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| 08:11.34 | l4m3rx | Good morning |
| 08:15.10 | l4m3rx | any alternative ways to change the security code of n900 (except Settings>Device lock, witch strangly dosnt work in my case) |
| 08:15.13 | l4m3rx | ? |
| 08:21.37 | *** join/#maemo-ssu DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 08:46.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't work? |
| 08:46.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 08:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | how? |
| 08:46.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, afaik there's no alternative (yet?) |
| 08:47.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course you could do a full flash that should reset the lockcode afaik |
| 08:47.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | but maybe even that does NOT reset lockcode |
| 08:49.23 | l4m3rx | well... it used to work...i havent used it for a while (6-7+ months i guess). |
| 08:49.46 | l4m3rx | and not when i tried to change it , it all goes normal 'till in the end it tells me that the security code was not changed. |
| 08:50.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 08:51.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | you have to enter old code once and new code twice |
| 08:51.36 | l4m3rx | y... I enter the current code (default code atm) then it asks twise for the new one, and then it tells me 'security code not changed' :/ |
| 08:51.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | weird |
| 08:51.53 | l4m3rx | yeah :S |
| 08:52.24 | l4m3rx | i guess flashing will fix it ..but i really don't want to flash it :/ |
| 08:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess pali and freemangordon will both be interested in debugging this further |
| 08:52.57 | l4m3rx | what other data is stored in /dev/mtd1? (i'm asking so I know what i can screw up if I start poking around there) |
| 08:53.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | dev/mtd1 aka CAL is highly sensitive, you can honestly cause havoc when messing with it. It has all sorts of calibration data and device specific data |
| 08:54.13 | l4m3rx | worst case scenario? reflash or worse? |
| 08:54.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | like IMEI, BT IMEI, WLAN MAC, ALS sensor calibration data, bme stuff nobody knows what it is exactly |
| 08:54.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | worst case wlan and bt defunct |
| 08:55.25 | l4m3rx | I guess it will be better to ask pale & || freemangordon to point me where's the source that does the securty code change .... |
| 08:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | and osme other subsystems seriously flawed |
| 08:55.35 | l4m3rx | thanks for the info :) |
| 08:55.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 08:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cal |
| 08:55.43 | infobot | cal is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20465 |
| 08:55.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | google calvaria |
| 08:57.15 | l4m3rx | i will, thanks :) |
| 09:21.16 | jonwil | DocScrutinizer: ping |
| 09:21.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | pong |
| 09:21.24 | jonwil | DocScrutinizer05: ping |
| 09:21.35 | jonwil | Went out to look at USB repair today |
| 09:21.54 | jonwil | The one shop I wanted to go to (the one I linked before) has cloned the branch close to me (there is another one but its too far to get to) |
| 09:22.43 | jonwil | The other shop I went to, the guy said that since its working (which it is, it fully charged my N900 last night) he cant really do anything to it |
| 09:23.33 | jonwil | i.e. he wasn't going to do the usbfix unless there was some evidence of damage |
| 09:23.42 | jonwil | which as of now there isn't really |
| 09:24.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | idiot |
| 09:24.25 | jonwil | He said that he sees these all the time and has only seen very few broken USB ports (whether he meant N900s in particular or something more general than that I dont know) |
| 09:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | forget him |
| 09:25.27 | jonwil | well I dont know of any other shops that are easy to get to AND that claim to be able to do board-level work |
| 09:26.04 | jonwil | most of them only do replacement parts, not repairs |
| 09:26.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | search for somebody savvy to solder stuff |
| 09:26.21 | jonwil | I dont know of anyone like that |
| 09:26.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | radio amateur or whatever |
| 09:26.34 | l4m3rx | ^^ its not really board-level work, more like every-day soldering |
| 09:26.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 09:27.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will become board level repair when you really break it |
| 09:27.22 | merlin1991 | yep |
| 09:27.34 | merlin1991 | needs to find someone board level repair savvy :/ |
| 09:27.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | as already mentioned, probably even a goldsmith can do |
| 09:28.56 | l4m3rx | btw a bit offtopic , any1 have a clue how much does the n900 board ~ weights? |
| 09:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 09:29.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | <100g I guess |
| 09:29.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | nakes mental note that a scale is one of the things missing |
| 09:29.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes* |
| 09:31.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I once had a lab scale that been quite nady to e.g. "count" 1000s of SMD transistors |
| 09:31.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/nady/handy/ |
| 09:33.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: what's the problem? |
| 09:33.52 | merlin1991 | usb port on my sisters n900 only is fixed at 1 point, all contacts are broken |
| 09:34.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 09:34.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that requires a few more skills than simply soldering down the steel of the USB body |
| 09:34.30 | merlin1991 | I've got the replacement parts, but the contacts don't align |
| 09:34.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 09:35.07 | merlin1991 | I'm not 100% sure though, didn't yet remove the broken one from the board to check directly |
| 09:35.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 09:35.19 | merlin1991 | but to me it looks like they are not exactly fitting |
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| 09:35.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | check back with my scan of bare PCB |
| 09:35.57 | merlin1991 | link? |
| 09:36.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should be able to find a reference size, e.g. between the both holes in PCB |
| 09:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.cloud-7.de/*galery* |
| 09:36.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | or sth like that |
| 09:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | or *exploded* |
| 09:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/ |
| 09:37.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/platine_02.jpeg |
| 09:37.56 | l4m3rx | you guys scared me with this usb port talk :S |
| 09:38.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | good |
| 09:38.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~usbfix |
| 09:38.20 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) |
| 09:39.03 | merlin1991 | heh, the bare pcb looks wayyy different to what I guessed from the contacts I saw |
| 09:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> Fixing USB port, **BEFORE** and after it is to late.<< |
| 09:39.11 | merlin1991 | so yeah probably fits easily |
| 09:40.46 | l4m3rx | DocScrutinizer05, TBH i've been thinking about it (i have 2 working n900s from 2009) but I just don't trust myself with opening them ... but ur right... ignoring the problem will not make it go away. |
| 09:41.01 | merlin1991 | opening is the easy bit |
| 09:41.28 | l4m3rx | Probably.... but as with all things, the first time is scary. |
| 09:41.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | be gentle to the flex cable |
| 09:41.53 | l4m3rx | I'll probably order 3th n900 and try it on it first (i need n900 board anyway) |
| 09:42.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | everything else is easypeasy |
| 09:42.11 | merlin1991 | check one of the youtube vids if you're really scared |
| 09:42.51 | l4m3rx | My fears is not form braking the device or something. My fear comes from "if I brake both I'll need to use non n900 phone...witch is scary :P " |
| 09:42.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | gently unplug the connector of felex cable with your credit card |
| 09:42.59 | l4m3rx | s/fears/fear |
| 09:43.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and don't bend or pull it |
| 09:43.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | (the cable) |
| 09:44.01 | jonwil | so yeah google isn't showing up any other options for places that do proper phone repair (or general PCB repair for that matter) that are actually close enough to me to get to |
| 09:44.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I posted a link just one or two days ago |
| 09:44.18 | l4m3rx | thanks for the info :) I'll be extra cerful with the felex cable |
| 09:44.30 | jonwil | Quite a few places that do "replacement" of screens or other parts, but none that do repair |
| 09:44.59 | l4m3rx | jonwil , dont u have any friend who's bulding RC toys or something like that? |
| 09:45.02 | jonwil | nope |
| 09:45.09 | jonwil | I dont know anyone who does electronic stuff |
| 09:45.15 | l4m3rx | any1 with soldering expirience? |
| 09:45.16 | l4m3rx | oh :/ |
| 09:45.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: I just can't believe you can't find anybody knowing how to slder a pair of wires together |
| 09:46.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | poor Australia ;-P |
| 09:46.27 | l4m3rx | ohhhhh |
| 09:46.32 | l4m3rx | that explains it |
| 09:47.25 | jonwil | its not just finding someone that can solder, its finding someone that solders on electronics and knows how to avoid static discharge frying things |
| 09:47.37 | jonwil | There is a reason the Nokia service manual contains all those warnings :) |
| 09:47.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah |
| 09:47.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | they exaggerate |
| 09:49.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | a few basic measures like avoiding to wear those shoes that always give you electric shock when touching the door handle... That's absolutely sufficient |
| 09:49.50 | jonwil | These days it seems like everyone is just "its broken, replace it" rather than caring about repairs |
| 09:50.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, unfortunately that's the spirit of the times |
| 09:50.30 | l4m3rx | jonwil well... look it from the Nokia's side... if you repeir it , they'll not get shit. if you buy new one or new part - they'll get something . |
| 09:50.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | but there are opposing grassroot movements |
| 09:50.45 | jonwil | a lot of that is just because of how hard repairing today's electronics tends to be |
| 09:51.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 09:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | admittedly, but they also follow this scheme for washing maschines and everything |
| 09:51.49 | l4m3rx | ^ |
| 09:52.53 | jonwil | my washing machine is somewhat older and its a dead simple machine, no electronics at all, just simple electric knobs |
| 09:52.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder when they start disposing cars and getting new one when it has a scar in the varnish, or a broken lamp, or ashtray filled |
| 09:54.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually repairing the old mechanical process controllers is way harder than the electronic modern counterparts |
| 09:54.22 | jonwil | but even with warranty work these days many companies simply replace rather than repair |
| 09:54.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | (in washing machines) |
| 09:54.54 | jonwil | This isn't mechanical, its electric |
| 09:55.04 | jonwil | only mechanical part is the motor |
| 09:55.08 | jonwil | and drum |
| 09:55.14 | jonwil | and the valves that let the water in |
| 09:55.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, a motor turning slowly a stack of disks with resections... |
| 09:55.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I call that mechanics |
| 09:55.53 | jonwil | but more to the point, this machine is from the time when things were built to last |
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| 09:56.30 | jonwil | its an old Hoover washing machine and other than one broken water valve (which was trivial to replace) its still running as good as it did when my parents bought it all those years ago (before it was handed-down to me) |
| 09:56.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ersatzteilpartner.de/Ersatzteile/Programmschaltwerk/programmschaltwerk.jpg |
| 09:57.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I clearly qualify that thing as a mechanical controller |
| 09:58.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.secondware.de/technik/wasch/siemens/info/2002b.jpg |
| 09:58.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | works pretty much like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Musical_box_open.jpg |
| 09:59.27 | l4m3rx | btw some time ago, I remember there was a arduino + n900 robot project (Nimo if I remember correctly) is that project dead? And who ware the devs? |
| 09:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of |
| 10:01.18 | l4m3rx | http://www.slashgear.com/niko-n900-based-lego-robot-controlled-by-twitter-video-1878169/ |
| 10:01.27 | l4m3rx | but this was back in ~2010 |
| 10:02.04 | jonwil | even fairly simple stuff like wall ovens are getting all sorts of electronics these days |
| 10:02.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | awesome |
| 10:04.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | l4m3rx: I guess it been some Lego blocks controlled via USB hostmode. Nothing special in it |
| 10:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm nope, no plug in USB |
| 10:09.52 | l4m3rx | I'm more intrested in the software part and the connection between arduino and the n900. not the robot body itself. |
| 10:10.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess arduino is somehow linked to LAN, like N900 |
| 10:10.32 | l4m3rx | I'm working (it's in quite early stage) an dirigable , and the n900 board is perfect for it |
| 10:11.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | use USB hostmode for that |
| 10:11.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't think of a more convenient controller board than a complete N900 with USB attached peripherals |
| 10:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, I can: N810 ;-) |
| 10:12.09 | l4m3rx | y, usb will be in hostmode for sure (at least that's my idea) |
| 10:12.26 | l4m3rx | mmm n900 is better in this case... |
| 10:13.04 | l4m3rx | i can get fully working board for ~100-120euro ,and I relly save on weight and money for sensors and stuff from it |
| 10:13.41 | l4m3rx | gps,gsm,3g,32g memory + card and so on ...and ofc fully working linux witch makes everything easyer |
| 10:17.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | not without case |
| 10:18.00 | l4m3rx | antenas? |
| 10:18.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither GPS nor GSM/3G will work without the carefully tuned antennae in case |
| 10:18.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | nor WLAN/BT or FMTX |
| 10:19.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | and connecting screen and all the birdseed around it will get incredibly hard |
| 10:19.42 | l4m3rx | yes. if I can carry the weight i'm thinking of only removing the display and battery ,...and battery cover (If i remember correctly only the gps antena was in the display) |
| 10:20.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 doesn't even boot without display. sorry |
| 10:20.22 | l4m3rx | really? why?! |
| 10:20.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno |
| 10:20.55 | l4m3rx | hm.... any idea if its hardware or software problem? |
| 10:21.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even that |
| 10:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *guess* it's a sw problem, in kernel |
| 10:21.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even in NOLO already |
| 10:21.47 | l4m3rx | kernel issue sounds best |
| 10:22.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | now your call if you count NOLO as sw or hw |
| 10:22.33 | l4m3rx | if I can jump on it -> hw :D |
| 10:23.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you could, NOLO lives in NAND, pretty firmly established |
| 10:23.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 10:23.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you can't change it much |
| 10:23.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it's clearly not system |
| 10:23.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's rather pre-system |
| 10:23.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | kinda like BIOS |
| 10:24.21 | l4m3rx | I only need the display for booting? any clue what will happen if it disapears after that? |
| 10:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 10:24.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody did extensive tests on this niche usecase yet |
| 10:25.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you get away with keeping the flex PCB and only removing the (admittely heavy) LCD itself |
| 10:26.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, there's a number of other stuff on flex PCB |
| 10:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | front cam, LED, ALS, prox-sensor, mic, earpiece |
| 10:26.46 | l4m3rx | Its probably best if I start with the tech specs and see what exacly is connected there |
| 10:27.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | front cam, LED, ALS, prox-sensor, mic, earpiece, LCD, digitizer |
| 10:27.20 | l4m3rx | als= ? |
| 10:27.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think that's it - comprehensive list |
| 10:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Ambient Light |
| 10:28.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | LCD has I I2C or SPI interface for controlling, and of course backlight and video-bus. The I2C (if any) might barf up when dangling |
| 10:29.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus breaking other possibly essential stuff on main PCB |
| 10:29.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | on same bus |
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| 10:29.55 | l4m3rx | quite possible |
| 10:30.29 | jon_y | LCD needs a DIN25 port :) |
| 10:30.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | a wut? |
| 10:30.45 | jon_y | the PC serial port |
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| 10:31.06 | jon_y | fairly tolerant to brute behavior |
| 10:31.18 | jon_y | easy to connect and disconnect :) |
| 10:31.43 | jon_y | with 12V signaling |
| 10:32.56 | jon_y | well, it is at least serial like I2C or SPI |
| 10:33.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | l4m3rx: to be honest I don't know about booting with display flex cable completely removed. I just know device doesn't behave and eventually not even boots when flex cable broken |
| 10:33.11 | jon_y | does the LCD actually use the I2C addressing? |
| 10:34.40 | l4m3rx | DocScrutinizer05, well.... i'll give it a try and see what happens soon (just need to find more free time) |
| 10:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | get the schemaics. page 12 shows complete flex PCB |
| 10:35.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I2C_3 bus is on front cam at least |
| 10:35.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and ALS |
| 10:36.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | LCD has SPI |
| 10:37.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~schematics |
| 10:37.10 | infobot | methinks schematics is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic |
| 10:37.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 10:37.31 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: thanks |
| 10:37.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 10:37.51 | infobot | :), DocScrutinizer05 |
| 10:39.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | l4m3rx: you might want to check early boot via UART3 TTY console on testpads under battery |
| 10:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | l4m3rx: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking |
| 10:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#Debug_ports |
| 10:42.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking/serial_dump |
| 10:48.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | pali, freemangordon: ^^^ you might be interested in this |
| 11:17.30 | l4m3rx | lol... i found a guy selling fully working n900 for 35 euro Oo.... (he dosnt know the security code :D) |
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| 11:37.51 | jonwil | I suspect if you have write access to the CAL area somehow and can write some code to do it, its possible to replace the lock code without knowing the old one |
| 11:38.22 | jonwil | heck, all you would need is a new version of libdevlock.so hacked to disable the code check |
| 11:38.36 | jonwil | freemangordon: ping |
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| 12:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | all yiu really need is a CAL image ;-) |
| 12:49.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and a NAND CAL partition that has no bad blocks, so you could flash that image |
| 12:50.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | luckily bad blocks in NAND are rare |
| 12:51.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | we once had a 'game' on #maemo where some 50 users pasted their bad-blocks count as reported in dmesg or proc/*dunnowhat* or whatever. Most had zero, several had one, and one user had 14ish |
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| 12:52.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | l4m3rx: anyway, see the john-your-lockcode thread |
| 12:53.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually takes <3s |
| 12:53.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might need rescueOS to read out raw CAL content |
| 12:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 |
| 12:55.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB this instruction works for messybox grep only! |
| 12:56.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so maybe you should use "busybox grep -A 13 lock_code" instead of the plain "grep -A 13 lock_code" |
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| 13:08.55 | l4m3rx | I know the original code. |
| 13:09.01 | l4m3rx | s/original/current/ |
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