irclog2html for #kde on 20060325

00:00.08df00zthey said if it behaves different with different nvidia cards, then DEFINATLY they can look deeper into it
00:00.12benJImanit seems worse with some cards than others
00:00.12df00zotherwise, possibly not
00:00.21df00zYeah, I'm gonna test my old GF4MX again
00:00.30df00zI think it was faster, but I didn't test it too long
00:00.34benJImaneg it's annoyingly bad on mine, but on 6600/6800 machines i've installed it's really slow like vnc
00:00.42benJIman(I have 5900xt)
00:00.48oneforallweird why is fish not working in konq now
00:00.51oneforallfish: WARNING: KLocale: trying to look up "" in catalog. Fix the program
00:00.58oneforallworked the other day
00:01.05pinotreethat's a warning
00:01.30oneforallAn error occurred while loading fish://
00:01.42oneforallthis worked yesterday
00:02.45SimAtWorkoneforall: that's happend to me when i upgraded to a diff version of kde without restarting my desktop
00:02.49SimAtWorkoneforall: only time i've seen that though
00:03.11benJImandf00z: it's really noticable on all the machines we have at university, they all run kde, last year were rhel3 with 6629 drivers, was nice and fast, this year rhel4 with latest drivers and everything takes a while to paint
00:03.25benJImankfmclient openProfile webbrowsing
00:03.29oneforallyeah I just restarted and I upgraded to 3.5.1 a while ago now
00:03.35benJImankfmclient openURL , or something
00:03.46df00zYeah, but ignore 6629
00:03.48df00zas it's wrong
00:03.56df00zWho cares if it's fast if it's wrong
00:04.09df00zSubpixel hinting is really only for LCDs
00:04.45benJImanit's all of the rendering that's slow, not just subpixel hinting
00:05.03teatimeoneforall: or "konqueror --profile filemanagement"
00:05.22oneforallok that did it
00:05.46df00zOnly grayscale font AA is accelerated, they said, but it's still not very fast
00:05.48oneforallna no error for it in the term :(
00:06.06df00zI'm gonna throw my old card back in, brb
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00:06.11oneforallASSERT: "!icon.isEmpty()" in (79)
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00:10.04oneforallhmm light was still on the friggin hub when I first typed it in . Now I look and its off O.o :)
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00:13.00oneforallerr nope it connect to the other cp . popup for password . O.o
00:13.31oneforallah maybe something hasn't been deleted in tmp
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00:19.39thordonCan anyone tell me why my fonts are tiny, is it an xserver thing?
00:20.14benJImanyou can increase the font size, independantly of the x server dpi if you want
00:20.54thordonI tried to change it in kde config, but it didnt apply everywhere
00:21.20thordonfor example, the text I am typing now is tiny, but it appears fine in the main window
00:21.45benJImankhtml assumes dpi is 96
00:21.52JordiGHYes, try apt-getting xfonts-dpi100
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00:22.19JordiGHEr, apt-get install xfont-100dpi
00:22.19benJImanyou'll have to force X dpi to 96/100 to get them looking the same in khtmlviews and input fields
00:23.03JordiGHaidan: Try apt-cache searching for spiders. Looks swish-e might be useful.
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00:23.26swimhey folks, im trying to use dekorator... so i installed it, then went under the themes tab and tried to install a dekorator theme i downloaded, but if I select the tar.gz file it says: The file is not a valid deKorator theme archive.
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00:24.05thordonbenJIman: How do I force it in X? I didnt see a line for it in xorg.conf
00:25.48oneforallerrr ping that ip and its working but restart kde and I still can't connect
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00:26.20oneforallfish:// to the other pc works . deleted stuff in /tmp
00:26.32oneforallwhat else can be screwing this up ?
00:26.36benJImanthordon: in the Xservers file
00:28.14oneforallits like its keeping the first record from the first attempt. So when I close konq down its not being deleted or something like that
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00:31.26sunraii really dont like the usb mass storage icon in kde..can i change it? :)
00:31.39oneforallah dudh fish is for linux to linux pc right and smb for linux to win
00:31.59JordiGHSure, sunrai. Just right-click on it and pick a different icon.
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00:32.06oneforallright click properties and go from there
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00:32.15sunraicant using hald, kio-slave.
00:32.31oneforallhald whats that ?
00:32.54oneforallah ok
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00:33.20oneforallit won't let you change icons . man thats terrible
00:33.42sunraiits auto detected
00:34.04sunraiapparently when you plug in an ipod it detects that and gives you an ipod icon on your desktop.
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00:34.21swimhey folks, im trying to use dekorator... so i installed it, then went under the themes tab and tried to install a dekorator theme i downloaded, but if I select the tar.gz file it says: The file is not a valid deKorator theme archive.
00:34.43sunraihey what theme/window/style is this ? ->
00:35.18sunraii think theres great themes out there that are much better than plastic.
00:35.38sunraijust dont know where to find them :(
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00:36.58oneforallwell auto stuff sounds good but thats one reason there i don't use it . It allways takes over and makes it hard to over ride things and take control
00:37.17sunraiits the way
00:37.26oneforallnot for me thanks lol
00:38.27sunraibecause with removable devices, if they are not physically attached to your computer then theres no icon on your desktop.
00:38.40oneforallaccually 3.5.1 with the auto detect is driving me nuts . like win was for inserting a cd. I found out fast how to totlly disable it :)
00:38.54sunraisoon as you plug it in, icon appears
00:39.28oneforallumm no I have a usb mass storage camra . I made a desktop icon for it . Plug in the camera and click the icon auto enough for me
00:39.51oneforallit does both ptp and mass
00:40.40sunraiptp with cameras and kioslaves is broken in kde anyhow.
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00:41.09oneforallah ptp I use gtkam works
00:41.12stonedI want to translate for kde
00:41.24stonedi know english and urdu/pakistani
00:42.03oneforallin fact I told them that this camera works with ptp and gave them the info they needed and they aded it to gphoto2 cvs so it will be listed next release
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00:49.42oneforallhmm weird kde must have their own smbfs module cause I did lsmod and don't see that loaded
00:49.47oneforallusing smb://
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00:58.44YggdrasilOSdoes ktorrent support DHT?
00:59.41benJImanwhat's DHT?
01:00.11YggdrasilOSDynamic Hash Tables
01:00.19YggdrasilOSbasically, allows for trackerless torrents
01:00.37spiritznot sure
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01:00.46benJImanah it has support for UDP distributed trackers in 1.2
01:01.06jsharpewhat's a KDE equivolent of gdmsetup, so that i can setup auto-login????
01:01.26YggdrasilOSazureus supports it, but it keeps bombing on my system for some reason
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01:01.40YggdrasilOSand i hate using such a bloated torrent client
01:01.42benJImanit connects to azureus and bitcomet etc clients with the udp trackers
01:01.56YggdrasilOSudp tracker != dht
01:02.10YggdrasilOSdht = trackerless do i enable auto-login?
01:04.34benJImanyou can enable it there, or with your distro tools
01:04.38benJImanwhat distro are you using?
01:05.33jsharpeme? ubuntu beta5
01:05.47benJImanprobably best the kcontrol then
01:06.49jsharpethere's nothing in "login manager" about it though
01:06.57jsharpeoh, nevermind
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01:18.30ChodderHow can I change my k-menu icon?  I changed my icon set but apparently it didn't have a k-menu icon, how can I switch it manually like my other panel icons?
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01:19.55Lanulk_the_Uruk_themes wallpaper etc
01:20.02sunraihey what theme/window/style is this ? ->
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01:22.25Chodderthere is no way to just change that one icon, because it switched the icon from the default kde one to a distro default one
01:23.27benJImanyou can replace that icon file in the icon directory or in the directory of the same name in ~/.kde I think
01:24.44[Nige]does anyone know how to get daul screens and different backgrounds for each monitor working in kubuntu / kde?
01:24.55[Nige]as in I want a different background per monitor
01:25.39benJImanupgrade to kde 3.5
01:25.43benJImanit's a new feature
01:25.55Chodderya use that new kubuntu
01:26.04Chodderdapper drake or whatever its called
01:26.06benJImanalternatively you'll have to stitch together two images in the older versions
01:26.10[Nige]is that to me benJIman ?
01:26.25[Nige]so how do i find out my current kde version
01:26.32benJImankde-config --version
01:26.33Chodderjust upgrade to dapper
01:26.45benJImanor any help -> about kde
01:26.46Chodderthey have instructions in the ubuntu forums on how to do it
01:26.48[Nige]yer but dapper isnt released yet
01:26.53benJImanyou could just upgrade kde I think
01:27.09[Nige]okay, so kde is 3.4.3
01:27.10Chodderdapper beta is pretty stable, i have it on a laptop
01:27.22[Nige]my next question is how do i upgrade kde to 3,5 or 4 :)
01:27.32[Nige]if i run a simple update
01:27.32Chodder4 isnt out...
01:27.42[Nige]i dont think its isnt released in my repository yet
01:27.47Choddergo to #kubuntu...
01:27.56Chodderyou need to change your repos
01:29.24puslinghmm.. my kde freezes on boot - just while kicker is starting up. any clue how to debug it ? (monitor, keyboard, mouse freezes)
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01:31.51benJImansounds like a driver issue
01:31.59benJImanpusling: have you enabled composite or anything like that?
01:32.34puslingI might have it enabled in my xorg.conf - but not in kcontrol
01:33.22puslingI have just done mv .kde kdefoo - and rebooting to test what happens
01:33.59sunraihey what theme/window/style is this ? ->
01:34.50puslingsunrai: who is the girl ?
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01:35.04toxygeni would need help with kate
01:35.07toxygenanyone alive?
01:35.13benJImansunrai: looks like kde2x style and quartz decoration
01:35.30teatimesunrai: "quartz"
01:35.48toxygeni would like it to replace given word for non-line. delete it also with space which is left after normal replace
01:36.20toxygendelete whole line through find&replace. is it possible?
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01:42.06Lanulk_the_Uruk_good night for all
01:42.13Lanulk_the_Uruk_here is 2 of am
01:43.15puslinghmm... I have some setting in .kde that makes everything freeze. How do I track the setting down ?
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01:56.26df00zI sent an email to a nvidia dev, who's gonna look into it
01:56.35df00zI now know that it's a kde bug and a nvidia bug :P
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01:56.57df00zbecause it even happens with the Vesa driver
01:57.03df00zalthough not as pronounced
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02:06.00nillaxso...can someone help me with a little thing I got going on?
02:06.06df00zbenJiman: I hope this goes somewhere :)
02:06.22nillaxare there any rules in this channel about asking questions?
02:06.42sunrulesbe a rebel
02:06.46sunrulesbust some rules
02:06.56df00zNo questions allowed
02:07.03df00zif you have questions get off the network ^_^
02:07.07df00zLol im joking
02:07.08df00zwhat is it?
02:07.53nillaxwell....just point me in the right direction to how i might get kaffeine to play .avi files
02:08.19sunrulesinstall mplayer
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02:08.41sunrulesmplayer xine-lib then compile kaffeine
02:08.50nillaxi got some great albino porn!
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02:26.38tjh_Hi! How do I change the size of the icons in the panel in KDE without changing the size of the panel?
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02:33.53Hairulfrtjh_: control center > icons > panel
02:35.08karuna_murtiHairulfr : My panel choice is disabled, i was going to say that until i found it disabled
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02:54.50swimhas anyone used dekorator, and installed a theme for it? I cant seem to do that
02:55.33df00zHarmish Rodda around?
02:58.45karuna_murtiswim : i did
02:59.20swimkaruna_murti: cool, see Im trying to install a theme this one actually:
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02:59.40ShockValuehowdy all.. new linux user, had a question about cdripping in KDE if ya got a sec
03:00.08ShockValuei have k3b installed, but that looks more like a burner suite than a solid ripper... is there a good choice for ripping?
03:00.21HuntsManShockValue: KAudioCreator
03:00.23swimand when I go into dekorator Ive tried browsing to that file which is a tar.gz but dekorator says its the wrong file type... so I then extracted it into .kde/share/apps/deKorator/themes/ and it still doesnt find it
03:00.33karuna_murtiswim: what version of dekorator u use?
03:00.41ScytheBlade1ShockValue, if you're ripping audio, grimp (gnome app) comes *highly recommended*
03:00.50ShockValueHuntsMan: does that interface with cdparanoia, do you know by chance?
03:00.56swimkaruna_murti: 0.3
03:01.06HuntsManShockValue: mmm, i think yes, you should check :)
03:01.16ShockValuei was kind of trying to stay with kde/qt type apps
03:01.19karuna_murtiwell it seems the theme is for 0.1
03:01.55swimoh... no wonder... karuna_murti can I update it myself somehow?
03:02.04karuna_murtithe problem with dekorator theme in kde-look is sometimes thet don't mention for what version
03:02.05ScytheBlade1ShockValue, then stay with KDE/Qt, but really, grip does the job better than anything else I've found
03:02.07ScytheBlade1(my two cents)
03:02.12karuna_murtior bad packaging
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03:03.22ShockValueehh ok.. kaudiocreator homepage hasn't paid their bills and are shutdown :)
03:03.36karuna_murtiwell, there is sample package included in dekorator, try renaming that nuvblend files following dekorator sample package
03:03.47HuntsManShockValue: it's part of kdemultimedia
03:04.00swimkaruna_murti: really? i dont see anything in that themes folder
03:04.41ShockValueyeah, i'd like to check out the stats before i install it tho -
03:04.50karuna_murtithere is sample theme in the dekorator source
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03:09.57[Nige]how do i change the background text colour for icons
03:10.06[Nige]it is being most mysterious
03:10.12[Nige]i cant seem to find it anywhere
03:12.10[Nige]nevermind i foudn it
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03:27.15SbCl3how do I extract a multipart rar archive (for example file.r01 file.r02 file.r03 file.r04) so that it produces a single large file with nothing overwriting anything else?
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03:29.49Digital_PioneerHi. When I hover over an icon on the taskbar, then a tooltip comes up.
03:30.07Digital_PioneerBut that tooltip is just a small square with text... What happened to my animation?
03:30.11Digital_PioneerHow do I turn it back on?
03:30.57Digital_PioneerIt used to play an animation where the tooltip had rounded corners and appeared from left to right in a series of growing circles fashion. What happened to it?
03:32.17ShockValuehmm, seems K3b is doing it ok.. not sure how to check if its using cdparanoia or not though
03:32.44Digital_PioneerShockValue: Are you talking to me?
03:32.56Digital_PioneerOK, sorry.
03:33.26Digital_PioneerOh, and BTW, if it matters, I'm using Debian Sarge stable.
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03:34.54Digital_Pioneer/leave "Don't everybody answer me at once!"
03:35.31karuna_murtiDigital_Pioneer : 3.5.x is different from 3.4x
03:35.53Digital_PioneerHi, karuna_murti.
03:35.59Digital_PioneerWhat's your point?
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03:36.24Digital_PioneerAre you saying it can't be done?
03:36.56smileafthat animation was added in 3.5
03:37.05hagabakadamn it
03:37.07Digital_PioneerI think I have 3.5...
03:37.34Digital_PioneerOK, I'll BBL... LOL
03:37.38hagabakakmail refuses to exit when I kill it, and i can't start a new one
03:37.47smileafDigital_Pioneer: not in 3.5 I take it ;)
03:38.04swimfolks Im trying to compile some kde window decorations, and i keep gettiing what looks like a simillar error:
03:38.49smileafswim: try this: make clean && make
03:39.09HuntsManswim: you're missing some development headers
03:39.41Digital_Pioneersmileaf: I think I am...
03:39.47Digital_PioneerHow do I find out?
03:39.56smileafDigital_Pioneer: kcontrol
03:40.23Digital_PioneerI'm on 3.3.2...
03:40.26swimsmileaf: yah same thing
03:40.27karuna_murtiswim: kdecoration.h is in kdebase package, try installing kdebase lib devel or something
03:40.31Digital_PioneerOr so says the control panel...
03:40.33swimHuntsMan: anyway to figure out what?
03:40.43smileafswim: what distro you using?
03:40.54smileafyou have the -dev packages installed?
03:41.13swimi must have some because I have compiled other things before
03:41.25Digital_Pioneersmileaf: How do I install the new one?
03:41.43smileafDigital_Pioneer: #debian-kde I think it is?
03:42.02Digital_PioneerLooks like an invitation to leave.
03:42.24smileafI don't have debian and don't know anything about it.. they'd be the best ones to ask
03:42.46smileafif it were an invitation to leave I'd say #gtfo :D
03:43.05swimah that was it i installed kdebase dev and it worked thanks :)
03:43.18HuntsManswim: :)
03:43.40smileafevil binary distributions :)
03:43.41Digital_PioneerWhat I don't get is how on earth I've seen that anim before on this system.
03:44.42Digital_PioneerOh well.
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03:59.52jbennesi'm on. may I ask a question
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04:00.15A10ncan anyone help me out with kate
04:00.22A10nwhen i press enter, i want kate to go to the next line below but at the same column number
04:00.28jbenneshey what a gas
04:00.29A10nyou know, when you are coding and don't want to keep on pressing tab/space to make things align, is this possible
04:00.59jbenneshaven't the vaguest what your talking about
04:01.10A10nauto indent
04:01.25jbennesdont know what that is
04:01.27A10nlike emacs, when you press enter to go down one line and autoindent for you to the same position
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04:01.35A10ndon't you program?
04:01.49HuntsManA10n: see the preferences, has a section about indenting
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04:02.23Syco54645when using k3b with the newest growisofs i now get :-( unable to pread64(2) primary volume descriptor: Input/output error you most likely want to use -Z option.
04:02.29Syco54645anyone know a fix for that
04:02.32jbennesI have two messages in my inbox and i can't seem to gretrieve them
04:03.03A10nHuntsMan, yup i see it but no worka for me :/ but thanks
04:03.35jbennesalanwho are you talking to
04:03.47HuntsManA10n: well i have "C Style" indenting and works like a charm
04:04.04A10nhmm, yup me too :/ maybe some other setting then i have checked on
04:04.11jbennesi'm off
04:07.08A10nHuntsMan, do you have "emacs style mixmode" checked off?
04:07.37HuntsMani cant select it
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04:07.53HuntsManso, it's off
04:08.40A10ni c'
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04:10.57A10ni figured it out
04:11.05A10neven thouth i was going to preferences and changing indent in there
04:11.10A10nit didn't do anything
04:11.23A10nbut if i went to Tools->indentation and then clicked on C Style, now it works
04:11.34A10nwhat a bunch of @!(*
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04:13.12patrick____hey, i was wondering if it were at all possible to make the KNewsTicker open pages in Firefox?
04:13.44patrick____i'm using suse10.0 and the most current KDE
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04:47.02oxezI added a MIME-type in Konqueror, I named it: audio/guitar-pro. I added the files associations *.gp4, *.gp3, *.GP3, *.GP4, changed the icon that type of file. But, in konqueror (and on my desktop), those files still have the blank icon :/
04:47.47oxezThose .gp3/.gp4 files open the correct application (guitar pro 4), it's only a problem with the icon, I tried .png/.xpm/.svg
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04:54.16YggdrasilOScan anyone recommend a good image mounting daemon?
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04:55.53CHodappimage mounting?
04:56.08YggdrasilOSlike for mounting .bin/.cue images on loopback
04:56.43xororandYggdrasilOS: cdemu
04:57.10karuna_murtimount iso from kde-apps is good
04:57.34karuna_murtiyou'll need cdemu too
04:57.36YggdrasilOSi can mount iso images w/o's bin/cue images that it complains about
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04:58.33YggdrasilOSi'm working on a way to shell-script converting from flac/cue cdda images to per-track flac files, with tags transferred intact
04:58.48YggdrasilOStis a bit tricky
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04:59.35YggdrasilOSso far, the best way seems to be to use cuecue to convert to bin/cue, then mount the bin/cue image as a virtual audio cd, and rip with cdparanoia
05:00.47stonedhi, I run debian sarge.  I have installed java and it works in firefox.  I have also given konqueror the $PATH in Plugins but it still won't scan the java plugins.  The mozilla-mplayer/flashplayer plugins are detected by konqueror.  Also it won't pickup the adobe acrobat plugin either.
05:01.02stonedare they not supposed to work with konqueror?
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05:08.13[Nige]sorry to be a pain
05:08.24[Nige]I have a few questions with kde, i am used to gnome4
05:08.27[Nige]gnome rather
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05:09.31[Nige]is it possible when your grouping icons to get it to behave so that when I click on a group list i can chose the one I want and activate it just by left clicking on it?
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05:11.48[Nige]ahh got it
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05:15.58YggdrasilOSi'm running Kopete 0.11.1, does that version support AIM file transfer?
05:16.52hagabakait doesn't work for me
05:17.16hagabakaany file it "downloads" ends up empty
05:17.29YggdrasilOSand i was hoping to avoid going back to GAIM
05:19.33hagabakadoes it not work for you either?
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05:20.28hagabakai never checked if it was a known bug...don't get files on AIM very often
05:21.20ijwynyou know what would be a neat feature for kmail? a feature that would strip all html code from a message... I have it set to display only plain text, so when there's html I get all the tags and it's a nightmare to read the stuff...
05:21.58ijwynI don't get many mails like that -- at least not that I'd care to read, most of the time it's spam, but there are exceptions, and it'd be nice to be able to read those with just a click of the mouse to remove all the tags
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05:50.41[Nige]does kde have an equilivant to gdesklets
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06:04.32ShockValuewhen i use audiocd:/ and browse the flac folder, it shows the files as "artist - tracknum - trackname.flac".. is there anyway to change it to include albumname as well?
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06:14.05ShockValuenevermind, missed the "audiocd" in control center :)
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06:21.53anisXgreetings all :)
06:22.01anisXi still need someone help me about a kicker/panels
06:22.11nige_is it a bug that the panel doesnt show applications from all screens?
06:22.30ShockValueno, its an option
06:22.31anisXno , im not sure whether its a bug or fedora is broken
06:22.43anisXi dont have any option for panels in kcontrol
06:22.52anisXi even cant move the panel or rezise the panel
06:22.58nige_well i tell it show it from all screens and it doesnt :S
06:23.05anisXsee this
06:23.09ShockValueoh, well that might be a problem then :)
06:23.21ShockValuecant you right click the panel and choose "config panel" ?
06:23.32anisXi already add new user..and test it on new user..before this i have lost my kdegraphics and kdemultimedia..
06:23.38anisXnow i just having a problem with panels
06:23.48anisXfrom the screenshot , see my kicker..its horrible
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06:23.58nige_i will take a snapshot and show you what I mean
06:24.10anisXok nige_
06:24.25anisXi wish i can re-install back my kicker
06:24.51anisXbut i already yum groupremove kde and yum groupinstall kde , nothing good
06:24.53anisXstill same
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06:25.28anisXnige_ : 2 helpers told me that is fedora's fault
06:25.47nige_well i am not using fedora core though
06:25.52nige_I am using kubuntu
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06:28.46ijwynanisX: looking at that screenshot, I don't see anything wrong with your panel?
06:29.03anisXijwyn: ok now u see this :) wait
06:30.04ijwyn(except for the silly Best Western ad, that is, heheh)
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06:30.46anisXsee it
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06:31.49ijwyner, no, I don't see any difference?
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06:32.57anisXijwyn: open your eyes..see on tha kcontrol , nothing on panels
06:32.58ijwynwhat exactly is bothering you on there?
06:33.03anisXno options etc etc
06:33.35nige_there you go
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06:33.51nige_s you will see I have xchat open but its not in my application bar
06:34.49ijwynI did notice that, but why does it matter, since your kicker is there anyway? and you should be able to edit it by just right-clicking on it, no?
06:35.02ijwynheck, I don't even have a 'desktop' icon in my K Control, LOL, just looked
06:35.34anisXnige_: u don't get me
06:35.38ijwynah, I have 'panels' under LookNFeel on my system
06:35.41a_thingAnyone here use FC5?
06:35.46ShockValuedoes audiocd:/ use cdparanoia libraries, or something different?   I'm interested in ripping accuracy on 'questionable' quality disks
06:36.02nige_anisX, pardon?
06:36.23nige_i am running kde on kubuntu box :)
06:36.27ijwyngah, you made a huge screenshot nige! lol
06:36.45nige_its just what I see when I work on my pc :P
06:36.57ijwynit's taking a long time to load
06:36.59nige_the curse of daul 17
06:37.00anisXnige_: oh nothing nige_ , maybe you don't understand me , i don't see any point why u gave me the screenshot
06:37.23a_thingnige_: holly crap that's a huge resolution
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06:37.45nige_anisX  its becasue it doesnt display what I have open correctly, monitor 1 is okay, monitor 2 isnt
06:37.49nige_a_thing, sorry :)
06:38.14anisXnige_: so you also have a problem with kicker or what?
06:38.14ijwynanisX: I think you misunderstood nige from the start, he never said he had the same problem as you, he was just describing his own issue which also happens to be panel-related
06:38.32nige_each background is for a different monitor
06:38.45a_thingAnyone here use FC5?
06:38.54nige_like X chat is open on monitor 2, but isns displayed in the application bar
06:39.00anisXijwyn: aha sorta
06:39.15anisXijwyn: and i thought nige_ want to help me :D
06:39.29nige_understand, lol sorry its just my own problem too :(
06:39.32ijwynand I think he thought the same about you ;-)
06:39.52ijwynah, the wonders of the internet, heheh
06:40.05nige_oh yes
06:40.40anisXim going to edit kickercc manually
06:41.02ijwynnige_: I suspect that, for some odd reason, your bar won't display more then four application tabs?
06:41.09chavonige_, that isn't working here either
06:41.21ijwynhave you tried launching another app and see if that one appears too, or does it also stay off the bar?
06:41.29a_thingnige_: try unchecking the multiple desktop/screen stuff, hitting apply, then redo it
06:41.31chavobut i have a panel on each screen so doesn't affect me
06:41.40chavodoesn't do anything
06:41.43nige_okay i will try that,
06:42.24nige_you might be right about the 4 applications, any idea why that is
06:42.32anisXdcop kicker kicker restart , i just edit add "Size" and transparent=true
06:42.58a_thingnige_: also try making your taskbar bigger
06:43.51nige_its now at 100%
06:43.56nige_still seems to be the same problem
06:43.58a_thingIIRC there's a setting in KControl somewhere that controls what happens on taskbar overflow
06:46.26ijwynnige_: nope, no idea why it would do that, mine just squeezes everything in... might be a default setting in your distro, I dunno
06:46.41nige_hmm okay
06:46.43nige_it just seems odd
06:46.50ijwynyeah, I agree
06:47.12anisXi assume its not kde fault..maybe distro faults
06:47.22ijwynalthough I figure there must be a way to change that setting, but I have no idea how
06:47.56chavonige_, looks like a bug in the taskbar
06:48.06ijwynmight be that too
06:48.13chavoyou can try adding another panel and putting it on the second screen
06:48.24chavothat's what I have here and it works great
06:48.44nige_yer I was about to try that
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06:50.13anisXseems like i need to edit kickercc and put SizePercentage / Size / and change Transparent=true
06:52.30GNU_Stylemy firefox does use a diff cursor, how to fix this?
06:52.36joyrhow do I manually save session (KDE3.5.1) ?
06:53.34chavojoyr, I believe you can do it with dcop
06:53.45nige_see now the second panel works fine with the 2nd monitor
06:53.55chavodcop ksmserver ksmserver saveCurrentSession
06:54.21joyrchavo: thanks =)
06:54.36chavoyou can laso do saveCurrentSessionAs
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06:56.32ShockValueanyway to add a "Send to:" command in Konq file manager mode? (like Send to /tmp or something, not email)
06:56.55nige_althought is i place the application on both monitors it works fine,
06:57.01nige_I wonder if its a xinerama bug
06:57.36chavonige_, looks like a kde taskbar bug to me
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06:58.30Shirakawasunahi.  Does anyone know if it's possible to minimize/close to the system tray with kontact?
06:58.36ShirakawasunaI can't find any documentation for it
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06:59.21nige_hmm okay
06:59.31nige_i might go see if i can log it as a bug
07:00.04chavoShirakawasuna, yes it's possible
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07:00.15aaron_i tried compiling kdebase-startkde on gentoo
07:00.22aaron_but it stops saying it can't find kde-config
07:00.29aaron_i tried asking on #gentoo about this, but no one wants to help >_>
07:00.36aaron_anyone know what i need to get this thing going?
07:00.56chavoShirakawasuna, it's in the kmail configuration, hold on
07:01.17mobtekaaron_: follow the kde install guide in the gentoo docs
07:01.36aaron_i'll try. i have to use links for now @_@
07:02.03Shirakawasunaaaron_: just doing "emerge kde" is much easier and happier than emerging everything separately
07:02.14Shirakawasunachavo: cool
07:02.23aaron_that's the thing, i don't want all of that extra stuff
07:02.30chavoShirakawasuna, go to kmail config, it's on the appearance tab
07:02.45chavoyou can also make akregator show an icon in the tray
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07:03.15Shirakawasunachavo: yes, but that's not a minimize/close to system tray option
07:03.26Shirakawasunachavo: I still have to have the Kontact window in the task bar
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07:03.33aaron_the kde install guide just tells me what i know already, to emerge kdebase-startkde
07:03.42chavojust hit the close button, it will stay running
07:04.07Shirakawasunaah, it did
07:04.13nige_its been bugged already :( have a look
07:04.16Shirakawasunalast time it didn't, so I thought it was broken :)
07:04.18Shirakawasunathanks chavo
07:04.59chavonige_, yeah I seem to remember it working in gnome
07:05.15islamguide_comhow come i got this weird bug that when i right click on the icon on konqueror, instead of bring up the right click menu, it goes back to the previous page
07:06.39mobtekaaron_: heheh yes do the split ebuilds because the monolithic ones will be gone before long
07:07.10aaron_i just need to get kde-config going
07:07.18aaron_i'm trying a recompile
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07:08.33aaron_i just don't want 5 different image editors when all i use is gimp >_
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07:13.20nige_anyways cheers for the help
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07:16.22Ze_Maaron_: u can build them but u can choose to not install them
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07:19.39aaron_what's the point in building something that i won't install?
07:19.47ShockValuehrm.. anyone know why copying files from audiocd:/  is so slow?  (like, 3 hours to copy 300 megs)
07:23.02aaron_well so far it seems to be doing alright...
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07:23.23aaron_it's been 20 minutes and it hasn't quit yte
07:23.31aaron_i think it quit after 15 minutes before
07:23.43aaron_i added qt to the useflag this time
07:24.26aaron_5 minutes...when 2:30 comes i'm going to bed, have work tomorrow early >_<
07:25.46aaron_gentoo makes me glad that i oc'd my system ^_^
07:26.40aaron_although it does make my amd put out more heat than congress <_<
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07:28.49aaron_i think it's good now :)
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07:36.29GNU_Stylehow to run superkaramba in KDE 3.5.1 they say its included in the release?
07:36.39GNU_Stylejust dont know how to start it
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08:07.27ShockValueanyone know how to add a "send to:" context menu for konq?
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08:43.42solsTiCehi. is there a simple way (in kcontrol ?) to change my default browser? to opera for example . just to test ;-) i like konqueror
08:45.51canllaithsolsTiCe: Kcontrol -> KDE Components -> Component chooser
08:47.47solsTiCecanllaith: :-D cool thnx
08:48.51solsTiCeoh nice so when i clikck a link in konversation it goes stragiht to opera ;-)
08:49.38canllaithbe warned though - even if you do want to use konqueror as a webbrowser now if you type a url into the address bar it will launch opera and pass it to opera.
08:49.42canllaithBit odd how that works
08:50.15oneforallKCD label isn't vry good. insert an image and you can't move or resize it . printed out way to big on my test page
08:50.25oneforallfonts you can't move them either
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08:50.38oneforalltext I mean
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08:50.55solsTiCecanllaith: weird !
08:51.50solsTiCecanllaith: no it works as expected
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08:52.20canllaiththat must have been changed recently
08:52.31canllaithin either 3.3 or 3.4 (can't quite remember) the behaviour was as I described
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08:57.46brucehoultcanllaith: fancy seeing you in here :-)
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08:58.35canllaith:P I own this joint, hombre ;)
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09:02.34oneforallI own nothing . the government owns everything. If they want it they tske it cause they own it
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09:04.45oneforallany other app like glabel to make cd labels . glable doesn't want to compile for me waiting for the fix
09:05.06oneforallKCD labels isn't very good .
09:05.39oneforalloo is way to big just to get a label app:)
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09:13.27carrambahello. I'm looking for anyone familiar with (KDE bugzilla). I have reported a bug and no mail has been sent to me (there was something about mail sent to ... excluding /my_email/). How can I know why it hasn't been sent?
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09:23.08emc3is there a polish channel of kde ?
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09:31.17stonedHi, I installed gnome and kde in the system, but now the menu's are screwed up, they contain a two copies of each program shortcut.  How can I fix this?
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09:54.32ganymedi mam using kubuntu with kde 3.5.1. i need some help with kvpnc... i can connect with vpnc to a cisco network, but i cannot do so with kvpnc. it says i should enter my passwd, but i do not get a prompt. the passwd is entered in the conf. after some time the client aborts. any ideas?
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09:56.05[Bart]ganymed : You need to check with the kvnpc mailinglist or so.
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10:05.19zi99yanyone have a clue how I can change the window behaviour when I use the scroll wheel on a background window?
10:05.31benJImanzi99y: in what way?
10:05.32zi99yI want it not to steal focus, like the way gnome does it
10:06.12benJImandon't think you can do that
10:06.18zi99yso I can be working on the top-level window, and use the scroll wheel on a window behind, but maintain focus on the top window
10:06.37benJImanit doesn't bring it to front, only focuses it
10:06.43zi99yyeah thats right
10:07.06benJImanyou're effectively clicking in the window, and policy is click to focus
10:07.09zi99ybut I got used to the gnome way, so I don't have to click or scroll on the top window again to resume typeing
10:07.20ganymed_is there any relation between kwallet and kvpnc
10:07.32zi99yhmm, no but it's different from a click because it doesn't move to the front
10:08.16zi99yganymed_: are you trying to store passwords for kvpnc?
10:08.25benJImanright click does't bring to front either
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10:08.47zi99ybenJIman: oh yeah, I'd not noticed that
10:09.03benJImanzi99y: you could always use focus follows mouse
10:10.58benJImanbut other than that don't think you can do anything about it
10:10.58zi99yyeah I've tried that and I'm not too keen
10:10.58zi99ybut thanks, I really appreciate your input
10:10.59zi99yI'm a recent kde convert!
10:11.00ganymed_zi00y: kvpnc asks me for a passwd though i have entered in in the conf dialogue. vpnc works. so i thought it might be a problem with the kde password management...
10:11.00benJImanpersonally I like kde's way, I often for example start scrolling a backgroun web page and then decide I want to use findasyou type or something
10:11.16benJImanganymed_: I don't think kvpnc uses the wallet
10:11.39zi99yganymed_: sorry I don't use kvpnc so I'm not sure#
10:12.01zi99ybenJIman: I'm sure I'll get used to it
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10:13.22|lostbyte|WHere is the kde config file. for kdm ?
10:13.31benJImandepends on your distro
10:13.33|lostbyte|i wanted to add -nolisten tcp to it.
10:13.37|lostbyte|i am using mandriva.
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10:13.46benJImanon suse it's /etc/opt/kde3/share/config/kdm/kdmrc
10:13.58benJIman|lostbyte|: might be the Xservers file you need to change for that
10:14.03|lostbyte|so i searched alot..
10:14.04zi99yon kubuntu it's /etc/kde3/kdm/...
10:14.06benJImanand presumably -nolisten tcp will be the default
10:14.13|lostbyte|/etc/opt/kde3/share/config/kdm/kdmrc : not found.
10:14.32benJImanon mandriva i'd guess /etc/share/config/kdm/kdmrc
10:14.36|lostbyte|/etc/kde3/kdm/ : not found.
10:14.58qupadaslocate/rlocate is your friend
10:15.01zi99ycan you do locate
10:15.03|lostbyte|/etc/share/config/kdm/kdmrc : not found.
10:15.14ganymed_os why is it asking me for a password in the debugging console?
10:15.18|lostbyte|found : /etc/kde/kdm/kdmrc
10:15.23|lostbyte|but the file has no exec ?
10:15.40zi99yqupada: whats the diff between locate and slocate ?
10:15.41benJImanno exec?
10:15.43|lostbyte|so where do i add this -nolisten tcp ?
10:15.58benJIman|lostbyte|: it will allmost certainly be there by default, unless your distro is really bad
10:16.19|lostbyte|benJIman: I searched and found something like Session=/usr/share/config/kdm/Xsession
10:16.26|lostbyte|should i go there ?
10:16.37benJIman|lostbyte|: search for ServerArgsLocal in that file to edit the arguments
10:16.39qupadazi99y: rlocate uses a kernel module and some fancy stuff to do real-time updates
10:16.44benJImanas I said nolisten tcp will be there almost certainly
10:17.10|lostbyte|benJIman: which file ? /etc/kde/kdm/kdmrc
10:17.26qupadazi99y: which means two things, your hard drive doesn't get chewed for 20 minutes once a day to update the database, and files you create are listed immediately
10:17.27zi99yqupada: I don't seem to have rlocate in my bash shell,
10:17.30|lostbyte|benJIman: Ant ! by default i see port 6000 open.
10:17.45benJIman|lostbyte|: isn't there a firewall on by default?
10:17.54|lostbyte|benJIman: nope !
10:18.10|lostbyte|benJIman: hee :)
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10:18.34|lostbyte|benJIman: you want me to find ServerArgsLocal in /etc/kde/kdm/kdmrc ?
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10:18.54|lostbyte|benJIman: ok ! i see ServerArgsLocal=-deferglyphs 16
10:18.56benJIman|lostbyte|: on suse there's also an Xservers file in the same directory you might need to edit
10:19.07benJIman|lostbyte|: add -nolisten tcp to that then
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10:19.32|lostbyte|benJIman: ok ! so thats it.
10:19.46benJIman|lostbyte|: check for the Xservers file too
10:19.53|lostbyte|benJIman: i see it !
10:20.01|lostbyte|benJIman: What should u do there ?
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10:20.03benJImando the same in there then
10:21.09|lostbyte|benJIman: more /etc/kde/kdm/Xsession | grep ServerArgsLocal       returns nothing :(
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10:21.25benJIman|lostbyte|: no, it has the whole command, open the file
10:21.34benJIman|lostbyte|: X servers, not Xsession
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10:22.15benJImanlcars:/etc/opt/kde3/share/config/kdm # grep nolisten ./Xservers          \\\           :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp -br vt7
10:22.30|lostbyte|benJIman: No Xserver,xserver or x server in there.
10:22.42benJImanprobably ok then, try it and see
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10:22.56|lostbyte|benJIman: Thanks ! will try..
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10:34.17elvstonewill i be able to get java support in konqueror on an amd64 system? i'm waiting for my new computer to arrive.
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10:40.06elvstonei know that the JRE 1.5 for amd64 from Sun does not install a mozilla plugin, is that the same plugin that konqueror would use?
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10:42.49elvstoneah just found - "HOWTO: Sun Java 1.5 and Flash in 64-bit Konqueror browser! (No chroot required)".. nevermind.
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10:52.14ganymed_does anybody know why kvpnc asks for a user password on the debug console, though the password is entered in the conf dialogue?
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10:56.27emc3how can I view running processes in kde ? (sth like process manager in windows)
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10:57.28xanax`emc3 : try pressing Ctrl+Esc
10:57.49ganymed_does nobody know anything about kvpnc?
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11:07.49xroberxfek: moin
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11:10.11nacerfor write QT application its best to learn or c++ ?
11:10.17nacerc or c++
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11:11.02xroberxnacer: QT is coded in C++
11:11.09PhilRodnacer: or you can use PyQt or the ruby bindings
11:11.19PhilRodI think the ruby bindings are called korundum
11:11.38xroberxyup, PyQt + QTdesigner makes QT programming very easy
11:11.57nacermost of QT application use what language ?
11:11.58A10ni hear python is very popular these days
11:12.13A10ngooogle uses python internally
11:12.19nacerlol :)
11:12.26xroberxand the NASA
11:12.44nacerbruce willis use python too
11:12.52nacerpython is goo eat python :)
11:13.04A10nso isn't python like perl and php
11:13.10A10nits compiled when its run
11:13.14xroberxpython like perl ? lol
11:13.34A10nwell not syntax wise
11:13.40xroberxwell, you are lucky language wars are not allowed in here :P
11:13.41A10ni mean its an interpreted language
11:13.53A10ni honestly can't stand perl syntax
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11:14.03nacerhum wait
11:14.24A10nI keep on having ppl in interviews ask me if i ever used perl
11:14.25nacerwhat most QT application use ?
11:14.29A10ni mean if i ever used python
11:14.43A10nnacer, i guess c++,c, or python
11:15.16nacerthey is a good website for QT developer share information ?
11:15.26A10ni don't know one
11:15.37A10nthe manual for QT is very good last time i used it
11:15.43mobtekqt forum
11:16.02nacerbefore learn QT i need to learn c++ or python
11:16.11A10nthat would help
11:16.21nacertks mobtek
11:16.35xroberxnacer: c++ has a high learning curve
11:16.57nacercurve ??
11:17.04naceri dont understand the word
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11:17.26xroberxnacer: where are you from ?
11:17.30markeynacer: you can use Ruby. KDE has excellent Ruby bindings
11:17.31A10nit means its hard to learn
11:17.36markeythey're called Korundum
11:17.44nacerA10n: ok
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11:17.44A10nnacer, shouldn't you be out rioting?
11:17.53nacerpython is best for learn quickly ?
11:17.55xanax`nacer : there's #kde-fr if you want :)
11:17.58_StarScreammarkey: java bindings ?
11:18.07cenuijthey are rioting in #kde-fr?
11:18.07nacerxanax`: ok :)
11:18.22_StarScreammarkey: nah i was asking if they existed :)
11:18.28xroberxnacer: it seems curve in french is courbe
11:18.35markeyI don't know
11:19.31nacerxroberx: traduction is false
11:19.36markeyruby is of course easy to learn and perfect for kde, cause it's fully object oriented
11:19.38nacerits not male ant sense :)
11:20.09nacerany sense
11:20.15xroberxuse whatever lang you feel comfortable with
11:20.27xroberxbut python is easier for beginners than ruby
11:20.28naceri think python will ne fine
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11:21.12markeybad choice
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11:23.41karstenTwo words:  emacs keybindings.  Possible?
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11:25.07xroberxwell, it seems with the emacs operating system everyting is possible :P
11:25.21PhilRodkarsten: three words. Be more specific
11:26.29karstenPhilRod: Sure:  I'd like emacs keybindings in KDE apps, most specifically konqueror.  C-a, C-e, C-, and C-n would be the biggies:  start and end of line, nex t and prior lines.
11:26.32karstenKill would alsob be good (C-k).
11:26.35PhilRodYou can have emacs-style shortcuts for actions (eg, you could set C-x C-c to quit application) but AFAIK you can't have emacs-style keybindings in text edit boxes (ie, C-a for beginning of line, etc)
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11:27.11karstenPhilRod: Google and KDE FAQ don't show much.  Some work back in 2001 for a key management app of some sort.
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11:34.53mobteknacer: there is also
11:35.51A10nnacer, ...
11:36.02A10nnacer,  just start using it and you wil learn as you go
11:36.14A10nnacer,  can't learn it unless you get down and dirty with it
11:36.23A10nso get it installed
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11:36.28A10nfollow some of the tutorials
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11:39.27trumpethello, is there keyboard shortcut to show menu?
11:39.53benJImanalt-f1 by default mouse died ;)
11:39.57karstenPhilRod: Specific enough for you?
11:40.13PhilRodkarsten: yes. As I said, I don't know of a way to do it
11:40.22karstenPhilRod: OK, thanks.
11:40.49karstenPhilRod: Sorry, really laggy connection here, I missed that.
11:41.33PhilRodoh wait, control center -> regioanl & accessibility -> keyoard shortcuts -> application shortcuts
11:41.42PhilRodlooks like you can change some of those there
11:43.00karstenPhilRod: Evaluating KDE after a long-ass time on WMaker.  I've got most of my keybindings in already.
11:44.55PhilRodkarsten: have a go, tell me how you get on. I'd be tempted to have emacs keybindings in  my KDE apps, just so I'm using one set of bindings everywhere
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11:46.27PhilRodMEGA-COP: are you planning on trolling or otherwise making a nuisance of yourself? I have to go out, and so if you are, please tell me now, and we can get the banning out of the way
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11:47.17PhilRodI'll take that as a 'yes'
11:47.26*** mode/#kde [+o PhilRod] by ChanServ
11:47.34thordonCan anyone recommend a general purpose media player, dvd/video/music etc?
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11:47.40benJImanthordon: kaffeine
11:47.40*** mode/#kde [+b MEGA-COP!*@*] by PhilRod
11:47.43karstenPhilRod: WTF is "XF86Refresh", application shortcuts, reload.
11:47.49karstenthordon: xmms.
11:48.03karstenthordon: ... erm.  xine for video.
11:48.19karstenbenJIman: I thought kaffeine was a Java thing.
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11:48.37benJImanthordon: amarok / juk are better for music though, no kaffeine is a media player for kde which can use xine as backend
11:49.06thordondo I have to install xine for kaffeine to work?
11:49.20benJImankaffeine will have libxine as a dependency
11:49.29xroberxdoes anyone know if the problem of residual artifacts on top of windows when you play some video is a problem of X or QT ?
11:49.39xroberxmaybe it's the Xvideo extension ?
11:49.46benJImanprobably your X graphics driver xroberx
11:50.02xroberxmmm, i see
11:50.11xroberxi should upgrade to X11R7 then
11:50.42karstenPhilOut: ... and there is an existing "Unix" scheme.
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11:52.58xroberxkaffeine crashed badly on my box
11:53.15xroberxkmplayer seems to be much more stable
11:53.35xroberxand it can use xine to play dvds too
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12:12.55adamtso, where can normal people find the 3.5.2 tarballs?
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12:14.12PhilOutnowhere, cos it's not out yet
12:16.11adamtPhilOut: i know it's only released to packagers.
12:16.30adamtwhich suck, i want them too.
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12:19.40oneforallyeah I make my packages
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12:21.03adamtoneforall: yeah, i'm gonna start my own distro, fake of course,, just to get the tarballs before others :)
12:21.25karstenHrm...  any way to configure the text editor within gKonqueror?
12:21.25karsten/win 4
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12:32.18_bogoMIPS_good morning
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12:37.21trumpetwhat name has application (name of command) to start GUI application for setting network?
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13:12.41fredEanyone else have the problem where Konqueror will reject cookies from site if the default policy is set to "reject", yet the site policy for the particular domain is set to "accept"? then setting default to "ask" will accept cookies from that domain?
13:13.21fredEwhich of course makes no sense whatsoever
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13:50.04emc3Is there an option in KDE 3.5/newer to set transparency effect for each taskbar on each virtual pulpit ?
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14:34.18pshaggywhat do you guys use to send video to an ipod?  Amarok/gtkpod don't seem to like .avi ....
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14:37.34dirk_Iam search fro a video chat application for Linux to chat per video to windows and Mac users
14:39.10_bogoMIPS_skype for voice
14:39.14benJImanor jabber
14:39.45_bogoMIPS_well heck
14:39.59_bogoMIPS_guuess he was in a hurry
14:40.41_bogoMIPS_i didnt know jabber had voice
14:40.59_bogoMIPS_does it?
14:41.07benJImanwith jingle google talk thing
14:41.12benJImankopete supports it in 0.12
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15:23.02Alfonssb knows the reason for this error message: KCrash: Application 'akregator' crashing...
15:23.03Alfons*** glibc detected *** free(): invalid next size (fast): 0x08348b20 ***
15:23.03AlfonsUnable to start Dr. Konqi
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15:23.52Alfonsroot can start programm, user see the message
15:25.06PhilOutsounds like it could be a bad config. Try renaming ~/.kde/share/config/akregatorrc to akregatorrc.bak, restart KDE and try again
15:26.43Alfonsthere is no alregatorrc
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15:27.35PhilOutdo you have any files in ~/.kde named "akregator*"? (ie, does "find ~/.kde -name 'akregator*'" produce any output?)
15:27.48Alfonsbut it was a problem with /home/pil/.kde/share/apps/akregator
15:28.03Alfonsi renamed and afterwards akregator is running
15:29.10AlfonsPhilOut i try to find wich file was corrupt
15:29.27PhilOutgood idea
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15:39.25cromois there any tool that would export kde color scheme into wine color scheme?
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15:41.29qwekafternoon, i have a screen session on another server with irssi (irc client). This does a terminal beep on events but it looks like Konsole doesnt receive (or responds to) them. Any suggestions?
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15:44.02thiagoqwek: screen usually turns audible bell off
15:44.19thiagomake sure you've turned the bell back on
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15:48.28qwekthiago: i turned off vbell..  also putty always reacts to bell events
15:49.28qwekcan i manual can do a bell in a shell
15:49.44thiagokonsole also has a setting to turn bells on, off, visually or audible
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15:51.05qwekthat was it :)
15:51.15qwekstupid that i never saw that
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15:56.33cromoit would be nice if there was another "visual bell" option that would for example just change tab's color
16:00.59*** join/#kde main123 (
16:03.04qwekis it possible to have the sort menu in the context menu in konq
16:03.31thiagoqwek: yes, but you have to hack the source code to do that.
16:03.33cromois it possible to set konsole to not notify about the visual bell event in case the konsole window in which the event happend is currently active?
16:05.12qwekcromo: there are different notifications for active and not active tabs.. or do you mean focus
16:05.26qwekthiago: ok tnx, ill see what if i can find a patch
16:05.29cromoactually I meant focus
16:05.47cromoi.e. I am using yakuake that uses konsole
16:06.02cromoso it doesn't use konsole itself, but kio afik
16:06.15cromothus, it doesn't use konsole tab's, but its own
16:07.01Sho_(Yakuake uses the konsole kpart and currently does not attempt to leverage bell data for its tab bar)
16:08.33*** join/#kde main123 (
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16:09.22cromomy main concern is that I'd like to see an option to not notify in case the bell occured in the window that is currently focused
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16:11.02Sho_cromo: That will be the default behaviour if I ever do implement bell support in the tab bar
16:11.04cromoi.e. I am using irssi as my irc client, it bells each time someone use my nickname and is very usuable when my irssi konsole is out of the focus, but when it is focused, it's just too annoing
16:13.46marois there a utility to read iso images?
16:16.38*** join/#kde Faizi (n=faizi@
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16:17.21benJImanmaro: you can mount them
16:17.29benJImanmaro: mount -o loop ./file.iso /mnt
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16:25.11sam^hi, do you know a tool which is useful for basic vector calculation and visualization?
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16:26.13ExitMenuok I sure this is a dumb question but does kde have an equivlent to rundll32.exe ?
16:26.33HamishTPBsam^: that is a bit over my head but I can point you to a list of sci-tech apps for my distro
16:26.44HamishTPBsam^: might give a clue?
16:26.52sam^HamishTPB: which distribution do you use?
16:26.57HamishTPBsam^: Gentoo
16:27.07sam^okay, that may help me a bit
16:27.20HamishTPBsam^: gimme a sec and I will get a link to a filtered list
16:27.58*** join/#kde Aleichem (
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16:28.02sam^thank you
16:28.29HamishTPBsam^: but if you click the "categories" link on the right you can search more
16:28.30HamishTPBsam^: no problem - I hope it helps
16:28.47leonardoalguien en español
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16:30.14sam^well, it didn't help ... I guess, I'll stick with pen&paper
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16:33.27HamishTPBsam^: oh - nothing in other categories? There are a lot of scientific apps
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16:34.27cromois it possible to edit my own bugs that I have reported on
16:35.09PhilOutdepends on your permissions
16:35.21PhilOutadd a comment to say what you'd like changed if you don't have enough permissions
16:35.22puslingediting posts is evil. just add a comment
16:37.53cromook thx
16:38.20*** mode/#kde [-b *!*@*] by PhilOut
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16:40.21IIVQHello... Is it possible to assign individual icons to different USB devices in kde OR to somehow read the windows autorun.inf for the associated icon?
16:40.47sam^HamishTPB: haven't studied the other categories, learning with this archaic tools takes way less time than searching for an application ;o)
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16:41.02PhilOutcromo: and if you tell me what bug it is, I can make any changes that are appropriate
16:41.15HamishTPBsam^: lol
16:41.17HamishTPBsam^: OK
16:41.58ico2_is there a way to make the user confirm a shutdown an extra time with a custom message like: "you know i will have to kill you if you shut down", but only if another user is logged on a the time?
16:42.42ico2_tired of locking my screen, starting another session and the user of that session shutting down, they need to be able to, but i want to make sure they are duly warned
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16:48.00DeadS0ulthere's write support for ntfs now?
16:48.41benJImannot if you value your data
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16:49.08PinarafbenJIman: there is, using FUSE
16:49.35benJImanPinaraf: what does it use?
16:49.47Pinarafit's a part of the ntfs-linux project : ntfsmount
16:50.20Pinarafit's a FUSE "driver" for NTFS partitions. Off course it's a bit slower than the usual in-kernel driver, but it supports write
16:50.41DeadS0ulmy data isn't on an ntfs partition =p
16:51.52visik7Pinaraf: safe write ?
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16:52.15Pinarafvisik7: they say it's safe
16:52.26Pinaraf(I don't have any windows here)
16:52.31visik7me too
16:52.39visik7at least not linux in dual boot
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16:54.35benJImanPinaraf: the kernel driver supports write, it's just not very reliable
16:54.39benJImanare you sure the FUSE one is better?
16:54.46HairulfrDoes anyone have problems with in Konq? It doesn't play the vids, the audio is fine though. Works in FF
16:54.56benJImanHairulfr: works for me
16:55.01Pinarafyes it's better, and the FUSE one was available before write in kernel...
16:55.09HairulfrbenJIman|tov: Hmm... Must be m Konq then
16:55.11benJImanHairulfr: try resizing the window
16:55.30desmond1972I'm new to using Linux and would like to learn the programming languages. Iwas told that perl is a good start. What is the name of a book or a site which would be a good starting point?
16:56.22HairulfrbenJIman|tov: that did the trick... I wondered why it should have stopped working
16:56.23desmond1972My apologies for the redundancy.
16:56.32IIVQHello... Is it possible to assign individual icons to different USB devices in kde OR to somehow read the windows autorun.inf for the associated icon?
16:56.33*** join/#kde IceD^^ (n=iced@
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16:58.31HamishTPBdesm... Oh - he left already
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16:58.34HamishTPBpatient fellow
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17:03.37HairulfrI tried running KDE on XGl here the other day, It works, but fonts, buttons and the like are pretty screwed
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17:07.53benJImanHairulfr: works fine here
17:08.03benJImanmight be your graphics drivers possibly
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17:17.31fear_linux_godcan anyone help me gettign sound too work in kde, it works in gnome
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17:19.55adamtfear_linux_god: ps aux|grep artsd
17:20.00adamtdoes arts run?
17:20.26fear_linux_godi let u know once I get kde back on I was updating in gnome
17:20.43*** join/#kde pagovor (
17:20.47pagovorhello folks
17:20.48fear_linux_godnow my sound working???
17:20.58pagovordoes someone know how I can measure the page loading time in konqueror?
17:22.03fear_linux_goddont sue konqueror :P slow on my pc
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17:23.50adamtfear_linux_god: read the topic, please.
17:24.12adamtif konq is slow on your pc, it's a problem with your pc/setup.
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17:25.49pagovorno idea how I can measure the time a page needs to be loaded?
17:25.54benJImanpagovor: a stop watch?
17:26.06benJImanyou can use javascript timer or something but they're rather unreliable
17:26.35pagovorthey are unreliable, and the stop watch is a joke I suppose1
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17:34.56two-faceAnyone using dekorator?
17:35.25HamishTPBtwo-face: I installed it but I haven't got around to playing with it yet :S
17:35.45two-faceI installed themes
17:36.02two-facebut window corners are not transparent
17:36.11two-faceas they should be
17:36.33two-facethey appear in a pink/red color
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17:39.38HamishTPBtwo-face: like I say I haven't really played with it much yet
17:39.59HamishTPBtwo-face: just didn't want to leave you hanging :)
17:41.51two-faceHamishTPB: sure, thks, but I keep explaining just in case some other wake up :)
17:42.28HamishTPBtwo-face: yeah - I am interested in seeing what is said as well :)
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18:04.40two-faceI'm having trouble with
18:04.46two-faceas well
18:05.03two-faceI can't find a way to avoid holes in sound
18:05.19two-faceeven by increasing the buffer size
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18:21.57bobyfixerstupid people
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18:27.51bluesceadahow can i stop flash plugins from making sound in konqueror??
18:28.06bluesceada(and still having my music make sound ;) )
18:28.15bluesceadabobyfixer: o.O
18:28.19bluesceadaanyone alive
18:28.25DeadS0uldisable sound output through arts
18:28.27two-facedon't know
18:28.32two-faceI can't play flash here
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18:28.54bluesceadaDeadS0ul: i have it through alsa..
18:28.58bluesceadai dont use arts
18:29.02bluesceadaso it is disabled..
18:29.47DeadS0ulhow'd you make it use alsa?
18:30.11thiagobluesceada: then flash is doing it by itself
18:30.15thiagoconvince flash to not play sounds
18:30.20thiagoindependently of Konqueror
18:30.23DeadS0ulnaw flahs outputs the sond somewhere or the other
18:30.26bluesceadaDeadS0ul: it just uses standard?
18:30.32bluesceadathiago: ah ..
18:30.44bluesceadaflash sucks .. you just need it in some obscure cases :/
18:31.34bobyfixerany one compiled mechcommander 2 under linux ?!!!!
18:32.43DeadS0ulhmm i forgot how flash is set up in linux, apt did everything for mre
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18:35.58Z10N0101Hi guys! Is there some applications to edit soundS?
18:36.07Z10N0101like sound Forge
18:36.26*** join/#kde annma (n=annma@kde/developer/annma)
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18:36.38Z10N0101hi Benix
18:36.58benJImanZ10N0101: there's audacity, it's not a kde app though, but quite good
18:38.00Z10N0101Fine!!! Thanks a lot benJIman  :D
18:39.18Z10N0101benJIman, do you know how to make a VNC connection to my laptop but, to have control of the display :0.0
18:39.29BenixHow can I change the font(color) of the windowbar?
18:40.39Z10N0101I have no Idea man, sorry
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18:41.03annmaBenix: font in KControl
18:41.54annmacolor also I think, in style
18:42.15Z10N0101Guys, Is there a way to unmerge Juk, with out unmerging all the kdemultimedia package ?
18:42.24Benixannma: thanks, but dont see a way to change the color from black to white
18:42.43annmathe font color you mean, Benix
18:42.52annmai thought the border color
18:43.03*** join/#kde gem|djy (n=gemidjy@
18:43.10annmaZ10N0101: ask gentoo for distro specific
18:43.11BenixMy kicker wallpaper is very dark so white would look much better
18:43.39Sho_Z10N0101: When you use the split ebuilds (i.e. kdemultimedia-meta), yes
18:44.07Z10N0101so, you mean that I have to ask in gentoo chann. ?
18:44.10*** part/#kde Hairulfr (n=Hairulfr@
18:44.59annmaZ10N0101: yes
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18:45.38Z10N0101Thanks :D
18:45.49Sho_Z10N0101: Gentoo offers two sets of KDE ebuilds: the monolithic ebuilds that correspond to the modules puts out and which will not allow you to merge/unmerge specific applications, and the split ebuilds, which will allow you to do just that
18:46.24Z10N0101Ouuch! Thant means I can not unmerge single packages
18:46.28Sho_Z10N0101: If you had emerged kde-meta instead of kde or kdemultimedia-meta instead of kdemultimedia, you could do "unmerge juk"
18:47.12Sho_Z10N0101: The *-meta packages just pulling in all the seperate packages from the split ebuilds, whereas the non-meta packages are just the modules as they come from
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18:49.24Z10N0101Thanks a lot Sho_ , I can not unmerge :(
18:50.11Sho_Z10N0101: KDE 3.5.2 will be released shortly which will provide you with a good opportunity to replace the monolithic with the split ebuilds if you desire
18:51.11Z10N0101When is this update gonna come up
18:51.54Sho_Z10N0101: It will likely be released some time next week; how long Gentoo will need to mark it as stable I do not know
18:52.13*** join/#kde gem|djy (n=gemidjy@
18:52.28Z10N0101But I can Emerge it unmaking the packages right ?
18:52.57Sho_Z10N0101: I didn't understand that, sorry
18:53.42Z10N0101As you know, Gentoo works with a Tool named portage.
18:54.27Sho_Z10N0101: Yes
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18:55.06annmayou knew, Sho_ ?
18:55.22Sho_annma: Vaguely, I'm only using it for about three years
18:55.24Z10N0101That tool, has a file where all the packages Gentoo has available to download but are Hard Masked (This means:Unstable), You can delete the # of the file and that's it
18:55.36StevenRhey annma !! how goes it?
18:55.48annmagoes well!!!
18:56.05Sho_Z10N0101: When KDE 3.5.2 is released the corresponding ebuilds will be masked by the ~arch keyword, i.e. ~x86. And yes, you can certainly unmask and install them, which is what I will do.
18:56.57Sho_Z10N0101: Basically, you want to be able to install/uninstall seperate applications; the split ebuilds will allow you to do that. You currently have the monolithic ebuilds installed which you need to remove in order to replace them with the splits. KDE 3.5.2 is a good opportunity for that since you need to recompile KDE on that occasion anyway.
18:57.29Sho_Z10N0101: and specifically offer additional information on the KDE split ebuilds in Gentoo Portage
18:57.39StevenRannma: im good, on proper holiday, for 1st time in a year...nearly finished my degree
18:57.48annma:) cool
18:58.07Sho_oops, -z
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18:58.57Sho_annma: just recalling the mistakingly typed 'z' ;)
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19:00.34Z10N0101Hey, have you read about the kde 3.5.2? what does especial has
19:01.08Sho_Z10N0101: A preliminary changelog is available at
19:01.23Z10N0101thanks D
19:01.31Z10N0101Where you from Sho_  _
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19:01.38Sho_Z10N0101: Germany
19:02.10Z10N0101Wow! How does life's there ?
19:02.21benJImanhmm 114938 might speed up kopete too
19:02.43Sho_Z10N0101: Getting better ... the winter seems to slowly fade away finally ;)
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19:03.04Z10N0101:D Im glad of it
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19:10.39BenixSho_: yes today is the hottest day of the year 2006 in Germany ;)
19:10.59Sho_Benix: I see you're an optimist ... ;)
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19:11.25BenixSho_: Hehe. No you missunderstood. Till now it is the hottest day of 2006 ^^
19:11.39Sho_Benix: ah ;)
19:12.19BenixSho_: I bet we will have hot summer, a short winter and a great kde 4.0 alpha release *g
19:12.43Sho_Benix: I wouldn't be overly sure about the latter (in fact I'm not) ;)
19:14.33cenuijit will be there!
19:15.58Sho_cenuij: Don't set yourself up for disappointment :-P
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19:23.23djk_when will kde4 be done?
19:23.39bluesceadadjk_: next year afaik
19:24.26djk_bluesceada: wasn't it supposed to be sometime this summer?
19:24.35Z10N0101I have problems emerging audacity
19:24.59HamishTPBdjk_: you might see some early alpha/beta stuff this year but it is a long way from a stable release
19:25.22Z10N0101!!! wxGTK must be re-emerged without unicode suport
19:25.31HamishTPBdjk_: I think there are some dev things on the go though - best to ask in #kde-devel if you are a dev sort
19:25.43Sho_Z10N0101: That's really one for #gentoo
19:26.09Z10N0101haha, a'right
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19:27.51HamishTPBdjk_: no probs - I hang around in #kde-devel but most of it is over my head as I am very new :)
19:28.02Shirakawasunahi!  I get this message when I open kaudiocreator:
19:28.19DhraakellianIs there a way to have multiple saved sessions and choose which one to load when KDE starts up?
19:28.22ShirakawasunaI've put my user in the "cdrom" group and it still doesn't work - mounting works fine
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19:29.34Dhraakellianfor instance, at home, I want xchat, Kopete, konqueror, gkrellm, and kpager to start automatically, but when I use nx to log in remotely, I only want to load gkrellm and kpager at startup.
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19:30.45pinotreehello =)
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19:31.49Shirakawasunapinotree: hi
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19:43.21Jincan anybody point me to a good white on black theme for KDE 3.4?
19:43.45knoppixHow can i install knoppix into my hdd ?
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19:45.01idPhow can I add an application to the start menu ?
19:45.29pinotreeidP: right click on the kmenu icon -> edit
19:45.30idPwhat is the utility that does this , or what the file i should edit and where is it ?
19:45.46simmerzhas anyone got mountiso working?
19:45.46pinotreeand the utility is called kmenuedit
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19:46.58idPi found it
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19:48.32knoppixHow can i install knoppix into my hdd ? knoppix-installer?
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19:51.45PhilOutknoppix: ask in #knoppix
19:52.35knoppixPhilOut:  thanks
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19:57.45xenaliseanyone about?
19:58.20kirunyeah, one or two or 254 :)
19:58.31xenalisehaha... I meant alive :P
19:59.05xenalisegot an annoying problem with KDE :|
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20:00.40kirunwell, sharing is good :)
20:00.58xenalisewell, I've just installed openSUSE SLICK, to test it
20:01.08xenaliserun YaST Online Update
20:01.31xenaliseand since then, everytime I login, kicker crashes
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20:02.46idPhow can I stop the auto sorting of icons at startup of kde, it makes my manuall sorting gets messed up
20:03.35benJImanright click -> icons -> lock in place
20:03.51PhilRodxenalise: try renaming ~/.kde/share/config/kickerrc
20:04.01xenaliseoki :D
20:04.01PhilRodrestart KDE and see if it still crashes
20:04.11*** mode/#kde [-o PhilRod] by PhilRod
20:04.14xenaliseI'll give that a try now, thanks :)
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20:05.10idPi dont have this option lock in place
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20:07.28idPany other way to maintain my sorting of desktop icons ?
20:07.29mainis there an utility that would let me graphically mount .iso images?
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20:08.43Jinmain, why not just mount them using mount in the console?
20:09.01maintoo much typing
20:09.15mainid like to right-click and select from a service menu to mount it automatically
20:09.26maini think thats much faster and more convenient
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20:10.51PhilRodmain: there's a servicemenus tutorial:
20:10.55aptmethinks servicemenus is
20:11.06PhilRodyou could probably work something out
20:11.16mainbut id need to make automatic suid somehow
20:11.23mainso that a regular user (me) can run mount
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20:15.53PhilRodmain: sudo?
20:16.09mainwell, only root can mount, no?
20:16.23mainyes, i meant sudo ;)
20:16.23PhilRodor just use the servicemenu to call a script that's suid root
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20:16.31PhilRodwell, depends on exactly your settings
20:16.54PhilRodyou can have certain mount points that are allowed to be used by users
20:17.14PhilRodtake a look at klik (, I think); it does some trick along those lines
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20:19.00PhilRodhi |cleric|
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20:21.11|cleric|i have a problem with the composite extension and kde. xcompmgr and transset etc. work without a problem, but kde just tells me "It seems that alpha channel support is not available."
20:22.02benJImanare you using kompmgr?
20:22.23|cleric|benJIman: do i have to config that in any special way?
20:22.28*** part/#kde adpag (
20:22.32|cleric|i have installed it, of course
20:22.42|cleric|(after it did not work)
20:23.09benJImanyou can configure it with the right click window decoration -> configure -> translucency
20:23.26|cleric|benJIman: then i get the error msg
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20:26.29Blissexbah! for whatever reason it is happening again that when I print from Konqueror most stuff is garbled, and I can't imagine anything I have done that has caused that :-) The curious thing is that some stuff comes out right. Example
20:26.45Blissexso I would like suggestions on where to look...
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20:28.57idPback again
20:29.10idPi couldnt find a help on lde autosorting :(
20:29.28idPanyone has an idea how to stop the kde autosorting of desktop icons ?
20:30.00benJImanidP: right click -> icons -> lock in place
20:30.09idPi dont have this option
20:30.20benJImanit's new in kde 3.5, perhaps you're using an older version
20:30.47Billthe4thidP: what do you mean by autosorting?
20:30.50Sho_(even in earlier versions I never had auto-sorting)
20:30.54idPyes 3.4.3
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20:31.25Sho_idP: I think you can toggle off the sorting by selecting what it is currently sorted by again in the context menu
20:31.28idPthe kde at startup changes the way I organize my icons
20:31.37Billthe4thif you look in control centre -> desktop -> behaviour -> File Icons
20:31.40benJImankde always jumbles them up
20:31.49benJImanit's better with the lock icons thing though
20:32.00Billthe4ththere is an "Automatically line up icons" option... is that what you mean?
20:32.13Sho_Billthe4th: He means what he says
20:32.28Sho_Billthe4th: Icons -> Sort icons in the context menu
20:32.50idPI dont know, i know that it automaticaly lines the icons to its criteria
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20:33.04idPi wana keep my the icons locked in space,
20:33.28idPnow i know it is avaible as an option in kde 3.5, but what to do with 3.4
20:33.32Sho_idP: Did you try '<Sho_> idP: I think you can toggle off the sorting by selecting what it is currently sorted by again in the context menu'?
20:34.05Q-collectiveidP: why not upgrade? =)
20:34.27*** join/#kde aep (
20:34.31idPwow upgrade for this tiny thing :)
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20:34.47idPbesides i like what i have, i dont wana mess thigs up
20:34.49Sho_idP: You don't need to upgrade for that
20:35.42benJImanthey don't even always stay in place in kde 3.5 with the lock
20:35.52benJImankicker likes shifting them round the screen, especially with twinview
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20:36.41idPi will try things maybe i will finally rreach something
20:36.48idPanother qs for developers though
20:36.54PhilRodbenJIman: well, they kind of will be in KDE 4 (plasma and all that)
20:37.05idPi know that kde developeent is baed on QT
20:37.17benJImanPhilRod: yeah should be good
20:37.24Sho_idP: "Qt" (so not to confuse it with Apple QuickTime), but yeah
20:37.25benJImanidP: right
20:38.17idPok i know that gnome now has this technology for fonts and lines called cairo
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20:38.32cenuijbenJIman im quite sure many people, like myself, never use desktop icons anymore
20:38.36Sho_idP: Cairo is actually a vector graphics rendering library that is not part of the Gnome project
20:38.39idPit makes curved line smooth , is this availble with QT
20:38.44cenuiji cant remember the last time i did
20:38.50benJImancenuij: indeed, they're not particularly useful
20:38.55Sho_idP: Qt4 has a competing technology called Arthur
20:39.03Sho_idP: But nothing stops someone from using cairo in a KDE application
20:39.20benJImancairo is slow as hell
20:39.22idPI liked cairo it makes things loks cool
20:39.38Sho_idP: Making things look cool is on our agenda for the future :)
20:39.56Sho_And anti-aliased vector graphics are a part of that.
20:40.01benJImannot that you can't make things look cool in kde 3.x
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20:40.16idPok i need ur opinion on this too, i noticed that kde is crowded with stuff..
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20:41.20idPi mean u open Konqurer or kde- control panel, u find lots of things
20:41.25cenuijah yes
20:41.32cenuijoptions, choice, freedom, power
20:41.39idPfor a newbie like me, it will take ages to find what i am looking for
20:41.42cenuijits a beatiful thing
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20:41.54benJImanidP: the control panel is searchable
20:41.57Sho_idP: KDE 3.5 has an improved search function in the KDE Control Panel to make you find things easier
20:42.06HamishTPBidP: I think it is busy looking but very well laid out and easy to navigate
20:42.17HamishTPBcenuij: yes it is :)
20:42.26benJImanidP: some distributors have simpler default configurations
20:42.48idPi know this gives one freedom to manipulate
20:43.11idPbut for ease the desktop esxperience sometimes one need categorizing
20:43.20HamishTPBlike benJIman says - there is a search facility and you can always ask here as well :D
20:43.31HamishTPBidP: it should all be categorised O_o
20:43.41idPlike this goes here this goes there and advanced ppl can digg there
20:43.42HamishTPBidP: the control centre anyway
20:43.51PhilRodand you can help with the documentation so that others after you can find stuff
20:44.06Sho_idP: There's certainly a continued effort to make things easier to discover and streamline the UI. KDE 3.5 represents a good amount of progress in that direction.
20:44.06idPthisd is what i do
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20:44.10HamishTPBidP: and the file system, on most installations, follows the unix standard
20:44.11*** join/#kde dsafda (
20:44.12idPwhen I encounter a problem
20:44.16idPand solve it
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20:44.50PhilRodidP: cool - for kde, you can send changes to the documentation to
20:44.52idPI write down how i solved it
20:45.20idPi know i already asked alot
20:45.22idPbut one last qs
20:45.45idPwill c# be ported to QT environment ?
20:46.08Sho_idP: I believe someone has already developed experimental C# bindings for Qt, yes
20:46.22benJImanSho_: i've not seen any progress on them since 2003ish
20:46.37Sho_benJIman: Not following it, admittedly
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20:46.50Q-collectivegah, kaffeine isn't network transparent? :( I tried to open a url with kaffeine and got "you can only select local files"
20:47.00benJImanQ-collective: xine isn't unfortunately
20:47.03idPit will be a  strategic choice to do so,
20:47.05benJImanand kaffeine is a frontend to xine
20:47.07Sho_Q-collective: I enjoy KMPlayer quite a bit
20:47.07idPI guess..
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20:47.29PhilRodidP: if you're interested in helping with the Qt C# bindings, we can probably find the person you need to talk to
20:47.36Sho_idP: The chances for Java support look better
20:47.41Q-collectivebenJIman: I see
20:47.44Q-collectivebah :(
20:47.52benJImanc# bindings would be very nice
20:48.11benJImanSho_: free java implementations are less far along than mono unfortunately
20:48.24Q-collectiveSho_: I find kmplayer very clumsy, it's barely working right at any given time
20:48.35idPsho, i wish i could.. the reason i ask, I study c# and will take cources on it.. so i like to use it with kde evelopement
20:48.46Sho_Q-collective: Curious
20:49.14idPok cool
20:49.27idPthanks all
20:49.31idPsee u
20:49.41Sho_bye idP
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20:50.49benJImanis a bit frustrating that can't use java or c# for Qt/kde development
20:51.36Sho_benJIman: Well, official Java bindings have been announced
20:51.50benJImanyeah that's nice
20:52.53Sho_Although they also announced intentions to release a tech preview in Q1/2006 ... not much longer to go ;)
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20:53.36benJImanusing java to write free software doesn't seem like a good idea though
20:54.21mainits great that u cant use too many languages for kde
20:54.31mainotherwise KDE would be a mess like gnome
20:54.36Sho_benJIman: Well I'd be a bit apprehensive of the legal situation around Mono as well, is my gut reaction without having looked into the matter more closely
20:55.20benJImanSho_: well mono is GPLed, the only potential problem I know of is that microsoft can charge a "reasonable and non-discriminatory fee" for use of the standard
20:57.06HamishTPBbenJIman to my mind that is Lawyer speak for "M$ can stick their oar in if they want to"
20:57.13Sho_Interestingly, Microsoft announced a version of WPF for Mac/Safari and Firefox at MIX, and claimed they would "actively support Linux and Solaris implementations"
20:57.47Sho_And their Mac port apparently includes a subset of the .NET CLR
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20:57.57Sho_benJIman: The Windows Presentation Foundation
20:58.00benJImanHamishTPB: bit difficult for them to suggest anything would be reasonable or non-discriminatory for free software, plus the EU and US competition people would have fun
20:58.14HamishTPBbenJIman fair point :)
20:58.31inukahey, what's the best email client with pop and imap for kde? i use kmail at the moment but wandering if there's a better one.. thanks
20:59.31Q-collectivewha? wpf working on linux?
20:59.48Q-collectivewhat are the guys at ms smoking?
20:59.51Q-collectiveI want some
21:00.03Sho_Q-collective: Well, it might have just been for the marketing, of course
21:00.16Sho_But they did show it running in Safari on Macs
21:01.08Q-collectivelike "we ship our next version of windows in 2003, oh no, 2005, no wait, 2007! Haha, got you, 2006. No wait, it's 2007 again"
21:01.11Q-collectivelove that
21:01.43PhilRodinuka: there are no other kde email clients that I know of
21:02.33Sho_benJIman: Basically they have developed a new set of platform/UI libraries and an XML dialect, XAML, to instanciate those classes, it's all based around sort of a document object model. In terms of capabilities it does rich 2D/3d graphics. Deployed in browsers, it looks like it's supposed to take on Flash/Shockwave.
21:02.55benJImanSho_: yeah I watched some of the presentations on it
21:03.23benJImanI doubt it's any more open than flash/shockwave though
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21:03.36congadoes anyone has this type of font?
21:03.44Sho_benJIman: And one of their primary goals seems to be to deploy it for a maximum audience, hence plug-ins for Firefox, Safari, etc.
21:04.31Q-collectivewe really need to have an opensource flash
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21:05.10HamishTPBconga: that looks familiar - I have a lot of fonts installed though to look through - are you trying to find the name?
21:05.18Sho_benJIman: Well it does seem poised to become the next primary UI API for Windows
21:06.01Q-collectiveSho_: msn was poised to take over the internet
21:06.06Sho_benJIman: I.e. they announced Windows.Forms wouldn't receive any new features and please look at XAML/Avalon/WPF/nameoftheweek from now on
21:06.20congaHamishTPB, yeah i'm trying to find the name of that font
21:06.33pwuertzthere is a opensource flash implementation called "gnash"
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21:06.50HamishTPBconga: hang on a few minutes and I will see what I can find - got over 1500 fonts here though so bear with me ;-)_
21:06.58pwuertzfar from complete.... but some stuff looks good already...
21:07.00congawow lol
21:07.03StevenRpwuertz: afaik gnash is actually free, not open
21:07.12pwuertzgnash is opensource
21:07.16lgsobalvarrohi StevenR
21:07.25lgsobalvarrohello canllaith
21:07.29StevenRhiya lgsobalvarro
21:07.30pwuertzdeveloped by the gnu guys
21:07.53cenuijthere was a wbsite that compared fonts in images toa  database of some 5k fonts, for the life of my i have no idea if it still exists though
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21:08.32StevenRpwuertz: no, gnash is not an opensource project. it is a free software project. free software and open source software are very different
21:08.32Q-collectiveversion 7 support, while the net is switching over to version 8
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21:08.38Sho_iirc there was quite a bit of controvery surrounding gnash
21:08.51Sho_GNU took public domain code and relicensed it under GPL or something
21:09.08pwuertzStevenR, i compiled it from source... its GNU.... so what do you want?
21:09.51StevenRpwuertz: you're misunderstanding the difference between free and open.
21:10.24Sho_StevenR: You're not making it very clear either
21:10.27pwuertzi dont think so
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21:10.48pwuertzyou actually dont tell us what you mean
21:11.48benJImanpwuertz: Free software guarantees certain freedoms that merely open source software may not grant
21:12.10pwuertzi wont read that huge article right now
21:12.19StevenRsome of microsofts code is open source if you pay for it...but it's not free-as-in-freedom in any way shape or form
21:12.29*** join/#kde JLP (n=JLP@
21:12.32Q-collectivemore info
21:12.39Q-collectiveon opensource vs free
21:12.40pwuertzfine... gnash is open and free
21:12.54HamishTPBconga: still looking - it is annoying me because it is *very* familiar
21:13.13congai like the font :(
21:13.17*** part/#kde JLP (n=JLP@
21:13.27HamishTPBconga: don't lose hope - I am still looking :)
21:13.33StevenRPhilRod: not really...they're very different things :)
21:13.50Sho_conga: That's likely Myriad
21:14.04HamishTPBSho_: a clue! :)
21:14.23HamishTPBI don't have one called myriad though
21:14.29Q-collectiveStevenR: a lot of opensource code is free code though, so that might explain the confusion
21:14.35PhilRodStevenR: the concepts are different, the software itself isn't :-)
21:14.39Sho_but a variant
21:14.42Sho_bah, I had that font once, too
21:14.53StevenRSho_: nothing wrong with taking public domain code if it works
21:15.06HamishTPBthe font looks like something I used in my Atari days
21:15.18maincan public domain code be GPLd ?
21:15.46HamishTPBin fact I just remembered where I seen it - I did use it on my desktop on my TT
21:15.56HamishTPBif only I can remember the damned name :S
21:16.12HamishTPBthought I had it
21:16.16HamishTPBVAG Rounded
21:16.22StevenRmain: yes, but it's kindof an odd issue...if I take some PD code and release it under the GPL, you could still just go get the PD code if you wanted to not be bound by the GPL
21:16.23HamishTPBbut that is not it
21:16.28Blissexmain: thats not really a question for this group.
21:16.45Sho_HamishTPB: <- looks like the same, right?
21:16.51congaSho_, do you have that font?
21:16.51maini asked, because it came up in this room
21:17.09Sho_conga: I did, since I made that GIF once ;)
21:17.10HamishTPBSho_: very similar - they are both sort of Star Trek like
21:17.20congaSho_, can you send me the font ?
21:17.21PhilRodBlissex: it seems to be off-topic hour at the moment, so I wouldn't worry about it :-)
21:17.25Sho_HamishTPB: That's the bold type I think
21:17.29HamishTPBSho_: ah
21:17.33Sho_conga: Unfortunately I may not have it any more
21:17.38HamishTPBSho_: that is Myriad?
21:17.44Sho_HamishTPB: Nah
21:17.45HamishTPBSho_: cos I don't recall that name
21:17.48HamishTPBSho_: ah
21:17.49BlissexPhilRod: yes, I am also lax about off topic in non intense moments, but thats a dangerous question too...
21:17.57HamishTPBI am on a quest now
21:18.09Blissexmain: however, IANAL but I have an opinion on the matter.
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21:19.38congaHamishTPB: kekee
21:19.42HamishTPBmain: I am not a lawyer
21:19.54mainooh, ok
21:20.11*** join/#kde IceD^^ (n=iced@
21:21.08Blissexmain: strictly speaking public domain is a complete absence of copyright. the GPL is copyright, so some code cannot be under both at the same time. However PD code and GPL code can be mixed, because PD code having no restrictions has no greater restrictions than GPL.
21:21.45Blissexmain: however lessig thinks that with current legislation there is _no_ public domain code in the USA nowadays.
21:22.10mainlessiq ?
21:22.13mainwho is that
21:22.20benJImanyou can specifically declare something as public domain if you want
21:22.22Sho_lawrence lessig
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21:23.41Sho_HamishTPB: I have a hunch now the name started with S, FWIW ;)
21:24.19HamishTPBconga: sorry but I can't see the one I am looking for - I can send you a font archive file with most of my fonts from my last backup - if nothing else it will give you something to look through :)
21:24.30HamishTPBSho_: LOL - I was looking around S for a while...
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21:24.39congacan you send me :D
21:24.42HamishTPByou got a fairly fast connection?
21:24.55HamishTPBI can upload about 70k/sec
21:25.09HamishTPBgimme a min
21:25.12HamishTPBwill find the archive
21:25.14congacool :)
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21:28.30sykeI'm getting a compile error when building arts from the 3.5 branch
21:28.30sykeif /bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../.. -I../../mcop -I../../artsc -I../../flow -I../../flow -I../../mcop -I../../mcop -I../.. -I/home/matt/include -I/usr/qt/3/include -I.  -I../../libltdl  -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT  -D_REENTRANT -pthread -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib64/glib-2.0/include   -std=iso9899:1990 -Wall -Wchar-subscripts -Wpointer-arith -Wmissing-prototypes -Wwrite-strings -D_XOPEN_S
21:28.30sykethen mv -f ".deps/gslcommon.Tpo" ".deps/gslcommon.Plo"; else rm -f ".deps/gslcommon.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
21:28.31sykegslcommon.c:63: warning: type qualifiers ignored on function return type
21:28.32sykegslcommon.c:63: error: conflicting types for 'gsl_alloc_upper_power2'
21:28.34sykegslcommon.h:244: error: previous declaration of 'gsl_alloc_upper_power2' was here
21:28.36sykegslcommon.c:63: error: conflicting types for 'gsl_alloc_upper_power2'
21:28.38sykegslcommon.h:244: error: previous declaration of 'gsl_alloc_upper_power2' was here
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21:29.00mainwhy are some letters messed up in konqi?
21:29.12mainno matter what fonts i select, W, V, N come up slightly weird
21:29.18mainlike bold or smth
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21:29.58Sho_pinotree: the topic is pointy?
21:30.11pinotreeSho_: -.-
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21:30.52HamishTPBconga: that should keep you busy for a while :) About 1450 fonts in that archive iirc
21:31.37congawow that big
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21:31.58congayou're awesome HamishTPB :)
21:32.21HamishTPBconga: I wouldn't say that - I am just a font junkie :)
21:32.32HamishTPBadded about 100 more since that lot
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21:33.54Sho_ha, got it
21:33.58Sho_conga: The font is called "Slider"
21:34.24HamishTPBSho_: O_O
21:34.25mainhere, check it out
21:34.32HamishTPBSho_: you sure? :)
21:35.04Sho_HamishTPB: I found an old ZIP archive with an old Xara 3D file in which I used the font, and it specifies Slider
21:35.33HamishTPBSho_: that is not the name I remember - so mine was probably not exactly the same one
21:35.46HamishTPBSho_: for some reason I think of Atari or Star Trek when I see it
21:36.07Sho_HamishTPB: How fitting that i used it in a Trekkie file
21:36.25HamishTPBSho_ / conga FYI - there is not a font called slider in that archive :P
21:36.44HamishTPBconga: that would be too easy
21:36.50congai almost type my root password in the channel
21:36.57HamishTPBdamn universe messing with our heads O_o
21:37.05Sho_conga, HamishTPB:
21:37.35HamishTPBSho_: thanks :)
21:37.58Sho_You gotta love #kde ;)
21:38.16HamishTPBSho_: hell yeah :)
21:38.33cbrhei.. does the kaffeine-mozilla thing launch an embedded player?
21:38.51congaIs that the font HamishTPB ?
21:38.57congai can't view it yet
21:39.02HamishTPBoh I dunno
21:39.06HamishTPBhang on - will install
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21:39.30congathanks Sho_ :)
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21:40.17Sho_conga: np, hope it's the right one for you
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21:41.06congathat the font :D
21:41.07HamishTPBSho_: not the same one :S
21:41.12congayay, thank you Sho_ :)
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21:41.19congait is haakonn
21:41.22Sho_HamishTPB: I notice the k is a little different
21:41.28Sho_HamishTPB: Overall it's very very close though
21:41.34HamishTPBSho_: the capital A looks totally different
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21:41.47congai haven't notice that
21:41.55HamishTPBSho_ / conga fonts are weird and wonderful :)
21:42.28Sho_HamishTPB: Actually I don't think it looks very different
21:42.35Sho_The capital A I mean
21:42.42Sho_May depend on your hinting settings, of course
21:42.56HamishTPBSho_: just looking at the original screenie again - looked at so many fonts in the last 30 mins I am goggle-eyed :)
21:43.29HamishTPBlol - yeah Sho_ I was mixing up something else :S
21:43.49Sho_the small k is definitely different though
21:43.52HamishTPBSho_ / conga I think that is a very good match, if not the actual font
21:44.15congai happy with the font, thanks :)
21:44.29HamishTPBif I ever find the exact one I will let you know
21:44.34*** part/#kde xororand (i=gpbael@unaffiliated/xororand)
21:44.37Sho_the A:
21:44.37HamishTPBand have fun with the archive too :D
21:44.39main2can i change kde's splash-screen backgroup?
21:44.54main2im currently using the slider
21:45.13main2it enjoys me, but the grey background produces too much light in my eyes
21:45.24HamishTPBmain2: in control-centre>Appearance and Themes>Splash Screen
21:45.30main2im there..
21:45.34main2and then?
21:45.41HamishTPBpick a screen
21:45.49main2i wanne change the background image/color of the slider..
21:46.06Sho_main: You'll have to modify the images the splash is made out of
21:46.09main2the background of the 'simple splash screen'
21:46.19benJImando you mean the background colour of the screen or something else?
21:46.21main2Sho_, where can i find these
21:46.21benJImanwhat do you mean by slider?
21:46.25main2the background of the 'simple splash screen'
21:46.27HamishTPBmain2: you lost me with "slider"
21:46.32Sho_benJIman: button bar I guess
21:46.34benJImanmain: which background do you mean?
21:46.37Sho_benJIman: or the progress bar perhaps ...
21:46.46main2simple splash screen -> the progress bar jes
21:46.47Sho_benJIman: s/button bar/icon bar/
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21:46.51benJImanto change the background colour or wallpaper type thing you need to modify the startkde script I think
21:46.52congaHamishTPB, it loooks a bit different :D
21:47.04benJImanxsetroot -solid "#C0C0C0" is in there by default here
21:47.07mainim confused
21:47.10HamishTPBmain2: ah - I think the progress bar colour is part of the Splash Screen colour theme?
21:47.14mainmain2 isnt the same person as me
21:47.23benJImanmain2: whatdo you mean by slider?
21:47.26main2benJIman, where did you find that one?
21:47.28Sho_confusion ensues
21:47.36benJImanmain2: startkde script
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21:47.48main2i dunno where that things is...
21:47.53main2whereis startkde...
21:48.04HamishTPBconga: yes but it is quite close - I *will* find it !! It will drive me mad if I don't... :D
21:48.28Sho_There are essentially three possibilities: (a) He means the background surrounding the splash, (b) He means the background of the progress icon area in the splash screen, (c) he means the background of the progress bar widget in the splash screen
21:48.29HamishTPBconga: maybe not tonight though ;-)
21:48.30PhilRodgah, I just spent an hour trying to get emacs to work, and now I've got it working, I've forgotten what I wanted to add to the FAQ
21:48.40HamishTPBPhilRod: :S
21:48.43Sho_(a) is defined by what benJIman is coming up with, (b) is the pixmaps of the splash, (c) is the GUI widget color scheme
21:48.53conga3 more minutes :D
21:48.58main2i set it to 00000
21:49.28main2black is 00000 right
21:49.35HamishTPBPhilRod: I have done that before - taken ages to set up an app then forgotten what I was setting it up for :/
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21:50.40Sho_PhilRod: Use vim. *runs*
21:50.44Sho_SCNR :)
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21:52.25HamishTPBconga: have fun :D
21:52.36congayeah, thanks :)
21:53.06main2thnx for helping me out guys :)
21:53.30congawill it crash X if i put all of them in HamishTPB ? :D
21:53.37HamishTPBconga: there may be some older versions of stuff like "m$ core fonts" and the like - generally keep what you have installed already if there is a name conflict - unless there is a huge size difference - in which case the larger font is probably the unicode version
21:53.37*** part/#kde pef (n=Loic@ubuntu/member/pef)
21:53.45main2especially benJIman
21:53.51main2who came up with the solution :)
21:54.03HamishTPBconga: I have over 1500 installed via the KDE font installer so I would say you are safe :)
21:54.28BlissexHamishTPB: thats a very very bad idea for efficiency.
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21:54.54HamishTPBBlissex: I haven't noticed any problems TBH
21:55.03HamishTPBBlissex: but I would have thought so to be honest :)
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21:55.24congaHamishTPB, what program you use to view those fonts?
21:55.32HamishTPBBlissex: I hoard them all - I could clear out loads if I was brutal :)
21:55.52BlissexHamishTPB: well, KDE does something to avoid problems with large numbers of fonts, by sharing font tables etc. where possible, but it is still not good.
21:56.11HamishTPBconga: I just use the KDE font installer or if I want to look at a specific font I load it in the KDE font viewer
21:57.07HamishTPBBlissex: if a font is not it use by any running app will it really matter except when I am in a font selection dialogue? If it makes a big difference to anything I probably will tidy them up
21:57.52HamishTPBSho_: the KDE Font installer in the control panel is not too bad - could do with more features but it works ok
21:58.00benJImanyoucan also install fonts with fonts:?
21:58.02BlissexHamishTPB: it does matter a bit, or more than a bit, depending on circumstances. If there was a font server like for X it would be OK, but KDE uses Xft2, and that loads a table of all fonts in each process.
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21:58.10congaSho_: yeah me too
21:58.12BlissexSho_: me too...
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21:58.30benJImanyou can also easily filter with for example "fonts:/System/*bold*"
21:58.31congaSho_ write one :P
21:58.33A10ndoes anyone here how to open multiple kate programs?
21:58.34Sho_HamishTPB: What I'm really looking for is the ability to tag/group fonts and load/unload groups, as well as more sophisticated preview facilities
21:58.40BlissexSho_: for example even the font selection dialog is pretty annoying, does not allow selecting fonts by foundry for example.
21:58.56Sho_HamishTPB: Essentially what the good 'ol Adobe Type Manager did, or that nice Linotype app for OS X
21:59.30Sho_Blissex: yah
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21:59.50HamishTPBSho_: yeah being able to group fonts by family and stuff would be nice
22:00.01HamishTPBsorry - in other channels too so not keeping up :)
22:00.06BlissexSho_: even worse it won't let me select whether I want a font from X11 or Fontconfig...
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22:00.38Blissexbut the really big problem is that the whole font situation under GNU/Linux/X is hopelessly fucked.
22:01.02Blissexand again fortunately KDE has some countermeasures...
22:01.12HamishTPBBlissex: it is better than it was a few years ago IMO - largely due to KDE
22:01.31*** join/#kde gresco (n=gresco@
22:01.55BlissexHamishTPB: it is better _in KDE_. And not due to KDE. KDE's font situation is a bit better because of workarounds, not solutions, to the font problems.
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22:02.19HamishTPBBlissex: well - ok - fair enough
22:03.20HamishTPBBlissex: I haven't looked (and I can't atm because of several conversations cross-channel/cross-network) but do have a stance on fonts?
22:03.23BlissexBTW I have a (draft) page in which I try to explain the horror of the situation:
22:03.51BlissexHamishTPB: the position seems to be ''worse is better'' :-)
22:04.14*** join/#kde jesusfish (
22:04.24congalet me restart x
22:04.36BlissexHamishTPB: dont laugh. Very responsibly and nicely KDE devels try to work with even when it makes them shake their heads...
22:04.49Sho_HamishTPB: by which he refers to
22:05.03HamishTPBit actually is called that!
22:05.22HamishTPBhang on - will get back to this in a few mins - will finish some other chats first :)
22:06.20*** join/#kde AssociateX (
22:06.40*** join/#kde anisX (n=anisX@unaffiliated/bietch)
22:07.00benJImanooh you can now mount things like fonts:/ on a directory from within konqueror
22:07.22*** join/#kde simian__ (
22:07.42Sho_benJIman: kio_fuse
22:07.45HamishTPBbenJIman: huh - I didn't know that
22:07.47Sho_benJIman: Thought it was dead
22:07.55benJImanyeah, I hadn't seen the integration with konqueror though
22:07.56Sho_benJIman: And that's not shipped with vanilla KDE btw
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22:08.14Blissexhoewever as to fonts at least Fredesktop .org got the Vera fonts developed, and that was very much needed.
22:08.32Sho_Blissex: although they do seem to be badly hinted
22:08.41Cilindradorive installed ubuntu and then kubuntu-desktop. how can i update Breezy all the way to 3.5.1?
22:08.41BlissexSho_: they aren't hinted.
22:08.48Sho_Blissex: q.e.d ;)
22:08.56benJImanBlissex: yeah they look rather bad compared to microsoft fonts
22:08.58Cilindradorwhat url do i need to add to the repos to make this work?
22:09.14PhilRodCilindrador: best to ask in #kubuntu
22:09.18BlissexSho_: sometimes I think we/KDE/... should do a collection and pay some starving font guy in some developing country to add hints to a few common freeware fonts.
22:09.25Cilindradorok tks
22:09.26Cilindradori will
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22:10.00benJImanBlissex: there are patent issues with the BCI though
22:10.08Sho_Blissex: Don't underestimate the effort
22:10.26BlissexSho_: it could costhow much? $100,000?
22:10.26HamishTPBBlissex / Sho_ I don't know about rendering fonts but I am sure it would be a good excercise to try building a font manager - I am trying to learn KDE (Qt) programming
22:10.56Sho_Blissex: Much more. Microsoft Typography spent millions in the two-digit range on the new font package for Vista.
22:10.58BlissexSho_: the problem with the MS web fonts is the irritanting licence.
22:11.08HamishTPBBlissex / Sho_ assuming that it would just involve reading a header for info anyway
22:11.55Sho_Blissex: Verdana or Tahoma probably contain tens of thousands of lines of hinting code
22:11.55HamishTPBSho_: wow - Verdana is one of the few m$ fonts I actually like
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22:12.00BlissexSho_: but you can trick that. By supplying hand made bitmaps at the right font sizes.
22:12.23BlissexSho_: in any case tens of thousands of lines is nothing to be afraid of nowadays.
22:12.27Sho_HamishTPB: I thought along the same lines once, but got so scared by the font stack cruft that I gave up
22:12.36Sho_HamishTPB: The KDE/Qt UI is the easy part
22:12.52BlissexSho_: in part it is also the patent issues, but also the lack of availability of good TTF editors.
22:12.56HamishTPBBlissex: hehe - Old school the way it used to be. Did anyone here ever use TOS/GEM on the Atari - fonts were hours, days, weeks, months.. of fun
22:13.21BlissexSho_: but there is another solution, to use Type1 fonts and spend more time tuning the autohinter.
22:13.37BlissexSho_: for example there is a little known detail about Type1 fonts....
22:13.53Sho_Blissex: I think the best solution would be a machine that manages to make 300 dpi OLED display panels out of kitchen garbage
22:14.03Sho_Blissex: If everyone had one, the autohinter would be OK
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22:14.36Sho_But actually it is getting easier as display resolutions rize
22:14.37HamishTPBSho_: not at the moment - I am old school - building some tutorial apps in Kdevelop was my first attempt at "modern" programming
22:14.46BlissexSho_: the 'type1' rasterizer in X is not awesome, but the 'freetype' rasterizer can do both Type1 and TTF fonts, and does pretty well on the Type1 fonts. And Type1 fonts are far more common and more open than TTF.
22:15.14BlissexSho_: and yes, I'd like to have one of 200DPI and more displays that some companies make.
22:15.15Sho_Blissex: I do have quite a few Type1 fonts, yap
22:15.25HamishTPBSho_ / Blissex - perhaps a "standard" would be better than trying to wrangle lots of formats. You know as soon as I typed that last bit I seen the flaws :P
22:15.29benJImanSho_: consumer display resolutions havn't increased in 10 years
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22:15.39Sho_benJIman: Not true, actually
22:15.52Sho_benJIman: Many laptop screens are beyond the good ol' 90 dpi
22:15.55BlissexbenJIman: not quite true -- laptops have it different. Easy to find 130 DPI laptops.
22:16.00benJImanmy current monitor does about 120-150dpi , you could buy a monitor in 1995 that did that
22:16.02Sho_yap, see Blissex
22:16.04BlissexbenJIman: the problem is commercial.
22:16.21Sho_benJIman: But not in the consumer class
22:16.37benJImanSho_: yes, CRTs then were about that res
22:16.40benJImanCRTs still are
22:16.43benJImannothing has improved
22:16.43BlissexbenJIman: because MS Windows has non scalable fonts still and non scalable icons, low DPI is sold as an _advantage_.
22:17.15BlissexbenJIman: many people think higher than 75DPI makes the screen unreadable. Thank you MS...
22:17.32Sho_Blissex: Well, they do have a two-mode scale ... "Small fonts" and "Large fonts" is the selection IIRC ;)
22:17.35benJImanvista has SVG icons
22:17.42anisXwhat is AMOR ? on screen creature ?
22:17.47Blissexthats why BTW 19" LCDs are overwhelmingly 1280x1024 like 17" ones.
22:17.50Sho_benJIman: Probably XAML icons really ;)
22:17.51*** join/#kde a_thing (n=notroot@
22:18.03HamishTPBBlissex: yeah - last time I used a windows system I tried to scale it better and half the apps went to fook
22:18.32benJImanmost windows apps assume 96dpi
22:18.34Sho_HamishTPB: Well, KDE doesn't do much better in terms of resolution independence
22:18.35HamishTPBanisX: Amusing Misuse Of Resources - yes - just a silly toy
22:18.36benJImanI think khtml does too
22:18.44Sho_The only UI that has some sort of support for that is OS Xs
22:19.00HamishTPBSho_: not really played with it much, which is odd for me :)
22:19.13BlissexHamishTPB: ahhh but thats not quite right either, because there are little known MS Windows setting that allow people to scale a bit better than usual. But they are little known. The defaults are all that matter for most people (why is IE so popular? because it is the default)
22:19.32BlissexSho_: and NeWS of course :-)
22:19.52Sho_Blissex: And Fresco, and, and, and - yes ;9
22:19.54HamishTPBBlissex: but when I set to an accurate dpi for my screen and res lots of apps didn't scale/redraw properly in win
22:20.17HamishTPBBlissex: and yes - laziness and acceptance of "default" is a huge problem :(
22:20.19BlissexHamishTPB: yes, thats not too good, too many use bitmaps for everything.
22:20.29marobenJIman: that requires root privs :)
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22:20.40HamishTPBBlissex: ah - I never played around enough to see what the problem was
22:20.43*** join/#kde Bread (
22:20.55benJImanmaroowhat does?
22:21.11marobenJIman: mounting loopback devices
22:21.19benJImanmaro: no not with FUSE
22:21.42benJImanhence Filesystems in User space
22:21.49marobenJIman: still, I think this could be accomplished on the application level, no?
22:21.52Sho_benJIman: root is in userpace, too ;-)
22:22.00maro(like gnome's archiver)
22:22.00benJImanwell kio_fuse doesn't need root
22:22.08benJImanmaro: how do you mean?
22:22.09*** join/#kde Brodalco (
22:22.16marobrowsing an iso
22:22.19Brodalcowhassup, homedawgs?
22:22.23*** join/#kde tty56 (n=johannes@2001:6f8:1331:3:bd1a:494:9473:4e69)
22:23.11Brodalcowho's Cleveland Browns?
22:23.23HamishTPBNFL football team in the USA
22:23.27HamishTPBbut nm
22:23.34anisXHamishTPB: aha thanx , i love this amor ;p
22:23.34HamishTPBI am not from the USA - I just like them
22:23.35Brodalcoc'mon, this is a LINUX chatroom
22:23.44HamishTPBanisX: it is a great way to mess about :)
22:23.44Brodalcoare a bunch of linux geeks going ot know about football?
22:23.45Sho_maro: Well a user of FUSE is an application basically
22:23.52Brodalcoi'm from the US
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22:24.00anisXHamishTPB: i choose tux now ;p
22:24.10HamishTPBBrodalco: yes but the Dawg thing is CLE related - end of, is off topic as you say :)
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22:24.26maroSho_: sure
22:24.31benJImanBrodalco: it's not even football, it's some american game which they call football despite not using their feet and the ball
22:24.39marobut fuse is also linux-only, at least to my knowledge :)
22:24.50maroand we're talking about reading a file
22:24.51benJImanmaro: kioslaves are platform independant though
22:25.05HamishTPBbenJIman - the punter and kicker use their feet (and of off-topic, honest)
22:25.14benJImankio_fuse just lets non-kde linux apps use the kioslaves
22:25.15Sho_maro: Ah yes ... the burden of BSD compatibility ;-)
22:25.18marobenJIman: what kioslave are you thinking of? :)
22:25.28benJImanwhat were you thinking of?
22:25.37benJImanyou brought up isos, I didn't mention anything about them
22:26.04Brodalcoi just wanted to ask a random question... would there be any point in running KDE on mac?  it works well enough on Linux, but i fail to see why people like to run it on mac so much
22:26.35Sho_maro: We were talking about kio_fuse, a FUSE module that can mount kioslaves. No ISOs involved yet ;-)
22:26.37HamishTPBBrodalco: I guess some people don't like OSX? I don't know any performance comparisons
22:26.45marobenJIman: hehe, it's many hours ago :)
22:27.15maro17:17 < benJIman> maro: mount -o loop ./file.iso /mnt
22:27.20maro(I'm in CEST)
22:27.31Sho_Brodalco: I simply like Apples machines. I have an iBook dual-booting OS X and Kubuntu.
22:27.52benJImanmaro: ah you were referring to that, that was a long time ago
22:28.00Sho_Brodalco: At the time I bought it, there was no 12" laptop of comparable quality in the PC space
22:28.02marobenJIman: yeah, sorry :)
22:28.19benJImanyeah I don't think there is a kioslave for browsing isos
22:28.20Sho_(and there probably still isn't)
22:28.43benJImanSho_: the thinkpad X series not small enough for you?
22:28.46marooh well, thanks for the help anyway :)
22:28.47HamishTPBSho_: Apple make excellent screens
22:29.03Sho_benJIman: It's about quality, not size. The Thinkpads are out of the question due to their lack of internal optical drives.
22:29.07Tm_TSho_: yeah, 12" mac lappy could be perfect to me
22:29.12Sho_HamishTPB: Actually the display is the worst about the iBook
22:29.13HamishTPBSho_: my old mactop (which mostly gathers dust these days) looks brilliant still
22:29.17benJImanSho_: the dock has an internal optical drive
22:29.17Sho_but it's ok enough
22:29.23HamishTPBSho_: I have a very old mactop :)
22:29.28benJImanand without the dock they're tiny
22:29.44benJImaneven with the dock they're only normal laptop size
22:29.48benJImanif not smaller
22:30.01Sho_benJIman: i don't want to frill with a dock, I want a self-contained unit. I hate nothing more than carrying around a number of peripherals to get functionality I feel is essential.
22:30.11Sho_benJIman: Hence, the 12" iBook really floats my boat ;-)
22:30.16maromy X23 have survived 3 years of abuse pretty well :)
22:30.19wasynyt-asleepwhat about the price? ibook goes for ~1000
22:30.48Sho_yeah, the Thinkpads aren't exactly on the cheap side either
22:31.02benJImancan get x31 for arround £400 now
22:31.07benJImanwhich are pretty fast
22:32.02marowow, the new X60 looks sweet
22:32.25maroIntel Core Duo 1,66GHz - it's almost a Mac! ;)
22:32.46Sho_without the optical drive *trolls* ;)
22:33.12EvilGuruare the any ways to tell kicker never under any circumstances to group windows from a certain application?
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22:33.30Sho_Looks like Apple will introduce some new Intel-based iBooks rather soon on their 30th birthday.
22:34.54wasynyt-asleepwhen will it be (birtday)
22:35.07Cilindradorthose guys keep introducing stuff every other damn week
22:35.17Sho_wasynyt-asleep: April 1st I think (yeah, strange date)
22:35.20*** join/#kde positivo (n=positivo@
22:35.21Cilindradorthat are never >that< new
22:37.18HamishTPBmac-talk seems to have killed the channel :)
22:38.48Sho_HamishTPB: they all browsed to the macbook pro page and are now wondering where to get the money
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22:39.28HamishTPBSho_: lol
22:41.35pulsar84Hi. Anyone here using superkaramba?
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22:44.14HamishTPBSho_: I might as well read that webpage from earlier now then - see Blissex's take on things...
22:44.38Sho_HamishTPB: yap ..
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22:59.12ryanoeAnyone in here have problems installing the webmin RPM via yum in Fedora Core 4?
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22:59.24*** join/#kde crlouis (
22:59.50pinotreeryanoe: bad channel here, ask in #fedora
23:00.50crlouisvery newbie escaping windows environment
23:02.08crlouiscan any one help me how to configure eth0 as static?
23:02.39StevenRcrlouis: ask in your distro's channel, that's not kde related really :)
23:02.47HamishTPBcrlouis: the best place to ask that is in a channel where others use the same distro (e.g. #gentoo, #ubuntu etc)
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23:04.50crlouisstupid question how do i hop on #knoppix from here?
23:05.06HamishTPBBlissex: reading your article atm - but I am still not clear on one thing - does having a lot of fonts in the system at all cause any performance hit? I use a lot of fonts for DTP projects (I usually stick to something like your guidelines for screen fonts and only have one or two for that)
23:05.14HamishTPBcrlouis: /join #knoppix
23:05.16StevenRcrlouis: /join #knoppix
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23:05.34StevenRHamishTPB: SNAP!! I WIN :P
23:06.08HamishTPBBlissex: I don't mind slight slowdown in a font menu or whatever because I want the choice - but is having them on the system at all causing a problem?
23:06.13HamishTPBStevenR: Yeah :)
23:06.14fatejudgeris there a way to have one kicker panel transparent and the other one not?
23:06.15BlissexHamishTPB: there are three memory impacts...
23:06.36BlissexHamishTPB: 1) all configured fonts are listed in a single in memory table.
23:07.00BlissexHamishTPB: 2) fonts that get actually used in any way have their descriptors loaded too, never removed.
23:08.40BlissexHamishTPB: 3) rendered glyphs are cached, and the cache is per process and fixed size. Which means that if you _use_ lots of fonts they compete heavily for the font cache.
23:09.18BlissexHamishTPB: actually I suspect that at least in some versions of FontConfig/Xft2 all font descriptors are loaded at the start.
23:09.35HamishTPBso my main problem in "everyday" use is number 1 - for each font installed I am using xKB per font just to index the list somewhere?
23:09.59HamishTPBBlissex: and when I start using a font based app I get hit by 2 and 3
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23:10.15HamishTPBBlissex: e.g. Scribus
23:10.15BlissexHamishTPB: well, with KDE it is a bit different.
23:11.03*** join/#kde morexyz (
23:11.09morexyzhi, how does konqueror substitutes fonts?
23:11.13BlissexHamishTPB: in theory what I say above is _per process_. Each process has its own copy of all the font data: a completely copy of the font table, and then of the descriptor, and then of glyphs.
23:12.10HamishTPBBlissex: so the fact that I can choose any of my numerous fonts for e.g. my IRC client (kvirc) is adding to the memory use of the application?
23:12.38HokinonHi peeps how do I change the kdm login theme?
23:12.54BlissexHamishTPB: again for KDE it is a bit different. The default however is that each app loads a copy of the complete font table, etc.
23:13.19BlissexHamishTPB: the complete font table is the list of all fonts in all directories listed in '/etc/*.conf'
23:13.40HamishTPBBlissex: ok - so using KDE and Kapps a lot means I *am* adding that overhead?
23:13.48BlissexHamishTPB: KDE does things a bit differently (that is much better) if you use 'kdeinit' and 'kwrapper'
23:15.01*** join/#kde SkiffX (
23:16.40HamishTPBHokinon: in the control centre>System Administration>Login Manager
23:17.11Hokinonwhere do I put a theme I've downloaded?
23:17.34*** join/#kde dsafda (
23:17.51HamishTPBI would have thought themes came with install instructions
23:18.02Hokinonhmm me too :/
23:18.32HamishTPBHokinon: I am afraid I have to pass on that
23:18.42*** join/#kde vicks (
23:18.47HamishTPBhang around though - there are smart people here too ;-)
23:18.59Hokinonnp I'll search the configs
23:19.51morexyzyou are talking about fonts too
23:20.02morexyzim having issue with rendering web pages:)
23:20.24*** part/#kde Brodalco (
23:20.32morexyzi have installed microsoft fonts, and configured to use them, but this does not help
23:21.33HamishTPBmorexyz: you need to be more specific as to what the problem is
23:21.45morexyzill post a screenshot of konqueror
23:22.15*** join/#kde redguy (
23:22.31morexyzbut, this is configured to use Arial, hehe
23:22.35*** join/#kde boris64|alive (
23:22.52morexyzI dont seem to have a problem like that in Firefox
23:23.02morexyznot sure if this is machine-wide, or limited in scope to konqueror
23:23.41*** part/#kde DrIngo (
23:23.49HamishTPBjust trying it in my Konqueror to see
23:24.40HamishTPBnot much better - could be bad coding in the webpage / css - maybe the presume some odd font is available?
23:25.09HamishTPBI have to admit that firefox does often render more nicely than Konq
23:25.17morexyzbut this is an easy way out ;)
23:25.23HamishTPBI would not go back to the lack of features by comparison
23:25.26morexyzit looks pretty good on benJImans konq ;)
23:25.31HamishTPBmorexyz: I am all for easy ways out :P
23:25.47fatejudgerthe new KHTML renders better than Gecko IMO
23:25.49HamishTPBmorexyz: hang on and I will post a screenie of mine
23:25.58fatejudgerthey've made some HUGE improvements lately
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23:26.03fatejudgerin performance and rendering
23:26.19morexyzapple patches?
23:26.29fatejudgermorexyz: maybe for the rendering
23:26.30morexyzHamishTPB: check this out
23:26.33fatejudgermorexyz: but I doubt for the performance
23:26.47fatejudgermorexyz: I've been really happy with the direction they've been taking KHTML
23:27.10fatejudgerKDE is really shaping up to be a great DE, hopefully some great XGL related customization will come about soon
23:27.36HamishTPBmorexyz: was that benJIman's?
23:27.49morexyzhe posted that
23:28.13HamishTPBbenJIman - you around?
23:28.41HamishTPBbenJIman what font/encoding was that screenie on?
23:28.59benJImanthat's arial with no antialiasing, using the bytecode interpreter
23:29.14morexyzbenJIman: the conf u gave me
23:29.18morexyzwhere do i plug it into :) ?
23:29.29morexyzi tried replacing fonts.conf with it, that blew up my machine:)
23:29.39*** join/#kde mik_e (
23:29.40morexyzok, so some adjustments are neccesary then.
23:29.44HamishTPBbenJIman sorry to be thick but "bytecode interpreter"?
23:30.18Sho_HamishTPB: The code that interprets the hinting code in the TTF files
23:30.24benJImanHamishTPB: renders truetype fonts using the bytecode interpreter which reads the hints in the fonts, it has patent issues though, most distros disable it by default
23:30.25*** join/#kde simian__ (
23:30.50HamishTPBSho_ / benJIman - is a setting in xorg.conf then?
23:31.04benJImanwhat distro are you using HamishTPB ?
23:31.06*** part/#kde mik_e (
23:31.17Sho_HamishTPB: No, a compile time option in Freetype
23:31.20benJImanHamishTPB: if you took that screenshot it looks like you're using it allready
23:31.22HamishTPBSho_: ah
23:31.22Sho_HamishTPB: Actually you need to modify a header IIRC
23:31.36HamishTPBbenJIman the one at that is mine
23:31.37Sho_HamishTPB: They make it rather difficult to enable it due to the patent issues
23:31.49*** join/#kde positivo (
23:31.57morexyzur screenshot is pretty good, Hamish
23:31.59benJImanSho_: the novell legal people seem to think it's ok interestingly
23:31.59morexyzcompared to mine, hehe
23:32.00simian__is openoffice gtk2?
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23:32.10benJImanHamishTPB: it looks like you're allready using it, your screenshot is pretty good
23:32.16HamishTPBbenJIman OK
23:32.33fatejudgersimian__: I think OpenOffice uses GTK 1
23:32.45fatejudgersimian__: you don't use KOffice?
23:33.08benJImanspeaking of fonts, koffice has some real font issues
23:33.09HamishTPBin that case the only clue I have for morexyz is that I must have at one time set that option when I installed freetype :)
23:33.13morexyzbenJIman: could it be that i am missing a package?
23:33.15simian__i was thinking about, until recently i've been a gnome guy
23:33.17fatejudgerbenJIman: what??
23:33.18benJImankerning is terrible in koffice
23:33.29fatejudgerbenJIman: KOffice 1.5 Beta 2?
23:33.34benJImanmorexyz: I don't know why yours is breaking
23:33.38benJImanfatejudger: yes
23:33.44*** part/#kde positivo (
23:33.44fatejudgerbenJIman: it's working wonderfully for me
23:33.47fatejudgerbenJIman: Dapper?
23:33.56fatejudgerbenJIman: or some other distro's builds?
23:33.58benJImanit was the same in the last version of koffice
23:34.07benJImansomeone said it was a Qt3 issue
23:34.08simian__is koffice as good as openoffice?
23:34.12fatejudgerbenJIman: I have no fonts issues
23:34.17fatejudgersimian__: better IMO
23:34.25benJImanfatejudger: even in the output they're terrible
23:34.26fatejudgersimian__: it can do everything OpenOffice can and more
23:34.37fatejudgerbenJIman: there's something wrong with your build then
23:34.42fatejudgerbenJIman: because mine has no problems
23:34.45Sho_simian__: It doesn't have the same level of functionality, but it's faster, and better integrated with KDE
23:34.53benJImanfatejudger: perhaps you're not noticing it
23:35.03HamishTPBbenJIman could you post a screenie and I can test a similar phrase to test the kerning?
23:35.09*** join/#kde kronoz (
23:35.11fatejudgerbenJIman: noticing font problems?
23:35.16fatejudgerbenJIman: wouldn't that be completely clear?
23:35.25simian__fatejudger: Sho_ : indtalling it now
23:35.35fatejudgerSho_: it has far better functionality
23:35.41*** join/#kde hacosta (
23:36.01fatejudgerSho_: OOo doesn't even have a WYSIWYG equation editor
23:36.12morexyzit doesnt?
23:36.13benJImankoffice does many things nicer
23:36.14Sho_fatejudger: I disagree, but then I don't need much either
23:36.22benJImanand has a much nicer UI
23:36.31Sho_fatejudger: For the record, I'm very happy with KOffice
23:36.34benJImanbut doesn't do everything and has font issues
23:36.34fatejudgerbenJIman: agreed, the UI is far more functional
23:36.48fatejudgername one thing that OpenOffice does and KOffice doesn't
23:36.58HamishTPByeah - I got fed up of OOo and recently dumped it and I am trying KOffice at the moment - not that I use office apps that much.
23:37.09*** part/#kde redguy (
23:37.18fatejudgerOOo is really bloated
23:37.25fatejudgerand isn't modular, so it has to load a bunch of its own stuff
23:37.29fatejudgerwhich hogs up RAM
23:37.42morexyzi use msoffice under wine
23:37.46HamishTPBlast compile took me about a whole day
23:37.53fatejudgerapparently KOffice is about 1 million lines of code, and OpenOffice is 7 million
23:37.56HamishTPBmorexyz: stop swearing please! :P
23:38.00fatejudgerso quite a difference
23:38.07morexyzwhy is that swearing?
23:38.11morexyzi need production quality.
23:38.11fatejudgernot only that, KOffice has more programs in their Office suite
23:38.18HamishTPBmorexyz: was just a joke...
23:38.26morexyzi do presentations in front of many people, i need to look serious:)
23:38.52fatejudgermorexyz: MS Office is by far the most stable in the more unused feature department
23:39.12fatejudgermorexyz: equation editor and MS Access are still leaders in MS Office
23:39.23HamishTPBmorexyz: I personally don't find anything in msoffice better but as I said I don't use office apps that deeply so maybe there are features I am unaware of. I find the KOffice presentation app pretty good though
23:39.27morexyzyes, their equation editor is handy
23:39.35Sho_fatejudger: Table of Contents generation is much better in Writer than in KWord, for example
23:39.41simian__can koffice use msoffice formats?
23:39.47morexyzsomewhat, simian
23:39.50fatejudgersimian__: yes
23:39.51morexyzsimple stuff work ok
23:39.53fatejudgersimian__: it can read .doc
23:39.55Blissexfatejudger: MS Acces is not bad, but Kexi is not that bad either. But Amaya also has a very good MathML equation editor.
23:40.03fatejudgerKexi is great
23:40.09fatejudgerbut it doesn't have very good printable output
23:40.16fatejudgeras far as report generation goes
23:40.29HamishTPBbenJIman - can you supply some text to test the kerning problem you were describing?
23:40.55Sho_fatejudger: Mail merge is another
23:41.02Blissexfatejudger: well yes, MS Office is a more polished (and a lot, a lot faster) than most opensource alternatives.
23:41.17HamishTPBI have to admit on a quick test it is not great so far in KWord
23:41.18benJImanfatejudger: here is pdf output from oowriter and here is the same text output from kword spot the difference?
23:41.26fatejudgerBlissex: I wouldn't say it's faster
23:41.32fatejudgerBlissex: especially compared to KOffice
23:41.42fatejudgerBlissex: boot time and feature execution are about the same
23:41.42HamishTPBbenJIman yikes
23:41.45Blissexfatejudger: it is way, way faster and with a much smaller footprint.
23:42.26fatejudgerBlissex: KOffice is modular though, so it inherently has a small footprint
23:42.34fatejudgerbenJIman: yeah, I see it
23:42.40fatejudgerbenJIman: I don't output to PDF, so I must not have noticed
23:42.41simian__Blissex: small footprint, do you mean uses less memory?
23:42.49benJImanfatejudger: any print output is the same
23:42.50Blissexfatejudger: in theory, in practice it is still a lot, a lot bigger.
23:42.57Blissexsimian__: yes...
23:43.03benJImanfatejudger: I usually compose in kword and start oowriter to output
23:43.11Blissexfatejudger: wait a sec for some amusing numbers I collected.
23:43.13Sho_fatejudger: Now you're ignoring me? ;)
23:43.17fatejudgerBlissex: maybe now in QT 3
23:43.22fatejudgerSho_: no, sorry
23:43.28fatejudgerSho_: I just didn't see your message
23:43.34benJImanfatejudger: apparently the bug is in Qt3's postscript output
23:43.45benJImanfatejudger: scribus uses its own and doesn't suffer from the issue
23:43.56fatejudgerbenJIman: QT 4 is far more advanced
23:44.02fatejudgerbenJIman: as far as text and graphics output goes
23:44.06benJImanbut koffice isn't ported yet
23:44.10*** join/#kde rinzai_ (
23:44.11fatejudgerbenJIman: they shouldn't have any of these problems in the future
23:44.13fatejudgerbenJIman: yeah, I know
23:44.17benJImanbut the future is not now :(
23:44.23fatejudgerbenJIman: and KDE 4 is not due for awhile
23:44.36fatejudgerbenJIman: I can't stand how they have no information on it and no roadmap
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23:44.46fatejudgerbenJIman: all of this secrecy bugs me
23:44.53benJImanfatejudger: noone knows, it's not secrecy
23:45.04fatejudgerbenJIman: it IS secrecy
23:45.07fatejudgerbenJIman: the plasma people know
23:45.12benJImanfatejudger: when it's progressed to a stage where a roadmap can be predicted at all accurately there will be a roadmap
23:45.14fatejudgerbenJIman: as do most of the main coders
23:45.25HamishTPBfatejudger: I think keeping quiet when there is not a very full picture is better than letting imaginations run riot
23:45.37fatejudgerthey just don't want people copying the interface in KDE 3
23:45.39benJImanfatejudger: noone knows the roadmap
23:46.49*** join/#kde Steven_M (
23:47.28Steven_MIs anyone here runnng a 64-bit version of kde?
23:48.25Blissexfatejudger: lots of numbers and links on office apps: the referenced OOo test is also informative.
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23:49.13Blissexfatejudger: another interesting detail:
23:49.21simian__i don't suppose anyone knows of any problems at the moment with koffice in kubuntu dapper?
23:49.36fatejudgersimian__: use KOffice beta 2
23:49.38fatejudgersimian__: and you should be fine
23:49.47fatejudgersimian__: there's a repo on
23:49.49BlissexSteven_M: lots of people do, I just tried it yesterday with kanotix on my new Athlon 64
23:50.19simian__fatejudger: thanks
23:51.15fatejudgersimian__: np
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23:52.14Steven_MBlissex: do you have any problem with programs not appearing on the task bar?
23:52.31t35t0ris there a graphical udev setup application being worked on with kcontrol?
23:53.02BlissexSteven_M: I am currently running 32 bit, but it seemed OK at the time. Note that there are several taskbar options for choosing which ones appear or not.
23:55.04Blissext35t0r: 'udev' is still a bit unstable, and also I suspect it is part of a job-security-through-obscurity strategy.
23:55.27t35t0rjob security through obscurity?!!
23:55.30t35t0rare you kidding me
23:55.53t35t0rBlissex, are you a kde dev?
23:56.22Blissext35t0r: no, but let's say I am a developer in general. And one that stupidly does not practice that principle.
23:56.51t35t0rso you think you should be practicing that principple?
23:57.20Blissext35t0r: if I were not an idiot I should :-) Employers reward it very well.
23:58.00t35t0rhah ok .. whatever man i'm checking

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