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| 00:18.54 | int_ua | freemangordon: no, I'll better ping here, not there :) |
| 00:20.53 | int_ua | My second N900 just died (softwarely) after my father who uses it pulled off microSD card and battery while it was switching off. Just booted into ubuntu, checking it. |
| 00:22.51 | int_ua | uboot just doesn't show power kernel and doesn't boot with the attached one |
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| 06:39.14 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu is Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo5.1; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo4.1 |
| 06:39.15 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 06:40.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~batteryfaq |
| 06:40.08 | infobot | from memory, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers |
| 06:49.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: can you check when infobot left chan? |
| 06:50.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | nm, found it in chanlog |
| 06:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: long story short - Openmoko EE got told from cell manuf (hitachi?) that keeping battery floating at charging end level will cause cell damage. |
| 06:54.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | bq24150 seems to think alike, and stops charging when charging current drops under a certain threshold. If configured correctly, bq24150 restarts charging when battery voltage has dropped to a certain level which is maybe equivalent to ~85% of charge |
| 06:54.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas with system drawing a considerable amount of power, the charging current will never drop under that threshold |
| 06:56.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus bme also jumping up and messing up things: on my t900 (KP46) bme restarts charging every 240s iirc. duration is like 30s. I gather bme restarts charging and bq24150 end it on detecting end-of-charge current threshold tripped |
| 06:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | (only when device idle and locked aka screen blanked) |
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| 13:30.47 | ShadowJK | charger, charge meter, and bme, all have different methods and thresholds for what is full |
| 13:32.26 | ShadowJK | also bme itself does fuel gauge metering (with a twist) mostly independently of "battery full" detection :) |
| 13:41.40 | Pali | anybody who can help me with GIO? |
| 13:41.42 | Pali | g_io_channel_new_file |
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| 15:27.22 | Pali | ok, problem with gio solved |
| 15:49.25 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: who should we trust? i vote we trust bq24150 |
| 15:49.43 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: otoh 85% kinda sucks :( |
| 15:57.05 | kerio | Pali: btw, your thing works perfectly :) |
| 15:57.17 | kerio | does anything *require* bme to start, during boot? |
| 15:57.34 | Pali | yes |
| 15:57.51 | Pali | I do not remember, but something like dsme... |
| 16:05.37 | kerio | Pali: btw, how does bq2415x-charger deal with charge termination? |
| 16:27.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: 85% seems what the designers evaluated as best value |
| 16:29.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually they use a voltage level which incidentally corellates to roughly 85percent on our cell |
| 16:30.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'd have to check if bq24150 allows config of that voltage level or if it's hardcoded |
| 16:31.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: you're free to do what bme does and force bq24150 into charge mode every 240s |
| 16:32.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | or maybe every 600s |
| 16:33.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | or you live with it and get used to replugging USB 90min before you unplug and leave house. As replugging also restarts charging |
| 16:34.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | look, there are contradicting goals: either treat battery as gently as possible or get a max charged battery at all times possible |
| 16:35.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | if you keep backlight on you get 2nd behaviour since current never trips charge end threshold |
| 16:36.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | with backlight off bq will eventually top charging |
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| 16:49.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: my laptop can keep the battery at 100% :( |
| 16:49.27 | kerio | modulo laws of thermodynamics ofc |
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| 16:52.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what?` reread my very last post, 2 resp 3 lines above this one |
| 16:53.33 | kerio | it doesn't destroy the battery! |
| 16:54.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't even run from battery when plugged to PSU |
| 16:54.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is plain impossible for a phone though |
| 16:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | since modem might eat up to >4A surges |
| 16:54.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing else but battery can handle that |
| 16:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why it basically runs from battery all time |
| 16:55.05 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hm, how quick is the handoff from PSU to battery? |
| 16:55.12 | kerio | it doesn't seem to cause problems |
| 16:55.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | and plugging it to PSU just means battery gets charged |
| 16:55.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: eh? please rephrase, as there's no such thing |
| 16:56.15 | kerio | you said that once the battery is charged, the laptop runs straight from the PSU |
| 16:56.44 | kerio | so how can i unplug the PSU and not get a powercycle due to a "brownout"? |
| 16:56.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I said it rns from PSU as long as there is any PSU |
| 16:57.02 | kerio | i mean, it's really quick |
| 16:57.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | because electric current is fast as lightning (literally) |
| 16:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and there are migic little things called diodes |
| 16:57.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | magic* |
| 16:58.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and other stuff that isn't suited for a phone with an intended 14 days of standby |
| 16:58.28 | kerio | :( |
| 16:58.37 | kerio | but my laptop used to get 8 hours! |
| 16:58.45 | kerio | that's close to 14 days |
| 16:59.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? you'd kill Elop with a flying N900 if it couldn't ever get beyond 8h battery life |
| 16:59.22 | kerio | heh |
| 16:59.29 | kerio | why elop? it wouldn't be his fault |
| 16:59.51 | kerio | wtf is time_to_empty_avg? |
| 17:00.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | time to empty battery on average power consumption as avaraged during last few minutes |
| 17:00.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | or seconds |
| 17:00.44 | kerio | TTE now claims i'm getting a bit more than 15 days of standby right now |
| 17:00.56 | kerio | TTE avg is 13 |
| 17:01.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm too tired for your trolling |
| 17:01.20 | kerio | haha now TTE avg is 66 |
| 17:01.59 | kerio | hrmpf, where's pali |
| 17:02.13 | kerio | 206940 is *not* a sensible value for time_to_empty_avg |
| 17:03.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~207000/60 |
| 17:03.08 | infobot | 3450 |
| 17:03.17 | kerio | it's either 2 days or 140 days |
| 17:03.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, 0.3mA |
| 17:03.39 | kerio | i'm using about 12mA now, so it could be in seconds |
| 17:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 17:04.14 | kerio | it's no biggie, i'll just charge it overnight |
| 17:04.22 | kerio | but i never saw those 14 days of standby |
| 17:04.33 | kerio | ...maybe because i can't resist using it |
| 17:04.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course not, since active times will come, while just you watched an idle time |
| 17:05.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | the values are of last 5s |
| 17:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | no matter if you read every 5s or once a min |
| 17:05.35 | kerio | ah fucking whatsapp |
| 17:08.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually the ONLY really reliable values of bq24150 are voltages |
| 17:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly EDV1 and EDVF |
| 17:09.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | and as it happens those are exactly the two most important thresholds for system to take action and warn resp shut down NOW |
| 17:09.51 | kerio | i thought bq27200 was really good |
| 17:10.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | it *usually* is |
| 17:10.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you understand what those values realy mean |
| 17:11.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | TTE is "**IF** your system would continue eating exactly as much power as during last 5s, it would drain battery in X minutes" |
| 17:12.24 | kerio | shutting down yappari made the TTE twice as long :D |
| 17:12.28 | kerio | i should probably shut down wifi too |
| 17:12.32 | kerio | and switch to 2G |
| 17:13.06 | kerio | i'm just kinda worried that, in 2G, it'll keep looking for my home network |
| 17:13.20 | kerio | (i have to go roaming in 2G) |
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| 17:57.35 | ShadowJK | There's a different value for time to empty in standby, STTE |
| 17:59.29 | ShadowJK | also a MLTTE, max load time to empty :) |
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| 18:04.16 | kerio | wtf is max load? |
| 18:05.12 | kerio | Pali: also the version check is *really* annoying! :'( |
| 18:05.32 | Pali | which version check? |
| 18:05.35 | Pali | where? |
| 18:05.44 | kerio | Pali: in the battery applet |
| 18:06.02 | kerio | you said it checks bme's dpkg version |
| 18:06.05 | Pali | and what is problem? |
| 18:06.09 | Pali | it is not working? |
| 18:06.16 | kerio | it's slow! :( |
| 18:06.59 | Pali | what? slow? speed of hildon-status-menu starting starting is same |
| 18:07.20 | kerio | it's really not |
| 18:07.26 | kerio | it visibly hangs, here |
| 18:07.28 | Pali | if not, then write program for testing... |
| 18:07.41 | Pali | try it on more n900 and show results |
| 18:07.48 | kerio | Pali: what do you need the version for, anyway? |
| 18:07.52 | kerio | hah, yeah right |
| 18:07.59 | kerio | ...to be fair it would mean i'd have more n900s... |
| 18:08.27 | Pali | I need to know if new version of hald-addon-bme is started or not |
| 18:08.49 | Pali | new is that from bme replacement project |
| 18:08.54 | kerio | hold on, i'm testing it |
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| 19:27.06 | ShadowJK | Heh, reading anandtech's article on intel's new enterprisey ssd |
| 19:27.51 | ShadowJK | intel's new method for mapping data is almost exactly the algorithm I thought up a couple years ago :p |
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| 22:15.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yoh |
| 22:16.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wish I had more time, for ex. to try Pali's awesome new "bme" |
| 22:20.23 | merlin1991 | first you need to guinepig the new testing which I should have built a day ago |
| 22:20.32 | merlin1991 | looks where the time went |
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