum which can be done by 1) using a piece of strong adhesive to lift one of the corners or 2) by sliding a thin piece of plastic polymer between the PET and the device (remember that there is only an air vacuum and NO ADHESIVE, thus there always a micro gap between the PET and the surface)
07:43.27l7well that too
07:43.36l7beautiful and overpriced hardware
07:43.43l7but worth it i guess
07:43.51GeneralAntillesNot for OEM stuff
07:43.58GeneralAntillesprice it part for part to a Dell
07:44.15l7they sell your "user experience" :)
07:44.16K`zanStarting to think the n800 is going to be the cheapest of what I want for it :)
07:44.18GeneralAntillesand you don't get the case ergonomics with the Dell. ;)
07:44.41l7GeneralAntilles: depends on when you buy the dell
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07:45.04l7if you time it to when dell has a their nutty clearance sales, they are pretty cheap
07:45.08l7but dells are clunky
07:45.10K`zanHeh, cheer up, it will get worse :)
07:45.35GeneralAntillesI notice LCDs are shipping at the "stupid bright" setting from factory these days.
07:45.50GeneralAntillesI've date to cut all my new ones down 50% for them to match up to the rest.
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07:45.51|Ryeah, but i got it on custom with 0 everywhere haha
07:46.11GeneralAntillesI wish the N800 backlight would go a few steps darker
07:46.20GeneralAntillesstill too bright with FBReader at night even at the lowest setting.
07:46.40K`zanGeneralAntilles: Same problem with the Z31, I use it for a flashlight at night...
07:46.41|Ractually the darkest step before pitch black in unusable as it flickers...
07:46.51GeneralAntillesWell that's lame.
07:47.12GeneralAntillesWares mah infinite voltage scaling?!
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07:48.10l7the backlight should get dimmer with time perhaps
07:48.16l7unless it gets flickery first
07:48.32K`zanGeneralAntilles: Watch it, i R an ingineer!
07:48.47GeneralAntillesDo better next time!
07:48.50K`zanOhhh, more MORE!
07:48.57l7 <- why would you want 15 screen guards?
07:49.18|Rl7 : cause they're crap
07:49.18GeneralAntillesBecause they're garbage
07:49.20K`zanDunno, I still have all but 2 of the ones I got for the palm (screwed up the first one).
07:49.26GeneralAntillesand need to be replaced every month
07:49.31l75 choices?
07:49.40GeneralAntillesThey're basically the same as the ones that ship with the N800.
07:49.51GeneralAntillesone that ships*
07:49.54l7those are bad eh?
07:50.45GeneralAntillesThey protect the screen
07:50.45|Rmight as well get some selofan
07:50.45GeneralAntillesI used my factory protector for 6 months
07:50.45l7i sense a "but" coming...
07:50.45GeneralAntillesIt was scratched all to hell by the end of it
07:50.45GeneralAntillesbut plenty usable
07:50.45L0cutusseems bluetooth headset doesn't work with os2008 :-\
07:50.46GeneralAntillesIt's not a final release.
07:50.50l7oh, so the factory protector is scratchable...
07:50.51|RL0cutus : !?
07:50.55GeneralAntillesThoughtfix had it working fine with his.
07:51.01l7as long as your screen is ok
07:51.01GeneralAntillesSo it's got to be an N810/N800 trouble.
07:51.10GeneralAntillesYeah, it protects the screen fine.
07:51.19GeneralAntillesSo just leave it on until you can replace it with something nice.
07:51.35GeneralAntillesMy screen came out from under it pristine after 6 months of heavy usage.
07:51.49L0cutus|R: yes unfortunately, it pair with headset and speackers audio is muted, but no audio on headset
07:52.10l7maybe i'll just go with the boxwave
07:52.11|Rwhich headset?
07:52.20l7choice number 3: looks neat though
07:52.20L0cutusnokia hs-11w
07:52.27l7it promises easy removal
07:52.31GeneralAntillesLike I said, we're on pre-release stuff not intended for this hardware
07:52.35l7but... maybe this means it'll fall off
07:52.47GeneralAntillesSounds like it.
07:53.14|Rl7 : uhm, they're all easy to remove
07:53.38GeneralAntillesGo into a drafty room and your screen proctor flies away.
07:53.41GeneralAntillesSounds bad to me. :P
07:53.53GeneralAntillesproctor . . .
07:53.57GeneralAntillesI'm getting loopy
07:53.59GeneralAntillestime for bed
07:54.01GeneralAntilles'night folks.
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07:54.05L0cutusnight :)
07:54.16L0cutus(here 9AM :)
07:54.21|R2:54 :|
07:54.29|Ri hate having to leave ;)
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07:56.28l7silicone case for n800
07:56.45l7i've noticed silicone cases sometimes have a nasty toxic smell though
07:57.10|R <- i wish more headset would have these features CID, vibrate... we need a jawbone style mixed with this in a small form factor so i can cut my cell contract ;)
07:57.42|Rl7 : and they gather dust like crazy
07:58.31|Rmost cases loose the kick stand, which sucks :|
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08:02.20l7|R: proporta case fixes this by giving you a leather kickstand
08:02.20l7but it seems to fail a lot
08:02.20l7so what is the bes case?
08:02.21|Ri don't know, i kept the original one...
08:02.21|Rthe nokia one seemed nice
08:02.21|Rbut pricey
08:02.21l7pdair one has a belt clip option for $6 more
08:02.21l7if you want to look uber geeky
08:02.21|Rhehe no thanks ;)
08:04.10|Ri don't see a point for cases that don't cover the screen, even softly... it's not like my device is going to catch cold ;)
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08:08.28l7the clear otterbox is looking like a good choice
08:08.35l7clear cases are cool :)
08:08.53|Rbulky though, i need to have it in a pocket
08:09.01l7ah and it's waterproof too, for coffeeshops :)
08:09.09|RThe whole idea of the n800 was to not have a backpack, else i'd get a laptop
08:09.21l7hrm i have to carry a backpack anyway
08:09.28l7but it should weigh less
08:09.47l7i guess the otterbox must be the only waterproof one so far
08:10.02|Rget a ziplock hehe :)
08:10.09|Rok i really need to get to bed
08:10.29l7heh ok
08:10.34l7i should hit the sack too
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08:20.54L0cutusi'v buy this:
08:21.25l7only thing about the otterbox is that you can't plug your headphones in
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08:25.08l7something like this would be nice:
08:26.47L0cutusanother bug on os2008
08:27.03czrI am not a bug.
08:27.17czrat least I think I'm not. can't be certain of course.
08:27.42L0cutuson os2007 while i write with my bt keyboard the screen backlight is alwayn on
08:27.53L0cutuson os2008 it switch off every rime...
08:27.59L0cutusrime = time
08:28.12L0cutusalso while writing
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08:49.50JaffaMorning, all
08:53.34Andy80hi all :)
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09:10.36K`zanNight folks and thanks for all the help and ignorance dispersement :-)
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09:23.45czrmhm. maybe one should write a small applet that could keep the backlight on/off easily
09:24.01czrseems that so many people actually want the feature it seems silly that it doesn't already exist
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09:45.15AD-N770bon dia / good morning
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09:46.27L0cutusmmm no e2fsprogs for os2008
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09:59.50mk8Hi to all ... :)
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10:35.49workingplayyawhat is the name of the zoom widget in the image viewer?
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10:47.52Sho_Hm, do the panel menus always open in big mode in 2008?
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11:03.23rothielHi guys :)
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11:06.23gratz|workWhere are environment variables located in maemo 3.x?
11:16.43maddlermorning all...
11:16.59maddlerL0cutus: goodmorning... ;)
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11:28.05b0unc3maddler: buongiorno :)
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11:38.59cosmovisy: advertise it here also.. you'll get plenty of testers
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11:42.12bedboihi there.
11:42.16bedboiany news?
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11:51.05alteregoHmm .. I should figure out how to throw ruby-maemo into extras devel now ..
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11:56.07alteregodput isn't in scratchbox?
11:59.22L0cutus[12:16] <maddler> L0cutus: goodmorning... ;)
11:59.23L0cutusue' :)
12:00.03L0cutusalterego: i've see your latest creation, ruby-maemo for os2008 on
12:00.36alteregoL0cutus, yup :)
12:00.38L0cutusso finnaly you have won :D
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12:03.28hmachtanyone able to tell me how to add OS2008 and OS2006 categories in the application catalogue on to an application?
12:04.30alteregohmacht, you have to go to the relavant OS download section and create a new package in there.
12:04.47hmachta complete new package, really?
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12:05.05hmachtduplicating description, etc.?
12:05.10alteregoIt's exactly the same process as defining a download in 2007, you just have to do it in 2008 and 2006
12:05.39L0cutusalterego: your 'click to install' doesn't work...
12:05.49L0cutusError 404
12:06.11alteregoYeah I know.
12:06.15alteregoThat'll be sorted soon.
12:06.55L0cutusa ok
12:07.06L0cutusgo to download directly :)
12:09.11alteregoAs soon as I figure out how to use dput and the extras-devel repository.
12:09.33alteregoThen I wont need to store the packages on my server :)
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12:11.49alteregoHmm .. Dunno what happened there. My desktop just vanished and then prompted me to log in again :/
12:12.42solmumahacrash perhaps? ;)
12:12.59alteregoYeah, probably.
12:13.13solmumahaapplet support?
12:13.29alteregoAnyone know of a good resource on dput? Maybe a wiki entry for maemo extras-devel uploading? :D
12:13.42lardmanwumpus: make any progress with pvr.ko?
12:15.00wumpusnot really, I was trying to find out how it detects that the hardware is present, but as I know nothing of the N800 internal bus.. well, I got sleepy :)
12:16.07lardmanI don't blame you :)
12:16.17lardmanwhat's the entry point for kernel modules?
12:16.41lardmaneach function was reasonable small, it ought to be possible with some graft to work it out
12:16.43wumpushm, cleanup is the exit point, the entry point was just above that
12:17.06L0cutuswe also need an application that show upload/download speed :)
12:17.13wumpusindeed, the module wasn't that big
12:17.15fysathat table needs to be deinterlaced.
12:17.38wumpusbut a some functions are also not called, which is strange
12:17.59alteregoThere should really be a wiki search on
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12:19.30lardmanyou did a function call analysis?
12:19.34lardmanor by eye?
12:20.59bedboi"To flash the bootloader, you have to supply the X-Loader image" i get this if i try to reflash with flash-3.0
12:21.06bedboibtw i have the bootloader for dual-boot
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12:21.58lardmanwumpus: VirtualMemoryInit & PVRMMapInit & SysInitialise
12:22.59Komposilly question: should the svn username be the same as garage username?
12:23.04lardmanwumpus: VirtualMemoryInit doens't do much
12:23.17wumpuswell just by searching for function names in the module, I didn't do anything complicated
12:23.23wumpusidd, a lot of the functions just return
12:23.26bedboiany hints on that issue?
12:23.37bedboihow you reflash when you have the dual-boot bootloader?
12:23.38wumpusis it really a working driver?
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12:24.08lardmanwumpus: that I don't know - need to find someone with one of the dev boards who's tried it
12:24.54wumpuscould also be that there is just very little virtual memory to initialise on ARM
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12:26.07lardmanSysInitialise is the function that does the finding and init of the device I think
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12:29.14alteregoI have _no_idea_ what I'm doing ..
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12:30.00workingplayyawhich widget is used in the brightness applet ?
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12:33.17L0cutusis possible to set a password for the user 'user' ?
12:33.34alteregoIs this for SSH L0cutus0?
12:33.41alteregoUse a key
12:34.00L0cutusfor the user root i've set also a pwd
12:34.34alteregoYeah, I set a root password too. But I use key authentication mostly.
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12:39.49czrhmm. it's possible to set password for user
12:39.55czrfor ssh
12:40.09alteregoManually edit /etc/passwd?
12:40.24czrI just used passwd user :-)
12:40.31alteregoDoesn't work.
12:40.37czr(on 2008 mind you, with openssh-server)
12:40.48alteregoMaybe it does on that.
12:40.49czrr&d-mode enabled.
12:41.00alteregoHave you been a naughty boy czr?
12:41.01lardmanwumpus: in PVRSRVInitialiseDevice, for example, it just seems to loop around setting values, but nothing else
12:41.07czralterego, how?
12:41.16wumpuslardman: yup, I see hardware access or detection nowhere
12:41.20alteregoDownloading OS2008 :P
12:41.26czralterego, I didn't download it.
12:41.26derfIt worked for me on 2006, much less on 2007.
12:41.45lardmanwumpus: can it be done by mapping the physical powervr memory into the kernel address space then writing to it?
12:42.22czralterego, I got both of them on a cd (one for n800, the other for n810)
12:42.31wumpusyes, that's usually how graphics drivers work, they map the card registers and frame buffer to memory
12:42.37alteregoczr, nice.
12:42.52wumpusthen pass on those mappings via mmap() to user space of some device node
12:42.54alteregoI forgot you do work for Noke
12:43.04czrI don't work for them alterego
12:43.10lardmanwumpus: well it looks as though there's some memory mapping going on in the kernel, and a slab is allocated to allow outside access in /dev
12:43.12alteregoYes not _for_ them :P
12:43.12czrwumpus, /dev/mem is pretty good for that
12:43.45czrwumpus, or /sys/bus/pci-thingies nowadays
12:43.49wumpusczr: well, then you can only run X as root
12:44.09lardmanczr: why pci?
12:44.22czrlardman, out of context of ITs now.
12:44.26wumpusthe n800 doesn't have pci
12:44.26lardmanah, ok
12:45.08wumpusbut it seems to do that? that'd good I suppose
12:45.11czrwumpus, but /dev/mem is also protected so that only root can access it. what else do you propose to use?
12:45.50lardmanare there any asm->c tools about for intel syntax?
12:46.10czrasm 2 C translators? eww :-)
12:46.21alteregoYeah .. That doesn't sound good ..
12:46.22wumpusczr: well, for example the nvidia device driver allows mmap() on the /dev/nvidiaX devices to map registers and agp locked memory, but only for memory areas that are part of the client context
12:46.39czrwumpus, ah. I thought you had something more generic in mind
12:46.53czryup. obviously drivers may implement policy decisions as well if they want to
12:46.55lardmanczr: would make comprehension easier
12:47.10czrlardman, I don't know of any
12:47.30czrbut why intel syntax?
12:47.45czrah. you have asm source listings in intel syntax, right?
12:48.28lardmanarm is always in intel syntax
12:48.29alteregoYeah, I've never even heard of ASM->C translations.
12:48.40wumpusme neither
12:48.41alteregoIt doesn't seem that possible to me ..
12:48.46czrit's possible
12:48.53lardmanah well, little matlab project for the weekend :)
12:48.55czrnot perfect, but certainly possible
12:49.01wumpusyou can map assembly to a kind of c-like syntax though
12:49.06wumpusespecially arm assembly
12:49.07czrconverting hand-written asm into C is pretty difficult
12:49.16czrconverting asm generated by a c compiler back to C is easier
12:49.16lardmanwumpus: how?
12:49.32alteregoProvided you know what C compiler was used.
12:49.41czrthat can be easily detected actually
12:49.42lardmanit's just to get rid of the many many branches and turn them back into loops really
12:49.45czrbut yes, it helps.
12:49.49alteregoWhich I suppose wouldn't be that hard to check.
12:49.56wumpusyeah, I'm not in the (de)compiler business, tried to write something like that some time ago when I was reverse engineering phones, but never finished it
12:49.57lardmangcc 3.4.4
12:50.46wumpusthe idea is that you can combine register assignments into (sub)expressions again
12:50.49czrI wrote a pseudocoder for 16-bit intel stuff some years back
12:50.56czrbut it never tried to represent stuff in C
12:51.07lardmanpseudo code is good enough
12:51.29wumpusthe output won't really be compilable C that results in the same assembly again, but idd some pseudocode
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12:51.34lardmanit's time consuming having to turn each fn into pseudo code by hand
12:51.43wumpusit would be easier to read than assembly
12:52.05czrwumpus, I don't there are any good reasons for it to be compilable back :-)
12:52.05wumpusthen again, is it needed to understand it all?
12:52.09alteregoWhat are you actually looking for?
12:52.17czrI don't think even.
12:52.17alteregoYeah, exactly.
12:52.41lardmanno, no need to compile it back, just interestd to see how it works
12:52.54wumpuswell we have some random kernel module for the MBX graphics hardware that should also be in the N800
12:53.04alteregoYou're looking at the imgtec binary drivers?
12:53.12wumpusbut we can't get it to load for the kernel, and we're trying to find what is wrong
12:53.33alteregoIs it a 2.6 kernel module?
12:53.41lardmanyes, 2.6.10
12:53.55wumpusbut it needs some pci symbols for some reason we're not yet sure
12:54.06alteregoLook at the 2.4 source
12:54.14lardmanis there source?
12:54.20lardmanthere's a binary for sure
12:54.21alteregoNot complete source.
12:54.29alteregoBut there are parts.
12:54.31lardmanoh, where's that from then?
12:54.36wumpusafaik there's only a binary
12:54.59alteregoIt's i386 too ..
12:55.11wumpusso kind of useless in this case :/
12:55.14lardmanthat's something different - kyro
12:55.18alteregoWell yes and no.
12:55.39alteregoThere are shared libraries that might give a better look into it.
12:55.40wumpuswe need to know how the device is addressed on non-pci arm OMAP architectures
12:56.13wumpuson intel it's way different, a device driver can just query the pci bus to find mmio and io areas
12:56.15lardmanor indeed how any device on the omap is addressed for that matter
12:56.24alteregoIt should be mapped to a range in memory.
12:56.35wumpusand interupts and dma channels for that matter..
12:56.38alteregoAs is all hardware in ARM :P
12:56.53wumpusyeah, but how to find where
12:57.10alteregogrep /dev/mem for the serial? ^_^
12:57.23lardmanwe can look at where the driver uses the memory
12:57.34lardmanif that's the way it works, that's good
12:57.38wumpusmaybe there are memory addresses hardcoded in the driver
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12:58.00czrit might also be a board decision
12:58.10czrso indeed, it could be hard-wired
12:58.11alteregoActually it'll be TI
12:58.16wumpusI don't think so.. it's integrated in the CPU
12:58.21wumpusnot the board right?
12:58.24lardmanbut it will be hardwired to some address presumably
12:58.24czrah. then core decision
12:58.44alteregoSo the driver for whatever you're looking at may not even work :P
12:58.47czralthough, one could assume that it is disabled at some level at least to conserve power?
12:58.56czrso you'd need to find the power management bits to enable it? not?
12:59.08alteregoYes. There will probably be a GPIO to enable/disable it.
12:59.13wumpusczr: you'd assume the driver does that
12:59.24wumpusor the GL lib for that matter
12:59.26czrhmm. maybe
12:59.37czralthough it might be again a design decision
12:59.42lardmanyes, there are power management functions in the driver
12:59.42alteregoBig maybe ..
12:59.48wumpusyes it might it might
12:59.52wumpuswe're just trying
12:59.56czrgood luck :-)
13:00.16alteregoYeah, it is kyro
13:00.18lardmanhow does a gpio appear in asm?
13:00.25alteregoI don't know :)
13:00.30wumpusI have no idea
13:00.36wumpusI think through a kernel function
13:00.37czrwriting/reading from a memory address?
13:00.38lardmanand in c?
13:00.48alteregoIt's a bit switch
13:00.50lardmanczr: yeah, I was wondering that
13:00.58alteregoIn C it's a kernel call
13:01.06czralterego, sure, but it could be represented as a 32-bit memory access operation
13:01.17alteregoczr, yeah
13:01.24czrsince address space is plentiful (not like in 8/16-bit envs)
13:01.25alteregoProbably associated with some bitmask though :)
13:01.31lardmaneasy enough to find a kernel driver that uses gpios and look at what it does
13:01.32czrdoesn't have to be
13:01.53alteregoYeah, there's plenty of GPIO code laying around.
13:01.57lardmanwell that's good, the driver appears to do nothing other than mapping and writing to memory
13:02.01czrif I'd be the hw designer, I'd just map 32-bit mem access for each GPIO separately. that way no masking needs to be done
13:02.13lardmannow one just needs to work out what the addresses are
13:02.33alteregoczr, you could make it byte addresses
13:02.34Mikhocould any of you hackers think of any reasons where the linker would spawn 'undefined reference to XX' errors when using static libraries in C programs, when the library is properly added with -l command, and the the library contains the required symbols (they can be found from nm output)?
13:02.39czralterego, why bother?
13:02.39alteregoSave some address space ..
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13:02.47czralterego, the addr space is plentiful :-)
13:02.55alteregoSure, I just think the smaller the better :P
13:02.59czrand it's not likely that you'll have millions of gpios
13:03.02czrnot in this case
13:03.13alteregoNo, I've not seen a device with more than 255
13:03.53alteregoczr, do you know much about dput?
13:04.01alteregoI want to upload ruby-maemo to extras-devel ^_^
13:04.08czralterego, neverheard
13:04.25lardmanwumpus: this means that most of the functionality is probably in the opengl implementation
13:04.25alteregoIt's the .deb repository submission script.
13:04.28wumpusMikho: the order of -l statements matters with static libs
13:04.36wumpuslardman: yes, that's no surprise
13:04.48TakMikho: also, did you pass '-static' ?
13:04.49alteregoDoes GL ES specify hardware API?
13:04.55czralterego, no
13:05.02wumpusnot really
13:05.03Mikhohow does the order matter, and what does -static do?
13:05.08alteregoHmm .. Wouldn't have thought so.
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13:05.12wumpusbut once you get the device to map we can see about that step
13:05.33wumpusit might be we can just use the binary gl driver
13:05.33qoshey guys... is there X running on the N800?
13:05.35czralterego, it defines some minimum capabilities (and boy do they mean minimal) and then how to query for extensions and such. nothing about hw.
13:05.38alteregoSo are you guys giving up on Nokia ever releasing a driver? :)
13:05.39wumpusqos: yes
13:05.41lardmanI'll have a sit down and translate the asm into pseudo code
13:05.58wumpusalterego: we just don't like to wait indefinitly and kept in the dark
13:06.05lardmanwumpus: wrong libc, probably wrong abi, etc
13:06.09alteregoSure, I can sympathise with that.
13:06.10wumpuslardman: all true
13:06.38lardmancould intercept the calls quite easily though by inserting a kernel driver to produce the /dev entry
13:06.50alteregoI just don't see us waiting more than a few months.
13:06.51wumpusalso it's just curiousity as to what 3d capability is sitting unused in the n8800
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13:07.07alteregowumpus, a great 3D capability.
13:07.10lardmanalterego: it'll keep us busy ;)
13:07.13*** part/#maemo ttmrichter (n=ttmricht@
13:07.16alteregoCapable of quite a few million polygons :)
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13:07.26wumpusalterego: you really think nokia will release drivers for it?
13:07.27lardmanalterego: why do you say that? DO you know something?
13:07.33alteregowumpus, I'm 80% certain
13:08.00alteregoI know that "no comment" is not an answer.
13:08.32wumpusno, it isn't, just knowing that nokia is working on a driver would be great
13:09.33Takhooray! @ new 2007HE release
13:09.56dpb_There's a new one again?
13:10.09wumpus3d support is really the only thing I'm still missing
13:10.12lardmanalterego: who do you work for? anything Nokia related?
13:10.18czrthey fixed the initfs thingy dpb_
13:10.24alteregolardman, nope.
13:11.07czr(they put an older version of it into the previous release)
13:11.07wumpusapart from that the n800 is a great gadget
13:11.08alteregolardman, I've got a good sense of the future :P
13:11.22alteregoI can usually smell things like this.
13:11.48wumpusbut nokia is not lazy, on one hand I'd think if they could release a 3d driver they would have a long time ago
13:11.54alteregoThat might be my curry from last night ..
13:11.55qoscan somebody take a look at this error? my scratchbox fools me when i try to compile qt-x11-opensource-src-4.3.2
13:12.14czrnothing in maemo/hildon suggests that they've throught about having open gl es on the device at any point.
13:12.15wumpusit'd be also great for them to put 3-D in the ads
13:12.19alteregowumpus, sure but there was a point I think they were expecting imgtec to get them a 2.6 driver.
13:12.29alteregoimgtec aren't creating a 2.6 driver ..
13:12.32czrand no, I don't know any secrets. just stating what anyone can see
13:12.46lardmanalterego: but a 2.6 driver exists
13:12.48czrthought even.
13:12.49alteregoczr, cairo? :)
13:12.56wumpusyes, we have a 2.6.10 driver
13:13.01czralterego, cairo has _zero_ to do with ES
13:13.08alteregoAnd who created that driver?
13:13.09suihkulokkiqos: create a smaller testcase and file to maemo bugzilla
13:13.14czrcairo is there because of the GTK+ version bump and merge
13:13.14wumpuscairo is xrender based, not gl based
13:13.32alteregowumpus, cairo can use GL as a backend.
13:13.36wumpusxrender accelerating is a whole different animal
13:13.37alteregoIt would improve performance.
13:13.38lardmanit depends who has access to the ip for the powervr core
13:14.01czrlardman, anyone who pays enough money and signs enough number of NDAs
13:14.04alteregoYou'd think with the ammount of business TI get from Nokia that they'd be a bit nicer.
13:14.12wumpusthere is a gl backend for cairo (glitz) but it's hardly ever used, and certainly not by gtk
13:14.16alteregoThey have drivers for symbian. But we get left out in the cold.
13:14.45czrand ES is not really meant to accelerate non 3D
13:14.52czrthere's OpenV something which I forget
13:14.57alteregoSure .. I'm just guessing.
13:15.05czrwhich would be suited much better to cairo
13:15.11czralthough cairo rendering model is slightly problematic too
13:15.14wumpuswell the biggest technical problem is the link to the lcd
13:15.18alteregoGL would improve the GPS software no end ..
13:15.37czrdepends on how both are implemented
13:15.37wumpusit's slow, and for full screen 3-D rendering you need to send the whole frame at full resolution each time
13:15.44alteregoWe could properly compete with Android.
13:15.48czrusing opengl for small contexts would not necessarily be any faster
13:15.53alteregoAnd their fancy three D eye-candy.
13:16.31suihkulokkithe magical 3d driver that will fix all problems!
13:16.48wumpuswell, it will make the device more attractive
13:16.51alteregoWell, maybe that is why we don't have drivers.
13:16.55czrsuihkulokki, you mean OpenGL ES? ;-)
13:16.57alteregoBecause of the display bandwidth issue.
13:17.15czrobviously 3D is the solution to all problems.
13:17.21wumpuswell, the screen update might be slow, but we could still use the pixel doubling in lower resolution
13:17.24alteregoMaybe Nokia don't want to give us something that wont work well at all.
13:17.39wumpusthat'd be ok for games
13:17.47alteregoBut hopefully the next platform will have these issues fixed :)
13:18.09wumpusthey can do video in realtime
13:18.09lardmanthe display bandwidth shouldn't make any odds should it?
13:18.30lardmansurely the advantage of the 3d hardware is in the manipulation, then the screen updates can still be as slow as usual
13:18.49alteregoAs long as you can get ~24fps I wouldn't care :)
13:18.56wumpusand I'd settle with a lower resolution as well
13:19.04czrwumpus, 1x1
13:19.13Tak...and pixel doubling lives on...
13:19.14czrhey, if you settle for 0x0, I can provide you with 3D today!
13:19.24lardmanhow often does the symbian driver model change?
13:19.33wumpuswell I'm sure I can run mesa on 1x1 on the device :P
13:19.33alteregolardman, not very often at all.
13:19.38lardmanif it's not often, that may be why Ti provide that
13:19.40alteregoIt's pretty mature.
13:20.00czrwumpus, with 0x0 you might even get a decent framerate too :-)
13:20.06lardmanI'm assuming Ti do provide it and it's not Nokia themselves that is
13:20.07gla55_lardman: i'd imagien it having changed with symbian 9
13:20.23lardmangla55_: but not every 10 minutes like the Linux kernel ;)
13:20.31wumpusif an infinite framerate can be considered decent, yeah
13:20.35gla55_i'd be more inclined to assume that nokia/symbian did the most of the work of opengl es hw accelerated for symbian
13:20.51wumpuswell, opengl es is opengl es
13:20.54gla55_or at least paid for it
13:20.56wumpusplatform really doesn't come into it
13:21.02lardmanand Nokia don't have enough people to do this for Limux themselves?
13:21.15lardmanthat may be a reason
13:21.16gla55_lardman: nokia buys a lot of even symbian stuff from outside
13:21.28gla55_they probably don't have the folks in-house
13:21.36lardmanoh, no reason not to do so with Linux then
13:21.41lardmanczr: oops
13:21.42czrlimu = sodapop in finnish slang
13:21.45gla55_well budgets are always a reason
13:21.49czrlardman, neh, it was funny :-)
13:21.50lardmanczr: cool
13:21.58gla55_and internal powerplays and shit like that
13:22.29czrlardman, one could port it on top of symbian and get Slimux :-)
13:22.33lardmangla55_: yes, that's my understanding of what's happening around the powervr on the n800, from some daniels made
13:22.43wumpusby the time we're at N900 we don't need opengl es anymore, it's fast enough to support full blown gl :P
13:23.20alteregoczr, that sounds dirty :P
13:24.46czrhmm. my n810 just reset itself
13:25.06czr(has been sitting there for 12 hours without me doing anything with it, and then just bling)
13:25.09timo___it's an optimization
13:25.10alteregoIt could have the viruz!
13:25.15czrtimo___, heh
13:25.19timo___you would have reset it eventually anyway
13:25.25czrnah, I'm pretty sure timo is right
13:25.25gla55_quick call fsecure
13:25.26lardmandsp crash
13:25.41alteregoWell, my tablet hasn't ever reset itself.
13:25.44czrlardman, no audio/video was happening on the device.
13:25.45timo___it's the reset-ahead functionality
13:25.55czrtimo___, second generation read-ahead?
13:26.13wumpusa very advanced form of branch prediction
13:26.17wumpusit now predicts user actions too
13:26.21alteregoOh, the new Kernel 2.7 pre-emptive reset-ahead feature.
13:26.24alteregoThat's cool.
13:26.37czrwumpus, :-)
13:26.46czrmust be the new instruction extensions which come with LEGv1
13:26.59czr"yes, we now also provide LEGs that go with the ARMs"
13:27.33alteregoHas anyone here uploaded to extras-devel yet?
13:27.37timo___"it comes apart easily"
13:27.56alteregoIs that StrongLEG?
13:28.00czr"The new instructions include important optimizations like: creating a turtle on the screen, moving the turtle and finalizing leaks that the turtle might leave on the screen"
13:28.11czralterego, that's the intel version. they'll be using small puppies.
13:28.21alteregoczr, that'd be the X-Leg
13:28.43czrtimo___, that's why they ship glue with each device ;-)
13:29.08czrGLUE: this instructions is necessary at variable points in the instruction stream to "optimize CPU coherency".
13:29.12czrinstruction even.
13:29.21timo___czr: are you at ruoholahti?
13:29.28czrNot using GLUE once a while might lead to additional device instability.
13:29.35czrtimo___, nope, in hakaniemi (home)
13:29.46czrI can swing by ruohis if necessary though
13:29.48timo___czr: ok.. there would have been one piece of cake left at the movial office :)
13:30.02czrah. damn. I can have the cake but not eat it?
13:30.07timo___don't bother, it will probably soon be gone
13:30.15czror. since I'm here and the cake there, I can not have the cake but I can eat it, right? :-)
13:30.35timo___makes as much sense as reset-ahead
13:30.45timo___oh ,yeah, i can dcc it
13:31.12*** join/#maemo Iso_ (n=martin@
13:31.18timo___but that would make my keyboard sticky
13:31.35timo___if i try to squeeze it by the key caps
13:31.59czror rub it around your TFT screen
13:32.25wumpusI'd like dcc-coffee support
13:32.30Iso_Could someone help me getting network access working for maemo-mapper inside scratchbox?
13:33.21timo___we have a coffee web cam now
13:33.35czrdoes it detect and send d-bus signals when pot is ready?
13:33.43timo___not yet
13:33.46suihkulokkidon't give them ideas
13:33.56czrI always wanted one that did
13:34.01czrwell, maybe not with d-bus, but something
13:34.03timo___it was sponsored by opened hand for a while
13:34.06czrelectric shocks from mouse or smt
13:34.19timo___whigh reminds me, i have to send a bill to mallum
13:34.47timo___i found an opened hand sticker and propped it up so that it appeared at the corner of the picture
13:34.53czrI wonder why the device crashed though.
13:35.25wumpusyeah it's weird, usually has to do with the watchdog
13:35.44timo___disable the watchdog :)
13:35.47czrbut the device has been sitting there idling for ages
13:36.02*** join/#maemo unit42 (
13:36.02TakIso_: check resolv.conf and nsswitch.conf
13:36.11alteregoczr, it probably got bored.
13:36.12czrbtw, the sticker conveniently covers the screen area of n810 too
13:36.32Iso_Tak: what do I need to do to them? apt-get and wget work, so name resolution is working from a shell...
13:36.53rothielIs someone using the garnet vm ? :p
13:37.05Takhmm - then there's no reason mmapper shouldn't work afaik
13:39.06Iso_:-( And yet it doesn't...
13:39.19JaffaWell, it's mid-November ;-)
13:39.23Iso_I have the same problem with the app installer, which can't connect to the net.
13:40.53Iso_Ah, actually, updating my /etc/resolv.conf fixes the app installer! But Maemo-mapper still just sits there doing nothing...
13:52.16*** join/#maemo MagicFab (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab)
13:56.11*** join/#maemo sciboy (n=sciboy@unaffiliated/sciboy)
13:56.34*** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@
13:56.40alteregoThis would have taken less time for me if I'd just setup my own debian repository O_O
13:57.42*** join/#maemo red-zack (
14:05.14Takalterego: what's the problem?
14:06.18alteregoUploading to extras-devel
14:06.24alteregoCan't seem to sign my packages.
14:07.24Takyou're not trying to sign them inside scratchbox, are you?
14:08.46alteregoI have the debs
14:08.50alteregoand the .changes files.
14:09.39Takdebsign -kNNNNNNNN blah.dsc ?
14:09.45alteregoI then use debsign to sign the .changes file. And it throws out: "clearsign failed: secret key not available"
14:10.06Takhmm - does the correct key show up in gpg --list-keys ?
14:10.25alteregoI've only got one key :)
14:10.38alteregoWell .. pup and sub
14:11.28alteregoInteresting ..
14:11.31alteregoIt just worked.
14:11.45cosmoanyone working on port of this?
14:11.53alteregoI wasn't specifying a -k option ;)
14:16.38*** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@
14:19.04chellialterego: 'echo "default-key <yourkeyid>" >> ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf' and you can omit -k when calling debsign :)
14:19.50*** join/#maemo mallum (n=mallum@
14:22.44Takchelli: cool, thanks
14:22.46alteregochelli, thanks :)
14:23.20chellinp :)
14:25.37bstock~/join #eclipse
14:27.10*** join/#maemo cofeineSunshine (
14:28.06*** join/#maemo k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@
14:28.32Takboolean logic irc :-)
14:29.23czror, "use my version of the join command, which is far superior from the standard one"
14:30.15timo___^- czr's join script
14:30.57czroh no. now all my valuable IPR is falling into the evil hands of evil internet hackers.
14:30.59cofeineSunshineis it true, that if i dont have nokia internet tablet, i cant download sources for it?
14:31.10cofeineSunshinein that way, i cant to port maemo to ipaq
14:31.17czrcofeineSunshine, you can install the SDK
14:31.28czrcofeineSunshine, installing the SDK does not require a device or any kind of code
14:31.49cofeineSunshinebut sdk is for building apps for maemo
14:31.53bstockthat's not as bad as once there was a space in front and i didn't relize when i went to register my nick.. and told the whole channel my password ;)
14:31.54czrnote that the SDK is not the same as "the device". the device contains other stuff as well (some of which is closed source to begin with)
14:32.08czrcofeineSunshine, indeed it is.
14:32.23czrbstock, happens to the best of us at some point :-)
14:32.24cofeineSunshinei want to build a maemo port for ipaq h2200
14:32.30*** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (
14:32.38bstockheh yep
14:33.10FMz_Doesn't Nokia host the Maemo site?
14:33.55czrFMz_, not directly.
14:34.03FMz_I think they need to find another host ;p
14:34.37czrTak, that's because you didn't load all the "convert seemingly questionable language into interesting philosophical discussion" script as well
14:35.03FMz_Trying to find out if Video Center is yet ported to OS2008
14:35.26TakI see - does that script get loaded into my irc client, or my brain?
14:35.49czrTak, what, you are still using the discrete irc? it's designed for the integrated model. irc=brain=irc.
14:36.04*** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@
14:36.07Takah, there's my problem
14:36.10*** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@
14:36.17FMz_Or  irc===brain ?
14:36.38*** join/#maemo chx (
14:37.26chxhi. is the N810 really out already, like, can be bought by mere mortals? price... is not an object. it's the Dream Device. (keyboard, Linux, GPS, whee!)
14:37.44timo___not yet
14:38.04wumpuschx: almost the dream device, if it only had 3d :)
14:38.15czralthough technically it's not mine.
14:38.18timo___czr: yuk
14:38.23disqi have my doubts about the gps reception
14:38.37timo___czr: like this?
14:38.45czrtimo___, no. not like that :-)
14:38.53disqsome gps-builtin phones can't get a fix easily (fcc being too strict? or not strict enough on bt-gps modules?)
14:38.54FMz_chx:  if you pay me $480, i will take the job of notifying you as soon as it is available
14:39.46chxczr: where did you get yours?
14:39.53czrI was born with them
14:39.58czrerr. it's a secret :-)
14:40.07timo___czr: i have 4 n800's here; 4 * 800 > 810, njäh njäh
14:40.23timo___plus one more at home
14:40.36czrtimo___, ah yes. but I have a 770, a 800 and a 810 and am breeding them together to get a 2380
14:40.47chxczr: no, really
14:40.49timo___i have my 770 to my godson
14:40.52deejoesounds heavy
14:40.57czrchx, really. can't tell you.
14:41.21chxczr: let me ask this way. if you erm lose yours , would you be able to get another?
14:41.32timo___if he tells you, he has to kill all your irc server connections
14:41.40deejoeor, perhaps, can you tell us why you can't tell us?
14:41.41czrchx, not without getting bitch-slapped seriously first. just be patient.
14:41.42timo___and cause a netsplit unheard of before
14:42.19deejoechx: do not have yourself admitted
14:42.20czrtimo___, you have to change your nick to time__ now
14:42.43cosmochx: client in a hospital? ;)
14:42.49czr___++ == __
14:43.01czralthough I could create havoc by running *= 2 on you.
14:43.11timo___i still don't get it
14:43.20czr_ is mainus you see.
14:43.27timo___the what?
14:43.35czrbah :-)
14:44.19czreating too much cake affects your perception :-)
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14:46.05timo___i feel horrible
14:47.01czrhmm. should get some food soon. I've got a feeling that going to be working until midnight once again
14:48.51timo___it has only desired effects
14:49.16czrhmm. I could also do with some kind of cancellation pill
14:49.18db48xmost people don't drink alcoholic beverages with the intetion of getting a hangover
14:49.29timo___i do
14:49.32timo___no.. wait..
14:50.24timo___it would be great if beer tasted like shit, you wouldn't get drunk but you would still get the hangover
14:50.45czrerr. you're not really helping yourself :-)
14:51.23FMz_Aah, the intellectual conversations heard in #maemo
14:52.14timo___all the osso guys are carousing on a ferry boat, so we are allowed to at least talk about beer and hangover
14:52.20FMz_W00t, n800 will be overclocked in OS2008 to same speed as n810
14:52.32czrtimo___, true.
14:52.35db48xs/will be/is/
14:52.47czrshould we call the port-authorities on the other side to warn about these ppl?
14:52.52czrat least get some revenge on them
14:52.58czr"you want to put your hand where?!?"
14:53.21FMz_Will be... AFAIK OS2008 is not yet out
14:53.43db48xsome people already have it on their n800
14:53.50L0cutusi've read that it will be out in december...
14:54.04L0cutuswith the first patch
14:54.26FMz_Me too.  Thats what Nokias page said
14:54.54db48xit was all anyone could talk about yesterday
14:55.04db48xtoday I guess it's been relegated to google
14:55.20FMz_Any links?
14:55.46FMz_Damn you and all you stand for.
14:56.40elbyeah, is this place always like this, or just near releases?
14:57.08db48xI've heard tell that there are occasionally technical conversations
14:58.49Takmore so near release
14:58.52czrmainly we discuss how great the iPhone is.
14:59.31suihkulokkior openmoko, or android, or whatever
14:59.41db48xI think the most technical conversation I've seen in the last few days was about how to get android running on the n800 :P
14:59.48timo___after that we discuss how great i am
15:00.08czrtimo___, that needs no discussion.
15:00.12*** part/#maemo chx (
15:00.14suihkulokkiinteresting, I don't think anyone has cared about windows mobile here
15:00.16czreveryone knows exactly how great you are :-)
15:00.27Takthere was a lot of pvr driver discussion early this morning (EST)
15:00.46czrtimo___, but we could theorize how much greater the greatness could get, if it could be possible :-)
15:00.47timo___Tak: by accident? was before I was here to corrupt the topic to czr's perverted irc scripts
15:01.33FMz_here was a young harlot from marlot, whose garter was bright bloody scarlet.  when old men she saw, who called her a whore... she loved being a local starlet
15:01.50czrTak, they're called "important and valuable intellectual property", not perverted!
15:01.58db48xall my VMs are fscking their disks
15:02.15FMz_Forgot i was in this window, was playing with fullscreen keyboard I shall take the plunge and set up a new scratchbox with chinook and bora sdks
15:05.27timo___scratchbox sucks
15:06.00czrtimo___, no more cake for you :-)
15:06.20timo___Tak: just use multiple targets
15:06.22alteregoTak, just edit the install scripts.
15:06.26*** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@
15:06.32alteregoThere are two lines to edit
15:06.33czrjust throw everything out of the window and go and have a beer
15:06.39jumpulaand don't have several sdks open the same time
15:06.41alteregoRight at the top of the files.
15:07.40alteregoTak, just change the variables: __target_prefix from SDK_ to something like maemo4-sdk and maemo3-sdk etc.
15:09.01czr"this option will be used later on in the next example."
15:09.40czrfunny thing is, I wrote that more than two years ago, and NEVER has ANYONE actually noticed that. or maybe they've just been too tired.
15:12.11czrjumpula, does it also contain beer? timo___ would be interested for sure :)
15:12.34czrbeer that tastes like crap. no?
15:12.46jumpulai prefer my beer outside the toilet bowl
15:12.56jumpulaif the goal is to drink it :]
15:13.39Veggenwell. It'll sooner or later end up in the toilet boil anyhow, one way or another ;)
15:14.01jumpulain an undrinkable form
15:14.17jumpulaalthough, can't verify on the undrinkable. never actually tried.
15:15.32db48xoh, in case anyone was wondering, a little bird told me that IT2008 does fix the bugs in maemo-summoner
15:16.46*** join/#maemo hexa (n=hexa@
15:19.24alteregoIs there a tablet facebook group?
15:19.30alteregoI think I'll make one if not :)
15:19.48czrmy face is tabletish. do I qualify?
15:19.54alteregoWhy not ..
15:21.32timo___theres some maemo fan clup, n810 and n800 groups
15:22.39Jaffaalterego: there are loads
15:23.05alteregoIs there a good one? :D
15:23.10FMz_alterego: just the man.  Any idea if Video Center is ported to OS2008 yet?
15:25.34alteregoFMz_, what's video center?
15:25.54alteregolardman, do you code with a slur?
15:26.25lardmanno, a becks
15:26.34FMz_...  the app you recommended
15:26.36alteregoMmmm .. Becks ...
15:26.52alteregoFMz_, I think you might be getting me mixed up with someone else :)
15:26.54lardmanit does take me alsmost all of the next day to work out what the code does and if it works correctly, which it invariably does
15:27.04alteregoI don't even use "Video Center"
15:27.19FMz_I coulda sworn
15:27.36FMz_Aight, sorry man... lol
15:27.59elblike all the people who claim to speak some language better when they're drunk
15:28.09lardmanthere are some things that one won't contemplate doing while sober
15:28.21elb*that* is a different story ;-)
15:28.22lardmanlike PhD thesis writing
15:28.36FMz_e.g. installing Windows
15:28.49timo___why oh why? :(
15:29.11VeggenI've never actually installed Windows in all my life.
15:29.23lardmanwumpus: you know our missing symbols, where are they held in the module?
15:29.32alteregoVeggen, you're like a virgin
15:29.36alteregoA very lucky virgin ..
15:29.40Veggen(I've always lived under the philosophy that Windows is SEP :)
15:29.55Takmore like somebody who's never seen goatse
15:30.19Veggenoh, I've seen goatse.
15:30.29VeggenI think it's better to see goatse than to install Windows.
15:30.31timo___goatse is preferable to windows
15:30.46alteregoThe VKB in 2008 seems very irratic.
15:31.07chellianyone interested in trying claws-mail on OS2008? (i would like to know if my port works before i flash OS2008 on my N800 and before i send the patch to the claws-mail developers)
15:35.22*** join/#maemo jeff1f (
15:36.12lardmanIs there a tool to look at the exported fns and variables of a given kernel module?
15:36.58lardmanah, --section with objdump
15:37.38*** join/#maemo henno (i=henno@gateway/tor/x-8045bd8636daabb0)
15:39.45Jaffalardman: looking at PowerVR driver still?
15:39.48lardmanRight, next question, debugging information in a kernel module, what would one expect to find in there?
15:39.51lardmanJaffa: yep
15:40.45lardmanI'm thinking of patching the pci calls that this module makes and changing them to something else that is exported by our kernel, where should I look for these function names? relocation table or similar?
15:42.54*** join/#maemo cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@
15:44.32lardmanno ideas?
15:45.38Takhmm - so I'm not seeing the places in the scripts I should edit
15:46.23lardmansbox with multiple sdks?
15:46.46lardmanI just install them to /scratchbox then move each one to e.g. /scratchbox.4.0
15:47.12Takyeah, but then you have two scratchboxen
15:47.34timo___i guess sdk here refers to the maemo rootstrap
15:47.46timo___you only need one sbox
15:47.58lardmanI suppose you need two though one for <4.0 and one for >=4.0?
15:48.00timo___you can set up multiple sbox targets and use different rootstraps
15:48.14timo___don't they use the same sbox version?
15:48.20lardmanI think not
15:48.25lardmanbut am not sure
15:48.41jumpulaif the 3.x version is from the newest installer, you don't
15:48.53czrlardman, sbox for 4.0 is the same as for 3.1/3.2
15:48.58jumpulaif it's just upgraded with apt-get, need 2 scratchboxes
15:49.30timo___jumpula: sounds fun
15:50.02jumpulathe old 3.x models use generic debian devkit in their targets which is no longer present. although you can edit target config manually to fix this.
15:50.03timo___i prefer no version
15:50.25timo___sb2 ftw
15:50.47czrsound laster 2
15:51.24czralthough there was no sb pro in between!
15:52.14zoranlardman, wsp in november?
15:52.22czras long as it's not twisted sister
15:52.33timo___wasp's twisted sister
15:52.51timo___czr: that is substandard
15:53.01czrwhat did you expect from me? :-)
15:53.23czrI boldly go where no standardization committee dares to enter
15:53.55timo___time for you to go to a pub
15:54.03timo___and don't take an irc-capable device with you
15:54.10Takhmm - is there a way to not install an x86 target?
15:54.10czrI wish. I drank almost two beers yesterday.
15:54.21czrtimo___, but if I take n810, it's ok? :-)
15:54.29*** part/#maemo rghosh (
15:54.37Takor rather, is it recommended to do so?
15:54.51czrTak, if you plan to test your software, then install X86
15:54.59czrthe ARMEL is only suitable for building sw. not testing.
15:55.08TakI never, ever use the x86 target
15:55.20czryou do your testing on the device?
15:55.23timo___x86 targets are for wimps
15:55.35czrI guess you're free to do whatever you like :-)
15:56.09alteregoPdigin file transfer is b0rked.
15:56.10timo___you can call me timo
15:56.16timo___i won't mind
15:56.39Taks/file transfer //
15:58.58timo___sbox_stop first
15:59.53Takdid that ;-)
16:00.14timo___sbox_ctl stop
16:01.10alteregorm -wtf /scratchbox
16:02.07timo___hoho, bsdgames package includes wtf
16:03.45czrindeed. timo is also using ubuntu
16:03.55czrthere is no ftw sadly
16:05.21timo___hmm i wonder what lolcat(1) would do
16:05.30timo___filter input?
16:05.54Takprobably like chef
16:07.38TakI meun, prubebly leeke-a cheff. Bork Bork Bork!
16:11.23*** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@
16:12.22zoransome1 tried palm apps on garnetvm?
16:25.43czranother classic in the making: "We certainly didn't declare them anywhere in your Makefile."
16:26.17Takhow irresponsible
16:26.28czrwe must of course mean the same secretive society that is more commonly referred to as "them".
16:27.00czrI can only deduce that no one actually ever reads anything that I write.
16:27.05czror bother to send any feedback :-)
16:28.10*** join/#maemo pupnik (
16:28.15pupnik!news opengl
16:28.19*** join/#maemo matt_c (
16:28.43*** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz)
16:28.51czrpupnik, I don't know anything about opengl
16:28.55FMz_So, any clue where one could join the In Crowd and download OS2008 earlyy?
16:29.27czrFMz_, ask around for the crowd that are using the image meant for 810 on their 800 without realizing that the image is not meant for 800 ;-)
16:29.30pupnik  you could search os2008 on ITT forums
16:29.45_Monkeysalut, lopz
16:30.04FMz_Interesting thought czr...
16:30.05Takpupnik: doesn't it still require opengles libs that we don't have?
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16:30.19bedboianyone knows how to flash a n800 with the "dual boot" bootloader?
16:30.20*** part/#maemo celesteh (
16:30.22FMz_Not gonna try that... heh
16:31.02czrdamn this thing is taking ages to go through
16:31.07czrno wonder no one ever reads it.
16:33.38pupnikduno Tak
16:34.15alteregoWell, I just restarted 2008 and it doesn't seem to boot slow. So I don't see what people are complaining about :)
16:34.16*** join/#maemo tank17 (i=tank17@gateway/tor/x-48dca697742557f5)
16:34.21alteregoIf anything it boots better.
16:34.50*** join/#maemo koen_ (
16:35.33pupniki hope read/write speed is min 4MB/s for the swap
16:35.38alteregoAt least as soon as the desktop is shown you can interact with it immediately. Where as there was a lot of lag upon booting 2007
16:35.50czralterego, I found it much more responsive too
16:36.01czralthough I'm using a different version, but still. it's quite nice.
16:36.02Takinteraction is overrated
16:36.27alteregoThere are obviously a few bugs.
16:37.05*** join/#maemo oil (
16:37.18alteregoMicroB seems a bit buggy. The VKB has some very annoying habits and obviously because it's not actually meant for my device the device information screen isn't populated correctly.
16:38.41alteregoI can't help but think maybe the N810 has caused Nokia to be a little careless with it on the N800 .. Though I kind of find this hard to believe.
16:39.19czralterego, you say that while running the image that is meant for n810?
16:39.39czrI'd think their priorities is getting n810 out properly, not getting the update on the n800 working perfectly.
16:39.47*** join/#maemo koen_ (
16:39.52czrso one can just speculate what it means wrt functionality and bugs
16:40.39alteregoSo you think they might be being a bit sloppy with N800 support in OS2008?
16:40.48*** join/#maemo oil (
16:40.48czrI don't know
16:41.08czrbut I'd assume they have business priorities like everyone else and the pool of devs is limited.
16:41.18bill20r3you cant really judge it by the n810 flash running on the n800..
16:41.30alteregoWell, the VKB issue seems quite appearanty with ignoring it because of the hardware keyboard :)
16:41.43JaffaYeah, OS2008.2 is what's going to be officially released for the N800
16:42.46alteregoI don't see why the rootfs would be any different for N800 or N810
16:42.54alteregoInitfs .. Sure .. Kernel .. Sure.
16:43.09alteregoThough, it doesn't even look like the kernel image is different ..
16:44.54alteregoSure, except it wasn't uploaded until after the announcement that the final version was ready.
16:44.59alteregoAnd the N810 was being distributed.
16:45.29|Rsome picture of the n810 have N00 as a number... (or maybe i hallucinated)
16:46.12oilhey, what repositories do I need to install UKMP? it always complains about mediacenter and python2.5-runtime, which can not be installed?
16:46.39disqn00 models are prototypes
16:46.40bedboii'm gonna release gpe-sudoku for os2008
16:46.51lardmanoil: extras should have python2.5
16:46.52disqmediacenter = ukmp
16:47.15|Rlike this :) chinook free non-free is needed for python2.5
16:47.27disqextras is already configured, should enable it also
16:47.47oillardman: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
16:47.59oilwhen I try to install python2.5
16:48.09oiland I have extras activated as well
16:48.27X-Fadeoil: They are in the sdk repositories. But should be uploaded to extras.
16:48.27lardmanadd the sdk repo
16:48.38FMz_bedboi: Thanks!  Love Sudoku
16:48.50oilwhich is the sdk repo?
16:49.03oilsorry for stupid questions :)
16:49.07pupniklooking at reggie's N810 walkthrough - it's amazing how compact it is
16:49.10X-FadeThe plan about the SDK repository is that all libs that are not shipped in the device, should be uploaded in extras.
16:49.15_Monkeywell, is ok
16:49.49oildeb chinook free non-free
16:50.14oiland I had the same problem with 2007, then wanted to try 2008 if it would work
16:50.35lardmanoil: copy that one and remove the extras from the end of the url
16:51.27*** join/#maemo erstazi (n=erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi)
16:52.04erstazigood read for everyone:
16:52.05oiloh dear.. that was it. feeling.. well reddish :)
16:52.42oilthanks a great deal
16:53.55*** join/#maemo l7 (
16:56.07*** join/#maemo simon_ (
16:56.13*** join/#maemo penguinbait (n=sage-@
16:56.21oiluh. still errors.
16:56.44|Rah man this site is so broken...
16:57.01|Rlast time i couldn't login to my new account, this time it doesn't acquire a nickname to it's irc server!
16:57.18pupnikis show running?
16:57.50Jaffaerstazi: I've got a since of deja vu reading it, I've read it before - many years ago (I'm certain)
16:58.53Takerstazi: interesting
16:59.20bedboidamn, the web browser is so fast
17:00.31pupnikit's liek the time tunnel
17:00.56oilhmm. I suppose I just keep on doing google work with my ukmp
17:01.08*** join/#maemo L0cutusM (
17:01.14erstaziTak and Jaffa: yeah its amazing how it was written in 1909... EM Forster predicts the internet, social networking sites, video conferencing etc etc
17:01.31oilbut then again. how much latency do you have while doing ping to the n800 os2008?
17:01.55pupnikyep erstazi i read that story in 1986 and was pretty much ... rebooted brain
17:02.03oilfor me it's 18-300 ms from the router while other devices are much less.
17:02.55bedboirtt min/avg/max/mdev = 3.222/26.395/100.307/33.364 ms
17:03.47oilround-trip min/avg/max = 32.9/153.6/279.3 ms
17:04.12bedboimine is without wep
17:04.28bedboiwhich of course changes things a lot
17:05.34oilbut I did not felt that it was this slow previously
17:07.41lardmanoil: you lack the deps
17:07.47juh0oil: ukmp 1.7 beta and python2.5 is running fine here on chinook
17:07.59lardmanoil: did you apt-get update?
17:08.06bedboiwhat's the root password in OS2008?
17:08.12_Monkeyrootme is the default pw?
17:08.13oillardman: yes I did
17:08.50lardmanoil: do those packages exist in the repo?
17:09.10juh0yes they do i installed python like 10 minutes ago
17:09.56alteregoMy net tubes are clogged.
17:10.02alteregoI think my ISP has been smoking
17:10.02oil770 using wep, same network round-trip min/avg/max = 22.3/63.2/243.3 ms (the first packet is the long one. others 22ms)
17:10.04lardmantry installing python2.5 rather than python2.5-runtime
17:11.14juh0use application manger instead apt-get?
17:11.14lardmandunno, could do
17:12.21*** join/#maemo lardman_ (n=vircuser@
17:15.05oilpython2.5 is installed by apt-get, now trying to install python2.5-runtime by application manager
17:15.29lardman-runtime isn't in the same repo, or at least didn't look like it was
17:15.38lardmantherefore it might depend on different versions
17:17.01oil.. and that worked. great.
17:17.19*** join/#maemo fr01 (
17:17.36lardmanI love it when a plan comes together
17:17.40*** part/#maemo erstazi (n=erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi)
17:19.30oil..kind of.. ukmp dark starts, says 'reading music information' .. and does the beatifull crashdown :)
17:20.07lardmanstart it from the terminal, see what it says...
17:20.28*** join/#maemo natacha29 (
17:22.53juh0hmm you should try latest beta
17:23.14oiljuh0:  where can I get one?
17:23.14_Monkeyi heard one was a real bug where dpad scrolling does not stop when you release the button
17:29.54alteregoI'm getting "permission denied" errors when attempting to upload to extras-devel
17:30.02alteregoAnyone got any solution for me? :)
17:31.54penguinbaitnot one that you would like :)
17:32.12alteregoI can only guess it's because of my public key.
17:32.32alteregoIs there a way to force keyboard-interactive authentication?
17:32.34*** join/#maemo fab (
17:32.38alterego(without deleting my key)
17:33.38pupnikwhen is will comingness N810 to store when is N810 time?
17:33.52*** join/#maemo koen (
17:33.54alteregoNice command of English pupnik
17:34.17pupniki am turning japanese
17:34.22bill20r3soon tell time release of date.
17:34.25Takyou really think so?
17:34.36alteregopupnik, starting to like Ruby yet?
17:35.13alteregoLiking Ruby would make it more likely you're turning Japanese.
17:35.13pupniki changed like 10 characters of a ruby script
17:36.19alteregoHmm .. Keep getting "lost connection"
17:36.21pupnik'turning japanese' was one of the first songs my college band played live
17:37.00alteregoDo I need to talk to someone to allow me to upload to extras-devel?
17:37.05alteregoI thought it was completely public ..
17:37.21Takis extras-devel even configured yet?
17:37.43oilalterego: you had some connectivity problems with internet? which part of the world are you located
17:37.57alteregoI'm not having connectivity problems.
17:38.12alteregoI'm having uploading to extras-devel problems.
17:38.40oilalterego: earlier 'alterego> My net tubes are clogged.'
17:38.50*** join/#maemo b0unc3 (
17:38.54alteregoMeh, just a bit of lag.
17:39.06oiljust wondering as mine has been very slow today (thailand)
17:39.22alteregoIt's dinner time so there'll be loads of people online.
17:39.32alteregoI'm in UK
17:39.57solmumahai'm in agony
17:40.15oilukmp1.7 seems to be working very well. now going trought the album covers. however I had to uninstall 1.621 version before I could install the 1.7.
17:40.29solmumahamorphine the better
17:40.45solmumahanot sure it would help
17:40.47oilsolmumaha: you should with you nickname :)
17:40.50disqanybody else used softpoweroff in chinook/n800? screen events remain active when i switch
17:41.46solmumahaoil: doesn't require morphine anymore
17:42.31*** join/#maemo K`zan (
17:43.37oilwhoa. this ukmp looks really cool. now playing 'Baarikarpanen' - old finnish drinking song :)
17:44.11lardmanpupnik: thanks
17:44.19lardmansoooo long to wait
17:44.39kulvelardman: somehow I think they don't really know the date yet..
17:44.56lardmanwhy do you think that?
17:45.00lardmansoftware issues?
17:45.09kulveI mean the shops doesn't know it
17:45.18JaffaExpansys' dates aren't massively accurate, though.
17:45.34lardmanah yes, so it could actually be tomorrow :)
17:45.49kulvelardman: yes. Let's hope so :)
17:47.47Takwhat a waste - hoping for yesterday would be much more productive
17:48.45lardmanhacking kernel modules would be more useful too
17:49.12alteregoI gave up and asked the mailing list.
17:49.19alteregoI can't be bothered to waste anymore time on it ..
17:49.20oilI'm amazed. this player is ipod/iphone user interface quality
17:49.31alteregoI have more important things ..
17:49.34alteregoLike ruby 2.0! broken again...
17:50.29*** join/#maemo harminoff (
17:50.56harminoffcan I use my sprint treo 650 (w/ unlimited data plan) to access the internet on a n770?
17:51.59alteregoharminoff, if it has BT DUN capabilities yes.
17:52.09RobAtWorkohh, no 'how'
17:52.10bedboiis there a good guide on how to set-up a .install file/
17:52.14RobAtWorkI have one
17:52.17RobAtWorkworks fine
17:52.18bedboifor os2008
17:55.45Tak'unable to get login information for username "levi" at /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/lib/dpkg/ line 65.  dh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 6400'
17:56.08GeneralAntillesAnybody else catch Nokia's awesome trendiness? ;)
17:56.13Takthis is while building a test deb package in the chinook rootfs
17:56.16Takany ideas?
17:56.41alteregoTak, weird. IS your username levi?
17:57.10*** join/#maemo Atarii (
17:57.10Takhmm...although `whoami` doesn't know who I am either
17:57.13alteregoI've never seen that happen.
17:57.26alteregoThat could be your problem then ;)
17:57.39Takdo I need to recreate the user for each rootstrap?
17:57.42bedboiare you sure that rootme is the root password in os2008
17:57.50alteregoTak, no
17:58.07alteregobedboi, maybe. OS2008 isn't out yet though :P
17:59.10Takhmm - I have a passwd entry in the bora fs, but not the chinook
17:59.43b0unc3bedboi: yes
18:00.16alteregoThere's a password entry in my rootfs ..
18:00.21GeneralAntillesbedboi, you have to enable R&D
18:00.54*** join/#maemo pleemans (
18:01.07alteregoIt's gonna be the greatest thing since we landed on the moon (appearantly)
18:01.31*** join/#maemo Andy80 (
18:01.47_berto_alterego: then hurry up because i'm releasing vagalume 0.3 sooner or later
18:02.08alterego_berto_, chinook packages for ruby-maemo are out :)
18:02.25_berto_and vagalume 0.2 too, but I was only joking obviously
18:02.35alteregoI've been trying to sort out a one-click-install but until I can upload to extras-devel I can't do it :/
18:04.14alteregoI don't think I'll release ruby1,8-maemo 0.4.0 tomorrow.
18:04.20alteregoI'll probably try and get it out on Monday.
18:04.53harminoffalterego it does have bluetooth, how do I check if it has dun?
18:05.09kulvedoes somebody know how the Notifications dbus interface for infoprints works in os2008? The old banner dbus interface seems to be gone
18:05.12alteregoharminoff, try it and see if it works ;)
18:05.43alteregoI thought there was an info-print wrapper ..
18:05.59Takalterego: what's the difference in 0.4.0 ?
18:06.09alteregoTak, desktop plugins! :)
18:06.12Andy80hi all :)
18:06.19harminoffi dont have a tablet and will only buy one if it does work
18:06.24kulvealterego: infoprint wrapper?
18:06.24Andy80_berto_: hi berto!
18:06.39harminoffwell I know that I can connect my treo650 to a laptop and use pdanet to access the internet
18:06.42alteregokulve, yeah .. A script for HildonBanner
18:06.51Takhooray, xmaeme builds in chinook
18:07.06kulvealterego: hmm.. have to check out. You don't happen to have an url for that? :)
18:07.16alteregokulve, no, sorry :/
18:07.44alteregokulve, hang on .. What's the dbus-send that doesn't work in chinook?
18:07.55L0cutus<alterego> harminoff, if it has BT DUN capabilities yes.
18:08.01L0cutusalso if it has PAN
18:08.21*** join/#maemo guardian (
18:08.26alteregoIT OS doesn't directly support PAN
18:08.26RobAtWorkharminoff: DUN works fine with the 770.
18:08.31RobAtWorkI have a 650 and a 770
18:08.35Andy80harminoff: yes, it has. Read the manual:
18:08.47kulvealterego: the old status bar had an interface for sending the message to be shown as banners. But there seems to be a standard Notification interface now (with infoprint modification)
18:08.49Andy80RobAtWork: what is a 650?
18:09.18RobAtWorkthe Treo harminoff was inquiring about connecting to a 770
18:09.18*** join/#maemo koen_ (
18:09.28L0cutusnot directly, but is possible to use it , after a bit of hacking :)
18:09.33alteregokulve, yeah .. What was the command line?
18:09.34Andy80ah ok
18:09.43alteregokulve, occured to me that those things have changed names.
18:09.54alteregokulve, so the API might be there .. But under a different object.
18:10.16kulvedbus-send --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/statusbar string:"foobar"
18:10.28kulvealterego: yeah, that can be
18:10.31*** join/#maemo koen (
18:12.35alteregokulve, well .. Looking in /usr/share/dbus-1/services .. I don't see a statusbar
18:12.56harminoffthank you
18:13.22MagicFabwow -
18:13.28alteregokulve, doesn't appear to be _anything_ in there that'd do what you want.
18:13.44*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@
18:13.59czralterego, statusbar has been replaced by fdo.notification
18:14.17czrlet me dig for the dbus-send example
18:14.24alteregoczr, can it be accessed from the command line? Do you have the dbus-send command?
18:14.26czr(just fixed mine two days back or so)
18:14.28alteregoAh, nice.
18:14.30czryes yes, give me a sec
18:15.32czrbleh. I don't have a dbus-send example directly. give me a sec, I'll make one :-)
18:15.44czrupdated one program to use the new interface, but not the dbus-send examples
18:16.10L0cutusaaargh, no osso-statusbar-cpu on os2008 :-(
18:16.19alteregoL0cutus, yeah .. I miss that too ;)
18:16.41kulveL0cutus: I'm sure those show up, once the device is out :)
18:16.47kulvehard to test them before hand
18:16.55alteregoWell .. Not really ;)
18:17.09L0cutussdk isn't here ? :)
18:17.15alteregoLooks like ~150 people have already upgraded to 2008
18:17.21L0cutusonly ?
18:17.46alteregoWell, out of the 4k or so registered members that's not much I guess.
18:17.54czralterego, dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteDialog string:"Hello world" uint32:0 string:"buttontxt"
18:17.54_berto_2008 for the N800 is out ?
18:17.57alteregoI wonder what the ratio of 770:N800 is
18:18.02_berto_is it official?
18:18.08alteregoczr, thanks :)
18:18.10alterego_berto_, no
18:18.11czrsecond parameter works the same way as it did for statusbar. the new (third) param is the button text
18:18.23czralterego, if you leave the button text as '', it will be the 'default' (which is Ok)
18:18.28_berto_so how did they upgrade?
18:18.44czr_berto_, they installed the N810 image into N800
18:18.47alteregoczr, thanks
18:18.53_berto_czr: ahm, ok
18:18.55kulveczr: how about infoprints?
18:19.05kulveI would like to have just a note, no interaction
18:19.06alteregoczr, that's the note dialog. Not the HildonBanner info print ..
18:19.16alteregoStill usefull to know though ;)
18:19.25czrhmm. but it was also handled by statusbar
18:19.36czryou could read the libosso source code. it has the method names and stuff
18:19.40*** join/#maemo l7 (
18:19.43czrimplementation for the infoprint thingy is there.
18:19.48czror rather, the d-bus call
18:20.03Andy80_berto_: maybe you have a private chat ;)
18:21.45czralterego, kulve, I only use the note dialog in my stuff. hence, you'll have to dig in the libosso source to find the answer. or maybe there is an fdo spec by now on the notifications interface.
18:21.49*** join/#maemo t_s_o (
18:22.08_berto_ok, I was just curious ;)
18:23.53alteregoWoo ! MicroB crash! :)
18:23.53alteregoMy first 2008 crash ^_^
18:23.53alteregoAnyhow .. Dinner time.
18:24.12czryou're going to eat the pieces of microb? :-)
18:26.16_berto_Andy80: I'm not a registered user, I cannot send private msgs :(
18:26.18*** join/#maemo lsobral (n=sobral@
18:26.22czroo. I found an interesting feature in the notifications thingy
18:26.28czralterego, try icon-type 4
18:26.32Andy80_berto_: ah ok... you read mine anyway?
18:26.52_berto_thanks, I'll let you know in case I need help :)
18:27.14czrinteresting. there also seems to be a bug with icon-type 5
18:27.36czrwho confesses to know something about hildon_desktop_notification_manager_system_note_dialog?
18:27.44_berto_Andy80: thx, my contact info is in my webpage
18:27.51czr(the function name reminds me of why I don't like PHP that much)
18:28.12Andy80ok :)
18:28.58*** join/#maemo Lateralus (
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18:32.09pupnik1 day left to submit entries to the thoughtfix N810 giveaway
18:32.32czralterego, kulve: SystemNoteInfoprint
18:32.39*** join/#maemo TimRiker (n=timr@
18:33.11czrhmm. is there are http interface to project/haf/truk/libosso somewhere?
18:33.15czr(silly question, I know)
18:33.30bedboicat /dev/fb0 > something.raw is not good for taking screenshots
18:34.15czrfound it, nm
18:34.59czralterego, kulve, so just use that membername, and it will work (interfaces and service names stay the same as in SystemNoteDialog)
18:35.06czrafk ->
18:35.09*** join/#maemo alex-weej (
18:35.14*** join/#maemo ryanfaerman (
18:36.09*** join/#maemo khertan (
18:36.37khertanIs there a maemo sdk 4 (not beta) wmware appliance ?
18:36.47khertanor is it too early ? :)
18:39.51_berto_I have one with 2 3 and 4
18:40.05_berto_for qemu
18:40.27alteregoczr, magick you're a star :)
18:40.37Andy80it would be great if we could have different SDK in a single Scratchbox installation, selecting them with sb-menu...
18:40.38pupniki use bochs to emulate the tablet cpu
18:40.56scripthi, who is to contact about problems with theres libgcrypt in armel but not in x86
18:40.58_berto_but I read on planet.maemo about a vmware appliance with sdk 4
18:41.03TakAndy80: that's what I'm doing...
18:41.08alteregopupnik, is it better than qemu?
18:41.14_berto_Andy80: that's what I have
18:41.15Andy80Tak: how?
18:41.16alteregopupnik, do you still get unsupported instruction errors?
18:41.29_berto_Andy80: a single appliance with 1 sbox and 3 SDKs
18:42.01pupniki am bullsh1tting :)
18:42.08*** join/#maemo koen__ (
18:42.16TakI installed them manually based on the "installing both bora & gregale" list mail
18:42.20Andy80_berto_: how is it possible?
18:42.36Andy80I have to find it then :)
18:42.43_berto_I built it myself
18:42.52_berto_it's not rocket science
18:42.57_berto_install debian
18:42.58_berto_install sbox
18:43.03_berto_and install the sdks
18:43.09*** join/#maemo xan (
18:43.55khertanoh thanks ... i ven't read planet today
18:43.57_berto_it takes some time to download everything but it isn't difficult at all
18:44.18khertangurk download for the wmware is very slow ...
18:44.30*** part/#maemo bedboi (
18:45.18Andy80_berto_: ok, I'll try it :)
18:46.05*** join/#maemo playya (
18:48.57pupnikthat's splled "ur"
18:48.57Takapt-get install lolcode-maemo
18:48.57alteregoYou need more ?!?!?!
18:48.57alteregoStrange .. Everytime I use my device with 2008 on it .. I can't help but be very impressed.
18:52.54pupnikesquivel.  what is your favorite part?
18:53.03pupnikerm that was @ alterego
18:53.10*** join/#maemo fsmw (n=Fernando@
18:53.22alteregoJust the overall look.
18:54.32alteregoI didn't think I would like the new thumb size menus.
18:54.32alteregoBut they're actually pretty good.
18:54.32pupnikyeah it's a smart move for the thumb-fan peopl
18:54.32alteregoThey've added roll-around to the menus too which I like. (something I thought 2007 was missing)
18:54.33GeneralAntillesThe speed is what gets me.
18:54.44alteregoIt is certainly more responsive.
18:54.47GeneralAntillesI just wish I could disable avatars on the Speed Contacts applet.
18:55.22alteregoStraight after a boot you can start using it. 2007 had some weird lag where you had to wait ~6-7 seconds for the desktop to become interactive :/
18:55.42*** join/#maemo koen (
18:55.42alteregoNo gconf GUI
18:55.59alteregoLuckily there is ruby for it :)
18:57.02*** join/#maemo |tbb| (
18:57.57alteregoYeah, makes using the device on a bus or some other joggy transport easier.
18:58.08alteregoI think the
18:58.35alteregohardware keyboard in the N810 will make it easier to write on the move and stuff :) So much more portable when you can actually move around and use it at the same time.
18:58.39*** join/#maemo konttori (
18:59.44czralterego, np :-)
19:00.03czryes. you can finally irc while training for the rodeo
19:00.11*** join/#maemo IlTorto (
19:00.15pupnikand games
19:00.29pupnikdpad leftside, thumb keys right side
19:00.31pupniki'm happy
19:00.38czralterego, btw, if you run across the real spec for the notifications thingy, drop me a note
19:00.46czrI'm pulling out irrelevant boobies
19:00.51alteregoczr, sure.
19:00.54czrboobies? I meant to say "things"
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19:01.20alteregoThink I'll have a gander now actually.
19:01.23K`zanMorning folks
19:01.31czralterego, mm. laters then
19:04.58lardmanpupnik: is this what you were talking about re opengl?:
19:05.30pupnikwell that and the chat here from 12 hours ago
19:06.17lardmanI was just wondering if the 5Mbits of ram lma was talking about are powervr specific or if he's talking about the on-omap video memory?
19:06.35pupnikgood question
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19:11.24K`zanLooking over the 2008 development stuff, that is going to be a fun learning curve :).
19:11.46wumpuslardman: so it also has on-omap video memory that is distinct from the powervr?
19:11.58lardmanthey talk about it being good for uma devices, but also say that it does lots of on-chip processing to reduce bandwidth
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19:12.12lardmanwumpus: yes, I think there's framebuffer memory on the omap itself
19:12.29wumpusthen why do they use the sucky external lcd chip :/
19:13.02lardmanperhaps the on-chip is too small, or they wanted some power saving feature, or scaling support, etc?
19:14.03disqthey got HAL in chinook
19:14.08disqbut no python bindings as usual
19:14.15pupnikthe developer list had some info about lcd controller on 2420 and why they had to use the epson
19:14.17wumpushmm ok
19:14.34Takno libsdl-gfx1.2 for chinook yet?
19:14.51lardmanFramebuffer initialized. Total vram 261120 planes 1
19:15.14lardmanpresumably on the on chip is too small then
19:18.08pupniknot even sure it's possible to do hw accelerated opengl
19:18.19pupnikon n800
19:18.24pupnikwith that external framebuffer
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19:19.37pupniklooks to me like nokia will have this tablet market pretty much all to themselves through 2008
19:19.39Takanybody tried fceu/xmame/xmaeme on chinook?
19:19.42pupnikthe intel MIDs will be clunky
19:19.51lardmanwell if the 3d output buffer is held in shared memory somewhere, then there's no reason to not copy data from that to the framebuffer memory, is there?
19:19.54Takthe packages all seem like they build...
19:20.12pupniki haven't tak
19:20.59lardmanwumpus: "5-Mb internal SRAM boosts streaming media performance"
19:21.00pupniklardman: but it's also conceivable that the only thing that can see the output buffer of powervr would be the internal 2420 framebuffer
19:21.04alteregoThere's not much chance of me getting ruby-2.0 if the qemu glibc fiasco continues ..
19:21.46lardmanpupnik: perhaps, but the kernel can see the powervr memory, or the powervr maps some of the main memory in which case it can be accessed
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19:25.40alteregoscratchbox tools.
19:25.47alteregoHow can I make a devkit?
19:26.01*** join/#maemo rghosh (
19:26.17alteregoNice .. There's a tutorial :)
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19:31.07alteregowifi like hifi but fatter.
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19:42.35khertanarg no more set_rich_text_format on gtk.TextBuffer
19:43.00lardmanPowerVR cores use an on-chip tile buffer to keep all bandwidth-intensive pixel processing on-chip, where it can be executed most cost effectively and efficiently.
19:43.34lardmanMemory bandwidth requirements are minimized by eliminating all Z-buffer traffic between the 3D core and external memory, and by ensuring that only visible pixels are ever written to the frame buffer.
19:43.36alteregoTile buffers are cool.
19:43.45lardmanso, the powervr does have specific on-chip memory
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20:01.53Takso what's the policy for releasing stuff to chinook extras?
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20:09.14Takrelease now, fix later?
20:09.20*** join/#maemo p| (n=pi@
20:09.24K`zannononononon :-)
20:09.37K`zanGet right and release!
20:09.48K`zanWorth waiting for!
20:09.54Takwell, here's the dilemma:
20:09.56K`zanNagging optional :-)
20:10.34*** join/#maemo straind0 (
20:10.35pupnikbig bezels are going to go out of style bigtime on tablets
20:10.48Takn810s won't be out for a while, and I'm not flashing the n810 image to the n800 that my fiancee uses daily
20:10.51K`zanPersonally, if I get something crappy, I generally never try it again, yes, I know.
20:11.10*** join/#maemo birunko (n=birunko@
20:11.16K`zanFortunately not much of that in the linux world :)!
20:11.53K`zanTak: I wouldn't either.  I'm probably not going to upgrade beyond 2007 for a while.
20:12.14Takso, either there won't be a release of any of my stuff until one of those two things changes, or there can be a release I haven't tested on a device
20:12.41K`zanTak, yes, that is a REAL issue with this.  Not sure what is the best way to go to be honest.
20:13.01K`zanAlways a problem with incompatibe OS releases...
20:13.30K`zanThis has certainly caused me much thought as to what to do - how to go - etc.
20:13.32*** join/#maemo koen (
20:13.34pupnikneed multi-kernel multiboot
20:13.54*** join/#maemo scruggs (
20:13.59K`zanEventually things will catch up, but in the interum it is a mess and a hassle for all, but better in the end :).
20:14.25K`zanNot like you can boot multiple OSs like you can on a desktop... :-(.
20:14.55pupnikmultiboot is tremendous
20:14.57K`zanAnd to do the compatabilty, you end up like m$.
20:15.10pupnikhey what's the flash (not mmc2) on the N810 - 256MB?
20:15.37alteregoTak, release to extras-devel we can test. When it's out of beta release into extras
20:15.39K`zanBut I don't think you can do that with embedded.  If one could do image backup / restores it might be different.
20:15.52maddlerp|: ciao! :)
20:15.54pupniki do image-based backup/restores on my 770
20:15.55K`zanBut I suspect it isn't that simple.
20:16.06pupnikand multiboot - it's good
20:16.07K`zanAll OS and apps pupnik ?
20:16.10alteregoTak, extras-devel has to be entered into the application catalog directly so you have to want to use it and expect it to be buggy :)
20:16.13pupnikyes K`zan
20:16.25K`zanpupnik: That is encouraging, how long does it take?
20:16.55K`zanBear in mine, my n800 won't be here until tomorrow and my ignorance at this point is legion :-/.
20:16.57Takalterego: yeah, that could work
20:17.41pupnikabout 20-30 minutes for my 256MB partition
20:17.51K`zanpupnik: 810, right?
20:18.25pupnikwrite speed with stock kernel to rsmmc is about 260kB/s
20:18.25K`zanah, so you can backup what is on the card as well.  Cool, that aleviates some of the hassle.
20:18.51K`zanBut I would hate to swap back real often :-).
20:18.54p|pupnik: how do you make this backup ?
20:18.56pupnikit's a bit of a hassle to set up multiple bootable partitions on the card but it's not too bad
20:19.01pupniki use dd
20:19.05p|a ok
20:19.16K`zanpupnik: Obviously I have MUCH to learn...
20:19.23p|pupnik: a good how-to is welcome :)
20:19.40p|than i can translate it into Ita.
20:19.43K`zanwith 16G avail on the 800, that might be a lot easier to deal with if you can dual boot.
20:19.56pupniksomeone is erasing my _Monkey info
20:20.08pupniksearch itt forums for multiboot
20:20.16p|and for dd ?
20:21.09*** join/#maemo fr0 (
20:21.22pupnikfastest way to back up a partition from the device is to boot to the internal flash
20:21.24p|so you backup all the 256mb ?
20:21.27pupnikthen connect via USB to pc
20:21.30niteOwl2where is the monkey  today anyway? I just looked and can't find it in the list of users
20:21.47niteOwl2never mind
20:22.04pupnikthen you dd if=/dev/sda1 (or 2,3) of=mybackuppartitionfile bs=1M
20:22.43p|and to restore it ?
20:22.59p|invert the if/of ?
20:23.01pupnikdd if=mybackuppartitionfile of=/dev/sda1 bs=1m
20:25.58deejoepupnik, do you know of a write-up that covers multibooting for the n800?
20:26.10pupniki could search the ITT forums
20:26.47deejoeI'll search there.
20:28.43pupnikscary when the first google results are my own silly comments in this channel
20:29.08K`zanTak: Possible solution would be to get someone with the right OS to test for you?
20:29.11czrpupnik, it's like staring at the universe staring at you.
20:30.47maddlerp|: there should be something on's wiki as well... if I'm not wrong...
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20:31.39edistardoes the N810 have atheros chipset wlan?
20:31.51deejoeI'm not sure what the <del> and </del> are doing in there, though.
20:32.08deejoeas in "$./flasher <del>set-root-device mmc </del>reboot"
20:32.17maddlerpupnik: I was scared when I found "ubuntu ifconfig" on leads to my blog! (5th result!) :D
20:32.41maddleredistar: no... conxant 3110
20:33.21edistarmaddler: thanks!
20:33.26deejoemaddler: the one?
20:33.48maddlerdeejoe: right...
20:33.54edistarcan you buy it yet?
20:34.18maddlerand there are a few more searches which unexpectedly lead to as well...
20:34.20maddleredistar: yes...
20:34.29edistarmaddler: so you can't use airodump on the N810 anymore?
20:34.33maddleredistar: even if I was amazed it was still available!
20:34.36edistarmaddler: I didn't ask about
20:35.09maddleredistar: oh... :) btw... airodump should be working on N810... same wifi chipset as N800...
20:35.22maddleredistar: N810 is not available for general public yet...
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20:39.47edistarmaddler: but is conexant supported by wifi drivers?
20:40.52*** join/#maemo rkaway1 (
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20:41.34edistarmaddler: I thought only atheros
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20:41.57czrhmm. special symbols in the VKB don't work in 4.0 sdk
20:42.13czr(you know, pressing on the &!e button)
20:44.14maddleredistar: yep...
20:44.48maddleredistar: I have kismet and aircrack-ng running on N800
20:45.01czrhmm. infact, the euro symbol is missing on the SDK
20:45.12edistarmaddler: ok, then I must be mistaken
20:45.24maddlerczr: use "$"... exchange rate is convenient! :DDD
20:45.37czrI think I'll have to
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20:48.04czroh the irony. just noticed that all my screenshots so far have been slightly too small. /me kicks for xephyr allowing window resizing
20:50.14alteregoczr, have you looked at hildon-desktop-notification before?
20:50.29Takmaddler: sure, rub it in...
20:50.30czralterego, not really no. looked it at today
20:50.37czralterego, it was very very weird :-)
20:50.41maddlerTak: ?
20:50.45czrsqllite and all that all over
20:50.53alteregoczr, I cant find a file: hildon-desktop-notification-system.h
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20:51.03alteregoIt's included by two files :/
20:51.18alteregoczr, doesn't matter.
20:51.21czrhmm. I didn't find all the files either in the svn/trunk
20:51.27alteregoczr, check this out:
20:51.34czrif that helps. I doubt much of 4.0 is rebuildable
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20:51.38alterego(Not literally in the SVN sense .. ) :)
20:52.10czrah. great. that's the d-bus interface xml
20:52.15alteregoThat looks like our notification API :)
20:52.19Takexchange rate
20:52.20_MonkeyTak: that doesn't look right
20:52.25czryup. except that it's missing semantic data
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20:52.35alteregoczr, how do you mean?
20:52.46czralterego, if you find out what the return parameter for both SystemNoteDialog and SystemNoteInfoprint mean, do tell
20:52.50czrthey didn't exist before
20:53.02alteregoAh okay. I'll have a look.
20:53.03czrthe RPC returned void before. now they return an incrementing uint
20:53.05l0kiis there a nano version still out there for chinook?
20:53.13tkosemantics is overrated ;-)
20:53.20alteregoczr, Oh .. That's the index in the GtkList that they're stored in.
20:53.20czrl0ki, yes. it comes with nano
20:53.26czrtko, what does it do?
20:53.34czralterego, what for?
20:53.43alteregoczr, not sure. I'll have a gander.
20:53.44tkoczr: I've no idea
20:53.46l0kiczr, i don't think so
20:53.52czrok then. hence. semantic info would be nice.
20:54.10czralterego, did you check out icon-type=4?
20:54.19alteregoNo :)
20:54.31alteregoI've not really had a chance to play with the API.
20:54.32czrtry it out. use the dbus-send I gave you
20:54.32czrin the sdk
20:54.33alteregoI'm just documenting it in a blog entry.
20:54.38czrah, ok.
20:54.52czrI tried to make sense of the notificiation manager thingy, but really, it was black magic
20:55.03czrand I got all the time the feeling that I was reading a wrong file
20:55.23alteregoczr, yeah. What's with all the sqlite3 stuff? ^_^
20:55.24l0kiczr, i am searching a nano version for OS08 not for chinook itself ;)
20:55.33tkowell, notification manager is supposed to implement the fdo stuff.. plus some extensions perhaps
20:55.33czrl0ki, why did you say chinook then :-)
20:55.42alteregoczr, nice. Progress bar :)
20:55.46czralterego, kind of
20:55.52l0kifor bora it was in repository
20:55.53alteregoI think you can update that.
20:55.59czrbtw, I think I know what the return type is for. check the xml for "CloseNotification" member name
20:56.20alteregoczr, yeah. I think that's for updating the dynamic ones like progress bar.
20:56.22czrtype unsigned, same as the return. name "id". almost same as the "return_id".
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20:56.35czralterego, it is? I don't think you can update them the progress bar
20:56.41czrthe progress bar just "goes" by itself.
20:56.42alteregoczr, yet ..
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20:56.51czralterego, neh. it's for removing/closing the notifications
20:56.53alteregoIt's probably being remodelled.
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20:57.08czrin time for what? :-)
20:57.19czrI don't think it is. it's undocumented for sure, but still.
20:58.06alteregoI kept trying GetSystemInfo
20:58.11alteregobecause it's the name of the callback.
20:58.11czrtko, ok. google came up with blanks when I searched for the interface though. gelato had something, but without the extensions that are used by libosso
20:58.17alteregoHah .. Damn abbreviations ^_^
20:59.00czralterego, thanks for the xml btw. very nice.
20:59.15alteregoNot to look for other xml files ;)
21:00.03tkooh, right. SystemNote and SystemInfoprint are just HildonNote and HildonBanner that are system modal (as opposed to application modal) and the current implementation puts them in hildon-desktop
21:00.32alteregoI wonder why they chose org.freedesktop namespace
21:00.42czrtko, right. what are the return data useful for?
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21:00.58tkoczr: no idea. kick jobi :)
21:00.59lardmanhmm, unstripped module ~1Mb, stripped ~56kb, but no difference in the output from nm. What takes up all the room in an unstripped module?
21:01.02alteregoIt implements their standard API but they don't have SystemInfoprint or SystemNoteDialog
21:01.17czrthe pita thing about this crap is that I specifically selected statusbar/note for 3.2 since it has RPC methods which do not return any data
21:01.35czrnow the same methods return data. bleh.
21:01.45czrdata which I have no idea on what it's supposed to do too.
21:02.27czrmaybe I'll just write a small footnote at the end of the last appendix reading: "BTW, the RPC methods DO actually return data, but the author didn't find out what they mean, so they're just kind of ignored. sorry all.."
21:02.31alteregoczr, well you're right. It kills the dialog.
21:02.40czralterego, cool. without user interaction?
21:02.41pupniki wish someone with more than half-a-brain would port squidgeSNES or drpocketsnes from gp2x.
21:02.42alteregoczr, but the id's still increment.
21:02.47czralterego, ok
21:02.48TakI know!
21:02.51alteregoYeah, without user interation.
21:02.57czralterego, must be some internal counter thingy
21:03.09alteregoIt's probably the GtkListStore
21:03.43czrI'll have to sleep over this. to decide what to do with the material. bleh.
21:04.48alteregoI'm interested in the SQLite3 business.
21:04.52*** join/#maemo pc_speaker (
21:04.58alteregoI wonder what the persistance is for ..
21:05.13pupnikproblem is you can't just gather 6 people with 3/16ths of a brain each and get the same productivity as 1 full brain
21:05.32tkoah.. the return value is likely an id which the caller can use to close the note/infoprint
21:05.41alteregotko, we've worked that out ;)
21:05.48czrtko, yes. we figured out that by now.
21:05.54czrit would be nice to be documented somewhere though
21:05.59czralso I noticed something weird.
21:06.02tkoisn't it obvious? :)
21:06.11czrif note is used with icon type > 4, the RPC won't return at all.
21:06.18czrit should return an exception
21:06.27czrinstead it will g_assert itself on the server side and return nothing.
21:06.34tko(yes, I admit I'm not following the discussion that well)
21:06.34czrtko, no? :-)
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21:06.53czrtko, anyhow, don't worry, I know it's not your fault :-)
21:07.15alteregoUnless he's Rocha ^_^
21:07.20tkoczr: not worried
21:07.33tkoI'll just kick the ones responsible next time I see them :-P
21:07.51czrthe odds of the kick actually changing anything are quite.. small :-)
21:08.15alteregoI'm gonna have to check out hildon-desktop. I can't stand looking at it in firefox any longer ^_^
21:08.25czralterego, heh
21:08.27tkothey're quite reasonable, so I wouldn't say that
21:08.33czrtell me if you figure out the sqlite madness
21:09.15tkogetting an official release out with the changes is a different matter...
21:09.15czrtko, sure.
21:09.15alteregoOur problem is purely lack of documentation :)
21:09.15alteregoczr, isn't that your boat?
21:09.16czrironic, isn't it.
21:10.03tkoalterego: like a few people asked me when I enabled gtk-doc in some packages and it triggered problems in build system: "why do you want documentation anyway?"
21:10.21alteregoWE WANT DOCUMENTATION! :)
21:10.40czractually we don't :-)
21:10.48alteregoI do :P
21:10.49czrI'm pretty sure we'd be sorry if we'd read it
21:11.03alteregoOh no ..
21:11.07czrat least know we have hope that there actually is some documentation but "they" don't give it to us
21:11.51alteregoWell, I'm throwing this all on my blog.
21:11.58alteregoThat's what it's there for.
21:12.07tkoplease also file bugs
21:12.16alteregoAbout lack of documentation?
21:12.26alteregoOr the invalid icon blocking issue? ^_^
21:12.36alteregoI'm looking into that now by-the-way
21:13.07tkowhile blogs are good for public humiliation, bugs have *much* better chance getting injected into must-fix process
21:13.50alteregoOh, this particular blog entry is just documenting useful scriptable facilities in maemo.
21:13.50pc_speakerAre there any version of Maemo Mapper for OS2008?
21:13.56alteregoI'm not going to mention any bugs ;)
21:14.06alteregoOtherwise I'd have to edit the post when it's fixed.
21:14.11timelyxi think i lost my camera on the boat :(~
21:14.12czrheh alterego
21:16.10alteregoI think I've fixed all my qemu/glibc issues though.
21:16.15alteregoWith missing instructions etc.
21:16.26alteregoIt turned out to be quite a simple fix.
21:16.28czrtko, I've found it slightly frustrating lately when filing bugs, only to find after couple of days that the bugs in question actually have been already fixed, just not in any version that is available to the public or in any useful shape.
21:16.56czrreally annoying when about half of the bugs that you spend time describing and recreating and testing end up useless.
21:16.56tkoczr: you could file a bug about that too :)
21:17.05tkofwiw we share the pain
21:17.08czr"the whole development process is one large bug"? :-)
21:17.21czryeah. well. you know how it goes then :-)
21:18.28tkooh, are you saying sardine isn't useful? :-P
21:18.50czrI can't use it :-)
21:19.02alteregoNo no one can use it :P
21:19.06czrso yes, for me, it is :-)
21:19.21alteregoSure, you can use _parts_ of it.
21:19.28alteregoBut as one dist it's useless.
21:19.52alteregoAnd it's not like you can use all the relevant parts .. As there are files missing all over the place.
21:20.02alteregoDo you guys actually use `svn status`? ^_^
21:20.07l0kidoes anyone know how to create a screenshot via console on the OS08?
21:20.22alteregol0ki, osso-screenshot-tool
21:20.29alteregol0ki, you'll need to install it though.
21:20.34kaltsiit's just screenshot-tool these days
21:20.51alteregoNot the version installed on my tablet ..
21:20.51kaltsiavailable from the sdk repository
21:21.04alteregoSo it is.
21:21.12tkowe use sardine internally for hildon every day, so it ought to work
21:21.17l0kialterego, i knew of it. but i didn't find it for OS08
21:21.35alteregol0ki, it's in the SDK repo: 'apt-get install screenshot-tool'
21:21.53alteregoErm: chinook free non-free
21:22.01tkothough it currently builds on top of existing release which may or may not be publically available, which makes it not so useful for general public
21:22.33tkonot to mention the amount of testing sardine gets
21:22.40alteregoBy who?
21:22.45kaltsialterego preferably chinook free non-free, 'stage.m.o' might be an alias but 'repository.m.o' is the official way
21:22.51alteregoIf we could use it I'd test it ;)
21:23.08tkowhoever feels inclined to try it on top of only publically available resources
21:23.18alteregokaltsi, I'm just a lazy typer ;)
21:23.57czrlazyness is a virtue
21:24.20tkoin the beginning we used sardine on top of latest public image, but gradually shifted to using not-yet-published chinook release so testing for other combinations clearly decreased
21:24.28timelyxczr: you guys know about the cross referrence i have for sardine/chinook, right?
21:24.46alteregotimelyx, yup. I've been using it quite a bit today ;)
21:24.50czrtimelyx, kind of. yes :-)
21:25.05tkoand as there was no noise about sardine being broken there was little motivation to do anything about it either
21:25.20l0kialterego, please check it, mine says: "E: Couldn't find package screenshot-tool"
21:25.44timelyxl0ki: it's in chinook
21:25.52timelyxi know because the xref showed it a few hours ago
21:25.52alteregol0ki, have you added the repository I told you to?
21:25.57tko(at least in the beginning we did quite a bit of thinking to not screw up people trying sardine without access to latest internal builds)
21:26.21sp3000hrm, is maemo-mapper broken or something, or is it just me
21:26.26l0kialterego, ohh i didn't see that one
21:26.29l0kialterego, mom
21:26.32timelyxhi sp3000
21:26.35czrtko, in a few short words, could you explain the role/use of sardine then, in the current public state?
21:26.39alteregoWhat about my mom?!
21:26.41tkotimeless: is that linked somewhere in ?
21:26.50czralterego, even your mom doens't like ruby :-)
21:26.53sp3000evening timelyx
21:27.03alteregoI've not told my mom about Ruby
21:27.07tkoczr: access to bleeding edge development
21:27.10czralterego, I have
21:27.11alteregoShe's not ready for that kind of news.
21:27.12tkosubset of it
21:27.12sp3000oh, someone should port ramback, I'm lazy
21:27.24czrtko, well yes, but development of what exactly?
21:27.45alteregoczr, the sql stuff is a mirror of the GtkListStore that stores all of the notifications.
21:27.59timelyxl0ki: for the cross references, there's a file *sources.list in the root that lists the only repositories used to retrieve them
21:28.01czralterego, why does it want to store them, that was my question
21:28.04timelyxin this case
21:28.17alteregoczr, I believe it's a hack to allow external systems to introspect into notification system.
21:28.17czr_Monkey, mxr?
21:28.17_Monkeyi don't know, czr
21:28.28tkoczr: whatever is in sardine essentially. it's not so clearly defined/restricted. main focus is hildon (desktop, widgets etc.) but due to build dependencies we need to extend it somewhat
21:28.43czrtko, so you understand my question then :-)
21:28.55czrwhy would one want to use sardine?
21:28.57alteregoYeah .. Hildon is where it's at
21:29.00timelyx_Monkey mxr is mozilla cross reference, maintained by timeless, has a number of references including garage, sardine, and chinook
21:29.01_MonkeyOK, timelyx.
21:29.08czrtimeless, thanks :-)
21:29.31timelyxthat's bad
21:29.31tkoczr: the blue sky target is that whatever is open source would have bleeding edge in sardine
21:29.39timelyx_Monkey mxr =~s/s,h/s, h/
21:29.40sp3000it's all fish and bottled water to me :)
21:29.40_Monkeytimelyx: huh?
21:29.44tkoczr: open source; release early, release often
21:29.47timelyx_Monkey mxr =~ s/s,h/s, h/
21:29.47_MonkeyOK, timelyx
21:30.15tkoczr: and yes, not everyone cares.. or most. but it can be very useful if you do care
21:30.18czrtko, so in short, just a sandbox of something under development. which doesn't really make it clear whether it would be useful when reporting/testing for bugs for example.
21:30.41l0kibtw, i saw that the font in the preinstalled x-terminal is blurry again. can this get solved?
21:30.48alteregoFrom my perspective. Lack of documentation and good API documentation stops be from keeping ruby-maemo up-to-date. Ideally, for me, I'd be testing sardine features right now in preparation for the next OS release.
21:31.02tkoczr: bugs would be useful as that stuff will eventually end up in an official release
21:31.05czrso, suppose I find something that I suspect should be filed in the bugzilla. should I check sardine too in that case? and if I pull sardine on top of 4.0, what are the chances of breaking the whole sdk in that case?
21:31.12czrtko, ok
21:31.21timelyxi'd argue in favor of filing bugs even if you know it's fixed
21:31.26tkoit's like gnome jhbuild out of trunk, but with debian binary packages instead
21:31.27timelyxthat way if someone is wondering about a bug in a release
21:31.29timelyxthey can find it
21:31.48timelyxeven if you mark it RESOLVED FIXED targetmilestone:next
21:31.59sp3000l0ki: yeah, having a monospace font that doesn't suck would be a start :)
21:32.01czrtimelyx, yes. but it's not very productive when you never know whether your effort is of any use or not.
21:32.11czrtimelyx, maybe it's just me :-)
21:32.31alteregotko, would you mind finding out what the SQLITE stuff is about in hildon-desktop-notification? It's just a mirror of the GtkListStore that stores information on all the active notification objects.
21:32.33timelyxczr: i forced _|Nix|_ to file one such bug
21:32.34l0kisp3000, you can install your own fonts. would this help?
21:32.48tkoone of the most annoying assumptions I see is that people don't file bugs about stuff being developed because they assume developers are aware of it
21:32.52sp3000yes, if the version of terminal lets you change fonts
21:32.57timelyxtko: yeah
21:33.02timelyxwe need to break people of that assumption
21:33.14timelyxthis stupid FKB bug might be in that class
21:33.19alteregoDon't fix anything for a couple of years and they might get it ;)
21:33.21czrmy problem is more of the "file bug to find out that it has been already fixed, but not in any public place"
21:33.27tkoit's much easier to resolve a bug when you know it's already fixed than fix a fundamental problem a day before you're supposed to make a release
21:34.21tkoalterego: IIRC it's so that notifications can be persistent
21:34.30alteregoczr, the id keeps incrementing because there's an internal guint 'next_id'
21:34.31timelyxczr: don't worry about filing bugs for already fixed things
21:34.42timelyxif you file such bugs, they show people which things normal people will find
21:34.48czralterego, ok, so it is a global counter of notifications, as I suspected
21:34.48timelyxand they show other people that we really fix things
21:35.00tkoapp makes notification -> hildon-desktop shows it but user doesn't acknowledge -> reboot/out of battery/whatever -> reboot -> notifications still available
21:35.16tkobut kick jobi
21:35.19czrtko, this actually works?
21:35.33alteregoThat's what I thought. Thanks tko
21:35.48tkoczr: I vaguely recall seeing something like that at some point
21:35.53tkocompletely forgot the context
21:36.05czrhmm. are the systemnotes stored as well?
21:36.15czror just the proper notification events (the RPC with the zillion parameters)
21:36.19alteregoczr, every single notification is yes czr
21:36.29czrhmm. then it's easily enough tested on a device with dbus-send
21:36.33czralterego, care to test?
21:36.41czralterego, it feels better if you repeat it more ;-)
21:36.48tkosince I have nothing to do with hildon-desktop I'm very inclined to say RTFS! :-P
21:37.04alteregoThat's what I'm doing .. :P
21:37.12alteregotko, what do you work with then?
21:38.05tkofor system notes that wouldn't make sense.. system notes are meant for more critical things, you'd get a new system note after reboot if the reason for the original note still exists
21:38.17tkoalterego: widgets, hildon, gtk
21:38.43alteregotko, ah. I enjoyed bindings those in Ruby :)
21:38.57alteregoI was puzzled why the play sound is in hildon-1 though ..
21:39.00tkoI'm also the one to blame about the theme engine
21:39.17czrjobi, should there be an d-bus error generated when invalid parameters are passed with the fdo.notifications RPCs? now the server will just g_assert and never return a reply
21:39.26czr(the request will timeout on the client end after 15 seconds)
21:39.29alteregotko, I really like 2008 :) It looks super pretty. I think the more simple aesthetic is nice.
21:39.36tkoalterego: because the other team didn't want to provide similar API
21:39.36alteregoLooks more professional and clean.
21:39.49czrI don't yet like the program icons (the green/bright ones), otherwise it's pretty
21:40.01tkoalterego: you can thank tigert for the theme
21:40.15tkoit is quite nice, yes
21:40.25GeneralAntillesThe icons look like the other N-series icons.
21:40.33czralso the globe icon is somewhat out of style with all the other icons
21:40.39alteregoMaybe having the application icons in a similar style to the status indicator icons.
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21:41.20czrbut definitely better than in 2006/2007.
21:41.21alteregoI installed plankton on the device.
21:41.31alteregoIt looks horrible. Doesn't work properly either.
21:41.53GeneralAntillesAny word on disabling avatars in the Speed Contacts applet?
21:42.05sp3000-sh: diff: not found
21:42.28alteregoHmm .. Is diff part of busybox?
21:42.33tkogah, last time I asked tigert he said plankton is up to date.. grrr
21:42.43czrbtw, does anyone know whether the extra characters/accents thingy should work in the VKB in 4.0 sdk?
21:42.48p|there isn't "less" on 2008
21:43.03alteregoless isn't in busymox
21:43.06alteregomore is though
21:43.09czralterego, can you test in chinook whether your vkb will open anything from the accent button (second bottom on the right)
21:43.19p|on 2007 it exists
21:43.20suihkulokkialterego: did you try what version of plankton?
21:43.31sp3000p|: which 2007 is that
21:43.45alteregosuihkulokki, I just got it from the repo. I'll attempt to update hang on.
21:44.01p|sp3000: i'm trying os2008 now
21:44.02tkowith plankton I mean the one that's in stage / sardine
21:44.08p|on my n800
21:44.10sp3000alterego: available but not here
21:44.12alteregoOh. No this isn't in sardine.
21:44.21alteregoThis is chinook.
21:44.39czrThis is the police.
21:44.56alteregoczr, you want me to test what in the SDK?
21:45.02czralterego, yes please. just to verify
21:45.04tkotoday, the two should be same where it counts
21:45.13czrsince nobody else is interested in verifying this
21:46.22alteregoczr, what's the accent button?
21:46.32czropen input field so that VKB pops up.
21:46.51czrthen it's the second from the bottom in the right corner. the &%e one.
21:47.00czr&!e even
21:47.19alteregoI know the one.
21:47.40czrI'm having difficulty entering the euro symbol into an input field in the SDK.
21:47.42alteregomaempad perfect.
21:47.47czralterego, works?
21:47.56alteregoDoes f*ck all
21:48.05czrok. my experience as well.
21:48.08alteregoI guess it's a bug
21:48.15alteregoIt toggles though
21:48.16czrhow wonderful.
21:48.31czralterego which is nice, but pretty useless :-)
21:48.54czrI'll file a bug
21:49.05czrhaven't filed one for some days now
21:49.06alteregoI hope you're keeping count.
21:49.29czrneh, can't be bothered. I'll be reminded about them in two years when they finally decide to go over the old ones and ask for confirmation
21:50.16czr"This is fixed in libhildonfm2 1.9.41.  Don't ask me how and when this version
21:50.16czris available to who."
21:50.24czrnot this bug. result of another one that I posted.
21:50.43tkowe understand
21:50.46alteregoShouldn't these bugs be back ported?
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21:52.53czrtko, any suggestions where VKB related bugs for 4.0 sdk should be added under?
21:52.54_MonkeyDesktop is, like, a product
21:52.54czrindeed it is _Monkey, good girl.
21:53.13czrah. input method framework under 'system software'?
21:53.24czrah no. there's also 'virtual keyboard'
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21:55.21K`zanbora is 2007, right?
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21:56.46czrhmm. alterego left? damn. just when I was about to thank him
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21:57.00tkolooks like netsplit
21:57.00K`zanThat is why I post a general thank you every so often :-)
21:57.00czrheh K`zan
21:57.10tko(decent irc client would tell that.. /me running colloquy)
21:57.13czrI've disabled all the part/join thingies. too many channels/too much noise from them
21:57.23K`zanNet is pretty fragmented here ATM.  Lots of sites I can't get to and the dowload page on maemo loads a blank page...
21:57.24tkoI wish I could do that
21:57.40czrtko, timeless, posted a bug. hope you're happy now :-) ( )
21:57.49GeneralAntillesColloquy needs some options. :\
21:57.53gla55_disabling part/joins would leave me talking too much to guys who have left 60 mins ago
21:58.17czrneh. people will important questions will stick around :-)
21:58.21tkoczr: we'll reply in six months :-P
21:58.33K`zancar true :-)
21:58.44czrtko, well, I'm rolling an internal dice and wondering whether this one has already been fixed or not :-)
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22:01.33czrhmm. can't I find my bugs more easily than trying to remember the ids?
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22:01.33sage--ld: cannot find -licuuc
22:01.33czrI mean, if I didn't add them to a search/result list originally
22:01.33czralterego, wb :-)
22:01.34sage--anyone know what this is? what lib I am missing?
22:01.34tkoI actually do wonder how many bugs we do get reported that we've already fixed
22:01.34czralterego, thanks for the collab. bug number 2289
22:01.34alteregonetsplits ..
22:01.34alteregoI hate 'em.
22:01.34czrtko, you don't keep stats?
22:01.34czryou should.
22:01.34tkoif the number gets high enough we could use that as an argument to change things
22:01.34alteregoMore? Geez
22:01.34alteregoFlippin' hell.
22:01.34alteregoczr, no problem
22:01.35tkoczr: I don't, since I'm not looking at the whole bugzilla. but someone else might
22:02.07alteregoczr, you wanted me to test the notification persistance?
22:02.07czrtko, odds are no one does :-)
22:02.07czralterego, if you can be bothered
22:02.07alteregoI'll give it a go.
22:02.07czrit's not that important, just interesting
22:02.07tkotimeless does crazy stuff anyway, so he might :)
22:02.43czryou can blame him for me entering four bugs
22:02.43p|good night 2all !
22:03.01czrnight p with one half of an anonymous pipe
22:03.02tkowhile being annoying timeless does have good points sometimes :)
22:03.41czrbtw, I really like the browser now much better
22:03.50timelyxso what are you asking about?
22:03.52czrhaven't really used it much, but it feels much better
22:03.58czrbugs mainly.
22:04.13alteregoDon't you fond the VKB and the browser really buggy?
22:04.14czror the process surrounding public vs internal thingies
22:04.21alteregoOr just indisicive.
22:04.28czralterego, I'm running n810
22:04.39czrhaven't really used n800 much except for testing stuff out with 2008
22:04.48czrhaven't really used 810 much either
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22:04.56alteregoczr, wanna send it to me?
22:05.26czrit's a difficult question
22:05.58alteregoWell, not withstanding me not knowing how to make the notification pop back up again ..
22:06.04czra part of me does. just to get rid of the whole project as quickly as possible. yet, the other part keeps smacking the first one on the back of the head saying things like "stoopid, dontcha know what you signed" and silly things like that :-)
22:06.07alteregoI just opened a dialog and reset the device.
22:06.25czralterego, yup. that's what I'd have done too
22:06.42alteregoWell, I think it might be a bit more complicated :)
22:07.06czrmaybe only the full notifications will be saved
22:07.18czrbtw, I noticed with google that the full notification thingy is not maemo-specific
22:07.27czrso there are some other envs where it's also used.
22:07.38K`zanbora is 2007, right?
22:07.39*** join/#maemo l7 (
22:07.40alteregoThis crazy plan might actually work.
22:07.43czrthe note dialog and the infoprinty thing seem to be maemo-specific though
22:07.48GeneralAntillesYes, K`zan. ;)
22:07.51czrK`zan, bora is the sdk for 2007
22:07.53K`zanThankee Sir!
22:07.59*** join/#maemo fsmw (n=Fernando@
22:08.10czror codename for the version of the sdk for 2007
22:08.15alteregoczr, yeah. the freedesktop define a different status notification api under the same interface.
22:08.16GeneralAntillesThe netsplit scrolled the first answer. ;)
22:08.44czralterego, but I didn't find anything else that used the same member names as maemo does
22:08.50K`zanmaemo takes forever to load here, if it does :-(.
22:09.05czrK`zan, it's from savo. it will take time
22:09.17alteregoczr, well, that's kind of obvious. Those names were derived from previous maemo/hildon API's
22:09.22czrinternal joke, don't worry :-)
22:09.24czralterego, yup
22:09.39czralterego, what I don't understand is why they put the names under the fdo interface.
22:09.46czrsince the fdo docs say _nothing_ about the members
22:09.47K`zanOk, just leave me out in the cold :).  I'm just not happy to be as ignorant as I am :)
22:09.49alteregoyeah. that is interesting.
22:10.00czrK`zan, it's a location in finland.
22:10.06tkomy guess is that it's convenient for implementation
22:10.11alteregoMaybe freedesktop are adding some Nokia stuff.
22:10.15K`zanAh, thanks :-)!
22:10.18czrK`zan, people tend to slow down the vowels a lot. maemo sounds like a word that someone would say in savo
22:10.35czrtko, but you're not supposed to put stuff under namespaces that you don't control!
22:10.37alteregoI kind of pronounce it: mymo
22:10.56tkoczr: well, we're kind of flexible with that...
22:11.06czrtko, obviously :-)
22:11.10tkowe already mutilated gtk
22:11.13K`zanThe requested URL could not be retrieved
22:11.13K`zanWhile trying to retrieve the URL:
22:11.19K`zanConnection refused :-(.
22:11.25alteregoczr, kind of like us devs using
22:11.35K`zanI knew I should have snarfed copiously when the going was good :-).
22:11.45czrtko, don't worry. my material already provides point by point list of rules that should be used. it's funny that 4.0 manages to break more of them than 3.2 did.
22:11.46alteregoI wouldn't mind using org.maemo but is the default ns
22:12.13czrtko, but we call them "bugs in the material" now.
22:12.30czrwhich is semi-ironic
22:12.35alteregoczr, the icon specifier set to 5 is for progress bar.
22:12.37alterego4 is wait.
22:12.40tkowe tend to get tunnel vision when managements starts doing scheduling
22:12.43alteregoWhich means that 5 should be updatable.
22:12.44czrbut who am I to question the infinite wisdom of infinitely wise people
22:12.58czralterego, 5 is illegal
22:13.04alteregoNo it isn't.
22:13.09alteregoIt's OSSO_GN_PROGRESS
22:13.14czrno it isn't :-)
22:13.17czrtry it: dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteDialog string:"Hello world" uint32:5 string:''
22:13.35czr4 is OSSO_GN_PROGRESS
22:13.36alteregoThose are the icon values.
22:13.40czralterego, yeah. starting from _zero_.
22:13.43alteregoNo, 4 is OSSO_GN_WAIT
22:13.52K`zanI'll try again later.
22:13.53alteregoOh, carp
22:13.57alteregoYeah. You're right ;)
22:13.58czror carp.
22:14.03czralterego, of course I am :-)
22:14.18alteregoOkay. So 5 blocks right?
22:14.28czryou'll get a nice g_assert message too
22:14.32alteregoBecause it's invalid.
22:14.39czrwell. yes and no
22:14.42tkoczr: don't underestimate the power of the management^Wdark side :)
22:14.46alteregoWhat was the assertion?
22:14.50czrit's invalid yes. but in that case the server _should_ return an error immediately
22:15.03czralterego, hildon-desktop[16498]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - hildon_desktop_notification_manager_system_note_dialog: assertion `type >= 0 && type < 5' failed
22:15.25alteregoI'll look deeper then.
22:15.25czralterego, the request will timeout eventually and then dbus-send will get the error generated at client end
22:15.32czrtko, I don't
22:15.39czrtko, I've learned so much during this project.
22:15.48alteregoAnything good? ^_^
22:15.52czrnot really.
22:16.11alteregoOh, this really is weird.
22:16.24tkoczr: I can imagine :)
22:16.28czrother than I'm happy to see that people still have the energy to do this stuff :-)
22:16.45alteregoThe error is in code I can't see .. Oh well.
22:16.49tkoMDK had a good point about learning :)
22:17.02czralterego, yes, I couldn't find it either. time for timeless's mxr?
22:17.11czrtko, which was?
22:17.16czrmurder-death-kill? :-)
22:17.19alteregoczr, I looked there .. Couldn't find it.
22:17.45czr"hey I know, maybe it's in sardine"
22:17.55alteregoThat's actually where I'm looking.
22:18.00czrah, true.
22:18.02sp3000the fish are not what they seem
22:18.15tkoczr: oh, I'd missed that one
22:18.16alteregoMDK is Michael Dominic Kostrzewa
22:18.21alteregoThat's an interesting last name.
22:18.37tkoczr: but the point was that there's something to learn here
22:18.38timelyxczr: what stats of bugzilla interested you?
22:18.46alteregoI just got an email about a "ruby -> python" translator O_O
22:19.09czrtimelyx, not really. tko was wondering whether anyone tracks how many of the bugs reported in the public bugzilla have already been fixed internally.
22:19.26czrtimelyx, tko suggested that you'd be crazy enough to be interested in such things possibly :-)
22:19.46czralterego, see! and it wasn't even from me.. no one can read ruby! :-)
22:20.00alteregoEveryone can read it.
22:20.03alteregoIt's easy.
22:20.05czrbleh. filing bugs diverts time and effort from work.
22:20.07alteregoYour mom could understand :P
22:20.11czrI doubt that
22:20.13tkotimelyx: you know, how many already-fixed-but-not-publically-released bugs we receive.. if the number gets high enough someone might start thinking
22:20.20fish_sp3000: talking about me? ;)
22:20.56sp3000fish_: hmm, no :)
22:20.56czrshe still keeps sending emails which have empty subject, empty body and a letter.doc as the single attachment file in it
22:20.56tkoor not. though maybe it's just me thinking lobotomy is prerequisite for management
22:20.59czrfish get around.
22:21.12fish_i should stop irssi highlighting that
22:21.26czrsp3000, you don't have to go that far :-)
22:21.36czrtoo bad timo___ is sleeping. he's a good slappa.
22:22.01sp3000czr: but we don't share channels on this one :)
22:22.31*** join/#maemo playya (
22:22.34timelyxi don't really track that
22:22.46czrsp3000, ah. I see now :-)
22:22.47timelyxwe should probably try to figure out a way to track that
22:23.32czryou could also track the avg time it takes to someone at N to validate a public bug report
22:23.45czrand all kinds of other stuff that you should be doing already :-)
22:23.57czryou = plural you.
22:24.11sp3000you plural, you.
22:24.37czrint implies intelligence, no?
22:24.41czrsp3000, nooo. not me.
22:24.47czrI have my work cut out as it is :-)
22:24.50alteregoAnother if you're interested.
22:24.52tkoI was thinking 32 bit integer
22:24.55alteregoNo idea what it does though :)
22:25.22czrthat's the statusbar component that displays the small icons methinks
22:25.54timelyxinternally i have an xref of stage
22:25.56czronly provides one method, no args, no return value
22:26.03czrthe signal is weird though
22:26.07timelyxi need to figure out how to correctly sync that out w/o messing up
22:26.15timelyxanyway, i need to sleep
22:26.19czrnight timelyx
22:26.52czrbleh. I should really finish updating chapter 03 tonight
22:27.45alteregoczr, yeah. Just don't understand what the method is for.
22:31.01*** join/#maemo t_s_o (
22:31.41czrto refresh the statusbar in case new dynamic libraries are available for the statusbar applets?
22:31.44czrjust my guess
22:31.57czrI'm wondering more about the signal really.
22:32.01alteregoYeah .. I probably would have guessed the same thing.
22:32.27czrtoo bad they're not documented in the xml. a nice <!-- this method does and is useful for foo. see --> would be enough
22:32.36alteregoRight, lets see if my crazy hack will allow me to compile ruby1.9 for maemo.
22:32.50czrgood luck :-)
22:32.54alteregoBecause ruby2 comes out soon and I'll be pissed if I can't get it on the device.
22:32.56czrI'll try finishing up ch03
22:33.20*** join/#maemo Pio_ (n=sean@
22:34.47alteregoIT actually builds fine. It's the install that causes illegal instructions/segfaults/unknown isntructions.
22:35.01czrinstalling on the device?
22:35.06alteregoNo, make install
22:35.07czror the sdk/armel?
22:35.15_Monkeyarmel is the new architecture
22:35.20czr_Monkey, shut up
22:35.20_Monkeyczr: what?
22:35.36czralterego, does install use any ruby programs?
22:35.48czrah. there's the problem then
22:35.52czrfile a bug
22:36.03alteregoTo who? Myself?
22:36.09czryou've hit the infamous "use the ARMEL only for building software" bug
22:36.20czralterego, you want to know what's the issue?
22:36.29alteregoAnd qemu
22:36.41czrand atomic instructions
22:37.01czrruby either uses them internally or uses some functions from glibc (threads) that use them
22:37.10czrand they don't work with the version of qemu in the sdk
22:37.20czrsame problem happens with running python programs in armel side
22:37.30czron the device the instructions will work
22:37.47czrso. you must not use armel for testing software. only for building.
22:37.48alteregoYeah, I had to hack my ruby1.8 rules to not use ruby to install it :/
22:37.55czrironic, isn't it
22:37.57alteregoThat's what I'm trying to do ;)
22:38.10alteregox86 is fine for testing the sort of things I do.
22:38.15czrbut at least you're not in such bad of state as those people who are using build software written and driven by python ;-)
22:38.16alteregoAnd there's also the device.
22:38.26czrsince they can't even build the software on armel
22:39.18khertan"you're not in such bad of state as those people who are using build software written and driven by python" what do you mean ?
22:39.22czrso, if you can, try to avoid using anything but the devkit provided tools in build and install targets
22:39.24khertanczr ?
22:39.25_Monkeyit has been said that czr is not a bug.
22:39.38l0kiare there actual kernel sources out there for OS2008 to compile an own kernel?
22:39.39czrkhertan, running python on armel side will segfault
22:39.51khertanah ok :)
22:40.06czrkhertan, so if you're using a make replacement that is implemented in python, well then..
22:40.24khertan(sorry i m not native english)
22:40.26khertanoki thanks
22:40.32czrkhertan, that's ok. not many of us are
22:40.51khertani ve see also on the leaked 2008os that libglade is missing
22:41.12alteregoI actually think this hack is going to work :)
22:41.27alteregoMaybe I should write it up and let the python'rs know ;)
22:41.35czralterego, how did you fix it?
22:41.44khertanand i ve found any python hildondesktop binding too :)
22:41.47alteregocompiled ruby for the host architecture
22:42.03czralterego, right. that's one of the possibilities
22:42.05alteregoYou just make your build/install scripts use that version instead of the armel one
22:42.15czralterego, if you can, write it up on the devel ml
22:42.43czrI'm sure other people will run across the same issue anyway. you might mention that it's a shared problem to any building process that uses interpreted languages in general (more or less)
22:42.56tkokhertan: libglade missing?
22:42.56alteregoczr, I'll put it on my blog :)
22:43.00czrsince the interpreters themselves are normally quite complex
22:43.08czralterego, right. send an email to the blog then?
22:43.30czrsend an email with a link to the blog then? :-)
22:43.36czrthat's what I wanted to write
22:44.19t_s_ohrmf, i could have sworn i read a comparison between the recent garnetvm and foleo, but now i cant find it...
22:44.26*** join/#maemo pigeon_ (
22:44.29alteregoczr, know anything about extras-devel? I can't seem to upload anything. Authentication failure.
22:44.39czralterego, sry no.
22:44.46czralterego, I don't really do maemo development
22:44.49alteregoNo reply on the mailing list,.
22:44.54khertanlibglade was added to the final SDK:
22:44.56czralterego, I saw the mail though
22:45.29alteregoMy problem is, I'm a bit of an idiot so I'm probably not even doing it right.
22:46.00czrwhenever I get that feeling, I blame the system
22:46.09czrso I'm sure it's just lack of docs or something else.
22:46.32czrbesides, I think you've proven to people that you exceed the idiot-threshold by now :-)
22:46.32alteregoHmm .. This isn't good. It compiled perfectly before. Now it's bolting out again.
22:47.10alteregoI'm gonna start from a new tree.
22:47.38tkoeveryone's an idiot :)
22:47.48czrnp: James Holden: Idiot
22:47.54czrsomehow fits the mood too :-)
22:48.45tkoand if you try to get above the idiot-threshold, you're just asking for trouble
22:49.09alteregoYeah, you're probably right.
22:49.14alteregoI'll just stick to what I know ;)
22:49.35czrtko, trying yes. but if one gets above it without trying? :-)
22:49.42czr(by mistake that is :-)
22:49.43alteregoEspecially in programming. Try to be too clever and you just makes things too complicated for yourself.
22:50.09czrespecially after 6 months when you're trying to figure out what the hell you smoked when wrote the code originally
22:50.19alteregoHah, yeah.
22:50.21tkoczr: you could always get drunk
22:50.24czralthough I've started commenting like crazy in my own projects because of that
22:50.32czrtko, not always. alko went on strike :-(
22:50.50tkoI'm sure you can still get a ferry to tallinn
22:51.14czrhmm. true.
22:51.18alteregoDepends on the code. My ruby-maemo project has barely any comments because most of the extensions have a very simple design pattern. They are just C bindings afterall.
22:51.26czralthough the odds of me not making it back are quite high.
22:51.47czralterego, sure. I was speaking about my own projects of late.
22:51.56alteregoThough, the OSSO bindings do have comments because those bindings are complicated :S
22:52.01czrthey're mostly high-speed i/o-related algorithms
22:52.26alteregoYeah, probably a bit beyond me.
22:52.34tkoThe only alko with normal opening hours is in Maarianhamina :)
22:52.36czrthey're fun.
22:52.41alteregoI'd say I'm intemediate.
22:52.43czrtko, those bastards :-)
22:53.28alteregoIs Tampere the capital of Finland?
22:53.36czrsome people might think so
22:53.41czrbut not according to CIA at least.
22:53.51alteregoI thought it was Helsinki :x
22:53.57czrtampere is the fourth largest city is it?
22:53.59czralterego, it is
22:54.12czrtampere isn't far away from here though. nice small town
22:54.27alteregoI guess the world map must be a joke then ..
22:54.38czrwhich one?
22:54.39_Monkeyi think which one is it? :)
22:54.50alteregoWhy does the world clock in the IT's have Tampere as the timezone for Finland?
22:54.51czrbtw, who operates monkey?
22:54.57alteregoDon't know.
22:55.09czrthey really really really should monkey answer only directed questions
22:55.12gla55_alterego: they do some it dev at tampere at least
22:55.15czrit's getting annoying, esp at night.
22:55.16juh0i am from tampere ;)
22:55.46alteregoIs the dev that wrote the ITOS world clock from Tampere?
22:55.52kaltsihelsinki is available there too
22:55.52czrbleh. I noticed something irritating about world clock
22:56.04kaltsiI think it chooses the nearest city to the point you happen to click
22:56.05alteregoI can't seem to locate it by clicking on the map.
22:56.15czrif you by mistake point at some random location on the map, it will overwrite the "visting city/location" and there's no undo
22:56.22alteregoOh, I guess if they're close together that might explain it ..
22:56.24czrin this case the other location is on the other side of the world. bleh.
22:57.03czralso. it would be useful to display both of the location's clocks in the applet directly if enabled
22:57.48alteregoThat would be nice.
22:58.00kaltsior someone could implement a replacement clock applet
22:58.10czrthat too
22:58.35alteregoWouldn't it be better to improve the one already implemented?
22:58.53czrno. cause it wouldn't be done by volunteers
22:58.58alteregoThere's always someting to salvage ;)
22:59.01tkothat reminds I've forgotten to bitch about the clock applet not supporting a simple task as going to a conference
22:59.21kaltsithath dual-time clock applet is a good idea
22:59.26czrit doesn't support much of anything really. it's nice, but pretty useless
22:59.28alteregoYeah, I like that idea.
22:59.41alteregoGood at telling the current time.
22:59.46alteregoLooks pretty in OS2008 too ..
22:59.50czrit is pretty yes
22:59.56kaltsiadd a wrist-wrap and you got your ultimate geek watch!
23:00.06czrkaltsi, what about it? ever wanted to write a desktop applet for 2008? :-)
23:00.09alteregoBit bulky.
23:00.16czralterego, get a better wrist!
23:00.16alteregoNot to mention likely to be damaged ;)
23:00.25alteregoI can't I've been coding too long!
23:00.32czrget a bionic thingy
23:00.48alteregoI don't think that would help.
23:00.49kaltsiczr I'd like to do that but I'd have to find the time :)
23:00.55*** join/#maemo db48x (
23:00.56czr"do you have any wrists that would match the N810 in coloration in stock?"
23:00.57alteregoI suppose I'd be more likely to get a girlfriend if that got out though ..
23:01.07czrkaltsi, ironic isn't it. no time to implement a clock applet. I have the same problem.
23:01.27*** join/#maemo fer (
23:01.56czrhmm. all my screenshots just broke.
23:02.20ferHello all !
23:02.26alteregoSounds Jazzy
23:02.35czrit is quite so.
23:02.42*** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-D@unaffiliated/lopz)
23:03.03ferI need to mount a network share (nfs or samba) on a n800.... can anyone give me some help?
23:03.08czrit's especially designed to replace the copyright texts in all the source code examples once more if necessary.
23:03.11alteregoI'm estimating about a month until Ruby2.0 hits the world.
23:03.17ferI've been trying this for hours, but without successs...
23:03.24alteregoThis is great ..
23:03.37alteregoNow it segfaults _before_ it gets to the install phase ..
23:03.37kaltsihope that helps
23:03.48tkofer: it might start from compiling your own kernel...
23:04.02czralterego, it must be the reset-ahead feature we were discussing before today :-)
23:04.11alteregoYes, looks like it is.
23:04.20kaltsitko at least with IT OS 2007 & 8 it's not that difficult for NFS.. the modules are out there
23:04.42alteregoThis is frustrating.
23:04.46czrhmm. reminds me to update my out-of-tree-module-building-guide for 810
23:04.57alteregoI thought my hack was fool-proof .. I was wrong.
23:05.07czrit was only idiot-proof? :-)
23:05.19alteregoidiot > fool
23:05.21rghoshanyone know why there's no python module ?
23:05.34alteregorghosh, it wasn't compiled?
23:05.34czralterego, it might be longer, but is it greater? :-)
23:05.36ferkaatis, thanks! looks like it'sjust what I need :)
23:05.39rghoshah right thanks
23:05.39*** join/#maemo |tbb| (
23:05.53alteregoI actually know why.
23:05.54tkooh, there's always going to be even more ingenious idiot...
23:05.58kaltsihaha kaatis :) (that mean's "trashdump" in Finnish) :)
23:06.36czrkaltsi, I think he knows :-)
23:07.49rghoshin case anyone has succeeded in building it for os2008, i'd be glad to know
23:08.52alteregorghosh, talk to the maintainer. He probably just forgot to install libglade-dev package before compiling pygtk,.
23:09.58|tbb|is it possible to use motorolla s9 headset with the new os?
23:10.11alterego|tbb|, did it work with old OS?
23:10.57|tbb|with kagu hack u could use it as stereo headphone a2dp
23:11.09*** join/#maemo mzlplx (
23:11.10ferkaltsi, thank you very much. NFS mounting now works!
23:11.33_Monkeyhmmm... sshfs is enough for mgedmin_'s needs
23:11.34kaltsifer glad to hear that, I wrote the wiki for 2007 & 8 :)
23:11.56tkofer: didn't upgrade to os2008 yet? :)
23:12.28*** join/#maemo Ivan_Chelubeev (
23:13.36alteregoHack number II
23:14.33alteregoruby compilation is a bootstrap process it requires a 'miniruby' to compile ruby. That was breaking so I had to remove that rule and symlink my host ruby to miniruby for that target.
23:14.39alteregoThis is getting dirty ..
23:15.04alteregoActually, it was dirty when I started the host hack ..
23:15.43czralterego, now you understand the pain :-)
23:16.05czrmaybe if you make a wrapper for sbox that runs sbox in a separate chroot that will build host-only building tools? :-)
23:16.16czryou can call it jackinabox
23:17.00czror pitythefoolbox
23:17.06alteregoIt appears to be doing the job.
23:17.25alteregoI'm past the point of caring about that "touch wood" business now. I'm actually expecting it to break again soon :)
23:18.22alteregomake finished successfully ..
23:18.37czryup. that's when the problems really start ;-)
23:19.11alteregomake install broke
23:19.26alteregoBut this time, not in a fatal position. It broke whilst attempting to generate documentation.
23:19.37alteregoSo I don't care as that's disabled in my maemo builds :)
23:19.38czrdamn. I forgot to replicate my 'hello wold' bug into the new updated screenshot
23:19.51czr(yes, wold).
23:19.55alteregoWhich means .. It' workz!
23:20.06czralterego, cool
23:20.18czrbut only if you can write hello wold programs in it
23:20.20alteregoWonderful ruby VM goodness :)
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23:24.30czroh ${DEITY}. finished ch03.
23:25.24czralterego, there are 8 chapters in this material. and there are still two materials after this one :-)
23:25.27alteregoI'm working on a list of all the dbus signals
23:25.32alteregoI'll let you know when I've done it all.
23:25.33czrso the "nice" is a bit premature :-)
23:26.42czrat least this time I don't have "Hello Holdon" in any of the screenshots.
23:26.56czrhappened in one of the 1.0 versions that never luckily ended up on paper (caught it in time).
23:27.07czrfor some reason my hand always slips either into Hilton or Holdon
23:27.25derfMuscle memory.
23:27.25alteregoI have exactly the same problem ..
23:27.48czrhmm. one of the screenshots looks weird. bleh
23:28.14alteregoIn early ruby-maemo extension development I kept naming my extension shared objects the same as the maemo platform names.
23:28.20alteregoSo it was loading those instead :/
23:28.23alteregoNot good .
23:29.44derfMy particular favorite was the Vorbis xmms plugin, which was "".
23:29.54czreww :-)
23:30.15czrthat's like creating an small utility for czr's own use and call it 'c'.
23:30.17derfOne day autoconf decided that since the target name was, and since it had a -lvorbis in it, that it should tell gcc to link against the output file.
23:30.22*** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (
23:30.29czrevil vengeance upon all who try to write wrappers for that then :-)
23:30.38czrderf, autoconf goodness ;-)
23:30.54derfLike, it intentionally rewrote the command line to replace -lvorbis with a direct reference to the not-yet-created .so file.
23:31.15DaniloCesarsomeone knows a guitar tuner for maemo?
23:31.22derfFor some reason that didn't compile.
23:31.59alteregoThis isn't very pretty:
23:32.11doublecDaniloCesar: yes there is one
23:32.14doubleclet me get a link
23:32.48czralterego, haha
23:32.56alteregoczr, there's loads of API with the new Telepathy stuff.
23:32.59doublecDaniloCesar: download link on the right, plus source
23:33.04doublecI used it to tune my ukulele
23:33.12DaniloCesardoublec, thanks!
23:33.16czralterego, yeah, that's about the only d-bus thing that IS documented at some level in maemo
23:33.16*** part/#maemo mzlplx (
23:33.32czralterego, there was a separate telepathy/antipathy howto for 4.x
23:33.51ferkaltsi, any chance to have unionfs (filesystem) working on th n800/810 ?
23:33.57alteregoevolution-data-server? That's in maemo?
23:34.05czralterego, i think so.
23:34.14czror maybe not in maemo. but on device. maybe.
23:34.43alteregoOh well. There's no point in me doing this list.
23:34.58alteregoThe only relevant stuff is telepathy and hildon-desktop-notifications ..
23:35.08czralterego, also the prev xml wasn't a d-bus spec anyway
23:35.25alteregoczr, the application-manager? I know it was just ugly ;)
23:35.28kaltsifer I don't know, haven't heard of that before
23:35.41czryup. there's something to be said about "hacking around design mistakes" :-)
23:35.59alteregocan't they replace 'glob' with 'regexp' ^_^
23:36.05alteregoOr 'pattern'
23:36.09alteregoor 'match'
23:36.10czralterego, doesn't it make you feel glad the extension isn't '.debian'? :-)
23:36.27czripattern is the norm in those cases
23:36.38czror smt like that. it's not rocket science.
23:36.57alteregoWhat are the Nokia people like at accepting patches for that kind of stuff?
23:37.08alteregoI'd like to get involved in Hildon ..
23:37.34kaltsifer FUSE is known to work on the device if that's of any help, but it requires building a module and I suspect unionfs would require that too
23:39.23l0kiare there actual kernel sources out there for OS2008 to compile an own kernel?
23:39.40alteregol0ki, yes.
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23:40.46alteregoczr, you'd think if it's getting tacked onto the gnome project it'd be completely open, so I guess they'd like the input.
23:41.14l0kialterego, 2 more questions :) : 1st: what is the package name? 2nd: will it be necessary to compile 2 seperate kernel for n800 & n810?
23:42.16alteregol0ki, anything is possible.
23:42.26alteregoBut I can't find the kernel sources .. So it might not be possible.
23:42.34alteregoHeaders .. No problem ..
23:42.49kaltsikernel source package is kenrel-source-rx-34 or something like that
23:43.24l0kikaltsi, that was for the n800. i guessed kernel-sources-rx-44 but that package doesn't exist ;)
23:43.42alteregoIt may not be released yet.
23:43.43kaltsithere's no separate rx-44 kernel package so that might answer your 2nd question
23:43.54alteregoYeah .. Or it's the same :)
23:45.08l0kiso... a post to the mailing list or try and hit :)
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23:48.25kaltsithe rx-34-kernel package README says that it provides stuff for n800 and n810
23:49.35alteregoczr, doesn't look like the 'persistent' hint is actually used yet.
23:49.46czralterego, ah. ok
23:49.59czralterego, good to know I guess.
23:50.14czranyhow, I need some sleep. tomorrow is yet another deadline, bleh.
23:50.15alteregoIt's there but never gets used.
23:50.26alteregoHave a good night.
23:50.29czrthanks for the detective work!
23:50.31czryou too
23:50.56l0kikaltsi, thanks. i will give it a try :)
23:51.03kaltsinp :)
23:52.30czralterego, heh, someone else ran into the same problem btw on the ml
23:52.40czr"Failed creating my first .deb package of a python library for.."
23:53.03czr"and this is how the third age, the dark age, starts..."
23:53.04alteregoI must have accidentally deleted that one :x
23:53.34czrI wonder how long it will take for someone to answer to that one with a solution though.
23:54.04alteregoI would reply but I've got nothing to reply to ;)
23:54.14czrI can forward you the message :-)
23:54.26alteregoalterego at
23:55.31czroh. not alterego@sdf.lonestar.smt?
23:55.41alteregoSame inbox
23:55.48alteregoSo year
23:55.48czrah, well I already forwarded it
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23:56.48czranyhow, time for sleep. laters all ->
23:56.51alteregoI have a feeling the "persistant" stuff isn't working yet because it's not completely finished.
23:57.13alteregoThe close_all method doesn't seem to properly handle it ..
23:57.28alteregoOh wait ..
23:57.32alteregoNo, I'm just being an idiot again.
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