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| 00:06.29 | libreuser | hi. Is there an option (or something) to enable 'autologin' while using 'grsec'? |
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| 01:43.11 | raynold | ahh it's a wonderful day |
| 01:44.24 | chrfedora | Hi, I'm a bit stumped while reading about qdbus + Plasma. What would a call to the plasmashell context menu be like? I have tried qdbusviewer and qdbusviewer-qt5 and do not see it. |
| 01:47.10 | rdieter | chrfedora: I doubt that event is exposed to dbus (unless you have evidence or experience to the contrary?) |
| 01:49.01 | chrfedora | Oh, I thought since it was with the "Mouse Actions" menu in the Desktop Settings, that I could somehow access it and/or map it somewhere with a dbus command. |
| 01:49.19 | chrfedora | I doubt I have any experience at all. I'm just a newb poking around, so sorry for dumb questions. |
| 01:51.38 | chrfedora | Any suggestions on how to map this context menu to a shell command? I'm trying out touchegg, and while the event is indeed recognized there, I can't seem to use the plasmashell context menu. All other applications recognize touchegg, though... |
| 01:51.51 | chrfedora | the touch gesture, i meant* |
| 01:57.48 | Jucato | chrfedora: if you're trying to bring up the desktop context menu, maybe it might be better to just fake a right-click using something like xdotool |
| 01:58.18 | Jucato | not sure if that's the name of the tool but that's what i remember |
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| 09:05.40 | shtrb | Any sysadmins around ? the ssl cert for mirror.freedif.org conflict with en.esf.freedif.org |
| 09:06.59 | shtrb | *when trying to download neon iso |
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| 09:11.33 | shtrb | * common name in the cert is not the same as the domain |
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| 09:31.32 | lauritzt[m] | shtrb: Contact the mirror: https://freedif.org/contact-us |
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| 09:33.33 | lauritzt[m] | shtrb: The cert is valid for many subdomains (including mirror.freedif.org), see the Certificate Subject Alt Name. |
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| 09:46.41 | TheQuestionmark | I like the idea of that Babe music player, OmgUbuntu published an article about it. |
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| 10:32.00 | armin | ⢠armin@tek:~$ kwalletd5 --help |
| 10:32.01 | armin | ⢠armin@tek:~$ man kwalletd5 |
| 10:32.02 | armin | No manual entry for kwalletd5 |
| 10:32.03 | armin | ⢠armin@tek:~$ |
| 10:32.04 | armin | :( |
| 10:32.08 | armin | anyone a clue how to completely disable kwallet? |
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| 10:39.30 | armin | aha, turns out one can install kwalletmanager, which gives us a kwalletmanager5 program where one can finally disable kwallet. :-/ |
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| 10:42.06 | victorhck | Thanks a lot to KDE community!! #IloveFS |
| 10:42.09 | victorhck | :) |
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| 11:39.47 | BluesKaj | Hi all |
| 11:40.59 | shtrb | Hi BluesKaj |
| 11:41.23 | BluesKaj | hi shtrb |
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| 11:42.41 | shtrb | Whatsup ? |
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| 11:43.54 | BluesKaj | morning coffee here, and you? |
| 11:44.53 | shtrb | Tea and buiscuits and trying to get neon in vbox |
| 11:45.08 | shtrb | *working in vbox |
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| 11:46.56 | BluesKaj | I don't bother with VMs, there's always something important thet doesn't work IME |
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| 11:48.43 | shtrb | it's the first time I got BSOD from it |
| 11:48.47 | shtrb | never had before |
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| 11:51.19 | shtrb | I wonder If I can install neon on a usb key |
| 11:51.45 | BluesKaj | if I need to install another OS, then a dual boot is method i use, probly less convenient, but I can make it work more easily |
| 11:52.48 | asturm | shtrb: partitionmanager lvm function depends on newer version of lvm2 that you may not have had earlier |
| 11:52.56 | BluesKaj | i=isn;t neon just a modded kde desktop? |
| 11:53.13 | shtrb | BluesKaj yes |
| 11:53.20 | asturm | that makes no sense |
| 11:53.28 | asturm | you could say 'modded kubuntu' |
| 11:53.57 | BluesKaj | yeah |
| 11:53.57 | asturm | as for Plasma you would expect the reference implementation to be 'vanilla' |
| 11:53.58 | shtrb | I got what he meant , it's a flavor of ubuntu with a KDE specific stuff |
| 11:55.29 | shtrb | asturm , that is for the case when it didn't see my lvm parttions ? |
| 11:55.53 | asturm | yes |
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| 11:56.28 | shtrb | hopefully I will do a full upgrade in a few days and see if all go well |
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| 11:58.04 | shtrb | for me lvm version says : LVM version: Â Â Â Â 2.02.168(2) (2016-11-30) |
| 11:58.11 | shtrb | prior to an upgrade |
| 11:59.46 | asturm | that should be fine, actually |
| 11:59.54 | ashka | hi, I have a little issue with krunner and mouse focus... I have mouse focus set on "Follow mouse" (no precedence) with 0ms delay, but when I type something in krunner and press Enter quickly, and my mouse happen to be above the found entries list, krunner will open the entry that's under the mouse pointer instead of the first one found. using plasma 5.9.1-1 |
| 12:00.19 | shtrb | maybe there is something else that is broken on my system or not upgraded , will upgrade and see |
| 12:01.54 | ashka | setting focus stealing prevention on high and above will deny krunner to open when there's a window focused, and lower levels will not fix the issue I am having |
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| 12:04.23 | shtrb | Is it safe to backup kde/cache/local while they are logged in ? |
| 12:04.30 | shtrb | from a user dir |
| 12:04.36 | shtrb | or the user must log out ? |
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| 12:49.34 | callipygous | I run the enlightenment desktop and I've installed konqueror and dolphin but both of them do not show any icons |
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| 13:00.42 | j605 | set QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME |
| 13:01.06 | j605 | it was mentioned in the wiki somewhere, you can search for this variable |
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| 13:01.34 | j605 | oh they quit |
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| 13:46.39 | berndhs | morning all. I'm seeing an X-related problem, xcb error 3 (bad window), when starting things like kmail. ANyone know what that is ? |
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| 14:00.35 | pkenobi23 | Hello! My name is Laurentiu Piciu, I am from Romania and I am a 3rd year student in the Computer Science and Engineering Department (Politehnica University of Bucharest, Romania). |
| 14:02.49 | tx | something something royal family something something father (king) died leaving $80 million dollars in the bank |
| 14:02.54 | tx | something something western union? |
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| 14:09.03 | armin | @s |
| 14:09.08 | armin | damnit |
| 14:09.22 | armin | whyever win-enter by default does this in a terminal... |
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| 14:12.45 | rdieter | berndhs: unless you have some other concrete problem, those xcb warnings are mostly harmless |
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| 14:18.58 | berndhs | rdieter: the koncrete problem is kmail, it keeps running but you can't see it |
| 14:19.41 | tx | anyone have a problem with touchpad scrolling suddenly not working in chrome |
| 14:20.39 | rdieter | berndhs: ever use > 1 screen? |
| 14:21.06 | berndhs | yes I do now, is that a problem with xcb ? |
| 14:21.32 | rdieter | berndhs: no, but I've seen cases where an application sometimes tries to display on a screen that's no longer present, giving the symptom you describe |
| 14:21.57 | berndhs | hmm, both screens are on when I see that promblem |
| 14:22.13 | berndhs | this is under xfce, not kde desktop |
| 14:22.30 | berndhs | xfce tolerates qt windows just fine normally |
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| 14:32.09 | armin | so what happened to the amarok audio player? is it discontinued? |
| 14:36.03 | tosky | what do you mean by discontinued? |
| 14:36.12 | tosky | there has been no releases in a while |
| 14:36.19 | tosky | if anyone wants to work on it, the code is available |
| 14:36.55 | tosky | its repository was *not* moved to the "unmaintained" namespace |
| 14:37.01 | armin | tosky: that's just what i meant. there has been a beta release in august 2015 but that's the last post on https://amarok.kde.org/de |
| 14:37.16 | armin | okay |
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| 15:22.55 | shtrb | astrum , just did an upgrade now it seems to be working (it took some very long time period to scan but it was able to identify everything) |
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| 15:26.07 | asturm | great |
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| 15:38.59 | jantje | Hi. I did a new install of centos 7 with kde and the initial dekstop screen contains no icons at all. |
| 15:39.32 | jantje | but I'm a nis user with an nfs home directory (and still running gnome on another machine..) |
| 15:39.35 | shtrb | do you see any panels ? |
| 15:39.44 | jantje | no, no panels. |
| 15:39.56 | jantje | just the 'new activity' at the top right. |
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| 15:40.32 | shtrb | did this user had any KDE activity in the past ? |
| 15:40.40 | jantje | are there some default 'skel' files I can copy over? |
| 15:40.52 | jantje | No, I even tried emptying out the entire nis homedir, no difference. |
| 15:41.30 | jantje | (and that includes hidden directories) |
| 15:42.21 | shtrb | in order not to waste your time , you have installed the equivalent of kde-workspace ? |
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| 15:44.16 | jantje | kde-workspace-4.11.19-7.el7.x86_64 |
| 15:44.18 | jantje | yes |
| 15:44.28 | shtrb | also if you click alt+f2 does an app with a textbox appear ? |
| 15:46.22 | jantje | yes |
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| 15:48.08 | tosky | jantje: right click on the desktop, configure it and change the type of the desktop |
| 15:48.32 | tosky | from desktop to folderview |
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| 15:49.27 | jantje | Ok, that's done, still no icons though. |
| 15:49.34 | jantje | or do I have to restart kde |
| 15:49.55 | shtrb | %@RFFW%#@FW stupid keyboard |
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| 15:50.30 | shtrb | try to restart plasma / kde , if that doesn't work try add panel (right click ) |
| 15:50.49 | shtrb | keyboard got it's own life |
| 15:51.21 | jantje | ok, add panel is giving me what I want |
| 15:51.29 | tosky | jantje: did you change to folderview? There should be an section of the panel to configure the directory |
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| 15:52.04 | shtrb | if you widgets on the activity it will give your "icons" |
| 15:53.57 | jantje | I think it's set to Desktop by default, but that map is empty. Either way, I think I now have to find out how to get that default panel for new profiles. |
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| 16:13.45 | TheQuestionmark | Anyone else having the issue that Clementine won't connect to Spotify? |
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| 16:15.32 | tosky | TheQuestionmark: you should probably ask on Clementine's channels |
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| 16:16.40 | TheQuestionmark | Hmm... good point. Thanks tosky! |
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| 16:19.35 | troffasky | upgraded to 5.8.5 from backports PPA to address plasmashell CPU usage issue and I thought it was fixed |
| 16:19.36 | luc4 | Hello! Anyone else who can't see any cpu history in ksysguard? I tried to run as root and it seems to work properly. Tried to remove .config/ksysguardrc but nothing. |
| 16:20.16 | troffasky | this afternoon, laptop fan is going crazy and i see that plasmashell is eating CPU with icon animations again |
| 16:20.29 | leszek | troffasky: bug report link ? |
| 16:20.45 | troffasky | yeah, there is one but it says it's resolved |
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| 16:21.18 | leszek | troffasky: can you give me the link please |
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| 16:23.20 | zezu_ | Can anyone tell me if there is a separate setting to enable/handle right click -> context menu for panel task manager? Right now I get no context menu and I can't find a setting for it anywhere. |
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| 16:36.52 | troffasky | leszek https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356479 |
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| 16:41.34 | leszek | troffasky: the fix isn't in Plasma 5.8.5 |
| 16:41.43 | troffasky | evidently |
| 16:42.13 | leszek | it will land in 5.8.6 as you can see here it missed 5.8.5 by 3 days: https://cgit.kde.org/plasma-workspace.git/log/?h=Plasma/5.8 |
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| 16:57.10 | troffasky | will just do a daily login for now |
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| 17:03.23 | dontknow | https://dot.kde.org/2017/02/14/stay-free-software-city-munich |
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| 17:22.28 | kafloopascope | Is it correct to say the only way to hide a panel's shadows is to use a different plasma theme? |
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| 17:46.44 | Benrob0329[m] | how does one set a link to not open in an application? |
| 17:46.58 | Benrob0329[m] | because a youtube link just turned winebrowser into a for bomb |
| 17:47.05 | Benrob0329[m] | *fork bomb |
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| 17:50.14 | Benrob0329[m] | got it, just had to edit file associations |
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| 18:00.22 | armin | http://base.m2m.pm/2017-02-14-185531_1366x768_scrot.png |
| 18:00.29 | armin | pretty satisfied with this look |
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| 18:38.14 | joze | Hello, can I set a program in the Dolphin "Open with" menu for all files? For example an hex editor. I tried to set one in the File associations settings for All and All Files but it did nothing. |
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| 18:44.12 | joze | figured |
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| 19:02.06 | hololeap | is there a kdesudo equivalent for plasma 5? |
| 19:03.31 | rdieter | hololeap: plasma (still) includes kdesu |
| 19:03.53 | hololeap | rdieter: but does that use the su command or the sudo command behind the scenes? |
| 19:04.36 | rdieter | hololeap: I don't know the implementation details, maybe? does it matter as long as it works? |
| 19:04.55 | hololeap | "does it matter" is subjective. it matters to me |
| 19:04.56 | asturm | well apparently kubuntu keeps using kdesudo because kdesu does not work for them witout root account |
| 19:04.59 | rdieter | definitely doesn't use sudo by default (but I think it may be configurable to do so) |
| 19:05.14 | asturm | at least not properly |
| 19:05.30 | rdieter | hololeap: why not just use kdesudo then? |
| 19:05.35 | rdieter | (apparently you know that one) |
| 19:05.46 | rdieter | it should still work |
| 19:06.05 | hololeap | rdieter: i could try it. it was pulling in all the kde 4 libraries, so i figured that wasn't the best way to go |
| 19:06.28 | hololeap | eh... kdesu5 has a -c flag |
| 19:06.53 | hololeap | so maybe kdesu5 can use sudo behind the scenes |
| 19:07.26 | rdieter | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/sudo#kdesu |
| 19:07.31 | rdieter | hololeap: I think this still works ^^ |
| 19:07.43 | hololeap | rdieter: thanks |
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| 19:41.55 | armin | can anyone give me a hint what "system settings -> workspace -> workspace behaviour -> visual feedback for status changes" does? |
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| 19:55.54 | shtrb | does anyone remember how to add a button for the virtual keyboard ? |
| 19:56.03 | shtrb | tried via add widget but it isn't there |
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| 19:57.24 | rly_ | I have the rather interesting situation that I cannot see my X session (i.e. I see a black screen). Usually, I am connected via a secondary screen and use that one, but obviously without that screen connected I want to see the laptop screen. |
| 19:57.41 | rly_ | Why would KDE *ever* do that? |
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| 19:58.31 | rly_ | And, how do I fix this without resetting the whole X session? |
| 19:58.56 | shtrb | found , it's possible to drag it from the K menu |
| 19:59.26 | shtrb | rly_ , are you sure the screen isn't shut down ? |
| 19:59.43 | rly_ | shtrb: I am looking at the screen now in a console session. |
| 19:59.44 | shtrb | there was a feature of one of the laptop utils that will shut down the lvds |
| 20:00.10 | rly_ | shtrb: is there a difference between console and other graphis? |
| 20:00.12 | rly_ | shtrb: is there a difference between console and other graphics? |
| 20:00.28 | shtrb | no , then it will shut down the screen no tty and no graphics |
| 20:00.35 | rly_ | shtrb: in that case, no. |
| 20:00.54 | shtrb | is it just a blank screen on lets say tty2/7 or some blinking thing exist there ? |
| 20:01.22 | shtrb | also did you set show only external device |
| 20:01.36 | rly_ | shtrb: the blank screen is in what was previously the KDE session. |
| 20:01.47 | rly_ | shtrb: I believe I did. |
| 20:02.04 | rly_ | shtrb: by "I believe", I mean "100% sure". |
| 20:02.12 | shtrb | if you set display only only on external there is your answer |
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| 20:02.33 | rly_ | shtrb: no, because I did not change anything. |
| 20:02.37 | shtrb | you can set primary the screens if that is what you need but then you need to drag the windows |
| 20:02.56 | rly_ | shtrb: no, this is not how the feature is supposed to work. |
| 20:03.15 | rly_ | shtrb: the feature should enable the display again if one of them is disconnected. |
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| 20:03.27 | shtrb | maybe I didn't understand what you are trying to do |
| 20:03.49 | shtrb | so it is blank after you disconnected ? |
| 20:04.24 | rly_ | shtrb: it is blank before I disconnect, but should be unblank after the disconnect. |
| 20:04.30 | rly_ | shtrb: that's what it has always done. |
| 20:05.29 | rly_ | shtrb: so, now, I would like to run a command on the command line, which will just reset it. |
| 20:06.05 | rly_ | shtrb: my KDE taskbar also crashes 5 times per day. |
| 20:06.16 | rly_ | shtrb: specifically when I Alt-Tab. |
| 20:06.27 | shtrb | recent version ? |
| 20:07.07 | shtrb | have you filed a bug report sent a bribe to someone to check it ;-) |
| 20:07.21 | shtrb | *or sent a bribe to someone |
| 20:07.36 | rly_ | shtrb: how can I check from a non-graphical environment? |
| 20:07.54 | shtrb | xrandr |
| 20:08.00 | rly_ | shtrb: kate --version crashes on the command line. |
| 20:08.07 | rly_ | shtrb: it "aborts". |
| 20:08.21 | shtrb | ahh , I ment plasmashell --version |
| 20:08.47 | shtrb | you can use xrander to query reset the screens from command line |
| 20:08.58 | rly_ | shtrb: tha does not work (plasmashell --version) |
| 20:09.08 | rly_ | shtrb: it also "aborts" . |
| 20:09.14 | shtrb | how do you start it ? |
| 20:09.18 | rly_ | shtrb: because it cannot connect. |
| 20:09.24 | rly_ | shtrb: this is just a programming error. |
| 20:09.29 | rly_ | shtrb: or a design flaw. |
| 20:09.37 | shtrb | facepalsm you are not in gui |
| 20:09.40 | shtrb | sorry |
| 20:10.10 | rly_ | shtrb: I think the program should never have to depend on a working GUI session in order to display this information. |
| 20:10.42 | shtrb | I think it failed to connect to a working dbus session |
| 20:11.04 | rly_ | shtrb: also possible. |
| 20:11.04 | shtrb | or to the current screen |
| 20:11.17 | rly_ | shtrb: the fact that the error doesn't say, is another flaw. |
| 20:11.28 | rly_ | shtrb: it would never pass my peer review. |
| 20:12.23 | rly_ | shtrb: anyway, it appears that you don't know, right? |
| 20:12.52 | shtrb | I'm checking how to do it manually from different ttys |
| 20:13.03 | shtrb | what distro do you use ? |
| 20:13.08 | rly_ | shtrb: NixOS. |
| 20:13.25 | shtrb | googling what plasmashell is on NixOs |
| 20:13.41 | rly_ | shtrb: two at least. |
| 20:13.47 | rly_ | shtrb: I run version 5.something. |
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| 20:14.12 | asturm | rly_: you should be able to ask your package manager |
| 20:14.27 | shtrb | welcome back asturm |
| 20:14.34 | rly_ | shtrb: 5.8.4 |
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| 20:15.06 | rly_ | The libraries are versioned in other ways. |
| 20:15.17 | shtrb | it's recent enough |
| 20:15.24 | rly_ | I run the newest available in this stable distribution. |
| 20:15.42 | rly_ | I just think it's weird that something as simple as a taskbar also crashes KDE> |
| 20:15.59 | rly_ | Microsoft had that working in 1995. |
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| 20:16.33 | shtrb | calling win 3.1.1 and 95 working is a very nice thing from you |
| 20:16.40 | rly_ | It might be nvidia crashing, or whatever, but then display a big warning with actual proof the graphics card is at fault. |
| 20:17.15 | rly_ | The only thing crashing on my system is KDE. |
| 20:17.38 | rly_ | My own programs run 24/7/365. |
| 20:17.59 | TheQuestionmark | Then your KDE is broken. |
| 20:18.01 | rly_ | Do you think it's odd for me to say that I just don't get what the **** you are doing? |
| 20:18.06 | TheQuestionmark | Because KDE does fine here. |
| 20:18.13 | rly_ | TheQuestionmark: unlikely. |
| 20:18.13 | shtrb | I'm really sorry , only today I learned about this dist but a bug report or a bribe may help |
| 20:18.32 | rly_ | shtrb: it has nothing to do with the distribution. |
| 20:18.39 | shtrb | rly_ , I'm sitting here trying to help a fello user |
| 20:18.43 | rly_ | shtrb: the KDE model of distribution is broken. |
| 20:18.53 | shtrb | ok ... |
| 20:19.06 | rly_ | shtrb: sure, and I am explaining to a fellow user the model of distribution is fundamentally flawed. |
| 20:19.15 | rly_ | There is *nothing* special about KDE. |
| 20:19.33 | rly_ | It could just be another user-land application which runs the same binary on all Linux systems. |
| 20:19.48 | rly_ | But for some reason it requires "distributions" to do work to package it. |
| 20:19.57 | shtrb | I think it would be best if you will file a bug report , maybe your traces will provide the needed information to fix the problem if that is a software one |
| 20:20.06 | rly_ | To me that looks like creating work, which doesn't solve anything. |
| 20:20.20 | shtrb | if you dislike the idea of package mangment you can always build from source |
| 20:20.26 | asturm | those who do not report will remain sad for an infinite amount of time |
| 20:20.39 | rly_ | asturm: I reported many KDE issues. |
| 20:20.53 | rly_ | asturm: I only report new ones, when they have all been solved. |
| 20:20.59 | shtrb | I could sware you could do connect to different display from a tty |
| 20:21.05 | asturm | rly_: that's not how it works |
| 20:21.13 | rly_ | asturm: that's exactly how it works. |
| 20:21.24 | shtrb | rly_ , try killing the session and restarting it |
| 20:21.29 | rly_ | asturm: and if the reply rate is not high enough, I will just install Cinnamon or whatever. |
| 20:21.36 | rly_ | shtrb: I already specified that was not a solution. |
| 20:21.41 | shtrb | there was an option via xrandr but I failed to do that from a different tty |
| 20:21.43 | asturm | rly_: so you think bugs are fixed in a first-in-first-out fashion? |
| 20:21.52 | rly_ | asturm: they should be. |
| 20:22.05 | shtrb | rly_ , then we need to find the how to use xrandr to reset your screen from tty |
| 20:22.12 | rly_ | asturm: otherwise there is no incentive to file reports. |
| 20:22.41 | rly_ | asturm: it is part of the implicit contract. |
| 20:22.57 | asturm | rly_: then I'm sorry to break it to you but knowledge and available manpower is not evenly distributed to all the bugs |
| 20:23.05 | rly_ | asturm: if issues get closed without being solved, it's the largest "FU" you can make to a user possible. |
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| 20:23.14 | shtrb | not being the devil advocate but KDE is shipped with a warrnty it will work |
| 20:23.31 | rly_ | shtrb: you mean "not". |
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| 20:23.49 | shtrb | *without |
| 20:24.17 | rly_ | shtrb: sure, however you call it. I call it incompetence. |
| 20:24.34 | rly_ | shtrb: I think I will just configure one of the many others for now. |
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| 20:24.48 | rly_ | I will see how long they won't crash. |
| 20:24.57 | shtrb | rly_ , there is a good reason why in many countries you get a tax return if you donate money for public issues |
| 20:25.35 | asturm | we haven't even established that Plasma is at fault here |
| 20:25.37 | shtrb | you are welcome to donate money to your local FOSS community so they will hire a dev to fix it , that way you will get a tax return and the bug will be fixed |
| 20:25.50 | asturm | shtrb: even better, you can hire a dev yourself |
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| 20:26.00 | shtrb | rly_ , does it happen with a brand new user |
| 20:26.03 | rly_ | shtrb: tax returns don't work like that. |
| 20:26.05 | probono | lol |
| 20:26.08 | shtrb | asturm , you will not get a tax return in that case |
| 20:26.37 | asturm | shtrb: what you describe doesn't work for me either :p |
| 20:26.42 | shtrb | rly_ ,depending on the type , but in some places that is one of the ways (I'm in contact with one for exactly this thing) |
| 20:27.07 | rly_ | shtrb: if you donate 100,-, you don't get a return of 100,-. |
| 20:27.09 | shtrb | asturm , the idea is to get a tax return and on the way to solve a problem |
| 20:27.13 | shtrb | ofx |
| 20:27.14 | shtrb | *ofc |
| 20:27.19 | shtrb | you will get much less |
| 20:27.40 | asturm | shtrb: again, doesn't work in my country :p |
| 20:27.41 | rly_ | shtrb: it's just that the money won't go to the state. |
| 20:28.10 | rly_ | shtrb: so, if everyone would do it, the government would have a problem. |
| 20:28.20 | shtrb | but if you hire a person you need to pay extra (insurance , pension , benifts ) that sum up to almost 0.7 of his salary in some cases |
| 20:28.35 | shtrb | asturm , you don't get a tax return for a donation ? |
| 20:28.40 | asturm | not at all. |
| 20:28.54 | shtrb | maybe there is a loophole (a bug in their docs) |
| 20:29.03 | shtrb | that you can abuse |
| 20:29.16 | rly_ | shtrb: I also don't think there are any KDE devs worth paying. |
| 20:29.24 | asturm | rly_: maybe you should leave then. |
| 20:29.34 | rly_ | shtrb: there is perhaps one person I talked to who *might* qualify. |
| 20:29.38 | shtrb | rly_, if people get money they spend it (direct and indirect taxes) |
| 20:30.18 | shtrb | rly_ , there are many people who code , not all work directly on your favorite project |
| 20:30.24 | rly_ | asturm: do you not think it's rather silly that in 2017 KDE cannot display a taskbar that does not crash? |
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| 20:30.36 | asturm | rly_: it's your system that can't do that |
| 20:30.45 | asturm | Plasma is perfectly fine |
| 20:30.48 | rly_ | asturm: it can with any other DE. |
| 20:30.51 | shtrb | rly_ , I have win10 that bsods twice a day with signed drivers so what ? |
| 20:31.01 | shtrb | (when I tried to start neon on vbox) |
| 20:31.09 | asturm | rly_: besides, communities don't display taskbars |
| 20:31.20 | rly_ | asturm: no, it's just that Plasma doesn't work if you put the laptop to sleep while you disconnect the secondary screen. |
| 20:31.38 | shtrb | rly_ , at last you gave some info ! |
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| 20:31.58 | asturm | yeah, finally something concrete |
| 20:32.01 | shtrb | check your hibernate screens / code if it query the active screens or not |
| 20:32.14 | rly_ | asturm: you claim that Plasma "is fine". |
| 20:32.21 | rly_ | asturm: that's just ridiculous. |
| 20:32.28 | rly_ | asturm: it's not an engineered piece of software. |
| 20:32.48 | rly_ | asturm: it still has more than zero non-feature bugs open, right? |
| 20:32.50 | troffasky | so don't use it then |
| 20:32.52 | rly_ | asturm: it's not "fine |
| 20:32.55 | rly_ | ". |
| 20:32.56 | shtrb | rly_ , even if plasma is fine and you disconnected a screen while it was off and there was no query for screens plasma have no way of knowing the screen is dead |
| 20:33.04 | asturm | rly_: every software has bugs, it just so happens that you have found one that you are particularly affetced by |
| 20:33.13 | rly_ | asturm: my software has no known bugs. |
| 20:33.18 | asturm | HA! |
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| 20:33.27 | asturm | now that's a ridiculous statement to make |
| 20:33.37 | troffasky | stop feeding the troll :-p |
| 20:33.52 | asturm | with a possible userbase of 1, there may indeed be no known bugs |
| 20:33.54 | shtrb | rly_ , lets go back to the issue |
| 20:34.04 | rly_ | asturm: I just look in our bug tracking system and the ones of the companies I previously worked for. The count is zero. |
| 20:34.10 | shtrb | rly_ , you need to check your hibernate scripts |
| 20:34.12 | rly_ | looked* |
| 20:34.39 | asturm | rly_: when I wasn't able to use kernels 3.7 to 4.0 I didn't call Linux 'not an engineered piece of software' |
| 20:34.42 | shtrb | rly_ , not to be the devil advocate again but many times customers will not open bugs because it cost money |
| 20:34.59 | asturm | and that was over a period of two years |
| 20:35.01 | shtrb | even debugging costs money |
| 20:35.15 | rly_ | shtrb: the software I write is used continuously in 24/7/365 environments. |
| 20:35.40 | asturm | it's probably not a desktop environment |
| 20:35.45 | rly_ | asturm: haha |
| 20:35.51 | shtrb | rly_ , good for your software , but without seeing the contracts the absense of bug reports does not mean they are not there |
| 20:36.32 | shtrb | rly_ , no matter how good is your software is defacts may exists even if no one had registered them |
| 20:36.41 | pepo_ | rly_, many Plasma bugs are actually bugs or regressions in Qt or OpenGL drivers. |
| 20:36.52 | rly_ | pepo_: that's not an excuse to crash. |
| 20:37.06 | pepo_ | rly_, but it is an explanation |
| 20:37.10 | shtrb | rly_, please check your scripts and try to reset the screen using xrandr |
| 20:37.11 | rly_ | pepo_: it could run all those regressions at initialization time. |
| 20:37.45 | rly_ | pepo_: a program should understand the execution environment it is a part of. |
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| 20:38.08 | rly_ | pepo_: just sending a command to a GPU which you don't trust, is just a rookie mistake. |
| 20:38.14 | troffasky | you will have to share your revolutionary bug-prevention technology with the KDE project |
| 20:38.18 | rly_ | You can't just say "oh, noes, the drivers". |
| 20:38.20 | troffasky | i'm sure they'll be grateful |
| 20:38.31 | rly_ | troffasky: I had an education. |
| 20:38.36 | rly_ | troffasky: that helps. |
| 20:38.40 | pepo_ | yes, let's see how he fixes "our" bugs |
| 20:38.56 | rly_ | pepo_: by the time I am done with KDE, there is probably no KDE left. |
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| 20:39.16 | rly_ | pepo_: that's exactly why I don't send in patches; I would disagree with almost everything. |
| 20:39.19 | asturm | rly_: you keep talking about KDE as if it was a software |
| 20:39.27 | rly_ | asturm: fine, Plasma. |
| 20:39.29 | shtrb | rly_ , I belive you had excelent luck and excelent teachers who gave you condifence that make you belive that your approach will work in any envoirmetn |
| 20:39.39 | rly_ | asturm: excuse me, but you called it KDE for 15+ years. |
| 20:39.43 | asturm | shtrb: or massive arrogance |
| 20:39.43 | tosky | rly_: no |
| 20:39.51 | tosky | rly_: much less than that |
| 20:40.03 | shtrb | astrum let's not be rude |
| 20:40.13 | tosky | rly_: the "KDE is the community" started during Akademy 2006, Dublin, you can check the keynote online |
| 20:40.14 | asturm | shtrb: I like to call things by their name |
| 20:40.16 | tosky | there is a video |
| 20:40.20 | tosky | (and I was there) |
| 20:40.39 | rly_ | tosky: and KDE workspace package existed until when? |
| 20:41.09 | tosky | rly_: KDE Plasma Workspaces was just born, and it was no KDE-the-desktop anymore |
| 20:41.14 | rly_ | tosky: untl when did distributions advertise with "ships with KDE"? |
| 20:41.38 | tosky | rly_: most of the distributions changed correctly the naming |
| 20:41.43 | rly_ | tosky: I already know the rebranding, but that doesn't change anything. |
| 20:41.47 | tosky | rly_: it does |
| 20:42.04 | rly_ | tosky: so, what does it change? |
| 20:42.45 | rly_ | From an end-user point of view, I see the quality is still as low as it was 5 years ago. |
| 20:42.46 | tosky | KDE is the community, and anyone should be able to use the proper terminology - educated people even more |
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| 20:43.20 | rly_ | Whether or not you rebranded, is rather irrelevant to that point. |
| 20:43.20 | tosky | fine, you made your point; if there are no more constructive point to the discussion maybe it's time to close it |
| 20:43.32 | shtrb | tosky , what does education have anything to it ? |
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| 20:43.54 | tosky | shtrb: it said it gives a better understanding |
| 20:44.06 | rly_ | Anyway, the conclusion is that nobody was able to actually give a concrete suggestion to the problem at hand. |
| 20:44.27 | rly_ | Running "xrandr" is not a concrete suggestion. |
| 20:44.36 | tosky | because others maybe did not reproduce it |
| 20:44.43 | shtrb | I t does ? nice to know , it is not the feeling I got looking on what is going in many of the campuses in recent years |
| 20:45.10 | shtrb | rly_ , you may use xrandr to reset your screen or to kill your X session |
| 20:45.20 | tosky | the point is not kill the X session |
| 20:45.24 | shtrb | but first check your hibernate scripts to perform screen query |
| 20:45.40 | rly_ | shtrb: that's not a concrete suggestion. |
| 20:45.53 | rly_ | shtrb: "xrandr" without arguments doesn't do anything useful. |
| 20:46.02 | tosky | xrandr --auto |
| 20:46.17 | shtrb | he need to pass the display to it and I forgot the syntax |
| 20:46.29 | tosky | what does the systemsetting module for the screen say? (It gathers the information from the same interface used by xrandr) |
| 20:46.30 | shtrb | he is running from a tty (probabably) |
| 20:46.35 | tosky | xrandr --auto |
| 20:46.42 | shtrb | tosky , the screen is blank for him |
| 20:46.43 | rly_ | tosky: Can't open display |
| 20:47.15 | tosky | rly_: export DISPLAY=:0 |
| 20:47.20 | tosky | and then xrandr --auto |
| 20:47.39 | tosky | and xrandr without arguments show the status |
| 20:47.53 | rly_ | tosky: also wrong. |
| 20:47.57 | tosky | so it's not useless, if one tries it |
| 20:48.04 | rly_ | Really, it appears that everyone is just guessing. |
| 20:48.05 | tosky | rly_: same error? |
| 20:48.10 | tosky | I'm not guessing |
| 20:48.32 | shtrb | rly_ , I just checked it |
| 20:48.36 | shtrb | go to a tty export it there |
| 20:48.44 | tosky | you are in console, right? |
| 20:48.53 | shtrb | (*) connect using the same user as your X session running |
| 20:48.55 | tosky | shtrb: didn't he hint that he was in a console already? |
| 20:49.01 | shtrb | yes , |
| 20:49.10 | rly_ | tosky: configure crtc0 failed. |
| 20:49.14 | shtrb | and when he say console I assume tty and not an actuall console |
| 20:49.25 | tosky | tty is a console |
| 20:49.27 | shtrb | rly_ , what does xrandr -q |
| 20:49.45 | shtrb | sory I meant vt |
| 20:49.51 | tosky | rly_: so are you on a text console, alt-f2/f3/...fwhatever? |
| 20:50.16 | rly_ | tosky: yes |
| 20:50.25 | shtrb | rly_ , xrandr -q |
| 20:50.26 | rly_ | shtrb: it displays one screen. |
| 20:50.27 | shtrb | to see what you have |
| 20:50.32 | shtrb | yes no select it |
| 20:50.40 | rly_ | shtrb: and that output looks fine. |
| 20:52.07 | tosky | what is the name shown? |
| 20:52.10 | shtrb | xrandr --output LVDS --mode (what it support for you ) |
| 20:52.29 | tosky | replace LVDS with then name of your display |
| 20:52.37 | tosky | I have LVDS-0 for example |
| 20:52.46 | tosky | it's in the second line of xrandr's output |
| 20:52.50 | tosky | -> LVDS-1 connected primary 1600x900+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 309mm x 174mm |
| 20:52.58 | shtrb | or xrandr --output LVDS --auto |
| 20:53.42 | shtrb | but the query of screen state and reset is out of the scope of plasma but your hibernate script |
| 20:55.02 | shtrb | rly_ ? |
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| 20:55.46 | shtrb | tosky you have multiple LVDS on your laptop ? |
| 20:58.32 | rly_ | shtrb: I was out of patience; I restarted my session. |
| 20:58.58 | shtrb | rly_ , ok add a reset action your hibernate scripts |
| 20:59.44 | shtrb | or add a systemd timer/cron job to do it for you once in a while |
| 20:59.46 | rly_ | shtrb: no, those are workarounds. |
| 21:00.03 | rly_ | shtrb: the X and KDE people just need to fix whatever they are distributing. |
| 21:00.13 | rly_ | I fix what I inflict upon the world. |
| 21:00.18 | shtrb | rly_ , you either change your hibernate script or query what ever you like |
| 21:00.46 | shtrb | rly_ that is not a plasma or even X problem |
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| 21:01.07 | rly_ | shtrb: uhm, obviously it is. |
| 21:01.12 | shtrb | when you go back from hibernate you are either with the same hardware or qury it |
| 21:01.22 | rly_ | shtrb: if I need to restart displau-manager.service and then it works, it obviously is. |
| 21:01.29 | shtrb | no |
| 21:01.35 | shtrb | that is not what I said |
| 21:01.45 | rly_ | shtrb: it is what I am saying. |
| 21:01.50 | shtrb | you have a bug in YOUR hibernate script |
| 21:02.05 | rly_ | shtrb: uhm, you have presented no evidence of that. |
| 21:02.21 | rly_ | shtrb: my programs work fine, before or after hibernate. |
| 21:02.30 | rly_ | shtrb: they don't need scripts to work. |
| 21:02.30 | shtrb | rly_ , if you go back from hibernate while both screens are connected it works correct ? |
| 21:02.44 | rly_ | shtrb: probably. |
| 21:03.07 | shtrb | and it does not work if you come back from when one of the screens is not attached ? |
| 21:03.11 | rly_ | shtrb: plasma can figure out all by itself how the screens are connected at any moment in time. |
| 21:03.23 | rly_ | shtrb: it's not like I reproduced this 100 times. |
| 21:03.30 | shtrb | it's not it's job , you are requesting a feature |
| 21:03.35 | rly_ | shtrb: but I would expect the plasma people doing that. |
| 21:03.46 | rly_ | Otherwise, they can just as well stop doing what they are doing. |
| 21:03.57 | shtrb | an HDMI /VGA disconnect is an event , but you are asking to check if they are still there |
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| 21:04.55 | rly_ | shtrb: you don't seem to comprehend that you are looking for technical excuses. |
| 21:04.57 | shtrb | rly_ , and I really would like to have neon running in vbox without crashing my win10 machine so do I need to blame neon or vbox / win10 ? |
| 21:05.08 | rly_ | shtrb: fact is: "it does not work". |
| 21:05.15 | shtrb | rly_ , I'm trying to give you a solution |
| 21:05.33 | rly_ | shtrb: depends on what is crashing. |
| 21:05.34 | shtrb | you can accpet it and be happy or not and not be happy |
| 21:05.42 | dontknow | i liked kde neon's minimalism |
| 21:05.58 | shtrb | right now we are not alking about a crash but about screen blank |
| 21:06.13 | rly_ | shtrb: if the whole machine crashes, it's windows fault. |
| 21:07.17 | shtrb | rly_ , actually NO the bug is in vbox because it caused it (safe and signed drivers my ass) , but it's the same as in your case (for me I was trying to use neon and you are trying to use your plasme version ) |
| 21:07.49 | shtrb | windows in this case behave as expected, and so does X in your case |
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| 21:08.36 | tosky | rly_: plasma use the information provided by Xorg, through the QScreen class in Qt; you can check the code |
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| 21:13.12 | rly_ | shtrb: no, you are not respecting abstractions. vbox should be able to do whatever it wants and still not crash your windows. |
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| 21:13.29 | rly_ | shtrb: some parts of the PC architecture have that flaw, |
| 21:13.47 | rly_ | shtrb: and that too are mistakes that serve no purpose at all. |
| 21:13.50 | shtrb | rly_ , in case there is an exception in the kernel ring a userspace app has no power |
| 21:14.03 | shtrb | to solve it |
| 21:14.29 | rly_ | shtrb: safe kernel ring 0s have existed for a decade already. |
| 21:14.43 | rly_ | shtrb: it's just that the open-source world lags behind. |
| 21:14.49 | shtrb | yes , and bug can crash it in some cases |
| 21:15.05 | rly_ | shtrb: no, not on those systems. |
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| 21:15.19 | rly_ | shtrb: these systems are created for military IT systems. |
| 21:15.41 | rly_ | shtrb: and they are basically the electronic equivalent of a fortress. |
| 21:15.44 | shtrb | I really don't know which kernels you worked with , but the ones I have seen in my life will missbehave in such cases |
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| 21:16.05 | rly_ | shtrb: sure, but what I run on my laptop is not the state of the art. |
| 21:16.07 | shtrb | you are for sure more educated and have better experiance with that |
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| 21:17.07 | shtrb | but back to the issue , you need to check your hibernate or to add a feature that will query/reset your screens |
| 21:17.16 | shtrb | otherwise you will continue to have the same issue |
| 21:17.35 | rly_ | shtrb: Plasma shouldn't even start without such a script in place. |
| 21:17.53 | shtrb | that is not how hibernate works ... |
| 21:17.54 | rly_ | shtrb: KDE could write such a script and mandate that it's part of the environment. |
| 21:18.32 | rly_ | shtrb: implementation of said feature could even depend on having a working locate database. |
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| 21:19.20 | rly_ | It would be a horrible hack, but it would work. |
| 21:19.30 | rly_ | It could even fall back to find(1). |
| 21:20.32 | rly_ | Anyway, I would wish that I could speak better of Plasma. |
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| 21:20.48 | shtrb | that was odd |
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| 21:26.08 | troffasky | i am surprised you persisted in helping for so long |
| 21:26.13 | troffasky | well, attempting to |
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| 22:17.03 | troffasky | session restart definitely cures bug 356479 |
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| 22:43.03 | armin | can i tell KDE to allow clicks somewhere in any free area of a window to allow drag'n'drop operations? |
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| 23:32.22 | rubin110_ | I'm having this weird issue in Konsole where vertical and horizontal transparent 1 pixel lines appear. |
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| 23:34.35 | rubin110_ | http://0.starset.net/screenies/20170214153300-Selection.png |
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| 23:35.53 | rubin110_ | I have screen scaling set to 1.5 |
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| 23:57.50 | zuiss1 | is there a way to set up a keyboard shortcut that will activate a certain window? like one that will activate firefox, another for thunderbird, etc? |
| 23:58.02 | zuiss1 | when the window doesn't have focus |
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