IRC log for #maemo-ssu on 20130726

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04:16.03kerioDocScrutinizer05: we can just "update" the stock mediaplayer in our repo
04:16.11keriodon't we have permission to redistribute (c)Nokia packages?
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06:32.56DocScrutinizer05yes, we have
06:33.17DocScrutinizer05we don't have control over the nokia repos though, afaik
06:34.12DocScrutinizer05we probably could repackage and ship via CSSU repo the stock player
06:34.51DocScrutinizer05but just for handling the dependencies that feels like overkill. Maybe because I had no coffee yet
06:40.38kerioDocScrutinizer05: "just for handling the dependencies"
06:40.45keriowhich is about 100% of what repo maintainership is about
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07:45.51kerioDocScrutinizer05: another good thing to do would be to rerelease packages with fixed dependencies
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08:05.21PaliTADA: It looks like we know what causing PA problems on some n900 devices
08:05.47Palipatch which adding nokia PA compatilbity with normal PA.
08:06.29Palicssu testers, look: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1362206#post1362206
08:06.33kerio:o
08:07.15Palinow need to understand why it is problem only on some n900 devices
08:07.36Paliand need to find another solution for compatibility with upstream non-nokia-hacked PA
08:07.56kerioPali: this reminds me
08:08.19keriooften, when i plug the charger in, i get the message regarding the current not being sufficient to charge
08:08.32keriobut it actually is
08:08.40Palikerio: update hald-addon-bme to last version
08:08.40kerioand the charge goes normally
08:08.45Paliand update also battery plugin
08:08.46keriok
08:08.54kerionot now tho, i'm on the bus
08:08.57PaliI pushed more patches to both
08:09.01keriowith no recent backups
08:09.03kerioyay
08:09.06kerioi liek patches
08:09.18Palibattery applet is in cssu-devel
08:09.26kerioit's just an ui issue, yes?
08:09.32Palino only
08:09.40Palialso in hald-addon-bme was some problems
08:09.40keriooh, k
08:10.54kerioalright
08:11.00Palibecause bq27200 chip do not report battery charging immediately, I added small hack to force hald-addon-bme to report battery charging for 10s after charger cable is attached
08:11.35Pali10s should be enought time to report if charger is can really charge battery or not
08:11.44kerioPali: do you reckon that it's possible to add a gconf key to force a certain value for the battery capacity?
08:12.16Palithere are no gconf keys for hald-addon-bme yet...
08:12.29keriooh, is it just the battery applet?
08:12.57kerioit would still work
08:12.58Paliyes, only battery applet has gconf key for using design capacity or not
08:13.04Palinothing more
08:13.14keriosomething like "override_battery_capacity"
08:13.43kerioan int, when present and different from -1 should override other sources of battery capacity
08:13.52kerioin mAh, i suppose
08:14.20kerioDocScrutinizer05: why do we measure battery capacity in mAh and not in coulombs?
08:49.21DocScrutinizer05because nobody knows how to spell Coulomb
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12:51.50keriolol
12:52.42kerioi mean, 1 C = 0.2(7)mAh
12:52.50kerioso you'd just have to divide things by 3
12:52.52keriopretty much
12:53.12kerioby 3.6, in fact
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15:31.23DocScrutinizer05if you consider better units, then use Joule alias Ws
15:32.20DocScrutinizer05since THAT owuld really be an improvement over that basically fundamentally flawed resp meaningless mAh that don't consider the VOLTAGE which will change during discharge
15:32.34DocScrutinizer05s/ow(wo/
15:32.39DocScrutinizer05meh
15:34.34DocScrutinizer05btw 1C=1As
15:35.11DocScrutinizer05=1000mAs = 1000/3600mAh
15:36.02DocScrutinizer05not even Physicians use Coulomb
15:38.18DocScrutinizer05btw if you wonder: the unit of that 3600 above is h/s
15:38.43DocScrutinizer05err s/h
15:39.44DocScrutinizer05= 60m/h * 60s/m
16:05.42sixwheeledbeastSo the key is breaking up as much of the mammoth metapackage as possible. How easy is this to implement?
16:05.51sixwheeledbeastAs for units of energy....
16:09.23sixwheeledbeastjoules are generally not used and coulombs are a larger number, Ah was invented as a lazy shorthand.
16:09.55sixwheeledbeastnot used for batteries as a unit of measure anyway
16:12.30sixwheeledbeast1A over 60 seconds is 60 coulombs, therefore in an hour 3600 coulombs have been used.
16:21.04sixwheeledbeastJoules or watt-seconds would be the accurate measure I agree, but it seems mAs/mAh/Ah are deemed accurate enough for us and easier to caluculate.
16:24.17*** join/#maemo-ssu fab (~bellet@bellet.info)
16:54.12DocScrutinizer05(MP) pretty easy
16:55.59DocScrutinizer05(easier to..) measure. bq27200 though has also Ws iirc
16:59.23DocScrutinizer05for system energy consumption (aka power) it's a simple conversion from A to W, since voltage is stabilized and known. The whole point is with battery, where you convert to those stabilized system voltages via a step-converter (not an LDO). Such step converter qould e.g eat 350mA@4.2V battery, or 420mA@3.5V, for feeding the identical system load
17:00.56DocScrutinizer05so obviously mAh is a bit nonsensical in that case. mWh though was way nicer since the mW figure is constant for 350*4.2 and 420*3.5
17:03.52DocScrutinizer050x23 - 0x22:  3021   SAE Available Energy High - Low Byte  (from bq27k-detail2)
17:10.58sixwheeledbeastIC. So is there a plan to take a pickaxe to mp soon?
17:12.19DocScrutinizer05I always push that but for unclear (to me) reasons the chief maintainers are reluctant
17:13.35DocScrutinizer05sure, as soon as you nuke MP completely, you need to make sure *all* your inter-package dependencies are comprehensive, complete and correct
17:14.13DocScrutinizer05and it seems most devels are lazy to take care about that detail of their package
17:16.02DocScrutinizer05and THAT part is not as easy, for the distro maintainers. Particularly when it's needed for dozens or hundreds of packages
17:24.01sixwheeledbeastI suppose it's a minefield of a job, but when done would provide huge flexibility. We need to look at this method of replacing these pkgs for FOSS alternatives. They have benefits and will be welcomed by the community. Having stock and FOSS-alt side-by-side is a pointless waste, other than for testing purposes.
17:49.31kerioDocScrutinizer05: why don't we use mWhs then?
17:50.49DocScrutinizer05side by side? you mean concurrently installed? nah, that's actually pointless
17:52.49keriowhy don't we just make nicocam lighter so it doesn't have to be preloaded?
17:53.29sixwheeledbeast"side by side" as in both stock and FOSS-alt installed at same time. Like we have now for OMP etc...
17:56.55DocScrutinizer05yes, that's an alternative for some apps, while it's a nogo for others
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22:47.14keriooh that fucking pali
22:47.31kerionow my battery applet can't report the correct full battery capacity
22:48.18kerioi don't fucking even
22:48.22Raimukerio: What why not?
22:48.27kerioand extras-devel doesn't even have old package versions
22:48.38kerioRaimu: because If using bme replacement do not watch for bq27x00_battery and rx51_battery drivers, but always use data from replacement hald-addon-bme
22:48.46kerioand guess what
22:48.51keriohald-addon-bme doesn't trust bq27k
22:48.56keriofor some dumb pali reason
22:49.13keriobattery.reporting.last_full = 1257
22:49.14keriobattery.reporting.current = 1404
22:49.16RaimuI am a little miffed by bmerep so far
22:49.21kerioDON'T YOU THINK THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE
22:49.30kerioi don't fucking even
22:49.47keriooh don't get me wrong, it's still good
22:49.49RaimuI get hilarious numbers like 1480 out of 1309 too.
22:49.53keriobut it's shit like this
22:50.08keriowhere pali just outright refuses to acknowledge that his initial reasoning was dead wrong
22:50.16keriobecause the battery design measured via resistor is simply useless
22:51.14RaimuAnd that 1480 out of 1309 of course is 100% on the battery widget
22:51.46RaimuIt only starts to go below "100" after the count drops from over that 1309
22:51.51kerioyeah
22:52.09kerioi feel that pali still hasn't understood that shit like that can come straight from bq27k
22:52.19kerioso when it's not reporting CI, you should blindly follow it
22:52.33keriobecause it's probably a lot more accurate than anything you'll calculate on your own
22:52.36kerioincluding the percentage
22:52.55kerioRaimu: initial versions had silly stuff like 139% of battery
22:53.52RaimuI thought the data I received from bq27k via those neat scripts was bloody good too.
22:54.17kerioyeah but it would confuse users if bq27k isn't calibrated
22:54.28RaimuMaybe
22:54.43kerioNO
22:54.47kerioit won't
22:54.57keriobecause you just say "bq27k isn't calibrated, click here for more info"
22:55.20RaimuI would totally use a batstatuswidget that relied upon bq27k for everything
22:55.40kerio+1
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22:58.01RaimuGnight now
23:12.10DocScrutinizer05*sigh*
23:13.07DocScrutinizer05while you could tolerate such stuff on strictly devel beta bme-replacement, it's kinda extremely scary for e.g PA
23:13.32DocScrutinizer05since with CSSU you don't have a choice. Unlike with bmerep
23:14.38DocScrutinizer05the results on a project from an extreme lack of manpower
23:15.23DocScrutinizer05you hardly ever get any peer review, and eventually everything makes it into the main branch
23:16.11DocScrutinizer05often a "one step ahead, two back" game
23:17.01DocScrutinizer05interestingly enough an abundance of developers can have same effect
23:17.27DocScrutinizer05see e.g. KDE4
23:18.49DocScrutinizer05and then there's the poettering effect. Yet to investigate
23:19.56DocScrutinizer05something along "one stubborn moron fucks it up for everybody, despite hundreds of sound rationales why this is a BAD THING[tm]"
23:22.37DocScrutinizer05but "HEY ITS for *FREEEEE*, you get this ABSOLUTELY FOR FREEEEEE!!1!11!!!"
23:25.28DocScrutinizer05http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0&t=3296
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23:30.22DocScrutinizer05I wonder if they will tell me same when they assrape me
23:31.28DocScrutinizer05NO MrMORON, I need to invest my valuable free time to get rid of it
23:32.47DocScrutinizer05probably a Balmer/Poettering doublefeature can't be beaten
23:33.40DocScrutinizer05"It's FREEEEE!" "...developer developers developers... "FREEEEEE" developers deveopler deve...REEEE
23:34.14drathirsorry for little join/outs but im setting up sasl...
23:34.19DocScrutinizer05hm, hidden at my side
23:34.21DocScrutinizer05;-P
23:40.30RST38hFree developers for the product you sell? =) This sound like Ouya
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23:45.51DocScrutinizer05RST38h: you don't know Balmer developers monkey dance?
23:46.26RST38hDoc: Oh that
23:46.40DocScrutinizer05http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE
23:46.54DocScrutinizer05add in this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0&t=3296
23:47.03DocScrutinizer05both on one stage! golden!
23:47.04RST38hDoc: When are they finally going to kick that uncle Fester out?
23:47.28RST38hDoc: What is that poettering doing with the bottle?
23:52.54DocScrutinizer05guess! he's ... poettering (SCNR)
23:53.18RST38hHas he destroyed anything important lately?
23:53.45DocScrutinizer05err, systemd resp /usr resp udev been latest I heard of
23:53.50RST38hOr is he busy standing at the stern of the GnomeOS, as it meets its iceberg?
23:54.07RST38hsystemd is old news
23:54.13DocScrutinizer05yep
23:54.35DocScrutinizer05meybe he finally found a chick
23:54.44DocScrutinizer05may*
23:56.16DocScrutinizer05or whatever his preferences
23:56.46RST38hwhich returns us to that bottle on video...
23:56.51DocScrutinizer05hehe
23:57.12RST38hprobably a toadstool balzam of some sort...

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