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| 09:16.52 | ToeiRei | Hi guys |
| 09:41.38 | ToeiRei | I just rediscovered my old N900 and flashed the last vanilla firmware... great to know that the phone is not dead. |
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| 09:46.49 | Estel_ | ToeiRei, flash latest u-boot, boot into kernel-power and install cssu-thumb and busybox-power, you will feel how "not dead" it is ;) |
| 09:48.38 | ToeiRei | bricked or really alive? |
| 09:48.40 | ToeiRei | ;) |
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| 10:35.55 | ToeiRei | looks like the n900 here doesn't want me to update to the latest cssu version |
| 10:37.29 | ToeiRei | is there any way to invoke the update via shell? |
| 10:43.49 | ToeiRei | nvm |
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| 11:17.42 | ToeiRei | Estel_: *-thumb = newer instruction set? |
| 12:11.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ToeiRei: basically yes |
| 12:12.16 | ToeiRei | just installed around a little... |
| 12:12.23 | ToeiRei | the device feels faster |
| 12:13.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB you can't run thumb based software on a standard kernel |
| 12:13.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will give you coredumps like mad |
| 12:13.50 | ToeiRei | yup |
| 12:13.57 | ToeiRei | kernel is updated already |
| 12:14.10 | ToeiRei | I'm just stuck with one package which seems to be a meta package |
| 12:14.14 | ToeiRei | mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 12:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, this isn't exactly simple stuff, and for sure not manageable via random apt-get install or even apt-get upgrade (DEPRECATED!) |
| 12:18.49 | ToeiRei | the phone itself yells for backup over USB cable... which is something I can't do |
| 12:19.02 | ToeiRei | I don't run Nokia jazz on my linux box |
| 12:19.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | mp-fremantle-community-pr *is* CSSU and replaces similar package that defines Nokia stock fremantle |
| 12:20.06 | ToeiRei | it says here: Updating of "Maemo 5 Community SSU Package(thumb)" not possible |
| 12:20.17 | ToeiRei | packages are missing |
| 12:20.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ToeiRei: when you already fail on that well known and well documented "problem", then you for sure want to reflash your device to stock fremantle |
| 12:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | then start *reading* about CSSU and how to install/update/handle it, before you even ponder using apt-get or cssu-thumb |
| 12:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU isn't exactly simple stuff to install and handle, and cssu-thumb is some layer on top of it, that introduces a whole bunch of new dependencies and caveats |
| 12:24.37 | ToeiRei | I noticed |
| 12:25.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | while we took great effort to make CSSU a click_and_profit experience for all users, cssu-thumb is definitely NOT manageable by HAM click-and-forget, and using apt-get without knowing exactly what you do will break CSSU most likely and cssu-thumb *for sure* |
| 12:25.37 | ToeiRei | I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 12:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the problem, basically |
| 12:26.01 | ToeiRei | and... if you don't mind, I'm trying to avoid HAM |
| 12:26.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's another problem |
| 12:26.35 | kerio | avoiding HAM is ok, just don't expect stuff to work without a hitch when using apt |
| 12:26.48 | kerio | and don't expect anything more than "best effort" help |
| 12:27.03 | ToeiRei | kerio: I'm not new to linux in general and to 'best effort' helpin |
| 12:27.06 | ToeiRei | +g |
| 12:27.19 | kerio | anyway, i think that at the moment, cssu-testing isn't installable without at least extras-testing enabled |
| 12:27.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically the main problem is when users think maemo was a normal debian alike distro |
| 12:27.24 | kerio | (yes, it's a packaging bug) |
| 12:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's NOT |
| 12:27.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least when it comes to apt and pkg management |
| 12:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather: packaging |
| 12:28.20 | ToeiRei | DocScrutinizer05, I did run gentoo embedded on my N900... so I do know a little what I am messing around with - in terms of breakage |
| 12:28.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, you don't |
| 12:29.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | your comment about mp-fremantle-community-pr shows that |
| 12:29.18 | ToeiRei | DocScrutinizer05, it's just missing dependencies regarding package management |
| 12:29.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just that maemo HAS NO proper dependencies at all |
| 12:30.09 | ToeiRei | that's another problem |
| 12:30.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather it has an additional layer of package properties on top of what apt is even seeing |
| 12:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | which only gets handled by HAM |
| 12:31.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it simple: apt-get dist-upgrade will nuke your system |
| 12:31.09 | ToeiRei | I know |
| 12:31.22 | ToeiRei | this is why the howto did mention that |
| 12:31.52 | kerio | maemo has proper dependencies almost all the time |
| 12:31.52 | ToeiRei | and it was just the missing repo being enabled... and we're rolling again. |
| 12:32.47 | ToeiRei | there has to be some sort of dependencies as HAM needs to know |
| 12:33.03 | ToeiRei | and... ham does install the package now |
| 12:34.11 | ToeiRei | update successfully applied. |
| 12:38.35 | ToeiRei | kerio: thanks for the help so far |
| 12:38.49 | ToeiRei | DocScrutinizer05: thank you too. |
| 12:39.00 | kerio | merlin1991: dude, this bug still needs fixing |
| 12:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 12:40.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsckng finally sanitize that insane dependency in cssu-enabler, renove that cruft that pretends ro uninstall CSSU, never worked, and creates nonsensical unjustified and "forbidden" dependencies |
| 12:44.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're trying to pull *all* users to CSSU and same time we break T installer so it doesn't work for the more prudent and reasonable half of users. How silly is *that*? |
| 12:45.01 | kerio | it's not about the enabler |
| 12:45.07 | kerio | it's about not having all the packages in the repo |
| 12:46.32 | ToeiRei | and that's where things are getting dang dirty. |
| 12:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, for all I know we got a new installer/enabler in cssu-t that allegedly allows uninstalling of cssu and depends on tools not available in stock maemo |
| 12:47.02 | kerio | mmh, i think that the missing dependency is on some library actually |
| 12:47.16 | kerio | but idk, i don't have an extra n900 to test this |
| 12:47.18 | kerio | *hint hint* |
| 12:47.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw that uninstall is proven and certified to not work and render user's system in a fubar state |
| 12:48.09 | kerio | ofc not, package maintainers aren't supposed to guarantee working downgrades |
| 12:48.21 | kerio | that's why apt tries really hard not to do that, and you have to force him to do so |
| 12:48.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: don't tell nonsense |
| 12:48.56 | ToeiRei | downgrades are evil wherever you do them |
| 12:48.58 | kerio | no, seriously, go read the debian policy |
| 12:49.07 | ToeiRei | yup |
| 12:49.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I give a fuck about that policy |
| 12:49.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | it#s pali's uninstall feature that broke stuff |
| 12:49.28 | kerio | you should, because half of our packages come straight from upstream |
| 12:49.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | blabla |
| 12:49.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's that relevant for cssu-enabler? |
| 12:50.05 | kerio | it's relevant because it's a *real* reason why "uninstalling" cssu is meaningless |
| 12:50.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 12:51.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | uninstalling cssu is as nonsensical as uninstalling KP |
| 12:51.34 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: so instead of going "pali, your uninstaller doesn't work, remove it" which may prompt him to go "ok, i'll fix it" |
| 12:51.49 | kerio | you can go "pali, your uninstaller can't work because of [section of debian policy] so remove it from cssu" |
| 12:52.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | or I go "see chanlog of <one year back>, <9 months back>..." |
| 12:53.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | pali is a gifted developer, but evidently not a very inspired distro maintainer |
| 12:54.00 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: he's very stubborn though |
| 12:54.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just don't get it how merlin1991 ever could include that to cssu |
| 13:00.51 | kerio | ToeiRei: btw, have you installed cssu-thumb? |
| 13:01.07 | ToeiRei | yup |
| 13:01.20 | ToeiRei | system seems to be working so far |
| 13:01.37 | ToeiRei | wlan works |
| 13:02.43 | kerio | the default gecko is still kinda old |
| 13:02.53 | kerio | but in cssu-thumb, fennec is actually usable |
| 13:03.07 | kerio | (however, it's still slower than microb) |
| 13:03.38 | kerio | you might also want the latest flash player (look it up on TMO) |
| 13:03.54 | kerio | and always remember to use backupmenu often |
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| 13:08.22 | ToeiRei | kerio: I do my backups every bigger change |
| 13:09.05 | ToeiRei | btw - do we have hotspot functionality? |
| 13:09.16 | kerio | in ad-hoc mode, but yeha |
| 13:09.17 | kerio | *yeah |
| 13:09.22 | kerio | install mobilehotspot or qtmobilehotspot |
| 13:09.37 | ToeiRei | got it already. It's just for kernel support |
| 13:09.44 | kerio | KP's got that |
| 13:10.00 | kerio | and also cssu-thumb's kernel, because it's KP with a different name |
| 13:10.06 | ToeiRei | at the moment I am using an android phone as AP for doing stuff |
| 13:10.21 | kerio | hm, android can't do adhoc afaik |
| 13:10.28 | kerio | like, not even connect |
| 13:11.20 | ToeiRei | well... it's sufficient for 5 devices for sharing internet and allowing ssh ;) |
| 13:12.05 | kerio | i mean, if you use your n900 as a hotspot, your android device won't be able to connect to it |
| 13:12.19 | ToeiRei | okay |
| 13:12.31 | ToeiRei | not the biggest issue |
| 13:12.38 | kerio | the firmware for the wifi module doesn't support hostap |
| 13:12.49 | ToeiRei | suspected that already |
| 13:13.12 | ToeiRei | at least the N900 is open enough to keep it alive |
| 13:14.49 | ToeiRei | in the android field, you have too many closed source additions with some devices |
| 13:14.59 | kerio | you could say that for the n900 too |
| 13:15.42 | ToeiRei | what's really closed for the n900? |
| 13:15.56 | kerio | ~closed |
| 13:15.56 | infobot | closed is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
| 13:16.24 | kerio | i feel that one of the most important parts is ICD2, the connection daemon |
| 13:19.12 | ToeiRei | okay. |
| 13:19.29 | ToeiRei | there's plenty |
| 13:19.32 | kerio | yep |
| 13:19.50 | ToeiRei | on android the motorola atrix 4g suffers pretty much too due to chipset issues |
| 13:19.57 | kerio | and it's kinda hard to reverse engineer the arm-only binaries |
| 13:19.58 | ToeiRei | as nvidia and moto*FAIL* |
| 13:20.02 | ToeiRei | yup |
| 13:20.30 | ToeiRei | we're currently doing a 3.1 kernel for us there with some hw acceleration |
| 13:20.33 | kerio | it's doable with stuff that has an x86 version |
| 13:20.39 | ToeiRei | indeed |
| 13:22.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | frowns at hotline's advice "bring in the borked HDD, we'll have a look at it and give you a new one" |
| 13:23.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | time for major dd actions, and fixing/patching fstab |
| 13:23.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 13:23.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell |
| 13:23.55 | ToeiRei | dd-rescue should give you a nice progress bar |
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| 14:15.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm yeah |
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