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| 08:29.30 | freemangordon | aapo: zeq faced that locales problem when he was trying to build glibc(stock) with gcc 4.7.2. So I guess it is some kind of a toolchain problem |
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| 08:45.51 | freemangordon | aapo: I guess some additional flag passed to the compiler is neede |
| 08:45.54 | freemangordon | d |
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| 08:54.24 | freemangordon | ~mirrors |
| 08:54.24 | infobot | well, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
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| 11:03.04 | kerio | Pali: fix your battery applet |
| 11:03.11 | kerio | it's not normal that i'm getting 110% capacity |
| 11:03.18 | kerio | i have to rmmod rx51_battery |
| 11:03.43 | Pali | kerio, are you using bme replacement and/or my battery applet |
| 11:03.47 | kerio | yep |
| 11:03.48 | kerio | to both |
| 11:03.53 | kerio | and i just changed battery |
| 11:03.57 | Pali | ok, then you need to run my debug version |
| 11:04.00 | Pali | I need logs |
| 11:04.00 | kerio | this one is ~1400 |
| 11:04.09 | kerio | Pali: it's a problem of rx51_battery |
| 11:04.20 | kerio | or, rather, it's a problem of your battery applet not displaying the data from bq27200 |
| 11:04.20 | Pali | I think that I fixed all > 100% bugs |
| 11:05.53 | Pali | http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/hald-addon-bme |
| 11:06.25 | kerio | hm, i'll have to reboot for that, right? |
| 11:06.35 | kerio | or somehow restart hal without rebooting, but i doubt it's possible |
| 11:06.36 | Pali | http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/status-area-applet-battery.so |
| 11:06.42 | Pali | update both and reboot |
| 11:06.50 | Pali | then log from hal is in /tmp/ |
| 11:06.54 | Pali | and from widget in syslog |
| 11:06.56 | kerio | Pali: i'll finish this calibration first, though |
| 11:07.01 | Pali | ok |
| 11:07.18 | kerio | this battery is surprisingly good |
| 11:07.40 | kerio | it's not the 1700mAh advertised, and not the 1600mAh that vi_ said that his battery had |
| 11:07.47 | kerio | but it's still 1420 |
| 11:08.06 | kerio | so ~150 more than the original bl-5j |
| 11:09.17 | kerio | Pali: does your bq24k module have a way to charge a bit more aggressively? |
| 11:09.49 | Pali | you can do anything with bq2415x_charger |
| 11:10.03 | Pali | you have exported all settings via sysfs |
| 11:10.15 | Pali | also you have access to bq registers |
| 11:10.19 | kerio | who decides how much to charge for each voltage? |
| 11:10.37 | Pali | I do not remember sysfs entires, look at datasheet |
| 11:10.43 | kerio | i see |
| 11:11.00 | kerio | btw, i almost never get to see the solid green led |
| 11:11.14 | kerio | and i realize that bme's "charge finished" is a lie, but it was a comforting lie |
| 11:12.01 | Pali | so wait |
| 11:12.16 | Pali | or change termination current sense to 100 or 150 |
| 11:12.37 | kerio | it's already at 150 |
| 11:22.57 | Pali | change it to 100 |
| 11:23.16 | Pali | I think I changed it to 100 in last kp52 build |
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| 11:28.19 | kerio | :O |
| 11:28.25 | kerio | there's a new kp52 build and you don't tell me |
| 11:28.30 | kerio | you monster |
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| 11:34.56 | Akuma | hello all. :) |
| 11:35.02 | kerio | 'lo |
| 11:35.50 | Akuma | i'm on n900 ssu repo/gpg key business regarding expired keys. :) |
| 11:35.54 | kerio | Pali, freemangordon: would kernel-power compile with gcc4.7-linaro? |
| 11:36.10 | Pali | no idea |
| 11:36.53 | kerio | Akuma: ohai |
| 11:36.59 | kerio | we were kinda waiting for you |
| 11:37.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer06: *poke* |
| 11:37.35 | Akuma | kerio: thank you for your patience. :) |
| 11:37.50 | Akuma | hopefully finnish timezone didn't mess my arrival time up. :) |
| 11:38.10 | kerio | Akuma: we did some tests, HAM will only accept system updates from a repository that uses a valid key in a certain list |
| 11:38.25 | freemangordon | kerio: probably it will, with some tweaks |
| 11:38.35 | Akuma | me i'm trying to locate the "MaemoSW Admin" key. it's not in the key ring we use for SSU business. |
| 11:38.35 | kerio | and for the key to be considered valid, it has to be not expired, and stored in the apt-secure keychain |
| 11:38.47 | kerio | oh, you already know, sorry |
| 11:39.16 | Akuma | we got a verbose mail from pali (thank you), which shed light on the "fifth key" thing |
| 11:39.43 | kerio | Akuma: it's something related to maemo.research.nokia.com (whatever that is), according to the description of the maemointernal-keyring package |
| 11:40.22 | kerio | (the package that installs that key) |
| 11:40.38 | Akuma | mm-hmm. that's our frontend server allright. |
| 11:40.42 | Akuma | looking around it a bit. |
| 11:41.19 | Akuma | (it probably just reroutes traffic somewhere else) |
| 11:41.22 | kerio | perhaps it's the key used to sign some testing or old repos |
| 11:43.59 | Akuma | yeah. we haven't done fremantle stuff at all during our time, just harmattan. if it was up to me, i'd just hand over the relevant packages to the community. :) |
| 11:44.17 | Pali | Akuma, hi, do you know if you can release new pr1.3.2 firmware if maemosw admin key could not be found? |
| 11:44.29 | kerio | Pali: as a flashable image? ugh :s |
| 11:44.37 | Pali | via pc-suite updater |
| 11:44.44 | kerio | double ugh :s :s |
| 11:44.49 | freemangordon | Pali: iirc pc-suite is windows-only |
| 11:45.05 | Pali | yes, but this is official way for updating images |
| 11:45.13 | Pali | we can of course flash image via maemo flasher |
| 11:45.46 | kerio | by the way, what happened to tablets-dev? |
| 11:46.00 | Akuma | pali: that is highly improbable due to the fact that it's now maintenance mode over here and most of the original crew is no longer around. |
| 11:46.09 | freemangordon | Pali: "we" can, but that won't work for an "ordinary" user. Esp if he is a non-windows user |
| 11:47.02 | kerio | freemangordon: the only problem would be with the osx non-"power" users |
| 11:47.09 | kerio | but those have iphones anyway :P |
| 11:47.12 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 11:48.18 | Pali | Akuma, how long will be downloads.maemo.nokia.com working? |
| 11:49.02 | Akuma | pali: my estimate is that at least as long as harmattan maintenance is around |
| 11:49.13 | Pali | tablets-dev.nokia.com where was all flashable firmwares and flasher tool is not down |
| 11:49.18 | Pali | *now |
| 11:49.25 | Akuma | as they're pretty intertwined. |
| 11:50.39 | freemangordon | Akuma: so, now your focus is to find the private "Maemo SW Admin" key? |
| 11:50.50 | Akuma | @pali: so at least an year, hopefully two. |
| 11:51.50 | Akuma | @freemangordon: yeah. however, that particular key is not where our signing keys usually reside. maemo.research.nokia.com is just a little frontend can that forwards traffic inside the system. |
| 11:52.47 | freemangordon | Akuma: I see. |
| 11:53.10 | Pali | Akuma, ok. but what happen then? It is possible to move ssu repositories to community servers (when nokia ssu will be down)? |
| 11:53.21 | kerio | probably legal stuff then |
| 11:53.29 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 11:53.35 | Akuma | there is this so called "ssu" server which has four gpg keys, the "The Nokia repository signing key <1-4>v1". |
| 11:53.55 | freemangordon | with all of them expired :) |
| 11:53.59 | kerio | and of course if we lose the control of the "downloads.maemo.nokia.com" domain, we won't have a working OTA update for vanilla devices |
| 11:54.14 | Pali | there are also public nokia keys "<1-4>v2" which expired too |
| 11:54.28 | Akuma | freemangordon: we have extended the expiry of the first key, but we fear that uploading it to repos will break the trust chain in Akamai and nobody gets anything d/l'd after that. :) |
| 11:54.36 | Akuma | so we can't do that until we're sure that wont happen |
| 11:55.10 | Akuma | @pali: I'd say a public petition to Nokia would be the best way to accomplish that. Other than that, I have no idea where fremantle code will end up. I have N900 myself, and I sure hope community could take over it's maintenance. |
| 11:56.04 | kerio | well, we already kinda have :) |
| 11:56.15 | Akuma | pali: it's odd, but we can't see those "v2" keys over here. |
| 11:56.22 | Akuma | so there must be another gpg cache somewhere around here. |
| 11:56.41 | Pali | v2 keys are exipired too, so are useless too |
| 11:57.13 | kerio | Akuma: does nokia keep backups? |
| 11:57.30 | Akuma | kerio: of course. it's a legitimacy thing. |
| 11:57.58 | Pali | Akuma, I wrote in mail that extending key on server (+ upload it to public gpg keyserver) is not enught. It is needed to update that key also to each n900 device. And I really do not have idea how to do that (without releasing new FW)... So belive that maemosw admin key will be found |
| 11:58.21 | kerio | well, there's a kludgy, kludgy way to do that |
| 11:58.31 | Akuma | pali: yeah, we've gone through a lot of options here, and we pretty much agree with what you said |
| 11:58.41 | jonwil | I just wish the "maemo license change requests" (on bugs.maemo.org) had actually lead to some code being opened up but it never did :( |
| 11:58.59 | freemangordon | Pali: if swadmin key cannot be found, n900 users are more or less screwed |
| 11:59.01 | kerio | Akuma: n900-fmtx-enabler is in extras, and preinstalled in quite a number of n900s |
| 11:59.23 | kerio | not all of them though, i think that it's missing in... uk and japan? |
| 11:59.28 | kerio | fmrx, sorry |
| 11:59.33 | freemangordon | kerio: but it have to be pushed via extras, not by nokia server |
| 11:59.48 | kerio | yeah, yeah |
| 11:59.49 | Akuma | i just probably have to go through most of the servers looking for any clues for gpg keyrings. |
| 11:59.50 | freemangordon | And I still have doubts this will work |
| 11:59.55 | kerio | and it's also a massive kludge :) |
| 12:00.38 | Akuma | that admin key would probably help a lot, if we can find it. we have like ~100 servers here. |
| 12:00.49 | freemangordon | Akuma: OMG :) |
| 12:01.14 | kerio | for serv in `cat servlist`; do ssh $serv find / -iname *.gpg ; done |
| 12:01.17 | kerio | easy |
| 12:01.23 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 12:01.29 | Akuma | yeah, and i could drive that through clusterssh or something. |
| 12:01.34 | freemangordon | kerio: what about the access? |
| 12:01.35 | Akuma | nice idea. :) |
| 12:01.37 | kerio | and in only a couple of years, we'll find our key |
| 12:01.50 | kerio | ooh, even better solution |
| 12:01.56 | kerio | use those 100 servers to bruteforce the secret key |
| 12:02.04 | kerio | 100 is a lot! |
| 12:02.09 | Akuma | ha ha. :) |
| 12:02.19 | Akuma | i'll get some coffee and start from the first server. |
| 12:03.16 | freemangordon | Akuma: any chance to contact someone from the ex-crew? I know they don't have reasons to be polite and helpful, but still |
| 12:05.25 | Akuma | @freemangordon: most if not all of them are working in Jolla (sailfish) nowadays. i doubt they will want to assist us. :( |
| 12:05.35 | kerio | but it's for the n900! |
| 12:05.45 | freemangordon | kerio: even worse ;) |
| 12:05.56 | kerio | nobody who ever used a n900 dislikes it |
| 12:06.04 | freemangordon | kerio: you are the past, don;t you get it? |
| 12:06.11 | freemangordon | :P |
| 12:06.47 | kerio | ~kerio |
| 12:06.47 | infobot | hmm... kerio is <DocScrutinizer05> kerio is right |
| 12:07.09 | kerio | infobot: no, kerio is <DocScrutinizer05> kerio is right <freemangordon> kerio: you are the past |
| 12:07.09 | infobot | cannot alter locked factoids, kerio |
| 12:07.16 | kerio | oh ffs, i locked it |
| 12:07.22 | freemangordon | change that to "kerio is the past" |
| 12:07.30 | kerio | nope |
| 12:07.40 | kerio | anyway, noise |
| 12:07.45 | freemangordon | yep |
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| 12:10.14 | jonwil | One of these days I will buy (or otherwise obtain) that copy of ARM Hex-Rays I need then I can REALLY bust this phone wide open... :) |
| 12:11.06 | freemangordon | hehe, count me in :P |
| 12:12.04 | jonwil | Only problem is that I dont have a couple thousand spare to buy it :) |
| 12:12.47 | freemangordon | jonwil: and unfortunately russian hackers are slow this time :D:D:D |
| 12:12.47 | kerio | ask them nicely :3 |
| 12:13.14 | freemangordon | kerio: won't work :( |
| 12:13.20 | kerio | is the arm version a particular one? |
| 12:13.23 | kerio | because hex-rays can be... found |
| 12:13.29 | freemangordon | only x86 |
| 12:13.59 | freemangordon | at least I am not aware of ARM hexrays being available on PB |
| 12:15.13 | freemangordon | jonwil: do you have any idea why locales don;t work when glibc is compiled with gcc 4.7.2? |
| 12:15.20 | jonwil | That I dont know |
| 12:15.28 | jonwil | I know nothing about glibc or locales |
| 12:15.35 | freemangordon | I see :) |
| 12:15.46 | jonwil | You could always pull out GDB and debug it :P |
| 12:15.59 | kerio | holy shit, there's a 105.49GB bounty for hex-rays arm on w.cd |
| 12:16.15 | freemangordon | and for some reason dgb symbols give me:0x40054360 in dcgettext () from /lib/libc.so.6 |
| 12:16.17 | freemangordon | 0x40054360 <dcgettext+28>: add sp, sp, #12 ; 0xc |
| 12:16.20 | freemangordon | (gdb) |
| 12:16.22 | kerio | it's fair to assume that it's not on the internet |
| 12:16.22 | freemangordon | Single stepping until exit from function dcgettext, |
| 12:16.24 | freemangordon | which has no line number information. |
| 12:16.59 | freemangordon | kerio: yep, wanted dead or alive :) |
| 12:17.55 | kerio | are you the one that put that request in? :o |
| 12:18.04 | freemangordon | no |
| 12:22.30 | Akuma | jonwil: btw, one of the biggest problems for nokia in releasing it's fremantle code in the open relates mostly to brand name. |
| 12:23.02 | kerio | really wants to say "it's ok, it's already gone down the shitter" but decides against doing so |
| 12:23.05 | kerio | oh crap |
| 12:23.16 | Akuma | if community would do the maintenance, i guess it would look too much that's it's actually nokia doing it |
| 12:23.32 | Akuma | so a smart way would have to be thought up to circumvent that in order to make it happen |
| 12:23.43 | kerio | Akuma: well, every update is clearly marked "Community SSU" |
| 12:23.53 | jonwil | yeah CSSU is exactly that |
| 12:24.04 | jonwil | Its 100% clear that anything is community and not Nokia |
| 12:24.31 | Akuma | yeah, i agree and to me and my colleagues it would be clear - but from that point it's still a long way in convincing the lead. |
| 12:24.34 | freemangordon | guys, I guess Akuma is aware of that. Not sure about the decision-makers :) |
| 12:25.00 | Akuma | maybe found a new brand name... like... jolla ;) |
| 12:25.10 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 12:26.18 | jonwil | Whats wrong with a press statement making it 100% clear that Nokia has nothing whatsoever to do with the N900 anymore and that the community has taken over maintanence of the device. And then direct any queries related to the N900, its software and its supporting servers to HiFo or whoever it is. |
| 12:26.36 | jonwil | Or maybe I have been watching too much "West Wing" to think that such tactics can work in the real world :P |
| 12:27.37 | jonwil | oh and wiki.maemo.org is down again :( |
| 12:27.48 | freemangordon | jonwil: AIUI The best we can do and hope is to somehow "sneak" some information to the n900 users that CSSU exists and to leave them decide |
| 12:28.22 | jonwil | I was talking about it in the context of "nokia is concerned that community updates look like nokia updates" |
| 12:28.27 | freemangordon | jonwil: look from Nokia's POV - who TF are freemangordon, Pali, merlin1991, jonwil, etc |
| 12:28.42 | jonwil | i.e. Nokia can avoid that by saying in public that they are not Nokia updates and that Nokia has nothing to do with them or endorse them |
| 12:28.46 | freemangordon | why should they trust us? |
| 12:28.46 | kerio | freemangordon: hildon foundation is a NFP |
| 12:29.16 | freemangordon | kerio: FMG is in no way related to HiFo ;) |
| 12:29.29 | freemangordon | legally speaking |
| 12:30.06 | kerio | that's why the inclusion of community-thumb and community-devel in the repos is wrong, imo |
| 12:34.50 | jonwil | I dont think we would get anywhere near the full codebase for the N900 even if there weren't these issues and Nokia was willing to open up more code. Too much of the code is encumbered in various ways (3rd party IP, regulatory concerns e.g. FCC etc, liability concerns) |
| 12:35.31 | Akuma | i reckon that creating a small shoestring budget company with a new brand name to handle it would go a long way in convincing nokia lead, but it might still not be enough and nokia might still ask for an astronomical price for the whole sheebang as it's now stepped over to commercial side.. |
| 12:39.05 | *** join/#maemo-ssu phr3akDom (~phr3ak@ip-213-220-198-105.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 12:39.19 | Pali | Akuma, are you still trying to find lost gpg key? |
| 12:40.42 | [Akuma] | pali: good and bad news regarding that: good news is that i found the key. bad news is that it's a BIFH (our build and integration system) related key. |
| 12:41.23 | Pali | why it is bad? |
| 12:42.25 | [Akuma] | BIFH is a critical part our infrastructure and we are not aware to the full extent of what this key will permit. |
| 12:44.59 | jonwil | Assuming Nokia doesn't distribute the private half of this key and assuming the repositories that get signed with this key do not get changed form the current state other than the re-signing, I dont know of anything that this key would permit that wouldn't already be possible if the other SSU keys weren't expired. |
| 12:45.07 | jonwil | But then again I dont work for Nokia :) |
| 12:46.21 | kerio | [Akuma]: you're going to *use* the key, not give it to us |
| 12:46.22 | freemangordon | [Akuma]: resigning the repo with it would permit nothing but a working repo AIUI |
| 12:46.30 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 12:46.37 | kerio | i mean, the public key is in every device, anyway |
| 12:46.46 | kerio | releasing a signature won't really help with bruteforcing it :) |
| 12:47.04 | freemangordon | kerio: the signature is on the devices too |
| 12:47.23 | kerio | freemangordon: i mean the signature of the Release file |
| 12:47.29 | freemangordon | aah, yes |
| 12:47.46 | [Akuma] | yeah, i agree. |
| 12:47.59 | kerio | of course you agree, you actually understand what's going on :) |
| 12:48.07 | freemangordon | :) |
| 12:48.15 | kerio | will /they/ agree? |
| 12:48.19 | jonwil | suspects there are several layers of PHB-style management that actually have to approve this |
| 12:48.36 | kerio | it's literally a command to run on the downloads.maemo.nokia.com web server |
| 12:48.38 | [Akuma] | kerio: exactly. i could use a nice mail which describes the process in its entirety to the mail chain that's been going under the desk. |
| 12:48.52 | freemangordon | s/approve/grok/ |
| 12:48.59 | freemangordon | jonwil: fixed for you :P |
| 12:50.09 | freemangordon | [Akuma]: well, our biggest fear was that the private was lost :) |
| 12:50.30 | kerio | freemangordon: talk for yourself |
| 12:50.39 | freemangordon | ok, mine biggest fear |
| 12:50.45 | freemangordon | kerio: better? |
| 12:50.46 | jonwil | in any case I would be willing to do everything in my power to aid any efforts in the area of code release (if it should happen at some point in the future) if it meant there was any possibility of being able to see (and modify/reuse/redistribute) the source code to the N900 connectivity UI widgets and network connectivity bits |
| 12:50.52 | kerio | i always stated "if nokia still has the private key and is willing to use it" |
| 12:52.15 | jonwil | But as that will probably never happen, I am resigned to staring at ARM ASM all day hoping I can figure out one more function in a shared library or one more data structure or one more piece of code |
| 12:52.54 | freemangordon | kerio: i don't think there is any other feasible option but to use it. given the "maintaince mode" n900 is in. i.e. forget about new firmware or something |
| 12:53.43 | [Akuma] | yeah, maintenance mode means all devs and testers out, only a small fraction of IT remains behind |
| 12:54.11 | [Akuma] | to wrap it up, so to speak |
| 12:55.10 | [Akuma] | creating a new PR would mean a lot of work anyway - branching, somebody had to do new enablers for SSU testing, they would probably want bugfixes in, etc. |
| 12:55.33 | jonwil | I think all we need is to show Nokia Management that re-signing these files wont allow someone to do anything dangerous |
| 12:56.23 | [Akuma] | yup, if such a document / mail would be present, it would help |
| 12:57.09 | jonwil | I think kerio is probably the best person to write such a document |
| 12:57.14 | kerio | wat |
| 12:57.24 | jonwil | not me anyway |
| 12:57.30 | kerio | not me |
| 12:57.35 | jonwil | ok |
| 12:57.37 | jonwil | who then? |
| 12:57.50 | kerio | *then who? |
| 12:58.02 | jonwil | HiFo? |
| 12:58.04 | freemangordon | [Akuma]: speaking of PR.. How do you think, is it possible Nokia to release a small PR, with a package informing n900 users of CSSU existence? |
| 12:58.18 | kerio | jonwil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Stole_the_Cookie_from_the_Cookie_Jar%3F |
| 12:58.21 | jonwil | freemangordon: Highly unlikely to happen |
| 12:58.29 | freemangordon | jonwil: I know, but still |
| 12:58.49 | kerio | freemangordon: hell, at this point we might as well ask for a straight move to cssu-stable |
| 12:58.56 | freemangordon | I guess asking on #maemo-ssu is still allowed :P |
| 12:58.58 | freemangordon | kerio: no |
| 12:59.07 | *** join/#maemo-ssu kolp (~quassel@212.255.237.18) |
| 12:59.07 | freemangordon | it should be the user to make the choice |
| 12:59.29 | kerio | they'll still get a choice, to update or not |
| 12:59.40 | jonwil | Any move by Nokia to even admit CSSU exists is potentially brand-diluting (per what Akuma said before) |
| 12:59.40 | [Akuma] | freemangordon: imagine the option of making a new PR in a situation when you have "would it be just easier to throw the towel in the ring" for the whole product as an option in the other scale dish... |
| 12:59.54 | freemangordon | [Akuma]: I see |
| 13:00.14 | [Akuma] | but that's just my personal view. |
| 13:00.18 | kerio | [Akuma]: think of it as "we can drop the hot potato on those guys over *there*" |
| 13:00.33 | jonwil | I don't think we should be even thinking about going to Nokia mgmt with anything other than the repo signing at this point |
| 13:00.35 | [Akuma] | yeah, i'd sure like to see community taking it over. |
| 13:00.39 | kerio | except that it's more like a cold, dried-out potato |
| 13:00.51 | freemangordon | kerio: hot? well... |
| 13:00.56 | freemangordon | jonwil: for sure |
| 13:01.02 | kerio | freemangordon: there's still plan b to give users a notification of the existance of cssu :) |
| 13:01.11 | freemangordon | kerio: ORLY? |
| 13:01.24 | freemangordon | :P |
| 13:01.28 | jonwil | FYI I would much rather have more code access than any kind of official push for CSSU but thats me (as a programmer) speaking :) |
| 13:01.32 | [Akuma] | anyway, i think i have to go buy some stereo jacks from the electrics store before it closes up. i like this channel, i'll pop back here to idle on monday. :) |
| 13:01.38 | kerio | yay |
| 13:01.43 | [Akuma] | thank you guys, youve been of great help and source of advice. |
| 13:01.53 | freemangordon | [Akuma]: thank you too |
| 13:01.59 | kerio | in the mean time, please ask whoever it is that could give you the authorization to change the signing key |
| 13:02.09 | kerio | if you can figure out who to ask |
| 13:02.25 | jonwil | Now we just need to find out who from community can draw up mail to Nokia mgmt in support of getting repos fixed |
| 13:02.25 | [Akuma] | i sent mail to pali and guys to describe the master sw key promises & peril in more elaborate detail |
| 13:02.31 | [Akuma] | so as to alleviate fears |
| 13:02.34 | kerio | has no idea of how big corporations are organized |
| 13:02.50 | kerio | jonwil: i'd say it should be someone speaking as an official representative of HiFo |
| 13:03.00 | freemangordon | kerio: you don;t want to know :) |
| 13:03.02 | [Akuma] | anyway, have a nice weekend all, catch you again monday. |
| 13:03.10 | kerio | cya [Akuma], thanks for your help! |
| 13:03.15 | freemangordon | bb |
| 13:03.33 | freemangordon | kerio: as doc explained it is the council, not hifo |
| 13:03.44 | kerio | ok, someone speaking as an official representative of the maemo council |
| 13:03.47 | jonwil | well I did a 6 month student internship for Motorola as part of my university degree (back when the original RAZR was considered "high-tech") so I have some idea of how these kinds of companies work |
| 13:05.52 | jonwil | I have also had experience in the past with trying to get a big company to share source code (in this case it was for a PC game title and not a phone and it was for limited private use by the community and not full open-sourcing) so I have a little understanding of the sorts of things big companies tend to want to do |
| 13:06.07 | jonwil | and what sorts of things they might be worried about when sharing code outside of their company |
| 13:06.30 | jonwil | That said Nokia is probably different to both Motorola and Electronic Arts |
| 13:06.36 | jonwil | and would have different processes for all this :) |
| 13:07.14 | jonwil | but if anyone knows of anything I can do that might in some small way help get more code released, I will do whatever it takes :P |
| 13:07.25 | jonwil | will go back to staring at ARM ASM now |
| 13:09.36 | jonwil | or I would if http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages worked and I could use it to figure out which target to fiddle with next |
| 13:10.07 | kerio | anyway, akuma is imba |
| 13:10.25 | kerio | at least, in sf3 third strike |
| 13:12.10 | merlin1991 | hm I don't get the reference |
| 13:12.42 | kerio | hey, where were you? |
| 13:13.00 | kerio | http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Akuma |
| 13:13.15 | merlin1991 | metalab, then sleep since around 6 am :D |
| 13:13.23 | kerio | i keep reading that as methlab |
| 13:13.45 | merlin1991 | I bet someone at some point will do or has done some meth in there :D |
| 13:18.38 | Skry | *cough* |
| 13:33.28 | kerio | ...hold on, why are we trying to get the nokia repo back to working again? |
| 13:33.33 | kerio | just for pr1.3.1? |
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| 13:49.21 | jonwil | Plenty of reasons to get the Nokia repos to work again. For example if I am messing with a replacement for some package and I want to reinstall the original for some reason, I need a working repo to do that :) |
| 13:51.48 | kerio | jonwil: apt-get won't complain |
| 13:51.52 | kerio | and neither will HAM, once we fix it |
| 13:52.02 | kerio | or if you disable the checks in redpill mode |
| 14:05.41 | kerio | Pali: is the new kp52 build still in the same place? |
| 14:05.59 | Pali | yes |
| 14:06.25 | Pali | my on hdd is jan 18 17:49 |
| 14:07.31 | Pali | kerio, I have new sudo and rootsh packages |
| 14:07.37 | Pali | which using /bin/su - |
| 14:07.48 | Pali | for spawning root shell |
| 14:08.03 | Pali | if you want you can try to use them :-) |
| 14:12.03 | kerio | trying to overwrite `/opt/boot/zImage-2.6.28.10-power52', which is the diverted version of `/boot/zImage-2.6.28.10-power52' |
| 14:12.04 | kerio | goddammit |
| 14:12.06 | kerio | what's wrong with that? |
| 14:12.07 | kerio | stupid dpkg |
| 14:12.22 | kerio | /opt/boot has the correct permissions |
| 14:14.14 | kerio | ...oh |
| 14:14.18 | kerio | you removed the diversion |
| 14:14.21 | kerio | you sneaky Pali you |
| 14:14.25 | kerio | er, i mean |
| 14:14.30 | kerio | you put it in /opt/boot already |
| 14:14.44 | Pali | yes |
| 14:14.47 | kerio | <3 |
| 14:14.55 | kerio | but what about multiboot users? |
| 14:47.07 | kerio | Pali: anyway, /sys/class/power_supply/rx51-battery/charge_full_design is 1257719, /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/charge_full is 1411399 |
| 14:47.10 | kerio | one of them is lying |
| 14:47.34 | freemangordon | kerio: why so? |
| 14:47.56 | freemangordon | rx51 get that from the battery |
| 14:48.59 | kerio | so the battery was designed to hold 1257mAh, but instead holds 1411 |
| 14:49.01 | kerio | ok |
| 14:49.05 | kerio | i'm cool with that |
| 14:49.22 | kerio | what i'm not cool with, is the battery applet showing what the battery is designed to hold instead of what the battery holds |
| 14:49.29 | freemangordon | well, at least it reports itself as 1260 |
| 14:49.36 | freemangordon | kerio: that's better :) |
| 14:50.13 | kerio | a calibrated bq27k should trump any other source of information |
| 14:50.30 | freemangordon | :nod: |
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| 15:18.30 | Pali | kerio, but bq27x calibration does not have to be done by one cycle |
| 15:18.57 | kerio | so? |
| 15:19.00 | Pali | by sone bq cycle it can change charge_full only by some % |
| 15:19.20 | kerio | do you think it's magically going to drop? |
| 15:19.27 | Pali | so if you change big battery with some with small desing capacity, one cycle is not enought |
| 15:19.49 | Pali | so then charge_full will not be correct after CI flag |
| 15:20.04 | kerio | i've already done two cycles |
| 15:20.16 | kerio | and charge_full went *up* with the last one |
| 15:20.25 | Pali | but I cannot read how many cycles you done in applet |
| 15:21.01 | kerio | so you just display a value that's wildly wrong? |
| 15:28.34 | Pali | rx51_battery reports value which is not wrong as value from bq27x |
| 15:29.05 | kerio | /sys/class/power_supply/rx51-battery/charge_full_design is 1257719 |
| 15:29.10 | kerio | that value is oh so very wrong |
| 15:30.12 | Pali | kerio, run bq27200.sh script for full discharge and full charge |
| 15:30.20 | Pali | to see if there are no big steps |
| 15:30.35 | kerio | where does rx51 take the values from, anyway? |
| 15:31.50 | Pali | from battery |
| 15:32.11 | kerio | how? |
| 15:32.14 | Pali | rx51_battery show values which reporting your battery |
| 15:32.26 | Pali | pins on your battery |
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| 15:32.50 | kerio | yeah, that's really trustworthy |
| 15:35.37 | Pali | kerio, if you have problems with > 100% send me logs |
| 15:35.53 | Pali | 110% is really bug |
| 15:37.18 | kerio | anyway, it's no big deal, i just have to remember to unload rx51_battery on every boot |
| 15:38.10 | Lava_Croft | I personally don't get all the interesting in the battery of the n900 |
| 15:38.13 | Lava_Croft | or it's readings |
| 15:38.22 | Lava_Croft | all the interest* |
| 15:45.57 | ShadowJK | I had batterylife anxiety because the stock meter was so random. Accurate readins and instant consumption readings make it easy to manage use to last a day |
| 15:46.43 | ShadowJK | Don't have to guess whether I can have streaming music the last 3 hours of work without running out of batt |
| 15:51.56 | chem|st | can someone put light on him?! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1317736#post1317736 CSSU during migration |
| 16:00.57 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: here? |
| 16:01.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 16:07.04 | *** join/#maemo-ssu infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 16:07.04 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu is Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version: Testing(2013-01-07): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo7.2; Stable(2013-01-10): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6 |
| 16:07.04 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
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| 17:19.16 | kerio | Pali: do you think you could make fiasco-image-update-ask usable with the terminal too? |
| 17:20.00 | Pali | sorry I hate ncurses |
| 17:20.01 | kerio | ^C is caught by softupd, and then dpkg complains because the postinst script of $whatever exited with an error |
| 17:20.07 | kerio | no, i meant something much simpler |
| 17:20.19 | Pali | kerio, provide patch |
| 17:20.25 | Pali | I can look at it if is ok |
| 17:20.32 | kerio | i don't know what, though |
| 17:20.38 | kerio | ^c to exit without flashing, maybe |
| 17:20.48 | kerio | but then there's no way to accept |
| 17:21.19 | Pali | WTF http://maemo.org/packages/ is down :-( |
| 17:21.25 | Pali | Service Temporarily Unavailable |
| 17:21.30 | Pali | The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. |
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| 20:43.36 | Pali | merlin1991, can you create sudo git repository on cssu? |
| 20:43.47 | Pali | I have patch which fix sudo gainroot |
| 20:44.00 | Pali | (gainroot script is part of sudo package) |
| 20:47.11 | kerio | Pali: "fix" what? and how? |
| 20:48.38 | Pali | kerio, look at gainroot script |
| 20:48.46 | Pali | run sudo gainroot |
| 20:48.51 | Pali | and then show your $HOME |
| 20:48.59 | Pali | or something else |
| 20:49.12 | Pali | "sudo sh" is *bad* usage |
| 20:49.25 | Pali | "sudo su -" is better |
| 20:49.31 | kerio | user@kerio900:~$ sudo gainroot |
| 20:49.32 | kerio | Enable RD mode if you want to break your device |
| 20:49.32 | Pali | or "sudo -i" |
| 20:49.36 | kerio | works fine for me |
| 20:49.48 | Pali | kerio, you do not have enabled R&D mode |
| 20:50.18 | kerio | no i don't |
| 20:50.20 | kerio | it's intended |
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| 21:01.37 | *** join/#maemo-ssu warfare (~falk@kilbeggan.fourecks.de) |
| 21:02.06 | kerio | warfare: community-testing from repository.maemo.org doesn't work, at the moment |
| 21:02.30 | kerio | warfare: http://community-testing.merlin1991.at/community-testing-light.install |
| 21:02.42 | kerio | it'll install a better mirror, and it'll actually work properly with HAM |
| 21:03.37 | warfare | I've got http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/community/ and -testing enabled. |
| 21:03.47 | kerio | hm |
| 21:03.51 | kerio | it's just HAM being stupid then |
| 21:03.59 | kerio | (disable the community repo, you won't need it) |
| 21:04.42 | kerio | put "red-pill-mode 1" "red-pill-mode-permanent 1" in ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager |
| 21:05.22 | kerio | it'll enable a SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECRET menu in HAM |
| 21:06.14 | warfare | So I don't have to create the matrix repo everytime? ;) |
| 21:06.30 | kerio | nope |
| 21:06.36 | kerio | does it work on PR1.3? :o |
| 21:06.39 | kerio | i thought it was disabled |
| 21:07.06 | kerio | anyway, due to repo mismatch, you need to disable "ignore wrong domains" in there |
| 21:07.10 | kerio | keep it disabled, it's just a hassle |
| 21:07.47 | kerio | it's basically an extra verification for each package, HAM will refuse to upgrade a package from a "domain" with a certain "trust" value to a "domain" with a lower one |
| 21:08.27 | kerio | ke-recv is in the nokia repos, trust 600, and you need to upgrade it to the cssu version, but it's not the correct repo so it has trust 0 |
| 21:09.41 | warfare | so HAM is way more than plain apt/aptitude. |
| 21:10.24 | kerio | yeah, it's a lot more |
| 21:10.27 | kerio | more annoying, more slow |
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| 21:15.28 | kerio | the only good thing that it does is that if you're updating a system package, it'll put the phone in some sort of lockdown and reboot afterwards |
| 21:25.01 | kerio | warfare: is it going? is it gone? |
| 21:25.11 | kerio | did your phone blow up? i heard it happens, sometimes |
| 21:26.59 | warfare | Still full cpu load with HAM. |
| 21:28.50 | kerio | oh right, more cpu usage |
| 21:30.52 | kerio | warfare: do you have extras-devel enabled? it brings HAM to a full 12 *minutes* of wall clock time halt on every catalogue refresh |
| 21:32.57 | warfare | kerio: no. |
| 21:33.36 | warfare | apt-worker is doing something. |
| 21:33.57 | kerio | yeah, apt-worker is what HAM actually uses to do stuff as root |
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| 21:36.25 | warfare | oh, I have. Now trying to disable it. |
| 21:40.19 | kerio | heh |
| 21:40.36 | warfare | try, try, try, try again ;) |
| 21:40.40 | kerio | eventually, i advise you to not use HAM except when doing system updates |
| 21:41.01 | warfare | I was using FAM most of the time. |
| 21:41.55 | kerio | also |
| 21:41.58 | kerio | ~fapman |
| 21:41.58 | infobot | rumour has it, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever |
| 21:42.18 | kerio | it keeps its own apt lists, for crying out loud |
| 21:42.27 | kerio | it's against any guideline on apt interfaces |
| 21:42.33 | warfare | oO |
| 21:43.03 | warfare | So just plain apt then? |
| 21:45.15 | kerio | sure, why not |
| 21:45.29 | kerio | i'm going to assume that you can operate a terminal ;) |
| 21:45.38 | warfare | ;) |
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| 21:50.50 | warfare | Still missing packages: upstart, system-services, status-menu-applet-profiles, osso-systemui-powerkeymenu... (most with a cssu in the version number) |
| 21:54.16 | kerio | hm |
| 21:54.21 | kerio | which repositories have you enabled? |
| 21:54.42 | kerio | also, is the "system upgrade" version 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo7.2+thumb0 ? |
| 21:55.07 | kerio | warfare: are you sure you *disabled* "ignore packages from wrong domains"? |
| 21:55.20 | kerio | you don't want to ignore them, they're good |
| 21:55.53 | warfare | kerio: Yes. but "osso-systemui-powerkeymenu" is nowhere in the community "free/binary-armel/Package" files. |
| 21:56.10 | warfare | s/community/&-cssu/ |
| 21:56.14 | kerio | warfare: you need to disable community and enable merlin1991's community-testing |
| 21:56.29 | kerio | cssu-thumb is built on top of cssu-testing |
| 21:57.01 | warfare | So, disable community & community-testing? |
| 21:57.24 | warfare | But yes, the version matches. |
| 21:59.01 | kerio | repository.maemo.org is offline at the moment |
| 21:59.23 | kerio | cssu-thumb is on merlin1991's server, and so is that awesome mirror that supports pdiffs and only has the latest versions of each package |
| 21:59.31 | kerio | there's a light mirror of extras-devel too |
| 21:59.42 | kerio | it turns 9MB updates into handful-of-kB ones |
| 21:59.57 | warfare | I installed cssu-testing from merlin1991's server. |
| 22:01.29 | kerio | and you're sure that you disabled the domain check in HAM's settings? |
| 22:01.38 | warfare | Ok, now I only enabled cssu-thumb and extras. |
| 22:01.44 | kerio | no, you need cssu-testing too |
| 22:01.48 | kerio | i swear |
| 22:01.57 | kerio | (and you don't need extras) |
| 22:02.11 | kerio | (so perhaps you could disable it so that HAM is a bit faster because it won't have to wait for the RMO timeout) |
| 22:02.37 | warfare | I already disabled all rmo repos and added the mirrors. |
| 22:02.50 | kerio | k |
| 22:03.02 | kerio | hm, there's a Log in HAM |
| 22:03.04 | kerio | in the menu |
| 22:03.11 | kerio | can you pastebin it? |
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| 22:06.12 | warfare | just a moment. |
| 22:11.28 | warfare | http://pastebin.com/esGDmJej |
| 22:12.02 | warfare | I changed cssu-testing repos (from merlin1991's mirror to skeiron.org) and now I'm only missing libidn11 |
| 22:14.04 | kerio | warfare: instead of that repo, use http://community-testing.merlin1991.at/ fremantle free non-free |
| 22:18.59 | warfare | .oO( every non-hacker person would have thrown the device out of the window by now ;) |
| 22:19.24 | kerio | non-hackers won't buy a n900 |
| 22:19.31 | Raimu | Pretty much that. |
| 22:19.32 | warfare | Also that. |
| 22:19.38 | kerio | non-hackers won't install cssu-thumb now |
| 22:19.39 | kerio | they'll wait |
| 22:19.46 | kerio | non-hackers won't install cssu-thumb |
| 22:20.37 | kerio | non-hackers should READ THE fine MANUAL |
| 22:21.17 | warfare | Thats what hackers read after they broke something. At least I do. |
| 22:21.21 | Raimu | Although to be honest I consider myself less a hacker and more an enlightened power user. |
| 22:22.31 | warfare | You were willing to spend $$$ on a phone with a complete unix environment. Thats no longer power user ;) |
| 22:23.55 | chem|st | warfare: people pay $$$ for iphones... they arent even worth the word user |
| 22:25.10 | kerio | i spent $$$ on it |
| 22:25.16 | kerio | and then it broke |
| 22:25.20 | kerio | and then i spent $ for another one |
| 22:25.26 | warfare | ;) |
| 22:25.31 | kerio | (and yes, that's in scale) |
| 22:27.12 | warfare | chem|st: depends, I like my iPhone in so far as it just works (most of the time) and I can live with the limitations. Same goes for my MacBook. But most other devices here are running linux (including the htpc and the dvr in the basement) |
| 22:28.57 | chem|st | warfare: I cannot live with it so everything is running *x system... my coffeemachine my TV my desktop my tablet my two phones my landline-phone my netbook... |
| 22:29.30 | warfare | I'd like to see the coffeemachine, please ;) |
| 22:29.34 | chem|st | collegue asking, oh is it android or windows... neither nor... |
| 22:29.58 | chem|st | warfare: it is an old saeco |
| 22:30.51 | chem|st | all coffeemachines I know run some linux based firmware, even my 10 year old sony has a linux kernel |
| 22:30.56 | kerio | warfare: well, hopefully now that you have a n900 you'll realize how wrong you were |
| 22:31.04 | kerio | is not smug at all |
| 22:31.45 | warfare | kerio: I still have my n810 ;) |
| 22:33.54 | warfare | *grah* libidn11 is hiding in extras-devel |
| 22:36.46 | warfare | So, extras-devel is required for cssu-thumb. |
| 22:38.51 | kerio | huh |
| 22:38.56 | kerio | freemangordon: did you know about this? |
| 22:39.04 | kerio | warfare: my, do we have a repository for YOU sir |
| 22:39.13 | kerio | warfare: http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/ fremantle free non-free |
| 22:39.14 | warfare | ;) |
| 22:39.24 | freemangordon | kerio: yes, and it comes with -testing i guess |
| 22:39.27 | warfare | Already enabled that. |
| 22:39.31 | kerio | yay |
| 22:39.45 | freemangordon | i suspect libcurl, but not sure |
| 22:39.46 | kerio | the hostname ones are different from the apt-mirror ones |
| 22:39.50 | kerio | they're better, in fact :) |
| 22:40.02 | warfare | freemangordon: yep, its libcurl and friends. |
| 22:40.24 | freemangordon | will pester luf when he appears :) |
| 22:40.49 | kerio | warfare: just be a man and keep extras-devel enabled |
| 22:40.55 | kerio | the light version is lighter on HAM too |
| 22:43.13 | warfare | and still has a 14M Packages file ;) |
| 22:43.52 | kerio | wat |
| 22:43.54 | kerio | no way |
| 22:43.58 | warfare | Ok, regular extras-devel has 25.6M |
| 22:44.05 | warfare | unpacked. |
| 22:44.05 | kerio | ...oh, you have no bzip2 installed, right |
| 22:44.17 | kerio | merlin1991: please also add Packages.gz |
| 22:44.21 | kerio | for our stocky friends |
| 22:44.31 | warfare | .gz's are there. |
| 22:44.45 | kerio | hm? |
| 22:45.20 | kerio | i see |
| 22:45.53 | kerio | the "light" repos are due to the fact that repository.maemo.org is stupid, and keeps every version of every package ever built |
| 22:47.48 | kerio | and have no pdiffs |
| 22:52.45 | warfare | looks like it is installing \o/ |
| 22:55.23 | kerio | \o/ |
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| 23:10.51 | warfare | update successful, device booted normally after the update. all is good. |
| 23:10.59 | warfare | kerio: thanks for your time! |
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