irclog2html for #kde on 20060913

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00:06.44DexterFSutoka: had to fresh, all fine, thanks
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00:14.46eldowanDoes the composite extensions not work with the panel(s)? Is the only transparency options for the panel(s) the background transparency?
00:15.02Renzethe panel only has fake transparency
00:15.05Renzeat the moment
00:15.12eldowanRenze: Thats what I thought. Thanks.
00:15.14Sutokaeldowan: yes, currently
00:15.48eldowanSutoka: Renze: you two seem to be the gurus today :D
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00:16.00Renzeno, just bored :D
00:16.42eldowanSo using a background image that is transparent for the panel packground would do nothing?
00:16.54eldowanSutoka: FF7 :D :D
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00:17.23RenzeSutoka: ah, memories... I loved that game
00:17.27eldowanSutoka: You just made me want to dig out my copy and play through again.
00:17.29Sutokaeldowan: i doubt it would get the result you want (im not really sure what it would do actually)
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00:19.02RenzeI should finish FF8 sometime
00:19.03Sutokaseeing the commercials for the new FF7 game made me want to try and finish it... and then watch the FF7 movie again (and this time i actually knew who most of the characters were)
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00:19.33eldowanSutoka: New FF7 game?
00:19.53RenzeDirge of Cerberus?
00:19.57Sutokaeldowan: yeah, FF7 Derge of Cerberous or something, its coming out for PS2 i think, looks like its first person based and real time
00:20.21eldowanhack / slash?
00:20.22Sutokaunfortunately since its ps2 only, that means ill never play it
00:20.23Renzefollows the story of Vincent Valentine
00:20.28Sutokaeldowan: shooting
00:21.05eldowanVincent was pretty cool, but I have a soft spot for 3rd person turn-based rpgs
00:21.39SutokaFF7 and ChronoTriggers are the only ones i really liked (and i love both of them)
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00:22.13eldowanchronotrigger was awesome.
00:22.20eldowanSutoka: have you tried chronocross?
00:22.29Sutokaeldowan: i tried to rent it once but was never able to find it
00:23.08eldowanSutoka: Hmmm. I never tried it either. I do like ?suikoden? 2 though.
00:23.55RenzeSquare(-Enix) fanclub
00:24.53eldowanheh. at least untill on topic questions start again...
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00:28.50Sutokawe'll just have to scare off anyone with an on topic question ;-)
00:29.47Sutokai wonder if theres an OSS 3rd person turn-based RPGs in portage...
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00:32.43Sutokaeldowan: that looks like its just an engine
00:33.22Sutokaeldowan: or maybe not... ill check it out
00:33.39eldowanhmm apt shows adonthell and adonthell-data
00:34.07Sutokaunfortunately their site doesn't seem to work right
00:34.25Sutokaah theres 'wastesedge' which 'showcase the adonthell engine'
00:35.07eldowannice. Now I'm reminded of the gorillas QBasic game for dos...
00:35.42Sutokai wish there was a better selection of OSS games
00:36.00Sutokatheres a few really good ones, like Wesnoth, but they're generally really hard to find out about them
00:36.08eldowanor even a good selection of cross-platform GL games...
00:37.25Sutokai guess a lack of OSS enthusiastic artists is the huge issue with OSS games
00:38.25eldowanartists, engine developers, scripters...
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00:40.06eldowana screenshot from waste's edge:
00:40.22eldowan^ using the adonthell engine
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00:41.35Sutokakinda reminds me of nethack
00:44.44Sutokaits a shame vegastrike stagnated a few years ago, it seemed quite promising
00:45.22eldowannever heard of them.
00:46.27Sutokavegastrike was a 3d space simulation game, seems like development mostly stopped at the end of 05
00:46.39eldowanhow about 'the guild'?
00:46.46Sutokanever heard of it
00:46.57eldowanwesnoth looks fantastic.
00:47.36rr72Renze~ no parted is stupid, not what i thought it was, qtparted is cooler
00:47.37Sutokaeldowan: its great, the campaigns are lots of fun
00:47.47eldowan3d rendered / (raytraced? ) adventure.
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00:48.08Sutokalooking at their SVN server it looks like trunk is still being developed (last update 81 minutes ago), guess they just haven't made a release in forever
00:48.25eldowanSutoka: vegastrike?
00:48.33Sutokaeldowan: yeah
00:49.13Homervegastrike is still under active development
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00:50.21SutokaHomer: thats good to hear, i had followed it for a while till the development seemed to stop (at least the releases) just when it started looking really good
00:50.29Homerit's slowed not stopped
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00:53.07SutokaRenze: 'goes'?
00:53.23RenzeSutoka: bad choice of words :)
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01:01.46HomerI find that when you work on big projects you end up going through a mid-life crisis
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01:02.05Homeryou are like, hmm maybe I should have made the archecture this way instead of that way
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01:18.47QMarioHow do I block all messages in GMail from a domain name such as : Basically how do I block all messages from * in GMail?
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01:26.10eldowanQMario: you are trying this on the web-client?
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01:47.47safrican_Hi, I'm kinda new to using KDE - always been using Xfce/GNOME, in Konqueror, by curiosity - I checked the orientation of the Location Bar as "Flat" but I am not able to see it anymore, and I have found out that it is for hiding the Location bar, etc. however, I am not able to get it back. What configuration file would this be stored in so I can get it back to default ?
01:48.33Sutokasafrican_: click the little dots on the left edge
01:49.16safrican_i thought i'd tried that
01:49.22safrican_alright thanks it works :-)
01:49.41safrican_sorry for the fairly easy question, i was not able to find it in the online Konqueror docs
01:49.46safrican_and google, so i had to resort to this
01:49.49safrican_and thank you
01:50.19Sutokasafrican_: i had to figure out by setting it to flat and just noticed the dots lol
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01:50.44safrican_ah ok.. heh, my monitor's kinda old (like 10 years old) so i wasn't able to notice it
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02:07.04Sutokai wonder if i can get an ogg vorbis of the qt4 dance song somewhere...
02:07.57Renzeqt4 dance song?
02:08.02qupadayou can pull the mp3 audio from the mpg video they ship it as, if i'm thinking of the same thing you are
02:08.06SutokaRenze: you never saw the qt4 dance video?!!?
02:08.12qupadaRenze: it's disturbing
02:08.21Renzeand I don't think I want to
02:08.27Sutokaqupada: i could, but i wonder if theres an original version thats just the song
02:08.31SutokaRenze: its awesome
02:08.47SutokaRenze: you get to see a bunch of the trolls dancing in a field!
02:09.11Sutokasome may describe it as disturbing...
02:10.13Sutokaoooh they have an mp3 on that page!
02:10.19Sutokaunfortunately no ogg vorbis :-(
02:10.32Sutokaah cool! they have the lyrics there!
02:10.46Sutokai wonder if amarok would fetch the lyrics if i tried playing the mp3 on that page...
02:10.53eldowanI should have listened to renze...
02:11.16qupadaeldowan: how so?
02:11.18Renzeeldowan: learn the power of restraint :D
02:11.28Sutokaeldowan: are you scared for life now?
02:11.34eldowanRenze: But I was downloading before the link was posted...
02:11.46qupadaSutoka: scarred, surely?
02:12.09eldowanI think I'll just trashbin that memory of the song.
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02:14.21eldowanHmmm. amarok just stopped using my global key bindings. Any help?
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02:17.20eldowanamarok restarted fixed it. ^
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02:31.25eldowanmortici: Thats not much to go on now is it?
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02:31.55morticijust making sure theres someone alive here
02:32.44morticiKDE doesn't seem to want to preview the images in folders. Not by clicking on them but just when you open the folder its jpg icons, not the image preview
02:32.54letalisi always peer in at the most interesting time
02:32.56Sutokayour modern 'on the go' zombie perfers a low cal diet, such as skin and livers
02:33.21ironfroggyare there any interesting things i could map to extra buttons on my mouse?
02:33.27Sutokamortici: is previews enabled for the protcol in konq's settings?
02:33.36morticihow do i check?
02:33.46eldowanSutoka: Would 'on the go' zombies prefer higher cals to enable those extremely quick stuttering steps?
02:34.27eldowanmortici: settings=>configure konqueror=>previews& meta-data
02:34.56eldowanmortici: check Local Protocols -> file
02:35.51morticiYay it works!
02:37.28Tomasuanyone have amarok "hide" all of the columns in the playlist? Mine all seem to be squished to the left...
02:38.59eldowanTomasu: have you tried hiding all of the columns, and then showing them one at a time?
02:39.30eldowanTomasu: or you might try doubleclicking on the column boundary
02:39.47Tomasuwhat boundary?
02:40.01eldowanTomasu: where the cursor changes to the resize graphic
02:40.29Tomasuyeah, there wernt any.
02:40.46Tomasubut I just found the dialog for choosing which columns, and that fixed it.
02:41.07eldowanTomasu: Thats what I meant by 'hiding all of the columng'. Glad you found it :)
02:41.25TomasuId been looking for it.. cant imagine why I didnt find it till now ;)
02:42.09eldowanTomasu: Its the selective blindness. I usually happens when you are looking for something.
02:42.48Tomasuits amazing how you always find things in the last place you look ;)
02:42.56eldowanamazing indeed
02:43.13Renzeusually because you stop looking when you find it :D
02:44.45Tomasunot always ;)
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02:45.20eldowanTomasu: I'm not sure about you, but I stop looking when I find what I'm looking for.
02:45.33Tomasudo you always know when youve found something?
02:45.41Tomasucould be staring right at it, and not see it
02:46.57RenzeTomasu: then you haven't found it :)
02:47.08Tomasusure you have, you just don't realize it ;)
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02:47.12eldowanif you are looking at something but don't realize what you are looking at, have you really found anything?
02:47.43Tomasusure if its religion or polotics :-x
02:47.55Tomasuor spelling
02:48.06eldowanTomasu: find: to locate, attain, or obtain by search or effort
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02:49.39Tomasuwhelp, I need to finish this stupid twiki->mediawiki script...
02:50.22eldowanway to duck out... :D
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02:51.54Tomasuyay for duplicates...
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02:55.28Tomasujust realized my helsing OSTs were in my library twice..
02:58.11hagabakaWikis would be much more convenient if there were more ASCII symbols...
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03:00.42wineadmhi why is it if I copy over Wine to .kde/share/applnk/  the K>Wine isn't there even after strating kde ?
03:01.15wineadmit used to pick it up and yes I changed username:group  groups the same thou
03:02.03Renzewineadm: run kbuildsycoca as user
03:02.24Renzewineadm: and I assume Wine is a valid .desktop file?
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03:02.56Renzewineadm: if you're trying to add a submenu, you're doing it wrong
03:03.21wineadmI should find the destop file too I guess
03:03.46wineadmjust there is a lot in there for all users to use and would like to save on retyping it all :D
03:03.49Renzeyou should learn what they are first, I think... go read the specs on
03:06.51wineadmlearn what are first ?
03:07.21Renze.desktop files
03:08.01wineadmwell I don't see a descktop on fro the Wine dir in the user that it works in
03:08.08wineadmjust for the games
03:08.31wineadmon fro/one for
03:09.40wineadmjust want to get K>Wine>Program/Firefly Studios  and Microsoft Games  tc to show up
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03:10.15wineadmbut I copied the Wine folder over from a users dir thats its all works in and shanged the username
03:10.26wineadmso why is that not getting picked up
03:11.01Shirakawasunawineadm: you're aware of the kmenueditor, yes?
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03:11.21wineadmyes but why type them all over again
03:11.32Renzewineadm: because it's not as simple as just copying a folder
03:11.40wineadmwhen cp chnage user;group should do it
03:12.07ShirakawasunaI'm not sure that that's how it works
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03:12.18wineadmso i have to add it all in the menu for each user again :(
03:12.35wineadmwith the editor ugh
03:13.31ShirakawasunaRenze: are the gentoo forums down for you?
03:13.52Renzewineadm: not if you learn how to edit menus properly by reading the information on
03:14.01wineadmI can drag drop a desktop icon into the editor but I can't even drag drop that folder in from filemanager to the editor :(
03:14.03RenzeShirakawasuna: I rarely ever visit the forums
03:14.33_rootmaybe i can help
03:14.37wineadmwhast the exact thing to read
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03:16.28wineadmok what link
03:16.36ShirakawasunaI'm having problems w/ kbuildsycoca's warnings + an error about the database being unavailable
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03:18.44wineadmTo create your own templates, add a page with a name matching the regex "[a-z]Template$". this ?
03:18.48wineadmwhat is that
03:19.20Shirakawasunawhen I run kbuildsycoca I get this:
03:19.40wineadmthat looks more like its on how to make a wiki page or something
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03:22.41wineadmhad to enter it from the main page . now it shows diffrent
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03:23.10wineadmok 1 thing K>Wine  where does it put the .dscktop file for that folder ?
03:24.38wineadmWine/Programs/Microsoft Games/Age of Empires II/Age of Empires II.desktop  thats there as it should be but cd back to Wine or 1 before it and I don't see Wine.desktop or any
03:27.45wineadmwhere is the file that the editor makes for the folder info
03:29.02wineadm  doesn't say where this gets put or should be put
03:30.51wineadmRenze so a game we all know it makes game.desktop but looking at the user that it all works in I do not see .directory or Wine.descktop so what file gets aedit to add the folder for the men
03:31.25Renzeum, could you throw some punctuation in there... I can't understand it like that
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03:31.53RenzeI'm also far too busy to help you
03:32.57wineadmRenze so a game we all know it makes game.desktop. But looking at the user that it all works in ,I do not see .directory or Wine.descktop. So what file gets edited to add the folder(Wine) for the menu(K>Wine)
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03:34.07Renzewineadm: sorry, I've never needed to make system-wide changes to the menu structure, and I'm neck-deep in php code at the moment so I can't go searching for you.
03:35.06wineadmwell thanks any way this suck for somethign that should be easier than this and hrs of friggin reading :( makes me have to resort to hand editing tham all . that sucks
03:36.15wineadmthe fact is all the games have the .descktop files but there is nothing to tell me easy what or where the file is for the folders
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03:47.34sF|Xemanthso Win key is modifier in kcontrol regional and language settings... in keyboard shortcuts... how can i make it as normal button
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04:02.00JeffATLhow to auto-start a certain app on KDE start?
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04:07.22chino[dev]in the device media list can i add like say a usb drive as a media ?
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04:09.55Shirakawasunaoi vey!
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04:16.03Shirakawasunawould anyone be able to help me work out a kbuildsycoca issue?
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04:25.59Shirakawasunathe output is pretty ugly
04:26.16aseigoShirakawasuna: what's the issue?
04:26.44Shirakawasunathe warnings are annoying and the error is disconcerting
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04:32.39aseigothat error isn't actually an error
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04:32.49aseigoit just means that there wasn't a sycoca and so its making one
04:33.25aseigothe warnings are just on poorly formed .desktop files. nothing to worry about really.
04:33.47aseigois there some kind of bug you are running into, or are you just concerned about the output?
04:35.16aseigoShirakawasuna: ^^
04:35.26chino[dev]aseigo:  can i ask you something really fast /
04:35.37Shirakawasunaaseigo: just concerned
04:35.47aseigochino[dev]: of course
04:35.53aseigoShirakawasuna: ah, ok. well, don't be ;)
04:35.54Shirakawasunaaseigo: every time I run kbuildsycoca I get that error - is it still benign?
04:36.02aseigoyes. it's completely fine
04:36.06chino[dev]aseigo:  for the media applet how do i add my own custom media device  ?
04:36.07Shirakawasunathanks :)
04:36.11aseigokbuildsycoca removes the db
04:36.16aseigosince it's building a new one
04:36.29aseigoand the ksyscocadict object, when created, goes "dude, no database!"
04:36.32Shirakawasunano worries, then :)
04:36.41aseigowhich is, of course, obviously what is going on ;)
04:37.03Shirakawasunaso should I expect those messages to go away only when package maintainers/upstream devs create better .desktop files?
04:37.05aseigochino[dev]: storage media?
04:37.19chino[dev]aseigo:  you know the "media:/" thing it allows you to have device icons
04:37.20Shirakawasunaor edit them myself, I suppose
04:37.27aseigoShirakawasuna: yes, the WARNINGS about the .desktop files will only go away when the issue sin them are rectified.
04:37.41Shirakawasunaok, thanks
04:37.47aseigoShirakawasuna: however, that may not happen because those mimetype entries may be specific to a given OS and are there to make things work
04:37.56aseigoShirakawasuna: which would mean more downstream fixes necessary
04:37.58Shirakawasunathe fun part is that it's usually either an x- or lack or x- in front of the mimetype that's doing it :)
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04:38.13aseigochino[dev]: just making sure you weren't talking about the media control applet, which is sound ;)
04:38.44chino[dev]yea i just would like a icon for my thumb drive
04:38.54aseigochino[dev]: does it show up in media:/ ?
04:39.07chino[dev]i put it into my usb drive and nothing is there
04:39.22chino[dev]just my hd's cdrom and floppy
04:39.38aseigochino[dev]: are you using hal/dbus or  .. ?
04:39.58aseigochino[dev]: because if it doesn't show up in media:/ it won't show up in the applet either (it uses media:/ internally)
04:40.15chino[dev]yes but can i add a custom media device ?
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04:41.20aseigochino[dev]: ah, you mean like a device path or a mount point? no.. it relies on the backend in use.. so hal/dbus needs to see it if you are using that, or if you're using the old school fstab backend then you need an entry there
04:41.43chino[dev]i do have fstab but wtf is hal/dbus ?
04:42.12aseigoa kernel-level hardware device information system that is event driven
04:42.28aseigopublishes over dbus
04:42.28chino[dev]is it only in 2.6 ?
04:42.46aseigoyeah, i don't think it's supported in older kernels
04:42.55chino[dev]i use 2.4 slackware with fstab
04:42.56aseigoand you need the user space tools installed too, of course
04:43.12aseigoah, slack. yeah, no hal/dbus there.. so, is there any entry for your thumbdrive in the /etc/fstab?
04:43.38chino[dev]i just added it and i got a weird pop up! the new kde is crazy...
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04:45.28chino[dev]ok so it says only root can mount
04:45.40aseigochino[dev]: yeah, you need to add user to your fstab entry
04:45.41chino[dev]do i have to put a sticky bit on mount ?
04:45.49chino[dev]instead of owner ?
04:45.58aseigochino[dev]: iirc, yes
04:46.34chino[dev]and hey fstab is state of the art tech not old school!
04:47.45EcnassianerIs this room a good place to ask questions about Korganizer?
04:47.57chino[dev]i love fstab and the way unix does stuff wtf how does the new system work everything is auto detected ? what if you want to add/remove a device?
04:48.41aseigochino[dev]: it just watches fstab for modifications.. when modified it reads it in... and then, iirc, it polls the device files
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04:48.53aseigoEcnassianer: sure. if we can't help #kontact might...
04:48.57chino[dev]oh is this a kde thing or a linux thing ?
04:49.07aseigokde thing
04:49.19chino[dev]hal/dbus ??
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04:49.36aseigooh.. hal/dbus.. that's a linux thing... though it's being ported apparently to fbsd and solaris
04:49.38EcnassianerI'm running Ubuntu (and I don't have KDE install, just KOrganizer and a few other Kapps). I'd like to move my old KOrganizer settings (and calandar and other such things) from my old debian install onto my new Ubuntu install. Anybody know where they're kept? Can I just copy them over like any other .config file?
04:50.03chino[dev]should i just google it or you mind explaining the nutshell of the idea ?
04:50.12EcnassianerGeez, long day at work, my communication skills are degraded. :(
04:50.20aseigoEcnassianer: yes.. they will be kept under `kde-config --localprefx` with everything else. we'll call that $PREFIX
04:51.13aseigoEcnassianer: so look in $PREFIX/share/config/korganizerrc and $PREFIX/share/config/kabcrc ... $PREFIX/share/apps/korganizer and $PREFIX/share/apps/kabc
04:51.28aseigoEcnassianer: or .. just copy $PREFIX over lock stoc kand barrel and all your kde app data and settings will follow
04:51.35chino[dev]aseigo:  didn't kde make a nx viewer ?
04:51.44aseigochino[dev]: yep... was a SoC project
04:51.54chino[dev]wtf is that ?
04:52.02aseigosummer of code.. that google sponsored thing
04:52.19chino[dev]how do i get it ?
04:53.25Ecnassianeraseigo, If I just grab those four files, I'll have everything, or should I search for anything else that might be relevant?
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05:00.58aseigoEcnassianer: that should be pretty much everything.. note that the latter two are directories, not files
05:01.17aseigoEcnassianer: and in generally, it's easier to pull over overything in $PREFIX/share ... but of course, up to you
05:01.36chino[dev]aseigo:  can i get the kde nx viewer seperatly ?
05:01.43aseigochino[dev]: yes
05:01.49chino[dev]where at ?
05:02.53Ecnassianeraseigo, I'd like to leave behind some of the gunked up settings in my old install, so I'm just grabbing what I need. But it looks like I've missed the custom catagories I had setup. All my appointments stil have them in the catagory fields, but  can't add them new and the color settings are gone.
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05:04.17aseigoEcnassianer: hmm.. should be korganizerrc afaik ...
05:04.43EcnassianerPerhaps there's an incompatibility in the version difference
05:04.46EcnassianerThanks for your help
05:04.56EcnassianerI'll bump my question over to the people in #kontact
05:06.41chino[dev]php is fugly
05:06.49Renzebut at least it isn't java
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05:12.44chino[dev]why use java
05:13.26rohanpmwhy not use Java?  It is sometimes quite suitable for a particular purpose
05:13.56chino[dev]yea its great for many things but i believe he is speaking of web applications
05:14.01rohanpmSuch as deploying a single binary containing your program and all necessary files and having it work on many different platforms
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05:14.25chino[dev]and something that is within php's limits lol
05:14.44rohanpmI couldn't say how good or not Java is for server-side web applications...
05:15.03rohanpmI have actually touched a little JSP and I did not like it at all
05:15.10rohanpmPHP is annoying though
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05:16.28chino[dev]yea im a ruby bitch lately i like rails
05:16.44rohanpmI want to move to static HTML for all my web sites, I've been getting paranoid lately
05:16.52chino[dev]about what ?
05:17.14rohanpmchino[dev]: hack attempts, data loss, etc.
05:17.40rohanpmA buggy PHP script wiping out my entire database
05:17.56chino[dev]im confused how would you get hacked and how would a static file aproach support the capabilties of server side
05:18.26chino[dev]well thats why you backup and thats why you write your own code and you develope on a seperate db
05:19.03rohanpmchino[dev]: well the thing is, I don't really _need_ the capabilities of something like PHP
05:19.17chino[dev]so then why use something like it ?
05:19.29chino[dev]i really dont see "where" your using a db "wihtout" needing one
05:19.33rohanpmI made a poor choice earlier and it's hard to back out of it
05:19.50aseigoi hate updating bunches of html files =/
05:20.31aseigochino[dev]: what do you think about sun hiring those jruby guys?
05:20.31rohanpmaseigo: I'm thinking more like a templating system where the HTML is still generated by a program, but not on-the-fly
05:20.34aseigorohanpm: there's already several of those out there
05:20.37chino[dev]yes i would never use static html for an entire site i love server side for its templating advantages and data storage
05:20.40aseigoe.g. smarty
05:20.48rohanpmaseigo: I know :-)  I meant thinking of moving to one, not writing one :-)
05:20.55aseigoah.. heh
05:21.00aseigowhat are you using now?
05:21.07chino[dev]rohanpm:  i think you mean you dont wnat to use a database but template is "on the fly" lol unles you use caching but thats jst a technicality its still "on the fly"
05:21.07rohanpmaseigo: wordpress
05:21.19aseigorohanpm: well, you could've picked movabletype ;)
05:21.19chino[dev]wtf is wordpress
05:21.26aseigoand be more frustrated
05:21.34aseigochino[dev]: it's blogging software
05:21.50rohanpmI totally regret wordpress, so many string quoting issues which make me nervous about the whole thing
05:22.24aseigostring quoting? hm... one would expect that that would be auditted pretty thoroughly by now given how wide spread its usage is
05:22.30rohanpmI'll put aside some time to switch away in the future
05:23.10chino[dev]try rails
05:23.28rohanpmaseigo: they've definitely fixed _some_ problems, e.g. " no longer always appears as \" when published (that was embarrasingly bad!) but there are definitely still issues, I think they may have introduced more lately, e.g. it has been replacing &lt; and &gt; with < and >, with disastrous results
05:24.35aseigoah.. magic quotes
05:24.40aseigostupidest idea ever, i swear
05:25.44chino[dev]seriously rails is cool you guys should try it
05:26.18rohanpmOnce I had weird "access denied" errors when trying to post something, then I found out that my shared hosting provider blocks any HTTP POST requests containing '#!/bin/sh'... wasn't wordpress' fault, but it took ages to figure it out
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05:27.11chino[dev]you were trying to upload a script ?
05:27.15aseigowow, that's lame of the host provider
05:27.59rohanpmaseigo wins the bet
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05:28.21rohanpmI ended up replacing # with the equivalent HTML entity
05:28.33chino[dev]i like having all my own control f that shit
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05:32.29rohanpmMost of the computer labs at university are dual boot Windows/Fedora
05:32.38rohanpmToday I was in the only Fedora-only lab
05:32.52rohanpmThese guys came in, looked at some computers, were all like "What's this Linux shit?" & walked out
05:33.07rohanpmIt was funny
05:34.09chino[dev]lol what ?
05:34.13chino[dev]what university ?
05:34.22chino[dev]i think thats awesome
05:36.13rohanpmQueensland University of Technology
05:36.28rohanpmThe Linux-only lab is a slum, seriously less than half of the computers are working
05:36.40rohanpmOne of the keyboards has "linux sux" written on it
05:37.02chino[dev]try rails man
05:37.22Shirakawasunarohanpm: sounds like your school has a lot of tools :)
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05:38.56rohanpmShirakawasuna: you bet it does
05:39.19Shirakawasunaguten tag
05:39.33Shirakawasunawir sprechen nur deutsch hier: was machst du denn?
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05:58.07oneforallok if i run that kbuildcoca I get no database avialable ?
05:58.28Renzedoes stuff still work?
06:00.32Renzethen I guess it's not ok
06:02.46oneforallany idea why its saying that.
06:03.04Renzepermissions problems in /var/tmp?
06:03.08oneforallwierd how run that from one user and its good and another it that O.o
06:03.19*** join/#kde njdube (
06:03.26Renzecheck the permissions for /var/tmp/kdecache-<username>
06:04.20njdubeWill KPowersave work with UPSes?
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06:04.55oneforallhey I sorta figured a way to do that copy folder. do like I was then make the folders in the editor and then just drag drop the allready made .desktop files. That works but sometimes its not keeping the same case.
06:05.13oneforallhmm ok
06:05.49oneforallstill no idea where kde is keeping the file that stores the folder ifo
06:06.24oneforallsll I would have to do is add <something>Wine</something> to it
06:09.30oneforallperm in there are for the user  rwx
06:10.01Renzeand ownership?
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06:10.16Renzehow about permissions on the sycoca file itself?
06:10.45oneforall[rw-]   [r--]   [r--]     [killbill       ] [users
06:10.55thiagoRenze: it has to be obviously readable and writable
06:11.02Renzethiago: I know
06:13.20thiagooh, right, that would be oneforall :-)
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06:35.11islamguidedotcomis there a way to read man files graphically from konqueror etc.?
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06:35.28Renzeislamguidedotcom: man:/<manpage>
06:35.45Renzeislamguidedotcom: you can also use it for info pages with info:/
06:36.18tech9inerG'Day Renze
06:36.26Renzehowdy tech
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06:36.44islamguidedotcomRenze, thx wad do u mean by use it FOR info pages?
06:37.37Renzeislamguidedotcom: do you know what info pages are?
06:37.58islamguidedotcomRenze, addition to man pages?
06:38.10Renzeislamguidedotcom: man pages on steroids
06:39.07islamguidedotcomare they distro specific? info:/yum gives some error
06:39.54oneforallwell all thoseare the right perms etc
06:39.56strawmansome error
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06:40.10Renzeislamguidedotcom: is there an info page for yum?
06:40.18strawmanNo info page for topic "yum" found.
06:40.19islamguidedotcomstrawman, err basically not available error
06:40.20strawmanYou may find what you are looking for at the yum manpage.
06:40.49strawmandude, use your gray matter :)
06:40.51oneforallok I need to have export WINEPREFIX=$HOME/.wineAGEII wine "C:\  etc but thats not working
06:41.03Renzestrawman: maybe he doesn't have any? ;)
06:41.11oneforallworkjs from the descktop icon but not the K>Wine> etc
06:44.37islamguidedotcomis there a way to make scrollbars appear at the very edge of the screen instead of one pixel less?
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06:44.46islamguidedotcommakes it harder to grab the bar
06:44.51ma3xhow can I reset kde fonts to defaults?
06:45.17Renzema3x: click the Defaults button, perhaps?
06:46.13ma3xRenze, it sets all to sans serif 10
06:46.26Renzema3x: those are the defaults
06:46.28ma3xwhich is too small, and they all shouldn't be sans serif, right?
06:46.51Renzema3x: so set them to what you want
06:46.52Shirakawasunama3x: that's the defaults :)
06:47.01Shirakawasunama3x: I like Arial size 11
06:47.18ma3xok, and do you use gtk-theme-switch or something?
06:47.25ShirakawasunaBitstream Vera Sans Mono 10 for fixed-width
06:47.34Shirakawasunagtk-theme-switch?  This is KDE
06:47.35ma3xlet me guess, that thing takes control from kde, and drives its look itself right?
06:47.38ma3xthis is kde?
06:47.44Renzema3x: no, I use gtk-qt-engine's kcontrol module
06:47.53Shirakawasunaas do I
06:48.11ma3xok I am installing it now
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06:49.42oneforallso any idea why that doesn't work ?
06:49.44ma3xif I start firefox for eg. or any open other maximized window, there is a big blue border between the maximized window and the taskbar. is there any way to remove it?
06:49.49ma3xand how, if?
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06:50.15oneforallis the menu on working with export WINEPREFIX= ?
06:50.55Renzeit's useless to me
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06:51.26benJImanma3x: depends on the window decoration you're using
06:51.47benJImanma3x: the suse decoration and I think the plastik one will remove the border if you deselect "allow moving of maximised windows"
06:51.48ShirakawasunaI have it installed...not sure why :)
06:51.50oneforallRenze for my kids and their games .
06:52.14oneforallstill better than fixing m$ for them for no pay :D
06:52.39Shirakawasunama3x: I have never had a blue border when maximized
06:53.15ShirakawasunaI've found it's way easier to just restart to play diablo II, etc, than get wine working
06:53.22benJImanI used to use cedega before I released that I was only playing native games anyway
06:54.12Shirakawasunaunless you play FPSs
06:54.18ma3xbenJIman, I'm in the style menu of plastik now. where do you see that option 'allow moving of maximised windows?'
06:54.27Sho_... or anything that requires half a brain
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06:54.41Sho_ma3x: KControl -> Desktop -> Window Behavior -> Moving
06:54.58benJImanma3x: right click -> configure -> moving
06:55.02benJImanor that
06:55.14benJImanif you uncheck that the buttons should move into the corners on maximising too
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06:55.36oneforallSho_ well I was accually thinking of paying for cedga,BUT none of the 3 ga,ed work in it lol . noy kidding iether . couldn't even istall them. After Iworked on it for a few days some one gave me the url that showed that they didn't
06:55.41ma3xSho_, thanks a lot
06:55.44ma3xbenJIman, thanks a lot!
06:55.51oneforallso that made my disition not to buy it easy
06:55.59Sho_oneforall: I seem to be fairly lucky with Cedega ... I have eight games installed in it at the moment, and all work perfectly
06:56.19Sho_oneforall: And despite it being GTK+, their management GUI is actually rather nice these days. They've improved it a lot recently.
06:58.53oneforallwell since i had 3 games to install and none worked it wasn't worth buyuing :D
06:59.16Sho_Which games, btw?
06:59.22oneforallthey all work in wine . sound is a bit choopy sometimes
06:59.57oneforallno kid bought them . after i said check wines page to see if they will work :D do they listen hell no
07:00.00ShirakawasunaSho_: which games do you play, btw?
07:00.14ShirakawasunaI'm always interested in new games...especially if they don't cost me anything :)
07:00.35oneforallAOE2+expantion pack conquorours,Crusader
07:00.45Sho_Shirakawasuna: Mostly real-time/turn-based/4X strategy games, also role-playing games and occassionally shooters
07:01.02ShirakawasunaSho_: found anything free/open source that's good?
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07:01.10Sho_oneforall: Hm, AoE2 works fine in Cedega afaik ... at least it does nowadays
07:01.27ma3xI have about 10 different fonts to choose for the Konsole. they are all small and when I try to increase them they look fat!
07:01.34Sho_Shirakawasuna: Battle of Wesnoth is pretty fun
07:01.43ma3xI had before a decent font, but it's gone now
07:01.45ma3xdunno what happened
07:01.54oneforallwhats sucks about A)E2 and AOC is AOE2 works great with alsa . but AOC soesn't . So I might just put them in 2 prefixes . but AOC still need AOE2 :D
07:02.23oneforallSho_ yeah it might now but still not worth it . wine does great so I'll just stay with it
07:02.23Shirakawasunawine = pain
07:02.29Shirakawasunawine is for masochists :)
07:02.30Sho_oneforall: Apparently the AoE2 installer is a little troublesome, but the game itself works fine
07:02.52oneforallaoe2 installs easy on wine
07:03.12oneforallso does crusader
07:03.15Sho_Shirakawasuna: I just don't want to reboot into Windows just to play games ... for me that's far more painful
07:03.33oneforallthat one they asked me to add to the list cause I don't think its listed
07:04.00oneforallyeah I don't want m$ at all . left it years ago don't miss it at all
07:04.34oneforallnot even for dvd burner . all waorks from linux and dvdauthering
07:04.57oneforallonce in a while i use dvdshrink but not to often
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07:05.22oneforallfor ARccOS stuck with dvddecryptor :(
07:05.46Sho_Unfortunately I do still need to use Windows for work
07:06.07oneforalllove pgcedit . that techniod looking app but use the viewer and it helps me a lot lol
07:07.08oneforallyeah only time I use m$ is when I'm getting payed to fix it
07:08.10oneforallgeez canada post really needs to fix their site, 4 times this week I goto use the calulator and its broke
07:08.12Sho_Unfortunately in my case it's certain software that is missing in Linux :-(
07:09.58ma3xhow do I setup in KDE control panel settings for gtk1 and gtk2?
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07:10.52Renzema3x: why should KDE have options for toolkits it doesn't use? :) gtk-qt-engine supplies a module for gtk2... that's about as close as you're going to get.
07:10.52Sho_ma3x: You can install the gtk-qt-engine, which is two things, first a GTK2 theme that renders using the current KDE theme, and second a nice module for KControl to chose the GTK2 theme and fonts
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07:12.30ShirakawasunaSho_: yes, but you use cedega.  cedega has support :)
07:12.48ma3xand what about gtk1?
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07:12.57Renzema3x: edit your .gtkrc file by hand :D
07:13.00Sho_ma3x: Is there still any relevant software using gtk1?
07:13.03ma3xbecause there are some applications that use gtk1, right?
07:13.15Renzeany apps still using gtk1 should be deleted immediately :D
07:13.15Sho_Shirakawasuna: Cedega is good for games, but not for all software, and neither is Wine
07:13.22Sho_ma3x: Such as?
07:13.54Shirakawasunawine is finally beta, though :)
07:14.19ma3xxmms is using gtk1
07:14.24Shirakawasunama3x: I highly recommend amarok
07:14.25Sho_ma3x: well, XMMS is obsolete
07:14.38Shirakawasunama3x: you will find it much better :)
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07:15.25ma3xbut amarok can't play .ape music
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07:15.50Renzewtf is .ape?
07:15.57Sho_Shirakawasuna: One thing you need to realize is that Microsoft, due to the fact that their platform and most software on that platform is closed source, usually cannot retire old APIs and libraries, which means that Windows applications use an incredibly broad variety of technologies from 15 years of software history, and since a lot of that tech is unmaintained, even rely on quirky bugs to be present
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07:16.27Sho_Shirakawasuna: Due to that, the task Wine is facing is so huge that will most likely simply always fail to run a majority of Windows apps
07:16.31Sho_beta or not
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07:17.19ma3xRenze, monkey audio
07:17.20ShirakawasunaSho_: oh, I know that microsoft is largely to blame for the difficulty wine has emulating it :)
07:17.31Renzema3x: that means nothing to me
07:18.27Shirakawasuna'a proprietary lossless audio format'
07:18.30peppelorumWhy does Kword forgots about my formatting all the time? I edit the styles in style manager, save the document, close and open it and the styles is ignored...
07:18.58Renzebah, use flac instead... it's not proprietary
07:19.02peppelorumUsing 1.5.2
07:19.04Shirakawasunacan't gstreamer play ape?
07:19.18Shirakawasunapeppelorum: #koffice if no one here answers
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07:19.44peppelorumShirakawasuna: thanks
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07:21.07Shirakawasunama3x: why do you use ape instead of flac?
07:21.33ma3xShirakawasuna, I use both
07:21.58Shirakawasunama3x: why not use just flac?  It's free/open and can be played by just about anything linux
07:22.12Shirakawasunama3x: also gstreamer may be able to play flac (amarok can use gstreamer)
07:22.31Sho_ma3x: Amarok can use a variety of player engines in the backend, e.g. Xine and Helix - Amarok itself does not implement support for any audio format. So the question is rather whether one of those engines can play "Ape".
07:23.43Renzesellout! :D
07:25.05Shirakawasunaonce I found that I could use amarok to play streaming radio w/ helix I sold out :/
07:25.51Sho_The radio streams I've seen so far worked fine with the xine engine
07:26.35Shirakawasunanot real media ones
07:26.56Shirakawasunait's a public radio stream, too.  stupid thing
07:27.03Shirakawasunaof course, I AM in seattle....
07:27.36Shirakawasunasweet, they're offering different formats now :)
07:29.17Shirakawasunano ogg...but mp3
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07:30.39ShirakawasunaI mean KUOW doesn't offer ogg :)
07:31.23rohanpmI listen to Ogg Vorbis (NOT OGG!) all the time on my GNU/Linux (NOT LINUX!) machine
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07:32.36XVampireXrohanpm: most people who say ogg mean ogg/vorbis and most people who say linux mean gnu/linux
07:32.51qupadaactually technically you only listen to vorbis, the ogg container tends not to provide anything to the audio coming from your speakers
07:32.57rohanpmXVampireX: Oh!  Thanks.  Everything is much clearer to me now.
07:33.13XVampireXYeah >_<
07:33.30rohanpmActually I think the whole GNU/Linux thing is just dumb
07:33.35Shirakawasunait is
07:33.36Shirakawasunavery very dumb
07:33.41Shirakawasunalike star wars vs star trek
07:34.18rohanpmHow dare you say Star Wars vs Star Trek is dumb, I'm writing my Masters thesis on that
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07:35.08Shirakawasunathey're not even the same genre ;)
07:35.26Shirakawasunawhich is better?  Tolkien or Kill Bill?
07:35.28Sho_Calling it GNU/Linux does solve the problem of explaining that Linux is not an OS, though ;)
07:35.50ma3xsomething's buggy here. I check 'Use another style: Qt' then click apply, and exit. Then when I start KDE Conrol panel 'Use my KDE style is checked again'
07:36.00rohanpmSho_: true
07:36.16rohanpmGNU/Linux is just silly because it's skewed towards the GNU project
07:36.32Sho_ma3x: Well, Qt==Use my KDE Style
07:36.54Sho_rohanpm: Well in times of lines of code, there's likely more GNU code in your Linux distro than in the kernel
07:37.03Sho_*in terms of
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07:37.25qupadaunfortunately 'gnu' and 'linux' don't lend themselves to a contraction,  gnunux just doesn't do it for me
07:37.38rohanpmSho_: oh yeah, sure, I don't mean it is skewed towards GNU over Linux, I mean it is skewed towards GNU over every non-GNU piece of software on my system
07:37.45Shirakawasunait's stupid because it has a slash :)
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07:38.08Shirakawasunayay, my kernel has two names
07:38.24Shirakawasunaone of which is pronounced hilariously
07:38.34Sho_Shirakawasuna: That's probably the best argument against it I've heard so far (the slash thing)
07:39.14Shirakawasunapeople don't expect GNU/Linux to be something as expandable as it is....
07:39.17rohanpmIt is funny to see people talking so seriously, & even having flamewars, about a name which was deliberately chosen to be 'funny'
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07:41.20qupada'gnu' does lend itself to some fairly funny pronounciations
07:41.39qupadamind you, i've heard a few people with some interesting interpretations of 'linux' too
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07:42.08qupadayeah, there are people who take it to have a silent g sound though... 'noo'
07:42.14ShirakawasunaI think the stupid names are distracting :)
07:42.46ma3xhm, just noticed: when I change one of the fonts and then click apply, 'Use another font' is autochecked, instead of 'use my kde fonts in gtk applications'
07:42.53ma3xis that bug or can you explain it?
07:42.57Sho_I'd say Gnome is worse than GNU, pronounciation-wise .. ;)
07:43.05Shirakawasunagnome is pretty bad, too
07:43.12ShirakawasunaKDE has its stupid K apps
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07:43.39Sho_The K apps aren't that stupid, on the whole - users do rely on it to tell whether an app is going to work well on their KDE desktop
07:43.44Sho_In that sense it has been successful
07:44.15Sho_besides, "Konversation" is the best k-name ever
07:44.22Japsuk-names are stupid
07:44.28ShirakawasunaI don't dislike the K names as much as gnu/linux
07:44.35Japsuthough I made one up myself, too
07:44.36Shirakawasunathey're tolerable if not still silly
07:44.42rabaukeHello! Can anyone tell me which window decoration and style is used in the filelight screenshot?
07:45.00Japsu"telephonik"... the software doesn't do anything yet though :)
07:45.02ma3xis 'use antialiased fonts' good?
07:45.07Japsuma3x: yes
07:45.12Japsuma3x: it makes fonts look better
07:45.14Shirakawasunarabauke: the window decoration looks like the one that comes w/ compiz
07:45.26Shirakawasunarabauke: I think the style is QtCurve
07:45.28Sho_See, if you had asked me, I would have said "no / it makes fonts look worse" :)
07:45.33Sho_So, try and see for yourself
07:45.50Shirakawasunarabauke: QtCurve is very cool :O)
07:46.00rohanpmI don't like antialiasing on non-LCDs
07:46.06rabaukeI had a look at, thanks, I'll look again
07:46.23Japsuyeah well I don't support CRTs any more :)
07:46.31Shirakawasunarabauke: I've tried finding that window dec before.  Tell me if you find a native one
07:46.33rabaukeBTW Konversation is not a K-name but an actual word, in some languages :)
07:46.42Japsuall my displays are quite flat
07:46.51qupadarabauke: likewise 'konsole'
07:46.53Sho_rabauke: Its current maintainer happens to be German ;)
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07:47.24Sho_rabauke: As was the original project founder
07:47.38Shirakawasunaund das ist warum ich die K-named austehen kann
07:47.51qupadacontrary to some people's opinions too, there are actually some apps that have a k, but are perfect english words.  'kitchensync' comes to mind
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07:48.21Shirakawasunanot limiting yourself to K can produce some cool sounding apps, though :)
07:49.00Sho_yeah, like iAnything ... ;)
07:49.01rabaukeone should not force it, but the k is a well known hint to KDE, so useful in terms of the brand
07:49.47qupadasome of the names are just plain clever too, it has to be said.  'akregator' is a particularly well done name if you ask me
07:50.05Sho_Hm, Akregator is one of the worse ones IMO
07:50.29Sho_Replacing gg with k is just ... forced
07:50.32Shirakawasunaeveryone knows that iSuck is a dumb naming system, too :)
07:50.54rohanpmI like Akregator, but I can't think of any other word which has a k followed by an r... it's not natural to say
07:51.04Shirakawasunagnome's newer applets/apps may have some silly names, but I still prefer ala carte to akregator
07:51.22Shirakawasunahow about KRSS?
07:51.27qupadarohanpm: 'crayon' produces exactly the same sound
07:51.55rohanpmqupada: ah, good.  now I do know of one :-)  although, it being at the beginning of the word makes it easier I think
07:52.20Sho_Ak'regator ... sounds Klingon
07:52.45rohanpmWell, Klingons would use KDE obviously
07:52.46Shirakawasunait just sounds stupid :)
07:52.51rohanpmJust look at the name of their species
07:52.54Sho_Klingon Desktop Environment, indeed
07:52.58Shirakawasunait's hard to even think of pronouncing it :)
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07:56.40Shirakawasunain case anyone cares, my kuroo experience was one of failure :)
07:57.02qupadaShirakawasuna: doesn't in the least suprise me
07:57.21Sho_worked fine here
07:57.59ShirakawasunaSho_: I dare you to let it touch package.keywords ;)
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07:58.16Shirakawasunaon the other hand it did alphabetize it
07:58.30Shirakawasunathen again it un-~-versioned everything
07:59.14Shirakawasunaa couple more releases and I'll try it again
07:59.54Shirakawasunaso...why aren't you just running ~x86? :)
08:00.20ShirakawasunaI've gotten my desktop down to 3 entries
08:00.23Sho_well, if I were running ~x86, I'd often have to package.mask a lot of crap that isn't ready yet
08:00.35Sho_And I prefer it the other way around, to selectively unmask what I know I want from testing
08:00.42Shirakawasunamakes sense
08:00.48ShirakawasunaI was mostly just making fun of you :)
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08:04.58Tomasuinteresting little nugget: kate --version: Kate: 2.5.4
08:05.10Tomasushould that not be 3.5.4?
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08:05.21Sho_Tomasu: KDE applications have their own version numbers
08:05.24Shirakawasuna2.5.2, here
08:05.29Tomasumost dont...
08:05.34Sho_Tomasu: Most do
08:05.38Tomasuthe fact that its one number off...
08:05.38ShirakawasunaI think kate is version 2
08:05.56Shirakawasunamy kwrite is version 4.5.2
08:06.00Tomasujust looked weird
08:06.05Sho_Tomasu: The Kate version number is unrelated to KDEs version number
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08:06.27TomasuI see...
08:06.28Sho_Tomasu: BTW your Konsole is 1.6.4 ;)
08:06.35Tomasuyeah, just saw that
08:06.40Sho_Your Akregator is 1.2.4 :)
08:07.07Tomasuwith it having the exact minor and sub version it looks suspicious...
08:07.12Sho_better yet, your Kopete is 0.11.4
08:07.33Sho_unless your distro replaced it with the seperately released 0.12.x
08:08.01Tomasunope, I seem to be running 11.3 actually
08:08.28Sho_I wasn't 100% sure what version is in 3.5.4 - I'm running 0.12.2 atm
08:08.49Sho_The Kopete team released a 0.12 seperately at some point between KDE 3.5.2 and KDE 3.5.3
08:08.49Tomasuyeah, I thought I was.. probably just havent bothred since 3.5.4
08:09.02Sho_KDE 3.5.5 will have 0.12.2, 3.5.4 still shipped 0.11.x
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08:09.38Tomasugod I wish this build of boost would finish... its all headers.. how long can it take to compile headers? :o
08:09.51Renze57 years
08:10.05Tomasuseems like it.
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08:11.31Shirakawasunaoh yeah
08:11.41benJIman|workkopete being in kdenetwork is a pain
08:11.48ShirakawasunaI'm looking forward to any new processor, gah
08:11.55Shirakawasunaanything but me thunderbird
08:12.07RenzeSho_: buy one for me too
08:12.17Tomasuyeah, I could use a couple
08:12.34Tomasuthe best I can do is a new X2 3800 939
08:12.34Sho_Renze: dream on :P
08:12.38Tomasuand in about a month...
08:12.45RenzeSho_: I shall! ;)
08:12.46Tomasusince I need a gfx card and mobo for that >:(
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08:13.29ShirakawasunaI'm looking at a sff PC....btw: P4 or celeron D?
08:13.45ShirakawasunaI've heard a lot of hate about lot about celerons too
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08:15.31hagabakawhy is Kmail really slow when "receiving" mail from a local mailbox?
08:18.13tuxickkmail using 99% cpu on a large mail :)
08:18.21Renzehagabaka: I used to use fetchmail to grab all my mail to my local spool... kmail would import it very fast
08:18.29tuxickthis beast needs work :/
08:18.50Renzetuxick: you have access to the source... make it better :)
08:19.12tuxickRenze: past 10 years i've run into at least 100 projects that need fixing
08:19.16hagabakafor me it's much slower than remote accounts, and kmail gets very unresponsive
08:19.18tuxicki've got bills to pay
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08:19.37Shirakawasunatuxick: you could always pick one :)
08:20.16bluelightningI think with all of the changes behind the scenes kmail will improve quite a bit in kde4
08:20.33hagabakawould it be possible to let kmail just read the mail in place, instead of copying to another mbox?
08:20.33ShirakawasunaKDE4, the nerds' holy grail
08:20.41tuxickShirakawasuna: i'm on at least 30 mailinglists, just to report damn bugs
08:20.53Shirakawasunatuxick: that sounds like enough to me :)
08:20.54tuxicknot to mention the vast amount of bugtrackers i'm on
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08:21.30tuxickhagabaka: use imap!
08:22.05hagabakai tried it, but the imapd on my distro is really badly documented
08:22.07Tomasutuxick: please don't tell me you use bugzilla.. the bug tracker from hell :o
08:22.43hagabakait presented my whole home directory to Kmail, and i didn't know how to change that
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08:23.10tuxickTomasu: even kde project uses that thing :/
08:23.24Sho_tuxick: A considerably modified version, however
08:23.25tuxicki think bugzilla is why open source projects stay broken
08:23.36tuxickit discourages people from reporting bugs
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08:23.39tuxickSho_: granted
08:23.40Tomasutuxick: hence why I rarely post bugs I find. bugzilla is more annoying than most software bugs.
08:23.45Fly_101whats wrong with bugzilla ?
08:23.45bluelightningtuxick: I'd have to agree
08:23.46tuxickZARRO BOOGS
08:23.54hagabakabugzilla discourages people from reporting bugs?
08:23.55tuxickFly_101: it's the worst user interface ever
08:23.56bluelightningthough kde's modified one is a lot better
08:24.04tuxickmaybe after mailmain web interface
08:24.07Tomasuits still bugzilla.
08:24.08tuxickbluelightning: quite
08:24.18Sho_Well, to be honest, if someone is too lazy to use Bugzilla, their bug reports would most likely tend to be non-useful anyway
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08:24.21Fly_101im sure theres more many open source bug reporting software's out there
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08:24.31tuxickmantis is nice
08:24.44Fly_101though' i dont need anything like that
08:24.49bluelightningI like mantis, but its searching interface isn't that great
08:24.51TomasuSho_: its not about being lazy, its about an interface being incomprehensible, and a pain in the but.
08:25.03Tomasulike gnome ;)
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08:25.36Sho_Tomasu: Well, fix it then ... the kde-www team always needs helpers, and a new version of BKO is in the works currently
08:25.57Tomasufix gnome? why? ;)
08:26.10Sho_But aside from the slightly confusing app search, the wizard isn't hat incomprehensible, IMO ...
08:26.23Tomasubesides, Im not a kde member, I dislike web dev, and I have other responsibilites
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08:26.27hagabakai think most bugzillas have the best interfaces among web applications
08:26.38Fly_101what language is Smoke written in ???
08:27.14Tomasucurrently I'm hacking away at a script to convert a open source lib's wiki from twiki to mediawiki... its not been fun.
08:27.55Sho_Fly_101: Perl, IIRC
08:28.10Fly_101Sho_: wtf
08:28.19Tomasugreat. boost failed ::)
08:28.20Fly_101Smoke is written in Perl ?
08:28.21Tomasustupid pita
08:28.39Sho_Fly_101: Smoke is a code generator, and that generator happens to be a bunch of Perl scripts, yes
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08:29.01Tomasuand parsing and groking text is what perl does best.
08:29.03Japsuwhat's smoke
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08:29.10Fly_101Sho_: i am talking about Smoke the thing that easily lets you write bindings so you can use KDE drawing widgets
08:29.17TomasuJapsu: binding generator iirc.
08:29.22hagabakaif wiki software were good, they should all generate semantic HTML, so that it would be very easy for them to take another wiki page and revert to its own syntax
08:29.26Sho_Japsu: A code generator for bindings of programming languages to kdelibs and Qt
08:29.29Sho_Fly_101: So do I
08:29.30Japsuhmm the thing they used to write qt-ruby?
08:29.48Tomasuhagabaka: itd be difficult to handle all the revisions that way...
08:30.05Fly_101well im going to try and write a Ocaml KDE library if its possible with little hassle
08:30.27hagabakathat's a good point
08:30.38TomasuI wonder how I can instlal net-im/kopete allong side kde-base/kdenetwork....
08:31.03JapsuI still haven't really understood how a graphical user interface can ever fit in the functional programming paradigm :P
08:31.23hagabakabut if they manage to do it without worry about revisions correctly, then it would be easy to use another program to automate the revisions too
08:31.25Fly_101Japsu: are you calling ocaml a functional language ?
08:31.44Sho_Japsu: Try reading the glib source and discover that you can't understand how because it doesn't work
08:31.45hagabakaugh i'm saying gibberish
08:31.50hagabakagood night
08:31.52ShirakawasunaTomasu: I shall be of assistance
08:32.03JapsuFly_101: I know it's not pure functional like haskell, but it's still regarded a "functional language" afaik
08:32.06TomasuShirakawasuna: \o/
08:32.07ShirakawasunaTomasu: you don't.  You emerge -C kdenetwork
08:32.11Tomasuum, no
08:32.19TomasuIm not about to rebuild kde AGAIN
08:32.22ShirakawasunaTomasu: or is this another distro?
08:32.28Fly_101Japsu: you can program however you want C like C++ OO like or Functional like Haskell like
08:32.29JapsuTomasu: lol that's what ccache is for
08:32.32ShirakawasunaTomasu: that's the only way you can do it not-painfully
08:32.35Tomasuand the full install of kde-meta would take for bloddy ever
08:32.41TomasuJapsu: still would take a while.
08:32.57JapsuTomasu: sure, but a while < ages
08:33.00ShirakawasunaTomasu: using non-meta and non-split KDE packages is silly
08:33.15Tomasuusing packages not the way KDE distributes them is silly
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08:33.34Sho_Tomasu: Then don't do a full install, but merely replace kdenetwork with kdenetwork-meta
08:33.35Tomasuhaving to constantly decompress and reconfigure every single sub lib and project is INSANE
08:33.46Sho_Tomasu: Then use confcache
08:33.52Tomasuits been removed
08:33.57Tomasuand masked iirc
08:34.10Tomasudeosnt fix the actual problem anyhow
08:34.34Sho_Tomasu: Well it does fix your particular problem of replacing Kopete ;)
08:34.51ShirakawasunaTomasu: no it's not
08:34.52Tomasufor gentoo's split packages to be "proper", theyd need to split up the packages themselves. then itd be cool.
08:35.17ShirakawasunaTomasu: emerge -C kdenetwork and emerge explicitly the network packages you still want
08:35.19Tomasu*  dev-util/confcache [ Masked ]
08:35.28TomasuI want them all.
08:35.31Shirakawasunadon't use confcache
08:35.51TomasuI dont...
08:36.03ShirakawasunaTomasu: then emerge kdenetwork-meta
08:36.12Shirakawasunaconfcache is known to be broken/buggy
08:36.16Tomasuwhich takes about 5x longer than kdenetwork
08:37.31bluelightningtrouble is, the non-split packages sometimes lag behind the split ones when a new release comes out
08:37.38ShirakawasunaTomasu: only when you want to redo kopete next time you won't have to deal with the stupid kdenetwork package
08:37.41bluelightningI am running a partly split, partly non-split install here
08:37.45bluelightningseems to work ok
08:38.02Fly_101Japsu: but Ocaml can be used and is used as a functional language most of the time .......its one of its kind
08:38.09Fly_101i use an iterative way though
08:38.11TomasuShirakawasuna: they should have done it properly in the first place.
08:38.13Fly_101with some OO elements
08:38.14ShirakawasunaTomasu: seriously, split ebuilds is THE way to do it.  Might as well get used to it, too, as KDE4 is going to be split ebuilds/meta only
08:38.29Tomasuinstead of this stupid broken method they started using for xmms, and then kde...
08:38.35ShirakawasunaTomasu: they gave you a guide - you should have read the KDE guide and then went w/ split ebuilds
08:38.58Tomasumy "server" is using split just cause it only has a small subset of the packages.
08:39.10rohanpmI much prefer non-split ebuilds
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08:39.46Tomasuagain, they should have implemented the split pacckages PROPERLY. you know instead of decompressing huge archives and reconfigureing them for each sub ebuild.
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08:41.20TomasuI remember back when I still used xmms... it took longer to install 2 split xmms plugins than to install the entire non split version.
08:41.42valdermanCould someone help me with a simple keyboard problem?
08:42.00hagabakasplit ebuilds means package per application?
08:42.09Tomasuaye. and per lib.
08:42.25hagabakawould KDE4 be that way for most other distros too?
08:42.52Tomasuif kde distros everything the same as they do now, no. not even in gentoo.
08:43.13Tomasugentoo downloads the same monolithic packages, and just treats certian packages as split...
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08:44.09benJIman|workmost distros split kde to a certain extent, gentoo more than others
08:44.14hagabakai wish they'd split things up in the build system. there are so many programs i have installed but never use
08:44.18benJIman|workgentoo also seems to have more problems with it than others
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08:44.51Tomasuthe idea is GREAT.
08:44.56Tomasuthe implementation, very poor.
08:45.24Tomasumaybe it has to do with the entire portage system being coded in python, and bash?
08:45.25valdermanAfter starting a KDE session, I'm unable to type international (more specifically, Swedish) characters. However, the keyboard layout isn't US, since other keys such as < and ' are where I expect them to be
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08:45.39valdermanDeleting .kde temporarily fixes the problem
08:46.04valdermanI'm using Debian testing/AMD64 with KDE from the unstable repository, version 3.5.4 IIRC
08:46.14valdermanAnyone have any idea what causes this?
08:46.21hagabakais Gentoo "allowed" to split up the source packages?
08:46.43Tomasuthey patch it, so why not?
08:46.52Sho_Tomasu: They don't
08:47.02Tomasugentoo aplies patches to everything afaik
08:47.05Sho_Tomasu: They apply patches, yes, but leave the original tarballs unmodified
08:47.22Sho_Tomasu: And they patch KDE a lot less than just about any other distro, for that matter
08:47.34Tomasuyeah, they dont customize it much at all
08:47.45Tomasubut they will add some bug fixes
08:47.53hagabakawhat about Slackware? :)
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08:49.25Tomasuum, other distros split up packages into separate "rpm"s or whatnot. I dont see why gentoo cant.
08:50.04Renzesplitting up source is much harder than binaries
08:50.05Sho_Tomasu: Gentoo does not use rpms or whatnot
08:50.13Tomasusame idea. packages are packages.
08:50.18Sho_Tomasu: No
08:50.24Renzenot even close
08:50.24Sho_Tomasu: Gentoo has no "packages" in that sense
08:50.30Tomasuto me it does.
08:50.49Sho_Tomasu: a Gentoo "package" is a text file, a so-called "ebuild", that contains a recipe how to unpack, configure, compile and install an original source tarball
08:50.56Tomasuit provides easily installed _packages_ for the user to install.
08:51.05TomasuSho_: bash script actually.
08:51.08RenzeTomasu: an ebuild is nothing like an rpm
08:51.17Sho_Tomasu: Yes, and the ease of use does not rise or fall with how the tarballs it uses look like
08:51.22Tomasuthe ebuilds are bash
08:51.57Tomasuif they were python, I bet portage/emerge would be alot faster...
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08:52.17Sho_Tomasu: You need to realize that using the original source tarballs is one of the reasons why many people use Gentoo to begin with
08:52.33tech9inermoin Sho_
08:52.35Sho_Tomasu: It's one of the core attributes that make the distro what it is
08:52.38Tomasuthey use it because they like compiling stuff ;)
08:52.40RenzeTomasu: portage is written entirely in python
08:52.47Sho_Tomasu: Exactly
08:52.51TomasuRenze: portage yes, ebuilds NOT
08:53.16Sho_Tomasu: And "compiling stuff" is particularly attractive when you want to modify the ebuild to apply own patchsets, which is just easier when it uses the original tarballs instead of some Gentoo concoctions
08:53.17TomasuSho_: splitting one massive package into several smaller ones doesnt really change anything. except save time installing it
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08:53.43Sho_Tomasu: To be honest, maybe you should just look into a binary distro
08:53.49rohanpmTomasu: why would that save time installing it?
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08:54.33Tomasurohanpm: split ebuilds need you to uncompress and configure the main tar ball each time you install a split package thats apart of the main ebuild.
08:55.09TomasuSho_: I've been using gentoo for a good 2 years now, was on debian... I like gentoo. I dislike the way the kde split ebuilds work
08:55.41hagabakai think that's limited by KDE and Gentoo's principles
08:55.52ShirakawasunaTomasu: because you don't quite get the benefits ;)
08:56.08TomasuI get them on my server, but its still awefully dirty.
08:56.21ShirakawasunaTomasu: while it may take longer to do the first compile of all of KDE, if you wanted to say upgrade kopete like you want to do now it only requires recompiling 1 package
08:56.26TomasuI like elegant. the split ebuilds are FAR from it.
08:56.47TomasuShirakawasuna: it could take even less time if it didnt have to use the original tarball.
08:56.53ShirakawasunaTomasu: given that statement you should stay away from gentoo ;)
08:56.54Tomasuand less disk space. :o
08:57.14Tomasuits the same diff.
08:57.20Tomasusame code, modified build scripts.
08:57.34Shirakawasunaso you can patch upstream
08:57.41Tomasuthings can still be patched.
08:57.51TomasuI didnt say they had to make a fork or anything.
08:58.10Tomasujust make some automated way of spliting the tarballs prior to releasing a new ebuild
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08:58.58vehbiI cant find  show desktop icon , how can can I add it to toolbar
08:59.09Shirakawasunavehbi: which toolbar?
08:59.19Tomasuif split is such a good idea, why doesnt KDE do it that way?
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09:00.03Shirakawasunaother distros don't need to recompile/don't have USE flags
09:00.21Tomasuthat has nothing to do with split packages.
09:00.22Sho_Tomasu: Mostly because it makes development easier
09:00.24Shirakawasunasomewhat like asking 'why don't all distros act exactly like gentoo'?
09:00.31RenzeTomasu: go ahead and try splitting up one of the KDE tarballs in such a way that they all still build, then come back and talk about how easy it should be.
09:00.35Tomasudistros release kde in split form...
09:00.51vehbiShirakawasuna, : not toolbar , I forget it is name, the bar which is under the screen , on it icons,clock,....
09:00.52TomasuRenze: hey, it "should" be easy ;)
09:01.03Shirakawasunavehbi: the bottom panel :)
09:01.09RenzeTomasu: as binary, it IS easy... as source it's a pain in the ass
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09:01.16hagabakaor Slackware it's one package per one source tarball. kde-networks, kde-pim, etc
09:01.18TomasuI wonder why...
09:01.19Shirakawasunavehbi: right click on it > add applet > show desktop :0
09:01.20vehbiShirakawasuna, ::)
09:01.26RenzeTomasu: if you can't realise this, you're not as smart as I thought you were
09:01.44Tomasueach part should have its separate structure...
09:01.55Tomasuif it doesnt, things are way to interdependant.
09:02.10Tomasuhey, if Xorg could, kde can.
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09:02.20Sho_Doesn't mean KDE has to or wants to
09:02.23vehbiShirakawasuna, :it is ok
09:02.23RenzeXorg is less complicated than KDE
09:02.33Shirakawasunavehbi: did it work?
09:02.42TomasuSho_: but its what everyone wants... and its such a good idea.
09:02.49TomasuRenze: X is less complicated? :o
09:02.51vehbiShirakawasuna, :yes I didnt know that it was an applet
09:02.53TomasuI doubt that.
09:03.00RenzeTomasu: MUCH less complicated
09:03.01Shirakawasunavehbi: ah, good
09:03.04vehbiI think that it is a program on its own
09:03.09Sho_Tomasu: For your convenience on a niche distro that nobody who really matters uses: perhaps
09:03.14Shirakawasunavehbi: yep, it's an applet
09:03.25TomasuX is a 20 year old beast with so much cruft you wouldnt know what to do with.
09:03.58Tomasuniche distro?
09:04.04RenzeTomasu: yet it is considerably less complicated than KDE, because in essence it does a lot less
09:04.07Sho_X isn't that crufty these days, and getting less crufty every week
09:04.21Tomasuja. the split helped ALOT
09:04.22Sho_Thanks to the fork :)
09:04.34ShirakawasunaTomasu's idea is like my idea for binary gentoo - kinda nice but wholly unworkable/undesirable use of time :)
09:04.42TomasuRenze: each part of kde cant be more complex :P
09:04.52vehbiare there any distributions which uses smt like microsoft gui api? not X
09:04.56RenzeTomasu: KDE as a whole is more complex
09:05.07Tomasuas a whole, but its already split up into the sub packages
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09:05.48Sho_Tomasu: KDE receives a number of benefits from being organized in modules, in my personal opinion. It heightens integration and synergy between related applications by encouraging them to come up and use shared frameworks, for example. There are multiple examples of that in the PIM module, but also in the games module and others. KDE would be less well integrated if it weren't organized into modules.
09:06.00rohanpmThe split ebuilds aren't really done correctly... I submitted this somewhat amusing bug a while ago...
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09:06.10Shirakawasunafor once it's not my hair-brained idea getting picked apart
09:06.12rohanpmSadly no-one has touched it
09:06.51hagabakabut within the sub packages there are many dependencies. kopete has this hook to kmail, and kmail has one to kopete, and both use kaddressbook...
09:07.09Sho_hagabaka: And that's a good thing
09:07.09Tomasuthats what dependency checking package managers are for.
09:07.16Shirakawasunarohanpm: perhaps we should make the severity 'Critical' ;)
09:07.26Sho_If they were released seperately, developers would naturally try to minimize dependencies
09:07.41Sho_This way, they are free to be interdependent as much as they want within their module
09:07.45Sho_It makes KDE better.
09:07.45hagabakato split them up, every package would need to check for a lot of information. that's probably KDE distributes them together
09:07.46Tomasuthey dont need to be developed separately...
09:07.51rohanpmShirakawasuna: a good way to get yelled at :-)
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09:08.23Ayabaraanyone using kdbg here?
09:08.25Shirakawasunarohanpm: have you posted on the forums?
09:08.35Sho_Ayabara: #kde-devel is probably a better place to ask
09:08.44Tomasuand besides, if you checkout the right folders when svn'ing a single kde program down, it builds and behaves just fine.
09:08.48Shirakawasunasometimes people get more attention when they post on the forums
09:08.48rohanpmShirakawasuna: about that bug, you mean?  No
09:08.55AyabaraSho_: thanks
09:09.00Shirakawasunarohanpm: perhaps #gentoo-dev, even
09:09.20Shirakawasunarohanpm: also, your bug is hilarious
09:09.30Sho_Tomasu: Not quite. You need to check out a module and an app sub dir, not a single app folder. And if it happens to have dependencies on shared frameworks or other apps within that same module, you have to get those, too.
09:09.34rohanpmShirakawasuna: Too many gentoo devs are quite abrasive, I'd rather just ignore the problem if no-one looks at the bug
09:10.04TomasuSho_: in many cases, I just grab the admin folder and the app, it seems to work fine.  for those cases where it needs the module dir, that could be fixed..
09:10.07Sho_rohanpm: Diego 'flameeyes' Petteno usually has an open mind and ear
09:10.16Sho_Tomasu: But it shouldn't be fixed
09:10.17Shirakawasunarohanpm: I s'pose.  Plus, KDE4 will be here soon...within 6 months, eh?
09:10.22Sho_there is nothing to fix
09:10.25hagabakaTomasu: the thing is kde developers prefer the current distribution method, or splitting is too difficult, and Gentoo does build scripts, not repackaged source packages.
09:10.28Sho_'fixing' it would make KDE worse :-)
09:10.29TomasuSho_: it can't hurt anything, only help
09:10.44TomasuI dont see how it would make kde "worse" ::)
09:10.56Tomasuit would make it easier to package things separately, thats all.
09:11.00Sho_Well, scroll up, I explained it
09:11.20Sho_Packaging things seperately is just not a concern, really
09:11.30TomasuI saw that, I dont belive it will make people automatically think everything cant depend on other kde libs ::)
09:13.03Sho_It's really quite simple: If you put related applications into modules and tell developers they can count on everything in that module being published together, what happens is a natural synergy where the different apps come up with ways to write shared frameworks and reuse as much code as possible, which results in direct benefits for users in the form of tighter integration
09:13.25TomasuIm talking build scripts, not the code.
09:13.32rohanpmShirakawasuna: actually I wonder if there are other packages like that... there could be quite a few, I only noticed that one because I happened to be watching during the merge to the filesystem
09:13.47Sho_If you do away with that, and tell developers that every piece is released on its own, they'll start getting "Not Invented Here Syndrome" and try to minimzie outside dependencies and reinvent the wheel
09:13.54Shirakawasunarohanpm: I bet/hope that split KDE4 will be a bit more refined :)
09:13.57Sho_Which results in less integration and more bugs
09:13.59Tomasuthe code wouldny be on its own ...
09:14.07Tomasuyou just assume it will be.
09:14.14Sho_It's a simple matter of project dynamics and developer psychology
09:14.18Tomasuyou want to use libfoo in your program? use it.
09:14.30Shirakawasunarohanpm: perhaps you could equery files everything, grep for the number of lines in each command, then show the ones with the fewest number
09:15.43Tomasukde can and should still publish all the standard kde stuff at the same time, together. however making it easier to build them in a split fashion would be quite nice.
09:16.44benJIman|workother distros manage to split it up as sensible
09:16.50benJIman|workgentoo goes to extremes and it causes problems
09:17.00Sho_benJIman|work: Not really, it works just fine in Gentoo
09:17.18benJIman|workSho_: yet problems with it are probably the most FAQ in here
09:17.21benJIman|worknot sure that's "just fine"
09:17.21Sho_benJIman|work: What Tomasu is whining about is Gentoo's policy to use original source tarballs, which means the module tarballs are extracted for each split package, which causes some overhead
09:17.32Tomasuand the configure step
09:17.40Tomasuthat takes an age for the big kde tar balls
09:17.44benJIman|workSho_: other distributions do that too for split packages
09:17.56benJIman|workexcept they'll have one src rpm which produces multiple binaries for example
09:18.02Sho_Tomasu: Right, and how would seperate app tarballs change the configure step? ;)
09:18.12Tomasubetter build system?
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09:18.23Tomasuautotools needs to die imo
09:18.28Sho_benJIman|work: Yeah, which is why Tomasu is whining about KDE not releasing seperate app tarballs, and I'm explaining why I believe that to be a bad idea
09:18.39Sho_Tomasu: KDE4 will use CMake rather than autotools
09:18.53TomasuI didnt say kdes policy to release monolithic tars was a bad idea and shouldnt be done :P
09:18.58Tomasuyoure reading too much into this :P
09:19.05Tomasuand yes, I know about the cmake switch
09:19.13TomasuI'm on the kde blog rss feed ;)
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09:20.56rohanpmI'm not convinced CMake is a good idea
09:21.01Sho_benJIman|work: Most of the FAQ traffic stems from the fact that Gentoo continues to publish two sets of ebuilds, monolithic and split, and people are often either not aware of the difference or of the existance of one or the other
09:21.28Tomasurohanpm: how so?
09:21.42Tomasuanything is better than autotools. even bash scripts.
09:21.52annmarohanpm: there's no perfect build system anyway
09:21.53ShirakawasunaSho_: indeed
09:22.06annmarohanpm: CMake is fast and easy
09:22.07Shirakawasunaonce KDE4 goes stable those problems should go away, I'd imagine
09:22.13Shirakawasunaprobably a year away at least, though :/
09:22.22Sho_annma: Hm, I've read a lot of bad things about CMake's speed recently, though ...
09:22.37rohanpmCMake seems basically "weird" the same way etc are "weird"
09:22.38TomasuId suspect that a project as large as kde using it, would solidify cmake up nicely.
09:22.49rohanpmweird syntax, weird way of doing things
09:22.55annmaSho_: yes? well, on my use for KDE it's way quicker than automake
09:22.55Tomasuyou would like m4 then.
09:23.05Renzerohanpm: we need voodoo to keep the mystery alive :D
09:23.10Sho_the CMake syntax is very weird, that is true
09:23.18annmaSho_: of course you will read everything and its contrary on the internet
09:23.24Sho_annma: True dat ;)
09:23.28annmawhy weird?
09:23.43annmano weirder than automake for the totally newbie that I am
09:23.51Sho_annma: Having to repeat the condition of an if clause at the end of it, things like that
09:24.04annmacome on
09:24.05Tomasuam/m4 is just horrible. I have to mess with auto* often enough...
09:24.12annmai am making a KDE4 template
09:24.22annmai managed to do the CMakefile easily
09:24.27Sho_annma: Well, it may be better than automake, but while we're shooting for the stars it would have been nice if the CMake guys hat not chosen to reinvent the wheel on script syntax ;)
09:24.38Sho_*had not
09:24.42rohanpmannma: I agree, it's not "weirder" than automake, I say it's equally weird, so why switch?
09:24.56annmarohanpm: it has many advantages
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09:24.59annmaone is the sped
09:25.09TomasuI started using this build "system", and prefer it to anything Ive seen so far:
09:25.09annmaautomake was VERY slow
09:25.15Tomasuone dependency, C89
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09:25.18Sho_rohanpm: Well, CMake is easier than autotools, that's true
09:25.30annmaTomasu: you could have presented it for kde
09:25.37Tomasuits a little new for that I think
09:25.41annmaanyone was invited to contribute
09:25.49annmaTomasu: yes, that's it
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09:25.51Sho_Too bad scons/bksys didn't work out
09:25.55rohanpmThere is something I like better about CMake than autotools, which is that it's newer and hence less crufty
09:25.58Sho_I would have loved to have a Python-based build system ;)
09:26.00annmaCMake people are working hard for one thing
09:26.01chabwhat are the advantages of kded running and those of having killed all kded?
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09:26.22annmaSho_: well ita was alone on it
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09:26.26rohanpmCMake is all done with one syntax, not a bunch of different tools using their own weird macros and scripts, which is nice
09:26.27Sho_chab: The advantage of having kded running is that your KDE works properly, the advantage of killing kded is non-existant :-)
09:27.12chabSho_: what won't work without kded?
09:27.18Tomasuannma: new as in, It was written not too long ago.. after the kde switch decision was done iirc.
09:27.42Tomasuthat and Im not sure its "profesional" enough for that ;) its a single C file that can be run as a shell script.
09:27.42annmaTomasu: well if it is very good it might be kde5 build system
09:27.46Sho_chab: kded provides a number of important information and coordination services to applications and the environment
09:27.58Tomasuits quite flexible. but simple.
09:28.06annmathe move from automake was not done in a rush
09:28.13rohanpmAnyway, there are some experienced KDE hackers whom I respect who say CMake is a good choice, I'll just trust they know what they're talking about
09:28.21Renzewhatever happened to unsermake?
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09:28.41TomasuRenze: doesnt that just generate cmake stuff or something?
09:28.45TomasuI cant recall
09:28.45chabSho_: such as?
09:28.59RenzeTomasu: no, it was a build system they tried about before choosing cmake
09:29.10annmaRenze: unsermake was not an option, i don't remember why, maybe lack of devel
09:29.20Renzeyeah, that's understandable
09:29.28Tomasuweird that some docs seem to say that unsermake is in use...
09:29.30annmayou need a maintainer for it
09:29.35benJIman|workthere was bksys too
09:29.36rohanpmunsermake was like "make + coloured output"
09:29.44benJIman|workunsermake did progress bars too
09:29.44annmaunsermake is in use for kde 3.5
09:29.54Tomasuthats why.
09:29.59benJIman|workand was far far faster than building with standard make
09:30.05annmaunserrmake can be in use, to be precise
09:30.13annmaalong with automake
09:30.26Sho_chab: System configuration caching (menus, MIME types), removable storage handling, network connection status, ...
09:30.58Sho_chab: Print daemon, battery monitoring ...
09:31.02Sho_chab: Favicon handling
09:31.06Sho_chab: cookie handling
09:31.10Sho_chab: password caching
09:31.17Sho_chab: SSL certificate handling
09:31.20Sho_chab: The list goes on
09:31.29annmaanyway, all of you who would like to try the new KDE4 development, I am making a template of a simple KDE app
09:31.29Tomasukde dies without some of the kded daemons ...
09:31.38Tomasuannma: \o/
09:31.39Sho_cuco: oww :)
09:31.50annmawatch my blog to know more
09:31.50Tomasuaka: yay
09:31.56annma:) <shameless pub>
09:32.01cucoSho_: open the tab that says "#konversation"
09:32.02TomasuI do if youre on the kdeplanet list.
09:32.14annmaof course i am
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09:32.32chabTomasu: which daemons?
09:32.39cucoSho_: wait, you are using that crappy list on the side? tabs ownz you all, lists sux0rz
09:32.41TomasuIve always wanted to get into kde deving, but I have a list of "pending" projects about a mile long.
09:33.04Tomasuchab, kded's child daeomns like the cookie, ssl, wallet, and other stuff
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09:33.22chabSho_: none of that seems really important ^^ just more "convenient" if it's done automatically.
09:33.31Sho_cuco: That crappy list on the side happens to be quite popular
09:33.44Tomasusom things expect certian daemons to be there...
09:33.45Sho_chab: Many of these are instrumental to the proper functioning of the environment
09:33.46cucoSho_: that does not make it good.
09:33.50Tomasukde becomes less usefull without them
09:33.56Sho_chab: You can pretty much count on things going boom at some point without kded
09:34.01chabTomasu: why would kde die if these daemons don't run anymore?
09:34.05Sho_chab: If you don't want kded, just don't run KDE, which amounts to the same thing ;)
09:34.10Tomasuthey are a core part of kde.
09:34.24Tomasutheres a reason why you cant turn some of them off in the kontrol center.
09:37.06chabSho_: apparently kded also runs on gnome if you use k3b, according to some k3b message posts. either way, I still don't see how cookie, ssl, wallet are needed if you don't use konqueror.
09:37.42Tomasuchab: anything that uses kio ? ;)
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09:38.23benJIman|workyou can turn off individual kded services
09:38.42Tomasuall of them? I thought there was a couple that you couldnt...
09:38.52Sho_chab: Various other apps make HTTP connections what end up using cookies or use SSL certificates
09:39.01Sho_chab: If it were only Konqueror requiring these services, they wouldn't be in kded
09:39.52benJIman|workTomasu: no not all of them
09:40.07Tomasuwell it seems that all of the non load on demand ones have check boxes..
09:40.10Sho_chab: And of course starting k3b in Gnome will start kded ... k3b happens to be a KDE application and as every KDE application may expect to find a proper KDE environment to run in
09:40.12TomasuI dont often look at that dialog.
09:41.06chabSho_: yea, and kded apparently slows down burning speed with some burners..
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09:41.28Renzeis that crack smoke I smell?
09:42.08TomasuI think it is.
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09:42.37Tomasuoh, another weekly planetkde spam :)
09:44.01Sho_chab: Don't see why it would ... k3b burns ever happily here on my LG, anyhow
09:44.44Sho_And btw, running a Gnome app in KDE will probably start gnome-settings-daemon as well these days ;)
09:45.08Sho_Providing services like that to applications is simply a big part of what makes KDE and Gnome desktop environments rather than window managers with a panel app
09:46.54chabSho_: I'll look for the post when I'm back, right now I have to resize /
09:47.37Renzeusers are dumb
09:47.58benJIman|workSho_: and gnome-settings-daemon goes and hijacks the kde screensaver
09:48.00wizard123hi all
09:48.09Sho_benJIman|work: hehe
09:48.20RenzeTomasu: so am I... but I'm talking about the average user
09:48.33Tomasuoh.. good thing Im a below average user then :D
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09:48.40Sho_benJIman|work: On the other hand, the Konversation OSD doesn't work in Gnome because it checks the screensaver state via DCOP ;)
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10:00.08Shirakawasunawhat was the vector program that's soon to be/is ported to Qt?
10:00.16Shirakawasunaa KDE inkscape killer, as it were
10:01.16Renzeyou mean the recently open-sourced one?
10:01.26Renzecan't remember the name
10:01.54qupadasomeone had better remember
10:02.02qupadai like inkscape, but i HATE gtk
10:02.14qupadabeen looking for a replacement
10:02.48Sho_Renze: You mean Xara
10:02.56Sho_Shirakawasuna: You probably mean Karbon14, which is in KOffice
10:03.02RenzeSho_: that's the one
10:03.25Shirakawasunano, not karbon14
10:03.27qupada^ that'll be it then
10:03.35Shirakawasunathanks :)
10:03.42Sho_Xara/Linux is a GTK app, though
10:04.08qupadadamn it
10:04.10ShirakawasunaI could've sworn there was a qt one
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10:04.58Sho_I'm expecting Karbon14 to pick up steam again eventually
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10:05.19Sho_Qt4s vector graphics abilities seriously rock, so coding a vector graphics app with that should be quite pleasurable
10:05.28qupada  << woah
10:05.32Sho_And with the great strides Krita is making, graphics in KOffice is a hot thing
10:06.29*** join/#kde Eitchugo (
10:06.32qupadait looks somewhere inbetween a ra
10:06.34Sho_qupada: Chances are QT 4.2s QGraphicsView can render that just as well :-)
10:06.51qupadaraytracer*, a raster editor and a vector editor
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10:07.26qupadamethinks we have a few things to look forward to in coming times
10:07.53tech9inerrenze qupada or Sho_ .. anyone brilliant on getting me last challenge for seemless file sharing joy tween vmware 5.5's 98se vm hosted on Suse 10.1 / linux perchance?..
10:08.09TomasuIve started thinking that plasma will probably be one big QGV.
10:08.12Renzetech9iner: win... dows?
10:08.16tech9inerseems I am stuck on 98se vm not accepting my seen tux-net workgroup samba bits here
10:08.18Tomasutwould make the most sense to me.
10:08.37qupadatech9iner: i haven't used vmware in nearly a year, dunno if i can help you sorry
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10:09.00Sho_tech9iner: No experience with it either, sorry
10:09.04*** join/#kde gemidjy (n=gemidjy@unaffiliated/gemidjy)
10:09.15Renzenever used vmware
10:09.19tech9inersadly yes Renze hehe.  I have to point in ebay store operation here where i ad to byte the bullet and load up my only legal windB L O W z license for ebay's damned windB L O W z only turbolister.  no way round it..
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10:09.34[-red-]ive used vmware, whats the problem?
10:09.45qupadatech9iner: not happy in WINE?
10:09.50tech9inerthanks mates.  you all rule and thanks.  just taking your typical handup brilliance to your credits bit for granted hehe
10:10.22tech9inersadly no qupada .. turbo lister is like 20 megs isnstalls and has to play handily with ebay's ever changing api bits..
10:10.33tech9inerits well established for years that wine cant handle it
10:10.45tech9inerthanks for checking of course heeh
10:11.03qupadaanything's possible... i made a video encoder run in wine just to prove to someone that it could be done
10:11.06tech9inerbe like me to not consider the obvious.  knat like attn span an all hehe
10:11.26tech9inerthats your day to me video brains nite your familiar with qupada Wink;Wink ;]
10:11.32Renzetech9iner: what are you tal... oooo, potato chips
10:11.35qupadaactually produced a reasonable result too, was just as slow as shite
10:12.04tech9inerRenze  hehe..
10:12.08Tomasudid I miss Qt4.2's final release?
10:12.55Sho_Tomasu: rc1 atm
10:13.12Tomasupost in qtpreview made me think it was ...
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10:16.44Shirakawasunawoo, checking out music making software :)
10:16.47Shirakawasunarosegarden looks nifty
10:16.58Shirakawasunaand qt!
10:17.07qupadait is, if your sound card feels like playing the game
10:17.11Tomasuhasnt that been stagnant for a while? (last I looked it was)
10:17.30Sho_Shirakawasuna: Hydrogen is nice too
10:17.32qupadai can't get my midi synth to do more than 5/8 of sweet fuck all, so rosegarden is pretty much incapable of doing anything at all
10:18.13ShirakawasunaSho_: cool
10:18.22Sho_Tomasu: Last release July '06
10:18.30Tomasuah. nice.
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10:21.21Tomasubut the r300 drivers were "interesting"
10:21.40Tomasuand the latest fglrx drivers are broken for what I use them for.
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10:22.25Tomasuuse something that uses sockets to network sound? ;)
10:22.39Ash-FoxI was thinking arts, but it's so horrible...
10:22.47Renzeyell really loudly down a cat5 cable
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10:23.10Ash-FoxAnd I don't see aything in the ALSA documentation that signifies network socket support.
10:23.32Tomasuit doesnt.
10:23.48Tomasuand if it may have, you couldnt find it in the docs.
10:23.49pnemeci need to find if KDE is running in script. it is use $KDE_FULL_SESSION variable sufficient?
10:24.01Tomasualsa's docs are near non existent.
10:24.02DexterFi was just told konq can suggest search words while typing in the google search bar - do I have to enable that deature, or is it a patch..?
10:24.08Ash-FoxTomasu, I noticed :/
10:24.26qupadais back up yet?
10:24.28ShirakawasunaI've heard that alsa documentation is an oxymoron
10:24.35DexterFit is
10:24.38Ash-FoxI love the setup guide for alsa, 'apt-get install alsa', I mean.. that's just hilarious :P
10:24.51Tomasuand at the time I was writing alsa code, various drivers would behave differently given the same api input/settings.
10:25.34pnemecDexterF: thanks
10:25.54DexterFpnemec: ?
10:26.09pnemecDexterF: sorry i thougth you speak to me
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10:32.32ShirakawasunaAsh-Fox: this is hilarious's so easy?
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10:33.10TomasuShirakawasuna: no, becuase everyone uses debian and already knows to use apt-get.
10:33.39Shirakawasunaexactly.  easy/obvious, not needing a guide
10:34.32ShirakawasunaTomasu: (offtopic): as someone who has switched from debian to gentoo, what say you about them?  I'm thinking of trying debian on my desktop for easier maintenance
10:35.02Tomasudebian was pissign me off with the 1+ year wait on gettinf kde into UNSTABLE
10:35.08TomasuI hear its gotten better.
10:35.33Tomasubut debian was a pretty nice system.
10:35.36Shirakawasunaalthough I can't tell what version of kde is in testing from their site
10:35.43Shirakawasunathe versioning seems different...or something
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10:36.38Tomasugentoo is great for its customizability.. something no other distro has.
10:36.50*** join/#kde ma3x (
10:36.53Tomasuand debian has its stability.
10:37.09ma3xhow do I start kdm?
10:37.09Tomasuif you never want to worry about something breaking, use debian stable, or maybe testing.
10:37.26annmawhat do you customize in Gentoo?
10:37.48Tomasuannma: build time stuff, like support for various libs, hardware, etc.
10:37.59Tomasulike I do  -gnome  on everything. ;)
10:38.02ma3xhow can I start kdm with current user and then login?
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10:38.12qupadama3x: distro?
10:38.16ma3xqupada, deiban
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10:38.31Tomasuma3x: if youre allready logged in, just run startkde
10:38.42ma3xTomasu, thanks
10:38.47qupadama3x: '/etc/init.d/kdm start' should work, i'm not sure of debian's way of handling auto-starting at boot though
10:38.55ma3xthank you
10:39.37Tomasuannma: on my firewall that has no audio of any kind, but I still like to NX into, -arts
10:39.55Tomasuoh and -ipv6
10:39.58qupadai like to put it this way... you don't have to have the 'pizza with everything'
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10:40.48Ash-FoxShirakawasuna, it's hilarious because usually these documentations talk about how to compile things, what compile options are best etc.
10:40.53TomasuI have 190 lines in my package.use file :o
10:41.31ShirakawasunaI have 6 :)
10:41.33qupadai *only* have 72
10:41.46TomasuI have to say, mine needs cleaned up a little.
10:41.53Shirakawasunayou people are silly
10:42.00qupadamy package.keywords needs a major cleanup
10:42.13Tomasuhah, mine has 272
10:42.17qupadato remove all the things that are now unnecessary due to my whole system being ~amd64
10:42.19ShirakawasunaI don't see why you'd ever have that many
10:42.22Tomasuthough that includes some comments and blanks
10:42.38TomasuShirakawasuna: um, lazyness?
10:42.42qupadaTomasu: i think i win... 591 lines
10:42.46Shirakawasunayou'd think you'd use the make.conf USE variable and then add -uses to it
10:43.03qupadaat least half of that is entirely unnecessary now though
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10:43.16TomasuShirakawasuna: no, I dont always want to globalize a use option.
10:43.31Tomasumost of my keywords file is X and kde :)
10:43.31Shirakawasunaso you add 12 package.use entries ;)
10:43.46Shirakawasunaah, it's package.keywords now
10:43.53Shirakawasunathat makes more sense :)
10:43.54qupadausing grep to remove lines with ~amd64 on them from package.keywords, it shortens to 72 lines
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10:44.38Tomasumy packages.use:
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10:46.23ma3xI couldn't start kdm via /etc/init.d/kdm start
10:46.26ma3xany other ideas?
10:46.31Tomasuas a user you cant...
10:46.33ma3xit says only root wants to run kdm
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10:46.40ma3xand if I run it as root, it's already running
10:46.40Tomasukdm must be run as root
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10:46.55ma3xyes, but if it's already running, how can I get the login screen show up on my screen
10:47.07Tomasukde has a nice "new session" option
10:47.09Shirakawasunama3x: /etc/init.d/kdm restart
10:47.11Tomasustarts a new X and kdm
10:47.19Shirakawasunama3x: or alt+f7 if it's already started
10:48.13ma3xokay thanks
10:48.14ma3xlet me try
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10:49.58ma3xokay that worked!
10:50.00ma3xthanks (the restart I mean)
10:50.09ma3xand how do I erase the text from the console
10:50.17ma3xlet's say I login type type something and then I logout
10:50.27qupada'reset' works nicely
10:50.33ma3xand then if you do alt+page up, page down you can see everything
10:50.43ma3xwhat's reset?
10:50.46ma3xcomputer reset?
10:50.52qupadajust type it at a console
10:51.16qupadadepending on the type of terminal, it will clear some or all of the history
10:51.28qupadaand for the record, to restart the pc, the command is 'reboot'
10:51.47ma3xbut type shift + page up and you see everything
10:52.12ma3xlol, I know, I just thought if you were saying to reset the pc
10:52.18qupada:\ on my system you don't
10:52.37ma3xokay, I mean you login, you type for eg. ps aux
10:52.39Tomasubeen doing the linux thing for 6 years, and this is the first time Ive heard about SHIFT+PGUP ? :o
10:53.00ma3xthen you type, reset, then you logout, and then you press shift+ pageup
10:53.04ma3xand you see the result from ps aux
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10:53.18ma3xTomasu, shift+page^
10:53.22ma3xdoesn't work on your system?
10:53.26Tomasutry clear then?
10:53.34Tomasuno, it works. I've just not known about that.
10:53.42TomasuI didnt think it was possible actually.
10:53.52ma3xheh noob :p
10:54.19Renzeach, mein cranium
10:54.54qupadaRenze: suffering a case of rectal cranial inversion>
10:55.09Renzequpada: not quite... I'm not wearing a suit
10:55.21Renzejust php overload
10:55.52TomasuI got you one better, I have a perl+php+sql+twiki overload.
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11:02.21mattepiuanyone knows nothing about kaffeine not getting localized?
11:02.52annmayou mean you set kde in a language and kaffeine stays in english?
11:03.05mattepiuyep.... all the rest is in italian, actually
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11:05.50Ash-FoxSo.. It's my understanding, for networked sound, I need to enable 'networked sound' in kcontrol. copy the the .mcoprc file to the client computer. Then I run:
11:06.02Ash-Foxartsd -n -F 5 -S 8192
11:06.16Ash-Foxssh -Y startkde
11:06.22Ash-Foxand in theory I should have sound?
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11:11.26mattepiufound the issue! kaffeine puts .mo localization files as , but then it checks for just (without version!)
11:16.39annmathat's a distro bug
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11:21.12der_oschnihello all. how can i print multiple files to a pdf, like the gwenview plugin "printer assistent"?
11:21.13annmamattepiu: you might want to report it to your distro
11:21.19annmathat would be nice
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11:22.10mattepiuI'm actually working for my distro, I was beliving it was a common issue but somewhat only in gentoo it seems we get instead of
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11:25.45annmamattepiu: yes, mattepiu KDE itself does not add version numbers to .mo
11:26.00annmathat's why i said it's a distro bug
11:26.14tech9inerlo annma ......
11:26.19annmahi tech9iner :)
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11:59.59bruniolidoes anyone know how kate's indentation works? i have an xml file opened in kate and it is not indented and i'd like to see it indented.
12:00.40annmalook in setting
12:01.08brunioliannma: yup, and then what?
12:01.56brunioliand then what?
12:02.03Sho_brunioli: Kate does not auto-indent XML files to my knowledge
12:02.03bruniolii have it in xml mode
12:02.08annmawhat is set here?
12:02.24bruniolixml style
12:02.35brunioliuse spaces instead ...
12:02.42bruniolikeep indent profile
12:02.49bruniolitab key indents
12:02.56annmaSho_: it does from clipboard though
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12:03.18Sho_annma: sure that's not pre-indented?
12:03.18annmabrunioli: try Ctrl+A in your page
12:03.26annmaSho_: not sure
12:03.31annmaSho_: it annoyes me
12:03.36brunioliannma: ctrl a selects all
12:03.43annmabrunioli: in Indentation page checks
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12:04.00annmaAdjust indentation ....
12:04.19annmathen in your doc ctrl+A and paste in a new page
12:04.25annmawhat doe sit do?
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12:04.47brunioliannma: nothing
12:05.06annmabecause mine indented stuff i did not want indented
12:05.16brunioliso there is no way of saying to kate that "indent this file"
12:05.18annmacan you post the xml file somewhere so i can get it?
12:05.26Sho_brunioli: No
12:06.00annmais the filetype set to xml as well?
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12:06.42annmaSho_: when i edit for example koffice website, i copy an xml para and paste it and it gets indented
12:06.52annmaalthough it is not indented at first
12:06.56brunioliannma: yes filetype is xml
12:07.32Sho_annma: I just get an error on, so ...
12:07.45annmaSho_: when i edit in Kate
12:07.52annmai use svn, i am webmaster
12:08.12annmayes i just did it again
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12:08.33Sho_annma: Hm, you're right ... just tried the same with news.rdf from www-extreagear and it auto-indented on paste
12:08.46annmabrunioli: what kate version?
12:08.49Sho_As long as file type is set to XML
12:09.13brunioliannma: 2.5.2
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12:09.38annmamine is 2.5.4 but it should work on 2.5.2
12:11.19Sho_brunioli: If I have an XML file open, Indentation mode is XML, File type is XML, and Select All and then use Tools->Align, it reindents
12:12.08brunioliSho_: ok that worked! thanks
12:12.35annmai was fiddling about a kdevelop bug at the same time
12:13.12Sho_wonder if that worls with C++ code, too
12:13.41bruniolithanks folks!
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12:14.44Sho_apparently not
12:14.46Sho_too bad :)
12:14.46annmaSho_: me too
12:14.47cucoannma: did you mseg me? or i clicked you nick by mistake...?
12:14.57annmacuco: hi! no msg from me
12:15.07annmayou must have picked me by mistake
12:15.17annmait's because i shine over the channel
12:15.18cucohi annma (sorry, me drunk)
12:15.33annma(not flaterring that you picked me then)
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12:22.46wizard123hi! does konq preserve file permissions while copying?
12:23.21Dasnipa][why wouldnt it
12:23.38Dasnipa][that would just be odd
12:23.40benJIman|workit does
12:23.53wizard123i need to move my os to another label :)
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12:25.17annmaSho_: kate from kde4 saves my files as Big which is chinese encoding!
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12:37.55Sho_annma: o.O
12:38.06Sho_annma: Velly weild
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12:57.34tobihello, i am looking for some support with czech language and kde/kdm
13:00.04annmatobi: what kind of support?
13:01.06tobiwell, i have a understanding problem i think, with utf-8 or whatever codepage applies in cz, and kdm or kde in general
13:01.35tobimany characters are crippled to boxes at the moment, while others like the a with the dash over it is ok
13:02.31tobiand as i am german, its pretty hard to even find out what this characters should be, as i can't speak or read the language
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13:03.27tobii use cs_CZ.UTF-8 as my standard locale on debian
13:03.52tobiso i think utf8 should do the jib
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13:05.28annmatobi: maybe your font does not support cs
13:05.56tobiso changing the font of kdm would be an option?
13:05.59annmaare the missing chars only special chars?
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13:06.12annmatobi: maybe
13:06.16tobii think, as i don't know what they should normally be
13:06.20tobiok, i will try that
13:06.29annmahelvetica for example is bad
13:06.30*** join/#kde valderman (
13:06.33annmaarial is good
13:06.59jtatedejavu is supposed to have more glyphs than bitstream if you're using those.
13:07.39annmatobi: go there
13:07.52annmado you see all the chars in konqueror?
13:08.09annmaor here
13:08.10asranielhi, where can i report usability stuff? should i post a bug on a wishlist item? its a small thing. in konqueror as a filebrowser, when you right click, the create a new folder icon is at the top of the menu. if you want to save a item when downloading, and you right click, the create a new folder icon, is somewhere in the middle.. confuses people (like me ;-) )
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13:08.45valdermanMy Swedish keyboard layout refuses to work with KDE. If I delete .kde and login again, redoing all the settings, the layout works until I logout again
13:09.04valdermanI'm using Debian testing on AMD64 and the KDE packages from unstable, which should be 3.5.4
13:09.14annmavalderman: weird
13:09.22thiagoare you using kxkb?
13:09.25annmawhat does not work exactly?
13:09.47annmais it a kxkb setting through kcontrol?
13:09.57valdermanI'm not using kxkb; KDE should accept the settings in xorg.conf unless I'm mistaken
13:10.03thiagoyes, it should
13:10.04valdermanand it does on first login, but not after that
13:10.05thiagoare they correct?
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13:10.11annmavalderman: is swedish yur language then?
13:10.28thiagovalderman: what happens if you setxkbmap the correct mapping after logging back in?
13:11.02valdermanannma: No, I use US English to avoid horrible translations, but the keyboard always just works after first login
13:11.16valdermanthiago: If I use kxkb, nothing
13:11.24valdermanIf i use setxkbmap, it tells me that something went wrong
13:11.31thiagovalderman: which would be what exactly?
13:11.31valdermanEven with --verbose it doesn't tell me what though
13:11.37tobiannma: i can see all characters, except this: ř
13:11.42tobiif you can read it ;-)
13:11.47annmatobi: yes i can
13:11.52thiagotobi: that's an r with a caron
13:11.52annmaa r with a caret
13:11.57Ash-FoxRight... After careful examination of ARTs documentation.. ARTs doesn't exactly stream sound across the network if I want to... Instead it just passes play commands and stuff to the client computer.. Okay, so back to square one... finding something that can play sound over the network...
13:12.04tobii am changing the fonts right know
13:12.09tobiback in a minute
13:12.10annmatobi: ok
13:12.18thiagovalderman: make sure that kxkb isn't running, because it's the only thing in KDE that could change the keyboard layout
13:12.46thiagovalderman: make sure as well that the keyboard layout from X is holding firm if you start a failsafe (just xterm) session.
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13:13.04thiagoAsh-Fox: ffmpeg or icecast
13:13.08valdermanthiago: i haven't tried a failsafe session, but it works with GNOME
13:13.10thiagoAsh-Fox: or shoutcast
13:13.35thiagovalderman: with failsafe, you know that it's X's setting, not something the desktop did.
13:13.39Ash-Foxthiago, that's not really useful, since I want to just relay sounds from software to another computer.
13:13.56valdermanthiago: alright, I'll try failsafe then
13:13.57thiagoAsh-Fox: and ffmpeg allows you to stream anything over network.
13:14.20thiagoAsh-Fox: streaming raw PCM consumes too much bandwidth
13:14.44Ash-Foxthiago, I'm aware of that, but how the heck do you pipe things that use say arts to ffmpeg or such. There isn't really any documentation I've found.
13:15.07thiagoAsh-Fox: no, there isn't. It sends to the sound device.
13:15.07tobiannma: you made my day ;-)
13:15.15tobieverything works
13:15.17tobiwith dejavu
13:15.18annma:) my pleasure
13:15.23tobithx a lot
13:15.26thiagoAsh-Fox: you'd have to write an aRts output plugin.
13:15.30Ash-Foxthiago, well, that's not very useful since I'm making x11 thin clients
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13:15.49Ash-FoxI would network audio system would be more suited for this
13:15.54Ash-Fox*would think
13:16.05Ash-FoxIf I could actually find some stupid documentation on my system on it, I could get started
13:16.17thiagoAsh-Fox: aRts was planned to have network transparency, but it never happened.
13:16.32thiagoAsh-Fox: after 6 years, it's still an unsolved problem.
13:17.00Ash-FoxActually, aRts sort of does have ntwork transparency
13:17.37thiagolike you said: it just issues the commands
13:17.47Ash-Foxif you mount say your home directory (or whatever paths being used for sound files) via nfs, and run the arts server locally, piping the arts connections back
13:17.48thiagowhich is how aRts works anyways: the files are played by the server to avoid unnecessary bandwidth
13:17.58thiagosome applications actually send a PCM stream for aRts to play.
13:18.13thiagoso, the solution is to put all KDE sound files in the client machines (even if NFS-mounted)
13:18.36Ash-FoxaRts has NAS anyway.
13:18.44thiagoNAS is something else
13:18.45Ash-FoxWhich I need to figure out now.
13:19.00Ash-FoxI know it's something else, but I need to figure it out anyway.
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13:20.02valdermanIt seems that the keyboard issue still persists in failsafe X
13:20.15thiagovalderman: then my guess is X didn't actually set it.
13:20.20thiagovalderman: have you tried using kxkb?
13:21.08Ash-FoxWhy the hell is it so hard to find documentation
13:21.13valdermanthiago: Yes, it gives me an "err"-icon, most likely indicating an error
13:21.17der_oschniis it possible to print some selected imagefiles into one pdf?
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13:39.38chrisbenhowdy everyone, I'm looking to replace the Konq Icon With Firefox in the kicker for all my users. I've edited /usr/share/apps/kicker/default-apps and now any new users get the correct setting, but not users that have already had thir .kde directories created any idea how to force it?
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13:41.00GoogieI've got problem with sharing directories/files directly from "Directory Properties" dialog
13:41.14GoogieI mean not the "kpf" public http server, but samba sharing
13:42.21GoogieI've enabled sharing all directories for all users and I still see "configure sharing" (or sth like that) button on "share tab" in "properties" dialog, instead of radioboxes and checkboxes for sharing directory
13:42.27Googiewhat could be the reason?
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13:43.02GoogieI got KDE 3.5.4
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13:48.30gribouilledoes anyone know when KDE 4.0 final will be out ?
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13:49.38benJIman|workgribouille: there is no schedule yet
13:49.53*** join/#kde zhw (
13:51.41gribouillebenJIman|work, will it bge this year or next year ?
13:52.12emssKDE 4 will be the Windows killer
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13:55.07Sho_Really? Going by the last few years somehow I expect Microsoft to be the Windows killer :)
13:56.12gribouilleis it possible to access a specific part in kcotrol directly ?
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13:57.38Sho_gribouille: kcmshell --list / kcmshell <module>
13:58.11gribouilleSho_, ok, thanks
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13:58.48Sho_gribouille: Or you could add the respective submenu to your KMenu via the prefs
13:59.07gribouilleSho_, with kmenuedit ?
13:59.35Sho_gribouille: KControl -> Desktop -> Panels -> Menus
13:59.54Sho_Or Right-click panel -> Configure Panel -> Menus
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14:04.37gribouilleSho_, ok, thanks
14:08.08gribouilleSho_, is it possible to access all the entries in kcontrol with kcmshell ?
14:08.22Sho_gribouille: Yes, and also from the "Settings" submenu in KMenu
14:08.57gribouilleSho_, I don't have this submenu
14:09.24Sho_gribouille: Then add it
14:09.32gribouillehow ?
14:09.49Sho_[15:59] <Sho_> gribouille: KControl -> Desktop -> Panels -> Menus
14:09.50Sho_[16:00] <Sho_> Or Right-click panel -> Configure Panel -> Menus
14:09.59Sho_Check the "Settings" item in that list and click "OK"
14:11.04gribouilleSho_, I didn't know it was just not enabled
14:11.44Sho_gribouille: Well that's why I told you repeatedly to add it ;)
14:12.44gribouilleSho_, it would be great if it were possible to add only the most used entries
14:13.17*** join/#kde kucrut (n=yoruichi@
14:13.55Sho_gribouille: Then use KMenuEdit to manually add entries that run "kcmshell <module>"
14:15.53*** join/#kde Vegeta^ (n=ahm0x539@
14:16.01Vegeta^Where/how do I change the action of the power button in kde?
14:16.12thiagothe logout button?
14:17.13Vegeta^I'm talking about the physical button that you can click on, and you c an choose, wether that would ask you for shoot down, or automatically shutdown and ect.
14:17.30thiagoyou don't configure that in KDE
14:17.34thiagoit's not a KDE setting.
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14:30.02StereoSkitdudes, im using k3b from fluxbox to burn a dvd iso image but i have the message that i need to install growisofs (dvd+rw-tools) in order to do this, i have the package installed, so i dont know what could i do in order no to burn and f*ck up any dvd, any  ideas?
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14:33.00gribouillein kmenuedit, is it possible to disable an entry ?
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14:41.57thiagogribouille: disable or remove?
14:42.08thiagoStereoSkit: is growisofs found in your PATH?
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14:43.29octanhowdy all
14:43.36octani have a issue with kde..
14:43.53octaneverytime i starup kde this damn wizars starts up too
14:44.01octanit dosent help to comleate ir
14:44.13octanit still starts up next time i startup kde
14:44.32octanthats the one
14:44.53pinotreeoctan: hold on
14:45.15pinotreein your ~/.kde/share/config/kpersonalizerrc
14:46.00gribouillethiago, disable
14:46.23StereoSkitthiago: let's see
14:46.39octanpinotree, do i put that at the bottom?
14:47.00octanok.. thank you
14:47.12pinotreeoctan: replace the old lines, whether present
14:47.15StereoSkitit is actually: /usr/bin/growisofs
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14:47.39octanpresent ?
14:47.45thiagogribouille: no
14:48.02thiagoStereoSkit: can your user run it?
14:48.12octanpinotree, it looks like this now
14:48.25StereoSkiti do `sudo k3b`
14:48.30octanis that ok?
14:48.50pinotreeoctan: ps: next time, please use a pastebin...
14:48.56aptit has been said that pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or, or, or for #oe use, or, or for the lisp/scheme nuts, or
14:49.01octani'll do that
14:49.10octanbut it was only a few lines
14:49.26StereoSkitthis is weird
14:49.44octantime to test it
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14:50.21thiagoStereoSkit: what is?
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14:52.34gribouilledoes anyone use klik  ?
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14:56.31shastryisn't klik only for a few distros ?
14:56.53thiagofor all
14:57.15shastryso.. i can install it on even non-rpm, non-deb distros ?
14:57.38gribouillei've mistakenly installed it ass root. does anyone know how to remove it ?
14:57.53thiagoerase the file
14:58.12gribouillethiago, what file ?
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14:58.38thiagothe .klik file
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15:09.28shastryhow do i close the opened klik app ?
15:09.35shastrythe cramfs mounted thingy doesn't go off
15:10.26shastryit automatically unmounts
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15:24.37MetaMorfoziSbye all
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15:27.12ma3xwhy do I see blue lines bellow and under my text in the konsole?
15:28.18PSIplusin KDE 3.5.4 (Kubuntu dapper), there is a tab with mount options for devices (right klick on an usb-storage-device-icon -> Settings, there) ... But I can't set a thing there...
15:28.37PSIplusIs there anything wrong about my permissions, what do I need to do to be able to use this?
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15:29.29StereoSkitthiago: i had to log in as root for burning dvd's, that's weird~
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15:32.39Ace2007Hi all :)
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15:40.51hrw|worksomeone know when konqueror will get stable and will get session-save-on-crash?
15:42.47Ace2007konqueror is stable
15:43.20hrw|workI have <form> with <input type='file'>. then I upload file from net (http:// style url inserted into file input). After submit press I got requester 'are you sure you want to upload file?' - after confirm I often get this req again and then konq crash
15:43.30hrw|workgot it ~10 times in last 20 minutes
15:43.44benJIman|workhrw|work: test case -> bug report
15:44.27hrw|workand lack of any session saver makes this hard
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15:45.17LinuxCartI'm trying to use a headset connected to my computer(which also has a bluetooth dongle) as a handsfree
15:45.58LinuxCartso I could use speak through my mobile phone from my computer
15:46.07LinuxCartany experience with this¿?
15:46.21alsurenhrw|work: there is a "save on crash" but it only saves URLs, and it doesn't work if /tmp gets wiped
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15:46.46hrw|workalsuren: where to enable atleast this?
15:47.02alsurensettings, configure extensions
15:47.16alsurencrash handler or something, it's called
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15:47.30alsurenand that puts a menu entry in tools, if I remember right
15:48.58alsurenalso, if you can get a consistant crash on a page, it would be useful to submit a bug report, as a "test case" with the URL and instructions to get the crash
15:49.07alsuren(which version are you using?)
15:49.12hrw|workURL is in cms which I cannot share
15:49.12gribouilleare 2321.512 FPS normal for a radeon ?
15:49.40hrw|workalsuren: 3.5.4 from debian 'sid'
15:50.04alsurenokay, then a bug report will probably be very useful
15:50.08hrw|workalsuren: now I have to wait until konq will unfreeze.. it did that too often
15:50.22alsurenooooh! you get just freezing?
15:50.36hrw|workalsuren: just?
15:50.51hrw|workalsuren: freezing is another thing which annoy^Wmakes me mad
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15:51.40hrw|workI cannot even enter bugzilla pass because it freeze after first letter, then wait for something, then unfreeze and insert all chars which I pressed and freeze again
15:52.32hrw|worknad free report that I have 70-100M free ram so it should not be swapping
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15:53.25alsurenhrw|work: so you're just getting freezes?
15:53.57alsurenwhat does your ksysguard CPU graph look like?
15:54.16alsurenalso, do you have nspluginviewer or anything like that running?
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15:54.42hrw|work1. crashes happens
15:54.48hrw|work2. freezes also happens
15:55.09hrw|work3. nspluginviewer enabled but no page with plugins loaded
15:55.27alsurenI found on gentoo that nspluginviewer (working with flash) kept freezing, but no crashes, and became unfrozen as soon as I did killall nspluginviewer
15:55.50alsurenjust an idea
15:55.52Ace2007Is there a way to send a program to the system tray? to send firefox to the tray or oowriter?
15:56.08hrw|workalsuren: no nspluginview running
15:56.43alsuren*shrugs* just an idea. didn't think there was much chance of it being useful
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15:57.24Ace2007I found alltray
15:57.49Ace2007but can alltray be set to bring an app thats in the tray back to the desktop?
15:57.53pinotreeAce2007: ksystemtray <cmd>
15:58.05alsurenif it's freezing and crashing just randomly, bug report probably won't be too helpful, because you probably have a borked install. try downgrading ot something
15:58.11HomerKDE 4 is out!
15:58.19pinotreeHomer: ?!
15:58.21Homerj/k :P
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15:58.58Homersorry had to
15:59.15Homeryou know, to wake everyone up
15:59.40alsurenAce2007: I normally just put things onto another desktop if they're getting in the way
16:00.02Ace2007alsuren: i just want to leave apps running and i tend to use all of my desktops
16:00.36alsurenmaybe you need more desktops ;)
16:00.47Ace2007which package is ksystemtray found in (gentoo)
16:01.10hrw|workalsuren: 'borked install' is very often excuse in bugtracker comments..
16:01.26Ace2007never mind its ksystraycmd
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16:02.40alsurenAce2007: as in kdebase rather than kdebase-meta
16:02.50Ace2007oh, why?
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16:04.15alsurenAce2007: just because when I installed my gentoo on my box, split ebuilds didn't exist
16:04.28Ace2007so why didn't you upgrade?
16:04.41Ace2007to ~x86
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16:05.35alsurenhrw|work: when you submit bug reports like that, you should really try to find a case which will regularly cause a crash, because otherwise, it's hard for the maintainers to track down the bug
16:06.03hrw|workalsuren: will do but first wanted to test does konq will ever work
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16:07.06alsurenAce2007: I can't be arsed with the broken packages in ~x86. I just have ~ entries in keywords whenever there's a new major-ish release of kde or something
16:07.18*** join/#kde rabauke (n=rabauke@u-7-200.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE)
16:07.30rabaukeHello! Can anyone recommend an easy to use tool to keep two folders on a computer in sync?
16:07.32alsurenand ~ keyworking all the KDE meta-packages is more trouble than it's worth
16:07.33Ace2007oh ok, but i've never found a broken package
16:08.20alsurenrabauke: rsync is good for syncing changes, but only really reliable if you have a master folder and a slave folder
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16:09.27rabaukealsuren: I would have changes in both folders that have to be copied from one to the other. both ways
16:09.37alsurenhrw|work: didn't quite understand that last comment. can you say again more clearly?
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16:10.32alsurenrabauke: well you could always symlink, if they're both on the same computer
16:10.33hrw|workalsuren: now I wrote small test form to do testing
16:11.12Ace2007Are you usng a portable device thats mounted at a certain folder and a folder in your home dir to act as a backup?
16:11.13rabaukebut symlink does not mean that there is a copy of a file in both, does it?
16:11.18alsurenhrw|work: cool! If you can get it to fail every time, that will be *very* useful to the maintainers :D
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16:12.23hrw|workalsuren: I know
16:12.29alsurenrabauke: no, but if your changes are immediately synced in both places, it doesn't matter ;)
16:12.36rabaukeI try to have a folder in FAT32 that mirrors a reiserFS folder in order to use documents on windows but at the same time transfer changes back to the reiserFS folder
16:13.12rabaukeor is it safe to use the Windows ReiserFS drivers?
16:13.39alsurenwell you can put an rsync job going one way at startup, and then rsync the other way at shutdown, if you wish
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16:15.00alsurenor simply use the fat32 partition at all times, which *is* safe
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16:16.02rabaukealsuren: Thanks, I'll try what works best.
16:16.42icwienerCan somebody confirm this? Rightclick on trash -> Settings. There are 4 tabs (3 visible). Click on right arrow until the end. Then it is not possible for me to go back to the first tab (which is not visible at that moment).
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16:18.32Ace2007I don't have a    right click trash -> Settings
16:18.54*** part/#kde rabauke (n=rabauke@u-7-200.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE)
16:18.56icwienerThen Itranslated it wrong. ;)
16:19.25icwienerRightclick on the trash icon, there must be some kind of Settings, Configurte or similar.
16:19.38Ace2007Yea Properties
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16:19.48icwienerSounds good. :d
16:20.14Ace2007it says general, permissions, URL and Preview at the top
16:20.36icwienerAre all 4 tabs vilible without arrows on tab bar?
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16:21.20Ace2007maybe its specific to your local?
16:21.24*** join/#kde _xm (n=xm@
16:21.27icwienerOk, then the german translation is too long.
16:21.45icwienerBut it should be possible to switch right and left anyway.
16:22.07icwienerAnd here it only goes to the right, not to the left.
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16:27.32LinuxCartif I run kate with an already opened instance, shouldn't it open the file on the same instance instread of opening a new one¿?
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16:27.40PhilRoduse kate -i
16:27.42PhilRodkate -u
16:27.58LinuxCartis it mandatory for the describe behaviour ¿?
16:28.08LinuxCartI have chack the right option (I thnk)
16:28.17PhilRodyes, in the latest version, I think
16:28.18pinotreePhilRod: kate -abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvywx :P
16:28.53LinuxCart-i or -u¿?
16:29.21pinotreekate --help could help you too
16:29.29LinuxCartthank you
16:29.48LinuxCartworked ... ;) great!
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16:35.20gemidjyanyone remind me how was the command to rebuild KMenu ?
16:35.33gemidjykbuildsyscoca ...then
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16:42.27xmDO youspeak chinese?
16:45.03rorkxm: probably someone does but it might be more helpfull/polite to talk english if possible
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16:52.24pinotreetry, we wil do our best to understand you :)
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16:54.13xmHow can I improve my spoken English
16:54.30icwienerTravel to London. :D
16:54.34*** join/#kde beu (i=beu@freenode/developer/gentoo.developer.beu)
16:55.43icwienerActually, I improved my spoken english by watching englisch TV. But many say, that one have to travel to an english-speaking country to really learn the language.
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17:03.07icwienerSeven or eight years in school. Three or four years ago I started watching english TV irregularily.
17:03.21*** join/#kde letalis (n=letalis@
17:03.53icwienerI consider the years in school as not that successful. ;)
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17:06.15fiberchunkshowdy, is there a stock ticker applet or some sort of way to do stock ticker functionality in KDE 3.5.1 level 'a' ?
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17:06.48PhilRodin kdenetwork I think
17:07.11pinotreeyep, network
17:08.05fiberchunksah cool a newsticker -- any idea how to make it do stocks? :)
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17:09.30*** join/#kde Ze_M (n=Ze_M@unaffiliated/zem/x-000001)
17:10.15Ze_Mhow can i start a kde app in english instead my default language?
17:10.27PhilRodKDE_LANG=C kapp
17:10.31pinotreeKDE_LANG=en_US kapp
17:11.01pinotreePhilRod: the 'C' locale won't work
17:11.07PhilRodoh, ok
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17:11.23Ze_Mwhy LC_LANG=C doesnt work for kde apps?
17:11.45*** join/#kde hydrogen_ (n=hydrogen@amarok/rokymotion/Hydrogen)
17:11.48pinotreebecause kde stores its language in your kdeglobals
17:12.14pinotreeand is not influenced by the LC_* env vars
17:12.21pinotreekde3, i mean
17:12.22Ze_Mso what? it shoud work with LC_LANG like works with KDE_LANG
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17:12.34pinotreein kde3 WON'T work
17:12.36Ze_MPierreTramo: ho
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17:12.47pinotreein kde4 that will change
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19:02.57MetaMorfoziSwhere in .kde stored the color schemes?
19:03.04MetaMorfoziSthe own schemes, that modified by own
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19:22.53mariuxanyone tried creative vision:m with amarok?
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19:27.10klerfaythow to restart kde screensaver stuff?
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19:34.13fumasterdkK3b fails on burn of dvd .... growisofs .... :-( unable to anonymously mmap 33554432: Res
19:35.56fumasterdkANy ideas??
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19:37.25annmafumasterdk: maybe ask in yur distro channel
19:39.57KyralAnyone know if there is a way with KMail to "whitelist" some addresses for HTML Mail?
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19:41.39fumasterdkannma: They sent me here
19:41.52annmawhat distro is it?
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19:42.19annmadid you look at their bug database?
19:42.22Ace2007hi all
19:42.27Ace2007anyone here run suse?
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19:42.45fumasterdkSOmething about a ulimit but didnt give an answer
19:42.56annmafumasterdk: when you run it from konsole
19:43.10annmadoesn't it say anything specific?
19:43.20fumasterdk2 sek ill try that
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19:44.23Supaplexwhat libraries/plugins enable konqueror to show man pages in it?
19:45.04fumasterdkannma: in dmesg ---- cdrom: This disc doesn't have any tracks I recognize!
19:45.09annmaSupaplex: should work out of the box I think
19:45.13fumasterdkOn a blank disc
19:45.25annmafumasterdk: so it's a system problem
19:45.39annmait bugs before opening k3b
19:45.51annmai bet any other burner will also fail
19:46.03fumasterdkYeah I agree with ya
19:46.11fumasterdkIt is latest kde from portage
19:46.15SupaplexI'm trying to find something simlar in mozilla. plugin/addon etc.
19:46.31fumasterdkbut ... must be like a quick fix :-)
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19:47.33fumasterdkmaybe I should step down a notch from bleefing edge
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19:59.05Renzefumasterdk: that message is normal, and should not prevent k3b from functioning... it doesn't here.
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20:08.59junkY_Sanhy, i want to take a screenshot by pressing the Print-Key. where can i set this correctly?
20:09.36pinotreekcontrol -> regional & accessibility -> keyboard shortcuts
20:10.06Theoryby default under kde it should bring up ksnapshot anyway
20:11.06junkY_Sanit doesnt
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20:11.15junkY_Sanwhich daemon is responsible for this?
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20:13.35TheoryjunkY_San: Control Centre -> Regional & Accessibility -> Input Actions -> Preset Actions
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20:13.46Theoryyou should have an entry under there called PrintScreen
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20:16.55Ace2007kcontrol -> regional & accessibility -> Input Actions, then go into the second tab called general settings, and then untick "Disable KHotkeys daemon" and print screen should work again
20:17.00Ace2007thats what i had to do get it to work
20:17.55Ace2007If you don't see the general settings tab, you have to click on the global settings tab at the bottom
20:18.19Ace2007for some strange reason it was disabled in gentoo
20:18.37junkY_Sanmh, doesn't work for me
20:18.40junkY_Sani'm using gentoo too
20:18.47RenzeAce2007: it wasn't disabled in my gentoo
20:19.04Ace2007junkY_San: So print screen won't work?
20:19.10SutokaAce2007: its not disabled in gentoo by default (at least here)
20:19.35Ace2007well sorry to ask the obvious but is ksnapshot emerged
20:20.35junkY_Sankhotkeys is running
20:20.54*** join/#kde somegeek (i=levin@tor/regular/somegeek)
20:21.19Ace2007and print screen is enabled in Input actions?
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20:23.23Ace2007is there a way to get gnome apps to use kde icons, i don't like the ones in use
20:23.54SutokaAce2007: ATM i think only if you made a gnome icon theme using a kde icon theme's icons
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20:24.26SutokaAce2007: the tango naming spec should make that problem moot though (Oxygen will be following the naming spec)
20:24.54Ace2007Oxygen? Tango Naming spec?
20:25.12RenzeOxygen: KDE4's default icon theme
20:25.14*** join/#kde DralaFi (
20:25.36DralaFiHow can one have cool window decorations (close, minimise and maximise) like in this picture?
20:25.39Ace2007oh thats a nice name
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20:26.06Ace2007DralaFi: You mean what theme is used?
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20:26.25RenzeDralaFi: install the crystal windeco
20:26.35DralaFiAce2007, yes, partly. Also what do I need to install to use such a theme.
20:26.44peter__i have an...strange question
20:26.45DralaFiDoes that use deKorator?
20:26.54Renzeit's native, not pixmap crap
20:26.59peter__how to set the homepage in konqueror ??
20:27.03DralaFigood - deKorator makes the title bar and the buttons dissapear
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20:27.12Renzepeter__: go to the page, save your profile
20:27.13Ace2007DralaFi: Its just crystal:
20:27.22aseigoSutoka: Ace2007: actually, both kde and gnome use the same icon theme standard
20:27.34peter__renze is there no normal way of doing it??
20:27.40Ace2007I don't like the oxygen folder theme
20:27.51junkY_SanAce2007: i rechecked again. the print screen works during hotkey assigning, but it still won't take a snapshot when i press it
20:27.54Renzepeter__: you mean normal like the way other browsers do it? no
20:27.55Ace2007i like the standing folder
20:27.56aseigoSutoka: Ace2007: the trick, however, is that we don't use the same icon names all the time ;) so while you can set the icon theme to be whatever not all the "native" icons will be drawn from that icon theme
20:28.12RenzeAce2007: it's a work in progress, not a final theme
20:28.20DralaFiAce2007, Renze: thanks, I'll try crystal.
20:28.26Sutokaok i was half right then!
20:28.51peter__renze why are many things in kde so... non-intuitional (sry for my english, i hope you understand what i want to say :) )
20:29.17Renzepeter__: "the only intuitive interface is the nipple... everything else is learned" -- me.
20:29.51Ace2007I use Aero Glass:
20:29.58Renzepeter__: just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad... sometimes change is a good thing
20:30.18peter__renze ok, but what is better, to go in the "options" menu and change the homepage or try to find where to change it and finnaly go to the kde irc channel and ask??
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20:30.31Renzepeter__: I never had to ask :)
20:30.46peter__don't thing i'm a new linux user
20:30.50peter__i don't ;]
20:31.08junkY_SanAce2007: it seems like the print screen doesn't activate knsapshot, or at least fails to load it
20:31.23peter__but, it's just...
20:31.26RenzejunkY_San: does ksnapshot work if launched in any other way?
20:31.43peter__kde tends to do things very hard to manage
20:31.49DralaFiAce2007, yes but that is deKorator theme, and deKorator doesn't work on this machine and my laptop (both different distros)
20:31.50junkY_SanRenze: yes
20:31.57junkY_Sani found something in kdm.log:
20:32.23Renzepeter__: you have access to the sourcecode... make it better, submit patches
20:32.44peter__i learn cpp, when i'll be ready with it, maybe i will
20:33.08RenzejunkY_San: aha... maybe your printscreen button doesn't have a symbol assigned to it
20:33.23RenzejunkY_San: I bet if you fix your keyboard layout issues, all will be well
20:33.25junkY_Sanbut i can assign it in the control center
20:33.28peter__renze but, you see, this is something that should be that hard to figure out :]
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20:33.47Renzepeter__: it wasn't hard to figure out.
20:33.52Ace2007junkY_San: well you could creat a new action and then asign it to another shortcut combo and get that to a different app, like kwrite, if it works, change the key combo to print, test it, and if that works change the app to ksnapshot,l and this should show you where the problem lies
20:34.20junkY_Sanhow can i create a new action
20:34.25peter__renze eh, ok, but it's not obvious
20:34.42junkY_Sanwait a sec
20:34.43junkY_Sanrestarting x
20:34.58Ace2007kcontrol > regional and access... > Input Actions
20:35.00Renzepeter__: obvious == just like every other browser, since they must do it the right way?
20:35.33*** join/#kde junkY_San (
20:35.42Ace2007One hard thing in konqueror whas having to refresh the plugins when installing flash, never knew i had to do that
20:35.50peter__renze is the way other browser handle it bad??
20:36.29peter__renze and yes, i think just about everybody would search the "change homepage" option in the options menu...
20:36.30Renzepeter__: not bad... but limiting. konqueror's profile system lets you have as many default pages as you want. you just select the profile you want to start with.
20:36.40Ace2007junkY_San: kcontrol > regional and access... > Input Actions, you can make a new one there
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20:37.25peter__renze i don't say the profile system is bad, i just think that it should be more intuitive to configure
20:37.44Renzethere's that word again... people use that word far too often
20:38.14peter__yeah i know
20:38.17Renzeit's not intuition at play here... it's learned response based on "training" from other browsers :P
20:38.36peter__i don't think so
20:38.49junkY_SanAce2007: doesn't work
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20:38.58Ace2007the new action?
20:39.09peter__why mess around and place some options here some there, when there is a menu called "options" ?
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20:39.39Renzepeter__: make a "profile management" section for konqueror settings... or suggest one on
20:39.40peter__or "configure konqueror" :p
20:40.41junkY_Sanwhen i press the print key a process called kwin appears and needs relativ much resources
20:40.41Renzethere is already a profile manager... just migrate it to where you think it belongs
20:41.15Renzekwin is KDE's window manager
20:41.33Renzeunless you've neglected to mention that you're using XGL/Compiz
20:41.44peter__i don't
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20:42.34peter__renze i'm not a gnome fanboy or a kde fanboy, i'm one of the strange guys who don' have a religious connection to his DE :]
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20:42.52peter__renze but i think KDE should do things more user friendly :]
20:42.58Renzepeter__: um, I was talking to junkY_San about the XGL/Compiz thing
20:43.08peter__yeah, i figured that out ;]
20:43.14Renzepeter__: it's perfectly friendly to me :)
20:43.22peter__heh ^^
20:43.23Renzeam I not a user??
20:43.29junkY_Sanmh this really goes on my nerves
20:43.33peter__a long-term kde user :]
20:43.40Renzeonly since version 1.2 :)
20:43.54Renzeor was that 1.1?
20:43.59Renzecan't remember
20:44.00peter__u see
20:44.27peter__but for me Gnome is sometimes too limited, and KDE... just offer to much options at the same time
20:44.30junkY_Sanother shortcuts like "windowskey+R" to execute a command work perfectly
20:44.51RenzeI like options
20:44.54junkY_Sanbut as soon as i assign the command to the print key it doesn't work anymore
20:44.55peter__me too
20:45.14peter__but i mean "to much at the same time"
20:45.37Renzepeter__: that's where our opinions differ... I would like to see more options :D
20:45.51Ace2007junkY_San: the entire Preset Actions aren't disabled are they? in kcontrol in Input Actions
20:45.53junkY_Sanseems like kde doesn't like my print key
20:45.58peter__more options - ok
20:46.07Ace2007junkY_San: ignore that
20:46.10peter__but not "at the same time" :D
20:46.13peter__u know
20:46.21peter__make some level of options
20:46.43Renzeyou mean like "hide all the cool stuff, I'm a n00b"? :D
20:46.55peter__yeah something like that
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20:47.24peter__and the advanced options make avaiable when you check a box or press a button to do so
20:47.37peter__and make the adv...
20:47.38junkY_Sanwhere can i see what the input of a command tells my system, especialy kde?
20:47.43Renzepeter__: you have the code... implement it :)
20:47.51RenzejunkY_San: xev
20:47.55peter__renze i told you before ;]
20:48.05Renzepeter__: no excuse... learn c++ :P
20:48.12Ace2007bash: xev: command not found ??
20:48.14peter__i'll do :]
20:48.34Ace2007oh its not a part of the x-server
20:48.37Renzepeter__: this has been suggested before many times... go vote for it on
20:48.55RenzeAce2007: it used to be, before they split it up
20:49.01peter__renze ok
20:49.17peter__renze but for what should i search??
20:49.38Renzepeter__: I have no idea, I'm afraid
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20:50.08RenzejunkY_San: the key has a symbol, then
20:52.02Ace2007bye all
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20:56.05junkY_Sanworks now
20:56.17junkY_Sanbut not with the usual assignment
20:56.33junkY_Sani had to create a new action with "ksnapshot" and assign the print-key to it
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20:57.45aisixt_is it possible to run korganizer in windows (prefered win 2k and xp)?
20:57.54Renzenot currently, no
20:58.20aisixt_Renze: you meant me?
20:58.26Renzeaisixt_: yes
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20:58.43aisixt_Renze: ok thx for the fast answer ;)
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20:59.02Renzeaisixt_: Qt3 is not free for windows... Qt4 is. And there is effort porting kdelibs to win32 at the moment.
20:59.32pinotreekdelibs of kde4, to be precise
20:59.45aisixt_so its possible, that it would work in future?
20:59.57Renzeit's possible
21:00.12aisixt_that's great =)
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21:00.27Renzeopinions differ... some people hate the idea :)
21:00.42junkY_Sangood night!
21:01.12aisixt_Renze: and i understand them ;)
21:01.24junkY_Santhanks for your help!
21:01.27junkY_Sanbye bye
21:01.33RenzejunkY_San: no problem
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21:04.39aisixt_Renze: u are an kde developer?
21:04.45Renzenope, just a user
21:04.57Renzealthough I aspire to contributing code in the future
21:05.38aisixt_me too ;)
21:06.34letalisman renze, do you sleep?
21:06.47Renzeletalis: um, it's 9:06am :P
21:06.52aisixt_but not for kde, it looks to be to large for a beginner ;)
21:07.00letalisok fair enough
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21:16.26RenzePhilRod: I do the user support thing, but I do want to code too :D
21:17.26aseigoaisixt_: it's like getting into the ocean.. you start at the short and slowly wade in deeper and deepr
21:17.48thiagobut, of course, we badly need coders
21:17.52Renzeaseigo: until you're being circled by sharks? :D
21:17.53thiagocore coders in special
21:17.56aseigoaisixt_: it's really not too large as long as you start by wading around in the shallows first ... such as playing around with a specific app
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21:20.05aisixt_aseigo: i think i musst start by playing with cvs/subversion (is that correct grammar?)
21:21.00aseigoaisixt_: we use svn (subversion) ... there's a good online book for that..
21:21.21thiagoI think we have SVN tutorials on
21:21.22*** join/#kde mustasj (
21:21.30aseigoaisixt_: and our wiki page
21:21.39thiagothat are more specific to KDE development, which should be helpful enough
21:22.27aseigoin particular
21:22.29aisixt_oh thx for the infos =)
21:23.25thiagothe wiki page looks like something I started a year and a half ago and didn't update
21:23.39thiagosvn up -N trunk branches tags work  <--- suspicious
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21:26.12aisixt_if i hear words like "trunks", "branches" or "tags", i become very scared ;)
21:27.58aisixt_which version am i now?
21:28.13thiagoaisixt_: ok, quick explanation of trunk -> branches -> tags
21:28.26thiagodevelopment is like a tree: everyone works in one central codebase
21:28.32thiagothat is called the trunk: it grows up
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21:29.01thiagowhenever there's a specific need to work isolatedly, we "branch": we start growing to the side
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21:29.34thiagotag is just a way to store the state of the branch or trunk at a specific date/time
21:30.29aisixt_ok, that was quick and dirty ;)
21:30.45BlackBsdwhere can i find the source for glxgears?
21:31.13aisixt_are there todos for kde?
21:31.16BlackBsdi guess as part of xorg distro..
21:35.31thiagoaisixt_: lots of them :-)
21:35.38thiagothere's a KDE4 TODO somewhere...
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21:47.12Renzeand that's why I hate changing settings on my router :)
21:49.09isolationistmy router allows you to backup your configuration but is unable to read it back in
21:49.38Renzeall my connections go south and I have to reestablish them
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21:50.41Renzeanywho, gotta get ready for a couple of appointments
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22:05.56athlonmxi/me announces that edonkey is r.i.p
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22:07.17acetoxyHm, I've got some problems with wheel event in titlebar actions. The current setting is "Shade/Unshade", but instead it raises/lowers the window.
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22:08.24athlonmxcan one be really be jailed for downloading illegally music through peer to peer  ?
22:08.48thiagoathlonmx: yes
22:08.59thiagoone can be jailed for doing anything that is illegal
22:09.04thiagojust because it's illegal
22:09.33athlonmxdownloading music ?
22:09.37thiagoif you're legally downloading music, however, then you can't
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22:10.22athlonmxwhy legally
22:10.25thiagoof course, it depends on your region's penal code to determine what's the penalty for such an offense
22:10.28athlonmxpeer to peer is legal
22:10.33thiagoit could be jail, it could be a fine, it could be something else
22:10.46athlonmxand there you are right
22:10.49thiagoathlonmx: you said it yourself: "*illegal* downloading"
22:10.51athlonmxit depnds on the region
22:11.09thiagoby definition, illegal downloading is... illegal :-)
22:11.22athlonmxso peer to peer is not legal ?
22:11.29athlonmxfile sharing I mean
22:11.35thiagoit depends on what you share
22:11.41athlonmxI share files
22:11.51thiagoit depends on the contents of those files.
22:12.03athlonmxit is gunzipped with pw
22:12.21thiagoif you're violating the license of any copyrighted work, it's illegal
22:12.25aseigothiago: actually, not in canada
22:12.50thiagoaseigo: by definition, if you're not allowed to do it, it's illegal
22:12.54thiagoif you're allowed, it's legal :-)
22:12.55aseigothiago: right now it's legal to d/l materials .. we had a supreme court ruling on this a year or two ago to the shock of everyone and horror of the riaa
22:13.12athlonmxbut peer to peer allow me to do it ,right ?
22:13.24aseigoathlonmx: a gun allows you to shoot people. =)
22:13.30thiagoathlonmx: It's not the technology that says if you're allowed to do it or not. It's the law.
22:13.52aseigothiago: so right now we have a really wierd situation where it's violating the copyrights, but it's not illegal... people are working on "fixing" that though
22:14.06athlonmxso,we cannot share personal tar .gz with guid names files with friends
22:14.24thiagoaseigo: one could say that instead of violating the copyrights, the copyrights' licenses have been changed to allow that
22:14.25aseigoathlonmx: as thiago says it has everything to do with the contents of the files and the laws where you live
22:14.33pinotreeathlonmx: will you be on topic sometimes?
22:14.38athlonmxbut what if I dont know the content
22:14.49aseigoathlonmx: i suggest consulting a lawyer. not this channel.
22:14.49thiagoathlonmx: if you don't know the content, why are you sharing the file in the first place?
22:15.04athlonmxI am not sharing
22:15.17athlonmxI am using it because a friend of me on kde channel told me
22:15.41athlonmxhe said it was the latest whitepaper of his download manager
22:15.43thiagook, to end this conversation: do you think a judge would find that argument convincing? :-)
22:16.22thiagogood night everyone
22:16.28pinotreenight thiago
22:16.29aseigothiago: g'nite man
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22:17.04pinotreenight athlonmx
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22:26.15megamaxI have a question
22:26.49megamaxare you sure you banned me ?
22:27.20Renzetime for a hostmask ban?
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22:30.52megamaxhey hey
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22:36.34MinceRwhy isn't this channel +n ?
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22:38.03pinotreeMinceR: isn't it already?
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22:39.11MinceRmy client didn't show it as +n and megamax could msg the channel when he wasn't here
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22:48.31lgsobalvarrohello canllaith
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